Choosing a side
Ed Balls today gave an interview to Sky News in which the would-be Chancellor appeared to explicitly rule out a Labour/SNP coalition for the first time, maintaining that the party is only interested in a majority. Yet the more strenuously Labour insist on a majority, the further from their grasp it slips.
Just over a year ago we ran an article suggesting that the opinion polls masked a much stronger position for the Conservatives than they seemed to show. We noted that when the election came round, it was likely that when UKIP supporters faced the reality of First Past The Post in seats where they had no sensible hope of winning, a significant proportion of them would reluctantly vote Tory instead to secure the EU referendum that is their defining goal.
Now we have some numbers on that.
Polling conducted for the Mirror spinoff Ampp3d has confirmed empirically what most sensible people already knew, despite much talk in the press of how UKIP were taking support from all the main Westminster parties – their would-be voters are in essence hardcore Eurosceptic Tories. By a margin of over 6:1, they’d rather be in government with David Cameron than any arrangement involving Labour.
Our piece from January 2014 speculated that if just half of people who’d really prefer to vote UKIP instead voted tactically for the Conservatives, Labour’s lead would either be drastically reduced or wiped out entirely.
At the time, Labour were ahead by an average of around six points (down from 10 the previous year). Since then, that lead has continued to slide. Were we to apply the same formula to recent polling, the average of the last 10 polls would flip that round to a Conservative lead of 6.15 points.
Indeed, not a single one of the last 25 polls on the front page of UK Polling Report would give Labour a lead were half the UKIP vote to go to the Tories. Whereas a year ago the formula would have produced a mixture of narrow leads for either side, now it’d be one-way traffic, with half the UKIP vote enough to overturn any Labour lead.
As we predicted a couple of months later, Labour’s bare lead has already shrivelled away to nothing, even before you consider any UKIP factor. (And these UK-wide figures take almost no account of Labour’s apparent collapse in Scotland.) The fantasy of a Labour majority is more comprehensively shattered every day.
So given that Labour have absolutely no chance of winning on their own anyway, Scottish voters may feel – and indeed, according to numerous polls DO feel – that Scotland will be best served not by another Feeble Forty MPs doing whatever Ed Miliband tells them and pandering to growing anti-Scottish sentiment south of the border, but by a cohort who won’t back the Tories but will extract concessions for Scotland as the price of their support.
Even then, of course, we know it may not be enough. Scotland regularly returns 58 non-Tory MPs but gets Tory governments anyway. But whoever ends up in Downing Street this May is highly unlikely to be able to command a majority even alongside the Lib Dems and/or UKIP.
So the choice for Scots is whether to elect a bunch of MPs who’ll be able to stand up for Scottish interests whatever the circumstances, or ones whose primary loyalty is to a UK party before their country.
It looks increasingly as though the electorate has already arrived at its answer.
Did Ed Balls by any chance rule out a coalition with the Tories?
It’s not exactly going to make up for the crushing reality of a no vote but watching Labour get annihilated this May will be of *some* entertainment.
Looks like a Tory/Ukip Alliance then. The short term pain of this will be worth the long term gain. Scotland will finally realise that the UK political system is alien to it’s population.
I’m thinking there could be two general elections in a short space of time. A second one may be required to sort out the mess.
Popcorn ready.
Has anyone run the popularity numbers for a Labour/Conservative ‘National Coalition’?
I can see the campaign slogans in England now:
Vote UKIP will get you Miliband.
A vote for UKIP will let the Labour Party in.
And when the two “main” parties manage to gain 55% of the GE vote between them will they expect the 45% to shut up and get back in their box?
I think it is time for the MSM to start exploring LaboTory views on “National” Government and how it is needed to
continue austerityreduce the deficit, end the divisiveness in British politics, rebuild Trident and give firm government in these troubled times.Will they heck!
“A second one may be required to sort out the mess.”
Why would it be likely to deliver any less of a “mess” than the first one?
Concise and insightful analysis, as always Rev.
This is turning out to be the most interesting two years of Scottish politics in living memory.
There is not “a growing anti-Scottish sentiment” south of the border. There is a fear that a strong SNP group of MP’s will not act in the best interests of Scotland in the UK, but will act to further their parties goal of independence despite this being rejected last September.
Luigi – Yes you might be onto something. Possibly a failed last minute desperae coalition with Lab/Tory lasting a few months! Whatever happens the SNP and Scotland are going to move forward after this pile of rotting stench, that is Westminster politics.
Mandelson on twitter last week was telling labour to make a pact with the lib dumbs.
Blue, red, yellow tories what’s the difference. All out to shaft the taxpayer. Bunch of bloody criminals.
But Stuart not all of that 13% UKIP vote in the last poll will go to the Tories. I agree most will but much of it will not. Look in the Euro elections, UKIP had a lot of support among what was called “left behind voters” who were “core” Labour, not well educated, low income, immigrant hating and living in the north of England, East Anglia, Lincolnshire. Are these punters not more likely to go back to Labour?
A second one may be required to sort out the mess.
As I recall there have been 2 years since 1900 where there have been 2 General Elections in a year, 1910 & 1974.
In both cases, the result was almost identical
Last article on the Daily Politics today was a review of two forecasts for the General Election. They discussed the data used and the model developed in both cases.
…Both ignored the polls / byelections etc for Scotland and reduced the numbers for the SNP to around 18.
…Why could the SNP not take more from Labour – “It would be impossible”, “it couldn’t happen” , “the polls defy logic” , “the Labour seats have large majorities” etc etc
A strange science this! when is a poll not a poll?
note: I’m not claiming that the SNP will take more than 18 seats. I am pointing out that a prediction snap shot should be on the basis of current available data and model and not corrected because of guesswork OR more likely a desire to play down facts.
Surely they mean, self-enriching first, labour second and Scottish; somewhere, at the back o the bus.
Yup. Chickens running home for Labour. Tory/Ukip will be a shoe-in but not necessarily with an overall majority. Milliband cannot win especially if the polls up here hold till May and he loses over half his cannon fodder. Wise up Labour waverers. Greece went anti austerity with major uncertainties. Are your Labour lefties stepping up to the mark? Thot not.Also Millipede saying today – “Save the NHS from privatisation with us” – when in the indyref it was denial of said scenario and only being Better Together would save it. Well ye ken noo. Vote SNP to at least have a chance to fight both Tory parties.
SKY is doing the same projection with Labour the biggest party but short of a majority.
Even if the Tories formed a grand alliance with everybody else, except the SNP, they still could not get over the line.
Only Labour with the backing of the SNP could do it. The Libdems are projected at 20 and so could not combine with the Labour to have an overall majority.
If a week in politics is a long time what could 100 days be worth.
No cheering from the back please, there are many twists and turns on this road before the 7th of May.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
27 January, 2015 at 1:57 pm
“A second one may be required to sort out the mess.”
Why would it be likely to deliver any less of a “mess” than the first one?
It could be a “never-FPTP-endum!”
Only the MSM has ever put an SNP/Labour coalition forward as a possibility. The SNP have said they MAY support a minority Labour govt on a vote-by-vote basis, if they agree to scrap Trident renewal. The SNP has never said it will enter a coalition with any Westminster party and, frankly, the thought of the party I am a member of entering a coalition with the sad remains of the Labour party, makes my skin crawl.
I’ve been saying for a while – Labour/Tory coalition looks like a good bet for all sides. The LibDems don’t really want to be in government right now, the Tories don’t want to leave Europe (well, the leadership doesn’t) and Labour need a way to recover some credibility. All sides need to see off UKIP, the SNP and any other “insurgents” that may emerge. With the “radical left” in Greece causing chaos, the economy still in trouble and Britain on the verge of breakdown, “national unity” starts to sound like a great idea.
@Kenny
“national unity” starts to sound like a great idea”
To who exactly? The establishment per chance?
I sincerely wish accelerated entropy on the UK.
@James, let’s not over-simplify things. If you watched Question Time you know there is some utterly toxic anti-Scottish sentiment south of the border. There is also some support for Scottish independence, some lingering concerns about the West Lothian question, and some appetite for slash-and-burn Westminster reform.
But as to the SNP wishing to further their goal of independence “in spite of it being rejected”, what is this strange idea that people shouldn’t continue to argue for their goals? That’s how democracy works. Nicola Sturgeon could not have been more plain that the ONLY route to independence is a majority Yes vote in a referendum which will be demanded by the Scottish people.
That’s a perfectly democratic aspiration. If we had had a referendum on Devo Max (a.k.a Home Rule, a.k.a. Full Fiscal Autonomy) it would have won 90/10 and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Westminster created this ridiculous situation by keeping Devo Max off the ballot (gambling that independence would lose decisively and they could deliver nothing), then shitting the bed when the first 51% poll came in and promising proper Home Rule, as close to federalism as possible etc.
Now it’s completely reasonable for Scotland to ask for what was promised and retain the option of walking away if that promise is broken. Holding that card but ruling out playing it would be naive in the extreme, considering what cards Westminster were prepared to play during the referendum campaign.
Come the revolution, I know who’s first up against the Wa’! (It’s gonny be a big wa’, but ah know a brickie fae Govan…)
Without a war or serious UK wide disaster, there will be no LibLabCon coalition.
For one, their leaders lack the statesmanship to get over their own egos and lust for power.
Secondly, the electorate would rise against this cabal. There would be a political revolution.
At least with the two party system the electorate could kid themselves that they had chosen and lay blame at the opposition or exiting party. A coalition of the major parties would confirm once and for all that they are all ‘Maggie’s children’
O/T
The Grauniad reports The National’s sales have ‘slumped’ to 15,000
link to theguardian.com
Anyone who has stopped buying through inertia or other reasons…. we need this. The National may not be perfect, but if it folds – just imagine the chorus of ‘I told you so’ and the cheers in ScoLab HQ. That should be incentive enough.
@ Kenny
It must have escaped your notice but Greece has been “in chaos” for quite some time already.
“Ed Balls today gave an interview to Sky News in which the would-be Chancellor appeared to explicitly rule out a Labour/SNP coalition for the first time, maintaining that the party is only interested in a majority.”
What else could they be expected to say? Imagine. Eh what?
1. Coalition with these Nationalist Separatists that tried to break our country?
2. They’s be admitting that Scottish Branch Labour were on their knees in Scotland?
3. Knowing that the SNP have already said no to a coalition with them?
4. Knowing that Salmond would make them look increasingly stupid and pathetic in the commons?
5. Realising they might encourage more support for the SNP by leaving the idea of coalition open?
Nah… no chance.
Basically they are further damned if they do.
There are more billionaires in London than any city in the entire world and most of them enjoy non dom status which in effect means they pay no tax, and all at the invitation of past and present Labour and Torie Governments
“London” the biggest tax haven in the world even bigger than Switzerland
Vampire economics from Osborne and Balls suck the life out of everything and then tell you it’s the other ones fault
“Bastirts”…Like Margaret Curran, but with brains
Now isn’t that a scary thought?
@Kinivie
I’d not buy a guard dog if it had no teeth.
[…] Ed Balls today gave an interview to Sky News in which the would-be Chancellor appeared to explicitly rule out a Labour/SNP coalition for the first time, maintaining that the party is only interested in a majority. Yet the more strenuously Labour insist on a majority, the further from their grasp it slips.Just over a year ago we ran an article suggesting that the opinion polls masked a much stronger position for the Conservatives than they seemed to show. We noted that when the election came round, it was likely that when UKIP supporters faced the reality of First Past The Post in seats where they had no sensible hope of winning, a significant proportion of them would reluctantly vote Tory instead to secure the EU referendum that is their defining goal. […]
Scenario 1 – Labour minority government assisted by SNP on vote by vote basis in return for something close to DevoMax and no Trident renewal. That would be progress. However there would be no EU in/out referendum the results of which might offer a good case for IndyRef2.
Scenario 2 – Conservative minority government perhaps with Lib Dem and UKIP support. SNP ignored at WM. EU referendum perhaps. At least we might get IndyRef2, one way or another.
Scenario 3 – National Unity Government with Lab Con. No mandate to rule Scotland as this would effectively by a rUK unity government. Indyref2 might become a constitutional necessity.
All we need to do is send a bus load of SNP MPs South!
Lost earlier post d/t fat fingers and iPhone keyboard ( unless something obviously truncated shows up later!)
So, shorter. To James. Read more btl commentary in UK press on Scottish matters and view QT attitudes- dumping nuclear waste in Scotland = big cheer. Deep fried mars bars, Dundee cake – the usual rubbish.
It’s anti-Scottish amongst the chattering classes, the churnalists, nobody is saying the English are ready to go all Yugoslavia on us. But you shurely can’t have avoided the rhetoric that’s been on display in the meeja since Sept?
As I’ve said before, at SNP seat total in May of 20 is perhaps the most unlikely result. Under FPTP, a minor “surge” is generally contained, so if SLAB does manage a fight back, a SNP haul of 10 (ish) is most likely. However, if the SNP surge is maintained, a much larger seat gain is likely.
Commentators talking about 20 SNP seats post-May are in denial.
Received this today and too good not to share in these ‘interesting times’ Perhaps some of your gifted writers could easily adapt this to the new confusing element – ‘Westminsteratium’ that is likely to germinate post May.
SCIENTISTS DISCOVER NEW ELEMENT
Oxford University researchers have discovered the heaviest element yet known to science. The new element, Governmentium (symbol=Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.
These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called pillocks. Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.
A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.
Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2 to 6 years. It does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.
In fact, Governmentium’s mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes. This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration.
This hypothetical quantity is referred to as a critical morass. When catalysed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium (symbol=Ad), an element that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium, since it has half as many pillocks but twice as many morons.
Enjoy!
Did the poll give them the option of a UKIP/Lab coalition? Of the options presented in the graph surely it’s not surprising that UKIP supporters prefer the only option that involves UKIP.
I’m not defined by any party, but by the type of human being I am. How I treat and relate to others and no little party book of any colour will tell me who I am and how to act.
I am a human being first and foremost, a supporter of personal and collective independence second, a father and a friend, a Scottish citizen and somewhere after that lot comes my politics. There may be a few other important descriptors before I get anywhere near politics in point of fact.
People before party Professor Davies.
P-E-O-P-L-E!
Every day it becomes easier and easier to choose to vote SNP.
Sky news poll of polls 🙂
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
Most pundits concentrate on the number of Lab seats the SNP may take and seem to disregard that they are likely to take at least 9 of the 11 Libdem seats.
What Prof Trevor Davies did not mention in that leaflet is that by a very considerable distance SLAB believe it is Labour first over Scotland. Even then when they use Labour its really merely a code for career, and all the rest of the perks that go with it.
‘Labour first, Scottish second’; so why do they insist on being called Scottish Labour then?
Isn’t that ‘nationalistic’ in itself?
Duplicity abounds esp when ‘patriotism’ (British) = good, ‘nationalism’ (Scottish) = bad.
These people give me the boak.
Scotland sent 41 Labour MPs to Westminster and got a Tory/Lib Dem Coalition in return.
Just keep reminding people of that.
“Why would it be likely to deliver any less of a “mess” than the first one?”
Ed’s head will roll for a start, which could make things go either way on the second go depending on who gets the job.
The question is, are UKIP supporters engaged enough with the implications to vote tactically? I’m not convinced that they are all natural torys as opposed to at least 1/3 historic “I’ve always voted Labour (because I have)” types.
@ Geoff
People like Mr Davies are utter hypocrites, we all identify with something. Clearly for Mr Davies its party politics. He is a Labourite. Perhaps someday he’d like to live in a country called Labourland, who knows, but define himself he has and by a party political ideology which changes by the day from left to right, to further right.
Well fine if that’s his identity we know what to call him. Our identity is a bit broader than a party rule book. Wait for it… we’re not so small minded insular and tribal.
We are Scottish citizens and our church is broad enough to encompass many political ideologies. Typical Labour though, mind closed to any and all else.
@galamcennalath
That pretty much echos my thoughts. A Tory government would be a disaster, but so would a Labour one. SNP influence would help but can’t see Labour English MPs being happy with that and there would be revolts all over the shop.
Tell you what though, no matter who doesn’t win, I’m looking foreword to saying ” you lost, get over it” and suggesting they never mention it again. 😉
Clootie……..
There is not a polling model in existence that can include the disgust factor.
If there was it would show…….wait for it……. A runaway victory for the SNP.
Why these people have their heads in the sand is beyond me.
(for a generation)
@scav – I am not saying they should not fight for their goals, it is just a shame that the one time Scotland votes in enough Scottish Party Only MP’s to actually make a difference in UK politics they seem likely to blow the opportunity by focusing on an independence agenda rather a what’s best for Scotland agenda. If they approach Westminster with the positive and competent approach they have taken in Holyrood they would make a great contribution and help change Westminster for the better, if they don’t their day in the sun will be short lived and if there is a second election it will be the SNP’s vote which will be hit hardest.
is just me being thick or % polls and Pie charts meant to add up to 100% ?
O/T
Kirsten Oswald SNP candidate for East Ren calling Murphy out.
link to snp.org
[…] Choosing a side […]
The Tory-lib-Dem-Labour coalition has worked well so far withs uch open agreement that it wont matter who gets what votes come May, the 3 of them will get round a nice table and come up with an agreement to not rock the boat, just like now. The Leaders might even change to save face but the parties will be in some sort of agreement, I have no doubt. The Machine must be fed.
Move along Jcky…nothing to see here
“You’ll have had your tea,” from Prof Trevor Davies. 🙂
“Scotland didnt vote for nationalism-it voted for the union”
Even that’s a UKOK lie Prof Davies. Scotland voted for THE VOW, devo max and a federal UKOK. What we got was a perfect BBC/UKOK Lord Smith Commision fraud, that went tits up yesterday on Scottish fracking and Slab lying to us again. Like it or not Slab, 7th May will show what Scotland thinks about this giant red and blue Tory con.
If you hold even half your Slab seats in May Prof, then you can tell us to stop this “Scottishness” stuff, like hell we will. Only in Scotland. Imagine any other country in the world tolerating being told their country is now finished, so vote Slab for full control by our red and blue tory neighbour.
Thanks again proud Scot buts.
@Caroline Corfield
I don’t think you should take too much notice of the meeja, on any subject! The English are not generally anti Scottish at all, they may be anti SNP as they see them as seeking to break up the UK, which most of the English don’t want.
Labour were happy to do the Tories dirty work during the referendum, yet now they still expect the people of Scotland to vote for them in May “to kick the Tories out”.
Labour hypocrites. When it comes to the crunch Labour in Scotland will always put Westminster’s wants above Scotland’s needs.
Even if the SNP adds only a handful of new MPs to its total they will still do more for Scotland than Labour has ever done.
Scotland’s best interests can only be best served by returning as many SNP MPs as possible to Westminster.
I am not aware that the SNP has ever proposed a coalition with Labour and I hope they never do enter into a coalition with any of the Tory parties. Perhaps we need the SNP to make a clear statement to that effect to put Balls, Cameron etc. and the general public straight. With regard to The National I think it would be a setback if that was to go under.
Some folk, it would seem have some strange thoughts about the SNP changing Westminster…Not going to happen…you can’t change their system they’re corrupt, but what you can do is make it work to Scotlands advantage and that’s the whole point of voting SNP..
Between now and the election folks we’re going to be inundated with suggestions from mysterious posters we haven’t seen before with ideas like, “maybe we should vote Labour just this time” “maybe give labour one more chance lets not waste our vote” “only asking” Do not be fooled these people are Labour trolls they might even be Murphys bloody crew, don’t give these people an inch
Whether Scotland sends 10,20 or 59 SNP MPs to Wm; whether rUK votes for a Red or Blue Tory govt – I cannot see what difference it will make.
Tories of all colours will always unite in votes to crush rebellious Scots – just look at the Fracking vote, the Trident debate etc.
What hope is there?
kininvie 100% SPOT ON.
I just signed up for 3 months of The National last week. Enjoying it and although there are things that could be better – sports, more ‘topical’ stuff etc. It’s a very decent read.
We need to support this newspaper. It is not perfect, but it is rather good as some hipster’s many know, the Icelandic band Sigur Ros sang ”Þetta er an ágætis brýjun, við gerum betur næst” – “this is an ok start, we´ll do better next”
Not saying folk should buy it if they can´t afford it.
Can you just imagine the gloating from the Unionists, the arsebandits at the Guardian like in that article Kinni posted up.
I´ve noticed it getting better too. Their ‘profile’ section is excellent – yesterday was Saudi Arabia, the day before Syrzia. Very interesting and their world section of news is getting better all the time.
Give it time folks.
Sorry this hugely off topic, and sounds like I’m Richard Walker’s son trying to flog it, but we have to support it by whichever way you can.
In the words of Helen Lovejoy “Just think of the children )the other side” and the ´´We told you so. Scotland doesn´t like nationalists´´ etc boasting.
I believe the vast majority of people in England think, wrongly, that Scotland is subsidized by England. Most Scottish unionists agree with them, or at least refuse to put forward Scotland’s case. Sending unionist politicians from Scotland to Westminster in May will only exacerbate the falsehoods held by the vast majority of people in England.
There is, of course, a pitfall trap set up for the SNP in this. If they send a truckload of MPs to Westminster in May, but no deal is secured and we end up with another GE later in the year, the MSM will paint them as impotent. This is probably Murphy’s medium-term strategy.
Haven’t seen any mention of today’s Daily Record front page about the two saltire lassies in George Square on the 19th of Sept who seemingly were arrested for having their saltire ripped from their grasp by the unionist thugs that turned up and amazingly then spent 11 hours in the cells, charged and it is only now they have been told the charges have been dropped. I’m usually all over social media but I never knew any of this or about the petition that had 10,000 signatures.
Is anyone able to do an archive link to the Record today?
@ SqueuedPerspextive
There’s always hope. Look how far the independence movement has progressed over the last few years.
One thing’s for sure: if we give up, the unionists will destroy Scotland and its people. Keep hope alive. Keep voting SNP.
i wonder if ed balls cleared today’s edict with sunny jim?
Forgot to mention, Devo Max, Devo lite, Devo sh..e, Home rule, Near federalism, Their promises of anything are’nt worth the Sh..e that comes out of their mouths, how many times, Dear God! These Bastirts lie for their lives it’s their reason to exist,to rule the Sweatys, the Paddys, and the Taffys and pass the caviar dont you know. Remember folks “We love Scotland we went there once to shoot something, Peasants or something eh Henry What… Mwha ha ha”
The infrastructure bill yesterday is totally unrelated to the myth commission. The powers relating to fracking will be devolved in about 18 mths. It seems people think we have lost this power for ever, we haven`t. But in the time before we do get these powers the country will be fracked to f*ck.
This is why the moratorium was so important. murphy and his pals have set in motion a fracking rush like the gold rushes of the wild west and this country will be ravaged by quick buck, better together prospectors
For the avoidance of doubt, I voted Yes and will do anything to see Scotland independent.
You knew a BUT was coming:
I didnt believe the referendum would have resulted in a victorious Yes, I could see what was happening. As an ex forces type I can assure you the Brutish Establishment won’t allow Scotland to leave this rancid union.
The quicker we get over that the better. I look forward to the UDI as an end game.
Well said, Dr Jim. These “softly-softly” unionist posters are on the increase. They are easy to spot though. Imagine, if you can stomach it, Morphy Murphy reading their posts out-loud and their odiousness soon becomes apparent.
@ Tamson.
“the MSM will paint them [the SNP] as impotent.”
It does that already. If there is a second quick election I have no doubt the SNP will be blamed by The English media, which will work to the SNP’s advantage.
Prof Davies appears to be one of those Fabian Peter Pan dreamers. His field, in the faculty of ‘Social and Political Sciences’ at Glasgow Uni, is ‘Urban Studies’. Yeah, right. You can bet that his academic work is based on his politics, rather than his politics being based on conclusions from his academic work.
In the latter part of the 19th century, his Fabian Society was denouncing the calls for Irish self-government, just as Davies does now wrt Scotland. It doesn’t fit into the plan for the perfect world-wide revolution which will one day usher in the perfect human society. But at least that’s a nice dream, founded on philanthropy. How he manages to reconcile it with the venal self-interest of the careerists who comprise the Labour Party requires some explanation.
Iain’s post is not an argument, just a series of sneers and insults. To refute a reasoned case, one has to do rather more than just call it names.
@kininvie says:
“The Grauniad reports The National’s sales have ‘slumped’ to 15,000
link to theguardian.com
Anyone who has stopped buying through inertia or other reasons…. we need this. The National may not be perfect, but if it folds – just imagine the chorus of ‘I told you so’ and the cheers in ScoLab HQ. That should be incentive enough.”
They could increase sales by replacing their pro-independence tagline with something more general like ‘Standing up for Scotland’.
Everyone knows they support independence by now.
People don’t want to feel like they are just buying a party political news-letter, and there is no point just preaching to the converted.
Add a TV-page and make it a bit more tabloidy with more sports, entertainment and opinion.
More ads should pad it out and make it feel like you are getting more for your money.
That said it has vastly improved recently, and now has staples !!
Will
I have absolutely no issue with Labour dropping Scottish from their name and identity or with Prof Davies desire to so do. Indeed, it would be a more honest statement of their position and intent.
I am not going to hold my breath though.
Bill it might come to that! As there will be no alternative if they try and hold us undemocratically.
Prof Trevor Davies set his tent in the establishment’s garden some time ago.
When he was a TV producer I recall his ‘fearless’ speech to assembled TV types from all over the UK – mostly London because that’s where they live and work, mostly – a speech given to a pact house at a national conference.
It began, ‘Do you realise how insulting it is to buy a diary in Scotland only to find it has a map of the London underground in it, and nothing else?’
He appears to have lost all rebellious spirit in return for writing piss-poor prose against the SNP, unless that one sharp observation was the summation of his resistance to English colonialism.
Then we’re all just imagining the countless politicians, pundits, journalists, celebrities and stars still tarring Scots with the whinging subsidy junkies brush?
There’s a fear that a group of democratically elected MPs will carry out their parties’ goals – goals in their manifesto, for which they were elected? Geeze, no wonder Westminster’s scared!
This would only “make a difference” if we could somehow get our elected New Labour MPs to vote in our interests. Since they either don’t turn up to vote or actually vote against the public’s wishes, they are less than useless. We really are losing literally nothing worth saving with that shower.
That those who really thought that change was possible in the UK will wake up, one way or another.
Yep, you can ignore the meeja, but you can’t ignore their current influence, well you can but that’s a bit stupid.
The English on the whole believe the meeja a bit more, maybe if they’d had a referendum recently they’d be more media savvy, however many, I’m sure a poll must have been done on this recently, do believe they, as a nation, subsidise Scotland in particular and the rest of the ‘family’ in general. They are upset ( and I know this because some of them have been telling me this) at the idea that their subsidy is being used to sustain a welfare package in Scotland, something that isn’t being done in England. They ( and were this to be the truth of the matter, quite rightly) feel this to be unfair. That feeling of unfairness is then played upon by Labour, Conservatives and UKIP in particular.
The Scots have become the same as immigrants and those on benefits – the cause of everything that is going wrong in England. Yet the desire to hang onto us, is also justified ( and this has also been said to me) as worth it because “if you went independent and failed we’d have to pick up the pieces”.
For the record, I have recent English ancestry and live in England.
The 50th edition of The National is next week , today`s edition is 43. Go out of your way and buy it and give it a boost for its 50th. Next Thursday if i`ve worked it out right.
Onwards
I agree, I think the mix of news coverage and the international section has really improved.
I really enjoy the National. It is quite broadsheety though and it does lack all the frills of home and garden, motoring, TV and all the usual bits and bobs which I think probably make people feel it is a bit too intense and densely worded (which I don’t mind). They will have to expand the scope of the paper for it to really embed long term and broaden its appeal.
I do like Gregg Moodies Monday cartoon though 🙂
Can any of our readers explain why it is perfectly acceptable for Scotland to get a Tory/UKIP coalition despite the real possibility of that having not a single MP from Scotland but unacceptable to the rUK to have a Labour/SNP coalition?
Dr Jim says:
27 January, 2015 at 4:09 pm
Between now and the election folks we’re going to be inundated with suggestions from mysterious posters we haven’t seen before with ideas like, “maybe we should vote Labour just this time” “maybe give labour one more chance lets not waste our vote” “only asking”..
I think it has already started, Jim.
Ed Balls statement today is simply the latest ploy to get labour votes in Scotland.
Bit like the no currency tactic..coz it worked !!!
Idiots.
To all Unionist trolls, we know who you are when you post and you will not win this time, so, see your reasoned case, your difinitive argument, your, but logically, WELL, See Your Arse,
Get it, Got it, GOOD…
Sky news poll of polls: Please watch
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
Worth bigging-up this summary from SkyNews (link courtesy StevieMcB) since it provides the clearest example that the desired outcome is readily possible and indeed likely – AND DEMONSTRATES THE COSMIC STUPIDITY OF THE “VOTE SNP GET CAMERON” TROPE. IMPORTANT TO SQUASH THAT CANARD. This ditty from Sky is just the right sound-bite size for easy consumption.
SNP couldn’t buy/produce a better exposition than this nor match it credibility.
I commented recently that the National was too staid for the for the average reader who we needed to come over from the Record. We had the curious buying the paper hoping to help the cause but it does not have an easy crossword or much frivolity in it.It is good journalism if you are part of the intelligentsia but we are looking for a paper for joe blogs whose vote is equally valuable.
It is doubtful if the National can restore its readership and sadly I think it may fold in the month prior to the election.
I do write fom bitter experience.
HARRY MCAYE
archive.today/hDA9I
Well, taking into account Labour’s collapse in Scotland, it still contributes to the overall UK polling figures, so if we take it at about 24%, with labour at 32% to 36% in the UK as a whole, and remove the Scottish 8-10% population portion, that’s near 1% extra for Labour in the rest of the UK. Which could be significant in preventing an overall Conservative majority.
The point is this: if the SNP are a clear third and have romped home in Scotland, but the two main parties (Lab mainly I mean here) refuse to deal with them in any kind, then it should be as plain as the nose on anyone’s face that the Westminster parties mean to disregard Scotland and what it wants. What do you suppose happens from there? I know what I would be looking for the SNP to be proposing come 2016 Holyrood in the scenario.
“Labour first, Scottish second”
Sums up many in the North British branch office Labour on so many levels.
Most Scots of all persuasions, surveys show repeatedly, say their nationality Is Scottish. It says who you are, what culture you associate with, it’s an identity, allegiance, where you belong in the world, describes your roots … It IS important!
Here we have someone who feels their affiliation to a political party trumphs that. And, they are probably not unique in thinking like that.
Therein lies inevitable betrayal.
G H Graham says:
27 January, 2015 at 5:06 pm
Can any of our readers explain why it is perfectly acceptable for Scotland to get a Tory/UKIP coalition despite the real possibility of that having not a single MP from Scotland but unacceptable to the rUK to have a Labour/SNP coalition?
“Scottish nurses wagging the English dog, that’s completely out of touch” sayeth future teamGB Chancellor of the Exchequer Ed Balls on possible SNP/Lab coalition. Where do things idiots spring from and is it any wonder teamGB is bankrupt? No wonder Crash and the Flipper have scarpered, to get UKOK rich.
jaygee
I buy The National and no way would I call myself part of the “intelligentsia”. I enjoy The National for many of the reasons that others want it to change. I don`t care for page upon page on tv programmes, celebrities and gossip. I also like a hard crossword.
After all it is a newspaper in the true sense, it reports the news.
GE15 will be ‘The Hope Referendum’ for rUK.
When the sharks feed, the shoal suffers.
The underlying question in GE15 for Hope to revive, is how is political power to be transferred from the Hope killers- the ‘sharks’, to the Hope makers – the ‘shoal’.
?
Voter sympathy with anti-austerity, anti neo-Liberalism, in Greece and Spain, offer a possible clue as to which direction the European electoral mass of voters from every EU country, the ‘shoal’, will take.
It is well known that ‘desperate times call for desperate measures’, and these have been reached by the people of Greece, if not of Spain, yet, and certainly not in the UK.
Just not enough suffering among the UK middle classes, yet.
Internal polling in the UK is therefore being looked at by the MSM in an insular way, it seems, and guided only by the past, with little interest, or even recognition, in the ‘shoal’ factor.
And yet we are part of The European Union.
The point is that traditional politics in the UK is changing – and fast. ‘Greed is good’ has become ‘Greed is bad’.
Neo-Liberalism, heralded in with the Thatcher era and the new emblem of the Establishment, which has become simply ‘the-get-rich-quick’ brigade, was bound to provoke a reaction from the ‘shoal’, since it was the main target of the predations of the encircling sharks, the neo-Liberals.
The crushing, humiliating, soul destroying kind of austerity seen in Greece, is simply the most extreme, and clearly, the nearest to a political electoral reaction.
Skipping quickly to the UK, austerity has yet to emaciate the middle classes here , as in Greece, but enough misery has been endured, surely, for the ‘shoal’ in the UK to see what’s coming, as the even greater austerity promised by the biting Mr Osborne is applied – and to cry ‘enough’.
The fact is, austerity doesn’t work, except for a tiny few. When the wealthy, in a forty-year fit of insatiable greed, take ever more from the taxpayer, and impose austerity as the means of ensuring that the sharks always have their fill, then the ending of such an unsustainable regime is urgent.
It must be the hope of the UK poor, and it is this element, the end of an age, which will be a key influence in GE15. It is this ‘shoal’ aspect that is being ignored by the media, who have yet to understand that the great rip-off of the Taxpayer is about to end.
This is what makes GE15 ‘The Hope Referendum’.
Two invisible questions on the ballot paper –
Do you want hope
Do you want to kill hope
Here’s a clue – there’s NO hope with Con-Lab-LibDem.
So, with 100 days before GE15, what does it matter which combinations and permutations are possible in May. These point only to who will be in power. The real question is how is the power to be transferred from the ‘sharks’ to the ‘shoal’ ?
In Scotland the answer is just so easy – vote SNP, support the shoal – get rid of the Labour sharks.
In rUK, not so easy. The only guidance being given the electorate is as to which shark to vote for – Con-Lab-LibDem.
The only party in England with any hope of returning power to the people, is the Greens – and from outwith England, the SNP and Plaid.
The media are not interested – how could they be since they swim with the sharks.
If there is to be a political change in rUK, consistent with the sentiment in Europe, then the rUK electorate will have to do what the Greeks did, and turn their back on traditional voting for the Establishment (here its at Westminster), and to vote instead for REAL CHANGE by electing the parties of the Left, the Greens, SNP and Plaid into power or at least power sharing.
Will they do it – or are there not yet enough who are suffering enough?
And will it take that bit longer, as with so much, before offshore UK catches the beat from mainland Europe and starts swimming with the ‘shoal’.
Rest assured of this – In 100 days,
we will have ‘The Hope Referendum’.
Hope will revive in the UK or Hope will die.
Every vote counts.
G H Graham: “Can any of our readers explain why it is perfectly acceptable for Scotland to get a Tory/UKIP coalition despite the real possibility of that having not a single MP from Scotland but unacceptable to the rUK to have a Labour/SNP coalition?”
Sure Graham, it’s racial discrimination.
The EVEL bandwagon (absent concomitant constitutional settlement) and the expressed horror that the SNP and or “a small region” – “a small percentage”, i.e. the jocks, might gain a bit of power, is an attempt to establish apartheid within the UK body politic.
Although the talk is of denying the SNP, the truth is that an SNP parliamentary majority (of Scottish seats) would first and foremost be the embodiment the will of the people of Scotland. To conspire to exclude that cohort of MPs from influence in the UK legislative process BECAUSE they are the embodiment of the will of our people, is to conspire to cleanse the UK body politic of its largest ethnic minority.
No matter which way you cut it, this action is routed in the belief that Scots are “other” and indeed, “lesser”, not legitimate partners worthy of equal rights.
This is no less than a move to codify and legalise discrimination. To repeat it is an attempt to establish racial apartheid.
It’s time we started seeing this for what it is – and time to confront it.
O/T
SNP local members select more candidates for Westminster.
Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock – Corri Wilson
Edinburgh East – Tommy Sheppard
Edinburgh South – Neil Hay
East Dunbartonshire – John Nicolson
@caroline corfield
Yes i agree that con, lab and ukip parties are playing on the “scottish subsidy” point and trying to whip up resentment which is a fundamentally short term and stupid thing for unionist parties to do. The Tories Salmond and Miliband No 10 add last week was particularly stupid. Unfortunataly Cameron is so drunk on being in power that he is trying anything to stay put.
I think this is all short term puff though, English people generally want to be in the UK and see Scots as their countrymen. They also expect to “subsidise” Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland as they have suffered most from the deindustrialisation of the last 30 years.
Labour are just a disgrace, they say anything to the gullible
Are extremely petty, re SNP coalition, which is really nothing
more than a desperate attempt to save what is left if
the Scottish Labour vote. Its a desperate measure
by Balls to stall the swing to SNP. Hopefully
people will see through this nasty Balls scoundrel.
Re The National,I had stopped buying newspapers several years ago.I am finding it hard to get back into the habit of buying one.I try to remember,but often forget.
O/T
Ian Hamilton QC – The General Election 2015 Series
Ian shares his thoughts about Jim Murphy. “the baw’s on the slates”. according to Ian.
link to youtube.com
If Labour and the Conservatives got into bed together to exclude representatives of the Scottish electorate from representing their interests at UK level, it would be the biggest mistake they’ll ever make. Politics across the UK would implode. Much of their own traditional vote would balk massively at the idea of such a coalition.
Imagine especially supporters of the already marginalised left in England being told their vote was effectively for a Tory lite and I can’t believe its not Tory govt. Oh and by the way its to prevent those bolshie SNP types from holding any sway in our mother of wossinames. Great googly moogly they’ve put up with a lot from Labour and its rightward march already. Such a coalition would surely be the final straw for them.
Lab/Con surely wouldn’t be that stupid would they? 😮
Re. Prof. Trevor Davies. Apparently he doesn’t do irony. He really doesn’t understand what ‘Better Together’ represented. ;(
Let us say we will dismantle and block the power of those remote elites who govern our lives – in banks and broadcasters, boards and bureaucracies.
link to labourhame.com
The Guardian’s sales in Scotland 11,000
Hmm. Not that I am from there, but I think the north of England has been particularly badly walloped by deindustrialisation too.
Macart says:
“Much of their own traditional vote would balk massively at the idea of such a coalition….. Lab/Con surely wouldn’t be that stupid would they? ”
Indeed. From a Scottish perspective, many (most?) of us now see Lab/Con as Red/Blue Tories. Down south they may still differentiate.
It really doesn’t look like either Lab or Con will win outright. UKIP will be a wet squib. LibDems are dead.
IF the SNP do well, they won’t work with Con. They might work with Lab.
While English voters might not like the idea of a Lab Con coalition, this has to be balanced against … would they like a Lab government being strongly influenced by the SNP?
Which is worse for Middle England?
Certainly the Con & UKIP types would be furious at SNP meddling in ‘their affairs’ in ‘their parliament’.
The London media has gone to such lengths to demonize the SNP, feelings may run high.
Interesting times ahead!
Another insightful and instructive article.
The contradictory contortions of Lab/Con and their media acolytes won’t be as effective(I hope) in this propaganda campaign.
I look forward to seeing unionist parties disown Scotland and how it goes down with the Scottish electorate.
What would we have done for intrigue if we had left the poxy union.
@kininvie – I mentioned that Guardian report on the previous thread but also said I tried 4 shops yesterday and none of them had any nationals for sale.
Today I got the last one after trying 3 shops.
So I’m not sure what to make of that.
I remain of the opinion that maintaining the Union is the Establishments’ priority.
All their plans will be aligned on that.
There is no evidence to support anything to the contrary.
Had a smile this morn when the poll of polls(is that an award) on sky predicted 53 seats for the SNP. I dont think even in their wildest dreams the SNP would think that could be acheived.
Methinks the figure is deliberately high so winning 30-40 seats would be seen as a failure. If 53 SNP people were elected to wasteminster, surely thats a claim for Independence right there.
O/t about the National
Aldi in Glenrothes won’t be selling it. I’ve asked, I’ve e mailed their headquarters. Sorry! They don’t have room!
Morrisons in Glenrothes never has it. I’m told they sell it, but I’ve been going in this week and there is NO space for it.
That’s only two shops in Glenrothes, but what if there is a decision NOT to sell it? Things look a bit fishy to me.
The National does seem to be no longer available in a number of outlets compared with a fortnight ago. What is going on?
Anybody any idea why the English feel it’s so important to be ENGLISH but the SCOTS are ignorant and parochial if they say they are SCOTS and live in Scotland? What the hell are the French, Germans etc. where do they live?
I AM SCOTTISH BORN AND BREAD AND PROUD OF IT. I AM NOT BRITISH I LIVE ON PART OF THE ISLAND OF BRITAIN CALLED SCOTLAND. A country!
To the English establishment FO and let my people go!
So the widden Chair of Nth & Leith CLP Prof Davies wants the Labourites to think themselves Labour 1st & define themselves as Scottish in the 2nd instance .
Oh ah that doesent chime with the Labours Accounting Units branch manager The Patriot DimJim Morph intae any thing people want,even shoogly pegs.
@Manandboy 7.13pm
I can only agree, sure they might look and talk like they are govt and opposition but they each want to make sure all the power is in wm when it’s there turn in the driving seat. Remember what the treasury guy MacPherson said -anything to protect the fabric of the state.
@Marcia
Good news that Tommy Sheppard won to stand in Edinburgh East. He should have a good chance, as I think he will be a very good candidate.
The folk who baulked most at the idea of subsidising the Scottish welfare policy were both from the North East of England, one still lives here. Interestingly they’re both civil servants, one works for the ‘ministry’ as it’s known ( HMRC) around here, and the other has recently retired from the MOD ‘dine scythe’.
They are archetypical middle England, despite where they’re from, and that is the thing many commentators miss, they think it’s all a SE thing, when in many cases it’s further confused by class ( financial rather than cultural mostly), and while it’s not all flat caps here either, many of those who would traditionally vote Labour are coming away with things that sound a lot like UKIP policies.
There was a lot of de-industrialisation in the NE, mostly during Thatcher’s tenure, but while the whole Ravenscraig complex went in Scotland, Tata bought lots of the steel making in the NE, Cleveland Bridge nearly went under because of the new Wembley stadium but manage to pull through ( those rascally Australian main contractors), Hebbun dry dock still operates, and Swan Hunter lasted a wee while before going under, without the benefit of MOD orders ( a bit of a double edged sword if you ask me).
(I lived in Clydebank when I was growing up, it had Singers, Browns and Goodyear as massive employers, all went within a short space of time.)
There’s still is, as there is in Scotland, heavy industry going on here, and the myriad of cinema/shopping complexes that pop up in places where it isn’t. But the level of under investment in Scotland is historical, and not always down to government decisions (Browns built the QEII using outdated equipment for example). Yet the continued under investment until devolution, brought it lower than the NE. I can’t believe what places that should be doing ok, like Paisley, Stirling and Peebles look like, especially when I compare them with places like Hexham, Morpeth and Darlington.
That’s not to say those places don’t have deprivation, but it is to say they look a damn sight healthier and prosperous.
The National crossword difficult? Yesk!
We must think alike. I agree with most of your posts.
Hell will freeze over before they allow us another sniff of independence.
And they DID stitch the last one up!
Ha Ha Ha Ha Eastenders luv in with wall to wall Tartan Weddings,will they wake up and smell the coffee,it did,nt work the 1st time PMSL.
The “establishment” can obstruct / disrupt / impact outlets for sale of the National. However they cannot do anything about online sales. Why not take out a subscription and ensure this effort is supported.
You can access from your PC/laptop / ipad or phone (good eyesight required for the latter). It is usually in the inbox by 4am
@ manandboy!
Has it been confirmed by the National that they are only selling ~15/20.000 copies? Just because the Guardian says so doesn’t make me really believe it. Didn’t read it – not archived.
If what I’m reading here about difficulties obtaining a copy are true, is there some kind of “quiet arrangement” in the background to starve the National out of the way?
To rob indy supporters of their only believable newspaper and close the path of access to a wider public in general.
Unionists don’t like it when the truth is daily available in writing and screws up the beeb/msm brainwashing.
We’ve got the internet sown up… 🙂
Re the dropping of charges against the saltire sisters, I couldn’t believe it when I saw the Daily Record’s front page today:
link to archive.today
Here’s another article linked to the change.org petition:
link to commonspace.scot
Still no sign of an apology though.
Let’s spread the word and encourage everyone to buy The National as apart from Wings it is the only way punters can get news that is not filtered through the unionist prism.
Derek Bateman well worth a read on Murphy’s role in Blair’s secret deal in the desert to release Megrahi.
Congrats to all the newly elected pro Indy candidates and let voters know of recent Labour support for Tory austerity plans to cut Scottish government budget over the next five years but prepared to waste £100 billion on Trident renewal and opposed moratorium on fracking and opposed devolving fracking licencing in Scotland to our Parliament.
Re the National, I like it and buy it, but my wife says it is for political anoraks, and needs to lighten up a bit. Could be right.
james
They also expect to “subsidise” Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland as they have suffered most from the deindustrialisation of the last 30 years.
I don’t mean to be rude to new posters, but that is just wrong.
STV Scotland Tonight will be discussing the latest opinion polls.
don’t want to generalise but last time I was in Glasgow Central, and couple of Tescos including a tesco service station, no NATIONAL.
galamcennalath
Interesting times indeed. I don’t see a lab con coalition as particularly unlikely – package it as a government of national unity and down south it would be accepted. Up here we’d be on the Indy autobahn.
The SNP have to be receptive to forming part of a government to allow a breakthrough otherwise it would be 2010 all over again. I don’t expect it to happen due to labour’s visceral hatred of the SNP. I wouldn’t want to join forces with labour anyway – poisonous bleeders who have betrayed us all again and again and again.
None of the Westminster parties are fit for office – a period of chaos following a hung parliament and with no deal being made, perhaps a lab con interim government and second inconclusive GE and finally the uncertainty and risk involved in Indy may no longer seem like such a step in the dark for No-voters, paticularly when the SNP are getting on with the job.
The SNP need to remain a professional, disciplined party of government and be ready and willing to enable a functioning UK government even if labour are too tribal to countenance it. Steady as she goes.
Re: The National
My local corner shop in Musselburgh stocks it but the owner says he’s only selling a few copies daily now despite the huge demand in the first few weeks.
I always leave mine somewhere for others to pick up after I’ve read it, even if it’s a couple of days later.
Bought The National today – had to go searching, some local stores don’t stock it, or stock enough.
Proof, if it were needed for Wings readers, that there is no such thing as Scottish Labour. Here is Dougie Alexander and crew with a Vote Labour carrier bag.
link to archive.today
No reference to the Scottish Branch then. Who is financing this campaign, London Labour?
@ Fireproofjim
Yesterday’s National crossword had allicomgreenyle as an answer – you cannot get lighter than that.
@ galamcennalath
That whole demonisation narrative run by HMG through their fav propaganda wing was always going to carry enormous risk for governance. A two edged sword if you will. Had it worked to the degree they hoped, then they would have crushed a fledgling democratic movement. People would have gone back to sleep on their feet and business would carry on as usual.
On the contra though, in backfiring it has created a large popular movement for discontinuing the union, utterly alienated a sizeable proportion of Scotland’s population, whilst awakening in them a new found interest in their politics and achieving a more socially just and democratic model of government. Its also fanned stupid levels of discontent in UK society in general.
Their othering of the independence voter and encouraging of the green eyed monster in their electorate, who remain woefully ignorant of the motivations of the YES movement, civic nationalism and Scottish politics in general, is also fanning an uncomfortable interest in decentralised, regional politics in England. Say it softly… federalism. Not to mention more than a little popularised dislike of those Scots who apparently just take, take, take, take, take, take, take, take.
The idiots’ cunning referendum strategy is essentially destabilising the cohesion of their own governance and society. In other words, they went too far. How they convince Scots to stay whilst effectively denying them UK representation should be an interesting education in twisty, spinny, contortions. How they convince their own electorate they might actually need us may be even more impressive.
Interesting right enough.
More on The National can wingers check whether it is available in all our libraries and pressure your local pro Indy councillor to ensure that every local authority libray and building includes it on their newspaper or periodical subscription
Not a natural newspaper reader and would rather support the paper financially.
Availability and stocking seem to have some strange undercurrents…worth looking into.
Does your local library display The National?
Do all pro Indy Councillors check on this on a regular basis.
I subscribe to digital version and buy print copy which I leave in Metro pile on bus to work.
According to Pat Doherty and Glen Gibbon, the British labour party would prefer to govern with Sinn FeiN at westminster, rather than the SNP…feel the love and respect in the Greatest and Most Successful Union in the History of the Universe bla, bla… : blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/hung-parliament-predictions-harden-coalition-recedes/30051
I hope the story about the declining circulation is incorrect.
It is available in our local M&S, Co-op and Sainsbury’s as well as our local newsagents. I have not been aware of more being left on the shelf compared to a few weeks ago.
I like it but I can see why it might not be popular with some people who may be more used to shorter articles rather than the longer articles in large blocks of print which tends to require greater effort to get through. But I like the detail.
And I’ve finally cracked the crossword!
FAO
The Noble Graeme Doig.
Good post about Murphy avoiding telling his constituents whether he is standing for the 2015 GE.
And while they are at it, they should ask him why he is NEVER at Westminster representing them, yet still picks up the wages and expenses.
As a still-working-part-time specialist journalist, I only ever actually buy a hard copy of a newspaper if I have something in it and need the cutting, otherwise, I read the papers on-line.
I occasionally have to trek around three or four shops to get a Scotsman. Apparently, this is partly due to the distribution practices of the wholesaler, generally Menzies as I understand it.
I am told, if they put ten copies of a particular publication into a shop and, over the week, they get four unsold copies back each day, the following week, that shop only gets six copies. Two of them returned daily, the allocation is cut to four, and so on.
There may be an element of this in the difficulty in sourcing copies.
Re. The National,
While visiting the local hospital, I thought I would buy the National. Couldn’t find any, then after a bit of digging about, I found a dozen lying underneath a pile of Daily Mail’s.
If you come across somewhere that looks as if it has none, then just have a quick look underneath the rest of the papers. You never know. Unionists will try anything to deprive us of the printed word.
The tories or labour have no choice but to pretend another election would be on the cards if they fail to get a majority. (as looks increasingly inevitable) That has always been the tactic and threat that larger parties use to try and strongarm and bully the smaller parties who would hold the balance of power.
Trouble is it won’t work because it relies on the smaller parties being unable to have the resources and activists to run another GE campaign.
The fact is it’s the tories, lib dems and labour who are struggling to get their activists out and have mounting party debt due to a lack of funds. Labour are finding out the hard way that if they behave like a bunch of tories then they can wave goodbye to a huge chunk of the union funding they rely on so heavily. While the city spivs and dodgy financiers who regularly pour money into the tories can just as easily do so to the kippers should they be inclined. They also remember how easily dodgy deals were exposed the last time with tory treasurer after tory treasurer having to quit in disgrace as the scandals kept mounting.
It’s also the smaller parties who are growing their activist base in the face of the obvious unpopularity of the westminster parties.
So threats of another election are not to be taken seriously when it’s abundantly clear that Cameron, Clegg, Miliband and their parties are nowhere near popular enough to risk it. Nor do they have sufficient finances or committed activists to mount an effective election campaign not long after a previous one even if they wanted to.
Going ‘off-topic’ here.
A ‘Wings Over Scotland’ get-together is taking place on the 21st February, at the Invergowrie Inn, just to the west of Dundee.
It’s all being arranged in the ‘off-topic’ page (link below).
The Edinburgh Wingers are looking for somebody to arrange a minibus, to pick up in Dunfermline, or thereabouts, on the way north.
The Glasgow and ‘westcoater’ crowd seem to be still asleep to this social extravaganza taking place less than two hours from their area of comfort, so who’s gonna pick up the minibus baton from Glasgow?
If Dundee can put on a 47-seater busload for ‘Hope Over Fear” (12th October) in George Square, can Glasgow and Edinburgh not reciprocate for ‘Wings Over Scotland 7’ at the Invergowrie Inn?
Onnyhoo, our last get-together in Invergowrie was a social success, so even if the Glasgow and Edinburgh Wingers are reticent, we’ll have another good night.
If you want to know what’s going on, go to the link below, and read my post, and the other Invergowrie posts over the past day or three.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Apologies for going ‘off-topic’.
BILL,
“As an ex forces type I can assure you the Brutish Establishment won’t allow Scotland to leave this rancid union.”
I agree with that.
Do you believe the result was riggged?
Would have loved to go to Invergowrie, but have a family event that night. I will wear my silver wings in support.
O/T
A public discussion with Q&A was held in Easterbrook Hall, Dumfries, as part of the 2015 Scottish Government Cabinet tour.
Fracking discussed around 43mins …
link to youtube.com
Still getting the National, but it does need to lighten up or at least get some columnists (beyond C Leckie) who have something approaching a bit of fire, bluntness and brazenness in the way they write. It’s too ‘one-note’ a lot of the time. I’m still buying, so that’s not a recommendation for how to sell to me but the less (as one person put it above) ‘anoraky’.
Liz says
“Today I got the last one after trying 3 shops.
So I’m not sure what to make of that.”
I tried to get the National in Asda’s last week and couldn’t get it, day before that I couldn’t get it in Tesco’s
I think the Herald group are choking off the sales by delivering fewer (if any) to supermarkets, they’re killing their own child,
INFANTICIDE!
I cannot understand why it is news that Balls is talking down any deal with the SNP.
1/ if he does endorse an alliance of any sort it will be an admission that ScotLab are scuppered
2/ middle England would never tolerate us insular jocks having any real influence.
@ Caz-m
I thought I would buy the National. Couldn’t find any, then after a bit of digging about, I found a dozen lying underneath a pile of Daily Mail’s.
Yep, had that on several occasions where I live. When you ask the shopkeeper if they have any, they seem a bit bemused at how their Nationals have managed to crawl under the Daily Mail, the Record or whatever other pile of Unionist rags.
Probably some local Labour cooncillor doing his bit for the cause.
Saw copies of the National in the 24 hr Tesco in Carlisle around 4am today.
The Tories have toyed with the idea of forming a partnership with the DUP with whom you might think they would be ideologically suited. Lord Trimble seems more open, however, and would welcome a deal with Labour as they are “the party of spending”. Meanwhile, and unbeknownst to Trimble, Labour have approached Sinn Feinn, asking them to abandon their policy of not taking up their Westminster seats with a view to a Labour/Sinn Feinn coalition. Apparently Ed seems unaware that there has been a ‘bit of a disagreement’ between the unionists and Sinn Feinn. When DUP get a sniff of this they’ll be lining up to sign on with a Tory deal. Not only that but Ed could well find that those few Labour voters left may in fact be put off by this. Many could describe themselves as unionists and loyalists and be unlikely to side with Sinn Feinn. I saw this on the early evening ITV News. You could not make this stuff up. 100 days to go and I can smell their desperation already…
BILL
Well said, from my own perspective,
A) am over it
b) looking forward to the divorce papers being served 🙂
Not completely OT. How’s about a political nerd joke?
Isn’t Gramsci’s first comment roughly what the Fabian Society has been saying British Labour needs to do to re-connect in Scotland?
link to pinterest.com
re the National, I have had to rescue piles from the bottom shelf in local shops as well, some days the coop seems to not have any, which in a largely no part of Edinburgh would be hard pushed to sell out, must look under the actual shelving unit itself next time, dont care if I look mad! Its not the best and some headlines are annoying re the Scottish government, makes it look like we do have more powers than in reality…otherwise some good stuff. Will keep supporting it, for now.
labour party deceit and rotten to the core…
link to newsnet.scot
CameronB Brodie
Gramsci said that revolution would only work if it builds from the ground up. That is why we got so close in Sept and that is why we will eventually succeed.
john king,
“I think the Herald group are choking off the sales by delivering fewer (if any) to supermarkets, they’re killing their own child”
What makes you think that?
Why would they want to do such a thing?
Can’t remember where I got his link earlier on but worth sharing again anyway..
What Ian Hamilton QC thinks of Jim Murphy and the @Scottish’ labour party link to tinyurl.com
I’m sorry I don’t have the knack of being humorous but I know from past reading that many who contribute to Wings have it. Maybe a cheek on my part but can I put in a plea for more humour and less ‘seriousness’. We are making slow but steady progress every day. The opposition were always going to do their cynical best to destroy us but they can’t achieve that unless we let them. Let’s be utterly relentless and have a right good laugh while we’re at it. I’m sure you all know how foostie faced the ‘proud Scotch’ are, their faces all but crack at the very thought of our temerity. To hear us laughing at them is just the tonic they don’t need. A few of them might even start laughing with us.
Cameron B honey xxx
Lab/Con don’t have to have formal coalition. Still supposedly against each other. Minority Labour govt proposes Trident, austerity etc. supported by Tories on individual issue basis. SNP ignored. Public in Scotland become fed up with ‘ineffectual’ SNP and come back to the fold of ‘real’ politics. What are the odds?
buy the National – if it needs improvement in any area, write in and tell them. Please. I find the on-line subscription service for both it and the Sunday Herald excellent and good value for money for anyone who can’t harrass a Scottish shop for their copy
Lenny Hartley
So he wasn’t a Bolshevik then? 🙂
My point was there is a power behind British Labour (the Fabian Society), and they are calling for stirring messages, in ordinary every-day language, in order to win back the hearts and minds of Scots. A bit like what Lurch has been failing at recently. 😉
xx Paula
I was determined to support the Sunday Herald.
So, from Day One, I decided to have it delivered.
Then, when The National was announced, I ordered that too.
Upside?
1. Supports Independence movement.
2. Supports Sunday Herald publications.
3. Supports my local Newsagent. (Family business)
4. Supports my paper ‘boy’…
(Both he and I are well past our ‘three score and ten’, but the letterbox clatter wakens me at 7.20 am each weekday – on the button, rain, shine or anything else.)
Downside?
1. Wife demands P&J by similar means. (Yes voter, though)
2. Haven’t cracked the National crossword yet.
2. Lots of reading.
3. Lots of recycling.
I’ll keep it up as long as the pension lets me.
Jimbo,
I noticed this trick on Sunday looking for the Sunday Herald, they were tucked under the Mail on Sunday.
As for the Guardian comment sales at now “only” 15,000 to 20,000 – says who? This is a throw away comment to test our resolve and look for comments on this site probably combined with a “hiding” of the National under unsold Daily Records! It’s a ploy to try and introduce doubt that’s all.
Keep the faith and purpose Wingers – the Unionists are really crapping themselves with only 100 days to go.
@CameronB Brodie says:27 January, 2015 at 8:08 pm:
“I don’t mean to be rude to new posters, but that is just wrong.
That, CameronB, can in no way be considered rude. The fact is the proper method of reply to such claptrap is to quote real facts to prove it is utter balderdash. As you have not done so – Please allow me to do so.
The Scottish per capita GDP is higher than both the average per capita GDP of England and the entire rest of the UK. Not only that but the Scottish per capita employment figures are marginally better than that of both England and the UK.
NOTE – Per capita GDP is that figure derived from the total revenue raised from a given area divided by the total population of that given area..
In addition to those figures much of the Scottish revenue figures are distorted by, shall we call it, Creative Accounting?
One method of so doing is that much valuable Scottish exports are NOT credited as Scottish by being exported from English ports and airports. Examples being the biggest exporter of Scotch Whisky is Diageo who are based in London and the 5000 Miles of Scottish North Sea Territory stolen by Brown & Co and counted as English waters.
Now as to the silly idea that as there are more English taxpayers then they subsidise the Scots. This idea displays the poor state of the English Education System. Let us examine that stupid claim.
In the first place the basic rules of arithmetic are being ignored. First rule of arithmetic is that you must consider both sides of the equation to get the correct result. The second is that you must do the same calculation to both siders of the equal sign in the equation.
So yes there are indeed more English and thus more English tax payers but there are also more English people dependant upon that English tax take. So tax take minus Tax spend is the correct calculation and England is over its head in debt. England has been in Fiscal Deficit for many years and a Fiscal Deficit means a country does not raise enough revenues to pay for its spending. Hence the UK’s massive debts
As already mentioned the per capita employment figures for England are lower than in Scotland and that means more dole payments per capita. Then we have welfare payments and London has not only the worst child poverty in the UK but the highest per capita figures and they are closely followed by the other main English cities.
Figures are taken from the Government’s ONS, (Office of National Statistics).
The truth is that Scotland subsidises England and has done for a great number of years. Not to mention that Westminster claims 100% of oil & Gas revenues although 95% of them come from Scottish territory but Westminster claims it as from Extra-Regio Territory and then only credits Scotland with 8.4% of the revenues.
So CameronB, perhaps you may now have second thoughts about being, (just a wee bit), rude next time you are faced with such downright misinformation or downright, lies.
Tesco in Shettleston do sell The National but its usually hidden under piles of Evening Times, Daily Mails etc despite their being a display space for it!!!
That’s John Nicolson selected as candidate for East Dunbartonshire, where the SNP are 5/4 and both Labour and LibDems at 9/4.
Makes my life easier as I couldn’t decide between him and another excellent candidate (North Ayrshire and Arran).
John Nicolson has been active in TV, so should be a useful resource for the 59 SNP MPs going to Westminster 🙂
I buy the National whenever I can. It’s not everyday as I’m not near a newsagent everyday but as I said, as much as I can.
I also have subscribed to the iScot magazine, a monthly and it is “homegrown” from a long time Winger which gets delivered to my home so no need to search under the Daily Mail.
In my view, if you can afford it, then we should support any publication that supports us and our goals.
You can read iScot for free or subscribe to iScot here:
link to iscot.scot
I left a search on AbeBooks.co.uk for ‘The Claim of Scotland’.
They’ve just offered me a copy at…
£75!
Naw, nae jist now, thanks.
Robert Peffers
To be honest, I thought it was so wrong that I didn’t know where to start. All will to construct a proper reply was simply sucked out of me. 🙂
Perhaps this is the ‘new stealth style’? 🙂
Just as well we’ve got you. 😉
O/T, this may be, but while the subject’s been raised. If the editor of the National is reading this – which he’d be a total numpty not to be doing – think about the people who only need a satisfyingly, ego-boosting, easy-peasy coffee break crossword. Not everyone can do the cryptic version.
Tesco in Forfar didn’t have the Sunday Herald, I asked and they said they must have sold out but I could see no vacant tray on their display stand.
Maybe it is time to consider a volunteer ‘National’ distribution a la ‘Morning Star’ etc? “Get your only real Scottish paper here!”
@Barontorc
Yes, a wee easy crossword would be good, I’m hopeless at cryptic crosswords.
Maybe even a wee chess column, I’m sure Scotland’s highest rated Grandmaster Jonathon Rowson would consider doing it.
He is a Yes supporter after all. A good read from a bright guy.
“As an exile I can’t vote in Scotland’s referendum, but I know I’d vote yes”
link to theguardian.com
I bought the National last night at the wee Tesco (is it called Metro?) on Argyle Street near the Tron, so some branches do sell it; it was clearly displayed and there were another couple of copies under the one I bought.
So if anyone’s having trouble getting it in central Glasgow (as opposed to Glasgow Central), try there.
Arthur Thopmson says
“To hear us laughing at them is just the tonic they don’t need. A few of them might even start laughing with us.”
What?
Like this you mean?
link to youtube.com
Rock says
“Why would they want to do such a thing?”
Dont underestimate the dark forces we’re up against,
They may have been (instructed) to give the “seperatists” a platform then pull it away like a hangmans trapdoor
rule no 1:
that paper is owned by people who dont like us and we don’t like them, I said myself when it comes to making money these people are happy to put aside belief in favour of profit, but when told to do the bidding of the establishment,
well that takes precedence over any thought of profit,
It very well could have been a trap all along to create a sense of defeat in the YES camp.
The National is a bonus, THIS is where it’s at 🙂
@robert peffers @cameronB
I don’t like being called a liar so here we go.
Check ifs.org.uk Scotland tax take per capita 2012/13 was £8k per person inc geographical share of North Sea, England tax take per capita was £7.5k.
Check parliament.uk Scotland public spending per head 2012/13 was £10,152 England was £8,526
You do the maths!
Makes full financial independence look a bit of a worry!
@Calum Craig
The referendum count was the first time in my life I stayed up all night to watch. I intend to do that again, unless all the Scottish seats are counted by the sma’ hours. Of course any idea of sinking a dram for every SLAB seat that falls is off the table instantly. I’d be paralytic, and out of single malts. I might take a celebratory sip mind. I have malts from a wide geography of Scotland so might even be able to make some of those sips appropriate, given warning of which counts are about to announce.
I’m surprised anybody believes any statistics that come from ANY source tied to UK Gov.
If the Scottish Gov has published figures these are the sums you hang your hat on. Use them 100%.
Rock,
The vote wasnt rigged. They didnt need to rig it, just manipulate and lie as we seen during the process and as we see they’re still doing it. Infact the No vote gave them licence to continue blatantly.
Any move we make towards independence the Establishment will do anything to keep us.
Voters are dumb: in some respect we should ask ourselves was Scotland ready for independence if they believed a mock up Vow in the DR?
Im not advocating voilence but we may need to be a wee bit more assertive in our demands.
Regards.
@James- the England spend is an average of all the different ‘regions’ and you will find that the vast majority of that cash is spent in London and the SE whilst the NE is underfunded.
In recent years London’s spend per capita has been greater than Scotland’s.
There is also capital spend which means that the whole UK contributes towards major works in London eg the new sewer, cross rail 1 and 2 etc.
Some people will never be convinced that Scotland can make it financially but why should a country with vast natural resources, a decent infrastructure and transport system fail?
Countries with a lot less than us cope just fine.
@liz
Of course Scotland as an independent country could succeed. It just could not succeed and run an anti austerity program at the same time. It could not afford current levels of expenditure let alone higher ones.
@james — Scotland has a lot more going for it than oil.
Whisky accounts for 25% of the TOTAL Uk’s food and drink exports.
One of the reasons London and the SE are so successful is due to the huge amount of investment, still ongoing, in that region.
At the same time as both Govan and Portsmouth were losing jobs in the ship yards, a new port was opened in London with 15,000 new jobs.
Cn you imagine if the same happened here?
You have to get away from the mind-set that an independent Scotland would run it’s affairs I the same way as the UK.
@Liz
I totally accept what you say about a different way of running things. I was just pointing out that a lot of current public spending commitments would not be affordable initially in an independent Scotland. There is a lot of rhetoric on this site which suggests it would be.
James
Could Scotland borrow like other countries to pay for commitments till things settled down?
@james – There is a lot of rhetoric on this site which suggests it would be.
I seem to recall the ratings agency Standard and Poor’s coming out with ‘rhetoric’ about how Scotland could go it alone…
link to archive.today
john king,
“Dont underestimate the dark forces we’re up against,
They may have been (instructed) to give the “seperatists” a platform then pull it away like a hangmans trapdoor”
That is what I have been saying.
They took it out AFTER the referendum to milk the Yes market, knowing that there was no chance of another referendum any time soon.
Now that the Westminster election is quite close and SNP support remains unexpectedly high, they might think it is too risky to continue.
I have never underestimated the dark forces we’re up against and have been warning others not to, especially Labour and the BBC.
CameronB Brodie,
“I don’t mean to be rude to new posters, but that is just wrong.”
He is not new, he is a regular troll.
BILL,
“The vote wasnt rigged. They didnt need to rig it, just manipulate and lie as we seen during the process and as we see they’re still doing it. Infact the No vote gave them licence to continue blatantly.”
Were they so confident that they didn’t have a contingency rigging plan in place in case it was needed?
And then they panicked at the last moment?
“As an ex forces type I can assure you the Brutish Establishment won’t allow Scotland to leave this rancid union.”
Without rigging, surely they would have no other choice?
@Bill – So I am now a Troll as well as a liar. All I was doing was saying exactly what the S&P report Croompenstein is referencing says i.e. That Scotland would have to shrink its public sector as an independent or financially independent entity. All the anti austerity and full financial independence chatter on this site are incompatible, they cannot co-exist.
I am not saying that a different more co-operative approach couldn’t work.