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Coach and horses

Posted on May 30, 2020 by

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    1. 30 05 20 08:56

      Coach and horses | speymouth

    463 to “Coach and horses”

    1. McDuff says:


    2. Effijy says:

      Well Done Chris.

      Coach and horses running right over those who
      Have needlessly died due to the mismanagement
      Of the Covid virus.

      170,000 so far signed this petition to show a vote
      Of no confidence in Bojo’s Lying Circus.

    3. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Brilliant, and I can even name the two horses Chris.

    4. Capella says:

      Could have added Public Health and Public Services too. The world’s cleverest man is also the stupidest.

    5. Sharny Dubs says:

      Very apt, but unfortunately with a majority, another four years till the next election and an SNP happy with the status quo, they don’t need or care for trust.
      That horse bolted the field long since.
      We missed our chance, and Scotland is screwed

    6. Ron Preedy says:

      Superb, Chris, but you forgot the kid in the back seat 🙂

    7. Dan says:

      Blazing Arseholes Championing His Wander North…

    8. Lollysmum says:

      Well done Chris feeling the nation’s pulse & pointing out the kiss of death for the union. One rule for them & one for us.

      Feck the lot of them!

    9. Simon Curran says:

      There is so much about this site which has depressed me in recent times but Chris cartoon is bang on the money. You are a national treasure. I think Boris Johnson and his mates need to get their vision sorted as they are the only ones who can’t see this.

    10. Dod says:

      Suggest Dom’s name be abbreviated to Mings …more fitting methinks.

    11. ronnie anderson says:

      Tories circling the wagons round Cummings and he turns up in a coach , there again the Tories leadership dont know their arses from their elbass .

      Great toon Chris .

    12. Julia Gibb says:

      The two horses are brilliant! The cartoon is genius.

    13. callmedave says:

      Another wee masterpiece, finely done and so concise as always! 🙂

      Scorching day already in Fife and the beaches are <5 miles away.

      A visit to Leven Lidls and a sniff at the briny may be on the cards.

      Budgie smugglers, not permitted yet she tells me. 🙁

    14. Ottomanboi says:

      Corona-cummings-cockup disease.
      Jenkins being a rational man supports Scottish independence.

    15. Willie says:

      Yup, all public trust gone, and gone absolutely.

      A corrupt police, a corrupt judiciar, it’s all here. But then think of what could come next. America or Norther Ireland or Sharpesville SA being the examples.

      Cops arrest dissident Scottish Nationalist politico suspected of the crime of inciting people to vote independence. To reinforce the gravity of the alleged offence political police unit rough up dissident in public view.

      Independence voters and the wider public outraged at treatment gather to protest. Gaultier Sturgeon then puts armed troops on the street with orders of go home or you’ll go home in a box.

      Ah a fairy story that could never happen here. Well sharpeville happened, Northern Ireland Bloody Sunday happened and America is certainly happening.

      In all of these countries the rule of law was compromised. All were once British colonies. But like them the rule of law compromised here – as this cartoon alludes.

      And would they shoot you here. Well I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. A beating first maybe, illegal incarceration or internment next, but ultimately shooting – with tanks in George Square if needed.

      Good cartoon Chris. Maybe it could change to become our much needed cavalry to the rescue rather than the depressing picture of reality that exists today.

    16. Tony Hay says:

      The way that Johnson has handled the Cummings affair should make even the most ardent follower of gradualism admit a section 30 order will never be granted.

      If we want our freedom we will have to take it,you dont reason with psychopathic bullies,you kick them right in the nuts. I firmly believe now that NS ain’t the kiddy to put perfidious Albion in her place…..the question is,who among us is?

    17. robbo says:

      Gid cartoon .Reminds me very much of
      eegit Boris driving the fork lift through the wall at volvo with the get brexit done crap.
      Still not done,don’t give up hope!

    18. Craig P says:

      You have an eye for an image Chris!

    19. robbo says:

      Lol, aye wiz just posting my wee error when seen yours peeps

    20. Bob Mack says:

      The rule book is for ordinary people after all. Isn’t it?

      Cummings runs the Government not Boris, and that is something our representatives should be pushing time and time again to further destroy these Tories.

      Cartoon as expected is brilliant.

    21. Willie says:

      The cartoon also reminds me of a Peter Hewson style where the coach and horses could be being driven over the skulls of the nearly 17,000 who up until the 25th May have been fined for breaking lockdown.

      Even more grim, the image, at least for me conjured up Cummings running roughshod over the bodies of those who had died.

      Yes, a cartoon can say a lot.

    22. Papko says:

      You have only got to see the queues at Starbucks and BurgerKing, to prove that Scotland is clamouring for Independence.
      Locked in their homes for over 2 months by a man-made virus, engendered by the Global capitalist elite.

      Scots want out of this travesty of a Neo-Liberal system.
      A return to a pastoral lifestyle.

    23. Republicofscotland says:

      Very true Chris, meanwhile if you take the Home nations out of the equation England has the highest mortality rate in the world from the virus.

      However there’s no pleasing Ian (union jack suit) Murray, as he moans about Scotland having different lockdown rules to England, look at the death rate in England Mr Murray, or are you blinded by your butchers apron suit.

    24. Republicofscotland says:

      The state propaganda machine the BBC has received many complaints after English Health and Social Care minister Helen Whately virtually said on QT that as one angry respondent put it “Yeah we’ve killed thousands of people, get over it” as Whately said yes we need to move on. Referring to mourning for the death of loved ones from the virus.

    25. Sinky says:


      Ian Murray’s latest claims about care home deaths and a minor outbreak at Nike conference completely demolished by the wonderful
      Prof Robertson at

      Why is this stuff not covered by the Scottish press?

      Why do Scots Gov / UK Gov not make reference to this EU wide monitor of Excess deaths over the seasonal norm? Scroll to bottom

      Latest Z numbers England much higher at 2.93 and Scotland 1.88 which makes a nonsense of claims that Scotland has higher care home deaths in Europe.

    26. jfngw says:


      Ian Murray has no real interest in the death rate, he wants Scotland back under Westminster control. Not by the ballot box but by having Scotland ruled by whatever England votes for. He wants the SNP removed, Scotland ran by committees stuffed full of Lab/Con/LibD MP’s, totally subservient to another country.

      If we ever return a Britnat majority at Holyrood they will introduce legislation to reduce its power, they will remove any possibility of independence and claim it’s what we voted for.

      This is a man that believes we would be better under Boris Johnson leadership, he’s Mr Hudson from Upstairs Downstairs, the head house jock.

    27. Mist001 says:

      Boris Johnson used to be the editor of a magazine called ‘The Spectator’.

      Whilst there, his assistant editor was a woman named Mary Wakefield.

      Mary Wakefield is the wife of Dominic Cummings.

      Dominic Cummings controls Boris Johnson.

      So, what went on at The Spectator then?

      Johnson is seriously compromised, possibly being blackmailed and that’s why he looks so physically different on TV now than he did 6 months ago.

      The shit has hit the fan and he knows it!

    28. Willie says:

      I see today’s MSM that three eminent SAGE scientists have broken ranks to say that the infection rate is still too high and that it’s too early to lift lockdown.

      With already the highest death rate in the world, and they sr3 running a coach and horse over the real excess death rate, a second way would spell an absolute disaster for the UK. But as a Cummings opined at the start, it’s the older folks predominately who die.

      Maybe the cartoon’s coach and horse is an allegory of the Cummings horse and funeral carriage rushing to bury another body, in which there has been a roaring trade.

      Ah what a country, what a shit hole, think I’ll head out for a walk. With only the open countryside behind my house I am lucky where the millions cooped up in urban areas are not. It’s a nice day.

    29. robbo says:

      Don’t know why folk gee that slag time of day. Vote him out south-side,do it now for Scotland,not for his bigoted beliefs .Presume he’s a jam tart? No offence to jam tarts or good Hearts supporters intended.

      The wee rat couldnae tell the truth if it smack him right in the puss!

    30. James F. McIntosh says:

      Totally agree with you Willie and if it does kick of in the streets well the SNP will be partly to blame for their refusal to act politically and complete the mandate they were entrusted with.

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      “Why is this stuff not covered by the Scottish press?

      Why do Scots Gov / UK Gov not make reference to this EU wide monitor of Excess deaths over the seasonal norm?”


      Thanks for the links, as for the above, the former is controlled from down South, the latter, well, I’m beginning to wonder if the heirarchy within it answers to London as well, and ergo chooses what to pipe up about and what not to.

    32. Muscleguy says:

      Stop spreading the conspiracy theory. It is NOT true! We can tell whether a virus has been in a lab and I can detail exactly how if you want the molecular level stuff. ALL the Western virologists have said there are no such signs.

      It came out of the Wuhan wet markets and probably bounced around for a while adapting to humans before it got good enough. Remember seasonal flu is cooked up between fowl and swine EVERY YEAR. Measles came to use from cattle. We are part of Nature not apart from it and are subject to it.

    33. Republicofscotland says:

      Jfngw @10.38am.

      I couldn’t agree more, Scotland is jam packed with gatekeepers at all levels.

    34. Colin Alexander says:

      O/T Respecting the rule that no off-topic comments until around a dozen on-topic comments have been made.

      Re: Discussion of legal denunciation of the Treaty of Union.

      In English Law ( Is it the same in Scots Law?) ratification of a Treaty does not give it direct legal effect. Only when it is incorporated into domestic law does English ( and Scots Law?) give direct legal effect to a treaty.

      I believe the Treaty of Union was ratified by the independent Scottish and English parliaments. However, this was followed by domestic legislation – the Articles of Union, that incorporated the Treaty into domestic law of both countries.

      As Lorna Campbell pointed out, domestic law cannot amend the bi-lateral international Treaty, (except where the Treaty makes provision for this).

      However, GB Parliament, has over centuries amended the DOMESTIC legislation on numerous occasions, even where the original Treaty does not permit amendment.

      So, the Union is operating on domestic law that is in some cases explicitly breaching the terms of the original treaty.

      UK Parliament will tell you it can make or unmake any law.

      However, as Lorna Campbell pointed out, the Treaty of Union engages international law. UK Parliament cannot make or unmake international law. But, it can and does flout it.

    35. Beaker says:

      HIGNFY was on last night, and you’ll never guess what the main topic was…

      Can’t wait to see the cover of Private Eye next week.

    36. robbo says:


      Fill your boots.Take off the bacon foil hat.

    37. Sinky says:

      Colin Alexander is very much O/T as there is far too much internal naval gazing on this site. I suspect that a lot of it is to deflect attention from the main aim of exposing the failings and hypocrisy of the opposition parties that are not covered in the media which is mainly London controlled.

    38. Muscleguy says:

      And I forgot: Ebola has a reservoir in bats which is why it keeps resurfacing. HIV evolved from SIV which infects the other apes and likely crossed when a bushmeat hunter was butchering an infected chimp carcass and got chimp blood in cut or open would and SIV went ‘this feels like home’ because we share 99.7% of our genes with chimps.

      Malaria can infest other creatures than humans just fine.

    39. Famous15 says:

      Unintended consequences are ironically not always unintended. What?

      The only person gaining from unrest in US is Donald Trump.

    40. Republicofscotland says:

      “Mist001 says:
      30 May, 2020 at 10:44 am
      Boris Johnson used to be the editor of a magazine called ‘The Spectator’.”


      I recall reading recently an article from his old boss at the Telegraph newspaper, in which he described Johnson as an egotistical,self centred, lazy and quite a cold and calculating figure, and that he (his old boss) is shocked that such a man as Johnson has made it all the way into number 10.

    41. Republicofscotland says:

      “The only person gaining from unrest in US is Donald Trump”


      When the looting starts the shooting starts said POTUS Donald Trump referring to the unrest in Minneapolis. The phrase has racial undertones have been previously used by the notoriously violent Miami police chief Walter E Headley in the 1960’s.

      Headley was renowned for his use of force on black folk in America, Headley was once quoted saying, we (the police) don’t mind being accused of police brutality. Black folk in America are still mostly treated as second class citizens in my opinion. Trump’s tasteless quote only helps to inflame the situation in Minneapolis he also accused it mayor of being a weak leftist radical.

    42. Auld Rock says:

      Simon Curran. Simon, there is much that I agree with in your post in fact I would go further and in a country 150 miles east of where I sit where some of the people posting here would be ‘tagged’, Quislings and some 5th Columnists.

      When are they going to switch off their computers and switch on their brains and ask the simple question, who in their right minds would start a campaign, marches, leafletting, door knocking, etc in the middle of a pandemic including ‘lock-down’? It is all aimed at stirring up trouble for the SNP and other pro-independence groups.

    43. Ron Maclean says:

      @Sinky 11:04am

      From ‘About us’

      ‘Wings Over Scotland is a Scottish political website, which focuses particularly on the media – whether mainstream print and broadcast organisations or the online and social-network community – as well as offering its own commentary and analysis.’


      ‘The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.

      Got something worthwhile to say about Scotland’s future? Try us.’

    44. dramfineday says:

      Spot on Chris! Love it.

      Now, if Bloody Stupid Johnson had sacked Cummings then BSJ’s ratings would have soared, people would have seen leadership and the need to stay at home or at least stay local, being reinforced. But being Bloody Stupid Johnson he didn’t, the ratings crashed, and some people appear to have taken their cue from it.

      The consequences of his lack of action has been awful in terms of the political wagon circling. I fear it will become horrific in terms of lives damaged and lost.

    45. Colin Alexander says:

      GB operates on the principle of Sovereignty of UK Parliament
      (Crown in Parliament), an English principle that pre-dates the creation of GB.

      As far as I know, the Treaty of Union does not, and Scots Law does not recognise such “sovereignty of UK Parliament” as law.

      But, for as long as we accept the convention of the sovereignty of UK Parliament, it means UK parliament is ABOVE the law, not bound by ANY law.

      Sounds crazy doesn’t it? It is crazy. But remember, this is the British Imperial parliament. The parliament of the British Empire. The British Empire ruled the world. It was the world power. It was the international law.

      Those days are long gone. The UK state is one among many in the world who recognise ( even if they don’t always obey) international law.

      But, the SNP and people in Scotland still bend the knee in colonial subservience to English / British Empire convention that the Imperial parliament is above all law and is absolute ruler with absolute power – because Queenie pays a visit now and again.

      A very important example of damaging effect of this acceptance of British Empire rule is Sturgeon’s SNP accepting UK Parliament’s vote ( by English MPs and GB Lords unelected by the people of Scotland) to drag Scotland out of the EU, despite multiple votes by the people of Scotland to Remain or backing those with pro-EU manifestos. (Similar arguments can be made regarding multiple mandates for action on indy but Sturgeon insists she must obey UK Parliament).

      In tandem with the legal action on the Treaty of Union a Scottish legal challenge must also come against the convention of unlimited sovereignty of parliament regarding UK Parliament’s assumed right to simply ignore or breach the Treaty of Union at will and treat Scotland like a colony of England.

      This can / should also involve the Scottish sovereignty challenge most often mentioned by Breeks: that although the organs of the independent Scottish state were mostly incorporated into a GB state (with Scotland retaining separate legal and religious systems), the people of Scotland ALSO retained Scottish sovereignty so have the ultimate sovereignty for Scotland, such as the right to unilaterally denounce the Union in its entirety, especially as it has been breached on numerous occasions.

    46. Josef Ó Luain says:

      @ Willie

      The favoured method of Ye Olde British Establishment is to starve into submission, not shoot, those with the wit and temerity to point-up its corrupt nature.

    47. Habib Steele says:

      The puppet master and his puppet, Boris, have not lost my trust by this incident. They never had my trust; nor have the Tories!

    48. Ron Maclean says:

      300+ years of unquestioning acceptance of all breaches ratified the Treaty until now. Servitude is our forte. It doesn’t have to be.

    49. Ottomanboi says:

      An Indian’s view of the British ruling class, pre-Corona…
      With Scottish apologists Ferguson & Blair licking its mucky boots.
      and post-Corona, so much worse.
      An opportunity not to be missed.
      No more ham fisted ‘compromise’.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Well over a year old but still a great read.

      And how good is ‘malign incompetence’ as a descriptor of Tory behaviour right now?

      If the SNP isn’t interested in discussing independence, fair enough, but it’s coming anyway – the least we can hope for is that they’ll keep an eye on the family silver for as long as the process takes, otherwise we could find ourselves free in an asset-stripped wasteland.

    51. schrodingers cat says:

      james kelly already at £4700 for a new indy poll

    52. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Republicofscotland 10.19: Ian “The Union at All Costs” Murray just wants to have a level killing field.

      He’s not a very nice little man but he’s not very bright either.

      I see a knighthood for him one day. Wee Willie Rennie will be beelin’.

    53. schrodingers cat says:

      whats the odds this poll will show support for the snp and yes +50%?

    54. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Sharny Dubs says:
      30 May, 2020 at 7:59 am

      “We missed our chance, and Scotland is screwed”

      Not necessarily – The UK’s Brexit transition period ends at midnight 31st Dec 2020. and a Holyrood election is due on 6th May 2021′

      If we can put enough pressure on the SNP from within and outwith they can be forced to honour their promise that “Scotland will not be torn out of the EU against its will”.

      A legal challenge on the authority of the Union Parliament to act against the wishes of the Scottish people and a Plebiscite Election in 2021 are both within our grasp.

      To this end I have re-joined the SNP after a 10 year absence and is anyone up for crashing the Torchlit Procession to Holyrood Park on 30th Dec?

      Bring your own replica pitchforks, scythes and banners!

      put yourself on the mailing list for times, tickets etc.

    55. Dr Jim says:

      UK Law and constitution is based on a lie and if you can find lawyers to challenge it by sacrificing themselves and their careers you can bring down the whole edifice

      Every legal document the UK government issues is headed with
      *Her Majesty’s government* that’s a lie, and it’s a lie because the Monarchy has no power or legal sway over constitutional matters of law, so the claim that the UK government work for the Monarch of the day, is a lie

      The Monarchy is a stick of Blackpool rock, a picture postcard for the tourists if you will and has no legal power whatsoever

      So why does the UK claim this

      The UK government uses the Monarchy as the fallback respect driver of *British* consent of and by the people, but the people must never be aware that the Monarchy only serves this cosmetic purpose or the obvious dissent occurs from those to whom the idea of loyalty to royalty has been sold

      Without the use of the Monarchy in this way *Britain* becomes visually an ordinary democratic state totally accountable to the electorate and the elite of the born to be rulers positions would fall into jeopardy

      So here’s how it works

      Find lawyers who are prepared to take the UK government to court on the basis of proving that UK legal documentation claiming they are responsible to the Monarch when the Monarchy has no legal power, cannot in fact be legal documents

      Monarchy or Democracy which is it, legally it cannot be both

    56. Clapper57 says:

      Great Chris…as per

      BTW does anyone think that the eyesight test re Cummings driving to Banford Castle was something Cummings and t’others concocted as a dare to troll the media….knowing full well that even though an obvious and ridiculous excuse…. oh and implausible…. but as he is seemingly untouchable as Boris will (cannot) sack him….he felt he could use it….cause…getting Brexit done will save him from well….doing anything he likes !

      So what excuse are going to use for driving to Banford Castle Dom ?

      Dom thinks.

      Okay…how about if I say to test my eyesight…who dares me to say that in my statement….(everybody laughs).

      Oh come on Dom….really…you are going to use ‘THAT’ as an excuse ? (more laughter)

      Yes…imagine their reaction…epic trolling though…(more laughter).

      Meanwhile…Cnuts like Lordy Digby Jones troll Nicola Sturgeon and bait indy supporters online by inferring SHE is breaking rules by seeing a hairdresser….

      You know when Digby Jones was in HOL he insisted on having the same seat when he attended debates…so that he could get a vending machine installed (full of pork pies and buns for him to snack on) next to his seat…. to remind him of his schooldays when he was at a public school…. when his name was Billy Bunter…i.e. before he changed his name by deed poll to Digby Jones….how TRUE that could be in a ROUND about sort of way…Lol

    57. schrodingers cat says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      If the SNP isn’t interested in discussing independence, fair enough


      I think this is why this site is failing. on the other thread, loads of I hate the snp and nicola, i wont ever vote for them again etc

      the idea of a new Independent List Party (ILP) is based of the idea that a vote for the snp on the list is somewhat wasted due to the Electoral Arithmetic (EA) of the d’hondt system. I think most folk understand this and even if they dont understand the EA, they are willing to accept the word of others that do.

      i think where i failed was not explaining clearly my position on the politics of a new ILP.

      there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a new ILP which also has policies different from the snp, i dont particularly like gra reforms either and I have never supported retaining the monarchy. but you know this ian.

      but i dont think this will work, for the very simple reason that it has already been tried and failed. the ssp, solidarity, rise, the greens

      the indy voters look upon such parties and trying to use the yes movement for their own gain and to shoehorn their own agendas into the mix. the indy voters do not trust them and have refused to vote for them.

      coupled with the fact that the large number of comments on this site, saying they hate the snp and nicola will ensure that any new ILP party with any connection with this site will also fail.

    58. Clapper57 says:

      @ Dr Jim @ 12.42pm

      Hi Dr Jim….enjoyed your comment…

      I hope you are well….take care

      Have a nice day

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Tory government’s chief advisor has show extremely poor judgement throughout HMG’s lamentable performance, as it was probably Cumming who recommended ignoring the “precautionary principle” and “global health law”.

      A Realistic View on Law and Legal Cognition

    60. Ahundredthidiot says:

      SC – is the site failing or is that just your opinion?? and if so, how is success/failure being measured?

      Lastly, if it is failing, surely you dont suggest compromised principles an effective way out of it – to ‘success’??

    61. Dr Jim says:

      Gavin Williamson of the English government has just declared England Independent from the UK

      Mr Williamson is to place a cap on the amount of English students allowed to Study at Scotlands universities, in effect restricting freedom of movement within the UK and politically denying Scottish universities a revenue stream

      Now if Mr Williamson can apply a cap to that then he has declared England as a dictatorship and could proceed to deny Scotland free trade over any other business the English government chose

      History shows this was the tactic the *British* used to starve Ireland

      There’s only one reason Gavin Williamson has been instructed to do this, it shouldn’t take a minute to work out but take your time

    62. schrodingers cat says:


      in an attempt to attract the snp list voters we create an new anti snp indy list part???


    63. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC (1.01) –

      I see where you’re coming from and sympathise entirely but I don’t believe anyone can be blamed for feeling disenchanted with the SNP. The reasons for their behaviour will all emerge in due course but that doesn’t help us right now.

      A new party wouldn’t have the same burden as the smaller parties you listed. The main difference is that all of those parties existed before the 2011 SNP victory and talk of indyref1 started in earnest. The sole exception is RISE which was, I suppose, a development of the RIC. And RIC is not a model to be sniffed at – its purpose was clear and it did valuable work on the ground, punching well above its weight when it came to reaching ‘ordinary’ punters. The others had already been laying out their stalls (literally) for years, and folk associated them, for better or worse, with specific (and often contentious) policies. The new party wouldn’t have any such burden.

      It would be a bespoke party, designed for one job and one job only – maximising the number of pro-indy voices in the SP. If that’s clearly understood then it will do well, especially if the other small pro-indy parties stand aside or, better yet, help us.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      re. the GRA. It’s not a case of political taste, it’s a case of do you support the rule-of-law and justice, or do you support totalitarianism. If you are happy for the proposals to proceed, then you’re clearly not the sharpest tool in the box.

    65. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Dr Jim

      I have no idea what answer you are looking for but would assume that he fears that covid will adversely effect the number of overseas students wishing to attend Universities in England, which will leave a big hole in their revenue stream that the government is unable/unwilling to fill in.

      So he has taken the time honored route to solving his English problem – Make someone else pick up the tab.

      Scotland has been that “someone else” for most of our adult lives.

    66. schrodingers cat says:

      I don’t believe anyone can be blamed for feeling disenchanted with the SNP
      no, i dont, but that isnt what is being discussed, the point is to convince snp voters not to waste their list votes on the snp and what is the best way to do that

      It would be a bespoke party, designed for one job and one job only – maximising the number of pro-indy voices in the SP.


      And opposing gra bill? and the feminist agenda, and it hates nicola and the snp etc

      it will fail.

    67. Beaker says:

      @dramfineday says:
      30 May, 2020 at 11:29 am

      “…Bloody Stupid Johnson…”

      Did Terry Pratchett know something we didn’t at the time he wrote his books? 🙂

    68. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      re. the GRA. It’s not a case of political taste,

      no it isnt, its a case of what is the best method of convincing snp voters not to waste their list votes on the snp and what is the best way to do that.

      i couldnt give a fuck about the anti chicks with dicks brigade

    69. Ron Maclean says:

      @Dr Jim 1:25pm

      That seems to breach the Treaty of Union and is surely worth a challenge?

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Get over yourself, ffs, or do you want me to consider you a friend of fascism?

      Forensic Psychiatry, Neuroscience, and the Law

    71. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 1.25
      While it is shit…if I remember right !
      In 2014 the University’s were actively against Indy,but if it turns out that Westminster will be narrowing the pond our unis get to fish in then they might very well get on board…Ever cloud and all that!!!

    72. schrodingers cat says:

      or do you want me to consider you a friend of fascism?

      ffs cameron, get over yersel

    73. Ian Brotherhood says:

      There’s no need for a new party even to criticise the SNP, Nicola, TRA activists or anyone else.

      The ‘boilerplate’ manifesto could be viewed as a way of kicking aside difficult issues, and that’s precisely what it would do. It shouldn’t be seen as a hindrance e.g. ‘What is your party going to do about (insert issue here)?’ ‘We’ll deal with all of these things as and when we’re independent because we’re not properly free to deal with them right now.’

      Everything – and that means *everything* – would be secondary to pushing for indy.

      Positivity all the way – nae haters.

    74. Ottomanboi says:

      “I don’t feel we need to be independent for me to feel confident in my Scottish identity. I think Scotland is pretty comfortable in its identity. We won’t need independence to preserve it… if we don’t become independent, it won’t disappear; it isn’t under existential threat”.
      (Nicola Sturgeon)
      Spoken like an authentic politician, hedging her bets….she should go far.

    75. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      The only problem is the likely animosity between prominent figures in both organisations.

      I genuinely hope that they are all big enough to bury the hatchet but am not confident.

      Despite saying earlier that I have re-joined the SNP, it is likely that on mathematical grounds, such a party would be likely to get my second vote.

      I have never for one second considered voting other than for what I believed would be the the most likely way to further the cause of independence – spoiling my ballot paper did get serious consideration at the last election.

    76. jfngw says:

      @Dr Jim

      Does seem to fly in the face of the Articles of Union and trading, as they now treat universities as businesses.

      Although the Act of Union is a pretty useless document in protecting the people in Scotland, it didn’t even have the foresight to state they could only change Scotland’s law if the majority of elected Scots agreed. I believe it merely stated ‘for the better’ although I would contest that many of the law changes have been for the better of Scotland.

      I see BTL at the Herald are having brain haemorrhages after reading this article, just streams of lies:

    77. Stuart MacKay says:

      Willie @9:19am

      Never say never, but Sharpesville is a bit of stretch as the fundamentals are all wrong – maybe after 50 or 100 years of outright oppression.

      A better comparison is Hong Kong. You could compare the Umbrella Movement with AUOB. With initially, a somewhat sympathetic leadership. After that Westminster starts being a more assertive in it’s choice of leadership and elections get a little less representative. Then it all goes to hell. Police pepper spraying and tasering protestors or people simply trying to exercise their democratic rights is a short step from there and entirely foreseeable.

      The miners strike in the early 1980s tells us that the government will be willing to go at least this far.

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Col. Blimp IV –

      ‘…likely animosity between prominent figures.’

      Evergreen problem.

      Have been discussing this with another Winger off-thread. Big egos, jealousy, secrets & lies…

      Put it this way – if we can’t get enough big hitters to be civil to one another for as long as it takes to plan The Great Escape then we don’t deserve to escape at all.

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I am trying to defend your human rights through the application of science and law. So no, I’ll just carry on supporting the principle of universality. TA. 😉

      Download of the Week: “Law and the Cognitive Science of Ordinary Concepts” by Tobia (Plus One More)

    80. jfngw says:

      @ColBlimp IV @ 12:30

      There is no just going back to the EU, we are already out, we have no MEP’s. The only option is to rejoin and under the current EU regulations for members, all the UK opt-outs gone.

      We have to do this ourselves, the EU may welcome us but they are not going to do the hard lifting to make us independent. Many EU members have already given heavy hints but they will not intervene in the UK. We either get off our knees and do it or become England’s North Britain colony, meek and subservient (it’s worrying how many Scots see this as the best option).

    81. schrodingers cat says:

      no idea what you’re prattling on about cameron

    82. Bob Mack says:

      Where do we find these bland list MPs that have no feelings on things such as GRA ,even though it’s under another name?.
      Those who will vote SNP policy through regardless of how many feel about it.

      From the existing ranks of SNP activists, who would need to resign their membership. Everybody else has opinions.

      I want another party, but I want it populated by people who can keep things in check and on track.

    83. Julia Gibb says:

      I agree with Ian Brotherhood. The key policy should be Independence. The first Holyrood election post Independence will have parties presenting their manifesto for Scotland. We will shape Scotland from that point on. It will NOT be a mini UK.

      At the moment no one can predict what Scotland will look like in 50 years. That will be determined by those not yet born.

    84. schrodingers cat says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      if we can’t get enough big hitters to be civil to one another for as long as it takes to plan The Great Escape then we don’t deserve to escape at all.

      a compromise could start with a party that wouldnt take its seats and redirect their entire salaries into a fund for the yes campaign?

    85. Col.Blimp IV says:

      “…a development of the RIC”

      I must have been looking the other way when they showed up.

      Poor auld Donald Anderson … he must have thought the Black and Tans had re-formed. LoL

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Exactly, you don’t have a clue but think your some sort of expert and want folk to follow you. This is the sort of political ‘strategy’ that has gotten Scotland where it is today.

      The Psychological Foundations of Behavioral Law
      and Economics

    87. schrodingers cat says:

      Julia Gibb says:
      30 May, 2020 at 2:15 pm
      I agree with Ian Brotherhood. The key policy should be Independence.

      but it isnt, it is a pro indy anti snp anti gra party.

      when the ONLY policy it should have is indy

    88. schrodingers cat says:

      hey cameron, you still here sonny?

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Eh pops, you still a selfish fanny?

    90. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack says:
      Where do we find these bland list MPs that have no feelings on things such as GRA ,even though it’s under another name?.

      we dont, we find people willing to stand, win, ensure a pro indy majority, get rid of a heap of unionist msps, turn up for the inauguration, re direct their entire salary for 5 years to the yes movement, then never turn up again at holyrood. go back to their dayly lives

      ill put you down as no 1 on the list in your region?

    91. Col.Blimp IV says:


      I only mentioned the EU exit because so many see it as being something that should be reversed.

      Personally I would have voted LEAVE, were it not for the prospect of creating an electoral wedge between Scotland and that other place.

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      Meanwhile, the Scottish government guts a legal respect for human rights in Scotland, and destroys the potential for our self-determination.

      Natural law, human rights and women’s rights: an investigation into the foundations and limitations of appeals to women’s rights outside the law

    93. jfngw says:

      @schrodingers cat

      I can’t see how that can work, people have other issues than just independence, you will attract just a section of the population. You need to have policies on education and health.

      And what happens if the SNP re-introduce GRA and can pass it because the list party have not taken their seats.

      To have any effect you need a good deal of seats, I don’t believe you will achieve that on a single policy.

    94. Bob Mack says:


      In effect you are creating a Trojan horse. Simply to minimise Unionist votes in the Holyrood Chamber. Therefore you are asking people,even with no particular interest in politics, to stand initially then fade into the background evermore or at least till the next election.

      I like this idea. It has merit.

      The only concern I have, and It is genuine, is that it does nothing to moderate the Woke brigade who currently are setting the agenda for a reluctant majority.

      This had to be dealt with.

    95. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat

      “re direct their entire salary for 5 years to the yes movement”

      You didn’t think that one through.

      In their day job they would go straight on to the High Rate of income tax and would be ineligible for unemployment or any other benefits that they would ordinarily entitled to.

      And the only reason that a second party is being considered is because the current SNP MSP’s have proven themselves unwilling and or incapable of making meaningful strides towards independence.

    96. jfngw says:


      Hmm, that sounds no better than the duplicity I see at Westminster. Using a policy you agree with to achieve the same goal but as a separate country. So we would have made enemies of England (and that’s how they will take it) and then snub the EU, it’s certainly a plan I suppose.

    97. schrodingers cat says:

      jfngw says:

      I can’t see how that can work, people have other issues than just independence, you will attract just a section of the population. You need to have policies on education and health.

      true, they do, but this new ILP’s entire raison d’etre is to convince snp voters not waste their list vote on the snp which only ensures loads of unionists msps get elected. this new ILP wont convince any snp voters to vote for them on the list by being virulently anti snp??


      And what happens if the SNP re-introduce GRA and can pass it because the list party have not taken their seats.
      tough, they will only be elected because the snp voters lend them their vote on the list

      To have any effect you need a good deal of seats, I don’t believe you will achieve that on a single policy.
      thats my point, any attempt to put forward a party which is seen as anything other than an indy booster party will fail, why? cos many have already tried it and failed

    98. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Bob Mack

      The New Party’s slogan…

      Scotland Free or a Desert – and no(Drag)-Queens!

    99. Willie says:

      @ Dr Jim 12.42.

      Good to see you back posting. Trust you are well and that it wasn’t a dose of the scunner that stopped you posting.

    100. Colin Alexander says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Even if Holyrood were 100% “pro-indy” whatever that means, so what?

      For as long as Scotland’s people / politicians accept UK Parliament as sovereign as the basis of the UK state and Scotland remains part of that UK, what can even 100% Holyrood colonial servants of the Empire achieve? “Moral pressure”. Sturgeon’s failed strategy.

      It does nothing except force Murdo Fraser etc to get their 30 pieces of silver from a think tank, lobbying organisation, the Lords, or heaven forbid, get a real job.

      UK Parliament can ignore, shut down, amend the powers of the colonial parliament or any number of things that an unlimited sovereign power can use.

      More “pro-indy” British parliamentarians means just sucking more indy people into working for the Empire, swearing allegiance to the interfering Empress, and accepting the Imperial constitution in its entirety.

      It’s called: playing the British game.

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Nah, this has nothing to do with my sexuality or the sexuality of others. I understand the rule-of-law and so I can respect and defend it. That doesn’t appear to be the case with yourself.


    102. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:

      “re direct their entire salary for 5 years to the yes movement”

      You didn’t think that one through.

      In their day job they would go straight on to the High Rate of income tax and would be ineligible for unemployment or any other benefits that they would ordinarily entitled to.
      msps get 70k a year, im sure we could compensate them for this and it would still leave a hefty sum in the pot for the yes campaign

      And the only reason that a second party is being considered is because the current SNP MSP’s have proven themselves unwilling and or incapable of making meaningful strides towards independence.

      no it isnt, it is because the electoral arithmetic of the d’hondt system means that 850k list snp votes in 7/8 regions elected one snp msp.

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      Contemporary British constitutionalism and the GRA proposals constitute Brexitania’s legal turn towards eugenics. ;(

      The embodied brain: towards a radical embodied cognitive neuroscience

    104. Al-Stuart says:

      Chris Cairns,

      Thankyou for your genius.

      I love the two horses. Perhaps they are actually jackasses.

      Am watching channel 504 with the entire re-run of the 1997 General Election for some much needed non-Covid normality.

      It is uplifting to see a day on 1st May 1997 when EVERY TORY MP WAS SACKED FROM SCOTLAND.

      There is portent from 1997 to the future of Nicola Sturgeon.


      I just watched the young, seemingly good, well spoken, politically astute Tony Blair become prime minister.

      The feeling of getting rid of that fag-end grey creature, John Major was a relief.

      The thought of a new prime minister and a fresh, decent set of honourable policies was a breath of fresh air.

      Blair had little option but to follow George Bush. Blair became his poodle. Hundreds of U.K. service personnel lost their lives. Hundreds of thousand of Iraqi citizens lost theirs too.

      Alex Salmond received dog’s abuse for calling out the sleekit Cheshire grinning Prime Minister agony Blair.

      Blair’s historic legacy was set. A war criminal who escaped justice but forever the puke bucket of public opprobrium.

      Fast forward 23 years and we have many Tory MPs back in Scotland and a new form of Tony Blair in the personage of Scottish manager Nicola Sturgeon.

      Both Blair and Sturgeon seemed great at the start, but ended up FALLING VERY FAR from public grace. The do or will occupy a twighlight zone of ex-politicians, the names of whom are tarnished forever. Living as political ghosts shunned by all decent people.

      As for the past echoing into the future?

      The common denominator is Alex Salmond. He called out Blair. Alex had Blair’s number long before the public had cottoned on.

      In a few months, likely early in 2021 a few weeks before the next Holyrood election, Alex Salmond will publish a forensic account and he WILL call out the -("Tractor" - Ed)ous- ingrate Nicola Sturgeon and her disgraced top civil servant along with revealing the deeds of small people in high office from the police to COPFS and civil service whereupon a mass clearout and likely charges of malfeasance in public office shall follow.

      I empathise with all of those decent and honourable SNP supporters who placed their faith in Nicola Sturgeon. I have been in the position with my leader, Tony Blair, turning out to being a duplicitous lying piece of disgusting sleezy excrement,

      The same fate awaits St Nicola. She has managed to keep Scotland in the Union in her sleekit way. Squandering countless mandates to achieve our Independence. But her political demise will be swift and utterly devastating. It is unwise to comment further about her at this time.

      There is a great comfort in these dog days of politics and dystopian pandemic that the finest First Minister Scotland ever had, Alex Salmond, is hard at work writing THAT book. It will be catalyst of “EVENTS” that will echo and impact far, far beyond the confines of Scotland.

      The U.K., will become four independent nations. It will work.

      As for domestic politics, the McWoke Brigade will be recognized for their narcissistic self-interest fifth columnist activities and banished from any and all offices they obtained by dishonest means.

      Many well know political names close to Sturgeon will dissolve into the footnotes of history.

      Scotland will gain its Independence as a new, refreshed SNP along with a possible second political of Independence shall emerge after STURGEONGATE.

      Likely the second party of Indy will focus on the LIST anomaly that allows so many Tories such as Murdo (never won an election) Fraser to get in by the back door.

      Covid-19 will be eradicated with either a vaccine or a pharma-cocktail similar to that which has extinguished the phrase “death sentence” to the poor souls afflicted with HIV and ensured they now have a long and decent lifespan.

      The toxic Sturgeon and her sophisticated sophistry that euthenaised any possibility of Scottish Independence between 2014 and 2021 are near to an end.

      In the midst of viral death and political sickness, we do have hope.

      I for one aim to purchase Alex Salmond’s book within hours of publication. Therein lays justice, hope and political renewal from the narcoleptic faux party “leading” Scotland today.

    105. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat

      On a serious note, I have not been politically active for years.

      In conversation with family, friends workmates etc. some who have never been particularly politicaly aware far less active.

      I have without much in the way of solicitation detected a growing disenchantment with woke propaganda, principally from the advertising, film, TV and music industries also a distinct strengthening of pro-independence feelings.

      I think a pro independence anti-GRA party is on to a winner.

    106. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack says:

      The only concern I have, and It is genuine, is that it does nothing to moderate the Woke brigade who currently are setting the agenda for a reluctant majority.

      This had to be dealt with.

      yes, it does, but i think it is currently being defeat within the snp itself, regardless, you need to decide what this new party is for, is it to game the system, get rid of the unionist msps or is it a new party with its own agenda which also supports indy?

      i merely point out that it is my belief, that only a party specifically created to game the list vote for us has any real chance of winning support from the snp voters on the list.

      i have sympathy for the dislike of the new gender laws etc, i really do, and their is probably space for a new party which has this as its core, it might even win a seat or 2.

      but that isnt what i am suggesting, im suggesting creating a party that snp voters can trust explicitly to lend their list vote to.

    107. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:
      I think a pro independence anti-GRA party is on to a winner.

      thats fine, no, really it is. i think it may even win a seat or 2, but more likely it will go the same way as rise, the greens, ssp, solidarity etc.

      the party i am suggesting is designed to convince the snp voters to trust them with their list vote, game the system and get rid of unionists and ensure an indy majority

    108. schrodingers cat says:

      The toxic Sturgeon and her sophisticated sophistry




      you still think a wos new ILP will convince snp voters to back them??

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      Ghandi was, alike many other Indians, an Imperial colonial servant of the British Empire.

      He was like the SNP, a believer in working within the Empire to make things better. Until the penny dropped.

      He realised the lot of Indians and India could only be significantly improved by ending British Empire rule.

      He also came to the conclusion that would only happen when the British realised India would be ungovernable by the British and the British Empire’s Indian colonial administrators / governers, such as the Maharajahs, without the cooperation of ordinary Indians.

      He did not want British evil: the use of violence, competing with Indian evil. As that would replace British evil with Indian evil. Where evil prevails people suffer.

      Therefore, he advocated non-violent, non-cooperation and non-violent civil resistance to British rule.

      Contrast that with the position taken by the SNP: Scotland must get s30 consent from the UK state to even hold a democratic vote. “We are a party of (British) law and order”.

    110. callmedave says:

      Herding cats is a bit of a job on here. 🙂


      Colonial BBC web sites have numbers but both big Auntie darn Sarf web sites have nothing except jolly hockey stick stories on easing the lock down and news from America.

      Even The SUN has stopped reporting numbers in the UK today.

      N. Ireland……….01………Total……..522…BBC
      England……!……….Total no data…….


    111. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat

      “no it isnt, it is because the electoral arithmetic of the d’hondt system means that 850k list snp votes in 7/8 regions elected one snp msp.”

      You are right enough, I even made a similar point myself further up the thread.

      But what makes holding a gun to the heads of SNP MSP’s necessary is their track record of failing to use every mandate they have ever been given.

      Which is why I have renewed my membership – To remind the backsliding bastards why they joined in the first place(where applicable) and to inform the careerists that their bollox are on the line if they do not get with the program.

    112. Ian McLean says:

      Drawing a horse to look like Hancock is genius. Using the other end of the horse would have been easier.

    113. Bob Mack says:


      Let’s forget about Nicola. In terms of this plan that is a side issue.

      It does however become relevant after the election. Does Nicola use this numerical advantage to push for Indy?.

      If I knew that for certain then I would definitely go along with it despite reservations.

      I will however use Ms Cherry as my touchstone on how the SNP
      are dealing with these internal issues.

    114. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV

      sounds like a plan, something i have been doing too.

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      You can lead a horse to water…

      Embodying the Mind and Representing the Body

    116. jfngw says:

      @Colin Alexander

      The UK could not keep hold of India, it no longer had the resources or support of the US, the US wanted to be the new super power.

      Much easier to retain their hold on Scotland as around 30% will willing join their campaign, I think Ian Murray would be at the head of the queue along with most of the Tory & LibDem’s politicians. Don’t believe they won’t use force, they always have in the past.

      Plus those in power in the US want Scotland in the UK, some for military reasons other for personal gain.

    117. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat

      I agree that to maximize votes the SNP and a New Party cannot be seen to be knocking lumps out of one and other.

      And the voters would have to be schooled in the nuance’s of an electoral system most find unfathomable.

      But as old rubber lips once said…

    118. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m still trying to keep it real. 😉

      Legal Realism and the Social Contract:
      Fuller’s Public Jurisprudence of Form, Private Jurisprudence of Substance

    119. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack

      there are few plans or routes nicola can take, im not sure which one that will be or how WM will react.

      but there are some things we do know

      1st july, cut off point for eu brexit deal.there wont be one

      31st dec, we leave the eu with no deal

      the corona virus ensures we cant hold indyref2 before xmas, with or without a s30

      2021 holyrood will be by default a vote on scottish independence how big a victory will influence how WM reacts

      that is why i am pushing for a new ILP that snp voters can trust to lend them their list vote. it is the one thing that we can do

    120. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:
      But what makes holding a gun to the heads of SNP MSP’s necessary is their track record of failing to use every mandate they have ever been given.

      2014, we lost indyref1

      2015ge we won on a ticket saying no indyref2

      2016 he we won with a mandate for indyref2

      2017 ge we got humped on a manifesto for indyref2

      thats why we drew back from pursuing indyref2, took it off the table until brexit was known

      2019 ge we won and have a mandate for indyref2

      which “every mandate they have ever been given” are you talking about?

    121. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:
      I agree that to maximize votes the SNP and a New Party cannot be seen to be knocking lumps out of one and other.

      looking at the comments btl here, any new ILP would do well to steer clear of wos

    122. Republicofscotland says:

      “couldnt give a fuck about the anti chicks with dicks brigade”

      Schrödinger’s cat.

      As Ted said in a movie, there are no chicks with dicks, only men with breasts. ?

    123. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –

      Dunno if we’ve crossed wires somewhere or you’re thinking of someone else but I’ve never advocated that the new indy party have any association with Wings whatsoever.

      Just last night, Mike Small was tweeting about the ‘Wings cult’. Doesn’t matter what any of us here feel about that insult, it’s ‘out there’ that matters and a lot of folk distrust WOS for all sorts of reasons, mostly ignorance. So, no, I wouldn’t want the new party to be overtly associated with this place.

      Doesn’t mean that individuals who happen to support Wings couldn’t stand and do well. Chris Law was a regular Winger long before he became an MP – I don’t recall it ever being held against him.

    124. Colin Alexander says:

      schrodiners cat

      Please can you explain why you put the youtube link directly to Cameron?


    125. schrodingers cat says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      im merely pointing out that with so much over anti snp and nicola comments on this site now that any new ILP would probably be wise to avoid close association.

      either way, it shouldnt stop us discussing what for the new ILP should take?

    126. schrodingers cat says:

      what for = what form

    127. schrodingers cat says:

      what for = what form

    128. schrodingers cat says:

      Doesn’t mean that individuals who happen to support Wings couldn’t stand and do well.

      agree 100% with this

    129. schrodingers cat says:

      @Colin Alexander

      hey coco, did i forget to tell you to fukc off today?

    130. schrodingers cat says:



    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      Colin Alexander
      Thanks but I think it best things are left where they are. There is nothing to gain from breathing life into a simple difference in perspectives. I’m not particularly stressed out it and I doubt the cat is either.

      Jurisprudence Between Science and the Humanities

    132. Colin Alexander says:


      Continuing the comparisons with the British Empire’s attempted suppression of India’s independence: The British jailed Ghandi and arrested members of the Indian National Congress.

      Kinda rings a bell with recent events in Scotland, doesn’t it?

    133. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I somehow knew you could look out for yourself. 😉

    134. CameronB Brodie says:

      We shouldn’t forget we’ve got Cummings to thank for Brexit, which represents the death of the natural law tradition and the principle of “universality” in the British isles.

      Remember, British human rights do not afford the same level of legal protection as international human rights. Otherwise, Scots would not be getting dragged out of the EU against their expresses political will.


    135. callmedave says:

      WM update:

      N. Ireland……….01………Total……..522…BBC

      UK………….today…..215……….Total……38376…WM Gov

    136. robbo says:

      This is one hellava rant to be fair- UK strategy -well hmm
      N0 7 is great LMAO

    137. robert graham says:

      2.44 Colin Alexander

      This is not the reply you usually receive Colin ,
      Your post should be a reminder to all who are promoting this and that new way of doing things , the Magic formula , sorry folks there aint one .

      Until and unless Nicola can command a viable majority that wants Scotland to be a independent country putting it plainly yer fkd

      Thats right no ifs buts ands or maybes unless a majority want it yer on to Plums , your energy might be better served by instead of attacking her personally hows about helping her for a change , give her something to work with , lets for a Minute believe she has a better grip on the mood of the Public in Scotland than anyone here .

      Finally I think Colin is getting abuse way more that is fair from a lot of folk here , my only encounter with Colin was ages ago , it was about Tail Docking of Dogs , and you know what he was right and i was misinformed , so give the guy a break and actually read what he types before you give him abuse.

      Nope we aint related and money hasn’t changed hands

    138. robbo says:

      robbo says:
      30 May, 2020 at 5:22 pm
      New poll-boomer if correct!

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      The cat’s passion is a source of hope and reassurance to me, that not all Scots are prepared to be treated like cattle. Colin is clearly hostile to the current SNP but he deserves reasonable consideration, IMHO.

      The Wrath of Reason and The Grace of Sentiment: Vindicating Emotion in Law.

    140. Allium says:

      Don’t think the Wings Cult accusers matter very much. They wouldn’t vote for a splinter party anyway, and they don’t have much influence (though if they do, all publicity is good publicity). Tbh I think a polarising figure is needed in order to cut through. Varying sorts of polarising figures seem to have done rather well in recent years, often from a late, standing start.

      One of the reasons the indyref was lost was through people playing too safe and nicey nicey. And since then Wheesht For Indy has been a disaster for the SNP.

      Of course its all immaterial if Rev Stu doesn’t want to do it. I always assumed he was as tough as leather, but I think I was wrong there, and the last couple of years must have taken a huge toll regardless.

    141. Ron Maclean says:

      @robert graham 5:07PM

      Nicola Sturgeon is the leader of the SNP, a political party with 100,000+ members. The primary aim of the SNP is to obtain independence for Scotland. During her more than five year tenure it is difficult to see what Nicola Sturgeon has done to achieve that aim. Her failure might be explained by her compromised position as First Minister of the puppet parliament at Holyrood.

      Given that she doesn’t seem able to help us gain independence what do you suggest we do to help her achieve her party’s main aim?

    142. Julia Gibb says:

      @ schrodingerscat

      I should have been clearer sorry. I agree with a list party focused on Independence. That is it! Not anti SNP. All politicians have personal views on every topic under the Sun so your arguement has some merit. However every Political Party will have, and are entitled to have, a wide range of views.

      That is the purpose of Hustings. If you don’t like what you hear you don’t vote for them!

      Those who attack you so often fail to realise that they have become a little cult themselves.
      At least you can produce an arguement without cutting and pasting some drivel sourced on the Internet.

    143. susan says:

      I won’t vote SNP on the 1st poll unless I feel the msp is gender critical, I will spoil my ballot. For the 2nd list I will vote for a pro Indy anti GRA/ Hate bill candidate. If the SNP aren’t happy then fuck them.

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      Julia Gibb
      You what? I’ve not looked at this stuff in roughly three decades. So can you suggest a better way for me to communicate specialist knowledge of complex legal concepts?

      Law, Gender and Sexuality: sources and methods in socio-legal research

    145. Keith fae Leith says:

      schrodingers cat
      I rarely comment & recognize your handle from old of reading BTL, please don’t take this as me having a go, but you seem to be the 1 holding court on this thread. Ian B’hood, would appreciate your feeback too.

      1 big problem that I have (there may well be others on here who agree) is that the 850k SNP voters last time out are not necessarily SNP voters, they happened to lend their vote to the SNP at that election.

      I have regularly voted SNP in the 18 odd years I’ve been eligible to do so. Based on my experience of interacting with my SNP councilor (Happens to be council leader too), Constituency MSP & MP that they are not pursuing Independence.

      The MP, whilst a good orator & investigator at committee level in WM seems content in scoring political points on everything bar the Constitution.

      The MSP has the odd moment in the chamber but is part of the woke cabal of science deniers, that is his priority. He also trousers an extra bonus by having a Cabinet portfolio for a matter which isn’t devolved.

      The council leader has his hands tied partially with being in coalition with Labour, but there is no improvement in services, there continues to money thrown down a money pit chasing white elephants, nothing is done to minimize the Imperial subjugation of advertising, marches, flegs etc on the streets. Another who chases the Woke vote, celebrations & tweets out the yingyang from his personal & the council accounts on anything promoted by Stonewall & the various science denying Woke fraternity, but silence on anniversaries of Historic moments in Scottish history.

      As you’ve given your age before, can you in you comparative wisdom, look at that & not see New Labour shining through in their actions?

      “A vote for the SNP & get an Indy ref” is the new “Only a vote for Labour can bring about the end to the House of Lords” My Holyrood Constituency vote is entirely dependent on what goes in the manifesto. No Indy plebiscite (regardless of WM approval) no vote from me. My Regional vote is also up for grabs.

    146. John from Fife says:

      O/T speaking about observing the lockdown.
      Last night Kirsty Wark introduced Newsnight from Glasgow but last week she introduced it from London. How did she get to Glasgow.

    147. Alec Lomax says:

      Susan @ 5.40
      The SiU will heartily applaudyou.

    148. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Keith fae Leith –

      That whole thing about votes being ‘loaned’ to candidates is soooo important. Look at the actual fuckin state of the Labour Party in Scotland now.

      And there are some SNP MPs/MSPs who appear to take votes for granted every bit as much as those Labour roasters. No point naming names because anyone who’s interested enough already knows who they are. I totally sympathise with Susan at 5.40. It would be well-nigh impossible for me to vote for one of the Wokies but I would do if necessary in the hope that their unusual hobby-horse (which is fashionable so, by definition, won’t be five years hence) will be shown up for the irrational, divisive, misogynist nonsense that it is.

      The behaviour of the SNP reps you have experience of is surely replicated across the country. I’m not suggesting that these characters deserve sympathy – after all, they knew what the job(s) entailed when they stood for election. The simple fact is that many of them must, by now, be jaded. The excitement of that long build-up to indyref1 has long-gone and there’s no prospect of similar action on the horizon.

      That’s why the initiative and energy now has to come from us. If only the fuck we could stop bickering long enough to reach decisions on the absolute basics then we might get somewhere!


    149. schrodingers cat says:

      Julia Gibb and
      Keith fae Leith

      i think you miss the point im trying to make. the ILP i propose isnt really a party, is a foil, a mechanism to game the d’hondt electoral system

      why? because this is the form i believe which would have the most chance of succeeding

      the type of traditional party you suggest is fine and i believe the new scotland independence party recently launched is exactly your ticket

      it wont win any seats though

    150. robert graham says:

      yes Ron i know the history the same as everyone here , still dosnt make the rest who dont want independence change their minds , i am not arguing with you I dont have a remedy but i guess neither does anyone else here just an opinion , the same as anyone else .

    151. schrodingers cat says:


      after Speaking with the women from the newly formed Scottish independence party, it appears to be everything wingers want, pro indy, anti gra, feminist and pro disability helping. so to that extent, this area is covered and will happen, i doubt they will win any seats but good luck to them regardless.

      does that still leave room for a party like the one i describe? one which can really tempt the snp voters to lend them their vote?

    152. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Graham

      Thank you.

    153. Colin Alexander says:

      When Ireland initially sought independence there was little in the way of international justice and the British Empire still ruled much of the world (just about). The British Empire could do whatever it wanted in Ireland.

      Today we have the United Nations, EU and international law; TV and internet. Today the UK’s power and influence, whilst still considerable is a tiny fraction of what it once was.

      Scotland’s fighting can be done politically and in the courts under the scrutiny of a watching world. Scotland’s case is unique though, we aren’t Ireland, or India or Catalonia.

      But, as others have highlighted, we need to convince a majority of the population of Scotland to take back control to Scotland. So the people of Scotland make the decisions for Scotland, instead of UK Parliament.

    154. schrodingers cat says:

      That’s why the initiative and energy now has to come from us. If only the fuck we could stop bickering long enough to reach decisions on the absolute basics then we might get somewhere!

      im up for it
      not sure we can do anything before xmas cos of the virus and i doubt nicola would come out in favour of he2021 becoming a defacto indy plebicite, she shouldnt announce this until the manifesto launch. dont give the unionist the time to change the constitution

      we could organise the new ILP i suggest to reduce the unionists reps to as few as possible, if it had widespread backing it could become the main opposition

      but on wings part, if the polls continue to show +50% yes/snp then the idea of he2021 becoming an indy vote will gain traction, will we need the wbb2 for jan?

    155. schrodingers cat says:

      1 big problem that I have (there may well be others on here who agree) is that the 850k SNP voters last time out are not necessarily SNP voters, they happened to lend their vote to the SNP at that election.

      this is exactly, and i mean exactly what the ssp, solidarity the greens and rise all claimed. so tell me something,

      1.02million voted snp on the constituency vote, were they lend the snp their votes their too?

      snp voters not really snp voters….

      dave get the fukcin’ door

    156. Julia Gibb says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I never mentioned you!

      Does it have to be about you?

    157. schrodingers cat says:

      one thing i will say though

      if we get 50+% of the constituency vote in he2021 and wm still refuse to agree to scotlands independence, then the entire yes movement should move into a phase of civil disobedience

      that we have a mandate will be unequivocal, no one can argue against such actions

      thats when the real fun starts

      so keep an eye out for james kelly’s opinion poll

      i dunno why more people are not wide eyed at the latest polling for us, the figures are real game changers

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –

      Are you on The Twitter?

      If so could you please DM sometime @ianbhood ??? Nowt urgent, just had someone asking if you were on it – it’s someone who appears to be blocked from commenting here. Is following the discussion but can’t contribute.


    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      Julia Gibb
      I’m paranoid though I may have reason. 😉

    160. bipod says:

      Its absolutely shocking just how much airtime the bbc has given the 3 scientists on SAGE who have spoken out about easing the lockdown too soon whilst ignoring every single other scientist and expert who expresses doubt over the lockdown strategy. The same scientists were probably dead against the easing of the lockdown rules 3 weeks ago in England because of the second peak or wave, well we are still waiting for it.

      I suspect we are going to have doomsdayers predicting disaster every step of the way out of this painfully slow release of lockdown and the media will lap it up.

    161. Dan says:

      schrodingers cat says at 3:36 pm

      2021 holyrood will be by default a vote on scottish independence how big a victory will influence how WM reacts

      that is why i am pushing for a new ILP that snp voters can trust to lend them their list vote. it is the one thing that we can do

      First point, every election since 2014 has been contested over the Indy Scotland question by unionist parties, right down to local council elections.
      If we actually knew the SNP will contest the 2021 Holyrood election with a manifesto that specifically states what you presume then fine, game on and a Pro-Indy List Party can plan accordingly with a boilerplate as IanB terms it manifesto.
      If however the mandate driven (for some things but not others) SNP do not include such a statement in their manifesto then there is no mandate for Indy as folk (even unionist leaning folk) will have been voting SNP to continue the status quo of them administrating the limited devolved powers so they can get all the perks like free prescriptions or Uni Ed. for their bairns.

      Second point, it’s already been highlighted that there are more YES supporters than SNP voters. What’s left of Labour support is iirc approx. 40% Indy minded now.
      You just cannot presume all SNP Holyrood Constituency votes are from avid SNP Pro-Indy supporters, as some of the votes cast will be tactically placed for various reasons. And that is fine, as the calculations show we don’t need all those SNP voters to give their second vote to the Indy List Party. The more the merrier obviously, but if we’re giving an ILP our votes just to sit in Holyrood for another 5 years and not progressing Indy whilst the SNP roll out policies that most folk don’t want then fuck facilitating that.

      The longer this drags on the more we will find ourselves diverging away from EU standards and regulations, and also getting tied up in goodness knows what kind of trade deals the cowboys in the cartoon above have in mind for themselves.

    162. schrodingers cat says:

      new rocket launches in under an hour

      can be seen over scotland east to west in the south 10 mins after launch

    163. jfngw says:

      One thing this virus has highlighted is that Scotland needs its own channel with its own news. The BBC (probably STV too as they use London news) has been hopeless in its main news programmes reporting the lockdown position of Scotland, and even when they have it is often inaccurate.

      They have caused confusion in Scotland by using UK continuously when they mean England. I wonder how many deaths sit at the feet of these broadcasters and their inaccurate reporting. Is there any other country in the world that would have its health message during a pandemic obfuscated by what in effect is a foreign broadcaster.

    164. jfngw says:

      @schrodingers cat

      The women who created the party are on the right track. What they need is visibility, how do they get that without a big name that attracts media attention, someone the public recognises not just the diehards on here. I’ll wait and see, they may have something planned.

      One thing we don’t need is too many independence list parties splitting that vote so they end up with no seats.

      @ian brotherhood

      Why does this banned person not just change their screen name and email, at a push if the ip is being logged use a vpn (opera browser has one built in).

    165. Dogbiscuit says:

      Kirsty Wark gets to travel around because she is considered a ‘vital worker’. It is vital that she keeps our propaganda levels up.By the way , all the covid spikes the ‘lockdown enthusiasts have been predicting haven’t happened in any of the States in America that have begun ending ‘lockdown’ none of the newly opened European states are reporting any ‘second wave of covid. I have to say I’m highly suspicious of Nicola Sturgeons motives in having us imprisoned for so long after evidence is showing it’s now safe to pull your head out of your hole.

    166. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @jfngw –


      Will pass that on, if the ‘banned person’ hasn’t already read your comment.


    167. cirsium says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, 12.22
      If the SNP isn’t interested in discussing independence, fair enough, but it’s coming anyway – the least we can hope for is that they’ll keep an eye on the family silver for as long as the process takes, otherwise we could find ourselves free in an asset-stripped wasteland.

      Ian, talking about the family silver and asset stripping, what is happening about Scotland’s water? It reminds me of Dewar and Blair quietly arranging for Scotland’s maritime border to be shifted.

    168. Keith fae Leith says:

      SC @ 6.45

      You have addressed someone called Dave while quoting my post.

      I don’t miss your point, I disagree with it, I don’t want a mini SNP who will vote through bad legislation without thought or critical thinking.

      I’ll happily get the door and address your point. The SNP have/had 100 odd thousand members, but over 1 million constituency votes. I was one of them. The problem as I see it, is that you think the SNP own those votes. The only votes they own are from party members. Everyone else has chosen to loan the party their vote.

      So this aggressive dismissal of those that disagree with you isn’t becoming.

      You were correct back in the last Holyrood election highlighting wasted List votes for the SNP & probably didn’t get the credit you deserve for pointing it out.

      But for you to sit there and say a party owns my vote because they happened to get it last time is insulting. It’s that level of thinking & disrespect to the eloctorate that has seen the Labour party in Scotland, going from 50 years dominant to the state they are in now, polling in 4th place on occasion.

      Is a good place to start if you want a summary of how the SNP are, in my view, treating me & thousands of others.

      The SNP OWN my vote?! Aye, as they say, right. I won my vote, Parties or individuals need to earn it at elections.

    169. schrodingers cat says:


      1st point is well made

      whether snp put indy in the manifesto is really down to the polls, ie, if they are 50% they would be very very tempted

      as for assuming all constituency snp voters are from avid snp voters, i dont, i am pointing out, that unless we can put forward a united, non controversial list option, these snp voters will simply ignore this new ILP as they have done before with other indy parties

      i campaigned to get the greens the list vote in 2016, i wouldnt say i was very successful. this time though, the EA is better understood by the electorate but i think the greens will get hammered in 2021 for voting against the snp. so we need a viable option that the snp voters can trust, that is the option i am trying to put forward

    170. Dogbiscuit says:

      This so called ‘pandemic’ appears to be the same level of fear propaganda as ‘climate emergency’ . Political debate is becoming a thing of the past especially I fear with Hate Speech Laws.Politics seems in the hands of fanatical dreamers but they are actually working for those vested business interests who will control ‘green.economy’Im still waiting to hear what the hell that means. The Oil companies Banks who finance it all.The banks own the debts we owe they also own the bailiffs. The richest people on the planet with their hands in the pockets of the poorest. My electricity bills skyrocket for the planet.I pay effectively a congestion charge as the cost you pay for parking outside your residence is dependent on the cars engine displacement effectively a congestion charge .Thats hellhole Edinburgh for you .Charged a fortune in tax based On a climate false alarm.SNP have nothing for me . Pandemic is not the first trick that’s been played on the public. Sorry to learn that Ireland is more pussy whipped than we are

    171. jfngw says:

      Here we have Rabb, Gove and Johnson en-route to the latest SAGE meeting, Cummings in background thinking he is incognito and not breaking lockdown by doing Frank Spencer impression.

      Note the women on the committee have insisted on them wearing Mormon chastity garments due the reputed Lothario within the group.

    172. Keith fae Leith says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 6.04

      Thanks for taking the time to reply & I believe generally agree.

      I do agree that it’s for the voters to push, as the elected representatives are either unmotivated, under pressure not to or some other reason, not for me to judge.

      I’m not a fan of bickering and I only post on rare occasions when there’s something I feel strongly enough about to correct.

      To quote the wonderful fictional character CJ Cregg from the West Wing “You get my support the same way I get yours, when I agree with what you’re saying, or I don’t care about what you’re saying” To SC “Thjs time I disagree, so I will say so”

    173. schrodingers cat says:

      The problem as I see it, is that you think the SNP own those votes

      no, i dont think the snp own those votes, im pointing out that if the polls continue at the present +50%, i can see no reason to think they wont get them???

      the scottish independence party already exists, they are pro indy, anti gra etc, so go vote for them.

      but i still maintain they will not win any seats and that we need an ILP that the snp voters can trust

    174. schrodingers cat says:

      i dmed you on twitter ianbhood

    175. Beaker says:

      How many politicians does it take to change a lightbulb?

      One to change it and the other three to deny it ever happened.

      I’ll get me coat…

    176. schrodingers cat says:

      Beaker says:

      How many labour mps does it take to change a lightbulb?

      all of them 🙂

    177. Keith fae Leith says:


      I can only recall the Greens voting against the SNP on the OBAF (which despite it’s intention & popular support was bad legislation) & the annual Budget dance, which is pure political theatre every year. They vote it down at 1st reading open the floor for negotiation, only Greens negotiate, get a scrap then the budget passes.

      People I know who voted Green based on their Indy aspirations aren’t choosing to abandon them, because they didn’t vote with the SNP all the time, they are leaving because of the GRA & Hate crime Bill.

      I would say that I’m generally a Green voter, more of their manifesto ticks boxes for me, but they have always been smaller than the SNP, so common sense tells you that if Indy is a priority (it is) vote for the largest party pursuing it.

      Right now in theory that’s still the SNP, but I see no evidence.

      When looking for a party to get the votes of Women & Men who understand biological reality, who are seeking to abandon the SNP, can you seriously suggest a party who are even more deluded on that front?

      Maybe the Green party are more Pro Independence thank the SNP, shall have to see what’s in the manifesto’s.

      Though I seem to recall voting for another Indy ref if we were dragged out of the EU against our Sovereign will & that’s not happening.

      Your plan for a miniSNP List party might well garner votes, but the big tent of Indy supporters can make up their minds individually.

      BTW I’m 1 of the SNP voters you refer to at 7.50 your proposed miniSNP wouldn’t be a party I could personally trust.

    178. schrodingers cat says:

      but you already have the list party in the new sip party that you can vote for???

      whats the problem?

      i think it will fail for the same reason all the other indy parties did. you wouldnt vote for a mini snp party, fine you dont have to, but i maintain that an outwardly anti snp asking for snp voters to lend them their list votes wont work

    179. Dorothy Devine says:

      SCat, Thanks for that , great to watch the launch!

    180. Keith fae Leith says:


      It’s nor really a problem on my part. You think others are overestimating the allure of the ISP, I believe you are overestimating the allure of your proposed MiniSNP.

      We can respectfully disagree on that. Given how tough you found persuading people on here to vote Green ’16 I feel for all of us, that those who agree with the SNP platform as is, will obey the party instructions of SNP 1&2.

      This won’t help reduce the Unionist dross & neither of us will be happy as the current & proposed new List pro-Indy parties won’t get representation.

      I don’t see the ISP as being anti SNP, from what I’ve read they agree on ~90% of the platform it’s the GRA they definitely disagree on & there’s the perception of how serious each take Indy as a potential disagreement.

      IB’s boilerplate manifesto of “we will vote for the furtherance of Indy, anything else will be a free vote” The quote of “That’s for the first Indy Government to decide” covers all bases.

    181. Dan says:

      schrodingers cat says: at 8:16 pm

      i think it (ISP) will fail for the same reason all the other indy parties did. you wouldnt vote for a mini snp party, fine you dont have to, but i maintain that an outwardly anti snp asking for snp voters to lend them their list votes wont work

      IIRC the tipping point for positive Indy benefits in Gavin Barrie’s projections were 1 in 8 SNP voters giving their List vote to the alternative Indy Party.
      I find it hard to believe that 7 out of 8 SNP voters are happy and onboard with GRA and Hate Speech Bill, and that at least some would consider giving their List vote to the alternative Indy Party that had a policy counter position to the one they find unpalatable.
      I also wonder about the presumably large amount of folk that supported the SNP in December 19 GE to “Stop Brexit” and to put “Scotland’s Future in Scotland’s Hands” in the hope that “something” would be done rather than the damp squib on the 31st January.
      People tend not to like liars so it’s not inconceivable that at least some of those voters may be receptive to “sending a message” to those that chose to deceive them.

    182. K1 says:

      Yeah cat, great launch, cheers 🙂

    183. Lorna Campbell says:

      Absolutely brilliant cartoon. Nailed it.

    184. schrodingers cat says:

      People tend not to like liars so it’s not inconceivable that at least some of those voters may be receptive to “sending a message” to those that chose to deceive them.

      deary me dan, you wont attract snp voters to lend you their vote by calling the snp liars.

      but you have the party of your wishes, sip. but their will be others for sure and we will see who calls it right

    185. Beaker says:

      Three people hurt jumping into the sea off rocks at Durdle Door in Dorset. I know the place well.

      Looking at the pictures on the BBC News website it’s now obvious that no one gives a shit about social distancing or staying alert or not travelling unnecessarily. I don’t know how the rest of Scotland was, but in Rutherglen lots of people including me out walking, but everyone still keeping apart (well, you don’t want your wallet lifted!).

      The second wave of COVID-19 isn’t going to wait until winter, it’s going to come back and bite people hard on the arse within a month.

    186. Col.Blimp IV says:

      On the subject of this “vote lending” malarky.

      Shortly after Alex Salmond became convener of the SNP he asked the delegates to lend him their votes for his gradualist strategy to take the SNP to a position where they were genuine contenders at General Elections.

      e.g. Those who had voted against him on ideological grounds, were hostile to the EU, cared only about independence, or simply did not like him.

      Doc McIntyre cautioned the hall, saying that while a baby-steps, pro devolution, Independence within the European Union approach may well help make the headway we all desired.

      We must be wary of loosing sight of the ultimate Goal – A fully independent nation called Scotland – and that it was vital that the membership did not permit the leadership settle for any thing less.

      We have made the leap to electoral credibility.

      The Unionists already trumpet, that every vote for the SNP is a vote for the demise of the United Kingdom.

      It is time that the SNP stopped denying it.

      It is time that the membership insists that THEIR party does what it says on the tin.

    187. Dan says:

      @schrodingers cat

      You often respond very quickly to an element of a poster’s comment which doesn’t appear to allow you time to actually consider the overall nuance of what folk were attempting to convey.
      What do you call somebody that told you Scotland wouldn’t be pulled out of the EU against its will when you wake up and find you are no longer an EU citizen with all the massive implications that has on the rest of your and your fellow citizens’ lives?

      Some folk on here may be older and happily settled, but others younger ones are still trying to build their lives and find partners to have a future in this country. A country which is being systematically destroyed by the young moving away because they can’t afford to live here, or there are no viable jobs, and the housing is getting hoovered up by retired incomers. It is the modern day clearances.
      Colin Alexander mentioned the elephant in the room about Scottish birth rates the other day and I don’t recall anyone picking up on it. In many ways, folk need to get a wriggle on!

      You also presume you know the thought processes and positions of all the many SNP voters that I am friends and acquaintances with through years of activism.

      It’s been a refreshing change the last few days with you coming back and instigating with others talk of a theoretical new Party standing on the Regional Lists. The thing is, events and the behaviour / actions of existing Parties had already created the void for a new Party to get up and running to fill that space.
      You have eluded you are sympathetic to the counter GRA and Hate Speech Bill policies the ISP looks to be taking up. That being the case is there no way you can compromise your unique ultimate aims and reach a consensus that the ISP is the List Vote vehicle we she get behind to achieve the reduction in Unionist List Seat Allocations that you desire.
      You just keep saying it will fail like the others which is awfy reminiscent of the left always tearing itself apart.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope and would expect the Scottish government to look out for our best interest, but the Scottish civil service has been instructed to ignore a legal respect for biology. That’s not only a problem it is counter to a legal respect for human rights.

      4E Objectivity
      Reconceptualising legal objectivity according to the concept of embodied, embedded, enacted and extended cognition

      ….While processs-oriented conceptions of objectivity require “the knower” to reflect on their point of view by addressing varied perspectives and arguments, they do not require the knower to reflect on her or his subjectivity as an embodied state of being.

      As different as the three mentioned conceptions of legal objectivity are, they all focus on knowing, perceiving, analysing and judging as a mental and rational process and do not methodologically reflect on knowing, perceiving, analysing and judging as an embodied and embedded process.

      Although the formalist and process-oriented approaches to objectivity do not explicitly build on the Cartesian model of cognition, they recreate the dogma that the mind is superior and more valuable to the body and thereby recreate the notion of body and mind as binary oppositions.9

      This model of cognition however has been increasingly rejected by cognitive science during the last centuries and has already led to an increased discussion within the legal discourse about law and epistemology.10 It turns out that suppressing, masking or overcoming one’s embodied subjectivity, and thereby the fundamental embodiedness of (legal) knowledge, seems to be neither possible nor desirable.

      On the contrary, the attempt to ignore desires, emotions, needs and experiences (states of being usually associated with subjectivity within a Cartesian mindset) makes it more likely for “the knower” to be unaware of them, so that bias 4 could not even be reflected upon, which makes way for mechanisms of projection, idealisation, devaluation and all sorts of unaware evaluative impulses….

    189. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Dan, you could always take a leaf out of the SWP’s book.

      And stand outside the Polling Station with a placard :

      VOTE SNP 1
      but for

    190. robbo says:

      Trump on now. Time to switch off cos it’ll be all me,me,me.


      schrodingers cat says:
      30 May, 2020 at 7:08 pm

      new rocket launches in under an hour

      can be seen over scotland east to west in the south 10 mins after launch

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A clever cartoon, Chris!

      RE: List Party.

      For next year’s election, we need *ONE* pro-indy party so as not to dilute the list vote.

      If it is anti-Self ID and anti-Hate Bill I can handle that.

      The IfSP is first out of the traps, being recognised by the Electoral Commission. Do we, as Yessers, get behind IfSP, or wait for another alternative?

      That is the question.

      Will enough high profile faces get behind IfSP, or will another pro-indy list party attract, or be formed by, high profile names?

      It’s only a year till HE 2021. What if a *NEW* list party has as its primary manifesto that if they have a majority, then that is a mandate to declare independence? What if the SNP are forced, by polling, to adopt the same strategy?

      Things, and times, are becoming “interesting”…

    192. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Brian Doonthetoon

      “What if the SNP are forced, by polling, to adopt the same strategy?”

      If they do not … what could their reasoning be?

    193. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Col.Blimp IV.

      Your guess is as good as mine…

    194. schrodingers cat says:


      i am no different from this guy you talk about

      i lost my job cos of brexit, im a 3 way instantanious translator for the oil industry, you know ian brotherhood, ask him.

      however i am a realist, i dont make pleas for un, eu or international law to step in and save us, (i know, i served with the un, the number of countries abandoned by them are too numerous to count.

      you are impatient, as i and many others are, i get it, but the british establishment are no pushovers

      what we do must have support of the majority of the population. until now we havent had it.

      45% in the ge in dec means it isnt a cause that we can die on a hill for. if we move too soon, wm will shut down holyrood. the eu wont lift a finger, the catalan leaders are still in jail remember.

      so no, the sg waits, we can do nothing at the mo cos of the virus’s which no matter how exasperation people might be, it isnt nicolas fault. so come jan 1st we screw the head and we go for it

    195. Bob Mack says:

      The late Herbert Hoover maintained that any political party must be more than something that Is just “against”. It must have affirmative purpose to be credible.

      That more than anything is how it will experienced by the public.

      A party with the affirmative purpose of Indy in their manifesto could perhaps be an attractive option, especially if the SNP play it low key ‘re Indy2.

      I fail to see why that would be less attractive to voters rather than a party who would be seen as devoid of their own agenda.

    196. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I’m not expecting the law to rescue Scotland, but Scotland is unlikely to help itself by ignoring the law. The constitution has been trashed and Scotland’s civic society has been/will be damaged as a consequence. The Scottish government has a legal responsibility to protect Scotland from Brexit, but they appear to place more value in their oath to the Crown.

      Constitutions and
      International Law

    197. schrodingers cat says:

      You just keep saying it will fail like the others which is awfy reminiscent of the left always tearing itself apart.

      funny that i was thinking the exact same thing about all the snp haters on this site

    198. schrodingers cat says:

      cam, you think nicola should call indyref2 before xmas ?

    199. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t hate the SNP, I just think their legal advises are ripping the piss. They also appear to be profoundly ignorant of human rights law. Not a good combination, IMHO.

      Emotional Common Sense as Constitutional Law

    200. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      What gives you that impression?

    201. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack

      A party with the affirmative purpose of Indy in their manifesto could perhaps be an attractive option, especially if the SNP play it low key ‘re Indy2.

      you already have one, it is called sip,

      I fail to see why that would be less attractive to voters

      neither did rise

    202. cirsium says:

      @beaker, 8.53
      The second wave of COVID-19 isn’t going to wait until winter, it’s going to come back and bite people hard on the arse within a month.

      But is it really Beaker? Prof Hill who started work on a vaccine said that it would be unlikely to be ready for testing by September because the virus is disappearing now. I think the current figures for the whole of Scotland are 12 COVID patients in ICU and 846 in hospital. This is promising. The consequences of the “lockdown” itself will now have to be faced Covid -19: “staggering number” of extra deaths in the community is not explained by Covid-19

    203. schrodingers cat says:


      cos i cant/couldnt see what else could do differently

      the folk here who bitch about nicola and the snp are wrong.

      It is the people of scotland who are to blame for the situation we are now in

    204. Dan says:

      Went back to re-read a previous post of S.cats coz I like to absorb what folk say.

      schrodingers cat says: at 7:45 pm

      as for assuming all constituency snp voters are from avid snp voters, i dont, i am pointing out, that unless we can put forward a united, non controversial list option, these snp voters will simply ignore this new ILP as they have done before with other indy parties

      Hmm, I don’t think what you’re suggesting is feasible because a list Party that backs biological science in that women don’t have baws and a penis, or men don’t have tits, wombs, and baby chutes, is particularly controversial.
      So not sure how they can smoothly align in a united non controversial front with supporters of Parties that run with the woowoo scienz which is controversial.
      And I guess I’ll just have to wind my neck in and not be controversial and accept my freedom of speech being suppressed while I’m at it.
      At least with lockdown in place I’ll be relatively easy to trace by the NeoStasi to take me away for re-education or minced into dug food.

      As per your response at 10.33pm. Don’t mistake what you perceive as my impatience to be gun ho. I am merely eager to get properly organised so we have sufficient time to engineer a coherent strategy to run with, and aren’t left through endless time wasting purity hunting cobbling together an actual destined to fail gun ho last minute compromised un-executable shitfest of a plan.

      The majority of the electorate haven’t a fuckin clue about the different voting systems, so KISS.
      Also remember that the Conservatives have eluded to weaponising the Self ID concept at some point in the future when they feel the need to do so for the very reason that it is such an emotive subject. By having a List Party with a counter position to it that serves as a defence mechanism of sorts to pick up the votes of folk that may succumb to an MSM propaganda onslaught. Covering oor bases and all that…

    205. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve not had the time to look into this properly, but this appears to be the ethical framework guiding the Scottish government.

      COVID-19 Guidance: Ethical Advice and Support Framework

    206. schrodingers cat says:


      i really couldnt give a flying proverbial about the chicks with disk issue

      if thats what floats yer, fine go for it, vote for sip

      but i maintain the yes supporters will see it as an attempt to use the weight of the indy movement to shoe horn another issue and it will not draw enough support.

      sip is 1st out the blocks, but it wont be the last

    207. Bob Mack says:


      Nobody hates the SNP. We may be having issues with various aspects of the leadership and management but that is hardly hate. More frustration than anything.

      What difference as long as we vote for them ?

      They have gone from honey to Marmite in two years and people do notice these things. Obviously would be better if people were too stupid to notice these things happening, but given that we have often discussed the Scottish electorate as being amongst the most informed anywhere, that is unlikely.

      It’s not the voters of the SNP that are changing the rules, it’s the party itself pandering to minority interexts.

    208. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Brexit has trashed the constitution, but the SNP appears determined to submit to Westminster’ assumed authority. The last time I heard the FM speak about Brexit, it pretty much told me she has no respect for constitutional law. That is simply unacceptable.

      The Oxford Handbook of International Human Rights Law
      Part III Structural Principles, Ch.16 Sovereignty

    209. schrodingers cat says:

      you know, over the last few days, i have put forward a number of options, the best option is for a combination of these options

      just because a party says it wont vote against the snp, doesnt mean it cant raise an issue every week at fmq. the ILP, if it was backed by the majority of snp voters on the list could easily become the opposition.

      that means it would get to ask the 1st 5 questions each week at fmqs.

      this woke brigade you mentioned, no one is holding them to account?
      also, the snp are on 54% at the moment, for those that understand the EA it is very likely that the snp will win a majority on the constituency vote anyway

      so whether the new ILP msps vote or not changes nothing

      also, the idea of only sending 2 or 3 msps to holyrood and using their salarys as a source of funding for the yes party is not with out merit

      the unionists have had safe seats that no hopers get gifted to them and do nothing but shine the seats with their arse.

      the party could even be more radical, eg the snp want to keep the queen so as not to scare the horses etc, but a new party could freely say bollox to the queen, and nato 🙂

      such an enfant terrible might encourage unionists to vote snp to keep us out 🙂

    210. Ayeright says:

      schrodingers cat talks sense

    211. schrodingers cat says:

      Bob Mack says:

      Nobody hates the SNP.

      twathater does, look at his posts 2 threads ago

      but i accept, most of the worst comments are probably from trolls

    212. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      In the past 11 days, since the ‘In The Hands Of Others’ post, there has been a total of 2812 comments btl here.

      266 of them were from you.

      In response to a commenter who suggested that you get your own blog, just t’other night, you responded that you’re ‘happy to exploit the biggest Scottish politics blog’.

      Almost 10% of the comments appearing here in the past 11 days have been yours.

      Do you regard that as a responsible use of a public platform?

    213. Shug says:

      I don’t think section 30 is about submission. It is about coming to an agreement.

    214. schrodingers cat says:


      tx, i could do with some moral support

    215. schrodingers cat says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      i think cam is a closet trainspotter, or suffering from some mild form of aspergers

      all those post and no one taking him on would have dunted the moral of most by now 🙂

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      If I hadn’t been asked to provide links I’d have pissed off long ago. Do you feel education in the community to be a fruitless task?

    217. schrodingers cat says:

      i hope i have at least given you all some food for thought

      nb, now on my second glass of wine, coherence may reduce 🙂

    218. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Oh the burn.

      Jurisprudential Responses to Legal Realism

    219. schrodingers cat says:

      Do you feel education in the community to be a fruitless task?

      no, but i think your efforts are fruitless

      you are far more interesting when you stop posting screeds of other folks work, no matter how worthy, and engage directly with the other posters

    220. schrodingers cat says:

      camb the human spambot lol

    221. schrodingers cat says:

      ive written computer sub routines that that wore out long before you 🙂

    222. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Who asked you to ‘provide’ the links?

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      ” screeds of other folks work”

      Are you for real? Have you any idea how education works?

      Teaching and the Dialectic of Recognition

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I can’t remember right now, do you oppose me attempting to help expand minds?

    225. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat says: @ 10:52 pm

      “cam, you think nicola should call indyref2 before xmas ?”

      I know I am not Cam but as far as I am concerned, the less said about Indyrefs the better.

      You need an excuse for a referendum and yes, we do have one – The EU election result.


      We didn’t

      To hold a referendum before the election and loose would be a disaster, and set in peoples minds the notion that a referendum is somehow necessary.

      To hold a referendum after winning the election without WM approval, bearing in mind the $30 baggage, would be stupid and unnecessary.

      If the SNP simply reverts to being what it was always supposed to be.

      The party of Independence.

    226. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –

      It’s like trying to stop a Sherman tank with nothing more than an elastic band and a few kirby grips.


    227. schrodingers cat says:

      hud ma pint ian, im a real mciver when it comes to stoppin’ sherman tanks 🙂

    228. schrodingers cat says:


      we were on course to but treeza wrong footed us and called a ge. then the people of scotland effectively told us to eff off
      (38% snp vote) bastirts 🙂

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      “It’s like trying to stop a Sherman tank with nothing more than an elastic band and a few kirby grips.”

      Too fucking right. I value my human rights and the Scottish government does not appear to be doing a damn thing to protect them. So I’m doing all I can in the interests of my self-preservation. This is my primary moral responsibility, which happens to coincide with supporting Scottish sovereignty. Which is nice. 😉

      Am I in the wrong place?

      Getting Real About Legal Realism,
      New Legal Realism and Clinical Legal Education

    230. Dan says:

      schrodingers cat says: at 11:24 pm

      i really couldnt give a flying proverbial about the chicks with disk issue

      if thats what floats yer, fine go for it, vote for sip

      but i maintain the yes supporters will see it as an attempt to use the weight of the indy movement to shoe horn another issue and it will not draw enough support.

      sip is 1st out the blocks, but it wont be the last

      I suppose you don’t need to give a shit if you’re not going to be putting yourself in a position of a televised interview, where nearly every previous supporter of Self ID that has attempted to do so has been skewered on the subject.

      I’m very much a live and let live, liberal minded individual, but I do understand society has to have some kind of systemic order grounded in reality to function properly, so I am quite able to compromise my ideals to facilitate this to happen.
      I campaign on the relatively solid ground of truth and reality, and won’t start lying or bullshitting to try to defend fantasy indulgent or the creep of authoritarian control.

      You never answered why you won’t compromise on your ultimate ideals for a List Party to coalesce around and support or steer an option that is close to what you want and has already put some ground work in to establish itself administratively.

      Yay, loads more List Parties, that’s just what the whole List Vote concept needs to be fucked before it’s even begun.
      I’m not necessarily for SIP but this idea has been floated around for years and now that someone has quietly gone for it, the detractors and egos just can’t seem to accept that they have been too busy talkin’ the talk, while someone actually walked the walk.
      I don’t know if SIP will actually be THE Party, but time is of the essence so the longer folk piss about bickering about it, the more of everyone’s time is being wasted and the less time will be available to actually develop and campaign for a Party before the election.
      So KISS and fuck all this time wasting ego massaging pish, or enjoy watching Holyrood seats filled with folk we could have displaced. That is of course if we still even have it as a Parliament to administrate whatever powers Westminster decides it can have.
      Just coz we’re locked down doesn’t mean we can’t crack on progressing the task, in fact now is the ideal time to do so as many folk actually have time to interact.

    231. schrodingers cat says:

      Am I in the wrong place?

      no cam, but your tactics are wrong. you cant educate folk by trying to out do spam bots. all they do is ignore you, no education is taking place

    232. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      We all do what we feel we have to do.

      If you really feel you’re doing something useful, fair enough. You don’t require anyone’s permission, least of all mine.


    233. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thank you Ian, this is me following my training so yes, I feel it neccessary and procuctive.

      “trying to out do spam bots”

      You can get tae you narrow minded prick.

    234. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat

      If it wasn’t for the SNP joining in on the fruitless and anti-democratic attempt to save the English from what they voted for.

      There wouldn’t have been an election.

      I’m surprised that Labour haven’t been blaming them for putting Boris in … They got away with blaming them for Thatcher for more than twenty years.

    235. schrodingers cat says:

      wind yer neck in dan

      i campaigned for green 2 vote in 2016, i failed. it was not because of the EA, that was sound, i failed cos not enough people trusted them to lend them their vote. their imminent demise has created an imperative for a new list party

      get off their arses and created a new party?? whoopdedoo, filled in a few forms and paid £200 quid…. even the monster raving loonies can do that.

      i have come on here to kick start a genuine discussion about the nature of a new ILP, one which has the best chance to succeed. the isnt fuckin coronation street

      im trying to point out the options available to us. including compromises. but if you are not willing to compromise then go ahead with sip

      and best of luck to you

      i have been on this blog for years arguing for tactical voting o the list

    236. schrodingers cat says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:
      If it wasn’t for the SNP joining in on the fruitless and anti-democratic attempt to save the English…..

      the snp had no choice but to wind their necks in 2017, only 38% of scots backed them, had 50-60% backed them then things wouldve been different. but they didnt, thems the cards dealt

    237. schrodingers cat says:

      “trying to out do spam bots”

      You can get tae you narrow minded prick.

      ha ha ha ha ha ha

      thats the best and funniest post ive ever seen fae you cam. Its also the only one you didnt post a hyperlink to some academical paper 🙂

      point taken?

    238. schrodingers cat says:

      camB the human spambot

      ha ha ha ha ha

      warning 3rd glass of wine

      prob time fer me to go listen to some sounds

    239. Dan says:

      Haha, Meow, bit of an over-reaction to my post there.
      But aye yer the boss. I’ll just wheesht and bow down to your clear masterful wisdom and diplomacy skills in building cohesion amongst differing viewpoints and ideas.

      Crack on with the “discussion” and I’ll check back to see what all encompassing plans and strategy YOU come up with.

    240. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I’m a social nonentity who is unknown to all the readers. According to communication theory, this means I need to claim social capital from some culturally appropriate authority, if I hope for my communication to be acknowledged. That’s why I post the links.

      Social capital and communication

    241. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat says

      There was a whole year between the Brexit Referendum and May calling an election.

      Which would not have happened had The SNP opted to save Scotland from Brexit rather than Join the Doomed Remainer coalition against Teresa May.

      My opinion is that Corbyn’s poularity and the fact that pro-Brexit voters reaction to the anti-demcratic antics of the uber-smug Remainiacs is what cost the SNP seats.

      I don’t think support independence came into it, I doubt if it was even mentioned in SNP literature, though I don’t recall being sufficiently motivated to read any of it.

    242. schrodingers cat says:

      i did wish you the best of luck, hardly an over reaction

      bon nuit mon ami

    243. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of course, my approach hits a brick wall if folk aren’t interested enough to click the links.

      Social Media and Social Capital: Introduction to the
      Special Issue

    244. Col.Blimp IV says:


      Social capital and communication – a fifty page PDF

      Brilliant – LOL!

    245. CameronB Brodie says:

      Col.Blimp IV
      I’m not expecting folk to turn themselves into social scientist. However, I’m confident that even a little dip of the toe is likely to influence the readers perception of the world. This leads to new ideas and new forms of communication, which leads to social progress. That’s the theory anyway. 😉

    246. CameronB Brodie says:

      Action implies cognition and AGENCY, so here’s what happens when you combine ACTION theory with stuff. I don’t expect folk to get stuck into this stuff, but hopefully it will convince folk I might actually know a bit about what we are doing.

      Theory and Action for Emancipation: Elements of a Critical Realist Approach

    247. Tartanpigsy says:

      I guess we’ll be hearing more about this?

      The Lord Advocate

      Mr Walter James Wolffe QC

      Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Office

      25 Chambers Street,


      EH1 1LA

      31st May 2020

      Dear Mr Wolffe,

      We are writing to you to express our growing concern over the actions of both the Crown Office and Police Scotland.

      In recent weeks vocal independence supporters and backers of the former First Minister Alex Salmond, specifically the former UK diplomat, human rights campaigner and journalist Craig Murray along with fellow journalist Mark Hirst, have been arrested and charged in relation to comments they made publicly during and following the trial of Mr Salmond. Other supporters of Mr Salmond have also been contacted by police and warned over online comments they made in the wake of the trial.

      We are particularly concerned to note that the investigating police officers are the same detectives who led the investigation against Mr Salmond over a period of two years and at considerable cost to the public purse.

      As you know, the prosecution following from that investigation, pursued again at considerable cost to the public purse, resulted in the acquittal of Mr Salmond on all charges and now raises the most serious questions about why that investigation and that prosecution were pursued.

      Whilst we appreciate that you cannot be involved in individual cases you will undoubtedly be aware that complaints of alleged Contempt of Court were made against six other individual journalists widely regarded as being hostile in their reporting of Mr Salmond. No action by the Crown Office or Police Scotland has been taken against any of those individuals. This leaves the distinct impression that Police Scotland, at the direction of the Crown Office, are acting in a manner that is both biased and disproportionate.

      As you will be aware, for public confidence to be maintained in our independent legal system the law must be able to both demonstrate it is acting impartially and be seen to be doing so.

      The actions taken so far risk establishing a public perception that both Police Scotland and the Crown Office are conducting themselves in a manner which is biased and is indeed political in nature.

      Such perceptions risk seriously damaging confidence in the Scottish legal system.

      We would welcome your fullest public response to the concerns raised in this letter and any meaningful public assurances you can offer that both Police Scotland and the Crown Office are complying with their obligations to act with complete impartiality and to apply the law fairly.

      Professor Noam Chomsky (linguist and political scientist)

      Yanis Varoufakis (Author, former Greek MP and Finance Minister, philosopher, economist)

      Professor Robert Black QC (Professor Emeritus of Scots Law, Edinburgh University)

      Sir David Hare (Playwright, screen writer and film director)

      Kristinn Hrnaffson (Investigative journalist and Editor in Chief of Wikileaks)

      Tariq Ali (human rights campaigner, journalist and historian)

      Roger Waters (co-founder Pink Floyd, political activist)

      Lawrence B. Wilkerson, (US Colonel, Ret, former Chief of Staff, US Department of State)

      Paul Kavanagh (Columnist, The National newspaper)

      George Kerevan (Journalist, Former SNP MP, former Associate Editor of The Scotsman)

      Tommy Sheridan (Convenor, Solidarity and former MSP)

      Ann Wright (Former US Ambassador, US Colonel, Ret, and former US diplomat who resigned in 2003 in opposition to President Bush’s war in Iraq)

      Christine Assange (human rights campaigner and mother of Julian)

      Gordon Dangerfield (Solicitor Advocate)

      Hugh Kerr (Former Labour MEP, author and journalist)

      John Kiriakou (CIA whistle-blower)

      Coleen Rowley (Retired FBI Agent and former Minneapolis Division Legal Counsel, 2002 Time Magazine Person of the Year)

      Ray McGovern (Former CIA Officer, Founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity)

      Robert Tibbo (lawyer to Edward Snowden)

      Annie Machon (former MI5 officer, author and journalist)

      Katherine Gun (former GCHQ whistle-blower)

      Clive Ponting (former Government whistle-blower)

      Stuart Campbell (Editor, Wings over Scotland)

      James Kelly (Editor of SCOT goes POP! and columnist with The National)

      Neil MacKay (Singer-songwriter, Scottish independence activist)

      Liz Dangerfield (solicitor)

      Campbell Martin (Broadcast journalist and former SNP MSP)

      Elizabeth Murray (former Deputy National Intelligence Officer for the Near East & CIA political analyst)

      Robin McAlpine (Political strategist)

      Bogdan Dzakovic (9/11 aviation security whistle-blower, FAA Security, Ret.)

      Robert Wing (former US Foreign Service Officer)

      Marshall Carter-Tripp (Political science professor and Foreign Service Officer (retired) and Division Director, State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research)

    248. twathater says:

      Nice one SC @ 11.50pm unfortunately you are wrong the SNP was supposed to be the party of independence what I hate is they have turned into a mealy mouthed imposter capitulating to WM

      So just to get it straight the Fuhrer decreed the other day that ANY new list party must PROMISE not to vote against the SNP or their policies , but when Dan and Ruglonian opined that they didn’t think that would work they were then informed as others were “don’t like it then fuck off and form your own party ” hearts and minds won

      Then today it was when the new list party is elected they don’t need to turn up they could go home and wash windows or paint walls , but they could agree to donate the MSP salary to the YES movement , but surely if the list party went home that would only leave a handful of yoonionist MSP’s to oppose any regressive legislation such as the GRA bill or the HATE crime bill , they may even pass a Pedophile Information Exchange BILL as that appears to be the way they are heading , but don’t worry it is certain , maybe , possibly Nicola will DEFINATELY make the SP election a plebiscite for indy

      I think I will just vote for the IFSP as the mini SNP fuhrer doesn’t appeal to me

    249. TJenny says:

      Tartanpigsy – ooh, canny wait to see the reply to that burn. 🙂

    250. susan says:

      I have to agree with you twathater (2.53am).

    251. Sharny Dubs says:

      twathater @2:53
      I disagree with the idea of the SNP being an arm of WM, it’s more like they have become prey to the Woke SJW culture preferring to ignore the fact that it does not represent the people who voted them in to power.
      Westmonmster is laughing their socks off knowing it is a complete fallacy and will easily be defeated at will, but are happy to allow them to continue tilting at windmills.
      The SNP have become a laughing stock globally and are an embarrassment to Scotland.

    252. Dorothy Devine says:

      Tartanpigsy, absolutely fantastic! Get out of that eh?

    253. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      30 May, 2020 at 7:03 pm
      Its absolutely shocking


      Aye it is. Don’t worry the gee gee’s are back 2mor eh!

      We’ll do up here what we need to.If you don’t like it-do wan.If you’re down south,stay there.

      Just go to the beach,get some factor 0 crisp & dry slabbered over yourself and sit with your buds.Go to A&E tomorrow when your skin is on fire and you’ve no after-sun or calamine lotion.
      Am sure the docs & nurses will be happy to accommodate you with the covid ward patients while you recover!

      Have a nice day.

      Oh forgot- CLOWN

    254. The Isolator says:

      Great cartoon Chris ,as always bang on the money.

      @Tartanpigsty absolute souster of a letter.Pleasing.

    255. gus1940 says:

      As a military history buff I am an enthusiastic viewer of the many military documentaries on the various history channels.

      Recently we have been treated to a series of such programs consisting of reminiscences of ww2 veterans.

      In all these programs it has been difficult to witness a single contributor from Scotland.

      A casual viewer would get the impression that scottish soldiers were conspicuous by their absence from the UK’s armed forces in ww2.

      Just more evidence of the relentless campaign by our WM masters to ignore Scotland and her people and any contribution which they made.

    256. Famous15 says:

      I recognise phrases used here by certain contrubutors which I also read in the most rabid UnionIst blogs. This is not coincidence. They are the same people as my exam plagiarism software confirms.

      Now do not go away thinking I am the laughing stock of the world or some pocket fuhrer,geddit,or your head might explode. Teebloodyhee.

      Independence has a dignity,like democracy,which many besmirch to sustain their dictatorship.

    257. Sinky says:

      Labour’s mouthpiece John Boothman repeating nonsense in Sunday Times about Scotland’s Covid death rates.

      Do journalists no check all the facts before rushing to print SNPbad news.

      Why is this stuff not covered by the Scottish press?

      England’s care home deaths estimated above 22,000 according to LSE research.

      Why do Scots Gov / UK Gov not make reference to this EU wide monitor of excess deaths over the seasonal norm?Also check out excess death rates at Scroll to bottom for Scotland v England comparison

      England excess deaths Z figure peaked at 42.34 whereas Scotland peaked at 15.60

    258. Sensibledave says:


      “Of course, my approach hits a brick wall if folk aren’t interested enough to click the links.“

      …. you have made the first step. We all agree!!!

      Now you just need that second step … and accept … we don’t click the links!

      … there you go Cammy.

    259. Mike d says:

      SC 12.22am. I personally believe it was the ‘incomers’ not the people of Scotland who told us to eff off in 2017. And in 5 yrs time with another 200.000 expected, along with the pet house jock votes,coupled with Scots migration. Scottish independence will be shelved forever.

    260. Rm says:

      There’s plenty people with organising skills who could get all the Independence hubs to work together and head towards ILP probably over a million people that could be the start of Scotland’s second Independence Party and definitely with people who really want the union to end, and the next independence vote anybody not resident in Scotland for at least 15 year shouldn’t be allowed to vote on independence, westminster will spend billions sending people to stay here to vote their that sleekit, only Scots born or people who’ve been here for at least 15 years or Scotland will never be totally free.

    261. Sensibledave says:

      Rm 9.14

      Why stop there? If your strategy it to attempt to gerrymander the outcome, why not have a voting slip where people can only vote yes… or their vote doesn’t count?

    262. Dan says:

      @Sensibledave at 9:24 am

      To be fair Dave, Rm was probably only following Westminster’s “democracy stylée”, as they have a pretty good track record of denying folk the vote.
      Just ask the 16 & 17 year olds and EU Nationals.
      No Taxation Without Representation and all that. HTH

    263. terence callachan says:

      If you accept the government are lying to you if you accept that Cambridge analytica used illegal methods on behalf of government you will accept that the governments statistics telling you how many English people live in Scotland are also a lie.

      Then add to the true figure , all those non eu people who have been given British citizenship and British passports having lived in U.K. for five years , these people love their British passport and citizenship because of the organised health education housing financial systems they now benefit from

      They should be considered English rather than British
      This is another circumstance where british means English because they believe this whole island to be English and to them british is English as nearly everyone in the world does

    264. Jomry says:

      Perceptive (as usual) take on Emily Maitless incident and BBC from Jonathan Cook.

    265. terence callachan says:

      The only people who should get a vote on Scottish independence
      Are people who live in Scotland and were

      Born in Scotland

      Not born in Scotland but one of their parents was born in Scotland

      Not born in Scotland neither parent was born in Scotland and they live in Scotland and have lived in Scotland for at least five consecutive years

      Not born in Scotland neither parent born in Scotland they live in Scotland and have lived in Scotland for 2 years or more and take up Scottish citizenship giving them eligibility to a Scottish passport
      The Scottish government should immediately set up an office to offer administer and process applications for Scottish citizenship

    266. Sensibledave says:

      … so far this morning, Terrance and Rm have declared on behalf of the Scottish Arian Society. Anybody else?

    267. Capella says:

      Beaker says:

      How many Tory mps does it take to change a lightbulb?

      None of them. They prefer to work in the dark.

    268. Sensibledave says:


      I have read, in other contexts on threads here, that this or that 16 year old is just a baby and not responsible or grown up enough (Isis brides, Greta, etc). Are they adults or not?

      Given that kids are supposed to be at school or college until eighteen, can’t drive a car until their seventeen, can’t drink, and can’t do lots of things that 18 year olds can do. Why do they come to their senses when it comes to an informed vote.

      You need to be careful what you wish for too. Based on much of what we see now, kids coming out of school and now university have a somewhat “skewed” view on many of life’s issues, trans issues being one such subject.

    269. schrodingers cat says:

      twathater says:

      So just to get it straight the Fuhrer decreed……….

      ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

      jeezo twat, everyone a gem….

    270. Capella says:

      @ tartanpigsy 2.23 – wow! Brilliant letter. Thanks for posting. Will be interesting to read the response. Will it be the same as the one they sent Stu, I wonder?

    271. frogesque says:

      @ Sensibledave: 10.25

      I believe Dominic Cummings is allowed to vote.

      Age does not always come into making sensible decisions.

      The Law is the Law and in Scotland 16 year olds can get married and vote. Not all do but they have a right to make decisions regarding their future should they want to.

    272. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Famous15 says:
      “31 May, 2020 at 8:53 am
      I recognise phrases used here by certain contrubutors which I also read in the most rabid UnionIst blogs. This is not coincidence. They are the same people as my exam plagiarism software confirms.”

      Unless you think the Crown Office will pounce on you for alleged defamation of Internet Monikers – You really should be naming names and providing links to these blogs.

      For our edification and amusement.

    273. Rm says:

      The english establishment keep it going with their private schools and colleges, people educated there are the next conservative and labour MPs all unionist, that’s the problem in Scotland some Scottish msps are educated like that as well they’ll be for the establishment deep down, they all think that Scotland is part of the establishment but it’s not we’re a free independent country who were conned into a union three hundred years ago when real men and women weren’t allowed to vote, this is the 21st century and things are a changing, real men and women in Scotland have the vote now and lots of us don’t consider Scotland to be part of the english establishment, it would be a good idea to have Scottish citizenship then you’d be entitled to vote for Scotland’s future.

    274. Sensibledave says:


      As a democrat, I am “for” the law and whatever the people vote for, they should get. Personally though, having been a 16 year old and now looking back (a long time) I am grateful that the future of the country was not reliant upon my thoughts and somewhat skewed “drivers” at that time. Footy, friends, drinking, going out, were the extent of my universe! I was only interested in political debate to the extent that I might personally benefit. I knew nothing of business, taxes, healthcare systems or foreign policy and cared even less.

    275. Col.Blimp IV says:

      The Powers that be, up in Jackson’s Entry, must be miffed that they have fallen out with Craig Murray.

      Their plans to form a “Disgruntled Spooks for Independence”, Affiliated Organisation, appear to have hit the skids.

    276. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Jomry 10.02: thanks for that excellent article on Emily Maitlis and Establishment-compliant “journalists”. Of course, the treatment she handed out to Barry Gardiner is familiar to any independence supporter when an Indy politician is interviewed by the MSM.

      The BBC’s claims of impartiality and balance are so ludicrous it borders on delusion. Its apogee is reached most Wednesday afternoons on Pravdasound 4 in “The Media Show”, a relentless puff for our fearless state propagandists and tame journos prattling on about their relentless fact-checking and incredibly high professional standards, all of which disappear up the lum where Scotland is concerned.

      Pass the absinthe.

    277. Bob W says:


      I think you may have misinterpreted TC’s post, it appeared to be a list of all those who should be allowed to vote in an independence referendum. Only excluding those with less than 2 Years residence. Hardly an Arian viewpoint.

    278. Mike d says:

      Sensibledave 9.24am. Westminster gerrymandered the 2016 Brexit vote by denying EU nationals the right to participate.

    279. MaggieC says:

      Re Tartanpigsy’s post @ 2.23 am , Here’s the archive link to it if anyone wants to save it .

      It’ll be very interesting to see if and when any reply is given to the letter .

    280. Mike d says:

      Terence Callachan 10.05am,in full agreement with you there. Anyone residing in Scotland for 5 yrs or more who did’nt have Scotlands interests at heart,wouldn’t give up their own citizenship to obtain Scottish citizenship, so therefore shouldn’t be allowed to vote in a referendum concerning the future of Scotland. This is a fair and valid point.

    281. Ron Maclean says:

      The letter posted by Tartanpigsy at 2:23am is included in a piece by Kathleen Nutt in todays ‘The National’ – “Global figures including Pink Floyd star sign letter backing Craig Murray”.

    282. MaggieC says:

      Sorry I should have said archive link to the letter in The National .

    283. schrodingers cat says:

      @ tartanpigsy 2.23

      wow, squeeky bum time for the unionist uncle tams

    284. Liz g says:

      Shrodingers Cat @ 11.29
      Indeed….. Noam Chomsky, a shit tonne of notable people and our own 3 most prominent Journalists. On many levels more than it’s purpose,this letter is huge

    285. Colin Alexander says:

      Declaration of Arbroath 1320:

      “…Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours…”

      Claim of Right Act 1689:

      Introductory text: “…And Did By the advyce of wicked and evill Counsellers Invade the fundamentall Constitution of this Kingdome And altered it from a legall limited monarchy to ane Arbitrary Despotick power and in a publick proclamation asserted ane absolute power…”.

      ‘The principle of all sovereignty resides essentially in the nation. No body nor individual may exercise any authority which does not proceed directly from the nation.’

      (Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen, 26 August 1789, the National Assembly of France)
      Nicola Sturgeon, April 2016: ““If we are taken out of the EU against our will I will want to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to protect our EU membership by looking again at the question of independence. I will obviously judge the circumstances of that at the time, should that situation arise.”.

      SNP Manifesto Scottish Parliament election 2016: “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will”.
      June 2016 – Scotland votes Remain in the EU by 62% to 38%

      29 January 2020:

      MSPS voted in favour of a Scottish Government motion stating that “a referendum should be held so that the people of Scotland can decide if they wish to become an independent country”.
      Nicola Sturgeon, May 2016:

      “The Scottish National Party pledges loyalty to the people of Scotland, in line with the Scottish constitutional tradition of the “sovereignty of the people of Scotland.”
      March 2017 the UK invokes Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and gave formal notice to the European Council of its intention to withdraw from the EU.
      December 2019

      Nicola Sturgeon writes to Boris Johnson requesting a S30 Order, she encloses the document: ““Scotland’s Right to Choose”.
      31 January 2020- Brexit Day- The day Scotland, as part of the UK member state, ceases to be a member of the EU. On this same day Nicola Sturgeon gives a speech which in which she states:

      “The issue of whether the specific constitutional reservation in the Scotland Act puts any form of independence referendum outside the powers of the Scottish Parliament – or instead leaves open scope for a non-binding consultative vote – has never been tested in court.

      That means it cannot be said definitively that it would not be legal, but equally it cannot be described as If a court ruled that it was legal, it wouldn’t be a “wildcat referendum” as our opponents like to brand it – it would be within the power of the Scottish Parliament.

      Should the UK Government continue to deny Scotland’s right to choose, we may reach the point where this issue does have to be tested.

      I am not ruling that out.

      But I also have to be frank. The outcome would be uncertain. There would be no guarantees.

      It could move us forward – but equally it could set us back. So my judgment at this stage is that we should use our energies differently”.
      Neither the SNP nor Scottish Government makes any attempt to obtain a legal ruling on the legality of the Scottish Parliament holding an independence referendum without a Section 30 Order, despite the legal uncertainty having been highlighted prior to the 2014 independence referendum.
      December 2019
      Forward As One, a pro-independence group start a fundraiser for potential legal action if three criteria are met:
      1. A majority of Scottish MP’s returned in the general election being Yes supporters.

      2. The First Minister requesting a section 30 order.

      3. That section 30 order request being rejected or ignored.

      The most recent update May 2020: “Open Record Accepted, Dates set for adjustment period”.

    286. Liz g says:

      To all the little Pissants trying to get a ” purity poll ” referendum conversation going for the bazillion’th time..
      You sound like Trump appealing to his base and like Trump your too stupid to realise you’re base ain’t here.
      Your just playing on the Revs good nature to have your shitty conversation cause no one else will platform ye on the Indy blogs.
      The exact opposite of the mantra of exclusion you endorse,by the way.

      And to those who are just tryin to make us all look bad by getting into this conversation ( you know who you are and so do we) you’re even dumber…. You’re showcasing the Wings open conversation ethos….

    287. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Noam Chomsky, a shit tonne of notable people and our own 3 most prominent Journalists. On many levels more than it’s purpose,this letter”

      I agree with you @ Liz g says at 11:40 am

      I also suspect it is ALL of us who will have to spread this article far and wide.

      The British Nationalist Establishments TV and Print Propagandists will ensure this is buried because they all have a lot to lose when the whole corrupt house of cards falls in on itself.

    288. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 11.50
      That’s a really good read Ian, thanks for posting it.
      One of those ” to see ourselves as ithers see us” pieces!

    289. Sarah says:

      @tartanpigsy et al: the front page headline is appalling – it gives the completely wrong impression. “Global figures back Murray over Salmond”.

      I immediately thought Murray was attacking Salmond!!

      What were the Sunday National people thinking?

    290. Col.Blimp IV says:

      What is the LA’s options?

      1) Stick his fingers in his ears and go LA! LA! LA! till it all goes away.

      2) Get the charges against Craig and Mark quietly dropped and hope that they don’t start proceedings for malicious prosecution.

      3) Instigate a dawn swoop on the homes and offices of the Yoon Jigsaw Journos.

      Any other options? – I hope he runs with number 3.

    291. MaggieC says:

      IanB @ 11.50 am , Thanks for that link to the Irish Times . It’s an excellent article and an interesting article to read .

    292. Bob W says:

      @Liz g
      I hope you are not including me in your “piss ant” post, I certainly do not advocate any sort of “purity poll” but do believe that as in any election, criteria should be set for those eligible to vote. Length of residence being one of them. Hardly part of a controversial or “shitty conversation.”

    293. Colin Alexander says:

      The timeline for the Scot Govt complaint process and criminal legal action against Alex Salmond makes interesting reading if compared with the timeline I submitted above:

      “Handling of harassment complaints involving current or former ministers

      Internal procedure agreed in December 2017 and published at that time on the Scottish Government intranet”.

      January 2018: The Scottish Government receives two complaints of harassment involving Alex Salmond, dating back to 2013, and launches an inquiry.

      March 2018: The former first minister is informed about the investigation against him.

      August 23 2018: The Daily Record publishes news of allegations made to the Scottish Government against Mr Salmond via a tweet.
      January 2019 The Scottish government has admitted acting unlawfully while investigating sexual harassment claims against Alex Salmond.

      Allegations against the former first minister, which he denies, were made to the Scottish government a year ago.

      The government has now admitted it breached its own guidelines by appointing an investigating officer who had “prior involvement” in the case.
      January 2019 Alex Salmond charged with various sexual offences.

      March 2020

      Alex Salmond cleared of the alleged offences at the High Court.

      May 2020

      Craig Murray and Mark Hirst, two prominent pro-independence journalists charged with offences connected with the Alex Salmond trial.

    294. liz says:

      The letter supporting Craig Murray in the National, is phenomenal.
      Well done Rev for adding your name

    295. schrodingers cat says:

      Liz g says:
      this letter is huge

      yes, it is

      a game changer even.

      it has been said many times that the unionist house of cards is beginning to crumble, but i genuinely believe that it is actually happening

    296. MaggieC says:

      This a link to Fidelma Cook’s excellent column in yesterday’s Herald “ There’s a warm welcome awaiting Scotland in Europe , once you break free of the UK’s comic opera “ .

      Well worth a read. .

    297. CameronB Brodie says:

      I already know you don’t click the links, as your opinion tends to be ill-informed and culturally biased. 😉

      Power, Emancipation, and Complexity:
      employing critical theory

    298. Bob Mack says:

      Just read the letter in the National. Wow. Let’s see them ignore it now.

      Well done Rev. You sign it on behalf of many.Thank you.

    299. Col.Blimp IV says:


      I preferred this bit:

      “And unionists, don’t bother to spew your hatred below the line on the website. Your time is over…”

    300. Liz g says:

      Bob W @ 12.18
      I live in hope too Bob.
      What did you think of the letter

    301. Clapper57 says:

      @ MaggieC & Liz G

      Hi girls, hope you are both well.

      I said to my husband today….”you know this 24/7 time I have HAD to spend with you and you alone…well…not saying it’s been bad….BUT…I did at one point envision your head on a spike”……LOL….seemed appropriate and not at all extreme…. at ‘critical’ moments…. aka arguments……Lol

      ps. Liz G you can STILL call me Flapper…Lol

      Have a lovely day both of you

    302. I usually agree with Mr., Callachan but not this time only the people who were born and live in Scotland should be allowed to decide the future of THEIR COUNTRY no one else you know what happened the last time 80per cent of in comers voted no and swung the vote against the true Scotsdo not allow this to happen again also no postal votes these are ways the unionists can cheat and win it is plain common sense fool me once etc., or when will they ever learn???

    303. Bob W says:

      Liz g

      You live in hope of what, that I’m not one of your “piss ant” posters?

      As to the letter, the only addition to what Rev Stu has said/ done, is the addition of the signatures of a range of well known and respected individuals from diverse areas of interest. I assume from past results it will make little or no difference to the actions of COPFS or the Lord Advicate.

    304. Ottomanboi says:

      Usage point.
      Some refs to Arian on here. Think Aryan and antiquated associations of race purity are signified.
      Arian, associated with the 3/4 century theologian Arius of Alexandria, is quite a different, though equally as noisome, creature.

    305. Bob W says:


    306. Bob W says:


      It’s been so long since I’ve been compared to a n a z i that I was lazy and just copied the spelling.

    307. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 12.56pm

      Ooops missed @ Sarah in my above post….hope you are well too.

      Have a lovely day Sarah…

    308. Beaker says:

      Oh ffs. It’s getting better…

      There are protesters in Trafalgar Square showing support for the protests on the USA. No harm in voicing your concerns but another example of social distancing being totally fucked.

    309. Liz g says:

      Clapper 57 @ 12.56
      Hey Flapper hope this finds ye well !
      And I’m glad your other half survived 🙂 cause I know you love him dearly yer foolin no one…lol
      Stay safe… 🙂

    310. Beaker says:

      @Ottomanboi says:
      31 May, 2020 at 1:11 pm
      “Usage point.
      Some refs to Arian on here.”

      Arian is also a female character in one of David Gemmell’s books.

      I need to get out some more…:)

    311. Liz g says:

      Bob A @ 1.11
      Of course…among other thing’s..

    312. Dan says:

      Forgot to mention a day or so ago… Did anybody else notice on two consecutive days the American DC10 with two jet escort flying over Scotland.

      I understand this flight tracker link includes military planes.

    313. Bob W says:

      Liz g

      Last comment to you, I do not and never have advocated any form of blood and soil voting system, and resent that you imply by your “hope” that I ever might have.

    314. Bob Mack says:

      ‘re English voters.

      God forbid we go to racial purity for voting rights.

      It starts with excluding “non Scots” and ends with you having to produce family trees to certify you belong to a nation to be entitled to vote. Yuk !!

    315. Republicofscotland says:

      “Forgot to mention a day or so ago… Did anybody else notice on two consecutive days the American DC10 with two jet escort flying over Scotland”


      I’m pretty sure avation is a reserved matter, meaning Scots have no say in who flies over our airspace no matter what cargo they carry.

      I recall black ops rendition flights being exposed landing at Scottish airports on their way to and from the USA.

      We Scots let Westminster do as it pleases with our airspace.

    316. Republicofscotland says:

      The National carries a story about Craig Murray, Mark Hirst and Salmond, and the gathering support they are receiving from around the globe including renowned and influencal figures.

      “LEADING international cultural and political figures including the Pink Floyd musician Roger Waters, the playwright Sir David Hare and the linguist Noam Chomsky have backed a former diplomat and his ally who have been charged in connection with the Alex Salmond case.”

      “They are among a range of high profile people who have written to the Lord Advocate raising concerns about a decision to charge Craig Murray and Mark Hirst – two supporters of the former First Minister – with contempt of court. Both Murray and Hirst deny the charges.”

      I hope the bastards sit up and pay attention to this, they’d do well to drop the charges, or face a backlash.

    317. Clapper57 says:

      The hatred runs deep in Unionists …so much so that…self appointed ‘relevant’ dude George (The Hat) Galloway retweeting Effie Deans tweet re investigation needed on Nike conference, death in Scotland via Covid, why Scotland has more deaths per capita ….no investigation cited for England though in Effie’s tweet…George seems fine with that….obvs….as George wants to stick with the (Effie’s) program….

      Meanwhile also on his Twitter account, he goes into reverse mode and shows his ‘socialist’ solidarity…. by also tweeting his indignation on ‘New labour’s slight to Jeremy Corbyn….George stuck in the middle between supporting Corbyn and also supporting a Tory supporting propaganda account…..Oh what to do…well easy for George who finds it much easier to change ‘sides’ politically than change his contrived appearance …i.e. try NOT wearing a hat inside for once….so he finds it easier to hide his thinning hair than his hatred of much so that he will share ANY platform with a Tory….

      Funny how easy they, Unionists, manage to merge, indeed unite politically as one, in their hatred of the SNP…I say SNP but really tis independence that is the REAL target for their hatred…..George and Effie soldiers of fortune for the UKnotOK

      George be like …” Go Effie Go “…..

      Apologies for going off topic in current discussion re letter in Sunday National…but others on here are adding far better points than I could on that….so hey I am just adding another wee point to add to the list of hypocrites willing to sell their political souls to maintain the ‘Union’ (Non)…..and George is the gift that keeps on giving….

    318. bipod says:

      Interesting article from an NHS doctor on how covid 19 deaths are recorded and the possible side effects of lockdown

      Lockdown fanatics will continue to pretend that lockdown saved hundreds of thousands of lives with zero evidence.

    319. Ottomanboi says:

      Lockdown originated with an unelected global body the WHO. Its ‘advice’ and its interpretation of ‘the science’ were taken up by national governments. entities consisting, lest we forget, of ad hoc appointees effectively accountable to the individual who selects them. In most cases national elected parliaments and public opinion were not consulted before emergency measures were enacted.
      This is ‘world government’ in action. Officious authoritarianism wearing its prophylactic device with consummate conceit.
      We’re going to be living with the consequences of a failure in this particular device for decades to come.
      The daily stats on that may not be so eagerly made public.

    320. Dogbiscuit says:

      I just had the misfortune to see a Dallas shop owner being beaten to death by angry ‘oppressed’, ‘protestors’. I wonder if the knobs at Trafalger Suare know how many people have been murdered by ‘protestors? These ore organised riots have the Democrat parties fingerprints all over them.

    321. robert graham says:

      Anyone having problems accessing RT clips or featured content like The Alex Salmond show , livestream is a buffering nightmare , wouldnt be anything the English government are doing maybe you guys from the 77th can answer that problem eh wakey wakey anyone at home , come on we know you are watching

    322. Dogbiscuit says:

      Liz g being the classroom sneak again.

    323. Dogbiscuit says:

      Protestors prove social distancing argument is totally fucked.

    324. Dogbiscuit says:

      Time for Church.

    325. gus1940 says:

      I have long been accustomed to the near universal ignorance over the meaning and use of ‘decimate’ and have more or less accepted that it is a lost cause as far as a remedy is concerned.

      However, a new problem has been with us for some time with the daily misuse in the media of ‘sunk’ and ‘sank’ , and ‘led’ and ‘lead’.

      A terrible reflection of our modern educational system.

    326. CameronB Brodie says:

      I wish folk would stop cherry picking information to suite their political agenda. That’s the abuse of science and the sort of crap Dom Cummings indulges himself in. We are not past the point of serious risk yet, IMHO.

      Critical realism and health promotion: effective practice needs an effective theory

    327. MaggieC says:

      Colin Alexander @ 12.16 pm Re your above post remember Alex Salmond declared in May 2018 that he was ready to return to front line politics to fight in indyref 2 and suddenly these charges appear after he decided to return to politics under the new procedures passed in Dec 2017 .

      This is a link to The Scotsman article re Alex returning to politics when he addressed a meeting in Morningside .

      Also I found this interesting Freedom of Information question & reply on Scot Gov website re number of sexual & verbal harassment complaints made between 2013 & 2017

      Also from Scot Gov re handling procedures

      But also this interesting question from Monica Lennon

      From this Scot Gov Committee

      Why had none of these charges against Alex not brought up before the Indy Ref in 2014 if they had occurred from 2008 onwards ??

      So they couldn’t get Alex so now they go after Craig Murray and Mark Hirst . The whole thing stinks.

      Can I just say a Thank You on here to all who have signed the letter in the National .

    328. McDuff says:


      From “England expects” through to the Dads Army theme.
      All the old war movies talk about England and the English, rUK non existent and this promotes “England stood alone”. Oddly the neutral Rep Irl is ever present.

    329. Republicofscotland says:

      I had to laugh this morning at the hypocrisy dominating from that hapless tool Dominic Raab on the Marr show.

      As Marr made clear that some sort of exit deal with Hong Kong in 1997 meant that up to 3.3 million people living their could be eligible for a British passport, and come to the UK.

      Raab replied saying that it could be triggered if China didn’t drop some strict laws it was about to introduce in Hong Kong. Raab went on to denounce China for treating Hong Kong in this manner and flouting International laws.

      What sprung to my mind was the way Westminster treated the Custodian people and how they openly flouted International laws, and that they are detaining Julian Assange without charge.

    330. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I live in Dundee, which appears to be the most heavily infected city in Scotland.

      The Oxford Handbook of Global Justice
      A Critical Theory of Transnational (In-)Justice: Realistic in the Right Way

    331. Republicofscotland says:

      Chagossian people bloody predictive text..duh.

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.P.S. I’m locked-down in Dundee would be more accurate.

      Research for the People, by the People: The Political
      Practice of Cognitive Justice and Transformative
      Learning in Environmental Social Movements

    333. Sensibledave says:

      Robert Graham

      Captain Sensible of the 77th here!

      Regretfully, we can take no credit for your dodgy broadband connection … but happy to if you could write to M.

      At the mo, our tactics are to leave things alone, 00Sturgeon has got herself in to position to sit on any moves for us now … although as a relative amateur she may have overplayed her hand and been rumbled by some of the Brains Trust on here. She was commended (in secret obvs) for her work with the economy and ensuring that oil prices would go through the floor as well as the introduction of the men in dresses Legislation. Sterling work (if you will forgive the pun!).

      We also had to nobble the jury in the AS case. They were going to convict him don’t you know! We couldn’t be having that. We need AS running wild and amok. Split the votes, split the resolve, Rule Britannia and all that.

      What do people think of our rouses to ensure that there is no decent national football or rugby team in Scotland. Do you think we have been successful?

      Anyway, that’s the Captain’s log up to date. Have you tried switching your router off and then on again?

      PS I must apologise for one of our agents having gone “rouge”. CBB was supposed to bring an air of intelligence, respectability, knowledge and interest to diverting everyone from their agenda. We have lost contact with him and now he just posts boring links and pi****s everyone off. Mission accomplished … but no subtlety I’m afraid.

      Toodle pip for now!

    334. CameronB Brodie says:

      Toodle pip indeed.

      A Realistic View on Law and Legal Cognition

    335. Col.Blimp IV says:


      I had to google “Custodian People” – LoL

      It looks like you may have an Anglo-American imperialist spellchecker – Who is contractually obliged to ignore the Chagossians.

    336. Beaker says:

      @Dan says:
      31 May, 2020 at 1:34 pm
      “Forgot to mention a day or so ago… Did anybody else notice on two consecutive days the American DC10 with two jet escort flying over Scotland.”

      DC10s are used as air-air refuelling tankers, and almost always fly with an escort. The main air corridor from North America to Europe goes over Scotland. It’s called a geodesic.

      Doubt if it is anything sinister. But, given that the flight path goes quite near to Durham, maybe someone is taking personal security a bit too far.

    337. callmedave says:

      Pleased to read in ‘The National’ the open letter and the list of co-signers brought into a wider public arena.

      Can’t wait until other ‘Scottish’ papers follow along behind next week. 🙂

      No news on England BBC websites for or about the virus but they have posted numbers on the other Nations sites.

      N. Ireland……today……..01……….Total……523…BBC
      UK ………….today……*113 …….Total…..*38489..*SUN

    338. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Oops – missed your explanation.

    339. Beaker says:

      @Col.Blimp IV says:
      31 May, 2020 at 3:50 pm

      “I had to google “Custodian People” – LoL
      It looks like you may have an Anglo-American imperialist spellchecker – Who is contractually obliged to ignore the Chagossians.”

      Could be worse, you could have typed in custard…

    340. Republicofscotland says:

      Thank you beaker, it would funny if it wasn’t so annoying.

    341. Sarah says:

      @ Clapper 57 at 1.19: Hi. Having a lovely day again here in W Ross – excessive heat tempered by a stiff breeze, thank goodness. Got the loose cover washed and almost dry already. Don’t say I don’t know how to enjoy myself!

    342. callmedave says:

      Rough sleepers initiative in England announced at the WM briefing.
      6000 new supported homes

      £433M to be spent in total with £160M fast tracked to get 3300 homes started within a year.

      Don’t have a clue if any consequentials trickle down to the ‘devolved’ governments.

    343. MaggieC says:

      Clapper57 @ 12.56 pm , Thanks for your good wishes , We’re all well here and adhering to lockdown , it’s come close to a couple of arguments with the males in the house and I’ve not done them in yet LOL

      I’ve had “ words “ with a few folk when out for essential shopping and told them basically “ 6ft apart is better than 6ft under “ and have only swore at two folk so far because they were right up beside in a queue LOL . Got to the stage in life they can bu**er off LOL .

    344. David says:

      The Nike conference outbreak was nothing minor it means the virus was in Scotland a lot earlier than we were told. NHS England amongst others was told we were not .I think Dominic panicked can I ask everyone don’t use the virus to make political points

    345. Ron Maclean says:

      @Sensibledave 2:45pm

      aka Captain Waggett – Google ‘Whisky Galore’

      I resent your attempts to take the full credit for our incompetence. OBEs should not be that easy to get.

    346. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @hackalumpoff –

      Thanks for link to petition. Done.


    347. Ottomanboi says:

      Very depressing thoughts from Montana based, I like isolation, Niall Ferguson.
      Go screw yourself or whatever they do in the Rockies.

    348. Clapper57 says:

      @ Call me Dave

      Hi , belated thank you for your perseverance in posting the daily update figures….very informative.

      Have a nice day

      BTW is it true that some people assume that Michael Gove ‘may’ have been FIDDLING with something (private as in…part) oh and doing it WHILE Dom C was still getting BURNED….saw yesterday he had to delete something on his twitter account….naughty naughty boy….he has went DOWN in many people’s estimations….as did the image that was on his Twitter account…sorry but I m not going to give you a BLOW by BLOW account of what was in picture….but apparently he ‘liked’ it……probably like Damien Green he was #sharingHisDevice with ‘others’….sure…that’ll be it……ps. use of word ‘device’ not being used as a euphemism.

    349. callmedave says:


      Thanks for the link: Signed.



      Hmm Gove! I get the drift! 🙂

    350. Sensibledave says:

      Ron 4.52

      … err, the knighthood sir.

      Risking life and limb conversing with the uppity jocks is perceived as front line action internally, so the KBE comes with 20 years and the pension.

    351. Liz g says:

      Hackalumpoff @ 4.44
      Petition signed…thanks for the link

    352. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for the WEF link, though I’ve got to challenge a casual claim made by Niall Ferguson.

      “You can tell people: the lockdown’s over, back to work. They’ve already done that in China. But you can’t tell them: go out shopping, go to the movies. They’re not going to do that, because people are rational. Up to a certain point, they adjust their behaviour and try to avoid situations that would likely cause disease spread to resume.”

      Cognitive science has shown use human tend not to be rational. Though Ferguson is politically on the right, he appears to be the same type of clown-shoes economist as Gordon Brown. Humans tend not to have perfect knowledge, so tend to make a lot of decisions based on emotional thinking rather than reasoned logic. So it is irrational to expect the public to act rationally. This is why maintaining the rule-of-law is so vital.

      Emotion and Decision Making

    353. twathater says:

      @ hackalumpoff 4.44pm thanks for the link also signed and wife

    354. Haagsehighlander says:

      Hackalumpoff @ 4.44
      Thanks for link, signed

    355. Haagsehighlander says:

      Hackalumpoff @ 4.44
      Signed, thanks for link

    356. Haagsehighlander says:

      And you wonder why, some people lurk ^ 😉

    357. Ottomanboi says:

      Those Chinese CommiCapitalists, don’t ya just lurv ‘em.
      “O brave new world that has such people in’t”

    358. TJenny says:

      hackalumpoff – thanks for link to letter, duly signed.

    359. Colin Alexander says:


      I have also signed the letter. Thank you.

    360. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Clapper57 2.03: “Funny how easy they, Unionists, manage to merge, indeed unite politically as one, in their hatred of the SNP…I say SNP but really tis independence that is the REAL target for their hatred…..George and Effie soldiers of fortune for the UKnotOK.”

      Well spotted: Gorgeous George is in favour of independence for all the oppressed proletariats around the world, it’s just Scotland which has to have solidarity with fabled bus drivers in Birmingham and dockers in Liverpool foisted on us, a solidarity which is never reciprocated.

      Always remember the Sainted John Smith’s comment to the effect that Ravenscraig jobs coudn’t be saved if it meant putting steel jobs in England at risk.

    361. Tinto Chiel says:

      Oh, and thanks hacka!

    362. Sarah says:

      @ hackalumpoff: thanks. Signed as will fellow inmate.

    363. Rm says:

      Speaking to a polish joiner and his mate a few months back, asked them how they liked Scotland, great they said plenty work we’ve been here for 6 years, got onto politics I asked how they would vote in Indy ref 2, they both said they wouldn’t vote as it’s up to Scots people to determine their own country’s Future we might end up going back to Poland we haven’t the right to vote and that really goes for any foreign national living in Scotland including english, Welsh and Irish they might all go back to their own country’s one day so really only Scottish born people have the right to determine our future.

    364. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ Hacka: Mrs Chiel signed too. Do you think we’ll be picked up by the fuzz? 🙂

    365. Ron Maclean says:

      @Sensibledave 5:36pm

      Watch you don’t get trampled in the rush once Covig19 and Brexit are over.

    366. Mist001 says:

      Hands up how many people here were under the impression that the lockdown restrictions were for the benefit of our own, and other peoples health?

      As I understand it and probably everyone else in Scotland understood it, the restrictions were in place to relieve a potential strain on the NHS.

      Am I right?

      Turns that I, and everyone else who though the same as me, were wrong.

      Mrs. Murrell is now using the lockdown restrictions as a threat of punishment. I’m not fucking joking either.

      Who the FUCK does this woman think she is???

      And BTW, don’t have a go at me, I’m only the messenger, but this woman is the kind of fuckwit you want to take Scotland to independence? Don’t make me fucking laugh.

      “Nicola Sturgeon warns restrictions could be ‘reapplied’ if people break five-mile rule”.

      You’ve been warned, The lockdown will be reapplied as a PUNISHMENT. Her words, not mine.

    367. hackalumpoff says:

      @Tinto Chiel says:

      “Do you think we’ll be picked up by the fuzz?”

      You may have crossed the Bikini line there Tinto!

    368. robbo says:

      I see wan o the Rev’s fav’s is sinking lower than usual.

      Blair M’c Dick

    369. Marie Clark says:

      Thanks hacka, duly signed.

    370. Republicofscotland says:



    371. Bob Mack says:


    372. Fireproofjim says:

      hackalumpoff @4.44
      Signed thanks for that.

    373. North chiel says:

      A lot of sense in Colin Alexander’s post of 1141 a.m. yesterday. I particularly agree with the concept of a dual / simoultaneous legal challenge as mentioned re the “ sovereignty” of the UK Parliament ( pre dating the 1707 treaty . In effect the former “ English Parliament” ) ,together with a challenge relating to the de facto “ breaches “ of the 1707 treaty.
      In particular , I personally cannot comprehend how a “ supposed “ UK Westminster Parliament can “ devolve” powers to a Scottish Parliament without devolving the exact same powers to an equivalent “ English Parliament “ ( elected by PR as per Holyrood when the same UK Parliament “ replaced” apparently both the Scots and English Parliaments pre 1707) .
      I can understand the devolvement of powers to Wales & Northern Ireland ( as per Robert Peffers .ie previously subsumed & being part of the “ English state” in effect .
      However as the 1707 treaty was specifically between the separate Scottish and English states exclusively then surely an exactly equivalent English Parliament should have been established In 1998 ?
      I certainly feel these legal challenges are warranted and necessary as per Colin Alexander’s post . Also he could have added a final sentence quoting an old Scots saying “ possession is nine tenths of the law” .

    374. Fireproofjim says:

      Watch your blood pressure, mate

    375. Kenny says:

      Dear Nicola Sturgeon

      “No one can get up much enthusiasm for a Government which puts you in jail if you open your mouth.”

      Thank you.

      Yours sincerely,

      George Orwell

    376. Ian Brotherhood says:

      BellCaledonia making itself even more unpopular than it already was by stating that those signing the Murray/Hirst letter are ‘misguided’. (Aye, that includes Chomsky.)

      This is just mind-boggling. Who on earth could object to supporting those men, given the circumstances?

    377. robbo says:

      This is very sad and very hard to watchfolks!

      Be warned folks it’s quite harrowing .

      I do not want America’s type of republic for Scotland .I want a fair and balanced democratic country,not one that shields thugs like this.

      A Police Officers first duty is to protect the public above all else,not brutalise and kill them.

    378. Confused says:

      MS is a “modern studies teacher who wants to be a guardian journalist”

      – saw this the other day, explains much

      why “the left” is a pseudo-left –

      – nothing all that surprising to anyone who’s been paying attention for the past 30 years, but nice to see it all laid out

    379. Gfaetheblock says:


      I am not sure if chomsky read the yes minister ‘parody’ or how well he knows the people in the SNP referred to, but I know who Craig was insinuating who one of the people involved in the trial were because that blog and that (the outing of potential victims of sexual crime, whether proven or not), whatever you think of the people involved, feels like very troubling position to take.

    380. Gfaetheblock says:

      Apologies, Ian, not iain.

    381. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gfaetheblock –

      We’ve gone through all the different aspects of this case right here, frequently, and in some detail, so most folk will have made their minds up by now.

    382. Colin Alexander says:

      North chiel

      This old post from Andrew Tickell on his Lalland’s Peat Worrier blog ( and the comments) may be of interest:

      It seems he argues the Treaty / Acts of Union are antiquated mince. (But, Cherry and Miller’s counsel both relied on antiquated legislation in their legal arguments: Claim of Right and Bill of Rights etc).

      But lets assume Andrew Tickell is right, is that a double-edged sword?

      If the Treaty / Acts of Union are non-justiciable for indy supporters, wouldn’t the same apply to the UK ?

      Does the UK state have any LEGAL basis to prevent Scotland doing whatever the people of Scotland democratically decide?

      Is it the case Scotland is ruled by UK Parliament only because we allow it to and so “sovereignty of parliament” applies only until we say it does not?

    383. Sinky says:

      Mst001@6.48 Get a life.

      It must pain many posters on here that Nicola Sturgeon’s ratings and SNP support at all time high.

      I was Alex Salmond’s biggest fan until he took the tainted rouble but have to admit that Nicola Sturgeon has appealed to many more undecided indy supporters.

    384. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Colin Alexander (8.34) –

      That’s probably one for CamB as he was putting LPW right on constitutional law just a few days ago.

    385. North chiel says:

      “Colin ALEXANDER @ 0834 pm “ . Yes an interesting link thank you. Also an interesting “ comment” thereafter from “ “ Mad Jock Macmad @2125 on July 5th 2015”.
      I don’t see in any case why “ ongoing legal challenges” against recent (Brexit) , and not so recent ( EVEL ) , and other similar “ actions” of the UK Westminster Parliament , cannot be instigated which could possibly clarify and link the “ self determination” of the People of Scotland ( sovereignty) from the previous historical events to the present day .
      The separate “ Scottish crown” issue could also be linked from The Arbroath declaration, (( where the people have the authority to remove the crown if the said people’s wishes are not respected ( Brexit?) as this would appear to be intertwined with the parliamentary issues .))
      Eventually , I would assume that “ the people of Scotland’s case would have to be heard at International Court level ?

    386. Ottomanboi says:

      Corona AgitProp type ad from virgin media with isn’t isolation fun message featuring dancing, singing children currently airing on terrestrial.
      Exploitative, Manipulative? Creepy?
      Surely not…..this is the democratic west after all,
      Abuse of children can take many forms.

    387. Liz g says:

      Gfaetheblock @ 8.00pm
      I can’t see why it’s troubling at all..
      If the two men have seemingly acted against the law then by all means test it in a court.
      But that test should also be equally applicable to the other three who allegedly did the self same thing.
      That’s the troubling aspect of all this….only supporters of Alex Salmond have been charged…..the law to have any credibility must apply to everyone!
      We don’t even get to freedom of journalist expression till we’ve addressed the even application of the law.

      Not to forget that Chomsky and a fair few of those who have signed that letter are not themselves bound by this law.
      So to misuse that law in this way risks the undermining of it by those who would seek to prevent it being used as a political weapon.
      Therefore it is in the interests of everyone that this is addressed…..Wings did try,but was getting the run around mibbi now things will progress.

    388. Colin Alexander says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Let’s no forget Forward as One’s case re, an indyref without the UK state approval.

      So constitutional matters are a live issue.

      But as that case is currently in court, now is probably no the time to discuss that specific matter.

    389. robertknight says:

      Dinky @ 8:51

      “It must pain many posters on here that Nicola Sturgeon’s ratings and SNP support at all time high.”

      High amongst who? Voters from the left who live in England and who yearn for anyone other than BawJaws?

      I’m not a bit interested in the popularity of NS/SNP amongst those who have neither the desire, nor the opportunity, to vote for Indy.

      I’m only interested in her desire and her ability to deliver Indy, and I have serious doubts about both!

    390. Papko says:

      “I was Alex Salmond’s biggest fan until he took the tainted rouble but have to admit that Nicola Sturgeon has appealed to many more undecided indy supporters.”
      I agree with you Slinky,
      Nicola is very well presented and articulate, a creditable representative for our country.
      That she strides Scottish politics and manages to keep those of us with mortgages and jobs on side as well as the Strongbow soaked AUOB radicals. Its a glowing testimony to her acumen and wily leadership.

    391. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I certainly can’t see how Brexit is proportionate and reasonable in law.

      Social Rights Jurisprudence
      1 – The Justiciability of Social Rights: From Practice to Theory

    392. Clapper57 says:

      @ Tinto Chiel @ 6.18pm

      Hi Tinto agree……and let’s not forget in Indy Ref 2014 he was using the argument that it would be a great loss for Scotland NOT being in the EU if they left the UK….so before Indy Ref 2014 George was very PRO EU….and wanted to remain in the EU…

      He was shown on a programme on TV as saying that he would ‘Campaign to remain in any EU REF as anyone with any brain cells will also be doing”

      Fast forward to 2016 EU Ref…and guess what…. George had an opposing argument…EU bad…would vote Leave….and said he was on Nigel’s side…Nigel Farage….enough said.

      George demanded, in a pro Leave rally speech, pre 2016 EU Ref that ‘BritNatLand’ should be an INDEPENDENT and SOVEREIGN and DEMOCRATIC country….yeah I know….just like all the other flip flop Unionists….two faced …they cannae help themselves.

    393. terence callachan says:

      Bob Mack…..don’t conflate the “ right to vote “ as you put it
      With a single subject Scottish independence referendum


      Of course everyone living in Scotland should have the right to vote in general elections local council elections Scottish govt elections

      But a single subject about the future of a country should not be Dee died by people who are here short term who’s allegiance lies with another country

      Let me remind you that at present not everyone living in Scotland gets to vote in general elections r Scottish govt elections or council elections it depends on your right to remain in U.K. which is decided by Westminster

      I’m sick of people making that stupid comment you made bob as if it’s normal for people to have voted in the Scottish referendum 2014 people who no longer live I n Scotland and will never return to Scotland because they were only here short term and knew they were here short term the classic example being students I knew a few Italians Germans who voted NO in 2014 because they believed the bettertogether nonsense that a Scottish independent govt would tax them more and you know what ? none of them live here now they were only here three years to study

      That cannot be allowed to happen again

      The biggest group from another country that come to Scotland short term to work are English people and they have a never talked about vested interest in voting NO to Scottish independence which is that England can continue to control Scotland and benefit from that control and continue to send people to do jobs in Scotland that Scottish people here are perfectly capable of doing

    394. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Sinky says:
      31 May, 2020 at 8:51 pm

      “I was Alex Salmond’s biggest fan until he took the tainted rouble”

      You need to give us some context here, some of us have no idea how many tainted Roubles there are to a defiled Dollar or a putrid Pound.

    395. Craig Murray says:


      I don’t believe that anybody who refers to “Strongbow soaked AUOB radicals” has the slightest idea who goes on AUOB marches, or is a supporter of Scottish Independence.

    396. Clapper57 says:

      Signed the letter ….

    397. robbo says:

      To Misty for me,bipod,the dug and other d-criers of lockdown.

      We’re all tired of physical isolation.The covid virus is not tired.

      It’s a bloody good job none of you lot were ever in the military,you’d never have lasted 8 hours in a fox hole,never mind 8 weeks.

      Get a grip.

    398. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Craig Murray –

      Papko may well have been referring to me, which is fair enough.

    399. Craig Murray says:


      Papko’s comment was well out of order, contrasting “those of us with mortgages and jobs” with people on AUOB marches who he/she evidently views as unemployed as well as “Strongbow soaked”.

      It is a horrible bit of snobbish class prejudice were it true; it is also simply untrue of folk on AUOB marches, who span a whole range of Scottish society.

    400. CameronB Brodie says:

      The British constitution was established through Treaty law, which specified moral parameters for government that aim to ensure equal legal treatment of both Scottish and English cultures. Regard to the natural law ensured these legal obligations were maintained by the state until Brexit, which is unsupportable in constitutional law, as it takes no account of the economic, social, and cultural right of those living in Scotland. So Brexit lacks “proportionality”, which is essential to liberal constitutionalism. As such, the constitution no longer supports a dialogue between Scottish and English cultures, only a monologue of right-wing English nationalism.

      The Epistemological
      Foundations of Law

    401. Colin Alexander says:

      Cameron, for you:

      University of St Andrews

      “Pre-1707 statutes still in force

      As of October 2017 there are 83 Acts of Parliaments of Scotland (the pre-1707 Scottish parliament) still in force, either wholly, partly or as revised and amended by subsequent legislation”.

    402. Col.Blimp IV says:


      “That she strides Scottish politics and manages to keep those of us with mortgages and jobs on side as well as the Strongbow soaked AUOB radicals. Its a glowing testimony to her acumen and wily leadership.”

      Are you implying that our “wily” First Minister is deceiving some of us?

    403. CameronB Brodie says:

      Colin Alexander
      It is hard to describe contemporary Scots law and practice as anything other English law’s gimp. 😉

      Legal Realism and Natural Law

    404. Colin Alexander says:

      And is Papko suggesting the Scot Govt’s alcohol minimum pricing legislation has been an absolute failure?

      I thought that’s one of the best pieces of legislation any Scot Govt has ever enacted and the SNP Scot Govt / Scottish Parliament deserve credit for that.

    405. Jason Smoothpiece says:


      I try to go to all of the marches never met any Strongbow soaked radicals.

      Met lots of nice people. You should go along to one of you get the chance maybe change your outlook.

    406. CameronB Brodie says:

      Well thought out public law that helps to prevent harm to the vulnerable, has to be considered worthwhile, unlike Brexit.

      Realism and Analysis within Public Law
      The aim of this paper is to explore assertions of realism in public law. Given the breadth of this goal it is proposed to confine the examination to one particular area of public law, that of constitutionalism, and three particular theorists, namely Allan1, Loughlin2 and Walker3.

      All three theorists assert that their explanation of constitutionalism represents a form of reality. Loughlin, for example, argues that his understanding of constitutional reality can be found in ‘the structure of beliefs that constitute the idea of public law’ along with the ‘set of ideas which we are obliged to accept’ combined with the ‘basic concepts which are pre-supposed’ when we ‘speak and act in public law terms’.4

      Loughlin observations are represented as a true account of ‘the character of actually existing constitutional arrangements’.5 Walker presents quite a different view of reality, one that consists of multiple constitutional authority formations and interpretations6 which are spread globally in ‘a complex and ever-shifting mosaic of the new and the old, the emergent and the mature’.7 Unlike Loughlin and Walker, Allan is less concerned with representing the ‘big picture’ of the theory of constitutionalism.

      For Allan constitutionalism is centred on judicial activism which is in turn based on a theory of the rule of law, derived from the common law tradition. It is acknowledged that there are many other public lawyers who write on constitutionalism but, as illustrated above, Allan, Loughlin and Walker’s represent a diverse range of analyses on the topic. This then raises the question: how can such diverse, possibly even incompatible analyses, all represent reality?

      In order to answer this question the paper will begin by considering how to test for realism in public law and then examine representations of realism in order to identify key features of realism analysis. The writings of Allan, Loughlin and Walker in relation to constitutionalism will then be explored with reference to the identified features. The paper will conclude by offering a number of comments on realism and analysis in public law.

    407. Colin Alexander says:

      CameronB Brodie

      It’s amazing how quickly the Scottish Parliament can pass legislation when it wants to, such as the Coronavirus legislation or making Holyrood five year terms on a permanent basis but, legislation to make Scottish judges sign a register of interests has taken years and years and years of discussions, consideration, committees etc etc.

    408. North chiel says:

      Having taken part in AUOB marches in both Aberdeen & Inverness , I can truthfully say that not once did I witness any behaviour that was other than being peaceful , mannerly & orderly at all times . More like a “ family day out “ with both adults and children present .

    409. Bob Mack says:

      @Terence Callachan,

      Every racist ever met, (and it’s a few), has reasons why another group needs to be excluded. You are no different.

    410. Colin Alexander says:

      November 2019

      “MSPs back forcing judges to declare all financial interests”

      “Last week Moi Ali, who resigned as Scotland’s first judicial complaints reviewer in 2014, complaining her role was “toothless”, told the committee that concerns were “the baseless claims of a backward judiciary seeking to defend an opaque system that is open to nepotism and bias”. “

    411. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Craig Murray on 31 May, 2020 at 10:25 pm.

      You referred to,

      I don’t believe that anybody who refers to “Strongbow soaked AUOB radicals” has the slightest idea who goes on AUOB marches, or is a supporter of Scottish Independence.”

      Papko is trolling. I was on all the AUOB marches in 2019 except Oban and the march in Glasgow in January, 2020 (Hello again!)
      Before each of them, I had no more than a pint of Tennents. Same goes for my son – one pint.

      Papko gives the impression of being a potentially divisive @R$e…

    412. Colin Alexander says:

      Moi Ali: 24th February 2017

      “Police board member quits after claiming she was punished for raising concerns about Scottish Police Authority”

      ” Ms Ali said: “I felt I had to do it because there is a really important principle at stake, and that principle is that I believe board members have a duty to provide challenge in a public forum. If dissent is only allowed privately, then I think decision making becomes shrouded in a kind of fog.”

      “She continued: “I felt that I could not any longer go to a board meeting where I felt I could freely express my views. It was made very clear to me that public dissent would not be accepted.” “

    413. Papko says:

      @Major Blinky
      “Are you implying that our “wily” First Minister is deceiving some of us?”
      that’s the way I hoped the sentence would be interpreted, I did decide wily, though I had considered complacent, naïve and carefree.

      It is obvious to me that our FM has the same type of problem as other leaders of great movements had at various times in history.
      How do you convert the warm glow of a better future, into the dull as a ditch business of governing.

      My reference was a tad harsh, I meet SNP supporters all the time and the ones with mortgages seem to think Scotland will re-industrialise after Indy, and return to busy High streets and pubs full.
      Whereas them on the long term DLA, are just angry at the Tories for restricting their way of life and clutch at any straw.
      Indy to them is getting signed off for life and having time to finish their album.

    414. Beaker says:

      @robbo says:
      31 May, 2020 at 10:26 pm
      “To Misty for me,bipod,the dug and other d-criers of lockdown.

      It’s a bloody good job none of you lot were ever in the military,you’d never have lasted 8 hours in a fox hole,never mind 8 weeks.”

      8 hours? That’s generous. I doubt they would have lasted 8 minutes.

    415. Colin Alexander says:

      Moi Ali: Currently she is the Independent Assessor of Complaints for the Crown Prosecution Service.

      I wonder how the Crown Prosecution Service (England and Wales) complaints system compares with the Scottish COPFS?

    416. Dan says:

      The Strongbow Soaked AUOB Radicals debut album was ace!

      I got VIP tickets to see their first big-time gig at The Barrowlands. I’ve still got their T shirt somewhere.

      Think I have attended all but two of the AUOB events, either marching or with The Yes Bikers, and can honestly say they were all braw days spent with braw folk, from ALL walks of life as one would expect seeing as AUOB is an abbreviation for ALL Under One Banner.

    417. Beaker says:

      If you think things are fucked here, look at America. Trump designates ANTIFA as a terrorist organisation, then ANTIFA allegedly tweets encouraging their members to loot surburban homes, then Twitter bans them…

      I’m just amazed Trump didn’t mix them up with AntnDec.

    418. Ayeright says:

      Papko pulls your chain and you fall for it.

    419. Millennium says:

      It’s the same fannies who chase down the so called trolls on Wings all the fuckin time,,,

      Liz g

      And what do they all have in common?

      They are all Flat Earther Sturgeonistas

    420. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s rather harsh and unreasonable judgement from Millennium, IMHO, which is unsurprising.

      I appreciate this paper focuses on the USA, but human nature is pretty much universal.


      Recent scholarship on the workings of the court system has cast doubt on the ability of judges to make neutral, unbiased decisions. Statistical analyses of judicial decisions have identified a sizable minority of decisions that appear to be influenced by a judge’s ideology. These findings have fueled a “neutrality crisis” regarding the courts system’s ability to live up to its role as a neutral arbiter.

      Naïve realism accounts for this ideological bias by suggesting that judges, as humans, are subject to the same sort of perception biases as anyone else and that these unconscious biases can affect their decisions. By locating the source of the “neutrality crisis” in the unconscious, these scholars seek to account for the findings of the political scientists, while maintaining the legitimacy of
      the current institutional structure.

      However, this response is cynical. Cynicism anticipates the revelation of some real truth that undermines the ideology supporting the social fabric of society. By framing politically derived decisions as a product of naïve realism and offering advice on how to obscure unconscious judicial bias, legal scholars are employing cynical reasoning to maintain an illusion of neutrality while justifying non-neutral decision-making. This cynical reasoning sacrifices long-term “Rule of Law” interests for the sake of short-term political stability – an unnecessary and detrimental tradeoff.

      This Note seeks to isolate this issue and offer an alternative solution to the neutrality crisis informed by the latest findings from cognitive psychology and behavior economics. Judges must cultivate an independent ideology that is self-conscious of any personal biases and seeks to overcome those biases so that they may engage legal questions with a more detached, reasoned, and just decision making process. This method will lead to more neutral, unbiased decisions from the bench and strengthen the rule of law in the United States.

    421. Ayeright says:

      I’m on another list! Hurrah! Been a while 🙂

      It’s the same fannies who chase down the so called trolls on Wings all the fuckin time,,,

      Liz g

    422. defo says:

      Signed. Breath held!

    423. Ayeright says:

      That wee list looks to me a lot like genuine Independence supporters. Millennium and those of his ilk not so much.

      I can guess why they want to silence those “on the list” though.

    424. CameronB Brodie says:

      Human nature is pretty much universal but human culture is certainly diverse, and it these cultural differences that make peoples and nations unique. Although British culture is pretty much ubiquitous in Brexitania, is does not represent the authentic cultures of either Scotland or England. Fortunately, British constitutionalism has determined to clarify the issue by making a consideration of Scottish culture superfluous to the practice of Brexitanian constitutional law. That’s English despotism that is.

      The body social: an enactive approach to the self

    425. Ayeright says:

      Who was that last guy that kept describing Independence supporters as “Sturgeonistas” in at least 2 dozen posts a day?

    426. Col.Blimp IV says:


      You spend lot of time deriding flat-earthers.

      Have you ever personally conducted any experiments, made observations or calculations that lead you to believe that it is some other shape?

      I would be interested in seeing your results.

    427. Ayeright says:

      Hey Millennium

      Can you show me evidence when any on your list were chasing “down the so called trolls”? Prove it yah fanny LOL

    428. susan says:

      I’ve only been to one AUOB march – Inverness – and it was a great, good natured day out. No drunkenness or aggression.

    429. robertknight says:

      Ayeright @ 2:08

      “Jackie” I think it was, who also had a racist/anglophobic streak a mile wide. Not posted for a while so either banned, lurking or ‘contributing’ as someone else.

    430. Oneliner says:

      Papko is right when he mentions AS taking ‘the tainted rouble’ – that’s what really spooked the spooks and provoked some establishment knicker twisting.
      Two months after his TV debut, he is hit with a civil disservice – I don’t consider that to be a coincidence.

      … and to all flatearthers – check out the Bedford Level Experiment

    431. McDuff says:

      Terence Callachan 10.05

      You are absolutely right of course, but I would have stipulated that people must have been resident in Scotland for ten years,thus showing a commitment to the country.
      We were voting for the freedom and that vote should not have been given away so casually.
      For a start all the EU residents who were subjected to intense media coverage informing them that if they voted yes Scotland would be out of the EU leaving them displaced. So they voted No.
      And of course all but a handful of English residents voted Yes with the vast majority voting No.
      I believe it was all these votes for No that lost us the referendum.

    432. Old Pete says:

      As regards the Independence referendum, apparently a majority of Scottish born voted Yes.

      Scottish government seem to be showing how to govern during a pandemic. Majority of Scots think they are doing an excellent job, BoJoe and his bunch are seen as the total opposite.

    433. Mike d says:

      McDuff. Along with the postals fraudulent vote.

    434. Mike d says:

      I’ve travelled up to glasgow for the last two AUOB marches, and because of toilet problems, the only time i had a few beers was back at glasgow central before my train back to england. No trouble at marches, great days and every man/wummin and their dugs brilliant.

    435. Effijy says:

      The RT News Channel has to operate within the same UK
      Guidelines as Every other channel.

      They have produced some good investigative journalism
      And exposed worrying facts that the UK media refuses
      To look at let alone reveal them.

      Yes the will make Russian sound like a model for other nations to
      Follow and in that, they are exactly like every other broadcaster
      I’ve ever seen.

      Fake news UK collective of all controlled media, USA, North Korea, etc, etc.

      Alex Salmond is given a slot to discuss important matters that he is denied access to.
      In the shows I’ve seen he is in sole control of what he wishes to discuss, he tries to show
      The whole picture, he explains where he sourced his facts and how his opinion is formulated.

      The corrupt UK Elite spent a great deal of time and money to put Alex out of parliament and
      Tried to put him in prison illegally with fabricated allegations about his relationships with female

      I don’t know of any Russian backed scheme that tried to do this to an innocent UK citizen.

      I’m not a Communist and I don’t like anything about the Russian leader
      and I’m of the same opinion of the mafia running Westminster.

      Alex, you take every media opportunity you can get to expose the cabal that runs this country
      And you earn all the money you can as you have lost so much paying for a justice that should
      Come free and easy to all.

    436. Ottomanboi says:

      The raison d’être of the British Council is the promotion of British culture and its values. In my experience of that organization it is essentially Shakespeare, Austin, Dickens, the Tudors and the rest, English language promotion (very important that one), London, Magna Carta and the fantasies of British exceptionalism, thatched cottages and so forth, so quite English in tone. Scots, Welsh and Irish do play their bit parts, of course, down stage and well away from the spotlight.
      As the BC hq is in London, although it has a token regional office in Manchester, and its staffing is consequently considerably more Anglo-Saxon than Celtic the anglocentric character of its rôle is no surprise. The BC along with the BBC’s world services is concerned with the furtherance of English soft power.

    437. Ottomanboi says:

      Re British Council, here is the Dublin born CEO giving it the total spin on ‘identity’.

    438. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Oneliner says: “Tainted Rouble”

      Is it not about time you brain-dead zombies woke the fuck up?

      The CCCP is gone Russia is ruled by corrupt politicians and billionaire criminals (just like the USofA , China is not and never has been Communist it is what it always has been – A Human Bee Hive that serves Emperors and warlords.

      Saddam Hussein, Col Gaddafi, Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and now President Assad and Kim III , have never been or ever will be a threat to you me or your granny.

      Just unwitting shills portrayed as super-villains, fiends and multi-purpose bogie-men, to distract your attention while your pockets were/are being picked.

    439. robbo says:

      Millennium says:
      1 June, 2020 at 1:29 am

      Do you never learn clown.

      It’s better if you remain silent and be thought a fool ,than writing dribble and confirming to all and remove all doubt.

      Engage your brain

    440. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Ayeright says:
      1 June, 2020 at 2:23 am
      Hey Millennium

      Can you show me evidence when any on your list were chasing “down the so called trolls”

      One of your brothers in arms, claims to own a Troll-Hunting machine.

    441. Effijy says:

      Astonished that this No Confidence in Boris Johnson
      Petition is only at 183,000 so far?

      The other petition about MPs taking an extra £10K each for having to work from
      Home is at 260K but they have already pocketed the money.

    442. Liz g says:

      Col Blimp Iv @ 9.38
      Can me and ma sisters get one ?

    443. robbo says:

      I wonder what the figures will be over next week or so?

    444. Julia Gibb says:

      Three easy steps! What are we waiting for?

      We are in a Union so it should be simple in comparison to states formed from part of an existing country. We don’t have to take up arms or have a major period of civil disobedience. All we have to do is express a desire at the polling booth. Stating in 2021 that the Holyrood election is the vote on Independence. Let’s London fight it in court.

    445. Mist001 says:

      Keith Jackson makes a very good point in todays Daily Record when he says:

      “But it is becoming more and more difficult to make sense of how scientists on one side of the border can declare professional contact sport safe to restart, when up here Scotland’s players are still locked in the house.”

      Exactly. Why the discrepancy in ‘scientific advice’?

      Does the virus fucking mutate at the border or something?

      Of course it doesn’t, Mrs. Murrell and the rest are all just making this stuff up as they go along.

    446. Alec Lomax says:

      Keith Jackson of the Daily Ranger Lol.

    447. Dorothy Devine says:

      I don’t suppose it occurs to you that the reverse might be true and Westminster and its occupants might be the ones who are ‘making it up as they go along’
      My Granny used to say ‘ better safe than sorry’ – a sensible woman my Gran and she lived to a ripe old age.

    448. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Mist001 says

      “Does the virus fucking mutate at the border or something”

      No but the sportsmen’s pay packets do.

    449. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Liz g

      I have no idea of the intricacies of the F15 machine, but it may be something similar to this, which I offer “sold as seen”, as I can not vouch for it’s effectiveness against the blighters.

      If all else fails, this stuff may be useful as a back up.

    450. Ottomanboi says:

      Question to pro-independence Scots:
      Do you ever feel British?
      A yes answer would indicate a ‘softie’.
      Suspect that the SNP has many ‘softies’ in its ranks and among its voters.
      It is not the English or EU citizens that are the problem it is ambivalence among the Scottish electorate.
      The SNP has done itself no favours by being rather polite ie soft on the evils of Unionism.
      Lingering sentimental affection or what?

    451. Ron Maclean says:

      @Ottomanboi 11:38am

      ‘Lingering sentimental affection or what?’

      Cowardice and greed?

    452. bipod says:

      Its more likely than not that they are both making it up as they go along.

      When she says the virus could run out of control again she is implying that it was under control in the first place. The truth is she has no scientific evidence to prove that the lockdown had any effect on the spread of the virus (just look at how widely it spread throughout care homes) and that it isn’t just burning out naturally.

      The lockdown and the our incredibly slow release from it has always been and still is driven by panic and fear. Thats why healthy people who have as much chance of being hit and killed by lightning as they do dying from covid are still under house arrest.

      Its also clear from her statements on sky news that she doesn’t recognise or care about the consequences of lockdown, she is still stuck on the lives vs money rhetoric as if it were that simple. I don’t know why I should have expected better though, she is just a regional administrator and doesn’t have to worry about the state of the economy.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      If you want a really good laugh, have a look at the British Council view of human rights. It is the pinnacle of British exceptionalism, IMHO. 😉

    454. James says:

      That letter is fecking dynamite! Brilliant.

      Also, I’ve been of a few AUOB marches, never seen any drunkenness so far. I must admit to have had a few tinctures after though. The Auld Hoose in Perth deserves a shout, big YES banner up behind the bar, mine host’s on the right side!….But I don’t like Strongbow, make mines a double OVD & diet cola, please?

    455. Iain More says:

      And yet the English and cowardly sniveling Yoons will still Vote for the Murderous Tories. Whether they be Blue or Red.

    456. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 1.43

      In a moment of lucidity CBB wrote “I appreciate this paper focuses on the USA, but human nature is pretty much universal.”

      … which is somewhat at odds with his persistent, incessant and bigoted characterisation of the “English”.

      And before the “its the not the English it’s Westminster” brigade jump to his defence, CBB Is always very clear that he is negatively stereotyping English folk, not Westminster.

      So “Brains”, could you link us to a paper that demonstrates the English are excluded from having the same characteristics of “Universal human nature“?

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