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Danny Alexander’s broken calculator

Posted on July 06, 2014 by

The thinktank Reform Scotland is no mouthpiece for the Yes campaign. Wikipedia notes that it’s “a sister organisation to the London-based right-wing, free market think tank Reform”, and in fact it’s closely involved with the forgotten “Devo Plus” campaign group created by politicians from the Unionist parties. Devo Plus itself is endorsed by “Better Together”, to the extent that BT celebrated DP’s birthday last year.

oilflames

So we were pretty interested when Reform Scotland board member Professor Sir Donald Mackay appeared in today’s Sunday Times rubbishing the UK government’s pessimistic projections for an independent Scotland’s oil revenues, and suggesting that in fact a more realistic figure was more than TWICE the one being claimed by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

That’s a non-trivial matter of £8bn a year – enough to completely wipe out even the No campaign’s inflated claim of a £7.6bn budget deficit for an independent Scotland.

Professor Mackay is pretty scathing about the UK government’s figures, and in particular the comments of Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander (who, he notes, also recently exaggerated the setup costs of independence by 1,200%).

But despite the article we’ve referenced above claiming that his full assessment was written for this weekend’s Sunday Times online”, we’ve scoured the paper’s website from top to bottom and it’s not there, so we can’t link you to it.

It does, however, appear in the digital edition for tablets and smartphones, so given its importance we’ve taken the liberty of reproducing it for you below.

psdm

We recommend reading the whole thing, but if you’re pushed for time the ‘trailer’ article does a decent job of summing up the key points, and we’ve emphasised one paragraph in particular for the REALLY lazy.

“Mackay says there is evidence of a recovery in output over the next few years. This will be fuelled by North Sea investors enjoying 100% first year capital allowances against present business revenues.

‘Both rising output and a falling tax rate will result in rising tax revenues, provided of course that the oil price does not fall out of bed.’

Mackay points to official forecasts by Oil & Gas UK which suggest an independent Scotland’s revenues in 2017-19 would be almost £32bn, double the £15.8bn forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

The OBR forecast implies that an independent Scotland, on a geographical share (90%) of UK oil and gas revenue in 2016-17 and 2018-19, would receive £15.8bn in tax revenues.

‘Assuming DECC [Department of Energy and Climate Change] prices this would rise to £28.1bn,’ says Mackay. ‘Inserting the Oil & Gas UK production forecast raises this to £31.8bn.

If Danny [Alexander] looks at this he might conclude there is no hole in the Scottish government’s oil predictions but there is a mountain of black gold missing from his.'”

It’s one thing for the Scottish Government to issue more optimistic oil forecasts than the UK government. But Prof. Mackay is a founder and director of an oil company (and many other companies), and was an economic adviser to the Secretary of State for Scotland for 25 years. His track record as a businessman, consultant and adviser is highly impressive. He seems to be a pretty impeccable expert source.

So we’ll be looking forward to seeing if his projections, which make a spectacular difference to the economic case for independence, get as much coverage in the press as Danny Alexander’s doom and gloom did.

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    1. 06 07 14 15:35

      Danny Alexander’s broken calculator | Scottish Independence News

    2. 07 07 14 21:38

      How To Smear Chapter Four – Omission | A Greater Stage

    192 to “Danny Alexander’s broken calculator”

    1. Chris Darroch says:

      Excellent journalism.

    2. jon esquierdo says:

      I would not hold my breath for the Scottish media to give this much if any coverage

    3. Croompenstein says:

      Can’t wait to see Beaker’s reaction when he is pulled up on this by the BBC or our fine Scottish journalists… 🙂

    4. jim Dear says:

      What chance the general media taking up these figures?

    5. Bunter says:

      As someone who is really lazy this Sunday, that’s a mighty huge hole blown in Beakers and the OBR oil revenue/black hole scare.

      Seeing its Sunday, any chance The Herald might be interested in picking this up??

    6. Grouse Beater says:

      Rare for somebody on the Unionist side to point out a BIG FAT lie from the unionist side.

      One to headline, repeat and to cherish.

    7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Scorpions sting, crocodiles bite, unionist politicians and Treasury bods lie.

      It not in the genes not to do otherwise.

    8. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      bugger strike out the second not.

      Should read It is not in the genes to do otherwise.

      Disappearing up my own unionist orifice without alcohol.

    9. heedtracker says:

      Vote NoBBC also have Bob Peston monstering Scots oil reserves too now

      “For what it is worth, the Westminster government’s official forecasting body, the Office for Budget Responsibility, believes North Sea oil revenues – including the tax take – will fall significantly faster than Alex Salmond and the pro-independence campaign believe.”

      Says Bob and the OBR and the BBC.

      And they have oddly allowed viewers to comment to, with Alistair Darling’s a Yes vote is “blood and soil nationalism” or another BetterTogether day of propaganda at pacific quay dribbles along

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28159326

    10. Angus McLellan says:

      Sunday Times sez: “Marginal changes in the exchange rate would wipe billions off this.”

      The Sunday Times? Negative? What makes you think that? There’s no way that exchange rate movements could add billions to this. There is? Oh …

    11. Les Wilson says:

      Don’t any one hold their breath that this will get a fair exposure from BBC et al, nor out “Scottish ” press.
      You see, they have form on things like this,in fact,rather a lot of it.

    12. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Skeleton staff in the care zoo today.

      I’ll get one of them to run out for some medicine from the corner shop.

    13. HandandShrimp says:

      The thing is Danny Alexander is not stupid and he can count. Unfortunately he is a Lib Dem and one must conclude he is simply saying what he thinks is most politic to achieve his ends. More Machiavelli than broken calculator. Of all the Lib Dems I think Danny has most enthusiastically drank of the Tory Kool Aid.

    14. John says:

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/11/the-real-state-of-scotlands-oil-and-gas-reserves/

      I say again – we really do need a refined (no pun intended) layman’s translation of the above, excellent article from June 11th on Bella Caledonia. This exhaustive article demonstrates how Scotland can develop the Clyde, and replicate the success of Aberdeen – IF we can get rid of Trident. Hundreds of thousands of jobs could be sustained for generations.

    15. Muscleguy says:

      That article jpg has just been sent to my no inclined wife and eldest. Thanks for an excellent piece of evidence that BT are liars.

      I pointed out that Beaker has a vested interest in us voting No as his seat, cabinet position and chance of ermine will all be lost if we vote Yes.

      So be kind and vote Yes to reintroduce Danny to Scottish society and let us hope he finds something more constructive to do than take money from the needy and deserving.

    16. heedtracker says:

      MacKay says “Oil price spikes and falls are driven by supply side factors.” No wonder BBC Bob Peston left that out today. Who’s in charge of UK oil supply again?

    17. macart763m says:

      Oh, that’ll leave a mark.

      Cracker Rev. 🙂

    18. heedtracker says:

      And Gideon Osborne’s OBR use future contract prices to show oil prices falling way into the future, even though this method of price forecasting is a poor predictor of even medium term prices. It’s fair to say that the OBR are a just one more corrupt UKOK outfit, based on stuff like real world facts n shit.

    19. Murray McCallum says:

      Blow to Salmond as respected Reform Scotland board member Professor Sir Donald Mackay says OBR oil revenue forecast 50% understated.

      Just as well the BBC’s Robert Peston will not be referring to OBR figures when discussing the fiscal downside risk (or fear) for an independent Scotland.

    20. John says:

      A good example of the sort of income we are talking about here – I worked on a large oil project between 2003 and 2009. This was given the green light, based on a forecast oil price of $16/barrel. Not $30, not $70, nor the $140 that prices achieved prior to start up. The company in question would make a profit on $16. Another company I know about has just has a facility in the North Sea go operational last year. This facility will make its money back for the company in one year of production.

    21. macart763m says:

      @Murray McCallum

      Body blow for Salmond as Scottish government is required to build a bigger bank vault. 😀

    22. Clootie says:

      From the sharp end.

      I know we are going to double production over the next 12 months and I don’t work for a small company.

      The investment over the last two years is about to be turned into production.

      …but what do we know. We only work in the industry and perhaps that explains why almost 70% of us are going to vote YES!

    23. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      macart763

      and order new range of calculators with extra zeros.

    24. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      millions, billions, trillions, quadrillions and brazilians.

    25. heedtracker says:

      On the BetterTogether vote no BBC side, Bob Peston, dad’s a Labour Lord, says-

      “Or to put it another way, residents of Scotland are being asked to make arguably the most momentous constitutional decision in their history in the absence of some material financial information – which would ultimately be decided in talks between Westminster and Edinburgh, and by markets.”

      “In the absence of some material information” and it’s absent info due in large part to BBC liars and misinformers and rare old propagandists like Bob.

    26. Grouse Beater says:

      Macart warns: Body blow for Salmond as Scottish government is required to build a bigger bank vault

      Aye, very perceptive.

      That will cost a ton of money. In turn, we will have to raise taxes, forego a national health service, cancel pensions, and eat dog cooked in the street.

    27. eezy says:

      Let’s start passing this around guys.
      I know Wings is well read but we can all do our bit to.
      Get it out there….I’m jusy about to do my bit….

      http://www.eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com

    28. eezy says:

      jusy 🙂

    29. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      GB

      Wot, like in the North Korean back street?

      With that and the West Coast developments we will have to up our immigration policy.

      I wonder if we will introduce a quota policy, to maintain a harmonius mix?

      Blood and soil first?

    30. macart763m says:

      @BTP

      Beaker will have the squirrel patrol working on a come back even as we speak. Betcha there have been either another mis brief or some number cruncher in the OBR forgot to carry the one or shift the decimal point. 😀

    31. a2 says:

      Let’s not forget Danny can’t even pass a £10 shopping trip with an aid to put tins in his basket for him.

    32. khambatta says:

      Weren’t there links between Reform Scotland and the chappy at Standard Life? I seem to recall that was the organisation calling for an end to the minimum wage (and not by replacing it with a living wage).

    33. Kenneth Shaw says:

      Ah , a dog is not just for Christmas, its for after a Yes vote as well .

    34. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Grouse beater, were you alluding to Hotdogstall, heaven forbid he turns up

      BtP, nah, I prefer my Marag dubh without soil.

    35. Mike says:

      “So we’ll be looking forward to seeing if his projections, which make a spectacular difference to the economic case for independence, get as much coverage in the press as Danny Alexander’s doom and gloom did.”

      The Times has already answered that question for you.

    36. YESGUY says:

      Will any of the MSM get this out to folk.

      Or am i just being optimistic this fine sunny Sunday?

      Bloody scares and smears one week, food banks and OO the next. The photo of the bairn with head cut got me so angry i had to sit on the balcony and have fag to calm down.

      Bitterness and lies are the main points being thrown at us day in day out and we have to keep calm and try and get the truth out. I am bawhair away from punching the next BT idiot i see.

      O/T Was at the shops yesterday and someone was trying to give out no Thanks pamphlets. As i got near i heard a young guy state loudly ” piss of ya ("Tractor" - Ed)ist scum , it’s buggers like you that have held Scotland back”

      I caught up with him at the checkouts , he was being congratulated by almost everyone in the queues . He was 16 years old and will vote for the first time this Sept.

      Have to say he made me feel proud . I gave him a Wings badge and he put it on the front of his hat, canny miss it.

      I know it’s a wee thing but it’s a relief from the negativity peddled out these days. The young team are quick to smell a rat. That’s our future folks. Young folk sticking it up them whilst waiting to get the rolls.

      We are winning . No matter what they tell you we are winning.

    37. bookie from hell says:

      Alistair Darling mentioned skittles being knocked down,sunday politics

      I wondered where I heard that before

      The Scotsman–Brian Wilson

      One by one, the skittles of assertion are knocked down with remarkable ease as it is shown that they have nothing more than bluster to keep them standing.

    38. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alan Mackintosh

      I’ve never had the Stornoway version. Here they do have a tradition of black pudding but it is different.

      The one with apple and sometimes plum is not bad either. Different.

    39. Andy-B says:

      Good article Rev, lets see Better Together dispute this one, though as several comments, have already stated, I don’t expect the unionist press and tv stations to give it much coverage.Nevertheless we should spread it far and wide.

    40. Grouse Beater says:

      Alan asks: were you alluding to Hotdogstall

      Neat analogy.

      All hotdogs are the same, boring junk food, lacking any real nutrition, heavy in saturated fat, wrapped up in a dry bun. A rubber sausage.

    41. Andy-B says:

      O/T Rev, Another Labour man sees the light, ex-Labour minister Leslie Huckfield, to vote yes, he urges ALL Labour members in Scotland to vote yes.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28180767

    42. Tom Platt says:

      The folk of the Inverness, Nairn and Strathspey area seem to know that Danny Alexander’s calculator is broken and that he has less to fall back on than they thought at first, when they voted him into Westminster:-

      Danny Alexander will lose election
      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/28/danny-alexander-lose-liberal-democrat-election_n_5403140.html

      Tom

    43. Dr Ew says:

      When all this is over, Stu, you should be awarded at least a PHD in Journalistic Standards (or similar), perhaps even a professorship in one of our schools of journalism.

      Prof Stu…?

    44. Alan Mackintosh says:

      BtP, I could send you one if you wish? Should add, I’m not from the Isles, but a Cattach.

    45. Muscleguy says:

      @BuggerThePanda

      Back in NZ during my PhD I did a stint tutoring Malaysian students for the NZ dept of Foreign Affairs (they were Malaysian govt sponsored). I got paid by cheque and the cheque had boxes that started on the left at hundreds of millions. There were a lot of empty boxes before we got to hundreds (1 and some tens if memory serves).

      BTW I discovered that their problems with the subject were not language or intelligence related and nor were they anything but bright. It was that the analogies used in the lectures were culturally opaque. So my job became coming up with analogies and explanations they could relate to. They all passed and often passed well.

      I think this is why the varied nature of the Yes campaign customising arguments for lawyers, businesspeople or those at the bottom is absolutely the best way to go. BT does this a bit but nowhere near as effectively.

    46. Andy-B says:

      Jim Murphy denies the Orange Order have anything to do with Better Together, that may be but the O/O are a “Registered participant” on the no side. Meanwhile the anti-independence Orange Order had 18 followers arrested, for violence, where one young girl reported to be 13 or 14, had a bottle smashed over her head in Glasgow.

      The O/O are to mass rally in Edinburgh on September 13th a few days before the referendum to oppose independence. If I were you I’d dig out my tin helmet for that one. Edinburgh city council shouldn’t let it go ahead, due to the violent baggage the O/O carry around with them.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/orange-order-may-stage-pro-union-march-on-eve-of-scottish-referendum.24188536

    47. Grouse Beater says:

      The Fantasy of British Democracy – grousebeater.wordpress

    48. seanair says:

      Mike
      In what way?

    49. Thepnr says:

      Rev
      Please get this coverted to a pdf and stored in the reference section.

      I expect another troll to come along soon to rubbish the claims made by Sir Donald Mackay in this article.

      Danny Alexander, HM Treasury, IFS and the OBR are always correct anything that disputes their version of the truth is just more propaganda made up by the Yes side to fool voters.

    50. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alan Mackintosh

      it would still arrive in a liquid form here.

      I live in SW France aka Furrinland.

      Thanks

      🙂

    51. handclapping says:

      millions, billions, trillions, quadrillions
      There’s me salivating at all those zeros on my bank balance

      and brazilians
      Ouch, oowah, oowah and I dont even wear a bikini anymore

    52. Tom Foyle says:

      The outpouring of Scottish Financial Doom from the BT’ers is aimed at the short-term thinkers, which, unfortunately, many people are – because the economy is deliberately set up in such a way as to force them into that mindset. But, as the OBR comment in the article states, “Forecasting oil prices, as anyone knows, is a mug’s game.” Which seems odd, considering that the Petro-Dollar has been the basis for just about every country’s economy for decades. One would assume that at least SOME of them know what they’re doing.
      And what is not taken into account is the fact that oil prices have been rising over the long-term – there has never been a fall, overall. And sometimes, (usually?) the price exceeds the cost of living. My son-in-law, who introduced me to WoS, bless him, and works for a Major IT company, has informed me of a very recent large new find in the north sea, which news seems to be absent from ANY newspaper…how very odd.

    53. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Ah Oui! Oh well perhaps another occasion then…

    54. Jim Marshall says:

      Andy-B

      Apologies, just noticed you had already posted that link.

    55. seanair says:

      Andy-B
      Edinburgh is still full of tourists in September. How ridiculous that a march of the OO bampots should be allowed to go ahead to blemish our streets.
      I can picture an American tourist waving a wee Saltire thinking the parade is all part of her welcome to Scotland just before she’s glassed.

    56. Dan Huil says:

      Does anyone actually believe Danny Alexander when he spouts his usual unionist guff?
      Regardless of the referendum result I hope the good people of Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey vote the duplicitous so-and-so out of office.

    57. Jim says:

      The Brit twats are at it on the BBC comments page on the story about the oil revenues, voting down any comment that supports independence.

    58. handclapping says:

      The trouble with all these economic arguments is that we, well you as I’ll be well dead by then, won’t know if the decision, whatever it is, was a “good” one or a “bad” one for the people in Scotland in aggregate until 2034 or thereby.

      On 18 September 2014 we have to make a decision on incomplete information. The best decision to make in such circumstances is the one that leaves you the greatest number of possibilities. Make your own chances or shackle yourself to a corpse?

    59. Andy-B says:

      @Jim Marshall.

      No need to apologise Jim, people often double post news on Rev’, site, I’ve done it myself.

    60. Thepnr says:

      @Jim
      I wouldn’t bother commenting any any article the BBC allow that is related to Independence. It just fans the flames.

    61. Grouse Beater says:

      Damn! Djokovic has broken Federerer…erer’s serve.

    62. bookie from hell says:

      Jim Murphy

      “100 towns in 100 days”tour on behalf of Better Together

      next paragraph

      its partly hype,not actually on stump for 100 days,nor is it 100 towns,but 100 street meetings,often several in one town

      ROLF

    63. Capella says:

      Current oil price is $110.64 per barrel. That’s about $12 higher than the OBR prediction. We are producing around 1.4 million barrels per day so that’s $17m per day more than the OBR prediction which is $6b more in a year. Of course prices can fall as well as rise but the OBR has given a very pessimistic prediction, possibly for political reasons. I trust Prof Mackay rather than the Treasury/Osborne creation, the OBR.

    64. Kev says:

      We won’t hear a word of this from the MSM. Watched Politics Scotland today (need to stop really)as I was curious if they would mention the claims from Professor Anne Glover, Chief Scientific Advisor to Manuel Barosso, that Scotland’s research funding wouldn’t be affected at all by independence. But ofcourse not, and instead they regurgitated the same story they had covered during the week that accused the SNP of bullying academics who claimed that funding would be lost. (And they ofcourse failed to mention the fact the BBC had done exactly that to Professor Robertson).

      At the very least one would have expected from a state broadcaster some minor discussion about the major incident that was the arrest of 18 people at the Orange Order March yesterday which included a 12 year old girl being struck on the head with a missile, but no, not even a mention in their newspiece.

      They are not even a NEWS broadcaster anymore, they are an absolute full on mouthpiece for BT, to the point that should Yes actually win on the 18th of September I can honestly see them doing a Fox News and say no, Yes haven’t won, the No’s have it!!

    65. Brian Powell says:

      While it’s good that the ex-Labour minister, Leslie Huckfield, is voting Yes, and it would be even better if Labour voters voted Yes; his suggesting Labour members vote Yes isn’t so good.

      The energy and dynamic ideas within the Yes campaign shouldn’t be highjacked by a lazy, idea deficient Labour Party.

      I felt Douglas Alexander tried that in his, ‘will the SNP join the other parties in the event of a No vote” statement.

      They would like to take that over because they have no force or life within their own party.

      Alex Salmond was correct in saying he would always do what is best for Scotland; that would include not just handing over the ideas from the Yes campaign.

    66. CameronB Brodie says:

      handclapping
      Glad to see you are in fine fettle today. 🙂

    67. G. P. Walrus says:

      Remember that Ian Gray said in the Scottish Parliament: ” Where will the money come from for an oil fund?”

    68. Patrician says:

      “Where will we get the money for an oil fund?”, question well and truly answered now.

      Or in the words of the MSM; There would be panic in an independent Scotland as the Scottish Government wouldn’t be able to think up enough ways to spend all that money.

    69. Black Douglas says:

      O/T new NHS better together site just been launched, has the same stench as Vote Nob orders.

      https://www.facebook.com/NHSTogetherUK?fref=ts

      Just crying out for some nasty cybernats to put them right. 🙂

    70. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      “Damn! Djokovic has broken Federerer…erer’s serve.”

      is that the same Federerer erer who used to be a brain surgeon?
      Cmon djoko

      is Danny Alexander officially a liar after his porkies recently?

    71. gordoz says:

      Great Stuff Rev –

      But way too controversial and not BT supportive, so realistically wont be covered by ‘North British’ press core or TV reporters. No chance.

      (Can’t have this kind of stuff covered so near the ref; it would mean the PM would need to debate with FM)

    72. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      bookie from hell at 3.35

      I wonder if Jim is taking his £400 per month London allowance while he buses about Scotland getting his photo taken with the fellow passengers off the bus at various locations.

      I ask because in the year that AS got lambasted by the Telegraph for taking £800 London allowance (“even when parliament wasn’t sitting” though the allowance isn’t tied to periods when Parliament is sitting)Jimbo collected *£5200 on London allowance even when he was in China or when, by his own admission,he was spending most of his time in Scotland as Scottish Sec which had encouraged him to “flip” his major residence to Scotland.

      “flip” – a technical term which describes the illusory practice of appearing to change ones main residence which allows the flipper to claim in excess of £30,000 from the public purse. A Darling has refined this practice

      *£5200 – apparently a claim for one month in the previous year had been overlooked

    73. JWil says:

      Its this type of article that needs to get out there and be widely available to the public. It’s no use Yessers talking to themselves.

    74. TJenny says:

      JWiL – I’m sure Stu will have no problem with you distributing this far and wide.
      🙂

    75. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      The BT mob will do and say anything to get a No vote.

      Guardian piece open for comments.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/06/scottish-business-leaders-independence#start-of-comments

    76. Albaman says:

      Stew, I take that you are watching with interest the unfolding situation at Westminster and the cover up of the 30yr old sex scandal ?, potentially this could be far more damaging than the expenses one. I hope that “they” will not be able to hide it away until after Sep 18th , Norman Tebbit gave it away on t.v. This Sunday when he said in effect that Westminster had the system where by it used to bury unwanted news away from the public, truth be told, it is still happening today.

    77. heedtracker says:

      Great Wimbledon final!, hope Andy Coulson can watch it with the lads before dinner is served.

    78. heedtracker says:

      Professor Aliebadas Tomkins not a tennis fan, or only when greatest ever Scottish athlete Andy Murray’s winning.

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

    79. Tam Jardine says:

      Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but I was reading that the total amount spent by UK government of our money on private polling and communications relating to polling is £385000 since last March. Of which we have been told nothing.

      https://archive.today/10X7I

      Whiff of nepotism over this P R firm run by Carmichael’s mate. I’ve got to go now but worth a little digging I think.

      The comments page on the Scotsman makes me laugh – the figure could have been £10 million and the family of trolls would still be banging on about the First Minister’s trip to Chicago!!!

    80. Andrew says:

      Slightly off topic.

      The Yes shop in Stirling is crowdfunding for four advert trailers to cover the Stirling constituency. These will be vital in helping secure a Yes vote in the referendum on 18th September.

      We would appreciate the help of the readers of this site as you have been generous in the past in helping other similar causes.

      Our crowd funding page is at:

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-ad-trailer-campaign

      Please visit and donate what you can afford. If you are unable to donate then please help by sharing this link on Facebook and Twitter.

      Thank you for your support.

    81. John H. says:

      O/T. A friend of mine lives in the High Street area of Glasgow and is well used to the O/O parades passing through regularly each summer.She has told me that she has never witnessed scenes such as those she saw on Saturday afternoon.

      Drunken orangemen returning from their rally, were fighting with each other as they made their way up High Street, some of them were carrying “NO” banners.It seems that the rally had ended earlier than usual because of the fighting there.

      The police numbers were inadequate to do anything about it.This is what I’ve been told though I didn’t witness it myself.

      If true, and I’m sure it is, it seems they are starting to panic.

    82. Sinky says:

      I am sure Robert Preston will headline this article in his BBC programme later this week.

    83. Proud Cybernat says:

      Perhaps this will help Mr Alexander:

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/1735-More-Tax.jpg

    84. Kenny Campbell says:

      “the family of trolls would still be banging on about the First Minister’s trip to Chicago!!!”

      Surely the Tartan Trews are the big issue…..

    85. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Just received from the folks at the peoples assembly. Thought you might be interested to see what is coming up next which will not be shown by the bbc.

      Dear Nana, 

      This Thursday, on 10 July, up to 2 million people will be out on strike in a co-ordinated strike action across the trade unions. There will be huge demonstrations and protests up and down the country. 

      These actions will be the next step in the summer of resistance, working towards a monster TUC demonstration on 18 October in London.

      Lets do all we can to make sure the strikers are supported in our communities, and help to make the demonstrations huge – join the rallies and demonstrations, join your local picket lines and bring along tea and biscuits – anything you can do to support those on strike will make a huge difference. 

      Here are a few videos in support of the strikes. Please share these far and wide! Why not make your own video of why you are supporting the strikes? Tweet using hashtag #J10

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19NW7hvYC78
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tKowEkjzdc
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjiO1I92ylA
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjiO1I92ylA
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8LMX0pZ4I

    86. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The link to Scott Creighton, both, is not working but allowing a link to another blog about the Pyramids?

      Is there any indication from the Ancient Egyptians and their Pyramids whether there will be a Yes vots?

      🙂

    87. Barontorc says:

      11.15-ish today on the Politics Show, Brillo said quite openly to ‘the-white-haired-mannie’ with contrasting eyebrows – (just can’t get his name, but he’s the self proclaimed heid bummer of the BT mob) – that “it’s well known that the cybernats have poisoned the debate”, almost as if he was feeling genuinely as one with his guest’s rapid blinking blathers.

      So we’re lately called Nazies, Fascists, and now, for good measure, poisoners, whatever else can be coming up? Surely their well of insulting names is running on empty?

      God gimme strength!

    88. handclapping says:

      Bugger the economics; no such thing as society, cover up McCrone, cover up child abuse, a Government we didn’t want then and a system that we don’t want now and we are arguing over will we be £20 better off and whether we can organise a tax system.

      Come on, you cannot be serious; Westminster didn’t work then and doesn’t work now. Vote Yes and get shot of the bastards*!

      /rant *copyright John Major

    89. john king says:

      I think a vein just popped,
      STV news and the report about that wee lassie who got bottled by those aresholes from the OO ,
      Oh they reported it alright but no photos OH NO, that would be just too much to ask showing a NO banner and a wee girl with blood running down her face,

      Im so angry, I had to go outside to calm down,
      STV hang your FUCKING HEADS IN SHAME.

    90. Tam Jardine says:

      Kenny Campbell

      Aye – those tartan trews right enough. Still, 385K is a load of money to spend on nothing. It takes a load of people like me to work full time to pay for it.

      After reading that piece on the Maryhill food bank yesterday, it just seems insane that such an amount can be spent on something of no benefit to the people of the UK whatsoever when there are people out there who need food banks.

      The one plus is that the private polling, were it negative for Yes would have been immediately fed to the press so we must be on the right track.

    91. Proud Cybernat says:

      Am I right in thinking that the current Holyrood Block Grant from Westminster amounts to £34.6 billion (a decrease of 6%)? Anyone know?

      Assuming my figure of £34.6bn is correct then this means the following:

      Scotland send to the UK Treasury £56bn (all taxes).
      Scotland receives from the UK Treasuey £34.6bn (Block Grant).
      Total expenditure in Scotland is given as £64.5bn.

      So £64.5bn less the Block Grant of £29.9bn to be spent on other UK services i.e.defense, FCO, interest on debt, HoL, etc, etc.

      £29.9bn? Surely that cannot be correct? Anyone know?

    92. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bugger The Panda

      Sorry–the poster was taken down as I am not sure it is correct, hence my subsequent post above. Will repost the link again as soon as I have clarified the info.

      The ancient Egyptians were very much independent minded–we came from there.

    93. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Proud Cybernat says:
      Am I right in thinking that the current Holyrood Block Grant from Westminster amounts to £34.6 billion.

      You are right. The budget that the devolved administration spends each year is circa £34 billion.

    94. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Calgacus MacAndrews

      Thanks for that–that is what I thought.

      So, according to official figures, a total £64.5bn is spent in Scotland by both UK and Holyrood. Holyrood spends £34.6bn leaving Westminster to spend the rest i.e. £29.9bn.

      Is taht £29.9bn accounted/broken down anywhere or has it just been plucked out of the air? Anyone know?

    95. Scotlandsayyes says:

      The latest find was 207mmboe on the lowest estimate in the Shetlands. One find, it is worth an Incredible 207mmboe x $111=$22.9Bn. On the higher estimate of 444mmboe x $111 =$49.284Bn. This is producing at 9800bopd. Or 9800 barrels of Oil per day to make it simple. One barrel is worth $111. So work it out. There are billions down there and that is only one find. Imagine there are rigs pumping oil out all over Scotland. Its worth $trillions. We need to vote yes to nationalise the fields and to take back our own economy. And stop subsidising the rest of the uk. As spending is out of control. In 1985 spending in the uk was £150billion. Currently it is £700Bn. The uk national debt is £1300Bn. Scotland needs to be able to borrow and spend £billions on the Oil fields to create her own wealth. We do not need the rest of the UK, it is holding us back from investing in our own economy.

    96. Robert Peffers says:

      I know what Danny’s calculator problem is. It’s yon wee black dot thingy. Well no really the wee dot thingy per se.

      It’s Danny’s specs whit’s wrang. He canna see the wee dot thingy and jist maks a guess whaur it micht be.

      Danny canna see the wee black spec thingy oan the calculator – he should have gone tae spec savers.

      Ah’ll get ma coat!

    97. Auld Rock says:

      I note that you all seem to refer to the OBR as The Office of Budget Responsibility, when its real name is The Office for Bollocks and Rubbish. When since their formation have they ever got a forecast correct or for that matter even close???

      Auld Rock

    98. Onwards says:

      Regarding the BBC giving this story balance, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
      I notice they give balance within articles, but the number of pro-NO stories is far lower than pro-YES stories recently.
      The “Former minister backs YES” story, was soon bumped by the “Whisky firm donates to NO” article.

      Incidentally, how bad a business decision is that?

      There are plenty of folks who make a point of buying Grants, Glenfiddich or Balvenie, as one of the few independent Scotch whisky companies.
      I suspect they will also lose sales in the USA, as they become seen by many as an anti-Scottish company.

    99. john king says:

      I think I might just have annoyed someone at STV
      and djya know what
      I don’t give a shit.

      “I cant believe I’m writing this as I had more respect for STV, but what your news report left out tonight about the young girl who was glassed by an OO thug was beyond the Pale,
      the fact that you even reported the disgusting incident was to your credit but the fact you had absolutely no coverage of it was quite disgraceful, no blood covered pictures of an innocent young girl, no (even stock pictures ) of a OO march nothing, what are you afraid of? afraid a No BANNER would have been captured in a live broadcast?
      I have cancelled my Licence fee as I simply WILL NOT support a company who disparage my opinions and treat me as if my views are of no concern to them, DO NOT make the same mistake as your next door neighbour, get real STV.”

    100. Onwards says:

      EDIT:
      “The number of pro-NO stories is far lower than pro-YES stories recently”

      Or vice versa..

    101. Capella says:

      O/T Have a look at James Kelly’s article on yesterday’s false “NO” poll result. Seems the spinners have been at it again.
      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/

      “the No lead has in fact fallen by 0.6% after undecideds are stripped out”.

    102. dennis mclaughlin says:

      this information needs to be collated for a large poster giving the true facts to the public,how about it Mr Salmond?.

    103. Ken500 says:

      Scotland also gets £16Billion? for Pensions/Benefits. Scottish tax payers pay Scottish (UK gov) pensions. Scotland gets lumbered with debt repayments (£4Billion) on monies it doesn’t borrow or spend and an average of £3Billions in surplus which goes to Westminster. = £7Billion – the so called deficit. Scotland could save £1.5Billion on Defence costs by scrapping Trident/redundant weaponry and could save £1.5Billion with a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol. = £10Billon

      Scotland loses £Billions? on tax evasion by (foreign) multinationals through the City of London and (Corp) taxes etc paid on commercial activities in Scotland through London based HQs. Scotland has been in surplus for years. Whisky companies evade tax. Vote YES.

    104. Dan Huil says:

      Great article by Neal Ascherson in today’s Sunday Herald. He easily debunks the “shallow” unionism as espoused by the establishment’s favourite historian, Simon Schama.

    105. Ken500 says:

      The SNP Scottish Gov publishes the figures.

      Go to the official Scottish Gov website. Search GERS P30 to 36. Some VAT have to be calculated.

      The UK Gov does not publish UK Gov figures, says it can’t publish separate figures. Only FOI requests can find answers.

    106. bookie from hell says:

      death-taxes and Andrew Neil saying cyber nat every Sunday

    107. Clootie says:

      George Bush was being briefed by a military advisor on the deaths of members of a joint peace keeping force.

      George Bush: “How many did we lose?”

      The advisor: “3 Brazilians”.

      George Bush went pale and his head hit the desk “My god – how many is in a Brazilian

    108. heedtracker says:

      My Slovene girlfriend Jezereena Aliebas/Prof Tomkins now moaning on CiF about bad the Scottish government was to her/him. It may be her medication wearing off but he/she’s on Westminster tv, link below and raging about the same stuff CiF, he/she was grinding on and on about to dudes like Ian Davidson and so, the road to the loonie bin starts here

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public
      “Realy? Academics for Yes and Academics Together don’t seem to have any bother speaking out.

      But of course, the most wonderful and most democratic Scotland where neither the SNP nor the Scottish yes supporters have ever used denigrating comments or pressure when academics expressed their ‘wrong’ opinions in Scotland’s independence debate.

      I would consider the incident where a legal expert (academic) was not allowed to complete his expert evidence in the Scottish parliament as a rather serious anti-democratic incident (below).

      A nation which does not allow its own intellectuals debate important national issues is doomed to become a dictatorship.

      The ‘dissidents’ in the Soviet Union come to mind.

      ————

      Committee row expert seeks apology from SNP MSP

      Scotsman, 13 June 2014

      Professor Adam Tomkins, Glasgow University chair of public law, said Willie Coffey (SNP MSP) had misrepresented the evidence he gave to the Scottish Parliament’s European and External Relations Committee and had interrupted him “repeatedly”.
      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

      Prof Tomkins also claimed committee convener SNP MSP Christina McKelvie had dealt with the situation “inappropriately” by “cutting me off and not allowing me to complete my evidence uninterrupted”.

      The legal expert was interrupted by Mr Coffey while highlighting “inaccurate” information in the Scottish Government’s independence white paper.

      In his letter to Mr Coffey, Prof Tomkins said:

      “Not only did you misrepresent my evidence, but you then interrupted me repeatedly whilst I was seeking to clarify that evidence to the committee.

      I have given evidence to numerous committees in both houses of the UK Parliament and since 2009 I have been a legal adviser to a select committee in Westminster, during which time I have observed dozens of evidence-taking sessions.

      In all that experience I do not recall ever having seen a witness treated with the disrespect I was shown.”

      In his letter to Ms McKelvie the legal expert said :

      “In my view you acted inappropriately in dealing with it by cutting me off and NOT ALLOWING ME TO COMPLETE MY EVIDENCE uninterrupted.”

      http://www.iandavidsonmp.com/news/1461-professor-tomkins-returns-to-the-scottish-affairs-select-committee/

      If you have tears prepare to shed them laughing as Jezereena gives evidence to the Scottish Committee for NO and does she/he like to moan about Scotland. Jezeeran loves Ian coz he’s such a groovy guy.

    109. muttley79 says:

      O/T There has been a lot of coverage of a missing dossier in regards to child abuse this week. Tom Watson MP, has a new petition on Change.org about the need for a proper inquiry into this very serious area. If Labour had more MPs with his backbone and purpose, they would not be having the problems they are currently. Here is the link:

      https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/david-cameron-and-theresa-may-establish-a-national-inquiry-into-allegations-of-organised-child-abuse?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=92935&alert_id=wFoJsiOxwF_OA4MHfVE%2FVQ5Fxzk2FTyzMaLYTKWWQNkvnve%2BHlAKFI%3D

    110. mr thms says:

      O/T

      A song for the undecided voter…

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rI9930fObEo

      Oras Na (It is time) by Coritha

      “The song that inspired Filipinos to overcome their fears and stand up for their rights in two people power revolutions is now being offered to the Burmese people in their continuing struggle to achive freedom and democracy.(Dedicated to the Burmese people)”

    111. Tam Jardine says:

      So this high heid yin of Better Together, campaign director Craig Harrow – his PR firm Engine are getting paid by the UK government for communications relating to polling. So the UK government is paying for polling to help inform Better Together. The UK government doesn’t have to officially register as a campaigner but it can assist the Better Together campaign through funding information, propaganda, lobbying foreign government’s etc etc?

      And support Alistair Carmichael’s mate and put some business his way. I don’t think they care about all these connections – just don’t know why the UK government doesn’t just announce donations to BT!

      Why should taxpayers money pay for 385K of private polling for Better Together that is kept secret from the electorate?

    112. heedtracker says:

      If you do watch the Ian Davidson tv link to his bizarre 2 July Scottish Affairs Committee, at 15.30 approx Prof Tomkins and the committee all together monster Scots.gov’s estimates of the required 24 thousand people immigrating to Scotland.

      Jezereena mocks this figure, impossible, no evidence anyone wants to go Scotland etc but WoS found these Scots.gov stats quite easily so why cant Aliesbadas?

      http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files2/stats/annual-review-2011/j21285207.htm

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-immigration-falsehood/#more-47257

      The chart says since 2002 net immigration to Scotland is pretty much on target, Prof Tomkins ignores it, makes a complete fool of himself and Glasgow uni.

    113. Kev says:

      @Proud cybernat

      You are missing out welfare spending of £17bn (approx), which is ofcourse controlled (ie. being slashed) by Westminster but spent directly in Scotland. The remaining £12bn comprises defence (£3.5bn allocated but only 1.9bn spent here) and our share of Debt interest (about £4.5bn), immigration, our share of £1.6bn (spent mostly in Dover), our share of “Intellegience services” which is 4 times higher per head than any of the other “Five eyes” excluding the US, embassies & consulates (our share of 1.6bn incl. our share of a £25mn penthouse apartment in Hong Kong used as a consulate) the list goes on and on…

    114. Grouse Beater says:

      Intrepid BBC corresspondent finds the only two people on Skye keen to tell viwers why they are voting No.

      “The Scottish Parliament is too new. It’s not had time to develop,” opine or English friends.

      Groan!

    115. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Better Together are stuffed now.

      ‘Jamie’ from Outlander has come out for YES.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/outlander-star-sam-heughan-backs-3819781

      Time for another rendition of ‘Make Caesar! Shine’ : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NC3RoScH1M&feature=youtu.be

    116. heedtracker says:

      Anyone else watching BBC monster Bannockburn there, they say it didn’t mean anything because England wouldn’t recognise Scotland as an independent country for 13 years. Spooky.

    117. Tam Jardine says:

      Matt Macpherson

      This is dynamite. That is the synopsis of the report – must find time to plough through the whole piece and maybe get the ex pinion of an oil industry expert i know. Vast reserves of oil and gas West of Shetland and along the west coast, probable in Clyde basin, possibly also Solway Firth, Forth and Moray.

      This needs a thorough investigation by Scottish journalists and ideally a documentary on terrestrial telly (don’t laugh).

      It is as simple as this: if the Scottish public absorb the information that oil and gas reserves are by no means declining, we win a landslide.

    118. Paula Rose says:

      Tam – are you saying that Scots will vote Yes if they are convinced we can afford it? And if so what do others think?

    119. Proud Cybernat says:

      Thanks Kev and Calgacus MacAndrews.

      Okay–here’s my problem. As I understand things, the UK annual spend is £575bn (approx) of which Scotland contributes 9.9% (or at least has done in past years). This amounts to a £56.9bn contribution from Scotland from a population base of 8.3% of the UK population. This means, surely, that Scotland’s fair share of UK tax should be £575bn x 8.3% = £47.73bn–right?

      As such Scotland is sending to Westminster £9.17bn MORE (£56.9bn-£47.73bn) than it should i.e. £1,735 more for every man, woman and child in Scotland per year.

      But surely if Westminster claims to be spending £64.5bn in Scotland then Scotland is receiving back ALL of its own tax receipts of £56.9 bn. And the another £7.6bn on top which, as most of us know, is ‘UK Services’ (defense, HoL, FCO, debt repayments and other UK Gov. expenditure).

      So, if we are actually getting ALL of our own tax receipts back in this £64.5bn figure, how can it be claimed that Scotland receives £1,200 per person more on average when, in fact, we are getting ALL of our money back i.e. the £1,735? Or have I overlooked something obvious?

      This only crossed my mind this afternoon after creating this wee poster:

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/indyref/images/1735-More-Tax.jpg

      …which I am no longer sure is actually right?

      I feel I have really lost my way with all these figures being banded about and would really like someone to clarify it simply for me.

    120. Paula Rose says:

      Yes – it’s time we got this clarified.

    121. Paula Rose says:

      And my question is – is this extra expenditure equal to the spend on WMD, HS2, London sewage systems etc which are said to be of UK wide benefit?

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Numbers are used to bamboozle and frighten.

      Here’s some plain talking from a Scottish pensioner who happens to be a socialist:

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/9410-veteran-socialist-ena-mclean-explains-why-she-is-voting-yes

    123. Michelle V Stighelen says:

      Bl00dy MSM… This should be headlining. Im going to print out this article to hand out when canvassing…

    124. Tam Jardine says:

      Paula Rose

      If the ‘declining oil argument can be comprehensively and publicly destroyed, and in a way that registers with ordinary punters and not some dry academic paper, we win. I think we are nearly there anyway but who wants to leave it to chance.

      How many people have heard of McCrone? 100% of Wingers but maybe 20% of the public. If I had the wherewithal and time the one thing I would do is create an hour long documentary on the future oil boom this report goes over. Mind the documentary that was shelved before the Scottish Parliament election?

      I know the oil in deeper waters is harder to get to – tricky stuff oil – its a bugger to get out of fabric an aw. Almost a burden, but if we can somehow prove to the public that the best days are ahead and it is being concealed from the public AGAIN we win.

      I’d vote Yes no matter what but we need something to appeal to ‘canny Scots’. We do that, we win.

      (Delightful meeting you on Friday by the way!)

    125. Ken500 says:

      The year before last

      Westminster was spending £700Billion in the UK, raising £600Billion in taxes.

      Scotland was raising £57Billion in taxes but Westminster was adding £4Billion in debt repayments which Scotland didn’t borrow or spend. Scotland got back £50Billion (Block Grant + Pensions/Benefit) + £4Billion Defence etc (less than was spent in Scotland) = £54Billion. Less £3Billion from £57Billion. The £3Billion (surplus) going to Westminster and £4Billion (debt repayment – not borrowed or spent) = the £7Billion the so called deficit. £57Billion + £7Billion = £64Billion.

      The rest of the UK is borrowing and spending £100Billion more pro rata than Scotland. Pro rata that is approx £10Billion. This means the rest of the UK has pro rata a higher disposable income. Higher wages, lower unemployment, especially in London S/E.

    126. lumilumi says:

      Sorry I haven’t read all the comments but thanks Rev Stu for yet another article that tells it how it is. Exposes the hollow construct that is the British state.

      Last summer I was in Scotland, mostly hillwalking with Scottish friends. We never talk politics but I gently mentioned Wings.

      This summer some of my Scottish friends came to Finland for a couple of weeks of wilderness trekking. They’re now all Wings readers and YES voters. (Hi guys! I know you lurk here!)

      My Scottish friends were really chuffed about “visiting” Norway twice. Once on top of an actic fell – you’re not supposed to cross the border there but who’s watching? – and the second time in Karigasniemi where you can walk across the bridge over Teno river.

      Border controls? Don’t make me laugh! That tiny village thrives because the Norskis come to Finland for the cheapo petrol and beer.

      These Norwegians cross the bridge – and the national border – for an evening in the pub on the Finnish side and then cross the bridge back to get to their Norwegian homes. Nobody has told them the BT message.

      BT says foreigners are bad, and borders and foreign money are awfully difficult and it’ll never work.

      In Karigasniemi, euros (Finland’s currency) or Norwegian krone are accepted, nobody thinks twice, it’s just practical. People speak Finnish, Norwegian, Sami and tourist languages. All of this must be scary for xenophobic BT British Empire people.

      Scots fit right in with the Nordic mindset.

    127. Ken500 says:

      Scotland could also save £1.5Billion by spending less on Defence – no Trident/redundant weaponry and £1.5Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol. = £3Billion + £7Billion = £10Billion.

      There is Oil for the next 50 years at least. Scotland is surplus in energy and exports 25%. Increased revenues from Renewables. Westminster blocks investment in Renewables in Scotland from the EU and China.

    128. Flooplepoop says:

      The Great Obfuscation
      2005 GERS had Scotland with a 11.2Billion deficit, after going through it we had 9.6Billion surplus.
      Here’s a couple of paragraphs and main article link.
      In May 2000 I wrote a paper called ‘The Big Lie.’ It was an exercise to establish the truth of the often repeated claims of the British Government that Scotland was too economically weak to stand on its own two feet. In fact the claim has been made numerous times that the English Taxpayers are subsidising the Scots. After months of painstaking research the results were astonishing to say the least. The reverse was actually true, it was Scotland that was substantially subsidising the rest of the UK. My paper was well received and over 22,000 downloads of the PDF file were recorded in total.

      However this did not stop the subsidy myth being repeated by the Unionist Scottish Executive and Labour Politicians, both in Holyrood and Westminster in the form of the GERS report 2005 and I was retained by an Independent policy think tank and the newly formed Scottish Enterprise Party to verify the truth or otherwise of the GERS 2005 report. According to the GERS 2005 Report, Scotland was an economic basket case with a huge deficit which required £11.2 Billions annually from the UK exchequer to balance the books. I successfully demonstrated that the GERS report was seriously misleading and that Scotland actually contributed a Revenue surplus of £9.632 billions to the UK Treasury.
      http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.org/obfuscation.htm

    129. Cyborg-nat says:

      Aye fine Ken but how do these fanciful figures help me trying to hold family and body and soul together?
      Some of that money is being spent on salaries for social workers and council lackeys who are trying to either kidnap our children or “Move us on” as some sort of modern day lepers.
      I have not seen evidence of one brown penny to be reserved help to people like me who had to learn English on compulsion before going to school.
      In Charles Kingsley’s poem,
      “Oh England is a pleasant place for them that’s rich and high,
      But England is a cruel place for such poor folks as I.” read Scotland and that is how present day Scotland is to us and how we believe it will be regardless of “Yes” or “No”.

    130. Ken500 says:

      The Labour/Unionists are not good with figures or International Law. Brown/Blair.

    131. Paula Rose says:

      @ Cyborg-nat – more thoughts on the subject please, I spend a lot of time talking to people who have no trust in any politicians, their despair is hard for me to counter.

    132. Lesley-Anne says:

      I wonder if this question will make an appearance at Question Time on Thursday. I only ponder the imponderable here because, as some may already know, Question Time is coming from Inverness. 😉

      I can not find any mention of who will be on the *ahem* panel but I have a sneaky feeling that a certain Beaker will NOT be one of the panellists. Let’s face it we could not possibly have the local M.P. on as a panellist just in case he was made out to look a complete numpty. Oh wait a minute we already know that he is a complete numpty so really there should be no problem for him to be on. 😛

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      Paula Rose
      You will need to include special concerns, namely the MoD and the Nuclear Industry. They soak up a lot of R&D money, mostly spent in England.

      heedtracker

      My Slovene girlfriend Jezereena Aliebas/Prof Tomkins

      We met at the Newsroom and I’m pretty sure yo could do better. 🙂

    134. Cyborg-nat says:

      Paula Rose I am “The other” in Scottish Society. English is my second language. At my level in society, as the Highland crofter said when the Duke of Sutherland came looking for recruits after the clearances and I paraphrase,”It makes no difference to me whether it is the Tzar of Russia or an English King that rules over me”.
      To us it makes no difference who pays the officials who harass us daily on reports from “Concerned people”

    135. Rory says:

      O/T Rory Stewart is no longer doing his hands across the border as it proved “logistically very difficult”.

      He’s going for a big cairn in a Gretna

    136. Rory says:

      in a field in Gretna

    137. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm, sorry for going O/T guys but it appears that all this hoo ha about the *ahem* is another example of the good old smoke and mirrors because, apparently a copy of the original file was given to the DPP.

      http://tinyurl.com/nzqtxwz

      PRINT A A A
      Fears over an establishment cover-up of an alleged Westminster paedophile ring in the 1980s deepened on Sunday night as it emerged that an “explosive” dossier of evidence lost by the Home Office was also handed to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

      The file, believed to contain child abuse allegations relating to at least eight public figures, was compiled by the campaigning Conservative MP Geoffrey Dickens, who died in 1995.

      I wonder how long we’ll have to wait until Cameron orders an investigation into the DPP. 😉

    138. Lesley-Anne says:

      Rory says:

      O/T Rory Stewart is no longer doing his hands across the border as it proved “logistically very difficult”.

      He’s going for a big cairn in a Gretna

      in a field in Gretna

      NOT on my bloody watch he aint! 😉 😛

    139. Cyborg-nat says:

      and but by the way Paula Rose the last time I posted here one of the good people told me to”Go and have a bath”.
      ” All men are born equal” Aye right.

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 6 July, 2014 at 9:07 pm
      “Anyone else watching BBC monster Bannockburn there, they say it didn’t mean anything because England wouldn’t recognise Scotland as an independent country for 13 years. Spooky.”

      Err! Sorry to tell you this, heedtracker, but they are 100% correct.

      The Battle was in 1314 but Scottish Independence was not officially obtained until 1320 after the Pope, (the head of all Christendom), agreed to, , “The Declaration of Arbroath”,

    141. heedtracker says:

      @ CameronB Brodie, the Prof’s mine all mine, He/she’s showing me round Slovenia soon, its in the west end of Glasgow.

    142. caz-m says:

      The Independent,

      Scottish independence exclusive: Alex Salmond accuses David Cameron of playing ‘roulette’ with Scotland’s future.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-exclusive-alex-salmond-accuses-david-cameron-of-playing-roulette-with-scotlands-future-9588149.html

    143. heedtracker says:

      Err! Sorry to tell you this, heedtracker, but they are 100% correct.

      Dont be sorry. Anyway carpet bagger George Galloway was shrieking the Pope;s a No vote again. History repeating but worked happily in the end.

    144. Lesley-Anne says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 6 July, 2014 at 9:07 pm
      “Anyone else watching BBC monster Bannockburn there, they say it didn’t mean anything because England wouldn’t recognise Scotland as an independent country for 13 years. Spooky.”

      Err! Sorry to tell you this, heedtracker, but they are 100% correct.

      The Battle was in 1314 but Scottish Independence was not officially obtained until 1320 after the Pope, (the head of all Christendom), agreed to, , “The Declaration of Arbroath”,

      You wouldn’t be trying to imply that the BBC can not count by any chance would you Robert? 😉

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cyborg-nat
      In voting Yes, I hope to not only bring Scotland’s government back home, I also look forward to having my civil liberties guaranteed by more than the larges of Westminster and Whitehall.

      This is our big chance to take a grip of those who ‘rule over us’, and to codify Scottish values into a written constitution. That should make any future ‘harassing’, socially unacceptable, one would hope. 😉

    146. Thepnr says:

      @Cyborg-nat

      Who are the “us” you are talking about and what does “help to people like me who had to learn English on compulsion before going to school.” actually mean?

      You have me confused, please explain.

    147. tartanarse says:

      ot again

      Watching f1(recorded) and pre show was giving us pictures of previous winners(British). They showed all the prev winners including Jackie Stewart with his tarten trim helmet, but was there any images of Saltire helmeted David Coutlhard?

      None at all.

      To top it off, the first words from the fabulously Scottish named Lewis Hamilton upon crossing the line after German misfortune was “england”.

      I thought we were all British.

      Can you imagine the commotion if Coutlhard had shouted Scotland through the radio after his wins?

      Ah well. I suppose its all non political. I seem to remember David getting shit for his Saltire helmet. And Murray for his wristbands.

      Stange.

    148. heedtracker says:

      Thank you Lesly-Anne, for pointing out that Robert Peffers cant count and picked a different issue too. I was going to point the errors he makes but i am too polite. That’s a lie, I never read his jibberjabber to the end:D

    149. tartanarse says:

      That’s TARTAN and WHERE there, as opposed to the poor English I posted previous.

    150. Lesley-Anne says:

      Glad to be of service heedtracker, I thought I was missing something there. 😛

    151. tartanarse says:

      Or even were there. Note to self. Don’t post when shandied. Especially on Sundays when working next day.

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 6 July, 2014 at 11:05 pm:

      “You wouldn’t be trying to imply that the BBC can not count by any chance would you Robert?”

      Whit!
      Me imply?
      Naw!
      Nivver!

      Ah micht, noo an again, bend the truth a puckle – bit imply – nivver,
      ;-))

    153. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Treaty of Northampton, anyone? I mean, come ON!

    154. Paula Rose says:

      @ Cyborg-nat – you have a voice worth hearing, please carry on – and if any of the rest of you give this commenter a hard time I will be crossing you off my christmas card list.

      Now wake up and listen to what people have to say from different parts of our beautiful country.

    155. Lesley-Anne says:

      PHEW!

      That’s all right then Robert. I’d hate to think that you, or anyone would dare to rise up and have the gall to imply that the BBC can NOT count. 😉

      Just in!

      BBC have been heard reporting that after all the furore over the numbers at the pro independence demonstration outside Pacific Quay last week end they are now carrying out an in depth re-count. We have been able to join the count as they reach the climax:

      347… 348… 349…350… that’s it boss! There were definitely 350 people outside Pacific Quay last week. These cybernats can’t count. I’ve re-counted the numbers 11 times and the numbers always come out as 350 and my calculator confirms it. 😛

    156. CameronB Brodie says:

      Paula Rose
      Sorry Paula, your correct. Hope you didn’t think I was tying to shout you down Cyborg-naat. I just get over enthusiastic some timers. Eh Paula? 🙂

    157. Grouse Beater says:

      Tartan Arse: First words from the fabulously Scottish named Lewis Hamilton upon crossing the line after German misfortune was “england”.

      Oops!- I mean British grousebeater.wordpress

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @Morag Graham Kerr says: 6 July, 2014 at 11:20 pm

      “Treaty of Northampton, anyone? I mean, come ON!”

      Nice one Morag. There was a further very important thing about the Treaty of Edinburgh-Northamton.

      The terms of the treaty stipulated that, in exchange for £100,000 sterling, the English Crown would recognise:

      The Kingdom of Scotland as fully independent;
      Robert the Bruce, and his heirs and successors, as the rightful rulers;
      The border between Scotland and England as that recognised under the reign of Alexander III (1249-1286).

      My point was that the Declaration of Arbroath had the Pope declare Scotland independent but that did not mean The Kingdom of England accepted the Pope’s decision.

      In fact the Pope had fallen out with the English monarch which didn’t hurt the Scottish claims. Anyway that other important fact was Scotland was using the Pound Sterling in 1328 when Bruce paid the £100,000 Sterling to the English Kingdom.

    159. Cyborg-nat says:

      Thepnr Traveling people they call us now. I prefer “Ceàrdannan ” or ceard. Anyway I have to do watch as it’s got dark and there are idiots out there.
      oidhche mhath.

    160. Paula Rose says:

      We hear almost nothing from luchd siubhail here. Good night to you Cyborg-nat, please craft some words of wisdom for the debate.

    161. Paula Rose says:

      Cyborg-nat is from a beautiful part of our Scottish identity, please translate the words from his comments you do not recognise and get up to speed.

    162. StevieMcB says:

      Welcome Cyborg-nat
      Hopefully in a new Scotland you will find equality & peace.
      Please comment more.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itinerant_groups_in_Europe#Scottish_Highland_Travellers

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cyborg-nat says: 6 July, 2014 at 11:34 pm

      “Thepnr Traveling people they call us now”

      Ach! Weel! Cyborg-nat – the term is a generic term and you and I know there are Traveling People and there are other traveling people. Some I would not even regard as real traditional travelers.

      We have a travelers site outside our village and they have never been the slightes bother and are welcome in the village. However, we had a group camped in a wood over the border in Perth & Kinross that were not what I’d class as traditional travelers who were nothing but bother.

      Good night to you.

    164. Paula Rose says:

      Robert dear – I’m not even a traditional settler xx

    165. Training Day says:

      I see yet another poll – Herald TNS – shows Yes stalling. And yet this sharply contrasts with every mass canvass result we hear of.

      They’re rolling the pitch for a rigged No vote. If it isn’t bleeding obvious then it bleeding well should be.

      Watch for a poll before end July showing Yes at 30 percent max- coincidentally Cameron’s desired threshold at which the Brit establishment can say independence is ‘crushed’.

    166. Paula Rose says:

      I’ve got a crush on independence.

    167. bookie from hell says:

      mother of all bribes,will be offered

    168. Capella says:

      @ Training day
      That’s the poll discussed in Scot goes Pop.
      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/

      “we now know that the No lead has in fact fallen by 0.6% after undecideds are stripped out”

    169. Training Day says:

      Sure, Capella, but the contrast between the MSM narrative around polls and the results on the ground is becoming quite striking. Finessing a 0.6 percent gain from this poll really means very little. The MSM will repeatedly tell us that No is a shoo-in.. and that’s what will justify a rigged No vote.

    170. Thepnr says:

      @Cyborg-nat

      Welcome pal and thanks for explaining. Now I’m going to nag you, there is only one thing I can say and that is that under a Scottish government your options must surely be better.

      You may not believe this but have you considered how difficult it would be to change a Westminster law rather than a Scottish law?

      In fact you and your people could lobby a Scottish government for equality and respect. That’s why I’m in this particular fight.

      i know travellers by their very nature will not be on any electoral register. You do you best to get them all on one before 18th September. I think you know that is that right choice.

      All the best.

    171. David McCann says:

      BP is investing up to $1.7 billion with its partners into the Sullom Voe terminal.
      Already established as a key component in BP’s North Sea operations, Sullom Voe has a LONG FUTURE AHEAD according to the company.
      More than $25 BILLION will be invested in new developments west of Shetland by 2020.
      Someone please tell our media, as they seem to think they know better than the companies who actually invest hard cash in Scotland’s oil fields

      http:/www.rigzone.com

    172. Saint's Fan says:

      Been following the debate only recently and from afar, so may have missed where these matters have been discussed.

      First up, I’d address the population decline that Scotland suffered after 1971 and has only been partially salved in the last decade. Today the population, at 5.3m, is only 2% higher than the 1971 census. While in comparison England is 20% higher and the Republic of Ireland has increased by 40%. The nadir for Scotland was actually a period in the mid 80s when the population dropped below 5 million. Most of the decline happened under Tory watch and GB is facing another decade of Cameron and Boris English-centric dominance.

      Secondly, Edinburgh is seemingly a strong No city. So this ‘capital’ is satisfied with the token presence of 12-15 honorary consuls etc. In contrast, Dublin has over 50 full embassies stocked with diplomats and Bratislava has 47. I never actually heard, my ignorance, of the Slovak capital until the break occurred with Czech. Until then I’m sure most international investment was focused on Prague. Further, I’m informed the majority of Slovaks were filled with trepidation about breaking the connection with the more wealthy Czechs. Today the GDP gap is negligible and Bratislava actually has a much higher GDP than Prague. So it could be argued the good-honest ‘burgers’ of Edinburgh are sacrificing much for their loyalty to Westminister. Like much increased high-end property prices and fine-dining, also massive demand for exclusive office space and much investment that goes with ‘international capital’ status.

      Again, if these points have been addressed, my faux-pas, but I think they should be re-introduced as with minds becoming more focused they are likely to strongly resonate. Good luck!

    173. ian foulds says:

      another advert for YES Scotland to use?

    174. Roll_On_2014 says:

      OT

      Here is a wee bit of creative forward thinking.

      TIP

      Many of you may be aware that the Herald (including the Sunday Herald) have until recently been behind a pay-wall that was easily circumvented, for example by deleting the cookies on your browser after every 3 articles. But as someone pointed out, a week or so ago, that method was stopped.

      Given that more often than not there are ‘usually’ ways of getting around problems.

      For example the above article also appeared, behind their pay-wall, in The Sunday Herald, from which, as you can see I obtained the full copy.

      Some of the more astute will have noticed that the article has been recycled via ‘ArchiveToday’ and therein lies the solution.

    175. Alan Mackintosh says:

      refresh

    176. Sinky says:

      Louise White on BBC Radio Scotland at 8.50 on Orange Walks

      Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.
      Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

    177. heedtracker says:

      I came in to work today in my blue m&s jimjams and an old red tartan picnic blanket wrapped round me. Everyone says I look great/ridiculous.

    178. Bunter says:

      @ Saints Fan

      Excellent points. It will be Edinburghs loss for sure and also the demand for better connectivity will be immense, direct flights, airport expansion and infrastructure. Can see nothing else than a jobs boom with a YES vote.

    179. Ken500 says:

      Why does GCC allow these Marches every other week? Give them a field and let them march around that. A small minority. It’s ridiculous.

      Why are GCC charging food banks rent?

    180. No no no...yes says:

      @ Heedtracker

      Very good,can’t stop laughing at the picture in my mind. Are you getting sent home to change?

      They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some will like the commonwealth uniform, others will hate it. I wonder what delights the other UK counties will present…

    181. heedtracker says:

      I wanted to wear this too but my carer pulled it off my napper going out the door

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/230862709673?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=t&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

      I don’t know why they’re not wearing them for rancid old BBC Scotland region cameras

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28183565

    182. yerkitbreeks says:

      The Keynes quote is awesome.

    183. HandandShrimp says:

      My experience of Orange Order marches is limited to the video of the one in Irvine posted the other week. As far as I cam see the primary reason to ban them is that they are an affront to music. Umpteen bands all playing the same “tune” with a number of the participants looking one step away from cardiac arrest is not my idea of entertainment.

    184. heedtracker says:

      My OO experience extends from North East of Scotland to Holland via North Sea drilling and thick slackers getting promoted way beyond even their exertion levels but being told later its the rolled up, funny hand shake stuff. And why not, UKOK private education setup is exactly the same thing.

    185. heedtracker says:

      Oops, that should be the rolled up trouser leg thing, but don’t know which leg though.

    186. Andrew says:

      Slightly off topic.

      The Yes Scotland Information Hub in Stirling is crowdfunding for four advert trailers to cover the Stirling constituency. These will be vital in helping secure a Yes vote in the referendum on 18th September.

      We would appreciate the help of the readers of this site as you have been generous in the past in helping other similar causes.

      Our crowd funding page is at:

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-ad-trailer-campaign

      Please visit and donate what you can afford. If you are unable to donate then please help by sharing this link on Facebook and Twitter.

      Thank you for your support.

    187. Brian milligan says:

      MSN ignoring news for propaganda. I fear for the YES vote for the first time. Denial of reality and happenings, bound to weaken out case. We have to do more but how I know not.



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