The Talent
So we stumbled, we thought, across a random Twitter idiot this morning.
Alert readers may have spotted a flaw or two in that claim.
Because as can be clearly seen in the thread, the data being used in the analysis only went up to 2011, so at an absolute maximum the SNP government at Holyrood could only have any responsibility at all for FOUR years of the 40 studied, not 10.
But secondly, of course, for three of those four years of SNP government Labour, not the Tories, were in power at Westminster. So even if you accept the absurd notion that the SNP have been “applying Tory cuts” – and it’s probably worth mentioning that the Scottish Government had no borrowing powers prior to 2012 – at the most they could have been doing so for ONE of the 40 years the analysis covers (specifically 2011).
Throw in the fact that the SNP have been the Scottish Government for more than 11 years, not 10, and you’ve got an impressive THREE elementary factual errors about Scottish politics (and basic arithmetic) in a tweet of just eight words.
(Even before you get to the mad spin of blaming the SNP for the woes of a city that’s been under multiple levels of Labour control for 76 of the last 85 years, and for 38 of the 40 years in the study.)
In fact, let’s do a quick count for all three branches of governance over the period:
UK GOVERNMENT
Labour: 18/40 years (45%)
SNP: 0/40 years (0%)
SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT
Labour: 8/12 years (67%)
SNP: 4/12 years (33%)
COUNCIL
Labour: 38/40 years (95%)
SNP: 0/40 years (0%)
So we suppose this shouldn’t really have come as a shock:
But as it turned out Mr Whitehead was an even more colourful character than that. Because as recently as last year he was a Labour council candidate:
Endorsed – albeit not very convincingly – by Owen Jones, no less.
@guardian writer @OwenJones84 endorses #Almond @scottishlabour candidate Bruce Whitehead @EdWestCLP @EdinburghLabour @Tramspotter pic.twitter.com/R79LSKAqMr
— Bruce Whitehead (@Bruce4Almond) February 11, 2017
Despite having stood against Labour in elections (ironically for the “Left Unity Party”) on a number of previous occasions.
It didn’t go too well, as Mr Whitehead trailed in in sixth place in the four-member ward, failing to get elected despite having the Labour vote all to himself.
It’s a tiny little story. But it says so much (none of it good) about both Scottish politics and the Scottish media that such a dishonest, disloyal, partisan dimwit has a CV that encompasses almost all of Scotland’s most distinguished news brands (including “The Time”, apparently), and can still get selected to run for one of its major parties.
Still, we suppose at least he’s not a front-bench MSP.
We’d advise anyone still holding their breath for the revival of either Scottish Labour or newspaper sales to prepare themselves for a fair old wait yet.
Come on 55% open your eyes.
Labour is the problem.
The media is the problem.
You might have a comfortable life at the moment but you are condemning your kids to a bleak future. They will hate you for it.
Everybody expects liars to tell lies but nobody *expects* the media to be complicit in the telling of those lies, the media are the guys who are supposed to be signed up to expose the liars
There are countries around the world who get very angry when they catch their media lying to them but right here in lil old Scotland and down there in English Nationalist land the people shrug their shoulders with the apathy and attitude of the doomed
He still has an active Twitter account as @Bruce4Almond.
You sometimes wonder whether they actually believe the… stuff… they spread? Just wow! 😮
He’s local to me – there is a street in Queensferry named after him [not him personally of course, but I’m fairly sure it was some worthy relative]
He didn’t like Kevin either…
link to labourhame.com
Brilliant and almost casually constructed piece of wings’ analysis
This is so funny ????
What made that Bell end think this was never going to come to light ?????
And that’s why they hate you so much Rev.
You turn over the stones these slimy creatures hide under.
Another top notch piece of research. Kudos.
It rather emphasises the truth that people want into politics to feather their own bed, rather than the old fashioned maxim of wanting to make society better for everyone.
To that end they have become liars and swindlers before they get the job, rather than after being elected.
“You sometimes wonder whether they actually believe the… stuff… they spread? Just wow”! ?
I cant beleive its not shmutter!
schmutter
??m?t?/Submit
nouninformal
1.
clothing; garments.
2.
worthless material; rubbish.
Origin
1950s: from Yiddish schmatte ‘rag’.
Translate schmutter to
Use over time for: schmutter
Take your pick!
[…] Wings Over Scotland The Talent So we stumbled, we thought, across a random Twitter idiot this morning. Alert readers […]
Probably not totally dim, but in true snooty Labour fashion thinks the public are. Never sure if Labour snobbery is worse than Conservative.
Another Labour Unionist liar. Trouble with liars they always get found out. The negative pool of unionists candidates. Who in their right mind world join a unionist Party, especially in Scotland. Promoted above their capabilities. The £Billions from Scotland they have wasted. Illegally kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The banking crash. Ruining the world economy. Causing the worse migration crisis since 11WW. Now Brexit. Appalling. Cheating and lying, electoral fraud.
The Westminster mess is an absolute scandal. The lies they tell about the EU are just disgusting.
Which private school did Brucie grace then ?
Appalled frequently at how low Labour in Scotland have sunk – to think that once most people here supported them! I supported Labour in England and Scotland for over 40 years and now am ashamed when I think of it. They were not so bad in England although they were, as usual, incompetent, and got themselves elected with promises of more equality and better lives for all. The usual Labour jam tomorrow. This lot here are shocking in their incompetence, dishonesty and lack of political awareness. They are truly finished – most of the people have seen through them. Did anyone else notice on the video that Owen Jones clearly didn’t know the clowns name?
public. doh
……and Gary Robertson of the bbc PQ Mob regurgitate and spin the information. Surely his OBE/OBN must be awaiting him?
@jdman
Pretty much. It’s the sheer fucking brassneckery involved. They had decades of near unchallenged privilege and access in Scotland.
DECADES!
The running down of industry, the creation of poverty sinks, the abuse of councils, ALEOs, PFI schemes. ALL of it, was on Labour’s watch either in or out of Westminster government.
Yet a party that’s only had eleven years of power and have both hands and one leg tied behind their back, are expected to sort this kind of neglect out yesterday. If not sooner. Oh, and carry the can for those decades of mismanagement.
Timely item on a morning where male presenter on GMS – think it was Gary but in truth I was in the shower at the time -took what passed for genuine hurt at the suggestion that BBC Scotland were at default rather less than even handed in their reportage on Scottish politics.
Without mayhem there is no media:
I think anybody hoping the media will ever take resposibility for its actions on anything is a forlorn hope because the worse things get the more the media enjoy the position of being at the forefront of the creation of that mayhem in order to justify their own existence
The media are in the funeral director business of creating their own news plague thus increasing their own importance at a time when not enough people are dying quickly enough
Great piece. And he, presumably, is one of the “brighter” ones.
an inconvenient truth for the UK is that the poorest areas used to be the historic centres of heavy industry.
Glasgow, Newcastle, Liverpool.
All used to be industrial towns and ports that generated most of the UKs wealth. What have UK governments done to replace the traditional heavy industry ?
Mining, ship building and steel fabrication all gone.
Don’t shoot the mesenger. Gary Robertson made the situation clear and cannot be blamed for the dross that Labour post on his Twiter feed.
He seems obsessed with the Queensferry Crossing, saying it cost 2 Billion pounds and implying this was money taken away from other areas. He is either really dim or very deceitful or, most probably, both.
It seems our media is populated by political activists who submit copy who call themselves journalists.
The 5 most truth deprived areas in Scotland are the papers, Labour, the Tories, the Lib Dems and the BBC.
Talking of the BBC, they’ve devoted 4 hours of coverage today of a service in Westminster Abbey to mark the centenary of the RAF. But they don’t take 4 minutes to report the Scots Tory dark money scandal.
Typical Labour, pretending…
…that they have all the answers.
…they need our votes to beat the Tories.
…to be surprised that folk won’t vote for them.
Numpties, the lot of them.
You’ve got to feel sorry for the left wing British nationalist. Who do you vote for? Where have all the decent progressive Britnats gone like Tony Benn? And if you think you are supporting Corbyn, all the Scottish Labour people are Blairites doing their damndest to undermine him. You are more likely to see Corbyn in power with an SNP coalition than with Scottish Labour MPs.
Doug Bryce. Glasgow, Newcastle, Liverpool, all discarded like last nights fish supper wrappers as soon as they no longer were of use to the centre.
Which is exactly what we need to do to the centre now it is no longer of use to us.
This is all very well, but with the crisis unfolding in Westminster and the serious ramifications for Scotland, not to mention the Tory dark money scandal and likely corruption of democracy, does anyone know if any vile SNP MSPs have eaten a cream bun which might have had quite a lot of calories? Over to Tom Gordon at the Herald…
Karmanaut. Don’t know if any cream buns have been taken but I think some squares of tablet may have been consumed. How very dare they.
According to his entry on Linkedin, he’s from Northern Ireland.
I don’t think Kelly reads or researches anything before he goes off at half cock. He just sees an opportunity and fires a Tweet off. He is rarely on target and rarely right. Kelly is, in a nutshell, why Labour are third in the polls. They have few people of ability, intellect and honesty and it shows, it painfully shows.
Yes Scotland is the most deprived country in the U.K. It is deprived of paying prescription charges student fees hospital car parking charges road tolls care for the elderly and a soon to be an non profit energy company etc., and it is all the fault of the SNP if we had stuck with labour we would NEVER have had these problems
This numptie is seriously aff hiz eggs. Read some of his stuff and it is total twaddle. For example he claimed this about the SG:-
“60,000 council jobs have been cut by the government since 2010.”
Now let me see – how many local council employees does the Scottish Government employ?
How many have they sacked?
That’ll be zero and zero so 0 minus 0 = 0.
Is this idiot for real?
Biog says “journo ” like he is like some sort of cool insider when in reality he is just another dim careerist .
With all these great credentials, why hasn’t Mr Whitehead got a job with BBC Shortbread?
Has he been Christmas Tree’d by MI5?
O/T
All the boys and their coach are out of the cave. Just 4 divers still to come out. Hope all goes well for them.
Well done to everyone who took part in the rescue.
I saw the article and some comments in the Herald, and couldn’t be bothered. It’s self-evident that since the SNP only came to power in Glasgow Council in 2016, in Holyrood in 2007, the data runs to 2011, and the Tories came to power in 2010 at Westminster, that it’s really quite meaningless to try to blame the SNP for it.
And seriously, even if people don’t pay it much attention, even they must surely see the dates of the research – 1971 to 2011. They’re not as thick as the MSM think they are.
Facts, truth, logic, intellect, history, reality, consistency, reason, honesty, morality … all suspended to boke up yet another SNPBaad hair ball.
Most folks now see it all for what it is, some are still influenced by it.
Desperate tactics from desperate individuals.
Sadly a fair percentage of our fellow countrymen believe the lies, one even called me brainwashed last night. Ive given up on them, they are too thick to understand they have been fed propaganda for centuries. Was in paper shop this morning, professional elderly couple on holiday (you can tell by the guy wearing shorts) in front of me bought the Herald, the Express and the Mail. My their heid must be full of mince.
OT
link to ukdefencejournal.org.uk
I did comment. Two comments. I ignore the spurious politics in the article, the author is anti-SNP, anti-Sturgeon, anti-independence, anti-GMB, anti-unions, and even anti-Labour – there was a really silly article about 3 Labour backbench MPs doing or not doing, errr, something, some months ago which was just totally political, nothing about defence except incidentally.
Love the first comments below the line about “groundhog day” and the UKDJ is obsessed. Apparently it might be hosted in Glasgow by the way, from a previous comment.
Labour, kept Scotland poor and begging for decades, they are a disgrace. We must keep reminding people how they sent back £1.5 BILLION to Westminster, saying, ‘nothing to spend it on in Scotland’. That was the day I stopped voting Labour.
‘The poor man of Europe’, men lucky to live past 56 in Glasgow, terrible housing, built by Labour, PFI leaving Scotland’s councils in massive debt for the foreseeable.
Labour had long enough to improve the lives of people in Scotland, to actually ensure there were opportunities for the people, real decent prospects, but no, they plunged the country into huge debt, and landed themselves ermine being paid £300 a day.
How dare they lay the blame on the SNP, for Labour decades of not giving one hoot about the people, or the country.
Scotland’s resources and have been plundered, and Labour allowed that to happen, indeed made it happen.
Just disgusting and they would do it again if they get anywhere near the levers of power in Scotland, we must not let that happen. Tories are no better of course.
Re; Bill Mclean@11.14am
Labour were not much better in England Bill, maybe the housing was a bit better, but the people of the north of Eng were factory fodder, keeping the wheels turning for the rich to get richer, low life expectancy as well. Just last year someone I know in NE England was forced to sign a new council contract as a care worker, 1/3 lower wages, same hours, Labour council. Council leader awarded a 20% pay rise. That’s how they do it, faux socialists, disagraceful.
The Herald article about the report was pretty straight by the way, though it uses the present tense for 2011 which was 7 years ago.
So the headline should be something like
“Glasgow was home to the 10 most deprived areas in the UK up to 2011” not “is”.
If you count up all the job losses the SNP are responsible for it amounts to more people than actually live in Scotland
And yet we keep voting them in, what’s wrong with us why can’t we see the evil SNP plan is to empty Scotland of people so the mad Sturgeons can fill it back up again with
*The Dark people* den den den deeen! wheesht whisper
How ironic, the day after Boris resigns as Foreign Secretary, because it suits his inflated notion of his own value and intelligence, Lord Carrington should die.
Here was a genuine Tory toff who, although in reality he could not have been blamed for what happened decided, since the Falklands had been invaded on his watch, he should resign.
I am old enough to remember when you could respect, if not actually like, some Tories. A whole different breed from today’s wastes of space like Boris, Davies, Gove, the Maybot, Fluffy and Colonel Yadaftie and the Dirty Dozen.
This is yet another example of how the corrupt british MSM continue(albeit unsuccessfully by evidence of falling circulations) to develop the concept that facts in themselves are not sexy enough and don’t sell newspapers only lies and innuendo do.
@Gaelstorm says: 10 July, 2018 at 11:34 am:
“Don’t shoot the mesenger. Gary Robertson made the situation clear and cannot be blamed for the dross that Labour post on his Twiter feed.”
Garry Robertson is arguably the worst and most biased of the Biased Broadcasting Company branch office staff in Scotland. What is more he rabidly imagines he is even handed.
The biggest fault with Gary, the BBC, and the SMSM in genera,l is that they do not seek to report the news they seek to create it.
Without any doubt BBC Radio Scotland are the absolutely worst example of a biased Westminster Establishment paid for propaganda unit in Britain if not the World.
In spite of popular belief the BBC are not funded by licence payers money but by a direct Westminster annual grant made from general taxation.
@Iain says: 10 July, 2018 at 12:24 pm:
“According to his entry on Linkedin, he’s from Northern Ireland.”
Ah! That clearly explains it all.
Mmm, unemployment figures seems to be just about the same for Scotland and the UK as a whole, at around 4.3% or something.
link to gov.scot
Those dastardly SNP are losing jobs in the UK by, errrr, thing. Probably Brexit.
IT’S ALL THEIR FAULT
Socrates MacSporran says:
I agree. Also, we must remember pre-Thatcher the Tories were part of the post WW2 consensus of essential industries remaining in public hands, state intervention to create new industry and jobs (Linwood, Bathgate etc), an NHS free of privatisation, education for all, etc etc..
The Tories of yesteryear were quite different to the swivel eyed über rights who want to sweep aside all regulation and state influence to allow private corporations a completely free hand.
I would never have dreamt of voting for them back in the day, but they weren’t the threat to civilised society they have become!
@Socrates MacSporran
Yes, the Conservative party used to be respectable. Even Thatcher was heads above May and the current breed. Rabble. Some decent MPs though, don’t know how they stick it.
It occurs to me that in around 10 years there’ll be a book titled “The Decline and Fall of Britain and the UK”, and the main argument will be that it was because of Farage and the BBC’s wall to wall promotion of Farage, UKIP, and anything of an anti-EU nature.
The conclusion will be something along the lines:
“It is ironic that the British Broadcasting Comapny, which you would imagine would safeguard the interests of Britain, was actually the main cause of its downfall”.
Socrates:
In the words of Alexei Sayle:
These Whitehead, Kelly, britnat media types are liars, only too eager to do down Glasgow and Scotland.
The Herald pic shown in James ‘sit down’ Kelly’s tweet is of Stevenson Street.
That is where the Orange Order marched last weekend.
That is where one of there followers allegedly assaulted a priest.
Ironic that this exact street is used by the Herald to illustrate their article on Scottish poverty and deprivation.
Thatcher unemployment. 20% NI (troubles), Scotland 15%. The only area under 10% was London S/E. Interest rates 17%. The equivalent of £Billions of Oil revenues were illegally and secretly taken from Scotland. Thatcher cut the Scottish budget and illegally kept it secret under the 0fficial Secrets Act. ‘This must be kept secret’ written on the documents. Forsyth and Lang her henchmen. The Barnett Formula introduced to take the equivalent of £Billions in Oil revenues to subsidise London S/E. Building Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. Every manufacturing, industrial plant closed in Scotland. The Scottish economy devastated.
Thatcher came to the Church of Scotland and said, ‘we the English people are generous to you Scots’. The Sermon on the Mound. A complete and utter lie. She was offshoring the Oil revenues and shoring up London S/E. illegally, secretly and criminally.
Thatcher sold the Press over to the right wing for support. Murdoch. Illegally breaking the parliamentary Code. Without a free and fair Press there is no democracy.
Scotland had to wait 20 years for Devolution. Despite voting for it. Many people in Scotland had to migrate to get a job and prosper.
The Civil war with the miners. Civil disorder. Starving people. Civil unrest. The Poll tax. Violent riots.
Thatcher caused the banking crash. Sold off utilities. Deregulated banking and demutualised the Building Societies owned by the members.
Today Scotland has Devolution and the SNP to stand up for Scotland. The Tory unionist Brexit catastrophe.
The trouble with modern day tories is a fantasy that money is all that counts allied by WMDs.
The WMD is the most worrying given that said last resort, honest guv, is ultimately under the control of an, albeit allied, foreign power. That results in a mindset that downplays the value of conventional forces. It also limits the number of genuine “heroes” coming from the common herd.
Money is all means a disproportionate amount of income comes from the City and a philosophy that allows manufacturing to go to the wall. The general health of the populace becomes less relevant. Oil just took that up a notch and the comparison to Sheep being more important than people is apt.
However there’s a link to both. At all levels the aim is to reduce manpower. The flaw in the logic is that there’s a minimum amount of infrastructure essential to defence. Power, water, rail and so on. Even allowing for competition at least one source must be readily available to the government should it come to war. Even the EU recognize that there are exceptions to it’s rules when it comes to national security.
If this does come to a leadership contest does anyone else think it’d add to the chaos if a vote of no confidence were to be called resulting in a General Election?
I am sure it has been said further up the thread,
Bruce Whitehead.
Too easy
O/T
Did anyone hear Nicola on BBC R4 Today programme, this morning about 8.35/8.40.
She was asked what she thought of the recent calamities at WM and the Chequers Deal- true to form she was in mid-sentnence when the interviewer interrupted and asked a different question. This happened a second time whereupon Nicola said … if you’ll let me answer the first question I’ll get to the next one’ … or words to that effect and from that moment she was virtually uninterruptible.
The woman interviewing was left actually listening to what Nicola was saying and it was quickly obvious that she realised Nicola is the only one talking sense. No mention of …’ you’re only voting for whatever is best for Indy ref 2′
Nicola, as usual, talked perfect sense and took no prisoners with her explanation.
A worthwhile outing.
Socrates macSporran
Lord Carrington the Tory Toff, as you rightly describe him, was a brave man as well as an honourable politician.
During the war he was a tank squadron commander in the Guards Armoured Division. My father was a sergeant in that division and recalled that the Ruperts, as as they called the officers, were all ex-Guardsmen and toffs and mostly brave. Many were killed in the battles in Normandy and Carrington was promoted to Major in the field due to loss of officers killed and wounded.
My father served with him right through to the end of the war and (although a Labour voter) always respected him.
I doubt if there are any like him in th current Tory ranks. I hope they prove me wrong some day but I’m not holding my breath.
Barnier is quoted as saying that 80% of the Brexit Deal has been agreed.
In Russian Roulette, 5 of the 6 chambers are safe.
orri says:
As the saying goes … they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
Take Brexit and their views on the EU …. trade, tariffs, payments, costs, profits … money, money, money …when did any Tory ever talk about the important things like human rights, justice, workers’ rights, freedom of movement, access to education across Europe, health & safety, food standards, drug certification, shared knowledge, environmental safeguards, quality marks etc etc.
Breeks says:
He refers to the Divorce Settlement, which is all that is required to be settled by October.
The Brits are getting ahead of themselves by getting carried away with future trading details. They are doing this to try to muddle the required solution for Ireland with an all UK trade arrangement. If they can, this means the backstop can be agreed because they know it won’t be needed. Perfidious? As always!
So the ten most deprived areas of the UK are in Glasgow, and the top twenty are all in Scotland.
But you have to wonder at the mind set of people who continue to stupidly support Labour, when they have witnessed or experienced in their communities so much of the poverty and deprivation it has presided over.
As above, here is Nicola’s interview.
link to twitter.com
Stu, fantastic investigating and wonderful analysis. They just dont like it up em! My fav bit of twitter tennis is when you kindly pointed out to him ” he wansnt very good at it” . Cheers Stu.
In 2011 the 10 worst areas were. The only reasonable way of stating that result. Even if that score has changed there’s no real meaning to be drawn as, unlikely as it seems, the whole of the UK might have improved or some of those areas might have without making it out of the bottom 10.
Funnily enough nothing was ever mentioned about the state of Govanhill being down to the then Labour administration. It’s almost as though some of that neglect was deliberate and targeted to embarrass Sturgeon and the SNP. Perhaps malice at the locals for not voting as their parents did. Should have understood “not genetically programmed to make political choices” really means. It’s a warning to Labour, or any party, not to presume on familial loyalty.
If you ever needed proof that buying a newspaper is a waste of money then there is no better example than this ‘journalist’. He has written for numerous publications, claims to be a producer, but has issues with understanding basic mathematical facts.
Don’t believe anything you read in a newspaper without verifying the facts elsewhere, some of the writers barely understand the subject they are writing about. And if they do understand there is a high chance the facts will be distorted to push the political stance they hold, at this point they change from journalist to propagandist.
When the Tories are about to lie they all use the same deceit
In respect to Norn Ireland they say : We don’t want too *See* a hard border or they’ll say There are no *Discussions* on a hard border or the totally meaningless phrase There is no *Question* about a hard border
All of these phrases mean *We’ll bide our time till everything’s died down then there’ll be the hard border we intended all the time because to hell with a few Paddies making a fuss about it we’ll sort them out quick style and who’s going to stop us*
Just in the same way they say Scotlands powers are only being held in order to maintain UK *Alignment*
In the words of our ancestors draw your sword and cleave them in two it saves very much time and you can get on with your day
Unfortunately we can’t do that anymore but why even bother talking to them when you already know that by their nature they’re about to lie to you
Diplomacy only works with the British when you have something to threaten them with, if you don’t have that something the British will bayonet you, it’s what the British have always done so why would they stop now
Scotland has to find something we have power over or something we can legally withold or something we can do that’ll affect Englands economy then we can negotiate
I like the sword thing but they just won’t let us do that anymore (sigh)
The likes of Whitehead and Kelly both incompetent buffoons, are welcomed by the media and the establishment because they’re useful idiots, against Scottish advancement.
I noted that Davidson was on RS at lunch time so I take it that she will be appearing on GMS and answer some questions from GR,dream on folks no chance.
Morgatron @ 3.48
I read the article above this morninig, but had to go on erands.
Just popped back for a coffee & thought I’ll read it again, then the thread.
Burst out laughing, even more so than first read.
FFS, that amount of thick takes a bit o beating.
This is why we contribute year on year & admire/support this channel.
Thank you Mr Campbell.
The petition has now reached 50,000. 🙂
link to change.org?
O/T
Rumour in WM that Tory 1922 Committee has received the needed 48 letters to trigger Leadership challenge but looks like May might just step down.
Rumour.
O/T
In an O/T comment at the end of last week I brought up the subject of the quango, Scottish Water, selling Scotlands water down the drain as had been done with the electricity supply industry when formed into a national grid.This has been proved as being no friend to the Scottish consumer, as would be a national grid for water.
No one appears to have given my comment a second thought.
However the day after the comment was published we were informed, via the MSM, that this quango were contemplating cutting the 25% single occupant discount down to 10%.
This, published at the advent of the summer holidays in Holyrood, should surely be causing alarm bells to ring. Why the need for this increase in income at this time you may well ask if some major development be not planned.
Just wanted to repost this from the previous thread, I think it gets to the point of how to deal most effectively with soft no’s, undecideds and switherers. “I’m not a political person…..” etc rather than going in guns blazing. And the final words about psychology over reason should be taken on board by anyone looking to switch others to Yes.
“Robert J. Sutherland says:
9 July, 2018 at 10:01 pm
Clapper57 @ 17:27,
Yes the “cult followers” are a hard nut to crack. Best not to do a head-on volley of facts, because they just deny and deflect on those.
Better to rattle their cage and leave them something to mull over:
“I’m not a political person, but that shower in London are completely incompetent. Taken two years to even work out what they want for Brexit, and still arguing with each other.”
“I’m not a political person, I just like to keep politicians within kicking distance. That useless lot in London are unkickable from here.”
“I’m not a political person, but it seems independence is inevitable now. Too many differences that can’t be bridged. It’s a pity, in a way, but you have to be a realist. It’ll make things easier just to go our separate ways…”
“I used to be no, but everybody I know has changed their mind because of Brexit. Let the English go if they want, but they should stop telling us what to do and leave us to make up our own minds…”
I’m sure others can think of suitable alternatives to engage their fear factor, and the better the nub of truth in it, the more it will gnaw at them afterwards. Plus engage the herd instinct by getting them to realise that unless they re-evaluate, they could end up on the wrong side of history.
This attritional process has to be psychological, not rational.”/end of quote.
Also btw that petition calling for a ban on orange walks in Glasgow is barrelling ahead, over 50,000 by now I think. Everyone who isn’t a bigot should make a point of signing it and get it to over 100,000 then lets hear them try to say that no one’s really bothered about orange walks.
Two Tory party Vice Chairs, Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley have just quit.
link to bbc.co.uk
Artyhetty at 1.25pm – I left England in 1997 so I was writing about Labour’s performance pre that date. They were much better than Labour here now but that was not saying much.
Ooh, look what Westminster’s flogging. I bet BBC Scotland won’t be reporting it.
link to uk.reuters.com
OT:
Edward Mountain has published his summer surgery tour of his Highlands & Islands constituency? in that bastion of newspapers, the P&J.
Interesting that no islands are involved. However, what time is he going to spend at each venue.
For example, on 26th July, at 3.30pm, he is to visit Alness, the 3rd largest centre of population north of Inverness, then at 4.30pm, to be in Muir of Ord, 25 mins by road (if your lucky).
Is he travelling by helicopter, has he a police escort, or is he going to take a chance & outwit the traffic police? Whichever means, he is obviously going to introduce himself, “Hi, I’m Edward Mountain, your non-constituency MSP. What can I do for you?”
“OK, we’ll see. Next please.”
All expenses paid? hotels, advertising, etc. Not bad for an also-ran on a ten days jolly. (T)Ruth Davidson’s black cash?
@Robert Peffers at 11.34am. . . . . “Gary Robertson, the BBC and the SMSM in General is they don’t Seek to report the news, they seek to create it .”
I remember way back , probably in the 90’s BBC Scotland radio presenters used to claim they “formed opinions”
Don’t ban Orange walks. Just make them walk in places such as parks or industrial estates at weekends where they will not be such a bloody nuisance. Make them pay for policing too.
Round and round the track at Ibrox would be ideal. It’s their real spiritual home after all.
England manager Gareth Southgate has suggested that the football team’s World Cup success can help heal the country after Brexit divisions.
Erm, that’ll be the country of England, then. Or Britain? England and Britain… same thing to you, eh Gareth?
@Referendum1707
It’s a funny time now. There are anti-Indy people looking at the shambles of Brexit and the Tories and genuinely taking stock. They might hate the SNP but are looking at options – like a YES though they don’t go that far.
It is difficult to know what to do, and in some cases at least it’s best to leave them to it. It’s also a good time I think to be very moderate with comments on media or blog threads, ignore barbs, just get to the issue itself and correct any errors, or put the other point of view, on the issue itself not the author.
The forum I mentioned earlier, I know the regulars, there are a couple mostly just come in for the SNP-bashing articles or some excuse to complain about naval shipbuilding done on the Clyde. But most say something along the lines that they’d be sorry to see Scotland go, we’re better together for defence. Which is fine, it’s a sensible personal opinion. When things go too far there’s a NO-voting “pal” of mine who comes in to defend Scotland and say that since we contribute to defence, we’re entitled to defence spending in Scotland.
I (mostly) tread carefully and try not to lose the heid!
@ Referendum1707 says @ 4.51pm
Yep Referendum1707, I second that….was remiss of me to not acknowledge substance of main part in Mr Sutherland’s response to me….certainly would take the wind out of their sails and I think it is a perfect strategy to deploy when encountering the intentionally uninformed brigade.So you are spot on in reposting his excellent method in dealing with those who choose to remain in denial as to the political and constitutional realities currently facing us.
Have a good evening
Also in previous thread …Petra ….was aware you were not targeting me in your comment but still felt it was appropriate for me to acknowledge your point in respect to language….as I am , on occasion, a culprit. But thank you, do appreciate your response.
Have a good evening
I must admit I cannot disguise the absolute and utter contempt and disgust I feel towards what passes for the liebour party
What a collection of FRAUDSTERS falsely claiming to protect workers and their rights , whilst simultaneously feathering their own nests and BETRAYING the very people who believed their lies , and yet i’m afraid the lies continue unabated and people still vote for these chancers , what in the name of sanity will it take for people to waken up and consign these lying parasites to oblivion
As many have said , at least you know that the tories are selfish self serving bastirts , but liebours faux socialism is contemptible and sickening
Brilliant as ever.
Have none of these Labour intellectuals wondered why the top 20 most deprived areas in the UK are in Scotland and the top 10 in Glasgow?
Upon my word, the answer is self-evident.
Yup, I can just see the NorthBritNat leaflets come the next GE (whichever kind), as they did here in Glasgow recently with their “SNP childcare cuts” hypocrisy.
In effect self-confessions of incompetence intended to flummox the clueless.
I think sometimes it would be worthwhile to have a “facts first” leafleting campaign following up on each and every such egregious distortion. Not on behalf of any political party, simply correcting the dodgiest claims, the most distorted graphs, etc., etc, for the sake of a healthy democracy and the public weal.
It just goes to show labour party = a bunch of fannys.
Re Labour apparently Caroline Flint , Tom Watson , Jess Philips and Stephen Kinnock have all come out in support of…….Theresa May….sure there are some more too who are of the same mind….Ian Austin , John Woodcock, John Mann etc etc
Now perhaps someone should tell Mr Leonard that Labour seem somewhat unwilling , en masse , to be the ‘next government’ in WM….cause it seems to me they, the Blairites, are deliberately trying to sabotage Corbyn’s chances of winning a GE…… because from what I can see they sure as Hell ain’t acting like any opposition I’ve ever seen.
This seems to be a pattern with the Blairites…when the Tories are down they, the Blairites, lay down arms and look the other way…so a warning to all of those Scots considering voting for Corbyn next GE….be aware…the knives are still out and will be utilised at the first opportune moment….thus the Corbyn ‘momentum’ will be no more and will never again be allowed to be revisited and thus tarnish the Red Tory territory ever again.
It seems to me that both Blue and Red Tories in Scotland are being exposed as the charlatans they truly are thanks to their respective HQ parties….as the branch offices of both parties try to maintain the high moral ground over the SNP against the obvious implosion of both of their HQ parties it does make one wonder who the Hell in Scotland is still voting for what must be the worst Tory and Labour political WM parties EVER in my lifetime…and I am sure before …..and there has been some Turkeys for sure.
Believe Ruth was on BBC Rep Scot and given an opportunity , thanks once again to sausage fingers, to spout her rehearsed party line rubbish…obvs on the proviso no mention of dark money mentioned…maybe it is about time a demonstration was organised outside PQ to highlight this anomaly as would seem only way one can get ANY attention/publicity ….worked for SNP at WM…perhaps we need to take the fight to them since the MSM seems determined to ignore all the crap that is currently being generated by yir Unionist political parties….just a thought.
Corbyn wants Brexit. Backs it. Labour Unionists caused the migration crisis in Europe. Then try and blame the EU for it. The Westminster unionists causeed the migration crisis. Then they try and use it to facilitate Brexit. Even more chaos. They are the most appalling greedy, useless, incompetent liars ever. The EU countries have to sort out their mess. Costing £Billions.
Westminster unionists have been bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Then blame others for the catastrophe they have caused. The are killing, maiming and starving millions of people. The Westminster crooks should be in jail. They complaint about migration but conveniently forget to mention who caused it. Them. They are detaining people for years without authority. Deporting people without authority. They are despicable beyond belief.
Lenny Hartley says:
10 July, 2018 at 1:19 pm
“Sadly a fair percentage of our fellow countrymen believe the lies, one even called me brainwashed last night.”
Not just a fair percentage but more than 50%.
The MSM led by Pravda GB will make sure it always remains more than 50%.
It’s interesting that you only now hear that areas in Glasgow are the most deprived part of the UK now that the SNP is in control of that cities council.
Never sullied myself by voting Labour,Conservative and Unionist or libdem,
once voted SSP on the assumption (pre Wings) that the List/Regional vote was a second preference vote,
the more you hear,read and see from Labour,if i had wasted all my life supporting and voting for such a bunch of self serving deadbeats i would be heartbroken at the waste/theft of my political life,
there would be no forgiveness ever.
It does not matter if you are Red, Blue, Green or Yellow.
As long as you vote YES next time.
For those not on twitter or simply missed it.
From Rev’s Feed
link to twitter.com
No pretence!
The great establishment control both RED & Blue parties.
Shurely shum mishtake ?
Shettleston was the sickest area in Europe at one time.
It also had one of its worst levels of unemployment.
That was just a few years ago when Labour was in Government
and in charge of Glasgow City Council.
I just exploded with laughter when Labour’s Margaret Curren
took offence when the people voted in an SNP Member of Parliament.
She accused the locals of forgetting what Labour had done for them? Lol Lol Lol
Just sums up Scot Kish Labour.
What exactly is it that Owen Jones has to do with Unions?
Clapper57
link to facebook.com
@Clydebuilt says: 10 July, 2018 at 5:35 pm:
” … I remember way back , probably in the 90’s BBC Scotland radio presenters used to claim they “formed opinions”.
Indeed so, Clydebuilt, and that BBC Scotland mindset goes back a long time before the 1990s. In fact the BBC was formed by the Westminster Establishment as the exclusive state broadcaster from the outset of public broadcasting in the World.
I’ve commented on this issue before on Wings and the history of public broadcasting proves the point. In the beginning all, “Wireless Communication”, was being done by amateurs among them Marconi’s Marconi who established the World’s first wireless communications company in Britain. However, the first public broadcasters were Amateur, (Hams).
Westminster very quickly realised its potential for government propaganda and the privately rub BBC became a Westminster controlled and funded state Broadcaster but has always been claimed to be totally independent – but he who pays the piper inevitably calls the tune.
Here is a cut & paste of the World’s first public wireless broadcast stations:-
The Bolded bits are mine and all I will add is …
… …
Aye!
Richt!
Since then the Westminster government has always funded the BBC with an agreed annual grant, (not from the licence fee which goes to HM Treasury), from general taxation.
He who pays the piper has always called the BBC’s tune. Thing is they, the BBC, have always spun the story that the licence payer funds the BBC but they never have done so.
Effijy @ 10.07
My late husband was a manager in Shettleston DHSS in the early 90s and he was in charge of the Social Fund budget which was huge.
He hated it with a vengeance – preferring to give the poorest a grant rather than a loan.
He hated describing himself as one of “Maggie’s henchmen.”
Magrit Curran maintained that she was born in Shettleston to garner votes. A bit of research discovered that she wasn’t even born north of the Clyde. Not only a neck of brass but a stranger to the truth.
Oops! Again. Cursed senility.
Posted this on the last thread by mistake.
Are there any stats on the ten most depraved areas of the UK?
I’m guessing they would all be in the Westminster area.
Brings up the question as to whether the state of Govanhill was incompetence or deliberate malice by Labour? If the later was it intended to embarrass Sturgeon and the locals acceptable collateral or revenge for voting the wrong way?
Branch office Temp Manager for Labour was on Misreporting Scotland, he says that Labour support being in the Customs Union and Partial Freedom of Movement. Can somebody tell the numbnuts that Europe wont allow cherry picking. FFS are they dense or just used to treated the electorate with contempt?
@ ronnie anderson says @ 10.28
Cheers.
Lenny Hartley
very soon we will know exactly what the brexit deal is and there will be no more room for cakeism from any unionists.
tick tock, not long now
Thanks for quashing MSM guff once again Stu. Forty years (plus) of Labour controlled Councils and Tory austerity. Maybe Gary Robertson / the BBC will follow up with a report relating to how resource rich Scotland has been robbed blind by Unionist politicians leaving many of its inhabitants living in abject poverty. However not holding my breath!
Whilst it looks as though the Tories are on a downward spiral it concerns me that many individuals, in particular the younger generation, have no idea how toxic the Labour Party have been for Scotland and may support them if another GE is called for. It would seem that some think that Corbyn is the modern day Messiah and that he’ll do things differently from his predecessors Blair and Brown (Iraq invasion, rise in terrorism, PFI, gold sold for peanuts, pension pots robbed of billions, 6000 sq mls of Scottish seas / 7 oil fields handed over to Westminster etc, etc). Even if we did take on board that he is ”different”, no warmonger, he’s come across as a spineless hypocrite and one that would always put England first: And as Clapper has pointed out previously how long would he last in office with the Blairites baying for blood?
These political parties, Tory and Labour, have been ruling the roost for decades and have proven over and over again, without fail, that they have been detrimental to the well-being of the Scots. In fact, imo, if it wasn’t for the SNP our country would be on its knees by now. I reckon from now on we should be focusing on the Labour party once again pointing out to newcomers to the site what they stand for. The damage that they’ve done.
The other bugbear, imo, is the pro / anti-EU divide in Scotland and I would love to see someone like Jim Sillars contribute an article which we could consider and debate. Have someone explain how we’d get our Independence following Brexit. Who we’d trade with? The US? Implications for our NHS and so on.
……………………………….
Did anyone see the celebration of the RAF Centenary today?
Ten o’clock ITV news presenter commenced with: ”Celebrating England’s proud national heritage.”
So no Scots, Welsh or Irish pilots? No Scots working in the aerospace industry? Any mention that it was a Scot who was the founding father? And they wonder why we’re scunnered!
link to rafmuseum.org.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
Robert Peffers says:
Since then the Westminster government has always funded the BBC with an agreed annual grant, (not from the licence fee which goes to HM Treasury), from general taxation.
He who pays the piper has always called the BBC’s tune. Thing is they, the BBC, have always spun the story that the licence payer funds the BBC but they never have done so.
—————————-
you have highlighted this point before but i still think this is the best and important contribution to the indy argument you have made.
thanks for that, i will use this argument whenever the bbc is mentioned.
your argument is another very important nail in the bbc’s coffin.
i dont always agree with you, but credit is due
tx
This Bruce Whitehead guy seems a right diddy. Only other diddies could vote for this diddy. Owen Jones you are also a diddy to endorse this guy.
Britnat journalists in Scotland are not just propaganda writers but they are diddies as well. Do not buy their newspapers unless you like to pay to read a lot of lies written by complete diddies.
O/T
Following on from the last post.
‘City freedom for the RAF’s real First of the Few.’
”..THE question should by why was this Honour not bestowed before?
For in the fight against Hitler’s Nazis, 603 Squadron more than distinguished itself, becoming the first RAF squadron to shoot down a German bomber and then going on to perform outstandingly in the Battle of Britain….
BUT WASN’T THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN FOUGHT OVER KENT AND LONDON?
YES, but as a tried-and-tested unit with successes already recorded, 603 went south and was deployed to RAF Hornchurch to take part in the Battle of Britain.
To its immense credit, 603 became the leading scoring squadron of the entire battle, but 13 pilots lost their lives in the conflict.
One 603 “ace” George Carbury shot down five German planes in one day….”
link to thenational.scot
Be aware…
There is no Wings fuck filter here like…
Aye thank u for THAT alone boss.
Fuck is good.
Fuck is essential.
Fuck is…
Liz g & K1 kens.
FUCK!
Love it, Love it, Love it, big smiley, gotta WOH post on your twitter, cheers ib.
CUNT, there ye go… aye did it.
SO proud of moi, whom cunt cares…?
Hey Petra, get with it new Winger, respecto fuckoh.
Me n Liz g like go waaaaaay back.
New smoke it, streuth davidson is a CUNT.
Ahm breaking barriers…i
Is that cool like…
Theresa May is not a cant…
She is a CUNT Petra.
Looking forward to getting HOME XXX.
BIG SCOTLAND.
Westminster is a CUNT.
Agreed aye…
Choose ur definition of what a CUNT is?
Empowered as ever.
Happy fuck.
Happy cunt.
Fuck.
Hoops, didnae mean to post on the mainframe thread… several furlongs to go like… must’ve been the alcoholic drugs… ahm easin’ on the reins, allegedly…
Mibbies aye, mibbies aye…
Gaun back tae heads up.
Hi WOS..
Always and ALL capitals.
Bar Linen.
Winged bar.
Love WOS.
Petra at 12.05
The best way to deal with the remnants of the Labour Party in Scotland is to do the job they are supposed to be doing in opposing this Tory austerity regime -and welcome them to join us. And watch as they abstain or back the Tories (against us).
While the MSM make hay with the ”Glasgow poverty” story, in the main created by the Labour Party, Gordie Broon’s wife is ”making hay” for her charity.
”….. All of the money raised will go to Mrs Brown’s charity Theirworld, which works to bring better health and education to the world’s most vulnerable children…..”
link to europebreakingnews.net
……………………………
And while I’m on a roll with wha’s like us!
”Back in the Day: Meet the father of modern-day firefighting.”
…… James Braidwood born in Edinburgh …..
link to thenational.scot
……………………………
Peek a boo Wingers.
Aye can see you Wingers…
Devo Vevo knows.
Ahm HOMEward bound…
Whom has awe ra raw talent… SCOTLAND like.
We are the creators.
Where’s awe ra talent…?
Smokey time…
OT but, watching numerous videos of Jim Sillars, I have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a Cuckoo in the nest.
Agree or not?
@ Dave McEwan Hill says at 12:28 am … ”Petra … The best way to deal with the remnants of the Labour Party in Scotland is to do the job they are supposed to be doing in opposing this Tory austerity regime – and welcome them to join us. And watch as they abstain or back the Tories (against us).”
Exactly Dave and make sure that their actions (or inaction) are reported on here.
I also see that the Daily Record seems to be bucking up this weather with, for example, Kezia Dugdale’s ”Labour must step up to the plate and end Brexit madness after Tory resignations.”
We’ll see what comes from that! EH?
Another one that wants Independence as long as it is the vision that he wants!
@ Jim says at 12:45 am … ”OT but, watching numerous videos of Jim Sillars, I have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a Cuckoo in the nest. Agree or not?”
I reckon he IS a cuckoo in the nest Jim or is just plain cuckoo now, however I’d like to hear what he has to say – not just snippets here and there. You know a question and answer type of situation whereby he’s got to elaborate on how on earth we’d ever get our Independence when the Tories (because I doubt Labour will win any GE) have total control. The power to totally decimate us and so on.
@Petra
I agree, (Cuckoo that is), but, he has given ample videos, so the evidence is out there!
Just another Blue Labour “Gravy Train” drain on the working people.
Is Bruce Whitehead an adult?
Asking on behalf of my 9 year old cat.
Petra @ 12:46 am
You mentioned a being called “Kezia Dugdale”.
Is it real or just a plagiarised creation of Jakey “Empire” Rowling?
link to youtube.com
If you’re into an independent Scotland you know…
Still my favourite song of the now.
Do not look until aye signal…
Genius.
Devo.
The way is what we want… (fucking amazing lyrics.)
Look at loch awe that talent. 😉
Follow the cube… it is important.
Peek-a-boo.
Aye can SO see you like you, aye know what you like to do like.
Really love this song…
Do you…?
Turn it up to Devo Max, ahhhhhh hahahahaha!
Replay:
link to youtube.com
Aye can still see you like…
What would U like me to do, to you…?
@Cactus
Petra is no newcomer, she’s been posting since at least 2015.
Mornin’ good Winger yesindyref2 ~
I know and I like Petra’s postings.
Petra is for iScotland.
Just like us xx.
Love.
Scotland.
Summer.
2018.
Hi.
The bitterness of the Labour Party stems from decades of sinecure. I will never forget my first votes (SNP) coincidentally as they began to rise as a political force.
My particular ward voted in a very popular local SNP candidate and it was obvious the local councillors and Labour activists were conducting their own ‘Exit Poll’ (better termed ‘Entrance Poll’) The sneers, twisted visages and hostility to the voters (including myself) was indelibly etched on my mind. The prime reason was the actual verbal abuse of voters as they left. In hindsight I wondered how they knew.
Certainly those who proffered a response of the SNP candidates name, in response to “Who ye voting for” were met with abuse and risibly “after all we’ve done for you! We’ll never forget this!” But so to was invective hurled at those who exited. Including those who I entered with who didn’t engage. Perhaps they already knew the general voting intention and it was a blanket rage directed at the populace regardless.
I digress, because my point is that I have seen similar behaviour in a professional capacity when I was contracted into many long established businesses with a similar sinecure of operation (those where generations of families had been employed and vacancies were ‘dead mens shoes’) Suddenly, in the modern era, such businesses were being liquidated, merged with ensuing redundancies, outright take-overs, asset stripping and extirpation.
Though I have been witness to many redundancy situations (and been on the receiving end myself) no-one does virulent anger, betrayal, bitterness and tears like the sinecured and that, precisely, encapsulates Labour in Scotland.
I will also add that I have never personally witnessed anything other than retrenchment of peoples views in those I still know affected by such layoffs in professional life. They remain bitter and more so now, even after decades of being forced to adapt and come to terms with the brave new dawn of employment struggles and its ephemeral nature. That their fellow men and women, neighbours and friends had long preceeding experience of general redundancies in un-sinecured employment does not register with them. They remain the ‘Especially Betrayed’
There is therefore no redemption for the old guard of Labour in Scotland I’m afraid. They will take their bitterness to the grave. They will always despise the SNP and all its works for good or ill. They will dash all principles, their very souls and Scotland itself upon the rock of revenge – to the very extent that Tories will be natural allies – For is it not said : The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Hey Scotland, are you ready to be free and to be a normal country like…
2 bells.
Aye.
SO, here we are and there we awe were like…
Do not give a FUCK like, and thank U like.
Ur stage readers…
Go comment..
Now is the time for Scotland.
Aye see you in 3D.
Peekaboo.
Ahhhhh ha ha ha.. peekaboo.
Ah feel ye Scotland, thx mwah xx.
Dance on wiki Wednesday ’17
Glasgow is home to the 10 most deprived areas in the UK is it? Well clearly three centuries of London rule hasn’t gone too well. Maybe we should try something new. Independence anyone?
I also like the postings of user ‘Rock’.
Observant and of neutral opinion.
Needed to be said.
Rock may know…
Try me W’s.
Cheers.
Bring in the sting in the bee like he he.
Aye love Scotland.
What the fuck just happened like there hehe…
Party time Scotland.
iSoon.
O/T.
Sad to say My wee friend Mitch Kilbride passed away at 12.30am . Mitch was a stalwart in the Independence movement & was widely respected by the many people we met on our travels throughout Scotland .
Peacefully at rest .
At 12-30
A strong man Smiled his last Smile today
Many of you knew him,But those that Never
Missed out on a Fantastic Experience,
He was a Wiley aul bugger, A Reporter
In his Heyday, And No Stranger to those
In the Indy Movement, Respected by all
Who met and Knew Him, had a Wicked Grin
And a Fierce Temper When Riled,
A Passionate Fisherman And Outdoor Freak
Met him almost 30 Years ago And hit it
Off right away, He was that kind of Guy,
Ronnie Was another of His Dearest Friends,
And like myself Along with Mandi Martin
David And Helen We were With him the
2And a Half years Since he was First
Diagnosed,He neer Stopped Fighting And
Lived Each day He and Ronnie Traveled
All over Scotland in the Pursuit of Indy.
That Was how Much his Country Meant to Him,
We will Continue To fight Knowing he
Will Still be Fighting along with us
Never Forgotten
Rest in Peace
Mitch Kilbride
?????????????????????
In memory of my dear Friend
Mitch kilbride
In memory of my dear Friend
Mitch kilbride
Death take me
I Fear you not
Because when you do
Much trouble you have got
You think that you
Can bring me fear
Well i survived
The child’s tear
That is a pain
No parent should see
So all you did
Was set me free
I Am a Scot
Or did you forget
You wont hold me
In your Death filled net
Many Have tried
All have failed
As my life Blood
Has freely sailed
Peace it is mine
You never had a chance
And no Scot Ever
Will do the Devil’s Dance
Bill Glen
* SAOR ALBA *
At 12-30
A strong man Smiled his last Smile today
Many of you knew him,But those that Never
Missed out on a Fantastic Experience,
He was a Wiley aul bugger, A Reporter
In his Heyday, And No Stranger to those
In the Indy Movement, Respected by all
Who met and Knew Him, had a Wicked Grin
And a Fierce Temper When Riled,
A Passionate Fisherman And Outdoor Freak
Met him almost 30 Years ago And hit it
Off right away, He was that kind of Guy,
Ronnie Was another of His Dearest Friends,
And like myself Along with Mandi Martin
David And Helen We were With him the
2And a Half years Since he was First
Diagnosed,He neer Stopped Fighting And
Lived Each day He and Ronnie Traveled
All over Scotland in the Pursuit of Indy.
That Was how Much his Country Meant to Him,
We will Continue To fight Knowing he
Will Still be Fighting along with us
Never Forgotten
Rest in Peace
Mitch Kilbride
?????????????????????
In memory of my dear Friend
Mitch kilbride
In memory of my dear Friend
Mitch kilbride
Death take me
I Fear you not
Because when you do
Much trouble you have got
You think that you
Can bring me fear
Well i survived
The child’s tear
That is a pain
No parent should see
So all you did
Was set me free
I Am a Scot
Or did you forget
You wont hold me
In your Death filled net
Many Have tried
All have failed
As my life Blood
Has freely sailed
Peace it is mine
You never had a chance
And no Scot Ever
Will do the Devil’s Dance
Bill Glen
A moving tribute Ronnie.
Good morning all. Peter A. Bell in fine fettle, delivering another salient broadside on a theme not unlike one I touched upon the other evening:
link to peterabell.blog
@Petra
I had a lot of time for Jim Sillars during indyref, especially his take on currency which coincided with mine.
His idea about waiting until brexit is sorted, well, when will that be? Probably long after the demise of holyrood. He comes across as very aggressive and bitter in his criticism of the SNP and of course the Britnats lap it up.
It’s strange, I thought the prospect of iscotland out of the EU (probably inevitable) but within the SM would have been acceptable given his passivity in 2014.
Here’s an interview he did with Mark McNaught a while back..
link to livestream.com
Robert J. Sutherland says:
11 July, 2018 at 6:32 am
Good morning all. Peter A. Bell in fine fettle, delivering another salient broadside on a theme not unlike one I touched upon the other evening:
[…] it doesn’t matter how shining bright Brexit turns out to be, or even that it doesn’t happen…
Much sense in what he says, but I would make one important correction. The actuality of Brexit very much does matter. I know it’s not what Peter Bell is meaning to imply, but Brexit isn’t just a lifestyle choice. After Brexit, the UK, at least in European eyes, will be an economic pariah. Brexit is the equivalent of a shop keeper telling his customers to “f” off, then attempting to woo them back with crazy discounts. It’s not going to work for one thing, but the damage to Scotland’s economy will be profound, far reaching and long lasting.
Europe hasn’t damaged the Scottish economy, but Westminster undeniably very much has. If that statement wasn’t true, then ask yourself why the BritNats NEED to keep us brainwashed with their BBC propaganda.
I agree 100% that our subjugation over Brexit is indeed wholly unacceptable and must be made to fail, but even in jest, let us not diminish the absolute mindless stupidity and reckless self harm of Brexit itself.
There is no up side to Brexit. Even the economic vultures poised to profit from the wholesale carnage of the UK’s economic repositioning will be feasting on tainted meat. Factories won’t just close to be bought over and reinvented. Factories will close, but close permanently because their product markets will also be erased.
Ronnie.
A very moving tribute to your and independence friend Mitch Kilbride. I too dont want another day to pass where our friends and family and strangers do not see our country free.
Ronnie , so sorry to hear that Mitch has died . A very moving tribute to him indeed.
Britain can’t afford Brexit. The illegal wars causing migration into Europe caused by the Westminster lunatics. Then they use the migration caused by their illegal wars to facilitate Brexit. A double rammy of complete and utter incompetent. They are sanctioning and killing millions at home and abroad, Most of them should be put in jail. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Complete and utter lies not fit for public service. Keeping their criminal acts secret under the Official Secrets Act. Trns in debt because of their illegal actions. Breaking International Law. Tax haven and evasion. Not enforcing the Law.
In the 11WW 1/2million of died in Britain, US and France. 26Million Russians died saving the West. The Russian economy was devastated. US/UK and France have been illegally bombing the world to bits ever since. The RAF flying over London celebrated by the Royals. Celebrating illegal wars and the deaths of millions. Shameless. To keep their privileged position. Charles income £20Million, and the rest, pays £2Million in tax. Total bill £400Million. The Royal Tories responsible for foodbanks and increased mental health problems. Doing the Tories dirty work when they are supposed to be impartial and keep out of politics. Not interfering in political matters but unbiased.
Since 1990’s Gorbachev and Putin et al. 150Million people have been released to democracy and freedom. The Russian (USSR) population has halved. 150Million pop. It was 300million before (on par with the US). Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine other eastern bloc countries have achieved self determination, freedom and democracy. Often helped by the EU authorities . German unification etc,.
Russia has become more prosperous and poverty has declined. 15% in Russia (pro rata) Putin is extremely popular in Russia 80% rated because of an improved economy. Putin supported Scottish Independence and rejected Cameron’s lies and attempted manipulation.
The Westminster unionists are illegally sanctioning and killing people in Britain. Migrants and asylum seekers are treated appallingly locked up for years without reason. Detained without authority. Deported British citizens with no rights, May and her associates are criminals. They are trying to destroy the world economy so they can line their pockets. Coarse, cruel, nasty people of low intellect. They are wasting public money with no authority and starving people to death.
The Orange Lodge Marches should be banned. It is against the Law for secretive, exclusive societies to take over the streets. The authorities are breaking the Law condoning this behaviour. These organisations are not open to all The are not inclusive but racist, bigoted, misogynists and discriminatory, Based on bias and religious belief. They can blackball people without explanation and act as a quasi secret organisation. Doing each other favours not open to all.
Why are such discriminatory bodies allowed to take over and roam the streets supported by public money. That is against the Law and illegal. If they want to parade around they should do it in private land and pay for the expense. Not expect others to support illegal organisation that do not obey the Law and act as through they are above the Law. The UK Law they propose to support. Hypocrites.
The BBC is funded £3.7Billion by Westminster Gov. Half of it goes on supporting real estate. Overfunded prima donna biased presenters. Most of whom should have been retired years ago. Public servants paid by the public purse should retire at the official retirement age. (extension to 70?) . Like everyone else.
The Dugdale defamation case starts. £75,000 for the jungle caper. To purchase a house.
Jim Sillars behaviour certainly does not support Independence.
Peter Bell’s blog on Brexit and the Indy prevaricators is timely.
We can’t wait until the last moment on Brexit, for the pro-Ind arguments to take hold the framing has to be done in plenty of time. That’s what the Yes movement should be doing full tilt. So it is in the minds of the voters well ahead of the voting.
It’s important because there is a ‘logical’ conclusion to where Westminster’s unionist framing of Scotland’s position. It’s an argument many in Scotland have accepted.
That it is England’s money that mainly pays for Scotland. The ‘we can’t pay for ourselves’ mindset is deep in Scotland as is ‘it is our taxes that pay for all you have’ in England.
The logical conclusion from this is that either Scotland should be wholly run from Westminster or that the Gov in Holyrood should be changed to represent the Gov in Westminster each time there is a GE. In fact to should become a regional representative administration of the Party in power.
Equally there should be a very senior post in each Council to represent the Party in Westminster. The CEO should be a “colonial Officer’ to see that the wishes of the Central Government are the driving force for Council decisions.
It’s reasonable and logical.
There is to be no separate immigration policy for Scotland because 38% of British people in Scotland voted for Brexit thus opposing immigration Pete Wishart has been told by the UK Guv, Pete Wishart argued that 62% of Scots voted against Brexit
If you look at that statement again you’ll notice when Pete Wishart talked about Scotland the UK only mentioned British people IN Scotland and once again the people who came in second get to win if they’re considered British
So if you’re British you win when you win and you win when you lose, also you’re only considered British if you vote WITH the Tories, if you don’t vote Tory the Tories will protect you by ignoring what you want and doing what’s good for you because you’re obviously not intelligent enough to know better
My apologies to Mr and Mrs ordinary English folk but you’ve got too many people down there very low on the evolutionary chain and Scotland’s going to have to cut you off for our own safety
My head is exploding.GMS once again demanding we support England.
Gie it a rest BBC.
link to mobile.twitter.com
Ha ha ha.
“Oi! Don’t you dare ask Angela Merkel for her opinion!!!” You are British Press and you belong to me!!!
Surprised Theresa’s eyes don’t light up like Louis Cypher’s in Angelheart.
When have Labour supporters and politicians ever based announcements on facts?
The campaign is tried and tested….” It was somebody else to blame, we would do it better”
Of course they only reverted to this when people stopped voting for them. Prior to this the did not have to do anything to win elections…it was their RIGHT…they were the Labour Party.
They have one strong hold left…the media. They and the Tories receive full support from the MSM to promote the SNPbad narrative. It is simply another example of the unity of effort to damage the Independence movement.
Anyone tempted to trust Labour at Westminster, Holyrood or on their local council has failed to observe the previous track record of these cretins.
If the best arguement for the future of Scotland is to accept turns each for the the Red Tories being a bit better than the Blue Tories at Westminster in shaping our future then it is time to accept our fate and the fate of future generations.
Only ONE solution exists for Scotland and it does not involve Westminster.
Ken500 says:
Sillars is typical of many on the left – fighting the good fight in an ideological sound manner, and being seen to so do, is much more important than actually achieving anything!
Martyrdom to their noble cause is the motivation, not actually winning.
I don’t know why John Beattie is seeking to hear from English people living in Scotland on who they are supporting at some football match to-night when the bulk of the invited contributors to GMS and Radio Scotland programmes have English accents.
It’s an interesting point about “failing to use the powers…” because, as someone who is old enough to have voted for devolution I seem to remember there were TWO questions on the ballot.
The second question was about TAX RAISING POWERS. So, from day one the parliament, or executive as Labour name it then, had powers to raise taxes.
It was derided as ‘The Tartan Tax’ and, by a strange coincidence I worked for IR (Inland Revenue – now HMRC) when they were doing a lot of work on being able to tell which taspayers were eligible to pay such a tax should it be levied.
Prior to SNP forming a minority government Labour and the Liberal Democrats held power. They had the ability to raise taxes, albeit in a different manner, and chose to NEVER USE that power. Not once.
But NOW they want to lecture others.
But the gent on Twitter, being a journalist, politician and no doubt intelligent, would KNOW all of this.
I see incidences of this daily, from Labour, LibDem and Tory. They KNOW the facts but choose to misrepresent or flat out LIE to get their lot an ‘extra point’
Like many, it was this sort of behaviour in the Scottish Parliament that started turning me away from Labour.
The Scottish Parliament was DESIGNED to be co-operative and prevent exactly this. There are MANY areas where supporters of Labour and SNP would easily be in agreement. However, the Labour leaders CHOSE an adversarial path, one which lead them STRAIGHT out of office.
They thought that the Scottish public would vote Labour no matter what, that they would ‘do what they were told’ and in Dennis Skinner’s words, “vote for a monkey in a Labour rosette” They underestimated our political intelligence…
The Scottish parliament WAS indeed designed to be co-operative but only if the SNP weren’t in it, and it’s still co-operative but just NOT with the SNP
If you’re SNP then you’re just NOT British and therefore not wanted because you weren’t supposed to be in the English Branch of the Scottish Tory parliament
All three of the Scottish Tory parties are very angry about all this democracy thing where people vote the way they want, Holyrood wasn’t supposed to be this way
@Rev
Calm down!
I’d say Wings readers know you’re not homophobic, just stay mum till the case is heard so as not to prejudice anything.
The closed Herald article is poor.
Confirmed.
May is toast.
link to politicalite.com
In these heady days of English football nationalism the Union flag is often displayed as a symbol of anglo national pride. Point out that that flag represents, supposedly represents, the United Kingdom and the response is that’s England, innit?
In their ‘inaccuracy’ they are closer to the de facto situation than rheumy eyed North British Unionists might be prepared to acknowledge.
Sometimes it comes down to simple basic things. Perception is all.
@iain mhor @0156: an excellent description of the BLiS______d mind-set, to the extent its members have a mind.
Their hatred, bitterness and boundless sense of entitlement can be quite a shock when you encounter it for the first time but they are more to be pitied than anything else and it was a great motivator for me to keep canvassing, not something I naturally enjoy. They betrayed the most vulnerable and powerless in society while pretending to defend them, perpetuating their poverty for their own ends.
Mags Curran (still strangely popular on Radio Shortbread for her trenchant apercus) typifies the whole sorry lot of them, and good riddance.
Just a couple of Brexitie things to share :
Boris tells porkies even in his resignation letter :
link to kittysjones.wordpress.com
The NYT seems to have a very clear picture of how we got to where we’re at :
link to nytimes.com
Scotty dog @ 6.36
Watched that interview with Jim Sillars again. He comes across, to me, as arrogant with a sense of (Labour) entitlement and everybody’s wrang but me.
He should shut the f*** up.
I see the Herald shoehorned Stu into the SNP in that report on his sueing Ms/Mr Dugdale.
The paragraph commencing “The SNP also….” is an acceptance that Wings and SNP are one and the same. Wow Stu; are you accepting that slur on your neutrality or your former Libdem voting record?
@Proud Cybernat
“May is toast”
I hope very much that will be the case.
As a rider to my earlier post despite the officialese designation United Kingdom of Great Britain etc most vernacular usage outside the UK employs an equivalent of England eg Igirisu, Angliya, Angleterre etc as standard mode of reference.
The international, political perception of Scotland as some region of northern England is the uncomfortable reality. It often resists reasoned argument to the contrary. There are occasional exceptions proving the rule but on the world street we are England’s property. The anglophile Scandinavian states I reckon to be the most ‘stubborn’ whereas southern Europeans and Mid Easterners are more atuned to ethno-cultural nuance.
It’s a stupid bore that only a Scottish passport will fix.
The comments below the May Toast article are very interesting. England really is going through an existential crisis. It’s easy (and fun) to laugh, but it only now seems to be dawning on them that their empire is largely gone and queen Victoria is dead. And they don’t understand it.
Warning, a long post.
The white paper to be published tomorrow is the opening offer from the UK government to they EU. They know that it won’t be accepted in it’s entirety and that further concessions will have to be made if a deal is to be done.
However, yesterday in New York, Michael Barnier said
“After 12 months of negotiations we have agreed on 80% of the negotiations.” He added that he was determined to negotiate a deal on the remaining 20%.
link to archive.fo
The Chequers offer looks like something that could be negotiated along the lines of the Swiss/EU agreements which are a series of Bilateral Agreements individually negotiated. That’s why Switzerland is not in the EEA nor does it have a Customs Union.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Free movement is allowed with special conditions, May also plans to allow EU workers limited freedom of movement, something they have called a “mobility framework”:
When it comes to services, the Swiss crucially do not come under the supervision of the EU banking regulator or EU laws. May looks like wanting something similar so has excluded services altogether from any deal.
The real sticky point though could be customs, the Swiss are not in a Customs Union with the EU and even though they have free movement of goods which means no difference in tariffs and regulations on goods are fully aligned.
The Swiss are also not in the EU VAT regime which means that there must be a hard border, there is a very good explanation in the FT as to how the Swiss/EU border operates.
link to archive.fo
Maybe then this is where the UK are aiming, of course the exact same model would do nothing for the NI border and Switzerland has to pay a large contribution every year to the EU for access which wouldn’t go down well with Brexiteers.
The Tories will continue fighting like ferrets in a sack over this so crashing out with no deal is still a big possibility.
Re. James ‘sit down’ Kelly, Stevenson Street, the Orange Order marched last weekend and the Herald article on Scottish poverty and deprivation in post-Thatcher, pre-Brexit Britain.
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
Understanding Poverty From Multiple Social Science Perspectives
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org
Power Relations, Inequality and Poverty
A Concept Paper for Empowerment Team, Poverty Reduction Group
World Bank
link to siteresources.worldbank.org
#hardcore #feminist standpoint #post-colonial theology
I know its O/T but I’m positive that many Wingers will be happy to know that the Leader of the NTS and all round Unionist Neil Oliver will be appearing at the Theatre Royal in Glasgow on Nov 20th at 7.30pm.
He is giving a talk on “the Story of The British Isles”. The accompanying blurb under his photo reads, “Neil was born to love Great Britain”.
So if anybody is interested (and I’m sure there are many) you had better get your tickets now, for its sure to be a sell-out.
Given the UK Government apparently has no concern of Brexit’s consequences for the vast majority, or legal requirements of the Brexit process, and given they appear to have no plan of action, would it not be unreasonable to call for a vote of no-confidence. Are British Labour that desperate to follow Anglo-American practice? That won’t end well for anyone but the wealthy, especially not women.
Can BLiS___d not leave British nationalism where it belongs, in the pages of colonial history. Silly question, their strings are pulled from London, innit.
link to cambridge.org
Poverty in the UK: the need for a gender perspective
link to wbg.org.uk
Women and Poverty – A Human Rights Approach
link to ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk
Thepnr @ 11:08,
I believe that a deal along the lines you suggest is on the way.
Due appreciation to mike cassidy in the preceding thread with links to recent articles by Patrick Macguire in The New Statesman:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
who got to the nub of what’s really happening. The negotiation is now in the hands of UK civil servants, professionals who know what they are doing, and know what the EU27 will likely accept.
May & Co. will (have to) concede some stuff, and exactly what that is we will eventually find out, but a deal will happen because it has to. Too many Tory-friendly business interests are at stake, and they have spoken soft but clear. Hence the departure of some Leaver hardliners. It’s make-or-break for them now.
The only way this might flip is if there is a sufficient rebellion among the Tory rank-and-file to unseat May. I reckon the MPs don’t have the bottle for it (a UKGE would likely ensue) but there’s no accounting for Tory stupidity, especially over Europe.
@Robert J. Sutherland
I see the Brexiteer rebels have tabled amendments to the upcoming Customs/Trade Bill and one of them is for the UK to have a separate VAT regime from the EU.
This is something the Swiss already have in their agreement with the EU as I mentioned in the post above.
It’s the main reason for the hard border though, well worth reading the link to the FT article about the EU/Swiss border. It would take years before the UK could replicate that but it would be done.
All getting very interesting now.
If the UK did negotiatate a similar deal to Switzerland then Theresa May could truthfully say that the UK has left te Single Market and the Customs Union and has been true to her word.
This has been the goal for a long time and only a change of government can stop it now I think. Not sure where it leaves the Scottish 2nd referendum but I’m sure we too will have a plan for an outcome like this.
Croatia 0 poms 1 3mins gone. FFS
Kangaroo – git yurr heid oot, ah yoan hauf-ton Saut-Waatturr Croacahdile’s mooth.
Endit fine, jist fine.