stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


The Too Wee Club Redux

Posted on May 30, 2018 by

Returning to a theme.

(Original series here.)

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    1. 30 05 18 10:56

      The Too Wee Club Redux | speymouth

    156 to “The Too Wee Club Redux”

    1. Merkin Scot says:

      We got beaten by Peru again. I blame Sturgeon and Salmond for giving us false hopes. We are clearly too small to do anything in this world.

    2. Archbishop of Dork says:

      In the Faroes they are their own masters. Scotland has pharaohs for masters.

    3. bobajock says:

      Natch, its not that Scotland is too wee, its just that we’re too … well, something impossible to define – cuckolded?

    4. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Nothing whatsoever in Davidson Glasgow Uni speech about the Westminster plan to obtain devo powers. Not even briefly mentioned.

      For the Tories the undermining of the Scottish Parliament is too trivial to talk about.

      While Davidson poses as being to the left of her London bosses. Which she certainly isn’t.

    5. Breeks says:


      bobajock says:
      30 May, 2018 at 10:00 am
      Natch, its not that Scotland is too wee, its just that we’re too … well, something impossible to define – cuckolded?

      Is a horse cuckolded?

      We are broken in, like a wild mustang made safe to ride. It isn’t easy to rediscover our free running wildness and untamed confidence, but hurdling the big fence and securing our freedom is the first step in the process.

      Some of us more than others need reassurance that it’s ok to rebel against our conditioning.

    6. Muscleguy says:

      Set aside for fish farming, what a wonderful and sensible idea. We could do that, IF we have the necessary powers. Let the sea recover, move somewhere else.

      Back in NZ the mussel farmers in the Marlborough sounds are all observing a no harvest rule because there was a toxic algal bloom, the mussels apparently loved it and are nice and fat but the companies will not harvest until testing shows paralytic shellfish toxin levels back down to safety again.

      Good job I have frozen NZ greenshell mussels in the freezer. In size terms they are Great Danes vs Chihuahuas. Coming back from NZ I couldn’t believe how tiny the mussels are here.

    7. Jim says:

      No vote for the act of Union; in fact there was rioting in the streets against it’s conception.

      Supporters of said Union think it’s existence is set in stone and should never be challenged no matter how circumstances can change and make it detrimental for Scotland to remain.

      Scotland it seems has never been a partner in a Union; rather a colony, taken by subterfuge, violence and against the true wishes of it’s people at that time.

      The EU was not set in stone either and the English,Welsh and Northern Irish have chosen the path of leaving that particular Union, which is their people’s choice to make.

      Scotland chose a different path yet is to be dragged out of the EU against the wishes of it’s people, proof if ever was needed that Scotland does not exist as an equal member country of a Union but one that they think has been assimilated as part of their Country, England.

      We need Independence as soon as possible because time is running out as they, Westminster, will grind away at our parliament’s powers, maybe even the parliament itself until we truely lose our identity as a separate nation and we will.

    8. jfngw says:

      When the Indyref2 Vow2 is launched will they require Nicola Sturgeon to sign it as the third largest Westminster party ahead of the LibDems.

      They may just go for ‘Too Wee, Too Poor, know your place’, at least that would be an honest statement of their opinions.

      I actually expect them to have Ruth Davidson sign it as the third person, the MSM hero.

      Before anybody tells me the signatures along with the Vow were fake, I know this.

    9. Breeks says:

      Not going off topic, but those tunnels linking the Faroe Islands reminded me of Channel 4’s Building Giants on a night or two ago… 19 miles of tunnelling for a new Underground beneath Copenhagen. Cost was 2.5 billion Euros if I remember correctly, but that sounds like decent value I thought…

      http://www.channel4.com/programmes/building-giants/episode-guide/

      What struck me was the technology however… Pretty awesome. Maybe we don’t need a bridge to Ireland but a tunnel.

      It kinda reminded me about a programme I saw years ago about Scotland’s Hydro Electric infrastructure and the Aluminium smelter at Kinlochleven. I can’t remember the details all these years later, but there were World Records all over the place for the time…

      Independence will give us more Renewable Energy projects, and infrastructure like Queensferry Crossing, and access to European support and development funding. Unionism gave us an Edinburgh Trams Fiasco, a Scottish Parliament fiasco, PFI, and more of the psychotic guilt-free plundering of our native resources which gets sold to us as “sharing”.

    10. Abulhaq says:

      Anti Brexit Brits are inclined to refer to the UKGBNI ie British state as ‘a nation’ as in the case of ‘lord’ Malloch-Brown on BBC Today show.
      Malloch-Brown is a buddy of the financier cum ‘philanthropist’ cum general meddler in things he personally does not care for. He doesn’t care for ‘nationalism’ in any form.
      He should tell Mr Malloch-Brown.
      Scotland isn’t ‘too wee’, it’s just the minds of some of its citizens that qualify.

    11. Kat hamilton says:

      Self belief is something other nations have in abundance…..they are outward, vibrant and proud of their own achievements…the youth thank god aren’t brainwashed with subservience and psychological mind rot we’ve been fed for generations…Indy 2 is literally do or die, as JRM as pm, trumps trade deals and in effect reducing holyrood to a parish council is the reality…britains got talent last night gave us an insight into our southern neighbours retro mindset…Vera Lynn lookalike, complete with bunting and regalia fighting todays Johnny Foreigner, the European Union..lets get the hell out Scotland…

    12. HandandShrimp says:

      We are big enough, rich enough and smart enough to join the family of countries in this world and we should be doing it for ourselves.

      Ruth’s sudden play for soft Brexit is interesting. May won’t listen to her regarding Scotland, a place I am sure barely figures in her thinking, so I wonder if this is Ruthie making a play for the hearts and minds of Middle England? Is this her counter to the Moog’s play for the top job and a hard Brexit?

      Of course, it may just be an attempt to sound more reasonable in Scotland given the polls indicate we are getting more and more anti-Brexit. There are no immediate elections but perhaps it is a case of getting her excuses in early for the crap coming our way as Brexit kicks in. “It wissnae me, I was pure against it so I was”.

    13. Dr Jim says:

      When I was at school the war cry was always when you grow up you can go to England and get a good job

      I used to say my mother is English so I go to England every couple of months and I don’t like it there, I like it fine here in Scotland, and as I got older I knew I didn’t want to go to England to be an apprentice Englishman for the rest of my life, I was a time served Scotsman and that’s still more than good enough for me now

      You can’t make a Scots terrier into a Labrador they’re different dogs, just like people, just because we’re the same colour won’t make us English and it’s high time they stopped trying to impose it on us

      A whole pile of countries have told them the same thing and chucked them out for it

      Our turn!

    14. scottieDog says:

      Folks I know I’m like a stuck record but listen to this. 10 mins of prof steve keen talking about why Italy looks to be exiting the euro and rebooting it’s own currency..
      https://www.patreon.com/posts/ecb-fiddles-rome-19122353

    15. PhilM says:

      I wonder what it must be like to be a Tory, whether blue, yellow or red and to spend 30 minutes watching these inspiring, rejuvenating, thoughtful yet realistic island people…but to watch with a sneer, with ready-to-hand objections, with a pre-prepared list of insults, with their ‘proud Scot but’ t-shirts thinly stretched over their gammon-fed guts.
      After seeing this brilliant short film, surely not even the likes of Daisley’s bloated paranoia should be able to hide what must be increasingly obvious to any Scot…that is unless yir dinner now depends on busting rhymes for yir colonial masters.
      Bearing in mind his shiteyarese moniker, maybe we could crowdfund another safari fir Oor Darren to go to Thor’s Harbour and see what’s on offer in an independent country…looks pretty good to me…these people are confident and capable…d’you think they would take any shit from the Danes if they threatened to bypass their Løgting for seven years?
      No way! (type that into Faroe Islands Translate and you get a sassy young Faroese snapping their fingers at you!)

    16. McBoxheid says:

      One thing that struck me that was said in this film and I think its the key to independence: “Scottish people have the right to think for themselves”.

      Our greatest problem and hurdle to independence is people aren’t thinking for themselves. The reason being is that we don’t have an open media, both tv and press are continuously forcing their opinions on us from just one perspective, the British Nationalist agenda.

      With the internet, that is changing. The Faroese claim they have the best broadband coverage worldwide. The people in Faroes do have an astonishingly good coverage at every point of their nation, including at sea. It means that they are well connected.

      Thanks to Scottish government and community initiatives, broadband in Scotland is getting better. This means that people have instant information at their fingertips. They can check on what their politicians are asking them to believe and can make their own minds up.

      3 newspapers and 6? TV stations (only one run by THEIR government) means that people get their news from different sources. In Scotland, all the newspapers (except one, The National)and all of the TV are currently controlled by British Nationalist or state run organisations and none of them give neutral unbiased news from which people could form their own opinions.

      The internet is changinging that rapidly, but still too many are being drip fed opinions instead of news and therefore aren’t at a position to form their own opinion as they don’t get a balanced view that they can use to form one. OK, many are to busy or too lazy, too technologically unaware or whatever to go looking for unbiased news.

      One thing that must happen when independence is a reality is making broadcasting/press unable to print propaganda without redress. New Scottish laws controlling media must prevent this happening in iScotland or else we will remain in the current situation where bias and big money control our news where the majority are being controlled by the elite to accept their opinions of how things are.

    17. Colin Alexander says:

      “Government:
      The Faroe Islands are an autonomous, self-governing nation under the external sovereignty of the Kingdom of Denmark. Its political system is a variation of the Scandinavian type of parliamentarian democracy, with its own democratically elected legislative assembly, the Løgting, and an executive government headed by the løgmaður (Prime Minister). The Faroese court system is under the jurisdiction of the High courts in Denmark. The Løgting, one of the oldest parliaments in the world, consists of 33 elected members serving for a period of four years by popular vote as a single constituency. Additionally, every four years two Faroese representatives are elected to the Danish Parliament in Copenhagen.

      The Faroes Islands have an exclusive right to legislate and govern independently in a wide range of areas, including the conservation and management of living marine resources within the 200-mile fisheries zone, protection of the environment, sub-surface resources, trade, fiscal and industrial relations, energy, transport, communications, social security, culture, and education and research.

      A treaty with Denmark, enacted in legislation, gives the Faroese government autonomy in most foreign relations. Although Denmark is a member state of the European Union, the Faroes have chosen to remain outside of the Union. Accordingly, the Faroe Islands negotiate their own trade and fisheries agreements with the EU and other countries and unions. The Faroe Islands also participate actively in a range of international fisheries management treaties and organisations”.

      Source: http://denmark.dk/en/society/greenland-the-faroes-and-the-german-minority/the-faroes/

      The Faroe Island are NOT independent. This what Devo-Max is supposed to look like.

    18. Colin Alexander says:

      CURRENCY
      There are two currencies of equal value in the Faroe Islands: the Faroese króna and the Danish krone. While the Faroese government prints its own bank notes, only Danish coins are used. Danish notes are equally acceptable as Faroese notes throughout the country.

      The series of banknotes comprise five denominations: 50 kroner, 100 kroner, 200 kroner, 500 kroner and 1000 kroner. The coin (only Danish) series comprises six denominations: 50 øre (cents), and 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 kroner.

      There may be a few places in the major towns that accept foreign currency, but this is more likely the exception than the rule, and, unsurprisingly, the exchange rate is rarely favourable. Exchange rates for the Faroese (Danish) króna as of May 2016 are roughly: DKK 100 = €13.4 / £10.6 / $15.6.

      Source :

      https://visitfaroeislands.com/plan-your-stay/before-you-arrive-in-the-faroe-islands/money/

    19. Alastair says:

      Truly inspirational stuff from Lesley and the legends at Phantom Power. I was incredibly upset with myself for knowing absolutely nothing about the Faroes beyond the few seconds devoted to the annual whale cull, it seems that’s all our Media want us to know. All that achievement with a population of only 50,000! where’s yer too wee now?

    20. Brian says:

      That was a fantastic video. It’s a pity so many will not watch it.
      It’s infuriating to think there are still people who can’t grasp what we have and what we could improve on and exploit to Scotland’s own benefit and be looked on as a world leader in Sustainable energy.

      I’d probably make sure the Greens were in charge of a good portion of that in any future Scottish Government.

    21. Brian says:

      Muscleguy…How good is the food in NZ? I loved it. That country has the best pies. All different. From Ham and egg through to Thai green curry. The beers were top notch and the choices of fish in the chippies were superb.

    22. Artyhetty says:

      Excellent.

      Scotland has had the confidence beaten out of it, and the people have been brainwashed into actually believing that they and their own country is sh**e. It’s why the UKGov will not devolve broadcasting, or immigration, or tax etc etc.

      Scotland is more than capable of thriving as an independent country right now and in the future. The only way to do that is through independence, devolution is just flogging a dead horse. The people, like Gordon Brown and his ridiculous ‘devo max’ who sold Scotland out in 2014, should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

      We were watching some children’s BBC Alba last night for old times sake, and saw that BBC Alba was scrapped in February of this year. People, you are paying to be brainwashed by the UK state, via the Britnat TV.

      The new people moving to Scotland need to know what the Scottish parliament is not allowed to do, because they have no idea about devolution light. The Scotgov surely waves a magic wand, because it sure as hell is constrained hugely by London Westminster government, in what they are allowed, yes, allowed to do, and how they can take Scotland into the 21st century.

      It’s tragic and will be even more so with Brexit looming.

      Run for your life Scotland!

    23. I see the media are again running down the S.N.H.S about waiting times and targets not being met why does the SNP not do away with these targets and just state we will do the best we can with the money we get from Westminster as our hands are tied by them insofar as to how much we can do and the parties that are running us down are the ones that control our ability to make things better

    24. Craig P says:

      I love the Faroes. Very interesting place to visit politically and culturally and some absolutely end of the world scenery. And after you’ve driven through those tunnels and come back to Scotland our infrastructure seems so lame in comparison.

      Where’s the tunnel to Bute? To Mull? Between Shetland, Yell and Unst? Where’s the interconnector to Orkney, where’s the Kirkcaldy-Leith interconnector, why isn’t there a roundabout under the Clyde connecting Gourock, Kilcreggan and Dunoon?

    25. Richard Hunter says:

      Always thought it was a bad idea to play Costa Rica and Peru within a few weeks of each other. Who next: Zaire?

    26. Albert Herring says:

      Per head, Scotland is probably the wealthiest country in the world (apart perhaps from a few tiny tax havens).

      Unfortunately its wealth is being systematically stolen by its greedy neighbour to the south.

      Can we not put these facts on billboards or something?

    27. cirsium says:

      thanks for posting this excellent film, Rev.
      Interesting and inspirational. What a brilliant idea to promote salmon farming and clean seas. If Scotland adopted this, it would also help our wild salmon rod fishing industry.

      @scottiedog, 11.58am
      keep banging that drum. If we are to be independent, we need our own currency. How we transfer from sterling is detailed in how to start a new country: a practical guide for Scotland. The implementation starts from day 1 of independence.

    28. Artyhetty says:

      re: kat Hamilton@10am

      Good comment and it’s not just other nations that have self belief. I don’t recall hearing people in N.E. England ever really slag off their own area, or people or anything like that. Always a sense of pride, whether warranted or not.

      Scotland was brainwashed, portrayed as useless and dysfunctional to the outside world by the Britnats and the various UKgov’s and that’s why they absolutely cannot abide Nicola Sturgeon travelling abroad to talk to other countries.

      The Britnats really are peeved that Scotland is viewed positively on the international stage!

      Well tough, the Britnats kept Scotland poor and begging for far too long, and is still siphoning away her revenues and abundant resources. That is not sustainable.

      Independence is the only way to repair the damage because unlike the Faroes, devolution is minimal in Scotland, most powers are reserved to London, and the Westminster government, not to mention the power grab.

    29. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Craig P@1.05pm

      Craig Scotland is even lucky to have roads, and bridges! Seriously, the only reason roads were built was to take Scotland’s resources away to other parts of the UK and further afield.

      Have a watch of some of the films on the National Library of Scotland’s image archive, and you will see historical, factual evidence of just how huge and abundant Scotland’s industries were. You can do a search by year, genre or subject. It’s fascinating, but also tragic that Scotland hardly really benefitted and was made to feel grateful for a few crumbs thrown back from Wesminster.

      Westminster, keeping Scotland poor, disgraceful.

    30. ebreah says:

      “The strength of any country is its people, obviously”: the best quote in the film.

    31. Albantawe says:

      Excellent video and the conclusion is spot on – power and confidence go together. Scotland is in a Catch 22 situation. Without political power self confidence is low and without self confidence our people are unwilling to take political power in their own hands.

    32. Colin Alexander says:

      The Faroes voted for independence – but got home rule.

      From the economist: ” The Danish government rejected the referendum and dissolved the islands’ parliament”.

    33. K1 says:

      Our minds have been colonised over the last three centuries…Stockholm syndrome in essence.

      Now all they have left to influence are the thick, the ignorant and the absolute shysters who are doing the influencing of the thick and the ignorant (like a circle of jerks performance). Think I’ve just described the Tories and their ilk in Scotland right there.

      🙂

      Soon Scotland…soon.

    34. Scott says:

      Just heard the Ruth Davidson show on Politics Scotland

    35. mike cassidy says:

      Re currency

      I’ve drawn attention to this before.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_koruna

      “At midnight on 31 December 1992, the Czechoslovak Republic bifurcated into the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic.

      In 1993, the newly independent Slovakia introduced its own koruna, replacing the Czechoslovak koruna at par.

      Provisional banknotes were issued in denominations of 20, 50, 100, 500, and 1,000 korún by affixing stamps bearing the coat of arms of Slovakia and the denomination to Czechoslovak banknotes.”

      Imagine.

      Right, that’s us off, England.

      We’re going with our own pound.

      Starting at the same value as your pound.

      Any English notes we have will get a Scottish stamp put on them to show they are now valid Scottish notes.

      Maybe in a decade or so we’ll change to the Euro if that’s what people want.

      Oh, and don’t forget to come and pick up your tridents.

      Cheers!

    36. Ottomanboi says:

      The Danish embassy in London has a Faroe islands ‘legation’ which issues visas.
      Faroe islands has bilateral agreements regarding fishing with the likes of Russia.
      We have to remember we are a ‘united kingdom’ not a representative democracy.

    37. Bobp says:

      Blair Paterson 1.02pm. I agree with you on this.The Scottish government should stop trying to meet “targets ” ,and just say,we don’t control our own finances so we’ll do the best we can with the money allocated to us from London. Any complaints ,take it up with westminster.

    38. Dr Jim says:

      Nicola Sturgeon being trolled by every mental in Yoonworld today
      What’s a good laugh is they all claim to have read the Growth commission report then proceed to misquote it using all the same words as each other

      Badly spelled of course (It’s the knuckles)(difficulty with the knuckles) and the ink from the Loyal tattoos seeping into their blood streams causing that zombie infection which leads them to hate everybody especially (They Muslamics)

    39. ScottieDog says:

      Really interesting and enjoyable video.
      Random fact: The Faroes are underneath Scottish airspace whIch also forms part of the North Atlantic track system.

      They stressed resources in the video. We don’t do that enough. Imagine a country which can heat and power itself being somehow non-viable!

    40. yesindyref2 says:

      @scottieDog
      The euro was a good concept but poor implementation. What the EU needed was an umbrella currency, but for members to keep their sovereign currencies as well. There would have been no reason for the UK not to “join” in that case, as it would still have had the GBP. It would have avoided Greexe, Italy, Spain and Ireland’s problems, as they would have just been able to adapt the rate against the euro, issuing their own currency to do so. Ho hum.

      As for the GC report I think it’s truly wonderful while disagreeing with much of it. It’s got the Unionists in a tail-spin, they don’t know whether to praise or condemn it, while Sturgeon for the SNP just says “It’s recommendations, not policy”.

      It honestly could not have been done better.

    41. Capella says:

      Our media instill a lack of confidence. We have no home grown media other than very marginalised contributions by our bold independent providers such as Phantom Power, Independnece Live, etc. We still have The National, iScot and some blogs.

      But is is no substitute for a funded public broadcasting service such as every other country in the world, big or small, takes for granted.

      I listened to a Christine Grahame speech on our right to decide on independence and the sovereignty of the Scottish people. It’s a great speech, made a few years ago, but unheard by the vast majority of people.

      From a link Nana posted on the previous thread. 6 mins:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_l3B11Fos4&feature=youtu.be

      On a related theme – What to do when you learn that everything is a lie? 12 mins:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6eyBGtYrfE

    42. sassenach says:

      O?T
      My God, just had a look at the BBC HYS on article about Nicola and growth report – it’s a hatefest!!

      English hating the Scots will no doubt help our Indy cause – they want us away!

    43. Socrates MacSporran says:

      London Rules – Our way or the Highway.

      I recently looked at a full-match video of the 1967 England v Scotland game at Wembley. You remember, the one where we beat them and declared ourselves Unofficial World Champions.

      It was 3-2 going on 7-2, if we had taken all the chances we created, and pressed home when well on top, it would have been an embarrassing goals feast. However, Denis Law was out-voted by a Baxter-Bremner axis, who went for: “humiliate them 1-0.”

      The Englishedited “highlights” film, somehow fails to show Bsxter’s wee bit of ball-juggling, and the various other Scottish piss-takes – indeed, if the only evidence of the game you had to go on was that English edit – you would swear Scotland had been the luckiest team ever to win.

      It’s the same with say BBC films on the Faroe Islands, and the Economist’s take, mentioned in the btl comments above – London’s version is Gospel.

      Our biggest problem in Indyref2 will be nailing the lies, misinformation and spin of the London-based media. If we can counteract that – they have nothing else and we will win.

      We must challenge and defeat the hermaeutics of the London media Gospel.

    44. Vestas says:

      Just like the decades of “its all the EU/foreigners fault we’re so fucking useless” which the English have had rammed down their throats, they’ve had even longer of “whinging scotch subsidy junkies/alkies” in the papers.

      If the entire “free” press keeps saying the same things for decades then its hardly surprising when people believe it.

      The average Englishman thinks of a Scot much the same way a Texan thinks about Muslims – we’re “scum”.

      Time people got it into their heads – the English “hate” the Scots far more than vice versa because the English “hate” everyone who isn’t the same as them.

    45. Clapper57 says:

      O/T apologies

      Loki (scottishrap) on BBC QT in Perth tomorrow as is Brian Souter.

      Oh my….thank Christ Merryn somerset thingy ain’t on …cannot stand her sheeite biased SIU crap….hope no one calls off cause she’ll be like a dug on heat….right in there.

    46. galamcennalath says:

      Artyhetty says:

      The Britnats really are peeved that Scotland is viewed positively on the international stage!

      Definitely. And that has to be seen in the context that the UK is seen by most of the world as an unreformed imperialist. In fact, to many, it must seem a pariah.

      And add to that, the UK is currently looking like a complete basket case!

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      Onyways, seems like a good idea to post Sturgeon’s tweets altogether now:

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1001753693912555520

      1/ Reading lots of interesting comments about the #GrowthCommission – which is good. So much better to be discussing how to build a successful independent Scotland than just resigning ourselves to managing the decline of Brexit UK. A few points worth underlining though…

      2/ the report explicitly rejects austerity eg Part B p44 – “Scotland should explicitly reject the austerity model pursued by the U.K. in recent years” and recommends above inflation spending growth each year. A marked contrast to the failed Westminster approach.

      3/ report also stresses importance of investment to boost economy and that fiscal targets should not be at the expense of growth – another sharp contrast with Westminster. Indeed, it recommends fiscal stimulus both in the independence transition and in periods of low growth.

      4/ the report’s projections about deficit reduction are deliberately cautious. They make no assumptions about higher growth – and instead illustrate that even in worst case scenario independence is a better option that sticking with Westminster system that created the deficit….

      5/ …but with the powers of independence and by following report’s advice on how we can match the success of other small countries – particularly its recommendations on population – higher growth, more revenue and increased prosperity and fairness is the attainable prize.

      6/ so we have a choice – stay as we are, locked into the Brexit spiral and continued austerity that the Westminster parties offer no alternative to – or decide to equip ourselves with the powers to build our way to a better future.

      7/ lastly, policy choices in an independent Scotland will always be for the government of the day, so we should welcome debate – but without independence, these choices will always be far too limited. That’s the case we must win – and #GrowthCommission helps us do it.

    48. jfngw says:

      BBC strangely interested in Nicola Sturgeon tweets, of course this was just to allow the BritNat comment fest below the line. They think the SNP and independence is dead, good luck with that one.

      They were of course not interested in the Ruth Davidson tweet that was exposed as a lie. But of course she was on her way to the BBC in the encounter, was that to meet up with her old colleagues?

      I said, I think on Friday, that by the end of the following week the growth commission report would we claimed to be a failure by the MSM. They beat my estimate by two days.

    49. Robert Peffers says:

      @scottieDog says: 30 May, 2018 at 11:58 am:

      “Folks I know I’m like a stuck record”

      Aye! And the groove you seem stuck in is that the Bank Of England belongs to the country of England, (a.k.a The United Kingdom), and that the Bank of England is going to belong to the United Kingdom that will continue to exist after Scotland, (a.k.a. The Kingdom of Scotland), ends the United Kingdom.

      However the truth is that The United Kingdom is legally just what it claims to be, a two partner union of The Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England. It is nether a unified country nor is it, (as currently run), a set of three English dominion countries with the Country of England calling itself the United Kingdom and using EVEL to enforce English dominance.

      Furthermore attempting to compare other unlike setups to the false premise that the United Kingdom is really a country is not going to convince people to vote for independence. No matter how hard you try adding apples to oranges it will not result in a total of either apples or oranges but might be claimed to total to a fruit salad.

    50. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/actually-the-magic-money-tree-does-exist-according-to-modern-monetary-theory-a8021501.html

      Who cares about the history of the Country of the Bank of England, compared with the power of #MMT in an Independent Scotland with our own currency?

    51. yesindyref2 says:

      Actually, that is an excellent article in the Independent, a must read, for both left and right minded people. In my opinion, to be honest, there’s no such thing as left and right wing politics, or shouldn’t be. Ho hum.

    52. Dr Jim says:

      RBS will close it’s branches and Thersa May can’t interfere because it’s a commercial decision….Big fat lie!

      The *British taxpayer* owns over 70% of that bank and the government is supposed to serve the people who pay those taxes, that’s us

      Now the reason Theresa May *won’t* interfere is because the Tories instructed RBS to close its branches in Scotland first as usual (like the poll tax remember) in the hope of RBS stock rising before the sell off of the Bank which means money (much less than we paid) goes back in to the English treasury where it will be swallowed up never to be seen or heard from again

      So this is where the interesting bit comes in along with Theresa May’s big fat lie, You’ll all remember when the Brexit vote was won by the right wing lunatic English voters using the subterfuge of the *UK wide vote scam* which turned out to be a population head count and not as in the EU all nations votes are counted irrespective of population (that’s why we got the monkey England voted for)
      The first thing that happened was the car makers in England went apeshit and threatened to quit the sunny uplands of the English cricket pitches Theresa May jumped into her starship ran all around the England countryside assuring them of a special deal please don’t go I’ll fix it, she promised

      Now I don’t know much but I do know car makers are a commercial business, she intervened in that just fine and dandy did she not because guess what.. the car makers are located in England

      But when it comes to Scotland ….not so much eh

      Our great Scottish British Nationalist media won’t report the truths of these matters …..we have to before it’s too late

    53. ScottieDog says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Struggling to see where I ever said the U.K. was a country. You’re inventing arguments now.
      I was referring to the function of the Bank of England, but rant away if it makes you happy.

    54. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      “Revealed: industrial-scale beef farming comes to the UK”

      Where UK = England

      “the Guardian and the Bureau has identified nearly a dozen operating across England, including at sites in Kent, Northamptonshire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.”

      http://archive.is/M35hw

      Now why would Tories want to hold Agriculture Powers as part of the EU Withdraw Bill “Power Grab” again??

      Tory voting landowners making a profit in food short Brexit Britain.

    55. Smallaxe says:

      If you’re coming to Dumfries on Saturday don’t use this taxi service!

      https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=connect%20taxis%20-%20dumfries

      Yoon!

    56. Albert Herring says:

      @Smallaxe

      Thanks for the tip. I’ll phone them up to drive me to Dumfries from Glasgow. Oops, might forget to wait in!

    57. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref2
      Yes it was a good article. I see Italy are talking about raising their own IOUs called ‘mini bots’ in order to boost demand. They are totally hamstrung by the stability growth pact and can’t issue more euros. Yanis Varoufakis proposed a similar thing for Greece before he left. Be interesting to see how the Eurozone reacts to that.

    58. Smallaxe says:

      Albert Herring,

      That’s the way to do it!
      🙂

    59. Robert Peffers says:

      Until a majority of the people of Scotland realise the real truth of events in the history of Scotland long before the fake set-up that calls itself the United Kingdom, (but has never actually been run as a united kingdom), then statistically, your average Scottish person, does not knows how the Scottish people made the modern World we have today.

      Scotland led Europe out of, “The Dark Ages”, then began to lead the so called, “New World”, in the same direction. Only to be thwarted by first the Kingdom of England until Scotland was conned into first this hellish, so called, “United Kingdom”, and then the so called, “British Empire”. Note I call them, “So called”.

      The European Enlightenment:-

      In the, “Enlightenment”, European science, communications, philosophy, and politics were all radically changed during what is called the “long 18th century” (1685-1815). Some refer to it as, “The Age of Reason,”, or more frequently as just. “The Enlightenment.

      This, “Enlightenment”, that spread throughout all Britain, France and then throughout Europe, questioned the traditional authority and embraced the notion that humanity could be improved through rational change. “The Enlightenment”, produced numerous books, essays, inventions, scientific discoveries, laws, wars and revolutions and the Scots led the way.

      The American and French Revolutions were directly inspired by “The Enlightenment’s”, ideals and respectively reached the peak of its influence and then the beginning of its decline. The Enlightenment ultimately gave way to 19th-century Romanticism and our, “too wee, too poor and too bloody stupid to run itself”, Scotland led the way.

      The Chinese call it true and refer to Scotland as, “The Land of inventions”. Most of these changes stemmed from the Scottish culture of Education for all. Scotland, (arguably), brought in the World’s first, “Education Act”., or in Lowland Scots. The Scuilin Act of 1496:-


      1496, Scuilin Act

      It is staute and ordanit throw all the realme that al barronis and frehaldaris that ar of substance put thair eldest sonnis and airis to the sculis fra thai be aucht or nyne yeiris of age…

      And quhat baroune or frehalder of substance that haldis nocht his sone at the sculis as said is haifand na lauchfull essoyne bot failyeis heirin fra knawledge may be gottin thairof he sall pay to the king the soume of xx pounds. “

      When I was a laddie Scotland still led the World in many fields. Medicine, sciences, chemicals and believe it or not we invented just about everything that makes this modern World a modern World. Often just by events and accident but we discovered, and still discover, many of the things that made the modern World.

      About the enlightenment the great Voltaire said, ““We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation.”

      If nothing else it was a Scot who began telecommunications now indispensable throughout the World. As to , “The New World”, much of it was first explored and interacted with by the, “Bay Boys”, recruited by the Hudson Bay Company from Scotland. These were not colonists in the true sense of the word for they did not hunt down and kill or subjugate the native populations. They lived among them, converted many of them to Christianity and married native girls. The Hudson Bay Company were still recruiting Scots as late as 1980s.

      The English, on the other hand attempted, and almost did, to kill off the aboriginal(small, “a”), peoples of the various British Empire and in so doing in North America introduce the scalping of the natives to get trophies to hang on their belts and also invented Concentration camps or reservations. The Union has done few favours to Scotland but many favours to the rich elites of Scotland.

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s been talk for a few years about relaxing the SGP but no action. The 3% is nonsense, it restricts EU growth and lets in China – and the US. And as for the 60% the only countries that met it were the new states who practically by definition would have low levels of debt to GDP. Even Germany from memory was over the 60%, though not by much.

      In fact if Scotland had managed to get the share of debt as £50 billion according to then SNP calculations rather than the straight per capita share, we’d have been able to borrow extensively to meet the 60% limit (which is more strictly “warned” in the eurozone only anyway), which would mean we could have increased our debt by £40 billion, something not totally unnoticed by the likes of NIESR though they hurried over that part and didn’t go into detail.

      Carney doesn’t like the euro which flavours his comments about a formal currency union. Yet it survives to this day.

      I’d not want to join the eurozone until it sorts its stagnation fankle – and uses its issuance in a more sensible and sharing way. In fact I’d prefer the EFTA route, but hey, it and even neoliberalonics won’t stop me voting YES!

    61. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, that was @ScottieDog

    62. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers “Until a majority of the people of Scotland realise ..

      Sure, but if someone is talking about something else of interest, like currency and its issuance, “now is not the time” to criticise them because you don’t like the way you think they put some minor detail nothing to do with the actual subject itself, it interrupts debate about totally different matters.

      Like currency for an iScotland.

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @ebreah says: 30 May, 2018 at 1:36 pm:

      ““The strength of any country is its people, obviously”: the best quote in the film.”

      Aye! and statistically by far Scotland’s greatest export since the Treaty of Union has been the people of Scotland.

      To the extent there are areas of the World that are now more Scottish than Scotland – Nova Scotia for example – and many other areas of Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Yet Scots have been leaving Scotland since the Union and many have never again set foot in Scotland.

    64. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Robert Peffers “Yet Scots have been leaving Scotland since the Union and many have never again set foot in Scotland.

      Yes, but the counter to that is that Scots have left Scotland, gone to places and learnt loads of stuff, and with Independence may well come back and give us all the benefit of what they’ve learnt. New ideas, new methods, new ways of thinking. And with Independence Scotland might be able to actually use the high talent that up till now has HAD to go abroad to put it to good use. And create high level jobs, high wage jobs, rather than our average wage being lower than our neighbour’s average wage. HQ jobs as well, rather than a trip up the M6 by the “regional manager for Scotland”.

    65. jfngw says:

      We are not becoming independent, we are ending the Treaty of Union.

      Simple question, tick your preferred box:

      The people of Scotland to be governed exclusively by politicians elected by the people of Scotland.

      The people of Scotland to be governed by politicians elected from outwith Scotland.

    66. Hamish100 says:

      BBC Parliament allowing the PM of a mighty nation a whole programme to talk of Brexit -even mentioning about uk citizens applying for EU passports. Who is this mighty nation? Luxembourg. With a population smaller than Edinburgh. Yip too wee, too small….

    67. Robert Peffers says:

      Come on gays an gals, I had hoped to conduct a wee experiment here with Wingers.

      Reach into your purses, pockets or sporrans and look at the banknotes therein. See how many Bank of England vs Scots notes there are in circulation here in a good cross-section of Scottish pockets, purses and sporrans.

      It’s not definitive but quite a good indication of what would be the state of change if there was independence tomorrow.

      Yesterday I checked my hip pocket wad and got 14 out of 14 Scottish banknotes. I was out at a medical appointment today and then went to the shops. I am now going to re-check my cash to see if I have acquired any B of E notes.

      Strangely enough I now have 15 banknotes of various denominations and after, shopping at several different shops and using notes from my hip pocket, and placing the notes gained as change in my other hip pocket — of my 15 banknotes there was one solitary fiver from the bank of England.

      I may just be an exception but to me it looks like most notes circulating in Scotland just now are already distinctly Scottish currency.

    68. ScottieDog says:

      Yes they are branded Scottish notes Robert and created by Scottish banks but have to be backed by ‘non credit risk assets’. 60% of these are Bank of England notes and the rest typically U.K. government bonds.
      New bank notes are regulated by the law of seniorage where the proceeds of the purchase of the Bank note for it’s face value goes to the U.K. treasury. So the creation of 60% of Scottish and Irish notes creates that money for the treasury. This is a source of govt revenue which has declined over the years due to cash being issued.

      Iim sorry, I didn’t write the bank charter act. It’s no my fault.

    69. Gfaetheblock says:

      Robert Peffers

      Loads of info that you can read on the internet re Scottish notes

      https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/scottish-and-northern-ireland-banknotes

      Also, on a personal note, that is a large amount of cash to be walking about with, I would suggest using a debit card, for security reasons

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Depends where you are. If you’re anywhere in a tourist area you’ll get few BoE fivers, but a fair few tenners and a lot of twenties, and thank God for that, it means the English have been here for their customary invasion already, and will hopefully come back and spend wads more loot enjoy themselves greatly in our beautiful scenery and with our friendly people, and enjoy that, our hills and glens, our beaches and lochs and of course, superb food and drink includng many craft beers and gins and whiskies, our freindly banter about, errr, football (which we always lose unfortunately). Ho hum.

    71. ScottieDog says:

      @yesindyref2
      Not sure if there will be a Euro the way things are going. There will be another election in Italy and the euroscpetics have a big lead. I just wonder if they would go the whole hog and go back to the Lira.
      If A country with the size of italy’s Economy leaves, then I wonder if the dominoes would start to topple.
      The real beneficiary course of the Eurozone is Germany – a huge exporter with an artificially weak currency.
      Something needs to change there.

    72. ScottieDog says:

      We need to be free of the shackles of London hegemony. Look how confident the Faroese are.
      It’s brilliant.
      As was acknowledged in the film, scotland is hugely energy rich – there aren’t many nations which can heat and power themselves. We can.
      Money moves resources. A country’s govt should be able to issue the volume of currency it needs to move all the resources it needs and provide everyone with a job who wants one.

      Italy is learning the hard way.

    73. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland tonight’s help me Rhona says they’ll discuss the growth commission at 10.30pm, does this mean they’ll get two Britnats and an *expert* to rubbish it after they show a tweet from Nicola Sturgeon *defending* it or will we see an actual unbiased reflection of a serious document….Nah!

      I’m waiting in anticipation though

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 30 May, 2018 at 6:45 pm:

      ” … Who cares about the history of the Country of the Bank of England, compared with the power of #MMT in an Independent Scotland with our own currency?”

      Well not you for one. Then there is the closed mind syndrome that seems to pervade everything you post here on Wings.

      Just look at your efforts, above, where you say this, ” … Who cares about the history of the Country of the Bank of England” (my bold).

      There’s the closed mind at work – I’ve obviously wasted my time telling you the truth – The bank of England doesn’t legally have a country and it never has had a country. It was a private company from it’s inception until it was nationalised by a kingdom, (and a two partner united kingdom at that).

      So it first belonged to its private shareholders, represented by the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. Then it was Nationalised by the, “United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”, that, while containing three countries and a part of another country, comprises a bipartite united kingdom.

      The B of E was called the Bank of England because the Kingdom of England’s parliament banked with it and not because the country of England owned it.

      All of which knocks your economic theory into the proverbial cocked hat. I assume, of course, you actually can distinguish between what is a theory and that is fact?

      While I’m talking facts you are talking theories:-

      ” Theory – a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained. “

      Theories may indeed, (if proven), become fact, but until proven they remain just theories.

      Now the thing is that I’ve pointed out the theories you quote to justify your views have made serious errors and the main one is that the Bank of England belongs to , “A country”. It then goes on to theorise on that premise.

      Hence my description of it as jargon and gobbledegook.

    75. Dr Jim says:

      Mars bars are not owned by Martians and all floor cleaners are not Hoovers but they’re all called Hoovers
      Notre Dame school is in Bearsden but despite having a French name is not located in France or even owned by Bears

      *I can’t believe it’s not butter* Yet I can believe it’s not

      It’s a maelstrom of confusion out there

    76. Robert Peffers says:

      @ScottieDog says: 30 May, 2018 at 7:40 pm:

      “Struggling to see where I ever said the U.K. was a country. ““As it happens I just did so in the comment I made just before reading this one I’m replying to now.

      “You’re inventing arguments now.”

      Nope it is there black upon white and you even spelled country with an upper case initial letter.

      ” … I was referring to the function of the Bank of England”

      Which is actually neither here nor their. The truth being that the Bank of England has never belonged to either the country or the kingdom of England.

      ” … but rant away if it makes you happy.”

      I’m neither happy or unhappy or ranting – I’m just stating the absolute truth – nothing more and nothing less.

      I’m not even expounding a theory.

      The unvarnished truth is that the B of E was a private company until it was nationalised by the United Kingdom Government of which there are only two kingdoms as partners.

      It is named The United Kingdom for the very good reason that is what it is. No matter that it does not operate as a united kingdom of two equally sovereign partners. The actual legal position remains that it is a united Kingdom with two kingdoms as the partners. When one partner calls quits the union is over as is the united kingdom.

    77. Ian McCubbin says:

      They can build tunnels between islands and WM says no to money for tunnel under Birnam Hill for A9.
      Colonial rule it is.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      The arrogance of the Tories shows no limits.

      They argue about whether they should have some sort of customs agreement, or should it be the Swiss model, or true blue fairies at the bottom of their f’ing garden.

      When will they come to accept they don’t decide the details of the future EU relationship?

      The EU will offer a solution and the UK will accept or leave with nothing other than a bloody great bill.

      Like so many things, it’s the media at fault for allowing the Tories to continue with this charade. Where have all the investigative, enquiring, and ground breaking journalists gone?

    79. dadsarmy says:

      @Dr Jim
      Good discussion actually, and Sturgeon’s tweets today certainly helped the focus. Shafi says what he wants, but then that’s good too, this debate SHOULD be going on all over Scotland, and the more the merrier.

      @Robert Peffers (quoting me) “the Country of the Bank of England”

      See there you go again, not reading what’s there, only what you want to be there so you can call people dumb, stupid, closed minded, or fake, which is your constant agenda. That’s a joke, the Bank of England is NOT a country. See – you read it wrong, or interpreted it your own wat, deliberately or accidentally. I wasn’t talking about the country the Bank of England was in, I was talking about it as though it IS a country. D’ya get it now? Ha ha!

      @ScottieDog
      Well, I think the Euro will survive, but have to change to do so (the eurozone AND the so-called ECB).

      Meanwhile I’m taking every opporunity to mention MMT, hoping more and more people will get interested enough to look it up. The thing is this in my opinion, now we have the backstop of the Growth Commission report which is very conservative in its estimates as even supporters are saying, in other words being very cautious, we ourselves can do what we want without scaring the punters, whereas before perhaps we had to be more cautious, well, some of us at least 😎

    80. yesindyref2 says:

      Ooops, wrong moniker might not get through, sorry if repost.

      @Dr Jim
      Good discussion actually, and Sturgeon’s tweets today certainly helped the focus. Shafi says what he wants, but then that’s good too, this debate SHOULD be going on all over Scotland, and the more the merrier.

      @Robert Peffers (quoting me) “the Country of the Bank of England”

      See there you go again, not reading what’s there, only what you want to be there so you can call people dumb, stupid, closed minded, or fake, which is your constant agenda. That’s a joke, the Bank of England is NOT a country. See – you read it wrong, or interpreted it your own wat, deliberately or accidentally. I wasn’t talking about the country the Bank of England was in, I was talking about it as though it IS a country. D’ya get it now? Ha ha!

      @ScottieDog
      Well, I think the Euro will survive, but have to change to do so (the eurozone AND the so-called ECB).

      Meanwhile I’m taking every opporunity to mention MMT, hoping more and more people will get interested enough to look it up. The thing is this in my opinion, now we have the backstop of the Growth Commission report which is very conservative in its estimates as even supporters are saying, in other words being very cautious, we ourselves can do what we want without scaring the punters, whereas before perhaps we had to be more cautious, well, some of us at least 😎

    81. Robert Peffers says:

      @ScottieDog says: 30 May, 2018 at 9:28 pm:

      “Iim sorry,”

      No your not – so that’s a lie for a start.

      ” … I didn’t write the bank charter act. It’s no my fault.”

      No but you are propagating the theories, theories not facts.

      No doubt you did not also write the Treaty of Union or the thousands of other English laws imposed illegally upon Scotland but if you use them as arguments to justify your position then you are going along with the illegal imposition of English laws upon Scotland that are in direct breach of the Treaty of Union.

      BTW: As I explained earlier, a theory is not fact – it may if proven to be fact become fact but until proven as fact it remains a theory.

      There currently is a theory held by a minor United Kingdom political party the World was created just a few thousand years ago. That, though is just their theory – it sure as hell is never going to be a proven fact.

    82. jfngw says:

      Seen lots of comments online that since the growth commission used GERS in their document it was now proven to be accurate. What nonsense, they used GERS because it is the only thing available, there is no accurate figures regarding Scotland’s fiscal state, there are only estimates.

      If they did not use GERS, then what would they use. One made up set of figures is no more accurate than another. And this comment regarding using GERS was repeated by a respected Herald columnist, very poor.

    83. Smallaxe says:

      Dr Jim, @ 10:32 pm;

      Awaaay…you’ll be telling us next that there’s not a planet called Zanussi!
      😉

    84. yesindyref2 says:

      @jfngw
      Which one? I don’t keep up with the H at the moment, and haven’t posted there for nearly 3 weeks. Might do in future though at some important stage 🙂

    85. Tam the Bam. says:

      Just watched Roger Mullen (exSNP MP) and Jonathon Shafi (R.I.C.)on Scotland Tonight.
      Having watched Shafi’s performance at the Aberdeen Conference in April on INDEPENDENCE LIVE…I quickly came to the conclusion the guy was simply canvassing support for Jeremy Corbyn.His performance tonight confirmed it.

    86. Betty Boop says:

      The Faroes, my kind of country… which is why I feel sad for Scotland, a country hobbled by too many people who lack confidence and Westminster. We owe it to past and future generations to get out of the shackles.

    87. Albert Herring says:

      Is Kelty under the Forth Bridge?

    88. Dr Jim says:

      The only people who use real figures when it comes to money are us because our money is not infinite whereas governments move one column to the left another to the right double down on the figure they first thought of then project out of their imagination another number that suits their purposes and Bazinga it becomes monetery policy and it was a fact all along us morons just didnae understand it but they find a hundred *experts* to swear it’s correct

      The main thing is we pay for whatever is missing from our finite money and the world keeps revolving and the rich stay that way

      Such is the purpose of our lives….to serve and feed the whale

    89. Highland Wifie says:

      I have almost never watched any news or current affairs programme since giving up the tv licence last summer. Short clips when visiting friends or relatives reminds me of how bad it is and how far detached I have become from the propaganda machine. It’s like being off a drug you were addicted to for decades. The mind clears and the world has changed irrevocably.
      The longer I stay away from it the more convinced I am that broadcasting from all the Britnat channels is a poison that is systematically destroying our self esteem, our ambition, our view of ourselves in the world. Like any drug, you have to come off it before you can see what it has been doing to you.

      Getting rid of this enemy in our midst doesn’t seem to be an option until we are independent. All we can do is stop watching. Just stop.

      How does it feel to watch that amazing film about the Faroe Islands? That’s how it should feel watching your nation’s tv all the time.

    90. yesindyref2 says:

      Probably the best thing “the” Gubmint could do for the economy is have a secret session, an emergency bill, straight to the Lords and back and for and back and for and back, double quick time, between a swift half and a half at the bar, privy council waiting in the corridor, a courier straight to Buck House (probably a bit over the top to have her maj waiting in the member’s dining room), and then in the morning announce that all personal overdrafts, all loans except perhaps mortgages though maybe even including them, all credit cards, and all other personal debt, was hereby immediately cancelled and non-repayable.

      I recommend this Bill to the House, wherever and whichever it is.

    91. Dr Jim says:

      Don’t worry folks tomorrow night we’ll have Cat Boyd telling us Jeremy Corbyn will deliver us from evil

      Who else have we not had on for a while? Sillars oh yeah Sillars let’s get him wae his ice cream van on to rubbish some stuff he knows sod all about

      These supposed *pro* independence types are only fit for knitting rafia and reading poems in the backs of empty pubs to four people who keep insisting Patrick Harvie’s a Green honest he is, sorry to dissapoint the wee comrade isnae really, and they all want tax proposals that would get you taken out and shot even in Russia

    92. boris says:

      Scottish energy production cheap. England energy production dear. But Scots share the cost!!! and the Hinkley Point nuclear plants will add £ billions to the monthly bill

      https://caltonjock.com/2018/05/30/energy-production-scots-are-getting-ripped-off-by-westminster-and-it-will-get-worse-unless-we-gain-our-independence/

    93. yesindyref2 says:

      This is priceless. From our Average:

      “Growth Commission trick: they use 21/22 as the starting year for analysis – that way they get to bank the economic benefits of fiscal prudence while blaming the pain of it all on Westminster – genius, h/t @AndrewWilson”

      Ummm, maybe 21/22 is the first year we can realistically be Independent?

      Or, Good Heavens, Average has been converted by the Growth Commission Report and is gagging for Indy as soon as possible.

      Well sweetie, aren’t we all!

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      Quite an interesting initial analysis from FoAI

      https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-economy/fiscal-policy/some-early-thoughts-on-the-sustainable-growth-commission-report/

      Not surprisingly more professional in its approach than some of the wild “analysis” with the emphasis on the first syllable, from the rabid Unionist amateurs. Which of course is another benefit, whether deliberate or accidental, of the report itself, as some of those others embrace blog hara-kiri in their determination to do down Indy and anything associated with it.

      Apologies to Nana / Smallaxe if they’ve already posted the link, I’ve had to skim postings the last few days.

      Oh, and another one on a different topic:

      The survey results continue to show a recovery in optimism and activity in the UK Continental Shelf. 41% of businesses are now working at or above optimum levels and levels of optimism are at their highest since 2013. For the first time in four years, we are also seeing positive figures for exploration, suggesting an opening up of the pipeline for future work. Companies continue to shed jobs, albeit the pace of decline has eased, whilst there are positive signs for new investment.” Full pdf available here:

      https://www.sbs.strath.ac.uk/feeds/news.aspx?id=1572

      Strikes me by the way that if the iSG don’t use oil revenue as part of the daily finances, the best plan, the oil fund can reinvest in the industry with the revenues, as well I guess as sustainables, CCS and even water.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      Little bit of an old article but unsurprisingly under-reported as it has investment from the SG as part of the £1.2 million they’re investing. I saw it in the wee paper yesterday which I rarely have the time to read these days though the wife always buys it. A first result on its way:

      “HUNTERSTON PORT SECURES ENERGY DECOMMISSIONING INVESTMENT”

      https://www.peelports.com/news/2017/hunterston-port-secures-energy-decommissioning-investment

      “…grant funding from the Scottish Government that could pave the way for the site to become one of the UK’s most important oil and gas decommissioning facilities“.

      Well, North Ayrshire certainly needs a boost, rather than being Glasgow’s dormitory..

    96. yesindyref2 says:

      Und finally don’t think anyone posted this one before, from a NO voter last ref who I can’t just make out, possibly on the cusp:

      https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/05/scotland-s-unionists-attack-snp-s-growth-commission-report-their-peril

    97. robertknight says:

      In Mel Gibson’s distorted version of history, Edward Longshanks is quoted as saying “The trouble with Scotland, is that it’s full of Scots”.

      Well, seven-plus centuries later, the trouble with Scotland is that it’s full of Yoons.

    98. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robertknight, I think you mean BRITISH NATIONALISTS – as in the Conservative and Unionist Party the Labour Party in Scotland ,the BNP ,the EDL and the flute tooters.

    99. Dorothy Devine says:

      I see that the ardent British Nationalist Ruth Davidson has been named as one of the ‘most influential Woman ‘ by Vogue Magazine – the Duchess of Sussex gets a wee mention too!

    100. hackalumpoff says:

      The latest entertainment from Jock Scott, while we wait for Nana’s links.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=1ZMXWkr_IZk

    101. Nana says:

      The Tommy Robinson case shows ‘alt-right’ tactics are here in the UK
      http://archive.is/mi5wo

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/05/29/using-it-losing-it-what-has-eu-citizenship-meant-to-young-people-in-britain/

      Brexit: choose your fantasies
      http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86886

      EU Said to Mull Tougher Warning on No-Deal Brexit If Talks Stall
      http://archive.is/dwFMk

    102. Nana says:

      Yesterday the European parliament passed a new law that will end the conflation of free movement of people with the undercutting of local workers by EU migrants.
      http://archive.is/8B33o

      The UK unlawfully copying data from EU police system
      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1001436217672683521.html

      https://theconversation.com/what-nazi-exhibitions-tell-us-about-how-the-far-right-engages-audiences-today-97381

      At the #EuranetPlusSummit on May 22, 2018, journalists from leading media all over Europe questioned Michel Barnier on various Brexit topics – in a truly European debate.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywzQOfxqSIo&feature=youtu.be

    103. galamcennalath says:

      Dorothy Devine says:

      Ruth Davidson has been named as one of the ‘most influential Woman ‘

      Astonishing! Upon what, and where, has she exercised any influence?

      Not much in Holyrood that I can think if. Just a moaning and shouty non contributor.

      Or, at her party HQ in London? Name chance, she’s still Scottish after all.

      What she did do, right enough, is influence some gullible BritNats in Scotland. She garnered votes by disassociating herself from her own party’s policies and standing as The Davidson Just Say No Party.

      So deceitful is the new influential.

    104. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Nana.

      Thank you for your links. Kettle’s on!
      🙂

    105. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe, nice to see you 🙂

    106. Highland Wifie says:

      Good morning Nana. Great links as usual.
      Thank you.

    107. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana, the situation the Palestinians find themselves in is utterly bereft of humanity , utterly wretched , yet criticism of Israel is viewed only as anti semitic and never as justified.

      I do wonder why other Arab nations don’t help and even forge bonds with the Israeli government – if the Saudi story is to be believed.

      Gallamcennaleth, she is the good company of Prince Harry’s new wife who has done nothing other than look pretty!

    108. Smallaxe says:

      Dorothy Devine,

      Come and join us, Dorothy;
      https://www.palestinecampaign.org/campaigns/
      Everybody’s welcome.
      🙂

    109. Fred says:

      Morning all, thanks Nana & hackalumpoff for the light relief!

      It won’t surely have escaped U guys notice that Mr Gupta, the saviour of the Lochaber aluminium smelter, has purchased another smelter in France along with an alloy-wheels plant. It is his stated intention to build just such a plant at Fort William to give added-value to the aluminium. Presumably this is a step in that direction as Britain currently imports these!

    110. ScottieDog says:

      Growth Commission trick: they use 21/22 as the starting year for analysis – that way they get to bank the economic benefits of fiscal prudence while blaming the pain of it all on Westminster – genius, h/t @AndrewWilson”

      This is the problem with kev. He can’t differentiate macro with micro.

    111. Ian Foulds says:

      Dorothy Devine at 6.43am

      Whilst we still have ‘Royals’ in Scotland, maybe we should start to refer to them with their Scottish titles, not the English ones?

      Duchess of Sussex = Countess of Dumbarton (albeit I have seen this as Countess of Dunbarton, so not sure which is correct!).

      Please interpret this comment as being said in a polite and non-rebuking tone. I do sometimes think even the written word can be misinterpreted.

      Regards,

      Ian

    112. Macart says:

      Mornin’ Nana

      Back from my travels. Just catching up. Fine vid ATL and a fair old selection of links to get on with. 🙂

    113. Socrates MacSporran says:

      As a big fan of HRH the Duke of Rothesay, simply because he came up here, bought Dumfries House and transformed it; then took an interest in my own wee village and has got it going again, can I endorse Dorothy Devine’s cal for more use of the Royals’ Scottish titles.

      We could start by renaming Elizabeth, Queen of Scots – now tht would really get up the Britnats’ collective noses.

      Can I add, when I look at the continuing and growing clusterfuck of Brexit, Tory mismanagement and the shrill desperation to be noticed of Colonel Yaafite – if we cannot win Indyref2, we will never be free.

    114. Golfnut says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran
      How about, Elizabeth, by the Sovereign will of the People of Scotland, Queen of Scots.
      A timely reminder to the Queen and perhaps help educate our people just who holds the power. It’s not Queen and its not Westminster.

    115. Hamish100 says:

      So the duky of rothesay upgraded hoose using taxpayers. His auld maw lives in other big hooses. Grenfell residents (survivors) live in hotel rooms 1 yr on

    116. Ottomanboi says:

      America’s stooge Ukrain does it again…you simply cant trust those scheming, dishonest Russians! Johnsons size 10s in mouth once again?
      Out of the Western ‘alliance’ always something risible.

    117. Les Wilson says:

      O/T
      I could not get hold of a National yesterday. So looked it up online, and was interested on a lot of comments about what May will do when Nicola asks for an order 30 as per Salmond – Cameron.

      A lot commented about what we may do if refused ie “this is not the time” (again).

      However, do we not possess a silver bullet, in the Act of Union.
      How hard would it be to prove that England has broken the act in their favour, in a myriad of ways over our 300 odd years. As such could be proved in court, as they are there to be examined.

      Should we not get the order 30, then should we not take them to court and prove how they have used the Act of Union for the benefit of England and use their overlord intentions on Scotland rather than the equal partner we should be, as laid out in the Act itself.

      Firstly, taking them to court over their acts, would put them in a serious spin for they know very well how they have acted.
      The end result would let us annul the act altogether. All legal, no UDI as some others talk about, which I think would cause us huge problems. However done legally, not nearly so much.

      Anyone got legal thoughts on the matter?

    118. Robert Peffers says:

      @Gfaetheblock says: 30 May, 2018 at 9:40 pm:

      Also, on a personal note, that is a large amount of cash to be walking about with, I would suggest using a debit card, for security reasons.”

      I do pay large bills, (electricity/gas, etc. on-line.
      Anyway I didn’t mention any actual totals.

      Secondly it is rather hard to avoid when you draw your retirement pension and combined disabilities benefits from the Post office.

      Plus the fact that I can’t really walk about due to disability so all cash transactions are grouped in a fairly restricted area. By the time I’ve done the 2 weeks shopping there isn’t usually very much left.

      So it is usually out of one shop, load buggy into van, go to next stop, unload buggy and repeat. So no real walking, or buggying, around.

      My P.O., Bank, supermarket, chemist, frozen food shop, et al are all in a very tight area. If I’m going to be carrying a larger sum than usual it is draw last of all. So I’m only carrying it from either the bank or Post Office to the van and driving home.

      Ah’m no daft ye ken. ;-))

    119. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Anyone got legal thoughts on the matter?”

      You don’t normally get legal advice for free, Les *rubs chin ruefully*.

      The Act of Union has been broken so many times and almost from the start but I don’t know if the SG would want to get involved in a complicated legal case to prove it. They may prefer to wait until the Continuity Bill is over-ruled by the illegitimate (in my view) Supreme Court, which would be a Union-breaker and much simpler to argue in court (primacy of Scots law in Scotland).

      Best outcome imo is the democratic one where a majority of us vote to restore our independence.

      Incidentally, both in the cases of Thomas Muir and the 1820 martyrs, was English oyer and terminer not illegally used in Scotland? Our legal profession was pretty supine over that, unless my memory serves me ill.

    120. Indy2 says:

      I must admit, this “Growth Report” has left me feeling a bit let down.

      Has anybody got anything good to say about it so I can pass on that message???

      The Herald is running with:

      Nationalist agitator Sean Clerkin quits independence movement over Growth report ‘betrayal’

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16259508.Nationalist_agitator_quits_Scots_independence_movement_over_Growth_report__betrayal_/?ref=mr&lp=1

    121. Robert Peffers says:

      @ScottieDog says: 30 May, 2018 at 9:52 pm:

      ” … As was acknowledged in the film, scotland is hugely energy rich – there aren’t many nations which can heat and power themselves. We can.

      In my own lifetime Scotland has always been a net exporter of power, fuel and food/drink and an overall net exporter of manufactured goods.

      Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity since just after WWII when the first cross-border national grid line was run to carry the output of the old Portobello coal fired power
      Station across the border into England.

      We have been net exporters of power ever since. In those days the Pumpherston Oil Works were still in full production and the first Grangemouth refinery was built in 1924.

      Scotland has always been a net exporter of food & Drink. In the 1950s there was great activity in the expansion of Hydro Schemes to generate electricity and Scottish shipbuilding and heavy engineering led the World.

      Glasgow was the second city of the British Empire and that a threat to the Westminster Establishment and Westminster was plotting to negate that threat. The Red Clydesiders were the threat that had to be removed. Their answer was in the hands of the Unionist Scottish Labour Party. One small area of Glasgow supplied steam locomotives for the World’s railways and Glasgow was expanding in all directions.

      Thus began the Westminster plans to break up Glasgow. Shipbuilding was to be restrained, the move from Steam to diesel gave the chance to kill off the steam locomotive building and the rest of the plan was to build new towns all over Scotland and, of course the new town of Corby, (a.k.a, Little Scotland), in England.

      Glasgow was successfully removed as a threat to Westminster and, in the process The Scottish growth in manufacturing was sacrificed to keep London as the Westminster Establishment’s stronghold. Glasgow’s strengths were successfully neutered and Glasgow became the place in Britain with the very worst poverty in retain and Glasgow has never quite recovered.

      The Gorbals and surrounding area, once the most productive area in the British Empire. was turned into the most notorious poverty stricken slum area in the civilised World.

    122. jfngw says:

      @Yesindref2 at 11:17pm

      I didn’t read the H either but was reading a MacW twitter feed (I’m not on twitter so can’t follow him).

    123. Jim says:

      Way topic but, as a kid, hot water over corn flakes, drain, add cold milk and shitloads of sugar. Take that Jamie Oliver.

    124. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 30 May, 2018 at 10:11 pm:

      ” … does this mean they’ll get two Britnats and an *expert* to rubbish it after they show a tweet from Nicola Sturgeon *defending* it”

      Well spotter Dr Jim, only the BBC and SMSM could dream up and use the term, “Defending”, to apply to Nicola’s tweet. Their tactics become more obvious by the day. There is nothing requiring defence and there was no attempt to defend the matter. I wonder what congenital idiot dreamt that one up.

      There are now very encouraging signs of sheer desperation in all that the Westminster Propaganda Wing now have to offer. Few Scots, even at the subliminal level, can fail to feel that desperation oozing out of all SMSM outpourings. Which outpourings get more like a sewerage outflow every day.

    125. Breeks says:


      galamcennalath says:
      31 May, 2018 at 7:07 am
      Dorothy Devine says:

      Ruth Davidson has been named as one of the ‘most influential Woman ‘

      Astonishing! Upon what, and where, has she exercised any influence?…

      It’s all through the looking glass stuff.

      Peter Bell’s article in Nana’s links is spot on, but the Tories, if they read it at all, will simply note with alacrity how Davidson gets under the skin of Independence supporters. She certainly does, but not for the reasons the BritNat media wants to suppose.

      The BritNat Establishment, the BBC and mainstream media need a presence in Scotland, a frontman. Davidson is just the latest Jim Murphy, the convenient coathook who’d sell their soul and principles in a heartbeat to provide an anchor and the illusion of relevance for British Unionism to hang its Union Jack pyjamas upon up here in Scotchland.

      Think back, in Annabelle Goldie the BritNats an erudite Tory with principle and integrity, who wasn’t any use to them at all. Its not a Tory they need, it’s not a Unionist they need. It’s the very lack of principle, the very lack of integrity, and manic self serving charlatanism of Davidson that makes her useful tool for the Establishment. To the tune of the Bangles, It’s just another manic mouthpiece…

      Ruth is just the puppet dancing on the stage, but it’s not just the Establishment pulling her strings, it’s the Establishment who booked the theatre, staged the Ruth Davidson Show, paid for all the promotion and publicity, and gave every household in the country a free ticket to watch via the TV in their living room. If there was no Ruth Davidson, there’d just be some other UK flunky mouthpiece getting the same top billing.

      Personally I think it’s kinda funny. The Establishment has invested so much Union gold in building up Davidson, and when it’s going to matter, when Nicola finally goes hard for Indy, Davidson will be on maternity leave. What a delicious facepalm for the “safe hands” of Unionism.

      Way to go Ruthie, nobody does it like you do! Hahahahahaha!!!

    126. Dr Jim says:

      Arse moving keeps you alive: Not banning Tony the Tiger

      The eating of all food, any food will make you fat if you don’t move your Arse so Jamie idiot fat Oliver telling people to not eat stuff that makes you fat by telling you to eat the stuff he eats that makes you just as fat as him is mentalness of the highest order, and this guy’s desperation to make himself even more stupidly famous than he already is and for folk to fall for this shit is more mind numbingly stupid that actually being fat

      Not moving the Arse is what makes you fat,(unless there’s an underlying medical problem) it’s not rocket science for God sake, people used to eat pounds of full fat butter and cheese and never got fat, WHY? because no buses no taxis walked to school ran roon the playground grew up went to work and actually worked

      I’m 69 years old and when I was growing up there was one fat man in my street that’s how out of place it looked
      Anyone can check old photgraphs from any western city in the world around fifty years ago and fat people were few and far between, we all remember our dads and grand dads they were skinny for the most part

      So when people say they’re very busy but they’re going from place to place in taxis and cars munching stuff while they go then they’re not busy, that’s a sedentary lifestyle and that’s the fat that kills you

      Sorry folks for ranting but this guy keeps involving himself with our politicians and for some unknown reason they feel as if it’s politically correct to listen to him, and you know what’s worse most of the politicians he talks to are skinnier than him

      Jamie Oliver and hypocrisy have now surpassed Piers Morgan on the self aggrandisement idiot scale

    127. starlaw says:

      Dr Jim … 10-31

      If you look at film of Celtic fans in Lisbon 1967 they were mostly built like whippets.
      Compare this to the Celtic fans who were at Seville years later they are mostly built like fat Boab from Oor Wullie .

    128. Jim says:

      “Kevin Hague
      ?Verified account @kevverage

      Kevin Hague Retweeted Kevin Hague

      this is quite something (see thread) @afneil @alexmassie @euanmccolm @JournoStephen @JohnRentoul @BBCDouglasF @BBCJohnBeattie @FraserNelson”
      ———–

      A cry for help………lol

    129. McDuff says:

      Great film. When you think what this tiny country of 50,000 can do, with its broadband, its own media and airline, it makes me want to scream when I think about Scotland. We have all those rich resources yet we are being deliberately dragged down the pan to austerity and poverty.
      I still say one of the biggest threats to this county is English migration which could eventually see Scots losing control of their own country.

    130. Shinty says:

      Ian Foulds – It’s Dumbarton but Dunbartonshire (don’t know why)

    131. Question Time lineup from Perth (Scotland),

      Kate Forbes
      Brian Souter
      Caroline Flint
      Darren McGarvey
      Kwasi Kwarteng

      Kate is a very competent politician and will be well briefed on the obvious selectively critical questions on Growth Commision report,

      and unlike the BBC selected audience and other panallist`s she will have read the full report.

    132. Dr Jim says:

      Sorry folks I’m ranting again:

      England, a country with some of the worst public services in the western world, a country since Brexit loaded with hate crime and racism worse that it was before which was bad enough, a country with an immigration policy that says they welcome immigrants then shoves them into sub standard shit holes in a collective mass then blames them when they get angry about living in sub standard shit holes

      England, where half my family live who believe their media when they tell them foreigners are all out to get them and that life is more wonderfull where they are because the Germans are bad the French are bad the Russians are bad blah blah blah

      England, a country that goes on holiday to places like Spain or France and don’t seem to notice they’re disliked intensely by the people who live there because the policies of their English government are offensive to every reasonable thinking normal person but them and creates an air of superiority in the English population so much so it emerges as total arrogance

      England, a country so stitched up by the governing elite the actual people have no one to vote for because they’re so brainwashed into thinking that somehow Labour and Tory are two different parties and not what we in Scotland have learned that they’re both one and the same who take turns when the unrest becomes too much, job done masses fooled move on

      England, who now are being brought round to the notion that as well as all the other countries who want to do them down are being told it’s somehow Scotlands fault things are not as rosy as they used to be in 1950 green grass land and indeed the Harridon that is Nicola Sturgeon is an evil North Witch with tremendous magical powers that are wrecking their Brexit and she must be destroyed and as we’ve seen recently some of them mean this literally

      England, a country that doesn’t blame itself for anything
      yet they’re mighty and well, adjectives…

      Scotland, a country where half the population are full of hope and aspiration and the other half want to be like….. England ???

    133. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T.

      Oh ma sides ur sair Clerkins leaving the Independence Movement . Oh what joy to see that news today & everyday hereafter LoL , he’s like ah Rid YoYo unfortunately .

    134. Fred says:

      This countess of Dumbarton business is bad news for Jackie Baillie. That particular ennoblement would have been the very thing when she finally joins the vermin in ermine!

    135. Abulhaq says:

      @McDuff
      Up a bit to Iceland, fewer ‘advantages’ than Scotland, and that scream registers on canine frequency.

    136. Dr Jim says:

      Clerkin:

      How do you *leave* the Independence movement? there aren’t memberships or tickets or certificates of existence so how do you *leave* something that you were never actually a member of

      If memory serves me correctly the only thing Clerkin was ever a member of was the Labour party (I might be wrong on that)
      Strange reporting about this man who stood outside Nicola Sturgeons house half the night protesting against her when she wasn’t even home

      The neighbours told her when she got in, so I’m sure he’s a sad loss to all those who didnae know who the hell he was

    137. HandandShrimp says:

      Didn’t Sean harangue the workers in the Yes shop in Hope Street during the referendum campaign with his megaphone?

      Sean really only aligns with Sean. Like Beetlejuice “he does not work well with others” 🙂

      I have no doubt that during Indyref2 Sean will appear with his megaphone and shout…probably at everyone and will probably loosely affiliate with the most radical Yes group around at that juncture.

    138. Liz g says:

      Indy 2 @ 9.41 am
      Well I don’t know about something good about the Growth Report!
      But my take on it is……
      This is aimed at demonstrating…. What I call “full spectrum Indy”….
      We already know the “Common Weal” version,and to some that way forward is entirely possible and desirable!
      But what about the other’s (likely to be soft No’s)?
      Those who think that Indy is a nice idea,but who,believe themselves to be pragmatic and their worldview is that the world doesn’t actually work that way…
      They see the current Western Democracies model of organising how society is run as the only realistic way.
      The people who think that the SNP/Yes are offering the so called land of milk and honey….. nice but naw!!

      This report,as far as I can tell,is demonstrating that Scotland can also organize itself on that model too.
      If it wanted to!
      Infact it can do it better!
      And it shows the working..

      So the range of choices for Indy is there…. As I said full spectrum Indy..

      Both models….. Land of milk and Honey & Mini Me Westminster
      are now credibly described,last time the ,Mini Me Westminster one was lacking.

      This time we can show,that somewhere inbetween is the way forward for Scotland,all we have to do is take back the right to actually make those choices…. and convince enough people that we can do it better than Westminster.

      Which obviously we can,for the decision-making will be Scotland specific and not London centric,but mainly because we will have brought our Government within slapping distance!!

      Hope that helps??

    139. Abulhaq says:

      One might not care for or have issues with that Growth Commission report but to quit the pro-independence movement over it? Give some Scots a gun and you can predict what they’ll do with it. Ouch!

    140. Tam the Bam. says:

      Liz g @ 11-44am

      That’s a very fair exposition of the Growth Report Liz.This paper is,after all,basically a set of recommendations offered up for debate.
      Of course…to some..it doesn’t chime with their way of thinking so its ‘toys oot the pram.’No doubt we’ll be treated to a prime example of this from Loki tonight on QT.Can we expect a new ‘self-publicist-elites’ party featuring the usual suspects..McGarvey/Haggerty/Shafi/Boyd/Clerkin?

    141. Tam the Bam. says:

      Silly me!…all of the above are fully paid up ‘Corbynistas!’

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottieDog
      He’s quite easy to destroy at the right time which is why it’s good so many follow him because it does for them as well, but whoever’s on TV or whatever against him would need to research his blogs and twitter.

    143. Ian Foulds says:

      Shinty at 11.05

      Indeed it is. However, those who wrote the respective articles (both ways) did not make it clear whether the new Mr and Mrs were Earl and Countess of the town or the county.

      Sorry if I am sounding a bit like Mr. Peffers – no offence meant to him either!

    144. yesindyref2 says:

      @Jim
      Wow. I’m saying nothing 🙂

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      @jfngw
      I guessed it was from his recent articles. Well, if he can woo the remaining Labour vote, so much the better.

    146. liz g says:

      Tam the Bam @ 12.24
      Thank you Tam..
      I really can’t see what all the hand wringing is aboot?
      I would have thought that it was obvious that it’s the neo-liberal model that we are going to be inheriting anyway.
      The changes the people who prefer the “Common Weal” model want to see,will have to evolve ,IE, change over time,and probably small changes at that.

      Therefore to show that Yes are not proposing to pull the whole lot down and start again,we needed to demonstrate that the neo- liberal model transposing over to Scotland can function (pardon the pun) independently from Westminster
      Also to show potential improvements in the model when it becomes Scotland specific!

      The conclusion being that,even only to stick with that model and just customize it for Scotland,would have enough benefits to make it worth doing.
      But also that the doing of it wouldn’t cause chaos.

      And most importantly those who don’t think that’s good enough and want to change away from the neo-liberal consensus!
      Don’t have to stop their efforts to make it happen they
      will not only have a voice,but also the power to make the case for change and then the ability to gain the numbers to make it happen!
      But best of all won’t have Westminster,and the overwhelming numbers of the English electorate in the way.

      Now I don’t want to see a “Mini Me Westminster” but I know that’s the system we will be inheriting and I am more than willing to argue for the change I want to see.
      Hopefully the people of Scotland will agree to make Holyrood do it!!!
      But we need the power to do so first that’s the bit that’s Non Negotiable… everything else is just detail!
      Including the .. Question Time Narrative… what ever they punt at us tonight,will have very little to do with the conversations we are actually having!

    147. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Indy2 @ 09:41,

      I don’t see why you should feel bad about the GCR. It’s not particularly intended to appeal to the already-convinced like you or me, but the convinceable former-No. The very people we have to win over.

      To show the “fearties” that we’re going to make a stable and minimal-disruption transition to a stand-alone economy.

      Exercising the full advantages of autonomy will come along naturally enough before very long. As Henry Ford once put it, you get ahead by picking up the potatoes at the bottom of the pile – the rest eventually come your way of their own accord.

      If this cautious approach doesn’t appeal to the likes of Clerkin, that’s a welcome bonus in my book. He has never had any traction with much anybody anyway. On the contrary, he has probably repelled way more than he has ever attracted.

    148. Andy-B says:

      I see that Loki or Darren McGarvey bloke is on QT tonight. No prizes for guessing whether or not he’ll stand up for a indy Scotland.

    149. Referendum1707 says:

      Andy-B

      Not interested in guessing or the prize because I won’t be watching it in the first place. What kind of fool would think of themselves as a supporter of independence for Scotland but then make a point of tuning in to britnat propaganda platforms which have no function here other than to attempt to weaken belief in an independent Scotland.

      If all those Yessers who support the bbc etc by tuning in to it (whether they pay the licence or not) were to STOP their viewing figures would drop even more dramatically then they currently are and they’d really start to panic. They’d never admit it let alone talk about it publicly but you can bet your arse that if that happened and there was a huge further drop in Scottish viewer numbers for politics/current affairs and “news” programmes they’d be up at nights gritting their teeth with worry. Sound good?

    150. Dorothy Devine says:

      Smallaxe , just catching up , I have never understood why the western world is so silent on the plight of the Palestinians but raucous in their accusatory finger pointing or even inexcusable invasion of others under a spurious humanitarian banner.

      Neither can I understand the inaction of other Arab countries which border the illegally expanding Israel – do they think they are immune to border encroachment.

      Ian Foulds, I think of Prince harry as an English prince and one title should be enough for anyone , I don’t hold with the tossing out of ‘convenience titles’ to anyone and certainly not a sop to keep the Scots , Welsh <,Irish and English happy.

      He's a prince – enough! He certainly doesn't need to trail around different titles just because his granny gave him them.

    151. James says:

      Riddoch’s claim about Faroese mobile broadband is probably untrue – another small island quasi-nation (mine, Jersey) has pervasive fast (20 mbps+) 4G, and almost 100% fibre to the house (the last fibre connections go in this month).

      But I guess it’s what you do with it that matters.

    152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi James.

      Faroes:

      Average download speed – 29.54 Mb/s

      Average upload speed – 10,52 Mb/s

      Info from:-

      https://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/isp-directory/Faroe-Islands.html



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