A catastrophe for Africa
This clip comes from yesterday’s “Good Morning Scotland”, around 2h 35m in.
It features Professor Paul Collier, who is apparently the Director of the Centre for the Study of African Economies at Oxford University and therefore an obvious choice for the BBC as a go-to guy on the subject of Scottish politics.
We think you’ll find it a stimulating and thought-provoking opinion.
“I’m sorry to be the bearer of an inconvenient truth for Scotland, but it isn’t Scotland’s oil. It’s a lie that’s been repeated so often that a lot of Scots have come to believe it, but it’s a lie.
It’s very straightforward, it’s like this: United Kingdom, like pretty well every other country in the world, decided that if it found natural resources, those natural resources would belong to everybody. And that’s a sensible thing to do, because natural resources are found somewhere but not everywhere, and before you do the geology you don’t know where they are.
Once you’ve found them, the region that happens to be well-endowed with these valuable resources can’t then retrospectively say ‘Right, we’re off, we’re taking them with us’. And if that was established as a precedent by Scotland, it would be catastrophic in Africa.”
Is there anything a Yes vote WON’T cause? We fully expect the BBC weather forecast on the 18th September to promise plagues of boils and rains of frogs if Scots vote for independence, and we’re not even sure that we’re joking about it any more.
Ah, so that’s why oil costs money, because it belongs to everyone.
*Head desk*
The United Kingdom decided that India’s and Africa’s resources belonged to everyone – except of course Indians and Africans.
So what was the 1964 Continental Shelf Act then? You know, the one that allocated ownership of Scottish coastal waters to Scotland.
It just gets curiouser and curiouser
Sharing and pooling resources, that’s what it’s all about!
The sun won’t rise on the 19th, that will be our fault for voting Yes, it’s past the pathetic stage but still they try, One other thing, if the oil was in English waters do you think the chap would have the same attitude if Scotland became independent?
I would say no.
Vote Yes!
There has been trillions of pounds given to Africa where has it all gone, on despots even when band aid was on Ethiopia was exporting Peaches strawberries etc to the West instead of feeding their own people It is time that the West got out of Africa and let the Africans deal with things.
Just how did they gdig up this so called academic ?
– Oh right its the BBC.
Yeah I heard this nutjob on the GMS yesterday – “It would set an unreasonable precedent for control of assets.
Catastrophic for who, the continuing colonial masters ???
What an easy time he was given by Naughtie.
McCrone report not mentioned once ???
Here’s a short interlude while we wait for the next scare, er?
absolute truthful fact to come along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=didO-DHpnAE
Do South Britain still pay the Romans for their share of resources they discovered and help excavate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Roman_Britain
“Once you’ve found them, the region that happens to be well-endowed with these valuable resources can’t then retrospectively say ‘Right, we’re off, we’re taking them with us’. And if that was established as a precedent by Scotland, it would be catastrophic in Africa.”
There we go with that word, region again.
When will these idiots realise that Scotland is not now, and never has been as region of England.
Fuckin morons, the lot of them.
Ah good Rev, renew the Auld Allience ( rains of frogs )you better order a container fur that SCargo WoS self funding
project, never let a gift go to waste.
McCrone Report.
NEXT IDIOT PLEASE…!
Oh dear. I thought Robertson and Hammond had hit rock bottom with cataclysms are Mars Attacks and now we’ve got this lad chiming in. The UKOKs have gone so far in self-parody that I can’t begin to imagine what’s going to come next. Maybe oxygen running out in independent Scotland’s atmosphere? Mutant squirrels eating starving pensioners? Foodbanks being opened in rural areas? Areas where more than 1 child in 3 lives in poverty? Looking forward to what comes next.
Sir Paul Collier, CBE, seems to want to save Africa by subjugating Scotland.
Best of both worlds must be >
You have oil; but you see its not your oil really.
I was sure we were told Scotland only has rubbish oil anyway; the stuff that pollutes & kills baby rabbits + hardly any left and all that.
So why is this a big deal Mr Oxford Brainstorm trooper appart from the BBC excercising its impartiality to the masses, over and over again.
And the guy they had on to ‘so-call’ counter this notion of no Scottish oil ownership was very, very, poor waffling off in all directions.
His research covers the causes and consequences of civil war; the effects of aid and the problems of democracy in low-income and natural-resources rich societies.
Hope he’s not suggesting a ‘civil war in the british isles….or is he?——————————————————————————–
I am tempted to pledge my allegiance to project fear just to get these loonies to shut the feck up.
Is there no depth too low for them?
That’s two or three times recently I’ve heard or read a similar claim. Real bottom of the barrel stuff (though does Adam Tomkins not try the same kind of thing sometimes?). The actual position is as clear as it could be:
http://reportingthereferendum.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-geographical-share-fair-assumption.html
The United Kingdom is a country?
So why did they feel the need to move the maritime border between Scotland and England?
“Professor Paul Collier, who is apparently the Director of the Centre for the Study of African Economies at Oxford University”
I’m glad you used the word ‘apparently’ in the description. This guy is an idiot. How did he ever get appointed as a ‘Professor’ anywhere? He talks about regions instead of countries just to try and confuse the issue. But to no avail.
Before 2011 Sudan was a country with a ‘region’, South Sudan, under which most of the oil was located. After a Referendum and a 99% YES vote South Sudan became Independent and took all the oil with it. You would have thought a ‘Professor’ and “Director of the Study of African Economies at Oxford University” would know THAT?
Vote NO Scotland and stop war in Africa. The more lunatics bettertogetherBBC wheel out the better.
Just because these words are uttered by some Professor does not make them accurate. Boy am I fed up to the back teeth with most of the professions recently. Whether it comes from the Vet, the Doctor, the Dentist, the Historian and now some guy who seems to be under the impression we are all daft in Scotland. If oil belongs to everyone, why is the United Kingdom, aka Westminster taxing it to oblivion, obviously they must be a special case.
Professor Paul Collier, you got your CBE what are you after now, your Knighthood.
WE’RE NO A REGION
WE’RE A C O U N T R Y.
Frank
International law?
A mere bagatelle to this mob of gangsters and their deluded mouthpieces.
Except, come the day and they find their imperialist playbook is out of date and the international community won’t let them ravish, despoil, and plunder the Golliwogs, Nig Nogs, and sundry natives anymore (unless it’s in Raghead Land and the Blessed Blair has given you his backing).
As to this eijit, probably got SOAS connections – a hotbed for British military intel and other spooks who carry the White Man’s Burden even unto the Celtic abos.
Must check him out.
This referendum debate has been quite an eye-opener.
Delusion, pettiness, dogma, stupidity and denial among the so-called elites and intelligentsia of British society is now on full public display. The unionist mindset revealed in all it’s glory.
The constitutional stone has been lifted and the wee beasties are squirming about in the sunlight. No where to hide. It’s a bit creepy, don’t you think?t
Just read the bottom of the piece,no it will be the loss of the first born male child, nothing as trivial as a plague of boils or frogs, they think we have them already.
Wow… what a dunderheid.
It blew his own argument out of the north sea, when he used the word ‘region’.
I’m sure Scotland would be an independent country after independence, not a region… unless someone can correct me on that one?
Stu, Just keep debunking the BBC’s and others’ tame experts. It makes for excellent articles and good comments on Twitter.
Oh! Goody! So Scots will be able to claim a retrospective share in the lead, tin, copper, coal and all the other mineral resources mined in England since the year dot.
Even just a share in the English, Welsh and Northern Irish natural resources since 1st May 1707 should be a nice little earner for an independent Scotland.
O/T (Sorry Rev Stu for cutting in but I’ve put the latest, “Better Together Lies 3”, video up on YouTube. The link is : –
youtu.be/tlmfCOa3hrw
It is from an Abertay Uni debate. It is Stuart Hosie MP vs Lord Robertson. Stuart really gubs his Lordship and reverses a massive starting NO vote into a massive YES vote at the end.
It is becoming more and more obvious that these so called educated Oxbridge
types are nothing more than an elitist old boys network with no intellectual merit whatsoever.
The sooner we can get rid of these parasites the better for Scotland.
Although, England floats on frack oil and gas but there’s clearly a hold on it right now so maybe they’re waiting for Scotland to piss orf so that they don’t have to share mega trillions with evil and cruel Yes voters. TeamGB got 80% NOT Scots oil, clearly do not want Scotland to get what’s left but they sure as hell wont want to share UKOK fracking trillions.
A bit like the way poor old Moyes got the bullet before he could get Man U into the top 4 and his £9.5 million pay off, instead of only £4.5 million he got last week kind of thing.
Aha… beat me to it Ronnie 🙂
The assests owned by the Czech Republic appear to be owned by the Czech Republic, I see no mention of them having to share them with Slovakia,
and in the case of Scotland we have,
An economic zone (EEZ) is a seazone prescribed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea over which a state has special rights over the exploration and use of marine resources, including energy production from water and wind.[1] It stretches from the baseline out to 200 nautical miles from its coast. In colloquial usage, the term may include the continental shelf. The term does not include either the territorial sea or the continental shelf beyond the 200 n.m. limit. The difference between the territorial sea and the exclusive economic zone is that the first confers full sovereignty over the waters, whereas the second is merely a “sovereign right” which refers to the coastal state’s rights below the surface of the sea. The surface waters, as can be seen in the map, are international waters.
And what does the good professor have to say about the
the trillions of cubic metres of shale oil under England.
How much is Scotland’s share?
haven’t really thought that through have you professor?
Once this petition’s done we can have another one asking the BBC to stop deciding which academics to consult on referendum issues by sticking a pin in a big list.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
Just when you thought nobody could be quite so stupid, they actually could.
Unless this was a joke pulled off with the help of some very clever editing.
In which case, LOL!
Makes me wonder why Tony Blair and Donald Dewer went to all the trouble of redrawing the maritme boundry to move 6000sq miles of sea from Scotland’s territory to England’s, if his ‘proposition’ is correct.
I just hope an independent Scotland doesn’t get a delegation from the Southern Atlantic countries asking for their wind back.
Looks like we will have to dust down our gas drilling rigs so that we can send them to England
And claim our share of all that shale gas.
The people who live and work in Scotland can achieve what WALLACE,BRUCE and all the freedom fighters for SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE failed to do over the last 800 years ie.a permanent independent SCOTLAND.All we have to do is put a cross in the YES box on the18th of September.
Dearie me, just how many nutty professors has this independence debate revealed over the last 2 years? they are literally everywhere, it would probably be a worthwhile exercise compiling a list along with their bizarre statements, just a thought…
The BBC produce – A positive case regarding a YES vote (positive for rUK)
They’ll no longer need to subsidise the delivery to 94 Scottish Islands!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26925926
@john king, Prof Collier would say that Scotland as a nation state and not a UK region will be given by rUK 8% of North Sea/Atlantic oil and gas and possibly 8% of English frack revenues but at what point does England decide earnings from frack oil production began?
If its after 18th Sept 2014, there is nothing for Scotland but England still keeps taking 92% Scots oil revenue which is another of the Prof’s “inconvenient truths.”
I have never heard such idiotic nonsense in my life.
It is unbelievable that this was spoken far less broadcast.
American Shale gas is not theirs?
Saudi Arabia is in big trouble(do they have to pay it back?)
Norway needs to start sending cheques out from that Oil fund.
Just when Australia was starting to see the benefit of their gas fields.
Ukraine is energy supple is now secure as Russia needs to send through that gas.
Anyone can fish off Scotland so the EU is a waste of time.
What’s our cut of those South African diamonds?
Do we need to send our fresh water to Africa?
One thing that the article has highlighted. I didn’t realise the UK had been so generous over the years. I need to apologise as I has thought that the profits from the taxation had been going to Westminster and they had been spending(wasting)it on balancing their economy.
Was he drunk or just bribed?
I’m getting very worried because if they think we are stupid enough to accept crap like this article then the next arguement is to take it by force for our own good.
What an ultra maroon. What happened when the Soviet Union broke up? He talks as if there is no precedent. This is a well trodden path. What African states, many little more than colonial lines on a map, do is up to themselves and anybody suggesting that is not up themselves needs their pith hat removed and cricket bat applied to their head.
Incidentally, is he proposing that the rUK share fracked gas with an independent Scotland as a resource discovered before part ways? I seriously doubt it. Another “what is ours is ours and what is yours is ours” balloon.
You would think that an Englishman quoting English precedent would have some idea of that about which he spoke. You might even think an academic with an academic reputation to preserve would be chary of pontificating in an area in which he lacks expertise. However a gong, let alone a K, has to be earned so there is no problem for him to conflate the position of two countries in a political union with regions/tribal areas/”nations” in a colonial construct created by force of arms by foreigners and stating that happenings in the one create precedent in the other.
Two can play at that game so I claim that the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is precedent for the decline and fall of the British Empire and so the split of Rome into West and East is precedent for the split of Britain into North and South. Or, closer in time, that the denial of the pound to the American colonists is precedent for the abjuration of Westminster by the Scots on 18 September.
‘Once you’ve found them, the region that happens to be well-endowed with these valuable resources can’t then retrospectively say ‘Right, we’re off, we’re taking them with us’.
Er, Is that not what Westminster/ south east region have done with oil revenues for the last 30+ years anyway?
Pretty sure Norway, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are clear about who owns their oil.
W*nker.
What is incredible, come to think of it, is not so much that there are people out there who hold on to these hair brained notions but that the BBC will give every single one the oxygen of publicity.
However, in this case, the suggestion that the Scotland is not a country and that after independence the rUK could just waltz in and take pretty much whatever they like is probably more offensive than scare story. In that respect it is a red rag to a bull to Scottish psyche and probably does deserve maximum publicity….I suppose there is an outside possibility that he supports a Yes vote and is trying to be helpful 🙂
Lord above, is there to be no end to stupidity uttered by the NO promulgators. Is it now perfectly permissible to open ones mouth and let the belly rumble in pretence of knowledge? To expound any nonsense and back it up with vacuous doom laden inaccuracy?
Has the power of thought been removed from the MSM?
I believe it was George Bernard Shaw who said “some men would rather die than think”
In the case of many of the journalists and interviewers this would appear to be true.
Article 1, paragraph 2 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
“2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.”
Note the ICCPR has treaty status and the UK is a signatory.
@Luigi
“This referendum debate has been quite an eye-opener”
It has indeed.
Where I thought there was inequality and ambivalence, I find there is arrogance and contempt.
And then there is Westminster…
It comes as no surprise that the BBC in Scotland are giving Prof Collier a platform. I`m sure, as with many others here, my faith of the BBC in Scotland is so far below the bottom of the barrel as to be in the lower mantle of the Earth`s crust.
Oh, how I hope this country votes Yes – for it`s dignity and sanity.
Norman Collier was a popular comedian, famous for his ‘broken microphone’ routine.
Paul Collier is also a comedian, but not funny in the slightest.
Minerals within a sovereign state & its domninion’s boundaries belong to the state.
The state, invariably incapable of doing anything efficient, instead issues licenses to companies with an expertise in extracting said minerals.
The companies incur huge costs to extract these minerals but to compensate, is allowed by the state to sell the minerals on the open market.
Meanwhile, the state takes a cut for itself through taxes, levies, tariffs, fees etc. All things being equal then, everyone is usually happy with this arrangement.
Professor Paul Collier however claims that the oil doesn’t belong to the state at all; it actually belong’s to everybody. Presumably that means me, you & everyone else including an obscure Taliban tribal chief living in a cave.
Precisely how we might all benefit individually from this Nirvana state of infinite sharing isn’t explained.
However, I think I know the reason why.
“Cuckoo-Cuckoo-Cuckoo!”
It’s crackpot arguments like Professor Collier’s that were responsible for Christian Biafra losing a million of its people through starvation and butchery because they had the temerity and gall to seek independence from bloodthirsty islamic warmongering Nigeria.
The Biafrans wanted independence to put their natural resources to the benefit of their own people. It was a shameful period in the world’s history how that county was treated by the West.
Britain of course did nothing to help the Biafrans except tell jokes.
It belongs to everyone you say!? I’m off to drill a Well, cha-ching! $$$$$$
Paul Collier is proposing violation of UN resolution 1803:
Inter alia:
“Violation of the rights of peoples and nations to sovereignty over their natural wealth and resources is contrary to the spirit and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and hinders the development of international co-operation and the maintenance of peace.”
http://legal.un.org/avl/ha/ga_1803/ga_1803.html
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/1803%28XVII%29
The thing is even hardline unionist now accept the international maritime boundary. The BBC are 3 years behind with this scare story and the source is politically illiterate.
They do Alice in Wonderland bus tours in Oxford. Apparently as the coach swings by the University ‘Professor’ Collier pops out of a box to do his Mad Hatter impersonation. Unfortunately BBC Scotland thought he was an academic.
I must have missed that Kellogg’s promotion of “collect 10 cereal packet tops and become a professor”.
Scotland voting yes is gonna bring on the 2nd coming resulting in cosmic catastrophe. Swirling cyclones, tsunami’s, & hail the size of Andy Murray’s balls
Nobody has mentioned the Welsh Inverness base expert on oil who said that Scotland would be entitled to a population based share of it but would have to pay all the decommissioning costs and about 80% of the reserves had been removed.
That was on the Radio 4 morning version, before the Radio Scotland nonsense.
I thought it was a spoof.
So what’s his solution then? Does the rUK keep all of Scotland’s natural resources, or do we share all resources in the UK?
If the latter, great. Can’t wait to get some of that lovely shale gas from the Tory heartlands in the South of England, with absolutely none of the drawbacks for Scotland. Whoops, did we pollute your drinking water & shake your house to bits? Sorry about that…
The BBC and their rent a scare mouthpieces are getting to the ridiculous stage. How long are they going to get away with this for?
Any chance of doing a funny on all these Ruskie squadrons visiting Scotland every day. This one is getting beyond a joke noo!
You couldn’t make it up.
“Sir” Paul (Order of the Klingon Empire) is either having a laugh or he is ermine-seeking (or both).
Wonderful that he describes Biafra as a ‘region’, in Nigeria.
I worked for 5 years in Nigeria.
Nigeria, as a country, is an artificial construct of Empire.
To refer to Biafra as a ‘region’ in this context really shows the Imperial mindset.
Oil or no oil in the South Eastern part of Nigeria, the land of the Ibo people is in many ways even more a different ‘country’ from the other Hausa and Yoruba parts of Nigeria than Scotland is from England.
The unfortunate peoples in these land will take centuries to recover from the good work of the British Empire.
The pathetic rubbish from Sir Paul is here: http://archive.today/ojIXJ#selection-1965.14-1965.92
BTW: Is Oxford University in the CBI?
I listened to this guy when first broadcast on Radio 4(the dog needed a wee, hence me being up and about so early).
I strongly suspect that a group has been formed at Radio 4 to research anti Independence stories for broadcast. You could call it a research group for constitutional change, or you could call it a group for the deliberate creation and dissemination of propaganda at the expense of Scottish Independence.
Radio 4 is aimed at a London Metropolitan audience and I would guess that the BBC recognise a desire for Scottish Independence stories to be broadcast to this audience. It will be expected that output of this sort is part of the Radio 4 experience.
It’s all complete bollocks but it will tick a few boxes and the Mandarins at the Home Office/Better Together/Tory HQ (it’s all the same thing really) or MI5 will be chuffed that something is being churned out. The intention is probably to keep the Metropolitan audience happy and safe in the knowledge that the BBC is on side and taking an interest in their concerns (or what the BBC/Home Office/Better Together/Tory HQ perceives to be their concerns).
On the plus side, I’m looking forward to an Xmas stocking filler for 2015 when the book “The Bonkers Scare Stories of the Scottish Referendum Campaign (or how to lose a country)” is published. It’ll be like a “Not the Nine O’clock News” or “Monty Python Christmas Bumper edition.”
So this guy is an expert on Africa. If his explanation is correct then why don’t the ex-colonial powers still have control of the oil and other natural resources of Africa?
We know economically this is still sometimes the case, but at least nominally the resources belong to the independent country not the former colonial master.
What this episode of course simply reinforces is the notion, now surely firmly implanted in the minds of hundreds of thousands of Scots, that the BBC must never again be allowed to speak for Scotland or the Scottish people.
There is no way back for this corrupt and moribund institution.
Just got my UKIP leaflet thru the door! Not wots that freepost address again……
Actually complained to the BBC, for their continued membership of CBIS. First time!
I heard this plonker on GMS. Nearly cut myself shaving on my electric razor. And as for Naughtie’s treatment of him. Jeezo.
At least come independence, we can get rid of anachronisms like the aristocracy, Houses of Unelected Ones, and the BBC. Tell me please we’re not going to invent our own state-owned, licence fee-subsidised broadcaster. Clean slate right?
Giving Goose says:
‘I strongly suspect that a group has been formed at Radio 4 to research anti Independence stories for broadcast’, or
they’re just using CBI briefings?
The ‘No’ Campaign Has Sunk Further Than the Jeremy Kyle Show
O/T Beginning to think that the planned armed forces day in stirling is going to be a war-games rehersal for September 19. Don’t think it’ll be love bombs they’ll be dropping though.
Professor of being stupid bastard perhaps.
The arrogance and audacity of his imperialist mindset is amazing to behold. No wonder Africa gets so badly treated by these parasites.
‘Your resources belongs to everyone you know, well by everyone we mean the British ruling elite in London of course’
Off topic I know, but part of the last verse of “Freedom Come All Ye” written by Hamish Henderson in 1960 could have been written this year specifically for the times we are in;
“Sae come aa ye at hame wi freedom
Never heed whit the houdies croak for doom
In yer hoose aa the bairns o Adam
Will find breid, barley bree an paintit room.”
Or in English for those of us who aren’t so familiar with the Scots tongue;
“So come all you at home with freedom
Never heed what the hooded crows croak for doom
In our house all the children of Adam
Will find bread, whisky and painted room.
Says it all really.
Does this also mean they get to keep all that other stuff we dig up like gold, silver, coal, iron, tin, copper, asbestos….do they also get 90% of Edinburgh castle?
Oh dear someone else who patronisingly thinks our heads button up the back. I would have thought that South Sudan’s secession from the North largely over oil would have let the cat out of the bag for Africans more proximately than far off Scotland. Where’s Idi Amin when you need him?
Not to mention the low level insurgency in the Nile Delta region of Nigeria.
Both these and Scotland are independent or want to be not because of the simple presence of the oil but the strong perception backed up with facts in the Information Age that they are not getting a fair share of the riches the oil they are sitting on bring.
London has neglected Scotland and taken if for granted and was secretive about the money from oil and Scotland’s actual contribution vs what we got back. Sudan kept the South dirt poor while it drank their oil and Nigeria did the same in the Delta.
Oil is not he operative factor, neglect, exploitation and inequality are. The oil just makes them starker. Cornwall and the North of England are waking up to the same issues without oil. If they think it’s all about the oil they have made a mistake that will continue to bite them.
This interview was on the back of the loony piece in the FT where he likened Scotland with oil to Nigeria in the 1960s. He states that an independent Scotland that tries to claim North Sea oil would be a ‘fatal decision’ that could cost lives around the world.
So, does Britain still actually own the oil in Persia then?
Some people really need to get out more often.
worked well for the Native americans, aborigonies, most of Africa which of course he’s expert on.
of course it’s the governments rain forest, f the natives.
Interesting timing just after Chomsky states his (quite reserved) opinion.
Stupidity appears to be the main requirement of the bbc’s ‘experts’
I wonder if this prof got his qualifications at the same place of learning as IDS.
Faolie, Sorry but we do need a state broadcaster to undo the damage of the last x years. A state broadcaster that is impartial and does not attack the people of Scotland with every second broadcast. We can’t leave it to the private sector because then you’ll have the views of the few billionaires who own the private media.
Besides the factually challenged Prof Collier, James Naughtie had managed to recruit an equally clueless spokesperson from the Fraser of Allander Institute, whose name I have mercifully forgotten, to present the opposite case. Balance you see. His riposte seemed to rest on the fact we had always shared our oil with the rUK. Even Prof Collier thought that was fatuous. Abyssmal journalism.
On the 19th of september post that yes vote, I shall raise my glass to all these numpties who have made even the staunchest no voter despair!
We won’t even remember their names… ; )
The “U”K will have as much right to Scotland’s seabed as we will to theirs – i.e. zero.
However, it raises the issue of what Scotland will do with its share of overseas territorial assets like Gibraltar and the Malvinas. They should be worth a bob or two to the right buyer.
Further to my previous;
I think it’s about time we started a score card for these Unionist apologists pretending to be journalists. It’s all very well being a Politician and having a Unionist view, but a Scottish journalist who deliberately misleads or distorts is another thing entirely. Naughtie, Captain T Krypton at the Record, et al should be monitored for their output, then an individual scorecard kept of their propaganda output. Post 18th September the score can be collated, given a total and these so called journalists reminded every day of their actions.
Oh, what a wheeze, the oil doesn’t belong to Scotland, or indeed anybody in the event of independence, as the ‘UK’ as constituted at the time of discovery would no longer exist. So who would it belong to? Venezuela? Germany? Norway?
Seriously, I’ve never heard such unadulterated utter shite in all my days. I am seriously thinking about writing to this clown, and reminding him of how international law works in relation to continental shelf exploitation – because he clearly has no freaking idea.
As for the blatantly biased (and active campaigners for a NO vote) the BBC, well this is just more anti independence flim flam from a once respected broadcaster.
I think that there’s a good case for renaming GMS to SMS; Shite Morning Scotland.
Oil be damned!
Don’t know how Hugo Chavez dun it – but he dun it.
Ironic thought for the day? If the UK had set up an £600billion “British” oil fund, if Scotland chose independence, then they might have had a legitimate claim to owning a hefty share of it, but they didn’t. They took it all and squandered it, but we are talking “what if”… The Oil in the ground is a natural resource yet to be harvested, and if it’s in Scotland’s territory, it is Scotland’s resource.
That bloke is a nutter.
Hmmm… why hasnt region UK shared it resources with the rest of Europe?
When you think of all the scare stories, the manipulations, the outright lies, the denial of basic democracy,all the propaganda spewed by the BBC,and the MSM on a daily basis.
Who in their right minds would want to stay with these kind of people?, are some of us really that mad!
@luigi 1:13
loved the rock image 🙂
Should an “Professor” be visiting the site could remind me of the image painted of neutral academics seeking to uncover the truth.
I think you and the academic world have been let down badly today.
Do we have any moles inside Pacific Quay yet? It would be nice to know how much Prof Collier was paid for that drivel. Boffins for hire…
As the guy said his area of expertise is in Africa.
Keep your expertise there then pal Not in an area where you dont have any expertise. and could someone please remind him that one by one those african countries that were part of the empire kicked off the raj and their so called experts !They had enough of sharing their resources 99% to the empire and 1% to the native owners.less commission ,tax & admin charges.
what planet and year does this crank live?
Miliband greeted by hecklers in Motherwell according to James Cook. Shame.
Get used to it. Well, we should be by now. B.B.C, the standard bearer for the No campaign, will continue in this vein up until referendum day, and probably beyond. In fact, until it’s replaced by the S.B.S, which I can only hope won’t be employing the same liars.
Thats the third time in two days ive heard this “it might not be scotlands oil”. its their latest line.
@Ian B
Did you really mean “boffins” or did you misspell “buffoons”? ;-D
He seems to miss the point – we’re NOT A REGION.
By that logic, and it sounds like convenient logic to me, our water, which of course is about 90% of the UK’s fresh water, will, after independence, belong, in this hippy manner, to everyone Man. Only kidding.
What an idiot. We aren’t GOING anywhere.
Prof. Paul Collier & Naughty.
Prof. Collier: Complete and utter self seeking EGIT, maybe educated & qualified but still an EGIT maybe it would be more appropriate if he were CERTIFIED?
Naughty: waste of space.
I see Osborne is going to spend money he doesn’t have on a scientific ice breaker they don’t need to explore the Antarctic they don’t own.
Interestingly they don’t know where it will be built……….
Never mind George we will have it to look after Scotland’s Antarctic assets
Seasick Dave
GMS is known in our household as Good Moaning Scotland.
Hang on … did nobody think to point out that Africa isn’t a country and that mineral wealth belongs to each individual sovereign country in Africa where it is found.
I’m beginning to think that this isn’t dissemination of propaganda but in deepest Englandshire they DO believe that everything belongs to them
You’re being extremely kind in not transcribing the last few seconds of his speech where he says “quite rightly those resource secessions were stopped” immediately after acknowledging that that was by military intervention. In other words what he’s saying is that Scotland can’t have independence because it would somehow encourage events that have already happened in the past.
HUH????
Africa my arse
The Chinese are rapidly exploiting that!!
What a total plonker 😀
McTavish reveals a rather unpleasant approach – ‘F***** morons, the lot of them’. Who can he mean? All the English? All Unionists?
It’s interesting that the point Professor Collier raises is about international law, and the responses he receives here seem a little lacking in legal content.
Still, why bother with argument when abuse seems so popular here?
Just been listening to todays “Brian Taylors Big Debate” on iplayer so apologies if this has been mentioned.
One of the guests is the “Great British Bake Off” no voter,can’t remember his name.He’s stated that if Scotland votes yes then Shetland will stay with the UK(is he Graham Slater from the Scotsman?).So that’s their plan!Any part of Scotland that votes no,they’ll do a Russia in Ukraine on us,whit a balloon.
Mind you,Larkhall would be no loss.
I’m not worried, I have Slim Whitman and the lovely Rose Maree on standby for the next cat-as-trophy.
Well if Professor Plum calls Scotland a region then i have every right to call England a region.
The following are quotes from the book by Harlod Smith, a British civil servant and diplomat:
“When I suggest that the British Government meddled with the democratic elections in Nigeria, I write as an authority. I was chosen by his Excellency the Governor General, Sir James Robertson, to spearhead a covert operation to interfere with the elections.”
“What I now reveal in the following chapters is that the British Government interfered with the elections so as to achieve Northern domination of Nigeria.”
“I was one of the British officers serving on the headquarters staff in Lagos, chosen by the Governor General, Sir James Robertson, to mastermind the covert action to rig Nigeria’s elections. This secret operation hatched in Whitehall was of course a gross betrayal of trust by Prime Ministers Sir Anthony Eden and Mr Harold Macmillan. The orders which arrived on my desk from the Governor General before the elections for the Western Regional Government in 1956 were quite illegal and in direct contravention of Nigerian and British law. As a consequence of these illegal orders, I was to lose my career and my health. These orders were not only illegal but also immoral, and I refused to carry them out. I also refused many inducements. The authorities wanted me to promise never to reveal how the British Government rigged the results of Nigeria’s General Elections.”
“Cheating a brand new nation out of its birthright was evidently routine stuff if you were Sir James.”
The antecedents to the partition of Sudan were very different to that of the current situation in Scotland viz a vie the issue of independence.
Yet interestingly, and of course quite co-incidently, Sudan was recognised as having more oil than Saudi Arabia and Iran together.
Those interested in researching what actually happened might want to start here:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/tactical-use-of-genocide-in-sudan-and-the-five-lakes-region/1994
and here:
https://pinkindustry.wordpress.com/westminster-foundation-for-democracy/
Professors eh! Politicians with bald heads, wispy hair and opinions (not facts) that buy them MSM time.
My chemistry professor asked if I knew the formula for Sodium Hydride. I looked at her and said NaH.
Mr Podmore
And on what chapter of international law do you back up Colliers claims?
Oxford is the “brains” behind the no campaign,no wonder they’re losing.
Apart from that,your trolling is pathetic.
A supporter writes, “Before 2011 Sudan was a country with a ‘region’, South Sudan, under which most of the oil was located. After a Referendum and a 99% YES vote South Sudan became Independent and took all the oil with it. You would have thought a ‘Professor’ and “Director of the Study of African Economies at Oxford University” would know THAT?” Yes, I’m sure he does. It illustrates his point quite well, that a secession would rob the previously united country of its resource wealth.
goldenayr, trolling is visiting a site with the intention of spoiling it. My intention is to argue with you and to convince you that Scotland is better off as part of an independent united Britain than as the EU’s 29th dependency.
GoldenAyr….Divide and rule is the brit forte look at Ireland, i dare them to try it in Scotland and see what response they get. As for brit lickspittles like Graham Slater, they should hang their heads in shame. Pitiful folk that they are.
What he describes is the principle of res communis, which is the underpinning of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
It does not apply to exclusive economic zones, which is where the oil fields are to be found.
He is an idiot.
Will Podmore : Confusing abuse with ridicule ? ( curious No side attribute).
It’s interesting that the point Professor Collier raises.
And just what is that you suppose ?
Perhaps you could clarify what rational point Collier tries to raise, other than postulated nonsense ?
All ears. Just because he is some kind of a Prof, does not preclude him from sputing utter garbage as is evidenced.
@ Wil Podmore.
“…that a secession would rob the previously united country of its resource wealth”.
How can they rob the resource if it rightfully belongs to them by international law?
@Will Podmore
My intention is to argue with you and to convince you that Scotland is better off as part of an independent united Britain
Why bother? You’ve no chance. Just a chancer and liar whose time has gone.
Will Podmore
Eh?
I can get the point if you are talking about a small region breaking away from an existing nation after oil is discovered. eg Aberdeenshire.
There really is no comparison with a historical nation such as Scotland regaining its independence.
It just reflects an attitude that Scotland is a mere region, and not a country in its own right.
In any case, the remaining UK won’t really be missing the small and volatile curse that Scottish oil and gas apparently is..
Don’t feed the troll. Laugh at him instead. 🙁 🙂 🙂
Following thus barmy logic …
What is iScotland’s share of England’s fracking gas reserves worth?
50% ?
It was a Union of equals after all.
They once claimed the sun never set on the British Empire. Now they have restructured astronomical motions and the calendar so every day is 1st April!
You have to give credit where credit is due …. Some of the jokes are real crackers.
The colonial mindset is all those chancers have left, its a mental illness in other words, i.e. whats yours is mine.
The world has moved on but the crusty dusty brit types haven’t.
vote yes 2014 To be rid of this anachronism that treats Scotland with such contempt whilst stealing our resources.
“What is iScotland’s share of England’s fracking gas reserves worth?” 8% for Scotland and 92% for England. 92% of everything found in that there GB soil belongs to England and 12 miles of seabed goes to the queen too says the Prof. That 12% alone is going to be very tasty.
Jim sillars speech @ the mound today
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=757772894255700&set=vb.465022403530752&type=2&theater
12 miles of all seabed from GB coast is the queens I mean!
I haven’t read all the comments, so maybe someone has answered my question.
Where are we taking the oil fields to?
@Will Podmore 4:36
The Sudan secession and resource re-allocation was a bit more involved than that. I was in Sudan during the finalisation of the deal (not involved in it though thank goodness). The North still had some oil-in-the-ground capacity (about 10% I seem to recall) but they had all the refinery and pipeline infrastructure, so there was a back-scratching arrangement as part of the deal.
Where it started to get a bit tetchy between the sides was the “ownership” of a smallish area known as Abyei.
The South also started to plan their own pipeline into Kenya so that they could have the oil refined their rather than, potentially, be held hostage by the north.
The summary agreement can be seen here: http://www.sudanoslo.no/the-nine-agreements-between-s-ii.html and item three is an interesting one on the implementation of “soft borders”. Not sure I’d be happy with that here 🙁
@ Will Podmore “It’s interesting that the point Professor Collier raises is about international law, and the responses he receives here seem a little lacking in legal content”
So where’s the law Will and can we see it and also does the law say that independent Scotland takes 8% of all England’s natural resources after 18th Sept?
The Prof was very selective in his word choice, wonder why?
arrgh 3rd para “their” should be “there” [groan]
@ Will Podmore
You are perfectly entitled to your view,and I, for one, admire your decision to come to this site to argue for it. Clearly you are going to be in a minority here, and that cannot surprise you. Kudos for that, at least.
The problem is that you do not, at least in the posts above, live up to the demand you make of others
I listened to the clip and I did not hear much reference to international law, backing up the professor’s assertions. That may be because of the format: I am frequently frustrated by the utter lack of factual content in such interviews and by the short time given to exploration of the issues
So in line with your values can you spell out exactly what international law applies here? My understanding is that there is clear law and precedent which establishes where the rights to oil on the continental shelf are vested. Indeed that is clear from the fact that the UK grants licenses to exploit those resources: if it is not the case then the UK has no conceivable right to do that. But if that is true then exactly the same rules apply to Scotland if it becomes an independent sovereign state.
Either Prof Collier is right and the UK should pay back the revenue it has gained from granting those licenses (I wonder who to/): or he is wrong, and it is indeed Scotland’s oil should Scotland choose independence
Which is it? And why?
@Juteman
Most oil lands first in Scotland but here’s an interesting map about future prospects describing areas with “significant activity”. Looks good to me.
https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/web_files/quad_maps/quadmaps.html
Will Podmore – the problem is that everything the NO camp hurls at the independence campaign and its supporters is so negative and frequently downright offensive. So, please, if your intention is to argue with us that ‘Scotland is better off in an independent united Britain .. ‘ then go ahead and make your POSITIVE argument. But, you’ll be about the only one on the NO side who even tries, so it better be very, very good and backed up by facts not rubbish and veiled threats. So far, your support of the Professor from Oxford’s line isn’t a good start so perhaps you could begin with your views on that. Over to you.
“Where are we taking the oil fields to?”
I think I heard that Iain Gray has costed the hire of a large skip to transport them to a secret location.
Cunningly he did his costing using one skip and then included the cost of another in order to cut the transportation time by 100% (*).
His project is to make a fool of John Swinney as Iain can then legitimately ask “where will the money come for an oil fund?”
* To 89,700,648 years (Scottish bank holidays assumed as down time)
You know their losing when they mention “international law”. The whole point of being independent is that the only law that applies to Scotland will be those agreed to by Scotland. International Law only applies by agreement of the parties involved. Why would we accept laws that allow the rUK to lay claims to natural resources within our territory?
Will Podmore ?
Thats some argument; now you put it like that we can see clearly the error of our ways.
(UK is best for vested interests only; just not progressive forward thinking Scots)
On the secession of South Sudan from Sudan, links to copies of the series of full agreements is:
http://sudanwatch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/full-text-nine-agreements-between-sudan.html
You need to scroll down the page and access each one as a separate pdf.
The one on oil is about 20 pages and quite an interesting read, if you need the details.
Last in a long list of ridiculous comments. Even the man saying this doesn’t believe it. I’d pick it apart but there’s just no point, even the daftest BT member knows this is tripe.
OT Flipper still on extended leave? Anyone heard what he’s up to?
DEdWhen are the bbc going to realalize that the Scottish people are not fools we know what you are up to trying every dirty trick to try and convince us to vote no well your tactics are not working the yes votes are going up and up and you are so dogmatic that you keep churning out the same old lies like it is said in the song when will they ever learn when will they ever learn? The truth will out and you are being found out big time there is an old saying the bbc should heed a liar will not be believed even when he tells the truth vote yes
I listened to this Oxford professor yesterday on Radio Scotland, not content with stealing 6000 square miles of Scottish sea, they now want the oil as well.
Speaking of BBC radio Scotland naughty James Naughtie, gave Ed (My hero was Margaret Thatcher) Miliband, a very easy time this morning on Radio Scotland, naughty Naughtie,let Miliband off the hook when Miliband sidestepped a question on WMD’s in Scotland.
It was a completely different story however when Marco Biagi, came under naughty Naughtie’s crosshair, though to Mr Biagi’s credit he handled the probing questions eloquently.
This what Scots will receive, if they vote no, as Ed Miliband and SLAB have vowed to continue punishing the sick and the poor, by increasing the austerity cuts, that the Tories have introduced.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/con-dems-admit-1300-people-told-3453161
Finally Ed Miliband saying we’re only one Christmas away from a Labour government, well Mr Miliband, we in Scotland are only a summer away from independence. I’ll be very surprised if Labour get into power in 2016.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/uk-a-year-away-labour-3454908
@galamcennalath
He was supposed to be at Margo’s commemoration ceremony today. I listened on radio so didn’t see if he was.
BReaking; CBI ‘reversing’ decision to back BT.
Too late chaps!
Nick Eardley @nickeardley · 21s
CBI to reverse position as a registered campaigner opposed to Scottish independence. More @bbcnews soon
https://twitter.com/nickeardley/status/459733609004691457
News alert! CBI to reverse decision on NO support!
@Jim T
Impressed with your Sudan experiences. You’ll have to come to Jolly’s in the ferry on the 9th May to tell me more.
link Ian…
Apologies if this has been posted before, but you just have to love the webpage that has appeared today on the BBC website titled:
How would Scottish independence change Westminster?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27129813
I am impressed that it is Westminster-related concerns that get their attention (sorry rest of rUK).
I have archived it at: http://archive.today/jgJIt just in case it is subject to any later changes.
Have a laugh at the vermin-in-ermine bit that it saves to last, with the familiar wise words of Jim “Mondeo Man” Wallace on how to desperately wangle everlasting ermine (even though he may have morphed into a “foreigner” post-Indyref).
(Warning: May contain traces of CBI membership)
Hmm. Heard him briefly on GMS, but switched off after 60 sec when obvious he was an ignorant stooge hired to spout p+sh. Typical BBC independent expert.
Assumed he’d be at least a professor of international relations or public international law. But African economics…
Bottom of barrel well scraped.
BBC Drivetime reporting CBI to reverse position on referendum!
Given that we know it’s a fact that there’s very little oil left in the North Sea (Alistair Darling said so) it’s really hardly worth squabbling about.
Still, as that piddling amount is in Scottish waters we may as well have the benefit of the couple of gallons of fuel we’ll get from it.
@G.Campbell
Your link aint working now. I’m dying to read this.
Right I’m back,cheers to all those who derided podmore far more eloquently than I.
If the CBI are to reverse their decision it will be to hold a poll amongst their members.I don’t think they’ll be making it a Scottish members only one though.So expect a reaffirmation of their position after it,as all those businesses based in London sway the vote.
Sorry Ian 🙂
Sorry Ian 🙂 🙂
@Thepnr
That depends on whether I’d be over on the East coast that day – not impossible. I’ll see if the better half fancies a trip across 🙂
Will Podmore:-
You say in your first post the oil issue is one of “international law”. That is entirely correct. Please Google Professor Collier’s CV. He is not a lawyer. He has no legal training of any description. He has no expertise or specialism in international law or even oil/petroleum economics.
As a (humble) litigation lawyer, I can assure you that if someone like Professor Collier attempted to give an ‘expert’ opinion on this issue in any UK court, he would be prevented from doing so. Quite simply, he is not qualified. Why, therefore, the BBC – on national radio – chose to hold him out as some authority, is laughable.
An excellent treatment of the issue can be found in the ‘reportingtheferendum’ blog linked above. The governing legal principles are clear & longstanding. But don’t let them get in the way of another scare story…..
@Boorach says:
BBC Drivetime reporting CBI to reverse position on referendum!
Did nobody tell the CBI that the Bitter Together tank they were given to drive only has reverse gears?
Even if the CBI reversed its public position what would it matter? Style over substance every time.
CBI U-turn story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618
Think I’ll pop over to BT Facebook and gently mock them for an hour or so.
Calgacus
I have this vision of Flipper,Carmichael et al coming on stage to give their positively negative pronouncements to the sound of a reversing lorry.
I actually got barred from the Scotsman a couple of years ago for saying the same thing after another[I forget which one]embarrassing climbdown.
@ Calgacus MacAndrewsm thanks for the link with so much teamGB freakydeeky weirdness to go round
“The current rules state that any peer must be a UK taxpayer when it comes to income tax, capital gains tax and inheritance tax. Lord Wallace of Tankerness, leader of the Lib Dems in the Lords, said recently that people would have to think whether they “felt that it was worth paying income tax in two separate countries to continue their membership of the House of Lords. But the House of Lords is self-governing and would have to decide how its own rules should change.”
So how come the likes of UKOK tax dodger of the millennium Lord Billionaire Ashcroft out there in Belize, is a Lord of the realm, apart from donating £6 million to the Tory party.
The fact bettertogetherBBC can state openly that the HoL’s is self-governing says all you need to about the charming vote NO Scotland BBC team of democrats in Glasgow right now
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Aye, hitting their purse makes a difference.
Maybe they’ve just re-assessed the logic of their stance and seen the light. Nah. I wonder if they’ve had legal representation from a “few” of their un-canvassed members north and south of the border. More likely.
Utter arrogance.
So, the BBC will now ‘unsuspend’ their membership and we’re all back to normal?
And Iain MacMillan STILL hasn’t resigned?
Hahahahahaha!
“When You Leave Me Please Walk Backwards So I’ll Think You’re Coming In.”
@Thepnr (re our laughs yesterday)
It’s now definitely THE HOKEY COKEY REFERENDUM !!!!!
🙂
No chance BBC.
No soddin’ chance!
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
On BBC Radio 1pm news this evening no MSP was available to discuss day-tripper Miliband’s rivetting analysis of the union and Scotland’s future – our MPs were attending Margo’s funeral service – so the BBC in these times of profound debate, desparate to retain a balance of views, brought on not one but two Labour politicians to create an ambiance of serious discussion by men of opposing views.
Alas, the politicians were Lord Ffoulkes and Brian Wilson, men who disseminate falsehoods as a way of life.
Together they were given (probably) 7 minutes to say just about any lie that entered their head, which was a lot, there being no grey matter to hold anything else.
Both men ought to be cautioned by the police, in my opinion, for the untruths they pedal and the costs that accompany them, but perhaps the noise of them burping in unison might have struck listeners as rather distasteful since each admitted they had arrived hot foot from ..
… Margo’s funeral.
The Captains of Industry at the CBI are a pretty impressive bunch. they need to be on the TV giving more business advice.
They say success is built on meticulous long term planning. I never thought of 1 week as long term though.
The head of the CBI in Scotland has just asked if he can withdraw his support for the no campaign as he “made an honest mistake”,
and the walls come tumbling down!
Oxford professors are just as prone to the bottle and a lurch for the limelight same as the rest of us.
Being an academic does not signify necessarily a man of any great intelligence, common sense, or integrity.
@goldenayr says:
Calgacus
I have this vision of Flipper,Carmichael et al coming on stage to give their positively negative pronouncements to the sound of a reversing lorry.
LOL
From here on in I am going to hear a reversing-lorry-bleeping-noise every time I see Flipper blinking.
the cbi hokey cokey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUoEB3DBSjo
Any sign of a ‘Blow to the Union’ headline ?
john king says:
The head of the CBI in Scotland has just asked if he can withdraw his support for the no campaign
Withdraw + NO … is that a double-negative?
Does that mean the man from CBI he say YES?
Anyone remember Professor Sir Stanley Unwin?
Professor Sir Stanley made more sense than this professorr numptie. Here’s what Professor Sir Stanley had to say on, “Devolution”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/realmedia/thinkofengland/unwindevolution.ram
From the BBC story:
“Others, including the BBC, suspended their membership.”
Jaw-dropping. Venal.
Grouse Beater
Especially if they’re “Oxford Dons”.
These are the guys that denied Einstein a place because he’d show them up.And withheld academic advances until they could discredit the original author and replace him or her with one of their own.
@kendomacaroonbar says:
Any sign of a ‘Blow to the Union’ headline ?
… and the those simpler, gentler days when every headline began “Salmond Accused …” seem a lifetime ago.
It appears that cringe is not simply a Scottish trait………..
The CBI has reversed its No stance on the Scottish independence referendum after legal advice.
In a statement released on Friday the business lobbying body said it had asked the Electoral Commission to “nullify its application under the Scottish Referendum Act following legal advice”.
Following a review by the CBI board and in the light of legal advice from its lawyers and Queen’s Counsel it has emerged that the application should not have been made.
The body said it did not have approval under the CBI’s normal corporate governance procedures and was not signed by an authorised signatory.
Therefore, the CBI has asked the Electoral Commission to render its application null and void with immediate effect.
A number of bodies had quit CBI this month after it registered as an official campaigner against Scottisdh independence.
The Law Society of Scotland, which represents solicitors across the country, made the announcement on Tuesday, saying it could not remain impartial if it stayed a member of the business-lobbying body.
Several other organisations also resigned from CBI Scotland over its decision to back a No vote in the independence referendum — including a university closely affiliated to the business organisation’s director.
CBI’s director general said the decision to register as a No campaigner was “taken in good-faith” but “inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity”.
On Friday, John Cridland, said: “The CBI is politically independent and impartial. Although the decision to register with the Electoral Commission was taken in good faith, in order to carry out normal activities during the referendum period, it has inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity – we are not and never will be.
“We have always said that the referendum is a decision for the Scottish people and we’re not telling people how to vote.
“However, we do have a legitimate role as the UK’s biggest business group in raising important questions on the big issues affecting businesses, jobs and growth, which we will continue to do.
“Registration has raised a question as to whether we have changed the CBI’s role – we have not and that was never the purpose of registering.”
Mr Cridland added: “We are working closely with the Electoral Commission and have asked them to accept our legal team’s advice and nullify our application with immediate effect.
“We have also given a firm assurance to the Commission that during the regulated period the CBI will not carry out any activities that fall within the terms of the regulations.
“This includes campaign broadcasts, sending unsolicited material to voters or holding any referendum-specific press conferences.
“As businesses work hard to secure the economic recovery, the CBI has a job to do on behalf of CBI members and their employees to help create the right conditions for the UK to grow and prosper – and we will continue to do that without fear or favour.”
The Better Together should change their name to
Incompetents R Us.
You just couldn’t make it up.
I wonder how much money the BBC lawyers spent on phonecalls to convince their CBI chums to “unregister” with the Electoral Commission.
Flipper was at the Margo Memorial, and indeed he was referred to when Jim Sillars mentioned his nickname as the “Abominable No Man’
Here’s a link to the video of Jim Sillars’ speech today – I reckon there are a few quotes there to place underneath the Gandhi quote, and I wholeheartedly agree with his closing remarks, and so should we all.
http://news.stv.tv/east-central/272870-jim-sillars-says-margo-macdonald-wanted-unity-after-referendum/
CBI – Go on REV have a field day with them
Just come home from work to find the No campaign in complete disarray. Luckily, I had the presence of mind to pick up some champagne on the way home.
Cheers!
The quotes from the CBI are interesting. They seem to be begging the Electoral Commission to unregister them.
Can an organisation apply to be registered as a political entity and then say it is not a few days latter?
Is this why they are saying an unqualified person signed the application?
“The CBI is politically independent and impartial. Although the decision to register with the Electoral Commission was taken in good faith, in order to carry out normal activities during the referendum period, it has inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity – we are not and never will be.
Carrying out normal activities required registration. Yet they are not political? They can’t even see what is wrong with this, apparently. Can you?
G.Campbell
No money spent on phone calls.Port,Brandy and lunch at the “club”,however,swung it.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/mar/06/non-dom-refugees-ashcroft
Googled drunkard Lord Foulkes and co with Lord Ashcroft first and top of the list summing the New Labour Blair/Brown/Darling supremacy in all its ghastly big money worshipping, or what Stairheid Rammy fights for everyday from the bettertogether bunker. Sorry to its so O/T
“But does this defence stand up? TUC figures published in 2008 – the year London for the first time became the EU’s richest region, surpassing Luxembourg, Frankfurt and Paris – showed that wealthy individuals and big business were costing the Treasury £25bn through sophisticated tax avoidance measures and the country was missing out on £3.8bn of tax from non-doms.
In return for these tax savings, the government hopes that the super-rich will continue to jet in and out of London, buying up football clubs, mansions and industries. And maybe they will scatter a little largesse the way of the kindly government that allows such behaviour. Of the £188m raised by political parties between 2001 and 2008, some £17.5m came from those who had declared themselves to be non-domicile.
All three main parties have benefited. Labour took a healthy £8.9m from the likes of packaged food tycoon Sir Gulam Noon, Mittal and Sir Ronald Cohen, the godfather of British private equity, while the Tories did slightly worse with £5.6m from, among others, disgraced newspaper baron Conrad Black, Hans Rausing, the Tetra Pak tycoon and Lord Ashcroft. Even the Liberal Democrats have Indian businessmen Bhanu and Dhruv Choudhrie stumping up cash. It’s no surprise that when backbenchers forced through a law limiting non-dom party donations to £7,500 per year, the government delayed enacting it until after the 2010 general election.
Indeed, the 2006 “cash for honours” scandal highlighted the connection between donations to political parties and the award of life peerages. Some argue that government ministers and politicians of every hue need to keep in touch with leading industrialists. Those industrialists have a legitimate interest in the direction of the UK economy. And yet, there are limits and in certain well-informed quarters there’s a feeling that they have been crossed.
In early 2009 I met a senior civil servant attached to No 10 who had noticed the overwhelming number of high net worth individuals “in the constant orbit of the government. You do see a number of Russian exiles meeting with cabinet ministers, although that has slightly decreased recently as ministers do their due diligence. Nonetheless, key individuals with key contacts can pretty much walk into the rooms they want. Indian industrialists are particularly in attendance, they probably have the edge over Russians. You noticed that really pick up under the Blair administration and it has continued under Brown. What you also notice is the way ministers’ wives are part of the chain of access. The wives of the wealthy invite the wives of ministers to charitable events and then the husbands’ conversations are all about business and politics.”
On Friday, John Cridland, said: “The CBI is politically independent and impartial. Although the decision to register with the Electoral Commission was taken in good faith, in order to carry out normal activities during the referendum period, it has inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity – we are not and never will be.
Complete and utter bullshit. McMillan is a died in the wool Unionist and makes no bones about it. Who was in the least surprised when they signed up as a Better Together supporter? They have been found out and found wanting by their own membership who they clearly did not consult.
lets hope miliband remembered to switch off his body mike
lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktMt0b15GuM
Maybe they should change their name to the Collection of Bloody Idiots.
The CBI are, to quote Hank Williams, just in time to be too late.
Roll on September 18th!
Is the CBO a registered Charity?
Would being a member of the No campaign undermine their charitable status?
Cracker.
Calgacus@6:18
“From here on in I am going to hear a reversing-lorry-bleeping-noise every time I see Flipper blinking”
I’ve just been synchronising footage of Darling on his last foray to the Marr Show and reversing lorry audio and you know what?
Perfect match!
Whit the CBI reversing their decision on Legal Advice,
who’s Legal Advice, are they a member of the CBI,was Alistair Darling at the meeting, was there minutes taken( legal requirement ) was Bbc filming the meeting.
We need to see the footage ( naw no that footage, the wan wie blid n gore an the foot hinging aff.
Weil done Ian Brotherhood
Now for our next Petition getting Bbc F—– oota the
Peoples Scottish Parliament.
Cmon Ian,Cmon Ian.
CBI u-turn, too little, too late. Even if the Electoral Commission allows the CBI to de-register from Better Together, we’ll never again accept that they are ‘impartial’, and I hope if they are allowed to withdraw from BT, the companies/organisations don’t rush to re-join, or the same applies.
Still don’t think BBC should ever be a member of CBI, so keep signing Ian’s petition.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
I wonder if the CBIs original “legal” advice was by Prof Collier?
Good Morning Scotland is resorting to ever more unlikely sources in its efforts to find comment reliably hostile to Scottish independence. The other day it went to troubled US Republican Party pollster, Frank Luntz:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/the-agony-of-frank-luntz/282766/
To its chagrin, Luntz admitted that he didn’t have much of a grasp of what is going on in Scotland and might well have been wrong in his assumption that Scots would vote “No”.
All the headlines say something like “CBI reverse stance on independence”. All MSM making the same claim. Untrue!
The CBI has reversed its registration status with the Electoral Commission.
They have NOT changed their No stance. As far as I am concerned the BBC cannot be a member of a partisan organisation. Nothing has changed.
This is getting more surreal and is approaching my two weeks out diary which was a joke 🙂
This lot are a joke, a fucking huge one and we should all laugh at them. Cybernats do not let this go unnoticed, take the piss where possible while giving the truth.
I can’t get over this, really. What another botch up, are they just kidding us on lol?
I want to be part of the negotiating team! I’ll leave them in their drawers.
How long until John Cridland “steps down”?
@Bugger (the Panda) says:
Is the CBO a registered Charity?
Looks like they are not a registered Charity:-
© 2014 The CBI. Company number: RC000139 VAT number: GB 238 786416
The CBI’s (Confederation of British Industry’s) registered address is: Cannon Place, 78 Cannon Street, London EC4N 6HN
But that probably opens up other avenues of enquiry …
Never mind Iain MacMillan resigning, has he been seen at all on TV or heard on radio? Have they lost him, or has he lost it?
IanB – Signed
Just saw the grovelling “apology” from Cridland there – “I’m sorry but mistakes happen in life”…
Im sorry mate but you and your organisation have just lost any last shred of credibility it may have had, nonetheless im quite sure the BBC will have no qualms about wheeling you out multiple times from now until the referendum…
Another useful idiot trying to blow smoke in our eyes.
What the dear Professor has completely neglected to say in this whole issue, is that even though Scotland is not a sovereign state, Scots law has jurisdiction over the so called Scottish area. That is where the claim of right comes from. Maybe he is unaware of Scotland having a separate judicial system
Also as far as I know it, Scotland also administers the British Antarctic area, so that could count to be ours to
“The CBI is politically independent and impartial. Although the decision to register with the Electoral Commission was taken in good faith, in order to carry out normal activities during the referendum period, it has inadvertently given the impression that the CBI is a political entity – we are not and never will be.
I was going to make the same point Fiona. IMO, it is not possible to be an apolitical organisation if your primary function is as a political lobby group. There might also be a clue in the CBI’s name.
What we do
We deliver results for business by lobbying and campaigning
Our lobbying and campaigning helps keep business interests at the heart of policy in Westminster, the devolved administrations, across the UK regions and internationally.
Our senior team ensure your voice is heard around the world by regularly engaging with policymakers, legislators and regulators – supported by an advisory team of 90 economic and policy specialists.
http://www.cbi.org.uk/about-the-cbi/what-we-do/
There’s an awful lot of comments here, apologies for not reading them all, but – if all resources are everyones why am I paying for any? (I expect this has been answered but this guy is a professor, so I presume he kens something).
Filed under uncertainty and doubt, of the FUD files…
@ Calgacus MacAndrews
Forgive me but, can a limited company not also be a registered charity?
I have no knowledge of the ins and outs of this but let us not give them an easy ride.
Is Cridland a Lib Dem den ?
Incredible!
Apart from anything else I thought it was the oil companies that explored for and discovered the oil and not the UK government.
This guy is a professor?
Bugger (the Panda)
I would think that since charities are tax exempt and ltd companies register to avoid tax,then if they are there’s something wrong.
BTW I should’ve been an accountant[not].
Fair chuffed today, talked a definite No into a ‘you’ve given me something to think about’. She saw my yes wristband and asked if I was serious, well I explained my main reasons being ridding ourselves of WMD and correcting the democratic deficiency that is the UK, and the old chestnut about Alex being mortal I told her to visit WoS etc.
Then the Grand Old Dukes of the CBI they marched right up to the top of the hill and now they’re marching right back down. 🙂
EEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOWWWWWW ……kaaaaABOOOOM!!!!!
That folks …was the CBI’s credibility that you just heard crashing into the ground!
Red wine tonight Goldenayr and Calgacus MacAndrews.
BT is a well toasted festering stale sandwich.
Watching the opposition over the last couple of days I have noticed that the better together badges are no longer being worn, although no one has told Yvette Cooper who wore one during interview last night, but not today, perhaps they have decided not to be better together.
Can anybody out there shed some light on this.
Bugger (the Panda)
Of course,it,s Friday!
I toast the demise of BT at every glass.Stupid gits should’ve been gone by now and saved me a fortune.Ah well,just need to keep seeing if it’ll work…oh the agony.
No sense in talking among ourselves. Talk to the man himself at
paul.collier@economics.ox.ac.uk
re the CBI, whilst having a glass of rose with local admirers the ‘breaking news’ thread on the gogglebox stated that they had reversed their position, cue great hilarity – hadn’t realised how many of my acquaintances are so clued up, Brechin will need an AYE RIGHT leaflet drop soonest. Are our resources in Brechin the property of everyone?
@Calgacus MacAndrews 6:52pm
the RC prefix means that it’s a “Royal Charter Company” in England/Wales (whatever that means), but it has a Royal Charter … speechless.
I think Mrs Queen needs to have a word in young Cridland’s ear.
company registration prefixes: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/pdf/uniformResourceIdentifiersCustomerGuide.pdf
Dave McEwan Hill
Cheers Dave.
@Will Podmore :
Perhaps, Mr Podmore you might inform we ignorant Scots at what time in history Scotland ceased to legally be a country and became a region of anything? While you are at it could you indicate at what point the United Kingdom ceased to be a bipartite Kingdom formed by a Treaty of Union and became a country?
I quote you, “Article I”, of the Treaty of Union that formed a bipartite, “United Kingdom”, from the two signatory Kingdoms of Scotland, (a single country), and England a three country Kingdom that annexed Wales in 1284 by the Statute of Rhuddlan and Ireland in 1542 by The Crown of Ireland Act.
I also quote you, “Article III”, of the Treaty that formed the new joint Union Parliament of, “Great Britain”. As no other than Scotland & England, as kingdoms, singed that Treaty and no further kingdoms have since joined it still remains a bipartite union of two equally sovereign kingdoms.
”Article I. That the two kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof, and for ever after, be united into one kingdom by the name of GREAT BRITAIN; And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said united kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint,, and the crosses of St Andrew and St George be conjoined, in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit, and used in all flags, banners, standards and ensigns, both at sea and land.
Article III. That the united kingdom of Great Britain be represented by one and the same parliament to be stiled The Parliament of Great Britain.”
Croompenstein
Well done, mate. You were not the only one. I also had a chat with a ‘No’er’ in the late afternoon after the CBI fiasco. He’s not come around to the ‘Yes’ vote, but he is asking questions. He started asking questions as the room began to empty for the evening.
What he did say that I found very interesting is that he was voting ‘No’ because he wanted nothing to change. He’s not voting for the Union; he’s voting ‘No’ because he’s quite happy with the status of his life. However, now that half of my section are voting ‘Yes’, he’s quietly asking questions. I gave him the basic facts on the EU, defence, Financial Institutions and Currency. I have a feeling that my colleague is open to persuasion and wants to follow whatever most of his countrymen are going to do …and I do believe, quite a few will do this too. The minute we get over that 50% mark …many more will follow.
But that’s great Croompenstein. Brilliant mate!
The Bitter Together campaign are leaving the CBI to swing in the wind. They must have known of the CBI’s decision prior to going public and sanctioned the move, it’s got Flipper’s name all over it..same as the sermon on the pound, Flipper must stay
@ croompenstien – I wear my Yes bracelet around my ankle, I find it gets noticed, maybe you should try the same?
I think this graphic clearly shows the CBI’s British focus. Incidentally, I think the CBI was established under Royal Charter in 1965.
http://www.cbi.org.uk/about-the-cbi/what-we-do/cbi-policy-plan-2013/illustration/
Flipper must stay
Flipper will flubbering and flopping around in a flipping fouling mood tonight!
Can you imagine the histrionics in the Darling household tonight! I bet the dark days of the economic crash look great compared to the disasters revolving around Better Together. At least the Banks were saved! Who’s saving Better Together? Who’s saving Darling?
Cheers JLT, every little helps I just keep chipping away, I don’t force my thoughts on folk but if they ask about the yes wristband or badges I am only too willing to fill them in, it’s thanks to WoS(Rev) and posters such as yourself that have armed me with the info I need to make folk such as the lady today stop and think differently..Thanks JLT
Paula Rose says:
@ croompenstien – I wear my Yes bracelet around my ankle, I find it gets noticed, maybe you should try the same?
You must be far more supple then I.
The Charge of the CBI Brigade:
RETREAT! RETREAT!
Croompenstein
Have you tried a YES day of action yet?
Always informative and a great way of talking to undecideds and sowing seeds of doubt in no voters
@ Paula Rose – Oh you tease. Perhaps you would wear this? 🙂
Great titter, oooops twitter account YesWindaes.
twitter.com/cynicalwenchy/status/459052590861254656/photo/1
“You must be far more supple then I”
Awright! I admit it.I’m from Kelvinside…Happy?
im finding it hard to understand why scottish liebour msps are so rabidly protecting the careers of their scottish liebour mps in london by rejecting independence by lying and sneering and smearing which surely they must realise people in scotland will not forget. . i think they all must think they have a chance of getting in on the gravy train if we stay under london rule.
They want to reverse a decision based on legal advise take after it was made public? Perhaps if they’d taken advantage of having the Law Society of Scotland as members they could have run it past them for some free advice. Never mind that this presents the decision making processes of the CBI and the legal basis of any of their pronouncements in a very poor light.
Hope this link works better, I am feart of screwing up Rev Stu’s server.
http://t.co/VWy0RWShc8
Talking of persuading the No’s here’s a wee story from me from two weeks ago.
OK It’s Saturday and I’m in the clubby (Fairmuir, Juteman will know that). Anyway I do it all the time and ask the person next to me ” What you think about September and the referendum? Usually they say “don’t know yet” that’s only because they don’t want to put their foot in it and say the opposite of what I believe.
Anyway to get to the point I was in an area of the club I don’t normally frequent but spotted someone I knew sitting with a friend. So I approached them.
“How you doing Alex” and i shook his hand, hope your voting Yes I said “No problem there, I’m SNP”. “Good man” I said.
His friend then said straight away “I’m voting No” good man I said and shook his hand, “everyone has a voice so I’m pleased to hear yours”.
Then I said, “I hope you know what you are voting for when you vote No” “Aye to keep what we’ve got and I can’t stand Salmon”
Well “think about a No and when we lose free prescriptions, you grandkids have to pay £9000 to go to Uni, your mother has to sell her hoose to pay for care!”
He looked at me and I swear said “I’m an undecided”.
Here in Wales our coal belonged to everyone which is why trillions of pounds worth of coal was stolen from us and all future generations have from that era is a few statues to dead miners.
Of course more recently our water belonged to everyone which is why whole communities were drowned in order to provide water that costs less in England than it does in Wales.
now, i wonder who claim rights to all the natural resources in the Continent of Africa. Colonialists have pillaged that area for years and still do.
i make no apology in saying this man is a moron.
O/T
Got a really nice surprise in the post today, a Saltire Bandana in an envelope with no indication of who sent it to me, just an Aye Right card in there with it. Will be worn with pride when I’m driving my mid – life crisis 2 seater with the roof down – weather permitting.
@Jim T says:
@Calgacus MacAndrews 6:52pm
the RC prefix means that it’s a “Royal Charter Company” in England/Wales (whatever that means), but it has a Royal Charter … speechless.
Thanks!
The ‘Royal’ bit will mean that ‘magic’ is involved (like with magic babies that have devine rights).
So now we have Indtref HOKEY COKEY meets HOCUS POCUS.
I wonder if you can get your Royal Charter ‘withdrawn’ if you do too much omnishambling ….. ?
GoldenAyr
N Kelvinside MYSELF, aka Inner Bearsden.
Welsh not British (@welshnotbritish)
That’s not all you’ve lost.I’m sorry to say that all the sons and daughters of Cymru,that I know,are pro-union.They seem to accept their lot as Westminster vassals and only display patriotism at sporting events.
One guy I know well,an ex squaddie,was so brainwashed,he thought they should send the army in to exterminate anyone who didn’t subscribe to his viewpoint.When I said that went against the armed forces ethos of freeing people seeking democracy,he started screaming I was a “fucking towel head”.
This is one of many reasons we must secure a YES vote.For no other reason than to show these poor people there is another way,a positive way.
IMO, Royal Charters are a vital tool enabling the exercise of imperial power. I think this is highlighted by this list of organisations formed under Charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_with_a_British_royal_charter
What is blindingly obvious and what many of us have predicted some time ago is that the Brits are going to get very unpleasant between now and the referendum. We are beginning to see the emergence of the fascist core of Britannia that will stop at nothing not even full on military action to protect the UK against Scottish Independence. The more likely it looks that Yes are going to win, the higher the volume will go and much much more of this kind of agitation and imperialist drum banging will be seen and heard. Naughtie is simply one of the useful idiots dragooned in to man the ramparts. The BBC have no intention of behaving in any way that could be regarded as fair and impartial, simply because they are not. Their very existence depends on Scotland remaining cowed and subservient to the great Britnat state. Once we are independent their reason for existing has gone, as they are the glue that holds the Empire together. The problem is that glue has been diluted by corruption and greed. The BBC have poisoned their own chalice. There are many who would be delighted to see it privatised. Not least the Tory’s.
What should be a source of great concern to Scotland is what can only be seen as a direct military challenge to us with this Armed Forces day in Stirling, right in the face of the Bannockburn commemorations.If that is not threatening and attempted intimidation then what is? I predict a lot of trouble on that particular event. Pissed up squaddies are not known for their diplomatic skills. There is no doubt in my mind that this potential confrontation has been deliberately engineered with just such trouble in mind.Saturday the 28th of June has the potential to be one of the blackest days in our country. Thanks to the coalition of Tory and Labour councillors running the council, despite the SNP being the largest party, we are being set up. I hope I am wrong but I fear the very worst. The Britnats have form, all we need to do is look across the Irish sea.
From the CBI website:-
The CBI is a not-for-profit organisation that was incorporated by Royal Charter in 1965. Its ultimate governing body is its Council, comprising a broad representation of its membership. In practice, the Council has delegated the majority of decision-making powers to the Chairmen’s Committee and the CBI Board.
Hmmm …. “not for profit” …. “Royal Charter” ….
Bugger (the Panda
Fairdoos,you’ve got me,I lied.Born in Lenzie,grew up in Stirlingshire and every Burgh thereafter.
It just reminded me of a couple of Kelvinside women walking through my village saying in their poshest phone voice
“Would you look at they coos in that field just shittin where they please!”
Was scything at the time,still surprised I’ve got both legs.
Looking forward to iScotland claiming 8% of the shale gas in rUK and Prof Collier sending in the Nigerian army once Biafra…sorry Scotland declares UDI
the CBI have now officially withdrawn form the No campaign
Shit]
Used to live in Lenzie, Regent Sq and owned The Gallery Restaurant and public Howf, fo0r a couple of years.
Sex was in where the Kelvinside matrons received their coal.
Shit]
Used to live in Lenzie, Regent Sq and owned The Gallery Restaurant and public Howf, fo0r a couple of years.
Sex was in wot the Kelvinside matrons received their coal.
@Henbroon
I’ve read many of your posts not just here but BTL on the usual papers. I always think you do a good job but this post tonight makes me think you may have had one more than usual.
Military action is just daft I’m sure you’d agree, more subtle forms of intimidation may or may not arise. Meantime remaining calm and winning the argument is what we’re about.
I know we all may be a bit stressed but just think how the other side feel! Their freaking out and losing the plot, we can afford to remain calm, cool and collected. Did I steal that from a film?
@ jock
How are going to get 8% of Big Ben up to Scotland?
How about we use one of our nuclear subs to bring it up?
Thepnr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HDWOo1eaT4 🙂
The Gallery was an underage haunt when I still knew folk there,and it was no restaurant.The Howf I can’t think of,many years between then and now.Put it this way,the last time I was there,the place to drink was the Golden Pheasant in Auchinloch and the Antonine in Kirky with auld Babs behind the bar and no football tops except rangers allowed
Extra! Extra!
Read all about it!
Here is the CBI U-turn / retreat / climbdown in their very own words (Mr Cridland):
http://archive.today/zrxrP
(Warning: May contain traces of panic)
It’s great to read that “The CBI is politically independent and impartial”.
WHIT !!!!!
@ Thepnr
“I know we all may be a bit stressed but just think how the other side feel! Their freaking out and losing the plot, we can afford to remain calm, cool and collected. Did I steal that from a film?”
Thatcher said, “revenge is dish best served cold.”
Boy am I looking after this.
@ Goldenayr
My partner and I sorted it out and turned into a “local pub” with no nonsense.
The Gallery
Wish I still owned it; would be worth about £1 million now.
@Bugger (the Panda) says:
The Gallery
Wish I still owned it; would be worth about £1 million now.
… any you’d probably be Chair of the Refreshments Committee of CBI Scotland.
Bugger (the Panda)
Well done,must have taken some work with the arrogant “My Daddies this” bunch.
Hats off to you,and it will be would’ve been worth more with a bit of land for a play area.
@CameronB
Loved it. “You’ve get to get mad. I’m a human being God Dammit! My life has value” Brilliant, cheers.
Sorry
Should’ve been an apostrophe between will and be.Hope it still makes sense..damned red wine.
@Bugger the Panda 8.13,Dont be daft, this is a serious site
(useing one of our Nuclear subs tae transport our share of Big Ben up here.
You,ve no thought aboot the Russian Topalofs, its a certainty they spot it, probibly pish theirselves laughfin
a Sandstane Con Tower.ok throw the stanes an hiding under the bed.
There’s something else in this that needs questioning. The UK government did not decide that it’s natural resources – coal, oil, gas, belonged to ‘everybody’. It sells exploration & production rights in onshore and offshore blocks to the highest bidder, whether a British company or a foreign one, then takes a cut.
The British government then spends the cut on what it sees fit.
That’s NOT ‘giving it to everybody’
If the part of a country that has the natural resources becomes independent, then it takes them with it, because they’re found in it’s territory. It’s one of the main reasons that the UK cannot tax oil & gas found in the USA, Canada, Australia or India, as those countries became independent and obviously ‘took their natural resources with them’ despite the UK very generously ‘giving them to everybody’
This ‘professor’ seems to think that ‘everybody’ in the UK decided to go look for oil & gas as a team, with the agreement that they share the revenue, as if they were some kind of 60-million strong Co-op drilling company. Is he suggesting that a cut of rump UK gas revenue, onshore oil revenue, City of London revenue and tourist receipts to the Lake District be given to Scotland because, ‘it belongs to everybody’
ronnie Anderson
Bagsie the ropes for the bells.They’ll make braw tree swings for the bairns.
Richard Taylor
Stop talking sense,they monitor you in Cheltenham.
I actually share HenBroon’s fear, perhaps not so much military action tho. I can see many events this summer being disrupted by groups hell bent on violence as a way of tarnishing our countrys image and the independence cause in the eyes of the rest of the UK and the world. It is a very real threat and one we should be prepared for.
Goldenayr
The roof was load bearing but we could never get permission for a send story because it was at eye level for passing traffic because of the sunken position of the shopping centre.
`We had a ski-ing club and a used to lob out one or two “Daddies this” bunch which fwukd up their self esteem and after a period let them back in on a short lease,
Worked well and their Daddies came for a drink or two after a round of golf at LGC or with their wives.
Friday and Saturday were no holds barred evenings with older and younger mixing very well together.
Still glad I am out though. It was the hardest work for the longest hours for the smallest return I have ever had in my life.
Now at 471 –
We’ve got the BBC’s longer ba’-hairs in a mangle. Do we give them time to phone someone for a pair of scissors, or keep turning that handle…hmmm?
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
@ Ronnie just Ronnie
You are a class act
Chapeau!
The CBI cats out the bag… genie out the bottle… beans spilt everywhere. They can’t just turn around and undo what has been done. Crazy!
BtP,
Well you would be in In-a-Bears-den, wouldn’t you?
Ian Brotherhood
My twin brother just signed up.
cearc
You are the first person to work that out!
Aww… forgot tae post my wee linky to remind us all just what the CBI still think and support…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10722890/CBI-tells-Salmond-his-independence-plans-dont-add-up.html
The CBI promoting the anti-Independence politics then saying it is impartial and independent is as credible as the robber standing in the bank and saying, I’m not robbing this bank.
@BTP –
Is he identical, right down to the bow-tie?
Please send him my regards.
BTW, I don’t know what it’s like where you are, but we can’t move for bloody Bulgarians here in Stevenston. Was just at the local Lidl and there must’ve been 600 of them in there, easy, arguing about turkey sausages and vodka and suchlike. Pain in the arse!
@Goldenayr, sos pal they ropes are booked,do you ken any roofers,ah need a bucket of hot Tar on the 19th Sept 14.
@Soda
I understand your concern and admittedly was of a similar mind at one time. However, please believe me the Yes grassroots movement is far too strong for any underhand business to go unnoticed.
There will always be the obvious crazy around as highlighted here from the Yes stall in Wester Hailes.
We as a group have nothing to fear except fear itself! That is a fact, you may feel alone but you are not. As corny as it sounds, it is true, we stand together and have nothing to fear.
Did a utube search for Bulgarian mangler. Look what I found. 🙂
UNHUMAN – SQUIRREL (death/grind)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6XTnoFoqY8
I do not know what anyone else thinks but I do not think that anyone who declared their position like the CBI did, then try and worm their way out of it, should be allowed to de-register at all.
I think the Electoral Commission should refuse, they declared and that is that. They will know a leopard cannot change it’s spots. Maybe we should be pointing this out to them,as there is no justification for allowing it, despite the crawling CBI changing their wording.
Gruniard now reporting the latest CBI _______________ *
http://archive.today/WxZpX
No comments allowed at the moment.
(* Complete as appropriate. No sweary words please.)
If the CBI person who signed the paperwork is in a position that empowers him/her to act on behalf of the CBI then the Electoral Commission have surely no grounds to reject their *voluntary* application.
The public statements of senior CBI officials this week demonstrate they clearly wished to register as part of the official No campaign.
The electoral commission are being treated like fools. They should not let the CBI damage their credibility.
@Les Wilson
I don’t think it matters now they were always going to campaign against Yes no matter if they were registered with the Electoral Commission or not.
All they have succeeded in doing is making a complete arse of themselves, exposing their true colours and giving plenty more people a reason for voting Yes.
I couldn’t care less what the CBI thinks and why they have ANY members at all still with them astounds me.
Other than greasing palms, could there possibly be another reason for their existence? Lets get rid of the lot of them, no more cronyism, no more cash for questions and no more fucking parasites!
@ Thepnr
I see what you mean, you are talking about groups infiltrating events in the guise of Yes supporters however that’s not i am wary of. I’m more concerned about overt acts of aggression and violence. Any acts of violence will be an attempt to tarnish our country as a whole and will be pounced upon by a, lets face it, hostile press and media. I dont mean to sound negative or bring a downer on things but i just think its a real possibility and something we should prepare ourselves for.
Next edition of Yes Paper went to printer 6am today
deliveries from Monday onwards,delivery to homes within the week.
Bugger and Ronnie[now there’s a comedy duo]
Still well done on taking on a scheme pub.I know it wasn’t your run of the mill scheme but it’s still a scheme.Replacing one housing estate in a run down part of Glasgow with a scheme in an affluent area outside it,is madness.Paying a premium for the same environment?
Ronnie
Nae chance,I’ve the perfect branch over the perfect pool for thae ropes.
Ian Brotherhood
Actually LIDL has the best cheaper Chicken and steak, look at the quality of the packing, not the price per kg in the fridge, and their beer is actually okaydokay-ish but not now Reinheitsgebot?en
OK for razors and stuff, otherwise.
Gypsies, from Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary are all camped out in front of the cash dispensers, with or without babes in arms. The one outside my flat is TLS is quite a nice guy and I am going to give him a load a clothes for his tribe to sell.
There are differences between the “nationalities”
I am ashamed to say that I cannot work out how they can really be helped beyond charity.
That annoys me.
Aside from all the justifiable hilarity, where is this ‘legal advice’ they’re bleating about? (Well, two sets actually. Can we see either/both, or has Cridland’s dog already eaten them?)
Have they apologised to their members for making them a laughing stock? Do they seriously think they can get out of this without heads rolling?
Most important of all – who ‘advised’ them to change their mind? It had to have come from the top, and I doubt any of us would suffer catatonic shock to discover it was precipitated by panic about the BBC’s position.
Who was it?
@ Ian Brotherhood
Same bow tie but different signature.
African slavery by European Monarchies is a crime against humanity.
We can stir up the BT Establishment, by supporting slave reparations.
The British Empire aristocracy and their UK estates still exist. These estates can be pursued under the proceeds of crime.
Queen Elizabeth1 of England was a slave owner.
Francis Drake, English pirate was a slave owner.
After the loss of America,the British Hanovarian Monarchy ordered HMS “BOUNTY” to the Pacific, looking for food plants to grow as feed for Jamacian slaves(BreadFruit)!
http://www.panafricanperspective.com/reparations.htm
“It was brought to Jamaica from Tahiti by Captain William Bligh on his second voyage to the South Pacific in 1793. His main reason for introducing breadfruit to Jamaica was to feed the slaves.”
http://www.jamaican-recipes.com/breadfruit.html
ps. Also we must advocate the return to rightful owners of artifacts stolen by the British Empire from Occupied Territories: eg.
1. Elgin Marbles – classical Greek Parthenon sculptures.
2. Cleopatra Needle – ancient Egyptian obelisk.
3. Tipu’s Tiger – mechanical lifesize automaton of Tipu Sultan, King of Mysore, India.
In UK general elections where does CBI & BBC stand re impartiality? Or are there different rules in this process? Just wondering!
Nightol
Red wine working well, this warm evening.
BtP
Papadox
No difference.The CBI support the tories and the BBC support labour.
Bugger (the Panda)
Oichde mhath.
Still got mine to finish,last glass.
@Calgacus MacAndrews
ClusterDuck, is my guess… dictionary definition: to hide behind an intern, or other such useful idiot.
Rev Rev Goldenayr’s goat ah pool, we kin keep the Frogs in
before we send them tae Scargo land.
A cynic would say that they didn’t ask the Queen’s Council for advice, they were given it. Perhaps someone pointed out to them that the terms of their Royal Charter mean they aren’t allowed to register as a direct participant in the upcoming referendum. I assume that said Royal Charter might be removed from them should they be unable to have their registration revoked. I wonder which brave soldier will have to fall on his sword and claim it was him wot done it without consulting the rest of his organisation?
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Comments on the Guardian now open on CBI U-turn shock story.
Thepnr. I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong. But as lad who watched the intimidation and agitation on the streets of Belfast, created by the agents of the Britnats, I know what they are capable of and how far they are prepared to go.The Britnats are frightened, cornered animals are most dangerous at that time. The voices of moderation are easily swept aside at such times as we saw with Iraq.
sweet dreams to all
Yes, the British Establishment has sent in the shock troops already, ’cause I for one am totally shocked at what a shambles they are.
@Soda
Nope, sorry if I didn’t explain myself well the first time. I am not talking about groups of any sort doing this that or the other.
It just isn’t going to happen, take the WOS night out in a couple of weeks time. The pub is completely covered by CCTV so who other than a local loon would be violent?
Any local loon would soon be dealt with by the staff as it should be, we really don’t need to be concerned about perceived threats that do not exist.
What is the alternative? Hide underground using CB radios? That is the worst thing you can do. Our campaign is open for all, held in public unlike BT meets. Everyone is welcome and if the occasional oddball turns up. Well we can deal with that.
No fear. Stand tall. Stand proud. Take no shite anymore or lie down!
I’m sincerely in difficulty. I can’t find words accurate enough to describe this disgrace. Maybe I should just take a map of Africa, search for an online paper in each Country and post Collier. Maybe then people will open their eyes on what the bloody imperialist think of them while exploiting it’s resources.
@ MajorBlodnok
Shambles-R-us
@BTP –
Was only joking about Lidl and Bulgarians etc in a feeble effort to get back on-topic after pestering the life out of everyone about that petition.
I love Lidl, use it all the time – their cider is great. Four cans for £2.09 (it’s on offer right now) and it’s good, tasty stuff, not yon white-madness. And the grub’s no’ bad either (especially all the fresh bread).
Nicht-nicht!
ronnie Anderson
Touch ma frogs and I’ll eat yer legs.
Masters of the universe f##k things up again.
CBI are now completely discredited in this debate.
Better Together are deep in shit for supporting the CBI.
What a god awful mess.
@Ian Brotherhood
Petition signed.
was not holding you to any middle class constipation.
Panda have problems with bowel movements; all that fibre in the bamboo.
Ask the Major, he knows all about these things
@MajorBloodnok says:
@Calgacus MacAndrews
Comments on the Guardian now open on CBI U-turn shock story.
Thanks, I’d spotted that. I’ve had to come back across to Wings now.
My sides were getting too sore from laughing.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/scottish-independence-referendum-cbi-uturn-no-campaign?commentpage=1
@goldenayr, feker you,ve spilt ma coffee.
I could just imagine the Panda, Ian B and the Major all in the same room at the same time…Silence LOL
Bugger (the Panda)
Vacuated long ago.Never understood it when I recounted my birthplace until much later.
sorted Cling film keyboard
ronnie Anderson
Get wi the program.Friday nights,red wine or cordial,nae coffee.
ronnie I know your on the irn bru, thank feck would hate to hear your words of wisdom with a drink in yeh! 🙂
Does he realise that if his opinion is correct every single word that has been said about Shetland declaring independence in order to waltz off with all the oil is pure hot air?
Quick, somebody tell Tavish “it’s wur oil” Scott!
CBI reversal took the shine right off of Mr Ed’s, “Save the Union” speech, not that it had much of a shine to take off in the first place.
I am sure I heard Business for Scotland saying earlier that the CBI decision to pull out of the NO Campaign might not be as straight forward as they think.
Could be more problems lying ahead for the CBI.
And the BBC need to resign completely from this organisation, immediately.
@ Ian Brotherhood at 8.39pm
It’s indecorous comments like this which are forcing me to seek out and purchase your other oeuvre. I hope you’re happy with yourself.
Just got back from a yes campaign meeting in Ballingry with Louise Bachelor, Ivan McKee and a man from NHS Scotland whose name disgracefully I have managed to forget, in spite of the fact it was his first speaking engagement, and acquitted himself admirably, a man approached me and said “jdman I assume”, turns out it was none other than Handclapping (nice to have met you) in spite of atrocious weather there was a respectable turnout of about 70 people (Ballingry’s not the grand metropolis)but I met a lot of local worthies such as Joe Paterson (snp councellor rtrd) Wullie Clarke (communist councellor )whose most recent claim to fame was when he played a part presenting a medal to a miner in the BBC drama “The Happylands”.
caz-m
Yeah,handy..wasn’t it?
@caz-m –
‘Could be more problems lying ahead for the CBI.’
‘Kin right.
Where’s the ‘legal advice’ paperwork?
Who were those advisors?
Who’s the anonymous sacrificial ‘junior’?
And who was it that got Cridland in a quiet corridor, gripped his testes and whispered ‘let me explain…’?
Ian Brotherhood : CBI & BBC better together.
Just returned from YES meeting Ballingry which went well. I counted 56 folk in just before the start but when I looked round later a lot more seats were filled near the back I reckoned about 75ish. Smallish side hall so quite full and more than Turned up at the Lib/Dem Party Conference. 🙂
So catching up here and wondering if the latest CBI u-turn lets the BBC off the hook as it were.
Does the BBC now suspend their suspension of CBI membership.
Both now spoilt goods I suspect, “You could not make it up” as Ivan Mckee said earlier tonight when asked to comment.
@ Thepnr
It would be silent but, only verbally.
Sounds like “What’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine” to me. Great in those eyes if the UK robs India, Africa, Scotland, etc. of their resources…but a cataclysm if they look out for themselves or if someone wanted their stuff. The old imperial attitude still hasn’t faded.
Ian B
Let me guess…Prof Collier?
@Winging it –
You really are too kind (blushing smiley).
I write fiction, and a lot of it is pretty far-out (man)but even I wouldn’t have dared imagine this CBI/BBC scenario – it’s Jasper Fforde territory.
@ winging it @ 9:46 pm
vit?
Bugger (the Panda
The red wine kicked back in?
@ Ian B
Re Winging it’s comment at 21:46 I think you have a fan. Are you flogging work on ebay?
Tetotal the night the nite boys coffee an a wee dip o digestive.
Did the Guardian just close this article to comment and hide the comments – I logged in to join the CBI slapfest and it’s all gone!!! http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/scottish-independence-referendum-cbi-uturn-no-campaign?commentpage=1
@goldenayr –
For purely dramatic purposes it would be good to envisage an Oxford-based ball-grabbing professor who seizes any opportunity to stop having to think about African economics.
After what we’ve heard today? It’s about as plausible as anything else, so yeah, let’s go with it…he’s now Professor ‘Cough lad!’ Collier.
Ronnie
It’s the diggybiccies that do for us aw,
@Ian Brotherhood says:
@caz-m –
‘Could be more problems lying ahead for the CBI.’
‘Kin right.
And I am sure we are all magnifying-glasses-at-the-ready to read the big and small print in the CBI Royal Charter …
@Thepnr –
No more than usual. My works are not sought-after, largely because I refuse to publicise or discuss them. (It’s a post-structuralist thing, ken? I want people to think I’m dead, then they might ‘discover’ me.)
I’ve done the whole ‘up-and-coming-writer’ routine, and it bores the life out of me altogether:
‘So, where do you get the ideas for your stories?’
‘Ehm, the same place you got the idea for that question.’
Calgacus – they have a royal charter???
Oddly I’m not surprised…
@goldenayr, aye ah ken but the doggy wans are sore on the teeth, an ave still goat ma ain an wuld like tae keep then a bit longer.
Breaking News
Digestive Biscuits Will Not Be Allowed In An Independent Scotland.
A new report by Oxford academics has decreed that an independent Scotland,free from Westminster control.Will no longer be able to produce digestive biscuits because they were invented after the treaty of union.A spokesman from McVities said the company was devastated and they had no idea that recipes were in the ownership of Westminster.
A leading academic on internal African relations today reiterated his earlier affirmation to the ownership of all patents,minerals and ores to the British Crown.When questioned as to the dual nature and Scottish ownership of that crown,the academic said “Look,there’s a squirrel.”
Call me Dave says
“Just returned from YES meeting Ballingry ”
Where were you? , I was sitting next to Dave Bachelor (Louise’s Husband)
It looks like the Gruniard has ‘disappeared’ this evening’s hilarious comments on the CBI withdrawal symptoms story:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/scottish-independence-referendum-cbi-uturn-no-campaign
‘goldenaye fekit rich tea fae noo on
@john king – Was there anyone from bitter together there?
Ronnie
fekkit,kitchen towel to clean up the red wine spray!
Calgacus – yup – there were quite a few before they pulled them and each and every one mocking the CBI – I wonder if the Guardian is a member of the CBI perhaps???
I bet it is…
@Krackerman says:
Calgacus – they have a royal charter???
Oddly I’m not surprised…
It’s all unravelling: http://inagist.com/all/459745296722169856/
John Cridland on BBC R4’s The World Tonight.
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/mfqrnqod5tayyi9/r4_worldtonight_john_cridland_2014_04_25.mp3
The questions were as rubbish as you’d expect and he got off lightly.
A Royal Charter,as far as I remember,means that they have the right to call on HMG for help from the establishment and all of it’s subjects,pursuiant to the regents wishes.
That means,in layman terms,that it’s funded by the public purse i.e.funded by Govt grant.
@Krackerman says:
25 April, 2014 at 10:32 pmCalgacus – yup – there were quite a few before they pulled them and each and every one mocking the CBI
I put a comment on one of the other CiF Indyref pages, and a link to the-page-of-the-disappeared-comments.
Then the disappeared comments swiftly re-appeared ….
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/scottish-independence-referendum-cbi-uturn-no-campaign
Same deal as the BBC then, and if the Queen’s Council has had a word in their shell like perhaps the BBC will also get a visit, or perhaps they already have had one.
@goldenaye, tooshee
Comments are back up and open – dig in…. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/25/scottish-independence-referendum-cbi-uturn-no-campaign?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487&commentpage=1
Sorry guys,been busy roflmaso[is that the right text lingo?]to Gun Sgot on Alba.
Ronnie
My toushies on the sofa.
For non-Twitterers – this, just posted by Rev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yggb3yTaNG8 …
Ian
So what we can gather from that and previous CBI statements is that they’re still pro union,and the various orgs that subscribe will agree with their stance.The next Q as Ian has alluded to is..are they acting under a Royal Charter?
@goldenayr –
Sorry for slowness of response.
I don’t know if they’re acting under a Royal Charter, and TBH, I wasn’t aware of the thing until you mentioned it.
But I do know they appear to be acting like totally unprofessional dicks.
Then again, they’re maybe just ‘acting’ generally, from one day to the next?
goldenayr says:
Ian
are they acting under a Royal Charter?
Both the BBC and the CBI are upstanding Royal Charter organisations.
http://www.cbi.org.uk/about-the-cbi/what-we-do/governance/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/whoweare/mission_and_values/charter/
(File Under: pattern recognition )
Fiona writes, “My understanding is that there is clear law and precedent which establishes where the rights to oil on the continental shelf are vested. Indeed that is clear from the fact that the UK grants licenses to exploit those resources: if it is not the case then the UK has no conceivable right to do that. But if that is true then exactly the same rules apply to Scotland if it becomes an independent sovereign state.”
Right, and when Scotland isn’t an independent sovereign state, then Britain, as the independent sovereign state, has the rights to oil on its continental shelf.