Unionist Blackjack
Posted on
November 17, 2018 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
In the House of the Setting Sun
Should the SNP not support May’s deal if it wants indi?
May’s deal is better than no deal and it will speed brexit up.
No deal will harm scotland more than May’s deal
A general election, or delayed brexit, delays indi vote
If there is no brexit, then no Indy ref trigger
May’s deal is a Indy ref trigger by SNP rational
They could make their support conditional on something for Scotland like the DUP did
No brainier no?
Another belter Chris. Though your cartoon depicts that wee self serving turd sitting, he should be on his knees begging forgiveness to the Scottish people for the lies and betrayal he and the tank rider have spouted, unchallenged to the people of Scotland . You can exclude the fishing cartels in that , for them i hope it is karma , they would sell their granny at the expense of us all. Spineless shitbag of mumbling ,bumbling man.
Drop the Joker!
I know what I’d like to do with a Spade.
The only Flush is down the toilet!
More Twisted than twist.
Nothing for the Pair in that Game.
Who has the Scabby Queen?
House of Cads.
Nothing up their sleeve.
Time for the Tories to fold.
Great article by Kevin Mckenna in Herald while usual rubbish from North Britan Brian Wilson in Scotsman
Please do not rush over to comment on Mr McKenna’s article , leave the frothers to froth – they sound utterly ridiculous and presumably if they are left to their own devices , will start eating each other.
I wonder how long the herald can hold out ? Given the demise of the scotsman one can speculate on the ticking clock.
Another cracker!!
Time is fast approaching
He’s stuck all right. Stuck in the mire of his lies and mendacity. The trader in shoddy Acts of Westminster such as the Scotland Bill 2016, the “normality” of the Sewell convention, the “permanence” of the Scottish Parliament.
If Mundell thinks it is a good deal then it is definitely a dead duck.
I’m surprised she lets him sit down in her presence: “On your knees, Jock”.
@Sinky
An article about Neil Oliver in the Herald. Best get your sick bucket first.
That sleekit look of a steaming turd turning it’s nose up at its own stench.
Unreal likeness from the king of crayons.
Gfaetheblock ( pay attention in the cheap seats ) Mays deal changes with the wind direction & Nicola & SNP Gov just need to sit & wait on this clusterF to be discussed in the commons .
BTW in case you haven’t noticed May has ignored the Scottish Gov’s viewpoints on Brexit , so why should the Scottish Gov support the Tories . Scottish Gov are Not duplicitous bastards such are the DUP.
A man of principles, whichever ones she gives him.
Pop quiz
David Mundell is;
A. An absolute behemoth of powerful political discourse, who has demonstrated fortitude and tact, whilst supporting the people of Scotland in these troubling times. A true man of principle, who will be remembered as one of the greats of Scottish political history.
OR
B. A shallow weasel of a man, with zero personal integrity, happy to see the people of Scotland suffer, so long as he gets the peerage he has been promised by his masters in England.
Well done Chris May’s dealing from ah stacked deck & the clowns like Mundell think their in the same game lol.
Jobsworth and Jobsworth.
Another classic Chris, Nice One.
Morgatron@7.26
I couldn’t have put it better myself.
“My job’s to keep Scotland in the Union”, says Mundell to Sky interviewer. Has he no ambition whatsoever!
link to twitter.com
Johnstone Press in administration . Power To The People C mon , take a Bow all you would be journalists Wilson/Kelly ect ect your writings hastened the demise .
” my job’s to KEEP Scotland in the union” says Mundell.
Mundell = prison governor.
Right Wing dominated press & BBC ignore the devastating UN report on Tory Austerity and Universal Credit.
link to thenational.scot
THE UN has accused the Tories of choosing to make the poorest people in Britain poorer while funding tax cuts for the wealthy.
Report praises Scottish government spending £125m mitigating Tory austerity.
Nicola’s ‘snub’ of Lidington was completely understandable but, again, I do think it was possibly playing into Tory hands.
This deal is probably about as good as Scotland’s chances for indy are going to see but by her own rules the SNP will vote against it.
Down the line, the Tories can say Lidington brought the offer of a section 30 in exchange for supporting the deal and that NS missed her opportunity.
Where is the leader of Scotland`s Conservative and Unionists Colonel Ruth Davidson,
some leader and soldier,disappearing every time there is a whiff of trouble or controversy,aided by a complicit unionist media,
i`m sure she will return when the firing stops to tell the unionist media that everything was Nicola`s fault,
some leader,some soldier.
Johnson press…it is likely that a fall in sales in Scotland and Northern Ireland has exacerbated their £220 million overdraft, they continue to treat the majority who voted to remain in the EU as if they don’t count and treat the half of the population who want reunification in Ireland and independence in Scotland ,as if they don’t exist.
Who will buy them ? Someone will, nobody so far but there’s time.
Sec of State is a non job. Mundell has the perfect profile. Soon we may have an English secretary, as in NI and Wales.
An indy ref would be a noble gesture but without a massive anti-Union propaganda assault on the system, in effect an ‘exposé’ of the great confidence trick which is BritState, it might prove futile.
The SNP leadership must go on the offensive. At the moment it seems the prisoner of events.
The Brexit induced torpor of Scottish political life must end.
Where is Red Line Ruth, she is like a pantomime figure, ‘Where are my red lines’, ‘they’re behind you’ is the response.
@Essexexile
An offer of the S30 in exchange for voting with the Tories on such a deal would be a very difficult one, not a choice I’d want to have. Sturgeon would be condemned by many, both Leave and Remain, for not caring about the rUK in her “mad obsession” about Independence, both in the rUK and in Scotland. It would probably be a vote loser.
@yesindyref2
I think it could be sold as giving Scotland a further decision on Brexit, which of course the Scotgov have a mandate for. Could even persuade the Tories to state that too. NS has plenty of leverage here.
Got to get that S30 somehow.
Sun Tzu, `The Art of War`
on the demise of the Scotsman
“If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by.”,
Nicola, being a great reader and bibliophile, i`m sure must have read the works of Sun Tzu,
`The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace,
whose only thought is to protect her country and do good service for her people, is the jewel of the nation.`
Mr Bun the baker…ha,ha,ha.
@Essexexile
I think Nicola Sturgeon has made it plain what her red lines are, real ones not the Ruth Davidson type, and that is staying in the SM & CU. An offer of a S30 order for something there is already a mandate for is actually offering nothing and would leave Scotland to the whims of Westminster. And after 2014 how could anyone trust one word from a Tory minister.
I watch their actions not their words, the will of the people, now overturning the devolution settlement that was the overwhelming will of the people.
Forget about any Tory offers they will not keep their word. Scotland has not been involved in any Brexit talks. Leave it that way. Nothing to do with us Theresa . . .
have a nice day
A deck of cads !!!
Haha, the Blockbuster card. Remember that one? Not that long ago, it seems.
@Essexexile
There is no way a S30 was on offer. Lidington was sent up here, after everyone had the deal, had shredded it and moved back to destroying the UK.
Even playing out your notion, puts May in the wrong, for attempting to break up her “precious union” over the Brexit deal.
This is the govt taking Scotgov to court for not consenting to the Withdrawal Act. They aren’t about to send the bagcarrier up here with a S30.
How long is the long game though?
Politics is all about bargaining of course and right now the Tories are desperate for SNP support.
A perfect time to get what you want out of them.
People from Scotland were stopped in Leicester Square, London recently by an absolutely decent person recently. Asking for money. Not begging asking for money. They had a bike with obviously all their worldly goods upon it. They explaibed they had been living in a carpark nearby but were being moved on from there. In a City of massive affluence this is going on. Homelessness has increased elsewhere by up to 50% in the last few years.
The SNP Gov is building affordable homes and mitigating the Tory cuts. The Tory/unionists are constantly trying to illegally and unecessarily cut the Scottish budget. Scotland would be £Billions better off Independent.
No one ever tries to drink their tea while it is still being poured.
So also with Brexit. When the Brexit Agreement is SIGNED will be the time for Scotland to make its move.
Only fools rush in, and we do have a few of them.
Never, ever trust a Tory or play their games. Never, ever bail them out. Lidlington is a smirking snake. A ignorant high Tory. Let them slither in their own poison. Disintergration. The time is nigh.
Now that is a most excellent snapshot of a cartoon, if ever I saw one, Mr. Cairns. Spot on.
An S30 is not needed. Just a mandate and an appeal to the EU or UN. Thst is how Scotland got Devolution and the limited, as much as possible, powers. The UK will be out of the EU and UN if they do not comply. Yet the people want to be in the EU/UN. The Tories will crash soon enough. The endgame is nigh.
I love the little details in this drawing, Chris.
So clever – you are just the best!
But perhaps a tad generous to Theresa May – I’m not sure she looks that good in real life.
Just surprised there isn’t the Nine of Diamonds among that lot.
Nicola wull shove the Nine 0′ Diamonds doon the Tory thrapple soon enough.
Every richt minded folk ken the Treaty o’ Union as broken, it’s bin broke since the day it wis writ, noo mair folk ur seein’ it tae, awe aroon the world.
As 2019 is jist roon the corner, I wunner whit it’ll bring considerin’ a load o’ folk said that 2018 wad be a boring year fur politics !
I can almost read her mind, come on you pathetic snivelling little piece o sh\te.
Davidson is hiding as usual. Carlaw forget it. Another useless article. Vacant coupon. Reinsurrection.
Always remember that the primary purpose of the Conservative Party is to protect and increase, in all circumstances, the power and wealth of the elites of the English Establishment.
The rest of the population is about crumbs.
…right now the Tories are desperate for SNP support.
A perfect time to get what you want out of them.
No. They are TORIES. NEVER TRUST A TORY. How often does this have to be said?
@Proud Cyberñat
Just beat me too it there!
Excellent cartoon.
My eldest’s partner is head of the Scotsman, Head Chef of the restaurant in the hotel in the former Scotsman building which bought the name as well as the building.
How are the might fallen, the Hootsmon paper my SiL’s cooking is sublime. The Scotsman Restaurant are lucky to have him.
If there’s a fire sale of the assets, no pension liabilities, no debt we should crowdfund to buy the Hootsmon and turn it around. I’ll do the science column. Who wants fitba and who’s for Murder and who for Kittens and Moppets?
Mundell holding the black spot, very appropriate!
He has one job and one job only – defend their Union.
I am also convinced that maintaining their Union is the Tories’ number one priority. That’s not the narrative the loyal media present, but an awful lot of evidence suggests the integrity of UKOK is paramount.
The stalling point for agreeing a Withdrawal Agreement was to avoid a border down the Irish Sea. The messy and complex ‘deal’ they now have revolves around minimising any divergence between NI and rUK. The only explanation for this is UK integrity. ‘Canada’ would have appealed more to Tories but having that would have meant ‘losing’ NI.
As for the Scottish aspect of Project Keep-the-UK (as I said above) Mundell is all about their Union. Same can be said for Davidson and the MPs. The BBC has been fully mobilised. The SG sidelined or thwarted wherever possible. Devolution is being undone.
Brexit is an unfortunate sideshow, ‘saving’ the Union is the real battleground, IMO.
Laura Kuenssberg
?
@bbclaurak
Steve Baker confirms his list does indeed suggest 48 letter threshold has been reached with maybe a dozen more – but he says impossible to know for sure because colleagues aren’t sometimes coy about what they have actually done
—————–
we will know on mon/tues if the challenge is happening.
Rejoice at the demise of Johnston Press and The Scotsman.
The exercise started by Brillo nears completion.
Having been a loyal daily reader for 44 years stating in 1965 until sickened by the political stance of the rag and now approaching 78 I have wondered where my eventual demise will be recorded.
The Scotsman told the world of my birth, engagement
and marriage along with the death of my parents and the same events for relatives, friends and acquaintances.
Not having purchased The Scotsman for several years I am unaware how many deaths are recorded therein – but with the tiny circulation – it can’t be many.
Is there not a gap in the market for somebody to set up a national B/M/D site broken down by area with reasonable charges.
After all, with the arrival of the net the dead tree press have lost advertising for Cars, Property and Jobs previously all big earners and reasons for purchasing the papers – so why not let us have the same for Births/Marriages and Deaths.
May and Mundell do seem to be Unionists.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the English Nationalist wing of the Tories took hold of the reins?
Why? Because if they became solely England centric then everyone could get what they wanted, and I would venture, what would best for them.
If they were to set aside obsessions with Greater England and focused on the real thing, then Scotland could opt for Indy in the EU and NI could form a new United Ireland with the Rep, also in the EU.
Merry England could have the Engexit it probably wants. With no NI border to worry about they could have their Canada Plus Plus free trade deal. Scotland and Ireland, being within the EU, would thereafter have reasonably smooth trading with England.
Wales? They would have to think very hard about which way to jump.
There you are. Everything sorted if only the Tories would look to England first and abandon the colonial UK empire.
Whilst I’m happy to see the hateful Scotsman go into administration, apparently, by some sleight of hand, it has been handed over to an American hedge fund but the hedge fund will not take over the Pension Fund, leaving employees with severely reduced pensions (or no pensions at all).
Despicable behaviour and shocking if legal.
I hope something can be done to prevent this from going ahead but I’m no legal expert.
Mini hand grenade to lob in to the argument, but if the ECJ recognises the legitimacy (and sovereignty ) of a case put before it under Scots Law, while the legitimacy of that same case is contested under UK law, doesn’t that rather dilute the significance of a Section 30 Agreement in terms of a referendum result being formally recognised?
In many ways, the Article 50 case heading for the ECJ is the reverse of a Section 30 Agreement. We are asking an International Arbiter for something to be recognised that is contrary to what Westminster will concede.
It is Westminster who should be pleading with us to have a Section 30, simply to warrant their token involvement in Scottish Constitutional affairs.
Time for the gloves off. When IndyRef is finally called, and the BritNat media launches the inevitable all-out attack, I hope that the SNP and YES reps are up to the task. Do not suffer these British nationalists dressed up as journalists any longer.
Three simple steps:
Brit Nat Reporter: “So blah blab, uncertainty, people don’t want it, according to experts, opion polls blah blah:”
Response:
1. We did not cause this mess!
“But bah blah!”
2. We spent the last two years trying to help – all our compromises and suggestions were ignored! There is no union – we are a sovereign nation
“More blah blah!”
3. Scotland needs protection – there is an alternative and we are confident the people of Scotland will consider it carefully!
Repeat as often as necessary, and don’t let the BritNats frame the arguments and set the agenda.
The BritNats are desperate fools – we don’t need to suffer them any longer. Take no prisoners.
If May wants the SNPs support it must be that they agree to abstain in exchange for section 30. However I wouldn’t go down that road. Let WM eat itself and Scotland will leave them to feast on the rotting carcass of English nationalism.
galamcennalath:
“I am also convinced that maintaining their Union is the Tories’ number one priority.”
Galamcennalath, in six months time the penny will drop, and then everyone will agree with you.
Outstanding as oor Nicola is, I hope she doesn’t try to stay too “nice” during what will be a very bitter campaign (BritNats choice). Get angry, Nicola, really angry.
IMO, Alex Salmond was too nice and courteous with Alistair Darling during the first debate in 2014. When he took the fight to him in the second, he wiped the floor with him. There’s a lesson.
@gala
that is exactly what the challenge is about, rees mogg and his ilk are english nationalists, who, while claiming to be british, care very little for anything outside england.
they believe, correctly in my opinion, that the majority of tory party members and voters in england support no deal.
if the challenge is successful, then the 1922 commitee will have won and we will have a new brexiteer tory pm.
how all this will go down in scotland is of little concern to these brexiteer rebels, however it will leave mundell with no where to go.
mundell accepts treeza’s deal because he has no choice.
a ge is now certain, the only question which now remains is who will lead the tories.
I don’t know how Chris can even draw an image of the disgusting Mundell. I boke every time I see Mundell on the internet.
One thing is beyond doubt: Westminster cannot be trusted. How many times has Scotland been “vowed” and lied to in the past? Too many. No, now is the time to openly tell Westminster to piss off. It’s not Scotland’s job to clear up England’s mess. Stockpile the popcorn.
Muscleguy @ 10.35am
Did the Scotsman Hotel not go into administration last year or 2016?
I think it was bought out of administration by the G1 Group who own other venues in Edinburgh. Apparently they are going to undertake a major refurbishment.
Essexexile @9.15am
I don’t think there was a word of that post that I agreed with.
First of all there was no “snub”. Why should she jump to attention to a last minute request for a meeting. Arrogance personified by Weasel Liddington.
Where do you get this info he was going to offer a S30? I very much doubt it.
A section 30 is not necessary. Some may say it is a nice to have. I do not. The Britnats have shown they are liars and full of treachery. They do not honour their promises.
Ronnie Anderson @ 8.34,
You have literally not answered the question or addressed ant of the points I made.
Not sure what you mean by the cheap seats point either
My favourite
“It is better to be the enemy of England than its friend because they will always betray their friends to gain advantage with an enemy.”
Never trust London (…or the Tories)
Essexexile@9.41am
“Got to get that S30 somehow “. No we don’t.
If you want to go down to London and beg for something they will not honour then go for it.
This cringing mentality has to stop.
Seeking agreement to a new section 30 order is simply giving legitimacy to WM’ rule over us.
Don’t know about you folks, but I’m at the stage now where I question every assumed WM power over us. Dig deep enough through all the legal smoke and mirrors and you will see it for what it really is – constitutional BS.
Why are we even respecting their self-appointed Supreme Court? If we don’t agree with it we should take it to the EU or the UN. Wull’s post last night was a real eye-opener.
I think we should challenge anything and everything that WM tries to impose on us. They are not fit for purpose. They only have power over us because we think they have power over us. The people of Scotland are sovereign. It’s about time we started behaving like we are.
@Breeks 11:07am
Interesting comment. Good grenade.
The EU has called WM’s bluff and humiliated the Britnats.
Our turn next.
I do take the well made points about not trusting the Tories but, the angry ‘not playing their game’ and ‘we don’t need anything from them’ statements bring to mind a cured cut of pork often dressed with pineapple. I hear A LOT of that talk down my way believe me!
‘As you reach for the stars in your eyes, you become the very thing you despise’ (sang by arguably the most underrated Scottish band in music history!)
Scotland on Sunday was a good read until Brillo took over.
He totally ruined a good paper.
Essexexile @9.59am
This is about the independence of a sovereign nation not about cheap bargaining politics.
They are proven liars and cheats. They even lie to their fellow Britnats. They do not keep their promises. There are decades of broken promises and treachery.
What has he been promised this time for selling Scotland down the river?
£50 gift voucher for John Lewis?
Has anyone got a clue what he does?
Mr Lidlthingy is just another arrogant and ignorant British nationalist who wants to drag Scotland down to britnat Westminster’s xenophobic level. The FM was right to highlight his hypocrisy.
BTW: keep boycotting the britnat media.
The recent Sky poll as I understand it stated that 32% want a no deal Brexit.
Not think that there will be a no deal Brexit but want it.
We need out of this madness that is the UK union.
It gets more Machiavellian by the day.
Rees Mogg challenges and becomes PM, then nominates his co-conspirators for the prominent cabinet posts.
UK refuses any kid of deal and exits the EU, allowing the Rees Mogg cabal to install an elected dictatorship, where only the poor pay taxes.
Scotland then opts to dissolve the union leaving England in a mess of its own making.
England looks over the border to Scotland and sees with envy a modern successful prosperous neighbour.
They dump the Tories and elect Corbyn, who sits on his hands for a few years.
The Tories re-group………………
@Cubby at 11.36
Sorry to say, but it looks like there wasn’t a word of my post that you read properly.
Getting beyond the headlines, reading the detail, not just seeing what you want to see. Isn’t that what Wings is all about?
This piece here
link to randompublicjournal.com
confirms for me what I’ve come to believe for some time now that there is really no such thing as a unionist only deluded regionalists as I call them, these are people who will stand up and support Scotland being a region of England in the misguided belief we’re in a union
There is no union there never has been a union, they call it a union they dress it up as a union but nobody in the English establishment believes they’re in a union and I doubt if there are many English people believe they’re in a union
Only our home grown regionalists believe we’re in union, hopefully the penny will drop for them sooner rather than later
schrodingers cat says:
” Unionism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. “, to paraphrase Samuel Johnson.
I do think the underlying battle within the Tories (and beyond) is the between English and British nationalism. As you say Rees Mogg is 100% English focused.
Those in Scotland and NI must see their ‘Britishness’ being attacked on two fronts – from those who believe there is a better existence outside the UK and those who believe an isolationist England can provide far right opportunities. If the don’t see it, then they aren’t watching.
Unionists need to appreciate their Union is dissolving around them. They need to accept the inevitable and think what to do accordingly.
Graeme says:
You are right. And right because as we all see, there is no Union in a meaningful way.
Regionalists of Greater England is about right.
I use (perhaps falling into the trap) their nomenclature of Union/Unionist. More accurately I should at least always qualify it as ‘so called Union’.
I suppose my comment at 12:09 should divide the Tories into those who want to put England first and those who want to maintain Greater England. The first group may be concluding that they stand a better chance of achieving their far right ‘utopia’ if they abandon the outer fringes!
Essexexile @12.03pm
Please do me the favour of explaining what I cannot read in your own words.
I always pictured David Davies playing cards against Barnier. And yes in his hand he had Mr. Bun the Baker. But also Kamchatka from Risk.
Legerwood @ 11.31
The loathesome Barclays sold the old Scotsman building soon after buying Scotsman Pubs as part of their asset stripping exercise.
They then built a new Scotsman building at Holyrood and I understand that they retained ownership of that when they sold out to JP.
David Lidington was urging the FM to support May’s Brexit deal. Apart from the numbers why would that be? Fluffy knows who makes the decisions, he must be relieved Ruth Davidson is on Mat leave so there is one less voice in his ear telling him what to do.
The Tories know the damage done to the SNP when they, amongst others, supported a vote of no confidence in Callaghan. No matter what the context, a vote for this deal would seriously damage the SNP for years to come. What did he want the meeting for, what might he have offered? The FM was right to turn it down.
Lidington also said he knew from reading the press, watching Scottish ‘News’ and his Yoon colleagues all the things wrong with Scotland.
The Scottish press then wonders why they are reviled – this surely confirms their role as a constant source of circular press releases from the Unionist parties rehashed as news and sources for the Tories to then use in Westminster.
The’Scotsman’ in its present incarnation can’t die soon enough but it won’t because it is too useful for the Unionists. Sad for everyone but mostly for the Scottish public crying out for a decent media.
The compassion and mutual concern that has long been part of the British tradition has been outsourced
The government should hang their heads in shame. What an utterly damning report.
link to threadreaderapp.com
Circumstances do alter cases. Reluctantly come to the conclusion that any future vote on independence ought to be within the context of a parliamentary election. The chances of a ref. even if Westminster were to concede that one might be held, May being totally opposed, before UK quits the EU are very slim. The prospect of winning equally so. Another failure would be demoralizing.
The British establishment seems in meltdown but it has historic regenerative skills. It cannot be written off as the end of the ancien régime. It may well come back fighting and be ready to take on all who might challenge its authority. Expect off scale jingoistic British patriotism to play a significant part.
The agencies of Scottish Nationalism need to be well prepared, their anti Unionist ‘narrative’ perfected and well rehearsed. We must fight fire with fire. No prisoners.
Some rousing words to the troops from the SNP generals would be most welcome at this time.
Regarding section 30. Firstly it is not necessary to hold a referendum. Secondly, and p[erhaps most importantly, you do not negotiate in order to have your already established rights.
The SNP would be utter fools to negotiate ANYTHING in that regard. Utter fools.
A further point. With almost daily occurence, Westminster is literally tearing up ALL the so-called ‘constitutional norms’ of the United Kingdom, yet I still see many here, sugesting that somehow Scotland must play by the rules. Their are no prizes for being ‘nice’ whilste you enemies (Westminster) takes everything while openly laughing at you
In my honest opinion, when it comes to the crunch point (March 2019) and Westminster carries on as it is, I genuinely believe that as the democratically elected government of Scotland it is not only desirable, but incumbent upon the Scottish Government and FM to take ANY and ALL steps to ensure Scotland remains within the EU. If that means declaring UDI, or oither seps such as halting artcile 50, as it is not consitutionally competent for Scotland, etc. then so be it. Our list of democratic insults injustices and grievances is very, very long.
The overriding mandate of the democratically elected Scottish Government is to do what is best for Scotland and its people. That is ALL the authority needed.
The whole world would understand, that Scotland cannot just sit back and let England forcibly remove Scotland from the EU against its wishes. Scotlamd is in a union with England via a bilateral revocable treaty, it is not bound in chains (which might be a surprise to most Tory MP’s). Some folks will say, ‘oh, but you can’t do that’, to which I might reply, ‘why not’? think it through to the endpoint.
People and the Scotgov need to start thinking outside the box. Instead of preparing for brexit (what a compliant, pathetic approach that is), they should be preparing for independence and Scotland staying in the EU.
London has torn up the rule book, it is time for action in Scotland. The rules NO LONGER apply.
Nicolas needs to do—-nothing actually. The people of England have spoken. Ha ha ha. Nothing focuses minds on something more than when you lose it.
Barnier will not give an inch and we are heading for a no deal.
Let em stew.
@Cubby the poll you refer to is interesting. It has 3 options 1. stay in the (54%) 2. May’s deal (14%) 3. No deal (32%). May’s deal is due to be voted on early december and by all accounts it will be rejected. There isn’t time between December and now to hold a ‘people’s vote’ and the EU won’t renogatiate so a ‘people’s vote’ would be between Stay in the EU or No deal.
If we assume from the sky poll that 54% want to stay in and 46% want to leave (There is another poll showing 53% stay/47% leave) we are in the same place as the polls thought we were before the original EU referendum. So after all the shambles of the last 2 years, all the lies being laid bare and all the information now available on the implications of a no deal brexit there is every chance that ‘people’s vote’ would see a vote for a No Deal.
With the real possibility of that outcome there will be no ‘people’s vote’. There would only be one if it was certain stay in would romp it which on that polling is just not likely.
That leaves the only options as 1. Do nothing and we leave on a ‘no deal’ on 29th March 2. New prime minister extends article 50 (politically very difficult as their first move).
Scenario – a majority of the Scottish MPs at Westminster declare the termination of the Treaty of Union at the same time as The Scottish parliament does the same. Why is that not the end of the Union?
The Union was not created by a referendum. It was created (a majority not unanimous) by the representatives of the Kingdom of Scotland. It can be terminated by the representatives of today’s Scotland.
It is not UDI. It is a legal termination of an international bi partite Treaty that does not specify any exact process for termination.
There is a mountain of evidence to take to the UN, CoEurope and the EU why Scotland wants to terminate the Treaty. Mainly the Kingdom of England keep breaking the treaty to their own advantage.
Laukat@1.18pm
A very good post. It highlights to me how our future is so dependant on what a bunch of Bampot Britnat Tories do over the next few months unless of course we launch the good ship independence and get off this ship of fools called the UK.
If Wales had voted to *remain* in the EU by the same margin as it voted *leave* the *UK* would still be exiting the EU even though only England acually wanted to
So what does that show then
If Wales had voted to *remain* in the EU by the same margin as it voted *leave* the *UK* would still be exiting the EU even though only England actually wanted to
So what does that show then
Dr Jim at 1:34 if Wales had voted to remain then it would have been 100% Englands choice to leave. We can only wish that Wales votes with us rather than against.
Cubby, I totally agree as I’ve been saying the same thing for years.
Hey Auld Rock glad to hear that . I just hope your not related to Rockshit. Ha ha
Some people ask but what can we do ??? I say what can we not do ???
@John Thomson
There was a joint letter went in from Carwyn Jones and Nicola Sturgeon requesting an emergency JMC meeting next week. Which is probably why Lidington wanted to single out Sturgeon, to try to break that accord, and why Sturgeon resisted.
Robert Louis 1.02 pm
Hear Hear! (if that seems too WMish then just loud sounds of approval)
Scotland sends 59 MP,s to Westminster
35 are SNP
13 are Conservative
7 are Labour
4 are Lib Dem
……………………………………..
The Scottish parliament in Edinburgh has two groups of MP,s
Those voted in by the people of Scotland
Those chosen to sit in parliament by the leader of their political party so called List MP,s no votes required
62 are SNP 59 were voted in by us the people of Scotland and 3 chosen by the SNP
31 are Conservative 7 were voted in by the people of Scotland and 24 chosen by the Conservative party
23 are Labour 3 voted in by the people and 20 chosen by the Labour Party
6 are Green Party zero voted in by the people and 6 chosen by the Green Party
5 are Lib Dem 4 voted in by the people and 1 chosen by the Lib Dem Party
1 is an independent who was previously Labour
If you only count the MP,s voted in to the Scottish parliament by us the people of Scotland it is as follows
SNP 59
Conservative 7
Labour 3
Greens zero
Lib Dems 4
Independent zero
So let’s add up the total of MP,s voted in to the Westminster parliament and the Scottish parliament by us the people of Scotland
SNP …………..35+59=94
Conservatives 13+7=20
Labour…………..7+3=10
Lib Dems……….4+4=8
Greens………….0+0=0
So there we have it the SNP have 72% of all the seats in Scotland where a vote was required by the people of Scotland
The voting system in the Scottish parliament is weird it uses the dhondt method of allocating seats and was chosen by Westminster to make sure that there are always seats given to the losers no votes required ,just to even it up for the losers because if the unionist parties happen to be the losers Westminster will wield power from Westminster and the Scottish office anyway
So if 72% of the votes in Scotland from the people of Scotland we’re for SNP surely that’s enough to declare Scottish independence isn’t it ?
Cubby at 123pm,
You make a very valid point well. This thing about needing a referendum, is as you rightly point out, somewhat misplaced. This in essence is the point I tried to make earlier. it seems that the ONLY people who hold on to that necessity are the SNP themselves. Nobody (not even the Tories) ever told them that is what they have to do, and many other countries haven’t.
The point you make however, is important, the treaty of union was singed into being by the elected representatives of Scotland. It is about time we stopped creating hurdles of our own, in order to end it.
Their is already a clear and full democratic mandate to end the union. If their are objections then it is perfectly right to suggest a new treaty, but only from the standpoint where Scotland has the freedom to accept or reject any future treaty, and with the provision that it may be ended at any time by the Scottish parliament, if it so chooses.
In relation to your point about the treaty coming into being, the situation was not even remotely democratic, almost nobody in Scotland apart from landowners, the clergy and lawyers had the vote. So the notion that these considerable democratic hurdles need traversed in order to end it are absurd.
As you point out, the abuse of democracy by London occurs almost daily, and the list of grievances is simply huge. Draw those grievances up, in a formal list, describe the abuse and trampling of the treaty of union by London, then state that Scotland’s democratically elected government can no longer sit back and allow Scotland’s future to be destroyed in this way. Oh, and ignore the Scot parliament rules saying you cannot do this, for let us never forget those very rules were drawn up BY London to suit itself (another grievance).
You see from the very second you are independent, the London rules no longer apply. Theresa May is the Prime minister of a foreign nation. Scotland is NOT catalonia, their is no constitutional clause preventing Scottish independence. None. The union treaty may be ended unilaterally by either signatory (Scotland OR England).
I do not know what the SNP are waiting for. Honestly, I simply do not know. It is like they themselves are beholden to Westminster rule, and cannot see what is, to many others, blindingly clear.
We have the pro indy majority in the Scots parliament (with more than twice the number of MSP’s as the nearest rival), we have the most MP’s from Scotland, by quite a margin, we have the most elected councillors in Scotland, and have been the democratically elected government of Scotland for over ten years. The SNP stands for independence. Their is nobody who does not know that. They all have a pro independence mandate It is time they used it.
THEN negotiate, from a position of power and leverage. If necessary turn off the big tap at grangemouth. Enough is enough. It would have the added benefit of stopping brexit in its tracks, with immediate effect.
Robert Louis,,
Well said SNP should declare Scottish independence now .
As I pointed out earlier if you ignore the List MP,s in the Scottish parliament who are not voted into the Scottish parliament by anyone and are just put there by the leaders of their political party the more Scottish people vote for your political party the fewer List MP,s you get and the fewer people vote for your political party the more List MP,s you get, who thought that one up ? Westminster of course .
If you look at the number of MP,s from Scotland voted into Westminster and the number of MPs voted into the Scottish parliament what you get are joint figures as follows
94 SNP
20 conservative
10 labour
8 Lib Dems
How dare those British nationalists tell us what to do , Scotland has voted overwhelmingly for SNP in both parliaments westminster and Scottish parliament
72% of votes went to SNP and
15% conservative
7% Labour
6% Lib Dems
Scotland has the right to choose what its future will be
SO, in standard Blackjack, a good winning deal is to get 21’s.
(unless dealer has same then return bet)
With Unionist Blackjack, their hand is showing 2 for 1 with BlackSpot!
Has the croupier (avec 4 d’s) tampered with the packs…
The table’s hand would only need 17 more furra BJ
Evenin’ Chris, cheers for your latest.
Aussi, ye don’t need tae hide yer cards frae yer pal the dodgy dealer, she already knows what yer holding. She smelt it and dealt it, it’s a stacked pack.
An ye should see all of the other rogue cards in the pack.
Get your cards on the table tory.
Robert louis@ 5.50pm
Auld Rock@3.00pm
I would be very surprised and disappointed if the SNP have not taken legal advice on this.
Cactus
You have it all sussed!
On top of that Fluffily Mundelly is just a right wee sook.
Mundell doesn’t even have a stake at or on the tory table.
Yes he is the fool and May is his wannabe Lover:
link to youtube.com
Lesson nummer 3.. vote Yes this time.
Hey Ghillie