A small exaggeration
The SNP has made hay with the damning appraisal of Scottish Labour’s “Devo Nano” plans which was delivered this week by charity think-tank Reform Scotland, and in particular its rejection of Labour’s claims that the proposals would mean Holyrood raising 40% of its own budget.
(As we’ve noted before, we’re not very sure why anyone’s meant to find that exciting anyway. You don’t make a difference to society by changing the address of the tax office, you make it by changing what you spend your money on.)
Because it looks, not for the first time, as if Labour’s got its sums wildly wrong.
It must be said that things have reached quite a pass if Labour has managed to make Devo Plus look half-hearted and insipid. That particular group’s website has been updated precisely twice in the last 16 months, and it’s probably fair to say that it hasn’t set the Scottish public’s imagination alight.
And yet the “Devo Plus” manifesto – much mocked and ignored, including, we must admit, by this site – is still at least a far more radical proposition than Labour has put forward, proposing full command of income tax, devolution of Corporation Tax, and other changes that would see Holyrood in charge of 60% of Scottish Government revenue.
But we’re getting off the point. Reform Scotland released a handy infographic challenging Labour’s assertion, and suggesting that in fact the figure was just over 26%, rather than 40%.
Labour is yet to issue a response, as far as we’re aware, although when Johann Lamont was challenged by STV’s John Mackay about the figure on Tuesday’s edition of Scotland Tonight (4m 30s), she merely said it “felt right”, and that it was “not really a matter of arithmetic”, which we suppose is one way of getting around the problem.
(Lamont gabbled on for about another minute after those lines, and Mackay, perhaps stunned, didn’t go back and press her on it.)
But even the Reform Scotland calculation is based on the premise that Labour could deliver on its pledge. In reality, as we’ve already explored today, the chances of the party actually being able to devolve Housing Benefit – which would require extricating it from Universal Credit, in contravention of every single principle behind the very existence of Universal Credit – are slim to nil, and we’re lying about the “slim” part.
So what are Labour actually offering, over and above the powers that are already coming to Holyrood via the Scotland Act 2012 (the blue column in the graph above)? If you remove the Housing Benefit figures, you’re left with income of £8,969m and expenditure of £39,046m.
That means that “Devo Nano” would in fact raise the percentage of Scottish Parliament expenditure that the Parliament raised itself from 22.5% to… 23%.
We contacted Scottish Labour ourselves for an explanation, and to our surprise we received a reply from a spokesman within the hour, stating that “The 40% figure is absolutely accurate, and Reform Scotland’s misinterpretation can be understood if you look at the section of our report headed oh look, a squirrel!”
We have got to stop falling for that.
It’s 40% because they say so.
Stop looking at the evidence & facts to the contrary.
If Stairheid says it’s 40%, then it’s 40%. She doesn’t even know how it got to 40% or 23% or any ratio but that’s besides the point.
According to Labourspeak/Groupthink/Bonkersarithmetic, it’s 40%, so that’s settled then.
So many “wee things” today …
Squirrels, new Devo-mini-thingys, indyref poll leads …
Schoolteachers & Sums.
Surprised you’ve resisted the obvious cartoon so far
What percentage of these nuts has he devolved to me? Or will he just grab them back.
C’mon Stu. 40% of sweet FA is still, technically, oh look a squirrel.
That squirrel, it’s not named Iain is it? It’s the wrong colour for RIC. #JustAsking
Seems there’s no business uncertainty here.
link to falkirkherald.co.uk
I have it, I’ve finally figured Labour out; they’re using Discworld Trollcount rather than the more conventional base-10 decimal mathematics employed by the rest of humanity;
“One, Two, Three, Many,
Many-One, Many-Two, Many-Three, Many-Many,
Many-Many-One, Many-Many-Two, Many-Many-Three, Many-Many-Many,
Many-Many-Many-One, Many-Many-Many-Two, Many-Many-Many-Three, Lots”
Anyone else fancy turning up outside the Labour Party conference in Perth this weekend with squirrel placards?
Thank god for squirrels…..
Before you get any complaints from the BT mob, I really think you should black out the face of the squirrel so it can’t be identified.
Come on guys…You’re being a bit….harsh…Lamont is an English teacher…not a maths teacher…
On a separate note, and apologies for going so early, I’ve just seen Newsnight interview with Danny Alexander talking about the “Bingo!” patronising piece of crap that the Tories were tweeting (link to bbc.co.uk )….I”m sure I’d seen the interview before…then I found it! link to youtube.com
Awkward to the last.
The squirrel is proverbially frugal. In that respect it doesn’t resemble the Labour party.
The squirrel is also famed for assembling a large collection of nuts in one place. In that respect it resembles the Labour party very closely indeed.
The more you dig into this Rev, the more you must be driven to the conclusion that it is so inept as to raise the real possibility that they mean to lose the Referendum without admitting it to their London HQ.
Talking of 40%, Reuters has the results of a Panelbase poll carried out this month up to the 14th of March.
Yes 40%
No 45%
DK 15%
A drop of 2% on the no side.
I apologise if this is old news.
link to reuters.com
Them dammed squirrels, Maybe it was a squirrel that was laughing at the back of Lamont’s interview or will we now have squirrels with red ties (No I would not do that to a squirrel I’d eat it first.)
Stu, you’ve earned yourself a holiday. It’s not that far from Bath to Poole. Take a boat across to Brownsea island. The whole island is hoaching with lovely cuddly RED squirrels.
I’m unable to view the Scotland Tonight link. Anyone else having this issue?
Well it seems the Scottish Polis are talking to the Met,re
Inteligence,they must getting ready tae arrest the Lab party fur their insults tae oor Inteligence.
Were Westminster not gratuitous and grant us control of airgun legislation?
Anyhoos,if its a “Gray” a decoy sandwich will soon put it in your sights.
I’ll see you’re 40% Andy-B and raise it to 83%
link to tinyurl.com
Ha, the comments box is back
I think it dissapeared to avoid difficult questions I think
The reverend Stuart Campbell would like not to answer,
such as is it true that you in fact are not rev Stu Campbell but you are in fact Dr Dolittle
SILENCE IN COURT , IF I DO NOT GET SILENCE I WILL CLEAR THE COURT
,Please answer the question Reverend Campbell, but remember you are still under oath!
AND I DO have my black cap somewhere!
SLabs DevoNano and something the squirrel left have something in common and they both have a hazelnut in every bite.. btw Killie fans might get a complex with all these squirrel jokes
Unionist Labour owned Aberdeen cooncil have wiped out all our grey squirrels where we live anyway. And they shot all the roe deer they could find too for their 1000 year royals reign over us jubilee thing. We’re all supposed to be “given” a tree each to remind of us who owns Scotland no doubt. Labour and money squandering eh. Its off topic but i like squirrels and roe deer and want rid our ghastly Labour council lot too.
Cant we crowd-source someone to dress in a Squirrel costume and get them to photo-bomb the Labour shitterati? It could be our version of Mr Chop in The Thick Of It. Project Trigger Happy seems apt.
Aye, it looks like Labour have played the 40% card … Very clever.
O/T Public Debate update
Referendum Debate at Burgh Hall Dunoon Tuesday 18th March
– Just released show of hands (Prior) 55% YES 40% NO 5% Undecided – ballot result out tomorrow.
link to facebook.com
Help me out here fellow posters, IF J Lamont becomes ill, with say flue, a does of “berry berry”, or what ever, who takes over at First Ministers Questions?, is it mumbling A. Sarwar!.
“Unionist Labour owned Aberdeen cooncil”
OWNED? Is this not what ails this country that the Labour party thinks it OWNS councils?
Can we just make a pact here and now to remind the Labour party they are owners of NOTHING,
they are the servants of the people, not the other way round!
In 1979, Scotland voted narrowly ‘Yes’ in a post-legislation referendum – by 51.6 % to 48.4%. But it was not enough to surmount the hurdle introduced by a backbench Labour MP that 40% of the total Scottish electorate must turn out in support of the measure.
bfh-Has it always been Labour MPs who have put amendments to block further powers for Scotland?
o/t
Heedtracker
both Roe deer and grey squirrels are a right royal pain in the ass and we do need to reduce the deer numbers and eliminate the Grays,
no please don’t throw things at me
ouch that really hurt ;(
If Johann Lamont had a pet squirrel, would she call him Luke?
Helpmaboab says
“The squirrel is also famed for assembling a large collection of nuts in one place. In that respect it resembles the Labour party very closely indeed.”
JINGS CRIVVENS
@Alabaman says:
Help me out here fellow posters, IF J Lamont becomes ill, with say flue, a does of “berry berry”, or what ever, who takes over at First Ministers Questions?, is it mumbling A. Sarwar!.
link to youtu.be
Some late night viewing for insomniacs, 4 hours of “Tufty the Squirrel”. After all, this is the level SLabour are pitching at.
link to youtube.com
Trust Labour and trust Squirrels at your peril…
link to youtube.com
O/T on Twitter..
Look out squirrel! Here’s a fox!
Carol Fox resigning from Labour & coming out in support of WomenforIndy.
@Albhama,in answer to yur question, naw,Sarwar,s no a MSP.
I see GA Posonby over in Newsnetscotland is discussing the panelbase poll which shows that the BT allaince with the Tories has damaged Labour.
Over 2/3 (66%) believe labour have been harmed with only 1/3 (34%) saying the party had not been damaged (excl DK).
Surprise Surprise.
As a life long labour supporter I’d been thinking of resigning for a number of years and finally did when Ed Balls came out and issued his statement supporting Osborne on the pound. That was it for me.
A debate on BBC2 next week
link to twitter.com
Jim Sillars V George Galloway
Big focus on ITN news tonight (10.00pm) about why Glasgow is deserting Labour.
Trailer looks promising.
Might be worth a watch; talking to locals on eve of Labour conference. Could be most embarrassing, but just remembered current Scottish regime has no shame.
O/T Hardcore British nationalist, Brian Wilson, decrying nationalism and rehearsing a range of wholly discredited old chestnuts. Cosy chat with fellow dinosaur, George Galloway…
link to youtube.com
Starts around 14.00. You won’t thank me.
Desimond
I don’t know about you, but I think this has been one of the more amusing (unhinged) days on WOS and it is almost entirely down to the outright failure of the leading unionist party to offer anything to save the union.
Not that I would want to save the union, but is that not both depressing and alarming, if you really look at what it means? That the Westminster bubble has such little respect for the Scottish nation and yet BT still have a chance.
This is all London would allow to be offered?
BTW, it took me a while before I could post after your vid.
Bats aren’t funny. 
Whooo.
Proadge
Seriously – sooner rattle ma shins wi’ a hammer fur half an hour, than watch that pair o’lady parts.
What is killing Labour at the moment is the change in reporting.
Once the were confident of announcing any “data” and having it faithfully reported in the media unchallenged. Even if a group / charity or academic study challenged their figures Labour new it would never see the light of day.
Now – it’s all changed the internet gathers and collates. It makes it available to those who can refine and confirm.
Every story such as this confirms the degree to which the media has misled it’s audience.
The 2 years Labour spent creating waffle that could be spun collapsed in hours. They have misjudged the change taking place in communication.
I see how we have been controlled for all these years and I will never trust the media again.
But…But squirrels are CUTE!
Seriously, if the squirrels and the pandas joined forces and started up their own party to run for government in an independent Scotland, I’d probably vote for them!
(Unless their policies were racist towards rabbits. ‘cos I like rabbits too!)
@Clootie
“What is killing Labour at the moment is the change in reporting.”
This is very true, the longer they stay behind the learning curve the better.
“Bats aren’t funny.
Whooo.”
Oh really?
@clootie
The way the media is used and absorbed by the public has been the biggest wake up call for me, their propaganda and lies are being dissected daily by proper journalists.
As long as I breathe I will educate folks on their tactics, they will never have the free ride again to brainwash.
The lazy bastards need to stop sniffing the white stuff and start being on the ball reporters for their own good.
I stand corrected.
Not a very smart idea though, going up to someone like that when they are at an cash-point. In American.
Stu, I read your last paragraph to my wife who normally cannot be bothered with anything to do with politics and she laughed out loud for about a minute. You may have hit on the way to engage with politically disconnected, don’t have time, female voters – interract via squirrels.
O/T Today’s Panelbase poll for Newsnet is really good isn’t it? Surprised more hasn’t been made of it on here as yet.
And on the topic of polls, just did one for YouGov, a very straight IndyRef poll, almost certainly for the Times as they asked if I’d agree to be interviewed by that newspaper at the end. YouGov is hopelessly skewed of course but I confidently look forward to seeing a positive swing from their last poll.
Oneironaut says:
But…But squirrels are CUTE!
Seriously, if the squirrels and the pandas joined forces and started up their own party to run for government in an independent Scotland, I’d probably vote for them!
(Unless their policies were racist towards rabbits. ‘cos I like rabbits too!)
Rabbits are unionits,don’t see any for ages then you stumble on one and next there’s a dozen running for cover because they’ve been found out.
Squirrel this, squirrel that, ok I give in, where can I get a squirrel armband?
Sorry for the language folks, I agree it helps nothing but sometimes it is very apt.
Yes, we can all laugh at the Labour party’s feeble attempts at any kind of coherent policy, and yes we all know that their ideas fall apart, especially under Stuart’s forensic examination. The same can be said about “Project Fear” whose sole idea now seems to be the same regurgitated false scare stories that are long past their sell-by date. But, and I believe it’s a big but. This is the “state”, Westminster, we are fighting, and between now and the 18th, September, they will use every dirty trick in the book, and no doubt some that aren’t spoken about. They don’t like losing, and if the polls even suggest that we are going to win, watch out.
“require extricating it from Universal Credit, in contravention of every single principle behind the very existence of Universal Credit”
UC is dead dead dead and HB is never going to be put into it in the first place.
@proadge,I will thank you all the same,George is allways
good fur a chuckle.
Video of the Debate at Dundee & Angus College campus;
link to tinyurl.com
“But, and I believe it’s a big but.” I like big buts, in more ways than one:D
Oh good grief.
So basically its an even more epic screw up than first thought?
Back to squirrel watching.
So is this going to be a twitter campaign with the #devosquirrell ?
Also, slightly o/t, again, apologies, twice in one thread…
Has anyone else seen that the Health Minister for Wales has welcomed a report that includes a call for a minimum pricing of alcohol? link to bbc.co.uk
I’m not sure which is the worst, labours proposals, the way they have tried to promote them or the lack of the MSM pulling them up for the shambles of the last 2 days.
short video of Alan Cumming being interviewed on the Wall Street Journal;
link to live.wsj.com
@ Oneironaut
Please drop me a line at bill_urquhart@hotmail.com it’s to your advantage
Does anyone have a programme for the SLab conference? Not that I want to go. Just wondering.
Do you have you be a member to get in?
(Gor blimey guv, talk about a ‘feed’? – go for it, someone…)
Will they be having ‘break-out’ groups? i.e. which groups will try to break out first? Methinks it will be all and sundry associated with this Playskool report. Did you know it’s been printed on tracing paper? Aye – with the slightest bit of pressure you can see right through it.
Boom-boom!
Well, at the risk of sounding ‘pro Labour’, and I am definately not. Perhaps JL really did thunk she could make a difference. Forgetting that devolution was always to be ‘joined up government’, difering only when the Tories were in power.
What she has found is that her leadership is ‘devolved’, her wishes are at the ‘reserved’ disposal of her bretherin.
IMHO, that is why she is unable to ‘square the circle’, and leaving herself out to dry. Maybe she has more guts than her predecessor, learning the lesson the hard way. If true, I can muster a modicum of respect for her. What I truly wonder at, however, is why shy did not learn the lesson from Henry, who really did try to devolve?
Actually cannae wait to see if Flipper, F*ck off Murphy, Chairchoob, HMS Hood, Anus, Dontahoe and the rest of the soon to be redundant SLab MP’s turn up at the conference and especially if they are there for the ‘leaders’ speech..could be good
Rev,
I take my hat off to yourself, and all the others who have managed to work out what the **** Labour are gibbering about!
I am no longer surprised that Johann just blethered away some sort of regurgitated political-type thesaurus to Brewer the other night, and I take my hat off to the man that he was able to see through the fog of lies / deception/ drivel / pish (and still work out!) what the **** she was trying to say (if even she was doing that!)
Well done guys.
O.K. folks this is purely for those undecided amongst us, and we all know who we are now don’t we! Just to give all those undecideds amongst us some hope I have already done the questionaire and come up as an UNDECIDED! No seriously I am *drum roll please* a YES voter.
link to tinyurl.com
I can assure you all that the Squirrels are all on side…..
link to facebook.com
Marcia I think a George Galloway v T Sheridan would produce more fireworks!.
I did not think A. Sanwar could parachute into “F.M.Q.” , so who’s the deputy’s deputy ?! . Also watched A . Carmichael giving evidence to the European committee , ALL of it!!, what a absolute arc———-le that fellow is, the sooner he, and his like are tossed onto the scrap heap the better, if any of you want to feel how it is to be REALLY angry , have a look at the TV archive .
http://longtermplan.org.uk Osbornes Long term plan for YOUR area.
Squirrel Towers says:
I can assure you all that the Squirrels are all on side…..
link to facebook.com
I’m not currently on Facebook but I’m sorely tempted to sign up just so as I can be friends with Squirrels for YES!
Ok,
Just back from the Business For Scotland Aberdeen event.
A very good evening with some good questions.
It was a pleasure to meet Ivan McKee and I wish I could remember the name of the guy who was handing out the ‘Aye Right’ leaflets that was sat next to me.
If you get a chance, please go to the other BfS events as they are very good.
NNS story. Pressure on Carmichael to clarify his outburst a few days ago by the Scottish Parliament’s Europe and External Relations Committee. Rev had a thread on it.
At the NFUS debate on Monday, Mr Carmichael said that the leaders of the three main UK parties were ‘completely committed’ to remaining part of Europe and that there was no real prospect of a UK referendum on EU membership because of there not being a ‘mechanism’ for the Conservative party to deliver one.
Mr Carmicheal said, to gasps of disbelief from the audience: “There is no question of there being a referendum. There is no mechanism for the Conservatives to deliver a referendum 2017. That is the hard political fact.”
That will be like his ‘International public law’ reference last year.
Albaman
Thanks for the warning.. just read your comment on Carmichael. Might leave it until tomorrow.
Look out folks cause after we win a YES victory in September it will not be the Scottish government who will be negotiating Scotland’s future in the E.U. it will be the Westminster government. WOW! This must be true cause Alistair Carmichael is reported to have said it.
link to tinyurl.com
I was phoned yesterday by ipsos mori for an Indy opinion poll. They asked the yes/no question first then bombarded me with questions straight out of the no campaign fear tactics book. It was like being grilled by alaistair Darling. No wonder ipsos mori polls are more skewed in favour of no.
@Eric – love it. Clicked on Glasgow, then Dundee, then Edinburgh, then London – nearly spat the wine all over laptop
Arbroath
I’m a YES and so is my English better half
“It’s not a matter of arithmetic it’s a matter of judgement.” WHIT?
Surely you have to be good at arithmetic to produce your figures. Using your judgement surely means she is just plucking figures out of thin air…OOPS I forgot that IS what she is doing, my mistake!
I see Yahoo has decided to move to Dublin. Theresa May held talks with the internet firm over its concerns over the UK surveillance activity, which is partially behind the decision to leave the UK. When asked about the meeting a Home Office spokesperson said: “We do not confirm the details of private meetings.”……
….”we just listen to them”.
seasick Dave
I think you’d be hard pressed NOT to come out as a YES voter on that questionaire, but hey ho every little helps.
Referring back to the theme of this article on Devo Nano, Devo Anything enables Westminster to continue to invoice Scotland for whatever costs it can dream up. Servicing the UK debt, defence, Trident, Civil Service administration, House of Lords etc etc.
And hats off to Clootie. “The Labour party spent two years creating waffle that could be spun” – in the past by the BBC and MSM – “and it collapsed within hours” – thanks to the internet and analysis by sites like WOS.
Squirrels….weapons of mass distraction!
For anyone who is up to date with their distributional analysis then this might be for you. Here is the Westminster government’s “Impact on households” distributional analysis to accompany the 2014 budget.
link to tinyurl.com
Look Annibale they don’t get distract…….
Anyhow OT still further…..Calling all Perthshire squirrels – a group of Perth & Kinross Yes are manning a stall so If you’re at a loose end over weekend, why not go and say hello to Johann, she’ll be at the Concert Hall, she’ll be looking out for you when Big Brian asks her a difficult question (..we know, it does happen occasionally..)
link to facebook.com
Mr Carmichael Sec State Scotland has just gone OTT.
Report in Herald got in through ‘chrome’ but no archive allowed. EU will remove our citizenship if we vote YES
Mr Carmichael also rejected the opinion of European Court judge Sir David Edward, who said Scottish citizens would not automatically lose their EU citizenship if they voted to leave the UK.
He cited the case of suspected fraudster Janko Rottman, who lost his German and Austrian dual citizenship and was rendered stateless by the EU.
Mr Carmichael said: “The court heard that a member state must exercise its powers to withdraw an individual’s nationality compatibly with the principles of EU law.
“That in itself is a very clear recognition by the European Court of Justice that the question of citizenship in EU terms of the sort that Sir David was talking about is quite different and that it can indeed be withdrawn.
“And I think it would be quite consistent with that judgement to say that if Scotland were to vote to leave the UK and tends to leave the EU then one of the consequences of that would be a loss of EU citizenship.
“That would certainly not be contrary to any principles of EU law.”
Even for a Tammany Hall machine “poly-tishun” ready and willing to do as she’s told, I’d be surprised if Johann Lamont survives the gobbldeygook clap-trap she spouts.
She does not know her limitations. Now others do.
Stand ready for rebellion in Labour’s ranks, and grumbles about replacing her.
She has to be the sacrificial victim if the Yes vote adds another two points to its momentum and scares the bejaysus out of the ragbag of lickspittle unionist bosses and their paid henchmen.
Consider this:
“As the Referendum approaches I feel the right thing to do is stand aside to let those better equipped convince the people of Scotland the United Kingdom is the only way forward.”
Yes, the people of Scotland need a completely futile gesture to block their destiny and keep them obedient … just like Johann.
Re: Carmichael on EU. The comments in the herald on the story are well worth a peek. Quite safe no OBE …yet.
Carmichael has gone doolally.
Rev- please get the Carmichael comment out there, Fuckin Guinea pigs are we – Let everyone one in Scotland hear what this man thinks
I’m happy NOT to hear Carmichael, or Alexander One and Two or any other nonentity tell Scotland they are in charge.
Took the questionnaire -I’m a Yes!.
It must be contagious.
Time for Cyril the Squirrel to meet Wee Hamish?
Chris?
Just to say that I have a wee squirrel who visits my garden every day for peanuts and also comes halfway into the house ergo, I call him Tam(e)ish, as he’s only half tame.
If he’s in earshot, he comes when I call his name as he knows he’ll get some monkey nuts in their shell, his favourites.
So we could have Hamish and Tamish. Simples.
If you like big buts Heedtracker (and Im sure you cannot lie) heres some big butt
link to youtube.com
Just dont tell BtP
Carmichael’s citing of the Rottman case is utter – well, rot…
As the case itself notes, the member state can in certain circumstances withdraw a citizen’s EU citizenship, not the EU. So the only way Carmichael’s logic can work is if either state involved for Scottish citizens – the UK during negotiation or Scotland after them – withdraws the EU citizenship of all 5.3 million Scots. That is not going to happen, and even if they tried, it would undoubtedly be challenged in a Scottish court, and fail due to the nature of Scottish sovereignty.
@alexocon, 5:31pm yesterday:
BBC Radio Scotland covered the Alexanders deal. The radio interviewer tried to get some quote out of the bus guy about referendum/independence uncertainty, but he was having none of it.
@ call me dave (11:01)
I have just read the Rottman judgement in full
It says no such thing.
link to eur-lex.europa.eu
Fiona
I am not surprised, but Carmichael expresses a contrary view.
However he may regret his outburst of yesterday in the cold light of a new day.
I,m hearing that another political pigmy from down south is going to make a speech in which he will claim that a combination of Scottish independence, and a Tory victory in the 2015 General Election, will be a race to the bottom. Now while the latter part of his statement might well be correct, who the hell does he think he is dragging us into the cesspit that is Westminster.The arrogance of these people knows no bounds. They seem to think that they own us lock, stock, and North Sea oil, well, at the moment they actually do, but come the 18th September we can change all that, for good. Not that he, Miliband, has any chace of winning the aforementioned election, but the prospect of being governed by Boris and Nigel, is even more repellant. If that scenario comes to pass, then we can kiss goodbye not only to any chance of being an independent country, ever, but also to a Scottish Parliament, as I believe Westminster would gradally denude Holyrood of it limited powers, and then finally abolish it altogether.
I’m sure if the squirrels all stood for labour there are those who would still vote fer them, of course they would have to be red squirrels