The unionist case for independence
The unionist case for Scots voting No in the independence referendum is encapsulated in the following quote from the website of “Better Together”, the official No campaign:
“Devolution offers us the best of both worlds: we have a strong Scottish Parliament taking important decisions about schools, hospitals and jobs AND we benefit from the strength, security and opportunities we can take advantage of being part of a bigger United Kingdom.”
The main problem with this argument is that there’s an alternative Union which would provide the Scottish Parliament with more powers to “take important decisions about” things and allow Scotland to “benefit from” and “take advantage of’” the “strength, security and opportunities” of being part of something far bigger than the UK itself.
The European Union’s population is 508 million – only China and India have more people – whereas the UK’s population is 64m. According to 2013 figures, the EU economy is the largest in the world by nominal GDP and the second largest by GDP (PPP) whereas the UK economy is the 6th- and 8th-largest respectively. In sport, had the EU competed as a single team in the 2012 Olympics, it would have come first.
This size and strength makes the EU a major player globally, and in its wider international role it increasingly supplants its individual member states. For example, it was the EU, not member states, that convened on 17 April with the US, Russia, and Ukraine to help resolve the growing crisis in eastern Ukraine.
The EU has its own foreign minister (the High Representative of the Union), its own foreign ministry and diplomatic corps in the form of the European External Action Service, and its own diplomatic missions around the world.
It also has its own representation at the United Nations, the G8 and G20, and is a member of the World Trade Organisation. In addition, it has its own Battlegroups that give it an autonomous military capability.
As an independent member state of the EU, Scotland would have far greater powers than those devolved by the Westminster parliament, and sovereignty over those powers would be at Holyrood, not retained by Westminster. They would give Scotland control of all domestic policy, to tailor to its own needs.
This would include a defence policy to remedy the UK’s failings in both defending Scotland properly (eg no ocean-going surface vessels based in Scotland, no UK maritime reconaissance aircraft) and making Scotland a more dangerous place to live (eg the Glasgow Airport terror attack as retaliation for the UK’s military actions against Iraq, the presence of Trident within 40km of our largest city).
Scotland, like most European countries including the UK currently, would also continue to enjoy the security of being part of the ‘bigger’ NATO military alliance and its collective defence provisions.
Under devolution, Scotland has no input into UK international policy As a member state of the EU, however, Scotland would have its own representative in the European Council and its own commissioner in the European Commission.
Scotland would also have its own government minister – and vote – in the Council of the European Union, where voting requires either unanimity or a majority of countries, as well as its turn in the rotation of its presidency.
Independence, though, would be far from the end of the British dimension to Scottish life: the Union of the Crowns would continue; Scotland would remain a part of the Common Travel Area currently shared between the UK, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey; it would retain sterling, possibly as part of a formal currency zone, and still be a member of the British-Irish Council.
Free of the grievance politics of such issues as “subsidy”, the West Lothian Question, and frustrated Scottish aspiration, Anglo-Scottish relations might actually improve.
And internationally, particularly in the EU, shared British interests would have an extra voice and vote. Scotland and the rUK would INCREASE their influence by coming together by mutual consent for mutual benefit.
For Scotland, therefore, independence in the EU not only offers the “best of both worlds” claimed by Unionists to a far greater degree than the UK does, but by aligning Scotland’s constitutional status with the post-war, post-Empire world of Anglo-Scottish divergence and European convergence, it offers the best of all worlds, where Scots can enjoy their Scottish, British and European identities.
Ironically, it’s by remaining in one union – one that’s set on a seemingly unstoppable path to leave the EU – that we would put at most risk exactly the things that Unionists tell us are so great about them. Any true unionist, therefore, could only vote Yes.
Wow! Excellent article! Who is Hamish Scott ?
So shared!
Cheers
Well that was something I never thought I’d read. I’m sending this to quite a few friends…
However, I have to say, I’d rather we weren’t in NATO. I don’t want Scotland to be part of an organisation that has nuclear weapons.
Your spelling error hit me like a knife between the shoulder-blades.
careful Rev, cue tomorrows headlines
“Rolf tagline take down referendum website.”
Great read, Hamish.
“Your spelling error hit me like a knife between the shoulder-blades.”
Huh?
RevStu: perhaps he meant enscapulated – not knowing it’s a viable alternative. However, it’s also possible he quite validly meant reconaissance.
Anyway, great article spelling mistakes the lot. Will send it on.
Clever pun on scapula!
As I read that interesting & compelling article, Nigel Farage felt someone walk over his grave.
An interesting perspective.
Very good article Hamish, you eloquently put forward, the overwhelming case for, Scottish independence, and EU membership.
“enscapulated”
Aha!
Er, I mean, IT DOESN’T EVEN SAY THAT, YOU IDIOT.
This is a great article. It comes at the “Best of Both Worlds” No argument from a completely different direction and completely decimates it.
It’s only after reading something like this that you wonder “now why didn’t I think about it this way before, it’s so obvious”.
This is article provides some very powerful arguments to put to undecided voters.
Well done Hamish!
Thought you might like an insight into unionit thinking.This is from one of the more intelligent chookies I’ve been annoying on the Scotsman.
“Independent Thinker
5:24 PM on 15/05/2014
The British……,
Let’s go through this slowly.
GB is a geographic description and includes Scotland Wales and England. It is the largest island in the British Isles (even my 10 year-old knows this even if you don’t).
If Scotland becomes independent GB does NOT break up. It still exists as an island. As does the British Isles. Are you of course aware of the name Great Britain and its connection to Brittany – right?
Until 1922 we had the UK of Great Britain and Ireland. When Ireland left it became UK of Great Britain and NI. And BTW Ireland did not demand a currency union and the Union Flag did not change. It still has the Cross of St Patrick. (so guess what’s going to happen if Scotland leaves)
If Scotland leaves it will probably be called UK of England, Wales and NI. Or it could adopt any name that it chooses. And there is nothing Scotland can do about that. Just as nobody could force Scotland to rename itself New Alba-ania
This new UK (EWNI) will be a sovereign state in its own right with a political union of England Wales and NI.
If Scotland adopts ERII as Queen, then she becomes the head of state of Scotland, just like for Canada and Australia. BUT Scotland does not reform as a United Kingdom of anything because clearly it is not a united kingdom any more. If you want to be part of the UK you need a political union.
Just because 2 countries share ERII as a head of state does not mean they are in the UK. If that has confused you, think about Canada and Australia.
Understand now?
Hope you guys have as much a laugh as I had.Albeit one tinged with regret that there are those out there who think this is true.
Good on the Weir’s their total sum given to the independence cause now stands at a whopping £5.5 million pounds.
link to ft.com
Fantastic Article Hamish.
Thanks Rev
A great line of thought Hamish. A good read too.
Hamish Scott brilliant. what a nice simply easy to read piece for leaving the rUK and staying in the EU. wonderful work .off to post this to everyone i can
Hamish Scott ??? and nice nom de plume /
more like this sir please.
Who told David Cameron go on Reporting Scotland that’s a vote winner.
Jeez.
Sorry to be a bit of a damp squib, but I see EU membership as a potential wedge issue. Not all supporters of Scottish independence are pro EU. This is a secondary issue, IMO.
Vote YES
Just watching Cameron waffle on BetterTogether BBC news all about devo for Scotland but he says “Voting YES will end it.” Clever!
OK, need to go O/T, need to go O/T…..
Heard on BBC 24 hour roiling news, that a consortium of YouTube, the Torygraph aaaaaaaaaaand the Gaurdian, are bidding to host the political debates.
(Any lefty thinkers who still held onto shreds of hope that the Grauniad was still intriscally a leftitst voice, can admit the reality that it’s deffo NOT).
This tripod bid was announced by Gavin Esler, who, with a completely straight faced ‘concerned’ look, announced that, of course, these online debates wouldn’t have to comply with any ‘impartiality ‘ rules that the BBC would be governed by!!!!
Really, ROFGLAD (rolling on floor, gurgling like a drain). 🙂
Is there no beginning to their competence?
As one who has been aware of tgis argument for a long time I feel I can add to the mix slightly. First I generally agree with the article, though it should be pointed out that EU membership or the lack of it does not preclude being part of the European free trade area (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) as an oil rich country it wouldn’t be a disaster to be outside the EU. Better Together to coin a phrase I heard somewhere but…
Secondly there is currently a small corner of Europe with one small to medium sized nation, several tinies and one nasty medium to large formal imperial oower still wanting to bully her immediate neighbours. Scotland joining Ireland will counter that and all the nations of these Isles can flourish as a true family. Right now its disfunctional.
“Devolution offers us the best of both worlds: we have a strong Scottish Parliament taking important decisions about schools, hospitals and jobs AND we benefit from the strength, security and opportunities we can take advantage of being part of a bigger United Kingdom.”
But we will continue to hold the purse strings.
What an amazing article and so, so true. This is the future for Scotland. Oh I pray for a YES so it can be realized.
I am working a lot on the continent and see everyday how my colleagues from Greece, Italy, Austria, Germany, France, Holland, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Russia are just like me. Think like me. Think like US. WE are NORMAL. Scotland is normal.
The UK/London currently are mad. If we vote NO, God forbid, then we are locking ourselves into a lunatic asylum.
Heedtracker
I wonder if Alex Salmond will get the same soft soap treatment Cameron got on BBC Scotland just now and ask him what he thinks about Robbie Neilson as the new Hearts manager, or his views on Michael Stewart backing Sport for YES.
O/T. This encouraging Scottish sports stars launch, Sport for Yes.
link to heraldscotland.com
Just a wee reminder, just under 10 minutes to Livestream guys.
link to new.livestream.com
BBC Reporting Scotland is a disgrace.
British Labour talks shite, British Broadcasting repeats the shite.
Example. BBC lacky reports that Lamont says an SNP minister has been caught eating a 3 month old baby. British Broadcasting beams the story into every home that an SNP minister has eaten a 3 month old baby. Allegedly.
And in other news, fitba.
Cameron mentioned on Reporting Scotland that the Labour Party had already put forward proposals for more powers for the Scottish parliament.
If he is thinking of offering Scots anything like what labour have put forward, then he can stick his offer right up his “ronson”.
I wonder how many undecided voters suddenly decided after watchin that patronising Tory piece of shit.
Halfwit!
Cover image shows an EU without Greece. What are you saying, Stu? 😛
Almost as much fun as hearing Cameron state on Reporting Scotland that voting Yes will end devolution was catching the bit on his visit to a barracks when a BBC cameraman had his camera linger on the Paratrooper’s badge filling the TV screen with a lovely pair of Wings.
” the EU has its own foreign minister, the High Representative of the Union”
Current holder of this position is Baroness Ashton, a Labour life peer elected by nobody and appointed to the post. It is very worrying and hardly an attribute of the EU that this powerful position can be held by an unelected politician.
I am otherwise generally in favour of membership of the EU and impressed by your article.
@ Another Union Dividend, it was just awful. No detail, no real world stuff, nothing on their no currency bluff yesterday etc, just another absolutely disgraceful display from Pacific Quay.
You can see they give the git the questions up front but tomorrow, Sally will try and beat a “what’s plan B for no sterling” out of Salmond just for starters.
What was with the fitba question I mean wtf, let’s give Dishface a chance to show he’s up with what’s happening in Scotland. Obviously coached by Toodle-oo-the-noo, make you f*ckin sick
enSCAPULAted.
D’oh, just page-refreshed to find how many others had in beaten me to it. Sigh.
We don’t have the best of both worlds we have the worst of them. Important economic levers divided between two governments is a very second-best way of doing things. For example having income tax rates decided in Holyrood while Westminster sets the thresholds is pointless. All we can do is either lose revenue or else make everyone pay more tax while any extra revenue is lost from the block grant. We can’t structure the tax system to suit Scotland’s economy, spending and revenue requirements. All we can do is tinker about around the edges.
Another point about the EU. One of the supposed advantages we are told we derive from the UK is that we are able to access the embassies and consulates all over the world. Yet under the rights conferred by EU citizenship any EU citizen is entitled to consular assistance at the embassies and consulates of any other EU member state. The only way we wold lose access to the UK embassies would be if the UK leaves the EU.
I forgot Cameron is staying the night.
Where will he stay? Will it be back at the Partick barracks with those parras’ for protection.
Or will Sally give him a night out in Glasgow.
He could even get Naughtie’s room across the river Clyde from Pacific Quay in the Crowne Plaza Hotel.
And round two tomorrow, I wonder what he will lovebomb us with.
Does he really think we believe a single word he says?
@Juteman
Reporting Scotland will be the last bastion and refuge of BTBBC. I predict Pacific Quay will improve balance on late night TV and all radio stuff over the coming months, but will stick it out/be brass-necked re Distorting Scotchland until the bitter end.
‘Yes’ should really try to expose/tackle Reporting Scotland and its modus operandi soon, with billboards and/or ads in Daily Record, etc. They already have money for this, don’t understand why they haven’t started doing it already, it is a high, if not the highest priority…
Btw 1, this is a great article, love the turning of BT’s empty slogans against them, it is getting a good number of re-tweets – btw 2, hope all posters and readers here are already on or thinking of getting on Twitter v soon…its great for sharing and learning and supporting those on the streets and doorsteps – btw 3 where I also hope you are all already going or are thinking of starting to go v soon!)
Brilliant Livestream… get on now folks… its not long started.
link to new.livestream.com
Sorry for O.T, but someone has rained on Cameron’s parade.
“Scottish independence campaign gets boost from former senior diplomat”
“David Cameron dealt a blow on first day of Scotland trip as Colin Munro insists negotiations would take place on currency union”
link to theguardian.com
“Proud Unionists for Yes”, I like the sound of that 🙂
BetterTogether AND SaferTogether – some of our European brother-nations might even have planes on their aircraft carriers!
jeez, what a predicament. do i watch the live feed from the yes side or the live feed from the no side?
oh no the EU debt train,looks like everybodys aboard how great it is to be indebted to someone else,another black hole for ordanary peoples monies.like i said rev theirs more than one conspiracey,for every story the main stream media cover then theirs the truth.
What a terrific way of looking at the best of both worlds.
O/T
BBC decide not to suspend CBI membership – I decide to cancel TV licence direct debit – seems a fair trade off ?
After september I will never have to pay it anyway, so heres looking forward to a new Scottish media.
Sorry for OT
Tommy Sheridan talking live now:
link to new.livestream.com
new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/2980688
sheriden on fire
[…] The unionist case for independence […]
I thought the fitba question could have been designed to trip Cameron up. Perhaps Sally thought he wouldn’t know who was playing? Sometimes I think we can be a bit too sensitive about the BBC, bad as they undoubtedly are.
@ Harry, if you have the PM saying more devo if you vote no, is there not a professorial obligation to ask what this more devo actually is? Magnuson said nothing. In 79, same unionist bullshit was vote no for more devo and look what happened.
Um… lovely wee leaflet through the door today from the Scotlibdems.org.uk declaring “Would you gamble hundreds of thousands of Scottish jobs away?”, lovely to see that the leaflet was printed by Bishops Printers, Walton Road, Portsmouth, PO6 1TR.
The sheer number of “positive benefits of the Union” that can easily be shot down with “no, we get that from the EU, not the UK” is almost embarrassingly easy to toss out in debate.
Another great article – well done Wings team.
I’m just in and my son has phoned to say Sally Magnusson on Reporting Scotland has given the P.M a hard time. I can hardly believe this so can anybody confirm.
Sure that I heard Sally Magnusson say something like “… when the Prime Minister, David Cameron, will make the positive case for no to an independent Scotland.”…
Well, loads of waffle about ‘stronger together’, ‘best of both worlds’ and faux-promises of jam-tomorrow do not a positive case make for no to an independent Scotland.
Or did Cameron just give proof to the indisputable truth that there really is no positive case for the union? More than likely, because if there was one, it would have been trumpeted without pause by the MSM from day one of the campaigning. Instead, all we’ve had is [….. white noise …..]
Still time to catch a good bit of the livestream…
link to new.livestream.com
Beat me to it Alba 😀
🙂
Of course he knew about the football teams, he was well rehearsed by BT of BT BBC, and who can’t pronounce Kirkaldy because he wasn’t briefed already. 🙂
O/T so big apologies and first post for a long time lurker.
I had a very heated debate last night with a ‘staunch’ unionist who challenged me on the Scotland actually subsidises rUK argument. I said official figures basically show this over the past three decades. He said he wanted me to send him the data. I can find plenty of articles referring to this, including those by the Rev, but no tables of data.
Also does anyone have a link to the 1952/53 data? Again, apologies for being way off topic but my searching skills clearly need to improve.
Any help would be most gratefully received.
@Alex – She pushed him a bit on why he won’t debate FM which was good but let him off the hook when he alluded that FM is leader of the yes campaign. You’ll get it later on iplayer.
Turning the enemy’s artillery against your enemy, is the best approach, so I do appreciate the article Hamish. Saying that, not all Don’t Knows are pro EU.
Btw and possibly a little ironically, is there any EU regulation concerning the support of political movements, by publicly funded state broadcasters? Does this comply with EU regulations? If the EU is concerned with democracy and the rule of law, might they not be interested in a network that includes HMG, Better Together, the CBI, the Bank of England(?), the BBC, Acanchi, Vote No Borders, the Core Solutions Group and sundry MSM publications?
I really don’t get the jam tomorrow bullshit. We fell for that back in 79 with Douglas-Home. Why the hell would we fall for it again?
They have had two years. If they can’t reach a fecking consensus by now and put something on the table they aren’t going to do so after a No vote. In fact the moment there is a nO vote the constituent parts of Better Together will fall on each other’s necks.
If anyone missed the best comedy show on T.V. tonight, so far, then you can watch it here. 😛
link to tinyurl.com
It’s called Interdependence, the true benefit of independence, we have a voice unlike the current union where our position is subservient to other areas who supposedly speak for us all. Fundamentally why WM Gov don’t want us to go!
UK government’s expenditure on secret £46,000 poll exposed by Bloomberg
link to newsnetscotland.com
Just caught S Magnussons interview with Cameron and have to that bar a couple of missed opportunities, it was fairly decent and Cameron came across as shifty, and unconvincing regards extra powers.
Brilliant
Lesley-Anne
I’ve always wondered what paratroopers carried inside the bags on their backs. It all makes sense now.
How annoying is it to hear a Conservative PM, with one MP elected in Scotland, repeat ad nauseam that Scotland gets the “best of both worlds”. He must be referring to some kind of nightmare world.
Now that is what we call subverting the form. A brilliant article that neatly dissects the whole argument for Union.
Today we saw Osborne once more dig for britain, cementing the image of Scots as mendicants. An English newspaper waffles on about how terrorists will invade England from Scotland. David Cameron thinks invoking the Ghost of John Smith, will shame us into voting no.
Now if they had the imagination of this articles author, they would be selling the union, by saying they want to be a bit more like us. But no, they’d rather get their ideas from the Tories “Big book of Wrong” – the Anti-Scottish edition.
I think I might have left an important player off my list, the Electoral Commission?
Best Livestream by Thistle,from Pollok YES meeting, well done you & crew.fantastic turnout 500 & over 360 on livestream. all the speakers on form & rebbuting project fear at every angle.
interesting stuff from academicsforyes.org
Murray McCallum says:
Lesley-Anne
I’ve always wondered what paratroopers carried inside the bags on their backs. It all makes sense now.
Funny how no one has ever thought before to ask a a paratrooper what he carried on his back, strange that. DOH!, and HE is our P.M. gad help us!
I just love Taylor’s commentary, “here picking up tips from paratroopers.” Yeah tips like if you jump out of an aircraft without a back pack you are most definitely … 😛
CameronB the EU is a dictatorship remember that bad man that got run out of Scotland,you know the English one thats always SCREAMING about the EU dictatorship and the way it overrides member states laws,spends monies like they are going to die tommorow,is that the EU everybody wants to join? cause cmon that old you have to be in it to change it bullshit is getting old.
its time for change not just in Scotland a World change cause all this madness has to stop,time for nato to pull back from Russia and China,time for the cia saudi regeme to stop the global terrorism.
Excellent article.
@Adam.
I hope this helps a bit.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Sorry I’m O/T but just got this tweet back from Scotland Tonght concerning a certain Mr Cameron and a certain opinion poll. 😉
@0604Arb1320 @DouglasDaniel @cabinetofficeuk You can see what he had to say on the poll in less than an hour.
@ScotlandTonight @RealMacKaySTV Why don’t they #PublishThePoll? Will you ask him that? – 15 May
John MacKay @RealMacKaySTV
Follow Follow
@X_Sticks_Real @ScotlandTonight I have.
link to news.stv.tv
@Adam says:
O/T so big apologies and first post for a long time lurker.
Try Business for Scotland.
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
Really good broadcast by Live Independence with Jim Sillars, Tommy Sheridan and David Hayman – watch again here:
link to new.livestream.com
Excellent job as usual Thistle 😀
Hi Adam – good to have you with us. cynicalHighlander has hopefully answered your query.
Don’t be a lurker, come and join in. Every voice (or post) does count. It doesn’t hurt a bit. (but read the Rev’s rules or he can get nippy!)
@alexicon thanks! I’ve also got the early 1900s table Rev refers to in his article on the historical debt. I’m sure someone posted a breakdown of taxes v expenditure from the 80s onwards on a guardian thread I read last year but I can’t find it now.
Lesley-Anne
O/T question, Is there any events planned for Annan this Saturday???
And, has the local YES group got anything planned in Annan on Saturday.
Was thinking of paying Annan a visit on Saturday. First time since the Lockerbie disaster.
Cameron’s trip hasn’t gone well for a London Evening Standard reader
1 CommentRSS|Subscribe
AngryfromLondon33 minutes ago
What a vile and disgusting disgrace is Cameron. What right does he think he has to prostitute the rest of the UK, specifically England, and use our money to bribe the Scots? Either they want to be part of the UK, the operative word there is PART of the UK not a privileged and subsidised outpost that remains just because the rest of us pay them.
Cameron, you should be ashamed of yourself, the good news that even Tory voters such as myself will never vote for you so you will be thrown out on your ear very shortly.
Reply 0
link to standard.co.uk
Superb, as usual….
another small contribution from me….
http://www.eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com
Angry from London is not happy is he?
If it is any consolation, we don’t like him either.
@cynicalHighlander thanks very much! I’m sure what I’m after is there.
Viva la revolucion!
Thistle
Livestream compulsive viewing, once you start watching the debate, you’re hooked. Tommy on top form.
Brilliant turnout again and very well organised.
Did they do a before and after poll??
That School is just across the road from Tommy’s house.
Radoi 5 Live
Independence discussion …Editor Sunday Herald just coming on. Missed the start.
Fairlie from theearth is. Not only a troll but a bam pot troll. He loves ropes so sling yer ‘ook!
Just watched another bias news national BBC Alan Little load of crap puff job on Cameron in the army, lots of new happy smiley bettertogether people lined up in front of all new project fear billboards then horrible shots of YES ones and a very lonely Alex Salmond.
BBC you are bias beyond words.
Sorry O/T
Petitioning David Cameron PM
0n 21/1/2014 a IPSOS MORI Poll was commisioned to research attitudes in Scotland towards Scottish Independence. The Results of this Poll should be published and put into the public domain.
Petition by
Ed Smith
Glasgow, United Kingdom
link to tinyurl.com
Sort of not O/T – I hand out Wings cards, I spread the word – but still folk a bit put off by the logo, could we have a fluffy wild cat kitten instead?
Tommy is good but with one flaw in his constant ‘Comrades & Brothers/Sisters’ as not everyone was brought up under the Labour rhetoric of the past and it will turn some people off as this is not a class struggle but a democratic one encompassing all views of society.
fairiefromtheearth
Here is the London School of Economics on the subject of dynamic differences and “Permanent Friends?”. My longer post didn’t go through. 😉
link to lse.ac.uk
@Adam
John Jappy on Dingwall SNP website is, I think what you’re after.
@Paula Rose
I have a couple of Wings car stickers proudly displayed on my wagon.
My neighbour asked me if I was now working for Armani… You just cannae win.
@tartanpigsy 7 adam
John Jappy has his own website too, but not sure it has info back to 50s.
link to blogger.com
Wow, did I just see the usually tame John Mackay reduce David Cameron to a confused, babbling mess on Scotland Tonight, did Cameron actually say that Scots “helped us defeat Hitler” as one of the reasons to hold onto us?
What a contrast when John swinney came on and gave very straight answers to straight questions.
I thought MacKay was a bit awestruck and deferential. Didn’t go for the jugular.
@ endomacaroonbar – I know love, but a fluffy kitten would be so good, on a serious note, a lot of folk are put off by it, I’m not but many are.
Maybe a dog collar on the eagle would solve the problem, and the wings being a wee bit fluffier.
wings logo breathing fire would be cool.
At least Cameron confirmed the existence of the poll.
It will be interesting to see how the FoI requests are dealt with.
Tee hee. Keep it down please, bombardier. 🙂
“We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are perpetual and eternal and those interests it is our duty to follow.”
Lord Palmerston, British Foreign Secretary, 1848
link to news.bbc.co.uk
BBC Newsnight dragging up 2012 story to discredit the SNP health Minister
‘wings logo breathing fire would be cool’ fabby!!
Findlay Farquaharson
Animated for the web? 🙂
Tell your buds that the logo is a Pony 🙂
“Animated for the web?”
yeah, and would make an awesome tattoo.
A pony – even better, my little pony.
Watched 10 seconds of Newsnight Scotland and Gordon Brewer.
They carried on with the filth that Lamont started at FMQs.
“Alex Neil done a bad thing, so he must resign immediately”.
Utter crap.
Switched off in disgust.
Hamish Scott – doll, I think you’ve nailed it, sorry if we’re being a bit flippant down here.
link to youtube.com 🙂
This article just appeared on the newspaper review on Newsnight Scotland….brilliant.
Gordo Brewer gave Wings a shout out tonite !
This article just appeared on the newspaper review on Newsnight Scotland….Brilliant!!
Wings coverage to be welcomed but Gordon Brewer blotted his copy book by sneering at Carol Fox when she said the UK Government should publish their £46,000 poll.
Brewer as a political journalist should know that the Scottish Government does publish its polls on specific policy matters but has not commissioned any polls on Independence.
slightly o/t. paddy ashdown is an overated twat.
Disgraceful piece at the start of Newsnight Scotland regurgitating the crap about Alex Neil. Its clear there is an all out coordinated attack by Labour/BBC on the SNP, looking and pushing no matter what for a resignation.
Next item featured a former Tory advisor and Carol Fox of Women for Independence talking about Cameron’s visit
Became heated when Brewer tried to talk down Carol Fox, when she raised the story about Westminster not publishing the poll showing Yes surging and spending £ 45,000 of taxpayers money.
Brewer got clearly irritated and lost his cool, when Carol Fox brought it up again, refusing to be fobbed off. Brewer proceeded to attack by insisting that the Scottish Government have covered up some tax payer funded private polling (as far as I’m aware they have not)
Worth watching if you get the chance (skipping past the start)
Findlay Farquaharson says:
“wings logo breathing fire would be cool.”
Chic McGregor has a really good animation of it maybe he could add fire 😀
link to i51.photobucket.com
Johann Lamont, British Labour’s Scottish representative shouts wolf every week.
It gets tiresome.
Even the unwary punter must have noticed by now.
Every week in Johann Lamont’s British Labours world, everything is a crisis and everything is a calamity!
It was the previous British Labour who makes chaos!
Everything British Labour touched turned to disaster!
Totally incompetent and a danger to democracy.
Britsh Labour are a cheery lot, not!
@ CameronB – flippant darling very flippant, definitely flippant. Flippant without a doubt.
If you go onto Youtube and look up Kendo Macaroonbar, there you’ll find a wings animated logo ( I am trying to get ceramic badges made…watch this space )
I can’t get the system to display it here for some reason 🙁
Newsnight Scotland Brewer made a complete and utter ar*e of himself tonight by,
1. Mocking Carol Fox, very cheap, nasty and unprofessional. EBC management must say something about this disgraceful episode!
2. By accusing the Scottish government of spending public money on secret referendum polls, which they do not do!
Well EBC PQ over to you.
Sarah Smith on with Brillo tonight, will be interesting to see her in action.
Wonder if she’ll be impartial?
@X_Sticks
I doubt it.
Fantastic – Wings looks even better on my telly!
Well done Stuart – a great week of expose and formidable journalism. And thanks Hamish for a very eloquent and insightful piece.
I know there are plenty of thosr in the Yes camp and on this site who would rather we were out of Europe, and I respect that. As CameronB says, it is a decision for down the line. If Scotland votes for a party with a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on Europe that is when we should decide. That way it is our decision.
I see myself as a European and would probably vote to stay in. Honestly, with the resources, the talent and determination of our population and the unity of purpose that indy will focus I could see us with a prosperous and more equal society in or out of the EU.
Oh my god the shirts! enough dears I’m awa – this week? two decades ago!!
no five
The main problem with the ‘Best of both Worlds’ argument of unionists is that the rUK is NOT the World.
AHH,the newspaper reviews,the gifts that keeps on giving. Can’t believe we might vote yes? We will,and naw,it won’t be a disaster for us.
Watching press preview on Sky News and it was quite noticeable how The Sun’s UK editor Stig Abell, gave a glowing account of Alex Salmond.
Do you think their Scottish cousins have told them they are getting ready to back the YES campaign?
Back on repeat at 12.30 am
This is a brilliant article, Hamish, totally exposing the contradictions of the unionist argument. I was thinking along these lines the other day, so I’m actually quite annoyed I didn’t write this!
Any argument that can be made for why the union might have been positive for Scotland in the past – free trade with a larger market, breaking of national barriers, strength in numbers, financial safety net, national security, whatever – are all completely superseded by the existence of the EU, and the difference with the EU is the members retain national sovereignty.
Quite simply, the EU renders the UK useless. Only now, the continued existence of the UK threatens our membership of this club.
Paula Rose says:
“Oh my god the shirts!”
Not a patch on your blouse, dear! (see what I did there?) 😉
Although an excellent article, there is one key weakness to its line of argument; it is unlikely that the EU would allow Scotland to inherit its membership with the same criteria and generous rebates as the UK has. Likely Scotland would end up paying more per capita for EU membership than it currently does.
(Please note that I am not arguing that the EU would keep Scotland out; indeed it would be an embarrassment for the institution if Scotland remained out. But there is no guarantee that Scotland would enter on the same terms as the UK did originally.)
Of course, the converse argument, that Scotland is better served by remaining in the UK to benefit from the UK’s position in the EU is far more critically undermined by the current rise of UKIP and those who’d wish to see a “Brexit” down here in England.
It is a sad fact for people like me (who are instinctively pro-Union, be it UK or EU) that the best argument for Scottish independence is the histrionic and schizophrenic state of English & Westminster politics.
“Although an excellent article, there is one key weakness to its line of argument; it is unlikely that the EU would allow Scotland to inherit its membership with the same criteria and generous rebates as the UK has.”
The rebate is a UK asset, which therefore belongs partly to Scotland. It would be considered like any other asset during negotiations with the rUK. (I believe it expires soon anyway.)
Farage was guesting on Andrew Neils TV prog tonight.
Farage stated that he was absolutely certain UKIP would win a Scottish EU seat, possibly two…when the TV went blank and an ‘apology’ sign was flashed up for a few minutes. When the link was connected again the Farage interview was already finished.
Nice of Sarah Smith, “up here in Scotland,” to tell me about the local elections “we’re” having.
Also, poor Humza. If they’re going to have independence questions, it is just absurd to put him out there against four braying unionists and pretend to still have any semblance of balance in this debate. You could see him making screeds of notes and I’m sure we all know what he was going to say, but lots of people won’t have known because those views are not heard on shows like QT!
Oh, and if I have to hear one more person in England wail about not getting a say and not having their voices heard when the Guardian and the Torygraph carry a column like that every other week, then on September 19th I WILL go to the border with a hacksaw and cut the bastards loose. “You know, we hear so much from the victims. I really think we need to hear the voices of the thieves and thugs.”
@kendomacaroonbar It was only on BBC Scotland that the signal was lost. Strange, not 🙁
Can’t we change the logo to a nice cuddly Bunny Rabbit and a logo which say’s
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then You laugh at them, then they come to fight you, use the National Broadcaster and the Electoral Commission against you and then they cheat, lie and win.”
Mik Hangd
?
@X-sticks –
Poll petition signed. Almost at 250.
@Ian Brotherhood
What poll petition?
@Nana Smith –
Here, via X-sticks, above:
link to tinyurl.com
Petition signed and passed on & on….
“Although an excellent article, there is one key weakness to its line of argument; it is unlikely that the EU would allow Scotland to inherit its membership with the same criteria and generous rebates as the UK has.”
What generous rebates? Most EU member states have a number of concessions in different areas.
As a result of the importance of London business, the rest of the British Isles has suffered. In Scotland and other areas where fishing was important. Westminster gave concessions away which has deeply harmed the industry.
Our coastline, towns and cities were not given access to the huge regeneration cash that benefited much of the rest of the EU member states.
Recently Scottish farmers were denied money destined to then from the EU – Westminster again decided that this money should not all go to where it was supposed to.
link to bbc.co.uk
Then there was the recent case of the UK Government ignoring Scotland’s clearly stated and understood position on GM crops:
link to sustainablepulse.com
Its time to stop others blocking our progress both at home and around the globe. Scotland people need to be represented by people that are prepared to do what they are employed to do by us.
Wow thanks
“Andrew Morton says:
15 May, 2014 at 5:56 pm
Your spelling error hit me like a knife between the shoulder-blades.”
I would probably never have read this brilliant article wit such care and understanding if I was not looking for the “spelling error
Vote Yes