Wings Over Scotland

prrrrrrrrrr prrrrrrrr prrrrrrrrrr

It’s ‘arse’ not ‘ass’. FFS!

think that’s my favourite yet – love it!

Brilliant Greg ta

Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

Watch it! You don’t want to get on Morag’s bad side.

link to bbc.co.uk We’re all fcuked now.

heedtracker

I fell off the seat, honestly.

Many a true word said in jest, and there are many true words there

O/t

SNP membership now 100,000

Hey, it’s my cartoon. You don’t like the word ‘ass’? Get your own cartoon.

If Michael Crichton were still alive, he could have written Jurassic Park IV: the English establishment.

O/T
time to bombard them with our wish lists
“Lord Smith has also asked members of the public to contribute their views on strengthening Holyrood’s powers before the deadline of 31 October, using the e-mail address haveyoursay@smith-commission.scot.”
Thats – haveyoursay@smith-commission.scot

Ahk its ok fur the big beastie Gogszilla tae appear the noo his pal Diddy Davie’s sent the RAF jets tae Cyprus so’s the Big Bens no his perch.

Well done Greg the cartoons lifted weary spirits.

Oh well, it is no Chris Cairns but I.Suppose it will do.

only been a couple of weeks,seems like years

link to dailynewsen.com
hot air, don’t forget non opted out TTIP?

I’m not sure that’s right about there being 100,000 SNP members – I think some new applications are being double-counted by over-enthusiastic twitter users. Peter Murrell’s most recent tweeted total is from yesterday and quotes 75,759. Which is still bloody amazing of course.

Another masterclass cartoon.

SNP student membership now 3,859

Big Gordy is a dinosaur. One step at a time from here on in, starting with and SNP vote in 2015. There is only 7 months left start persuading people now that this is the only way to go.

When you get knocked down? Then you get up again, no let up.

Women for Independence conference in Perth tomorrow is sold out. Hope they have arranged for a livestream or a video to upload.

The 100,000 membership was reported as being on Peter Murrells facebook page I do not do facebook so could not check it out, just took it at face value

Apologies if it’s wrong

I couldn’t find anything about membership numbers posted today on the SNP Facebook page, which is where I was told it was. Peter Murrell has a page of his own but as far as I can see he doesn’t use it.

I don’t do Facebook myself though so I may be missing something. (I still think the tweet was double-counting, wherever they got it from. 80,000 possibly, not 100,000.)

Nick: I won’t come in your mouth. Promise.

Willie: Erm, eh, well…

@BtP –

Not yet mister. Still some chauffeuring, then the quaffing…

Nothing on the proposals from the UK government?

‘Scots further tax plan released ‘within two weeks’’

“We are examining at the moment what more we can do to pass decisions to local areas, decisions around housing, planning, potentially local taxation as well.” – Osborne

Seems like an attempt to undermine Holyrood and restart the rise of council tax to me.

This is what we thought Labour would do if they got hold of Holyrood.

This isn’t going to be pretty.

Ian dear I need that car NOW.

@BtP –

I’ve got a wee kerry-oot ready, and an enormous bag of peanuts.

Intend to sit back and watch the 55% rise up and do their bit…if enough of them demand that their names be withdrawn from Brown’s ‘petition’ then the number of signatories may start to fall. That would be a first, surely?

Nick ‘The Guarantor’ Clegg’s first hit:

link to youtube.com

How long before we get the follow-up?

I think you’re double-counting that 25,000. From Peter Murrell’s tweets, the 75,000 includes the 25,000 that aren’t yet fully in the system.

From the dark depths of radioactive Dalgety bay it came. A gigantic, mutant reptile like no other, with evil lizard eyes, shiny white teeth and a mighty roar that shook the earth. It came to main and destroy the hopes and dreams of a nation. And yet, for all it’s size and noise, the great lumbering, sulking, cowardly beast showed a remarkable ability to hide, to slink away back into the shadows when the people started to fight back. But Gordzilla was not finished, Gordzilla is never finished. Gordzilla is still waiting patiently for his next opportunity to strike. The next opportunity to main and destroy. And when it comes, he will strike. And then he will slink back into the dark shadows from whence he came.

Great cartoons, the comic strip style would look good in a pro-indy newspaper….

At FMQ’s yesterday I was surprised that Lamont led with the NHS story and had a go at the FM about his golf handicap.I presume she was having a go at his presence at the Ryder Cup. I thought Neil Findlay, as the Health spokesman, would have asked these questions. Other alert readers will be aware that Findlay couldn’t make any comment about the golf because HE had a ticket for the Ryder Cup!!

link to scottish.parliament.uk

“On 26 September 2014 I received a ticket to attend the first day’s play of the Ryder Cup at Gleneagles. This ticket was for access to the course only and did not exceed the £570 threshold for registration in the gifts category. [Registered 29 September 2014]”
Mr Findlay also has registered other golf related interests, including playing at Gleneagles!!

I have no problem with Findlay attending any golf related activities, but for the leader of the British Labour Party (North Britain branch) to try and score cheap political points on such a flawed basis just sums them up. Was Findlay not consulted, did he not see the speech in advance?
They cannot challenge policies,because the govt is delivering, so they can only attack the person.She is hopelessly inadequate and long may she remain in post.

Thanks @Greg have been looking forward to this – well the cartoons, not what’s actually happening in them (particularly the second one) which is provoking slightly nervous laughter here.

Another great cartoon Greg!

Brilliant the way Nick Clegg has become Cameron’s fag.

Sort of reminded me of the Scottish film director Lindsay Anderson’s movie “if” which was on Film4 last night. Set in a public school it savagely attacks the class ridden English elite that is still with us. A great movie. Must watch again the director’s “Britannia Hospital”. Made in ’82 but is a critique of the privatisation of the NHS.

We could do with some strategy for the future from the YES leadership in response to the massive will to fight back that is rising within the YES supporters and activists.

Come on guys – your country needs you!

O/T Could someone post the link to Robin McAlpine’s most recent vid from the other day, I can’t find it anywhere.

Cheers

Of course we could do with some leadership from YES seniors but they have packed up and gone home. I got the same thank you email from Blair Jenkins today as mentioned in above comments. I replied saying just exactly what I thought of the weak and toothless strategy of the Yes Leadership throughout the campaign and questioned whether Jenkins had even been on our side. I also pointed out the situation that I and others like me have been left in, completely vulnerable to, and suffering from all the tory policy excesses which continue forevermore, thanks to Jenkins et al.’s failures that we were all loudly pointing out in the hope that the formal YES campaign would address them effectively in time to salvage the vote. I got an email reply saying that thye had all packed up after the referendum – couldn’t wait to get home to count their wages of in by omission no doubt and to hell with the grassroots who can wither as far as Jenkins et al. are concerned (and there is no doubt a few of us will).

Is the Morag here, the Morag from Dundee? There is a Morag months ago that filleted ‘Call Kay’ re the ‘commemoration’ of the First World War. A wonderful moment in broadcasting!

That was a good article by James Forrest (comments isn’t free), needs to be put out there folks and supported.

It was an excellent piece of work by our First Minster yesterday and today, when he kicked the legs right from under of the unionist politians who tried to use voter registration as a means to claim unpaid poll tax, just to scare people from registering to vote.

It was just the typical dirty tactic you can expect from the unionist cowards, who are too scared of ordinary people being allowed to vote unless its their own supporters.

Well done Alex, your ten times the Scot those useless unionist excuses are, it was a great move.

british hostage taxi driver beheaded

@ Marian.

We could do with some strategy for the future from Wings over Scotland.

What will Wings position be on the May 2015 elections and the 7 months lead up to them?

Does Wings just stay on the sidelines pelting the Unionist parties?

Is that a worthy goal or even a useful one?

Fionan, you articulate what has been in my mind since I first heard of Blair Jenkins’s appointment. On the few occasions I actually said it aloud I was savaged for my disloyalty by everyone in earshot. It was only a thought, a hunch, anyway.

I’d never heard of him before he got the Yes job. And he was a former BBC insider. At first I thought maybe he was ready to do a Bateman, at least (this was actually before Batemann himself came out as a cybernat), but it soon became clear it wasn’t going to be like that.

I began to wonder, if I was the British State, and I really wanted to cut Yes Scotland off at the knees, what would I do? I’d line up several plausible, apparently well-qualified candidates for the job of CE of the new organisation when the job adverts appeared, and hope to hell one of them was actually appointed.

Yes Scotland was always going to have an uphill struggle. It wasn’t going to need major active sabotage to cause it to fail. Passive, apparently benign incomptence would probably be quite enough.

Now if I can think of that, I should imagine the UK government insiders tasked with stopping Yes at all costs could think of it. It’s not rocket science. More than that, it’s actually DOABLE.

Forget crazy fantasies about swapping ballot papers and think more deviously, guys.

Conan, the Wikipedia page seems to be right, citing 72,759 which is the most recent officially-released number albeit a whole 29 hours out of date.

@ Morag

“The SNP is the largest political party in Scotland in terms of membership, MSPs and local councillors, with over 100,000 members, 65 MSPs and 424 councillors.[1][22][23] The SNP also currently holds 6 of 59 Scottish seats in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom and 2 of 6 Scottish seats in the European Parliament.”

“This page was last modified on 3 October 2014 at 21:15”

It’s now covered in wee Union flags.

Some wee prick having a laugh.

thomaspotter2014

Not if we want to carry a decent majority of support. The Conservatives are hell bent on creating the conditions where the 55% will wake up from their complacent slumber. Just wait and see what happens when the middle and upper classes are watching the great British Baker Off and cracks start to run up their Farrow and Ball covered walls in the New Town or the West End. Or flames start pishing our their taps.

There will be Yes windaes in Heriot Row by the time the Tories start motoring with a fresh mandate.

Hi Morag, Blair Jenkins! Is that not what I was on about in my comment! He was atrocious! But why for Gods sake! This wasn’t something we were just trying out! This was it! This was what some of us had worked for,for decades!

testing!

Hi Morag honey, hi Ian doll – and others – have we all put the handbags down? Please, I love you all, even those I disagree with – let’s be nice to each other xx

mmm I would have preferred ‘Gorgonzilla’ the big cheese of prehistoric politicians… ok I’ll get me coat!

Brilliant cartoon as ever Greg 🙂

@Morag

I thought you hated conspiracy theories? Maybe the truth was that Blair Jenkins was not really a leader type. To be honest, I think the simple truth is that we did not reach enough people, and the majority of Nos kept their head down and did not really engage with the debate. I also reckon the referendum came too soon, in terms of building up alternative media, and a real grassroots independence movement only really emerged in 2012. What beat us imo was the MSM/No campaign/big business, plus the small conservatism of many people in Scotland this time around. I think we need to look forward now.

@cynical lowlander

I think it is a bit too soon to be demanding strategy from Wings for the general election campaign next year. After all, Rev Stu is in midst of well deserved time off after working so hard over the last few years.

@ Paula Rose

It’s where you insert South African bits into machinery.

During apartheid of course…

My deepist sympathy for the family of the british hostage.

You only need to look at the Wings readership figures to see how many only became in engaged in the final weeks. Those that doubled the numbers here were internet users and i presume computer savvy.

Neither Blair Jenkins nor Alex Salmond or any individual lost the campaign for a Yes vote. The might of the establishment won it for them, we didn’t lose it no matter the deficiencies of the official Yes campaign.

We were outgunned on this occasion but surely we learned a lot? This referendum will be talked about for a long time to come. In my view, most amazing of all is the aftermath of the result.

So many believe they have been “robbed” of a democratic victory by using the MSM to manipulate the vote in their favour. Why do think so many new people never before involved in politics have joined Pro-Indy parties? Next time we will be ready for them.

That fight starts right now with an eye on the 2015 GE, giving them a bloody nose is the only thing that will get you noticed.

No slacking!

It would appear that Mr Alan Henning, the valiant taxi driver who went to deliver humanitarian supplies to people in Syria
Who were in desperate need, has been murdered by that diabolical organisation known as IS.

Even after desperate pleas from senior clerics of the Muslim Faith and the man’s wife they still saw fit to carry out their barbarous act.

It is tragic and Mr Henning’s family must be beside themselves with grief.

It would be wrong to belittle the courage of this man and the dignity of his grieving family, so, I will stay my anger and send my deepest condolences to his wife and family.

I am sorry for their troubles.

@Alex.
The readership figures are one thing Alex. Ever tried to translate that into active volunteers? Ask any of the referendum agents about how they were flooded out with volunteers for polling agents and counting agents.

There’s quite a few keyboard warriors about here, and there’s quite a few big ego’s around too just trying to push their own agenda.

And there’s a lot of daft comments too which are more suited to the place known as off topic.

Conan, here’s the Wiki edit comparison showing the thing with the flags you saw.

link to en.wikipedia.org

Lasted 6 minutes before someone reverted it!

@cynical lowlander

I understand your point of view but I was trying to highlight the increase in readers not potential activists in the final weeks before the vote. The activists were already here and doing their small bit in their own way.

It is quite clear though that the great majority of the voting public do not engage at all until the vote is almost upon them. It will likely remain that way.

However, my final point was that if you want to make change possible then you (the activist) must continue from now on. At least then you have a chance of bringing others around to our point of view well before the vote.

Something like 60,000 new party members and the increased funding associated with that can help make a difference in 2015.

I doubt many join a political party without giving it some consideration. Almost 90,000 committed voices now in Scotland, around 6% of those that voted Yes believe in it enough to sign up to carry on the fight.

That will do for me. As a start.

@cynical lowlander

Where now is a good question. However, Rev Stu and others deserve a break. Questions like that need time for consideration and thought.

Derek Henry

Good post – I agree wholeheartedly. We are going to have the ‘vote labour to keep the tories out propaganda from the BBC and the likes of the Record non-stop… and the same pish but the other way round from other rags.

They are all the same, red or blue. We have a war on 2 fronts facing us but unlike the entire referendum campaign the advantage has switched. Westminster is on the defensive, the press to an extent are feeling ill at ease and Yes is on solid ground thanks to Gordon and his last minute ego trip.

The membership increases is very encouraging but demands effort by the SNP in particular to make that membership inclusive, involved and engaging.

Absolutely, condolences to Mr Hennings family. They must be going through hell, But condolences also to all those families in all the middle eastern countries who have lost loved ones in horrific circumstances due to the horrendous acts of the West in propping up their favoured regimes at any one time.

And every time we do take ‘action’ that we justify with a myriad of reasons (excuses) we perpetuate and exacerbate all the issues we claim to be solving.

Who’s agenda and who are we kidding?

Oh and we just missed our chance to distance ourselves from all this madness.

A wee note, I heard the end of a news item tonight. regarding Longannet Power Station maybe closing. I know the pit has mine workings going under the river forth and beyond.
Could the Fracking companies maybe be planning something?

Or could it be close the power station and hey we will give you employment in this new super dooper safe energy that WILL CONTAMINATE THE WATER SUPPLY and is NOWHERE NEAR LONDON.
Just a thought
Gary.

Fuck it!

link to youtube.com

Can anybody help with a link to a site with all of the rag front pages for the next day.

Muttley, I quite like conspiracy theories. I just get very very irritated by conspiracy theories that are either wildly, impossibly implausible, or can be actively refuted. And yet these are the ones that seem to grow the most legs.

I could be entirely wrong about Blair Jenkins. Absolutely, completely wrong. But I can’t see that the notion is either a priori wildly implausible, or actively refuted.

Before Yes Scotland was set up, I was expecting and looking forward to a charismatic figure who had, and showed, as much passion for independence as we ourselves feel. Someone we could trust to be as committed as we were, even though they were being paid for it. Someone who would surprise us all with the innovative and exciting initiatives we would be involved in to get the Yes vote buzzing.

When I heard an ex-BBC man had been appointed my first thought was that perhaps this was someone in the mould of Derek Bateman (as we didn’t at that time know Derek was). Someone who was pro-independence, passionately, and knew how the BBC worked from the inside. So, perhaps, he’d be able to counter the bias in some way. But a wee voice in the back of my head said, but he could be 5th column, you know.

I think everyone wanted to believe that “good Blair” was cutting the mustard. That he was on our side. He came over as a nice guy, of course. But I never heard him say one thing that wasn’t a platitude. And what was the Grand Plan? In effect, do it yourself! Go out and build a grass-roots movement and convert people, one conversation at a time.

Actually that bit was inspired, but I’m not sure anyone realised it at the time. The grass-roots became the movement. But we needed more from Yes Scotland than badges and stickers and posters and anodyne newspapers and leaflets. We needed people to go up against Project Fear and show that it was a paper tiger. We didn’t get that.

In the end, bits of the grass roots tried to fill the gaps. Stuart in particular somehow managed the leadership bit for rather a lot of us, and filled in some of the deficiencies in the literature department with leaflets and the WBB. But he couldn’t get on TV or in the papers with the gravitas that the leadership of Yes Scotland could command.

I’ve been biting my tongue on this for many months. Now Yes Scotland, the official organisation, is history, maybe we can talk about it sensibly. And if there is good reason to believe that Blair Jenkins was no more than a poor appointment of someone without the right qualities, then so be it. I’m just not yet convinced.

@Bruce Wallace

The no red tories twitter page usually put up pics

check it out here

link to twitter.com

I remember the Moody Blues! I liked them! @Chic McGregor.

All I want to know( it’s not rocket science) Why did nobody in YES! Including the SNP, not come out on TV and produce the McCrone report, or phone ” call Kaye” when Louise White was dismembering the Yes vote! WHY did they not??? You see nobody can answer that! Or Nobody wants to!

Thanks Greg. Brilliant medicine.

Pretty harsh to be focussing on Blair Jenkins as one of our main reasons. He was probably too nice if that is his downfall, and failed to counter claims when challenged, or dug in like his opposite in McDougall and played dirty did. A good honest man gets nowhere though in this tough old game, and the old phrase nice guys finish last comes round for Blair.

We didn’t win because at the end of it all, not enough people wanted to take a ‘risk’. I think we, all the yes voters believe the riskier option was to stay in the UK – look at 2 weeks on from the vote and all the shíte that has come around from fracking to oil technology advancements, now today’s it could take 3 years for these “new powers” to be implemented.

Scots love this image of being canny and having our cake and eating it regards vote Labour for WM and SNP in Holyrood, but we truly have, or not us, but the ones of the 55% who thought they would vote no and get more powers.

We all tried our best. We all had much to offer in different ways.

An example – a friend kept sending me the usual crap lines – we can’t use the pound, we’ll be out the EU, farmer’s produce will be more expensive, and so on. I countered every single claim with PDFs, files, links, videos and so on. Spent a bit of time doing so as well.

He kept coming back with “I was told at a meeting we’d be moving our offices south”, etc, and was often told “I’d love a free Scotland, but if my mortgage goes up I’ll be raging.”

He just was too feart.

Again, I tried, we all tried in persuading.

He said he didn’t vote, but I doubt it.

Another I know just couldn’t be moved from a no position. I asked him one night to give me 2 benefits of the Union. Heck, I think I could myself as a Scottish nationalist, but he couldn’t, he couldn’t.

Many did move though – the end result of my friends was 12-2 to Yes. It was 8-4-2(dks) at one point.

45% was a good start. We’ll get an amazing finish. This is not over. There’s a saying in a song by an Icelandic band called Sigur Rós – “Þetta er ágætis brýjun, við gerum betur næst” – it means something like “we did ok, but we’ll do better next”

Our chance will come quicker than Quebec’s second did. Keep the faith and let’s keep on focussing.

75, must be near 80k now SNP members
7-8k Greens
4k SSP.

We all work together stragetically for Westminister in a I scratch yours, you scratch mine – and then go for it in Holyrood and I’d like to see a SNP majority of course as a member, but if we can see a few more SSP and Greens at the hands of Labour and the Libs,Tories then woohoo.

Look at that last poll. We’ll be looking at a SNP-Green government in 2016.

Let’s see what Lord Smith’s commission brings out. I doubt like many it’ll be anything of substance at all, but we all work together and put through progressive arguments for what we need. We sit tight, we offer our views.

Devo Max for 2015.

They won’t give us it. That means devolved EVERYTHING. They won’t give up the oil revenue amongst others.

We’ll be back in those booths again in a short time frame, I’m predicting openly 3-7 years and this time with more than 6% of the 55% on our sides and we’ll be voting Yes as a nation.

Yeah Morag exactly! Stu did more for Yes than YES did!

The YES campaign was PATHETIC!

Why is it ok to dissect it all now! We have lost the Referendum! But that’s NOT ok!

I want answers! I,ll let you know if I get any!

“At least it’s warm.” Brilliant line, brilliant cartoon!

@Mo9rag
at 11:25pm

Hi Morag. I believe that we had this conversation some time ago. Like about two years! I think that I accused Yes Scotland of sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya while the bad guys skulked in the shadows.

I think that we should have had better leadership. Someone with some charisma to rouse the troops. I cant believe Blair Jenkins and his stance on BBC bias. What campaign was he watching?

Sorry if it seemed I was disagreeing with comments about Blair Jenkins and the official YES campaign’s lacklustre and uninspiring leadership. I tend to agree with this assessment although there is much to be said for the YES campaign’s widely popular support material (t-shirt, stickers, flags, posters etc) and YES infrastructure such as local YES hubs and shops and daily stalls in towns and centres.

Joe, some of the Yes material was fine, but flags and badges are hard to get wrong. The more important stuff, the literature we all ran ourselves ragged stuffing through letterboxes, got steadily worse as the campaign progressed.

And the shops were entirely self-starting. One group had the idea, and did it themselves without any help at all from Hope Street. The crowdfunding records are there to prove it. And it worked and other groups started to think, we could do that, and they did. The main Yes Scotland office had nothing to do with them.

QUOTE: He kept coming back with “I was told at a meeting we’d be moving our offices south”, etc, and was often told “I’d love a free Scotland, but if my mortgage goes up I’ll be raging.” He just was too feart.

I have to say I’m fair scunnered with 55% of our population. Can you imagine a Tibetan voting against independence? I think 45% of our population are the best people in the world, especially when you hear the speeches of the likes of Tommy Sheridan, Elaine C. Smith, Jim Sillars et al. But what is to be done about all these pathetic scunners? What if there is a repeat referendum – WM will easily come up with some other scheme to buy these selfish moneygrubbers off with promises of jam in the future – because they care about nothing else. I honestly think we should herd them all into the Borders districts and just present these territories to England! Heck, I would even give them Edinburgh, as well. We have a couple of other capitals anyway – as well as the more deserving cities of Glasgow and Dundee.

Re all the comments re Blair Jenkins – he wasn’t great and neither were the Yes operation but they still managed to bring a good 15% on board.

If we had had the media on our side it was a shoe-in.

Only 27% of the 55% voted No due to feeling a connection with the UK -at least according to Lord Ashcroft.

PS very good cartoon Greg, still not recovered sense of humour completely

If anyone ever got anything from the Yes Scotland shop online, without any trouble, would they tell us about it? I only know that everyone I have spoken to has a similar tale of items out of stock and items said to have been despatched but which never arrived, and substitutes being sent out weeks later.

I decided to try it for myself, thinking surely they can’t screw up EVERY order. On 7th September I thought I would like a Yes fleece, for the final week. My neighbour had acquired one after much grief and non-delivery and order-changing and so on, and it fitted me. So I put the order in on the Sunday. I thought, with luck, Tuesday or Wednesday, seeing as it was obvious it would be needed soon.

Friday, still nothing. I phoned. Oh that was sent first class on Tuesday, you should have received it. Offered to re-send the order, but they didn’t have any left in that size. OK, go for the next size up and hope to get it at least for polling day.

On the 19th I got a card from the postie saying the item didn’t have enough postage on it and I had to pay £2.30 at the post office before they would re-deliver.

Actually I haven’t got it even yet, still waiting for the postman to re-deliver so he can take it back to the post office because I’m out, and then this time I will apparently be able to collect it.

So I still don’t know if it will fit.

Blair Jenkins did all he could but next time, Elaine C. Smith, if she’s available, She was incredible. Scottish women are classless. Who knows why.

@Bruce Wallace

Glad you found it, that’s the one I was referring too!

And by the way it’s not about not liking Yes Scotland. I joined up the minute it was consitituted, was at the inaugural meeting of Yes Borders and committed a large part of my leisure time to getting out the Yes Scotland literature. I was a Yes Scotland polling and counting agent on the day.

I’m disappointed. And my disappointment is making me perhaps a wee bit over-suspicious. Because I do realise the people who say “the British State would stop at nothing” aren’t entirely wrong about that.

Morag @ “the British State would stop at nothing”

You are right there! I have written about this before. The economic argument says to me that rUK would more or less collapse as an economic and military (UN Security Council) power without Scotland. A Scottish pound would strengthen against a rUK pound, the rUK’s trade deficit would, in my view, lead to a run on the pound….. A YES vote just could NOT be allowed to happen. So I almost welcome an approach in which we try to move towards “de facto”, rather than “de jure” independence, say by sending a majority of SNP members to WM or some other way, for example, SNP membership topping a million (and why shouldn’t it?) or YES shops existing in EVERY town and village in the country…

Oh Jesus, that was fucking funny.

I’m wiping the tears off my face.

Says it all. Everything.

I think one other factor in galvanising the Nos to come out and vote was the constant talking of ‘no more Tories’. A lot of Scots are pretty conservative in their views and the painting of an iScotland as a socialist utopia was possibly quite a scary thought for them, just as the prospect of a right-wing isolationist state with no Human Rights is scary to the rest of us.

But we have to remember that Scotland was a Conservative-voting country up until the merger with the English Tories, and to campaign like they haven’t a hope of government in iScotland ever again was never going to win them over.

I think for the next phase of the campign we need to make sure parties like the SDA are on board, and the emphasis should be on getting who we vote for, even if that’s a centre-right party. (OK, it’s not likely to happen for a generation or two, if at all, but it is a possibility). And they need to have that possibility of they won’t vote Yes.

The SDA said they were excluded from Yes Scotland which is why we heard so little of them during the campaign. I don’t know the truth of that so I won;t comment further, but we need them to be on board so that voters can see there are parties for all views, not just the eager Left, or we’ll never get them over to yes.

@Votadini Jeannie –

What is the SDA?

Just on about YES Scotland again, I was never fond of their website, but I did come to realise and accept its main purpose after a time. This was in the beginning to get people to signup and create a grassroots organisation, but also to donate.

It was hugely successful in the first, but didn’t do enough to encourage the second. There were articles but they weren’t great, and their layouts on the front page were if I remember correctly, OK back then but could have been better. The standard few lines and then “read more”. The attention span of a typical surfer is about 10 seconds or something like that. Don’t grab it then, they move to the next search engine entry.

Best other thing it did was after Danny Alexander’s giveaway “Give a £1 for Scotland”. That was the only donation they ever got off me and a keen YES son – £1 each exactly!

Alex I share your pain my friend.

But your a fighter and will never give up. We have lost a battle but will win the war. Like you say above , organise and get Indi MP’s in place and Shove Labour down to tory levels where they belong.

Seriously, give it up with the: it was Blair Jenkin’s fault or he was a British plant stuff. It is starting to sound a bit looney tunes now. Jenkins wasn’t the only person in Yes.

I could ask the question where was Dennis Canavan at the end of the campaign? You know the guy who was supposed to be the leader.

What about the people I met at demos who were so sure they lived in Independence strongholds that the Yes votes wouldn’t be counted, it would be weighed in their areas. Well they were half right, the no should have been weighed.

Did these people not try hard enough, of course not, they tried their damnedest to do all they could.

At the end of this campaign, the major lesson to be learned is that once the full weight of the establishment machine comes to bear, and you have no control of conventional media then you are going to lose. The fact we got 45% and might even have sneaked a win is a sensational result. We now know where to concentrate the fight for the next round. The pump is primed and it is now time to move on from the 45% support level. We will gain converts if we show unity but if we start infighting and bitching then the establishment won’t have to worry about us again as we will do their job for them.