Toga party
Posted on
July 02, 2016 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Outstanding.
Well done Chris-most apt
Don’t know about a toga party, it’s looking more like a conga line as the days pass & the line of backstabbers gets longer.
Keep it up WM-you’re all doing a fine job of demonstrating how NOT to run the UK
poor old brittannia always gets it from behind with these lot
ps.I think we should encourage some of our trolls as they get us to source the data to overcome their arguments and stimulates debate
Conga!
Chris = )
That conga of betrayal is bound to get longer. Isn’t Gove already on his way out?
Tragic!
Demolishing themselves. Typical Tories politician. Imbeciles They care more about the bottom line than about other people. They would rather muck up the economy and people’s lives up. Bit like Colbyn and Trade Union leaders – the money men – who do not support the EU. While the majority of people in the UK do support the EU.
Cameron an extremely bad leader, mucked the whole EU vote up. Not letting EU citizens resident vote. Cameron in totally incompetent. Just like the Trade Union leadership. Pulling the strings in Labour membership.
The RMT leaders are causing political trouble in Scotland with unnecessary strikes trying to muck up the Scottish economy for political reasons. To try and damage the SNP administration. The Scottish Gov is investing £Millions in their industry and they are trying to muck it up with totally unnecessary strikes damaging the economy and their jobs because they support the incompetent Labour Party.
Imbeciles.
Cameron helping his Royal cousins to commemorate the 1WW which the British/European families caused. They should be apologising for what their relatives did and the part they played in causing it. The ‘divine right to rule’ Killing and maiming million of innocent people worldwide. Inbreds. Queen Victoria’s relatives and grandson’s. Cousins married cousins, their parents were cousins.
They have learnt nothing and are despicable people that should be held to account. They are troughing, mis spending public money while sanctioning and starving vulnerable people to death. Trident/illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Breaking the Law and not enforcing the Law for them and their associates. The corrupt establishment mucking up the State. Trying to head off any threat to their power and corruption.
With a bit of luck Scotland will soon be shot of them. To have a happier, fairer more prosper equal country in the EU. Like other EU States. Helping each other out to try and prevent war and starvation, and promote peace, stability and equality in the world. Gie’s peace Westminster crooked, lying control freaks and criminals.
So thats whit the dey in old Londiniam for entertainment ,nae public enquiries afterwards lol.
No enough blood Chris , but great toon as usual.
The revolution will not be papyrised.
Man that’s good,brilliant,really.
Class Chris,pure class.
🙂
Brilliant Chris.
Et tu Camus
Et tu Borus
Et tu Govus
Excellent cartoon – what does seem to have emerged, is that the most machiavellian of them all is Gove. He played the mild mannered thinker to Boris’ boisterous buffoon during the referendum. Consistently denied he wanted to be PM, and then knifed Boris in the back at the last minute.
These are the kind of people Ruth Davidson wants Scots to be ruled by. Corrupt and lower than snakes.
Meanwhile, some sectors of the media, including SKY news are trying to spin that, ‘you know, Brexit doesn’t seem to have been very damaging, the pound is not falling so fast, the FTSE has recovered’ etc.. etc.. Of course all the while ignoring the glaring FACT that we haven’t actually started to leave the EU yet.
For the first time in my life, I am genuinely worried about what will be done to Scotland and Scotland’s people, economy and wellbeing, if we get dragged out the EU. It will be soooo damaging.
I don’t care how we do it, but we MUST keep Scotland within the EU. Still angry about this, and getting seriously p*ssed off by our supposed ‘Scottish’ media.
Just today, one supposed ‘major’ paper has a total nonsense story, with the headline ‘Scotland could be a Greece without the sun’ (if independent). What a craven, Scotland hating bunch behind that paper. Does not one of them give a sh*t about the country they and their kids live in???? Have they no self respect?
link to archive.is
I will rejoice the day the so-called ‘journalists’ who ran such a stupid hateful, xenophobic, offensive, anti-Scotland piece of nonsense, lose their jobs. It is a hateful, shameful joke of a story, based upon utter rubbish by a Tory group.
Maybe the Herald’s craven, snivelling so-called ‘journalists’ should just choose to move to England today, since they obviously hate Scotland so much. Why run such a stupid, hateful story? Why Herald? Why?
The Herald NEEDS to apologise.
@ Guardian – Jonathan Freedland
Brilliant!
I think Ronnie is correct, though, and the line of backstabbers will continue to lengthen into a conga line as others tag onto the end.
Perhaps a musical setting might be in order :-
link to youtube.com
At Robert Louis
All taken from a Thatcher inspired “think tank”
Unfortunately we although we know this is despicable bunkum it’s the headline and contents of the article which does the damage if the people reading take all this in good faith.
Never any balanced articles on how Scotland can prosper and be an economic power within Europe as most of on here know.
Scotland is a country that will do immensely well on its own and in Europe and the people in power for in the UK know this but we are too valuable to them especially now the UK is on its own and heading out of the EU.
The Scottish Gov should introduce the Leveson verdict to hold the MSM in Scotland to account. At least pay for their lies and misleading misinformation. Or maybe just leave the corrupt Press to it’s own demise. As the gutter Press sinks to the bottom and snuffs itself out. Good riddance. Incompent greedy low lives.
Thank you Rev Stu and Co for all you do. Thanks a Billion. Thanks forever again.
Thanks Nicola, Alex and Co and the SNP for all you do for Scotland. Thanks a Billion for your efforts to protect the vulnerable and those with no voice.
Thanks a Billion for helping keeping Scotland sane.
The Scottish economy has never been like Greece. It has been controlled by Westminster control freaks who have tried to take it down, with secret lies and deceit. Scotland has always been In surplus – massive surplus. The Westminster Gov has secretly and illegally taken it. They tried to keep it secret for over thirty years. The books and accounts are there to prove what they did. The ‘secret’ papers released. After thirty years.
They are still doing it today. Trying to ruin the Scottish economy with total incompetence and lies. Trying to get away with it and bluff their way out. They wouldn’t.
England/Wales and NI have been like Greece because of the total mismanagement of the Westminster crooked, lazy, greedy, incompetent lying war criminal Unionist politicians, who have deluded the people. There is definitely something wrong with the English education system. 2nd rate liars buying 1st class Oxford degrees.Financed by public funding 200 to 1. A corrupt unequal scheme.
Surely Brittannia is not an innocent bystander here. The trident needs a lot more prongs for all the countries and peoples that have been slaughtered in our names.
Bloody. Hell.
Brilliant.
Backstabbing of course,the act of Cowards!
Great Toon Chris:-)
Liked this a lot, but an anonymous hand with descending dagger on the far right might have given us a little hope!
Scotland is more like the prosperous EU countries than the rest of the UK. One of the oldest European countries which has had a major benefit on the rest of the Democratic world.
Scotland, ‘the land of invention’. Scottish education system and invention has changed the world for the better. TV, tele- telecommunication – the Internet. Medical science etc. Scottish invention shaped the modern world. The 40million diasporia shaped the modern world. The only place Scotland is put down is within the UK. Scotland has friends and good relations in Europe and throughout the world, which will help Scotland in any turmoil.
Chinese – ‘Scotland the land of discovery and invention’. At least other important countries appreciate Scotland’s contribution.
Fine work chris but it goes at least one further back not illustrated there.
Osborne was the one to push Gove over the top as he told Gove to stab Boris. Osborne is said to have now pulled out his support of Gove and done the dirty on him in return.
Absolutely nobody trusts each other in that shambles of a Nasty Party. You can certainly see why.
Brilliant.
WM right now is like Game of Thrones without the nudity. Who’s next to meet an untimely (political) death? What alliance will pop up, only to be broken quickly? And certainly, there be dragons!
Wonderful title and cartoon.
I doubt that Gove will have the last laugh though…
the death throes of a patrician patriarch plutocrat aristocrat monarchist democracy –
Whateffer.
Cruel Britannia indeed.
The mask has finally dropped and we see a Westminster scenario of deceit unfolding before our eyes.
The subplot is the ongoing machinations in Labour.
The two mainstays (ignore the irony) of the Westminster system are at war, ironically on the anniversary of the Somme when the upper crust on both sides of the conflict herded men to annihilate each other. The Prussian – German and Austro – Hungarian upper crusts were deposed, the British, public upper crust survived.
Ireland rebelled and became independent; now the westminsterites are at war.
End of UK.
And so it goes, on and on and on…
I see the Centre for Policy Studies (chest puffers and strident strutters) has been contorting itself in an attempt to inveigle itself into the machinations surrounding Scotland’s options for remaining with the EU.
Now an organisation listed at number 69 (of 80) in the “Top Think Tanks in Western Europe” has a little more work to do in the credibility stakes before weighing in on the state of other much more credible, respected, and highly regarded players.
Any lower in the ranking and it seriously risks becoming the John McTernan of think tanks.
Great cartoon – nasty party alright – only thing missing is all of us on the ground being trampled to bits as usual. They don’t need to worry about jobs, wages, or immigration status so they don’t care who they trample on in their lust for power.
@ Doug Morrison 8.30
Or a waving paw?
“And certainly, there be dragons!”
and worse … there’s Liam Fox.
Excellent depiction of the Nasty party at their best.
The UK Tory Party, which includes Ruth’s northern outpost, are even more self serving and power crazed than the Labour Party, if that is possible.
Osborn’s long term economic plan is in tatters, and his deflection to abandon plans to reach a surplus by 2020 by blaming Brexit rather than his incompetence, says it all.
Meanwhile, in Lala land, Kez is trying to cosy up to the Labour Mayor in London to secure the best Brexit deal for Scotland and London. What an opportunist, if only there was anther way for Scotland to get the best deal, eh?
@Ken500 at 8.16am- what superb early morning rant!!
Sky News had some young plonker, from a “right wing think tank!”
no name of what it actually is. Monstering the Scottish economy big time. We only survive through pulling and sharing. Worse than Greece etc.
Sky interviewing him, leading him along with the usual pre determined questions.
The propaganda is being stepped up now guys.This what we have to suffer, if in reality anyone who thinks that they subsidise us out of the goodness of their big hearts, needs their heads examined.
They want to keep us shackled so that can do what they have always done, rob us blind.
This is brilliant — it will go round the world!
The man likes colour in his cartoons!
Very nice Chris.
Saw the Sky piece Les. One of the most openly biased I have ever seen. No challenge to the right wing think tank guy. In fact he was chipping in with his own stuff.
And next week to continue a theme. ‘The Texas chainsaw massacre’ featuring the Parliamentary Labour party.
Nice one Chris.
Well Boris will just bide his time using the next few years as a sitting member to further upholster his rump, and when at the next General Election the Tories led by Andrea Crabb or Theresa Gove get walloped by whoever is the official Opposition by then, Bojo will return from the grave to lead the remaining ghouls to the Opposition benches.
Infamy, infamy they’ve all got it infamy!
No one believes MSM propaganda any more. Scotland has never been treated equal in the Union. Sky will just increase the numbers of people in Scotland who support the SNP and Independence and lose viiewers. People are sick of their lies, and their tax evading Non Dom owners.
The majority in Briain and Ireland wanted to stay in the EU. The Cameron Tory/Unionists manipulated the vote. Good luck with that Brexit- incompetent Tory/Unionists. May Thatcher (Home Secretary) was a totally iincompetent liar who did not control any migration in England/UK. She cut the staff and manipulated the figures. Then blamed the Staff she appointed. The Offical called her out and resigned. May Thatcher just kept on troughing and lying Typical Tory/Unionist l A normal Tory/Unionist incompetent liar.
At first glance, I thought the knives were mics and they were singing the old O’Jays ‘Backstabbers’ song. Can’t get that image out of my head now!
Great ‘toon Chris
Will it be YES2 or Scotland in Europe or something else catchy but powerful?
I hope all the indyref1 organisations are resurrecting themselves. I think we may need to be able to move quickly.
The media is still our biggest problem but social media can help. I follow more and have more followers on Twitter than I had as a novice during indyref1. It does help get the word out there.
Excellent Chris, I have the O’Jays Backstabbers playing in my head now!
I’ve posted a few links on previous thread for anyone interested
Ken500 says: 8:31 am
“One of the oldest European countries which has had a major benefit on the rest of the Democratic world.”
We know that, unfortunately most of the world doesn’t. Friends visiting India recently frequently encountered people who had never heard of Scotland and the closest they could get was Scotland Yard and naturally assumed Scotland was a region of England.
I see the MSM/BBC are peddling a report that an indy Scotland would be Greece without the sun. We need some really catchy ripostes for this type of thing.
300 years of Union and we are like Greece? Time to exit and fend for ourselves.
Another beautifully drawn cartoon, Chris. Thanks.
The sad thing is they will all unite when it’s over to hold on like limpets to the power and wealth they crave, never caring about the mayhem they create. Labour are pretty much finished so that gruesome conga line is the government for the next decade at least. Whoops apocalypse for your human rights and equality.
Surely most No voters would find that a terrifying prospect?
As for Scotland being Greece without the sun, why is England so desperate to hold on to us?
Maybe one of those fine Yoon journalists could explain it slowly to us.
As usual brilliant. Only thing I could suggest is that Nicola is at the back of the queue.
To the winner goes the spoils.
The correct response to this bust and deficit ridden Scotland fallacy is to point out that if Scotland carries this huge burden it is because it is trapped in a bankrupt UK economy.
@galamcennalath
“WM right now is like Game of Thrones without the nudity”
Thank the Dog for small mercies!
Superb toon Chris. The Westminster cess-pit of intrigue and back stabbing. The sooner we are shot of the lot of them the better.
I see WGD has an article in the Nat about what Rajoy has really said about Scottish independence. Haven’t read it yet but will do later.
@ tintochiel 9:39am.
“Maybe one of those fine Yoon journalists could explain it slowly to us.”
Good point. When the Tories wouldn’t spare a single penny to help a dying man why would they subsidise a failed, cash leaking country, worse then Greece even?
Perhaps we do need to keep pressing for a meaningful answer.
“Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in-fa-me!”
Brilliant cartoon.
@Tinto Chiel
I just asked a yoon journo and he told me,
“well you must know we love you so much and because you are too wee and too poor to look after yourselves, your kind and benevolent neighbour will take good care of you as we have always done. So eat your cereal up now”
Romani ite domum…
Fantastic as always Chris,
Personally I’d rather live in an Independent Scotland post nuclear winter (never mind a Greece without sun) than be lorded over by these fuckwits!
Old England’s done.
Ken500 says:
2 July, 2016 at 9:23 am
No one believes MSM propaganda any more. Scotland has never been treated equal in the Union.
Ruby replies
Have you read this:
link to archive.is
Brexit : la presse britannique a échoué à combattre les mensonges politiques
link to archive.is Google translate
PS It looks as if the entire Scottish police force are out on the Royal Mile. There’s a policeman standing to attention every 5 yards.
¡qué barbaridad!
That’s Spanish which you probably knew. I’m learning lots of new expressions now that I’m reading all the foreign press.
The police are there to control the crowds but their aint no crowds but not to worry ‘la presse britannique’ will organise a photo shoot of happy smiling Union Jack wavers to give the impression that the streets were mobbed with happy loyal subjects. Perhaps the Orange Lodge will help them out.
A lot of people on this website are in denial. Most of the population get their info from the BBC/MSM and it will remain so for the forseeable future, although it might be reducing slightly in favour of social media.
Without soft No voters we are going nowhere and to have cred, indyref2 might possibly need 60% for Yes. Unionists really do not want to question the status quo which is why anti-indy headlines reinforce easy and lazy thinking.
We have to reach these soft No voters using their chosen medium, how else can we get to them?
When Nicola Sturgeon was in Brussels, she was followed by a small posse of Scottish media. Bet that was the first time for many they had been at the EU seat of power reporting for Scotland, instead of back home reporting on murders etc. Just gives them a little taste of the opportunities that would exist if Scotland was independent. Woo the media not crticise them.
Great cartoon & lots of very witty comments!
Link for the WGD article here:
link to thenational.scot
Absolutely brilliant.
May be another one to add soon. (Clue is in the sentence).
Maggie would be so proud of her little fanboys.
lol nice one Chris.
Just outside the picture is Hamish looking on laughing his head off with his suitcase packed waiting on a taxi.
We all know that when a branch is losing money, they close it down. Quick as possible when the whole group are in financial peril, well Westminster seem to have other ideas.
They say that they subsidise Scotland and they have an opportunity to off load us, and by doing so, allegedly,
they would strengthen their English economy that has been in dire straights for 8 years, with another 8 years likely.
Why don’t they do it, because they make a fortune from us!
They say they love us, they want to Pool & Share with us.
Why is it we are paying for Trident replacement that we don’t want, H2 Rail link that is for England only, London Sewers don’t do much for Scotland either!
They also tried to Con Scotland by taking an extra £7 Billion from us when settle on the new Holyrood powers.
There is love here. More like a brutal mugging.
Look at Westminster politics in general to see where the UK actually are.
We have a Tory PM who wants to stay in Europe, so he supports an EU referendum to allow the UK to leave it?
He is up against his own party members who want to Brexit and be leader of the country? (Against his own party?)
Brexit wins and the PM must resign, as he wanted Remain.
He resigns, but not yet, and we don’t know when it happens?
The Brexit leader then says that he doesn’t want to be leader?
Brexit leader’s right hand man, who always said that he wasn’t leader material, suggests he still isn’t but he wants to be the leader?
Yet another Tory, who like the PM wanted to Remain, looks likely to be the new leader, but somehow she can lead us into something that she doesn’t agree with or want?
The EU demand that no trade negotiations can take place unless UK agrees to keep their borders open for EU citizens, and a membership fee would be payable.
Brexit campaigners say that they will negotiate with closed borders and No membership fees?
They seem to think an isolated and bankrupt country is in a stronger negotiating position that 27 other countries?
We have Scotland who have voted overwhelmingly to Remain,
are informed by Westminster that is doesn’t count, as an older referendum result must trump this one?
I take if we have a general election and the current government are beaten, they can claim the earlier election trumps the latest one?
Not to worry, I’m sure that the main opposition party, Labour, will fight this?
Labour leader gets an overwhelming victory from the party members. Over 60% of them voted for Jeremy, and his closest rival only got 19%. Everything good so far.
Over 80% of the Party’s MPs decide that they don’t like the leader, nor the party members decision o the leadership election? The Social and Democratic party MPs do not like the leader’s Socialist policies nor the democratic outcome reached by their members??
The leader of the rebel MPs has stated that the current leader doesn’t have enough of a personality to lead, but compared to the rebel leader’s personality, he looks like a pop star.
There is one party with a leader that has personality, a plan for all occasions and a cogent answer to everything that troubles us, BUT they others above say she is Baaad ?
God help Scotland and save us from England’s idea of politics!
Great cartoon Chris.
The strange thing that I see? The people of Britannia were content to be knifed by Brexit, they demanded it in fact. Cameron didn’t exactly squeal like a pig to be knifed and out of the driving seat and thus avoid having to deal with the Brexit he invited but the defeat he did not; Boris didn’t exactly put up a struggle when his knife saw him excused taking responsibility for the damage he’s caused. Even Gove has told us he’s not fit for the job, and you have to wonder whether his knife will come from a successor or his Mrs.
I’ve never known any such bunch to be so relieved to feel that cold steel in the ribs.
Am I too cynical? When the going gets tough, the Tories wear mithril? A knife in the back certainly takes a lot of personal culpability out from the act of resignation.
We have dwelt upon these rogues for too long. They are all finished has beens.
We have Scotland’s sovereignty to secure, and a corrupt and powerful media monopoly which is already poisoning our water supply.
Come on Nicola. We are all champing at the bit. Your lieutentants await their orders. Is it Indyref or UDI? What word from our allies in Europe?
A week is a long time in politics, but year under corrosive BBC propaganda looms ominously before us. What tasks can we manage in the time that we have? Is time our ally or already running against us?
In the next few days, the Chilcott Report will see Sauron’s lidless eye distracted, but only for a while, and so we wait, but only for a while…
If as now seems possible, article 50 never will be triggered by Westminster, what becomes our cue to mobilise in earnest?
It’s great, Chris.
I see you’ve retweeted The Times’ cartoon! (Link on last thread).
Queenie dragged out to do her duty in the Athens of the North may the sun shine on us all.
Scottish crown older than the one in London whispers Big Brian on radio shortbread.
Will Scotland get the point…Oh see cartoon…we’ve been getting stabbed in the back for over 300 years.
O/T without apologies.
Two debates overheard in the pub strike me as important to address.
The first was surprisingly expressed by people I hitherto respected and was about economic migrants coming here and getting immediate benefits,health care etc and some also mentioned “they” got free bus passes and mobile phones and housing. Anyone know the actual truth as such apparent unfairness might explain the reluctance of the elderly to support independence.
The second debate was the neglect of ports in the east coast of Scotland. Last night on Wings a wee debate started about Forth Ports but fizzled out. To old Leithers in the pub the neglect of the port was seen as a contributer to lower exports. Surprising knowledge of necessary structure plans for deep water,fast turnaround ports and the need to stop ports authorities asset stripping port lands.
There you are folks,any help with information and Tory and Tory lite can explode in their own time.
While writing this i just listened to a tsunami of propaganda on BBC. Let us win this time!
As noted above. Utterly perfect.
A respected think tank, or a right wing respected think tank
You never hear of left wing think tanks, do left wing people not think or possess a tank in which to do that thinking
I’m favouring armed insurrection now, and the first to go are people who invade our airwaves starting any sentence with the phrase “A respected” because following those two words is the backup by the Broadcaster of a political “Journalist” who we’ve all heard before saying the same anti Scottish anti SNP crap and they’re generally from the Guardian or some other stupid paper that couldn’t outsell the Beano on the first day of an alien invasion because their opinions are nonsense and nobody wants them but still the broadcaster persists “Scotland must be told”
After about the first two paragraphs have been mulled over and chewed up the real point of the discussion becomes clear, the saving of the Labour party and how to achieve it and remove the vile Nats because the once great Labour party who saved the world must be saved from it’s own self, and that means getting rid of those vile Nats
At this point every sane person left listening would be reaching for the Kalashnikov and rushing towards Pacific Quay with nothing but murder in mind and no hostage taking because they can take no more
Until, or unless the media gets it’s own way it will continue to pummel us by the day hour and minute to achieve it’s goal which is to be the controlling political party without anybody actually voting for them, and by these actions herald in the new age of politics in the western world, a world where TV viewing numbers and newspaper sales determine the complexion of the government
Before it gets to the stage where we are subjected to giant TV screens in our towns and cities droning at us constantly from above on how we are to behave we must act now to rid ourselves of this menace to our freedom so I say to you all
Get a Kalashnikov and get one NOW !!
This is not an advert from the gun company and is for entertainment only and no children under five years should be exposed to a loaded weapon in the home especially if they’re American
The majority people in Britain who endured the 11WW are now the vulnerable that Westminster are sanctioning and starving. (UK) Gov OAP £7000 a year. Average earning £27,000 a year.
The Tory Royal poseurs could not care less. The are overfunded with publc money and over priviledge. By their Westminster corrupt relatives. Some should have retired long ago.
People feared the Tory/Unionist corruptly coming to power. Illegal Electoral fraud. No one could have imagined the the total mess they could create so quickly.
WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS BAD LANGUAGE. PLEASE SCROLLS PAST IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY SWEARING
Here come ‘our boys’ with the pipe bands.
They are all wearing Teresa May Tartan kilts!
I used to really enjoy watching these parades but I’m not so sure anymore.
The music however is a lot better than it was yesterday when the Orange Fuckwits were out on parade.
Re this Think Tank, the simple question that needs to be asked over and over again, ‘If we are such a basket case, why keep us?’ We know the answer.
That article and media reporting appears to be a co-ordinated spoiler for the Opening of Parliament today.
Cracker Chris, you scratch my back and I’ll knife yours..
Dear old Shereen on state broadcaster. An apologist well spoken brexiter is given free reign as to how he voted for his country. He’s not a racist just in case the morningside clique get worried.
As to who wrote the Herald article lies was it Gardham? Even the DR was pleased when he left.
“Ken500”, that’s a load of crap you are saying about the RMT and the rail strikes.
I work in the railway and am a member of the RMT, my union is a fighting union, they are not doing the strike action for political reasons it is 100% over customer safety.
And may I inform you the RMT was the only union during the 2014 referendum who allowed only their Scottish members to make the decision whether to support the YES or NO campaigns. Our members voted to support YES, while most of the other unions were bypassing their members to support No.
I suggest you check your facts first next time.
The National is brilliant. Like a breath of fresh air, reflecting it’s readership. A relief.. Thanks
Brilliant Chris and it just makes me wonder who’s creeping up, with knife in hand, behind Gove now? The Scots, Juncker, Nicola, the Brexiters (if he doesn’t get an A50 move on). Being such a machiavellian man the list is no doubt endless.
And they will all stab Scotland full in the heart while shaking our hand.
Chris, your best cartoon yet and also inter-changeable with labour characters.
Some excellent comments btl this morning. They cheered me up after reading the Lallands PW blog Nana linked to. Andrew T sounds rather pessimistic. Hope it’s just habitual lawyer’s caution.
DMH @ 9.48. A very good point. The way I put it to Scots who say, “We’re too poor!” etc. is that the Scotland they see around them with its material poverty and poverty of aspiration is caused by the Union. That has actually hit home on a few occasions.
Usually my canvassing chat up patter doesn’t work.
I suppose, while darn sarf they are reliving July, 1916, in the real world, we are reliving June, 1940 – with the wee twist that Winston Churchill, aka Boris Johnston, is refusing to serve.
England is indeed standing alone, but, the Empire isn’t rushing to their aid, and they want the Poles who came here to help to go home.
Still, England will, even more so than back then, fight on the beaches to keep the Europeans out, so, some things never change.
When will it dawn on the Little Englanders:
You cannot have a tariff-free trading deal with Europe, be the countries involved in the EU or EFTA, without signing-up to the free movement of labour.
Without going into the European trading zone, you are going to find it awfully hard to trade with the rest of the world.
You did a very good job, over many years, in pissing-off a lot of the former outposts of Empire.
Nobody likes you – you don’t care, but, it is maybe time you did.
The Tory Party wants out of Europe – their main backers in the City want IN. It does not do to upset the money men.
Finally, May, who is emerging as the favourite to be the next PM, supported Remain, but, allegedly wanted Leave. Whoever gets Cameron’s job is taking over a party still split on Europe. The Labour Party is, if anything, more split, on more issues. Therefore, the new PM will find it impossible to call a snap General Election.
She (or he), will have to lose a Vote of Confidence in th Commons, then, three-quarters of the MPs would have to vote for the disolving of Parliament.
This aint gonna happen – these self-serving turkeys will definitely not vote for an early Christmas.
I think Scotland should be packing to leave, soon.
Customer safety on 30mins journeys could still be ensured Without a conductor/guard. There are still platform staff available and frequent stops. Any arrangement for vulnerable customers could still be endured by platform staff and slight reorganisation. The strike is a false flag, which is damaging the economy, the industry, the public and vulnerable people who need transport. There are camera and videos all over and mobile phones.
On longer journey’s conductors/guards are needed. Is there suggestion they will be cut? Talks could work it out. The Scottish Gov would not support conductors being taken away for longer journeys. If that is the suggestion that is not right. Every strike that happens it is high jacked by Labour politicians for publicity.
MultiMillions are bring invested in the rail industry creating better services, lines and jobs. The rail service does a really great job. This is not a criticism of the rail workers or the industry which is good and is being improved, but of damaging strikes. The negotiating system. The Staff service
and service are really good and improving all the time.
@ could be ensured
Chris – brilliant catoon…again
Goves face and the bigger sword needing two hands excellent.
Perhaps it should be a very large circle instead of a line though…old Brittania doesn’t have very clean hands regarding a history of betrayl.
The CPS….
Yeah, respected mainly by who precisely? We’ve seen 2 referendums in the past couple of years utterly dominated by right wing establishment politicians, right wing media, right wing ‘think tanks’ and strategies of fear, misdirection and outright lies in order to manipulate public opinion.
I haven’t read this report, but then I don’t think I need to. I’ve seen it all before and so has every reader of this site. In fact I don’t think I give a shit what their respected think tanks say anymore.
No, no I’m quite definite about that. I really couldn’t care less. They have an agenda. They are not objective observers. They are part of the opposition’s resource set. All of that and as I say, we’ve kinda had this dance before.
As a resource of the state, they played their part in Better Together’s strategy, misleading and misrepresenting their way to victory.
The Scottish Government’s own special advisory committee which comprised some of the most notable names in the world of economics, including no less than two Nobel Laureates, was singularly ignored by Better Together. Their conclusions paid only lip service, watered down or downright ignored by their compliant media.
Not this time and not ever again. This time the state which has broken every pledge it made to obtain that victory near two years ago, can stick their think tanks where the monkey hides his nuts.
Or in short, get tae…
Ruby Rubysson reporting live from the Royal Mile.
Still just the usual sprinkling of tourists walking around behind the crowd control barriers.
It looks as if the residents of Whiteford House (a residence for Scottish veterans) have all come out so there is a bit of a crowd there. Great photo op for la presse britannique. The soldiers with the Teresa May tartan kilts are all lined up in front of Whiteford House so perhaps the guys from Whiteford House have just come out to chat with their old buddies.
I can see some Saltires waving. I can’t see if they have a YES or Euro stars on them but hey if I wanted to sell my story to ‘la presse britannique’ I could perhaps just make it up, do a bit of photoshopping and report that these cybernats with the saltires were urinating in the street, being anti-English and doing all kinds of dreadful things.
@Tinto Chiel
Sorry peat worrier got you down, best not go and see what I posted since then. G A Ponsonby tweet. If you do go listen, move all valuables out of reach!
Going by Boris’ body language and expression at his press conference on Friday, 24th June, immediately after the referendum, I think he was probably more than happy to be stabbed in the back since it gave him a way out of the hole he had dug for himself.
The fact that it left the UK in the hole he had dug was of absolutely no concern to him
Douglas Carswell (UKIP) in BBC QT stating £100 million a week to NHS. Strange is it not that he should be declaring this. I thought we had a conservative government at WM not a coalition government.
This is reminiscent of Gordon Brown pre Indy is it not.
We have 56 ( let’s not be pedantic here ) SNP MP’s whose amendments to Scottish bill were shot down at WM and yet the only UKIP MP at WM can declare this on national TV, unchallenged by not one member of panel incl. Dumbledumb or anyone in the audience.
This is ‘British’ politics is it not , where the few seem to have a voice and the many are silenced…dependent on nationality of course.
@ Robert Louis at 7:49am …. “Scotland could be Greece without the Sun …. Herald.”
Well there you go Robert, and so it begins, the political editor of the Herald, Magnus Gardham, is now working for the Scottish Office Communication team as of last week. Now privy to inside information that he will no doubt use to his, the Unions, advantage coupled with the usual lies that they publish such as today’s article. The Herald now becomes the overt, public mouthpiece for the covert Scottish Office agenda and that’s exactly why they have employed HIM.
The communication team that the SNP says is a campaign front for the Union. At the end of 2015 they were castigated by the SNP in relation to the amount of money that was being spent on staffing … had risen by 400% since 2010 ….. and now they’ve just taken on another two members of staff.
Maybe those living in / around Edinburgh should hold a protest / some placards outside the building and everyone should boycott the (daily) Herald completely. Sad to say there is a link to the Sunday Herald and the National which I buy and will continue to buy until such time they no longer serve our cause.
We should all email the Scottish Office too and let them know that we are far from happy about this, enraged, especially taking into account we’ll be paying Gardhams wages. I think I’ll also check out the other member of staff that they’ve just employed, Kirsty something or other, and see what ‘credentials’ she brings to the job.
Good catoon, Britannia can stick Trident where the sun dont shine!
Some doubt about Prince Albert’s faither, famiy doctor chief suspect.
They should ban the sale and consumption of alcohol on trains. For the sake of the majority of customers and staff.
Great toon, Chris.
I’m quite e nothing Whispering Big Brian from Holyrood. Lots of tartan on display. Christine McKelvie wouldn’t look out of place on Outlander, a grand Scottish lady, she looks brilliant.
Ken McIntosh striking a good tone. Polite, mildly funny but not obsequious.
When the 5 leaders were stood in the hallway, waiting to greet Madge, Harvie was clearly agitated, going through the rubbish in his pockets.
3 leaders made a slight bow of the head while shaking hands, one remained ramrod straight, and one looked like she was going down onto the floor to lick shoes.
A funny thing happened on the way to the britorium.
The disgusting beard picker’s, new best friend Magnus. An unelected 2nd rater, now troughing on public money and propagating false information. If that doesn’t increase the YES vote nothing will. The Herald going down and oot the door.
Well the concerto’s a cacophany of drivel that sounds as though it was written by a broken fingered 12 year old, and I know drivel I’ve played a lot of it in my life and this ranks right up there with the worst of it
REF: Ken500, my station no platform or ticket staff, two stations either side of me one dayshift ticket staff or nil like me, only towns or city’s have platform staff.(maybe)
All vulnerable passengers are assisted by train crew at these type of stations.
Also senior scotrail official a couple of weeks back let slip in e-mail true intent of why they want to get rid of train staff, sent e-mail to wrong people which was then passed onto union. That was reported in the newspapers and on the internet, suggest you check it out.
hint: stop digging.
Hey guys its Greece week i just celebrated it last night with a kebab i really like this continental culture thing can we be Portugal next week or Italy i like Italy.
Oh no we are dooomeed again its that pesky useless black stuff that is worthless and steals all our money but look our good pal is offering to clear it all up at a price.
Wake up guys vote yes this time.
Yes, Peffers, a musical setting would be most apt, can you hear it?
All together now…
You thrust the right chib in, the right chib out,
in out in out then shake it all about.
You do the backie-stabie then you get yourself out,
that’s what it’s all about, Oh Tory Tory Tory.
Thanks, Chris!
🙂
TOGA TOGA TOGA 2000! “The Simpsons” brought this to mind.
That Tory cps report stuff is project fear 2. Scotland could be Greece! Currency! Isolated island on edge of Europe! Every arguement is rehashed,they have forgotten that project feart was broken last week,but they think it will still work on the stupid Scots.
I’d like to buy a drink for whoever registered this website before Gove made his intention to run as PM
link to gove2016.co.uk
Ken McIntosh criticised hearing Scottish voices on the BBC/TV. What a cheek. Now he is picking up taxpayers money from Scottish speaking people as (unelected 2nd rate) Speaker in the Scottish Parliament. Self absorbed, complete unawareness. He should apologise in his squeaky, sneaky, whiny voice. There are some better (Gaelic) Alba programmes (more subtitle needed). Than some of the programmes on the BBC channels
Fair enjoyed that bit with all the youngsters. Quite a few hints in there!
Made the mistake of listening to radio shortbread this morning. They had economist Ronald McDonald on arguing that Scotland was the scum floating on cess pit effluent and for balance they economist John McLaren arguing that Scotland is the piece of shit that you can’t quite wash out of the dog’s tail.
I concluded that the Yoons are running scared and the BBC feels it is time to relaunch Project Fear and nip this sudden and terrifying lurch towards independence in the bud.
I turned the radio off and went and did something more productive than listen to rancid propaganda.
Right that’s enough of the reporting from the Royal Mile. It’s raining I’m going home for a Nespresso.
O/T
For anybody out there who still believes that Press Censorship or at least a collaborative agenda of silence in the media exists consider the following:-
English football fans ran riot in Marseilles and Lille (I would refer you to Ch4’s undrcover report of a couple of days ago to see how disgusting their behaviour was).
Earlier this week they were in Nice and their team was humiliated by little Iceland.
However, there hasn’t been so much as a cheep in the broadcast and print media as to whether or not they behaved themselves when beaten and humiliated.
Does anybody believe that, bearing in mind their behavioural history, they comported themselves like angels on that occasion.
I rest my case as stated in para1.
The FMs speech.
Zing Boom! 🙂
Ooft!
blackhack says:
2 July, 2016 at 11:36 am
I’d like to buy a drink for whoever registered this website before Gove made his intention to run as PM
link to gove2016.co.uk
Ruby replies
He’s called Andrew West.
Stunner of a speech from the FM there, she got it all in
every wee dig
Never thought Boris would be PM after the referendum: He was too much like damaged goods. Don’t think Gove will get it either: he’s too much of a weirdo and the similarity of his wife to Lady Macbeth is too striking for people to ignore.
The other candidates are all rather non descript. Had never heard of Stephen Crabb but he turns out to be a Welsh/Scottish oik with a hatred of poor people (so no chance there).
May seems like the living embodiment of evil so she will probably be popular in the Tory party.
What a performance venue the Scottish Parliament is.
Her Madge must be thinking, what a civilised bunch.
Whispering Brian drowned out by the piping now.
Brian getting very excited about how glam the crown is. Bit of Queen envy.
Thanks for the Ponsonby link, Nana. Missed it on previous thread
God rot the BBC: the ghost of Goebbels lives on. Fortunately my styrofoam bricks just bounce off the radio.
Mrs TC says we ain’t seen nothing yet and Indyref2 will be much worse.
She’s never wrong (rueful stroke of chin).
This is somwhat off-topic, but, I see from the Rev’s Twitter feed, someone has tweeted that UKOK Toryboy Murdo Fraser allegedly does not wash his hands after going to the toilet.
This, of course is the Tory public school way. The late England team manager Sir Bobby Robson used to tell a story of how, at an FA dinner, he went to the toilet along with his then Ipswich chairman, old-Etonian John Cobbold.
On finishing, Robson washed his hands, Cobbold did not, so, Robson chided him: “Chairman, at my secondary modern school in County Durham, we were taught to wash our hands after going to the toilet”.
Cobbold replied: “Bobby, at Eton we were taught not to piss on our fingers”.
There you have it, the old-Etonian, Tory boy way, straight from the horse’s mouth. I would have said horse’s arse, but, Cobbold wasn’t a bad guy, although very eccentric.
They’re Better Together.
Did Midge change the words slightly in the last verse to ‘come it soon for aw that’…
Still smarting about this Greek comparison: the birthplace of democracy, amazing architecture, a beautiful country, charming, kind people, great local food, a lovely language and alphabet, a blue and white flag.
Only stupid bigots could use Greece as an insult.
I am Spartacus.
Tinto Chiel
Greece also has, like us, St Andrew as a patron Saint.
You can be Spartacus – I am Scoticus.
Poor silly sensibleGove. Watching counter jumpers knife management is always funny. Common as muck Gove’s one of UKOK politics biggest tory arse lickers but boy he really doesn’t like the taste.
Meanwhile, the cry was God Save The Queen
link to archive.is
2Scotland risks becoming Greece without the sun, says thinktank
Independence could hurt nation’s finances, warns Centre for Policy Studies, as Michael Gove hints he would cut funding as PM”
says Carrell of rancid The Graun but PM Teresa Thatcher’s going to do cut Barnett anyway with the coming recession. Hour after hour, day after day of The Graun style savagery vomited over us is going to be what won it for teamGB, if it happens.
Wee bit of a wavy index finger protest here…
This holding up of Greece as a bad example failed state in waiting is all Neoliberal propaganda, and really needs to stop. Ok, yes, the Greek economy is weak, but poor wee Greece is and always has been a cultural supertanker. All your Greek history, from 3000years BC, from your Spartans to your minotaurs, from Palladio and geometry to Socrates and philosophy, from your Minoans at Knossos, to the Roman legions using Greek physicians, to Crete fighting tooth and nail under Nazi paratrooper occupation…The Acropolis and of course the Elgin marbles swiped by guess who…
If you have a book at home about Greece, trust me, it isn’t big enough book. Shitty economy or not, Greece is a jewel which Europe should appreciate a lot more than it does.
If can get excited that Mark Carney putting Scotland’s worth in assets at a Trillion, those of Greece are utterly priceless.
Tinto Chiel
Why did the peat worrier article get you down?
Would it hurt to put together a dossier of brit nationalist media disparaging the EU member states we will need a majority of on board to secure continued EU membership?
It’s all fun and games for the herald and Co but all these countries get attacked in the UK media and we could use that to our advantage.
Greece has a voice whether the Herald wants to bask in its difficulties or not. We should not allow this slight on Scotland AND Greece.
In other news our chosen-by-God supreme majesty made a wee trip down the Royal Mile. A vastly more important March is to take place the morn from Kelvingrove to Freedom Square to support Scotland’s place in the EU and indyref2.
Does anyone ken if there is a similar event happening in Edinburgh?
A Roman Farce for the Tories and a Greek Tragedy for Labour. Oh well.
O/T Re Scottish ports from previous thread. I finally managed to track down Alf Baird’s study of Scottish ports and the link can be clicked from this page of the Reid Foundation website:
link to reidfoundation.org
“Greece also has, like us, St Andrew as a patron Saint.
You can be Spartacus – I am Scoticus.”
😀
In which case, hope you liked Dr Ew’s sublime comment earlier: Romani ite domum.
Some right clever clogs on here this morning. Keeps me sane, just.
Ha ha ha. Beat me to it Tinto C….
It seems now that I have gone home things are really hotting up on the Royal Mile.
I thought it was just going to be The Queen, the Army boys and perhaps the Orange Lodge going up and down the Royal Mile.
Missed all the fun but I’m listening now to Nicola’s speech at 11hrs 41mins on for those like me who were oot!
link to bbc.co.uk
The strike is damaging vulnerable people, the rail industry and the economy. Talks without stories to work it out. On short journey’s Glasgow to Edinburgh. 30mins. There are ways of protecting vulnerable travelliors either assisted travelliors etc.
Or even strike on short journeys where there are alternative travel. Not the whole network. There must be health and Safety measures standard that have to apply. There are justified concerns. The Scottish Gov might have to work it out.
On small unmanned Stations There are usually less, few frequent passengers/travelliors. Most Staff do an excellent job. People can get on and off trains at other (larger) Stations even if it means using other form of transport to connect with them. People make car, bus or taxi journeys to the (larger) Stations.
O/T
For anyone who missed Nicola’s speech, doubt the bbc will show this
link to facebook.com
Greece defeated the Persian Empire, gave the world Alexander the Great, Socrates, Plato, Pythagorus, democracy and philosophy, the most perfect art and architecture the world has even seen (right at the start of the history of Western art and architecture), the most incredible mythology, the language of the Bible, attracted the likes of Byron and still gives us modern-day thinkers like Yanis Varoufakis…
So I would describe Greece as…
“Scotland with sun”
!!!!!!
post scriptum
… And Athens as the “Edinburgh of the South”…
[…] Source: Wings Over Scotland Toga party […]
Ruby: LPW seemed to see lots of pitfalls on the road ahead. I suppose it’s just his legal mind.
Londinium won’t give up without a fight but me and Scoticus MacS are on the ballistae.
Alexander the Great was Macedonian
I was reading the Guardian article and half way through I thought “this has to be Severin” …. sure enough it was written by Severin. A Severn piece always draws the most negative threads in any story concerning Scotland. It is a remarkable feat.
I notice the Guardian increasingly does not allow comment on Severin pieces. I think they are weary of getting a kicking for their obvious bias.
Hard to watch. Rancid The Graun’s massive boosterising for EU ref 2. How they UKOK rage at Scots and never again, you said once in a gen, fuck off with your ref 2, but now they want one too. Its a really really shit Greek EUOK tragedy, going on between the ears of Britnats across teamGB, especially in UKOK newsrooms.
EU referendum
Brexit live: thousands ‘march for Europe’ in post-referendum protest
People take to the streets of London and other centres across the UK to demonstrate against the vote to leave the EU
The BBC
link to archive.is
The Antikythera mechanism… wow.
This once in a generation once in a lifetime once in a f/kn millennium pish we hear time and time again it’s like England and 1966 never ending.
OK hands up we f/kn lied but our defence is we were taught by the best of them successive Governments most of who we never voted for have lied continuously so in a sense we are just joining the party .
LIVE WITH IT .
Tinto Chiel says:
2 July, 2016 at 12:58 pm
Ruby: LPW seemed to see lots of pitfalls on the road ahead. I suppose it’s just his legal mind.
Londinium won’t give up without a fight but me and Scoticus MacS are on the ballistae.
Ruby replies
I thought it was a very interesting article.
What I got from his article was that he was saying should the UK Gov accept EFTA then people in Scotland might be more inclined to vote to remain in the UK.
People in Scotland might be happy enough with EFTA but being that England voted to leave the EU due to uncontrolled immigration EFTA will not be acceptable.
Perhaps they should have put an EFTA option on the ballot paper.
He also said it would be impossible for Scotland to be in the EU & UK which I think is good thing. Not so good for the Labour Party who have some plan to keep Scotland in the EU & UK.
Some comments on here regarding the on-going Scotrail industrial dispute.
Basically, this is an old-fashioned inter-union demarcation dispute. Scotrail wants the drivers, who are members of ASLEF to operate the train doors. The RMT, who represent the conductors etc want their members to have the door control job.
They, (RMT) are going on about safety etc, but, as far as I am aware, Scotrail is not attempting to bring in a rail version of one-man-only (driver-only) buses. There will still be a second staff member, other than the driver on the trains – but, the driver, will open and shut the doors.
Tinto Chiel:
Romani ite domum
Or, to put it into 21st century Scottish patois, with a nod to the cartoon and Scottish unionists:
Go Home Ya Huns!!
“What I got from his article was that he was saying should the UK Gov accept EFTA then people in Scotland might be more inclined to vote to remain in the UK.”
Ruby, that was one of the discouraging bits. As usual, it was an intelligent discussion but I’m getting awfie impatient.
At least everyone knows BLiS______d don’t know what their position is.
Hokey Cokey policies.
Only Greek tragedy I know is Oedipus Rex. If you’ve not read it, you should because we’re living it.
Also, Article 50 is England’s Sword of Damocles, in their ongoing struggle to keep control of their scotland region.
Ita vero, Socrates.
😎
Now don’t go upsetting the Wee Arra Peepul. You’ll get pelters!
Battery low on phone. Cheersmedears.
link to tinyurl.com
Article about EEA & EFTA
It’s dated 2011 I don’t know it that makes any difference.
‘Rough maths tells us that, all things being equal, as the UK’s GDP is approximately 5.7 times that of Norway’s, the UK would still need to contribute around 2 billion euros a year to the EU budget if part of the EEA/EFTA. While having no say in what EU laws and regulations we’d still have to follow.’
Socrates
I think that is right. The strikes haven’t affected the Ayrshire lines because we have pretty new electric trains with driver and conductor and where the driver controls the doors. Going on the old diesel trains is like stepping back in time.
The electrification of more lines and the introduction of new rolling stock will bring similar changes. I am not sure that the RMT can really hold back the tide on this. The issue should therefore be about protecting jobs and pay. As far as I am aware the rail company are prepared to guarantee these but I happy to be corrected if this is not the case.
An excellent depiction of UKOK’s nefarious politics that would make Machiaevelli’s head spin.
SG is an oasis of calm, truth and common sense and we must more than ever embrace the idea of an independent Scotland. The democratic system is being subverted by individuals who only know how to scheme and counterspin against each other – the fate of the electorate is irrelevant to their own ambitions.
The individuals who persuaded disadvantaged communities that they ‘take back’ Britain have committed a grave disservice to them.40 years of an internal economic model that has de industrialised the UK and simultaneously embraced ‘Plan X’ (Williams, R. ‘Towards 2000’) which amongst other things is hostile to multiculturalism and presents a hysterical defence of ‘traditional’ culture amongst the incursion of others , was highlighted by the denigration of ‘immigrants’ and adherence to ‘patriotic’ mythology in screaming headlines in an odious print media campaign that has brought us to this sorry state.
Gove, Boris, Farage and whoever we end up with as PM despite all their blustering rhetoric, will not rush to buoy up these communities as EU funding disappears nor reward their voting loyalites out of the UKOK coffers which are empty.
The problem with taking back Britain is that no-one really knows what Britain is anymore- other than it has a rather sad, isolated, introspective, bleak demeanour. The Leave campaign bypassed the real challenges to the survival of mankind globally- the obliteration of gross inequalities, developing environmental and ecological politics-sustainable food supplies and energy are key. These concerns do not figure in their politics because that requires deep thinking not hyperbolic single issue headlines that revolve around conflict of some kind.
But we know what Scotland is- an outward looking nation with its citizens who do understand its place in a world of globalisation and internationalism with all the opportunities of self-discovery, strengths and weaknesses (and not afraid to debate rationally-the legacy of YES). Mostly comfortable in its own skin and looking collectively forwards, imagining and walking towards a new future.
Rancid The Graun’s ongoing “Jesus Christ, what have we have we done!” freak out today or, England’s reality “How to Project Fear the life out of yourself.” Find a way of staying in the EU, PM Teresa Thatcher?
— Jamie Grierson (@JamieGrierson)
July 2, 2016
Peter Sheaf and Robyn Jankel, from London, both concerned about economic shock, reconsidering plan to open cafe. pic.twitter.com/xbmJPIsqfW
Peter Sheaf, 37, a former civil servant, says he feared that the UK economy now faces a sustained recession, adding: “I’m also concerned by the spike in hate crimes – that’s really scary. There’s just massive uncertainty.” On the campaign to leave the EU, Sheaf says: “I’ve never seen such sustained misrepresentation of the truth.”
His partner Robyn Jankel, 31, says the couple are now reconsidering opening a cafe for fear of uncertain economic times. Sheaf and Jankel both want the government to find a way of staying in the EU. “I hope they can find a democratic way of doing that – I am conscious of that,” she says.
Queenie speaking in riddles to leaders about quiet thinking and contemplation. Is it Sturgeon or next WM PM she’s hinting to or probably both? She did not look amused.
Also a new batch of WM jam coming too, to be spread thinly among the Scots populous no doubt. 🙁
I was more taken with Sturgeon’s words isn’t she the best?
link to archive.is
@Tinto Chiel
Norway is far from enthusiastic about the prospect of the UK remaining a member of the European Economic Area (EEA) via the European Free Trade Area (EFTA).
link to euobserver.com
Call me Dave
Queenie is in almost permanent Father Ted “Careful Now” mode
🙂
If I was the President of a European country like France who has its own extreme right wing,like many others,would I really want the UK to be seen to be successful in spite of our past relationship?
Nicola Sturgeon rates among the best politicians I have ever heard. She is outstanding. How lucky we are In this case I think the old adage should be changed to
“Cometh the hour ,cometh the woman”.
Watching Ken Livingstone on Sputnik.
Gove as PM – destruction of NHS, mini USA.
May as PM John Major in a dress.
Macandroid says:
2 July, 2016 at 9:30 am
?The media is still our biggest problem but social media can help.
———-
The Brexit vote showed that tabloids still have a lot of influence.
The National wasn’t around during the first indyref. It will be good to have 2 different opinions on the newsstands. I always make sure it is on visible display if it has a good headline. And what a difference it would make if we had the Scottish Sun on our side instead of staying neutral like last time. It’s all very well being snobbish, but it is still the biggest selling paper in Scotland.
With social media, it’s good to have a bunch of pro-indy sites, but in order to have influence, perhaps indy supporters shouldn’t just confine themselves to politics-only sites. I knew people last time who were convinced it would be a 65% vote for YES.. because they had been living in a bubble.
The Daily record and Scottish Sun Facebook pages are overrun by yoons ticking each other up. At election times, I dont think that boycotting them is the answer.
CMD @ 1:45
Yes brilliant,most deride the opposition at Holyrood,but like most politicians they are specialised in only one skill,(much like the clunking fist).
Our FM is a world class at Foil,Epee and Sabre,all used with poise and balance during FMQ’s and widely recognised during the big tv debates.
#Backstabbersbeware
Another wale of Jesus Christ what have we done, rancid The Graun style. Hard to feel much sympathy for this crew of upper middle class thugs alone, as they come for us, because we’re all going together.
link to archive.is
Bojo cant even shave properly. Or his Jeeves can’t.
What ho, rancid
The good people of England don’t want to respect the outcome of the referendum and want another one
Any word from Ruth Davidson on that
@TheItalianJob says: 2 July, 2016 at 8:16 am:
” … Scotland is a country that will do immensely well on its own and in Europe and the people in power for in the UK know this but we are too valuable to them especially now the UK is on its own and heading out of the EU.”
Well no, TheItalianJob, if the UK goes out of the EU then that means the Kingdom of Scotland. an equally sovereign partner of the Kingdom of England, will be part of what leaves the EU.
Only one of the only two parts that legally make up the bi-partite United Kingdom are set to leave the EU. In fact it seems that N.I. would rather not leave but they are in a rather unenviable situation. They are all that remains of the Kingdom of Ireland which the Kingdom of England annexed in 1542 by the Crown of Ireland act.
So they were part of the Kingdom of England and England brought Ireland into the United Kingdom as part of the English Kingdom in 1706/7. Then N.I. Voters opted to remain part of the United Kingdom when Southern Ireland became a republic when Ireland partitioned.
So, if the bi-partite UK splits up, then N.I. should also leave along with England and Wales as she was part of that Kingdom of England when the United Kingdom was first formed in 1706/7.
Now N.I. is faced with the same problems that have seen troubles in Ireland since The Kingdom Of England invaded Ireland and planted their Protestant settlers there to oust the indigenous Roman Catholic Irish.
So now N.I. has opted to stay in the EU. However, the United Kingdom, to which the Loyal Orange Order pledge loyalty to the joint United Kingdom’s crown, is set to leave them. I shudder to think about the consequences.
This is why I’ve been harping on about the actual status of the, “United Kingdom”, being the union of two kingdoms and never thus being a single country.
The country of England didn’t signed the Treaty of Union – that signature was the Kingdom of England, which unlike Scotland, is not also a single country.
As I see it, and I’d be the first to say I’m not always right, Northern Ireland now has the same split that it has had since The Kingdom of England forcibly colonised it with the Plantation of English, Welsh and Scottish immigrants. Only now it seems there is a majority who seem to want peace in the Province. This will not sit well with, “No Surrender”
That’s another cracker Chris.
So ‘cutting’ !
Ah’ll get ma’ toga !
Still nothing much of toryboy leadership from my Slovene girlfriend.
Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
John Lamont MSP ?@John2Win 4h4 hours ago
Interesting choice of shoes by @AConstanceSNP to meet Her Majesty the Queen…
And then you go to The Graun’s scotland region btl. Oh lordy
View discussion
2 Jul 2016 12:00
6 Recommend In response to Martyn Blackburn
So the EU technocrats are not anti-democratic? So why is it that the EU parliament is powerless to veto or repeal anything that comes from the unelected EU Commission? It is YOU who is ignorant, not me.
And another display of blissful ignorance which took the UK out of the EU.
Democracy comes with RESPONSIBILITY, above all the responsibility of the people to get properly informed before casting their vote. You failed to do your homework.
–
Re the often regurgitated ‘unelected’ red herring:
–
The EU is based on the principles of representative democracy.
In the EU, the ultimate legislative power rests with the European parliament, which is ELECTED by all of us. The EP votes about all EU legislation.
The president of the EP Martin Schulz was ELECTED by the European Parliament which was in turn elected by us all: he got 409 votes of MEPs out of 612 valid ballots.
Proposals for legislation are prepared by the European Commission.
Juncker and the whole European Commission are ELECTED by the MEPs who are in turn elected by all of us.
Out of 751 MEPs, Juncker got 422 votes (56%), with 250 against, 47 abstentions and 10 spoiled ballots. Due to the importance of this vote, the voting is secret (by paper ballots) to ensure absolute freedom of the MEPs from pressures of their parties, states or others. Before voting, Juncker had a hearing in front of the European Parliament.
The European Commission was elected with 423 MEPs in favour, 209 against and 67 abstentions. On this
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VoteWatch webpage: MEPs elect the European Commission
–
you can see exactly how individual MEPs voted, or display results by EU member states or party groups.
Each EU member has the right to nominate one commissioner, who then has a hearing at the European Parliament and may be replaced upon a negative opinion about the candidate expressed by the EP.
The European Parliament also has the power to recall (vote out) the European Commission BEFORE the EC’s five-year mandate is over.
The European Council comprises heads of state and governments of all EU members who were elected in their countries according to their national legislation. In many ways, the Council functions like a second chamber of the parliament (somewhat similar to Bundesrat in Germany or the Senate in the US).
The president of the European Council Donald Tusk was ELECTED by the members of the European Council (who were in turn elected in their countries).
Sure the EU is not perfect – like any democratic system (apart from the British one which is stuck in the 19th century), it is work in progress. We have to work together to improve it from WITHIN.
–
And here is a short summary of the main manifestos from the last 2014 EU elections:
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European Election 2014: Parties, manifestos and candidates
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Here is Juncker’s ‘manifesto’:
A New Start for Europe: My Agenda for Jobs, Growth, Fairness and Democratic Change
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You can see the 2014 candidates for the president of the EC here:
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European elections: Rivals for EU Commission president (BBC)
* Jean-Claude Juncker (Luxembourg) – centre-right European People’s Party (EPP)
* Martin Schulz (Germany) – centre-left Socialists and Democrats (S&D)
* Guy Verhofstadt (Belgium) – liberals (ALDE)
* Ska Keller (Germany) – Greens
*Alexis Tsipras (Greece) – European Left
And they also had TV debates.
–
Well, all this is of course democracy in action. The thing which the Brexiters claim does not exist in the EU.
–
PS: Can you please post links to the results of last elections in which the British people elected your head of state (monarch) and the members of the second chamber of your parliament (the House of Lords) in which clergy of one privileged state religion sit – like in Iran.
Good god! Tennis has started again:D
Wings Scotlandsson Retweeted
Stewart McDonald MP ?@StewartMcDonald 46m46 minutes ago Edinburgh, Scotland
Yes that is @davidtorrance at @PrideEdinburgh sporting an SNP rainbow badge
From the FMs speech this morning:
“So allow me to reflect on who we are in Scotland today. We are more than five million men and women, adults, young people and children, each with our own life story and family history, and our own hopes and dreams.
“We are the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of the thousands who came from Ireland to work in our shipyards and in our factories.
“We are the 80,000 Polish people, the 8,000 Lithuanians, the 7,000 each from France, Spain, Germany, Italy and Latvia. We are among the many from countries beyound our shores that we are so privileged to have living here amongst us.
“We are the more than half a million people born in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who have chosen to live here in Scotland. We are the thousands of European students studying at our universities and our colleges. We are the doctors and nurses from all across our continent and beyond who care for us daily in our National Health Service.
“Whether we have lived here for generations or are new Scots, from Europe, India, Pakistan, Africa and countries across the globe we are all of this and more. We are so much stronger for the diversity that shapes us.
“We are one Scotland and we are simply home to all of those who have chosen to live here, that is who and what we are.”
As a nation Ms Sturgeon said “we carry ourselves with dignity, we treat others with respect, we celebrate our differences”.
*THAT*
Re Rail
Many disabled people get a mobility/travel allowance. They do not pay much for their journey. They can take a journey that suits their needs.
Disabled/additional needs and vulnerable people can get a carer allowance which means a carer can accompany them on their journey. Elderly (vulnerable) people get free travel so they can take a journey that suits their needs and doesn’t cost much. Connectivity.
Everyone chooses a journey that suits them.
Some Union leaders do not advise in the interests of their members. Create friction and do not consider the best interests of their members. Some Union officials seek political. They lead their members up the garden path and create difficulties for their members. They do not have their best interest at heart. They collude with employers, resulting in lost jobs and hardship. The Union Leaders retain their vast salaries and conditions. Industrial history is littered with them.
Why rancid Graun’s massive boostering EUOK now, is my teamGB mystery of the, well hour. There’s nothing going to change UK Leave win, not even bereft Bob Geldof can save them
“Thousands of protesters on the March for Europe have reached Parliament Square. Photograph: Neil Hall/Reuters
I’ve arrived at Parliament Square, which is overflowing with thousands of demonstrators. A sea of people waving flags, banners and placards has gathered in the shadow of Big Ben to voice their anger at the Brexit vote.
Guest speakers are delivering speeches from a stage set up in front of the square, including David Lammy MP, who is campaigning to have decision voted down in the Commons. “Look at this Nigel Farage, look at this Boris Johnson, look at this Michael Gove,” he told the crowd. Lammy was followed by Sir Bob Geldof, who told the crowd he felt “bereft”.
Channel hopping and the good news is, the Brexit furore is over -like it never happened.
BBC in lock down now, orders from above. Only happy, shiny stuff for the weekend.
Just Like Greece … Without The Sun
I take it as a good omen that they are going to the bother…
Article at Zelo Street (Guido Fawks Himself) – Mail Scotland Hatchet Job Busted
Read more here… link to archive.is
No doubt like others on here I’ve had to put up with ‘mini’ Orange walks for the last few weeks now, disturbing the small, normally tranquil, area that I live in. They’ve been walking once again in Glasgow, today: Another ‘practise’ walk! How often do these people have to practise walking? Or is it the case that they have problems co-ordinating walking and blowing a wee flute at the same time, so have to put in a great deal of time marching about?
Anyway I’m non too happy about this and I’m going to contact Glasgow City Council. I had an appointment in Glasgow and had to wait until the march passed, held me up and I was late. Fortunately (if that’s the right word) the person I had to meet in Hope Street was late too, because of the Orange walk. It’s an absolute disgrace because we’ll be getting a repeat of this next week too.
Now that I’m home I find that there’s a massive walk in Paisley which has put paid to some relatives of mine shopping (picking up items from a jewellers etc) with family from abroad for a forthcoming wedding.
One of my relatives is in the Police Force and they’ve been asked to do overtime (more overtime) to cope with this.
Sick of it. The inconvenience, the cost, police being taken off regular duties and of course the sectarian element. Marching about trying to attract youngsters to their despicable cause.
Has anybody asked how the Norwegians and Icelanders feel about the UK joining EFTA?
We have prudent Norway with its “embarrassment of riches” oil fund, and Iceland with it’s jailed bankers.
You’d expect them to run a mile, but then, a fat beached whale washing ashore after losing its way in turbulent seas might be considered cause for celebration.
– “For anyone who missed Nicola’s speech, doubt the bbc will show this”
It was all live on BBC ONE Scotland.
STV had Who’s Doing The Dishes? with Bob Carolgees.
The EU is more democratic, responsible and less costly (pro rata for the electorate), than Westminster and the unelected HoL. The EU has less to administrate (pro rata) but for a much larger number of people. Approx 8 x times more people – but less administration responsibilities.
Normally in a divorce. Don’t the children get to pick which parent they stay with.
With the most insane 9 days in uk politics so far I thought stu would have shared a few most articles with us than there has been.
We are in need of some direction and stus posts are good for that.
Always enjoy your cartoons Chris, is this blissfully unaware toga party heading off to the Colosseum to meet Hamish?
Where are those good old decent British values, on which we’ve come to rely! Can someone tell our chums in the south that their Brexit referendum has actually taken place just over a week ago perlease?
“Jarvis Cocker has recorded a video message for the estimated 30,000 people who took part in the March for Europe rally in London. In the message shot in a recording studio in Paris, the Pulp frontman held up a world map and said: “You cannot deny geography. The UK is in Europe. How can you take it out?”
The March for Europe started at Hyde Park and made its way through central London, ending with speeches at Parliament Square.
Labour peer Michael Cashman told the crowd: “No more lies, no more hate. We need to uphold the values of democracy and inclusiveness which are at the heart of the EU and this country. We must not let right-wing, narrow-minded nationalism nor xenophobia define us. We are better than that. I honestly believe the disinformation in this campaign has undermined our democracy. Decent British values are also the values of the European Union.”
TV presenter Billie Piper said: “We’re all entitled to an opinion. We’re all angry and we’re all scared and, quite frankly, some of us are ashamed. We have been eager to show the rest of the world that the decision does not speak for all of us. The horrific violence and terrifying hate crime might have happened on British soil but those attitudes are not British.
She added: “I worry, in the throes of frustration and disgust, that some of us have stooped as low as the people that we’re angry at. If you judge people for their backgrounds or make sweeping generalisations about people we don’t understand then we’re nothing but hypocrites.”
She should do Top Gear too.
Danny Dorling on RT.
Prices on property, esp in London will tumble, the country was on the cusp of the property bubble bursting before Brexit.
The rich in London have all their money invested in property, even as landlords.
No wonder they drummed BoJo out! He is a figure of hate to his own kind.
@ Kevin Evans (2:43pm):
Kevin, one of the main problems the Rev has with attempting any articles at this moment in time, with events turning by the hour if not by the minute, is that he runs a huge risk of the article being behind the times before he even sits his erchie in front of his keyboard.
Did you hear the commentator during one of the football games during the week? Can’t remember which game, the game was a bit dire to say the least and the commentator blurted out something along the lines of the game not being over yet and that, in this EURO 16 tournament, there had been more late twists than an afternoon with the Tory Party.
Says it all!
🙂
Prof Michael Dougan Liverpool Uni
Exposing Leave lies after the vote.
link to m.youtube.com
Indy2 Scotland risks becoming Greece without the Sun.
This is a risk I’m prepared to take and wouldn’t it be great
if we were recognised as a great nation of culture and democracy. and all we have to give up is Murdoch’s Sun.
Could we also negotiate doing without the Nazi Backing Daily Mail, the Express, Daily Redcoat, etc, etc.
I read the above front page headline in the Daily Hail.
What Non-Dom newspapers will do to avoid paying taxes.
They also suggest that SNP have left Scots terrified that they won’t be able to pay their fuel bills? lol
I put the blame on the Tories selling off our Nationalised Electricity and Gas companies, Labour and Tory Austerity, and failure of Ofgem to ensure wholesale cuts are passed on to consumers.
Other than that the SNP were alive while this went on????
Hang in there JC! Not sure why this is in rancid Graun’s BetterTogether EUOK rally feed
3m ago
14:57
Speaking of Angela Eagle, Ewen MacAskill has been Merseyside to visit the constituency of the former shadow defence secretary and shadow business secretary who is now a potential Labour leadership contender.
Many Labour MPs returning to their constituencies this weekend, including Eagle, face a backlash from pro-Jeremy Corbyn party members incensed by moves to oust him from office.
Angela Eagle: anger stirs in her Wallasey constituency
@Petra (2.39) –
‘How often do these people have to practise walking?’
🙂
Soo-perb.
That report from the Centre for policy studies is quite something. The prime fault is that it makes the assumption that trading for England is going to be tickets boo. It makes no allowance for UK loss of revenues from movement of HQ’S to EU countries ,and assumes that England will remain in the single market.
They believe that the UK with the Bank of England can absorb the shocks to come to the economy.
If I was a betting man I would be asking for odds, to place a wager they are talking absolute mince. Funny how it comes out now.
Petra – ‘How often do these people have to practise walking?’
As often as it takes to allow their knuckles to heal. 😉
Just home after driving my wife into town, where she is having a late lunch with friends.
The road in front was blocked of with signs and policemen
posted at the far end.
The Orange Walk is filling Glasgow’s High St, with Bigots, Drunks and abusive language.
These morons seem to think it justifiable that people can’t go about their normal business, shop takings go down as people try to avoid the trouble that follows these events.
Who do you think pays for workers to put out and recover all the road signs and cones, the additional policing costs at the event itself, in the pubs later and the recoded increase in domestic violence later.
Is there anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together than thinks this builds good community spirt and offers value for money in a recession?
If you don’t want a battle from the year 1690 to be forgotten, go have it tattooed on your forehead and march through Glencoe in the winter when it’s quiet.
In response to Kevin Evans point.
Macedonia was and still is a part of Greece.
Whilst based in Thessalonica with the Tartan Army
The local people chastised us for saying we were going to play Macedonia!!!!
Correcting us by saying we should give it its proper name :-
FYROM.
Just a point. Probably the Ancient Greek lands included the whole area.
PS Great toon Chris
@Breeks
See my link at 1.46
Well its a right old pickle is that one Robert just what happens now in the Irish county of Ulster,the border cant go up again but if dragged out the EU it will be bye bye good friday and borders,you know i always wondered why the brits were so desperate to keep a hold of Ulster and it just twigged could it be that possible oil of our west coast well it would be of their north east coast as well if its there.
Maybe they should go for independence kind of makes sense and would probably make the republic moan a bit but accept that at least its not run by brits and would be a partner in the EU giving Ireland two voices.
Ian & Petra
It must be hard to walk when you are “up to your knees in Fenian blood”.
Petra,
We had the OO in Dunfermline last Saturday. Fife Council and police allowed this parade to start before the school gala parade.
Totally inappropriate for something like to be permitted on such a day.
In the 21st Century there is no need for this. They are only here to antagonize the public.
As for practice, they can do what other bands do. Find a hall and practice there.
Only watched the final half our of parliament opening.
Any reason for the purple/black outfits of the youngsters?
Weren’t Elizabeth and Phillip looking very glum.
Agree about the string ensemble, truly dire.
Nicola’s closing speech was eloquent, but personally, I thought that our Makar was excellent.
She didn’t miss a trick. She covered every aspect. Some things might be a wee bittie controversial re the Brain family, emigration and Syrian refugees, but she said this all with a smile.
capella 12.24
Good link to the Alf Baird article. Underinvestment and no foresight for ports and infrastructure etc. Typical Westminster, but if it had been needed for the SE no doubt they would have spent it there.
See all that oil revenue we could have had if we had been independent, would have contributed greatly in modernizing all suitable ports with connecting transport links.
Makes me feel like buying a dagger as well, sure I can find somewhere to stick it easily enough, raging.
Dr Jim 2.18
Ms Davidson says ” that was last week, I’ve changed my mind so get over it, more important things to see about now that the whole of Holyrood are ganging up on me. Busy righting up my next SNP bad contribution to the media.
It would appear that the English establishment is more panicked at the thought of Scotland leaving the union than the UK leaving the EU. It makes the mind boggle at just how much money they are hoovering out of Scotland.
Rancid sez, but Wrong parliament entirely, soon enough wrong country and too late
“The Queen has issued a clear warning to the UK’s political leaders to remain “calm and collected” after the vote to leave the EU, as she formally opened the new session of the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh.
Making her fifth opening speech at Holyrood before formal processions through central Edinburgh, the Queen made no explicit mention of the referendum or the chaos now gripping the Tory and Labour parties, but she told MSPs that true leadership demanded “deeper, cooler” thinking in times of turbulence.
In some parts of Scotland Orange Walks never, never happen. They are completely banned. Banned
The number of Orange Marches up in the Central Belt – Glasgow, are extraordinary. It is a total absolution of responsibility by the authorities. An absolute menace. If they want to hold Marches they should do it on private property or with permission out of the way, not take over the public highway. It is just ridiculous. They are an unequal, selective, exclusive organisation. They should not be allowed to carry on like that. It is a corruption and illegal to fund such a minority disruptive organisation with public funds. They do not have majority support. It is just unbelievable.
May 2017.
So as Brenda tells her scotland region to calm down
“Jeremy Corbyn was held back by aides on Saturday after a reporter asked if he was “running away” from answering questions about his beleaguered leadership. The Labour leader turned around to confront the journalist on Highbury Fields in north London, where he had been speaking at an anti-racism rally.
Photographer Julian Andrews told the Telegraph: “There were three or four camera crews and a handful of photographers. Everyone had been told that he wasn’t answering questions. He was walking backing to his car when it happened.
“The reporter asked him if he was running away and he completely fired up. He swung around and made his way to confront her but two or three aides carried him away. He was really pissed off.”
Corbyn then told the reporter to contact his press office if she wanted to arrange an interview.
The incident comes as Angela Eagle made a renewed call for Corbyn to stand down.
Life of Brian – ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
link to youtube.com
@Almannysbunnet
Re the assertion that Scotland exports more to England than to the EU, this report is from before indyref and there are no figures for oil revenue, now that’s a surprise huh.
link to fullfact.org
@ Heedy
Am I reading you right Tomkins is complaining about a wummans shoes
Is that it, the official opposition to the Government moanin aboot shoes
That’s it I’m slappin that Numpty the next time I lay eyes on him ….Shoes? Be Christ! Ye Jist….OH !!
That’s it I’m slappin that Numpty the next time I lay eyes on him ….Shoes? Be Christ! Ye Jist….OH !!
Hey that’s my Slovene girlfriend! She’s like totally in to fashion, and not insane:D
Dr Jim says:
2 July, 2016 at 3:48 pm
@ Heedy
Am I reading you right Tomkins is complaining about a wummans shoes
Anyway with each passing Brexit day, Prof T can only watch as his beloved UKOK union ends and with it, his Baron Tomkins of the scotland region and Ljubljana dreams of Lordship greatness. They gave Lady Mone a Lords trough slot for life, for fcuks sake. Poor Adam.
There’s just not enough graphs in the UKOK world now. So glad I’m a shallow thinker. I blame WoS for my shallow thinkingness:D
(((Kevin Hague))) ?@kevverage 23h23 hours ago
My timeline right now – perfect case-study in the knee-jerk reactions of shallow thinkers when faced with certain trigger words
OT
Capella says:
2 July, 2016 at 12:24 pm
A Roman Farce for the Tories and a Greek Tragedy for Labour. Oh well.
O/T Re Scottish ports from previous thread. I finally managed to track down Alf Baird’s study of Scottish ports and the link can be clicked from this page of the Reid Foundation website:
link to reidfoundation.org
===================================================
Thanks for that Capella.
No investment in Forth/Clyde/Tay ports for over 30 years and outdated facilities restricting Scotland’s exporting capabilities.
@ Heedy
Back to the shoes sorry,
I actually think Angela Constance is crazy mad but in a really good way, her clothes are her, she’s cool
Tomkins is supposed to be a grown man though and it’s just bad apart from the fact that has he never looked in the mirror at himself the guy is Mr Ben for god sake, he’d have to pass a bright colour to be noticed that he’s the dull bit
Looks as if all the years of Tory austerity was for nothing!
In 2010 Osborne’s Deficit Plan was to have a surplus by 2015
He kept moving the date forward until in 2015 the target was 2020.
After Brexit, all plans have been shelved.
Absolutely pathetic.
ann wrote (@3:23pm) – “As for practice, they can do what other bands do. Find a hall and practice there.”
Ann, they all already do, they’ve been hitting us with this street “practice” baloney for decades, i know, i had family steeped in the “traditions” – mostly all dead now thank goodness.
Petra’s post @ 2:39pm hits every nail on the head, that’s how it is! And until Councils learn to say ‘NO’ it will continue apace.
Play suspended until 4.45. Why cant they just play in that tent? If our Andy wins Wimbledon 2016 and Wales win Euro 2016 – as the great JK Rowling once said, I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if England were any good at anything and I wont be able to keep a straight face around my English friends and family for the rest of my UKOK life.
OT. As I’ve said before,the Labour Party Establishment is SCARED STIFF of the Iraq Chilcot Report coming out next week.
They want Jeremy Corbyn OUT BEFORE the Report is published.
As Leader he won’t allow any Labour Spin on the expected damning Report!
Almanny’sbunnet
I think you’re right about the panic
Which was why I pointed out elsewhere that the important part of Gardham’s appointment was the date of it –
BEFORE we had The Night Of The Long Knives.
Cameron himself boosting the propaganda machine up here even as he settles into ‘lame duck’ mode down there.
Project Fear 2 – The Empire Strikes Back.
JK Rowling’s vote NO or else Project Fearing is still fun to read. Her Project Fear 2.0 is no doubt being hammered out right now in her garret
link to archive.is
Scotland has punched above its weight in just about every field of endeavour you care to mention, pouring out world-class scientists, statesmen, economists, philanthropists, sportsmen, writers, musicians and indeed Westminster Prime Ministers in quantities you would expect from a far larger country.”
Plunge in anywhere and what weight is England punching at, or rather what weight will it be punching at after they cut the Art 50 thread for example.
Took quite a while to read all this good stuff.
I always skip the “Rock” and responses to it.
“The problem with taking back Britain is that no-one really knows what Britain is anymore- other than it has a rather sad, isolated, introspective, bleak demeanour. The Leave campaign bypassed the real challenges to the survival of mankind globally- the obliteration of gross inequalities, developing environmental and ecological politics-sustainable food supplies and energy are key. These concerns do not figure in their politics because that requires deep thinking not hyperbolic single issue headlines that revolve around conflict of some kind.”
Great comments, Phronesis. What happens when Cornwall, Wales and the NE of England don’t get their EU funding? I’m sure they’ll get diddly-squat from the towel-folder in chief. Why didn’t they think of that? They are going to be further impoverished.
Heedtracker at 2.22; a excellent summary of the positive democratic aspects of the EU which are suppressed by MSM and the BBC. Thanks.
Nana: looks like there’ll be no welcome in the fjords for England, then. Maybe Iceland could help them out. Oh, wait…
What’s the Ref. up to? It’s too quiet. Saw the perfect Christmas gift for him in a bookshop in Glasgow:
Swing, Hammer, Swing by Jeff Torrington.
The way to address problems with the Orange Order is education. It’s not the history or act of commemoration that’s the problem. If I was moved to commemorate Bannockburn every year, then that’s my own prerogative. But to go out of my way to make some ritual provokation towards some English bystander turns my act of commemoration into something nasty and malignant. That’s the unnecessary part which needs to be civilised.
Perhaps we should count ourselves fortunate that it isn’t the Klu Klux Klan we have provoking us, not lynching or burning the innocent and vulnerable, just suffering nuisance and embarrasment upon us all; but the same misguided belief that bigotry is accepted and tolerated by a community is where these “organisations” draw their power base. The first step towards a solution is making clear such conduct is not acceptible, but better yet, not accepted.
But this is Scotland. We don’t get a say about what gets broadcast in our own country, and we have Councils which, to be kind, are “works in progress”. That lack of say doesn’t just include the hostile propaganda which is broadcast, equally influencial is the material which should be broadcast but never is.
As a direct consequence we are denied access and use of a powerful medium to address emerging imbalances or societal problems in our society. We see and hear nothing if it isn’t consistent with BBC Shortbread’s arbitrary agenda. Who the flying feck are they to decide?
Channel 4 had an undercover reporter shadowing the English football hooligans, and exposing the truth behind the proclaimed innocence of the thugs where their behaviour was disgusting. Where are our Scottish documentaries exposing the bigotry and predjudice which fuels the Orange Order? For some reason this issue is allowed to fester and suffer its hate upon a new generation. That’s our collective failing by the way, not just theirs.
I long for the day when Scotland can sit back, secure in its independence with a Government loyal to Scotland, news broadcasting and current affairs programs which seek to develop and improve our Scottish society, and educate, enlighten, and entertain us with a simple mundane respect for our own culture. It doesn’t sound very much to ask does it?
Please. For feck sake BBC, stop trying to brainwash me into being British. It isn’t working, and its just a bloody intrusive nuisance. Truth be told, your conduct down the years has played a significant part in awakening my personal nationalism. I really ought to be thanking you BBC, … but I won’t.
I’m a liberal, tolerant person, and I like exposure to unfamiliar cultures, but when the BBC manfully tries to drown out my culture by turning up the volume on British culture, then my liberal views and tolerance start to bristle. I’ve had it. Enough! I’ve probably spent more than half my life listening to and watching your BBC pish, and its never been a good fit. For whatever remains of my life, I want the chance to enjoy and immerse myself in Scotland’s culture, and engage with other cultures through Scotland’s eyes, not Britain’s.
Scottish independence isn’t the end of the road, it is the beginning. Sovereign Independence is like our own article 50. Scotland proper cannot begin until Article Independence is triggered, and once it is triggered there is no going back. Good. What are we waiting for?
BBC? If you know what’s good for you. Stand aside. You are well inside my safe mercy distance.
Project Fear 2.
Here’s the page with the ‘Greece without the sun’ soundbite.
link to cps.org.uk
I read the report as well, but am not really an economics man.
Its quite short, so if anybody better versed than me cares to evaluate it, that would be handy.
I presume the skynews interviewee was cowriter and employee of CPS Daniel Mahoney.
link to cps.org.uk
Heedtracker at 2.22; a excellent summary of the positive democratic aspects of the EU which are suppressed by MSM and the BBC. Thanks.
You’re welcome but actually my Slovene girlfriend gave me it. He’s very clever and a really good kisser:D
Brexit planning:
Stage 1: Leave the E.U
Stage 2:
Stage 3: Britain becomes a prosperous world power again
Breeks @4.49.
That was an excellent comment which coincides with my feelings. I feel so much better for never watching it after my Nick Robinson epiphany. As Macart said recently, it ain’t the media that’s changed, it’s us. The BBC has always been the Establishment’s Lie Machine, from the days of the monstrous Lord Reith. It’s just very difficult to get more people to see through the drivel and pap and lies they spew out.
I have this picture of the Pacific Quay roof on Independence Day as Union Jackie, Kaye Adams, Glenn Campbell are all scrambling for the last helicopter out while our laughter rings in their ears.
Heedtracker: 😀
The “Moving to Scotland” website in the first 3 days following the result of the referendum attracted 10,331 enquiries, that’s up 800%
7,393 were from England
Source: The Daily Record
You wouldn’t think they would’ve printed that now would you
Good public support for Corbyn on the streets today darn Sarf!
Revs twitter an example.
The eagle flew home last night to think again and found the locals were not amused. Jeremy looks pretty secure but they’re a wily lot the Blairites.
PS:
Size does matter!: 31 Aces and then Novak Djokovic finally wilts:
Valerie says:
2 July, 2016 at 2:59 pm
Prof Michael Dougan Liverpool Uni
Exposing Leave lies after the vote.
link to m.youtube.com
Ruby replies
I’ve just listened to a little of what Prof Dougan said and the thoughts that came to me were
1. Surely it was the job of the press to find out who was and wasn’t lying. As they said in the French press
‘Brexit : la presse britannique a échoué à combattre les mensonges politiques’
What good are the press if they don’t hold politicians to account?
2. If it is proven that the leave campaign lied would this lead to the result being declared invalid?
3. If the UK is not in the EU then they can’t vote against Turkish accession (which I gather is something brexiteers were worried about) and if they decide to go down the EFTA route then should the EU decide to allow Turkey in then the UK will have no choice but to allow them in.
I’ll listen to a bit more later.
Cheers Valerie good link.
Valerie I’ve been having another look at the video that you posted on the last thread re. Scotland .. worth north of a trillion. The one that really set me off, lol.
I see that the most uncomfortable looking, mumbling Mark Carney is being quizzed by the Treasury Select Committee and the date in front of Carney shows the 10th September.
I’m sure that there must be much more to that interview, from both sides, and would love to know what else was said. I’ve been searching through Hansard to no avail. Does anyone else on here have any idea as to how we could access that information? Spread it all over the Internet if helpful.
Just thinking too that this is the kind of data that Nicola will be aware of and could use to combat the Scotland as poor as Greece cacamola. Taking into account of course that the price of oil has fallen, so our worth will be somewhat south of north of a trillion now ??
link to youtube.com
Something like team Murray watching Djokovic bomb out. This must be another example of JK Rowlings little wee countries that need to be run by England to “punch above” their weights.
UK can still nuke the whole world into shape though.
@Footsoldier says: 2 July, 2016 at 9:39 am:
” … 300 years of Union and we are like Greece? Time to exit and fend for ourselves.”
In fact it is well over 300 years now. We need no other ripostes than, “Such a wonderfully generous people the English. Over 300 years now they have carried the burden of Scots and Scotland upon their backs. With no other motive than the sheer generosity of a wonderful nation”.
The trouble with that is most of the buggers are so bloody dim they don’t realise the above is typical Scots irony and sarcasm.
It may seem strange to Scots that they actually believe the English have fought so very hard for centuries for the good of Scots and the detriment of the English.
@ Sandycraig and Tam the Bam – it is a scandal that our ports were handed over to private offshore equity firms and that no investment has been progressed in 30 years.
Note that the London ports have been retained in the public sector.:
In the UK as a whole, only a handful of major new port projects have been taken forward during this period, albeit these were mainly promoted by specialist international port operators, not private equity funds, and are in the few estuarial areas where public port authorities were retained (i.e. Thames/London Gateway and Haven/Felixstowe)
(Increased trade and economic growth won’t happen in Scotland till we sort out our ports. By Alf Baird, Consultant in Maritime Economics, JANUARY 2016 p 9)
Breeks wrote: “The way to address problems with the Orange Order is education.”
Sure, if you want to take the long road to addressing the problem! Education has its role to play but the one single act which would accelerate the process would be a nationwide ban.
Breeks also wrote: “For some reason this issue is allowed to fester and suffer its hate upon a new generation.”
We already know the answer to that – good old divide and rule!
Mike Cassidy
The problem for Scotland if it could become independent. The big question is can we afford to be as generous and liberal as we pretend we can be?
Some of the ideas and sentiment ive come across is simply delusional.
My own opinion is that Scotland can become a viable and healthy independent country, but only with a healthy dose of savvy and a little less of the bleeding heart.
link to tinyurl.com
“Scottish Economy Worth North of a Trillion !”
This should be on Parliament TV and there should also be a written transcript of what Carney said.
It would probably just be a case of finding out the date/name of committee and then having a look in the archives
link to parliament.uk
My own opinion is that Scotland can become a viable and healthy independent country, but only with a healthy dose of savvy and a little less of the bleeding heart.
You are that Coburn UKIP fcukwit and I claim my Jabba the Hut poster, of you.
From above: Surely it was the job of the press to find out who was and wasn’t lying. As they said in the French press?
No it is the job of the press to support the business needs of the newspaper, radio, or TV Station owner, by covering up any truths against their will, misreporting, distorting, or full blown scaremongering and lying, when the opportunity arises.
The EBC, although not owned, are quite obviously and blatantly, just a propaganda machine for any UK government.
Thank you Chris…such biting and sparkling wit from one of the very best political cartoonists around.
Blood sports still as popular as ever amongst our lords and masters as they swan off to their vast Scottish estates, full of deer and grouse and wild birds to kill for pleasure, as well as at her majesty’s pleasure at Balmoral.I have been to our beautiful Highlands many times, where the straths and glens are hauntingly devoid of our ancestors who were brutally evicted from their homeland to make way for sheep.
Our present day political criminals could always bring back a form of Roman capital punishment, Bestiari, whereby a condemned person was killed by wild animals, usually lions, for the entertainment of the people of Rome.This penalty was mainly applied to slaves, instigators of uprisings, early Christians and criminals.The salivating BBC would provide live broadcasts as the main propagandists in chief.
Getting angrier by the day and coming here helps to keep me sane.I am more than willing and ready for some action directe, civil disobedience and whatever it takes to gain our rightful freedom from oppression.
UKOK Ex-pats, not immigrants, in peril. They also have to bear in mind that Brexit also means automatic free EU health care in any EU country has gone.
link to archive.is
the orange order plan and promulgate their dates, numbers, routes and times.
so my only question is,
where the fuck is Isis?
@ Ruby at 5:24pm ……. North of a Trillion.
Ruby it looks as though Carney is being questioned by the Treasury Select Committee on the 10th September as per the video.
Year? 2013? 2015? Probably 2014. I’ve tried Hansard. I’ll try your link now. Thanks.
Re Carney my understanding of what he is saying is that Scottish Assets are worth more than a Trillion that is a different thing to the Scottish Economy.
Found this from 6 years ago which stated .7 trillion so with inflation etc would take total wealth in Scotland to over a trillion
link to gov.scot
another way of expressing our economy is by gddp which is around 233 billion p.a.
On the subject of the Orange Order, should they not have a more modern and descriptive name?
How about the Tangerine Terrorists,
Grape Gangsters,
Lemon Louts,
Apricot Apes
Kiwi Knuckle Draggers.
Having been sat next to a group of Fenian Phobia Flautists
a couple of years ago. I now wonder how useful the Orange Order might be to Tory Westminster when negotiating any new international trade agreements?
Let’s see now, countries like Spain, Greece, Italy, and Ireland, etc are mostly Catholic, so there will be No Surrender, Sorry, No trade deals with these guys.
They group above also made it clear that they did not like Muslims or Blacks, so there will be No Trade Deals with India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Caribbean or any of the African nations.
They didn’t mention the good peoples of the Far East, but maybe that was just because I didn’t stick around long enough?
They should be happy to trade with the House of Orange in the Netherlands.
NB Please note that I didn’t say Neanderthal Lands, where the root of their philosophy comes from.
There you have it, if the UK and O.O. team up and start producing Clogs Windmills and Wax covered Cheeses, their exports could go through the roof????????????
Next year, you should see the Red Tory Council in Glasgow
sent packing, and I think that an SNP Council will either
refuse to hand over the city to these bigots, or perhaps take a more diplomatic stance and insist that they can march around one of the City Parks, if they pay for all the policing and clean up costs.
Murray! A Scot punching above that idiot JK Rowling’s BetterTogether weights, again.
Phydaux wrote: “Our present day political criminals could always bring back a form of Roman capital punishment, Bestiari, whereby a condemned person was killed by wild animals,”
What, something like this you mean?
link to archive.is
🙂
Good post btw!
It seems to me that if Scotland is Greece, without the sunshine. Post brexit England will be North Korea but without the freedom, and a bit poorer.
@independent
Try telling a Macedonian Alexander the Great was Greek. You’ll get the same response telling someone on here William Wallace was British. Just saying.
Just read the Lallands Peat Worrier piece on where we find ourselves now. I agree with others above that he is being cautious. But the message is – only Independence will secure our place in Europe.
How many Scots will vote for Europe before the UK? Good question!
heedtracker @ 5.51 pm
‘Free EU health care’ may be free to the individual recipient of the health care if they are taken ill in an EU country but that country will bill the UK for the cost. Currently it is quite a large bill – all those expats maybe.
Channel 4 news did an item on this and interestingly it disproved the Leave mantra about immigrants costing the NHS.
This CH4 Factcheck sets it out albeit in a sort of convoluted way.
link to blogs.channel4.com
@ Lenny Hartley
Yes. I posted the vid, and its 2014. Agree its not too clear.
I have always thought of Scottish economy value broken into components like whiskey, oil, and what they generate. Each of these are in the billions.
The Carney vid is really doing the rounds on Twitter today, but no doubt due to the garbage from unionists starting up again.
Folk need to remember that it is not in the UKs interests to have an open book with us, they never have done.
It’s staggering that the Guv of BoE mutters ‘north of a trillion’. How professional is that???? How transparent is that???
I would not advise anyone to read the comments sections of English newspapers particularly when Scottish is in the headline right now .it appears we are persona non grata just in front of any imagrant, can’t you feel the love .
Well the more the merrier this lot will do our work for us carry on Chaps pip pip .
‘re the Carney trillion vid.
I think it’s 2014. There was very little down south being done to discuss our referendum, so no surprise this time either.
It’s a select committee, so not sure if it’s in Hansard? I’m no expert on that.
I’m on a few Indy pages on FB, and its clear they get some good stuff and don’t share it widely, so I will be doing more on that front. I joined Twitter about a month ago good timing!
They redistributed this old clip two days ago, and I hadn’t seen it.
heedtracker says:
2 July, 2016 at 5:39 pm
My own opinion is that Scotland can become a viable and healthy independent country, but only with a healthy dose of savvy and a little less of the bleeding heart.
You are that Coburn UKIP fcukwit and I claim my Jabba the Hut poster, of you.
Nope, just a guy whose now creating 1 or 2 jobs and starting to realize some economic realities.
I support Scottish independence but i do not support some of the outrageous overly leftist bullshit that seems to be getting wrapped up with it.
You can be civilly disobedient just by marking a X in the Yes box next time a referendum comes around.
As simple as that really.
Many thanks for that Stoker…laugh out loud and good for the soul and a t- shirt I would happily wear in a heartbeat.
Legerwood says:
2 July, 2016 at 6:25 pm
heedtracker @ 5.51 pm
‘Free EU health care’ may be free to the individual recipient of the health care if they are taken ill in an EU country but that country will bill the UK for the cost. Currently it is quite a large bill – all those expats maybe.
Its that “may” word again. Expat’s may get free health care at the present, as of 23 June 2016. When they push the art 50 button, that’ it all over.
If you’re an expat in the EU, the instant art 50 gets the UKOK go ahead, you will have the same status as an American or Australian or a Japanese and so on, in 27 European countries.
As of 23rd June 2016, there are going to a lot of major life changes coming our way. Its ok though, England under PM Teresa Thatcher will work something out.
Ken500 says:
2 July, 2016 at 9:23 am
No one believes MSM propaganda any more. Scotland has never been treated equal in the Union. Sky will just increase the numbers of people in Scotland who support the SNP and Independence and lose viiewers. People are sick of their lies, and their tax evading Non Dom owners.
———-
I can sort of confirm this Ken500, I’ve had two unionist members of my family finally snap at all the stories insulting Scotland in recent days. The EU result shook their faith in the UK, and BBC anti-Scotland crap along with visiting this site has seen them convert to YES for Independence. I was blown away and only hope similar stories are now playing out in homes across Scotland.
The MSM have now become so anti-Scotland its almost pantomime, utter farce. Hollywood villain level guff. I half expect them to soon paraphrase Longshanks from Braveheart “The Trouble with Scotland is that its full of Euro leaning Scots! Scotland Bad! SNP Bad!”
They are in panic.
France has députés and a sénateur representing its citizens abroad, so I sent (almost identical) emails to both today.
Main points I made were that I didn’t trust the Tories not to treat the EU citizens in the UK as toys during Brexit negotiations, and that I hoped that France would rise beyond that and treat both British citizens in France and French citizens in the UK respectfully.
Scotland is distinct from England in so many ways, I’ve never felt treated like a foreigner here, and a great many people are very worried by what Brexit could mean for the people of Scotland. I highlighted Nicola’s speech last Friday and her actions since, and basically urged them to listen with respect to the Scottish voices wanting to remain in the EU, whichever way it may be, and pass on the message to their assemblies.
I finished a link to Alyn Smith’s speech as a conclusion as he articulated what a lot of people think extremely well.
Not all countries have representatives for their citizens abroad, but if you have friends/colleagues from a EU country, why not ask them to check?
It looks like the sénateur is already supportive. For context: France has decided to wind down some administrative services in the Edinburgh consulate – they will no longer deliver passports meaning a trip to London to get a renewed one.. He has sent a letter to the Minister for Foreign Affairs on the topic, urging him (again) to reverse the decision, esp. in the new light of the EU ref result, and saying it would send a strong message of support to Scotland too! I obviously gave him my thanks for that!
@Capella
How many Scots will vote for Europe before the UK? Good question!
Something we need to knock on the head rapidly Capella. If there is an indyref2 its not simply about EU membership. Its not a rerun of the EU referendum.
It will, if anything, be a rerun of Scotland’s independence referendum which has been triggered by a constitutional crisis. The EU issue is and must be seen as the straw that broke the camel’s back. The culmination of near two years of HMG and BT’s catastrophic inability to deliver on a single pledge they made to the Scottish electorate.
They made pledges and assurances, they failed to deliver and now there are consequences to be faced by everyone, not least of which are the electorate themselves. Scotland has a large EU nationals presence, they are now Scottish citizens. Their rights are our rights and our laws, our democracy now theirs. The rights and well being of all Scots, regardless of point of origin are now under serious threat.
Any indyref has to be seen through the prism of defending that democracy and the rights of all Scots to choose their own future. Westminster had its chance to make good on the aftermath of indyref 1. They failed through a mixture of arrogance, ignorance and downright petulance. If we’re lucky, we’ll get that second chance to put their failure behind us and make a better start for all of us. 🙂
@heedtracker 6.45pm
It’s not from the moment article 50 is triggered. It’s either from 2 years after article 50 is triggered, or at an earlier or later date if agreed in negotiation.
link to lisbon-treaty.org
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
This is the same reason why an Indyref would have to be conducted pretty sharpish after it is triggered for a EU successor state status or similar.
link to youtube.com
The Land of Make Belief right enough.
From 32.00 on –
is this one of our would be prime ministers basically trying to get Mark Carney to say that in the event of independence
we can tell Scotland to go fuck itself!
link to youtube.com
And her view has probably hardened over the last two years!
Long time nationalist-hating no voter, during a chat yesterday – ‘there’s nothing to stay in for’. Left him a WBB. The worm is turning.
Well I still haven’t found what I’m looking for re. Carney and will have to give up for now because I’m going out.
However there are a number of excellent articles that would take you all day (years) to look through.
Lots of really interesting data re. Scottish Independence and the House of Lords etc. Information about Brexit etc.
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
link to parliament.uk
link to parliament.uk
Mark Carney’s “north of a trillion” comment can be found on Parliament tv. It’s a Treasury Select Committee Meeting dated Wednesday 10 September 2014.
otherdemons says:
2 July, 2016 at 6:58 pm
@heedtracker 6.45pm
It’s not from the moment article 50 is triggered. It’s either from 2 years after article 50 is triggered, or at an earlier or later date if agreed in negotiation
I know. But is it likely that austerity wracked sunny Spain are going to keep giving immigrants from the UK free health care with or without article 50 negotiation?
Much as UKOK Project Fear terrorised Scotland 2014 with our unbearable burden of old people, its not Project Fearing for countries like Spain to not give all the UK retirees free elderly health care.
Countries like Spain and Portugal might say ok we will give over a million OAP Brits free care but its unlikely that they could even afford too.
@ Macart – the denial of a vote to 16 – 18 year olds and to EU citizens was another error forced on the Westminster government to placate UKIPers. The Scottish percentage voting to remain would have been much higher than 62% if those voters had been included.
I would expect them to add to the percentage voting for Independence.
But, toujours le meme probleme – the MSM.
OT
Loving the self righteous “Scottish Labour Party” Inverclyde CLP members tweeting about 7 of them helping at Foodbank collections at the local Tesco stores.
Wonderful people these Labour cretins!
Still makes a change from them shouting SNP Bad all the time and they may have found something they are actually good at at last. It’s certainly not running the local council.
Press and Journal’s tried to give its Britnat tory readership heart attacks. Doubt this was in P&J print ed. Wonder if Scots.gov have their copy of Wee Blue Book 2.0 because what’s missing here?
link to archive.is
Read the LPW article before. It sets out the framework but he must have been in a pessimistic mood with his assessment of the likelihoods. First it’s much more likely than he thinks the UK will secure an EEA type deal, and decide to go for it. The UK has little option, and the EU if it wants to be the EU rather than a pouting divorcee will also go for it. Indications are that the powers in the EU will go for it.
Secondly he thinks that will reduce Independence, I don’t think so at all. It’s still EEA not the EU. It doesn’t give companies the same powerbase in the EU otherwise they’d be in Norway and Iceland, there’s quite a lot of EU stuff EEA memebers DO NOT have to sign up to, and that won’t keep the likes of unions happy.
I’d suggest he should write a sister article when he’s in a better mood! Having said that, his target audience now includes newspapers and the broadcast media, he’s a well-behaved pro-indy pundit to “balance” things out, so he can’t go gung-ho Indy or they won’t have him on – they’d have to fallback on Sillars or something.
What’s the difference between expats and immigrants?
An online definition is …
Miriam-Webster: the word “Expatriate” is actually a verb or an adjective and means someone “living in a foreign land”. the word “Immigrant” is a noun and means “a person who comes to a country to take permanent residence”.
Ah, so it’s about whether their status is permanent or temporary?
Well, not in use. Lots of UK citizens retire elsewhere and as I understand it, don’t intend coming back. So why are they expats?
Or, most Eastern Europeans in the UK tell us they don’t intend staying indefinitely. They are here because that’s what suits them, just now. So they are expat Polish? Not something I have come across.
I noticed a question online asking why in the Middle East, white migrant workers are expats and brown migrant workers are immigrants? I think this perhaps touches on the truth.
It looks like their is an element of elitism, superiority or racist at play, in reality.
@Capella
Oh hell, it was a catastrophic error, but one among many made by their campaign.
I printed the relevant section of the FMs speech earlier up thread, but the rights of the people that referendum have put at risk still have a chance in Scotland.
This is a couple years old, but it’ll give you an idea of the numbers we’re talking about.
link to migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
Sorry to disappoint people, but Carney’s comment about “north of a trillion” wasn’t about the size of Scotland’s economy – that’s our GDP of whatever, £150 billion, it was about bank /financial assets etc. I think this was what was referred to when S&P / Moody’s highlighted Scotlands 1250% liabilities compared to GDP, able to be carried by the BoE, but a hugely heavy burden for a new Scottish Central Bank. Their recommendation basically was that Scotland lose it, and get less risk and a better rating.
@heedtracker
I don’t know anything about the Spanish health system specifically but you’ve got this wrong – in fact re-reading your previous post that was mistaken too.
I think you got confused between health system access for EU citizens resident in another EU country, and those just visiting an EU country.
UK citizens who reside in Spain are entitled to the same level of access to the Spanish health service as resident Spaniards. Whether it’s free of charge or not is a different story.
A UK citizen only going on a holiday in Spain needs a EHIC card to get (possibly free, or at least no more expensive than locals would pay) access to the health system.
I’m French, I have access to the NHS, but when I go to France I need that EHIC card too.
The moment the UK triggers article 50, I will still have access to the NHS, just like the British residing in Spain will still have access to the Spanish Health System.
Officially, nothing should change with the EHIC card either.
But it can be a bit more complicated, that’s certainly true in France where some doctors can offer either public or private treatment (nothing is free upfront anyway) but will insist on private treatment if you have the EHIC card leaving you to try and claim some money back in your country. I would indeed expect that sort of behaviour to become the norm once article 50 is triggered.
Anne Bruce says:
2 July, 2016 at 7:14 pm
Mark Carney’s “north of a trillion” comment can be found on Parliament tv. It’s a Treasury Select Committee Meeting dated Wednesday 10 September 2014.
Ruby replies
Is this it?
link to tinyurl.com
I haven’t watched all I noticed was that the chairman & Mark Carney are wearing the same tie as in the You Tube video clip but then they might always wear the same tie.
I wonder if there is a written transcript of the meeting available. It’s easier to do a search on a pdf than it is to watch the whole video.
@ Macart – interesting reading, thanks. 🙂
@Anne Bruce. Many thanks! Easy when you gave that.
I will bookmark it, but here is the link mentioned by Anne.
link to tinyurl.com
Listening and thinking on the words now, I think what Carney means is the worth of financial assets (banks) domiciled here.
If you remember, the really big issue was RBS fleeing, leaving us with no back up. They were determined to make all banks leave, saying we had no reserves to back up the Scottish pound.
Now, we have JP Morgan and others looking at us, but only we get independence and remain in the EU.
As I said on Twitter. Indy2014 = great. Indy2017= spectacular.
Scotland is in line for boom, if we take our independence.
Capella
only Independence will secure our place in Europe.
true, if we stay in the UK, what ever is offered to the uk or even separately to scotland, will never be the same deal, or as good as we have at the moment.
this will give nicola a reason to reject any offer/deal and call indyref2. i think this is her intention anyway and her “negotiations” with the EU are a PR exercise and means of clarifying that an indy scotlands will be welcomed in the eu. The negotiation gambit also serves as a mechanism for delaying the call for indyref2 until we see a consistent +60% support for yes in the polls.
the next 12 months is crucial for the yes movement.
1. labour is all over the place, seeing the rallies across England in support for corbyn, i cant see any of the resigned mps being able to challenge him for leader so what they do now, god only knows. If someone does challenge Corbyn, it will only make things worse. either way they are hamstrung until at least xmas, if not longer.
2. the tories have embarked on what will be a period of vicious infighting but are also left with the problem of if or when to press the Brexit button. both actions promise to backfire spectacularly on them. We wont see them doing anything before xmas either.
we need to do everything to grow support for yes in the next 12 months, the snp will sweep the council elections in may 17 with a manifesto reaffirming their intention of holding indyref2 in June 17
we would be better employed in discussing exactly how we go about campaigning to grow the yes support to 60%
re the cartoon,
it makes a change from their usual daisy chain
Ruby,
Is it here?
link to parliament.uk
(I cannot download it at the moment – maybe too many wingers trying to do so at the same time!).
Re my earlier comment re Scotland’s gdp , should have been £150 billion as per yesindyref2 figures I was looking at were dollars doh, mind you if their luck the UK might have parity with the dollar post Brexit.
10,000 More Flags For Yes
For a measley total of £15K, seems cheap to me. who can ignore the impact the first 10,000 flags had in 2014.
For less that a quarter of Blair McBlowbags wages we double the number of Yes flags in circulation. Let’s piss him off, while we’re at it let’s piss off Cameron, Gove, May, Osborne and Johnson.
Don’t burn a twenty quid note in front of a homeless person like the Bullingdon boys Cameron and Johnson did. Buy a couple of flags and prepare now for the next referendum. It’s amazing what just a few hundred can achieve, be part of that.
Yeah, let’s get back to pissing people off.
link to indiegogo.com
@Valerie
Yes. It’s why the Unionists were howling about “capital flight”, and why financial institutions were going brassplate London like there’s no tomorrow. To be honest I thought “good”, because not a lot of jobs go with a brass plate, just someone with a drill and screwdriver and a can of Brasso. Plus audit and accountancy, but the bulk of jobs could and would still have stayed in Edinburgh.
Now curiously there’s an interesting situation in reverse.
Scotland in Uk – no choice over war, nuclear weapons, foreign affaires.
Scotland in Europe no nuclear weapons.
Easy decision for my family and I.
Macart says:
2 July, 2016 at 6:56 pm
Something we need to knock on the head rapidly Capella. If there is an indyref2 its not simply about EU membership. Its not a rerun of the EU referendum.
It will, if anything, be a rerun of Scotland’s independence referendum which has been triggered by a constitutional crisis.
Indeed – spread the word. Get those WBB’s hitting their targets, folks. Now is the time to sow the seeds in soft NO minds, before the establishment and yoon parties regroup. Hit em hard while they are down.
Get those WBB’s rolling.:)
otherdemons says:
2 July, 2016 at 7:37 pm
@heedtracker
I don’t know anything about the Spanish health system specifically but you’ve got this wrong – in fact re-reading your previous post that was mistaken too.
Happy to be wrong on everything but where in art 50 does it say non EU citizens get free health care in teh EU, expats or holiday makers?
With Brexit we’re heading for much the same set up where ex pats around the world never give up their UK citizenship, USA especially. Then when these expats retire, they know they can return to the UK for free health care. And a lot do this too.
BBC news channel flashing across bottom of screen all day to day
“Right Wing Think Tank claims Scotland’s economy will be like Greece without the sunshine after independence”
It’s the first time that I was angry with the poor BBC minions who take the calls of complaint as I read out the leading stats on Scotland and RUK from Financial Times – I know it’s not their fault.
I pointed out many things, including the fact that Indy Ref 2 is not actually started , so who have the BBCMoved into scurrilous lying mode.
That Right Wing think tanks had an agenda and it would be normal for the Express and Mail to cover thier false headlines, but the BBC theoretically had no such compulsion and in theory should be looking for real sources and not running headline designed to attract and mislead
Etc etc. – I will keep phoning even though many of you questioning the point
To, Ken500 ref railway.
Let’s be honest here, my earse knows more about snipe shooting than what you know about the railway.
Every time you post another comment about the railway your ignorance just shines through . So do me and all my hard-working colleagues the courtesy of either shutting up or at least getting your facts correct.
Davy.
Specialist in movable rail equipment/vehicles, structures and safety systems, with expertise in verbal and electronic communication’s.
ie a signaller.
It’s maybe a wee bit late in the year to say this, and certainly too late for Boris Johnson, but when you mix Westminster Politics, Backstabbing and Togas, then it’s time to proclaim, “Beware the Ides of March”.
@Luigi
‘Hit em hard while they’re down’
I can tell you from painful personal experience that a kick in the haw maws whilst you’re on the deck makes you lose all interest in proceedings rapidly. 🙁
Any attempt at Project Fear 3 in the next referendum is doomed to failure just as was proven by Project Fear 1 and 2.
If that’s the best our opponents of Referendum 2 have then I’m not particularly worried. None of the 45% will ever believe a word of their regurgitated crap and those new to the fight will quickly see it for what it is. Crap.
Where does that leave the Not Better Together camp? basically it leaves them broken and without purpose, they are not just weakened they are broken.
Without a positive argument, without a purpose their propaganda is doomed, just as they themselves are. Who will fight on their side next time we cross swords?
Very few I’d argue, after all no one will follow a loser.
“Scotland in Europe no nuclear weapons.
Easy decision for my family and I.”
Quite agree, Hamish100 but I’m sure we all knew CND members in the Labour Party who voted no in 2014.
It simply does not compute, a golden chance to ditch these obscene weapons completely spurned.
Anyone still think project fear is a worthwhile strategy?
The dug biting ankles.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Yoonster Dr NO, jumping about trying to as much FUD as possible, as usual.
Scott Arthur Retweeted
Kevin O’Donnell ?@kevwodonnell 4h4 hours ago
Very likely Spain will veto Scottish accession. Imagine being outwith the UK (90% of exports go there) and the EU. Wave your flags then.
RE Flags Thepnr.
As I was informed today by Park Rangers (after clambering up Arthurs Seat)
FLYING FLAGS SALTIRES is against Royal Park rules as are Banners ect..
FLAGS FLEW HIGHER as the shouts of FREEDOM got LOUDER & People of all Nationalities invited to pose with the Saltire’s & Lion Rampant ( not many refused the invitation).
1st off this morning had to park round at Abby Uni Residency’s walk to Holyrood road blocked,remonstrated with police ,started to walk up Royal Mile hissed at by woman ( told her to get her falce teeth checked ,had to sit down policeman asked if I was ok I gave him a rant.
Police Inspector Bruce in the middle of the road asked what was wrong with me Result escorted by 2 police across the road down the pavement (holyrood side) down the vennell at the apartments round to Indy camp.
Many thanks to Inspector Bruce & Policeman/woman for using they’re discretion.
I hope that Edinburgh has a big demonstration soon, this Royal Park nonsence should be challenged & the closing of Public Roads & Car park that is only half full.
Rant over.
Got an email from Independence Live they have a new crowdfunder but can someone please tell me why there is no mention of Wings Over Scotland.. 🙁
link to indiegogo.com
You’re not wrong Bugsbunny, but its the IDS of March.
Somewhere out there, quietly biding his time, letting all his rivals take each other down, there is an Ian Duncan Smith, calmly stroking a white long haired persian pussy cat….”Patience Kitty. Patience….”.
And who knows, March could be just about right too…
Thepnr says:
10,000 More Flags For Yes
double the number of Yes flags in circulation.
Yeah, let’s get back to pissing people off
exactly, our group is now looking to source 1000 blue disk yes stickers for cars and lamposts etc, scotland car window flags (200) and about 1000 yes badges. we intend to flood our area, every window to have an a3 or a4 yes poster in the window(we can print those ourselves) so that so one will be in any doubt, (not even our good friends in Eire coonciller Enright) that indyref2 campaign has indeed started
Some time soon I’m going to email my MSP / MP (they’re married!), passing on what I’ve been seeing, and if other SNP members present have seeen or heard the same, please likewise email yours.
From that actually wonderful far right (or out of sight) thinktank which is actually a policy creating thinktank) article in the Herald, this from a staunch Unionist poster, one who joined the SLP (Scottish Labour Party) a day or two after the Ref – to keep Scotland IN the Union – same time I joined the SNP to get Scotland OUT of the union.
“A new SNP White Paper will need to be properly costed to win over No voters, not a work of fiction like Alex Salmond’s was. If the figures add up you will get my vote.”
I agree, 100%. I would add, figures – warts and all, but realism.
Another thank you. This time to Robert Rico, the Prime Minister of Slovakia and EU President as of the day after tomorrow (Monday). He has offered to use his not inconsiderable powers and experience to help broker a “velvet divorce” of Scotland from rUK.
Another friendly act towards Scotland. Another friend of Scotland emerges. Another debt which in time will be repaid. THANK YOU.
I wish him luck as I wish the 27 EU countries luck as they attempt to negotiate with Westminster. I hope they have the measure of the beast with which they are about to wrestle. Beware! They are duplicitous. They will smile to your face while stabbing you in the back. They will feign honesty while they plot your downfall forming allies against you. They will stall, procrastinate,obfuscate, appeal to your better nature and ask for your sympathy. And, if all else fails, they will threaten you and with violence if necessary. Oh, and if you study our/their history, you will find that they have an unbelieveable knack of being lucky at the most critical moments. Aye,good luck. You’ll need it!
@yesindyref2
The problem with NO types wanting an Indy Scotland costed out is that you can’t cost out the macro economy of a nation.
What these people need is a quick lesson in how a macroeconomy actually works.
Maybe ask them to cost out the UK economy (central bank owns more than a fifth of its debt), the Japanese economy (central bank owning one quarter of its debt).
It’s a farcical thing to say and shows complete ignorance and a wholesale buy-in that the macroeconomy is akin to a household.
This is what we need to be explaining to people over the coming months and in doing so we need to explain to the SNP why a sovereign currency is SO SO important.
Ok – Ive been looking forward this evening for a few days now – I was meeting some people tonight who were strong no voters who own a hotel and had plans to sell up and move to France when they retire. There whole family was intending to move and one of the family is married to an EU citizen. Anyway I asked there feelings about the vote they were disappointed. Well pissed off I should say and when I asked “are you yes yet” there answer was no. Now there in the process of applying for EU citizenship due to marriage to an EU national so there jumping ship but still won’t even consider voting yes. I am amazed as this whole families plans have been destroyed by the EU referendum but still won’t vote yes. It frustrates me completely.
Four more sleeps until the Chilcott Report comes out…
Make that one, or maybe two sleeps if you’re name is Tony Blair or Jack Straw…
Dave Cameron might be sweating a bit too, over his shady sanction busting South African nuclear arms deal in the company of Dr David Kelly.
And exactly what is it that Jeremy Corbyn knows?
Who can say? But keep your popcorn at the ready…
Watched the opening of the Scottish Parliament earlier. What a beautiful ceremony…from the young musicians, beautiful inspiring poetry so powerfully read by the Makar and young people, and stunning rendition of A Man’s a Man for Aw That by Midge Ure. Nicola’s speech with her generous all encompassing vision of the Scotland we aspire to be.
Made me feel confident that our Scotland is on the right track to a new, proud and confident future with a huge progressive contribution to make to the world. What a contrast with Westminster openings and a breath of fresh air after the noxious Brexit campaign.
@ronnie anderson
That’s no you again getting yersel in trouble with the polis is it?
Glad to hear they were nice to you at least, you do get around. Remember as an ambassador for Wings you have to be on your best behavior. Not where bacon rolls are concerned of course.
Keep flying the wee flag big man.
Team the Bam 7.51
Thanks very much for that!
Unfortunately, all it says is ‘Mark Carney gave oral evidence’
However, thanks to Anne Bruce we have the link to the TV session.
If you do happen to find yourself engaged in conversation with one of those belters who believes that the Union ‘has always been’ and ‘it’s just the way it is’, it might be worth pointing out to them that the current monarch has been alive for very nearly one-third of the period since the Union was formed.
For those with business heads or contacts, or can share with those interested in such. This is a good piece in Bloombergs, just 3 days after Brexit. Also, a Tory pipes up in support, which makes me wonder if he has an estate!!!
link to tinyurl.com
Talking about flags have you seen The Economist front cover
link to tinyurl.com
OK I know 99% of people are unlikely to click on a Youtube link posted on Wings. However you will thank me for this one if you choose to watch especially if you haven’t seen it before but even if you have.
From a big day in Edinburgh for the Yes movement, can you spot the Rev? or Morag or Bugger The Panda? How about Juteman? They’re all there, this is classic Indyref1.
link to youtube.com
Enjoy.
You know what makes me laugh
A wee numpty teacher from Edinburgh “Scott Arthur” threatening us in the same way as Ruth Davidson with this childish nonsense that if we become Independent England will stop buying stuff from us
England a country that imports food by the ton from the EU as well as us because they don’t have enough themselves
Well who would be the EU, US ya wee ladies organ same as we supply Lecky and Water
There’s one other thing the EU supplies to England a Labour force to build roads, pick berries, replenish their health workers
Points system? Nobody’s going to want to come to a country that voted to get rid of migrants because they didn’t like their colour or language or headgear are the English that daft they don’t know what they’ve done
Scott Arthur and his Yoon pals defending a country that’s made itself look like Nazi Germany Vee don’t Vant no Furriners ear
It looks like Brexit is not going to happen after all.
The only ones that will have been stabbed in the back, as usual, will be independence supporters in Scotland.
All the signs are that the next Tory leader will postpone the Article 50 notice “until it is right for the UK to leave the EU”.
And there will be no general election for UKIP to gain seats.
If Scotland, as a region of the UK, remains in the EU after all, we will have to look on in silence.
If only Nicola had called an independence referendum last week for a date before the next Tory leader had been appointed.
@ScottieDog: “What these people need is a quick lesson in how a macroeconomy actually works.”
NO. What they need is what they ask for to help them change to a YES vote. Being smart with them won’t do that!
Re BBC
Hows about a Crowdfunder & challenge Bbc head on IN COURT we have more than enough evidence of the public broadcaster failing to uphold they’re charter.
What say you Wingers.
To all the people who complain that Nicola said its a once in a life time. Don’t you know it’s a woman’s perogitve to change her mind. So tough shit.
We’ll anyone thinking of an Airport run it’s pretty quiet tonight so get yourself down there ha ha .
Anyway I was reading a bit on the Guardian website about how things could get a bit rough for expats when we leave the EU I imagine they were referring to English expats , anyway it gave the case of a guy who emigrated to Canada over thirty years ago when he retired and gets £ a month pension I can’t remember the exact amount, but for f/k sake over thirty years that must be twenty years more than anyone in the west of Scotland if that is the norm we should stop contributing when we are fifty no wonder the country is f/n broke , I heard this mentioned when pensions were being adjusted upwards because we were living too long , I wonder who they were referring to because it certainly wasn’t Scots , most are lucky to see out ten years after they retire .
Robert Louis,
“Just today, one supposed ‘major’ paper has a total nonsense story, with the headline ‘Scotland could be a Greece without the sun’ (if independent). What a craven, Scotland hating bunch behind that paper. Does not one of them give a sh*t about the country they and their kids live in???? Have they no self respect?”
Don’t worry, its “sister paper” is apparently on our side.
Rock says:
2 July, 2016 at 9:39 pm
It looks like Brexit is not going to happen after all.
Its happening all around us Rock, as each day passes more or more Brexit kicks in. Pull your head out of wherever it is now and read the news.
Whats up Rock, run out of Viagra again?
‘re my comment at 9.26
The Tory in question is Mark Garnier of Wyre Forest. Former investment banker, and looks like hunting and shooting type
However, it’s fascinating, and plays into my conspiracy theory, that UK was headed off a cliff, big-time, and it might be good if we call it Brexit.
Check this in the FT Feb 2015. Add that to the money being printed, the 1.5trillion debt, crap growth etc.
link to next.ft.com
Given the pies poor
galamcennalath,
“WM right now is like Game of Thrones without the nudity.”
Are you sure?
Hardly anyone of the multi-coloured Tories at WM have any clothes left.
Has anyone here considered what will happen on the streets of England if there is no brexit?
@ Ronnie 9.40
I am good for £100 if there was any way we could get a lawyer that could find an angle to challenge the lying b’s
Please folks, don’t feed the troll, it just pisses ordinary readers of this site off. Treat the troll like a child, talk over and above. The troll will try repeatedly to get attention, but if ignored will go away.
As the saying goes, ‘don’t feed the troll’.
Famous15,
“Anyone know the actual truth as such apparent unfairness might explain the reluctance of the elderly to support independence.”
The vast majority of the British Nationalist elderly will use any excuse they can find to vote No to independence.
In England too, it was the elderly British Nationalists that voted against their children’s and grandchildren’s futures.
Ronnie Anderson at 940 pm,
Re: the BBC, not a bad idea. Maybe it is possible?
Here we fucking go again…
🙁
@ Cadogan Thanks Cadogan I would match that £100+4.
Cmon people lets do ah straw poll in O/T.
I cant see any other way to hold them to account.
@Thepnr. 9.29
Absolutely fantastic.
@Ronnie
I don’t think there will be a shortage of funders. We hate liars.
I suppose you/someone needs to explore whether it’s a feasible project to attempt.
Ponsonby has the goods, or Prof Robertson? Legal angles need to be explored, to calculate odds.
We see the Press especially ramping up the shite imo. Witness the Massie and Carrell pieces.
If only we had proper journalists.
Hi Rock.
You typed,
“All the signs are that the next Tory leader will postpone the Article 50 notice “until it is right for the UK to leave the EU”.”
Doesn’t matter what the next Tory leader may plan. The EU can force Article 50 if they feel that the UK parliament is prevaricating.
—————————————
Another fine cartoon, Chris Cairns!
@Ian B
Don’t feed it!!
Yes it was fantastic. Not to be reported on your BBC Scoland of course. For the BBC it never happened! We know better.
If the Tories postpone Article 50 notification indefinitely the Kippers will be a wee bit unhappy. Immigration will continue, the economy will suffer from no inward investment and inflation caused by a devalued pound. Best of all the EU countries will get more and more desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. I suspect we will see increasingly overt shows of support for Scottish independence. They may even hint at their willingness to recognise the legitamcy of a referendum not supported by Westminster. What better way to punnish the UK than to destroy it from within? What other country would leave the EU with that kind of threat hanging over them? Spain? The UK has been a bloody nuisance to the EU since day one but, make no mistake, they are bloody furious with the them right now. Their procrastination is also good for the Scottish government because it gives them time to build support for independence in a new referendum.
The Tories really are between a rock and a hard place now – if they call another referendum and Remain win they’ll be back to square one with their immigration “problem”. In fact, it’ll be worse than before because the Kippers will go ape shit! If they procrastinate the same thing will happen only in a slower festering sort of way. If they call a new general election, the Kippers will see that as a way of trying to wriggle out of the referendum result. And it would be pointless anyway because they are already in power. The support for UKIP has dropped recently in po?ls but only because, for now, they think it’s ‘job done’. Watch their support rocket skyward if there’s any hint of backtracking.
Yip. They’re fu@£ed! It’s a pleasure to watch and the Labour fiasco is the cherry on the top.
@Bill Hume
Yes, it will be carnage. The 57% increase in reported race hate crime in the last week will be chicken feed.
Sadiq Khan made a big show of saying he was getting those 3 nearly new water cannons, bought by BoJo, out of storage to sell.
He said any income will go to youth services.
heedtracker,
“Its happening all around us Rock, as each day passes more or more Brexit kicks in. Pull your head out of wherever it is now and read the news.”
It has hardly been a week, yet Brexit has almost been written out of the news.
Brexit is being quietly being put back into the box.
It is all about Remain demonstrations now.
The only ones who want Brexit are the “plebs” of England.
Since when did the British Establishment start listening to the “plebs”?
As many of us know, the referendum was not about Brexit, it was all about the Tory leadership.
Nae bad from rancid Graun. Yet to hear any UKOK media say out load, “we either shat all over the EU or kept quiet about it all for 40 years.”
link to archive.is
Listen to what it’s telling us. That the political system is broken, defunct, an outdated relic of another age and someone, anyone needs to take an axe to it. A Braxe. A Brevolution. A Briot. The under-18s kicking up about the fact their future has been sold out from under them. Something. Anything”
Brian Doonthetoon,
“Doesn’t matter what the next Tory leader may plan. The EU can force Article 50 if they feel that the UK parliament is prevaricating.”
I thought it was absolutely clear to everyone that the EU absolutely cannot in any way force Article 50.
Re the Article 50 postponement, if they plan to ignore the referendum result, they will wait until the summer is over before announcing that decision. They will have Riots no doubt, people more likely to gather on the streets in warm weather. Not so many riots in the middle of winter.
I do think they will try and wriggle out of the result, there fcked if they don’t and they know it.
Cal
The Prime Minister of Slovakia, Robert Fico will be almost uniquely aware of our situation, where we have come and what we have been through.
Without going into depth right now my understanding is that Slovakia was the poor man of the relationship before the velvet divorce and it was suggested and feared they would really struggle. Although there was initial capital flight I don’t think Slovakia have looked back and they have enjoyed excellent growth in recent years.
It is great timing having him take over the EU Presidency. Like so many other elements right now the planets seem to be aligning.
We have to ask why not one newspaper or broadcaster challenged the assertions of the anti EU right wing think tank over their Greece without the sun report. This web site does so….
link to archive.is
For example Scotland’s GDP per capita is more than twice that of Greece’s and whole article is based on premise that Scotland would be a member of the Eurozone which no EU joining state is forced to do without meeting several criteria such as two years VOLUNTARY membership of the European Exchange Mechanism and many countries including Sweden and Czech Republic just don’t bother joining
Worth reading the benefits of an Independent Scotland in Europe after Brexit:
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
Do not be so quick to dismiss Rock’s suggestion that Brexit might not happen. We are dealing here with Tories remember.
Apart from Michael Gove, all the potential next Tory leaders were in the Remain camp. OK, there have been suggestions that the likes of May was a secret Brexiter, but, we have no conclusive proof of this.
The City of London wants to stay in, so, pressure is surely being put on the Tories to sort out the mess which the electorate has made and keep England in.
Tories, being Tories, will lie, cheat, steal and prevaricate to stop triggering Article 50. They will find some means of convincing their friends in the media that the time is not right, something, anything, is not right, so, reluctantly, while they still intend withdrawing, they cannot at this moment in time trigger Article 50.
With the Labour Party in turmoil, all they will have to do is so-demonise UKIP, and point out, they are racists, and they might be able to pull it off.
Even by Tory standards, not triggering Article 50 will be a huge con trick, act of “tractor”-driving, but, if it means the survival of the Tory party as the ruling elite – they will try it and possibly (probably) do it.
The odds still favour England withdrawal, but, if the Tory party sees an advantage in staying in, it will happen.
Brian @10.18pm
Alas Brian, the EU has no power to force the UK to act wrt Article 50. There is no mechanism for expelling a member state. However, they can suspend it for a breach of protocal (there’s a list of applicable offences) such as negotiating separate trade deals with third parties like the USA, Canada and other commonwealth countries, for example. But they would never do anything underhand like that, would they?
Anyway, there’s more than one way to skin a cat – see my earlier post (which I notice hasn’t appeared yet!).
Cal says:
“UKIP”
Yes, they continue to hang over English politics big time.
Leave support was stong in the North of England and the traditional party there, Labour, is a mess. Also, the Tories might try to wriggle.
Many Leave supporters may already have changed their minds, but the majority are waiting to have promises delivered.
If a general election were called as an attempt to fudge EURef then UKIP could attract a lot of protest votes across England and the absolute worst is possible, a UKIP landslide.
It only takes 35% to form a government at WM.
England will get worse before it gets better.
@Tam Jardine
The Pesident of Slovakia is stating the obvious. He knows a break up when he sees one. Glad to have him on our side.
Chill, relax Tam, we’re getting there.
Truth be told I believe it’s already over and Independence cannot be halted. Wah! Wah! Wah! cry the remaining Unionists.
My heart bleeds. Tough, it’s over. Goodbye, and take your foodbanks with you.
Lenny Hartley,
“Re the Article 50 postponement, if they plan to ignore the referendum result, they will wait until the summer is over before announcing that decision.”
The summer will be over by the time they get the new leader.
And even Gove has stated that he wouldn’t trigger Article 50 before the end of the year and before “Britain was ready”.
Take that as never.
The reaction of Farage and the English “plebs” who voted Leave remains to be seen.
But remember, the “plebs” are almost completely powerless.
This was an unexpected rare moment of triumph for them but everything is being done to overturn it.
More important, just after a week it seems now (to me at least) that we in Scotland will also be back at square one.
Never underestimate the British Establishment.
Don’t even consider Independence as an option you thick Jocks.
Dae as yer telt.
Hi Rock.
You typed,
“I thought it was absolutely clear to everyone that the EU absolutely cannot in any way force Article 50.”
I certainly wouldn’t presume to know that anything re Article 50 was “absolutely clear”.
Here are two examples:-
link to europe.newsweek.com
link to publiclawforeveryone.com
It’s pointless to assume that something is a “fact”, if those at the sharp end don’t even know.
@ Valerie Thanks for posting I,ve put a post up on O/T (straw poll & pledge)I see no reason that people pay a Licence Fee to be told lies by a public broadcaster , as you point out Prof John Robertson who I spoke with some time ago re should I be taken to court for non payment I would cite JR & his reports He at that time agreed to my citing him in my defence.
If this is exceptable to the Rev & Wingers I will blast it on every Indy site.
WM cannot ignore the Brexit leave vote and then turndown an indy2 referendum without all the consequences that are sure to follow.
Can they…? Will they? Might they ? 🙂
Radio 5 which party do you trust after Brexit? Aye right.
You look after yourself Ronnie all things in moderation.
Rock , agree with you on Brexit, however it’s a bit strange that they have lost their seat at the big table without implementing Article 50. since they are presumably still paying their membership fees, you would think they would still be represented in the Council of Ministers?
Hahaha Independence for Scotland hahahahaha. Tossers.
Why have we started to call it Project Fear Mk 3 when it is really Project Hate from the Brit Establishment now.
In relation to Brexit I am pretty much telling everybody I know in Ingerland that Westminster is trying to cheat you out of your democratic vote. Like IDS inserting the knife into Gove’s back today I am doing all I can to annoy the English into getting Westmidden to press the article 50 button. Stick the knife into the Westmidden heel draggers England please!
Socrates
Andrea Leadsome (nope not a clue) is also a Leave type and is now being touted as possible winner.
STOP PRESS
BBC ANNOUNCE CHANGE OF TACTICS.
Main news after football a certain A Murray referred to as a Scot.
Many Scots faint and collapse in disbelief.
Slovakia as a model of velvet divorce, a bit about this from reuters, there have been others. Before reading it this bit is important:
“Seen from today’s perspective this was a divorce of two undercapitalised, developing-world economies,” said David Marek, chief economist at Patria Finance.”
So it’s not properly comparable to Scotland / rUK.
link to uk.reuters.com
Without a doubt we know where our bread is buttered. UK all the way. You stupid Scots gits!
Seriously, get a grip, Brexit will happen. A government cannot have a democratic referendum and then ignore the result because some people don’t like the outcome. This is not some dictatorship banana republic we live in.
What’s next, the Tories lose the next election and sat Fuck it, we like being in power get yer self.
People who even think that that outcome is even a possibility need their head seeing to.
Anybody annoyed yet? If not then I’m failing in my job.
God save the Queen.
Aha, Thepnr.
You’ve been overdosing on that which gives the Highlands that tang in the air, on a Saturday evening, huv yi no’?
One_Scot
You think the Brit Establishment will play ball when they could lose a fair chunk of their money laundering capital of the world, lose the only real manufacturing industries the have – motor cars
And see the cost of imports soar causing inflation, rising interest rates and the IMF being called in because they can’t pay their debts. If so, it you that needs your heid looked at.
@BDTT
I despair of the reading abilities of even such as Mark Elliot in your 2nd link. There’s a bit of a sequential hierarchy in any agreement, so number 1 is more important than number 2. If for instance Article 1 said “Nothing in this treaty compels anyone to do anything they don’t want to”, but Article 2 said “Every citizen of every signatory member state to this treaty shall run out of their house every morning stark naked and stand there for 5 minutes enjoying the fresh air”, well, we don’t have to because of Article 1.
So here’s article 4 of the Lisbon Treaty:
“Article 4
1. In accordance with Article 5, competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States. “
“ Article 5
2. Under the principle of conferral, the Union shall act only within the limits of the competences conferred upon it by the Member States in the Treaties to attain the objectives set out therein. Competences not conferred upon the Union in the Treaties remain with the Member States.”
Unless member States have conferred on the EU the right to implement anything it wants on the basis of even a member state’s legally binding referendum, the EU can do naff all to enforce the result of that referendum, because that referendum is the business of the member state, and comes under its legal system. Which probably includes in the UK the right of any citizen to challenge the result. And IANEAL (I’m not even a lawyer). But I can read.
@ Socrates
As mentioned by HandandShrimp, Leadsom is for leave, and so is Fox.
So in fact 3 out of 5 are Leave. But the Graun on-line seems to think Gove is struggling, and that the run-off will be between the two women.
Why is it that the only women PMs we’ve had/are likely to have are such raving right-wingers, when Wales and Scotland manage to have Nicola and Leanne? (I haven’t forgotten Ruth and Kez, or Arlene Foster who is not likely to be a closet leftie, but still…)
@Thepnr
Rue Britannia!
Ronnie Anderson @ 10.53
Don’t know if it will be of any help but I read an article a few year’s back,where there was some sort of court case in England.
Canny mind all the details but the gist of it was that the guy wouldn’t pay the licence because it’s against the law in the UK to give any help to terrorists.
He argued and won (apparently)that because the BBC broadcast that the 3rd tower on 9/11 fell well before it did that was evidence the BBC had insider knowledge and he would be breaking the law to give them any money.
Now I don’t know all the details and can’t find it again but if it’s actually true then at least we know it’s possible to win in court against the BBC.
So is there any word on who is replacing Bradford at BBC SNP BAAHD yet?
sandycraig says:
2 July, 2016 at 11:15 pm
STOP PRESS
BBC ANNOUNCE CHANGE OF TACTICS.
Main news after football a certain A Murray referred to as a Scot.
Many Scots faint and collapse in disbelief.
BBC Scotland: Scotland; Your Pictures:- Picture of garage door painted with Saltire and the EU Stars.
Do the BBC think that this sudden love bombing is going to work? The only imbeciles that think this spiffy idea are the arseholes who work for the BBC London or Scotland.
There is nothing more plausible than a plausible rogue!
Beware of the love bombing shit because it’s coming, tons of it!
It only proves how big a mouthpiece that the BBC is for the Westminster Elitist is, proven beyond any belief, they are scum, no friend of Scotland and never will be.
This is just the start of the great con. Sorry Scots are up to your game, Independence here We come!
I’ve been busy with private stuff for the last day and reading through the comments, I have to agree that the establishment at WM is trying to stymie Brexit and Article 50’s implementation.
I agree with Rock and others that we cannot trust the Brits…even now BBC Shortbread is on the attack rehashing the old shite about currency and oil being worthless etc. I listened to G.A.Ponsonby’s link where a ‘Professor’ called Ronald McDonald fer chrissakes, was dissing Scotland’s chances big time. The guy was living up to his name..a clown…and the BBC no doubt are paying him funny money (sorry!).
I find Bozo’s resignation and Gove’s self nomination for Pm as a total con designed between them to let both shysters off the hook…an e-mail from Gove’s missus makes blustering Bozo chuck it and ‘walk away’?… nah it’s distraction time..let Theresa May and all the other human cockroaches that infest the tory party scuttle for the leadership so that they can play for more time.
What I’m waiting for is when the Leave demos begin and how they play out. The English are not passive like us and the London. ‘mob’never went away. Civil Disobedience ‘poll Tax’ style might be the trigger to make the Tories make the leap one way or another.
I’ve tried my best to be an arsehole, wasn’t hard as I’m pretty good at being an arsehole. Now you may know how to spot one, they are just like me UK all the way!
Dealing with an arsehole though is more difficult, try scratching an itchy bum when walking down the High Street or the works canteen corridor. It’s not easy to hide but the bum is still itchy.
The only thing you can do is pretend that your bum is not itchy at all and wait until you get some privacy then scratch.
I say scratch that that bum if it gives you an itch. You are who you are and never be ashamed of that. You are a Yes supporter with an itchy bum.
Something to be proud of, it is those that brought foodbanks to our cities, towns and even villages. They are the ones that should feel shame.
I have nothing to be ashamed of, I voted YES.
Whether they chicken out on BREXIT or not, we (i.e. Nicola) seem to have gotten very useful precedents out of the EU in regard to how easy it would be for an indy Scotland to join/continue.
These should, if possible, be consolidated to the point where they would be very hard to backtrack on in the event of a successful indyref2.
If they do chicken out, then pro BREXIT parties like UKIP will make sweeping gains in England.
So even if they do, the future looks rosy for an iScotland.
@Thepnr says:11:27 pm
Anybody annoyed yet? If not then I’m failing in my job.
God save the Queen.
You are crap at being a troll Thepnr. You’re too well kent. You need an alter ego, another monicker like “sensibledod” or something. I get your frustration at getting people to stir and awaken though 🙂
@Brian Doonthetoon
Thanks for those links.
It would seem that the EU waiting for Cameron to trigger Article 50 by declaring it is an error on their part, i.e. he can’t, apparently.
Answers a question I had about that.
Cock of the Rock: “we in Scotland”
Since when did you move to Scotland?
You are crap at being a troll Thepnr. You’re too well kent. haha!
You need to pick on someone and be really really rude about them and then to them. Then you’ll be a troll for teamGB, my son.
Loved the placard saying “Fromage not Farage” seen in London pro-Europe march.
Something for weekend, sir? link to wp.me
@Chic
As far as I understand it (AFAIUI), if the EU works the same way as the UN you get two stages, signature and ratification. So AFAIUI Cameron could stand up there in the next Council of Ministers meeting and say “I invoke Article 50” and even sign the instantly thrust forward bit of paper, but it’s not actually invoked until the UK Parliament ratifies it, in the usual way. No idea which date would start the 2 years, probably though the ratification date.
Rough count, but at least three well-kent WOS commenters have, on this thread, stated that they ‘agree with Rock’.
It’s hard to quantify how many well-kent WOS commenters disagree with him because many of us are straining not to respond to him at all.
Difficult position for those of us in the latter category, eh?
Not difficult for ‘Rock’ – he can sit back and enjoy vicarious participation.
Three evenings, consecutively, he’s disrupted discussion.
How obvious does it have to become?
@Heed
Away back to the Grun Severin, and talk to your Slovenian girlfriend.
O/T – late night puzzle.
The only people HMRC, to my knowledge, have prosecuted recently for tax dodging, is this pair of film producers. They made films highlighting the nefarious practices of the MSM. They’ve been jailed for 5 years, and banned for 12 years from being a company official.
“Walsh Atkins, who gave evidence to the Leveson Inquiry into press standards, made the Starsuckers documentary in 2009. It had attempted to expose falling journalism standards by selling fake celebrity stories to tabloids.
The pair had been nominated for a Bafta in 2008 for Taking Liberties, a film about the erosion of civil liberties.”
link to archive.is
Meanwhile Peter Green skips off on one of his many yachts. Well at least justice is seen to be done sometimes.
Ian: “Not difficult for ‘Rock’ – he can sit back and enjoy vicarious participation.”
“Vicarious participation” sounds too much like sexual deviation.
He plays the role of homicidal SNP nationalist so that casual readers assume we’re head bangers and bigots.
Next he’ll switch to victim, the troll’s standby when universally challenged. Expect “Play the ball not the man” crapology, implying he’s a bawbag not a human.
Which reminds me, how’s that Bawbag novel coming along, Ian?
Capella: “Meanwhile Peter Green skips off on one of his many yachts.”
Didn’t the fragrant Rowling-Innit buy Depp’s yacht? That’ll get her sight unseen to her wee Scottish island.
(Depp – there’s a man in a muddle.)
If as some here suggest they do back out of Brexit, what are chances they will cite 52% Leave as not being high enough of a mandate (as some in the English press are suggesting?)
They might say the same for any Independence vote. I guess that means we have to be looking for a Yes vote of at least 60% or so?
Caledonius… that would make for some interesting backlash in working class England.
@ Grouse Beater
I’m afraid I’m not keeping up on the yacht market. But JK may well need to sail off to her wee island – of lawyers – from time to time. I can hear “Sailing By” strike up as we speak.
link to youtube.com
The latest BBC Scotland template rebuttal to protests over brazen bias is: “Do you have a problem listening to people who disagree with you?”
How about that for a specious piece of effrontery?
It comes in the wake of interviews with right-wing flaky pundits downing Scotland.
The presenter, usually a journalist, has absolutely no knowledge of his or her subject beyond a few handy headlines seen in the press. These are pout forward as questions. Here’s a most recent, “Is it true Scotland could be Greece without the sun?”
(He didn’t ask, “Is it true Greece could be Scotland without the rain?” – just as daft a contrived remark.)
The result? The pundits are never challenged as to their phony expertise.
That got me wondering…
They have a medical hour a week on ‘Call Kaye a Crashing Bore’. He’s a kindly old doctor who answers medical queries and problems phoned in by Joe Public.
Should there not also be a witch doctor tossing bones and stones across her desk to show us plebs good BBC balance, that there’s an alternative opinion?
Jist askin’.
Mare bad news. I just heard that they found mare oil in the North Sea – FFS!
Ian More: “Mare bad news. They’ve found mare oil in the North Sea”
Wurr awe doomed! 🙂
@Brian McHugh
Oh I agree, and I personally don’t believe they will back out of it for that reason, rise of UKIP to major party status and all that. I was just considering the impact on our Independence chances if they did.
@ liz g . Anythings possible in a court if the evidence is there & factual & people on this WOS have 1st hand experiance of Bbc Bias either Radio or TV,
There are still people who are paying the TV licence fee ,winning a court case against the Bbc would put a halt to anybody paying them.
Caledonius, Agree.
A UKIP General Election win in England would almost certainly be the final nail in the Union’s coffin.
OK Not laughing this time but being serious for a change.
Independence 2 we’re gonna win. Over and out.
Applicable to BBC ‘balance’ and Scotland’s missing civil rights.
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” Elie Wiesel, concentration camp survivor, who died this week.
@Grouse Beater
I curse every week that I seem to be in the car at that moment every week to hear some old dear, telling the Doc, she canny feel her hands.
Or you get the screeching of someone’s hearing aid, radio in the background, and the oldster is laying out their symptoms loudly, atop the cacophony. Kaye trying to shout, ‘Sadie, Sadie….’
It’s Stoneybridge…
@Grouse Beater
Many, many people only want to be on the “right side”. That’s how the Nazis and Hitler rose to power. Turns out though that this was the wrong side.
The majority just “go with the flow”, that may include you or I but I doubt it.
Choosing Independence is a big step for most most people, not you or I though I’m sure. We’re at the tipping point and I see many, many people wanting to be on the right side in a second Independence referendum. They will not be left behind.
Once we reach 55% of the popular vote then that will increase people will “go with the flow”. No one likes to back a loser.
Prepare for Independence, it is coming, of that I’m certain.
re; G.Beater@12.43am
Always doom laden regards Scotland’s oil. Like gold, it can be a curse, when your neighbour, near or far, decides it is theirs and theirs alone, They kill for important resources, upend legit and democratic governments, and stamp on the people, who dare to resist. Regards Scotland, propaganda and bullying has worked so far.
We may be in need of some support from our EU pals in the near future, Scotland has a lot going for it, and the UKok has far too much to lose by losing us. Democracy is such an obstacle for the greedy and power mad, especially when they want it all for themselves. UKok could have brokered a deal with Scotland, had they played their cards right.
Was just discussing with friends, the engexit thing, and how england may or may not cope as an isolated country, in the midst of neighbours all in the EU.
Interesting times.
@ Ruby @ 7:40 …. Carney link.
I opened the link, started watching the video and just when they got to the point where someone was grilling Carney my PC just, out of the blue, shut down. Started configuring and eventually reached 100%. I thought that would be an end to it but no.
I’m on my IPad now sitting staring at my PC screen which says ” upgrading Windows. Your PC will start several times.” Then there’s a circle that shows that it’s at 15%. Copying files at 55%. I’ve never ever seen this before. This has taken 40 minutes so far so looks as though I’ll be here all night.
Has anyone else tried watching that video and encountered any problems?
Valerie, the Pnr, Arty Hetty, I enjoyed your remarks. 🙂
Have a good Sunday, folks. I’ll just leave this here…
BREXIT could be expanded into a “package deal” that lets an independent Scotland stay in the EU as well as allowing the UK to leave it, according to an expert on European law.
Dr Merijn Chamon also says the SNP government should hold an independence referendum as soon as the UK embarks on Brexit to get the best deal from Brussels.
He said the untried Brexit procedure, known as Article 50, could be adapted to include a newly independent Scotland remaining in the EU – instead of leaving temporarily and rejoining as a new applicant – and could help it keep some of the UK’s opt-outs.
I’m now at ‘upgrading Windows’ …. in the circle 35%. ‘Copying files’ has turned blue so presume that’s been completed. Now we’ve moved onto ‘installing features and drivers’ at 12% and it’s still to cover ‘configuring settings’. I’ve never, ever experienced this before and wonder what the hell is going on!
Petra, that is normal Windows updates… make sure you just leave it to tun. Don’t switch your machine off or your Wifi for the internet.
Leave it to RUN. Typing in the dark. Sorry.
Petra
Could be wrong but could you be upgrading to Windows 10. I’ve been inundated with attempts to try and upgrade me…I don’t want it. Hope this is not the case.
Thanks Brian. I’m letting it run but it’s cracking me up because this hasn’t ever happened before. I’ve never seen this circle before.
Configuring yes but not this. Installing features and drivers has turned blue. Moved onto configuring settings …. 4%.
Get in there with the head down. Independence is coming.
Do not shirk, our cause is right. Foodbanks no more.
I don’t know what’s going on Cherry. One minute I was watching the Carney video and then it just started shutting down and now this long drawn out fiasco.
She could have done that too Cherry, but to be fair, I have been on Windows 10 for about 5 or 6 months now and the initial glitches have been sorted in the main and I find it a lot faster. I believe you can roll it back, so still would not be a good idea to interrupt it, once the upgrade has started.
You’re right Cherry. All of this configuring is over now and a message has appeared saying ‘Welcome to Windows 10’.
I’ve got choices now. Back, decline or accept. Jeezo I’m concerned that if I click on decline I’ll be here all night.
Yes Brian I wouldn’t interrupt it either.
Last week I had turned on my laptop and gone to make coffee, when I came back there was a notice counting down for the upgrade…if I hadn’t come back in time it would have upgraded without my permission…which I find out of order. I’m very happy with Windows 7.
Petra it’s possible that it’s just a normal upgrade but just let it run and then check what was installed. 😉
If you want to go back… choose that.
Decline if you don’t want it…I heard it’s very intrusive…big brother type thing. However if you want it accept up to you!!
Potted history of Greece (relating to stuff above repeating the usual myths) –
Greece never existed until 1820s or thereabouts. Or in its modern borders until the Balkans war of 1913. The 1820s creation owed as much if not more to the the European enlightenment (the likes of lord Byron going out there to fight) plus some local losing the plot with their Ottoman overlords.
Further back historically there was was never a country or kingdom called Greece.
Prior to Philip of Macedon, there was a collection of Greek speaking and cultured city states and regions that occasionally allied (such as against the Persians), but in more regular times they preferred to be killing each other, or planning to.
ONLY the Atticans (Athenians) played with a version of democracy. The others, prior to Philip’s arrival, were regular late bronze age kingdoms – e.g. dictatorships. Some extremely brutal – think Spartans and Stoics. Women were property even for the Atticans. Unwanted children were exposed – left outside to die.
Philip wasn’t a Greek, but admired their language and culture so much that he kicked the … ahem yes well, out of them. Alexander left Greece as a teenager to go a conquering towards India and never made it back (believed to have died in Persia). Philip ruled a Greek empire briefly, whether Alexander did in any real sense is debatable. ‘Empire’ split after Alex died and soon those parts of the world would have new very non-Greek visitors/rulers – the Romans.
The East West split in the Roman empire
I’ve clicked decline and it’s now saying we’ll reinstall your previous version of Windows but it might take a while. Then list of what I’ll miss out on. I’m just going to click on keep Windows 10 and hope for the best. Great how they just took it on themselves to do this!!!!!
Thanks for the help Brian and Cherry. Apologies to all for being O/T.
Noticed your last message Cherry and I’m going to decline. 2:04am now. I’ll see how long THIS takes. To reinstall.
Well…what did you do lol! Sitting here in anticipation 😉
All windows are big brother. Win10 is no different. If the authorities want to gain access to your PC through your Wifi, then they can. Win10 is more secure against hackers and spam/malware though.
@ Thepnr
Me anaw 🙂 A guid day. I had an office in Cockburn St at the time and suggested the Albanach as the most strategic meeting place.
Petra
What Windows do you have? I read that they want everyone to have 10…I think that is up to the buyer. Although I’m not certain but heard that eventually those not on 10 will no longer get updates or protection…a catch 22 really. I have a few graphic applications like Painter10 and a couple of others and I’m worried they wouldn’t work with the upgrade and they cost a lot of money when I got them about 6years ago…about £800 I couldn’t afford to just lose them.
Hope it doesn’t take too long for you.
Still reinstalling my own version. I don’t believe it. Normally this wouldn’t bother me too much because 4 hours sleep is my norm but I’ve to be up at 6am to pick up US relatives by 7am to take them up north. Some things are sent to try you!!!!
I’m on the Parliament live TV for the Carney trillion thing.
I’m on a Kindle, which uses Android. It’s a bit jerky. The whole file is 67mb.
The meeting starts at 14.46 and the bit for the trillion is around 15.06, when Tyrie, the Chair kicks off, and drones on, because Carney keeps saying that’s sensitive, or that’s political, and not for me to comment.
Honestly, Carney comes over so inarticulate, but I absolutely know he is a clever man, and can speak very fluidly and articulate. Here he ems and awws etc.
In his recent speech, he challenged the room – anyone here think they cannot see the effect of Brexit?
Thanks Brian I wasn’t aware of the hacker/protection angle … however I still think it’s a bit much forcing it on folks. I know my computer illiterate hubby would freak out if he had it upgrade on him. Nice to know you’re the man to find if I need advice 😉
Well that’s it thank God. I declined Windows 10 and it’s taken 24 minutes to reinstall Windows 7.
Once again thanks to Brian and Cherry for their help and apologies to all for being O/T.
Off to bed. Up at 6am.
WIndows 7 mainstream support date ended 13/01/2015, but the Extended support ends 14/01/2020, All versions.
@Petra, if it’s any consolation thanks for the warning, I’d be installing Win 7 Pro on my new computer – if I had any dvds to burn the install, or any USB stick large enough to take it! Pack of 3 8Gb ones in fancy colours ordered for £9 delivered. I’m in no rush.
From what I read if you have automatic updates, Win 10 can get downloaded automatically, but supposedly not installed. But others disagree.
@Valerie
After Carnie’s Edinburgh speech during the Ref, the media misrepresented him so much the BoE put out a special statement on its website, along with the transcript of his speech.
Still didn’t stop the media continuing to misrepresent him.
Bollox – posted half potted history of Greece, here’s the rest –
East west split in the Roman empire would give birth to the Byzantine Empire – Greek language, culture and religion but otherwise very Roman in outlook. It was not centered in Greece – the likes of Athens was abandoned. (As late as 1800 Athens was a village in a forgotten rural backwater). The Byzantines were eventually toppled by the muslim Ottomans, but Constantinople didn’t fall until over a century after what you know as Greece had been overrun.
Nothing remotely resembling Greece (even in the form of a collection of states) had existed for almost 2000 years when the European Enlightenment became fascinated by what they decided was a noble ancient Greece (Athens of the North stuff, Germans and French were well into it too). And thus began the myths. Myths that, when combined with angry peasants well pissed with their muslim overlords, would begin to create a country called Greece that had never actually existed before.
To avoid the development of alternative powerbases, Ottoman rulers deliberately suppressed the emergence of a middle class and prevented modernisation across their empire. The 1913 Balkans war (which ‘liberated’ modern Northern Greece) was fought in many places with spears, bows and arrows and flintlocks. Most western Europeans (like us) have no conception of how backwards that part of the world was – by deliberate Ottoman policy.
This is not unrelated to today and the slagging Greece and Greeks take is extremely ignorant. Most of us have no idea what those people have been through – some within living memory (inc my in-laws).
Greece never had an industrial revolution like us – the Ottomans saw to that – that’s primarily why it’s so agrarian to this today.
But it wasn’t over in 1913, they were then ravaged by 2 world wars, civil war and decades of military dictatorship – that my in-laws lived through.
The story of those people and their culture is mindblowing – remarkable in the truest sense. That their culture has survived those millenia of enslavement and subjugation is amazing. That they sometimes still get their governance and economics wrong can be forgiven in a flash given what they’ve been through. (We’re not so perfect ourselves). Their progress in forging a country, however imperfect, is worthy of nothing but praise and admiration. To judge them by N Western European standards is completely wrong. To even make comparisons is wrong.
The nasty neo-lib press and think-tanks are full of it – ignorant and despicable. All things considered, the Greeks are doing pretty damned well.
Without many of the advantages we have in our struggle, they have survived much worse than we have ever known. They deserve our support and admiration. And when a little more of their real history is known, they are an inspiration to us.
If Greek people and culture can battle through what they have and still be standing distinct and proud, we can be clear that we will prevail. Our pride will be in prevailing without shedding one drop of blood. How trivial an enemy Westminster really is!
No hastles… I’m glad Stu is asleep, he will go berzerk at all this off topic. Better end it now eh? LOL
@MJS Dundee
From a science point of view, the Greeks nicked it from the Alexandria Library, but scientists were quite respected. The Romans nicked it from the Greeks but the “artisans” were despised. And so a flat earth and all those little lights in the sky revolving around our centre of the universe planet carried on for a long time afterwards. Or something like that. Meanwhile on the 5th planet of a faraway star system Boris Johnson is standing for Mayor of a town called Babel. Aye, you couldn’t make it up.
Night all.
Petra says:
3 July, 2016 at 1:20 am
@ Ruby @ 7:40 …. Carney link.
Ruby replies
I don’t have these Windoze problems because I’m on a Mac. 🙂
Sorry if I sound smug!
I didn’t watch the video because I really had to do some chores which have been sorely neglected since the Brexit announcement and all this new and fascinating news.
My solution to all Windoze problems would be to get a Mac. 🙂
@MJSDundee
And some people will read this, and people still want to turn their back on Europe? They are blind.
To add more, and beware, I’m on thin ice because my knowledge is sketchy… but modern Greece and its affairs was a factor in the cold war. Towards the end of WW2, there was a brutal trade off; the Soviets would not protest when the British and non-communist partisans sought to win a civil war against communism in Greece, (communist partisans who had fought the Nazis) in exchange for the Western allies adopting a reciprocal “indifferent” attitude towards what the Russians did with the territory they occupied. The West however reneged; the Soviets were denied influence in the Pacific, Africa, and Western Europe; where to the victors went the spoils; but when it came to territories taken by the blood and guts of Soviets, what later become the Eastern block, the Western Allies were demanding access and the extension of western ideals and democracy.
I’m not an apologist for Stalin or communism, but we should appreciate the extent to which Western hypocrisy and double standards contributed to the Cold War and Soviet mistrust of the West. The British wanting to crush communist Greek partisans the who had helped defeat the Nazis while Stalin looked the other way was a defining event in forming the subsequent mistrust which gelled into the Cold War. The Soviets saw the West was happy for communists to die for the Western cause, but would turn its guns on communism in a heartbeat. Looking at the modern Middle East… well…what can you say?
So Carney was talking about bank assets! I can’t say I fully understand bank assets I do remember Max Keiser saying debts were bank assets. All very confusing!
What about the non bank assets. The UK Gov didn’t want to inform us what about those. This article states it’s £1.3 trillion.
link to tinyurl.com
A lot of talk about politicians/the press lying to voters during the EU Ref. I would say we were lied to during the IndyRef.
Lied by ommission.
For example this thing about assets and the fact that the UK Gov failed to approach the EC for a definitive answer re EU status.
If the EU are saying that Scotland could be put in a ‘transitional holiding pen’ is that not what Alex Salmond more or less said during the IndyRef?
Chic McGregor says:
2 July, 2016 at 11:50 pm
Whether they chicken out on BREXIT or not, we (i.e. Nicola) seem to have gotten very useful precedents out of the EU in regard to how easy it would be for an indy Scotland to join/continue.
Ruby replies
Barrosso lied and Alex Salmond told the truth?
O/T Windows 10 is free.. for now.
There is a new version of Windows 10 being released on 2nd August 2016.
link to itpro.co.uk
Ian More @ 12:37
I’m sure Westminster will horse trade it away for something.
OT
In case, like me, anyone else has noticed that euronews live has just become a little more difficult to access on line (funny that) here#s the working live link. link to euronews.com
Ah Greece! The Chooky Embra’s Schleswig-Holstein folks made an arse of it. Compton Mackenzie’s worth a read on the subject. Thought Phillip looked gharstly yesterday by th way, poor sowle
Youse remember the morning after the Scottish Ref’ result, when you woke up in a foreign country & thought you’d never laugh again!!
Regarding the postponement of article 50. I do not think it will be left postponed, and will indeed be implemented, for the simple reason that a failure to implement may very well break the Tory party.
Let us not forget that the previous Tory Prime Minister, John Major, actually resigned (albeit temporarily) owing to the in-fighting going on regarding the EU within the Tory party.
If anything, the division on the EU is even more severe and raw within the Tory party than it is across England. Those senior Tories who are rabidly anti-EU are not about to let anybody stop the process of leaving, now they have got this far. They care little for the damaging effects it may have upon ordinary folk.
The delay in article 50 in my opinion, is merely to get people used to some of its effects. Over time, people forget how things actually were before this all started. It is cynical, but that is what is being done. People manipulation 1.01.
Although I have always been a supporter of Scottish independence, I must say, Scotland’s only hope does now seem to be ending our outdated and undemocratic treaty with England, so as to enable continued membership of the much larger, more democratic and more valuable union with Europe.
Re. Windows:
Only one good word to say, UBUNTU!
Takes a little while to learn and some Windows exclusive progs can be ‘difficult’ but there are excellent Open Source alternatives that are free.
With Gimp for graphics and Open Office for word processing, spreadsheets etc. and Firefox for browsing most folk would be sorted.
O/T,
Regarding the windows 10 problems, Up in Seattle (the home of microsoft), this nightmare created by Microsoft has been in the news a great deal. One woman even sued microsoft for damages to her business- and won.
link to seattletimes.com
Many people do not have access to Euronews. (not part of their package) accessible on Sky but suggect to interference. Sky can be suggest to interference and bad reception. Euronews gives a good EU/world view but sometimes not totally accurate (up to date). It claims 400 million viewers. Accessible viewers or actual viewers?
It gave a report , on the loop, that planes were taking off from Lossiemouth, scotland to bomb Syria. It showed them. When Scottish MP’s had voted not to bomb Syria without international consent, because it served no real purpose. Just caused more deaths, poverty suffering and migration throughout the Middle East and Europe.
The migration and suffering throughout Europe has been caused by the US/UK and (France) illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years, on behalf of Apartheid illegal States and absolute despot monarchy. They have been illegally sanctioning countries and taking all their Oil. Instead of helping to reconstruct the destruction they have caused. The people have no other choice but to migrate all over the world because of the actions of the West. Destroying the world economy illegally. Breaking International Law.
War criminals. Brown/Blair/Osbourne and Cameron should be put in jail for what they have done. The hardship they have caused vulnerable people. The Tory Queen should be retire for breaking the Law and interfering in Government decisions. She is supposed to be impartial. The only benefit of a Monarchy. The Head of State is only a figurehead with no powers. The Tory Royals are interfering in Gov encouraged by their Tory cousins and associates. They should shut up and slim down or they are passed their sell by date and their usefulness. They participate and support illegal wars when they are supposed to be neutral and impartial. Cost £400Million. Tax evaded £Billions.
The Tory Royals multimillion revenues have gone up 3% in a recession and austerity.
Some of the vulnerable people who endured the war receive £7,000 or less (UK) Gov pension. Many (women) are only paid out of their husbands contribution, often later. Leading to poverty. The average wage is £27,000.
The British/European interbred Royals caused the 1WW and the suffering. People tried to stop them to no avail. ‘The divine right to rule’. Millions died because of their intransigence. Universal suffrage 1928. The illegal Partition of Ireland 1922. Gladstone a Liberal. The Balfour ( secret illegal) Agreement 1917 – the right to a Jewish State in Israel on Palestine land. Unelected Gladstone/Lord Balfour/Rothschild. The Russian Revolution 1917.Russia saved the West in the 11WW. 26MillionRussians died. 1 in 6.
The trouble is the majority in Britain/NI wanted to stay in the EU. The Referendum was flawed. People were lied to and the unpopular, back stabbing Tories are now committed to taking Britain//NI out against the majority wishes.
It will trigger Independence in Scotland. That is good. Only self governance and more powers (with EU protection) will improve the Scottish economy and lead to a fairer more equal happy country. No more Westminster illegal, secrecy and lies. Buried under the Official Secrets Act.
Ruby: If the EU are saying that Scotland could be put in a ‘transitional holiding pen’ is that not what Alex Salmond more or less said during the IndyRef?
Correct.
“Discussions on transitional arrangements for an independent Scotland to remain in the European Union (EU) after the UK leaves are taking place in Brussels, a senior adviser to the European Commission (EC) has disclosed.
Dr Kirsty Hughes told MSPs discussions are taking place about putting Scotland in a “transitional holding pen” after Brexit to avoid “an absurd out and then in process”.
She urged MSPs to hold a second independence referendum by summer 2017 at the latest, if it is judged to be in the best interests of Scotland, to allow the EU to start work on these transitional arrangements.
However, she warned the EU “does not want a mini-UK” and said Scotland is unlikely to keep the UK’s “awkward squad” opt-outs of the euro, justice and home affairs and the UK budget rebate.
Holyrood’s European and External Relations Committee heard from a range of experts on Scotland’s position following the UK vote to leave the EU on June 23.
Experts agreed it is extremely difficult to envisage a situation where Scotland remains both in the EU and the UK, suggesting independence is the most likely route for Scotland to remain in the EU.”
What we can opt out of, such as the Euro, will depend on what we can afford to take on, and the EU conditions attached to those elements.
Many of the soldiers who fought in the 1WW were physically in an unfit condition and were under nourished. The Flu epidemic and sickness at that time in Europe cause more deaths than the 1WW. The 1WW stared because of interdependent Treaties (Look it up) The King, the Kaiser and the Czar. Royal cousins. Queen Victoria (German) Grandsons. Inbred European Royals married cousins. Their parents were cousins. ‘The divine right to rule’ Handed down by ‘God’. Absolute monarchy. Brainwashed people. In poverty. Ever increasing population, ever increasing poverty. People were culled. Population in Europe (without migration) is in decline.
Akex Salmond has been right about everything for the last thirty years. MI5 did a hatchet job on him. Westminster secrecy and lies tried to discredit him. If the truth had been known Scotland would have been Independent (in Europe) long ago.
O/T
link to facebook.com
BEWARE of this SCAMMER HARRY SAHM AkA STEPHEN LYALL.
of YESSIE 2 campervan .
Several warrents issued for his arrest at Glasgow Sherriff Court,he,s well known in the Indy movement.
Scotland will remain in the EU with generous negotiations, according to the wishes of the Majority of the Scottish people and their democratic vote, which did not include EU citizens resident in Scotland or 16/17 year olds.
Some people did not receive their polling card for the EU Ref, although they are registered to vote. (council authorities).
Mark Carney (Canadian migrant) is Osbourne’s spokesman. He is emoloyed and paid by Osbourne. His cronie. Carney says everything Osbourne wants for a big fat salary. They are associates milking the public purse. He will be tax avoiding as well. He agrees with Osbourne’s policy even through they are rank and bad for the economy. Austerity. Robbing the poor to pay for the rich. Tax evading etc.
Carney (Osbourne) agreed if Scotland voted for Independence there would negotiations and an agreement would be worked out. Compromises would be reached and Scotland could/would use/share the £.
Osbourne lied in public. Project Fear. Many people voted NO (Indy1) because Scotland was promised more powers. This was reneged upon. Less people will be fooled again.
@ Grouse Beater
Are you on holiday in Spain?
I would pay less attention to a Right Wing Extremist Think Tank than my Dentists Fish Tank.
Day after Day we subjected to Elitist Propaganda that is so outrageous in its claims that Joseph Goebbels would blush.
As long as the feeble minded and vulnerable are exposed to this drivel as their only source of information, it will
some hearts, minds, and votes.
We must endeavour to educate and advise everyone the we encounter to the fantasist journalism, that exists only to
blind you from the wealth of genuine opportunities that are available to those willing to seek their own objective
view point.
Ask yourself why the Republic of Ireland’s economy is growing at 6 times that of the UK’s when they are a smaller nation than Scotland. Why are they further down the road to paying their debts, why is their currency gaining ground on the £pound?
Ireland never had Oil revenue in the past, and won’t have it in the present, or future.
So Scotland is Not too Small, Not too Poor, and the Jury will soon be passing verdict on Stupid as Indy Ref 2 looms.
Have you ever hear of Ireland raise the question of re-joining the UK, where their resources are acquired by a neighbouring nation that will stifle the advancement of Irish democracy, economic opportunities, and its culture.
Ireland is only one of the 53 Independent, and thriving, former commonwealth colonies who now stand proud as thriving independent Countries.
Scotland must read this more obvious road map to a brighter future free of the shackles that Westminster have welded around its neck!
Just had a rather scary thought. If Westminster outside the EU does a trade deal with the USA we may end up getting TTIP. Privatized NHS anyone?
@ Grousebeater 8:30
I can live with a referendum concluding by Summer 2017… That gives us a year give or take.
My radar is beginning to suggest we have a couple of “don’t scare the horses issues” beginning to brew.
Don’t mention the UDI word for now, and whatever you do, don’t start asking what is wrong if Scotland actually does want to join the Euro. O…..K….. But personally I think the Euro’s star is rising.
Are we going for the treble? Don’t mention BBC bias?
Between the Indyref2 website and Dr Robertson, there seems a growing disconnect here; first class ammunition for contesting the bias, but so far no tangible consequence being apparent. The BBC is just taking the piss now, but still getting away with it. It’s the one area above all others where there is deafening silence from the SNP. Come on Nicola. A vengeful media scares us all but don’t leave these folks exposed and under appreciated for their vital contributions.
Effijy says:
“Scotland is Not too Small, Not too Poor, and the Jury will soon be passing verdict on Stupid as Indy Ref 2 looms.”
Indeed! If the Scots don’t choose independence under the current and unfolding circumstances then we never will.
link to archive.is
Intriguing little article about European politics. Says nothing about Scotland, but the Scottish Government looks like trying to fit itself in with the pragmatists.
Good arguments for Scotland not moving to join the Euro quickly.
(Rev Stu has pointed out that this can’t be part of accession.)
There will probably be a large structural deficit in the first few years of an independent Scotland. Scotland would need time to adjust its economy to the needs of the growth and stability pact. (A small matter where we should be talking with the Irish government – substantial opportunities here to design the tax and benefits system to promote sustainable growth and a greener economy.)
Rather less greenly, oil production will remain an important part of the Scottish economy, probably for about 15 years (recovery of oil price to about $75 per barrel, which is the level at which the Saudis maximise their profits is likely in the medium term). That probably excludes Scotland from being part of a European optimal currency area because the Scottish and the European economies are unlikely to move closely enough in step together.
Otherwise, a pragmatic solution, which would give up the budget rebate and exemption from the Charter of Fundamental Rights, would probably fit well with the expectations of our European partners, especially Frau Merkel.
More than half-way through Andrew Marr, and still the S word has not been uttered.
Maybe Michael Gove will give us a mention, but, it appears, this is “Britain’s” problem (Britain being England), and the Scots don’t matter.
@ Cal
That is already happening Cal the cronic underfunding in the health service in England is to get people used to the idea of private health care by making public health care bad,hey if they can get them to chuck away their human rights that one should be easy.
In Scotland though we have built a big wall with barbed wire arround ours and big sign saying keep yer paws off tory scumbags on it.
Though by slowly reducing the pocket money to poor wee stupid Scotland`s idea of democracy they will eventually put the Scottish government in a position where they can no longer fund it to the levels they would wish and then the stark choice will be to allow more of it sold off into private hands or not be able to care for the people who need it.
We do have time on our side though as they do in Englands health service first,only a tory would consider money before the value of life despicable people.
Lets not give them that chance Scotland only one way to stop that from happening and that is to be free.
Could the EU amend article 50 along the lines of, the country that has decided to pull out after a referendum has a time limit on pulling the trigger. If the trigger is not pulled say within three months then the EU can pull the trigger. Would this amendment need the signature of all 28 current members or could the 27, minus the UK, amend the rule?
Never mind the Brexiteers of the Tory party, the EU will no put up with this being drawn out too long.
@Artyhetty says: 3 July, 2016 at 1:13 am:
” … Was just discussing with friends, the engexit thing, and how england may or may not cope as an isolated country, in the midst of neighbours all in the EU.
Interesting times”.
Very clear and insightful understanding of the real situation as regards The Scottish Kingdoms relationship to her only partners in the, “United Kingdom”, Artyhetty. Would that a few more Scots could see things so clearly.
As someone pointed out, though, politics has always worked on certain lines. One of them is the, “Tipping Point”.
It seems this is due to a large proportion of the public being inclined to, “Switch Off”, at the very mention of politics. Now I don’t mean they switch off their radio, TV, or connection to social media, they switch off their brains.
Then, when there seems a political event of any kind, is inevitable, they follow the herd and we have a, “Tipping Point”, event and another, “Landslide Effect”, happens.
I think that point, in relation to Scottish independence, has just occurred.
Windows 10
Don’t let it in your computer, decline, resist, it’s the spawn of Satan filled with Goblins to thwart the normal workings of your life, and must be destroyed
It’s a hellish nightmare to which there is no awakening, if you succumb you will be drenched in panicked sweat for days in your efforts to remove it on the realisation you were duped into the promise of a better and more rewarding computing experience
You have been warned
Cal says:
“If Westminster outside the EU does a trade deal with the USA we may end up getting TTIP. Privatized NHS anyone?”
I think that is exactly what Brexit is really all about. Unbridled right wingers turning the UK into the USA.
TTIP on steroids, that is what is coming.
The irony is that ordinary working class folks actually voted for it believing it was all about something different.
Com’ on Tommy. (Sheridan), who committed no crime but fought again the Poll tax and stopped warrant sales in Glasgow, He did more for the vulnerable in Glasgow/Scotland than any other politician. The Scottish Justice system should not be blocking his right to appeal to the EU Human rights Court at The Hague. That is the right of any EU citizen. The Scottish Gov should admonish his predudice conviction and pay him compensation. He did not commit any crime. Rupert Murdoch did.
Murdoch is a lying criminal who public Officals, illegally hacked people, prints complete lies and tax evades. He is not a fit person to own a printing Press business. Murdoch is a Non Dom tax evaded and should not even own any MSM in the UK. He is a criminal, warmongering liar and should be in jail with the rest of his associates in the Westminster Parliament who he bribes with impunity. Public Officials. That is illegal in Britain/US.
Tommy sue Murdoch in the US courts. No US based business can bribe public officials anywhere in the world. Punishable by prison.
If the Leveson recommendations were introduced in Scotland. The Press could be fined and sanctioned for lies and misleading ‘Headlines’, the Illegal VOW breaking purdah etc. Ordinary people could have redress for the Press lies. No a two lines apology at the back. The Press will not regulate itself and breaks the Law with impunity. There are no proper controls when the Press are in control of the complaints of the complaints procedures. The government has a duty to ensure a free and balanced Press in a democracy. That does not happen in the UK/NI.
NI (2 million pop) has more independent powers and is subsided by the Westminster Treasury to Norwegian levels. It raised £28Billion in taxes, gets £14Billion (50%) from Westminster = £42Billion. (Norwegian) levels @ UK Gov accounts. Scotland gets £Billion taken from it because of Westminster policies. £10Billion+ which could be better spent in Scotland.
Scotland (5.2 million pop) raises £54Billion and gets back £50Billion. Osbourne has tried to deliberately destroy the Scotyish Oil industry. taxing it at 60/80% when the price had fallen 75%. He continued to tax it highly and stopped production and projects (with no alternative). Losing thousands of jobs and importing more Oil. Losing Scotland £Billions. £4Billion+ tax a year = £20Billion+ in lost production and jobs.Trident/illegal wars costs Scotland £1Billion a year. Scotland can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £1Billion. Scotland has to pay Westminster loan repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. Approx £4Billion a year. The rest of the UK raises less than Scotland in tax revenues (pro rata) £10Billion+ less a year. The rest of the UK Borrows and spends £75Billion (+ £20Billion black hole) = £90Billion a year. UK/Scottish Gov Account website.
Scotland pays approx £4Billion to Treasury for Defence Bill. £16Billion for (UK) Pensions/benefits. Gets £30Billion Block Grant it pays for everything in Scotland.
Wales is underfunded £1Billion+ A year. Westminster does not divide revenues equally between London S/E and the North. Causing deprivation in the North. The North/South divide.
@Dr Jim
Windows 10
A bit like Brexit then? 😉
They can abolish the Barnett Formula only if Scotland gets full control over it’s economy. (With EU protection) Making all fiscal decisions. Scotland would be better off.
Gove tries to conflate IRA terrorism and a second IRef. Scotland should get back in the UKOk box.
That’s alright then.
Got news for the twisted snake, Scotland is a Nation and we shall be free!
I have to agree with frogesque 100% Windows is pure spyware, honestly once you get used to Ubuntu or any other Linux derivative you’ll never look back a bit like independence, you can even run it from a CD/DVD/USB without fully installing to try it out first nothing to lose everything to gain
Graeme
Hey folks.
Am assuming when the Rev publishes traffic on wings since the EUref it’s going to show a massive increase.
I think it would be good to have at the top of the home page above the wee black book ad that is always on top and bullet point of the 5 main facts supporting independence that people ask about and are going to be rehashed by the media in the coming months.
Nothing complex just 5 main stand out facts.
I.e – oil prices and how Scotland gets only 8% – GERS figure lies and the mythical black hole – facts about the euro currency and how we wouldn’t be forced to use it and whatever other misconceptions the Rev think are appropriate. I think like headlines it will grab attention and people who are unsure might delve deeper.
Links
link to theconversation.com
Dossier of No campaign’s ‘broken promises’ published by SNP
link to archive.is
link to prospectmagazine.co.uk
link to holyrood.com
@ Almannysbunnet.
Good question. I remember in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit result, there was comment about whether the EU Commissioners could interpret the referendum result itself as the trigger for Article 50, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.
But even if Article 50 is explicit in saying it must be and can only be the UK which triggers Article 50, it still isn’t the end of the story.
I’ve mentioned it before, but I think the Commissioners might right now be scanning the small print in various agreements to find some article or other which the UK might be in breach of, and prompt instant expulsion or more likely, bring about some “deemed to satisfy” triggering of article 50.
One obvious breach might be the UK discussing unilateral trade links with a non-EU state. That’s going to really tie the UK’s hands if they observe it, but breaks EU law if they don’t. As I understand it, please somebody correct me if I’m wrong, if a formal breach of contract is implimented, amongst the various other things which happen, it formally ends that contract, which isn’t always the best option because there is no contract binding the parties. I believe you cannot un-breach a breached contract and turn back the clock, you need a whole new contract and good luck getting one signed. Never be too hasty to terminate your contract.
The EU won’t expel the UK, because that’s last resort country and finishes everything, but a breach of protocol or EU law might become leverage to “encourage” the UK to trigger Article 50 itself.
It’s one for the lawyers I think, and a period of walking on eggshells for the UK.
Listen to Dr Jim avoid windows 10 like the plague
Go to u/ Tube and see the problems with Windows 10 if you have and watch a lot of DVDs you are as we’ll tossing them in the bin because 10 doesn’t include a media player so you either give Microsoft more money or you install a third party player even then not all your DVDs will play.
If you do happen to instal it you have 30 days to remove and continue with your installed version if you miss that date and that’s it you won’t be allowed to install your previous version or use your Computers recovery partition to revert to factory settings and remove Windows 10
A still yet to be solved common flaw is the black screen problem , this is when you turn your Computer on but your screen remains blank some widely installed graphic cards drivers Windows 10 blocks and you are obliged to use Microsofts preferred ones.
In the past few weeks Microsoft have been widely criticised for sneakily trying to force users to instal 10 by reversing the option to install option so when you click on don’t install you are actually doing the exact opposite, Microsoft promised to stop this practice.
DONT INSTALL Windows 10
Socrates MacSporran says:
3 July, 2016 at 9:41 am
More than half-way through Andrew Marr, and still the S word has not been uttered.
I must offer a correction, Socrates, Marr did ask Gove if he would allow a 2nd Indy Ref in Scotland.
Gove replied that “there is no appetite for a 2nd Ref”.
No challenge to that final statement?
Gove is as close to public opinion in Scotland as the Moon.
But there you are, when one of our slave masters speak, we do not have the right of reply, or anything else.
The man has based his life on Dicken’s Uriah Heep:
His character is notable for his cloying humility, obsequiousness, and insincerity, making frequent references to his own “humbleness”.
His name has become synonymous with being a sycophant.
He is the central antagonist of the Brexit campaigne.
The man appears to serve Boris, Brexit, and the UK with undying support, while sharpening his knives for the kill that is very soon to follow!
link to theglobeandmail.com
link to irishtimes.com
extra-date-where-next-the-snp-and-the-road-to-independence-a-conversation-with-tommy-sheppard-mp-tickets-26218715885
OT. Blair won’t face War Crimes at the Hague.
“Prosecutors at the International Criminal Court will examine the Chilcot report for evidence of abuse and torture by British soldiers but have already ruled out putting Tony Blair on trial for war crimes, The Telegraph can disclose.
The decision has outraged families of troops killed in Iraq who blame Mr Blair for engineering the war.
Sir John Chilcot’s report will finally be published on Wednesday and is expected to strongly criticise Mr Blair’s role in the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.”
Today’s Telegraph Archived.
link to archive.is
Ronnie Anderson @1254.
Surely the most obvious example of BBC lies is the whole Nick Robinson affair with AS’s speech in London? The good Prof. Robertson must have a mass of evidence too.
Are you looking for folk to give examples O/T?
Forgive me for this one, and probably only ever, time of posting a Radio 4 link.
However it is really funny, especially when considering how painfully cathartic it must be for much of their Home Counties listeners.
link to bbc.co.uk
Microsoft Gates were guilty of restrictive illegal trade practice in a free market. Tax evasion. Blocking competitors making there goods more expensive. Blocking free trade worldwide. Illegal in the US. They were taken to Court in the US found gulity and but only got a relative small fine. They are a disreputable company.
Labour should have totally supported Colbyn and protected him at the present time. It is just unbelievable. All they care about is themselves. They are just so ignorant and incompetent. He is the only one without blood on his hands and some morality.
Tom Harris – ‘there is a bully politican working against the country’s interest.’ Him. HaHa.
Manx radio discussing Indyref 2 now listen to it online
Undisciplined Rowley about to stab Deputy Deadwood with pencil sharpener when she goes off to America shock!
A ‘senior labour source’ says. 🙂
Effijy
You are correct, Marr did raise the Scottish issue with Gove – after I had last posted.
I agree, Gove saying there was no appetite for a second Indyref simply showed how out of touch he and those in the Westminster bubble are.
He hasn’t got a clue about Scotland.
Gove would be better asking Oliver Twist if he has a good appetite.
Wee Ruthie must be his Scottish advisor Lol.
Hi Nana.
Your ‘Irish Times’ link is broken. Here it is sorted:-
link to irishtimes.com
Shut you cakeholes Jocks
Or even if you don’t shut your cakeholes we’re not listening to you anyway, you unimportant miserable whingers
That’s todays message from our political caring would be leaders in the land of geniuses who got us into the biggest mess since time began
We must wait yet again for all the important English political classes to decide amongst themselves what they will decide to do to us and there’ll be no more said about it
All 4 of our separate but politically United Nations had a vote and England won, we might as well just have had a game of football to decide but England was allowed 50 players on the park and the Ref was a Welshman
Our Parliament
Nicola Sturgeon shoved it right up Queenies nose yesterday and rightly so, who does that incredibly offensive benefits cheat think she is coming to my Parliament and lecturing my representatives to be calm and reflect but in the end wait and do as you’re told
We have little political power in our country thanks to some of our countrymen and women being completely misguided and voting to have authority held over us by another country who couldn’t care less whether we live or die just as long as our worthless oil revenues are still flowing into their country, and it’s so worthless they had to cordon off part of the North sea to get it by moving and stealing recognised international borders halfway up the Scottish coast, but of course that was probably for our own good as we’re not genetically programmed to govern ourselves
Folk say it’s a time to be nice to those people who voted NO but i’m afraid I’m not in that camp, every single one of them should be shouted at in no uncertain terms and told the lies they were fed are now correctable so get on board and start helping to fix the mess you got us in
For those diehard Yoons who would go down with the English ship and drag Scotland with them I have another answer for them but i’ts illegal, so I’ll just say this you will be remembered by history as the foulest of people who betrayed yet again the Nation of Scotland and took pleasure in it
Thepnr @ 9:29, that was a great day. Took my Mum through and was at the Bar… a guy gave me a wings badge, as Stu had given them all out… I bought the guy a pint in return. I want to get back to those days full of hope so bad. ?
@ Lenny Hartley 11.11
missed it, what were they saying?
I believe although not EU or UK, Isle of Man benefit indirectly, and through various agreements. And they didnt get a vote did they?
Usual BBC politics grot Ligger Neil style this morning but new Mayor of London now demanding devo for London. Mayor Khan wants more fiscal devo London region than Scotland’s been allowed since 1997.
frogesque says:
3 July, 2016 at 8:15 am
Re. Windows:
Only one good word to say, UBUNTU!
Takes a little while to learn and some Windows exclusive progs can be ‘difficult’ but there are excellent Open Source alternatives that are free.
With Gimp for graphics and Open Office for word processing, spreadsheets etc. and Firefox for browsing most folk would be sorted.
Ruby replies
Oh great we’re talking operating systems & software today.
I like that!
Agreed re Open Source software. Brilliant.
Gimp & Open Office is availabe for Windows too.
Tux Paint is good! It’s for kids but I love it!
Someone mentioned no dvd player on Windows. VLC is a good dvd player.
link to videolan.org
I have Windows 7 with Parallels on my Mac it seems OK although I almost never use it.
Windows 10, no thanks.
Doesn’t have drivers for things like my drawing monitor.
Will be making sure my computer is off when away on holiday next week.
Henry McLeish there firmly deciding that he’s undecided on anything except that narrow nationalism is bad.
It appears that news reports of Mr McLeish having a road to Damascus moment last Friday were premature.
(SIGH)
Sigh.
Sunday morning nearly done and absolutely nothing has happened in the Revolution.
I don’t know. Perhaps if I march up and down the yard for a bit it will pass the time and make me feel I’m achieving something.
Then in the afternoon I can browse the internet for effective antihisalimine for orangeness.
Henry McL on Sunday politics saying maybee Aye maybee Naw! (for umpteenth time) but modestly turns down a suggestion that he puts in a leadership bid for ‘not’ Scottish labour.
But he reminds us that the SNP must not go it alone for Scotland in the EU, as the labour party should have a say and that its up to Deputy Deadwood to get her neb in there.
I think I mentioned a while ago I started a defrag on my hard drive and went shopping. Came home a couple of hours later and windows 10 blinking out at me ready to go. 🙁
Overheard in cafe:
I see there’s one less Djock in the tennis then… 🙂
Bought and sold for Yankee Gold.
Sucb a parcel of Goves in a nation.
Just trying to catch up again – almost impossible! – after a family occasion.
Didn’t watch the Marr prog, but – correct me if I’m wrong – I don’t imagine that yoon toady pressed Gove very hard over his wishful thinking re indyref2.
Which would be par for the course. Only after EUref was over do the incisive “journalists” of the BBC discover that the Brexiteers have no “Plan A” for anything. Scotland included.
And even now, it seems, they can’t get their puir wee heads round the notion that Scotland is heading for the exit and their UKOK pipe dream is rapidly turning into a nightmare.
liz g says:
2 July, 2016 at 11:38 pm
Ronnie Anderson @ 10.53
I would support any such action as you describe Ronnie and Liz, and agree there is now a mass of evidence out there to use in any legal battle with the BBC should it transpire.
In terms of publicly calling out the BBC and Unionist press, it seems to me it might be easily done by the First Minister through the democratic procedure of First Minister’s Questions.
Surely it would be perfectly reasonable, and acceptable to the Presiding Officer, for an SNP MSP to ask a question along the lines of “(citing clear example of misinformation /lies such as we are witnessing on a daily basis):Does the first Minister agree with me that such blatant misinformation by the BBC to its Scottish audience is totally unacceptable and a clear breach of its Charter to provide factual unbiased information to the population?”
The wording could be modified of course, but it would give Nicola an excellent opportunity on air to take the initiative in the media storm we are witnessing. She also has a great way of hitting more than one target with a question like that. Unfortunately there might not be any opportunity to do this now until the next session of parliament although should parliament be recalled at any stage over the summer (quite possible) it may be that in any debate/ questioning of the FM, the chance might arise.
I think of the recent events following the Brexit vote and the fact we are moving so confidently forward in Scotland hinges on the statement on air by Nicola that she would not be hanging about waiting on Westminster to make decisions on our behalf. In other words she acted as if we are independent already, and I would suggest somehow she can do the same with regard to the media; in this she would have the support of all of us in Scotland who are utterly sickened by the malevolent nature of the MSM (National excepted)in Scotland at this most important period in our nation’s history
On Brewer a botched regicide over Corbyn and they should look to the Tories for lessons. Gove a ‘well respected’ expert.
Meanwhile in the smaller world of ‘Scottish’ labour that story
link to archive.is
Ken500 says:
“They can abolish the Barnett Formula only if Scotland gets full control over it’s economy. (With EU protection) Making all fiscal decisions. Scotland would be better off.”
We wouldn’t be better in the UK like that because we couldn’t quite make all decisions. We would still have to contribute to defence, WMDs, and debt repayments.
With Indy we would spend at least a £1b less on defence.
As part of the Indy negotiations we would need to trade off assets ( military, overseas property, etc etc) against the debt we accept. The UK’s assets are almost as much as the debt. So Scotland might end up with half/third of our pro rate debt when we relinquish assets. Could save £3b a year in repayments.
So full Indy is much better than FFA with the UK.
Nicola has to be seen to explore ‘inside UK’ solutions to show respect to IndyRef1 result, and to appease Lab & LibDems. When it all proves impractical (which I am certain it will) then we move to IndyRef2. I hope Lab and LibDems will accept that as the only solution an come onboard.
@ Petra 2:02 am
If you don’t want windows 10 then run this program from
link to grc.com
It a small run once and implements the official Microsoft Group instruction to never install Windows 10.
It won’t roll you back though.
I have to use Windows, XP at the moment, soon to install 7 Pro on new computer to use XP Mode – as I have programs I use for biz. But I endorse the comments about Ubuntu from what I see, it’s free, active forums, I run a dedicated server on Linux and the Ubuntu help forums are active, I think there’s a club in Scotland.
But you don’t have to install Ubuntu to try it, you can run it off a CD / DVD / USB stick – try before you install. I’ve an old Ubuntu Live CD I burnt, and it’s what I used the other week when I had a hard drive overheating to test out the rest of the computer worked OK and hadn’t melted along with the drive’s power and data lead.
link to ubuntu.com
Breeks says:
3 July, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Sigh.
Sunday morning nearly done and absolutely nothing has happened in the Revolution.
Ruby replies
If it makes you feel any better there has been a revolution in my mind ie a psychological revolution.
I find I no longer care what Gove, Henry McLeish, Corbyn, Andrew Marr etc etc say I am already living in iScotland and all that stuff is happening in another country and on top of that most of what they say is a load of ‘mierda’!
Test
Not on Twitter but I saw Brewer give Ruthie Tank an easy ride on his show and why must we always have anti SNP people on at the end with their slanted views.
I also see that no Slab MPs have the guts to challenge Corbyn.
“L’unité fait la force” (Unity makes strength)
I’ve just been reading the latest blog from WGD, and he raises an important point re trade with rUK that I had quite missed:
If iScotland intends to stay in the EU while rUK exits, Project Fear #2 has a big problem: it won’t be rUK versus puir wee Scotland, it’ll be rUK versus the great big EU. Whatever trade deal rUK agrees with the EU – and it will certainly have to get one with a trading bloc that large – will necessarily have to include Scotland. No exceptions.
That’s just one example of the real payoff of staying in the EU. We can’t be pushed around by our former colonial masters.
This post is about computers
I was trying to find software that would transpose an audio file (ie the GMS McLaren/McDonald discussion) to text which I think would be very handy. I discovered that there is a ‘Speech to Text App’ (it’s like Dragon but it’s free) on the Mac but I think you can only dictate.
Anyone got any further info?
I have tried
fireebok e-book to audiobook
which converts text to speech. It was fun to play with, experiment with all the different accents but the results are a bit dodgy but still it’s pretty incredible.
Ruby,
That’s an attitude that we have to get over to the undecided. Behave as though Scotland is already independent, in imminent prospect if not quite yet in reality. Convince the hesitant that it’s coming, it’s inevitable, so just relax and “go with the flow”.
I tried to put links to articles in the Sunday Business Post – Ireland’s premier Economic and Political paper here but it is all premium content.
Some choice points;
– morning of Brexit result all the senior financial officers in British based major financial institutions received a registered letter from the head Irish Industrial Development Authority. It looked at bit like this link to amazon.co.uk
– Irish Taoiseach attended meetings in Europe and treated any suggestions that there needed to be a 500km hard boarder with the North a bit like this link to nuku.co.uk
Also spoke up for Scotland continuing as a member of EU
Biggest problem facing the Irish Vultures circling the economic corpse of London’s Brexit – housing shortage in Dublin for fleeing economic barrow-boys.
It’s a mystery why anyone gives a toss what McLeish thinks about anything – spontaneous street parties are unlikely to happen across the country whenever he makes his mind up either way.
Boring fud.
@ruby
can you play the audio out through a speaker and back in through a microphone to the dictation app?
Thousands protesting in England against Brexit, over 4 million have signed the petition now, but I don’t see that working as at the first hint of back-tracking, such as a mention of a rerun of the Referendum, the ‘Leavers’ will be out on the streets leading to riots or even some kind of civil war.
The saddest thing about all of this, the greatest lie of all, is that many Brexiters are more concerned about the colour of your skin rather than where you actually come from and think they’re going to see England rid of ‘black faced’ people with Brexit. Nothing could be further from the Truth as when Westminster prevents people coming from the EU and many of the EU citizens return home even more individuals from Commonwealth countries will fill the vacated posts such as in the NHS, something that people like Dianne Abbott tried to tell them to no avail. Scotlands link to the Commonwealth will end no doubt when we become Independent.
As to Indyref2 it looks as though we won’t have to deal with issues (lies) relating to the EU and NATO next time round as both of these arguments have been knocked on the head. That leaves us with currency, pensions, the economy and security, imo. I’m sure Nicola and her team will be well prepared to cover all of these issues but of course until that time we’ll be subjected to the propaganda machine going at full throttle. It won’t surprise me either to find that between now and polling day Westminster’s security services will identify Scotland as being the most terrorist ridden country on the planet with a network stretching from Dingwall to Dumfries. Not wanting to be alarmist but a wee bomb going off here and there may be seen to help their cause too.
We all know what WE have to focus on now and I think Kevin Evans (10:22am) makes a good point. It would be really helpful if visitors to this site could zoom into data relating to key points such as oil, pensions, economy, assets and so on. It would be great if videos such as McCrone, stolen seas, Cameron and Osborne on our oil versus Norways etc was also easily accessible.
Last night I was at a family gathering and one of my sisters-in-law, who voted to leave, was going on about the EU and saying that she won’t be voting for Independence next time round. Ummm … very disappointing, especially as she’s fairly bright. I pointed out that I wasn’t too keen on the EU either but it could change and if not we could hold our own Sexit following getting our Independence. Anyway I mentioned McCrone, stolen seas, cost of grids in Scotland versus England, depopulation, Scotland being only one of 9 countries out of over 200 to have Trident, Cameron slipping up re. our oil and so on. She said “that might just be a load of propaganda. Where can I find data to back that up?” (wee black book of course which I’ll be ordering). I said on YouTube and that there was loads of data on Wings, however people like her aren’t going to go searching through Wings looking for relevant information. It would have to be slam bang right in their face, so wondering if Stu would think of putting / having some key videos / some key articles on the home page, as suggested by Kevin, as we know that many people won’t ever read Stu’s books at all.
O/T
Thanks to everyone on here who has mentioned Windows 10. I declined the download but it, most annoyingly, took hours to resolve.
I rather fancy a petition to Queenie to refuse the Cameron resignation.
Ask that Cameron should submit under article 50,
and
Johnson, Gove and Farage should be put in charge of Brexit negotiation team.
Cadogan Enright says:
3 July, 2016 at 12:51 pm
I tried to put links to articles in the Sunday Business Post – Ireland’s premier Economic and Political paper here but it is all premium content.
Ruby replies
These articles could be available on ‘ProQuest’ that’s where you can read articles from all over the world using your Library card (even if they are behind a paywall. (Well at least you can with your Edinburgh Library card) I can for example read The Times articles. Sometimes you can’t get them until the next day that depends on when the article was printed and sometimes it can be tricky to find the articles because the online headline is nearly always different to the print/hardcopy headline for some strange reason.
Does the Sunday Business post give you a preview like The Times?
If you put a link to the preview then people who have access to ProQuest would probably be able to read the articles.
Hootsman:
Scotland set to lose £200m a year in funding after UK leaves EU
link to archive.is
Not press ganged but a reluctant voyager in the life boat nevertheless. 🙂
link to archive.is
Glamaig says:
3 July, 2016 at 12:52 pm
@ruby
can you play the audio out through a speaker and back in through a microphone to the dictation app?
Ruby replies
You are brilliant!
That’s a great idea! I should put the audio file on my ipod and play it throught the microphone.
I’m going to try that!
Sure there will be some errors in the text but that would be easy enough to correct it will certainly a million times easier than trying to type out the whole thing!
Ruth Davidson :
A bigger barefaced liar would be harder to find than this obnoxious woman
A few weeks ago on STV to Bernard Ponsonby proclaimed loudly and clearly as she always does that she opposes any referendum on Scotland’s Independence and her considered advice to David Cameron was to inform Scotland’s FM to “Take a hike”
Today on Gordon Brewers programme she declares she is a democrat and Scotland should have a referendum if it wants one (even though she opposes) and she has always said that
But once again she raises her ugly threat of the UK not doing business with Scotland should we be Independent
This is the ugly face of the Tories and she pulls off being an ugly natured person along with it
Murdo Fraser can be proud of his red white and blue blood soaked in orange sectarian leader there
No Surrender Tories just like the No Surrender Labour lot, Party first and to hell with the country
Henry Mcleish has been doing his see saw act for years he told Alex Salmond years ago he would join the SNP This is a man like all previous Scottish FMs (except Eck) who couldn’t tie their own shoelaces without a nurse including the biggest waste of space Donald Dewar, why on earth this man is accorded any respect just because he’s dead is beyond me
We should beware of creating and rewritng history more glamorously and untruthfully than it actually was or we’ll end up as bad as folk like Neil Oliver inventor of Scottish History and chief scribe for Englands version of everything
Ruby, re your posting @ 10:25, 02.July (still catching up),
All kilted regiments of the WW1 period wore the “Black Watch” tartan, I believe. (Excepting the hodden grey of the London Scottish.) It’s the “government tartan” from the days when it was proscribed for all except the Highland regiments of the British Army. And was retained for traditional reasons thereafter.
Teresa May was just picking up on that heritage, I suppose. It may possibly be the only tartan she (or her tailor) has ever seen.
There’s no accounting for taste, of course, but to my mind the Black Watch is a lovely subtle tartan, far more attractive than that dreadful garish Stewart thing.
Where to start? Yet again our lives in Scotland are being decided by the race to the bottom that is the Tory leadership contest. I despair of Westminster even more this week than I thought was possible.
And where is Labour?
I know there is a spirit of conciliation and all that but I am really not getting the feeling that there was anything more than a bit of foot stamping and faux outrage from Slab No voters after the EU vote.
They remain fixed to their self destructive path and with Kezia at the helm, the direction they appear to be taking take on Indyref2 (and Corbyn) seems as bizarre and suicidal as ever. Their default position seems to be reset.
Ruth D. is completely tied up in knots with regard to the UK leadership having bizarrely said Crabb was her political soul mate despite his views on curable homosexuality. She really is floundering under even a little scrutiny these days – and that was really a very gentle interview on SPol.
Also, how much of a whitewash will Chilcot be?
bjsalba at 0107pm . As far I am aware Oliver Letwin ( on extreme right of Tory party) is in charge
of Brexit negotiations).This guy won’t hesitate to use EC citizenship in the UK as a ” bargaining chip” in any negotiations ( if they eventually commence), hence the statement from the FM regards ” guarantees” for EU residents. Also he would use Scotland as ” a bargaining chip” if he could get away with it . They will have no scruples over this.
Ruth Davidson: will sell Scotland and its people to her paymasters for pennies, she is a shallow mouthpiece for the Londinium establishment, a face for all occasions. Totally untrustworthy and insincere, selfishness is her only positive asset, and that is not a good thing, in my opinion.
She will go far in the Tory party, she has all the qualifications.
Ruth Davidson got the respect of a lot of people, including me, over the years before the Holyrood Election, and she earnt it. Since her success in May, she’s just as steadily losing the respect of a lot of people, including me, over weeks, not years.
She’s learnt to get a lot quicker!