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Amid the circus

Posted on August 04, 2014 by

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    1. 04 08 14 09:23

      Amid the circus | Scottish Independence News

    107 to “Amid the circus”

    1. john king says:

      Will we ever learn?

    2. wee jonny says:

      John King – Yes, on the 18th September 2014.

    3. Grouse Beater says:

      Patch’s remark cuts clean through the hypocrisy.

    4. R-type Grunt says:

      Succinct and to the point.

    5. Bill Fraser says:

      Love the click through link.

    6. Brian Powell says:

      As Historywoman says, “rUK’s interests would be at odds with iScotland”, however if we stick with the UK it won’t matter if we have different values or not.

      All we will have is a lot of hand wringing, then we will be going along with what Westminster wants, regardless of what we say.

      So if Iran ‘doesn’t play ball’, the definition of that will change to suit the US, whatever Iran does, all you recruiting areas in Edinburgh, Dundee, Glasgow, Aberdeen, be prepared. The Territorial Army replacement plan isn’t working, so they will be looking to fill up with ‘regulars’ if war kicks off with Iran.

      And we know how good Scots are at being the front line; we are presently having a re-run of WW1 to remind us.

    7. Tony Little says:

      The “War Poets” should be compulsory reading at any and every event to “commemorate” the sacrifices made in WW1 for no other reason that to stroke the egos of our political “betters”.

      There are not words I can find that are citable to print about what I think of today’s politicians. History is there to teach us to by cynical of all politicians and their close affiliation with the military complex.

      Lest we forget!

    8. heedtracker says:

      So much being said by the BBC, David Cameron etc about WW1this morning. My grandfather from Glasgow served and was wounded in the First World War and he never spoke of it, ever.

    9. Nana Smith says:

      BBC Caesar! 9pm on the 9th there is to be a programme called HMS Timbertown.

      This is the informal name of the prisoner of war camp my grandfather and other Lewis men were held. I have been sent some very poignant photographs of the funeral of one of these brave men.

      My grandfather who served in WW1 never spoke of it.

    10. Grouse Beater says:

      It’s difficult if not impossible to find an English war poet glorifying the carnage of the first World War.

      Today, we live in an age of perpetual wars, where politicians exalt us to kill more and more people to attain an illusory peace.

      It seems to me a greater thing to praise soldiers we keep alive than praise them after we send them to their death.

    11. Macart says:

      No poor man ever started a war.

    12. Jim Thomson says:

      The Bill might make “no further progress” but that’s the underlying sentiment of the Westminster right and far right.

    13. The Scotswoman says:

      Wars are planned by cabals of rich men wanting to make more money. Every war, every bloody war, as far back as you can think is based on shysters somewhere wanting more than their share. They sucker everyone else in with talk of patriotism, terrorism and every other ism. And who fights these wars. Not those who secretly plan it and finance it that’s for sure.

    14. Liquid Lenny says:

      Think it should be compulsory for every school kid to visit Ypres , the Menin gate and the scores of Commonwealth war graves in the area.

      They will never forget that experience.

    15. Tom Platt says:

      Harry Patch’s fine words remind me how powerful and enduring are the instincts of ordinary thinking and independent people.

    16. Donald Gillies says:

      From Maryhill to Gaza…strange how the more things change , the more they stay the same. For Uncle Matt and his platoon from the HLI, it ended in 1916 at Gallipoli, in seconds, during the retreat,acting as rearguard, when they were told to drop everything and run for the ships! The HLI, Glasgow Keelies, fought everywhere…and in my Uncles mind that battle never finished till he was at rest that final time.

    17. yerkitbreeks says:

      Yes, there is definitely another side to this – my father was in the Somme ( Royal Artillery ) and two things would make me honour him amongst the many others. Fisrtly I never saw him wear the medals awarded, unlike those seen striding proudly on tele, as he said they were awarded for killing Germans.

      And secondly, in his 86 years not once did I hear him say anything unkind about his adversaries, or latter day Germans.

      Does make you wonder.

    18. Donald Gillies says:

      I wish to bring up again, the case of the Raasay Raiders, where crofters and men returning to the Western islands, found their families, their people in poverty, starving, scratching an existence from the rocks where they had been excluded from the fertile parts of the island by uncaring landowners and uncaring governments. This was not 1715…..this was post 1918! As always our thanks for the sacrifices made by those who served are wafer thin platitudes and promises from a Westminster government, through all the centuries.
      No more! no more, it must stop here!

    19. No no no...yes says:

      Jim Thomson 9.00am
      The National Service bill was for England and Wales only, thankfully.

      The quote from Harry Patch reminds me of the phrase used by dodgy politicians when they say, “..it is in Britain’s national interest..”

      What they really mean is they want to interfere to keep the failed empire going.

    20. Hewitt83 says:

      “They promised us homes fit for heroes…instead, we got heroes fit for homes.”.

      Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

    21. Flooplepoop says:

      Would a war in Iran stop the Referendum?
      All this is down to the petrodollar and America trying to hold it all together.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Drj7-YeoY

    22. Luigi says:

      I am sick of politicians using servicemen and women as human shields to protect themselves (and their institutions) from the results of their own stupidity and misuse of power.

      The way it is done is very clever – simply focus on the great sacrifices made by ordinary men and women. It seems to work well by evoking feelings of pity and admiration for those heroes, which helps to dampen down real anger and criticism against the rulers who caused the (often avoidable) carnage in the first place. Scum hiding behind heroes.

      Nothing new – rulers (of all forms) have been at this game for centuries.
      Honour the fallen – who could argue with that?

    23. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Only slightly o/t, but still highly relevant.

      This morning, after the largest sporting event in recent Scottish history ended as a succesful occassion both in sporting and organisational terms for Scotland, with a global audience of billions and a record number of medals for Scottish and Welsh competitors (maybe others too; haven’t heard) our national broadcaster, on BBC Radio Scotland, chose to run with WW1 commemorations happening today as the top item of their 0700 news bulletin.

      Events from a hundred years ago deemed more newsworthy than events less than twenty four hours earlier. Events happening today deemed more newsworthy than events yesterday which, in case it wasn’t clear, were a massive success for Glasgow and Scotland.

      All shuffled aside, casually, to commemorate an event in history that frankly can only be considered to be an abject failure. Imagine if they’d done that to the Olympics. Just imagine the howls.

      BBC Scotland; your unbiased news provider. I cannot understand how I ever believed that to be true.

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Nana Smith says:
      My grandfather who served in WW1 never spoke of it.

      Like most people in Scotland nowadays, I have no experience of war.

      I had an uncle who had a ‘good war’ in RAF ground crew in WW2. He saw the world, but never the enemy. He talked about his exciting experiences.

      In contrast, I’ve known men who would not talk about what had happened to them, and what they had witnessed.

      I have always thought that this situation made the next war, and the next, and the next, easier for politicians to begin. I wish the media would talk less about the glory and more about what the sacrifices actually meant.

    25. Andrew O' Halloran says:

      There is a strong, official culture of rememberance but very real, actual remembering. The lives of ordinary men and woman were sacrificed for an imperialist abstraction. This we are guided away from remembering.

    26. Footsoldier says:

      Of course nothing is learned. Cameron is now urging NATO to increase its military presence near the border with Russia.

    27. Wee Folding Bike says:

      No no no…yes ,

      It’s true that the national service bill doesn’t apply here but consider the case of someone who moves to London for work. This bill might cause them to take years out on pay to low to cover their rent there. Andy Burnham might want one nation in this as well as the NHS.

    28. Linda McFarlane says:

      I couldn’t agree more with Harry Patch.
      I would love to see ANY politician who advocates going to war at the front of the fighting, gun in hand.
      My husband of 35 years served 12 years in the Royal Engineers and feels betrayed by Westminster. He is voting YES in September

    29. Indy_Scot says:

      It is quite sad and cynical that the UK media and the unionists feel they have to glorify war and the death of so many people just for the sole purpose of trying to prevent Scotland from having a better future.

      These people have no low.

      If any good can come out of theses gutter tactics of a decaying empire, it’s that Scotland cannot afford to waste this opportunity to make a fresh start and become a fairer and more socially just country.

    30. desimond says:

      Have you ever been away – The Beautiful South the lyrics sum up the sentiment very well imho…..

      Your fight them on the beaches
      Speeches make me despair
      ‘Cause if there’s one thing we can guarantee
      Is you will not be there

      Tidying your room
      Making up your bed
      And if your diary’s full that week
      You’ll send us lot instead

      Send us lot instead
      Put a poppy by my lovers bed
      We believe you when you say
      You’ve hurt your back

      Have you ever been away
      Where were you when we took Calais?
      I don’t know, I don’t care
      I’m just glad that I wasn’t there
      You don’t know, you don’t care
      You’re just glad that you wasn’t there

      I’m afraid your Rule Britannia mania
      Doesn’t ring so true
      If I was captain of the waves
      I’d turn the gun on you

      Any last requests
      Before you join the dead?
      I’ll crap into your Union Jack
      And wrap it ’round your head

      Wrap it ’round your head
      Take a look at all the blood we’ve shed
      We’ll believe you when you say
      It was worth it

      Liberate the streets of Europe
      Give our kids a chance
      Give them Beaujolais by tap
      And cheap day trips to France

      But you have never seen or smelt
      This ungodly death
      It’s like the stench of roasted lamb
      Upon your father’s breath

      You don’t know, you don’t care
      You’re just glad that you wasn’t there
      I don’t know, I don’t care
      I’m just glad that I wasn’t there

    31. cearc says:

      I remember visiting London as a small child and seeing men with no legs on ‘skateboards’ using their hands to propel themselves along the pavements.

      Never mind homes, not even wheelchairs for heroes.

      Liquid Lenny,
      absolutely agree. At 11 my father took us to find the grave of his uncle,19, near the Somme, that had never been visited by family. Driving for miles through gently rolling hills covered with gravestones as far as the eye could see.

      Over 25 yrs. later I was able to find the same spot with my own children from memory.

    32. Peter Macbeastie says:

      My uncles on my mother’s side all served in WW2. Her Dad served in WW1 and by a combination of good luck and safe postings they all survived.

      Uncle Bob was with the 8th Army in North Africa; got up in the middle of the night to go to the latrine and before he got there a shell obliterated his tent and five of his mates. It was the only event he ever mentioned because he was ashamed to have survived. Never spoke of anything else.

      The only other one who spoke of the war was Peter; he was in the RAF and never had what you would call, or what he would, for that matter, a dangerous posting. Dangerous being relative; he was still on airfields in the south of England when the Luftwaffe were attacking them, but not as dangerous as being up in the air or on battlefields.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      A family tale, which I have researched.

      My great uncle was John Murphy, a ploughman from Muirkirk. He volunteered and joined the Ayr battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. They embarked for the Mediterranean from Liverpool on the Maurtania arriving at Mudros 29th May 1915. On 6th June they landed at Gallipoli. He survived a hellish battle of Achi Baba Nullah, 12-13 July.

      To quote The History of the Royal scots Fusiliers by John Buchan, regarding Achi Baba Nullah:
      The losses of the 52nd Division had been such that for the Scottish Lowlands it was a second Flodden. In large areas between Tweed and Forth scarcely a household but mourned a son. On the 3rd July [1915] the division numbered 10,900 of all ranks; by the 13th it had lost over 4,800 in killed and wounded.

      In January 1916 the Royal Scots Fusiliers were evacuated from Gallipoli to Egypt. On 2 March they took over section of the Suez Canal defences along the edge of the Sinai.

      The small oasis of Dueidar was held by 156 men; 120 from the 1/5th Battalion. They were a long way from the farmlands of Ayrshire. On the morning of 23th April 1916 the Turks attacked in force. The Scots held off the assault until relieved by Australian Light Horse at 13:30. This action was part of the wider Battle of Katia. They sustained 55 casualties and John Murphy died of wounds received in battle on 24th April.

      His grave…

      http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=2239616

      http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/dennisstinton/Kantara20War20Mem20Cem.jpg

    34. hetty says:

      The westminster lot will be in a hurry to get that national service bill done and dusted then. Brrr. How chilling to even consider another war, how backward are these politicians. Playing with people’s lives is inbuilt in them, but we all know who the real enemies are. Enemies to peace, enemies to progress and the future for our kids’ sakes, enemies to man and womankind, I cannot abide the lot of them. Tonight we will light a candle for peace, or maybe 100. Get stuffed D Cameron and your warmongering pals.

    35. Rab.c says:

      4/8/1914 Westminster declares war on Germany. Third reading of Scottish Home Rule Bill suspended,never to be revisited. Coincidence ? I don’t think so

    36. caz-m says:

      What a century to remember. WW1, The Great Depression, WW2, Korean War, Sectarianism, The Troubles in Northern Ireland, The Falklands War, Iraq War and finally The War in Afghanistan, a war we are still involved in today.

      No wonder there have been so many Scots affected with psychological problems over the years.

      Domestic abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse are just some of the benefits of being part of “The Greatest Union The World Has Ever Seen” – Qoute, Jim Murphy.

    37. hetty says:

      Oh and my grandad fought in WW1, but my dad fought in Malaya after WW2, toward the end of his life he spoke about it, the soldiers took matters into their own hands in the jungle, hence, some officers never made it home. Only if they were intent on murdering say, a woman and her kids like, just for being there.

    38. wee jonny says:

      I spoke to a no voter a couple o weeks ago and I brought up the National Service Bill. She said that she thought it a good idea “Coz o a they lazy young folk wa dinna want to git aff thir arses”. I asked if she’d like her son or daughter to be forced into another illegal war like Iraq. And that they’d only be heroes if they come back in a bag as they’d be refused benefits and treated like scrounging shit if they never died for their country. Made her think.

    39. art1001 says:

      My grandfather fought for two years in ww1. Never spoke of it. Miraculously hit three brothers returned to no jobs and ended up emigrating to the US.

      I am disgusted by all of this. Please God let there be a YES victory.

    40. caz-m says:

      All this bullshit we are getting today is just Westminster/BBC trying to set the tone and Agenda for the Referendum debate.

      I will decide when I honour those who died in WW1, not Westminster/BBC.

      They are playing politics with all those young Scots who lost their lives in that pathetic war.

    41. mogabee says:

      Gaza, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria.

      People like you or I being slaughtered and displaced.

      Just makes you think…

    42. gerry parker says:

      @ Hetty.
      “The westminster lot will be in a hurry to get that national service bill done and dusted then.”

      Yep – it’s funny how they can get “important” bills through so quickly, but a new Scotland act giving Scotland more powers can’t even be considered and discussed unless and until we vote no.

      So place your bets now, what cup is the pea under, now you see it now you don’t, place your bets now(Oh btw – you’re going to lose your money)

      They’re masters at conning people, lets not have it happen this time.

    43. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ScottieDog

      If you click through from Max Keiser, it is an anti Israeli bias

    44. Illy says:

      Re: the clickthrough link:

      I don’t blame any nation in the middle east wanting to build nuclear detterrent capabilities. It seems to be the only thing that might stop America from invading them. (That, or alliances with China or Russia)

      Look at the different treatment North Korea gets, compared to Iraq, and ask yourself what the difference in circumstances is.

    45. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The front page of the Daily Telegraph from this day, 100 years ago.

      England declares war on Germany!

      http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/r/FT%20Publications/IC/Assets/PDF/ToughNewEra_Hurricane%20presentation%202014.pdf

      How come were incorporated in that?

    46. Capella says:

      Robert Newman’s “History of Oil” should also be compulsory viewing at this time. It’s the best description of the reasons for WW1 (and also Iraq and general geopolitical mayhem) there is. And he is a terrific stand up comedian. Political Education with laffs!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpm_8v80hw

    47. goldenayr says:

      People are being asked to take a poopy from Glasgow cathedral and lay it where they think is appropriate.

      Perhaps the doorstep of a certain office in Blythswood Sq.would be fitting.

    48. goldenayr says:

      “poopy”? sorry..poppy.

    49. john king says:

      I cant post this on “The mouths of Convicts”
      I posted my thoughts on the BBC website about the CG’s and turns out its one of the “editors picks”
      Maybe we do have suport from within the BBC?

      “I for one wont be sorry to see the end of the (English) commonwealth games, the patronising nonsense from the English broadcasters was nausiating, Its worth remembering Scotland paid lock stock and barrel for those games to have them commandeered by the London BBC was quite the most disgraceful thing I have ever seen, shame on you BBC shame on you!”

    50. CameronB Brofie says:

      Is this OT? This must surely clarify things? I wasn’t aware that ‘constitutional ownership’, whatever that is, trumped the right to self-determination. Are we selling shares in human rights now?

      The Commons report concluded: “We believe that the future of the Union is the property of all those who live in the UK. Securing the involvement and consent of us all will mean that the continual evolution of our Union will be supported and sustainable.”

      http://news.stv.tv/politics/219249-westminster-committee-calls-for-uk-referendum-on-devolution/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    51. john king says:

      I should point out that the “editors pick” is among “lowest rated”
      well you cant win em all!

    52. Liquid Lenny says:

      Rab.c

      Maybe all the politicians resigned so they could go to the Front Line?

      So we should have had devolution 100 years ago, but WW1 intervened, I wonder why the third reading of the Scottish Home Rule (1913) was not concluded after the war.

      I have asked all sorts of people from Scotland, England, Belgium and Germany why WW1 started, nobody has come up with a coherent reason. Maybe you have got something there, stopping Scots Home Rule makes a more compelling case for starting the war than any of the official reasons I have heard.

    53. goldenayr says:

      John King

      At least you got yours posted.

      Mine went straight to moderation.

    54. Boorach says:

      @ Caz-m

      You forgot Kenya, Borneo, Aden, Cyprus and many, many others. There were very few years in the last century when our Armed Forces weren’t involved in active service roles around the world.

      And the saddest thing about it all is that Westminster has learned absolutely nothing from that period of history to the extent that each and every Prime Minister seeks their own battlefield to despatch our troops to, all to bask in the title of ‘War Time Premier’.

    55. desimond says:

      A National Service Bill….this is very spooky. I wrote last week that I had been rewatching House of Cards and in one scene the caring King makes an impassioned speech about how the poor, unemployed and frail were being deemed less human by a harsh Tory government who were turning the population against each other. This speech gets public support and the Govt are under pressure to act.

      What was Franci Urquarts Governments solution to deal with social ills….reintroduce National Service!

    56. Clootie says:

      War appears to be a team building exercise for the union!

      I am sure not one person who objects to this piece of theatre has anything other than admiration for those who took part in this dreadful slaughter.

      However a fitting tribute would have been to focus on the failure of politicians in the build up / the dreadful ego’s of the ruling class who deemed themselves “leaders” by birth right – Lions led by Donkeys.
      Even in the Second World War the pilots of the Battle of Britain were divided by class – If you were from the right class you were an officer. Working class and you were a flight sergeant.

      We should have programmes on the propaganda used to turn the working class of one nation against the same group in another nation.
      Can we see a documentary on how the Rich made a fortune in War munitions.
      Can we have a programme about young men suffering from Shell shock been shot as cowards. Men being told to march against machine guns with their rifles at high port “in a dignified manner”
      How did so many 14 and 15 year old boys manage to enlist?
      Why did Scotland suffer such a significantly higher loss per head of population?

      War seldom impacts on the wealthy. In fact many industrialists make a great deal of profit from it.

      We could learn from the horrors of War but those in power prefer to use it to maintain “loyalty” in order to have the next generation ready for the killing fields.

      I could live with ignoring it but to try and make political advantage from it disgusts me.

    57. Kev says:

      @Illy

      You are absolutely right, in fact Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld, in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, said that Iran would be “crazy” not to develop nukes. I still don’t think they are though – and thats ofcourse the position of US intelligence.

      But I find it absolutely sickening that Cameron is in Glasgow trying to make political capital out of marking the outbreak of a war that, per head of population, killed far more Scots than any other nation of the British Isles,

    58. seoc says:

      Harry Patch’s proposal comes closest to solving mankind’s greatest problem, one that MUST be solved before we can further evolve:

      Those who profit in any way from war, those who would wear ceremonial military uniform, those who advocate war – especially for the young – are the first to the front. Everytime.

      They must ‘walk the walk’….etc.

    59. cearc says:

      ‘Mogabee says,

      Gaza, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria.

      People like you or I being slaughtered and displaced.

      Just makes you think…’

      …Of all the money that ‘British’ companies are making supplying arms and equipment.

      There finished that for you!

    60. heedtracker says:

      Is it another UKOK coincidence that we got our UK.gov vote no leaflet in the post this morning, as BetterTogether BBC blitz Scotland TV and radio with statesmanly ConDem’s like Cameron? It’s a pretty empty pamphlet really, says vote no for cheaper bills which does make you wonder if the Whitehall liggers have surrendered. Or is it all up to the BBC in Scotland now and their last big push for teamGB in Scotland, and other oh what a lovely war metaphors.

    61. Robert Bryce says:

      Jim Thomson says:
      4 August, 2014 at 9:03 am

      The Bill might make “no further progress” but that’s the underlying sentiment of the Westminster right and far right

      National service is not a requirement at this point for one simple reason. There are enough young men & women facing poverty in the UK who can be easily coerced into signing up to escape it.

      Until that changes we will not see it re-introduced.

    62. No no no...Yes says:

      “Amid the Circus” indeed. Here is a clown:

      http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/08/george-osborne-laughing-at-wwi-memorial/

    63. cearc says:

      Goldenayr @11.13,

      I rather preferred the first version.

    64. Andrew Morton says:

      George MacDonald Fraser said in reference to the Crimean war that if politicians wanted to appreciate what war was like, they should be taken out between the lines, shot in the stomach and left to lie there without medical attention.

    65. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      The national service bill isn’t about being in the military. It’s about creating a pool of minimum wage labour deployable at the whim of Westminster.

      Anyone who’s read “Starship Troupers” might think of it as a bit like that.

      You might be sent to support the armed forces but doubt you’de get a gun.

    66. dennis mclaughlin says:

      ‘Lions led by donkeys’, seems to be an apt reminder of WW1.

    67. Breeks says:

      I read Harry Patches book. It was very thought provoking, and not the way you’d expect. He didn’t see himself defined by his war. Quite the reverse. He was a plumber and part time fireman a lot longer than he was a soldier.
      It’s been a while, so I need to read it again, but I do remember Harry’s day of remembrance wasn’t the big parades at the Cenotaph, but his day of remembrance was the day his machine gun squad was hit, killing his mates, and sending him back to Britain wounded.
      He comes across as a thoroughly decent and nice fella, and I’m glad he felt able to talk about his war in the last few years of his life. Rest in peace Mr Patch.

    68. dennis mclaughlin says:

      O/T A Morton
      GM Fraser’s Quartered Safe Out Here is a great read, if you want to find out what’real’ war felt like to the common squad.

    69. goldenayr says:

      cearc

      I think the first one was a Freudian slip.

    70. crantara says:

      Ye hippocrites,are these your pranks?
      to murder men and give God thanks?
      Desist for shame,proceed no further.
      God won,t accept your thanks for murder.

    71. Lochside says:

      What a nauseating country we currently live in.
      A state broadcaster collaborating and propagating bloody lies about the beginning of the biggest charnel house in Scotland’s history.

      Nearly 150,000 Scots died in four years, twice the UK average. Twice as many wounded, gassed, mutilated, shell shocked. Our population was decimated post war by emigration due to too few jobs and grinding poverty. So let’s celebrate!

      The verminous msm after allowing the English take-over of the broadcasting of our Commonwealth games and the narrative of ‘Home nations’ success, now want to enforce this by using a hundred year old bloodletting as a unifier for their rotten unequal state.

      Look at the old photos: ‘England at War with Germany’ on the newspaper bill-boards. Nothing has changed. We will get documentary after documentary,dramas and reminiscences about England’s story. England expects… Scottish sacrifice.

      Well, a day of reckoning is approaching and all the self-seeking liars and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s clinging on for dear life to their jobs at the msm and the BBC in Scotland in particular, will face their fate on the 19th of September:
      shameful defeat and loss of any reputation or illusion of self respect.

      So let them wallow in their Brit Lovefest of Death and Destruction, never once admitting to themselves the total hypocrisy of lying on behalf of a corrupt State that supplies weapons and support to Zionists murdering children on a daily basis.

    72. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Harry Patch was referred to as a plumber from Somerset at his funeral. War was a tiny part of his life which affected the rest of it.

      Between him and Woody Guthrie; both were right. If everyone who picked up a gun just stopped and asked why they were shooting at people war would stop. The ‘enemy’ is very rarely different to you in any meaningful way. In both World Wars this is especially apt. Fishermen from Orkney, enlisted in the Royal Navy, firing at fishermen from Kiel, enlisted in the Kriegsmarine. Idiots, sociopaths and megalomaniacs far, far away from all of them essentially deciding whether they should live or die.

    73. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Pater NacBeastie

      A rifle is a weapon with a worker at bot ends.

    74. Brian Powell says:

      An interesting exchange on twitter. One person making the very relevant comment: “”It’s possible to honour memory of millions slaughtered in WWI without glorifying and lying about intentions of those who sent them to die.”

      Several apparently planks of wood, replying, you could be right, but now is not the time, lets just honour the dead.

      We honour the dead of WW1 every year at the Cenotaph. The cover story for these ‘celebrations’ was that it would make people think about war and the reasons.

      So when tis person makes a comment on exactly that, war cannon fodder ‘thinkers’ wade in with, No lets just talk about the dead.

      I heard exactly the same thing a few weeks ago, when a RAF veteran rang in to a radio program to say he didn’t like the way war was being glorified and that should be stopped, then did talk about one of his experiences.

      All the subsequent callers ignored abut what he thought and the point he was making, and just talked about his experience: how it moved them etc, but only in a lets feel sad kind of way.

    75. Rosa Alba Macdonald says:

      a blog on the 100 Years of Scottish Class War: Red is the Colour.
      http://rosaalba.wordpress.com/2014/08/04/red-is-the-colour-from-war-graves-to-george-square-to-glasgow-2014/

    76. Edward says:

      John King
      Funny you should say that as I also posted a scathing comment about all the London presenters and personalities being bussed up from London for the CG and I also ended up an Editors pick
      Was a bit taken a back

    77. Jim says:

      Yep, let’s celebrate all those Scots that were used as cannon fodder.

    78. Jim says:

      Royals and world leaders have gathered for ceremonies marking 100 years since Britain joined World War One.
      Shouldn’t we be celebrating the end of WW1 not the beginning?

    79. Andy-B says:

      To see Prince Charles today at the High Kirk of Glasgow, with his chest full of medals, even though he’s never seen a days action in his life reminded men despots like Gadaffi, and Hussein.

      I’ve never heard of the commemoration of the beginning of a war its unheard of, and to add insult to injury, its taking place in Glasgow, only because the referendum on independence is around the corner its a disgraceful slight on the memory of all the dead soldiers, of WWI, in my eyes.

    80. Martin says:

      The celebration of the start (the f***ing START) of a war shames me deeply. I’m all for celebrating the end of bloodshed, but the start. Jesus. It’s not even as if it was the grand crusade against Hitler, this was a pointless war built on ego and bluster that robbed a generation of men and led to the crippling of a country that was only just brought into existence and certainly did not start the war, which in turn led to Nazism. Yay, let’s celebrate that. Sickening.

    81. Harry McAye says:

      Yes, why is Scotland and Glasgow the centre of the universe suddenly for all things armed forces. First Stirling and Armed Forces Day, beating Portsmouth along the way and now Cameron in Glasgow today. I just can’t work it out.

    82. G H Graham says:

      Am I the only one who thinks Israel is hammering Gaza so hard in an attempt to draw a military response from Iran which then gives Israel the moral excuse it thinks it needs to bomb Iran’s nuclear weapons labs?

    83. Andy-B says:

      @G H Graham.

      Here you go Graham, this part of the answer.

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/08/04/media-friends-of-israel/

    84. Marco McGinty says:

      Following Cameron’s disgraceful interview outside Glasgow Cathedral this morning, I tried to make a post, but it didn’t go through. I was disgusted at his refusal to condemn the Israeli attacks on Gaza, and putting all of the blame on Hamas.

      The Yes Campaign must get hold of this interview, and challenge him with it at every opportunity.

    85. Marco McGinty says:

      And I’ve been trying to post a transcript of the interview, without any success. However, the interview is on YouTube

      So, in that short report, the Prime Minister has twice questioned the authenticity of the bombing attacks on Gaza, and because he’s not an international lawyer, he is not in a position to comment if International Law has been broken. One wonders how he can possibly comment on other international aspects? In a recent press conference, he stated “And Russia has acted in flagrant breach of international law.” See here

      So he must have been a qualified International Lawyer in March, but something must have happened between then and now that makes it impossible for him to comment? Could it be that he failed to re-register as an International Lawyer and he’s been temporarily suspended? Or could it be that the man is a sly, deceitful, BT supporter, and one that purposefully dodges simple questions, just like Jim “The Ranter” Murphy (and more or less everyone else in the No camp)?

      The Yes Campaign must use this interview, and challenge him with it at every opportunity.

    86. Marco McGinty says:

      Obviously, I am not permitted to post links.

    87. JimnArlene says:

      Having just watched, the celebration of war, on the news. I think Harry and his comrades, would be right in thinking; they (the politicians and press) have learned nothing.

    88. Jim says:

      They can take their candle and shove it right up their sphincters.
      I for one will not celebrate the beginning of a war which caused 16 million deaths and 20 million wounded.
      Seven Million civilians killed, just roll that off your tongue and imagine the population of this country and more wiped out!

    89. Ann says:

      I won’t celebrate the start of WW1 and I won’t be putting my lights out between 10-11 in remembrance.

      I’ll wait until the 11th November 2018.

      I lost my great grandfather and great uncle from my mums side of the family in the Great War.

      My great grandfather enlisted on the 11th May 1915. Was posted to the Front after basic training on 27th July and was posted missing presumed dead on the opening day of Loos on 25th September 1915, leaving behind a widow with a young son and a baby on the way.

      My great uncle was the baby of the family and died aged 20 when he was killed in action on 18th August 1916. Another who didn’t see his child born.

      Do I want to celebrate that? Most certainly not.

      Thankfully many of my other great uncles and great grandfather on my dad side of the family came through the carnage, but as said above some took the one way ticket to Canada, America, Australia never to return.

      I agree about our children going to Belgium and France.

      My daughter and niece have been.

      You can read all the books you like as I have done, but you have to be there to see the grand scale of the cemeteries and the memorials to get a better understanding of the huges losses suffered by both sides… and for what?

      It certainly wasn’t Dulce et Decorum Est Pro Patri Amori.
      They didn’t die. They were slaughtered.

    90. Croompenstein says:

      @Ann – by far the best post I have read, tears in my eyes, the last line in your post took my breath away

    91. west_lothian_questioner says:

      To paraphrase from the play, Observe the Sons of Ulster Marching Toward the Somme… our grandfathers and great grandfathers did not make a sacrifice… they WERE the bloody sacrifice.

      No more.

    92. Croompenstein says:

      @Ann – I have shared your post on facebook as I want all my friends to read your words on this day as I have had loads of them going on about turning their lights off and candles, I wonder if they still will after they have read your words on the subject

    93. Ann says:

      Be my guest.

    94. Jim says:

      @Ann
      I just don’t understand it, for the life of me cannot fathom why we should celebrate the heralding of a war that was basically a turkey shoot with the loss of millions.
      They say, “To the victor the spoils”, but, no poor man, woman or child benefited from this slaughter only the rich profited by the blood of our forebearers.
      This really is a shameful episode in history when we are expected to commemorate the death sentences handed out via the 1st world war.

    95. Jim says:

      @Croompenstein
      Unfortunately this is media control at it’s finest, mass hysteria I think they call it.

    96. Jim says:

      When the majority stop killing each other at the behest of the minority rich then that would be something worth celebrating.
      Vote for the independence of Scotland and stop our involvement in illegal wars which always results in the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians, people just like you with aspirations of a better life. People having to bury their children because they have been cluster bombed by another country.
      Unfortunately our hands are bloodied by association and it will take a long time to remove the stains!

    97. Jim says:

      What next guys, Americans celebrating the time they detonated little boy over Hiroshima followed by a country wide celebration and public holiday to commemorate fat man exploding over Nagasaki.
      These people are laughing at us, getting people to commemorate the day our forebearers became lambs to the slaughter, shame on them but then, they have none.

    98. Ken500 says:

      An abuse of power.

      Three royal cousins fell out.

      Millions died

    99. Ken500 says:

      Why is Cameron in Scotland again.

      Is the Referendum not ‘a matter for the Scots’?

      The coward would not debate.

    100. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Yeah, okay, I’m tired and emotional, but I’ve just gone around my hoose and switched on every light there is in the place.

      And it’s still not enough.

      We need more light.

    101. Ken500 says:

      The absolute abuse of power

      Three inbred royal cousins fell out. Victoria’s grandsons

      Millions died and life became a living hell

    102. Peter Macbeastie says:

      This morning I am hearing revisionism being produced on the BBC; it’s very much in tune with Dan Snow’s ‘most soldiers who went out in World War One didn’t die on the battlefields.’

      Now it’s 900,000… because they’re ‘only’ counting the service personnel who died in battle.

      Millions upon millions of PEOPLE died in that war. Screwing about with the numbers for some modern purpose is just crass; but in fairness it is no more crass than commemorating the start of a war.

      One of my old Navy mates had a minor pop at me for suggesting the BBC coverage early yesterday morning could barely wait to dump the successful Commonwealth Games to instead concentrate heavily on the abject failure of diplomacy. Thought I was being disrespectful to those who died. Put him sharply right; mostly I am being very deliberately disrespectful to the fuckers who think it’s appropriate to mark the start of a mass slaughter.

      Four years of this, folks, according to the BBC last night. Ceremonies to mark major events throughout the war. If you aren’t annoyed about it already believe me when I say you will be. They are using the sacrifice of a generation of young folk to engender a feeling of cozy shared sacrifice and togetherness. See where that’s going? Ignore it for the cynical as fuck manipulation it is.



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