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Daily Record Maths For Beginners

Posted on November 25, 2015 by

We tweeted this yesterday:

record30

Increasingly, the line between satire of the Scottish media and reality is non-existent.

The Record has pushed the “£30,000” figure relentlessly.

record30k

30k

30k4

But as we already know the paper isn’t too great with numbers, it seemed worth taking a closer look at the figures. The Record’s only “source” is that it claims the missing money is “believed to be in the region of £30,000”.

30k1

We’re not told WHO supposedly believes this. But the paper goes on to elaborate:

30k2

Some of those figures are verifiable. The Electoral Commission’s recently-improved website lets us easily check the £24,605 figure, for example, and also where it went, revealing that the bulk paid for leaflets and promotional material, with around £7400 also going to staff. We can also check WFI’s fundraising, where we find that its three campaigns raised a total of £49,599 after Indiegogo’s 4% commission is deducted.

Alert readers will be ahead of us by this point.

TOTAL FUNDRAISING: £49,599 (verified)

REFERENDUM SPENDING: £24,605 (verified)
EARLIER SPENDING: £8,700 (according to Daily Record)
TOTAL ACCOUNTED-FOR SPENDING: £33,305

MAXIMUM SUM UNACCOUNTED FOR: £16,294

In other words, even if WFI hadn’t officially spent a single penny since the referendum – which seems highly implausible – and even if the disputed PayPal account has absolutely nothing left in it (which not even an unnamed “source” has claimed), then the Record, by its own figures, has almost DOUBLED the amount of money that’s allegedly gone missing and screamed it across a giant banner headline.

(We severely doubt WFI has made £14,000 by “selling merchandise”. Its website offers only a couple of small items, extremely well-hidden, at prices which must struggle to make any profit at all. All of its fundraisers struggled to just barely make their targets, so we also doubt that it could have gathered another £14K in ad-hoc donations. Our experience is that donations outside of fundraisers are minimal.)

We haven’t a clue if there’s been any wrongdoing in WFI’s accounts or not, or who’s responsible for it if there has. But what we can see is that Scotland’s media appears to be doing its usual job of demented, exaggerated overkill. Not according to us, but according to itself.

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bugsbunny

As the old Record Mantra put it, “The Daily Record, you can’t just put it down”. I wish we could do the same for the idiots that buy that rag.

Stephen.

Iain

Shock,horror, you don’t mean Scotland’s champion has been lying!

Grouse Beater

Next step is for our secret police to place a few thousand pounds in the SNP’s bank account and then leak that it came from some terrorist group, or other. That’s what they did under Thatcher’s watch to undermine the integrity of the miner’s leader.

It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.

scott

David Clegg is he not the one on Scotland 2015 with SNP bad Shelley Jofre last night I was really disgusted I know you say I should not watch that crap program but I like to know what the enemy are up to as for the Record it should be cut up in squares that is all it is fit for.know what I mean.

bugsbunny

If I wiped my arse with the Daily Record, I wouldn’t trust it to tell me when I needed to stop wiping. That’s what I think of that rag. You can’t trust it, even when your wiping keech with it. Who buys it? Die hard Labour supporters, Orangemen, Drunks, Village Idiots, a lot of old folks that voted NO. Wow. What a demographic for Scotland’s champion. It’s offices have a lot in common with the Reichstag. “Cough, cough”.

Stephen.

Neil Cook

I blame Santa or the Tooth Fairy, pair of ruthless characters and prevalent at this time of year- Ho Ho Ho

Bob Mack

Did Kezia do the calculations for the Record ?

That means the WFI will have twice the money they can’t find, when they find it.

Reider O'Doom

Even many of the folk who buy/read the Record don’t swallow their made-up stories any more.

Once you been caught out lying (repeatedly) you’re unlikely to be believed in future.

My local newsagent tried to give me a free Sunday Mail at the weekend. I thanked him, but informed him we had plenty of toilet paper at hame already.

David martin

link to commonspace.scot
Appears to be where some of the figures come from.

heedtracker

Equal ferocious red tory unionist crew use different smear techniques

link to theguardian.com

“The SNP MP at the centre of allegations that tens of thousands of pounds in donations may be missing from the pro-independence campaign group she helped to set up has withdrawn from the party whip but insists she is determined to clear her name.”

“Tens of thousands” actually sounds even more. Good old rancid The Graun, award winning UKOK savaging of Scottish democracy. All’s fair in UK democracy.

Ruby

Could it be that WFI have a ‘Alex Bell’ type member?

What is Kate Higgins doing these days?

Ruby

The Herald seem to have gone into overdrive with this story and the weird thing is they keep closing the comments.

scav

@bugsbunny

If I wiped my arse with the Daily Record, I wouldn’t trust it to tell me when I needed to stop wiping.

Well no, it would be impossible to tell. There would be no point where the paper came away not smeared in shite.

[…] We tweeted this yesterday: Increasingly, the line between satire of the Scottish media and reality is non-existent. The Record has pushed the "£30,000" figure relentlessly. But as we already know t…  […]

Achnababan

My 82 year old mother buys the DR for the crossword…. I am deeply ashamed but what can I do brothers and sisters?

bugsbunny

I informed a Unionist neighbour who doesn’t read the record, when he asked me what wfi was, I told him it was a scandinavian furniture shop that took over from mfi ans was responsible for “cabinet” government. Job done. He believed me. And he doesn’t read the record.

Stephen.

galamcennalath

The CorpMedia are an utter disgrace, and the Record seems the worst.

Surely the time for front page spreads naming names is when someone has been charged with a crime?

Report that a crime might have taken place, yes. Report when a crime is known to have occurred, yes.

However, associating individuals when there is only evidence that a crime might have been committed!? That is well and truly jumping the gun. That has all sorts of implications for the actual course of justice and the rights of individuals.

We all know it’s politically motivated smearing and propaganda, crime or no crime.

Justice is double edged and I would love to think both Thomson and Mcgarry get an opportunity to sue the arse off various media outlets for defamation, if/when their names are cleared.

ClanDonald

Doesn’t paypal take a fee too?

Ruby

scav says:
25 November, 2015 at 11:40 am

Well no, it would be impossible to tell. There would be no point where the paper came away not smeared in shite.

Ruby replies

Is your avatar a picture of a piece of smear free quality toilet paper? 😀

Velvet-Love your Bum?

Kevin

“I only buy it for the crossword”… the Painter & Decorator said about the DR, when I saw him reading The National and engaged him re quality publications. I was irritated that he buys it at all, but at least he’s actually reading The National.

I found myself in a Celtic fan forum, couple of nights ago, and it appears that Celtic fans profoundly hate it and regard it as utterly dodgy. No surprise as they – the DR – continue to work the ‘Rangers’ myth.
Also noticed the DR sales figures are teetering on slightly-over 200k (Jan ’15) – let’s drive it off the shelf completely.

annie

@Ruby – Kate Higgins is working for Nicola Sturgeon, sometimes tweets, so presume she is something to do with communications.

scott

Jackie Baillie Natalie McGarry should stand down I wonder if she says the same about this one.
Labour MP on assault charge joins Justice Committee come on JB call for her to step down,thought not

donald anderson

As I sat in my doctur’s surgery yesterday I tried to avoid eye contact with a daftie sitting next to me.He was intent in having a conversation with me aboot his chips left in the oven. The wumman sitting on his other side showed him her Daily Redcoat headlines, screaming about the SNP’s missing £30,000. “What happened to it?” He asked. “Did the English get it?”

Maybe he wisnae as daft as he looked. I planted my National on the empty seat on my other side. A young lassie occupied the seat then placed the National oan the flerr, without even looking at it. How did the SNP win Maryhill I wondered, when my name was called?

Tony Little

@Ruby

“The Herald seem to have gone into overdrive with this story and the weird thing is they keep closing the comments.”

Probably wise. The BTL comments have been getting more extreme by pro-unionists and they might well be considering their “reputation ” (I know!) should this all blow over and Nathalie is found completely innocent.

Rev: Thanks for the analysis, I was puzzling over where this number had come from. Sad to see Commonspace apparently behaving just like any number of frustrating “left-wing” organisations that seem to be more interested in fighting their own side than the opposition.

I have no idea about this issue and will not comment. But in general, once matters have been concluded, if Michelle and Nathalie are proven to be innocent, I really, REALLY REALLY hope they will pursue these so-called journalists and their “papers” with maximum attrition. It is the only way to slow down the escalating descent by the foreign-owned, Corporate Media into the sewer.

tartanfever

Add the BBC to the list alongside the Daily Record.

An utterly bizarre piece of ‘journalism’ took place in yesterday lunchtime’s Reporting Scotland over the WFI matter.

In the piece, McGarry’s lawyer, Aamer Anwar during an interview, reminded us that within the law in Scotland, we are presumed innocent until proved otherwise. A simple reminder that is often overlooked especially by the media. Guilty in the court of public opinion is a tactic often deployed by journalists and politicians and it was precisely this sad element of journalism that Anwar was highlighting.

Immediately after the Anwar interview, Jackie Bird took us to Brian Taylor in Musselburgh who went on to make the extraordinary claim that,

‘like Michelle Thomson, McGarry may well be innocent.’

What ! Yes she is innocent, as Anwar pointed out no less than 30 seconds before, you are innocent until proved otherwise and at the time of Taylor’s claim, she is innocent in the eyes of the law. She has not been charged, she is not under arrest. There is no ‘may well be’ about it, it is a matter of fact.

Not only is it a huge blunder by Taylor, more importantly it goes to the heart of the problem at the BBC that they would deliberately edit a pre-recorded interview with that statement from Anwar and then place it alongside Taylor being allowed to ignore it in such a blatant fashion in his loosely scripted piece to camera.

It’s one of the most striking elements we have to endure with BBC reporting, it’s maybe not bias, but it ceratinly is tabloid reporting, and with BBC Scotland being peppered with ex-Daily Record staff it’s not wonder the standard of journalism is so slapdash and exploitative.

AAD

The Independence movement has not, up until recently, had to handle big amounts of money. Is it a victim of inexperience in dealing with fast-moving financial transactions?

Maybe I am culpably innocent but I just cannot believe there is intentional wrong-doing here.

Ken Mair

I thought I would buy the Record
then I remembered
I read it last year …….

DerekM

cant remember the missing 10k from Labour getting splattered all over the front pages ,or them being asked so boldly by the peoples chumpion where is the money.

Yea like that is going to happen from the Labour dead tree press.

This is just the start folks batten down the hatches and be prepared to be accused of scandal after scandal as the establishment dirty tricks brigade kick into defcom 3.

Of course its all just deflection from another broken onion promise.

I will let the police make the call on if someone has been up to no good just as the WFI have done,if they had found the culprit(if there is one)then they would not need the police to investigate what has been going on, only to come and take someone away in handcuffs.

If this turns out to be a false accusation,the DR has just jumped off the stool with the rope around their neck,and the SNP should go on the attack and sue the pants of them for defamation.

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

According to the Herald, WfI had three online crowd-funders in 2014, raising £20,823 in April, £15,186 in August and £15,615 in October.

TOTAL £51,624 – Less 4% Indiegogo Fees of £2,064.96 = £49,559.04

According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, WfI raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions (only an additional £257.19 on top of their crowdfunders)

They spent £28,500 during the referendum campaign period and £8,700 prior to this = £37,200 in Total

The Herald notes that after the referendum, it was stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage, and £3,800 went in donations to food banks in Perth and on hiring halls for meetings.

That made another £10,110 of spending bringing the total spent by WfI to £47,310.00

Meaning that £2,249.04 is unaccounted for in those figures.

But here’s where it gets confusing…

The Herald then note that:

“Around £4,000 was ‘carried down’ into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.”

So I can’t marry that up with the above figures for income.

Stuart

Wonderful too see folk in denial already.

WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.

Both of whom ignored them!

WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!

link to bbc.co.uk

That’s two full months BEFORE the General election in May!

The SNP knew about it, were told, and did nothing!

Now you have to question WHY the SNP apparently did nothing?

They let Ms McGarry stand for public office and be elected, despite knowing all about this.

Then we have SNP office manager Shona McAlpine’s outburst on twitter, that WFI are ‘bullies’ and that Natalie is innocent.

link to aidankerr.com

Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!

This really is looking like an Appalachian feud, but even so, it just adds fuel to the fire.

So the Rev’s attempts to deflect away are risible.

This from Newsnet Scotland;

“Opposition parties, and particularly Labour, are seeking to exploit the resignations. It is their right to do so. The SNP have taken a similar position with scandals involving Labour MPs and MSPs in the past.”

link to newsnet.scot

Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question;

“Commonspace was able to confirm that SNP MP Natalie McGarry had sole control over the PayPal account through which donations were made, and consequently was asked by WFI staff to account for the missing money, but failed to do so. The figure is estimated to be between £30,000 and £40,000.”

All of which puts paid to the Rev’s assertion’s in his post.

It seems that the SNP has a genuine scandal on it’s hands, and for one it can’t be blamed on MSM bias, MI5, or the ‘Tories’!

Ruby

ClanDonald says:
25 November, 2015 at 11:45 am
Doesn’t paypal take a fee too?

Ruby replies

For payments received its
3.4% + £0.20 GBP

Handy calculator
link to clothnappytree.com

According to the Herald ‘group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions
I presume the £49,599 figure verified by EC is after deductions.

Cammy

The National is also quoting £30,000…

Ruby

Stuart says:
25 November, 2015 at 12:05 pm
Wonderful too see folk in denial already.

WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.

Ruby replies

“It was in the course of that and the absence of information and not being able to get it that we got to a position where we had nowhere else to go with except to hand it to the police,” the source said.

When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

The source insisted WFI was a “non-party political organisation”. From the National

Robert Peffers

@Grouse Beater says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:21 am:

” … It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.”

Aye! Grouse Beater, but considering there are people who still believe the Moon Landings were filmed in a secret Earth bound Film sets, that 9/11 was the result of controlled explosives and not just countless gallons of aviation spirits and the impact of a large flying machine.

While others are killing many thousands of other people because their imagined superior being is the right God, and everyone else’s Gods are false Gods, even when they are all sects of the same religion. Yet there has never been a shred of evidence that any form of God actually exists or has ever existed.

I long ago concluded that people will believe anything, no matter how unlikely. I’m far from being unique but I was educated to question everything and go with actual evidence.

I remember, at the old Rosyth Dockyard College, in the early 1950’s, the class debating the possible landing of people on the Moon. The large majority believing it was not possible. I knew it was – going on available evidence.

I also remember a debate about automation taking over the drudgery of mass production on production lines. Thus freeing up humans for more artistic, sporting, entertainment and pleasurable pursuits.

It was concluded, even then, that unless the main body of population took control from the ruling elites of the day, they would consign the main body of population to a life of poverty and even to being involved in artificially instigated conflicts so as to benefit the rich elites. The evidence being two World wars and continual warfare throughout the World.

Unfortunately the majority of the students believed the majority of the population would prevail. Me? – I wasn’t so certain. Perhaps I was a wee cynical bugger way back then too.

steveasaneilean

Innocent until proven guilty – yes, of course.

But WfI clearly have serious issues with her and her alleged inability to answer what seem like legitimate questions from her WfI colleagues, if the story on Common Space is accurate:

“A source within Women for Independence, who did not wish to be named, said: “Natalie had been asked to account for the discrepancy on numerous occasions and failed to do so.

“I really hope she can explain herself to the police in a way she couldn’t to Women for Independence. Then we can say ‘thank goodness for that’ and move on.”

SNP candidate for Aberdeenshire East Gillian Martin, who sits on WFI’s national committee, also told Commonspace that McGarry had been asked to explain the figures by the committee ever since concerns arose in late summer, but had not done so.

On the decision taken by the national committee on 22 November, Martin said: “We’re gutted that we had to, but when you notice something like that you have to go to the police.”

A statement supporting the action was signed by all members of the 23-strong national committee except for McGarry herself, and two others who were uncontactable at the time”.

What frustrates me about this it all is how long it takes to get to the bottom of what seems like fairly straightforward issues. The Michelle Thompson thing has been going on for ages and we, the public, are no closer to having light shed on it all.

It’s going to be the same with Natalie unless she can come up with clear and simple explanations that will satisfy the Police and her WfI colleagues (and if she can it the begs the question why she didn’t do so back in July when WfI asked her – at least according to the WfI version of events).

There’s also the basic hypocrisy of the Opposition – the Tory leader being investigated for voting issues but carried on regardless; the LibDem MP for Orkney and Shetland who confesses to lying and has been in Court for possible breaking of electoral law still holding the LibDem whip at Westminster; the Labour MP up on assault charges yet still retaining the Labour whip at Westminster.

I can’t stand that kind of hypocrisy and the media’s inability to highlight it. Why doesn’t Nicola bring it up at FMQs? I really wish she would be more aggressive in taking on the diddies on the other benches.

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

Unless of course the £10,100 for wages/merchandise/postage etc… was part of the previously noted £28,500.

Then total spending would be £37,200 and the £4,000 ‘carried down’ and £8,000 in reserve take the total of money accounted for to £49,200

Meaning that the finances are actually about £616.23 short of balancing

One_Scot

The audacity of the Daily Record – ‘Newspaper of the Year’, ‘bogpaper of the year’ more like, printing the words ‘Trust’ and ‘Betrayed’ in bold.

They clearly are just a bunch of piss taking Trolls probably pulling vinegar faces as they write their pish.

I cannot believe there are still some people who are willing to give these ‘low lifes’ their own money. It beggars belief.

David McDowell

It’s simple!

The Daily Record “believes” it, therefore it must be true!

Just like Carmichael, who “believes” the Frenchgate memo, therefore it must be true!

Just like The White Queen in “Through the Looking-Glass”, who told Alice: “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

Bill Fraser

Where will the Record be when we finally gain Independence.Maybe shift their H.Q.to somewhere south of the border.Their lies may cut some teeth down there!

Sinky

When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s WFI source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

It seems there are internal jealousies at play within WFI.

As said above why has Labour MP Marie Rimmer who unlike Thomson and McGarry has actually been charged with a crime not been requested to resigned from Labour whip?

btw Labour’s Witchfinder General David Maddox has joined the Daily Express.

Ruby

The Herald state the following:

‘According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions, spent £28,500 during the referendum short campaign and £8,700 prior to this period.

After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.

Around £4,000 was “carried down” into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.’

Andrew McLean

Say what you like about the Record but the picture editor got the hat trick, a naked woman’s breast, a footballer and a pretty woman all on the front cover!
Dancer! I think I will get a copy, oh that’s what I remember its full of shite!

The Daily Record written by Idiots for Idiots, end off!

tartanfever

Stuart says :

‘WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!’

Unfortunately for you the article you source doesn’t say that. It says that March 2015 is the and of the accounting period in question, and concerns were first raised in the summer of 2015.

Thepnr

“Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?

Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy)

‘Carried down’ being the balance of an account at the end of an accounting period which is taken forward to become the balance at the beginning of a new period.

Bob Mack

@Stuart,

The figures for money collected,and money spent is in the public domain. All that is missing as far as I can see is amounts held in hand.

This makes your assertion nonsense particularly about thd amounts involved.

schrodingers cat

dr cries wolf again

who cares what the dr says

Capella

The Establishment are clearly determined to destroy the reputations of female SNP MPs. The battle is on for the women’s vote. We ought to be prepared for dirty tricks of every kind. They have a long track record of smearing enemies.

Innocent till proved guilty. And if not proved guilty, sue for defamation. I trust Aamer Anwar is well aware of what is going on.

Dan Huil

@Sinky 12:15pm

Same thought occured to me. People are people. Except for BritNat “journalists” of course; they’re just…

Proud Cybernat

They’re not known as the ‘Idiot Media’ for nought. FFS – cannae even count.

Clegg, 100 lines. Repeat:

“Idiot Media… Idiot Media… Idiot Media… Idiot Media…”

Ruby

Stuart says:

Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!

Ruby replies

That is incorrect according to the Herald:

‘Twenty members of the group’s national committee, seven of whom are SNP Holyrood candidates, signed a statement claiming:

“We have identified an apparent discrepancy between our donation income and the expenditure which we currently have evidence of. We have exhausted all opportunities of obtaining adequate evidence or explanation to account for this discrepancy.”

There is nothing there that states that this group of twenty member signed anything to say the police should be called and the story released to the press!

I suspect the group of 20 have been duped especially the 7 Holyrood candidates unless of course they like to shoot themselves in both feet!

Robert Peffers

@bugsbunny says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:30 am:

“Talking of Record Offices and the Reichstag, do any of you smokers know where I can buy a box of Swan Vestas?

Yup!

AMAZON –

link to amazon.com

Jimbo

Aye, but, everyone here knows the Daily Record don’t so much report the news as make a lot of it up.

It’s trying to get that message across to the people who buy it that is the difficult part. I don’t think the Daily Record readers are mugs – It’s the Daily Record that does that.

Charles

Colin McKay ( Record) flippantly said on Scotland Tonight, that in comparison to WFI, Kezia Dugdale called the police about a missing 5k from her constituency office.

Eh? the amount missing went from 10k to ‘just’ 5k, and it was Kezia who called the cops, and not the members of her office who had ‘ no option’ but to call in the police after receiving no response from London HQ!.

So Kezia was either ignored by Labour HQ, and/or was part of the ongoing silence, and /or it was never her that called the cops the first place.

But the real hatchet job was on BBC radio Scotland this morning. Forget the Russian fighter jet being shot down and the biggest threat to NATO in 60 years, forget the disgraceful abstaining by Labour on scrapping Trident…oh no, the Unionist media were foaming at the mouth at the WFI = SNP BAD story. Who did they have on their show to discuss this ‘ crisis’ for the SNP?…David Maddox and Kate Devlin!!!

Usually i get pissed off, but today, i just burst out laughing!!! Journalism in this country is already viewed suspiciously by most, but today they just became a freak show at the circus.

Weechid

Grouse Beater says:
25 November, 2015 at 11:21 am

“Next step is for our secret police to place a few thousand pounds in the SNP’s bank account and then leak that it came from some terrorist group, or other. That’s what they did under Thatcher’s watch to undermine the integrity of the miner’s leader.

It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.”

I’ve been getting laughed at on twitter for similar suggestions. Problem is that now I don’t trust system at all and even if she’s found guilty I’d think it was set up.

Jimbo

Maybe as a balance we should tweet our own headline to Kez

Where’s the lost £10,000 Kezia

Dan Huil

@ Charles 12:27pm

Same here. I glimpsed the front pages today whilst shopping. I just had to stand there with a [probably glaikit] grin on my face at the hysterical BritNat headlines. These publications are getting more desperate by the day. Great to see.

crisiscult

Sinky says:
25 November, 2015 at 12:15 pm
When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s WFI source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

[b]It seems there are internal jealousies at play within WFI.[/b]

That’s also what I gather from friends who are a little more ‘inside’ than I am (I’m not a member of the SNP by the way, but they are). However, what I think this whole thing highlights for me is why independence was such a good idea. Look at the level of monitoring and accountability that can be had in a smaller state, where the MPs are not more than 1 or 2 stages removed from us. I suspect there’s not a lot (if anything) in this story other than the aforementioned jealousies, rivalries, and a bit of incompetence on McGarry’s part. Compare this to the level of scrutiny we have at UK level. When Osborne and his Tory mates are making multi billion policy decisions based on the influence of banker and business contacts’ interests, how much scrutiny is there?

Ruby

Thepnr says:
25 November, 2015 at 12:18 pm
“Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?

Ruby replies

I think it would be a lot easier to embezzle from a bank account than a Paypal account.

Sure Natalie McGarry’s bank account will be linked to the Paypal account you need to link a bank account/credit card to Paypal accounts.
The Herald are trying to make out this is something suspicious.

You can transfer money from the Paypal account to the bank account but there will be a note of that on the Paypal statement.

If there is no money in the Paypal account any payment made via Paypal would come out of your bank account/credit card.

[…] Daily Record Maths For Beginners […]

muttley79

@Rev Stu

In other words, even if WFI hadn’t officially spent a single penny since the referendum – which seems highly implausible – and even if the disputed PayPal account has absolutely nothing left in it (which not even an unnamed “source” has claimed), then the Record, by its own figures, has almost DOUBLED the amount of money that’s allegedly gone missing and screamed it across a giant banner headline.

The WFI had a big meeting/rally after the referendum last year. They hired a hall in Perth, and about 1,000 women attended. That must have cost a fair bit to host.

Robert Peffers

@Achnababan says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:41 am:

“My 82 year old mother buys the DR for the crossword…. I am deeply ashamed but what can I do brothers and sisters?”

Well you could keep buying and gifting her crossword puzzle books. They are not expensive and would probably work out cheaper in the longer term.

David McDowell

Does that crowdfunding figure include or exclude PayPal transaction fees?
If it excludes transaction fees that alone could account for £5011! Crowdfunding is an expensive business!

Stuart

For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;

link to heraldscotland.com

“THE MP at the centre of a police investigation after around £30,000 apparently went missing from a pro-independence campaign group’s accounts has stepped down from the SNP, as it emerged the party knew about concerns over the organisation’s finances weeks ago.

Natalie McGarry last night resigned the SNP whip at Westminster meaning she is automatically suspended from the party after Women for Independence, which she co-founded, called in police over discrepancies between donations and expenditure.

It is understood that an internal audit, carried out by two senior Women for Independence figures and a chartered accountant and covering 2014 to March this year, revealed concerns about money raised for the group through an online PayPal system, which was linked to the MP’s personal bank account.”

So WFI had knew about this in March, told the SNP privately, heard nothing from either the SNP or Ms McGarry (Allegedly) and so went to the Police.

Despite knowing all of this BEFORE the elections, the SNP continued to let Ms McGarry stand for public office.

Whichever way you look at it, so far we have a lot more questions than answers, and for those invoking Kezia Dugdale and a missing £10,000.

The crucial difference is that Ms Dugdale did not have sole personal control of the account that money was kept in, unlike Ms McGarry (Allegedly)!

Even the ‘National’ did not suggest that!

link to thenational.scot

I would also remind those seeking to deflect about this, that having made hay over other parties scandals as should rightly happen, you are now being hoist by your own petard, and so cannot complain about it.

As what’s sauce for the Goose…

Andrew McLean

Robert Peffers @ Achnababan

And you could glue them to the back of the National?

Scot Finlayson

Looks like the constant pressure by Nicola and the SNP on Osborne to drop tax credit cuts has paid of.

Dan Huil

@ Stuart

“As what’s sauce for the Goose…”

Take a Gander at today’s hysterical headlines in the BritNat press and taste the desperation. Mmmmm.

HandandShrimp

I don’t think I have ever read a detail in the Record or Express that was ever accurate. I don’t doubt that WfI have had difficulty reconciling their accounts and getting them signed off but only the brave or stupid would start making accusations of theft at this stage…or singling out a specific individual.

Of course Labour will make hay. They have so little to work with that matters that would barely make page 5 have to be milked for all they are worth. Labour have no moral leg to stand on. Rimmer is charged with assault but still holds the whip never mind stand down. Even if found guilty and fined I bet she will still hold the whip. Labour are a do as I say party not a do as I do party.

If McGarry is guilty of any crime then it will out in due course. No one should have to stand down if they haven’t been charged with a crime. As for Michelle Thompson..do the police even want to interview her? How long will that carry on last?

In other news Osborne has decided not to scrap tax credits so Baillie won’t have to try and count on her fingers and toes.

In yet other news WW3 hasn’t started yet but you would never likely even get a hint that it was on the way given the SNPbad obsession of the Scottish press.

Proud Cybernat

@ Stuart

Forget the Idiot Media, laddie. They cannae even count.

SNP x 2 SE2016.

tartanfever

I see Stuart is reposting having deleted the link to the BBC story which says that ‘concerns were first raised in the summer’ but he interprets as ‘March’.

I’d give up pal, you’re flogging the proverbial…

Ruby

Stuart says:
25 November, 2015 at 12:53 pm
For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;

Ruby replies

I read your earlier post and it was loaded with so much misinformation I decided not to waste any more time reading your posts. I expect many other will do likewise.

galamcennalath

@Scot Findlayson

Aye, you can tell who is winning, and who is shit scared.

I used to think the objective was smearing. Maybe it was, but polls show no evidence of effectiveness. I now think stories like this are released on queue as deflection tactics.

The BIG domestic story should be Labour, including their sole Scottish MP, backing Trident renewal by saying they don’t care either way.

Foonurt

Sumhin reeks ah aull Herring heids.

crisiscult

@Stuart

I’m not going to dispute what you may know as an insider. Additionally, having met Natalie a couple of times socially, I’m not her biggest fan on a personal level. That being said, there is a wider problem with how the media behaves that visitors to this site see as being much more significant than the content (real or imagined) of this story: with finite resources, they need to prioritise those resources: what can be investigated, and and what can go to copy. Trying to sensationalise to get more sales is necessary when the story doesn’t have sturdy legs in the first place. We can see that and understand that exaggeration doesn’t mean the story is discredited. However, the model that sees corporate media ‘filter’ news is damaging to our interests but good for the interests of a few people who have invested in the UK establishment. This may help you to understand why there is a desire by readers here to a) deflect (as you put it), or b) make allowances for a greater good.

In addition to this, the function of Rev Stu is similar to what we imagine should be the function of the media. Hold those with positions of influence to a standard of performance that requires them to justify their influence.

Muscleguy

I expect Ms McGarry hasn’t had a moment to herself since two months out from the May election. No doubt her domicile is knee deep in election bumpf she hasn’t had a chance to clear and the necessary records are in there somewhere, if only she had time. Hopefully resigning the whip will give her that time and the need to account to the polis the impetus and it will all be cleared up.

The moral will be when standing for office, clear all outstanding matters before starting to campaign to be selected to stand. Once selected your time will not be your own and that will go up an order of magnitude once elected.

schrodingers cat

Scotland bill meets the vow….Osborne bollox.

Kenny

It seems an odd story in a few ways.

You’d think, for example, that the missing amount would have been listed in the audit that was apparently conducted and so there would be no “it is believed to be around…” statements.

You’d think Natalie McGarry, as a founder of WfI, wouldn’t want to damage the organisation. You’d think that if she had done nothing wrong, she’d have explained herself pretty quickly. Then again, if she’d done something wrong, you have to wonder why. It’s not like skimming the petty cash that could be easily missed. £30,000 is a LOT of money and showing her own bank statements ought to be enough to prove that she doesn’t have it (assuming it’s a Paypal-related issue.)

On the other hand, it does seem weird that WfI would seemingly come down so hard and so directly on one of their own unless there was either a very strong suspicion against McGarry or a desire to blacken her name for whatever reason.

Of course, McGarry is innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn’t automatically dismiss the latter possibility. But as someone said elsewhere, this is what happens when the unionist media cries wolf. A very large number of us have seen so many baseless smears and outright lies over the last couple of years that ANY attack on the SNP, the national movement or any of its prominent members gets instantly written off. That’s not very healthy for anyone. Here’s hoping Police Scotland get to the bottom of it quickly though and that our hope that McGarry has done nothing wrong is justified. The alternative outcomes don’t really bear thinking about.

Ruby

muttley79 says:

The WFI had a big meeting/rally after the referendum last year. They hired a hall in Perth, and about 1,000 women attended. That must have cost a fair bit to host.

Ruby replies

Not quite sure why they have grouped Hall hire & food bank donations together and why they have used the term ‘almost’ It seem strange!

The Herald state the following:

‘According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions, spent £28,500 during the referendum short campaign and £8,700 prior to this period.

After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.

Around £4,000 was “carried down” into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.’

yesindyref2

There were two articles in the Herald I commented on during the night, both now closed for comments and comments removed. One by Sanderson showed the detail from which I calculated a very similar sum to the above £16,000. The other by Hutcheon claiming the £30,000 figure where I pointed out that the other article showed it to be false.

But what is interesting is that the amount unaccounted for is nearly the same as the £16,000 odd of the October fundraiser, and that fundraising minus Referendum spending etc seems to show that the money spent up till then was nearly equal to the total of the two fundraisers, i.e. nothing “missing” before the October fundraiser.

So that the first thing to check is – was that £16,000 of the Ocotber fundraiser ever received in McGarry’s bank account, or did it go missing on its way there? That would neeed co-operation from Paypal which would need the police to do.

Next thing to check of course is just the bank accounts since that October 2014 fundraiser, not rocket science surely.

It seems the Herald investigative reporter just reads the Record.

paul gerard mccormack

Just for the ‘Record’, to say (perhaps more properly),’that paper is not fit to wipe the hole in me arse with,’ is a paraphrasing of a line from Frank McCourt’s book, Angela’s Ashes.

I prefer the version above as it is more accurate than just yer general non-specific-anywhere-at-all-on-your arse statement, which nonetheless still applies to all the press, media and journalists in this country.

Stuart

Jimbo says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:32 pm

Maybe as a balance we should tweet our own headline to Kez

Where’s the lost £10,000 Kezia

# Answer, the Constituency secretary and the local constituency committee run the account in that Labour Branch.

Dugdale is the MP for the area and is likely on the committee but she does not run the constituency bank account personally.

The Branch Treasurer has been suspended.

Ms McGarry was the Women for Indy committee member, and had sole access to the paypal account which were linked to her personal bank account.

As don’t you think if Dugdale HAD allegedly taken the money, then we would know by now?

Sorry to ruin your attempt at deflection!

Petra

O/T

Scot Finlayson says at 12:58 pm ”Looks like the constant pressure by Nicola and the SNP on Osborne to drop tax credit cuts has paid of.”

That’ll kind of cover up the fact that Westminster Labour voted against the Scottish Government having control over tax-credits don’t you think? Other than the cover up it’ll be a real b*mmer for Kezia Dugdale. What’s she going to promise the Scots now?

Robert Graham

Stuart fek off ok

yesindyref2

From the Herald, by the way:

According to a confidential Women for Independence financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014, following three successful online fundraisers. Expenses detailed included £28,500 during the referendum short campaign, with costs after the vote including £2,500 in wages and £2,900 on merchandise.

Capella

@ Ruby
I think the Perth Hall meeting was also a collection point for foodbank donations. If I remember the publicity correctly.

Hope Over Fear rallies in 2014 also combined the rally with foodbank collections.

Proud Cybernat

@ Stuart

Are you suggesting here that Natalie McGarry is guilty? Carful how you answer that, laddie.

No?

Then piss off.

Dan Huil

Excellent post today on the matter from derekbateman.co.uk

r esquierdo

There are 800,000 adults with very low numeracy and literacy levels in Scotland. There lies a major problem

Bob Mack

@stuart,

Every branch meeting of any description, or party ,involves a treasurers report. No?

It is up to the membership to make sure they are happy with the financial situation.That involves checking the ins and outs. I do it myself with several orgs of which I am on Committee. Bad governance on behalf of Labour and WFI.

Time will tell all things. Till then she is innocent.

asklair

In this digital-age in my opinion all community accounts should be published on line for public viewing. Take a photo of voucher, (could be invoice or tally from donation tin) up load onto open source accounting system with amount, problem solved unless fraud is happening. You will never stop fraud but many eyes on an open and transparent process makes it less likely to happen.

galamcennalath

schrodingers cat says:

“Scotland bill meets the vow….Osborne bollox.”

The Vow offered just three simple things: substantially more powers, continuation of Barnett, and permanency of Scottish Parliament.

As they say on EUVision ‘nul points’ there for Osborne. Next!

Big Jock

Interestingly the McGarry story has dropped out of BBC Scotland website altogether and STV? Herald has dropped it 4 down!

Has someone been rumbled or have they been warned by the judiciary!

Andy A

I think the item marked ‘Post-Referendum Spending’ of £8700 should actually be Pre-Referendum Spending if we can believe the paper which says it was incurred prior to May 30th.

Yesindyref2 quotes a figure in the Herald of £5400 post-referendum spending. If I’ve got this right then,presumably that would then come off the £16,294 figure making a figure of just over £10,000.

ArtyHetty

As N. McGarry’s lawyer said, in Scotland you are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Trial by the right wing unionist, anti democracy rags is just so obviously the usual tactic of attempting to discredit the SNP as a party, it’s not about N.M for them, not at all.

Anyone would think there was nothing else going on in the world, and no crazed idiots at the helm gunning for war to the detriment of all of us.

What are the English rags discussing this week? How to bake a xmas cake probably, or what tat to buy for xmas. They are not so interested in little Scotland and SNP politicians, but prefer to inform the electorate of the corruption and secrecy of their masters. Aye.

Bill Hume

Stuart…………why don’t you just fuck off, there’s a good chap.

Ian Brotherhood

@Robert Peffers –

You’re a historian, right?

You know that in all societies, anywhere, at any given time, some subjects are taboo.

Right now, the events of 9/11 are taboo in ‘Western’ society.

Does that entitle you to lash out (as you did in the previous thread) at people who go to the trouble of doing their own research?

Thirty years ago, anyone in the independence movement who brought up the ‘alleged’ McCrone Report was dismissed with the same angry mockery you are demonstrating.

Andrew McLean

Ruby 12:39

link to thisismoney.co.uk
Had a look at my own PayPal account, I use it for on line purchases ;-).

It will all come out in the wash, as it will be relatively easy to trace payments, even if lost the receiver will have a copy.

Nothing like a bit of nudge nudge, wink wink, oh you don’t say, oh my! well I never, Shock, Anger, Outrage, Chaos, Crisis, Trashed, Snubbed, Banned, Lies! to brighten up your day!

Eppy

Until recently, I would have thought that Grouse Beater’s (11.21 am) suggestion of how the money could be moved by the secret police was up there with fabricated moon landing theories. But listening to the women victims of the Met Police undercover officers in the 1980’s and onward, my trust for the establishment has now evaporated.

Is the fact that groups of politically active women are involved in these cases a common thread? Are they somehow more threatening to a predominantly male establishment, or are they just easier targets.

And I am still sure that dirty tricks for Frenchgate (another attempt to smear a woman at the heart of Indy) go way beyond Carmichael and Mundell. They didn’t have the brains to dream up such a scheme.

call me dave

@Bob Mack

That’s good advice!

The true will unfold in time.

The ‘BUM’ (British Unionist Media) are already working on the next target it will never end even when people decide to stop voting for unionist parties and Scotland is independent.

‘BUM’ will still be spitting and snarling like Capt Ahab to Moby Dick..

“…To the last, I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart, I stab at thee; for hate’s sake, I spit my last breath at thee.” 🙁

Scot Finlayson

@Petra
Kezia/Ruth will probably want to know how Nicola is going to spend the extra money that not having tax credit cuts will give the Scottish government.

yesindyref2

Aug 27 2015 (hackernews) – and similar such as theregister (I get a weekly security newsletter):

“A critical security vulnerability has been discovered in the global e-commerce business PayPal that could allow attackers to steal your login credentials, and even your credit card details in unencrypted format.

Robert Peffers

@Stuart says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:05 pm:

“Wonderful too see folk in denial already.”

Then why are you doing so, Stuart?

“WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.”

Perhaps it might be because, until there is more than an accusation of wrong doing, there must remain a presumption of innocence. That goes for WFI, The SNP, The Police, The Procurators Fiscal, The media and members of the public in the public domain – and that includes YOU.

“Both of whom ignored them!

WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!”

See above.

“Now you have to question WHY the SNP apparently did nothing?”

Why? As yet there is no more than a rather doubtful suspicion on the part of WFI that seems not to be based upon actual already known facts and figures. I’m no great shakes at maths but even I cannot see any large discrepancies in the basic arithmetic. (Note Scott Minto’s analysis above and they do seem reasonable to me.)

As always I reserve judgment on the side of caution before accusing anyone of criminal action until after they are proven to actually have done wrong. Seems you believe otherwise and presume guilt before proof.

“They let Ms McGarry stand for public office and be elected, despite knowing all about this”

And what exactly, may I ask, is it you presume they knew/know that the rest of us, (yourself and the MSM excluded), actually know? All I know is that there has been doubts expressed about the accounts. The doubt actually do NOT seem to stand up to the scrutiny of simple arithmetic.

“Then we have SNP office manager Shona McAlpine’s outburst on twitter, that WFI are ‘bullies’ and that Natalie is innocent.”

Well now, it does rather seem that YOU, and the media, are still presuming she is NOT innocent and, as they are indeed going public with their, as yet, only accusations, there may indeed be an element of bullying going on. Note I say, “seems”, but make no accusation there is.

“Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!”

Whoa! There! The evidence is that they, the group, requested the police to investigate if there has been criminality by Ms McGarry. The group have only requested the police to investigate IF there has been criminal wrongdoing and the police have, as yet, done no more than confirm they have been so requested.

Which beggars the question, What exactly are YOUR motives for APPARENTLY jumping to such obvious wrong conclusions?

“So the Rev’s attempts to deflect away are risible.”

Err! No! The Rev Stu has done nothing of the sort. He has, as usual, done no more than expose the figures being banded about as, to say the least, being questionable. Are you perhaps claiming they are not questionable? For to do so is to not only accuse Ms McGarry of being guilty but also to claim the rather doubtful arithmetic is a true set of figures.

Unlike you the Rev Stu does indeed set out in detail WHY the figures do NOT seem to indicate criminality and also he casts doubt upon the practice of assumed guilt even before criminality has been established and further doubt that, if there is indeed missing funds, who the guilty person is.

Andrew McLean

Eppy

British police trick women into sexual relationships, CPS no Crime!

British police spend millions guarding Julian Assange from claim he tricked women into sexual relationships.

Are we Alice looking in our out?

schrodingers cat

o/t
Osborne slight of hand

by transferring housing association valuation to the over all uk budget, he then recalculated all of his estimates on this new figure
why?

because if he hadn’t, all his estimates would have been blown out of the water.

if you don’t make your budget targets, simply recalculate the total budget on which you based your budget targets to hide the failure

Osborne economic

Petra

It would seem that no one really knows how much money went missing at all, if it did, and who misappropriated the funds, if anyone did at all. Right now it’s all conjecture.

What I would really like to know is this: is this case going to drag on as long as the Michelle Thomson case? What’s holding up Police Scotland’s findings with regard to that situation? Why are they dragging their heels? Or is this just going to disappear into the ether like the Ruth Davidson case (no calls for her to be suspended)? Her case of course hushed up by the Idiots Media.

Has Michelle Thomson committed a criminal act or not? The sooner these cases are dealt with the better and if one or both are found to be innocent should take newspapers such as the Daily Record to Court for Defamation of Character.

Nicola Sturgeon should ENSURE that this happens as these cases are not just personal but as we know impact on the SNP …you and I … the Independence Cause … no doubt the main reason behind such flagrant publicity of course.

If she doesn’t this will continue as it’s becoming clear that ‘THEY’ are determined to pick off SNP politicians one by one.

Jimbo

@ Stuart

You seem to know an awful lot about it.

Where were you when the money went missing. 🙂

Fireproofjim

Big Jock
Interesting. I have just finished watching BBC Scotland news at 1.30.
Not a cheep about the McGarry business.
So strange. They would usually spend days on the SNPbad implications. Wonder why.

yesindyref2

@Muscleguy
Yes, there seems to be some idea that everyone has all our receipts, invoices, bank statements, neatly organised in a little folder. Bur for some of us it’s not one folder and even if it was neatly organised it’d be about a cubic metre and that’s not even one year’s worth, and it’s having disposed of envelopes, junk mail, scrawled notes, rubbish.

My little business for instance is owed a good few unpaid accounts, I’m about two-thirds through sorting the paper but had to stop to get on with actually making stuff. And that’s being OWED money which I need 🙁

Iain More

@stuart

Yer arse is leaking there Stuart. It started to leak when you swallowed verbatim everything the BBC and Herald and the no doubt the Record spewed at you. It is coming out both ends. The BBC, Record and the Herald suffer from the winter vomiting bug but they have it everyday of the year.

Bob Mack

@Andrew McLean,

No wonderland involved Andrew,we are just the American 53rd State.

Andrew McLean

Bob Mack
And You are Big Mack ? 🙂

Heather McLean

Thepnr says:
““Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?”

In the beginning WFI did not have a bank account, don’t know the ins and outs of banking but I believe that in order for any organisation to have a bank account they have to have a constitution, and until the first AGM that WFI held in Perth they did not have a constitution.
It would appear that any crowdfunders through indiegogo or fundraising through PayPal went into Natalie’s bank account.

Just recently, I did a crowdfunder through Scotland Supporting Refugees to raise money for refugees in Lesvos as I was going out to visit friends over there.
I was extremely uncomfortable about the money being raised going straight into my own personal bank account, but there was no other way of doing it as Scotland Supporting Refugees is a campaign group and not an official charity or NGO with a bank account, and we deliberately did not want to go down that route.

The money raised from my crowdfunder went directly into my account after a specified number of days and continued to do so until I closed it on reaching well over the target amount.

I then withdrew the money from my account and bought euros to take out with me, where I bought water from the wholesaler and ordered blankets from IKEA in Athens. The GoFundme people took their cut as well so the amount I withdrew didn’t match the total on the crowdfunder.
As I said, I was very uncomfortable doing this, but there’s no other way unless the group you are with applies for charitable status or has a constitution.

I for one believe that there must be a reasonable explanation for this, I’m surmising Natalie McGarry didn’t get back to WFI quite as quickly as they wanted but understandable when she had other things more pressing on her mind, like campaigning to win Margit Currans seat in parliament!
I know Natalie, personally and I’ve no doubt there is some innocent explanation for this discrepancy nod all will be accounted for in the fullness of time!
Innocent till proved guilty!!

ahundredthidiot

Re DR sales, if people knew how many unread copies go straight into Scotland’s regional airports recycling compactors on a daily basis they’d be shocked. Or delighted.

cynicalHighlander

@Ian Brotherhood @ 1.47pm

Concur

link to youtube.com

Pat Carroll

Maybe it’s Paypal’s mistake. It’s not unheard of.

Skip_NC

Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. I haven’t had time to read all the comments, so apologies if I am covering an issue that has already been raised. A couple of days ago there were a couple of things that struck me – which should be read together. The first one was a statement that only Natalie McGarry had access to the PayPal account. The second was that expenditures could not yet be verified.

Now, I am not a qualified accountant, but I have been in public accounting for over 25 years. Only having one person with access to one source of money is a security risk. It is also pretty dumb and likely to lead to, quite frankly, a shambolic set of books. When you combine that with the statement that expenditure could not *yet* be verified, it points towards incompetence, in my view.

Which brings me to a final point. WFI’s mission seems to have changed since the referendum. Has it now attracted others who would not be unhappy to see the SNP embarrassed?

Petra

@ Dan Huil says at 1:28 pm ”Excellent post today on the matter from derekbateman.”

Yeah it is excellent Dan and I noticed this ”Wonder why the Thomson case is taking so long? If it’s mortgage fraud, the lender could tell the police in a single phone call.”

I wonder what the Police are playing at?

link to derekbateman.co.uk

@ Scot Finlayson says at 1:52 pm ”Petra, Kezia /Ruth will probably want to know how Nicola is going to spend the extra money that not having tax credit cuts will give the Scottish government.”

Spot on Scot. Meanwhile it will have given her a bit of an ‘abacus’ headache while she tries to work out what THEY will do with it …. with help from Horace Broon of course.

ArtyHetty

Re, Eppy

I wondered that and came to the conclusion that it’s both. Female politicians of the calibre we vote for in the SNP are a huge threat to the boys club in westmonster unionist circles. They actually have brains and are not just totty, sorry I hate that word and maybe I should say, puppets. They probably see the women as easy targets as well, unsurprisingly.

O/T noticed ‘Altered state, part 3’ now showing over at Wee Ginger Dug, I am gonna watch it later. It’s 30+ minutes, can’t wait.

Bob Mack

@Skip NC,

Probably Skip. There have been accusations of dissent within the organisation, who I might add are not all SNP supporters by any means.

call me dave

Stuart Hosie’s reply to the Osbourne Autumn Statement was excellent. Pointing out the obvious that the Tories are running from crisis to crisis and there is no long term plan. Austerity for ten years.

But George continues to mock all things Scottish.

He forgets that 97% of whatever the oil is worth is better than Sweet FA!

He quotes the recent Bell article… that’s us telt again!

Graf Midgehunter

Why did the WFI income and expenses go over Nat. McG. personal account?

It would have been much easier to open up a second account in her name and/or with access for a second person and use that for the daily WFI business.

Robert Peffers

@Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:12 pm:

” … Meaning that the finances are actually about £616.23 short of balancing”

Ah! But Scott, does that total include the Petty Cash Box? Things like postage stamps, stationary, tea, coffee and biscuits? It looks more and more like this is just another attempt to conjure up SNPBAD karma.

Glesca Keelie

Right, I’ll raise you £10,000.

I have’nt noticed anyone mentioning, although I may have missed a post, but in the National yesterday, pages 2 and 3, beneath a piece on Labour, Andrew Learmonth claims a sum between £30,000 and £40,000 “may” be missing. Aye, and there’s a squadron of porkers wizzing soon.

Everybody knows how hard it is, excepting WOS, to get lots of donations. Learmonth claims “several” hundred donations, so lets say 1000 of them. That means an average of £30 to £40 each one.

Our good Rev. would probably say, load of crap. It took something over 6000 punters to get to 120K for Carmichael over 2 fund-raisers. Or maybe WFI have auffy wealthy and generous donors.

Ruby

Capella says:
25 November, 2015 at 1:25 pm
@ Ruby
I think the Perth Hall meeting was also a collection point for foodbank donations. If I remember the publicity correctly.

Hope Over Fear rallies in 2014 also combined the rally with foodbank collections.

Ruby replies

The point I was trying to make probably no very well was that combining hall charges & foodbank donations together is pretty sloppy book-keeping.

They will most definitely have an invoice from Perth Hall for room-hire and that will be a precise figure.

The amount donated to foodbanks should also be a precise figure along with a receipt from the supermarket or wherever the foodbank donation was bought.

The Herald states

‘After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.’

Macart

Heh, who knew?

Banner headlines with unconfirmed figures.

Ah’ll wait till any investigation has been properly conducted with conclusions reached. Trial by press is not the way to fix anything, but it is a way of directing/manipulating opinion and attention.

Whatever the truth and circumstance of this situation, speculation will not help either any ongoing investigation or those involved.

Right now though, I’m a damn site more concerned with Osborne’s statement and its repercussions for folk, the Scotland Bill which doesn’t deliver, a Labour party that went awol on Trident (which is kinda important seein’ as how its based here) and the possibility of yet more military actions hoving in to view.

Andrew McLean

I looked into Natalies past, so she has been an SNP activist for more than 20 years, so far so good!She comes from a family of SNP activists No harm in that.

Hold On her partner is the only Conservative Councillor in Glasgow. !! FFS

Seriously I don’t believe a word of it, you ignore them Natalie, swines the lot of them, writing their lies about you, stay strong we have your back!

Conservative Councillor as if!

Lollysmum

Re Paypal-I flatly refuse to use it. I bought a 3 piece suite for my elderly Mum 3 yrs ago. £2000 paid through Paypal. The money left my bank account & was shown on my statement as going to Paypal but they denied ever recieving it.

Lot’s of to-ing & fro-ing of letters,emails etc but never resolved. I still had to pay again but skipped the middleman Paypal & went direct to suppliers.

Now I won’t consider payments through them. I donated to Jeane Freemans campaign this week & tweeted her for bank account details so I could pay direct into the branch account. That worked for me 🙂

DerekM

why does it now seem like all the onions are backtracking on this story ?

Whats the matter guys did you forget your precious Labour party has 10k unaccounted for,are you all scared in case this story brings that one to the forefront hmmm,or has the law been on to you telling you to shut your stupid gubs or else.

very interesting i wonder if this is about to backfire spectacularly ,i would be interested to know who is behind this accusation and why are they so scared to come forward into the open if they are telling the truth.

Petra

@ cynicalHighlander at 2:15pm

link to youtube.com

Well worth a watch cynicalHighlander ….. I’m a cynical lowlander, lol. So cynical that I’ve been asking myself from day one if it’s possible that another ‘group’ attacked Paris recently because let’s face it if it was Daesh they must have known that their cronies, ‘troops’, in Iraq and Syria would subsequently take an even greater hammering. Then again if it was Daesh supporters does their venom and anger supersede their ability to reason?

Whatever the case some of the points raised and events analysed in this video highlight that this type of act, by so-called own side, has been proven historically to be ‘common practise’ … a practise carried out to influence the masses to support ‘them’ in achieving their short-term aim / s and in doing so, when realised, furthering their long-term objective / agenda.

Thepnr

@Heather McLean

Many thanks for that detailed response to my query.

Robert Peffers

@Stuart says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:53 pm:

“For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;”

If you don’t mind I will not click on a direct link to a ratpack MSM source. Either archive it or understand it will not be clicked.

muttley79

As far as I can tell the bottom line in the situation with Natalie McGarry, and in regards to Michelle Thompson as well, is that if Nicola Sturgeon thinks they have become a liability or damaging to the SNP, and she thinks she will have difficulty in defending them in public, then they will be asked to stand down as MPs. Even if they have broken no law, if the FM and the SNP leadership as a whole assess that they have become a liability, then they will be asked to stand down imo. In the environment we are operating in then that to me is the endgame, unless both SNP MP come up with explanations that are strong enough to be accepted by the majority of voters in Scotland.

Auld Rock

So what’s happened to the Plice investigation into the alleged missing £10,000,000,000 (based on DR’s arithmetic methodology)from Kez’s Constituency Office petty cash? Never hear much about that from DR, BBC et al!!!!!! Forgot SNP-BAD, silly me.

Auld Rock

Patrick Roden

Checked the daily redcoat today to see what garbage they were now spouting…strangely enough the story seemed to be dropped!

Something’s A FOOT (boom boom)

Robert Peffers

@yesindyref2 says: 25 November, 2015 at 1:16 pm:

“It seems the Herald investigative reporter just reads the Record”

More likely that the Herald and Record use a News Agency and would get the same information from it. Of course to reach the same conclusion there may well also have been collusion. I often feel the MSM act together and suspect they are fed stories from the Establishment who in turn get them from the so called security services.

Looking at their track record of such cases as Willie McRae and other suspicious deaths of those the Establishment saw as their enemies gives cause for worry.

Suzanne

@yesindyref2 at 1:16 pm

So that the first thing to check is – was that £16,000 of the Ocotber fundraiser ever received in McGarry’s bank account, or did it go missing on its way there? That would neeed co-operation from Paypal which would need the police to do.

Spot on. First, that was a big account for Natalie to handle on her own. Having said that, hindsight is always an irritating teacher when something goes wrong.

If you have hundreds and hundreds of pounds flowing in and out, and you’re not keeping a regular tally on every single transfer and marrying each transaction up with in and out, who’s to say that Paypal didn’t cock it up at one point? Or her bank?

Then there’s the possibility of her Paypal account having been hacked, of course.

There’s always a simple explanation. It’s easily unravelled. And is she ABSOLUTELY sure that no-one had access to her log-in details?

I will not believe that someone in so prominent a position within her constituency and in WFI would have deliberately mismanaged the funds. She’s an intelligent woman who would know that each and every single SNP candidate / MP will be watched by the media and the opposition for the slightest chance of a media frenzy.

Lots of ifs and buts, but I’m confident there is a simple explanation and I’m confident in the police finding the answers.

scott

Labour MP Marie Rimmer faces trial over alleged ‘referendum assault’next year

Will someone ask Jackie Baillie if this MP should give up the whip as she is charged not like the SNP MSPs and will Shelley of Scotland 2015 be asking questions about her.

Kevin Evans

Typical journalism – like frenchgate the smear goes out in full on mode. That’s the important job done. Any retraction or follow up story correcting facts will be printed on page 10 in small print.

Wether it’s true or not the damage has been done. Simple.

G. Campbell

Euan McColm liked this:

Simon Pia @SimonPia1 Nov 24
Journos 1st & foremost are critics especially comes to politics – too many in Scotland tho are now cheerleaders – fans with laptops

link to twitter.com

In Simon’s head, he’s talking about the SNP. In Euan’s head, the Tory government doesn’t exist.

Petra

Macart says at 2:46 pm ….Ah’ll wait till any investigation has been properly conducted with conclusions reached. Trial by press is not the way to fix anything …. Right now though, I’m a damn site more concerned with Osborne’s statement and its repercussions for folk, the Scotland Bill which doesn’t deliver, a Labour party that went awol on Trident (which is kinda important seein’ as how its based here) and the possibility of yet more military actions hoving in to view.”

Me to Macart. Osborne reiterating that the Vow has been fulfilled when the ‘Lords’ are basically saying it’s a shambles (for who?), intent on destroying Scotland, publicly humiliating the Scots at every opportunity and practically salivating at the mouth for War (lots of money to be made right enough). All very concerning with N McGarry acting as a distraction.

At a time in our history when we REALLY need a strong Labour Leader, such as a Smith or Cook, we have copped booby prize Corbyn! It’s becoming clearer by the day that the saviour of the Labour Party is nothing less than a malingering wee wimp. I wonder how many of the individuals who flocked to support him will have decided to dump him now … overnight? Abstaining on voting against Trident renewal would be the last straw for them I would think. Absolutely unbelievable.

Then there’s Scotland’s answer to Pinocchio (contesting the Baillie title), IAN MURRAY … ‘Scotland will be the most powerfully devolved country in the World’ … who informed the electorate pre-election that he was anti-Trident but has also abstained. So in reality Scotland ‘the most … World’ is lumbered with weapons of mass destruction that the population don’t want, most politicians don’t want, the Churches, Civic organisations etc don’t want. ‘Powerful’ and ‘Devolved’ are the last two words that come to mind in this case.

As they sit on their hands saying nothing Kezia Dugdale has been yapping her head off as usual telling Scotland, via SLabs very own foghorn the Daily Record, that there should be ”Less Talk (ha, ha coming from her): More Action on saving Credit Cuts.” Now you’d think that this was being directed at her own Party for voting against the Scottish Government having control over Tax Credits, but no you’ve guessed it … it’s the SNP once again.

As her cronies abstained and she bleated on pouring forth a load of old mathematical mince Nicola Sturgeon has been asking Dugdale, in Holyrood, to give up on the SNP ‘bbaad’ mantra and join her in putting up a fight against Osborne’s proposals, to no avail: Response smirks and grimaces. Anyway it doesn’t matter now, as it would seem that people like Nicola Sturgeon have made a positive difference, result being that Osborne has decided to carry on with the status quo. Labours behaviour during this period, in particular, will hopefully have proven to be a REAL eye opener for anyone thinking of voting for them next May.

ArtyHetty

Macart @2.46
you are right, there are now more pressing issues to deal with. The corp media will do what they want no, big untruths on their front page, damage done.

Any news on grizzly’s autumn attack on the poor especially in Scotland where they will never need our votes, yet?

geeo

Did anyone notice that the SNP have introduced a ten minute rule bill today, after the autumn statement debate ?

Title of the Bill ?

“Scottish votes for Scottish laws”

2nd reading for March 2016.

Gotta love the SNP ????????????

cynicalHighlander

@Petra

There are a lot more cynics hiding in the woodwork and re Paris first on my list would be Mossad, MI5/MI6 with the CIA who have all been complicit in acts of terrorism around the globe.

Alex Beveridge

When the 56 were elected, surely we all realised the establishment weren’t going to take this lying down. As with the referendum, when every Whitehall ministry worked flat out to try to prevent us securing a Yes vote, surely these smears have Westminster’s fingerprints all over them.
I have no knowledge whether Michelle or Natalie are guilty of anything, but certainly people usually only see the headlines, so the damage has been done, but then, did we really expect anything else. If so, then we have been incredibly naive. If we learned anything from the referendum campaign, it was that the Westminster establishment would go to any lengths to keep their control of Scotland, and it’s people.
The reverse of course will apply if the two ladies are found innocent of any wrongdoing in relation to the alleged offences. That “news” will be buried by the media, no retractions, no apologies, and the same will go for the unionist politicians who have no shame, despite their near libellous pronouncements on these matters.

David McDowell

Re: the odd dropping of the story by the BUM (British Unionist Media).

Perhaps the whole thing is an SNP sting operation?

McGarry has a watertight explanation, the BUM have taken the bait hook line and sinker, and now she is going to sue all their lying asses off.

Wouldn’t that be hilarious?!

Ken500

Osbourne is taxing the Oil sector 75% that is why Oil revenues are falling and thousands of jobs are being lost.

Osbourne a complete lying crook.

The new Scottish Tax raising powers will be used to tax – tax evading Tories like Osbourne who are costing Scotland £Billions. Westminster policies are costing Scotland £Billions. More Oil and Gas has to be imported, putting up the balance of payments, and the Debt. Scotland is losing thousands of jobs in the Oil sector and the supply chain because of the illegal 75% tax. Destroying the British economy.

Papadox

@Robert Peffers 25/11/15 3:56pm

Robert was there not a daily briefing of the “selected” hacks in Westminster?

That doesn’t include the “secutity services” web of constant lies and made up stories for smear or encouragement to the “establishments” advantage and ” help” form the populace mindset.

The privi council is another snake pit? You don’t get to many of them singing off tune! They either all seem to sing from HM songbook or keep stume? NO MATTER THEIR POLITICS. Are they on a promise or a threat, or is it both? OMERTÀ

Petra

@ Robert Peffers says at 3:56 pm ”I often feel the MSM act together and suspect they are fed stories from the Establishment who in turn get them from the so called security services. Looking at their track record of such cases as Willie McRae and other suspicious deaths of those the Establishment saw as their enemies gives cause for worry.”

Spot on Robert. GCHQ will be scrutinising every SNP politician’s background looking for a nugget of scandal but hoping to find mother lode. No doubt keeping a beady eye on us too …. ‘Ooooh .. scary ….’

link to youtube.com

For Natalie McGarry ……

link to youtube.com

link to gov.uk

Ken500

Crowdfunder to sue the Record for damages. Put Foote and Clegg in the Dock for the VOW and the complete slanderous lies.

Ken500

That WFI should be investigated someone with an axe to grind has leaked this nonsense to the Press.

Blair Paterson

I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past I mean they lied about N.S. And French gate reported it without any proof ,now Nicola is a lawyer but to me it was an open and shut case and I could blog all night about other cases ? But I have said before the media are doing it because they are getting of with it without any challenge so I have to ask what’s going on?.

Ken500

WFI were not conducting their business according to the usual Rules of Association. Two People are required to hold authority over accounts.

Clootie

The Daily Record prefers the role of leading the lynch mob to that of investigative journalism.

The media have every duty to investigate such stories. However it should be done in a balanced and accurate way.

Quite a contrast to the missing Labour Party funds as the Rev pointed out.

Colin

Even in the CommonSpace article it says “apparent” discrepencies….so no-one is saying is def missing. But what can you say about the Branch Office’s mouthpiece and its “stories” sic

And any word on the “apparent” £10,000 missing form a certain Labour branch in Edinburgh that Miss( I let Jackie Baillie be my mouthpicece) Dugdale is affiliated to?

David McDowell

Blair – the SNP should do what I suggest above:

Lure all the MSM liars in with fake details of an SNP MP involved in “shady dealings” – then shaft them all good style with defamation suits.

Bye bye fabricated witch hunts against SNP MPs.
From then on they’d have to come up with hard proof of any accusations they make against SNP MPs.

Proud Cybernat

There’s little point in suing the Idiot CorpMedia. They have in-house lawyers that they always run contentious stories by. These lawyers will tell them when their *ahem* stories are flying too close to the wind. But sometimes the editor will just run a contentious story anyway–it’s a measured risk. Over and above which, the bigger names in the Idiot Press have contingency funds for any such lawsuit that might come their way. Suing them will have little effect. We just have to make sure, via Social Media, that we expose their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs. It’s the only sure way of beating them.

David McDowell

Proud Cybernat –
“Suing them will have little effect.”

I disagree. It would have the very worthwhile effect of proving to the Scottish public that the MSM are deliberately fabricating stories to bring down SNP politicians.

call me dave

Meanwhile not in the Autumn Statement but announced on stock market this afternoon says Big Brian & Douglas Fraser.

Peterhead carbon capture project money withdrawn!

Another wound to hobble Scotland.

SNP x 2 at election.

Robert Peffers

@Ian Brotherhood says: 25 November, 2015 at 1:47 pm:

“You’re a historian, right?”

Only so far as it affects Scotland and mainly Scottish politics.

[BTW: This is my fourth attempt to answer as my posts keep disappearing.]

“You know that in all societies, anywhere, at any given time, some subjects are taboo.”

Actually I don’t. I know that all societies would like to make things they wish swept under the mat to be taboo but that such taboos have held back society many, many years.

Without such taboos we would not have had such abuse scandals as Jimmie Savile or Rolf Harris and many, many innocent young lives would have NOT been destroyed.

I>”Right now, the events of 9/11 are taboo in ‘Western’ society.”

No they are not. In fact the event is quite often shoved up people’s noses in order to further some, or other, political view.

“Does that entitle you to lash out (as you did in the previous thread) at people who go to the trouble of doing their own research?”

Yes it does – and it gives YOU the same entitlement to lash out back at me if you so choose. To hell with taboos – get it off your chest it you want to for that is how to defeat taboos.

“Thirty years ago, anyone in the independence movement who brought up the ‘alleged’ McCrone Report was dismissed with the same angry mockery you are demonstrating””

Yes I know – for I was one of them. Thing was we were not pushing a conspiracy theory with no evidence we knew the truth.

The McCrone report was written in 1974. by Professor Gavin McCrone. The eighteen-page report focused on the likely effects of North Sea oil revenue on the economic viability of an independent Scotland.

In the February 1947 general election the SNP recorded 30% of the Scottish vote, (then our best ever result). We in the SNP actually knew the true facts and tried to get then across to the electorate. Remember the line, “It’s Scotland’s Oil”.

The report was itself classified as, ‘secret’, and successive UK Governments kept it secret but we still knew the truth. The report then came to light in 2005 when the SNP eventually obtained several UK Government papers, under the Freedom of Information Act but only after the full provisions of the Act came into force on 1 January 2005. So why the hell do you think the SNP were demanding those particular Freedom of Information reports?

galamcennalath

Proud Cybernat says:

“We just have to make sure, via Social Media, that we expose their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs. It’s the only sure way of beating them.”

I agree.

Making their name synonymous with inaccuracy and invention will reduce sales. It’s not so much a bias issue, as one of readers not being able to believe what they print.

When they cease to be viable, they will fold.

Macart

@Petra 4.22

Technically and by their lights they have delivered on the vow. It only ever promised three things. The Scottish parliaments permanence, unspecified ‘significant’ devolved powers and that a no vote would deliver faster safer change, end of.

But then that’s not what the Scottish electorate were led to believe either by a certain Mr Broon or the massed ranks of the media. Devo Max, near federalism and in Mr Camerons case the quote was that ‘nothing in terms of devolution was off the table’. Endless speculation throughout the press and the broadcast media using the buzz words of the narrative ‘devo max’ were endlessly fed to the electorate in the run up to the vote and again who knew that Westminster’s idea of maximum devolution was not that expected by the public?

No one in BT/HMGs ranks bothered to define just what their maximum super duper package entailed. So the public filled in the blanks and were presented with some tax collecting responsibilities and control over road signage. (woo hoo)

The reality has proven to be a constitutional and fiscal car crash topping off a year of racist abuse, parliamentary neglect, austerity ideology, closures, job losses and the continuation of project fear.

Not quite the near federal solution and powerhouse parliament as billed. The media and Labour especially, are shaking in their boots at the thought of the other boot dropping squarely on their heads.

They should, because its going to and they have earned it.

Capella

Newly elevated Laura Keunssberg and her economic editor London pundits discuss the Autumn Statement.
Dear Laura credits the kyboshing of Osborne’s Tax Credit cuts to everyone except the SNP. So Labour voted against them after all.

“Big victory for the House of Lords, for the Labour Party and for some Tory backbenchers of course, including Boris Johnston.”
link to bbc.co.uk

Thepnr

@call me dave

Yes I spotted the so called “ring-fenced” carbon capture project was to be scrapped. Announcement was made through the London Stock Exchange .

Main effect other than the companies competing for the work is that the UK will NOT be able to meet it’s carbon emissions targets as this was an essential element in the plans.

http://www.edie.net/news/6/DECC-axes–1bn-Carbon-Capture—Storage-fund-CCS/

schrodingers cat

ot
in reply to angus Robertson at pmqs about the Russian jet shot down

Cameron says, we don’t know what happened but turkey is allowed to protect itself…..

uk increasingly seen as the bad guys defending the indefencable
#istandwithrussia now trending

Proud Cybernat

@ David McDowell

“I disagree. It would have the very worthwhile effect of proving to the Scottish public that the MSM are deliberately fabricating stories to bring down SNP politicians.”

Who’s going to tell the public about any SNP lawsuit? The CorpMedia?

Sinky

Ian Murray says repeal of Tax credit cuts down to Labour.

Labour’s last MP from Scotland abstained on 20th July rather than vote against the latest round of Tory welfare cuts.

Ian Murray’s “green” credentials are also in tatters as he failed to vote on 14th July against George Osborne’s Climate Change Levy cuts to the Renewables sector which disproportionally hits Scottish businesses.

During the election campaign Ian Murray made a big thing about his “anti-Trident” stance – but it turns out he’s never voted on that either.

Ian Murray and his colleagues made matters worse when they didn’t even bother to turn up for the final day’s debate on the Finance Bill thus allowing the SNP to occupy the Labour benches are present themselves as the real Opposition Party.

Voters who did not back the Tories at the general election deserve better than Labour’s refusal to oppose the Budget, the SNP said before staging a takeover of the Opposition frontbench on 21 July.

muttley79

@Blair Paterson

I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past I mean they lied about N.S. And French gate reported it without any proof ,now Nicola is a lawyer but to me it was an open and shut case and I could blog all night about other cases ? But I have said before the media are doing it because they are getting of with it without any challenge so I have to ask what’s going on?.

The SNP would not get anything else done if they tried to correct every story that was nonsense/wrong, or even dodgy in the MSM! They are there to get elected, govern competently and campaign for independence for Scotland. Why on earth would and should the SNP take newspapers to court over bullshit stories, when the MSM are already losing, and have alienated so many customers in Scotland? I would rather the SNP concentrate on getting elected and advancing Scottish self government, than complain constantly about the corporate media. What would the point be anyway? Do you think the likes of Cochrane, Carroll, Torrance, Clegg, Martin, Farquarson, Massie et al would change their modus operandi because the SNP complained about them? No chance of that, in fact they would be delighted.

Proud Cybernat

@ Macart

“No one in BT/HMGs ranks bothered to define just what their maximum super duper package entailed.”

The State Broadcaster had a good crack at defining Devo-Max just before IndyRef#1. See here: (from 7 min 04s):

‘The Vow: A Promise Broken’

link to tinyurl.com

davidb

Can I say a word on the Natalie saga?

Yet again much space has been given to a discussion about a media story. No one has been charged. There is no case to answer. Our tuppence worth is just idle gossip. If there ever becomes a case to answer then we can all jump in. But for now it is premature and we are letting the biased media drive our agenda.

Fu#k them. Liars all.

My personal experience is that prior to May I was in Parkhead and wanted a Natalie badge. I loath(ed) Curran with such a passion. The election office had no badges left, so I handed over a tenner as a donation, telling them I hated that witch. They insisted on giving me a receipt. I told them I did not want one. They insisted.

That smacks of a culture of probity. I do not believe Ms McGarry will have done anything wrong. Until there is a case to answer however, its best we just forget about it.

call me dave

@Sinky

Ian Murray. Aye I heard him on the tax credits, all down to the labour and their campaign in Scotland.

Can lie without blinking, or blushing. That’s yer news, as they say on radio shortbread.

Kenny

Just as well Gordon and Sarah Brown’s “charity” is wisely spending all amassed donations.

If they weren’t, I don’t how I could live with the knowledge…

call me dave

A law unto ourselves: 🙂

link to archive.is

Andrew McLean

Daily Record Headline Tomorrow

LABOUR STOP TORRY CUTS

Jubilant crowds lined the street of north Britain when our glorious MP traveled back from the center of the universe Westminster, where he had roundly demolished in scintillating debate the leader of the opposition Osborn and made him abolish Tax cuts!

500 billion more money available now glorious labour under the guiding hand of our benevolent leader Dugdale Smash the SNP.

Dugdale who got 18 holes in one the first time she played golf, who cured cancer with her touch, who invented the middle shed hair piece now worn by all women on the planet. Calls on all North Britain’s to praise the Party and Ingsoc!

Oh glorious Labour we hold you close to our bossism, Dear Leader Dugdale! Benevolent benefactor! all hail the glorious party!

link to youtube.com

REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,

asklair

When you go to court it takes money and a big chunk out of your life. I got shafted by my local planning department and I nearly took them to court. That would of taken much time and money I didn’t have, instead I battered in more applications and a heck of their time. I got a result without expensive legal costs.
So what I am trying to say is the more distortion of truth by the MSM the more we can expose them for what they are to our gain without feeding the loaded legal system. Yes it does get you down but once you expose there lies to the 5% they are with you all the way. Who said it was going to be easy.

Thepnr

@muttley79

“Why on earth would and should the SNP take newspapers to court over bullshit stories”

Well, I think Blair Paterson has a valid point, possibly a successful court challenge “over bullshit stories” may act as a deterrent to the continual repeat of them.

I think Rev Stu made the point previously when a simple solicitors letter from him to the Scotsman brought about a compensation payment and an apology in the paper, as small as it was it was still a victory over bullshit.

Macart

@Proud Cybernat

Yep, the BBC were cheerleaders in the deception and that won’t be forgotten any time soon.

bugsbunny

Andrew McLean@2.49,

As we all know Wikipedia can be edited by anyone with a login account. Guess what? It was last modified yesterday, 24th November 2015 at 9.53pm.

So if not true, someone is deliberatly stirring the shite. I wonder who? mmm.

Shower of Unionist bastards.

Stephen.

Ken500

The monies are all there. The finances add up. Someone is making up this nonsense,

In goings £49,816 – 23p

LESS

£28,500
+. 8,700
= £37,200

£2500
+ 2900
+. 910
+ 3800
= £10,110

£4,000 + £8,000 = £12,000

£37,200 + £10,110 = £47.310 + £4,000 carried down + £8,000 in reserve. There is more money in the Accounts. It is over budget?

Gary45%

Grousebeater@11.21am.
Spot on regarding monies mysteriously appearing into the SNPs coffers.
The main thing is, we all know what to expect on a daily basis.
Heck we normally correctly guess what the establishments
SNP bad headlines will be.
I am genuinely surprised that the SNP have not been linked to ISIL, “seriously”
“The UK establishment are really to thick for their own good.”
A wee message for the establishment and their trolls,
Keep making an ar*e of yourselves, it gives us good entertainment, certainly better than the EBC, but then again watching a gate swinging is more entertaining than that.

Onwards

Ken500 says:
25 November, 2015 at 4:56 pm
That WFI should be investigated someone with an axe to grind has leaked this nonsense to the Press.

The minute it went to the police the story would be public.
What’s annoying is that it even got to this point.

I have no idea what happened, but I bet I can guess.
McGarry will have spent some of the money without keeping accurate records of every transaction including some cash in hand deals. As one of the founders of WFI she will expect to be TRUSTED that she isn’t spending it personally on champagne and spa breaks.

Maybe there has been a bit of petty bitchiness and jealousy amongst other members of Women for Independence. Maybe internal politics, maybe who got picked for SNP seats. It doesn’t matter.
It makes absolutely NO sense that this wasn’t sorted out months ago – without getting to the point where it could cause damage to the SNP and the independence cause they all apparently believe in.

Thepnr

@Andrew McLean

Typical of SLab, promise four tenants but deliver only three. Tut.

Bob Mack

At least we know where Osborne got the money for the tax credit relief. Scotlands budget is being cut in real terms by a similar amount.

Thepnr

Tenets not tenants. LOL

All the tenants have been evicted as a result of having their housing benefit cut.

Wuffing Dug

The UK government is systematically and deliberately compromising north Sea infrastructure to hopefully prevent further investment should we become independent.

Peterhead CCS now not going ahead.
Cancelled near bid submittal stage.

Bastirts.

But at the end of the day, you can’t ship the most important assets away or shut them down.

Let’s make those assets work for us and not them. Fuck them – SNP / SNP.

Tick tock.

Capella

The SNP wouldn’t have to go to court over every mad newspaper scandal. Just pick one good one.

Scot Finlayson

@Sinky

The Red Tory Turd Ian Murray will not be the only one seeking to take undeserved credit for the humiliating U turn from Osborne on tax credits from Nicola and the SNP.

…victory has 100 fathers and defeat is an orphan….

Wuffing Dug

Seriously,

Let’s all get together and go after the record and kezia dugdale.

Let’s just get it done.

Stigmatise the record at every opportunity. Make it a leper in Scotland.

ArtyHetty

So the tax credits cuts are not going to be implemented? Hmm, wonder what that was all about.

What these gits in ukok do is as usual pretend to really crack the whip and everyone goes wtf they can’t do that, so they backtrack, a bit so everyone sighs a cry of relief. Oh these millionaires in parliament are not that bad after all, phew! I knew a well off family a few years ago who had a very good accountant and received tax credits, it’s not just the working poor who would have lost out.

What of the mention of taking instead from Housing benefit?

call me dave

Strong words from Swinney re: Peterhead carbon capture £1bN competition money now cancelled.

Disgraceful & ‘sneaky’ how it was announced. LOL John… ‘sneaky’ Well he’s a mild mannered man… 🙂

He was on the radio shortbread but maybe his left eyebrow bristled as it raised a fraction.

Ken500

There is no money missing from the accounts at all. In fact it looks like it over. If money was spent after the accounts were done? (April? Or at the beginning of the year)

These ‘Reports’ are total nonsense. A disgrace, ill researched ‘Reporters’ that can’t add up.

Foonurt

Twaw doon, fur the meenit, in jist ower six months. Whaus next?

Whit’s yoan psychology, goat tae say fur it. Baith female SNP MPs, in baith accused ah pauchlin/pruchin money.

Roall oan Scoattish Independence.

Robert Peffers

@Papadox says: 25 November, 2015 at 4:46 pm:

“Robert was there not a daily briefing of the “selected” hacks in Westminster? “

Yes, Papadox, there are press briefings, but I base my thoughts on the fact that some organisation, with the time and resources to do so, must be there in order to investigate and get the information that someone is vulnerable to by got at. Things like hacked phones, computers and so on.

“The privi council is another snake pit? You don’t get to many of them singing off tune!”

Again the Privi lot includes such as Nicola Sturgeon.

I worked as a civilian in the MOD, (Admiralty), at the leading edge of not only electronics but also Nuclear and other forms of Radiation, Biological and Chemical weapons detection. I thus had to have top security screening to visit top security establishments.

I have thus been to just about all top secret scientific and electronic establishments and have a bit of knowledge of how certain parts of the security services work, (and it is not pretty).

Ken500

The £4,000 carried down could be included in the reserves, £8,000

If the figures being quoted are correct it means the accounts are over.

Unless money has been spent after the accounts were made up.

The figures don’t add up.

Thepnr

For anyone just reading after work and have not had the time to read all the posts, it’s well worth reading Scott Minto’s posts at 12:02 and 12:12 regarding how the numbers so far reported appear to stack up.

Strange now, that this has apparently gone all quiet rather than the scandal of the year hoped for in certain quarters? Certainly it hasn’t followed the pattern of the previous “scandal” as reported in BUM.

Foonurt

Izit, anithurr actress thit wiz ah nurse, in ah fuckin nurse thit wiz an actress. Bit wisnae.

Ian Brotherhood

@Robert Peffers (5.22) –

Thanks for the reply. Appreciated.

For what it’s worth, I don’t feel that I have anything to get off my chest, and stand by what I wrote.

In any event, let’s just agree to disagree.

john king

call me dave
“Strong words from Swinney re: Peterhead carbon capture £1bN competition money now cancelled.”

That I predicted in October 2011 when Cameron removed the investment in Longannet power stations research into CC the two remaining contenders were Peterhead and Drax power station in North Yorkshire, I always said Drax would win.

I made the point that Cameron would rather lose Scotland than set us loose with a technology which would have made Scotland the world leader in carbon capture, which would have had the capacity to make Scotland an immensely wealthy country, the prediction was that a country with the capacity to take ALL of Europes carbon would have made Scotland a minimum of £10.00 per cubic metre for taking and injecting the carbon into the spent wells in the north sea, which in turn would have dwarfed the income from the oil itself,

Cameron wasn’t having that!

Fran

@ Foonurt

The Express did have a go at the MP from Galloway with the trading standards but made a pure mess o it, there was nae case to answer.

We’ve had the London Mansion scandal and wee Mharies tweets when she was at school.

Without a doubt they will go through all our MPs and the ultimate prise will be ane o oor big guns.

Ruby

Ken500 says:
25 November, 2015 at 6:51 pm
The £4,000 carried down could be included in the reserves, £8,000

Ruby replies

I much prefer the term carried forward. Is carried down now more common than carried forward?

What are the reserves in everyday language?

Robert Peffers

@Blair Paterson says: 25 November, 2015 at 4:59 pm:

“I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past? …

Perhaps I can enlighten you, Blair. Just look at the way voting intention statistics are slowly climbing in favour of the SNP. They have never had so many card carrying members nor such a wide base of support.

All of which indicates they must be doing something right but they really are not doing anything so different from what they have always done. So perhaps we must look elsewhere for answers – but where?

I believe the answer is not so much what the SNP are doing but what their opponents may, or may not be doing. Perhaps even a combination of the two.

Napoleon, one of the great strategists, once said, “Never interrupt your opponents when they are making bad mistakes”. So if the SNP are not doing much that differs from what they did before. What may their opponents be doing wrong that is turning voters against them?

Now do you get why they are not doing anything about them? The more dirty tricks the Unionists pull, the more people see them as the enemy and not the Better Together friends they claimed to be.

The MSM are losing their customers in spades and the tide is flowing in the right direction so, like the old football phrase beloved of managers, “Never change a winning team, and never change a winning strategy”.

Just think about it – if the YES movement becomes as bad as the opposition then the voters will see all parties as, “Being all the same”. Just see how the WFI have come under suspicion and probably lost support over this last episode? Mind you it could all reverse very quickly if someone was actually found guilty.

galamcennalath

ArtyHetty says:
at 2:23 pm
“noticed ‘Altered state, part 3? now showing over at Wee Ginger Dug, I am gonna watch it later.”

Got round to watching it. A very depressing picture is painted, especially by Bateman. Sheesh, I don’t want to wait decades! Scotland will be f*cked in decades of WM colonial / no mandate rule.

Paul Cavanagh made a very good point – next phase is to remove Unionist politics and politicians from Scotland. Put the politics of Scotland on a different course and make Unionism irrelevant. Yes, 2006/2007, we need to do that.

My own view is that we need DevoMuchMore to be recognised as a dead duck then the choice is DevoFA or Indy. Add cuts, austerity, Trident, wars, WM mismanagement, then converts will be made and a clear majority will want Indy.

call me dave

@john king

I agree, they were against it then so there was no chance now.

They are cutting off all initiatives in Scotland as fast as they can and unless we are successful in the next round of elections they might just pip us at the post!

SNP x 2

David McDowell

Proud Cybernat at 5:36pm

Who’s going to tell the public about “their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs”?

People on twitter?

You can “expose” them using social media but it won’t stop it.

To stop it you make sure you have a watertight case, lure them into defaming someone, then sue them.

After that they can’t just make stuff up because it might be another defamation trap.

liz

Wonder if there is any way the SG could buy Longannet as it is closing so could they get it for a nominal fee?

It has been said, work and act as if you are already independent, and the rest will follow.

Then try to get co-operation from other countries to continue with CC.

Andrew McLean

Thepnr 6:12

dam you there are four tenants, how many do you see you reactionary dog! Four tenants room 101 for you, to much victory gin has addled your love of the party!

Dr Jim

I have been out shopping all day but I thought I’d share a wee experiment off the cuff survey with you, completely non scientific I should add

I decided to engage in conversation every shop assistant and as many passing customers as I could, and the question I asked in as comedic and jovial way I could was:

Do you get in in time for John McKay

Thepnr

Has the bullshit emanating from the BUM been nipped at the bud?

crazycat

@ Andrew McLean

Seeing as you’re about – re your post at 2.49 and the Tory councillor. It’s true.

Not something I could manage, but clearly they can.

Thepnr

@Andrew McLean

LOL loved the first three, just desperate to know the fourth 🙂

Macart

@John King

Yep, remember that. Huhn wasn’t it?

Wasn’t there supposedly some stupid re-tender process on the CC front, which frankly had bollox written all over it? Either way, the writing was on the wall for CC in Scotland. Far as HMG was concerned it was a twofer. Easy cut to make and stick one in the SGs eye and flagship renewables policy at the same time.

frogesque

@ liz 7.36

Or, the crowdfunder to end all crowdfunders, WoS Power!

john king

Macart says
“Yep, remember that. Huhn wasn’t it?”

Correct, he said the pipe would be too long!
But apparently its not as far from North Yorkshire! Who knew?
link to bbc.co.uk

Andrew McLean

Thepnr
You reactionary dog you hater of our glorious leader dugdale you will learn the four tenants REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,

There are four tenants you lover of our enemy SNP! You have read the forbidden little blue book!
There is no escape for you! Resistance to the party is futile you will love the party the party is all ! Now how many do you see ! How many!

Dr Jim

Out shopping all day so I decided to do a non scientific survey amongst shop workers and customers in a friendly Christmassy kind of way, and the questions I asked were

Q1 Do you get home in time for John McKay news
Q2 Do you like that Jackie Bird on Reporting Scotland

To Question 1 of about the twenty five or so folk I spoke to
not one single person even knew who John McKay was or even watched Scotland tonight
Strangely enough some men knew who Raman Bardwaj was, for those who don’t that’s the sports guy

Q2 Of the same amount of people five women knew Jackie Bird because she’s the one who does the New Year show but don’t watch Reporting Scotland
Two men admitted to knowing who she was but that was because she used to be a bit of a looker when she was young

Now I don’t know really what this means but I do know what it doesn’t mean
The SNP Baad message, whether anybody thinks it’s working or not, what it’s not is being listened to on Reporting Scotland and Scotland Tonight by working people, they’re too busy and don’t care

So the Telly media will know this too, which leads me to think they are particularly targeting older folk who they know to be definite voters and with respect to us oldies but many in our age group are more gullible

Tomorrow maybe a pie eating survey on Jackie Baillie, I’ll start with Greggs and Aulds

john king

Andrew McLean
” REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,”

HAHAHA
link to youtube.com

X_Sticks

Macart says:

“The Scottish parliaments permanence”

I believe that was one of the reasons that the lords kicked the bill into touch. They were worried it would undermine the sovereignty of parliament. There was a brief mention of it somewhere on the radio, but never mentioned again. I think Lang may have been the one who brought it up, but I can’t find anything to back it up.

@call me dave

“radio shortbread” Like that. Using it 😀

It looks like the Natalie thing has been dropped rather sharply. Perhaps it’ll turn out to be fluff.

John King nails the fact that WM has crippled carbon capture and renewables industries where Scotland could have become the world leader. They don’t want any success here. They don’t want any competition. Better to lose a potential industry than for Scotland have a lead.

Sinky

Why did Labour MP Marie Rimmer’s Glasgow Court appearance to-day not make BBC TV news (didn’t see STV news) particularly as she hasn’t been asked to resign the Labour whip and was recently appointed to the UK Justice and Human Rights Committee?

link to bbc.co.uk

More double standards by Scotland’s media

Andrew McLean

Dr Jim
My money was on “I don’t watch Dr Who” ?

Thepnr

@Andrew McLean

I have been blind, I see four. There always were four, I did not look.

Andrew McLean

Crazycat

No comment! Nuts in vice due to last comment on attractiveness of opposition leaders!
Ouch

HandandShrimp

Dr Jim

I think the fact that so few people knew who Kezia was in the recent poll indicates that most people do not watch or take in political news. Let’s face it, watching the news is akin to sticking your arm in a wood chipper. It isn’t something that you would do voluntarily.

Andrew McLean

Thepnr
Their do you not feel the love of the party! Isn’t it fantastic isn’t Our Glorious Dugdale just wonderful
Now drink your victory gin, you have been saved, just Wright down all the names you remember who have read the banned little blue book and you can go home!

Dorothy Devine

Sinky , it was mentioned by JOHN MACKAY at the tail end of the “news” on STV – resigning anything like the whip, the Justice committee or expenses.

One rule for …….the BUMS.

john king

Dr Jim
“watching the news is akin to sticking your arm in a wood chipper. It isn’t something that you would do voluntarily.”

So why do WE do it to ourselves?
#keep the faith

call me dave

@X_Sticks

@call me dave

“radio shortbread” Like that. Using it 😀
—————————————————————
You’ll be on the third bite then as I’ve pinched the biscuit from somebody who coined it a couple of threads ago! 🙂

But it nails it don’t you think!

Oh well back to the footie!

Gerry

Wuffing Dug says:
25 November, 2015 at 6:25 pm
Seriously,
Let’s all get together and go after the record and kezia dugdale.
Let’s just get it done.
Stigmatise the record at every opportunity. Make it a leper in Scotland.

——————

Count me in. But we need to add the good old conservatives.
Here’s a fresh one they laid today, surely is actionable. He doesn’t talk generally about the SNP but names NS and JS. The article appears in the telegraph but more importantly on the scottish conservatives site.

.
From link to scottishconservatives.com

“Given these latest figures, Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney should show they are prepared to move on by apologising for what was a deliberate and conscious decision to deceive people.”
Murdo Fraser, the Scottish Tory finance spokesman.

john king

Or handandshrimp even. 🙂

Tam Jardine

David McDowell

I think this it is just a matter of time before one of the SNP targets steps forward with a watertight case and tears one of these papers a new one. I can’t wait. When Natalie is exonerated (as I feel she surely will be) I’d happily punt £50 towards an action to bring those in the Record or whatever to book.

I am sure there will be others who feel likewise.

In fact, if such a crowd-fund existed to create a fighting fund for future actions of this sort I would happily throw something in. Christ, it would be good to have 10K, 20K or whatever sitting there ready to take one of these titles down a peg or two.

No idea how much these things cost but the Carmichael case is the way forward. Time to get off the back foot.

liz

Re Longannet- I love the idea… although my very basic understanding is that the excessive tarrifs the plant faces for being so far from london make it extremely expensive to connect to the grid.

If that is the case then I would like to see some creative thinking from the Scottish government… I understand there was a proposal for CCS for the plant but funding was cancelled by you-know-who. We are obviously moving away from this type of power station but the site is pretty huge and I can’t believe the way forward is simply to de-industrialise.

Gary45%

So the carbon capture programme, has been killed off in Scotland.
There we have it Scotland, Ripped Off from the English and officially turned into a nuclear dumping ground thanks to the English.
I am not being racist, just stating a FACT.
They had the chance to FU*K the Tories, by voting labour in the GE.
But under no circumstances would accept an alliance with the SNP.
The bald scouse TWAT from UKIP says the Scots always take, take, take.
I think he means his fellow tossers.
As already posted lets get Longannet and Peterhead,but with the help of the Russians.
We are treated like shit from the establishment, so lets do a deal with Putin.

K1

Bearing in mind the meaning of ‘flogging a dead horse’.

Let’s remind ourselves of Kezia Dugdale on the 5th November berating Nicola at FMQ’s re tax credits. Her whining insistence that the FM should outline their fiscal response to Osbourne’s tax credit cuts.

The FM consistently replying that ‘we will wait and see’ as these cuts had not as yet been announced and that the SNP where in fact pushing for Osbourne to drop these planned cuts, and also reprimanding Kezia’s Labour for their abstentions and support of the cuts, whilst stating the obvious: that Labour should be fighting against the Tories with the SNP instead of indulging their tribal hatred.

GIRFUY Labour party. They must be greetin’ their eyes oot, having just had their stick taken away by Osbourne’s U turn of Tax credit cuts.

link to youtube.com

Oh…and it’s worth a rewatch just for Nicola’s slap down of ‘Baroness Goldie’. Quality comeback on stilts!

Remember SNP/SNP. These idiots cannot be allowed to regain any kind of foothold within Scotland. Ever. Again.