We are not alone
Supporters of independence are often accused of a certain degree of paranoia when it comes to their lack of trust in the Scottish and UK media.
The above chart is from the latest European Quality Of Life Survey, conducted by an EU agency with the unwieldy but self-explanatory name of The European Foundation for the Improvement of Living and Working Conditions, (Eurofound for short).
It’s a wide-ranging study with a variety of very interesting findings, but one of the most striking is the almost unique and near-pathological lack of trust in the media held by the UK public. With the exception of Greece, every other nation on the continent has considerably more faith in its press.
It’s not just a cynical British nature – trust in the Parliament and the legal system(s) here are much healthier in comparison to other European nations, but the people of Britain don’t trust their media as far as they could throw it. (Perhaps astonishingly, UK citizens trust politicians significantly MORE than they trust newspapers.)
It’s not just us, readers.
A few weeks ago I was in Buchannan Street in Glasgow and there was a pro-Palestine/Gaza demo. One person had a banner with Pudsey with a Palestian flag over one eye and below Pudsey it said “Silenced by the BBC”.
So it is not just us who are paranoid. The 50,000 people who marched through London and passed the BBC on an anti-Austerity demo were most unhappy that the BBC didn’t mention it.
It is quite clear to anyone who is prepared to look at things with an open mind that the media in general is biased.
And the more ‘impartial and balanced’ the BBC claims itself to be the more it is mistrusted.
They’ve been god awful for years in this country. It take guy’s like Stu to show them how to do their job properly. Keep it up bud.
Well its always nice to hear. The UK media has no backbone and is a voice for the government. At times you feel you’re living in N Korea the way the government can do no wrong in the medias eyes.
How can anyone seriously trust and organisation that where the status of the window blinds HAS to be centrally managed?
… sorry ‘an’ not ‘and’ = bloody typo’s!!!
Should read: How can anyone seriously trust an organisation where the status of the window blinds HAS to be centrally managed?
…dyslexic fingers!!!
What a shame there is no breakdown of the UK figures.
I doubt we would count anywhere near 3.2, whereas in those areas where.. Or, to quote Mozza
“Why pamper life’s complexities
when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat?”
An unfortunate consequence of this (justified) mistrust is that it allows nonsense such as yours to thrive.
When our ambition for independence is achieved with what I believe will be a significant majority in September, I am so looking forward to watching the MSM squirm. By god we should make them suffer. Not by gloating (well not much) but by forcing them to acknowledge their lies, their burying of the truth, their deceitfulness and their downright arrogance.
When Cameron walks the 2015 Election and rUK continues down the path towards Euro isolation, societal inequality, the rape of the NHS and all the stuff we reject here in Scotland, they will be forced to look on in envy as we build our new Scotland with our oil revenues used not to line the pockets of a few but for the benefit of all. By god the Westminster establishment are going to be rocked to its foundation when they realise they no longer have Scottish oil to prop up its selfish greed. We have argued at length about the economic benefits of oil revenue to Scotland. The rUK economy will look an awful lot more fragile without us. What goes around comes around and I say “hell mend them”.
The Game of Trolls, again.
@CharlieMurphy
An unfortunate consequence of the trust in Wings is that it allows rubbish like our MSM to unthrive faster than it would otherwise
The EBC is a spy and propaganda centre for the British ruling class. Always has been and always will be – till we change it.
I notice James Curran’s excellent book on the media is now onto the 6th edition. Title? Power Without Responsibility. Funnily enough the current edition has a chapter entitled The Fall of the BBC. The Amazon blurb also notes there is a bit about ‘the recuperation of the BBC’. Recuperation? Way too late, methinks.
Do our older citizens recall a time when they trusted the media? Or is this a modern development?
Pedantman strikes again!
THRIVE:
antonyms: decline, wither, moribund…
8=)
Hey handclapping,
In the mish mash of loads of thread, there was one, on which I commented without intellectual or formal foundation.
If Scotland, takes a currency position as follows
A) formal CU
B) informal £ Scots shadowing the above
C) A N Other currency on free float
What would be the potential effects on Balance of Payments, GDP and Exports, depending on the variations above.
I was too tired and emotional last night to see if you had responded to my plea for a human coonter.
This morning I had much the same feelin as last night.
B t P
or directly at
innerbearsden@gmail.com
So far, so good.
Its not just lack of trust in British media, its daily displays of malice towards anything positive about Scotland. For example, you have to see the Press and Journal monstering the Commonwealth Games, unfreakinbelievable. Usually its Holyrood that gets it but the Games are the worst ever as far, as the P&J’s concerned.
Oh Paula, such as it always has been. Miners strike would be a fine example of press ‘manipulation’ but it goes way, way back. Although I did think the Hon Man was fairly well balanced…
I would suggest that the high profile phone hacking court cases and the Levinson inquiry might be the chief driver for this, rather the rather niche world of Scottish politics.
Quentin Quale says:
28 July, 2014 at 6:59 pm
Power Without Responsibility.
Power has to be controlled…
link to youtube.com
Quentin Quale says:
28 July, 2014 at 7:02 pm
Although I did think the Hon Man was fairly well balanced…
Francis Gaye must join the ranks of the balanced, don’t you think?
CharlieMurphy – suspect you are a Troll, but I will indulge you once.
The difference between the MSM and this site is that the facts presented on this site are almost always referenced. There is then interpretation of those facts based on logic. The approach of the MSM (and Better Together No Thanks) is that they have a position and they then look around for anything that they think supports that position. So eager are they to consume the crumbs of comfort that they find that they seldom bother to check the facts. They are often then embarrassed – think Juncker’s comments on membership of the EU and the Scottish Government startup costs to name just two. So, in my opinion, what MSM and BTNT present is nonsense, but what appears on this site is factual, logical and reasonable.
Oh, and we don’t do unsubstantiated assertions either.
O/T Linekar has just informed me that we have the best of both worlds…
Briandoonthetoon. Francis Gaye. LOL. and wee smiley thing.
What we have to remember is that all print media is run by just a few , lets call them , questionable characters , with their own agenda , and cosy relations with the rich and powerful. To ask them for serious investigation , is like asking turkeys to vote for christmas.
You could start a website entitled “what the bbc leaves out”.
Did anyone else hear the talk from the editor of The Sunday Herald at the Commonweal Fest where he tried to persuade us all that there was no bias in the press? Apparently the views of Darling, Cameron et al only get more coverage because they are considered to be the in the first tier of UK politics where as MSP’s and other peoples views are secondary. I don’t think his argument convinced many.
@6:53 fortunate – Doh
@Paula Rose : WW2 and up to Suez, we so desperately wanted it to be true. Suez was where the scales started to fall from our eyes.
On topic : I don’t think its the journalists, its the management. Has the BBC come to terms with Saville, Harris etc so that they can report unreservedly on the Westminster paedos? Has the BBC managed their reporting of the referendum such that they don’t have demos outside PQ? The common thread in both these cases is McQuarrie not seeing that an extra effort was required to pull the BBC up rather than do nothing and let it slide.
Contrast with News International, you may hate Rupe but as a journalist he listens to what his readers want rather than give them shit according to some historic party line
The fact that WoS raised over a hundred thousand pounds in a couple of days shows exactly how people interested in Scottish politics view the prejudiced muck being continually shovelled upon them by the unionist MSM.
Scottish Independence gatherings, Saltires at T in the Park, Protests against austerity, Protests against Israel’s bombing of Gaza, Protests against Monsanto, Protests against cuts to disability benefit. Tens of thousands turn out to these events with many more supporters who are unable to attend, they are either ignored or buried so deep behind other news on the BBC website you’d have difficulty finding it even if you knew what you were looking for. In the meantime they distract the public with Prince George’s baby pics, nonsense about UKIP and ad nauseum coverage of the World Cup. The BBC should not be allowed to call this news, it’s more like OK or The Chat – for entertainment purposes only.
As far as politicians , they lie , they lie constantly , subsequently , you know where you stand. The recent cases of the , ahem , missing files should have been seized on Big Time by the media , instead , we watch another whitewash unfolding.
I’ll try not to post this again, but I wonder where the British public gets the misapprehension that we live in a meritocracy?
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
I’m with Defo here. It is a real pity that they do not break down the U.K. figure into the *ahem* regional figures. I think that 3.2 is an unusually HIGH figure for Scotland. Let’s face it with almost every single union supporting newspaper suffering mega falls in their monthly sales figures there can be no way that Scotland would even come close to the U.K. figure. Still as others have said come the 19th September the rest of the British Isles will suddenly waken up to the reality that a part of these islands have woken up and smelt the coffee.
Have no fear residents of the remainder of the British Isles, waking up and smelling the coffee is neither difficult to do nor is it hard to accomplish, all it needs is a little FAITH!
The BBC in particular has just become Pravda for the chattering classes.
Just had a better together libdem canvasser at the door who I was a bit upset with.
Trying to infer to my sixteen year old daughter that we didn’t have enough information to make a choice on the referendum, that the problem with yes is that when you vote yes you can’t go back and asking if you can you name a truly independent country?
Bearing in mind that we have Yes stickers in the window I find this to say the least insulting. Told him to not come to my door and tell lies at my front door.
Nice one Rev!
I like the juxtaposition of this and the previous Alan Cochrane interview.
Sums it up perfectly.
Cochrane is a classic example of the lack of trust we have in journalists.
A complete buffoon who will be redundant after the 18th. Do you think the ToryGraph will have any interest in an independent Scotland – not likely.
Sorry O/T
Diving in..
You probably know already but Nicola Sturgeon from Mother well – superb NOW
tinyurl.com/okzstro
I remember listening to the BBC Light Programme ”Family Favourites” one sunny Sunday afternoon, listening to requests from British servicemen from all over the world.
I heard ‘Cod Liver Oil and the Orange Juice’ sung in an accent I recognized and thought it great.
Then I believe it got banned because London luvvies thought there *could* be swearing in it, but they couldn’t be sure…
Gary old chap, it isn’t even entertaining, unless your faculties have atrophied beyond the point of no return.
Paula Rose 6.59 Well before our time but in 1902 The Times dismissed reports of the high death rate of women and children in British Boer War concentration camps. Emphasis was placed not on the British commanders but on the inadequacies of Boer mothers.
The great balanced ‘British Press’.
Interesting if you burrow into the UK data.
Those which trust the press most are Male, >65 & Middle Income
Those who distrust most are Female, Age 50-65 + 18-24, Highish Income.
I might have assumed those with least trust would be Yes, most Trust No. However genders are inverted, females tending to be No. Old people trusting and being No, makes sense. Perhaps income and trust makes Yes/No sense is you assume higher incomes imply more politically aware, although hard to say.
Conclusion? Not a clear picture!
I expect bias and distortion from the print media – but I used to trust the BBC, and many across the world still do. Is their fall from grace a modern phenomenon?
If the BBC and MSM were NOT as biased and one sided as we all claim then they will all be headlining this incident at the Commonwealth Games and calling for this sort of disgusting action to be stopped with immediate effect!
link to tinyurl.com
Conan, away and oil yer cod.
Nigtol.
B t P
@Lesley-Anne
Jeez that’s just disgusting. I hope this is spread on twitter and facebook.
I’m 77 and can’t remember an unbiased media since I grew out of the Dandy; Beano, Hotspur, Rover, Adventure, Wizard, Boys Own, Oor Wullie and the Broons. The Herald used to be more than fair under Arnold Kemp, but common decency seemed to have passed on with him and reverted to outright, insulting childish fiction.
Reading the orchestrated online loyalist, semi literate comments on the Hootsmon I could have sworn I was reading the “Scottish Prodistent View”, or the anti Scottish “Chuckie ar La”, or walked into an Old Firm chat anti, Blue Brigade, Green Order Scottish chat line.
If I want to read any informed facts on “Great” Britain I would have to read the overseas media. I know the GB media are lying about Scotland. Therefore I can not trust them speaking Nation unto Nation facades. We need the new social media to democratise the media barons political cartels.
Doing my bit Nana.
This is not the first example either. The other day I read about folks being warned by the POLICE that if they raised their YES Saltire again they would have been evicted from the stadium! Now I don’t know about anyone else but as far as I’m concerned no one raising that flag had broken any Scots law!
@Lesley-Anne
My son told me about the police warning folks about their Yes saltires. All this makes me soooo bloody mad……
The media lies to us every day.
But it is the BBC that is by far the worst of the bunch because it takes full advantage of the its colossal multi-billion pound budget coerced from people by using the threat of criminal prosecution while fiercely protecting its almost complete lack of accountability.
The newspapers lie just as much, maybe more & the English titles in particular have been proven to use criminal means to extract information through hacking, bribery & corruption. But at least we have complete freedom to avoid them as we wish.
Thanks to the internet though, we can now reveal & highlight their lies, propaganda & deceit with the speed of a virulent contagion.
So it comes as no surprise that the British media is one of the least trusted sources of data, information & news. It is surely quite shocking that even the self serving, money grubbing, expense cheats in Westminster are considered more trustworthy than our newspapers.
You would think that the miserable but well compensated clowns like Gardham at “The Herald” would figure this out for themselves & turn around their shite titles by actually printing some truth for once. It’s hardly rocket science, is it?
GOLD! Libby Clegg in the 100m T11. Brilliant run. Plenty of saltires on BBC1 right now
Forgive me for stating the obvious but the union flag represents the union, thus anyone flying or showing the union flag at these games is projecting support for a No vote. So why were some members of England’s cycling team allowed to show the union flag on top of their helmets?
Minty… Just wait until ‘Flower of Scotland’ in a Hampden packed to the rafters.
Brilliant work Libby and Mikail.
O/T , but not too much – You’re not alone! – Fantastic support from Galicia –
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Now they come to fight us.
Nana Smith says:
@Lesley-Anne
My son told me about the police warning folks about their Yes saltires. All this makes me soooo bloody mad……
You and me both Nana!
Funnily enough Dan I have e-mailed the Commonwealth Games committee about exactly the points you raise, especially the UJ on the helmets of the cyclists, utterly disgusting what is wrong couldn’t they afford the St George’s cross?
Can I just say what a fantastic day it was yesterday at the PQ3 protest at BBC Scotland.
What a pleasure it was meeting all those other fellow Wingers. We raised over £400 for foodbanks, Ronnie will have a final total.
The interest shown at the Wings table was unbelievable, it was non-stop. We were giving out leaflets, Wings badges, a lot of YES material. The punters kept throwing money into the kitty. A big thanks to all of them. Their money will go to a good cause.
Here is a few pics from PQ3 yesterday,
link to tinypic.com
And this pic, taken at the end, captures the enthusiasm that the Wings gang has for the final push for Independence.
link to oi60.tinypic.com
Paula Rose 6.59
“Do our older citizens recall a time when they trusted the media? Or is this a modern development?”
I certainly could be described as “older” Paula but unfortunately I have never been a “citizen”. In legal terms I am a subject of the Crown and also a vassal of my feu superior. Who knows, when sufficient people vote YES on Sep 18th my status may change and I may have full citizenship in my own country.
In answer to your question though…I have never trusted the media and also there is a direct correlation between distrust and ageing.
@john king
So you’ve got an attack of the midges too
Stewart, I have not had time to read all the comments, so do not know if anyone has suggested this yet, but why don’t you send that to ” Cockers”, no, in fact take it to him and his partner, and rub their noses in it!
Nicola in Motherwell.
new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3175677 …
“So you’ve got an attack of the midges too”
I see a false flag attack coming soon Handclapping
the flag event is only the precursor to the real assault,
this country is under attack , people just dont know it yet!
Nicola was superb in Motherwell tonight had to put up with a couple of nutters and handled them no probs. A big heads up to Kevin and the guys of Independence Live who are performing a great task for all of us well done.
Im getting a bit fed up watching the Games tonight… it has been all England commentators talking about England… Did I miss Libby’s medal ceremony? Has it been yet?
Hi John King
Nice meeting you and your wife yesterday. You were in a couple of the pics on the link above. It was a great day.
And your wife left her pen.
And so the anti Scottish police force march on and begin the removal of the local inhabitants of Scotland from SCOTLAND’S Commonwealth Games!
link to twitter.com
hi John King
Nice meeting you and your wife yesterday at PQ3. You are in a couple of the pics on the link above.
And your wife left her pen behind.
The authorities would be well advised to take those “security guards” off the streets of Glasgow before they cause an incident,
thier behaviour is becoming questionable,
send them home,
we have enough people in Scotland who can ensure the safety of the public without bringing them up from London to ensure we dont get into trouble,
Hello caz-m nice to have met you after so long,
I saw the photo’s
I just wish I hadnt,
(need to lose the gut)
It has amazed me that no YES supporters have managed to fly a giant YES flag off that bridge, over the Clyde, in the background of Jackie Bird’s opening live news broadcast at 6.30pm
Just a thought.
Did I just put an idea into someone’s head, I wonder?
Aye alexicon, or from the Finnieston Crane..
Or both.
Problem is that it is actually a camera view you see behind the presenters, so they would just switch to bbc log or something.
o
Nicola dropped a bombshell, Fracking Is being allowed after the yes vote, sure I heard somewhere that it wasnt being allowed, I’m away to have a lie down, this jigsaws starting to fall into place.
Just saw a bit of the Glasgow Commonwealth games where Gary lineker was talking to four English sports men, one of which was going on about the games, the atmosphere and being on home turf.
Says it all really.
That was an excellent turn by Nicola tonight in Motherwell. In the last 5 minutes alone she defended the principle of immigration and the fact people from abroad contribute far more to our economy than they take out. She condemned attacks of the poorest and most vulnerable in the UK and condemned the collective punishment of Palestinian people in Gaza. What a star she is.
I noticed on the comments feed on the Independence Live streaming from the Motherwell some familiar WOS commenteers and contributors with lovely supportive comments of audience members unused to speaking in public. That was a really nice touch. So much for Cochrane-style Nat evilness.
Video on 28th July 7pm Motherwell Q&A Nicola Sturgeon MSP
link to new.livestream.com
I think Finnieston crane would be a bit of a climb whereas the bridge has a pavement along side.
Woman been thrown out of commonwealth pool for waving a YES saltire.
Why wasn’t Wiggins and his team not escorted out?
link to taboard.com
Gary Lineker does have a tweet account and can be reached, I presume.
Another interesting wee snippet on how the press is regarded here:
link to rsf.org
World Press Freedom Index.
I think a hell of a lot of questions need to be asked of the Commonwealth organising committee, the police and others about the difference between how Some Scots are being treated and how the English cyclists and supporters of England are being treated!
We want answers, and we want them NOW!
I’d like to know how Bruce Wallace knows Nicola Sturgeon can allow fracking in an independent Scotland at this moment in time given she isn’t a member of a future independent Scottish Government which itself doesn’t actually exist at this moment in time.
The English team helmets do not comply with Commonwealth Games regulations, therefore someone should launch a robust demand that they are disqualified for breaching the rules.
The question is then …if we win on the 19th …what to do with the media of a new Scotland?
One thing is certain. If ‘Yes’ win, the media for a while will still be London controlled. I have no doubt that the BBC will either sit down and agree to a buyout, or more likely, offer some sort of deal where it remains the main channel in Scotland, give us what we want, but would still want us to continue paying our TV licences.
But what about the newspapers? This will be a different kettle of fish. Literally all our newspapers are London controlled. Come March 2016 …in effect, we could end up with an Indy Scotland still having its media controlled by another nation (in this case, London). It would almost smack of the old ‘Power devolved is power retained’ which means London might still have a good grip on Scotland, especially when it comes to media information.
I’m wondering if Scotland might have to buy back the parts that are Scottish (say the Daily Record or The Sun from the London press barons), or is it a case of ‘we’ll have to trust them’, or will a new set of newspapers need to be created?
@Bruce – Westminster have given out licenses for fracking and what Nicola said is that these licenses cannot be revoked in an independent Scotland but that it may prove difficult for these companies to get the planning go ahead to frack. In Wasteminster land, of course, they will be able to frack wherever and whenever they please
Sorry Lesley Anne, I didn’t see your earlier comment on the woman being thrown out of the commonwealth games.
Has anyone got the email address of the CWGC and the police chief of Scotland so we all can complain?
@JLT – or will a new set of newspapers need to be created?
The Wings Over Scotland Gazette.. or something similar
Look at this pic, not only a Union flag with GB on it, the one between it and the Welsh flag looks like a Saltire with no on it.
link to facebook.com
Anyone wanting to raise a complaint with the Commonwealth organising committee might like to consider using this site.
link to glasgow2014.com
I just used the e-mail contact details at the bottom of the page and sent it under General enquiries. I know it isn’t ideal but they do seem to be rather difficult to get hold of, particularly concerning rules infringements etc!
@ Lesley Anne
That be agent cup-cake, a well known subservsive from Easter Ross, being escorted from the swimming. Note that it takes 2 of Glasgow’s finest to see a 9 (?) stone lassie from the Highlands off the premises… must’ve been in a hurry to get that uncensored saltire out of the arena when they couldn’t even wait for reinforcements to arrive!
Sorry Alex I forgot to put up the contact for the police.
I’m guessing this page might be of some use if you wanted to complain to the police Chief.
link to scotland.police.uk
Croompenstein
I would happily pay for Stuart to run an online political newspaper that will happily keep us informed of things locally (Scotland), UK Nationally and Internationally. Hell, I’ll even become his foreign correspondent if he wants once I get the old History Degree! (LOL)
But no seriously, I know we’ve all talked about dealing with the media post-Yes, but I think it’s easier said that done. Certainly, the BBC can be dealt with as that is mainly just one entity. However, it gets harder when we are talking about a whole list of newspapers. Basically, how do you control something that is not in your own backyard?
Oh right.
Well next time you speak with agent cup cake give her our best wishes and tell her that she did US and the CAUSE proud!
If Stu handed out medals I’m sure she would have been receiving notification any day now!
Aye you’re right Hood. Utterly disgusting!
@JLT
By not not supporting them financially.
Ok… just saw Libbys medal ceremony… absolutely brilliant.
But I swear the volumes were being fiddled with during the second verse.
Great work by the sound man muffling Flower of Scotland at Hampden
Stuart, after looking at Hood’s picture above, I think we might need a wee highlighting article pointing out that there seems to be 2 rules here; ‘Yes’ stuff being banned, while what seems to be a Saltire with ‘No’ through it being allowed. Double standards indeed!
If anyone else has pictures of ‘No’ getting away with murder at the games, then I would post them here. The more evidence, the greater the proof.
I see some comments about the English cyclists wearing Team GB crash hats, complete with the Union Flag.
This one is a no-winner for the Yes campaign. The Aussies will not complain – they probably cannot tell the difference between England and GB, don’t care any way and are quite happy to have stuffed them.
If Scotland make an official complaint – the London media would have a field day: “petty, small-minded, bad losers etc”. This is another incidence where, we are best to bite our tongues, let them be, don’t get mad – get even, by working even harder for a Yes vote, and we are shot of them.
As an aside – I think it was the Manchester Games in 2002, one of the Scots guys who was in the UK Cycling squad at the Manchester cycling centre went to get his bike for the Games, and it had been given to an English cyclist.
The English sports administrators’ mind-set is: England/Britain, one and the same. The Scot got his bike back by the way, much to the chagrin of the English administrators.
Libbhy Clegg’s medal ceremony on as I type. Loud, although I accept, they mute the sound slightly. Mind you, NO rendition of FoS has ever come close to the “Grudge” match at Murrayfield in 1990.
Will Police Scotland now be asked by Yes Scotland (officially, and publicly) to clarify exactly what instructions their officers have been given regarding the definition of ‘unacceptable’ material in premises being used for CG events?
The officers are only doing as they’re told – what have they been told?
Cynicalhighlander,
I would still say that is easier said than done (to many folk like my father who for some perverse reason, loves his Daily Mail …why Dad, why????).
I can see papers like The Sun or The Record publishing just the right stuff to pander to a set group (say the Record gives wall to wall coverage in its sports section to the Old Firm (aye …as if they don’t do that enough already!)), then enough folk will just continue to buy it…
Seriously, Scotland is being pissed on from a great height, make no mistake, in the event of a No vote it will be more solid.
I accidently attended Jim Murphy’s talk in Stornoway tonight. There were about 30 people there – 90% Labour Party diehards.
On WMD he said he did not believe that moving them a few miles accross the border would help anyone, so I asked him why he was saying that as there was no place a few miles down the border to house the WMD. He asked me why I was calling him a liar, I said I was only questioning him and not calling him a liar, he could not tell me where they were going to keep them.
On the pound he said we were not going to be able to use the pound so I asked him who was going to stop us from using it. He said He did not want his country to be like Panama using the Dollar, I said “no like Ireland using the pound after they go their independence for 50 years before using another currency”. Then he went on about how UK had helped Ireland when the banks were in trouble.
He also said we were getting over £1200 more per head spending than the rest of UK, but forgot to mention we contribute more in taxes than we get back.
At the end he came to thank me so I asked him my last question on if he was happy being funded by Tory millionaires, he said but your campaign is funded by 2 Lottery winners to which I replied they are scottish and live in Scotland, so what, he then quickly moved on!
In my humble opinion Jim was not trying to convert anyone, he was just trying to keep the core Labour Party voters happy.
The good news is that the No voters genuinely believe they are going to win, so they don’t campaign much, as our campaigners are canvassing every night and most of Saturday, They only have Sundays off as it is a Holy day up here.
ps I was really confident asking questions tonight thanks to reading Wings!!!
Oh some lassie just waved a saltire and stuck the vickies up at the English boxer
Gawn yersel Susan, more power to you!
@Susan –
Well done you.
I doubt I would’ve been able to keep the heid listening to that belter, never mind ask a question.
Well done Susan. Great work.
Glasgow Police are in the Labour/Unionists pocket in Glasgow. GCC get away with murder.
Glasgow Police meet at the Lodge
@Ken500.
No action against the Labour Leader having fun in the car park!
There must be many members of Police Scotland, and Glaswegian officers particularly, who object to being used like this – it seems (anecdotally at any rate) that Police officers have also been officially barred from even discussing indy-ref matters, even when off-duty.
Anyone with good Police connections able to give us any griff on what, if anything, is being said around the canteen tables of a morning?
I think people here should be careful not to blame ordinary police officers etc. The issues are at an establishment level.
I am more than certain that there are many police officers & staff who read wings and support Yes. Lets not isolate people please.
Hehe, You set them up Lesley-Anne…
Oops, thanks for the useful pic Hood. Just used it to counter the woman removed for Yes flag on twitter.
Socrates
Agreed. Need to pick our battles as hard as that can be.
We older guys, (only those with really good long memories) can indeed remember pre-WWII Programmes. Back then there was only the BBC and a few stronger continental stations. However, when they were spouting propaganda the more astute Britons were not fooled.
My old Grand Father was, a bit like myself, a news junkie. We lived in a Puckie’s Raw, (ploughmans row), with no electricity and the Grid Bias & HT batteries were hard to come by during the war. So listening was very selective but the news was never deliberately missed. I was just a wee boy and bad language was not used in the family.
So you can understand how it stuck in my mind when the torrent of, ‘swearie wirds’ the old man came out with as he yelled at the wireless exactly what he thought at the BBC taking the real defeat of Dunkirk and making it seem to the more gullable as a great British victory. The old man could smell a BBC propaganda report before they even reported it.
@ Paula Rose, 6:59pm
This “older citizen” can’t recall a time in her adult life when she trusted the media. People used to laugh at Pravda and Isvestia in the Soviet Union and talk of state propaganda, never noticing what was happening in our own media. Brainwashing or what?
Well I know nuffing, I do nuffing I must be useful for somefing X_Sticks!
After getting home from the demo at PQ I posted here that after being told to use the toilets in Starbucks I took my YES saltire from around me and held it in my hand. The security guy( it was to the BBC too) searched my bag and then told me to put my flag in my bag. I asked him politely if it is the case that I can’t hold my National flag in my hand, (it was folded) in my own country? He just said put it in your bag!
I was furious, but didn’t get any reaction on here so thought that I was being paranoid! So it is happening a lot! It’s got to stop!
I don’t think you got much of a reaction, if any FoS because it was BBC security and being the BBC it was nothing new to most folks. Perhaps we should have been a bit more reactive to your post other than just jeez BBC at it again!
Paula Rose says:
28 July, 2014 at 6:59 pm
Do our older citizens recall a time when they trusted the media? Or is this a modern development?
I think I was around 15 when I became aware that DC Thomson was a ‘tory-supporting’ organisation. That would be around the time that Winnie Ewing won the Hamilton by-election.
Funny thing is, although Dundee’s local council see-sawed bethween Labour and Progressive (tory), we, in Dundee, didn’t turn away from The Courier. The Tully, The Weekly News and The People’s Journal.
It was almost like an ‘in joke’. We could enjoy The Sunday Post, almost in spite of its owners’ political views. Remember, this was the company that BANNED union membership for decades and had managed to publish during the 1926 General Strike.
I think we Dundonians still regard DC Thomsons’s ‘local’ publications as “ours”, rather than “theirs”. Only thing is, do they get that?
We take what they print, politically, with a pinch of salt. Hence Dundee has an SNP controlled council, one SNP MP and one Labour MP, and two SNP MSP’s, plus of course, the list MSP’s.
It has been noted on WOS that The Courier’s handling of referendum issues has been more even-handed than much of the Scottish MSM and I have seen that myself. But that insight has a lot to do with the fact that I have been reading stuff at WOS for over a year now – and that fairly sharpens one’s ßüll$h!† antennae!
So thanks to the Rev for the training and thanks to DCT for at least trying, but they’ve still got to get out of the habit of printing ‘Better Together’ press releases without any basic investigation into their veracity.
I’ve had blethers with a few DCT reporters over the past few years. They seem to have been intelligent individuals; I can only guess they’re a tad more gullible than their intelligence would suggest, or, perchance, they’re working under ‘company policy’?
Scotland the only country in the world where people are not allowed to fly or display their flag.
BBC Pravada. ‘England the Home nation’?
Scottish taxpayers paid for the Games
Vote YES
FoS you were not being paranoid. That is the world or country we now live in, Scotland and the Scottish people being repressed has become the norm.
This will only change with Independence.
Sorry for going O/T but I’ve just watched Dr Phillipa Whitford give another of her inspiring speeches.
link to ayetalks.net
Back from Hampden tonight with very mixed feelings. Better Together Glasgow official poster there at the start of the walkway from Mount Florida ( so much for not politicising the games); symbols of Britishness at the security checkpoints in the form of the army; English stadium announcer at Scotland’s home games; very strong English presence in the crowd, more vociferous by and large than the Scots; and a woman with a Saltire sat next to me whose whooping and hollering for team England far outstripped her vocal support for Scotland.
Add to that poor rail travel arrangements and pitiful catering service at the venue.
Were it ot for the plethora – the astonishing plethora – of Yes posters in windows in houses on the route to Hampden tonight might have been very depressing..
@Jim Marshall says: 28 July, 2014 at 8:22 pm:
aula Rose 6.59
“I certainly could be described as “older” Paula but unfortunately I have never been a “citizen”. In legal terms I am a subject of the Crown and also a vassal of my feu superior.”
Err! No Jim, you are wrong. Under Scottish Law you are not a subject of either the crown or of Westminster.
The independent Scottish legal system is based upon the fact that the People of Scotland are sovereign and the monarchy are, “Protectors of the People’s Sovereignty”.
In the three country Kingdom of England they had the, “Glorious Revolution”, in 1688 and the Parliament deposed James II of England. This did not legally depose James VII as the two kingdoms were still independent until the Treaty of Union, 1706/7. The English Parliament also removed the Divine Right Of Kings veto over the English parliament in 1688. This made only the three country Kingdom of England, “A Constitutional Monarchy”.
In Scotland we, The People of Scotland, have, for example, Right to Roam because, as sovereign, we own Scotland. There is no English style law of Trespass under Scotish Law. A more modern example of this is that no private person in Scotland can clamp a vehicle parked upon private land and demand a fee to unclamp it. If they do and the victim calls the police the clamper is charged with demanding money with menace.
In fact as the Monarchy, (and thus Westminster), are legally the people of Scotland’s subjects as under Scottish law we have the legal right to sack a royal and appoint another in his/her place.
I noticed both walking to and from the PQ demo yesterday that there seemed to be people supposedly directing pedestrians who were making antagonistic remarks to us because we had Yes badges and Saltires. At one point we were told we couldn’t walk along past the SECC although we could see other people walking along the road. Finally a local policeman intervened and told us just to go along the road as there was no other way to get to the Transport Museum car park.
@WRH2 says: 28 July, 2014 at 11:41 pm:
“I noticed both walking to and from the PQ demo yesterday that there seemed to be people supposedly directing pedestrians who were making antagonistic remarks to us because we had Yes badges and Saltires.”
This is all goint to blow up in their faces. I complained already to the games organisers but expect they will, as usual, just ignore it. It needs lots of complaints to make an impact.
Tomorrow I’m considering calling in at Police Scotland at the Cowdenbeath Station and making a formal complaint about saltire carrying people being manhandled by security staff at the games for carrying our countries flag. Failing that I’ll do so on line.
They can, the Establishment, claim it is small minded if they wish but if the Games Organisers have broken the law then there’s little they can do about it if the Police do take action.
Another line of attack may be via the Provurators Fiscal Office. I’m not sure if members of the public can call for these to act, though.
Anyway I’m for bed. Nighty, night.
Please remember that one of the big contributors to BT is involved with security/mercenaries, and the Tory party.
Ian Brotherhood says
“Police officers have also been officially barred from even discussing indy-ref matters, even when off-duty.”
Eh naw, my wife spoke to a cop at an event that shall remain nameless in Glasgow on sunday and she asked him if he wanted a wings badge from a stall run by a gentleman who shall also remain nameless but he has a shed,
the policemans response was “no I’d better not, if I get any more badges (indie) I be setting the metal detectors off at the station”.
The reaction we had from the police was brilliant and the young female policewoman blushed with delight when I said I recognised her from online video of the previous event at the place that we shall not name, but it was at Pacific Quay.
@ John King.
Spoke with a local Bobby (not Glasgow).
It’s apparently against their regulations to discuss or be involved in politics, on duty or off.
Being disciplined or investigated by Professional Standards would be the minimum outcome apparently.
Lesley-Anne says
“Well I know nuffing, I do nuffing I must be useful for somefing X_Sticks! ”
Dont be daft your one of the stalwarts here and especially so now that you’ve gotton over your “ahem” cough (thank god)
the links you have give me are brilliant,
oh and btw I sent an email of complaint to the games organisers after you posted the link, (SEE) and I was polite but demanded an answer to the blatent bias being perpatrated at the games venues against yes supporters while ignoring breaches by no as seen on the twitter feed of the UJ and the no Saltire,
Keep it up Arbroath your doing great!
Im absolutly sure you are 100% correct Graham but with the best will in the world a person who is supportive of your cause can display thier feelings without overtly saying so, and thats what my wife got from the policemen she spoke to, and I trust her judgement,
she’s a good judge of character, she ended up with me didnt she?
As this is EU, it does not show Norway. I understand that the state partly funds funds their press (I think it there is only one National newspaper).
I’d be curious to know how the level of trust relates to press ownership in Europe.
Its not just us that are seeing the BBC and the rest of the Brit nat media for what they are.
People I talk to about the referendum (ie real ordinary Mums and Dads, brothers, sister and uncles etc) do not trust the media and know fine well it is making a full of us.
We had a chat with some of the Police at PQ too – one came to pat me on the back after I had been interviewed on the Livestream with the babber I was holding with my son. a whispered “you tell them!”
Mind you they were bussed in from Stirling for the day (and aren’t they young these days).
My friend showed him photos of her YES sign in her garden that had been “vandalised” with three NO stickers and we chatted a while about should we make an official complaint? Thing is they were scabby and falling off …. so its seems their glue is as effective as their debate. Mind you – if she had been a Labour Politico instead of an “ordinary mum” she oculd have made the front page (NOT)
Oops – banner …. sorry Stu. Voice recognition software!
Saw a comment which led me to look at the make up of the British Polling Council. Fortunately I had swallowed my coffee and put down the cup before I clicked on the page. Please do the same before you look – spraying with liquid is generally not recommended for electronic devices.
Hint: it starts with the Management Committee President – one Professor John Curtice – heard of him perhaps?
I’m not expecting any change in the Polls. It is not a conspiracy – it is just another example of the power of the rich and the political elite. Remember, the Scottish Independence referendum is a tiny part of a Pollsters business. Piss off your main clients (i.e. the main Westminster parties and the MSM) and pretty soon you won’t have a business.
I’m not completely up on the rules but I was under the impression that it was not allowed to bring in political flags, or is it anything that may be construed as political? If so, does that mean that the Yes campaign now own the word “yes”? I see the Daily Record are looking to speak to her about her experience.
I also see the clip going round twitter where Chris Hoy speaks about the 2 wedding proposals from athletes, where he said something like “what a day, 2 medals, 2 wedding proposals, 2 Yes…er, 2 acceptances.” No idea if it was intentional, sub-conscious or nothing to do with anything, but when common everyday words like yes or no thanks become a potential police matter then I despair a little.
Here’s a thing. Go back to the top. Click on the Euro map to make it active.
Mouse over the UK and watch the highlighting. Is it telling us something. It’s rUK maybe.
Ian Brotherhood et al, I got a check stop a few weeks ago on Gt. Western Rd. Glasgow. As the cop went round the back to get the number I got out, followed him round, pointed at my badge and asked how he and his colleages were feeling about it. A bit non committal, but as I went back to take off, he said he was a Yes.
I hear the DSS snoops are wearing volunteer uniforms and grassing up unemployed people dressed as teacakes.
The police have the same mixed political views as the communities they come from. Some pro, some anti Indy. It is not an issue.
Sorry I couldn’t make it to PQ3 – photos are great!
Hope Ronnie, star that he is , remembered to proxy sign the Wings banner for me!
@ Dorothy
Devine. Signed Sealed & Delivered another great song from the past ,You & Nana Smith were signed in.
I think that the cop ethos would generally be in favour of a No vote, after all their job is ultimately to serve and protect the interests of the ruling class before it’s to serve and protect anyone else.
However like anyone else they have their own individual votes and some of them will vote YES whatever their bosses try and tell them to do. Wouldn’t like to bet on it being a majority though.
Never quite understood the point of an employer trying to tell staff/employees how to vote, in the privacy of the booth they’ll vote for whatever they want to vote for.
Of course you are not alone!
Have a look at http://www.solidaritywithscotland.com and see all the photos with messages of support for an independent Scotland from all around the world!