Wings Over Scotland

Another cracker. Personally from one Hamish to another I would find another escape door! We are heading with John Bull to destruction.

We have time to prepare with the Yes campaigners to persuade the non voters, the younger folk, the waverers and the remainers to Vote for Independence.

We are the best people to govern ourselves. To choose not to fight in illegal wars, to remove the obscenity of nuclear weapons and are you listening Mr Leonard – remove the scourge of poverty.

Remain in the U.K. Union and none of the above will happen – ever.

Hamish is back!

Best call the referendum before the plane hits the ground.

He’s back!

Thanks, Chris.

Great Toon as always.

Save Scotland.

Happy Conference everyone.

Some grim reading in Hootsman via Pamala Nash and Brian Wilson but biggest laugh is in Daily Mail from Tory East Lothian council by election candidate.

Hamish is using the last parachute…. 🙂

Premature ? It’s not a word I could ever use in terms of Scotland freeing itself from the destructed forces of English imperialism.Scottish independence can’t come soon enough.

I’m genuinely puzzled by the delay

just considering what has happened since 2014 with the red bus promises the vow promises and then the disgraceful behaviour of English Westminster MP,s towards the SNP MP,s and Theresa May telling Scotland now is not the time and Theresa May getting to her feet and walking out every time an SNP MP stands up to speak I mean how many insults do you wish to take Scotland ?

And yet, there are still lots of people who will not vote for Scottish independence
The point is proven that you can never ever change the mind of some folk

History shows it
Not just here but across the planet
People tie allegiance to losers, to those who actually harm them

There is no benefit in delaying separation

I really wish SNP would announce it at this conference this weekend

Now is the time

Let’s do it

The YES/NO Indy Polls are contaminated. The Pollsters are paid to use the Polls to manipulate the results. Gerrymandering. Especially in tight margins. They are used by Hedge Funds to make more money.

The Pollster companies are run by crooks and illegal operators. The commit illegal activities and have been censored and fined many times to no avail. They can make more monies than that breaking the Law with impunity. With 10 Downing Street support. They are in in it. The Pollsters agents get wel remunerated posts there to manipulate the result. Illegality at the heart of government. Thieving hands and manipulation at work, by all reports. A total illegal conspiracy to manipulate the result.

No respect for Purdah period breaking the Law. Just like the indyref. So many fake hands of self interest at work. Illegal outside influence. It was supposed to be for the people in Scotland to decide. No chance. The fake vow totally illegal but helped the funds management results. To illegally defraud the people in Scotland again, of their rights.

Even illegally gained International pressure. The Iraq war another fool hardy example. Thieving Cameron purring to line his pockets. The Brexit intent imbecile. Now long gone but the chaos lingers on. Costing £Billions and impoverishing people. Not him. Still with his nose troughing in ill gotten gains of public money. The shameful, useless pig abuser. Still at it like a legacy of Tory corruption. Not supported in Britain or Internationally.

Including the bookies results. Totally manipulated to defraud the punters. Not a game of chance but sheer manipulation. That’s why the bookies always win. Deceiving the population on the odds. Not even. A bet for a laugh but it can destroy too many lives if they get hooked on the game of chance. It should be more evenly controlled not to make a government ill gotten gains. It is not worth it, for the misery it can cause. Sucking up other resources. It is not worth it at all.

Just like the vows not worth the paper it is written on. Before the ink? is dry renegaded upon. Classic Westminster unionist non gamesmanship. Classic political lies. Lie, after lie, after lie. Liars always get found out. The Press want to lie as well. Not brought to book but losing support big time.

Thank goodness for the Internet and Rev Stu. Despite the grumbles or fake action. Still thanks a billion. Bringing fake political liars to book. At least some of them will have second thoughts before they lie again and again. Well worth the Rev’s action on so many fronts. Thanks again to the site keeping people sane. Plus the covered publicity. Hold the fort. Good and strong.

People of conviction will return and more will come on board. A game of chance and opportunity, outlined. Just like before good and true. What’s got into some people. Keep the faith and have patience. Everything will turn out good as gold. Just convince one other. Job done.

Do not forget Margo’s, the great patriot, words still rings true. Like so many others who did not survive to see the endgame but whose spirit is still there. In rememberance. They will be celebrated like so many others. Respect.is always due. Once it comes YES and everyone is greeting for various reasons. Not for failure this time. The IndyRef be held when it can be won. The best time possible in the schedule.

Polls are overrated especially in tight margins. That is why they are often wrong. Unexpected results. Double whammy of calamity. ‘Oh what hapoened’. Then the pathetic excuses.. TV jargon nonsense. Ringing of hands etc. The public monies waste on it. £3.7Billion for the BBC. Half spent, frivolously, on land estate revenues. Building up a overrated colossal unneccessary empire of neglect and misinformation. The public supposed to be the stakeholders, ignored.There are far better less biased news outlooks out there. With good supported research, for a dime. Out doing Official sites. The mavericks more confident of the truth.

The SNP are flying high. Outpacing by all accounts. Long may it continue. Along with May’s demise to oblivion. People are not fools. They can see their standard of living and livelihoods threatened. Along with their children’s, family’s future, by colossal Westminster union mismanagement, by epic proportion. With as extended web, internet, e-mail cover support will increase. Nae bother.

The IndyRef will be decided by the 25% (a 1/4) of people who never vote, regularly or not at all. They are not polled constituently. Off the radar of regular political discourse. The Pollster often manipulating the result with illegal means. Against data protection control. Trolling people. Cambridge Analythica etc still unpunished for massive data breaches by right wing agitators. Protected by the Tories. Along with MSM non Dom tax evading criminals. Supported by the corrupt Westminster Gov.

With this morning’s YouGov poll, putting Yes and No neck-and-neck on Independence, I can see one or two of the Yoon press’s Sunday columnists being asked to do a hurried re-write, pointing-out the error of independence, and going doubly hard on SNP Baad.

They must be shitting themselves now, look out for ever-more outlandish threats against an Independent Scotland.

They know they are losing, and losing big time.

The Yougov poll in ‘The Times’ was commissioned to hopefully produce a spoiler to the SNP for this weekend’s conference. The results were not what the paper had hoped for. The life-jacket/parachute in the cartoon is being put on.

Sorry o/t but got a couple of questions here.

Re the eu elex 23rd May, is it going to be a list of candidates as in an LA election where you look for the most pro indy and vote for them? Or is it votes for a particular party or what? Got the polling card but never seen a list of candidates, if there is one. Never voted in an EU election before. I’m in Glasgow north Maryhill & Springburn.

Also about the National’s recent billboard campaign where they’ve highlighted a screenshot of a tweet or something from BT in 2014 where it says the best way to lose EU membership is to vote Yes. Does anyone know if that was just a one off with one billboard in one location for a day or two or was it in more locations throughout the country and staying up for longer? I don’t know specifically who at the National to ask so asking here.

Opinion polls in newspapers are designed to influence the reader, not to inform them.

Any political party will use private polling and not rely on the public polls.

I’ll repeat what I’ve said before, IMO the public aren’t ready yet.

I hope I’m wrong.

Did John Bull get an uncomplimentary bag of nuts (i.e. the Scottish Tory MPs) to go with his in flight drink?

Footsoldier – SNP on fb have a link the conference live

Answer for you @JMD says at 9:55 am

EU Elections are via “a simple system in which every elector just casts a single vote for a single party, and in which seats are allocated in proportion to the share of the vote each party receives.”

Scotland is one EU voting ‘constituency’ returning 6 MEPs (incidentally if Scotland was Independent in the EU we’d get 13 MEPs!)

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

So if you want an majority of SNP MEPs vote SNP.

SNP may also return 4 of Scotlands 6 MEPs.

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

That would be a great answer to the “…No Appetite for , Polls show no change…” Brigade, “Now is not the time” Westminster and as a clear signal to the EU that The Sovereign People of Scotlands vote to remain EU Citizens in 2016 is still as strong (if not stronger) in 2019.

great poll for us,

44% Yes
45% No
10% DK
1% Refused

interestingly, it looks like the dk’s are mainly previous no voters

OT., but it shows you what kind of country we are living in when Julian Assange is in jail for telling the truth and exposing all,the lies about British and American torture etc.,and Tony Blair A., Campbell Jack Straw and the rest are still free to walk the streets,when their lies caused the deaths of thousands and to add to the insult they have the cheek to come on the air and msm and tell us their opinions all proven liars who should be in jail for mass murder this is the world we live in God help us

Cheers Capella

The livestream has stopped for lunch but is scheduled to start again at 2.00pm with John Swinney’s speech:

link to youtube.com

What is a scandal is that the BBC, the state broadcaster, is not showing the SNP Conference live. Not even the supposedly dedicated TV channel, BBC Scotland, which is broadcasting the usual drivel.

Now that is a good cartoon.

Hey, mibbies the lever we had from THIS ONE…

link to wingsoverscotland.com

When applied allowed us to OPEN the exit door(s) to freedom

All that’s left to do NOW is 2 get off ah their crazy plane
It’s all starting again 🙂

link to indiegogo.com

Ginger dug branching out. Excellent.

@ Cappella 1.29

We were about to go out for a quick visit to shops. Dog had already had a good walk and swim at the beach and rather than leave him in a hot car in the sun we closed the blind and put telly on for some background noise.

Flicking channels through the usual Sat sport crap and came to BBC Scotland.

Their alternative to sport? You might think at least a snippet from Conf. but no, Lizzie’s Coronation! The Coronation ffs! Back home and we now have some rich brat house porn. Channel is a joke and deliberately trolling Scotland

That plane does not look very strong and stable. But the unionist passengers will prefer it because jumping out the plane is so uncertain! Crashing to the ground and burning in a ball of fire, now that’s the kind of status quo certainty they can get behind.

@ Frogesque says at 3:49 pm ….”We were about to go out for a quick visit to shops. Dog had already had a good walk and swim at the beach and rather than leave him in a hot car in the sun we closed the blind and put telly on for some background noise. Flicking channels through the usual Sat sport crap and came to BBC Scotland. Their alternative to sport? You might think at least a snippet from Conf. but no, Lizzie’s Coronation! The Coronation ffs!”

Frogesque, you better watch you don’t get done for cruelty to animals, lol.

Scottish Steve @3.56pm

As the plane is falling, the passengers can be heard reassuring one another with the comforting thought that, ” We are ok so far. Haven’t hit the ground yet. Best bet would be to wait until impact and spread ourselves over as wide an area as possible in many pieces. Then we can panic.”

Re comments on previous thread – there’s no shame in getting scunnered. Fuck knows, there’s plenty to get scunnered about, eh?

I’m not the only one who has all-but stopped commenting here, but that has nothing to do with personal commitment to indy.

Some have more resilience than others. Knowing when to drop out and take a wee breather is important. If a few of us happen to do so at the same time, so what?

And there endeth the sermon…

🙂

Don’t know about anyone else but we just got our voting cards in for the EU elections,has May given up on getting her deal through before then??

Ian Brotherhood says:
And there endeth the sermon…

————————-

amen
🙂

Anyone on here complaining about BBC Shortbread.
STOP PAYING THE FUC*ING LICENCE.

The Rev tweets:-

“There are way, way, way too many Yes folk acting like unthinking Corbyn-cultists this week. “Have faith in the infallible Divine Leader!” is not a rational position.

It sometimes feels that in the last few weeks our Wings ‘Divine Leader’may, also, no longer be his infallible self? It seems the SNP have really upset him since the court case, and so he’s having a go at those of us who still believe Nicola knows what she’s doing.

@Gary45% : 5.52

Haven’t paid for over 20 Yeats at my flat but significant other likes he soaps and will soon be 75. She’s changed from NO to YES and I’m not about to upset her. Lol.

Totally get where you are coming from though.

@ Gary 45% – like frogesque, I haven’t paid a licence fee for decades and don’t watch BBC except to visit the website and check out what they are up to. I sometimes listen to the radio for similar reasons. There is very little of interest being broadcast anyway. But Netflix, sooner or later, will stream anything worth catching up with.

Nevertheless, since the BBC is given oodles of public money, paid for by our taxes, I’m angry about the fact that we are deprived of a decent broadcasting service which leaves us poorer than every other small country in the world.

I regard it as a human right i.e. to have the ability to reflect back our everyday lived experience to ourselves. We are suffering a form of sensory deprivation. Scotland pays £320 m a year in licence fees to be bombarded by anti Scottish propaganda and the everyday concerns of another country.

We are further deprived of the technical skills, technology and capacity to use broadcasting services. There are flown up from London on the odd occasion they are required. Then they fly back down again. It is a truly pathetic state of affairs.

Thank you Chris Cairns, your cartoons nearly always make me smile 🙂 (some are a bit gruseome and frankly scary!)

I love that Hamish is calm… but determined =) (hmmm reminds me of someone…)

Bit worrying seeing the rush of flames coming from the stricken engine right across the escape route! I’m guessing we need to dive below that threat and once well away from danger, woosh upwards as the parachute opens!

And then the wild blue yonder beckons 🙂

With our own St Andrew’s cross blasoned across!

(I do hope daft old John Bull puts down the free drinks and nuts and dons a parachute too before all is lost)

Yesindyref2 @ 5.30 pm

Yes! I like that 🙂

sassenach
Are you not concerned the the senior ranks of the SNP appear to have bought into believing it possible to change sex? No leadership is infallible, IMHO.

I hope you’ve all had a great day and go onto have a fantastic party tonight.

‘Stornoway set to join the Yes movement with first indy march and rally.’

link to thenational.scot

‘Outer Hebrides (Stornoway) March’.

link to youtube.com

Gary Another poll from Survation last week had Yes to leaving the UK on just 36%, it depends on the question asked

link to twitter.com

@call me dave / Ghillie
Yes it is, it’s perfect. Some want it on day 1, some want sterlingisation, I want both in parallel. All of us should be happy with that, as with the preparations starting after a YES vote, it can go whichever way is decided then, not before. If the pound slides as people think with Brexit, then perhaps no way with that!

Meanwhile the SNp can proceed with the SGC as the front and centre plan, and those who don’t like it can say “Yes, this is the current plan, but it could change before Independence Day if neccessary, this would be my preference.”. Perfect. I’m so happy 🙂

@cirsium
I’m not an SNP member, but if I was and a delegate and had properly understood the Brown / Mackay amendment, presuming that’s the D option, I’d have voted against A, B and C but for D, same as most other people – and the result.

flexielasticystretchheeee indeed!

Well the BBC Scotland channel transmits 5 hours of Scottish content and 7 hours of London content daily (not the HD version as it has to wait for the kiddies to go to bed), maybe it’s just misnamed.

It’s basically BBC Two London with a few hours of opt-outs, mostly repeats or stuff that is going to be on BBC One Scot within a few days so they can say it is new content or a news programme that only news nerds are going to watch at 9:00pm.

Not even sure of the point of having a copy of BBC Two for the 7 hours, it’s already exists, why would I bother watching it on BBC Scotland. It is only so it can transmit FMQ’s on a Thurs, otherwise it is a pointless exercise.

If they transmitted the news at 10pm rather than 9pm I might give it a look rather than watching BBC One News (it rarely changes much compared to the one at six), but at 9 there is no chance.

@Cubby
Seriously an excellent idea for Rev’s next poll.

“Do you believe Better Together lied in the first Indy Ref?”

“Do you believe the NO campaign will lie in this Indy Ref?”

Rev and The National to plaster the results all over the place.

Could the reason why there is BBC Scotland channel now is because some time in the near future Broadcasting will be devolved to Scotland?

LOL

Robert Peffers would be delighted. Someone proposed it, someone seconded it, the Branch debated it, passed the Amendment. It was selected for the Conference, debated, members voted on it, a close count I believe, and it became part of the motion which was passed unanimously.

SNP democracy for you, which may just have won Indy Ref 2 for us.

CameronB Brodie @6-54

Not really understanding your comment about changing sex in relation to what I said, @ 6-08pm, about still thinking Nicola is our best bet for Indy at the present time ( based on personal contact and knowledge of her).

Do you agree that the SNP are the only party able to deliver Indy, as things stand? That’s why any future donations ( and votes) of mine will be going only to the SNP

And I’m long past the age of caring about sex changes, anyway!!

I’m glad the First Minister appears to recognise that Westminster does not deal in good faith with Scotland. I am also glad that her god-faith building exercise, appears to be going well with previous No voters.

How to Negotiate in Good Faith
link to pon.harvard.edu

sassenach
Sorry, it was the quote you were commenting on, that I was commenting on. As well as yours, I suppose.

Changing sex is impossible, yet it appears the cabinet is split over the matter. As such, it appears half the cabinet have bought into the reactionary pseudoscience of gender-ideology, as pernicious a cult as any. The SNP leadership are not divine and are not beyond criticism, is what I’m saying.

I’m not on Twitter or Facebook (like lots of others)and cannot get the conference live anywhere else. So it’s back to the BBC to find out what’s gong on.

Yesindyref2 Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question. The 2014 question was only agreed after Cameron and Salmond met at St Andrews House and signed it off in 2012.

Last time I checked even the 49% for Yes (44% including Don’t Knows) with YouGov was still under 50%.

Technically speaking Britnats are liars and that includes you HYFUD.

@yesindyref2 says: 27 April, 2019 at 8:20 pm:

” … Robert Peffers would be delighted. Someone proposed it, someone seconded it, the Branch debated it, passed the Amendment. It was selected for the Conference, debated, members voted on it, a close count I believe, and it became part of the motion which was passed unanimously.
SNP democracy for you, which may just have won Indy Ref 2 for us.”

Why would I be any more delighted by that than any other SNP conference vote, yesindyref2?

It is, after all how the SNP conferences have always worked?

As it happens I’ll wait to see how it pans out but if, as I suspect, the rank and file are pushing for a different currency than the Pound Sterling for no other reason than because they are under the impression, as so many Wingers also seem to be, that the Pound Sterling belongs exclusively to England and that England also owns the Bank of England then this octogenarian who has never voted other than SNP may not vote for them again.

Mind you I will vote for independence and to remain in Europe and will not vote for any other party. I’ll just not bother voting for MPs, MSPs or Councillors.

If, as I suspect, the rank & file have voted for all the wrong reasons then I’m out. Are they confusing the use of Sterling with being tied to the English pound is the question I now ask myself?

All modern currencies use the base 10. So, no matter what you care to call them, they have the basic note divided by 100. A pound composed of 100 pence or a dollar composed of 100 cents and so on. Provided the notes and coins are distinctive there is no problem and the name is irrelevant.

The real problem is whether your own currency is tied to another currency or not and thus if the currency you are tied to has control over your currency or you have control over theirs.

In the case of the United Kingdom the existing arrangement is that both Kingdoms in the union share a common central bank but legally that bank does not belong only to the Kingdom of England and that I fear is the fallacy that saw that vote in conference today.

I actually correctly saw this coming and posted upthread the part of the McCrone Report that frightened the shit out of Westminster and saw them hide the facts for decades. What it basically said was that after independence it would be the Scottish pound dictating the value of the English pound not as so many Scots seem absolutely convinced that the Bank of England is exclusively English and that the pound English would regulate the pound Scottish.

If that is the case then all that setting up different notes and coins and calling them other that pounds would do would be to cost Scotland a great deal of money to no effect. For the problem is not, notes and coins or what you call them but if you tie your new currency to another country’s currency that is stronger than your own.

Obviously neither McCrone or successive Westminster governments thought that an English currency would be stronger than a Scottish oil & gas led Scottish pound and it put the fear of death into them.

Incidentally I cannot remember how or where I got the information about the McCrone Report but I certainly knew what it contained even if I didn’t know it was called the McCrone Report. I can only assume I got the information such a document existed via someone in the SNP.

@HYUFD says: 27 April, 2019 at 9:17 pm:

” … Yesindyref2 Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question.”

Absolute twaddle, HYUFD. What you describe is actually what the Section 30 order really was. It was an agreement between Salmond and Cameron that both sides would abide by what they agreed and as to what the question asked was to be.

It held good for that agreement only and was not a law, a permission by Westminster or a template for any other referendum or plebiscite.

Furthermore it had ne relevance as to being a once in a generation thing. Laughably I read last week some idiotic Britnat , (cough!), journalist claiming that it was Nicola Sturgeon who made that throwaway remark. It was Salmond who said it and it was not only after the event but was stated as being only Salmond’s personal opinion.

Cubby
Though the British nationalist narrative is clearly skewed and dishonest, I don’t think it clever to assume all who view the world this way are automatically dishonest. This is their perception of reality which is truly held, in most cases anyway. They are true nationalists. It is not there fault their heads are full of mince, but full of mince they are.

You are unlikely to convert such a mindset and given they only represent about 20% of the electorate, at most, is it worth the effort of trying? 😉

Cognitive neuroscience of honesty and deception: A signaling framework

Abstract

Understanding the neural basis of human honesty and deception has enormous potential scientific and practical value. However, past approaches, largely developed out of studies with forensic applications in mind, are increasingly recognized as having serious methodological and conceptual shortcomings. Here we propose to address these challenges by drawing on so-called signaling games widely used in game theory and ethology to study behavioral and evolutionary consequences of information transmission and distortion.

In particular, by separating and capturing distinct adaptive problems facing signal senders and receivers, signaling games provide a framework to organize the complex set of cognitive processes associated with honest and deceptive behavior. Furthermore, this framework provides novel insights into feasibility and practical challenges of neuroimaging-based lie detection.

link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Re currency.
There is certainly no need to change the name when we have our own currency. Scottish pound will do just fine and it will save a lot of confusion for the less aware.
Plenty of countries use the same names for their currencies. For example a dollar is used by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA, Hong Kong, and Singapore. All different values but all accepted as stable money.
It doesn’t matter what it is called as long as the markets trust it.

@HYFUD “Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question. The 2014 question was only agreed after Cameron and Salmond met at St Andrews House and signed it off in 2012.”

No you dick, and that was the Edinburgh Agreement you’re talkng about, hence the term “Edinburgh Agreement”, it was in Edinburgh. Here it is:

link to www2.gov.scot

Why don’t you ever do research before being wrong?

Here’s the operative bit:

“The wording of the question will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine …”

And the Edinburgh Agreement is NOT the Section 30 Order – THAT is a change to the Scotland Act.

Robert Peffers, Yesindyref2 The agreement made at St Andrews House in Edinburgh followed months of negotiations between the UK and Scottish government, including on what the question would be. The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum

CameronB Brodie@10.36pm

Cameron. I have previously described how I see the Britnat pyramid of lies. The Britnats at the top of the pyramid who tell the lies to the rest below. The next layer below who know they are lies but are happy to accept the lies and pass them on as truths. Then the final layer of Britnats who have no idea they are being told lies.

The final layer are those who, in your words, “heads are full of mince”. Sorry but don’t agree they have no responsibility for ensuring their head is not full of mince/lies.

Also not trying to convert them. I am not a minister. Just a disgusted observer.

@Robert Peffers
“As it happens I’ll wait to see how it pans out but if, as I suspect, the rank and file are pushing for a different currency than the Pound Sterling for no other reason than because they are under the impression, as so many Wingers also seem to be, that the Pound Sterling belongs exclusively to England and that England also owns the Bank of England then this octogenarian who has never voted other than SNP may not vote for them again.”

Don’t be like that Robert, you’ve been your life in the SNP and probably won many battles. Perhaps the SNP would have not been as good a party as it is without you.

After Independence, whatever else is negotitated, buildings remain where they are as do all fixed assets, it’s movable assets get shared and movedif neccessary and agreed. A value could be apportioned, so for instance, the actual value of the Old Lady of Threadneedle street could be shared, but the building wouldn’t be taken apart and shared out brick by brick. Same goes for buildings in Scotland that are owned by the UK. This is according to the Vienna Convention on the succession of State Property which would be observed in at least detail parts as it makes life easier – whatever the actual status of the negotiations.

The rUK is unlikely to change the use of the Old Lady, so it would remain the Bank of England. Its reserves would be shared out, and if it has any interesting and valuable paintings as it probably does, their value apportioned the same. But it’s likely the rUK would also use it to control their currency, let’s call it the rUK pound.

Scotland would then set up our own central bank in Glasgow [1], Exchange Square and it would administer our curency.

The thing is this, if we have a new currency (perhaps with our old banknotes changed from promissory notes as legal currency, to actual legal tender), it has no connection to the rUK £, except perhaps by being pegged to it. The rUK has no control over this process, they can sit and twiddle their thumbs for all the good it would do them. The BoE would almost certainly buy Scots £, that’s what Centrtal Banks do – the cover transactions that take place in their country in foreign notes etc. to procide liquidity to their own businesses and people.

Or we continue to use sterling, a currency we jointly own as you say, and as Sturgeon & Co say. We do jointly own it, and in theory we can hold out in negotiations for it being split. Indeed, during Indy Ref 1 I wanted it valued as effectively a brand, and if we were “denied” a currency union as part of the nIndependence agreement between rScotland and the rUK, we’d get a share of the value. NIESR did consider its value as a brand and decided there was none. So the Internationally traded £ is worthless, except as a note that exchanges with other notes or gold. I don’t think so, it brings status to the UK.

But realistically our sharing the currency will be traded off for something else, sharing it after Independence really would not work at all, Scotland and the rUK would be pursuing different fiscal policies. So either we get it, or they do, and personally I’d prefer they get it. I don’t want UK sterling as our own currency, though “sterlingisation” is OK short-term to make it easier for those who can’t be bothered finding out how banks work and how to transfer their savings – and mortgages. In any case you’d want a transition time. Imagine if we got sterling as our own – and the rUK with 10 times the population sterlingised on us. It would be a disaster.

So, Robert, as long as we have able negotitators, Scotland WILL extract value in the aagreement between Scotland and the rest of the Untied Kingdom whatever it wants to call itsef like EWNI, probably just as they will extract value to allow the rUK, including HIFUD, to continue to call themselves the UK.

Personally I don’t want Scotland to continue to be called the UK, don’t know about anyone else, but it’s worth £££££££ billions. Probably – by agreement all of what would be our share of the UK national debt.

Show me the money, baby. And take your UK and sterling and do something with it.

[1] I’m a west coaster, of courses it’s Glasgow not Edinburgh

@HYFUD “Robert Peffers, Yesindyref2 The agreement made at St Andrews House in Edinburgh followed months of negotiations between the UK and Scottish government, including on what the question would be. The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum”

No it fucking didn’t, you’ve just been told that and given a fucking link to check it out yourself.

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it’s still a lie.

The proff you’re a pudding is in the link I gave, here it is again in case you’re even incapable of findong that posting again:

link to www2.gov.scot

Try reading it instead of vomiting a load of shite.

What I posted was entirely correct. There were months of negotiations on the question, including whether to have a 2 part question with a second on devomax which Cameron ultimately got dropped, before the power was handed over to the Scottish government to put the final single question into law

OT Just read something interesting over on Craig Murray’s latest post on why no Swedish warrant for Julian Assange.
Comment by Sharp Ears:

‘Today we are all Julian Assange because if they can crucify Julian Assange they can crucify any one of us. Like Julian, we are not simply guilty of being journalists. We are guilty of being members of the Fifth and final Estate. We are guilty of being truth tellers, untethered to the multinational life-support-system of big business and bigger government. We are guilty of colluding with one another across their manufactured borders dividing us into left and right. We are guilty of spitting out the poison of the propaganda that once passed for journalism in this country. We are guilty of betraying their shallow patriotism in the name of truth. We are guilty as charged and we are aggressively unapologetic for our crimes.

We are all Julian Assange. We are all Chelsea Manning. We are all Reality Winner. We are all Edward Snowden, Glen Greenwald, Ross Ulbricht, Cody Wilson, Jeremy Scahill, Peter Van Buren and Laura Poitras. We are the charred, writhing, screaming corpses of the earth. We are the children you left home alone while you went out starting fires in the Middle East and we found the loaded .45 you keep under the bed. We are the Fifth ####ing Estate. We are pissed off and we are not going away.

When you crucify one of us, you crucify all of us. I hope you brought a lot of nails. We will make things ugly for you and that’s a promise I aim to keep. You want a war? You got one. Bring your guns, hell, bring your goddamn atom bombs. I will outfox them all with my blog. My keyboard is one weapon of mass destruction you don’t have to fabricate. This isn’t over. Not by a long shot. ‘

April 26, 2019
We Are All Julian Assange!: An Anarchist Soliloquy
by Nicky Reid
link to counterpunch.org

BTW you can watch “The Fifth Estate” on Amazon Prime. It will cost £3.50 to rent. But it’s worth it. Benedict Cumberbatch plays Julian Assange and he is absolutely brilliant in the role. A great actor.

@HYUFD
Which isn’t what you said first, now is it? Here it is for those unable to follow your writhing and slithing in an attempt to escape the consequences of your lies:

1). “Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question.”

WRONG

2). “including on what the question would be.”

WRONG

“The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum”

WRONG, and in your wet dreams, pal!

@Cubby
Sadly I think it’s all 3 options. but option 1 means he fails to recognise the total abject miserable debilitating contemptible failure of option 3 beacuse of option 2.

HYUFD
For an educated chap, your ethical reasoning appears to be unhealthily utilitarian in nature, so here’s some moral philosophy to get your head around, Toryboy.

Kierkegaard from the point of view of the political

Choosing to become what we are: selfhood and despair

….Whilst the concern with selfhood links Kierkegaard to some of the wider currents of philosophical speculation we can identify three distinctive aspects of selfhood which help to differentiate Kierkegaard’s account from that of other thinkers. First, selfhood is not simply a matter for philosophical speculation.14 For Kierkegaard, selfhood must be understood (or more correctly apprehended) existentially. Second, selfhood must be understood as a religious category. That is to say, Kierkegaard situates his notion of the self as a spiritual entity in relation to God. Finally, Kierkegaard understands selfhood not to be a passive phenomena or process, but a task.

In Kierkegaard’s account, it is the task of every human being to actively attempt to become an individual self. In other words, it is the task of every human being to attempt to stand in correct relation with God. Such a relationship is characterised as faith. It is the failure of the self to relate in the correct way to God (and from this point to others) which is the manifestation of despair.

When considering Kierkegaard’s treatment of selfhood and despair we can profit by turning our attention to the account offered by Kierkegaard’s pseudonym Anti- Climacus in his book of 1849, The Sickness Unto Death.15 Sickness opens with two deceptively simple statements. They both develop what it means to be a human being. We are told that a human being is spirit, and that spirit is self. Anti-Climacus then produces what must surely be one of the most notorious formulations in the whole of the Kierkegaardian corpus:

The self is a relation that relates itself to itself or is the relation’s relating itself to itself in the relation; the self is not the relation but the relation’s relating itself to itself.16

However for Anti-Climacus this is not the complete story. He also introduces in this initial passage the notion of ‘despair’ which he characterises as a ‘misrelation’. This misrelation can occur because the self, in relating itself to itself, must have either established itself, or have been established by another. Anti-Climacus claims that in the human case the self has been established by another power, and so in order to avoid misrelation, the self must also relate in the correct way to this other. The other in question is God. Therefore, Anti-Climacus concludes his opening passage by writing:

The formula that describes the state of self when despair is completely rooted out is this: in relating itself to itself and in willing to be itself, the self rests transparently in the power that established it.17

What this formula, and the passages that follow it amount to is the general claim that the self is a synthesis of opposites which is self-relating, but (correctly understood) dependent on its relation to God.18 If the self is related in the correct way to the ‘power that established it’ it is truly a self, and this is a relation of faith.19

If however the self fails to do this it is in despair, or ‘sin’. Thus, under the pen of Anti-Climacus, we are offered an account of selfhood which is both existential, religious, and relational. The self is existential and not simply a philosophical category as it is the lived experience of individuals. The self should be understood religiously as it is the spiritual aspect of selfhood which makes the individual more than simply physical and psychical and raises the human above the animal.

Although individuals might live their lives as if they were conditioned by the circumstances around them, in fact human beings also have freedom.20 Correctly employed this freedom is what enables humans to make the ethical and more importantly religious choice to live a spiritual existence: that is by relating to God.21

Finally, selfhood is relational as true selfhood is dependent upon another power which constitutes it. In this respect, the human self can relate to any manner of ideas, ideals, projects or persons.22 However, for Anti-Climacus, as the human self is dependent on God, the only way to truly become a self is in seeking a relationship with God.23

link to sorenkierkegaard.nl

P.S. I’m not trying to force religion on anyone, I’m not religious myself. I’m simply pointing to a particular perspective that might help understand how British nationalism impinges on the Scottish identity.

re polls:

It’s true that polling companies don’t poll those who don’t vote, take drugs, etc etc, but this isn’t the point of polls.

The important thing is to view them as a whole rather than one at a time.

If a polling company has a list of people in Scotland who have agreed to answer questions related to voting intentions, it’s the trend over a period of time, that gives a picture of how people are feeling about politics in Scotland.

If the results show a like for like increase for Yes, as this Times commissioned poll does, then the trend is towards Yes, which should be great news.

However we then have to ask the next question, which is:

Is this trend likely to continue?

Will more people switch from No to Yes or No to Don’t know then Yes etc.

Make no mistake the yoons will be crapping themselves when they see this poll and ask themselves the question I pose above.

This ‘trend’ will indeed continue, and with Yes only needing a 1% swing to draw level in the polls, then you can safely assume we are beginning to build the thing that Yoons fear most…

Momentum!

@Petra
“when we set up our Hall of Shame”

Personally I wouldn’t want that at all. It could and would be in history books, even in museums, but not “mainstream”. I want a positive iScotland, not one looking back at grievances.

“If they think that they’re going to get away with this they’ve got another think coming.”

Same as above, who would really care? We’ll be too busy builidng the Scotland we want, one which engages eagerly with the rest of the world and seeks to change things for the better both at home, and abroad.

Confucius he say: “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves”.

Yes we’re all looking forward to a positive future YesIndref2, a fresh start, but that doesn’t mean that we should go forward by just forgetting the past. More than anything the people of Scotland deserve to be informed. Informed as to why, how and by whom, they have been subjugated for centuries now. How they were manipulated and brainwashed.

Confucius says …

Forget about Confucious and Google “our past history informs our present. We can learn from past mistakes” and so on.

It wouldn’t be our focus, far from it, but something that would / should be dealt with through exposing these people in documentaries, books and so on. Not necessarily mainstream and not due to being revengeful either. More a case of enlightenment for the masses plus sending out a warning to future “journalists” that an Independent Scotland won’t put up with any form of propaganda.

The “social self” does carry a lot of historical baggage, whatever culture you care to look at. History is a lattice-work of ‘conspiracies’ and politics and stuff. British culture has simply been unable to transcend its’ colonial baggage, and now we face the cultural shame of the full-English Brexit.

Self-Determination Theory and the
Facilitation of Intrinsic Motivation, Social Development, and Well-Being

Human beings can be proactive and engaged or, alternatively,
passive and alienated, largely as a function of the social conditions in which they develop and function. Accordingly,
research guided by self-determination theory has focused on the social-contextual conditions that facilitate versus forestall the natural processes of self-motivation and healthy psychological development. Specifically,
factors have been examined that enhance versus undermine
intrinsic motivation, self-regulation, and well-being.

The findings have led to the postulate of three innate psychological needs-competence, autonomy, and relatedness-
which when satisfied yield enhanced self-motivation and mental health and when thwarted lead to diminished motivation
and well-being. Also considered is the significance
of these psychological needs and processes within domains
such as health care, education, work, sport, religion, and
psychotherapy.
link to selfdeterminationtheory.org

It is a good time to be alive, Scotland is about to regain its freedom and the majority of Scots will vote for freedom and Scotland will revert back to being a normal country again.
The momentum for freedom is building and the the yoons are shitting themselves.

OT but I have had trouble getting on to the site . Eventually went into Twitter and picked up with this cartoon.

When I try to refresh the page I get a ‘can’t securely connect….’

Worried!

link to snp.org

link to blogs.bmj.com

link to bylinetimes.com

link to barrheadboy.com

DWP Carers Allowance ‘crackdown’ will harm thousands – who save the government BILLIONS
link to archive.fo

Home Office investigated over English test cheating claims
link to archive.fo

link to blogs.lse.ac.uk

link to rte.ie

To Robert puffers…
I disagree with you.

I agree with you that England don’t own the pound or the Bank of England but that is not the point.
The point is who controls it.
England controls Westminster
England controls the Bank of England
Scotland has zero control over what Westminster does
Scotland has zero control of what the Bank of England does

Because of this Scotland has zero control of its economy

Therefore it serves no purpose in the discussion to pick up on people who say the Bank of England and the pound is owned by England ,nitpicking the point they are making about Scotland having zero control goes against the grain.
We are all supporters of Scottish independence let’s not have an internal competition on who is the most ardent independence supporter or the most knowledgable

I am not a twitter person so forgive me posting this on here.

Do those pea brained idiots waving an anti English banner at the Conference not realise how much damage they are causing the SNP.
[Perhaps they are Unionist plants in which case we have allowed them to score valuable points]

I know at least five English folk in my small village neighbourhood who are strong independent supporters.

As much as I want to be out of the UK, I can’t understand why the SNP would go to the trouble of legislating for another referendum and then get no further forward with that when T May or Johnson or whoever says “No” or even “Now is not the time”.

Would SNP really then instigate a Court case to get a decision on whether Scotland has the right to hold a referendum. That could take months or even years if they do what the regime usually does which is to kick the can down the road and just keep kicking it.

Why expend all that energy when the next Holyrood election will be in May 2021.

Is anyone else as puzzled as I am with this strategy?

Patrick Roden…

pollsters have a database of people polled which is many times the size of the number they poll .

each time carry out a poll they choose from their database who will be in this batch
They can also choose who will not be polled

it’s very easy for them to predict who in their database continually gives the same answer and who is likely to change from time to time.

It is also very easy for the pollsters to pick out a batch for polling that continually gives the same answer

Pollsters employ statisticians too
Their job is to compile statistics showing who is polled , what their answers are ,if they ever change their answers , if they never ever change their answers etc etc

It’s very very easy then to look at the statistics and choose a batch of people from the database knowing in all likelihood what the answer to the question is going to be from those people

polling is corrupt it’s propoganda it is targeted to get predetermined answers to a particular question

@yesindyref2 says:28 April, 2019 at 12:00 am:

” … After Independence, whatever else is negotitated, buildings remain where they are as do all fixed assets, it’s movable assets get shared and movedif neccessary and agreed.

You have just demonstrated exactly why I now have my reservations about voting SNP MPs, MSPs and councillors into office as doing so would be following the really stupid rank & file SNP voters. Let me point out some of that in your reply.

You imagine that the Bank of England is an old building in the Independent City of London. This, “City of London”, is rather different from London the city. It not only has its own Mayor and council and runs itself but it has a person who sits close to, but physically higher, than the Speaker of the house of Commons and is never mentioned in commons reports. He is, “The Remembrancer”, and is not elected by the people but is from, “The City”:-

link to fromtone.com

Go read that cite to the link and you will read that the United Kingdom Parliament has no authority over, “The City of London”, but the City of London had some form of, never mentioned, authority over the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

So there you go – the Bank of England is now an, “Arms Length”, company that had remained a private company until 1946 when the United Kingdom Government nationalised it but allowed it to remain autonomous. The Bank of England is not an old building in the old walled, “City of London”, it is a company owned by the United Kingdom Government and when Scotland becomes independent Scotland owns part of that company.

The rest of your comment is riddled with fallacies like there being an rUnited Kingdom – there cannot legally remain any kind of rUnited Kingdom because the United Kingdom, as formed by the Treaty of Union only has two partner kingdoms and when the Kingdom of Scotland disunites the United Kingdom what remains is the independent Kingdom of Scotland and the independent Kingdom of England. Furthermore the Westminster Parliament, being legally The Parliament of the United Kingdom is not the legally elected Parliament of England and as there is no legally elected Parliament of England The United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster ceases to exist.

Legally, under English law, The Queen of England is legally sovereign, and thus does as monarchs of England have always done, commands Their Majesty’s choice of Her Majesty’s Prime Minister to her presence and commands that person to Form Her Majesty’s Government of England. The office of Prime Minister is legally an Officer of the Monarchy not legally appointed by the parliament but chosen by the monarch.

So you really are basing your ideas of what the Bank of England, the Pound Sterling, the Westminster United Kingdom Parliament, and so on, upon myths and legally untrue ideas.

Now here is a few other little flies in your notions. Upon independence not only can Scotland demand seats on the board of the Bank of England to which Scotland will then be part owner but Scotland can, as it says on those special high value Bank Notes that Scottish Banks have deposited with the Bank of England, On demand at the head office, (The Old Lady of Threadneedle Street), the entire value of all Scottish bank notes in circulation. Now in what currency will the Bank of England have to pay those deposited value Scots banknotes?

Here’s another wee fly in your ointment. Scotland also owns part of the Royal Mint and just where is this NEW currency of Scotland going to get it’s new coinage struck and it’s new notes printed?

What a totally expensive and totally unnecessary way to go when all that was required was to keep the SCOTTISH Pound Sterling but to choose whether to tie it with the English Pound Sterling or not to tie it to the English Pound Sterling.

So consider this – the McCrone Report correctly informed the Westminster parliament that upon Scottish independence the independent Scottish Pound Sterling, if tied to the English pound Sterling, would harden against the English pound to the extent as to be, “embarrassing”. The truth is that if the independent Scottish currency was tied to the English currency it would be the Scottish pound that would dominate the English pound and McCrone, like so many other Scots, just didn’t mentally think that Scotland owned part of the Bank of England and assumed there would be no Scottish influence on the Bank of England board.

After all wasn’t it called the Bank of England? Indeed it was – trouble is that in spite of being called the Bank of England it has never actually belonged to England.

So there you have it – you, along with most other people, cannot shake off the wrong facts that the Westminster Parliament is legally the Parliament of England, that the Bank of England belongs to England and that Scotland is leaving behind the rUnited Kingdom.

That is what is known as Brain washing. Do you also believe in Leprechauns, fairies and Santa Claus?

Mr Peffers keep on voting SNP. The vote is just irrelevant. Currency is just a name. The leadership know this fact. They are still in charge. They will do the necessary to keep on track. Scotland is a different place under SNP governance. Major improvements.

Do not get disillusion Scotland is still in excellent hands. One vote does not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The leadership voted in are smart, experienced, committed people. It will not go awry.

Keep the patience and the faith. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. It is nearly over the line. Never give up. Have a little patience.

All the major activities at the SNP conference will appear on the internet. It is just a wait and see. A waiting game. The BBC – Westminster can’t control the internet. They would like to. Trolling the people. They are going down, down, down. Into oblivion. They know it. Polls show it. They are finished in Scotland. SNP still rising according to the questionable ‘Polls’ Probably higher.

The tank commander will be back to troll the public. To no avail. Liars always get found out. Big time.

The Conference only really gets going from two pm. Two days + Fringe meetings It is an intermediate conference. It will all appear on the internet shortly. All the important points.

No one will watch the Tories/unionist.Except for a laugh. No one will be there, in Scotland. A complete waste of time, money and space. Irrelevant.

link to facebook.com

Nae harm done naebudy got trampled in the rush tae the bar .

For info @Gullaneno4

Those pea brained idiots are Scottish Socialist Party and Scottish Resistance numpties.

Usual useful idiots of the ‘Radical Left’ trying to damage the SNP and Independence movement in general.

If for no other reason this:

The UK and the BBC have stated quite clearly the SNP are a regional party…..That’s a lie, because in stating that they’ve endowed England with the title UK..United Kingdom thus implying Scotland is a region of who exactly,….well!

It’s insulting it’s incorrect and it’s just a downright blatant lie, Scotland is the UK well one half of it, because there can be no UK without Scotland so how can it be possible Scotland is a region of itself

Nobody in their right mind would call France a region of the EU or Belgium or any of the *countries* of that Union
yet here in Scotland the BBC and the Parliament of the UK are pleased to announce that the Scots are so stupid they haven’t even noticed by how much they can be insulted and made fools of

Unionists in Scotland are delighted to be treated in this way because most of them are too stupid to notice or care that the country they think they look to for loyalty and broad shoulders (England) thinks of them as morons

Whatever Unionist beliefs some may have based on religion or Royalty just remember those are not the beliefs held in the corridors of power in England they’re only the tools they use to control tools like you to keep people like them always better off than you, and keep you paying for it

If you believe Scotland is a region then who are you, what are you, Theresa May put it quite clearly, *You’re a citizen of nowhere*