Wings Over Scotland

FS! I thought that was Obama trying to give Gordon Broon a big kick in the baws.

I haven’t really paid much attention to the US election.
What if it affects the UK?
And then in turn affects the referendum? 

As in-depth an analysis as the subject requires, Rev.

MajorBloodnok

Surely it’s the other way around?  The Washington Post was only saying only the other day that Scottish independence would invariably lead to the end of the world as we know it.

I had no idea that such a small and insignificant country as Scotland wielded so much power on the world stage. Truly stirring stuff. 

Not sure it matters who wins, both candidates will do what the CIA tells them and therin lies the real concern.  The Washington Post story was only saying what the CIA think.  Anyone who was active in nationalist circles in the latter part of last century, will remember only too well the interest taken in the independence movement by security forces both domestic and foreign. The black ops brigade have still to get their act in gear. Scotland will not become independent without a struggle.

Sadly, in spite of all the hyperbole and billions of dollars involved in buying votes, it doesn’t really matter who wins tomorrow. The outcome of tomorrow’s election won’t make much difference to those Americans who do want real change, so whoever wins it won’t make much difference to America in 2014, never mind Scotland. Craig Levein’s departure might have a discernible impact on the independence referendum, though. 

Great picture! My favourite take on the election is

From what I see it will make a big difference yes, and we’d be better with Obama. His foreign policy needs to mature, but Romney will start WWIII.

Will the outcome of the US presidential election affect the referendum campaign?
It depends if the referendum campaign is fought out against the backdrop of an Iranian war and massive oil price hikes.
I’d say that is more probable with Romney but it’s not off the table under Obama too.

I see there is a programme on Channel 4 at 20:00. It is a Despatches programme apparently look at an Israeli “war game” with a view to looking at the possibility of an Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Might be worth a wee watch.

i would prefer a visit to edinburo, scotchland,  from Obama, after we become independent. whilst here, obama could drop in and meet some distant relatives, in ireland, scotchland.

I wonder what the Beeb have against having NON politicians on their Big debates.
 
What are they frightened of?

 
The Beeb’s mindset is keep it in the establishment family
 
link to 1.bp.blogspot.com

Aye your right Major. It’s the fear of the truth slipping out and them not being able to control the outcome that drives them mad.
 
Their lack of control over what others say, and is accepted by the audience, is the MASSIVE elephant in their house. They know that once the YES camp start getting the truth out there into the real world their chance of winning even the simplest of arguments, tea or coffee, is sunk without trace.

It looks like it will be Gary Robertson who is chairing the Big Debate tonight. I think I saw somewhere earlier on that it was to be Isobel Frazer. I guess the high heid yins didn’t think she was unionist enough for the debate tonight.

@douglas clark,
 
How did you resist the temptation to swear? I didn’t when I first saw it.
 
CH may have uncovered the new BBC logo. In fact, if you look carefully, you can see the words ‘Now now, guys an’ gals, ow’s about that then’ hidden in there.

Re the photograph, shame that it’s the ‘security’ guy that gives the game away here, especially those shoes.

Dai I think if the MSM EVER tried to run with their “all Brits” garbage then I think that that would actually work against the union myself.
 
Up till now we have never had a say about whether our young men and women go off to a foreign field to lay their lives on the line for some faceless spineless bureaucrat This time, should it happen god forbid, then at least the people of Scotland will have a chance to stand up to these faceless bureaucrats.
 
Jeez, the Big debate has just started and Rennie is already scaremongering over the E.U. and England setting up border posts because Scotland would have to apply to join the E.U. Somebody just shoot him will they!

Don’t think it will affect the referendum, but here’s a thought.  I read recently, I think it was in the Observer, that if Romney doesn’t get elected it’s because there aren’t enough angry white folks left in America.  If that’s true, and we apply the principle that we are generally 10 to 20 years behind the USA does that mean that within 20 years there won’t be enough angry white folks left in England to elect a tory government?

@Arb
 
 I know, but every time I see Sarwar’s coupon on TV it enrages me.  He is a smug, slimy git.  By the way, Tom Devine, a Labour man, is getting absolutely tore into Sarwar and Rennie. Devine is stealing the show.

Yep I agree Muttley.
 
To be fair, ah hell fairness be damned 😀 I think overall Angela Constance, Tom Devine and Patrick Harvie are sweeping the floor with Rennie and Sarwar.

Arb
 
I have not been that impressed by Constance.  Devine then Harvie have been the best imo.  Rennie and Sarwar, need I see more…

If the state-level polling is to be believed, Obama should win easily. Not that it matters. I’m more interested in the Catalan election myself.
Polling for the Catalan election suggests Artur Mas’s CiU may gain a seat or two over the 62 they have, but they’ll likely have to govern in coalition. Apparently the most popular coalition is CiU-PSC which polling indicates would have a comfortable majority with 80+ seats in the 135 seat Catalan parliament. Although the PSC (the Catalan arm of the PSOE) are not in favour of independence, they do support a referendum which the PSOE do not. And even if the PSC were to wobble on the question, the pro-independence socialists of the ERC could be relied upon to vote for a referendum. That would provide a solid pro-referendum majority in the Catalan parliament unless the CiU did a reverse ferret.

@Bill C
 
Was it your letter that was in the Herald or the Scotsman today?  Tom Devine was very good, do you think he supports independence?  I know he is a Labour man.

I agree Bill I think Tom Devine was the overall best performer in the debate. Patrick Harvie did quite well as well. I know Muttley and I have a wee bit of difference of opinion over Angela Constance’s performance. 😀
 
Rennie was dreadful, as per usual. 😀
 
Sarwar, as usual was in a different universe, ignoring the question and just attacking the S.N.P.
 
Personally Bill I don’t think the anti Independence camp has EVER had any momentum to start with.
 
I may have been watching the debate through rose tinted specs but I did get the impression that the majority of the audience were in favour of Scottish Independence.
 
I’ve just been alerted to this over on Scottish Independence 2014 site. Interesting wee snippet about what the Scottish and Spanish anti Independence camps are getting up to. I’d like to know what the Electoral Commission thinks about the Spanish anti Independence groups getting involved in the Scottish referendum as well as the Spanish electoral commissions view on the Scottish anti Independence groups getting involved in the Spanish one.
 
Another wee thought. How would the E.U. commission view the inter action of the anti Independence parties of Scotland and Spain getting involved in each others referendums?
 
link to newsnetscotland.com

Hi Arbroath, just had a look at the headline over on NNS and thought “This is huge”. What price democracy? If this is true, we are talking about a conspiracy to influence the possible outcome of a democratically held referendum of citizens of the EU.

That’s exactly the line of thought I was thinking Bill.
 
I am no politician or lawyer but to me this sort of behaviour stinks of subterfuge on a grand scale. I can not believe that neither the relevant electoral commissions nor the E.U. would not have some extremely serious words to say about this sort of interference.
 
Just as an aside does anyone know if anything ever happened about the No camp and their illegal collection of names etc. I remember reading somewhere a few weeks ago that the NO camp had been found to have broken the law by collecting and storing people’s information and storing it on their data base BEFORE they had even applied for a data protection licence. In fact the article I read even had a comment from someone at the D.P.O. that stated in effect that the NO camp HAD broken the law. I have not read anything since, I suspect that this might be getting swept under the carpet.

The whole establishment in London/Westminster/BBC is sick to the core.
 
No doubt you will have seen these Muttley, but if not here are just three links relating to Westminster/BBC sexual abuse.
 
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
 
/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20188068
 
link to whatsontv.co.uk
 
This is just sickening.  What is really sickening is the fact that the BBC spent a horrendous amount of time covering the Huntley trial whilst at the same time the self same crimes were being carried out right at the heart of the BBC and Westminster.

@Bill C
 
If it is true about a certain Lord, other influential Tories and other public figures, then they deserve everything that is coming their way.  Tom Watson may use parliamentary privilege  to name them this week supposedly.  Watson says he has been warned his life could be in danger if he continues.  Up till now reporting of despicable, evil crimes have only been reported about the Brady’s, Hyndley’s, Tobin’s and Huntley’s of this world.  The establishment have escaped coverage and it is high time this was ended.  The victims deserve support, and to see justice served fully on these pyschopaths and evil bastards.

@redcliffe62
 
Like I said a lot of stuff on the internet is dodgy and shit.  We will just have to wait and see how it develops.  There already has been a long-running inquiry into the North Wales case but it seems to have been useless for the victims.  Hopefully with the media coverage the issue is getting there will be criminal charges brought against anyone involved in this. 

Mmm, I’ve a feeling that by the end of the year, we’ll see the first straight opinion poll this year with a majority in favour of Independence. If that happens, we can expect to see at least Scottish Media falling over itself to try to report impartially.

There again, it might just be time to go to bed!

The idea of being part of Britain and therefore supposedly having more influence on World affairs is delusional, of course, as most of the commentators on this site would agree.

However, it strikes me that the anti-independence Washington Post article rather supplied us with amunition when they talked about one of their objections to independence being the DISPROPORTIONATE influence smaller states can have.

If Scotland would have disproportionate influence as a “statelet” surely that is a GOOD thing from the “statelet”/Scotland point of view?     

Looks like dysentery to me 😀

I’m sure Tom Devine will support independence. My reason being he is a Scottish historian, having looked into the history of the country he surely can’t come to any conclusion other than support independence. It worked for arch unionist Michael Fry. The empire is over, the Protestant sucession is of strictly minority interest, we aren’t at war with France – the union no longer has any clear purpose.

Obama first line of speech: “Tonight, more than 200 years after a former colony won the right to determine its own destiny, the task of perfecting our Union moves forward.”

Bearing in mind the Washington Post article, and comparisons then by some to the USA’s “self-determination”, is there anything to be read into this?

Yes, the thought of Mitt with his mitts on that trigger was scary 😮