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Daily Record Maths For Beginners

Posted on November 25, 2015 by

We tweeted this yesterday:

record30

Increasingly, the line between satire of the Scottish media and reality is non-existent.

The Record has pushed the “£30,000” figure relentlessly.

record30k

30k

30k4

But as we already know the paper isn’t too great with numbers, it seemed worth taking a closer look at the figures. The Record’s only “source” is that it claims the missing money is “believed to be in the region of £30,000”.

30k1

We’re not told WHO supposedly believes this. But the paper goes on to elaborate:

30k2

Some of those figures are verifiable. The Electoral Commission’s recently-improved website lets us easily check the £24,605 figure, for example, and also where it went, revealing that the bulk paid for leaflets and promotional material, with around £7400 also going to staff. We can also check WFI’s fundraising, where we find that its three campaigns raised a total of £49,599 after Indiegogo’s 4% commission is deducted.

Alert readers will be ahead of us by this point.

TOTAL FUNDRAISING: £49,599 (verified)

REFERENDUM SPENDING: £24,605 (verified)
EARLIER SPENDING: £8,700 (according to Daily Record)
TOTAL ACCOUNTED-FOR SPENDING: £33,305

MAXIMUM SUM UNACCOUNTED FOR: £16,294

In other words, even if WFI hadn’t officially spent a single penny since the referendum – which seems highly implausible – and even if the disputed PayPal account has absolutely nothing left in it (which not even an unnamed “source” has claimed), then the Record, by its own figures, has almost DOUBLED the amount of money that’s allegedly gone missing and screamed it across a giant banner headline.

(We severely doubt WFI has made £14,000 by “selling merchandise”. Its website offers only a couple of small items, extremely well-hidden, at prices which must struggle to make any profit at all. All of its fundraisers struggled to just barely make their targets, so we also doubt that it could have gathered another £14K in ad-hoc donations. Our experience is that donations outside of fundraisers are minimal.)

We haven’t a clue if there’s been any wrongdoing in WFI’s accounts or not, or who’s responsible for it if there has. But what we can see is that Scotland’s media appears to be doing its usual job of demented, exaggerated overkill. Not according to us, but according to itself.

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    362 to “Daily Record Maths For Beginners”

    1. bugsbunny says:

      As the old Record Mantra put it, “The Daily Record, you can’t just put it down”. I wish we could do the same for the idiots that buy that rag.

      Stephen.

    2. Iain says:

      Shock,horror, you don’t mean Scotland’s champion has been lying!

    3. Grouse Beater says:

      Next step is for our secret police to place a few thousand pounds in the SNP’s bank account and then leak that it came from some terrorist group, or other. That’s what they did under Thatcher’s watch to undermine the integrity of the miner’s leader.

      It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.

    4. scott says:

      David Clegg is he not the one on Scotland 2015 with SNP bad Shelley Jofre last night I was really disgusted I know you say I should not watch that crap program but I like to know what the enemy are up to as for the Record it should be cut up in squares that is all it is fit for.know what I mean.

    5. bugsbunny says:

      If I wiped my arse with the Daily Record, I wouldn’t trust it to tell me when I needed to stop wiping. That’s what I think of that rag. You can’t trust it, even when your wiping keech with it. Who buys it? Die hard Labour supporters, Orangemen, Drunks, Village Idiots, a lot of old folks that voted NO. Wow. What a demographic for Scotland’s champion. It’s offices have a lot in common with the Reichstag. “Cough, cough”.

      Stephen.

    6. Neil Cook says:

      I blame Santa or the Tooth Fairy, pair of ruthless characters and prevalent at this time of year- Ho Ho Ho

    7. Bob Mack says:

      Did Kezia do the calculations for the Record ?

      That means the WFI will have twice the money they can’t find, when they find it.

    8. Reider O'Doom says:

      Even many of the folk who buy/read the Record don’t swallow their made-up stories any more.

      Once you been caught out lying (repeatedly) you’re unlikely to be believed in future.

      My local newsagent tried to give me a free Sunday Mail at the weekend. I thanked him, but informed him we had plenty of toilet paper at hame already.

    9. heedtracker says:

      Equal ferocious red tory unionist crew use different smear techniques

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/24/snp-mp-missing-donations-claim-withdraws

      “The SNP MP at the centre of allegations that tens of thousands of pounds in donations may be missing from the pro-independence campaign group she helped to set up has withdrawn from the party whip but insists she is determined to clear her name.”

      “Tens of thousands” actually sounds even more. Good old rancid The Graun, award winning UKOK savaging of Scottish democracy. All’s fair in UK democracy.

    10. Ruby says:

      Could it be that WFI have a ‘Alex Bell’ type member?

      What is Kate Higgins doing these days?

    11. Ruby says:

      The Herald seem to have gone into overdrive with this story and the weird thing is they keep closing the comments.

    12. scav says:

      @bugsbunny

      If I wiped my arse with the Daily Record, I wouldn’t trust it to tell me when I needed to stop wiping.

      Well no, it would be impossible to tell. There would be no point where the paper came away not smeared in shite.

    13. Achnababan says:

      My 82 year old mother buys the DR for the crossword…. I am deeply ashamed but what can I do brothers and sisters?

    14. bugsbunny says:

      I informed a Unionist neighbour who doesn’t read the record, when he asked me what wfi was, I told him it was a scandinavian furniture shop that took over from mfi ans was responsible for “cabinet” government. Job done. He believed me. And he doesn’t read the record.

      Stephen.

    15. galamcennalath says:

      The CorpMedia are an utter disgrace, and the Record seems the worst.

      Surely the time for front page spreads naming names is when someone has been charged with a crime?

      Report that a crime might have taken place, yes. Report when a crime is known to have occurred, yes.

      However, associating individuals when there is only evidence that a crime might have been committed!? That is well and truly jumping the gun. That has all sorts of implications for the actual course of justice and the rights of individuals.

      We all know it’s politically motivated smearing and propaganda, crime or no crime.

      Justice is double edged and I would love to think both Thomson and Mcgarry get an opportunity to sue the arse off various media outlets for defamation, if/when their names are cleared.

    16. ClanDonald says:

      Doesn’t paypal take a fee too?

    17. Ruby says:

      scav says:
      25 November, 2015 at 11:40 am

      Well no, it would be impossible to tell. There would be no point where the paper came away not smeared in shite.

      Ruby replies

      Is your avatar a picture of a piece of smear free quality toilet paper? 😀

      Velvet-Love your Bum?

    18. Kevin says:

      “I only buy it for the crossword”… the Painter & Decorator said about the DR, when I saw him reading The National and engaged him re quality publications. I was irritated that he buys it at all, but at least he’s actually reading The National.

      I found myself in a Celtic fan forum, couple of nights ago, and it appears that Celtic fans profoundly hate it and regard it as utterly dodgy. No surprise as they – the DR – continue to work the ‘Rangers’ myth.
      Also noticed the DR sales figures are teetering on slightly-over 200k (Jan ’15) – let’s drive it off the shelf completely.

    19. annie says:

      @Ruby – Kate Higgins is working for Nicola Sturgeon, sometimes tweets, so presume she is something to do with communications.

    20. scott says:

      Jackie Baillie Natalie McGarry should stand down I wonder if she says the same about this one.
      Labour MP on assault charge joins Justice Committee come on JB call for her to step down,thought not

    21. donald anderson says:

      As I sat in my doctur’s surgery yesterday I tried to avoid eye contact with a daftie sitting next to me.He was intent in having a conversation with me aboot his chips left in the oven. The wumman sitting on his other side showed him her Daily Redcoat headlines, screaming about the SNP’s missing £30,000. “What happened to it?” He asked. “Did the English get it?”

      Maybe he wisnae as daft as he looked. I planted my National on the empty seat on my other side. A young lassie occupied the seat then placed the National oan the flerr, without even looking at it. How did the SNP win Maryhill I wondered, when my name was called?

    22. Tony Little says:

      @Ruby

      “The Herald seem to have gone into overdrive with this story and the weird thing is they keep closing the comments.”

      Probably wise. The BTL comments have been getting more extreme by pro-unionists and they might well be considering their “reputation ” (I know!) should this all blow over and Nathalie is found completely innocent.

      Rev: Thanks for the analysis, I was puzzling over where this number had come from. Sad to see Commonspace apparently behaving just like any number of frustrating “left-wing” organisations that seem to be more interested in fighting their own side than the opposition.

      I have no idea about this issue and will not comment. But in general, once matters have been concluded, if Michelle and Nathalie are proven to be innocent, I really, REALLY REALLY hope they will pursue these so-called journalists and their “papers” with maximum attrition. It is the only way to slow down the escalating descent by the foreign-owned, Corporate Media into the sewer.

    23. tartanfever says:

      Add the BBC to the list alongside the Daily Record.

      An utterly bizarre piece of ‘journalism’ took place in yesterday lunchtime’s Reporting Scotland over the WFI matter.

      In the piece, McGarry’s lawyer, Aamer Anwar during an interview, reminded us that within the law in Scotland, we are presumed innocent until proved otherwise. A simple reminder that is often overlooked especially by the media. Guilty in the court of public opinion is a tactic often deployed by journalists and politicians and it was precisely this sad element of journalism that Anwar was highlighting.

      Immediately after the Anwar interview, Jackie Bird took us to Brian Taylor in Musselburgh who went on to make the extraordinary claim that,

      ‘like Michelle Thomson, McGarry may well be innocent.’

      What ! Yes she is innocent, as Anwar pointed out no less than 30 seconds before, you are innocent until proved otherwise and at the time of Taylor’s claim, she is innocent in the eyes of the law. She has not been charged, she is not under arrest. There is no ‘may well be’ about it, it is a matter of fact.

      Not only is it a huge blunder by Taylor, more importantly it goes to the heart of the problem at the BBC that they would deliberately edit a pre-recorded interview with that statement from Anwar and then place it alongside Taylor being allowed to ignore it in such a blatant fashion in his loosely scripted piece to camera.

      It’s one of the most striking elements we have to endure with BBC reporting, it’s maybe not bias, but it ceratinly is tabloid reporting, and with BBC Scotland being peppered with ex-Daily Record staff it’s not wonder the standard of journalism is so slapdash and exploitative.

    24. AAD says:

      The Independence movement has not, up until recently, had to handle big amounts of money. Is it a victim of inexperience in dealing with fast-moving financial transactions?

      Maybe I am culpably innocent but I just cannot believe there is intentional wrong-doing here.

    25. Ken Mair says:

      I thought I would buy the Record
      then I remembered
      I read it last year …….

    26. DerekM says:

      cant remember the missing 10k from Labour getting splattered all over the front pages ,or them being asked so boldly by the peoples chumpion where is the money.

      Yea like that is going to happen from the Labour dead tree press.

      This is just the start folks batten down the hatches and be prepared to be accused of scandal after scandal as the establishment dirty tricks brigade kick into defcom 3.

      Of course its all just deflection from another broken onion promise.

      I will let the police make the call on if someone has been up to no good just as the WFI have done,if they had found the culprit(if there is one)then they would not need the police to investigate what has been going on, only to come and take someone away in handcuffs.

      If this turns out to be a false accusation,the DR has just jumped off the stool with the rope around their neck,and the SNP should go on the attack and sue the pants of them for defamation.

    27. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      According to the Herald, WfI had three online crowd-funders in 2014, raising £20,823 in April, £15,186 in August and £15,615 in October.

      TOTAL £51,624 – Less 4% Indiegogo Fees of £2,064.96 = £49,559.04

      According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, WfI raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions (only an additional £257.19 on top of their crowdfunders)

      They spent £28,500 during the referendum campaign period and £8,700 prior to this = £37,200 in Total

      The Herald notes that after the referendum, it was stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage, and £3,800 went in donations to food banks in Perth and on hiring halls for meetings.

      That made another £10,110 of spending bringing the total spent by WfI to £47,310.00

      Meaning that £2,249.04 is unaccounted for in those figures.

      But here’s where it gets confusing…

      The Herald then note that:

      “Around £4,000 was ‘carried down’ into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.”

      So I can’t marry that up with the above figures for income.

    28. Stuart says:

      Wonderful too see folk in denial already.

      WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.

      Both of whom ignored them!

      WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34901119

      That’s two full months BEFORE the General election in May!

      The SNP knew about it, were told, and did nothing!

      Now you have to question WHY the SNP apparently did nothing?

      They let Ms McGarry stand for public office and be elected, despite knowing all about this.

      Then we have SNP office manager Shona McAlpine’s outburst on twitter, that WFI are ‘bullies’ and that Natalie is innocent.

      http://aidankerr.com/2015/11/24/snp-ministers-office-manager-wfi-are-bullies-and-natalie-mcgarry-is-innocent/

      Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!

      This really is looking like an Appalachian feud, but even so, it just adds fuel to the fire.

      So the Rev’s attempts to deflect away are risible.

      This from Newsnet Scotland;

      “Opposition parties, and particularly Labour, are seeking to exploit the resignations. It is their right to do so. The SNP have taken a similar position with scandals involving Labour MPs and MSPs in the past.”

      http://newsnet.scot/?p=116006

      Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question;

      “Commonspace was able to confirm that SNP MP Natalie McGarry had sole control over the PayPal account through which donations were made, and consequently was asked by WFI staff to account for the missing money, but failed to do so. The figure is estimated to be between £30,000 and £40,000.”

      All of which puts paid to the Rev’s assertion’s in his post.

      It seems that the SNP has a genuine scandal on it’s hands, and for one it can’t be blamed on MSM bias, MI5, or the ‘Tories’!

    29. Ruby says:

      ClanDonald says:
      25 November, 2015 at 11:45 am
      Doesn’t paypal take a fee too?

      Ruby replies

      For payments received its
      3.4% + £0.20 GBP

      Handy calculator
      http://www.clothnappytree.com/ppcalculator/

      According to the Herald ‘group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions
      I presume the £49,599 figure verified by EC is after deductions.

    30. Cammy says:

      The National is also quoting £30,000…

    31. Ruby says:

      Stuart says:
      25 November, 2015 at 12:05 pm
      Wonderful too see folk in denial already.

      WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.

      Ruby replies

      “It was in the course of that and the absence of information and not being able to get it that we got to a position where we had nowhere else to go with except to hand it to the police,” the source said.

      When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

      The source insisted WFI was a “non-party political organisation”. From the National

    32. Robert Peffers says:

      @Grouse Beater says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:21 am:

      ” … It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.”

      Aye! Grouse Beater, but considering there are people who still believe the Moon Landings were filmed in a secret Earth bound Film sets, that 9/11 was the result of controlled explosives and not just countless gallons of aviation spirits and the impact of a large flying machine.

      While others are killing many thousands of other people because their imagined superior being is the right God, and everyone else’s Gods are false Gods, even when they are all sects of the same religion. Yet there has never been a shred of evidence that any form of God actually exists or has ever existed.

      I long ago concluded that people will believe anything, no matter how unlikely. I’m far from being unique but I was educated to question everything and go with actual evidence.

      I remember, at the old Rosyth Dockyard College, in the early 1950’s, the class debating the possible landing of people on the Moon. The large majority believing it was not possible. I knew it was – going on available evidence.

      I also remember a debate about automation taking over the drudgery of mass production on production lines. Thus freeing up humans for more artistic, sporting, entertainment and pleasurable pursuits.

      It was concluded, even then, that unless the main body of population took control from the ruling elites of the day, they would consign the main body of population to a life of poverty and even to being involved in artificially instigated conflicts so as to benefit the rich elites. The evidence being two World wars and continual warfare throughout the World.

      Unfortunately the majority of the students believed the majority of the population would prevail. Me? – I wasn’t so certain. Perhaps I was a wee cynical bugger way back then too.

    33. steveasaneilean says:

      Innocent until proven guilty – yes, of course.

      But WfI clearly have serious issues with her and her alleged inability to answer what seem like legitimate questions from her WfI colleagues, if the story on Common Space is accurate:

      “A source within Women for Independence, who did not wish to be named, said: “Natalie had been asked to account for the discrepancy on numerous occasions and failed to do so.

      “I really hope she can explain herself to the police in a way she couldn’t to Women for Independence. Then we can say ‘thank goodness for that’ and move on.”

      SNP candidate for Aberdeenshire East Gillian Martin, who sits on WFI’s national committee, also told Commonspace that McGarry had been asked to explain the figures by the committee ever since concerns arose in late summer, but had not done so.

      On the decision taken by the national committee on 22 November, Martin said: “We’re gutted that we had to, but when you notice something like that you have to go to the police.”

      A statement supporting the action was signed by all members of the 23-strong national committee except for McGarry herself, and two others who were uncontactable at the time”.

      What frustrates me about this it all is how long it takes to get to the bottom of what seems like fairly straightforward issues. The Michelle Thompson thing has been going on for ages and we, the public, are no closer to having light shed on it all.

      It’s going to be the same with Natalie unless she can come up with clear and simple explanations that will satisfy the Police and her WfI colleagues (and if she can it the begs the question why she didn’t do so back in July when WfI asked her – at least according to the WfI version of events).

      There’s also the basic hypocrisy of the Opposition – the Tory leader being investigated for voting issues but carried on regardless; the LibDem MP for Orkney and Shetland who confesses to lying and has been in Court for possible breaking of electoral law still holding the LibDem whip at Westminster; the Labour MP up on assault charges yet still retaining the Labour whip at Westminster.

      I can’t stand that kind of hypocrisy and the media’s inability to highlight it. Why doesn’t Nicola bring it up at FMQs? I really wish she would be more aggressive in taking on the diddies on the other benches.

    34. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      Unless of course the £10,100 for wages/merchandise/postage etc… was part of the previously noted £28,500.

      Then total spending would be £37,200 and the £4,000 ‘carried down’ and £8,000 in reserve take the total of money accounted for to £49,200

      Meaning that the finances are actually about £616.23 short of balancing

    35. One_Scot says:

      The audacity of the Daily Record – ‘Newspaper of the Year’, ‘bogpaper of the year’ more like, printing the words ‘Trust’ and ‘Betrayed’ in bold.

      They clearly are just a bunch of piss taking Trolls probably pulling vinegar faces as they write their pish.

      I cannot believe there are still some people who are willing to give these ‘low lifes’ their own money. It beggars belief.

    36. David McDowell says:

      It’s simple!

      The Daily Record “believes” it, therefore it must be true!

      Just like Carmichael, who “believes” the Frenchgate memo, therefore it must be true!

      Just like The White Queen in “Through the Looking-Glass”, who told Alice: “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

    37. Bill Fraser says:

      Where will the Record be when we finally gain Independence.Maybe shift their H.Q.to somewhere south of the border.Their lies may cut some teeth down there!

    38. Sinky says:

      When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s WFI source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

      It seems there are internal jealousies at play within WFI.

      As said above why has Labour MP Marie Rimmer who unlike Thomson and McGarry has actually been charged with a crime not been requested to resigned from Labour whip?

      btw Labour’s Witchfinder General David Maddox has joined the Daily Express.

    39. Ruby says:

      The Herald state the following:

      ‘According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions, spent £28,500 during the referendum short campaign and £8,700 prior to this period.

      After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.

      Around £4,000 was “carried down” into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.’

    40. Andrew McLean says:

      Say what you like about the Record but the picture editor got the hat trick, a naked woman’s breast, a footballer and a pretty woman all on the front cover!
      Dancer! I think I will get a copy, oh that’s what I remember its full of shite!

      The Daily Record written by Idiots for Idiots, end off!

    41. tartanfever says:

      Stuart says :

      ‘WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!’

      Unfortunately for you the article you source doesn’t say that. It says that March 2015 is the and of the accounting period in question, and concerns were first raised in the summer of 2015.

    42. Thepnr says:

      “Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

      I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?

    43. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      ‘Carried down’ being the balance of an account at the end of an accounting period which is taken forward to become the balance at the beginning of a new period.

    44. Bob Mack says:

      @Stuart,

      The figures for money collected,and money spent is in the public domain. All that is missing as far as I can see is amounts held in hand.

      This makes your assertion nonsense particularly about thd amounts involved.

    45. schrodingers cat says:

      dr cries wolf again

      who cares what the dr says

    46. Capella says:

      The Establishment are clearly determined to destroy the reputations of female SNP MPs. The battle is on for the women’s vote. We ought to be prepared for dirty tricks of every kind. They have a long track record of smearing enemies.

      Innocent till proved guilty. And if not proved guilty, sue for defamation. I trust Aamer Anwar is well aware of what is going on.

    47. Dan Huil says:

      @Sinky 12:15pm

      Same thought occured to me. People are people. Except for BritNat “journalists” of course; they’re just…

    48. Proud Cybernat says:

      They’re not known as the ‘Idiot Media’ for nought. FFS – cannae even count.

      Clegg, 100 lines. Repeat:

      “Idiot Media… Idiot Media… Idiot Media… Idiot Media…”

    49. Ruby says:

      Stuart says:

      Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!

      Ruby replies

      That is incorrect according to the Herald:

      ‘Twenty members of the group’s national committee, seven of whom are SNP Holyrood candidates, signed a statement claiming:

      “We have identified an apparent discrepancy between our donation income and the expenditure which we currently have evidence of. We have exhausted all opportunities of obtaining adequate evidence or explanation to account for this discrepancy.”

      There is nothing there that states that this group of twenty member signed anything to say the police should be called and the story released to the press!

      I suspect the group of 20 have been duped especially the 7 Holyrood candidates unless of course they like to shoot themselves in both feet!

    50. Robert Peffers says:

      @bugsbunny says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:30 am:

      “Talking of Record Offices and the Reichstag, do any of you smokers know where I can buy a box of Swan Vestas?

      Yup!

      AMAZON –

      http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Swan-Vestas-Matches-pack/dp/B00BGUD870

    51. Jimbo says:

      Aye, but, everyone here knows the Daily Record don’t so much report the news as make a lot of it up.

      It’s trying to get that message across to the people who buy it that is the difficult part. I don’t think the Daily Record readers are mugs – It’s the Daily Record that does that.

    52. Charles says:

      Colin McKay ( Record) flippantly said on Scotland Tonight, that in comparison to WFI, Kezia Dugdale called the police about a missing 5k from her constituency office.

      Eh? the amount missing went from 10k to ‘just’ 5k, and it was Kezia who called the cops, and not the members of her office who had ‘ no option’ but to call in the police after receiving no response from London HQ!.

      So Kezia was either ignored by Labour HQ, and/or was part of the ongoing silence, and /or it was never her that called the cops the first place.

      But the real hatchet job was on BBC radio Scotland this morning. Forget the Russian fighter jet being shot down and the biggest threat to NATO in 60 years, forget the disgraceful abstaining by Labour on scrapping Trident…oh no, the Unionist media were foaming at the mouth at the WFI = SNP BAD story. Who did they have on their show to discuss this ‘ crisis’ for the SNP?…David Maddox and Kate Devlin!!!

      Usually i get pissed off, but today, i just burst out laughing!!! Journalism in this country is already viewed suspiciously by most, but today they just became a freak show at the circus.

    53. Weechid says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      25 November, 2015 at 11:21 am

      “Next step is for our secret police to place a few thousand pounds in the SNP’s bank account and then leak that it came from some terrorist group, or other. That’s what they did under Thatcher’s watch to undermine the integrity of the miner’s leader.

      It’s an old trick that leaves observers questioning individual honesty, even after the scam is discovered.”

      I’ve been getting laughed at on twitter for similar suggestions. Problem is that now I don’t trust system at all and even if she’s found guilty I’d think it was set up.

    54. Jimbo says:

      Maybe as a balance we should tweet our own headline to Kez

      Where’s the lost £10,000 Kezia

    55. Dan Huil says:

      @ Charles 12:27pm

      Same here. I glimpsed the front pages today whilst shopping. I just had to stand there with a [probably glaikit] grin on my face at the hysterical BritNat headlines. These publications are getting more desperate by the day. Great to see.

    56. crisiscult says:

      Sinky says:
      25 November, 2015 at 12:15 pm
      When asked if WFI passed its concerns on the SNP, The National’s WFI source said: “What are we supposed to say? One of your candidates is really f*****g annoying?”

      [b]It seems there are internal jealousies at play within WFI.[/b]

      That’s also what I gather from friends who are a little more ‘inside’ than I am (I’m not a member of the SNP by the way, but they are). However, what I think this whole thing highlights for me is why independence was such a good idea. Look at the level of monitoring and accountability that can be had in a smaller state, where the MPs are not more than 1 or 2 stages removed from us. I suspect there’s not a lot (if anything) in this story other than the aforementioned jealousies, rivalries, and a bit of incompetence on McGarry’s part. Compare this to the level of scrutiny we have at UK level. When Osborne and his Tory mates are making multi billion policy decisions based on the influence of banker and business contacts’ interests, how much scrutiny is there?

    57. Ruby says:

      Thepnr says:
      25 November, 2015 at 12:18 pm
      “Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

      I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?

      Ruby replies

      I think it would be a lot easier to embezzle from a bank account than a Paypal account.

      Sure Natalie McGarry’s bank account will be linked to the Paypal account you need to link a bank account/credit card to Paypal accounts.
      The Herald are trying to make out this is something suspicious.

      You can transfer money from the Paypal account to the bank account but there will be a note of that on the Paypal statement.

      If there is no money in the Paypal account any payment made via Paypal would come out of your bank account/credit card.

    58. muttley79 says:

      @Rev Stu

      In other words, even if WFI hadn’t officially spent a single penny since the referendum – which seems highly implausible – and even if the disputed PayPal account has absolutely nothing left in it (which not even an unnamed “source” has claimed), then the Record, by its own figures, has almost DOUBLED the amount of money that’s allegedly gone missing and screamed it across a giant banner headline.

      The WFI had a big meeting/rally after the referendum last year. They hired a hall in Perth, and about 1,000 women attended. That must have cost a fair bit to host.

    59. Robert Peffers says:

      @Achnababan says: 25 November, 2015 at 11:41 am:

      “My 82 year old mother buys the DR for the crossword…. I am deeply ashamed but what can I do brothers and sisters?”

      Well you could keep buying and gifting her crossword puzzle books. They are not expensive and would probably work out cheaper in the longer term.

    60. David McDowell says:

      Does that crowdfunding figure include or exclude PayPal transaction fees?
      If it excludes transaction fees that alone could account for £5011! Crowdfunding is an expensive business!

    61. Stuart says:

      For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/14100715.SNP_knew_about_questions_over_pro_indy_group_s_finances_for_weeks_as_MP_steps_down_

      “THE MP at the centre of a police investigation after around £30,000 apparently went missing from a pro-independence campaign group’s accounts has stepped down from the SNP, as it emerged the party knew about concerns over the organisation’s finances weeks ago.

      Natalie McGarry last night resigned the SNP whip at Westminster meaning she is automatically suspended from the party after Women for Independence, which she co-founded, called in police over discrepancies between donations and expenditure.

      It is understood that an internal audit, carried out by two senior Women for Independence figures and a chartered accountant and covering 2014 to March this year, revealed concerns about money raised for the group through an online PayPal system, which was linked to the MP’s personal bank account.”

      So WFI had knew about this in March, told the SNP privately, heard nothing from either the SNP or Ms McGarry (Allegedly) and so went to the Police.

      Despite knowing all of this BEFORE the elections, the SNP continued to let Ms McGarry stand for public office.

      Whichever way you look at it, so far we have a lot more questions than answers, and for those invoking Kezia Dugdale and a missing £10,000.

      The crucial difference is that Ms Dugdale did not have sole personal control of the account that money was kept in, unlike Ms McGarry (Allegedly)!

      Even the ‘National’ did not suggest that!

      http://www.thenational.scot/politics/local-activists-call-in-police-due-to-inaction-over-10000-missing-from-coffers-of-kezia-dugdales-constituency-lab

      I would also remind those seeking to deflect about this, that having made hay over other parties scandals as should rightly happen, you are now being hoist by your own petard, and so cannot complain about it.

      As what’s sauce for the Goose…

    62. Andrew McLean says:

      Robert Peffers @ Achnababan

      And you could glue them to the back of the National?

    63. Looks like the constant pressure by Nicola and the SNP on Osborne to drop tax credit cuts has paid of.

    64. Dan Huil says:

      @ Stuart

      “As what’s sauce for the Goose…”

      Take a Gander at today’s hysterical headlines in the BritNat press and taste the desperation. Mmmmm.

    65. HandandShrimp says:

      I don’t think I have ever read a detail in the Record or Express that was ever accurate. I don’t doubt that WfI have had difficulty reconciling their accounts and getting them signed off but only the brave or stupid would start making accusations of theft at this stage…or singling out a specific individual.

      Of course Labour will make hay. They have so little to work with that matters that would barely make page 5 have to be milked for all they are worth. Labour have no moral leg to stand on. Rimmer is charged with assault but still holds the whip never mind stand down. Even if found guilty and fined I bet she will still hold the whip. Labour are a do as I say party not a do as I do party.

      If McGarry is guilty of any crime then it will out in due course. No one should have to stand down if they haven’t been charged with a crime. As for Michelle Thompson..do the police even want to interview her? How long will that carry on last?

      In other news Osborne has decided not to scrap tax credits so Baillie won’t have to try and count on her fingers and toes.

      In yet other news WW3 hasn’t started yet but you would never likely even get a hint that it was on the way given the SNPbad obsession of the Scottish press.

    66. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Stuart

      Forget the Idiot Media, laddie. They cannae even count.

      SNP x 2 SE2016.

    67. tartanfever says:

      I see Stuart is reposting having deleted the link to the BBC story which says that ‘concerns were first raised in the summer’ but he interprets as ‘March’.

      I’d give up pal, you’re flogging the proverbial…

    68. Ruby says:

      Stuart says:
      25 November, 2015 at 12:53 pm
      For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;

      Ruby replies

      I read your earlier post and it was loaded with so much misinformation I decided not to waste any more time reading your posts. I expect many other will do likewise.

    69. galamcennalath says:

      @Scot Findlayson

      Aye, you can tell who is winning, and who is shit scared.

      I used to think the objective was smearing. Maybe it was, but polls show no evidence of effectiveness. I now think stories like this are released on queue as deflection tactics.

      The BIG domestic story should be Labour, including their sole Scottish MP, backing Trident renewal by saying they don’t care either way.

    70. Foonurt says:

      Sumhin reeks ah aull Herring heids.

    71. crisiscult says:

      @Stuart

      I’m not going to dispute what you may know as an insider. Additionally, having met Natalie a couple of times socially, I’m not her biggest fan on a personal level. That being said, there is a wider problem with how the media behaves that visitors to this site see as being much more significant than the content (real or imagined) of this story: with finite resources, they need to prioritise those resources: what can be investigated, and and what can go to copy. Trying to sensationalise to get more sales is necessary when the story doesn’t have sturdy legs in the first place. We can see that and understand that exaggeration doesn’t mean the story is discredited. However, the model that sees corporate media ‘filter’ news is damaging to our interests but good for the interests of a few people who have invested in the UK establishment. This may help you to understand why there is a desire by readers here to a) deflect (as you put it), or b) make allowances for a greater good.

      In addition to this, the function of Rev Stu is similar to what we imagine should be the function of the media. Hold those with positions of influence to a standard of performance that requires them to justify their influence.

    72. Muscleguy says:

      I expect Ms McGarry hasn’t had a moment to herself since two months out from the May election. No doubt her domicile is knee deep in election bumpf she hasn’t had a chance to clear and the necessary records are in there somewhere, if only she had time. Hopefully resigning the whip will give her that time and the need to account to the polis the impetus and it will all be cleared up.

      The moral will be when standing for office, clear all outstanding matters before starting to campaign to be selected to stand. Once selected your time will not be your own and that will go up an order of magnitude once elected.

    73. schrodingers cat says:

      Scotland bill meets the vow….Osborne bollox.

    74. Kenny says:

      It seems an odd story in a few ways.

      You’d think, for example, that the missing amount would have been listed in the audit that was apparently conducted and so there would be no “it is believed to be around…” statements.

      You’d think Natalie McGarry, as a founder of WfI, wouldn’t want to damage the organisation. You’d think that if she had done nothing wrong, she’d have explained herself pretty quickly. Then again, if she’d done something wrong, you have to wonder why. It’s not like skimming the petty cash that could be easily missed. £30,000 is a LOT of money and showing her own bank statements ought to be enough to prove that she doesn’t have it (assuming it’s a Paypal-related issue.)

      On the other hand, it does seem weird that WfI would seemingly come down so hard and so directly on one of their own unless there was either a very strong suspicion against McGarry or a desire to blacken her name for whatever reason.

      Of course, McGarry is innocent until proven guilty. We shouldn’t automatically dismiss the latter possibility. But as someone said elsewhere, this is what happens when the unionist media cries wolf. A very large number of us have seen so many baseless smears and outright lies over the last couple of years that ANY attack on the SNP, the national movement or any of its prominent members gets instantly written off. That’s not very healthy for anyone. Here’s hoping Police Scotland get to the bottom of it quickly though and that our hope that McGarry has done nothing wrong is justified. The alternative outcomes don’t really bear thinking about.

    75. Ruby says:

      muttley79 says:

      The WFI had a big meeting/rally after the referendum last year. They hired a hall in Perth, and about 1,000 women attended. That must have cost a fair bit to host.

      Ruby replies

      Not quite sure why they have grouped Hall hire & food bank donations together and why they have used the term ‘almost’ It seem strange!

      The Herald state the following:

      ‘According to the WfI financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014 after deductions, spent £28,500 during the referendum short campaign and £8,700 prior to this period.

      After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.

      Around £4,000 was “carried down” into 2015 and £8,000 was in reserve.’

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      There were two articles in the Herald I commented on during the night, both now closed for comments and comments removed. One by Sanderson showed the detail from which I calculated a very similar sum to the above £16,000. The other by Hutcheon claiming the £30,000 figure where I pointed out that the other article showed it to be false.

      But what is interesting is that the amount unaccounted for is nearly the same as the £16,000 odd of the October fundraiser, and that fundraising minus Referendum spending etc seems to show that the money spent up till then was nearly equal to the total of the two fundraisers, i.e. nothing “missing” before the October fundraiser.

      So that the first thing to check is – was that £16,000 of the Ocotber fundraiser ever received in McGarry’s bank account, or did it go missing on its way there? That would neeed co-operation from Paypal which would need the police to do.

      Next thing to check of course is just the bank accounts since that October 2014 fundraiser, not rocket science surely.

      It seems the Herald investigative reporter just reads the Record.

    77. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Just for the ‘Record’, to say (perhaps more properly),’that paper is not fit to wipe the hole in me arse with,’ is a paraphrasing of a line from Frank McCourt’s book, Angela’s Ashes.

      I prefer the version above as it is more accurate than just yer general non-specific-anywhere-at-all-on-your arse statement, which nonetheless still applies to all the press, media and journalists in this country.

    78. Stuart says:

      Jimbo says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:32 pm

      Maybe as a balance we should tweet our own headline to Kez

      Where’s the lost £10,000 Kezia

      # Answer, the Constituency secretary and the local constituency committee run the account in that Labour Branch.

      Dugdale is the MP for the area and is likely on the committee but she does not run the constituency bank account personally.

      The Branch Treasurer has been suspended.

      Ms McGarry was the Women for Indy committee member, and had sole access to the paypal account which were linked to her personal bank account.

      As don’t you think if Dugdale HAD allegedly taken the money, then we would know by now?

      Sorry to ruin your attempt at deflection!

    79. Petra says:

      O/T

      Scot Finlayson says at 12:58 pm ”Looks like the constant pressure by Nicola and the SNP on Osborne to drop tax credit cuts has paid of.”

      That’ll kind of cover up the fact that Westminster Labour voted against the Scottish Government having control over tax-credits don’t you think? Other than the cover up it’ll be a real b*mmer for Kezia Dugdale. What’s she going to promise the Scots now?

    80. Robert Graham says:

      Stuart fek off ok

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      From the Herald, by the way:

      According to a confidential Women for Independence financial report from March 2015, which is in the MP’s name, the group raised £49,816.23 in 2014, following three successful online fundraisers. Expenses detailed included £28,500 during the referendum short campaign, with costs after the vote including £2,500 in wages and £2,900 on merchandise.

    82. Capella says:

      @ Ruby
      I think the Perth Hall meeting was also a collection point for foodbank donations. If I remember the publicity correctly.

      Hope Over Fear rallies in 2014 also combined the rally with foodbank collections.

    83. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Stuart

      Are you suggesting here that Natalie McGarry is guilty? Carful how you answer that, laddie.

      No?

      Then piss off.

    84. Dan Huil says:

      Excellent post today on the matter from derekbateman.co.uk

    85. r esquierdo says:

      There are 800,000 adults with very low numeracy and literacy levels in Scotland. There lies a major problem

    86. Bob Mack says:

      @stuart,

      Every branch meeting of any description, or party ,involves a treasurers report. No?

      It is up to the membership to make sure they are happy with the financial situation.That involves checking the ins and outs. I do it myself with several orgs of which I am on Committee. Bad governance on behalf of Labour and WFI.

      Time will tell all things. Till then she is innocent.

    87. asklair says:

      In this digital-age in my opinion all community accounts should be published on line for public viewing. Take a photo of voucher, (could be invoice or tally from donation tin) up load onto open source accounting system with amount, problem solved unless fraud is happening. You will never stop fraud but many eyes on an open and transparent process makes it less likely to happen.

    88. galamcennalath says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      “Scotland bill meets the vow….Osborne bollox.”

      The Vow offered just three simple things: substantially more powers, continuation of Barnett, and permanency of Scottish Parliament.

      As they say on EUVision ‘nul points’ there for Osborne. Next!

    89. Big Jock says:

      Interestingly the McGarry story has dropped out of BBC Scotland website altogether and STV? Herald has dropped it 4 down!

      Has someone been rumbled or have they been warned by the judiciary!

    90. Andy A says:

      I think the item marked ‘Post-Referendum Spending’ of £8700 should actually be Pre-Referendum Spending if we can believe the paper which says it was incurred prior to May 30th.

      Yesindyref2 quotes a figure in the Herald of £5400 post-referendum spending. If I’ve got this right then,presumably that would then come off the £16,294 figure making a figure of just over £10,000.

    91. ArtyHetty says:

      As N. McGarry’s lawyer said, in Scotland you are innocent until PROVEN guilty.

      Trial by the right wing unionist, anti democracy rags is just so obviously the usual tactic of attempting to discredit the SNP as a party, it’s not about N.M for them, not at all.

      Anyone would think there was nothing else going on in the world, and no crazed idiots at the helm gunning for war to the detriment of all of us.

      What are the English rags discussing this week? How to bake a xmas cake probably, or what tat to buy for xmas. They are not so interested in little Scotland and SNP politicians, but prefer to inform the electorate of the corruption and secrecy of their masters. Aye.

    92. Bill Hume says:

      Stuart…………why don’t you just fuck off, there’s a good chap.

    93. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –

      You’re a historian, right?

      You know that in all societies, anywhere, at any given time, some subjects are taboo.

      Right now, the events of 9/11 are taboo in ‘Western’ society.

      Does that entitle you to lash out (as you did in the previous thread) at people who go to the trouble of doing their own research?

      Thirty years ago, anyone in the independence movement who brought up the ‘alleged’ McCrone Report was dismissed with the same angry mockery you are demonstrating.

    94. Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby 12:39

      http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3330098/Barclays-PayPal-Apple-customers-targeted-smishing-attacks.html
      Had a look at my own PayPal account, I use it for on line purchases ;-).

      It will all come out in the wash, as it will be relatively easy to trace payments, even if lost the receiver will have a copy.

      Nothing like a bit of nudge nudge, wink wink, oh you don’t say, oh my! well I never, Shock, Anger, Outrage, Chaos, Crisis, Trashed, Snubbed, Banned, Lies! to brighten up your day!

    95. Eppy says:

      Until recently, I would have thought that Grouse Beater’s (11.21 am) suggestion of how the money could be moved by the secret police was up there with fabricated moon landing theories. But listening to the women victims of the Met Police undercover officers in the 1980’s and onward, my trust for the establishment has now evaporated.

      Is the fact that groups of politically active women are involved in these cases a common thread? Are they somehow more threatening to a predominantly male establishment, or are they just easier targets.

      And I am still sure that dirty tricks for Frenchgate (another attempt to smear a woman at the heart of Indy) go way beyond Carmichael and Mundell. They didn’t have the brains to dream up such a scheme.

    96. call me dave says:

      @Bob Mack

      That’s good advice!

      The true will unfold in time.

      The ‘BUM’ (British Unionist Media) are already working on the next target it will never end even when people decide to stop voting for unionist parties and Scotland is independent.

      ‘BUM’ will still be spitting and snarling like Capt Ahab to Moby Dick..

      “…To the last, I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart, I stab at thee; for hate’s sake, I spit my last breath at thee.” 🙁

    97. @Petra
      Kezia/Ruth will probably want to know how Nicola is going to spend the extra money that not having tax credit cuts will give the Scottish government.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      Aug 27 2015 (hackernews) – and similar such as theregister (I get a weekly security newsletter):

      “A critical security vulnerability has been discovered in the global e-commerce business PayPal that could allow attackers to steal your login credentials, and even your credit card details in unencrypted format.

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Stuart says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:05 pm:

      “Wonderful too see folk in denial already.”

      Then why are you doing so, Stuart?

      “WFI bought to the issue to Police attention, as they had spent ‘months’ trying to contact Ms McGarry, and the SNP about this.”

      Perhaps it might be because, until there is more than an accusation of wrong doing, there must remain a presumption of innocence. That goes for WFI, The SNP, The Police, The Procurators Fiscal, The media and members of the public in the public domain – and that includes YOU.

      “Both of whom ignored them!

      WFI in fact raised this issue privately with the SNP in March!”

      See above.

      “Now you have to question WHY the SNP apparently did nothing?”

      Why? As yet there is no more than a rather doubtful suspicion on the part of WFI that seems not to be based upon actual already known facts and figures. I’m no great shakes at maths but even I cannot see any large discrepancies in the basic arithmetic. (Note Scott Minto’s analysis above and they do seem reasonable to me.)

      As always I reserve judgment on the side of caution before accusing anyone of criminal action until after they are proven to actually have done wrong. Seems you believe otherwise and presume guilt before proof.

      “They let Ms McGarry stand for public office and be elected, despite knowing all about this”

      And what exactly, may I ask, is it you presume they knew/know that the rest of us, (yourself and the MSM excluded), actually know? All I know is that there has been doubts expressed about the accounts. The doubt actually do NOT seem to stand up to the scrutiny of simple arithmetic.

      “Then we have SNP office manager Shona McAlpine’s outburst on twitter, that WFI are ‘bullies’ and that Natalie is innocent.”

      Well now, it does rather seem that YOU, and the media, are still presuming she is NOT innocent and, as they are indeed going public with their, as yet, only accusations, there may indeed be an element of bullying going on. Note I say, “seems”, but make no accusation there is.

      “Well if that’s true then that means 7 SNP candidates were part of a group that called in the Police, to ‘Bully’ Natalie McGarry!”

      Whoa! There! The evidence is that they, the group, requested the police to investigate if there has been criminality by Ms McGarry. The group have only requested the police to investigate IF there has been criminal wrongdoing and the police have, as yet, done no more than confirm they have been so requested.

      Which beggars the question, What exactly are YOUR motives for APPARENTLY jumping to such obvious wrong conclusions?

      “So the Rev’s attempts to deflect away are risible.”

      Err! No! The Rev Stu has done nothing of the sort. He has, as usual, done no more than expose the figures being banded about as, to say the least, being questionable. Are you perhaps claiming they are not questionable? For to do so is to not only accuse Ms McGarry of being guilty but also to claim the rather doubtful arithmetic is a true set of figures.

      Unlike you the Rev Stu does indeed set out in detail WHY the figures do NOT seem to indicate criminality and also he casts doubt upon the practice of assumed guilt even before criminality has been established and further doubt that, if there is indeed missing funds, who the guilty person is.

    100. Andrew McLean says:

      Eppy

      British police trick women into sexual relationships, CPS no Crime!

      British police spend millions guarding Julian Assange from claim he tricked women into sexual relationships.

      Are we Alice looking in our out?

    101. schrodingers cat says:

      o/t
      Osborne slight of hand

      by transferring housing association valuation to the over all uk budget, he then recalculated all of his estimates on this new figure
      why?

      because if he hadn’t, all his estimates would have been blown out of the water.

      if you don’t make your budget targets, simply recalculate the total budget on which you based your budget targets to hide the failure

      Osborne economic

    102. Petra says:

      It would seem that no one really knows how much money went missing at all, if it did, and who misappropriated the funds, if anyone did at all. Right now it’s all conjecture.

      What I would really like to know is this: is this case going to drag on as long as the Michelle Thomson case? What’s holding up Police Scotland’s findings with regard to that situation? Why are they dragging their heels? Or is this just going to disappear into the ether like the Ruth Davidson case (no calls for her to be suspended)? Her case of course hushed up by the Idiots Media.

      Has Michelle Thomson committed a criminal act or not? The sooner these cases are dealt with the better and if one or both are found to be innocent should take newspapers such as the Daily Record to Court for Defamation of Character.

      Nicola Sturgeon should ENSURE that this happens as these cases are not just personal but as we know impact on the SNP …you and I … the Independence Cause … no doubt the main reason behind such flagrant publicity of course.

      If she doesn’t this will continue as it’s becoming clear that ‘THEY’ are determined to pick off SNP politicians one by one.

    103. Jimbo says:

      @ Stuart

      You seem to know an awful lot about it.

      Where were you when the money went missing. 🙂

    104. Fireproofjim says:

      Big Jock
      Interesting. I have just finished watching BBC Scotland news at 1.30.
      Not a cheep about the McGarry business.
      So strange. They would usually spend days on the SNPbad implications. Wonder why.

    105. yesindyref2 says:

      @Muscleguy
      Yes, there seems to be some idea that everyone has all our receipts, invoices, bank statements, neatly organised in a little folder. Bur for some of us it’s not one folder and even if it was neatly organised it’d be about a cubic metre and that’s not even one year’s worth, and it’s having disposed of envelopes, junk mail, scrawled notes, rubbish.

      My little business for instance is owed a good few unpaid accounts, I’m about two-thirds through sorting the paper but had to stop to get on with actually making stuff. And that’s being OWED money which I need 🙁

    106. Iain More says:

      @stuart

      Yer arse is leaking there Stuart. It started to leak when you swallowed verbatim everything the BBC and Herald and the no doubt the Record spewed at you. It is coming out both ends. The BBC, Record and the Herald suffer from the winter vomiting bug but they have it everyday of the year.

    107. Bob Mack says:

      @Andrew McLean,

      No wonderland involved Andrew,we are just the American 53rd State.

    108. Andrew McLean says:

      Bob Mack
      And You are Big Mack ? 🙂

    109. Heather McLean says:

      Thepnr says:
      ““Especially as we now learn that Natalie McGarry had sole control over the Paypal account in question”

      I don’t know how it normally works, do Indiegogo give an option to pay funds raised on their site to a Paypal account, did WFI not have a bank account?”

      In the beginning WFI did not have a bank account, don’t know the ins and outs of banking but I believe that in order for any organisation to have a bank account they have to have a constitution, and until the first AGM that WFI held in Perth they did not have a constitution.
      It would appear that any crowdfunders through indiegogo or fundraising through PayPal went into Natalie’s bank account.

      Just recently, I did a crowdfunder through Scotland Supporting Refugees to raise money for refugees in Lesvos as I was going out to visit friends over there.
      I was extremely uncomfortable about the money being raised going straight into my own personal bank account, but there was no other way of doing it as Scotland Supporting Refugees is a campaign group and not an official charity or NGO with a bank account, and we deliberately did not want to go down that route.

      The money raised from my crowdfunder went directly into my account after a specified number of days and continued to do so until I closed it on reaching well over the target amount.

      I then withdrew the money from my account and bought euros to take out with me, where I bought water from the wholesaler and ordered blankets from IKEA in Athens. The GoFundme people took their cut as well so the amount I withdrew didn’t match the total on the crowdfunder.
      As I said, I was very uncomfortable doing this, but there’s no other way unless the group you are with applies for charitable status or has a constitution.

      I for one believe that there must be a reasonable explanation for this, I’m surmising Natalie McGarry didn’t get back to WFI quite as quickly as they wanted but understandable when she had other things more pressing on her mind, like campaigning to win Margit Currans seat in parliament!
      I know Natalie, personally and I’ve no doubt there is some innocent explanation for this discrepancy nod all will be accounted for in the fullness of time!
      Innocent till proved guilty!!

    110. ahundredthidiot says:

      Re DR sales, if people knew how many unread copies go straight into Scotland’s regional airports recycling compactors on a daily basis they’d be shocked. Or delighted.

    111. Pat Carroll says:

      Maybe it’s Paypal’s mistake. It’s not unheard of.

    112. Skip_NC says:

      Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. I haven’t had time to read all the comments, so apologies if I am covering an issue that has already been raised. A couple of days ago there were a couple of things that struck me – which should be read together. The first one was a statement that only Natalie McGarry had access to the PayPal account. The second was that expenditures could not yet be verified.

      Now, I am not a qualified accountant, but I have been in public accounting for over 25 years. Only having one person with access to one source of money is a security risk. It is also pretty dumb and likely to lead to, quite frankly, a shambolic set of books. When you combine that with the statement that expenditure could not *yet* be verified, it points towards incompetence, in my view.

      Which brings me to a final point. WFI’s mission seems to have changed since the referendum. Has it now attracted others who would not be unhappy to see the SNP embarrassed?

    113. Petra says:

      @ Dan Huil says at 1:28 pm ”Excellent post today on the matter from derekbateman.”

      Yeah it is excellent Dan and I noticed this ”Wonder why the Thomson case is taking so long? If it’s mortgage fraud, the lender could tell the police in a single phone call.”

      I wonder what the Police are playing at?

      http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/11/25/women-for-notoriety/

      @ Scot Finlayson says at 1:52 pm ”Petra, Kezia /Ruth will probably want to know how Nicola is going to spend the extra money that not having tax credit cuts will give the Scottish government.”

      Spot on Scot. Meanwhile it will have given her a bit of an ‘abacus’ headache while she tries to work out what THEY will do with it …. with help from Horace Broon of course.

    114. ArtyHetty says:

      Re, Eppy

      I wondered that and came to the conclusion that it’s both. Female politicians of the calibre we vote for in the SNP are a huge threat to the boys club in westmonster unionist circles. They actually have brains and are not just totty, sorry I hate that word and maybe I should say, puppets. They probably see the women as easy targets as well, unsurprisingly.

      O/T noticed ‘Altered state, part 3’ now showing over at Wee Ginger Dug, I am gonna watch it later. It’s 30+ minutes, can’t wait.

    115. Bob Mack says:

      @Skip NC,

      Probably Skip. There have been accusations of dissent within the organisation, who I might add are not all SNP supporters by any means.

    116. call me dave says:

      Stuart Hosie’s reply to the Osbourne Autumn Statement was excellent. Pointing out the obvious that the Tories are running from crisis to crisis and there is no long term plan. Austerity for ten years.

      But George continues to mock all things Scottish.

      He forgets that 97% of whatever the oil is worth is better than Sweet FA!

      He quotes the recent Bell article… that’s us telt again!

    117. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Why did the WFI income and expenses go over Nat. McG. personal account?

      It would have been much easier to open up a second account in her name and/or with access for a second person and use that for the daily WFI business.

    118. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:12 pm:

      ” … Meaning that the finances are actually about £616.23 short of balancing”

      Ah! But Scott, does that total include the Petty Cash Box? Things like postage stamps, stationary, tea, coffee and biscuits? It looks more and more like this is just another attempt to conjure up SNPBAD karma.

    119. Glesca Keelie says:

      Right, I’ll raise you £10,000.

      I have’nt noticed anyone mentioning, although I may have missed a post, but in the National yesterday, pages 2 and 3, beneath a piece on Labour, Andrew Learmonth claims a sum between £30,000 and £40,000 “may” be missing. Aye, and there’s a squadron of porkers wizzing soon.

      Everybody knows how hard it is, excepting WOS, to get lots of donations. Learmonth claims “several” hundred donations, so lets say 1000 of them. That means an average of £30 to £40 each one.

      Our good Rev. would probably say, load of crap. It took something over 6000 punters to get to 120K for Carmichael over 2 fund-raisers. Or maybe WFI have auffy wealthy and generous donors.

    120. Ruby says:

      Capella says:
      25 November, 2015 at 1:25 pm
      @ Ruby
      I think the Perth Hall meeting was also a collection point for foodbank donations. If I remember the publicity correctly.

      Hope Over Fear rallies in 2014 also combined the rally with foodbank collections.

      Ruby replies

      The point I was trying to make probably no very well was that combining hall charges & foodbank donations together is pretty sloppy book-keeping.

      They will most definitely have an invoice from Perth Hall for room-hire and that will be a precise figure.

      The amount donated to foodbanks should also be a precise figure along with a receipt from the supermarket or wherever the foodbank donation was bought.

      The Herald states

      ‘After the referendum, she stated that £2,500 was spent on wages, £2,900 on merchandise, £910 on postage and almost £3,800 in donations to food banks in Perth and on hall hires.’

    121. Macart says:

      Heh, who knew?

      Banner headlines with unconfirmed figures.

      Ah’ll wait till any investigation has been properly conducted with conclusions reached. Trial by press is not the way to fix anything, but it is a way of directing/manipulating opinion and attention.

      Whatever the truth and circumstance of this situation, speculation will not help either any ongoing investigation or those involved.

      Right now though, I’m a damn site more concerned with Osborne’s statement and its repercussions for folk, the Scotland Bill which doesn’t deliver, a Labour party that went awol on Trident (which is kinda important seein’ as how its based here) and the possibility of yet more military actions hoving in to view.

    122. Andrew McLean says:

      I looked into Natalies past, so she has been an SNP activist for more than 20 years, so far so good!She comes from a family of SNP activists No harm in that.

      Hold On her partner is the only Conservative Councillor in Glasgow. !! FFS

      Seriously I don’t believe a word of it, you ignore them Natalie, swines the lot of them, writing their lies about you, stay strong we have your back!

      Conservative Councillor as if!

    123. Lollysmum says:

      Re Paypal-I flatly refuse to use it. I bought a 3 piece suite for my elderly Mum 3 yrs ago. £2000 paid through Paypal. The money left my bank account & was shown on my statement as going to Paypal but they denied ever recieving it.

      Lot’s of to-ing & fro-ing of letters,emails etc but never resolved. I still had to pay again but skipped the middleman Paypal & went direct to suppliers.

      Now I won’t consider payments through them. I donated to Jeane Freemans campaign this week & tweeted her for bank account details so I could pay direct into the branch account. That worked for me 🙂

    124. DerekM says:

      why does it now seem like all the onions are backtracking on this story ?

      Whats the matter guys did you forget your precious Labour party has 10k unaccounted for,are you all scared in case this story brings that one to the forefront hmmm,or has the law been on to you telling you to shut your stupid gubs or else.

      very interesting i wonder if this is about to backfire spectacularly ,i would be interested to know who is behind this accusation and why are they so scared to come forward into the open if they are telling the truth.

    125. Petra says:

      @ cynicalHighlander at 2:15pm

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgbhALwH9DY

      Well worth a watch cynicalHighlander ….. I’m a cynical lowlander, lol. So cynical that I’ve been asking myself from day one if it’s possible that another ‘group’ attacked Paris recently because let’s face it if it was Daesh they must have known that their cronies, ‘troops’, in Iraq and Syria would subsequently take an even greater hammering. Then again if it was Daesh supporters does their venom and anger supersede their ability to reason?

      Whatever the case some of the points raised and events analysed in this video highlight that this type of act, by so-called own side, has been proven historically to be ‘common practise’ … a practise carried out to influence the masses to support ‘them’ in achieving their short-term aim / s and in doing so, when realised, furthering their long-term objective / agenda.

    126. Thepnr says:

      @Heather McLean

      Many thanks for that detailed response to my query.

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @Stuart says: 25 November, 2015 at 12:53 pm:

      “For those still in denial and blaming it all on the media, as per my earlier post this from the Herald;”

      If you don’t mind I will not click on a direct link to a ratpack MSM source. Either archive it or understand it will not be clicked.

    128. muttley79 says:

      As far as I can tell the bottom line in the situation with Natalie McGarry, and in regards to Michelle Thompson as well, is that if Nicola Sturgeon thinks they have become a liability or damaging to the SNP, and she thinks she will have difficulty in defending them in public, then they will be asked to stand down as MPs. Even if they have broken no law, if the FM and the SNP leadership as a whole assess that they have become a liability, then they will be asked to stand down imo. In the environment we are operating in then that to me is the endgame, unless both SNP MP come up with explanations that are strong enough to be accepted by the majority of voters in Scotland.

    129. Auld Rock says:

      So what’s happened to the Plice investigation into the alleged missing £10,000,000,000 (based on DR’s arithmetic methodology)from Kez’s Constituency Office petty cash? Never hear much about that from DR, BBC et al!!!!!! Forgot SNP-BAD, silly me.

      Auld Rock

    130. Patrick Roden says:

      Checked the daily redcoat today to see what garbage they were now spouting…strangely enough the story seemed to be dropped!

      Something’s A FOOT (boom boom)

    131. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 25 November, 2015 at 1:16 pm:

      “It seems the Herald investigative reporter just reads the Record”

      More likely that the Herald and Record use a News Agency and would get the same information from it. Of course to reach the same conclusion there may well also have been collusion. I often feel the MSM act together and suspect they are fed stories from the Establishment who in turn get them from the so called security services.

      Looking at their track record of such cases as Willie McRae and other suspicious deaths of those the Establishment saw as their enemies gives cause for worry.

    132. Suzanne says:

      @yesindyref2 at 1:16 pm

      So that the first thing to check is – was that £16,000 of the Ocotber fundraiser ever received in McGarry’s bank account, or did it go missing on its way there? That would neeed co-operation from Paypal which would need the police to do.

      Spot on. First, that was a big account for Natalie to handle on her own. Having said that, hindsight is always an irritating teacher when something goes wrong.

      If you have hundreds and hundreds of pounds flowing in and out, and you’re not keeping a regular tally on every single transfer and marrying each transaction up with in and out, who’s to say that Paypal didn’t cock it up at one point? Or her bank?

      Then there’s the possibility of her Paypal account having been hacked, of course.

      There’s always a simple explanation. It’s easily unravelled. And is she ABSOLUTELY sure that no-one had access to her log-in details?

      I will not believe that someone in so prominent a position within her constituency and in WFI would have deliberately mismanaged the funds. She’s an intelligent woman who would know that each and every single SNP candidate / MP will be watched by the media and the opposition for the slightest chance of a media frenzy.

      Lots of ifs and buts, but I’m confident there is a simple explanation and I’m confident in the police finding the answers.

    133. scott says:

      Labour MP Marie Rimmer faces trial over alleged ‘referendum assault’next year

      Will someone ask Jackie Baillie if this MP should give up the whip as she is charged not like the SNP MSPs and will Shelley of Scotland 2015 be asking questions about her.

    134. Kevin Evans says:

      Typical journalism – like frenchgate the smear goes out in full on mode. That’s the important job done. Any retraction or follow up story correcting facts will be printed on page 10 in small print.

      Wether it’s true or not the damage has been done. Simple.

    135. G. Campbell says:

      Euan McColm liked this:

      Simon Pia @SimonPia1 Nov 24
      Journos 1st & foremost are critics especially comes to politics – too many in Scotland tho are now cheerleaders – fans with laptops

      https://twitter.com/SimonPia1/status/6690889999281438

      In Simon’s head, he’s talking about the SNP. In Euan’s head, the Tory government doesn’t exist.

    136. Petra says:

      Macart says at 2:46 pm ….Ah’ll wait till any investigation has been properly conducted with conclusions reached. Trial by press is not the way to fix anything …. Right now though, I’m a damn site more concerned with Osborne’s statement and its repercussions for folk, the Scotland Bill which doesn’t deliver, a Labour party that went awol on Trident (which is kinda important seein’ as how its based here) and the possibility of yet more military actions hoving in to view.”

      Me to Macart. Osborne reiterating that the Vow has been fulfilled when the ‘Lords’ are basically saying it’s a shambles (for who?), intent on destroying Scotland, publicly humiliating the Scots at every opportunity and practically salivating at the mouth for War (lots of money to be made right enough). All very concerning with N McGarry acting as a distraction.

      At a time in our history when we REALLY need a strong Labour Leader, such as a Smith or Cook, we have copped booby prize Corbyn! It’s becoming clearer by the day that the saviour of the Labour Party is nothing less than a malingering wee wimp. I wonder how many of the individuals who flocked to support him will have decided to dump him now … overnight? Abstaining on voting against Trident renewal would be the last straw for them I would think. Absolutely unbelievable.

      Then there’s Scotland’s answer to Pinocchio (contesting the Baillie title), IAN MURRAY … ‘Scotland will be the most powerfully devolved country in the World’ … who informed the electorate pre-election that he was anti-Trident but has also abstained. So in reality Scotland ‘the most … World’ is lumbered with weapons of mass destruction that the population don’t want, most politicians don’t want, the Churches, Civic organisations etc don’t want. ‘Powerful’ and ‘Devolved’ are the last two words that come to mind in this case.

      As they sit on their hands saying nothing Kezia Dugdale has been yapping her head off as usual telling Scotland, via SLabs very own foghorn the Daily Record, that there should be ”Less Talk (ha, ha coming from her): More Action on saving Credit Cuts.” Now you’d think that this was being directed at her own Party for voting against the Scottish Government having control over Tax Credits, but no you’ve guessed it … it’s the SNP once again.

      As her cronies abstained and she bleated on pouring forth a load of old mathematical mince Nicola Sturgeon has been asking Dugdale, in Holyrood, to give up on the SNP ‘bbaad’ mantra and join her in putting up a fight against Osborne’s proposals, to no avail: Response smirks and grimaces. Anyway it doesn’t matter now, as it would seem that people like Nicola Sturgeon have made a positive difference, result being that Osborne has decided to carry on with the status quo. Labours behaviour during this period, in particular, will hopefully have proven to be a REAL eye opener for anyone thinking of voting for them next May.

    137. ArtyHetty says:

      Macart @2.46
      you are right, there are now more pressing issues to deal with. The corp media will do what they want no, big untruths on their front page, damage done.

      Any news on grizzly’s autumn attack on the poor especially in Scotland where they will never need our votes, yet?

    138. geeo says:

      Did anyone notice that the SNP have introduced a ten minute rule bill today, after the autumn statement debate ?

      Title of the Bill ?

      “Scottish votes for Scottish laws”

      2nd reading for March 2016.

      Gotta love the SNP ????????????

    139. @Petra

      There are a lot more cynics hiding in the woodwork and re Paris first on my list would be Mossad, MI5/MI6 with the CIA who have all been complicit in acts of terrorism around the globe.

    140. When the 56 were elected, surely we all realised the establishment weren’t going to take this lying down. As with the referendum, when every Whitehall ministry worked flat out to try to prevent us securing a Yes vote, surely these smears have Westminster’s fingerprints all over them.
      I have no knowledge whether Michelle or Natalie are guilty of anything, but certainly people usually only see the headlines, so the damage has been done, but then, did we really expect anything else. If so, then we have been incredibly naive. If we learned anything from the referendum campaign, it was that the Westminster establishment would go to any lengths to keep their control of Scotland, and it’s people.
      The reverse of course will apply if the two ladies are found innocent of any wrongdoing in relation to the alleged offences. That “news” will be buried by the media, no retractions, no apologies, and the same will go for the unionist politicians who have no shame, despite their near libellous pronouncements on these matters.

    141. David McDowell says:

      Re: the odd dropping of the story by the BUM (British Unionist Media).

      Perhaps the whole thing is an SNP sting operation?

      McGarry has a watertight explanation, the BUM have taken the bait hook line and sinker, and now she is going to sue all their lying asses off.

      Wouldn’t that be hilarious?!

    142. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne is taxing the Oil sector 75% that is why Oil revenues are falling and thousands of jobs are being lost.

      Osbourne a complete lying crook.

      The new Scottish Tax raising powers will be used to tax – tax evading Tories like Osbourne who are costing Scotland £Billions. Westminster policies are costing Scotland £Billions. More Oil and Gas has to be imported, putting up the balance of payments, and the Debt. Scotland is losing thousands of jobs in the Oil sector and the supply chain because of the illegal 75% tax. Destroying the British economy.

    143. Papadox says:

      @Robert Peffers 25/11/15 3:56pm

      Robert was there not a daily briefing of the “selected” hacks in Westminster?

      That doesn’t include the “secutity services” web of constant lies and made up stories for smear or encouragement to the “establishments” advantage and ” help” form the populace mindset.

      The privi council is another snake pit? You don’t get to many of them singing off tune! They either all seem to sing from HM songbook or keep stume? NO MATTER THEIR POLITICS. Are they on a promise or a threat, or is it both? OMERTÀ

    144. Petra says:

      @ Robert Peffers says at 3:56 pm ”I often feel the MSM act together and suspect they are fed stories from the Establishment who in turn get them from the so called security services. Looking at their track record of such cases as Willie McRae and other suspicious deaths of those the Establishment saw as their enemies gives cause for worry.”

      Spot on Robert. GCHQ will be scrutinising every SNP politician’s background looking for a nugget of scandal but hoping to find mother lode. No doubt keeping a beady eye on us too …. ‘Ooooh .. scary ….’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2p4J2bNTfk

      For Natalie McGarry ……

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtWBlDC2-ss

      http://www.gov.uk/guidance/defence-intelligence-services

    145. Ken500 says:

      Crowdfunder to sue the Record for damages. Put Foote and Clegg in the Dock for the VOW and the complete slanderous lies.

    146. Ken500 says:

      That WFI should be investigated someone with an axe to grind has leaked this nonsense to the Press.

    147. I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past I mean they lied about N.S. And French gate reported it without any proof ,now Nicola is a lawyer but to me it was an open and shut case and I could blog all night about other cases ? But I have said before the media are doing it because they are getting of with it without any challenge so I have to ask what’s going on?.

    148. Ken500 says:

      WFI were not conducting their business according to the usual Rules of Association. Two People are required to hold authority over accounts.

    149. Clootie says:

      The Daily Record prefers the role of leading the lynch mob to that of investigative journalism.

      The media have every duty to investigate such stories. However it should be done in a balanced and accurate way.

      Quite a contrast to the missing Labour Party funds as the Rev pointed out.

    150. Colin says:

      Even in the CommonSpace article it says “apparent” discrepencies….so no-one is saying is def missing. But what can you say about the Branch Office’s mouthpiece and its “stories” sic

      And any word on the “apparent” £10,000 missing form a certain Labour branch in Edinburgh that Miss( I let Jackie Baillie be my mouthpicece) Dugdale is affiliated to?

    151. David McDowell says:

      Blair – the SNP should do what I suggest above:

      Lure all the MSM liars in with fake details of an SNP MP involved in “shady dealings” – then shaft them all good style with defamation suits.

      Bye bye fabricated witch hunts against SNP MPs.
      From then on they’d have to come up with hard proof of any accusations they make against SNP MPs.

    152. Proud Cybernat says:

      There’s little point in suing the Idiot CorpMedia. They have in-house lawyers that they always run contentious stories by. These lawyers will tell them when their *ahem* stories are flying too close to the wind. But sometimes the editor will just run a contentious story anyway–it’s a measured risk. Over and above which, the bigger names in the Idiot Press have contingency funds for any such lawsuit that might come their way. Suing them will have little effect. We just have to make sure, via Social Media, that we expose their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs. It’s the only sure way of beating them.

    153. David McDowell says:

      Proud Cybernat –
      “Suing them will have little effect.”

      I disagree. It would have the very worthwhile effect of proving to the Scottish public that the MSM are deliberately fabricating stories to bring down SNP politicians.

    154. call me dave says:

      Meanwhile not in the Autumn Statement but announced on stock market this afternoon says Big Brian & Douglas Fraser.

      Peterhead carbon capture project money withdrawn!

      Another wound to hobble Scotland.

      SNP x 2 at election.

    155. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says: 25 November, 2015 at 1:47 pm:

      “You’re a historian, right?”

      Only so far as it affects Scotland and mainly Scottish politics.

      [BTW: This is my fourth attempt to answer as my posts keep disappearing.]

      “You know that in all societies, anywhere, at any given time, some subjects are taboo.”

      Actually I don’t. I know that all societies would like to make things they wish swept under the mat to be taboo but that such taboos have held back society many, many years.

      Without such taboos we would not have had such abuse scandals as Jimmie Savile or Rolf Harris and many, many innocent young lives would have NOT been destroyed.

      I>”Right now, the events of 9/11 are taboo in ‘Western’ society.”

      No they are not. In fact the event is quite often shoved up people’s noses in order to further some, or other, political view.

      “Does that entitle you to lash out (as you did in the previous thread) at people who go to the trouble of doing their own research?”

      Yes it does – and it gives YOU the same entitlement to lash out back at me if you so choose. To hell with taboos – get it off your chest it you want to for that is how to defeat taboos.

      “Thirty years ago, anyone in the independence movement who brought up the ‘alleged’ McCrone Report was dismissed with the same angry mockery you are demonstrating””

      Yes I know – for I was one of them. Thing was we were not pushing a conspiracy theory with no evidence we knew the truth.

      The McCrone report was written in 1974. by Professor Gavin McCrone. The eighteen-page report focused on the likely effects of North Sea oil revenue on the economic viability of an independent Scotland.

      In the February 1947 general election the SNP recorded 30% of the Scottish vote, (then our best ever result). We in the SNP actually knew the true facts and tried to get then across to the electorate. Remember the line, “It’s Scotland’s Oil”.

      The report was itself classified as, ‘secret’, and successive UK Governments kept it secret but we still knew the truth. The report then came to light in 2005 when the SNP eventually obtained several UK Government papers, under the Freedom of Information Act but only after the full provisions of the Act came into force on 1 January 2005. So why the hell do you think the SNP were demanding those particular Freedom of Information reports?

    156. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      “We just have to make sure, via Social Media, that we expose their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs. It’s the only sure way of beating them.”

      I agree.

      Making their name synonymous with inaccuracy and invention will reduce sales. It’s not so much a bias issue, as one of readers not being able to believe what they print.

      When they cease to be viable, they will fold.

    157. Macart says:

      @Petra 4.22

      Technically and by their lights they have delivered on the vow. It only ever promised three things. The Scottish parliaments permanence, unspecified ‘significant’ devolved powers and that a no vote would deliver faster safer change, end of.

      But then that’s not what the Scottish electorate were led to believe either by a certain Mr Broon or the massed ranks of the media. Devo Max, near federalism and in Mr Camerons case the quote was that ‘nothing in terms of devolution was off the table’. Endless speculation throughout the press and the broadcast media using the buzz words of the narrative ‘devo max’ were endlessly fed to the electorate in the run up to the vote and again who knew that Westminster’s idea of maximum devolution was not that expected by the public?

      No one in BT/HMGs ranks bothered to define just what their maximum super duper package entailed. So the public filled in the blanks and were presented with some tax collecting responsibilities and control over road signage. (woo hoo)

      The reality has proven to be a constitutional and fiscal car crash topping off a year of racist abuse, parliamentary neglect, austerity ideology, closures, job losses and the continuation of project fear.

      Not quite the near federal solution and powerhouse parliament as billed. The media and Labour especially, are shaking in their boots at the thought of the other boot dropping squarely on their heads.

      They should, because its going to and they have earned it.

    158. Capella says:

      Newly elevated Laura Keunssberg and her economic editor London pundits discuss the Autumn Statement.
      Dear Laura credits the kyboshing of Osborne’s Tax Credit cuts to everyone except the SNP. So Labour voted against them after all.

      “Big victory for the House of Lords, for the Labour Party and for some Tory backbenchers of course, including Boris Johnston.”
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34924374

    159. Thepnr says:

      @call me dave

      Yes I spotted the so called “ring-fenced” carbon capture project was to be scrapped. Announcement was made through the London Stock Exchange .

      Main effect other than the companies competing for the work is that the UK will NOT be able to meet it’s carbon emissions targets as this was an essential element in the plans.

      http://www.edie.net/news/6/DECC-axes–1bn-Carbon-Capture—Storage-fund-CCS/

    160. schrodingers cat says:

      ot
      in reply to angus Robertson at pmqs about the Russian jet shot down

      Cameron says, we don’t know what happened but turkey is allowed to protect itself…..

      uk increasingly seen as the bad guys defending the indefencable
      #istandwithrussia now trending

    161. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ David McDowell

      “I disagree. It would have the very worthwhile effect of proving to the Scottish public that the MSM are deliberately fabricating stories to bring down SNP politicians.”

      Who’s going to tell the public about any SNP lawsuit? The CorpMedia?

    162. Sinky says:

      Ian Murray says repeal of Tax credit cuts down to Labour.

      Labour’s last MP from Scotland abstained on 20th July rather than vote against the latest round of Tory welfare cuts.

      Ian Murray’s “green” credentials are also in tatters as he failed to vote on 14th July against George Osborne’s Climate Change Levy cuts to the Renewables sector which disproportionally hits Scottish businesses.

      During the election campaign Ian Murray made a big thing about his “anti-Trident” stance – but it turns out he’s never voted on that either.

      Ian Murray and his colleagues made matters worse when they didn’t even bother to turn up for the final day’s debate on the Finance Bill thus allowing the SNP to occupy the Labour benches are present themselves as the real Opposition Party.

      Voters who did not back the Tories at the general election deserve better than Labour’s refusal to oppose the Budget, the SNP said before staging a takeover of the Opposition frontbench on 21 July.

    163. muttley79 says:

      @Blair Paterson

      I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past I mean they lied about N.S. And French gate reported it without any proof ,now Nicola is a lawyer but to me it was an open and shut case and I could blog all night about other cases ? But I have said before the media are doing it because they are getting of with it without any challenge so I have to ask what’s going on?.

      The SNP would not get anything else done if they tried to correct every story that was nonsense/wrong, or even dodgy in the MSM! They are there to get elected, govern competently and campaign for independence for Scotland. Why on earth would and should the SNP take newspapers to court over bullshit stories, when the MSM are already losing, and have alienated so many customers in Scotland? I would rather the SNP concentrate on getting elected and advancing Scottish self government, than complain constantly about the corporate media. What would the point be anyway? Do you think the likes of Cochrane, Carroll, Torrance, Clegg, Martin, Farquarson, Massie et al would change their modus operandi because the SNP complained about them? No chance of that, in fact they would be delighted.

    164. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Macart

      “No one in BT/HMGs ranks bothered to define just what their maximum super duper package entailed.”

      The State Broadcaster had a good crack at defining Devo-Max just before IndyRef#1. See here: (from 7 min 04s):

      ‘The Vow: A Promise Broken’

      http://tinyurl.com/p5oryrc

    165. davidb says:

      Can I say a word on the Natalie saga?

      Yet again much space has been given to a discussion about a media story. No one has been charged. There is no case to answer. Our tuppence worth is just idle gossip. If there ever becomes a case to answer then we can all jump in. But for now it is premature and we are letting the biased media drive our agenda.

      Fu#k them. Liars all.

      My personal experience is that prior to May I was in Parkhead and wanted a Natalie badge. I loath(ed) Curran with such a passion. The election office had no badges left, so I handed over a tenner as a donation, telling them I hated that witch. They insisted on giving me a receipt. I told them I did not want one. They insisted.

      That smacks of a culture of probity. I do not believe Ms McGarry will have done anything wrong. Until there is a case to answer however, its best we just forget about it.

    166. call me dave says:

      @Sinky

      Ian Murray. Aye I heard him on the tax credits, all down to the labour and their campaign in Scotland.

      Can lie without blinking, or blushing. That’s yer news, as they say on radio shortbread.

    167. Kenny says:

      Just as well Gordon and Sarah Brown’s “charity” is wisely spending all amassed donations.

      If they weren’t, I don’t how I could live with the knowledge…

    168. call me dave says:

      A law unto ourselves: 🙂

      https://archive.is/DBdgX

    169. Andrew McLean says:

      Daily Record Headline Tomorrow

      LABOUR STOP TORRY CUTS

      Jubilant crowds lined the street of north Britain when our glorious MP traveled back from the center of the universe Westminster, where he had roundly demolished in scintillating debate the leader of the opposition Osborn and made him abolish Tax cuts!

      500 billion more money available now glorious labour under the guiding hand of our benevolent leader Dugdale Smash the SNP.

      Dugdale who got 18 holes in one the first time she played golf, who cured cancer with her touch, who invented the middle shed hair piece now worn by all women on the planet. Calls on all North Britain’s to praise the Party and Ingsoc!

      Oh glorious Labour we hold you close to our bossism, Dear Leader Dugdale! Benevolent benefactor! all hail the glorious party!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7J2Nnl7Ano

      REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
      WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,

    170. asklair says:

      When you go to court it takes money and a big chunk out of your life. I got shafted by my local planning department and I nearly took them to court. That would of taken much time and money I didn’t have, instead I battered in more applications and a heck of their time. I got a result without expensive legal costs.
      So what I am trying to say is the more distortion of truth by the MSM the more we can expose them for what they are to our gain without feeding the loaded legal system. Yes it does get you down but once you expose there lies to the 5% they are with you all the way. Who said it was going to be easy.

    171. Thepnr says:

      @muttley79

      “Why on earth would and should the SNP take newspapers to court over bullshit stories”

      Well, I think Blair Paterson has a valid point, possibly a successful court challenge “over bullshit stories” may act as a deterrent to the continual repeat of them.

      I think Rev Stu made the point previously when a simple solicitors letter from him to the Scotsman brought about a compensation payment and an apology in the paper, as small as it was it was still a victory over bullshit.

    172. Macart says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      Yep, the BBC were cheerleaders in the deception and that won’t be forgotten any time soon.

    173. bugsbunny says:

      Andrew McLean@2.49,

      As we all know Wikipedia can be edited by anyone with a login account. Guess what? It was last modified yesterday, 24th November 2015 at 9.53pm.

      So if not true, someone is deliberatly stirring the shite. I wonder who? mmm.

      Shower of Unionist bastards.

      Stephen.

    174. Ken500 says:

      The monies are all there. The finances add up. Someone is making up this nonsense,

      In goings £49,816 – 23p

      LESS

      £28,500
      +. 8,700
      = £37,200

      £2500
      + 2900
      +. 910
      + 3800
      = £10,110

      £4,000 + £8,000 = £12,000

      £37,200 + £10,110 = £47.310 + £4,000 carried down + £8,000 in reserve. There is more money in the Accounts. It is over budget?

    175. Gary45% says:

      Grousebeater@11.21am.
      Spot on regarding monies mysteriously appearing into the SNPs coffers.
      The main thing is, we all know what to expect on a daily basis.
      Heck we normally correctly guess what the establishments
      SNP bad headlines will be.
      I am genuinely surprised that the SNP have not been linked to ISIL, “seriously”
      “The UK establishment are really to thick for their own good.”
      A wee message for the establishment and their trolls,
      Keep making an ar*e of yourselves, it gives us good entertainment, certainly better than the EBC, but then again watching a gate swinging is more entertaining than that.

    176. Onwards says:

      Ken500 says:
      25 November, 2015 at 4:56 pm
      That WFI should be investigated someone with an axe to grind has leaked this nonsense to the Press.

      The minute it went to the police the story would be public.
      What’s annoying is that it even got to this point.

      I have no idea what happened, but I bet I can guess.
      McGarry will have spent some of the money without keeping accurate records of every transaction including some cash in hand deals. As one of the founders of WFI she will expect to be TRUSTED that she isn’t spending it personally on champagne and spa breaks.

      Maybe there has been a bit of petty bitchiness and jealousy amongst other members of Women for Independence. Maybe internal politics, maybe who got picked for SNP seats. It doesn’t matter.
      It makes absolutely NO sense that this wasn’t sorted out months ago – without getting to the point where it could cause damage to the SNP and the independence cause they all apparently believe in.

    177. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew McLean

      Typical of SLab, promise four tenants but deliver only three. Tut.

    178. Bob Mack says:

      At least we know where Osborne got the money for the tax credit relief. Scotlands budget is being cut in real terms by a similar amount.

    179. Thepnr says:

      Tenets not tenants. LOL

      All the tenants have been evicted as a result of having their housing benefit cut.

    180. Wuffing Dug says:

      The UK government is systematically and deliberately compromising north Sea infrastructure to hopefully prevent further investment should we become independent.

      Peterhead CCS now not going ahead.
      Cancelled near bid submittal stage.

      Bastirts.

      But at the end of the day, you can’t ship the most important assets away or shut them down.

      Let’s make those assets work for us and not them. Fuck them – SNP / SNP.

      Tick tock.

    181. Capella says:

      The SNP wouldn’t have to go to court over every mad newspaper scandal. Just pick one good one.

    182. @Sinky

      The Red Tory Turd Ian Murray will not be the only one seeking to take undeserved credit for the humiliating U turn from Osborne on tax credits from Nicola and the SNP.

      …victory has 100 fathers and defeat is an orphan….

    183. Wuffing Dug says:

      Seriously,

      Let’s all get together and go after the record and kezia dugdale.

      Let’s just get it done.

      Stigmatise the record at every opportunity. Make it a leper in Scotland.

    184. ArtyHetty says:

      So the tax credits cuts are not going to be implemented? Hmm, wonder what that was all about.

      What these gits in ukok do is as usual pretend to really crack the whip and everyone goes wtf they can’t do that, so they backtrack, a bit so everyone sighs a cry of relief. Oh these millionaires in parliament are not that bad after all, phew! I knew a well off family a few years ago who had a very good accountant and received tax credits, it’s not just the working poor who would have lost out.

      What of the mention of taking instead from Housing benefit?

    185. call me dave says:

      Strong words from Swinney re: Peterhead carbon capture £1bN competition money now cancelled.

      Disgraceful & ‘sneaky’ how it was announced. LOL John… ‘sneaky’ Well he’s a mild mannered man… 🙂

      He was on the radio shortbread but maybe his left eyebrow bristled as it raised a fraction.

    186. Ken500 says:

      There is no money missing from the accounts at all. In fact it looks like it over. If money was spent after the accounts were done? (April? Or at the beginning of the year)

      These ‘Reports’ are total nonsense. A disgrace, ill researched ‘Reporters’ that can’t add up.

    187. Foonurt says:

      Twaw doon, fur the meenit, in jist ower six months. Whaus next?

      Whit’s yoan psychology, goat tae say fur it. Baith female SNP MPs, in baith accused ah pauchlin/pruchin money.

      Roall oan Scoattish Independence.

    188. Robert Peffers says:

      @Papadox says: 25 November, 2015 at 4:46 pm:

      “Robert was there not a daily briefing of the “selected” hacks in Westminster? “

      Yes, Papadox, there are press briefings, but I base my thoughts on the fact that some organisation, with the time and resources to do so, must be there in order to investigate and get the information that someone is vulnerable to by got at. Things like hacked phones, computers and so on.

      “The privi council is another snake pit? You don’t get to many of them singing off tune!”

      Again the Privi lot includes such as Nicola Sturgeon.

      I worked as a civilian in the MOD, (Admiralty), at the leading edge of not only electronics but also Nuclear and other forms of Radiation, Biological and Chemical weapons detection. I thus had to have top security screening to visit top security establishments.

      I have thus been to just about all top secret scientific and electronic establishments and have a bit of knowledge of how certain parts of the security services work, (and it is not pretty).

    189. Ken500 says:

      The £4,000 carried down could be included in the reserves, £8,000

      If the figures being quoted are correct it means the accounts are over.

      Unless money has been spent after the accounts were made up.

      The figures don’t add up.

    190. Thepnr says:

      For anyone just reading after work and have not had the time to read all the posts, it’s well worth reading Scott Minto’s posts at 12:02 and 12:12 regarding how the numbers so far reported appear to stack up.

      Strange now, that this has apparently gone all quiet rather than the scandal of the year hoped for in certain quarters? Certainly it hasn’t followed the pattern of the previous “scandal” as reported in BUM.

    191. Foonurt says:

      Izit, anithurr actress thit wiz ah nurse, in ah fuckin nurse thit wiz an actress. Bit wisnae.

    192. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers (5.22) –

      Thanks for the reply. Appreciated.

      For what it’s worth, I don’t feel that I have anything to get off my chest, and stand by what I wrote.

      In any event, let’s just agree to disagree.

    193. john king says:

      call me dave
      “Strong words from Swinney re: Peterhead carbon capture £1bN competition money now cancelled.”

      That I predicted in October 2011 when Cameron removed the investment in Longannet power stations research into CC the two remaining contenders were Peterhead and Drax power station in North Yorkshire, I always said Drax would win.

      I made the point that Cameron would rather lose Scotland than set us loose with a technology which would have made Scotland the world leader in carbon capture, which would have had the capacity to make Scotland an immensely wealthy country, the prediction was that a country with the capacity to take ALL of Europes carbon would have made Scotland a minimum of £10.00 per cubic metre for taking and injecting the carbon into the spent wells in the north sea, which in turn would have dwarfed the income from the oil itself,

      Cameron wasn’t having that!

    194. Fran says:

      @ Foonurt

      The Express did have a go at the MP from Galloway with the trading standards but made a pure mess o it, there was nae case to answer.

      We’ve had the London Mansion scandal and wee Mharies tweets when she was at school.

      Without a doubt they will go through all our MPs and the ultimate prise will be ane o oor big guns.

    195. Ruby says:

      Ken500 says:
      25 November, 2015 at 6:51 pm
      The £4,000 carried down could be included in the reserves, £8,000

      Ruby replies

      I much prefer the term carried forward. Is carried down now more common than carried forward?

      What are the reserves in everyday language?

    196. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 25 November, 2015 at 4:59 pm:

      “I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past? …

      Perhaps I can enlighten you, Blair. Just look at the way voting intention statistics are slowly climbing in favour of the SNP. They have never had so many card carrying members nor such a wide base of support.

      All of which indicates they must be doing something right but they really are not doing anything so different from what they have always done. So perhaps we must look elsewhere for answers – but where?

      I believe the answer is not so much what the SNP are doing but what their opponents may, or may not be doing. Perhaps even a combination of the two.

      Napoleon, one of the great strategists, once said, “Never interrupt your opponents when they are making bad mistakes”. So if the SNP are not doing much that differs from what they did before. What may their opponents be doing wrong that is turning voters against them?

      Now do you get why they are not doing anything about them? The more dirty tricks the Unionists pull, the more people see them as the enemy and not the Better Together friends they claimed to be.

      The MSM are losing their customers in spades and the tide is flowing in the right direction so, like the old football phrase beloved of managers, “Never change a winning team, and never change a winning strategy”.

      Just think about it – if the YES movement becomes as bad as the opposition then the voters will see all parties as, “Being all the same”. Just see how the WFI have come under suspicion and probably lost support over this last episode? Mind you it could all reverse very quickly if someone was actually found guilty.

    197. galamcennalath says:

      ArtyHetty says:
      at 2:23 pm
      “noticed ‘Altered state, part 3? now showing over at Wee Ginger Dug, I am gonna watch it later.”

      Got round to watching it. A very depressing picture is painted, especially by Bateman. Sheesh, I don’t want to wait decades! Scotland will be f*cked in decades of WM colonial / no mandate rule.

      Paul Cavanagh made a very good point – next phase is to remove Unionist politics and politicians from Scotland. Put the politics of Scotland on a different course and make Unionism irrelevant. Yes, 2006/2007, we need to do that.

      My own view is that we need DevoMuchMore to be recognised as a dead duck then the choice is DevoFA or Indy. Add cuts, austerity, Trident, wars, WM mismanagement, then converts will be made and a clear majority will want Indy.

    198. call me dave says:

      @john king

      I agree, they were against it then so there was no chance now.

      They are cutting off all initiatives in Scotland as fast as they can and unless we are successful in the next round of elections they might just pip us at the post!

      SNP x 2

    199. David McDowell says:

      Proud Cybernat at 5:36pm

      Who’s going to tell the public about “their lying and hypocrisy wherever and whenever it occurs”?

      People on twitter?

      You can “expose” them using social media but it won’t stop it.

      To stop it you make sure you have a watertight case, lure them into defaming someone, then sue them.

      After that they can’t just make stuff up because it might be another defamation trap.

    200. liz says:

      Wonder if there is any way the SG could buy Longannet as it is closing so could they get it for a nominal fee?

      It has been said, work and act as if you are already independent, and the rest will follow.

      Then try to get co-operation from other countries to continue with CC.

    201. Andrew McLean says:

      Thepnr 6:12

      dam you there are four tenants, how many do you see you reactionary dog! Four tenants room 101 for you, to much victory gin has addled your love of the party!

    202. Dr Jim says:

      I have been out shopping all day but I thought I’d share a wee experiment off the cuff survey with you, completely non scientific I should add

      I decided to engage in conversation every shop assistant and as many passing customers as I could, and the question I asked in as comedic and jovial way I could was:

      Do you get in in time for John McKay

    203. Thepnr says:

      Has the bullshit emanating from the BUM been nipped at the bud?

    204. crazycat says:

      @ Andrew McLean

      Seeing as you’re about – re your post at 2.49 and the Tory councillor. It’s true.

      Not something I could manage, but clearly they can.

    205. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew McLean

      LOL loved the first three, just desperate to know the fourth 🙂

    206. Macart says:

      @John King

      Yep, remember that. Huhn wasn’t it?

      Wasn’t there supposedly some stupid re-tender process on the CC front, which frankly had bollox written all over it? Either way, the writing was on the wall for CC in Scotland. Far as HMG was concerned it was a twofer. Easy cut to make and stick one in the SGs eye and flagship renewables policy at the same time.

    207. frogesque says:

      @ liz 7.36

      Or, the crowdfunder to end all crowdfunders, WoS Power!

    208. john king says:

      Macart says
      “Yep, remember that. Huhn wasn’t it?”

      Correct, he said the pipe would be too long!
      But apparently its not as far from North Yorkshire! Who knew?
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-15371258

    209. Andrew McLean says:

      Thepnr
      You reactionary dog you hater of our glorious leader dugdale you will learn the four tenants REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
      WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,

      There are four tenants you lover of our enemy SNP! You have read the forbidden little blue book!
      There is no escape for you! Resistance to the party is futile you will love the party the party is all ! Now how many do you see ! How many!

    210. Dr Jim says:

      Out shopping all day so I decided to do a non scientific survey amongst shop workers and customers in a friendly Christmassy kind of way, and the questions I asked were

      Q1 Do you get home in time for John McKay news
      Q2 Do you like that Jackie Bird on Reporting Scotland

      To Question 1 of about the twenty five or so folk I spoke to
      not one single person even knew who John McKay was or even watched Scotland tonight
      Strangely enough some men knew who Raman Bardwaj was, for those who don’t that’s the sports guy

      Q2 Of the same amount of people five women knew Jackie Bird because she’s the one who does the New Year show but don’t watch Reporting Scotland
      Two men admitted to knowing who she was but that was because she used to be a bit of a looker when she was young

      Now I don’t know really what this means but I do know what it doesn’t mean
      The SNP Baad message, whether anybody thinks it’s working or not, what it’s not is being listened to on Reporting Scotland and Scotland Tonight by working people, they’re too busy and don’t care

      So the Telly media will know this too, which leads me to think they are particularly targeting older folk who they know to be definite voters and with respect to us oldies but many in our age group are more gullible

      Tomorrow maybe a pie eating survey on Jackie Baillie, I’ll start with Greggs and Aulds

    211. john king says:

      Andrew McLean
      ” REMEMBER THE FOUR TENANTS OF OUR PARTY
      WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH,”

      HAHAHA
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Df191WJ3o

    212. X_Sticks says:

      Macart says:

      “The Scottish parliaments permanence”

      I believe that was one of the reasons that the lords kicked the bill into touch. They were worried it would undermine the sovereignty of parliament. There was a brief mention of it somewhere on the radio, but never mentioned again. I think Lang may have been the one who brought it up, but I can’t find anything to back it up.

      @call me dave

      “radio shortbread” Like that. Using it 😀

      It looks like the Natalie thing has been dropped rather sharply. Perhaps it’ll turn out to be fluff.

      John King nails the fact that WM has crippled carbon capture and renewables industries where Scotland could have become the world leader. They don’t want any success here. They don’t want any competition. Better to lose a potential industry than for Scotland have a lead.

    213. Sinky says:

      Why did Labour MP Marie Rimmer’s Glasgow Court appearance to-day not make BBC TV news (didn’t see STV news) particularly as she hasn’t been asked to resign the Labour whip and was recently appointed to the UK Justice and Human Rights Committee?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34923246

      More double standards by Scotland’s media

    214. Andrew McLean says:

      Dr Jim
      My money was on “I don’t watch Dr Who” ?

    215. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew McLean

      I have been blind, I see four. There always were four, I did not look.

    216. Andrew McLean says:

      Crazycat

      No comment! Nuts in vice due to last comment on attractiveness of opposition leaders!
      Ouch

    217. HandandShrimp says:

      Dr Jim

      I think the fact that so few people knew who Kezia was in the recent poll indicates that most people do not watch or take in political news. Let’s face it, watching the news is akin to sticking your arm in a wood chipper. It isn’t something that you would do voluntarily.

    218. Andrew McLean says:

      Thepnr
      Their do you not feel the love of the party! Isn’t it fantastic isn’t Our Glorious Dugdale just wonderful
      Now drink your victory gin, you have been saved, just Wright down all the names you remember who have read the banned little blue book and you can go home!

    219. Dorothy Devine says:

      Sinky , it was mentioned by JOHN MACKAY at the tail end of the “news” on STV – resigning anything like the whip, the Justice committee or expenses.

      One rule for …….the BUMS.

    220. john king says:

      Dr Jim
      “watching the news is akin to sticking your arm in a wood chipper. It isn’t something that you would do voluntarily.”

      So why do WE do it to ourselves?
      #keep the faith

    221. call me dave says:

      @X_Sticks

      @call me dave

      “radio shortbread” Like that. Using it 😀
      —————————————————————
      You’ll be on the third bite then as I’ve pinched the biscuit from somebody who coined it a couple of threads ago! 🙂

      But it nails it don’t you think!

      Oh well back to the footie!

    222. Gerry says:

      Wuffing Dug says:
      25 November, 2015 at 6:25 pm
      Seriously,
      Let’s all get together and go after the record and kezia dugdale.
      Let’s just get it done.
      Stigmatise the record at every opportunity. Make it a leper in Scotland.

      ——————

      Count me in. But we need to add the good old conservatives.
      Here’s a fresh one they laid today, surely is actionable. He doesn’t talk generally about the SNP but names NS and JS. The article appears in the telegraph but more importantly on the scottish conservatives site.

      .
      From http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2015/11/snp-must-apologise-for-deceit-on-oil-revenues/

      “Given these latest figures, Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney should show they are prepared to move on by apologising for what was a deliberate and conscious decision to deceive people.”
      Murdo Fraser, the Scottish Tory finance spokesman.

    223. john king says:

      Or handandshrimp even. 🙂

    224. Tam Jardine says:

      David McDowell

      I think this it is just a matter of time before one of the SNP targets steps forward with a watertight case and tears one of these papers a new one. I can’t wait. When Natalie is exonerated (as I feel she surely will be) I’d happily punt £50 towards an action to bring those in the Record or whatever to book.

      I am sure there will be others who feel likewise.

      In fact, if such a crowd-fund existed to create a fighting fund for future actions of this sort I would happily throw something in. Christ, it would be good to have 10K, 20K or whatever sitting there ready to take one of these titles down a peg or two.

      No idea how much these things cost but the Carmichael case is the way forward. Time to get off the back foot.

      liz

      Re Longannet- I love the idea… although my very basic understanding is that the excessive tarrifs the plant faces for being so far from london make it extremely expensive to connect to the grid.

      If that is the case then I would like to see some creative thinking from the Scottish government… I understand there was a proposal for CCS for the plant but funding was cancelled by you-know-who. We are obviously moving away from this type of power station but the site is pretty huge and I can’t believe the way forward is simply to de-industrialise.

    225. Gary45% says:

      So the carbon capture programme, has been killed off in Scotland.
      There we have it Scotland, Ripped Off from the English and officially turned into a nuclear dumping ground thanks to the English.
      I am not being racist, just stating a FACT.
      They had the chance to FU*K the Tories, by voting labour in the GE.
      But under no circumstances would accept an alliance with the SNP.
      The bald scouse TWAT from UKIP says the Scots always take, take, take.
      I think he means his fellow tossers.
      As already posted lets get Longannet and Peterhead,but with the help of the Russians.
      We are treated like shit from the establishment, so lets do a deal with Putin.

    226. K1 says:

      Bearing in mind the meaning of ‘flogging a dead horse’.

      Let’s remind ourselves of Kezia Dugdale on the 5th November berating Nicola at FMQ’s re tax credits. Her whining insistence that the FM should outline their fiscal response to Osbourne’s tax credit cuts.

      The FM consistently replying that ‘we will wait and see’ as these cuts had not as yet been announced and that the SNP where in fact pushing for Osbourne to drop these planned cuts, and also reprimanding Kezia’s Labour for their abstentions and support of the cuts, whilst stating the obvious: that Labour should be fighting against the Tories with the SNP instead of indulging their tribal hatred.

      GIRFUY Labour party. They must be greetin’ their eyes oot, having just had their stick taken away by Osbourne’s U turn of Tax credit cuts.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T88ohm2C3sI

      Oh…and it’s worth a rewatch just for Nicola’s slap down of ‘Baroness Goldie’. Quality comeback on stilts!

      Remember SNP/SNP. These idiots cannot be allowed to regain any kind of foothold within Scotland. Ever. Again.

    227. Ken500 says:

      The reserves are the money held in the account for unexpected expenses. They are not designated for any known expense but they are (excess) funds kept in reserve.

      If there are monies brought in but are over the spending (out goings).They register in the accounts (for the next year) as money brought forward. Ie a new accounts year is started afresh. The reserves are kept in another accounting column. The money brought forward could be counted in the reserves.

      If the figures being quoted are accurate. The finances are in surplus. There has been more monies available, than spent. ie there is a surplus not a deficit i.e. the money is over, not under. There could be expenditure spent but not deducted after the end of year accounts was balanced. To account for the surplus.

      Doubt if an accountant has reconciled these accounts.

    228. Karmanaut says:

      O/T Can anyone help?

      I remember during indyref seeing a graphic showing how Scotland within the UK benefited from the £460+bn in national infrastructure spending from combined UK taxes.

      However, the ONLY project in Scotland was the carbon capture scheme, which was for £1bn. I remember thinking that it was a tiny share of the pot.

      So now that ccs has been cancelled, our share must be zero.

      Does anyone recall that graphic and know where to find it? I can’t find it anywhere. It would make a powerful before/after image for sharing.

    229. Ken500 says:

      It might be possible to buy Longannet and get an EU Grant for CCS.

      The Tories are closing down all coal production. It will have to be imported, putting up the balance of payments and the debt.

      Thry intend building Hicklry Nuclear Station £25Billion (the cost will probably escalate and be £Billion over budget and time) Thry are building it by using borrowed money from the Chinese. putting up the debt. When there are more credible, less expensive alternatives,

      The Tories have deliberately ruined the Scottish Oil sector by taxing it at 75%. Losing millions of jobs. More Oil & Gas will have to be imported. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and increasing the debt.

      The Tories have reduced the renewable investment so more fuel will have to imported, it will be more expensive, putting up the balance of payment deficit and increasing the debt.

      Odbourne is reported to have cut the Scottish budget 5% but it could be more. Especially with the illegal taxes on the Oil sector. Money spent on Trident and no development of the Oil in the West, cuts on Renewables, illegal attacks in the Middle East etc. increased Military spending £12Billion which could be better spent.

    230. Ruby says:

      Ken500 says:
      25 November, 2015 at 8:37 pm
      The reserves are the money held in the account for unexpected expenses. They are not designated for any known expense but they are (excess) funds kept in reserve.

      Ruby replies

      Cheers Ken. Reserve or not reserve it is still part of the bottom line.

      It’s all quite strange. It sounds as if WFI have called in the police to help them balance their books.

    231. Gary45% says:

      I forgot to add, if this sorry mess becomes reality, the SNP will get the blame for having the cheek to get the Referendum.
      The usual bitter together voters will fall for the establishments lies.
      When in reality the SNP are the only party with a true Vision for Scotland.
      I think its time for the SNP to put the boot into the establishment.

    232. cearc says:

      Thepnr,

      I think you’ll find the fourth Tennent in the fridge.

      Slainte.

    233. Ken500 says:

      There is no £460+ spending in infrastructure from UK Taxes.

      It was a con trick by Danny Alexander. There was £466 raised in all UK of tax revenues – for all expenditure. Pensions/Benefits/NHS/Education etc. To cover all costs. Danny Alexander tried to say that was all being made available to spend on infrastructure.

      They were also borrowing another £90Billion which was being spent in the rest of the UK. Scotland was raising £54Billion (of the £466Billion) and getting £54Billion back Another £9Billion+ ? (part of the £90Bilion) was being put on the Scottish account, although it was not borrowed or spent in Scotland.

    234. Petra says:

      @ Peffers says at 7:19 pm … Blair .. “I have stated before on numerous occasions I can’t for the life of me understand why the S.N.P. Have not sued these people in the past? ………… ”Perhaps I can enlighten you, Blair. Just look at the way voting intention statistics are slowly climbing in favour of the SNP. They have never had so many card carrying members nor such a wide base of support.”

      I understand that it would be ridiculous for the SNP to try to correct every story that was nonsense / wrong or even dodgy in the CorpMedia, but I totally agree with individuals on here who are keen to target ONE newspaper and sue them if Michelle and / or Natalie is / are found to be innocent … It may make the others think twice before they put pen to paper.

      ”Just think about it – if the YES movement becomes as bad as the opposition then the voters will see all parties as, “Being all the same”.”

      Robert I don’t think that ‘outing’ a bunch of liars would be considered to be ”as bad as the opposition” at all. Why would anyone think that? And don’t forget that not everyone is on the ball like Wings visitors. Hundreds of thousands of people seem to have been duped and are no doubt still being duped by the Idiots Media. Allowing them to smear one person after another, if they are innocent, will be having an impact on people who are undecided (I know some yes voters too) and if it is allowed to go on may eventually have a devastating effect.

      IMO we are starting to come across as a bunch of wimps for example when they are demanding that Nicola Sturgeon suspend individuals she should highlight Davidsons case. When they mention missing money she should enquire about Labours missing £10,000. When they start spouting dire Scottish Education and NHS statistics in Westminster our SNP MPs should retaliate by quoting the relative, HORRENDOUS English statistics and when they say that the Scots are subsidised they should have an off pat answer ready to throw back at them, not just sit there shaking their heads. Just some of many examples by the way.

      And I wont go into it on here but do you actually know how many card carrying members the SNP have now?

      @ Macart says at 5:30 pm …. ”Petra technically and by their lights they have delivered on the vow. It only ever promised three things. The Scottish parliaments permanence, unspecified ‘significant’ devolved powers and that a no vote would deliver faster safer change, end of.”

      Maybe I should have said Smith Commission / Vow, Macart. Additionally as far as I can make out the Scottish Parliament isn’t permanent at all, like Westminster, as they currently say that if a majority of Scots vote to ‘abolish’ it … it will be abolished.

      @ cynicalHighlander says at 4:33 pm …. ”Petra there are a lot more cynics hiding in the woodwork and re Paris first on my list would be Mossad, MI5/MI6 with the CIA who have all been complicit in acts of terrorism around the globe.”

      And of course Saudi’s GIP comes to mind too. Giving us all the gip right enough, lol.

      http://intelnews.org/2014/04/17/01-1457/#more-10964

      http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/Saudi%20Strategic%20Doctrine%20-%20web.pdf

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_agencies

    235. Ruby says:

      call me dave says:
      25 November, 2015 at 8:30 pm
      @X_Sticks

      @call me dave

      “radio shortbread” Like that. Using it 😀
      —————————————————————
      Ruby replies

      TUT! Noooooooo! that is not good.

      I hate hate hate to see Scottish terms like shortbread, haggis, tartan, whisky etc used in a pejorative manner.

      I love shortbread! How about just calling it

      Radio Biscuit?

    236. Ken500 says:

      Quoted ‘carried down’ because that was as stated in the reference. ‘Carried forward’ is the the term usually used.

      Some of these fringe organisations (Green?) are damaging the Independence movement. They are more interested in making a name for themselves (exhibitionists) They are untrustworthy. They are not to be trusted but damage the Independence movement. They act a fifth columnists, more interested in obtaining power and promoting themselves than genuinely interested in Independence.

    237. Ken500 says:

      The £54Billion only included low receipts from Oil. Scotland could be still raising more from other sources – renewables, exports, tourism etc. The new accounts will be done after April. March the end of the tax year.

      The UK is now raising £515Billion revised in the UK accounts. – UK Gov Official website. – Google (or wherever) statistics. – ‘Total taxes raised’. It is among the documents.

    238. garles says:

      Ken500 says:
      25 November, 2015 at 8:59 pm

      It might be possible to buy Longannet and get an EU Grant for CCS.

      The Tories are closing down all coal production. It will have to be imported, putting up the balance of payments and the debt.

      They intend building Hinkley

      KEN
      I am currently at Hinkley the amount of money sloshing around is unbelievable.new roads etc are being built Bridgwater in Somerset is unbelievable but canny see much building of the new nuke station but plenty of groundworks

    239. Lollysmum says:

      Karmanaut
      Re the infrastructure info. Could it have been one of Business for Scotland’s slides? I vaguely recollect seeing something like that & expect it would be on BfS website

    240. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      Party politics aside. If a newspaper printed blatant lies about me and in effect slandered me resulting in a loss of reputation, job or business prospects then I believe that if affordable I MUST fight for my reputation. Damned if I don’t, so what’s to lose?

      Wouldn’t bother if I hadn’t a case and their report was correct, however that’s for the individual and their solicitor to ascertain. Is the story a pack of lies or not?

      For a high profile case, can’t see crowdfunding being an issue.

      I would like the printers and writers of unproven allegations to realise that they may be asked to account for themselves if what they print proves to be unfounded and mere speculation resulting in some detriment to that individual.

      There are laws there for that very purpose, I believe in testing those laws where it is warranted. I don’t want to shut down the freedom to comment and provide information to the public by the press.

      Quite the opposite, facts are fine, FACTS, “apparent discrepancies” is meaningless.

    241. Macart says:

      @X_Sticks

      Posted this a couple of threads back, but I’ve made bold the pertinent lines.

      There are a few very telling quotes from Lang in that piece, but the killer blow comes from Mr Swinnie’s office at the very end.

      ‘The House should consider whether to delay progress of the bill until a new Memorandum of Understanding is published setting out how the UK and Scottish governments will work together to manage areas of shared and concurrent powers, and how they will resolve disputes between their administrations.’

      “Ultimately, the key vote that matters will be in the Scottish Parliament – not in the unelected House of Lords – and we will never support anything which sells Scotland short.”

      Kinda let’s you know where both sides are coming from and make no mistake there ARE sides here. Those who are fighting for our sovereignty and those who are fighting for parliamentary sovereignty. Those who are fighting to retain ultimate control over our futures and believe such power should rest in their hands and those who wish to return that future and those powers to our care.

    242. call me dave says:

      Marie Rimmer, 67, allegedly assaulted Patricia McLeish trial date set.

      https://archive.is/99a1l

      Och Ruby…are you Morag’s cousin…I’ll think about, I don’t like shortbread or black bun or Dundee Cake or Tunnock’s tea cakes.

      ‘Evil Empire biscuit’ has possibilities naw! But I might lapse so no promises. 🙂

    243. Karmanaut says:

      Thanks for the replies. I’ll keep looking.

    244. crazycat says:

      @ Karmanaut

      I also remember that map; I’ve found this:

      http://www.building.co.uk/infrastructure-pipeline-2015/map

      which looks a bit like what I remember but is probably not the exact thing, because it is interactive and the original one wasn’t.

      This:
      http://www.building.co.uk/infrastructure-pipeline-2015/home/

      explains the map.

      There are also maps on pages 15, 21 and 31 of this:
      https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/381884/2902895_NationalInfrastructurePlan2014_acc.pdf

      which refers to 2014.

      Peterhead CCS is included in the map on page 31, which might be the one I saw; it does look vaguely familiar.

    245. Ruby says:

      Ken500 says:
      25 November, 2015 at 9:24 pm
      Quoted ‘carried down’ because that was as stated in the reference. ‘Carried forward’ is the the term usually used.

      Ruby replies

      I realised that but I thought perhaps carried down was the current term being used.

      Are there a lot of Green Party members in WFI?

    246. Thepnr says:

      @Ken500

      “Some of these fringe organisations (Green?) are damaging the Independence movement. They are more interested in making a name for themselves (exhibitionists) They are untrustworthy. They are not to be trusted but damage the Independence movement. They act a fifth columnists, more interested in obtaining power and promoting themselves than genuinely interested in Independence.”

      Ken I am well aware of your grievance with the Greens, no idea why and none of my business. These little rants that you occasionally have come across to me at least as more damaging.

      I have absolutely no idea of how many Green or other “fringe” party voters or members support Independence, just as I have no idea how many SNP, Tory, Lib or Labour voters or members support Independence.

      Only thing that matters to me is not their party but their support of Independence, nothing else at all.

      Please don’t exclude anyone by implying they are “damaging the Independence movement”. That sounds, well just too insular. sounds

    247. Ruby says:

      call me dave says:

      ‘Evil Empire biscuit’ has possibilities naw! But I might lapse so no promises. 🙂

      Ruby replies

      I’ll be keeping an eye on you!
      (two fingers pointing to my eyes)

      Radio Biscuit is perfect!

      It could mean Empire Biscuit or it could be ‘takes the ****** biscuit’

      You’re a bit fussy! Do you like Cream Crackers & Rice Cakes?

      Did you hear about the fight in the biscuit tin?

      The bandit hit the penguin over the head with a club, tied him to a wagon wheel with a blue ribbon and made his breakaway in a taxi!

    248. heedtracker says:

      Sadly no rancid The Graun monstering of McGarry today, tomorrow hopefully.

      Instead, its just another UKOK tub thumping propagandist in action, explaining why its NOW Scots oil, when revenue is low.

      When revenues are high, its UKOK oil, but low barrel prices mean end of days for their Scotland region. How on earth Norway copes without UKOK red and blue toryboys to run their oil industry to shit, especially when Scotland’s had absolutely no say in NOT Scots oil ever, is Another BetterTogether rule Britannia mystery.

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/25/nicola-sturgeon-faces-5-cut-to-holyrood-budget-over-five-years

      “How we robbed Scotland blind of her resources, then Project Fear the living shit out of them with what’s left” in red tory world this time.

    249. Angra Mainyu says:

      Okay I have a question for everybody.

      As you all know, the SNP have said an out vote in the EU referendum would be a trigger for another referendum on Scottish independence. I’m an enthusiastic supporter of the EU and most certainly want to stay in. I always want another referendum for us.

      Now then, should I (we) campaign on Twitter etc. to remain in Europe or campaign to get us out?

      Seems to me that I should be making the case for leaving the EU and encouraging others to vote for leaving so that we get another referendum up here — ideally, maybe, we’d talk non-Scottish into voting to leave the EU and talking Scottish people to stay in.

      You might think ‘why worry?’ and ‘it’s unlikely that it will make a difference either way’. I’d agree in regards to most of you, but I have thousands of followers on Twitter and am a real big shot whose opinions are valued…

    250. James Anderson says:

      Large number of Bunionist trolls with fake accounts currently polluting Natalie McGarry’s Facebook page. The favoured line for SNPouters seems to be that the Sunday Times has more dirt on this and other SNP MPs. It is the unholy alliance evolving between the DR/Trinty and Murdoch’s scandal sheets that is creating an atmosphere where invented numbers and non-referenced quotes are passed off as fact. Groupthink on steroids.

    251. heedtracker says:

      BBC attack at full UKOK hue etc At least May will be interesting to see if this hysteria will get Sturgeon out.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34926904

      Labour MSP Jackie Baillie called for party leaders to “apologise to the Scottish people for misleading everybody on oil”.
      Ms Baillie, the party’s public services spokeswoman at Holyrood, said: “(Deputy First Minister) John Swinney promised Scots oil revenues of £8bn in the year we would have left the UK.
      “The reality is that they will be just £130m.
      “These figures expose the stark reality of the consequences of the SNP’s plan for separation.”
      ‘Attempt to hoodwink’

      BBC Scotland radio news teatime crew tonight were pretty depressed at Osborne U turn.

      Taylor and Fraser really cheesed off at losing giant tax credit stick to beat the shit of SNP, Taylor said SNP in Holyrood “will be punching the air” tonight, Labour had been “polishing a big shiny hook but Osborne had let Sturgeon off that big shiny hook”

      Fraser tried to cheer him up but their £400 million studio was clearly back to square 1 again. Cheer up Taylor, Fraser chided, there’s no oil left, they’re fcuked, dont cry man. I am not making up this shite, Taylor’s words, choking up, boohoo.

      Such is BBC Scotland. creepy.

    252. Thepnr says:

      “You might think ‘why worry?’ and ‘it’s unlikely that it will make a difference either way’. I’d agree in regards to most of you, but I have thousands of followers on Twitter and am a real big shot whose opinions are valued…”

      Classic! Your not Scottish Angra surely? Doesn’t sound like it LOL

    253. Thepnr says:

      One way NOT to win over friends or foe in Scotland is bumping your gums hahaha. Sorry, but you just make me laugh.

    254. Al-Stuart says:

      Just been to the newsagent and seen that friend of the Daily Record – The Daily Mail’s front page blast at the SNP and by implication the 50% of we Scots who voted this way in May 2015 – “SNP IN CHAOS” screams the front page of the Daily Mail. Aye right. Forgive my parody, but the DM has as much accuracy as the following example of their nasty stuff. Imagine these headlines…

      DAILY MAIL IN CHAOS

      By Angus Rodent, Chief Coffee Maker

      OWNER’S WORRIED ABOUT BANKRUPTCY

      In a dramatic turn of events, staff at this once prominent organ are worried about what their boss Putrid O’Dacre will do next to steer this wretched rag into oblivion. O’Dacre has form for chaos, doom and obscenity. He routinely calls his staff c*nts (source: https://archive.is/j02El#selection-2237.709-2237.980).

      BLOODSUCKING

      Daily Mail boss O’Dacre has been personally draining our newspaper of £1,800,000 every year WITHOUT RECEIPTS (help ma boab, call the rozzers) as reward for our circulation going through the floor, one agitated hack cried as he contemplated his P45.

      There is truth in what this poor journo says. The Daily Mail has crashed from it’s 2005 circulation of 2,409,121 to a futile 2015 figure of 1,657,867. That’s over 30% decline in Daily Mail circulation. All on O’Dacre’s watch. It’s us poor workers that’ll be going to the Municipal Home For Indigent & Poor Ex-Phone Hackers. Who will look after us? Oh the humanity of it all. What could we have done wrong to deserve this?

      SCOTLAND KILLS THE DAILY MAIL

      Its far worse for our magnificent Jockistan version – the McDaily McMail. Those ungrateful haggis munchers really don’t like us. I don’t know why says Angus McRodent chief scribbler and emeritus professor of Hans Christian Andersen Trolloversity. They buy just 113,771 copies of our lovely newspaper each day in Jockland. That’s 0.02% penetration. You’d think with over 5,000,000 of those sweaties up there, they could cough up for more of our true and delightful stories.

      LIES, DAMNED LIES & THEN THE DAILY MAIL

      To add to the RAMPANT CHAOS AT THE DAILY MAIL even the PCC think Angus McRodent and his organ are telling porkies.

      “The Daily Mail is none too fussy about the facts. In the files of the Press Complaints Commission, you will find records of 687 complaints against the Mail. The number far exceeds that for any other British newspaper: 394 complaints against the Sun, 221 against the Telegraph, 115 against the Grauniad” (source: https://archive.is/j02El#selection-1999.0-2023.15).

      —————

      The above is written from frustration at the over-rated Daily McMail toilet full of lies. Ironically all of the above is based on the truth. Anyone reckon the Daily Mail will go out of business? I am willing to put £20 on it going the way of News of The World within 5 years. That is based on the wretched articles, lying headlines and dreadful circulation decline.

      Any takers to my bet of Daily Mail going under?

    255. @Angra Mainyu

      I think we should all wait to see how Nicola plays it,she has never done the wrong thing for Scotland yet.

      Just tell your thousands of followers to Trust in Nicola.

    256. G. Campbell says:

      A billion pounds and 1,000 jobs for the North East of Scotland at risk. Thank christ we followed the P&J’s advice and voted No.

      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8jzbth-vLGU/VlY1MSOJ7wI/AAAAAAAAAWE/NjbKGNabguY/s1600/carbon-capture.jpg

    257. Tam Jardine says:

      Angra Mainyu

      I think the SNP and the rest of us whose priority is independence for Scotland need to go all out for an In vote.

      Worst case scenario is being governed by Westminster outside the EU. A vote to stay in for the whole UK seems like a fairly neutral option in terms of Scotland.

      If Scotland votes to stay but England secures a vote to leave (fairly likely) or if England votes to leave and Scottish votes secure a vote to remain in the EU (very unlikely) I struggle to see how the union would survive. Can you imagine the resentment in the former scenario in Scotland and the latter scenario in England?

      I have no way to directly campaign for England to vote to leave the EU but I think a strong SNP camapaign to stay with Nicola talking about what is important for Scotland to a UK wide audience will probably do the trick.

    258. John from Fife says:

      So Osborne is still perpetuating the myth that Scotland relies on oil. Isn’t it about time that our Scottish MPs demanded to see the audited Scottish BOOKS.

    259. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Gerry @8.30

      Let’s face it, they’re all fair game now.

      I’ve decided to make it my business to spread anti corp media messages every day via Facebook and Twitter.

      Already getting positive responses from unexpected quarters.

      Printer on stand by for hard copy guerrilla flyer distribution.
      WOS articles etc. some of the anti media material on twitter is fantastic.

      We need to take them down ourselves, nobody is going to help us.
      Unconventional tactics are called for. The cavalry’s not coming. SNP impotent so far in this respect.

      Give them no quarter, they have shown us no mercy and have treated us with utter contempt.

      We need to concentrate our efforts on one target first, the record is the obvious one, then the stragglers can be dealt with.

      Scotsman must be ripe for the taking as well.

      Sick of their lies and bare faced propaganda.
      We are already hurting them, let’s turn the screw.

    260. Karmanaut says:

      Thanks crazycat. I had already looked through that big pdf, but couldn’t see the exact map I remember. It’s all useful though.

    261. heedtracker says:

      G. Campbell says:
      25 November, 2015 at 10:35 pm
      A billion pounds and 1,000 jobs for the North East of Scotland at risk. Thank christ we followed the P&J’s advice and voted No.

      What a difference a NO win makes. It was 60/40 in Aberdeen, so no doubt all NO votes are delighted with their choice.

      Aberdeen’s property market’s come to a complete halt, just in time for a house building boom totally unplanned by an ACC ruled by UKOK unionists, that have scrapped all Green Belt protection round Aberdeen, for a house building boom, that no wants or can afford.

      How these spivs report it today.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34357804

    262. Angra Mainyu says:

      Thepnr, I have no idea why you say that I’m not Scottish.

      Scot, the SNP & Sturgeon can’t very well be seen encouraging people to vote us out of the EU.

      Tam, I understand that you want to remain in the EU. I do too. But sometimes it’s best to argue for the opposite of what you want.

      It’s a dilemma for sure. Maybe Rev can help although he, like Nicola, probably wouldn’t want to be seen encouraging people to vote us out…

      There’s a good case for Scotland staying out of the EU, but my heart would explode with orgasmic joy if we were to stay in and England along with its UK colonies were to leave.

    263. crazycat says:

      @ Karmanaut

      I’m fairly sure I remember that green map, but I think there was also a greyish-blue one.

      Is that the one you’re after? I had hoped I’d saved it, but I’ve recently had to transfer all my files to a new computer and searching them is proving a pain.

    264. Tam Jardine says:

      Just watched BBC Scotland Osborne at 22.33 presenting his Autumn Statement.

      “with world oil prices falling, and revenues from the North Sea forecast by the OBR today to be down 94% we would have seen catastrophic cuts in Scottish public services”

      And there is our chancellor of the exchequer smirking about forecasted dramatic cuts in revenue to the UK treasury. There is my prime minister smiling at one of the UK’s largest and most profitable industries over the years failing. There are the tory cheerleaders standing at the end of the chamber guffawing led by Iain Duncan Smith who cannot contain his happiness.

      How many folk up in the north have been laid off? If anyone wants to do a wee vine of that it may be a good one to share with anyone up in North East who is undecided.

      It is not enough for these scum that they rule over us and take our riches- they have asset stripped Scotland and now they are trying to destroy. The fact that the rest of the UK suffers doesn’t matter to them. The worse the economic performance is in the northern part of the UK the better the rulers of the UK in the southern part like it. How fucked up is that?

    265. Wuffing Dug says:

      @Heedtracker @ 10.52

      Totally sickens me. Aye the no voters are all very quiet.
      I’ve heard a few sheepishly saying they voted no, their shame is evident.

      r.e. House building – I wanted to move, now stuck – no point putting house on the market. Rapid development all around me.

      All houses, little infrastructure, no amenities. Typical shambolic SLAB run Aberdeen. Road system a cluster**ck.

      400 grand for a soulless box hoose, they can stick it up their arse.

    266. HandandShrimp says:

      There is a distinct possibility that the fake journalists in the failing newspapers may suffer exploding heads if all their efforts to create an SNPbad narrative result in yet another SNP poll victory in May*.

      The big problem they have is that they expect us to vote for the already rejected, utterly useless and incoherent opposition characters like Baillie. I wouldn’t put these people in charge of a minodge much less vote for them.

      The sad thing is these pseudo journalists expend enormous efforts trying to derail the SNP and barely even look at what the other parties are doing. They banged the drum about the handful of armed officers actually appearing in public with their guns but if there was a terrorist attack and the police were late on scene because they had to round up armed officers and their weapons it wouldn’t be their fault or Willie Rennie’s fault. It would be yet another SNPbad story. Possible headline being “Weak SNP listened to an idiot Liberal and partisan hacks”

      *This has a high probability of happening.

    267. ben madigan says:

      O/T For anyone that’s interested here’s the final part of the Phantom Power documentary focusing on the Referendum aftermath.

      It brought back some powerful memories

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/11/25/phantom-power-after-the-uk-won-the-scottish-referendum/

    268. Thepnr says:

      @Angra Mainyu

      As you would obviously have seen I did not call you out on your views on the EU.

      Just your bragging about your “thousands of followers” and your assertion in your own mind of being “a real big shot whose opinions are valued”.

      Bully for you, never heard a Scot brag like that in my life, no problem I take back my doubt about you being a Scot and replace with a big headed Scot with views such as “I’d agree in regards to most of you” not the rest though, because I know better eh?

      Your really are something else Angra, I’ll give you that. Read again what you said. This time pay attention.

      “I’d agree in regards to most of you, but I have thousands of followers on Twitter and am a real big shot whose opinions are valued…”

      I’m not a bam though, honest LOL

    269. yesindyref2 says:

      @Angra Mainyu
      I’d campign genuinely, i.e. IN.

      With Scotland being 1/12th of the UK, every 1% IN in Scotland is counter-balanced by 11% Leave in the UK, if that’s the way they vote. It would be just as interesting if rUK voted to leave but Scotland kept the UK in. There’d be screaming and shouting and pouting in England, and it’s not “we’re better together” they’d be saying.

    270. K1 says:

      In Scotland certainly those of still yes, don’t typically, refer to Nicola as ‘Sturgeon’…find maself slightly bemused by some posters on here of late…

      I think Angra that “One way NOT to win over friends or foe in Scotland is bumping your gums hahaha.” Might be a clue as to why Thpnr thinks you may not be Scottish?

      Because he actually directly stated why he thought you might not be Scottish.

    271. Petra says:

      @ Thepnr says at 9:47 pm …. ”Petra Party politics aside. If a newspaper printed blatant lies about me and in effect slandered me resulting in a loss of reputation, job or business prospects then I believe that if affordable I MUST fight for my reputation. Damned if I don’t, so what’s to lose? Wouldn’t bother if I hadn’t a case and their report was correct, however that’s for the individual and their solicitor to ascertain. Is the story a pack of lies or not?

      For a high profile case, can’t see crowdfunding being an issue. I would like the printers and writers of unproven allegations to realise that they may be asked to account for themselves if what they print proves to be unfounded and mere speculation resulting in some detriment to that individual. There are laws there for that very purpose, I believe in testing those laws where it is warranted. I don’t want to shut down the freedom to comment and provide information to the public by the press. Quite the opposite, facts are fine, FACTS, “apparent discrepancies” is meaningless.”

      Totally agree with you pnr. At one time I was involved in a Court Case. I won’t go into it on here but it was horrendous and resulted in me losing my (beloved) job. They thought that they had ‘sorted me out’ and gotten rid of me because I was at the forefront of supporting MANY other people (a bit of a threat).

      Anyway I was so enraged with lies that were told, the unfairness and injustice …. and even some Solicitors extremely nefarious behaviour …. that I collated a great deal of evidence, came back with a bl**dy vengeance and took out another Legal Case against them. Well I heard from an ‘insider’ that they nearly sh*t themselves when they received the papers and as a result stopped victimising a number of friends of mine. I won that case and took them to the cleaners. That was followed by me taking out another Case against a particularly nasty individual which I won too. During that time I put out the word that I was going after (legally) a number of others (3) who then bucked up their ideas … virtually overnight … and since that time have watched their step.

      Fight fire with fire I say. If you sit back and allow ‘others’ to walk all over you they just become more and more brazen …. seek out more and more ‘victims’. These type of bullyboys and liars have absolutely no respect for what they see as weakness in others. I know because I (and others) tried everything I possibly could to resolve issues before I ultimately decided on taking the Legal redress route.

      As to finances I reckon it would be like the Carmichael Case. It’s difficult (extremely stressful) fighting slander, libel or injustice on your own, never knowing what kind of bill you’ll be hit with next, but mobilise and there’s a real strength in numbers.

    272. Andrew McLean says:

      Tomorrows National front page WTF ? Really WTF!

    273. heedtracker says:

      Wuffing Dug says:
      25 November, 2015 at 11:09 pm
      @Heedtracker @ 10.52

      Estate agents say 2017 house sales recovery for Aberdeen and oil prices. The building boom is just incredible but if its a burst bubble, its being well hidden from Aberdeen.

      But fcuk knows what’s really been lost to the North East with that Blue toon carbon capture plant scrapped. It will all either be seriously buried by fraudster BetterTogether local press P&J and BBC or blamed on Holyrood. Dark days.

    274. gillie says:

      Ken500: A few questions.

      1. How did you get access to WfI accounts?

      2. Do you have evidence that the Greens have gone out their way to smear McGarry?

      3. Who in WfI leaked this nonsense to the media?

    275. Angra Mainyu says:

      Tam, good point. No respect for the people losing their jobs or anything.

      I look at the Tories and I think they are total lightweights, so how come they are in power? The truth is they are in power because of New Labour — people would rather put up with these callous Tory bastards than invest one ounce of hope in Labour.

      The way New Labour stabbed us all in the back destroyed Britain. It’s one of the main reasons the SNP are doing so well and why we are all here.

      Never ever going back in the box…

    276. shug says:

      A funny thing happened on the way to the forum!
      I was talking to a conservative voter and discussing newspapers and he said he had stopped buying the Herald as it was in the pocket of the SNP
      I am struggling to understand how anyone can read Guardham and come up with that result
      If we are ever to get independence we have to get to the root of how someone can read a paper and come up with such a distorted view (in my opinion)
      He was entirely genuine in his view
      Record readers must be thinking the same thing so what is it drives the opinion
      Answers if you please

    277. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne sounds like the Richard 111 character in ‘Blackadder’. Just as devious, Sleekit.

      Wonder when the P & J will be reporting the 75% tax on the Oil sector. Osbourne was intent on ruining the Oil sector as soon as the Tories gained power. The fall in Oil prices should have been balanced by a cut in tax to maintain production and jobs. Osbourne is a crook.

      Heyward, former boss of the worst company in corporate history BP, has received an honorary Degree from RG University. What is the University thinking? Supported by £Millions of tsxpayers money. Honouring a criminal.

    278. Petra says:

      @ Al-Stuart says at 10:31 pm ……… ”Anyone reckon the Daily Mail will go out of business? I am willing to put £20 on it going the way of News of The World within 5 years.”

      Some good news Al-Stuart. I wonder which rag will go down the stank first (however shame for the decent individuals who may lose their jobs …. maybe they should think rebelling?).

      ”Any takers to my bet of Daily Mail going under?” NO

    279. Chic McGregor says:

      If a Brexit EU referendum vote triggers an indyref2, WE WILL LOSE IT.

    280. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Petra (11.26) –

      Good on ye.

      I don’t know what the ins and outs were, but your testimony has the ring of truth about it from start to finish.

      We’ve all been in situations that were too difficult, for whatever reason, and walked away from them. That’s natural, and understood.

      But in some circumstances – for example, a fight for national independence/end to exploitation/brighter future for our weans (you get the drift) – walking away is not an option.

      Whatever disagreements we may have (and they’ve been bubbling-up over different issues in the past few days) the eye must remain on the prize. If the SNP was proscribed as a terrorist organisation tomorrow and all its high-heid yins were imprisoned, that would only bolster the movement already underway.

      I exaggerate for effect, but you know what I’m on about.

      SLab will soon be classified by Wikipedia as a ‘cult’. There is no other game in town. We can bicker and fret all we like amongst ourselves, but that won’t make any difference to the 99% of WOS readers who never comment anyway.

      Alasdair Gray wrote, many years ago: ‘Work as if you were living in the early years of a better nation.’ If that’s not verbatim, it’s close enough to convey what he meant – there’s certainly plenty to do – when we finally become free of WM, it would look very bad indeed if we were all stood around, looking happily gormless and twiddling our thumbs.

      We should be getting on with what we really want to do, in faith that the opportunity to make a living at it – in our own country, on our own terms – is coming, perhaps sooner than any of us realise.

      🙂

    281. Ghillie says:

      David McDowell @ 4.42pm: BUM (British Unionist Media) Snigger giggle snort! I like it! BUM!

      ‘Stuart Faux Concern’ referring to Herald as a believable source: Speaks volumes.

      Looks like the opposition, BUM, think they can pick off our MPs one by one. Soft targets? BIG mistake. But carry on chaps, we’re not interupting you. Nae feart.

      I know folk in WFI, decent inteligent women with integrity, who will be having nothing to do with condemning another individual and would not have made comments without the courage and conviction to attach their name to it. Commonspace are at it. Could do better.

      Has Willie Rennie paid his party’s £800,000 bill to Police Scotland yet?
      How come is Ruth Davidison still leading the tories in Scotland? AND KEZIA, WHERE IS THE £10,000??? (Shouting so she might hear)

      Oh, and btw, Ian Murray, why did you ignore the wishes and expectations of thousands of your constituents to vote AGAINST Trident as you implied YOU would? Or did you deliberatly mislead the good people of Edinburgh South? Shame on you Murray.

      Natalie, this too shall pass. Hang in there pet.

    282. Tam Jardine says:

      Scotland 2015 lead with SNP baad police Scotland story on some journalist I’ve never heard of having his communications intercepted. Looked at the guy’s twitter account- 16 tweets since 2012… former BBC I think? All sounds a bit iffy.

      2nd story- the Autumn Statement and its impact on Scotland. Interesting priorities for the BBC. A little too obvious.

      Plenty fluff about the capital budget in Scotland being increased.

      Greg Hands, MP Cheif Secretary to the Treasury:
      “Most importantly the capital grant we are increasing considerably by an extra £1.9 billion over the course of this parliament which is a 14% increase in real terms which means a lot more money going to be invested in Scotland in capital projects, infrastructure projects to really get the Scottish economy …motoring and moving. Overall its a very good settlement for Scotland.”

      Now I’m just a thick Jock but is that not just a direct result of the massive infrastructure spending in England and the Barnet consequentials of that spending? If anything they will consider that to be an unfortunate cost associated to pumping more money into the South East.

      My understanding of this increase (amongst the overall decrease) is that there must be a significant increase in English infrastructure spending over and above HS2 (which is not subject to Barnet from what I can tell).

    283. Tackety Beets says:

      @ Ruby

      Seeing as we’re “cracking Biscuits”

      What did the biscuit say to the Tory Toff ?

      I’m Rich T !

      Coats on , am aff noo.

    284. Ken500 says:

      Common Space a Green affiliated organisation has been stirring up trouble. Joining in the irrational witchhunts against the SNP. Involved in the WFI exposure, some of them were involved in it. Greens know why the Scottish Gov only can only make limited changes on land use, yet. The SG doesn’t have the comprehensive powers yet. No tax powers yet.

      A Green on ACC has colluded with the Unionist using their casting vote, to vote with the status quo, to ruin Aberdeen City Centre. Building a carbuncle which will cost £Million/Billions over thirty years lease back. Wasting £Millions of public money.

      Spending £33Million removating an Art Gallery and refusing a Gift of £80Million to pedestrianise the City. Reneged on Green policies. People were protesting in the street. Greens campaigned with landowners to stop land coming into public use for an essential by pass road. They wasted £Millons of public money on Inquiries and appeals, increasing the costs.

      The Greens voted against Scottish Independence in Westminster.

    285. One_Scot says:

      Seriously, if we don’t vote Yes next referendum, make no mistake, they will destroy Scotland.

      And there will be nothing we can do to stop them.

    286. Ken500 says:

      A.consortium of WFI seem to have approached the Police and Press to report the matter. If the figures quoted are correct, it is entirely a false flag. Grievances to Settle? Ego’s and halo’s to expose. There are figures posted on this thread from the ‘Herald?’ quoting the figures involved. It is maybe not accurate. It is the ‘Herald’. That is the figures added up and subtracted. The Account is in surplus. Unless it is not in the Account as reported? Weird.

    287. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      Thanks for sharing that personal experience. Couldn’t have been easy what you went through.

      Holding the bit between the teeth and not letting go does pay off at times. Well done for sticking with it, I like the attitude.

      Look forward, never back and never ever give in without a fight.

    288. Ken500 says:

      WFI figures @ Ruby 25 November 2015 @ 1.14pm. – ‘The Herald’

      @ Ken500 – 25 November 2015 @ 6.7pm

    289. Petra says:

      @ Chic McGregor says at 11:45 pm ”If a Brexit EU referendum vote triggers an indyref2, WE WILL LOSE IT.”

      I would reckon that the SNP would carry out ‘intensive’ polling at that time Chic and that Nicola wouldn’t have another Referendum unless she was (doubly) sure of winning it.

      And who knows maybe we’ll find that there will be many no voters not just those who want to stay in the EU but some who are totally adverse to warfare that will decide to vote yes next time round.

      And then there’s Chilcott. Who knows what will emerge from that and who it will influence? Elite paedophile cases if we ever do get to the bottom of it all and of course loads of other things could happen along the way especially with the Tories at the helm and Corbyn literally baling out. Personally I’ve got a gut feeling that we’ll be Independent by January 2019.

      I’ve got a lot of reservations about the EU but I’ll be voting to stay in with the hope that it culminates in our Independence. That way we’ll get rid of one out of two of the bloodsucking leeches and will of course have our ‘ain folk’ representing us in Brussels, not some know-nought Tory Lord. If things don’t go well with the EU, after we get our Independence, we can hold our own in / out Referendum.

    290. Karmanaut says:

      @crazycat Yeah, it was a greyish blue map.

    291. Still Positive. says:

      Petra, totally agree

      We have to vote in while we are at the mercy of UK government but we could vote to leave after independence

      Then we will have our own Constitution which will decide the way forward.

    292. Tackety Beets says:

      I’m sketchy on exact detail but was there not a Carbon Capture proposal in ’98/99 for the NE area which Blair / Brown refused to support and rejected completely . Same script huge investment project for Scotland binned !

      ABZ housing .

      My oldest daughter sold her house , by luck very quickly , and moved to a rental to give her time to buy one near her work. Due to the recent situation she will now continue to rent as the overal market is not good.
      She says there are plenty rentable properties available. Probably folk moving to find work, unable to sell so getting a return by renting out.
      She made the current owner an offer way below their asking rate and it was accepted.
      To me this clearly demonstrates that the ABZ Propery market is far from stable.

      Police / Guns

      I respect John Finnie and issues he raised concerning Trained armed Police being used for normal patrol duties as opposed to cruising around in a funcy motor etc etc . The thing that disgusted me was that the picture used by EM ( Establishment Media) was the picture of the 2 bobbies in Inverness High St from behind where the guns were evident.

      Please tell me did anyone see a picture taken from the front ? What you see as the armed PC approach you ?
      I can assure you the guns were holstered & not easy to see. Barely visible !

    293. Still Positive. says:

      geeo @ 4.32 pm

      Yes I watched that with a bit of hope – although I know it will be dashed – Friday afternoon: it will be talked out.

      But the SNP are, I hope, proving to the Scottish electorate that no matter what they do they are voted down by a majority in Westminster.

      The Scottish public have to wake up to this.

    294. @Ken500

      Maybe it is not Natalie that is the main target maybe they are trying to undermine WFI and the smearing of Natalie and SNP is just a bonus.

      Their seems to be a pattern of the Scottish MSM attacking the woman who campaign for Independence so the subversion of WFI hits a large group of Independent woman.

      It sounds like they have a ("Tractor" - Ed) in their midst a bit like Alex Bell.

      Almost a blueprint of what happened to the SSP and Tommy Sheridan.

    295. crazycat says:

      @ Karmanaut

      Is it this?

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/nip2014.jpg

      We must be thinking of the same thing and this is bluish-greyish.
      I’ll carry on looking at the comments on that post in case there are links to other illustrations.

    296. Dr Jim says:

      If Brexit occurs, why would we NOT win a Referendum on Independence

      The EU would be shoveling money at us to join,
      America would be on Bended knee to get us to join even if we chucked out Trident
      The whole of Northern Europe’s smiles would be face splitting

      Apart from all the obvious attributes which we all know, there’s another thing Scotland has and it’s one of the main reasons England has been so desperate to keep us

      Location Location Location, we are strategically perfect for the defence of the Northern European Countries
      We’ve got the lot

      America would want planes here, France, then of course there are still the English Osborne would have to pay rent till we chucked him out

      I wonder how much we’d get in rental for Scottish real estate, must be worth a bob or two, and who knows maybe miraculously Scottish oil might suddenly be worth something
      And think of all the shortbread we’ll sell then us wee poor Jocky’s

      Hmm !!

    297. Al Dossary says:

      Re Carbon Capture.

      If my memory serves me right the original carbon capture was a joint development between BP and SSE at Boddam power station. It was all looking good right up to the point where BP started to expect HMG to FULLY fund the project. At this point HMG withdrew support.

      BP stood to gain extended production at the injection point, as the extra pressure received by the CO2 injection would have enhanced oil production in the resovoir.

      These oil companies somehow always manage to escape criticism for their mis-management of resources. Their aim in the past was to get as much oil out of the ground as quickly as possible with little regard to the extra that could be gained in the longer term by proper planning. This attitude alone shortened the lifespan of every field in the UKCS.

    298. Still Positive. says:

      Aye Dr Jim @ 2.00am.

      I was in Spain with my family before the ref when my eldest son, based in Surrey, came out with: “You’ll no get in the EU.” My reply to him, notwithstanding the EU judges, was that we were the outermost corner of the EU and we had most of the oil, fishing and renewable energy. He never said a word after.

    299. Stuart says:

      Dr Jim is living in fantasy land I see…

      “If Brexit occurs, why would we NOT win a Referendum on Independence”

      Now here’s a funny thing, but no one ever thinks about what would happen, if Scotland voted to leave the EU, and the rest of the UK to stay in the EU!

      As that would be slightly *Awkward* for the SNP.

      “The EU would be shoveling money at us to join”

      The EU is bust! They have not got money to *Throw* at anyone!

      “America would be on Bended knee to get us to join even if we chucked out Trident”

      This really is delusional, NATO is a nuclear alliance and splitting up the Americans closest strategic partner the UK is not going to go down well at all.

      Never mind that as with the EU, and Indy Scotland would have to re-apply to join both NATO & the EU, and the UK could probably veto both of these things.

      “The whole of Northern Europe’s smiles would be face splitting”

      Really where did you get that idea from?

      “Apart from all the obvious attributes which we all know, there’s another thing Scotland has and it’s one of the main reasons England has been so desperate to keep us”

      Now you really are in fantasy land, Scotland now pulls in in terms of tax revenue more from gambling than it gets from oil. Plus fact that the English are now sat on top of their own oilfield in Sussex.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11524135/Over-300bn-worth-of-oil-discovered-in-West-Sussex.html

      “America would want planes here, France, then of course there are still the English Osborne would have to pay rent till we chucked him out”

      Why would America want planes in Scotland when the UK would host them? Ditto France, and I doubt the English or anyone else would pay you ‘rent’!

      “I wonder how much we’d get in rental for Scottish real estate, must be worth a bob or two, and who knows maybe miraculously Scottish oil might suddenly be worth something
      And think of all the shortbread we’ll sell then us wee poor Jocky’s”

      Hmm !!

      Reading this I think you have possibly had far too much shortbread as the saturated fat content appears to have clotted your brain.

      Apart from that, your post was fine, and filed under ‘Comedy Gold’!

    300. Dr Jim says:

      @Stuart

      Oooh !!Bit bad tempered there old son, something bothering you about the possibility of a free Scotland whatever the circumstances

      I’m the old fashioned type of Scot who doesn’t like the idea of the next door neighbour being in charge of my wages let alone my country’s finances, especially when they’re as incompetent as the inbred elitist nobheads we have, and fed up financing they’re stupidity and vanity

      But you are correct inasmuch as it was meant humorously
      but the sentiment is not

    301. john king says:

      BBC headline
      David Cameron will lay out his reasons for a bombing campaign in Syria “We should sub contract OUR security to other countries”

      Pray tell Dave who’s ASW aircraft are at this moment hunting for an alleged Russian submarine?

    302. Dorothy Devine says:

      I’m with you Dr Jim and right now I fear for my country.

      I am utterly disgusted with the sneering hooray henrys at Westminster and cannot believe that the Osborne thinks it is a great idea to denigrate the SNP using falling oil revenue when that revenue is the UK treasury’s.

      I am assuming he has taken the ” black hole ” created into account in his forward planning and will be cancelling any future interference in other sovereign countries and Trident will be mothballed.

    303. The Isolator says:

      Stuart,

      Read your own post back @ 2.27,you are one crazy cat.How does Scotland get any fckn oil revenue?

      The remainder of the post is also littered in pish,get off your knees man,we don’t need to rely on anyone else to help us flourish.

    304. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT I have not eaten any Tunnocks products , nor Baxters since the their pronouncements on independence.

      My sacrifice of tea cakes has made a difference – I hope.

      Now I find that Mr Tunnock has donated dosh to the St Abbs lifeboat and is being tearfully hailed for his altruism.

      Do I feel bad? Not a bit of it, just curious as to whether there has been a downturn in profits and this intervention is an effort to curry favour.

      Cynical? Moi?

    305. john king says:

      Shug @ 11.32
      “I was talking to a conservative voter ”

      I was talking to the conservative voter
      fixed that for you. 😉

    306. Ken500 says:

      Lifeboat is tax deductible.

      In an Independent Scotland everyone will pay their fair share of tax especially the wealthiest.The tax Laws will be enforced. That will provide enough monies to fund essential services and emergency resources services. Not an illegal free for all where the wealthiest evade and pay no taxes. The reason why the greedy wealthiest want to remain in the UK. To abuse Scottish resources.

      Westminster refused to have an Inquiry for the 4 Helicopter crashes in the Oil sector. Despite being recommended by the Westminster Transport Committee. UK Govement Health & Safety rules were not being followed. To hold the industry to account. Instead collude in a cover up. The culpable Helicopter owners sold up two years later for £250Million. The fines the negligent companies should be given could be used for funding essential services. Instead of lining the pockets of Westminster Unionist MP’s.

      The survivors families raise £Millions for the Lifeboat Institution. Thanks to all their members who give such wonderful service to the community. They really are simply the best. Complete heroes.

      The Tories are taxing the Oil sector at 75%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland and in the supply chain. They are trying to ruin the Scottish economy deliberately. They are despicable liars.

    307. Breeks says:

      The problem with Brexit prompting a second Indyref is that it remains an agenda being set by the unionists.
      I might sound like a broken record, but a plebiscite concerning which powers we hold, and which powers we delegate to Westminster, could not be opposed by Cameron, and delivers at once a new mandate for our SNP majorities to fight for control over broadcasting, renewables, oil, or whatever; fight for them and win!

      Having secured their NO vote, the Unionists are tremendously empowered, with the SNP’s mandate for independence firmly left at odds with the will of the people until “something” changes. Cameron could declare war on Europe and the No to Independence mandate would endure. It was a benchmark event.

      The plebiscite is the best, and in truth the only way I can see the SNP regaining the initiative, and physically securing more power for Scotland over what happens in our country.

      I will take Independence however it may be achieved, but for me, if you’re waiting for Westminster to make itself so unpopular that Independence is a safe harbour, to an extent, you are missing the point. It’s not about being in Europe or out. It’s not about being in NATO or out. It’s not about using Sterling or not. Independence is Scotland having the power to decide what Scotland does.

      That objective is Independence in its purest sense, and trumps ALL of the Unionist scare stories. Please SNP, please people of Scotland, let us understand what sovereign independence for Scotland ACTUALLY means.

    308. Ken500 says:

      There is excess money in WFI accounts when the sums are reconciled. The Accounts are over. Some expendiure has not been deducted from the accounts? More money has been spent than raised.

      Surely some ‘Editor’ would not approve this completely false accusation, without adding up the amounts. It is complete libel. Extraordinary.

      As for WFI they are anything but and have lost all credibility. A complete shambles.

    309. Ken500 says:

      The Tories are told by Cameron to cheer and jeer at other members in Westminster. It is a calculated, orchestrated attempt to try to undermine other members and conceal the Tory lies and try to hide the truth. It backfires spectacularly. Their sickening, disgusting disrespectful behaviour is broadcast for every participant to be judged for their duplicity. The greedy, nasty Tory Party are despicable. The bully Bullingdon boys. It increases the support the SNP and Independence.

    310. heedtracker says:

      The Tories are taxing the Oil sector at 75%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland and in the supply chain. They are trying to ruin the Scottish economy deliberately.

      Red tory Graun boost for blue tory fiscal brilliance.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/25/george-osborne-taps-27bn-windfall-for-tax-credits-u-turn

      Tax credits: George Osborne taps £27bn public finance windfall for U-turn

      The chancellor also announced a fresh squeeze on local government but used far more optimistic tax forecasts from the independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) to delay inflicting pain on Britain’s working poor and to announce extra spending on Britain’s infrastructure.

      That rancid The Graun “Britain” means England ofcourse? BBC Scotland con artists boosting The Burrell gallery getting £5m from a clown like Osborne.

      “Delay” inflicting pain on Britain’s poor based on OBR forecasts?

      If Scots oil’s worthless now, give it all back to Scotland?

      Another day of UKOK liars. fair enough we did vote NO for this red/blue tory reign over us.

    311. Capella says:

      Looking at polling intention figures from last year till the GE this year, SNP’s lead soared after Nicola Sturgeon became leader. It was between -9 and +8 before the referendum then rose steadily to + 33 for the GE. Perhaps that explains the smearing of SNP women MPs?

      http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottish-voting-intention-2

      However, the ComRes poll Scot Goes Pop published on Saturday might have prompted the renewed efforts to smear. Desparate news for Labour on 14% of the Scottish vote.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/it-comres-corker-gb-wide-poll-points-to.html

    312. Angra Mainyu says:

      @Stuart

      The comedy gold was provided by you trying to put Dr Jim and Scotland back in its place.

      Let me tell you something. Even if Scotland ended up in the third world, I’d rather be there independent than here listening to the likes of you calling us scroungers.

      Your rant hinges on a few premises though which explains why it’s all over the place.

      The oil is s bonus, if we make a single fiver from it, it’s still a bonus. Over the last 40 years it has kept the failing British economy afloat though and we know that now. Throughout those 40 years, people like you queued up then as you do now to tell us it’s insignificant.

      But people need oil in large quantities and we have plenty. I can see why that annoys you, Sussex (lol) aside. Comedy gold indeed. How does the revenue from Sussex oil compare.

      One other thing. We’d be better off outside Europe. Your champion, England, would be doing us a huge favour by voting to keep us out of Europe and NATO. It is only the internationalist in our collective psyche that propels us to imagine joining.

      Both those institutions are in deep trouble and if a country like Turkey can drag us all into the apocalypse you can keep NATO.

      The long term prognosis for England, as you know, is rather grim in economic terms. Manufacturing is almost gone, banking totally bankrupt, balance of payments, inward investment, etc., all looking very much ona downward trajectory.

      What does England actually produce? I don’t see where it fits in in the new globalises economy. Any day now the money markets are going to ask that question and realise that sterling is over valued and down, down, down you go into the abyss.

      Greece got it, the Euro got it, Italy, Russia, Spain, they have all been judged by the markets accordingly. Time for the English patient with its overvalued currency and hot air to get it. I look forward to seeing the panic stricken faces babbling on about Sussex oil when it happens.

    313. cyril mitchell says:

      There is something that grates on democracy in Scotland when it is considered ok to have a Northern Irish Unionist as a political editor of the Daily Record or Scotland’s Champion, as it styles itself.

    314. cyril mitchell says:

      Of course we will never know, but bet Freemasonry is heavily involved in anti SNP tirades in media and broadcasting.

    315. caz-m says:

      Over the last two days, Scotland has just lost five Frigates from a promised thirteen Frigate order before the referendum and also a £Billion pound Carbon Capture contract cancelled at Peterhead Power Station.

      The Carbon Capture project would have had the potential to create thousands of jobs across Scotland.

      No mention of it on BBC Scotland.

    316. Big Jock says:

      Cyril or an English unionist in charge at the Herald. I can only assume the Scotsman is the same but would have to check. Or Ruth Davidson Tory tosser ex BBC journalist never off the telly with 14% of the vote.How deep does the wormhole go.

    317. Jim McIntosh says:

      It’s official there are 8,200 jobs at Faslane, the Chief Sec to the Treasury says so on GMS.

    318. Dorothy Devine @ 6.52am.
      You may have hit the nail on the head Dorothy. The number of special offers on Tunnocks products in supermarkets over the past year seem to have multiplied. Not that I’m tempted.

    319. Sinky says:

      Big Jock

      Like Ian Murray and his Tory allies the Hootsman more interested in jumping on the Scotland too poor bandwagon.

      https://archive.is/mT2Xr

    320. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne’s OBR are skewing the projected finances, by ‘predicting a £100Billion increase in tax revenues (a year?) going to the Treasury. This was fraudulently adding to the statistics out of thin air. When there is every indication that tax revenues are not rising so dramatically and Osbourne is increasing the Debt. Using debt increases to fund the Exchequer increased revenue spending. Devious and Sleekit. The £12Billion pound (wasteful) Military increases etc are being put on the debt.

      The of Oil discovery at Essex could be a fraudulent claim to get in money. Encourage share purchases in the Company which will be lost by investors, when the claims come to nothing. It has happened before. The Directors/management appropriate the funding. Obstacles are not disclosed. I.e. Falklands, Gatwick. NS fields.

    321. Macart says:

      @caz-m

      Yep, that’s pretty much why the bullshit on the front pages. Look over here, don’t look over there is pretty much an old trick and getting older by the day.

      However, like a drunken piss poor magician with the shakes, its a magic trick that now fails impress. We can plainly see why we are being misdirected and the wires attached to the vase, the table cloth and the floating elephant of austerity hidden behind the curtains in a Gideon clown suit are easily spotted.

      The media wonder why their readerships are falling off a cliff and the establishment parties wonder why their houses are falling down? Seriously they are that terminally stupid? Or is it that they simply can’t stop?

      They treat us like fucking mushrooms for decades and they wonder why we hold them in utter contempt.

      Anyroads, we know the drill by this point. Folk need help, so give what you can to local charities and foodbanks, especially at this time of year.

    322. heedtracker says:

      Scots students that voted NO, sit up and pay attention to following UKOK fraud on your fellow English academics

      http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/nov/25/osborne-student-loan-tuition-fees-university-higher-education-autumn-statement

      The Treasury said the freeze would be backdated to include the terms of loans to students who started courses from 2012 and, in some cases, graduated this year.

      The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) estimates the retrospective freezing of the threshold at earnings of £21,000 would mean an average graduate would pay back about £3,000 extra, while disadvantaged students who had previously been eligible for support grants would be even worse off. Those earning close to median incomes for graduates would pay back an extra £6,000, the IFS said.

      Exact same UKOK Treasury goon show that rewarded itself for its huge part in Project Fear on Scotland last year.

    323. Ken500 says:

      The expense of Trident does not cover the jobs. 600 are for Trident. Cost £170Billion. Most going to the US for WMD’s thirty minutes from Glasgow. A Navel base would support the jobs and provide more Naval cover. it could be a Navy base which would be more economical and provide jobs in Scotland. The illegal attacks on other countries is costing £Billions and killing and maiming millions of innocent, vulnerable people.

    324. Big Jock says:

      Hey Dorothy I never knew about the Tunnocks thing. Nae mair tea cakes. Lees of Coatbridge make perfectly good ones.

      It goes a way to explain the tea cakes at Celtic Park commonwealth games. The Brigadoon Scots all thought it was a hoot. Grown up Scots hid behind the settee. Well seen Simple Minds stayed well clear of the event. John Barrowman camping it up or Simple Minds opening with Waterfront? Tells us everything. I despise Disneyland Scotland.

    325. Arabs for Independence says:

      Alex Beveridge @ 08:49

      Glad to know there are others still boycotting Tunnocks and Baxters in addition to Mackies and Asda.

      I also note that many of us still move The National to more prominent positions on newspaper shelves.

    326. sensibledave says:

      Angra Mainyu 8:15 am

      You wrote: “Greece got it, the Euro got it, Italy, Russia, Spain, they have all been judged by the markets accordingly. Time for the English patient with its overvalued currency and hot air to get it. I look forward to seeing the panic stricken faces babbling on about Sussex oil when it happens.”

      …. nice! Good to see there is no element of “anti-English” in your thinking.

    327. call me dave says:

      Lord Wallace taking a bow on GMS for saving us from the Osbourne tax credit cuts, it was the Lib Dems what done it.

      He even gave Wee Rennie a plug.

      ‘Touches forelock and away to but my cereal and mushrooms’

    328. Angra Mainyu says:

      Got to love the way they pulled 450 billion out of the hat for defence spending. No austerity for the dealers in death.

      I suppose it’s about time we all admitted that the UK has a war economy. It’s like they applied Keynes to bombing muslims.

      So that’s how we stimulate our economy and growth. We bomb people who have nothing. And we shouldn’t forget trident.

      It’s actually quite clever. The money goes to the rich, they’re the stimulated ones, and sort of gets circulated between rich guys, corporations and banks. They all do well out of it.

      A few crumbs might fall off a table to Rolls Royce workers or something — not too many crumbs though, can’t have that. Can’t have real stimulation in the economy with poor people having money to spend because that causes inflation and if you’re a rich guy inflation is like IS terror or something.

      So we bomb poor Muslims and the desert and buy billions of pounds worth of useless junk — the whole idea is to buy things that are useless and will go out of date in a few years so you can replace it with new improved useless junk and better ways to bombs Muslims. To be clear, by better we mean more expensive.

      And that’s our economy. Welfare for the rich disguised as a war on terror or defence or whatever people will salute. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the dead get deader.

    329. john king says:

      Jim Macintosh
      “It’s official there are 8,200 jobs at Faslane, the Chief Sec to the Treasury says so on GMS.”

      This is starting to get wearisome,

      Right let’s start again, the vast bulk of “the jobs” at Faslane are transients, namely submariners and contractors housed in flats within the base who come up from ENGLAND on a Monday and go back south on a Friday, sum total of benefit to Scotland nil, local employees 520 OFFICIAL!

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13078740.Labour_and_Tories_under_fire_for_inflating_Trident_job_losses/

      lets not forget Bailly and co said 13.000 jobs
      NOW STFU

    330. heedtracker says:

      …. nice! Good to see there is no element of “anti-English” in your thinking.

      Here we go. Sensibledave 4? and his vote tory or else whining and grievance culture. “You think toryboy world stinks, stop being so prejudiced against us English, as we all wrap up in giant union jacks”

      Bring back sensibledave1, sensibledave 4?

    331. Ken500 says:

      Rev Stu could you block the Trolls. Otherwise the website will be compromised, and contaminated. The Unionists have wrecked every other website in Scotland.

    332. Macart says:

      A good summary in today’s national on what that £12 bn in cuts means for us.

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/read-the-small-print-on-this-fiscal-house-of-cards-osborne-has-not-just-wished-away-those-cuts.10464

      Its not pretty and the belt tightening exercise is set to go through another couple of notches. Carried through we’re looking at another 5% cut to the Scottish budget by 2020.

      This is going to leave a mark. 🙁

    333. heedtracker says:

      …. nice! Good to see there is no element of “anti-English” in your thinking.

      Sensibledave 4, get yourself over to rancid The Graun this morn, its Britnat toryboy CiF heaven right the noo.

      “Some UKOK wet fart 48m ago

      Scotlands economy being shown for what it is – a basket case propped up by English taxes.”

      I doubt its ever occurred to toryboys like you sensible either side of the border, that the whole point of YES voting was to end English miserable benevolence in their Scotland region.

      It is a bit disorientating being governed by toryboy world sensible.

      On the one toryboy hand, you beg and plead Scotland to NOT run its own economics and on t’other, Scotland’s a bunch of bums on the scrounge off of England.

      Very weird set up.

      Scotland is fully aware why England’s economy is what it is sensibledave 4? we helped pay for it all and still are for the UKOK foreseeable too.

    334. john king says:

      Sorry it doesn’t seem to want to archive.

    335. Ken500 says:

      Faslane also prevents the exploration of Oil in the West loses Scotland £Billions in revenues and jobs. Illegal, unjust, unfair and unequal taxation (75%) on Scottish Industry and economy, by Westminster. Breaking UK Health and Safety Law in Scotland.

    336. Petra says:

      @ stinky @ 8:52am …..Baillie wants Alex Salmond to apologise for oil ……..

      I’m beginning to think that Jackie Baillie is really losing the plot now. No one could predict that the price of oil would drop when it did. And if we want to start looking for politicians who should apologise for wrong-doing I’ve got a list that would stretch from here to the moon of ….. Labour politicians …… which includes DOZENS of convicted paedophiles. What about her working her way through that list and publicly demanding an apology from them …. and Blair, Brown etc etc.

      Then again maybe it’s got nothing to do with neurosis and more to do with the possibility that she’ll lose her job next year.

    337. Robert Louis says:

      So, NO voters. You were promised home rule, as close to federalism as possible. You were promised defense orders for the Clyde. You were promised the worlds first gas powered carbon capture plant located in Peterhead (a huge inward investment).

      Now, as of today 26th November 2015, barely one year after you voted NO, we understand the carbon capture plant has been cancelled (no reason given), the supposed order for the Clyde have been massively cut (and many may not even be placed with Clyde suppliers), and the promised VOW, the ‘home rule as close to federalism as possible’, are non existent.

      Meanwhile YOUR income tax, is currently being used to pay for the high speed rail link (HS2) from London to Birmingham, the additional London crossrail project – to help London commuters, and will likely be used to pay for an extra runway at London’s Heathrow airport in the near future.

      So, NO voters, given we are being ruled by an English Conservative Government hell bent on destroying Scottish industry, with NO electoral mandate whatsoever in Scotland, do you still think we are ‘better together’?

    338. sensibledave says:

      Ken 500 & Heedy

      …. Its “trolling” to point out Angra Mainyu’s antipathy is it?

      I would have hoped those of the “its not the people of England we hate” disposition may have aimed a few comments at Angra.

    339. Flower of Scotland says:

      Dorothy Devine@6.52

      Tunnocks and Baxters no more!

      Asda must be feeling the loss of my, at least £100 a week, since the Referendum! They have made a big contribution to Cupar Xmas lights. There is no Asda in Cupar.

      Cynical or not!

    340. Ken500 says:

      Jackie Baillie and Murdo Fraser should apologise to the Scottish people for deliberately misleading their constituents and the people in Scotland by not disclosing that Westminster illegally taxes the Scottish Oil sector at 75% This has led to a drop in production since 2010. Costing the Scottish economy £Billions and losing thousands of jobs. Losing Revenues in the supply chain putting up Oil & Gas imports. Increaing the balance of payment deficit and the debt. .

      Jackie Baillie and Murdo Fraser are a disgrace and should apologise and resign immediately, before they have to stand down. They are desperately on borrowed time. Their Parties are a threat to the Scottish economy.

    341. Angra Mainyu says:

      People on here shouldn’t be fooled by the sudden emphasis on oil. An independent Scotland would have a million economic flowers blooming within ten years. It was never to do with oil.

      It’s about getting away from this sweat-shop economy crap they chose for us, with half of our population thrown on the scrap heap.

      With real stimulation and an independent rudder on the economy, we could have a fully employed, vibrant economy with expertise in a range of key areas like engineering, shipping, deep sea drilling, software development.

      Add to that our amazing tourism industry, our history, friendly people, the food we export, and a multitude of other strengths.

      Oil will bounce back and when it does it will be a bonus but we all knew we could never lie back on the laurels of oil. We need read economic management, industrial policy and stimulation.

      Bombing defenceless and poor Muslims isn’t an economic policy I want anything to do with. Certainly not while half of our own people are left to rot as they are now.

      I urge you all, do not resign to having lost the economic argument. We have a stronger case now than we ever did. Let’s get the leaching bastards off our backs while they think they have the upper hand.

    342. heedtracker says:

      Robert Louis says:
      26 November, 2015 at 9:56 am
      So, NO voters. You were promised home rule, as close to federalism as possible. You were promised defense orders for the Clyde. You were promised the worlds first gas powered carbon capture plant located in Peterhead (a huge inward investment).

      Toryboys destroyed Scottish renewable industry out of hand, despite promising the exact opposite. BetterTogether creep show would prefer paying China mega billions for nuke power, because nuclear is all so green n shit.

      How far right UKOK sell Toryboy scrapping huge slice of Scotland’s industrial green future, again

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/windpower/11920575/Ending-wind-farm-subsidy-scheme-will-save-households-30p-Government-estimates.html

    343. Macart says:

      @Petra

      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled…

      Scotland has never seen penny one of the oil revenues from day one. Were it a pound a barrel flowing into a Scottish treasury, it would be one more than we’ve ever received. Hence oil being a bonus.

      As the Rev and many others have exhaustively pointed out, the whole point of independence is not to run an economy in the way a Westminster government would. That our priorities and decisions would be based on our needs, geography, body politic and resources human and actual.

      The model of the Westminster government has PROVABLY failed, which is why we’re in the biblical debt hole we’re in. That JB and the rest of the establishment parties STILL fail to comprehend this and still attempts to polish a turd on a daily basis says far more about their grasp of how to manage an economy than anything a Stiglitz or Mirlees could say or do to put them in their place.

      Next May we’ll hopefully turn the volume down on the white noise from those benches and get on with shoring up defences against this latest wave of austerity which THEIR system introduced.

    344. sensibledave says:

      Robert Louis at 9:56 am

      You wrote “Meanwhile YOUR income tax, is currently being used to pay for the high speed rail link (HS2) from London to Birmingham ….”

      Indeed, my income tax is being used for the project too – that tears through some of the most beautiful countryside in England. Its building will cause even more traffic disruption for years, and then it will be a permanent scar.

      And the kick in the a***e? … No one that lives in the area will be able to use the bloody thing – it wont stop anywhere until it gets up to the Birmingham area.

      Then you wrote: “and will likely be used to pay for an extra runway at London’s Heathrow airport in the near future.”

      … another thrilling benefit of living near the busiest International airport in the world. We might get another runway at Heathrow and even more planes and noise.

      May I suggest that before you write your comments – you think things through a little?

    345. sensibledave says:

      Macart 10.14

      “Scotland has never seen penny one of the oil revenues from day one.”

      ???

    346. Robert Louis says:

      Flower of Scotland, I too still boycott Tunnocks and baxters. I also choose not to shop at Morrisons, as in my eyes they are and were the very worst of the Britin, Britin, Britin nonsense. Still are.

      Then of course there is Sainsbury’s who unashamedly sell ‘British Scotch Broth soup’. That would be like a supermarket in Berlin selling ‘German French onion soup’. Anything emblazoned with the union jack, gets promptly returned to the shelf from whence it came.

      At least Aldi, out of all the supermarkets, make an effort, and often have a lot of Scottish products. Hardly a union jack in sight, thankfully.

      It will be interesting to see which retailers can be bothered to recognise Saint Andrews day on Monday.

    347. Ken500 says:

      The CCS project should have gone to Longannet in Fife, for coal production. There are massive reserves in Scotland/UK. Coal is cheaper than imported Gas or Nuclear. Coal now has to be imported. Puting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt.

      The Scottish Gov could still possibly, purchase Longannet and get EU renewable Grants to develop the technology. Putting harmful gas back the sea bedrock from where the emissions came. Less costly than danger nuclear (everything is) and more sustainable than exporting nuclear waste to Africa.

      Westminster blocked Scotland access to EU Renewable Grants because of it’s indecision. Westminster took the extra EU Cap payments intended for Scottish farmers. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in Europe. Westminster gave the extra funds to wealthier farmers elsewhere. The Tory Minister quoted ‘Better together’ when doing it.

    348. Robert Louis says:

      Macart at 1014am,

      Quite right. I’d rather have oil revenues at a third of the current price coming to Scotland, than NONE at all, as is the case at present.

    349. Ken500 says:

      Is noticeable how the misogynistic, the male dominated Press is going after attractive ‘female’ SNP elected members. They should put their house in order or be sanctioned. The Press Code of conduct. Equality. There have been repeated reports of Press members bullying in the work place and the wider community.

    350. heedtracker says:

      May I suggest that before you write your comments – you think things through a little?

      Most western economies have high speed rail sensible, except teamGB.

      Fact is, if England was not so focused on the superheated south east and London, the UK may well have had high speed across the whole of teamGB by now, like say Japan, France or Holland. Instead they pumped Scots oil reveneus into to slow commuter rail for London and of course England’s giant road networks.

      Ofcourse red tory maniacs like Crash Gordon never actually say out loud, its all for the south east of England and region’s like Scotland have been left to get on with what ever toryboy world decides is good enough.

      An entire natural resource off Scotland’s coast has been invested in England’s infrastructure and we have to listen to the sneers and jeers, Scotland’s merely a UKOK region of bums and scroungers.

      But to be fair, no one should kid themselves that this exactly what colonies are for sensibledave 4. And ofcourse, scrounger sweaties are welcome to move to the south east too, just like everyone in the EU:D

    351. cyril mitchell says:

      Strange thing about Baillie and other Labour MSPs is that they shake their head in the Scottish Parliament when presented with undisputable facts. I know that in some cultures a nod means NO and a shake of the head means YES, but this is getting culturally confusing. Are Baillie et al saying they are in aggreement?

    352. schrodingers cat says:

      Chic McGregor
      If a Brexit EU referendum vote triggers an indyref2, WE WILL LOSE IT.

      that’s why the snp manifesto will read….should the people of Scotland, in the next parliament, wish for another indyref, we will hold one…..

      this leaves the SG the ability to decide themselves.

      making a firm commitment to hold indyref2 carries just as much danger as making a firm commitment NOT to hold indyref2.

      the 2016 manifesto commitment will allow Nicola the ability to choose.

      eg, if the polls show, after brexit, that only 49% of the people of Scotland support indy, the snp manifesto commitment will enable Nicola to NOT hold indyref2,

      however, if the polls show, after brexit, that 59% of the people of Scotland support indy, the snp manifesto commitment will enable Nicola to hold indyref2,

      no one knows what the future will bring, I continue to hope that support for indy continues to grow, but the snp manifesto commitment enables us to plan for both eventualities.

      after saying that, Rev, I would be interested to see the question in your next poll about how a potential brexit would affect peoples attitude to Scottish indy…

    353. Graham MacLure says:

      Ken 500 @9.32.

      It’s not often I find myself in disagreement with you but I believe the site needs a token troll or two. Feed them an “Austerity “diet of just enough to sustain them as they give us an insight into the Brit establishment thinking .
      The letters page in the Press and Prejudice is a good source of amusement for me as I know some of the more rabid writers there and their management failures.

    354. galamcennalath says:

      Graham MacLure says

      “I believe the site needs a token troll or two. ”

      … the straight forward ones give the opportunity to set the record straight in response to the Unionist view point. It is sad that so often all the come up with is a regurgitation of Mail/Telegraph/BBC line rather than a bit more personal analysis.

      Then there are the more subtle trolls. They appear out of the blue, are fairly active and initially take similar lines to the mainstream here. Then they go off at a tangent and their true intention becomes clear – sabotage rather than genuine discussion.

    355. Dorothy Devine says:

      ASDA, Sainsbury, Morrisons and any other union flagging tatty baggers can whistle for my money, I’ll stick to Lidl.

      As for Tunnocks , I will stick to Lees – thanks Big Jock for reminding me. I once had cause to complain about Lees snowballs which were chewy instead of creamy . To my then young daughters delight they sent a poor guy dressed as a clown chef with several boxes of Lees products to compensate.

      I usually make my own soup so Baxters can stay on the shelf.

      Mackies disgraced themselves so anyone else but them for ice cream.

      Do Grahams make ice cream ,anyone know?

      And any Scottish product anywhere emblazoned with the union flag with a tiny saltire in some hidden corner can also stay on the shelf.

    356. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      An open forum is an open forum. How and ever having spent a fair old time banging heads with such on many a mainstream site over the past four years, I’ve simply come to a crashing halt on even speaking to them. Its a pointless and self defeating exercise. They don’t appear on forums to understand or discuss, or even agree to disagree when paths are too divergent.

      The best remedy has always been the Revs. If you don’t like what someone has to say or how they say it, simply walk on by, do not engage.

      I’m done arguing the point of independence with anyone. I see these forums now as a means of communication and organisation. People can pass on information, discuss solutions to problems. Inform each other and get word out. The establishment have their massed media, sites like these provide the balance that is missing and readers can decide for themselves who proves to be more accurate as time and events come and go.

      Right now we’re facing Osborne’s latest hit and run with real terms cuts and hardship on the way. As I said above lets look to local charities and foodbanks this winter, they’re going to need all the help they can get.

    357. Jim McIntosh says:

      @john king says:
      26 November, 2015 at 9:26 am
      Jim Macintosh
      “It’s official there are 8,200 jobs at Faslane, the Chief Sec to the Treasury says so on GMS.”
      This is starting to get wearisome,
      NOW STFU

      You obviously haven’t got the sarcasm font on your computer. 🙂

    358. john king says:

      Sorry Jim,
      Too used to looking at those idiots in the Herald screaming about all the jobs lost in Faslane if its closed.

    359. Gary45% says:

      Dorothy Devine@11.12 am
      Yes Grahams make ice cream.
      Its much better than Mackies.

    360. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’ll just say that I have devoloped a taste for Audrey’s soups, particularly the Cock-a-leekie.

      HOWEVER…

      I buy my Baxter’s soups at Poundstretcher, at 49p a can, or, at the moment, for the ‘Cock-a-leekie’, Tesco, where they are doing them at “half price”, ie 60p. Who pays £1.20 for a can of soup?

      I believe Tesco are coming the punt (typo) but it’s the way Tesco does things. Put the price up to something ridiculous for 28 days, then offer a massive discount.

      They seem to think our heads zip up the back…



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