A gap in our memory
Posted on
May 01, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We must confess, we don’t recall when this happened.
If anyone can help us out, please do.
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Snoresville.
Labour in Scotland produce lots of words.
Shame that they can’t get them to make sense!
Must have missed that in all the excitement of squirrel watching.
An English teacher would be tut-tutting at the way the sentence “I don’t like the politics of the constitution” is shoe-horned into the same paragraph following a sentence about a different matter.
And who is “I” anyway?
Who knows? She may have done, but as she’s had more positions than a yoga instructor would anyone have taken any notice.
Trying to shore up her anti independence stand and a futile attempt to prevent further desertion to SNP.
Kez will be gone shortly after next week, if you look at the furrows on her brow and demenour, not a moment too soon.
I fell sorry for Kezia, I wish her well after next Thursday.
Vote SNP! One and two!
They say all the right words, just on the wrong order.
Say anything do nothing. That’ good old SLAB ROTTON to the core, admired and promoted by the yoon press, EBC on behalf of the Londinium Establishment
Well, there is one statement in there which is correct.
They CAN’T do right for doing wrong……….lots of wrongs.
SNPx2
Reaching out? Putting it behind us? She has made a commitment to oppose a future referendum in her MANIFESTO! It’s a front and centre commitment. Hardly “putting it behind us”!
“I believe Labour helped to save Scotland from financial meltdown. Voters thanked us by deserting us. Now more are abandoning us for trying to move on from the divisive politics of the constitution. Ever feel like you can’t do right for doing wrong.”
And it is because of this sort of condescending pish that Labour are on their knees, yet they do not see it.
Kezia will resist a referendum even though the majority want one. Thats not reaching out, thats painting yourself in to a corner.
Kezia probably didnt paint the floor herself. Her corrupt party did that but Kezia is the one trying to sell that attitude.
Bye bye Kez, bye bye SLab, Elvis has left the building.
Labour just doing wrong full stop – now as much part of the establishment as tories – infiltrated every organisation and sold us out for power and ermine – result illegal wars, MSM/BBC in their pocket (champagne socialists), PPP and crumbling schools. For 19 days when FRB was closed BBC had team of reporters and JB wittering on and on about snp baaad, 7,000+ children been in danger for 10 years with walls that could fall down at any moment and it took 11 days before the word Labour appeared on BBC and it is still very quiet on the subjects. Labour and kids not cuts but Ok for their education to be cut by 2 hours per day being bussed through busy streets in rush hour traffic – labour nothing. Jack McC on BBC gloating about smoking ban – disappeared when schools falling down due to his PPP which he did not need to use because he sent millions back to WM during same period. LABOUR have SOLD OUT the people of Scotland again and again.
Kez was at one time the “straight man” in a sub-Morecambe and Wise double act (more Carnforth and Stupid) with Spud Murphy. In fact they were bad enough to be a 21st century Mike and Bernie Winters. (Come to think about it – maybe if Kezie adopted a St Bernard she’d become a bit more popular), but, I digress.
Now she is rehashing one of Eric’s greatest lines: she is using all the right words – but not necessarily in the right order.
By the length of her hair it wasn’t all that recent . Who actually cares what she says anyway , she hasn’t a clue about anything and changes her policies every five seconds .
Just read Neil Olivers piece in The Times, what a cock, another personel attack on AS & NS, but beneath his angry words lies an attack on democracy and Scotland in general.
Angry & bitter comments , should go and get his hair cut, hippy.
Kezia Davidson and Ruth Dugdale are stll singing from the same C of E hymn sheet and are still out of tune with the Scottish electorate.
Reaching out?
If anything what remains is even more bitter than before.
People talk of divisiveness as if it is some sort of alien concept in politics. What Labour activists mean is that they would like to define the paradigm of divisiveness. A return to the simpler barricades of the 1960s. The thing is a lot of Labour politicians no longer believe those battle lines exist anymore.
Confused – it seems to be Labour’s permanent state.
Reach out in what way? By telling them they have no right to self determination. By slagging off the Saltire. By thinking voting SNP is a form of brainwashing. By absolutely being British no matter what 48% of Scotland thinks. By righting us off as narrow minded bigots.By taking Umbridge that Scotland is no longer owned by Labour. Refusing to condemn the hardline Brits who destroyed George Square.
To be fair she did try to reach out to us just the message she was saying we were not interested in,the fact she never figured that out meant she had no chance of convincing us.
And we did tell her what she had to do and if they didnt what we would do.
Where was she when Labour was dismantling the Scottish bill with the help of the tories at westminster,did i see her stand up for the vow promised by her party or be the driving force of scottish politics to make sure that the promises they used to keep us in the union were not just hot air.
Nope none of these things instead i saw a circus act of clowns falling about to please their London masters but hey it was a good show while it lasted i particularly liked the car crash routine and the double shot to each foot is always funny.
tick tock
She makes up policy on the hoof.
This week Dugdale is all ultra-unionist again – trying to stop defections to the blue Tories from their dwindling band of supporters.
The best think that could happen is for Labour to get totally pumped next week – That would give them the excuse to finally put Scotland first.
The fact that the whole tory BBC led media try every trick in the book to get SLabour back in says it all.
Or, why is Labour leader Dugdale a socialist goddess for BBC, Torygraph, Times etc in their Scotland region but in England, Corbyn’s a horrid old socialist monster, say the BBC, Torygraph, Times etc?
Rule Britannia rules her empire in mysterious ways.
When you ask the voters to “Take Another Look at Labour”, it helps if there is something worth actually seeing !!!
On another note, Superb slap down by Nicola of Murnaghan on Sky news about 11.35 am(ish) when he called Scotland a “one party state”.
Well worth a look.
Morgatron: “Just read Neil Olivers piece in The Times”
Reads written by a ten-year old.
A truly terrible piece of work. Fail. Please repeat your first term and start again.
You pine for the days of Time Team and eccentric Phil Harding in a muddy trench shouting, “Jiggers! Oi jist fown-d a sanwish that’s definitely Bronze Age!”
Socrates MacSporran says:
1 May, 2016 at 11:25 am
In fact they were bad enough to be a 21st century Mike and Bernie Winters. (Come to think about it – maybe if Kezie adopted a St Bernard she’d become a bit more popular), but, I digress.
==
I digress, too.
Glasgow Empire decades ago.
Mike comes on and does his bit.
Audience not impressed.
On strolls Bernie ……..
Voice in audience
” Aw sh@te, there’s two o’ them !”
Aye, reached out and tried to strangle the yes voters, shut them up, put them back in their box. That is why her reward is a fight for second place with her bitter together pal Ruthie. Let them scratch each others eyes out. They deserve each other, soulmates, forever locked together in their love of the union.
If they reach out to you, run! Run like the wind.
SNP x 2
Fit ? fa said fit ? and fan did they say it ?
and for those south of the north east,
What ? who said what ? and when did they say it ?
And when did labour save Scotland from financal meltdown ? was it when they melted the whole of the UK economy in the early 2000’s.
Most of these Unionist politicians suffer from a verbal Mobeus, where they never reach a conclusion on anything.
Their hatred of anything SNP is infinite like the Mobeus.That is the vehicle of their ultimate destruction.
What happens if Ruth and Dug come joint third place?
I have this ghastly vision of them both squeezing onto a single chair in Holyrood for PMQ, like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, and taking it in turns to pipe up ad nauseum:
“Will the First Minister rule out a second referendum?? Will the First Minister rule out a second referendum?? Will the First Minister rule out a second referendum??”
… until their collective heads explode!
Let’s think about this, only Anas Sarwar is greedy and stupid enough to believe in being the next ‘Scottish’ labour leader.
He is a disaster yet to happen akin to the Murphy campaign.
No-one with a bit of common sense is going to be caught holding the parcel except him when the music stops and the fat ladies stop singing on the 6th May.
PS:
“The Lib Dems had a good run here, maybe this is just the SNP’s day. If so, God bless ’em. Let’s see what they do with it.”
https://archive.is/PSMAn
0333 20 20 401 – Scotland’s Talk-In – she sneaked 9ut of it 3 weeks ago but the Sitting Tory Bull taking questions now
Mckenna on Sunday politics bang on the money. He thinks 47% is enough to go for indi 2 as only 5% needed to get there. I have always believed that.
Ligger Neil BBC Politics toryboy show says Scotland May 5 could see blue tory Ruth Davidson moving south to London, if she beats red tory Dugdale. Ruth is the most talented new generation sensation of this generation says toryboy. That was actually Ligger’s FT man. Lucky old London. Will Dugdale go back to her old job, is it really future PM Davidson? Britannia is toryboy world so why not.
Morgatron
Cant get hold of the times.
Whats that arse Oliver saying now?
@ Moratron
http://archive.is/pzKgA
A Panelbase poll in the Sunday Times Scotland;
Constituency
SNP 49
LAB 22
CON 17
LIB 6
List
SNP 44
LAB 22
CON 19
GRN 7
LIB 4
UKIP 3
For Constituency SNP up 4 Lab down 10 from 2011. SNP static on the list from last time.
Had to hunt to find the poll details as not headlined as not SNPBad.
Sunday politics Scotland seemed fair today have they gave up.
prof Curtis admitting what stu said here a few days back and also the tax expert siding with the SNP as well
Nicola on the Marr show about 37mins in. I skipped past the Farage balloon, Bretrix and the Palastine question.
Q1: “Oil too low and you don’t need it , is that right”?
https://archive.is/PSMAn
Palestine..Geez! More haste less speed. 🙁
Tories calling in to help Davidson along with devisive Q’s giving her free reign to SNP BAD. HELP!
wanted to ask her what she was going to do about George Ozb shafting the oil industry and told “sorry, off topic!”.
Instead it’s NS, NS, NS, 2ndIndy, 2ndIndy, chinese deals etc SNPBAAAAAD…
That Tax expert talking to Brewster, was very clear about various tax policies, hope some of the clowns were listening.
That buffoon McKenna having a right sly go at SNP. In power since 2007, and not much to show, they must do more and better.
No mention of the dead hand of the Union of course. That’s his sly angle, hoping his criticism gets through, and folk forget the limitations imposed by WM.
He makes me sick.
I just watched Nicola on Marr. It looks like there was a major development here to me. Maybe someone can clarify.
I was under the impression that England voting for Brexit and Scotland voting to remain in the EU would be an automatic trigger for a Scottish referendum. The word trigger has meaning, right, and those who aren’t sure of its meaning should look it up?
Today though Nicola seems to have introduced a new approach. If I understand her properly she is saying the scenario outlined above would lead to a referendum if there was enough definite support… I’m pretty sure she used the word “definitely” although I have no idea why, it seems to give the impression that her policy is as clear or hard as ever when it seems less clear now and softer.
So, I’m asking, will Brexit trigger a referendum up here if we vote to stay in the EU? Or will it only be possible to construe it as a trigger if further to everything else the polls show increased support for another referendum — this wouldn’t be a trigger as I understand the word.
I don’t think Brexit will happen but it looks like one poll put them ahead today so we need to consider the possibilities.
And that’s written in the Times? For who’s benefit I wonder?
I have a crude theory that the UK press has been badly wrong footed by events in Scotland, a bit like Jimmy Carter and his CIA back in the 70’s in Iran, finding they had no assets on the ground to deal with the crisis at their embassy. As events changed very quickly, they lacked sources of credible intelligence close to events on the ground, and could only fall back upon routine satellite intelligence and images from spy planes. Good enough surveillance for peacetime intelligence gathering, but wholly inadequate for managing a crisis. It meant sleepness nights and a white knuckle ride for the CIA while they caught up, and in the meantime, they required a lot of improvised help from their friends.
I don’t know whether we should be glad the UK press lacks “assets” close to the Independence movement here in Scotland, clearly they do, or be concerned that its a situation they are undoubtedly working to correct. Perhaps the “Getting by with help from their friends” stage in the process is currently revealling an obsolete and unhealthy dependency on a network of Labour Party mouthpieces who are asleep at the wheel and who clearly do not feel the pulse of our Nation.
Perhaps it isn’t a coincidence that a Times article earlier in the week was written by someone who’d got off his arse, travelled to Glasgow and physically spoken to YES supporters distributing leaflets. I don’t have the link… sorry. It was good, much better informed than we’ve come to expect, and actually read as sincere.
Might be an interesting development, and not before time, but one swallow doesn’t make a Summer.
Me no historian but what on tory BBC earth is Neil Oliver’s dead dog business today in The Times? I’ve met some lovely old dogs in my time and wish they were not dead but Oliver probably doesn’t mean that either. Toryboy world doesn’t have to make actual sense, as long as its Scottish democracy bad.
Sunday Herald’s extreme dirty tricks front page also a huge hit with tory yoons, further right you go the more they like it.
Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 14h14 hours ago
… at any cost – without any care for who suffers as a result – because it’s the only thing I actually care about
“I believe Labour helped to save Scotland from financial meltdown”
And I believe Labour helped condemn Scotland to several more years of economic underperformance thanks to the straightjacket of the union.
Unlike Kezia, Ruth, Willie, and all the other pursed-lipped Cannae Daes cowering in dread from the future, I have a touchingly sincere belief in Scotland’s potential.
It looks to me as if Ruth Davidson determines what Dugdale’s next U-turn will be.
Labour are terrified of coming in third place behind the Tories – So every time Davidson criticises Labour for Un-Unionist policies, Dugdale changes tack in order to convince people she is in line with the hardcore Unionist way of thinking.
The Yoons have introduced their own form of McCarthyism into Scottish politics. If Labour and the Tories ever get enough votes to form a coalition Scottish government, they’ll set up an Un-British Activities Committee and have all us indy supporters up on charges of Un-British activities. 🙂
Neocon Nat, my take on Nicola back tracking is that if she keeps a hardline we will have enough nutty Yoons voting to leave Europe simply to scupper a referendum.
I would also say that all of the people here have at one time or another explained to the Labour Party in Scotland the reasons for their parlous state. Well they did not read or listen because they do not want to, so hell mind them.
Remember everyone on tThursday coming…
SNP x 2
and EU in, June.
Don’t be too hard on Neil Oliver… maybe he’s just pitching his BBC angle for a job on a new series of Coast; heard a rumour it’s about the UK Union, working title “Toast”.
Well, that was fcking awful.
Not one Aberdonian voice on to ask about ABERDEEN concerns on a programme beamed out to Aberdonians.
What a joke.
Sighs…
Neocon
Read the manifesto, if you are indeed a SNP volunteer, you should understand what you are supporting? I wonder if anyone thinks that statement by Nicola was in any way a new development!
Labour dont like Jews, whe knew?
It’s those Pesky Voters again!
They just don’t know what’s good for them.
The article says that she “deserves credit for trying to reach out” (emphasis mine). It says nothing about whether she succeeded in reaching out, let alone succeeded in having anyone reach back!
Mckenna is slab through and through. His creepy , softly delivered mumblings give me the hebee gebies. His invisability cloak has many holes in it and you can cleary see what hes all about.
Funnily enough , you never see the fat tuba player and him together !
Sure they maybe the same person?
@NeoconNat – This is not a new tact. It’s pretty simple …. the choice of another referendum is in the hands of us, the people. If the majority of Scots decide after Brexit that Indy is the preferred choice, then we’ll demand it.
At no point in the process does NS make any decision on that, we need to show her that a majority of Scotland will vote yes before the gloves are take out of her box!
Your bank holiday reading
A hell of a film: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6M5
A hell of a cheek: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6G9
Interesting poll from Panelbase
I think the continual barrage on the vote has made an impact on the list.
Absolutely no room for complacency….although one can hardly complain at 50% or so in the constituency polls.
Spectacular display of tory BBC r4 “news” completely destroying Corbyn’s Labour party rein right now for Sunday lunch. BBC tory bias not seen since 12pm on BBC tv toryboy Politics Show. R4 creepshow cant even get a Corbyn Labour comment. BBC toryboys are on the march now, so next five days in their Scotland region, vote Kez or else scorched earth pouring out of Pacific Quay.
Breeks says:
1 May, 2016 at 12:53 pm
Don’t be too hard on Neil Oliver… maybe he’s just pitching his BBC angle for a job on a new series of Coast; heard a rumour it’s about the UK Union, working title “Toast”.
Neil Oliver gives the impression of a natural monotone trying very hard not to speak in monotone. He just ain’t a natural presenter/public speaker. Sorry, when Mr Oliver starts to speak, I just switch off.
Ruth Davidson’s English constituency job application, I presume.
http://archive.is/wUaym
Grouse Beater @ 1.08.
Thanks , two marvelous articles.
The bitter battle for London Mayor is most likely explanation for racism smears in the Labour Party right now.
http://tinyurl.com/j68kxtb
But is started in 2014 when the Labour Party backed a motion in the UN to recognise Palestine as a state. Link from Telegraph as there is a video at the end which won’t archive.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html
Okay so a few people responded by suggesting what was said today by Sturgeon on Marr represented nothing new. And someone suggested I look at the manifesto for clarity. Heres what the SNP manifesto says;
“We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”
Look carefully at the word “or” and tell me we are not talking about two distinct scenarios. Today on Marr though, those two scenarios were combined so that there is no trigger as such — accordingly, in the event of Brexit and Scotland voting to remain “in”, a referendum would only happen if there was definitely a desire to have one.
If that’s the case it’s a development, I’d say a huge development. We can possibly put it down to a misunderstanding on my part or a lack of clarity in the heat of debate. Bit of both maybe.
Or something else…
Valerie says:
1 May, 2016 at 12:38 pm
That buffoon McKenna having a right sly go at SNP. In power since 2007, and not much to show, they must do more and better.
Ruby replies
The SNP having nothing to show is a positive if you consider that had Labour been in power they would probably have had plenty to show and all of it negative
ie Iraq War
Trams fiasco
PFI
uncontrolled immigration
Parliament building
Gold sold at rock bottom price
Council fraud
Arsonists at Prestonfield
Drunken Brawlers
etc etc etc
In the near twenty months since the independence referendum no parliamentary member of Labour in Scotland has made any public attempt to ‘reach out’or ‘offer an olive branch’ that I’m aware of.
Oh and that goes twice for their media.
In point of fact I’d say they’ve redoubled their scaremongering efforts in an attempt to deflect from the abject failure of Westminster to fulfill and referendum pledges or assurances made to the Scottish electorate.
But y’know, anytime they feel like showing some better togetherness.
So it looks like that SNP majority is not as guaranteed as some of the Yoon media would like to have us believe.
We need to make sure we get out on Thursday and and use both votes wisely, complacency and apathy are what the Yoons are banking on.
Remember, if the SNP fail to gain a majority, this would be classed as a victory for the Yoons, as it is their only goal in this election.
I wonder if Kezia is really gay or she thought it would be a good idea to copy Ruth Bull?
Will we see Kezia riding a bull before the election campaign is over?
I shall call this ‘essay’ the Book of the Celts:
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-63x
Pass the word to friends. I’m off for a few hours honest manual labour creating a Roman garden. Oh, my aching back.
I think Neil Oliver is doing an Eddie Izzard. He’s got his eye on a title for services to preserve the union.
I’m assured by friends in the south that he’s hugely popular with ladies of a certain age. They love his faux Glaswegian vernacular.
His article has all the eloquence and insight of an addled ignorant pub bore. What a tit.
Labour are obviously the divisive party. So good at it are they that they has managed to divide their own party support in two.
I guess the SNP must be the inclusive party having brought in 100,000 new members many from Labour no doubt.
Will Slab ever put down the spade? Is Anas the answer? hahaha
Both Kezia & Ruth will campaign for a stay vote in the EU Ref. presumable because they believe this is what is best for Scotland but will oppose an IndyRef in the event of Scotland being ripped out of the EU by a vote taken by the English electorate.
Both these women are bonkers!
I do hope Ruth Bull doesn’t get too carried away with the idea that “Scottish voters view her as more genuine, competent and trustworthy than the Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale”
That’s a bit like telling a poster on Wings that he/she is more popular than The NeoConnnard! 🙂
Sitting in a small hostelry in Glencoe catching up on events,i noticed we still have our resident troll.
I wish he would ride into the sunset.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkg2C_EIea0
Will we see Kezia riding a bull before the election campaign is over?
Ruby she came out just before the election probably because she thought it was now or never in end of era Slabour world.
Or its just one more of SLab’s desperate politicky shyste on Scotland. Why didn’t Kez come out for example during the same sex marriage in Scotland debates?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30486804
Slabour are merely shameless chancers trying on anything via our jaw droppingly corrupt BBC Scotland domination of Scotland.
Also but not only-
Ruth Davidson wasn’t even riding a bull. She was sitting on a cow or a buffalo really, the domestic Italian water buffalo, from which we get mozzarella cheese.
Tony Robinson, “Carenza says it has all the hallmarks of being a fossilized Roman turd.”
Neil Oliver, “Indeed but I actually think it’s probably British. Marvelous!”
Why, it’s like the MSM doesn’t know t’internet exists…
If she reaches out any further she’ll fall over. Oops. she has. The Unionist media and the Labour Party are just talking to each other now. Dugdale hasn’t reached out to anybody in the Yes camp. She despises us. We’ve nicked all her votes.
She really is a silly girl if she genuinely thinks those of us ex-Labour people are coming back. Remember, Kez, Labour left us, not the other way round.
Hell will freeze over etc etc etc.
I’m beginning to suspect the papers are trying to do a ‘Kinnock’ on Nicola.
Kinnock’s triumphalism was a huge turn off for many voters, but it was entirely his own creation.
Nicola, on the other hand, being presented as such, is a hugely dishonest construct which may turn some voters off
They wouldn’t be that sly, would they?
I’ve been very patient with the Sunday Herald but today’s front page has done it for me. Weekly order cancelled.
Alan Reid LibDem (Argyll & Bute) who lost his seat in May 2015 has the cheek to ask us for our vote. He has been an MP for 14 years and I don’t remember him setting the heather on fire on any issues. Just another trougher who saw Westminster as his ticket for life.
My abiding memory of this little creep is of him standing up in the commons to support Trident and abstaining on the vote for Tory austerity.
He had his chance to support his constituents.
The Tories and Labour have no hope here but the risk of tactical voting is real so it has to be SNPx2
Ruth wants to re-introduce prescription charges to help the NHS who are struggling due to PFI payments.
The argument is people who can pay should pay!
This sounds very much like the start of the NHS should be privatised argument.
People in England pay prescription charges but it doesn’t look as if that is helping the English NHS much!!
Hi MacAndroid. Same with me I reckon it’ll be Friday before paint I’m watching is dry.
Auld Rock
“BJ says:
1 May, 2016 at 2:21 pm
Alan Reid LibDem (Argyll & Bute) who lost his seat in May 2015 has the cheek to ask us for our vote. He has been an MP for 14 years ”
I had to smile at his recent election leaflet. He’d doing a Ruth and trying to pretend he does not have a political incumberance. Aka a chancer.
I’ve been very patient with the Sunday Herald but today’s front page has done it for me. Weekly order cancelled.
Me too. Its such a perfectly dirty political trick, it makes you wonder if MI 5 or MI 6 spooks aren’t running the UKOK press show, or at least popping in to assorted newsrooms and giving little tutorials to their Britnat gimps, aka Neil Oliver style you hate referendums don’t you sensible Scots, style of great British bullshit.
So Murdoch’s goon show at the Sun pile in behind Sturgeon, all be it be it mocking Scotland as usual but enough to upset lefties considering Sturgeon.
Then Herald pops up with an appalling display of hubris even for FTP Westminster, let alone D’Hondt Holyrood. All it takes now is Sturgeon or Salmond to trip over into the oncoming tide at Portobello beach in front of UK media and blammo! gotcha! stick it you’re hunta vile seps.
Its a dirty dirty game what UKOK media are playing.
Ruth doesn’t get the irony when she states..” Vote conservative so that we may become the main opposition and hold the SNP to account ”
Whereas Scots at last years election returned an SNP wipe-out to hold Westminster tories to account.
Prescription charges were fast approaching becoming uneconomical to collect. That aside they’re an unbudgeted expense that comes for some who will face a drop in their next wage if they have to take time off work due to illness. It’s a tax on the sick. More so if the doctor’s first prescription doesn’t work and you need something else.
Re; Ken C@2.17
Sounds like the establishment within and beyond these shores are doing a N.kinnoch on N.Sturgeon. The only tactic they have now is to somehow portray N.Sturgeon, as some kind of rabid self seeking leader, quite the opposite to the reality.
On the doors, lots of people saying they really like her and rate her politics very highly.
The state media attempt to make this a one party, one personality crusade, similar to what they did to A.Salmond, just a different page of the same hymn.
SNPx2.
Kez is telling all the Yes voters (approximately half the population) to go fuck themselves. In the Labour playbook, that is a really cute chat-up line. And they wonder why they sit alone, and no-one asks them to dance.
@ ananurhing, Neil Oliver in fishnet tights would just be about right & match the rest of the outfit! He’s a typical example of the arse-licking “Jock in the Box” which has plagued this country since the Union.
heedtracker says:
Ruth Davidson wasn’t even riding a bull. She was sitting on a cow or a buffalo really, the domestic Italian water buffalo, from which we get mozzarella cheese.
Ruby replies
She wasn’t sitting on a buffalo she has lying flat out hanging on for dear life!
You would have thought Kick Boxing Action Krankie ex soldier would have made a better job of riding the buffalo. Kids it better
http://tinyurl.com/hrweoya
http://tinyurl.com/zpnk322
Even dogs do a better job than Fat Bottom Buffalo Girl.
http://tinyurl.com/z2rguq6
Ooops dodgy link in last post try this:
Even dogs do a better job than Fat Bottom Buffalo Girl.
http://tinyurl.com/hwnpq6s
If by ‘reach out to Yes voters’ it means ask them to vote for her, well then yes I suppose she has!
Whoever wrote that article ,my advice to them would be: No one likes a whiner.
Ukippers have been hung out to dry in Scotland? Oh wait! 🙂
https://archive.is/xidLP
Just read Neil Oliver’s outpourings…Ouch! He seems a wee bit troubled by his apocalyptic visions of decay, death, darkness, disrepair, temple falling doon, land of Neverendums and hate-fests.And a dead dog thrown in for good measure.It may be that the persistent critique and scrutiny of the BBC is perceived as a threat to his lucrative career and status.Who knows?
Thing is that none of us are under any illusions about the significant challenges we will face when Scotland becomes independent.We will have a mountain of stuff to try and fix and heal, in the immediate and longer term.To make a start on undoing the harm and damage caused by generations of laying waste to our land and people.
As Nelson Mandela said, we have merely achieved the freedom to be free, the right not to be oppressed.The prospect seems both exhilarating and scary. We know we are up for it, of that I have no doubt whatsoever.
SSP X 2
My sympathy goes out to Jeff Dugdale, father of Calamity Kez. He must wince every time she comes out with her opposition to Scottish independence from Westminster’s corrupt and increasingly authoritarian rule.
Neil Oliver – the pro-Union twin of Muriel Grey and the presenter of “Scottish History For Dummies” programmes. Nuff said!
Interesting that Neil Oliver and Muriel Gray, both with exaggerated, slightly strangulated, Scottish accents, walking gear, striding across the heather, both turn out to be rampant Unionists.
There were quite a few kilted absolute Unionists turning up during the Referendum. Outside one polling station I saw a guy in full highland outfit playing the pipes, with a Union flag tied to the end, and he wasn’t being ironic.
Since the thread now looks mainly to be about the Neil Oliver rant I guess this is now ‘on topic’:
http://blog.independencelive.net/neil-oliver-and-his-unionist-hate-fest/
Well I gave up on the Sunday Herald a while back. I had a chance to read todays edition and editorial thanks to a mate who was foolish enough to buy it. Tom Gordon even writes with a sneer, he is another that cant help himself. The front page was atrocious and the editorial wasn’t much better. Oh and Macwhirter rabbiting on about LABS trouble with anti Semitism FFS.
I wasn’t in a good mood when I left my mates place and was in an even worse mood when I ran into a holiday home owning couple up from darn sowf to vote in the Election for the effin Tories. Something needs to be done about the peckerwoods before the next Referendum.
I always get the feeling that the motive of Scotland’s Neil Oliver types when writing their puerile, insulting comments in the Unionist press is purely to prove their anti SNP/Scottish independence credentials to the Brit Nat establishment whose collective arse the likes of Oliver love to suck.
SundayHerald trying to provide some ammunition for the gang of three in tonight’s leaders debate. Clutching at straws now. I am confident Nicola will kick all their ranting into touch. 4days and counting Tick Tock.
SNPx2
Here is the real reason we all need to vote SNP x2
http://gmtopp.wix.com/altered-images
The Brewer and Scotland bit on about 39mins in Sunday Politics .
I don’t watch the darn Sarf bit.
Prof Curtis (from London) etal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0788rtf/sunday-politics-scotland-01052016
Iain More
I thought with the new registration , all that allowing people living out with the constituency stuff was meant to have been stopped?
I witnessed a conversation about someone ‘up to vote before flying back’ following the Referendum but I thought things had been sorted ?
I’m sick to death of reading these ersatz Scots knocking their country of birth and presumably their homeland. Oliver does not have much going for him intellectually so he grows his hair long to look interesting. Sorry chum! You are not! As for Labour in Scotland – who isn’t sick of them betraying their country for the chance to crawl up the arse of some London luvvy for the chance of a seat in the house of corruption and it’s useless second chamber – the house of Lards! We must get out of this foul union which brainwashes it’s people to become like Oliver, and others, who lack the brain power to think for themselves!
It has to be SNP x 2
re Tonight’s forthcoming BBC stage managed so called debate hosted by a third rate Media hack in the form of Sarah Smith who is nothing more than a SLAB mouthpiece. I wont bother watching.
I might also be a coincidence that Sarah Smith would have been a contemporary of Sturgeon at Glasgow Uni for a while. One of them went onto achieve great things and one well didn’t. No prizes for guessing which one is an outstanding success in their chosen careers. Meow!
Neil Oliver – ‘The Apologist’s Progress’.
Backwards methinks ?
What a sorry state of a man who hates his homeland, if its in a form that doesn’t suit the Britannic Mindset. Nelson lover and all that !
Complete Dud !!! Like a damp squib firework.
– give me Prof Tom Devine anyday.
@Marcia
Thanks for the poll. From that I make it down to 65 seats on the constituency vote, just losing Orkney as well as Shetland, and probably losing Edinburgh Pentland. 4 seats on the list, for a total of 69 same as last time “SNP have peaked” say the headlines, “no appetite in Scotland for Independence”.
Depends on what happens to Margo MacDonald’s vote, could be 1 list seat in Lothina for the SNP. But those 4-5 list seats are if there’s no further erosion of the list vote, and there’s 4 days of the dreaded Herald to do its best “SNP set for overwhelming victory, the fight is all about 2nd place”.
Labour total 30, Con 22, Lib 2, Green 6.
The media onslaught is having some success, 4 days to reverse it and solidify the vote.
The labour party in Scotland have more faces than the town hall clock.
Any one with a link to “coz I’m worth it” Oliver’s rant please? Read the first paragraph then it says you need to subscribe. Was laughing at his idiotic hairy SNP supporter’s schtick so the rest must be a hoot too!
@Iain More and others
Couldn’t make up my mind at first but yes, a calculating attempt by the Sunday Herald to try to show the SNP as cocky and over-confident, presumptive on winning, and turning their attention to Independence to antagonise the SNP voiters who support the Union. Clearly deliberate and yes, Tom Gordon very sneery, and misrepresenting what’s said.
Herald has actually been better than the SH, but then there’s 4 days to go. A bit of lulling into false security perhaps, then it’s go for the throat. For them I think they’re taking the gamble of trying to help stop the SNP in its tracks and kill Independence stone dead for a “generation” – and perhaps a lifetime.
Don’t want to disturb anybody’s day of rest –
but I only just found out.
http://archive.is/8UhWw
By the way, don’t knock Dugdale’s approach, it’s a classic. “We’re losing votes because of UK Labour’s anti-semitism, but do you lot seriously think I and my party in Scotland are anti-semitic?”.
It’s a good tactic, worth a few sympathy votes.
Excellent stuff here.
http://newsnet.scot/archive/unfairness-early-2016-bbc-reporting-scotland-broadcast-anti-scottish-propaganda-83-times-15-weeks/
Red and blue tories really like Sunday times Neil Oliver dont vote SNP thing today and ofcourse Sunday Herald historic fraud’s hit the UKOK spot too.
All RT’d by tories, Dr Scott Thinks same ol unionist thuggery, but irony impaired Blair MacDougal’s the proud genius behind Project Fear 2014, who now references President Obama, who won because America chose Obama’s “hope over fear.” In the Scotland region, Scots chose McDougal’s UKOK “fear over hope.”
Neil Lovatt (2279) Retweeted
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 6h6 hours ago
Brutal. Absolutely brutal.
Neil Lovatt (2279) Retweeted
Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall 7h7 hours ago
Ooof. I hope Neil Oliver stood up from his keyboard after finishing this article & did the boom-drop-the-mic thing.
@Molly
It hasn’t been sorted here in Moray. I checked the voters roll in Elgin Library and noted the names of at least 4 holiday home owning couples all who voted Naw in the Referendum and are still on the voters roll. Not one of them spends more than 6 weeks in the year here. I know because I am the good neighbour who keeps an eye out on their places for burglars etc. It effin annoys me intensely. I know 4 of them vote Tory and two of them effin UKIP. Grrrrrrrr!
Neil Oliver…another Scot who would rather be faithful to his master and seek reward from London.
McKenna / McWhirter etc often sound like Indy supporters but the guard drops too often these days for my liking. They sound like the Labour faithful trying to nudge us back to the flock by first gaining our trust. I await more of the “..balanced, constructive criticism of the SNP” over the next few days. They like Oliver and others put the pay cheque first and accept the string pulling from above.
Sunday Herald – no renewal of subscription.
BellaCaledonia has been taken over by the nut cases – a real shame as it once complimented the articles on Wings with another perspective.
Labour still speak I like socialists and vote like Tories.
I think I will stick with this site and the SNP(X2) for my nation’s future.
I really want to go into a rant about Neil Oliver but he is not worth it. So i will keep it short.
Fawning cringing prick!
Joemcg says:
1 May, 2016 at 4:45 pm
Any one with a link to “coz I’m worth it” Oliver’s rant please? Read the first paragraph then it says you need to subscribe. Was laughing at his idiotic hairy SNP supporter’s schtick so the rest must be a hoot too!
Ruby Replies
Do you live in Glasgow or Edinburgh & do you have a library card?
I have a Edinburgh library card so I can read the whole article here
http://search.proquest.com/barcode?accountid=15842&groupid=93264
Just incase you don’t here’s a another wee bit that follows on from
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-vision-of-independence-is-same-as-the-union-but-dead-shwfm3r6l
about it. The Monster Raving Loony party was similarly compelling, but at least they found themselves funny.
But somewhere along the line something truly awful happened and the SNP became the only joke in town, and it was on us. It was all over us and all over the country.
Alex Salmond has been fond of saying independence is inevitable. He’s yesterday’s man, but still strangely unavoidable — inverted thumb tucked inside his always-clenched fist like a poker player’s tell, the giveaway of the inconvenient truth he doesn’t want us to see.
I have two issues with his more recent pronouncement — and with Nicola Sturgeon’s promise that she herself will choose the date for a second hate-fest.
First of all, simple school playground law would surely dictate that, at the very least, we would have to move on to the “best of three”? (The nationalists lost the first one, remember? I say remember, because we seem to have already forgotten the result of the one they sold us as a once-in-a-lifetime event.) So, even if there was a second referendum and they won it … (sorry, it all went dark for a minute. I think I might have passed out) … that would make it just one-all. At the very least we would have to follow the second with a decider, or am I wrong? And if a third one happened, meaning someone was 2-1 up, what’s to stop the loser demanding “best of five”? I ask, in all seriousness, where would it all end? To my way of thinking, you can only have one referendum on any given topic — and we’ve already had it. The idea of keeping on — demanding one after another until eventually the planets align in your favour and you get what you want — is to utterly compromise the integrity of the very notion of the plebiscite.
Here are some comments?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/4h8kfy/snp_vision_of_independence_is_same_as_the_union/
I could probably post the whole thing but that might not be permissable!
“[Kezia blah blah and] and put the constitutional question to one side.”
Every Yoon’s dream. And, typically accompanied with desire to “move on”, which is code for wishing things would go back to where they were.
They perhaps accept things will never be the same, but might compromise with Scotland settling with SmithLite for a decade or so.
In their dreams indeed!
Also, they absolute hate the SNP for disturbing their cosy status quo. They hate them for the changes so far, and they hate them for the inevitable changes to come.
Take Neil Oliver’s wild rant in the Times where he refers to IndyRef2 as another hate fest.
Actually he’s right. However, from where I stand Indy/SNP folks are generally cheerful, hopeful, and smiling. The BritNat Scots by contrast are are full of resentment, grievance, whinging, and worst of all hatred!
SNP is not left enough for those that sought to make it so – opponents take their anger out on SNP voters.
The Sun has always backed who it thinks will win – so opponents take their anger out on the SNP.
And so it goes on. Let’s face it, it’s not the SNP or the Sun or anyone else, it’s the damn voters who won’t do what the Yoons want.
SNP x 2
Re Neil Oilyperve (no spelling mistake)
I have a signed book of his and it is going straight to the charity shop. I will never pollute my house with his trash again.
Neil, if you’re stopping by Wings, know this; you are a snivelling excuse of a man.
And do you know what else Neil? I and my fellow Yessers are better than you because we have self respect and ambition for Scotland.
You’ll always be second best!
@ joemcg
http://archive.is/pzKgA
(courtesy of Conan above – I assume there’s only one Oliver rant and that this is therefore it)
I think the article above demonstrates that the Unionists are giving up hope.
Brian Wilson chucks it in, haven’t heard much recently from Ewan McColm, Chris Deerin, Fraser Nelson, Severin Carrell and where is Torcuil Crichton, David Clegg and Alan Cochrane?
I guess there all in the same bunker as the Labour leadership knowing that their approach to political journalism in Scotland has been a failure.
All they want now is the SG election out of the way, there is still a possibility that one or two may surface in the next few days to embarrass themselves further.
As another history buffoon like Neil Oliver said on twitter today:
Effie Deans
“Remember how everyone was commenting a year ago about UK election. Now it’s like Twitter died. Well done SNP you killed Scottish democracy”
Well done Rev and Wings, you have gone some way to killing the overwhelming stench of UKOK-Britnat journalism.
You have done that with the truth and exposing the lying hypocrites.
Thank you crazycat. I will read it when one of the three stooges are quacking shite tonight!
99% of the population will not have any knowledge of the Oliver article and even less will know what Blair McDougall is saying. The jubilant front page of the Sunday Herald might have pissed a few people off but it isn’t going to sway many — if any — one way or another.
All minor storms in small teacups.
The strategy to prevent the SNP getting a majority remains what it has been for about 8 months. The plurality or “one party state” card is the keystone for them and in the next few days you can expect more emphasis on arguments for dividing votes.
A major corollary to this is to understate the importance of the election; the goal is to engineer a low turnout. It’s interesting that nobody mentioned any front pages other than the Sunday Herald’s — my guess is most of them will not even have mentioned the election.
Notice how no big guns have came up to support unionist parties. They don’t want to draw too much attention to the fact there’s an election on.
Turnout is going to be the big story on Friday and a low turnout hits the SNP hardest.
…and thanks to Ruby too.
On Feb 2nd, I sent an email to Neil Oliver suggesting a documentary on the ‘English Alien Act -1705’ & that it could be broadcast UK wide if EBC agreed.
No reply.
Robert Pettifer’s response requested, please, Robert.
Neil Oliver makes Brian Wilson look like a moderate and fair minded critic of Independence. Another nasty and bitter cringer.
All the best in your new job Kez.
The britnat establishment loves gutless Scots like Oliver.
As a supine lapdog Oliver knows his place.
Effie Deans
“Remember how everyone was commenting a year ago about UK election. Now it’s like Twitter died. Well done SNP you killed Scottish democracy”
That’s the blue tory take on democracy what wont vote the way they say, if polls hold.
ST Footsoldier’s Diary thing is not that great usually but it ends interesting=
” I believe Labour helped save Scotland from financial meltdown. Voters thanked us by deserting us. Now more are abandoning us for trying to move on from etc etc”
“Vote SLab, we saved Scotland from…!” is a great vote SLabour 2016 slogan.
You have to wonder if Slab footsoldiers ever get asked stuff like, why then did Chancellor Crash Gordon run up such giant debts and bring us to financial meltdown though, as he ended boom and bust.
Well now that the Brit Nat toady Oliver has been allowed to spin his head and vomit can we expect more of the same from Jakey KR before Thursday or indeed on Thursday.
“Kez Dugdale try’s to reach out to yes voter “and pull her away from being further assaulted by labour MP!
Hit the send button early…….
Neil Oliver is Scotland’s version of David Starkey, just without the wit and charisma.
@Provost Sludden
Neil Oliver is Scotland’s version of David Starkey, just without the wit and charisma.
Hahaha brilliant 🙂
Re. Neil Oliver. What a poor we soul, with his cargo cultist reverence for Yoon mythology and his resistance to semiotic rationality.
Neil Oliver
Never heard of the “Social Coefficient” or “Creative Destruction”? What about disjointed incrementalism or the semiotics of space and place?
Imagine being a journalist that knows that only the Yoons will believe your lies as they will be exposed on Wings.
What’s the point in writing then if your purpose is to persuade?
Re: the Sunday Herald
For the first time in years the SH was not in it’s usual spot (hidden) on the bottom shelf at the Co-op, nor was it anywhere further up.
Asked the shopkeeper why there were none left, he gave a wee smile and a wink and says “we didnae get any today” ;-D
Fank Thuck
These so called journalists never let you comment BTL on their scribbling if you are in anyway critical or oppose their bias views. Instead you can find yourself banned from commenting on all articles in the same Unionist newspaper.
Get this election over and let’s turn our attention BTL here to the media liars. All of them, they make it personal when they judge their comment.
We know they all read here, criticism when it’s due should be printed for all to read.
How’s that for “Free Speech” Mr big time gobshite?
Neil Oliver is Scotland’s version of David Starkey, just without the wit and charisma.
Starkey’s got wit and charisma!? They are much the much but British history’s entirely dominated by England, as in the UK defeated the Nazi’s and so on. Oliver’s just like BBC history star Simon Schama, who really laid into Scotland running Scotland with usual creepy UKOK style of Project Fear, told the torygraph
“Simon Schama, the television historian, who has previously spoken out against the break-up of the Union, told the magazine that Scottish independence was Britain’s version of the drift towards the “horrible” break-up of the nation state around the world.
He said the same forces behind calls for Scottish independence were “happening in dreadful places, causing ethnic and tribal wars, immense massacres”.
Same forces of unionism are on the way out of Scotland quite peacefully so far though.
@heedtracker
There is no better put down than sarcasm.
Starkey, wit and charisma LOL
crazycat says:
1 May, 2016 at 5:33 pm
@ joemcg
http://archive.is/pzKgA
(courtesy of Conan above – I assume there’s only one Oliver rant and that this is therefore it)
Ruby replies
That looks like the same article that I read except the ending in the one I read which I presume is from the hard copy of The Times ends with the following (all in upper case):
SALMOND IS A BIG, ROUND WRECKING BALL, SHAPED ONLY TO DO DAMAGE. HE FAILS TO COMPREHEND WHAT IT IS HE DESPISES
Credit: NEIL OLIVER
SNP vision of independence is same as the Union, but dead [Scot Region]
Oliver, Neil. Sunday Times [London (UK)] 01 May 2016: 27.
Word count: 993
This is a career move by Oliver, say bad things about the SNP,say bad things about Independence and you are friend of UKOK.
Soon he will be asked his opinions on the BBC, maybe a panelist on Question Time!
Of course he will be promoted,and in UKOK media demand.
Then,he will be popular with Cameron.That is all Moan did, and she got a seat in the Lords, so who knows where stuff like this will lead him? I guess this is brilliant idea.
Neil Oliver is a third rate, c list wannabe celeb. He is in thrall to his London masters and is happy to accept their coin to the detriment of Scotland.
He claims he is old enough to remember when “a hopelessly low number of votes would be attributed to the Nationalist candidate”
Strange then that six years after he was born Margo MacDonald won the 1973 Govan by-election for the SNP.A year after that when Neil Oliver was seven years old, Douglas Crawford won in my area of Perth and East Perthshire.
Even as far back as the 1950s the SNP candidates were polling in the thousands, albeit the low thousands.
When an alleged Historian/Archaeologist reduces himself to telling porkies it makes me wonder if in all these programmes he has appeared in he was just making it up as he goes along.
David Starkey
For readers of Wings who might not be familiar with his views:
“Minor fringe things like the BNP and whatever they are nothing compared to the SNP”
Historian David Starkey Compares SNP To Nazis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcngNMaPnD8
Re my comment regarding the Sunday Herald.
I’m not looking for a paper to slavishly praise the SNP at every turn, but the deceitful nature of today’s edition, including the editorial and the letters page isn’t something I’m happy wasting money on.
Our history has examples which warn us to be wary of publications ‘supporting’ Scottish independence.
Maybe I’m being too paranoid, but given the nature of the beast we are dealing with, caution is justified.
As for Neil Oliver, I always preferred Tony Pollard, his companion in the ‘Two Men In a Trench’ series. Someone I’d happily have a drink with.
Out Now!
http://tinyurl.com/zwhrnog
Oh Kez. Make up your mind.
I really do not believe that anyone who voted Yes could ever be wooed back. Slab showed their true colours and that can never be hiden again.
STV on line news are reporting that a new Time’s commissioned Panelbase poll put Slab back into second place. Though an STV poll this week pulls Slab down yet again.
A dead heat between Slab and the Stories might be quite funny. Neither could gloat though they’d probably try!
@ScottishPsyche says:
The Sun has always backed who it thinks will win – so opponents take their anger out on the SNP.
———
Lots of indignation on social media at Nicola taking an endorsement from the Scottish Sun. Including disappointingly, some who should know better like Lesley Riddoch..
Seriously what is worse?
A tabloid newspaper or the Tories lording it over Scotland from London ?
Some people need to get their priorities straight, and at least accept it as a means to reach a huge audience.
The SNP needs support from everyone, and I’m glad Nicola isn’t too snobby to turn her nose up at Scotland’s biggest selling paper and the mostly working class readers who buy it.
Remember the days when we had no support in the media at all ?
Connan the Librarian @ 12.24pm
Thank you for that link to Neil Oliver’s ‘piece’ in the Times.
What a bitter angry ignorant wee man.
When he sees his words in print for all the world to view will he not cringe with the most excruiating embarassment and shame?!
Re his position as a television ‘historian’, I once knew a fair few folk in the world of archaeology in Scotland and I cannot imagine they would rate that article or his television series. They are a pretty discerning and highly academic bunch.
That article exposed N.O. as ignorant, bitter and hateful.
I paraphrase: ‘the Temple (the union) would fall…that had taken centuries to build’ What do mean Neil? By such as the Clearances?!
We need to be able to believe our historians every bit as much as our jornalists and reporters, to trust that they are imparting truthful and unbiassed information.
If they lack integrity and intellegence then their words are at best worthless and at worst dangerous and damaging.
Everyone ‘got’ what that Sunday Herald front page is aiming to do.
There’s no doubt that it was a deliberately provocative last stance tactic to undermine Nicola in the eyes of the ignorant. They revealed their true colours the Sunday before our elections.
There is no dubiety here. Neil Mackay is not Richard Walker.
It’s becoming increasingly and now finally transparently clear after today’s front page, that Walker was ‘removed’. Of that there is no doubt.
How can a man who was so passionately engaged, having persuaded his bosses to produce a new paper in Scotland have left that so suddenly within it’s first year? It has never made any kind of sense. Now it does.
Thepnr says:
1 May, 2016 at 6:29 pm
@heedtracker
There is no better put down than sarcasm.
They all work for the BBC which is all you need to know about Oliver and Starkey UKOK types.
They probably cant really accept just how much UKOK world has shrivelled, right down to merely ProjectFearing Scotland 2014.
Hammer of the Scots McTernan’s heading off to sort out Canada with his RT on maps of Canada but look at the size of all the continents our imperial masters went around their Rule Britannia world saying, ours, ours, ours…
Scotland was their first Rule Britannia bash and hopefully their last too.
John McTernan Retweeted
Simon Wookey ?@Simon_in_London 1h1 hour ago
15 Interesting Maps That Will Change The Way You See Canada:
neil bruce @6.41
So so true..In 1974 the SNP ended up with 33% of the vote.
That shitehawk Oliver should be dragged over the coals for spreading lies and misinformation,and as for that rag of paper words fail me.
SNP x 2
You know it makes sense.
At least Starkey stands up for England. What is it with Scottish historians? Niall Ferguson’s another.
Was good to see my mother (81) with SNP flyers etc. today.
Seems that some former Labour voters in the pensioners set have zimmer framed away from the sinking ship for the Holyrood vote.
OT
Cameron Needs More Than a Narrow Win to Resolve Brexit Debate
http://www.wsj.com/articles/cameron-needs-more-than-a-narrow-win-to-resolve-brexit-debate-1462125560
“Only a decisive victory would give Mr. Cameron a strong mandate to reassert control of his party and rebuild trust with the rest of the EU, playing a constructive role in tackling common challenges facing the continent. A narrow victory would raise the prospect of a “neverendum,” as in Scotland, where a 55/45% vote against independence in 2014 hasn’t been sufficient to remove talk of a second referendum.”
Guys N Gals ….. The SNP 1 Greens 2 mob are massing over on Newsnet. Scot …… In numbers out of proportion to their vote …..
It seems the photo used by the Sun maybe a fake and that it came from a photo of the Dandy. Lol
https://twitter.com/coachpolarbear/status/726838715247636480
Kez and Ruthie cat fight re polls;
Kez: I’m second best!
Ruthie: No I’m second best!
Kez: No I’m second best!
Continues……ad infinitum..
The Neil Oliver article made me laugh!
He seems to be a very angry man having a tantrum!
Why are these mad Yoonsters like Neil Oliver & Kevin Hague still fighting the ‘Better Together’ fight?
Don’t they know the IndyRef 2014 is over that they can have a rest until IndyRef2?
K1 …. Totally agree re the Sunday Herald……. I’ve read some time back, Neil MacKay saying he was not a supporter of Independence for Scotland. They’ve pulled off a neat trick, keeping the paper in business by appealing to a pro Indy readership, then come election time deliver “The Message ” the National is up to a similar game…… Over the last month the front pages have done very little to help the SNP, the papers been plugging SNP 1 Greens 2 for some time now……
Hey psst are you a motor bike from the 90’s ?
Giving Goose @ 1 May, 2016 at 7:43 pm
They’re both fighting over who is second best when we all know they’re both 3rd rate politicians!
What the **** is the dead dog business?
Has Pet Planet gone into liquidation?
‘and with Nicola Sturgeon’s promise that she herself will choose the date for a second hate-fest.’
hate-fest!!!! The man is a complete nutter!
‘Union is a dream shared by a people and kept real only by their imagination and conviction. If we neglect to maintain it, the temple will fall.’
I’ve heard the expression ‘my body is a temple’ but ‘the Unions is a temple’ is a new one on me.
The Union is a dream!!!! 🙂
Am I the only one that finds this article a total hoot?
Aye Clydebuilt I was, must be a ‘small world’ right enough 😉
@Onwards,
The photo of Nicola holding the Sun was actually photoshopped. She was at DC Thomsons and was actually holding a copy of the Dandy. Go figure.
‘Vote SNP — they want to shoot the dog but it’s OK: after it’s dead you can still keep it in your bedroom and stroke it just like always. Maybe give it a new name. Call it Independence.’
I wonder what kind of dog he had in mind when he wrote the above?
He’s compared the Union to a temple & a dream and a dog!
The man is barking!
Och I think we have crossed lines here Clydebuilt, just re read your psst…your’e asking if I am a ‘motor biker’ from the 90’s? I’m answering that I had a motorbike from the 90’s, it’s because you had bike rather than biker. The reason I said I ‘was’ is because I sold my motor bike from the 90’s a few months back.
@Clydebuilt
Isn’t mostly one user posting over and over again?
To be honest I find both those shouting SNPx2 or SNP/Green equally tiresome when they make it a blanket policy across all regions.
I’m voting SNP/Green – because that’s my preference, and because I’m in Glasgow, where the Greens usually poll at around 15% and I think they could come close to second on the list this time.
If I were in, say the South region for instance, then I’d probably play it tactically and go SNPx2. But again, in most regions, it’s hard to tell how things will play out anyway. Vote for you like best unless they truly don’t stand a chance.
Anyone tuning in to the debate on the Beeb? I’m not.
Schama , Starkey and Oliver – charismatic? Starkey was never off QT offering his particular nasty brand of denigration.
Now we have the wee man wi’ the lang locks giving it ,Scotland bad , SNP bad , Alex Salmond awfy bad – crap from start to finish.
Why did someone think he could pen an article “worthy” of the MSM?
No answer required!
Please remember, folks, Neil Oliver is beneath contempt and completely insignificant. For one thing, he is an archaeologist, not a historian, and he is certainly not a political analyst. And as an archaeologist, if “Two Men in a Trench” was anything to go by, not much of an archaeologist either. He is a sad little man sucking up to his Imperial Masters, just another Scottish sell-out in a depressingly long list of Tartan Bamber Gascgoines.
Ollie and his like are silly and temporary, but true values persist.
And, in this vein, some spiritual refreshment from someone who fought in a terrible war but longed to return to his sweetheart.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qWWgntTdO0
Fucking Bastards ganging up on Nicola Sturgeon. Willie Rennie is a totally sneaky fucking bastard. This audience is predominantly unionist, bussed in lackeys. Where is the representation of half of Scotland’s population who have voted for the SNP. This is fucking sickening.
They are hammering this referendum stuff relentlessly, This is a rigged audience, the levels of applause for Davidson and Rennie utterly fucking unbelievable…this is a total stitch up!!!
Anyone tuning in to the debate on the Beeb? I’m not.
BBC debate audience is worth seeing just to watch them roaring their heads off for NO more referendum on Scotland running Scotland, shock.
Actually its anything yoon culture what gets biggest BBC audience cheers.
I can’t believe how loaded this audience it, it’s shameful, despicable…utterly despicable….I’m fucking raging. This is a total fucking set up. Those bastards!
The main clue that the photo might be a Photoshop has to be that the cover she’s shown holding is.
Och Tinto Chiel , I liked Bamber Gascoigne – and he was a damn sight more acceptable than JeremyBurnswrotedoggerelPaxman who sneered at students when they got questions wrong on UC. Trumped up , self congratulatory ,like many on the BBBC.
Oliver is a UKOK mini me. Not fit to shine Salmond’s boots. Wee twerp, although I did enjoy the modern history piece on the saviour of the union by his alter ego Bonnie Prince Bob, surely his finest 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afRE3RwLwaE
Another vote of confidence for the BBC
http://newsnet.scot/citizen/unfairness-early-2016-bbc-reporting-scotland-broadcast-anti-scottish-propaganda-83-times-15-weeks/
BBC Debate – Ruth lying through her teeth and constantly talking over NS. The BBC cannot help themselves – another rigged audience.
The former Labour leaders daughter needs to get Davidson to shut up.
Rancid The Graun having a lovely UKOK debate time too, if only Britnat’s rags could also cheer as loud as yoon loaded BBC debate audience tonight.
“Rennie claims SNP are ‘anti-democratic’ in wanting another independence referendum
Rennie says he does not want to spend the next five years arguing about independence.
We had one of the biggest democratic experiences of our lifetime.
Did they not get the message? … I would even go so far as saying they’re anti-democratic.
K1,
don’t worry about them.Nicola isn’t.
For the sake of unionism, disguised as “democracy”, The National will continue to promote the Greens and RISE, at the expense of the SNP, for the next few days.
From Friday, it will start sounding very “pro independence” again, to milk the more gullible independence supporters.
It has planted its lobbyists on this blog.
Don’t be duped. Don’t buy The National.
Vote SNP+SNP.
I see Neil Oliver is doing some coast thing focussed on Australia. He will probably return advocating “transportation to Botany Bay” for the seditious who speak out against the Union and the sacrosanct Glorious British Unwritten Constitution.
He will then propose that a latter day General Wade crush the rebellious Scots, advice still to be found on one of the verses of God Save the Queen.
FIX, FIX, FIX.
K1-totally agree. It’s like a yoon rock concert. Nicola at one point even looked at the roaring audience with a look on her face that said “what the fuck is going on here?”
Wullie Rennie doesn’t want to spend the next five years arguing about independence because he would lose. Besides, who is Wullie Rennie anyway? I think it was Revstu who once said Rennie was a ‘sheep in sheep’s clothing’.
heedtracker,
“Rancid The Graun having a lovely UKOK debate time too,”
Why don’t you stop buying or reading it?
It has shown its true colours.
Dorothy, I quite agree. Bamber, is, I am sure, a really nice guy and the only host who knew all the answers to the questions. I only use Bamber because he was a quizmaster and it’s my only way of getting around the Rev’s filter on the Q Word.
As for the Unspeakable Paxo, I loved it when he discovered he had a Glaswegian Granny. Thought he was going to slit his wrists…..
Nasty little racists in the Establishment, I’ve always found.
Bye bye Sunday Herald, Not long now – ashamed to have supported this paper. Btw who in Scotland reads The Times or the Sunday Times ? Ignore the self serving crap dished up by wannabees like Neil Oliver who are only interested in raising their own profile with the UKOK establishment.
Has anyone mentioned the referendum yet?
Utter bollocks from Kezia as she claims that under Labour folk will be able to see a physio within 48 hours.
Rock says:
1 May, 2016 at 8:44 pm
heedtracker,
“Rancid The Graun having a lovely UKOK debate time too,”
Why don’t you stop buying or reading it?
Because Scotland is still a region owned and run by England’s high tories, using BBC led media like Graun creep out. Also rancid The Graun is not behind a fire wall:D
They’re also fabulous liars and hypocrites, nice Torygraph, which they very creepily try to hide.
So that’s fun too.
Mr Oliver is essentially QED on any unionist attitude toward ‘building bridges’ or ‘olive branches’.
I’d say his piece today effectively bursts that bubble.
As for the hate? The only people charged with violent acts and intimidation during the entire indyref that I’m aware of were (answers on a postcard)? Then of course there was the very imagery of love n’ hugs we all saw in George Sq. on 19th September. Of course the media and political opponents of both independence and the Scottish government have been veritable care bears of better togetherness in the past twenty months to boot. Who can forget headlines such as Tartan Stalinists, the McMafia, Oh and the most Dangerous Woman in Britain? Class, just class.
For a historian he should perhaps remember that public record and images can be powerful arguments. You can only conclude that either Mr Oliver isn’t a very observant historian or like any other human being, his academic objectivity takes a hike where personal belief systems are involved.
Who knew?
We remember though and we know how we and the wider Scottish electorate have been treated since that day. Not feelin’ the lurve so far. Has to be said.
The way Neil oliver behaves is akin to those Scots who on travelling to London for the first time, ‘join in’ with the ‘jock bashing’ they experience – it’s all ‘just banter’ after all. ‘We’re all british’ eh? Those who don’t go along with such things are termed .’chippy jocks’.
Sad to say their have been many born in Scotland who have been dazzled by London’s bright lights, and who indulge in the Scottish cringe, in order to ingratiate themselves to the folks down south. They spend their lives talking down the land of their birth.
Unsurprisingly, a disgracefully rigged audience tonight. There are at least as many Tories as SNP in the audience and far more unionists. Davidson given free reign to talk over Nicola.
Both votes SNP but I really hope the Greens overtake the morally bankrupt Liberals. Patrick Harvie good on the second referendum question.
K1 says: 8:33 pm
I can’t believe how loaded this audience it, it’s shameful, despicable…utterly despicable….I’m fucking raging. This is a total fucking set up.
The good thing is you won’t be the only one raging. Their biased baiting of the SNP hasn’t worked in the past, it just stirs up those emotions all over again making us more determined to oust the lot of them. They’ll keep on trying. They just can’t help themselves. Last chance to take Nicola down.
As Dod Bush senior would say “not gonna happen.”
Beat them at the ballot box, it’s the only way.
Poor Kez. She would always vote No to Independence. That is it settled. She obviously sees and acknowledges that there will be a Referendum 2. Whether she votes No or not, many millions will vote Yes and next time the Yes will be successful. Does she think that her one wee vote will stem the tide? There is naïve arrogance or dimness indeed.
Being in a party of the Union from Scotland with one MP, does not say much about that party.
In fact, the unionists dahn sath, like the Russian Soviets under Gorbachev, did not care latterly about their “union” and its “unionists” in the Soviet satellite states because they had become insignificant like the three Scottish MPs from the UK parties and ditched them. Perhaps, a similar fate awaits Ruth, Kezia and Willie and their union parties.
As their branches are not delivering, they will be jettisoned as diminishing returns.
K1
Yeah, on the evidence of audience applause alone a Martian could be forgiven for thinking that Buffalo Gal or Wee Wullie were hitting 50% or more in the polls … But it was always thus, three or more Unionists versus one SNP representative, and three-quarter of the audience outnumbering a small SNP contingent … Not quite representative of the political condition of Scotland, and therefore democratically skewed.
The SNP must surely have a rethink about taking part in these BBC showtrials.
Looking at the set up on stage at the debate, as they are touting Ruthie ” to hold the SNP to account” To encourage Ruthie to badger Nicola, they place them together. Ruthie cannot shut up, designed to happen.
What a set up with the audience, just hearing the clapping when Dugdale said no to another Indie.
It is a chosen crowd, again. This would never be this from a balanced crowd.
Again,fixed.
You have to wonder if there’s something about historians which makes them so pro-union: Neil Oliver, Niall Ferguson, Allan Massie, etc. Or is it just that the likes of Tom Devine, Michael Fry, and the late David R. Ross are just ignored?
BTW, for those interested: update on the Inverclyde kerfuffle:
So let me get this straight. A board which happens to have 6 Labour Councillors on it plans for massive cuts and closures in a *draft document*. The Scottish Government announce the budget, which includes a significant uplift of almost £100 million. The final document has ZERO REFERENCES to cuts and closures, even though the draft had been leaked a month before the final publication.
… And who gets attacked for this? The SNP. Even though there are SIX LABOUR COUNCILLORS on the board WHICH WROTE THE DOCUMENT CONTAINING THE CUTS.
Blaming the SNP for budget cuts. Like blaming the SNP for you smashing the vase, because the SNP told you to move it.
Impartial BBC makes sure that each of the five political parties have equal audience share. aye right!
Good shout from the last contributor as the 17 Edinburgh schools that have been closed cost the City council £17.4 million a year for the next 15 to 20 years before any of the education budget can be spent on educating pupils.
Yet Labour have the cheek to complain bout education cuts and I don’t know why the SNP don’t make more of the Labour / Lib Dem PFI scandal.
Bother, forgot the link:
https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2016/05/01/revelations/
You’d think they’d know better, considering the council elections are next year.
OMG Kezia was toe-curlingly hopeless. Shes even more useless than Willie Rennie – perhaps her greatest achievement in Scottish politics.
Ruth is a poison dwarf.
And hasn’t Patrick got his badge on upside-down? Shouldnt the green bit be at the bottom like a green mountain with the blue sky above it?
My poor wee dug shat himself after Rennie’s “anti-democratic” speech. The decibel volume hit spinal tap proportions coming through the telly speakers. Level playing field? Aye right.
@Derek Cameron
I think the Times and Sunday Times are heavily boosting their figures in Scotland through giveaways+promos…hotels and such. Like the Torygraph – if you go to WH Smith at the airport (past security), you get a free bottle water if you buy the Torygraph – which works out cheaper than just the bottle of water… I have since worked out that’s it cheaper still to purchase water from Boots and a couple of other shops mind you.
Watching the debate right now , when you get a sustained and loud applause for both Tory and labour you have to wonder what the f/k is going on here , the only person answering the questions put without have a go at other party’s was Nicola Sturgeon . By the looks of it it’s a f/n stitch up .
My that was a surprise now wasn’t it .
‘It’s becoming increasingly and now finally transparently clear after today’s front page, that Walker was ‘removed’. Of that there is no doubt.’
That is definitely a possibility, but it’s also maybe possible that after asking supporters of Independence to back him, that he did not want to remain part of what clearly now looks to be a front of deception.
Eeek, it sounds like I made the right decision not watching. Some of these debates can be rather funny, but this one wouldn’t have been good for my blood pressure.
I think Sturgeon did very well, despite a rigged audience in terms of independence support. It did seem to be the Sturgeon v Davidson show, with Dugdale sidelined for much of the hour.
Willie Rennie allowed to get away with an appalling comment about Sturgeon being anti-democratic. Part of me hopes he loses his seat, but then again, I think he is a liability for his party.
Don’t think that debate is going to change any votes though.
With the focus back on independence for the last few day, I think the SNP will hold onto the 45% at least, whilst the unionist vote is divided.
45% will ensure largest party – but might not be enough for a majority.
Both votes SNP I think will be needed.
Taking no chances at this stage.
Eeek, it sounds like I made the right decision not watching.
You didn’t need to watch them, just listen, as audience roared for the union very loud and then even louder for no more referendum. Its a BBC miracle of broadcasting.
I’m no BBC Scotland dude but if I was, I’d be using that NO roaring debaterising audience in every election thing I do, for ever.
To think we were shocked at that last BBC Question Time Dundee UKOK freak out with David Dimbelby.
I really wish someone had stood up to ask why we should respect the result of a referendum for which the Unionist media displayed utter cynicism and contempt before it ever went to the polls. The only issue settled by the 2014 referendum was the de facto confirmation it delivered that inappropriate bias, wilful and deliberate scaremongering, manipulation of the narrative and agenda should serves no purpose whatsoever besides compromising the result. As far as I’m concerned, the relative merits of sovereign Independence over devolved government have barely even been touched upon. Settled for a generation? I beg to differ.
Add to that, the innumerable betrayals and broken promises suffered upon Scotland since the result, and I would sign up for a new Independence referendum tomorrow, – provided the preambles and debates were conducted properly by some agency other than the BBC.
I also had a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp when Nicola was going on about how the SNP supports small businesses… Keep calm Breeks. Count to 10…. Deep breaths now…
Kezia insisted that it was a once I a once in a lifetime vote for independence. It was actually once on a generation. That is different. New generations come and old ones go. There is a generation that has not yet had a vote for independence – those who have just attained the age to vote.
Now that (voting for) independence is a fact and an ongoing issue in Scottish society, even the unionists keep raising it, it will not “die”.
What Kezia meant with “once in a lifetime”, we have no idea. But her political life as a leader of the Slab might be short term. It seems, like Jeremy Corbyn, the opponents are circling already.
What is also apparent from the debate, was that the unionist parties are at each other’s throats to acquire second place as opposition. Ruth wants to hold the SNP to account. – high sounding waffle. The people will do that.
It will be interesting to see the Jesters in some parts of the Scottish press reacting to another SNP victory after their constant litanies of SNP bad. I am thinking of Hjulnin the Courier and Cochrane in the Telegraph. After their ” efforts” so far to besmirch the SNP resulting in the swing to the SNP last year, may be a wee P45 might be soon in the post. It is sad to see failure.
Oh I don’t know if continuing to watch this piss , Wullie Rennie just been cheered for opposing a second referumdum , and that b/sturd Tory being allowed to constantly shout over interupt and try and being allowed to take over from the impartial Smith who is supposed to be in charge ,
Neil Oliver. Well, let’s go back before the Referendum, and before he announced his Unionship. Back to 2008 or so, when the BBC came out with History of Scotland with Neil Oliver commentating. It was interesting, and I like the scnerey of course and the history but it was dead, totally without passion. The guy might as well have been commenting on different shapes of cowpats. It also wasn’t too accurate.
Then in 2012 we have Huw Edwards “Story of Wales”. A totally different beast, and Huw Edwards love of Wales came over in just about every sentence. I really don’t think he had much time for the then residents of England who he seemed to think still lived in caves and hadn’t found the wheel yet. Same for the Saxons.
As for Wales it was running a maritime empire well before Henry the VIII chopped down all the trees, and accoreding to Huw Edwards who may have exaggerated slightly, owned the world and the known universe. And he read the news for the BBC.
So that’s the comparison, Huw Edwards loves Wales, Neil Oliver loves himself and it’s unrequited love at that.
I simply don’t watch the debates. Winds me up too much. Saw the preview – Sarah smith at hopetoun house! Lol. Did anyone expect anything different?
As for ruthie, she’ll be elected through a voting system her party rejects.
So, to summarise for those who don’t pay the TV tax: it was rigged , the audience were bussed in and they all ganged up on Nicola.
Use your anger and frustration to maximise the vote on Thursday.
FFS, Scotland, let’s finish the Unionists off.
Both barrels, SNP.
Anyone voting for the SNP does so knowing they are giving them an option on a second referendum. To claim that is not a mandate is simply untrue. What the SNP are not doing is committing themselves to a fixed time or even to holding one before they know they have a chance of winning. If the combined totals of all pro-independece votes on both the constituency and list ballots is over 50% then that’s a mandate on the SNPs terms. I note that Ruth didn’t answer the question put to her as to whether she’d ask the PM to block one.
That does bring up a possible question about the reserved nature of the constitution. Obviously Holyrood can’t alter the UK constitution unilaterally. However that doesn’t mean we can’t vote to leave the UK. At that point it would be up to the rUK to ammend their constitution to acknowledge that fact or they’d then be claiming jurisdiction of territory that the No longer had any legitimate right to. Same as the RoI withdrawing from the UK forced similar changes.
I thought tonight’s debate was pretty well managed and reasonably fair. Smith, the host, someone that usually makes me grind my teeth, was pretty even-handed.
The audience was odd but not because it was predominately unionist but because the third that was unionist was very loud. Thumping and cheering could be heard whenever an anti-SNP / pro-unionist point was made but when you look at the footage only about one third of the audience (if that) were actively involved there.
Ruth Davidson distinguished herself as a foaming at the mouth bully and anti-Scottish psychopath. But Patrick Harvie, not for the first time, helped even things out and his attacks on the Tories were potent.
The Unionists seem to have given up trying to win votes by constantly attacking Nicola and seem to have realised not only that it looks bad but that they might have more to gain by bashing each other. They actually attacked each other tonight which was refreshing and Nicola looked tired and glad of the respite.
The apparent division in Scotland suggests that a third of us are hard core believers in Independence, a third of us are hard core unionists, and a third are sort of neutral and open to persuasion.
Instead of working ourselves up and investing our energy in counter-productive displays of hatred and paranoia, we should try and remain objective and devote ourselves to the merits of the argument.
Breeks-a blonde female near the end skimmed the surface of what you are saying with her comment near the end with another yoon on the moon disagreeing like a Churchill dog watching a tennis match in the same row. You may have articulated the point better I think.
I’m currently on the receiving end of my wife’s venom, after she’d just watched the “Debate”.
I had warned her not to watch as BBC leopards never change their spots – and we thought the Dundee audience was rigged??
SNP+SNP, then a broadcasting bill for Scotland , perhaps!!!
It would be great, if for once the audience was picked using a current percentage in one of the Scottish political poles.
It’s little wonder, when the referendum question came up in tonight’s debate, that the majority in the audience were unionists, balanced?, no it was not, that’s why I’d love to see one debate on the form I suggested, surely that would display a more true indication of public feeling.
Orri: the English assert the sovereignty of their Parliament. We know better: our sovereignty resides in the people, Lord Cooper and all that. We have separate laws from England, as befits two separate kingdoms, so it doesn’t matter what they say.
It makes it very, very important that we maximise the SNP vote on both votes, so that we can demonstrate the overweening will of the Scottish people.
Drip, drip, drip, and then Endgame.
Taranaich @ 9:07pm
Inverclyde?
Where the leader of the Council blocks anyone on twitter that asks any questions?
Where vile and nasty comments about SNP Supporters are applauded and encouraged by Labour Party members?
Where they want to spend £80,000 on a toilet in the council buildings?
Where £300,000+ is to be spent on a statue for a roundabout?
Where the leader of the Council accuses the token Tory Councillor of trying to “out” LBGT people at a meeting?
Where there has been continuous attacks on the SNP Candidate on Social Media?
Where failed Labour councillor candidates get council contracts?
Where Labour tried to take credit for the SNP being instrumental in rescuing Fergusons?
Where Labour member at Fergusons said about their prospects at the upcoming Elections “It’s fucking terrible,” said one Labour activist? http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/20/scottish-elections-snp-dominance-leaves-opponents-fighting-for-second
Where public land is sold off to their mates?
Where the potholes are never filled in?
Where the town centre looks like a war zone?
Reading the link it certainly looks like Labour have leaked the document to “socialist” brothers and sisters and then to the Greenock Telegraph owned by Newsquest.
Whoever leaked the document needs to be brought to account as the legality of the situation not to mention the credibility of the individual needs to be looked at. Whoever it is should resign immediately but it’ll be swept under the carpet like most things in Inverclyde.
It’s reminds me of the whole French Ambassador situation with Liar Carmichael except done half arsed as is expected with Labour Inverclyde!
Neocontroll said “I thought tonight’s debate was pretty well managed and reasonably fair.”
In the words of one Victor Meldrew, “You must be @*&@”£@ joking!!”
Go fuck yourself. Wanker.
We’re winning, I sense it.
There comes a point where everyone get’s tired and are ready to quit. We heard it from Derek Bateman last week but also from Brian Wilson this week.
Bateman got the fillip he needed from the Independence supporters on his blog and will keep going at least until the election. Good for him.
Nobody though encouraged Wilson when said he was off.
For this election at least their goose is cooked, keep the pressure on, we need ALL of them to fold. They will do too, they hate and despise ridicule, so give them some. They live only for adulation, so laugh at them. They should be ridiculed for their reporting is ridiculous in terms of reality.
I hope you do realise that it YOU who read Wings and comment that have them running. Their is no hiding place for them now. All their lies are exposed here for all to see.
These sycophants for Unionist parties have no problem in hunting down ordinary people like you and me and “exposing” them in the likes of the right wing rag Daily Mail in an attempt to lose them their jobs or ridicule them.
Bite back, give them a taste of their own medicine.
The Unionist media needs to be destroyed, after this election let’s make that certain. We might not beat the BBC yet but we can definitely defeat these Unionist placemen first.
One at a time, BBC next.
Well from the sounds of it here I am glad I stuck by my earlier decision not to watch the Sarah Smith UKOK creep show.
I got the housework that I had planned for tomorrow done. Now I have a free day to annoy Brit Nats constantly and get right the noses of quizzers tomorrow.
Sassenach, the audience wasn’t rigged; the sound engineer might have been but the audience wasn’t. Watch it with the sound down and you’ll clearly see what percentage are clapping.
In terms of questions and points made by the audience, I actually thought it was more than even and possibly favoured the SNP.
We had a guy from the shipyards about to lose his job, another young guy asked about what right politicians had to stand in the way of a second referendum, and a woman near the front with blonde hair who was scathing in her assessment of the lies that won the referendum of 2014 and how they had double-crossed us since.
I actually can’t think of one point or question from the audience that was distinctly pro-unionist — the closest we got was a fairly neutral doctor making some general point about administration or something.
Can anyone give an example of an overtly pro-unionist point or question from the audience in that debate? We can check.
In tonight’s debate, when the question of a second referendum came up, I thought Wullie Rennie was going to do a “Alistair Carmichael”, well he is, after all a LibDem eh.
I didn’t watch it either. I’ve just finished watching “Outlander” on Amazon Prime. More rewarding.
I wonder when it will occur to the Imperial Masters that the more they try to manipulate the optic the more determined we are to get rid of every last scheming one of them.
Last year Westminster, this year Holyrood, next year the Councils.
Then we become a self-determined country, elect our own government and manage our own affairs.
Thepnr: yes.
There is always a point when the damn begins to yield and then the inevitable happens.
The Yoons are desperate and don’t know what to do, despite all the efforts of VichyVision.
Let’s keep the pressure up: four days to go.
Damn, I was so upset I broke my own rule about feeding trolls! Sorry – I blame that non-biased debate!
@neoconman above.
I tend to skim past your trolling but be warned, my patience with your shite is wearing thin.
…..
As for the “debate”.
What a load of shite that was.
Loaded questions, waay too long spent on referendum so that the lack of actual policies from the goon yoon squad would not be overly exposed.
What did we learn ?
…….
Ruth is a wee nasty tory boot.
Nicola still wants independence .
Kezia is still lost in clown cuckoo land.
Patrick talks a good game and is nice.
Willie is a complete irrelevence.
Sarah Smith is beyond dull.
….
Ah well, roll on Thursday, when the REAL version, rather than the pretendy “look a squirrel” BBC version, of Scotland’s political voice, BOOMS its opinion of it’s politicians VERY loud and VERY clear.
Counting the sleeps……?
a couple of times i thought the applause sounded to clipped and canned
i could be wrong, jus’ saying
Neo-are you at the wind up? Nicola was clearly shocked at the roaring and screaming from the audience. The three unionists all at one point during the programme had a go at Nicola or the SNP. Include Smith that’s 4 v 1.Balanced and fair? You’re taking the pish.
Studio audiences are collected by low-paid programme researchers.
They know their brief, but are unable because of lack of time and money to meet people in advance of the show, and unskilled at sensing phony submissions because they’re ex-students wet behind the ears. Invariably they can’t and don’t check if designated groups are who they say they are. Claims of a balanced audience are usually bluff.
They rely of partisan leaders to assemble a given number, with a few seats left for ‘individuals’ on a first come, first served basis.
The producer then steps in to run their eye over names ensuring none are called ‘Rev S. Campbell.’
@ Tinto Chiel
Glad to see you back commenting – with yer Thomas Muir moniker too.
Election fever breaking out like an epidemic!
Roll on Thursday – will definitely stay up late for the post mortem. No popcorn (an American affectation) but maybe drinks and sandwiches.
Watched it too!! It was reasonable as far as the previous crap we have experienced from B.B.C England in past programmes of so called “Leader Debates” within Scottish Politics? ,But the AUDIENCE WAS RIGGED too many Applauses for the Unionist audience too be a coincidence!! B.B.C. Psycological games to the fore Again>
Robert Louis says:
1 May, 2016 at 8:44 pm
“Wullie Rennie doesn’t want to spend the next five years arguing about independence because he would lose. Besides, who is Wullie Rennie anyway? I think it was Revstu who once said Rennie was a ‘sheep in sheep’s clothing’.”
Jings, whit an insult tae a yow!
I watched the debate tonight and if people are still thinking of giving their second vote to any other party, then the vehemence of all three Unionist party leaders against a second referendum suggests to me should the SNP not command a majority in the new parliament, they would use their Unionist majority to take the opportunity of granting Holyrood’s consent to Westminster to apply the repeal the HRA to Scotland, and replace it with a UK Bill of Rights..
Could this scenario be on the cards?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/urgent-action-needed-to-preserve-united-kingdom-thinktank-says
We have not had any debate about what a UK Bill of Rights would mean for Scotland.
Why is that?
Smith is at it again. Labour were means-tested student loans on household income. Students of households of average income couldn’t get a full loan to go to go to University.
The SNP have funded more apprenticeships. College places also get students to Uni HNC/HND to 2nd year of University. Are these students included? Are mature students (20%) include in the figures.
92% of pupils go into apprenticeships or further education.
Those Unionists are bonkers. How can it be undemocratic to have a referendum?
And why dont they want one? if they win it that would be another setback for independence. If they lose it, well, thats the will of the people and its democratic.
As usual the Unionists are not making sense. All they are achieving by going on about a referendum is telling us that they think they will lose it, and democracy is bad.
Going to keep this simple for the resident goon.
Even if the audiencee WAS equally balanced, the “half” (yoons) got to cheer anti indy stuff three times to the pro-indy crowds once.
This created an illusion there were much more people AGAINST a 2nd referendum/independence than there ACTUALLY was.
This was why the independence aspect was dragged out for a ridiculous amount of the programme.
Also to prevent exposure of the lack of substance in the manifesto’s of Larry, Curly and Moe, which do not stand up to any scrutiny.
When will the BBC learn, most Scots do not buy their shite anymore, and yet again, Thursday will hammer home that point.
With such a rigged audience, I would have expected one of you to prove me wrong simply by showing me one example of a distinctly unionist question or point being made by a member of the audience. Again, remember, we can validate and check the footage.
Off the top of my head I pointed to 4 pro-SNP/Independence points and questions being made from audience members.
joe: “Neo-are you at the wind up? Nicola was clearly shocked at the roaring and screaming from the audience. The three unionists all at one point during the programme had a go at Nicola or the SNP. Include Smith that’s 4 v 1.Balanced and fair? You’re taking the pish.”
Nicola being shocked doesn’t mean anything is rigged. When it started I thought ‘oh shit, here we go’ but it balanced out.
The three unionists have every right to have a go at Nicola. And so does Smith. That’s politics. She had a go at them too.
It isn’t a pleasant thing to be pointing out on Wings, the few people that give me the time of day on here are not going to be bringing me prizes for saying it, but it is just a simple fact that about a third of the country are Unionists.
They are entitled to be Unionists (and I think that is a stupid thing to believe in), just as you are all entitled to be wrong here in arguing that the debate was rigged and anything else you want to be wrong about.
We all have the right to be wrong and I’ll defend that right. Freedom of speech and democracy gives all of us that right. Unionists have a right to be wrong in their decision to be Unionists. It doesn’t mean anything is rigged or we should kill them or hate them or ban freedom of speech.
Grow up.
Have to say I thought the debate was a bit boring, and even Twitter was a bit tame.
I’m no Harvie fan at all, but to be fair, I was glad he spoke up properly on the once in a generation shite.
He said it doesn’t mean we crawl away, and its perfectly legitimate to discuss it.
Ruth was very red and sweaty, her aggressive side coming through at getting called out on the shipyard fiasco.
Sarah Smith – that’s time up, cos there’s a risk PFI might get discussed.
Same old.
Lots of indignation on social media at Nicola taking an endorsement from the Scottish Sun.
The fuss is almost entirely about her endorsement of the Sun, not their endorsement of her.
The BBC sank to their usual ‘standards’ with this ‘debate’.
Three quarters of the audience howling Unionists, wildly cheering bull shitter ruth and wee willie wankie..’you’re anti-democratic’…. quoth this intellectual pygmy for chrissakes!
Sarah Smith..daughter of the sainted John Smith with rictus grin presiding over the usual show trial of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP.
This pantomine followed up by another hatchet job by the same SS on the ‘National’ BBC news…surely in breach of purdah…attacking the SNP’s apparent tardiness in getting poor youth into education. Again the same usual suspects attacking the SG. Then ‘toodlethenoo Taylor’ followed on the news’where you are’ claiming the’ hot topic’ was the referendum….cue more shite being thrown.
Truly we live in a one party state media dictatorship. It hasn’t worked so far..so let’s pray that this grotesque distortion of reality continues to be seen for what it is by the Scottish electorate.. vote SNP X 2.
A ton of work today and had to handle over a thousand site hits – this essay grabbing interest – a great example of humanity’s dark side as overlord unable to extinguish hope.
Anybody calling the SNP Nazi-like, or just authoritarian, are having trouble creating a coherent thought rubbing their two IQ points together:
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6M5
Alan of Neilston, first of all, well done for saying the debate was reasonable. It was.
I agree the pro-unionist audience was louder but if you watch (rather than just listen) to the footage they amounted to about a third of the audience. The emptiest barrels make the loudest noise, as demonstrated tonight.
The debate on another referendum is a winner for us. People here should be less sensitive about the issue. I can prove it’s a match winner.
Notice how when asked (by a member of the rigged audience) if politicians had the right to stand in the way of the people if they expressed desire for another indyref, kezia and Ruth and all of them avoided the question and immediately attacked the SNP. But the question didn’t mention the SNP. The question is a winner and they can’t answer it — that’s what we should be focused on.
Hi, Capella. Always enjoy your thoughtful posts.
I have to say I sense Yoon resignation on the doorstep. I have hardly met anyone who admitted to voting Labour, apart from one door-slammer in Burnbank. Strangely, more are willing to admit they are Tories. I suspect this reflects the Establishment push for Bride of Chucky: they know Kezia is toast. Of course, no one on MSM asks Tank-Straddler why she supports austerity and denying thousands of Syrian orphans a safe haven in the UK.
Thomas Muir was an amazing man who suffered immensely for his beliefs. If we had a film industry his biopic would be a box-office sensation, but we don’t, and so we don’t.
For myself, I never got over The Maggie as a boy, with its wonderful shots of Glasgow and the West Coast. Gosh, our country actually figured in a film! Could we be almost like a normal country? And then at the end, we Tommy Kearins says to the millionaire, “Good luck to ye!” like a threat.
Magic.
A country needs to be imagined in film and literature to reflect and consolidate its values.
We’ll be closer to that after Thursday, I think.
Torygraph loved that BBC audience, or “huge applause.” Thursday’s pretty clearly all about Scottish independence for the yoons.
Is it anti democratic to want Scotland to run Scotland and not have our neighbour do it? Toryboy world, red and blue, screams yes.
http://archive.is/tqn0S
Glamaig
As someone pointed out on Twitter , if we hadn’t had another Referendum, we wouldn’t have the Scottish Parliament so
Miss Dugdale , Mr Davidson and Mr Rennie are you still against the people’s right to a referendum ?
Two people tonight emerged with dignity intact Nicola Sturgeon & Patrick Harvie , both at least tried to answer the questions presented .
Sarah Smith was in no way in control of the Rabid tory dog the SSPA should have been called to subdue the (#*~#*^+)
Please let there be a god and lets hope Wullie Rennie elopes with jabba and we never have to suffer their f/n moaning again .
if these two chancers are elected as the result of this bleedn voting system we have been lumbered with by Westminster and surprise surprise we can’t change , as we have found with the Scotland bill we dont matter we dont register on their horizon.
There’s me showing off earlier and getting it all wrong. I was thinking of the Humanist Coefficient. Anyway, the Oliver’s commenting on matters that he is not appropriately qualified to give more than an ill informed opinion on.
@ Neil Oliver
If your Union is so fucking hot, how come the UK’s Gini Coefficient and Relative Income Poverty is worse than the OECD average?
http://www.oecd.org/social/inequality.htm
Neo-“the sound engineer was rigged” obviously not because Nicola could not believe what she was hearing at the loudest part of the programme when she looked amazed after Rennie’s diatribe. The audience WAS rigged.
Don’t pay the britnat bbc licence tax.
Re EBC and second referendum. As I have said many times Davidson, Dugdail and Rennie have been instructed by the ESTABLISHMENTS controllers to hammer on this non existent subject. The EBC have been told to push indiref2 non stop and all of a sudden it’s a major problem for Nicola and less so Patrick.
You can bet all this week the yoons and their broadcaster will pound this non existent problem intl the minds of the voters, to try and detract from SNP overall majority.
Job done SNP F*CKED.
“Wee”, not “we”.
Sausage fingers.
Apologies.
And amazing the director of “The Maggie”, Alexander MacKendrick, produced such a brilliant commentary on the cynicism of modern American society in “Sweet Smell of Success”. And
“Match me, Stanley,” indeed.
The BBC will claim balance in the audience, that would mean that each party got 20% of their own voters
So every time the FM opened her mouth 60% of the audience were against her
Bet the State Broadcaster never thought of that eh DUH!
@ Tinto Chiel
I haven’t seen “The Maggie”. Will search it out.
But I read Hector MacMillan’s “Handful of Rogues: Thomas Muir’s Enemies of the People 12 Oct 2005” which was a wonderful account of the life of this amazing man. If you made a biopic I doubt anyone would believe the fantastic twists and turns his life took.
I recommend it to anyone who is interested in Scottish history and democracy. The lack of an official documentary about him speaks volumes about the oppression of our culture under this colonial regime.
Still won’t make a difference Papadox. That’s what they want you to think hahaha. Fuck em, we know better.
EBC and the Establishment are full of shite we know that. Remain calm, we are winning. Smell the fear.
@Thepnr 11:08pm
I worry to much Thepnr, one of my many crosses. I hope you are rite because this is a very very important piece of the jigsaw. If we can get overall majority in holyrood and destroy the yoons in the council elections I would guess that would be game and set. The yoons would never recover from that. SCOTLAND!
I think I have watched my last debate until we get independence. The same arguments will be repeated until then.
The only note of interest was how sweaty and puce with anger Ruth Davidson looked. She is obviously raging that her nonsense has been rumbled at last. She came across as having barely any control at times.
She is as nasty as the people she represents.
Capella: “The lack of an official documentary about him speaks volumes about the oppression of our culture under this colonial regime.”
Yes, MacMillan is very good but your comment gets to the heart of things. Dundas was a complete
skunk, but has an enormous statue in Embra.
Of course, dolts like MacWhirter go around saying we all loved the Most Wonderful Union in The World until 2014 and that’s only because we were all brain-washed suddenly by The Sturgeonator. He really should do some research, starting with the works of Dr James Young: The Very Bastards of Creation and The Rousing of The Scottish Working Class.
Btw, you can get The Maggie quite cheap as a DVD, about a tenner.
And so to bed.
Dear Nicola and the SNP,
It’s time the for being nice to come to an end when deal with BUM, and the EBC in particular.
We need to see what topics that they wish to discuss, how long they want to spend on each topic, and sections of the audience
will sit in groups as per their affiliation.
The number of seats will be appointed as to what percentage that party received in the last Scottish election, with places for those who abstained or ar undecided, again proportionately.
As for the comments that we have the result of the referendum and the demand that democracy must die in Scotland, can I point
out that the Liberals have not been in a majority anything in Scotland for 100 years, and that the Scots have never given the Tories a majority in anything in over 60 years.
Why don’t Wee Willie Winkie and Ruthie Krankie not listen to the
Scottish electorate who for generations made it plain that they want nothing to do with either of them??
The EBC are a complete and utter disgrace, and must be wound up.
Rancid The Graun also extremely and very “dont even think about another ref silly Scotland region”
Ulrtra yoon Graun likes
“Mocking Sturgeon’s claim that she would only hold a second referendum if there was clear evidence of public support for one, Dugdale went on:
She’s saying, ‘Let’s trust the pollsters’. If we trusted the pollsters, Ed Miliband would be prime minister. This is no way to govern the country.”
To be fair, that was a good bit. Kex should stand uu, if polls hold, sponsored by the Sunday Herald sneaky creeps.
Graun really really does not want another referendum-
“Willie Rennie, the Scottish Lib Dem leader, said Sturgeon’s refusal to rule out a second independence referendum was “anti-democratic”. He said:
Yoonsters go for the Sturgeon accused
“Nicola Sturgeon was accused of breaking her promise to honour the result of the independence referendum and of being “anti-democratic”. The claim that she had broken a promise was made by Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader. She said Sturgeon should not keep open the “wound” caused by the independence referendum in 2014. Davidson went on:”
Its interesting that only voice saying hold on yoonsters, was a women in the audience stating out loud, The Vow’s been spectacularly not honoured. Its clearly SNP policy to not get into it with yoonsters like Ruth but I wish they would.
PAYE devo is not The Vow promised, federal UK, devo-max, Scotland leads UK, sorry starting to lol at just the picture of England toryboy world voting out everything in the Scotland bill. What a democratic night of Scotland leading Westminster that was.
@PAPADOX
YOU HAVE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME AND I REMEMBER WHEN YOU TYPED LIKE THIS. DO NOT WORRY! WE HAVE A CHANCE AND WE WILL TAKE IT.
Everything you have stood for in all your years fighting for Independence is now coming to fruition, no need to let the Yoons worry us in the last four days. I may seem over confident for many but believe me that is how I feel.
IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND DORTHY THAT HAVE DONE IT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME
Let them worry LOL. They are due it.
When will you all learn that the B.B.C. Television (Scotland??) is a UNIONIST “PSYCOLOGICAL PREDICTIONAL PROGRAMMING METHOD” designed to influence Public Opinion here in Scotland. The Audience tonight was “Well Rigged” to influence any Scottish “Potential’ Voters in this Election next Thursday to think that the “Union” with ENGLAND ( see Robert Peffers for his excellent accounts of true Scottish History ) is ,above all ,to ensure a future Scotland, is well served within the “Protection “of the U.K./England/Britain!! The Establishment ie “The City London ” are all playing a Game and they mean business??
When these clowns shout about “respecting the result” regarding indyref, I just want someone to reply…”Why should we, you lot did not even respect the feckin question !!
If, as Prof Curtice rightly points out that in Scotland party politics is no longer ‘business as usual’ and that the electorate is split along constitutional lines, then our audiences on our political debates ‘should’ be reflecting this ‘reality’.
The msm have acknowledged this as a fact and yet both BBC and STV are still recruiting audience participant’s along ‘party’ lines.
The point we (Independence) are really making is that the audiences on these programmes do not reflect the Independence voting half of the Scottish electorate, they therefore give a ‘false’ impression of the true state of affairs in Scotland.
That is at the heart of the bias that we quite rightly should be pointing out in our broadcast media in Scotland.
They should be recruiting on a Yes, No, Don’t Know basis. May as well as that is the only game in town. So They Keep Telling Us.
Aye Thepnr it can get a bit disheartining watching wave after wave of Britnat yoon lunacy but then thats their plan always has been ,its all they have it comes down to one question for them can they put us back in the box and return to the status quo.
They will do everything they can to get that result but then we already know that and that is where their plan backfires.
Yoons are used to being believed and have got away with telling lies making up pish policies and doing very little work and now that they actually need to act like politicians they are found wanting
I have said for years selling everything public into private hands was just because tories are lazy bastards,they dont want to govern they want to do as little as possible and delegate the work on to others,win win for them more time to shoot small animals and drink tax payers money in the bars while setting up a new offshore company so they dont have to give any money to those dreadful peasants and discussing who`s country to fuck up next.
And the worst of it they will think they deserve a pay rise for it.
I know others referred to the SH as a Kinnoch moment i have to disagree strongly it wasnt the we are going to win that cost him, it was little England racism ,what you think they would let a Welshman run the UK aye right and they just loved clunking fist broon or that Scottish git as he became fondly known at one point they even tried to shove Blair on us because his granny was half Scottish or some pish like that
Oh and Ruthie hate to burst your bubble hen but ive got more chance of running the tory party than you have and im half Irish and a republican ,Maggie wasnt Scottish Ruth cest la vie tough shit.
Does anyone have a link to a potted version of the debate, if such a thing exists?
@ Tinto Chiel
will do (get the Maggie) and check out the Dr James Young book. So much to read so little time!
nite nite
https://caltonjock.com/2016/05/01/unmasked-thetory-lord-what-won-the-referendum-for-westminster-we-didnt-stand-a-chance/
Conservatives haven’t won an election in how many years?
Why don’t they respect the result of the Scottish people and stop trying, Scotland has said NO to Conservatives
Is it just me or is that not the same thing
@ Ian Brotherhood A wee potted sneer at what went on
It came to the Indy ref bit and Ruthie lost the plot and started shouting at the FM, Willie Rennie accused the FM of being undemocratic, Chairman Harvie went for the “I’m a reasonable nice guy” applause and Kezia respected no one and sort of looked bewildered most of the time, with a hint of suppressed tears
The end…..Thank God
@ Neil Oliver
Please keep them coming, I’ve been needing a new vehicle.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/zspttfr/revision
@Papadox
Read all your post BIG or small. Didn’t want anyone getting the wrong idea there. I know my place when it comes to fighting for Independence.
Kudos.
Hard work this politics stuff – still it’s paying off though, I’m looking forward to living in a modern European democracy.
joe: “The audience WAS rigged.”
If the audience was rigged, how come every question asked was pro-independence or pro-SNP? If I am wrong in this, point to one that was pro-Unionist.
To be completely scientific, a question was asked by a Doctor which was neutral (I didn’t get his point but it certainly wasn’t obviously pro-Unionist and on Health the SNP are untouchable).
Just because the unionist morons were louder it doesn’t follow that the debate or audience was rigged.
Looking at some of the insults I have been on the end of tonight, the irony of being lynched by a crowd that is enraged by freedom of speech issues is so absurd that I can only laugh at you.
Back to my question: if it was rigged you need to show evidence, and the evidence suggests if anything it was rigged in the SNP’s favour. Every point and question made by the crowd tonight was favourable to the SNP with the exception of one which was neutral.
Prove me wrong.
Thanks Wingers! Having recorded tonight’s debate as
Mrs Returnofthemac refuses to watch Ruthie,Kez and wee Willie, I can now delete as it appears that it is more of the same pish served up by the British Biased Corporation.
So on we go to Thursday. Tick Tock.
Please please SNPx2
@Dr Jim –
Hear, hear.
As and when we get independence, we sort out who’s to the left or right of this, that or whatever else. Until we’re free of WM rule, no such debate is even possible.
Neo you said you want to be an apolitical Yeser.
Anyhoo, as a neocon, what’s the neocon take on UKOK spectacular reneging UKOK style on their vote NO for Clyde ship building promises, frigate factory, destroyer building for decades and UKOK decades shyste?
Is Ruthie babes right to just go on full UKOK thug mode and shout down anyone that dares to suggest its just one more giant tory fraud on Scottish democracy neocon?
As a neocon Neocon, your input here should be a right hoot, sorry a right UKOK hoot.
I don’t entirely buy into the electorate in Scotland is split along constitutional lines narrative of Curtice. What happened to the 500,000 or so Yoons that couldn’t be arsed voting in their own Yoon GE last year then? You would have thought that they would have turned out in their joy at the Union being saved but no!
Now we have all those more Nationalistic Indy in theory 16 and 17 year olds voting in this election and something they were denied last year and will be denied in the EU Referendum.
I will stick my neck out and say if the SNP doesn’t take at least 55% plus of the constituency vote and win 70 constituency seats then the whole thing is fraudulent.
@Angra Mainyu
“Prove me wrong.” Can’t be bothered, you sad man.
Who do you think really cares on here? You will still be sad tomorrow.
Sounds like I missed nothing. It has been a pretty awful day with the dark forces working doubletime to lull the SNP voters into thinking the election is won, to enrage everyone else by suggesting Nicola thinks its in the bag and the BBC doing what they do best.
I read Neil Oliver’s polemic earlier. Neil went to Dumfries Academy some years before I was there but he seems to have learnt fuck all about history, the English language or how to form cogent thoughts and express them. Whit a fanny.
Do you think all this rage stems from Bonnie Prince Bob and his masterpiece- Saviour of the Union?
youtube.com/watch?v=afRE3RwLwaE
@ScottishPsyche says:
The only note of interest was how sweaty and puce with anger Ruth Davidson looked. She is obviously raging that her nonsense has been rumbled at last. She came across as having barely any control at times.
She is as nasty as the people she represents.
—-
Yeah, She holds it together for the most part, but sometimes it slips out. A real angry and nasty side to her. It’s not an attractive quality.
There is a fine line between coming across as strong and confident and as overly aggressive. I notice one of her tactics in these debates is to try and drown out the key point in her opponent’s argument.
@heedtracker –
You are being uncharacteristically harsh on NCN.
FFS, the dude’s only trying to do his job eh?
2nd time lucky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afRE3RwLwaE
Never watched it as I expected the BBC to organise the event and the audience(and hence the questions) but I also expected Sturgeon to put up an excellent case for the SG record.
Blood pressure normal. I commend you all. 🙂
Sturgeon accuses Unionists of seeking to thwart democratic wishes of Scots
https://archive.is/DRnpu
Leaders’ TV debate: Davidson accused of telling ‘porky’ over Clyde jobs
https://archive.is/z1dUa
SNP x 2
Kez has never reached out to Yes voters because it is not the British Labour policy to do so. Never has been and never will be.
Slab have forgotten already that we remember them scuttling the ’79 referendum which brought down their own government. We have not forgotten the fire sale of Scots territory in ’99 and we will never forget them selling their souls to keep us tied to an unjust and un-democratic servitude of rule by our neighbouring country.
Labour has a place to play in a future Scotland but not in their present form, as is the conservative party and the democrats. These parties must truly be Scottish Parties to represent this country and fight for the sovereign right of the people of this country.
None of us can ever deny their place in an independent Scotland because they will represent the wishes of some of our fellow countrymen/women/people/I don’t know the correct PC terminology, but you get my gist.
Lately, I have wondered what would happen if Labour/Conservative & Democratic supporter of an independent mind, did form political Scottish Parties and argue the case of independence from their own point of view.
We know they exist, so why not come out and really put forth their views?
That’s it Tam Neil Oliver in his glory.
Do not miss this, best piss take ever. Let’s laugh loud!
Heedtracker, first of all, Ruth is a diabolical rancid malevolent bastard. She lost the plot tonight and I actually think her behaviour is threatening and tantamount to bullying. It’s certainly brow-beating.
My argument was that the Independence movement should be apolitical in terms of the age old politics of left and right. So far it seems to appeal mostly to left-leaning people and there’s a reason for that. If it had been apolitical and less left leaning in 2014, it’s probable that we would be independent now and arguing earnestly as all normal countries do about things like tax and spending.
The clyde ship building issue is complex. This is Britain’s military industrial complex we are discussing. Most advanced countries use military spending to cloak spending on high technology and support certain sectors in industry and engineering, and Britain is no different really.
The reason for the delays are obviously down to the continuing demand up here for another referendum. We could easily construe that as some sort of punishment or threat — it looks like there’s a sub-plot along the lines of ‘give up the indy stuff and we will give you jobs’. It’s shameful and will backfire.
There’s nothing in any of that which is at odds with my political standpoint. Incidentally, I used to be on the radical left and I know it’s all a pile of insincere childish crap. There are a few genuine people on the left and I get on well with and admire them — Tommy Sheridan is one (he went to jail and confronted bailiffs for his views, he walked the walk, and nobody could doubt his sincerity or conviction).
But if we learned anything through all those years of Labour domination up here, it’s that the left is full of careerist fake bastards who generally undermine any possibility of addressing problems never mind fixing them. The whole public sector is infested with these charlatans, pretending they care for the poor etc. when the truth is their livelihoods depend on keeping people and society broken.
Any solution to poverty, crime, and unemployment — not to mention our particular problem of securing our independence — that involves the left will be sabotaged by the left. The history of the left going back to Ramsay MacDonald with his national government is the history of shafting ordinary people, not defending them. That’s what they do.
@NeoconNat
Fuck off, your boring the tits off me now ya dick.
See I got three sweary words in a row there. Beat that ya cunt!
Fran, you make some good points.
Talking about independence supporters who are in other parties you ask “We know they exist, so why not come out and really put forth their views?”
Try reading the sort of stuff Thepnr addresses to me. It’s actually just a sort of thuggery. Plenty of others too. Needless to say, they are all what I would call radical left and — surprise, surprise — here they are screwing up our chances of any sort of rapprochement that could lead to increased support for independence.
Both the aristocracy and the ‘socialist’ need a rigid class system in order to exist. The constant evolution of society, which is a conscious organism, challenges this paradigm.
Would you allow a dying animal to suffer? Let’s give the British Establishment both barrels on Thursday.
Keep it up, Thepnr, I bet you can achieve 4 swear words in a sentence.
lol @ beat that ya c***
And they accuse me of being a troll and bringing the tone of this place down — go figure.
Has to be sensibledave. No doubt about it. How sad is that.
The sound of wind and pish…signifying me me me me me…endlessly.
Doesn’t like ‘profanities’ remember? Can’t bring himself to say the words.
Hahahahahahahahahah…ad infinitum.
k1, there are two things you should concern yourself with: 1) the substance of your views, and 2) the substance of other people’s views. Everything beyond those two things is most likely junk.
The record of what has been said tonight is there for all to see. I’m pretty sure that nobody will have read anything that I typed and decided not to vote SNP on Thursday. Not sure everyone could say the same.
@NeoconNat
You are so ignorant that you don’t every appreciate that with every post you make you bring the tone of “this place” down.
This place is Wings Over Scotland, you know a place where supporters of Independence come together to share thoughts and ideas. Sweary words are no big deal on this site and if your offended would be happy to see you leave.
That was the point, but your too thick. I guess your still gonna hang around like a bad smell at least until election day?
Don’t sweat, you’ve done your job. Everybody ignores you or despises you. Good work. Are you happy?
Bet you are, you sad bastard. LOL
Oh Do Fuck Off Sensibledave. You desperate attention seeking wee laddie.
Hahahahahahaha….
Ian B @ 12:20
Aye Ian, we can sort out all the minutae when we get Independence, all this raging about what might happen is mince (Hansard approved).
This election should be about how well the various parties have performed in the recent short term and how they should be expected to perform in future based on past form.
Speculation about the next referendum is the prize domain of the winners of the last referendum, don’t they realise they won and would do better to keep quiet. Maybe they are embarrassed by the lies and dirty tricks they used to gain that ‘victory’. They can’t trot out the same rubbish next time round, WBB2 has seen to that!
I’ve been doing doors since the start of November last year and only once been asked about a second referendum. That was last Tuesday evening and the context was “how soon wil we be able to have another one?”
Compared to last year this has been a very apathetic campaign, not from want of effort from our side, but it has been difficult to get folk stirred on the doorstep. There’s a general feeling that it’s a foregone conclusion – the Get Out The Vote operation on Thursday will be an important exercise. Hopefully the opposition parties will suffer from the general acceptance that the SNP will win comfortably and record loww turnout numbers but the overall turnout needs to be at a reasonable level to give the expected victory legitimacy.
Hey?
Remember this?
‘Lastly, do you really think anybody is going to be daft enough to A) read this junk, and B) let it influence their vote? Seriously? I know a lot of people visit Wings but I find it hard to believe they come to read the comments.’
And now this?
‘The record of what has been said tonight is there for all to see. I’m pretty sure that nobody will have read anything that I typed and decided not to vote SNP on Thursday. Not sure everyone could say the same.’
Full of shit Sensibledave.
Hahahahahaha….etc etc
@NeoconNat
Stick your records up your arse. Bet you have a list 🙂 🙂
Third time lucky. “Humanistic coefficient”. Should have checked before my first post. 😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_coefficient
K1, all so simple isn’t it… you caught me out. Do you have a file on me or a spreadsheet or something?
Just one problem. Both quotes are in response to the accusation, repeatedly directed at me, that I might put people off voting SNP.
So, I repeat, nobody was likely to be put off voting SNP by anything I said tonight. The stuff you and Thepnr have contributed, on the other hand, is of the standard you will hear outside any kebab shop in Glasgow late on a Saturday night.
Nobody here could provide one example of any audience member at the debate asking a question or making point that was anti-SNP. Not one.
Sorry to let the facts get in the way of another self-pitying hate-fest.
Your not getting off scot free yet Mr Angra Mainyu!
Why are you here under a different name? You are a disruption and I want shot of you, get it?
Thepnr, with the following question I am assuming you have more than 2 brain cells so don’t accuse me of dismissing you as a thicko;
Q) Do you think I am more likely to go away because you want “shot” of me or less likely?
@ Neoconnotanat
Of course I make good points, thanks for the patronisation but you are deflecting from the point that I have made tonight.
I read Thenpr posts everyday, so there is no need for you to deflect my comment onto him.
My comment is for the centre to right of the political spectrum that wishes independence. You clam this position, so my question would have included yourself. I am still waiting on an answer. Will the conservatives in Scotland form a true Scottish Conservative Party to fight for our total sovereignty?
@NeoConNat
Couldn’t care less, what you think, but for all our sakes just go.
@Fran
I don’t want to come across as patronising either but well said.
@ Neo
I watched the debate tonight and pondered on what you have said, which leads me to these two questions.
1) Do you believe Ruth Davidson represents Scottish or British Conservatism?
2) Do you believe Wullie Rennie represents Scottish or British Liberal/Democratises?
3) No point in asking about Kezia, we all know.
Fran, I wasn’t being patronising. You should take my response from earlier as a sincere response. I’ll rephrase it without reference to any moron in particular.
People who are Conservative-minded are not very likely to find the idea of sharing any sort of platform with abusive radical leftists very appealing, even if they believe in independence.
This isn’t some new concoction that I came up with tonight; I’ve been arguing for some time that the Independence movement was perceived to be too closely associated with the radical left and that I think it would be beneficial for it to re-orientate towards an apolitical position.
I delivered a reasonable study of voting behaviour across 4 income groups and it confirmed that voting in the referendum was driven to a large extent by class and all earnings groups except the very bottom voted No in the majority.
I actually don’t think there’s anything remotely controversial about that or anything else I have said on the subject and I stand by the argument that the radical left, and perceptions of its role in the referendum, probably cost us our independence.
Folks,
Please stop feeding the troll, a huge chunk of this thread has been wasted on personal feuds. Please calm your jets and concentrate on the matter in hand – getting a pro Indy majority on Thursday.
@Angra Mainyu
“Prove me wrong.”
Can’t be bothered, you sad man.
Who do you think really cares on here? You will still be sad tomorrow. Got it yet?
Trolls should not be unchallenged. They have no place here, I tried my best to get rid of him tonight. The man is going nowhere so I absolutely agree we ignore.
Sorry to all that I may have pissed off apart from the troll.
Fran, I despise Ruth. I don’t think she represents any sort of conservatism. Her primary role in Scottish politics is to thwart the independence movement — if doing that required that she pledge allegiance to Stalinism, she would do it. Same for the others.
Keeping Scotland a defacto colony is of the utmost importance to the British State who know that doing so is a huge earner. Oil prices will soon rise and they’ll be bleeding us again for another 40 years. It’s huge for them, probably the biggest threat they face to their standing in the world.
Our only chance of getting independence will hinge on our ability to heal wounds here and face the British State with a more unified voice. That looks unlikely right now but could change. If we are divided and aren’t able to resolve petty differences, we don’t deserve independence.
Every colony in the history of the world harboured a society that was divided. There’s a reason for divisions like that; they serve an important purpose. The independence movement doesn’t need to let them get in the way.
P S
SNP x 2
P P S
Signing off for the night, six episodes of Red Dwarf to catch up with.
@ Thenpr
I take no offence by those who like yourself genuinely wish the future of this country to be dictated by the people of this country.
I am always open to others views and respect them as long as they are honest about their believes.
I maybe slightly more on the right politically than yourself and many others on this site but one thing that unites us all is the most important and that is the dissolution of the Treaty of Union.
I have never been comfortable with the words independence and separation as they imply we are a small radical body (rebels) wishing something that is not our right or within our justified claim. We are basically an equal partner wishing to dissolve a merger that did not work out to the mutual advantage as described within the original contract. (Which should never have been signed in the first place)
Over the past three hundred years, this contract has been broken by one signatory more than once and is now in my opinion null and void.
Ready to gloat yet Angra Mainyu?
If memory serves, Scotland experiences lower rates of multiple deprivation than England. As such, relative poverty is less of a problem here and there is less motivation or popular support for change. Most folk in Scotland are just comfortable enough to get by and that is enough for most. Perhaps this is a consequence of Scotland’s broader and more robust economic base? Perhaps Whitehall have just had 300 hundred year in which to perfect their extraction rates? Whatever.
I certainly don’t think the working man was put in fear by the ‘red menace’ of Scottish socialists, though I could be wrong. I suspect reluctance to vote Yes had something to do with the concerted state propaganda and UKOK Project Fearing.
Historically, Scotland is culturaly presbyterian (a form of church government, which is governed by representative assemblies of elders). England is not.
CameronB, “I certainly don’t think the working man was put in fear by the ‘red menace’ of Scottish socialists, though I could be wrong.”
The data indicates clearly that amongst low, medium, and high earners, the majority voted No. The only earners group that voted yes was the “bottom” category.
It is a known fact that class (or earnings) is one of the biggest determinants of voting behaviour. Actually it’s the biggest, with the clearest most regular correlation of all in terms of explaining voting behaviour. It is grounded in rational choice model too which is hard to argue with.
Nobody is arguing that the independence movement should move to the right and embrace Thatcherism. But for the sake of achieving independence it should move towards a less class oriented or more apolitical position.
I almost forgot the British nationalism that has always been at the heart of British Labour. How’s a Scottish socialist supposed to jump, when his party of choice are a bunch of British imperialists controlled from London but who are sold as Scottish and autonomous to avoid confusion?
I’m sure there will be less conflicted emotions among Labour’s tradition victims next indyref.
@ neo
The moron bit probably didn’t gell well with the healing wounds!
Yes, a few of the commentaries on this site are more left leaning than you may wish, which leads to the next conclusion. Why do you waste precious time here debating with those of a polar political persuasion, when you could have a blog dedicated to those who are uncomfortable with the left but still believe in self-determination of this country?
Maybe I am the moron because I hope/envisage a Scotland where ideas clash and combine to forge a strong community. A community where success is not “punished”, where the disadvantaged are not left behind or to fend for themselves, where we stand as one, where greed and non-contribution are abhorred.
That Scotland will never be delivered in my life time but I can be part of those who give foundation to it. I can be part of the generation who give our descendants the tools and scope to make their lives and their children’s lives better. In a country they can call their own where they have the power and the authority to control what is best for them.
Our petty disagreements are dust in the wind compared to the responsibilities we have to future generations. Our responsibilities to them is to give them the controls to dictate their own future, not to keep it reserved with a state that couldn’t care less if they existed or not.
To any unionist that may read this, don’t be a puppet for those who pretend to give you a little control over your fellow countrymen for a Scooby snack. Stand with us for a country when on your death bed you can put hand on heart and say my children have a future, my country has a future and I played my part in giving them that opportunity.
@ neo
“The data indicates clearly that amongst low, medium, and high earners, the majority voted No. The only earners group that voted yes was the “bottom” category.”
Data shows that 75% of under 55yr old Scots born, voted Yes.
I am not “bottom” category. I am Scots born and under 55yrs. Other data has shown obscure findings about linage and religious orientation.
Just to muddle the data and prove how off it is, I’m descendant from Scots/Irish/Spanish/Protestant/Catholic. My family have served in the British forces Iraq/Falklands/Korea/WW11/WW1/Crimea/Egypt&Middle East. Early 1800s are as far back as I can trace.
As far as I can make out, my brothers and sisters voted no but I voted Yes.
What a smarmy bastard NeoconNat appears to be. Bet people move to the other end of the bar when he’s around.
Advice to all:
DON’T BITE.
Sandy
to be honest he bite, he must be off to bed now anyway
Wish I could get to sleep, I keep on finding errors in my posts. ;(
“If memory serves, Scotland experiences lower rates of multiple deprivation than England. As such, relative poverty is less of a problem here and SO there is PERHAPS less motivation or popular support for change.”
Sorry for trying to be accurate with my whataboutery. 😉
Superb comment @4.15am btw Fran.
@ CameronB Brodie
I always seem to go on a rant after and ruin it !
Thanks for the comment, it doesn’t come natural posting thoughts.
CameronB Brodie says:
2 May, 2016 at 3:37 am
I almost forgot the British nationalism that has always been at the heart of British Labour. How’s a Scottish socialist supposed to jump, when his party of choice are a bunch of British imperialists controlled from London but who are sold as Scottish and autonomous to avoid confusion?
Maybe the sad reality is that Labour have survived for the past 100yrs is that it didn’t stick to its principles. The true labourites seemed to be always shot down and made to look like the “enemy” of Britain. They brought down their own government in’79 because their leader wanted devolution in Scotland.
Even now, its still hard to comprehend what they did. The party started in Scotland for the people turns its back on the people at the very point of delivery of its founding promise. This has been whitewashed for the past 37yrs.
I think what makes us even more angry is the fact a lot in this country are now catching up with the others in seeing through Labours finger pointing and saying “they did it”, to deflect the blame. This applies not only to ’79 but through the years when they were in power with majorities and what did they really do with it? Nothing!! Some scrapes to keep the majority distracted for a while and system carries on regardless.
The BBC is biased. The BBC is committed to preserving the Union. The BBC can, will, and has distorted the political agenda in Scotland to promote the anti-independence narrative while disrupting progressive consideration and constructive discussion of the positive case for Independence.
The pro-union media has a virtual monopoly on what is broadcast in our community. It isn’t any written protocol about balance which holds them in check. It isn’t any respect for fairness which stays their hand. It is simply fundamental to their objective that they appear credible.
To function successfully as an instrument of propaganda, and effective countermeasure against Scottish Nationalism, the BBC requires to maintain the illusion of integrity and credibility simply to sell their nonsense to the unwitting or unwary observer.
Propaganda is a method of enchantment, specifically engineered to influence and change the way people think. It requires guile, subtlety and sophistication to worm its way passed our mental defences and stimulate some aspects of our thought processes while subdueing others. It’s an act of trespass inside our heads.
Once you are alert to the deception process, the spell is easily recognised, but a dangerous percentage of our people still remain entranced by this enchantment, and are still susceptible to its influence. It is powerful stuff.
This situation bears all the hallmarks of the “phoney war” period between the SNP and the BBC. Both seek to best position themselves and make ready for the onset of hostilities yet to come, but for now, fear to provoke the outbreak of unrestrained conflict.
I suspect a growing number of us are ready to embrace open warfare with the BBC, but for now, patience pays the higher dividend and recruits more people to our way of thinking…. for now.
I take comfort that hostile propaganda cannot evolve into anything wholesome and constructive, but I worry about what fills the void when time is finally called on our resident propagandists. Are we making ready for this when it happens? More importantly, is the SNP? Do we have contingencies in hand? Or are we just bluffing a weak hand? Do we tolerate the BBC because there is nothing but the BBC? If so, that will be our failing, not the BBC’s.
Last night’s debate mmm, well it certainly showed Ruth Davidson in her true light, that cubby cheeky grin that she presents to the media was clearly a deception. Kezia did look out of her depth and was totally nailed by Nicola regarding her NHS figures.
Patrick Harvie had some interesting answers and ideas but did not have anyone actually attack him on any of the questions so frankly had quite an easy time. Willie had a couple of good answers at the start but there after degenerated back into the grinning idiot we’re used to.
As for the presenter the less said the better, (note: how does someone hold their face in one shape all the time), as for the audience their did appear to be an excessive noise of clapping whenever a unionist panellist finished speaking, was someone switching an extra mic on at the right time.
Nicola is our First Minster for a very good reason, she outshone the rest of the panellist’s by quite a margin. Nicola comes across as professional, knowledgeable and very trustworthy. It was a good performance by her even with the continuous attacks by the unionist muppets, which was nothing new.
And that is why I will be voting SNP X 2.
8.08am BBC sofa..
Quick mention of Scottish Leaders Debate..saying independence dominated.
Host mentioned Nicola’s ‘not stand in way of democracy ‘ stance.
Then actual video of Ruth’s big line, followed by lots of people clapping, and a wee bit extra volume.
Gives me the creeps.
Are all BBC production staff, including presenters given a ‘liars bonus’ or is just Huw Edwards?
@Paula Rose says: 2 May, 2016 at 12:13 am:
“Hard work this politics stuff – still it’s paying off though, I’m looking forward to living in a modern European democracy.”
Count your blessings, lovely lady, I’m in such troubles just now that I’m only looking forward to dying in a modern European democracy.
I might just make it until after the election. I am fighting my ISP, HP and Microsoft just to be able to retain my presence on the internet.
This gang of incompetents don’t recognise me as who I am anymore. They are resisting all attempt to sort things out.
I bought a new HP laptop. Yesterday Microsoft informed me my older machine is using an illegal copy of Windows Vista but the unregistered machine is the new Laptop and I can’t register it as neither Microsoft, BT or HP now believe I am who I say I am.
Strangely enough BT still recognise the bank standing order from me that pays the line rental and broadband account. Yet they treat me as someone attempting to take over my own broadband account. Getting them all working together seems not an option.
All I have now is an email account and access to the net but none of my software or old accounts are recognised by anyone including my own computers. That means, for example, my machines receive email but I cannot access the account it arrives at.
It is getting a bit boring, every time I come on here to read comments late at night, to see some clown (and I use the term advisedly) or other, in an endless nonsense argument with the semi permanent ‘neo’ troll.
Please stop responding to him, FFS. You may think you have an oh so clever, clever, witty response etc.. but honestly, to everybody else it is just extremely boring. It makes you look STUPID. Here’s the thing with such online arguments, YOU will never ‘win’. The troll wants arguments and dissent, and there is no end to it, no matter how you respond.
Like a noisy attention seeking child, just talk over him, and around him.
If you don’t respond, a troll has NO weapon. Trolls rely on people responding, in order to divert threads and discussions.
Please, please, please, stop replying to the troll. Just ignore him, and he will go away.
Robert,
I wish you a swift transition, through all the troubles you mention.
You have my, and I’m sure thousands of other’s respect and best wishes.
Other Robert..
Sorry, I too was guilty of cheapening the threads by snatching at bait.
But he’s reeeeeaally annnnnnnoyyying.
@ Davy
Just seemed to be more unionists. The same ones that clapped Nicola clapped Patrick. When the camera moved back, it went in a line from rear left to front right on a diagonal.
Ruthie seemed to snarl her way through gripping the stand as if she wanted to snap it in two.
Wullie had his clowns grin on and Kez was caught in the head lights waiting to be run over.
O/T links
http://indyref2.scot/ask-the-people
On the site there is also a piece by Peter A Bell on the Scottish cringe personified, well worth reading
http://www.scotlandineurope.eu/wee_bleu_book
From a couple of days ago
Independence-is-inevitable-but-we-need-a-media-that-is-up-to-scratch/
http://archive.is/t2C8K
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/blog/2016/05/01/could-the-conservative-election-expenses-scandal-bring-down-the-government
@ Capella says:
1 May, 2016 at 11:52 pm
My grandfather is in The Maggie… but it’s a crowd scene on the suspension bridge and you can’t see which one he is. He was crossing it and the film makers asked everyone to shout at the boat.
It made my first visit to Islay a bit strange because it felt like I’d been there before. They used a few different towns on the island.
The theme tune is fairly easy to play on a diatonic harmonica.
Mr Peffers
Good to see you back, hope your keeping well.
GMS : FGS!
Three young people selected for a wee summary of ‘don’t knows’ are not enthused with the election, can’t be bothered to find out but two have heard of Gary tank commander.
No body’s been to their door or tried to convince them of anything!
Aye right…good old Auntie!
Aye please stop playing tennis, it takes two and if nobody volunteers the other person might take up another sport.
SNP x 2
O/T links
TTIPleaks: confidential TTIP papers unveil US position
Leaked text shows attempts to undermine EU environment and health protection laws
http://www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/en/News/2016/TTIPleaks-confidential-TTIP-papers-unveil-US-position/
Destitute Britain: UK Has Poorest People in Western Europe, Study Claims
http://archive.is/O5eun
Secretary of state psni and more to be sued for state cover up linked to Kincora
http://archive.is/qS6x9
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/police-scandals-and-cop-culture/
John Humphries on R4 this morning interviewed Nicola. It must be his turn. Nicola put up a good fight on correcting all his “misspeaking”. She had to raise her voice though – with the greatest respect John you are talking mince.
Around 8.10 this morning for those who want to hear Nicola taking the gloves off ever so politely!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b078wxzb
Ruthie was surprisingly grumpy last night. She may have thrown Kezia a life line despite Kezia herself being well out of the running in the debate.
Any Labour voter contemplating crossing to the Tory unionist side might well have second thoughts after seeing the Tory fangs bared at last.
Curious as to why the BBC chose the ‘historic’ surroundings of Hopetoun House to host the final leaders debate?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hope,_1st_Earl_of_Hopetoun
Mr Peffers , I do hope it is only your computer and internet provider that are poorly , not you .
Having read all the comments on the “debate” I may have to take a peak to see the purple faced , buffalo rider losing her cool.
I normally avoid watching her since I see the diversionary tactic of schoolgirl guffawing at rivals ( for no apparent reason) most irritating to any adult thinker.
I would like to see and hear the SNP truly slap down interviewers , accusing them of getting their information from the DM,DR,Scotsman, Herald ,P&Jetc. and not from the source.
I really want gloces off and belt them on the chin stuff – in the nicest possible way!
BBC at it again this morning on their radio show call in.
Dr Scott gets straight through for PPB (no mention of Labour apparatchik status).
Andrew Tickell open goal to call him out … totally fluffs it and doesn’t ask about the good Dr’s loyalties.
BBC dont give a shit and rubbing our noses in it..
If anyone gets through call this geezer out !!
Re resident bridge-dweller. Another wee clue (as if any were needed), who uses em dashes on a bloody comments page, other than a professional writer?
Dr Scott Arthur resuming his BBC interviewers job on Call Kaye this morning.
Andrew Tickell identified as SNP supporter but Scott Arthur not identified as Labour MEMBER AND activist which would put his remarks in context.
Caught bang to rights.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1853535724873858&set=o.121361277974204&type=3&theater
Interesting debate about who voted for what at the referendum. However let me add this to the mix. The Westminster elections surely indicate that many people who voted NO had trust enough in the SNP to form a Government for Scotland.
This must have included people from all sections of society,whether low paid ,middle class whatever.
The SNP have to make that final connection that indicates they have planned for and are prepared for independence,in terms of answering all the questions re currency etc,that caused a stumbling block last time.
The public clearly trust the SNP to govern. The only question to be answered is can they be assured that they could govern an independent Scotland successfully. I believe they could,but others need convincing.
Call Kaye –
Yoonfest, Yoonfest, Yeoonfest !!!!!!!
(be warned)
Please may I say to Robert Peffers that we too had a lot of trouble with our new HP laptop and the New Windows 10 operating system unfortunately not in the same league as your good self and I do hope someone can help you. Ours was a conflict with our Norton anti spyware and Windows Defernder which we finally resolved/
On the subject of the BBC, I think they are scratching around looking for stuff to please their masters, it is scarce on the ground so back to using the rubbish that has been trotted out before. Reminds me of the information that the British used from Iraqui opposition groups which proved s reliable.
Oops! Even George Orwell got it wrong!
(See last quotation): http://wp.me/p4fd9j-iY
@Fran says: 2 May, 2016 at 8:45 am:
“Mr Peffers”
You had me looking for my Dad there, Fran. It’s Bob or even Auld Bob.
“Good to see you back, hope your keeping well.”
I’ve never actually been away, Fran, I’ve just been up to my ears in trouble. My gas boiler packed in and I only got two days use out of my, (mostly for show), flame effect gas fire before it too went AWOL.
Both are quite old but have been very reliable. Anyway, I still have to keep a carer on call for such emergencies as I cannot follow conversations over phones.
To cut a long story short, I had ended up with what I thought was a foreign student who was set up for me by the last foreign student I used. I then discovered he was attempting to scam me by getting his friends in as supposed tradespeople to do such things as repairs and maintenance.
Now that I have a little more mobility I was able to check up on these, “Trades people”. The scam was to get them to do DIY and charge me for professional work. As it was gas I asked the person called in to produce their certificate to work on gas appliances.
He said he would bring it the following morning and I have not seen him, or the erstwhile carer, since. What’s more I found a couple of programs on my desktop that I had not installed. One was, “Take Ownership”, and the other was, “Unlocker”. I’m not daft enough to have such things as passwords or accounts details on my computers.
Turns out they had been gaining access to my programs, (and have even messed up the operating system). It is taking ages, and much frustration, attempting to sort out my computer access.
Not to mention any semblance of normal life as I have to depend upon computer access as I cannot follow conversation over phones and I often cannot manage to venture from the house for such things as shopping.
I’ll get there eventually – if I survive long enough.
Robert Louis says:
2 May, 2016 at 8:30 am
It is getting a bit boring, every time I come on here to read comments late at night, to see some clown (and I use the term advisedly) or other, in an endless nonsense argument with the semi permanent ‘neo’ troll.
Please accept my apologies for boring you last night, I didn’t mean to be a “stupid clown”.
I didn’t ask you to follow my interactions with neo. If your not interested then skim over like I do at times and probably many others do.
By the way, maybe what I write is not for a trolls benefit but for others and maybe its the only chance I get to sound off.
Trolls will always come here, that’s just a fact of life now and sometimes some of us will want to stand our ground against them.
Robert, when you have your own blog, I promise I wont come and bore you there.
Wow Kaye, with some Monday-morning Hothersall you are really spoiling us…
Cheating and corruption is all the Yoons have left. Can they get any lower.
https://twitter.com/seanski87/status/727036642930909184
Whenever you realise that a troll has latched onto Wings, the best thing to do is skip over their comments without reading them. That way you won’t be tempted to answer them. I don’t know what the fuss is over the latest one, for the simple reason that I have never read the comments it has posted.
Kaye’s still got time to squeeze in demented ‘Ian from Edinburgh’…’see these people, SNP, I’ll tell you this, see that Nicola Sturgeon, I’m telling you, and I’m just saying it, these people…’ etc.
Capella says:
“John Humphries on R4 this morning interviewed Nicola. …. Around 8.10 this morning for those who want to hear Nicola taking the gloves off ever so politely!”
Indeed. She did well, despite all the usual misinformed badgering.
This obsession with Indy. They are either realise the can’t win in the longer term, or in the short term they hope talking it up will put some of the 55% NOs off the SNP.
I accidentally moved to 6:10 initially, where they were discussing the Scottish election. This ended and they went straight on to a report about North Korea’s government! Coincidence?
Kaye’s still got time to squeeze in demented ‘Ian from Edinburgh’…’see these people, SNP, I’ll tell you this, see that Nicola Sturgeon, I’m telling you, and I’m just saying it, these people…’ etc.
Ian Murray? :O
😉
Union Kate is really ramping things up against the SNP this morning, the Usual filtered calls, only a rare SNP supporter on, for “balance”! The agenda is, to split the SNP vote.
I am also suspicious about texts and emails, which could have come from anywhere, or simply made up by someone with a desk near Kaye’s. Again, an occasional SNP one for that acclaimed ” balance”. Which is soo important to them, part of their usual propaganda.
Thanks for the Link Capella.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b078wxzb
Sheer bloody bad manners from the Westminster propaganda channel’s
scriptwriter delivered by John Humphries.
For years I had perceived EBC presenters such as Jeremy Vine,
Louise Minchin, and John Humphries to be amiable characters, right up until they interviewed our duly elected First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.
They turn into savage beasts with ludicrous claims and incessant interruptions. Are they indoctrinated, given scripts and a malevolence coach, or are they concerned that their £Million pound contracts may not be renewed if they show any signs of
decency or respect for the Scottish electorate.
Yet another horrific EBC attack on democracy.
I must be behind the curve again. Someone said that the Sturgeons photo with the Sun was Photoshop per. I don’t know!
But Carolyn Leckie in The National says it’s gospel and a big mistake. She also said “SNP boring campaign”
What’s the truth ?
Torrance and Hothersall and the famous Scott from Edinburgh all on the same morning. Good old Auntie shortbread,Only 3 days to go.
SNP x 2
@ galamcennalath
The BBC is obviously going to hammer away at this neverendum theme all week. The anxiety levels are clearly rising. Humphries made the same comment as Neil Oliver. It must be meme of the week.
The reason is that we only have to win once. Yoons have to win every time.
@Robert Peffers
What a torrid time you have had! Stay strong, I’m sure you will sort it out soon, and hope you can be back here enjoying it.
Effigy, these journos will do whatever is necessary to maintain the status quo. The Establishment is very worried since Nicola is a real threat to their corrupt system (including the BBC). I no longer have any respect for the self-regarding people on The Today Programme.
As Breeks said further up the thread, they have used all the dark arts in the past to mislead and to “shape” the news to influence the listener. They are good at it but once you are aware they are not the most wonderfulest, impartialest broadcaster there’s ever been, they are a busted flush and you can see clearly what they’re up to, and not in just their anti-Scotland propaganda. The whole anti-semitism storm this week is a Blairite project to make criticism of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians more difficult. Lord Levy even said Zionist should not be used because it was a Very Bad Word and the BBC play along. Of course, it’s also a way of attacking Corbyn.
We really must get out of this corrupt Union and the next step is on Thursday.
A mischievous sod on twitter seems to be behind the Dandy photoshop, initially passing it off as the work of naughty unionists then later admitting he was behind it. Sadly she did pose with the paper
Fact and fiction-the bbc is obviously very worried and pulling out any guns they can deploy. Humphries treatment of FM this morning was disgusting DC would not be treated like that, it was more like a police interrogation than interview. Same with radio shortbread and KA they must spend a long time finding callers or have their own band of anti snp on speed dial. Labour activists given free rein. I don’t remember snp getting any air time 20 years ago but now anyone who can split their vote is given time to do their worst.
SNP X 2 everyone
Ms Sturgeon posing with the Sun is not a good look – especially as we have all been reminded in the last week of Hillsborough and Kelvin McKenzie.
Perhaps another wee unionist trick?
May be a moot point but that clip of Alex Salmond circa 1978 from a few threads back, when Healy spoke and the audience cheered, watch the camera pan around and ask yourself, where is that cheering coming from?
I counted around 12 people max, unless there was a hidden section of the audience making that noise then I’d say it was dubbed in.
Seems like an old BBC trick they are still using to great effect.
BBC Bias? It’s plain for all to see.
I think It was his second post maybe a month ago when I thought neo was either a idiot, a troll, or a employee.
Still haven’t worked out which. His mistakes, and they are plenty, if he was indeed an independence supporter, point to fool, but his post earlier when trying to insinuate Nicola had let slip something “or something else” point to a conniving mind, not a fool!
It’s a well worn tactic, say what you’re audience wants to hear, then slipping in the barb, the misinformation, ever so gently, so well done neoconservative angry man, or whatever your next name will become, I don’t think we’re going to be blessed with your absence, you’re a man on a mission, and you will have your say.
But I believe in free speech, as glib as that sounds, I acknowledge your opinion, I don’t agree with it, but there’s the rub!
I told you I see you.
But as eventually a fool will speak the truth once in his life, the point about the audience in the speakers debate, in my view reasonable balanced, in that each party was about equally represented. The problem with that when the question of independence in raised the audience immediately becomes seriously unbalanced, roughly by two to one.
I did watch with the sound down, and you can clearly see quite a few not clapping, but watch again with the sound up, and the unionists are definitely louder, a trick they obviously learned when attending their local orange parade, bang the drum loud boy’s when passing a Catholic Church!
What was concerning for me was their foot stamping for the suggestion that even if it can be proven that a clear majority wish independence they, the unionist will oppose it, loudly an with a return to the unionists violence and intimidation we saw during the last referendum.
Remember it was unionists who declared they would “milliterise Scotland” given that from an organisation that has historically linked itself to terrorist groups is no idle threat.
So the unionists say the country is devided, and we should heal the scar? Really when you oppose the democratic rights of half the population?
The problem for the unionists is that they got what they wanted, the old political setup has ended, it has been replaced with two camps, both diametrically opposed to each other, and how this will end is anyone’s guess. But one thing is self evident, the union is over, and God doesn’t the population see it. And on both sides, that’s why they bang their feet and yelp and shout, fear, fear of the unknown, fear of change, just old fashioned fear.
Saw this on Angry Salmond
https://twitter.com/AngrySalmond/status/727064616581386240/photo/1?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=AngrySalmond&utm_content=727064616581386240
If this is true then the Labour bitterness is rising not receding.
Robert Peffers@9.47
Sorry to hear about your problems.
If you are based in the Highlands, I will happily recommend honest, reliable time served tradesmen.
Back to the main subject, as usual each morning before we switch on the wireless, the wife and I have a wee guess as to what headline Radio Shortbread will be running with,80% of the time we are right on the money.
This morning was as usual classic garbage.
Missed most of K wi an E fae the Valleys, but caught the last five minutes, before I switched the radio on in my van, I said to myself they will be ranting on about the “Quality”?!?! debate from last night, and there will be a caller who “used to vote SNP but is now a Tory”, but is actually reading from a Yoon newspaper.
Right on cue,radio on,to hear some arsehole saying exactly that.
I have no problem with anyone’s political stance but Fu*k knows where Radio Shortbread get these people.
I am now at the stage of just laughing at the EBC Shortbread and EBC shires. Journalism?? my arse.
Truly Pathetic.
SNPx2.
Despite the awful interview of Ruth Davidson yesterday on Northsound1 Scotland’s Talk-In and the seeming soft touch approach she got from “her” callers, tacked right on at the end the host read out a text regarding her role in the referendum postal votes shenanigans, which she obviously deinied.
The interesting thing about it was for the remainder of the day the same station had a report with her denying her role in the RPV’s, maybe that was what had her rattled on tv last night. It seems to be a sore point for her and maybe something worth exploiting in the run up to the Scottish election.
http://archive.is/eO7Ra
Scots threaten to block English freedom from the EU, says LEO MCKINSTRY
🙂
‘Last year the Scottish National Party won 56 out of 59 Scottish seats in the general election while the cause of independence was defeated only by a narrow margin in the referendum.‘
Independence defeated only by a narrow margin!!!!
That is something Unionist are not prepared to accept. They claim their 55% was an overwhelming majority, decisive victory blah! blah! blah!
RE Neil Oliver does anyone know which party he supporters? Is he a Tory?
Gary45% says:
I am now at the stage of just laughing at the EBC Shortbread and EBC shires. Journalism?? my arse.
Ruby replies
I agree I find the whole thing very funny I nearly pee my pants when I hear the term ‘once in a generation, once in a lifetime’ trotted out over and over and over and over and over and over again!
IndyRef1 was a once in a lifetime opportunity and IndyRef2 will also be a once in a lifetime opportunity!
IndyRef1 was just a dress rehersal for IndyRef2!
Anent the Twat with the Cravat, he’s obviously born out of his time, Dr Johnson the great lexicographer dearly loved a Scotch Arsewipe, Neil Oliver would have fitted the bill to a T.
If I was a teacher writing a report card on the SNP, it would be very positive big black tick on the whole, but spoiled by a big red fail for the SNP on media studies.
I know, it is very difficult to get any point across when the media pursues its agenda to channel debate up any convenient cul-de -sac, but the YES campaign failed to do it, and the SNP flounders against it too. Come on people. Learn. Adapt. Improve.
Nobody wants our politicians bound to well rehearsed official statements and robotic referrals to policy documents; spontaneous conversation is good and healthy, but sometimes it lacks perspective and fails to see the bigger picture.
Take last night’s leadership debate. It would seem any discussion about the actual merits of Scottish Independence is firmly off the agenda. The BBC has manufactured the perception that Indyref2 is a mere manifesto pledge which the SNP should resolve on its own time while the other parties get back to business as usual. Oh yeah? Who made that decision?
Against that backdrop, precisely what opportunity is there to steer any political discussion towards the actual merits of independence?
Independence is THE issue on minds of the Scottish electorate, whether for it or against it, yet it isn’t being constructively discussed anywhere. Instead we are locked in debate about whether we have had the debate.
The Unionist media is determined, absolutely determined to hamper, obstruct, curtail, divert or malign every opportunity to prevent dispassionate and constructive discussion of Scottish Independence based upon the actual merits of what it actually means.
Our freedom is an argument which Unionism cannot win, so it is an argument which Unionism must prevent happening.I wish every SNP spokesperson or pro-indy commentator would refresh themselves with that big picture perspective before engaging in these sideshow debates. They are simply mechanisms to control the agenda.
Look at Ruth Davidson. She hasn’t a single policy to sell to the people of Scotland. Her objective is to disrupt, badger, and interrupt whatever it is the First Minister wants to say. It is a fundamental doctrine of Unionism that the people of Scotland must be denied the opportunity to engage with the very concept of Independence.
Independence isn’t a policy. It is a flexible and ever changing framework that is built to house all policy. Once that penny drops, suddenly there is nothing more pressing to discuss except Independence.
Neil Oliver does anyone know which party he supporters? Is he a Tory
I always considered him a BBC Labour lovie along with the Tony Robinson’s et al.
I liked his programmes and bought the History of Ancient Britain book but he is in danger of becoming Starkeyesque in his weirdness of late.
Return of the conniving fool.
So, yes, Andrew McClean, I’m some kind of troll. My views prove it. It would be easier for everybody, I suppose, if you could find some distinct point of principle that would serve as a branch to hang me from. But it’s a strange fruit when you seem to agree with so much that I say.
The audience was fairly balanced last night and it was honest of you to acknowledge that, Andrew. Speaking of strange fruit — in this case the orange — I liked what you said about the noise the Unionists made. Incidentally, there a few others in the ranks of regulars on here who attacked me for drawing attention to the mentality and aggression of that particular demographic.
If I am to be hung as a troll for my views, then, it looks like I might have some company. Maybe you can swing by some time for a chat.
And btw, you were right to query my ‘or something else” line. It was a bit of an insinuation; you have an eye for detail. If you’re still interested, I will explain that on Friday, after the election. If I was to explain it now, I’d be open to accusations of attacking the SNP.
Conan, I am quite accustomed to being called a troll and various other colourful things, but your suggestion that I am here in some professional capacity as a writer is probably something you should discuss with your GP.
Bonkers.
The polarising of groups is becoming even more extreme. It seems the smaller tribes are reducing their arguments to ridiculous levels to smear entire groups of people.
Of course I am guilty as charged as I cannot for the life of me understand why any one could ever vote Tory, given their core beliefs and, more importantly, what they have done in Government. It changes my view of them, no matter how much I try to rationalise that they may be decent in other ways.
However, it is beyond logic that some Indy supporters to choose to spoil a ballot paper and jeopardise their aims because of newspaper endorsements or who follows whom on social media.
Of note, Helensburgh has had many of the SNP placards removed from lampposts. The SLab and Tory ones are still in place.
@ Davy at 8.10
I believe Botox has this effect – I don’t, of course, have any personal experience 🙂 .
The removal of election posters probably happens every election and should happen after the election is over. The problem isn’t it happening as a spontaneous unorganised expression of opposition but an organised effort to eliminate mention of a rival risks backfiring if revealed. Instead of the intended effect of disheartening the support of that rival and making it seem they have little to no chance it shows they are feared.
In the same light it’s interesting that Davidson refused to fall for committing herself to saying she would advise the Prime Minister to veto a future referendum as she knows that the Scottish electorates response to that would be “is that a fact?” . Not that she and the rest of the unionists aren’t all setting things up to ignore the mandate the SNP would have.
On a lighter note. Dugdale , Davidson and Rennie taken together are Double D with a Wee Willie. Sounds a bit like a tranny. Obviously nothing against transgenders or pre ops in general but I never got the whole Nadia thing on Big Brother. She had to be a fucking nightmare to live with especially when suffering nicotine withdrawal.
HandandShrimp
Cheers!
What about the NeoConnard does anyone know which party he/she supports and does anyone care?
Ruby, he’s never voted in any Scottish elections, including the referendum. So no and no in answer to your question. 🙂
K1 says:
2 May, 2016 at 3:32 pm
Ruby, he’s never voted in any Scottish elections, including the referendum. So no and no in answer to your question. 🙂
Ruby replies
That’s weird!
Has the Neo Connard been in prison or perhaps he doesn’t live in Scotland.
Could it be that he hasn’t reached voting age or perhaps everything he posts is a load of lies!
I might be making a big mistake about the gender of the Neo Connard perhaps I should be calling her Neo Conasse!
Does anyone know his/her gender and does anyone care?
Ruby Dear we don’t care.
“Voters thanked us by deserting us.”
BAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
That is all.
Ruby dear why do you care?
For those of you who stalk and troll me, just thought I would let you know that I will not be commenting on this particular thread any more.
The debate is over, another victory for science and reason.
jcd Why do you care that I care? 🙂
Do you care that the Neo Connard/Conasse will no longer comment on this thread?
I’ll probably not comment any more on this thread either as I’ve had my fun for the day. I’m off to comment on the new thread.
I just thought I would let you know just incase you do care!
NeoconNat@5.30,
I think you need some love man.
When Utopia comes you will embrace it or disappear very bitter.
One mans ideals are different from another, but I suggest unless you take in all the facts and reasons from all sources you will come to a biased conclusion.
Big Love and Peace .
SNPx2 “You know it makes sense.”
2 more headlines before polling day.
Will they be vows, smears or misdirection ?
11.02 am andrew maclean. Bang on andrew, this union is over and i personally want f**k all to do with the neil olivers and unionist scum in scotland. Rot in hell you ("Quizmaster" - Ed) b******s.
Oh dear, neoconservative isn’t what you would call an intellectual is he.
I am actually sad he has outed himself as a bore. Maybe Ruth will break him in? Yeh ha! Squeal piggy squeal!
Ian more 5.10 pm 1st may. Good job those tory/ukip voting holiday home owners dont live in wales, otherwise the sons of glendowr might have a warm welcome in the valleys for them lol.