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Expressway to Lietown

Posted on September 27, 2016 by

Low-wattage Labour list MSP Neil Findlay (rejected by the electorate of Almond Valley by a thumping 8,393 votes in May) puffed himself up to maximum socialism this week and attacked the SNP’s rather more popular Paisley MP Mhairi Black over a Scottish Daily Express story about travel expenses.

findlayexpress

It might have been an idea if he’d read the piece all the way to the end.

Because while the Express is prone to deranged hysterical misrepresentation and even flat-out fabrication, when it comes to reporting hard facts and figures it’s still obliged to bury the truth somewhere near the bottom of articles.

The paper claimed:

“Scottish MPs enjoyed almost £600,000 worth of taxpayer-funded business-class flights last year, up tenfold on the previous 12 months.

The increase is almost entirely down to the new intake of SNP politicians eschewing economy fares in favour of the more expensive fully flexible tickets, recorded as business-class by the parliamentary watchdog, between London and Scotland.”

Alert readers will have had alarm bells clanging everywhere at those weasel words in the second paragraph, “RECORDED AS business-class”. The Express has written it that way because of the inconvenient fact that there are no business-class flights in existence between either Edinburgh or Glasgow and London.

britairecon

The only airline that flies from either airport to Heathrow is British Airways, and it only offers Economy-class seats. The budget carriers Ryanair and Easyjet have flights to Stansted (twice as far away, at 30 miles), but neither offers business class.

So the Express’ headline about “luxury” flights and its stock-photo picture of a plush business-class seat from an intercontinental A380 Airbus are both complete fictions.

expressflights

airbusbusinessclass

(And for some reason the paper’s also chosen as its other illustration a picture of the Holyrood chamber, despite the story being solely about Westminster MPs.)

The article also features this highly-misleading paragraph:

“British Airways’ Club Europe business-class service includes access to private lounges, priority check-in, extra space and complimentary food and drink – including Heidsieck Monopole Champagne.”

It may well do, but it’s entirely irrelevant to the story as domestic flights within the UK are NOT part of the Club Europe service. On internal flights you get the exact same seats, space, food and drink service regardless of your ticket price.

The Express, however, knows that that line gives the false impression that MPs are living the privileged high life, without the paragraph technically containing a lie. The next paragraph repeats the trick:

“According to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) rules, MPs can claim for business-class travel only if the ticket costs no more than the most expensive flexible economy fare available at the time of booking.”

Anyone reading that will almost certainly come away with the idea that the SNP MPs named in the article have broken the rules. But since what they’ve all booked ARE actually “flexible economy fare” tickets – because we now know that business class doesn’t exist on the routes – no rules have been broken, all of which the Express then grudgingly notes after it’s planted the misleading falsehood:

“A[n IPSA] spokesman said: ‘There has been an increase in the number of business-class flights but it is within the rules and we haven’t received any complaints.’

However, an SNP spokesman insisted the jump was down to the way IPSA recorded fares.

He added: ‘These fares are booked through an appointed agent in Westminster. They are not business-class flights but fully flexible fares which IPSA records as business-class. It does not mean MPs are upgrading from economy class.'”

But the killer fact is still to come. Early in the article the Express says:

“This was a huge increase on the previous year, when Scottish MPs claimed only £60,574 for business-class flights, and around three times as much as any of the five years of the previous parliament.”

But right at the very end – when, as alert viewers will of course know, most people have stopped reading – it finally discloses the truth about the “huge increase”:

flightexp

Because in the year since the 2015 election when SNP MPs replaced almost all of the Scottish Labour and Lib Dems ones, the total expenses bill for flights has come DOWN by £9,000 and down by almost £42,000 from the year before that.

(And the 2014/15 figures mostly comprise flights whose type is “not specified”, which presumably means they could have been the flexible type, which would mean the Express’ comparison figure of £60,000 was really anything up to £503,000.)

So what the Express and Neil Findlay have portrayed as SNP MPs living high on the hog on luxurious champagne travel is in fact a story of them SAVING the taxpayer money and sitting in the exact same seats with the exact same service as anyone else, only with tickets allowing for the uncertain schedule of Parliamentary business.

(The alternative would be to waste money on economy tickets which weren’t used, requiring them to buy expensive new tickets at short notice, or to get the train, where a standard-class walk-up single between Glasgow and London costs £134.10 with no guarantee of getting a seat.)

There is, of course, a way of guaranteeing that Scottish MPs never have to travel to Westminster. We look forward to Neil Findlay endorsing it.

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  1. 27 09 16 15:53

    Labour MSP comes under fire over ‘business class’ accusation – Towards Indyref2…

  2. 27 09 16 16:29

    Eat Your Flag | A Wilderness of Peace

308 to “Expressway to Lietown”

  1. heraldnomore says:

    Findlay also overlooks that IPSA rules permit only reimbursement of economy fare rates, thus any additional costs need to be met by MP’s from net of tax salary.

    And that applies to all MPs of all parties regardless of whether they use bus, train or plane.

  2. Betty Boop says:

    Lies, lies and more lies. It will never end. Labour and their tame newspapers are never done telling Scotland and its people LIES.

  3. Iain says:

    The Express story is worth reporting to IPSO.

  4. Iain says:

    Well done Stu, caught the express and the 16% red Tories lying again.

  5. Grouse Beater says:

    Neil Findlay is reading from Labour’s “Poke SNP in the Eye” card, issued weekly in a continuous campaign of smear.

    He does not have a single idea in his head that might benefit the electorate.

    And the Express should be fined for lying.

  6. pitchfork says:

    It enrages me to see a supposed socialist like Findlay leaping to joing in an express smear like this. Zero principles. At the end of the day it comes down to Labour First.

    It makes me angries than when an open right winger does the same. Cos Findlay and his like are supposed to be different. Aye right.

  7. Bob Mack says:

    “Those who are capable of tyranny, are capable of perjury to sustain it” ——– Lysander Spooner.

  8. Many memes already out attacking Mhairi for this. Totally out of order.

  9. heedtracker says:

    Staggering whopper telling from usual UKOK creeps. But as we know and for example, look at Trump and look at Farage/BoJo and look at Bliar Macdougal’s Project Fear and look at the daily output from Pacific Quay gimps…

  10. Greannach says:

    Given Mr Findlay’s unresearched reaction to a story in what I presume is his go-to newspaper of fact, I must say he seems admirably suited for the post of branch manager of his autonomous accounting unit.

  11. Kevin says:

    Neil Findlay has nothing to say, has no opinion and is disrespected among his own. I wonder what, for example, Eric Joyce thinks about him?

  12. We really need to work out how to take the Daily Express out. It is the weakest of our enemies and its standards are derisory.

    And derision is the most effective political tool. Isn’t it about time that we started suggesting and headlining that those who read and believe stuff in the Express(and the others )are half-wits?

  13. Doug Daniel says:

    It’s interesting to note that Neil himself puts quotes around “Business Class” in his tweet. While it’s perfectly possible that he’s just a dimwit who can’t read past a headline, it’s also possible he knows fine that it’s a load of pish, and is doing the old “don’t blame me, I’m just quoting the article” trick.

    Either way, he’s an arsehole.

  14. Tinto Chiel says:

    Good to know Left-wing BLiS MSP Findlay takes his opinions from The Daily Express.

    No surprise he was overwhelmingly rejected at the ballot box, really, is it?

    See this thing you do with facts’n’that, Rev, is that called journalism?

  15. Janet says:

    I noticed that Heriot-Watt University’s civil engineer, Dr Scott Thinks, was on his high horse with this story. Perhaps we should tell him that the Daily Express does not constitute a peer reviewed academic journal.

    Apologies due, I think.

  16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    In the light of Tom Harris’ comments in the article, I’ve also submitted an FOI to IPSA enquiring about Scottish MPs’ non-air travel costs.

  17. Nuada says:

    Mainstream media lying? I’m shocked to the core of my existence.

  18. dandy dons 1903 says:

    Isnt this mouthbreather Findlay not supposed to an international socialist? But only it seems if it stretches from Lerwick to Cornwall? Classic red tory unionist mantra right there!

  19. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    All to provide ammunition for the narrative that:

    “all politicians are the same”

    In and attempt to undermine SNP MPs/MSPs left leaning credentials.

    When we challenge Soft No’s with evidence of the likes of Alex Cole-Hamilton MSP and Alexander Burnett MSP etc. for being the subject of fraud investigations this will be cited.

    “Aye well your SNP are just the same as the rest look at McGarry, Thomson and now ‘Business Class’ Black”.

    If they don’t have any defence or argument to the policy or argument from the SNP they will target the messenger with smear and innuendo from the headlines to muddy the waters and create apathy among the electorate.

  20. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    If you are connecting on Flight in Business Class from Heathrow onwards you would be allowed into one of the Lounges, as would you connecting up to Scotland in reverse. MPs may be allowed to use these facilities FOC, so, that would include Mundell, Murray and Carmichael

  21. Artyhetty says:

    I don’t envy our SNP MP’s travelling down every week to represent the people of Scotland as best they can, they must feel like they are up against a brick wall much of the time. Why on earth are we in this ridiculous situation. We know why.

    As has already been pointed out, there is one very obvious solution, independence for Scotland, free of the shackles of WM.

    I guess it would be better, and cheaper, and more democratic if we were sending unionist MPs to WM, like used to be the case, for years. They worked so hard for and were intent on working in Scotland’s interests, not!

  22. Scott says:

    Iain says:

    27 September, 2016 at 11:35 am

    The Express story is worth reporting to IPSO.

    HOW Tried to fill in form maybe me but had no joy.

  23. Brian Powell says:

    It’s a toxic mix of “low-wattage” Labour politicians plus their desperate search for a tactic that will work this time.

    The whole Referendum was an eye opener for me to how much Slab relied on tactics rather than real policies. Which new discrediting tactic would damage the SNP, rather than offering something better.

    Now relying on enhanced toxicity using Espress and Daily Mail stories.

    The people of Scotland don’t matter to them.

  24. Hamish100 says:

    BBC politics on now with A Neil. In background McAveety and Jackie Baillie chatting away. Dangerous Liasons?

  25. Henry Orr says:

    Do these Scottish MP figures not include the expenses of Findlay himself, plus Carmichael & Mundell.?

  26. Obviously Labour MSP Neil Findlay didn’t bother to read the whole article in that right wing rag or do some research before deciding to attack the SNP’s MP Mhairi Black’s travelling expenses.

    But then whenever did Labour politicians require facts when they attack the SNP and its politicians.

  27. Edward says:

    Its should be noted that the picture used by the Express of a Business Class seat, is actually from Emirates Airlines, who definitely don’t fly between Edinburgh or Glasgow to London

    Just shows the level of stupid that the Express is

    But as Stuart correctly points out British Airways do not have business class on domestic routes

    But the Neil Findlay support for the Daily Express story, just shows the level of the man, which is somewhere between basement and sub basement!

  28. Wulls says:

    this has to be the worst example of distorting the truth I have read recently.
    Also the easiest to refute.
    I used to fly Aberdeen to Iraq for work with Emirates who code share the domestic leg with BA.
    I can utterly guarantee that BA do not do business class flights domestically and everyone who flies to work knows that.
    The only “perk” of emirates is your domestic connections are called business class which lets you into the BA lounge at Heathrow.
    Interesting place because you often used to see (predominately labour) MPs in it shovelling free booze down their throats until their flights are called.

  29. heedtracker says:

    And derision is the most effective political tool. Isn’t it about time that we started suggesting and headlining that those who read and believe stuff in the Express(and the others )are half-wits?

    Just stand beside the Morrisons news stand for example and tell Express buyers they’re half wits Dave. Works every time.

    Other news, over a very short period of time, the news stand in the entrance of the Morrisons near moi has shrunk in size by half. Wonder why. Still doing their filled doughnuts in union jack boxes too.

    This must rattle the yoon roasters tea cups,

    Because in the year since the 2015 election when SNP MPs replaced almost all of the Scottish Labour and Lib Dems ones, the total expenses bill for flights has come DOWN by £9,000 and down by almost £42,000 from the year before that.

  30. Training Day says:

    It’s salutary to observe Findlay at first hand in the Parliament. There he sits, in his own wee world of Red Tory venom (you might call him ‘almost completely autonomous’), constantly muttering imprecations against the SNP under his breath, no one listening to him, no one paying attention to him, the feeling of shame and embarrassment growing in onlookers as he retreats further into his anguished disorder…

    In that he serves as an apt metaphor for ‘Scottish’ Labour as a whole.

  31. One_Scot says:

    From what I can gather following Nicola Sturgeons speech at IoD, she appears to be saying to May, soft Brexit, that is, retain single market, or referendum.

    Interesting times indeed.

  32. heedtracker says:

    This must rattle the yoon roasters tea cups,

    After a whole twitter day of red tory yoon rage at Mhairi the moocher, angry, entitled Dr NO! types really want their Scotland region back for SLabour.

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks Sep 26
    >@ArthurStramash @theSNP

    Mhari Black spent £17,000 flights.
    Every one is “Business Class”
    Are you defending her?

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 4h
    >@MartinMcD1980 @KennyFarq

    No, political *differences* are a positive thing. What Scotland has is decisive tribalism. Thanks SNP!

  33. Fred says:

    Well well, Fauldhoose’s finest, failed brickie, Neil Findlay talks pish. Who’d have thought it!

  34. carjamtic says:

    Depriving 56 yoons of their weekly commute….priceless !
    😉

  35. msean says:

    That’s a lot of money saved there in comparison to past costs. It seems that voting snp has actually saved money. Is this drop in costs also reflected in the travel costs of other MPs who travel to Westminster.

  36. heedtracker says:

    Ferocious Mhairi monstering yoon style, via Express and assorted SLab twerps covers up totally the extraordinary work Black’s putting into pension reform for women, on either side of the teamGB border.

    Mhairi Black MP Retweeted
    The SNP ?@theSNP Sep 21
    .@MhairiBlack speaks on how, given it is the UK Government’s own mess, the Tories can finally fix #WASPI http://www.snp.org/tories_must_take_responsibility_for_injustice_of_waspi

  37. Iain says:

    Exactly – there is no business class on BA flights between Scotland and London. But if there was, would it be wrong for MPs to make use of business class if they planned to work during the flight. I recall once sitting behind Donald Dewar on a BA Trident (that tells you how long ago it was), but the point is that I could read all his notes because of the confined seating arrangements.

  38. Surley there must be a law against newspapers telling lies and distorting the truth the S.N.P. Should take them to court for slander as I have said before to do nothing about these articles is to condone them for goodness sake SNP the people of Scotlland are Being lied to you represent them act now you have the power to do something about this but for some reason you appear to lack the will

  39. Andrew McLean says:

    Is this a rehash of the Mhairi Black sipping champagne in the executive lounge story, that turns out to be a pile of pish as well, BA put all MP’s of all parties into the executive lounge as yoons can’t control their big mouths in public.

    Also given there recent resort to threats of armed violence against anyone they see as the enemy within no bad thing either.

    As for Neil “Sit Down” Findlay the sooner this odious little man departs the political debate in Scotland the better. Honestly what an embarrassment to any political party in Scotland.

    What absolutely annoys them is that Mhairi Black is a thousand times the politician that Douglas “the wet fish” Alexander was.

  40. Iain says:

    If the Daily Express hacks care to check, they will not find seating like that shown in their picture on an Airbus A320. Dishonest reporting, but what’s new?

  41. Macbeda says:

    @Blair Patterson 12:35

    Will that be the same law that allows MPs to lie to the public because it’s a political lie.

    See #LiarCarmichael as a reference.

  42. Callum says:

    this irritated me a lot – I’m a regular traveller from EDI to LHR and there are some facts being left out of the original article:

    1: BA have been given the monopoly for flights to LHR from both Glasgow and Edinburgh. When they got the monopoly; fares went up on average 25%. My route deal fair is about £326 return. I can nearly get to Dubai for that on Emirates from Glasgow.

    2: flying on the business shuttles week in, week out is not fun. Well it was once when I was sitting next to Menzies Campbell before Indyref when the captain wished US passengers “happy independence day”.

    There is no champagne, and the seats are only leather because they’re still warm from the last passenger who sat in them.

    You don’t get a meal any more and there is no “curtain”.

    Flights like the 0705 from EDI is packed every morning.

    3: flexible tickets, The rev has picked up on this – but it’s crucial. When you are flying so regularly, you are subject to the will of London’s transport system and can miss non-flex flights easily

    4: Business UK is a Y class ticket, not club europe class C ticket.

    5: flights from London to Scotland are 1/2 to 2/3 the price.

    Oddly for some of you; but this was one of my main drivers to YES at indyref. Why was I always flying to London? It seems that so many of my big clients are subject to londonification where all the big important decisions are made there and the brains of the operation (moi) has to fly there all the time and those in London rarely venture past the M25.

  43. If you think this is bad, just wait till Nicola announces the date of Indyref2. They, the M.S.M, led of course by their cheerleader, the B.B.C, will crank up the propaganda to such a level never seen before, all in a desparate final attempt to deny us our nationhood. These minor skirmishes are all part of a phony war to test the waters. Just wait until the battle, and it will be, starts in earnest.
    They, the Westminster establishment, will use any means at its disposal, and they have plenty, to try to make sure we don’t achieve our goal of independence.

  44. Blair Paterson, I really don’t think the SNP are going to stoop to that level. They are going to convince people by working hard for the people they represent and that is exactly what Mhairi Black and our other SNP reps are doing.

  45. Bruce L says:

    First I heard of this was Oor Ruthie crowing about it on Twitter, as is her wont.

    I know these people are desperate to tar the SNP with anything they can find, but it really stuffs their whole case when they are repeatedly caught lying and propagating others’ lies. If and when SNP representatives finally do get caught doing something systematically corrupt or fraudulent (something which seems very unlikely given they know just how insanely desperate their visceral opponents like Ruthie are to find some shit that sticks) nobody’s going to pay a blind bit of attention.

    Furthermore: even if something like that happens and mass “disillusionment” (as Davidson would doubtless literally see it) with the SNP actually occurs, does she seriously believe voters are going to run into the waiting arms of people like her who are so pathetically eager to promulgate these lies?

    The last paragraph of the article pretty much says it all.

  46. Anne Duncan says:

    That photo is of First Class… and I’ve never seen any seating remotely like that on a Glasgow to London flight…. EVER!
    Don’t you just love our creative press?

  47. Christian Schmidt says:

    Personally I would always go on the sleeper, it is so much less stressful than hanging round at airports for hours…

  48. heedtracker says:

    If the Daily Express hacks care to check, they will not find seating like that shown in their picture on an Airbus A320. Dishonest reporting, but what’s new?

    Nothing much in UKOK hackdom, its either SNP bad, don’t exist or they go a trolling. Rancid The Graun’ Scotland section yesterday

    http://archive.is/rGes6

    This in view of assorted UKOK stuff like Ruthie Babes using English NHS stats to monster Sturgeon in Holyrood last week, or Holyrood Barbie unable to find the vote Now button on her desk top.

  49. Papadox says:

    Like all the unionist cabal you can tell when they are lying — their lips move! The MEDIA, MSM know the truth, just so they can avoid it and spew the establishments lies.

  50. mike cassidy says:

    Oh, that Neil Findlay!

    http://archive.is/srkkj

  51. Proud Cybernat says:

    It clearly wasn’t so difficult before…

    http://imgur.com/a/szoi8

  52. bjsalba says:

    @Blair Paterson
    As I understand it, the paper needs to print an actual lie as a statement of fact. Pictures don’t count, nor do irrelevant statements even if they clearly are intended to mislead the reader.

    They get off on a technicality.

  53. Effijy says:

    I used to wonder why they called you the Rev, but as I keep saying Thank God Someone is able to highlight the pernicious
    beast that is the UK Media, I know all too well.

    We really are living in Orwell’s 1984.
    We only have mainstream media lies and distortions.

    None of them have any interest, or intension, in letting the truth loose on the electoral masses, who are stupid enough to believe the newspapers or the BBC.

    How do we get information like this to let Labour supporters see the scams their rejected leaders come up with?
    How do we get to the Express readers with the truth?

    I’d like to see a way were this was really drilled into within Westminster and Holyrood Parliaments, to shame the so called democratic parties of London, who endorse, and encourage the falsifying of vitally important information.

    I’m even back to Bill Boards with examples like this for all to see. Why buy a newspaper if it only exists to trick you, and keep the ever increasing gap between their rich owners and the ordinary majority who struggle to get by.

    I also think our next crowd fund needs to be about promoting this web site. I am still shocked to hear SNP members, fierce Independence supporters and those with an interest in politics who are oblivious to the unique and trustworthy information that WoS has to offer!

  54. galamcennalath says:

    Findlay conspiring with a neo-fascist rag to spread lies, mislead voters, and undermine democracy.

    So this is Dugdale/Corbyn’s Labour? For atrocious behaviour like this he should consider resigning from public office.

  55. mike cassidy says:

    Has Findlay discovered the secret of eternal life?

    https://twitter.com/NeilFindlay_MSP/status/780023997807329280

  56. DerekM says:

    Labour MSP in ultra right wing tory rag yea right Neil working for Ruthie the buffalo whisperer and her band of honest we are not tories spivs now i see.

    Sold out piece of crap call yourself a socialist a proud Labour man you are a disgrace to everything the Labour movement used to stand for Red tory.

    Same old Red tories being manipulated by the blue tories i wonder when they will figure out they are expendable.

  57. Ian says:

    Doesn’t the law have something about acting in good faith? If Scots law if separate from rUK then doesn’t the Scottish Parliament create new laws? The seriousness of this type of deliberate lying can’t be overstated. Whatever can be done to be able to punish and prevent such blatant malicious lying propaganda needs to be done. This cancer needs to be stopped.

  58. Robert Peffers says:

    @Grouse Beater says: 27 September, 2016 at 11:39 am:

    ” … And the Express should be fined for lying.”

    Aye! Grouse Beater, but in practice both Findlay and the Express are being, “fined”. The general public now, “Find”, them out on an hourly basis. Thanks mainly to the Rev Stu and his, “alert readers”.

    This leads to them suffering a loss of credibility and the loss of credibility leads to more and more of the general public stopping buying their lying media products and also to more former unionist voters voting with their feet and thus not voting for the lying smelly stuff stirrers.

    It isn’t an accident that viewing. listening and readership numbers are declining on a regular basis and that, Grouse Beater, is, “fine”, by me.

  59. Paul Miller says:

    Scott Arthur has been all over this too espousing his intellectual superiority over anyone who would dare to challenge the story. I wonder how he ever has time to do his actual job.

  60. Tam Jardine says:

    It would be instructive to look at the average attendance of our SNP MPs compared to the labour shower from the last parliament. We appear to have a reduction in costs and yet they seem to turn up at their place of work with far greater regularity.

    Findlay should apologise to Mhairi for the pathetic and idiotic smear. He won’t though- he doesn’t have it in him. He has history of wee digs at Mhairi- a kind of socialism envy.

  61. John J. says:

    So Neil Findlay and the Daily Express are Lying C***s.

  62. JLT says:

    I think I’ve got to the stage that it now longer matters what any Labour MP, MSP or MSP ever says, I will never believe it.

    They could say the sky is blue and the grass is green outside, but I’ll still need to look out the window to confirm what they have said.

    Basically, Neil wasn’t really discussing Mhairi Black, he was actually hissing ‘SNP Baaaaaaad. In fact, really baaaaaaaaad’ and the Express was only too happy to oblige without letting any of their so-called ‘journalists’ confirm the facts…

    Good post, Rev.

  63. ronnie anderson says:

    Like many on this site Im at a loss as to why the SNP MPs don’t take out a class action on Express & Neil Findlay & Scott Arthur, in a Scottish Court. Cmon SNP MPs stand up for yourselves or continually have shite heaped upon you’s.

    The voting Public need to have confidence in their Elected SNP Representatives + how do the foot soldiers combat those Lies if you,s are seen to do nothing to combat those Lies.

    Think on .

  64. Yerkitbreeks says:

    The demographic of course, is that Express and other paper readers are a dying breed (literally) and so these opponents are going to be increasingly difficult for UK based parties to access

    This is why a gradual approach to IndeRef 2 is mandatory.

  65. Brian McHugh says:

    Great article… but seriously people, how low ate the MSM going to go?

    It’s like they want the end to come for their respective rags as soon as possible.

  66. Lochside says:

    Effijy @ 1.19PM…You express my thoughts exactly. I couldn’t bring myself to contribute over the Dugdale/Blis bullshit as impotent rage wears you out. An arrogant, brass necked, conniving sociopath with a wee girly voice and a facade of a smiling sweet face..she may have, but like the rest of her nest of vipers, I never bought it.

    However, as each day brings us the Big Lie for the rat race choir of Unionist ‘politicians’ gargling in their own bile at the SNPBAD, it still floors an depresses me that so many people in political and media organisations in this country work and collude to attack the SG and by default the poorest people in our society because of a poisoned sense of entitlement.

    It still amazes me the numbers of folk who want to believe the lies and the denouncements of our country and its potential. It also confounds me that we still, at this stage, have not found the combined and unified agreed approach to confront thr lies.
    In Liverpool, they wiped out the ‘Sun’ sales in the aftermath of Hillsborough. The same population took on the corrupt establishment and after years of determined struggle by, basically, family networks took down the edifice of Police and Political lies hiding the truth.

    Why are we not able to replicate this determination and resolution? The ‘press’ currently are, in England, taking down England’s latest Football manager. He was set up, not because he was and allegedly is corrupt, and in pursuit of the public good. but because of pure malice. This symbolises all that is wrong in our society…media driven sensationalism and malice aimed at sustaining the status quo and keeping ‘others’ in their place. Unfortunately, Scotland and Independence falls under that heading.

  67. Craig P says:

    Ooft. Great fisk.

    Callum says:

    Oddly for some of you; but this was one of my main drivers to YES at indyref. Why was I always flying to London? It seems that so many of my big clients are subject to londonification where all the big important decisions are made there and the brains of the operation (moi) has to fly there all the time and those in London rarely venture past the M25.

    I am sure that is the purpose of HS2. To further reduce the need for Londoners to travel beyond the city as it will allow provincials even better access to London.

  68. Al Dossary says:

    Just to point out – that’s First class they have shown on Emirates, not business.

    Our MP’s are using the BA lounges – I would bloody hope so to. They will have me than enough flights under their belt with BA by now to qualify through their One World frequent flyer programme.

    The perfect retort however is that rather than fly, if UKOK had kept up with the rest of Europe and actually had a decent high speed rail system then they would be on the train every time. 2.5 – 3 hrs Glasgow to London should be the proper time taken on a modern rail system.

    Even the 4.5 hrs Glasgow to London on the train for me beats the hell out of having to endure the extra time of getting to the airport 1hr before the flight for a 1.5hr flight only to spend 1 hr getting to Westminster. Minimum 4 hr journey from Lanarkshire via BA vs 4.5 hrs on the train from Motherwell.

  69. HandandShrimp says:

    Neil’s purpose is to make Kezia look competent. The Express is about the right reading level for him 🙂

    Flexible tickets are dearer…but not if you keep having to cancel your economy one and buy another economy one because Parliamentary business has over-run. That is one reason why cost of flexible tickets has gone up but overall cost has gone down.

  70. ScottishPsyche says:

    While it would seem inappropriate to challenge this in court, it is constant and insidious and builds up a picture. Most of us are aware of the stereotype of the SLab trougher who was in politics for life and who did nothing in 20+ years. SLab are getting away with saying that the SNP are just as bad

    You have to wonder where are the SNP Comms people and why are they letting this stuff go unchallenged?

  71. carjamtic says:

    Callum@12:54

    Very good points,my understanding is,as a regular flyer you can collect ‘air miles’ once you have enough,this will grant you free access to the ‘business’ lounges.

    The food and drink are free in the lounges,nice wee saving there,but here is the kicker,if you wanted to donate your ‘air miles’ to a worthy cause,there is no link on BA website to do so and on expiry of ‘air miles’ you effectivey donate them back to BA….a nice wee ‘earner’ for BA.

  72. Simon B. says:

    I understand that you may get away with misleading stock photos, but what about the caption to the photos above? “Scottish MPs cheered at £600,000 worth of taxpayer-funded business-class flights” Is this true? Or not?

  73. geeo says:

    This may be considered O/T..but there is an extremely tenuous connection to lying involved…somewhere…ok it tickled me a bit !
    ……

    Daily Politics at Labour Conference decide to wheel out their ‘mood box’ regarding the ‘brexit’ vote.

    Comments from a couple of delegates were interesting…(Caps are my emphasis)
    ….
    “Scotland HAS TO accept THEIR result in 2014, and WE have got to accept OUR result in 2016”.
    ……

    Or, even better.

    …….
    “Fight it,(brexit vote) i think we SHOULD have another, because people were LIED to…”
    …….

    The delegates are as disconnected from reality as the politicians they support !

  74. manandboy says:

    The Express – Unionist ticket to malicious flights of fantasy.

  75. velofello says:

    Excellent post from Callum above, including – “Why am I always flying to London?”

  76. ian says:

    This is from the US – ‘During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Fox attorneys did not dispute Akre’s claim that they pressured her to broadcast a false story, they simply maintained that it was their right to do so.’

    So how about the UK – ‘In the United Kingdom, the print media is essentially self-regulating. There is no statutory Press Council, no statutory complaints body and no requirement that journalists be registered or belong to any particular association. There is, however, a body established by newspaper bodies themselves, the Press
    Complaints Commission.

    Media content regulation in the UK revolves primarily around codes of practice, drawn up by a variety of bodies which are either entirely or largely independent, following wide public consultation. In some cases, these codes of practice have been developed by bodies with statutory powers over the media while in others the responsible bodies have been established by the
    media or journalists themselves.

    The various codes of conduct in place in the UK generally provide guidelines for media professionals, rather than setting clear prohibitions on specific types of content. They represent an attempt to provide so me guidance to the media.’

    So self regulation once again. If the rUK is happy to let their media lie in the gutter and have to live with the consequences then that’s up to them. But if Scotland can do something to put a stop at least to the most blatant ‘misrepresentations of the truth’, then that’d be a good place to put some serious effort.

    Not enough people know that headlines in particular are often basically false. Debunking them is only partially effective and too often the damage has been done, which of course is their objective. Self regulation is a waste of time. There needs to be formal independent and legally binding regulation.

  77. Arbroath1320 says:

    To be fair to oor wee Neil there are a couple of flights a day I have seen on the Flightradar 24 website (https://www.flightradar24.com/56.37,-3.91/8) that are carried out by B767’s.

    As those in the know 😉 these aircraft usually fly intercontinental flights and so will have Business class seats on board. The fact that B.A. do not actually sell Business class flights between Edinburgh/Glasgow and Heathrow is purely coincidental. This simple FACT does not stop our SNP MP’s from all claiming Business class seats on these B767 flights … OBVIOUSLY! 😀

    Thanks for the heads up Neil! 😛

  78. silver19 says:

    OT:

    Talking about useless Tories, I see Westminster just wasted £285.5 Million on an airport that cannot be used in Saint Helena.

    I see Gordon Brown approved plans for the airport but was put on hold due to the financial crisis in 2008 of which he aided and abetted due to his shear incompetence as Chancellor but it was the Blue Tories in 2011 that went ahead with this airport.

    Story here :- http://archive.is/ZifpB

  79. yesindyref2 says:

    @Rev
    I don’t believe it, I just don’t believe it. I posted this question late yesterday on the previous thread, and you’ve been up all night with the kitten answering it.

    Well, what can I say, service with a, errrr, smile 🙂

  80. Dr Jim says:

    Did the Liberal Democrats ever get this much coverage and attention by the Scottish media when they were the third party in Holyrood

    I don’t think so!

    But could it be, most of the Scottish media (BBC) are members of the Labour party and in the Union

    Just guessing there

  81. dramfineday says:

    Good post Calum, plus 1 on the last para. In my British Midland “diamond club” days I used to regularly see labour MPS knocking back the free booze and food. Thank God I’m out of it, you have my heartfelt sympathy having to put up with all that travel.

    I’m wondering if this is a deflection piece to get Kesia out of the spotlight?

  82. K1 says:

    On a positive note, Findlay is the gift that keeps giving. What pettiness, what smearing lies, to sink so low is to reveal himself bereft of any credibility as a serious politician.

    And to mouth this off on the pages of the express reveals the audience he aims his lies at, further exposing his true agenda: clinging for dear life dependent upon those filled with the manufactured hate of the SNP…desperately seeking Findlay will sleep with right wing Tory supporting hate mongers just to get a wee dig in at the SNP.

    Socialist my arse! He’s a real pro!

  83. Petra says:

    O/T

    I see that Siobhan McBadyin has done a rerun of the Govanhill saga in the Express.

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon blasted after ‘fleeing constituency over rat infestation’ amid slum crisis.’

    Making a point of course in trying to stir up racial hatred as she focuses on discrediting Nicola with her lies. No mention either of Labour controlling Glasgow City Council for decades now.

    And, eh, have I missed something? Anyone else hear of thousands of women in Govanhill marching in protest of sex attacks?

    ……….

    ‘SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has abandoned her constituency office after it became plagued by rats, say campaigners.’

    ‘The constituency of Govanhill had 3,500 Romanian migrants packed into a few streets of ramshackle tenement blocks in Govanhill, in the south of Glasgow even before the nation’s accession to EU in January 2014.’

    ‘Thousands of women have been forced to march in the streets as they are forced to deal with a massive surge in sex attacks.’

  84. Greannach says:

    I’m surprised Neil ‘Fidel’ Findlay relies on the Daily Express for his information. I suppose he’ll be writing for them next.

  85. Ronnie says:

    It’s all one way traffic and it seems there’s no come back against it. Why doesn’t The National just publish a load of pish and lies about the Yoons every day?

  86. Fairliered says:

    Neil Findlay – an economy class politician.
    Or, megamouth on a megabus.

  87. robertknight says:

    Slabbering SLAB Red-Tory-Yoon MSP repeats MSM lies in SNP-Bad rant!

    Hardly headline news Rev..

  88. manandboy says:

    All Unionist politicians and most of the media, wear the same jerseys.

    With the exception of Jeremy Corbyn, and, lately, Kezia Dugdale, whenever a Unionist politician engages with the media, both are reading from the same set of instructions, which have come from the Commuications Office at 10 Downing St.

    The anti-Scottish Independence Unionist Alliance is clearly orchestrated from Westminster. Ninety nine per cent of the media are signed up to it as are the politicians. Why Kezia Dugdale has been given robust treatment recently by Ponsonby & Brewer is still a mystery.

    The point is that the spheres of politics and media have in the past, always been held as separate. No longer. The UK has become a Totalitarian State. A free press is essential to a democracy. For some time now, the media is but an arm of Government. The UK is no longer a Democracy.

  89. stuart young says:

    This is why i love wings and hate dicks like findlay

  90. jaygee says:

    I am surprised that the Scottish Gov. does not challenge the media in the courts. Even losing a case is better than than saying nothing as it will highlight the media bias.

    Partially winning did not enhance Carmichael’s reputation. The pity is it took ordinary (brave) constituents to make the challenge with help of crowd funding.

    There was little criticism of Robert Maxwell by the media media because they knew he would take them to court although they became brave after his demise.

    Perhaps a Gov.biting back may deter them and their lackeys from misrepresenting the facts.

  91. Silver19 says:

    OT: Hmmmm, Not sure what to say :- http://stv.tv/news/west-central/1368249-mp-natalie-mcgarry-charged-in-connection-with-fraud-offences/

    But the BBC Scotland will be going into overdrive shorty with SNPBAD!!! no doubt.

  92. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    O/T

    I see Her Grand Britannic Majesties Foreign Secretary is doing his bit to ensure Brexit negotiations run smoothly for the UK.

    “Britain will continue to support Turkey’s bid to join the European Union even after Britain itself leaves the bloc, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson says.”

    http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/uk-continues-to-support-turkeys-eu-bid/news-story/b18d7334a591f44735b26d0d8802bc4a

    Is this seriously the standard of negotiation May’s Govt. will employ “give us what we want or we will play silly buggers”??

    Or is this another statement of “personal opinion” rather than govt policy??

    Hard Brexit ahoy methinks!

    All hands to the lifeboats, women and children first.

  93. Marie Clark says:

    I’m not surprised or annoyed anymore at anything SLAB says or does. It’s just so much white noise now, just never stops whining away in the background all the time.

    I agree, what the express and that dumbo Findlay are up to is outrageous. It just doesn’t matter to them or the EBC they keep spewing out the sludge, and we do not seem to be able to do much about it. I wish the SG would challenge these lies and come out fighting sometimes. There is a time to haud yer wheesht, and a time to protect your reputation, so come on SNP, get the finger oot.

    O/T, I notice Smallaxe hasn’t checked in today. I hope he is not hor de combat.

  94. Brian McHugh says:

    Ronnie, I’m not a fan of the National (It’s a token Herald jesture and a cash cow for the Herald Group), but you don’t win people over with pish… long may the pish come from the unionist MSM… at least until Indy.

  95. Brian Powell says:

    Silver19

    With so much press and media speculation and coverage leading up to this will she be able to get a fair trial?

  96. manandboy says:

    I watched five tv interviews with Kezia last night; two each with Bernard Ponsonby & Gordon Brewer, and one with a girl who was unknown to me, at the Liverpool conference.

    In each interview, Kezia was the same. Notably, she said the same things, in the same tone of voice, with the same attitude and using a smile as if it was a communication tool.
    To speak to three different people, on three different occasions, one of which was before the Holyrood elections, is not consistent with a natural style.

    It would be all too easy to deduce that Kezia is ‘programmed’ completely, with a long tape of many pre-recorded answers loaded, with a manual select option. In her current setting, normal conversation is not available. There is no one else I can think of, who has been interview trained to this level of human voice answering machine.

    Maybe after the long succession of failed Slabber leaders, London Labour thought this was the answer.

  97. Brian Powell says:

    G A Ponsonby said that with Scottish Labour doing so badly there would be an anti-SNP story out by for Friday, so I suppose the STV item about N McGarry is it.

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    @Silver19
    Presumption of innocence until proven guilty is the way to go, same as it was when it all started.

    In theory for fraud, the intention to benefit has to be actually proven, but unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way, sometimes the presumption is that if someone actually benefitted, the person intended that to happen.

    My take at the time was that the accounting was rubbish, and a lot of small businesses would have that same problem differentiating between personal and business finances. If you need to buy supplies for the business you might pay cash or use personal card, and if you need money, the business can do it if you can’t at the time – it’ll all work out in the end, except it doesn’t if you’re a cr*p book-keeper!

  99. Ian says:

    The Press Complaints Committee –

    The current Code of Practice contains 16 articles dealing with a wide range of issues, including accuracy.

    Anyone can make a complaint to the PCC alleging breach by a newspaper or magazine of the Code. Complaints are free and do not require legal representation.

    The only ‘sanction’ for breach of the code is a requirement that the offending newspaper publish the findings of the PCC.

  100. Silver19 says:

    @Brian Powell

    Yep, G A Ponsonby is spot on, They must have been saving that one to help out the Red Tories. BBC has picked up on the story, Come BBC Scotland let’s have an 30 min documentary TV special as we know they will be itching to have a SNPBAD TV special.

  101. Arbroath1320 says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    27 September, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    O/T

    I see Her Grand Britannic Majesties Foreign Secretary is doing his bit to ensure Brexit negotiations run smoothly for the UK.

    “Britain will continue to support Turkey’s bid to join the European Union even after Britain itself leaves the bloc, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson says.”

    I find this absolutely hilarious Jockanese. Lest we all forget it was the LEAVE side during the referendum who were making outrageous claims that staying in the E.U. would mean that when Turkey joins 70 Million Turks would be flooding over to U.K. 😀

    NOW wee Boris the Doris is claiming to be supporting Turkey join the E.U.? 😉

  102. silver19 says:

    @yesindyref2 Let’s hope it’s an accounting issue.

  103. Vestas says:

    SNP Baaad!

    Diminishing returns on this sort of shite other than the clickbait aspect for the Express’ website.

    People take less and less notice as time goes by.

    SLAB are fucked regardless of anything they do on any policy.

    When a majority of Catholics in the West of Scotland vote SNP then SLAB are gone, toast. Dead.

    For those of you not old enough then the idea that a Glaswegian Catholic would vote for the SNP is almost beyond belief 35 years ago (SNP were presented as Tartan Tories at the time – no internet then to challenge that view).

    Game over for SLAB.

    The next #indyref is going to be fun as if you vote no then you are by definition a Tory. No ifs, buts or maybes, you’re a Tory.

  104. Bob Mack says:

    I hear Natalie Mcgarry has been charged with fraud. Comment not allowed in case of contempt of court.

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 27 September, 2016 at 1:47 pm@

    ” … Im at a loss as to why the SNP MPs don’t take out a class action on Express & Neil Findlay & Scott Arthur, in a Scottish Court”

    They wouldn’t be doing either themselves or Scotland any good by lowering themselves to the same strata in the cess pit as the Express and Findlay, Ronnie.

    People are got generally daft and they just need shown that the likes of Findlay and the Express are using each other to lie and besmirch decent SNP elected members.

    I’ve mentioned this before on Wings. During the Independence Referendum I used to regularly speak with a very English accented elderly lady. She was Scottish but had been educated in the English residential Public School sysyem.

    She was a staunch unionist. I tried for over a year to convince her that much of the things she claimed as truths were in fact lies. I made no progress whatsoever.

    Then I pointed out that the BBC were NOT reporting important events and giving quite misleading news reports. I gave her examples from that day’s news as evidence.

    Then. later on, right out of the blue the lady said, “I paid more attention than usual to how the BBC and my newspaper reported things and you were right and I’ll be voting for independence.

  106. starlaw says:

    Manandboy 3. 43pm

    I watch Kezia at interviews as well She does her best to get into pre rehearsed rants, when her voice speeds up quite a bit
    I know by this, that she is on the rehearsed rant (-:

  107. Desimond says:

    manandboy
    Why Kezia Dugdale has been given robust treatment recently by Ponsonby & Brewer is still a mystery.

    All Sharks by nature can smell blood in the water, even ones known for having little teeth.

  108. Desimond says:

    Just getting back to the main story above…reading Findlays tweet…its just reeks of jealousy.

    Like a moody nasty petted-lipped high school girl in a Teen romance movie who hates the new lead cheerleader who just came from Out of Town for nothing more than being more competent and likeable.

    Heathers of Holyrood

  109. Socrates MacSporran says:

    It should be remembered, when discussing Neil Findlay MSP. If he had been a wee bit cleverer and more presentable, he woud have made a perfect ‘Low Flying Jimmy’ around Westminster.

    But, he wasn’t clever enough, or presentable enough, so, we have to put up with him at Holyrood.

  110. HandandShrimp says:

    Not sure that the McGarry story has much in the way of SNPbad legs. If the PF decides to take the case to court and she is tried and found guilty it will be WFI and the SNP that have been wronged, not people outside the independence movement.

    However, innocent until proved guilty etc.,

  111. harry mcaye says:

    I don’t see how we can sweep the Natalie McGarry stuff under the carpet. She was elected as an SNP MP and has been charged with fraud. This isn’t the BBC’s doing. If she’s guilty, she’ll be banished from the party for good and there will have to be a by-election. We’ll just have to suck this one up I’m afraid. At least it looks likely that Michelle Thomson will be back in the party fold soon. If any unionists get too smug we could mention the little fact about a former First Minister having to quit office because of wrongdoing. Plus, Sam Allardyce might take some of the heat off her too!

  112. yesindyref2 says:

    I said: “it’ll all work out in the end, except it doesn’t if you’re a cr*p book-keeper!”

    Ironically the HMRC seems to be more understandng of that. They have been for a long time, something perhaps the dreaded Gordon Brown brought in early naughties, but possibly more so now as a result of EU moves to make life easier for micro-entities. Something you would never read about in the Express. But I don’t think The Law has kept up with the realisation that we’re all human and not perfect little form-filling ants.

  113. chris kilby says:

    Love the sneering about the “tribune of the people.” That doesn’t reek of SLab bitterness, frustration, resentment, entitlement or good old-fashioned green-eyed jealousy in the slightest.

  114. Soda says:

    Are you sure there are no business class flights between Edinburgh and London?

  115. Edward says:

    Arbroath1320 @ 2.23pm

    Actually the 767’s used on the London/Scotland routes are configured high density ‘Euro Traveller / Domestic’ seating as they are also used on certain London- European sectors prior to being used on the late evening flight to Scotland 🙂

    http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/British_Airways/British_Airways_Boeing_767-300_C.php

  116. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Arbroath1320 says at 3:58 pm

    Aye I well remember the threats of “all those Turks coming to sign on, take the last remaining council houses and overwhelm the NHS”

    Boris was wittering on, on RT about having a Turkish made Washing machine in his house (by this I suspect he means that the woman who operates the washing machine is Turkish). 🙂

    All this UKOK access to dirty great wads of Global Trade that the Brexiteers and now Mrs May keep saying are coming our way must be pretty piss poor if we will be needing to import our cheap white goods from Turkey.

    I assume they’ve given up on the Germans Imports now they realise that the trade tax will be imposed and what about the massive Chinese Market??

  117. chris kilby says:

    What the hell is a Labour MSP playing at quoting from the Labour-hating Express in the first place? What SLabour spectacularly fails to realise, of course, is that “My enemy’s enemy” cuts both ways. And Scots are no longer surprised or disappointed by Labour routinely allying itself with Tories against them. In fact, we expect it now. That’s how far SLabour has fallen. And they can’t even see it. Cos they are so blinded by their irrational hatred of the SNP.

  118. Let him eat flags.

    He trousers £1200 a week plus expenses from my pocket, failed as a constituency hopeful, and got in the back door because unseen hands voted him onto the abject failures list.

    Just shows us what an evil nasty little group the dung beetles feeding off the pile of manure that is the So Called Scottish Labour Party is. They picked this big waster as their first and second choice.

    The Failed Bricklayer lied at the Labour conference; he is a liar again today.

    He is no more a socialist than that odious Mone Bra Seller.

    Mhairi Black is fighting for women’s pension rights, yet this feeble excuse of a human being smears her with lies.

    Come the revolution, we should consign Findlay, Kelly, Baillie, Dugdale,and the thousands of Red Blue and Yellow Tory Unionist prats to the political bin.

    He thinks that he can hurl a disgusting slur at a genuinely refreshing young politician and get away with it.
    Maybe he is a homophobe? Is it because she is gay? We demand to know. Is Neil Findlay a gay basher? (you get where I’m going with this.)

    Findlay is a ‘shovel faced’ liar.

    I won’t hold my breath waiting for Distorting Scotland exposing this smear.
    Come on Gordon, get him on the late night The Union 2016 show.

    The Fat men of Project Smear; money for old jam.
    As for the Express Dead Tree Scroll?
    I wouldn’t wipe my ….

  119. Edward says:

    Soda @ 4.30pm

    Can confirm there is no ‘Business Class’ on UK domestic routes
    BA’s business class products are only ‘Club Europe’ and ‘Club World’

  120. Arbroath1320 says:

    Thanks for that wee correction Edward. 😛

  121. Soda says:

    Thanks Edward, help an infrequent flyer out would you? Why does it say business class on the travelsupermarket site? Are these flights not donestic routes?

    https://www.travelsupermarket.com/en-gb/flights/results/EDI/2016-10-25/LON/2016-11-01/2/0/0/B/0/false/true/

  122. Capella says:

    The US has a Bill of Rights and Constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of the press. We don’t. Nevertheless, ownership of the media is insidious in both countries. What could the SNP gain by attacking the Express? Nothing IMO. They will have sailed just within the law. They are free to lie and smear. Suing for damages is the only remedy but a challenge won’t stick if they have printed the facts at the foot of the article.

    What Stu is doing in analysing and publicising their sleazy methods is far more important. Supporting the altenrnative media, blogs, and The National, is having the desired effect.

    Their circulation figures drop. The majority ignore their hysterical ranting, and the electability of the SNP just keeps on rising.

  123. Scott says:

    BBC Scotland did not take them long.

    MP Natalie McGarry charged over fraud allegations

    1 hour ago

    From the section Scotland politics

    They were not so quick reporting about him.

    Tory millionaire MSP Alexander Burnett reported to police amid claims he broke election spending rules

    Or this one.

    Lib Dem MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton faces expenses probe

  124. heedtracker says:

    Great example of BBC Scotland vote SLabour propaganda, from Kez says JC will never be and electable Prime Minister, to big hugs and kisses. Its just one more BBC Scotland propaganda thing but its a cracker even for those gimps.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37483113

  125. Maria F says:

    Mr Findlay:

    I can see that you are very concerned about the level of expense imposed on the taxpayer with having to transport the Scottish Members of the Westminster Parliament continuously to London in order to fulfill their roles.

    Well, Sir, I don’t mean to be rude, but your party has a huge share of the responsibility for those expenses.

    Why?

    Well, the only reason why those Scottish MPs are forced to travel down to London to fulfill their duties is because they cannot do their work from Scotland.

    Had your party not engaged in that embarrassing enterprise of project fear, bullying project of demeaning the Scottish people by making them believe that their wealthy country is too poor and too wee, and lying project of enticing the public with a myriad of promises that have been broken one by one and counting, we would be independent by now.

    I am sorry sir, but I think it is time to stop the irritating whining that the Labour party is so used to throw at us and, for once, do the grown up thing of manning up to the mistakes of your party and the responsibility that comes with dealing with the consequences of those mistakes.

    Well, I am truly amazed that a man of your sharp level of scrutiny looking at MPs expenses didn’t come up straight away with the best solution that there is to be to cut right down the expenses of Scottish MPs traveling to London:

    Scottish Independence

    So Sir, do you want to wipe off those expenses from the public purse?

    Then support independence. It couldn’t be easier.

  126. galamcennalath says:

    Dugdale announces BLiS’s new improved autonomy will mean …. “Scottish Labour will be better placed to stand up for Labour values in Scotland” … which to me means BLiS will only be autonomous for devolved issues.

    What’s new!? Was that not the previous arrangement?

    And, BLiS get a guaranteed seat on the NEC.

    OK, can anyone explain how, if BLiS stand by their anti Trident policy this will have any effect on the pro Trident position of Labour overall?

    I believe that was rhetorical. BLiS will have no influence whatsoever on any reserved matter.

    Smoke and mirrors for the gullible.

  127. Bob Mack says:

    You cannot have autonomy when you sit on a Committee that sets the rules for the National movement. You can have a vote,but the majority carries the day and sets the guidelines within which you have to operate. Labour talk s*^t.
    How dumb can they be ?

  128. Edward says:

    soda @ 4.41 pm

    Quite funny actually as there really is no Business class on domestic routes
    You can see from the BA.com when you put in London to Edinburgh or Glasgow. then go to choice of flight class, you only get economy

    Travelsupermarket could get done for offering Business class on routes where it doesn’t exist 🙂

  129. mike cassidy says:

    Anybody know anything about this claim by Findlay?

    http://archive.is/ndgnt

  130. Petra says:

    @ Arbroath1320 says at 3:58 pm ….”Aye I well remember the threats of all those Turks coming to sign on, take the last remaining council houses and overwhelm the NHS….. NOW wee Boris the Doris is claiming to be supporting Turkey join the E.U.?”?

    @ Jockanese Wind Talker says at 4:31 pm …. ”Boris was wittering on, on RT about having a Turkish made Washing machine in his house (by this I suspect he means that the woman who operates the washing machine is Turkish).” ?

    Boris the great advocate of Brexit: The man who wants to keep ‘foreigners’ out of the UK was born in New York.

    He’s the great-grandson of the Circassian–Turkish journalist Ali Kemal on his paternal side whilst on his maternal side he is of mixed English, French and Russian Jewish descent.

    What a hypocrite and absolute troublemaker. What business is it of his what the EU decides to do in relation to the Turks, especially taking into account that he didn’t want them migrating to the UK?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal

  131. heedtracker says:

    Its interesting how really heavy vote SLab BBC Scotland propaganda never has a byline, unless Scotland politics is some BBC creep’s name. But this is they get the mega bucks for,

    “Ms Dugdale had been a high-profile backer of Owen Smith’s leadership bid ahead of Mr Corbyn being re-elected as Labour leader
    on Saturday.

    When asked whether he believed Labour could win an election in Scotland, Mr Corbyn responded: “We can win a lot of support in Scotland”, before saying that the Scottish party was “in good heart” after an increase in its membership and three council by-election wins.”

  132. Petra says:

    @ Maria F says at 5:06 pm ….Mr Findlay: I can see that you are very concerned about the level of expense imposed on the taxpayer with having to transport the Scottish Members of the Westminster Parliament continuously to London in order to fulfill their roles.”

    I would imagine that he’s also beelie bags that the Labour Party in Scotland no longer have 50 plus MPs travelling between Scotland and London. Remember the crew that sat on their backsides in the Commons, or in the subsidised bars, for decades and did nought for the Scots?

    Remember the crew, such as Murphy and Sarwar, that were claiming extortionate expenses year after year? Not just for travel but for accommodation, utility bills and so on. Murphy renting out his house in London whilst he charged the tax-payers for staying in hotels.

    Murphy, Sarwar et al at the top of the ‘highest expense claims’ list. Outdoing even the Tories.

  133. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Graun asks,

    “Labour conference 2016

    Why isn’t Labour debating Brexit at its conference?
    UK’s decision to leave EU is not one of the eight subjects chosen for debate but that doesn’t mean it isn’t being discussed”

    There is no answer, just another day of red tory bullshit. Maybe Pacific Quay gimps will tell their Scotland region tonight. But probably wont.

  134. mike cassidy says:

    Right.

    Pay attention!

    The Dug has barked.

    Autonomy, ya bass!

    http://archive.is/MLinx

  135. Brian Powell says:

    There have been a couple of legal types on twitter reminding people that contempt of court applies to anything written on Twitter as well as other media in relation to Court cases.

  136. arthur thomson says:

    I have no doubt that the anti SNP/Scottish Government attacks are co-ordinated and that the MSM are key agents in the process. I equally have no doubt that the MSM are being paid for their work to offset their loss of sales as people realise that they are constantly promoting lies.

    Why do I have no doubt? Because lies is all they have and lies are their stock in trade. They will see it as an investment. Peanuts to control monkeys.

    What can the SNP do about it? Only what they are doing now, treating it with the utter contempt that it deserves. To engage with the crap would very quickly lead to the accusation that ‘they protesteth too much’ – and that would be harder to deal with because it would rapidly become true.

    Ultimately, we depend on an increasing number of Scots (whatever their origin) seeing through their tactic, being appalled by it and joining us to defeat it. The hardened support for independence tells me that is what is happening, slowly but surely. We have to stand fast and weather the s**t storm.

  137. Petra says:

    @ Nana says at 5:24 pm … ”I think I have done myself an injury laughing.”

    Yeah Corbyn the Cracker, lol.

    And another article from the site Nana.

    http://www.commonspace.scot/articles/9221/5-things-you-should-know-about-our-new-report-division-assets-debts-independent

  138. mike cassidy says:

    Nana 5.24

    Do you think he consulted with the Dug first?

    Given SLB is autonomous and all that.

  139. Col says:

    DWP used to (and probably still do) send their staff down south on business class tickets. If journos are serious about pursuing the waste of taxpayers money maybe they should examine that? I suspect there would be considerably more than 56 individuals.

  140. Robert Louis says:

    What is wrong with Labour folk? Are they all stupid? Why do Labour MSP’s continually come out with utter rubbish like this.

    As others have pointed out, getting the London shuttle, exclusively run by British airways nowadays, as a monopoly since BMI (and then a lacklustre Virgin, who didn’t really try hard) dropped the route, is pretty grim. As a monopoly, the service is now pretty poor, legroom has been reduced, and as others point out, as their is only a single airline running the route, the planes are always packed – and the days of hot meals etc for everyone.. are long gone.

    All the joy (and it really used to exist) has been sucked out of flying within Europe. It is now the most awful way to travel.

    Just as a technicality, their is no such thing as business class on BA domestic ( for foreign flights, BA calls it either club Europe or club world – so in reality, their actually is no such thing as ‘business’ class on ANY BA flight, it’s CLUB class).

    BA classes are domestic (economy), Euro traveller (economy), world traveller (economy), world traveller plus (premium economy), club Europe (‘business’), Club world (business), club world (London City), First. Their used to be another class on BA, above First, which if I remember correctly was R class – supersonic (concorde).

    Honestly, flying to any London airport nowadays is such a grim experience, it is to be avoided at all costs. If I were an MP I’d get the sleeper, but then unless you want to share a cabin with some stranger, it is usually more expensive than flying. (sighs..)

  141. ronnie anderson says:

    O/T
    https://www.facebook.com/martinjameskeatings/videos/vb.100010229651466/333419457009040/?type=2&theater&notif_t=live_video_interaction&notif_id=1474992633874048

    Now that there is some representation in Court Indycamp as it should have been, exposing the Corporate Corruption of Holyrood.

  142. Ken500 says:

    Cameron May has a £800Million new jet. The Royals cost £400Million including protection etc. The Tory Royals on a trip to Canada. Cost?

    £10Billion of ‘unidentified’? Expenses on Gers Account sheet. Fraudulent.

    Unionist Illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion, Trident etc – Cost £Billions.

    The unelected Unionist multimillionaires plundering £Billions from the public purse and lying warmongers. Lying, criminal cheats, crooks fraudsters and child molesters. There should be drug and drinks tests in Westminster. £Billion to be spent renovating the cess pit. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable.

    Independence can’t come soon enough so no more public funds are spent on Westminster corruption or the sinking MSM.

  143. Kevin Evans says:

    Am not an MP or msp so I don’t mind disclosing that business class seat is Emirates business class. Been on them a few times (free upgrade I might add). Also the other pic is the Scottish Parliament and not Westminster. So there is so much wrong with that photo and story is mind boggling why it’s not in the fiction section of the news.

  144. Gary45% says:

    Thanks for this Stu, It looks like the gutter press and the Yoons are doing us a big favour by printing more of this type of garbage daily.
    Expect Ruthie Jong Un and the rest of the Yoons to say on this weeks FMQs that the SNP are still flying on Concorde and sailing on the Titanic,
    (Reporting Shortbread exclusive)with the sneering Turd.

    Neil Findlay= Sevco FUD

  145. Tinto Chiel says:

    mike cassidy says:

    “Anybody know anything about this claim by Findlay?

    http://archive.is/ndgnt

    mike, would you accept a used statistic from this guy?

    He’s got eclectic taste, I have to say: one minute The Daily Express, The Morning Star the next.

    Bet he gets The Beano on a Wednesday for the political news.

  146. Ken500 says:

    MSM lies about the Oil sector. The tax is 40%. Osbourne kept the tax at 60% – 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Osbourne ruined the Oil sector, deliberately, to try and stop Independence. Losing Scotland £4Billion+ a year and thousands of jobs. Weetminster policies ruin the Scottish economy. More Oil & Gas has to be imported.

    The Tories have banned wind turbines in England. Banned coal production in the UK. Refused permission for CCS at Longannet in Fife. Refused permission for CCS project at Peterhead, despite £Millions being invested. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituency,

    The Tories are building a nuclear plant at Hinkley Point a total waste of pubic money. HS2 is a total waste of time and money with absolutely no business case.

  147. Struan says:

    Good god labour great snp bad honestly this movements fucked without some good media and with so many against us stv and BBC they’ve already won people

  148. Nana says:

    @Petra

    Ta for reminding me, spotted it but I was laughing so much it went out of my head.

    Labour economic development summit oh crivens I’m off again
    There may be no links tomorrow due to side splitting injuries.

    @Mike Cassidy sure he must have consulted with autonomous Dugdale, I mean she has a huge mandate don’t you know. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that talk lol

  149. Ken500 says:

    Those unelected lying Tories are a disgrace to democracy. Peter Chapman is an absolute embarrassment, along with the rest.

  150. Ken500 says:

    SNP/SNP May 2017

    Please

  151. Gary45% says:

    Struan@6.16
    Maybe years ago this might have been the case, but with the internet becoming more of a factual news source, the old ” tell lies on the telly and in the “News?papers”and the electorate will simply forget, (the old keep them stupid)
    NOT ANYMORE.
    The one good thing is the Yoons still don’t get it.

  152. Clootie says:

    …it drives me nuts that the unionist media will leave this lie to run. Unfortunately it will be mainly Independence supporters who learn the truth through the great work of this site.

    One day Scotland will have a media that is not bound to the interests of another nation.

  153. t42 says:

    seems whenever there is an expenses scandal involving unionist MP’s, a fake story to lump SNP MPs in as troughers appears. To create “they’re all the same”.
    Pattern emerging..

  154. dakk says:

    @ Iain
    ‘I recall once sitting behind Donald Dewar on a BA Trident (that tells you how long ago it was), but the point is that I could read all his notes because of the confined seating arrangements.’

    i can readily picture his ‘to do’list.

    1. Show gushing deference to PM when signing off annex of 6000 sq. miles of Scottish waters.

    2. Go for celebratory drink in Strangers Bar.

    3. Sit well back from Eric Joyce.

  155. Maria F says:

    Petra says:
    27 September, 2016 at 5:29 pm

    “Remember the crew, such as Murphy and Sarwar, that were claiming extortionate expenses year after year?…
    Murphy, Sarwar et al at the top of the ‘highest expense claims’ list. Outdoing even the Tories”

    he, he, he. Absolutely Petra and the Rev article highlighting the saving of the 56 SNPs compared with previous Labour MPs in the same roles should be plastered everywhere for everybody to see.

    But don’t you agree that it is a wonderfully sweet irony that the only reason why people is realising and paying attention to just how much those labour (and other unionist) MPs took advantage of the taxpayer’s purse is because Labour stopped Scotland becoming independent?

    Had Labour not engaged in that dishonest (the claim that we would struggle to get organ transplants in Scotland if we would become independent will haunt me for decades), petty and misleading campaign against indy1, the expenditure of those 56 SNPs could not be used as a model to assess how badly the SLabour MPs did.

    “Don’t judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.” (RL Stevenson)

    He, he, he. Keep them coming Rev!

  156. Robert Graham says:

    Well f/k me if i had all the print and broadcast media on call 24 hours a day promoting unionist pap i would be expecting better results , Why haven’t these pesky Nat’s not disappeared what the f/k is going on turn up the volume oh f/k we have ok turn it down see if that works they dont bloody get ha ha .
    Yep snp in 2017 f/ck the rest of them no second preference including Patrick’s gang , nice aint working so gloves off you listening Greens .

  157. heedtracker says:

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 36m36 minutes ago
    Scott Arthur Retweeted Scott Arthur
    Ian Murray manages to keep the costs down: https://twitter.com/DrScottThinks/status/780020442606268416

    Dr NO! strikes back. Ian Murray on £ZERO. Ian probably hitch hikes up the A1(M)

    @Scotland_future @RuthDavidsonMSP
    Scott Arthur added,
    Scott Arthur @DrScottThinks
    Business Class travel at taxpayers’ expense:
    SNP MP Angus MacNeil – £18,151
    Tory MP David Mundell – £8,458
    Labour MP Ian Murray – £ZERO
    2 retweets 0 likes
    Reply Retweet 2
    Like

  158. drawdeaddave says:

    No wonder wee Willie Rennie & the yoon army want you shut down Rev. They tried to smear you, they tried to blacken your name, yet it only served to make you more relevant & popular than before, no matter what smears & lies are thrown in their direction, i suspect SNP & the yes movement will benefit likewise..

  159. Capella says:

    BBC publishes figures for unemployment i.e. deprivation. Their table is in no particular order. Shows the North/South divide is getting worse. Shock.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37483404

  160. HandandShrimp says:

    Are you sure there are no business class flights between Edinburgh and London?

    Soda

    There are no business or club class seats on domestic flights (bit pointless for a one hour hop where the emphasis is to move numbers rather than offer luxury)

    Business UK is the flexible ticket that means you are not faffing around trying to swap flights and pay surcharges if you are delayed by your business taking longer than expected. Business UK also allows you into BA’s lounge where you can pour yourself a coffee and have a wee triangular sandwich or two and read the papers. The photo of the fancy long haul executive class seat is a straight forward bare faced lie. You will not see the likes on domestic short haul flights and the Express know that.

  161. Legerwood says:

    Scotland has 59 constituencies returning 59 MPs. Those 59 MPs have to travel to Westminster. Therefore there will be a cost which has absolutely nothing to do with their politics.

    Looking at the totals over the last few years they seem relatively similar, apart from 2013/14 – wonder what happened that year? In each of the years 59 MPs were travelling up and down therefore you would expect the total costs to be broadly similar which they more or less are and seem to be on a downward trajectory.

    Pre-2015 only 6 SNPs contributed to the totals. But, and this cannot be repeated often enough, the cost reflects the numbers of MPs and not politics. There are no political points to be made out of this. It is a matter of geography and representation not politics.

    Therefore what exactly is the point of this story with all of its inaccuracies?

  162. Another Union Dividend says:

    Heedtracker at 6.48 pm

    Has anyone checked out Ian Murray’s Office expenses?

    Ian Murray must have been struggling on his £66,396 a year salary as according to the Edinburgh Evening News, on 6th November 2013 he claimed the highest amount of any Lothian MP for his energy bill of over £747. Good to see taxpayers paying for an early energy freeze for MPs when many are struggling to heat their homes.

    The Edinburgh South Labour MP claimed a total of £181,840 in expenses, on top of his salary, including the third highest amount in the UK for his Constituency Office at £26,593 which is crazy as since Devolution Scottish MPs have fewer responsibilities than English MPs. His office is rented from the former disgraced MP Nigel Griffiths.

    The Office expenses don’t include his staff salaries amounting to £121,430 which also provides extra household income by employing his partner as a secretary.

    http://www.parliamentary-standards.org.uk/ViewAnnualisedTransactionalData.aspx

    In 2013 / 14 his expenses came to £ £189,015.53

    Haven’t checked more recently

  163. Fireproofjim says:

    OT
    BBC report Natalie McGarry has been charged with embezzlement in a case brought by Women for Independence.
    Wait for the SNP BAD tomorrow.
    Whatever the truth.of the matter our representatives must be always whiter than white because we have no friends in the MSM.

  164. heedtracker says:

    Another Union Dividend says:
    27 September, 2016 at 7:17 pm
    Heedtracker at 6.48 pm

    Has anyone checked out Ian Murray’s Office expenses?

    Its only a Dr NO! tweet. Everything that red tory tweets has to be taken with a truck load of UKOK salt. The chances of a red tory ligger like Murray paying his own flights back and for to Edinburgh, are nil.

  165. John says:

    Gotta say, the best moniker I have seen for our lamentable national news program in a long time is on this thread: “BBC Distorting jockland”.

    That needs to be promoted and popularised. Well done to whoever came up with that.

  166. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Findlay is an MSP.

  167. Dr Jim says:

    The Labour party in Scotland who came third in the elections but couldn’t actually get anybody to directly vote for them, So a party who has seats on the list, votes for their leader who didn’t get voted in by the public and got in on the list also, goes to the Labour party conference and demands to be heard so she can gerrymander the voting system even though nobody actually voted for her there either

    There are probably party delegates at the Labour conference who got more votes from their local branch then Kezia Dugdale got from the whole of the unelected Scottish Labour party who will never be elected again in Scotland

    Who says democracy’s dead eh, It’s no wonder folk get right put off by politics especially the contrivances of the Labour Party

  168. Balaaargh says:

    Having done the red eye to Heathrow/London City from Edinburgh a few times in the last 8 years or so, the closest you get to business class is the “economy plus” ticket which gets you a free toastie and a coffee/tea/juice.

    But that was dependant on the airline. And you still sat amongst the plebs.

  169. mike cassidy says:

    Here’s one the Rev prepared earlier about the writer of the Express bollocks above –

    indulging in a little unionist-journalist coitus with Sarah Smith

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScSarHy2nLQ

  170. Auld Rock says:

    Like to know what Liar Carmichael’s bill is?

    Auld Rock

  171. heedtracker says:

    Historywoman Retweeted
    Citizen Tammy #763 ?@ToALouse 2h2 hours ago
    BBC Reporting Scotland, must’ve had Nats spinning.
    1st up, McGarry.
    2nd Shale shipment
    3rd Oil jobs crisis
    4th GP shortage.
    Sorry state.

    It’s just another toryboy day at the Pacific Quay office and did they forget to smear Black? So Nat’s probably not spinning.

  172. Capella says:

    Just discovered there’s a Department for Exiting the European Union. Top news item on their website is dated 9th September. So not much happening there then.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-exiting-the-european-union

    Meanwhile, Guy Verhofstadt, who is the EU negotiator for BREXIT, is having some fun at our expense.
    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/780771443906908160

  173. manandboy says:

    Corbyn is happy for Kezia to appoint a Scottish representative to the National Executive Committee of the Labour (Unionist) Party.
    Kezia immediately appoints herself! Who would have guessed that!

  174. galamcennalath says:

    @Capella

    https://www.facebook.com/GuyVerhofstadt/posts/10155001346840016

    Aye, Guy Verhofstadt doesn’t seem to have a very high opinion of the WM gang either.

  175. Onwards says:

    harry mcaye says:
    27 September, 2016 at 4:21 pm

    I don’t see how we can sweep the Natalie McGarry stuff under the carpet. She was elected as an SNP MP and has been charged with fraud. This isn’t the BBC’s doing. If she’s guilty, she’ll be banished from the party for good and there will have to be a by-election. We’ll just have to suck this one up I’m afraid..
    ————

    I remember her previously denying all wrongdoing.
    I don’t know why these “Women for Independence” campaigners, and Natalie McGarry couldn’t sort it out amongst themselves, rather than getting police involved and all sorts of bad publicity. It’s ridiculous.

  176. defo says:

    “Low-wattage Labour list MSP Neil Findlay”

    Quality put down Rev. Not harsh in the least.

  177. Still Positive. says:

    Onwards @ 10.13

    Re Natalie McGarry the thing that struck me most when all this came out was that WfI didn’t have a bank account until their first AGM almost a year after they were formed.

    Many years ago I worked in a bank, and it’s not just because of that, but anyone setting up a group – especially if money is involved – should start with a Constitution including banking arrangements.

    For example: if any one of us was set up say a Residents Association or some such, then the first thing you would do is vote for the office-bearers; the banking requirements; and the aims of your organisation.

  178. heedtracker says:

    BBC Newsnight guy just the now intros Labour conference infighting as a herpes flare up:D Lab dude he’s interview waffles away and the BBC guy says Labour in Wales have today hiked student fees from £4k to £9k! Socialist workers unite. Oh yes.

  179. manandboy says:

    Oil & Gas UK Chief in 2016 Report, says nothing about lack of oil in N Sea but calls for new fiscal arrangements and new investment.
    Oh, here comes Theresa & Phil – sorry all you Scots, N Sea oil is worthless, no point in a Referendum now.

    http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?hpf=1&a_id=146787&utm_source=DailyNewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=2016-09-27&utm_content=&utm_campaign

    The UK Continental Shelf is in urgent need of fresh investment to boost exploration and drive activity, according to Oil & Gas UK Chief Execuitve Deirdre Michie.

    “Exploration has fallen to record lows and little new investment has been approved in 2016 and 2017 looks no better,” said Michie in a statement marking the release of Oil & Gas UK’s Economic Report 2016.

    “In light of this I am calling on governments today to vigorously champion the UK’s oil and gas industry, by providing certainty in our fiscal regime, encouraging new entrants to the market and recognizing our supply chain as vitally important to the economy,” Michie added.

    Michael Burns, energy partner at law firm Ashurst supported Michie’s view and encouraged the UK Government to change its fiscal strategy.

    “The industry is working hard to adjust to an oil price that is likely to be the ‘new normal’ for some time to come. However, to attract new investment in the UK oil and gas sector, the UK Government must continue to engage with the industry and implement further fiscal reforms,” he said.

    The call for fresh investment comes as Oil & Gas UK revealed that the cost of extracting a barrel of oil or gas from the UK Continental Shelf has nearly been cut by 45 percent since 2014.

  180. heedtracker says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37472148

    Evan of Newsnight is right. BBC Scotlandesque pile of bullshit trying to spin the Welsh fee hike cost reality.

  181. manandboy says:

    LibDems accuse May of Immigration dirty tricks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/theresa-may-accused-trying-to-alter-immigration-report

    Theresa May faced accusations from within government that she tried to remove evidence about the positive impact of immigration on the British economy from a critical report that was published before the EU referendum.

    Correspondence seen by the Guardian lays bare a six-month tussle between Conservative and Liberal Democrat advisers over the study, which was part of a government-wide exercise into the pros and cons of EU membership.

    Emails dating back to 2014 show Lib Dem advisers, who were then in government as part of the coalition, complaining repeatedly about May’s interventions.

    They claimed internally that the then home secretary was determined to paint a negative picture of Britain’s relationship with European countries when it came to immigration.The exchanges suggested that May wanted to claim that “benefits tourism” was a serious problem, attracting immigrants into Britain.

    But the advisers said there was little evidence to support the assertion, suggesting instead that internal DWP figures might underline it as a “small-scale problem”.

    “My impression is that Conservative secretaries of state are determined not to admit this,” wrote one participant. Another said: “The home secretary is also deeply committed to the argument that free movement allows foreign criminals into the UK.”

    The suggestion will be seized on by pro-EU campaigners who believe that May made it harder for David Cameron to argue for Britain’s continued membership. (more)

  182. Dr Jim says:

    See little known Tory paedophiles are of low level interest to the media when it can nail a really big fish like a SNP MP over a petty cash drawer, but even if there’s no wrong doing the mud will stick and that’s the main thing eh

    And some more Tories wipe their brow and say Phew! Ta much BBC and press for keeping the focus off us

    Funny how these same press have gone really quiet on Michelle Thompson now that there is to be no action by the police and no wrong doing found (What’s that? thought I heard something there must’ve been wrong eh)

  183. Arbroath1320 says:

    Look out peeps … we’re all ****** now!

    https://twitter.com/ScotIndyDebate/status/780552028393238528

    😀

  184. Tam Jardine says:

    Some drivel on STV Scotland Today the night- SNP’s McGarry charged after she was elected as an SNP MP whose role model is Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader etc etc. SNP won’t comment, Nicola Sturgeon won’t comment, amazingly on the ongoing police matter (which sounds kind of shifty STV wants you to deduce all by yourself)

    Ineos Saint Radcliffe saving the Scottish economy by shipping in gas- intransigent SNP harming investment and jobs for no good reason. Someone whose tap water is now poisonous in Pennsylvania gets all of about 3 secs on screen. SNP rep all at sea whilst Murdo rationalising that we might as well fuck the country rather than fuck someone else’s because it makes more sense.

    Murdo tells us he wouldn’t mind a bit of fracking under his house channelling that dude who ate DDT on telly to prove it was safe back in the day.

    Next up the traditional bigging up of SLab autonomy in the kind of paper thin analysis anyone reading this site could tear apart. The NEC, the most powerful group in labour just granted slab autonomy, the very same autonomy they have been falsely claiming to have enjoyed for years. Kez sounding upbeat and its one in the eye for the SNP somehow. Gone is the bruising interview style we briefly enjoyed- back to slab advertising.

    Some stuff about the oil industry being shite and then its over to newsnight for more analysis of the wonderful people’s party- the self same peoples party which chose the biggest crisis the UK has seen since the war to tear itself apart.

    Much talk of power and winning elections- the national interest doesn’t really get a look in. Vanity, idiocy, pomposity and drivel drivel drivel all the way to spring/summer 2017.

    Christ, am I going to have to invoke article 50 masel?

  185. I am totally disgusted with Neil Findlay’s comments. I used to regard him as a decent socialist minded person but if he is prepared to side with a paper like the “express” then there goes another good ex-socialite. whorra prick

  186. heedtracker says:

    Christ, am I going to have to invoke article 50 masel?

    Its just logical vote SLabour political propaganda for BBC Scotland, pile in really hard, like tonight’s tv news and all during Labour’s highest profile conference week. BBC Scotland radio news was even more aggressive.

    They wont get so much legitimate 3rd party air time for another year, not least in Scotland. So it’ll reach peak BBC Scotland vote SLab/SNP bad hysteria by Friday and tail off over the weekend to normal SNP bad levels. Make SLab hay while they shit all over Scotland, is the Pacific Quay way.

    Dr NO! very excited by BBC Scotland tonight. 16% mind. The only way is down. Imagine what it actually feels like for all the SLab twerps in their Pacific Quay bunker?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvvW-PE7UYg

  187. Capella says:

    @ galamcennaleth 9.25 – ha ha, that link to G Vs facebook is hilarious for the comments! People are as embarrassed as I feel to have such a moronic bunch of politicians swanning around predicting bonanza deals from the EU after BREXIT.

    Glad we’re amusing our EU cousins. Least we can do!

  188. manandboy says:

    Strictly O/T

    England Manager Sam Allardyce sacked after 67 days.

    “The manager of the England men’s senior team is a position which must demonstrate strong leadership and show respect for the integrity of the game at all times”. FA statement.

    He needn’t come up here, that’s for sure. The SFA are very clear about the value of integrity in Scottish football – sfa.

  189. Liz g says:

    OT.. Sorry/Not Sorry.
    Message for Smallaxe….if you are minded to only chat on the main thread and don’t like me saying I will try to keep things over on Off Topic just say.
    There’s pro’s and con’s on either side of the debate & therefore no right and no wrong.
    Being right on this doesn’t really matter to me.
    I was trying to find a bit of middle ground.
    I will keep chatting here and argue it from everyone except the Rev for obvious reasons,if it matters to you,and I’m sorry if I have been the cause of your distress.
    But however you feel about things now can you please let me know your keeping ok,and while I can understand you not wanting to chat ,will you / can you just say…Hi…X
    I am may I remind you not above emotional blackmail so do you really want to be responsible for keeping me from my sleep the one night I might actually be able to?
    Think about that then!!!!! Ha X

  190. Cherry says:

    Lizg must admit you put a wee smile on my face ? like you I am a night owl and pop in just to see if anyone’s there. ? hope Smallaxe is ok too ? tonight I’m having a nice milky coffee, watching Law and Order SVU then off to bed! ?

  191. Cherry says:

    Oops all those ? Were smilies oh well 😉

  192. Liz g says:

    Cherry @ 1.36
    If we only could admit….. Night Owl’s…is code for being too feart we miss anything…

  193. Cherry says:

    Yes you could be right 🙂 I read every post on here everyday have been doing that for 2 years…best blog ever! 🙂

  194. scotspine says:

    Had to laugh this morning at the Ineos goon appearing on Radio Northern Colony.

    He was defending safety records of the Fracking technique by suggesting that “accidents happen with fracking and cant be helped, just like a puncture on your car tyre” (FFS!). Must be some size of a tyre that bursts and causes an earthquake or pollutes a watercourses.

    The fudrick then went on to say “you do want a hot showers in the morning, dont you?”, insinuating that the fracked gas will be used for energy. Can someone explain to me how fracked gas, that is turned into tiny plastic spheres for injection moulding into plastic components for cheap consumer pish, can heat my water?

    These folk are simply full of horseshit!

    The liars and deceivers on the radio lead these establishment goons with pantomime questions to set up and elicit a pantomime answer to try and pull the wool over the populace.

    The Colonial radio is ramping up now that a second Indyref is coming. All things Union good and anything shite is the fault of the SNP.

    Watch FM questions on Thursday for examples. It doesnt matter how well the FM fields the co-ordinated battery of questions. In the bulletins that follow, there will be carefully selected segments of Dugdale, Davidson and Rennies witterings designed to make her and our Govt look bad, yet no recording of the FMs actual answer showing them up as idiots, just a bland one liner interpretation by the “reporter”.

    The colonial radio is simply the enemy of democracy in Scotland. Thats right, The Enemy.

    That said, I also get annoyed with supposedly pro independence folk who continue their employment with that organisation (Ricky Ross, Stuart Cosgrove etc).

    Anyone working for the BBC is working for Westminster and against Scotland.

    Its intetesting that no one from BBC has ever complained to the Police about so called intimidation (e.g Pacific Quay protests in 2014) which they griped about and made a fuss over at the time of the referendum. I suggest that they never will, as someone from the BBC would have to appear in court and face questions about their bias antagonising folks to protest.

    They are frightened, but a cornered animal is most dangerous.

    The BBC is your enemy folks.

  195. Liz g says:

    Cherry @ 1.46
    We are on the same page… I think?? but…now we need to go on to a different page maybe???Em… good grief… now I know why the “It’s Complicated ” option was invented.
    Don’t know about you Cherry,but I am definitely too old for this s…/stuff.

  196. Cherry says:

    Scotspine maybe he meant that for hot showers you can actually set the water alight! 😉 I also read and can’t remember where that the ineos guy was saying if the Scottish Government didn’t allow fracking then where would we get our gas from…or words to that effect. I remember thinking that it sounded like big business telling us how it should be, a veiled threat wish I could remember it was one of Nanas links.

  197. Cherry says:

    Och I wouldn’t worry, folk can scroll on by. If something interesting happens we will be here to digest it. Nothing of importance ever happens at 2am. Lol !:)

  198. Liz g says:

    Cherry & Scotsppine
    May be really reaching here but , remember reading something way back…..and could not back it up if my life depended on it…..so treat it as rumours.
    But it may be because a lot of Fracking has to incorporate cemeteries that very ancient law’s would apply,as to what can and cannot be done with “Consecrated Ground”
    Westminster would have struck down most of them but one or two may still be in force,espically in Scotland.
    While it won’t be a permanent protection things like that might cause enough of a delay to protect our land long enough to hopefully bring the government with in slapping distance.

  199. scotspine says:

    @Cherry

    Yes, I picked up on that too.

    Also, Mundell was there today and suggesting Scots Govt is holding development back by preventing fracking etc.

    Cut to SNP spokesperson who says the Scots Govt will wait for scientific analysis of the impact of fracking before making a final decision. When asked by the reporter about the hypocracy of imposing a moritorium in Scotland, yet allowing the import of fracked gas from elsewhere, the SNP spokesperson clearly pointed out that this was a commercial decision by ineos and not endorsed by the Scots Govt. Reporter then read out a final text from a listener calling the SNP hypocritical before moving on.

    They (BBC colony reporters) are simply a shower of sell outs to their nation.

  200. mr thms says:

    The fall in the value of the pound against the dollar since the EU referendum is a boost for the oil companies..

    How much of a boost?

    Today a barrel of Brent crude is worth $46.23
    Last year a barrel of Brent crude was worth $46.19

    Now factor in the fall in the value of the pound against the dollar

    Today the pound is worth $1.30
    Last year the pound was worth $1.52

    Now convert the price of Brent crude from dollars to pounds

    Today a barrel of Brent crude is worth £35.56
    Last year a barrel of Brent crude was worth £30.41

    That’s a saving of £4.15/$5.40 a barrel compared to last year..

    Add that amount to today’s price for a barrel of Brent crude $46.23 + $5.40 = $51.63

    Question is.. who should benefit from the bonus?

  201. Cherry says:

    Liz I think that the whisky industry would be up in arms about fracking. It can contaminate our water table which is imo the best in the world… so who will want their whisky if the water is polluted…SNP needs to extend the moratorium these people are just raping our land.

  202. Cherry says:

    That’s me off to bed…maybe chat another night 🙂

  203. Liz g says:

    Cherry
    So totally ashamed….never even thought about the Whisky.
    Call myself a Scot!!

  204. Onwards says:

    The thing with fracking is there is so much misinformation.
    In America, there were a few wells which weren’t completed properly when the industry was getting started, but the vast majority of the scare stories with gas in the water came from areas with naturally occurring gas seepages.

    Overall it seems like it can be done pretty safely now, and is well below the water table. Scotland generally gets most of its drinking water from lochs and reservoirs anyway.

    It’s electoral suicide though at this time though.
    People just don’t believe its safe. We will see commercial fracking in England long before Scotland, where it will be forced through in this post Brexit environment,

  205. Al Dossary says:

    But the problem with fracking is not just the gas in the water.

    It is the cocktail of highly toxic and carcinogenic chemicals that are used in the process, which can find their way into the water table.

    It is the seepage of methane and other hydrocarbons from the wells into the atmosphere before, during and after production.

    It is the hundreds of wagon loads of chemicals and water that need to be transported to site daily (just ask some of the Ayrshire villages about the impact from open cast coal mining traffic).

    It is the evaporation of toxic gases like benzene from the evaporation ponds. Much easier to have these toxins evaporate into the atmosphere than treat the water properly to remove them.

    It is the danger of injected fluids changing the behaviour of the underlying land that leading to increased earthquakes (Oklahona for example).

    What are the positives – they will quote more jobs, more money for the areas involved. Ultimately however, these workers mostly will be specialists or experienced hands from out of town – all the towns will receive are some extra cash for the B&B’s, the pubs and local shops will receive a boost and a few local lasses will gain a child, maybe even a new husband.

    Much the same as has happenned all over Scotland and the RUK for ever big game changing infrastructure or industrial investment.

  206. Undeadshaun says:

    Al Dossary says

    It is the evaporation of toxic gases like benzene from the evaporation ponds.

    Benzene is one 2 things known to cause chronic myeloid leukemia, the other being ionising radiation.

    For that reason alone, let alone the environmental damage caused, Scotland should go nowhere near allowing fracking on Scottish soil.

  207. Ken500 says:

    The Tories damaged the Oil sector. Osbourne taxed the Oil sector at 80% to 60% when the price had fallen 75%. It wasn’t the price it was the tax which led to cuts in production. Leading to cut backs. It is now 40% from Jan 2016. The politicians and bankers are a bunch of frauds, trying to conceal the facts of Westminster incompetent. Just a bunch of wilful greedy individuals. Multimillionaires who milk the public purse at every opportunity. Enough is never enough for these greedy parasites.

    Osbourne put the tax up 11% (£2Billion) in the 2011 Budget to 80%.Danny Alexander laughed about it. The Oil producers cut back. The price started falling but not the tax. Planned Projects were not started and contracted ones where finished. The Westminster governance of the Oil sector is a disaster. Incompetence and ignorance. Thousands of jobs have been lost. More Oil & Gas has to be imported putting up the balance of trade deficit.

    Westminster is full of unelected charlatans abusing public funds. Electoral fraud was committed in 31 constituencies. There should be drink and drug tests at Westminster before any votes. Many of the members are alcoholics. A bunch of rambling lying parasites. The minority trying to take the majority out of the EU is impossible. 17Million out if 62Million.

    Cameron is the worst PM in history. The Tories are fiddling the immigration figures so they can evade tax. The EU is cutting tax evasion. That is why the Tory multimillionaires want out. Westminster has been causing the migration crisis in Europe by illegally bombing the Middle East for years and illegally taking the resources. The Unionists have been causing the carnage in the Middle East so they can line their pockets. Enough is never enough for these greedy multimillionaires. Blair is transferring his ill gotten funds into two charities to avoid pay out when he gets sued for his war crimes.

    The Tories have banned wind turbines in England. Banned coal production in the UK. It is imported. Not invested in CCS. Cut investment in renewables. They are building Hinkley nuclear Station a complete waste of public money. It will be obsolete before it is built. They flying nuclear waste around the world and dumping it in Scotland. Two tidal barrages will be cheaper, cleaner, quicker and produce more electricity.

    HS2 is a complete waste of public money with absolutely no business case. It will make journeys throughout Britain take longer and be more expensive. It will be obsolete by the time it is built. Cost £Billions which could be better spent. The present rail system should be improved.

  208. Dorothy Devine says:

    With regards to fracking RT had one of their neat little documentaries about a small community in the USA – may still have it on-line. It was a disaster for the people and many were speaking out against it.

    It’s a bit like the nuclear industry all very beneficial until it comes to the waste product or a disaster.

    With regards Ms McGarry , I have no doubt she made enemies just by winning an election and merrily added to that collection by tweeting inaccurate drivel and so the witch hunt began.

    I would dearly like to see NO tweeting from the SNP except to refute articles like those of the Express and Mail and the MSPs who are daft enough to crow over such drivel.

  209. Ken500 says:

    In terms of safety It is claimed Fracking is safer than offshore production. UK Health and Safety Laws were not enforced by Westminster. 4 Helicopters fell from the skies in five years with no Inquiry. A Sherriff (Scottish) led inquiry established wrong doing but witnesses were given immunity to get at the truth. In 2009 people died. The owners sold up 2 years later for £250Million.

    Imagine 4 helicopters falling from the sky in London with no Inquiry. Robert Goodwill, Transport Minister refused an Inquiry. The UK Gov transport Committee supported one. Hammond spent £2Billion modifying forces helicopters. North Sea sector helicopters are old and obsolete but still in service.

    The rigs are being decommissioned because they are obsolete no longer fit for service. Other methods are being devised to extract the Oil & Gas. Moveable barges and structures. Tankers were used in the first production to transfer the Oil and Gas until the pipe lines were constructed to Grangemouth and Edinburgh. Thatcher tried to get the pipe line to Newcastle to illegally and secretly take the Oil. The most economic way was Peterhead. There is still Oil & Gas on the West.
    Decommissioning will generate business.

  210. cearc says:

    Brit ‘top team’ wowing the world.

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/09/27/fox-slip-up-at-wto-shows-he-has-no-brexit-plan

    Actually, dipping in and out of radio, I have discerned a very clear plan. It is something like, Everybody clap your hands and shout, ‘I believe in GREAT Britain’ and it will be true.

  211. Valerie says:

    Onwards @ 3.25

    You simply haven’t read enough about fracking. It’s not electoral suicide I’m worried about its health and environmental suicide.

    It’s a filthy industry that adds considerably to greenhouse gases, and every well cracks eventually, leaching chemicals into the soil that travel.

    Why have so many countries banned it?

    The SG are protecting our environment, entirely consistent with their GM ban, and our beautiful country’s attractions.

    Do some more research, before casually endorsing this poison.

    You are probably right about England, and what does that tell you? The people don’t want it, but the gov’t and shareholders do, so they will force it through.

    Safe? Aye, right.

  212. cearc says:

    In the red, white and blue corner we have Liam Fox (+ significant other?)

    versus in the blue and corner, (cue drumroll).

    ‘Cecilia Malmstroem. The EU’s trade commissioner…has been going toe-to-toe with negotiators in a host of countries including the U.S., Japan and Canada, supported by a team of about 700 …’

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/the-eu-s-brexit-negotiators-veterans-of-european-backroom-wars

    Too close to call says Brit press!

  213. Dr Jim says:

    If the Scottish Government take a legal decision to ban fracking it’s immediately open to legal challenge so the tactic of continually pushing it further into the long grass is the smart one and Ineos knows it that’s why Jim Ratcliffe’s given up

    Scotland could only ban it if we were Independent, then the UK who issued the licences couldn’t make a legal case to overule

  214. mike cassidy says:

    Not that I’m trying to scare people this early.

    http://archive.is/lQUSk

    And if you are feeling really brave, type the word fracking into their search box!

  215. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:
    at 12:09 am

    “G Vs facebook is hilarious for the comments! People are as embarrassed as I feel to have such a moronic bunch of politicians swanning around predicting bonanza deals from the EU”

    Another subtle point (I picked it up from a comment) is that in the photo, Boris is seated behind an upside down Union Flag!

    I understand that a national flag upside down is an official call for help and should only be used as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

    For anyone who hasn’t had a good laugh, and look at the comments …..

    https://www.facebook.com/GuyVerhofstadt/posts/10155001346840016

  216. Struan says:

    Mike thanks for the link.

    Nothing humanity does scares me more than Fracking America is already half way to hell hopefully our government sticks to their guns on this one and bans it outright & forever.

  217. Another Union Dividend says:

    I think we should differentiate between on shore fracking and off shore Underground Coal Gasification.

    Scientists have revealed that the North Sea bed holds up to 20 layers of coal extending from Scotland’s northeast coast far out under the sea — and that much of it could be reached with the technologies already in use to extract oil and gas.

    Dermot Roddy, formerly professor of energy at Newcastle University, has estimated that there are between three trillion and 23 trillion tonnes of coal buried under the North Sea. This is thousands of times greater than all the oil and gas taken out so far, which totals around 6bn tonnes. If we could extract just a few per cent of that coal it would be enough to power the whole of the UK for 100 years at least.

    It strikes me that the same arguments against fracking would be used against North Sea Oil drilling had this been promoted now rather than 40 to 50 years ago.

    There is always a balance to be struck but, provided adequate safeguards are in place, we shouldn’t turn our backs on the huge potential offered by OFFSHORE Underground Coal Gasification.

  218. One_Scot says:

    If anyone had any doubts on the National, this might help.

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/780879668748623872

  219. Sinky says:

    As re-tweeted on Wings timeline… from McKenna’s National article on Ian Murray’s role in Labour’s shambles.

    “His party’s well-paid senior figures campaigned far too closely with the Tories to preserve the Union and were far too gleeful about the result. That was the first betrayal. That many of them then scurried off to corporate jobs within world capitalism’s biggest institutions was the second betrayal. That senior Labour figures continue to participate in the lie that the independence referendum was “divisive” and “nasty”, thus denigrating the campaigning of many of their supporters, was the third betrayal. Playing into the hands of the Tories and the right-wing press and undermining your own leader by joining the plot against him was the fourth betrayal. Doing so when the Tories were on the ropes over Brexit and riven by their own internal divisions was the fifth.”

  220. BJ says:

    cearc@9:14

    Reading your link and I am trying to imagine what it will be like with that amount of firepower against Thersa Mays pick of her finest trying to outflank these EU negotiators!!!

    Scotland needs to have a voice in this.

  221. Ghillie says:

    Another Union Dividend @ 9.33am

    Great to know it’s there but do we need it?

    I say let that fossil resource lie until humanity can think of something better to with the coal gas than burn it.

  222. Sinky says:

    One_Scot @ 9.46

    Without getting involved on one side or the other re Natalie McGarry situation it should be remembered that some of the alleged missing money relates to the SNP Glasgow Regional Association.

  223. Ghillie says:

    Sinky @ 9.48am

    Good points. So true.

    Sinky, that’s because Ian Murray is a soft tory.

    A bit like a snail without a shell.

    (Actualy, that’s a wee bit unfair on my part.I have nothing against slugs)

  224. Papadox says:

    Re Natalie McGarry situation. There is a process in train and should be allowed to evolve to its conclusion without speculation or interference.
    If anybody has anything they want to bump their gums about then is the time to opine.

    To ASSUME makes an ASS of U & ME.

  225. manandboy says:

    Is it any wonder England’s Labour (Unionist) Party misunderstands what is going on in Scotland, watch Joanna Baxter, NEC member, in the opening 2 minutes of this video. (kez’s speech is optional)
    “In Full: Scottish Labour Leader Kezia Dugdale’s speech to the 2016 UK Labour COnference” on YouTube. (the link doesn’t appear to work on the blog)

  226. Clootie says:

    One_Scot@9:46

    a) A newspaper reporting a fact is hardly an indication of bias!
    b) I was always told to highlight your own weaknesses first rather than be accused of hiding them. I’m certain every other media outlet will run with this so what would be gained from trying to “hide” the story?

    I for one look for balance in reporting from our media and not bias as with the unionist rags. What I would agree with you on is the prominence the story was given was excessive so I can understand your view if you already suspect the National. However I still think it provides a good forum for several Independence supporting writers.

  227. Robert Peffers says:

    @Onwards says: 28 September, 2016 at 3:25 am:

    ” … the vast majority of the scare stories with gas in the water came from areas with naturally occurring gas seepages.”

    Thing is, Onward, the problem has nothing to do with, “Gas in the water”. It has to do with the fracturing of the rock and the toxic multi-chemical sludge that is injected into the fractured rock to push the gas out.

    Furthermore, even although the actual fracturing of the strata is indeed well below the water table level the drilled passage down to that level passes through all levels up to ground level and thus those highly poisonous, carcinogen chemicals can leak into all levels above the gas bearing strata.

    To aggravate matters the Central Belt of Scotland’s geology is an area that has everything all over the place. This is due to the fact that the Scottish area was formed by the movements of the tectonic plates that pushed up our Highland and Southern Uplands areas.

    This was a prime reason why the Scottish Coal Mining industry died out. Even although there is still more coal down there than has ever been extracted to date. The coal seems are all over the place and they lie at all angles in all directions.

    The town of Glenrothes was originally built to house miners for what was to be a coal mining Super-pit. They actually built that Super-pit. However, it never produced any coal on a commercial basis. The prime reasons being that Super-pits use massive coal cutting machines that straddle massively long, straight, level coal seams.

    Such seams do not exist in Scotland due to our unique geology. The other reason being that, as our coal seams are fractured and broken, then so are all the other seams and that means there are many paths for water to get between the shattered, fractured and higgledy-higgledy seams.

    The official explanation as to why the Glenrothes Super-pit was abandoned was uncontrollable flooding of the pit.

    There is thus also no way that the channels drilled to facilitate so called, “Fracking”, or fracturing of the strata can be safe as those many paths for the chemicals injected are exactly the same as those that flooded the Glenrothes super-pit and, just by the way, were the same reason that ended the, under the River Forth pit, that fed coal to the Longannet power station in Fife.

    There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that, “Fracking”, for gas in Central Scotland would not only be highly dangerous, in so many ways, but would indeed contaminate the water-table throughout the entire region with cancer inducing chemical sludge.

  228. DaveL says:

    Maybe it’s time for the National to run a weekly ‘corrections’ column, (could easily be a whole page) whereby it highlights the lies pushed by the union rags. If a whole page were given over to it it could be detached and pasted up on/in indy friendly walls cafes and businesses and like that.

    It would’nt be too difficult, all the research is done and documented right here. A wee citation for the Rev and Wings would’nt go amiss either.

    Just a thought, cheers

  229. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    cearc says at 9:14 am

    After reading your link it is apparent that UK vs EU Brexit negotiations will be the equivalent of a game between the bottom team in the Highland League versus the European Champions.

    As BJ says at 9:49 am

    “Scotland needs to have a voice in this.”

    Definately BJ,

    If May’s crack team (who’d be unlikely to cut a preferential deal with Harpo, Groucho and Chico) block, ignore or belittle Scotland’s position (let alone when try to sell us down the river as a negotiating chip):

    Then the Scots Gov. should publicly withdraw from joint negotiations (aye, I know their not really joint).

    Explain why they are withdrawing, and then start separate Scottish negotiations with the EU (I’m assuming Article 50 will have been triggered).

  230. Andrew McLean says:

    I started listening to radio 4 extra, just for the comedy you understand, anyway they do a lot of repeats from round the horn and Hancock’s half hour, these were from about mid to late 50’s and even the 60’s. A bit too early for me, but not the target audience of those we wish to move to yes. I have been struck by the descriptions, of Britain, which is always code for England, and the descriptions of France and Spain as foreign “alien” countries, this world is absolutely alien to anyone under 40, if you are under 30, the prospect of returning to that world view must be terrifying.

    I can see why Labour thought that they had to cover up the wealth of Scotland and siphon it off for the English nation, they belong to that age of blind obedience to those they thought their betters. And sadly still do. I really don’t mean to be offensive but the basis of their belief can only be described as uncle Tom’ism.

    As for me my view of what this Union did to my country is not coloured by the old imperial mindset of that bygone age, my formative years were the blossoming of Scotland, the opportunities squandered by extreme right wing class wars of Thatcher, the brotherhood of Europe, that transcend trade agreements and commerce, instead Europe becoming a open area, another part of what constitutes in my mind my world view, regardless if you are French Spanish Italian or German, you belong to a fraternity, a brotherhood with me.

    God help us, a retraction into Britain, Little England alone fills me with dread, and I will oppose it with every ounce of my being. Too many years have been spent as a European citizen, too many years listening to my nation belittled by my own countrymen, as they prostrate themselves before a bastard unionist state, their flag, the butchers apron a sign of oppression and submission.

    And the thing is this, even if we lose Indy ref 2, actually I don’t think we will, you cannot force the population under 40 to take life a little Englanders, already the lines are being drawn. People in labour actually talk about people returning to labour, ignoring the fact that the debate now transcends political debate, this is about nationality, that’s why we get “the best of Britain” rammed down our throats.

    To further the cause of independence, the battlefield is the sense of nation itself, not all about political machinations’ it is the national conversation, the grassroots movement, even not about the SNP, some of the most passionate demands for a independent Scotland have come from the Greens. To belittle it as the Ulsterisation of Scotland is to spread fear to try and force the week back into their box with imaginary bogeymen.

    No sensible debate now can have the existence of the union as a given, that’s why the constant barrage of no to Indy 2 from the unionists, but just saying no won’t work, Pandora has opened the box, and what we witness today is just the start, where we go from here is how to diametrically opposite forces come to a determination. Time and the tide of history is on our side, the union weakens every day, the red unionist faction is in disarray, the blue faction has its fingers in its ears and is whistling “land of hope and glory” whilst sneering at anyone not “English” in outlook.

    It was once common currency to say, if Scotland gets a SNP majority, then we sue for separation, well we had instead a referendum, we lost due to lies, the same type of lies that ironically will cause the end of the union, England lost Scotland when they voted for Brexit, because in the end they want a world that Scotland cant exist in, that is alien to this Nation and its people, the 50’s are over, portraying Scots as feckless drunks, rolling their “R’s” is over, lying about the wealth they stole is over, Uncle Tomism is over, sectarianism as a divide and rule is over, trust in the lying state broadcaster is over, trust in the forces of the Union is over.

    And ultimately this union is over, not because of of anything more difficult that the majority, coming to the realisation that the foundations of the United Kingdom’s are built on so much shifting sand and bad faith, and as true as “The human heart feels things the eyes cannot see, and knows what the mind cannot understand” the soul of our Nation has awakened to the cause of Independence, of Nationhood, of Internationalism, of Self Pride, of self belief.

    No one person, no state, no political party, will ever extinguish that flame of independence, that grows in the hearts of our nation.

  231. Greannach says:

    I see racy academic Neil Oliver is to be doing a series on the Scottish roots of the Ku Klux Klan. I’m looking forward to Dan Snow’s series on the Scottish roots of the Stalin family, Eddie Izzard’s on Nicola Sturgeon’s links to Pol Pot, and Trinny and Susannah’s ground-breaking documentary on how Scottish culture inspired the Cultural Revolution in China.

  232. galamcennalath says:

    On the subject of fracking, it is worth googling … fracking in France

    France, apparently, has huge potential for fracking. It has been banned.

    More and more I take a view that if something is good enough for the French then it is good enough for me. And I mean this for situations other that just fracking. Workers rights are far better than in the UK, and French productivity is high. I would argue one follows the other.

  233. Onwards says:

    Papadox says:
    28 September, 2016 at 10:09 am

    Re Natalie McGarry situation. There is a process in train and should be allowed to evolve to its conclusion without speculation or interference.
    If anybody has anything they want to bump their gums about then is the time to opine.

    To ASSUME makes an ASS of U & ME

    ———–

    I don’t know all the facts, but I do understand the amount in question is around £10k, a fraction of an MPs salary, and in my opinion it seems ridiculous that it got to this point.. Instead of sorting it out themselves for the good of the party and the independence movement in general.

  234. One_Scot says:

    Yeah, you’re right, I don’t what I was thinking about, the Yoon media and papers with 99.99% UK coverage are constantly running negative stories and Front pages about their Yoon MP/MSPs, we need to make sure we try and balance it out a bit, I mean we wouldn’t want an unfair advantage would we.

    Let’s face it, the Yoon media are going to need all the help they can get at IndyRef2 if they are to stand any chance of defeating us.

  235. Ken500 says:

    Labour ignorant politicians giving praise to Blair. The lying warmonger who destroyed the world economy and destroyed the Labour Party. Illegally killing and maining millions innocent people causing death and deprivation. Creating the migration crisis in Europe.

    Blair a lying criminal who is now transferring funds into a charity to avoid pay out to those who will sue for illegal death and torture. Blair and Brown should be in jail, along with their lying, apologetic sycophants. They caused £Trillions of debt, poverty and destruction.

  236. winifred mccartney says:

    re DaveL @10.20 great idea
    I am so fed up with the biased reporting in BBC – take this morning – Steel plant reopening – first spoke to labour/union rep gave his spiel, then to the Labour deputy leader of N Lanarkshire council – this was the 7 o’clock news and gave 4/5 minute report and in the very last paragraph the interviewer said about ‘the hard work the SG had done’ I counted 11 words at the very end of the report praising SG part in saving the steel works whereas 2 labour reps got whole sections of the report. I no longer even get an acknowledgement or case no for complaints to the bbc so we really do have to find another way of highlighting the disgrace they are.

  237. Ken500 says:

    WFI created the situation. Now they will have to live with the verdict. A shambles. Broken rules of association. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Pathetic.

  238. Smallaxe says:

    Nana says@Smallaxe Good morning.

    Good morning Nana,just got home,will explain later.

    Thanks for links as usual.

    Peace Always

  239. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    manandboy says at 10:11 am

    Corbyn’s reaction in the first 2 minutes is priceless (I didn’t bother watching Kezia chunter SNPBaaad).

    He looks completely disinterested and doesn’t even bother to clap when the rest of them do.

    Is this his because it is for Owen Smith groupie Dugdale or is this his attitude to Scotland in general.

  240. Ghillie says:

    Andrew McLean@ 10.27am

    A heart felt comment. Resonated with me. Thank you = )

  241. Meg merrilees says:

    Andrew McLean @10.27 Well said, Sir!
    you are expressing exactly the same sentiment as William Wallace 700 years ago.

    ‘Dico Tibi Verum, Libertas Optima Rerum: Nunquam Servili Sub Nexu Vivito, Fili’

    translates as :
    My son, I tell thee soothfastlie, No gift is like to libertie; Then never live in slaverie.

    PS: thought it was rather apt that the forces of Mother Nature are trying their best to stop the US fracked gas from being brought ashore. Another thing Scotland disnae want foisted on her!

  242. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T

    Theresa May is the de facto First Minister of England. But she is also the Prime Minister of the UK. Surely there is a conflict of interest there? Surely the Prime Minister of the UK’s role should be to take a holistic view of what is for the benefit of the entire UK without bias towards and undue and over-bearing influence from one part of that UK?

    Isn’t it time that the UK PM and England FM are separated into two distinct roles?

  243. Arbroath1320 says:

    Apologies for yet another O/T topic here but methinks the next President of the U.S.A. 😀 will not be too happy at this news. 😛

    http://archive.is/Ox0hR

  244. Ghillie says:

    Natalie McGarry

    Two things.

    We are all innocent until proven guilty.

    I feel for the lass. Whether she has done right or wrong, the courts are not a good experience for anyone.

    Good luck pet and chin up = )

  245. yesindyref2 says:

    @One_Scot
    For one thing all the media is covering the story, so it would really look daft if The National didn’t.

    But for another perhaps people might be tempted to get The National to see if it has any inside stories on it, and then get to read the rest of the paper.

  246. That was a brave and correct front page for the National.

  247. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Andrew McClean@10.27am

    A great post, thank you. Some do live very much in the past, and not just politically either. Never quite sure to what good, but there are those who live for the now, and for their children and grandchildrens futures, or even other peoples if they have non themselves.

    Re; Greanach@10.27

    So the great Scotland bad on the bbc, well well. N.Oliver, mr positive about his own country, not.

    I noticed stuff on twitter begging Scotland not to accept fracked gas from the US. It’s like Scotland’s MOD, which doesn’t exist but which was the reason for a petition against bombing the hell out of endangered whales in Scotland’s waters some months back.

    It looks like the new tactic is to bring out anything at all that portrays Scotland as a destructive country with a government who have no scruples. In fact, the WM lot trying to portray Scotland as a baddy in general to the world. I guess they are scared that some people might just look a bit deeper into how Scotland has been treated for so long and why independence is necessary.

    Scotland is lumped in with the WM UKok governments decision making as far as the rest of rhe world is concerned, and they intend to keep it that way, as well as making sure that Scotland is even portrayed as making decisions, re Syria etc, which we have no control over whatsoever.

  248. Andrew McLean says:

    Meg merrilees 11:29 am
    you are expressing exactly the same sentiment as William Wallace 700 years ago.
    ‘Dico Tibi Verum, Libertas Optima Rerum: Nunquam Servili Sub Nexu Vivito, Fili’

    The radio 4 thing was part of my trying to reach a thread in my father’s memory as he has dementia, I was looking at some old photos of the family last night to take to him, and I came across a photo of me years ago when I worked in London next to this, http://londoniscool.com/william-wallace-braveheart-memorial-plaque.
    So maybe some subconscious channelling 🙂

    I think we all are all a continuing part of a thread that spans the centuries, from wherever in this planet you hail, you are part of this battle for independence, once again at the forefront of our Nation, and with our efforts is truly well joined , and although you can’t transpose the times of Wallace to today’s sensibilities, one thing shines bright from that day to this, My Nation, Our Nation, Scotland, proud and steadfast, deserves and demands our independence, and that this unnatural state of union is an anathema as much to history as to the present.

  249. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just a wee thought about fracking as the JS Ineos Insight works its way up the Forth to Grangemouth.

    https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-3/centery:56/zoom:11

    Does the Scottish government actually have any powers to stop this ship, or any future ships from delivering fracked gas from overseas to Grangemouth?

    I have a sneaky suspicion that, like just about everything else, control over shipping and cargoes they carry is a “reserved” matter for Westminster.

  250. heedtracker says:

    In another universe, Governor of the Bank of England visits his Scotland region and explains possible Brexit economics for us. In this one, he merely sows the usual UKOK fear and uncertainty, and rancid The Graun’s tory britnat’s love him for it. Oh the terrible burden of not Scots oil and gas.

    http://archive.is/1Klqk

  251. manandboy says:

    Hat off to Andrew McLean at 10.27am. Excellent!

  252. starlaw says:

    Arbroath 1320
    Exactly my thoughts, would this ship be allowed in the Thames? but we have it bobbing about in the Forth unable to dock. So much for Ineos’s safety planning.

  253. Capella says:

    @ Heedtracker – from your Guardian link:

    “The Scottish government’s North Sea revenues collapsed in 2015-16 to £60m from £1.8bn a year earlier. It was a far cry from the rewards reaped by Scotland in 2008-09, when North Sea revenues were £11.6bn. Income from the oil industry is a key factor in debates over Scotland’s ability to fund its public finances as an independent nation.”

    What are the Scottish Government’s North sea revenues which collapsed?

    Shouldn’t the Governer of the Bank of England know what happens to the oil revenues? Worrying.

  254. Arbroath1320 says:

    I think we all know the answer to allowing it up the Thames starlaw 😉 … unfortunately it is currently about 8 miles away from Grangemouth docks. (currently abeam Boness)

  255. ScottishPsyche says:

    O/T

    Barry Gardiner giving Andrew Neil an arse kicking about fracking on daily politics.

  256. cearc says:

    ‘To ASSUME makes an ASS of U & ME’

    It can also get you charged with contempt of court!

    You cannot know whether anything you write is prejudicial to the case because you don’t know the details of the case as presented to the court.

  257. Bob Mack says:

    Did anybody else hear Andrew Neil interviewing the Labour Shadow minister just now ? I hope the Rev has taped it. He informed Andrew Neil that figures indicate although we are importing £15 billion of gas every year, we are exporting far in excess of that according to his figures.
    Andrew Neil disagreed with him and said that we needed to import gas as our fields were drying up according to government sources.. The guy stood his ground and told Neil to check his figures.
    Could this be one of the methods they are hiding revenues ?. It was a significant claim.

  258. call me dave says:

    Nicola Sturgeon: Brexit will “probably” end in constitutional wrangle before Supreme Court judges

    https://archive.is/iHTcG

    @Andrew McLean
    Enjoyed your post….but still like a bit of Tony too! 🙂

    Yes indeedy! Once upon a time they told us that all we had to do was get more independence SNP MP’s elected into Westminster than the rest of the political parties in Scotland and ‘Hey Presto’

    Funny old political world init!

  259. heedtracker says:

    What are the Scottish Government’s North sea revenues which collapsed?

    Shouldn’t the Governer of the Bank of England know what happens to the oil revenues? Worrying.

    Indeed Capella. Its front line UKOK attack propaganda from Graun in particular but they’re all at it, Project Fear 2 in all its glory.

    As well as monstering Sturgeon with MaGarry, BBC Radio vote SLab Scotland news this morning was really pushing their mental as anything UKOK stuff for Corbyn’s new New Labour plan to protect UK heavy industries such as steel making. As Pacific Quay gimps neatly handed JC and SLab the credit Dalziel Steel not shutting down. Dirty game this rule britannia stuff. They’re working this hard now to get the SNP out of Holyrood, but its probably all for next years council elections.

    SLab and yoons losing control of Scottish councils is like the BBC Alamo. Lose them and Pacific Quay is the last yoon toe hold in Scotland.

  260. Bob Mack says:

    @Andrew McLean,

    Quote from The Quiet Man by Barry Fitzgerald. “A beautiful Sentiment”
    Our time will come. Of that there is now no doubt.

  261. dandy dons 1903 says:

    What Scottish Government oil revenues??!! The Scottish Government has no control over the revenues, its controlled by the UK Government and the money goes directly to them! As for the rewards reaped its the UK Government who benefits not Scotland! The Guardian are a shower of liars and mendacious deceivers we know that much!

  262. Robert Graham says:

    The current unionist media frothing over Natalie McGarry none of us here have the full story as pointed out previously with the “assumption” quote yeah most of us know and get that one,but as everyone and their grannie has been having an opinion why not folk here , This whole thing strikes me as fuddle and muddle rather than a cold calculated crime it seems to have morphed into , the whole saga has to be put into context , does anyone here remember everything that went on during the months leading up to the vote when most people were all over the place trying to do ten things at once , groups were starting up daily were they all meticulous in their planning ? for most it was get the important stuff done and we will sort out the details later , were receipts collected and logged was there a bank account was there minutes taken at meetings , this wasn’t a bloody financial institution where the books had to be audited it was a movement ,this whole thing smacks of the racist slur last year that was proved to be false from a supposed insider at a SNP lanarkshire branch , why couldnt women for indie have sorted this out internally rather that throw the press a bone ? , scratch below the surface of the NO campaign and a whole can of worms would be unearthed , but who would do that our press aye right .

  263. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T

    Coming soon… BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND…

    http://imgur.com/a/vZsbF

  264. Foonurt says:

    Dalzell steelwork officially re-opening today (28th September). Radio Scoattlin interviewer tae employee of Liberty Steel, on this morning’s news – “How many folk are starting work, compared to those made redundant. And is there a market for the steel?”

    Fuck me, talk abit pittin Scoattlin doon.

    Thurz aye yoan Mega Bus tae Lunin, fur thoan FuK wans.

  265. Capella says:

    @ Robert Graham – Why not here? Because of contempt of court rules. Better to say nothing until the court process is over.

  266. Struan says:

    @ Proud Cybernat Those stickers look fantastic a worthy cause can’t wait to see them all over the place 🙂

  267. Arbroath1320 says:

    Anyone who is still awake waiting for someone … anyone … to produce some information … any information … related to Article 50 might find this interesting … or maybe not. 😉

    https://www.bindmans.com/news/peoples-challenge-group-win-right-to-publish-secret-government-defence-in-b

  268. heedtracker says:

    The Guardian are a shower of liars and mendacious deceivers we know that much

    They are but their blend of savage monstering of Scotland and Scottish democracy is really only once or twice a week, mostly. Otherwise, rancid old Graun’s a Scotland wasteland, with nice second home ideas in the Highlands for their loaded ABC1 readers.

    And to be fair, Libby Carrell and co are all English. Its listening to actual Scots raging away at how shite Scotland with SNP Scots.gov is, hour by hour, day in day out, BBC Scotland style, that’s the vomit inducing UKOK hackdom that’s really awful to watch.

    The only medicine is the fact that’s extremely unlikely they will be able to make Scotland vote red and blue tory again, in our lifetime at least. They’re holding the UKOK line in Scotland but only just.

  269. Robert Peffers says:

    @Andrew McLean says: 28 September, 2016 at 10:27 am:
    ” … A bit too early for me, but not the target audience of those we wish to move to yes.”

    That is rather too much of an ageist sweeping generalisation, Andrew.

    ” … this world is absolutely alien to anyone under 40, if you are under 30, the prospect of returning to that world view must be terrifying.”

    I’m eighty next birthday, Andrew. Stop spouting utter pish

    ” … I really don’t mean to be offensive but the basis of their belief can only be described as uncle Tom’ism.”

    More sweeping generalisation and more utter pish. I have been an independence activist since around 1946 and the reason there is an independence movement today is because I’m not alone and there wouldn’t be an SNP government in Scotland today if we had indeed all been Uncle Toms.

    ” … As for me my view of what this Union did to my country is not coloured by the old imperial mindset of that bygone age,”

    Naw! Neither is mine, Andrew, and we activist were very well aware of the way the, “Westminster Establishment”, were ripping off Scotland. Thing is that your average Scottish person, until fairly recently, had no interest whatsoever in political matters. Their reaction when a political matter came on any media was to turn the page, change the channel or station and go to the kitchen to make tea.

    ” … my formative years were the blossoming of Scotland,”

    No they were not, Andrew, you are a Johnny come lately to the independence movement.

    ” … the opportunities squandered by extreme right wing class wars of Thatcher, the brotherhood of Europe, that transcend trade agreements and commerce, instead Europe becoming a open area, another part of what constitutes in my mind my world view, regardless if you are French Spanish Italian or German, you belong to a fraternity, a brotherhood with me.”

    And who the hell did you imagine were instrumental in setting up that international brotherhood, Andrew? It was people who had experienced the World Wars who realised those doing the fighting, being crippled for life and the dying were not confined to any one country or side in the conflicts. Well I remember, “The Forgotten Armies”, like the Chindits:-
    NOTE:

    The Chindits were the biggest allied Special Force in WWII. Formed and lead by Major General Orde Wingate DSO, they operated deep behind enemy lines in North Burma against the Japanese forces. They lived in and fought the enemy in the jungles of Japanese occupied Burma and relied totally upon airdrops for supplies.

    There were two Chindits expeditions made into Burma, the first was in February 1943 named, “Operation Longcloth”, that consisted of a force of 3,000 men. They marched over 1,000 miles during that campaign. The second, “Operation Thursday”, in March of 1944 was a much larger scale expedition being the second largest airborne invasion of WWII. It consisted of a force of 20,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers with air support provided by the 1st Air Commando USAAF. Wingate was tragically killed a few weeks after the launch of, “Operation Thursday”.

    Get over yourself, Kiddo, this independence thingy is far older than you are and it is highly disrespectful of you to lump all the older members of the independence movement along with what are, in actual fact, what remains of the old order of Westminster Establishment numpties who comprised the Labour, Tory and Lib/Dems of yore – all others, of a more elderly order, who had not already deserted the unionists are mainly those who were actually doing the damage to Scotland.

    They are the Scottish based Labour, Tory and LibDem party members and their families and hingers oan. Did you imagine that they had all ran away to England?

  270. manandboy says:

    Earlier this morning I watched a recording of a discussion on Sky about Jeremy Corbyn. The only member of the discussion group I recognised is Greg Dyke, former Head of the FA and the BBC, and a firm anti-Corbyn man, on the grounds that Corbyn is not a leader and therefore cannot win a General Election. Greg, being the forceful kind of guy he is, made this point a number of times. But always failing to ‘get’ what it is about Jeremy Corbyn which has attracted such a huge following. So this is for you, Greg, – and those of like mind.

    A quick glance at a list of recent PM’s, Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher, is enough to spot two things they had in common. One is they are all neo-liberal, ie. servants of the banksters and big business, while making a tidy fortune for themselves during and after their time in office. The second is that people voted for them and supported their leadership because of what they said, even though what they did for the people did not match their words. This gap between word and action has increased markedly since the era of Cameron’s Tory Government. And so we find ourselves mired in corruption, sleaze and unbridled greed, while politicians, the banks and big business, drown us in lies in an attempt to cover up their crimes. These are the people whom Greg and friends want us to follow.

    Then, along comes Jeremy Corbyn. People who follow Jeremy Corbyn do so, not because of what he says, but because of what he does. And because what he says matches his words. Corbyn is a true socialist. His instinct is to help others, while the neo-liberals’ instinct is to help the wealthy and themselves to become wealthy.
    Corbyn doesn’t have to be a great speaker or to have wonderful interpersonal skills. His actions speak louder than any words. Corbyn has integrity and human decency and that’s what people are following and voting for in such large numbers.

    Since Margaret Thatcher, the UK electorate have been fed a diet of lies. Now, people are rediscovering an appetite for the truth, and support for those who tell the truth – and who live it too.

    We too, in Scotland recognise that in the SNP we find the truth about what we can be. We’re sick of the Unionist lies about what we can’t be. Nicola tells us we can be independent, while Theresa May tells us she won’t allow it.
    Kezia too, like May, tells us, ‘I won’t allow Scotland to decide its own future. So sit down, join the Labour Par’y, and do whit yir telt’. Much the same as Ruth Davidson and Willie Rennie.

    We are coming to the end of an era of corruption, the era of neo-liberalism, which is where Unionists love to be; the true home of Tories and Labour alike. The future may lie in a form of socialism for the UK, as more and more of the electorate come to their senses.
    In Scotland, the future is in democratic socialism Scottish style, free at last from the choking grip of Westminster. It looks likely that grip will be loosened a little by the Corbyn effect.
    Integrity and decency may have gone out of fashion in the last 30 years, but look where it has got us. It’s time for a change alright.

  271. Capella says:

    @ Arbroath 1320 – good find! So, according to the Westminster government:

    “Brexit has nothing constitutionally to do with the Scottish and Northern Ireland devolved governments, that Parliament ‘clearly understood’ it was surrendering any role it might have in Brexit by passing the EU Referendum Act, that it has no control over making and withdrawal from treaties and that individuals can have fundamental rights conferred by Acts of Parliament stripped away if and when the executive withdraws from the treaties on which they are based.”

    I think Nicola will have something to say about that!

    https://www.bindmans.com/news/peoples-challenge-group-win-right-to-publish-secret-government-defence-in-b

  272. Tinto Chiel says:

    Robert Peffers: you sure know your stuff about the Central Coalfields. Lots of miners on my mother’s side. Fractured isn’t the word and fracking would cause massive pollution. We’ve alrady got enough of that with Trident and Dounreay.

    Andrew McLean: eloquent stuff.

    Greannach: thanks for the Neil Oliver/KKK warning. He’ll be rubbing his hands at that prospect, no doubt bringing in the confederate flag, slavery and grits, full-spectrum monstering.

    And Pol Pot wuz Alic Sammin’s cousin tae…

    Aye, soany wuz. Read it in The Record.

    Is it just me or does Neilly remind you of an Afghan hound?

    Boy, this cough medication’s good.

  273. Tam Jardine says:

    Capella

    Interesting piece in the guardian. It turns out we had oil and gas revenues devolved all along and never even knew it. In other news, Derek Mackay has been pumping billions of QE money into the system to boost the economy.

    I’m watching the Man in the High Castle what-if-Germany-had-won-the-war at the moment and the parallels are stark between the Yoon position. The Scottish Government has full fiscal autonomy at the moment if not full independence and Derek Mackay is in control of all the fiscal levers.

    Did they actually vote against the union back in 1706 and we are struggling with our own basket case economy of our own creation?

    Cretinous radges that they are- am still waiting on my ipso complaint on macfadyen but this gross innaccuracy deserves another. BBC sluggish on my last complaint too. If England could only monetise inaccurate reporting and journalistic distortion it would be rolling in it. Oh- wait: that’s what the last no campaign did…

  274. K1 says:

    I fucking love Robert Peffers! The mair ye say it Robert the mair it punctures the bubbles in our heid’s:

    ‘…in actual fact, what remains of the old order of Westminster Establishment numpties who comprised the Labour, Tory and Lib/Dems of yore – all others, of a more elderly order, who had not already deserted the unionists are mainly those who were actually doing the damage to Scotland.

    They are the Scottish based Labour, Tory and LibDem party members and their families and hingers oan. Did you imagine that they had all ran away to England?’

    If we could ‘realise’ that and stop fanny arsing about wi the ‘age’ issue demographic pish…then we would finally understand: a mere handful o’ diddies stand between us and self determination.

    The rest is just propaganda.

    (Oh tae be telt yer talking utter pish by Mr Peffers…I wish i’d said something worthy of that admonishment Andrew 😉 )

  275. Arbroath1320 says:

    I really hope she does Capella.

    As we draw ever closer to the initiating of Article 50, early next year according to Guy Verhofstadt, Donald Tusk and Martin McGuinness, then things will really start to hot up not withstanding this wee court case. 😛

    What I don’t understand is the fact that Maggie Mark II is quite prepared to tell the likes of Guy Verhofstadt, Donald Tusk and Martin McGuinness when she intends to initiate Article 50 but she will NOT tell OUR M.P.’s or the people of the U.K.

  276. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the Natalie McGarry case?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37495214

  277. Phronesis says:

    The evidence for the benefits vs the risks of fracking should be laid bare for all to consider-not only from the scientific community but from health, community and environmental activists. The Environmental Protection Agency’s long awaited report has some interesting things to say about fracking in America;

    ‘Although proximity of hydraulic fracturing activities to a drinking water resource is not in of itself sufficient for an impact to occur, it does increase the potential for impacts. Residents and drinking water resources in areas experiencing hydraulic fracturing activities are most likely to be affected by any potential impacts, should they occur.

    However, hydraulic fracturing can also affect drinking water resources outside the immediate vicinity of a hydraulically fractured well; a truck carrying wastewater could spill or a release of inadequately treated wastewater could have downstream effects…

    From our assessment, we conclude there are above and below ground mechanisms by which hydraulic fracturing activities have the potential to impact drinking water resources. These mechanisms include water withdrawals in times of, or in areas with, low water availability; spills of hydraulic fracturing fluids and produced water; fracturing directly into underground drinking water resources; below ground migration of liquids and gases; and inadequate treatment and discharge of wastewater.

    We did not find evidence that these mechanisms have led to widespread, systemic impacts on drinking water resources in the United States. Of the potential mechanisms identified in this report, we found specific instances where one or more mechanisms led to impacts on drinking water resources, including contamination of drinking water wells. The number of identified cases, however, was small compared to the number of hydraulically fractured wells.

    This finding could reflect a rarity of effects on drinking water resources, but may also be due to other limiting factors. These factors include: insufficient pre- and post-fracturing data on the quality of drinking water resources; the paucity of long-term systematic studies; the presence of other sources of contamination precluding a definitive link between hydraulic fracturing activities and an impact; and the inaccessibility of some information on hydraulic fracturing activities and potential impacts…

    Discharge of treated hydraulic fracturing wastewater has increased contaminant concentrations in receiving surface waters.

    Below ground movement of fluids, including gas, most likely via the production well, have contaminated drinking water resources. In some cases, hydraulic fracturing fluids have also been directly injected into drinking water resources, as defined in this assessment, to produce oil or gas that co-exists in those formations’.

    https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-07/documents/hf_es_erd_jun2015.pdf

    The UK government assessment is rather selective with the truth,finding no documented evidence of contaminated water;

    ‘Shale gas formations are typically found much deeper underground than conventional oil and gas sources. In the UK, hydrocarbon extraction will therefore be taking place at a depth a long way from groundwater so as to ensure that the possibility of any fractures extending into aquifers is negligible…

    Hydraulic fracturing has been used in over two million wells worldwide since the 1940s and comprehensive studies have found no historical cases in which hydraulic fracturing fluid has contaminated drinking water, a fact underlined by the UK Energy and Climate Change Select Committee’

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/about-shale-gas-and-hydraulic-fracturing-fracking/developing-shale-oil-and-gas-in-the-uk

    Research and publication bias from untrustworthy recommendations occurs when companies are allowed to publish reports about their safety procedures because there is another agenda other than community and ecological safety (aka corporate profits). Producing limited information and subverting any uncertainties and data limitations that may influence public knowledge and decision making is key when presenting fracking as universally safe.

    ‘The EPA’s own science advisers are rightfully responding to the EPA’s report with the fact that drilling and unconventional extraction are risks to the water cycle and that water contamination is a common and inherent problem…

    The charge leveled by the advising scientists is not that the EPA erred in the 20 peer-reviewed studies it conducted and 3,500 more studies and reports it reviewed. Rather, the advisory board, consisting of government and university scientists, finds fault with how the agency presented the information most likely to influence public opinion — particularly that the claim of no systematic impact on drinking water is insufficiently nuanced…

    One case occurred in Pavillion, Wyoming, where in 2010 the EPA issued a warning to residents not to drink or cook with water that was found to contain a chemical used in fracking, 2-butoxyethanol or 2-BE. In 2011 the EPA issued a draft report stating that fracking was responsible for the water pollution, but following harsh criticism of its methods the agency retreated from its finding and turned the study over to state regulators.

    The state’s Department of Environmental Quality eventually found little evidence that the presence of 2-BE, which is also found in household cleaners, was due to fracking. The study was funded by EnCana, the drilling company whose wells the EPA had initially blamed for the contamination’

    https://news.vice.com/article/the-environmental-protection-agency-says-fracking-is-safe-but-its-scientists-disagree

    The scientists advising the EPA are not in agreement with the reports findings

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/08/11/epas-science-advisers-challenge-agency-report-on-the-safety-of-fracking/?utm_term=.e2dd346b1a7c

    The health impacts of neurotoxins and carcinogens that fracking releases into the air and water causing increased hospital admissions of those living in proximity to fracking zones, the environmental impact of increased climate change because of methane released into the environment, the stress of disengaged and disempowered communities should all come into the mix of the fracking debate .

    Carpenter, D. O. Hydraulic fracturing for natural gas: impact on health and environment. Rev.Environ.Health 31(1), 47-51. 1-3-2016.

    Johnston, J. E., Werder, E., and Sebastian, D. Wastewater Disposal Wells, Fracking, and Environmental Injustice in Southern Texas. Am.J.Public Health 106(3), 550-556. 2016

    Jemielita, T., et al Unconventional Gas and Oil Drilling Is Associated with Increased Hospital Utilization Rates. PLoS.One. 10(7), e0131093. 2015

    Paulik, L. B. et al Impact of natural gas extraction on PAH levels in ambient air. Environ.Sci.Technol. 49(8), 5203-5210. 21-4-2015.

    The UK government needs to update its information unless it wants to be accused of working for the fracking corporations and not its electorate.

    Scotland should be self-sufficient in renewable energy- it’s a human rights agenda and as an autonomous country we can.

  278. Robert Peffers says:

    @K1 says: 28 September, 2016 at 1:34 pm:

    ” … (Oh tae be telt yer talking utter pish by Mr Peffers…I wish i’d said something worthy of that admonishment Andrew )”

    I nearly wet myself laughing at your retort, K1. There are two main things my long association with the independence movement has taught me – the first is great patience and the second is to never, ever, take yourself too seriously, or in other words, to maintain a good sense of humour.

    Until the Rev Stu came upon the scene these were the only two things that kept we older campaigners, (more or less), sane.

  279. Capella says:

    Good collection of clips form “Dear President Obama”, an anti-fracking film which can only been seen on RT live when it is scheduled. Grim.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCD5XWmAzus&list=PLgPZGh5JFkRzXep6YeQ62e3A7CnVGBCid

  280. Andrew McLean says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    28 September, 2016 at 1:07 pm
    @Andrew McLean says: 28 September, 2016 at 10:27 am:

    I am truly sorry if I have offend you, and I do seem to have done so, that was never my intention, especially given your scholarly posts on the sovereignty of Scotland. however the “facts are chiels that winna ding”, from the ages of 55 to 64, 57% voted no, this rises to 73% for the over 65 group. Source http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/#more-6383
    So as uncomfortable as you may feel, it is only right and proper that is taken into consideration when debating where fertile ground is. and I make no apologies for that.

    It is indeed also unsurprising given your venerable age that you conjure up memories of the first and second world war in defence of your argument, totally missing my point that this is history for younger, and I mean younger that my 54 years age group. And is a complete turn off for them, in general though I take no offence, and am just enjoying being called a young whippersnapper!

    As for where they all went, my MSP is Alex Neil, that should be enough for you.

    As the great SmallAxe says, peace and love to you!

  281. Breeks says:

    Remember a few short weeks ago, just before Brexit, how the UK was in such a tiz about Turkey with all those dodgy Arabs imminently joining the EU? EU membership which subsequently suffered a hammer blow after Turkey’s attempted military coup and crackdown on human rights?

    Funny old world innit?

    http://www.euronews.com/2016/09/27/boris-johnson-ditches-insults-and-talks-jumbo-trade-deals-in-turkey

    Seems Boris is also up to no good, doing “jumbo” trade deals before triggering article 50 when he surely knows that’s against the law. The guy just can’t stay out of trouble.

  282. Robert Kerr says:

    @Arbroath1320 12.35

    There is more than one way of skinning a cat.

    A snap safety inspection and testing of the jetty Fire and Gas system prior to commencing unloading.

    Bet it would fail!

    The F and G equipment is always suspect especially when it is specified for refinery use rather than marine/offshore which is more appropriate to the jetties.

    Embargo unloading until remedial work completed. Cost for ship wasting time to Ineos account!

    Vapour cloud explosions are extreme!

    There is history there which was kept from the public.

  283. Robert Graham says:

    Capella contempt of court aye right get over yerself as if this is a mainstream media outlet widely read by most Scots and any comment would influence proceedings check out coverage so far by our impartial media anyway who made you the king of the hill ?

  284. ronnie anderson says:

    Av lost ma tuning fork The worst rendition of the red flag av ever heard,but the labour Party united Ha Ha will builded ah new jerusalem , thank christ thats over ah kin get oan wie ma day joab.

  285. Capella says:

    @ Robert Graham – you asked the question, at 12.43:
    “as everyone and their grannie has been having an opinion why not folk here”

    I was giving one answer. Twitter was awash with contempt warnings this morning. But it’s up to you.
    See Tweeting your way into prison:
    https://davidbanksmedialaw.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/tweeting-your-way-into-prison/

  286. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T:

    @Andrew McLean says: 28 September, 2016 at 10:27 am:
    “I am truly sorry if I have offend you, and I do seem to have done so … “.

    Andrew – I was writing a long explanation to you on the last topic but it vanished into the ether – so here’s a little briefer version.

    I cannot attempt to dispute the statistics that the present anti-independence in Scotland does indeed come from a more elderly part of the Scottish population for as you say facts are indeed cheils whit dinna ding.

    What I do dispute is the wrong interpretation you, and an ever growing faction of the independence movement, place upon those statistics.

    When I began, as a schoolboy, to be active as an independence activist the demographic was very different from today. Labour had almost border to border control over the local & Westminster parliament and there was no Scottish Parliament. Within that period we had Arthur Donaldson imprisoned without charges ever being brought and the murder of Willie McRae that was/is blatantly, and obviously wrongly, classed as Willie committing suicide.

    We activists were regarded as somewhat odd and more than a little mad. The average Scot then couldn’t even swap channels as there was only one TV broadcaster. What happened when there was a political matter on TV or, “The Wireless”, was that they switched off and went to the kitchen to make tea.

    In the case of the newspapers the readers just turned the page without reading the political item. The demographic was thus almost 100% Unionist even if the average Scot thought it was Scottish politics.

    From that time, and due to the long hard grind on the part of independence activists, the demographic has changed. The fact now is roughly 50/50 and moving inexorably towards independence.

    So let us consider what that actually means and not the way you, and an ever growing faction within the independence movement, seem to interpret it.

    Back in time there was border to border unionist political control over Scotland. Thus there were a great many people in that time who were wielding political power at local & national government, (No Scottish Parliament), who were mainly all unionists. As they were replaced at election times by unionists people in Scotland from other unionist parties there were an even greater number of non-elected unionist politically motivate people in Scotland.

    Now add to them their immediate & extended families and in-laws plus their hangers on and the picture changes somewhat.

    As the independence movement gathered strength it soon becomes evident that those people, although a dying breed, are going to become more and more composed of the more elderly in the population. These are the actual people who were doing the harm to Scotland we all know about now and they are neither going to go away or change their self interested views. They are after all, “The Establishment”, and they have their own feelings of their personal entitlement to run Scotland for themselves.

    The thing is that they too, as well as such as myself, are members of a dying breed. However, the fact is that they are not Unionists simply because they are more elderly – they are Unionists simply because they have always been unionist and they always will be unionists.

    But here’s the thing, Andrew, I personally know lots of former unionists who will say things like, “I used to always vote Labour but I’ll never vote Labour ever again”.

    These are usually early to late middle-aged people who have had their eyes opened – few though, are from the ranks of the political dynasties of former voted to office families or their families and hingers oan.

  287. Andrew McLean says:

    Robert Peffers
    thanks for taking the time to reply, 37 years ago I was a real whippersnapper, youth delegate from UCATT to the STUC, left wing in politics, and although I believed in Independence, thought wrongly the SNP were tartan Tories, I am from Monklands, worked for the council in Motherwell, even worked in our Mr Reid’s house, quite what we were doing their was beyond my pay grade.

    So I have been around the block, seen graft in Monklands close hand, met council employees in Glasgow who were forced to sign contracts to the highest bidder because he was a fridge magnate.

    My point Robert is you are correct, but if history tells us one thing, converts tend to be the most voracious of campaigners, so I will not give up hoping that they see the light, I also truly believe you are wrong about being a member of a dying breed, you’re not, your a member of a youth movement, at the dawn of a new age. 56 MP’S, you can’t kill that!

  288. Breeks says:

    call me dave says:
    28 September, 2016 at 12:30 pm
    Nicola Sturgeon: Brexit will “probably” end in constitutional wrangle before Supreme Court judges…

    Probably? ?

    It will a “constitutional wrangle” which can quote the AXA General Insurance Limited and others (Appellants) v The Lord Advocate and others (Respondents) (Scotland) case as precedent.

    Judgment date 12 Oct 2011: (So it is current, not buried under 700 years of cobwebs).

    Neutral citation number [2011] UKSC 46

    Case ID = UKSC 2011/0108

    In short, the UK Supreme Court hasn’t the jurisdiction to overturn the popular sovereignty of Scotland’s people.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-sovereignty-for-dummies/

    “Lord Cooper’s core finding was that the Acts of Union preserved the rights of the Scottish people as being sovereign, and that that status is an essential part of the Acts which cannot be changed, for all time”.

  289. K1 says:

    The mair ye contemplate it, our ancestors had some incredible foresight…they made sure we would always be Sovereign, it’s as if they knew this time would come when Scotland would have to fight for her survival.

    When push comes to shove “that that status is an essential part of the Acts which cannot be changed, for all time”

    We may well now be entering the final phase where this essential part is invoked, crunch time is fast approaching. Nicola has the measure of where we are at, of that I’m sure.

  290. Robert Peffers says:

    Andrew McLean says: 28 September, 2016 at 5:36 pm:

    “Thanks for taking the time to reply, 37 years ago I was a real whippersnapper, youth delegate from UCATT to the STUC, left wing in politics, and although I believed in Independence, thought wrongly the SNP were tartan Tories”

    Indeed Andrew, back then almost all of Scotland also believed we were Tartan Tories. Some of them still do.

    ” … I am from Monklands, worked for the council in Motherwell, even worked in our Mr Reid’s house, quite what we were doing their was beyond my pay grade.”

    You and I may well have been present in the same room together, Andrew. I Shop stewarded for around 15 years and was often delegated for Scottish wide TU and STUC meetings even for some years before both sides of that 15 years stewarding.

    Back then I may have been the only SNP shop steward in Scotland, or indeed in the UK.

    Mind you I worked in electronics for the MOD so we were in different industries. I don’t think I met a non-Labour union, or STUC, rep in all those 15 odd years.

    Anyhow, I know my point is correct. I live in the former mining village of Kelty in Fife and the area was, until recent years, a Labour and Communist stronghold.

    I look out my front windows and see Lumphinnans across some fields and Lochore Meadows Country Park. Lumphinnans just saw the last elected Communist in the UK retire when Willie Clarke had to give up due to ill health. Willie, a good and honest man, had to stand as an independent but made no secret of his communist background. Mind you Willie’s communism was nothing like that of the former Soviet Union.

    Believe me, when I arrived in Kelty, “The Voice crying in the wilderness”, had nothing on me. Anyway, to get to the point. If we take Kelty as a small pattern for Scotland as a whole because the village is still small enough that most people in the village either know each other or know just exactly who they are and who they are related to.

    Kelty was described thus to me by a friend who was a Labour Councillor for some years, “In Kelty they ir aa earsehole connections”. Now he did not mean they were all sexually active together. In his Scots language his meaning was that they were all somehow interconnected over many years either as blood relatives or by marriage.

    Kelty has several Labour dynasty families who have provided elected politicians of all ranks including at least two Fife and/or Dunfermline Provosts and the present Labour deputy leader is the son of a former Labour councillor.

    The point is when you can trace back their family and in-law connections there is a large proportion of the village with direct family or marriage connections to the Labour party, the Co-op or the Trade union movement.

    This is why I know that those dyed in the wool unionists who will never convert are indeed those who are in the older age group but it is not their ages that makes them unionists. It is indeed their family connections.

    You could say, “Blood is thicker than independence”, as far as these people are concerned. Furthermore, I can attest they seem to feel they should be entitled to rule Scotland and that, Andrew is the basis of their innate hatred of the SNP, (or should that be, “Innane hatred of the SNP”?

  291. Andrew McLean says:

    Robert, what you say is true, but regardless of age, I have three close friends of over 40 years, all three unionists, one liberal and two Tory, I can’t give up on them, I am an evangelical in my passion to convert.

  292. Mike says:

    There is also the fact that the comparison is between 56 SNP MPs and 41 Labour MPs.
    So 41 Labour MPs managed to cost the tax payer more than 56 SNP MPs have in flight costs to London.

  293. Fred says:

    Fred considers himself extremely fortunate in not knowing any Liberals at all. 🙂

  294. Jack Murphy says:

    Comment on Main Article.
    I think the Express and Neil Findlay were made for one another.
    Both are a disgrace.
    Over and Out.

  295. Keith far Leith says:

    @ Rev Stu: quick question, what is the source for the expenses table?

    Trying to convince a soft no, but they buy the bile spewed in your direction from the MSM.

    He’s no yet ready for the whole truth yet, but when he awakens he’ll be here getting it from the horses mouth, so to speak.

  296. Keith fae Leith says:

    Rev Stu or fellow wingers, I’m trying to convince a soft no, but they won’t come here directly.

    Does anyone have the source for the yearly travel expenses “table”

    Ta muchly

  297. TJenny says:

    HandandShrimp – I voted for Alyn Smith as he’s our MEP , seems to be held in some regard in EU parly, and I think will have been laying a lot of the groundwork for our indy entry/remaining in the EU. Not that I don’t think very highly of Tommy Shepard, I do and he’s my MP, or Angus Robertson, but I think that Alyn has the edge by being already in the EU parly set up, and making him Depute, gives credence to our sincerity on the EU.

    I actually think, given the Brexit scenario, we should probably have 2 deputes, a UK and Brexit one.

    Has that helped, or hindered your decision? 😉

  298. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “quick question, what is the source for the expenses table?”

    IPSA, the official Parliamentary expenses body.



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