Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Vote ‘Yes’ for global rape

Posted on April 01, 2013 by

We like to jest at some of the more hysterical and ridiculous scare stories put out by Unionists about independence, but sometimes the joke just isn’t funny any more.

This week we listened to the “For A’That” podcast, which featured a range of bloggers including the pro-indy Andrew “Lallands Peat Worrier” Tickell and the rare beast that is a right-wing Green, in the form of new member and Liberal Democrat defector Douglas McLellan, once seen many moons ago around these here parts.

caronlindsay

The last guest was ultra-loyal Lib Dem activist Caron Lindsay (above), tireless defender of Willie Rennie and front-bench policy in general. She provided much of the heat in the otherwise good-natured discussion, with a succession of furious tirades against the SNP, including several (eg on the “unanswered questions” about pensions in an independent Scotland) which could in fact have been easily cleared up with a few minutes’ use of the Wings Over Scotland search box.

One in particular, though, stood out as perhaps an all-time low for the No camp.

Around 35 minutes into the chat, Lindsay was debating with host Michael Greenwell about whether the UK’s supposed greater influence on the world stage was in fact a good or bad thing, with Greenwell suggesting that perhaps the UK’s ability to “punch above its weight” in international affairs merely tended to result in, well, a lot of people getting punched. (We paraphrase.)

Lindsay’s response was remarkable.

“But Lynne Featherstone, the Liberal Democrat international development minister, is the government’s champion for stopping violence against women and girls. She’s putting massive amounts of money in overseas aid into tackling that on an international level…

I don’t think Scots would be able to have that impact on trying to change the culture, because one of the most important things that you can do is free women and girls from the tyranny of rape, of violence, to give them their freedom so that they can contribute as equal members of society. We wouldn’t have the influence to do that in an independent Scotland.

Let’s just take a moment to digest that. Never mind what might happen in Scotland itself – if you vote Yes to independence, more women all over the world will be raped.

Erk. That’s quite a responsibility. Although in fact, the UK’s great mighty fist of influence doesn’t seem to have done a particularly good job of protecting women in Iraq. The UK-enabled invasion of that country seems, rather, to have brought rather a lot of rape and violence with it, even a decade after Saddam was toppled.

We’re sure everything’s just peachy in Afghanistan since we “influenced” it, though.

(And at least it’s good news that rape in the UK has been eradicated, as surely it must have been if we feel able to march around the world massacring the natives by the thousand, smashing the infrastructure to pieces and then telling anyone still left alive how to conduct their business like civilised people.)

Very rarely in human history has war been noted for having a stabilising effect on countries, nor being a great improver of women’s rights. German women “liberated” from the Nazis in 1945 must have been quite surprised not to find themselves living in an egalitarian paradise of gender respect.

But we digress. Even if the core point had merit (which it doesn’t), to use the abused women of the world as human shields against Scottish independence is a startlingly despicable piece of politicking. It’s probably just as well for all concerned that we weren’t on the panel, because “Voting Yes will get foreign women raped!” isn’t the kind of thing we tend to let quietly pass unchallenged.

Just 17 more months of the positive case for the Union to go, readers.

77 to “Vote ‘Yes’ for global rape”

  1. Restlessnative says:

    Am sick of sharing air with these c@nts,truly sick.

  2. Adrian B says:

    one of the most important things that you can do is free women and girls from the tyranny of rape, of violence, to give them their freedom so that they can contribute as equal members of society.
     
    I was watching the Channel 4 news last week, one of the news items that they did was the report of the rape of the teenage girl on the Glasgow bus.
     
    After the VT shown on the report, one of the two studio presenters reported the rape figures for the UK were over 1,700 per week. A truly shocking statistic I am sure we will all agree. Certainly not a level a civilised society should crow about being good.
     
    Truly disgusted at Caron Lindsay for making political capital out of such a subject.

  3. Craig M says:

    I get the impression that for many people Unionism is a playground for pet theories and hobbies. How about, for once, they start to stand up for Scotland and her people. That would be nice, for a change.  

  4. muttley79 says:

    It seems the Brit Nats are coming out with more and more offensive things to say.  With the threats to senior SNP figures increasing, when are the Unionists going to admit that this a problem?  Or are they just going to ignore it given that they have denigrated Cyber-Nats so much?  It seems that we are going to have to put up with more of these characters coming out of the Brit Nat woodwork. 

  5. Jiggsbro says:

    one of the two studio presenters reported the rape figures for the UK were over 1,700 per week.
     
    I was watching that and finally found a use for my Tivo’s ability to rewind live TV. I had to go back and listen again, because I thought they’d said ’1,700 per week’. It turns out they did say that. I don’t imagine independence will have any impact on rape statistics, but I do think we need to work on dealing with rape in Scotland before we worry about projecting our influence around the world. Other countries need to deal with their own problems in their own ways.

  6. Juteman says:

    What a disgusting thing to say!

  7. Alex Grant says:

    Caron is a nice lassie but exceedingly naive??
    And the more they come out with this rubbish the more we should try to satirise it?
    The April Fool’s broadcast from Michael Greenwell and the Peat Worrier was great.If we can build on this approach we can make The Bitter Together campaign look ridiiculous.
    Look at the success of last weeks video about the top ten myths!

  8. scotchman says:

    I don’t know Caron and I’ve only read one or two of her blogs. If we were to give her the benefit of the doubt, she maybe didn’t realise the implcations of what she was suggesting. At best it’s naive, misinformed and dangerous – much greater care and thought needed on her part.
    As for the main issue, wielding influence through the heavy hand seems to create more problems than it solves, as the UKs record proves. Meanwhile, the Scandinavian countries seem to have a proven record as trusted mediators in international disputes. Small countries wiht big influence. Why not Scotland too?

  9. Ghengis says:

    Ouch! .. but unionists don’t make sense even on a good day.

  10. tartanfever says:

    I presume she’s talkng about international affairs here, not domestic (correct me if I’m wrong!)
    Presumably as English politicians and leaders make up the majority of our present government and associated institutions which would have an influence on ‘international’ gender issues, is Caron Lindsay stating that if Scotland were to become independent then the rUK would somehow stop these programmes and the onus, or indeed blame, would lie with us ?
    Wouldn’t the rUK carry on it’s work in these areas ? 
    I didn’t realise work in this field carried a load of ‘bragging’ rights.  What’s wrong with a small nation doing it’s bit in proportion to the size of it’s international aid budget and expertise.
    Why doesn’t she start moaning about the other 100+ other small nations of the world that maybe aren’t doing enough on such issues ?

  11. Tom says:

    The unionist tone is getting increasingly desperate and vile.

  12. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sounds to me like she has become a fanatical follower of a certain Mr Foulkes!
    I am just amazed that so called intellectual individuals are capable of using the pain of others for their own advantage! DISGUSTING!

  13. James Morton says:

    What a brainfart – not that long ago, in 2009, Afghanistan came within a gnats hair of passing a marital rape law. It basically allowed men to rape their wives 4 times a month. After a huge outcry with the combined efforts of the UK & US “punching” above their weight, the best we could get was an amendment allowing the men to refuse to feed their wives instead.

    The example is show how limited our influence is in real terms. Its not to say that nothing should be done, but that its going to be a long fight against not just basic criminality but deeply entrenched attitudes as to the place women have in these cultures. But to suggest that Scotland once again is unique out of all nations in its “learned helplessness” to deal with complex issues like rape is hugely insulting. As is the suggestion that a Independent Scotland would undo all the UK’s good works in this area; that somehow an Independent Scotland would be a helpless bystander while these terrible crimes took place. She seems to belive as did george Foulkes with his particulary nasty tweet on the subject recently.

    You have to wonder if this is something unionists do to feel better about themselves or if they actually believe it? So the question is this: is she lying to herself? or to everyone who was at that podcast and those who were listening to it?

    I think that the reason they do this, the reason they think they are entitled to say it, and never answer for any of it afterwards; is that they think their shit don’t stink. If scotland acheived anything it was because of the Union. With the Union Scotland can stride the globe like a leviathan righting wrongs and smiting evil doers, without the union, it is enfeebled, incapable and incompetent.

    That this could very well be a truthful statement of their political philosphy is mind boggling. If not, then it is a wilfully blind, malicious & cognitive dissonance. What I see when I look at the union now, is this hollowed out shell. A fudge, a mean and spiteful fiction thats gone on far too long.

  14. douglas clark says:

    I am pretty sure she is talking about ‘international affairs’ here.
     
    It is all a lot more complicated than that.
     
    Rape in endemic. It is a lot easier to do where men are all powerful. Which seems to be the general case in war torn areas of our planet.

    There have been accusations on both sides in the Afghan conflict. There have been similar accusations in the Iraq conflict and well before and no doubt into the future. I believe, though I cannot prove, that many of these accusations are either founded or well founded.

    Give (certain) men liberty and they will abuse it utterly.

    I have no idea what Caron Lindsay proposes as a solution to this blight.

    Blaming it on the Scots, or at least those of us that want to stop us being in that situation in the first place, seems counter-productive, if I may say so.
     

  15. Just listened to the podcast. I doubt Carol was conciously was trying to say that an indy vote leads to more rape, In isolation it was a stupid comment rather than a malicious one, but then again some of her other comments were clearly malicious so i could well be wrong. It is true that DFID fund good programs on gender, they also do a lot of good funding for WFP (food). Would an indpendent Scotland fund these programs? well yes they could do same as other independent countries in Europe do, or ECHO (EU) do.

    As far as I am aware DFID do not have any direct implementation projects, that means that they give the money to other organisations such as NGOs to do the programs. Nothing stopping an independent Scotland foreign affairs/overseas aid department teaming up with DFID to co-fund these programs, or joining up with any other country or group of countries to co-fund these programs (point made well by the other guest on the podcast).

    How effective are these programs? It reminded me of Rory Stewart’s (Tory MP who worked in Afganistan) point that Afganistan needed 30-40 years of development assistance and commitment to bring it to the level of Pakistan, I think Rory also said that British troops running around after Taliban was only delaying the start of this process.

    I work in humanitarian aid, including a lot in refugee camps. It is very difficult to protect women in refugee camps. There are always organisations working with GBV (gender based violence) in the camps, but their task is incredibly difficult, language, culture difference, lack of presence (security means that they cannot always be in the camp) lead to severe restrictions on what they can do.  Has Carol ever been to a developing country and visited a GBV program? has she any experience of how effective they are? I completely agree with Rev Stu’s point that a good way to protect women is not to start wars in the first place, dont start wars and dont sell arms to vicious regimes is better than trying to protect women afterwards. Spend money on long term development assistance is good.

    Humza Yousef has the right ideas on this as explained in the Herald article earlier this year, although I would say that an independent Scotland should have also a direct implementation humanitarian aid unit.  

  16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    James: I assume you meant “marital”, not “martial”, so have corrected.

  17. Derick says:

    “a nice lassie”
    I beg to differ.  Nasty piece of work more like

  18. Macart says:

    What an utterly ridiculous and offensive premise from Ms Lindsay. Filed under waste of airtime. 

  19. muttley79 says:

    @James Morton
     
    You have to wonder if this is something unionists do to feel better about themselves or if they actually believe it?
     
    I am afraid the evidence suggests that they do believe it.  To be a diehard Unionist means you have to have contempt for the idea that Scotland could run its own affairs as well as all the other nations in the world.

  20. James Morton says:

    @rev stu many thanks for that yes I meant marital not martial

  21. douglas clark says:

    Stuart  Vallis,
     
    Fascinating insight.
     
    I would be astonshed if an independent Scotland moved away from it’s international obligations. It already provides aid to Malawi. And that is before it becomes an independent nation!
     
    The “Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam”. is quite clearly gender specific.
     
    It is up to women and sympathetic men in these countries to overturn that, and for the West to take in any asylum seekers who are persecuted for advocating their countries adoption of universal human rights..
     
    It is also the case that Western Muslims, who live and prosper under a more broadly drawn brush of ‘liberties’ should stand up against this nonsense. There are quite a few groups that already do, and they should be encouraged.

    I am persuaded by the R2P philosophy, as advocated by Conor Foley, but am not quite sure how that would work out in practice.
     
    Just saying.
     

  22. Appleby says:

    Why do people become so barmy when it comes to politics? I’ve never understood the blind fanatics like Caron or Duncan. They worship their chosen party and defend it from any and all – it can do no wrong.
     
    The rational person simply chooses the best person or team for the job in hand.

  23. Malcolm says:

    O/T but anyone watching Stu and Duncan battering heads on twitter the noo?

  24. Holebender says:

    Caron Lindsay: The LibDems’ version of Duncan Hothersal.
     
    Just saying.

  25. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    That’s about right. Party loyalty above all else, even if that means the opposite of what the party told you you stood for yesterday.

  26. Hermione says:

    Sigh.
     
    There are bad people in the world. They not only need to be “punched”, but they need to have their plans frustrated, their stuff broken, and in last resort they may need to be killed. Dead.
     
    This requires some countries with the will and the means to step up to the mark and do the job. Because if we all sit back around the UN campfire teaching each other to sing “kumbayaa” in “perfect harmoneeee” then the bad guys will stop doing their bad stuff over there and come do it over here.
     
    As on 9/11.
     
    Scottish “independence” – on the terms so far presented – would be seen by the bad guys of the world as a former leading part of the West hauling up the white flag, saying “it’s not our problem any more” and retreating into pusillanimous, isolationist neutralism.
     
    Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.

  27. Malcolm says:

    I am a traitorous, freedom hating coward.

  28. McHaggis says:

    @hermione
     
    (sigh)
    and you seriously don’t see the irony in your last few lines?
    your post is *so* absurd as to be nothing other than transparent trolling.

  29. Holebender says:

    Bollocks! Who made you judge, jury and executioner? When bad people do bad things civilised people hold trials and weigh the evidence before deciding guilt or innocence and meting out punishment. You want to kill on… whose… say-so?
     
    You’re a fucking barbarian and an affront to freedom and democracy. You used to be an amusing troll, Hermingy, now you’re just a cunt.

  30. scottish_skier says:

    Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.

    lol.

    Nice one ;-)

    Almost had me there then I remembered what day it was.

  31. Hermione says:

    See?
     
    Pusillanimous.

  32. ianbrotherhood says:

    Interesting interjection from Hermione – it appears to be a one-size-fits-all post, easily dropped into just about any conversation. Almost completely off-topic, but has the vital ingredients – insults, lures and feigned exasperation at the general idiocy of all others present.
    It’s a good example of its sort, and one worth noting.

  33. Indy_Scot says:

    I think the fact that we are experiencing an increase in pitiful “trolling” activity recently, reinforces my belief that ever since the date of the Referendum was announced, the psychological  strain on unionists having a clock counting down to the day of their demise is taking its troll.
    Is that a Freudian slip?

  34. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

    @Hermione
     
    Sigh… Paragraph 1, OK.
     
    BUT
     
    “This requires some countries with the will and the means to step up to the mark and do the job. Because if we all sit back around the UN campfire teaching each other to sing “kumbayaa” in “perfect harmoneeee” then the bad guys will stop doing their bad stuff over there and come do it over here.”
      
    So to understand you correctly, diplomacy is a waste of time and it should really be the biggest who ‘dictate’ to the rest. In fact you go further by essentialy saying that even IF we have NO PROOF that someone is going to come ‘Over Here’ we should go ‘Over There’ and get the boot in first… sort of pre-emptive retaliation strikes for terrorist incidents that never took place… Righty ho… glad we cleared that up then…
     
    Except when you go around the world invading ‘them’ BEFORE ‘they’ have done anything to you it winds up with a generation growing up hating you and you end up worse than before.

      
    Scottish “independence” – on the terms so far presented – would be seen by the bad guys of the world as a former leading part of the West hauling up the white flag, saying “it’s not our problem any more” and retreating into pusillanimous, isolationist neutralism.”
     
    So just to recap, Scottish Independence means that we are going to cause the fall of Western Civilisation? Preventing the UK from being part of Team America world police will somehow stop interference in the middle east or Africa? Righty ho… glad we cleared that up then… here was me thinking the only thing these ‘liberated’ countries have in common is resources.

     
    “Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.”
     
    Ah, so its actually a ‘Crusade’ that we are part of in the name of Democracy and Freedom…
     
    Hey you… yeah you… I don’t like the way you live so live the way I tell you!!! Yeah, that’s democracy… and is the freedom bit recent or were all those Dictators we spent years propping up actually jolly good chaps… No… Righty ho… glad we cleared that up.

  35. douglas clark says:

    ianbrotherhood,
     
    It is indeed the ‘big lie’ that get’s half way around the world before the truth has got it’s boots on.
     
    Hermione,
     
    Member of the Euston Manifesto group, were you? Certainly sounds like it.
     
    Got conned into that myself. Walked away, within a month.
     
    You should have done so too.
     
    Killing people, en masse, in order to convert them to your point of view, is thought to be a failed methodology, in sane circles. You should think about that. Not everyone sees the world the way you do, thank your god.
     
     

  36. Mister Worf says:

    Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.

    I agree! Anyone who dares to use democracy to get their own freedom is a selfish big poo-head that must be forced, FORCED, to stop being all democratic and free. It’s really quite simple. If you use something it wears out. Shoes, car tyres, keyboards, t-shirts, wee sausage rolls. If you use them they get all worn and used and look tatty.

    Do you want freedom and democracy to look all worn and used and tatty? Then don’t use them you cowardly traitor swine! How dare you spoil the nice looking freedom and stuff!

  37. ianbrotherhood says:

    Interlude…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXQ0Wrh_bjg
    …what’s that the man sings?… ‘a military-industrial illusion of democracy’?

  38. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    As Tom said they’re desperate. I think it’s recently twigged that they can’t win. What do they do in that position?  The answer is fire vile insults, and make outrageous statements. Labour are the worst. The only difference between them and the tories can be summed up in one word, hypocricy.  The thing to do  is stay cool. Don’t lower ourselves to their gutter lies.   Continue to make our case calmly, using facts and apply logic-that they can’t handle.
    If we join them in the gutter, we compromise our effectiveness. The SNP know how to play the game. They don’t rise to media intimidation.
         
     

  39. dundee bloke says:

    It’s not the sort of story that you click on ‘LIKE’ and yet it is the sort of story that deserves a much wider audience —–some very insightful comments also

  40. Weedeochandorris says:

    That Hermione knows how to grab attention eh?  You’d think by now we’d know just to ignore the troll?

  41. ianbrotherhood says:

    Hermione – should we invade China before or after we’re independent?

  42. The Man in the Jar says:

    Many years ago I watched a movie I think it was set in the American War of Independence. Can’t remember a dam thing about the movie apart from one small bit of dialogue. Funnily it has stuck in my mind all these years. (Note the description “English” was in historical context “British”)
    “The English promote freedom of thought and freedom of speech. Aye freedom to think like an Englishman and speak like an Englishman!”

  43. Dal Riata says:

    @hermione 
    Was that an attempt at some kind of so-offensive-last-sentence-that-it-can-only-be-an April-Fool’s-Day -joke  thing?  If it was that then it was shite. If it wasn’t meant to be anything else other than what you wrote: 
    “Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.”
    then you’re a trolling fucking idiot who deserves all the abuse you should get.

  44. ianbrotherhood says:

    Sorry, Hermione, it’s me again…sorry, it’s just, well, Delia wants a word…

  45. Adrian B says:

    “Anyone voting “yes” is a coward and a traitor to the cause of global freedom and democracy.”
    Ohh the irony

  46. beachthistle says:

    “But Lynne Featherstone, the Liberal Democrat international development minister, is the government’s champion for stopping violence against women and girls. She’s putting massive amounts of money in overseas aid into tackling that on an international level…”
     
    The non-inflammatory aspect and basis of what Caron was stating/claiming is that a ‘too wee’ and ‘too poor’  independent Scottish government will not be able to be such a ‘heavy-hitter’ and as big a spender as the Department for International Development (DFID) regarding issues such as violence against girls and women.
     
     
     
    I’ve looked at what DFID is currently spending, and is planning to spend, on violence against girls and women programmes/projects,and the amounts don’t seem to be exactly overwhelming, or, er, “massive”.
     
    The total already committed to violence against girls and women programmes/projects by DFID/UK, according to Lynn Featherstone in an interview,
     
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lynne-featherstone/domestic-violence-against-women_b_2810488.html
     
    is £40 million.
     
    Current UK bilateral on-the-ground spending re violence against women, according to DFID’s projects database,
    http://projects.dfid.gov.uk/
    is less than £8m (£7,863,000 to be exact).
     
    In recent Select Committee minutes
     
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmintdev/writev/934/m02.htm
    it is stated that there will be an investment of £25m over five years in a new Violence against Women and Girls Research and Innovation Fund.”
     
    The balance of £8 million seems to be due to recently completed projects, detailed in a recent International Womens Day DFID press release.
     
    https://www.gov.uk/government/case-studies/ending-violence-and-transforming-womens-lives
     
    So that becomes, I estimate, a current annual programme/project DFID spend regarding violence against women of £8 million: £5m for the research programme plus £3m for on-the-ground projects (assuming an average 3 year project length).
    An £8 million annual spend figure is LESS than the Scottish government’s current own international development annual spend of £9 million.
     
     
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2012/09/culture-budget20092012
     
    Which of course doesn’t take into account what Scotland currently contributes to DFID: depending on how the total DFID budget and the Scottish contribution are calculated, it is between £800,000 and  £1billion.
     
    So, I reckon, it will be very affordable for a independent Scottish government to match (or surpass)  the current “massive” international level UK/DFID expenditure on violence against women and girls.

     

  47. muttley79 says:

    Hermione has always been very hard to take seriously.  He/she has continued in the same vein as the fatuous remark about “capitalism doing fine” when we are in the largest economic depression since the 1930s.   

  48. Castle Rock says:

    There has been a few mad statements made on these threads over the past few days but the comment from Hermione at 9.48pm has to be near top of the pile.
     
    Duncan, Caron, Hermione.  All we need now is an article from Kate Higgins agreeing with the comment from Hermione and we’ll have a full house.
     
    Bank holidays are not what they used to be.
     

  49. ianbrotherhood says:

    Whatever’s happened to Hermione…?

  50. Chic McGregor says:

    Does anyone have figures on the basic premise here?  The contention that the countries the UK has particularly influenced, North America, African countries, Middle East countries South Asian countries and the Antipodes, are any less guilty of rape than the those unfortunate enough to have been influenced by other imperial powers?  If there is no such evidence then it is a non sequitur.

  51. ianbrotherhood says:

    Night-night ‘H’ -

  52. Triskelion says:

    I REALLY don’t understand why anybody answers Hermione anymore, I scroll down to the posts to find her and get a few laughs. But honestly…don’t waste your typing fingers, you’re just feeding her.

  53. Heather Wilson says:

    Totally ignore ‘Hermione’ this is a sure way to detract from the serious issues being discussed. Read if you need, but then very swiftly move onto the next genuine comment etc.

  54. rabb says:

    Hermione,

    You have driven me to proclaim the following:

    You’re a fucking halfwit.

    Leave your key on the sideboard on the way out.

  55. beachthistle says:

    Oops! Just noticed that I missed out a set of 000s in one of the figures in my comment above: i.e. the minimum number of Scotland’s current contribution to DFID should be £800 million, i.e. £800,000,000, not £800,000! Sorry.
    The final 2 bits should now read:
    Which of course doesn’t take into account what Scotland currently contributes to DFID: depending on how the total DFID budget and the Scottish contribution are calculated, it is between £800m and £1billion.
     
    So, I reckon, it will be very affordable for a independent Scottish government to match (or surpass)  the current “massive” international level UK/DFID expenditure on violence against women and girls.

  56. Richie says:

    How did this person get to the position she’s in? She’s either thick as fuck or fucked up.

    @Hermione
    The UK are the bad guys, didn’t you know?
    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
    And that, by extension means YOU!
    Aint it lucky for you that no-one is coming round to your house tonight, booting your door in and doing what they please with you before they stick a bullet in your forehead.
     
     

  57. Barontorc says:

    A hundred years ago – politics was never discussed, or if so very rarely, by the common man and his family. Fifty years ago it was still the same. There was no need for the Glasgow Herald and the Scotsman to write pro-government propaganda, so ask yourself, what has changed in the past generation or two, to make a propaganda machine out of the MSM and BBC – and it has to be that common wee Joe has wakened up to what’s going on and he doesn’t like what he’s seeing. So the great factory of delusion was wrought into being.
     
    Nonentities like this young lady wouldn’t be given ‘hoose-room’ with these opinions, the same for Lard Foulkes and all the other desperados. And as for the the blatant lie-machine that is Jackie Baillie and her cohorts, this morning these ranks were swelled  by the Labour MP for Aberdeen – who said quite clearly on GMS that Ian Davidson did not lie about voting NO against the UK Gov bedroom motion and that stories he did lie are SIMPLY NOT TRUE!
     
    Wee common Joe ain’t so stoopid and he knows the lie of the land! 

  58. Erchie says:

    I see Ducan Hothersall’s new trick s to declare the Rev a misogynist. Part f his evidence is some old tweets. If I remember correctly, that conversation was against special treatment for women in politics. That, if women want more women specifically) as representatives, then they should organise, as a block, to make that happen rather than imposed solutions.
    It’s a point of view, that if people want to be treated only as a “type” and to get particular treatment because of it (say all ginger headed folk from Fife) then it’s up to them to self-identify, agree that that categorisation transcends all differences and to campaign together. Doesn’t make the Rev a monster.
    What undercuts Duncan Hothersall more, though, is that his party just over-ruled the wishes of his nominal Scottish Leader, and rejected women only short lists . Once again, Duncan Hothersall condemns a point of view in others, that he fails to condemn in his own party.

  59. Macart says:

    Hmmmmm, April 1st prank or not, I’m quite glad that Hemione’s post is allowed to stand actually. In fact the more people who are introduced to it, the better. I can’t think of a more fitting way to underline just how barking the opposition are than to highlight posts like that. Having said that direct contact with those views can lead to compulsive showers and feelings of nausea.
     
    Probably best avoided.

  60. Famous15 says:

    The aim is obvious. It appears that more women than men will vote NO so keep on issues that will confirm that prediction. Paint the YES side as macho and misogynist and the job is done.Oh and another thing,annoy them so they start swearing at you,that turns off the ladies .Ask my wife…she is  not impressed with the language poverty! Obvious FFS!…..(feverish fontanell slapping)

  61. Graham Ennis says:

    Well, things on here just get better and better. The excellent commentry and coverage is a real blast of truth. I note that the readership of “Wings” is about one and a half times that of the “Hootsmon” propaganda rag owned by the mysterious Barclay brothers from their nuclear bunker in the Channel islands. You could’nt make it up. 
    Well, you could, actually. I have been scouring the internet for film and video clips to edit into a documentary about the referendum, and found a rich mine of material on U-Tube. (it’s a non-commercial film, so you can “bend” the copyright rules quite legally, in most cases). Oh, My God!….the No camp are desperate. I found a paen for No by…wait for it…..BLONDIE!!!…….the stereotypical blond dullness, who is hysterically funny, (Completely unintentionally) in her special Video made for the no group, This has to be seen to be believed. What a gift to all right thinking Scottish patriots. Much more material, of like ilk, that caan be mined. Cunningly spliced, and subtitled, to expose the lies they spout. but an indication that someone is spending an awful lot of cash from somewhere. Blondie undoubtedly did this on a commercial basis. Who had £10,000-£20,000, to splash oot on her?……I think we should be told. There is a vast “Black” propaganda machine at work. I am getting sick and tired of the “Nicey Nicey” response of the YES camp. Time for some Shark like tactics, thahat draw real blood. The whole YES campaign is being forced to the political right by the terms of debate being set by the No camp. This must not be allowed to happen. 
     

  62. KraftyKris says:

    @Richie The iraq body count seriously underestimates the amount of people killed due to the iraq conflict. They only count deaths if they are reported by one, possibly two (I can’t remember), news organisations that present in English. It is impossible to count every single death but a more accurate method would be from extrapolating deaths from different areas, this is the method the “Lancet survey” and the “Opinion Business Research survey” use.

  63. Erchie says:

    @Gaham Enjis
     
    The Scotsman is owned by Johnston Press, the ones who probably bought your local paper and ruined it.
     
    The Barclays sold it years ago

  64. Additional to causing huge humanitarian problems, military occupations also make the humanitarian aid work afterwards more dangerous and complicated. Here are a couple of links to an MSF spokesperson, if Caron is interested to know why mixing up military interventions/occupations with humanitarian aid and development work hinder and disrupt the very programs that she champions.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/28/david-miliband-new-role-aid-work 
    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/rizkhan/2010/11/2010111092057403561.html 

  65. Iheartlindsay says:

    Well, all I can say is that you lot are all a bunch of sad buggers.
     
    Obviously, the quote above has been taking out of context. Anyone with one brain cell would be able to figure that one out.
    And how would Vote Yes lead to global rape anyway? Do you really think the world is going to care what Scotland says? All the international work will still continue – Scotland just wouldn’t be a part of it because we would be independent and would not have enough money. 
    Oh, and wasn’t this written by someone who said that feminism was like radical Islam?? Surely you folk would want to read better blogs than this? 
    Better together all the way!!!!! :) 

  66. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “And how would Vote Yes lead to global rape anyway?”

    Ask Caron. She’s the one who said it.

  67. Morag says:

    All the international work will still continue – Scotland just wouldn’t be a part of it because we would be independent and would not have enough money.
     
    Oh, do keep up.  Scotland as an economic unit is in a better financial position than the UK as a whole, and is set to be in a considerably better position after independence.  We will have enough money to made a reasonable, proportionate contribution to international aid, without any problem at all.

  68. muttley79 says:

    @Iheartlindsay
     
    All the international work will still continue – Scotland just wouldn’t be a part of it because we would be independent and would not have enough money.
     
    The Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid line.  The Scottish cringe…

  69. Adrian B says:

    @ Iheartlindsay,
    All the international work will still continue – Scotland just wouldn’t be a part of it because we would be independent and would not have enough money.
     
    This line was put to bed some time ago with the figures that show that Scotland happily contributes more per head of population than the rest of the UK does. Time to move out of the centuries old mindset and get up to date with the reality of the situation.
     
     

  70. Iheartlindsay says:

    So we’ll have enough money will we?
     
    John Swinney’s report talking of highly uncertain oil revenues was airbrushed out of history by Alex Salmond’s predictions of an oil boom which will, conveniently, coincide with a yes vote in the independence referendum.
     
    And oil won’t last forever anyway.
     
    When we have half of Scotland’s workers employed by the public sector, and an aging population to look after, we’ll have our work cut out to meet our own needs, let alone anyone else’s.

  71. Galen10 says:

    @ lheartlindsay
    Predictions about oil running out, or it being too volatile etc have been around for decades. A cursory glance at the available evidence shows that not only in there plenty of oil, but that the smart money is on oil prices only being likely to increase significantly over coming decades. Earlier forecasts of oil prices have been consistently much too low.
    None of this is rocket science, and only the most blinkered unionist zealot now believes that an independent Scotland would be anything but BETTER off financially than if it stays shackled to the corpse of the UK.
     
     

  72. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So we’ll have enough money will we?
    John Swinney’s report talking of highly uncertain oil revenues was airbrushed out of history by Alex Salmond’s predictions of an oil boom which will, conveniently, coincide with a yes vote in the independence referendum.
    And oil won’t last forever anyway.
    When we have half of Scotland’s workers employed by the public sector, and an aging population to look after, we’ll have our work cut out to meet our own needs, let alone anyone else’s.”

    Sigh. If you want to cut-and-paste large chunks of Better Together bollocks verbatim, you won’t find much of a welcome on this site. By all means make arguments of your own, if you have any, but don’t expect anyone to engage with such tiresome, lazy-arsed propaganda here.

  73. Macart says:

    @iheartlindsay
    “John Swinney’s report talking of highly uncertain oil revenues was airbrushed out of history by Alex Salmond’s predictions of an oil boom which will, conveniently, coincide with a yes vote in the independence referendum.”
    Soooo you don’t agree with either Vince Cable or Johann Lamont? I mean I understand your reluctance to agree with the Scottish government, BP, Statoil, Dana, Shell, Scottish Enterprise, and the SCDI. But uncle Vince and aunty Jo?
     
    http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/7102-oil-industry-is-booming-except-when-discussing-scottish-independence
     
    http://www.iexpats.com/britain-expats-oil-gas-jobs/
     
    http://www.scottish-enterprise.com/~/media/SE/Resources/Documents/MNO/Oil-and-Gas-strategy-2012-2020.pdf
     
    These companies don’t spend for fun. They expect a return and a longterm investment and according to uncle Vince’s own words “Our plans for oil and gas are the start of a joint venture between the government and industry to build a solid base that will generate decades of future investment, especially in the North Sea.”
     
    Follow the money.

  74. muttley79 says:

    @Iheartlinsay
     
    So we’ll have enough money will we? 
     
    Have you been reading what UK Government Ministers have been saying in the last few weeks about the boom in the North Sea oil industry?  The answer is Yes.
     
     
    And oil won’t last forever anyway.
     
    It will last for another 40-50 years.  The question is, do you want Scotland to control her natural resources, or continue to let Westminster waste it like the last 40 years? 

  75. The UK overseas aid budget fell by 2.2 percent in 2012, but UK is on track to give 0.7 percent of GDP as overseas aid due to the fall in UK’s GDP(!). Seems that some small european countries, notably Austria, Luxembourg, Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, increased their overseas aid…  Here is some data from the OECD showing the increases or decreases in aid from various countries.
    “ODA from the fifteen EU countries that are DAC members was USD 63.7 billion in 2012, representing a fall of -7.4% compared to 2011.  As a share of their combined GNI, ODA fell from 0.44% in 2011 to 0.42% in 2012. ODA rose or fell in DAC EU countries as follows:

    Austria (+6.1%):  due to debt relief operations with sub-Saharan Africa;
    Belgium (-13.0%): reflecting overall cuts in its aid budget;
    Denmark (-1.8%): reflecting a reduction in bilateral grants;
    Finland (-0.4%);
    France (-1.6%)[1];
    Germany (-0.7%): due to reduced contributions to multilateral institutions;
    Greece (-17.0%): due to austerity measures;
    Ireland (-5.8%):  due to fiscal constraints leading to cuts in its aid budget;
    Italy (-34.7%): due to lower levels of aid to refugees arriving from North Africa and reduced debt relief grants compared to 2011; however, the Italian government has made a firm commitment to increase ODA allocations in order to reach 0.15-0.16% of GNI in 2013;
    Luxembourg (+9.8%): reflecting an increase in bilateral grants;
    Netherlands (-6.6%): due to overall cuts in its aid budget;
    Portugal (-13.1%): due to the unprecedented financial constraints leading to cuts in its
    budget;
    Spain (-49.7%):due to the financial crisis;
    Sweden (-3.4%): due to reduced capital subscriptions to international organisations, although cash disbursements to these organisations increased;
    United Kingdom (-2.2%): reflecting firm budget allocations were put into place to ensure that the government spent an ODA volume of 0.56% of GNI in 2012 and 0.7% from 2013 onwards.

    In 2012, total net ODA by the 27 EU member states was USD 64.9 billion, representing 0.39% of their combined GNI.  Net disbursements by EU Institutions to developing countries and multilateral organisations were USD 17.6 billion, a rise of +8.0% compared to 2011, due essentially to an increase in loans.

    Net ODA rose or fell in other DAC countries as follows:

    Australia (+9.1%):  to meet its international commitments to scale up aid in order to reach 0.5% ODA/GNI in 2016-17.
    Canada (+4.1%): due to an increase in debt relief and its continued commitment to major regional initiatives;
    Iceland (+5.7%): reflecting the overall scaling up of its aid programme;
    Japan (-2.1%): due to a fall in bilateral grants and reduced contributions to international organisations;
    Korea (+17.6%): due to the overall scaling up of its aid to achieve an ODA/GNI ratio of 0.25% by 2015;
    New Zealand (+3.0%) reflecting the overall scaling up of its aid to reach an ODA level of $NZ 600 million;
    Norway (+0.4%);
    Switzerland (+4.5%): reflecting the overall scaling up of its aid to reach 0.5% of GNI by 2015.”

    Source:
    http://www.oecd.org/dac/stats/aidtopoorcountriesslipsfurtherasgovernmentstightenbudgets.htm
     

  76. Correction to my previous post, actually it is true in 2013 that UK is massively increasing its aid budget, after a fall in 2012, by increasing the proportion of ODA from 0.56 percent of GNI to 0.7 percent of GNI.  “Help” from stagnant GDP figures amounts to savings of 700 million pounds. The increase in 2013 amounts to a change from 8.5 billion in 2012 to 10.8 billion pounds in 2013. In 2013 UK will then join Sweden, Norway, Luxembourg, Denmark and Netherlands in giving 0.7 percent of GNI or more to overseas aid. I thought I must have something wrong when i read articles in the telegraph and express moaning about the UK helping foreigners out. So well done to the UK, credit where credit due.. although it is still less than what Humza Yousef was proposing for an independent Scotland (only Norway and Sweden are spending 1 percent of GNI).
    source: The House of Commons Library, SN/EP/3714 “The 0.7 percent aid target”



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