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Forever bad

Posted on August 09, 2017 by

Here’s Daniel Sanderson in the Times in January this year, complaining that too few university students come from poor backgrounds and therefore the SNP are bad:

So he’d be chuffed if that situation improved, right?

But here’s the same author in the same newspaper today, reporting the news that the proportion of university pupils from poorer families has indeed risen sharply (by 13%):

Statistics come and statistics go, but in the Scottish media one truth is eternally fixed, standing firm like a rock in the storm-tossed seas of fluctuating fact: SNP BAD.

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    1. 09 08 17 12:57

      Forever bad | speymouth

    102 to “Forever bad”

    1. Macart says:

      Clocked that piece earlier and couldn’t believe my eyes.

      They’ve gone beyond any kind of pretence at this point. The shark has been jumped, along with the pier, the beach, the car park and the roadside bus stop.

      The meeja and their chain tuggers are in full on warp factor farce.

    2. packhorse pete says:

      Usual risible nonsense from so-called journalists. I do wonder what their self esteem must be like, being forced to write propaganda pap like this.

    3. Fairliered says:

      Here’s another eternally fixed truth. SCOTTISH JOURNALISM BAD.

    4. bobajock says:

      Macart noted the shark being jumped. Its on a yoonionist bungee!

      They are not journalists, they are lemmings.

    5. Pentland Firth says:

      Precisely my thoughts this morning when I saw the headlines in the the Times and Daily Telegraph. I wasn’t angry. I just laughed at their propaganda, and, I’m glad to report, the newsagent shared my hilarity.

    6. Proud Cybernat says:

      They simply move the goalposts. Even if 100% of Scots school kids left school into University they’d be screaming how the Universities couldn’t cope as they were being inundated with students, lots of them poor and some even from migrant families and that the terribly bad badly SNP need to do something about it.

      You know how they operate…

    7. Ghillie says:

      Jings, there’s just no pleasing some folk.

    8. George Drever says:

      If ever there was an appropriate use for a LOL, this is it.

    9. Calum McKay says:

      It appears to be all out war against the SNP from all unionist organisations cheered on and encouraged by bbc and press.

      Yesterday labour was reduced to saying that the SNP policy was not working, the results were very good, but this was down to other factors.

      Long may SNP Govenments be criticised of very good results ‘for something they have not done’ according to the opposition.

      What is labour for other than reminding us how badly a country could be run?

    10. HandandShrimp says:

      Very hard to take that sort of churnalism seriously. The a priori position is SNP/Scotland bad and any event/policy/decision must therefore be bad even if that means ditching a fiercely argued position held only the day before (Kezia is brilliant at this).

      Sanderson does have form for being a tube though.

    11. Robert Graham says:

      its about time the Dastardly SNP owned up , they have been caught red handed continually aggravating the scottish media , every day they contrive to cause upset , and make sure they definatly continue to disregard the poor down trodden public , to hell with making things easier for people the message must get out there .
      Independence – Independence it’s all they think about morning till night and bugger running the country , AYE SO THEY WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE . and every day they make sure their readers know it .

    12. mike cassidy says:

      Only last month Sanderson was tweeting attention to this article about the ‘failure’ of free tuition to attract poor kids to university.

      Its not fully available but the archive will give you the basics.

      No doubt he is already writing an article about the cruelty of the SNP raising the educational standards of poor pupils – only to dash their hopes by not charging them for their higher education.

    13. Legerwood says:

      Below is a link to a short article from 2015 in TES.

      It shows that in Scotland in the 10 years to 2015 the percentage of students from poorer backgrounds going to uni had doubled. You

    14. gordoz says:

      #ScoPressBAD ? (Again)

    15. No matter what the SNP does, it is not good enough for the MSM. As far as I’m concerned the main stream media is full of shit when it comes to political stuff in the papers.

    16. Walter Scott says:

      As long as the SNP are in power these people will move the goalposts. It’s just how it is.

    17. Ken500 says:

      20% of children come from poorer backgrounds. Increased from 18% under the Tories.

      13% of students come from poorer backgrounds. An increase of 3% in Scotland. If the increase continues. 3% a year. The gap will be closed within two years.

      What is Westminster doing about the increase in children in poorer backgrounds because of the Tory policies.

      55% of the population in Scotland go to University. One of the highest in the world. 30% from school and 25% mature students. Plus college places and apprenticeships. 92% of pupilis go not to College, Uni and apprenticeships.

      Scotland has one of the best education system in the world. Higher pro area number of universities.

      5.4 million pop. 15 Universities. The best in the world.

      Finland 5million pop 10 Universities + Colleges
      South Korea pop 100 million 2000 Universities 45 public.

    18. gus1940 says:


      I have just received my copy of the new Private Eye.

      On page 38 there is an article on Leaky Reactors at both Dounreay and on the Trident boats.

      If the article is telling the truth we in Scotland should all be very worried.

      Unsurprisingly although this problem has existed since 2012 nothing has appeared in our wonderful media.

      It is essential that this situation is publicised far and wide and not restricted to PE.

    19. Ken500 says:

      @ pre text

      92% of pupils go on to College, uni, apprenticeship.

    20. gordoz says:

      Ahh Daniel Sanderson or as he was known at the Herald ‘Mini-me’.

      Gardham taught him everything he needed to know about making an easy living in Scotchland. (Very likely he’ll end up at Tory central – same trajectory).

      Piss poor attempt at reporting as highlighted by WoS.

    21. David says:

      There was some eeejit yesterday, supposed to be someone clever in education, a guy aged about 70, he said the results where good but only because the standards had dropped, they brung in some parents and they could not make head nor tail of the questions in the exam papers, lets be honest about this, learning is like everything else its just knowledge retention for the use of, if its not carried into everyday life, or in your working life its all just a waste of educational time
      I had a woman from my local council , she had something to do with houses, she never worked on a house, all she new was that a house had four walls and a roof, i said to her i am sick of changing my fuse wire when there is an electrical surge, i want trip fuses put into my main electrical box, she said, you should not be changing fuse wire, i think she thought i could electrocute myself or something, i said to her, that’s where my father and others where going wrong, they should all have called out an electrician every time their fuses blew, and BTW she had a university education, yes she looks good on paper, but don’t ask her about fuses, you will only upset her , the poor dear ! heh heh heh

    22. starlaw says:

      Under both Labour and Tory children from poorer areas were encouraged into their further education, the coal mines,
      farms, fishing boats, etc. University was no place for them and any who did make it got a pretty hard time from their so called betters.

    23. Macbeda says:

      Another way to look at it is that there was a 30% increase in the number of poor students attending higher education.

      We can all play silly buggers with numbers.

    24. orri says:

      Think with these guys it’s the shark, on water skis, that jumps the Fonz.

    25. Helena Brown says:

      Pretty sure I heard on the Propaganda Channel at lunch time that Skye was full to bursting with tourists, how it ius so remote, yet another SNP bad moment from the bringers of Project Fear. If we had no tourism, same thing.

    26. cearc says:

      Helena Brown,

      It’s games’ day in Skye.

    27. manandboy says:

      The only education that the British Establishment and their Media lackeys are interested in, is one stripped of the truth about the British Establishment. The only results they’re concerned with are about staying in power, extracting maximum wealth for themselves and keeping the voters in the dark. Educating the poor is the last thing they want.

    28. wull2 says:

      Its all the SNPs fault for the media having to create false information.

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      Too many tourists in Kirkwall, too many in Skye

      …introduce Lynx to thin a few out…not tourists, the churnalists 😉

    30. Robert Graham says:

      Surely there must come a point when even the most dyed in the wool unionist , must instinctively know something is not right with our media , things dont make sense .
      The media in general in scotland are doing nobody any favours , when half the country dosent believe anything they pronounce , This is a worrying state of affairs , one day they will hit on a real scandle a real failure , yet it will fall on deaf ears , not a good situation in a democracy for anyone , this includes “YES” supporters .

    31. heedtracker says:

      The Times used to thunder but now ancient tax dodging lecher Murdoch’s got it.

      BBC news is worse though, a lot worse. But it is easy money, tory hackdom, but even those gimps would rather be watching porno, than er, working for a living.

    32. Cactus says:

      @ the corporate media (aka the MSM)

      YOU have been placed under detention and have been awarded with the following punishment exercise… 100 lines of..

      I must not tell lies to the people of Scotland.
      I must not tell lies to the people of Scotland.
      I must not tell lies to the people of Scotland.
      I must not tell lies to the people of Scotland.
      I must not tell lies to the people of Scotland.

      x95 to go.

      Congratulations to Wings on truth article number 4,500!

    33. Les Wilson says:

      Helena Brown says:

      Yes, but not only in Skye. Edinburgh is bursting at the seams!
      It is like a fair park!, apparently.

      They were trying to get people to condemn tourism, they want it to be baaad for Scotland and they want to disrupt a very important industry for us. They do it is sleekit ways as always. That is how they work.

      I doubt very much they would try this against, say, London!

    34. Giving Goose says:

      Something that I have noticed with a Britnat that I know very well, is the level of what I would describe as cultural shock on display when I point out the extreme manipulation of information by the MSM, especially the BBC.

      The mindset goes something like this;

      Britain is “Great”.
      Britain is a paragon of virtue, a place where fair play is always on show.
      Britain’s institutions are examples to the world.
      Britain’s institutions are the pillars of the fair and noble state that is Britain.

      When you take an institution, e.g. the British MSM or narrow it down to the BBC and then evidentially prove that the revered institution is corrupt, indulges in lies and manipulation, then that does come as a severe shock to some.

      In the case of the Britnat that I know well, there is a reaction akin to a child plugging their ears and shouting “La, La, La..I’m not listening!”

      Sadly for a great many people in Scotland, the revered status of “Britain” and it’s institutions does not stand up to scrutiny and that truth is very hard to swallow. It can be fun pointing this out to them, but it can also be a very sad experience for the Britnat.

      Sometimes you then receive in reply excuses, or a lashing out at the Yes movement for pulling away the treasured comfort blanket and showing the ugly beast hiding beneath.

      I do think that the coming period of Brexit revelations will be very difficult to hide from the low information Britnats and die hard Unionists. Pennies will be dropping loudly for a great many people.

      Britain is not so great and that truth will become extremely evident in the near future, along with the realisation that the MSM have been playing people for turkeys all this time.

    35. gus1940 says:

      Les Wilson.

      We also earlier this week had the shock news of the impending largest plague of midges in history – guaranteed to put off many potential tourists.

    36. Ian McCubbin says:

      I no longer read newspapers as they all lie about Scottish politics. I watch breakfast on bbc for a laugh but if reporting Scotland go too far switch off.
      Time we had a national broadcasting channel funded by criwd funding.

    37. Ken500 says:

      South Korea 51million pop 200+ Universities (45 public) .

    38. Auld Rock says:

      Gus you forgot to mention that last winter being mild and all these midges are all the fault of the SNP!!!!!

      Auld Rock

    39. Dr Jim says:

      Remember yesterday Jackie Bird told us anything good happening in Scotland is

      despite the SNP

    40. galamcennalath says:

      Scotland has virtually no mainstream media. Exceedingly little Scottish journalism from the dead tree purveyors.

      They report a make believe country quite distinct from the actual society Scots experience every day.

      Stories about NHS, trains, education, transgressions by politicians which never happened. Endless crap.

      Scotland is subjected to a diet of fake news and propaganda almost exclusively anti government/SNP/Indy padded out with fitba and murder.

      IMO the number of people seeing through it all is increasing. Once you realise you are being lied to, the trust is gone, and never again will you believe their propaganda. Conversion is a one way route.

    41. heedtracker says:

      Dr Jim says:
      9 August, 2017 at 1:51 pm
      Remember yesterday Jackie Bird told us anything good happening in Scotland is

      despite the SNP

      No Dr. Bird’s a far sneakier tory ligger than that. Bird says SNP bad, “critics say.”

      Far creepier, far more beeb Scotland gimp like or… just chapter one in the Dummies Guide to BBC Brain Washing, for tory gimps, red and blue.

    42. Ken500 says:

      How many mature students from a poorer background go to university? That % could put up the 13% figure.

    43. Geronimo says:

      Its the fault of the SNP that the sun is shining today….tomorrow who knows?????

    44. Albert Herring says:

      Of course the Tory aim is for 99% of students to come from a poverty stricken background.

    45. Legerwood says:

      Apparently the BBC is one of the most trusted news sources in America new research has found. Think we should put them straight on that one.

      Article about it in The Guardian

    46. Betty Boop says:

      I take it journalism and media courses include modules in cognitive dissonance or maybe just hypocrisy.

    47. Marcia says:

      These skewed reports will continue until the end of the next Scots Referendum that the Yoonies know is coming. Talking to friends relatives and neighbours about these stories does help. They then then start spotting the fabricated angst.

    48. Chitterinlicht says:

      ‘social engineering’ -is that like being in government and implementing your policies?

    49. stewartb says:

      Giving Goose @1.06pm states:

      “Something that I have noticed with a Britnat that I know very well, is the level of what I would describe as cultural shock on display ….”

      Your example, and its implications for the next independence campaign, is very significant in my view. It is at the root of the claim that Indyref1 was so ‘divisive’ – in truth, it proved very uncomfortable for many in Scotland, and especially for those who are (or ‘discovered’ themselves to be) British Nationalists. It is wholly rationale for those folk to wish to avoid another, similar ‘uncomfortable’ experience.

      I’m not a psychologist but from layman’s knowledge, it seems that in promoting Scottish independence we are inevitably stoking and are faced with responding to ‘cognitive dissonance’ (CD) writ large.

      CD refers to a situation which involves having conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviours e.g. one gains a growing awareness that after all, all may not be as ‘better together’ in this United Kingdom as claimed by opponents of Scottish independence. This produces a feeling of discomfort leading to pressure to alter one or more of one’s set of attitudes, beliefs or behaviours in order to reduce the discomfort and restore balance – arguably a big problem for ProudScotbuts!.

      Cognitive dissonance theory suggests that we all have an inner drive to hold all our attitudes and beliefs in harmony and avoid disharmony (or dissonance). As the experience of dissonance is unpleasant, we are motivated to reduce or eliminate it, and achieve consonance (i.e. agreement).

      Moreover, the principle of ‘cognitive consistency’ starts from the idea that we seek consistency in our beliefs and attitudes in any situation where two cognitions are inconsistent. A powerful motive to maintain cognitive consistency can give rise to irrational and sometimes ‘maladaptive’ behaviour (i.e. behaviours adopted in an attempt to lessen anxiety and fear, but which can actually worsen a condition because they prevent the individual from adopting a truly adaptive patterns of behaviour).

      The achievement of psychological consistency allows the person afflicted with cognitive dissonance to lessen their mental stress by actions that reduce the magnitude of the dissonance, by changing, or by justifying against, or by being indifferent to the existential contradiction that is inducing the mental stress. Some will (simply) ignore or deny information that conflicts with their existing beliefs: to do otherwise exacerbates the discomfort of their cognitive dissonance.

      Sources: ; ; .

    50. manandboy says:

      To help understand the British Government’s propaganda campaign against Scotland these past five years, remember that this is how the slave owners of the past behaved upon hearing of the abolition of slavery.
      Their wealthy lifestyle depended on slaves, just as the British Establishment depends on Scotland for its lifestyle.
      Scottish Independence spells the end of the English ruling class. For them Independence is a matter of life or death for their privileged society.

      As for education in Scotland, half the population can’t read the signs of the times nor the writing on the wall, not surprisingly because the BBC is their principal educator.
      Add in the Record, the Sun, the Star, the daily Mail the Express, the Metro and the Herald and Scotsman, and you have half of Scotland still in the Unionist school for the politically illiterate.

      Scotland, the only country on earth which could elect David Mundell and his idiot offspring Oliver, who is still trying to work out what the phrase ‘oh, you’re just like your father’ means in his case.

    51. Gary says:

      I watched the BBC Scotland take on the exam results. Their ultimate comment is that things were improving ‘despite Scottish government policy’
      Similarly, the new road building scheme was reported as ‘excessive delays for drivers’ some time back.
      And today, the increased tourism being experienced in Skye is reported as ‘inadequate infrastructure’
      They will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on every occasion, it’s getting really old now…

    52. Clapper57 says:

      “The dammed if you do dammed if you don’t” method is favoured by many of the SNPBAD brigade.

      Why Reporting Scotland last night mentioned, couldn’t help themselves, that the success in pass marks and higher university places achieved this year by Scottish pupils ……well some critics , they said, noted this was “despite the SNP policy”…..there always must be some caveat to diminish ANYTHING which could be perceived as a positive for the Scottish government i.e. SNP.

      The above hack’s articles, as highlighted by WOS , clearly expose what the hack’s REAL intention was in writing such contradicting headlines…..well it was indeed an SNPBAD agenda …..all the way.

      Fortunately with social media such blatant manipulation via an anti SNP pro unionist rag can be highlighted …..thanks to sites such as WOS…you know the one who should be boycotted …..because then many of us would be oblivious to all of these deliberate concerted attacks on the Scottish government….for no other reason than a purely political one.

      Some people say why does this matter . Well we know it matters because if we do NOT challenge and expose this then the perception of many will indeed be driven by what the media wants us to believe is factual and then we are truly in FAKE NEWS territory…..where the mainstream media can once again control and regulate their version of the news…..i.e. BritNat news.

      We have the likes of D Torrance telling us what he perceives is happening to the YES movement…..that’s someone AGAINST independence….and a Tory to boot….how credible he is….on this very subject….NOT….why his objectivity just shines through in every article he writes about regarding the SNP and Yes movement does it not….perhaps his own wishful thinking style of writing would be better suited to writing fantasy for dummies.

      Actually the above opposing articles in The Times do indeed show how pathetic and desperate the hacks are becoming …..when they have to contradict their OWN feckin pieces….LOL………why his lack of investigative ability, lack of professionalism and inept writing would be more suited to a parochial village news distributor than a supposedly serious national newspaper….even one owned by Murdoch.

      The fact these two articles were written in same year is even more laughable….I await with abated breath for a similar piece on upper class pupils…..with the same SNPBAD slant….there is stupid and then there is Daniel Sanderson….oh my giddy aunt…what a magnificent fanny he is.

      Hold the front page …..there is a succession of other fanny’s also awaiting to print their own similar shit …..same old same old.

    53. Spare a thought for the poor opposition in Holyrood (and let’s be honest here – it is pretty poor).

      The SNP are on a third term as the Scottish Government – through an election system specifically devised to prevent them from prevailing – ever.

      In all that time, the opposition have had to sit there carping and moaning about every single topic in an attempt to find a weakness in the SNP armour. In 99 cases out of 100, this is unsuccessful and actually requires the opposition to suppress measures and initiatives that benefit Scotland in general.

      The MSM are fed copious amounts of “press releases” to support these actions against the SNP – and of course, they are just more examples of SNP-baaaad.

      Then we come to the recent performance by the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party – with special emphasis on the Unionist bit. They have played a blinder in turning Scottish politics into a binary system – them and us, Unionist and Separatist, good and bad. Its the ultimate conclusion to the build-up before Brexit.

      We are now fighting the next referendum every single day. The battle for hearts and minds is hotting up.

      Just like in 2014, when the writing was on the wall for the Union during those last few weeks of campaigning, the full force of the MSM and the Establishment went into action. The process wasn’t nice – the myth of “its not the winning, but how you play the game” was firmly booted out of the park – but justified because the Union was fighting a devious separatist machine, hell-bent on destroying everything that was good, wholesome and fair.

      Nothing has changed. However, they appear to be running out of ideas. The SG keep getting results – and they are in areas where the results are having a positive effect. This is very difficult to counter with negativity, so the Unionists are getting rather frustrated.

      Frustration will lead to mistakes. If they over-play their hand on one major issue, they will start an avalanche that will rapidly sweep their lies and misinformation away. Its probably just a matter of time. I’m sure Brexit is a dread they won’t be keen to face.

    54. galamcennalath says:

      Chitterinlicht says:

      ‘social engineering’ -is that like being in government and implementing your policies?

      Aye, like making people healthier and living longer, or being better educated, or creating jobs and giving people living wages …. you know, all the stuff the Tories don’t agree with.

      Of course the Tories have their own brand of ‘social engineering’. Ultimately they want a society of poor uneducated people who will work for starvation wages and ask no questions – the Brexiteers dream.

    55. Morgatron says:

      I too have often found my trousers at the front covered in urine. I think the cause may be similiar as the SNP, we are simply just pissing into the wind. No matter how good the news is , its always bad and if its not bad they will twist it so. I fucking despise the mainstream media.

    56. Clapper57 says:

      @ John Armstrong says @ 2.40pm

      Well written and spot on John.

    57. @Clapper57 @2:58

      Thanks for the feedback 🙂

      I also forgot to mention – how infuriating for the Unionists to see that Ms. Sturgeon seems to be getting on with the day job after all, evidenced by positive reports on policing performance, A&E waiting times, the exam results, the completion of the (Scottish funded) Queensferry Crossing, baby boxes, school meals, etc, etc – and she still won’t take indy off the table – a double whammy against the main thrust of Unionist propaganda. 🙂

    58. jdman says:

      Dr Jim @ 1.51
      maybe we should start a meme

    59. Les Wilson says:

      gus1940 says:

      That is one I obviously missed, but nothing surprises me, (like you also it seems), about how low the BBC et al, can go when it comes to Scotland.

      They are fighting for their lives, high time we were taking the same approach. What the Rev is doing is invaluable, but we need a social media army, to get the message to the masses.

    60. The P&J are probably orgasmic over this wee nugget of information…

      The place of learning is Inverness College UHI and their overall pass rates were… maths (71%), English (80%), care (100%), physics (83%) and biology (80%) – all considered “outstanding”.

      However, one class failed to gain a single Higher pass – and they didn’t get any last year either. Clearly, there is a problem specific to this class or subject and it needs to be addressed. It shouldn’t be an excuse to rubbish the success of the College in general.

      Still, bloody SNP – too busy moaning about Westminster – they should concentrate on Scotland, blah, blah, blah.

    61. @Clapper57 @2:58

      Thanks for the feedback 🙂

      I also forgot to mention – how infuriating for the Unionists to see that Ms. Sturgeon seems to be getting on with the day job after all, evidenced by positive reports on policing performance, A&E waiting times, the exam results, the completion of the (Scottish funded) Queensferry Crossing, baby boxes, school meals, etc, etc – and she still won’t take indy off the table – a double whammy against the main thrust of Unionist propaganda. 🙂

    62. Andy-B says:

      Lies upon lies, it’s been that way, I’d imagine since 1707. How much longer will we allow it to go on?

    63. wull2 says:

      As said before in another comment we require a social media army to get out the true message to the masses in Scotland, or just direct them to this site.

    64. Desimond says:

      Journalism….the most romantically thought of off all the professions.

      When was the last time anyone thought that Journalism was worthy of respect.

      Don’t bother citing a few “this ones decent”, theres always somebody trying to do the right thing, I mean overall.

      Does anyone trust what the read in the media ( if you actually bother reading media print) ?

      Does anyone trust the news, national or international these days to give solid, honest factual reporting?

      Does anyone look forward to watching current affair shows without a sense of “lets see what stupid shit they try and shovel my way tonight!”

      It amazes me people still seem to feign surprise. Im 48 and I don’t think I can remember a time when news in any form was worthy of my respect.

    65. AndyH says:

      The BBC are the opposition in Scotland.

      I’m sure they are writing the script for the three yoon stooges at Holyrood.

    66. Clapper57 says:

      @ John Armstrong @ 3.43pm

      You are welcome …was deserved….and as to your subsequent post……..I am sure much Unionist fury will be unleashed because of this…..payback will be brutal I am sure…..I feel a concerted attack on the SNP….yes another….will be imminent.

      Have a good evening.

    67. Effijy says:

      Anyone else wonder if people applying for a course in Journalism
      Are asked if they are good liars and are willing to avoid the truth a all costs?

      UK journalism is no longer exists.
      If you wanted a real job in the industry,
      You would have to travel abroad.

      Paparazzi has been replaced with Unionist Papaganda!

    68. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Ha ha. Oh, that gave me a laugh, Stu. Thank you.

    69. colin alexander says:

      Re: UDI is the Answer 9/8/15:

      “as currently seems likely, that it’s another SNP majority”

      That might have seemed likely, but the SNP are a minority.

      The first example of UDI: USA 1776. European American colonists v the UK.

      What’s that got to do with 21st Century democracy?

      Rhodesia: European colonists running a racist minority state. What’s that got to do with Scotland?


      Northern Cyprus was an invasion by the Turkish army.


      The only reasonable comparisons are Ireland and Kosovo.

      In both of those UDI was declared following bloody civil wars and ethnic hatred.

      But they bear little comparison to the situation in Scotland, despite the best efforts of Labour and the Tories to ignite the Orange flame.

      Stu goes on to rubbish UDI because it followed the referendum. At the time, just a year after indyref, that assertion made sense.

      But Stu goes on to compare a declaration of UDI as akin to a coup d’ etat. That’s nonsense, if the UDI were in a manifesto and the electorate voted for it.

      Stu goes on to say:

      ““If UDI is in the manifesto and the SNP win, nothing else matters. That’s a democratic mandate.” But that argument carries no weight in international law.”

      Surprisingly for Stu, who nearly always quotes real examples as proof, in this case the law, he quotes no case law to support this. No legal rulings whatsoever.

      Why? Because it’s wrong. Ask Craig Murray if you don’t believe me. Craig Murray on UDI.

      The UK and many other countries gave their legal opinion on Kosovo’s declaration of UDI to the ICJ.

      Put simply, the UK and many other countries recognise a country’s right to become independent via a declaration of UDI.

      Stu supports the use of referendums as the most democratic way.

      If that were true how come there is so much dissatisfaction following the indyref and EU referendums? Because the referendum questions themselves bore little relevance to the campaigns.

      People are lied to, misled. Left unable to make proper judgements to answer the referendum questions.

      The theory that referendums are the most democratic way of deciding things, in practice doesn’t hold up to be true. They can be rigged with lies.

      UDI is a perfectly legitimate way of becoming independent. UDI based on a manifesto for independence voted for by the electorate would be democratic and a great example of democracy for the world.

      It would avoid the need for negotiations as subservient partners in the UK, even following a YES vote in a referendum, as a referendum does not make us independent. WM would still control everything.

      Following a declartion of UDI we would be negotiating as an independent country, not a colony of the UK.

      Whether people would vote for it is another matter altogether. They wouldn’t vote for semi-independent monetary union with the UK and political and economic union with the EU in 2014, so until public opinion changes there won’t be independence by any method.

      That’s the issue, not whether independence by UDI or referendum is legitimate.

    70. shug says:

      These people will have to be held accountable for their actions in misleading the country.

      They may find the account being called in sooner than they think when Westminster slip N Ireland over to the Republic.

      I feel sure scalps will be taken.

    71. Meg merrilees says:

      John Armstrong 3.37

      I noticed the article about the whole class failing the exam at the College in the Highlands.

      It seems that they were sitting a ‘Higher Media’ exam.

      If they are using Scottish media for their course work and syllabus then it’s little wonder that it seems to have been a complete failure. How could you style a course using Scottish Media or even wider british media as examples of good reporting/truthful news or even good use of language, spelling and grammar.

      I feel sorry for the students involved.

    72. galamcennalath says:

      OT As spotted on Twitter …

      Philip Hammond (Sky News, 2 February 2016) ”North Koreans seem to think possessing a nuclear weapon makes them safe. In fact it’s the opposite. Having a nuclear weapon makes them a target.”

      …. unless they are sited in Scotland, of course.

      Does the hypocrisy of these arrogant barstards know any bounds?

    73. velofello says:

      Lifted from today’s National – ” Admissions body UCAS said figures showed that more learners from Scotland had secured Uni places on exam results day than in any previous year, with a 13% increase in placed applicants from Scotland’s most deprived communities. Almost all successful applicants – 25,830 – are registered to attend Scottish Unis”.

      Was it 2012/13 I marched with a few others in the sleet to support Indy and to protest against the BBC? And then in Edinburgh heard Margo MacDonald “if each of us could persuade one other to Indy we’ll win. And watched Margo painfully walked to and from the platform. And then again protesting at Pacific Quay. And we were told that by protesting at Pacific Quay we weren’t helping the Indy campaign.

      If only we could fund an Indy TV station, Rev? Or even a Sunday paper. The Sunday Herald article on Annie Wells just about finishes me with that paper. One more issue’s content to decide.

    74. heedtracker says:

      If only we could fund an Indy TV station, Rev? Or even a Sunday paper. The Sunday Herald article on Annie Wells just about finishes me with that paper. One more issue’s content to decide.

      TV’s dying out now.

      It may seem strange to even hear that, but its slowly but surely ebbing away. Our screens are being filled with far more interesting stuff, that we do want to watch.

      Maybe that’s why UK tv media is all so boring to watch, with deadly boring radio. Watch gogglebox on C4, primetime tv, fat, half cut duh’s, slumped in front of giant tv’s, watched by fat half cut duh’s…

    75. Andy-B says:

      Well Reporting Scotlandshire never fails to disappoint, this time bovine TB, has been found in a dead badger in England. BBC Scotlanshire is hinting it might come to Scotland, and reek havoc on our farmers.

      Scaremongering as usual, they just hate Scotland so much, and it shows.

    76. Bill McLean says:

      Velofello – totally agree with you on the Annie Wells story. After many years with the Sunday Herald i’m giving it one more chance reluctantly – but not feeling hopeful for it!

    77. TheWasp says:

      Andy-B @ 18.52

      And Skye full and the infrastructure is shite. Sturgeon must act

    78. Alex Clark says:

      There are facts and there are Unionist headlines.

      The facts are that the Scottish Government, currently do any more than they are doing right now to improve Scottish society for all who live here.

      Fact 1 our NHS is the best performing in the UK by a large margin.

      Our MSM deny this.

      Fact 2 Education and exam results have improved and more of our youth go to University than ever before.

      Our MSM do not deny this, just that it’s “despite SNP policies”

      Fact 3 Crime is at a record low in Scotland.

      Our MSM deny this.

      Why does anybody bother even getting out of bed in the morning when all they have to look forward to is another shitty day in Scotland?

      One thing that keeps me getting out of bed is the belief that Scotland can become an Independent country and from that day on we need no longer listen to or read their lies and I like toast.

    79. Andy-B says:


      Aye that as well, you can almost see the smug look on Jackie Birds coupon.

      It truly is a sad state of affairs when youre watching the news on the BBC’s Reporting Scotlandshire to point out the scaremongering and lies.

    80. Andy-B says:


      Aye that as well, you can almost see the smug look on Jackie Birds coupon.

      It truly is a sad state of affairs when youre watching the news on the BBC’s Reporting Scotlandshire to point out the scaremongering.

    81. Dr Jim says:

      Apparently some people on The Isle of Sky think the Scottish government needs to get behind tourism now that Sky is so busy it needs some infrastructure changes so they can make even more cash than they presently do

      Maybe those people on the Isle of Sky who think that might not have noticed the SNP removed all bridge toll charges throughout Scotland allowing tourism to flourish and for business to take more of their own money home instead of paying excess for transport

      The good folk of Sky might not have noticed that tourism on Sky has Skyrocketed, pardon the pun, purely and simply through the efforts of the SNP Scottish government never shutting up about the place, which is their job of course to promote Scotland and all things Scottish

      Perhaps before those good people on Sky complain about the Scottish SNP government not doing enough they might nip down to their local council who are actually the ones responsible for the roads and condition thereof before they squeal blame at the SNP Scottish government who’ve bent over backwards to boost Sky at every opportunity

      But then again it was a BBC report on which I saw this, so in fact the complainants may be far fewer than represented by the BBC in which case I apologise to all residents of that Island, but If I saw the item on the news so did others, so if you feel misrepresented people of Sky please get in touch with your culture minister Fiona Hyslop and make your voices heard in both regards to infrastructure and misrepresentation by the Inglish Broadcasting Corporation

      Either way Ms Hyslop or your SNP MSP or MP will be more that pleased to engage with you but what not to do is complain to your Unionist representative who only exists to complain to the BBC and it starts all over again

    82. Dorothy Devine says:

      I found the direction of travel by STV on education most interesting – and they will be doing some more tomorrow – an indirect attack on the SNP more in sorrow than in anger , obviously.

    83. galamcennalath says:

      “… following today’s meeting we remain absolutely clear that, as things stand, we will not recommend to the Scottish Parliament that it gives its consent to the EU Withdrawal Bill. …. The current proposals are a direct threat to the devolution settlement which the people of Scotland overwhelmingly voted for in 1997.”

      A serious constitutional impasse seems to be developing. Fair enough, let’s get on with it!

    84. stu mac says:

      @Bill McLean says:
      9 August, 2017 at 6:57 pm
      Velofello – totally agree with you on the Annie Wells story.

      There have been a couple of posters on earlier blogs/articles (whatever they’re called here) have mentioned that the Sunday Herald changed editors a while back and since then it has become much less pro-Indy.

    85. Marker Post says:

      Alistair Darling reveals his most scary moment. “You’ve got to remember, the collapse of RBS happened only a couple of years after Gordon Brown had told everyone that the days of boom and bust were over. So yes, I was shocked”.

    86. velofello says:

      @ heedtracker: arguably there is a vacuum that needs to be filled concerning the media, MSM and TV. Me? Well my music playing has improved considerably since I stopped viewing TV, and i don’t listen to the radio, I buy the National and enjoy the articles. George Kerevan’s contribution this week a gem. the Sunday Herald is on “one last chance”, it has increasingly become a “flick through” for me and I just increasingly home in to the back page magazine crosswords.

      Reading thro’ the Too Wee articles on Wings, and reflecting on the calls for crowdfunding from several entities I’ve come round to thinking a weakness of the Indy movement is funding. Our tax base here is less than many countries and here in Scotland we enjoy bus passes, non-fee Uni education, free prescriptions etc, maybe an IndyFighting Fund is a way? The Tories have plenty of funds, and it seems “dark money”, yet we outnumber them and maybe a coordinated Indy fighting fund is a consideration. And remember the rich love money so losing money via challenges will not please them. i’m particularly annoyed by their financial bullying by them of Andy Wightman.

    87. heedtracker says:

      Either way Ms Hyslop or your SNP MSP or MP will be more that pleased to engage with you but what not to do is complain to your Unionist representative who only exists to complain to the BBC and it starts all over again”

      West coast of Scotland could be now one of the world’s biggest green energy producers, easily.

      And yet its all been either shut down, or delayed for decades by psycho tories and their gimp BBC led media do their propaganda work for them.

      Its like the tory psycho’s declaring that the UK will have no petrol and diesel cars by 2040. All of it’s clearly just another giant psycho tory fraud, certainly unquestioned by their gimps of the beeb led tory media.

      Reality in tory owned Green UK?

      FT, 18 months ago.

      Solar subsidies are being cut by 65 per cent in February, which will mean the loss of 9,700 to 18,700 jobs in the industry by 2018-19, according to the energy department’s own “impact assessment” of the change.

      All tory, Cameron and Osborne, two staggering tory kleptomaniacs. It is without a doubt that the big oil corps all “lobbied” the tory creeps to do this, cut subsidies to green energy and we all know how hard a very few tories have gone UKOK mental at SNP Scots gov got wind energy.

      Mind how Cameron went up the North Pole and went dog sledding, to show his tory vote how Green a tory he was. Hinkley B nuke power will cost more than all the renewable energy investment ever spent all together, in this farce union.

      It’s going to take at least fifteen years to build, its incredibly toxic for hundreds of thousands of years and even the biggest UK offshore wind farm which took less than two years to build, wont produce any toxic waste, ever.

    88. wull2 says:

      Don’t give up if you are the odd one out in your group, you are in the best place to plant the seed of truth and spread the word to all your friends.

    89. pacman says:

      I wonder how many of these working class orange order types who share the same constitutional views as these newsrags, think of this ‘SNP social engineering’ that these rags talk about when they realise their sons and daughters may have be capable of attending university after they leave school?

      They do really need to wise up as those ‘up on top of the hill’ who give them the patter of No surrender and Rule Britannia are not on their side.

    90. Muscleguy says:

      Since as I pointed out earlier on the other thread, the quota of funded Scottish students are Scottish universities has not increased one iota this year (see Barnett funding) IF the proportion of poor students increases then it MUST be at the expense of another group.

      I’m sure some of the displaced Middle Class kids will have parents happy to pay the £9k fees at an English institution, or they could get free to very low cost tuition in English at an increasing number of European universities.

      Employers like people who have international experience. You know it makes sense Middle Class youngster. Brussels and Bruges beckon.

    91. velofello says:

      @ heedtracker: “TVs dying out now”. Well since I stopped being a BBC client my music playing has improved, I tbelieve. I haven’t my neighbours, no merit in leading with your chin.

    92. Meg merrilees says:

      Dr Jim

      Perchance it could be that there are a lot of people from South Britain living in Skye who are frustrated that there are no Motorways on or to Skye and they’re paying so much money to the government in rates and taxes and they just can’t believe that there are no Motorways after all there are loads of them in South Britian and lots of cross trains running on Crossrail.

      It’s just so unfair that they haven’t got any decent infrastructure there ( mind you I’d probably be annoyed if I lived there too.)

    93. Meg merrilees says:


      I was researching the life of Sir Hugh Paterson, 3rd Baronet,(1685-1777) the 2nd MP for Stirling after the 1707 Union when I came across this:

      Having participated in the united Scottish opposition to the malt tax and the abortive campaign, during late May 1713, to dissolve the Union, Paterson abstained on 4 June on the French commerce bill, but was apparently following Jacobite instructions when he reverted to the Court for a subsequent vote upon the bill on 18 June.

      So, even then, the Scottish MP’s were trying to abort the 6 year old Union.

    94. Bob p says:

      The ebc are Scotlands enemy.

    95. Lors says:

      He accuses SNP of ‘social engineering ‘ in campuses, in the body of the piece. You’re right, they canni win.

    96. Chick McGregor says:

      A great poet once said

      “The order is rapidly fadin’

      And the first one now will later be last

      For the times they are a-changin'”

      Or, paraphrasing Orwell:

      ‘Two legs, SNP BAD.
      Buit, on the other hand,
      Four legs SNP BAD.’

    97. K1 says:

      So little of our history has been taught in our schools Meg, the very fact that we are this close in this era is down to advanced technology…I wonder which nation pioneered reducing the distance and time between folks allowing them/us to communicate in real time as we all do now?

      Hmmm…tel..telep..telephone. Even Bell was up against it against in his time with those who would challenge his patent for years and year repeatedly and to this day they still try to tell us it wasn’t Alexander Graham Bell who made sound travel through electricity.

      I’m not surprised to learn that we have been fighting for our nation’s return to independence since ever it was sold…we will retrieve our rightful status in this world, because there are more than ten thousand, more than one hundred thousand, more than a million of us right now whose sole intent it is to achieve our independence.

      We shall succeed, let’s just keep communicating with one another. The voices of our ancestors are travelling through time…we can hear them now, loud and clear…it’s working.

    98. velofello says:

      Eh, partially repeating myself, Damned Tory gremlins.

    99. Song42 says:

      K1. 10.21pm
      ‘The voices of our ancestors are travelling through time…we can hear them now, loud and clear…it’s working.’

      Indeed…Aye, loud n clear!

    100. Cactus says:

      100 / 101.

      I second (or third) the above comment.

    101. scottieDog says:

      @Marker Post
      Alistait darlings scariest moment was when he
      Realised he hadn’t a clue how the economy worked

    102. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Chick McGregor on 9 August, 2017 at 10:00 pm.

      You typed,

      “A great poet once said
      “The order is rapidly fadin’
      And the first one now will later be last
      For the times they are a-changin’””

      I’m late to this particular party because I’ve been catching up on all the comments, due to being on holiday without web access.

      For you…

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