Britain’s shame
If you raise the slightest voice of dissent to the increasing fetishisation of the military in the UK these days, you risk drawing down a barrage of foul-mouthed ire on your head from furious British nationalists, inexplicably enraged at the expression of the desire not to send the sons, daughters, friends, fathers and mothers of Scotland off to die pointlessly in foreign countries where we have no legitimate business.
So it was nice to have our comments about the crass, jingoistic “commemoration” of last year’s Remembrance Day circus at Ibrox echoed this week by the joint chiefs of Scotland’s armed forces, who have ordered that the grotesque, “inappropriate” scenes will not be repeated in future. We hope the club’s fans, and others of the same mindset, will pay more attention when rebuked by such impeccable authorities than they ever would to the objections of evil traitorous cybernats like us.
But, y’know, we won’t be holding our breath.
(And what better way could there be to mark International Holocaust Remembrance Day – which is today, January 27th – than with a hearty “Fuck Nazi Scotland”?)
They’ll give an MBE to anyone these days…
Rangers are and always have been closer to the Nazis in their attitude than any other people in Scotland. I’m glad they are dead. It wasn’t their entire first team that joined up in August 1914. Glasgow cowards and bigots then now and always.
If the new rangers were not the only significant public manifestation of unionism would the EBC give them the same bottom licking coverage? Any excuse to get rule Britannia on the radio maybe?
Sadly, irrational distrust of Scotland and all things Scottish is not the preserve of the Rangers lunatic fringe. Bit self-conscious about looking like I’m plugging my own stuff but I do think it’s relevant to this issue of the Old Firm and the blindness of some of their support …
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/01/23/celtic-connections/
Seems to me , supporting our troops and while condemming those who send them on pointless wars based on outright lies is perfectly legitimate.
Our troops deserve better than to be thrown into conflicts ill prepared and ill equipped by leaders who care more for their own bank balances and prestige than those whose lives they are so hasty to put at risk.
Now I know nothing about football, but aren’t you football boys forgetting the anti Scottish Nationalist BUT pro Irish Republican Celtic F.C.?
Republican Irish Unionist Monarchists in Scotland. I in an idle moment designed a new flag for there football ground and Orange White and Green Union Flag.
Or is a football hating aetheist who approves of an Irish AND a Scottish republic the only one to notice this peculiarity?
Rangers apparently are the only story in town? As a young man I remember both of these malevolent crews wandering Saturdays in Glasgow, while we listened to jazz in the Strand Bar.
Ah football the beautiful game…yes just WEE Game
When it comes to the Rangers…I do walking away.
FreddieThreepwood says:
“Sadly, irrational distrust of Scotland and all things Scottish is not the preserve of the Rangers lunatic fringe. Bit self-conscious about looking like I’m plugging my own stuff but I do think it’s relevant to this issue of the Old Firm and the blindness of some of their support”.
Couldn’t agree more Fred. As one who supported Third Lanark, Rangers (up until I discovered I could not play for them as my mum was a Catholic!) and now Aberdeen and Celtic, I find the reluctance of many Old Firm fans to accept that they are Scottish most depressing. The fact that many Rangers fans see themselves as being British and many Celtic fans see themselves as being Irish, is evidence of just what we in the pro-independence movement are up against. It is a classic case of divide and rule.
Talking of being up against it, I have been in touch by email with Lucinda Creighton the Irish Minister for Europe with regard to her alleged comments on an independent Scotland in Europe. It would appear that our very own Raymond Buchanan of BBC Scotland fame has been less than accurate in his reporting of his interview with Ms Creighton. If anyone is interested in my exchange of emails with Ms Creighton and her version of what she actually said to Mr. Buchanan, let me know on here and with the Rev’s permission, I will relate a rather different version of the interview to the one Mr. Buchanan claims to have taken place!
One of my daughters and long-term boy-friend are Rangers supporters, and so are the boy-friend’s parents, both of whom support Independence, one an SNP member, one ex-labour trade unionist.
Nothing swivel-eyed or Nazi about them. I find this article offensive.
@dasarmy
‘Nothing swivel-eyed or Nazi about them. I find this article offensive.’
Which bit do you find offensive?
Semus, spot on! I have been going on about how both these supposedly antagonistic communities seem to find it perfectly acceptable to vote on mass for the same British Labour Party. Celtic’s Barron’s Reid and Martin, Brits to their core and professed Irish Nationalists. Celtic minded Brits voting Labour to protect themselves from a supposedly Rangers Proddy Orange dominated Independent Scotland. Rangers minded Proddy Orange Brits voting British Labour (after the death of the Scottish Conservative and Unionists) to save themselves from a supposedly Papist conspiracy dominated Independent Scotland. I think it’s pretty obvious which political party in Scotland now benefits from and has a vested interest in the continuation of sectarian division in West Central Scotland and it is not the SNP. The longer the Tories have been dead the more untenable this delusional thinking has become and no matter how hard the McMahons of this world keep pushing this fallacy the more it is becoming ridiculous to everyone but the diehard.
Bill C, I am interested.
As for the main story. My family are divided and united by religion and football. I wholeheartedly embrace the sport of Origami for its lack of sectarianism as Fitty really doesny do it for me. Furthermore, I’ll happily toddle along this mortal coil as an a-religious, atheist beast.
Hazel.
I posted this on the Britsman site today in comments section of an article about Celtic Fans for (Scottish)Independence…
>One would expect that Celtic fans with their rich history of Ireland’s brave fight for Independence would be highly supportive of Scotland’s bid to do likewise.
However you will never get that from the club’s leaders, 90 minute ROI patriots all, and died in the wool Union Jackists. They are the Bhoys Family of the totally corrupt Scotia Nostra that run Labour in Scotland along with their Orange Unionist brethern – the true meaning of the Old Firm.
Just look at some of Celtic’s ‘socialist’ elite politicos, ‘Lord’ Reid and ‘Lord’ Martin. Socialists FFS? You could not make it up! Then you have ermine robe chasers like, Jim Murphy and Margaret Curran, along with twin Ministers of Unionist Propoganda, Michael Kelly and Brian Wilson, who’s anti-Scottish Independence rants so regularly foul this newspaper.<
Guys,
As a Rangers supporter and a passionate supporter of Independence, please do not group the tribalistic ramblings of a large number of supporters and then classing everyone in one big British Nationalism group, all my friends around me at Ibrox are SNP voters (as I’m sure many are) and will be voting YES.
However, I do support the right of questioning what happens with our fans and the nonsense that appears on social media from the uneducated. (yes I class Ian Davidson in this)
My one problem is; that if we are to achieve a YES result, everyone must be up there standing in the front line, I am not interested in a fellow “yes..er” football team, religion, colour etc we have to be careful not to divide.
Keep up the good work!!
I am of sufficient vintage to be the son of one catholic and one protestant parent, when that was not the commonplace situation that it is now.
One of the issues that most impressed me about the SNP was the regular playing of the song “Forget the old orange and green” which was in essence a plea by the SNP not to allow the politics of Scotland to be perverted by sectarian issues.
It was certainly the case that “Scottish ” Labour regularly whispered into the appropriate ears that SNP stood for “Stein Next Pope” (I know he was a protestant but we are not talking about a sophisticated message here) or alternatively “Scottish No Popery”.
Sectarianism IS dying in Scotland but the unionists are happy to stoke and blow on the embers-shame on them.
Bigheed, more power to your elbow and very well said!
Rangers and Presbyterianism …you would think that the two were joined at the hip, but on closer inspection – they aren’t. However, the vast majority of not only Rangers fans, but even a good portion of our population seem to think so too.
When John Knox set out to change Scotland from a Catholic nation to a Protestant one, he had 3 decrees setup. These were…
1. To breakaway from the Catholic church and its teachings (he considered the church corrupt because of the way the Priests lived a lavish lifestyle, while the poor starved to death)
2. To setup a school in each Parish so that people could learn to read the Bible (if they could read the Bible, then they could talk to God directly, thus no need for a Priest of Pope to be your spokesman)
3. To defend Scotland from ill rule, whether it is from a saintly King or from the meanest Knave.
Now, lets look at these 3 rules of Presbyterianism. The first, is the one that seems to be associated with Presbytarianism. Yet, it is partially flawed, as it isn’t about hating the Pope – it was to replace the Pope so people could talk to God directly. If you can read the Bible, why do you need the Pope? (Persoanlly speaking, I have nothing against the Catholic Church or the Pope. I don’t really care!! They provide a Service to a Billion people who wish to live by that faith – it’s all about choice really!!).
We come to the other 2 decrees. Knox’s wish for a school in each Parish – this is probably Knox’s greatest work. It revolutionised everything. It led us from being a backwater illetarate country to being the most enlightened within a century. By teaching the masses to read – it changed Scotland forever!!
The 3rd decree is the one that conflicts with British Unionism – ‘the right of every Scotsman to defend Scotland’ …and for the Scottish Unionists, without realising, they are actually in conflict with the one of the main decrees of Presbytarianism. Thus, they are actually standing against their a part of their own faith.
This is one of the reasons that Scottish kids need to be taught Scottish history – not to glorify the Reformation, but to tell them the truth of it all. To give them the facts, and thus further enlighten them.
You could say that I am a Scottish Presbytarian. I was raised by my parents in that faith, even though I don’t attend church. I have a stepdaughter who is Catholic from my wife’s first marriage, and I adore this child as though she was my own. To me, being ‘Presbytarian’, isn’t about Religion (I’m done with that nonsense). It’s to do with much more than that – it is about working hard in life, learning as much as I can in this life (Knowx’s 2nd Decree), and to help Scotland and love whenvever I can (the 3rd decree).
This is why I find these ‘…Proddies’ …who proclaim to keep the faith, yet, are actually ignorant of it, and are actually standing against it.
The only football I watch is the Scottish National Team. I moved to the Central Belt a few years ago from the North East of Scotland. I was completely mesmerised when I happened to see a rangers game on TV and a multitude of Union Jacks all around the stadium. I could not comrehend why Scots were holding Union Flags? I did not see one Saltire? I still do not understand what is going on. I could never fly a Union jack anywhere in Scotland even if you paid me to.
Apologies …grrr …the 3rd decree should say
Thus, they are actually standing against their own faith.
(I should read these things before posting …grrrrr!!!)
It’s to do with much more than that – it is about working hard in life, learning as much as I can in this life (Knox’s 2nd Decree), and to help Scotland and love that nation, whenvever I can (the 3rd decree).
(Another tidy-up ….apologies!!)
I had a young man with a Ranger’s scarf sign the Yes Scotland pledge on Saturday in Glasgow…
…and for a split second I was thinking of NOT approaching him with a leaflet.
I’m glad I did.
Bigheed
Well said. I’m a Hibs fan and I know Rangers fans who support Independence. All football clubs have tribialistic fans-that’s the nature of the beast. I even suspect that there will be a number of Orange Order members who will vote YES, although will not admit it.
JLT
As I’m sure you are aware The Church of Scotland presented a petition with a million signatures in protest of The Act Of Union in 1707. Riots in the streets in Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Folks – I have a son who is a bluenose and a SNP supporter, who even though he lives and works in England, still keeps his voting address here in the far North so he can take part in 2014. He still has a soft spot for Wick Academy and Ross County so not all bad.
I think we will all be suprised by how many Rangers supports will vote SNP in the end. They are just not the ones tweeting about it in 2013.
@ spout
Spout says:
27 January, 2013 at 3:50 pm
I had a young man with a Ranger’s scarf sign the Yes Scotland pledge on Saturday in Glasgow…
…and for a split second I was thinking of NOT approaching him with a leaflet.
I had a similar experience, Spout. Was handing out leaflets in a north of Glasgow area and deliberately didn’t approach a young man wearing a Rangers scarf. Wish I had now.
r.a.m I personally know of a few rangers fans and o.o members who vote S.N.P and support independence . As the coalition cuts start to bite this year and people start to worry about their jobs and homes a lot more of the soft unionists will start to question their allegiance to an outdated and corrupt institution .
@ronald alexander mcdonald
The Church of Scotland presented a petition with a million signatures in protest of The Act Of Union in 1707.
Thanks for that, Ronald. I didn’t know that.
@ Tearlach
Sorry to be a pedant, as your message is very positive and inclusive. However, I am sure you are aware that the vote in 2014 will be a Yes/No vote on independence, not for a political party. An easy mistake to make, and I am sorry to be the one to point it out to you.
Hi Ron,
Yep, I knew about the Petitions. I think it was hilarious that those Earls and Lairds that did sign the document, had to flee for their lives !!
Overall, I think we should try and speak to all football fans. I’m not picking on Rangers – far from it, for we all know that not all Rangers fans are anti-independence, and there will be many who will want to live in an Independent Scotland. There are just as many knuckle-draggers at Celtic, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. But with our media (also being west coast media), the OF will headline more often than not, hence the higher coverage of bad things for those 2 teams.
I just think its terrible that we have to worry about the lines of religion before approaching people. If the Better Together campaign think that raising Religion is a winning issue, then good luck to them. Presonally, I think they will find the vast majority of people will be disgusted with their actions …and it will be remembered.
Glad to see that Rangers supporters, well some of us at least, are behind the ‘Yes’ vote for Scottish Independence.
They should be encouraged to do so. Heaping scorn on shoulders and tarring all with the same brush doesn’t do the cause of Independence any favours.
Every vote will count.
@Cameron – Dohhhhh – how embarrassing, and thanks for pointing that out. I’m blushing as I write this as I have been known to make the very same point myself, both in print and in conversation.
Hangs head in shame, and goes to the naughty corner. Please excuse it as a rapidly approaching senior moment……
O/T
I did like the cropping of the picture with the squaddies on the roof. Such manipulation of photographic evidence is exactly what the MSM has been caught doing on a number of occasions, in their effort to drum up support for illegal wars. Big difference in end result though, as I think WOS is attempting to stimulate debate, where as the MSM were/are attempting to encourage bloody murder.
@ Tearlach
Its Sunday, give yourself a break. 🙂
@Hazel Lewry – Hazel, as you are the only person to express interest, I will try and send relevant information to your blog.
@ Bill C
I would be interested, I just didn’t think it was my “place” to make such a request. Odd that.
Bill, me too!
@Bill C
And me.
@ Hazel Lewry – Hazel, change of plan.
@ Cameron – Hopefully the Rev will allow me to tell the tale on here.
I assume you guys know the story of Nicola’s visit to Ireland and the subsequent furore over Raymond Buchanan’s interview with Lucinda Creighton an Irish TD. If not, it is covered in two excellent article over on NNS.
After the first article on NNS I was so inscensed that I emailed Ms Creighton to express my anger at her supposed negative intervention in our Referendum debate. To her credit she immediately emailed me back denying what Raymond Bucahanan said. She said that her comments had been “misconstrued” and “manipulated”. I feel that I am not betraying any confidences here and can quote Ms Creighton, as she sent a very similar email to Nicola Sturgeon and others and permitted Nicola to publish it on her blog.
The main point of all of this is that a reporter from BBC Scotland would have appeared to have “misconstrued” and “manipulated” the comments of a foreign Government Minister in an attempt to damage the YES campaign. This is an outrageous situation and warrants an investigation into the professionalism of BBC Scotland and the reporter involved.
I hope the Rev will forgive me for going well o/t on this one, however I think this is so serious that as many people as possible should know what our National Broadcaster is capable of.
@ Bill C
I couldn’t agree more! This is probably the most significant and clear cut case of MSM bias there has been to date (please, please correct me if anyone has a more significant example). The language of Ms Creighton’s e-mail to Nicola leaves no doubt as to the level of distortion Ms Creighton is unhappy about.
I hope the Rev. will allow all of us to see Ms Creighton’s version of events.
The email from Lucinda Creighton can be found at:
Apologies, email at:
http://www.scotreferendum.com/2013/01/26/irelands-minister-for-european-affairs/
Surely there must be some way to raise a serious complaint against Raymond Bucahanan?
There has to be someone or some media watchdog that we can turn to. Surely, even the Scottish Government should be able to bring Buchanan to book, or if not him …his bosses in the media.
This has got to stop. It is blatant and downright lying to the Scottish Public. Any other industry that did this, then you would be fired, or even prosecuted !! It’s literally literal fraud !!!!
BBC Scotland is fast becoming a parody of itself, no wonder BBC Scotlandshire took off. Ever since Kirsty Wark went on holiday with Jack McConnell, who was First Minister at the time, it has become increasingly surreal.
Misuse of public funds perhaps? Then again, I saw some terrible things when I worked at the old Scottish Office. Don’t hold your breath for the official channels to sort this one out.
Surely, even the Scottish Government should be able to bring Buchanan to book, or if not him …his bosses in the media.
In my view, I think with Lucinda Creighton’s letter to Nicola Sturgeon, that there is enough evidence here for the Scottish Government to prove that there has been underhand playing going on here by the BBC. Surely, they can bring the bosses of the Scottish BBC in, and grill them.
What Buchanan has done is deceitful, and it is basically – lie telling. He can spout any amount of garbage to say that it is poetic licence, but not when you try to pass it off to the population as FACT. I can’t see how he can squirm his way out of it. He has LIED! There is enough here to force the BBC’s hand in getting it’s political house in order.
I mean…what will it take for the Scottish Government to finally get involved, and get its hands dirty. Even the Unionist parties would find it hard to back the journalist, especially in the light of the letter. I mean …what is Lamont going to do …call Lucinda Creighton a liar???? Can you imagine the fallout and anger from the Republic if she did !!!
I’ve just thought that we should perhaps be a little circumspect in how we discuss the issue. There might already be official/legal wheels in motion.
On the Sunday Politics show today, they brought up this subject with Fiona Hyslop, then played an extened version of the BBC interview with Ms. Creighton. They didn’t say they’d got it wrong, just showed the clip in more detail and emphasised the point that Scotland would have to apply to join the EU.
@ BillC.
Reference your correspondence with Lucinda Creighton, the BBC Politics show today seemed anxious to defend their version of the interview with her. So yes it would be informative to have your exchange with her posted here, provided the lady is in agreement.
Her reply to us plebs is very similar to her reply to Nicola Sturgeon which is available on the latter’s blog.
@velofello – More than happy to publish on here my email exchange with Lucinda Creighton, with, as you say, her permission. However, I am in agreement with Cameron “I’ve just thought that we should perhaps be a little circumspect in how we discuss the issue. There might already be official/legal wheels in motion.”
My gut instinct is to wait and see how this pans out. Nicola Sturgeon and others have, I believe, similarly worded emails and I know Lucinda gave Nicola permission to publish the one she sent to Nicola.
What I also know is that this matter cannot be allowed to rest, there is too much at stake here. If unionist journalists are allowed to lie, distort and smear at random, the Referendum is lost. We must fight back and if the fight back starts here, so be it. I would welcome any other thoughts on this matter.
I echo other people’s experiences of pro-independence Rangers fans, in a Venn diagram there might be a large amount of overlap between the team and unionist leanings, but the fans are a much more diverse bunch. One fellow I know goes to every home game he can, is George Galloway’s biggest fan – and is still a staunch independence supporter.
I can think too of Celtic fans I know, some pro independence, some anti. You can probably say the same for every team in the country (except Aberdeen of course 😉 )
It is a mistake to assume we know how people think in this referendum campaign based on their team…
This could be a benchmark. Nip them in the bud now, so they do not have the next two years to peddle their ssssshan’t say what.
the only thing I dislike about this site is the rampant anti rangers sentiment , as a card carrying SNP member , supporter of independence and wait for it a Rangers fan ,I and many others who follow this team do not follow the rhetoric about being unionist because I follow this team , my sisters are celti fans ,my father a Dons fan,I followed rangers before I understood sectarianism as a six year old but that has never been my forte ,must be because I dont love in the south of Scotland, but you never hear about the unionist element of hearts , the Irish following of Hibs ,Dundee Utd on top of the well publicised Celtic, At our school our headmaster was ex Rangers Hearts ,and St Mirren player Jim Roger but he never would have condoned
a sectarian thought, its time for all fans to realise just because our colours are different,are we any different
but to stop the rivalry once the 90 minutes are over ,it has caused pain on all sides
I’ll second that.
It would be nice to think that Ms Creighton had already contacted the people at BBC to make her views known to them. A good slap down from an Irish Government Minister might just be the thing to make them a little more careful regards how they report what people say.
It would be even nicer to see the BBC apologising to Ms. Creighton.
Regarding this ‘Rangers’ stuff, it frankly bores the shit out of me. I can’t stand either them or Glasgow Celtic. I was born in Glasgow and brought up in a Scottish Presbyterian household where I was taught by my father to have respect for other peoples religion and faith and consequently over the years have had Catholic friends; still do in fact. But I find it hard to make friends with any Rangers or Celtic supporters. I know of course that there are many supporters of both of those teams who will be voting yes in the referendum. It’s just that I find it difficult to ‘chime’ with them.
The BBC have previous form in news manipulation.
http://www.nicholasjones.org.uk/articles/40-trade-union-reporting/106-an-untold-story-fresh-allegations-about-state-manipulation-in-bbcs-reporting-of-miners-strike
“The BBC is in the dock because the pictures in its main television report presented the “battle” in the reverse order: the pickets were shown attacking the police when those on the ground at Orgreave said that in fact that it was the miners who were retaliating after they had been subjected first to a baton-wielding charge by mounted police.”
The same can be said of the MSM coverage of the anti-Poll Tax riot in London, dubbed the “Battle of Trafalgar 2”.
http://www.spectacle.co.uk/catalogue_production.php?id=55
The Rough Bounds.
If you can’t ‘chime’ with folk that intend to vote for Scottish Independence words fail me.
It’s a glitch in your character, but we wont hold it against you.
Any Celtic Fan, or anybody else for that matter, is welcome to join our happy, ever increasing band.
Hope this isn’t considered OT, but what about the man who will soon take over as head of the Bank of England. Looks like Mark Carney is getting ready to do a bit of pumping. That is what Jim O’Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, seems to be telling him to do. He told the BBC that;
“Based on my business experience, if what you thought was not delivering what you expect to be the outcome, surely you have to change what you thought a little. At a minimum, a repositioning of the stance, if not a full change.”
Ironic really, given the roll Goldman Sachs played in creating the current economic climate, and that it has probably benefited the most at the expense of ordinary punters. I’m beginning to think Carroll Quigley was on to something.
@Cameron: It is a bit too late on a Sunday evening to absorb much of your data on Carroll Quigley but, – they formed their group “to gradually absorb the world’s weaith ” – did catch my eye. Does seem so current?
@ Velofello
Thanks for checking his link. I wasn’t really expecting anyone to dive in to the deep end tonight, I just thought as you did, that there are certain themes in his work that are relevant today. Although some have tried to dismiss him as a “conspiracy cook”, his role as archivist for the CFR suggests to me that at least one side of Wall Street trusted him.
I had hoped to suggest that the Bank of England could be seen as “Britain’s shame”. Note to self, try and remember to call a spade a spade. 🙂
Wullie B,
the only thing I dislike about this site is the rampant anti rangers sentiment , as a card carrying SNP member , supporter of independence and wait for it a Rangers fan
Wullie, I wouldn’t take it all too much to heart. If you do read some of the comments, a few folk have said Rangers fans, but that doesn’t mean ALL Rangers fans. As I stressed in my comments, the same idiots that prevails Rangers, can be found in all other Teams supporters. I followed Livingston a few years back, and to be honest, there was about two to three dozen folk in the support (at that time of about 3,000) that bordered on the lunatic fringe. I dreaded it when we turned up in places like Inverness, and this lot started to bad-mouth the locals. It was a long way from home if you fancied a smack in the mouth!! And that’s Livingston …a small family team, and a support that is totally locked in West Lothian.
Probably the worst thing for the OF is the media themselves. When something goes wrong for the OF, then you do have the papers and TV going nuts over it. This to a degree will be viewed by the OF fans as a ‘siege mentality’. They have no choice but to throw up the barriers and protest loudly. If you have to point a finger mate – blame the media. I’ve seen the Daily Record, the Sun, Reporting Scotland, etc fall over themselves to talk about the OF. That is where the bad press comes from …not from the other fans really. Rather than letting the OF quietly deal with a bad matter, the Press and Media display it in neon lights, with a souped up speaker system – so that everyone then knows about the problem!!!
Matey, I won’t go deep into it. Football to a huge degree has nothing to do with Independence. I know quite a few Rangers supporters, and have drank with them while watching OF games on a Sunday afternoon. Sure the banter between the supporters can be funny, daft, and even nippy, but afterwards, I’ve seen both sets of OF fans sit down at the same table and then watch the 4pm English game. This is how it is in Livingston (a right mixed town for Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibs and Livi – it is a 5 team town!!!) If anything …what comments are made on this site, should be taken as the usual footie banter, and if so, should be rightly ignored and not be perceived to be anti-Rangers, and it should have nothing to do with Independence.
I was born a catholic and never had any love of Rangers, but being a DUFC supporter I had no love for Celtic either. The blatant bigotry shown on here is, in my opinion self defeating. To ‘slag off’ one team for being bigots is, in itself, expressing bigotry. I know protestants who are staunch Celtic supporters and Catholics who are staunch Rangers supporters. Don’t ask me why that is just how it is. I’ve never supported bigotry and will not be supporting it now.
What is important is the political leanings of the supporters from either side of the camp. The are Unionists in the catholic camp and independents in the protestant camp; so what. I do not call those who support the Union ("Tractor" - Ed)s, Quislings or any other insult, in fact I don’t insult them at all because I do not see them as ("Tractor" - Ed)s or ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s but as mistaken in their outlook. I respect their point of view because that is what they think, and in a democratic system they have the right to think as they please. I would even go further and defend their right to be wrong.
Just to add I would like to point out that the security services will be acting as fifth columnists within the independents ranks trying to stir as much trouble as they possibly can. Just try and remember that.
“I was born a catholic and never had any love of Rangers, but being a DUFC supporter I had no love for Celtic either. The blatant bigotry shown on here is, in my opinion self defeating.”
Let’s get a couple of things cleared up:
1. This post was about BritNats, not Rangers. But if you can find me a better example of a crass, tacky, downright appalling “commemoration” of the UK’s war dead than the one that happened at Ibrox last November, point it out to me and I’ll write about it.
2. It was also making the point that for all independence supporters get attacked for criticising such events, in fact even the armed forces themselves agreed that they were inappropriate and shouldn’t be repeated. We were right. It doesn’t hurt to point that out sometimes.
3. We’re often told how many Rangers fans support independence. I didn’t see many gaps in those Union Jack displays. It is, of course, the case that some do, and those people are very welcome indeed. But let’s not exaggerate the proportion of them who are sitting embarrassed at Ibrox when it’s lustily belting out “Rule Britannia”.
4. It was quite funny to use the “ANGER” picture.
None of the above constitutes “bigotry” by any known definition. I will not be held responsible for things people wrongly infer from words which don’t say, or intend, those things.
I agree3 Rangers are a Loyallist team ie Loyal to the Queen ,Rev but many are supporters of independence , but for crassness on Rememberence day look at the Green Brigade(GB) whos retorts for the poppy even though many Irish catholics fell in the green fields of France , but thankfully not even 95% of their fans agree with the GB,Football has been added to the equation of politics and Religion in pubs (Never to be mentioned LOL) and quite rightly so ,Many Rangers fans travel over from Ulster and those are staunch unionist but move out with the Unionist areas and many fans are Independence supporters esp in the Highlands
The Media made a meal of the bankruptcy saga and showed their biasness (if such a word) BUT DONT tar us all with the same brush,I am not a republican ie I like the idea of a royal head of state as the Scots always had one,but sack the huge entouage that follows and ceremonial at that like Norways rather than what happens at present on these islands,When ER I passes away HRH king and QUeen Wills and Kate and when that dies the next but none of the others who are parasites in my opinion
People are allowed to voice opinions and shouldnt be slated as misinformed but entitled to those views and vice versa , We are better than that as a whole and thats why the Scots are renowned the world over as a tolerant people and thats why people can say “Fa’s like us” instead “Fa likes us”, just my humble opinion.
@Ged Many foces personnel join up because there isnt work in their own areas and are also independence supporters also ,I know as I was one ,but people say fishermen are all independence suipporters when it couldnt be further from the truth, the look at and blame the SNP for their woes ,closed areas proposed wind farms at sea closing huge expanses ,Marine Scotland and SNH closing areas as MPAs without consulting those at the frontline , this I also know through experience as apart from the few years in the forces before being discharged medically through Spinal Arthritis I have been a fisherman from a fishing family , and have known quite a few who were pro Scotland but now joined the Bitter Together side for the failings (through no fault of the their own ) the SNP and continueing support of the EU
Article title: Britain’s shame
Highlights: furious British nationalists, anger, uniforms, Ibrox, the club’s fans, cybernats like us, DailyRangersRFC, Catholics(association sectarian), Holocaust, Nazi, MBE
Impressions? Purpose? Conclusion?
As well as Rangers fans, there are a lot of residents of Scotland who feel proud to be Scottish with the Saltire, and proud to be British with the Union Jack, and who will be voting for independence catholic, protestant, presbyterian, muslim, atheist, agnostic.
Some are also “cybernats”, but not “like us”. I’m outta here.
“Article title: Britain’s shame
Highlights: furious British nationalists, anger, uniforms, Ibrox, the club’s fans, cybernats like us, DailyRangersRFC, Catholics(association sectarian), Holocaust, Nazi, MBE
Impressions? Purpose? Conclusion?
As well as Rangers fans, there are a lot of residents of Scotland who feel proud to be Scottish with the Saltire, and proud to be British with the Union Jack, and who will be voting for independence catholic, protestant, presbyterian, muslim, atheist, agnostic.
Some are also “cybernats”, but not “like us”. I’m outta here.”
[bemused expression]
Rev. Stuart Campbell,
Maybe I didn’t make myself clear enough; mea culpa. I am NOT castigating the article but more the attitude of posters on this site and many others who call Unionists ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’ and/or ‘Quislings’. They are not, they are mistaken. We are not attempting to create a dictatorship in this country but a democracy, as opposed to a British monarchy where all are ‘subjects’ to the monarch.
Wullie B.
I too was in the forces and had to come out with a bad back and I have met many people who, though loyal to the Queen, would have happily voted for independence. As to the fishermen I bow to your superior knowledge on that one as, coming from a city, I know nothing about that.
@Ged Mitchell
Maybe I didn’t make myself clear enough; mea culpa. I am NOT castigating the article but more the attitude of posters on this site and many others who call Unionists ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’ and/or ‘Quislings’.
Who called unionists that on this site?
Ged: I get your point, and I agree – I don’t think that sort of language is helpful. But I just ran a comment search and the word has only appeared in reader comments 17 times in the entire 15-month history of the site, with the vast majority of those being occurrences of people saying “Hey, we shouldn’t call folk Quislings” or similar. It’s only been used “in anger” twice that I can see in all that time, out of over 25,000 published comments.