24 little hours
…is all you have to put up with before we stop nagging you for cash again for another year. The 2018 Wings fundraiser ends tomorrow morning, so this is your last chance to put a little of your money where our mouth is.
(Fundraiser page here, or click here to donate directly.)
.
The current total stands at a phenomenal £128,600 – already the second-highest ever by a five-figure margin, and just £11,447 short of the all-time record.
So one last time, we’re going to remind you:
– the average Wings reader gives the BBC £72 a year, and Wings just 43p.
– the Unionist “grassroots” organisations who we also have to fight are funded by Lords, Dukes, Earls, Countesses, Sirs and billionaires.
– we use your money to produce stuff that actually makes a difference, rather than just lecturing an internet audience that already agrees with us.
– we’re the only pro-indy site the Unionist/media establishment fears enough to constantly attack, smear and try to silence.
If any of that is worth anything to you, now’s the time to show it, folks.
Although we are approaching the end of the annual fundraiser I am sure we would all support a second one if the starting gun is fired any time in the next 12 months.
Stuart,
I’d give up a lot for independence, I’d work harder, I’d feel obliged to sacrifice for the greater good, unburden my nation from subsidy.
I wonder how many old/new money toffs feel the same about the future, how many would flee to the tax haven that is Tory Brexit England.
Gonna chip in again, what I can.
That having been said, anyone who values this site and hasn’t already donated to this one is a strange person. It doesn’t have to be a lot, mony a muckle and all that.
Wings is needed more than ever to try to counteract the bbc and their ‘editing’ of the news. Recently 3 examples of downright reversing of the news: ‘govt intervened in Carla case’ downright lie, the Scottish Govt clearly said it could not intervene. RS said FM said ‘people who voted for brexit will not be forgiven’ editing out FM’s words to completely change what she said blaming the lorry drivers in the snow when she did no such thing and was complaining about companies demanding lorries should move when weather was so bad and goods being moved were not essential. The bbc seems incapable of telling any kind of truth and either they are completely stupid or it is deliberate, I know what I believe. Wether the news readers are ‘just following orders’ or writing the lies remains to be seen but which ever it is they are culpable.
Can’t agree more, would also add that if Indy ref not called before exit day ie March 2019 then UK go will demolish this web site and all others which threatens their rule.
I suppose WoS is like a microcosm of the wider movement. Take a typical constituency – 10000s will show support by voting, 100s will join pro Indy parties, 10s will get off their arses to deliver leaflets, knock doors, and man stalls.
Of WoS total readership a few 1000 actually contribute dosh.
I must admit I always find the levels of hands on support disappointing.
So, if you haven’t … cough up what you can afford for WoS … and also get out and do some real campaigning!
Well done once again. A magnificent effort. More to come today (and tomorrow and every day).
Thanks for all you do, Stu. Thanks a Billion. Worth your weight in gold. Pure magic.
It’s coming.
Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get someone to vote as well. Simple.
Posted on our Yes page. Might I suggest other groups do the same? Also it’s great to do one off donations but also please consider a small monthly amount. It’s a great feeling to know you are funding the demise of the union – and let’s face it this site is in a league of its own in this regard.
It’s also good for your stress levels Cos each time the bbc comes out with more crap you can chillax and think. He he. I’m funding Wings. The unionists fear it.
Quite apt really that the Annual WoS Fundraiser ends today:
link to simple.wikipedia.org
On this day the 6th April 1320, Scottish Barons met at Arbroath Abbey to sign the Declaration of Arbroath.”
The Declarations most famous line is:
“It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”
Today it is alternative media outlets like WoS that are essential in providing the factual ammunition to rebut the BBC/MSM lies and deceit in our democratic fight to free Scotland from the chains of the Act of Union.
So a kick in the arse off 700 years after the Declaration of Arbroath we aren’t being asked to “give our lives” to help achieve Independence, only to donate a few quid each to The Rev (if we can afford to).
The Declaration also states:
“…for so long as there shall be but one hundred of us remain alive…”
Well there are more than 100 Wingers out there (even once you discount all the Trolls).
With average Monthly readership of 300,000 imagine how many ‘Wee Blue Books’ etc. could be ready and waiting for use when the Indy Ref 2 starting gun is fired if all the readers donated just £1.
Gold medal for Scotland. Cycling. Katie Archibald. Superb. Her brother is there too.
Has anyone seen Rory Bremner on the BBC lately?
John Archibald. Well done everyone.
Just needs Andy Murray back. More excitement.
[…] Wings Over Scotland 24 little hours …is all you have to put up with before we stop nagging you for cash again for […]
You are an Inspiration Rev and to save my Homeland, Scotland,
Count me in for round 3 of donations.
How many people who haven’t yet donated will rue the day when their Country becomes an official colony of England, when the NHS is privatised to an American company with Tory Shareholders, when the next £Trillion of Oil reserves are wasted by Westminster on English Projects and Tory Party Supporters???
Gather together and greet the Storm and Scotland once more is Free!
Glad to say I no longer have the tv licence
Well you’ve finally gone and done it … you’ve got yourself a new computer …
Oops sorry about that … my brain cell was wandering all the way back to our first computer there. 😀
Finally I got round to dipping into my credit card. 😉
Every penny well worth it and more! 😀
From firdseven in the Guardian:
“I am gonna use Mays reasoning on the assassination of Kim Jong Un?s brother to find out who the perpetrator was.
1. So we know he was poisoned with VX
2. VX is a British nerve agent
3. Britain is hostile towards North Korea.
Therefore Britain did it …
Next case, please
link to theguardian.com
ScotsRenewables says: 6 April, 2018 at 9:41 am
“Although we are approaching the end of the annual fundraiser I am sure we would all support a second one if the starting gun is fired any time in the next 12 months.”
I’d second that and add that now is the time to start planning the strategy for indy ref 2, we have two referednums to learn lessons from.
The BBC is plumbing new depths in its “coverage” of the Salisbury poisoning story, as detailed in the Canary links below.
Paying for this warped stuff is an excellent way to support the Union.
Choose the antidote. Choose Wings.
link to thecanary.co
link to thecanary.co
And let us not forget the (sadly real) dead cat story that Radio 4 wants to ignore:
link to twitter.com
Just added to the fundraiser, Stu, and glad to do so. Didn’t feel a thing.
Maybe that’s partly because I regularly buy wild bird food, so feeding Wings as well is no bother at all.
BTW, this year we have a daily visit by a pair of Goldfinches. They sure are bonnie birds.
link to google.co.uk
Re the Skripal’s cat story from Black Joan. Well spotted, BJ.
You’d think a healthy cat would be a dead giveaway.
Its a funny old world. ( specially when yir deed )
An epitaph that was on a headstone until some moronic pimple faced gits knocked it over and destroyed it completely.
Stop dear friend as you pass by
As you are now so once was I
As i am know so you will be
So be prepared to follow me
Obviously a man with a sense of humour, I would have liked him.
I’m not going to contribute until I know what HAMMERS did that he should be killed along of me
Its no good slagging off the MSM for suppressing the truth if we dont observe the same rules 🙂
Donated.
What a difference our wings make 24 little hours. Ok, ok , my Masters gambling dosh coming your way.
Sick of being in this corrupt Union that belittles Scotland and Scots on a daily basis. Come on my fellow Scots throw of your shame and subservience and vote for independence. You know deep down that it is the normal state for a country to run its own affairs.
This idea of us all being British is a sham designed to allow Westminster to rip off Scotland.
I have already contributed but more funds on its way today. Keep up the good work Wings.
Another tenner bunged in from me, Rev (PayPal).
It’s gonnae be a big year and we’ll need ever penny. Dig deep folks.
John Thomson@10.10am.
Yep, there’s a bit of a spat on twitter between Peter Bell, GA Ponsonby against Pete Wishart. Pete not wanting a new Referendum until the polls show a good percentage of Scots want Independence. I’m with Peter Bell, and think this Autumn is the best time all round. Leaving it any longer allows the British Government to do what it wants to us!
I can’t understand why people who read Wings think it should all be free! Please Donate, even a little.
The majority of readers in Scotland will be paying a bit less income tax from today and maybe send in a wee donation in. You need to check your tax code to make sure you have a Scottish Tax Code. If you have the prefix S then you have a Scottish Tax Code. For the majority the tax code will be S1185L for the new tax year that started today. If you don’t have it than contact HMRC and request one. If you moved back to Scotland but have not let the Tax Office know of your new address otherwise you will pay a wee bit more tax than you need to and the tax deducted from your earning or pensions will be credited to Westminster and not Holyrood.
This was what I meant to send before sending it off. Must get my eyes tested or get in a typist.
The majority of readers in Scotland will be paying a bit less income tax from today, so maybe send a wee donation in. You need to check your tax code to make sure you have a Scottish Tax Code.
If you have the prefix S then you have a Scottish Tax Code. For the majority the tax code will be S1185L for the new tax year that started today. If you don’t have it then contact HMRC and request one.
If you moved back to Scotland but have not let the Tax Office know of your new address (otherwise you will pay a wee bit more tax than you need to and the tax deducted from your earning or pensions will be credited to Westminster and not Holyrood)do so and request a Scottish Tax Code)
Pete Wishart is elected. Peter Bell & GA Ponsonby are not. If they want to stand for election and get a mandate they will have the responsibility. It is easier to sound off without responsibility.
@ Ken500
“It is easier to sound off without responsibility.”
Indeed. However, the SG has a triple-locked mandate to deliver an IndyRef should Scotland be dragged out of the EU against its will. That is what the people of this country and the Scottish Parliament have voted for.
It looks a dead certainty that Scotland WILL be dragged out of the EU March ’19. If that fate is sealed in OCt/Nov this year then, if the SG does not deliver on its promise of an IndyRef in such a circumstance, then it will no longer be trusted by the people of Scotland to deliver on its promises.
If they hold IndyRef2 and lose – SO WHAT! We dust ourselves down and stand on a manifesto at the next available opportunity (SE or GE) to offer the people of Scotland a THIRD IndyRef. That’s democracy. And if they win then a THIRD IndyRef we will have and WM can scream blue Tory murder all they like but it won’t make a jot of difference. IT’S DEMOCRACY in action and THEY will have lost gaining support for themselves against another IndyRef.
Switzerland has referendums all the time. I couldn’t care less if Scotland had one every single day and twice on Saturdays if that is what it takes for BritNats to finally wake up and vote for what’s right for themselves and their families.
If Salmond could take indy support from around 28% to 45% then I see little reason why Nicola can’t get it from 47% (current) to 55% in the next IndyRef. It’s not guaranteed but no election, as Mayhem found to her cost, is guaranteed. The one thing that IS guaranteed is an IndyRef NEVER happening if we take Pete Wishart’s view. Perhaps he is becoming too cosy down in the midden.
Ken500 2.21 ffs you off your meds again?
Doubt it. It is easier to sound off without responsibility.
‘Have never ending Referendum’ but ‘if it takes Pete Wishsrt view it will never happen’ ? Doesn’t make sense. Contradiction. Waiting or not. If people vote and support it. There will be another Referendum. Elected official will decide. That is why they are elected. Not trusted elected officials and representative. Means just giving up. Not an option for most people. Too important to panic.
If others what to decide stand for election.
Effigy, those of a certain generation will not be about when the NHS is privatised but they’ll vote for it then bugger off, leaving the young with USA style inequality.
No. No one has a crystal ball. The current events are proof of that. Anything can happen. Especially in regard to Westminster. Changing all the time. Circumstances change anything can happen. Just keep on board. Not make idle threats.
Suspect held in Skripal case named as *Wile E Coyote* and he had the tin of *Acme* poison on him when captured due to a tip off by a source calling himself *Road Runner*
@ Ken500
‘Neverendum’ IS democracy.
If that is what the people of Scotland VOTE FOR (as offered to them in a political party’s election manifesto), then that is what WILL BE delivered should that party WIN the DEMOCRATIC election.
Aye – and twice on Saturdays.
Vote YES. And if required same next time and so on until we get it.
‘If circumstances change’ was the wording. The SNP/Greens have mandate for another IndyRef. It was not attached to coming out of the EU. That had not happened. It happened subsequently. If people still want it they have to keep voting for it. It is up to people to come out and vote. There will possibly be a GE sooner. Before even another Indy Ref can be arranged. May and the Tories could be gone. Changing the circumstances again. In a rapidly changing situation. Events have to be encountered as is best to deal with them.
Hi Rev
Flung some cash into the kitty. As this mad year rolls on we need you more than ever.
As I previously said, if you need more just tell us.
Oh, and when’s the ad break before all hell breaks loose in September/October?
Blessings for all you do.
Ken500 @3.03pm
“No-one has a crystal ball.”
Wrong – Mystic Meg (alias John McTernan) has one, and I gave two. They’re much admired.
@ Ken500
What planet are you on?
@ Ken 500
“Our manifesto said this: “The Scottish parliament should have the right to hold another referendum . . . if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”
The SNP was re-elected to government with more votes and seats than Labour and the Tories combined. So as well as justification for a referendum, there is also a cast-iron mandate.”
From SNP website
If ‘neverendum ‘ is Democracy and possible? How is Pete Wishart statement incomparable? With having another Referendum. Everybody is piling in with different suggestions. All of which are incompatible. All different, It might be better to let things/events take their course and have one when it is practical. When everything is in place. It needs a central bank etc. No one can hold back democracy. Even unionists. Annoying though it can be.
Can the Scottish Gov not introduce Leveson recommendations. Alex Salmond said it could be done. It would give more people the right to sue the lying Press. Maybe it is because they can beam it in in any cause. Broadcasting being reserved.
It doesn’t give the time scale of when to have it? Before, after, during. People have to keep on supporting it. In any case. Last election some did not even bother to come out to vote. Disappointingly.
Hope you don’t mind Dr. Jim but I “stole” your comment there and posted it on Twitter. 😀
@ Ken500
Back on topic, eh:
link to wingsoverscotland.charitycheckout.co.uk
pete wisharts point about not holding indyref2 before 2021 was dependent on there being a lack of support for it.
that is 3 years away and i dont imagine that situation will arise, if it does we should address it then
btw, i dont know anyone who doesnt want indyref2, myself included.
the discussion is about when. some want it in sept18, others spring19 or sept 18.
someone on the previous thread made a good case for sept20 but like pete wisharts point, i dont think we need to consider this option until next year, depending on how our options look.
for the moment the only real question is sept18 or next year after we leave the EU.
How do you nominate someone for a Pulitzer Prize?
$15000 for the pot.
The original target has now been more than tripled!
Target to meet and beat £140,047.
Time remaining till midnight:
8 little hours.
Time remaining till close:
17 little hours.
What a difference:
link to youtube.com
The difference is YOU.
Ticky-talky.
Graf Midgehunter
i dont think anyone is questioning whether we have a mandate, since we most definately do,
the issue that pete wishart raised really only becomes an issue if we approach the next holyrood election and still havent held indyref2.
i would argue that we cross that bridge when we come to it since i cant see this situation arise. indyref2 will happen before then. i am certain of that.
Proud Cybernat says
we have a mandate to deliver indyref2….. yup. no doubt about it.
That is what the people of this country and the Scottish Parliament have voted for.
————
It looks a dead certainty that Scotland WILL be dragged out of the EU March ’19. —–
i think you are right in this prediction too.
If that fate is sealed in OCt/Nov this year then,……… em….. the bun fight that starts in WM after negotiations are over wont be finished until about jan19.
—————
if the SG does not deliver on its promise of an IndyRef in such a circumstance, then it will no longer be trusted by the people of Scotland to deliver on its promises.
————-
fair enough, so when do you propose we should announce and hold indyref2?
thats the issue
The fundraiser page currently showing £137.5K+
Should be able to wrap this up by the 6 o’clock news, eh?
Just DO it (or yer goin’ on the list…)
YOU and we know who you are 😉
Stu says on twitter
” Today so far: £8,800. Just £2,647 for the all-time record. Blimey. “
Well, that has to be taken as strong support for the Indy cause among the politically engaged!
Polls tell us 50:50 within the margin of error.
A relentless anti Indy/SNP/SG campaign, while pro Indy activities are just ticking over.
The most callous, incompetent, anti Scottish, English Nationalist, far right WM government perhaps ever.
This, for me, means the time is very close to being right!
Proud Cybernat says:
‘Neverendum’ IS democracy.
———————————
fair enough, but i’d rather hold indyref2 when i believe we will win it. i’d rather avoid indyref3 if possible
if we chose the right moment then we wont need indyref3. seems like a good discussion for us to have
A lot of the large independent votes in the Caol & Mallaig ward in 2017 went to the Liberal Democrats. No great surprise in the West Highlands.
The SNP vote was not bad. Up 3.2% on 1st preferences and a strong second place.
Labour didn’t even bother to field a candidate.
The Tories however got another poor result with 8.7%. Up just 0.5% on 2017. Every by-election result in Scotland this year has been quite dismal for the Colonel and her crew. The metro media puff pieces about Ruth for No. 10 aren’t so much in evidence as they once were.
@Arbroath 1320
Don’t mind at all Buddy
Pete Wishart’s view is likely coloured by his experience campaigning in his own constituency which has a strong Tory and No element.
I think this phenomenon of judgement being influenced by your own constituency was observed in 2014 when campaigners in Glasgow etc thought we were going to win.
I would not be surprised if some constituencies are now approaching 60% Yes, whereas others have reduced since 2014.
Sent a payment direct to bank account.
schrodingers cat says:
I know what I would do, though of course I bow to Nicola’s vastly superior insight and the insider knowledge she must have.
I would go for this year, before the half term school holidays, and announce it with eight weeks notice. I would make the case that the Tories/WM have gone just too far in their treatment of Scotland, disregard for democracy, and alien far right agenda. The basis should be, Scotland must decide whether we allow the intolerable situation to continue towards a Brexit we have zero say in.
Work our arses off on the dual approach of Indy looking the safe and secure option and Tory/WM behaviour towards Scotland having become totally unacceptable.
But I won’t be making that decision!
There are many threats to the Indy cause. One which hasn’t been mentioned much is that if BritNattery truly put their Union above all else, they would call another snap GE with Corbyn looking odds on to win. That panic tactic could be deployed. A short ScotRef campaign should avoid it.
Shroedingers cat@4.07pm.
After the deal is known (29th sept 2018) and before we leave (March 29th 2019).
That has always been the SNP Scotsgov position. It has NEVER changed.
Ken500 says:
6 April, 2018 at 3:30 pm
If ‘neverendum ‘ is Democracy and possible? How is Pete Wishart statement incomparable? With having another Referendum.
————————
because he was devastated when we lost indyref1. so was I
he doesnt want to lose indyref2. neither do I
he doesnt think we should hold indyref2 until we believe we will win. that could be at anytime in the future, perhaps even after the next Holyrood election. I dont think this will be the case but i agree we shouldnt hold indyref2, just because we can even if we think we will lose.
No is still leading, not by much, but it is still leading. as such I wouldnt call indyref2 for next week, beyond that, i dont have a crystal ball either
he is concerned that like quebec, we wont get a chance at indyref3, the movement and impetus will die. i’m not sure about this, but it is possible i suppose.
he urges caution and for us to go for indyref2, when the conditions are right and we believe we will win.
i think sept 19, whatever happens we dont have a mandate for indyref2 until after march 29th 2019
If Yes loses indyref2 then we simply start planning for indyref3.
If Yes wins indyref2 then we simply start planning for independence.
And to those who argue that Yes losing indyref2 would make the staging of an indyref3 highly problematic. If we don’t have an indyref at all the Tories power grabbing would make indyref2 not just problematic but almost impossible.
Have to keep scrapping to get independence. That means an indyref2. As someone said it’s not the things you do that you regret but the things you don’t do.
Dr Jim says:
6 April, 2018 at 4:19 pm
@Arbroath 1320
Don’t mind at all Buddy
*wipes brow with cloth* 😀
Cactus says:
6 April, 2018 at 4:10 pm
The fundraiser page currently showing £137.5K+
Should be able to wrap this up by the 6 o’clock news, eh?
Just DO it (or yer goin’ on the list…)
YOU and we know who you are ?
Can I go on the list … pleeeaase?
Pretty pleeeaase?
Pretty pleeeaase with a cherry on top?
I’ve never been on a list before (that I know of ;D )
It has been pointed out many times….a handful of millionaires bankroll the Union arguement and the many via modest donations support the Independence campaign.
Why do the elite fund the Union cause? You have to be really thick to miss the obvious
Everybuddy keeps talkin’ aboot the biased BBC.
Talkin’ about.
Here is somewhere to put it instead…
link to wingsoverscotland.charitycheckout.co.uk
Seems reasonable and rewarding.
link to iscot.scot
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Clocks’ ticking…
galamcennalath says:
I know what I would do, though of course I bow to Nicola’s vastly superior insight and the insider knowledge she must have.
——————
most sensible comment yet, indeed, i will support nicolas decition regardless of which date she choses
half term holidays? you mean oct 18? i think we need to find out exactly what brexit means before we even announce indyref2. barnier thinks that will be early next year. i think he is right.
if we announce indyref2 before that point we might change what WM actually does, I think it was heed tracker who pointed out that they care more about the union than brexit. I think he is right, the yoons would do anything to stop us, including cancelling brexit, thus removing our mandate to even hold indyref2. and the bbc will blame us for the brexit shambles.
no, never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
as geeo points out, it is the snp’s wish to hold indyref2 before we leave the eu on the 29th march 2019. I dont think there will be time to do this, and i dont like winter campaigns, it will affect us more than the nos since getting people on the ground is one of our strengths. Also our mandate is for scotland being pulled out of the eu against our will, that wont officially happen until 29th march anyway. you could argue we dont have a mandate until after that date
I am not unduly worried by another GE in eg may 19. the unionists did very well in scotland in 2017, but i dont think they will have the same or better success in may 19. np support in the polls has recovered and i doubt we will see such a low turn out of our support again. it would be a night of unionist losses and snp gains and it would boost the indyref2 campaign.
Cactus says:
The fundraiser page currently showing £137.5K+
Should be able to wrap this up by the 6 o’clock news, eh?
———————-
most optimistic post ever on wings
hint, dinna hud yer breath Cactus
My thinking, if the EU does come out and support us, we wait until we are dragged out, then Scotland can negotiate entry on our terms.
Hehe, it’s the direct donate option that ahm curious aboot schrodingers cat ~
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Many cheers SC.
Scotland.
X.
Archbishop of Dork says:
If Yes loses indyref2 then we simply start planning for indyref3.
Im not planning for indyref3 or to lose indyref2, im planning to win indyrf2
And to those who argue that Yes losing indyref2 would make the staging of an indyref3 highly problematic.
—————————–
well we would need to win another mandate and convincing the people to vote for indyref3 could be problematic, not impossible but an undesirable outcome
————–
If we don’t have an indyref at all.
————-
who is saying we shouldnt hold indyref2? hint, the tories will be awkward whatever we do. it is in their nature
Well I added a monthly contribution to my donation, about an hour ago, after which my internet connectio went down. Oh dear. But the donation did go through.
So we need independence soon so that Stu can get a proper job running Scotland’s broadcasting services.
@ Some folk said vote Green. (2nd vote) Lost the SNP outright majority. On an electoral system changed without authority to help the Unionists. Still in place. Then they start complaining about this, that and this,the SNP is supposed to be doing wrong. Look to themselves. Instead of lecturing others. The very people who slag off the SNP about the time to have it.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get someone else to vote too. Simple.
Do not give away your vote it only helps Unionists.
Referendum now or Referendum later?
Trouble with the later argument is we’re dealing with LabTorDem with whom ethics rules and even laws have no meaning, to these people devolution isn’t a human right it’s a favour they’ve granted to Scotland that they’ll remove the first chance they get if they can’t replace the troublesome and seditious SNP with some of their own
To all intents and purposes Northen Ireland is under direct rule now, Wales is having its place names changed to twee little English names as we speak
Devolution under LabTorDem Westminster is not guaranteed
and if you don’t believe me ask Henry the eighth
On Sky News,( you won’t hear it on the BBC!)
The woman who was “poisoned”, the Russians would like to visit her, she pondered it and then said she would. She asked for a visitor visa so that they could see her. The home office has refused her one on the basis that it would breach immigration rules. FFS!
She says,””the British must have something to hide”, oh the walls are closing in on Westminster and the Tory party. Great.
schrodingers cat says:
My point is I don’t agree with that at all. The Tories will hide behind smoke and mirrors for as long as they need to to protect their Union. I think their attitudes towards Scotland have become intolerably undemocratic and democracy needs to kick in to counter that. It’s much more than just the nature of Brexit, it’s the way any Brexit is being push through with no regard for Scotland’s views. Our view needs to be expressed.
I do believe “they care more about the union than brexit” and will drift without clarity if they believe that delays ScotRef, and they will do it right up until midnight at the end of 2020.
If we wait for clarity, then we are allowing them to set our agenda.
I am convinced a short hard campaign and vote before mid Oct, will allow us to make a solid case against WM/Tory disregard for and mismanagement of Scotland. And a future which looks bleak however Brexit pans out.
There is no good Brexit but it should be only a part of the attack. We mustn’t make ScotRef about the details of Brexit. If we fight the campaign with the Tories red lining against customs union and single market membership, is there much more we need?
We must avoid winter campaigning and vote (winter ends at the beginning of May), and a vote during summer holidays. Late Sep early Oct is best.
Dr Jim says:
Referendum now or Referendum later?
Trouble with the later argument is we’re dealing with LabTorDem with whom ethics rules and even laws have no meaning,
———————-
Trouble with the now argument is we risk going off half cocked and lose, after which we will still have to deal with LabTorDem with whom ethics rules and even laws have no meaning,
Let’s look down the side of the sofa tonight as just another little bit of give to you can’t do with out web site matches last years fund raiser!
Could you have one pint or glass of wine this weekend and put the money in to our fighting fund?
Who would spend £2 on a bar of chocolate when you can lick your lips reading the next expose by the good Rev here on Wings.
I still see some contributors are buying Tory newspapers at the weekend when they are very expensive.
How about taking a well earned rest and putting the money in here
Too close to hitting that number to fail!
Let’s do it tonight!
Until I see piles of the shit rags Scottish Daily Mail, Record and the Hootsman lying discarded in newsagents I am fearful of Indy2. The usual shitstorm from Jakey, and I’m John Mckay and S.S.(Sarah Smit) typo. will be another hurdle to overcome before we even think about the Westmonster. I agree with some Wingers suggestion that we have to go after March 2019.Once the Brexit disaster is known
gala
our mandate to hold indyref2 doesnt start until 29th march 2019.
confusion about brexit cant last beyond this date
in truth gala, we are maybe talking weeks, or a few months at most, difference of opinion.
I dont really disagree with your post on anything else.
i know we wanted this indyref2 to happen before we left the eu but i cant see the time to do this and we need to know what brexit means before we proceed
Re last post,
The EU, should now apologise to Russia for blindingly supporting the UK with out evidence re the alleged poisoning.
Then ask Russia to return their diplomats and they will request the Russian ones be returned.
As for Nato, they should withdraw from Russia’s borders and make the world a bit safer.
The UK is going to be really shown up for what it is, and that is only right.
Come on guys. Let’s create a new record
On harp:
link to youtube.com
For the love of…
Pump up the volume!
Have an excellent Friday night Scotland, cheers.
See ye’s tomorrow Glenrothes.
And Yes M8, on the M8, mate.
£139K+ raised.
Gonna do it by the morn…
Yes.
Now only £1047.00 to go to reach best ever fundraiser – let’s do it and get past it. 🙂
Donated. Hope it helps
Tatu3 – great, every penny helps, and one of the great joys in recent life, is watching the WOS fundraiser total rise. ooh, it gives me shivers! 😉
Donated.
It would have been rude not to.
One. More. Time.
From.
The.
Top.
TFC:
link to youtube.com
Hehe 🙂
Q. Why do we need to wait and see what Brexit means – when Scotland voted to remain?
The people of Scotland did not vote for ‘Let’s see how Brexit pans out’
Gonna do it by this here Friday night, like…
Aye.
(early congratulations, like).
Rising up.
I’ve already donated but figured I’d chip in some more since it’s important & I got a tax cut today!
DrunkenDee – great and I hope you tweeted that to Ruth Davidson. 🙂
And total now at £140.1k. The more the merrier and just think of all these Wee Blue Brexit Books. 😉
Another dollop added Rev. On target.
Record is now broken, see Rev’s twitter feed.
Congratulations to all, a new record with 14hrs to go!
Stu’s put up a new post saying we’ve hit the traget+ Yippeeee!
Highest ever Wings fundraiser, I think.
@galamcennalath: I said the same a few days ago i.e. a short campaign and THIS year, because the longer we leave it, the better prepared the Unionist and dirty tricks departments will be.
BUT I’d like the vote to be BEFORE college/university terms begin so Scots students are still here to vote.
We have to be patient for indyref2 but ready to go at short notice as well. We were told the strategy last year. We wait until the Brexit mess is clear to all the people who still haven’t realised what is going to happen to them. Nicola said last year that calling indyref2 will probably be decided after the autumn of 2018 when the final deal has to be presented to the EU six months before we ‘leave’ on the 29th March 2019. We saw what happened last year when indyref was called prematurely and the three unionist parties and the entire MSM mounted their offensive against us. The Brexit disaster is unfolding relentlessly with even the fishermen realising(but few admitting) they are going to get stuffed for the benefit of London’s financial sector. At the moment everything is going to plan for indyref2. However, as with the general election last year something unplanned could happen at any time and that is why we must be ready to go at short notice but at the moment we must work to the plan. There are many more ready to go into action this time and we are all a lot wiser. IF Treesa honours what she agrees in the transition period, I believe we have until the end of that period i.e. December 2020. Up until then EU nationals in Scotland will be able to vote. I would put my money on May 2019 or September 2020 at the latest. I am as impatient as anybody but we must keep to what is a good strategy.
Shinty says:
Q. Why do we need to wait and see what Brexit means – when Scotland voted to remain?
The people of Scotland did not vote for ‘Let’s see how Brexit pans out’
—————
actually they did shinty. the mandate for indyref2 was based on us being dragged out of the eu against our will.
we are still in the eu and it isnt certain that we will actually leave. many are still trying to thrwart brexit so until this goat rodeo in wm is over, we wont know and dont have a confirmed mandate.
As someone pointed out on this page or the previous one, the danger of a post-March 2019 indyref is that those resident in Scotland but from other EU countries, could be disallowed from voting.
This could happen if the UK decides to crash out with no deal. The rights of EU citizens will be non-existent after 29th March.
IMHO, we’ll know the terms of leaving by the end of the year, or possibly earlier. A short, sharp campaign – 2 or 3 months – will be needed, unfortunately in the winter months but what’s the alternative?
I note much chat on Twitter from BritNats highlighting the Scottish economy is suffering in their Union under WM management.
Are they really THAT thick!?
As many others say frequently, BritNats are doing a fine job of making the case for Indy.
“– the average Wings reader gives the BBC £72 a year, and Wings just 43p.”
If the 8,000 buyers of the fake “independence supporting” The National had boycotted it for a week for having published just one article by the Rev. Stuart Campbell in its three years of exisstence, that would have been something like £30,000 more for WOS.
What makes you feel better, reading WOS or reading The National?
WINGS NIGHT OUT – TOMORROW NIGHT 6.30 -7.00ish kick off.
Otters Head Woodside Glenrothes
ONLY ONE SLEEP TO GO!!! (and I really need it!!)
Pub Booked
Food Booked and thanks in anticipation to those who are bringing extra
Scotland themed Quiz prepared
Quiz prizes acquired by various methods ( all legal of course)
Raffle materials purchased and some sponsored
Raffle prizes also acquired but if you have anything (eg dodgy xmas prezzies for instance) feel free to throw them into the pot)
Couple of volunteers to sell raffle tickets would be a help though
Name badges available if required.
Invites out locally to fellow indendentistas.
Looking forward to a pleasant (but busy) evening. See you all there.
Chas.
bdtt
good post. there are issues about holding indyref2 after 29th march, the refusal to allow eu citizens a vote would impact us hard.
wm did initially refuse 16 year olds a vote in indyref1 but eventually gave way, but if there is a transition period, would not the eu citizens rights be protected during this period?
but i agree, if there is no deal and we crash out wm would try to block eu citizens voting. then again, i think they will try and do this even if we call indyref2 in sept18. But is it in the power of WM to decide this?
however, if the polls swing towards yes at christmas, a vote on the 28th march isnt beyond possibility.
this issue needs more discussion, i’d like to hear more about this issue from someone who knows the legal issue better.
200k of eu citizens, many i believe who will now vote yes, can we afford for them to be disenfranchised?
Cat@7.34pm
Actually, we will know the terms on Sept 29th 2018.
The WM vote is to accept the shitty deal or crash out with no deal.
No need to wait until march 29th 2019. We hit a tipping point in September. That is the day the terms are decided, that is the moment our mandate is triggered into realisable action.
Which is why the SG has ALWAYS said After the deal is known but before actual brexit day in march 2019.
It is like self defence, when folk actually thought they had to be actually hit before they could defend themselves, utter pish.
The first act of self defence is a pre emptive action, namely to avoid being hit.
You are answering your own questions Cat !!
We are IN the EU until March 29th, so EU nationals are ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED a vote.
Past that date and there is ZERO chance. WM were happy to have them voting in 2014 as they knew they could use the whole “only a No vote protects EU citizens rights WITHIN THE UK” as a Yes means they are in danger of being chased.
WM will be desperate to deny EU citizens the vote this time, as only a fucking idiot from the EU would vote No, to DEFINITELY be OUT of the EU forever.
That is potentially over 200,000 YES voters this time, who were No voters last time.
That alone would just about get us over the line.
You then say..”if the polls swing to Yes around christmas..”
Gie’s peace, if we waited on opinion polls as a bellweather, indyref1 would never have happened ffs!
Sick of shitebags on the Yes side.
Without the EU citizens voting last time. (GE terms) YES would have won. Accounting to accounts. Polls which could be wrong. (290,000 Nos?).
An IndyRef can be held at anytime. If people vote for it. In or out of the EU, which can be rejoined in any case. The most over riding thing in any case to improve Scottish economy is Independence. FFA.
It would be difficult to hold an IndyRef in September. With Parliamentary summer recess. It would have to be called ASAP which is unlikely. Especially with the Tories/Unionist in retreat. A winter campaign is obviously not so desirable because of weather conditions etc for campaigning. This leaves one to be called next Spring or summer. Or even after nearing the Holyrood elections Month of May which could give the SNP an outright majority again. An endorsement.
It is possible Brexit never happens. In the time frame suggested. The Tories/unionists support will collapse. Including Westminster. More than likely. Rats in a sack.
It could be appropriate to wait for the date as per respresentative suggestion. They have achieved every time and never let the voters down. Trust is well earned and reciprocated.
I don’t think many of our EU citizens will hang around till March 2019 – even if there is a ‘transitional’ period.
We all know what they’ll do to Scotland whether we have the referendum now or later and we’ll only ever get one more chance before they dissolve Scotland so why wait to give them more time to comfortably prepare their attack on us, while the enemy’s in disarray and fighting other battles kill them now then kill them again to make sure you did it right the first time
@Ken500
Ken, Tory support will not collapse in England, in fact it will increase because England fears the uselessness of Corbyn and the media will smite the guy with every bad news story they can cook up, what do you think this whole poison nonsense is about? it’s the Tories doing what they do to big themselves up as defenders of the Universe which they will prove conclusively that Corbyn isn’t and that he’s a racist and that he probably gets spanked by Vietnamese schoolgirls nightly in a secret location in Tooting, it’s what the Tories do, and it works, true or not
Worked on us didn’t it
@chasanderson200-at 8.07pm
See you there Chas
Wait and see? It was the EU matters that took down Thatcher. Finally the members turned. They did not last much longer. Much disquiet just now, Especially in the Home Counties. Any threats to the Tory seats is the only motivation. Scotland now has successful Devolution. Unlike then. Any threat will be a increased motivation.
According to accounts. EU citizens will stay or go according to their economic prospects. Ie duel citizenship? According to Reports/analyses on internet.
geeo
The first act of self defence is a pre emptive action……….
you have much to learn green hopper 🙂
If EU citizens had not had the vote (as per GE). YES would/could have won in Sept 2014. It would have been a lower turnout.
EU Ref 62% voted Remain. Without EU citizen vote. 38% voted No.
@geeo
Actually the first rule of self defence is not to be there but yes kill them while they’re not looking’s good
I’m not too keen on this let’s give them plenty of warning strategy when they’ve got a bigger army
You can tell the level of panic when you follow the FMs twitter account, the more she and Scotland are doing well or looking good the more poisonous and the more the amount of Trolls increases
Ultimately it won’t be up to us, well it will be for some of us at conference who’ll be screaming for action now, and there are now very many of us of the same opinion, young and old
@Ken500
Your faith in strong devolution notwithstanding Ken, remember they’ll take it away a lot quicker than they devolved it if it suits them, and at the moment it doesn’t suit them
I’d bet my house that the civil service is looking at ways right now to dissolve the Scottish parliament to a more strong and stable precious Union that more meets the needs of R United Kingdom and people
See how easily that sounds just like a Theresa May speech
forgot my previous name, robert bruce i think it was, anyway, i think snp may wait until next year for another referendum. my reasoning is – ” The Outlaw King ” a big budget hollywood movie on my hero King Robert the Bruce.
probably the only peace of information i can add to this debate.
sorry i could not donate, both boys birthdays are in april and im currently unemployed.
So that’s the Rev 100k over the target now. Well done all.
Fascinating reading everyone’s take on Indy ref 2.
Lots of great points.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned though, that might have a bearing on how this plays out.
Is the Continuity Bill!
Is is no due to be signed into law soon?
Westminster’s response or non response to it could have quite an effect on the decision?
@Liz g
You’re right Liz, a lot might depend on the UK attitude to Scotland over this, it could be that this might be enough coupled with Brexit to begin shifting some of the apathy amongst voters who up till now have been waiting to see what’s going to happen before they raise their voices in saying enough’s enough to the UK
Let’s hope so
Dr Jim @ 12.34
Fingers crossed Dr Jim …. but will Westminster dare to go to Court,and shine a light on the Union?
@Liz
I think they will go to court Liz because their ego won’t let them do otherwise, they must demonstrate their superiority and dominance over their strong and stable precious Union but by doing so will also show them up for what they want to do which I strongly believe is totally *Unite* their kingdom by destroying it at the same time
At the moment they have Northern Ireland under direct rule in all but name and as I posted earlier they have begun changing Welsh place names to new English names, that’s not going down well but the Welsh unfortunately have almost zilch power to do anything about it
The only country in this Union who has any power is lil ole us Scots, but will Scots be pulled out of their apathy enough to make our power felt before the Tory Lab lot of them try to take that power away from us
We’ve got to hope so, coz if we don’t act we’re royally screwed because they’ll make damn sure Scotland never ever gets another chance no matter if we vote 100% SNP the Westminsters will invent a law to stop us by declaring some momentously stupid reason for doing it and post Brexit after the return of all their shiny new found power they’ll likely get away with it too
That’s why I’m for an early referendum while they’re busy arguing with themselves
As far as I’m concerned, Sturgeon hasn’t made any mistakes so far, including getting the Ref on the books last March, that was needed for the “notify the EU of intent” angle.
My only complaint at the moment is the delayed Growth Commission report, and if it turns out it’s because of taking some points like MMT from the Common Weal / Space book, and incorporating or at least including MMT as an option, then that’s not a mistake either.
Doesn’t mean I’m not watching like a hawk, and I can see no satisfactory alternative to having Indy Ref 2 BEFORE March 30th 2019, while the UK and therefore Scotland, is still fully in the EU and an Indy Scotland can be offered our own transition – to be confirmed after a YES by a Scotland wide EU Referendum.
BUT – the Continuity Bill is a possible scunner – in a favourable way however. It might in theory make the next Ref a straight choice between Independence and direct rule from Westminster, which makes all the opinion polls so far totally meaningless.
@liz-g
The continuity bill is THE game changer.
It basically formalises Legislative consent from a Convention (sewell) to a legal requirement.
For brexit, it means that WM simply cannot ignore Scotland if we refuse Legislative Consent for the brexit bill.
If they try to do so, we have a legal avenue to end the union on the basis of clear and obvious breach of the Act and Treaties of Union itself.
This will get its first airing over the 111 powers from the EU unless WM back down completely and return EVERY ONE without prejudice nor conditional.
Those thinking the SNP are not on it, are on drugs, or do not understand the sheer brilliance of the CB.
We will have our referendum and the time will be decided by our leaders, and that’s as it should be.
All the opinions about when it should be will not change that obvious fact.
Anyone for tennis, lol
Dr Jim re self defence.
The very 1st thing i got told at my very 1st martial arts class 40 years ago, was “if you can run fast, even over a short distance, then run”.
“However, if you cannot get away…here is what you can do….”
After 40 years of Taekwondo, Judo, Ju-Jitsu and a few lesser known arts like Savate, a French form of using everyday items as weapons, i never run, but i do however project the confidence 4 decades of training and teaching, when in a confrontational situation, allows.
This almost always results in zero violence, as the bullying/think they are tough types, tend to quickly wilt when you refuse to be intimidated by them.
You could be bluffing, and fronting it out, but a wee voice in the bullys head is thinking, what if he is not bluffing/fronting ?
It is very effective.
@geeo
It has the just relatively unlikely potential of getting the old team back together as well, the one that got 74.3% YES, 25.7% NO. But could be a lot less next time.
Less NO that is.
Dr Jim and Liz g
re changing place names in Wales – I hear that the name change of the Severn crossing to the Prince of Wales bridge has not gone down well…. (not that anyone has anything against the Prince of Wales you understand) but it is considered divisive and shock , horror, they didn’t consult anyone beforehand!!!
Also I read on the BBC N Ireland website tonight that Sinn Fein has got hold of civil servants projections for the impact Brexit will have on N. Ireland and it’s not a pretty picture.
So, Wales not happy, N. Ireland not happy, Scotland not happy – going really well this precioussss Union.
You are right- there has been a public outcry in Wales about the re-naming of the bridge. The fact that it has been announced in the form of a diktat- with no public consultation at all- has been seen as a huge insult.
It just gives the impression of a Westminster Establishment which is not only incompetent but arrogant and colonial in its thinking.
As for Scotland- do you really want to undergo the agonies of another referendum with all its potential pitfalls?
Surely, the obvious answer is to end the Act of Union once Westminster traduces the Continuity Bill as they are sure to do?
Meg merrilees says:
Yes, they are destroying the “Union” all by themselves.
Add to that, the poisoning, their devious lies are exposed.
The International community is not happy with them either, little England is coming very soon. Isolated and despised by many,they deserve all they get.
Meg merrilees says:
7 April, 2018 at 3:40 am
Dr Jim and Liz g
“”re changing place names in Wales – I hear that the name change of the Severn crossing to the Prince of Wales bridge has not gone down well…. “”
……..
Small clarification: It is actually the new bridge over the Severn that is going to be called the Prince of Wales bridge. Until now it did not have a name other than the new Severn bridge.
But you are correct. People are not happy about it. I guess they would have liked public involvement in choosing a name like we had in Scotland for the Queensferry Crossing.
link to facebook.com
link to facebook.com
Has Jakey Rowling been canonised yet?
St Jakey of the Moneybags.
Like Baroness Moan of Mayfair Bingo.