The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Don’t sell the bike shop, Orville

Posted on January 20, 2013 by

Bless ’em, they’re getting closer. After some nagging, the Herald has now finally changed the story about jobs at Faslane that it printed a correction for earlier this week. And credit to them, the new version is a good 5% less wrong than the original.

Rather more distressingly, though, the newly-edited story still doesn’t match up even to the Herald’s own correction, never mind any kind of reality.

To be fair to the paper, it’s genuinely not that easy to ascertain what Labour’s notoriously factually-challenged Jackie Baillie actually claims about jobs supported by the submarine base. We trawled through story after story after story in which the health spokeswoman trotted out her “11,000” figure without ever specifying whether she was including actual jobs at the installation itself, or whether that was the number of support workers and local people whose jobs depended indirectly on it.

Eventually, though, we managed to nail it down, thanks to a Daily Record piece which quoted Baillie slipping up and actually putting some specifics on her claim:

“There are 11,000 people employed as a result of HMNB Clyde at Faslane – 6500 directly by the MoD and the other 4500 as a result of supply chain and local economic spending.”

So that’s that sorted out. And it also helpfully tallies with the Herald’s correction on Friday, which said “According to Labour MSP Jackie Baillie, 11,000 jobs would be at risk, directly and indirectly, under independence” (our emphasis).

So quite why the paper reversed its position again in the online version amended on Saturday afternoon – well, your guess is as good as ours. (Our emphasis again.)

“Some 6700 military and civilian jobs are at Faslane, and a further 1500 posts are due to be created by 2022. Labour calculate a further 11,000 people are also directly and indirectly reliant on the base for their livelihoods.”

It’s not just a careless slip of the keyboard. The brand-new headline of the piece is “Labour claims 19,000 Scottish jobs depend on Faslane”, a figure which depends on the 11,000 being additional to those employed at the base (and those who will theoretically be employed at it in the future) – something we’ve just established Labour isn’t claiming. The Herald has somehow managed to rewrite the piece without actually changing the falsehood it apologised for.

Of course, in the paper’s defence it’s hard to keep track of the torrent of random and wildly contradictory numbers that Scottish Labour pulls out of its backside about Faslane jobs on a near-daily basis. But the Herald has even less excuse for airing the party’s old tripe than it would initially appear.

While Googling to try to get to the bottom of Baillie’s scattergun statmongering, we stumbled across a fascinating piece in Channel 4’s “Fact Check” blog, dating all the way back to April 2007. Sure enough, there was Baillie still honking on about “11,000 jobs”, with her customary vagueness about where they’d come from. The channel’s researchers got to work on the claim, and awarded it a “Fact Check rating” of 4. We’ll let them explain to you what that means (our emphasis once more):

“Every time a FactCheck article is published we’ll give it a rating from zero to five. The lower end of the scale indicates that the claim in question largely checks out, while the upper end of the scale suggests misrepresentation, exaggeration, a massaging of statistics and/or language.

In the unlikely event that we award a 5 out of 5, our factcheckers have concluded that the claim under examination has absolutely no basis in fact.”

In other words, Baillie’s claims were just about as untruthful as they could possibly be, just a single degree below “completely and utterly fabricated out of thin air”.

That was almost six years ago. It’s amazing enough that Baillie is still pushing the same lie. Yet the Herald has not only repeated the lie in 2013, but exaggerated it by an additional 72% on Labour’s behalf without even being asked to – and despite having published just 24 hours earlier that that very same exaggeration was rubbish.

That’s apparently what passes for quality journalism in Scotland these days, even after two attempts. Pull your damn socks up, boys.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

18 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Peter Mirtitsch

TBH I am still left in wonderment as to why anyone actually believes anything Jackie Baillie says anyway. She lies even more than I did since I walked backwards round the world playing the bagpipes with my left nostril and pleasuring Angelina Jolie with the right…

BigCheese

That is really disappointing. I have felt that The Herald was trying to be a bit more even handed in the last few weeks. I hoped they were taking their position of responsibility in our country a bit more seriously. Maybe moving from totally biased and corrupt to fair minded takes more than a few weeks.

Seasick Dave

Its a fantastic byproduct of the Cold War that we can maintain one of the most hideous pieces of weaponry ever devised and use it to justify a socialist, anti nuclear party’s attack on a democratically elected Government using completely fabricated job figures.

Now, if only we had proper journalists… 

Vincent McDee

So? What were you expecting from Magnus? He’s great = Par for the labour course. 

Blindmanonhorse

Seasick Dave says:
20 January, 2013 at 10:32 am

Its a fantastic byproduct of the Cold War that we can maintain one of the most hideous pieces of weaponry ever devised and use it to justify a socialist, anti nuclear party’s attack on a democratically elected Government using completely fabricated job figures.
Now, if only we had proper journalists… 

  

BigCheese

I have just noticed that A Sair Fecht has returned. He has a superb comment on Davidson’s comments about celebrating Bannockburn.

redcliffe62

The Herald has unfortunately become rather sad. I told their customer service department that recently, when I unsubscribed after some other terrible drivel.

HenBroon

The Herald has gone all Chinese they are looking to move from their present position of Labours Press Release Tool, to a more honest platform in the real world of Scotland, but they need to save face in doing so, maybe we have to give them the space to make this journey and not gloat when they finally arrive in Damascus. They are after all circulating in an area of Scotland that the Yes camp needs to crack. We could do with at least one news paper batting for the truth!
On another subject I have seen audio clips extracted and posted on blogs, but lack the necessary skills to do so, can any one extract and post the excellent comments by Professor David Scheffer on GMS. He starts around 1hr 35minutes in. It really is a good summary of Scotlands position in the independence journey. There is only a few days left for it on the iPlayer.
link to bbc.co.uk

Bill C

Just read Kevin McKenna’s piece in the Guardian. I think it is a very significant staw in a strengthening wind of self determination starting to blow throughout Scotland.

Oldnat

More evidence that SLab STILL don’t understand why they lost so badly in 2011.

link to heraldscotland.com

Their much vaunted organisational reforms have been ditched by the very bunch of “just rubbish” MSPs, that the plan wanted to dump. 

pmcrek

About 9 months ago I stopped buying the Gaurdian and visiting the website, this decision was not arrived at lightly but I realised I had had my fill of reading a left wing paper that seemingly only actually supported progressive policy and democracy as long as it wasnt in Scotland. One article, which implied Donald Dewar died of a “Scottish diet” and not the tragic accident which claimed his life, became the final straw for me.

However, after it being recommended, I’ve just this minute read Mr McKenna’s piece on the Gaurdian it was good to read an honest article on Scotland for once and to read the comments of the same familiar names BTL once more.

While the rampant cynic that sits inside my head is currently crying caution I cant help but feel optimistic today after reading this article and others recently like it, that perhaps we have turned a corner in the debate?

All I need now is Scottish Skier predicting a 90% yes vote and I might even begin whistling.

Dave McEwan Hill

The Herald made a similar grudging and incomplete correction a few weeks ago to a simiar load of headline front page tripe about wind farms in Scotland. It was so bizarre that it got a mention in “Private Eye”.
Has anybody got the links to the headline story and  the correction?

The (Glasgow)Herald had a long history as a national insitutution and icon. It is now reduced to a regional (ie local)rag printing rubbish which the Daily Record would balk at. The Daily Record inf act is giving us a fair crack of the whip now and should be  further encouraged (if not least in its own future interest). to continue on this path.

A strange contrast can be found a the Sunday Herald. It is the only serious Scottish paper publishing genuine, intelligent  and honest political discourse.

We should all buy it every Sunday if only to wonder how long it will take for Mcwhirter to plant his flag in the place his logic invariably carries him to 

Seasick Dave

Dave:

We should all buy it every Sunday if only to wonder how long it will take for Mcwhirter to plant his flag in the place his logic invariably carries him to.

I’m going to give them a wee while yet before I start to buy the paper again.

Ian McWhirter reminds me of Velma Dinkley, the girl in Scooby Doo, when her glasses fall off. She’s clever, right on the scene, but just can’t see what’s right under her nose.

Angus McLellan

If you accept the 11,000 figure – yes, I know, but let’s go with that – then the 19,000 figure can be made to make sense.
There was an MoD claim that 8,200 jobs would be added at Faslane – see link to twitter.com – subsequently corrected back to the usual claim that jobs would be increased to 8.200 (from 6,700).
So, 11,000 + 8,200 ~= 19,000, QED. That should have been something over 12,500 – 11,000 + (1,500 more jobs + some extra induced employment) – but any big fat liar, or slipshod journalist, who needed to could hide behind the MoD’s mistake.

BillyBigBaws

This all gets even more depressing when you realise that the Herald has known the truth since October last year: that only 520 civillian jobs are reliant on Trident, and only 413 of them are known to be sited in Scotland.

link to heraldscotland.com

“Figures released by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) under freedom of information law reveal that only 520 civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport near Helensburgh are directly dependent on Trident. This contrasts with the 6000-11,000 jobs that pro-Trident politicians claim are at risk.

Predicted job losses are central to the arguments about Scottish independence, which could see Scotland refuse to allow nuclear warheads on its soil. Now the MoD has disclosed the number of staff who actually work on Trident. “There are 520 civilian jobs at HM Naval Base Clyde, including Coulport and Faslane, that directly rely upon the Trident programme,” it said.

Of them, 159 are employed by the MoD and 361 by the MoD’s contractors, Babcock Marine and Lockheed Martin. Most of the workers – 310 – live in West Dumbartonshire or Argyll and Bute, with the rest living elsewhere in Scotland (103) or at unknown locations (107).

Labour MSP for Dumbarton, Jackie Baillie, said: “To remove nuclear weapons from HM Naval Base Clyde would wipe out the 11,000 jobs that are dependent on the base.””


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,671 Posts, 1,202,956 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • James on Telling the truth by mistake: ““Mental disease has many forms.” Indeed. You have my sympathies.Nov 23, 01:15
    • Platinum on Telling the truth by mistake: “Post-GRA definition of woman: adult human female who doesn’t have a GRC – yet.Nov 23, 01:09
    • Robert Matthews on Telling the truth by mistake: “James can be both a dick and a fanny, just read his posts.Nov 23, 00:50
    • James on Telling the truth by mistake: “Course not – Tory clansman.Nov 23, 00:42
    • Cynicus on Telling the truth by mistake: ““clapping seals . . .of both sexes . . . who appear to think this ideology is about being kind. “…Nov 23, 00:27
    • Michael Laing on Telling the truth by mistake: “Bellend is a yoon troll.Nov 22, 23:49
    • Robert Matthews on Telling the truth by mistake: “Virtue signalled.Nov 22, 23:19
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Telling the truth by mistake: “Of course, some people don’t think men have souls either…Nov 22, 22:29
    • Ruairidh on Telling the truth by mistake: “The utter lack of respect for ordinary Scots is clear from the way they continually lie to us with no…Nov 22, 22:16
    • Dumbarton Rock on Telling the truth by mistake: “…….. News of an Indy summit coming up! Look out for it…….Nov 22, 21:31
    • twathater on Telling the truth by mistake: “TestingNov 22, 20:46
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Sorry, I forgot to mention all the clapping seals . . .of both sexes . . . who appear to…Nov 22, 20:41
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Only some delusional men ARE playing this game, the rest of us, men, women and children have the pitch queered…Nov 22, 20:34
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “I’ll keep asking you this very simple question until you reply in DIRECT response to the question, with a YES…Nov 22, 20:25
    • Willie Fleming on Telling the truth by mistake: “testNov 22, 20:24
    • sarah on Telling the truth by mistake: “Donation done. Thanks for the nudge.Nov 22, 20:22
    • BLMac on Telling the truth by mistake: “Truly the king has no clothesNov 22, 20:21
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Do you support Scotland becoming a country again? Binary response suffices, canny understand why a simple yes or no should…Nov 22, 20:20
    • Tartanpigsy on Telling the truth by mistake: “Alba, ISP and whatever Peter Bell calls his party are between them going nowhere unless they unite under a pro…Nov 22, 20:15
    • meg merrilees on Telling the truth by mistake: “But does this mean that if you are a woman who has transitioned to a man and holds a GRC…Nov 22, 20:00
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Answer my question, please?Nov 22, 19:56
    • Robert Matthews on The Long Unravelling: “The most recent poll shows No 52 – yes 48.Nov 22, 19:49
    • Skip_NC on Telling the truth by mistake: “Alba stood in one ward and got 4.2% of the vote. We’re not quite where we need to be but…Nov 22, 19:46
    • Campbell Clansman on Telling the truth by mistake: “Do you think Alba–which was stuck at 1% while Alex Salmond was still alive–will ever amount to anything, especially since…Nov 22, 19:36
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Indeed. The GRA needs repealed. The Equality act 2010 can always be tweaked afterwards, IF necessary.Nov 22, 19:19
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “NOT fine by me. But, on many other issues we may agree.Such is life.Nov 22, 19:09
    • Willie Fleming on The Long Unravelling: “They got a wee lesson in Dnepopetrovsk yesterday. And these were purely kinetic weapons, no warheads. A magnificent strike, took…Nov 22, 19:07
    • Chas on Telling the truth by mistake: “I must be old fashioned. I always thought if you had a dick, you were a man. If you had…Nov 22, 19:00
    • Robert Hughes on The Long Unravelling: “Spot-on , my friend . What sickens/concerns me is the scale , the extent and seemingly limitless power to construct…Nov 22, 19:00
    • Nae Need! on Telling the truth by mistake: “Do you support Scotland becoming a country again?Nov 22, 18:50
  • A tall tale



↑ Top
102
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x