The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Your voice counts for nothing

Posted on March 30, 2016 by

STV’s Bernard Ponsonby asks Kezia Dugdale about the possibility of a future second referendum should the Scottish electorate express a clear democratic wish for one:

(Not taken out of context. To see the full clip, go to around 1h 43m here.)

Print Friendly

    105 to “Your voice counts for nothing”

    1. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Full answer here:

    2. bobajock says:

      Guess its over then, lets get back to unionists in charge … oh, but they are at the moment. Kez, the poor thing, is like a limp slug intellectually. A big hitter she is not, a mis-hitter she is constantly, but on target she was with this – the truth about unionists – “you cannot escape, we don’t believe in democracy”.

    3. Papko says:

      Lets have a referendum about having a referendum then.
      And make it binding .

    4. Jules says:

      Notwithstanding the p1sh she comes out with much of the time, it’s Kez’s faux-sincere-earnestness that does my nut in. She even manages to do it with just one 2-letter word in this clip..!

      Still, she’s an improvement on the last guy.

    5. Calum Craig says:

      Aaaah, you linked to an STV Player page!!

    6. Doug Daniel says:

      She was absolutely awful tonight. You wouldn’t think it was possible to get a worse branch manager than Jim Murphy, but it looks like they’ve managed it.

      And we’ve still got Anas Sarwar’s inevitable backstabbing to look forward to after May!

    7. Westviews says:

      Kez once again showing that being the product of two teachers is not always a good thing.

    8. Ruglonian says:

      If the purpose of these debates is to leave viewers despairing and therefore apathetic, then I’d understand – they’ve been dire πŸ™

      Doug Daniel: ah, more good news πŸ˜‰

      (I’m starting to feeling like Marvin from H2G2 – my only consolation is that I’m sure I’m not alone *sigh*)

    9. The Man in the Jar says:

      Both Labour and the Tories pitching for the hard core yoon vote. It is all that they have left. Feckin state of the pair of them!

    10. Douglas Macdonald says:

      Westviews says:

      Kez once again showing that being the product of two teachers is not always a good thing.

      Not necessarily. Both her parents, I understand, are SNP supporters. Perhaps, she ought to have listened to them a bit more often, when she was at school.

    11. Cherry says:

      To be honest is anyone surprised? Labour have been ignoring the Scottish public for decades. Kezia has just told us that our opinions mean nothing.

      At one time I felt quite sorry for her. Now she deserves everything that’s coming in May and it really can’t come soon enough.

      The yoons have nothing whatsoever to say to me.

      SNP X 2 EU IN

    12. blackhack says:

      I feel sorry for that wee lassie….Even if the people of Scotland demand another referendum, She and her party will say Naw….And the labour party wonder why they’re going to lose the upcoming election….

    13. Chic McGregor says:

      I am beginning to suspect that when Kezia was rejected for a position with the SNP, instead of letting her down gently by saying ” We don’t think you’re ready. Why not come back in a year or two when you have more experience?” instead the interviewers dissolved into a paroxysm of giggles, perhaps even wetting themselves.

      Just a theory.

    14. All hail Kezia for cutting British Labour’s throat in Scotland.

      Gaun yirselves, Wullie and La Tankie for the hara-kiri assist re slicing your own Unionist factions’s guts, to boot.

      Perhaps I am wrong, so please correct me, but this forensic exposure of Ms Dugdale, apart, by Mr Ponsonby, I thought this STV debate appalling on their part.

      Perhaps, they ought to learn something from the lady in the audience who tore Ms Dugdale thoroughly and logically apart before Mr Ponsonby’s late journalistic rally to the ethics of his profession in what was a bit of a stairheid rammy?

      Maybe being too hard on himself and STV, but the whole charade gave me the boak.

      Do we have to follow this USA style boot-boy ego fest?

    15. Stewart Purves says:

      My Take on Tonight’s debate, @nicolasturgeon & @patrick harvey = Competent, @keziadugdale & @ruthedavidson= Poor, @willierennie = irrelevant

    16. Arbroath1320 says:

      So we have the situation where:

      1) the Leetle Tankette Commander ignores the wishes of the people of Scotland with regards to FREE education, prescription, eye tests etc.

      2) Wee Willie whatnot ignores the wishes of his party members (all 10 of them πŸ˜€ ) and decides the LD’s WILL not support fracking despite the membership saying YES.

      3) Wee Kez stating unequivocally that if the S.N.P. win in May with a mandate for second referendum she will NOT respect the mandate or by inference the people of Scotland who will have voted for the S.N.P.

      I think I am therefore free to make the following statement. ;

      I unequivocally disrespect the Leetle Tankette Commander, Wee Willie Whatnot and Wee Kez. I will continue to disrespect them all until such times as THEY, or their replacement leader’s after May 5th πŸ˜‰ , make the statement to everyone in Scotland that THEY will respect US, the people of Scotland no matter how vote!

    17. Arbroath1320 says:

      To be honest Douglas I seem to recall that oor wee Kez did actually try to become an S.N.P. councillor (I think πŸ˜‰ ) but was turned down. πŸ˜€

      No matter what anyone says at least there is one thing for sure … the S.N.P. really do have standards! πŸ˜€

    18. geeo says:

      This is Kezia Dugdale, and labour’s, Gerald Ratner moment.

      Bernard seemed to twig she was not listening to the question 1st time round, so threw her a lifebelt by repeating the question (slowly) to help her out.

      Unfortunately, Bernard was unaware Kezia thought a lifebelt was worn on the top of her head….

      I have a wee query for Rev Stu.

      How far would the labour vote have to fall before they start having serious loses to previously forecast list seats ?

      Is there a cliff edge or just a gradual falling away of seats ?

    19. Hector says:

      Well done STV. At last a party political debate that was interesting, stimulating and informative. No contest with the dry, turgid debate hosted by BBC. The audience, at last, appeared reasonably representative of the Scottish electorate.

      Kezia, oh dear, what can I say? She may have been coached to smile but her body language towards Nichola was completely passive aggressive and thus belied her facial expressions.

      Nichola, a true star, listened intently to each contribution from her fellow leaders but never once relinquished her dignity as Scotlands First Minister and completely dominated the debate. Nichola was as strong and impressive as she was in the GE leaders debate.

      Patrick Harvie’s passion and belief shone through and I really enjoyed his contributions. Cogent, articulate and persuasive. The only other leader in this debate who looked and sounded like a real political leader with the potential to be First Minister.

      Ruth, crumbled under cross examination and was well skelped. All in all, the only serious contenders for Holyrood 2016 are SNP and Nichola for First Minister and the only party fit for opposition, the Greens!

    20. Macart says:

      Ms Dugdale was just so very eager to answer that question with a static party line response. The context used by Mr Ponsonby was quite specific and Kezia walked right into it.

      If the people mandate the First Minister and the Scottish Government Kezia, its the duty of that government to respond to their wishes.(Just a wee hint there)

      Car crash.

    21. geeo says:

      There were an awful lot of tory supporters there or every No voter there, regardless of party alliance were happy to cheer a tory.

      Cannot believe that lot just do not have one big “United Unionist Party” for Holyrood elections….be as well to be honest..!

    22. geeo says:

      Regards my last comment.

      Scottish Hateful Unionist Triumverate, for Unionist Policies (for feckin simpletons).

      Or for short…

      SHUT UP (ffs)…..

    23. kat hamilton says:

      nicola was elegant, thoughtful and every inch the first minister…they tried their best but couldnt wrong foot her…patrick harvie is well worth listening to, articulate and puting forward a vision for a fairer, better scotland..why the unionist are left out of time and ideas..fraid that edinburgh will be a tough city to convert, small numbers at pro indy rally and an over abundance of elderly/anglo leafy suburb types who were typical of the studio audience..nicola held the line well but undercurrents of hostility there…

    24. David says:

      To be fair to Keza Labour ignoring the electorate isn’t a new thing. The only thing that is surprising is that the yoon parties continue to operate separately when maintaining the union seems to be the only thing they believe in.

    25. David Mills says:

      Orwell would be proud of SLAB imbracing Double talk, new speak Labour candidate & members can voice support for independence with out fear of sensure but their oppinons are irrelevant KD has spoken bit Like Willie R and Fracking if they don’t respect internal democracy how can they be trusted with the nation

    26. Naina Tal says:

      Don’t like to get into personal appearance. But any significance in choice of colour worn by the ladies? Nicola in bright socialist red and kezia sporting the big blue tory whale look?

    27. jimnarlene says:

      I don’t think she knew what she was saying, just an automatic response, “I refuse to agree with anything the SNP say, or do” sort of thing.

      Bit like a rabbit, caught, in the headlights; more dazzled, than dazzling.

    28. Giving Goose says:

      Never under estimate the level of control exercised by London on Kezia.

      Simply put, Kezia cannot say anything without it first being ok’d by her London masters.

      This question will have been anticipated by London and Kezia told what to say.
      London means “NO”..end of!

      On another note; I see steel making is doomed in the UK. Take a look at a map of the location of the effected steel works.

      Will geography influence the UK governments inevitable non intervention?
      Clue; no locations in London.

      Will the industry type influence the UK governments inevitable non intervention?
      Clue; steel plants are NOT banks.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      There are three stances SLab can realistically take on Indy. Go with the flow, if the Scots want it, SLab will support it. Stay neutral and allow individual members to choose. Take a hardline Unionist line.

      The problem with the third option is the Tories have it covered. Trying to out-Tory the Tories is not a good idea in Scotland. Bad move.

      I thought Kezia had previously taken a more neutral stance? In a recent academic study of Yes IndyRef activists, something like 15% (can’t remember exactly) were Labour Party members. Sitting on the fence looks weak and indecisive, which does seem Labour’s approach to most things now.

      Then we have the brave option, back the Scottish people whatever they decide. Definitely not the Labour way!

    30. frogesque says:

      Oh well! Why shoot yourself in the foot when you can blast both your kneecaps?

      Still got the giggles from last night’s comment (forget who wrote it) about the 1950’s nit nurse lol.

    31. Chitterinlicht says:

      Did Alex Salmond not once say that Scotland could never be independant whilst central Scotland voted labour in large numbers?

      If KD is best they have to offer it may be closer than you think.

      She is out of her depth.

      RD blustered and flustered but successfully nailed KD to Tory UK supporter wall and left her hanging.

      Dictator Willie Rennie dictated nothing. Imagine going against party votes in your manifesto-how could you trust them with the country? Proven Liar party.

      Mr Harvie was honest and did well.

      NS did well but did not need to try so hard tbh.

      Well done STV miles better than BBC effort.

      BBC and Labour seem linked to each other’s demise in Scotland – shame.

    32. HaggisHunter says:

      A classic case of more ambition than ability.

      The future is predictable, Slab get slaughtered at the election, Kez resigns, there’s a leadership contest.

      Next LabTory leader with lots of BBC STV spin.

    33. Tony Little says:

      I didn’t see the debate as I am outwith Scotland right now, but if this is representative of Labour’s position vis. the electorate, why would anyone want to vote for them at all? Will this be a Scot’s electorate “wake up” call?

      Seems more likely that fed-up ex-Lab voters switch straight across to the Tories. Most of them hold the same opinions it seems, so why bother with the “lite” equivalent?

      @geeo: About the Lab melt-down. As far as I understand the system, Labour would have t poll at less than 10% on the regional vote to make their representation in Holyrood nominal. 5% should get them some MSPs and the higher it goes, the more MSPs they are likely to get. Specific regional variations will make the numbers higher or lower.

      Try one of the on-line election calculators and play around with the figures. πŸ˜‰

    34. JLT says:

      Utterly staggering! What we saw in those last two minutes of the debate was literally, the true face of Scottish Labour.

      First, a full admission by Kezia that she won’t recognise the ‘will of the people’. She does not recognise that the Scottish people are sovereign. So, if Nicola Sturgeon sees opinion polls hitting 60-odd % with people wanting a referendum on independence, and possibly even more looking for change of some sort, Kezia and SLAB won’t recognise it. That is shocking to begin with. The voice of the people will not be recognised by SLAB.

      Secondly, it also tells us how SLAB, and to a much greater degree, Labour UK, in how they view Scotland. An area or ‘region’ (not a nation to them) that belongs to the Labour Party and no one else. No wonder they hate they hate the SNP with such unbridled passion. It also tells us that in their eyes, they can do whatever the hell they want in Scotland, despite what the Scottish people actually want …and that Labour will not be held accountable.

      Kezia’s admission also flies in the face of the pamphlets that Ruth held up that some Labour candidates saying they would recognise the will of the people when it came to independence, and therefore, might even back it! So where does that leave those candidates with the SLAB hierarchy?

      It was no wonder that not a single person in the audience clapped when Kezia stopped speaking. It was a tumbleweed moment of epic proportions.

      Then when Ruthie literally said the same things …applause.

      Kezia must now realise that she is in with a good shout of finishing behind the Tories. If she wondered why no one clapped for her, well, that’s because the Labour support split two ways; most have moved to the SNP and some to the Tories.

      As I saw one quote earlier from one Winger, pointing out that SLAB have tried to out-Tory the Tories, and well …you just can’t do that in Scotland. It’s political suicide

      …and yet, that was what we saw on TV last night from Kezia laid bare SLAB’s political opinions in those last two minutes to the entire Scottish nation.

    35. Fermerfaefife says:

      Anybody else notice the kez willie tennis tag team effort in the cross examination where they threw each other softies so
      they could explain their own policies?
      Thought Patrick harvie did very well and could even have shaded debate. If you remove some of the madder ideas they could do ok. Least they are thinking a bit more radical. To win an indy ref 2 then snp has to give public a taste of indy but their fairly timid proposals doesn’t cut it. Quite disappointed. Greens just might get my list vote.

    36. Macart says:

      A word or two on that very subject which had Kezia flummoxed.

    37. Grouse Beater says:

      And newspapers have Dugdale’s anti-democratic stance emblazoned all over their front pages – yes?

      Of course not.

      Main topic on television news?

      Of course not.

      Does the MSM give a care about Scotland’s democracy?

      Would I be posting this if it did?

    38. Sledger says:

      “I would like to think that people who supported Yes in the referendum and who might have that view again in the future have a home in the Scottish Labour party.”

      “Yes. Many Labour party members, in fact almost 30 per cent of Labour party supporters, voted Yes. We know that now from all the evidence and I respect that.

      “I want people who voted both Yes and No to see that the Labour party is the vehicle for progressive change in this country, which is why I am completely comfortable and, in fact, would encourage people who voted Yes in the past to take a look at our party and see that it has changed.”

      “Yes. Many Labour party members, in fact almost 30 per cent of Labour party supporters, voted Yes. We know that now from all the evidence and I respect that.”

      “I’m not going to shut down my party’s renewal and debate in my party because people hold a different position round independence.”

      Kezia Dugdale – September 2015

    39. Sledger says:

      Apologies for the duplicate partial quote.

    40. Macart says:

      This was the same Kezia who assured the Beeb, on the politics show I think, that should there be another referendum, she would not prevent Labour MPs (snigger) and MSPs campaigning for independence.

      Appears under young Kezia, they’d never be given the chance.

      Who knew?

    41. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Gary Robertson on Radio Shortbread there giving Kez a hard time. Looks like he has been reading Wings. Threw her a fastball re standing on the list that she claimed was a disgrace when Eck did it. Now where could he have seen that…

      She was fumbling about APD as well.

    42. One_Scot says:

      Oh, so now, according to Kezia it’s ‘a once in a lifetime opportunity’, what’s next, ‘once in a millennium’. Do these Yoons just make this shit up as they go.

      The once in a generation saying was just one persons opinion, (an opinion, not SNP policy), which was said before Cameron changed the goal posts by fraudulently offering the so called Vow, Home rule, Devo Max, after people had voted, which he never delivered.

      And theses Yoons have the gall to try and stop people having the right to what another referendum after they were robbed of the first.

      It beggars belief.

    43. call me dave says:

      Not in favour of blood sports in Scotland and cringed a bit as I heard Deputy Deadwood being torn apart on GMS a wee while ago.

      “Oh stop it someone” I thought as I winced. Auntie can be so cruel and Rennie still to come tomorrow… Popcorn has lost it’s appeal, raw liver and a nice chianti on the menu.


    44. Another Union Dividend says:

      The millionaire Labour candidate in Edinburgh Southern has also promised, in Tory areas only, never to support a second democratic referendum should voters demand it.

      This “non politcal” candidate’s first job was working for the disgraced Labour MP Nigel Griffiths, whose election agent,Henry Philip, is making personal attacks on the SNP candidate Jim Eadie in the local press.

      More on Daniel Johnson here

    45. ScottieDog says:

      Well you have to say looking at some of the highlights (can’t watch full coverage of stuff like this any more) the audience was representative of Edinburgh unlike question time ‘bus in an audience’.

      As for the indyref 2, labour are just trying to tussle for 2nd place in May. Lets out Tory the Tories.

      on the subject of independence, here’s a good article about the farce of the bank of England’s independence..

      Precisely why I have been saying that the core of indyref2 should be a Scottish central bank with a floating Scottish currency.

    46. Training Day says:

      Dugdale all over the place on Shortbread there. On APD, on forgetting the names of BLAB candidates who might or might not exist (their website will tell us if they do exist within the hour, we are promised), on the hypocrisy of attacking Salmond for standing on the list.

      On it goes, while she repeats monotonously the mantra of ‘using the powers of the parliament’ until even BLAB friendly interviewers want to be somewhere, anywhere, else.

      With over a month to go in the campaign she’s already dead in the water. The only question is can things get worse?

    47. The Man in the Jar says:

      Thinking it over I reckon that Dugdale/Slab have been panicked into this kneejerk reaction. They are terrified that Ruth(no referendum)Davidson might just overtake them at the forthcoming Holyrood election.

      The miniscule amount of credibility that they have left even within their own party will be gone.

    48. cearc says:

      She’s a genius!

      Just watchedthe clip on youtube. The ‘nextup’ item on the autoplay list was, ‘7 signs she doesn’t love you anymore’!

      Oor Kez did it in one.

    49. One_Scot says:

      Ruth and Kezia, it’s a classic love story.

      Ruth meets Kezia,
      Kezia stands shoulder to shoulder with Ruth,
      Ruth punches Kezia square in the face on national telly.

      It timeless.

    50. Sinky says:

      Eleven anti SNP letters in Hootsman newspaper this morning.

      Is that a record?

    51. People Carrier says:

      Did KD not say that there’d be no referendum in the lifetime of the next parliament if Labour was elected? Does that mean the ‘once in a lifetime’ constraint previously espoused, has been dropped?

    52. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      So much for the “Respect” agenda…oh wait…that was the Tories…oh wait (pairt the segunde)…I was right…lol

    53. One_Scot says:

      Man, how much does it cost for a proofreader.

    54. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ 08:01 Sledger says:

      Dugdale is not in charge of the political narrative, internal or external.

      Externally she has the SNP setting the agenda to which she has to respond and internally she has to respond to London and their demands. Lay onto that Ruthie undermining her, and she is fighting battles on 3 fronts in different terrains.

      She thus has to make it all up on the hoof.

      It shows.

    55. Famous15 says:

      O/T Call Kaye with the other wummin gleefully using cancer as a stick to beat the Scottish NHS.

      BBC disgusts me!

    56. msean says:

      So. If the people want something,they will only get what Labour think they should get? Whether Yes or No,there is nothing wrong with asking the voters anything.

      Referendums are democratic,the Swiss have them all the time and their system isn’t about to collapse because a question is asked,it might even be stronger.

    57. Iain says:

      After that performance Kezia had better prepare for the job centre rather than government.

    58. Skooshcase says:

      As someone else mentioned above, and to be fair, I think her first “No!” was just her normal instinctive reaction to any question at all that involves ‘the SNP’ and ‘Do you agree?’ without really listening to the actual premise of the question.

      But, she was given a Get Out of Jail card second chance by Ponsonby to clear up her ‘error’… and then went on to make things even worse for herself and her party by emphatically stating that it was, indeed, a definite “No!”, and, not only that, but it was “a guarantee”…?!

      Dearie, dearie me!

      Labour’s Scottish Branch Office with captain Kez in command have now set the controls for the heart of the sun, not to go out in some blazingly brilliant last hurrah of glory, oh no, but to be quickly extinguished like the pants of an overly exuberrant teenager who thinks it’s fun to light his farts after an all-day session followed by a Vindaloo.

    59. Naina Tal says:

      Dinnae blame the lassie. She’s oot o’ her depth. Plain tae see last nicht. Bit Shairly she has had some kin o guidance ahint the scenes? An whey did the let her pit oan yon froke?
      Britnat Labour spin doctors were brocht in tae sort the cutlery drawer efter a visit frae Uri Geller.

    60. Luigi says:

      I heard three distinct unionist voices I heard last night (I’ll leave you to decide which one belongs to which):

      1. “I’m against another referendum because I passionately believe in the United Kingdom (and eventually I want a safe seat in England so I have to make the right noises)”.

      2. “I’m against another referendum because I have been instructed to say this by my bosses in London (I am only a branch manager, after all)”.

      3. “I’m against another referendum because the SNP are really bad. You just can’t trust them, and because……dum de dum de dum…..erm, Oh look, a squirrel!”.

    61. ScottieDog says:

      On the subject of democracy, there’s an interesting discussion in the second part of the keiser report about UK citizens post-2008 crisis and why there wasn’t more outrage at the banks…

      The reason is simply that the media are part of the establishment as max rightly alludes to.

    62. Sassenach says:

      “An whey did the let her pit oan yon froke?”

      Obviously, to get the sympathy votes!

    63. PRJ says:

      I thought the labour party recently welcomed independence supporters back into the party, are they now ignoring them? It appears this invite is as hollow as the Labour party.

    64. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland voted NO to Toryism why won’t Ruth Davidson respect the will of the Scottish people and stop trying to get elected

    65. galamcennalath says:

      @Luigi at 9:35

      That would be the leaders of Max, Cherry and Classic.

      What stands out for me is that the Unionist leaders are no longer making any pitch towards SNP, Green or Yes supporters. They are only competing with each other for a share of the shrinking Unionist vote.

    66. Luigi says:

      Has Kezia and her London bosses written off that huge chunk of Labour support that voted YES in 2014? Talk about a gift to the SNP – you could not ask for a better way to consolidate the SNP’s gigantic support than Kezia’s “NO NO NO” last night.

      Nats to the left, yoons to the right. Ever seen what happens when a Labour party gets squeezed hard?

      We are about to find out. πŸ™‚

    67. Andrew Mclean says:

      Alan Mackintosh says: 8:28
      “Gary Robertson on Radio Shortbread there giving Kez a hard time. Looks like he has been reading Wings”

      Yes I also was listening to that and thought “the rev has just scored!”. I did feel that Gary was a bit softer spoken in his questioning, then I realised he is a man speaking to a child, so understandable. By the way what is the revenue raised on APD spent on now, surely cutting it, or not cutting it has the same effect, if you cut you have less money in, excepting for a moment the argument it will raise more in the future, the immediate effect is you have less money, now if you don’t cut it you have the same money coming in, and unless the exchequer is siphoning the money off to buy sweeties it is being used to pay for, let’s say the NHS.So I wont take a pay cut and use the extra money to pay, er what I am using it for now?
      Garry “The chancellor is cutting APD for under 16’s will you”?
      Kezia “we will not cut APD”

      Come on Garry wake up! that means she is in effect making going on holiday more expensive in Scotland for the ubiquitous ” hard working families”, in effect raising a tax, using her terminology.
      Kezia is definitely a great asset to the SNP, I think they should send her a cake in May!

      Now here is BBC propaganda red it tooth and claw, Kezia “APD raises between 70 and 120 Million, we are taking the lower amount”;
      BBC 20 min later Labour says not cutting APD will generate over 100 million” what the hell BBC? Now if you went to a meeting with a colleague and you asked him to make notes and report back, and during the meeting your customer, partners or whatever said we will raise 70 to 120 but we will give you the lower amount. Later you both go into your boss, and when your boss asked how much am I getting, and your colleague says over 100, would you say nothing or call him a bloody idiot. Would you trust him to accompany you to the next meeting? clearly not!

    68. mealer says:

      Jules 12.41am
      Kezia is an improvement on the last guy and the next guy.This is what has Nicola shaking in her boots.Kezia is the powerhouse of Labour in Scotland.

    69. orri says:

      Lets throw her a line folks.

      She did not say she would not respect a mandate for a second referendum.

      She said that if Labour have anything to do with it there won’t be one.

      In a 2 option vote 55% might not be considered a vast majority. Not to say that the vast majority of those who voted No might have done so in the belief it was indeed a once in a lifetime thing but that in no way implies that they were the majority of those who voted. Nor does she claim to want anything to do with those who voted Yes with that self same belief.

      Do we really have to remind these people that the fundamental principle of Westminster is that you don’t elect people as Dictator for Life. Or that by the rules they play by and as Cameron himself pointed out one parliament can’t bind its successor. There is no legally binding way of enforcing a once in a lifetime/generation referendum. It’s a figure of speech and at best an educated guess. Salmond and Sturgeon, when allowed to elaborate, said as much. There’s even video of Sturgeon saying as much lurking in the archives.

    70. orri says:

      Might be worth contemplating the implications of a steady rise in support for both independence and the SNP in Scotland as far as any political vetting of presenters on the BBC and ITV goes. As long as they’re not overt about it their employers will have no valid reason for side lining them. In fact we may soon reach a stage, especially in the BBC, where some of the most apparently neutral or at least mildly anti-SNP presenters are replaced for no good reason. Which would be a tactical blunder of course.

      The same goes for the legal profession, the police, the Army and so on. It’s far to late for any political vetting.

    71. Dan Huil says:

      Dugdale, Davidson and the other one are about as honestly sincere as Murphy. Together they have set a new stenchmark of the wretched Scottish Cringe.

    72. Andrew Mclean says:

      orri says:9:55 am
      Let’s throw her a line folks.
      More Rope surely?

    73. starlaw says:

      If this mornings Call Kay’s phone in on cancer and the Scottish NHS was an attempt to reflect badly on the SNP it failed completely. This was not the result they expected, and shame on them for trying and well done the Scottish NHS for services to their communities.

    74. Clootie says:

      Orri 9:55am

      …she didn’t listen, even after a second attempt. She has no intention of listening in the future. She is a dedicated unionist puppet.

    75. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Will Labour respect an SNP mandate from the Scottish people for a second independence referendum?”

      “No.” – Kezia Dugdale, STV debate, 29th March, 2016.

      Put that on every leaflet posted through every letterbox in Scotland. Labour are truly finished.

    76. Nation Libre says:

      I too noticed the Willie and Kezia love in, thought it was pretty obvious it was a set up and was surprised no one commented on it

      As a side note, do the people at The National go to bed early? What’s with today’s top stories (I’m not The Rock, so don’t start)

      No ‘Kezia says whatever, it’s NO’ or ‘Tory Tuition Fees’

    77. The one persistent message I took from last night’s debate (I’ve just watched it on I player) is that if I want the the least expensive route into more personal debt to pay for austerity Britain’s spiralling debt, a wee fat man with a twirly moustache sitting in a taxi has all the answers. Go figure it. Go Compare.

      It is clear from last night’s debacle that there is no alternative to returning a Pro Self Determination Government in May.

      Ruth, Kezia, and Wullie are just not up to it, as their mouthing pamphleteering banner headlines of no substance throughout the space between adverts, does not a politician make.

      Prescription charges, Pay for your education, tax the poor and ‘hard working families’ Aye right..

      A mish mash of Unionist frippery, and don’t forget the Β£15 billion black hole nonsense (which even if it were true)) is where we stand now as part of their feckin’ blessed Union.

      I see we have settled on 152,000 college places cut by the BAD SNP. Better Together on message with yet another distortion of the facts.

      Usual hand clapping Unionists making up half of the audience.

      Ponsonby did his best to put NS on the spot.

      ‘Will a future Referendum be on the SNP manifesto?’

      Well, it’s called the ‘Scottish National Party’, Bernard. It does what it says on the tin.

      I’ll assume that their manifesto will include a section on pursuing their ultimate goal of Self Determination, with the rider that there is growing support by the residents of Scotland. The people will decide..

      Kezia won’t let the people decide.

      You had your Referendum . You lost. That’s it decided , for ever , apparently.

      What a mish mash of a 1.43 minutes that was (32 minutes of adverts selling us more personal debt, and so on )

      I am more than convinced that we should never let any of the Better Together Branch Managers near governing Scotland.

    78. farrochie says:

      Yet Kezia Dugdale is on the record saying that she would allow a free vote if there is a second referendum.

    79. Almannysbunnet says:

      Kezia promised labour independence supporters she would welcome them back into the party. Nobody came. The party’s over.
      Kezia will not listen to the Scottish people if they want another referendum. Fine, none of her business, we stopped listening to her party in 2014.
      The three stooges keep harping on about once in a generation. In political terms a generation is the lifetime of one parliament (my definition) so piss off. It’s over, the clock has been reset.
      Scotland has left Kezia, Ruth and Willie behind, we have moved on and because of that they are doomed.
      Their future jobs? Secretary, bouncer, traffic warden. Have fun guessing which is which.

    80. mike cassidy says:

      I agree with the thought that her first response was a Pavlov dog reaction.

      But her failure to react to the second chance – did she even realise Ponsonby was being gracious – exposed her as a wee school lassie in an adult body

      like a Scottish version of one of those Hollywood bodyswap films.

      If Slab fail to finish ahead of a civilwarring Tory party, then this is as good a moment as any to point to when looking for the selfdestruction event.

    81. ahundredthidiot says:

      Kez is just…….I don’t have the words

    82. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Almannysbunnet –

      Rennie as traffic warden?

      Nah…that’s too hard-core for him.


    83. Sassenach says:

      At one point Kezia quoted some figure, to Nicola, from the Joseph Rowntree organisation – I’ll bet Wee Wullie was momentarily thinking ” Oh no….”!!

    84. Fred says:

      The greatest Slab leader since Donald Dewar! according to McWhirter. This way to the cliff. πŸ™‚

    85. Breastplate says:

      agreed that we are quite entitled to have a new Indyref with a new parliament.
      I would like the SNP to make that clear in their manifesto so as to head off any arguments about what was implied and what wasn’t.
      They should also make clear that every time they are elected they will have an Indyref until they’ve reached their goal.

    86. ArtyHetty says:

      Kez, taking orders from her masters in London. ‘Scotland is just a word’. Imagine anyone in any other country saying such a thing, about their own country, it’s truly mind boggling.

      O/T sorry.

      I was doing a bit of research cor my geology fascination, and ended up finding info on mining going on in UKok at present, lots of it.

      Sticking out like a sore thumb, N.Irelands has an abundance of gold, recently discovered, being explored, exploited and extracted. Then I happened to search for gold here, yep, they just struck gold in Tyndrum. High quality gold, quite a bit. The earth and river destroying machinery is on way as we speak, from S.Africa, having already used it to plunder. An Australian company. In an area of natural beauty. Bad news in my opinion, and they are saying the local community will benefit to the tune of 200m, but at what cost. Given the price of gold, 200m is a flash in the pan.

      Not easy to find info, exccept on yahoo news and

      Anyone see this on tv at all?

    87. schrodingerscat says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      Rennie as a Lollipop-man?

      ’bout right, on a brighter note, he wouldnt have to start work until he is 65

    88. heedtracker says:

      Vote NO forever and ever Rupert Carrell bites back.

      “Asked by an audience member what she thought would be the result of another referendum, Sturgeon said: β€œI think the next time we will vote yes, but it is up to the people of Scotland. I accept that I have to get the arguments better this time.”

      But Dugdale countered that the economic case for independence β€œhas fallen apart”, adding: β€œI actually believed you Nicola when you said this was once in a lifetime opportunity. People who voted yes and no want to move on and want us to use the powers we have in our own parliament.”

      Pretty good spin really from these tories. And it is rancid’s The Graun one story a week for their Scotland region.

    89. Dr Jim says:

      John Beattie says everybody thought talk of another Referendum was all over but it seems two politicians think differently

      You gotta luv them for trying eh, if one person falls for it

      #willful thinking?

    90. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Yoons:

      “You said the IndyRef was a once in a generation thing…”

      Harold Wilson:

      “A week’s a long time in politics.”

      Oh and let’s not forget from last night’s debtae, Kezia’s determination to work again, shoulder-to-shoulder, side-by-side with the Tories to stab the people of Scotland in the back when IndyRef#2 is announced.

      Kez–hell mend yae, hen.

    91. orri says:

      Said it before that the List system could do with a bit of a tweak.

      My suggestion would be that you only get to mark one box with either an X meaning you don’t care who gets in or with a number assigned to the candidate of that party. So if you want to vote Labour but not for the party favourite you mark it with the number 2, 3 or so on. Too late to implement it at this late stage I suppose.

    92. schrodingerscat says:

      i enjoyed watching the tories eviserate slab, the last bastion of unionism in scotland

      who would have thunk it

      a scottish unionist party is as far away as ever. good

    93. Almannysbunnet says:

      Dr Jim says:
      30 March, 2016 at 11:59 am
      John Beattie says everybody thought talk of another Referendum was all over

      My question to John Beattie would be, “define everybody.”

    94. Chipmonkey says:

      Time for a snappy little mix to be made someone… ?
      Pop in the old not genetically programmed bit too.

      Labour – committed to ignoring people and democracy.

    95. ronnie anderson says:

      @ ArtyHetty 11.49. They have always known there,s Gold in Scotland its not a new discovery, Betty,s wedding ring has Scottish Gold in it.

    96. Almannysbunnet @ 12.23.

      Who is John Beattie? He played rugby, or some such, didn’t he?
      I’ve avoided the ‘morning after’ BBC Radio Kelvinside.
      Not long now.

    97. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Chipmonkey nice to see you posting ,hope your feeling better, they bloody bugs are fair doing the rounds.

    98. HandandShrimp says:

      Kezia’s new and listening Labour is just the same as the old “Do as yer telt” Labour.

      The more things change the more they stay the same.

    99. Jack Murphy says:

      I don’t believe Dugdale could say this without consulting the Labour Leadership at Labour HQ,
      It is one MONUMENTAL policy decision,and would require HQ approval.
      Now we know—-Labour HQ rules the roost,and Scottish democracy is way down the pecking order!

      SNPx2 in May.

    100. Alun009 says:

      Kez looks tired.

    101. If Memory serves me correctly Jeremy Corbyn also stated that he wouldn’t support nor allow another Scottish independence referendum to take place.

      So Dugdale must be parroting the line of her boss in London.

    102. michael diamond says:

      Maybe kezia’s parents being both snp supporters have influenced her, and she is destroying the liebor party from within intentionally.

    103. Andrew Mclean says:

      Someone once said “I disagree with your opinion but I will fight to the death for your right”
      Kezia and Ruth and Willie, and even you too Nicola, you are politicians who are there to represent the electorate, and you are expected to make laws to better your country.

      That’s all, you have no power to dictate to the electorate what we are able to vote on, if a political party says vote for us and we will do such a thing, and the majority vote in favour. That’s it, end off!

      Were you to take the power to stop demands, what ever those demands were, you cannot be thought to be a democratic representative of the people, and become instead a tyrant! You in particular Kezia need to remember once the labour movement fought to the death to oppose tyranny. That comment you made disgraced the foundering fathers of social inclusion in this country.

    104. Brian McGrath says:

      Maybe, just maybe KD is a plant. No not a vegetable but sent by the SMP to make Labour even worse as we know no one would question the leaders thinking..or lack of it. So if she doesn’t respect the Scottish people, why in the hell did she become an MSP when it’s the people that keep you in a job.?

    105. chris kilby says:

      If the Yoon parties are so certain of the “overwhelming suport” for their precious union, why are they SO opposed to another referendum which they would surely win…?

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top