60 seconds into the future
The Scottish press has reacted in a fairly typical manner to the release yesterday of a Scottish Government-commissioned report on the implications of independence on welfare, which is to say by finding the most doom-laden interpretation of it possible.
Leading the charge is the Daily Record, with a piece that online goes by the relatively restrained headline “Undoing hated Con-Dem cuts could could put all benefit payments at risk, SNP are warned” (though the print version screams “SNP TOLD YOU CAN’T CUT TORY CUTS”). The Scotsman follows along with “SNP welfare plan ‘a risk’”.
Both, though, are telling a deeply – and obviously – misleading story.
Conversely, the Herald’s assessment was “Benefits could switch easily after a Yes vote, say SNP expert group” – although the story subsequently reveals that the group was in fact nothing to do with the SNP, comprising independent analysts including Darra Singh (former chief executive of JobCentre Plus), Martyn Evans (chief executive of the Carnegie Trust), Douglas Griffin (former finance director at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde) and Mike Brewer (research fellow at the Institute of Fiscal Studies).
So why the discrepancy?
The reason is that the report is in essence overwhelmingly positive. Noting that much of the UK’s welfare infrastructure is already in Scotland, it highlights the relative ease of setting up a Scottish equivalent of the DWP, while pointing out the obvious fact that it would make sense for Scotland and the rUK to co-operate closely during the transition period to minimise disruption.
So far so rational, then. But the Scottish press is heavily invested in portraying independence as an impossibly daunting task unachievable by mere mortals (and also in turning every drama into a crisis in order to try to shore up its plunging sales), so a scarier angle was required and duly found.
The requisite fear was found by ignoring the fact that the report only suggested a joint administration of welfare for the transitional period. The Record and Scotsman blithely presented that situation as permanent, in order to pursue the fairly-new narrative that it isn’t worth bothering with independence because it won’t actually change anything.
Thus, the Record was able to rubbish the hugely popular SNP pledge (which the Record actually agrees with) to abolish the bedroom tax and other coalition “reforms” in an independent Scotland, and both papers could warn that Scottish welfare policy would have to follow that of the UK or the entire system would collapse.
But wait a minute. Even if Scotland and the rUK were to decide to run welfare administration jointly for all time – which absolutely nobody is in fact suggesting – why would it be impossible to set different rules for different areas? After all, isn’t that precisely what both George Osborne and Ed Balls are currently proposing to do with regional benefit levels?
After a No vote, Scots face the prospect of paying the same taxes as people in the south-east of England but getting lower rates of benefits in return. We know this because it was revealed all of a week ago in… the Daily Record. So clearly it IS already possible for the welfare system to apply different rules and payments to claimants in different parts of the UK, even under sole Westminster control.
We’re sure the Scottish media used to put a bit more effort into its scaremongering than this. Is it just our imagination, or are they not really trying any more?
https://www.frostedflakes.us/tony-the-tiger
Folk have joked about it, but it’s surely just a matter of time before a headline simply says BOO!
“are they not really trying any more?”
They’re probably bored rigid of having to find a negative angle on every story every day.
Brewer on Newsnight was following his similar line of asking Nicola Sturgeon question and then talking straight over the top of her. He seems to be under the impression that the only system that works is the Westminster way, he is unable to get his head around the idea that there are many things that need to be done, Brewer would prefer clarity through ‘soundbites’ rather than any rational thought where a wide range of things are required to be done to encourage the environment which lets welfare become what we chose.
The press like this in simple black and white terms, yet refuse to listen when answers are given. Talking over the top of someone explaining things rationally only provides distraction from what is being said. Brewer acts like a real idiot sometimes, I just wish he would stop interrupting – its a poor interviewing technique, and Brewer is actually more intelligent than he sometimes tries to make out. Forty minutes would be better than the always to short twenty five allocated to Newsnight Scotland.
What we have to remember is that the Scottish Government, indeed the Scottish electorate are uniquely incapable of tying their own shoelaces without supervision. I personally have my own Westminster watchdog who ensures that I have enough toilet paper to wipe my arse with every time I go to the wee boys room.
Silly.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that legal action against the MSM should and could be an option post independence. It is surely morally wrong, if not against trading standards to print and sell misinformation that is designed to influence a democratic process. Freedom of the press is not a get out clause. They have a duty of care to publish facts.
@Craig M
Why only post independence? The MSM are demonstrably biased and if your average Joe believes everything they read we may never get independence.
Would it be possible for us to start some kind of lawsuit against them? The evidence is there and they publish more evidence against themselves every day…
“Talking over the top of someone explaining things rationally only provides distraction from what is being said. Brewer acts like a real idiot sometimes”
It’s not idiotic if your intention is to distract from what is being said.
I’ve grown so desperately tired of all the scare stories and the more they appear the less I believe, to the extent that if BT (or the Record/ Herald/Scotsman/BBC) came up with something truly gamechanging I would probably just sigh and ignore it.
Off topic a bit, I’ve been tracking the Facebook ‘likes’ for both BT and Yes thinking that folks aren’t pressured into clicking ‘like’ and it’s very interesting. The data when plotted shows that the BT ‘likes’ are pretty well flatlining and the Yes ‘likes’ climb steadily upward. I’ve only been collecting data for the last three weeks or so but averaging the respective totals since the campaign started shows that BT got an average of 126.0 ‘likes/day and Yes 159.3. Over the last three weeks BT has dropped to an average of 86.6 and yes risen to 353.0.
Not sure if that’s at all relevant but I find it interesting.
The “experts” on Scotland Tonight yesterday,claimed that the problem was that the IT systems (based in England) couldn’t operate more than one set of parameters at a time i.e. they can only handle UK benefit rates and not separate Scottish ones as well.This is intended to convey the impression that Scotland couldn’t do anything different from England,even if we wanted to without setting up our own IT systems.If this is true,Westminster is going to find it impossible to implement regional variations on benefit rates.Somehow I suspect that as usual,where there is a will there is a way and that this issue will be presented as a Scottish only problem should be decide to part company with Westminster.
They never fail to amuse and bemuse me. Here we have the Scottish Government effectively saying “we’ll be nice to rUK by letting them continue to use the administrative functions which are physically based in Scotland – and will therefore remain in Scotland after independence.”
This is a perfect example of the proper, grown-up approach being taken by the Scottish Government to independence. And what do we get? Petty, childish sniping as usual. Why bother, eh?
Maybe they should just release a report called “Ways In Which rUK Will Be Properly Shafted By Scotland Becoming Independent (GIRFUY LOLZ)” and be done with it…
if its so hard then how will they implement regional welfare benefits……as Labour and Tories support
Do these guys even bother to read these reports before making up such rubbish? The info that stood out for me is that Scotland’s share of the welfare system is 8.9%, not several orders of magnitude higher than our population share as we have been led to believe. Hmm… so we already have a lower benefit share pre tax-the-poor-and-make-them-wish-they’d-never-been-born ratbag policies.
But silly me, that’s within the warm bosom of the Union so obviously that means if thay dirty separatists vote yes, real term costs will suddenly go up exponentially and everyone will be living in caves with no telly – better vote no then.
BeamMeUpScotty – ah yes, the scary IT systems. “Ooooh, we can’t do stuff because they’d have to make changes to the IT systems!!!!”
What do people think us software developers get paid to do all day (other than read Wings, of course…)?
@ Angus McPhee,
I don’t subscribe to the notion that Brewer is biased – He enjoys treating all politicians with a high level of distain – no doubt due to spending years listening to them. He does frequently give non political guests more space to talk.
The main issue that I have is that Newsnight has only about twenty minutes to cover several subjects four times a week. When we do get an occasional 30 minute show, they are often far better.
Brewer does follow other media outlets in looking for answers from both sides of the Independence debate, but he has seems to want to get an exclusive on SNP/Yes Scotland policy following a Yes vote. He needs to slow down and let politicians speak and we need a program that is longer in duration to help facilitate that, otherwise it all to often resembles a shambles of 20 minutes of Scottish politics, four times a week. Newsnight (UK edition) has the space to do justice to many of the issues discussed and makes the Scottish edition look rather amateurish at the best of times. Sad as STV also are able to have a longer program that isn’t in a rush every night. Its the viewers that suffer and we pay for the service that we receive.
“I don’t subscribe to the notion that Brewer is biased – He enjoys treating all politicians with a high level of distain – no doubt due to spending years listening to them.”
Aye, that’s my view too. Like some of the Herald hacks especially (eg Paul Hutcheon), he seems consumed by hatred of the whole lot of them, which more “enthusiastic” indy types often mistake for Unionist bias.
@ Doug Danie,l
What do people think us software developers get paid to do all day (other than read Wings, of course…)?
Tweet?
link to i.imgur.com
Adrian B – well, until my work moved onto a different network with a draconian internet usage policy, I most certainly did tweet a bit. Now, I might as well not even have Twitter…
Our house used to buy the Record when I was wee but that stopped right around the time they dropped what was by far their best journalistic section – page 3! Haven’t bought it since.
I agree that Gordon Brewer is not biased (by BBC standards, at least). My impression is that he feels rather superior to many of his interviewees. Perhaps he is trying to be meaner and nastier than Paxman. With intellectual giants like Lamont and Sarwar doing the rounds, should we blame him?
I remember the days when the cybernat bratpack hung on Paul Hutcheon’s every word, because he was going after Bendy Wendy and her mates. They thought he was pro-SNP.
I recall seeing him on Newsnicht about that time, which was the first time I had any idea what he looked like, and it was absolutely obvious that he hated all politicians with a fiery passion. I remember thinking, quite soon now, son, you’re going to turn your sights on the Scottish government, and then some people are going to be terribly disillusioned.
Most of the I.T. systems that Westminster has used up to the present have mostly been an unmitigated disaster. Then if you look at the systems used in the past by the English NHS and the BBC a pattern begins to emerge.
According to Private Eye at any rate.
Brewer’s performance last night was about as unprofessional as they come – particularly when Nicola Sturgeon had just been aired on STV minutes earlier. In that interview she was asked questions and given time to answer. Brewer was like one of those gluttons who’s shovelling the next mouthful into his gob before he’s finished chewing the last one – as soon as he’d asked a question he was on to the next. I don’t know if it’s biased or not, but it’s a lousy interviewing technique – particularly when some of his questions were the sledgehammer type trying to get a politician to make a categorical statement which could be held against them later. Twenty minutes is more than enough if that is the quality of interviewing aspired to.
Whether Brewer’s patronising sneer and cynicism is delivered across the political spectrum or not is, I would argue, little comfort. One of the many reasons I want an independent country is to have the chance of creating a grown up political discourse based on well-earned trust and respect. No other country I’ve ever spent any time in holds its lawmakers in quite such low esteem – and by ‘hold’ and ‘low’ I mean face down in the sewer where we think they came from until they stop struggling.
I also believe there is another aspect to Brewer’s behaviour which is revealing. Have you ever seen a UK cabinet minister – a PM or deputy PM indeed – treated with the open contempt he shows to Salmond and Sturgeon? He’s the bar room bully chucking beer in your face and calling your maw a whore to try to pick a fight. That is not robust questioning. It’s demeaning himself, his guests and the whole business of democracy.
He’s a disgrace.
couldnt agree more freddie, why bother to ask the question if the answer is not really why you asked it?
To be fair to the DR & I haven’t read it, but the headline does perhaps imply that the SNP want to remove the cuts but have been told its not possible. The Scotsman ? Well it’s not the Colonial Times for nothing & is soooo much poorer than The Torygraph in quality content.
I’d imagine if the IT systems send money based on calculation or multiple thereof …it would be no hardship for a programmer to code something along the lines of (simplifying it)
if postcode = (region/country A) use calculation 1
else if
postcode = (region/country B) use calculation 2
Not really rocket science.
If there are multiple regions then you just add region/country C, D etc and calculation 3, 4 etc.
If these people don’t know that then they must really be f***wits.
Both, though, are telling a deeply – and obviously – misleading story.
Oh you mean a lie!
Just noticed who it is Gardham reminds me of…
link to i.imgur.com
The resemblance is uncanny.
I’d imagine if the IT systems send money based on calculation or multiple thereof …it would be no hardship for a programmer to code something along the lines of (simplifying it)…
It’s a government IT system. Nothing will be simple and any changes will take several years and tens of millions of pounds. And won’t work.
It is not that Scotland wont be allowed to use the rUK’s welfare system IT infrastructure (which we partly funded the development of). We wont be able to, as we will be banned from using sterling and so wont have any 50p pieces for the meter.
Please try and keep up peeps.
Didn’t anyone note that Brewer, having acted in such a boorish way towards Nicola Sturgeon, leaning forward and talking over her,presumably to try and trip her up over her responses, then proceeded to behave in an entirely different manner towards his second guest, a lady prof from Glasgow Uni.Indeed having posed a question to her he actually can be seen laying back relaxed in his chair as she speaks.
There is only one way to handle a brute like Brewer and that is to laugh in his face.
It wouldn’t be all that hard to find out his weaknesses and needle him with them.
Brewer is nothing. He is a puffed up chancer. Would you enjoy going for a pint with him? Imagine that soor face sitting across the table from you. You would spend most of your time looking around for someone else to talk to.
“COMPUTER SAYS NO!”….must be a unionist computer!
So lets find an Indy one that says “YES!” and move on positively!!
Velofello,,, that other guest was a fellow Labour Party member…
Problem is, we can see it for the bullshit it clearly is but the majority of the readers of these rags will just swallow yet another lie. I find it thoroughly depressing to be honest…
I saw Newsnicht last night. Brewer doesn’t actually listen to his interviewees, which is his main weakness, because he asks unnecessary follow-up questions.
Did I imagine I could hear him rustling papers when Nicola Sturgeon was speaking?
However, he didn’t listen either to the academic Nicola. He wanted to prove Scots were as right wing as middle England.
So, when the academic said: “Social democratic values have a political outlet in Scotland”, he immediately translated that as confirmation of his viewpoint.
If memory serves me correctly, Brewer can be rather orange at times. Perhaps this unnatural hue is a manifestation of his inner convictions. Seriously though, either he likes the sound of his own voice, or knows what the replies to his questions will be and does not want the people of Scotland to hear them. Another TV personality we could do without.
Room 101 scenario; trapped in a perpetual interview with Gordon Brewer and Krusty the Clown (aka Prof. Curtis). Don’t have nightmares now.
Brewer was a Paxman-wanabee, and modelled his whole onscreen persona around the lugubrious elder. It never suited him, and he always looked as if he had a sore belly rather than any substantial beef with the interviewee.
But he’s been doing it so long now – acting as the tail on the Newsnight donkey – that he’s grown into the role, and vice-versa. He IS Newsnicht.
The reason he’s so rude to people like Sturgeon is quite simple – she’s not a pale imitation of anyone else. She’s real. And he knows she knows he knows -etc – she would wipe the floor with him in any serious, fairly contested referendum debate.
Brewer is not a serious voice, has barely any credence as a serious journalist. But – he’s a big beast in his own wee patch, and that patch is under threat. It’s entirely understandable that he will spray anyone who threatens that territory.
He’s always been Paxman-lite. In an independent Scotland – where Paxman becomes nothing more than an occasional amusement – what role then for Grumpy Gordon?
BeamMeUpScotty says:
12 June, 2013 at 3:31 pm
“The “experts” on Scotland Tonight yesterday,claimed that the problem was that the IT systems (based in England) couldn’t operate more than one set of parameters at a time i.e. they can only handle UK benefit rates and not separate Scottish ones as well.”
You mean, not like the 32 IT systems in every local authority that handle Council Tax Benefit – you know, the one that changes constantly with people’s changing circumstances?
Or the Housing IT systems in 280 Housing Associations which also constantly adjust to CoC.
Nah, they’re right. Canna, Shouldna, Owre Puir, Wee and Genetically Inferior. No it is!
How could this ever work.
@Juteman
” it’s surely just a matter of time before a headline simply says BOO!”
Like this?
link to tinyurl.com
BBC Scotland are going the same way as Scottish Labour, yesterdays men. The future is called Scotland Tonight, open calm and adult discussion. Onwards and upwards.