stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Deserving of pity

Posted on August 05, 2013 by

A reader recently sent us an article from Humanitie, the magazine of the Humanist Society of Scotland, in which (apparently after much delay in finding anyone willing to put the No camp’s case) a “Better Together” activist made the case for the Union, in response to a Yes piece in the preceding issue. You can read it by clicking the image.

humanisthothersall1

We’ve carefully redacted the person’s identity, because we don’t want to make this personal. But reading through the litany of tired old falsehoods, we were overcome not with anger or even contempt, but with sorrow.

Because the activist’s entire argument was based on the premise that a UK-wide Labour Party would fight “global capitalism”, and therefore Scotland should stay to help. (Let’s leave aside for the moment the fact that both Scotland and England are perfectly capable of electing Labour governments individually if they want them.)

We’re all for battling the excesses and perversions of global capitalism, but if someone hasn’t noticed by now that the modern Labour Party has about as much interest in doing that as we have in under-12s county cricket, it’s probably safe to say that they’re never going to.

So imagine being this unfortunate person. Imagine someone who you know with absolute certainty is going to spend their entire life, from cradle to grave, in frustration and disappointment, waiting for Labour to do something it didn’t do when it was in power with huge majorities for THIRTEEN YEARS, and never will.

The only victory they have even a slight hope of achieving in their entire life is in the independence referendum. But even then, imagine being that person in May 2015, waking up knowing that they’ve condemned their adopted homeland and its five million souls to (at least) another half-decade of needless Tory rule, and feeling that triumph turn to ashes in their mouth.

From that day forward, only misery awaits. Because there’s only one direction UK Labour is moving in now, and the forces driving it in that direction are a million times stronger than any tiny handful of idealism-blinded delusional fantasists could ever shift. Its only hope of rediscovering its original purpose is to be revived first in an independent Scotland, where its traditions are still strong but are constantly trampled in the service of Middle English votes.

Imagine spending your life in the service of a goal you’re never going to see even if you win, in a party that has adopted Tory policy on every single ideological item of substance, quibbling only over the method of execution. Imagine having to work ever harder to convince yourself your life isn’t an exercise in futility, the sunk cost in wasted years weighing ever heavier and making it even more difficult.

If we lose the referendum, we’ll be glum for a while and then redouble our efforts, because we only have to win once. Labour won in 1997, 2001 and 2005 yet still left a country more divided, more repressed, less compassionate and more broken than the one it found. If we win, the job’s done.

A land of milk and honey won’t magically appear overnight, but then we’re not pretending it will. Our core objective is simply to take responsibility for our own lives. After that, our fate is in our own hands. And if our fate is in our own hands we can never truly lose, because we’ll have hope.

Whatever happens next September, we’d rather that than a lifetime of endless defeat, of shattered dreams and impotent rage and regret. We’re done with sitting around uselessly praying for the south-east of England to decide it wants to change. Scotland doesn’t have the luxury of hanging around for 40 years while Labour gets its finger out and becomes the party it was created to be again. It’s time to better ourselves.

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    80 to “Deserving of pity”

    1. DaveB says:

      “Our core objective is simply to take responsibility for our own lives. After that, our fate is in our own hands. And if our fate is in our own hands we can never truly lose, because we’ll have hope.”
      I like those lines. Well said.

    2. tartanfever says:

      Very optimistic Rev saying that we’ll have the chance for another referendum if we vote no this time.
      I would presume the next Tory government will do all in it’s power to wrestle  control away from Holyrood.
      That article is sheer delusion, unlike you I have no sorrow for it, just utter contempt. 

    3. DaveB says:

      Just noticed who it is that they interviewed. lol

    4. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Very optimistic Rev saying that we’ll have the chance for another referendum if we vote no this time.”

      Well, yeah, I share the fear that steps will be taken to reduce Holyrood’s ability. But the truth is that you can’t hold back the tide – if the public wills it it’ll happen. All the same, best just to win it this time and save the trouble.

    5. Paul Martin says:

      D***** will be spouting this same pish till he’s 90.
      Whoever D***** is of course.

    6. Richard Lucas says:

      Your ‘careful redaction’ made me laugh. ‘D’ has been busily drawing attention to this article in twitterland, so it wasn’t really necessary  It seems that his humanist interviewer had a bit of difficulty following ‘D’s’ tortured logic, just as I so often have. ‘D’ is a true cultist, unswayable by facts that do not support his world view.  I’ve come to the conclusion that he isn’t actually very bright.

    7. Firestarter says:

      “Let’s leave aside for the moment the fact that both Scotland and England are perfectly capable of electing Labour governments individually if they want them”

      This is exactly what I was thinking earlier today. Independence would not stop Labour on both sides of the border working together. Many international organisations do just that, in pursuit of a common aim. In fact, it could quite easily be said that Labour in an independent Scotland could do MORE to work towards those aims, by affecting policy here and demonstrating its efficacy. And, by association, providing an example for Labour in England to follow, if it so chose. Baffling.
       
      PS: Even if you had redacted the D as well …… we would still have known who it was. There’s not that many to choose from on the BT side 😉

    8. Morag says:

      We may not get another referendum like this, but we don’t need one.  We get one every five years if we want.  Just agree with the unionist parties and tell the voters that a vote for the SNP at a general election is a vote for independence.  If the SNP gets >50%, job done.
       
      Of course it will be harder because it will be in effect a UDI, so as Stu says, let’s just do it now, the easy way.  But don’t fall for the tale that we won’t get another chance.

    9. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I just looked at the double page spread as it loaded and the first thing I saw was the angle of view and the reduction of Scotland in dimensions relative to England.
       
      Pure BBC subliminal propaganda.?

    10. Tom Hogg says:

      I HAVE LITERALLY NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

    11. Iain More says:

      I dont know how anybody could vote No in 2014 and look at themselves in the mirror again or indeed sleep at nights without heavy doses of medication. Even now I get No voters or those intending to vote No that are utterly unable to look me in the eye, I think that says more than a thousand words.
      How can anybody that has no pride, no self respect and clearly no dignity or even the ability to think for themselves pass themselves off as a Humanist?
      The above article does nothing but damage to the Humanist Society of Scotland. I guess even they cant find a single honest or positive reason to retain the Union and subject us to another tirade of the same old Better Together crap!

    12. DMyers says:

      He’s a very confused individual, isn’t he?  Or she.

    13. Doug says:

      I would summarise the argument thus:
       
      Anonymous author: “We have massive problems that we need to fix – the existing UK system will allow us to fix it together” 
       
      Response: “The system we are in has manifestly no intention of fixing the problems you perceive (and indeed does not believe them to be problems).  There is an alternative that would allow those problems to be fixed in Scotland”
       
      “La la la… I’m not listening”
       
      Close enough?

    14. Paul Martin says:

      Between now and Donut’s heralded vision of Jerusalem, we will have to thole not only Cameron , but also a Prime Minister May or a Prime Minister Boris Johnson…and god only knows what other horrors… a Prime Minister Jim Murphy or a Prime Minister Douglas Alexander. But Donut will still spout these exact same lines regardless at each and every turn.

    15. Iain More says:

      According to that Humanist eejit I have a say in the UK. That is what they call a positive argument for the Union. On what planet do they reside? I have never had a say in who governs the UK, it is a patent bare faced lie to suggest that I have any say or that anybody in Scotland that doesn’t vote for a right wing Tory Party has a say. Heck UKIP which has zero MPs at Westmidden has more say on Govt policy that I ever had.

    16. Robert Louis says:

      Morag,
       
      Have to agree with you.  If the result is NO next year, we just start again.  This will NEVER go away.  Unionists need to suck it up.
       
      As regards the article above, the author clearly has skills which many others do not.  he talks of being present at an anti trident rally, and appears to disagree with the notion of getting rid of it.  He talks of receiving flyers saying ‘vote YES to get rid of trident’, but he then says ‘but I was there to disarm trident, not to move it’ 
       
      Now, I know many people are multi skilled, but this guy can apparently disarm trident nuclear warheads.  Are the MOD aware of his hidden skills??
       
      Seriously, what strange twisted kind of rationale is that????  Almost every argument put forward in the piece is just completely off the wall.  Do not even his friends tell him he is talking patent nonsense???
       
      Honestly, his reasoning on almost everything is just very, very twisted.  The logic employed is weird.  

    17. Paul Martin says:

      Quite the slipperiest most congnitively-dissonant self-deluded pinheid dancer in the entire BetterTogether/SLAB firmanent. Like trying to catch an eel in an ocean of cooking oil.

    18. les wilson says:

      I hope there are many others like me, as I absolutely fed up of listening to all the crap thrown at us without redress. ( exeption Stu !) We need to be offensive than constantly defensive. The MSM will not do it, so over to you “cybernats ” give them what for, at every turn. 

    19. Melissa Murray says:

      I used to think D*** was just so tribalist in his support of Labour that he would follow them off a cliff, if they said so. But after reading this interview, I’m convinced he’s not all that bright. Of course those are the best type of followers, the blind obedient slightly dense person.  
       
      Oh well. Let’s move on to a more intelligent LAB supporter. 

    20. NorthBrit says:

      Well I’ve just visited this and it makes Dunc sound like the epitome of carefully thought through logic:
      http://mairnorarochwind.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/on-labour-for-independence/
      http://mairnorarochwind.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/the-king-the-court-and-the-castle/
      It’s like being harangued by a keelie Lenin.  Maybe it would be better all round if Blair McDougall does successfully purge LFI.

    21. Triangular Ears says:

      LOL, the author’s name isn’t redacted in the filename of the image, or DO I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT?

    22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “LOL, the author’s name isn’t redacted in the filename of the image, or DO I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT?”

      I’m guessing you haven’t looked at the caption either.

    23. NorthBrit says:

      @Triangular Ears
      I assumed that the “pretty sure we blanked out all the instances of Duncan’s name” plus “humanisthothersall1.jpg” filename meant that this was ironic redacting for comic effect.

      And it looks like I’m right!

    24. Currywurst says:

      “If we lose the referendum, we’ll be glum for a while and then redouble our efforts, because we only have to win once.”
       
      When exactly is the referendum on Bath’s secession from Somerset?

    25. Triangular Ears says:

      Captions don’t work on PlayBook… 🙂 

    26. Tris says:

      Can’t help feeling that if we vote no, the, UK government will take steps to ensure that we can’t have another referendum for a very long time.
       
      I’m not sure how they will do it, but they could use the excuse that the majority of Scots don’t want the uncertainty of this every 5 years. The country has said NO and NO it must be.
       
      They must realise that unless Labour does something incredibly changing, there is little chance that they will be elected to govern Scotland regardless of the outcome of the referendum. Most people, even staunch Labour supporters, find the idea of Lamont as FM either laughable or frightening. She’s simply not up to the job. She could be replaced, but then, which of their front benchers is a potential first minister?
       
      Given that, then, the assumption must be that the SNP will win the 2016 election in Scotland, probably with a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on independence. The question, I suppose is will it be a minority government or an outright majority. Or possibly, with the decline of Labour and the disappearance of the Liberals, is it possible that it could be a coalition of Greens and Scottish Socialists with the SNP and Independence-minded Independents?
       
      The UK government could refuse us the right to have the referendum, in which case, if we went ahead with it, it would subject to reviews in the courts, English courts, for years.
       
      There have already been mutterings about having a second chamber, because a single chamber with a majority is tantamount to an elected dictatorship. Minority or coalition government imposes its own brakes on governments. (One wonders how they can square that with the unelected, undemocratic situation at Westminster, but they don’t require logic to do what they do. They are the government and there is no written constitution so that can make the rules up as they go along.)
       
      It has been suggested that the House of Lords should act as a break on the Scottish government’s “dictatorial powers”. Whether they would insist that our laws have to pass through the HoL as the English laws do, or whether they would have a Scottish Lords committee…who knows?
       
      They could simply remove powers from Scotland because the Scotland Act allows them the final say on legislation.
       
      Or, as a very last resort they could do what Auld Tam wants, and do away with Edinburgh altogether. After all they applied direct rule in Ulster, why not in Scotland, if we are planning what they see as insurrection.
       
       We simply must not waste this chance.

    27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Well I’ve just visited this and it makes Dunc sound like the epitome of carefully thought through logic:
      http://mairnorarochwind.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/on-labour-for-independence/

      Dear God above.

    28. Triangular Ears says:

      I see it now on the computer. 😀
      While we’re on the subject, on the Playbook, the page always jumps down to the comment field and the keyboard pops up even without selecting that field.  You have to tap in the URL then away to get the keyboard away then carefully try and scroll back up to the top (pressing the up arrow just makes it jump to the top then the comment field again).  Periodically it will just jump straight down to the comment box again.  It’s very frustrating, but I’m sure you have no idea what I’m talking about.

    29. G H Graham says:

      The author is Duncan D’Isorderly, right?

    30. It speaks volumes for Better Together’s so-called “grassroots” campaign that they take ages to come up with an activist to be interviewed and the best they could do is someone whose intellect utterly fails until he finds the appropriate NEC policy paper to tell him what to think.

    31. Paul Martin says:

      “…we own the success of London as much as anywhere else in the UK does, and I don’t want to throw that away” 

      WTF !
      Donut’s neural synapses are wired in reverse, everthing he comes out with is the product of illogical thought.  Pure gibberish !

    32. rabb says:

      Aye very good Duncy boy!
      Let’s stick together and persude the evil tories to change their way eh? Buoyed with all the success you’ve had in changing Labour policy of course 🙂
       
      Do yourself a favour, stop fucking about, get real, pull yourself “together” and get on with independence with the rest of us.
       
      Unless of course you’re full of shite and have no intention of seeing anything you purport to support bearing fruit!

    33. Jiggsbro says:

      He’s a very confused individual, isn’t he?  Or she.
       
      Homophobe. 😉

    34. Morag says:

      Dear God above.
       
      You mean you actually managed to read it?

    35. IainGraysSubwayLament says:

      “the activist’s entire argument was based on the premise that a UK-wide Labour Party would fight “global capitalism”,”
       
      Sounds very likely under Ed Miliband, doesn’t it?
       
      Rarely a day goes by when that ‘towering intellect’ doesn’t deliver a crushing broadside to worst excesses of tory market reforms and creeping privatisation by fiercely agreeing with those tory policies.

    36. Sunshine on Crieff says:

      A lot of my frustrations with the British Labour Party, and in particular with many of its leaders and public figures in Scotland, are encapsulated in that article. It seems to have become a cosy little organisation where people can be comfortable with their radical attitudes – on, say nuclear disarmament, worker solidarity (as long as it is restricted to, by their definition, non-foreign workers), curbing the excesses of modern capitalism – as long as they don’t have to actually challenge the existing power structures, as long as they don’t have to actually change anything.

      They can debate issues, perhaps campaign, even run for office, hell, they can even carve out a nice little career and earn quite a lot of money over time; and keep those radical attitudes that bring such feelings of self-satisfaction, safe in the knowledge that the British political system will prevent them from having to introduce any radical changes that may risk their own comfortable existence.

      The Labour Party has become a kind of Rotary Club for faux-radicals.

    37. CameronB says:

      Isn’t the author Duncan “Bukharin” Horse’s something or other?

    38. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “When exactly is the referendum on Bath’s secession from Somerset?”

      Trolling is one thing, but that’s such retarded trolling I’m calling it a warning. Careful now.

    39. EmbraBoffin says:

      The usual collection of delusional drivel, wilfull blinkered thinking and PRATTs* from Mr BothersAll.
      * Points Refuted A Thousand Times 

    40. pmcrek says:

      Said it many times and I’ll keep saying it, the UK irrespective of Government has done more to oppose social justice around the world historically than any other state and this legacy continues today in the form of illegal wars, arms profiteering and a number of other more insidious methods.

    41. Jeannie says:

      Again, I just don’t understand supporters of the Labour Party.  I agree with their wish for social justice but I wanted social justice when Labour was in power for thirteen years and I didn’t get it.  Where was their concern for social justice when they bombed the hell out of Baghdad, committed war crimes and caused a humanitarian disaster.  If my party had done that, there’s no way I could still belong to it and still hold my head up.  Why are their members not embarrassed?  After that, I’d be keeping damn quiet about my membership, not openly boasting about it.

    42. fordie says:

      @ Sunshine on Crieff
      Nice.

    43. DMyers says:

      Homophobe.
      How rude! :-p

    44. Geoff Huijer says:

      I cannot, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would
      want to get an opinion on anything from this man!
       
      In fact any organisation that does immediately loses
      any credibility.
       
      I’m all for listening to/reading an opposing view but
      when there is repeatedly no ‘joined up thinking’ I don’t
      bother wasting my time.
       

    45. HandandShrimp says:

      Summarised
       
      Do nothing because it is in the Labour Party interests.
       
      One world government…my arse.

    46. Geoff Huijer says:

      H&S
       
      Says it all.

    47. handclapping says:

      I think Lenin had him bang to rights:- in 1918, he wrote, “I know that there are, of course, sages who think they are very clever and even call themselves Socialists, who assert that power should not have been seized until the revolution had broken out in all countries. They do not suspect that by speaking in this way they are deserting the revolution and going over to the side of the bourgeoisie. To wait until the toiling classes bring about a revolution on an international scale means that everybody should stand stock-still in expectation. That is nonsense.”
      These are the words Stalin used to propound his Socialism in One Country as he got fed up with the endless negativity of the Comintern. You can see why he got Trotsky bumped off! 🙂
       
      Its a pity …

    48. Simon says:

      Is that one of those “perspective” maps of Britain where it is tilted away from you so Scotland shrinks and the south of England grows? I remember the TV weather map doing that ages ago. Subtle.

    49. Jeannie says:

      The Labour Party and the Lib Dems could achieve most of their aims next year by voting Yes.  It would be that simple.  But for some reason they insist on a precondition – the maintenance of the Union.  That appears to come before any other policy or principle.  If they can’t have the Union, they’re prepared to forego their cherished goals indefinitely.
       
        Labour didn’t achieve these aims the last time they were in power – you might argue 13 years wasn’t long enough.  However, unless Labour or the Lib Dems have seen into the future and can predict they will be in power at Westminster for years and years,  without challenge, I can’t see how their goals will ever be achieved within the context of the UK.  Given that the Tories have been in power more often than Labour has over the last 60 years, I just don’t see the Labour Party ever having the continuous, high level of support that would be required to effect that level of change.
       
      But in Scotland, there is more of a consensus in terms of the goal of social justice, constitutional reform, green energy, land conservation and economic development.  Aside from the Tories, the differences between the parties aren’t so very great.  So I ask again, what is more important to the Lib Dems and the Labour Party – the UK and never achieving their goals or independence and achieving everything you believe in.

    50. Morag says:

      Simon said:
      Is that one of those “perspective” maps of Britain where it is tilted away from you so Scotland shrinks and the south of England grows? I remember the TV weather map doing that ages ago. Subtle.

      Mmmm.  Mercator actually exaggerates Scotland’s size, slightly.  I don’t know who’s right.

    51. Gordon Bain says:

      Unionists are paranoid.

    52. Albert Herring says:

      “I remember the TV weather map doing that ages ago. Subtle.”
       
      It still does, just not so blatantly.

    53. Robert Louis says:

      Morag,
       
      The BBC map grossly undersizes Scotland, and makes England look much bigger.  ‘Google’ satellite images of Scotland and you will see.  Mercator is irrelevant.
       
      The BBC map is a disgrace.
       
      Here’s a good sat image of the entire UK/Europe
      http://www.meteorologica.info/FreeImages/eurosf6.jpg
       
      And one of Scotland
      http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/160255/530wm/E0760082-Satellite_image_of_Scotland-SPL.jpg
       
       

    54. Doug Daniel says:

      Well Stu, I obviously have no idea who the person being interviewed in this piece is, but I feel I can state quite categorically that they are a complete and utter moron.
       
      Ahem.
       
      We’ll start off with the low-blow first:
       
      “my politics isn’t associated with geography” – AREN’T, not ISN’T.
       
      “I got involved with the campaign because in 2011 I was involved in Labour Hame” – utter pish, he’d have been involved with BT regardless of whether Labour Hame had ever existed. They’re both symptoms of the same thing.
       
      “This is not the time to create a new nation state. All that does is create a new island of self-interest, which creates more competition whereas I prefer co-operation” – ahh, one of the two stock Hothersall arguments (the other being “I don’t want to draw new lines on a map”, ignoring the existence of a Scotland-England border already). Scotland is already in competition with the rest of the UK, or more specifically, London. Independence will stop us having to play with our ankles chained together, though. If it’s co-operation he wants, then he’d be better voting for independence, so that Scotland can co-operate with rUK, instead of simply being told what to do.
       
      “I care as much about humanism in England as I do about humanism here” – but not humanism in France, Ireland or Norway, huh? Anyway, Scots laws regarding religion are already separate, so unless he’s calling for our legal systems to merge, then he’s talking out of his arse (as usual).
       
      “I believe that [bishops in the House of Lords] has to change, and it will, but we can only achieve that by working together” – well we’ve been “working together” to try and reform the House of Lords for nigh on a century, and we’ve achieved the square root of feck all, so how long exactly does Dunc expect us to keep waiting?
       
      “at the last election Londoners elected more Labour MPs than Tories and Lib Dems put together” – wow, really chuffed for them. What a shame Labour had to turn right-wing to attract their votes.
       
      “We own the success of London as much as anyone in the UK does, and I don’t want to throw that away” – well, ignoring the fact that the “success of London” comes at a huge cost to the rest of the UK, I really do not understand what it is with people like Duncan that they feel the need to be able to lay claim to other people’s successes. I want Scotland to have its own successes, not desperately trying to hang onto the coat-tails of London successes.
       
      “The further we get into corporatism, the less relevance nations have” – so why are you so obsessed with making sure the UK remains as one entity? And this sounds pretty defeatist for someone who claims to be against defeatist language.
       
      “blah blah blah Amazon blah blah blah zero hour contracts” – this all happened under the union. What’s your point, caller?
       
      But the most damning quote of all: “There is also a possibility, albeit a remote one, that a post-independence Scotland would be trying to get into an EU that a post-independence England and Wales would be trying to leave, and that would put Scotland in a dreadful position, with our largest market outside the common market we’d just joined.”
       

      So there it is in black and white: Duncan would rather Scotland was outside the EU but in the UK, than be in the EU but outside the UK. There is nothing that Duncy boy wouldn’t gladly wave goodbye to if it means keeping Scotland in the UK. It doesn’t matter what protestations he tries to make about not being a “flag waving Unionist” or whatever – he is a British nationalist, pure and simple. There’s nothing wrong with that – he’s an Englishman living in Scotland, so if he considers the whole of the isle of Great Britain to be his country, then that’s his prerogative – but he should at least be honest about it, instead of trying to hide it behind all his tortured metaphors etc.
       
      (And he certainly does consider his country to be Great Britain, because he makes no mention of Northern Ireland in that quote.)

    55. SCED300 says:

      Labour activists like to shout from behind the barricades, it means they never really need to do anything.

    56. DMyers says:

      when there is repeatedly no ‘joined up thinking’ I don’t
      bother wasting my time.
      There’s no thinking there at all, never mind the ‘joined up’ variety.

    57. ianbrotherhood says:

       ‘And if our fate is in our own hands we can never truly lose, because we’ll have hope.’
       
      That’s a great line Rev. Right up there with the best.

    58. Paul Martin says:

      Q. Would you like to get away from having the democratic travesty of unelected lords in a second chamber ?
       
      Donut: “Yes, but I’ll wait for a radical labour party elected in the UK to do that”
       
      Q. Would you like to see the end of nuclear weapons in this country ?
       
      Donut: “Of course, but again I’ll wait for a radical UK elected labour party to take that step.
       
      Q. Would you like to see blah … ?
       
      Donut: “Again yes, but I’ll wait for blah to be delivered by a radical Labour UK government”
       
      Q. How and when will this all happen ?
       
      Donut: “I haven’t got a fucking clue to be honest. Maybe never. But I’m fucked if I’d see the Scottish region get away from it on its own. Solidarity !”
       

    59. Richard Lucas says:

      A well-known Unionist blogger has recently been tweeting in defence of his right to call people ‘morons’ and ‘idiots’. That is all.

    60. HandandShrimp says:

      sced300
       
      They don’t even shout from behind the barricades any more. They pay someone on a zero hour contract to do it for them.

    61. ianbrotherhood says:

      Perhaps Dunc would like to try and answer some questions raised by the Law Society of Scotland, as detailed in this NNS article:
       
      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7820-law-society-no-campaign-must-answer-on-further-devolution

    62. Doug Daniel says:

      “A well-known Unionist blogger has recently been tweeting in defence of his right to call people ‘morons’ and ‘idiots’. That is all.”
       
      I don’t have a problem with people using the terms “moron” or “idiot”, as long as it’s warranted. Oh, and as long as the person in question isn’t the type of person who tries to police other folk’s language!
       
      (The blogger you’re on about is exactly that type of person, of course…)

    63. ianbrotherhood says:

      …and if Dunc finds the Law Society questions a bit testing he might want to take a lead from Alan Cochrane:
       
      ‘...I cannot have been the only one to have been surprised to see the Law Society of Scotland call for both the Scottish and UK governments to publish the formal legal advice they’d received on an independent Scotland joining the EU.
      While it’s always nice to see ministers embarrassed, the principle that such legal advice should remain confidential is a good one, lest we want to see government law officers perpetually dragged into party-political mud-slinging. And if there was one body that might have been expected to support that notion, then surely it was the Law Society.’
       
       

    64. david says:

      talking about duncans.. when will yes scotland unleash duncan hamilton ?

    65. sneddon says:

      Robert Louis- thanks for the links to the maps.  The size of mainland Eurasia and Africa certainly puts perspective on to the size of these isles.  Is it me or is Iceland noticably getting bigger? (damn volcanos) give it an era or two it’ll form a land bridge between Europe and Greenland.  Just love looking at maps

    66. annie says:

      O/T  The BBC are having a debate on 16th September between 10 – 12am in Glasgow live on radio and tv they are looking for audience participation.

    67. muttley79 says:

      @Jeannie
       
      The Labour Party and the Lib Dems could achieve most of their aims next year by voting Yes.  It would be that simple.  But for some reason they insist on a precondition – the maintenance of the Union.  That appears to come before any other policy or principle.  If they can’t have the Union, they’re prepared to forego their cherished goals indefinitely.
       
      They are British Nationalists first and foremost.  Much of it is to do with maintaining their careers and privileges.  They go on about social justice, SLAB in particular.  However, they soon go on about ‘foreigners’, their solidarity with Britain, although this ‘solidarity’ it appears does not extend further than the British Isles.  They talk about Britain as a country/nation, which means they explicitly do not view Scotland as one.  They seem to deny there is even a border between Scotland and England.  Scottish Unionists basically do not see Scotland as a country, more a region, although they never really actually admit this as such.         
       

    68. Jeannie says:

      @Muttley
       
      Scottish Unionists basically do not see Scotland as a country, more a region, although they never really actually admit this as such.    
       
      And it’s this limiting belief that Scotland is not a country, that in and of itself is preventing them from achieving their goals.  Ironically, at the same time as this belief disadvantages the very people who vote for them, it benefits the unionist MPs and members of the House of Lords enormously.  So the limiting belief works……for them.  And in the meantime, the whole of Scotland is held back by their lack of imagination and closed minds.
       

    69. muttley79 says:

      @Jeannie
       
      There is a quote from Cunnighame Graham about Scottish Unionists’ lack of imagination. 

    70. Doug Daniel says:

      Ian Brotherhood – well now that’s interesting. I’ve also seen some lawyers on Twitter today expressing bafflement that the Law Society is recommending that the legal advice gets published. But where were these self-same lawyers and journalists when the Scottish government was getting pelters from all over the place for not publishing their legal advice? Why were they not sticking up for the principle of confidential legal advice back then?
       
      It’s funny how hypocritical some people can be…

    71. rabb says:

       

      ianbrotherhood says:

      …and if Dunc finds the Law Society questions a bit testing he might want to take a lead from Alan Cochrane:
       
      ‘…I cannot have been the only one to have been surprised to see the Law Society of Scotland call for both the Scottish and UK governments to publish the formal legal advice they’d received on an independent Scotland joining the EU.
      While it’s always nice to see ministers embarrassed, the principle that such legal advice should remain confidential is a good one, lest we want to see government law officers perpetually dragged into party-political mud-slinging. And if there was one body that might have been expected to support that notion, then surely it was the Law Society.’
       
      As someone who has only relevantly recenty shown an interest in politics / journalism etc I find this breathtaking!

      These supposed journalists chucked knife after knife at the FM trashing him at every opportunity over EU legal advice demanding he disclose the lot.

      Now that it’s actually going to go against their agenda it’s suddenly not right and musn’t happen? Shocking, absolutely shocking.

      If you’re an undecided; here’s your answer right here!

    72. Dcanmore says:

      Duncan wants the eternal struggle, the perpetual war that never ends, that’s why he says that getting rid of Trident from Scotland is pointless. Duncan and his like minded ‘comrades’ need this in their lives, they crave for the endless struggle. Labour is not about solving the great problems that exist in our society and the world at large, they exist to fight the fight without end, even if they have to create that war and struggle in the first place. If everyone was content in their lives and we lived in a fair and just society, then who would vote for Labour?

    73. Macart says:

      @Rev Stu
       
      You’ve eloquently put into words a thought that’s been on the tip of my tongue in many a conversation recently. Well said.

    74. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Here’s the Yes interview from the same publication”

      …which is linked in the first paragraph. 

      All joking aside, the links look absolutely fine on our monitor, unmissably blue. Can people really not tell them apart from the normal text?

    75. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      (The blogger you’re on about is exactly that type of person, of course…)”

      Any reason we’re suddenly being shy about their name?

    76. Lindsey Smith says:

      Wow,that final segment was worthy of a party leader rousing his ‘troops’ at a pre-election conference.  It was a passionate rallying call, after a clear illustrate of reasons why we must vote yes. Sharing on facebook I the hope other like minds will disseminate.

    77. Doug Daniel says:

      “Any reason we’re suddenly being shy about their name?”
       
      Don’t want Duncy boy getting a big head with all these mentions 😛

    78. Angus says:

      The deluded individual refers to all sorts of nonsense that does not make any kind of case at all, equality, ‘disarming nukes’ (he thinks the nukes would be ‘moved to England’ and that is bollocks but the ‘Laffer’ economic reference was hilarious, as if Reagan and Thatcher were so differnt ideologically to ‘new’ Labour and Blair…….he is having a laffer over that one!

    79. Davy says:

      Does ‘D’ stand for ‘dire’ or for ‘drivel’ or both ???



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