Will the outcome of the US presidential election affect the referendum campaign?
Posted on
November 05, 2012 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
No. No it won’t.
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07 11 12 02:20
Will the outcome of the US presidential election affect the referendum campaign? | Betteridge’s Law
Ignored
FS! I thought that was Obama trying to give Gordon Broon a big kick in the baws.
I haven’t really paid much attention to the US election.
What if it affects the UK?
And then in turn affects the referendum?
Surely it’s the other way around? The Washington Post was only saying only the other day that Scottish independence would invariably lead to the end of the world as we know it.
As in-depth an analysis as the subject requires, Rev.
Do either of the candidates even know where Scotland is?
MajorBloodnok
Surely it’s the other way around? The Washington Post was only saying only the other day that Scottish independence would invariably lead to the end of the world as we know it.
I had no idea that such a small and insignificant country as Scotland wielded so much power on the world stage. Truly stirring stuff.
Sorry to be upsetting your apple cart so early Stu. As you know I absolutely hate going O/T. 😆
As you are such a great fan of Craig Levin 😀 I thought you’d be interested in this from the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20205303
Not sure it matters who wins, both candidates will do what the CIA tells them and therin lies the real concern. The Washington Post story was only saying what the CIA think. Anyone who was active in nationalist circles in the latter part of last century, will remember only too well the interest taken in the independence movement by security forces both domestic and foreign. The black ops brigade have still to get their act in gear. Scotland will not become independent without a struggle.
They won’t just do what the C.I.A. tell them to do Bill but also what J.P.Morgan and the other financial “wizards” in Wall Street also tell them to do.
Sadly, in spite of all the hyperbole and billions of dollars involved in buying votes, it doesn’t really matter who wins tomorrow. The outcome of tomorrow’s election won’t make much difference to those Americans who do want real change, so whoever wins it won’t make much difference to America in 2014, never mind Scotland. Craig Levein’s departure might have a discernible impact on the independence referendum, though.
Forgot to add: nice attempt to turn the tables on the self-referential Americans.
Great picture! My favourite take on the election is
From what I see it will make a big difference yes, and we’d be better with Obama. His foreign policy needs to mature, but Romney will start WWIII.
Levein gone according to Sky sports.
About time if true.
EDIT: I see Sky were beaten to it.
Will the outcome of the US presidential election affect the referendum campaign?
It depends if the referendum campaign is fought out against the backdrop of an Iranian war and massive oil price hikes.
I’d say that is more probable with Romney but it’s not off the table under Obama too.
We did get a very nice St. Andrew’s day message from Hillary. Must have annoyed No. 10 somewhat; almost like she was getting in early.
I see there is a programme on Channel 4 at 20:00. It is a Despatches programme apparently look at an Israeli “war game” with a view to looking at the possibility of an Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Might be worth a wee watch.
Problem is there’s not a beeb reporter available in this country to record johan’s latest ‘A’hm for the one that’s agin Alec ‘n thae SNP’
i would prefer a visit to edinburo, scotchland, from Obama, after we become independent. whilst here, obama could drop in and meet some distant relatives, in ireland, scotchland.
OT:
https://twitter.com/jakimccarthy/status/265542262577053696
sarwar, rennie, Constance & harvie on debate tonight.
I wonder what the Beeb have against having NON politicians on their Big debates.
What are they frightened of?
@Arbroath 1320
They obviously don’t feel comfortable with people who aren’t either fiddling their expenses or fiddling with kiddies, or both.
Apologies for the poor taste, I’m in “what would Frankie Boyle say?” mode.
The Beeb’s mindset is keep it in the establishment family
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i5SDeqI5yJ8/TnkqSPlh-uI/AAAAAAAAA5g/b9iaA2_Oz_o/s320/circle%2Bsquare.bmp
Watched the Westminster Select Committee or whatever they call it on the highly edited Parliament channel. Subject: The Referendum. Who the fuck is Ian Davidson? Any info on this clown?
Us elections? Same crew. Same invasion and human misery policies. As for Iran? They may just get their arse’s kicked…
Aye your right Major. It’s the fear of the truth slipping out and them not being able to control the outcome that drives them mad.
Their lack of control over what others say, and is accepted by the audience, is the MASSIVE elephant in their house. They know that once the YES camp start getting the truth out there into the real world their chance of winning even the simplest of arguments, tea or coffee, is sunk without trace.
@DougtheDug,
“I’d say that’s more probable with Romney but it’s not off the table with Obama too”.
Agreed. Foreign policy is one of Obama’s weakest links but, fortunately for Obama, it’s one of Romney’s many weaknesses as well. The Iran situation should come to a head before the autumn of 2014. But whoever wins, the increasing number of drone attacks on Afghanistan and Pakistan that have occurred under Obama, will continue as the Americans attempt to de-politicise the conflict in their domestic politics in preparation for their withdrawal.
It looks like it will be Gary Robertson who is chairing the Big Debate tonight. I think I saw somewhere earlier on that it was to be Isobel Frazer. I guess the high heid yins didn’t think she was unionist enough for the debate tonight.
cynicalHighlander,
That does with your head!
@douglas clark,
How did you resist the temptation to swear? I didn’t when I first saw it.
CH may have uncovered the new BBC logo. In fact, if you look carefully, you can see the words ‘Now now, guys an’ gals, ow’s about that then’ hidden in there.
I’m an American. So let me respond to Arborath 1320’s question about whether either of the candidates actually know where Scotland is. Come on, now. Our last Vice-Presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, put that geographical canard to rest when she answered queries about the “country of Africa.” We’re on top of things over here, rest assured.
Re the photograph, shame that it’s the ‘security’ guy that gives the game away here, especially those shoes.
“Will the outcome of the US election affect the referendum campaign?”
Mehbes aye, mehbes naw. If Romney wins, the chances of Iran being attacked are probably higher. If that were to happen and the UK got involved, it would give the MSM just the ammunition (sorry!) that they needed to go into super-patriotic, ‘we’re all Brits in time of war’, etc., blah, blah, verbal shite mode. Whether that would have any bearing on the referendum outcome is debatable, but it would certainly give pause to some ‘undecideds’.
Even if Obama wins it doesn’t mean it won’t happen, especially as an Israel with Netanyahu in charge is itching to go and a CIA-assisted American war machine is never shy in flexing its ‘military muscle’. Again, if it is to happen, the warmongers are unlikely to wait until 2014. Let’s hope the lunacy can be curtailed before it even starts. One can only hope.
Dai I think if the MSM EVER tried to run with their “all Brits” garbage then I think that that would actually work against the union myself.
Up till now we have never had a say about whether our young men and women go off to a foreign field to lay their lives on the line for some faceless spineless bureaucrat This time, should it happen god forbid, then at least the people of Scotland will have a chance to stand up to these faceless bureaucrats.
Jeez, the Big debate has just started and Rennie is already scaremongering over the E.U. and England setting up border posts because Scotland would have to apply to join the E.U. Somebody just shoot him will they!
Sarwar is appalling, worse than Rennie in my opinion (and that is saying something).
Don’t think it will affect the referendum, but here’s a thought. I read recently, I think it was in the Observer, that if Romney doesn’t get elected it’s because there aren’t enough angry white folks left in America. If that’s true, and we apply the principle that we are generally 10 to 20 years behind the USA does that mean that within 20 years there won’t be enough angry white folks left in England to elect a tory government?
When is Sarwar NOT appalling Muttley?
According to Rennie we’ve only paid MORE in tax to Westminster than received TWICE in the last years.
Oh dear Sarwar has just denied that Lamont said that we could not afford current benefits. Deaie Dearie me Sarwar can’t even answer a direct question from Harvie.
@Arb
I know, but every time I see Sarwar’s coupon on TV it enrages me. He is a smug, slimy git. By the way, Tom Devine, a Labour man, is getting absolutely tore into Sarwar and Rennie. Devine is stealing the show.
@Arbroath 1320
Aye, right enough. It’s just the thought of a Romney/Netanyahu pact … The horror! …doesn’t exactly bode well for ‘peace in our time’ …
And yes, the usual suspects coming out with the usual pish on the “Big Debate”… scaremongering, disinforming, lying and FUDing away for the Union for all they’re worth …Charlatans all … How very predictable!
Yep I agree Muttley.
To be fair, ah hell fairness be damned 😀 I think overall Angela Constance, Tom Devine and Patrick Harvie are sweeping the floor with Rennie and Sarwar.
When is a question not a question?
When it is asked to Sarwar who ignores the question completely and comes out with his pre prepared attack on the S.N.P.
What a moron!
Arb
I have not been that impressed by Constance. Devine then Harvie have been the best imo. Rennie and Sarwar, need I see more…
I think part of the problem is that every seems to be S.N.P. related when its put to Angela whereas everyone else it’s U.K./Scotland related. Jeez Sarawar just gone off one one again! ARGH!!!!!!
If the state-level polling is to be believed, Obama should win easily. Not that it matters. I’m more interested in the Catalan election myself.
Polling for the Catalan election suggests Artur Mas’s CiU may gain a seat or two over the 62 they have, but they’ll likely have to govern in coalition. Apparently the most popular coalition is CiU-PSC which polling indicates would have a comfortable majority with 80+ seats in the 135 seat Catalan parliament. Although the PSC (the Catalan arm of the PSOE) are not in favour of independence, they do support a referendum which the PSOE do not. And even if the PSC were to wobble on the question, the pro-independence socialists of the ERC could be relied upon to vote for a referendum. That would provide a solid pro-referendum majority in the Catalan parliament unless the CiU did a reverse ferret.
Just watched the Big Debate, thought that Tom Devine was very good and presented a neutral case for independence. It seems to me that the unionist argument is slowly losing momentum. The big unionist scare stories are slowly being diluted and being replaced by rational positivity. Overall a good night for the YES campaign and possibly a wee turning point in the debate.
@Bill C
Was it your letter that was in the Herald or the Scotsman today? Tom Devine was very good, do you think he supports independence? I know he is a Labour man.
Devine is very smoooth. Too smooth… He’s a Brit-Nat through and through… Very clever… Leaving the twist to the end…
I agree Bill I think Tom Devine was the overall best performer in the debate. Patrick Harvie did quite well as well. I know Muttley and I have a wee bit of difference of opinion over Angela Constance’s performance. 😀
Rennie was dreadful, as per usual. 😀
Sarwar, as usual was in a different universe, ignoring the question and just attacking the S.N.P.
Personally Bill I don’t think the anti Independence camp has EVER had any momentum to start with.
I may have been watching the debate through rose tinted specs but I did get the impression that the majority of the audience were in favour of Scottish Independence.
I’ve just been alerted to this over on Scottish Independence 2014 site. Interesting wee snippet about what the Scottish and Spanish anti Independence camps are getting up to. I’d like to know what the Electoral Commission thinks about the Spanish anti Independence groups getting involved in the Scottish referendum as well as the Spanish electoral commissions view on the Scottish anti Independence groups getting involved in the Spanish one.
Another wee thought. How would the E.U. commission view the inter action of the anti Independence parties of Scotland and Spain getting involved in each others referendums?
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/6188-anti-independence-parties-plot-to-expel-independent-scotland-from-the-eu
Hi Mutley, I had a letter in the Sunday Herald on Sunday last. Unfortunately it was heavily edited. I bow to your superior knowledge on whether Devine is/was Labour. If he is/was a Labour supporter, I suspect he is beginning to see the light of independence! Much like Allan Grogan and possibly Henry McLeish. With Lamont and Sarwar in charge of Labour in Scotland I don’t suppose there is anywhere else to go other than independence. I just think some folk are begining to see the light at the end of a very long unionist tunnel.
Hi Arbroath, just had a look at the headline over on NNS and thought “This is huge”. What price democracy? If this is true, we are talking about a conspiracy to influence the possible outcome of a democratically held referendum of citizens of the EU.
@alan
What do you mean by a Brit-Nat through and through? What was the twist at the end?
O/t, Over the last few days I have been reading both newspaper articles and internet articles (I know there is a lot of shit in the internet), and I have to say that my already very, very low opinion of the Conservative governments from 1979-1997 has actually plummeted to depths I did not realise were even there. The things I have been reading about, I can only describe as being extremely chilling and appalling. This goes way beyond disliking politicians views. If what I have been reading is true, or at least partly true, then there is going to be massive repercussions from it. The stories are essentially about psychopaths, deviants, extreme violence, malevolence, and massive abuses of power etc. This has to be brought out into the public domain. If certain stories are true, and I am not in a position to know, then we have had people very close to the PM, carrying out crimes on a par with Ian Huntley. I am appalled that some of the most vulnerable children and young adults in the UK have not been protected, have not been listened to, and action not been taken against some very powerful people. I know this is a very difficult subject but I needed to express how I felt about the topic.
That’s exactly the line of thought I was thinking Bill.
I am no politician or lawyer but to me this sort of behaviour stinks of subterfuge on a grand scale. I can not believe that neither the relevant electoral commissions nor the E.U. would not have some extremely serious words to say about this sort of interference.
Just as an aside does anyone know if anything ever happened about the No camp and their illegal collection of names etc. I remember reading somewhere a few weeks ago that the NO camp had been found to have broken the law by collecting and storing people’s information and storing it on their data base BEFORE they had even applied for a data protection licence. In fact the article I read even had a comment from someone at the D.P.O. that stated in effect that the NO camp HAD broken the law. I have not read anything since, I suspect that this might be getting swept under the carpet.
Mutley, it would appear there is a whole load of shit just about to hit the fan. The Brit establishment is about to be consumed in a cesspool of filth and it couldn’t happen to a better bunch of degenerates.
The whole establishment in London/Westminster/BBC is sick to the core.
No doubt you will have seen these Muttley, but if not here are just three links relating to Westminster/BBC sexual abuse.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/02/newsnight-senior-political-figure-paedophile_n_2064582.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20188068
http://www.whatsontv.co.uk/drama/tv-news/news/leonard-rossiter-named-in-bbc-sex-abuse-claim/18117
This is just sickening. What is really sickening is the fact that the BBC spent a horrendous amount of time covering the Huntley trial whilst at the same time the self same crimes were being carried out right at the heart of the BBC and Westminster.
@Arbroath 1320
Yep story about the illegal data collected was on this story http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/5912-darling-urged-to-say-whether-illegally-harvested-data-will-be-destroyed
@Bill C
If it is true about a certain Lord, other influential Tories and other public figures, then they deserve everything that is coming their way. Tom Watson may use parliamentary privilege to name them this week supposedly. Watson says he has been warned his life could be in danger if he continues. Up till now reporting of despicable, evil crimes have only been reported about the Brady’s, Hyndley’s, Tobin’s and Huntley’s of this world. The establishment have escaped coverage and it is high time this was ended. The victims deserve support, and to see justice served fully on these pyschopaths and evil bastards.
Read simianpress.com and then tell me what you think. It cannot all be wrong. The usual cover up will be hard after Savile.
@redcliffe62
Like I said a lot of stuff on the internet is dodgy and shit. We will just have to wait and see how it develops. There already has been a long-running inquiry into the North Wales case but it seems to have been useless for the victims. Hopefully with the media coverage the issue is getting there will be criminal charges brought against anyone involved in this.
Just been watching a bit of this Big Debate. This is grossly out of order. Totally Biased in favour of the Unionists.
The Yes Campaign are going to need a UN representative to oversee this part of the Edinburgh agreement. “The governments are agreed that the referendum should meet the highest standards of fairness, transparency and propriety, informed by consultation and independent expert advice.”
Lets call for the Independent expert arbitrator NOW.
Mmm, I’ve a feeling that by the end of the year, we’ll see the first straight opinion poll this year with a majority in favour of Independence. If that happens, we can expect to see at least Scottish Media falling over itself to try to report impartially.
There again, it might just be time to go to bed!
Not a bad debate on telly last night dads. Harvie and Devine did well and Constance held her own. Mr Rennie and Sarwar didn’t have much of a leg to stand on regardless of their usual Beeb help. More civilised than the last couple in that at least full answers were allowed. I’d say that it was a reasonable win for the YES argument on the night.
I think you may be a bit quick on the polling results though, I’d probably look to early 2013 before seeing independence creeping ahead of the status quo. I’m looking at spending over Christmas and a sudden realisation amongst the electorate that this year they couldn’t afford as much. Middle income families especially should really start to feel the pinch and start to think a bit more. For low and non existent income families its going to hurt worse than ever. I’d settle for taking points off the no camp’s lead by close of Christmas period. If timing is anything, we should start to see real progress through 2013.
By the by any further expansion on your rumour?
The idea of being part of Britain and therefore supposedly having more influence on World affairs is delusional, of course, as most of the commentators on this site would agree.
However, it strikes me that the anti-independence Washington Post article rather supplied us with amunition when they talked about one of their objections to independence being the DISPROPORTIONATE influence smaller states can have.
If Scotland would have disproportionate influence as a “statelet” surely that is a GOOD thing from the “statelet”/Scotland point of view?
Looking at the spray behind Obama, that’s some fart he’s just let rip! 🙂
Looks like dysentery to me 😀
Headline.
Tied election decided by fart-off. 🙂
I’m sure Tom Devine will support independence. My reason being he is a Scottish historian, having looked into the history of the country he surely can’t come to any conclusion other than support independence. It worked for arch unionist Michael Fry. The empire is over, the Protestant sucession is of strictly minority interest, we aren’t at war with France – the union no longer has any clear purpose.
ffs… The opinion polls are rigged! Wake up! And Divine is masquerading…
Yay!
Obama first line of speech: “Tonight, more than 200 years after a former colony won the right to determine its own destiny, the task of perfecting our Union moves forward.”
Bearing in mind the Washington Post article, and comparisons then by some to the USA’s “self-determination”, is there anything to be read into this?
Hopefully that’s one nuclear standoff averted dads. 🙂
Yes, the thought of Mitt with his mitts on that trigger was scary 😮