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Forgetting to remember to forget

Posted on October 08, 2020 by

In the light of yesterday’s revelations, we’ve sent the following Freedom Of Information request to the Central Enquiry Unit (CEU) of the Scottish Government.

Yesterday (8 October 2020) the committee investigating matters relating to allegations against Alex Salmond published written evidence from the First Minister, submitted to it on 4 August 2020.

In it the First Minister made reference to a meeting she held with Mr Geoff Aberdein at her office in the Scottish Parliament on 29 March 2018, saying:

“As has been reported already, four days earlier – 29 March 2018 – I had spoken with Geoff Aberdein (former Chief of Staff to Alex Salmond) in my office at the Scottish Parliament. Mr Aberdein was in Parliament to see a former colleague and while there came to see me. I had forgotten that this encounter had taken place until I was reminded of it in, I think, late January/early February 2019.”

Yet as recently as 31 July 2020, the Scottish Government was still insisting that no such meeting took place. In a Freedom Of Information response on that date, located hereit said

“we hold no recorded information about any contact between Mr Geoff Aberdein and the current First Minister Nicola Sturgeon on or around 29th March 2018, or about contact between Mr Geoff Aberdein and Scottish Government Ministers or staff concerning inappropriate behaviour by Alex Salmond towards Scottish Government staff or any other women.”

The information I seek is as follows:

(1) Given that the First Minister had remembered this previously-forgotten meeting approximately 18 months earlier (“late January/early February 2019”), can you explain why the CEU, representing the Scottish Government, was a year and a half later still officially denying that it ever happened?

Was the CEU covering up for the First Minister? Or did the First Minister fail to inform the CEU of the meeting after she’d remembered it, having for some reason failed to properly record it at the time it happened? I can think of no other possible explanation than those, because if the meeting had concerned party business rather than government business (and therefore not been required to be recorded) it would of course have been in contravention of the Ministerial Code to hold it in the First Minister’s office.

(2) Were any other Scottish Government staff, who also had a duty to record the meeting, present during it? If so, who were they and why did they not do so?

We’re sure any confusion will be cleared up promptly.

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    474 to “Forgetting to remember to forget”

    1. Beaker says:

      This is getting like Chinese whispers. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a serious matter.

    2. Ross says:

      Fair questions and deserve an answer.

    3. Wulls says:

      Wouldn’t like to be swinging by the nuts waiting on a lucid answer to that one……

    4. Scott says:

      “We’re sure any confusion will be cleared up promptly”


    5. Scott says:

      *Suddenly remembers that laughing emojis don’t work on this site & changes them into question marks. Now I look stupid.*

    6. MaggieC says:

      Fmqs are just starting now , It’ll be interesting to see if any Msp asks Nicola Sturgeon about her written evidence statement that was published yesterday .

    7. MaggieC says:

      Ruth Davidson straight in with the question to Nicola about her forgetting about the meeting date

    8. Helen Yates says:

      Watching FMQs right now and it seems to me Sturgeon is going to talk her way out of this, she’s good I’ll give her that.

    9. Liz says:

      FMQs supposed to start at 12,20 but NS having to update chamber on Covid in a ‘short’ statement – she’s still talking

    10. Clydebuilt says:

      Right now Ruth Davidson is trying to damage the FM using , Sturgeon’s memory failure.
      The Tories are NOT trying to cover this up, to protect NS to keep her in place “because she doesn’t want independence”

    11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Sturgeon’s performance at FMQs was appalling. Nervous giggling and stuttering, waffling for time and totally avoiding the questions about the March meeting. That won’t work with the committee. They don’t have to wrap up in 10 minutes, they’ll just keep asking.

    12. Dave Somerville says:

      [“Sturgeon” – Ed] is hiding behind her Covid Shield for deflecting any awkward questions that relates to the Salmond case.

      So on her current thinking, there should be no mention of,

      Hate Crime Bill

      Apart from those particular subjects, you can talk to her about anything you want.

    13. Dave Somerville says:

      She’s rattled

    14. Dave Somerville says:


      You are like a battering ram.

      Blow by blow, her protective Covid Wall is beginning to crack and will soon come crashing down around her.

      You have her on the ropes Rev,,, keep up the great work.

    15. ClanDonald says:

      There’s no doubt in my mind that Nicola Sturgeon was lying through her teeth at FMQs today. Of course you don’t just “forget” that a meeting of such eventful events took place, who is she trying to kid.

      And if she can lie about this with such ease what else has she lied about in the past.

      She’s become like Trump and Johnson, we’ll never again be able to trust a single word that comes out her mouth.

      Time the Murrells went, they are compromised and could bring the whole movement down. We need new, reliable leadership set up well in advance of the elections next May, and soon, otherwise it may be too late.

    16. Big Jock says:

      Clyde- I think you are onto something.

      In normal times Sturgeon would have been thrown under the bus. Forgetting a meeting?? This woman is one of the most detailed politicion on the planet.

      It would suit the Tories if she stayed in power. She is not a threat. Cherry and Salmond are.

      Boris has got a free meal ticket with Sturgeon. Why would he try and ruin that.

    17. Dave Somerville says:

      Sturgeon gone by Xmas.

      I seriously think she is mentally exhausted and will just throw the towel in.

      The pressure on her is relentless.

      All of her own doing of course.

      So no sympathy from me.

      Just go Nicola and we’ll call it quits.

      Tell the world you are quitting on medical grounds.

    18. Daisy Walker says:

      On the 29th March 2018 when NS was informed of a complaint of a sexual nature against AS.

      Was it one complainer at this time.

      Or 2.

      On what date did the first complainer lodge the complaint.

      On what date did the second complainer lodge her complaint.

      Was the second complainer privy to details of the first, and were they involved in the investigation. If so, at what date did someone excuse them from this duty, due to a conflict of interest?

      According to Geoff Aberdein he was contacted by a member of NS’s staff in mid March with regards to setting up a meeting with NS on 29/3/18.

      What date was that, can that staff member be officially contacted to confirm where they noted details of this, and if they entered into the FM’s official diary. It is simply not realistic, for anyone to believe that a formal meeting with the FM, at Holyrood 2 weeks in advance, would have ANY chance of being kept, if it was not on the official diary.

      Why is it not there now?

    19. Bob Mack says:


      Nor did the Tories start the trail of lies. That was all SNP hierarchy. Down to themselves.

    20. Mike Fenwick says:

      Extract from main post: ““we hold no recorded information about any contact between Mr Geoff Aberdein and the current First Minister Nicola Sturgeon on or around 29th March 2018, or about contact between Mr Geoff Aberdein and Scottish Government Ministers or staff concerning inappropriate behaviour by Alex Salmond towards Scottish Government staff or any other women.”

      Is it therefore a fair, albeit speculative, assumption that the meeting with Geoff Aberdein could not therefore be about Government business, as no such record in that respect apparently exists?(and doesn’t apparently exist to this day?)

      Also included in the papers from Nicola Sturgeon is this:

      “However, from what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.”

      Does that help explain why no such record exists? Would a meeting on non-Governmental matters be recorded?

      Is there a clear distinction that must be observed?

      It appears so, included in the papers from Nicola Sturgeon is this:

      “In relation to ensuring that there is a clear distinction between my role as First Minister and my role in the SNP, I have regard to the terms of both the MSP and Ministerial Codes of Conduct.”

      So a clear distintion is acknowledged.

      And finally, again from the papers from Nicola Sturgeon there is also a way to avoid continued speculation, via this:

      “And all government business, no matter the platform/medium it is conducted on/through, is subject to Freedom of Information legislation”

      Let’s see what transpires from the very important FOI as above.

    21. MaggieC says:

      This from the Times ,

      “ Alex Salmond inquiry : Court say key documents can be handed over “ .

      I see this will tie in with the letter on the Harassment and Complaints Committee correspondence page which has been updated with new correspondence ,

      I’ve not had time to read all the updates on the correspondence page yet ,

    22. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The FM was clearly rattled and on the defensive at FMQs this afternoon.

      Her performance was very unconvincing – she reverted to her normal behaviour when rattled, she waffled.

      For all that, I think TRuthless went easy on her – why?

      I am definitely coming round to the belief, the Tories want her kept there for now.

    23. Hatuey says:

      Well, again, according to Craig Murray who was present at the Salmond trial this year, Aberdein said under oath that Sturgeon’s people had contacted him by phone in “mid-March” (2018) regarding historic allegations made against Salmond.

      To my mind that means we can dispense with this idea as an excuse or explanation; “if the meeting had concerned party business rather than government business (and therefore not been required to be recorded) it would of course have been in contravention of the Ministerial Code to hold it in the First Minister’s office.” (Wings, above)

      I’m not talking about meetings in Government offices here. I’m talking about phone calls made to Aberdein as early as mid-March.

      Nothing above or anywhere explains why Sturgeon would mislead us on this. So, why would she?

      Worst case scenario, she could have explained that one of her aids mistakenly used a Government phone to deal with party-related business. Big deal.

      But she didn’t do that: she chose instead to “forget” previous contact with Aberdein and mislead us on the question of when she first heard about the formal allegations being made.

      If you rule out forgetfulness – and we should – then she did mislead us. Why?

      If it’s not true that she found out about the allegations in April, as she originally intimated (and now admits was untrue), why should we assume anything she says is true?

      For all we know she knew about the allegations the second they were made, or even before that(!), whenever that was, and as it stands nobody anywhere can rule out a conspiracy that predates all of this.

      We simply need more information.

    24. Clydebuilt says:

      Big Jock.

      I said the exact opposite of that

      The Tories are NOT trying to cover this up, to protect NS to keep her in place “because she doesn’t want independence”

      The Tories are NOT trying to cover this up.
      They are NOT trying to protect NS,
      They are NOT trying to keep her in place.

      The Tories are exposing Sturgeon’s actions.

    25. Big Jock says:

      Clyde -Sorry – It was the way you worded it. It read as Ruth wasn’t wanting to mortally wound Sturgeon.

      In that case I would probably disagree. Ruth and Boris know Sturgeon is not a threat , so will not be part of putting her out of power.

      Why would they?

    26. Kate says:

      Aberdein can prove them all to be liars by calling up his telephone records for the time he swore under oath that he RECEIVED a phone call from the FM office mid March, asking him to come to meet with the FM. That call can be pulled up, as can the two he made out of concern to Pringle & Hamilton QC.

      If proven true that he was requested to a meeting with FM the. She HAS TO GO. s she HAS been caught out in a LIE. She & her office of liars May have destroyed records, but they surely can’t have destroyed the phone records of Aberdein.

    27. MaggieC says:

      Me @ 1.14 pm

      Re updates on the Committee correspondence page , the minutes of the committee meeting on Tuesday have been published and they agreed to publish the further correspondence received and and sent by the committee , The next meeting of the committee is on 27th October as the Parliament is closed for the next 2 weeks due to October recess .

      From the minutes ,

      • to invite those key officials to give evidence to the Committee on 27 October, as the start of the judicial review phase of its oral evidence taking;

      Minutes of Tuesday’s meeting ,

    28. Daisy Walker says:

      @ MaggieC says:
      8 October, 2020 at 1:14 pm
      This from the Times ,

      “ Alex Salmond inquiry : Court say key documents can be handed over “ .

      I see this will tie in with the letter on the Harassment and Complaints Committee correspondence page which has been updated with new correspondence ,

      I’ve not had time to read all the updates on the correspondence page yet ,’

      I see a potential fly in this ointment.

      The original owner of the productions, which in this case is likely to be phone records, minutes of meetings,and other such documents, have been authorised to ‘borrow’ them back from the court and make them available to the inquiry.

      Some of the documentary evidence, possibly quite a lot, are likely to be ‘owned’ by Scot Gov. They are not allowed to destroy them, as technically the court still have power over them, but whether they hand them over or not, is another matter.

      Much will rest on how much AS managed to obtain in a corroborated manner.

      Just in case anyone was going to get their hopes up.

    29. Gregory Beekman says:

      Why is today’s Politics Live already available on iPlayer but not today’s First Minister’s Questions?

      I was out when FMQs was on and would now like to watch them. English politics program quickly made available on iPlayer but not the Scottish politics program. Another FOI, perhaps?…

    30. Freshmint says:

      Big Jock @ 1:32 pm

      “Ruth and Boris know Sturgeon is not a threat , so will not be part of putting her out of power.

      Why would they?”

      I guess once it becomes clear that she’s on the way out, they’ll want to be the ones to put the boot in.

    31. Daisy Walker says:

      Re my last, having thought about it a bit more, given the rules on full disclosure. AS legal team should have authorised, certified copies of all the evidential documents.

      Just in case Scot Gov can’t find them.

    32. James Che. says:

      So Geoff Aberdein was at another appointment to see someone else in parliament (a former colleague).
      While there he came to see the FM. It does not sound like a pre-arranged appointment between Geoff Aberdein and the first minister, and seems to have been spontaneous on behalf of Mr Aberdein?

    33. Robert Graham says:

      Having watched FMQs The best opinion I can offer is “Floundering” .

      When you are doing ok and are merrily sailing along problems that spring up are pretty well easily attended to ,

      However it becomes apparent a change in someone’s behaviour is noticeable when they are under pressure and are being distracted by other events and the previously small problems become more pressing and more annoying.

      I believe I noticed that exhibition in the behaviour from Nicola Sturgeon today , I again say Floundering.

      It was unconvincing and uncomfortable to watch , frayed nerves and a nervous presentation , however we shouldn’t be seen as siding with any unionist party over this , a Unionist majority in Hollywood is a Horror Movie I would rather not watch at this time , so keep it real better the devil you know. The one we know can change direction than the ones waiting in the wings who won’t even allow you look at never mind a say in plans the Westminster Tory government have in mind for us .

    34. Hatuey says:

      Kate: “If proven true that he was requested to a meeting with FM the. She HAS TO GO. s she HAS been caught out in a LIE. She & her office of liars May have destroyed records, but they surely can’t have destroyed the phone records of Aberdein.”

      As much as her going over this would be entertaining, right now I am more interested in the question of why she didn’t tell the truth…

      People lie to hide the truth – it’s as simple as that.

      What truth was being hidden here and why?

    35. Big Jock says:

      Robert -Yes it’s a difficult balance, being critical of Sturgeon while avoiding siding with Lucifer.

      That’s why the longer Sturgeon hangs around, the worse for all of us. I honestly believe that a new leader would galvanise the yes movement around the SNP again.

      Far from fearing it. I look forward to it. Sturgeon can’t survive this. The movement has turned against her. (The real movement).

    36. Heaver says:

      “Scottish experts call for rape complainer anonymity law”

      Interesting timing….

    37. Gregory Beekman says:

      Now watching FMQs on Broadcasting Scotland YouTube channel.

      Have rechecked iPlayer – Brian Taylor’s FMQs still not available, but Politics Live was available to watch half an hour ago.

      Given they’re both broadcast at roughly the same time, why is one up on iPlayer but not the other?

    38. Newburghgowfer says:

      A rabbit caught in the headlights would be more convincing !! The games up and she knows it, the Dogs have finally decided enough is enough and now she will be hounded. I expect her to go with a fake illness to cover her departure. The sooner the better as long as its not any of the 3 amigos who hate cybernats who take over !!

      Angus Mcleod would be my choice

    39. James Che. says:

      How have you presumed that the first minster requested the meeting with Geoff Aberdeen.
      It seems to me that the meeting was not pre-arranged because Geoff aberdien was there to to see some one else, a former colleague.

    40. Bob Mack says:

      @James Che,

      You might wAnt to look at the sworn testimony of Aberdein at the trial. I think you will find he does in fact testify that he received a call mid March from Liz Lloyd to arrange a meeting.

      It is court record.

    41. Robert Graham says:

      Big Jock @2:08
      Agreed I suspect her hubby is probably going to be presented with a offer he cant refuse shortly , I just wonder how many knifes in the back he will get in order to deflect any more damage on the FM , I guess it wont be a passing Bus either because they have all been used on the previous casualties , This one will be a Train and poor Peter will be used as cover everything will be heaped on him , alex and Nicola will kiss and make up , and we all live happily ever after christ its like being in a Angutha Christie crime novel or a Fairy tale ha ha

    42. Bob Mack says:

      Craig Murray has just covered this meeting in his blog.

      There appear to be corroborating witnesses who Aberdein contacted immediately after for legal advice. They have yet to speak out.

    43. Lothianlad says:

      “nobody anywhere can rule out a conspiracy that predates all of this.”

      We simply need more information.

      Ive been posting for ages, the british secret service are hard at work in the SNP SG.

      In 2014 the tactic was projecf fear. Now it is project smear!!

      AS totally set up and vilified was the start. They were not banking on him being acquitted on ALL charges.

      That left the murals and several high profile SNP politicians and SG civil servants very vulnerable.

      The brit state yoons will keep NS in place only until they can maximise their position, then expose her part in it all. ( if indeed she is involved, and I am convinced she is).

      The brit state secret service will have done their job by turning a once well disciplined, focussed and honourable party into a shambles.

      Utter division in the SNP was their aim and they have achieved that.

      It’s now up to us in the indy movement to take the lead, clear out the dross and get the party back to its core aim.

      The union is on the ropes, end game is coming.

      We have to take the reigns now, and get rid of the woke brigade and the murrels.

    44. Gregory Beekman says:

      One last thing…

      …FMQs is now available on iPlayer

      (about an hour after Politics Live was available)

    45. Bob Mack says:


      You are somewhat two faced about this. You posted the opposite on Wee Ginger Dug. Perhaps living in ignorance I evidence is your forte.

    46. Fireproofjim says:

      Big Jock
      “The real movement has turned against her”
      That may be true, but the “real movement” is probably only a couple of percent of the 54% potential Yes voters who are currently supporting her and who are oblivious to the recent shenanigans. Or maybe they don’t care.
      Anyway, it is far too late to pull the house down and rebuild it before May’s election. I think we must grit our teeth, bite our tongues, turn the other cheek, haud our wheest, etc, etc, and when we win our independence then we throw out the whole “woke” gang and the treacherous civil servants and build the free Scotland we have been longing for for so long.
      I’ve been voting for such an outcome for at least fifty years. It is so close now and I don’t want to lose it in the next six months.
      You may call me a dreamer but I’m not the only one.

    47. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Hatuey says:
      8 October, 2020 at 2:05 pm

      A’s much as her going over this would be entertaining, right now I am more interested in the question of why she didn’t tell the truth…

      People lie to hide the truth – it’s as simple as that.

      What truth was being hidden here and why?’

      GA states, under oath, that a member of NS staff phoned him in mid March to set up the 29//18 meeting for him with NS, at Holyrood.

      This cannot have NOT been entered into her diary. For it no longer to be there, would indicate it has been deliberately removed.

      What would the recording of that meeting show. It would show the names of who was there.

      AS stated he had evidence of collusion. His initial court appearance was won, ‘unfair procedures and apparent bias’.

      One way procedures are demonstrably unfair, and biased, is if a Victim conducts, or is involved in conducting the investigation.

      NS evidence shows that throughout April and May – she was of the opinion AS was going to resign from the party.

      On 3/6/18 her messages record AS informing her he will take legal action against the Scot Gov, requesting she notify the Permanent Secretary with regards his offer of Arbitration.

      On 6/6/18 she does so.

      On 23/6/18 the SNP take draconian action against MSP Mark MacDonald, thereby setting a ‘party’ president of zero tolerance /MeToo movement.

      AS wins his appearance at the first court proceedings in January 2019. At that time 2 complainers were the subject of that procedure.

      How many complaints/complainers was NS made aware of on 29/3/18. Who else was present at that meeting.

      Without naming names or job titles, of the people present at that ‘first’ disclosure, did any subsequently go on to become formal complainers against AS, or were any of them in fact complainers at that time, and at what point were they excused from any involvement in the AS enquiry due to a conflict of interest.

      If this scenario is true, removing this meeting and the names of those present from the log book, would have been the first part in trying to ensure AS could not prove unfair procedures, collusion and apparent bias.

      It is one thing to get confused about which hat your wearing, especially when the issue at hands enters into both arenas, its another thing to forget about the date and location of such an important meeting, it is arguable that one could inadvertently misinform parliament – knowing full well its a sackable offence – but all of that is blown all the way out of the water if the log book records have been doctored to hide the name of a co-conspirator.

    48. Ronald Fraser says:

      Another excellent post Rev.

      Tick tock Sturgeon!!!

    49. Dan says:

      As to the focus on when Nicola Sturgeon first became aware of the allegations, was it not the case that the SNP’s compliance officer Ian McCann new of historic allegations but the party chose to sit on them and never have to deploy them.
      How could the Party Leader and CEO partner not be aware of this situation.

    50. Dan says:

      Typo corrections

      …Ian McCann “knew”

      … and her CEO partner

    51. Asklair says:

      Grateful that WoS for doing this journalism. We all have our own views and opinions. The bottom line for me is this is a SNP mess caused by the SNP. It’s up to all their MPs, MSPs paid followers and their members to resolve this now.

    52. Bob Mack says:


      It is starting to unravel at an alarming pace and get we still have those who want to ignore that Alex Salmond was within one verdict of life imprisonment.

      Ignore everything for the greater good? What good would that be if we were to ignore a premeditated plot against a great and innocent man. Let him for in prison whilst we celebrate Independence?

    53. Mist001 says:

      Straightforward questions which should receive straightforward replies but I think we all know what the initial response will be and the one after that and if they can be bothered replying by that time, the one after that too.

    54. Stan Broadwood says:


      It still gives you a shiver every time you think of how close Alex Salmond came to spending his dying days in a Scottish prison.

    55. laukat says:

      I’m not as familiar with the details or have the inside knowledge that others clearly have on this forum. SO if someone could clairify if I have this correct it would be helpful?

      I think what is being inferred us at best she’s tried to hide that party business was conducted on Scottish Government premises? Looks a pretty clear case she lied under oath and wouldn’t take too much to expose that via comittee questioning of Geoff Aberdein

      In reality she woudln’t stake her career on that so the more likely real story is she got wind of allegations against Alex Salmond, helped create a process that would formalise the allegations against him and her husband organised the women involved to provide evidence against him?

      If the latter is true, the part I’m struggling with the motive is for such a high risk play? Sure it removes Alex Salmond from the scene but by the time this plan was executed he was already a peripheral picture unless she feared after the not great 2017 GE that there was dissent on her leadership and feared a challenge?

      I don’t see the way out for Nicola assuming the comittee ask the right people the right questions beyond hoping that it’ll be forgotten about in midst of the pandemic. Failing that Peter Murrell, Liz Loyd and Leslie Evans would need to fall on their swords and take the blame to avoid Nicola having to do the same.

      Perhaps the only way to salvage her reputation would be to offer Alex Salmond a way back as say chair of the NEC whilst also finding a route that allows Joanne Cherry into Holyrood. That may allow her some PR opportunities to show her and Salmond bear no ill feelings whilst also bringing back the SNP’s core vote/membership back on line.

    56. Joe Morrison says:

      I would actually rejoin the Party if Sturgeon was replaced with a Staunch Indy leader

      We have messed about long enough.

    57. Bob Mack says:


      I think the Machiavelli behind this is Peter Murrell.

      He may have instigated several actions which would then have placed his wife in a position where she had to defend him or expose him.

      It’s the only thing that makes any sense.Either way she made her choice.p

      What is for certain though is that the plot to nullify Salmond was a joint effort between those who govern us and those who apply out laws.

    58. Dave Somerville says:

      I wonder what medication Sturgeon is on?

      It must be good gear, to block out all her evil wrong doings.

    59. stonefree says:

      @ Bob Mack at 3:17 pm

      I have come to take a slightly different view in that, all was done to prevent independence prior to that I believed that it was Sturgeon and Murrell’s concept to total Scottish power

    60. Sylvia says:

      Gregory Beekman @01:58
      You can watch direct at Scottish Parliament TV-If you miss anything go to Video Arhive and you will find it there

      The link for FMQs

    61. Gary45% says:

      Now its time to play arsehole bingo.
      I have all the usual suspects on the card for the expected garbage.

    62. Beaker says:

      @Fireproofjim says:
      8 October, 2020 at 3:01 pm
      “Anyway, it is far too late to pull the house down and rebuild it before May’s election.”

      Politics being politics, the house could collapse on it’s own. I wouldn’t bet money on any possible outcome at the moment.

    63. Alf Baird says:

      Lothianlad/Big Jock

      The FM’s finished, its written all over her face, and she needs to go. But I would say this case and events in general confirm that the ‘personnel’ problem is more extensive.

      Her chosen cabinet have also proven to be useless as are many of the MSPs and for sure also the woke reinforcements positioning themselves for next May’s big ‘career opportunity’. They have all demonstrated they are content to cooperate with colonisation and also seek to oppress the people even more with their unhinged laws.

      We need a clearoot o thon mankit midden an staert agin, either that or a hail new Naitional Pairty, wi ane objeck an nae messin aboot!

      I would suggest all SNP/indy party candidates (if they wish to stand) must sign a commitment to ensuring Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK union after election of a nationalist majority next May, and to then holding further early elections in the new Scottish State.

      The other ongoing ‘problem’ here is Whitehall’s civil servants still being sent in to ‘run’ (i.e. undermine!) Scotland. That needs to be ended. Fowk can anely ser ane maister!

    64. Big Jock says:

      Independence is more important than everything else to me.

      I am all for not damaging the cause. However there comes a point where you can’t just ignore what Murrell and Sturgeon have done. It’s completely immoral. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a shame on us all to pretend Sturgeon didn’t do what she did.

      Sometimes doing the right thing , is the hardest path to take. We have to take the right path!

      Lets imagine a scenario where we all ignore this stuff. We go through another election campaign. Secretly not believing a word Sturgeon says, and feeling a rage inside every time she comes out with her fake platitudes. She wins the election. She gets a super majority.

      She then asks for a Section 30. The inevitable knock back comes. She stays in power for another 4 years and refuses to listen to anyone else.

      How will we feel when we had a chance to get shot of her?

    65. Dan says:

      @ Alex Lomax

      Would have thought a big Indy fan like yourself would ken better than to post direct links to Unionist rags… But what would I know.
      Your link archived.

    66. Daibhidh MacRuaidhri says:

      The lies, deflection and misremembering that flow so easily from the FM’s tongue, are explainable from a perspective that the origin of the false accusations is the FM’s office.

      Every lie since then has been to cover up Sturgeon’s culpability.

      Evans said that it was the FM who instigated the changing of the procedure to allow former ministers to be pursued despite the apprehension of the civil service.

    67. susanXX says:

      Alf Baird@3:53pm. I agree completely. The clear out can’t wait for independence.

    68. kapelmeister says:

      Isn’t it obvious that the unionist establishment are trying to finesse Sturgeon through to the election campaign? And then the MSM will hit the SNP with all the Salmond stitch-up stuff, all the woke craziness and all the SNP accounts murkiness. There is so much ammo for them to fire.

      A unionist majority at Holyrood is looming…if Sturgeon isn’t turfed out. A new SNP leader without baggage is not likely to be troubled at the hustings by Douglas Ross and Richard Leonard.

    69. Lothianlad says:

      ” the motive for such high risk play”

      NS has been under the control of the british secret service. They were I influential in her rise to power, and along the way made sure she was implicated in wrong doings.

      The brit state are experts at discrediting opponents and entrapment. They will manipulate people and situations so they can be controlled.

      It may start with small stuff, but just enough situations to entangle ther opponents until they do their bidding.

      Often they will use fear, intimidation, bribery, blackmail, coercion and so on.

      This ensures that when the time is right they will get the politician etc to do what they want.

      They may appear as being on the politicians side by ensuring exposure diesnt happen, as long as they do as they are told.

      Entrapment may have many forms, financial corruption, sexual deviance, criminal activity etc…

      They will identify ther threat for years sometimes, gather information, find weakness and compromising situations then use it to their advantage.

      This may happen to someone close or a partner. In any event the target is controlled.

      NS has been compromised and now knows the only people keeping her safe are the ones who set her up in the first place. That’s why all the silly policies and deflection of independence have taken place.

      People shouldn’t be surprised by this. The SNP are the biggest threat to the union.

      Do folk really think that the british state wint use all of its powers to neutralise its biggest threat?

      They were doing it in Ireland for years, causing division and bloodshed.

      They have been hard at work in the SNP SG also.

      A Staunchly pro Independence FM and SNP leader is their worst nightmare!

      That’s why sturgeon is still in place.

    70. Colin Alexander says:

      Stu Campbell

      “Mr Salmond faced a backlash in 2012 when it was revealed by The Telegraph that he held a secret tea party for the Weirs at Bute House after they won a record £161 million playing the EuroMillions lottery.

      No record was made of the meeting in the First Minister’s official register of guests at the residence, while four days later the Weirs donated £1 million to the SNP.

      On 14 June 2012, the findings of a two-month investigation into whether Mr Salmond had breached the Scottish Ministerial Code over the incident were published, clearing him of any wrongdoing.

      Dame Elish Angiolini, who wrote the report, concluded that no breach had occurred because it was a “personal/party” meeting and there was no expense to the taxpayer as Mr Salmond used his own supply of tea and biscuits”.

    71. Black Joan says:

      Just caught up with FM’s questions.

      All that expansive, gesticulating self-defence in response to the Baroness. Protesting rather too much?

      In the midst of it, once again, there’s still no hint of sympathy for Mr Salmond, just righteous remarks about the need to investigate criminality.

      With astonishing arrogance, we’re told that the Tories would probably have chosen to sweep such things under the carpet, a comment that, again, implies a taint of guilt and crime, and oh the poor women.

      The outrageous, humiliating and hugely expensive failure to adopt correct procedures at the highest party and government level is dismissed as if it was a slight oversight concerning some petty cash. This appears to echo the L. Evans attitude: never mind the procedure, never mind arbitration, look, Sisters, see what he’s accused of.

      Oh, (and after a great deal more time-consuming bluster than necessary), don’t waste her time on this while she is single-handedly trying to wrestle with a (tautological) global pandemic (pause for applause).

      The best leaders know how to delegate.

    72. Colin Alexander says:

      Stu Campbell

      See also:

      “the tea party highlighted a loophole in the Scottish Government’s disclosure rules – publishing guests at Bute House only if they received lunch, dinner or attended a drinks reception”.

    73. Bob Mack says:

      @Gary 45%,

      I see you’ve started without us. Gullible few ,number 2.

    74. robertknight says:

      Kapelmeister @4:08

      Agreed – Yoons probably working on the ‘give them enough rope’ principal, whereby they’ll hang the entire Scot Gov out to dry at the 11th hour of the election campaign if the Sturgeon/Murrell circus is still in town by then. Keeping their powder dry ’til then no doubt.

    75. Colin Alexander says:

      “Scottish Ministerial Code 2016 edition

      Use of Government Property / Resources

      7.2 Government property should not generally be used for constituency work [19] or party activities. A particular exception is recognised where a building has been designated as the First Minister’s official residence. Where Ministers host party or personal events in the First Minister’s official residence, it should be at their own or at party expense, with no cost falling on the public purse”.

    76. NorthBrit says:


      I think we can all concur with the FM that we should investigate criminality.

      In particular perjury and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

      Her actions and those of the Scottish judiciary have conspired to destroy confidence in the rule of law in Scotland.

      Any responsible government would, however belatedly, try to sort this out before investors decide that Scotland is a place where it is not possible to enforce their rights or obtain justice.

    77. Mike Fenwick says:

      Ever since I read this “Mr Aberdein was in Parliament to see a former colleague and while there came to see me.” it has made me ask why say it that way, why make it sound as though the meeting, not now denied, was more or less incidental to why Geoff Aberdein was there in Holyrood that day?

      Then from today’s FMQs, it becomes “fleeting and opportunistic” : “There is something seared on my memory, it is the meeting that took place when Alex Salmond himself sat in my own home and gave me the details of the complaints that were made against him and gave me his response to aspects of those complaints.

      “That is what is seared in my memory and I think most reasonable people would understand that – if it has somehow overwritten in my mind a more fleeting, opportunistic meeting, that’s just how it is.”

      Why imply incidental, why opportunistic?

      Perhaps the answers lie here in this from Craig Murray: “Geoff Aberdein, Alex Salmond’s former Chief of Staff testified under oath in the Salmond trial that he was contacted in mid-March by phone by Nicola Sturgeon’s office to discuss historic allegations against Alex Salmond, and was asked to a meeting with the First Minister on 29 March. Aberdein testified he was so concerned that he arranged a conference call with Kevin Pringle and Duncan Hamilton QC to discuss this.”

    78. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Laukat

      Struggling to understand the motive.. by this time AS was a peripheral figure.

      ‘2017 Terrible May calls a GE and wins. SNP campaign recognised as being particularly lacklustre under NS leadership.

      AS loses his seat.
      NS takes IndyRef2 off the table. Now is not the time. A marked difference in her attitude is seen. Not until the Terms of Brexit are Known becomes the mantra.

      The Brexit deadline time line is I think November 2018 ish – and all points to it being a No Deal Brexit, at which point Scotland Devolved parliament will be disbanded in all but name. No more Indy.

      Both Pete Wishart and Tommy Shepherd (Tommy did this in a public talk, as far as I can tell he was the first person to run this up the flagpole, since then he has kept his head down on this subject – his background is old/new labour) start to talk about ‘not until after Brexit and the hard effects are felt, should we go for IndyRef2’. PW is fully supported in this view by John Swinney.

      November 2017

      AS gets his own TV Show on RT. While the Yes movement is delighted at an evening up on the media inequality… the official SNP and NS – pursed lips all round.

      First Documentary ‘The Only Game In Town’ is aired on WOS.

      Jan 2018

      Sky News approaches the SNP re allegations of a sexual nature against AS. This may be the first complaint registered with Scot Gov against AS, or indeed the first complaint by employee may have been registered at this time, its not clear.

      Feb 2018 Murray Foote Resigns from DR

      March 2018

      Mid March Geoff Aberdein is contacted by NS aids to set up a meeting with her on 29th March – this is not mentioned in any way, or officially recorded (as far as we yet know) in NS evidence to the inquiry. GA can corroborate this contact, and has provided this information under oath at AS criminal trial.

      29th March 2018
      NS meets with Aberdein (who is in parliament to see former colleague) and is informed of AS issue – for the first time. Meeting takes place at Holyrood – and she later forgets the timing of this meeting possibly due to not being supposed to hold party meetings in this venue.
      Meeting and all those present is not officially recored in the FM’s diary. She lied to Scottish Parliament about when she was first made aware of the complaints.’

      Alex Salmond declared he would return to active politics. This time with his own TV show – and since RT had no problem with the mad hatter holding dual roles, its doubtful they would have stopped AS from doing the same.

      AS in the party, would not have allowed the complete lack of action on plan A, never mind a plan B to continue in the face of a threat of a no deal brexit, and he had all the clout of a big chunk of the SNP and the Yes Movement to enforce this.

      AS would not have countenanced the misappropriation of ring fenced funds, or indeed the late submission of lawfully required Account for same (IndRef2 fund).

      From a Brit Nat position, he absolutely had to be neutralised. From a NS point of view – if ring fenced funds have been embezzeled under her leadership – she stood to at the very least end her career in disgrace, if not jail.

      The motive may have been done Knowingly, or it may have been motivated by greed, and incompetence. In any event – it has tied up one of the Yes Movements biggest players for over 2 years, and split the movement into NS and hubby have to go, to We love NS – look at the Polls, Covid, Covid, look at the Polls, don’t ask awkward questions, look at the polls, don’t scare the horses (unless its about Covid) look at the Polls, I love Nicola.

    79. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Have just watched FMQs.

      What struck me was the shallowness of NS’s breathing when she was answering Ruth’s first question. You’d think she’d just come up a few flights of stairs.

      For someone with her experience of public speaking that is very very telling.

    80. The Dissident says:


      Folk seem to have very little idea how few seats would have to change hands for a Unionist Unity Government to become a credible possibility.

      A damaged Sturgeon leading the SNP and a SLab leader who would support Douglas Ross over Nicola Sturgeon is all it would take. Technically it could happen if the SNP lose as few as 5 seats.

    81. Colin Alexander says:

      But, it must be highlighted again,Sturgeon’s meeting did not take place at Bute House but at her office in the Scottish Parliament.

    82. Gary45% says:

      Bob Mack@4.27
      Did you think that one up yourself?
      My post at 3.50 would have made more sense if my earlier post at 3.48 wasn’t still awaiting moderation for some reason, it could be because the mirror is being held up?
      Obviously the powers at be don’t like it.
      WoS tick tock.

    83. James Che. says:

      Bob Mack, I took the statement that Rev posted up above ,they aren’t my thoughts or words,
      But it is interesting to note on here the psychology of direction of sturgeon has to go, while along side these are friendlier comments using first term names like Ruth and Boris,
      Perhaps tories enjoy this site more and more,
      Ruth, Boris = Sturgeon.

    84. laukat says:

      @Daisy Walker and @Bob Mack – thanks for the replies, both help fill in my lack of knowledge

      @Daisy Walker – I’ve seen the inferrence to the referendum cash not being ring fenced before (delayed accounts etc) but is there any evidence that it has been used for non-referendum purposes? If so do we know what they were spent on?

    85. Republicofscotland says:

      I wouldn’t hold my breath on this one you’ll probably get the Mike Reid treatment (Runaround).

      Anyway I watched Sturgeon on FMQ’s and although I can’t stand Ruth Davidson, she had Sturgeon nervously waffling back at her when confronted on the 29th March meeting, and a few other points that showed Sturgeon up for what she really is.

      Sturgeon had the audacity to say that she was open to scrutiny from the parliament and the people of Scotland at one point. Sturgeon kept repeating I’ll be honest and frank, (in not so many words) when the committee calls me to give evidence, but they haven’t called me yet.

      Not yet Nicola, not until they possess all the evidence that you’re currently trying to hide, then the hard questions will come to you.

    86. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood re FMQ’s

      Agreed. Her first half, when questioned by Truthless, was extremely fidgitie, very short sentences. Physically she shifted from side to side, normally she holds the space in a very solid like fashion and stands in one place and answers straight on.

      When she sat down for Ruth to ask more, she was looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

      She did however, rally for the second half, got hold of the ‘narrative’ and back on her ‘I’m single handedly fighting Covid, don’t you know’ high horse.

      If she’s going to rely on the Covid Project Fear to get her out of this hole, she’s on a sticky wicket. People are fed up of it. Rightly or wrongly.

    87. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Kapelmeister @ 4.08pm

      I think you nailed it there young man.

    88. Breeks says:

      Black Joan says:
      8 October, 2020 at 4:17 pm

      …..In the midst of it, once again, there’s still no hint of sympathy for Mr Salmond, just righteous remarks about the need to investigate criminality.

      Aye, I noticed that too. What further wrankles me is the implicit ‘belief’ that Alex Salmond was guilty of something, when we now know it was Salmond’s accusers who were orchestrating trouble and stirring shit which Alex Salmond would have to deal with… A now indisputable fact since confirmed by Murrell’s WhatsApp revelation.

      The conspiracy didn’t fail because the Scottish Government made mistakes. The conspiracy failed because it wasn’t true, and a jury saw right through it. Now whether you believe the bullshit of the “Me Too” going on in the background forcing Sturgeon to action, the bottom line is, whether by accident or design, the ‘bespoke’ complaint procedures cobbled together between Leslie Evans and Nicola Sturgeon, (which we also now know defied Westminster’s advice), led to the bogus and false nature of a conspiracy being undetected by such ‘procedures’, and worse, being allowed to proceed, with the conspirators extended all manner of protection, to the extent that an innocent man was actually disgraced, defamed as a sex offender, and put on trial facing imprisonment for events which didn’t even happen.

      If all of this bullshit wasn’t a deliberate and orchestrated conspiracy, then it was a mightily piss poor and discriminatory complaints procedure they’d managed to dream up, and which, judging by subsequent events, apparently deemed a complaint to be fully actionable while making no attempt to establish whether the said complaint was even true. Ask yourself whether any diligent and robust new complaint protocol could afford to be so profligate and reckless with the truth.

      Think of the heartache and humiliation Alex Salmond which Alex Salmond would never have had to endure, if the Complaints Process had sought to establish the truth and substance behind a complaint with any degree of rigour and professional detachment.

      Why any of these people are still in a job is a significant scandal in it’s own right.

    89. stonefree says:

      @ Colin Alexander at 4:36 pm

      I think the article refer to AS buying the Tea and biscuits
      I may be wrong but I think the Weirs were known on a personal level to AS for a good few years

    90. Oneliner says:

      Kapelmeister @ 4.08

      First you’d have to be flimsy to vote Unionist.

    91. Republicofscotland says:

      We need to find a way to get the material that was exposed to Salmond’s lawyers by the COPFS into the public domain, but the Lord Advocate isn’t having any of it.

      I don’t know, we need some sort of precedent or legal loophole, or similar, to try and force the Lord Advocates hand on the matter.

      The COPFS has acted in a disgraceful manner, the corruption is sickening.

      We really need Sturgeon and Murrell, and the Lord Advocate gone sooner than later.

    92. Daisy Walker says:

      Laukat says:
      8 October, 2020 at 5:04 pm
      @Daisy Walker – I’ve seen the inferrence to the referendum cash not being ring fenced before (delayed accounts etc) but is there any evidence that it has been used for non-referendum purposes? If so do we know what they were spent on?

      That the crowdfunded IndyRef2 moneys were Ring fenced, this aspect was printed on the crowdfunded page, specifically, it stated it would not be used to fund party elections campaigns. That bit is factually proven.

      That it got removed from the public when it had gained over £400,000 is also known.

      That the party has a legal requirement – not yet met, and now 10 months or so late – to publish accounts for this money is also known.

      Someone on one of this weeks articles, looked at the accounts/spending of the SNP from 2015 from an accountants perspective.

      Moneys spent in 2015 compared to moneys spent in 2017 (when Terrible May held her snap GE) increased by a sum of about £400,000 ish. The indyref2 fundraiser took place in 2016.

      In addition, there has been speculation on wages for top SNP staff, particularly NS’s husband Peter Murrell receiving a 6 figure annual salary, and just where have the funds come to support this type of wage.

      Many question, and such a simple way to stop them, by simply producing the accounts for a Ring Fenced fund that should be sitting in a bank account somewhere doing not very much. Not exactly a difficult paper exercise to produce, unless of course there has been wrong doing. Which is why – the legal requirement for a Political Party to publicly produce their accounts probably exists.

      Hope that helps.

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      You might just have triggered a word filter. One of my posts completely vanished the other day, though I just got on with things and built my case anyway. I can possibly understand the hurt you must be feeling, but there’s something not right in the functioning of our government, and I think we need to clear the air if we are going to survive Brexit. Hang in there.

      Btw, I’m pretty sure I know what’s wrong with our government. It, along with our judicial system and their legal practice, has been deformed and perverted by standing under Westminster’s unsubstantial claim to legal authority over Scotland. 😉


      There is ample law with which to protect Scotland from malfeasance in office and poor administration. The problem is our government and judicial system are the one’s who would need to respect the rule-of-law, and implement the necessary legislative reforms. Unfortunately for Scotland, our government offices have been deformed through subordination to Westminster, which considers itself above international law. And our law officers are doing all in their powers to ensure Scots law remains compatible with British constitutional law, which is unable to support public health and democracy. So we certainly have a very serious problem peeps.

      Scots will never enjoy the potential to access justice and the benefits of democracy, until we can bring our legal Establishment too heel, and force them to respect international human rights law. Rather than stand under and support Westminster’s insufficient claim to legal authority, and the populist, xenophobic and authoritarian English Torydum it now articulates to the world.

      Health and Human Rights


      This paper discusses the concept of the right to health in international human rights law. The phrase “right to health” is not a familiar one, although the Constitution of the World Health Organization and a number of international human rights treaties recognize the right to the “highest attainable standard” of health.

      The use of “right to health” terminology is discussed, and the language of international declarations and treaties referring to a right to health is cited. The author contends that approaching health issues through a rights perspective adds an important dimension to consideration of health

      The shorthand, “right to health “, emphasizes the link of health status to issues of dignity, non-discrimination, justice, and participation. The paper delineates the efforts of United Nations organs as well as human rights scholars
      and activists to develop the scope and obligations of the right to health.

      The relation of economic resources to its implementation is discussed. A section is devoted to the issue of the right to health in relation to women.

    94. stonefree says:

      @ laukat at 5:04 pm

      The detail should be in the Balance Sheet of the accounts,
      the accounts should be forwarded to all members.
      The problem is …they are not available and/or not produced/finished/signed off .To me it seems a bit strange in that the SNP don’t have a big personal about 20 people and it should not be hard to do a set of account.
      One wonders if it harder to hide than produce?

    95. holymacmoses says:

      Dr Whitford could take care of Covid and Joanna Cherry the day to day and the Independence movement . I’m sure Mr Salmond will be up for work and I’m equally sure lots of SNP MSPs will be delighted to feel part of the team again.

    96. Big Jock says:

      One thing is very clear to me.

      This is going to get very ugly very quickly. You can see that Sturgeon is already in full Tony Blair mode.

      Yet there is a very easy and dignified exit. Murrell resigns because he feels it’s time for a new CEO, and Sturgeon steps down with exhaustion and stress.

      People will be shocked, but Joe Public will understand her health reasons. It will blow over quickly and the new leader will excite everyone.

      If she chooses to stay, and every bit of sleaze is dragged out in public. Then hell mend her!

    97. samaradust says:

      NS seems to be choosing her words quite carefully here. It wasn’t an actual *meeting* it was an ‘encounter’. Almost as if she bumped into him in the passing.

    98. Dan says:

      @ holymacmoses at 5.29pm

      Sounds like a reasonable plan.
      I’ll drink to that but Big Jock will probably gie me grief for cracking a tinnie, even if I did mtb 15 miles today. It’s for rehydration purposes honest! 🙂

    99. Gary45% says:

      Cameron BB@5.29
      To be honest Cameron, I’m past the “even bothering stage”.
      All I’ll say is, 6 years ago I started reading/ promoting WoS.
      Used to try and get some No voting chums to follow Stu and the site. I was always berated for showing the “yoons” facts they couldn’t handle. I took plenty of abuse for my stance on believing WoS.
      Fast forward 6 years, they now like the site.(They are still and will always be no voters)
      Sums it up really.

    100. kapelmeister says:

      In the days of sail superstitious mariners would be wary of having a Jonah on board the vessel. A Jonah being anyone or anything regarded by the crew as bringing bad luck to the ship.

      The indy movement needs to be captained by a Joanna, not be misled by a Jonah.

      Tied to said Jonah is Millstone Murrell. These two will sink the independence cause given the chance.

    101. Big Jock says:

      Hey hey Dan..good on you. I’m not a pioneer btw. I like a pint or two. I just don’t live for the pub!

    102. Black Joan says:

      Breeks @5.14pm Exactly. You’d think that the official shielding of persons who appear to have cooked up a conspiracy (and lied under oath?) would constitute an attempt to pervert the course of justice which requires correction.

      In an “inclusive and transparent” Scotland (copyright SNP passim) why is the FM not the least concerned to expose diseased plotting that could easily have sent an innocent man to jail?

      Because she still believes the words of the “complainers”, the worst of whom were found by the jury, on the strength of powerful sworn witness statements, to be literally un-believable?

      The absence of any post-verdict statement of support for Mr Salmond is telling.

    103. Big Jock says:

      Kapel. Can you imagine wee Ruthie trying to take on Jo Cherry at FMQs?

      I would pay to watch that!

    104. Craig Holden says:

      You say: “Yet as recently as 31 July 2020, the Scottish Government was still insisting that no such meeting took place.” You them cite the Freedom Of Information response as proof. However, the FOI response only states that they did not hold any recorded information NOT that the meeting didn’t take place.

    105. kapelmeister says:

      Big Jock @5:57

      OMG! Not sure I could always watch it though. I wouldn’t want to feel sorry for Colonel Baroness.

    106. Ottomanboi says:

      The subtext of this suggests many Scots enjoy being pissed on from a great height by officialdom.
      It may well explain why the Scottish government, a collection of consummate sanctimonious piss artists, gets away with it.
      I do wonder if Scotland were an independent state, bearing the full economic cost, whether the case for locking down would be so eagerly promoted.
      MSP’s are flaunting blue poverty badges. What tragic irony given their craven complicity in enforcing measures likely to increase the condition.

    107. CameronB Brodie says:

      British nationalism is a pathological condition. The Rev.’s skills and the btl comments can only hope to make a dent in this, as yoonery rejects ethical reason and Natural law, so is unable to support democracy. Simples. 😉

      Yale Journal of Law & the Humanities, Volume 18 | Issue 2 Article 3,
      Author manuscript; available in PMC 2014 Oct 8.

      Toward a Theory of a Right to Health: Capability and Incompletely Theorized Agreements

    108. Robert Graham says:

      Over in La La Land the usual suspects are passing the comfort blanket and refusing to come to terms with reality , no adverse comments allowed so only one version of events is allowed ,

      Blissful bone headed ignorance is the only show in Town , excuses for everything this dedication to a lost cause is only matched by a belief in the Tooth Fairy closely followed by Bugs Bunny ,

      Yeh what’s up Doc ? .

      Because we know you lot are watching , lurking,passing tales from the Dark Side , it’s just like the Daily Mail , doing the Unionists work for them , and that MI5 agent who lives in England is going to cost us Independence ,

      Independence the word that can’t be said , if it’s not said then it will as easily be forgotten , when was the last time you heard a sustained daily effort to push for or even hint at Independence

    109. Stuart MacKay says:


      Since I brought it up, I bet the core of the conspiracy were after Salmond directly but the #metoo angle was used to rope in the rest of the alphabet gang without them really knowing the true purpose of the prosecution. That would be ideal as they could deliver their tear-stained testimony in court with the full knowledge they were doing the right thing to take down a hideous monster. If they were all in it from the start I doubt the conspiracy would have held together.

      But then again, as you say, maybe it’s all bullshit. I can’t wait to hear what they say at each others trials.

    110. Big Jock says:

      Otto- I doubt closing pubs will make the slightest bit of difference to the R rate.

      I think it’s a buying time strategy before full lockdown in November.

      Mind you, can Sturgeon hang on that long?

    111. Dan says:

      @ Gary45%

      This Indy lark was never going to be easy.
      As an activist you can’t campaign solely on the grievances of being in the union and enduring policies we don’t want and endemic corruption.
      Highlighting the positives aspects of Scotland returning to an independent country in full control of its destiny would be much easier if the political party we are trying to promote to the electorate as being better suited to our needs, and more competent, were not behaving in the same way as the ones we want to jettison.

    112. CameronB Brodie says:

      There’s a reply to you stuck in moderation @6:05pm, with a link pointing to the relationship between the Right to Health and international law. I may have triggered a word filter, though I might just have reached my link ‘threshold’ for the day. 🙂

    113. Lenny Hartley says:

      Republicofscotland Its simples, the courts influence is only Scotland.

    114. susanXX says:

      I remain an Indy supporter with or without ( seems likely) the SNP. We need more Indy parties, covering the breadth of politics. I would consider myself centre-left but unlike some I don’t consider centre-right to be evil.

    115. Papko says:

      @Gary %

      “I took plenty of abuse for my stance on believing WoS.
      Fast forward 6 years, they now like the site.(They are still and will always be no voters)
      Sums it up really.”

      Very well said, that sums it up.

      The current scandal enveloping the SNP does not mean much to the “no” voters.
      They don’t like Salmond much anyway, but they do take to Nicola, primarily because she is governing with equanimity.

    116. holymacmoses says:

      This afternoon Nicola Sturgeon said in Holyrood:

      “It may suit some people to say this is all a great conspiracy I’m not sure why anybody still in possession of their own critical faculties would see this as anything other than complaints being investigated and everybody trying to do the right thing…”

      Is she totally unaware of the fact that she is being accused of lying to Parliament?

      Who are ‘everybody’?

      At the time referred to (March/April) there were two complainants and one of them had been dealt with ‘in house’ and accepted an apology.

      Is Nicola Sturgeon implying that anyone who questions her must be devoid of their critical faculties?

      I again go back to motive.

      ‘Why would she have attacked Mr Salmond?”

      25th March 2018 The Herald: Paul Hutcheon: Headline:

      “Rumours abound of moves against the House of Sturgeon”

      She thought (or knew) that she was under attack and decided on a course of ‘defence’. It had been planned, one suspects, since Mr Salmond lost his seat. The SNP results in that area had been extraordinary and I still maintain bear some scrutiny.

    117. twathater says:

      I’ll say this again for the HARD of thinking, when or if we are allowed to vote in May 2021 and we vote for the SNP and NS we are going to elect the twittler youth stormtroopers for AT LEAST 4 years, so what are the plans to STOP GRA and HCB when we can’t even influence ANYTHING currently taking place

      And with the libdums, greens and liebour ALL currently just as wokeist aligned with the twittler youth Scottish women will become a threatened species, sometimes I’m glad I’m 69 and happily married ( I am honestly)

      Sturgeon and her twittler youth brigade have to GO we have a NORMAL COUNTRY TO REBUILD

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just to male myself understood, I’m not one who consider the center-right to be evil, though the center-right is now a minor voice in British politics. The radical right, or “New Right”, began their takeover of Conservative thinking under Thatcher and Reagan. Those cats weren’t Conservative, they were the revolutionary vanguard of radical right-wing neo-liberal and neo-conservative extremism. So I’m not hostile to [c]onservatives or even Conservatives, only towards the New Right, who are enemies of democracy and culture.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      MAKE not male myself….sorry.

    120. Lochside says:

      I said it before…to go after Salmond, not once, but twice, indicates bone-headed stupidity and malice. He already was a busted flush. But the input of the Brit Deep State is written all over the legal and police involvement manipulating the vain and stupid SNP leadership.

      Would any committed Scottish Nationalist Leader accept an Evans foisted on to them? Would they recruit author/publisher of the ‘Vow’ as a P.R. consultant? Would they push through abhorrent flawed legislation, which was an anathema to the general public in the face of the last push for Independence?

      And finally would they block all moves political and Sovereign based to assert Scotland’s legal right to remain in the EU Union and to dissolve the UK union?

      The answer time and again , is a resounding ‘NO’! But despite this, now we are faced with as a consequence of this insane narrative, a mortally wounded movement dying inches from the finishing line, brought down, apparently,by hubris and personal vendettas aided and abetted by our biggest Enemy: England.

      Poor Scotia…ever betrayed by its leaders.

    121. Big Jock says:

      Twathather- These people think they can also just remove Sturgeon in 2021, if she doesn’t deliver.

      Well I am afraid that is very naive. You can’t give a leader a 4 year mandate , endorse her and then ask her to leave!

      If we give Nicola another term, then Indy is dead. Too much damage will be done by WM. They are already 10% through with the deconstruction of Scotland.

      I am afraid Nicola is passed her sell by date. We need a good clear out.

    122. Mac says:


      The fact they made their new complaints process retrospective against Westminster advice really says it all. That was an obvious opportunity to just snuff this bollocks out and instead they did the exact opposite.

      This entire attempted framing of Alex Salmond was entirely constructed by the SNP leadership.

      It would never have happened under a labour or Tory Scottish government.

      Team Nicola made this entire thing out of nothing.

      They created a completely avoidable disaster for the independence movement when instead they should have been making hay during BREXIT.

      This in itself is so damning it is unbelievable.

      None of what happened to AS would have happened unless it was Team Nicola in charge.

    123. susanXX says:

      Big Jock@6:46pm. Yes she and all the woke cabal need to go BEFORE the HR election. Thoroughly ascientific and poisonous.

    124. Rm says:

      It’s looking more and more like we need another Independence Party, starting with the list vote might be a start, what a mess with this virus it fairly came at the wrong time for lots of reasons, but it still won’t stop westminster taking the piss out of Scotland.

    125. tartanfever says:


      ‘I do wonder if Scotland were an independent state, bearing the full economic cost, whether the case for locking down would be so eagerly promoted.’

      What makes you think we aren’t bearing the full economic cost?

    126. A Person says:


      You forgot to mention, that she employs as an economic adviser the Duke of Buccleuch’s right-hand man. The duke being the largest landowner in Europe, the Queen’s godson, and the owner of, allegedly, the finest private art and jewel collection in the world- all of it inherited.

    127. A Person says:


      To an extent I understand what you are saying about Sturgeon’s appeal to No voters, although if I’m not mistaken this site has produced statistics showing the difference is really negligible. However, the SNP’s job is to deliver independence. If people vote SNP because “Oor Nicola’s doing a grand job”, then proceed to vote No to Indy, what’s the point? How good is permanent SNP devolved rule?

    128. Craig Murray says:

      Daisy Walker,

      The reason you are struggling with motive is you have accepted in your timeline that on 29 March Geoff Aberdein informed Nicola of the allegations against alex for the first time.

      That is one of Nicola’s fibs. It is untrue because, when Liz Lloyd contacted aberdein to set up the meeting weeks earlier, Lloyd told him it was about allegations against Alex Salmond.

      The truth is that Nicola knew of the allegations even earlier, when the new policy was being set up by Nicola and Evans specifically to “get” Alex. Trying to hide that, she chose her meeting with Alex on 3 April as a plausible alternative explanation (aka lie) for when she first knew.

      The Aberdein testimony at the Salmond trial exploded that lie.

    129. cynicalHighlander says:

      Oh gawd I thought Trump was delusional but this.

    130. G H Graham says:

      I can’t be the only one to conclude that Sturgeon is rubbish at lying.

      There are so many body language tells …

      * can’t look at the questioner in the eye
      * rapid hand movements
      * fidgeting
      * rapid, short breathing
      * looking elsewhere for subconscious, emotional support
      * frequent attempts to re-frame the discussion, most commonly around Covid ( no wonder she embraces those daily podium sessions)
      * overuse of phrases such as “to be honest”, “I’m happy to answer questions” etc.

      I would happily pay a body language expert to study a few of her more miserable FMQs & explain what they think she is actually doing instead of her telling us the opposite.

    131. Beaker says:

      @Daisy Walker says:
      8 October, 2020 at 5:09 pm
      “If she’s going to rely on the Covid Project Fear to get her out of this hole, she’s on a sticky wicket. People are fed up of it. Rightly or wrongly.”

      Just watched it myself. Talk about the look of someone who wants to be elsewhere. Reminded of me at school sitting outside the office of the head of middle school, desperately thinking up excuses. Best arse kicking I ever got.

      The Committee meeting could be interesting, with much depending on how Linda Faniani conducts the proceedings.

    132. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Black Joan and Breeks: I think we should always remember Nicola Sturgeon’s words on Alex Salmond’s acquittal:

      [Hope this works]

      You could hardly get a more through-gritted-teeth and grudging reaction. Instead, she should have sacked all those around her who had conspired in vain against Salmond, apologised for his dreadful ordeal and magnanimously accepted him back into the party, if he so wished.

      I thought her statement on 31/01/20 was the nadir of her time in office, until she came away with that pile of crapola.

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      We’re certainly not going to get over Brexit while standing under Westminster, which is now openly hostile to international law and order, so is unable to support public health and democracy.

      Brexit removes Scots further from the potential to access their human rights, and is simply not compatible with democratic constitutional practice. Yet our legal Establishment is “ambivalent”.


      Health Policy and Planning, Volume 32, Issue 9, November 2017, Pages 1337–1344
      Institutional analysis of health system governance

    134. Effijy says:

      Just in and checking to see if BBC Scotland it Scottish Independent TV
      we’re showing Scottish Football’s biggest match in over 20 years?

      The consistency is first class as they don’t give a damn about the match,
      However you can see a friendly inconsequential England National game
      against Wales.

      We get all of English men’s games, Women, Youth and anything else they have that could kick a ball.

      Sickening we are Living in a Sovereign country controlled by abusive and disrespectful neighbours?

    135. Skip_NC says:

      Laukat @ 5:04pm, with a complete lack of modesty, I offer up my post at 6:24pm on October 5th, here:

      I am not a qualified accountant, either in the UK or the USA but I have worked in public accounting for thirty years. My analysis of the accounts is only a starting point and it needs someone to ask some tough questions.

    136. Hatuey says:

      Yes, Daisy, what Craig Murray says you can take as read; “Nicola knew of the allegations even earlier, when the new policy was being set up by Nicola and Evans specifically to “get” Alex.

      Which chimes with what I suggested earlier;

      “For all we know she (Sturgeon) knew about the allegations the second they were made, or even before that(!), whenever that was, and as it stands nobody anywhere can rule out a conspiracy that predates all of this…”

      Everything points to a conspiracy that was triggered in the late summer of 2017. In terms of motive, I suspect (but don’t know) that there were some differences about how the General Election campaign that year had been managed and Nicola’s subsequent decision to put indyref2 on hold.

      You can safely assume that the British Government knew about this and supported it too.

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….We’re certainly not going to get over covid-19…. Though a hard-covid Brexit is the stuff of nightmares, and certainly grounds for Scotland’s self-governance. Brexit indicates Westminster no longer feels bound by the Common law, yet it seeks to compel Scotland’s future through the British constitution, which is a political agreement articulated through the Common law. So I hope folk are waking up to the state of fascism they live in.

      Good Governance: The Inflation of an Idea
      Faculty Research Working Paper Series

    138. Liz says:

      Damage limitation on twitter by the Sturgeonites.

      Trying to brush it all under the carpet. One even went as far as to say she was covering for Aberdein.

      These people are either staffers or worshipers

    139. A Person says:


      Weirdly, the hostility shown by so many in our movement to this cleansing of this particular Augean Stable reminds me of the attitude shown by many of our erstwhile opponents to criticism of the royal family.

      A faint look into their family history shows that the House of Windsor have a seriously nasty pastime. The avalanche of well-supported rumours about Louis Mountbatten, Charles’ friendship with Saville, Andrew’s with Epstein…I mean, unless you had the IQ of a vegetable the conclusion is not difficult to draw. I mean, Jesus Christ, imagine having two brothers, each of whom were friends with the two most notorious paedophiles probably of all time.

      Yet tell some unionists (my otherwise savvy dear old mum among them) this and they. Just. Can’t. Handle. It. They fly off the handle and attack the messenger and their faith in this family comes out even stronger. Because they have always placed this family on a pedestal and to admit what is so plainly in front of them would be so painful and would involve the repudiation of what they hold dear and would necessitate admitting both their own gullibility and their willingness to be deceived that it would be horrendously painful.

      It’s the same with NS. I used to rather admire her, yes, but, due to whatever emotional strength or deficiency within me, never at any point felt the need to **love** her. She’s a politician, I’ve never my her, of course she has flaws. I’ll stick to loving my family and friends. I’ve judged her by her actions and I’ve been following this story and the conclusion about what she’s done is to my mind utterly inescapable- equally, it not actually more, plain than the obvious conclusion about the royals. I- and you and the many others who frequent this site- can obviously handle that. “Oh well, I certainly misjudged her”. For many others, that would hurt too much. Much easier to squeal “how can you attack our amazing First Minister”.

    140. A Person says:

      *Met her

    141. Bob Mack says:

      My sticking point is this. People on social media tell me to put all this to one side because Nicola has turned the polls around for Independence. That’s fine.

      So what has Nicola said she is going to do with that support?
      She witters about “draft” Bill in Holyrood for a referendum.

      Yes another draft Bill, which means nothing. I suspect that draft Bill will demand a section 30. We end up running on the spot yet again.

      I am beginning to suspect aside from all the other chaos that they do not know how to move Independence forward by one inch before it’s too late. Time factors dictate we need an inventive and accomplished leader who will seriously look at all routes to Indy. That is not Nicola Sturgeon, who has publicly hung her coat on the section 30 peg. Out of ideas.Out of time.Hopefully out of office.

      Popularity and a lead in the opinion polls is an empty vessel unless to can use it to get what you want. Nicola can’t.

      It’s as basic as that

    142. A Person says:

      -Bob Mack-

      Spot on, and very eloquently put.

    143. cynicalHighlander says:

      She is not the Snake Oil salesperson she is the Snake would be my interpretation of Sturgeon.

    144. holymacmoses says:

      The speech in October 2017 tells us all we need to know.
      In that speech she commits the SNP to be a party working within the UK.

      “We don’t have the power to guarantee these rights ourselves. I wish that we did.
      But we will act where we can.”

      She spoke about the death of Gordon Wilson who famously said ‘There’ll be no parties within parties” at a speech in Ayr’ and who Mr Salmond succeeded – but no mention made of that.

      She reels off all the successes of the SNP since 2010 without once mentioning the man who laid the foundation for it all.

      “We can do all these things because we are in government.
      We can make a difference every day – with decisions that benefit this and future generations.
      The greatest responsibility of all that we owe to the next generation is to protect the planet.
      In 2009, we passed world leading climate change targets and we met them”

      She takes all successes to herself.

      There has subsequently been more than one opportunity for Scotland to grasp the bull by the horns BUT clearly Ms Sturgeon wishes to run ‘HER’ government in ‘HER’ way. That way has nothing to do with Scottish independence – she might lose power were she to go for that. She is part of the ‘woke’ folk: selfish, self-centred and greedy .

      No wonder Alex Salmond saw red. All his hard work being lain at the Altar of Nicola Sturgeon personal ambition.

      Here’s the whole speech

    145. Bob Mack says:

      Add to the above we have the usual myth that the Prime Minister will have to bow to Democracy because it would be seen as unacceptable for him to ignore the wishes of Scotland.

      Now isn’t that funny. It’s like tying your surfboard to Moby Dick . How long have the wishes of Scotland been ignored already? The SNP talk of the power grab which the Internal Market Bill most certainly is. We have had Brexit thrust upon us despite 62% of Scots voting against it.

      Yet Boris will apparently have to listen to Democratic wishes
      of Scotland’people. We have asked for a section 30 and been democratically told NO by two Prime Ministers now.

      Trying to keep the people happy and yourself in positions of power is a delicate balance. Eventually the scales will tip one way or the other.

      I’m afraid the scales are very in favour of Johnson just now because we have dismally failed to add anything to offset what he has done. I exclude the actions of Ms Cherry in that regard. At least she tried. And she won.

    146. holymacmoses says:

      “It’s like tying your surfboard to Moby Dick”

      I like that Mr Mack:-)

      However maybe we can get HOME FREE in ‘Queequeg Sturgeon’s coffin

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      The FM is certainly not WOKE, or else natal women in Scotland would not face the science-denying threat of the GRA amendments, which are guaranteed to undermine the safety and social inclusion of natal women and children. Scotland wouldn’t be getting forcefully removed from the EU either.

      The FM is a product of the British justice system, which is completely dysfunctional. This, along with a profound parochialism ensures the FM is unlikely to poses the skills, the will, or the political acumen to defend Scotland’s democracy from Britain’s dysfunctional judicial and political systems. It is also perhaps why she’s the FM and the NEC so unfit for purpose. Just a (post-colonial) thought. 😉

      The Journal of Law, Medicine & Ethics: a Journal of the American Society of Law, Medicine & Ethics, 01 Jan 2012, 40(1):85-98
      Public health ethics theory: review and path to convergence.

    148. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Look on the bright side.Scotland managed a draw in 90 mins.Only another 10 mins e/w before the ultimate cliffhanger of penalties.

      Where have all the glory days gone! Lol

    149. Alf Baird says:

      Bob Mack

      Ms Cherry (and others) may have ‘won’ in relation to the matter of Westminster ‘sovereignty’ but what interests me is Scottish sovereignty and that is arguably the only thing that should matter to Scottish nationalists or anyone seeking Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK union. Arguably Ms Cherry changed nothing in relation to Scotland’s ongoing constitutional predicament.

      I would rather see the democratically elected majority of Scotland’s Westminster MPs, all supposedly ‘nationalists’, assert Scottish sovereignty now, as is their lawful right. Lets see any court pick the bones out of that.

    150. Daisy Walker says:

      @Craig Murray says:
      8 October, 2020 at 7:27 pm
      Daisy Walker,

      The reason you are struggling with motive is you have accepted in your timeline that on 29 March Geoff Aberdein informed Nicola of the allegations against alex for the first time.

      That is one of Nicola’s fibs. It is untrue because, when Liz Lloyd contacted aberdein to set up the meeting weeks earlier, Lloyd told him it was about allegations against Alex Salmond.’

      Thanks Craig, I wouldn’t say ‘I’ve accepted’ anything, but I admit the timeline I’ve put forward is very rough and not complete.

      When / where did WM put through the policy for the 3000 civil servants to be moved into Edinburgh. From a timeline perspective, it would be good to know. Can you shed any light on that.

      With what you say Re GA being contacted in mid March 2018 to set up the 29/3/18 meeting with NS – is it your educated guess that even at that stage they knew they were not going to enter that meeting onto any of the logs? As apposed to my guess that it has been deliberately removed after?

      OT just watched Hunger over on Netflix. Re Bobby Sands. What a powerful film. Worth watching for anyone who still believes Boris and co, will ‘do the decent thing’ re democracy.

    151. Bob Mack says:

      @Alf Baird,

      You choose failure over triumph. Me Cherry in case you never noticed got Westminster back in session because prorogation by decree was unlawful in Scotland.

      Did you see Nicola at that case? Blackford? None of them?

      Ms Cherry was making a very important point about powers of Scots Law to Westminster and they had to reconvene because of it. It might have meant little to you but in legal circles it was very important ‘re the relationship between Westminster and Holyrood.

      So do not even attempt to downplay it my friend.

    152. Graeme says:

      @ Daisy

      Did you mention in your timeline the removal of any reference to Alex on the official SNP website ?

    153. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Bob Mack ‘I am beginning to suspect aside from all the other chaos that they do not know how to move Independence forward by one inch before it’s too late. Time factors dictate we need an inventive and accomplished leader who will seriously look at all routes to Indy. That is not Nicola Sturgeon, who has publicly hung her coat on the section 30 peg. Out of ideas.Out of time.Hopefully out of office.

      Popularity and a lead in the opinion polls is an empty vessel unless to can use it to get what you want. Nicola can’t.

      It’s as basic as that’

      Well said Bob, re, ‘they do not know how to move Independence forward by one inch before it’s too late. ‘

      Oh I think they do, they were shown very enthusiastically and inventively, during IndyRef1 by the Yes movement, how to do it. WBB’s comes to mind immediately.

      It is not that they don’t want to, it is that their leaders are determined to ensure we cannot vote (one way or another) to achieve it. Like New Labour triagulating labour to death – so there was no longer a choice.

      Firstly you bypass the media, and disabuse all of its lies, immediately and with humour.
      Secondly you set the agenda.
      Thirdly – you give the electorate ownership, with real changes to be won.

      Currently, we are out of time now, for IndyRef2 before May 2021. The EC 9 month rule has kicked that into the long grass.

      Holyrood 2021 now HAS to be a plebiscite election. After that Holyrood is toast and so’s our chances.

      And that means campaigning now, and getting our electorate up to speed about what is at stake, and getting support for Indy over 60% by years end.

      It will have to be done Covid safe manner, which means posters, billboards, infographics and safe leafleting. (All of which should have been happening on a rolling program by the SNP immediately after 2014).

    154. Daisy Walker says:

      @Graeme says:
      8 October, 2020 at 9:55 pm
      @ Daisy

      Did you mention in your timeline the removal of any reference to Alex on the official SNP website ?’

      Sorry no I didn’t. I had a quick look through WoS archives to get a rough guide of what was going on in the background so to speak, at the same time as the major dates in the AS Scandal.

      It is not comprehensive. Sorry. Do you know the date, and I’ll add it, and if people don’t mind I’ll keep putting it up. If people find its of assistance.

    155. Lochside says:

      Alf Baird… right as ever. Until the representatives of what remains of our Sovereignty at Westminster actually assert it and formally dissolve this travesty of a Union, S30s and Plan B-Z mean zilch. And we all know now that will never happen.. just ask ‘Forward as One’

      The talking shop at Holyrood will soon be formally reduced to a place for showroom dummies..overshadowed by new ‘Scottish Office’ which ‘oven ready’ to eclipse Devolution for ever and put us ‘back in the box.’

    156. Alf Baird says:

      @ Bob Mack

      I’m not interested in Westminster.

      If ‘Scots Law’ really has any ‘power’ then lets see it affirm that a) Scottish sovereignty exists and b) that Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives may assert that Scottish sovereignty.

    157. holymacmoses says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      8 October, 2020 at 9:38 pm
      The FM is certainly not WOKE,

      Haha – no she’s not very awake, I agree:-)

    158. holymacmoses says:

      Daisy Walker

      Your timeline’s really good Daisy and it would be great were you to update it with stuff as it occurs

    159. Graeme says:

      It is not comprehensive. Sorry. Do you know the date, and I’ll add it, and if people don’t mind I’ll keep putting it up. If people find its of assistance.


      Sorry Daisy I don’t I assume it was soon after the first allegations were made but I’m not sure, I only mentioned it because I think it’s significant in the whole series of events that’s led to where we are now

    160. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Penalties it is then.

    161. Alf Baird says:

      @ Lochside

      Dead right, We are being played for mugs, our national elected politicians actually believe we are nae mair than England’s daeless wee colony, tae dae whit we’re telt. And all the time we hold our own sovereignty and its left lying dormant in Scotland’s MP’s pockets. And its still sitting there dormant after three successive nationalist majorities!

      How many nationalist majorities does it take to make Scotland independent! In maist ither colonies it wis ane!

    162. Bob Mack says:

      @Alf Baird,

      It’s enough that Westminster are interested in us. That’s the issue.

      It has taken a crowdfunder0 to allow Martin Keatings to challenge this very issue in court and he is being interfered with all the way by the Scottish Government.

      Why would they not be doing this for the people of Scotland themselves? Guess?

    163. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Yass,. Scotland win on penalties!a!

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      holymacmoses 🙂

    165. Lothianlad says:

      Scotland win on penalties.

      If only we had our own media see it on TV.

    166. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Ah but lothianlad it was on telly.It was on in the Westminster cabinet office!

      Gove was cheering for Israel yi ken

    167. Skip_NC says:

      Completely off-topic but the only way I could keep up with the game was on the BBC website (behave at the back). Bloody awful. First penalty was on the “Live” page, then nothing until it pops up that we’ve won. Except they said we’d won 4-2 and now they say it’s 5-3. Both results are, of course, believable (mathematically at least).

      As a referee, I supervised numerous shoot-outs over twenty years. They have plenty of time to update the website to keep informed those of us who cannot watch or listen to the game. It’s easily a minute per kick. Is this the best the BBC can do for Scottish football?

    168. Bob Mack says:

      I have come to the conclusion that politicians of all hues including the SNP high echelons do not like the concept of a sovereign people rather than a ruling elite.
      It would make governance difficult as we have seen with the Hate crime and GRA.

      Including reforms that were outwith Pzrty manifesto would leave you open to challenge on the will of the people, by anybody who chose to do so.

      It would not suit many politicians to keep asking the people before introducing and passing controversial legislation.

      Just a thought.

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      Want a peek at just how dysfunctional Brexitaina is, and just how much contempt Westminster has for Scotland? Remember, democracy, the rule-of-law, and the right to health, can’t be separated and remain functional. Yet Scotland’s legal identity is to be expunged from British constitutional consciousness, and our legal Establishment remain “ambivalent”. 🙁


      Governance for Growth, Stability and Inclusive Development

      Foreword from the Secretary of State

      The United Kingdom stands for freedom, democracy, co-operation, the rule of law and human rights. We hold these values not just because they are right, but because open and free societies everywhere are critical to ending poverty and are firmly in all our interests. Open societies are the means to deliver long-term growth, stability and inclusion, and to counter corruption, violence and repression….

    170. Lothianlad says:

      Ayrshire rob. Lol.

      Dont ye just hate the BBC!!!

    171. Big Jock says:

      It’s a disgrace,that our so called national broadcaster. Can’t stump up our money to pay for the national games on TV.

      Particularly when there are no fans allowed in the stadium.

      Well done Scotland. You played like shite, but got through in the end.

    172. AberdeenPict says:

      cynicalHighlander says:
      8 October, 2020 at 10:35 pm
      For those interested.

      CynicalHighlander, your link mentions the rule of law. If only we had a resident person on this site who could interpolate such an article involving the rule of law! 🙂

    173. Lothianlad says:

      Can anyone confirm where we play serbia in the “final”. Still cant find out online where or how the venue is decided.

    174. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Skip nc

      Scotland were first up for penalties.
      We scored.Israel missed the their first.So as long as we keep scoring to fifth we win. Israel scored there next 3 ,thus 5-3 no need for Israel to take last penalty as we had won.

    175. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m far too rusty to try that sort of fancy shenanigans, though I was always pretty shit-hot on ma theory. 🙂

      Government at a Glance, 2013 © OECD 2013
      Chapter 1
      Trust in government,
      policy effectiveness
      and the governance agenda

    176. Big Jock says:

      Serbia game venue not decided. 12 November fixture.

    177. Lothianlad says:

      Thanks big jock.

    178. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


      Yes we play Serbia after the beat Norway

    179. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      I wiz just wondering if we could just substitute the Scotland team with 11 Celtic players or sumit for the Serbia game. If they wear masks naebdy wid ken.

    180. Lothianlad says:

      So when we play serbia, will it be in Scotland or serbia. Will it be a single match or a home and away fixture?

    181. Alf Baird says:

      @ Bob Mack

      Westminster isnae interestet in us.

      Keatings is wasting his time; a referendum is something Scotland neither needs, nor will get.

      The way to end the union has never changed, its the same way it was begun, by a majority of Scotland’s MP’s.

    182. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Play off
      One game I think,all the way to penalties.. Very rare you see 2 legs now.They want to end the pain early.

    183. Skip_NC says:

      Ayrshire Rob, yes I figured that out after the BBC posted the correct final result. However, they initially said that Scotland had won 4-2, which would have been the result if Israel had missed their fourth kick. After the first kick, there was no update on each penalty until it was all over. I know the BBC can do better because the live text commentary when the women’s team qualified for the World Cup was pretty good.

      The time difference means that midweek matches are on early afternoon here. I am in a shared office building with 59 other tenants. The ability to stream video is restricted. Besides, I do need to do some tax returns!

    184. ElGordo says:

      AYRSHIRE ROB says: 8 October, 2020 at 9:42 pm

      Only another 10 mins e/w before the ultimate cliffhanger of penalties.


      Big football fan eh?

    185. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s what happens when you put theory into practice, btl anyway. If only Scotland’s legal and political systems were not deformed through standing under Westminster, which has chosen to legally empower populist, and constitutionally unsubstantiated, dogmatic, Tory majoritarianism. Which is unable to support public health or democracy, 🙁


    186. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Skip nc .

      Use or pretty fast live updates. Gives you the drama of who scored,who missed pretty instantly. Still will be few secs behind bookie sites though as they’ll have fastest updates on all games worldwide so they don’t get scalped.

    187. ElGordo says:


      Does it also tell you how many minutes there are in 30 minutes of extra time?

    188. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


      Yes.Mad for it. Been to 2 world cups in Genoa and Bourdoux .They were the best weekends of my life they were,i tell you. We only last the weekend normally. Lol

    189. Colin Alexander says:

      Why did Sturgeons team want to meet with Alex’s team? Why choose the most high profile place to do it? If they think they have Alex already? Did Sturgeons team think something would be said that could be used against Alex or what?

    190. AYRSHIRE ROB says:



    191. ElGordo says:


      Have you been watching re-runs of brass eye again?

    192. CameronB Brodie says:

      I can do this all day, as I’m trained to support public health and democracy. I wish we had a legal Establishment that was capable of caring about either. Their “ambivalence” is telling, as is their legal inability to support international human rights law, or defend Scotland’s democracy. ;(

      Health Affairs, Vol. 21, No. 2: The Determinants Of Health
      Socioeconomic Disparities In Health: Pathways And Policies


      Socioeconomic status (SES) underlies three major determinants of health: health care, environmental exposure, and health behavior. In addition, chronic stress associated with lower SES may also increase morbidity and mortality.

      Reducing SES disparities in health will require policy initiatives addressing the components of socioeconomic status (income, education, and occupation) as well as the pathways by which these affect health. Lessons for U.S. policy approaches are taken from the Acheson Commission in England, which was charged with reducing health disparities in that country.

      Education, Socioeconomic status, Mortality, Health disparities, Children’s health, Access to care, Stress, Smoking, Diseases, Taxes

    193. Al-Stuart says:

      Rev Stu + Craig Murray,

      Hatuey made an interesting post which infers, rightly imho, that there may be independent evidence (or not) that the current First Minister is lying (or not).

      Simply put, a complaint should be submitted to Police Scotland in the matter of numerous alleged statutory infractions by Nicola Sturgeon.

      Right now, the police should be examining the telephone records of the relevant parties/organisation’s. Focussing 6 weeks either side of the FIRST date to which this thread’s FOI request refers to and covering all landlines and mobile telecoms to which each had access circa March 2018.

      The Bute House shredding machines can only reach so far.

      If, as Hatuey infers, Geoff Aberdein’s telephones either received or dialled numbers where Nicola Sturgeon left electronic fingerprints, then that is hard, actionable evidence that should, in and of itself, lead to other more compelling evidence.

      Anent the Police Scotland officers who instigated in the witch hunt under the perverted direction (of the course of justice) directed by self-confessed witches Whatsapper Peter Murrell, little will happen until senior police officers start distancing themselves from the Alex Salmond witch-hunt in favour of their careers.

      I suspect certain police officers will already be in the line of sight for “interview under caution” by Police Scotland’s professional standards rubber heal squad (AC12 to followers of Martin Compston).

      Stu + Craig, keep on digging.

      Craig, one way to secure proper justice is a CLEAROUT of those tainted by the Sturgeon time I office.

      Much of the justice to come will depend who has their hands on the levers of power.

      If the Sturgeon McWoke Cabal is re-elected in May 2021, Scotland as a free country is finished. Forget about Independence, Old Nicola + Murrell and Boris have far worse I store: the Hate Crime and GRA will hand their government the right to close down internet sites and send their owners to prison.

      Conversely, if Joanna Cherry, Kenny MacAskill or Alex Salmond becomes First Minister, then the Murrells will go the way of disgraced MPs who were booted out after the Westminster Expenses Scandal.

      Most importantly with a new First Minister from a may 2021, Scotland will be free.

      Free of Westminster rule.

      Free of Sturgeon duplicity and IndyBlocking.

      Free of the amcWoke infestation and Orwellian laws.


      Earlier post for ease of reference…

      Hatuey says:
      8 October, 2020 at 1:23 pm
      Well, again, according to Craig Murray who was present at the Salmond trial this year, Aberdein said under oath that Sturgeon’s people had contacted him by phone in “mid-March” (2018) regarding historic allegations made against Salmond.

      To my mind that means we can dispense with this idea as an excuse or explanation; “if the meeting had concerned party business rather than government business (and therefore not been required to be recorded) it would of course have been in contravention of the Ministerial Code to hold it in the First Minister’s office.” (Wings, above)

      I’m not talking about meetings in Government offices here. I’m talking about phone calls made to Aberdein as early as mid-March.

      Nothing above or anywhere explains why Sturgeon would mislead us on this. So, why would she?

      Worst case scenario, she could have explained that one of her aids mistakenly used a Government phone to deal with party-related business. Big deal.

      But she didn’t do that: she chose instead to “forget” previous contact with Aberdein and mislead us on the question of when she first heard about the formal allegations being made.

      If you rule out forgetfulness – and we should – then she did mislead us. Why?

      If it’s not true that she found out about the allegations in April, as she originally intimated (and now admits was untrue), why should we assume anything she says is true?

      For all we know she knew about the allegations the second they were made, or even before that(!), whenever that was, and as it stands nobody anywhere can rule out a conspiracy that predates all of this.

      We simply need more information.

    194. MaggieC says:

      LothianLad @ 11.16 pm

      If you scroll back to 11.08 pm on the link below we’re away to Serbia next but it doesn’t say what stadium in Serbia the game will be played in yet , I was also reading the live feed on the bbc for the first 90 mins and then listened to the radio for the last 30 mins and the penalties . Well done Scotland tonight .

    195. ElGordo says:

      @Ayrshire Rob

      Is that the nickname they gave you in school in ayrshire Rob?

      Shortened the Robert to Rob did they?

      Did they aye.

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      I do like “McWoke”, as it conveys the ‘short-bread tin’ authenticity of our government’s gender addenda. 😉

    197. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      @ ElGordo

      I don’t know is it? You could always meet in the green I’ll know you.You’ll be ‘the fat one’


    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s what our legal Establishment have pretty much ensured Scotland will never benefit from. 🙁

      Good governance for sustainable

    199. Hatuey says:

      Al-Stuart, all of the significant information that my comment hinged on and referenced came from Craig Murray’s latest blog article: “Either Nicola Sturgeon or Geoff Aberdein is Lying on Oath – and Proving Which Will Be Easy”

      I trust Craig Murray 100% and know he isn’t ever careless with what he types.

      The question and discussion of when Sturgeon found out about the allegations seems to ignore the “mid-March” phone calls and focus too much on the actual meetings. I don’t know why.

      Of course, you don’t phone someone to arrange a meeting about something unless you know about the ‘something’ first. On that basis, we must obviously assume that Sturgeon and her people knew about the allegations before making the call to Aberdein in mid-March, but God knows how how long before that would be…

      Lost in all this is the important question of how they found out – how did they know in mid-march about the allegations, who told them (bearing in mind that Craig Murray says: “Alex Salmond’s former Chief of Staff testified under oath in the Salmond trial that he was contacted in mid-March by phone by Nicola Sturgeon’s office to discuss historic allegations against Alex Salmond, and was asked to a meeting with the First Minister on 29 March”)

      We definitely need more information, as I said.

    200. Benhope says:

      Martin Laird just shot 65 in the first round on the PGA tour. Well in contention hopefully for the weekend.

    201. LeggyPeggy says:

      Al-Stuart @ 12.07 am
      You said ,

      “ If the Sturgeon McWoke Cabal is re-elected in May 2021, Scotland as a free country is finished. Forget about Independence, Old Nicola + Murrell and Boris have far worse I store: the Hate Crime and GRA will hand their government the right to close down internet sites and send their owners to prison. “

      You can see by the announcements made by some people that are putting themselves forward for selection as a candidate for May 2021 , that is exactly what we’ll end up with running our Scottish Government and Parliament . Nicola and her * woke * cabal in power again and as you say we can kiss Independence goodbye for another 5 years and of course they’ll pass the Gra reforms and the hate crime bill if they don’t get it passed before the elections next year .

      There’s also many * good * people who will put Independence first who are standing as candidates and hopefully the branches will have the sense to select them as the final candidate for the seats .

      You only have to look on social media when someone announces that they’re standing and you can tell who congratulates them to know if they’re * woke * or not because the same people run down the *good * people who are standing for selection .

      The other problem is also when it comes to the selection for the list seats and if the * woke * candidates are not selected by the branches I’m sure their names will appear again for the list seats .

      Hopefully Nicola Sturgeon , Peter Murrell will be gone soon and certain members of the NEC will be gone with the elections to the NEC at conference and we can get the party back on track to regaining Scotland’s place in the world as a proud and independent nation .

    202. CameronB Brodie says:

      The game’s far from over folks. Remember, I did say I’ve been trained to protect the most vulnerable from exclusionary and authoritarian law. I’ve only started ripping our law makers a new one.

      There’s bound to be those in positions of influence who can make our legal Establishment start respecting universal principled of legal doctrine. Rather than anti-foundational legal pseudo-science.

      The SAGE Handbook of Identities
      Chapter 8: New Epistemologies: Post-Positivist Accounts of Identity

      Post-positivist approaches to the formulation of social identities are relatively new developments that were formed in reaction to the inadequacy of poststructuralist and postmodern deconstructions of identity, on the one hand, and the implausibility of Cartesian based modernist accounts of the self, on the other (Moya and Hames-García, 2000).

      Neither the modernist nor the postmodernist theoretical traditions gives sufficient scope for the role that an individual’s particular social identity plays in shaping their subjectivity, experience, or knowledge (Alcoff, 2006; Siebers, 2008). To remedy this, the metaphysics of post-positivist realism has been applied to the realm of identity theory in order to provide a mediated approach to experience and knowledge combined with a modified realism….

      Media & Identity, Identity, Self & Identity

      identity; orientalism; positivism; salience; self-knowledge; standpoint; the self

    203. LeggyPeggy says:

      Re Geoff Aberdeen’s evidence , This is from inews on 23rd March re Alex Salmond’s trial ,

      “ Alex Salmond Trial , The questions now facing Nicola Sturgeon ,
      Sources close to Mr Salmond have previously insisted Ms Sturgeon
      knew about the Scottish Government inquiry “

      This covers Geoff Aberdein’s evidence re the dates of the meetings ,

    204. Beaker says:

      Does the SNP Twitter account run on spam? Because there is a pattern emerging every time FMQs is held.

      Seems to be a good deflection technique, since every second, and sometimes every consecutive Tweet, is from the SNP account.

    205. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope our Justce Ministry is still monotoring this site, as they might learn something about how to support open democracy. 🙁

      Procedia – Social and Behavioral Sciences 163 ( 2014 ) 204 – 213
      Self Reflexivity. The Ultimate End of Knowledge


      In the history of modern knowledge one could notice the analogies that exist between the paths and the resolutions of any major forms of non-dogmatic enquiry which attempted to provide a comprehensive explanation and understanding of the Human Being and the Universe. The investigation in the Natural Sciences established the cornerstone of objectivity as its guiding principle.

      From the beginning, it has looked downward for the most solid foundation in objects and ended up finding the human consciousness reflected by the very core of quantum reality, the (self-)reflexivity of human consciousness in quantum reality.

      In the Social and Psychological Sciences, the (self-)reflexivity of a particular knowledge (theory/matter) over the knowledge that produced it (discipline itself/researcher) forms the main epistemological and methodological debate over the meaning and the condition of possibility for the scientific objectivity in the field.

      Modern Philosophy started with the methodical doubt from the Cartesian Meditations, advanced through a transcendental perspective and ended in the pure self-reflexivity of the phenomenological consciousness. Even if the unavoidable conclusion is that Self-reflexivity has proved to be the closing stage of any mature reflective mode of knowledge – whether it was natural, social or psychological science, philosophical or literary – the key question is ‘Why?’

    206. David F says:

      @Daisy Walker

      Your timeline is a great service. I wonder if there is somewhere you could pin it for easy access, so it doesn’t get lost in long threads.

      There is one critical date that I think is missing – the date when Sturgeon first officially reported her contacts on the AS case to the relevant Civil Service officials. I don’t know the exact date, but this Guardian article reports it as having been in June 2018.

      So it was barely two months after the meetings on 29th March and 2nd April. Which makes even more of a nonsense of her lie that she “forgot” abut the meeting on the 29th March (as, of course, did her assistant Liz Lloyd)

    207. David F says:

      @ Hatuey 12:49

      There’s more in the Craig Murray article that you haven’t mentioned. Anybody who doesn’t normally read his stuff should go and take a look.

      In his replies to comments he has made a couple of explosive accusations. I trust him 100% but I just hope he knows what he’s doing. I won’t repeat them here just on the off-chance, so as not to put Rev Stu at risk.

      They’re either true, or seriously libelous. I’ll be waiting with interest to see if legal action is taken. If it’s not, I’ll draw my own conclusions.

    208. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

      david F
      I agree about Craig Murray.Sailing pretty close to the wind.My guess is that the subject of the comments is weighing up his or her chances of raising an action of some kind and emerging unscathed.
      Reminds me of those playground encounters where the boys circle around looking for weakness or a chink in resolve.
      What’s to lose? The target has much to lose. If there was a new revelation of corruption/collusion in addition to already wide ‘ranging'(that is a very carefully chosen word) doubts, it could bring the whole legal edifice in Scotland crashing to the ground. In that event. I imagine a Johnson emergency power grab, and WM assuming primacy over Scottish affairs. Then there might follow a resistance movement and then god knows what.

    209. Craig Murray says:

      Daisy Walker

      I agree with your guess on the diary

      Colin Alexander

      Geoff Aberdein was Alex’s ex Chief of Staff and a good SNP man. My guess is they wanted to pump him for info on the one true allegatino – the one that had been settled with an apology – and see if they could get him onside for more. But he did not give a full account of the meeting at the trial.

    210. Graeme says:

      I don’t want to believe Nicola is involved in this nasty little conspiracy to stitch up Alex, but no matter how hard I try I can’t help seeing it any other way, and it doesn’t matter whether she is or not right now she looks a guilty as hell.

      If Nicola is to survive this she needs to clear her name fast and completely disassociate herself from those who are involved at every level starting with her husband.

      When these conspirators are exposed (and I’m sure they will be)she has to be utterly ruthless in dealing with them without exception,she should be asking herself now can I do that and if the answer is No then she has to resign as soon as possible.

      When Nicola first came to power I believed she was a goddess who would lead us to independence, now all I see is a sad pathetic woman caught up in a web of deceit and lies and for me at least it’s painful to watch, the sooner this whole sordid affair is over the better for everyone

    211. Big Jock says:

      Graeme- Even if Nicola isn’t directly involved.

      What you have said in your last paragraph , means she needs to go anyway. She has absolutely no idea how to progress independence. Whether that is willful , or ineptitude , we may never know. One thing is clear. She hasn’t achieved one thing since she took over in 2014. I would argue that Scotland’s future is less secure than it was straight after the referendum.

      Given she is Murrell’s husband. It would be very doubtful that the pair of them hadn’t colluded. Remember also that Salmond advised Sturgeon of the perils of being married to the CEO of the party. That was a private conversation , but Murrell was obviously advised of it by Sturgeon.

      So that set the heckles alight and Murrell went after Salmond. That’s the reason all of this has happened. It’s a power struggle.

    212. David Caledonia says:

      I was in my mothers house a few years ago, live game on ITV was an arsenal game, Celtic where playing the same night, nothing, its allways been a disgrace
      Alex Salmond allways said that when Scotland gets independence we would have our own tv channel for scottish viewers

    213. David Caledonia says:

      Mr Murrell and his wife nicola, and all the other liars who committed perjury in court will be getting the handcuffs on soon enough if there is any justice in the world
      I am not a vengeful person by nature, but liars and perjurers need to be brought to account
      Perjury goes to the very heart of the justice system when its committed and it does carry a life sentence, but not often given out
      3 to 4 years seems to be the norm, jeffrey archer got about 3

    214. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Craig Murray, Daisy Walker

      ‘I agree with your guess on the diary’


      Then they are not very competent. First know your man. AS has always had a reputation for being very able and willing to stand up for himself – and others.

      If the guess is right, then they banked everything on him standing down and not fighting, and then had to regroup, make a new plan, and attempt to cover their tracks.

      Also, what choice did he have, he was innocent. He had to clear his name.

      Someone’s absolutely did not deserve their pay rises me thinks.

      Can anyone advise where and what to look for with regards the roots of the 3000 Civil Servant Jobs being created in Edinburgh. I’d put money on it being in 2014. But these things have to be costed and signed off, especially in times of austerity.

      Thanks for the feedback about the timeline. I’ll keep working on it and if anyone has something they think needs added, just say.

      Once again, the thing that is overwhelming when looking back at it, is as every Brexit No Deal crisis (with the exception of JC’s court actions) approaches with all the dangers that presents to the Scottish Devolution Settlement, the complete lack of any action – or plans for any action – the SNP has. Not even a whimper. We are well subdued under Nicola.

      Time we woke up, in more ways than one.

    215. Breeks says:

      Can I just speak/think out loud a moment? For some time I’ve personally had trouble trying to figure out why these dates matter in the great scheme of things. Granted, yes, lying to Parliament is a resigning matter, but all the same, it seemed to lack weight in any wider context. It’s not really a hanging offence, is it?

      However, I keep asking myself, am I missing something about the issue?

      Is it, that Sturgeons assertion that she only learned about the accusations concerning Alex Salmond when speaking to Alex himself is actually a pretence?

      Rather than an innocuous statement from a faulty memory, is it actually a calculated attempt to fix the point in time when Sturgeon claims to have learned about the Salmond accusations for the first time? Why do that? – To preculde any suggestion that Sturgeon and Evans might possibly have been in collusion to smear Alex Salmond.

      To put the point more bluntly… If Nicola didn’t learn of Alex Salmond’s involvement when she claimed she did, but actualy knew earlier than that, then her ‘watertight alibi’ about not colluding with Evans to ensnare Alex Salmond suddenly looks very dodgy.

      Furthermore, if she did know about Alex Salmond’s involvement before, then how did she come to know? Where did the information come from? Why did she feel the need to invent a narrative about the date when she first learned about Salmond revelation?

      Would I be correct in thinking that Nicola’s claim to have learned about Alex Salmond’s involvement from Alex Salmond himself, might be an attempt to contrive an alibi which ‘removes her from the scene of the crime’? – That is, create an alibi to infer she couldn’t possibly be part of any conspiracy to smear Alex Salmond if she didn’t learn about the accusation focussing on Alex Salmond until much later.

      “IF” that’correct, I suddenly understand why Sturgeon being caught lying is more momentous than I previously supposed. There is a possibility she is trying to establish a false chronology as a contrived alibi, and if that’s so, there are some very ominous questions to follow if her story unravels and it’s revealed that is what she’s attempted to do.

      If those assumptions are accurate, then suddenly I understand why the flaws and innaccuracies in Sturgeon’s comments are important. It looks like Lieutenant Columbo can score out a suspect’s perfect alibi, and put a tick against ‘opportunity’…

    216. Gary45% says:

      A word of caution.
      Don’t celebrate Scotland beating Israel.
      You’ll be accused of Anti-Semitism.

    217. David Caledonia says:

      I joined that facebook group about Independence, I lasted a week and chucked it, to many brain dead commenting on the phoney pandemic, one women wrote to me about it
      She was retired she said and she was lucky she had two options and did not need to the wee yins to school or work as she had enough to live on
      She had not been out the house for yonks and I said , anyone that want’s to stay in the house is free to do so
      I said, i am retired and my life has never changed, I wear a mask for appearance sake, but my life carries on as normal
      That is the kind of person subscribing to that site and its going to become a rabble, so I’m out before it starts to implode lol

    218. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

      your question is answered in the comments section on the latest craig murray post at his blog.The date is important as it indicates quite a lot about the whole process going on.
      It’s a Pain in the rear, I realise but there is little option but to try to follow this thread to the minotaur’s lair and confront the beast, with your avenging sword.Just remember that Ariadne will be waiting for you when you have despatched the bovine monster and followed the thread back to daylight.
      best of luck

    219. Socrates MacSporran says:


      A bare-chested Tartan Army foot soldier was arrested for trying to break into Hampden last night.

      He has been accused of anti-Semmitism.

      Ah’ll get ma jaiket.

    220. David F says:

      Big Jock @ 9:14

      Given she is Murrell’s husband. It would be very doubtful that the pair of them hadn’t colluded…

      It’s really six of one and half a dozen of the other. Like you, I cannot believe she was not colluding with her husband in the manipulation of a Whatsapp group involving the alleged victims of a series of sexual assaults that were the subject of an ongoing police investigation.

      In which case she has to go.

      Or she had no idea that behind her back, the CEO and the COO of the Party she is supposed to be leading were engaged in the manipulation of a Whatsapp group involving the alleged victims of a series of sexual assaults that were the subject of an ongoing police investigation.

      In which case she has to go.

    221. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Breeks
      “IF” that’correct, I suddenly understand why Sturgeon being caught lying is more momentous than I previously supposed. There is a possibility she is trying to establish a false chronology as a contrived alibi, and if that’s so, there are some very ominous questions to follow if her story unravels and it’s revealed that is what she’s attempted to do.’

      The questions which might clarify this are:

      On 29/3/18 exactly who was present when GA met NS

      At that meeting – how many allegations of sexual nature and how many complainers were there – at that time.

      When AS won his initial Judiciary proceedings there were 2 complainers.

      If on 29/3/18 there was only one complainer, on what date, did there become 2. (I’m guessing it was after the first week of June 2018 when AS told NS he was taking legal action).

      And if the second complainer to come forward (no names, and no job titles) was present, and involved in the meeting on 29/3/18 – then the initial enquiry/procedures was flawed from that point on.

      She would have been privy to detailed info about the first complaint, and as (supposedly) a victim herself – she could not continue to be involved in the investigation process – that is in fairness to complainers and accused.

      Failure to enter details of that meeting, including who was present, or indeed to remove them from the records, would be the first instinctive piece of evidence that AS would look to recover (and presumably GA would have informed him), and potentially an ill run government would look to conceal, and may well be the evidence that won him his first court appearance.

      If the above is correct, and if NS is implicated in the meeting being removed, or not logged, for that reason – gross incompetence, collusion, and at least a 1/2 £ bill paid out – in the first instance – to AS, are the things that immediately come to mind.

    222. Daisy Walker says:

      A wee thought.

      Can anyone remember when it was the Conservatives at HR started raising complaints about NS not keeping proper records, and noting things on post it notes?

      Beginning to think it may become relevant.

    223. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (9.47) –

      It may have been you, months ago, who wrote about ‘retrospective deniability’ vis-a-vis the Harassment policy generally.

      That fits perfectly with your conjecture above and Craig Murray’s most recent comments here.

      It’s easy to forget that CM, Rev Stu and others have, for a long time, known details about the case which they can’t share. How many of those details remain hidden for now is an unknowable for the majority of us but we can make educated guesses based on what’s publicly available.

      What worries me right now is Nicola’s sheer gallusness. It’s hard to imagine why she can be so cocksure of herself when even relatively staid, establishment-favouring journos are openly warning that her days appear to be numbered.

      Where does that confidence come from? Could it be her husband’s refusal to fully comply with the committee demands? The fact that he has employed lawyers (at SNP members’ expense) to thwart the process suggests that she knows she won’t be appearing before that committee anytime soon. Why? Because Linda Fabiani has made it pretty clear that she’s not going to be fucked about – this is her last duty in public office, will probably constitute the ‘highlight’ of her career, and she can’t possibly want it to go down in Scottish history as any kind of fudge or whitewash. The usual cynicism from observers about ‘committee inquiries’ generally must stick in her craw, as well it should. She wants to get to the truth and I believe she is serious about that, sometimes to the point of being overly cautious and censorious.

      Therefore, she must get Peter Murrell face-to-face, dig right into the genesis of the Whatsapp group, and reveal who was involved in setting it up. (Even if the anonymity of the Alphabet wummin is preserved, that doesn’t prevent committee members from establishing which of them was involved.)

      Peter Murrell has already demonstrated that he is a cowardly scheming shitebag. He won’t appear before that committee. He just won’t. If I was in his shoes that would be my one and only instruction to the lawyers. And so long as they can do that, and as long as he can keep paying them with SNP money? there’s no point in NS being called to answer questions.

      Everyone involved must know that.

      So, who will crack first?

    224. Bob Mack says:


      Chronology in this instance is all important. Let us remember the timeline to these events.

      In November 2017 two women approached the Scottish Government ‘re an alleged incident at Edinburgh Airport which Sky news was investigating involving Mr Salmond. That is the beginning of events according to Ms Evans testimony at the Committee.

      Nicola claims she knew nothing until 2nd April 2018.
      Although working with Ms Evans on a daily basis throughout that time.

      During this period Nicola decided to ask Me Evans to create a new policy which would allow process against former Ministers
      Although you are asked to believe the two events have no connection at all. Nicola knew nothing apparently that her senior Civil servant was investigating the former leader of the SNP, and instead the instigation of this policy was as a result of the “me too” initiative.

      There are coincidences in life and there is collusion.

      Either Nicola is the most under informed First Minister of all time of she is utterly inept.

      Evans must have explained her problem to Nicola, because out of nowhere we are asked to belisve,Nicola gave Evans the solution and the route to pursue former Ministers. One Alex Salmond. Who benefitted?

    225. Big Jock says:

      Ian – The gallussness is probably just bravado.

      Funny enough , I have a brother who is a lying toe rag. He behaved exactly the same way just before the earth crashed around him. I think it’s maybe a way of hiding their inner panic.

    226. Lizg says:

      Breeks @ 9.47
      I was wondering if its mibbi no the date of the meeting that matters at all?
      But rather establishing that there was actually a meeting to discuss the accusations , leading to WHO was at this meeting ?
      I mean if the guy wanted lawyers advice before he attended he didn’t seem to be anticipating an off the record chat between him and the First Minister .
      So who else was there and how do they fit in ?

    227. The Dissident says:

      @Ian B

      That ability to speak confidently no matter what she is actually saying is the entire basis of her leadership.

      I don’t know whether it is her inability to critically analyse whatever briefings she is given or whether her narcisstic nature enables her to assume that if she says it it must be right (probably somewhere in the middle of those two things) but once something is written down for her, no doubt revised and further revised through her review, it becomes ‘gold standard’ prose in her mind.

      After all how can it possibly be wrong if it has been produced by a team of civil servants, SPADs and herself?

      Quite possibly she believes she is right. What narcissist wouldn’t?

    228. Bob Mack says:

      When Sky was investigating the Edinburgh Airport Nov 2017 fiasco did they contact the SNP HQ for comment? It is perhaps at that juncture that plans were laid down to deal with Mr Salmond should be become an embarrassment to the party and to Nicola herself, regardless of potential outcomes?

      The whole thing is now rancid.

    229. Sarah says:

      @ David Caledonia at 9.48: Writing off SNP Members for Independence because of one person’s comment is a pity. Kenny MacAskill, Neale Hanvey, Craig Murray joined so the site can’t be all wrong!

      The site has a Conference Resolution from Isle of Arran branch about reducing NEC size – it is available for other branches to submit for selection. I am putting it down for my branch to consider as it looks a good one.

    230. The Dissident says:

      A memory has been sparked by various posts on here, including @Daisy’s excellent timeline.

      I recall a report of a meeting between AS and Liz Lloyd around the time of his RT contract becoming ‘an issue’ for Sturgeon.

      At that meeting it was alleged that Liz Lloyd told AS that it would be far better for everyone if he ended his association with RT.

      Of course, as a private citizen free to earn a living however he legally pleases, he told her to take a hike.

      But the really interesting thing that I recall about reports of this meeting was that Liz Lloyd advised Salmond that she was aware of potential complaints against him from his time as FM, presumably intended as some kind of threat to ‘encourage’ his compliance.

      Does anyone else remember this? Because if this is true, then it is impossible not to conclude that this has been a stitch-up / conspiracy orchestrated from the FMs office from the very start.

    231. Breeks says:

      Thanks for the replies. I think I’m getting it now.

      The other thing I’d say however, is that if this orchestrated conspiracy wasn’t about alleged sex offences, but say the Conspirators had been planning to assassinate Alex Salmond rather than smear him as a sex offender, how many of them do you think would still be in their high paid jobs protected by anonymity?

    232. willie says:

      There is no doubt in my mind that Sturgeon will be heading for the exit door. The trap door even.

      That will be a great and much needed relief to a party that has not only become disfigured through the rotten corrupt clique that has, and still is driving the party to destruction internally and electorally.

      In 37 years I have never felt the outrage from ordinary rank and file about the state and processes of the party. Process is disfigured absolutely to new rules and timetables set by the clique. vetting is used as a tool to disbar candidates in favour of clique candidates. The Constitution is something that is now optional.

      But its not just the party internally. Its electorally too as people who were independence and SNP supporters declare that they will not in May be voting SNP. And all because of people like Sturgeon, Murrell, Robertson and the rest of the clique who have gone soft on independence.

      Time for a clear out and for us to take back control.

    233. Big Jock says:

      Willie – If Sturgeon has her way. She will destroy the party and the movement.

      She is a dictator , and as someone else observed. She seems to have borderline sociopathic tendencies. By that I mean she is a control freak, has no loyalty to colleagues or members, or past members! She is also thin skinned. She is so used to running the show at Holyrood. That she panics when challenged , as if to say “How very dare you”. Mock indignation.

      The Covid briefings are full of fake platitudes. It’s a PR exercise, to paint herself as Mother Theresa. While in the background she treats colleagues like shit and drops them as soon as they make any mistakes.

      By the way. She isn’t going to walk away. She is either going to be taken down by the long arm of the law, or by the collective elected SNP representatives forcing her out.

    234. Albalha says:

      In reply to ‘Dissident’
      ‘During the March 6 meeting, Lloyd told Aberdein she hoped there was no basis in rumours Salmond was plotting a political comeback. She suggested this would be very difficult given his status on RT. Crucially, she also made reference to the sexual misconduct claims’

    235. mike cassidy says:

      The Dissident 11am

      Here’s the Daily Record ‘reporting’ in January 2019 of a meeting between Lloyd and Aberdein on 6th March 2018

      Is this the meeting that starts the whole clusterfeck rolling?

    236. holymacmoses says:

      The Dissident says:
      Quite possibly she believes she is right. What narcissist wouldn’t?


      I’m reasonably certain that Ms Sturgeon thinks she’s right. She will justify her actions to herself and counter any external criticism of her actions with the righteous indignation of anyone who considers their path through life to be pre-ordained. It’s the tone of certainty which makes her credible as a leader. It’s also a tone which accords any orator a credibility which is able to mask a million lies.

      TBH, the self-certainty isn’t a kick in the arse away from Donald Trump.

      For people holed up with Covid: ‘The Master of Ballantrae’ is a mystery story according to R.L.Stevenson. Most people think that Ephraim McKellar is an honest simple narrator:-). The Scottish brothers don’t destroy each other – they are ruined by the false credibility of a third party. It’s actually intellectually challenging and satisfying to uncover the plot and subsequent lies which lead to a Scottish tragedy. Plus ca change

    237. Hatuey says:

      The timing and order of events (sequence) are often more important than the events themselves. There’s good reason for that.

      Interesting that all that new material was released the day new Coronavirus measures were outlined.

      Yesterday it was confidently suggested in Holyrood that the people will not be much interested in this murky business because they are preoccupied with the pandemic. Sad but probably true.

      Craig Murray doesn’t need to worry about any of this, I say to those who think he has said too much. And I’d be willing to bet on that. And if his trial goes ahead, I’ll be amazed.

      It’s a game-changer if nobody anywhere can answer a simple question: when did Nicola find out about the complaints against Salmond?

      Careful, though, I’m not asking when they met to discuss… that’s an event and I’m only interested in sequence.

      Answers on a little tacky tartan postcard, if you will.

      And with that he was gone.

    238. Oneliner says:

      @mike cassidy

      Thanks for the Daily Record(sic) link

      I actually spotted a paragraph which contained two sentences!!. Perhaps there were reader complaints (if not compliants). Maybe that’s why Clegg moved to Dundee.

    239. The Dissident says:

      @Albalha / @MikeC

      Thanks. My memory clearly wasn’t perfect. I must have had quite a lot on that day. 😉


      Bang on. Her supporters’ analysis invariably focuses on HOW she says things rather than WHAT she says.

    240. Robert Graham says:

      Well say what you like about our Nicola she’s a great actress ” yes pre politically correct terminology” a great Actress , a good orator and gaining the respect from many all over this island , but more importantly she as has been shown shes ruthless better she is pissn out the tent than in it .

      She will change simply because of self preservation ,her man and associated mugs ,and as many as required will be ditched all due to political expediency they very publicly will be sacrifised to protect her brand and her interests .

      The ones who got her into this mess will pay for their mistakes, a very astute and accomplished operator who won’t make the same mistake twice , she aint going anywhere but if forced to she will take many with her .

      We dont know if there is a gun pointed at her head by the security services or if she have been made a offer she cant refuse after all they have been doing this for longer than most of us have been alive .

    241. cirsium says:

      @Ian B, 10.29

      Linda Fabiani said that Mr Salmond was “obstructing” the enquiry even after his lawyers had written to say that he had been warned that he would be held to be in contempt of court if he released the documents. All she had to do was to acknowledge Mr Salmond’s predicament and say that the Committee would be approaching the court to allow the release of documents.,alex-salmond-believes-the-scottish-government-is-trying-to-provide-unlawful-material-to-inquiry-his-lawyer-warns

    242. holymacmoses says:

      Hatuey says
      It’s a game-changer if nobody anywhere can answer a simple question: when did Nicola find out about the complaints against Salmond?


      I think Nicola is the sort of person who would hide the Easter Eggs and get others to hunt for them – don’t you?

      We inhabit a world turn’d upside down and outside in

      Is it possible that ‘others’ found out what Nicola Sturgeon had first ‘discovered’ 🙂

    243. Ruglonian says:

      There’s questions here about the 2017 Sky News investigation into allegations, and who knew.

      Ian Brotherhood has posted links to committee evidence btl and I’ve read them. Thanks pal.

      Sturgeon knew. She says so in her submission.
      Lloyd knew. She says so in her submission.

    244. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @cirsium –

      Aye, noted.

      May be wishful thinking on my part but if I was Linda Fabiani I’d say that too, just to provide the semblance of ‘balance’, anticipating accusations of bias in AS’s favour.

    245. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ruglonian –

      This statement, from Liz Lloyd, may be useful to those capable of making connections that I just can’t see.

      ‘Other witnesses have been asked if they were aware of a query by Sky News in relation to Mr Salmond and Edinburgh airport. I was made aware on the evening of Saturday 4th November 2017 by a member of staff in an SNP parliamentary media office that they had received a query in relation to Mr Salmond and Edinburgh airport. They called to alert me to the possibility of such a story running, in case any ministers were on Sunday morning media. I informed the First Minister of the query and that I understood that Mr Salmond would not be responding that evening.

      On Monday 6th November 2017 I was approached by several civil servants within the Scottish Government who raised concerns that Mr Salmond and representatives of Mr Salmond were reportedly contacting other civil servants directly to ask that they provide supportive statements in relation to the matters raised by Sky News to his legal representatives. The civil servants indicated that those being approached were finding this contact unwelcome. I was asked if I or other Special Advisers could ask
      Mr Salmond to go through appropriate channels rather than approach people direct, however I was informed shortly after receiving this request that the Permanent Secretary’s office had also been approached by staff and were taking their request
      forward, so made no approach to Mr Salmond.’

      (Sorry for the erratic breaks in para 2 there but the C&P won’t allow the spaces to be closed.)

      Frustratingly, the correspondence on the Harassment Committee website is not dated, but I’m assuming this appeared on Tuesday alongside the written testimony from Peter Murrell, John Swinney and, of course, Nicola Sturgeon.

    246. Ruglonian says:

      Thanks Ian.
      That is indeed the bit I had in mind.

      I’d forgotten the other significant part though – Evans knew too!

    247. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      That’s the conndction. Nicola has said she had no knowledge of complaints against Mr SaLmond until she was given some information by Aberdein on 29th March, and then by Alex on 2nd April 2018.

      That is patently untrue. You would have to believe that she was unaware why Sky news in Nov 2017,contacted the SNP press office and that nobody told her, or indeed that the Chief Civil Servant failed to notify her or the SNP Chief Exec of these allegations against a former SNP FM.

      It is utterly proposterous

    248. Ian Brotherhood says:

      What’s the difference between a jail and a prison?

      (Asking for a friend)


    249. Hatuey says:

      Ruglonian: “There’s questions here about the 2017 Sky News investigation into allegations, and who knew.”

      Yes. And I’d guess one of their intrepid journalists worked tirelessly for weeks on all this, inspired by Woodward and Bernstein no doubt, before reaching the startling but unavoidable conclusion that Salmond was in league with Satan…

      Or maybe someone just sent them an email.

    250. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Linda Fabiani said that Mr Salmond was “obstructing” the enquiry even after his lawyers had written to say that he had been warned that he would be held to be in contempt of court if he released the documents. All she had to do was to acknowledge Mr Salmond’s predicament and say that the Committee would be approaching the court to allow the release of documents.”

      As the Times revealed a few days ago, it was Alasdair Allan and Maureen Watt, the other two SNP members on the committee, who pressed for Salmond to be included in the statement about obstruction. Others didn’t want him in there, but they conceded it so that the rest of the statement could go out.

    251. Ruglonian says:

      Bob – from Sturgeon’s submission

      “In early November 2017, the SNP received a enquiry from Sky News about allegations of sexual misconduct on the part of Alex Salmond. I spoke to Mr Salmond about this allegation at the time. He denied it and, as it happened, Sky did not run a story about it at that time. Since the identity of the individuals was not made known to us and they did not approach the SNP directly, there was n o further action that it would have been possible to take”

    252. terry says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      9 October, 2020 at 10:20 am
      A wee thought.

      Can anyone remember when it was the Conservatives at HR started raising complaints about NS not keeping proper records, and noting things on post it notes?

      Beginning to think it may become relevant.
      yes I do – cant find the post it stuff but using the wrong email goes back to 2015!!!

    253. OldPete says:

      Watching Nicola answering her daily questions in her usual excellent manner. However how thick and stupid are the majority of these journalists, most of their questions are ridiculous. How she copes with this nonsense is beyond my ken.

    254. holymacmoses says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      This statement, from Liz Lloyd, may be useful to those capable of making connections that I just can’t see.


      I think I make too many connections sometimes Ian, BUT it does seem odd that these ‘ladies’ Sturgeon, Lloyd and Evans were showing an interest in Salmond at the same time as creating a new ‘me too’ back-dated policy. This date is BEFORE any firm commitments for the new ‘Harassment’ policy document.

      The headline here is:

      “I told Sturgeon about concerns about Salmond in November 2017”

      And is reported that Lesley Evans said this.

      This is interesting because it seems certain that the ‘concerns’ were from three incidents reported in 2008 by the airport and addressed to Robertson and not acted upon in any other way.

      WHY would these ladies be looking AT incidents from 2008 UNLESS they were looking FOR incidents that might compromise Mr Salmond? And clearly Ms Sturgeon had been informed of these incidents.
      There’s also the question as to whether a journalist or two had been asked to look into the matter on their behalf.
      In the calendar – this is before the back-dated legislation is committed to paper and links Sturgeon with a ‘knowledge and clearly ‘an interest’ in ‘misbehaviour’ deemed to have been carried out by her mentor. It seems that ‘research’ on Mr Salmond had already begun at that point.

    255. Hatuey says:

      holymacmoses, good analogy, Easter eggs.

      Now I’m stuck with the image of her in a bunny outfit in my mind.

      It all feels like a bit of rigged deck though now, doesn’t it… the mystery gone now that we know there’s no real magic involved.

      Oh well.

      Who was it that chastised me on here recently for suggesting we might be heading down the same road as Stormont with Holyrood getting suspended?

      Looks like a distinct possibility now, I’d say.

      Anyway, Dangerfield strikes again;

    256. holymacmoses says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 October, 2020 at 12:53 pm
      What’s the difference between a jail and a prison?

      (Asking for a friend)


      ‘The letters’

      From a pal.

    257. Bob Mack says:


      So she knew about possible allegations in November 2017, and then shortly thereafter asked Leslie Evans to compile a policy which would cover former Ministers(according to Ms Evans submission).

      It looks as though she was preparing the ground to allow an investigation of Alex does it not??

      These events cannot be unrelated if you have prior knowledge that what you create will be used at some point especially on someone you know ,who has already been accused

    258. holymacmoses says:

      Bob Mack says:
      9 October, 2020 at 1:27 pm

      So she knew about possible allegations in November 2017, and then shortly thereafter asked Leslie Evans to compile a policy which would cover former Ministers(according to Ms Evans submission).


      I think it’s important to recognise that these allegations were from 2008. They were recorded, sent to Robertson and nothing else transpired at the time. WHY would it surface on 17th November 2017 unless ‘information’ or ‘evidence’ was being searched for?

    259. Corrado Mella says:

      I take wagers on Nicola going before Christmas after a BoJo/Trump-style quick brush with COVID.

      And for the Tories (red blue or amber, same difference) the game is already a bogey.

      No point left propping up the Sturgeon rubber wall that protected them from the slow erosion to the Unionist front by the unstoppable tick-tock of biology.

      I’m sure the BritNazi Establishment is already planning new strategies, like bribing folks with renewable energy investments that -guess what- will be around Scotland, because it’s where the natural resources to spin the turbines are.

    260. Cag-does-thinking says:

      I’ve been offline most of the last day or so but as I followed events I’ve just skimmed through the thread and I’m inclined to think the same as Breeks posted above.

      There’s a significance (and therefore probably some kind of trail out there) of trying to pinpoint the date at the end March and 2nd April. It tells me that there may be real evidence probably further back than that, perhaps mid March and perhaps in a meeting not between the same parties. After all if someone was plotting they wouldn’t be expecting a forensic examination of the timeline two years on.

      The more I watch matters the more I am convinced that they haven’t been able to shut the stable door as well as they should and are worried abotu it.

    261. Gary45% says:

      For the gullible falling into the rabbit hole.
      Is it Qanonsense?
      Or Qanonentity?

    262. Albalha says:

      From Nov 2018 Sky News report on 2008-2009, Angus Robertson, Edinburgh airport, Alex Salmond claims -Nicola Sturgeon avoids giving definitive yes/no answer.

      ”We asked Ms Sturgeon if it was conceivable that he did not tell her about Edinburgh Airport’s concerns over the behaviour of Mr Salmond.
      She said: “I understand public and media interest in this story but there are ongoing legal processes right now. We are in the midst of a civil court action between Alex Salmond and the Scottish government. As we know, there are ongoing police enquiries”

    263. Bob Mack says:

      It all becomes very jntsresting.

      Alex Salmond joins RT on 9th November 2017. Complaints about previous behaviour arise from 17th November 2017 although they were historic in nature as Ruglonian stated from 2008

      We already know Salmond was threatened or warned if you prefer, about historic complaints that could be used if he joined RT.

      Sturgeon asks Evans to create a policy to include former Ministers somewhere between Nov 2027 and Dec 2017.

      This was punishment for Alex. Were the State Security services involved? Did they help gather evidence? I know I hate conspiracy theories, but I can understand why the British State would fear someone like Alex working for RT.

      This is all too closely linked to be mere coincidence.

    264. Bob Mack says:


      I see you’ve managed to extricate your head from the fund in which it was buried. Still a little sand to brush off mind.

    265. Gary45% says:

      A classic gullible response.

    266. Gary45% says:

      Face the pyramid and lick the lizard sucker.

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’t a very long time since studied criminology from a critical perspective, so I’ve not wanted to comment on live proceedings. I’ve been very impressed with Daisy Walker’s development of a timeline though, and the general sleuthing being done. If only we didn’t have to keep such a close eye on our legal Establishment. Anyhoo, perhaps a bit late in the day, but I though this might prove instructive.


      Until relatively recently, the common law offence of misconduct in public office has been regarded as anachronistic. The offence was perceived to have been supplanted by specific statutory offences that could more appropriately deal with criminal conduct by public officials.

      However, there has been a revival of the offence with successful prosecutions occurring in Australia, England and Hong Kong. Many of these contemporary cases have involved police officers. Examination of these cases reveals that the circumstances in which misconduct in public office has been identified have been diverse, including the unauthorised disclosure of confidential information, the use of false search warrants and the sexual exploitation of vulnerable persons.

      In many instances, police officers were charged with other criminal offences in addition to charges relating to misconduct in public office. The matters prosecuted as misconduct in public office typically involved matters that were serious and/or could not be adequately prosecuted as other criminal offences or as breaches of police regulations governing conduct.

      Consequently, despite the proliferation of statutory criminal offences in the 20th century it appears that there continues to be a place for the offence of misconduct in public office. It criminalises misconduct by police officers that may not be adequately dealt with by other offences and recognises the public trust dimension of wrongdoing by these officials. However, a continuing and fundamental challenge is to determine the appropriate definition and scope of the offence.

    268. CameronB Brodie says:

      I might know a bit about forensic criminology, but I’m still crap at proof reading. 😉

      Political Corruption and State Crime$002facrefore$002f9780190264079.001.0001$002facrefore-9780190264079-e-274;jsessionid=3102F08EA16CC4B190CE8259D47AFBC9

    269. CameronB Brodie says:

      I really do hope our Justice Ministry is still monitoring WOS, as they might learn a thing about how to protect democracy. Mind you, I don’t think they actually give a flying fuck about democracy, so long as they can maintain their precious fucking yoonyawn.

      Negligence and Misfeasance

    270. Bob Mack says:


      Kinda hurts when your belief system starts to crumble doesn’t it? I feel your pain.

    271. Oneliner says:

      Why didn’t Alex Salmond start a blog rather than sign up with RT?

      It would have been well-subscribed and, perhaps, could have been a vehicle to raising (appropriate) funds for those such as Mark Hirst, Craig Murray and Martin Keatings. Perhaps even a rallying point for the disenchanted.

      I can’t help but feel he took the celebrity option.

    272. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘The SNP’s email system ultimately comes under the purview of Ms Sturgeon’s husband, the SNP chief executive Peter Murrell.’

    273. Bob Mack says:


      I think rather Alex took the option which would cause most discomfort to Westminster, which a blog would never have done.

    274. Andrew Morton says:

      *Laughing emoji*

      *Laughing emoji*

      *Laughing emoji*

    275. Oneliner says:

      @Bob Mack

      Apparently, causing Westminster ‘discomfort’ is not without risk.

      Nothing new there then. Perhaps there are other ways.

    276. Ruglonian says:

      Bob – it was Holymacmoses that said that the allegations, that Sky News was investigating, were from 2008 🙂

    277. Effijy says:

      Why Alex took the RT job?

      Because no other Westminster controlled UK Channel
      would give him his own show to put forward his chosen
      subjects with his chosen guests.

      Because he has lost fortunes defending himself from trumped
      Up charges and this job gives him a voice and an income.

      Because Russian money already sponsors the Tory Party money laundry.

      I think any half wit knows that the UK media is entirely corrupt and bias.

    278. Hatuey says:

      This can’t be right;

      “ senior civil servants Nicola Richards and Judith Mackinnon sought to share the draft procedure they were developing for harassment complaints against former Ministers with “Ms A”, a woman who went on to make a formal complaint of sexual harassment against Alex Salmond in January 2018.”

      Is that allowed? Seriously? Wtf?

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      Again, perhaps a bit late in the day, but I thought this might prove useful.

      Crimes of the powerful
      Researching crimes of the powerful

    280. Gary45% says:

      Keep believing your “stable genius” lizard leader.

    281. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey –

      Thanks for that Dangerfield link, I hadn’t seen it before.

      The concluding section is eye-popping too.

      Sooner that committee is able to get back to business the better.

    282. Tannadice Boy says:

      The emperor has no clothes. The end is nigh for NS. Now the real Independence movement will get back control. Better late than never. Stu will be in his element soon. A clear board is what is needed. Scotland has a population of 5.4 million and 2 people shouldn’t control it. MSPs stand up for once and do the right thing. Nobody should be allowed to bring the house down.

    283. Daisy Walker says:

      Timeline – updated today. Have added when the Civil Servants Hub 3000 was approved. And NS record keeping issues into it. Also when NS and LE signed off on retrospective complaints process.

      If anyone can recall when AS was removed from SNP history, I’ll add that in too, and if anyone thinks of anything else which might prove important – pipe up and I’ll add it.


      8th June 2017 – Terrible May calls a GE and wins.
      AS loses his seat.
      NS takes IndyRef2 off the table. Now is not the time.
      A marked difference in her attitude is seen.
      ‘Not until the Terms of Brexit are Known becomes the mantra.

      The Brexit deadline time line is I think November 2018 ish.

      Both Pete Wishart and Tommy Shepherd (Tommy did this in a public talk, as far as I can tell he was the first person to run this up the flagpole, since then he has kept his head down on this subject – his background is old/new labour) start to talk about ‘not until after Brexit and the hard effects are felt, should we go for IndyRef2’. PW is fully supported in this view by John Swinney.

      July 2017 (source Civil Service World) HM Revenue and Customs confirm the go ahead on a new Civil Service Hub to be build at Waverly St, Edinburgh to staff 11 Civil Servant departments – 3,000 positions. 20 year lease taken out. Artisan the contractor.

      November 2017

      9th November 2017 AS gets his own TV Show on RT. While the Yes movement is delighted at an evening up on the media inequality… the official SNP and NS – pursed lips all round.

      17th Nov 2017 – Sky New reported to be actively investigating AS over historic incidents from 2008.

      First Documentary ‘The Only Game In Town’ is aired on WOS.

      Nov/Dec 2017 NS and Leslie Evans sign off on new complaints procedures which cover retrospective incidents.

      Jan 2018

      Sky News approaches the SNP re allegations of a sexual nature against AS. This may be the first complaint registered with Scot Gov against AS, or indeed the first complaint by employee may have been registered at this time, its not clear.

      Feb 2018 Murray Foote Resigns from DR

      March 2018

      Mid March Geoff Aberdein is contacted by NS aids to set up a meeting with her on 29th March – this is not mentioned in any way, or officially recorded (as far as we yet know) in NS evidence to the inquiry. GA can corroborate this contact, and has provided this information under oath at AS criminal trial.

      29th March 2018
      NS meets with Aberdein (who is in parliament to see former colleague) and is informed of AS issue – for the first time. Meeting takes place at Holyrood – and she later ‘forgets’ the timing of this meeting possibly due to not being supposed to hold party meetings in this venue.
      Meeting and all those present is not officially recored in the FM’s diary.

      At FMQ on 8/10/20 she refers to it (not exact wording) as an off the cuff type meeting, fleeting/head round the door.

      In contrast to GA who describes it clearly under oath as pre-arranged, and has since stated it lead to him seeking legal advice prior to attending.

      She lied to Scottish Parliament about when she was first made aware of the complaints.

      April 2018
      2/4/18 NS thinks AS will resign
      WM votes to illegally bomb Syria.
      Legal appeal against Brexit begins.

      22/4 AS sends NS message

      May 2018 Brexit – attitudes to Indy due to Brexit, ways of gaining Indy all still being talked about.
      31/5 AS sends message to NS requesting a meet.

      June 2018
      3/6/18 AS threatens legal action. Asks for Permanent Secretary to be notified re arbitration procedures.
      6/6/18 PS notified by NS
      7/6/18 NS meets AS alone
      SNP high in Polls
      13/6/18 SNP walk out of WM in protest at treatment of the Skye Banker and what was to become the UK Internal Market Bill.
      Same Date Iain McWhirter writes about Devolution ending not with a bang but a whimper over this bill.

      23/6/19 Msp Mark Macdonald Scandal***

      July 2018
      5th July meeting with AS
      18/7/18 No further contact after this date
      Wings over Scotland has its You Tube BBC content taken down without its knowledge by BBC in London.*** Why? What footage did they want removed and why?

      August 2018
      17th August WOS appears in court re Kezia Dugdale
      19th August Campaign in Edinburgh by many English people campaigning for Peoples Vote on Brexit and begging Scotland to assist.
      Kirsty Hughes – lobbyist for same – also showed up on list of ‘journalists’ who have received same ‘support as female journalist who was later quoted by Craig Murray and yet CM gets take to court over it. (Sorry forget her name, and can’t spell it anyway). Dannielle Givianni?
      UK Brexit Appeal lodged

      Allegations against AS made public. Civil law complaints, 2 complainers at this time. (Was it 2 complainers on 29th March 2018? If not then where and by what means did the second one come forward?)
      AS initiates record breaking fund raiser and instigates Judical Appeal.

      30th August 2018 permanent Secretary Leslie Evans meets with Civil Servant Unions to attempt to gain support against AS.

      Sept 2018 Polling shows support of Indy increasing due to brexit

      Oct 2018 AUOB march – Edinburgh big turnout

      Nov 2018 Brexit deadline reached – Transition period entered. No talk from NS or other top SNP members as to how we save Scotland. Not until the Terms of Brexit are Known is the mantra, and the sound of the can rattles down the road again.

      Dec 2018

      19th 12/19 Vote of No Confidence in Terrible May at WM. Boris elected. Actions by the Labour party ensure Brexit No deal is the only game in town.

      January 2019

      During this month or the next NS manages to recollect she had that meeting with Aberdein on 29th March 2018. Does nothing to update the official record of same, at this time.

      8/1/19 AS wins Court of Judiciary process – procedure deemed unfair and tainted by apparent bias.
      The Times calls for Leslie Evans to be sacked.
      20/1/19 LE contract of employment extended (possibly with 20,000 £ pay rise)

      From memory – it was within weeks of A initial win that Criminal Procedures were taken out against him.

      Feb 2019 Brexit, nothing resembling a plan from the SNP

      March 2019 Another Brexit Deadline comes and goes, no real progress, transition extended.

      April 2019

      24/4/19 NS puts before Holyrood legislation for HR to hold referendums without permission from WM. This will be legally challenged by WM if it ever gets put into action.

      May 2019
      6th May AUOB march in Glasgow 100,000
      End May GE called for December

      June 2019 GE talk

      14th June 2019 – New Civil Service Hub at Edinburgh – Queen Elizabeth House, officially opens. To house 3000 civil servant staff. Widely thought to be preparation to take over duties from Holyrood, once power grab and Brexit are complete.

      July 2019

      4th July Mhairi Black posts video of herself referring to all who have reservations about GRA Self ID as ‘Jeremy Hunts’. It is around about this time she is seen in HOC’s putting her hand in her pocket and then taking her hand out rubbing her finger round her gums. Concerns were raised that this is classic Cocaine misuse behaviour – she laughed this off dismissively and stated she was finishing off a piece of Kit Kat.

      August 2019

      Westminster Brexit Coup
      Polling shows Support for IndyRef2 growing

      Sept 2019

      WM unlawfully prorogued – as found by court

      SNP policy now officially ‘Stop Brexit’ Full support for Peoples Vote on a second Brexit Vote

      20/9/19 The Times reports on allegations NS is failing to keep proper records of her Government business, specifically referring to June ’19.

      Oct 2019
      SNP at WM prevent a Vote of No Confidence in Boris.

      Tories High in polls (UK)

      16th Oct 2019 – NS to DEMAND powers for Holyrood to hold Referendums. Pretty much empty rhetoric to play to the home crowd.
      SNP policy is now openly calling for second Brexit ‘peoples vote’ on Brext.

      Electorial Commission demand 9 months notice for any further Indy Ref.. Indy Ref 2 now pencilled in for second half of 2020. ‘Trust in Nicola’ becomes the theme.

      Nov 2019 Only Game in Town part 2 is shown on WoS. Leslie Evens is named within for questionable actions.

      The Times reports NS handwritten notes have not been kept and have been destroyed, NS avoids using her Scot Gov e-mail system, Conservatives report her to Public Records Scotland Act 2011 for possible breach.

      Dec 2019

      Wings over Scotland Twitter account suspended weeks, just weeks before AS trial is due to go ahead, following complaints from woke members of SNP. And just in time for the GE.

      GE Neale Harvey and Denise Findlay suspended from SNP over dubious, if not spurious complaints, and with little regard for proper procedures for carrying out same.

      SNP withdraws all funding for Neil’s GE campaign and instructs SNP supporters not to assist him. He gets elected anyway.

      Motive thought to have been for having signed the Womans Pledge, and complaints thought to have been instigated by Woke element within SNP.

      Jan 2020

      11/1/20 Boris says No
      31/1/20 Brexit officially happens – NS gives much hyped speech during which it becomes apparent there was no Plan A, never mind a cunning plan B. ‘Trust in Nicola’ not such a good theme.

      Feb 2020

      Covid getting closer. GRA under ‘consultation’ open to every country under the sun to contribute. Somerville openly declares her determination to push it through. Only organisations openly biased in favour are getting ministerial time to present their case.

      Polls show agenda to be major vote loser.

      March 2020

      23/3/20 AS trail – Cleared on all charges. Journalists with pro indy credentials excluded from the trial and subsequently charged with contempt of court for quoting main stream media reports verbatim.

      Craig Murray the only journalist (as far as I’m aware) to record and publish, in any detail, the evidential statements given by defence witnesses. A trial in search of a crime, best description of it.

      No comments of support, or compassion or relief of any kind toward AS and his wife, over whole debauchle.

      Covid Lockdown begins.

      NS unable to delegate to her Health ministers for press briefings even months down the line.

      October 2020 – final transition period for Brexit deadline November – now approaching and No Deal the only thing on the cards.

      Internal UK Market Bill passed at WM an open destruction of devolution and power grab. 3000 civil servants moved into Edinburgh to fascilitate same. SNP official policy – `now is not the time’ ‘Only when we can win’ Covid, covid, covid, look at the polls, look at the polls, look at the polls.

      So, that’s it for the moment.

    284. Hatuey says:

      Yw @ Ian Brotherhood

      We’re definitely not in Kansas any more, are we…

    285. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy Walker –


      Keep at it please, I suspect we could all make good use of it, putting letters of the ‘Alphabet’ at specific points.


    286. Daisy Walker says:

      14th October 2019 The Herald (as archived by IB – many thanks) refers in more detail about NS using her SNP e-mail and handwritten notes rather than her former MSP Scot Gov e-mail account.

      It specifically points out that while all her Scot Gov emails will be officially recorded for the purpose of FOI requests. Her SNP emails can be deleted at will.

      This makes No (lawful) sense. Her MSP Scot Gov account will have full set of records and contacts of her MSP work. Much much easier and efficient to keep that in one email system. Safer too, from the point of view of ‘official’ data protection, since this is a UK Gov wide system – so any breaches are on their shoulders.

      Likewise keeping SNP party e-mails on a separate e-mail account is also more ‘hygienic’ practice.

      Wonder what the outcome is/was with regards the Conservative lodged complaint to Public Records re this.

    287. shug says:

      The problem I see is

      1) With Nicola flying high in the opinions getting rid of her would be a unionist dream.

      2) we don’t know she will bottle a referendum but given her family background this is unlikely and she has been quite consistent in playing the long game.

      3) Stu has still not launched a Wings party.

      If Indy does not happen it is not all Nicola’s fault

      It is really easy to carp from the side (listen to the labour party). If I don’t see a Wings party supported by Salmond soon I might assume perhaps Stu is not on the side of indy.

    288. Daisy Walker says:

      A wee detour.

      Cast your mind back folks to that GE in 2017 when AS got ousted.

      Timing wise it caught us all on the hop, and did not make a lot of sense, since Terrible May was not doing well in the polls. And yet she called it anyway.

      In the aftermath, many of us thought the whole point of that GE and the overwhelming resources thrown at it by Westminster, was to get the SNP down to minority MP seat levels again – a plan which did not succeed. With particular attention given to AS’s seat.

      I wonder now, if the reason NS looked shell shocked after the SNP win (all be it with reduced MP numbers) was due to the WM plan not working fully. Her job of selling ‘now is not the time/ not until the terms of Brexit are known’ just became a lot harder to sell.

      For the Edinburgh Civil Service Hub to be approved and a 20 year lease obtained on the site, one month later, indicates a well prepared, well oiled plan, by people in power.

      A few things show up in a jarring way.

      NS not happy at AS getting the RT program. She should have been delighted on behalf of the Yes Movement.
      AS stating he was not going away, or leaving active politics.
      NS and LE and Sky News digging for old dirt, and creating the retrospective complaints system.

      Very, very hard, not to see these actions as having a common purpose, one which benefits the British Establishment, is funded by it, and moves to weaken if not neuter the Indy Movement.

      NS is not our friend. Leslie Evans began working for her as PS in June/July 2015.

    289. Tannadice Boy says:

      @shug says
      1) Would be a Unionist dream? No it is an Independent supporter dream.

    290. kapelmeister says:


      1. Your precious Nicola is flying so high the glue on her wings is all but melted.

      2. She’s bottled a referendum alright. She’s put a S30 request in a bottle and put it in the sea.

      3. Stu is not obliged to launch a Wings party.

      You say “If Indy does not happen it is not all Nicola’s fault.”
      Fair enough. 98% her fault and 2% our fault for having been taken in by the lying, selfish, conniving scoundrel.

    291. Tannadice Boy says:

      I am giving Shug a break. He is young and susceptible to propaganda. Probably on the payroll. Me.. I have received 25k today from MI5 and the Yoon establishment. Next week I receive 1.5 million pounds. Hiding in plain view? Sick of this shite!

    292. Albalha says:

      Some endeavour, Daisy Walker
      Of help, interest, perhaps.

      On Alex salmond being ‘deleted’ appears to be
      Jan 2019

      August 2018 question – it’s Dani Garavelli, she’s just stood down from her SoS column.

      Peter Curran also caught up in the BBC ‘copyright’ ban

      Tommy Sheppard, interestingly, has raised independence in a Scotsman column posted yesterday afternoon. Perhaps he sees the writing on the leadership wall. And of course his part of Edinburgh will, hopefully, deselect Ash Denham in Edinburgh Eastern in favour of a committed independence activist who is openly supported by people close to Tommy.

    293. cirsium says:

      Rev – thanks for the clarification (1.10pm) about the statement on Mr Salmond’s “obstruction”. Either Maureen Watt and Alasdair Allan do not understand about contempt of court or they wished to malign his reputation.

    294. Albalha says:

      And interesting lines in that Jan 2019 Alex Salmond
      deleted article.

      ”It emerged the two SNP chiefs held a series of private meetings while the case was ongoing. A former Salmond aide, Geoff Aberdein, claimed this week that Ms Sturgeon’s chief of staff Liz Lloyd had been aware of the misconduct probe in late March – before Ms Sturgeon claims to have been aware of it.

      ”This was rejected by Ms Sturgeon’s team, who have accused the Salmond camp of conducting a “vendetta” against Ms Lloyd and carrying out a smear campaign.

      ”Mr Salmond complained that individuals were seeking to remove his as a “political threat”.

    295. Beaker says:

      @shug says:
      9 October, 2020 at 4:54 pm

      1) Polls are not sky high. Not when you take into margins of error when extrapolating figures. You also need to consider the reasons, ie COVID. There has been no real public debate about independence. While the polls could go up, they can also plummet.
      2) Unless you are a close relative, you are simply making assumptions about her family, and someone’s family background should only be considered if there is a direct effect – ie George Bush’s family.
      3) Have you got a few hundred thousand pounds you could spare to launch a new political party?

      “Stu is not on the side of indy.” I’ve not seen a shred of evidence to even consider that, and I’ve lurking on this site for years. Perhaps you are dismayed that he is not a member of the SNP Glee Club.

      Politics is a treacherous business. It’s hard to make it to the top, but bloody harder to stay there.

    296. robertknight says:

      Daisy Walker @ 4:27…

      Fantastic timeline, thanks.

      (I had the voice of Jim Garrison/Kevin Costner, during the JFK courtroom summing up scene, in my head whilst reading all of that).

    297. Velofello says:

      Daisy Walker: a really helpful diary of events, much appreciated.

      I’ve allowed my SNP membership to lapse due to the events you have recorded, and due to events at our local branch that I posted here some time back.

      Entryism was the response from Ian Brotherhood – a couple moved to our town from Glasgow, armed with the SNP rule book. They had 3 attempts to secure positions – A as MP, then B as MSP, and then success! – A elected as councillor. Rumoured to have previously been a counciller in Glasgow.Our chairperson received a complaint from an SNP supporter of incorrect canvassing by A, our chairperson twice contact SNP HQ to report the issue and was ignored. Oh, and another new member arrived from wherever and straight onto jostling to be a councillor ucandidate.

      And so I allowed +30 years membership of the branch to lapse. I sincerely wish to rejoin the SNP , to campaign for independence once I feel comfortable that the careerists have been sent packing.

      And careerists right up to senior level in the SNP.

    298. Ottomanboi says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is not a nationalist. She dislikes the word. Why should she be concerned with the bother of independence when she can make her mark on British politics with which she seems to have a good measure of rapport.
      Independence would be a destination arrived at by too many dangerous stomach churning twists and turns, too risky for a woman with Global ambition

    299. Lothianlad says:

      People really need to start awakening up to the power grab and that 3000 civil servants moved in preparation for it.

      This site and its contributors are aware, but with the sustained strangling by the WM and utter silence from the SG, devolution is being utterly eroded.

      The media and their lap dog journalists will remain tight lipped over something that would have been utterly unthinkable not that long ago.

      I fear for the pro independence bloggers activists and supporters as I see a state like put down on a Catalonian scale.

      We have an SNP FM, an SNP Scottish government, independence support in the majority, an yet NOTHING, NOTHING from the SNP SG leadership to prepare for this coming attack on democracy!

      And dont think for one moment that the EU is going to rise in and save the day! Their silence over Catalonia was little short of evil!

      The EU does not want its member states “fragmenting” to quote guy fuckface!

      It’s now up to us, us to organise and mobilise. We need wise heads at the top, CM, AS and the rev must be involved.

      The first step is to take the initiative, and clear out the murrels inner circle!

    300. Lothianlad says:

      Daisy Walker 4..27


    301. Albalha says:

      Who are these entryists?

    302. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT, sorry but I need to correct myself in a response to Lizg the other night, when I suggested that my legal position tended towards an anti-positivist, post-colonial stance that was compatible with standpoint epistemology. Though my error appears to have gone unnoticed, I need to point out my position is actually POST-POSITIVIST. So I’m able to respect standpoint epistemology and Natural law. Unlike Scotland’s judicial system, apparently. 🙁

      So do I hope our Justice Ministry is taking note on how to defend democracy and the most vulnerable in society, as they appear desperate to break Scots law by standing under and promoting ANTI-FOUNDATIONAL LEGAL PSEUDO-SCIENCE, a.k.a. EUGENICS. ;(

      International Journal for Crime, Social Justice and Democracy, 2014, 3(1): 121?134
      Domestic Violence and Family Law: Criminological Concerns


      The battered women’s movement in the United States contributed to a sweeping change in the recognition of men’s violence against female intimate partners. Naming the problem and arguing in favor if its identification as a serious problem meriting a collective response were key aspects of this effort.

      Criminal and civil laws have been written and revised in an effort to answer calls to take such violence seriously. Scholars have devoted significant attention to the consequences of this reframing of violence, especially around the unintended outcomes of the incorporation of domestic violence into criminal justice regimes.

      Family law, however, has remained largely unexamined by criminologists. This paper calls for criminological attention to family law responses to domestic violence and provides directions for future research.

      Domestic violence, family law, child custody, family court, family studies.

    303. shug says:

      BBC going hell for leather on the Scottish Government really bad for imposing restriction.

      There was the usual interviews with businesses saying how unfair it all was. There was even one from the Sligachan Hotel on Skye complaining – clearly not remembering or caring about all the deaths in the care home there. Frightful and despicable is the only word I have for them. One hotel I will never visit.

      Would they be happy if the SG were “more fair” and just closed everything.

      I would never have picked up on the news management by the BBC and the MSM generally had it not been for Stu so good on you sir.

    304. Lothianlad says:

      If you are reading this Mr. Salmond, please stay strong!

      All of Scotlands heros who struggled for Freedom faced persecution.

      You are still here fighting and we appreciate your efforts.

      Only a FM who put Scotland first and was a threat to the union would be persecuted the way you have been.

      That’s why NS has not!

      Burns would be proud of you!!!!!

    305. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Albalha

      Re the Scotsman article from Tommy Shepherd, this quote jumps out,

      ‘Which is why in 2021 we can clarify matters beyond doubt. I predict that the SNP manifesto will ask people to vote to have another referendum without any qualification. To say simply and clearly whether they want to consider again how we are governed in the future.

      If people vote for that proposition and elect a pro-referendum majority then it would be illegitimate and undemocratic for any UK government, Tory or otherwise, to deny that expression. If they did, they would be keeping Scotland in the UK against the wishes of the people who live here. There’s a word for that and it’s not union.’

      In short he wants Holyrood Election to be Yet Another Mandate, and it will be really really naught of Britain to keep saying No.

    306. DaveL says:

      @ Daisy Walker
      Feb 2020 Murray Foote becomes SNP spin doctor.

    307. Tannadice Boy says:

      That’s a sad story but not atypical. I gave up membership after watching NS at a public meeting in the Caird Hall. My wife was due to pick me up at 9pm. I phoned her to say 10 30. I went for a couple of pints in a City Centre bar. Why? I knew then NS was a wrong ane. OK I am an AS fan. But I saw the fundamental flaws in NS character back in 2015. And I have plenty on her senior supporters. It was obvious back then we were heading in the wrong direction. Glad the rest of you are catching up.

    308. Black Joan says:

      Many thanks to Daisy Walker for the very valuable timeline.

    309. kapelmeister says:

      Daisy @4:27

      It’s good to have a timeline like that to achieve clarity. Thanks for all that effort.

    310. shug says:


      Last time I heard Nicola described like that, it was the typical orange lodger/masonic type – this is very interesting

      I usually define a unionist as being full of hate, spite and anger.

      Very interesting indeed

      I never cease to be amazed how nationalists want to make civil war over what appears to be an internal power struggle when the real enemy is in total confusion and are being led by buffoons’ like Boris

    311. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy –

      How about the release of the Wark ‘documentary’?

    312. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy –

      Forgot to also suggest, the Garavelli article which inadvertently ‘jigsawed’ one of the Alphabet women?

    313. kapelmeister says:


      Go easy on the inspired hunches son. It’s clearly not your thing.

    314. Albalha says:

      ‘Daisy Walker’
      Yes get your point re the Tommy Sheppard column but just
      thought it was curious he raised his head, as it were, given your timeline reference.
      And, forgive my obvious ignorance, why do you refer to me as ‘@ Caesar!lha’?

    315. mike cassidy says:

      Daisy Walker

      This came up earlier today on the thread

      Lloyd meeting Aberdein 6th March 2018

      She claimed the complaints she mentioned to Aberdein re Salmond were to do with Airportgate

      Not the backdated Government enquiry about which she claimed she did not know at the time

    316. Bob Mack says:

      Internal power struggle? That justifies sending a man to prison for countless years does it?

      Don’t want to live in any countrg you are in charge of bud.

    317. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Tommy Shepherd’s comment. All peoples have a human right to “internal sovereignty”, i.e. how they choose to govern themselves. Westminster is simply defending its’ rather narcissistic and xenophobic claim to “external sovereignty”, by ignoring the right of the Scottish people to their “internal sovereignty”. So our government is no longer legally bound under Westminster’s authority, unless you support a state of authoritarian totalitarianism. Which appears to be the legal position favoured by our legal Establishment. ;(


      © 2013 Bregham Dalgliesh
      Problematising the
      Political Theory of Identity Politics:
      Towards an Agonistic Freedom

    318. Graeme says:


      How does a video version of your timeline sound, it could be done with video clips available online, captions background etc, I’ve done this sort of thing with weddings etc before, I’d be happy to try and do it or perhaps someone better qualified than me can do it, you would of course have full editorial approval and any input you want, it would be your video

    319. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….Westminster is simply defending ENGLAND’S rather narcissistic, xenophobic and EXPANSIONIST claim to “external sovereignty”, AS IF ENGLAND IS THE UK.

    320. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Graeme (6.57)-

      Great idea.

      Sounds like a job for Phantom Power!!


    321. Graeme says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 October, 2020 at 7:03 pm

      @Graeme (6.57)-

      Great idea.

      Sounds like a job for Phantom Power!!


      Yeah they make great videos 🙂

    322. A Person says:

      -Tannadice Boy at 6.37-

      I would be interested to know what made you change your mind.

      I was never very comfortable with the “I’m with Nicola” campaigns but just dismissed it and thought it was no worse than the “Strong and Stable” Theresa May campaign.

    323. Willie says:

      Flying high in the opinion polls -?

      The suckers dream. No need to canvas. No need to campaign. Destroy the independence promoters like Salmond and Cherry. Promote and parachute into place as many GRA, TRA and Indy lite candidates as possible. Stand aforesaid types in selection challenges against sitting MSP’s ergo stand Humza’s cousin Osama Bhutta ( not original name ?) against sitting MSP Kenny Gibson who has over 9,000 majority.

      And then with a collapse of the SNP vote, and remember the SNP are currently a minority government, the job is done.


    324. Willie says:

      And I like how the HQ ( whatever that is constitutionally ?) are still instructing branches not to campaign.

      They stopped branch meeting too over the last six months saying Zoom was not a suitable format. Now they have given permission, despite the constitution not having been followed to have branch AGM’s ………..convened by Zoom. And so with AGM’s delayed and dislocated into October, November and maybe even December they will have delayed the meetings well past the rigged candidate selection process.

      Constitution, rules, there’s none. Only what the clique says – whilst the membership sleeps. But, and this is a big but, the members are waking, and they don’t like what they see. And they will sort it.

    325. ben madigan says:

      Congratulations to Daisy on an excellent time-line.
      Seems to me that 3 themes emerge:
      1) the Scottish Govt’s putative involvement in framing Alex Salmond,which also involves
      2) the “Woke” takeover and
      3) the Scottish Govt’s refusal to campaign for/promote Independence.

      The majority of Independence supporters are probably most annoyed by the 3rd theme, as Covid rages through the land and a poor or no deal Brexit approaches.

      Wth regards to the 3rd theme, we know the Scottish Govt never really supported the AUOB marches. Ms Sturgeon did not attend them and an SNP council contrived to jail Mandeep Singh,the organiser.

      When did the Scottish Govt stop supporting Robin Mc Alpine and his Common Weal associates and their plans for furthering Independence?
      Like their ideas or not, they supplied good material for IndyRef1 and worked very hard at getting votes out.

    326. Dan says:

      @ Willie

      There is some campaigning at the moment as there are council bi-elections on the go.
      Of course, other countries have held full national elections during covid but we must not be big enough, rich enough, or smart enough to manage that… 🙁

    327. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Willie (7.20) –

      A wee birdie told me there’s real anger, at branch level, over the SNP’s treatment of Margaret Ferrier.

      Councillors are making the noises they’re expected to make by the heidship, aye, but rank & file members are disgusted and embarrassed at the way she’s been scapegoated.

    328. Tannadice Boy says:

      @A Person
      It is difficult to articulate but I will try. Anybody over a certain age was largely ignored. She stretched over at the end of the meeting across platforms (hazardous manoeuvre) to engage a young child to rapturous applause. Plus what she said. If was obvious to me that women matter and not men. I thought Scotland was made up of both. And if we were to win Independence it would need both.I had to go and have a drink because I thought I had attended a rally of you know who. Subsequently she came up with her policies to disadvantage candidates in favour of gender. I discuss on WOS but I can’t remember what my original handle was something around Tannadice no doubt. Disappeared for 5 years fed up but the game is back on.

    329. CameronB Brodie says:

      The party is ill but it can be cured, thought the patient will need to be willing to acknowledge it is ill, and that it needs medication in order to recover its’ political AGENCY.

      Identity Politics and Dialectical
      Reason: Beyond an Epistemology
      of Provenance

      Identity politics is important within feminism. However, it often presupposes an overly subjectivist theory of knowledge that I term an epistemology of provenance.

      I explore some works of feminist standpoint theory that begin to address the difficulties of such an epistemology. I then bring Sartre’s account of knowledge in the Critique of Dialectical Reason to bear on these difficulties, arguing that his work offers tools for addressing them more adequately.

    330. cynicalHighlander says:


      It needs a surgeon not a Sturgeon to amputate the head.

    331. Dan says:

      Crazy Saturday nicht thoughts…
      If Kate Forbes can jump in with a days notice and produce the fiscal yearly budget for all of Scotland, maybe she could chuck together the SNP accounts before lunch the morn…

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      cynicalHighlander 🙂

    333. Mist001 says:

      They were terrific contributions from Daisy Walker. Excellent!

    334. Alf Baird says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 6.56

      I think Tommy Shepherd may be confusing ‘internal sovereignty’ with ‘internal colonialism’ (Hechter 1998). Scotland still suffers from the latter because Shepherd and 47 other SNP MP’s remain in Westminster with Scotland’s sovereignty sitting in their pockets.

    335. crazycat says:

      @ shug at 4.54

      2) we don’t know she will bottle a referendum but given her family background this is unlikely and she has been quite consistent in playing the long game.

      I’m taking that mention of her family background to mean that you think she was brought up in an independence-supporting household, presumably on the grounds that her mother became an SNP councillor and Provost of North Ayrshire and her father stood (unsuccesfully) for election as a councillor.

      My understanding – though a quick search has not provided a citable reference – is that she was the first SNP member / indy supporter in her family, and her parents only followed suit some time later.

      I could be wrong.

    336. Daisy Walker says:


      Re a Timeline video. I’m up for it. And I have time. How do we set up a meet/communications. Happy for the Rev to pass on my e-mail.

      Re the other suggestions, I’ve added them, and will post it tomorrow (its getting quite long).

      A question, when was the NEC meet where they tried to deselect Joanna Cherry. And when were the rules changed so she could not stand as MSP.

    337. CameronB Brodie says:

      See when I get up to full-speed, I should be more able to be precise and prescriptive in how I rip our law makers a new one. I might even risk rationalising a legal opinion. You’ll have to put up with the theoretical level for now though, and take a bit of time to discover how the framework of legal reason works. 😉

      Philosophic Exchange, Volume 29, Number 1 Volume 29 (1998-1999) Article 1
      On Judging Epistemic Credibility: Is Social Identity

    338. crazycat says:

      @ A l ba lha at 6.52

      This site replaces the first 4 letters of your username automatically (unless they are spaced out – I hope!) to deter the use of the Gaelic slogan which translates into English as “Free Scotland”. Free becomes Hail.

      Any word containing those letters in that order will be affected.

    339. Graeme says:

      @ Daisy
      Ok Ian Brotherhood suggested Phantom Power make the video, no question they would make the best job of it, but failing that Im willing to try, if we can can exchange emails we can start there, I’m not sure how that can be done without going public maybe Stu can help

    340. CameronB Brodie says:

      Alf Baird
      I haven’t read the article so I can’t say, other that we are definitely suffering the effects of ‘internal colonialism’. At the cultural, governmental, and individual personal identity levels. ;(

      The Epistemology of Identity

      Click the blue title to download the pdf.

    341. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Graeme/Daisy –

      It was only a suggestion, no disrespect intended. I’m sure youse could do it splendidly. The spine of the script is already there.


    342. Bob Mack says:

      Just be very careful what you document. Remember media have leeway to comment. You have none. Any wrong move could come back to bite you.

      Everything must be public knowledge

    343. Graeme says:


      A couple of draft videos I did a while ago, not mt my best work but it might give you some idea of what we can do, this one would have to be much different

    344. Graeme says:

      No offence taken Ian 🙂

    345. CameronB Brodie says:

      Btw, my perspective is not fantastic imagining. I’m simply trained to resit the New Right, and the cultural violence they are want to commit. Along with the authoritarian racism and social inequality their policy agenda promotes.

      European Journal of International Relations
      First Published November 6, 2017
      Internal colonisation: The intimate circulations of empire, race and liberal government


      This article proposes that ‘internal colonisation’ provides a necessary lens through which to explore the relationship between violence and race in contemporary liberal government. Contributing to an increasing interest in race in International Relations, this article proposes that while racism remains a vital demarcation in liberal government between forms of worthy/unworthy life, this is continually shaped by colonial histories and ongoing projects of empire that manifest in the Global North and South in familiar, if not identical, ways.

      In unpacking the concept of internal colonisation and its intellectual history from Black Studies into colonial historiography and political geography, I highlight how (neo-)metropolitan states such as Britain were always active imperial terrain and subjected to forms of colonisation. This recognises how metropole and colonies were bounded together through colonisation and how knowledge and practices of rule were appropriated onto a heterogeneity of racialised and undesirable subjects both within colonies and Britain.

      Bringing the argument up to date, I show how internal colonisation remains diverse and dispersed under liberal empire – enhanced through the war on terror. To do this, I sketch out how forms of ‘armed social work’ central to counterinsurgency in Afghanistan and Iraq are also central to the management of sub-populations in Britain through the counterterrorism strategy Prevent.

      Treating (neo-)metropoles such as the UK as part of imperial terrain helps us recognise the way in which knowledge/practices of colonisation have worked across multiple populations and been invested in mundane sites of liberal government. This brings raced histories into closer encounters with the (re)making of a raced present.

      Colonialism, counterinsurgency, Eurocentrism, liberal government, Prevent, race

    346. robbo says:

      wtf is a pile of ice gonna dae- Muppets

      Suns out tomorrow.

      Whats Gordie Pordie up to these days


    347. Daisy Walker says:

      Graeme, delighted to give it a go.

      I’ll contact the Rev and see if he’ll pass my e-mail to you.

    348. Benhope says:

      In Rev Stu`s post at 1.10, he states that Alasdair Allan and Maureen Watt insisted that Alec Salmond be included in the list of people that were obstructing providing information to the inquiry.

      AS was legally prevented from providing the information.

      Has anyone any ideas why two SNP MSPs would take this strange position ?

    349. willie says:

      Interesting how so many candidatures for Hollyrood have become the friends and relatives of the current coterie of control.

      Take Humza Yousaf of the Hate Crime Bill. His wife is standing for selection in Fife. And in Cunningham North Humza’s cousin Osama Bhutta, no previous political experience in the party, is standing against sitting MSP and nationalist stalwart Kenny Gibson who as a majority of over 9,000 – up from his initial forty of fifty votes.

      And of Bhutta’s web page proudly resembling an official SNP web site I abstract the following –

      “Join the SNP
      You’ll be too late to vote in the constituency selections, but depending on when the regional rankings take place, you may be able to vote in them (you need to have been a member for 3 months). Being a member also means you could in future stand for office yourself. We need more people to step forward from a diversity of backgrounds, so I hope you’ll think about this ”

      No problem for this newbie to pass vetting but recognising that he’ll have difficulty unseating a long term popular sitting MSP Kenny Gibson does our Osama know something about the regional listing when he’s encouraging folks to join the SNP so they can participate in ” Listing regional candidates in three months time ”

      Seems that he does!!

    350. twathater says:

      A wee title for Daisy’s and Graeme’s video


      Let the people see the TRUTH

    351. Daisy Walker says:

      A strange thing – 2 posts where I have listed the 6 (out of 12) videos which were removed from WOS site in July 2018 and appear now to have been completely removed/blocked on You tube.

      You tube wrote to WOS listing the videos I removed, so I checked them 6 are still there.

      Now when I post the missing ones complete http addresses both posts go missing.

      How very strange. Can anyone confirm same or is it me.

    352. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Graeme –

      Just watched the first of your links there. Brilliant.

      First time I’ve ever seen that clip of Rees-Mogg having a chat with the lads! Soo-perb!

      Then Caledonia and all those great images, memories.

      Brings a tear tae the eye.



    353. A Person says:

      -Tannadice Boy-

      Interesting, very odd stunts and so transparent. Is “you know who” Hillary Clinton?


      Hmm, not sure I share your disregard for this protest. I would bet that a large majority of those working in hospitality in Glasgow will be Indy-inclined yet they’re seeing an SNP government cost them their livelihoods.

    354. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Graeme –

      Just finished the second.


      Tears again for a different reason.

      The big brave robocops battering lassies and grannies.


      No doubt that’s what we could be up against as we get closer to indy and you’re right to highlight it – some of the characters in the first link would surely be quite happy to see a few of our skulls being cracked.

      Aye, we’ve a fight ahead, and it’s not for the faint-hearted.

    355. cynicalHighlander says:

      @A Person

      a large majority of those working in hospitality in Glasgow will be Indy-inclined

      And an equally large propotion of those dying will be Covid victims.

      Difficult choice eh!

    356. James Barr Gardner says:

      Meantime Dumbelbum tipped as the next Governor General BBC.

      Are the BBC biased against Scottish Independence, well with this it is total proof that it is Anti-Scottish Institution.

    357. robbo says:

      A Person says:
      9 October, 2020 at 8:49 pm


      Hmm, not sure I share your disregard for this protest. I would bet that a large majority of those working in hospitality in Glasgow will be Indy-inclined yet they’re seeing an SNP government cost them their livelihoods.


      You reckon? What did you expect was gonnae happen when cases are doubling weekly and we’re in a worse situation now than mar/apr?
      Hospital admissions are rising,icu cases rising,deaths rising.

      “Winter is coming” That is not a “Game of Thrones” trope.
      Winter is coming and so is flu. Dark days are ahead if we don’t get a grip now!

      Plenty of yoon bars and punters in Glasgow too you know. Am sure they’ve all been following NS .Aye right yar.

    358. A Person says:


      I’m just being realistic, this measure has caused serious alarm; it will hurt the SNP, whereas nobody is going to say “I didn’t die of covid so I support the SNP”. The fact that the bartenders of Glasgow (whatever that means in practice in terms of who organised it) are protesting against it is proof of that. I am making no comment on the merits or otherwise of the semi-lockdown.

    359. Graeme says:

      I don’t know what lies ahead Ian but if were gonna restore our independence we’re all gonna have to stand up and be counted, it’s not gonna be plain sailing

      But looking back into our history the Scots have never shirked a fight even when the odds were against us, sadly all to often we’ve been a nation of wolves led by donkeys just as we are now.

      Hopefully that will change

    360. Daisy Walker says:

      Silence Will Fall 1st August 2018 is a Wings article.

      It publishes a You Tube Letter listing 12 of the videos they had taken down.

      I attempted to check these videos today and I think 6 are no longer available.

      But then I’m really crap at computers.

      Can some of you out there have a wee double check.

      Many thanks.

    361. Beaker says:

      Apologies if someone pointed this out earlier, but Jaffa Cakes is trending on Twitter, following Sturgeon’s comments this afternoon.

      Suppose it makes a change from her literary tweets…

    362. Tannadice Boy says:

      @ A Person
      Worse than Clinton I was referring to something from the nineteen thirties. It was that bad. I was left feeling I had made a huge mistake. But thanks to WOS and ordinary Scottish people we are almost back on track. And to think after I left the Army I attended a sparse meeting in Arbroath led by Margo MacDonald. A great feeling.But don’t tell Jim Sillars, that will make him jealous ye know.

    363. Albalha says:

      Reply to Daisy Walker, the SNP NEC meeting which decided to block MPs, clearly Joanna Cherry, was on the 30th of July.

      And Crazycat, how odd re the name thing, had no clue, I can clearly see people’s ‘handles’, but sure you’re right.

      Willie in regards to Osama Bhutta aka Osama Saeed, he stood as the SNP Westminster candidate in 2010. An utter chancer.

    364. Albalha says:

      Acht – Osama Saeed now Bhutta stood as the 2010 Westminster candidate for Glasgow Central in 2010.

    365. CameronB Brodie says:

      Getting back to forensic criminology, I though this could also prove instructive. 😉

      Journal of White Collar and Corporate Crime, 2020, Vol. 1(1) 7-15 (C) The Author(s) 2019
      Moving Beyond Abstract Typologies?
      Overview of State and State-Corporate Crime


      The core focus of politicians, citizens, and the majority of criminologists continues to be on the most banal forms of lawbreaking street crimes. Yet state crimes occur vastly more often and are portentously harmful and costly – socially, politically, economically, culturally, and environmentally.

      As such, I suggest having a foundation for understanding and identifying what are often hidden “crimes” is as pertinent, if not more so today, as we continue to hear daily of atrocities, antitrust violations, tainted products, collusion, price gouging, crimes against humanity, human rights violations, to name just a few, by states and

      In addition, the topics covered in this special issue should not be seen as distinct, but rather as part of the
      overall broader system of power, neoliberalism, and the perpetuation of the inept status quo.

      neoliberalism, typologies, state crime, state-corporate crime, social harm, commodification

    366. CameronB Brodie says:

      I though this could also be helpful in preventing our legal Establishment’s “ambivalence” to natural justice, from destroying Scotland as a nation.

      Critical Criminology
      Decolonising Criminology: Syed Hussein Alatas on Crimes
      of the Powerful

      © The Author(s) 2018


      Like the rest of the social sciences, criminology is dominated by Western scholars, literature and perspectives. This Westerncentrism of criminology means that non-Western criminological scholarship has largely been marginalised or ignored. This article contributes toward the ongoing efforts to decolonise criminology by arguing that the Malaysian intellectual, Syed Hussein Alatas (1928–2007), is worthy of greater inclusion in criminological research and teaching due to his pioneering scholarship.

      More specifically, Alatas deserves greater recognition within the criminological subfield of ‘crimes of the powerful’, an area within criminology which has been at the forefront of challenging the criminological status quo but which remains somewhat parochial. This article introduces Alatas’ most notable works and explains their relevance for contemporary criminology.

    367. tartanfever says:

      Utterly fed up with imbecilic comments like ‘ the SNP will cost them their job’

      Public health choices are made for the protection of lives, for the health of the community and the functioning of the Health service not to overwhelm it so it’s there when people need it. That is the role that Sturgeon understands and it is what she is trying to achieve, If you disagree with her on health grounds, fair enough. If your argument is that she will destroy the Scottish economy, you have little idea of Scotland’s actual lack of powers.

      Jobs/Furlough/Business monetary protection are a political and economic choice. We are not independent, we have to rely on Westminster to ‘magic up some money’ via the Bank of England (ie it doesn’t exist, there are no savings, it is literally created on a laptop) and for them to pass it to us. Scotland is not allowed to borrow money on the scale required – the UK govt can.

      The tory govt. are happy to pass 10’s of £billions to banks, their Tory funders, Hedge funds and the City but will not protect ordinary citizens. If your argument is the economic handling of the pandemic, there really is only one culprit.

      Remember, Dead people don’t recover – an economy can.

    368. James says:

      I’ve lost my job due to Covid-19. Anyone got any 2nd hand masks I can’t afford new oned

    369. cynicalHighlander says:

      @A Person

      I’m just being realistic, this measure has caused serious alarm; it will hurt the SNP, whereas nobody is going to say “I didn’t die of covid so I support the SNP”. The fact that the bartenders of Glasgow (whatever that means in practice in terms of who organised it) are protesting against it is proof of that.

      What I am saying is Covid kills as alarm hasn’t killed anybody has it. As far as the SNP are concerned they should of been shouting that this is for greater good of everybody but until we are independent and in full control of our economy we are are unable to assist financially without Westminster’s consent. Silence from the SNP.

    370. robbo says:

      tartanfever & cynicalHighlander


      It’s the utter denial of the basics that gets me. The doctors and nurses and other health workers lifes they put in jeopardy just sickens me. We’ve already lost hundreds of them to this because they caught from patients in hospitals,care homes etc.

      A simple fecking mask and keeping their distance, washing there hands kills the virus. It has nowhere to go then, it dies not us. Until we have a vaccine that can protect the majority we must do mitigation.

      Don’t even get me started on the herd bunkum. Are those advocating that be willing to sacrifice their mum, dad, granny, grandpa, kids with health conditions etc.

      No the won’t. As long as it doesn’t affect them.

    371. Tannadice Boy says:

      My daughter has lost her job. And?. A full lockdown is planned at the end of October. Source Police Scotland or at least people that work for them. Exchange Xmas presents now.

    372. Hatuey says:

      Benhope: “ Has anyone any ideas why two SNP MSPs would take this strange position ?”

      Presumably so that some people can say Salmond and the government are withholding info, both sides trying to subvert the truth, etc. Otherwise it would simply be true and apparent that the Government / SNP was the only guilty one and that’s not a good look.

      Note the more than one reference she made to the idea that she was being accused of also trying to protect Salmond. Talk about a straw man argument.

      Everything is intended to cause confusion in the mind of the public.

      In an alternative universe Salmond would be in prison and she’d be flooding the market with all sorts of stories about how difficult it was but she had to let her principles and justice prevail, all in the name of equality, democracy, etc.

    373. A Person says:


      But that’s not my point. People see Nicola Sturgeon closing their workplace, they’re not interested in the economic background, it’s too visceral.

      -Tannadice Boy-

      Crikey! Now Margo Macdonald, there was aScottish politician with guts, willing to put her neck on the line for strong principles.

    374. Sarah says:

      @ Graeme: I’ve just watched your Parcel of Rogues. It is wonderful and brought a tear to my eye, seeing those Yes flags and people.

      I feel the Yes people are all my friends – at the Edinburgh marches in 2018 and 2019 I knew that everyone I could see and anyone I spoke to was on the same wavelength.

      We must not despair and we must not be angry with each other. We need to bring out the best in each other and step out now together to gain freedom.

      The mechanics is the problem at the moment. The SNP Conference is unlikely to be able to clear up the internal mess – time is too short. And I can’t see signs of anyone proposing a leadership challenge. That would be the chief way to start redirecting the party’s efforts to independence.

      As for an alternative list party: to be successful, as the Brexit Party was, it needs to be only one party. At the moment the water is muddied by a multiplicity.

      I think we need big-hitters proposing clear action and that action to start now, not relying on May 2021 election. But I’m not hearing a whisper. Is anyone else?

    375. robertknight says:

      Was passing a bar in High Street (Glasgow) this afternoon. Sign on pavement read “Nicola. There are 12 jobs in here”.

      About the same number of punters were stood outside, pints in hand, no social distancing, up in each others faces shouting to be heard over the passing traffic. Exactly the sort of behaviour that has got us to where we are today.

      The sign should’ve read “Dear Customer. There are 12 jobs in here”.

    376. Graeme says:

      Thank you Sarah 🙂

    377. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. balancing economic interests with those of public health. Economies are shaped through, and reflect, the culture they derive from. So the viability and health of culture, largely determines the potential health of the economy.

      Not from a neo-liberal perspective though, which considers the economy as the arbiter of all human interaction, and the best determinant of social reason and action. In other words, neo-liberalism seeks to subourdinate culture to the will of the market, which is itself irrational and unable to determine the “best” allocation of resources. That’s partly why it is safe to consider neo-liberalism a form of fascism.

      Front Public Health. 2015; 3: 23.
      Published online 2015 Feb 6
      Putting Public Health Ethics into Practice: A Systematic Framework

    378. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If it’s possible to set aside the huge differences in opinion over the virulence of this fekkin bug, let’s at least agree that the FM’s current Salmond-related travails are seriously damaging her credibility.

      Today, yet again, the briefing was embarrassingly personal – her feelings, her sympathy, her agonising etc.

      Is she being advised to stress/personalise the leadership role because it’s playing well in the polls? Is she genuinely unaware of the extent to which she appears to be presenting herself as some kind of heroine, saving the nation in the face of mounting odds etc?

      Even the most ardent fan of Jason & The Lockdowners must be able to see that punters generally are not completely ignorant – they know that she’s on a sticky wicket with the whole Salmondgate affair and they see her floundering at FMQs after years during which no-one could lay a finger on her.

      So why should they believe her diktats when it comes to lockdown restrictions?

      If the trust is gone – and it appears to be ebbing away rapidly – then her staying in position becomes a public health issue, doesn’t it?

    379. robbo says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 October, 2020 at 10:08 pm

      So you’d rather tricky dickie, wee wullie winky or rooth the mooth were the ones trying to keep it together with covid ? Nae chance. Windnae let any o them run a fecking tuck shop in primary .

      This has nowt to do with Sturgon/Salmond gate. It’s the protection of our NHS and nation.

    380. CameronB Brodie says:

      It is not possible to support public health ethics without respecting the “Precautionary Principle”. This is one of the main reasons we are leaving the EU, as the Tories are ideologically hostile towards the concept of environmental justice. Well actually, their hostile towards justice, full stop.

      The precautionary principle:
      protecting public health, the environment
      and the future of our children

    381. Tannadice Boy says:

      @A Person
      My point exactly Margo audience 20. NS audience 10000+ The bigger impact Margo!

    382. Hatuey says:

      Robertknight, it isn’t even a secret now that the big and main driver of the second spike was the return of kids to schools, exacerbated by the return of colleges and universities. It’s a ruse to blame this on pubs, young people, drunks, etc.

      The logic behind it accepts that kids will spread it in schools and take the disease home, but that most parents with kids are likely to be young and survive it. Not all though. And, of course, their parents are taking it to work and spreading it more widely.

      A good number of kids could probably have studied from home using the Internet. I’d guess about 40% minimum. The others who couldn’t do that then might have gone to school and had more space and a much reduced chance of catching it. But that would take effort and work and nobody in government likes work.

      It’s a shambles. Tinkering with pub opening times and crap like the “rule of 6” isn’t ever going to make a difference. By the end of October we will be burying 50 to 100 per day, then they’ll do lock down. Had they done it sooner, it would have been easier, shorter, and more effective.

    383. Ottomanboi says:

      Robbo 9:52
      You are rather naïve to believe that the official expert view is the only valid one.
      There is a growing body of alternative expert opinion that is sceptical of the value of the measures you mention. This is a virus whose symptoms are typical of the type. It is not plague.
      The problem is, governments having set the course of action as if this were a deadly ‘plague’ they are unlikely, given the social and economic damage already done, to revise their strategy.
      There is no such thing as ‘the science’, simply knowledge which grows through observation, experiment and by trial and error.
      This is a situation in which minds need to be open not closed down by politicians and their hangers on causing fear and panic where there is no rational cause and using questionable statistics, there being no 100% reliable Covid test, to suppress social contact.
      The colateral damage of this mania for lockdown is a growing incidence of mental problems, unemployment, poverty and disrupted lives for the majority.
      Wear a mask, wash your hands, stay in isolation if you choose but do not expect others to conform to your personal practice.

    384. Graeme says:

      @ Daisy

      If Stu has access to my email address I’m happy for him to pass it on to you, I’ve made a start but I want your input throughout, this is your project

    385. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      I’ve been iffing & butting for ages but have now given up my SNP membership.

      I cannot stomach all that has gone on. Where to place my vote when next called upon? It certainly won’t be the SNP under its present leadership.

      I’m very sad & very mad. Not a good combination. I keep thinking of the Rev’s cock & balls ballot paper & think this is the way to go unless there is drastic change.

    386. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @robbo (10.18) –

      You’ve managed to avoid the point I made.

      Is the credibility of the FM being damaged by her (and her husband and government’s) handling of the Salmond inquiry?

      You honestly believe it isn’t?

    387. CameronB Brodie says:

      If the Tories weren’t such clowns, covid wouldn’t be the problem it is today. They failed to respond promptly and adequately, and only started to respond more appropriately once the consequences of their “herd immunity’ madness was brought to their attention. I’m not a nanny-state advocate or snowflake, I’m trained to defend the most vulnerable from abuse through the legal system. I also know a bit about how to support public health and democracy.

      The Use of Policy Frameworks to Understand Public Health-Related Public Policy Processes: A Literature Review
      Final Report
      October 2012

      There’s an executive summary for those with the interest.

    388. cynicalHighlander says:


      This is a situation in which minds need to be open not closed down by politicians and their hangers on causing fear and panic where there is no rational cause and using questionable statistics, there being no 100% reliable Covid test, to suppress social contact.
      The colateral damage of this mania for lockdown is a growing incidence of mental problems, unemployment, poverty and disrupted lives for the majority.

      Ever sat an IQ test?

    389. CameronB Brodie says:

      “There is a growing body of alternative expert opinion that is sceptical of the value of the measures you mention.”

      No there isn’t. There is a growing body of biased science and legal thought that is directed towards undermining Global Health Law and a respect for Public Health Ethics.

    390. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s another peek at what Westminster and our legal Establishment don’t think Scots should ever enjoy, apparently. 🙁


      The American Journal of Bioethics Volume 20, 2020 – Issue 7
      Positive Public Health Ethics: Toward Flourishing and Resilient Communities and Individuals


      The COVID-19 pandemic is a global contagion of unprecedented proportions and health, economic, and social consequences. As with many health problems, its impact is uneven. This article argues the COVID-19 pandemic is a global health injustice due to moral failures of national governments and international organizations to prepare for, prevent and control it.

      Global and national health communities had a moral obligation to act in accordance with the current state of knowledge of pandemic preparedness. This obligation – a positive duty to develop and implement systems to reduce threats to and safeguard individuals’ and, communities’ abilities to flourish – stems from theories of global health justice and governance.

      The COVID-19 pandemic revealed and amplified the fragility and deficiencies in our global and domestic health institutions and systems. Moving forward, positive public health ethics is needed to set ethical standards for building and operating robust public health systems for resilient individuals and communities.

      Health economics, health policy, international/global health, public health, risk/benefit analysis

    391. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Evidence-based bug-related testimony here, from an *actual* lawyer:

    392. robbo says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      9 October, 2020 at 10:25 pm
      Robbo 9:52

      Away chase yirsel. The deadly plague you and some others keep referring to lasted for about 5 years. You wanna wait 5 years for herd? There’s been a few plagues over the centuries. Black death, bubonic plague blah blah. There the same thing. It still exists to this day. You can’t get rid of fleas so it picks up the bacterium from dead animals and then transfers it to humans by bites. It has a treatment. If we didn’t have antibiotics it would be killing a lot more.

      Covid does not have a cure or vaccine yet. Just some therapeutics. Bleach and Hydroxychloroquine don’t work.Grow the fuck up.

    393. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      It’s healthy to be skeptical of authority, but not when it undermines your potential to defend your biological integrity, a.k.a. your health. You get all flavours of lawyers Ian. Some support democracy others don’t.

      Please Ian, take my opinion as being legally sound. If not, prove me wrong through theory, not some random lawyer you found on t’internet, who just happens to support your insufficiently informed opinion.

    394. willie says:

      In a so called health emergency you try to mitigate infection spread every way you can.

      Well go for a street test. Phone up a day later with your test card and barcode.

      They will then tell you that they can give you the test result over the phone. But first you must disclose name, title, gender, ethnicity, Date of Birth, address, post code, email, home phone, mobile phone.

      Refuse to furnish that and you are told you can’t have your test result.

      Typhoid Mary Ya Bass, fuck you all, unless I get your details, fuck you.

      Maybe Jeane Freeman of the soon to come smart entitlement Pass Cards would like to comment. And meanwhile do I have Covid? Who cares, fuck the test it’s all about information gathering.

      Ethnicity……that’s my secret, just like the Covid test result!

    395. robbo says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 October, 2020 at 10:30 pm
      @robbo (10.18) –

      Don’t care much for the Sturgon/Salmond gate stuff Ian. I avoid it like the PLAGUE ! lol

    396. Balaaargh says:


      Thank you for posting your timeline, I consider myself one of the lucky ones in that this bloody virus has given me more work and I have to admit to repeatedly losing the plot with where we are and do we still have the same FM. I know it’s only my grapevine sources so, like everyone else’s, take with a pinch of salt but I was told the she would be out by Christmas – last Christmas. And that her inner circle were aware of this.

    397. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      You convince no one as you troll utube for versions that suit your conspirancy theory. Try thinking as a rational human being and dont give your own santimonious claptrap. No and I didn’t call you a liar just a sad individual who sees everything as a conspirancy rightly or wrongly, fairies aren’t real.

    398. Gary45% says:

      Back in the real world, Waffle Johnson & Co still to produce world class track and trace, which if they had actually got the proverbial finger out, maybe the country wouldn’t be so fkd!
      Daisy Walker, what about spending some time detailing a time line on the Tory Fk Ups!
      Oh never mind.

    399. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @robbo –

      Good one ye – at least you’ve got a sense of humour.

      An eatery recently had, as one of their stipulations for customers, ‘avoid prolonged eye contact with people at other tables’.

      (Can’t remember where I read that…mibbe it’s just an urban myth?)

    400. cirsium says:

      @Tannadice Boy, 9.53
      A full lockdown is planned at the end of October. Source Police Scotland or at least people that work for them.
      Surely not. Influenza kills thousands of people every year far more than SARS-CoV-2 but society is not shut down nor are healthy people confined during the annual wave of influenza infections. Quarantining the general population has never been done in the past because it does not stop the eventual spread of the disease, and the harm done to the health of the population and to the economy is too great. UK economic output shrank by 20.4% in the second quarter of 2020, this crash in the second quarter is the worst since records began in 1955.

      “We must not allow the cure to become worse than the disease. That long term strategy has to be a risk-based approach to living with Covid-19. This is a very unpleasant virus but, for the great majority of people, not nearly so unpleasant that we should contemplate shutting down society to deal with it. We can help individuals assess the risk to themselves and the people around them, enable everyone to mitigate those risks while ensuring that the most vulnerable are protected, and thereby minimise the need for government-led interventions. Would that work? It seems to be working in Sweden.”  
      Prof Mark Woolhouse is Chair of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh.

    401. Old Pete says:

      robbo mate
      Your wasting your time this blog is now the hate Nicola site, hate the SNP site and help the British Nationalists any way you can site.
      There are even loons on here that don’t think coronavirus is a danger but is only being used by Nicola to control us ? I hope they don’t get it for without the help they say is a waste of time and resources they might suffer long term damage or God forbid die!

    402. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Loads of angries arriving late tonight.

      Where were ye’s all? in the pub?

      (No, wait…)


    403. Gary45% says:

      Before someone says “why don’t you post a time line” what would be the point? I’d just get get abuse on Scotland No1 Indy site, for criticising the Tories.

    404. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Ian, looked at your link, got a little bored but then looked at it’s all right ,times like these & I am the passenger.

      Cheered me up no end. Dave Grohl for FM. Iggy Pop for deputy.

    405. Balaaargh says:

      @Ian Brotherhood,

      Fuellmich’s video was like watching a surgeon proclaim the earth is flat.

    406. Nell G says:

      Man I despair. The fuckwits still adore Nicola, doesn’t matter what she does, Alex was at fault anyway. I don’t know where to go from here. These people are too stupid to reason with.

    407. Joe says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Getting clearer and clearer who the shills and the psychologically weak are, eh?

      The evidence keeps surfacing. The professional voices increase in number. This avalanche keeps coming.

      Will be interesting to see who is prepared to deny reality for longest?

    408. CameronB Brodie says:

      If you want to prolong living in the real world, it’s best not to buy into crap pseudo-science and right-wing lawyers. Anyone with a CRITICAL PERSPECTIVE will tell you this. Fortunately I have one of those, so I’m able to support public health and democracy.

      Studies in Economic Ethics and Philosophy
      Contemporary Economic Ethics and Business Ethics pp 3-15

      The Theory of Ethical Economy as a Cultural, Ethical, and Historical Economics: Economic Ethics and the Historist Challenge


      The merger of two disciplines always implies that the synergetic effect works both ways. Both disciplines take over concepts of the other discipline and gain by the merger of their own concepts with those concepts they take over from the other side. In the case of the merger of ethics and economics the same process is effective.

      Ethical economy implies as well the use of ethical concepts in economic analysis as the use of economic tools or economic concepts in philosophical ethics. The second interdisciplinary transfer from economics into ethical theory has not attracted so much scholarly attention yet although there are still many synergetic effects to be won in this transfer. It will however not be in the centre of this paper.

      Business Ethic, Ethical Theory, Human Science, Economy Principle, Austrian School

    409. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Gary 45%
      Daisy Walker, what about spending some time detailing a time line on the Tory Fk Ups!
      Oh never mind.

      Firstly re Tories Bad – WGD has that very well covered.

      Secondly the timeline I’ve done, is pretty much just a list of events, with not a lot of comments from me about the events themselves.

      If you think it is making the SNP under NS look bad….. you may well have a point.

      However, since it upsets you, and you disagree with it, I suggest you skip it next time you see it.

      Stay safe, and remember, how does that poem go?

      first they came for Alex and I did nothing,
      then they couldn’t account for a large sum of ring fence moneys, and I did nothing,
      then they removed my rights of free speech, and I did nothing
      then they came for the Scottish Parliament and I did nothing
      then they came for the health service, and I did nothing
      Then they came for the water, and the renewable energy and I did nothing
      Then they came for the food standards, and introduced chlorinated chicken, and I did nothing.
      then they came for my human rights and I did nothing.

      I think you get the message by now. Try not to trip up on any mandates on the way out, there’s quite a few lying about some place.

      And if you have the time, nip over to Netflix. I highly recommend the film Hunger. The hunger strikes in NI in the 70’s, you know prior to EU membership. A lovely little example of British ‘justice’ when there is no other outside court to keep them in check. Well worth remembering any time you think the British will EVER grant a S30 unless theres some form of leverage to do so.

    410. Daisy Walker says:

      @Balaaargh says:
      9 October, 2020 at 11:29 pm
      ‘ I know it’s only my grapevine sources so, like everyone else’s, take with a pinch of salt but I was told the she (NS) would be out by Christmas – last Christmas. And that her inner circle were aware of this.’

      I heard something similar, along the lines of she’d be gone to the UN top job by April ’19. Just possibly AS declining to resign from the party and fight it in court changed that plan – if it ever existed.

    411. And spouse says:

      Dear Nicola, deliver independence and you will live forever!

    412. Beaker says:

      Tannadice Boy says:
      9 October, 2020 at 9:53 pm
      “A full lockdown is planned at the end of October. Source Police Scotland or at least people that work for them. Exchange Xmas presents now.”

      I’m picking up similar noises from a reliable source that predicted in mid February that a lockdown was imminent in March.
      At least people haven’t gone fucking crazy in Tesco… yet 🙂

    413. robbo says:

      Joe says:
      10 October, 2020 at 12:05 am

      Unless you’re some top notch scientist who has the miracle vaccine that’s gonna save the planet and put us on the the path to your self righteous liberty for all-“glory to the liberated” – beat it man.

      You are a Trumpian. Did you here that looney again today, is he your hero?
      Apparently now he’s having a go at California for sending gallons of water into pacific .

      ‘California is gonna have to ration water. You wanna know why? Because they send millions of gallons of water out to sea,’ Trump claimed

      Second clip down. Funny mad stuff from a looney.

    414. Joe says:


      Do you have a weird schoolboy fancy for Trump?

      Anyway..tick tock my friend. Tick tock

      You know whats absolutely beautiful? I don’t have to argue now, or paste CDC links, or point out the obvious numbers or anything else. This is being picked up more and more by the professionals and it will soon be unstoppable 🙂


    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is possibly going to be hard for some to accept, but I’ve studied the ideological nature of science and law. In order to do this, I had to study the brain science of human reason and societal organisation. That was a very long time ago, but I thought I’ve not done too bad a job of passing on helpful, practical, ethically sourced insight into this knowledge. The ambivalence and open hostility to this advice is somewhat frustrating, though not unexpected. So it’s just as well I’m getting back into the swing of things. 😉

      Remember, Tories don’t cope well with change, complexity, or difference. That’s why they’re Tories. 🙂

      Journal of Social and Political Psychology, Vol 1, No 1 (2013)
      Special Thematic Section on “Societal Change”

      A Complex Systems Approach to the Study of Ideology: Cognitive-Affective Structures and the Dynamics of Belief Systems


      We propose a complex systems approach to the study of political belief systems, to overcome some of the fragmentation in the current scholarship on ideology. We review relevant work in psychology, sociology, and political science and identify major cleavages in the literature: the spatial vs. non-spatial divide (ideologies as reducible to a spatially organized set of dimensions vs. as complex conceptual structures) and the person-group problem (ideologies as driven by psychological needs of individuals vs. by institutional and power structures of society).

      We argue that construing ideologies as conceptual networks of cognitive-affective representations embedded in social networks of people may provide a path for bridging these existing gaps and epistemological disputes. Tools from cognitive science and computational social science such as cognitive-affective mapping, connectionist simulations, and agent-based modeling are appropriate methods for a new research program that substantiates our complex systems perspective on ideology.

      Keywords: ideology, belief systems, complex systems, social change, cognitive-affective mapping, computational modeling

    416. Joe says:

      @Cameron B Brodie

      You are right. I don’t accept it. Anyone with some useful knowledge wouldn’t spend 12+ hours per day 7 days per week spamming the absolute shit out of someone elses blog with irrelevant links and constant assurances of their own (apparent?) education and (obvious?) intelligence.

      Its fucking pathetic!

      You’re not a secret wee tory by any chance?

    417. CameronB Brodie says:

      I saw you coming a very long time ago. Fortunately I’m trained to deal with the radical right, so you’ve no chance of out-arguing me. So why not just get away and play with yourself?

      A minimalistic model of bias, polarization and misinformation in social networks

    418. Joe says:

      I know! Every time I have argued with you, you go full blown critical-genius on me and tell me to ‘fuck off’ and then complain that you don’t read so well because of your brain damage.

      Im baffled by such critical insight. Astounding genius.

    419. Benhope says:

      Martin Laird second round of 65, tied for the lead on -14.

      At Wentworth Grant Forest doing very well at -8 but you are unlikely to see him play as the cameras follow Westwood and Poulter although they are well down the leaderboard.

      Oh well if we don`t have our own media we will have to suck it up!!!!

    420. CameronB Brodie says:

      You’ve just got little imagination and pretty obvious supremacist and exclusionary beliefs. Never heard that neuro-plasticity is a thing, or that anti-Semitic tendencies are bad?

      The Neuroscience of Growth Mindset and
      Intrinsic Motivation

    421. Ruglonian says:

      For Daisy 🙂

      Timeline additions/revisions

      18/9/14 – Scottish independence referendum.

      7/5/15 – UKGE

      5/5/16 – Holyrood election.

      23/6/16 – UK EU membership election.

      13/3/17 – launched. Sturgeon confirms she will ask for permission to hold IndyRef2.

      16/3/17 – Now Is Not The Time. May officially rejects Sturgeon’s IndyRef2 timeline.

      4/5/17 – Scottish local elections.

      8/6/17 – UKGE

      13/6/17 – taken down at £482,000 of £1m target.

      Oct 17 – ScotGov reviews complaints policy.

      29/10/17 – Aamer Anwar’s allegation of “ticking time bomb” “catalogue” of sexual harassment in Holyrood.

      Nov 17 – procedure of complaints against former ministers added.

      Nov 17 – Evans confirmed she raised the issue with Sturgeon after learning about media interest in an incident at Edinburgh Airport in 2008-9. Airport informed Angus Robertson (can’t pin down when).

      Jan 18 – formal investigation began.

      25/3/19 – Dugdale defamation case trial begins.
      (Suggest the inclusion of result & appeal too, as all are significant re ’support’ shown)

      24/4/19 – launched

      20/6/19 – Not Only Angels Have Wings – Salmond Show interview.

      Pre-GE19 – 1st NEC attempt to sideline Cherry.

      2/11/19 – The National’s Rally For Independence. FM electioneers for GE19 with IndyRef2020 pledge.

      12/12/19 – UKGE

      1/4/20 – Garavelli piece on Salmond trial which contained jigsaw id of anonymous accuser.

    422. Joe says:

      @Cameron B Brodie

      It’s understandable your stance towards me. But what is truly, mind blowingly pathetic and evidence of a damaged and unhealthy man is the sheer level of obnoxious, pompous, snooty superiority you treat people who are actually sympathetic to you.

      Take some advice – save your bullshit for the undesirable curious minds of society like myself. Treat the people who are on your side a little better. Mmmkay wee man? I bet the Royal Village Idiot Convention (or whatever it is you went to once) didn’t teach you that nugget of wisdom when they were forcing circus theory into your head!

    423. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve simply been trying to rise above your level of logic and debate. I’m also pretty good at finding my way through life, so I’ll not be taking any advice from you sunshine.

      Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, 2017; 11: 145.
      Published online 2017 Mar 24
      The Emerging Neuroscience of Intrinsic Motivation: A New Frontier in Self-Determination Research

    424. Joe says:

      Clearly 😉

    425. CameronB Brodie says:

      As I said, I saw Joe coming a very long time ago. Possibly before he relocated back to Scotland from the USA. That’s if he’s actually a real person, of course.

      Archives of Clinical Psychiatry (São Paulo), vol.40 no.3 São Paulo 2013
      Psychoanalysis and its role in brain plasticity: much more than a simple bla, bla, bla

    426. twathater says:

      @ Daisy Walker 12.14am a very erudite and mannerly response to Gary 45%, I have responded to Gary previously and QH I think Gary is angry and disappointed as we all are at the revelations coming out with ref to the massive clusterbourach of the current SNP and NS
      I personally don’t think Gary and others are WILLING to accept or process what is becoming more apparent by the day, their belief has been betrayed and they are unwilling to accept that, hence the sniping, the sooner NS, Murrel and the wokeists go the better to re-engage the indy fight and STU can get on with targeting and exposing the WM cabal

    427. Albalha says:

      Today’s Times reports that Nicola Sturgeon didn’t send the committee all the WhatsApp messages, Alex Salmond would be happy to supply them.

    428. Albalha says:

      The timeline posted by Ruglonian reminded me of that sensationalist, unsourced, never backed up, Aamer Anwar front page Sunday Herald exclusive (understand was meant to be in the Sunday Mail originally which was/is his usual go to with stories paper, indeed the complainant against Mark McDonald even blogged ahead of time saying it was to appear in the Sunday Mail, she and Aamer Anwar were close friends at the time, apparently.)

      So two weeks before the Anwar article the Sunday Post featured testimony from women talking about harrassment in light of Me Too, including SNP staffer Rosa Zambonini and committee member Angela Constance.

      The front pages two days after the Anwar article on 31/10.

      And Rosa Zabonini posts on her public blog:
      ‘Have I been harrassed in the Scottish Parliament? Yes. I will not be scared of a backlash. I will not be dictated to’

      And did this public interview with the name of the Mark McDonald tweets complainant ever materialise?

      17/08/20 (Ahead of the appalling Kirsty wark ‘documentary’) -‘She is speaking out to voice support for the women at the centre of the trial of ex-first minister Alex Salmond – which features in a BBC documentary tonight’

      And on 4/11/17 reports of Mark McDonald’s resignation, and another ‘non-parliamentarian’being investigated.

      He is one of two SNP members currently being investigated by the party over possible misconduct.

      ‘It is understood the allegations against him are not criminal in nature. The other complaint being investigated by the SNP does not relate to a parliamentarian’

    429. madridjim says:

      Of course they are going to enjoy taking Sturgeon out. Did no one notice the smirk and conspiratorial nod directed at Ken MacKintosh after Davidson was finished?

      They are the cat playing with the mouse and will enjoy every bead of sweat and squirm from the FM until her agreed successor, Angus “absolutely no Progress whatsoever hahaha” Robertson, has been officially named as candidate for the Edinburgh Central Constituency.

      Damage will be inflicted on the SNP and the wider YES movement but the cork in the Indy bottle will remain firmly in place under Robertson and the NEC.

    430. Joe says:

      Don’t you just love multiculturalism

      Imagine if this were the other way around?

      Of course the backlash will be by those evil nasty white supremacist nazi’s. Clearly.

    431. stonefree says:

      @ crazycat at 8:03 pm

      You are not wrong ,Daddy Sturgeon stood twice at a by-election and then the council election
      firstly the By election was cause by the resignation of Ruth MacGuire (NEC member?)who won the election of MSPs.
      She didn’t have to resign, she could have stayed for the next 18 or so months
      MacGuire in resigning ,and Paw not get elected caused the SNP to loose control of NAC,The leader of the Council was in Italy at the time of the resignation and is believed to have known what was going to happen , Some of the SNP group said the by election would be a “scoosh case”
      And then it really went tits-up

    432. Albalha says:

      In reply to crazycat, not conclusive but
      certainly seems to suggest her parents weren’t

      ‘The 42-year-old’s family were not overtly political when she was growing up, although her mother now serves as an SNP councillor for North Ayrshire. But she later learned her grandfather had been an SNP member in the 1960s’

    433. stonefree says:

      @ willie at 8:39 pm

      I’m informed that Gibson is shitting a brick, as there are a couple of wokies waiting in the wings( Gavin Lundy is supposed to be one,personally I don’t see that one)
      Witness his recent featuring in the Herald. Plus it’s reasonably safe to say he is seriously disliked by 7 Councillors, 3 in particular
      It’s seems that Humza Yousaf by what is being said , Gibson and Humza Yousaf are no longer best buddies

    434. Albalha says:

      In reply to Stonefree, assuming this wikipedia NEC list is up to date then yes Ruth Maguire is on it.

      The 42 members of the current National Executive Committtee:

      President: Ian Hudghton
      Leader: Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)
      Depute Leader: Keith Brown MSP (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
      National Treasurer: Colin Beattie MSP (Midlothian North and Musselburgh)
      National Secretary: Dr Angus MacLeod
      Business Convener: Kirsten Oswald MP (East Renfrewshire)
      Organisation Convener: Stacy Bradley
      Local Government Convener: Cllr Ellen Forson (Clackmannanshire South)
      Women’s Convener: Cllr Rhiannon Spear (Greater Pollok)
      Equalities Convener: Fiona Robertson
      Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Convener: Cllr Graham Campbell (Springburn/Robroyston)
      Disabled Members’ Convener: Morag Fulton
      Member Support Convener: Douglas Daniel
      Policy Development Convener: Alyn Smith MP (Stirling)
      Tommy Sheppard MP (Edinburgh East) (Scottish Parliament and House of Commons parliamentary groups)
      Alison Thewliss MP (Glasgow Central) (Scottish Parliament and House of Commons parliamentary groups)
      Cllr Lynne Anderson (Stepps, Chryston and Muirhead) (Central Scotland Regional Association)
      Cllr Cameron McManus (Murdostoun) (Central Scotland Regional Association)
      Cllr Christina Cannon (Springburn/Robroyston) (Glasgow Regional Association)
      Alexander Kerr (Glasgow Regional Association)
      Munro Ross (Highlands and Islands Regional Association)
      Laura Mitchell (Highlands and Islands Regional Association)
      Roz Currie (Lothian Regional Association)
      Andrew Diack (Lothian Regional Association)
      Rhuaraidh Fleming (Mid Scotland and Fife Regional Association)
      Mireille Pouget (Mid Scotland and Fife Regional Association)
      Cllr Christian Allard (Torry/Ferryhill) (North East Scotland Regional Association)
      Dorothy Jessiman (North East Scotland Regional Association)
      Cllr Heather Anderson (Tweeddale West) (South Scotland Regional Association)
      Cllr Rob Davidson (Abbey) (South Scotland Regional Association)
      Emma Hendrie (West Scotland Regional Association)
      Robert Innes (West Scotland Regional Association)
      Ruth Maguire MSP (Cunninghame South) (Scottish Parliament parliamentary group)
      Chris Law MP (Dundee West) (House of Commons parliamentary group)
      Bailie Norman MacLeod (Pollokshields) (Association of Nationalist Councillors)
      Greg McCarra (SNP Trade Union Group)
      Jamie Szymkowiaka (Disabled Members Group)
      Cailyn McMahon (Young Scots for Independence)
      a member representing the SNP BAME Network
      Abdul Majida (Scots Asians for Independence)
      Julia Stachurska (SNP Students)
      Josh Mennie (Out for Independence)

    435. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Check the state of this – Lesley Evans now issuing statements to the nation.

      Who does she think she is?

      Leslie Evans
      Congratulations to everyone in Scotland recognised in the Queen’s Birthday Honours, including
      and agency colleagues, and recipients of the Fire, Police & Ambulance Service medals #ThankYou #Honours2020
      10:05 AM · Oct 10, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

    436. Daisy Walker says:

      Joe at 1012am

      I read your article, ‘gangs of black youths in IRELAND’.

      How many gangs of black youths in IRELAND are there likely to be? Just out of interest. Appreciate there are black people in Ireland, but how many GANGS of BLACK YOUTHS are there.

      Last I heard there were concerns about large numbers of poor Rumanians, but GANGS OF BLACK YOUTHS….

      Used to be whenever they wanted to pad out a young and willing ‘journalist’s’ CV they would refer to them as having covered stories of ‘joyriding gangs in Belfast’.

      By which they meant that they actually reported that wee Jimmy no hope, got 6 months in community service for stealing a scheme car runabout.

      But you know, if your don’t stop to actually question whether the words make sense, at first glance, it almost appears genuine.

    437. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @stonefree –

      And Kenny Gibson actually stood up in the parliament and asked the FM an awkward question about the GRA stuff. She was not happy about it.

      (Sorry I don’t have a date but I remember watching him and thinking ‘oooh-er, Kenny, your card could be getting marked mister.’)

    438. Joe says:

      @Daisy Walker

      If you have a quick step into reality you will see that Ireland has been the target of mass EU 3rd world migration program for a while now and it is set to ramp up.

      Welcome to planet Earth.

      This article is nothing. A judge on the ‘grooming’ gangs case in England has stepped back from the task as now there is more than a 37,000 case backlog.

      Authorities, police, councilors, everybody stood back and let the mass r*pe of mainly English girls happen in order to avoid ‘community tensions’ for decades. As many of the brutal testimonies state – they were r*ped, beaten, trafficked and tortured because they were ‘dirty English sl*ts’.

      Of course the useful idiots who don’t like ugly truths are helping this to happen.

      Woke types tend not to have to worry though – the application of harsh lslamic rules on women tend only to be enforced on the more attractive ones for some reason.

    439. Albalha says:

      In reply to Ian Brotherhood
      Kenny Gibson and his GRA/prisons question at
      FMQs 16/01/20

    440. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Do you not see what sort of racist armhole Joe is? Kindly waken the fuck up man, or piss off an join the far-right. As that’s who’s opinion you appear agree with.

    441. Andy Ellis says:


      Ireland (2016 figures) is 92.4% white, 2.1% Asian, 1.3% Black and 1.5% Other.

      The same year shows around 120,000 Poles and a similar number for all the other “new ” EU states in central & E. Europe.

      Hardly vast amounts in a population of just short of 5 million.

      Why are so many alt-right types obsessed with non-white people committing sexual offences? One might almost think it was a smoke screen for being a vicious racist?

    442. Albalha says:

      Forgot about Aamer Anwar being the advisor for the woman who was sent the texts by Mark McDonald. Why as a parliament staff member did she need advice/guidance from a lawyer?

      ”In a car crash interview, Radio Scotland host Gary Robertson said “Good morning”, immediately followed by: “Are you a sex pest?”

      McDonald replied: “No.” Lawyer Aamer Anwar, advising Mr Dornan’s worker, blasted McDonald’s claim he would swerve victims at Holyrood”

    443. CameronB Brodie says:

      My poor proof reading can be quite amusing at times, though I suppose that’s because there’s little else to laugh about when stripped of legal identity, and your cultural identity is suppressed by the state. 🙁

      Science Advances, 04 Oct 2017: Vol. 3, no. 10
      Structural plasticity of the social brain: Differential change after socio-affective and cognitive mental training

    444. Joe says:

      @Andy Ellis

      2016 figures? Still relevant then…

      A vicious racist?

      Or what about a spineless ideologue that has a hard time with facts that challenge his empty eyed, pink tinted view of the world while innocent people suffer in order to prop up his own delusions?

      Did you sign that petition to release the information on the grooming gangs that I linked here a while ago?

      I bet you didn’t. Because your fantasies count more to you than actual harm caused by the real world. Out of sight out of mind. We can all hold hands and be as one. Etc

    445. Joe says:

      @Cameron B Brodie

      Ian Brotherhood I think is probably quite aware of the ‘ugly’ opinions I have. For which I am happy to have a conversation with anybody and prepared to be proven wrong. We all know that conversation won’t happen though. On any forum.

      He can speak for himself as I can.

      Just because he defended 1 or 2 points I made doesn’t mean he is ‘on my team’ for fuck sake, and by the looks of it Ian seems to be a far more polite, respectful and sincere individual than you, you brain damaged, arrogant, clueless little bigot.

    446. CameronB Brodie says:

      I do have a tendency to shoot from the hip and to speak bluntly, but don’t for a minute try to claim moral or intellectual superiority to me sunshine. Your populist twisting of truth, and the discourse tack-ticks you apply to undermine loyalties, hasn’t gone unnoticed. That’s because I know how the radical right operates, and can spot you as a rather nasty and dangerous individual. Others blt simply appear to lack the perspective to recognise you for the sleekit and racist authoritarian you appear to be.

      Ethics and Economics: an Internal Relation

    447. Joe says:

      @Cameron B Brodie

      Because someone disagreed with you on covid, and happened to agree with me in that same subject, you are attempting to compare him with the beyond-the-pale groups you assume that I am involved with.

      That is fucking disgusting. Honestly. That is the workings of a serious low life.

    448. stonefree says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 11:29 am

      I didn’t know he ACTUALLY got up off his arse and spoke, That being said .I did say more or less “his tea is oot”
      Someone mentioned a proposal by Arran Branch SNP,to do with adding it or a variation of into their local branch conditions
      I think that is to do with Local for Local positions .
      Incidentally Gibson has spent his life as Councillor(Glasgow) and MSP (NAC), I am not sure he has ever worked In the real world

    449. CameronB Brodie says:

      You simply can’t stop yourself twisting the truth, can you? My training enables me to defend democracy from fascism, and my analysis of your discourse leads me to consider you to be a rather nasty individual, who holds some rather dangerous beliefs. So you’re on to plumbs trying to undermine my position, sunshine.

      Finance & Development, March 2018, Vol. 55, No. 1
      Point of View
      Restoring Ethics to Economics

    450. crazycat says:

      @ stonefree at 10.52 and *lbalha at 11.14

      Thanks. I was fairly sure that was the case, but I didn’t want to be too dogmatic about it.

      Gavin Lundy has certainly put his name forward for Ayr (currently Tory-held), for which he has competition. Is he also after Cunninghame North?

    451. Andy Ellis says:


      You think there’s been a huge deluge in the last 4 years?


      I wasn’t aware of any petition, but from what I’ve seen of your output on here, it IS very unlikely I’d sign it on your recommendation. Of course, it’s not outwith the realms of possibility that you and I agree on specific issues, but that doesn’t mean you are not otherwise a vicious racist.

      It is a truth universally acknowledged that those fixated with Asian grooming gangs and the narrative of mass immigration being a threat are not folk that represent the early days of a better nation, rather they represent the old days of a worse nation.

      You and your clueless alt-right compadres can GTF.

    452. Joe says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Just remember you are getting worked up that someone brought the issue up.

      Not the issue itself.

      That means your love of the idea of peaceful multicultural future (not totally impossible with some reasonable discernment, which we aren’t seeing) comes before the hard facts of the rape of masses of little girls and violence against other people.

      You are the ideological extremist. Not me.

    453. Joe says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Just remember you are getting worked up that someone brought the issue up.

      Not the issue itself.

      That means your love of the idea of peaceful multicultural future (not totally impossible with some reasonable discernment, which we aren’t seeing) comes before the hard facts of the r*pe of masses of little girls and violence against other people.

      You are the ideological extremist. Not me.

    454. Andy Ellis says:


      Well, no…I’m getting worked up at vicious racists posting BTL on WoS and alt-right wing nuts exploiting crimes against children to further their deeply regressive and repulsive weltanschauung.

      The fact you can’t see that and try to hide behind the piss poor “don’t shoot the messenger” schtick tells us everything we need to know about you and your motivations Joe.

      As Maya Angelou famously observed, when somebody tells you what they are, believe them.

      We hear you. We see you.

    455. Albalha says:

      Reply to Crazycat
      Seems Gavin Lundy only standing in Ayr – so far, that I’ve seen, in Cunninghame North against Gibson – Humza Yousaf’s
      cousin Osama Bhutta (Osama Saeed when he stood as the SNP candidate for WM in 2010 Glasgow Central, beaten by Anas Sarwar) and Corri Wilson.

    456. Joe says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I’ve seen you pish your wee frilly panties every time something like that comes up. You simply cannot take anything on the other side of the argument as anything other than ‘vicious racism’.

      And yes, it is true – the fact that someone brings the subject up is more offensive to you than the actual fact of what has gone on and is going on. A.k.a – the real world.

      If just one BAME child was put through this by a group of English men aligned to some far right group for ideological reasons YOU and your kind (and the media and every big money organisation) would simply not shut up about it and cry your little womans tears and wring your hands and whatever other pish it is you do to convince yourself that you are a moral person who cares. Flip it on its head and you go for the jugular of the messenger.

      This is why the police, the social workers and politicians let it go on for so long because they (disgusting cowards that they are) didn’t want to face the charge of racism from the masses of hypocrites like yourself.

      Its enough to make anyone puke.

    457. AndSpouse says:

      Hey Stu, who would you vote for in Banff n Buchan? Indy or female rights?

    458. Andy Ellis says:


      The idea that anyone as blinkered as you can meaningfully see anything beyond the red mist of their bigotry will be news to the good hearted ordinary folk of WoS.

      Brown shirts gonna brown shirt.

    459. Daisy Walker says:

      Dear Joe,

      The sexual abuse scandal in the North of England is obviously something heavy on your heart. The corruption in north of England politics – across all the parties, is longstanding.

      It was there in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s a prime example being Cyril Smith sexually abusing young boys in care homes. Local people, local politicians, and national, assisted and covered up his crimes. Rewarded him even.

      This endemic corruption throughout public life, set the foundation for the next scandal, involving Asian males, in the same area.

      Corruption is corruption.

      I sincerely hope the people of England, in every capacity, manage to sort it out and wish them every success.

      Kind regards.

    460. holymacmoses says:

      Under SG Complaints Procedure and Engagement with the Police.

      19. Throughout the process, all available steps will be taken to support the staff member and ensure they are protected from any harmful behaviour. However, if at any point it becomes apparent to the SG that criminal behaviour might have occurred the SG may bring the matter directly to the attention of the Police. Also, if it becomes apparent that the matter being raised is part of a wider pattern of behaviour it may be necessary for the SG to consider involving the Police in light of the information provided. Should either of these steps be necessary the staff member will be advised and supported throughout.

      Since when was the Scottish Government in charge of which crimes should or should not be reported to the police?

    461. Joe says:

      @Daisy Walker

      ‘The sexual abuse scandal in the North of England is obviously something heavy on your heart.’

      This, and the complete complicity to cover for the perpetrators, should be an outrage to anyone.

      These crimes were committed mainly against working class English white girls because they were working class English white girls by foreigners holding to a supremacist religion and it has been brushed under the carpet by absolutely everyone.

      This while diversity is being rammed down our throats and people who advise caution being smeared as racists. In the current context of 10’s of thousands of English girls being put through obscene abuse and even losing their lives it is racist to simply say ‘white lives matter’ or even ‘all lives matter’.

      Your whataboutery is very telling also.

      These crimes were committed by foreign men, with a foreign religion because the victims were not of their own kind. Yet we are to simply not talk about what it might mean if we keep importing people of the same ethnic, religious and cultural heritage as these?

      Importing people from a country where women are seen as the property of men and then wondering why the men are acting like total animals and who oppose our values?

      I hate progressives.

    462. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Joe

      I hate corruption.

      Cyril Smith ( white English male) was sexually abusing young boys in care homes. The people in the care homes, the local councils, national politicians, police, business people, press, secret service – covered up for him.

      He was given a Lordship.

      Once the system that is meant to protect, is broken, it fails to work, even when the next perpetrator to come along is not White English.

      I hope the people of England sort out this corruption. I wish them every success and am in no doubt its a huge task ahead of them.

    463. Andy Ellis says:


      You hate “progressives” because you’re an alt-right supporting, regressive wing nut. You’re no different from the whites in the American south who calumnated blacks and argued in favour of segregation.

      The reason “white lives matter” and “all lives matter” are massive red flags is not because people don’t agree that objectively such lives matter, it’s because these symbols are indelibly stained with the taint of white supremacism and the kind of Trumpian rhetoric the vast majority of right thinking people reject.

      The “diversity is being rammed down our throats” line is also hardly symptomatic of someone most of us would be happy to associate with. It’s the kind of sub Tommy Robinson stuff we’d expect from the less reputable edges of the Tory party and UKIP.

      As Daisy rightly pointed out above, it’s perfectly possible to decry the actions of the police, social services and politicians who let vulnerable young people down without resorting to racist tropes and stereo-types. Ill intentioned people, or out and out racists, have no truck with nuance though, do they Joe?

      It is perfectly admissible in their (and obviously your) deeply xenophobic and twisted imaginations to paint all muslims, or indeed any vaguely coffee coloured folk with the brush of a tiny minority of wrong doers. Indeed, so unthinking is their spittle flecked hatred it extends to any foreigners or folk exhibiting difference, even white European immigrants from Eastern and Central Europe for “stealing our jobs” or “swamping us” or being “benefit scroungers”. Of course it doesn’t matter that they have no evidence, because it just *feels* right, doesn’t it?

      Folk who describe others as “animals” are already pretty far down the line towards concentration camps and ethnic cleansing. Such extremists exist in every polity and have been emboldened by the alt-right, Trump, brexit and cancel culture generally. Scratch the surface of views like yours and you’ll soon find the trifecta: anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, and “white/all lives matter”.

    464. Joe says:

      @Andy & Daisy

      Im not racist. Im simply not politically correct.

      The British act like scum in certain other parts of the world, including in our own country.

      Pakistani muslims act like scum in certain settings also.

      There is simply nothing controversial about saying this unless one is brainwashed with the mind cancer of hyper progressive thinking.

      But – the problem progressives have with incidents of hatred against white/European people is that we both know intuitively that if it were seen to be sensible to act with discernment on the importation or acceptance of just 1 culture/group then that would open the door to common sense regarding the mixing of cultures who are very alien to one another and, god forbid, Europeans having their position in Europe guarded in terms of demographics.

      You know, deeply, that to concede just 1 means the multicultural bubble of bullshit is popped.

      The situation is that working class Europeans are getting sick of being thrown under the bus by firstly corporate elites out to undermine their living standard and then told to be quiet by politically correct do gooders (mostly middle class) in regards to their worsening situation.

      Having experience in Europe and very poor countries this is why I utterly fucking detest progressives.

    465. Billy says:

      The FOI process is a way of receiving copies of recorded information. It is not a mechanism for asking for an answer to any question that you wish to pose. So asking “can you explain why the CEU, representing the Scottish Government, was a year and a half later still officially denying that it ever happened?” is not an FOI request, the legislation does not require the public body to provide explanations. Similarly “Was the CEU covering up for the First Minister? Or did the First Minister fail to inform the CEU of the meeting after she’d remembered it, having for some reason failed to properly record it at the time it happened?” is not a FOI request. Finally “Were any other Scottish Government staff, who also had a duty to record the meeting, present during it? If so, who were they and why did they not do so?” is almost (partly) a FOI request – asking for a copy of who was in attendance is appropriate, asking why some people were not there isn’t. I say this as someone who has to deal with FoIs on a regular basis. Because of the way the request has been submitted, I suspect you won’t get much of a response to your questions. This doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be asked, just don’t expect the FOI route to assist (in fact, using it increases the likelihood of an “information not held” type response).

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