The unsurprising twist
Posted on
June 26, 2017 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
This was David Mundell on Sunday, guaranteeing that any extra money produced for Northern Ireland to secure DUP backing for the Tory government would be matched by more funding for Scotland (as much as £4.5bn under normal Barnett Formula rules, because Scotland has nearly three times the population of the province):
And here’s the truth 24 hours later:
Who could ever have etc?
(Our first reaction was that this is nicely arranged as a convenient opportunity for the Scottish Tories to wade in, heroically “stand up for Scotland” and win the extra cash in a big PR victory for Ruth Davidson’s dozen new MPs that the tame Scottish press would be all too keen to write up in frothingly glowing terms. It may still be.)
Well, that was entirely… expected
Wow…….who knew that by voting for a Scottish Tory MP you would be ensuring extra funding for Northern Ireland….hell’s slapping…but do these voters care ?…..probably not….more pain for no gain seems to be the general consensus for proud Scots but….
Over to Mundell and Davidson….unless they go missing while in…..inaction….as per.
The Maniac Monday Agreement.
Hopefully that deal with the bigots will fall through
I can’t decide whether:
a) this is a set up for Colonel Davidson to come charging in astride a tank to ‘save the day’ for Scotland;
b) this is a cock-up with Mundell getting the wrong end of the stick and in fact there was never any intention to translate the DUP bribe into a Barnett consequential;
c) this is a set-up for Colonel Davidson to be brought down a peg as she may be getting a little too big for her army boots as sundry London Tories with eyes on the prize are getting nervous; or
d) to k) something else entirely that I’m too dim-witted to comprehend.
Mundell: “I’m not not going to agree to anything that could be …” Ha ha ha. So Mundell will be resigning as Secretary of State in indignant protest? Aye right.
If this deal does not fall under the Barnett formula and Scotland gets no additional money as a result of the Tory-DUP coalition deal.
Can we then expect David Mundell to tender his resignation for misleading the people of Scotland?
More of the same “jam tomorrow” lies from the Tories.
When are folk in this “Country” going to wise up and grow a spine.
What’s the problem? Scot Tories have 3 MPs more than the DUP.
Surely they’ll stand up for Scotland before the party.
Won’t they?
How on earth can anyone take Scruffy Fluffy seriously?
Let’s face it he lies about his job, claiming to be the Secretary of State FOR Scotland. WE all know that is a flat out LIE. His REAL job is as tea boy (Junior Grade) to Feartie McFeartie, nothing more nothing less.
I mean even his part time job as Consul General to Scotland is only a fantasy of his he is NOT in any way, shape or form in any position to hold such a position!
Hell men those who voted Onionist against Scotland.
Never hated anyone in my life but the WM govt (including Mundell) is making it so much easier by the day.
Liars all
I’m seeing a pattern forming between Tories and pledges.
An absolutely disgraceful situation.
Another example of how the Union as operated by Westminster is undemocratic and unfair. Westminster has too much power and abuses that power.
We need to end this Union, preferably by ending the Union, but until we are able to do that, we should assert Scottish sovereignty within the Union, so Scotland has the power to say deals like this DUP sweetener, that shortchanges Scotland, are unacceptable.
Not surprised. Mundells is just a useless little pussy cat, he probably wasn’t even at any of the cabinet meetings. What he says counts for nothing, a man who nobody listens to.
In the normal course of things the budget has to be passed by a vote in the HoC. The government can’t simply whip this issue as is the implicit threat in who they had sign off on it. If Mundel and Davidson are true to their words then it should be simple enough for them to flex the muscle having as many MPs from Scotland is supposed to give them.
I didn’t expect it to occur so soon, let’s see how these unlucky 13 Tories stand up for Scotland. Maybe the Rev could arrange some donkeys hats to be sent to the South & NE of Scotland.
“a) this is a set up for Colonel Davidson to come charging in astride a tank to ‘save the day’ for Scotland”
Yup – that was my first thought too. Get ready for the BBC hailing Ruth as Scotland’s saviour and next FM when she battles May and delivers 3Bn additional funds for Scotland in the next week or so. This has it written all over it.
Obviously that assumes that the “government” don’t take this opportunity to increase all budgets in line with Barnett including that of England. Given there’s probably going to be a huge market for emergency removal of cladding and upgrading of tower blocks it’d be easy enough for that to be credited to some of England’s quota. Given that such work would generate jobs then a large portion would return in due course to the Treasury.
Will DM be challenged on this? If he does it’ll be a quick right ok. Now moving on. The BBC has learned that the SNP are indeed badder than anyone had previously thought. This recent report from an independent think tank (Tory) shows clearly (see graph) that since 2007 the level of badness has grown compared to these obscure figures obtained by FOI from previous years.
The UK is great.
There’s been a murder.
There’s a cat up a tree.
And here’s a look at the headlines again.
Scottish Secretary David Mundell says no new referendum bla bla bla
Mundell’s ‘get out’ is that he said ‘Barnett rules will ensure the APPROPRIATE funding comes to Scotland.
‘Appropriate’, in this case, obv means ‘fuck all’.
Can’t wait to see what sort of excuse Mundell comes up with.
But wait a minute – will he have to? Will the Scottish MSM pursue it or just accept the usual gabble?
Well that’s the first of Mundell’s promises down the tubes, no money.
Now onto the next one, more powers for Holyrood, what are the odds. The observant may notice his new powers is a lie before he even starts as what he means is we will not remove all the powers that are currently devolved.
Thinking about it though, given her track record there’s little chance that May will afford anyone are Westminster the opportunity to vote or sign off on this deal. The Chief Whip having done so might be a clue as to how this will go should anyone complain.
“‘Appropriate’, in this case, obv means ‘fuck all’.”
Well, ‘normally’ it does.
Mundell, you know our love was meant to be
The kind of love to last forever
And I want you here with me
From tonight until the end of time
You should know
Everywhere I go
Always on my mind
In my heart
In my soul
Baby
Mundell, you’re the meaning in my life
Mundell, you’re the inspiration
You bring feeling to my life
You’re the inspiration
Want to have you near me
I want to have you hear me saying
“No one needs you more than I (Mundell) need(s) you”
And I know (And I know)
Yes I know that it’s plain to see
So in love when we’re together
Now I know (Now I know)
That I need you here with me
From tonight until the end of time
You should know (Yes, you need to know )
Everywhere I go
You’re always on my mind
You’re in my heart
In my soul
Mundell, you’re the meaning in my life
Mundell, you’re the inspiration
You bring feeling to my life
You’re the inspiration
Want to have you near me
I want to have you hear me saying
“No one needs you more than I (Mundell) need(s) you”
(No one needs you more than I)
Want to have you near me
I want to have you hear me saying
“No one needs 1.5bn quid more than I (Mundell) need(s) you”
(No one needs you more)
Mundell, you’re the meaning in my life
Mundell, you’re the inspiration
You bring feeling to my life
You’re the inspiration
When you love somebody
‘Til the end of time
When you love somebody
Always on my mind / No one needs you more than I
When you love somebody
‘Til the end of time
When you love somebody
Always on my mind / No on needs you more than I need 1.5 billion quid.
This may yet turn out to be a nice setup for the North
British Tories to appear useful.
Then again it may not.
Let’s see if Scotland can secure the contract for the firewood Arlene orders to replace the last lot.
Aye, have to agree. Colonel Gadaftie to the rescue!
Just goes to show that a large contingent of SNP MPs could extract far more from a Labour minority government than a bunch of Slab careerists.
No doubt Ruth Mugabe will be spared an embarrassing interview by BBC shortbread. Instead they’ll probably ask ” should the Barnett formula be abolished?”!
I don’t think yoons will bat an eyelid.
If anybody thinks the Tank Commander is going to be given £4.5 billion for Scotland, they are dreaming. The Tory shires would go full on ape were that to happen – AND the Welsh would have to be give £3 billion or so too. No, Scotland won’t get a ha’penny. Ruth can blow and bluster, ut it’ll lead nowhere.
Cue Healdines of “Impotent SNP fail to raise their game as funds head to Belfast!
Ruth will not be far away from this and cue her saying
“Ive made it clear to the Prime Minister, and make no mistake, I clearly made its as clear as I could make it, it really couldn’t be clearer. I now await a positive response and once again ask how can the SNP sleep at night?”
David Mundell..his acquired role is representing the Cabinet to Scotland, seems to have got his nouns mixed up somewhere along the way I fear.
So great to have someone like Fluffy standing up for Scotland.
Fluffy Mundell, yer other national hero!
What an absolute scandal.
How can this be interpreted any possible way, any differently than straight up buying votes for cash, not even guaranteed votes just promised (confidence & supply) ones?
Leaving aside the very valid questions around the magic money tree, the Barnett formula and even the seriously suspect nature of the DUP’s position on various human rights (religion & right to choose etc.) does anyone know the answers to these questions…
As we know from GERS, Scotland is ‘charged’ a portion of the budget for UK infrastructure projects like HS2 etc. What percentage / how much will this deal cost us?
How is it even possible for a single party to agree to spend of this type without a vote in parliament. In business terms, surely the CEO (Tories) have a responsibility to the board members (Westminster) and to the shareholders (you and I) to seek approval of deals like this?
Where has democracy gone?
Keep it up!
All more grist to the Indy mill.We’re gathering momentum with everything coming out of WM these days!
Well that’s it folks. Another Westminster ‘Vow’ bites the dust.
Mundell the man that keeps telling us (lying to us) that Scotland has the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World proven to be an out and out liar once again.
No crumbs are coming our way. Instead we, the Scottish tax-payers, will now be forking out millions to pay for 10 ignorant, evil NIrish bigots to rule the roost over us, alongside the narcissistic Tory Party that the Scots recently overwhelmingly rejected (once again), and at such a crucial time … Brexit / the Repeal Bill.
This £1.5bn reward money could be the tip of the iceberg as the deal gets reviewed in 2 years time. And what of the ‘agreements’ that we wont hear about? The DUP would have had plenty to say about Scottish Independence no doubt. ”Now is not the time” will now be ”Never, ever. No Surrender.”
As infrastructure appears all over NIreland, and they shore up their NHS etc, we’ll be faced with more poverty stricken children, boarded up shops and with the sight of more Orange Order walks / supporters mincing their way around even more pot-holes in Scotland.
NIreland that contributes little to the economy in comparison to Scotland, and of course receives more per capita in relation to Barnett already, has landed on their feet as we sink deeper into the mire.
It’s wakey, wakey time folks. Get your finger out, join the SNP, donate to their site (it wont be for ever) and get your clogs on and start pounding the beat getting the word out there. It’s a Custer’s Last Stand time for us ALL now.
The only thing transparent about the DUP deal is they can make money laundering handshakes with the UK government for the price of a hired muscles in time of need.
The whole charade is repulsive.
Anyone interested in my meeting with Nicola, here it is: link to wp.me
Rooth the mooth and fuddydale stand up and speak for Scotland, I think not
Apologies for going O/T so early peeps. Well it is and maybe it isn’t O/T can’t quite make my mind up about it myself. 😉
Apparently there is a rather large hunk of junk about to set sail from Rosyth to begin “sea trials” in the North Sea and Moray Firth. I’m just wondering if perhaps this announcement today of the mega bucks “donation” to the DUP is a Tory ploy to misdirect the public. We will all be so mad and angry about this that we will be totally unaware of one of the Forth bridges being hit by a large hunk of steel later on tonight! 😀
link to news.sky.com
Should anyone be as mad as me and want to follow the upcoming antics they can do so here. 🙂
link to marinetraffic.com
I don’t even understand why this deal was needed. The DUP were never going to do anything other than support the Tories while the alternative is Gerry Adams’ mate, Jeremy Corbyn. So May has basically bribed the DUP to do what they were always going to do anyway.
She’s an idiot.
Mr Mundell we love you
Is your love for us really true
You probably will, break our heart
Cause lets be honest your a lying tart
The day will come, when you will go
But you’ll appear somwhere else, with a brand new show
But please don’t let it be, in the land of the celt
Cause the stink you leave will still be smelt
No cash > No aircraft carrier…..sorted.
Majorbloodnok: could it be
d) – nobody in power pays any attention to what Mundell says?
Rumours are at the next cabinet meeting they have been instructed the following attire is mandatory as agreed in the DUP deal.
link to shop.lilmstees.com
Pretty slimy from David Mundell since it was fairly widely known that anything the DUP got would be ex-Barnett in a time of continuing “austerity”
£1 billion.
That is astonishing £800 per person in Northern Ireland!
The price to the entire UK for buying the DUP.
Perhaps they will restore the £3 billion cut from the Scottish budget since 2010 and call that the Barnett consequential.
Chocolate ration increased again!
Mundell will only get the same for Scotland if he also gets NS to give up on A 2nd Independnece referendum. That will be his lever.
Clapper57 1.08pm. I’m sure the proudscotbut loyal are quite happy for their norn irn brethren to get a nice handout at their expense.
So, it appears, a £1 Billion “donation” to Northern Ireland under Barnett rules should see a £4 Billion “donation” to Scotland.
link to twitter.com
It must be great being a Scottish unionist politician knowing that you have the unconditional protection of the Scottish unionist media shield.
Oh and I forgot to mention that the DUP want the unelected Nigel Farage to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. God help us all. How did that one go down? The ‘wee problem’ that delayed the deal?
And when May gets kicked into the long grass, as she will, who’s up next? She was said to be the best of a bad bunch FGS. Who’s left? Hammond, Gove, Rudd or Johnston?
link to youtube.com
……………….
‘The train is coming. Get onboard.’
C’MON FOLKS. SUPPORT NICOLA STURGEON AND THE SNP.
link to youtube.com
G @ 1.36pn
Brilliant, from now on: Colonel Gadaftie” she is. I hope everyone can join-in on this one.
Could have forecast this…..Mundell(or any tory) cannot be trusted regarding getting best for Scotland
I would be surprised if anyone was surprised!
Have posted a comment on the BBC about this story no swear words but have mentioned what Mundell had to say just waiting for email saying I have broken the rules and post removed just like my last post about the Tank and her fisherman friend.
So all we need to do is slaughter 3,500 of our fellow citizens kill 300 policemen and soldiers bomb the fuck out of our country and a few hot spots in England, and we’ll get the Tory party’s ear.
What an absolute insult to democracy. Blood money to prop up a Dead Party Walking.
The Curfew does indeed toll the knell of parting Tories.
Just one sex scandal, a heart attack and an expenses fiddle away from crashing.
That shouldn’t take long.
Disgusting.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The unsurprising twist This was David Mundell on Sunday, guaranteeing that any extra money produced for […]
This is actually quite good becasue the little Englnaders will moan about norterhn Ireland getting their tax payers money and for once leave Scotland alone.
Next. … let the Brexit shite storm commence.
Then … IndyRef2.
While the English will moan about their money going to Another Ireland they won’t be moaning about Scotland. Have the government took the sofa to bits and found a shed load of money.
Mundell also said that Scotland would get more powers after Brexit, not happening. Mundell also said that Scotland’s interests would be represented in the Brexit negotiations, not happening.
Mundell only gets called into the Cabinet Brexit discussions “as and when required”. So that’ll be when the tea needs pouring and the biscuits need handed out.
When they spend our money in England with no Barnett consequences, it’s called National Infrastructure Spending. Wonder what it will be called when it’s Northern Ireland?
Mundell and his lackeys will have load of egg on theri face. sit back relax and watch the farce continue
We should concentrate on making our own deals to regain our independence like offering £10 a week on the state pension in a new independent Scotland (as an example then deals between the Tories and the DUP wouldn’t matter a jot.
We shouldn’t expect to be treated with respect by Westminster while still shackled to them.
We’ll have had oor tea then:
“Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson has backed the deal and called the SNP’s opposition “absurd”.”
link to stv.tv
Latest BBC report on the matter: –
Mr Mundell was also quoted in newspapers over the weekend as saying that he would block any “back door funding” for Northern Ireland if it meant the other devolved nations missing out.
Downing Street said the Barnett formula does not apply to the new money as it is being provided as an addition to the Northern Ireland Executive’s block grant.
In a similar way, the formula did not apply to city deals in Scotland and Wales, or previous packages of support for Northern Ireland, a Number 10 source said.
The city deals saw £500m spent directly in Glasgow, £125m in Aberdeen, and £53m in Inverness, but the investment did not impact on Barnett consequentials elsewhere in the UK.
Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson argued it was “absurd” to criticise UK government spending on top of Barnett in Northern Ireland, when “the exact same thing happens in Scotland”.
Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, claimed the “grubby, shameless deal” showed that “the Tories have shown that they will stop at nothing to hold on to power – even sacrificing the very basic principles of devolution.”
She added: “By ignoring the Barnett formula, Scotland will be missing out on an estimated £2.9bn in funding for our public services – that is the price to Scottish taxpayers for the Tories to stay in power.
“This breaks the very principles that underpin devolution and the funding settlement the Tories pledged to protect.”
‘Shameless deal’
Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale warned that the prime minister risked “weakening the bonds that unite the UK” if she did not provide extra money to tackle austerity in Scotland, Wales and the regions of England.
Carwyn Jones, the Labour first minister of Wales, said the agreement “further weakens the UK” and “all but kills the idea of fair funding for the nations and regions.”
And Scottish Greens co-convener Patrick Harvie called on Mr Mundell to resign as secretary of state for Scotland over the government’s “shameless deal with the homophobes and climate deniers of the DUP”.
Ian McCubbin.
“Mundell will only get the same for Scotland if he also gets NS to give up on A 2nd Independnece referendum.”
It’s not Nicola’s referendum to give up on, the Scottish Government voted for it, it would need to be voted on again I think to reverse the decision, but for that – “now is not the time”
Ha. This really is an unsurprising twist.
May loves going on about there being no magic money tree but now there is one apparently. There’s never one though when it comes to the NHS, disabled, housing etc.
As usual, Scotland is being brushed aside and stamped all over in this wonder union of equal partnership. I wonder how many Tory voters are now spitting, fizzing and foaming at the mouth with anger at their own stupidity. I mean, surely they shouldn’t be… the Scottish Tory representation in Westminster will stand up for Scotland, yes? Ha-ha. Sure they will.
May’s desperation has definitely reached new levels. Being bribed by nutjobs who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs are a myth makes you wonder what else she is capable of doing to try and keep power. I use the word power lightly, as we all know it’s the DUP running the show.
Funny, because I’m sure the Tories were warning people to be worried that the Scots would be running the show if they helped out Labour in Westminster. Quite laughable how it turned out.
Of course, I assume May didn’t find the £1.5 billion down the side of her couch… the taxpayers, the poor, disabled and elderly will pay for this bribe.
10 DUP MP’s carry more weight than any number of SNP ones.
SNP must be gutted they had 56 MP’s in the last parliament with no clout, 35 in this one, with no clout and how ever many MSP’s, with no clout.
10 super DUPers, in effect, rule the UK.
Aye bob,and that’s what the brits call democracy. What a disgraceful f*****g shambles of a country.
@Bob – actually the DUP can’t access the money until the Stormont executive is back up and running, which can’t happen unless they reach agreement with Sinn Féin. Gerry Adams reaction to this bribe is like Shania Twain – it don’t impress him much.
So really the UK is now, in effect, ruled by Sinn Féin and the DUP in the unholiest of alliances.
Here’s the rest of Colonel Gadaftie’s ( Honorary) speech courtesy of STV:
She added: “It’s absurd for the SNP to criticise UK Government spending on top of Barnett in Northern Ireland, when the exact same thing happens in Scotland.
“And it is incredibly hypocritical for the SNP to complain when, under their reckless plans for independence, they would end the UK’s funding deal immediately – leaving Scotland with a £15bn black hole in our public finances.”
She never misses a chance does she… You can depend on tRuthless to keep banging on about Independence!!!
“10 DUP MP’s carry more weight than any number of SNP ones.”
Just like when 13 blue Tory MPs somehow defeats 35 SNP MPs. The twist and make the rules to suit themselves.
Maths doesn’t lie though.
Chunky Marks thoughts on the DUP Tory coalition. Ends abruptly but you get the gist.
link to youtube.com
link to caltonjock.com
Sorry for going O/T again chasps and chaspesses but not sure if anyone is aware of the reason behind a proposed “extended” summer holiday for our MP’s.
link to independent.co.uk
I tried to archive this but the archive thingy didn’t work right.
I see the money tree is up and running again.
I would be very surprised if May asks Mundell whether he agrees or not on anything so he was making promises that were not in his power to give.
What we have is a dysfunctional administration determined to stay in power and perfectly happy to ride roughshod over Barnett and those in their own party that are not relevant.
If the total absurdity of this ‘cash for votes’ does not make all Scots sit up and take notice of how the Tories are screwing them – then nothing will.
Of course Col GaDaftie will always blame indyref for everything (who ever said she was a one-trick-pony?), and her loyal Tory 13 will duly march through the Lobbies to crush their ‘own’ Scotland – well done idiot voters at the GE.
Could this happen anywhere else and a Nation just stands by and lets it happen. I’m blazing mad, why is everyone else in the land, not?
Arleen needs that £1.5 billion to replace all the loyalist pallets that went missing…
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Rev Stu
Is there any way that WGD’s False Flag article of 25/5 and its comments could be copied over and published on Wings as it is brilliant and that praise includes the comments.
I know WGD has many readers but surely this article needs to be read by the Wings audience who may not have read it.
I’m sure WGD wouldn’t object to it being made available to a wider audience.
I look forward to reading both your own and WGD’s observations on May’s disgraceful DUP Pork Barrelling deal.
If this sort of thing does not open the eyes of the majority of those that moved to the Tories in the GE then I expect nothing will. Good news in a way, hopefully we don’t make too much of a song and dance just now, just another bit of ammunition (I’m in Davidson mode) for the future.
Beware though they expect the SG to continue with the referendum statement and may keep a funding release for Scotland to try and spike the story, it’s a game of propaganda remember.
Re today’s DUP deal it will be interesting to see the reactions of Ferocious Fluffy and Colonel Blimpruth.
Surely this will be a perfect chance for the newly elected Scottish Tory MPs and their leaders to demonstrate how much (if any) they believe in acting in Scotland’s interests.
Given that the DUP deal doesn’t give a penny to Scotland and that there are now more (sadly) Scottish Tory MPs than there are DUP MPs it would be in the power of said Scottish Tory MPs to defend Scotland by threatening to vote against The Queen’s Speech unless Scotland benefited pro rata to NI which would bring down May’s government and consign it to the bin.
Needless to say there isn’t a hope in hell of them doing that which will have the benefit of proving something very important to those who were naive to vote for them on 8/6.
Why oh why is this clown never held to account?
Re our wonderful strong and stable PM – in the run-up to the EU Ref.we were led to believe that May was Remainer.
However, she was being very careful not to campaign actively for Remain but was playing safe as everybody expected Remain to win.
Once Leave won the Ref.and Cameron fled the scene in shame and disgrace she was anointed as PM.
Every word she has uttered since proves that she is either a total hypocrite or was always a Leave supporter.
The revelation a few days ago that she was the only member of the Cabinet who opposed fair treatment of EU citizens resident in the UK is sufficient proof that she is as bad re The EU as the swivel headed lunatics Redwood, Cash, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith, Tebbit & Co.
@gus1940 4:06pm
“Needless to say there isn’t a hope in hell of them doing that which will have the benefit of proving something very important to those who were naive to vote for them on 8/6.”
Agreed.
Yet, for those imbeciles who did vote for them in the GE, it is a well deserved slap in the face.
@Katherine Hamilton
You are going to have to narrow it down a bit, we are awash with clowns at Westminster. Can anyone honestly think of one person from Lab/Lib/Tory that looks marginally competent as a leader.
Success to them is spending 20 minutes talking but actually saying nothing, ably demonstrated by David Davis on Peston on Sunday.
Donalda MacKinnon the Director of the BBC in Scotland I guess will be placing David Mundell’s contradictions at the top of Reporting Scotland tonight—–it’s Scotland’s Funding our Secretary of State is talking about.
Scotland deserves to know—–that’s how democracy works IN A DEMOCRACY.
Got the message BBC?
Good. 🙂
Fluffy the orange britnat is a liar. What else did we expect. I’m sure he’ll be very happy in doing down Scotland once again. Tractor.
David Mundell now says. “Now is not the time”. Seem electing 13 Tory MP’s is just unlucky – for us.
Britnat Westminster buys more votes.
Should it not be Col Gadfattie?
As if by magic…
link to imgur.com
@stewart fae stoney says: 26 June, 2017 at 1:58 pm:
“Rooth the mooth and fuddydale stand up and speak for Scotland, I think not.”
Weel they baith micht aften staun up – an’ Ah ken they baith aften speak tae.
It’s yon bit aboot daein it fir Scotland whit a hae muckle doots aboot whit they dinna dae.
This better not be true…
link to twitter.com
There are so many things in life that are true!
The best saying of all, “If you are going to lie you better have a good memory”. Seems the Tories have changed this to,”Tell the lies and worry about it later.
Don’t let them away with it! More faces than the Town clock..
Proud Cybernat.
It’s a story in the daily record. I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether it’s true or not.
G says on 26 June, 2017 at 1:36 pm
Colonel Gadaftie?
Aye! That’ll do for me! 😀
__________
Proud Cybernat on 26 June, 2017 at 4:41 pm
C’mon! Really? A some arsehole says story….
__________
To any newbies lurking – try and avoiding clicking on the direct links in the comments at 3:40 pm and 3:54 pm. By clicking on those links you will be helping to fund Unionist campaigns against us.
“News” sites are increasingly preventing the use of their material in the Archive.is facility for that very reason.
And if you ever wonder why we struggle to get our independence you only have to look at the so-called independence supporters who repeatedly help the BUM causes by posting direct links on WOS. Yet those same people can’t get posting direct links to WOS on those same BUM sites.
Just be aware folks!
I see the unionists media are trying to pass it off as not a bribe but rather a deserved addition to the £2 billion given previously to sweeten the Good Friday Agreement.
Using taxpayers money to prop up a useless PM and her useless government is still a bribe in my book.
I suppose the bigots, creationists and homophobes in NI will now be celebrating even more in their July parades which I see are also going to be televised live by the BBC’s propaganda unit in NI for the first time just to rub the Catholic community noses in it even more – see link to heraldscotland.com
If there’s no money tree the that implies in order for Northern Ireland to benefit by a billion the rest of the UK must lose that amount from its budgets.
So, with the DUP on board T May has a majority of 13.
How many tory MP’s did Scotland send to WM – 13.
She better not piss-off Colonel Gadaftie or those Ruth Davidson candidate’s might just be loyal to the wrong Conservative and Unionist Leader…!
Apparently it’s called a UK Prosperity Fund – just hearing on the radio…
Heseltine is wondering what tRuthless will say to all those Scottish Tories which she convinced to vote for her.
House of cards built on sand…
Look, they are shafting us merrily over a barrel and we are taking it like we somehow should enjoy it because it’s what we deserve.
Scots now disgust me with their crawling. They voted Unionist and Tory in their hundreds of thousands at that election and threw out some of the best MPs we have ever had. How am I supposed to feel proud of Scotland?
The tories would probably do themselves some good if they followed through and gave Scotland the £4 billion or whatever the figure is. They won’t though, because they are too short sighted and stupid, also the idea of giving the SNP govt. any cash would drive them crazy.
The situation in Britain now is unsustainable. Not just politically, but socially. The society the tories have created is so obviously unjust that this situation surely cannot last much longer. The sight of this tory government trying to cling on to power is obscene, totally sickening. All in all, I feel as though I’m sitting beside a powder keg waiting for the fuse to burn out.
Blatent cash for votes, must be illegal. The money will just be flutered away!
I see BBC Scotland do have an article and it is open for comment. Regular Tories are in frantic deflector shield mode. Hell of a lot about evil bad SNP not much about the actual story.
They don’t like it up them Captain Mainwaring, they don’t like it up them 🙂
I think we might be in for a year or two of the Tories being the Aunt Sally….schadenfreude? me?
How much longer are we going to put up with this nonsense ?call ref 2 now don’t keep using excuses you have the power forgod sake use it while you have it in future don’t look back and regret not using the power you had .,Westminster is treating Scotland with contempt treat them the same way
Colonial Davidson will be dancing to a new tune colonel bogie, I Snot on you & thats for bye her & Mundell shitting on all Scots .
i think nicola should announce that indyref2 is parked until we know the details of brexit.
which was what was planned anyway.
let the yoons have their day in the sun.
treeza is now safe for 18months to go ahead full tilt at brexit negs.
it is time to focus on the fall out of these brexit negs, change the narrative, ruth and mundell cannot be allowed to answer every question about brexit with a rant about indyref2.
it is a distraction to our electorate. brexit is the unionists nemesis, not ours. let them defend it.
it would give us time to complete our indyref2 white paper, let nicola carry on, as she is presently doing, governing scotland well.
we should be focusing on how treeza is selling out eu nationals in scotland, the drop in eu nurse and student applications etc.
this is how we win indyref2.
I would also like to remind you, regardless of what nicola says this week, indyref2 is very likely to be in autumn 18 or spring 19.
which is when we always planned for it to be. so no change, just a change in tactics
I have just been listening to the debate in Westminster about the DUP deal.
The government are avoiding Barnett consequentials by making it a ‘City Deal’ and saying that Scotland has already benefitted from 4 city deals alongside things like the V&A in Dundee.
The new Scottish Tories were fully behind their masters in supporting the arrangement and decrying everything SNP. I also noticed Ian Murray complained that there weren’t Barnett consequentials but his solution is to offer nothing other than a Labour government.
The Tory manifesto at the Westminster election was to stop the second referendum, nothing else. Therefore the Tories are not breaking any manifesto promises by not standing up for Scotland’s interests.
I do hope that if any person who voted Tory are affected by this and the many others that will occur in the lifetime of this parliament when the Tory MP’s do not stand up for Scotland’s interest, don’t complain that they were somehow duped into voting Tory because the Scottish Tories are well known for this.
gus1940 says:
26 June, 2017 at 3:55 pm
Rev Stu
‘Is there any way that WGD’s False Flag article of 25/5 and its comments could be copied over and published on Wings as it is brilliant and that praise includes the comments.’
Did you mean 25 June?
Ian
Since the Tories won in Scotland according to the Daily Heil and co no need to worry .
Extra monies will come our way. Isn’t that right Colonel Daftie?
schrodingers cat says:
26 June, 2017 at 5:55 pm
i think nicola should announce that indyref2 is parked until we know the details of brexit
Announce indyref2, specifically just after Brexit deal formally ends.
You’re for the nation state EU member Scotland or you’re not. All this faffing around is not the way forward. Why is yoon culture hysterically trying to block ref2?
A good 18 month YES campaign and that will be Scotland, heading back to its natural status, the nation state.
Lets see how hard BBC Scotland led Project Fear 2.0 really sits with us again, out in the open, a straight fight, to the death of this farce union once and for all.
Ian F @ 5.59
Yes.
Blair Paterson at 545pm,
I agree with every word. We need the date set by the FM, and the campaign started. We do not need to wait until Scotland has been dragged out of the EU, by Autumn 2018, we will know just exactly how awful brexit will be for Scotland, a country which resolutely voted against leaving the EU. Their is no reason to wait, especially in light of how Scotland has just been shafted yet again.
SNP need to stop wasting time on this. I fully anticipate the Tories know in advance they will settle the EU brexit deal very early (every thing they say, is a smokescreen – remember Theresa is a serial liar), and will hope to leave the EU, before an indyref campaign even gets going.
The line about Scotland having got funding for cities and the V&A (and therefore not deserving a Barnett top up) doesn’t wash for a moment. If true it would mean that May’s government had been systematically denying funds from Northern Ireland. The reality, of course, is that the DUP frittered away taxpayers money on a corrupt alternative energy scheme. Lovely bedfellows for Davidson, Mundell et al.
Unionists will yet again be creaming their pants at Scotland being put in its place once more.
What a precious, precious Union this is.
It looks like we are being outed by the Sunday Herald editor as a creepy cybernat cult, that’s what you get Rev when you criticise an article in the SH.
Oh well, changed from the Observer to the SH over 3 years ago but I have noticed since the change of editor a drop in the quality plus the independence support looks somewhat muted lately.
As I’m a creepy cultist the editor would not want me as a reader, I happily oblige.
Robert Louis at 6.22. I agree the Yes campaign needs to start now. We may not have as long as we think. The Tories are very good at saying one thing then doing a completely different thing. We all know just how awful brexit is going to be now, waiting will not make it any better
The DUP are a right underhanded bunch. I fully expect that part of their ‘agreement’, which will never see light of day will be this;
The DUP would actually prefer for N.Ireland to now be run by London, instead of Stormont – and will be happy if that happens. They can then leverage on every single vote in the house of commons – and effectively have FULL control of N.Ireland decisions behind the scenes. The people of N.Ireland should be furious at this shoddy deal. This would explain why it took so long to negotiate.
You need to remember, the reason Stormont broke down in the first place, was because Sinn Fein refused to work with Arlene Foster, due to her involvement in a crooked energy scheme, which is still under investigation.
It is now in the interests of the DUP to have London run N.Ireland, since now their votes are always needed at Westminster, it is the DUP which will effectively have control over N.Ireland, with zero input from anybody else.
Sadly, I full expect real trouble, as a result of this. Sinn Fein will see it for EXACTLY what it is.
Well while nobody wants trouble Robert ,but if anything kicks off in northern Ireland because of this underhanded deal done by gangsters. Then the UN should be sent in to police it . we’ve seen what Westminsters finest done in Derry on bloody Sunday
Anyone think Shortbreads finest?! Gary Rubberheid and K,WI,AN,E to call out the Fluffmeister and demand his resignation over this, NO CHANCE.
Oh aye its better being a cult than a C*NT.
gus1940 says:
26 June, 2017 at 6:09 pm
Thanks
Let’s not be bought of by this ploy if we demand payments outside of Barrnet then will subsequently weeken it in a few year they’ll that barnet should be reviewed as not the only funding stream etc
It’s enough to make one a wee bit angry. Or it bloody well should be.
If I was a Sinn Fein supporter I would expect them to refuse to enter into a power sharing agreement whilst the other half of the agreement is effectively now an arm of the UK government. The UK government can’t have it both ways, claiming to be an even handed broker whilst relying on the support of one half of the agreement.
Remember there are some Tories who would rather return to the 70’s in NI than have an agreement with SF. Once NI & Scotland are gone their empire would be restricted to Wales.
Marian on 26 June, 2017 at 5:10 pm
Aye, and then you go and help them to promote their hatred by posting a direct link to one of their BUM rags. BTW, it’s also yesterdays “news”.
How much advertising revenue have you helped them to bring in? How many possible converts to that rag have you created? How many direct links to WOS have you managed to post on that BUM rags site? Just curious, Marian!
More money for NI DUP. funded for their bigotry and fascism. A Law unto themselves. They do not obey UK or International Law. Getting away with murder. Most of them should be in jail. Funded more than anywhere. They raises less than £28Billion in taxes. Get 50% more funding. £14Billion. To £42Billion. According to the UK Treasury accounts. Funded to Norwegian levels.
They ruin their economy with their bigotry and sectarianism. They should be held to account and put in jail. They had a £12Billion pay out. To keep them quiet. They are a Law unto themselves. Foster gives hand outs to her cronies. Wasted £1/2Billion on an illegal fuel scheme. Over funded with UK taxpayers money. It is totally undemocratic.
The Union costs Scotland £20Billion a year. Average £4Billion on repayments of debt borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. £3Billion in tax evasion. Whisky companies make massive profits and pay no tax. £4Billion lost in Oil/Gas revenues because of unfair, illegal Tory taxes losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. 40% tax since Jan 2016. Minimum pricing would save £1Billion. £1Billion on Trident, Scotland can’t borrow or spend £6Billion to invest in growth. Raising more revenues. = £20Billion. Lost. Now Brexit. A total scandal.
Scotland lost a £300Billion Oil fund because of Westminster mismanagement.
To Marian on 26 June, 2017 at 5:10 pm
Aye, and then you go and help them to promote their hatred by posting a direct link to one of their BUM rags. BTW, it’s also yesterdays “news”.
How much advertising revenue have you helped them to bring in? How many possible converts to that rag have you created? How many direct links to WOS have you managed to post on that BUM rags site? Just curious, Marian!
Mundell missing in inaction…….unavailable until suitable spiel spinned tae f*ck for public consumption.
Douglas Ross on Rep Scot tonight , that is , oor ain Douglas , one of the mighty new Scottish Tory warriors for Scotland and beholden to Corporal Ruth und Corporal Ruth alone ……well I tell yae he was standing up for………….standing up for ………….the Tory party…….aye….help me boab whit aboot Scotland ya radge….yir leader telt yae……… ya only had one job…..well two if ya include yir refereeing job….one job …stand up fir Scotland….end of …fecks sake….red card ya tube.
One just cannot get the right type of Scottish Conservative MP elected nowadays to listen to one’s Scottish commander in chief………what the chuff can one do.
David Mills says:
26 June, 2017 at 6:48 pm
Let’s not be bought of by this ploy if we demand payments outside of Barrnet then will subsequently weeken it in a few year they’ll that barnet should be reviewed as not the only funding stream etc”
Weaken it for a few years? Lets end all of it in 18 months.
Scotland’s at a clear democratic juncture right now.
Do we stay ruled by another country outside of the EU, having just been stripped of our EU citizenship, or do we vote to decide which is best for Scotland?
If Scotland stays with Brexit England, we are only going to get worse and worse off. Ofcourse Scots resources will be looted at ever increasing rates and we will almost certainly see SNP Scots gov driven out of office by relentless BBC Scotland led attack propaganda alone. And then we’ll have SNP Scots gov replaced by either red or blue tories, both equally toxic for Scots.
If we do hang back until after Brexit for ref2, just to see how it all pans out, we’re looking at a decade of fanny around, waiting for British Empire 2.0 to get going. And we all know it wont. Everyone knows it wont.
Even if May, or Corbyn do get some kind of soft Brexit deal, Scots will still have lost our EU passports, despite voting twice now, to keep it.
And again, even if May or Corbyn do get any kind of not hard Brexit deal, we know it will be rammed down our throats by BBC Scotland, that their deal is the greatest of great British triumphs.
But whatever tricks the shysters do pull off, Scots will no longer be EU citizens.
Scottish nation state EU membership could transform Scotland in much the same way many other EU member countries have been, not like Greece though:-(
What’s yoon culture going to do Project Fear wise anyway?
vote NO or you’re out of Europe for good?
Beeb gimps wheel out fabulous liars like Gordo Brown again, with his vote NO for devo-max and a federal UK, you’ll have no money in your poor wee Scottish purses, when that’s clearly the future of Scotland reigned over by the tory freak show in London, currently buying DUP votes with taxpayers money?
Think of the economic benefits of Scotland becoming an EU member in country rich in green energy alone.
England voted Leave. 18 months time indyref2, or never, Scotland. Its all on our side now, all of it.
Pork barrel politics from the Tory swines.
Buying support on a Grand (Orange Lodge of Ireland) scale.
What’s the difference between this and bribery?
Shouldn’t NS park Indyref2 where it belongs? That is, on the doorstep of No. 10 Downing Street?
Which is where it is at the moment, in fact.
And they (the actual and would-be occupants of said address, and their so-called supporters) don’t like it one little bit.
That’s why they are screaming all the time for the SNP to take that horrible thing away. The mere prospect of Indyref2 gives them the heebie-geebies; it haunts them night and day.
Otherwise, they would not scream so much about it. With increasing vehemence, as their hysteria keeps on mounting.
All NS has to do is leave it there, where it belongs, and where it is so neatly parked. Let it keep haunting them.
They can’t remove it, and she doesn’t have to. There are no ‘blue meanies’ with the power to take it away. They can pretend to book her for it all they like – they are quite unable to make a case against her. The referendum has been legally parked, and they know it.
Parked, moreover, right up their noses, and they don’t like it. Indyref2 is doing its job just where it is, making them all feel terribly, terribly uncomfortable.
Don’t panic, Nicola. Stay calm. Let them shout all they like: they’re the ones having the breakdown, not us.
Just leave it there … where it belongs, for now. They would all love to ignore Scotland, and her interests, but they can’t – while that damned thing is there.
Not the damned thing itself, in fact – just the mere prospect of it. What sends them hysterical is simply the fact that Nicola can call it when and as she wants. It is like an unguided missile that they can’t control. They aren’t guiding it, so it could hit them any time.
Good!
We’re winning … Don’t despair … The opportune moment is just around the corner … We may have to wait a little, but it’s definitely coming, and we should all be ready for it.
Meanwhile, let ‘them’ implode in whatever directions they want. The time bomb on their doorstep, which they all dread, is still ticking away … Keep it parked there, ready to be activated at just the moment when it will be most effective … Patience!
Keep it parked there, ready to be activated at just the moment when it will be most effective … Patience!”
Til when then Wull? You can’t run a region or country like this for ever. Something will give and it will be SNP Scots gov, unless we get an exact ref2 date.
BREAKING: Ireland will block any UK/EU Brexit deal if May-DUP deal goes ahead.
link to skwawkbox.org
Oh dear…
What Wull says at 7-33pm.
I worry for the SNP if Nicola makes a wrong choice (not that I think she will!).
sassenach says:
26 June, 2017 at 7:40 pm
What Wull says at 7-33pm.
Ok, when should ref2 be held?
Proud Cybernat @7-39
As the BBc seem to be NOT reporting this, I think we may assume it could be a big bump in the road (ever hopeful!).
heedtracker
At the optimum moment , as decided by the Scottish government, as it was they who obtained the mandate, originally.
Seems eminently sensibe to me, anyway!!
sassenach says:
26 June, 2017 at 7:49 pm
heedtracker
OK! cop out but hey ho.
This really is no problem at all. Mundell might be a UK Government man bought and paid for, soul and all, but the 12 other Conservative MPs will naturally put Scotland first, and vote against the UK Government on this deal.
innit.
There is no chance of Indyref2 being abandoned by the SNP, they must know it is suicide. The most likely thing to happen is a clarification or more conciliatory wording that gives the idea that the onus is on the UK government to produce a deal which the other Nations need to be involved with. Obviously the UK government will reject this as they have rejected everything which dilutes their control.
It must be clear to the voters that it is effectively the UK government that is forcing the independence issue by intransigence and ignoring the other Nations. The aim is to get no voters last time to vote yes, they also have to feel this is the best option left for Scotland.
It’s obvious some yes voters are getting impatient, but they will be even more frustrated if the next vote is lost. As for the timing, it is always risky, ask Theresa May who thought she had a 20 point lead.
We should also aim for a big win (60% would be excellent) because as you have seen with Brexit, narrow margins lead to challenges.
What is it with Tories, huh? They seem to break political agreements, conventions, and even laws as they see fit, to protect their “precious union”.
Electoral fraud? Done. The Sewell convention? Not a binding agreement. Extra money for Northern Ireland? Not part of the Barnett formula, and no parliamentary vote.
Back in your place, Scotland and Wales. We’ll give you more money if we think it’s in our interests to do so. In the meantime, fuck off. And Mundell, and Davidson, nowhere to be seen.
I suppose the £1.5bn big bung will help Foster recoup the potential £490 million loss brought about by her green energy scheme fiasco. Nice to know that Scottish tax-payers will be contributing around 9% to that.
…………………………
@ Stoker at 7:01pm …. “Marion how many converts to that rag have you created?”
A bit harsh don’t you think Stoker? Hundreds of Independence supporters, like myself, access these sites every day to make comments / post facts. With posts like yours one wonders how many converts to the Independence cause / people thinking of posting on here you’re actually chasing away.
…………………………
And on the subject of the Herald I see that their online survey, of around 12,000 people, showed that 81% of people who responded want another Referendum. That seems to quash the view of the Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie, Mundell et al crew.
Does anyone still want to pretend that Scots are “sovereign”?
jfngw, that’s not advice though.
SNP have until May 2021, Scots GE. They could survive the next Scots GE but its going to be very close. They probably will lose even more Westminster MP’s, if there is another snap UK GE, which is more and more likely.
Its pointless talking about frustration in YES voters. Its a deadline now.
If you look at English press in Scotland now, Corbyn is the new hero of Scotland they tell us.
Front page of give away Metro today?
Huge Glastonbury headline photo of Glasto stars and Corbyn, with banner headline, “Jeremy Corbyn will be Prime Minister in 6 months and he will scrap Trident.”
Metro;s as ferocious a yoon tory rag as the rest of them. Why are these gimps giving away front page party political blasts, on behalf of the Labour party, in Scotland?
Rock says:
26 June, 2017 at 8:25 pm
Does anyone still want to pretend that Scots are “sovereign”?
When do you think ref2 should be held Rock, because youre so wise n shit?
@heedtracker
I’m not offering advice, I’m giving my opinion. I’m not deluded enough to believe anything I write here has any sway with anyone. You may disagree with me and that’s your prerogative to do so.
Rock @8.25
3…2…1 lol
There have been a couple of citations today of Ms May’s mention of “this precious union”, particularly with reference to the DUP deal.
Maybe one or more of her advisors should point out to her that her “precious union” is the union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England – Northern Ireland is only a province of the English kingdom. NI is not a party to her “precious union”. It is subservient to her whim, as boss of the “precious union” of the two kingdoms.
Cue constitutional crisis. Film at eleven…
Ensuring that Scotland gets its fair share of public spending would be an astute political move by any unionist party. Especially the so called Scottish Conservatives.
Barnet is a rule of thumb that ensures devolved bodies have the funding needed to provide the same quality of public services as elsewhere in the UK assuming the followed the same budget as Westminster.
If that funding is cut them there comes a point where there’s no benefit to Scotland being in the union. Especially when we have little to no input on how funds outwith devolved areas are spent.
Davidson’s bluster is an attempt at avoiding her duty to speak up for Scotland and deny the SNP the opportunity to point at the DUP deal as being bad for Scotland, Wales and England too.
It’ll not be long until we’re informed again of the minute detail of the act of union and how it’s unlawful to do this and that … bla bla bla ! The only thing that matters is a majority of the population voting in a referendum for independence. Until then, our masters can and will do whatever they like.
heedtracker @7-55
What on earth is the point of ME specifying a date for indyref??
I might not have the political “pull” that you obviously do……..!
@Proud Cybernat 7.39
Any minute now …. BOORACH!
The EU no doubt will take a keen interest in the CON/DUP love in and may even question why the EU is stumping up vast amounts of money to shore up the Peace Process in NI when the CON/DUP alliance seems determined to undermine it.
‘What is the PEACE Programme? The EU Programme for Peace and Reconciliation is a unique Structural Funds programme aimed at reinforcing progress towards a peaceful and stable society in Northern Ireland and the Border Region of Ireland. It represents the European Union’s commitment to supporting the peace process across the region and was initially launched in 1995.
The PEACE Programme will provide support to projects that contribute towards the promotion of greater levels of peace and reconciliation. The Programme will also place a strong emphasis on promoting cross-community relations and understanding in order to create a more cohesive society.
Projects must be able to tangibly demonstrate how they will contribute towards the results and outputs of the Programme to create a shared understanding of the past and a fundamental change in attitudes and behaviour. The content of the new Programme has been agreed by the Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government. It is currently undergoing review and negotiation by the European Commission (EC). Once this process has concluded the Programme will be adopted by the EU. The SEUPB will then co-ordinate the launch of the Programme in 2015’
Who knew-the EU funds so much more in NI
e.g.infrastructure projects ‘ERDF Investment for Growth & Jobs Programme for NI (308 million Euro)
Rural development- N Ireland Rural Development Programme aims to sustain and grow rural development.
Common Agricultural Policy (2,299m Euro): Direct payment (Pillar 1) (EAGGF) the Dept of Agriculture and Rural Development
Common Agricultural Policy (228m Euro) Rural Development Programme (Pillar II) (EAGGF) Dept of Agriculture and Rural Development
Investing in young people;
Erasmus+ (14.7billion Euro with 112.6m Euro to the Uk in 2015) aims to modernise education, training and youth work across Europe’
link to eurolink-eu.net
And should Scotland- the country- accept Brexit when a) Scotland voted to remain and b) the ongoing unequal relationship with WM will continue to damage and impoverish Scotland
link to funding-portal.eu
And what about Wales- never mentioned in dispatches;
‘During 2014-2020, the ESF and European Regional Development Fund are investing around €11.8 billion across the UK. The ESF share of €4.9 billion is funding six operational programmes in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Gibraltar, and includes €206 million for the Youth Employment Initiative (YEI)’
link to ec.europa.eu
Young people should now be asking their MPs across the disunited kingdom who is going to shake down the magic money tree and replace the investment that the EU has made in their future. If UKOK can’t guarantee like for like funding then that’s called a crisis in democracy, an abject administration failure and no government can survive that.
heedtracker @ 19:18,
Well said there, heedy. You spoke every word for me too.
Some might right off the Tories as fools and idiots but they are no such thing.
They will sabotage a second independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.
They will use every means possible to do that, including black arts operations.
They could have another snap general election, where the unionists will be emboldened to stand single candidates and there will be hardly any SNP MPs left.
Or they will suddenly walk out of the Brexit negotiations without a deal, as Big Jock predicted a few days ago.
The more Nicola dithers, the worse it becomes.
She spectacularly missed a golden opportunity to strike when the iron was hot.
Admit it or not, things are not looking bright for independence.
Unless something unexpected in our favour happens very soon.
Does anyone have a link to the herald poll showing a majority for a new Scottish referendum? Google search strangely didn’t come up with anything recent
Owen Smith, remember him well he’s now shadow Sec of State for Norn Ireland and according to Owen Labour are OK with the DUP deal really and anyhow the deal struck must be different and serve Norn Irelands unique problems so Brexit must be tailored to suit them too
And Owens reasoning behind this is that what we don’t want is for Norn Ireland to go back to the troubles of the past
Now no matter what way you try to look at that you come up with same answer, in that if you threaten to blow the English up negotiations are very much more smooth and frictionless to use Mrs Mays terminology
So even without verbalising any threat and even if they’re completely wrong in every word they say the Norn Irish can get pretty much anything they want anytime they want without lifting a finger to put a cross in a ballot box to elect MPs to either go or not go to Westminster or so much as having to negotiate or even have a wee tiff over a cup of tea
Scotland is told to shut up on a constant basis by Twerpy little nobodies like Mundell and Colonel Blimp Maam and well basically anybody in the Union right down to the foul mouthed Yoon Trolls and their wee Orange Order Sashmen like the Daily Records David Clegg, the BBC, and I wont go naming them all we all know who they are
Scotland as a Nation hasn’t threatened anyone in any civil unrest but we have had to sacrifice countless thousands of young men for and on behalf of this stinking foul Union with less than gratitude for that sacrifice so perhaps I could suggest to all young folk thinking of employing their services for this “Union” with England in their British Armed services that they think very hard about doing that and consider instead joining Scotlands Armed Services which will be recruiting in the to too distant few years, and it’s not likely you’ll be asked to kill folk who aren’t trying to kill us
I haven’t killed anybody today….but….
The day aint over yet
The last bit was humour, it was, it really was, honest!
£1bn you say. That’ll be the first payment cos the thing about blackmail is…
OT – history
I presume most if not all know about
link to electricscotland.com
but perhaps some don’t know about
link to siliconglen.scot
which also has a section of history, masses of stuff, the owner / author has been on the ‘net long time, websites from day 1 basically, and is an Indy supporter. Has posted in some places (I don’t reveal names without permission).
His website comes with a health warning: you may get lost in there for days at a time!
Call me dumbfounded but is this deal between the DUP and Tories even legal?
It smells like shit, how can any government offer a political party cash to ensure their support? It’s not their cash in the first place it’s our cash, our taxes.
This stinks to high heaven and cannot end well. Sein Fein will be having none of this and that can only mean that there will be no reinstatement of the Northern Irish assembly and direct rule from London will happen.
How can London rule NI when the DUP are the only thing holding the UK government up? This is pure madness and doomed to failure.
The Tories are proven to be fools and idiots despite what some say.
heedtracker,
“When do you think ref2 should be held Rock, because youre so wise n shit?”
Unlike pompous clueless armchair pundits like yourself, I can say things with foresight rather than hindsight:
Rock (26th June 2016 – Notes from the madhouse)
“With the UK leaving the EU, there is absolutely no credible way for Scotland to remain part of the UK as well as the EU as if nothing had changed.
Everything depends on Scotland being fully independent.
The EU will want Scotland more than Scotland wants the EU.
Scotland is in a very strong position right now.
Nicola should get a written statement from the EU that if Scotland votes for independence, Scotland can be a full member from day 1, with the same arrangements as present regarding currency, Schengen etc, IF Scotland wants to be a member from day 1.
The independence referendum questions should then be:
Should Scotland become independent?
If Yes,
Should Scotland continue as a member of the EU, or
Should Scotland leave the EU?
If the vote is for independence outside the EU, we can leave the UK on the same day as the UK (including Scotland) leaves the EU.
We should not wait for the outcome of the Tory civil war down south.
The independence referendum should be held before Cameron’s successor takes over.
All the issues have been already extensively debated during the last campaign and the Wee Black Book exposing Project Fear’s lies is very conveniently fresh off the Press to be delivered to every household in Scotland.
Strike while the iron is hot.”
Instead of preparing for independence, Nicola wasted months flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.
I believe we missed a golden opportunity we will probably not have in another 310 years.
Unless something unexpected in our favour happens very soon.
Once Brexit is completed we will forever be at the mercy of Westminster.
I think Scotland’s history is coming out more, bit by bit, so it should be, and it really should be promoted more by YES.
It’s not the history itself so much, as the way it’s been distorted over decades, hundreds of years, by the British establishment.
That should really piss some NO or undecided type people off as much as it did me and other YESsers.
Vote Tory and fund NI? Well, in all fairness, it is a change from Vote Tory and fund SE England.
Robert Louis @ 18:22,
Just to correct a possible misapprehension that has popped-up occasionally: the Art.50 exit process only terminates once 2 years have passed after application.
(Excepting, that is, a mutually-agreed extension that can be vetoed by any of the EU-27 – an example of real sovereignty in a genuine confederation, not a tawdry UK colonial simulacrum.)
The Mayhem Gang can walk out of the EU talks any time the incompetents like, but it won’t alter the UK exit point. Though it obviously would affect how it happens when it does happen.
I wonder how much the unseen backhanders totalled in their dirty dealings.
Hopefully another step towards Indy.
This must wake a few of the dinosaurs up.
Who in Scotland with brains can be happy with this?
( bar the no surrender mutants.)
I thought that was most odd, and telling, that Mrs May was out on the pavement in Downing St. to welcome the DUP contingent. Apparently so grateful, virtually on her knees as Chris’s last cartoon showed. Strange times indeed. Nicola might have offered to support WM in some limited situations, but would have been scorned by the oppositions for doing so. We might just wait and see – – .
O/t
Taken from Scone In Union – Problem page…
Dear Scone in Union,
I am a high profile Tory, openly gay, with a Catholic Partner to whom I am engaged. Now that the Conservative and Unionist Party have teamed up with the anti Gay, Sectarian bunch of bigoted knuckle draggers in the DUP, I’m slightly concerned, and its putting a strain on our relationship.
What can I do? Please help.
Yours sincerely
R Harrison
Dear Ruth,
We are so sorry to hear about your lack of fore-planning/current problems.
In these early days of Brexit Negotiations a lack of any kind of planning by Tories would seem to be an issue.
Having given a great deal of thought to the problems you face, here are some of your options.
Run away and join the Army – we like this one, its just like Beau Geste, but without the Frenchie title.
As you are no longer in a position to ‘stay’ in the closet, a more portable and cheaper option would be to buy a Balaclava. Thanks to the Great British Knit Off these now come in variety of colours – Red, White, Blue and of course a lovely shade of Orange.
Turn your partner into a Sex Slave. While not ideal, and not in any way legal, your colleagues in the Tory Party have always had a wonderful ability to tolerate any level of hypocrisy, so long as there’s a degree of cruelty and kinky sex about it.
Wishing you and your partner all the best, specially when the Great British Repeal Bill comes in. Keep Calm and Carry On. Tally ho.
Yours from Scone in the Union.
Rock, what on earth was all that?
Again, oh wise one, Simple Question Rock, when do you think ref2 should be held?
Just give me a ref2 date Rock. Even you can do that, without your waffle.
A £1.5 billion bribe gifted from one political party to another to ensure they remain in power. Is this possibly legit? NOOOOOOOOOO!
Thanks for the posts, heedtracker (7.36) and sassenach (7.40 pm). I fully understand the concern, and share it to a considerable degree. I too have my own fears that the SNP might still make the wrong call. But I remain confident that they won’t, and that NS will stand her ground.
Unlike her opponents, moreover, she won’t be shrill about it when she does. I expect her to put forward the SNP position in a properly reasonable – and well-reasoned – way. I might turn out to be wrong, but I can’t see her blowing it.
I think she will say what she has always said. Namely, that there will be an Indyref2 by or before March 2019 if the Brexit deal does not include her two basic demands. She wants UK membership of the internal market, and of the customs union.
I admit to having been puzzled by this. Why was NS offering such a compromise in the first place? I am pro-European, and have always been convinced of the SNP’s ‘independence in Europe’ policy. To be frank, this looked like a betrayal … Why didn’t NS face down the doubters – Alex Neil and co – support official policy, and go straight to the point: England and Wales can ‘leave’ if they want; Scotland is remaining; so … bye bye!
I was in fact hugely disappointed when NS took the way of compromise. It seemed to me she had single-handedly sold out on SNP policy – and on me! – without having any mandate to do so. And – much worse – that she had overridden the clearly stated will of the Scottish people, who had voted overwhelmingly to ‘remain’ in the European Union.
What we Scots had voted for was not to have access to a market or a customs union, but full membership of the EU. When Mrs May was saying ‘Brexit means Brexit’ I thought NS should have been responding with ‘Remain means Remain’, in reference to Scotland. Then the battle-lines would have been clear, as would the reason for Indyref2.
I am now beginning to see it differently, and trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I am starting to believe the main reason NS is fighting for a Brexit that retains English and Welsh membership of the customs union, as well as their access to European markets, is precisely in view of Scottish independence.
Maybe the emergence of a hard border between England and an independent Scotland, especially a Scotland that will be a member state of the EU, is the last thing she wants. And maybe it should be the last thing any of us wants. We have to acknowledge that it might end up that way – but, before it does, we should be doing everything we can to prevent it from ever happening. It is in the interests of everyone – including a future independent Scotland – to retain an open border with England. Just as the Irish Republic and the UK kept their border open after Irish independence.
NS accepts that England and Wales voted for Brexit, and that that will happen. But she wants it to be the kind of Brexit which will give Eng&Wales an open relationship with the member states of the EU. In that case, when Scotland becomes an independent country with EU membership, she too will continue to enjoy that open relationship with Eng&Wales.
In other words, NS is striving to ensure that an independent Scotland will be BOTH a member state of the EU AND have an open border with England. A border across which both people and goods will be able to move freely, as they currently do.
The only way to gain both objectives is for the UK to negotiate a ‘soft’ Brexit.
NS wants to use whatever influence she can muster to help achieve that end.
All this for Scotland’s good, aimed at making the transition to Scottish independence as smooth and workable as possible.
I expect NS is also convinced that the ‘soft Brexit’ she is promoting is in the best interests of England and Wales as well. Whereas a hard Brexit will damage them – and we should not want this, since it will not be good for us either.
Keeping Indyref2 on the table puts pressure on the UK government. It should encourage them to go for the ‘soft Brexit’ option. It warns them of potentially serious consequences if they end up with a ‘hard’ Brexit, or with no deal at all. In doing so, they will be putting the UK at risk.
Likewise if they attempt to sell Scotland’s interests down the drain in order to get a deal from the EU that suits England and Wales, but not us. So it gives her leverage, and allows her to do her utmost to defend Scotland’s interests in the immediate Brexit negotiations. These are going to happen anyway – she is powerless to stop them – so, in terms of Scotland, she wants them to end in a better rather than a worse outcome.
It is straightforward really: if Scotland’s immediate and long-term interests are protected in the Brexit negotiations, and if the outcome is useful for Scotland’s future – the sub-text being ‘even as an independent country’, though this might not be explicitly stated – then Indyref2 will not be called before 2021 (i.e. during the life-time of the current Scottish parliament). But if there is hard Brexit, or a no-deal Brexit, or if Scotland’s interests are betrayed, there most certainly will be an Indyref2. By or before March 2019.
I think some other conditions will also be attached. In particular, I would expect NS to insist that there will be no change to the devolution settlement, so that all repatriated powers which return to the UK from the EU and are not reserved to Westminster, will henceforth belong to the devolved administrations.
It should be explicitly stated that if that is not respected, then Indyref2 will happen. Again, by or before March 2019.
I would also expect her to give no guarantees concerning what happens after 2021. She will only be talking about what happens during the lifetime of the present Scottish parliament. Even Mundell is on record as saying there would well be an indyref2 during or after 2021.
To that, NS will say, indeed there could. Adding: and there could well be one long before that – in 2018 or 2019 – if the British government ignores what she is saying about access to the market, customs union membership etc. Many others are maing similar proposals.
I hope she will make efforts to have the Scottish Greens with her in all of this, since they were with her in getting Indyref2 on the table in the first place. I also hope she will make bridges with pro-European and ‘pro-soft’ voters in England and Wales, as well. There are plenty of them, especially among those who backed ‘Remain’ in 2016.
I think NS will also make it clear that Scottish independence remains the central policy and aim of the SNP, and also that the Party still favours full membership of the EU. I expect she will again affirm that these objectives must – and will – be obtained through the ballot box. Her statement should also include a rallying-cry to independence supporters who did not, or do not usually vote SNP.
And the eventual outcome?
Well, if she gets all the things I have laid out here, it will be like a miracle. And it won’t stop there: Indyref2 will be in the SNP manifesto for the Holyrood elections of 2021. The momentum will be back by then.
But I don’t think the UK government will in fact accede to NS’s demands. I expect Indyref2 WILL therefore take place within the lifetime of the present Scottish parliament, probably some time in 2019. And we’ll win.
You know if we want to be an Independent country why don’t we start acting like one ?
For a start ask David Mundell to appear before the finance Committee to explain
A) the benefit to Scotland from this deal
B) why is public taxes being used to pay for seats from a party no one in Scotland voted for to keep a party in power?
C) clarification on Barnett Formula now and in the future?
The electorate is being totally played and it would appear the Tories just go to ground and refuse to be either accountable or even answer to the public.
Time for Holyrood to stand up ( if it is our place of Governance and be counted) otherwise when The Great Repeal Bill comes along , it will be ignored.
PS, can we also have a rebate from the Scotland Office as there doesn’t seem to be a Sec of State representing most folk in Scotland I know
@Wull
The most obvious reason that full membership of the EU is no longer the primary objective if you listen to the narrative is more or less what you said with regard to trade with the rUK.
If we are a full member of the EU then we trade with rUK on the terms adopted by the EU even if that is WTO terms. That could be damaging to Scotland. However if not a full member but instead EEA/EFTA we could make our own trade agreement with rUK.
This is why Ireland is also so concerned about the UK out of the EU, their trade with the UK will be very badly damaged.
Tomorrow’s National front page:
The Rough Bounds says:
26 June, 2017 at 5:23 pm
Look, they are shafting us merrily over a barrel and we are taking it like we somehow should enjoy it because it’s what we deserve.
Scots now disgust me with their crawling. They voted Unionist and Tory in their hundreds of thousands at that election and threw out some of the best MPs we have ever had. How am I supposed to feel proud of Scotland?
Rough Bounds
Feel Proud because of you. It wouldn’t be hurting if it wasn’t worth it and you are worth it cause you care. And so do I.
And guess what – I don’t know how dark its going to get before we get there. The getting there might not even by my generation. But I’m not going anywhere and I’m not giving up – Aye YES for aw that.
So, if you can pick yourself up, and if not have a wee rest, then pick yourself up, dust yourself down and start all over again.
Every car is a billboard, and Indyposter boy has the posters that get the info about our economy out. Lets start there. Lets flood the streets, the lampposts, etc, with the info. Lets make so that when Indyref2 is called, that is one debate that is off the table, done, dusted, laughable. Too Poor – get real.
Brexit – Repeat this over and over as loud as you can. T May went to India to broker a trade deal – the cost of which was Free Movement of People. Immigration will Increase with Brexit – not decrease. They want lots of low paid workers and shit laws to protect them.
The Yes Movement occupies the positive and Project Fear this time round, while the SNP do the ‘boring’ party bit.
And always – we never lose our tempter, we are never rude, especially when provoked. One bit of Decency at a time, over and over. That they can never take. That belongs to us.
Lots of heads have dropped, time to straighten up and get thrawn. It was never going to be easy.
Aye we can and aye we must.
Wull @ 9.46
A very interesting read Wull.
I had thought along those lines as well… IE..The change in position and the push for as good a Brexit as possible,must be in Scotland’s long term interests…
I had thought it was more about the Port’s than anything else, as in currently and, on Independence, they are all in England.
During the 2014 referendum that was the only issue,as far as I could see that gave Westminster an advantage.
Every thing else was either ours or we could walk away from,but not access to their port’s.
Over that we would have to deal..
That’s what I thought was the real Threat behind… there’s going to be a hard border,if you leave!
And that the target of that threat… businesses that export… understood it very well.
That’ll further tie the Orange Lodge vote to the Tories.
Wull, thanks for such a great reply. Hope I didn’t come over all mentalist.
No other European country has closed borders, not even Norway, and its basically has an EU membership, that England will probably agree to, unless the tories really have gone insane, Farage style.
I want to keep my EU citizenship, I want Scotland to Remain.
I think Remain Scotland, free of tory rule from London, would be an incredible economic opportunity. The EU itself is only going to get richer and more united, more productive, more liberal, more democratic, more everything that England thinks it can do better outside one of the world’s richest and most successful economic blocs.
on Friday, 29 March 2019, Scotland will no longer be a member of the European Union, despite voting to Remain a member twice and being very threatened by the Bettertogether campaign 2014, unless we voted NO we’d lose our EU membership and never get it back.
Its not long now.
Treeza signs pact with the Devil.
Thepnr @ 21:59,
I thought that Wull @ 21:46 put it rather well, namely that it’s in Scotland’s best interest that rUK should stay in the single market/customs union, since that maximises Scotland’s flexibility post-indy. That is a reasonable policy, and is even (arguably) in rUK’s best interest as well. A win-win all round.
But you seem to be inverting this in a subtle and unfortunate way, saying that Scotland can’t possibly stay in the EU because trade with an exited rUK would prevent it.
That’s an extremely bad argument for the supposed enhanced autonomy of independence, and seems to me to put a prime anti-indy spike back into the hands of the dastardly Unionists in exactly the same way as the proposed “currency union” did before, and which helped scupper us.
The last thing we need is being told that indy is “pointless” because England will really still pull all the economic strings.
And furthermore, it completely discards the strength which we would have as part of the EU in relation to England. These mad Brexiteers say they are going to trade with the whole world. Not the whole world except us. Let’s hold them to their word on that.
What purpose does this sniveling idiot offer to Scotland, and the Scottish residents?
SFA, I suspect 😉
Brian Doonthetoon on 26 June, 2017 at 8:42 pm. You are right that someone needs to tell Mrs May what the Union is. But she hasn’t a clue about that, and has no intention of finding out about it. She is reinventing a ‘Union’ of her own making, built only on her own feverish imagination, and on nothing of any legal substance.
Her ‘4-nation Union’ does not exist. It is a figment of the imagination. None of us should ever use that terminology. It is a smokescreen through which she is affirming that the only one of the 4 that counts – or even genuinely exists – is England. The other 3 are just so lucky to have been incorporated into the greatness of that big one; they should be grateful to be part of it. The UK=England is just so proud of us, for being so loyal to the English nation. Shouldn’t we be grateful for being counted as honorary Englishmen? Like Native Amnericans should be grateful to White America for keeping them on their nice Reservations, and giving them all these advantages of belonging in the US of A!
The UK is being redefined by stealth under our noses. And the Rule of Law is dead. This has been going on, big-time, and gathering steam, ever since England – sorry, the UK – lost its Empire. The only ‘Empire’ it’s got left is Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, all the subservient ‘nations’ – sorry ‘sub-nations’ – which are just so many feathers in her (England’s) cap.
Look at the language this woman uses, and you can see right away that she does not have the slightest clue what the UK is. She is the Prime Minister of an entity that exists only in her head. It is incredible how blatantly obvious this is … In the end, words do not lie: they reveal what lies within. Considering her degree is in geography, it is absolutely woeful that she does not have a political map of the entity she is supposed to be leading and governing.
Take a closer look, and you will see the utterly defective ‘map’ she is actually working with. And she will not change or alter it, or re-shape it to give it even a semblance of reality. It is truly frightening that such people – let me say, such ignorant people, for there is no other word for it but ignorance – can arrive at such positions of power and influence.
Mrs Thatcher said ‘there is no such thing as society’. Mrs may’s equivalent might be ‘there is no such thing as the British constitution’, which, unfortunately, has an element of truth in it. What this means for her – as for the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland – is that “‘the British Constitution’ means what I say it means.” I am the PM so I am in charge of it; I say what it is, and I decide what it means. And if I say Scotland’s union with England is the same as that of Wales, or Northern Ireland, then that is what it is, and there is nothing else for anyone to say about it. ‘Words mean what i say they mean – and you shut up!’
‘Brexit means Brexit – and that means it means the particular kind of Brexit I want and not someone else’s kind of Brexit’. (Even though what kind of Brexit it would be was never specified in the 2016 campaign, so it could – and did – mean diferent things to different people, even among those who voted for it.)
This is what it means to live in a state without a constitution – it’s called ‘arbitrary rule’.
Come on Scotland – we really have to get out of this mess. A mixture of a quagmire and a whirlpool, which is quickly puling everyone down with it … It is Scotland’s duty to go independent, and as quickly as possible. If only in order to give England the seismic shock that it needs, and make it wake up – before it is too late.
When the rule of law is thrown out the window, fascism is close at hand … We really do have to stop this …
The money tree link to m.youtube.com
@10.01
“Every car is a billboard, and Indyposter boy has the posters that get the info about our economy out. Lets start there. Lets flood the streets, the lampposts, etc, with the info.”
I couldn’t agree more.
Every city, every town, every village, every road sign, every car and every van, even spray the grass verges with a great big yes.
This deal doesn’t augur well for the people in the NE who thought the Tories were their protection. At the first sign of a deal these new Tory voters were dumped without a second thought. In fact there new MP is on screen explaining why Scotland should be excluded. But it’s hard to feel sorry for them, it’s what they voted for.
@ Wull 9:46
There might be substance in what you’re saying Wull, but the problem I have with that being true is that Nicola “taking one for the Team UK” and trying to accommodate a soft Brexit for all, is that Westminster seems profoundly ungrateful for Nicola going to such trouble, the Europeans think we are going lukewarm about actually staying in Europe, and as you began your comment, a significant section of the YES remainders, myself included, are not feeling in a mood to compromise about forfeiting EU membership for the booby prize of access to the free market.
I’m trying to be positive, but I don’t understand why Nicola is reluctant to play hardball. There is no common ground for consensus.
I’ve mentioned earlier, that it wouldn’t do us any harm to seek our own Brexit negotiations with Michel Barnier, and ask him to help Scotland confound the oppressive propaganda we have to deal by negotiating some kind of deal with Westminster over some limited devolution of Broadcasting.
I don’t really understand Nicola’s strategy, I hope it isn’t, but it’s beginning to read like once we have ruled out every other possible constitutional arrangement, the one we’ll be left with will be Independence. That’s not really an inspiring vision to take around the doorsteps of undecided Scotland. Please tell me it isn’t so.
The SNP seem preoccupied with not losing ground, when they should be preoccupied with winning the Referendum. I think Craig Murray is calling right. You need to sell the bold and positive vision of what Independence means, not simply rely on competence in government.
I pray with every fibre that Nicola does not shelve IndyRef2, but rather goes firm on a number of preconditions to the extent they become ultimatums. The sooner ScotRef becomes inevitable, the sooner campaigning shakes off this terrible procrastination.
Apparently, Scotland’s share of the DUP bribe is 90 millions – to be added to the putative 15 billions “black hole”!
I’m sure that Fluffy will throw cotton wool balls at gang lord May until she tell him to F***k Off.
Wee Tank Commander will be off on night manoeuvres with the Hatch firmly closed for a few days.
What a horrible nasty bunch of liars the Tories are.
If only newspaper reader knew how to use the internet.
This extra N.I money can now be used to support DUP leaders, their families and supporters to needlessly burn subsidised wood pellets for fuel and pocket a few
£Million more.
Westminster Mafia laundering funds to the Ulster Mafia.
The Cosa Nostra must be wondering where they went wrong.
@quentin quale who said:
26 June, 2017 at 9:12 pm
£1bn you say. That’ll be the first payment cos the thing about blackmail is…
Quite right Quentin . . .
Nick Macpherson, a former top civil servant in the Treasury, warned in a tweet: “£1 billion for Ulster is just a down payment. DUP will be back for more…again and again.
Always well to remember 2 points with regards to the Unionists/Loyalists in NI
1) they are Loyal to the half-crown, not the Crown. And
2) they display a conditional loyalty – Loyal as long as you do what we demand
link to mirror.co.uk
@Breeks
There is no prospect of Scotland negotiating its own deal with Barnier. In fact we would look stupid and lose any creditability by being rejected. It would end any chance of winning a vote and may also end the chance of having one.
I do agree being seen as a competent government may not in the long term promote independence since some will be content that they are doing well so why change it. Not sure how you solve this since if they are incompetent why would you want to follow them to independence.
It is not wholly within the SNP’s power to guarantee full membership unless the EU puts this on the table, which is unlikely. But if a holding pen membership plus independence is what ends up on offer, I will still vote for it. What’s the alternative, rejecting it because it doesn’t meet every single criteria I approve of.
I’m 63 next month I don’t have time to wait for another vote, if the answer is no this time the next one will be a long time off.
Breeks,
We got to here because of the YES Movement AND the SNP – the 2 are not the same, although they have the same goal.
They can and must cover different ground, different responsibilities, but pushing in the same direction.
I think the YES Movement understood early on it needed the SNP.
I don’t believe the SNP realised how much it needs the YES Movement. And it might just be the nature of that beast that even if it wants to, it is not equipped to set that ball in motion. I’m not out to bash them, I think they’re doing a great job really, and I’m not in their shoes to say they can go faster or walk further. Pretty good chance they’re giving their all , and there’s not much left in the tank.
One thing is clear, and I see no reasonable excuse why the SNP did not do it – information about the McCrone Report, About BBC bias, About the real condition of our economy… all of that and more should have been put into leaflets and posters into every door in the country.
But, no anger, no wasted energy, lets just get on with what needs done. We are the only ones who can and who will get it done. And it needs to be constant, relentless. We do not, and will not get MSM onside, not ever. And they have never stopped, not for a moment.
The posters are ready, there is no excuse for not. If you have a printer, get it going. Every car is a billboard. Every lamppost, every bus shelter, every grassy verge, every letterbox if appropriate for you to do so.
This is the gap – social media is well covered.
The time really is now folks.
Just watching Scotland tonight, it appears Doggie Ross is the new Tory spokesman as fuddly muddly is not available for comment today.
And Doggie is quite happy to see Scotland lose out on any additional funding, and he has certainly has an aptitude for defending Tory bribery.
I am sure he will be a welcome addition to the fuddly muddly team he certainly has talent for earse licking.
How the fuck did we lose Angus Robertson to that piece of shite.
PS, Scotland is looking for its Secretary of State, in fact everyone is looking for him.
Breeks @ 22:48,
I have a sneaking suspicion that the SNP has been unsettled way too much by the recent loss of WM MP’s. Excellent as many of those representatives undoubtedly were, they were always supposed to be “nae fur lang bidin’ there”. Some of them now give the impression of having become just a tad too fond of the place.
Maybe they need reminding that it’s Holyrood that is our sovereign Parliament.
A few interesting remarks in this discussion. Yes we have certainly been DUPed. Yes it threatens the Peace process in Ireland. Yes Scottish Tories have a power base in WM that they are too frit to use.
Indyref2 shouldn’t be rushed at. There’s a lot of ‘stuff’ to sort out – Listen to Richard Murphy on Journey to YES #16. That economics stuff has to be got right and that definitely includes having a currency and full control of it.
Scotland will need a Constitution so a future Scottish Maybot cannot make it up as she goes along.
The EU may well be a very good idea and a good thing to be part of, but democratic it ain’t and it isn’t even moving towards democracy; so have a look at DiEM 25 and maybe even get on board because if Scotland’s future is in Europe it wants to be a better union than currently exists.
Heedtracker at 10.15: No problem, heedtracker. You never came across as ‘mentalist’ at all. It was all fair comment as far as i am concerned.many thanks also for the further comment.
Breeks at 10:48 pm You might be surprised by how much I sympathise, and even agree with you. If NS does make the wrong call, no doubt I’ll even find myself agreeing with you further. But somehow – and I hope I am not being falsely over-optimistic – I really don’t think she is going to mess it up.
Of course, we’re speculating at the moment. We’ll just have to wait and see what she actually says. And that will mean reading carefully her full text. And ignoring all the daft spin the commentators will put on it.
I think she’s in a difficult position – but also able enough to get through it, and come out well on top. There must be pressures from all sides, within the inner groups inside the SNP. I think one of the major difficulties is how to keep the SNP together, and visibly united, while still appealing to the wider – much wider, and much more variegated – Yes movement more generally.
I don’t think they succeeded in that respect as well as they might have done, in the recent GE. Maybe indeed in either of these respects, but especially in still appealing to all those many loan voters from the Yes campaign who gave them their vote in 2015, although they were not natural SNP voters.
I think the SNP are afraid that they will split before independence is attained. Their objective is certainly to gain independence, but also to be the Party of Government when that happens, and for quite some time afterwards.
They know the tensions among themselves, that they are a broad church, and that they have been very successful until now in containing the potential splits and factions that could so easily arise within their ranks and damage them. That has become more difficult since their membership increased so dramatically after Indyref1. We were surprised when Alex Neil came out against full membership of the EU, and also perhaps by NS’s tolerance of that breach of Party discipline, but I suppose insiders were not. Just as they would not have been surprised by the number of SNP voters voting Leave (30% some said).
If certain compromises are made to keep the SNP together, these surely look suspect to certain Yes movement people, and diminish the SNP in their eyes. Also when they seem to be too cautious about independence, and Indyref2. Yet it remains true that come independence, we will need a united and strong SNP that can conduct the necessary negotiations well and guarantee stable government in the first years of being an independent country. There is no contender for that role other than the SNP, and the SNP will have much more experience of government than any other Party.
So, I do sympathise with the fact that NS has to keep the SNP together. The worst possible thing for the independence movement would be for the SNP to implode or divide. Even those who do not naturally support the SNP but want independence know there is no other vehicle available for achieving that end. So I think we do hav to give the leadership of the SNP, and NS in particular, the benefit of the doubt when we tend to be frustrated and impatient with what we see as a lack of progress towards achieving the goal we all share, namely independence. The kind of independence we are going to get, and the kind of country we become, are also important factors to consider. And not just independence as an end in itself.
Anyway, as we wait – with baited breath – to see exactly what NS is going to say, I think we should remain hopeful, and cautiously optimistic. Even a little bit upbeat. NS won’t be able to please all of us in every aspect, but I remain that she will make a very good fist of it. So that we can all go forward together. Let’s hope so …
One last bit of rabble rousing before I quit for the night…
America’s civil rights movement.
The leaders had a meet with President Kennedy, and he told them, ‘make it so I have to’.
The human rights legislation was on a knife edge. And JFK was quoting Roosevelt before him.
That conversation lead to the huge rally and Martin Luther Kings ‘ I have a Dream’ speech.
This is not the First Minsister’s Indy, this is Not the SNP’s, this is not the YES Movements.
It is all of us, together, and we have got to ‘make it so they have to’.
And always, one bit of decency at a time… and a lot of humour, we’re going to need the humour.
A number of great posts on here as per usual.
In particular, spot on to Wull (9:46pm), Thepnr (9:59pm) and Liz g (10:12pm).
Nicola Sturgeon is far from being daft and of course will be privy to information that we’re not aware of. Some of the practicalities have been pointed out in these posts not least of all the implications of a hard border and our access to ports. Check out ports in Scotland versus England for example in relation to who has control over them.
Great post Daisy with some good advice on bucking ourselves up. As to car posters you can make your own, as some members of my family have done. On that issue I’d like to point out that you’ll get pulled over if you obstruct your vision and if you leave them in place when you park your car you’re at risk of having your car damaged, as has happened to some of us. Better to hope that they’ll be read on a side window when you stop at lights and so on and remove them when you leave your car. Saltire flags on motorcycles has been another issue for us where they have been snapped off.
Anyway looking forward to seeing you all with your car posters on display! Meanwhile I’m looking into the cost of renting a small premise to broadcast some key, influential videos in the window keeping in mind that the so-called peace loving Unionists will probably target that too.
However when you consider what other countries / people have had to put up with to get shot of Westminster it’s a small price to pay and won’t be dragging on for too much longer. Thank God.
It obvious now that the extreme unionists in Scotland (OK Prof) would happily see the army on the street indiscriminately shooting civilians. They would be proud that these people had given their lives to save the union. No action is too extreme for them to wipe out what they see as the cancer of separatism.
I’m not convinced they will accept the result of an independence vote, after all the events in George Square indicate how angry they were when they won. And with the media still behind them it would be swept away as it was then.
Graun says,
“Aside from the extra £1bn-plus the Tories have agreed to inject into capital spending and other projects in Northern Ireland, the DUP will be looking for more deals as it continues to shore up the Conservatives, party sources in Belfast told the Guardian.
The abolition or radical cut to the air passenger duty tax for the region’s three airports would be a “post-Brexit ask” by the DUP, the sources said.
The other major concession the DUP would seek in its ongoing support for a Tory government depending on the backing of 10 Democratic Unionist MPs would be special corporation tax status for Northern Ireland.”
Nice, why was Scots corp tax blocked in their The Vow shyst/promises though?
“But the Tory leader in Scotland, Ruth Davidson, accused the SNP of hypocrisy: “It’s absurd for the SNP to criticise UK government spending on top of Barnett in Northern Ireland, when the exact same thing happens in Scotland.”
What a bunch.
Ross Thomson left Aberdeen City devastated. The biggest grotesque monstrosity. Cost £200Million. The City in £1.2Billion in debt. The City sold on the stock market. Public money totally wasted. People were protesting in the street. How it got through the planning office is a mystery. The City Officers appointed passed it through. Along with £200,000 funding to build a dyke along a councillor’s boundary. No action being taken.
What was the City deal spent on? . A load of rubbish. The City short of 130 teachers.
Labour is now propping up the Tories. After destroying the City Centre. Wasting £Billions. They are now paying people off. Teachers are being given chance of volunteer redundancy.
The Tories are illegally taxing the Scottish Oil/Gas sector at 40% since Jan 2016. losing thousands of jobs and £Billions of revenues.
A 74 Tory councillor is now going to Holyrood on the list. Has a holiday home in Inverness and goes sailing. Now picking up two salaries. Refusing to give a post. .
Alex Salmond did more for the NE in five years than the Unionists did in over fifty.
Imagine voting for the Tories. It won’t last long.
Heedtracker @ 11.53
Aye, apparently they are trying to say that it’s just a city deal really!!!
ERM… mibbi sumbudy should tell Ruthie…. Northern Ireland is no a city.
Or else we need a country wide,city deal too!
I used to look at my payslip and wonder what NI contributions were…… Now i know……
We’re being taken for mugs yet again.. Daisy above, couldny have said it better ,Education is needed and the McCrone report is the starting point, Nobody I tell it to knows, FFS we’re missing summit.
If Education is Oor Nicolas’ thing then start with that AND Oor History.
We’re either a(The Yes Movement) sleeping giant or we’re sleeping.By fuck wee need tae waken up soon.
“Wull @ 0946pm”, a very interesting post, and I agree with much of your perceptions.
My own interpretation of the last 12-18 months is that the Tories have prevaricated on Brexit, as they
are more concerned with ” the precious precious union ” and thus Brexit is very much linked to
the increasing/decreasing possibility of Independence. It is beginning to look like May’s ” hard Brexit strategy” could be tested against ” the likelihood of Independence happening” in the early months of the negotiations . If the Tories think that they could get away with a hard Brexit without ” breaking the union” then possibly they might be prepared to gamble on this. However, if the prospect of independence would appear ” more likely” after say 9-12 months of negotiations, then TM could well be ” replaced” with someone ( Hammond?), who would declare for a ” soft Brexit” ( in an attempt to reduce the likelihood of independence. ). However, if the FM played ” hardball” and insisted on (1) single/market and/or CU membership (2) agriculture & fisheries to be returned to Holyrood (3) interim dual EU/UK citizenship for Scots residents , until the future referendum date. (4) Scottish immigration matters to be devolved to Holyrood (5) Broadcasting to come under Holyrood control, then possibly she could offer to delay the referendum date?
If support for Independence continued to increase in the later stages of say a ” soft Brexit” negotiation, then I would expect the Tories would call a general election and I would expect Labour to be ” put in to bat ” by the establishment to save the union. The usual ” Federal Devo super duper max drivel” would be back on the agenda in a last ditch attempt to thwart independence.
It ‘s really down to how our FM ” plays it” over the next circa18-24 months . Be in no doubt she is up against opponents who will attempt to stymie and wrong foot her at every opportunity. Can we all unite behind her as she will need all the moral and practical help each and every one of us can give. This is our best chance for a ” generation” ( however long that might be?).
Right Fluffy is a Tory, Colonel Blimp is a Tory so their lips moved – they are LYING, NO IFS, NO BUTS, FULL STOP.
Auld Rock
North Chiel @ 12.36
Yip…and ma money is on ” Sovereignty within the Union ”
Replacing … Stronger Faster Safer Change….
As the Indy ref 2 sound bite!
It will ofcourse need to be road tested,and plausible replies to any rebuttals made ready first.
Wonder where they would try that?
Tis indeed a puzzle..
Was there not other papers released under the 30 secrecy rule which showed that during the 80’s while oil revenues were at their height Scotland’s budget was being cut while all other areas of the UK were seeing theirs rise?
The whole time we Scots were being told how poor we were and how generous the English were to us.
Unionism has a lot to answer for.
Maybe the SNP should invest in our own state of the art ports which would allow us to cut vehicle emissions across the UK. It would wind up Westminster no doubt too because it’d be one less way in which they could threaten our exports and businesses. Funny how the same threats are being used today that were used 300 odd years ago isn’t it. Our neighbour has changed little in that time really.
Interesting posts on what the future might be.
Just a couple of points. I’m sure I read a comment from Alex Neil that he was used as the ‘lightening rod’ for Leavers. I’m inclined to believe that strategy, because he has always acted within Party discipline. It’s a response to the criticism of SNP being controlling of opinions.
I don’t think Scotland has a hope in hell of having any additional powers repatriated. Things with EU have started badly, and will get worse. I still stick with predictions months ago, we will crash out.
Crashing out means UK needs control over every single resource it can muster, to even get anyone interested e.g. Healthcare, USA, food and drink etc.
No other country is interested in trading with a laughing stock, who has no respect for the basics of trade, who won’t pay the exit fee, who wants to close the door etc.
In my hysterical moments, I see the dissolution of Holyrood, and two mayoral cities in Scotland, as we are assimilated into One Nation, for the good of the precious Union.
@Col
Taken from Scottish Devt site
Scots ports handle international cargo, warehousing and distribution, passenger ferries, and offshore oil and gas services
Grangemouth port on the east coast is Scotland’s largest multi-modal container terminal and a major UK petro-chemical complex
There are seven major, fully-operational deep-water ports in Scotland
Frequent ferry services service connect with Europe, Ireland and Scotland’s island communities
Scotland’s west coast harbours offer comprehensive mooring, chandlery and leisure facilities for yachting
Disgraceful comments by Rock, at 9:05pm:
“The more Nicola dithers, the worse it becomes.
She spectacularly missed a golden opportunity to strike when the iron was hot.
Admit it or not, things are not looking bright for independence.”
Putting the boot into Nicola Sturgeon personally; making deliberately depressing comments about indy; regular bitching about the only pro-indy daily paper, the National; and worst of all never making any positive messages or suggestions.
Never.
The independence movement can do without “friends” such as Rock.
Davidson’s been royally shafted by Magic Money Treez, in a replay of Cameron outside No. 10 after the Indy ref with his ‘English votes for English laws’ spite.
Scottish Tories. Propping up the DUP and paying for it.
You’re irrelevant Ruth. You and your Scots Labour cronies.
Davidson. Burst balloon.
jfngw @ 26 June, 2017 at 10:42 pm
As I had mentioned in previous comment of the Tories doing nothing wrong as their manifesto only consisted of no second referendum and nothing else.
Scots who voted Tories at the recent elections are exactly the same as those who used to vote for Labour, cannon fodder who’s sole purpose is to continue and further the career of Tory politicians.
Great posts and discussions this eve. Thanks for all the links.
Slowly, slowly perhaps the message is sinking in to some people’s minds on here that the SNP are ‘not’ bad. Have a little faith in your First Minister fgsakes.
Petra @11.36 …’Nicola Sturgeon is far from being daft and of course will be privy to information that we’re not aware of’
Absolutely! Sometimes I think a lot of people forget that and can’t imagine why they would be left out of the loop. She’s no stupid lady.
Nicola Sturgeon is exactly the right woman for the job and the shit she has had to put up with from all angles and parties is utterly disgraceful. She needs our help not our bias.
Your absolutely right @Daisy, it is all us who are in this movement towards Independence and our duty to help carry this forward in every which way we can.
(Without kicking the shit out of our strong FM who is and will do, in the best way she can, to always fight for Independence)
I came up with a one line poem tonight for the troll ( not Auld Rock ) rock yer a cock.
Good read with your corn flakes,listening to BBC Scotland blackout any 3rd party SNP stuff in its DUP reportage. I just wish someone could be more specific about the democratic it ain’t EU though.
Street Andrew says:
“The EU may well be a very good idea and a good thing to be part of, but democratic it ain’t and it isn’t even moving towards democracy; so have a look at DiEM 25 and maybe even get on board because if Scotland’s future is in Europe it wants to be a better union than currently exists”
link to en.wikipedia.org
“The organization cites the emerging extremist nationalism of some new political parties as well as the so-called Brexit and Grexit state departure initiatives as evidence of this impending European fracture.”
Prominent members are interesting.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Tories just made up failed Perth tory candidate to Lordshipness last week, beeb Scotland gimps say its great, not at all an appalling display of lots of things that have nothing to do with democracy. But, EU bad.
Imagine living in an actual Scottish democracy, and not being brainwashed, its great to have another tory Lord, in the UK, Scotland, by massed ranks of beeb gimps.
link to bbc.co.uk
Indyref2, asap 😀
Nice one Willie B. NI contributions. Wish I’d thought of that.
In Edinburgh the proprietors of the notorious tourist trash shops are allowed to blare out ‘Scottish’ music at high volume from their many shops most of which are located on main thoroughfares.
If that is allowed why can’t YES or any other independence supporting organisation acquire a shop in a prominent position, install a large screen TV in the window connected to outside speakers to carry the sound and play the likes of Diomhair, the clips of the NO to YES converts,McCrone, the BBC bias expose of REF1 etc.
Arlene’s raid on the Treasury is the modern equivalent of the Danegeld & once you paid the Dane they were right back demanding more. The NI heating scandal demonstrates Arlene’s financial incompetence, what will she squander the Danegeld on?
Warm yer Hole with Arlene’s Coal!
Has Queenie started to speak with an ” Ulstur” accent?
link to bbc.co.uk
Money tree does exist.
May lies again
Listening to that weasel MP Tory Ross on GMS makes me pray “please,please let us get ripped right out of the UK”
Where was Mundell and Colonel Davidson ??? Right enough,you cannot defend the indefensible.
Ports.
Read somewhere recently that Grangemouth is the only port in the UK where exports through the port exceed imports.
Imagine a lot of it may be chemicals etc but don’t have details.
Maybe someone can find them. Nit in the country just now.
I don’t want to see the SNP damaged or Nicola’s leadership undermined, but there is no sign of a pro Independence campaign in the media, no effective presence of YES reborn, no tangible evidence that Scotland is having any roll in Brexit besides impotent bystander, and time is running before Scotland reaches a fork in the road has to make a radicle choice about opting for Europe or sticking with UK Brexit.
Scotland is being subjected to the pernicious drip, drip, drip of BritNat propaganda. There is the ubiquitous SNPbad as ever, but there is the outright distortion of defeated Unionist parties being lauded as victors, and the chasms of division between branch office and London HQ ignored. Kezia’s “Vote Tory to stop the SNP” actually cost her boss his majority, and the DUP is giving May her the shaky majority which Panzermooth Davidson promised couldn’t deliver even trawling the depths of sectarianism. And lastly, perhaps most dangerous of all, the delusional hopes for a better world after Brexit are being repeated without any analytical criticism, while Europe is increasingly portrayed as the enemy Britain is well shot of.
Frankly, I find it rather tiresome and increasingly unconvincing that everything is ticketyboo and it’s all going to Plan, but a plan which only the SNP is permitted to know about.
If the SNP is feeling the squeeze, reach out. Reach out to YES, reach out to Barnier, Verhoftstadt, and Junckers. Don’t cold shoulder the very people who are willing the SNP to do well and keep Scotland as a member of the EU.
I didn’t say Scotland should seek its own Brexit deal with Barnier jfngw. What I was trying to advocate was some initiative and vigour put into a campaign for Free Scottish Broadcasting, a campaign which would inevitably be strangled by Westminster, but THEN our friends with leverage, Barnier included, could use that leverage to help us. Use their leverage over Brexit negotiations and give Scotland an all too brief but vital access to the political dialogue of Independence and EU membership unfettered by the very same BritNat propaganda which hatched the original Brexit phenomenon. Europe has already said the devolved Nations should be listened to. They have to use codified language, so we have to provide them with an interface to connect with.
Or we do what? Do you seriously contend that we have no pro Independence campaign, sit on our hands playing no part in Brexit, wait til Brexit is concluded, but just before it’s signed off, we hold a snap referendum and sweep to victory? Our battlecry for Independence being “Hmmm, I’m not keen on that Brexit deal”.
Please SNP people, please tell me you recognise this deafening silence AS deafening silence. If you think that my concern about losing ScotRef and being kicked out of Europe is just a mean attack on Nicola, then shit, shit, shit, boys and girls we really are in trouble.
@ gus1940 says at 7:11 am …. ”In Edinburgh the proprietors of the notorious tourist trash shops are allowed to blare out ‘Scottish’ music at high volume from their many shops most of which are located on main thoroughfares.
If that is allowed why can’t YES or any other independence supporting organisation acquire a shop in a prominent position, install a large screen TV in the window connected to outside speakers to carry the sound and play the likes of Diomhair, the clips of the NO to YES converts, McCrone, the BBC bias expose of REF1 etc.”
That’s what I’m looking into right now Gus however the prices range from a few hundred a month to the thousands. I’ve been looking at a couple of places to rent for around £400 a month plus CT. We wouldn’t have to pay for a television license if we were only showing, say youtube videos. If we had more than one window we could display Stu’s data, and so on, and sell inside.
If every constituency would get their members (and others) to chip in it would be a dawdle, for example monthly costs around £1000 (divided by 100 people = £10 a month – 50 people = £20 a month). Even if it was double that amount per month, say £2000, it would still be within our reach. I reckon it’s the way forward. The only viable way of combatting the propaganda machine. As an example I’ve lost count of the people I’ve set on the Yes course by showing them McCrone and Stolen Seas alone.
Seeing quote a bit of “Im in the YES Club, its posititvely great” style posts here but all the happy clapping in the world isn’t going to get us anywhere unless there is a solid argument and desirable vision being sold in media and Parliament by Independence representatives at every opportunity.
The SNP need to remember they are NOT part of the UK Government, they will not get to add anything worthwhile to Brexit negotiations and they do not have anyone’s ear either in UK, Europe or around the world. They are waiting to simply mop up messes like a wannabee Cinderella looking at a Ball ticket.
The only people who want to hear what SNP and YES campaign leaders (whoever they are?) are the people of Scotland and already they are looking at their shoes wondering whats going on.
Look at the disasters so far and where are the outcries from Scots YES respresentatives?
Brexit..nope..took it on chin
Tory Manifesto claims – took it on chin
DUP deal – taking it on the chin
Mundell\Davidson absent after resignation worthy deal- not a peep
I have no idea what the YES campaign are waiting on but if its a “big event to get behind or rally the troops against” then I think Gods already sent a car, a boat and a helicopter if anyone knows that old joke!
The Unexpected Twist”? Was that the Chubby Checker single that got banned by the BBC?
@Desimond
Mackay (SNP) in Holyrood todayL
“If this matter cannot be resolved with HM Treasury, then we will invoke formal dispute resolution proceedings to ensure that this matter is resolved.”
What more do you want them to do about the deal?
And as for Brexit, the negotiations are barely begun, nobody has a clue what the end result will be, least of all dickie Davis.