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Wings Over Scotland

Balancing the budget

Posted on December 08, 2013 by



Amount of money saved by Iain Duncan Smith’s “benefit cap” so far:

“Around £6 million”

Amount of money wasted on Universal Credit welfare reform so far:

£120 million (or £140m, or £200m, or £425m)


The UK government – saving you money on welfare by 2034! (If you’re lucky.)

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  1. 06 08 14 01:53

    Scotland’s Story | A Wilderness of Peace

74 to “Balancing the budget”

  1. Holebender says:

    Cost of MPs’ wage rise?

  2. mogabee says:

    It’s all money off a ducks back!

  3. john king says:

    It wont matter a damn to that excuse of a man as long as those low life, scrounging, wastrels, aka the unemployed/disabled/sick don’t get a bean their not entitled to. 

  4. Jon D says:

    Equating that to a Scottish population (8.4%) share
    Money saved = £504,000 v’s
    Money wasted = up to £35.700,000
    Mmmm. Better Together, then?

  5. Helena Brown says:

    Don’t know if anyone has noticed but the retired are now being classed with the unemployed when it comes to being a waste of space and money. How soon they forget that most of us have paid for it, for many for more than they are now receiving.

  6. Bill Fraser says:

    With 4 years left to run say £900 million?

  7. handclapping says:

    Its not the English. It is Westminster / Wastemaster.
    English people are also suffering under the clown IDS but the Westminster system of elective dictatorship means there is no way that we common folk can recall even the most incompetent MP let alone a Megawaste Person like this one.
    And to add to our misery we have to pay them another 11% if they get re-elected 🙁

  8. the journeyman says:

    The full cost of welfare reform to our society goes far beyond the disgraceful financial estimates being discussed. These reforms have pitted workers in society against people without work but especially those people working in the work programme. 

    If we don’t change, the continued assault on the least well off has the potential to completely break down any notion we have of community and who knows what that could look like in 5 or 10 years time. Scotland must stand up and make it known that we believe in a better way. The only people who think staying in the union is a future for everyone, are people who think they themselves are ok. However, if we stay in the union more and more families, comfortable for now, will become more affected when the on going austerity cuts go even deeper.

    That IDS can get media space to even make these comments is wrong on so many levels. Far from deserting our UK cousins, Scotland’s vote for independence could save the working classes in rUK by shedding beams of light on the corrupted and failing UK system.

  9. Bertie K says:

    Excellent website, been reading for a while now and have to say I’ve feel a lot better informed – Thanks folks.

    A bit O/T but something which I haven’t been able to resolve about Independence for Scotland is where it would stand with the Windsors.

    I watched a debate in the commons where some Rees Mogg chappie was whittering on about the rights of the monarchy when the title changes hands from one lot to another and am concerned at the status regarding the Queens estates.

    Can any of you bright pennies tell me if in the event of the monarchy changing hands, do these rights and privelages reset to default? for example could Charlie or Willie get to pick and choose the estates currently given over to Scotland (north sea etc)

  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Cost of MPs’ wage rise?”

    £4.6 million.

  11. handclapping says:

    Would it not be simpler to organise repeat shewings of Soylent Green in the cinemas and get some of our multi-millionaire cooks to shew us recipies to die for on TV?

    If we get rid of the old folk, we dont need to slash the rest of the welfare budget and we’d have plenty to stock the food banks with. Win, win as they say in Westminster.

  12. Les Wilson says:

    If there ever was a case for Indy…

  13. Vronsky says:

    “could Charlie or Willie get to pick and choose the estates currently given over to Scotland (north sea etc)”
    Sure – if they don’t mind going to the guillotine.

  14. AnneDon says:

    @Bertie K
    The SNP say they would keep Betty, if they won the subsequent 2016 election. Other groups and parties have different opinions. And I’m sure that recent revelations of the amount of interference there is by the Royals will have changed a few minds.
    Personally, I’d rather a vote on becoming a republic, but we have to get the Yes vote first.
    After that, all options can be discussed.

  15. kininvie says:

    @ Bertie K
    The question is not so much the Windsors as what the crown owns in Scotland. The SG has long asked for the Crown estate to be handed over. So far it has not been. That would change with independence.

  16. call me dave says:

    Our independence when won will only dissolve the 1707 ‘Act of Union’ it will leave the 1603 ‘Union of the Crowns’ so the present Queen  will / should remain.
    I expect and hope that there will be a referendum on the Royals v Republic later. Meanwhile Betty will stay until death and I hope that is that.

  17. Red Squirrel says:

    @ Bertie K
    One of the many exciting possibilities of independence is long overdue land reform.  We are lucky enough to live in this wild and beautiful land and it belongs to all of us, not just the few.

  18. joe kane says:

    Yes Helena Brown,
    there is a new social category called “worklessness” which includes patients in comas and those diagnosed with terminal illnesses along with people who have worked all their lives and are now retired. They share the same status as unemployed workers gainfully seeking employment. Basically everybody who isn’t rich or in current employment are afflicted with the terrible socio-psychological scourge of “worklessness”. Such a state of affairs called “worklessness” is not to be confused with old-style unemployment caused by failed government neoliberal economic policies since Thatcher was Prime Minister.
    Such neoliberal abuse of language puts the onus on individuals for their own predicament, blaming them for not trying hard enough to find work if they’re unemployed for instance. Even though some may even be sick and disabled there is always some kind of work they could do but, alas, they’ve become so used to a life of easy access to free handouts and welfare benefits from the taxpayer that the welfare state is actually holding them back through no fault of themselves or the bleeding-heart do-gooders in charge of welfare policy down in Westminster.

    Here is a good recent example of such Westminster-Whitehall neoliberal Orwellian misuse of language and victim blaming –
    Euan McColm: Working on Glasgow’s workless statistic 

  19. John MacGregor says:

    Anyone notice the Landward tv programme let us see how well the Crown Estates blend in with the local community and what it contributed without actually going into detail

  20. Bertie K says:

    Thanks guys, I know it was an off topic question and should probably be put in another category but….
    I understand Independence has to come first but what if Lizzie abdicates before or shortly after the referendum do the rules change redarding the Crown Estates?
    I read somewhere that the swearing in of a monarch includes them chosing rights over certain property once deemed to have been surrendered, can this type of thing happen?
    Please forgive me if I’ve got this wrong and just being a bit thick

  21. handclapping says:

    @Bertie K
    That’s English. In Scotland the Crown Estate is the property of the mythical Crown, the summit and direction of the Scottish people so nothing to do with the person of the Queen / King.

  22. Chris says:

    Looking at the article linked to the post is states that the 6 million saving was from the 351 households that were capped by more than £300/week but would mean that there are 27,649 households that have been capped between £0 to £300 per week. If one assumes an average cap in this group of £100/week or 5200/year (pure guess) this would give an annual reduction in benefit (amount saved by benefit cap) of £143m per year from this group or £149m in total per year due to the benefit cap not “approximately £6m”.

  23. call me dave says:

    Interesting Q re: Queenie.
    She will be keeping a close eye on the way things are going and I suppose can decide to.

    1. Keep going until death (can’t see the SG ditching her ) Hoping for the best with Charlie (risky but by the book)
    2. Try to force the issue and resign to get Charlie established asap before things settle (risky but might be worth a try)
    3. Persuade Charlie to let the office pass immediately to Prince Willie, abdicate  which may be seen as popular and Scots especially will swallow it. ( ‘voila’)

    Historians and machiavellian plotters amongst us will have a good time debating..

  24. Andy-B says:

    IDS  In deep sh*t, as Ed balls almost said.
    Who’d have thought a lowlife like IDS could be born in Edinburgh, and how could such a spineless devious cold git like IDS have been a Scots Guard in the army.
    IDS wrote a book called “The Devils Tune” I wonder if he was looking in the mirror when he thought up the title, of his 400 page plus piss poor thriller.
    Mind you I’m not surprised at the huge sum of taxpayers cash wasted by the clown IDS,he even lied, and was caught out when he claimed to have studied at the prestigeous University of Perugia, when infact he studied at the far less prestegious University of Per Stranieri, and left said uni with no qualifications at all.
    IDS  was also educated at Dunchurch College of management, but an investigation by none other than the BBC, found that IDS gained no qualifications there either.
    To think this clown of a man is in charge of work and pensions for the UK just beggers belief.
    iDS claimed he could live on £53.00 benefits per week, after a petition of 460.000 signatures was handed in asking him to do so, he baulked at the mere idea of completing his challenge.
    IDs also tried to shift the blame on the rise of foodbanks, not on his austerity cuts to benefits but on the Trussel Trust, claiming that foodbanks had always been their, but people just hadn’t been aware of them previously.

  25. Triskelion says:

    As Mark McGowan said: This is not a recession, it’s a robbery.

  26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ” this would give an annual reduction in benefit (amount saved by benefit cap) of £143m per year from this group or £149m in total per year due to the benefit cap not “approximately £6m”.”

    Take it up with the Telegraph, the £6m figure is theirs.

  27. Train Fares says:

    Good god what have you done Falkirk
    <a href=”″ rel=”nofollow”></a&gt;

    No sorry re-think.  We chucked her out as being the most inept person yet. With her grand achievement of being banned from the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser for 2 years until she apologised for lying about the Monklands A&E. Quality Stuff from Karen. Falkirk are welcome to her.

  28. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Good god what have you done Falkirk”

    Good god what have YOU done? WTF was with those 57 line breaks?

  29. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

    Bertie I too heard Reese Mogg saying that the present arrangement with the Queen over her funding lasts only as long as she does. But I don’t think it’s much to be so about as the current arrangement was agreed recently. Nothing is caste in stone. Although I didn’t have time to listen to Reese Mog
    g long enough for him to get to the bloody point! 🙂

  30. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

    Damn phone ..
    I meant:
    “but I don’t think it’s much to be concerned about” (re Queen’s funding arrangement)

  31. Ian Brotherhood says:

    IDS might want to think about going on another of his ‘research’ trips around the country, seeing first-hand what’s what.
    In the past week I’ve seen two examples of shoplifting in charity-shops. In the first, a youngish (20-something) dude, clearly not 100% sober/straight, was showing the elderly volunteer workers the items he was taking into the changing room. ‘Ah’ve goat three things here, right? Naw, ah mean two hen, look, ah’ve goat two things here, right?‘ As he went into the back-shop the ladies explained that the guy is notorious – on his last visit he was very much the worse for drink, took three sweaters from the racks, put them all on, one over the other, then walked out, forgetting his own jacket. They don’t call the police because it would cause too much bother, and he might come back for revenge.
    The second incident was in Saltcoats – in a more ‘upmarket’ charity-shop, I saw a man (perhaps early sixties) slipping what looked like a calendar inside his jacket while actually talking to the shop workers. He walked out quite calmly.
    I don’t spend my entire life in charity shops, so the real frequency of these thefts can only be guessed at. Watch out for new job ‘opportunities’ – security guards for charity shops.
    Makes ye proud, eh? 

  32. Chris says:

    “Take it up with the Telegraph, the £6m figure is theirs.”
    From the telegraph article:
    “Capping the benefits paid to these 350 families alone is expected to save the taxpayer around £6million a year, the DWP said.”
    Emphasis added.
    The “saving” from the 28,000 households subject to the benefit cut will be greater than £6m, although the Telegraph does not quantify it.

  33. Jingly Jangly says:

    Ian may I add,
    If it wasn’t for the Charity shops or the pound stores or in Saltcoats case Hairdressers there would be hardly any shops in our town centres.
    A sad indictment of the state of Scotland today. Better Together, I think not…..

  34. K8tie says:

    Good speech by Angus Robertson relating to Scottish defense or lack of it!

  35. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Anyone else who, like me, isn’t very sure what all this hoo-ha about Universal Credit is about, may find this useful – basically, the ministers are blaming the civil servants, and the civil servants are, well…not saying much really, because they can’t, can they?

  36. annie says:

    Ian Brotherhood – “makes you proud” no Ian, absolutely makes me sad.

  37. This is well OT, so apologies in advance but . . .

    I’ve spent a few days setting up . It’s a directory site with annotated entries grouped under sensible headings to draw people into the discussion. It links to pro-independence groups’ websites and facebook pages, to the best of the YES blogs, to articles and to videos.

    The thinking behind it is to try to get it to do well in Google searches for scottish independence referendum and similar. If you google this phrase or similar phrases at the moment none of the YES blogs or pro-independence groups come up. Usually it is the Scotsman, the BBC and similar sites that predominate.
    One of the problems is that many of the pro-independence sites don’t have any links, or have very limited links. My thinking is that we need to get the whole pro-independence web interlinked so anyone stumbling into it has plenty of places to go.

    So – if you know of any sites that you think should be added to this project please let me know. (There’s an email address on the site). And – if you operate a website or know someone who does – see if you can get them to put a link on to on it. Google still counts incoming links as a strong indicator of website quality when working out its rankings.

  38. joe kane says:

    DWP sanctions have never been proven to encourage people to find jobs or to promote and increase activity in the economy. What they have managed to do is create mass poverty, destitution and hunger unseen in Britain since before WWII.

    The efficacy of the DWP sanctions regime has the same basis in scientific evidence as DWP tests to find out if someone is fit for work or not, which have no basis in medical ethics or medical science. The DWP cure-all “work is good for health” nostrum is the fundamental basis of its approach to the medical conditions of workers regardless of their actual individual state of health or the fact that work has been proven for thousands of years to actually kill people who are sick and disabled. The DWP’s “work is good for health” approach is having the same mass health effects as its sanctions regime is having in eradicating mass poverty and increasing activity and output in the economy ie the opposite.

    The latest benefit scrounger to be exposed and punished by IDS and his unaccountable DWP goon squad, a law unto themselves and beyond the control of liberal democracy –
    War hero’s benefits axed – because he was selling poppies

  39. Ian Brotherhood says:

    IDS should be strapped into a chair with eyeballs bared a la ‘Clockwork Orange’, and forced to watch the following.
    (Sorry I don’t have the details of who the man is, or who is speaking on his behalf – just found it on Youtube.)

  40. Training Day says:

    Labour are simply bursting with passionate young talent, smart and articulate with an ardour for ‘social justice’, and eager for the continuation of the Union. That’s according to the BBC/MSM.

    Labour have just selected Karen Whitefield for Falkirk.

    Go figure.

  41. The Rough Bounds says:

    It is with great sadness that I must inform you all that a great patriot, Hugh MacDonald, has passed away today.
    Most of you in the national movement will only know Hugh from the elderly man that he became. That’s a pity for you because I remember him since the sixties when he was a power house of nationalism with a deep, deep affection for our country.
    Hugh was of that dying breed, a native Gaelic speaker. He spent the remainder of his life in Islay among other native speakers. He was emotional (like most Scots) with a great big heart, and he had a great sense of humour with a ready laugh.
    He inspired many, many of us to believe in our country. I will miss him very much.
    Dileas gu bas. Dia gur beannachd a Uisdean choir, mo charaid ionmhainn.

  42. Ian Brotherhood says:

    A lesson from very recent history – this is where IDS got his ideas from:

  43. Ian Brotherhood says:

    …and this is why he’ll never quite ‘make the grade’, no matter what he does:

  44. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Hugh MacDonald
    He was a huge figure in Winnie Ewing’s famous Hamilton victory and very good company during the campaign indeed. He is the one in the famous photograph with Winnie on his shoulders after the result

  45. caz-m says:

    Rough Bounds, sorry to hear about your friend.

    @Ian brotherhood

    That is some video, did they think that if they send the guy back to ATOS often enough, that they would be able to restore his sight or something.

    It is also getting worse on the food bank side as well.
    There are some people returning food because they cannot afford the electricity to power the cooker.

  46. Jeannie says:

    I didn’t know Hugh MacDonald, but what a shame that someone who campaigned so long and hard for independence won’t be here to cast his vote on day.  Truly sad.

  47. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Left Angus McGillivray Right Hugh MacDoald

  48. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @joe kane (10.30) –
    Joe, in all seriousness – who are these ‘doctors’ being employed by ATOS? What do we know about them? Where did they come from?
    It’s becoming clear that some of them are not ‘doctors’ insofar as the title is commonly understood. What hard data, if any, is available on the professional status of these characters?

  49. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This is a good one – check out the guy in the bed, wearing the blue shirt – he’s just about to get his fifteen seconds of fame on the Dave and Nick Roadshow, and then? wham! they’re offsky…

  50. joe kane says:

    Ian Brotherhood, just to say, basically the British medical regulatory, governing and representative bodies such as the GMC, BMA, NMC (Nursing & Midwifery Council) and the CQC (Care Quality Commission) have washed their hands of the ethics and practices of medical professionals employed by Atos and contracted by the DWP.

    The evidence of medical abuse by British medical professionals at Atos is vast and on-going, as if I need to say that given not a day goes by without some headline about a patient being abused by DWP-Atos in some horrible way.

    Then there is the fact the DWP ESA regime itself is pseudo-scientific iatrogenic quackology whose scientific basis would embarrass even the most ardent supporter of Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM). The ESA regime itself was put together in 2006 by the Labour Government with the help of American medical insurance giant Unum, along with Atos and members of a certain infamous British school of psychiatric disability denial. This is an ongoing corruption scandal in itself.

    The real villains, as fas as I and many others are concerned, isn’t the fall-guy Atos or even the DWP, but the likes of the GMC and the BMA which could bring the whole abusive iatrogenic quackology of the DWP ESA regime to halt overnight if they so wished. They’d rather follow their state orders, knowing they’re getting the full protection of the state, than follow their own medical codes of ethics and practices which they make such a fuss about in other arenas and under other circumstances. 

    See Annex C page 47 for list of committee members –
    Transformation of Personal Capability Assessment 

    Final Report: ‘From The British Welfare State to Another American State’ by Mo Stewart 
    Black Triangle Campaign

  51. Ian Brotherhood says:

    It’s been another slow night, and I’ve said more than enough, but sign-off with this.
    See how exhausted, and old, Thatcher looks, and the weakness of her reply to Skinner – the writing was on the wall, and they all knew it.
    Then, consider the state of BT right here and now.
    They are in a bit of a pickle, and no mistake…

  52. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @joe kane –
    I promise you this mister – I will read the material linked-to, and make folk aware of it. I have talented relatives who work at varying levels of health-care, and if they’re not already aware of this? be assured, they will hear about it soon.

  53. Dcanmore says:

    O/T Referendum…
    Chris Huhne MP has came out with a rather decent article on the forthcoming referendum vote. He doesn’t believe the polls either.

  54. A2 says:

    “I don’t spend my entire life in charity shops, so the real frequency of these thefts can only be guessed at. Watch out for new job ’opportunities’ – security guards for charity shops.”
    Really common apparently, have a friend who volunteers in Barnardos and says it happens all the time.

  55. Tattie-bogle says:

    O/T but a small blog coming from a young student doing his part for a Yes vote.

  56. john king says:

    John MacGregor says
    “Anyone notice the Landward tv programme”
    Yes and I found it all very interesting,
    more for what was not said than for what was, 
    it was almost like an advert for the crown estates.

  57. caz-m says:

    Sports Update.

    England go 2 – 0 down in the Ashes series. Australia just need one more win to take the Ashes.

    Also in the UK Snooker tournament, Neil Robertson of Australia beats Mark Selby of England 10 – 7.

    No laughing at the back there.

  58. Linda's Back says:

    Project Fear’s daily wail is food prices to roar if we vote for independence.
    And Hootsman letter pages get more like tabloids by the day including silly letter from Mr Gray complaining about the cost of leaflets being handed out by nationalists at a football match.

  59. Iain says:

    @Linda’s Back
    ‘Project Fear’s daily wail is food prices to roar if we vote for independence.’

    Unravelling already, Tesco have stated that they were definitely not one of the supermarkets involved in the FT scare story.

  60. John H. says:

    @Linda’s Back, I saw something about that on Sky Press Preview last night. I wasn’t paying much attention, but apparently Alistair Darling called a meeting of the heads of the four biggest supermarkets and this is what they came up with.
    Strange behaviour, considering that they are so far ahead in the polls. Anyone would think that they were losing.

  61. Brian Powell says:

    Following from that twitter feed on the supermarkets putting up their prices if Scotland becomes Independent, I guess they haven’t heard of Aldi or Lidls, they will make an absolute killing.
    Huge expansion opportunity.
    I think I will get the family to stop shopping a Morrisons now, just for making the threat and will get my petrol from the other garage.
    Feels good to not just put up with being treated like a pawn. Independence would do that for just about everything!

  62. TheGreatBaldo says:

    Leaving aside the rather obvious point that Supermarkets compete mostly on price……
    If all of the Big 4 (and I note that Tesco have broken from the pack and said ‘nothing to do with us’)…were to raise their prices simultaneously then they would be acting as a cartel, which is pretty much illegal everywhere and certainly liable under Anti Competition Laws.
    With what amounts to a signed confession in the FT (certainly by ASDA), the Scottish Govt could hammer them with huge fines so any savings the Supermarkets make would be lost in Legal fees and fines
    Not to mention the almost terminal loss of trade and damage to their brands from such a naked stunt……I suspect Scottish consumers would boycott the likes of ASDA
    Now if Darling WAS involved in this stunt..then he’s pretty much signed his political death warrant.

  63. Famous15 says:

    Stopped shopping at Morrisons long time ago as their Brit Nat leanings were getting too obvious. They  confirm my suspicions that they have joined the anti Scottish project fear and made threats about increased prices on independence.Laugh out Loud!

  64. Ken500 says:

    Cost of loan repayments, going to the UK treasury which Scotland didn’t borrow or spend £4Billion

    £8Billion going to the UK Treasury Unaccounted

    £121Billion more is borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. – pro rata £12Billion .

    Cost of the Scottish Office £100million – Cost of Westminster/HoL £1Billion.

    Cost of illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion, Trident, redundant weaponry £Billions. Cost to the Oil sector of UK Treasury mismanagement £10Billlion (-£2Billion a year, for five years)

  65. Ken500 says:

    ‘Room tax’ £400 millions – costs more. Housng benefit in Scotland was not a problem, it had increased less than inflation.

    Increased University fees in the rest of the UK – increased borrowing £6Billion

  66. Gillie says:

    Scotland has a much higher degree of food self-sufficiency than the rest of the UK and even the EU, and Scottish food and drink exports are now worth over £5 billion a year. So this latest scare in the Daily Mail is simply shamateurish, and reflects how much stuck in the mire the No campaign has become.  
    Also you have to admire Scottish Labour’s inspirational choice as the candidate for Falkirk.  Known as the ‘Helium Harpy’ and the ‘Blonde Jackie Baillie’ you have to admit that Scottish Labour don’t know the meaning of scraping the barrel when they picked Karen Whitefield.

  67. Ken500 says:

    Monarchy £40Million – increase £5Billion

    Monarchy, pound, EU – the SNP goes with consensus – these are favoured by the majority. Independence is the goal, after that is achieved, the voters will decide.

  68. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “And Hootsman letter pages get more like tabloids by the day including silly letter from Mr Gray complaining about the cost of leaflets being handed out by nationalists at a football match.”


  69. Morag says:

    pseudo-scientific iatrogenic quackology whose scientific basis would embarrass even the most ardent supporter of Complementary and Alternative Medicine
    I am SO stealing that.

  70. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah jist dont believe it Karen Whitfield selected for the Falkirk seat, Baillie JoLo rolled intae wan, she ran away from me at the Wishaw count yrs ago,wouldnt answer my questions, I hope the good people of Falkirk do some reshearch on her before the election.

  71. Brotyboy says:

    Without wishing to go down the ‘English’ road, I am led to believe that Andrew H N Gray is from Riseley, which I think is in North Yorkshire.  
    I also have a link to his written submission to the Scottish Select Committee a couple of years ago where he suggested that any vote for Independence should be either ignored or reversed at the earliest opportunity – that’s how good a democrat he is.  
    The link is on the desktop at home so it will be next week before I can post it.

  72. joe kane says:

    Anybody interested, the much heralded appearance of IDS before the Westminster Parliament’s Works & Pensions Committee is now being broadcast live on the web right now, here –

  73. The Rough Bounds says:

    Ronnie Anderson 11.30 am.
    Karen Whitfield RAN away from you?

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