Wings Over Scotland

Well done, Stuart.
I heard it on the car radio – enjoyed the last remarks where you stopped listening to his waffle.

Row ,row, row your boat,
Gently up a creek
admission on the radio,
but not the one you seek.

Poor Kev.

@15s in. “from now on we’re going to try and check the facts”

What a novel idea for a public broadcaster. I hope it catches on.
If only they’d thought of this earlier. We should have all noticed really. We could have suggested this to them before the referendum.
“Try and check the facts” – what a concept eh.

Kev had no success at all in disproving the First Minister’s claims. All he managed to do was demonstrate that out of the many organisations that produce oil predictions, only one or two were out of line with what the entire industry was saying. Poor, deluded guy was prepared to go on national radio with this to convince us that Nicola got her facts wrong. He didn’t succeed.

I notice he managed to shove the last word in at the end despite being told over and over to stop interrupting.

By the way, does it never occur to Kev, when he’s screaming about Scotland’s £8bn black hole that the UK has been averaging a deficit of about £120bn a year over the last few years?

Is it just me or was H***e sniggering along like Muttley in the background? Dafty. Only proves that he cannot debate and lacks respect and class.

Agreement between political blogger and dog food salesman that low oil prices are a net benefit.

The dog food salesman highlighted (again) the ~£7bn ‘black hole’ in Scotland’s budget. Then went on to say growth would take a decade to cancel this.

This recurrent Unionist claim of a ‘black hole’ really puzzles me. When does this apply?

It can’t be right now because the Scottish economy, spending and tax regime is integral with the UK’s.

It wouldn’t be after Indy because we wouldn’t be paying so much in debt repayments nor defence. Those two alone would remove half of the ‘black hole’.

It would apply in an FFA situation, but WM will never allow this to happen.

Well what do you know? 😉

Here we are being shovelled shite,kept in the dark and treated like mushrooms by MSM, BBC, STV, SKY and just about every other media source. 🙂

Suddenly we have John Beattie actually asking some SERIOUS questions about statements made a year or so ago about oil price and its affect on Scotland.

The chairman of the O.B.R. fan club gets a, not uncharacteristically, kicking from oor Stu. 😀

OOH! 😉

What a slick, and I mean SLICK, wee advertisement for Wings there Stu. 😀

Just a wee question here. 😉

The chairman of the O.B.R. fan club quotes on shore tax generated in Scotland as being £50 Billion (at 13:58 minutes). Now I may be wrong here but does Holyrood only receive around £30 Billion in pocket money, a GREAT deal LESS than that generated! I’m thinking the chairman of the O.B.R. fan club has just produced an ideal argument for Scottish independence right there. 😀

I had put this on the last thread. More relevant here.

Well done Rev! How did you continue with what sounded like either Muttley or Hissing Sid in the background sniggering like a schoolboy…take your pick they both fit that pompous buffoon.

Well Done Rev!

I still find it shocking just how biased the BBC are while they
claim to have turned over a new leaf.

Could they have looked at one statement from our First Minister, and then looked at Labour’s APD Tax that Dippity Dug is going to fund global recovery with?

Why are they giving air time to a Pedigree Chump?
I’d say its because he fights the UK/BBC OK corner so they don’t mind him being a fruit cake.

To square of the Rev being there, he founded and maintains one of Scotland’s most influential web sites, and operates in a very professional even handed manner who all claims made are supported by the appropriate links.

The Chump Blogger and Reporter seemed to let the OBR’s projection adjustment from £32 Million to £2 million, and their statement to the effect that they were rubbish at projections, go over their heads.

That shower of incompetents adjust their forecasts with great frequency, but I can’t recall them getting anything right.
We could deliver their accuracy with a blindfold and a pin.

The Pedigree Chump is completely Barking Made and should take time to paws his campaign as he has just been neutered.

So if the oil price goes down Scotland benefits, if the oil price goes up Scotland benefits, what a curse it is to be burdened with the black stuff… in the mind of a Yoon that is.

Nice one Rev Stu.

Well done Stu. Heard it on the car radio, BUM did not expect you to have facts and figures to hand, and to know what you were talking about. Your radio career might have just ended ‘they don’t like it up em’

You did fine Stu and managed to get your point in
But here’s the BUT
You’re not used to public speaking and that can cause problems even if you’re expert on what you’re talking about
eg: Jackie Baille talks pish but confident sounding
Gordon Brewer will interrupt his victims mercilessly to make himself look good irrespective of facts

There are ways to get around this,
Before you are put in the position of public speaking find yourself a corner somewhere and shout at the top of your voice for a couple of minutes a bit like the Kings Speech stuff give yourself a good shake and it helps take out the nervous energy and makes it easier to control the rhythm of your speech (50 years of being in the entertainment business)

On the Telly or Radio as you know it’s a bloodbath although I have to say John Beattie was as fair as he could be
The other guy was an overconfident Dick and the sniggering shit showed him up for that

You write great, and I for one am over the moon that you do the work you do so we don’t have to
This is in no way a critique of your performance only a tip
that may come in useful for next time of which I hope there are more (Good Job)

Dash and fiddlesticks. Ah missed it.

Their main yoonomics man, a childish fucking moron.

A hamster man. 🙂

I got as far as 10min 40sec and couldn’t take any more of that ignorant whatsisname or Beatties fake pish on interruptions.

If Beattie & Co were serious about ignorant bastards interrupting they could easily use the mic cut-off facility or tell the moron to shut his geggie or he’s oot.

Well done CAMPBELL for leading by example!

BTW, Beattie should let Andrew Neil know that the BBC are now going to challenge figures quoted by politicians. Maybe Beattie should get Ian Murray into the studio, invite Neil along, and both could have a bash at getting sense out of Murray’s mince.

And get the Rev in on that one also. Big supply of pickled onion savoury’s and copious amounts of tea at the ready…BRING IT ON!

Well done Rev. I liked your style and your knowledge.

The other guy came over as a prat!

Wings 1 Ignorant Blogger 0

In fairness to John Beattie he is at least trying to bring some debate and balance.

However, will the BBC in London actually allow this madness to continue?

If “fact check” does continue then the Labour Party manifesto WILL a laughing stock.

As others have commented, surely the BBC, of all organisations, should “fact check” as a matter of course. I would be delighted if they provided balance in EVERY article they broadcast or published.

What a smug wee man that Kev guy is.

I mean he clearly believes Scotland would be Greece w/o the rUK propping us up. Which begs the question why would you locate and invest in your own business in a place where you had no faith in the economy?
Seems pretty daft.

To be perfectly honest I thought JOHN BEATTIE was quite fair, as far as the discussion itself was concerned.

Trying to pretend to be a neutral listener, I thought the Rev was rattled to start with perhaps because of the wrong name, which I’m sure was totally accidental. Second half, Fraser of Allander, to the Rev.

So 1 set each?

Not sure. Rev made the point about oil price, as opposed to revenues in that first half, and that’s one that needs to be hammered home. Nobody predicted the huge drop in oil price, nobody. Revenues depend on government policies, and how much oil is extracted, and that depends on oil price, but also incentives, and not just short term. The UK Gov for instance has reluctantly given some incentives to the oil industry, and that decreases revenue short-term, as in now.

Haig also interrupted a few times and had a snot attack at others, I don’t think that would come across too well. Tissue, please. He also comes across as patronising, with nothing to be patronising about.

I’d say 2-1, to the Rev.

Flower of Scotland says:
25 January, 2016 at 3:20 pm

Well done Rev. I liked your style and your knowledge.

The other guy came over as a prat!

Not only is the Chairman of the O.B.R. fan club a prat but he is also condescending as well.

This is what Stu tweeted some 3 hours ago. 😀

“He seemed very condescending”, says lady in BBC Bath studio, unprompted, of K***n H***e.

Tuned-out, aye, same here. A very boring man. Imagine getting cornered by him in the pub? 🙁

Come to think of it, the whole BTUKOK ‘movement’ is pretty much bereft of anyone with charisma – that should not, of course, have any bearing on the level of respect they deserve, but it’s quite striking that a relatively large group of people contains so many greeting-faced whingers and/or boring fuds.

(Yeah, okay, characters like Foulkes, Murphy, Darling, Brown, Ian Smart, Jabba etc do provide a very basic form of entertainment, but they don’t do so intentionally.)

Wait a minute – is Vague Hague really a dog food salesman? (Shock, horror)

I’m not the brightest but I do have a BA(Strath) & Masters (glasgow) degree and two English teaching qualifications but I have no idea what language Muttely was speaking. It sounded English but more Alistair Darlingese or quite close to Scotty speak. Did he mention matter-anti-matter and dilithium crystals because like Stu, I tuned out too. The BBC in Scotland are actually stating that they are going to try and scrutinise and be fair. As opposed to what?

Oil price. This year, next year. Not really that important in the context of independence over the years and decades ahead. But obviously it is to Westminster. They just can’t publicly accept that Scotland has a win/win situation regarding oil.

Why is Westminster so desperate to hang onto its power over Scotland, especially it’s oil? In 2014 it was estimated that 20 billion barrels remain in the North Sea. At $50 a barrel that’s $1 trillion. The oil industry seems confident that there is more oil offshore in the west of Scotland. According to Oil Industry News, ‘The West Coast alone could provide oil and gas for at least 100 years with an estimated value of more than £1 trillion.’

When one of their own civil servants (McCrone) produces a report that forecasts something that Westminster doesn’t like or want generally known, it locks the report away for 30 years. In the meantime Westminster talks down how much oil is in the North Sea. When I say talk down I mean lies about. Over and over.

Proven liars that have also almost completely wrecked the real UK economy over the past 50 years. Why anyone in Scotland would want more of the same economic incompetence is beyond me.

Yes Gideon’s OBR has generally been accused of being over optimistic on the UK economy as a whole but as that suits the government there is perhaps no surprise there.

However, specifically on oil price they were predicting a drop to $80 a barrel which should have manifested itself during the indy campaign when everyone else was predicting $100+, the oil did stay at $100+ and the OBR ‘prediction’ was later retro-altered. They were demonstrably pessimistic on oil at that time, a pessimism which was opposite to the rest of their UK economy assessment. They have not always been optimistic on oil price at all.

The OBR’s neutrality has, of course, been called into question by former Chancellor Darling and many others.

TBF they did predict a sharp fall in oil price for the end of 2014 onwards but the very unique nature of that prediction’s success makes you suspicious as to what insider knowledge they possessed because most of the drop has been caused by political posturing rather than genuine supply/demand balancing.

I reckon the point of all that is “shit sticks”.

Many listeners won’t take in all the facts and figures, they’ll have heard Nicola painted as a possible liar. Regardless of the detail of what was said.

All part of the recent SLab tactic to tarnish the FM’s reputation.

Going for the man, not the ball.

SNP x 2

You should have asked the dog food salesman if oil is so unimportant then why doesn’t westminster devolve it to Holyrood.

Och well done Rev, he did not expect such a good opposition that is why he went overboard to try and get his across. A pillock with a mouth.

ref the £7.5mil black hole, Scotland would quickly make that up, while we would still be getting something from oil, we would not be paying for Trident, fast trains in England, the houses of Parliament, and a myriad of other infrastructure in mainly the South East of England.

AND, we would not be getting sucked dry by Westminster in the many ways they fiddle things.
AND, they take no account that we would do things different than they do, that would save a fortune alone.
No illegal wars for example. There will be more, we have yet to uncover.

I notice, one or two recent posters have mentioned the lack of Scottish, or Scottish-trained North Sea workers.

When the North Sea was opening-up and expanding, the Scottish coal industry was contracting, as was Scottish ship-building and heavy industry in general. A lot of trained Coal Board engineers from around here in East Ayrshire, for instance, switched seamlessly to working off-shore.

These guys are now either retired, or approaching retirement age, but, with the closing-down of the heavy industry sector in Scotland, the trained engineers, used to working in difficult conditions, are not coming through in Scotland to replace them; thus, English-trained guys are getting the off-shore jobs.

Yet another Union dividend of the Blessed Margaret’s economic policies, and those of her disciples who have followed her into government at Westminster.

Hague did himself no favours. I found his puerile, supercilious sniggering as irritating as it was condescending – hopefully all the others listeners did too.

Only caught first few minutes on the car radio before I had to attend an appointment with the ‘Fang Mechanic’, AKA, the dentist but what I heard sounded like you were talking to an empty vessel, you know the one that makes a lot of noise cnstant interuptions etc. What a deluded clown.

Auld Rock

What the Unionist media and commentators always omit to tell us is, that an independent Scotland would have 100% of oil tax revenues, even at a lower oil price, as opposed to the 0% we get at present, regardless of how high or low the price of oil is.

A serious debate is spoilt by Hague and his constant intentional audible sniggers while Stuart is quoting figures re his references ( i.e. the correct ones), it is sooooo obvious that Hague is trying to impress on the listeners a lack of credibility in what Stuart is saying by doing this.

However I think if you listen , and try to be objective, hard I know with Hague , it backfires on Hague and actually it is he who loses credibility through this infantile behavior.

Also personal snide remarks re ‘Maths not being Stuart’s strong point’ is also detrimental to the debate and exposes hague as being petty and very much someone with an agenda.

This performance by Hague does nothing other than detract from the points he tries but fails to make and to the listener it actually makes Hague very irritating and a smart arse.

Does this type of behavior not personify SNPBAD fanatics like Hague and the other usual suspects .

From the perspective of a ‘No’ voter listening in to Hague’s performance, or lack of , it surely reinforces the negativity ‘Yes’ voters say is endemic in the Yoon mentality.

Stuart’s performance was calm , respectful ( no interruptions unlike Hague ) and I think to the listener he was far more credible by his professional manner on this serious subject.

If Hague wants levity he need look no further than SLAB’s policies and the quality, sorry lack of quality, of some, sorry majority of their MSP’s , now that is something worth sniggering about.

Once the Holyrood election is over in May the SNP should call Westminster’s bluff claim that oil and gas us burden upon Scotland, and once again demand that responsibility for Scotland’s oil and gas resources be devolved to Holyrood so that it can be properly looked after for the good of the people of Scotland.

Yes.. We need new terminology.

Black holes don’t exist within our ‘reality’.

A ‘financial black hole’ is a DEFICIT, with more being sucked in than can be afforded.

The UK has a ‘Super-massive deficit’ around which Scotland orbits within its own unique reality.

If we escape the ‘Supermassive UK debt’ the invisible forces will release Scotland from its gravity.

We will look on as the UK EATS ITSELF.

@Big Jock says: 25 January, 2016 at 2:25 pm:

” … When it does go back up and they start exploring new fields. They will say it’s too expensive and it’s running out anyway.”

Well, Big Jock, I’m no economist and I’m not even great manipulating the actual arithmetic, (I lost a segment of my early learning due to a serious childhood illness).

I can, though, see the methods behind the calculations very clearly and what I’ve posted on Wings needs no complicated figures to understand.

Without Scotland’s independence neither the price of oil nor the revenue earned from it will make a pennyworth of difference. The reason being that Scotland gets none of the revenues earned by oil & gas extraction. Scotland doesn’t even get the revenues earned from servicing the oil industry and not just those earned from Scotland but throughout the World.

Even most of the income tax and business taxes associated with oil & gas extraction does not accrue to the Scottish budget as the company head offices and the workers earnings are dealt with from offices situated outwith Scotland.

Much of those workers earnings also goes home with the foreign workers when their onshore/offshore stint on the rigs sees them go home taking their earnings with them.

It is two basic facts that Scotland’s government’s sole income is from the Scottish Block Grant and oil & gas Revenues are claimed as from Extra-regio-territory that is claimed as UK income.

Furthermore, no other revenues collected in Scotland go to the Scottish Government – it all goes to HM Treasury. The only exceptions being local taxes levied by local authorities such as business rates on office buildings, warehouses and machinery/plant buildings but that goes to the local councils – not the SG.

The stark truth that is never mentioned by the state propaganda wing is that without Scotland’s independence it is Westminster that gets the revenue and Westminster that thus has the black holes when the revenue shrinks.

Everything else is pie in the sky statistics and manipulated bullshit statistics published to decieve.

thus, English-trained guys are getting the off-shore jobs

Not only that socrates they are making sure that only English get the job beside them.
It also works in practice with overseas projects where there is a requirement for expats.

Of course, there is always a ‘crystal ball’..throw that into the mix and we.have plain and simple GAMBLING.

As a yes-voting SNP member I thought Haig came out on top here. Though his behaviour was disingenuous it will be met with as much positive feeling on the no side as the “tuned out” comment was here. The fact that low oil price benefits the economy but not to the degree that it displaces oil revenue is significant. If one believes that everything in the world supports his point of view then it doesn’t suggest that point of view is very well balanced. On balance we would much prefer that a significant material resource wasn’t of vanishingly small value, regardless how that plays into the independence debate. Anyone hoping oil price goes lower? No – me neither.

You can chase the figures around all you like & try to make them dance to your tune (ask Putin how that one is going – $60/barrel+ forecast for all of 2016 less than 3 months ago) but until you have the money in the bank its all bullshit anyway.

Fortunately Scotland is in a position where oil is not the future (it might fund the future though) as we have 5000 miles of sod all between the West Coast & Greenland/North America. Offshore wind & reliable tidal power will continue to see Scotland as a net exporter of that most precious & tradable commodity – energy.

As far as the interview went – I was frankly utterly gobsmacked that someone from the BBC wanted to “fact-check” anything to do with the SNP 🙂

I think you were just right at the edge of “BBC broadcast acceptability” so well done for getting a couple of digs in (dogfood salesman :D) & also well done for not interrupting. I think they’re probably running out of excuses not to have you on other discussions 😉

If I may be allowed then to repeat my previous post in another thread …

You can almost imagine the entire BBC Radio Shortbread team frantically wanking each other off in gleeful excitement as soon as the price of oil fell below $50 per barrel.

Yet, they stubbornly refuse to recognise the massive economic benefit to every consumer of energy: homeowners, tenants, landlords, distributors, hauliers, moving companies, manufacturers, traders, farmers, fishermen, foresters, resellers etc.

Every single one of them will have extra money now, that they did not forecast even six months ago. That money will be used to save for a rainy day, pay down debts, invest in capital projects, invest in financial instruments, hire staff, pay bonuses, make improvements in their businesses, grow revenues & so on.

Who are these people that might benefit? Only the vast majority of us who live & work in Scotland of course yet whose only experience of oil exploration might have been looking for petrol station near Portree that was open on a Sunday.

The Treasury meanwhile, will enjoy an increase in tax receipts from rising incomes, capital expenses & from increases in general economic activity.

But BBC Radio Shortbread is having none of that. In their blinkered, BritNat worldview, this oil price collapse is a disaster & evidence enough that Scotland must remain shackled to a generous population all the way from Berwick-upon-Tweed to Truro.

Stuart you are pathetic as you by your express agreement towards the end of the radio interview agreed with Kevin Hague’s main point that by independence, Scotland would be worse off than England after ten years or whatever. No wonder you “tuned out” at that point, to use your own words in the broadcast.

Like you Robert P. I prefer to see ‘actual’ patterns from history, contextualise them, and ‘project typical behaviours’ WITHOUT A CALCULATOR.

Meanwhile Westminster’s debt continues to spiral out of control – out of projection even. The so-called united kingdom cannot afford to continue – at least according to unionist argument[!].

Personally speaking,I am well past the stage of worrying what the price of oil was ,is, or may be. England can have it as far as I am concerned.

This country will still survive and thrive. Of that I am certain.

Oil has been a curse since the first drop was extracted,and I am sure the Scotgish people would diversify as required.

Not being on Facebook or Twitter myself, I have taken to checking-out the Rev’s Twitter feed.

Lots of tweets and re-tweets with plays on the name of various dog foods, but, as yet, nobody has used the obvious one: the dog food salesman doesn’t half spout tripe!!

Seems to me that even when the oil price was much higher there were those in the no camp going on about oil prices,and I think that they would even if it was $200 a barrel. Scotland sees none of it under the union,so even if it was $10 a barrel under independence,it is still more than we get now. There are,after all,only five million or so of us.

The blogger seems to think that Scotland has no industries outside of oil that contribute to UK taxes.

He clearly states that an £8 billion fall in oil revenues would be absolute at the national level, i.e. they would not be offset in any way whatsoever.

It’s as if the UK is immune to economic downturns. If Scotland’s oil revenues fall, England magically produces more tax and shares it with Scotland. Scotland is incapable of dealing with, and reacting to, downturns.

The UK really is a land of milk and honey.

It’s the classic unionist endless subsidy model.

I’d never heard of Kevin Hague until today. Ignorance is bliss. I switched off every time his droning voice began. He was clearly reading off from a handy fact sheet.

I thought Stu came over as forthright and honest. The ‘Chappie’ chappie came over as quite the opposite. Insufferable smug & conceited was my impression. As for his Dick Dastardly & Muttley ‘heeheehee’s? Well, what a complete tit.

BTW, a close friend of mine knows Beattie lang syne, and says he is a complete a..eho.. & thick as mince. Very telling on Beattie’s fauxpas mis-calling you Cameron. Beattie immediately blames someone else, not himself. Another tit, clearly.

You said on twitter you only had 45 mins preparation time for this BBC interview. I would hazard ‘Chappie’ was given more time and seemed to be reading out an alleged ‘factsheet’. That was very telling when Beattie said to Hague, ‘We have to give HIM the chance’ or words to those effects. the whole impression I received from that comment and tone was that Beattie & Chappie had rehearsed their game well in advance and you were definitely the ‘away’ team to their home side.

Didn’t Beattie leave a young wife and three wee kids while ‘enjoying’ his rugby fame lifestyle? That sounds like a complete d..k, too.

Just got to thinking about the price of oil! Why are the Tory’s obsessed with fracking and unconventional oil, when it is so much more expensive to produce? Do they think it might go up in price?

Pedigree chump brings knife to gunfight,commits Hari-Kari.

His narrow minded argument was skilfully de-bunked,(sometimes less is more),with the miminum of prompting he agreed the FM was correct…..blindingly obvious.

The dogs are barking,…..the masters of the hounds are not pleased,(away team snatches defeat from the jaws of victory,spectacular last minute own goal)

Result

Thanks Rev 😉

What income does Scotland get from the Oil Industry? Direct – Zero / Indirect – marginal local spending hot spot around Aberdeen.

What income does Scotland get from a low Oil price – A great deal of growth across several industries who benefit from low transportation cost.

However the REAL prize is Independence when we receive the direct taxation of the Oil & Gas Industry to put in a fund when the price is high to buffer the low periods PLUS we still keep the upside of low oil price in the slump periods for Oil.

Remember just how big our fund would be at present had the truth been told by McCrone and Scotland had gained Independence 30 plus years ago. Never forget where our children’s inheritance has been spent and who spent it.

If Scotland raises £50 billion, and gets back £30 billion; where’s the black hole?
Or am I missing something?

@Ali says: 25 January, 2016 at 5:06 pm:

“As a yes-voting SNP member I thought Haig came out on top here.”

Whit!

“Though his behaviour was disingenuous it will be met with as much positive feeling on the no side as the “tuned out” comment was here. The fact that low oil price benefits the economy but not to the degree that it displaces oil revenue is significant.”

How so?

Your bland statement that, “The fact that low oil price benefits the economy”, is a dead giveaway, Ali.

Fact is that the economy it benefits directly is that of the United Kingdom Treasury for the entire revenues from all oil & gas in the territorial waters of Scotland goes directly into the United Kingdom Treasury and not a bent penny comes directly to the Scottish Government.

Thus the benefit, or otherwise, from the oil and gas industry accrues to Scotland from the service companies actually based in Scotland and even that does not accrue to the Scottish Government but to the local authorities for even the company taxes are taken by the UK Treasury.

Even the proportion of workers actually based in Scotland is much overshadowed by workers from outwith Scotland. Also, what Peter Bell has posted is smack on the button.

Don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve bought my last tin of Pedigree Chum.

Well done Stu.

Difficult gig and all that sniggering didnae hep.

Very juvenile whilst you were professional.

Hats off for doing it and hats off for John Beattie for getting you on. About time

You missed a bit of an open goal there Stu. Our favourite dog food salesmen made a bit of a slip up when he was talking about revenue.

Anyone who has done 1st year economics at Uni will know that “price” is arrived at by the combination of demand and supply. So his witterings about the total revenue from supply makes little sense because it is not constant; so any figures from OBR when the got the rest completely wrong would be layering of one error on another.

Man, I am sick and fed up with unionists telling Scotland we are just too poor, we are subsidised etc. Do they have any idea how stupid they sound.

Scotland currently gets NO OIL REVENUE, as it all goes to George Osborne in London, so the price is of little importance, apart from the local impact on oil jobs etc. Without the oil, Scotland’s GDP per capita is 99% of that of the UK. Scotland has a very strong diverse economy, and is not dependent upon oil, or the oil price. Any unionist telling you otherwise, is a liar.

As regards the strange English sounding person on the recording above, he just doesn’t come across well.

Wow. Pet Shop Boy is actually even more smug and insufferable that I could possibly have imagined. Good job Stu.

Stu, when did you get the nod from them to appear on the show and did they brief you on the subject matter. Did you know kevverage was going on too?

I applaud the Rev for going live on air and standing his ground, but I don’t think either party covered themselves in glory during this interview.

For every juvenile snigger, you had an equally juvenile “dog food” insult from the other side.

It undermined the credibility of both sides.

Scotland is very fortunate to have a lot of very clever and articulate people fighting for our independence. Not to mention their humour. I am not going to try and mention them individually because there are plenty of them and I don’t want to miss anyone out. My gratitude to you one and all,
all you sincere wingers Thank you, you make me a very proud and humble Scot. FREEDOM!

Tory tweetsters are oddly silent on kevrage’s too small, stupid, poor UKOK sniggering today. Not even my Slovene girlfriend and greatest kevrage fanboy ever’s said anything at all.

link to twitter.com

Bettertogether toryboys are an odd crew, red or blue.

Rev. Stuart, Heard it live, well done. Why did Big John not give you your title. Bit rude, but more than made up on his part by getting you on his show……

C’mon the Rev.

thought you did well Rev Stu, especially at such short notice.

Apart from losing oil revenues, Scotland may be stung for a contribution to a £6-7 billion makeover of westminster palace plus a few million for Buckingham palace. Tommy Sheppard was shocked when he heard the news.

I suggest taking advantage of EVEL and saying it’s time for EPEP – English pounds for English palaces

link to eurofree3.wordpress.com

UK raises £515Billion. Scotland raises £54Billion. Take £54Billion from £515Billion= £461Billiin. Divide £461Billiin by 11 = £42Billion. Scotland raises £10Billion more pro rata.

The rest of the UK borrows £90Billion more. Estimated to fall to £78Billion the current year – (April)

Scotland pays £4Billion of the rest of the UK debt. Scotlandgetsback £30Billion + £16Bilion UK pension/benefits. £4Billion Defence. Any deficit is caused by Westmnster policies. Trident/illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. HMRC is not fit for purpose.

Westminster has illegally and secretly taken the equivalent of £Billions from Scotland. Oil tax is 60%. With the fall in oil prices it should be 20%. Thousands of people would not be losing their jobs. The unemployment figures would be lower in Scotland.

Trident will cost Scotland £Billion a year. Scottish economy is still doing well with lower Oil prices. Scotland would be £10Billion a year better off Independent. £1Billion Trident, £4Billion on debts not borrowed or spent in Scotland, a tax on ‘loss leading drink – £1Billion, cut Oil tax, tax evasion etc.

The problem with BBC Scotland, is that it’s mostly about like minded unionists talking to themselves in a studio. The exception being John Beattie.

Shareen in particular has Clegg every Saturday. Along with Siobhan Sinnet one of the 10% of Arty folk who voted no. Katy posh Surrey Daily Mail..and the rest.

They never disagree cause they are all unionists. They only talk to people who agree with them,and bully those that don’t. They all decided collectively one day that devolving broadcasting to their country was the worst idea since Scotland set up the Darien scheme. In other words don’t be ridiculous…. Regulate the media in Scotland… What are these Nats thinking! That Sinnet women really annoys me with her plumby accent. The BBC arts expert that wants arts and cinema run from London.

There are many on the Unionist side, who sit in positions of power and influence, know the truth, and yet, will lie through their teeth to protect what they perceive is the greatest nation in the world, and which all came to prominence, thanks to the Union of 1707.

I have no doubt, that some would even sell their mothers to the devil if it meant protecting ‘Great Britain’. And yet, as this article shows, glimpses of the truth shine through now and again.

Well, it’s another myth blown away, and another golden bullet for the ‘Yes’ side.

AND were well above other projections”

That, however, is bollocks. Given repeated opportunities, Needy Kev was unable to produce any figures proving that point other than the OBR’s, which were an extreme outlier compared to other forecasts.

And yet Stuart during the show you had no other actual figures to offer up from other sources? It’s so much easier afterwards to say something else but for the tiny fraction of the population who (a)listened to this show and (b) don’t (like the rest of us nutters) spend our time in these pointless bouts of whatabouterry probably thought you had no answers (but would have definitely been put off by the laughing and the dog food salesman comments)

Let’s face it, even if the White Paper had the exact same revenue projections they would still be out by over £2 billion – there’s no winners here.

Please be patient with me………….

If Scotland pre-referendum was gaining 10% of oil revenues back from uk gov, say $10 per barrel when the price was $100, how can $30 pb when the price is $30 lead to a black hole?

Typing about oil revenues makes one think of Aberdeen.

And mentioning Aberdeen… quite a number of Wingers will be meeting at the Archibald Simpson in Aberdeen at 7pm, this coming Saturday, for the first ‘Wings Over Aberdeen’ get-together.

If you want more info, browse ‘off-topic’ and if you’re gonna be there and want a named souvenir badge, stick a post in ‘Quarantine’.

link to wingsoverscotland.com

Has anyone suggested to the John Beattie programme that they “fact check” Ian Murray’so unchallenged claim that increasing the top rate of tax in Scotland by 5 pence would raise £150 million.

Surely an easy fact to check – a wee phone call to HMRC should clarify.

Projections.. forecasts… whose projections were more wrong and whose were less wrong…

You could sit me down in a room with dozens of experts in the field and they could not convince me that having large reserves of oil and gas in our waters is anything but a blessing for the long term for Scotland.

Kevin talks about the tax revenues in isolation (and petulantly berates Stuart for talking about the oil price in isolation) as if the two were completely unrelated. In his world the tax revenues to the treasury is what pays for public services. I do not get the feeling he considers there are any other revenues flowing into the treasury.

No corporation tax, vat, income tax, stamp duty from house sales in Aberdeen… no money coming in from all the other services and all the other personnel involved in the oil and gas sectors. It is a pretty narrow minded view of the industry.

We get the odd big job up in Aberdeen – amazingly punting a bit of flooring can generate revenue for the exchequer as a direct result of that troublesome black stuff coming out of the North Sea.

Thank god for those broad shoulders pooling and sharing- the industry would only be safe with those broad fucking shoulders of the UK. Well that turned out to be a load of shit, didn’t it!

And Kevin bought the message hook line and sinker- not only that he convinced others that the big lie, that Scotland is useless and only Westminster can save us from our uselessness, and that we are uniquely unable to function as an independent country.

The way Kevin’s pals in Better Together put it, you’d think on day 1 of indy drivers would get in the passenger side of their cars and start trying to work out where the wheel is. Everyone would be using gift vouchers and travellers cheques instead of a common currency. Folk would try and shake hands but miss. Door handles would be pulled when they should be pushed and vice versa.

And that oil, that tricky bleedin oil would give us the largest deficit in the western world, perhaps even the entire world – we would lose money hand over fist by keeping all the revenues for ourselves.

Just to sate my curiosity I read the actual White Paper today.

I cannot get a handle on what the Unionists are clinging on to about the Paper. I think it is all baloney.

The important thing is that the Paper at the end answers questions, and makes it very clear in questions 19 and 20 that oil is not an important essential to the economy.

What the paper does make clear is that oil revenues would allow EXTRA options,on top of those planned. It looks to me as if this oil nonsense is actually insignificant in relation to the whole independence process.

The price of oil is actually irrelevant for any purpose planned ,but seems to be the basis of the Unionist arguement why Scotland would not survive. What nonsense.

@heedtracker I’m willing to bet that the only people who use OBR figures are politicians and let’s face it politicians only present numbers, it’s real companies that produce the numbers by extracting and selling oil.

It does amaze me however that there are still so many comments on here from perplexed contributors who seem to have no concept of deficits, deficit gaps, black holes etc., what do they do in their spare time?

Oh well, the 2014-2015 GERS report will be out in a few weeks so we can have our annual round of Robert Peffers telling us “it’s pish” and Dave McEwan Hill desperately pleading that we MUST ignore the GERS report as it’s irrelevant to the economic miracle of an iScotland.

Any “projections” you’d care to offer on how gigantic the black hole will be? I’m betting “not as big as everyone thinks” as I’m pretty sure any loss is apportioned oil revenue will be offset by spending cuts imposed by a healthy dose of UKOKNess.

Well done Stew,
I think we’d all agree that an hour or two to get into a frame of mind, in order to counter ANY suggestion,point, or querie put to you, cannot be easy, as you’d be aware that making a point is very time limiting.
As for big John Beatie, I have always had time for him, I do think that he is one of the very few who does believe in being neutral, (whilst on air anyway), plus the fact that he is an ex rugby player, that’s got to stand him in good stead eh?.

It’s probably worth mentioning that the PetPlanet businesses are small fry compared to Endura clothing. For those that don’t know; it is an extremely successful brand with distribution worldwide of high quality and huge margin products. Our man is a significant shareholder and non-exec directory.

Anyway, Endura also made a statement about the EU:
link to endurasport.com

To give you an example; an Endura MT500 rain jacket used by mountain bikers is around £170. I’ve probably bought a couple of grands worth of their kit – and that’s me who used to get some kit for free (me being a superstar rider and all that).

In Dec `11 the BBC published an account of a Treasury Select Committee hearing the subject being the grilling of Robert Chote head of OBR and its figures for future economic growth.
OBR was accused of “guessing“, and,“If you were so wrong in March how do we know you are right now? You are paid to forecast the future. This is not very good is it?“
Conservative MP David Ruffley said the body had got its forecasts “terribly wrong“.
And Pat McFadden, a former Labour cabinet minister questioned what the OBR was for. He added “these are drastic changes , these are not minimal changes, if you got it so wrong in a matter of months that time , why should we believe anything you say this time“.
Another MP suggested its (OBR) calculations were based on “guesswork“.
No doubt that arrogant twit on the radio would happily have OBR handle his finances for the next 10 years.
Aye right.

@crazycat

I miss Tinto chiel as well. Hoping he’s ok.

Gerry Burns says:
25 January, 2016 at 2:24 pm
@15s in. “from now on we’re going to try and check the facts”
and the irony, so obviously lost on him. )

Am I wrong or is it really this simple. Let’s use algebra instead of guesswork numbers.

Tax revenue from North Sea Oil = X to HMRC

Scotland’s share as part of “one nation” UK = X/12

Scotland’s share as an independent country = X

I see no “Black Hole”, I see a big bonus.

No matter what X is Scotland ends up 12 times better off if we are Independent. Could Kevin do the arithmetic and tell me I am wrong?

They are having a laugh and I think we are falling for it. Not to mention the 75% from Petrol and Diesel sales.