The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


A developing theme

Posted on February 24, 2014 by

From today’s Telegraph.

sctelegraph

And there’s plenty more where that came from.

scmirror

The Mirror.

scexpress

The Express.

sctimes2

The Times.

scindependent5

The Independent.

scguardian4

The Guardian.

sctelegraph3

The Telegraph again.

scindependent4

The Independent again.

sctimes3

The Times again.

scguardian5

The Guardian again.

scindependent3

The Independent again.

sctimes4

The Times again.

You get the picture, folks. We wear kilts. We’re haggises. We’re scroungers. We’re a Mickey Mouse country. We’re not entitled to the “poond”, because it’s England’s. We’re getting our comeuppance for daring to think we’re a nation. But mainly kilts.

We love you, Scotland! Please don’t leave!

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 26 02 14 12:39

    The No Campaign is practically begging Scotland to leave The Union | RealisticBeingGreen

  2. 05 11 14 22:12

    I’m getting fed up with this. | A Wilderness of Peace

221 to “A developing theme”

  1. yerkitbreeks says:

    After a YES will this type of ” contributor ” ever be a good neighbour ?

  2. Iain says:

    And also a neurotic fixation with Salmond, especially in a kilt. They really do think that having the most popular (well, least unpopular) leader of a party/government in the UK is the independence campaign’s weak point.

  3. Mosstrooper says:

    And on an other Post Southerner commented that he didn’t believe that there was any animosity towards the Scots from the English. Oh wait, this is what passes for humour and I shouldn’t take offence. Ho Ho HO! what scamps they are.

  4. Lindsay says:

    Er, sense of humour?

    The first one is kind of interesting: according to the latest OPEC market report, the fabled “second oil boom” isn’t happening. Production levels are declining or flat at best. Not covering that?

  5. Fudgefase says:

    The racism is quite shocking.

  6. msean says:

    Those English publications don’t seem to like the First Minister Mr Salmond,do they?

    Sort of knew this would happen,after all their attitude was explained in the book ‘the claim of Scotland’.

  7. Jean says:

    The ruling elite(s) need reminding that Scotland has more options for currency than the pound; that taking too long to process us into Europe is a stop on Europe’s fishing fleets in Scottish waters… and there is always EFTA.
    We have the oil, water, gas and electricity and our books balance. Bring on the YES vote.

  8. An Duine Gruamach says:

    It’s the shitey attempts at representing a Scottish accent that get me. Have these people ever heard Salmond speak?

  9. CameronB says:

    Equal partners? Mutual respect? Better Together?

    The only way we can now maintain individual and national self-respect, is to vote YES.

    Without self-respect, it is impossible to respect others, or to be respected by them.

  10. Jim T says:

    Are those “cartoons” in both Scottish and “UK” editions or, are they just for us or, just for rUK?

  11. Indy_Scot says:

    Norman Smith now telling us that the UK government is best placed look after Scotland’s oil.

    He must think we are zipped up at the back

  12. Linda's Back says:

    Worth watching Ivan McKee sorting out the BBC

    Here is Ivan destroying an interviewer on the oil fund.

    http://www.youtube.com/…/

    Yes side must get him on Question Time

    Plus Ivan McKee, Business for Scotland video of economic facts

  13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Linda: that link’s no good and I can’t fix it.

  14. Brendan says:

    For artistic merit, it’s a number two (well, they all are anyway, specially the last!)

  15. kim barraclough says:

    And we dragged through the PC mill if we mention golly wogs.. yet those national newspapers can drag our nation, nationality, culture, elected minister through the mud without batting an eyelid…. hope your laughing your socks of Lindsey just as they were laughing their socks off during oppression of the blacks.. those cartoons depict the image the ignorant south of the border have of us not realising we are a very proud nation with a drive for independence and basically the actions of the above is putting the wind in our sails to get there!!!

  16. Morag says:

    I had to buy a paper copy of the Scottish Sunday Express yesterday. (Don’t ask – Lockerbie-related news.) As I gingerly turned the pages to find the article I needed, I came across a cartoon which was actually reasonably decent.

    It depicts Cameron, dressed in a head-to-toe Union Jack suit with flared shoulders (a bit like a superhero costume) and that red-and-blue lightning flash over his right eye. However it’s not a flattering portrait and he’s clearly shaking, with beads of sweat on his brow. The word “wobble” appears beside him. He’s wearing a “Better Together” and a “Save the Union” badge (but not a U-KOK one!).

    There are a couple of suited gents observing him, one with a clipboard and one taking his photo with a phone camera. A newspaper page lies beside him, reading “David Bowie’s plea to Scotland not to leave the UK”.

    He’s holding up a placard written in red and blue, reading “Salmond’s under pressure – No to ch… ch… Changes!” With musical notes beside the words. (Reference to a David Bowie song?) Also in his hand are a little union flag and another flag reading “Stay with us, Scotland!”

    The speech balloon beside his head reads “You sure this will work?”

    Virtual Mars Bar to anyone who can find this online. It’s actually quite funny and quite penetrating.

  17. Gordon Hay says:

    Also in today’s Telegraph, National Insurance to be renamed Earnings Tax as a precursor to incorporating it into a single Income Tax deduction.

    So, finally putting an end to any idea that you are paying into a welfare fund as protection for any future change in circumstances, or for your old age.

  18. Jim T says:

    Rev/Linda, that will be another YouTube item removed by the Beeb then …

  19. Iain says:

    @Lindsay

    You mean this one?

    World Oil Demand Feb 2014

    World oil demand growth for 2013 was revised up by 30 tb/d to stand at 1.0 mb/d, mainly based on upward revisions for OECD Americas and Europe. For 2014, world oil demand growth is expected to increase to around 1.1 mb/d,revised up by 50 tb/d from the previous month.

    http://tinyurl.com/orjpyjp

  20. Geoff Huijer says:

    They really are stirring up resentment.

    We really are seen as the ‘poor’ neighbours
    in this ‘Union’.

    I don’t hate English people and I don’t
    believe the press and media reflect their views
    accurately.

    The press and media are trying to set the agenda.

    They hate us.

    Jeez, we’ve just got to get a YES in September
    and gain some self-respect.

  21. Malc says:

    Hard to believe the opinions of some of the people phoning into GMS call in. The ignorance is breathtaking. Not hard to see why NO vote is still high, these people are just cowed into believing they are useless and need Westminster to survive. Very depressing

  22. GRAHAMHANSON says:

    Put in a black person, an Asian person, a woman, a gay……You would be arrested. Rightly.

  23. Morag says:

    according to the latest OPEC market report, the fabled “second oil boom” isn’t happening. Production levels are declining or flat at best. Not covering that?

    Lindsay, get this. Scotland’s non-oil economic prospects are pretty respectable. We have a broad-based economy with strengths in a number of areas, and potential for growth in many of these areas. We are not reliant on oil, it is the icing on the cake.

    What we do need is to get away from Westminster and control these resources for ourselves. Whatever these resources are. And the sooner the better.

  24. Gordon Hay says:

    @Linda/Rev

    That link works OK for me.

  25. handclapping says:

    I liked the Express one but the rest made me appreciate our own Chris Cairns the more. Lets hear it for Hamish!

  26. Betty Boop says:

    On the subject of media, having the misfortune to be listening to BBC Radio Scotland phone-in just now – Morning Call with Louise White. The issue on the day both Cabinets in Aberdeenshire – Leader’s Debate.

    This is dire – what strikes me most is the opinion from no side that it is all about Alex Salmond, anti-English, etc.,few know what the union actually is and in equal parts say the have enough information via newspapers and tv or not enough information at all. They also think it is all about oil. Now listening to someone who reckons UK gov trying to force a no vote so we don’t have a stake in Falklands Oil! Virtually all no voters on programme don’t think Cameron needs to debate. Help!

    Need to find a way round mainstream media for those without internet.

  27. GRAHAMHANSON says:

    Ivan on question time? Trust me, they would find a reason to keep him off. He would wipe the floor with them as he does with the interviewers!

  28. Training Day says:

    This is what they think of us now. Der Sturmer is alive and well and living in London.

    Imagine the contempt in which we’ll be held if we lack the self-respect to stand up for ourselves and vote No.

  29. sneddon says:

    If all those racist stereotypes were used for a visible minority it rightly would be slammed but just as it’s us it’s ok. UK catoonists maintaing a fine old english tradition of perpetuing racist nonsense going back to1707. Bet those caroonists are glad they went to art school , all that talent, all that skill reduced to drawing lazy racist stereotypes in support of the most draconian regime the UK has seen for over a century. I bet real artists like Greg Moodie and others at National Collective make you squirm and remind you of what you once were.

  30. bookie from hell says:

    scottish begger—wow

    @the mirror

  31. Linda's Back says:

    Try this link for Ivan McKee BBC News interview

  32. Luke says:

    Of course it doesn’t work the other way. The whole of England isn’t routinely cast as arrogant, colonial, overbearing, bullying, Imperialist, unfair, hoity toighty. The entire country is never misrepresented as London or Westminster. Especially not by the First Minister. Oh no.

    I’m from the North East of England, my ancestors experienced more or less exactly the same as the worst parts of Scotland, I hate the Tories and London centrism as much as any Scot I’ve ever met, but that means nothing because it doesn’t suit Salmond’s xenophobic jingoistic narrative. All of us English are the same. We’re monolithic overbearing bullies for not giving you everything you want, and we hate you.

    This is what happens when a cause invokes Nationalism. It’s the lowest common political denominator. Playground empathy and name calling replaces pragmatism and rationality. It’s not a political argument. Not in this example.

    From an undecided point of view, a little more objectivity and critical consideration on here would do your cause no harm. If racial stereotyping is bad, it’s bad, no matter the subject. If you’re calling this out, which is entirely fair enough, then I certainly don’t expect to see monolithic references to arrogant, bullying English that usually pepper the site.

  33. Jim T says:

    The GMS phone in – I’ve not heard a single “No” voter wanting a Salmond/Cameron debate. Closed minds.

  34. Barontorc says:

    One would almost think it was all kinda coordinated. What was that about weaving webs and trapping yourself in the process?

    There’s been too much conditioning done of the English/Westminster psyche and not a snowball in hell’s chance of Westminster granting any further powers to Scotland, if anything’s coming down the line to Scotland it’s cuts, cuts and more cuts.

    It has to be YES.

  35. pa_broon74 says:

    These cartoonists and the news papers in which they appear must have no self-awareness because they’ll continue to accuse US, Yes Scotland and the SNP of inflaming debate with anti-English sentiment.

    It is laughable and depressing in equal measure.

  36. Proud Cybernat says:

    What are the odds that Cameron will announce today some form of ‘oil fund’ for Scotland from the extra £200 billion? But even if he does he will still not ‘get it’ –it’s not about the money, Dave. The oil bonus just makes it a bit easier to finance ourselves. It’s about making our own decisions, Dave and no amount of money can buy that.

  37. Mosstrooper says:

    @ handclapping 10.17

    Steps forward takes a bow.

    Whit, it’s no me it’s a cartoon lion?
    Retreats to corner, thumb in mouth.

    Mumble mumble

  38. patronsaintofcats says:

    Has anyone ever seen Alex Salmond in a kilt? no, I didn’t think so…

  39. Kate says:

    Yep! They sure are LOVE bombing us huh!
    And they keep portraying anyone who wants free of all their S**T as NASTY cyberNATS..

    No way have I ever seen as much VILE towards a nation or it’s people, as bad as that which comes from the Media Down South.

  40. Helena Brown says:

    WE seem to be having another attack, seems the Unionists who “never” do anything wrong have done so yet again.

  41. Jim T says:

    Luke,

    I’ve never heard Alex Salmond decry the “English”. He is probably one of the least xenophobic politicians out there. I have heard him frequently decry Westminster though.

    It is an extremely rare occurrence that anyone in the Yes camp resorts to abusive xenophobic rhetoric. The same cannot be said about the media.

  42. Robert Louis says:

    These cartoons are typical of (and I use this term after some thought) a very Southern English attitude to people who do not bend the knee to London.

    It is xenophobia. It is also an indictment of what England has become. Snarling, vicious, diminished and petty minded.

    Take a look back in history, and you will find Charles Edward Stuart around 1745, depicted in English newspapers as a Scottish destitute drunk in the gutter, uttering obscenities.

    All of history is littered with this approach from the London press towards anybody who thinks differently to them. Especially Scots.

    It is, however, lazy cartoons that we see above, requiring little effort by those responsible. Every tired old cliche and negative stereotype about Scotland.

    After we are independent again, these cartoons should be printed and mounted on the walls of the Scottish parliament, lest any Scot ever forget the utter contempt these people have for our culture, our history, our heritage, our elected leaders and our country.

    As often stated before, the Scottish poet Alan Bissett really hit the nail on the head with this;

  43. Les Wilson says:

    I hope it makes all of Scotland more resolute to be a Nation of our own, who needs friends like this.

    Just a few words about Cameron today, what this proves is while we had no doubt he is taking an active roll in the BT campaign, while claiming it is up to Scots. He comes here to sway voters yet hides behind ” I am not Scottish.
    He is right about that we would not have him in a lucky bag.

    What else it tells me is that there MUST be even more oil still there than we realise, do you really think he is doing this out of love for us, well we really know that is not the case, it is a desperate move. He does this stuff but will not debate with Alex Salmond, he is much like a sniper, firing from a safe distance.
    We would manage well enough without any of them.

  44. SquareHaggis says:

    @Luke,

    Sorry, but you are completely wrong, Alex Salmond has said never said anything derogatory nor xenophobic about English people, in fact if you listen to what he says his argument is with Westminster exclusively.

  45. Indy_Scot says:

    I have a feeling that the BBC will not be having a HYS on todays North Sea oil story.

  46. Papadox says:

    Hope all the proud snobby Scots realise that is how their superiors and mentors think of them, behind their backs. (with contempt).

  47. Taranaich says:

    It infuriates me that they’re using our cultural distinctions (haggis, bagpipes, kilts, Scots language) as a bludgeon with which to beat us.

    Would any of these (many of them supposedly liberal/socialist) papers portray the François Hollande dressed as an Onion Johnny with striped shirt, beret, festooned with onions & riding a bicycle? Would they depict Mariano Rajoy dressed as a matador? Merkel in lederhosen?

  48. Indy_Scot says:

    According to the BBC, David Cameron saying that under his control the oil could generate around 200 billon pounds over the next 20 years.

    What a burden this oil would be to Scotland.

  49. Helena Brown says:

    Luke like many others here I have heard from many in England about that nasty man Salmond and his anti Englishness. When asked for evidence not one person has been able to produce any. It seems to have become something of an urban myth in England that Independence is all about you, let me assure you it is all about us.
    I would like to point out to those who do not realise that the beggar in the Express could have been lifted from a picture by that well known English Nationalist(yes they had and have them) Hogarth, who has at least one picture showing a Scot as a beggar.

  50. Vincent McDee says:

    British love needs to come with a health warning, as it’s better represented by the SM mistress in high boots.

    The problem sadists face in their vision of love is that they need a matching massochist.

    Oops! What are they going to do now?

  51. Robert Louis says:

    Here’s what happens today in Aberdeen.

    Unwanted and roundly despised English Tory Prime Minister flies in, tells Scots that as a nation they are singularly incapable of tying their shoelaces, never mind managing oil reserves. Tells Scots that it’s best if Scotland continues to give all oil revenues to London, by voting NO in the independence referendum. Unwanted, unelected and roundly despised English Tory Prime Minister then fies out of Aberdeen to his home, some 400 miles away in London, England.

    Entire Scottish population rolls eyes then shrugs shoulders.

  52. Les Wilson says:

    While I am at it, Cameron says they will put away the money to decommission the North sea defunct pipe lines and infrastructure, an impressive amount of money, in order to sway people.

    My suggestion is that he decommission the nuclear subs laying in the Forth and clean up Dalgety Bay while they are at it. Although there is no oil prize in having to do that, that of course is why they are not actually doing it. Devious scum.

  53. Luigi says:

    The mask has finally slipped. At least we now know what they really think of us. It is very offensive. If all scots were a different colour, it would be viewed as racist.

    I just cannot understand how Scottish BT supporters can continue to suffer this national humiliation – are they really that ignorant (perhaps they read only the Scottish papers), or are they just behaving like ostriches?

  54. Robert Louis says:

    Square haggis,

    Completely agree. Alex Salmond has NEVER made xenophobic or racist comments about the English.

    This is yet another piece of nonsense spoon fed to people in England by the propagandist BBC and the mainstream media. It is a complete falsehood, and has NEVER been the case.

  55. Morag says:

    Has anyone ever seen Alex Salmond in a kilt? no, I didn’t think so…

    Many years ago I remember Salmond discussing the subject of him in a kilt, and he said that he didn’t wear the kilt and he would not do so, apart from in one specific situation which he didn’t elaborate on. He was actually quite cryptic about it. I sort of wondered at the time if he was talking about independence day.

    I have seen him in the kilt more recently though, or at least a picture or film. So I’m not quite sure what’s going on in that respect.

  56. SquareHaggis says:

    Osborne (in his best begging suit) “spare me a drop of oil sur” – picture of wheels and cogs from WM gov scattered around everywhere.

    Salmond; Naw, sorry pal, ah cannae manage it

  57. Out and out racism, as bad as any seen directed at blacks in Britain in the Fifties and early Sixties.

    This is racist speech that, were it directed at any other minority in Britain, would bring down upon the perpetrator a criminal indictment.

    I do not believe this should be accepted in any sense, and that those in the media and in government responsible should be confronted purposefully, unyieldingly, and unrelentingly.

    They are racists, full stop.

  58. Vincent McDee says:

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is bad.

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is bad.

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is bad.

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is bad.

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is bad.

    British oil is good, Scottish oil is…

    Miss, should I have to stay in detention if after writting it a 100,000 times, I still disagree?

  59. Taranaich says:

    @Luke: Of course it doesn’t work the other way. The whole of England isn’t routinely cast as arrogant, colonial, overbearing, bullying, Imperialist, unfair, hoity toighty. The entire country is never misrepresented as London or Westminster. Especially not by the First Minister. Oh no.

    … All of us English are the same. We’re monolithic overbearing bullies for not giving you everything you want, and we hate you.

    Luke, I’m going to reiterate something I said in regards to one group eager to point out that “we aren’t all like that”:

    We know. Everybody knows. Not all white people are racist against black people: one doesn’t need to point it out every single time white-on-black racism comes up. Not all men are sexist to women: one doesn’t need to point it out every time a story about harassment appears. Not all straight individuals are anti-homosexuality: one doesn’t need to remind us of that when a gay teen is driven to suicide over bullying. You shouldn’t have to assert that not all people of your group are like these individuals – I should bloody well hope so, otherwise there’d be riots in the streets.

    It is completely and utterly untrue, and frankly rather offensive, to put forward the idea that Salmond is attacking all of England, when he is quite specifically attacking the government at Westminster – a clarification he has made very frequently, even going so far as to say that Westminster doesn’t represent the people of England, let alone Scotland.

    Understand that when we are criticising cartoons and anti-Scottish setiment, that does NOT equate to anti-English sentiment. It is not anti-English to respond to anti-Scottishness, it is not misandrist to respond to misogyny, it is not racist to respond to racism.

    From an undecided point of view, a little more objectivity and critical consideration on here would do your cause no harm. If racial stereotyping is bad, it’s bad, no matter the subject. If you’re calling this out, which is entirely fair enough, then I certainly don’t expect to see monolithic references to arrogant, bullying English that usually pepper the site.

    Please provide examples, then. I’m sure the many English posters here (such as handclapping) would be eager to know.

  60. SquareHaggis says:

    @Robert Louis

    Thanks for the emphasis, I wanted to bolden the word NEVER but don’t know the tab/code thingy.

  61. Luigi says:

    Scottish politicians seem to think that after a NO vote, all will be forgotten and forgiven, that they can sail back down to London and enjoy the trappings of Westminster.

    Well, all I can say is they better start learning to hide their accent, because all scots are going to be regarded as trash. Do people like Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander honestly think that the English people will accept a Scottish person in high office after all the anger stirred up by the English media? Business as usual?

    Not a chance. We are all tarred with the tartan brush now, and that includes the Uncle Toms (or should I say Uncle Jocks) of the Labour party.

  62. Tom says:

    If the scottish nationalists make fun of English stereotypes, e.g. posh Etonians, stupid English people being outwitted by the oh so wily and canny scotchmen – then thats funny and so very clever.

    These political cartoons are cartoons – not serious analysis – and I see you ignored that some of them make Cameron look ridiculous.

    Scottish nationalists strategy is to look for anything to take offence at.

  63. Jimsie says:

    These cartoons certainly are racist and objectionable to any Scot.However, there is a plus side to this belittling of a nation and that is that it will stiffen the resolve of campaigners for YES and will convert the undecided to Yes.

  64. CameronB says:

    I hope Mr. Aaronovich takes the opportunity to review this collection, to see how coordinated institutional other-ing is done properly.

  65. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Robert Louis

    After the shoulder shrugging, counts days to September 18th …

  66. Charles Kearney says:

    I have downloaded these Cartoons and intend to display them on my Facebook Page throughout Today (and every day for seven Months)just as a wee Reminder, that whilst we bear no ill will towards the English People, their Press and their Government are totally misrepresenting the vast Majority of their Population and their feelings towards Scotland!

    Can I suggest, if everyone of a YES opinion were to do the same, I think it may have an effect!!

  67. haud oan the noo says:

    Luke :

    You are so wrong. Its the political elite at Westminster and the MSM that get it – not the English people.

  68. cearc says:

    Hey Stu,

    You just made the front page of the Guardian!

    As in, “And here’s the pro-independence Wings Over Scotland on David Cameron’s claim that measures the UK government is promoting could lead to oil and gas…”.

    It was showing as the latest in their live blog @10.44.

  69. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Luke at 10.28

    I’m calling your bluff.
    Give me one example of Alex Salmond or the YES campaign insulting or abusing the English.
    Give me one example of Alex Salmond insulting, abusing or making a personal attack on anybody.

  70. Bill McLean says:

    Luke – you are writing rubbish clearly from a position of Ignorance (I use the word in it’s literal context) Alex Salmond, democratically elected First Minister of Scotland with a massive majority, has never ever criticized the English – in fact he referred to them as “the great English people”. Unfortunately this may not fit your agenda it is however true!

  71. Lanarkist says:

    Sorry O/T, I think.

    The British press denigrate the family member that exhibits eccentricity according to their own peer pressured perspective. They also adopt the underdog, as long as it is from another family.

    The contradictory stance is exemplified by the Westminster and EU position on the situation in Ukraine. They are supportive,(they can find money for floods in the Thames Valley and for support for Ukraine, both not undeserved), decisive and positively outspoken when it comes to welcoming the prospect of Ukraine joining the EU family, that word again, a country under civil war/revolution and at odds with Russia. They have no history of incorporating EU Law into their legislature, nor any of the other conditions pertaining to entry.

    Compare this with the discussions on Scotland’s desire for national sovereignty and our intention to retain our EU membership.

    Do these contradictions not seem apparent to BT, Westminster and General no leaning voters?

    My brain would explode if I tried to contain all these opposing points of view.

  72. G H Graham says:

    The Union Dividend

    We spend more on Scots than on ourselves.
    Scots drink too much & most of them are always drunk.
    Scots die sooner than us.
    Scotland is a beautiful country but still rather poor.
    The price of Scottish oil is very, very volatile.
    Scottish football is 3rd rate.
    The Scots eat very bad food.
    Scottish weather is rubbish.
    Scotland has no industry.
    When we lose you’re Scottish.
    When we win we’re English or British.
    Scottish bagpipes sound terrible.
    Haggis was invented in England, not Scotland.
    All Scots wear kilts which is a silly 19th century fantasy.
    Scots Gaelic is a waste of time.
    We’ve no idea what that Scottish Mod thing is.
    We built Hadrian’s wall to keep the Scots out.

    We love Scotland.

  73. Jim T says:

    square haggis

    O/T

    The italics and bold stuff is achieved by prefixing the bit you want to carry the emphasis with the tags shown in the bold text just above the box where you type comments. To end the emphasis simply put a “/” immediately in front of the “i” or “b” and within the brackets.

    Does that make sense?

  74. CameronB says:

    SquareHaggis
    I’ve just stumbled upon how myself.

    quote

  75. Doug Daniel says:

    Lindsay:

    Er, sense of humour?

    The first one is kind of interesting: according to the latest OPEC market report, the fabled “second oil boom” isn’t happening. Production levels are declining or flat at best. Not covering that?

    It’s not like there’s a big tap in the North Sea that gets turned on and off depending on how much money you throw at it. These projects take time to come to fruition. The commissioning process alone can take months.

    Might as well say “well that new bypass in Aberdeen’s not done much to help the traffic, has it?”

  76. CameronB says:

    doh
    ( i or b ) quote (/i or b)

    replace () with chevrons (pointed brackets)

  77. Murray McCallum says:

    We are constantly told that the referendum is “up for grabs” and that currently undecided voters will decide the outcome.

    I therefore wonder what an undecided voter thinks about the depiction of Scotland in these cartoons?

    Do they fret over a need for Scots to provide a source of entertainment for their neighbours, or maybe wonder who in future will do the job of telling them what a crap country they live in?

    Maybe, just maybe, they will think (as most folks on earth do) that it’s maybe time Scotland became a country running its own affairs? If we start to respect ourselves others can follow.

  78. One good thing to issue from the Referendum is the British establishment and its minions coming out of the woodwork – they are telling us to our faces what they always thought of Scotland and its people but rarely articulated.

    The cartoonist, Steve Bell, is an old fashioned socialist who has discovered his internationalism does not include democratic freedoms for Scotland. That should give him pause for thought for he has arrived at the same place as Thatcher – the people are the enemy.

  79. fishcumnock says:

    We / I always knew this BT gimmick was pash , these “caricatures ” just
    show the level of contempt that a nation is held in .
    quicker that we are oot the better !
    That is all.

  80. SquareHaggis says:

    Oil threads are troll threads looks like it’s gonna be another busy day today 😀

    Stay safe folks.

    Thanx Jim T – hope it worked

  81. Papadox says:

    BBC news Norman Smith (Aberdeen) tells us how the NO campaign is building a Lead over YES as seen in the polls, over to prof. Curtice in the studio to explain it. Curtice contradicts Smith. Back to Smith in Aberdeen who carries on regardless with his diatribe, lies and propaganda in good old BBC example of “striving for truth and balance”

    Does Norman work for the secret intelligence agency? Does he hate the Scots or is he just completely incompetent and hopeless at his supposed profession.

    Watch yer back Eck these ain’t nice people!

  82. jingly jangly says:

    All Cameron and co are doing today, is alerting the people of Scotland to the fact they have mismanaged the Oil resources and if they did it properly an extra 10 Billion per year could be accrued.

    They keep on telling us oil is a declining resource, all this publicity on how much the old is still worth will open a few eyes and can only be good for YES

  83. faolie says:

    @Robert Louis: re Alan Bissett

    Jings! Thanks for that. Never heard it before. I’m going to learn it.

  84. @Luke

    “… then I certainly don’t expect to see monolithic references to arrogant, bullying English that usually pepper the site.”

    Let’s see the citations to that charge Luke. Do you have them or don’t you? Well, do you?

    . . . Thought not.
    .

    With respect to Salmond you have made statements that he has accused all England to be guilty of the “crimes” of some politicians.

    Again, provide the citations. Do it now. If you can’t then what should those you have wronged by your defamatory statements think of you? What would a reasonable man or woman conclude about you?

    What good old-fashioned English word would best describe you?

  85. liz says:

    O/T; below is a quote from the herald saying that the Electoral registration officers are keeping an eye on folk in the south trying to register for a vote in the referendum which would be illegal.

    ‘It has also emerged there has been a surge in inquiries about postal voting, which could produce a record number in the autumn poll.’

    Also in the herald they are making a big deal out of the PJ ‘poll’.

  86. cearc says:

    Taranaich,

    Please, coffee warnings! I just choked on ‘Merkel in lederhosen?’

  87. Fergus says:

    I think everyone should calm down here.

    It’s just satire, they are not to be taken seriously. They poke fun at all political persuasions, every day.

    Instead of ranting here, we should be going out and making the case for the Yes vote in a positive way.

  88. Gillie says:

    Maybe by creating a Scottish BLACK LIST of English political cartoonists we can make a bigger point.

    Lets see the faces of these people who call us names, despoil our country and challenge them to explain themselves.

    Who are these b******s?

  89. john king says:

    “The whole of England isn’t routinely cast as arrogant, colonial, overbearing, bullying, Imperialist, unfair, hoity toighty. The entire country is never misrepresented as London or Westminster. Especially not by the First Minister. Oh no.”

    Thats the way Luke,
    if you cant find a disagreement make one up,
    there are no xenophobes here why don’t you look on the daily Hate mails pages if that’s what your looking for.

  90. fishcumnock says:

    As above vote yes westmonster have had their chance with
    our oil money , see how their repayments scheme adds up
    without it .

  91. wingman 2020 says:

    I find it entirely humorous that observers imagine that its merely Cameron’s face and Conservative policy that is driving a YES vote. It’s a meme from the Thatcher era that has been superseded by one that detests what Westminster has meant to Scotland.

    Westminster doesn’t work for Scotland. It never has. The Labour party used to be good at pretending they were defending the residents of Scotland. Recently they have been ‘found out’ as the new right-wing party. (Blair hid it well by playing two sides of the fence and overspending)

    Surely people must be coming to the realisation that Labour’s shift to the right at Westminster, causes equal consternation to the residents of Scotland as Tories in power. More especially, after Milliband promised to govern like Thatcher, and Balls nailed his political scrotum to the Tory mast in the recent currency union moratorium.

    Add Mr. Darlings standing ovation at the Conservatives conference and it should be increasingly apparent that socialism is in the final stages of extinction in the UK.

    Add, the political shift south of the border – UKIP, immigration, nationalism rising, privatisation of NHS, and other services, University fees and increasing austerity, must be sending warning signals to residents of Scotland.

    Add monies made by Darling and Brown in their speaking engagements and Hunt in his Training business, that serve only to confirm to poorer residents of Scotland that Westminster is an alien world.

    And who wants to be governed by lying aliens, never mind truthful ones.

    Regardless of ‘How hard or impossible’ unionists would describe the challenges facing a ‘New Scotland’, there is no doubt that we can do better than the corrupt and ineffective two party system at Westminster.

    Scotland can reinvent itself as a nimble, flexible and progressive country that has an opportunity for a government that can find balanced solutions that protect equality and encourage business prosperity.

    The Independence battle is now on the plains of poverty and austerity. It is a battle between the Estates and impoverished of Scotland, and the Westminster elite.

    Scottish Labour, meanwhile, has abandoned the battle, preferring to pretend that it’s a nationalism rather than socialism, driven debate.

    If Scottish Labour had ONE decent leader, they’d already be forming a Scottish Labour breakaway from Blue-Labour in the South.

    The reason for ALL these cartoons is simply the disdain of the rich for the poor. Scottish Independence is about a country kept physically and metaphorically in a state of poverty by Westminster (aided and abetted by Labour)

    Its a shame that there are still so many people in Scotland who ‘doff their caps’ to their ‘Betters’ together.

  92. Stuart Black says:

    Not all metropolitan cartoonists are the same. I have posted this link previously, but for the benefit of new Wingers, here is one of Martin Rowson’s efforts; a great counter-balance to his Guardian colleague Steve Bell, featured above.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2011/may/09/snp-victory-scottish-elections-cartoon

  93. Alexandra-M- says:

    Those cartoons aren’t funny at all. I can take a good jibe at the Scottish as well as the next woman, but those are just horrible. I’m sad that this passes as acceptable conduct by a media who should be fair and impartial – but I’m mostly angry.

    Let’s just hope that with each “cartoon” we get a few more people to open their eyes and vote yes!

  94. Gillie says:

    Let’s see the faces of these English cartoonists?

    Don’t let hide behind their offensive caricatures of Scots and Scotland.

  95. The Rough Bounds says:

    It’s gloves off guys. Stand by for your orders.

  96. magnus barelegs says:

    ugly shitrags treat them with the utter contempt they deserve. panic has set into them no question and they are lashing out showing there true hateful xenophobic anti scottish colours, big mistake on there part though does nothing for the already vapid unionist cause.

  97. English end of the peer comedy and postcards has always centred on defication and sex of the buttoned up kind … it doesn’t come as a surprise to see our politicians depicted as gas blowing rectums.

    Repressed Etonians are no different, they have problems adjusting to life beyond cold showers and dormitory fags.

  98. Barontorc says:

    refresh p@ge

  99. Papadox says:

    @Betty Boop says:
    Unfortunately got a load of this rubbish also this morning. I’m sure EBC must have a pool of these tragic pathetic souls who are totally selfish and full of self loathing and contempt for themselves, truly very sad. Imagine sitting next to one of them on a long flight?

    Truly pathetic creatures, I’m sorry to say their life is an endurance test.

  100. an_obersver says:

    @SquareHaggis, @Jim T

    Nowhere in Luke’s post did he accuse Alex Salmond of personally sharing anti-English views – he was talking about this website.

    Read what he wrote.

  101. chalks says:

    No point in replying to ‘Luke’ folks, he doesn’t reply.

    The calling card of a troll.

  102. Stuart Black says:

    And here’s Mr Rowson’s take on the Aberdeen cabinet meetings from the Observer yesterday. That’s Eck dancing on top of the spherical vessel, not sure if that’s the vicky, or if he’s just waving. Rowson’s got the UK cabinet down to a tee!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/feb/23/scottish-independence-davidcameron?commentpage=1

  103. faolie says:

    @The Rough Bounds says: It’s gloves off guys. Stand by for your orders.

    That would be the RIC mobilising the army of the unregistered then?

    See related Herald story and Bateman comment.

  104. magnus barelegs says:

    to that gimp norman smith up is down and left is right, just another agenda pushing mouthpiece for the british bullshit corporation c/o westminster plc.

    the arrogance and delusion of these people is frightening. is it the colonial mindset? i think it is.

  105. Jim Arnott says:

    On this day of all days we should read the article from the Independent which I have retitled “We Wuz Robbed” It can be found here at: http://ind.pn/S5ZtJZ

    Hazel Lewry also has a layperson’s take on the McCrone Report which is well worth a read http://bit.ly/SZ4m4P

  106. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    I strongly suspect that telling us Scots that we are unable to properly handle our oil industry will backfire on the Tory led BT campaign to the same extent as telling us we can’t retain the pound.

    Their media arms have developed from patronizing us, to out and out racism. If there is ever a time to keep our cool it’s now. Use our intellect to dismantle their bile, which clearly is based upon panic.

  107. Midgehunter says:

    Not hearing so much from Al Darling lately, has he at last been moved out of the way because of failure? Labour/BT (the front) have failed to make any headway with scaremongering and puerile nonsense.

    The Tories are probably pi**ed off by now and seem to be coming more to the front and turning up the heat. Swinging the big hammer and trying to show BT how it’s done, there’s definitly more pressure being used.

  108. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    The argument is between supporters of Scottish rule and those who support rule by Westminster. It is not an argument between the Scots and the English or between the Scots and anyone else.

    The only people who claim the contrary are supporters of Westminster rule, who generally take their information from newspapers and the mainstream media – which all support Westminster rule, and who simplify and distort the debate by publishing scurrilous nonsense of the kind shown in these cartoons.

    Anyone self-doubting enough to vote no is probably not going to have the sense to see through these distortions, in part because they lack the imagination to see themselves as separate from the stereotypes on which these cartoons (and the text surrounding them) are based.

    Somehow they have to be helped to escape their dependency on these sources of information.

  109. Luigi says:

    This week has barely started and we already have:

    A basketfull of offensive anti-Scottish cartoons

    A ridiculous opinion poll result

    A long list of ‘experts’ spouting anti-Scottish rubbish

    The first cabinet meeting held in Scotland since they lost Ireland

    Aye, we are approaching the end game now.
    It’s getting dirty, really dirty.

  110. a Supporter says:

    Geoff Huijer at 10:15 am

    “They really are stirring up resentment. We really are seen as the ‘poor’ neighbours in this ‘Union'”.

    The stirring up of resentment is correct your other sentence is not. What the cartoons are actually showing is childish resentment that Scotland is more or less telling them they are useless fuds, we don’t need them, and we are dumping them. They are the embittered soon to be impoverished spouse.

    And their attacks on Alex S are because no matter what they do he is imperturbable and confident in his position. The insults do not stick. So their only recourse is to call him names. Childish.

    Add to that the brainwashing in their newspapers which suggests that we do not like them and lo and behold we get hate mail back in the form of anti-Scottish cartoons. They do it to every country and its people when a slight is perceived.

    Be happy. It shows we are very important.

  111. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    >Grouse Beater says:
    One good thing to issue from the Referendum is the British establishment and its minions coming out of the woodwork

    .. like the rats and snakes coming out of a sugar cane field when it is set on fire …

    (no offence to rats and snakes)

  112. magnus barelegs says:

    its unionist supporters in a nutshell , none so blind as though who cant see or in the lame duck unionists case dont want to see.

    scottish independence over westminster dependence every time.

  113. orri says:

    Not entirely smart that last one. Implying that someone would wipe their arse with the United States Declaration of Independence.

  114. bunter says:

    Oh dear, a hairdresser on daily politics asked his opinion on indy and mentions Braveheart. Click.

  115. heedtracker says:

    But all of these English cartoons do some much for Scottish independence. I stick them on the notice board at work but stopped buying their newspapers and use adblock too.

  116. Jamie Arriere says:

    “Salmond’s xenophobic jingoistic narrative”

    Quotes please!

  117. Papadox says:

    The daily politics has now picked up the WE HATE SCOTLAND, THEY ARE A JOKE. Theme of the EBC.

    Thanks Norman Smith & Jo Coburn. Now we are getting the opinion of someone who cuts hair.

    EBC ridiculing, besmirching and belittling the Scottish country and people, laughing at us!

    I’m sure the proud pseudo middle class NO Scots are very proud of the help their superiors are giving them, and rubbing their noses in it. They know they are different.

  118. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Cabinet meets in Scotland for the 3rd time EVER.
    P&J has a Loony Tunes poll on its front page.

    🙂

    Everybody just keep doing whatever you are all doing …

  119. a Supporter says:

    All of the nonsense, Cameron’s love bombing, Osborne’s bad cop, the WM Cabinet in Aberdeen, and an anti-Salmond onslaught in the English and Scottish press, look like it has been planned as a co-ordinated attack to try and halt the momentum to YES.

    It isn’t going to work, firstly because as has been noted elsewhere, newspapers are now a minor source of information about the Indy Ref, secondly the circulation of the English papers up here is too low to have any effect on voters, and thirdly politics is boring, boring, boring for the ordinary man in the street.

    In a few weeks the current attacks will all have run out of steam and be forgotten, just like the Olympics, and on 30th May the real campaign will start when BBC and ITV will not be able to support NO so blatantly and the YES campaign will move up a few gears,

  120. Luke says:

    So after a bit of consideration I’m happy to concede I was wrong about Salmond. Genuine, sincere Apologies on that one. A bit dismayed by how easily I fell into that.

    My further concerns about stretoyping and generalisaiton from supports of the Yes camp have however not been allayed by reading this very comment thread. Three examples this morning:

    “And on an other Post Southerner commented that he didn’t believe that there was any animosity towards the Scots from the English”

    “If all those racist stereotypes were used for a visible minority it rightly would be slammed but just as it’s us it’s ok. UK catoonists maintaing a fine old english tradition of perpetuing racist nonsense going back to1707. “

    “These cartoons are typical of (and I use this term after some thought) a very Southern English attitude to people who do not bend the knee to London.
    It is xenophobia. It is also an indictment of what England has become. Snarling, vicious, diminished and petty minded.
    Take a look back in history, and you will find Charles Edward Stuart around 1745, depicted in English newspapers as a Scottish destitute drunk in the gutter, uttering obscenities.”

    Re the latter-it couldn’t possibly have to do with the satirical tradition of political cartoon, sending up a Catholic, European, foreign invader to a Protestant country of course. Reading nationalism backwards doesn’t work. Half of Scotland was opposed to Charles Stuart for the same reason.

    This sort of generalisation, which I was (wrongly) accusing Salmond of is still very present on the comment threads here.

    Nationalism is a feeling, it’s not an answer to a puzzle. It nearly always ends up in simplifying complex issues at best, and bigotry at worst.

  121. Stuart Black says:

    Oh, incidentally, in case anyone gets the wrong idea, my admiration for Rowson’s cartoons do not in any way excuse the shite posted by Bell and the others at the top of this article, my own personal loathing is directed towards Bell’s horrible “Scotland can go xxxx itself” effort, as used by JM OBE as an avatar on the Herald. I won’t post a link, nobody should be made to look at that shameful piece of bigotry.

    There is a long and noble tradition that politicians should be lampooned in this fashion, but I think we can all agree that the cartoons above, in concert, have passed a considerable way over normal lampooning and, in fact, consist of border-line racism, to be honest. And maybe not so borderline at that.

  122. BuckieBraes says:

    Trouble is, I don’t actually understand some of these. The Marilyn Monroe reference in the first cartoon – what’s that all about? And the second one makes Salmond look like David Dickinson.

    It’s just too bad being a thick Jock instead of a sophisticated Metropolitan type.

  123. Steeley says:

    It doesn’t even feel like a Unionist attack on separatism at all, but more like a chance for some in the English media to have a bit of racist fun at the Scots expense.

  124. jim arnott says:

    Today’s Daily Politics must be the most farcical and bizarre edition ever. Discussing North Sea Oil and Scotland’s future and the BBC’s expert/pundit is the late Thatchers hairdresser.

  125. magnus barelegs says:

    you dont patronise and ridicule the scots and get away with it.

  126. Papadox says:

    Do you think that a country who extinguished us as a country.
    A country who treats you with utter contempt.
    Who think of you as a joke.
    Who steal from you.
    Who tell you lies.
    Who deceive you.

    Who would chose this person as a friend? (Other than a proud NO Scot) NO BRAINER!

  127. Gillie says:

    These cartoons are in reality a depiction of Scotland being the abused partner of an increasingly resentful and fearful England.

  128. muttley79 says:

    I was commenting on an article written by Ruth Wishart on the Guardian’s Cif yesterday and I read this comment:

    “The snp side with greens and specialists…….the Scots think independence is on offer…… but it’s actually a power grab but a movement akin to the national socialist third Reich.

    Blood will be spilt before this sorry affair is concluded.”

    I complained about it, as it in my opinion, compares the independence movement with the Nazis and the Third Reich. It also predicted that there will be fatalities before the referendum or at least violence of some kind. I do not usually complain because people often troll and look for attention. However, this kind of a comment is really not on, it is completely toxic. I complained about it yesterday and it is still on the Guardian’s comment page. The mods in the Guardian presumably see it as a fair comment. That tells you a lot about what is taking place at the moment.

  129. Zen Broon says:

    The British state has form in the character assasination of Celts in the pursuit of its political ends.
    Have a look at the cover of this book.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-But-Same-Old-Story/dp/1901005003

  130. Morag says:

    on 30th May the real campaign will start when BBC and ITV will not be able to support NO so blatantly

    Would that I believed that. I think they’re perfectly capable of playing whatever rules there are to go on exactly as they are doing. Maybe both campaigns get equal time, but the tone of the coverage, the deferential agreeing with the unionists while shouting down the independence-supporting spokesmen will continue. As will the blatant lies. And even if there are justifiable complaints, it will be possible to stall any inquiry or corrective action until after the referendum.

    We’re on our own here chaps.

  131. Gillie says:

    We have got to get a clip of celebrity stylist Nicky Clarke giving his views on Scottish independence on the Daily Politics show.

  132. farrochie says:

    Stu,

    Here is a cartoon from current Private Eye (issue 1360).

    http://tinyurl.com/mquga22

  133. Misteralz says:

    Walked around the outside at lunch there. Was passed by a blacked-out Jeep driven by a couple of heavies. I’m guessing GCS stands for Government Central Security or similar?

    I gave them my best contemptuous sneer. I hope they saw. I hope Cameron was in the back, and that he saw as well. I also hope he saw

  134. TJenny says:

    I think ‘southerner’ has changed their handle for this thhread.

  135. Misteralz says:

    …the Yes Scotland lanyard I had on.

    Resolve strengthened even more. We have to win this.

  136. Stuart Black says:

    @Luke. Well done, it’s a difficult thing to admit you’re wrong, so kudos for your honesty.

    However, I think you have the wrong impression of this campaign, it is a campaign of civic nationalism, a call to take our political future in our own hands, and has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with ethnicity. The only minds in which it is an ethnic issue are the ones on the U-KOK side of the debate, who take every chance they can to bang on about sectarianism, bigotry and, above all “foreignness”, whatever they think that means.

    The Yes campaign is a broad church of all nationalities, not least the English, and they are all welcome, because they want what we do, a fairer and more egalitarian place for our children and grandchildren to grow up in, unpolluted by weapons of mass destruction and the pursuit of long dead imperial pretentions.

    Seems fair enough, no?

  137. Luke says:

    @papadox

    A “country” didn’t do anything to you. England isn’t what you claim it be anymore than Germany was Hitler.

    Political deals occurred, wrangled by politicians on both sides, who cared according to certain interests-their own, their parties, their ideologies. English people had no more a say in Union than 1707 than Scots did.

    Some English prospered out of the Union and the Empire, some didn’t. Some Scots did, some didn’t.

    The majority experienced such crippling social immobility that it didn’t matter.

    Nations aren’t individuals-they’re amorphous groups of diverse peoples. It’s no more right for you to assert that England is what you claim than it is for a satirist to assert that Scotland is bagpipes, haggis, whisky and Oor Wully vernacular.

  138. CyberNiall says:

    BBC Daily Politics are discussing today’s Aberdeen cabinet visit with guest expert on North Sea Oil and Economics Nicky Clarke OBE:

    “I think there’s an awful lot of Scottish people that don’t necessarily understand the econo-mix…the economics of the whole thing” – At least we can pronounce it!

    “I do think that he [David Cameron] will be able to, actually, put a number of things forward that people will have to think twice about and gone will be the days of worrying about the romanticised almost braveheart versions of things.”

    Somehow I think the only ones thinking twice will the No voters…

  139. call me dave says:

    Luke

    Thanks for your first sentence where you retract the Salmond allegation.

    Stick around and look through some older threads, There is much information to be got.

    Regards

  140. Helena Brown says:

    On the subject of what do the NO voters think about these. I have come to the conclusion that they do not think it is about them, just these nasty separatists. I pointed out rather too strongly to a gentleman on The Kingdom sight that, and I do hope I am not going to get involved in Godwins Law here, that it did not matter if the Jew had voted for Hitler he still got stuck in the gas chamber with the rest. It may seem extreme but there is a nonsense which I worry is being thought that lies with the complacent that if they vote No they will be fine.

  141. farrochie says:

    And another from Private Eye: http://tinyurl.com/ktt6eoz

  142. Angus says:

    I have a friend in England who took up the call from Cameron and said I hope your voting Yes. He also mentioned the press has whipped up a lot of anti Scottish feelings!

  143. Luke says:

    @ Stuart Black

    My leanings towards Yes rely precisely on that egalitarian notion. I was discussing with my wife how exciting a proto post war British Socialist state, founded upon the values of civic virtue and participation and equality, is a hugely exciting thing. And Scotland could be that I think.

    Two things get me though-one, the Nationalism element which I think I’ve made quite apparent I find to unhelpful at best and poisonous and dangerous at worst. And it is sadly not insignificant in it’s church attendees, if I can put it that way.

    and B-the assurance that this is indeed the point of Independence. It’s what *I* want it to be, but I’m not sure how a state can both have the economic muscle to allow for all the exciting things- robust and affordable health care, education, childcare etc.-without having to sacrifice to Big Business to get that money. I can’t express how disgusting and anti-egalitarian I find the proposal for commercial tax for example, a move which while it will bring wealth will only discourage corporate responsibility further, if not ourtight create an arms race to accommodate it.

  144. Helena Brown says:

    Just noticed Like has got back to us, can I say Luke that yes you were wrong about Mr Salmond but can I tell you about a rather nasty incident which happened on Holiday last year to myself and Husband. We were on a P& O cruise to the Baltic and were visiting the Vasa Museum. The Tour guide for the Museum asked us on the bus where we were from, the reply was immediate, England. She then asked if everyone was from there, we said we were from Scotland, stupidly. We were booed. Now that is how Scots are presently being treated. These were not your average football supporter, no, mostly middle aged well heeled people. I dread to think what will happen if we vote No. I keep my politics under my hat when on holiday so I cannot be considered as having brought this on. Nationalism in Scotland is about Nation not nationality but this does not seem to be the case with many in England.

  145. gordoz says:

    FFS sorry but way below the belt in terms of humour for me personally –

    That all starts to look like mockery & ridicule in the way Jews, the Irish, Asians and Black people have been portrayed in the past.

    Why is this not discussed in the press North of the Border ? Afraid to cover real journalism issues such as this guys? Pathetic the lot of them.

    Oh lets talk about poor David Bowie & Co. This is the first minister of Scotland FFS – Imagine if this was Merkal etc.

  146. Angus says:

    Luke, Northern England is still England, and if you have difficulties with you fellow Englishmen, no point greeting to us, because we will be out of it soon.

  147. gordoz says:

    @ Luke – Salmond comments

    Sounds like you’ve been listening to the production line Labour Mantra – better to check the facts.

  148. Stuart Black says:

    @Luke: Yes, I agree, an exciting future on a Yes vote right enough. I genuinely don’t see this poisonous thread of nationalism that is putting you off though. Discounting the brain-dead and the insane on both sides of the argument, I’m struggling to find any serious evidence for your claims.

    Actually, in the face of the recent onslaught of contemptuous sneering from the likes of “Lord” Digby Whatsisface, Bob Mills, Katie Hopkins, Richard (where did that champagne come from?) Madeley, and all the rest, I think the Yes campaign has remained remarkably tolerant.

    You’re already like Greece, you’re going to be like Kosovo and Southern Sudan, yet there’s hardly been a nose bleed from this campaign, never mind the thousands of deaths that other independence movements suffered.

    Pretty civil, in my view. 😉

  149. Claire McNab says:

    The London media’s current fetish for racist stereotyping of Scottish people is uncannily like its racist portrayal of Irish people who had the cheek to seek Home Rule in the 19th century. Punch magazine excelled at imagery designed to hammer home the message that Irish people could barely manage to stand upright, let alone run a prosperous country: see a huge collection at https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=punch+cartoons+irish+stereotype&tbm=isch

    After 90 years of independence for 5/6 of Ireland, that stereotype doesn’t look so relevant. In the OECD rankings of GDP per capita, Ireland is in 8th place. The UK is 16th.
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0039/00390896.pdf

  150. Harry Shanks says:

    @ Luke

    I’m amused that you label “Nationalism” as “poisonous” and “dangerous”, yet you proclaim that “Socialism” is “exciting”?

    Your thinking is a little too black and white for my liking.

    Cannot nationalism be exciting – and has there not been periods in history when Socialism has been poisonous and dangerous?

    Take the blinkers off, Luke.

  151. Johnny come lately says:

    The powers that be aren’t so daft. This smacks of a government conditioning public opinion south of the border to be glad to be shot of these pesky Jocks.

  152. Papadox says:

    James Cook EBC Scotland correspondent

    According to EBC there is 12-24 billion barrels of oil still to come out of the North Sea, and the best years have passed, so how much has been taken out over the last 40 years? Seems strange.

    Another 4 billion barrels on offer. Plus many more exploration sites to be drilled.

    We ain’t to poor that is for sure (unless we give it to Cameron). We ain’t to wee that’s for sure.
    Unfortunately I fear we may be to stupid (at least the proud middle class Scots are, in spades)

  153. kd says:

    You are all thick as mince. You have this twisted view that nobody likes/cares about scotland. This website is propaganda and all you suckers get drawn in. You are alex salmonds wet dream. You cant think for yourselves.

  154. call me dave says:

    Mr Salmond will have a carbon capture scheme at Peterhead post independence while Mr Davey says it’s a decision for the UK government in 2015 and it’s not a bribe… really it’s not!

    http://archive.is/GrTwK

  155. Stuart Black says:

    “According to EBC there is 12-24 billion barrels of oil still to come out of the North Sea, and the best years have passed, so how much has been taken out over the last 40 years? Seems strange.”

    According to our arithmetically challenged ex-Chancellor, Mr Flipper Darling, there is only two billion barrels left. Mind you, he also thinks the population of Scotland runs to six million, it’s not surprising that he claimed expenses for an accountant to complete his tax return whilst Chancelling away at the Exchequer.

  156. Stuart Black says:

    ‘are’ dammit, ‘are’!

  157. Luke says:

    @Harry Shanks

    The political idea of Nationalism is inherently based on the concept of a people being uniquely deserving on account of where they were born. It is exceptionally difficulty to assert that without asserting the inferiority of others on account of where they were born. People think in terms of hierarchy.

    Nationalism has been exciting in terms of people throwing off colonial oppression for self determination, certainly, but it’s usually become soured and hi-jacked thereafter for the gains of the political parties in question and taken away from the people. I’d be happy to consider an example where this isn’t the case though if you have one.

    Socialism is inherently based on equality. It has been badly hi-jacked, and to be honest I don’t think a Socialist state is viable, as it would basically be a utopia-everyone gets, nobody wants is an equation one person can spoil-but it essential principles of equality are manifest in things like the Welfare state, the political notion that it is right to give some of what you have to ensure everyone has the bare essentials to live. That’s’ what I meant.

    @Helena Brown

    I’m very sorry to hear that happened to you. For my part I’ve been assaulted for being English, chased, intimidated, abused on a few occasions, not by drunks or at least not openly football fans. Assuming we take each other’s experience as given I can suggest that we therefore that both English and Scottish people are more or less equaly racist to each other, or we move past it and not tar everyone with the same brush and assume most people aren’t so prejudiced . I can’t see any other way of approaching the issue.

  158. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The political idea of Nationalism is inherently based on the concept of a people being uniquely deserving on account of where they were born.”

    No. The political idea of ETHNIC nationalism is. Civic nationalism is really the opposite of nationalism.

  159. Trevor the Squirrel says:

    I do find the whole Better Together campaign rather shocking. I feel I should state that I am an english woman from the south who has lived in Scotland for nearly 19 years. At the start I was a don’t know and having read around excellent sites like Wings etc am now a committed Yes. For me its about self-determination for the people living in Scotland and a desire to see Scotland blossom further, which it will after a Yes. The shocking thing is that I have never been on the receiving end of a ruthless campaign by the establishment in Westminster to try undermine a democratic, mandated vote. I do not find the Yes campaign or SNP anti-english in any way and dislike the attempt of commentators to try to make it that.

    For what its worth I find the depiction of Scottish people in cartoons in the media pretty crass and shocking.

  160. chicmac says:

    @Taranaich
    “Would any of these (many of them supposedly liberal/socialist) papers portray the François Hollande dressed as an Onion Johnny with striped shirt, beret, festooned with onions & riding a bicycle? Would they depict Mariano Rajoy dressed as a matador? Merkel in lederhosen?”

    TBH I wouldn’t fall off my chair in surprise.

    Also, their use of kilts, whisky, haggis, etc. memes doesn’t bother me too much Depends on context. And anyway, I don’t consider the paramount in cultural terms.

  161. chicmac says:

    Dang! forgetting to check the edit window before hitting post again.

  162. Robert Louis says:

    Bottom line with the oil is this, Scotland has a diverse economy, dependent upon no single sector. Without the oil, an independent Scotland’s GDP per capita is as good (99% of UK) as the UK, with the oil included however, it rockets to number 6 on global wealth rankings.

    The Scottish economy is NOT dependent upon the oil, rather the oil is an additional economic asset.

    The ONLY reason Cameron and his unionist cronies are talking about oil, is because they want it rather than let the Scots have it.

    Seriously, Scots would need to be insane NOT to vote for independence.

  163. Trevor the Squirrel says:

    I have never been on the receiving end of a ruthless campaign by the establishment in Westminster to try to undermine a democratic, mandated vote, BEFORE, sorry I missed the ‘before’ bit off my last post

  164. r whittington says:

    Calm down everyone! It’s not personal and its called political satire. Cartoons like this appear every day poking fun at all types of politicians. Key is to show that you are not so uptight as to take offence (queue ‘dick’ Whittington and his cat remarks!)

  165. Taranaich says:

    @BuckieBraes: Trouble is, I don’t actually understand some of these. The Marilyn Monroe reference in the first cartoon – what’s that all about? And the second one makes Salmond look like David Dickinson.

    My interpretation is that if we really did see Salmond’s “resources” (because Salmond is Scotland, of course), we’d see that they’re really much smaller than he’d make them out to be, perhaps as a take on the Unionists’ “there isn’t as much oil as the SNP like to say” claim.

    In fact, I’ll have a go at seeing if I can discern the others:

    The Mirror – I’m not sure, but I think the cartoonist is suggesting either independence, or the UK, is a beartrap: Scotland would be impoverished, Wales consigned to the dustbin, whereas England’s ties to the US would be impoverished. If nothing else, at least this one’s arguing that England might suffer in the event of a Yes vote as well as Scotland, however wrong-headed the sentiment might be. And, as per usual, poor Northern Ireland’s nowhere to be seen…

    The Express – another “too poor” one, though I think you could argue a slight pro-indy (or at least anti-Westminster) tint, since it portrays Osborne as a well-off toff refusing to give a pound to a stereotypical Scotsman clearly hard on his luck. Or perhaps the cartoonist’s depiction of discarded beer cans implies that the Scots deserve to be impoverished?

    The Times – Alex Salmond, and by extention Scottish politics, are a “Mickey Mouse Outfit” (idiom meaning “not important or not good compared with other things of the same type (always before noun) “We’re talking about a respected organization here – not some Mickey-Mouse outfit.””) I don’t understand the Times’ really quite ugly brutality here: wouldn’t killing a cute cartoon mouse be considered, you know, a mean, unkind thing?

    The Independent – doesn’t know how bagpipes work.

    The Guardian – urm, I don’t recall Mr Salmond ever asserting a desire to “take away” the pound from England, certainly not in the way Westminster’s “taking away” Scotland’s freedom to self-determination. Bit of a daft one, though at least they’re portraying th English in as much of a satirical light as Scotland (albeit I don’t know who England’s meant to be – Lord Humongous of Mad Max 2?)

    The Telegraph again – And here we see Alex Salmond, that famed Europhobic… rushing off to curry favour with Brussels? Tomorrow, we see that famed anti-banker George Osborne suddenly be forced to fight for banker’s bonuses? That legendary pro-immigrant Nigel Farage petitions for stronger borders?

    The Independent Again – Because fat jokes make your case.

    The Times Again – seriously, do they not realise that shooting a cartoon mouse in gory detail might not necessarily convey the message they want to send? If I wasn’t already aware of the falseness that the Coalition + Labour “refused” the currency, I’d take the notion that it’s the Coalition + Labour who were being unreasonable here, acting like the mafia they clearly are. I have to wonder if the Times cartoonist isn’t in fact a stealth pro-indy artist.

    The Guardian Again – The pound is a bouncy castle, and Salmond/Scotland are weighing it down? Lord Humongous thinks the Bouncy Pound is his?

    The Independent Again – Salmond’s talkin’ oot his erse, the White Paper is toilet paper. By far the most offensive of the lot, as it isn’t just anti-Salmond, it’s against the very idea of Scottish self-determination.

  166. Stuart Black says:

    “You are all thick as mince. You have this twisted view that nobody likes/cares about scotland. This website is propaganda and all you suckers get drawn in. You are alex salmonds wet dream. You cant think for yourselves.”

    We’re not too bad at grammar, though. 🙂

  167. I’m a long-time lurker – thanks for a wonderful site, Rev and to all the regular commenters. I just felt the need to sign up to respond to Luke’s comments. I find it a bit sad that he’s having to trawl these threads to find anything that he perceives to be remotely anti-English as a way of trying to justify the regular anti-Scottish rantings in the English/UK msm.

    The point is Luke, the cartoons reproduced above are in mainstream newspapers in England. As others have pointed out, they are clearly racist, xenophobic and would be a criminal offence were they directed at any other group. Please show me one – just one – comparable example in Scotland’s msm of similar anti-Englishness. I’ll save you time; you can’t.

    As you keep saying, countries aren’t individuals – so, to compare the occasional comment made by an individual to a concerted mainstream media attack on entire nation and/or their democratically elected leader is just specious. In truth, there is NO anti-Englishness involved in Scotland’s attempts to be independent. It is, purely, to do with wanting an end to Westminster rule and to make our own decisions for ourselves. Anyone who attempts to say otherwise is either a flat out liar or has a insurmountable chip on their shoulder.

    Anyhoo, having said all that – and sorry for the length – I shall take myself off again. Love to all on here; it really is a pleasure to read this site and everyone’s comments and views.

  168. hetty says:

    Luke
    I hail from the NE of England, and witnessed first hand the poverty which still goes on today. I feel not one iota of patriotism regards England. The North East is treated with as much contempt and disrespect as Scotland by the rich boys down in westminster.

    As an SNP member I do not in any way feel like a nationalist and the term is used to create fear and undermine the positive sense of cultural and social identity which is inherent in the Scottish psyche.

    Alex Salmond called the English “our friends” recently, he has more integrity and honesty in his little finger than the westmonster cabinet put together.

  169. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Luke says:
    but I’m not sure how a state can both have the economic muscle to allow for all the exciting things- robust and affordable health care, education, childcare etc.-without having to sacrifice to Big Business to get that money.

    From what we can see, it looks like Westminster is 100% owned by Big Business.
    Once we vote YES in September, the people of Scotland will put in place a fairer relationship between the State and business.

    We see no way to do that in our lifetimes, if we remain in the UK. In a country of 5 million people, with the foundation that has been laid by the existing Devolved Parliament, we can see a way to continue the journey in a manner of our choosing.

    You only need to watch the video clip of the Ivan McKee at 10:25am, and look at the attitude of the interviewer, to see that the game is over as regards Scotland remaining in the UK.

    In terms of civic nationalism, I put a link at 7:42am today on the “Wrong Number” thread to John McGrath’s The Cheviot the Stag and the Black Black Oil.

    It is from 40 years ago, but nothing changes. Every Scot should see this film, or better still, see a production of the play, as should anyone in the world who seeks social fairness and is in need of inspiration.

    I was lucky enough to meet John McGrath two or three times, the last time in Edinburgh at the Festival, not long before he died. John was born in Birkenhead, and championed Scottish independence and radical politics.

    If we manage to get an independent Scotland, and there is then any talk of statues, it is people like John that deserve commemorating.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McGrath_%28playwright%29

  170. Tony Williams says:

    Stuart Black is?

  171. Midgie says:

    Those cartoons just made me really sad.

    I’m surprised by how shocked I am – but seeing them all together is a bit like being at school and finding out your pals are in a wee huddle, laughing at you.

    If Scotland manages to produce a No vote, how will we ever convince ourselves that Westminster and/or the London media have any respect for us at all?

    I lived in England for years and have lots of precious ties there to family, friends and memories – I don’t want to think this kind of nastiness is representative 🙁

  172. Many years ago I remember Salmond discussing the subject of him in a kilt, and he said that he didn’t wear the kilt and he would not do so, apart from in one specific situation which he didn’t elaborate on. He was actually quite cryptic about it. I sort of wondered at the time if he was talking about independence day.

    I imagine for the same reason I would refuse to wear it. It’s as Scottish as our media is. Not very. It is, at its heart a skirt. It was imposed on us by the Hannovarians after the British government banned the traditional full body kilt.

  173. HandandShrimp says:

    Richard

    Yes it is political satire and the satire is running in only one direction. That is OK though because we know we are the enemy and we know what the fight is.

    As to calming down, you should also mention that to Tories who get uptight about the Condom running joke in the Guardian or the Labour supporters who get annoyed by the caricatures of Ed. Political cartoons are designed to annoy, it is what they do if they are any good.

    However, being annoyed is not a crime, anger can be a very positive energy if channeled correctly.

  174. Ed Margerum says:

    The Better Together Boys Jeremiads concerning an Independent Scotland reminds me of Thomas Hardy’s poem “The Ruined Maid”

    “O ‘Melia, my dear, this does everything crown!
    Who could have supposed I should meet you in Town?
    And whence such fair garments, such prosperi-ty?” —
    “O didn’t you know I’d been ruined?” said she.

    — “You left us in tatters, without shoes or socks,
    Tired of digging potatoes, and spudding up docks;
    And now you’ve gay bracelets and bright feathers three!” —
    “Yes: that’s how we dress when we’re ruined,” said she.

    — “At home in the barton you said thee’ and thou,’
    And thik oon,’ and theäs oon,’ and t’other’; but now
    Your talking quite fits ‘ee for high compa-ny!” —
    “Some polish is gained with one’s ruin,” said she.

    — “Your hands were like paws then, your face blue and bleak
    But now I’m bewitched by your delicate cheek,
    And your little gloves fit as on any la-dy!” —
    “We never do work when we’re ruined,” said she.

    — “You used to call home-life a hag-ridden dream,
    And you’d sigh, and you’d sock; but at present you seem
    To know not of megrims or melancho-ly!” —
    “True. One’s pretty lively when ruined,” said she.

    — “I wish I had feathers, a fine sweeping gown,
    And a delicate face, and could strut about Town!” —
    “My dear — a raw country girl, such as you be,
    Cannot quite expect that. You ain’t ruined,” said she.

  175. Stuart Black says:

    “Stuart Black is?”

    I’m a bit apprehensive about asking here, but what is the question again?

  176. Macandroid says:

    @Jim Arnott

    Hazel Lewry also has a layperson’s take on the McCrone Report which is well worth a read http://bit.ly/SZ4m4P

    Could one of our legal experts tell us whether or not Westminster, by using the Official Secrets Act to hide the McCrone report, effectively treated Scotland as a hostile, foreign country and, in doing so, broke the Treaty of Union (at the very least)?

  177. Stuart Black says:

    @Tony Williams: I’m not sure Tony, what the Stuart Black is? means but, on the grounds that you may have thought that I wrote the italicised quote in my previous comment, I should point out that it was posted by someone called kd, the throw-away grammar point at the end was my very own.

    Ironic, I suppose, seeing as I mistakenly used “is” for “are” just before that post! 😉

  178. Dick Gaughan says:

    All I get from those “cartoons” is an overwhelming stench of fear and panic. They have no idea of the real long-term consequences of peddling this crap. A massive majority for Yes is the only way of responding it.

    They still won’t get it, they’ll crawl off into a corner and sulk, bleating about those evil Scots being so horrible after they treated us so nicely. Ok, they made a few jokes about us but can’t we take a joke?

    Faith, people. We’ve been saying for months that it was going to get dirty and nasty, and it’ll get much worse. But if this is the best they can come up with then they’ve already lost.

  179. David says:

    Would they be allowed to draw these xenophobic stereotypes about any other nation without being called racist? Doubt it.

  180. geeo says:

    @luke.

    While it is to be welcomed that you have revisited your original comment,it is still wrong for you to criticise this site for the comments you later quote.

    People are entitled to express their opinions as long as obvious boundaries are not crossed,even when faced with severe provocation people should retain their composure,dignity and by doing so occupy the moral high ground,and rightfully so.

    When you consider the current racist overtones and downright condescension aimed directly and shamelessly at Scotland and Scots, then the mature reaction shown on here is a telling measure of those who post on here.

    It really bugs me when people apologise then start their next sentence with,”but”.

  181. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    24 February, 2014 at 1:39 pm“The political idea of Nationalism is inherently based on the concept of a people being uniquely deserving on account of where they were born.”

    No. The political idea of ETHNIC nationalism is. Civic nationalism is really the opposite of nationalism.

    Bloody well said, Rev. Exactly. This is civic nationalism. The other primary variant of nationalism is abhorrent to the vast majority of Scots; pretty much all of us, in point of fact, who find the likes of the BNP and UKIP well beyond the line where the other type of nationalism starts.

  182. HandandShrimp says:

    Luke

    In response to your earlier piece I would just like to add my voice to those saying that this is not about “my country right or wrong” anti-anybody nationalism. For me the goal is a social and political one. Scotland is an identity for sire but it is a social, political and legal identity that has specific ways of viewing the world and how to tackle everyday issues and problems. I appreciate that those in the north of England probably more closely identify with Scottish aspirations than those of the stockbroker belt to the south. However, I think Westminster might have a bigger sulk if we started redrawing boundaries than we are dealing with at the moment.

    So this cause we fight for is looking towards the future not the past and includes all the people of Scotland including the hundreds of thousands of English people who settled here as well as Italians, Asians, Chinese and Poles.

    If you want to see true attacks on a nationality look at pieces by people like Simon Heffer or Max Hastings in the Daily Mail, where Scots are reduced to deepfried heroin burger eating subsidy junkies. I would add though that I hold only Heffer and Co responsible for these caricatures not the good people of England.

    I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t wrap myself in a flag a reading a verse of Blind Harry every night before I go to bed. I prefer to think what we could do for social justice, equality of opportunity and ambition for young and old alike. I don’t mean that the streets will be lined with gold but rather than there will be less inequality, better care and stronger social cohesion and straight forward old fashioned happiness. I may be a dreamer…etc.,

  183. Barontorc says:

    On the question of overt racism it’s clear Scots are considered as outside the protection of this law and fair game for all and sundry; including cretinous cartoonists, Hyslops and Starkeys by the dozen, so why should we be surprised or offended?

    Its also been said that to make the same comments against a black man or a Jew would immediately incur the law’s wrath; by that same reckoning would that also cover a black man or Jew who’s living and working in Scotland and entitled to vote in the upcoming referendum and who perhaps also chooses to wear a kilt and considers himself to be a Scot?

    Are these guys non-Scots? Would such a comment then be racist?

  184. mogabee says:

    H&S

    But you’re not the only one…!

  185. @Luke

    Your carping at Scottish nationalism is misplaced.

    It is small country nationalism not big country imperialism.

    You confuse the two.

    Small country nationalism rarely gets beyond a pride in one place, traditions, and culture. It does not denote uncritical acceptance of negative qualities or vices. Governed wisely it means egalitarianism, and genuine democratic structures and powers easily accessible and accountable to the people.

  186. Bill McLean says:

    Luke appears to believe that only Scottish nationalism is to be criticized. Our belief is in civic nationalism for our people to be free to run their own affairs – not a lot to ask. How does Luke feel about British nationalism which has brought so much trouble to much of the world and is rampant to this day in the minds of those who imagine some sort of racial superiority (the worst possible type of nationalism! My English (Brummie) wife was verbally abused in Kefalonia when asked by a Geordie if she was in favour of Scottish Independence – when she answered Yes, both the man and his wife started shouting at her. When I asked him to mind his manners he threatened me physically. Luckily, when I stood up he sat down. There’s an element in the English
    psychological set up that is akin to bullying. Do as I do, do as I say, think as I do or you are for it. That’s why they love to help the US in its military adventures – bullies cling to other bullies. I’m not generalizing – most English folk are fine but the types who are attacking, laughing at and denying us our right to a free democratic country are a breed on their own who haven’t recovered from losing the vast majority of the Empire! God help us if NO is the outcome!

  187. Please make a large list of all non Scottish sponsors of these and any other racist/biased newspapers so we can promote their competitors products, you should provide free advertisement for them too to this massive readership explaining why they are there beneath each ad.

  188. Appleby says:

    Beware the smear and black propaganda efforts by Westminster or the media spin machine, Luke! Don’t know anyone aware of the mismanagement of Scotland that isn’t also aware that the north of England has had a terrible time of it too and that there’s areas of poverty around UK. All down to how Westminster manage or how much or little they care about those parts. Atos, austerity and bailouts tell us all what we are in for with Westminster and that’s what we want to escape – the giant self-serving old boy’s club that has burrowed in like a tick. It’s just not working for us and has been downhill for decades.

    Add to that that English living in Scotland have never been turned away from Yes campaign if they wanted to help too and some serving in Scottish government now. It’d be hard to imagine someone being biased against someone they elected or chose for their government/party/cabinet/etc.! You’d be as welcome in an independant Scotland too.

    It’s a positive and inclusive campaign from Yes and for a good reason, we’re hoping for positive outcomes and working towards a better future and not looking for austerity or using some ethnic scapegoat like the Scots have been for Westminster and establishment press over the years, claiming we’re a burden, etc.

    Yes has an informative and positive campaign you look at the other side and it’s all fearmongering and threats, “can’t do” and we see Labour and Tory all climbing into bed with each other when they told us they were meant to be opposites and enemies for so long?

    Highlighting the hugely biased media and the poisonous attitudes that have developed as a result of the negative campaign from Westminster’s efforts is important. You look at these articles and cartoons and it shows us and makes us feel hated, an unwanted minority. These are the people most of the country traditionally gets their information and opinions from on Scotland and the debate. The establishment is dead against Scotland’s independence and there are no mainstream media outlets that are pro-indy. Considering how many support it (even at the lowest estimates from the opposition it’s still a significant chunk of the population) that is a bizarre deficit in a democracy to have so little media support for it and shows the dangers of having a press that largely isn’t based or own in your own country. It’s been a grassroots and uphill battle all the way.

  189. Helena Brown says:

    @ Luke, I think you missed the point, I have never seen or heard a bus full of Scots do what was done to us. These were adults in the way, and please I am sorry, if you are football supporters or young adults, are not. I have heard of young men fighting over many things, sometimes the time of day. These were people who had earned enough in their lifetime to have known better. Let us say on that occasion it was Scotland one, England nil. the impression made by them on the Swedish Guide must have been really good.
    Now about this nasty nationalism. You missed what I was saying that the Scottish National Party is working for the Nation of Scotland, ergo that we have all nationalities in the Party, English French Pakistani I dare say we will have Poles and Romania’s given time. England is much more worked up about immigrants than we are.
    I should say I am old enough to remember the fuss made by Labour Politicians from the North of England during the 1979 referendum on Devolution.

  190. r whittington says:

    @handandshrimp
    I would mention it if this were a comments page for said torie supporters but its not. I feel a little pespective is needed.
    Playing the victim does us no favours. This is not racism, its political satire. Its been happening for hundreds years. Yes we can all be a little miffed, but lets not go over the top. Do you think that anyone really believed that Nomon Tebbit was a leather clad skinhead bully boy because of how he was portrayed in spitting image?

  191. Dal Riata says:

    It has taken the very real chance of Scotland leaving this beleaguered ‘union’ to show the Scottish people what their true value is to the British Establishment.

    The Scots have always been, and still are viewed as ‘others’, which they believe gives them the right to belittle, sneer and mock not only them as a people, but their culture as well. It is racism in all but name. The true face of Norman/Anglo-Saxon might-is-right imperialism.

    The threats and lies and contemptuousness we are seeing, reading and hearing is but the response of those clinging on to the slippery rock that their good ship Last Days of Empire is floundering on.

    Historically, empires have not ended well. The end of the British Empire will be no different.

  192. boglestone says:

    The Express one with the “Jock” begging under the bridge reminded me of Hogarth’s “The Roast Beef of Old England” Some things never change. The guy down at the bottom right.

    http://www.artble.com/imgs/7/f/6/733132/the_roast_beef_of_old_england.jpg

  193. Appleby says:

    When you see these cartoons, like the supposed Scot lying in the street as a beggar you wonder what they draw for their stereotypes for other nations or groups? Nasty stuff. You’d think if they didn’t care about the bigotry it shows then they’d at least care about raising the quality of their work, rather than just lazily phoning it in like this?

  194. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    After reading Morag’s mention of a cartoon Camaroon wearing a “save the union” badge on his chest I suddenly realised that “save the union” abreviates to “Stu” – how good it is that he holds so fine a name so close to his heart and this also explains so much of what he has done and said in the last while. Obviously he has been suborned by the Wings leader and fondly looks ahead to his place in history as Camaroon the Last Uk pm.

  195. hetty says:

    O/T
    Just saw a ‘sponsored’ yougov ad on facebook for a poll on Scottish Indy, claiming that ‘50% say no, while 37% say yes’, might have even been less can’t remember. I looked at the site and it said you have to ‘register’ so I refrained, the ad has now completely disappeared even in ‘recently viewed’.

    I now see they have a yougov poll claiming that ‘58% of people oppose Scotland using the pound’, 59,243 ‘likes’. Don’t know why but this kind of manufactured and biased ‘poll’ is a bit concerning, having said that, who cares what the polls say at yougov headquarters!

  196. FatCandy says:

    Outrageous. No other word for it.

  197. Johnny come lately says:

    I would dearly hate to be a Scot living in England at this moment in time- especially South England. If anything happens the Westminster politicians and their mouthpieces in the press really will have some explaining to do.
    This Union is over though matter what the outcome of the vote is. Britain will never be a united people again.

  198. Lindsay says:

    The only person being mocked here is Salmond. Not “Scotland”.

    And given Salmond’s current situation of seeing the “second oil boom” he promised evaporating, plus his currency “plan B” being sterlingisation which would mean the exodus of the Scottish banking industry, he’s really very mockable.

  199. James says:

    “It is xenophobia. It is also an indictment of what England has become. Snarling, vicious, diminished and petty minded.”

    Not all of us, but you are subject to the gutter mind of the right wing media. Then again anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to them needs their brains examining anyway.

    Personally speaking as an Northerner I support Independence, but Scotland must vote for the Government the Scottish want for their country. However that said, do not expect me to uphold the legacy of this appalling and discredited Government, or defend this antiquated, mouldy and outdated Union, built on military and political oppression and suppression, because I will not! ~V~

  200. Taranaich says:

    The only person being mocked here is Salmond. Not “Scotland”.

    Salmond is the democratically elected leader of Scotland, one of only a handful of politicians with a positive popularity and trust rating in these isles. At every turn, Scottish independence is explicitly linked to Alex Salmond. “Salmond’s dream,” “blow for Salmond,” “Salmond accused.” As they would have it, Salmond IS the independence cause – and so any attack on Salmond is an attack on the independence cause. The point of the independence cause is the recognition of Scotland as a nation, as opposed to a mere region of the UK.

    If commentators don’t want people to think an attack on Salmond is an attack on independence, then they need to stop treating the cause for independence as if it’s all Alex Salmond’s idea.

    And given Salmond’s current situation of seeing the “second oil boom” he promised evaporating

    Again with this? Even without the exploration of the Firth of Clyde? Even with most of the North Sea still to explore? Even given the decades upon decades of lies about North Sea oil volume? Pity’s sake.

    plus his currency “plan B” being sterlingisation which would mean the exodus of the Scottish banking industry

    If they did indeed move south, well, it wouldn’t be the first boneheaded decision they’ve made, wouldn’t it?

  201. Appleby says:

    Lindsay, when you’re living on and talking about planet Earth or actually have some sort of a point let us know.

  202. Colin says:

    Get over yourselves folks!

    http://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders

    The guy that drew the cartoons draws everyone this way. It’s not picking on the Scottish, it’s picking on everyone in politics.

    If you don’t like this type of “racism” then you will have to stop watching TV and turn off the radio, because people poke fun at people.

    Ever taken the piss out of someone’s accent, they you are just as “bad” as these drawings.

    Many of you probably pointed and laughed at Muslims when they didn’t like people drawing their god in pictures. You probably told them to get a grip. This is just the same.

    Get a grip. It’s freaking cartoon!

  203. Kirsty says:

    Lindsay, that’s First Minister Salmond to you. Incidentally, given that he’s the democratically elected leader of Scotland, sneering at him is, indeed, sneering at Scotland and the Scots.

    Your other points re “second oil boom”, “Plan B” etc. are simply risible and aren’t even worth taking the time to dispel, yet again.

  204. Thepnr says:

    @Lindsay
    The only person being mocked here is Salmond. Not “Scotland”.

    Well,maybe you have a point. After all Mocking Alex Salmond is a very big part of the propaganda war against Independence being run by the UK MSM under Westminster direction.

    However, even attacking a single figure does of course upset others who might agree with that figure.

    If that last cartoon depicted the Queen instead of Salmond as “talking through her arse” do you think many English as well as Scots would be offended?

  205. Morag says:

    I would dearly hate to be a Scot living in England at this moment in time- especially South England. If anything happens the Westminster politicians and their mouthpieces in the press really will have some explaining to do.

    I lived in the south east of England for many years. I remember the then convener of SNP London Branch, himself once pretty close to the Labour inner circle, looking at the SNP badge on my car and saying that in the run-up to any referendum things would get very nasty and I’d be well advised to get that sticker off the car.

    Well, that car went to the scrappage scheme nearly five years ago, and the sticker was peeled off its replacement a year ago to put a Yes badge there instead. And I am heartily glad I’m right here, and not having to go through this in Sussex. Being there in 1997 was bad enough.

  206. @:Lindsay

    The only person being mocked here is Salmond.

    Wrong!

    Mock him and you imply a large percentage of the Scottish population are gullible fools for electing him to office with a landside because he provided consistent leadership, offered a plebiscite – the first in over 300 years resisted by all parties and administrations – and are blind and dumb to follow the road to greater democratic powers.

  207. On the subject of nationalism, I’d say our “nationalism” is more like the Canadian form of nationalism. It doesn’t matter where you were born, or where you came from. Rather, if you share our ideals of a modern civil society of liberty and equality, then we want you. Chinese, English, Ghanian, Iranian, Swedish, Korean, Indian, Irish. It doesn’t matter. As Scots it’s not our place to discriminate based upon ethnicity, for many of us wouldn’t exist today if not for immigrants.

    I currently live in a part of the world where ethnic nationalism is a central tenant states here. Trust me when I say this. Scotland and its inhabitants, regardless of where they came from, are nothing like that.

  208. Taranaich says:

    @Colin:

    Get over yourselves folks!

    http://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders

    The guy that drew the cartoons draws everyone this way. It’s not picking on the Scottish, it’s picking on everyone in politics.

    If you don’t like this type of “racism” then you will have to stop watching TV and turn off the radio, because people poke fun at people.

    He is NOT drawing those politicians the way he draws Salmond. All those pictures are grotesque & cartoonish, but they are NOT depicted using cultural stereotypes – the exceptions, of course, being foreign politicians, usually Americans. Poking fun at people is one thing, but poking fun at people using their own cultural distinctions is another.

    Making fun of the First Minister of Scotland by portraying him in a kilt, playing bagpipes & whatnot isn’t offensive because they’re making fun of Alex Salmond, it’s offensive because the very use of kilts & bagpipes in this context is derogatory in itself: it says “look at those stupid Jocks with their strange clothing and bizarre music.” It’s othering, treating cultural elements as a point of ridicule in and of themselves.

    Ever taken the piss out of someone’s accent, they you are just as “bad” as these drawings.

    No, I haven’t, because that’s a pretty awful thing to do.

    Many of you probably pointed and laughed at Muslims when they didn’t like people drawing their god in pictures. You probably told them to get a grip. This is just the same.

    I think it’s pretty baldly presumptuous of you to suggest that we’re all a bunch of closet bigots who laugh at other people’s nationalities, but whine when someone does it to us. Is that what you really think of us?

    Though since you bring it up, no, I didn’t laugh about the Muslim cartoon controversy because it wasn’t a laughing matter: most of the cartoons were making serious satirical statements.

    Get a grip. It’s freaking cartoon!

    Sorry Colin, you don’t get to decide what and what isn’t offensive to people: that’s up to individuals. If you didn’t find these things offensive, then that’s fine, more power to you – but to deny others the right to think there’s something really wrong with using Scottish culture as a tool with which to mock the Scottish people is no better than demanding they be censored.

    I’m not objecting to making fun of Alex Salmond, as if that wasn’t already clear. He’s a politician, he’s fair game for criticism. It’s the fact that they’re making fun of him using his own nationality against him which bothers me.

  209. David says:

    >> “Put in a black person, an Asian person, a woman, a gay……You would be arrested. Rightly.”

    To the people comparing these mocking cartoons to discrimination against black, Asian or gay people – get a grip. I really don’t think an unhappy political situation is comparable to what those groups faced!

  210. Barontorc says:

    Isn’t it the cartoonist’ stock in trade to exaggerate, lampoon and be wicked in their work?

    What strikes me is the orchestration of all these main players and if you’re AS, getting paid so much attention, negative or not, it’s indeed complementary to be the center of all focus.

    Things are clearly upsetting the ‘divine-righters’ and when you think about it, it’s all very much plus-points as we head for the referendum.

  211. Scots Anorak says:

    I find it really annoying that these cartoonists cannot even get the language right. The Scots equivalent of “my” is not “me”, and “your” is not pronounced “ya” in Scotland.

  212. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “To the people comparing these mocking cartoons to discrimination against black, Asian or gay people – get a grip.”

    Perhaps you should get a grip of the concept of an analogy. Similarity != equivalence.

  213. Colin says:

    @Taranaich

    I take it then you don’t watch any form of comedy on TV? Because pretty much the most common form of humour is taking the piss out of someone’s culture.

    The Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy being the most guilty!

    So yeah. It’s a cartoon. Get over yourself!

  214. Gil says:

    It’s too bad that Cameron doesn’t understand that most of the North of England who have the same Westmister challenges as the Scots, are sorry they can’t join us!

  215. Gil says:

    At the end of the day, do we really give a short!

  216. Catherine says:

    It’s interesting how the pro-independence movement is always accused of being anti-English, but never anti-Welsh or anti-Northern Irish (not sure that’s the right word). There xenophobia right there in the accusation…

  217. MB16 says:

    So there you have it. It’s racist to make cartoons criticising Alex Salmond. That’s the message of this article.

    Of course not. What a load of rubbish. It seems the person who wrote this article has just glanced at the cartoons whilst completely ignoring the subject matter. Some people urgently need to get a grip and lose the jingoistic nationalism. This kind of overreaction is laughable.



Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top