A little advance warning
An alert and concerned reader living in the USA sent us a survey this week. It claimed to be from a charity called The Friends Of Scotland, which first rang a bell with us in relation to a very popular article we ran about six weeks ago, and which referred to a committee in the US Senate called the Friends Of Scotland Caucus.
However, it turned out to be nothing to do with them. The Friends Of Scotland charity was actually the organisation which brought us Jack McConnell in a pinstripe kilt a few years back, and – some might say deservingly, if for that reason alone – it went bust last October. Its website is now vacant, and the most recent archived version of it that actually had any content dates back to September 2012.
We’ve as yet found no reference anywhere to the organisation being revived, so we’ll have to treat their credentials as suspect, but that’s not particularly relevant to us. Of more interest is that the questionnaire says the results of the poll will be forwarded to the Scottish media, and we thought you might want a little heads-up on its nature, just in case any of them decide to run with it.
We think it’s fair to say some of the questions may be very slightly biased.
“The Friends of Scotland is a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation based in New York City that was originally co-founded in 2001 by Sir Sean Connery. The non-profit is totally non-political and it is dedicated to advancing contemporary Scottish interests and meeting contemporary Scottish needs in the USA.
We are now conducting a poll of native-born Scots currently residing in the United States regarding the upcoming Independence Referendum in Scotland on September 18, 2014.
This poll is totally anonymous and this questionnaire is being sent to approximately 300 native-born Scots, both male and female, members of all political parties, all above 21 years of age and living all across the United States. As well, these Scots represent the complete spectrum of professions.
As native-born Scots living outside of Scotland have been left out of the referendum debate and election, we thought it important to give a voice to the Scottish ex-pats residing in the United States regarding the future of Scotland.
In an effort to be respectful of your time, we have kept the number of questions to only 16, and most of them require a simple YES or NO response. In light of the time sensitive nature of this exercise, we ask that you return the questionnaire by Friday July 18th if possible.
1. If you had a vote, would you vote in September for Scotland to become an independent country? (please check one)YES
NO2. If Scotland votes to remain part of the United Kingdom, should the Scottish Government push for increased powers for the Scottish Parliament?
YES
NO3. Do you believe that there is commercial value in remaining part of the United Kingdom?
YES
NO4. Are you proud to be Scottish?
YES
NO5. Are you proud to be British?
YES
NO6. It is estimated by the General Registry Office for Scotland that there are more than 800,000 native-born Scots residing in the United Kingdom outside of Scotland that are being denied the right to vote in the Referendum.
Do you think that native-born Scots residing outside of Scotland (i.e. England, the USA, Canada, etc.) should be allowed to participate in the referendum and have a vote on the future of Scotland?
YES
NO7. Do you think that the Scottish Government has presented fairly the costs of ending the Union?
YES
NO8. Do you think that the Scottish Government has any real idea of the financial and economic costs of ending the Union?
YES
NO9. In a post-independence Scotland, would you prefer to have a British passport or a new Scottish passport?
A: British passport
B: Scottish passport10. In a post Yes vote Scotland – assuming a separation of all Scottish/English interests worldwide and the importance of international trade to the Scottish economy, do you think that sufficient thought has been given to the fact that there will be no Embassies and Consulates worldwide to guarantee, protect and promote Scottish interests?
YES
NO11. The Scottish Government has repeatedly said a post-independent Scotland would automatically retain its European Union membership.
European Union officials and European legal experts have repeatedly disagreed with the Scottish Government’s statements and have instead indicated that an independent Scotland would have to re-apply to become a member with no guarantees of conditions or final membership.
Do you believe that the Scottish Government’s assessment of its eligibility to become a new member state of the European Union post-independence is accurate?
YES
NO12. Do you believe that Scotland and its people are safer as a part of the British Armed Forces (ie Her Majesty’s Armed Forces) and also part of NATO, or part of some kind of independent Scottish Defence Force with no guarantee of NATO membership?
A: Greater safety and protection as part of British Armed Forces & NATO
B: Greater safety and protection as an independent Scotland
13. The Banker magazine is one of the world’s premier banking and finance resources, it is read in over 180 countries, is non-political and is the key source of data and analysis for the industry.
The magazine has just published its examination of the potential split of banking assets under Scottish independence and it has stated that Scotland would have been “devastated” and forced to turn to the IMF for help if it had been independent during the recent financial crisis.
It also found that a YES vote in the September referendum could see an independent Scotland’s economy in danger of being destabilized by its own banking sector.
The Scottish Government’s response to this report was: “These figures are outdated and do not reflect the reality of Scotland’s financial sector. Independence would create the opportunity for Scotland to pursue a more productive, resilient and fairer economic model that delivered long-term sustainability and economic opportunity for all”.
Are you more persuaded by the analysis and concerns of The Banker magazine or assured by the statements of the Scottish Government?
A: The Banker magazine
B: Scottish Government14. The Scottish Government has repeatedly stated that it intends to remain part of the sterling currency union in a post-independent Scotland.
George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, has also repeatedly and consistently said that a currency union with an independent Scotland would not work and has been ruled out. He has said that “the only way that Scotland could keep the pound is if the UK stayed together, no ifs, no buts”.
The response to this statement by the First Minister Alex Salmond, and the Scottish Finance Minister, John Swinney is to state that the Chancellor’s statements are nothing more than “bluff and bluster”. Keeping the sterling zone stable would require Scotland to cede precisely the kind of political, economic and financial autonomy that its pro-independence leaders say that they want to reclaim from London.
With less than 90 days to go before the Independence referendum, and no secured or confirmed plan for a post-independence currency, are you comfortable with the assurances of the Scottish Government that all will be sorted out after the election?
YES
NO15. The United Kingdom has enjoyed what has historically been termed a “Special Relationship” with the United States. This is a phrase that has been used to describe the exceptionally close political, diplomatic, cultural, economic, financial, military and historical relations between the United Kingdom and the United States.
The level of cooperation between these two countries can only be described as “unparalleled” among major powers and they share a “common bond of sacrifice” in numerous military conflicts including World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Cold War, the Gulf War and the engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 21st century.
Do you think Scottish independence might have a negative impact upon Scotland’s status within this “Special Relationship” and do you think it might diminish Scotland’s traditional favored relationship with the United States?
YES
NO16. Lastly, it is obvious to all that this independence referendum process has been a terribly divisive initiative inside of Scotland.
Very prominent and patriotic Scots have been accused of being less than patriotic for supporting the Better Together campaign. Indeed many more individuals have also been personally attacked within the social media worlds for their views on the future of Scotland.
A: Do you believe that a post-referendum Scotland (regardless of the outcome) will be able to again come together and heal these significant rifts?
YES
NOB: Should Scotland vote to remain within the Union, do you believe that the current Scottish Government has the ability and credibility to bring the country together again as they were responsible for the creation of the divisiveness?
YES
NOThank you very much for your taking the time to participate in this questionnaire on these incredibly important issues. As stated above, no names will be listed as part of the published results of the questionnaire, there will be total anonymity.
If the comments are particularly insightful and helpful, we reserve the right print some of them in the final report, again with total anonymity.
The final results of this poll will be sent to all the Scottish press. Should you wish to send this questionnaire to other native-born Scots living here in the United States, please feel free to do so, but provide us with their names as every response must be identified in order to avoid any unfair influences to the exercise.
In light of the time sensitive nature of this questionnaire, please return it by Friday July 18th. Anything received after this date cannot be guaranteed for inclusion.
Respectfully,
Robert Forsythe
Research Assistant
The Friends of Scotland”
“Totally non-political”, eh? We’ll let you be the judges of that, readers. We’re expecting a front-page splash in the Express at the very least.
.
As stated above, no names will be listed as part of the published results of the questionnaire, there will be total anonymity.
Not if the new Emergency Data Law get passed…
I gave up here Robert Forsythe
12. Do you believe that Scotland and its people are safer as a part of the British Armed Forces (ie Her Majesty’s Armed Forces) and also part of NATO, or part of some kind of independent Scottish Defence Force with no guarantee of NATO membership?
It’s like the big dope’s never met us:D
Any question in a questionnaire that requires more lines to be asked than the number of choices given to answer should not be answered and should not have been asked.
B: Should Scotland vote to remain within the Union, do you believe that the current Scottish Government has the ability and credibility to bring the country together again as they were responsible for the creation of the divisiveness?
Or as it’s known around the planet, democracy! Where on earth does oor Robert get this stuff? link to bbc.co.uk
Oh, this is going to be splashed on the front page, and then continued on pages 2, 4, 5, 7 and 8. It’s total troll-bait.
In line with the Sean Connery reference..
If he puts one of yours in the Hospital, You put one of his in a Focus Group!
FFS that is all.
Good one Stu – Forewarned is forearmed – a pre-emptive strike at the MSM won’t go wrong.
Pointless bankers exercise ah’ll bet.Rather big set up for the banking bit.Trust bankers? er,no thanks.
The questionnaire gets progressively worse as the mind of the Questioner comes to the fore.
“dedicated to advancing contemporary Scottish interests and meeting contemporary Scottish needs in the USA.”
So, it’s pro Independence then? Aye, right.
Surprised at using Sir Sean’s name, though.
Wow. That must be the worst-worded questionnaire I have ever seen. Some of the questions can’t even be answered as they are so obviously based on false premises. I gave up reading after 13 as the preambles just got too long.
Well, it began very well – seemed a bit innocuous at first but from Q 11 onwards the pro union hand was definitely shining brightly.
“The non-profit is totally non-political and it is dedicated to advancing contemporary Scottish interests and meeting contemporary Scottish needs in the USA.”
Really!?
Looking forward to finding out who’s really behind it.
Wonder if Shir Shaun is aware of this
Robert also forgot Jk Rowling, the poor wee billonaire soul/ touchstone for all no campers desperate to show how terrible it all is that Scotland might want to run Scotland. The Rowling attacks with no evidence of who they are from was raised at least half a dozen times last night on vote NO BBC and in at least 2 different shows. Funny that.
16. Lastly, it is obvious to all that this independence referendum process has been a terribly divisive initiative inside of my own head.
Very prominent and patriotic Scots have been accused of being less than patriotic for supporting the Better Together campaign. Indeed many more individuals have also been personally attacked within the social media worlds for their views on the future of Scotland.
So who are they’ and why no mention of people like big donors such as lotto winners rhe Weirs getting monstered by the Daily Mail etc Roberto?
The author of the questions couldn’t help themselves could they?
It started with reasonable questions but then the author’s anger quickly emerged as his/her frustration oozed out of the following questions.
You can feel their disgust with not being allowed to vote & the possible diminished future status of the their beloved Great British State.
Fuck them.
It says a lot about the impartiality of a questionnaire when you have to read a novel before answering. Absolutely hilarious.
Non political!!!!!!
Leading questions abound and a heavy bias- just what the MSM need to sling more smoke and mirrors but using the same old and de-bunked myths as fact. Good to get this out in the open and screwed before the MSM claim it.
Nice to have the crystal ball there Rev
I think this fits in perfectly to the topic but some might think its OT
Think its something we’re all aware of though
link to youtube.com
Wow.
I was looking at the first few questions thinking ‘ok, that’s not quite a simple question and it’s pointing to the answer they want but it’s… reasonably clear.’
Then I got a tiny wee bit further down. All pretence of unbiased questions evaporated. The EU one is an absolute corker. ‘All these people say the SNP is wrong so do you believe the SNP position of EU membership?’
Oh aye, that’s unbiased. Like I’m Superman’s tougher brother.
An utterly absurd poll. Obviously going to be used in media shortly. Good move to warn of of these goings on, Stu, as it will help take the sting out of it that they clearly planned and hoped for!
Speaking of nefarious deeds – watch out on twitter, etc. as false accounts are being made in order to pretend to be “cybernats”. This is either to worm into private circles for some juicy out of context quotes or more likely to have them then burst in with nutty or offensive comments. This is no mere suspicion as accounts have been spotted (I’ve seen them in action) with very obvious automation working them while pretending to be ordinary people and when confronted vanish into smoke forever, new accounts with other identities and stolen ID images start elsewhere. You’ve been warned, folks.
Perhaps Sir Sean has mean lawyers with big teeth!
It really does spiral down as the questions go on. No doubt intended to lead you in and soak you in the negativity bit by bit.
Its just missing the last question:
How much would you like to donate to Better Together?
Friends of Scotland…it actually sounds like some covert CIA operation
The Friends of Scotland? I think not. What is the opposite of friends?
Scotland has a higher GDP per capita. Scotland will therefore be better off as an independent country. We can use our wealth to create a fairer country. Only today it has been revealed that pensioners in an independent Scotland will be £260 per year better off. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. How much are free prescriptions worth? The only way to keep free prescriptions is to vote yes because all the London parties want to severely cut our budget.
8. Do you think that the Scottish Government has any real idea of the financial and economic costs of ending the Union?
That has just floored me laughing – couldn’t be any more perjorative, unless they inserted the word ‘fucking’ before ‘Scottish Government’.
300 people eh, representative of the population of all Scots born inhabitants of the USA so good for gender, age, US +/ UK citizenship and location presumably except there is no data for these so your guess as to whether their sample 300 is representative is as good as Obama’s.
Its also worth noting that 300 gives a confidence interval of 7.5 so if they claim 50% for something it realy means 42.5% to 57.5%. No I’m not a budding Curtice, there’s a useful site
link to surveysystem.com
One of the continuing delights of the campaign is watching
Prof Curtice making an arse of himself. He has suggested that most of audience at YES meetings across the country are NO supporters and that the Better Together have more people on the ground
I don’t know what is worse, the clown that sent this out or the clown that is going to print the “results”.
It starts innocuosly enough but rapidly descends ever deeper into full BT rant mode…
This bit had me amused:
12. Do you believe that Scotland and its people are safer as a part of the British Armed Forces (ie Her Majesty’s Armed Forces)…
Didn’t know all Scots were part of HM Armed Forces. That’s you telt, you’re ALL cannon fodder!
Do you think that with friends like these asking such utterly biased questions that they are in some way connected to
BETTER TOGETHER
THE HATEMAIL
NO BORDERS
THE BUSH TELEGRAPH
THE EXPRESS
THE RETARD
NONE OF THE ABOVE ?
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Didnt the group which setup Vote No Borders also fail to research the name properly…
International Astroturfing ?
In a questionaire with many horrendous and offensive questions, this one angers me the most.
The people of Scotland voted the SNP in. The referendum was in the SNP’s manifesto. The people of Scotland consistently say in polls and elsewhere that they want this referendum to take place.
This has not been forced upon the Scottish people, this is something the Scottish people clearly have wanted for decades, if not centuries. I cannot express how angry this question makes me feel, implying that everyone was all happy and cheerful in the Union until the Big Bad SNP came along and FORCED this horrible division on us.
It’s bad enough to claim the independence movement is something that only came about in the last few years or decades. It’s bad enough to blame the SNP for all this. But to claim that the very idea of a referendum on who should run their country is causing “terrible divisiveness” within the people is as insulting to the intelligence as it is hypocritical and patronising – especially when they bemoan how the poor expats Scots are “denied their right to vote” in this “divisive” referendum.
Also, “denied the right to vote”? Are American expats “denied the right to vote” in US elections? Really starting to hate that line of thinking.
Is it any less sophisticated than VoteNoBorders in all their manifestations !?
Two possibilities. Either some Unionist troll in an attic somewhere, or an expensive PR company based in the south east of England. Each would display similar levels of competence, so hard to tell.
Done to generate tabloid fodder.
Put together by a Unionist amateur, for numpties.
Are we sure that this is not an official Yougov poll?
Sorry Rev – missed your link in the article.
On how many levels is this thing outrageously wrong not to mention irrelevant. Walt til the results get distorted and twisted, it’ll be a bigger work of fiction than JKR herself could write. It definitely has BT?NoThanks written all over it. I wonder whose relative Robert Forsythe is.
I have a hell of a lot of american relatives and when they are not complaining about opinion polls phoning them they are answering the questions being put to them Most Americans
are not stupid (honestly) and can spot biased polls a mile off. I think that the obvious bias in the questions will have the people being polled asking “who are you doing this on behalf of?” and then “they will say with friends like you who needs enemies ” and hang up.
Nutters and quite obviously so!
Could pre-empt by sending a WoS Press Release to UK & US Media ?
If you included the return address for the Survey perhaps the Sunday Herald might dig into who the backers are…
Even their figure head photomontage is trying to discredit Scottish democracy with a weird shot of Holyrood, if it is actually Holyrood. They may aswell have had blood running down the walls and tumble weed rolling by. But there’s me giving the nutter ideas.
In an effort to be respectful of your time, we have kept the number of questions to only 16,
lol
It’s almost like whoever wrote this started off sober and got progressively more p*ssed as the questions went on!
Today’s comedy slot, I take it?
The biggest joke is that some naive unsuspecting souls are going to believe this is genuine because it shites Shir Shean.
And I take exception that there’s not a solitary mention of “evil cybernats”.
Wow.
[Here is a paragraph of unmitigated, unquestioned Better Together propaganda]
[Here is another paragraph of unmitigated, unquestioned Better Together propaganda which puts words into the mouth of their opponents refuting the obvious truth of said previous propaganda]
Do you agree with the Better Together propaganda version?
Do you agree with us and Better Together that the Scottish government should be abolished after a no vote?
” they were responsible for the creation of the divisiveness?
In a questionaire with many horrendous and offensive questions, this one angers me the most.”
Agreed. That one’s the worst.
Though 8 is insulting, 13 is hilarious (Banker magizine, really?) 14 is flat-out lying (We have a confirmed currency plan, it’s called “we’re using stirling, you can either play nice with us or not, but you can’t stop us”) and 16 is unanswerable.
Unbelievable fodder for the Recycle bin.
I honestly laughed all the way through it. It is SO bad , no-one anywhere will take it seriously.
(Shakes heid and sighs)
WE TRUST OUR SCOTTISH GOVT MORE THAN WESTMINSTER. FACT.
It’s getting silly now.
And this one:
Do you believe that the Scottish Government’s assessment of its eligibility to become a new member state of the European Union post-independence is accurate?
I thought the eligibility criteria for EU membership were along the lines that a country is a) situated in Europe and b) complies with the EU treaties and rules and laws.
Scotland is clearly situated in Europe (unless a YES vote results in a cataclysmic tectonic event and the island of Scotland drifts west into the Atlantic…) and Scotland clearly complies with all EU legislation, having been a member for 40 years.
I fully expect there to be negotiations, starting with the number of MEPs (around a dozen compared to the 6 Scotland currently has) to membership fees. Who knows, Scottish farmers might get a better deal on their CAP payments! (They’re the worst in Europe now due to the UK sacrificing CAP payments for the UK rebate, and then keeping most of the paltry CAP payments for the more profitable English farms.)
The preamble to the questions directs the participants to vote in a certain way, so certainly not a neutral poll.
“In light of the time sensitive nature of this exercise, we ask that you return the questionnaire by Friday July 18th if possible”.
What’s with the “if possible”? Is Friday the 18th a deadline, or is it not? Can’t they even get an ultimatum right?
Greetings from a Certified Public Accountant’s office in North Carolina, where we know a thing or two about checking to see if an organization is approved by the Internal Revenue Service as a 510(c)(3) organization (in broad terms, one with a charitable purpose).
The IRS website has a handy tool available at link to irs.gov. Although it would be helpful to have more information (where have I heard that phrase before?), I can find no trace of Friends of Scotland in the database, even after widening the search to the whole of the USA, Canada, Mexico and Israel.
I did find a Friends of Scotland Enterprises just up the road in Laurinburg, NC but they had their status revoked for failure to file annual returns with the IRS for three consecutive years. This is a fate that befell many well-meaning, generally smaller, charities.
A 501(c)(3) organization cannot take sides in any political debate. If this organization actually existed, I think the IRS would be mildly interested in what they are putting out.
How do you format so that (c) comes out with a c in the middle instead of the copyright symbol?
Is this a late April Fool?
Or may be they were too busy “..advancing contemporary Scottish interests..” that they lost track of time and released it late..
I’ve reached the stage where I believe anybody authoring and disseminating black propaganda should receive a hefty fine or a jail sentence.
The crap above is ripe for m’Lord’s attention.
Hold on, it says in the intro
“This poll is totally anonymous” and then at the end
“Should you wish to send this questionnaire to other native-born Scots living here in the United States, please feel free to do so, but provide us with their names”
a tad dodgy surely?
On much the same vote no con as the above, here’s vote No or else you morons no. 27 of the day from link to archive.today
There really is no oil left Libby Carrell of the Guardian says and he never lies, ever. Interesting there is no oil frightener report from Severin here but he’s even lying about how its a Guardian report when its actually Glasgow uni monstering Scotland’s economy, which will shock everyone very much.
“A Guardian investigation into Scotland’s wealth cast doubt on Alex Salmond’s claim that Scotland is one of the richest countries in the developed world, when it found that major industries are dominated by foreign and London-based firms”
With friends like these etc. etc.
OK, after looking at the old website and using the California address, I see they are on the list of approved charities and have not had their status revoked. My apologies. My point about political involvement remains valid.
That’s not a questionnaire, that’s the conversation of a drunk talking to himself at 3am , standing in a deserted taxi rank waiting for a cab. The last paragraph should have included a shake of a fist and shouting ‘ya basturts’ at a bin lorry.
Oh, and that Banker magazine question…
Methinks this is some ex-pat Scottish banker sending this “authorative” poll to his 300 ex-pat Wall Street Scots pals
link to glasgow.stv.tv
Another day in teamGB or whoops Armageddon, yes or no, for Scotland ofcourse, as its unlikely Westminster would allow lorries loaded with Trident nuclear bombs travelling at 70mph through anywhere important.
But none of these people have a vote, so the point is…?
Vote No for the sake of those expats in america who live work and presumably pay tax in another country, by choice.
That’s me convinced, No it is then..
I had a pal in Boston trying to tell me the facts. that we were subsidused by the rest of the UK and the usual old drivel. there is def an attempt to get other countries to try puting us off saying yes. But the USA ? didnt they just celebrate the 4th July.
oops scuse typing
I know Robert on-line. He’s a nice enough guy but he really doesn’t understand what’s driving indyref. He has a bit of a 1950s worldview of Scotland’s place in the big happy family that is in mortal peril of being broken up in his personal opinion.
He genuinely doesn’t realise how broken and dusfunctional the union is in spite of his commendable championing of North East England causes.
Hang on a minute. How can 300 people represent the complete spectrum of professions? And as to party membership, do they mean Republican, Democratic, Libertarian, Green, etc? I am pretty sure I cannot be a member of the SNP, because I do not have a vote on the other side of the pond any more.
@david smith.
That does not wash with me at all, he seems VERY sure of what he is doing, his failure is that he has made it obvious he hates the SNP more than he cares about the issues he is trying to project.
As hilarious as this poll is, it reveals a worrying state of ignorance or unwillingness to think – or willful bias. Take question 10.
do you think that sufficient thought has been given to the fact that there will be no Embassies and Consulates worldwide to guarantee, protect and promote Scottish interests?
Now, is the poll author suggesting rUK will withdraw all embassy and consulate support immediately after a YES vote? 18 months, two years before formal independence?
The embassies and consulates which already charge Scottish bodies to promote Scottish trade…
As to Scots individuals who might encounter problems abroad, as per EU rules, they are entitled to help from ANY EU embassy/consulate. Scotland will remain a member of the EU until formal independence day, and most probably become the newest member state on independence.
Also, it’s disingenious to suggest that the Scottish Government wouldn’t be busy setting up their own network of embassies and consulates during the negotiation period. As a small/medium-sized country Scotland could share premises and overheads with friendly small European countries if rUK has a hissy fit. The Nordic countries share embassies/consulates in various corners of the world.
I don’t suspect any manipulation will take place with this date.
sarcasm
Utter pish, no-one could take that seriously, just bin it.
Sorry, O/T
In today’s Daily Mail we find this:
Vile ‘cybernat’ attack on MP
A NOTORIOUS [sic] ‘cybernat’ has caused more offence with a vile attack on Labour MP Margaret Curren.
The blogger ‘Rev’ Stuart Campbell, who posts as Wings Over Scotland, wrote on Twitter: ‘Margaret will stop lying when you pry the tongue out of her cold dead mouth, to coin a phrase.’
The comments were in connection to Shadow Scottish Secretary Mrs Curran’s drive to convince pensioners to back the Union.
After seeing the Tweet, she wrote on the social networking site: ‘Another example of the level to which some have sunk in this debate.’
Last month, pro-independence chiefs were forced to distance themselves from Wings Over Scotland after the website branded a Tory MSP as ‘fat, troughing scum’.
“Vile ‘cybernat’ attack” Laugh Out effin Loud!
And all the letters capitalised in “NOTORIOUS”… Here’re seven more for you, Daily Mail, ROFLMAO!
“…has caused more offence” Really? Nope. Only in the Better Together? No Thanks, U KOK! nothing-positive-to-say smear-factory.
“… pro-independence chiefs were forced to distance themselves from Wings Over Scotland …” Were ‘they’ now, really? “forced”, eh?
Well here’re another four capital letters just for you, Daily Mail, GIRFUY! And this ‘vile cybernat’ is called Dal Riata – at least try and get that right when you make up your next piece of BetterTogetherNoThanksUKOK propaganda in your faux-‘news’paper.
David Smith says:
I know Robert on-line.
He genuinely doesn’t realise how broken and dusfunctional the union is in spite of his commendable championing of North East England causes.
Is he this Robert Forsythe ? : link to robertatforsythe.blogspot.co.uk
Is this the person responsible for the survey –
link to facebook.com
This Robert Forsythe ( link to robertatforsythe.blogspot.co.uk ) seems to be a fan of this Tory MP who is a bit agitated about us all staying Better Together:
link to guyopperman.blogspot.co.uk
As to the moaning how “native-born” Scots who live outwith Scotland and pay their taxes in their chosen country of residence (and might have a vote there)…
BT have been promoting this line in rUK and abroad. It’s ethnic nationalism.
The proof that the YES movement is concerned with civic nationalism is in the fact that the referendum franchise is people who live and work in Scotland, and only them, regardless of where they were born. As a EU citizen, if I moved to Scotland tomorrow and registered on the electoral roll, I’d have a vote. (I was tempted to move to Scotland last year but now family stuff keeps me in Finland… And I’m not sure I’d want to live in Scotland if it was a NO vote
I asked my Slovene girlfriend Prof Jezereena Tomkins, to fill out this totally neutral but very very game changerising poll and he said he’d already done it, marked some resits, fired off some brilliant nae genius articles for the Scotsman and monstered FM Alex Salmond again this afternoon or as he’s known in Slovenia, the cruel evil dictator ruining the finest country in the whole wide world, because Jezereena really really loves the yew kay.
link to id.theguardian.com
Conclusion:
THERE IS NO OIL BOOM !!!
The SNP are shameless liars and Slovene votes naw too.
So there
The questions start of innocent enough but become more sinister, as they progress, also the fact that the authenticity of the participants can’t be verified, really does affect the validity of the overall poll.
If it turns out to be a bit of a Machiavellian poll,and negative to the yes camp, then expect the Scottish media to be all over it.
17: Do you believe the USA should reject its independence and return to the warm wonderful embrace of the British empire?
See also this excellent article The Carrington Dean Scottish Teen Money Survey Scam, concerning skewed survey results involving the ‘Independence’ question.
Yes to win by 63% of votes cast.
Labour rejects outcome as, “unacceptable face of democracy.”
Tory party in disarray, “A calamitous day for United Kingdom.”
Lib-Dems say, “What they said.”
Maybe Robert gets his copies of The Banker magazine second hand from Guy-of-Hexham :-
link to thisismoney.co.uk
Probably easier than buying them off the top shelf.
@ Bob W Joined Facebook less than 3 weeks ago. Interesting.
“there will be no Embassies and Consulates worldwide”
So, we’l have even less recognition abroad than impoverished, war-torn Afghanistan had under the public-stoning/hanging/head-chopping-loving fanatical Taliban regime, even they managed 3 embassies.
“frankieboy says:
11 July, 2014 at 3:29 pm
That’s not a questionnaire, that’s the conversation of a drunk talking to himself at 3am , standing in a deserted taxi rank waiting for a cab. The last paragraph should have included a shake of a fist and shouting ‘ya basturts’ at a bin lorry.”
You win the internetz!
Although actually, I’m not sure about the bin lorry, and suggest that our drunk ranter is just as likely to be shouting at an invisible non-existent monster.
Wait, I get it: there IS a perfectly good bin lorry performing a very useful public service, but our demented paranoid ranting drunk perceives it as a scary monster, based on no evidence whatsoever.
Ye gods, that must be a wonderful example of of ‘how not to do an opinion poll’. It is really quite something.
It occurs to me that if our demented angry drunk actually engaged in civil discourse with the bin-lorry men, they might be able to tell him “this isn’t a taxi rank, pal. You’re in the wrong street” and he would have learned a useful fact. However, as our (anti) hero is not starting off with a rational and open mind, there’s little hope for him. Until he sobers up and starts to think and look at things realistically again.
@Dan Huil
No, Question 18. There are already 17 questions in the survey even though they tell you 16, they just can’t help themselves lying, even on something as non contentious as that.
No wonder people are confused; nobody expects to be deliberately lied to and that is what NBTT does daily.
/Pedant alert/
The Spanish Inquisition was abolished in 1834
/end Pedant alert/
What’s the problem, all of the questions are neutral in tone and none could be described as ‘leading’. The Poll size of 300 makes it truly representative and will surely provide valuable information which will be used by our unbiased media and government to conclusively prove some point or other.
Well, on a positive note it only mentioned Alex Salmond once.
So at least we know Jo Lamont didn’t write the questions.
Bit O/T, apologies.
I read the latest Alexander piece on scottishlabour.org (the red Tory Alexander, as apposed to the yellow Tory Alexander). See Rev’s twitter link.
He talks about his dad watching the bombing of Clydebank.
According to Alexander – “…the idea that Scotland would walk away from the rest of the UK in a few weeks is something that diminishes his sense of Scottishness and his sense of self rather than enhances it.”
My dad saw the Clydebank blitz as a boy in Scotstoun and he became an SNP supporter in the 1960s because he realised that the UK, Westminster system, was failing ordinary people, not because he believed that it would enhance or preserve his sense of Scottishness. He would be Scottish regardless of any outcome in a future referendum.
In 1960s Glasgow, it was evident, to those who opened their eyes, that Labour was not the answer. Even then it was moving towards corruption and a self serving ethos. Of course that may have been the attraction for Alexander with his career-centric vision of the world.
Alexander actually gives the game away when he talks in glowing terms about London (the love of his life), forgetting that London is not the problem.
He, Alexander is the problem. Economic ruin is caused by decisions made by men and woman like Alexander. Social injustices happen because people like Alexander make wrong choices in policy.
Wars happen because Alexander and his fellow careerist journeymen and woman couldn’t care less about people and fire the gun that starts the race to war.
Read his piece and despair of a politician who has lost his way and actually couldn’t care less;
link to scottishlabour.org.uk
‘Terribly divisive’? ‘Obvious to all’? Really? The collapse of the former Yugoslavia was ‘terribly divisive’. In contrast, we have people occasionally saying rude things about each other on social media. Scotland is a mature democracy and, as such, we’re doing pretty well with this constitutional debate – despite these examples of ridiculous exaggeration – and that’s another reason why we’ll do just fine as an independent country.
Nice picture of the Old Man of Storr there, though.
@ Skip_NC
Thanks for digging into the background. I wonder if Sean Connery is aware of this and whether he should publicly affirm or deny involvement?
I’d be surprised if many people in the US would bother to answer this poll. It looks like a spoof to me. If they’re really concerned about the vote, they can move back to Scotland and register.
It kind of starts off fair enough, but you get a hint of what’s to follow when it asks about people “being denied the right to vote in the Referendum”. Then the mask slips completely when it asks “Do you think that the Scottish Government has any real idea of the financial and economic costs of ending the Union?”
Seems tailor-made for one of the right-wing gutter rags like the Mail, Express or Scotsman.
Mind you 300 is a bloody good movie so there could be 300 UKOK Spartans ready to defend the yewkay. Alistair Carmichael I hope you had your breakfast because tonight you dine in hell. TGIF
it wouldn’t do any papers’ reputations any good (hahahaha) were they not to check out the background of this organisation fully, especially as it is suggested here that they are promoting a political poll as a charity against the rules of their status, I’d also be very tempted to clear that Sean Connery is ok with this before I even began to think of publishing the results.
Nonetheless I await the front page splashes with interest.
David Smith, are you sure the Northumberland-based, good-causes Robert you know is the same as the fellow behind this? Could be someone completely different.
It could be like Alien v Predator. 300 v Braveheart, as they are both as historically accurate, so we could have Mel Gibson v Gerard Lambert, although Gerard has a few years on Mel who does drink too much and is a scary racist, but it is a poll from the USA, with that world famous American can do attitude and spirit of freedom etc, or rather cant do attitude when it comes to Scotland and our new Friends of Scottish non democracy, which is also quite creepy.
Coming on a bit strong there Bob!
We’ve only just met…
@handclapping:
I see direct mail campaigns in America ‘boast’ a 4.4% response rate, so maybe Robert can expect about 13 responses.
link to dmnews.com
Gamechanger!
This is. Spoof ,right , obviously not a serious poll or is supposes that everyone who left Scotland to make a home in the United States is in some way mentally deficient
@biggpolmont (3.08pm) & David Smith (3.14pm)
Thanks for your insights on Americans/ex-pats.
I’ve been thinking along similar lines after our American family friends of more than 30 yrs standing visited us a couple of weeks ago.
They’re from Washington State (just south of Canada on the west coast), more specifically western Washington, near Seattle – so they didn’t mind the coldest and rainiest Finnish June in living memory because their climate is pretty rainy and temperate as well (rather similar to Scotland’s, in fact.)
They bemoaned the fact that Washington is actually like two states, the west wet, vibrant, liberal, Democrat-voting, and the east… Well, the opposite.
The matter of Scottish indepence came up briefly because I happened to be wearing a pro-indy teeshirt. It was my Finnish brother, who lives in Madrid and Brussels, who bluntly stated that Spain wouldn’t let Scotland into the EU.
I pointed out the Spanish fishing industry is dependent on access to Scottish waters and Rajoy’s “Catalonian problem”. I said I was for Scottish independence mainly because of the democratic argument. Mindful of our American friends I didn’t slate the FPTP system (which they also use) too much but pointed out the unelected HoL and the whole corruption and patronage and “establishment” system and how rotten the UK system is.
Our American friends are pretty fed up with American politics, the duopoly and hysterical media etc. They have no opinion on Scotland – they’re of Finnish heritage – and we moved on to less controversial subjects and had a lovely time together for several days.
The grandfather’s both parents were Finns who’d emigrated to the US as children or young adults in the early 20th century and he spoke Finnish at home until he went to school and English took over. He still has a smatering of Finnish. The son (my generation) knows some words and phrases, and the teenagers were very eager to learn, they were very excited about their Finnish heritage and seeing the country for the first time.
The older generation has visited Finland several times since the early 1980s but they have a “fossilised” view of “the old country”, Finland. The nostalgic Finland of the grandfather’s parents’ of grandparents’ childhood.
Fair enough, I’m old enough to have a nostalgic view of the Finland of my childhood (summers were longer and warmer, winters were snowier, you know the drill) but I live in 21st century modern Finland which is very different from the Finland of mere 30 years ago, never mind the Finalnd of the 1910s and 1920s, and I think you have to keep looking forward.
Looking forward doesn’t mean ditching all your traditions but maybe taking them with you to the modern era.
There’s a traditional (western) Finnish Easter dish, mämmi, which bears a resemblace to a fresh cow pat. It’s basically boiled and baked (malted) rye porridge. When Finland joined the EU in 1995, our then Minister of Education made a speech in Finnish, which started, “Me emme emmi mämmiämme…”
I felt sorry for the poor EU interpreters… Literally “We have no doubts about our mämmi…”, the meaning being that we’re unapologetic about our national quirks.
Anyway, this mämmi stuff got a boost maybe five years ago when an immigrant (middle-estern if I remember correctly) published the mämmi cookbook, showing us how this wonderful substance could be used in all kinds of cookery, especially quite fancy desserts. So immigrants have definitely enriched our existing culture!
Sorry for long post. (Nobody probably read all of it, so no need to apologise!
)
Scotland…listen to Dr Philippa Whitford.
Vote Yes to save the Scottish NHS
This poll is totally anonymous and this questionnaire is being sent to approximately 300 native-born Scots, both male and female, members of all political parties, all above 21 years of age and living all across the United States. As well, these Scots represent the complete spectrum of professions.
This alone tells you that they are neither professional pollsters or worth giving a second glance.
Ignore. But lets send our own poll to 1000 people in the US, each question suitable prefaced of course with the rationale for YES.
@lumilumi
I always read all of your posts. They are always enlightening.
O/t’ish!
We know that the polling companies use people who have ‘signed up’ to do political polls whenever required, so this will tend not to include the politically disenfranchised.
This means that if a significant number of people have registered to vote, as a result of Yes campaigners going into areas, whose people do not usually engaged with political campaigns, then these polls will not be truly reflecting the ‘voters’
So does anyone know the numbers that have registered from these areas? I’m sure when these campaigners first went in to these areas, they reported on-line that the response was good, but what are the numbers and is it significant enough as a percentage of the voting public to make the polls almost obsolete?
I got to question 8 and started sniggering, by the time I forced myself to read question 11 I was laughing and by the end I was rolling off the couch.
If they issue this joke sheet to 300 people I doubt they will get 100 back.
Any Scottish MSM outlet publishing results will be a laughing stock (Oh! Of course they already are?)
This load of old bollocks has the distinct whiff of that other load of old bollocks that appeared after the Megrahi affair. It was called Boycott Scotland.
My opinion is that McMillan ex CBI and co were behind it as he wrote a quite sickening in article for the Washington Post almost begging the USA to boycott us. It is couched in the same nasty pernicious language McMillan used in his appearance here on TV untill he was undone by lying about the response of his Scottish members to independence.
There are many idle hands in the Scottish Office who have nothing other to do than create mischief and spend all day on the forums abusing and lying. They and the CBI are indeed the enemy within.
A load of tripe from people who are very far out of their depth and know virtually nothing of the subject they have decided to stick their noses into.
I suppose they are entitled to express their views. I’m pleased, though, they are mainly not entitled to vote as the referendum has nothing whatsoever to do with those who are NOT the people of Scotland.
No matter if their Grannie’s Tom cat, 16 times removed, was born in a Butt & Ben whose doorstep was washed by the waters on the shores of Bonnie Dark Loch Nagar.
Sheeeeesh!
@desimond says: 11 July, 2014 at 2:40 pm
“Friends of Scotland…it actually sounds like some covert CIA operation”.
Well, desimond, it certainly is ignorant and stupid enough to be a CIA operation.
(Hi to you, our Scottish Loving USAsian Special Friends frae ower the Lochan).
We should all try and register or put our names forward so that we can be included in this.
All that was missing from the last question was IN THE NAME OF JEEEEEESUS!!!
oh dear now this is so pathetic its funny ,they must have the numpty machine working overtime this week lmao
@ Patrick Roden, 6.17pm
That’s the niggle I have with polls.
They’re polling internetty-connected people on the one hand and, on the other hand, some of the pollsters poll by landline phone (do people still have them in Scotland? Nobody in Finland does, apart from the 70+ demographic) or face-to-face (which encourages “coy” responses).
So it’d be damn hard for any pollster to get a representative sample from the start, and further skewing may happen during the weighting process (based on recalled UK GE or Holyrood vote).
So I take all polls with a pinch or a bucket of salt. Scottish Skier in comments here and Scot goes Pop on his blog do excellent work in explaining polling and the methodology. The sainted pshephologist Prof. Curtice’s website isn’t too bad either because it usually sticks with the facts (unlike the sainted prof’s media appearances).
I’ve been “on the internet” for twenty years and it comes as a shock to meet ordinary (maybe low-income) people who only access the internet in the public libraries or job centres, or not at all, even here in our happy-clappy hi-tech information-society Finland.
Everybody at Wings is of course at least half-way internet savvy but there are a lot of surprisingly “young” people who aren’t. I’m not talking about teens, twenties people who are “digital native” and probably far more savvy than I am, but people in their 40s and 50s. People who were young when the internet took off but never got on it. They’re now bewildered by their “digital native” kids.
Of course there are lots of older people, 70+ and older, using the internet. Some have done it for years, decades even, and some are newer to the online world but now enthusiastic about it (forward-looking people).
The pollsters don’t capture offline people, or people with no landline phone, people who’ve maybe never voted.
This isn’t a Westminter GE or a Holyrood GE. It’s a referendum, and all kinds of voters the pollsters haven’t reached and accounted for might turn up on the day.
Methinks Mr Forsythe is an autistic train spotter, and therefore a lone operator. I think he just wants some friends, Aw!
We do not have a special relationship with the U.S. We just do as we are told. The U.S. and Israel have the special relationship.
lumilumi
Majority of people here where I live still have landlines, its the only way you can get broadband, which even then is dog slow. In rural area’s most people need a landline for decent Internet. Only 1 person I now has Satellite internet.
I hardly get a mobile phone signal never mind 3g, and there are parts of the Island that are in a mobile free zone and that includes one of the largest villages.
BTW I had the pleasure of meeting some of your country men/woman the other month, a 12 strong group of Finnish people were using our Island to get from the borders to Oban, and they had an overnight stay in my local hotel/pub where I bumped into them.
They had not heard of you though!!!
My word that poll would have Prof Curtice reaching for his metaphorical blunderbuss.
The first two or three are fine, and given that the crunch question is asked first I would be interested to see how answers drifted given how the increasingly leading and wordiness of the remaining questions became.
I’m surprised the last one wasn’t
Do you think sufficient thought has been given to the number of kittens Jesus will have to kill for every evil secessionist vote cast.
The most sinister thing is how did they know the names and addresses of 300 native born Scots in the US? Did either the US State Dept or the British Embassy release these details? If not and these people made themselves known in some way then how the fuck is that in any way representative? They are self selecting.
Note this applies to YouGov and Panelbase polling as well, even if they only poll random subsets of their members. But then in the modern age however you choose to contact people unless you use mobile, fixed line, internet AND personal interviews (ie all of them) you will miss some subset of the population. Something the esteemed Prof Curtice is only too well aware of as he has mentioned the issues in his blog. So then Prof on what basis should we take any poll result as indicative of anything very much?
Dave Beveridge. I think you may actually be right.
“It’s almost like whoever wrote this started off sober and got progressively more p*ssed as the questions went on!”
Or more desperate !
But, what does it all mean. Overt, or covert funding for the enemy ?
If so, who gives a flying feck. We lost the MSM war before a $£$ was spent/promised/stuffed in a brown paper bag.
Stu (why else start this site?), and many of us here, knew how bad it would be.
The grassroots have achieved the same as what spending £m’s would have done, and created something wonderful almost by default. A re-politicised people, coming together from all parts, to help counter the overwhelming MSM pro UKOK bias.
Liquid Lenny @ 8.01pm
I stand corrected. One should never judge situations in other countries by one’s own experiences in one’s own country.
Living in Finland, where 2G/3G mobile phone cover is pretty universal (even in the Lappish wildernesses) and at least 1M adsl (phone line) internet covers 99% of the population, I forget that things aren’t as good in other sparsely populated western, industrialised countries, like Scotland.
It’s a matter of political will to bring mobile phone coverage and broadband to rural, even remote communities. The UK with its purely commercial privatised services clearly has no interest. It’s privatised also in Finland but I think there’s a clause to provide service to remote areas. Or maybe the companies just want to do it, to brag that they have the most extensive coverage.
Broadband is more expensive in rural areas, phoneline adsl or mobile broadband 1M-5M costing someting like €30 per month (I get 100M for that price, not phone line but cable, where I live in a small town 50 km north of Helsinki.)
Some more mobile digatally savvy young person would be able to explain better. ;-D
@Calgacus et al. That Robert is the one I know. Aye, I may have got a 5 from two 2s.
I’m almost certain a Dr Geoffrey Scott Carroll is behind this poll. Full time Scottish douchebag (as they say here). He asked Salmond a question about denying Scottish born people a vote when he was over opening the Glasgow Caledonia Uni site. Only it took him 5m to ask the question because he had to mention that he was a venture capitalist and had his “hands tied dealing with Obaaaamaa and De Blaaasio”. For the record I work in a bank on Wall Street and know who others who do and they are firmly Yes.
….oh and I think Connery was involved in starting ‘Dressed to Kilt’ which is where the link comes from.
Wow
So unbiased
Much briefness
As a pacifist, genial sort of guy, the sheer revulsion I feel towards Douglas Alexander actually frightens me.
Here he is, talking about the bombing of Clydebank, and how Scotland could “walk away” after suffering that. Well, do you know what was even worse than the bombing itself? How about the fact that the entire town was practically built on Asbestos despite the government being fully aware of the growing medical evidence of asbestosis? How about the fact Clydebank was practically abandoned after the Blitz by Atlee’s government? How about the fact that Clydebank has continued to suffer indignity upon indignity under every UK government since then?
I highly recommend this astounding blog post which details the tragedy of Clydebank:
link to broganrogantrevinoandhogan.wordpress.com
Oh no, Mr Alexander, if Scotland votes yes, they will NOT be “walking away” from the legacy of fighting in World War II – the UK has already left them for dead in a ruin of poison and misery.
…and further to my point, here a cease and desist letter to the aforementioned douchebag to stop using Connerys name.
link to prbuzz.com
see
link to corporationwiki.com
It’s SO amateurish and SO obviously biased that it could only be HMG! This could surface post YES as a desperate bid to have the result overturned.
As I read this I couldn’t help thinking and hoping that those actually doing the survey will “go all Rev” while filling it out. In other words, rather than being coerced into giving answers which will undoubtedly be used against us, simply explaining with reasoned arguments and facts exactly why each question is offensive, leading and total horse shit.
‘Friends of Scotland’ is a misnomer.
‘Friends of the UK’, is more appropriate.
16B was a cracker, my definite favourite. What a bunch of #¤%()/%”#¤%&s.
The brilliant thing about this leak is that it is a clear statement of the Better Together’s campaign strategy
1)
2) Hint at possiblity of future powers
3)Suggest UK offers financial benefits
4) create division and promote pride in Britain
5)If we get yes vote use international pressure to urge a revote that incl
6)pretend that Scotland don’t own a percentage of all UK embassies and that Scots won’t have the protection of embassies as British citizens
7)Threat of Europe ejection
8)Threat of global terror
9)Present nationalism (rather than internationalism) as zenophobic
10) Cause division between friends and family by suggesting that the independence campaign, rather than warnings about separation is the cause of the division rather than the posturign of the No campaign and so halt open and honest debate and dialogue which is a healthy part of democratic decision making
It could also be a trojan horse and actually a political ‘pamphlet’designed to go viral
Is my history wrong, because I was taught that there was a revolution by American settlers to get independence from the British and a lot of blood was spilt. Oh perhaps I was dreaming.