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A short satire on triangulation

Posted on March 21, 2014 by

The last 40 years of UK politics accurately summarised in 30 seconds.

(From episode 3 of Stewart Lee’s Comedy Vehicle, still on iPlayer at time of writing.)

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    105 to “A short satire on triangulation”

    1. benarmine says:

      Caught that the other night, he is excellent. Did a funny bit about Scots and toilet cakes too.

    2. bookie from hell says:

      Brillant

    3. Triskelion says:

      True! And yet some people still believe that Labour will come to rescue scotland if they win an election!
      They can’t see that all Westminster parties have joined together in some sort of Liberal Laboratory Party that only cares for itself.

    4. K Mackay says:

      I’d like to see that clip in a Yes campaign tv advert, perfect summing up of the state we’re in (but not for much longer now)!

    5. Juteman says:

      The Labour party wouldn’t call it a binbag, though. They would call it an aid to self improvement.
      The Tories would sell the binbag to the poor, calling it an aid to self improvement.

    6. gordoz says:

      F’n spot on (Bill Hick’s would be proud !)

    7. Stewart Lee is the best stand up comedian and I cannot imagine him prostituting himself like a certain other stand up has this week. Unless your his mum then it’s Tom O’Connor.

      He has plenty of stuff on YT and I cannot reccomend him high enough.

    8. heedtracker says:

      I think that sudden flash of “bettertogether” pays my mortgage” honesty from Rob Shortbhouse is even more tragicomic. If you’re reading this Rob, quit now and get a proper job before its too late.

    9. joe kane says:

      Miliband seemed to claim today in his speech in Perth that Labour, unlike the SNP, were always against the bedroom tax. Well, just in case there’s any confusion about Labour’s support for Atos. From 2011 –
      Iain Gray and Ed Miliband also met with staff at Atos Origin in Livingston…Mr Miliband said: “I am very pleased…Iain Gray invited me to see the great work that goes on in Atos Origin…”
      http://archive.is/8ez8E#selection-789.0-799.190

      ps
      That webepage is no longer available on the Scottish Labour website so, to make up for it, here is an image gallery of the two Labour leaders’ visit to Atos HQ in Livingston, Fife –
      http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/lZEXo_HozEn/Ed+Miliband+Scottish+Labour+Leader+Iain+Gray/HA43DjpYlBU

    10. bookie from hell says:

      what’s Atos?

    11. Bob W says:

      @joe kane

      Livingston must have moved since my last visit, it takes a journey across the Forth Road Bridge, from my home in Fife, to get there. Might have been transplanted, due to BBC weather map measurement though.

    12. john king says:

      Whats he on about?
      tied in a binbag and thrown into the canal?
      bloody pinko communist that’s too good for em,
      send then to fight the brown people,
      that’s what I say ,
      make men of em.

    13. Zen Broon says:

      Lee is pretty funny, sure, but check out the anti-Scottish drivel he was spouting in his column for the Observer a while back. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/stewart-lee-salmond-scotland-independence

    14. AnneDon says:

      In that same episode, he said that the Tories were set to become the first self-parodying party.

      Three days later, Grant Shapps released his beer and bingo advert.

    15. JLT says:

      To be honest, I don’t think these politicians get this …’today Miliband and Gray met staff at ATOS…’ thus making it out that the staff were just dying to meet these great Labour stalwarts and thus, air their grievances about how terrible a state Britain is in, and how they are all ears as to how these top London boys are going to sort it all out.

      Some of my mates have met both Labour politicians, as well as the few Tory ones that came up to view either the oil rigs, or the defence contracts (because Tory Politicians aren’t coming to Livingston to talk to nurses at St. Johns Hospital. Naw! The only thing close to Viagra for the Tories is talking about the oil or getting up close to weapons that will annihilate a small town in Iraq or a wee village in down town Kandahar!)

      What the likes of Ed, Iain, David, George or whoever comes up from London don’t get, is that the person that they are speaking to, isn’t interested one iota in meeting them, let alone, talk to them.
      In fact, the truth is, that what IS running through the person’s head is the 20 different ways of how to stab the person before them, before screaming at them,’DINNAE TALK TO ME IN FRONT OF MA WORK COLLEAGUES! GET THE F*** OUT OF MA FACE, YA WEE ___________ (fill in the blank with appropriate sweary words).

      Pound to a penny that the moment that the bastion of British socialism left the room, that everyone glanced around the room, raised their eyebrows, shook their heads, and muttered under their breath, ‘…tossers’.

    16. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      I found this on the BBC web site …

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-26666259

      I was going to put an entry into the completion but was too late..

      ” Alex Salmond takes up Danny Alexander’s request of an independence debate”.

      Ssomehow I do not think it would have won.

    17. CameronB says:

      “Bear and Bingo”! How cynical can a government get? It really is bread and circuses.

    18. Jimbo says:

      Re Joe Kane’s link to photo @ 6.57 pm.

      Is that Blair McDougall standing in the background at the door of Atos?

    19. Stuart Black says:

      My apologies for re-posting this off topic (sorry Rev Stu) but, as disturbed as I was at the seeming indifference in the Herald, I’m even more disturbed at the lack of response here.

      Is this of no interest to Wingers? (from the previous thread).

      @ Big Red Machine, yes, I was very taken aback by that story, and I also found the lack of feedback disturbing. Arbroath 1320 linked to it on Munguin’s, I believe, but I have seen little else, and it was certainly not pursued on the Herald letters page. Below is an email I sent to my wife, and my pal, the same day.

      “Herald Headline: MoD wants to dump radioactive waste into Clyde.

      The headline is misleading: they are not applying for permission to dump liquid radioactive waste into the Gareloch, and by extension, the Clyde. They are already doing it. They want permission to dump MORE liquid radioactive waste into the Gareloch.

      They are also applying to eject more tritium gas into the atmosphere from Coulport than they are doing at present. Yes indeedy, they are releasing tritium into the atmosphere around the Central belt of Scotland. It’s perfectly safe, of course.

      Two questions leaped out at me (I knew nothing of this until 4 days ago).

      1. Who actually knows this is happening? In the general population I mean? 1 in every 10,000 if we’re lucky. Why do we not know? You don’t need to answer that, we don’t know because they want to keep doing it.

      2. Would Parliament agree to releasing tritium gas into the atmosphere within 25 miles of London? And sanction the dumping of liquid radioactive waste into the Thames? You don’t need to answer that either, I think we all know it already.

      We’re Better Together? Aye right!”

      A further point, the mendacious Ms Baillie has deep concerns for her constituents, and the 11,000 jobs (sic) that she claims will be lost on independence. In her capacity as Health spokesperson, has anyone heard her raising concerns about her constituents regarding this radioactive dumping? And if not, why not? Anyone who participates in a debate in which she is taking part would be well advised to ask her for an explanation. Though I can tell you the answer now, perm any one from two, the Bobby Bungalow approach, “No, it is not true”, or “these releases are within guidelines set out by” – add your own professional body here.

      Shorthouse is wrong, by the way, tritium is a common and standard by-product of work done on nuclear warheads, a less likeable form of hydrogen, and it has to go somewhere. It seems the MoD think it best that that be in Scotland though, eh?

    20. Stuart Black says:

      @Arbroath 1320 *waves*.

      At least someone thinks it worth a comment. 😉

    21. Doug Daniel says:

      He did this episode and the previous one at the Fringe last year (he made it clear he was using his gigs to smooth out any rough edges), and it’s even funnier the second time. The guy is a comedy genius, simple as that.

      The Observer piece shouldn’t be taken 100% seriously – he is a comedian after all!

    22. SquareHaggis says:

      @zen broon

      Thank you kindly for triangulating that back and putting mister Lee in his proper context, that of an unfunny, anti-Scottish twat!

      Calls himself a comedian? Biggest joke of all.

    23. joe kane says:

      Well spotted Jimbo.
      I didn’t realise Blair used to be a bouncer for Atos.
      Obviously his experience of working for an utterly inept and incompetent company that’s widely despised and mercilessly ridiculed, that has humanity fleeing from it in droves, has come in useful at Better Together.

    24. CameronB says:

      Stuart Black
      Might this not be a matter Police Scotland should take a look at?

    25. bunter says:

      O/T

      Wife works for LLoyds, and just mentioned that it was in the intranet at work about how Cameron paid a visit to Scottish Widows, must have been when he was up at the Tory conference.

      I am sure we all remember what happened a few days after he visited BP, so we can guess whats coming soon!

    26. JLT says:

      Stuart

      Heard about this last week. Make no bones about it, it is absolutely shocking. Could you imagine the screams of fury if nuclear waste was to be dumped in the Thames in the heart of the city of London. One rule for London; another for Scotland.

      I’ve mentioned this to my work colleagues during the week, and I posted The Herald link on Facebook last weekend.

      I tell you what, Stuart …if we do get Independence, I have no doubt that quite a few folk in London will be bricking themselves over not just this, but ALL the revelations that will be revealed as to what the hell really did go on up here. I can see quite a few folk, if not companies, being sued silly by the Scottish Parliament or various cities, towns, villages, etc. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. What else was done up here and insidiously covered up so that it wouldn’t incur the wrath of the Scottish people incase it led to calls for Independence? What has gone on up here in the last 70 years since the end of WW2? It makes you wonder!
      I honestly believe, that there will be retribution on a huge and severe financial scale, due to the sheer arrogance of London and what they thought they could get away with in Scotland.

    27. Stuart Black says:

      @Cameron B, I’m not sure of what context you could involve the police in, as I stated, the discharges are no doubt within SEPA guidelines.

      @JLT, heartfelt thanks, you have restored my faith here, thank Christ someone else thinks this is an issue. Cheers mate, and I also agree with your point made about all the other issues that could be uncovered in the inevitable event – as I stated here 18 months ago – of us regaining our status as a nation amongst all the other nations of the world.

    28. call me dave says:

      Here’s Brian T’s Big Debate. For those that missed it.

      The audience are on the ball nowadays wonder how some of them get their information…not in the papers or the BBC.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y3ws9

    29. Murray McCallum says:

      Stuart Black

      Thanks for highlighting this shocking story. The MoD are a law unto themselves in every respect. They deem themselves above the law. They do something and simply bat away the consequences – whether financial or even loss of life.

      We need to remove all nuclear installations from Scotland. A Yes vote will secure this.

      This specific story can surely only grow and get more people angry (as they should be).

    30. SquareHaggis says:

      @Stuart Black

      Thanks for highlighting this important issue.
      I hope Wings over Scotland will do an article on this soon.

      Hammond saying he’ll continue to sanction the flushing of nuclear waste into Scottish waters is totally unacceptable.

      I’d be calling for UDI – f*** waiting til September, it’s nothing less than an act of long term sabotage against a peaceful, unarmed country.

      Satellite tracking technology can identify nuclear flushing so even though these subs are “invisible” the waste emitted from them would leave a footprint.

    31. CameronB says:

      Stuart Black
      I was aware that the issue concerns the extension of current dumping and omissions, which most probably are with guidelines, but I just can’t see how it is possible to trust HMG assurances. There hasn’t been a lot of truth or good will recently.

      I just couldn’t think of any other mechanism for getting to the bottom of this, ahead of what JLT suggest may happen after independence.

    32. Croompenstein says:

      @Stuart Black – I heard about the Caithness incident but not this, I have shared on facebook. It’s symptomatic of the imperialists disdain for our people, would this be dumped in the Mersey or the Tyne? Along with others I worry about what is at the bottom of the Gareloch and how it is going to affect future generations.

    33. Jim T says:

      In addition to the Clyde dumping, we also are grateful recipients of depleted uranium shells that have been “test fired” in the range down at the Solway.

      Again that is already in the public domain but hey, it’s not important enough for the Scottish MSM to do more than maybe publish a short article once, maybe twice a few years ago when the topic of DU shells being used in Iraq was a bit of a topic when our servicemen/women were suffering from strange maladies. The Iraqi populace are having to live with the consequences right now. Children being born with deformities being part of the suspected end result.

      YES on 18th September … PLEASE!

    34. Jim T says:

      sorry, had the “topic” key pressed too often there, doh!

    35. CameronB says:

      Also, I don’t really like the idea of contaminating Scotland’s environment, especially not in the support of such a criminal enterprise as nuclear weapons.

    36. Croompenstein says:

      It’s all done cloak and dagger, the security around Faslane is tighter than a gnats chuff, we may never know the extent of what is going on. I just wonder what the imperialists said at there meeting once they had tested their nuclear bomb on some poor brown folks land “I wonder where the f*ck we can keep our new toys bearing in mind the dangers…mmmm…I think I know just the place…..”

    37. Stuart Black says:

      @SquareHaggis, yes indeed it is an important issue, I just wonder, however, if the discharge is actually taking place from the submarines. Admittedly I have little information or knowledge on this but, going by the article I have to conclude the discharge into the Gareloch is being done from Faslane.

      If it was from the submarines themselves, surely the discharge would take place mid-Atlantic?

      I have grandchildren to think of: where the fuck does Jackie Baillie stand on this?

    38. CameronB says:

      Also, just where was Britain getting it’s uranium from, once the UN started action to prevent the rape of Namibia? That’s that former German colony that was added to South Africa after WW1.

    39. SquareHaggis says:

      @jim T

      We are suffering the consequences right now.
      It takes between 5 & 30 years for this stuff to cause cancers, by that time it’ll be too late.
      No wonder Labour want us to have our own H&S lot, so we have to fit the bill for this contamination.
      Problem is SEPA colluded with the MOD on this for 2 years and cannot be trusted.

    40. Murray McCallum says:

      “The waste comes from the submarines’ reactors and includes radioactive cobalt-60 and tritium.”

      http://www.robedwards.com/2014/03/nuclear-bases-plan-to-discharge-more-radioactive-waste-into-the-clyde.html

      I’m afraid I don’t believe any assurances from the MoD on ANY safety limits, let alone radioactive ones.

    41. Stuart Black says:

      @Croompenstein, thank you for sharing this on Facebook, the more people that know of it the better. I was really quite taken aback that folks didn’t pick upon this, there are many, many other reasons why this ‘union of equal partners’ needs to be terminated as soon as feasible, and I hope and trust that the people of Scotland will be informed enough to add this particular piece of monstrousness to the list.

      And don’t forget the fragrant Ms Baillie: has she nothing to say on this?

    42. Stuart Black says:

      Rev Stu, this is important, eh?

    43. Bruce Wallace says:

      Was Miliband and Gray meeting Atos to discuss the new Childcare Scheme, got this from Independent.co.uk.

      [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/atos-given-responsibility-for-new-childcare-scheme-despite-previous-fitnessforwork-fiasco-9203256.html]

    44. memaw says:

      Stuart Black
      JLT
      Dumping ground or playground, sums up what Westminster thinks of Scotland.

      I have absolutely no doubt that they are terrified of what will be revealed when we wrest control of our own affairs. Also the amount of undisclosed revenue. I think a fair few civil servants are having sleepless nights over that. Did either of you read The Green Ribbon report: State Papers of Scotland 1974- 1975? These are government papers released in 2005 about when George Younger was Scottish Secretary.
      I don’t have a link but the gist was that he had to cut millions from the Scottish budget but keep it secret. A fascinating read as the papers also reveal that we could have had an assembly, Wales and Scotland, by the late 70s but oil got in the way. So the idea was to keep the talk of devolution going as long as possible. Yet another on the list of dirty little secrets.

    45. Fiona says:

      I did not know about this particular problem but I did look into the rules when there was the fuss about not being able to move nuclear subs to Devonport because of safety concerns. I do not know if the safety arrangements for flushing are the same but I see no reason why they would not be. If they are then you can have no confidence in the guidance at all because:

      https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27583/SMP10v22final.pdf

      and

      https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27580/SMP07v22final.pdf

      ALARP stands for “As Low As Reasonably Practicable” and is defined in Def Stan 00-56 Issue 4 as:
      “A risk is ALARP when it has been demonstrated that the cost of any further Risk Reduction, where the cost includes the loss of defence capability as well as financial
      or other resource costs, is grossly disproportionate to the benefit obtained from that Risk Reduction.”

      1.1.2 Risk and ALARP Evaluation is defined in Def Stan 00-56 Issue 4 as:
      “The systematic determination, on the basis of tolerability criteria, of whether a risk is broadly acceptable, or tolerable and ALARP, and whether any further Risk Reduction
      is necessary.”

      1.1.3 Risk and ALARP Evaluation identifies where the project currently meets tolerability
      criteria, and where further action is needed to achieve this

      Only MOD can decide what levels of Safety Risk can be tolerated in different circumstances, and balance the military or other benefits of the system against these
      Risks.

      There is no independent element in setting the “tolerability criteria” All they have to do is set out clearly what they want the safety procedures to do in the context of their own decisions about what is “tolerable”

      That had the curious effect of making Devonport unacceptable but Faslane fine. And they reached that conclusion because they looked at the effects of a disaster within a 5 kilometre radius….which makes no sense to me at all, as outlined here with the link to the guardian report on the issue.

      http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=49449627&p=372045511

    46. castle hills chavie says:

      If anyone is interested

      Anti nukes March and rally, Glasgow sat 5th April.

      11.00 assemble George Square

      11.30 start of march

      12.00 Rally George Square

      Speakers include;
      Nicola Sturgeon
      Patrick Harvie
      Lesley Riddoch

      Would be nice to see lots of shiney YES badges there.

    47. CameronB says:

      memaw
      Are we not talking? 🙂

    48. Fireproofjim says:

      Re radioactive discharges. Why was Dounreay built on the far (from London) north coast of Caithness? Simply because it was the first breeder reactor ever built, and the risks of a nuclear accident were quite high. The subsequent care and maintenance of the plant were pretty lax, and radioactive waste was simply dumped down a convenient shaft, where leaking water was heated by the radioactive waste resulting in a steam explosion which blew off the lid of the shaft and spread contamination widely around the adjacent area, where it still contaminates the local beaches.
      Similarly, the original plan was to build the first nuclear power station at Kinlochleven, again, far from London for the same reasons. Because of logistic problems it was eventually built at Windscale and sure enough it had a major fire and contaminated great swathes of the English countryside.
      Then, when plutonium was needed for the first generation of nuclear weapons,the Chapelcross nuclear power station was built in Dumfriesshire. The electricity was always only a by-product although that was never mentioned.
      Scotland has always been seen as remote from the places that mattered to Westminster, ever since the island of Gruinard was poisoned with anthrax in the war years.
      No independent Scottish government would have agreed to any of these dangerous projects.

    49. Stuart Black says:

      @Croompenstein, further to my previous reply, I would say that, yes, it might be dumped in the Mersey or the Tyne, solely because they have exactly the same amount of ‘clout’ – that weasel word again 🙂 – as we do, i.e. none whatsoever.

      I stand by my initial premise. Does anyone in Scotland, of any political persuasion (to avoid embarrassment, we’ll exclude Scottish Labour) find this acceptable?

    50. Stuart Black says:

      Jackie Baillie, if you ever come out of Gregg’s long enough to give an answer, we’re all ears. 😉

    51. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart Black –

      Your outrage is understandable, but I fear the truth is that many of us have become blasé about these issues. It’s no surprise to hear that they’re dumping any kind of shit anywhere in Scotland. For ‘them’, it makes perfect sense – it’s the equivalent of a crofter emptying the contents of their chemical toilet down at hole at the end of the plot, behind some bushes, preferably downwind.

      When we first lived in Stevenston, approx 17 years ago, we went to the beach on a beautiful summer day, had a wee carry-out, bit of a picnic, and went ‘paddling’. It was very pleasant, and I did manage to have a half-decent swim, but didn’t stay too long as it was pretty cold after a while. Anyway, to cut a long proverbial short – for three nights afterwards I couldn’t sleep, felt as if pins were being randomly jabbed into every part of my body. It was a horrible sensation, and I’ve read since that people exposed to radiation report a similar feeling – like ‘jaggy snow’ falling on your bare skin. Have never ventured into the sea since then.

      And another thing – I’ve personally found two phosphorous flares on Stevenston beach. Thinking one was an old bone, I hurled it upbeach for our Lab to chase. When the thing hit the shingle it ignited and Baxter did a canine emergency-stop just a couple of feet short of it – had to bury it and call out the Fire Brigade (a group of young lads were watching with great interest and would surely have played with it had it been left). The FB guys were quite nonchalant about it – seems it’s a fairly regular occurrence here. The other one was away out, at low tide, so I just left it alone. Locals have told me that huge amounts of munitions were simply dumped, post-WW2, in the sea somewhere between the mainland and Ailsa Craig.

      Bottom-line: we haven’t a clue what’s out there in ‘our’ sea, buried in ‘our’ mountains, or floating in ‘our’ air, and we can’t trust the bastards to tell us. Why should they?

    52. Stuart Black says:

      JLT my friend, I’m going to chide you ever so gently – it’s not we get independence – it’s <when we get independence. 😉

      Sincere best wishes…

    53. Tam Jardine says:

      Stuart Black

      Thanks for highlight this. The UK government finds places like Dounreay, the Clyde, the Gareloch, Dundrennan… they are talking about the site of Chapelcross as a potential store for toxic waste from the subs (or Sellafield just over the border). Nice and remote (from the south). They care not one iota for the hazards to local populations, livestock, fisheries, wildlife etc. In my mind September the 18th is the only solution. I am not so naïve as to believe we will not be saddled with cleaning up all this shite and that we have a long road in front of us to reach the sustainable and relatively clean society every sane person wants.

      Dumping/releasing/dispersing toxic gases and waste is their approach and I am not shocked by your post. I think a lot of us are getting pissed off that the economic arguments for and against a Yes are eclipsing the solid case for Yes on environmental grounds.

      This is about the next few hundred years. Are BT really trying to tell us that our country, which has been used as dumping ground for radioactive waste for decades, ruled by a Westminster government who lied about their commitment to green policies… are they really trying to tell us we are better off than being run by a parliament close at hand with a Scottish Government firmly committed to renewable technology and ridding us of nuclear weapons?

      It is a big argument, as Tommy Sheridan suggests- it stands alone as reason enough to vote Yes.

    54. rab_the_doubter says:

      Before I start I want to be clear that I mean no disrespect to anyone who does their job in SEPA with due diligence.

      A few years ago I was involved in a study for a proposed development in the Stirling area. As part of my duties I had to meet and discuss the development with SEPA representatives.

      During informal discussions it was made clear to me that there were certain developers to which SEPA staff were advised to turn a blind eye (in this case it was developers with interests in the – lets just say – less responsible end of the scrap dealing industry, which due to Its processes could be responsible for creating a lot of pollution).
      The impression I got of SEPA was of an organisation not prepared to defend and protect its staff.

    55. Faltdubh says:

      R5 a Scots indy special.

      Sarwar on the noo. Already heard in 1 minute. Lesley Riddoch is there too.

      “Pooling and sharing resources”
      A SNP dig after 30 seconds – more digs at the SNP.

    56. Faltdubh says:

      Radio 5 I should say

      P.S “The best of both Worlds”

      You could get fair foo, if you fancied a drinking game of Better Together bingo!

    57. Stuart Black says:

      Aw Ian, I am a keen follower of your posts, and I applauded at the video clip that was posted of you outside a meeting a few months ago, absolutely awesome.

      But.

      “The truth is, many of us have become blasé”? Well fuck that, sorry if this causes offence (not to you Ian, I’m sure you’ve heard worse 😉 ), but we need to STOP being blasé, we need to shout to the heavens, we need to kick up merry fuck about this, we need to be HEARD!

      I’m sure that many of the regulars on here – by no means all – are older, and their concerns are aimed at their children and their children’s children, and beyond.

      I have a daughter who – without any coaching – loves Scotland with a passion, as do I love her. Nobody in this wee country that we share can afford to be blasé. Nobody.

      About anything.

    58. msean says:

      O/T Noticed on tv there that the EU has signed stuff with Ukraine re trade deals. Just wondering how long those negotiations took lately,just proves that if the will is there,even a country economically on its knees with 46 million population can be brought in to the EU.

    59. Croompenstein says:

      @Tam Jardine – It is my first and main reason for voting Yes. All the other arguments are simply to confuse and deflect from this huge environmental rape of our land. I don’t care about currency,EU or border controls the biggest prize is ridding our country of these heinous weapons and I agree that we will be left to clean up what we can.

    60. Faltdubh says:

      Sarwar wants to make Cameron “the next unemployment statistic”
      I doubt that’ll happen Anas, considering he’s got a 12000 plus majority.

    61. call me dave says:

      Radio 4 (I know..) seems the £21,000 student loans scheme down South is predicted to be a disaster. Big problems in recovering money 30 years ahead. Some experts asserting that some state funding essential.

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Faltdubh –

      Good shout there – I’m listening to it right now.

      Doesn’t sound like the host (Nolan) is prepared to take any crap, and Riddoch is kicking Sarwar’s arse.

    63. kininvie says:

      @stuart black

      I’ve long been of the opinion that it is Coulport where the dark secrets are hidden. It was completed in 1968 – what were the safety procedures like then, and what are the chances of some nasty little accident having occured deep underground, leaving sealed tunnels and irremedial contamination?

      I suspect the MoD are terrified of a Yes vote for a few more fundamental reasons than having to find a new home for the subs.

    64. Stuart Black says:

      @ Cameron B: ” I just can’t see how it is possible to trust HMG assurances.”

      Quite. 😉

    65. Adrian B says:

      @ Stuart Black,

      Rob Edwards keeps tabs on all these stories in the press – he actually writes a lot of stuff too. You will find many good articles on his web site.

      http://www.robedwards.com

    66. Stuart Black says:

      @kininvie: Indeed, I agree with your thoughts entirely.

      There has been no openness whatsoever – national security being the trump card – around these dark places and, while safety practices have been improved, sometimes to the point of insanity in the offshore oil & gas industry ;), the secrecy surrounding these sinister and abhorrent sites has been protected to the detriment of the peoples in the surrounding areas.

      I have no doubt, no doubt whatsoever, that some of the practices of the Westminster hegemony, once exposed to the antiseptic of sunlight, will engender anger and absolute outrage once known.

      Hell mend them (as my granny used to say!)

    67. Bevrijdingsdag says:

      Sarwar’s “Red dot silly Paper” in action.

      Sad ,so so, Sad.

    68. call me dave says:

      Riddoch doing fine and Sawar continues to have his cake and eat it by interrupting.

      Norway between 40 and 50% tax but wages 2.5 X UK wage.

    69. CameronB says:

      rab_the_doubter
      I think Britain is the only place in the developed world, where unlined landfill of “non-controlled” waste is allowed. Get this. Pollution control is achieved through the dilution and dispersal of leachates.

      Might be why there has been a rash of rare diabetes(?) in former mining regions?

      Not immediately relevant to Scotland but this guidance from AccountingWEB is packed with useful info.

      TIP 49 – Waste Disposal & Landfill Sites

      Warning
      These notes are not intended to provide an exhaustive or definitive picture. Any tactical tips must be treated with a ‘health warning’ as the BIU cannot test or validate theories or ideas submitted to it, but merely supplies information to be used with common sense and discretion.

      This area of guidance had been withheld because disclosure would prejudice the assessment or collection of taxes/duties or assist tax/duty avoidance or evasion……

      http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/sites/default/files/siftmedia-accountingweb/old_downloads/hmrc/Waste%20Disposal%20and%20Land%20Fill%20Sites.pdf

    70. Stuart Black says:

      @ Adrian B, I will surely check his site out, many thanks.

    71. steven Seagull says:

      @JLT

      Correcto. I would love tae see the workies pull out Yes placards etc, as the media spivs get the cameras rolling.

      They’ll cut the footage, but you cannae hide fae the camera phones.

      Take the mick online. maybe they’ll quit daein it, and gie folks peace.

      Paz oot.

    72. Fiona says:

      “Pooling and sharing resources” is like “hard working families” and many other phrases our politicians trot out. They all mean “Polly wants a cracker”. I suggest that every time they are used that should be inserted instead: it is a handy way of identifying dog whistles

    73. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart Black –

      No offence taken.

      I could reprint your comment, almost word-for-word, to express why I’m in the SSP. People being ‘blase’ about hidden, whitewashed dangers (no matter how toxic) may not be a pleasant fact, but it’s a fact nonetheless. ‘Out-of-sight, out-of-mind’, all that stuff…

      But why are so many blasé about in-your-face poverty?Demonising the sick and unemployed has become a ‘normal’ part of MSM discourse in twenty-first century Scotland, and you can find (on any street, anytime) decent, honest people who will parrot headlines from the Daily Mail, really believing that they are expressing their own opinions.

      Why aren’t ordinary Scots screaming and shouting from rooftops about 25% of our own weans living in poverty?

      Sorry Stuart – perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word ‘blase’. Perhaps it’s got more to do with ignorance, indifference, or sheer exhaustion, but our voices have NEVER mattered. That’s the uncomfortable truth.

      A local friend, a woman in her late seventies, remembers going to Ardrosssan South Beach one day with her older sisters. She was very young, only five or six. She remembers seeing hundreds of round dark objects on the beach, all spread out as far as they could see. It turns out that these were the caps of seamen aboard the HMS Dasher, which had sunk after exploding between the mainland and Arran. In order not to damage wartime ‘national morale’, the loss of the Dasher was covered-up, and has only become public knowledge in recent years due to the efforts of a local writer.

      My elderly friend remembers her parents being visited by anonymous ‘officials’ who warned against ever mentioning what the girls had seen – the parents duly warned the girls. Many other local families have reported similar visits. For six decades, the powers-that-be allowed generations to live along the Ayrshire and Arran coastline, unaware that a massive war grave, containing the remains of hundreds of fellow Scots, was lying there.

      If they can cover up something like that? They can, have, and will, cover-up anything else.

      Bestest to you mister, as ever.

    74. steven Seagull says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Hey Ian, the munitions were dumped in Beaufort’s Dyke. in the North Channel, between Scotland and the north east of Ireland.

      Paz oot.

    75. Stuart Black says:

      No offence taken, my friend, I agree with every word you say, and I am of the notion to support your SSP principles and commitment. I am far from a natural SNP supporter, although they will get my vote for the foreseeable future.

      I was a member of the Labour party when it still believed in something, as was my wife, but in both our cases, to paraphrase Jimmy Reid*, the party left us at the wayside.

      * Anas Sarwar, Jim Murphy, Johann Lamont, Margaret Curran, and all the rest of the sell-outs: there are none of them fit to lick Jimmy Reid’s boots.

      Thanks, mister!

    76. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @steven Seagull –

      So, those phosphorous flares I mentioned – is that where they’ve come from?

    77. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Re. munitions. There is anecdotal evidence that the munition dumping ships didnt go all the way to the designated dumping grounds. They dropped loads early and headed back to save costs/ speed up turnaround. Not just explosive munitions either, chemical and bio weapons

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart Black –

      High-five friend – you can’t make April 4th, right?

      When will you be ‘home’ – if the Counting House gig is a good one, we’ll be duty-bound to do another, so there’s no harm pencilling-in some weeks, and I daresay you’re as good a man as any to suggest them.

    79. Stuart Black says:

      Horrific story Ian, about Ardrossan, I must look into it, but, is anyone surprised? Is this shite not absolutely par for the course when it comes to the Empire builders? Say nothing, nothing at all…

      It is just sad that the majority of the population have become so “de-politicised” since the Thatcher years, panem et circenses indeed. Orwell has been found to be far more prophetic than previously thought. Beer and fucking bingo, oh dear. 😉

      One great, great thing that has come out of this long (and masterful, it has to be said) referendum debate: the average man and woman in the street has started back on the road of political thinking; there is a realisation for the first time in four decades that we, we the people, hold the power, and thank Christ that realisation is dawning. Folks are going to meetings, and participating: it’s many years now since my wife and I went to the likes of Partick Burgh Hall to listen to Bruce Kent but, if these days are returning, and I hope and think they are; it is a step forward to the kind of Scotland, politically educated and aware, that we used – in my memory – to have.

      Now we need the young to follow suit. Keep up your good work, mister.

    80. Stuart Black says:

      Ah, the Counting House, I come back from Stavanger on the 28th of this month, unfortunately we will be in Amsterdam for the following week. Really quite pissed off, I keep on missing meetings and rallies I want to be part of, but needs must.

      Whatever happens – and it looks like my next job will be a short term thing in the Netherlands – I will be breaking free and taking time off in the run up to the referendum, to do a bit work and be a part of this historic time. Because it will be historic: the win is inevitable! 😉

    81. goldenayr says:

      I see you’re talking about munitions dumps.You do know the MoD done away with the vessels tasked with disarming them to a privatised company owned by MPs,SERCO and QINETIQ?
      Do you also have the figures of the amount of fires in the reactors of Vanguard class subs?
      When I left the Faslane area in the early 2000’s,the number was five.Not bad for a system that wasn’t even ten years old…not.

    82. call me dave says:

      Latest independence news Italy.

      http://archive.is/gV4Zr

    83. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stuart Black –

      Bummer you won’t make it, but there will be many other events for you to choose from, no doubt.

      Totally agree with your comments on the general level of political awareness – I’ve never been much of a political-party animal, and have only ever really been involved with SSP, but people I trust/respect (who’ve been activists all of their adult lives) have been telling me they’ve never seen this level of interest in politics generally.

      It’s an Awakening.

    84. goldenayr says:

      call me dave says:
      Latest independence news Italy

      Will be interesting to see whether the media report it loudly or a with a whisper.

    85. steven Seagull says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I have personal knowledge of these events. However, type in “munitions dumping in the Beaufort Trench, North Channel”.

      Confirms your suspicion, and enough info to keep you going tae xmas.

    86. steven Seagull says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      With all the radioactive waste dumped there. and the contaminated effluvia from Sellafield.

      A highly unusual clutch of rare cancers occurred along the east coast of Ireland claiming many victims inc children/young people.

      And my 27 year old young Irish wife. Symptoms Chernobylesque effectively.

    87. Rod Robertson says:

      For some reason Rev you think this guy is funny.
      Like one of those Oxbridge or Cambridge so called funny men ,if you don’t get the joke then you are an inadequate type of person.
      Personally I think he is as funny as week in Poland with Hitler.
      I cannot even get a small snigger.
      What is it about this guy that will move my country one inch closer to Independence?

    88. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @steven Seagull –

      Noted your comments.

      Haven’t done the search you suggested. Yet.

      Feel a bit nauseous, gutted, not sure how-else.

      Kudos to Stuart Black for banging-on about this, and you, for the latest…

      Maybe, maybe, I’ll get angry tomorrow…but even then, I still won’t know what to do about it.

      Hope your missus is okay mister.

    89. steven Seagull says:

      My young wife died from leukaemia believed related to the subject matter. Not the only one, nor the last.

    90. john king says:

      @Steve McKay
      Oh still my beating heart
      the phrase
      “Bannockburn, the garden of Eden of modern Scotland’s Genesis myth. ”

      still making me laugh, our self appointed Scotsman not really getting the whole independence thing is he?
      but continue your studies grasshopper and in, oh I don’t know,
      about 50 years you may gain enlightenment but
      just keep standing on one foot on that fence post until then.

    91. john king says:

      Stewart Black says
      ““The truth is, many of us have become blasé”? Well fuck that, sorry if this causes offence (not to you Ian, I’m sure you’ve heard worse 😉 ), but we need to STOP being blasé, we need to shout to the heavens, we need to kick up merry fuck about this, we need to be HEARD!”

      Hear hear
      now people will think I’ll proceed with a some levity, but no,
      the point Stewart made transcends jokes and banter,
      he gave voice to a deep frustration we all here feel,
      for my own part I usually make a joke or link to some light hearted video ,but its my way of handling my sorrow and disgust at the deep malaise my poor country is suffering from,

      We at least here in Wings and other such sites have been awakened from the Hans Christian Anderson like spell this country has been held under for centuries,
      and as we go about looking at the poor souls still to awake from the spell we find it easy to ridicule them which when you think about it is like poking an injured animal with a stick, both cruel and pointless.

      This is not to say we have all the answers ,surely some of the answers will come from the likes of the Labour/Torys/Libdems but until they can also come out from under the all enveloping maw of Westminster they must wait for their Damascene moment,
      we are privileged to have been in the vanguard of the enlightened, which does not in its own right make us better than others.

      I read recently about the perception of Rev Stu being some sort of Svengali who has managed to swindle his simpleton sycophant followers out of their money, like he was some sort of Jim Jones (pass the coolaid) but in fact without making light of his immense contribution he does nothing more than impart information for which newspapers such as the Daily Mail expect payment for,
      it is then alleged he is a propaganda tool of the yes campaign, much like all of the msm is of the No campaign.
      But he provides (in my veiw) not so much counter propaganda as an antidote to the poison drip fed to us all by the BBC et al but also the unvarnished truth can never be countered,
      In the first world war we said the Germans were bayoneting babies in Belgium (false) in the second world war the Germans said we were bombing innocent civilians in places like Dresden (true)you cannot argue with the truth,

      Look at yourselves for a minute and ask, in a moment of weakness have I myself not been swayed by a powerful argument (even just a little bit) made by the no campaign and infinitesimally and for a nano second found a tiny scintilla of doubt creep in?

      When you hear the argument better together (at least the red tory part of it makes) about pooling and sharing?
      only in the bright light of a new dawn retreats back to its
      correct proportions and squeezes itself under the door on its way out of your conciousness, kinda like the monster in a child s open wardrobe door in the night, and the child cowers and shivers in fear, too afraid to get up an shut the door, only to find it was just a fur lined collar or something
      In saying that I don’t I lose faith in the rightness of our cause but in our ability to force our way through the gauntlet of naysayers while we try to avoid looking into their eyes and seeing the raw unbridled hatred therein (Jim Murphy ) for our part (well mine at least) there is no hatred, no animosity, no desire for revenge, which to me is self defeating and makes us no better than the beast we are trying to defeat.

    92. Muscleguy says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      Re your swim. Much more likely to have been some temporary skin burrowing parasite, jellyfish you didn’t see or most probably a high foecal coliform count (NOT a Blue Flag beach) from an untreated discharge pipe of the sort we used to be all blasé about before good old Europe forced us to pay attention.

      Surfers report similar symptoms from sewage contaminated seawater.

      I’m as appalled as anyone by the nuclear stuff and as a Biologist who has used radionuclides and understands something of the action of decay products on biological tissues I am not sanguine about Cobalt 60. Cobalt is the active ingredient in vitamin B12 aka Cobalbumin. It’s in there in much the same way iron is in haemoglobin. So Cobalt 60 has a good chance of making it into the food chain.

    93. cearc says:

      Ian,

      Here’s your phosphorus, as reported in the Herald ’96. (Weird link from the archive, I wonder whether it is munitions dumping or buck passing that is a premier league Doric sport).

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/beaufort-s-dyke-row-flares-up-after-inquiry-confirms-herald-revelation-of-munitions-dumped-short-a-wave-of-buck-passing-1.471963

      When it came to laying an electricity cable, disturbing Beaufort’s Dyke was raised (30 mins. only) in a seemingly disinterested (‘Nobody was more amazed than I was when this motion came up for debate, as it is a long time since I lodged it.’), Holyrood by Alex Fergusson, feb 2000.

      http://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2000-02-24.214.0

      Worth a browse, interesting comment from Cathy Jamieson re Foulkes, ‘who has waged a considerable campaign on the issue, secured an admission that there had been a number of sub-sea explosions over time…’

      Obviously before he was bought by the Brit Establishment – or maybe why.

      PS. Promise we won’t tell your chums that you read a tory speech.

    94. Caroline Corfield says:

      With regard to the munition dumping between the west coast and Ireland I’m pretty sure one of the early Scottish Sunday papers did an article which included interviews with guys on the ships who admitted they didn’t go all the way to where they were supposed to – the dyke, but dumped it where it would eventually wash back onshore. I’ll go off and see what I can find.

    95. Isa says:

      “SquareHaggis says:

      We are suffering the consequences right now.
      It takes between 5 & 30 years for this stuff to cause cancers, by that time it’ll be too late.”

      Too true SquareHagggis, it really is already happening. I live in Glasgow and in just my group of close friends and family I can name six people who have been struck down with cancer in the last decade. One with leukaemia, two with testicular cancer, one with thyroid cancer, another with esophageal cancer & and finally one with soft tissue sarcoma.

      Every single one of them was under the age of 30 at time of diagnosis.

      My parents on the other hand didn’t have a single friend diagnosed with cancer until they were in their mid 50’s.

      Thanks to the amazing work of our NHS I am glad to say that every one of them has pulled through but no one can tell me that there isn’t something very wrong going on. The doctors themselves have admitted that some of these cancers shouldn’t be happening in people so young.

      A vote for yes is the only way to guarantee the removal of these toxic weapons and the dangers they represent.

    96. Caroline Corfield says:

      here is a SG report, I remember now the thing came to light when they laid the pipeline. This report has a map showing the distribution of the munitions. Seems like near enough was good enough.

      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Uploads/Documents/AE08Beauforts.FH10.pdf

    97. SquareHaggis says:

      @Isa,

      So, so sad.
      Hearing these stories every day from all quarters.

      We also have the chemical trails being sprayed day and night.
      I’m sure the SG are well aware of this as I heard Alex Salmond saying something the other day about us making our own jet fuel in Scotland, hopefully minus the nasties.

      We have to vote YES – our very survival is at stake.

    98. Morag says:

      I think what people don’t understand is disease surveillance, and that it goes on all the time and that it’s not really possible to bury something really significant.

      I work in animal disease surveillance, it’s my job. The statistics are collected automatically every time we finalise a report with a diagnosis on it. There are guidelines about what criteria have to be met to record a diagnosis of a particular disease, and we’re tested on it periodically. If we see something unusual we pass the word among ourselves too, so we can pick each others’ brains and keep a look out.

      The guys in the epidemiology departments collate the statistics and they’re published regularly and anyone can commission a customised search of the database if they want. But even without the statistics we know when something is up. The last real biggie was young calves dying because of an adverse effect of a vaccine their mothers had been given. We’re discreet to a point, but we’re not gagable and we’re not bribable. The vaccine was withdrawn, voluntarily.

      They do the same in human medicine. Data collection is from the grunts on the coal face up, and it’s not subvertible. And contrary to common opinion, the NHS wants to keep people alive. They’re not going to be sitting on a pile of data that says Ardrossan beach effectively glows in the dark.

      What you felt cannot possibly have been radiation. Radiation exposure at levels you can feel will kill you pretty quickly and if anywhere in Scotland was as hot as that the radiation protection people would be down on it like a ton of bricks.

      I’m not saying everything in the garden is rosy, it’s not and we have some evidence of that, but nobody is getting irradiated to the level of a reactor core by going in for a swim.

    99. Morag says:

      Oh God no not someone who thinks jet contrails are chemical spray. I think I need to go and read a good book or something.

    100. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @steven Seagull –

      Only just caught up with this thread after last night, saw your last comment.

      Sorry man.

    101. SquareHaggis says:

      @Morag

      I was talking about chemtrails NOT contrails.
      Maybe you should go away and read a book.



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