A fuse is lit
Posted on
July 12, 2023 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Those first three paragraphs. Ooft.
And the rest of it doesn’t pull many punches either. Let’s hope it’s just the first crack in the dam. The opportunity for the others in the party to find their courage is fast ebbing away, and history will be unmerciful if they don’t seize it.
Good guy ?
Angus is, yes.
I always had high hopes of Angus MacNeil. All he needs to do now is embrace #ScottishUDI and he can be the leader the Yes movement needs. More power to your rebellious elbow, Angus!
#EndTheUnion #ScottishUDI #NoSection30 #ManifestoForIndependence
I’ve always been a big fan of Angus. He could do with someone to proof read his letters mind you.
My one concern is that there might be those in the SNP who will see this as the bit in the remake of shaft where he threw his badge like a shuriken when he resigned and accept it as his “resignation” from the party.
His hopes of any conference changing the direction of the SNP ship towards one where he would be happy to continue as an elected representative would have a higher chance of success if he actually had a vote. Then again SNP members in general having a vote about the direction of the party might be too much to ask for.
Praise the Lord! I hope that letter is a template for others. (I won’t mention numbers because I’m frightened to hope.)
Wow! In 2015
who would’ve believed a sitting SNP MP
would make such a scathing & accurate statement?
Superb Angus McNeil. Absolutely brilliant.
Sturgeon. Peter Murrell and the rest the cabal have swindled the money. Swindled your votes. And swindled Independence.
Brave stance from him. Kudos.
I hope of course that others follow but Angus has been a solo drum-beater for several years on the subject of a Plan B route to independence.
I don’t recall any other SNP MP backing him up.
Good. More need to join him
Scottish influence in the Hebrides and Northern Isles developed from the 13th century before they fell to the Scottish Crown. I reckon Angus will have a multi faceted fight on his hands: keep the UK union; seek Crown Dependency as in Channel Islands; Union with Norway (along with Orkney) or try to convince his constituents that despite the collapse of the SNP an independent Scotland is still a thing.
Ghostly606 – Agreed. I’m no expert but the first sentence in the fifth paragraph would read much better with “and they left” rather than a comma. But yes, well done Angus. I’m not holding out much hope that he’ll be joined by others.
It’s good to see the SNP rebellion getting
into gear against the gibbering fawning lame duck false minister Yousaf.
We want Independence now. 53 per cent in the polls.
Why should we continue to pay for the SNPs first class lifestyles and jolly ups to New York and Egypt?
Yousless is in trouble. He’s not going to make October. I sincerely hope he doesn’t qualify for the First Minister’s pension either.
Let’s see what the massive squad police investigation into Indy Swindlers delivers.
If only they’d allowed us to exercise our right to self determination we’d love them. But they don’t.
Well done, Angus MacNeil. Hopefully this is the start of something radical. The SNP leadership [for want of a better word] must be challenged over their deliberate deceit for independence.
STV lunchtime news reporting this about Angus, I wondered where his redline would be.
Last post. But I’m absolutely buzzing for McNeil. Finally a bit of hope. To salvage the SNP and to salvage Independence.
Time to strip the rot from the head. The cabal have to go.
We want Independence. We want it mow.
I’m so cynical nowadays that I can’t take this at face value as anything other than a cynical play to distance himself from a rapidly toxifying brand for self.preservation purposes.
I sincerely hope I am wrong.
“Those first three paragraphs. Ooft”
Paragraphs 5 and 6 double-ooft!
Bloody well said Angus!
Hopefully this trickle will be the start of something.
Many SNPs will be privately weighing their options now, but few will be as brave as Angus and leave their comfy trenches. If/when the trickle starts to flood (eventually), then quite a few of those less courageous may be ready to take a stand. This is going to get ugly, and there is no easy way around it.
However, it’s a struggle that must be met head on and dealt with effectively before the independence movement can move on. The sooner the better – for everyone concerned, for Scotland. This is a right mess Nicola Sturgeon has left us with, but there’s no use in crying over spilt milk. Wot’s done is done. Onwards and upwards. Good on ye Angus – keep the pressure on.
Glad he has stood up at last. Had my fears he would either eventually be subsumed or drummed out somehow or was basically an “approved rebel”, but seems he has some plums at least. Let’s see if others have any spine and that none fold after whatever guddle is offered up in the autumn
Well done Angus.
You’ve known for a loooooog time now that it was futile to remain since plan B was met with such hostility. The SNP was completely captured even then.
& It must’ve been gaulling being under the constant thumb of someone who deliberately chose herself & her own interests above that of her mandates.
Wishing you well as a fellow indy supporter..
Fighting talk from Angus. Good.
Let’s hope more join him. They can’t all be cowards – Can they ?
Humza’s days are numbered – doubleplus good.
Angus has just become target number one for the transcult. Let’s see who throws the first stone for the Sturgeonites.
P.S. Anyone else hearing Sturgeon is phoning round and getting polite but firm short shrift ? Are her little helpers trying to distance themselves from her and her ridiculous transcult ?
Let’s hope so.
Some incredible people come from the Hebridees. True Scotsmen. SNP patriots. Freedom fighters.
We want Independence and we want it now.
I’ve always had a lot of time for Angus, but as has been said already, he could do with a proof reader! He has been the most obvious ‘rebel in waiting’ for some time, so this hasn’t come as a huge surprise. I do hope this is the start of something bigger, but I’m not counting any chickens yet.
The other thing which doesn’t surprise me is Peter Bell renewing calls for UDI, which continues to boil my urethral fluid. When are these (otherwise sensible speakers) going to realise that UDI is neither an answer to our troubles in the modern world, nor a subject which will garner any sway with the bulk of the Scottish polity?
The notion of UDI is anathema to all but the most ardent of political fantasists. Talk of UDI is simply a sure-fire method of turning ordinary people away from the idea of independence, full-stop.
I have listened to both Peter Bell and Craig Murray talk a lot of sense in meetings, but it’s as if they take a wee dram and then simply just lose the plot as they ramble off down the UDI path.
Not only would a UDI alienate Scotland from it’s neighbours in the wider world, unless there was mass public support (circa 80%) from within Scotland, it would only end in civil turmoil and ultimately bloodshed. A far cry from the likes of Czechoslovakia in 1992, which is ultimately the situation we in Scotland need to be aiming for.
If we can get to that level of public support, we won’t be needing any kind of UDI.
I’m not going to get unduly excited. There have been too many false dawns and I’m too used to disappointment. I had expected that there would have been several more defections by now, if not just from sheer embarrassment at having to represent such a shambolic and duplicitous party.
It looks as if Angus has had to go it alone, since whenever group defections take place, then allies of the same mind have usually made an arrangement beforehand on how to gain maximum advantage for their position in how they actually announce their defections.
As far as UDI us concerned, if 100% of Scots voted for independence Westminster said “No”, we’d just shrug our shoulders and say “Sorry”?
In any case has the UDI question been posed in any polls? Has anyone sounded out our neighbours? Spain is too far away and they’re easily bought with fish.
I’m not looking to start a fight. Only that the issue comes up now and again and people are either for it or against it, but there’s never any evidence offered on the pros or cons.
Most excellent – proof reader notwithstanding!
God not this nonsense about the Western and Northern Isles again. Orkney has been inhabited for roughly 8,500 years. It was invaded by the Vikings in 9th century and later ceded to Scotland for non payment of dowry in 15th. It is as much Pictish as Viking. The Western Isles were part of Scotland before being ceded to Vikings then returned to Scotland.
In the unlikely event Shetland and Orkney leave Scotland, we are owed the dowry plus interest. That would bankrupt even Norway 🙂
That’s some letter from Angus. nuSNP deserved the telling. It would be interesting to see how would win at the next GE with Torcuil Crichton standing for Labour, Angus as an independent and someone else for SNP…
Well, well. It is getting interesting.
panda paws
Don’t forget Caithness.
In any case, succession is not the issue. It’s the excessive centralisation that’s the problem. Scotland has, at best, regional government. It doesn’t have local government. Give the areas furthest from the central belt more say over local affairs and the issue goes away. No, Inverness doesn’t count. Abolishing the regions would be a good start.
Tartan Tory
UDI is exactly what you are suggesting.
80% ??? LOL!!
UDI comes after a mandate.
Not a mibbies aye, mibbies naw, mibbies I’ll think about it later.
It is a declaration made when something is won.
50% + one or with this new 80% rule of yours, does that mean Brexshit is void?
Setting aside politicians and party policy, how could the Scottish population recall it’s parliament from Westminster, to reconvene in Edinburgh?
Other than by petition, could any legal action for autonomy be brought to bear, by the general public, while existing political mandate for a referendum remains uninforced!
The People of Scotland versus SNP and separately, The People of Scotland versus Parliament, appears to be the only way, to force the issue of sovereignty and recall of the Scottish Parliament from Westminster, to end Devolution and the Union!
The need for proof of a 50%+ majority of ‘The People’, being the crux of the matter to be tested by the court! The court would require that clarification, by the only means possible… legitimately held referendum!
@ Tartan Tory: “UDI is anathema..”
Given that Scotland has a separate legal system from England, it cannot be the case that we are one country. And Scotland is recognised as having the Sovereignty of the People rather than “Crown in Parliament” as its constitutional basis.
Those are just 2 elements of the evidence that Scotland has a distinct existence from England. So why should Scotland behave as if it is subordinate? Why should we not assert Scotland’s right to decide?
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you and Peter A Bell mean by the term UDI.
Well said Angus! We’ve all known this for some time but it is very refreshing to see a sitting MP saying it out loud. Surely tae fuck there will be more to follow his lead?
Stuart MacKay – [i]I’m not looking to start a fight. Only that the issue comes up now and again and people are either for it or against it, but there’s never any evidence offered on the pros or cons.[/i]
UDI generally worked for new countries right up until the first world war, although typically there was still some kind of local war over it. The United States is the most obvious one (1776), then the likes of Greece (1821), Belgium (1830) and Ireland (1919).
However, if you look during my lifetime, you begin to see a pattern of international discontent and/or civil unrest associated with any attempted UDI.
Rhodesia (1965)
Anguilla (1967)
Bangladesh (1971)
East Timor (1975)
Northern Cyprus (1983)
Palestine (1988)
Croatia (1991)
Slovenia (1991)
Bosnia/Herzegovina (1992)
Kosovo (2008)
Catalonia (2017)
The few which did succeed paid a heavy social price, as did those which failed. Looking at the list above, do you see any modern, settled, international power-house? No!
Sadly, whether we like it or not, the UK (or what might remain of it) has many political allies across the world. They may not wish to see an independent Scotland fail, but the realpolitik would mean that they would side with Westminster in any grievance. In other words, British tanks on Scottish streets would not have the international community up in arms.
Is it a coincidence that those associated as being critical of the leadership are from the north of Scotland?
Too many of them have kept their traps shut for too long so any “road to Damascus” stuff we’d maybe see now is more to do with self-preservation than what’s good for the people of Scotland.
The SNP needs destroyed completely before the independence cause can move forward. Thanks, Sturgeon – thanks for absolutely sweet fck all.
Always liked the lad. Hopefully the goods handful that is left will join him, as it appears internally they are totally went full metal kamikaze.
@panda paws says:12 July, 2023 at 2:54 pm
In the unlikely event Shetland and Orkney leave Scotland, we are owed the dowry plus interest
Hmmm, technically the heirs of King James III of Scotland are owed.
There’s another way of looking at it though. Shetland and Orkney are owed centuries of reparations for being colonised by first Scotland and then the UK. That will bankrupt both exchequers.
Maybes an iScotland should leave Shetland and Orkney in rUK? Let them pay the reparations.
Meantime, innarestin to see stirrings of freedom in the Western Isles. Maybes they will vote again against joining the EU, just like they did (along with Shetland) in 1975.
In the terms of what people talk about regarding Scottish independence, UDI means raising our borders, raising a flag and proclaiming independence without a proper mandate and without political dialogue. Otherwise known as a military or political coup. This is what UDI means.
Nicola and her cabal could have done it at any time in the past nine years, but she’d have been behind (UK) bars within hours.
FWIW I’d love to see Ash Regan joining forces with Angus. Start talking to Alba and others about the Scotland United idea, get prepared for every election, no matter how small. Maybe Margaret Ferrier would be up for it too?
Well done Angus Mc(che Guevara) McNeil, any man who romps with two teenage girls whilst his wife is pregnant with their 3rd child will always get my vote. (Fuckin creep)
Tartan Tory..
No she wouldn’t have because you conveniently forget she was given repeated democratic mandates to enact it.
There you lot go, making up the rules no other fecker in the real world recognises.
A democratic ballot is UDI.
Tartan Tory,
Thanks. I agree, that given the current climate, tanks on the streets wouldn’t create much of a stir internationally. However there are several things that might change the situation:
1) the current conflict spirals out of control, in which case there might not be much in the way of tanks to put on the streets;
2) there’s a growing antagonism between the UK and the USA. It might just be a spat over the NATO Secretary General position but again, it might be something deeper. The Democrats are likely to retain power and their fondness for things Irish and disdain for things English is not limited to Biden;
3) the UK continues to decline and it simply cannot hold onto Scotland. Once Ireland is unified, Scotland peeling off as well might happen by default or simply through English apathy.
4) Benign or malign neglect from government (north or south of the border) might just force the issue and the population starts doing things for itself.
I don’t think the current political situation in the west can continue. Either there’s a crackdown in which case independence is off the table, since it would only encourage others or stuff starts to fall apart in which case independence would be an act of self-preservation. Interesting times.
Den, are you a BBC presenter?
Better a stooshie than fatalistic docility. More please.
@ Geri
Nicola never had a proper democratic mandate for anything, and certainly not to pursue a UDI.
UDI is making up the rules no other fecker in the real world recognises.
A democratic ballot is NOT, of itself, a UDI.
Tartan Tory says
Ah UDI. I n 1707 we had a unilateral declaration of OCCUPATION. UDO
without a proper mandate and without political dialogue. Otherwise known as a military or political coup.
Unlike the rest of them. He actually speaks the thoughts of the majority of the Yes movement. Nothing will happen in October, so will he join Alba. Or as is hoped, is this the beginning of a breakaway rainbow independence alliance party. Lets hope so.
While Angus is generally well-liked in the Western Isles, the SNP no longer are.
Calmac, protected marine areas and a general feeling of “they don’t give a fuck about us” mean that this is unfortunately going to be a Labour seat with (gods help us all) Torcuil Crichton as MP after the next GE.
I wonder if Angus would be as “brave” were he in a “safe” constituency although there’s going to be precious few of them the way Humza is going…
We’ll see what we see I guess.
Tartan Tory speaks agains UDI. The insistence appears to be on a majority in a referendum, in order to negotiate our departure from the UK. I’d have thought that the events of the last quarter of a century made it clear that the UK/aka Westminster will not be negotiating. It will be a flat “NO”.
The independence of the Irish Republic was made possible by the Easter Rising, not by a referendum. Subsequent to the horrors of the rising, Sinn Fein won an election. Those elected held a vote, and the vote was to declare independence.
Elected representatives in Scotland who are pro-independence have been in a majority for some time. They have not chosen to hold a vote on independence.
Big Jock @ 16.24
As he says in his letter that he’s “hoping to stand for the SNP” I guess that his heart remains with that party, and it’s unlikely he’ll move to Alba as long as he has any hope that it may change what he perceives as its present stance re independence.
Paragraph 5 is the killer one, IMHO…
He calls Stephen Flynn the best out of three leaders in Westminster, that made me laugh.
I thought the SNP had been transparent on Independence that is, 1, 60% must want it, 2,its has to be lawful, 3,and via a Section 30 order, because none of them wants to lose their jobs, remember folks it isn’t the UKG setting these rules its the SNP.
He’s the one who was supporting Kate Forbes and wasn’t Kate the one who didn’t mention Independence at all and was also seeking a Section 30 order, when the leadership contest started I was totally surprised Angus wasn’t supporting Ash Regan when Ash was offering Angus all he was asking for, I for one am not fooled by this and my opinion of Angus changed when he supported Kate during that leadership contest.
So what does this article actually say, well my take on it is, that Angus is looking out for one thing only, himself. He knows that if he stands as an SNP candidate at the next election he wont get elected unless the SNP has a concrete plan for independence, so hes trying to keep a foot in both camps, not to safeguard Scotland but himself.
Its appalling that 7 SNP MPs would rather stand down than call out the leadership on their stance on independence than try and win their seats on a Scotland United.
The Simple fact is that no Unionist or politician south of the border is denying Scotland legal right to be Independence its the SNP and its membership and their leadership, the only two who’d I’d trust is Ash Regan and Joanna Cherry they both stood on a ticket of truly advancing the case for Independence and my wife and myself protest outside with Joanna about how to get back into the EU.
“I have listened to both Peter Bell and Craig Murray talk a lot of sense in meetings,”
Of course being an anathema yourself (a Tartan Tory) to a majority of Scots you’d know better than an ex-British ambassador on how we dump this undemocratic prison of a union.
The VEM as explained by Ash Regan and the Rev, is a totally viable route out of this union, a 50+1% of the vote at every election GE/Holyrood is enough to dissolve this rancid prison of a union.
As David Davis an English politician said, there’s no treaty in the world where one party has to ask the permission of the other party to leave the treaty.
As for international recognition, I recall David Cameron swanning around Europe in 2014 hoping that European countries would back his stance on telling Scots that they should remain in the union, I’m pretty sure most if not all foreign ambassadors politely told him to f*ck off.
50+1% of the vote and we’re outta here no ifs no buts.
Well done that MP
Note the UKer nutter already stating the rest of the World will be cool with Britnat tanks on the streets of Scotland. You can just tell this tank commander is just praying ? for the chance they can rush, rebellious Scots to crush .
Enjoy your glorious 12th melts
Sigh.
In general. I disaprove of and avoid the ad-hominem attack.
In some cases, people will take it as an attack against the individual if you comprehensively destroy every single point they have typed.
Perhaps they might already have made their own first impression, and are seen as self important, arrogant or opinionated blowhards
Regular readers will have their own opinions.
Today I shall refrain from filling paragraphs with rebutting other peoples shite.
Instead I urge them to first read this.
“What is #ScottishUDI?”
https://peterabell.scot/2023/06/24/what-is-scottishudi/
I would then urge them to engage their brains and go and THINK about what Peter Bell has had to say. Really think about it.
If someone makes a well reasoned proposal and your attempt to rubbish it involves setting up a straw man argument to then knock it down (with fact free assertions and/or lies), then you are NOT contributing to the debate.
Individuals who say they believe in restoring Scotlands Independence should understand what that means.
Both in general: – resile from the Act of Union.
and for them: – Decolonise your mind.
😉
Let’s say, in any litigation of, The People versus SNP and or Parliament, the court decides to sanction legal definition of a majority of ‘The People’ in pursuit of recall of the Scottish Parliament, from Westminster to reconvene in Edinburgh, ending Devolution and the Union (via court sanctioned referendum, proof of 50%+ majority).
Would you trust SNP to present the case for independence, in the run-up to the newly sanctioned referendum? I wouldn’t trust them to present a cogent argument. SNP’s recent supreme court performance, counter to everything that Scottish Sovereignty and that governance should represent!
I would not allow SNP anywhere near the debate for Scottish independence, in any forthcoming referendum campaign.
A little bit about Egypt’s UDI.
https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/egyptian-independence-1919-22/
And a hundred years later the English government, nefarious as its predecessors helped destroy Egyptian democracy.
“This July 3 marks the 10th anniversary of Egyptian army chief General Abdel Fattah Sisi’s violent seizure of power in Cairo. The first democratically elected leader in 5000 years of Egyptian history, Mohamed Morsi, was swept from office, his supporters were massacred by the hundreds, and he ultimately died in prison. With US and UK support, Sisi quickly reversed any tentative democratic gains made during the country’s brief, difficult transition from the rule of longtime Western-backed autocrat Hosni Mubarak.
In the decade since Sisi’s coup, his government has systematically crushed opposition to his rule. Political parties and critical media have been banned en masse, activists, journalists, and civil society actors harassed, disappeared, tortured and jailed, and prisons transformed into hotbeds of systemic sexual violence, and other horrific abuse. It is estimated that half of Egypt’s 120,00 inmate population are currently incarcerated for political reasons, one of the highest rates in the world.”
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/07/05/reuters-overthrow-egyptian-democracy/
Craig Murray is spot on when he says this below.
“UK domestic law is entirely irrelevant. The Kosovo Opinion of the International Court of Justice makes crystal clear that the domestic law of the state being seceded from, is not the determining factor as to whether a secession is illegal.
Whereas the reliance by the UK Supreme Court on the criteria of the Federal Court of Canada in the Quebec judgment, over fifty years old and superseded by the cold hard fact of over 23 non-colonial secessions since, is simply laughable.
But while the right of self-determination of peoples in international law is crucial in the case of Scotland, and while Scotland undoubtedly qualifies as a “people” because it is a long established historic nation with its own legal system, culture and institutions, there is one overwhelmingly important criterion for recognition grounded in pure realpolitik.
It was long accepted as the only criterion for recognition that a state had factual, practical control of its own territory. That position has become softened by more principled considerations since the second world war, but the actual control of the territory claimed remains the most important factor in gaining international recognition.
Why did Catalonia fail where Slovenia, Kosovo and the Baltic states succeeded?
Because realpolitik rules in practice, and the Slovenians, Balts and Kosovans had obtained actual control on the ground of the land they claimed. The Catalans had not.
Physical control is not a sufficient condition for recognition – see the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus – but in effect it is a necessary condition.
The UK Establishment will never agree to Scottish Independence. Scotland’s resources are far too valuable to them. Scotland has to declare Independence unilaterally, and take it.
It is no use doing this like Catalonia, where the Spanish civil guard and judiciary effectively wiped out the nascent state before it could breathe.
A Scottish government, whether arising from the Scottish Parliament or from another body, needs in declaring Independence to ensure it has practical control of Scotland.
That means that the organs of the state have to acknowledge the Scottish state. All taxes collected must go to Edinburgh, not to Westminster. The judiciary must apply Scottish laws and not Westminster ones, where they conflict, and specifically apply all new laws post the Declaration of Independence. The police must answer only to Scottish authorities. Ultimately so must the military stationed in Scotland.
At the time Independence is declared, immediate action must be taken to ensure all civil servants, judges, police and military take an oath of loyalty to the people of Scotland and its new government, and renounce any previous loyalty to Crown and to UK political institutions. Anybody refusing must be summarily dismissed from their positions.
We have the example of Catalonia before us. We also have the example of Egypt’s only ever democratically elected leader, President Morsi, who died horribly in jail after being overthrown by a CIA coup because he failed to take the elementary precaution of dismissing and imprisoning all the military regime’s corrupt judges. He should have learnt from Fritz Bauer.
Let us not make those mistakes.
Ultimately, it boils down to this.
1) Westminster will never agree to Scottish Independence.
2) Scotland therefore has no option but to declare Independence unilaterally.
3) Any independent state must be prepared to defend itself by physical force from foreign attack. So must a newly declared Independent Scotland.
4) All who refuse to serve an Independent Scotland must then be removed from all organs of the state.
5) Once an Independent Scotland has physical control of its territory and resources, international recognition will soon follow. Brexit has completely changed the political atmosphere with regard to the crucial attitude of the European Union to London’s government.”
**Enjoy your glorious 12th melts**
LOL!
I wonder how many of them they have left? The people with nowhere left to call home.
While I note and respect the many good posts here (and on previous threads throughout the site in general) about our need to gain international recognition of our right to independence, is it not a cause for concern that the EU has, at best, kept its cards extremely close to its chest? Their reticence to get involved in 2014 was understandable, given their wish to appear impartial and not to interfere in the internal constitution of a member state, but a commonly held trope among Indy supporters is that the EU would be receptive to our accession, firstly because of our embarrassment of resources and secondly as a PR coup against the big bad UK. Isn’t their silence deafening now?
Perhaps those who advocate EFTA/EEA (including Alba) are more in touch with the realpolitik here? That said, while I would prefer this option a la Norway and Iceland (my second choice would be EU membership but with our own currency a la Sweden and Denmark) I would also question whether a Scottish accession would have the bargaining power to gain the same terms (i.e. rebate, permanent opt-out on Euro) as the UK enjoyed, by virtue of our size as well as the EU’s desire not to accede power in the post-Brexit climate.
@ Fartan Tory
Oi Nutter!
Am I right that in the IndyRef his constituency voted against Independence by 53.42%? Genuine question.
@Republicofscotland says:12 July, 2023 at 4:58 pm
I genuinely believe that Murray’s 5 points are firm evidence of just why he needs to take a holiday. I don’t have all night to start refuting them, but three obvious questions come to mind.
1) What is the estimate for the number of loyal Scots needed to govern, administer, defend and negotiate for iScotland, in government, the civil service, the armed forces, and diplomacy? Who are these people and what are they doing right now? How can their loyalty be guaranteed post UDI? To whom will they swear allegiance?
2) What is the post-UDI plan for the people at 1) to enforce UDI if a majority of Sovereign Scots, or just plain Scots, are opposed?
3) Can we assume that you personally will no longer be exhorting us to vote Alba (I assume that UDI is not Alba policy)?
Great post there from ROS @ 0458pm However, “ ultimately so must the military stationed in Scotland “ ( answer to Scottish authorities ) . Therein lies a problem ROS . Remember the coercion prior to the 1707 treaty, with English troops on the Scottish border . ? What proportion of “ British forces “ stationed in Scotland would “ take an oath of loyalty to the people of Scotland” ?
I always had high hopes for Angus B, and I’m glad he has made a stance – of sorts. Unfortunately he never dared when the tractor was still in the shed. Hopefully the crack will now widen and if there is any good left in the SNP, the floaters will be swept away – Humza and all the other debris…
@JohnMain
The Vikings invaded, they WERE the colonisers. Previously the islands were inhabited by Picts, prior to them neolithic tribes. Still if we want to go back to Viking times, most of England bar Wessex belongs to Denmark.
Cue letter from Humza thanking him for his service.
Cue comments from the SNP generally that he was not a team player.
There is no way back for him and he knows it. The SNP will regard what he says as blackmail.
Is he sacrificing himself for Scotland? Or hoping this is a way to saving his seat?
He won’t have much (any) influence by taking this stance by himself. If there are others who have decided to take the same line as Angus, and his announcement is the first of many, the position would be different.
The test will be how many others now follow suit. Who knows, this might be the first step by a group of people with the same view and a thought-out course of action. A genuine internal SNP revolt.
If not, what will it really achieve?
Sadly, one has to ask, how many indigenous folks are left on Skye?
@Antoine Bisset
RE UDI.
“The independence of the Irish Republic was made possible by the Easter Rising, not by a referendum. Subsequent to the horrors of the rising, Sinn Fein won an election. Those elected held a vote, and the vote was to declare independence.”
You forgot to mention that the vote for independence was followed by the Irish War of Independence (1919-1921)
“a guerrilla war between the Irish Republican Army and British forces: the British Army, along with the quasi-military Royal Irish Constabulary and its paramilitary forces the Auxiliaries and Ulster Special Constabulary”.
It forced Britain to the negotiating table, as British rule had become impossible in Ireland.
This confirms what Craig Murray said “actual control of the territory claimed remains the most important factor in gaining international recognition”
A majority of Scots may well vote for Independence supporting parties but if none is ready and willing to take the 1st step (declare independence) and follow it up with the 2nd (hold Scotland i.e. make Westminster rule impossible, by whatever means, NB not necessarily guerrilla warfare), then I’m afraid an Independent Scotland will remain a dream that will never die but will never be achieved
Always good to see a crack in the pro-Indy dam, and dissent among the supporters.
This country has gone to the dogs.
I had to walk to 3 post offices today. 2 shut down.
First bus cancelling the night buses in Glasgow.
What on earth is happening?
Our cities are filthy with rats. Vandalism. Empty shop units. Homeless people sleeping. Soup kitchens. Filth. Destitution and disease.
The fringe last year was absolutely horrendous. The bin strikes. Horrific. A filthy city. With a Military Tattoo signing God Save the King.
Our country has gone to the fucking dogs.
“The Fuse is Lit” – Sometimes the Stuart Campbell’s introduction says it all.
Good luck to Angus B MacNeil.
Panda Paws: absolutely agree. It has been established from numerous archeological digs that the people of Shetland and Orkney were the same as those on the mainland at that time. The Vikings were colonizers who probably butchered many of the indigenous people, enslaving many and impregnating many of the female population (supposition based on evidence from other Viking settlements such as York) before making a land grab and settling down to farm and fish as the indigenous people had done. So, basically, the islanders want away from their Scottish roots, destroyed by the Vikings and back to their colonizers? Ach well, hope they don’t let the door hit their nethers on the way out. Alternatively, they want to remain with rUK, that great philanthropist to the south? When Scotland becomes independent, it is to be hoped that a constitution will be drawn up that affords them far more autonomy than they enjoy at present. Up to them.
Stuart MacKay: Agree again. I’d go further. Bring back power to the local level as it was in the days of the burghs. Most things ran smoothly because the people on the burgh councils actually lived eiter within, or around, the burgh locality and understood the needs, etc. of their own people. It appears now as if we will be returning to the old rates system, although they call it council tax, by taxing those with big homes. Quelle Surprise! I predict that every aspect of public services and utilities will be returned to people (via state) control within the next fifty years, or sooner. Almost everything that privatization has touched has turned to dust, the marrow sucked out, as many of us said at the time would be the result.
The myth is that nationalization (state-owned) is the problem, but it is myth. The only businesses/services that serve well locally, and in private hands, are SMEs. Everything else, if it serves the public and is in private hands serves only the shareholders and the CEOs. Corporates are, by their very nature, globally-inclined and with no feeling for local needs and wants, and their natural resources, including their labour, a resource to be stolen and plundered at will. All services and institutions that exist to serve the public and draw their resources from local and central communities’ assets and resources need to be in public hands or they will always cheat and deceive the people and make them pay through the nose for what is theirs by right. I would hope that, when the English water companies return to the state, the CEOs and plunderers will be jailed and their personal assets frozen, to be used to off-set the catastrophe they have created. The cost to the public tax-payer will always be far more under privatization than it could ever have been under state-ownership.
That might be socialism, the jury’s out on that, but what it actually is, is common sense, sadly lacking in every political party in Scotland and the UK – and that includes the SNP which is up to its neck in handing away Scotland’s (and the people’s) natural resources for a song. It makes me laugh bitterly when I hear the supposedly left-wing Greens and the SNP ‘wokerati’ bump their gums about saving the planet when they are both so intent on selling Scotland to the lowest bidder at bargain basement prices, ensuring the planet’s destruction by the very global corporate interests they pretend to despise. They are enablers of the destruction of Scottish interests, and their form of ‘left-wing’ politics’ is the hard-left bampot, ‘just be kind’ variety that would ensure the detriment to Scotland, the country they purport to serve – and in more ways than one – and Scotland’s women and children are the front-line casualties and sacrifices in this insane self-destruction. Perhaps they could explain to us how, in a country that has a low birth rate, where the NHS is always under threat, condemning children to sterilization and life-long medical care makes sense when all the available evidence, from several countries, points to these children growing out of their ‘gender dysphoria’ which presents very much like a social contagion?
My faith restored in Angus McNeil.
He now needs to cross to Alba as Yusaf will never guarantee the request from Angus.
Let’s see how many others have the bollocks ro resign the whip and leave SNP.
Council taxes going up. 22 per cent it says in the news. Mortgages up £500. I despair.
We need action now. We need help now. We need Independence and polticians with a spine to fight for us.
Help us Angus McNeil. Save us all. Scotland’s imploding faster than the titan submersible under the SNP. We’re gubbed and a crying out for change. SOS. Save our futures.
Meanwhile, the SNP have issued proposals to put up council tax by 17.5% for band G properties, which my flat in Edinburgh is. It’s let out, to good tenants who pay their rent every month, look after the place, and have been there for 6 years.
I’m not going to pass that on to them, because they are good tenants, but there’s a fast approaching limit to what’s acceptable from Holyrood. There’s no actual detail in the proposal as to what Scot Gov are going to spend the money upon.
The problem with all the dowry chat vs Orkney and/or Shetland is that said dowry was to the monarch and not the people. Play that game and you head towards a scenario where they are Crown protectorates. Until independence that might put an interesting twist on any attempt to “reunite” with Norway. Though given the general clownitude of Charlie that’s no guarantee of anything
Shouldn’t he have stayed and fought with other like-minded members to rescue the party which was once the best hope for independence? Or is it personally more important for him to retain the seat by standing as an independent, also swerving the coming opprobrium when the electoral commission and maybe the police assess the party accounts? “Oh yeah, I used to be in the SNP, but that was before it went bad.” See also Mhairi Black, albeit with a different explanation. Who’s next?
Well done Angus. Superb letter, and accurate.
Ansd here’s the point, he is right. The SNP are not focused on independence, they have lost their main goal. This is why they are drifting this way and that, silly policy announcements, one after the other. On and on they drift, and, despite folks leaving the party in their droves, on they plough, telling themselves and the media that everything is just A ok. It isn’t. Scotland does not have another ten years to waste. Independence is urgent.
For Scotland to win independence, we need more Angus MacNeils.
It is high time quite a few others in the SNP decided if they are in it for the gravy train, or are they actually serious about independence. Tick tock.
A Scot abroad at 723pm,
Of course council tax has to go up in Edinburgh, they need extra money to pay for more stupid traffic hindrance and road blockade schemes – or as they call it ‘spaces for
touristspeople’@ASA make sure you let your feelings be known by taking part in the current ScotGov council tax increase proposal consultation.
A cause for cautious optimism nae doobt!
But I think the time for an organised rebellion with significant MPs and MSPs moving to Alba or another group (ISP?) is not now.
I think they should wait until the SNP have a bad Westminster result and then go. Humza will be at his weakest and with the SNP in the Doldrums (literally) the initiative will be with the Alba Partisans.
So a possible timeline for a pro- independence victory at Holyrood:
October 2024: Westminster election and SNP lose 15-20 seats
November 2024 Leading SNP Figures move to ALBA
Spring 2025 Alex Salmond becomes President of ALBA, and Ash Regan becomes ALBA leader in the Scottish Parliament
Summer 2025. More SNP MPs defect to ALBA
May 2026: ALBA win more seats than SNP and offer coalition 🙂
Game on!
“history will be unmerciful if they don’t seize it.”
History can wait, but I am totally unmerciful to the likes of Regan and Cherry now and have been for quite a while.
He is hoping to stand for the SNP after “clarification” in October.
“Clarification” or not, it is clear to any genuine independence supporter that the SNP has been corrupted beyond redemption.
I don’t trust MacNeil either and I wonder what folks here will be saying after he does an Erdogan in October.
Angus not happy with the SNP’s plans to achieve Independence, but what’s his alternative plan? It’s easy to criticise.
The curse of gentrification.
You didn’t think when the peasants were forced out that the peasant prices that would stay? Awww, bless.
Hike it up. The English beer tents won’t pay for themselves you know..
A number of people here speculating, with a degree of optimism, that some SNP MSP’s/MP’s will defect to Alba at some future time.
I seriously hope that the Alba leadership will refuse to entertain them should they attempt to do so. Why would you want to take on board individuals who have done the sum total of hee haw for years to further the cause of Independence? I believe that they have however done very well for themselves financially whilst sitting on their arses.
Talk is cheap. Change takes a bit of effort.
Eric
He’s said for yrs.
Plan B. Use Holyrood elections.
Geri, let’s see how you would feel if your council tax is jacked up by 17.5%. Still happy?
This is going to be a scattergun comment. A lot from above to address, some observations:
Regarding Angus MacNeil. I don’t know the man at all. While I cautiously congratulate his letter, is that really the best he can do? Uninspiring wording and worryingly late to (leave) the party. The SNP long ago ceased to have anything approaching a credible plan for independence. As some posters suggest, this belated action has more than a whiff of self preservation about it. I can save him a bit of time now and tell him now that the SNP will have as much of a plan for indy after October as they do now & have had for years. They’re gone. Let go. Move on. So whats it really going to be Angus?
My job regularly takes me all over Scotland including Orkney & the Western Isles. It gives me a broader understanding of these places than most people I know in the central belt. I’m totally for independence but when I’m in Stornoway or Kirkwall my thoughts are ‘no way should Edinburgh be telling this lot whats best for them’. When we get indy (it’s inevitable), it’s essential Portree isn’t dictated to from Inverness and Bowmore is not ruled from Edinburgh.
As a quick sidestep, I was told recently on Islay that last year, the UK exchequer received £280-300m in whisky tax from Islay alone. They got back about £5m. You should see the state of the roads in Bowmore right now (I cannot substantiate the figures, local hearsay, but the roads are shocking).
Orkney. I was in Kirkwall for the recent Scotland v Georgia qualifier watching the match in the only bar in town showing the game. It was a staunch Scottish supporting crowd by any measure. Loads of Scotland tops. Massive cheers at the goals. No Norway tops, norse languages or lamentations that Scotland’s likely qualification would come at Erling Haaland’s expense. They appeared pretty Scottish and proudly so. How that translates to political support is more complicated.
The headline reporting around ‘Orcadian cessation’ has been quite amusing. Mostly self sufficient why shouldn’t they discuss if the current method of governance is best? Why shouldn’t anyone be entitled to? So the Britnat media with a Scottish indy shadow hanging over it has to hype and distort it like they’re fucking off to Norway. I bet they don’t.
Mainland Scots might not know that what we’d call ‘the mainland’, Orcadians refer to it as ‘Scotland’. The biggest island in the Orkney islands is called “Mainland”. So they are Scottish, they support Scotland, but Scotland is still a wee boat journey away!!! As I said, not straightforward. Regarding the Viking/Pictish heritage. Is any of that really relevant? We’re woefully ignorant of our history in Scotland. The Norse influence was massive 800-1200 years ago. But before that the Picts. Before that the Romans. Before that…???? Check out the Ness of Brodgar which I think will usurp the mind blowingly impressive Heart of Neolithic Orkney for our historical understanding of the lands we now call Scotland.
Regarding Skye. If you speak to a resident, it’s about 50/50 if you’ll hear a Scottish or English accent. My last visit was 3 English to 2 Scottish. Dont think Ive ever heard gaelic there in roughly 400 visits.
Outer Hebrides. Almost always hear gaelic at some point when I’m there. Still very traditional in many ways eg crofting, peat cutting. Get plenty of Scottish vibes, but also UK/British, not averse to a union flag in Lewis. A lot of Rangers fanaticism.
Thanks if you’ve read til the end!!!
Eric
Also, it was SNP policy that a majority of seats won was a defacto plebiscite to trigger instant negotiations for independence. That was something even Thatcher recognised as legit & Salmond utilised himself with the 2011 elections that delivered indyref 2014. Angus plan B was a return to that policy.
Sturgeon, the narcissist, refused to stick to the SNPs own policy with her numerous unused mandates & managed to turn her own policy toxic with the fear mongers up in arms about a plebiscite elections. It was their own policy lol!! But Sturgeons flying monkies turned it completely toxic. Proving SNP was Britnat captured even way back then..
Dear Angus,
WTF kept you?
Yours aye,
RK
“Eric says:
12 July, 2023 at 9:12 pm
Angus not happy with the SNP’s plans to achieve Independence,”
And what plans are those, eh, Eric? Go on… enlighten us.
Confucius say: One could always sell one’s expensive extra house located abroad if one feels the taxes it attracts are unbearable.
FFS, the council tax increase hasn’t even been implemented yet and the whining from NuEnglish has already started.
Is someone finally going to have a light bulb moment and begin to understand what it feels like not having the government and policies they want.
Now maybe try considering and acknowledge how Scots have felt since halfway through last century and I might just begin to consider giving a flying fuck!
Frazerio
I read to the end. Domestic problems exist because we’re living under the conditions of the union.
Pocket money.
The whisky will be right or even much higher. Once it’s transported south, for export or sale, the revenues are England’s revenues & Scotland can piss off.
The question of our independence shouldn’t be tied to domestic shit. The question is should we become an independent Country?; Yes/No.
Because domestic policy & the current political party of the day can & will go every few yrs. Independence will be permanent.
@Geri
Sturgeon surely comproimised (kompromat), effectively taken out of the game, if she was ever in it.
Re whisky revenues et al, we need to document it all and tot it hp. Inform and educate, to combat the colonial too wee, too poor, too stupid.
It is difficult to see who is most deluded; WoS stalwarts here (excepting “A Scot Abroad) who can’t grasp reality, and who seem to believe that MI5 runs your pretendy council, or SNP numpties who have added disturbing sexual interests and learning difficulties. Good grief – you think Scotland could be run fairly and efficiently with the fantasists here and in the SG?.
e.g. David Hannah says: 12 July, 2023 at 7:07 pm
“Council taxes going up. 22 per cent it says in the news”. What do you expect when you vote for the SNP? Duh!
JockMcT
Aye, I have my doubts she was ever in it too.
Scotland had Westminster by the short & curlies after the NO vote promising Devo max, near federalism, the strongest parliament in the history of man – she came out those negotiations with road signs FFS! *Smacks head*
So 2015 GE &2016 was the prime time to call indy & she blew that too..
It’s obvious she was a Britnat. Ticking along & keeping us on the road to nowhere.
Re Whisky
Ash Regan proposed that too. Scotland to start keeping its own records & accounts. (interview with McKenna)
The membership rejected her too so the whole party is captured, imo. It needs ejected from Holyrood & WM as soon as possible.
Britnats: Use yer tax raising powers!!
Scotland: But if we use those to raise money – Westminster deducts it from our pocket money the following year. We’d need to cut services or increase taxes?!!
Britnats: Use it! Use it! Use it!!
Scotland: Okay. If yer sure…
Britnats: WTF!!! My council tax is going up! Fckn SNPEEE!!! It’s not fair SNPEEE! Run a country eh? SNPEEE! Do something SNPEEE! Help SNPEE!
Scotland: I told you WM would cut our pocket money.
Britnats: oh – there you go, blaming Westminster! Fk you SNPEEE!
Lol – doh! The constant angst of Unionists in denial of exactly how our pocket money works.
Well Brendan Angus MacNeil who after trying hard for so long has now made it crystal clear. The SNP are no good for independence
Nor are they any good for the communities that Angus Brendan MacNeil represents.
Nor are they any good for the Hebridean community that Angus Brendan MacNeil represents. An SNP party that wanted to shut down fishing and destroy the fragile communities that have rely on fishing.
And SNP that has utterly failed to provide lifeline ferry services to the Islands.
An SNP that support ever more land Scottish land ownership in the hands of billionaire super rich and their offshore ownership structures.
And an SNP that has no end of effort promoting trans rights where male rapists can request to be housed in women’s prisons and where the government has spent a fortune rewriting policies and procedures requiring our teachers to teach our primary children about a jar of Nuttella and a banana, and how this is natural and right.
MacNeil has had enough. He knows the SNP are Death Alley and that Humza and the clowns are too stupid to care as they bury a once great party.
But the movement is not dead. Good men and women can leave the SNP and stand on an independence ticket whilst the sleaze balls can wither and die. as they absolutely will.
So absolutely yes, I see MacNeil’s move as the start of the realignment of the independence vote. Putting Scotland First is a vote winner and frankly who needs the SNP wasters.
has failed to provide lifeline services to the islands communities. A party in government and no good for the Hebrides. And he’s absolutely right. Shut the fishing down, fuck the local fishing communities, fuck the need for lifeline ferries, to cite a few glaring examples. Why would you now vote SNP when the action is all about a woke Asian focussed on the promotion of perversion. Third place in the recent by election tells you how anti white, pro trans, Westminster fan boy and his continuity party are going.
Angus is a WINGS READER and has attended with his Daughter a Wings night out in Dows .
Well done Angus I wish You all the best .
Wishes I hadn’t googled Bananas & Nutella.
FFS!! My eyes!!
They’ve lost the friggin plot to think this was acceptable teaching. Pupils can leave with low literacy skills but as long as they have a master’s in anal sex there’ll always be a job in the sex industry.
Another mad policy from the porno obsessed Greens.
still with the Orkney shite (“what currency will they use – show me the money”) – I had thought last week’s mischief making of PLACES JOINING OTHER PLACES had tailed off; one joke being Scotland joining Norway, and the bigger joke being Norway wanting fuckall to do with either Scotland or Orkney : “what do we need you for?” – but we didn’t take this idea to the max, we didn’t properly flog this dead horse.
thought experiment :
if the UK is the MOST SUCCESSFUL POLITICAL UNION in all of history with myriad benefits of better together and
pooing and shiting (pooling and sharing, shurely)
– then why doesn’t little rishi offer terms to the norwegs to join in?
all above board and kosher fashion, fully democratic on a “one man, one vote” basis for that is the gold standard
then there is the high levels of multiculturalism and diversity of the modern britain; does norway realise how achingly white it is?
oslo could be defended by the new super nuke
london’s skyscrapers could double in size
the golden triangle will get a hyperloop
the norweg sovereign wealth fund could be profitably invested in the city, that financial powerhouse
makes the billion year contracts of scientology look value for money (that, at least, has an exit clause)
– if such an enterprise resulted in the greatest act of sabotage to the norwegian and his country and so very OBVIOUSLY
then why does anyone think it did ANYTHING FOR SCOTLAND ?
and this shows up the anglo and his narcissistic exceptionalism – if that offer was made seriously to a norwegian he would likely blank-stare at you … then start laughing uncontrollably …
– the englishman would be offended; surely britain is great, shaped the modern world, is respected, punches above its weight, a great place to do business …
but to the norwegian the UK is a poverty ridden shithole, propped up by what they steal from Scotland and launder from the rest of the world, with delusions of grandeur of a past long gone, fat women with too much makeup, shitty food, overloaded with a bizarre self love and determination not to speak anyone elses language; costume dramas as culture and costume drama as high politics, a political class shaped by buggery in the “public” schools whose main hobby becomes molesting kids in orphanages protected by special branch …
“what the hell do we need you for?”
Confused
LMAO! Bravo!
Places joining other places..
*Buckles with laughter*
Confused@ 12:52
From day to day you just get better.
It’s the denouement of the SNP, sadly. It’s worse than any of us currently understand. Worse is still to come. I don’t take any satisfaction out of witnessing it, but they don’t represent any of us. The people who write in here are honest Nationalists. I don’t just now agree with them but I have respect for their honestly held views. That is the mark of a democracy and I have no trouble with that. I have watched Sturgeon and Swinney for years and I knew that it was always going to end like this. The speed of it has surprised me, but that’s all. By the way my party, the Labour Party, are exactly the same. Neither will recover because once you get involved and get caught, it is over.
You do still hear Gaelic on Skye, and whoever said you don’t is talking pish. You just need to know the right places and people. I mean, have you never heard of Sabhal Mor Ostaig (the big barn of Ostaig)?? But you still hear it all over. Folk tend not to use it so much if they know folk are tourists, or are visitors, that’s all.
Of course the Island is overwhelmed with tourists, but local folk are also coining it in, charging huge sums to desperate tourists, for a night in a council house bedroom! All quite official of course…cough, cough.
I’m not saying it is a good thing, since the days of the bridge, I can see massive changes, with lots of English folk moving there, and as one local worker who deals with the public put it to me, they have bad manners. They come up for the peace, beauty and tranquility, then moan that their isn’t a motorway, or fight to get commercial flights from London to Broadford airport, and so on.
And do tell me why every person from England who moves to Skye, has to open a candle making shop! Jeezo, they must make more candles on the Isle of Skye than anywhere else in the known universe
One person put it to me there, that the new folk don’t have the island mentality, and could be pretty ignorant of Scottish and Skye traditions. There is some truth in that. Not all, but some.
As for the nonsense getting spouted about orkney or Shetland leaving Scotland, and not wanting to be ruled from either London or Edinburgh, well they have been running with that piffle since I was a boy. Sure, even Glaswegians say they don’t want to be run from Edinburgh. Nah, in reality every place in Scotland would have some gripe or another with rule from London, Glasgow or Aberdeen – or even, heaven forbid, Portree!
Folk should wise up, that this is the britnat way to prevent a country removing English colonial rule. It is called divide and conquer. We see their trail of nonsense in many of their former colonies all over the world, India and Ireland being the best known examples of partition imposed from England, to destroy what they could not keep.
Please, folk, stop feeding this divisive pish. It is about Scotland as a nation, a country, breaking free from English colonial rule from London. Do not fall for their divisive games.
Of course once Scotland is independent, the issues of Island economies will get properly addressed, but things like the money coming from Islay distilling, is NOT under control of Edinburgh. Only independence for Scotland can change these things.
When you indulge this divisive pish, you pare playing the Britnat game. If Shetland went it alone, it wouldn’t get ALL the oil, as unionist liars state. As an enclave, it would be entitled to the sea bed within a twelve mile radius around its shores, and not one inch more. It wouldn’t suddenly overnight inherit the North Sea, and all Scottish territorial waters!!
Stop falling for the unionist divisive lies. I thought everybody had finally understood all this in 2014.
Yes, the SNP is buggered.
The sepraratistas are merely fractured and squabbling like rats in a sack.
Meanwhile, Scotland struggles along.
It’s all a bit sad, really.
@Confused says:13 July, 2023 at 12:52 am
determination not to speak anyone elses language
That phrase leaped out at me.
Surely, a determination not to speak anybody elses language is a corner stone of the “Scotland as Colony” trope?
You know what I mean. The idea that we will never be free until we are all speaking Scots again.
Geri @ 00.26
I truly hate to say this, however it was the SNP’s Mr Swinney who was Education Secretary when this was approved for use in the teaching aids handbook for school use, as I recall.
It created quite an outcry at the time, and there was a vid on Youtube of, I believe, Richard Lucas possibly confronting Swinney at a public meeting and Swinney saying he had no issues at all in defending the policy.
I’m certainly not suggesting that the make believe “Greens” in the our administration aren’t right into this type of sick indoctrination for children, however Ms Sturgeon’s right hand man was publicly up for this years ago.
@Geri says:13 July, 2023 at 12:26 am
That’s an absolute belter of a post, Geri.
I know I have criticised your low literary skills in the past, so mindful of your post, I will try very hard to not do that again.
Confused at 1252am,
Haha, very well said. Your last paragraph needs re-quoting, as it is a gem of reality the English and britnats will NEVER recognise.
QUOTE “..but to the norwegian the UK is a poverty ridden shithole, propped up by what they steal from Scotland and launder from the rest of the world, with delusions of grandeur of a past long gone, fat women with too much makeup, shitty food, overloaded with a bizarre self love and determination not to speak anyone elses language; costume dramas as culture and costume drama as high politics, a political class shaped by buggery in the “public” schools whose main hobby becomes molesting kids in orphanages protected by special branch “
@Robert Louis says:13 July, 2023 at 7:04 am
Just curious I guess.
If the part of Scotland you live in succeeds in throwing off the oppressive, racist, colonialist yoke, why would you care if parts of Scotland you don’t live in follow a different path?
Specifically, why would you be anxiously drawing lines around the sea bed to see who gets the oil, gas, windfarms, fish, etc?
OK, I’ll answer my own question. It’s because for you, Indy is all about the money.
So, we can see that this harping back to ancient guff is just ignored when parts of Scotland have a different bit of inconvenient ancient guff to harp back to.
And we can see that this harping on about colonialism and freedom is just ignored when parts of Scotland have an inconvenient history of Scottish colonialism – their freedom is not to be granted – end of.
Don’t take this personally, Bob. I am quite an advocate of chasing the Indy money myself. However, as a democrat first and foremost, I won’t chase it to the extent of forcing other parts of Scotland into a new country they don’t want.
In short, Scotland is a hybrid nation, with distinctive regions, including the Highlands, Lowlands, Borders, Western Islands, Orkney & Shetland. Post-Indy, if Scotland democratically wishes to balkanise, that’s fine by me.
Geri says:
13 July, 2023 at 1:52 am
Confused
” LMAO! Bravo!
Places joining other places..
*Buckles with laughter* ”
ABruce says:
13 July, 2023 at 5:24 am
Confused@ 12:52
” From day to day you just get better. ”
Agreed .
Our man’s skewering of the monkeys with keyboards on here n elsewhere is a hilarious delight : combined with the incisiveness of his perceptions , he is one of WOS’ finest contributors .
Do you have literary ambitions , C ? Your writing def merits wider exposure
Angus may have lit the fuse, but no dynamite behind it.
He needs to get more than 50% of the voters to vote Yes, how will he achieve that?
Answers on a postcard.
As Stu says, those left in the SNP who are genuinely and not just notionally pro-indy must follow Angus McNeil’s lead and leave that wasted party.
I was just reading about the BBC presenter there. The Police have carried-out an investigation, took them about a week, and decided that there was no criminality involved. Just tragic outcomes all round.
I’m just wondering why that wasn’t the case with Alex Salmond? You know, how long did the Police take to investigate that and did Salmond not tell them that there was no criminality involved?
I’m not defending Salmond or anything like that, but the analogy is obvious, isn’t it?
@Eric says:13 July, 2023 at 8:06 am
He needs to get more than 50% of the voters to vote Yes, how will he achieve that?
Simples, Eric, show us the fucking money!
It’s just Scottish exceptionalism to claim that uniquely amongst all the peoples of the world, we are immune to the lure of cold, hard, disposable, cash.
It was James Carville who famously said, “It’s the economy, stupid!” Carville was an elections strategist for then-Governor Bill Clinton, and he helped Clinton beat President George H.W. Bush in 1992 in the midst of a recession that left many Americans out of work and in debt.
I know, that’s the evil, Satanic empire and all that Student Grant guff, but the principle remains true, even today, and even in Yousaf’s brave new Scotland.
Suing the Scottish government, in particular SNP, for misrepresentation of their promise of a referendum, is the first step to self-determination, by the people of Scotland.
The above class action, a petition to the court, to empower authentic Scottish Parliament to reconvene from Westminster to Edinburgh.
The same article of Scots Law, used by Joanna Cherry, to condemn Boris Johnson’s unlawful prorogation of Parliament, could be cited to address the current denial of democracy.
The only rightful address of the above action, is sanction by the court, to allow unfettered access to democratic process.. in the shape of a referendum, to confirm the case for a true Scottish Parliament!
Whether the above is definition of The Claim of Right, or not, is incidental to the legal process, in international law and the given right to self-determination.
“He needs to get more than 50% of the voters to vote Yes, how will he achieve that?”
Eric,
We’re all part of trying to get Unionists to look in the mirror, we’re all part of trying to get Unionists to wake up, we’re all part of trying to deprogramme the nonsense in people’s heads about making our own choices.
Eric, how would you go about convincing people to be captain of a ship called Destiny?
Capt Yossarian @ 08.23
One of the big differences could be that the investigation carried out into Mr Salmond was by a politicised, national, state Police with the Lord Advocate an SNP supporter sitting in the Administration’s Cabinet.
It’s a supreme irony that it was Mr Salmond & Mr MacKaskill who were responsible for creating the political weapon which Poileas Alba has now apparently become, in the interests of saving money.
I pass no comment on my private views of the trial presided over by Lady Dorrian and the evidence led by the Crown.
Lobert Louis, by coining it in do you mean making a living?
Ignorant twat.
“I’m not defending Salmond or anything like that.”
What are you not defending him from?
Angus is well out of it, trust me. These proposed council tax changes for band E and above are an electoral suicide note.
Talk about being totally tone deaf. Wow. The SNP are going to get massacred IMHO. People are talking about 2017 as a comparison but I think it is going to be far worse.
All of this arsehole behaviour is really starting to stack up, it is piling up, and there is a simmering anger brewing… when it ignites it is going be explosive.
And yet again their neo marxist roots are showing, clobbering the people already paying the most. The Greens’ incompetent and tedious little pawprints are all over this.
And for what? People are already paying a ridiculous amount in council tax for some of the shitiest services known to man. I personally loathe my local council with a purple passion. I’d scrap the lot of them.
John Main,
You really aren’t interested in the “fucking money” are you?
You know it’s a fact that Westminster is borrowing more and more money on our behalf, drowning us in more and more debt that there is absolutely no hope or intention of repaying.
You have been shown where Scotland’s money has disappeared and is currently disappearing to, yet you are wilfully looking the other way, only yesterday, I think it was that IanB posted a clip of John Jappy telling us Scotland was being robbed by Westminster.
If sovereignty costs money, what national debt is an independent Scotland allowed to have in your eyes and what national debt is the UK allowed to have before they are stripped of their sovereignty. Or France, or Portugal, or Greece or country 404?
I’m going to post up one last item for today and it’s about Debt versus GDP.
In my opinion, one of the best Chancellors we had was Philip Hammond. He, by the way, stopped PFI. We in Scotland have kept it running and that is part of the cause of our financial black-hole.
Hammond worked off spread-sheets (does anyone think Shona Robison even knows what a spreadsheet is?) and he brought the annual deficit down until it was almost zero.
That is what someone needs to do now. It takes a lot of government joined-up effort to do that and you need to be good. I cannot see any evidence of that being a priority in Scotland. I wish that were not the case, but it is.
Once Debt becomes a shrinking proportion of GDP, then you can start to relax. The banking crash, Covid and all the rest of it has meant that the UK has lost sight of that, but it beginning to re-focus again now.
Scotland is not doing that and that is a problem.
The UK has always had debt. It used to stand at around 1Trillion, which is a thousand Billion. It was then doubled due to Fred Goodwin and Co.
Captain Yossarian,
Who do you believe to be in charge of Scotland’s purse strings?
@Mac 9:17am succinctly put. Two certainties in life death and taxes. It’s not the fact the council tax is going up (only way is up from here on in) the size of the proposed increase and it is 110% to cover up government incompetence.The amount of Scottish taxpayers money the SNP/Greens have wasted is atrocious how much money earmarked for councils has had to be diverted in the budget to support Ferguson marine for eg. almost £500m for two ferries being built in Inverclyde and now we all have to pay the price whilst they ride off into the sunset having totally fucked everything up.
Seeing the calibre of person that Sturgeon surrounded herself I predicted the SNP government would go from one cock-up to the next. But this was supercharged when the SNP elected to go into a coalition with the Greens.
I have never seen a more incompetent government than what we currently have in Scotland. They could not run a bath. They are absolutely shocking.
There is nothing they will do that will not be some form of mess or disaster. It is now going to be everything they do. Wall to wall, top to bottom incompetence.
And that core incompetence is wedded to a raft of poisonous and fundamentally stupid woke ideologies that result in a Kafkaesque world, where everything costs a fortune and nothing works.
I know someone recently took her toddler to A&E with a suspected broken toe… 9 hours to be seen. WTF?
Crazy inflation, crazy energy bills…but hey-ho let’s just force through massive and unjustified increases in council tax to cover our incompetence and stupidity.
These council tax changes will hit 703,741 homes. Think about it…
https://archive.is/YQhwL
Nicola Sturgeon is 100% to blame for all of this. This is her ‘legacy’.
The time between now and the SNP getting ousted is going to seem like an eternity when you have a government this bad. Everything they touch will be a disaster plus their policies themselves are going to be fundamentally horrendous as well.
By the time we get to the next election… the damage done is going to be enormous. It is already happening at an astonishing rate.
I knew they were going to be bad but this is surpassing my worst expectations by some margin. And how many years of this do we potentially have before the next election? Wow… bad, bad news for the ordinary people of Scotland.
@ Captain Yossarian
What if you considered using the term fully empowered regionalist rather than nationalist, if the latter is somehow too negative a term for you.
Coming from my engineering background I surveyed the dire political state / State we are in with a view of how it could be repaired. I considered numerous factors such as the significant population number disparity with their differing political outlooks, along with asset and resource management and associated trading requirements, plus numerous other competing aspects between the two Kingdoms that form this supposedly equal Union.
I’m naturally more of an anti-corruptionist and sensible policy kind of person than I am a hardcore nationalist, but I realise that the only way to begin to address the issues that have blighted us and our land for far too long is to have far more direct control over our elected representatives.
But this just isn’t possible within the current UK framework as we can so easily observe that the politicians are just taking the utter piss.
Stu created a sidebar of images at the top of the page on righthand side with The Notional groundhog day headlines just stringing folk along year after year, yet it never comes to fruition to resolve the constitutional elephant in the room. Instead we get the likes of genderwoowoo, flawed deposit return scheme, flawed national care scheme, flawed ferry procurement, etc etc.
Such crap administration means many don’t want to vote for the people and Parties that created this dire local Scottish situation, but yoons will then rock up saying if SNP don’t get over as certain threshold then Indy is dead for X amount of years.
That may suit the yoons on some superficial argument level, but importantly it doesn’t some how nullify the similar but much larger aspect that significantly more bad policy and corruption happens in Westminster under London Rule.
Scotland cannot resolve that larger UK issue due to the aforementioned 10 to 1 democratic advantage the Kingdom of England has over Scotland that basically locks Scotland into being a passenger in UK rather than a driver.
As an engineer you should be able to assess a project and work out if a course of action will ever result in a satisfactory end product. Embarking on a futile exercise is just plain stupid.
I suggest that as Scotland hasn’t had the fully empowered government it wanted in well over half a century it proves that we are politically compromised, and this situation will continue to allow the exploitation of our people and assets and resources with little if any benefit to Scotland until we return to self-governing status.
@Breastplate says:13 July, 2023 at 9:17 am
You have been shown where Scotland’s money has disappeared and is currently disappearing to
Am I arguing about that? I don’t fucking think so. I have stated plenty of times that I don’t doubt the existence of the money, assets, revenue streams, etc. etc.
What I constantly bang on about is what is the mechanism to legally and predictably prise all of the above from the reluctant hands of the current owners and into mine. Simplified sufficiently so that it can be printed on a T shirt or on a bus shelter, so that every Scot in the land knows how it will work, and will vote accordingly.
Dan in his own inimitable way yesterday gave us a clue: just take the fucking money. So did the UDI nutjobs.
Soz an all that, but I am not convinced that’s a workable process in the real world.
But we don’t have to hypothesise. We can carefully continue to watch the unfolding situation in 404 and see if it works for President P.
I’m interested in the money, BP, and apathetic about the ancient guff and the other intangibles. Maybes I’m in a minority of one.
What you have to consider is why the focus on the ancient guff and the other intangibles has failed to move the pointer on the Indy dial for a decade. Maybes time to abandon a failed strategy and adopt a new one.
Show us the fucking money!
@Breastplate (9.17) –
Thanks for the mention of the Jappy clip. It deserves to be seen far and wide.
The link is copied again, below, for those who may wish to see it.
Quite mind-boggling, and you have to wonder why Alba don’t make more of this given that it was Salmond who kept digging for the truth. And what an answer he finally got – turned out that from 1979 to 1997, Scotland had contributed approx £27,000,000,000 more to the UK Treasury than it ever got back.
And here we are a further 26 years on, no sign of that pesky oil drying up anytime soon. What must that figure be now?
Aside from anything else, it’s really moving to see Jappy, an old man in 2014, doing his best to summarise a life’s work in a crie de coeur with calm and dignity. Four years later he was dead.
And we’ll never get to the bottom of what they did with all that ‘bonanza’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB4bmJmOeNc
Aye John, whatevs.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775035
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775040
https://wingsoverscotland.com/penny-royalty/comment-page-1/#comment-2775057
A that last link had CCGT creating 25% of GB Grid power, it’s currently generating 40%.
Den, that does not surprise me regarding the ferries and the councils being underfunded as a result.
I read that for the amount of money that has been spent on two ferries that are still not ready if they had went with the yard in the Netherlands they would have had 10 or 12 ferries in working service by now. I think it was 12… it is shocking.
Those ferries by themselves are an absolute scandal and it reeks of huge amounts of corruption and its constant companion, incompetence.
It is just everywhere you look at this point and these are not small things.
And we have a SNPG living in cloud cuckoo land. Piloted by a political version of Stockton Rush, an incompetent, vastly over confident woke berk.
The implosion is inevitable.
It is not a question of IF but WHEN.
@Yossarian 10.30 am
“It was then doubled due to Fred Goodwin and Co.”
The “and Co” which you coyly refer to includes Gordon Brown and the Labour party which applied “light touch” regulation to the banks (as well as Hospital Trusts.
Light touch in practice meant no regulation so the banks were free to engage in the ponzi scheme of “sub prime lending” (euphemism for “shit lending”).
When it all went to hell, Brown bailed out the banks, making the largest transfer of public funds to the private sector for decades or ever without any debate. The deal being done with only the involvement of the banks, over Baltis.
We, the plebs, paid for it. Then the banks were permitted still to run unregulated, fixing exchange rates and Libor, getting off with relatively small fines instead of jail time.
This all opened the door for the Tory shit to continue their Thatcherite experiments with social engineering under austerity. First, demonising the disabled, then punishing them with sanctions.
Your party, Labour, is a neoliberal shit party worthy only of contempt.
In other news…
https://news.sky.com/story/westminster-accounts-powerful-group-of-tory-mps-scrutinised-by-expenses-watchdog-after-sky-news-investigation-12919851
Sky News also reporting in the article that the SNP Research Group has received nearly £1.5m in public funds since the last UK GE. To do what exactly? Try to figure out if a Woman can have a penis?
John Main,
Nobody here can show you the money. But you know that already. So why bother trying to claim the moral high ground with a position that’s saying unless independence is 10x better then it’s best not to do it.
Until the spigot to London is turned off, nobody really knows how much money the country will stop haemorrhaging. Sure you can add up all the value coming out of the North Sea and add up all the Kwh coming out of the turbines and so on. At least that’s a start but the real money, the stuff you want to see, only comes online once the refineries and high value medical plastics factories have been built; when the power inter-connectors to Denmark and the Netherlands have been laid and the transport connections from Norway to Spain, down the west coast are in place; when people start repopulating the islands; the housing stock is being fixed and the real economy, not the extractive one we have now, gets going.
So you can whine and moan about the money, but your concern trolling simply betrays your lack of imagination. Doing thing for ourselves is all about what can be, with work and determination, and not what it is today with a Saltire replacing the Butcher’s Apron. It might all turn out to be a massive clusterfuck (quite likely when we have the well-being economy shoved down our throats) but, as the Americans are fond of saving, it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees. We all know which group you belong to.
I should imagine he will “be standing at the next election in Na j-Eileanan an lar on an independence platform” but as an independent candidate on the ballot paper.
Republicofscotland says:
12 July, 2023 at 4:58 pm
Craig Murray is spot on when he says this below.
Whereas the reliance by the UK Supreme Court on the criteria of the Federal Court of Canada in the Quebec judgment, over fifty years old and superseded by the cold hard fact of over 23 non-colonial secessions since, is simply laughable.
————————–
It was the snp that submitted this to the SC, CM is wrong.
@Stuart MacKay says:13 July, 2023 at 10:49 am
“Nobody here can show you the money. But you know that already. it’s better to die on your feet than live on your knees. We all know which group you belong to”
That’s me telt, eh?
Fine Stuart, I’ll awa and work on just having faith.
[gasp] Just [Hnnngg] Have [Rrrrr] Faith [pant pant]
Word in your shell-like though. Alf will be along in a mo to accuse you of racism and colonialism, dissing a Sovereign Scot like that.
30 seconds on Google tells me there are 4.2 mill Scots voters, no doubt split across Sovereign and New categories. So upwards of 2 mill for you still to persuade. Try to do it without insulting them – you may get better results.
On the plus side “Just Have Faith” works on a T-shirt. If you or anybody else can flog 2 mill of these, you will have seen all the money you will ever need.
@John Main
If my understanding is correct, a substantial amount of the fucking money appears to be in the hands of young boys (and their lawyers!) caught messing around without parental consent – boys younger yet than anyone Ghislaine Maxwell is in jail for introducing (and that with their parents blessing no less!)
Thankfully this was not rumoured to be the case in the Salmond, Mackay, or McDonald shenanigans (where early doxing of the target/ scapegoat sadly denied Lineker, Vine, etc, the opportunity to exclude themselves from suspicion)* but the relative higher management bias in connection with each does raise significant concern at the possibility that Mi 6 has been penetrated in more sensitive areas than hitherto considered healthy in either Kingdom (a paradox in itself given contemporary fascism vis a vis personal health and hygiene)
On topic
Bravo Angus B MacNeil !
*Potential misappropriation of public funds to disproportionately benefit alleged and anonymous victims notwithstanding
John Main
Sorry, I don’t do faith. With ingenuity and determination Scotland in large part dragged the West out of the shackles of faith. We already know we have what it takes. All that is needed is the opportunity.
It’s a pity you just don’t trust your countrymen not to make a hash of it. You’d rather sit in your cell because you’re too frightened to see if the door in unlocked.
Sven 7:09
I did some looking. Apparently it’s Denton Queer theory promoted by Stonewall & is compulsory teaching in all schools for weans starting as young as 7 yrs. The Nutella class is 13/14 yr olds. Teachers are given *secret* guidance notes & they’re even worse. Guidance such as don’t tell the parents, direct students to porn hub for further homework, promoting the Nutella experiment to young girls as a form of birth control etc. Any teacher uncomfortable with this (grooming ffs) can step aside & TIE can step in & do it for them. They have agents on 90k + annual salary. Any student who is uncomfortable in class should be taken aside & be *educated* on the error of their ways. (Yer all the phobes/ it’s literal violence pish)
Yer right, it’s was Evans & Sturgeon who were the cheerleaders, apparently they were disappointed they weren’t given a pretendy Gold award by Stonewall for being good little soldiers & implementing it first in the UK with such gusto! Sturgeon does like her trinkets ffs! The Scottish government organisations involved in this indoctrination & perversion racket is unacceptable.
The teacher in that vid was correct. Swinney & Freeman were told to direct angry parents to the school websites to view what was being taught – but failed (rather conveniently) to mention the teacher guidance notes which are withheld from the public.
This is a drive to push pedos as just another sexual orientation & remove safeguards to children who will be introduced, indoctrinated & sexualised in schools & their parents can’t do a thing about out other than withdraw them completely.
Stuart MacKay @ 10:49 am
“John Main,Nobody here can show you the money.”
Yes, JM is on the wrong track. Polling in Northern Ireland found that over 90 per cent of those with a British identity would still reject Irish unification even if there was a financial incentive to support it. Money is therefore not the main issue in the constitutional question, the issue is one national identity, and hence our culture, language, and national consciousness.
In other words ‘No’ voters tend to mostly have a British identity/culture/language, whereas Yes voters mostly have a Scottish identity/culture/language.
People then need to consider what it is that gives a native Scot a British identity/culture/language, whilst those from rest-UK or extraction (1 million+) will tend to hold a British identity already. Here we also get into the realm of cultural/colonial assimilation in changing a national identity, which is a form of oppression.
Geri @ 11.54.
Thanks for that background info, Geri, (absolutely depressing though it is). Information is our friend.
How on earth have we arrived at this point !
Alf Baird,
people need to consider nothing that you suggest. That’s academic wankery, indulged in only by academic wankers.
They only need to think about Yes or No.
Captain Yossarian 9:30
Fantastical story you have there. Besides it being complete shite. Scotland doesn’t have any debts. It has a WM imposed shopping list.
Three things England has at its disposal
1. Every nations full revenues
2. They have a central bank
3. They’ve a treasury to grant their every wish & write cheques all day that’ll never bounce..
Scotland has pocket money & awarded a share of their debts. Magic!
Dang!! If only we returned to being an independent country eh?
Alf Baird
There is another dimension. It’s learned helplessness or they’ve simply given up trying to better themselves and do the heavy lifting for the people around them.
There’s certainly a colonial aspect to that, but that’s not the whole story. You can certainly get the same effect from local sources.
Main’s real problem is that he doesn’t want to try. He’d rather sit there throwing stones because the long slow decline of the status quo where the UK falls into putrefaction is preferable to trying to do things differently.
@Alf Baird says:13 July, 2023 at 12:05 pm
Polling in Northern Ireland found that over 90 per cent of those with a British identity would still reject Irish unification even if there was a financial incentive to support it
Sure, but that’s a different question. No pro-Indy Scot is expecting us to unify with anybody (unless they are unreconstructed, extremist EUphiles).
Are there polls to show how many would support an independent, stand-alone country of Northern Ireland, with the In and Out of the EU options also considered?
Anyway, if we rule out financial encouragements for Indy as a non-starter, we can presumably also rule out competency encouragements too. It’s unclear to me where we can go from there, i.e. what persuasive influences can be brought to bear on the Indy sceptics.
I would ask any potential responders to remember it’s not about me, it’s about a decent chunk of the 2 mill or so registered Scots voters that still need convincing.
I’d hazard a guess its the military.
Peter A Bell says:
12 July, 2023 at 1:28 pm
I always had high hopes of Angus MacNeil.
Aye, so you did.
And I bet Alba, ISP and the rest of the minnows wanting a medium brand name “bestie” currenting tiffing with his fellow troughers will be touting the same obsequious pish in his direction over the next few weeks while he’s up for grabs.
@Stuart MacKay says:13 July, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Main’s real problem is that he doesn’t want to try
Maybes aye, maybes naw.
Indy’s real problem is that it has no evolutionary route to improving the lives of ordinary Scots.
So all that is left is the revolutionary routes – Just Have Faith and jump anyway, or minority-imposed UDI.
And you’re right Stuart, Main fancies neither of these options. Too much easily accessible history about the startling lack of success of revolutionary movements poisons it for me.
I’ll sit on the fence until things improve – solid, costed, practical, pragmatic, real world policies, driven by competent, hard-working politicians and civil servants, headed up by an articulate, charismatic, inspirational leader, all democratically supported by a majority of Scots voters.
Tedious, boring and Sunday Post material I am sure, but I’m getting too old for excitement.
Frankly, what’s so fucking difficult about it anyway? Our aspirational role models in Europe manage to do this. Why can’t we?
For
John Mai opps Main (show us the money) !
Well you could start here-
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/it-s-time-to-stop-outrage-as-uk-hands-china-almost-50million-in-foreign-aid/ar-AA1dNp40?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8ab891ccd3d6479097fee9b26d24584b&ei=146
WTAF is going on. A racket if ever I’ve seen one. Now, Scotland being part of this current mob of crooks(Westmonster) have been sending China- China with the biggest GDP next to USA, sending millions of pounds in aid just makes the whole cesspit of world governing an absolute con.
Just once more so you don’t forget. This has been going on for decades. Show us the money right enough Johnny Boy!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/it-s-time-to-stop-outrage-as-uk-hands-china-almost-50million-in-foreign-aid/ar-AA1dNp40?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8ab891ccd3d6479097fee9b26d24584b&ei=146
Ireland […] will see population increases of between 10-32%
None of whom are Irish. The Irish people are rapidly being replaced and are on a trajectory to become a minority group in Ireland.
But at least they’re “independent”, eh?
Just for the shits & giggles..
All the britnats complaining about their council tax hikes.
Scotland is charged for 404s right to be an independent country lol!
UK Deducting 50 million from Scotland’s budget & slashing refugee relief payments to local authorities – the Tories had to make *tough decisions* regarding the relief effort for displaced 404s. i.e – they’ve to fck off somewhere else now or Scotland can find the shortfall – see ya!
So relax safe in the knowledge yer wee council tax hike is going to help another country in its right to self determination! Lol!
Isn’t it ironic?
** Shame those tough decisions didn’t extend to the farce of the two crowned king celebrations eh? Or the farce of Tory greed during COVID & demanding its paid back. Buckle up, we’re charged for that shit too.
Red
That’s because it’s the COUNTRY that’s gaining it’s independence.
The inhabitants can be who the hell they like.
One group on here is saying that the greens should have stuck to proper environmental policies rather than neglecting those and concentrating instead on the “woke” agenda. But it has become pretty obvious to me in the last few months that it’s really the “environmental policies” that so massively irritate the anti-SNP nats, or tartan-tories as we used to call them (even if some have from time to time sailed under a red flag), especially regarding the oily origin of the current nationalist cause.
Blaming environmentalists for the woke agenda is ridiculous. Labour, the SNP and the LidDems are as enthusiastic as the greenwashed communists running what used to be a grouping of often not very political middle-class environmentalists (i.e. did science at uni, not humanities). The group of entryists running the Green Party will likely make any deal to stay in power. Power is the communist credo. When Corbyn got in a fair chunk of comrades instantly departed to Labour.
A “proper” green party would not join an administration dedicated to keeping all the apparatus our capitalist system needs to function. They would work in communities to set up alternative systems for meeting peoples needs. At election time they would threaten maybe 5% of the vote, enough to force all the contenders to address environmental issues.
Much could be achieved that unglamorous way but such a strategy is pooh-poohed by the marxists who want to see all effort going in to “system change” (i.e. the revolution), not personal or local change to mitigate our negative effects on our life systems.
The posters claiming that the next wave of fascism will wear green clothes, like the last wave wore socialist/workers ones, may well be right. The Scottish Green Party is run by the authoritarian left and it can be difficult to draw a distinction between them and the authoritarian right in terms of the crimes they commit when in, or contending, real power.
But the ecological outlook, small is beautiful, don’t let power get concentrated into the hands of a self-serving elite, keep you energy and food supply close, is the basic defence against authoritarians whatever robes they sport on a given day. If you don’t understand the difference then maybe you are a bit Confused.
Red says:
13 July, 2023 at 1:28 pm
Ireland […] will see population increases of between 10-32%
“None of whom are Irish. The Irish people are rapidly being replaced and are on a trajectory to become a minority group in Ireland.”
Hee,hee,hee. “More irish than the Irish.”
In 1596 the Elizabethan poet Edmund Spenser (c. 1552–13 January 1599) whilst employed as part of the English administration in Ireland,[4] paraphrased the saying in his controversial treatise, A View of the Present State of Irelande. In the treatise, the characters Eudoxus and Irenius discuss how those sent over by the King of England Henry II to colonise Ireland, eventually became more Irish in outlook than the Irish themselves
…….
“Eudoxus: What is that you say, of so many as remayne Englishe of them? Why are, not they that were once English, abydinge Englishe still?
Irenius: No, for the most parte of them are degenerated and growen almost meare Irishe, yea, and more malicious to the Englishe then the very Irish them selves”[5]
John Main
I like the evolutionary vs revolutionary routes picture. You’re exactly right. There is no evolutionary route – it’s not like we’re sitting on the opposite side of the world and can slowly drift away.
Perhaps if England gets fed up with picking up the bill then we’d be asked to push off. While that might be the attitude of the man on the Clapham omnibus the leadership are fully aware of what the country does to fill the coffers so that is less likely.
Ironically Alf Baird is offering the best chance of implementing your evolutionary route. We drift culturally away sufficiently that the bond simply dissolves. That’s a possibility. If only the climate was getting colder instead of warmer. Scotland might become uninhabitable for folks from the home counties.
I think the unification of Ireland also offers a possibility of an evolutionary route. The English simply lose heart and turn introspective. Though that’s likely asking for a lot.
So, after a bit of name calling, for which I apologise, I think we actually got somewhere. The impatient want revolution because it’s fastest and the uncertains/undecideds want evolution because it offers the best chance of the wheels not coming off the bus. Interesting. Thanks.
Robert Louis, I suggest you go back to bed, then exit from the other side. Basically, in reply, what John Main said.
I did not say there are no gaelic speakers on Skye. Of course Ive heard of the gaelic college. I’m even aware they teach it in the schools. I know and have stayed with first language gaelic speakers. But not once have I heard it, specifically, 2 or more people in an independent conversation using gaelic. Not once.
Regarding me apparently being divisive and doing the Britnats work for them, my apologies, I didn’t realise that Scotland was a singular hive mind with no differences at all. My observations were clearly completely wrong and without merit.
Sarcasm aside, to be clear on my view, Scotland is a country that should govern itself. It should do so with a balanced devolved system that allows all of our glorious diversity to prosper under one collective national banner. Doing the Britnats work!!! Dont make me laugh.
Geri says:
13 July, 2023 at 1:41 pm
Red
That’s because it’s the COUNTRY that’s gaining it’s independence.
There is no such thing as a “country”.
We have our people, our nation, or we have nothing.
Dan – I would vote for a Nationalist party if it was attractive enough. No problem with that. My point though is, there is a block grant delivered to Holyrood every year. That should be spent responsibly and if there are blunders then they should be properly investigated and not covered-up. That’s democracy and when Holyrood prove that they can do that, then more powers will be delivered to them.
Everyone in Westminster knows independence is coming but the question from their perspective is the later the better.
Kicking the can down the road works for them as it allow them to undermine the Scottish economy allowing them to retain as much control as possible and at the same time securing faslane. Essentially helping them secure the best deal for them. This is why Nicolas policy is flawed and tends to suggest her and or her team have been compromised.
The SNP position is the sooner the better, they just don’t have the wit to see it.
@Captain Yossarian 2.32 pm. “My point though is, there is a block grant delivered to Holyrood every year.”
My point is that the block grant is based on population not need. Based on need we would get more. Why should we put up with handouts? Show us the money and give us back the money – oil, gas, wind, whisky.
RBS was created by Scotsmen, for the benefit of feckless Scotsmen, some of whom later ran it into the ground.
The pudgy Wee Eck was their Chief Economist ferfuxake. A very predictable outcome there.
Darling-Broon pumped Billions into that sinking ship. The British taxpayers will never get that money back.
The SNumPty gummment will never run out of other people’s money. They’ll simply shake down the people who earn money. That’s the nature of socialism and the National Socialist Partei is fundamentally nazional socialismus at heart.
Only very recently the then Finance Minister Derek Mackay increased the multiplier for band G from 1.6 to 1.95 times band D. The result was a massive 17.5% hike in Tax on the few and nothing on the many.
That is the Jean Baptiste Colbert approach to taxation. Famously the French economist and Minister of Finance under Louis XIV of France said that the “art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing”.
Time for us successful people to start hissing at the Buckfast tribe of Glasgow and Dundee!
Captain Yossarian says:
13 July, 2023 at 2:32 pm
Dan – I would vote for a Nationalist party if it was attractive enough. No problem with that. My point though is, there is a block grant delivered to Holyrood every year. That should be spent responsibly and if there are blunders then they should be properly investigated and not covered-up. That’s democracy and when Holyrood prove that they can do that, then more powers will be delivered to them.
———-
Yer Mammy and Daddy stop telling ye how tae spend yer money when ye turn 18 or even 16-17 – even then.
Aye mibbie stop spending it on useless Masp’s and crooked useless staff offices and wages along with pumping money into weird fecking cult fantasies that think Men can become Women by wearing a dress and lippy wid be a start aye!.
Well done Angus it was long overdue. He is the only politician IMO from the SNP that wants independence and I think most (not all) are just chancers.
“Scotland is charged for 404s right to be an independent country lol!”
You’d better believe it, Scots are poorer to help fund Nato’s war against the RF, the 16,000+ sanctions placed against the RF have backfired and are costing the common man and woman on the street a packet, money is being taken from everywhere to fund the international brigade aka Nato troops and weapons in 404.
Throw in the disastrous affects of Brexit, of which Sturgeon the Judas did nothing about, though she promised Scotland wouldn’t be dragged out of the EU market, and it all downhill for Scots.
As long as the foreign English government calls the shots Scots will be well and truly f*cked.
Down the union.
Angus MacNeil should be on Drivetime about 5.10-5.15, if Beattie is to be believed.
He has taken a small step. The Hysterical anti Indy Wokists will now set MI5 etc on him and trump up some charges that will eventually get thrown out of Court by a sensible Jury. No wonder the Wokists and Trans Nazis want rid of Juries.
“None of whom are Irish.”
Whataboutery pish.
The fact is the Irish government decides wo can and can’t live the RoI, whilst here in Scotland a foreign country’s, England Home Office, decides who lives in Scotland and who can’t, recently the mad dogs at the HO kept the Brain family waiting twelve years to know their fate.
This is why Scotland is being swamped by the English who are crossing the border without so much as a by your leave and putting immense pressure on our services, doctors, dentists hospitals social housing etc. To make matter worse they are voting against Scotland dissolving the union as in 2014 when 72.1% of them voted no.
They shouldn’t get a vote on constitutional matters.
No other country, not even the RoI would put up with that.
Down with the union
RoS,
you are getting more and more pathetic with every comment.
The U.K. is one nation. Unusually, of 2 countries, a Principality, and a Province. But no bother.
We don’t need anyone’s permission to move about. And Scots don’t get a say in who lives in Scotland, or decide who votes. Not since 1707, which was a new dawn for Scots, and many took full advantage.
A post in support of Angus disappears into the ether. Plenty of Unionist posts getting through. No message or indication that my post has gone into moderation. Just disappears and that’s about 12 times now over the last few months. Now I don’t swear in real life and the same for posts on social media.
Robbo 3:59
Aye & lest we forget the 600 million mitigating against a foreign countries toxic policies from a government we continually don’t vote for.
This constant excuse from britnats to keep the middle man while instructing Scotland to do/prove/show better with the loose change it is given is surely a fcking wind-up after all these yrs?!!
***
England spends less on services = Scotland receives less to spend on services.
England spends less on its NHS = Scotland receives less for it’s NHS.
England controls immigration.
England IS A PUNISHMENT SCHEME to devolution.
You want extra Scotland? You pay for it. But if you do:
WARNING! – what you raise WILL BE DEDUCTED from your own fcking money next year.
WARNING! Don’t, under any circumstances, go OVER budget. You are forbidden!!
Scotland does NOT have an economy, any meaningful tax raising powers, money down the sofa, a treasury, a central bank, that many nobody who racks up trillions in debt & keeps writing the cheques.
*Must do better, Scotland!
Awa an shite! Ya eejits.
The MAYOR of London gets more to spend than Scotland does & the CITY of London has more MPs (71) than a whole COUNTRY does. (56)
What a joke. Let England live with their own revenues & we’ll live with ours with us both being independent.
The SNP is dead but the democratic deficits & the want for indy have not. WM had it’s chance in 2014 to wise up & feckin behave itself when it won the NO vote on a stack of lies. It reneged on it before the last counts were even returned.
Scotland in a country. Fully entitled to it’s OWN revenues. Fully entitled to end the Union. We don’t want or require handouts with the constant strings attached routine while eejits tell us we must try harder with scraps.
& Btw, under no circumstances will Scotland agree to become annexed for England’s MOD. That is non-negotiable.
George..
I’ve had that too.
Posting links (I cannie master it lol) are whisked away by gremlins.
& certain words cause posts to go into moderation.
It’s a minefield a times & annoying – along with the looooong pause on posting.
Scotland does not need to negotiate.
We were chucked out the treaty of union in 1707.
Scotland is under no obligation to negotiate except for the reparations due to it from England since westminster chucked Scotland out the treaty and colonised Scotland under a false flag,
When the digital history recorded penny drops and Scots get up of their knees,
There is no need for UDI or to be a successor state,
Westminster legislated and dissolved Scotland from the treaty of union , leaving England without a united kingdom.
Some Scots will eventually realise this, but as long as Scottish politicians pretend and continue to make Scots grovel on their knees while taking the english shilling.
Scots will be in a never ending referendum with the goal posts always shifting,
Then one day some bright Scot will go research it for them selves instead of listening and believing the unionist better together mantra, while they steal the new oil field from under your noses.
Meanwhile, to wee , to stupid , to poor , and “show us yer plans Scotland”:is the hymn sheet sung from in by the politicians both sides of Scotlands border whose purse relies on a fallacious union.
It does away with deciding whom gets to vote on Scotlands independence.
It does away with needing 50+1 % to gain Scottish independence.
It does away with the rigged voting system imposed on Scots.
Persistence in encouraging others to do their own research into history and records for themselves. Will eventually bring the successful conclusion of independence to Scots,
The door Scotland came in, is the door Scotland leaves by.
ASA
**or decide who votes.**
Actually, we do.
*16/17 yr olds
*EU citizens
*Refugees
*Short term Prisoners
O/T Rev is saying that there will be news from Operation Branchform before too long.
But, Rev, surely the COPFS will say “nothing to see”?
Re Ireland, Mohammed the most popular boys name in Galway last year. Sometimes it’s best to turn a blind eye.
https://archive.fo/6NoET
ASA
You know full well the Scottish parliament was extinguished from the treaty of union in 1707.
There is NO united kingdom.
put the english shilling and pensions back. and get up of yer subordinate knees.
RoS
The decolonisation department deals with those issues directly.
UN observers, who is entitled to vote, bans on media & other countries interference, (that’s BT fcked!) strict franchise & no last gasp attempt at deals.
If Scotland is denied a peaceful exit – there are other routes with the added bonus it’s internationally recognised from the get go.
All the loyalists can do is go live in England. I’m sure they’ll be delighted to have them.
Mind pack yer flute, ASA. Yer moving! Yay!
@Anton Decadent says:13 July, 2023 at 6:17 pm
Well, well well, well well.
I have been saying for some time that every Scottish boy baby should be christened Mohammed.
Purely as an insurance measure, for when what we can all see coming down the pipe finally arrives. No need to use the name right now, the babies can have more traditional middle names, and everybody can use these. For now.
But I reckon it will be important to have the right boxes already ticked when these kids grow up in 20 to 30 years time.
Dan – The Westminster Government has been terrible, but it is now improving and the Chancellor we have now is pretty good in my opinion.
My point is Holyrood should be able to match that and if Shona Robison is Chancellor, and we are covering-up for foul-up after foul-up, then the public will not vote for a continuation of that because no-one wants it.
The situation in the UK pre the banking crash was OK really, but it has deteriorated since the banking crash and yet Scotland still persists with PFI. So, it’s cause and effect.
If Salmond had stuck around these past 8 or 9 years at Holyrood, then I would have been happy with that. He was demonstrating that Holyrood can work and the public perception of Holyrood now would be a hell of a lot better for it.
Put it this way: If we were to learn that Alex Salmond was to meet Rishi Sunak at Downing Street tomorrow, we would all be confident that he would put up a good combative, intelligent and respectful performance. Could we say that about Humza?
Because of Sturgeon and Swinney’s fascination with PFI, todays financial woes will continue for the next 25-years. That’s a sobering thought, isn’t it? The rest of the UK will have paid for their PFI, but we will still be paying for ours.
Just seen the SNP say, they’re to refit 1200 homes for Ukranian refugees.
What about the indigenous Scottish men?
Why does no one care about them?
You’re a second class citizen in this country if you’re a Scottish male.
Under Humza. That’s the truth. Blamed for everything. What about men eh?
You’ve got to put on a dress and call yourself Alexa before you’re able to ask for your equal rights.
Zelensky’s now surprise to requirements having succeeded in making NATO 2 countries larger, and 113 billion dollars richer.
Meanwhile ordinary Scots pay the price for British foreign policy.
What about men?
What about Scottish indigenous white males?
They’d love to conscript us all given the chance to help make them even richer.
The country has gone down the toilet pan. It gets more difficult every day.
ASA
The domestic Acts and laws that the Scottish parliament passed could not be re-used as English parliament acts in law to create a new united kingdom when Westminster extinguished the Scottish parliament and it members from one half of the treaty of union.
There is No united kingdom
Englands old Westminster parliament presumed it could own and use the Scottish Acts of law (of a different Country than England) to create a new united kingdom and a new one parliament.
The union concept never materealised once each domestic laws were ratified in their own parliaments in their own Countries.
Englands Westminster canceled and extinguished the Scottish parliament and its domestic Acts from the treaty.
England was legally unable to to hold on to Scottish parliament acts or laws once this happened,
It could no longer use Scots law acts before the creation of the promised union on its own.
Thus the treaty of union never advanced to a international treaty. And once Englands Westminster extinguished the Scottish parliament there was no union even under domestic law between the two parliaments,
England could not become the owner of Scots Acts on its own to make a treaty, prior to the union itself,
It is utterly stupid to believe that Englands parliament could use Scots law in a English parliament to create a international treaty of union with itself,
Without a Scottish existing parliament to hold those Acts as laws of Scotland.
To borrow Scots laws and convert them into English laws to create a new kingdom without Authority of Scotland or its parliament. Or even a Monarch,
While deciding not to give the Scottish nation of Sovereign Scots a vote to join.
To all legal intents and purposes England holds a treaty of union with itself solely in English law.
@ Stuart MacKay says:13 July, 2023 at 1:57 pm
You’re welcome 🙂
@John Main 6:40pm
In 2022 of the top 20 boys names in Scotland Muhammad wasn’t on the list. A reminder Scotland is 96 % White and 4% Bame. The fact that the first act of Humza in Bute House was to pay homeage to Mecca is neither here or there. He is not Scotland neither are the SNP. I have a new grandchild due late September I will guarantee he won’t be called Muhammad or any derivative thereof.
Geri,
you’ve persuaded me. I’ll have a vote in Scotland again. My sister’s farm in Perthshire has a cottage on the back 40 acres. I’ll register there. She’s happy with that. And we will both be voting for the Tories, and in any future Indy ref, for the union.
With my best wishes from Norfolk.
Rev Stu
I understand that certain words trigger a post entering moderation.
I have no idea which words actually cause this to happen but can I respectfully suggest a few more.
Che
RepublicofScotland
Geri
Baird
The date 1707 might also be appropriate. A few more words are currently bubbling under.
Many thanks.
Stuart MacKay @ 12:20 pm
“There is another dimension. It’s learned helplessness”
Postcolonial theory tells us that parts of the native group “suffer from what must be called dependency complex, that these groups are psychologically made for dependence; that they need dependence, that they crave it, ask for it, demand it (and) this is the case with most of the colonized peoples” (Cesaire).
With such a mindset, those of us who dare to question their ‘condition’ are deemed ‘guilty of sacrilege’ and, as we see here, may even be considered mad.
My goodness the unionist trolls are out spouting shite on this particular blog.
Their comments certainly bring into sharp focus the loathing that they have for valid debate and discussion.
And in truth it is a good thing that some of this shite gets posted because it rings to us all just how puerile and hateful so many of the unionists are.
Forewarned is forearmed. Better to know them than not, and better again go know those much deeper hidden but working to undermine in the background.
@George Ferguson says:13 July, 2023 at 7:02 pm
Congratulations George, you must be very excited in anticipation of the coming event.
My name suggestion was tongue-in-cheek. Then again, things are changing fast and if it can happen in Ireland …
Thanks for the info about HY. Every day a school day – I had no idea he was a bingo fan. 🙂
[That’s me defo being tongue-in-cheek this time]
Capt Yossarian
” Because of Sturgeon and Swinney’s fascination with PFI, todays financial woes will continue for the next 25-years. ”
I’m the last person to defend that pair , but the obscenity that is PFI was started by the Tories and greatly accelerated by the Blair Labour Gov . Actions that should have seen the perpetrators jailed , rather than patted on the back for their economic savvy. Suffice to say , not one of them were ever taken to task for the damage they inflicted ; still being inflicted .
A total scam that saw private companies make a * killing * on ridiculously inflated long-term repayments costs and local councils saddled with crippling debt/interest so that the vultures of rapacious International Capitalism could continue feasting on the public purse .
All the * Investors * * Insurers * * Consultants * n those paragons of Arbeit Mach Frei ( as long as it’s not them doing the actual work ) Shareholders scored big-time . And we paid for it – in both senses .
The SNP under Sturgeon and now Yousaf are quite at ease with this process of allowing * The Market * – ie private capital – increasing influence/power in how things are run , and for whose benefit they are run . It won’t end well .
Commenters who wish to type an opinion here should really ensure that they have read all the posts, by others, that may have covered their point of interest.
The status of the UK, countries, province, etc has been covered on a previous page. Obviously, the relevant comments were skimmed past, otherwise the commenter wouldn’t post ignorant comments like,
“The U.K. is one nation. Unusually, of 2 countries, a Principality, and a Province. But no bother.”
Some commenters are so sure of their own infallibility that they just go and dive in feet first.
If the following had been read, feet wouldn’t be in mouth.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-spare-wheels/comment-page-1/#comment-2775660
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-spare-wheels/comment-page-1/#comment-2775679
In particular, read the links at the Wikipedia article referenced in the second link, to discover the status of Wales, according to the ‘International Organization for Standards’.
Robert Hughes – The first iteration of PFI was very, very expensive for the tax-payer and that is why it has been abandoned in England.
The Scottish version is lightly cheaper but it carries far more risk. As was shown with Edinburgh Sick Kids Hospital it can, and does, leave the tax-payer on the hook for tens of millions.
It all depends who you have running it. If they are experienced then that’s OK. If it is run by dummies, as it is in Scotland, then, as I say, the taxpayer is on the hook for tens of millions.
It all gets covered-up these days of course. Scotland has become exceptional in the world for covering-up things.
@John Main 7:33pm
Thanks for your post. We have a few grandchildren already but you right everyone one of them is special including the unborn. We are looking forward to it. I don’t see any shift in the balance of power. The real power will be on the streets and Holyrood is currently tolerated. For the timebeing. Since 2014 Holyrood and the Scottish Government have consistently disappointed.
What’s that condition where folks are so dependent on their partner that if they threaten to leave or think they’re being abandoned they become violent & throw mad explosive tantrums?
Oh aye, Borderline personality disorder.
Lots of it about in the Britnat community whether Scotland thinks about putting it’s coat on.
It must be all those ££££s signs walking away..
A Scot Abroad does not have a sister in Perthshire. He’s a sad fuck.
Re. PFI
Campbell Martin’s shortish films (both about 40 mins long) on the subject are worth a watch.
The Only Game in Town
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paLSPNPfQXM
The Only Game in Town 2 – The Cover Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19kng8RjBXg
Alf Baird
Alf, I managed to get hold of a copy of a book you mentioned in one of your posts.
I’ve only just started reading it but this passage, on page 9 from Part 1 The Problem, appears to reinforce what you say in your own book, Doun-Hauden. I think you are both talking of the same thing, but correct me if I’m wrong:
And this from your book (Doun-Hauden) – Chapter 8: Institutions – Anglophone Establishment:
Briandoonthetoon.
On Wales and the Welsh, Welsh children were beaten in the 1800 if they spoke Welsh at school, the English took over the running of the schools, children who persisted on speaking their native tongue, had what was called a Welsh Not placed around their neck, it was a piece of wood inscribed with the letters WN.
This piece of wood could be passed around to other kids who kept on speaking their native language, kids were encouraged to tell on their friends if they continued to speak Welsh, it was a very successful way of limiting the Welsh indigenous language.
Incidentally English incomers voted for Brexit, whilst a majority of indigenous Welsh folk voted against it, but it wasn’t enough and overall it looked as though Wales voted to leave the EU, the Welsh were one of highest recipients of EU grants now gone.
Dan – Thanks for that. Iain Livingstone, Leslie Evans and the Labour Party? Frankly, it is embarrassing and disgraceful, isn’t it. That’s what I mean about cover-ups though and exactly the same thing continues now.
@Geri says:13 July, 2023 at 7:58 pm
they become violent
Who’s become violent?
Name names, Geri.
BTW, how do you become violent on an online forum (asking purely from academic interest, you understand)?
Incidentally, although pronouns are receiving a bit of bad press ATM, it nevertheless continues to be the case that countries are thought of as being feminine, and therefore, Scotland’s pronouns are she/her.
If it helps, think of Scotland as just a part of Mother Earth, nurtured by Mother Nature.
Thus, Scotland can’t be putting it’s [sic] coat on, but may be putting her coat on.
Happy to help!
Scotsrenewables,
I spoke with her yesterday on the phone. Definitely in Perthshire, as it was her landline. Definitely my sister (we share the same birthday, 2 years apart), and she’s refreshingly old fashioned and identifies as a woman.
RoS
It’s a well worn trait of theirs.
I was watching a documentary on The highway of tears – route 16 the other day. ‘The family that vanished’ Indigenous ppl treated as not even human. Cultural genocide by the colonisers & they were forcibly entered into residential schools to knock the living shit out of them, abuse them & forbid even friendships with siblings. (Last one only closed late 90s) Stripped of their lands, culture, beliefs, language. Forced to live in poverty, no work, no services & no right to justice which makes highway 16 the most notorious playground for serial killers on the planet cause the police couldn’t give a shit who is reported missing. Any complaints about (lack of) law enforcement can look forward to a police beating which forces them to just not bother reporting it anymore. Colonisers really are parasites.
ASA
There won’t be an indyref. Told you, that offer has been withdrawn.
It will be elections now. Every term. Until it’s 50+1% then it’s instant negotiations for our exit.
The beauty of that is if you lot really, really, really want to live under Tory unionist rule. Then live with it & have all their policies.
The indy movement only needs to hit 50+1% once.
You lot have to do it repeatedly.
Tick tock..
A Scot Abroad says: at 9:46 pm
“I spoke with her yesterday on the phone. Definitely in Perthshire, as it was her landline. Definitely my sister (we share the same birthday, 2 years apart), and she’s refreshingly old fashioned and identifies as a woman.”
Is she single? 🙂
Mind you, that “identifies as a woman” line concerns me. It’s just that I’ve had “docking port” compatibility issues in the past with someone identifying as a woman. And no amount of quaffing Tone Loc’s Funky Cold Medina was ever going to resolve that issue…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63ZIf2H9S0E
Northcode @ 8:20 pm
“This stratification system, which may be termed a cultural division of labor, contributes to the development of distinctive ethnic identification in the two groups.”
Yes, it wasn’t easy trying to figure out how only two of the principals of Scotland’s nineteen higher education institutions were Scottish. I often wondered why this was the case – were Scots simply not good enough to lead Scotland’s institutions? Hechter’s ‘cultural division of labour’ explains it. However, wider postcolonial theory tells us that colonialism only works by debasing the colonized leading to ethnic oppression becoming institutionalised in a colonial society.
This is part of a piece by Prof Allysson Pollock, public health academic (therefore according to the troll useless).
It was written in 2012, still relevant.
“This is what the public needs to know and is not being told.
First, the high costs of PFI debt charges means that the NHS can only operate anything from a third to half as many services and staff as it would have done had the scheme been funded through conventional procurement. In other words, for every PFI hospital up and running, equity investors and bankers are charging as if for two. Edward Leigh, the chair of a Treasury committee report into PFI, called investor returns the unacceptable face of capitalism.
Second, we can still afford to pay for universal healthcare – but only if we stop using NHS funds to prop up banks and equity investors.
Third, it is PFI deficits that are driving service closures, not patient demand or an ageing population. Service closures have nothing to do with service redesign.
Fourth, the government has now embarked on a new path, bringing in an Act that effectively abolishes the NHS, and which allows hospitals both to enter into more joint ventures with industry and to raise up to half their income from private patients. Two monsters are now unleashed – PFI and Lansley’s Health and Social Care Act 2012.”
By 2018 Lansley’s Health and Social Care Act was seen as dysfunctional.
Senior Labour Party policy maker makes it clear to Scottish and Welsh Labour that all policies
will come from London HQ.
It’s Starmer’s way or no way.
It has always been that way but they have run with a lie contrary story for many decades.
Vote Scottish Labour and get what suits South East England.
ASA
Won’t you need a voter ID & proof of residency with the Tories new voter ID rules? Oh dear. How are you going to prove you live in an outhouse in Perthshire?
Shall we expect 3 kings & star on your arrival?
Geri,
no party is offering 50%+1
And any party that does is going to be well less than 50%+1.
So it is a pretty fucking useless offer. Much like Scots Indy. Nobody is interested.
@Effigy 10:22pm
Sir Keir Starmer models his leadership style on Nicola Sturgeon. Nobody else is entitled to an opinion or has relevant experience. Work in a Chip Shop if you want to get on. I am expecting Mairi to have a Damascus conversion and join Scottish Labour. The ba is burst for the SNP. Accept it.
Dan,
no, she’s taken. By an Englishman, from Cumbria. They’re a farming couple.
I’m a little bit outraged that you enquire into her status. As her brother, I want to defend her honour.
Effijy
Yes. That’s the rules under electoral commission. There can’t be one party with two different sets of policies.
Johann Lamont was right, they’re a branch office & all instructions comes from London via a memo. There is no such thing as Scottish Labour & they’re not even a Labour party anymore. They’ve caught the same bug the SNP has. SNP think they’re new labour & Labour think they’re new Tories!
& there was me thinking it was just the trans brigade who suffer an identity crisis..
ASA
You are very wrong about that & it’s clear you haven’t been following Wings articles of late.
Plans are afoot. Calm yourself. There’s a yr to go.
Keir Starmer is a repugnant individual. He wears the Tory clothes well.
The 10 plan liar & back stabber who throws out & deselects membership & candidates like a good little Hitler.
He’s found the perfect excuse & he’ll play it forever. anti-Semitism. Just blame dissenters as anti-Semitic even when they arent -job done.
WTAF thought he was going to be socialist & fight workers rights? Lol!!
Now they’ve no chance of getting rid of him unless he resigns under pressure if he’s gubbed. Not likely. He’s another narcissist & would front it out.
No Damascus moment for Mhari black. She was Labour before indyref. She’ll only be returning to where she came from. She’d need to move country tho.
It’s scary times tho. Starmer or Tory both authoritarian, both police state, both right wing unhinged loons.
**WTAF thought he was going to be socialist & fight workers rights?**
Actually, scrub that. I answered my own question.
The 10 pledge bullshit. Wins leadership then abandons the whole lot & starts sacking everyone including its membership.
A major problem we have where liars & unhinged nutters cannot be removed unless by parliament.
A Scot Abroad says: at 11:02 pm
“no, she’s taken. By an Englishman, from Cumbria. They’re a farming couple.
I’m a little bit outraged that you enquire into her status. As her brother, I want to defend her honour.”
An Englishman? Surely you mean NuScot.
I do hope they don’t claim any subsidies and leech off the state as I know you frown on such actions. Just thought to mention that as a lot of farmers were in receipt of CAP payments.
TBF you’re on here pretty much every day perma-outraged at the thought your country of birth should have the audacity to consider returning to self-governance after being so badly served under London Rule over the past few centuries.
It’s a pity your honour doesn’t extend to defending your country of birth’s right to thrive and prosper. In fact you seem to want the opposite for it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/13/scotland-facing-savage-budget-cuts-to-pay-for-snp-pay-rises/
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousafs-incompetence-leading-snp-30462375
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/angus-macneil-no-plans-join-30461933
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/operation-branchform-snp-figures-suggesting-30462260
https://www.gbnews.com/politics/snp-nicola-sturgeon-leaving-party-transport-taxpayers
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/another-snp-government-promise-broken-30459620
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/13/snp-apparatchiks-have-taken-the-public-for-all-theyre-worth/
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-civil-war-ratchets-up-30459011
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/penny-mordaunt-attacks-snps-incompatible-30458305
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nursing-applications-drop-almost-fifth-30457605
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-blasted-hypocrisy-over-glasgow-30456614
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-government-publishes-operation-branchform-30455545
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/cash-strapped-snp-government-spend-30452742
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-propaganda-being-pushed-civil-30451859
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-civil-war-ratchets-up-30459011.amp
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-government-risk-missing-affordable-30459365
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1790284/Angus-MacNeil-slams-SNP-over-independence-plans
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12290307/Nicola-Sturgeons-farewell-appearance-Loose-Women-cost-taxpayers-1-200.html
Thoroughly enjoyed Kelly Given’s wee manhating rant in The National today. Like many feminists, she uses one example of a man being a prick (in this case the yank clown Jonah Hill) and uses it to spit blanket vitriol on all men.
She’s a true Political Daughter Of Nicola, a vapid, egocentric, misandristic piece of hateful shit, spewing the manhating (“Not all men but really, what I mean is…YES, ALL BASTARD MEN!”) swill her Cult Leader spewed all the time. And this is the kind of insensitive, disgusting young upcoming wretch that wants to be in political power in Scotland. No wonder this country is fucked, and I am coming to really, REALLY resent these simpleton middle class braindead careerist vermin.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12291089/Angus-MacNeil-refuses-rejoin-SNP-blast-partys-clueless-independence-strategy.html?ico=topics_pagination_mobile
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/all-about/snp.amp
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-mp-slams-tories-undermining-30433589
Dan
You’ve roused Ron from his slumbers.
I’m trying to eat my breakfast and now I have a pic of Father Jack in ma heid!
Bastille Day today, and our French friends (the Auld Alliance) are forbidden from celebrating their national day for fear of what their New French guests may do.
Absolutely no relevance to us in Scotland, but still, it makes you think.
On Unherd today, an innarestin article (“At Nato, America recaptured Europe”) about the New Europe that is fast developing as the avalanche triggered in February 2022 gathers destructive power. Note the term “New Europe”, as distinct from “New EU”. The difference matters, as the article makes clear. As Scotland is smack bang in the middle of this new geo-political reality, I don’t see 2014 coming around again, ever.
Indy needs new strategies, tactics, leaders and foot soldiers if it is to succeed in the new realpolitik.
Happy Bastille Day to all.
Got rudely woken this morning with a loud banging noise coming from outside.
It turns out it was Ireland trying to get back in to the UK. Norway was stood behind hoping to sneak in unnoticed, followed by Iceland, cheeky wee buggers. Who do they think they are? Successful, independent, sovereign states or something? Idiots!
Dan,
Scotland only prospers as part of the Union. It’s utterly fucked if it is alone.
ASA @ 0754am , surely some mistake ? England would be bankrupt and utterly fucked if , Scotland “ leaves” the so called union . That’s why Westminster is so so desperate to keep Scotland chained . If there was any financial gain whatsoever for England in Scotland becoming independent we would have been “ jettisoned “ years ago .
A Scot Abroad says on 14 July, 2023 at 7:54 am: “Dan, Scotland only prospers as part of the Union. It’s utterly fucked if it is alone.”
Biggest load of shite since Nicola Sturgeon. And the most amateur attempt at flame baiting i’ve ever witnessed. School report: Must do better! Away and join your fellow BritNat alcoholic ‘Ron Clark’ with all its direct link contributions to the Unionist cause.
Aye! It takes a special kind of sad cunt to sit up to after 2am posting nothing but direct links to Unionist outlets. Good for the post count but damaging to WOS. Bravo! Halfwit!
By the way, ‘Ron Retard’, what happened after 2:05am? Did the shandy start to kick in? Did you run out of methylated spirits? Or have you not progressed passed yer Maw’s pishy-drawers yet?
I hear there’s a deal to be had online, you can get 5-litres for less than £20. Methylated spirits that is, not yer Maw’s drawers.
Or if you’re that desperate i hear the dregs remaining in the whisky barrels at the cask storage depots packs quite a punch. If you know how to access them without getting caught. 😉 FUD!
A Scot Abroad says: at 7:54 am
“Scotland only prospers as part of the Union. It’s utterly fucked if it is alone.”
Hmm, well thank you for making that point, because if it were true it shows just how badly Scotland has fared under London Rule for the past few hundred years, as Westminster has tightly controlled all the major powers required to influence the success or failure of Scotland over the course of the union.
And that failure to govern Scotland well is evermore apparent when we look at these respective stats.
The Kingdom of Scotland has a much better resources to population figure than the Kingdom of England.
(Old stats so may not be 100% accurate but it gives the gist.)
KINGDOM OF SCOTLAND WITH ONLY 9% OF THE UK POPULATION HAS:
32% of the land area.
61% of the sea area.
90% of the fresh water.
65% of the natural gas production
96.5% of the crude oil production.
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% if the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings
90% of the whisky industry
70% of gin production
KINGDOM OF ENGLAND WITH 91% OF THE UK POPULATION ONLY HAS:
68% of the land area.
39% of the sea area.
10% of the fresh water.
35% of the natural gas production
3.5% of the crude oil production.
53% of the open cast coal production
19% of the untapped coal reserves
38% of the timber production
54% of the total forest area
8% of the hydro electric production
60% of the wind wave and solar energy production
40% of the fish landings
70% of the beef herd
80% of the sheep herd
91% of the dairy herd
90% of the pig herd
85% if the cereal holdings
80% of the potato holdings
10% of the whisky industry
30% of gin production
Those stats for the Kingdom of England look a bit sketchy to me so please feel free to suggest how an independent Kingdom of England would fare on its own.
Now I know you think I’m just an irritating little jerk, but I’ll irritate you even more by pointing out that some folk even get on the telly and make the point I am making.
Eg. Here’s a 3 min clip of Jim Rogers, a successful global investor, so he may have a bit of an inkling of the real situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY2W_Okl9lE
Too wee .Too poor and too stupid to be independent – how often do we have to be force fed this utter ordure?
I wonder if every other neughbourly ,independent country like Norway and Sweden, subjected each other to this bumf?
How does wee Belgium survive I ask – very well comes the reply.
Luxembourg? Absolutely fine!Denmark? Bloody marvellously!
I will concede that too stupid to vote YES in 2014 has done great damage to my beautiful country – notably NOT being able to close our borders or stop flights during covid and the somewhat relaxed selling off assets ,like land and energy , something for which the current SNP should be roundly condemned.
A Scot Abroad @7:54 am
You describe independence as Scotland being “alone”. Yet independence means doing trade deals or agreeing on joint projects directly with other countries. It means having full diplomatic links with other states. That’s hardly being alone. Also domestically, with independence, Scotland launches much needed infrastructure projects without requiring permission.
Independence is normal for nations. Subjugation – the waiting for permission and orders – is wasteful. And has no place for a proud nation in the 21st century.
Scotland is a proud nation. The UK is neither proud or a nation. It is a multi-nation state whose ultra-dominant nation is not proud but arrogant and febrile when it thinks about its place in the world. An independent England would be happier and much more at ease, as it builds up its no longer subsidised economy.
A westminster religiously divided Scotland (like they did in Ireland) has long been the cancer gnawing away at Scotlands innards. Are the people intelligent enough to see through this? Somehow sadly i doubt it.
ASA ‘it’s utterly f**ked if it is alone’.eh?
Its utterly f**ked as it is now. Ya bawbag.
“Scotland launches much needed infrastructure projects without requiring permission”.
Like the ferries, you mean? The A90 upgrade? It is political interference that’s stopping it all-right, but it’s not from Westminster is it?
In fact, when Westminster was in charge, these things used to just get done. Now it’s another Holyrood drama…..in the queue alongside all of the other Holyrood dramas.
Dan.
Re your point with the Kingdom of England having 68% of the land as opposed to Scotland having 32%, lets no forget Wales is a country in its own right which reduces England’s landmass.
Apart form the above I wholeheartedly agree that Scotland is in a very good position to dissolve the union, whilst England just cannot afford to let us go.
From a guest commentor over on Yours For Scotland.
“We need our own currency and central bank just like any other normal grown-up country. A government that issues its own currency from its central bank and only borrows in that currency can never go broke, nor can it be held hostage to the money markets. If the money markets attack a Scottish pound, the government can repurchase its debt through the quantitative easing process to reduce pressure on the exchange rate. It can also set its own interest rate to stimulate the economy and control its tax system.
If we stay in the UK, none of that will be possible. The Bank of England would control interest rates and the money supply. Scotland would have to borrow in a foreign currency – sterling – and would have no ability to generate funds to make payments. It would be no more than an English region.
An independent Scotland will have ample foreign reserves. People will trade sterling for the Scottish currency because the government will require tax to be paid in that currency. To pay the tax, individuals and businesses will need Scottish pounds. The transfer from sterling into Scottish pounds will instantly create billions in foreign reserves, enabling Scotland to be a strong and stable independent state. ”
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2023/07/13/more-from-leah/
Re my above comment a wee bit more from the person.
“England has imposed a deficit on Scotland by dumping onto Scotland billions of UK costs for English infrastructure projects, nuclear weapons and UK debt servicing. If Scotland were such a burden on the UK, we would have been ejected long ago.
“If being in the UK is so advantageous, consider this. Scotland, with a population of 5.1 million, generates enough electricity for 25 million citizens daily which is cabled to England and then sold back to Scots who are charged the highest prices in Europe to use their own energy.
Scotland’s sole political priority should be to stop the plunder by ending the union. “
@Captain Yossarian says:14 July, 2023 at 10:01 am
You forgot the SNHS, a wholly Scottish run clusterfuck since 1999.
That’s right – getting on for a quarter of a century. On the plus side though, the rebranding from “NHS” to “SNHS” looks nice, and so what if it cost a few mill that might have been better spent on the patients?
Innarestin to see DD at 9:11 bemoaning the lack of even more pointless and suicidal policies during the Covid years though.
Seems like the harsh reality of how the Chinese Flu policies that were followed has wrecked the economy and totally fucked the NHS and SNHS is just never going to sink in.
Oh well.
Dan; keep sticking it to thon Mad Yoon Troll.
Scotland, with a population of 5.1 million, generates enough electricity for 25 million citizens daily, this is cabled to England and then sold back to Scots who are charged the highest prices in Europe to use their own energy.
Scotland’s sole political priority should be to stop the plunder by ending the union.
How to get SNP bums off the green seats of the House of Commons and reconvene the original Scottish Parliament…
Nobile officium:
In Scots law, literally the noble power or office of the Court of Session. It allows the Court of Session to exercise its equitable discretion to modify the common law or to grant relief in a situation where no provision exists under the ordinary law. This might be done where an unexpected or exceptional circumstance arises for which justice dictates there should be a remedy.
The NHS in Scotland has been “wholly Scottish run” since it was launched in 1948.
The NHS in England & Wales was set up by an Act of Parliament.
The NHS in Scotland was set up under a separate Act of Parliament.
Captain Yossarian @10:01am
Westminster is still in charge. Holyrood is part of UK set up. And Sturgeon is a unionist to the core.
The efficient devolved government of Salmond gave Scotland a foretaste of what independence will be like.
@Republicofscotland says:14 July, 2023 at 10:13 am
If we stay in the UK, none of that will be possible. The Bank of England would control interest rates and the money supply. Scotland would have to borrow in a foreign currency – sterling – and would have no ability to generate funds to make payments. It would be no more than an English region.
Of course, no argument from me.
And for the hard of thought, still waving their “Independence In Europe” banners, the following needs to be pointed out:
If we are in the EU, none of that will be possible. The European Central Bank would control interest rates and the money supply. Scotland would have to borrow in a foreign currency – the Euro – and would have no ability to generate funds to make payments. It would be no more than an EU region.
Beauvais – Westminster is not in charge; Holyrood is. That is what Holyrood is there to do for you and if you want a ferry, just order one. That’s all you have to do.
Dan,
Listing the resources of Scotland or citing Jim Rogers won’t get through to ASA, he’s a (Scot. born) person who has absorbed the full-on assimulation of the English bulldog state.
Every time he speaks, the dedicated Tory Empire soldier utters his bulls**t contempt for the ordinary Scots who just want to live in their own country and run it without England milking it every day.
He is English arrogance in person and always assumes that people don’t or can’t see through his bull***t.
A couple of threads back he boasted about Scotland’s inability to organise and profit from the opening of the Arctic routes in the future.
(Alf Baird laughs..) 🙂
This is the man who said he’d recently ridden from Cologne to Basel/Switzerland down the Rhine and never seen a single container ship because everything goes by road and rail.
Obviously blind as a bat..!
https://www.frankenbach.com/leistungen/container-terminal
There are dozens of container terminals on the Rhine and he can’t see one, oh dear me..!
In other words, ASA is a liar and bullshiter but I think you already know that.
There’s absolutely no reason for people to update their understanding of the circumstances surrounding SARS CoV2 and the lockdowns.
Although many people suspected that we were being lied to regarding covid and the vaccines by our governments and the pharmaceutical industry, it is now fact that this is what exactly happened, no ifs, no buts, they lied purposefully to us.
It never ceases to amaze me that people place their trust in the completely untrustworthy, it’s what allows them to herd us like sheep and treat us like cattle.
With all the information to hand, there is no excuse to be ill-informed let alone misinformed.
Captain Yossarian
You’ll have to remind us when Westminster*just got things done*
There was fck all in Scotland that worked & there was *Scottish* Labour signing us up to PFI while 5 billion of Scots money was left in the London treasury.
Labours role in Scotland was to keep poverty up.
The britnats problem is we remember how it was under a Labour government & Tory one – it was shite, it will always be shite – after 2014 it was still SHITE! If Labour win in England, guess what? It will still be shite!
& Get off the broken ferries. SNP were sabatours by then.
& The absolute cluster fuck of having unionist civil servants & bureaucracy at every single level! Fk all will work in Holyrood because it was designed that way – it’s a branch office with the Unionist Jackass as it’s overlord.
So off you pop painting the UK, under labour, as some romantic notion for Scotland as some prosperous bygone era. They were bastards to Scotland when they were in power & rigged every fecking referendum to stay there because ITS A LONDON Political party. It’s interests serve on master, LONDON.
They shouldn’t even be in Scotland or Holyrood because they’re not registered in this country.
Captain Yossarian @ 11:00 am
“Westminster is not in charge; Holyrood is.”
Holyrood is clearly Westminster’s poodle, nae mair than a mankit colonial administration. So long as that continues Scotland will remain under-developed, run by a ‘mediocre meritocracy’ whose main purpose is to ensure the plunder of our resources continues. Making the natives feel culturally ‘British’ (via cultural assimilation) is a key part of the colonial hoax. The same colonial procedures have been played out across the globe. Scotland is not some aberration, neither was Ireland.
Geri – I agree with you Labour are equally as bad and will do nothing for anyone. I am not a Tory, by the way, and so that leaves me homeless – just like most of us are I suspect.
Dan sent me a video last night. You should watch it when you have time. Whether it is ferries or schools, it is a Holyrood problem entirely.
The only way to Independence is to highlight the pathetic nature of Devolution and it’s parliament, by litigation and a class action by the people of Scotland, to reconvene the original Scottish Parliament from Westminster, by demanding a court sanctioned referendum!
Suing the Scottish government, in particular SNP, for misrepresentation of their promise of a referendum, is the first step to self-determination, by the people of Scotland.
The above class action, a petition to the court, to empower authentic Scottish Parliament to reconvene from Westminster to Edinburgh.
The same article of Scots Law, used by Joanna Cherry, to condemn Boris Johnson’s unlawful prorogation of Parliament, could be cited to address the current denial of democracy.
The only rightful address of the above action, is sanction by the court, to allow unfettered access to democratic process.. in the shape of a referendum, to confirm the case for a true Scottish Parliament!
Whether the above is definition of The Claim of Right, or not, is incidental to the legal process, in international law and the given right to self-determination.
Someone will have to remind me – was it 5 houses or 7 that *Scottish* labour built in Scotland? Lol
The absolute travesty of money in the bank while signing hospital’s up to parking fees & debts that even a loan shark would cringe!!
No, things didn’t just get done. Fk all was done.
Alex Salmond will return to Holyrood. If indy movement has any sense. Either as FM or as an advisor. We’ve all came this far, Alex more than anyone, to fck it up now.
If Scottish Labour win Holyrood instead then no biggie – there are other routes to indy that don’t involve a branch office. & The Scots can return to direct London rule as they strip off 600 million mitigation & return to tuition fees, prescription charges…7 hooses in 40 yrs LOL
Sorry Captain Yossarian
Wasn’t suggesting you were Tory, just that we’ve lived under both. Two cheeks of the same arse & neither have Scotlands interests as a priority – even before devolution & Holyrood they have stiffed Scotland out of democracy & £billions in revenues (John Happy, McCrone) while our country lived in absolute squalor.
Nothing just worked – if it did it was after delays & way over budget. Trams? Building Holyrood? Total disasters that went millions over budget..
*Jappy
I wish autocorrect would leave his name alone..
Republicofscotland says:
14 July, 2023 at 10:16 am
“If being in the UK is so advantageous, consider this. Scotland, with a population of 5.1 million, generates enough electricity for 25 million citizens daily which is cabled to England and then sold back to Scots who are charged the highest prices in Europe to use their own energy.
————————————-
should scotland alone fund the subsidy paid by the whole of the uk at the moment?
The colonial devolved government in Holyrood exist under Westminster legislation, as does the whole Scotland ACT.
The managerial Branch office Breaches the English non existent treaty of union.
The original purpose of the branch office of governance was to restrict Scotlands progress and ensure that Scotland fails.
It may appear like Scotland makes really bad decisions while actually being ran by civil serve ts and the appointees from down souths like jack the lad or mundells of this world
Most of those in Holyrood swear alligeince not to Scotland or Scots, but to the legislator of the wee pretendy Scottish parliament,
Billy Connolly understood that it Was a wee prentendy Scottish parliament,
Scotland does not yet have its own parliament or government , it has a Westminster branch office sent to Scotland
England Westminster is the only parliament in England with branch offices in Wales and Scotland
John Main said;
“The European Central Bank would control interest rates and the money supply. Scotland would have to borrow in a foreign currency – the Euro – and would have no ability to generate funds to make payments. It would be no more than an EU region.”
You carefully overlooked a key point that ruins your argument. The above only applies to those EU members that joined the eurozone. Scotland needn’t do that, even if it does join the EU.
Given that the only genuine route to Scottish independence is via legal action by the people of Scotland..
Jockeying by politicians will soon form the basis for those wishing to be elected to authentic Scottish Parliament, when the exit from Westminster is confirmed.
In the meantime, the actions of current politicians, will not be forgotten when the time comes for genuine governance of Scotland!
Alf Baird says:
14 July, 2023 at 11:25 am
colonial administration.
—————————
“Legal advisory notice: Scotland is not, in fact or in law, a colony. That was conclusively decided in the recent UKSC case.”
https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1677066435745439746
SNP suspend somone who says he will only join if they are serious about indy
Kind of says it all really
They are not fit to govern if they are that stupid
I hope Alex Salmond has the decency never to return to Holyrood parliament while it is under Colonial administration.
I seriously hope that he is aiming to have a Scottish parliament and administration.
We have not had one since we closed our Scottish parliament under Sine Die in Scotland.
Our Scottish parliament could not have been reconvened at Holyrood like Winnie Ewen suggested while simultainliosly running under the flag of the Scotland Act legislation administered by Westminster parliament.
Scotland can no longer be run by two bosses, two parliaments. As it is now.
We could re- use the building to start up a totally new Scottish parliament, not a reconvened parliament that may drag us back towards the treaty,
although it might be wiser to bring the parliament to a more central location accessible to all Scotland instead of sitting on the borders, too faraway for most of Scots.
There was nothing in the treaty that required the extinction or extinguishing of either the Scottish parliament or the English parliament.
There is no article in the treaty that makes this request.
It is therefore exceedingly questionable Why the Westminster parliament extinguished the Scottish parliament from the treaty of parliamentary union.
While holding no authority to Colonise the treaty of union to itself.
Captain Yossarian says that ‘it is a Holyrood problem entirely.
That would be the case if the colonially imposed Civil Service were Scottish appointees. They aren’t. It isn’t.
Holyrood does not have the luxury of entirety.
Captain Yossarian
***Beauvais – Westminster is not in charge; Holyrood is. That is what Holyrood is there to do for you and if you want a ferry, just order one. That’s all you have to do.**
Not as simple as that. We’d a world class ship designer (Ballantyne ) willing to do just that.
The Holyrood buroucracy got in his way. As he said, (Alf may correct me) no one takes a contract for a brand new design with continual, moveable specifications & an old boardroom who’d never been a day at sea in their life other than on paper. It was doomed to fail but we now know Sturgeon was a saboteur by then & the cringe embarrassment of taking the absolute pish out of a proud shipbuilding history with painted on fkn windows like we were something out of North Korea. Her chemical Ali moment. That wasn’t done by a nationalist government seeking it’s independence – that was deliberately done by a unionist one to make devolution seen as a disastrous, expensive joke. It achieved its aim with Sturgeon as she then moved onto dicks in frocks.
Not the Yes movements fault. They seen it as far back as 2017 & abandoned her as she lost her majorities but held on by what we now know are the Britnats – happy to vote SNP in the knowledge they can keep all the benefits while never achieving independence.
That’s why, moving forward, elections are genius & should have been accepted in 2018 when Chris & Angus suggested it. It sorts the wheat from the chaff.
Every election.
Choose indy or choose Yoon.
Choose Yoon then live with Yoon policies.
Choose indy then we’re out. No it’s, no buts..
Englands Westminster parliament Colonised the treaty of union agreement at the very early stages of a treaty of union concept between two the two kingdoms.
For Englands Westminster parliament states that the Scottish parliament extinguished itself from the treaty by the agreement.
Politically and under law of either kingdom, the parliament of Westminster is on its own in a treaty without the parliament of Scotland, the kingdom of Scotland or the Sovereign Scots.
After the Scottish parliament was extinguished from the treaty of parliamentary union by Englands parliament so early on, this left just Westminster parliament Colonising a treaty on its own does it not?
Think about it,
Without the Scottish parliament in the treaty of union, is Scotland and its people the last Colony of England and Westminster without a union of parliaments or a treaty?
Geri, I am in your gang.
Why did the parliament of England extinguish the parliament of Scotland in England?
@ “Westminster*just got things done*”
Like the “Glasgow effect”. Except it wasn’t, it was the Westminster effect.
Scotland’s population health was as good as most European countries until Thatcher.
“For Glasgow, the heightened vulnerability has been generated by a series of historical processes which have cumulatively impacted on the city’s population. These include:
• The lagged effect of high historical levels of deprivation: although analyses of
historical income and employment based measures of deprivation show few
differences between Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester over many decades,compared with these English cities, Glasgow (alongside other Scottish areas)endured notably higher levels of deprivation, as evidenced by overcrowding, from atleast the middle of the 20th century. This may represent an underlying vulnerability.
• A further level of vulnerability resulted from Scottish Office regional policy from the later 1950s, including the socially selective New Town programme. Policy was
aimed at relocating both industry and a section of the population (generally
younger, skilled workers, in employment, and often with families) to New Towns and
other growth areas across central Scotland, away from what had been designated a
‘declining’ city, as part of a wider regional ‘modernisation’ agenda focused on
attracting lighter industries. These other areas became the key priority in terms of
investment, and this policy was extended and expedited over the ensuing decades despite awareness of the negative consequences (both socioeconomic and also ultimately health-related) for Glasgow.
• Closely related to this evolving regional policy agenda, the nature (and scale) of
urban change experienced within Glasgow in the post-war period (1945-1980) was
different to that in the comparator cities. This is relevant to population health in
terms of social determinants such as housing, living conditions and social and
community networks. Glasgow differed from the comparator cities in terms of:larger-scale slum clearances and demolitions; larger within-city (poor quality)peripheral council house estates; greater emphasis on high-rise development; and crucially, much lower per capita investment in housing repairs and maintenance of the public housing stock.”
The insulting and pathetic below inflation pay rise threatened by Sunak
would leave Junior Doctors around 30% worse off than what they were a few years back.
To add insult he again deemed them unworthy of any future consultation.
The Scottish Governments award avoided strikes and further extending waiting lists
and adds up to 3 times greater and the English Junior Doctors increase over the next 2 years
So with the Tories sending them off to Australia where they earn 50% more for 20% less work and overtime payments, why am I not seeing adverts encouraging English Doctors to
relocate to Scotland where they and the NHS are valued and they can always negotiate and where housing and council tax rates are lower.
Let’s go get them in their thousands with a high profile campaign.
Whom is the holder and owner of the present voting Franchise in Scotland,
At one time not so long ago, it was under a Tory franchise.
This is something Scotland needs to be aware of if we want fairness in Scottish elections and votes counted on the spot in voting Stations, instead of traveling our votes to alternative sites, perhaps outside Scotland.
We used to be able to count votes at each polling station as soon as the voting had finished voting,
Scotland is still capable of counting each vote in each council area,
Unless the Councils are claiming they are dumb asses and have not got enough brains in the Council employees.
With independent watchers and cameras monetering the process in each Council,
It begs the question of the quality of intelligence of local Councillors in Scotland if they cannot count.
This is what we pay for, public services,
Why do the people in Scotland never wonder why there is no Scottish parliament in the treaty of Union.
“You forgot the SNHS, a wholly Scottish run clusterfuck since 1999.”
No one buys this “wholly Scottish run” shit.
Underfunding in England’s NHS underfunds Scotland’s NHS.
The block grant is not based on need and would be greater for NHS if it were.
This from the Nuffield Trust 2017.
“Scotland has a unique system of improving the quality of health care. It focuses on engaging the altruistic professional motivations of frontline staff to do better, and building their skills to improve. Success is defined based on specific measurements of safety and effectiveness that make sense to clinicians.
Scotland’s smaller size as a country supports a more personalised, less formal approach than in England. The Scottish NHS has also benefited from a continuous focus on quality improvement over many years. It uses a consistent, coherent method where better ways of working are tested on a small scale, quickly changed, and then rolled out. This is overseen by a single organisation that both monitors the quality of care and also helps staff to improve it.
While comparing performance is very difficult, Scotland has had particular success in some priority areas like reducing the numbers of stillbirths. Scotland’s system provides possible alternatives for an English system with a tendency towards too many short-term, top-down initiatives that often fail to reach the front line. It also provides one possible model for a Northern Irish NHS yet to have a pervasive commitment to quality improvement, and a Welsh system described as needing better ways to hold health boards to account while supporting them in improving care.”
“should scotland alone fund the subsidy paid by the whole of the uk at the moment?”
Monies from Scottish assets, probably ARE doing it right now.
England has been robbing Scotland from day one of this vile undemocratic union, we took on England’s £18 million debt, and not much later we were forced to pay the Malt tax, England has been stealing from Scotland ever since.
Scotland has contributed to the union (and then some) so much so that Westminster STOPPED producing public figures (1950’s) of how much more Scotland sent to the English governments coffers than it received in return.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-historical-debt/
England is stealing hundreds of million of pounds from Scotland every single day using accounting tricks, these tricks also make it appear that its Scotland that’s too wee, too poor, when infact Scotland is a wealthy country.
https://www.businessforscotland.com/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/
We need to dump this blood sucking union ASAP.
So the Keystone Cops aka Police Scotland were going to object to an AUOB march in Skye next month but have backed-off and decided to work with the AUOB instead of trying to hinder them.
The Skye AUOB route.
“The full route as it stands will be Kyle of Lochalsh Leisure centre, Douglas Row, Plock Street, Main Street, Stoney Rd, Skye Bridge (footpath), Caol Acain, Kyleside, grass area in front of Kings Arms Hotel, Kyleakin.”
I suppose backing-off is in Police Scotland’s nature, with the O/O allowed to swamp Scotland with vile racist chants and sectarian music blasted out in the streets of Scotland without any legal recriminations.
I doubt much will change in the coming years with the Boris Johnson ally Jo Farrow appointed to the head of Police Scotland, and the diehard Britnat LA, who not only embarrassed herself with regards to not having the confidence to decide if Scotland had the competency to hold an indyref and sending it to England to decide, she also shamed Scotland with that gutless decision.
If Scots are not to afraid to admit that the Scottish parliament is not in the treaty of union. It resets the need for a voting franchise, or elections on Scots and Scotland independence.
It is a constant point of curiosity why Scottish politicians and media have acted like gatekeepers in protecting the union,
Why have they never told Scots that their Scottish parliament and Country/ kingdom has not been in the treaty of parliamentary union for over three hundred years.
What kind of people are these that avoid hitting the nail on the head politically?
This includes the Snp and Alba.
That they continue to pretend the original Scottish parliament is still in the treaty?
They have long had this information, had access to political papers in Westminster,
And yet have never told the Scottish people.
SORRY DID YOU SCOTS NOT KNOW?
THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT HAS NEVER BEEN IN A TREATY OF UNION,
THE TREATY WAS CUT SHORT BY EXTINGUISHING THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT IN ENGLAND and from the TREATY’ PRIOR TO ANY MEMBERS OF THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT BEING ELECTED as YOUR SCOTTISH REPRESENTATIVES!
SORRY FOR THE OMITTING or NOT PASSING ON THIS INFO to YOU SCOTTISH PEOPLE IN SCOTLAND.
Though you have to admit WE FOOLED YOU FOR OVER THREE HUNDRED YEARS.
Why would the SNP and AlBA avoid and omit talking about the very big elephant in the room and not tell the Scottish people?
“Underfunding in England’s NHS underfunds Scotland’s NHS”
Very true.
The English NHS is well under way to privatisation, Scotland’s will head further down this rabbbit hole as well, if we don’t dissolve this undemocratic prison of a union first and save it from such a nasty fate.
https://weownit.org.uk/blog/nhs-being-systematically-dismantled-privatisation
It is to be encouraged that the Snp and Alba debate this issue with the supportors of Scottish independence,
Even if it is shot down, the discussion and topic still needs to be aired if they want our support,
To convince us they are on our side.
There was a blogger recently that dismissed the question like a politician brushing of native flies.
(Not Stu or Wings over Scotland it must be emphasised.)
But another semi popular blogger,
Why did they wish to avoid a discussion on the fact that Scotlands parliament has been extinguished from the treaty of union for over three hundred years,
It leaves a sour taste and a stinking smell that some maybe here to make a profit from never gaining Scotlands independence,
It reminds one of the other blogger who wanted finances for a house.
And major historical information must be avoided and not bought to light in Scotland,
When the major leaders and media outlets for Scottish independence avoid the elephant in the room and shut down the topic,
I do not consider those people any more genuine than the Snp have been on looking at all angles and goals to independence for Scotland,
There appear to be to many Daniel De Foe’s and one wonders who supports them when they close possible avenues and topics down like unionist.
Sorry for the rant to genuine Scottish seeking independence supportors,
Just Trying to sort the wheat from the chaff.
James Che said;
“Why did the parliament of England extinguish the parliament of Scotland in England?”
It didn’t; the Treaty did that when it went live, and it did the same to England’s Parliament as well. Both former parliaments were replaced by the brand new Union parliament, so the old ones were completely redundant, with no remaining authority in either kingdom. That was agreed, and is not contentious.
The fact that Scotland’s parliament ceased to exist before the new one went live has no significance; it was never a body that sat permanently anyway, it was only called to sit as and when matters of sufficient importance or urgency needed dealt with. Sometimes years could go by between sittings.
What is contentious, and has never been properly addressed, is the unwarranted domination of Scotland’s MPs by England’s MPs in Westminster’s voting system. England’s MPs only outnumber the Scots MPs, they are not entitled to outvote them.
Scotland’s MPs represent the Scottish partner in the Union, and that partner is a sovereign kingdom, just as English partner’s kingdom is sovereign, so neither kingdom has any legal or constitutional authority over the other, so that means England’s MPs can have no authority over Scotland or her MPs. In turn that means England’s MPs have no right to overrule the Scots MPs on any matter.
But they do that constantly, and England’s establishment lets them off with it, knowing it can’t be justified. The Scots and their MPs should be hauling England’s MPs out to Westminster’s back yard and soundly teaching them the many errors of their ways.
“Why do the people in Scotland never wonder why there is no Scottish parliament in the treaty of Union.”
Because it’s not a sensible concern, James, as I’ve explained on several occasions, and it never has been. Just as they never wonder why there is no English parliament in the treaty of Union. Both were made redundant by the new Parliament of Great Britain.
Technically they could have been retained, but there would have been no purpose for them to serve.
James Che at 2:35 pm.
“Why would the SNP and AlBA avoid and omit talking about the very big elephant in the room and not tell the Scottish people?”
Because your argument has no merit? If you truly believe it’s a game-changer do something with it instead of just posting it here ad infinitum. You made your interpretation based on material found on the Scottish Law Society pages, I think. What do they make of your interpretation? Will any eager young barristers seize the initiative and make a name for themselves? Or is it hocum? Find out.
Rev tweeted the link below.
46% of Scots believe that Westminster has too much influence over Scottish affairs and that Holyrood/FM should have more power over big issues.
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-voters-views-on-the-scottish-governments-autonomy/
Ian Brotherhood says:
14 July, 2023 at 3:25 pm
Rev tweeted the link below.
46% of Scots believe that Westminster has too much influence over Scottish affairs and that Holyrood/FM should have more power over big issues.
You’re aware that’s a minority, right?
The sensible majority (albeit it’s a surprisingly narrow divide) would regard giving those hopeless chancers and perverts in Holyrood even more powers as madness. At what point do you stop rewarding failure?
Scotland had the sleepy slumber of voting Labour who still sit to this day in the HoL dreaming up cannie ways to lock Scots into the rancid union – against Scots will if need be. (Kezia knt with her new Act of Union/McConnell with his fcking ermine cloak dressed as an eejit)
We have arseholes amongst us. The parcel of rogues never left.
It’s my understanding, as the treaty of Union was never agreed, it continued on through convention.
Alex Salmond wasn’t in power when devolution was introduced, but by *convention* it was agreed there was absolutely nothing stopping Scotland becoming an independent nation should a majority favour it. Of course we could hold refs.
We did. 2014 happened & a NO vote.
Again it was agreed that there was absolutely nothing stopping us becoming independent in the future (Smith Commission)
We did. (GE 2015/16/17/19)
Now it’s flat out denied. Labour, those cheerleaders of social justice & democracy (anywhere but you, Scotland) are rabid democracy deniers without the slightest hint of shame. It’s not new. They denied & failed to recognise Scotland’s democracy even before Holyrood was built (’79 let’s count the dead as a no vote – WTAF?)
The question has to be:
What changed from 2014 onwards, by whom & on whose authority?
A lesson when it comes to our exit. Accept absolutely hee-haw terms with England if it hasn’t had a team of international lawyers pour over it & compiled into official legal documents. The britnats are expert liars & double dealers. Slippery barstewards. Their word stands for hee-haw.
I’ll never understand the mind of a Scottish unionist cheer on their own country’s extinction. That’s if they even are Scottish. England would get shot of them in a heartbeat if they had a referendum. The powers that be won’t ever call one tho because the North sea is paying out billions like a demented cashline machine.
They need to show us THEIR money. Get an English devolved parliament up as soon as possible & we can pour over THEIR figures & laugh at the loony choons of garden bridges & water cannons & every other hair brained scheme they’ve wasted copious amounts of Scotlands revenues on. Scotland’s ferry disaster would pale in significance to the clusterfk of London’s Mayor’s. Conveniently ignored by the Scottish britnat contingent.
Bojo wanted a London fund LOL!
I agree. Get right to it & show us yer money through an English devolved parliament & it’s full accounts.
James Jones
You are aware the SNP is a political party, right?
& That political parties can change. Every 5 yrs.
4yrs if Dumbza changes it back to before the Tories changed it.
72% of Scotland voted for Holyrood at the time.
Scotland was happy with Holyrood before Sturgeon went batshit narcissist & just like Thatcher did – doesn’t know how to read the room, wont leave the building, won’t collect yer desk plant & fck off out of everyone’s sight.
An amputated Scotland would become Cuba, but without the ability to grow sugar cane or bananas or pineapples.
Tatties; neeps; sheep. A few tonnes of fish. That’s about all.
The oil has mostly run out. The cost of de-commissioning the platforms and pipelines already exceeds the potential market net value of the remaining oil.
Creating an artificial fiat currency ( A groat? or a Bawbee?) would be unsustainable because the cost of sustaining its value on the money markets would be unaffordable.
Begging a loan from the IMF would result in a demand to hand over title to nationalised assets such as Prestwick and the hopelessly dysfunctional shipyards such as Ferguson and hopelessly badly run and financed Western Isles ferry company. All of which have negative net capital value.
If we’d voted for self-amputation in the once in a lifetime referendum we’d be comprehensively fucked by now.
Ian Brotherhood
Great link, thanks.
I stand corrected – it was 74%
I’ll read it in full later.
“If we’d voted ”
What do you mean “WE” you’re a Britnat shill/mouthpiece/Chinthe/useful idiot, who post copious amounts of shite in here.
This is jaw-dropping stuff.
21stcenturywire.com/2023/07/13/scott-ritter-investigation-agent-zelensky-part-1/
OT may be of interest to some.
CAP payments in the Perthshire PH postcode area increased from 53 million in 2021 to to 77 million in 2022
https://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk/SearchResults.aspx
Folk can search other areas should they wish.
Geri,
you won’t understand anything, ever.
Ebenezer Scroggie says: at 4:23 pm
“.An amputated Scotland would become Cuba, but without the ability to grow sugar cane or bananas or pineapples.
Tatties; neeps; sheep. A few tonnes of fish. That’s about all.
..”
#RoasterWatch
Should you really be huffing class A stimulants so early on a Friday evening.
@”At what point do you stop rewarding failure?”
Holyrood’s corruption and incompetence is just not in the same league as UK government.
From “How Corrupt is Britain?”
“The post-2008 crash was a moment when, in most liberal democracies, the illusion of the global triumph of corporate power over the nation state was shattered as governments around the globe scrambled
to save their banks. When the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling completed his £500 billion bank bail-out deal in October 2008,he did so before it could be debated in Parliament. This decision,perhaps
the most high-impact political decision in recent memory, has ensured that Britain will remain in a perpetual fiscal and public sector funding crisis for a long time to come. The deal was thrashed out behind closed doors between leading bankers, politicians and senior civil servants. But
was this corruption? Certainly it was never reported as such, and there has never been any serious questioning in the mainstream news media of this process as an illegal or unconstitutional one. It is nothing short
of incredible that in liberal democracies like the United Kingdom, so much public funding could be so simply transferred from government to the ‘private’ sector with a settlement which was, according to Darling’s
autobiography, negotiated with a hand-picked group of elite bankers over a Balti takeaway.”
Geri at 4:23 pm
“You are aware the SNP is a political party, right?”
For now they are, yes. Due to all the incompetence and corruption you’d have to expect their days to be numbered unless the voters blindly stick to the, “Freeeedommm!” battle cry and elect more of the same.
If devolution was a stepping stone to independence the Scots have simply fallen in.
North sea oil and gas tax receipts as a percentage of UK GDP peaked at 3% in the mid ‘80s, plateaued around 0.5% thereafter and are currently at 0.1%. It’s a lot of money but is it enough to base independence upon? As far as I can tell it made a lot of fat cats fatter but didn’t noticeably improve the lives of ordinary Brits.
Talk of “Scotland’s oil” misses the point that you can tax whoever has the ability to drill for it but the profits are theirs. Ok, so you raise the tax until they decide it’s not worth their while but that’s a fairly low bar considering the risk they’re taking.
But what if you privatise the industry? Put it into the hands of career politicians with no idea, and disincentivise the professionals but Scot’s supposedly get free fossil fuels for as long as they last. Nothing is free though, so you’d pay the Scottish government for it, and they’d offer favourable terms of course…
National resources offer a reliable supply but not necessarily a cheap one.
Xaracen
Word play and not very astute on recorded history.
The parliament of Scotland does not have any representative in Westminster due to the Scottish parliament have been extinguished prior to elections and selections having taking place,
The Westminster parliament did not dissolve when the treaty of union was supposed to come into being.
Under the English parliament of Westminster the passed an Act callec the triennial act, that referred to members in Westminster having elections every third year,
The end of that triennial year of the english parliament would have taken place in 1708.
Westminster parliament cid indeed hold that election in 1708.
The members of the parliament of England were not elected to the parliament of The newly named GB parliament but were simply transferred under proclamation by Queen Anne.
Both of these are evidence that the old parliament of England did not dissolve when the treaty came alive but simply continued under a new name.
So did the numbers of acts and legislation records recorded continue in there numerical order from the english parliament of Westminster to the GB Westminster parliament,
The Acts of Scotland you suggest that created the treaty regardless of wether the Scottish parliament was extinguished, were not international acts, nor were they English parliament acts.
They were made and passed in Scottish parliament by domestic acts,
Without the Scottish parliament still being in existence neither are Scotlands domestic Acts.
England could not hijack or steal these acts to use as English acts,
Without the Scottish parliament these domestic acts of Scotland cannot become international acts at all.
With out the Scottish parliament still existing the English parliament had no way to retrieve or use these Scottish acts.
There was no law passed in Scotland transferring these domestic acts for westminsters sole use without Scotlands parliament.
Englands parliament contrived a treaty of union without a Scottish parliament, without the Scottish domestic acts still being extant, without Scottish representative from the Scottish parliament, with out a vote going to the people of Scotland,
While still operating as the transferred parliament of England into the Self proclaimed but unelected parliament of the united kingdom of Great Britain.
The elections in 1708 in Westminster continued the English parliament, until the triennial act was completely repealed in 2010.
sam at 5:02 pm
@”At what point do you stop rewarding failure?”
“Holyrood’s corruption and incompetence is just not in the same league as UK government.”
Holyrood hasn’t shown any superior qualities within the narrower confines of devolved government, so would you give them greater powers so they can be incompetent on an equal footing? I suspect they’d surpass Westminster.
Xaracen.
The etymology of the scottish parliament closing before the Scottish parliament represenatives Could be chosen matters considerable,
Because other wise you are not chosen members from a parliament of Scotland, but simply random wealthy men,
This does not join a parliamentary union of treaty between two parliaments and kingdoms.
It makes a treaty only with those private individuals in Scotland that put their signature on that piece of paper.they call a treaty.
@James Jones (6.28) –
Scotland hasn’t yet had a government in Holyrood which genuinely wants independence. That much is now plain.
We did our bit by voting but if those elected choose to renege on their promises, what are we to do?
The desire for a return to full independence is greater than any party, especially one so thoroughly compromised and rotten as the one in place. There is no evidence that the desire among the citizens has waned.
So far as the ‘subsidy junkie’ myth goes, we’ve dealt with that so many times it’s becoming embarrassing. If you haven’t seen this already, please watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB4bmJmOeNc
James Jones says: at 5:45 pm
“National resources offer a reliable supply but not necessarily a cheap one.”
Cheers for that stellar insight mate, it’s just that I had already noticed I was paying extortionate prices for my energy whilst the corporate power companies were announcing huge profits.
The trouble is I can’t do anything about it as Scottish energy resources policy is effectively determined by a foreign government in London. And I can do fuck all to change that because England with its 10 to 1 democratic advantage over Scotland continues to elect cunts that won’t rectify this situation.
So if it’s all the same to you, I’ll take my chance with a Scottish national government I and my fellow Scots can at least kick out of power should they take the piss or fail us.
As an aside, I guess Scottish oil derivatives still have a worth as so many English folk must Vaseline lube up to stop the chaffing from perpetual humping they endure.
James Jones
***unless the voters blindly stick to the, “Freeeedommm!” battle cry and elect more of the same.***
Stop with the slurs. The only ones to ever shout that were the britnats during the vote leave campaign & the parrot that was Farage.
Sturgeon voters are a mix of Unionists. Safe in the knowledge the SNP under Sturgeon was going absolutely nowhere so they could vote for her in Holyrood & not pay bed tax, prescriptions, child care, school meals etc but vote NO in a referendum if it ever happened ! Nuts? Aye, that’s britnats for you.
We seen that exactly played out during the leadership contest as the unionist public went absolutely ballistic on Twitter at how mad Ash Regan was for daring to make every election an indyref from now on to break the deadlock. *That wasn’t fair* they cried because they like the best of both worlds & the Ash plan was to remove it.
Pick one side or the other.
& We seen Britnat SNP MPs & MSPs back the donkey
who promised to continue the nonsense & a membership later confirm it. (Albeit under dubious circumstances)
So there you have it. The SNP IS NOT an Independence party & hasn’t been since 2017. Some remain but I suspect it’s mainly Greens, perverts & unionists.
Something turned Sturgeon in that hotel room with Mayhem. She went completely rogue after that. I guess we’ll never know what she was either offered or threatened with. As it was carried out in a hotel, and not the FMs official residence or official government office, there’ll have been no minutes recorded & off the record.
Anyway, Sturgeon LOST over 70K members & a shit load of seats since 2017. *Real* indy support had already left the building absolutely scunnered at numerous mandates unused. She lured them back in 2021 elections because they believed we were having a ref in October. Huge mistake – as she transferred the winning indy vote to the Greens perverts charter instead.
That’s why she’s walked. There was absolutely nowhere for her to go after that. Her final fk you to the Yes movement.
Re. James Jones claim “Holyrood hasn’t shown any superior qualities within the narrower confines of devolved government.”
From before the SNP got captured.
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/the-snps-achievements/
@James Jones 6.28pm
“Holyrood hasn’t shown any superior qualities within the narrower confines of devolved government, so would you give them greater powers so they can be incompetent on an equal footing? I suspect they’d surpass Westminster.”
All mouth and no trousers. Suspect what you like. I’m not supporting the SNP.Just saying that it would take some going to cost the UK £500 billion because of an ideology that prevents adequate scrutiny of banks and then continues to follow on from that by allowing them to act illegally by fixing exchange rates and LIBOR.
Of course, that’s only one example of the wholly corrupt UK government.
The failure adequately to regulate hospitals has cost hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives and mutilated patients. A whole string of scandals.
The latest shows how ineffective are the inquiries into the scandals which keep on happening.
2009: East Kent Hospitals NHS Trust becomes a foundation trust.
2014: The trust is put into special measures following an inspection by the Care Quality Commission (CQC) which rated its care, including maternity services, as inadequate. Investigations began into eight neonatal deaths.
2015: The Morecome Bay report is published into failures at a Cumbrian hospital that led to the deaths of 11 babies. Written by Dr Bill Kirkup, who heads the East Kent investigation, he said it was vital these lessons were also learnt by other trusts.
2016: A Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists review finds significant problems across East Kent hospitals. A Maternity Improvement Plan is launched, overseen by NHS England.
2018: The Healthcare Safety Investigations Branch investigates and also finds failings.
2020: The inquest into the death of Harry Richford sees various reports and concerns laid bare in front of the coroner. It emerges the trust failed to complete 21 recommendations made by the 2016 RCOG review. A new independent review, headed by Dr Kirkup, is announced.
2021: The trust is fined £733,000 for failures in its care of Harry Richford.
2022: Result of the independent review published.
Then there is this (also from the BBC).
David Fuller, 67, filmed himself abusing at least 100 bodies in two Kent hospital morgues over 12 years.
It comes after Fuller, of Heathfield, East Sussex, admitted murdering Wendy Knell and Caroline Pierce in 1987.
Sajid Javid told the Commons the inquiry would look at the offences and their “national implications”.
He said: “It will help us understand how these offences took place without detection in the trust, identify any areas where early action by the trust was necessary, and then consider wider national issues, including for the NHS.”
First Savile, then this. Necrophilia – national sport of the English.
London is the money laundering capital of the world. Don’t think even this crap SNP can match that.
Ian Brotherhood at 6:48 pm
“So far as the ‘subsidy junkie’ myth goes…”
I wasn’t referring to a UK subsidy, I was doubting whether taxing energy production was a viable core policy to sustain a public-sector heavy independent Scotland.
Geri at 6:54 pm.
“Sturgeon voters are a mix of Unionists.”
Seriously, you think unionists elected the SNP. When will Scots take responsibility for their actions?
Sam says at 7:12 pm.
Keep voting SNP, you scary man. Albeit no one here seems to want to admit to voting SNP. Hilarious.
@sam how confident are you that similar reports and investigations would ever happen under the current SNP/Green regime? The AS inquiry kind of gave us a flavour of how transparent the SG is. The UK government is in imo held to account at a level we can only dream about in this country. They might duck it up but there is accountability unlike Holyrood.
This is all going very well. The Indynauts all falling out with themselves, and going to split their vote at the next election.
Den says: at 7:39 pm
“The UK government is in imo held to account at a level we can only dream about in this country. They might duck it up but there is accountability unlike Holyrood.”
Aye, yon Chilcot Inquiry didn’t half hold them to account…
And more recently did or will the taxpayers ever get back all that covid cash dispensed to themselves and their mates.
@Geri (6.54) –
That has to be one of the oddest encounters of Sturgeon’s time as FM. Remember the stushie the following day when the Scottish red-tops decided to go with front page shite about who had the best legs? I don’t recall any mainstream journalist asking why on earth they were meeting in a riverside hotel. (A reasonable guess might be that they both knew Bute House and the Holyrood parliament are bugged from top to bottom.)
And the usual howls of ‘conspiracy theory’ ring a bit hollow these days. If anything, the fear is that it’s all been deeper and dirtier than any of us could have imagined.
I saw a tweet earlier which had stills from Sturgeon’s Jan 2021 speech, it shows her smirking/smiling. Looks very much like so-called ‘duper’s delight’. That was the same day this place published ‘The Betrayer’ – not ashamed to admit I was one of those who took it hard. Easy with hindsight to see that you were being taken for a ride but at the time?
Nah. She’ll never be forgiven. And whatever happened in that hotel room will come out eventually. Hopefully she’ll read about it in jail and remember how nice her legs looked in the photies.
twitter.com/indyscotnews/status/1679854134734749696
@James Jones (7.15) –
‘I wasn’t referring to a UK subsidy…’
Yes, I know you weren’t. And neither was I. But you know that already don’t you?
Not interested in splitting hairs with you. If you have anything to say about the Jappy video I’m sure we’d all be delighted to hear it.
Xaracen.
What is the parliamentary union wirhout two parliament in the union.
With out two representations of both parliaments before the are extinguished,
Your analyses leaves a one parliament treaty of non union of parliaments.
And wealthy mem inScotland randonly offering their services to The parliament down south for a bit of cash,
It also leaves Scotland out side the treaty.
Ian B @ 4.40
Jaw-dropping indeed ; as is the public’s capacity to be sold , and buy the most outrageous distortion/s of reality . Understandable , given the almost total control of public awareness held by MSM – now nothing more than an * arm * of State . The * Entertainment * media now equally compliant .
It seems there is no lie too enormous ( and blatant ) that it won’t be perpetrated on and believed by the masses .
The latest one may prove to be the most lethal .
Xaracen,
Are you saying Some random men from Scotland are in a treaty of union with Westminster,
And it doesn’t matter The Scottish parliament was ousted out the treaty and extinguished from it down south.
The rest of Scots never had a vote to join in the first instance.
The Scottish parliament domestic acts are null and void.
The you think we should believe the whole of Scotland is somehow or other as if by magic in a treaty of union with England.
THIS IS WHY this issue and topic on the treaty of union should be thoroughly discussed and aired in Scotland by all the politicians and media bloggers.
I don’t vote for the SNP, James Jones.
“The UK government is in imo held to account at a level we can only dream about in this country.” @Den @7.39 pm.
That’s just what you are doing, dreaming about it.
£500 billion wasted because ideology says private companies could not adequately be regulated and you dream there is accountability. When after the cost is incurred, transferring money from the public sector to the private in a deal that was never debated or discussed, the same lack of regulation -accountability, you jerk – allows the banks to fleece us illegally by fixing rates.
How’s that Edinburgh Trams Inquiry going? Anything to report yet? Another cover-up?
Ian Brotherhood says:
14 July, 2023 at 8:03 pm
@James Jones (7.15) –
‘I wasn’t referring to a UK subsidy…’
“Yes, I know you weren’t. And neither was I. But you know that already don’t you?”
Eh ? So why did you mention it?
@sam When we getting a public inquiry into the tax money missing at Ferguson marine and the lochaber smelter running into millions. You think that will ever happen ? and since we are trading insults.. ya fanny
Den – Quite agree. The London Evening Standard and the Daily Telegraph also do a great job in holding Westminster parliamentarians to account. What I detect from reading these pages is that there is still a reluctance to accept how bad it is in Scotland. I was hoping that Operation Branchform would show that the Police had not been tainted over the past 10-years. I haven’t made my mind-up yet whether they have or they haven’t. We’ll soon know the answer to that though.
Angus McNeil. We need him to go on the prism show.
I need to hear him say, Sturgeon’s tried to stop discussions about Independence.
I want to hear an SNP MP say that the party has been stolen from beneath us.
By people wanting to settle down not settle up.
Big Eck’s interviewing the wind turbines men.
We know they’ve tried to steal Scotland from us all.
Scottish independence supporters may catch on now why unionists and politicians do not want this topic aired.
Scotland is not in a treaty with England at all.
Just some private random Scottish individual blokes who were not members of the extinguished Scottish parliament any longer signed a agreement with the English parliament.
Well that settles that as far as the lie to ( Scotland )goes of being in a international treaty of union.
Were not even signed up to it.
The Scottish parliament domestic acts are not signed up to a treaty of union.
The Scots are not signed up to the treaty of union,
The magic union roundaboutry.
sam at 8:24 pm
“I don’t vote for the SNP, James Jones.”
Yes, yes, we’ve established that no one here voted SNP. The denial is biblical. I’m just amazed they got in.
Angus McNeil. Indy freedom fighter. Whistleblower. Guardian of Independence.
Until the last Scottish rebel.
Get the story told on The Scottish Prism show.
We need to hear from the horses mouth itself, that the SNP have been sabotaged Nicola Sturgeon the Indy Swindler.
ASA.
I meant to enquire out of curiousity what grain produce and animals types are on yer sisters farm?
Not enquiring about accounts, so you need n’t go of on one,
Just curios as I did a bit of farming at one time,
@captain Y . The polis are in it up to their necks.I do not believe Livingston never gave Brown the heads up on the impending implosion at Murrell Towers
I’ll post this again since Che is trying to ignore it, repeat himself and is afraid to put his notion to the test.
James Jones says:
14 July, 2023 at 3:20 pm
James Che at 2:35 pm.
“Why would the SNP and AlBA avoid and omit talking about the very big elephant in the room and not tell the Scottish people?”
Because your argument has no merit? If you truly believe it’s a game-changer do something with it instead of just posting it here ad infinitum. You made your interpretation based on material found on the Scottish Law Society pages, I think. What do they make of your interpretation? Will any eager young barristers seize the initiative and make a name for themselves? Or is it hocum? Find out.
Another good reason to ignore trolls (as if there weren’t enough already) is that blanking them is good practise for later on.
Because there is no ‘room for negotiation’ any longer. That would only be possible if you had two parties with opposing views looking for arbitration of some kind. That isn’t going to happen for the simple fact that there is no genuine opposition to WM hegemony. The two parliaments want the same thing – continuity.
But continuity, as personified in Yousaf, isn’t acceptable to approx 50% of the Scottish population. And they have no way of expressing that dissatisfaction. And there’s no prospect of them being ‘granted’ an opportunity to voice that frustration anytime soon. (Forget ‘general’ elections.)
Before you actually start fighting with someone there’s always that pause, the possibility that some sliver of common ground may be found. But we’re way past that.
We know from long and weary that we’re not dealing with people who act in good faith. For whatever reason (I favour the ‘public school = sociopath’ theory meself) these characters in WM/Whitehall have proved, time and time again, that they are not to be trusted.
So we shouldn’t talk to them. Period.
You might be persuaded to sit down and have a supervised chat with someone who robbed your garden shed. (It’s the ‘nice’ thing to do, innit?) But you would have to be a mental case to do it with people who are renowned globally for literally fucking and killing anyone they encountered on their piratical ‘crusades’.
Alex Salmond, as usual, is showing the way with his new show via Twitter etc. Getting out there and talking to the people who actually make things and do things in Scotland, not just going through the motions in yet another television debate with unionists who don’t want to be there any more than he does.
So maybe Alex, Angus (and Ash?) and others could adopt a more ‘pragmatic’ approach when dealing with a unionist press which has learned nothing from the whole referendum experience, despite the assurances we heard from yon ‘Donalda’ character?
Tell them nothing.
Refuse to participate in the usual set-piece debates.
Make them understand that the discussions being held right now are between serious people preparing for Scotland to be independent again and that time-wasters, tractors and quizmasters are not privy to those conversations – they have no right to be present because they are bad actors i.e. enemies of Scotland and they deserve to be described and treated as such.
Glove down.
James Jones says:
**Seriously, you think unionists elected the SNP. When will Scots take responsibility for their actions?**
Yes. We seen it on full display during the leadership contest. Ash Regan offered independence right there on the table for the taking…it was rejected.
Every single election to be an indyref vote from now on.
Don’t want indy? Vote Yoon & live with their policies.
Simple.
Twitter unionists went into meltdown crying that wasn’t fair. They vote SNP but don’t want independence. As I said, £600 million of mitigation meant that unionists could vote for the SNP to run Holyrood safe to know that they could vote no if ever there was an indyref called.
They had the best of both worlds & it created the stalemate.
Ash removing that option sent them into a frenzy. SNP MSPs, MPs & the membership rejected that proposal. Crazy for a supposed indy party eh? They all started gassing like Better Together had just put on a comeback gig with them leading the charge rowing back on independence.
We’ll soon see who votes for them. They have absolutely zero to offer the Yes movement who will find another indy political party. SNP seems to want to style itself now as a new Labour party in Scotland.
I’ll place my vote to whoever puts forward Ash’s proposal. That looks like Alba & a few other indy organisations at the moment on a united ticket.
It’ll sort the wheat from the chaff.
James Jones
Re Act of Union/ Scotland’s constitution
They already are.
Salvo.
Liberation.
SSRG.
Independence live covering various hosts.
Loads of YouTube video on parliament debates..
You must think indy is only spoken about on here..it isn’t.
Ian Brotherhood at 10:23 pm
“Another good reason to ignore trolls (as if there weren’t enough already) is that blanking them is good practise for later on.
… Tell them nothing.
Refuse to participate in the usual set-piece debates.
Make them understand that the discussions being held right now are between serious people preparing for Scotland to be independent again and that time-wasters, tractors and quizmasters are not privy to those conversations – they have no right to be present,”
Lol! So don’t engage in debate with independence cynics because you don’t have the answers they need. Yet somehow you expect to get a significant majority. Delusional.
Captain Yossarian,
People here aren’t pleased about how any Scottish government wastes our money, anyone involved should be hauled over the coals for it, full stop.
You remind me of what Nixon once said “there will be no whitewash in the White House” when talking about Westminster.
I think Westminster is Champions league level when it comes to corruption and Holyrood are Sunday league amateurs in comparison.
I understand that it’s important to cling tightly to the comfort blanket of the UK believing that it’s not actually a pish sodden rag. I feel your pain.
Regarding the trams, if I remember correctly it was your beloved Labour who signed all the shit contracts and it ended up in the lap of Alex Salmond’s SNP when they formed the government.
That was never supposed to happen, New Labour we’re going to rule the roost in Scotland forever.
Now we have the exact same hubris of the New SNP ready to repeat history.
*were
**Yes, yes, we’ve established that no one here voted SNP. The denial is biblical. I’m just amazed they got in.**
They got in because they told us there was going to be a ref this year.
The wheels come off that idea when her unionist lord advocate claimed she didn’t know the law & better check with her English colonial masters. What a relief for Sturgeon when they broke international law & the treaty of Union to rule against any exit at all.
They are not our masters.
Beauvais says:
13 July, 2023 at 8:12 am
“As Stu says, those left in the SNP who are genuinely and not just notionally pro-indy must follow Angus McNeil’s lead and leave that wasted party.”
Sorry, far too late IMHO, including MacNeil.
The time to leave was when ALBA was formed.
The final final deadline to leave was when Yousaf was ‘elected’ leader.
Feeling sorry for poor Chris. Nothing much has happened this week. What can he make a cartoon out of?
Is splitting the vote, in Scotland, really a concern at the next election?
What does it matter, when we’re constantly told by those already elected, with several mandates for a referendum.. “The people of Scotland will decide when it’s time for independence”?
YES. The process for self-determination, involves taking those same politicians to court, to demand a referendum, to end the Union, then immediately sacking the remainder of the same bastards, via the first election, thereafter!
Breastplate – All agreed on that.
Ian @ 10.23
Spot-on post .
” Tell them nothing.
Refuse to participate in the usual set-piece debates.
” Make them understand that the discussions being held right now are between serious people preparing for Scotland to be independent again and that time-wasters, tractors and quizmasters are not privy to those conversations – they have no right to be present because they are bad actors i.e. enemies of Scotland and they deserve to be described and treated as such. ”
Exactly right . Let’s start here by a policy of non-engagement with what seems like a multiplying presence of disruptive ” ye cannae dae this/that/the other ” merchants . Let them talk to themselves , though they’ll soon fuck-off if starved of the oxygen of attention .
I’m happy to talk with anyone about HOW we get Independence ; not even slightly interested in talking about IF we should aspire to that state . Particularly with bams who will never support that aspiration and are only here to disrupt , distract and annoy those who do .
Excellent posts by Geri & Breastplate also .
To take back control, the first action, by the People of Scotland, is to sue Blackford and the entire Scottish National Party, by petition of the courts, to demand a referendum to end the Union!
Under Scots Law, we are entitled to access the full processes of democracy! It’s no secret!
Politicians are there to serve us, not the other way round!
No matter the result of the next election, there is no hiding place for those representatives! The People of Scotland, will most certainly decide on the future of Scotland, regardless of the final seat count! The full force of Scots Law, will be brought to bear!
Great piece by Leah on Yours for Scotland
I mentioned this a few days ago, the case of the BBC presenter. It was reviewed by the Met for a week and they decided that there was no criminality involved. Everyone has accepted that. It will never go to court. It has been a tragic case for everyone, but that is the end of it.
Why did that not happen with Salmond? The charges always appeared to me to be very trivial, even if true.
There was one serious charge, but why was that not investigated properly by the Police, before the case went to trial? You know, was the complainer in the building at the time the alleged attack took place? That sort of thing.
This, along with Operation Branchform and the inordinate time that is taking, gives me the feeling that all is not right at Police Scotland. I really hope that I am wrong about that.
@ Captain Yossarian
You may want to have a read through this link to the various articles relating to COPFS on this site.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/?s=copfs
Dan – Thanks for that. The point that I am making, and it is made by your article too, is that the law should be politically neutral. It shouldn’t matter which part of the political divide you are from, the law should be there to dispense equal justice for all and to protect the public. Has that happened in the BBC presenters case? Yes, I think that everyone accepts that it has. Has that happened in Alex Salmond’s case? Is that happening in the Operation Branchform case? These are the questions, aren’t they?
Dan – one final thing I would say on this for today and it is that I am not a Nationalist, as you know, but I am not a strong Unionist either.
Alex Salmond is a guy that I respect for what he has achieved and I have no problem with him at all. The same would be said, I’m pretty sure, by all at Westminster.
If we have reached a point in Scotland vis a vis politics and law, where Alex Salmond is viewed any differently than I am setting-out here, then do we have a problem?
Captain Yossarian,
I’m reminded of a time I was attending a Wings get together a few years ago. It was at Dow’s and the Wings event was upstairs and I had entered the pub downstairs and was looking around to see if I could recognise anyone, it was busy.
Anyway, it must have been obvious I was searching for something when a young man asked me if I was a Nationalist, his tone made it obvious that he disapproved of such things. I answered “Yes, the same as you.”
“Naw, am no’” came the instant reply.
I pointed out that I was a Scottish Nationalist and he was a British Nationalist much to the amusement of his two friends.
Captain Yossarian, we’re all Nationalists whether we want to admit it or not.
Geri says on 14 July 2023 at 10:26 pm: “We seen it on full display during the leadership contest. Ash Regan offered independence right there on the table for the taking…it was rejected.”
Precisely! Some folk believe there are still “good folk” in the SNP. I disagree. I liken these, supposedly, “good folk” to those at the BBC during the predatory reign of Jimmy Savile who knew what was going on but kept their mouths shut. Children were being molested by that beast and certain individuals preferred to safeguard their careers rather than speak up.
Angus *may* be the exception to that rule but it took him long enough to actually stand up. And only now that his membership has been suspended is he writing damning letters and exposing the current crop of clueless SNP troughers for not being interested in delivering our right to self-determination.
What’s that old saying? Something like: All it takes for evil to flourish is for “good folk” to do nothing. “Good folk” don’t look the other way when atrocities are taking place. Good folk don’t look the other way while London strips Scotland bare of all its resources, regardless of how much hush-money is being served up at the trough. And regardless of how much silk they’re offered to line their own nests.
And it’s not as if there isn’t another credible pro-indy party available to join. Some use the excuse it’s better to stay and fight from the inside. Well, that may very well be true but you first have to know how to fight, and then actually start fighting. Massey Fergusons, every one of them.
James Che said;
“The Westminster parliament did not dissolve when the treaty of union was supposed to come into being.
Under the English parliament of Westminster the passed an Act callec the triennial act, that referred to members in Westminster having elections every third year,
The end of that triennial year of the english parliament would have taken place in 1708.
Westminster parliament did indeed hold that election in 1708.”
More wordplay and some astute recorded history for you;
So what? The new British parliament was officially proclaimed on April 29th, as Queen Anne was required under the Treaty to have this done by May 1st. In addition, the current session of the English parliament was due to run until 14 June 1708 under its Triennial Act, but the new British parliament had its first sitting in October 23rd 1707, so that Act was clearly breached. There had been arguments about its application based on whether or not the British parliament was a continuation of the English parliament. If it was then the Triennial Act applied, but if not, it didn’t. They never really made up their minds, but given that the Act was breached anyway, that suggests continuity wasn’t real.
Given that the Treaty didn’t mandate any difference in the treatments of the Scottish and English parliaments, the continuity meme was essentially baseless, otherwise the new British parliament would also have continuity with Scotland’s parliament. But neither prior parliament had any role in the new Union, and both ceased to exist as functional entities, making any continuity meaningless.
The only reason Westminster bangs on about its continuity with the English parliament is because wants to bolster its tenuous claims of owning or inheriting that parliament’s sovereignty. Its difficulty is that in England’s 1689 Bill of Rights, England’s sovereignty was specifically targeted at the English parliament and not at the British parliament, as the latter didn’t even exist at the time. They are two different entities, and neither is synonymous with the other; they merely have a lot of characteristics in common, but sovereignty isn’t one of them.
From Wikipedia;
The first session of the British Parliament was prorogued on 1 April 1708. During the recess, it was prorogued again on 13 April and, two days later, on 15 April, parliament was dissolved by proclamation and new writs issued for summons and elections to a new (British) parliament.
“The members of the parliament of England were not elected to the parliament of The newly named GB parliament but were simply transferred under proclamation by Queen Anne.”
Again, so what?
“Both of these are evidence that the old parliament of England did not dissolve when the treaty came alive but simply continued under a new name.
So did the numbers of acts and legislation records recorded continue in there numerical order from the english parliament of Westminster to the GB Westminster parliament,”
Blethers; The British parliament just adopted those as useful operational conveniences, since being a parliament it needed to continue managing the same things as well as other similar things in the new polity, just on a larger scale, and with new powers, responsibilities, and obligations imposed by the Treaty. A very high degree of similarity was inevitable, but it doesn’t require a zombie English ghost in the machine.
“The Acts of Scotland you suggest that created the treaty regardless of wether the Scottish parliament was extinguished, were not international acts, nor were they English parliament acts.”
I’ve never argued otherwise. What’s your point?
“They were made and passed in Scottish parliament by domestic acts,
Without the Scottish parliament still being in existence neither are Scotlands domestic Acts.
England could not hijack or steal these acts to use as English acts,
Without the Scottish parliament these domestic acts of Scotland cannot become international acts at all.”
Every Act made by a parliament is exclusively domestic. Only treaties are international.
“With out the Scottish parliament still existing the English parliament had no way to retrieve or use these Scottish acts.
There was no law passed in Scotland transferring these domestic acts for westminsters sole use without Scotlands parliament.
Englands parliament contrived a treaty of union without a Scottish parliament, without the Scottish domestic acts still being extant, without Scottish representative from the Scottish parliament, with out a vote going to the people of Scotland,
While still operating as the transferred parliament of England into the Self proclaimed but unelected parliament of the united kingdom of Great Britain.”
And you had the gall to accuse me of wordplay! At least mine made sense, the above is just well-chopped word salad. Must do better, James!
The two Acts of Union transferred the authority of the Treaty into domestic legislation in their respective legislatures, as the practical implementation of the terms of the treaty, making those terms legally enforceable in both countries. That the two parliaments that passed those acts have since ceased to exist doesn’t repeal those legislations, any more than any other piece of domestic legislation was repealed in either country. Given the purpose of the Treaty, the very notion makes not the slightest sense.
“The elections in 1708 in Westminster continued the English parliament, until the triennial act was completely repealed in 2010.”
Blethers.
“The etymology of the scottish parliament closing before the Scottish parliament represenatives Could be chosen matters considerable,
Because other wise you are not chosen members from a parliament of Scotland, but simply random wealthy men,
This does not join a parliamentary union of treaty between two parliaments and kingdoms.
It makes a treaty only with those private individuals in Scotland that put their signature on that piece of paper.they call a treaty.”
Scotland’s MPs directly represent Scotland’s electorate, and Scotland as a whole; they have never represented Scotland’s parliament, even before the Union.
@ Captain Yossarian
You mention you read the article (singular) but the link in my 9:04 am post was to a page with many articles relating to COPFS which are all worth reading or re-reading. Some are more relevant to what you are asking than others.
With regard to the apparent discrepancy in how the law and police operate and are applied in Scotland. In my personal view it is self-explanatory as there appears to be significant motivation for them to pursue certain elements whilst overlooking others.
Just look at how the likes of Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Marion Millar, Manny Singh have been pursued and dealt with, whilst other folk like Dani Garavelli get a free pass.
Peaceful AUOB marches are made difficult to organise, but rampaging football fans causing all manner of grief continue year after year.
Some try to make out it is all borne in Scotland, or you may consider that just possibly there are UK state agents or unionist leaning civil service disruptors infiltrated into these institutions to effectively steer, disrupt, and tarnish the competence and efficient operational functioning of these institutions.
You appear to have noticed something isn’t right, but a very similar modus of apparent corruption and bias runs through many other matters in Scotland should you care to look closely.
And to be clear, I don’t doubt that some dubious behaviour and actions have been carried out by certain Scottish folk, but it is a forgone conclusion that UK State intelligence services will know about it, so the individuals concerned can then be controlled with leverage.
This individual has caused all manner of escalating issues and muchos expense to the taxpayer over the years, yet walks off with huge pension.
From the early days.
https://www.kidsnotsuits.com/fake-news-how-public-lies-begin/
@Ian Brotherhood 10:23
I like it.
Tell the people of Scotland nothing.
We’ll just fuck things up if we know what’s going on.
Does that information black out apply to you too? Don’t answer though, if you are not allowed to tell anyone.
Captain Yossarian
The thing for me is what sort of person is Nicola that actually promotes a conspiracy to destroy Salmond or allowed it!!
We all know who did what but she is protected by the police who seem to have been involved, she is protected by the courts by silencing any report or investigation.
Why why why would the establishment protect Nicola?
There can only be one reason in my opinion.
Having been in place so long the SNP will now be riddled with plants. Their job is to undermine the indy position, make fools of themselves, being promoted beyond their ability
All the more reason juryless trials, & those who are unelected who promote it, should be promptly told to get right to fck & driven out of Holyrood.
One judge can be corrupted & biased. 12 jurors are not so easy.
Dang! If only we had a mechanism to do that eh?
Xaracen,
You completely missed the point,
Explainations were roughly given to help reference etymology.
But the most important two facts is
1: There has not ever been representative from the Extinguished Scottish parliament sitting in the in the New self proclaimed parliament of Great Britain,
Due to the Scottish parliament closing before representatives from Scotland were chosen for Westminster parliament,
The random blokes selected afterwards were not from a parliament of Scotland.
We, (Scotland) have never opened a Scottish parliament since 1707 to select members from a Scottish parliament.
Therefore Scotlands parliament and England parliament are united as one British parliament,
It is single handedly being operated as a continuation of Englands old Westminster parliament under a new name,
For the treaty to have completed and become alive it must both Countries parliaments representatives sitting in Westminster parliament.
To date that has not happened,
It is operating as the parliament of England, over the Isles of Britain.
Factor into this the parliament of Englands Trienniel Act for the election process of old parliament of England that was not completely repealed until 2010,
That English laws were still operating within the newly claimed parliament of GB until the repeal emphasises that the newly named parliament of GB was still operating under the old English parliament laws,
Again we see no Breach in England parliament Triennial Act, as you suggest until it was repealed in 2010.
It was used for elections in Westminster in 1708, without representatives from the Scottish parliament sitting in Westminster.
There has never been a parliamentary union between Scotland and England as promised in the treaty agreement, it never came to fruition due to the Agreement and Acts once ratified canceling and extinguishing the Scottish parliament from the treaty of union prior to the Scottish parliament selecting member as representation of Scotlands parliament.
The English parliament continued and transferred its members into the GB parliament without elections until 1708.
Meanwhile the Scottish parliament and its representative were extinguished from the treaty of union merely by agreeing with the terms of the treaty,
Once the ratification took place it terminated all obligation of the Scottish domestic acts, The Scottish parliament, and the Scottish parliament representatives.
It also terminated the extinguished Scottish parliament obligation to adhere to a treaty,
Westminster no longer has any legal ground to sue extinguished Scottish parliament entity that was promised a parliamentary union with Englands parliament.
Random Scottish blokes from a extinguished Scottish parliament afterwards cannot create or make a treaty of parliamentary union between The rest of Scotland and Englands Westminster parliament.
Although The English parliament may hold those private Scottish citizen individuals from 1707 or possibly ( their descendants) that signed it responsible for some breach of contract.
Correction to post above,
We are therefore NOT united parliaments as you suggest.
The old parliament of Westminster in England ended its session in accordance and in the manner required with its laws of the English parliament
It resumed and completed its parliament session simple under a new name.
And according to the Law Society of Scotland did not receive Royal Assent.
James Che said at: 15 July, 2023 at 3:41 pm
“And according to the Law Society of Scotland did not receive Royal Assent.”
It is not immediately clear to me eaxctly what it is that you mean or what point it was that you meant to make here.
– begging the question “did not receive royal Assent _for what_ ?”
Perhaps I am being thick, but I find that if the reader has to deduce what the implicit point is, then there is likely to be some miscomunication.
Xaracen.
It is difficult to understand how you come to presume there are Scottish parliament MPs at present in Westminster from a English parliament piece of legislation for a English parliament sub branch of the English parliament of Westminster.
These Mps in Scotland are employees of that legislation called the Scotland Act made by the English parliament of Westminster.
There are No MPs from a Scottish parliament,
There never has been due to having No Scottish parliament members in a union since the concept of the treaty,
Etymology counts with regards to how the treaty of union was meant to proceed after ratification,
There are and have been random blokes from outside of the Scottish parliament, sitting in Westminster for over three hundred years after the Scottish parliament was extinguished by the agreement.
aLurker.
Royal Assent is the final step for a parliamentary bill in England to become english Law.
This was not amended until 1967.
In Scotland the Monarch is not Sovereign.
So for Westminster parliament to claim it holds absolute Sovereignty of its parliament with the Monarch or using the monarchs Sovereignty within the parliament of Westminster this only applies to England.
It was interesting to note that when Charlie was crowned monarch in England this year but a separate ceremony had to be held in Scotland,
However he is only shown the crown of Scotland, he is not crowned or annointed while wearing the regalia of Scotland.
And king Charles of England and Wales had to acknowledge the Scottish “Claim of Right” that the people hold Sovereignty.
Not the parliament nor the Monarch,
Queen Anne claimed she was Queen of Scotland falsely of course , for she was never Queen of Scotland.
Because in Scotland the Sovereignty rest with the people.
So any Royal assent given to pass the treaty of union into Law or a international treaty could only apply in England and Wales.
This may be why the Monarch Queen Anne never gave Royal Assent,
However other factors for “not given Royal Assent” to the treaty of union may have been at play during that time period also,
Such as the queen of England and Wales, was unwell for a longish period of tome before she passed away.
The result, either way is that Royal Assent was not given to the treaty of union, according to the Law Society of Scotland for the old English parliament to pass it into a bill of Law in Westminster parliament at that time.
I did some quick research on your behalf,
So If you want to type in “What is the purpose of Royal Assent”?
Most of the information on Royal Assent will come up.
It covers application during the fallacious treaty time period to present date,
Lord Cooper, in his analyses covers the difference between The two Types of Sovereignty of Scotland and England.
James Che said;
“You completely missed the point.”
I got the point! I just completely disagreed with it, and I explained why.
“It is difficult to understand how you come to presume there are Scottish parliament MPs at present in Westminster from a English parliament piece of legislation for a English parliament sub branch of the English parliament of Westminster.”
I have never presumed any such thing! There aren’t supposed to be any Scots MPs representing the old Scottish parliament. Scotland’s old parliament was replaced, as was England’s. Scotland’s MPs are there at Westminster to represent all of Scotland, not Scotland’s old parliament! That’s the point that you have completely missed!
They are there to represent Scotland as the equal partner with England in the Union, as England’s MPs are there to represent England as the only other equal partner in the Union.
“Queen Anne claimed she was Queen of Scotland falsely of course, for she was never Queen of Scotland.”
But she was Queen of Scots, so what’s your point? She was the last Scottish monarch to take the legally required Scottish Coronation Oath. There has been no ‘King or Queen of Scots’ since she died in 1714, because no-one has taken that Oath since she took it.
However, despite the different ways we took to get there, we both agree that England’s dominance over Scotland is unconstitutional, unlawful, and undemocratic.
That dominance stems exclusively from the English establishment’s entirely self-serving but unwarranted presumption that England’s vastly larger population, translated into vastly more MPs than Scotland, legitimises denying Scotland any meaningful say in the Union, despite it being an equal partner with England in a Treaty of two sovereign kingdoms. It says this is just the outcome of democracy, and there is nothing that can be done about it, because that’s just how democracy works as everybody knows, so the Scots must accept it, and are being undemocratic in complaining about it. It also relies on pretending that there is no such thing as sovereignty anymore, at least as far as Scotland is concerned. That is also a self-serving English establishment lie, and it’s a monumental whopper.
It pretends, and enforces via Westminster’s voting system, that the Union of the United Kingdom is a partnership of (now) 650 equal and undistinguished constituencies, and that a simple majority voting system is the only fair way to make Union decisions in the Union parliament.
This is a gross misrepresentation of the truth, and something certainly can, and really really must be done about it.
All this talk of a united independent Scotland makes me laugh. There’s no such thing. The people of Moray, or Aberdeenshire, or the western isles have very little in common with the central belt massiv. Yet it’s the central belt folk that think they decide what the rest of us “want”. They are no better than Westminster.
James Che,
as always, you completely miss the point.
Royal assent isn’t given to any treaty.