A brilliant disguise
Last night’s extended edition of Newsnight Scotland was a special “no men allowed” independence debate. Unlike last week’s Question Time, the BBC at least offered a panel comprising equal representation from both sides, and one of the panellists was Amanda Harvie, introduced as a business consultant and former chief executive of a financial-services industry body, Scottish Financial Enterprise.
Ms Harvie claimed (around 42m into the programme) that she wasn’t an official ‘Better Together’ representative, “nor do I speak for a political party – I’m a businesswoman”. But an alert reader noticed that she looked a lot like another Amanda Harvie.
Readers can make their own judgements about whether promising to be a “voice at the heart of David Cameron’s Conservative government” counts as “speaking for a political party” or not. All we’ll say is that if a Tory candidate is going to appear on a TV show masquerading as a political neutral, we’d at least advise wearing a different suit to the one on their election leaflet.
Unionist politicians are endemic liars-but we all know that 🙂
More Amanda Harvie stuff: link to conservativehome.blogs.com
“Labour has an appalling track record of tinkering with corporation tax for the oil and gas industry and levying windfall taxes when the oil price is high. That is not the way to encourage business confidence and maximise investment, particularly when companies are finding it increasingly difficult to turn new UK offshore oil and gas reserves into economic production. The voters have a clear choice: either five more years of Labour tax, waste and debt or a Conservative government under David Cameron offering the policies and leadership that will strengthen the economy and help make Aberdeen and Britain competitive for the long-term. That is why I have joined the Conservative Party and am standing in this British General election with the aim of representing Aberdeen South at Westminster.”
Someone remind me – which party was it that put a windfall tax on the oil industry in 2011? Surely it wasn’t…. No, it can’t have been… The Tories?!?
“Amanda is a member of the advisory group established by the Shadow Chancellor, George Osborne MP to provide guidance to the Conservative Party on implementing its plans to reform the regulation of the financial services industry.”
Oooh, that’s a bit embarrassing. I can see why she’s trying to pretend she’s not a politician.
I have across many liars in my day, some of them fantasists, some stupid and others who wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them in the face like a wet kipper.
The internet has made less easy for the inveterate types.
You need a good memory and she is obviously both forgetful and stupid.
So how did she get on the panel and did she lie to the BBC as well, as if that matters in a House of Liars, so long as she lies on the right side
The fact that she’s wearing the same outfit is just comedy gold! lol
Kinda suggests unaligned Unionist footsoldiers (or ‘businesswomen’) are very thin on the ground.
TBF being a Scottish Tory candidate is probably just about as far as you could get from speaking for the Conservative and Unionist Party in any meaningful sense.
Does anyone know process and method used to choose the panel?
No idea how my comment managed to appear on this post, but it’s worked out for the best!
Incidentally, I really enjoyed seeing the official BetterTogether spokesperson Kainde Manji explaining how she understood what it’s like for the poorest in society because she had researched it. Patronising posh idiot.
Reminded me a bit of that scene in I’m Alan Partridge Series 2 Episode 3, where he goes to a Bravery Awards ceremony for local heroes in Norfolk.
“They’re so ruddy bloody brave. I love brave people. Sir Donald Campbell. Evil Knievel. Braveheart…”
“No idea how my comment managed to appear on this post, but it’s worked out for the best!”
Because I moved it here, like the SINISTER MANIPULATOR I am.
Ducks quack, Tories lie.
Faintly curious whether Amanda Harvie really has a genuine business background at all. All of her proclaimed qualifications show her income deriving from public bodies. On the face of it, she’s a career bureaucrat, a subsidy junkie, and a political zealot. Hopefully she will do lots more campaigning for BT.
Any chance we could also stop the Media using the word “attacked” when talking about Twitter rants, its all getting a bit OTT
link to heraldscotland.com
And I’m always very suspicious indeed about people who shout their ‘integrity’ from the rooftops.
Its not the first time this has happened. I can’t remember the guys name, but last year there was a lib dem candidate in a BBC audience, think it might have been for one of the independence debates.
Ummmmm, nope. Doesn’t look like a political neutral in any way shape or form.
Didn’t notice that she had the same camouflaged suit on! 🙂
I see that she is wearing the same auld jaiket. A hard up Tory?
The Scottish Financial enterprise is a lobby group in Scotland for the financial services industry.
She was the Chief Execurtive until she left and set up a consultancy organisation
She is a candidate for the Conservative Party’s nomination for Edinburgh South and here are her contact details.
link to yournextmp.com
“She is a candidate for the Conservative Party’s nomination for Edinburgh South and here are her contact details.”
I found that page, but couldn’t actually work out what it was, it’s so badly presented. Is it people who’ve stood in the past, or people who’re going to stand in the future? The name would suggest the latter, but how would they know that?
Not sure either but it does say that one of her rivals is Anne Begg, sister to the owner of Stagecoach
A Google reveals that Kainde Manji works in important areas such as violence prevention and ending gender discrimination in areas like pay. Why does she compromise her integrity by siding with a Tory fibber on a TV programme debating an issue that has no direct bearing on her important work? Of itself, Independence has no direct effect on women’s issues. One Establishment male in the UK has just escaped with a caution after assaulting his wife in public, another has received a derisory prison sentence for his decades long campaign of indecent behaviour towards children, so it can hardly be argued that women and children are perfectly protected in the UK. Neither can any claim be made that the situation would be better or worse should the UK continue or not.
Ms Manji also appeared to claim that the North of England needed Scotland to somehow save it from the vile Tory excesses presumably supported by her wingwoman last night. As one born and raised in the West Riding of God’s Own County, I can assure her that we need no help or patronising from her. When folk in the Broad Acres have had enough of the Tories, they’ll work it out for themselves.
She’d do well to restrict herself to her area of expertise in her public pronouncements – there is plenty still to there, sadly.
“Why does she compromise her integrity by siding with a Tory fibber”
Because she’s a Labour Party member, and that’s policy now.
Better Together must be in some trouble if they’re having to resort to blatant lies on who their own supporters are. Blatant lies about everything else are par for the course, but for a Tory to feel she has to deny being a Tory and pretend to be non-aligned is really saying something.
At least for a change there were two YES speakers and two NOs on the panel, so a little progress for the BBC I have to say – and if it needs the women to show the way, get them involved more (especially when the voxpop showed there are a lot of blank canvasses to work on)
I thought that woman had disappeared. A few years ago I used to see her all the time in Aberdeen, and putting across her Tory views in the papers. I remember she was the host as David Cameron visited some businesses in, I think, the Westhill area a couple of years back, showing him around and explaining where the hell he was.
It was on the TV and everything. They were like *that* (crosses fingers).
Which side was Anne Harvie on, Yes or No.
I can’t see BBC or ever use the iPlayer.
To be fair, independence referendum to one side, would you go on Scottish TV and admit to being a Tory?
😉
Correction that Anne Begg is not connected to Stagecoach’s Soutar
I twigged Amanda as a Pal of Dave straight away – she has the same hair as Rebekah Brookes
Plenty of juicy bits here.
link to conservativehome.blogs.com
Richard Lucas says:
18 June, 2013 at 11:45 am
I twigged Amanda as a Pal of Dave straight away – she has the same hair as Rebekah Brookes
Is ‘A Pal of Dave’ a code for Unionist, along similar lines to ‘A Friend of Dorothy’? 🙂
You mean does Amanda like to send Twits to Dave and ride horses n’that?
“Because I moved it here, like the SINISTER MANIPULATOR I am.”
I KNEW IT!!! Cybernat dirty tricks campaign.
A quick google search turns up this from George Osborne in 2009
I can tell you that Amanda Harvie, the former Chief Executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise and former head of the Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, has this week joined the advisory group that will help the next Conservative Government implement these reforms. For we understand financial services are not just important to the City of London.
link to conservatives.com
And this from the Guardian in 2010
link to guardian.co.uk
nice catch on her suit you fashionista you 😉
Fibbing Together
They can have their own FT index
“I used to see her all the time in Aberdeen, and putting across her Tory views in the papers.”
Is she the same Tory that used to complain about Saltires and had one taken down (in was in Stonehaven I think) and would always fly the UJ from her office?
Better Together were aware of Amanda Harvie’s appearance on Newsnicht. Strange that.
link to twitter.com
She seems to have quickly forgotten this bit of text in claiming to be ‘Independent’ from party politics :
“As your MP, I promise I will listen to you and act on your concerns. I also promise to uphold the highest standards of professionalism and integrity in everything I do to represent you – in the same way that I have done throughout my career.”
Text taken from campaign leaflet image at top of article.
Max says:
‘Plenty of juicy bits here.
link to conservativehome.blogs.com‘
God, not only is she wearing the same suit/jaiket, the second pic is over 3 years old! Times is hard in Scottish Torydom.
“God, not only is she wearing the same suit/jaiket, the second pic is over 3 years old! Times is hard in Scottish Torydom.”
For a successful businesswoman, she does only seem to own the one suit:
link to farm5.staticflickr.com
Anne Gloag
groans
@Cath
“Is she the same Tory that used to complain about Saltires and had one taken down (in was in Stonehaven I think) and would always fly the UJ from her office?”
That rings a bell but I can’t find anything on it. I forgot she was based in Stonehaven for a while. Here’s a funny story in the P&J about this businesswoman failing to get any support from, erm, businesses, for her Conservative ambitions:
link to pressandjournal.co.uk
Interesting that both of the Unionist supporters spoke with English accents and both of the Independance supporters spoke with Scottish accents!
Richard Lucas – “A Google reveals that Kainde Manji works in important areas such as violence prevention and ending gender discrimination in areas like pay. Why does she compromise her integrity by siding with a Tory fibber on a TV programme debating an issue that has no direct bearing on her important work?”
Call me a cynic, but I suspect Ms Manji is only really involved in such areas to further her political career, which is why those sort of public sector/third sector roles seem to be dominated by political wannabes, particularly Labour ones. It’s a nice thing to put on the CV when trying to get elected, showing you have an outstanding record of public service in the voluntary sector etc.
She came 3rd in the Aberdeen South Election 2010 and then promptly disappeared. Resurfaced as part of the right wing Scottish Think Tank ‘Reform’ which is supposedly non-political….haha.
For those old enough to remember – Do you see the resemblance to Cleo Laine?
“For those old enough to remember – Do you see the resemblance to Cleo Laine?”
I do, although more to Labour’s Elaine Murray. Similar jiggly head, too. I wonder if they’ve ever been pictured together?
Horacesaysyes said:
“The fact that she’s wearing the same outfit is just comedy gold! lol”
Tory Merida knows how to keep her fans happy and refuses to be part of the Disney makeover.
As there are two Andy Gorams, so it must be the case that in Ms Harvie’s head there are two Amandas, both with an appalling taste in clothes and hair styles.
If a commentator has ever had any connection with the SNP no matter how long ago it is always emphasised at the beginning of the broadcast when they are introduced
We had a special name for people who wore the same clothes day in, day out …… and they weren’t called Tories.
This one is a wee cracker.
She really does sook off the tit this one.
link to en.wikipedia.org
‘We had a special name for people who wore the same clothes day in, day out’
Policemen? 🙂
She may have bought a job lot of those suits and actually has 10 of them.
The Tory involved in the flag incident in Stonehaven incident was called Wendy Agnew.The local Tories had a real problem with the Saltire.
Perhaps we can have a Spot The Tory competition.
Thanks for the link to her e-mail. Just popped this off
How about not lying about your party affiliations on national tv. Do you think the public has zips up the back of their heads. Oh, and maybe a wee change of wardrobe would help. I don’t expect you’ll apologise as you are obviously better than we mortals but you can be sure that your face and quotes will be on more than your election leaflets at the next election.
@matos 21
If a commentator has ever had any connection with the SNP no matter how long ago it is always emphasised at the beginning of the broadcast when they are introduced.
Correct. Alf Young used to be involved in Scottish Labour, and is a die-hard Unionist. However, whenever he appears in the MSM, particularly BBC Scotland, this is never pointed out, or referred to. See also Professor Midwinter…The SNP eventually got so fed up with this that they pointed out Midwinter’s SLAB links.
In 2007 just prior to the Scottish Parliament elections Amanda Harvie was appointed by the Scottish Conservatives as head of the party’s Media Response Unit. Ms Harvie was seen by the Tories then as a rising star within the party. So Amanda Harvie would have good contacts with the Scottish media. Were they maintained and in what way?
There is an inkling that Jackie Bird and Amanda Harvie are well known to each other. Was this the basis for the invite on Newsnicht?
I know we all need some light relief from time to time, but slagging off this woman as being a ‘mink’ because she possibly has a favorite outfit, does not represent the ideals I thought we were struggling to support.
I’m not just saying this because I’m a spoilsport or wish to be controversial. These are ‘cheap shots’ that do nothing to progress the cause.
The important issue is the BBC’s deceit and Ms. Harvie’s complicity in misrepresenting her status. If I bought something and it didn’t do what it said on the tin, I may have recourse to the Sale of Goods Act 1979. What can you do here? Well as the BBC appears to be a law unto themselves, the only option available to me was to stop buying the BBC product.
“I know we all need some light relief from time to time, but slagging off this woman as being a ‘mink’ because she possibly has a favorite outfit, does not represent the ideals I thought we were struggling to support.”
I’m confused. The only place I can find that word is in your comment.
There are quite a few closet Tories lurking around the councils of Scotland. Many of them have been moderately successful, posing as “independents”. A reliable way of exposing them is to raise the saltire. As previous posters have mentioned, they seem to have an aversion to our true national flag. It seems to bring the worst in them. They are not nice creatures.
Max: There is an inkling that Jackie Bird and Amanda Harvie are well known to each other. Was this the basis for the invite on Newsnicht?
So the BBC would seem to be complicit in the deception?
Cameron
I would agree, it may simply be her favourite for big occasions and only gets an occasional outing. As a bloke I certainly wouldn’t be off buying a new suit every time something a bit more important comes along. The suit’s only value is in that it makes it easier to identifty she is that non-political, non-affiliated Conservative candidate.
It is actually quite a nice business suit.
Reminds me of The SImpsons when Marge has one fake Chanel Suit and uses it in different styles to appear at different social functions.
One suit, many faces sounds an apt motto
Reform Scotland is a company limited by guarantee (No SC336414) and a Scottish charity (No SC039624) funded by individuals, charitable trusts, companies and organisations that share its aims.
So, no tax paid then?
I thought that last night’s Newsnight special was excellent and that OUR TWO handled themselves extremely well. Jackie Bird – regardless of her personal politics – did a very good job, and the audience was engaged and intelligent. Unlike the total shambles that was Dumblebody’s Question Time fiasco last week.
Did not Ms.Harvie keep claiming to be a successful business owner / woman who just knew that Independence would destroy her international customer base? I thought that she meant her business actually produced and exported Made in Scotland – sorry UK – products and not just Hot Air Tory Consultations. She came off as a typical snobby Tory and the Labour muppet came over as just another – well – Labour muppet.
I just wish someone had asked the 2NO’ers about the years of lies and deceit from consecutive unionist governments over the McCrone report…
I have thought for quite some time that it would be an excellent project for a budding investigative journalist to produce a mapping of all the interconnections between BBC Scotland and all the politicians and mouthpieces involved in the Great Debate.
Hail Alba
To shine a light on the other side for a moment, I was quite impressed with Jeanne Freeman – she spoke eloquently and had an excellent grasp of the issues. And it was refreshing not to have a debate where individuals are talking over the others – some credit to Jackie Bird there I think.
Apologies to any Culture Club fans out there:
——————————————————-
There’s a lying in your eyes all the way.
If I listened to your lies would you say
You’re a woman without conviction,
You’re a woman who doesn’t know
How to sell a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.
Tory Tory Tory Tory chameleon,
You come and go, you come and go.
Life would be easy if your colours were like your dreams,
Red white and blue, red white and blue.
Didn’t hear your wicked words every day
And you used to be so sweet, I heard you say
Tory love, is an addiction.
When you cling, your love is strong.
When you go, make it forever.
You string along, you string along.
Tory Tory Tory Tory chameleon,
You come and go, you come and go.
Loving would be easy if your colours were like your dreams,
Red white and blue, red white and blue.
Every day is like survival,
You’re just a Tory pest, not my rival.
Every day is like survival,
You’re just a Tory pest, not my rival.
You’re a woman without conviction,
You’re a woman who doesn’t know
How to sell a contradiction.
You come and go, you come and go.
Tory Tory Tory Tory chameleon,
You come and go, you come and go.
Life would be easy if your colours were like my dreams,
Red white and blue, red white and blue.
————————————————–
Cameron B said
“These are ‘cheap shots’ that do nothing to progress the cause.”
I agree, slagging off her suit and hair isn’t helpful. Slagging off her lying and deceitfulness is more than sufficient. Fat Alec isn’t cogent analysis either!
Only 15% of WOS is female, and cheap shots at her appearance won’t increase it.
Signed
A woman.
Mind you, the jaiket doesn’t hang quite as loose as it did in the election leaflet. Maybe she hasn’t just been telling porkie pies?
Never mind the poor lassiies jacket will be on a shoogly peg after next September
O/T: “HP Sacks English Employees to bag Scots Job cash”
link to channelregister.co.uk
check out the comments. entertaining. If this is what a reasonably intelligent readership (mostly IT folks) think then there’s no hope for us.
Sandy
If we secure a Yes vote next year I fully expect (assuming Cameron doesn’t declare martial law and have us thrown in the nick) that the Better Together mob will re-group and desperately place themselves in a position to win 2016 so that they can dictate what sort of independent Scotland we are going to have. That will be our next big battle, ensuring that having obtained a Yes vote we don’t end up with a Toom Tabard Holyrood.
I don’t think weed need worry about a right wing government. In other countries where major reform have taken place the party that intoduced them were in power for a generation.(e.g. social democrats in Sweden)
What annoyed me about Amanda was her repeated assertion that Scotlands £46m trade with the rUK would disappear overnight if we voted Yes. I kept hoping that either of the Yes panelllists would challenge her but they didn’t. She also threw in a throw-away about border controls. But fair play to the Newsnight Scotland team that was one of the most balanced and sensible debates yet. Their earlier one with the panel/audience of “non-Scots” was good too.
Yet more people asking for information and Elaine C Smiths comment/question to the audience about where they get their information was well made.
It was deceitful of the BBC in presenting this woman as a business consultant and former chief executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise when they must have been fully aware of her affiliations to the Tory Party, her failed election aspirations and of her closeness to Cameron and Osborne. Perhaps the BBC felt her gravitas would have been diminished had they been honest about her political antecedent history?
She was just as deceitful herself by going along with the charade that she was a neutral businesswoman who did not speak for any political party. I wonder, what would have been the reaction in the studio if a member of the audience had ‘outed’ her?
Next Question Time, the First Minister could go on dressed as a highland cow called Dairy I. Freedom, with no affiliation to the yes campaign, and N Sturgeon could also appear pretending to be windmill from the borders with no spin on the referendum.
<SIGNS IN>
Agrees with Panda Paws
<SIGNS OUT>
I know many minks, they make wonderful jackets.
I’m confused. The only place I can find that word is in your comment.
Not wanting to point fingers, or derail the discussion, but there had been a suggestion that this was her only outfit. Or as I interpreted it, she’s a mink. You can take the lad out off Dundee…… 🙂
Re. jacket, the title of the piece is ‘A brilliant disguise’. Ms Harvey pretended to be politically non-aligned, and yet here we have pics of her in all her Toryness with the same jacket. It’s relevant and funny.
Kenny Farquharson is feeling unwell. Again.
Kenny Farquharson @KennyFarq
I see SNP has taken to issuing press releases about the English NHS, and pointing out Scottish NHS is devolved. #duh
I can only assume this aims to give the deliberately misleading impression that SNP is somehow “protecting” us from the evil English.
@Charnoski Ah, my mistake, I thought the English were to blame because they don’t share “Scottish values”.
link to mobile.twitter.com
Maybe it was her jaiket that was politically non-aligned.
Press releases of hate.
“Successive UK governments have asset stripped and dismantled NHS England.
“Labour have abandoned the principle of universality and the NHS is sadly not exempt from that, as their leader Ed Miliband has already admitted.
“While health policy in Scotland is already effectively independent, and the SNP Government’s commitment to a public healthcare system is unwavering, Scotland is still at the mercy of Westminster’s retreat from a public NHS via the Barnett formula funding system.
link to snp.org
Kenny obviously hasn’t noticed what the Coalition are doing to the English NHS (or perhaps he approves).
If she had come out and said she was a Tory, I would have had no problem with that, and it would have explained everything. Dear me, even Tories are afraid to admit they’re Tories now. I suppose they were trying to avoid the familiar well-kent political faces (and she is not well-kent and we should be thankful for that)
As for her suit, I sigh at the clumsy cheap shots! Come on guys….
She seemed slightly neurotic to me!
Just to clarify my position, it is “a brilliant disguise” (snigger).
callum says:
18 June, 2013 at 1:23 pm
O/T: “HP Sacks English Employees to bag Scots Job cash”
link to channelregister.co.uk
check out the comments. entertaining.
This is nothing new. Companies move work to Scotland all the time because the workforce is cheaper, just like they move work from London to Birmingham to save money.
Its the BBC playing tricks again as they must have known her background.
Jamie Arriere
As for her suit, I sigh at the clumsy cheap shots! Come on guys….
I agree Jamie, however, Ms Harvie made several cheap shots herself regarding an Independent Scotland. Most of her arguments have been well and truly busted, it’s unfortunate that many of her audience were not as well informed as we are and she took full advantage of that fact to spread the usual NoBT bullshit.
Re: the suit, I am sure you will agree it’s pretty minor in comparison to what our FM suffers on a daily basis.
Maybe she used her old suit in order to look more ordinary, you know, more an ordinary people person.
She might have got away with that, but then she opened her mouth and spewed out the usual Unionist fear strategies!
GAME OVER!
Amanda Harvie
aka
Parasiticus politicus
How do you like that, I bridged two threads
Well don’t do it again. 🙂
Roddy- FFS comments about her wieght! would you have done that if it was a man? Too many comments regarding her jacket. Let’s get with the programme and back to the politics.
The suit comments hint towards one of the biggest grievances I have with workplace attire, because the only reason we notice she’s wearing the same outfit is because there’s no standardised generic work uniform expected of women. As a man, I’m expected to go to work each day wearing a pair of itchy trousers and a shirt, like I’m back at school or something. Meanwhile, the women in the office get away with wearing pretty much whatever they want (within reason, obviously).
If there’s one thing that could convince me to vote No in the referendum, it would be a promise to make it illegal to compel men in non-public-facing roles to wear a shirt and trousers. That and shorter working hours. It bemuses me that in the 21st century, we still think it’s necessary to work the same hours we worked before computers existed, wearing the same glorified school uniform we’ve always worn.
(Well, not really, but it wouldn’t happen anyway.)
Sandy Armstrong
Its the BBC playing tricks again as they must have known her background.
It may be that thing where the BBC know it doesn`t look good to a Scottish audience to have both Labour and Conservative sharing the same views; hence the lack of ‘detailed’ introduction for Amanda Harvie. Labour and Tories – political peas in a pod.
Nothing I can add except to say that I don’t find it at all amusing that the Tory git lied about being non-partisan. Harvie is a scumbag – but a scumbag sanctioned by the BBC who will have known her history. The BBC are the major scumbags of this national debate – their concealment of Jimmy Saville et al. is proof enough of the corruption at the heart of that organisation.
Their pushing their own political agenda is stazi in nature and this lot need reported to as many human rights organisations around the world as possible.
The TV is the major medium through which most voters will get their info – that BBC BritNat prism is poison.
Poison.
Sneddon
It was a wee joke. In the face of such a brazen harridan who obviously thinks the Scottish people are the crew of the proverbial Clyde banana boat, do we really have to be as po-faced and PC as a Hampstead RedTory dinner party?
P.S. I’ve just bought 6 Melton Mowbray mini pork pies and am not a 32″ waist masel.
She didn’t say she was neutral, she stated that she doesn’t speak for BT or any political party. Let’s stop being so ready to get outraged, eh? We will win the debate without petty squabbles.
Doug Daniel;
I would like it more if men were allowed to wear women’s clothing to work.
To paraphrase another famous jaiket owner, Arthur Montford, ” Disaster for Ms Harvie”.
You can never go wrong with checks, especially on an old black and white TV.
Porkus Pious reductus maximus.
Godd old uncle Nigel Farage telling scary stories over on the scotsman about how Scotland will starve under independence, wwhhhooooooo
To Atypical_Scot…
Why cant we all just get sarong…
A Brilliant Disguise….anyone else going to see Bruce Springsteen tonight. I look forward to seeing loads of No voters sing along to his anti capitalism rants
Desimond;
A kilt?
John King;
link to telegraph.co.uk
@ Doug Daniel
Maybe you could take fashion tips from Swedish train drivers? Or experiment with colour?
Where did Nigel Farage get that tie from?
The UKIP leader definitely needs a bit of Gok Wan.
So who are the best and worst dressed in the YES and NO camps?
Nigelus Faragus scrota est.
However, Mr Farage has decided to visit the country again to argue that Scottish independence would lead to a “bankrupt, starving Scotland”.
I think there might be cause to call for this guy to be sectioned. For his own and others protection, which is a valid justification for such a drastic measure.
Doug – it’s our punishment for not having proper jobs, like fireman or mechanic or something. Personally I quite like wearing the same boring stuff every single day, means I don’t have to think about it.
As for Amanda Harvie, wearing the same jacket in every public appearance might be an indication of good breeding – its the sort of thing the posh do, the normal sartorial rules don’t count if you inherit your furniture. Another sign of good breeding, is to not mention a lady’s appearance, which would make Cameron B the only gentleman on this thread – shame he has then given the game away by admitting being from Dundee 🙂
🙂
I note that Herr Farage has entitled his we bit in the Herald
Agenda: An alternative option to constitutional debate
I guess that means is this is how it will be when we run the whelk stall; no debate.
Roddy -‘mini pork pies’ Aye but for breakfast 🙂
A Tory pretending not to be a Tory, its like New Labour all over again.
“She didn’t say she was neutral, she stated that she doesn’t speak for BT or any political party. Let’s stop being so ready to get outraged, eh? We will win the debate without petty squabbles.”
At *very* best, you could have the tiniest point, but sorry, when the programme has as much form for imbalance and when the BBC never fails to mention even the slightest SNP connection any contributor to their programming has, then sorry… your point is lost in a flood of evidence to the contrary.
She is a prospective Tory candidate and actually works for the party (in a roundabout way). To suggest neutrality in *any* way is just farce.
As for outrage? I see not ‘outrage’ on this thread… a lot of piss taking but no outrage.
Re: Minks
In case you were unaware Rev. – mink is a Dundee/Aberdeen contraction of the word Minker – a sort of portmanteau word bridging Manky and Tinker.
A friend of mine for a brief time fronted a band called the Jasmine Minks – the name derived from Jasmine Terrace in Aberdeen where (allegedly) all the Minkers dwelled
“A friend of mine for a brief time fronted a band called the Jasmine Minks – the name derived from Jasmine Terrace in Aberdeen where (allegedly) all the Minkers dwelled”
Blimey! I remember the Jasmine Minks from the heyday of Creation, but had no idea of the derivation of the name.
@ Gizzit
Just as well I didn’t use ‘fizzy’ instead of mink, as in fizzy drink. 🙂
Just for interest’s sake from 2010:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100430132500/http://www.conservatives.com/People/Prospective_Parliamentary_Candidates/Harvie_Amanda.aspx
I think it was a slight but important misrepresentation of this lady to claim no affiliation to a political party and therefore allsmall proportion of her claims not to bequestioned or understood by the audience……..better together does of course involve Tories and labour standing shoulder to shoulder, it is extremely misleading (and telling) thattheirs programme was usedrot hide this fact from the audience and therefore change the implications and background of tper statements made……hoodwinking the public.
Atypical_Scot says:
18 June, 2013 at 3:29 pm
Doug Daniel;
I would like it more if men were allowed to wear women’s clothing to work.
ooooerr missus
Didn’t see the start of the debate, and it doesn’t appear to be on iPlayer yet (not for iPad anyway), did Elaine C. Smith mention that she’s plugged for the SNP before, or did she say she was non-aligned?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SQ5h5hzLioE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSQ5h5hzLioE%26feature%3Dyoutu.be
“did Elaine C. Smith mention that she’s plugged for the SNP before, or did she say she was non-aligned?”
She said she wasn’t a party member.
Well, fuktus meus – punk Latin, beloved of the old makars, is back again. I think it was Henryson who described a rival as ‘plookity arstus’.
My kids are always telling me I’m a mink. I thought it was a compliment, something like ‘real cool dude’. Till now. Thanks for nothing, WoS.
@ Colin Dunn,
Don’t remember how she was introduced, she did make it clear that she had come from the Labour left, but had made her way to her current thinking – voting Yes in 2013.
Nigel Farage’s claims about what happened on the Canongate are getting more exaggerated the farther away from events we get. By next week, he’ll be saying the FM attacked him from a helicopter. Fisherman tales, where the fish gets bigger as the years go on.
For heavens sake, is there footage from the C4 News coverage we can share to counteract this?
I was on the Canongate – in my guise as tour bus guide, as it happens. Journalists easily outnumbered everyone else present 2:1, so why is he getting away with these ridiculous claims?
Because AnneDon
It makes a story that could help sell more newspapers.
I always thought that they were supposed to report the news and inform us but, they make it up and have been doing so for yonks. We just never had the internet to allow up access to the other side of what they tell us is the truth.
Her jacket is only of significance as corroboration that she was the Tory candidate in the leaflet. That it is on a shoogly nail or that it smells minky distracts from the barefaced deception that she perpetrated. That the BBC must know her CV (gosh that is Latin for something) is but another example of how they are complicit in The NO Campaign of lies!
Sorry to cut in so late but if Richard Lucas is correct when he says “Of itself, Independence has no direct effect on women’s issues. ” then the YES campaign is doomed. It is among women where – apparently and according to most polls – that the YES campaign has had the least positive resonance.So-called “women’s issues” are very often children’s, family and social security issues. In most western countries more than 50% of the population is female and they are also more likely to vote and thus any party or movement ignores them at its peril. The participants in Wings are also overwhelmingly male. Would it not be a good idea for all who want Scotland to take that which she desperately needs and deserves to focus less on re-convincing the already convinced and address themselves to the concerns of the deepest doubters? Kevin McKenna made a good suggestion about a children’s charter for an independent Scotland – did anyone respond to that? When the YES campaign mount scare campaigns about the future of social security you can be sure that it is women that they are targeting. Wings provides a wonderful service in exposing the lies of the “No” sayers but are women getting the message?
link to heraldscotland.com
I’m wondering if Yes talked about internal polling deliberately.
If they just released stuff, BT would go ‘Oh but you would do that wouldn’t you. Yeh, yeh, it’s your own poll so of course it’s biased’.
If Yes are put under pressure to release, then the release is at the behest of the pro-union campaign. It is them that got it published in effect. It would then make BT look silly if the results were increasingly tending to Yes as they asked for it.
As far as ‘you must publish poll results if you talk about them‘. That’s not true. Yes have not reported any numbers, just made some comments on trends they claim to see. That in no way requires full tables to be published. Even if they said they had a poll from Panelbase showing 50% Yes 30% No, it would be Panelbase that should release the full tables as a member of the BPC, not Yes. Panelbase could say no, but then the BPC might intervene and say ‘You are off the BPC unless you do so’ if they felt the tables needed publishing.
Whether you publish full tables or not is up to you. You could just find yourself ousted from the BPC which in theory loses you credibility.
Oh, and we might be asking where are the pro-union campaign internal poll results.
Surely with everyone falling in love with the union and the Tories/UKIP/Blue Labour etc we should have loads of BT commissioned poll results showing support for the union sky-rocketing?
They are doing them too.
You can tell from the increasing hysteria.
if Richard Lucas is correct when he says “Of itself, Independence has no direct effect on women’s issues. ” then the YES campaign is doomed. It is among women where – apparently and according to most polls – that the YES campaign has had the least positive resonance.So-called “women’s issues” are very often children’s, family and social security issues.
Of itself, independence has no direct effect on children’s, family and social security issues.
I quite enjoyed the programme, it’s good to see women engaging in the debate in a constructive way. I thought Elaine and Jeane were very good and found the other two wafflingly irrelevant. But then I would say that! I also noticed that the audience question about a written constitution came from a Labour parliamentary researcher.
Anyone catch Cameron’s remark just now on Road to Referendum?
Is Michael Kelly the biggest blowhard buffoon ever? What gives him the right to denigrate the influence, or otherwise, of fine nations such as Lithuania and Finland?
muttley79 says:
18 June, 2013 at 8:52 pm
Anyone catch Cameron’s remark just now on Road to Referendum?
Aye, the furriner gambit yet again.
Muttley
What Prime Minster of England?
I really enjoyed that by the way. Thank goodness Donald Findlay is on the No side though.
@HandandShrimp
What Prime Minster of England?
I really enjoyed that by the way. Thank goodness Donald Findlay is on the No side though.
Yes, he did not look terribly concerned as the prospect of being PM of England did he? Smiling and looking decidedly unbothered by the whole thing… Do Scottish Unionists seriously think Cameron is giving the appearance of somebody who is concerned if Scotland votes Yes?
Frazer Allan Whyte
100% agree with you there that the Yes campaign need to make a better effort to target women. If you have ideas on this issue you should contact the Yes campaign HQ with your ideas. That goes to everyone who visits this site. If you think the Yes side should be doing this or that let them of you ideas, criticism and things you like.
Muttley
I thought the Welsh and Irish might have undertaken a double take at the comment. Are they coming with us?
OT
Re. Coulson news embargo being lifted about his court appearance, can anyone provide a link to the video of Tommy Sheridan predicting that it was inevitable that some others would follow him into Barlinnie?
Of itself, independence has no direct effect on children’s, family and social security issues. Sorry Jiggsbro I have to disagree with your statement. independence is directly the key to better choices for chuildren and families and the wider social welfare context. My reasoning is without the ability to control these areas we might as well go home. Many people are voting YES because they want a better country. more of the same neo liberal bullshit after independence is unthinkable. And these issues aren’t just for women to consider either. Womens issues are mens issues as well (On reflection I could have phrased that better but it’s late 🙂 )
Rock on Tommy, this Coulson news is the biggest story for months.
Found the ‘mink’ posts mildly interesting. I know it’s in common use through the Stirling – Falkirk – Banknock areas and has been as long as I can remember. If you hear a word fairly often you just assume without thinking it’s universal in lowland Scots.
John Gibson
Just like the word ‘fleg’ isn’t universal either but used by everyone here in Dundee.
Haven’t seen the final ‘Road to Referendum’ yet – did it make any mention of McCrone?
ianbrotherhood
Sorry Ian, No.
Aye Jingly – big news and possibly another big payout for Tam like the last one he never received.
Ian
I think the thing that did come across is that it is hard to cover the last 40 years of Scottish and UK political history in three programmes. There was no padding and there was a lot more that could have been said. It was good and it was very evenly balanced with both sides getting their say….probably why Foulkes wanted it off the air.
@Marcia-
Thanks for letting me know so quickly.
All of a sudden I’m really not that bothered about seeing the final part of what was a very enjoyable series.
If McWhirter believes that he can present some authoritative-sounding account of this process without mentioning something so crucial then he’s having a giraffe.
It would be like sitting through a three-hour Poirot Christmas special, then discovering that the unveiling of the killer hasn’t been recorded.
Shame on you McWhirter – now it makes sense why Kirsty Wark was happy to pose with you for a promo shot in today’s Herald.
Sorry Jiggsbro I have to disagree with your statement.
Well, you’re wrong. Independence will not – of itself – change anything other than who makes the decisions. We have no way of knowing what those decisions will be. We don’t know what parties and what policies will contest our first free elections, because that’s what independence means: the freedom to be different or to choose to be the same. Independence is an opportunity to make better choices and worse choices but it does not bring about better outcomes of itself. It just brings about ownership of the choices, good or bad.
@HandandShrimp-
Fair do’s. I’m sure it’ll have plenty of interesting footage and high drama, but – McCrone is the dirty secret which has only very recently started to gain some traction with the wider public, and McWhirter knows it. To ignore it completely is despicable.
Perhaps he alluded to it in some way? A wee coded message for those ‘in-the-know’?
I’ll have to wait and see it online, but from what you and Marcia have said? I’m gutted. The man has not done his job at a time when he had a huge responsibility (some might even call it a ‘duty’) to be on his best-ever form – by the sounds of it, he’s failed.
Feeling very gloomy now. Last week we had Riddoch ‘coming-out’ – that was a big ladder up. Now we’ve hit one of the big fat laughing snakes and are way, way back down.
Sad stuff.
Jiggsbro- I think your being pedantic (not that its a crime) but when I discuss independance I’m not talking about constitutional issues with people I’m talking about the potential that independance gives us and relate it to people’s situations and aspirations. But yeah strictly speaking of itself etc. anyway from the Guardin article on his Aberdeen visit.
‘After an intense debate with Farage about his views on sharia law and the status of Norway in the EU, a bearded young man was detained after spraying a drink at the retreating back of a Ukip official.’
Hmmmm….reminds me of….no it couldn’t be… wasting a drink on that idiot.
@Jiggsbro
Absolutely agree. Independence gives US the choice – dependency leaves those choices with Westminster. It really is as simple as that. If we want a different society than the one pursued by Westminster, then after Independence we will have to elect parties and individuals that will try to ensure that new society. And if they don’t we can throw them out. Just now, that option is denied us.
Sorry forgot to add link to Gaurdian article
link to guardian.co.uk
Ian
McCrone is important but it is just one element of the case for independence. The programme has added to the debate and in a good way. It is light years ahead of anything that the BBC has done.
Henry McLeish was on I think he will be next in line for a blast from Foulkes.
What struck me was the sane sensible progressive voices in favour. Iain Banks, Stuart Cosgrove, Elaine C Smith, Pat Kane and so on up against Donald Findlay, Michael Kelly and the like.
I thought Amanda had a nice pair of legs and was a bit of a turn on. BUT I’ll not let that turn my political views on their heid. Aye I’ll still be voting YES.
Nobody got that link from Sheridan predicting Coulson in the dock then?
I’m really fucking disgusted at this dishonest dodgy arsehole. She knows fine well what she is doing and that it is misleading and dishonest and there’s no way around it.
If you’ll pardon my french. So fed up with these scumbags twisting, cheating and lying all the time. AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT EVERY SINGLE TIME IN THE MEDIA AND PUBLIC! Every time their lips move I have to assume it’s lies until proven otherwise. They know they cannot win an honest fight so they will be dirty, cheating, lying no good scumbags all the way. They will keep bloody doing it as they know lying works and they know the media will not catch them out and they’ll get away with it. So frustrating to see the worst of politics floating to the top instead of the cream…
“For a successful businesswoman, she does only seem to own the one suit:
link to farm5.staticflickr.com“
To be fair the charity shops round her bit are a bit rubbish, I hear.
@HandandShrimp-
I’m not falling-out with you over this, but I’m fucking fuming.
I don’t doubt it was ‘light years ahead of anything the BBC has done’, but damning the thing with faint praise doesn’t detract from the fact that the McCrone report represents prima facie evidence of conspiracy and deceit on a scale which is, in itself, utterly scandalous.
Imagine there was no referendum in the offing: the recent revelations from Healey, Steele etc would be completely ignored.
FFS – it takes the Sunday Post to break a major story like this? And Henry McLeish should come away from this with any credit? Do you imagine for a nano-second that that cushion-warmer didn’t ‘have sight’ of McCrone even prior to becoming FM?
Something else to consider – these telly-series take a long time to plan and produce (especially if they’re being timed to coincide with the simultaneous release of a major publication) so it’s likely that the Healey interview happened after the whole thing was safely in the can and scheduled for broadcast.
Does that mean McWhirter wasn’t every bit as aware of McCrone and it’s seismic potential when he was attending story-boarding sessions with the people at STV/Herald and doing the final proofs for the book? (Check the credits in the Introduction to Road to Referendum which is currently available free as a Kindle sampler via Amazon.)
But he simply had to excise whatever he’d scripted because of time limitations? (Perhaps he’s devoted a whole chapter to it in the book?) Or are we to believe that he didn’t write anything about it at all?
Naw.
He knew about it alright, and has done for a lot longer than most of us. It just wasn’t ‘in the news’ when he was polishing his magnum opus.
Pull the other one McWhirter.
A ‘professional journalist’? He had the all raw material right there – all the ingredients for a major, once-in-a-lifetime game-changing scoop.
And he bottled it.
What a total fucking shame.
Aye, how do we make a case for the YES campaign a realistic and positive idea to women? I am quite surprised given the shocking attack on carers/parents and the disabled etc by the westminster lot, which actually affects women massively, as well as their backward stance on women’s wages and equality regards employment, etc…
On the subject of whatshernames suit, it’s dull. Suits are really very dull, time to ditch the itchy ( urgh) constricting, ‘I am important you are not’ uniform, it’s just so yesterday…it would be great to see some diverse, innovative, and creative smartish clothing…without the pomp! Suits just do not make people intelligent, though they think they do! Doh!
Absolutely agree. Independence gives US the choice – dependency leaves those choices with Westminster. It really is as simple as that. If we want a different society than the one pursued by Westminster, then after Independence we will have to elect parties and individuals that will try to ensure that new society. And if they don’t we can throw them out. Just now, that option is denied us.
And that right there is a plus for women’s issues. Look at Westminster right now: 146 out of 650 MPs are women, just over a fifth (22%), compared to half of the entire country. In Holyrood, it’s 49 out of 125 – just over a third (35%). It’s fallen since 2003’s 40% high, but a third is a lot closer to half than a fifth is.
An independent Scotland means that, if we continue our trend of voting in more women than the UK as a whole does, we could have a government more representative of the women of Scotland by a pretty wide margin than Westminster does currently. Who knows, after the referendum, maybe Nicola could be the first Prime Minister/President/Toiseach of an independent democratic Scotland: wouldn’t that be cool?
Ianbrotherhood,
I agree about the McCrone Report, it was the very thing that made me change and take an interest in politics – not to mention hate Westminster with a vengeance.
Whilst I realise not everyone will be so easily influenced as I was, it proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that Conservative and Labour don’t give a stuff about Scotland.
Pity we couldn’t get Diomhair available on DVD, I’d happily contribute to that.
I finally watched that independence debate yesterday, and through everything that has been said about it, it was fairly good towards the YES campaign by both the panelists and audience.
but one thing I did notice was that during the final statements by the panel was that the third speaker ‘Amanda Harvie’ was the only one who did not get any applause from the audience, am I correct or not ?
Hail Alba.
I noticed that too, Davy.
Can someone please give me the name of the lady from Women for Independence, sorry but couldn’t pick up anything more than Jean?
Thought she was excellent btw.
Cheers
@Shinty
Jeanne Freeman
Hetty
how do we make a case for the YES campaign a realistic and positive idea to women?
Erm – appoint Nichola Sturgeon as the Scottish Constitutional minister?
@ Albert Herring
Many thanks
[…] Wings Over Scotland […]
Lesley Rogers was in the audience on Monday. She asked me to pass on her blog about that night, and Scottish Independence. link to lesleyrodgers.co.uk
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