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The people’s champion

Posted on June 17, 2014 by

We know only a few of you sit through these long video clips, but for the benefit of those who do this is a slightly unusual debate organised by the Prospect trade union and chaired by Magnus Gardham of the Herald, which took place at the union’s conference in Glasgow last month and saw Anas Sarwar and Nicola Sturgeon quizzed on some quite specific topics by various representatives of civic Scotland.

Readers can, as ever, come to their own conclusions as to which of the two gave the most convincing and honest answers, but one line from early on did leap out at us.

It came before the Q&A section, in the bit where the participants were giving their short opening speeches. 13 minutes in, Anas Sarwar tried a line often used by Labour:

“Actually constitutional politics change nobody’s life – apart from the politician themselves, who gets more power.”

We apologise on his behalf for the mangled syntax. But even on the superficial level that pithy line’s not entirely true, is it, Anas? Because you’re a Westminster MP, and you wouldn’t get more power. You, and dozens of your Scottish Labour colleagues, would in fact be out of a cushy, well-paid job with lavish expenses, a gold-plated pension and a chance of a lifelong £300-a-day gig in the House Of Lords on top.

It’s remarkably disingenuous to try to play an anti-politician card when you’re fighting to cling onto your own personal gravy train. Whether you agree with their cause or not, it’s undeniably true that SNP MPs are campaigning vigorously to make themselves unemployed, and the party’s MSPs want to take on much more responsibility for no more money, and face a lot more internal competition for their seats.

We’d have considerably more respect for Scottish Labour MPs (which admittedly isn’t a high bar to clear) if a single one of them admitted their own massive personal vested interest in keeping Scotland in the UK.

But if that’s a bit much to ask, maybe they should at least have the dignity to not try to adopt the Nigel Farage-style “man-of-the-people” outsider pose.

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    1. 17 06 14 11:47

      The people’s champion | Scottish Independence News

    164 to “The people’s champion”

    1. galamcennalath says:

      Sarwar could not have got it more wrong. Everybody’s life will change forever after 18th September. And, that’s whether we vote Yes or No! Probably for the better with Yes, certainly for the worse with No.

    2. Neil Craig says:

      “Whether you agree with their cause or not, it’s undeniably true that SNP MPs are campaigning vigorously to make themselves unemployed,”

      A good point which equally applies to UKIP MEPs. Arguably also to some extent to would be UKIP MPs/councillors because we believe that a significant amount of decision making could be given to the people through referendums – something anathema to the other parties.

    3. bookie from hell says:

      citizen smith

      Wolfie: Power to the people!

    4. Morag says:

      Of course the SNP MPs are really campaigning to have their workplace moved back home.

      It’s absolute bloody HELL being an SNP MP. I don’t know how they put up with it. I’m pretty sure the entire boiling of them can’t wait to shake the dust of Westminster off their feet. I’ve always had the greatest admiration for people prepared to do what they do, all in the cause of Scottish independence.

      So what’s going to happen to them after a Yes vote? Anybody think they won’t be getting good Holyrood seats? Some SNP MSPs will be retiring after this parliament anyway, and who better to replace them. There’s also the prospect of a few more MEP seats going.

      I think we should have a ticker-tape welcome for them when they leave Westminster for the last time. And they are assured of a continuing career in Scottish politics if that’s what they want.

      What’s going to happen to the Labour and LibDem MPs from Scottish seats? Not quite comparable, I suspect.

    5. handclapping says:

      Its a plot by Stu to keep us quiet. By tying us up for an hour or more watching videos, we can’t be posting BTL and he can be getting on with better things than having to hover over the ban button 😉

    6. heedtracker says:

      70+ years of Labour right to rule Scotland and all they have left, projectfear smoke mirrors, safety clout power strength with another country running Scotland Anas style.

      “Why are Scots oil rigs built on the other side of the planet Anas?”

    7. Vestas says:

      Like father like son in the case of Sarwar & if people consider that racist then tough.

      Pakistani politics/society is utterly corrupt & that’s nothing to do with religion or race. Its to do with nepotism over decades, which is something SLAB know all about.

    8. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I tried to listen to it but telephone calls and Skype ones too made it difficult to concentrate.

      The video has obviously been edited not, as far as I can see, to reduce or increase the position of either speaker. What I did notice the Gardham, actually praised, on at least one occasion, an answer by Nicola.

      Was this recorded before or after Anus was given his Bus Pass?

    9. Simon Chadwick says:

      When I was young and growing up in the south of England, I came acrosd the soundbite that Conservatism is not political. If you are a Conservative activist, attend party functions hosted by the Lord Leiutenant, and donate to the local party funds, that is not political, it’s just the normal way of things. On the other hand merely considering voting Labour was Political with a capital P, radical, dangerous, subersive and not really the kind of thing you should admit to in polite society.

      I suppose back then though, the Labour party really was a Political choice. Anas’s line here shows really how the entire party has “crossed the house” and joined the conservative faction.

      “…politics change nobody’s life…” Yes, we don’t want any of that dirty old fashioned Politics here! Just vote for me and don’t worry about it, I’ll make sure everyone knows their place and stays in it!

    10. jim watson says:

      10.09 an NHS right across the United Kingdom – what a misinformed ignorant man – but enough of his good points…

    11. George Glen says:

      WTF? Our new constitution will put sovereignty in the hands of the people instead of the monarch and parliament. What could be more fundamental and the opposite of power to politicians? Hopefully the publishing of the independence bill will enable people to refute such bullshit from Sarwar etc. immediately on the spot!

    12. Tartan Tory says:

      Anas Sarwar represents everything I find wrong in Scottish politics.

      Firstly, he is dynastic. This never sits well with me, as I believe in a meritocracy. Whilst the two are not mutually exclusive, I never find them sitting well together as a rule.

      Secondly, he is a Westminster Labour MP from a Scottish seat. I have an intrinsic distrust of these people, as they are rarely there by the grace of their own good deeds and a monkey with a red rosette will typically get the job regardless. It has to be said that the blame for this lies squarely with the populous and not with the person concerned – they only make hay from it.

      Thirdly, and this should probably be ‘primarily’, I find him to be one of the most snide, condescending and hypocritical of his ilk. As I understand it, he appeared to campaign against the bedroom tax in his constituency, but when the time came to vote on the issue in Westminster, he was to be found in his ancestral home of Pakistan promoting right-wing values to the youth of that country.

      If there is one thing I would like to see in a Scottish constitution, it would be that elected representatives work for their electorate first, and not for those of a foreign land. I think Sarwar’s actions could be described as tantamount to treason of the Scottish people. I find his contempt for Scotland to be worse than that of Margaret Thatcher and I look forward to him receiving his P45 almost as much as I look forward to independence itself!

    13. jim watson says:

      11.36 £4billion lost in tax receipts from oil – oh good God I’ve had enough! It’s project fear in sound bites. Did he then mention that this was due to heavier investment that should reap increased tax take in the future? Nope don’t suppose he did. 13 years of labour government and inequality increased and yet they still warble on about social justice…a new moral economy – aaaarrrrgggghhhhhh!

    14. Macart says:

      Mr Sarwar’s premise falls apart on a number of levels not least of which is the subject of popular sovereignty. The Scottish government proposal is set to change the face of all politics and the current party political system as it is currently practiced. Even the SNP would be fully accountable to the letter of a written constitution and the popular will of the people where power would rest.

      I don’t recall any party of Westminster government looking to hand over parliamentary sovereignty to the people. But then this probably slipped his mind in the heat of the moment. 😉

    15. Jim Marshall says:

      Tartan Tory

      “Secondly, he is a Westminster Labour MP from a Scottish seat. I have an intrinsic distrust of these people, as they are rarely there by the grace of their own good deeds and a monkey with a red rosette will typically get the job regardless. It has to be said that the blame for this lies squarely with the populous and not with the person concerned – they only make hay from it.”

      Please don”t insult monkeys by suggesting we would associate with Labour.

    16. Marcia says:


      I agree with you there. When I used to go to London Branch SNP meeting in the early 1980’s it was interesting to see them plugging away. Forget online abuse now, how Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart put up with all the abuse they received then was just accepted, I admired them for their patience.

      Talking of Gordon Wilson, Peter Curran has put an interview from Sunday online;

    17. TheItalianJob says:

      In the mid nineties, I worked in a Fab yard in Methil building a large processing module. The huge jacket it sat on was built in another yard in Ardesier. We had oil rigs being refurbished in another yard in Nigg Bay.

      By the mid 2000’s the Methil and Ardesier yards were dismantled and mothballed.

      Then the huge Buzzard field was discovered which was the largest find in North Sea Scotland for 25 yaers.

      It required 3 large topside modules and 3 jackets which could have easily been built in Scotland but due to the yards being decommissioned, they had to be built overseas.

      The 3 large topside module fabrication went to the Cadiz yard in Spain. But what was even worse were the 3 large jackets were built in Norwegian yards, which due to government support were able to compete with yards in Europe and elsewhere in the world. Some of the fab work was sub-contracted, in Scotland, but was minimal compared to the Norwegian and Spanish yards, albeit as a token gesture by the government.

      These fabrication yards can be re-opened in an Independent Scotland and start building topside and jackets again.

    18. Morag says:

      Marcia, in my time in London Branch it was Margaret Ewing we saw most, and of course Alex Salmond – latterly Angus Robertson was around a lot. Margaret in particular I admired no end for her dedication to an absolutely thankless task.

      I’m not sure if it was her or her MinL who was asked by a Labour MP how she was settling in. She replied, “I didn’t come here to settle in, I came here to settle up.”

      Ostracised, cold-shouldered, cat-called, shouted down. Alex seemed to thrive on it, God alone knows how, but the others mainly rose above it all. It’s tragedy that Margaret died so young and wasn’t able to take part in our final push this year.

    19. Derek M says:

      O/T Angus Roberston is on daily politics just now with Forsyth ,he just dropped the flipper bomb 🙂

    20. muttley79 says:

      The desire for self preservation among unionists will in all likelihood not be mentioned by the MSM.

    21. Morag says:

      I’ll say it again. To choose to do that with your life when you could be earning a crust doing something more rewarding (like defending serial killers or prosecuting forgetful old biddies for shoplifting in the case of the lawyers) – I mean that’s dedication.

      It has paid off, especially for Alex, but it so easily might not have done. Even those who didn’t live to see 2014 probably realised they were moving with a rising tide. Still, to have to live and work in London in that cess-pit – rather them than me.

    22. Papadox says:

      Michael Bruce Forsyth, Baron Forsyth of Drumlean PC, Kt is a British financier and politician, who was the Member of Parliament for Stirling from 1983 to 1997 and served in the cabinet of John Major as … Wikipedia

      Spokesperson for, and defender of the “people of Scotland” mmmm.

      If you have common cause with this Lordy then god help you.

    23. seanair says:

      Just for the sake of argument, there is a No vote AND Westminster reluctantly devolves new powers to the Scottish Parliament, there would inevitably be a backlash from the Tories about MPs from Scotland doing not very much for the same salary as MPs from England.
      One solution for the 2015 Tory government would be to allow the former to speak/vote only only on reserved matters, and take a corresponding PAYCUT. How many Scottish Labour MPs would stand for Westminster in future, with most of their perks gone? So Anas Sarwar be careful what you vote for— it could return to bite you.

    24. Ken500 says:

      Swanning about Pakistan when the ‘room tax ‘ vote took place. Try that in the Scottish Parliament.

      Thatcher henchman troughing Forsyth, every word he utters is a lie. 800 HoL troughers. Westminster omishambles.

    25. muttley79 says:


      Yes, it is very sad that the likes of Margaret Ewing, Margo MacDonald, Stephen Maxwell, Neil McCormack, Allan McCartney and many others did not live long enough to be able to vote in September. Their contribution was immense though.

    26. caz-m says:

      Oops, I think you dropped something there Morag. LOL

    27. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ jim watson says:

      “11.36 £4billion lost in tax receipts from oil – oh good God I’ve had enough! It’s project fear in sound bites. Did he then mention that this was due to heavier investment that should reap increased tax take in the future? Nope don’t suppose he did. 13 years of labour government and inequality increased and yet they still warble on about social justice…a new moral economy – aaaarrrrgggghhhhhh!”

      Anas is one of these Labour timeservers who is basically a CUFT politician.

      He is told what to say, told how to say it and discouraged from thinking for himself, as it totally confuse the team message and real bottom feeders who make up the most part of Labour’s Scottish bloc.

      Presentation before substance.

      He could own a second hand Fiat dealership.

    28. Training Day says:

      As Muttley says above, no one in the MSM, to the best of my knowledge, has once mentioned the massive vested interest every Unionist politician has in maintaining that Union. It’s so bleedin’ obvious that it should start every exchange bewteen a journalist and a Unionist politician.

      That it doesn’t, and that charlatans like Sarwar are allowed to maintain a fiction that their ‘beliefs’ come from ‘principle’, ‘passion’ and ‘conviction’ speaks volumes about the MSM.

    29. Bugger (the Panda) says:



      Can’t understand (a) F’n thing.

    30. Robert Louis says:


      Michael Forsyth just on the Daily Politics on BBC2, effectively dissmissing the notion of more powers for Scotland with a NO vote. He clearly stated that after a NO vote, ANY new powers for Scotland will be a decision for the whole of the UK, and not just for Scots. In other words, any new powers will be at the whim of the English MP dominated House of Commons and Lords. QED new powers WILL NOT happen.

      It could not be clearer, a NO vote will mean powers removed, not added.

    31. Morag says:

      Dropped something?

    32. eezy says:

      Dos attacks anyone?
      Loads of 503 errors….

    33. Black Douglas says:


      Michael Forsyth v Angus Robertson on the Daily Politics show BBC2.

      If it was a boxing match the ref would of stopped it after the round three.

      Time for BT/UKOK/No Thanks or whatever they want to call themselves today to throw in the towel.

    34. Papadox says:

      This Great Britain, the establishment and EBC keep rattling on about raises a wee question. Can anybody tell me if there is a team GB at the commonwealth games shortly to be held in Glasgow.
      Who is in the team?

      Sounds like a reasonable question to me.

    35. Doug Daniel says:

      “Actually constitutional politics change nobody’s life”

      Wee arsehole. If this is true, then why are all the Labour politicians who tell us how much they care about social justice so desperate to get a No vote?

      This is the kind of patronising nonsense the No side spewed forth during the devolution referendums, and those who opposed universal suffrage (“women needn’t concern themselves with voting” et al). When someone starts putting forward this kind of argument, they’ve lost.

      This is the language of someone who wants to keep politics away from the people. “Don’t concern yourself with how your politicians organise themselves – just you concentrate on trying to figure out how to make ends meet, while we sort out the boring stuff. You probably wouldn’t understand it, anyway.” The same kind of arsehole who thinks people should have no say in what powers their parliament has, and so says “vote No and then we’ll decide what happens afterwards.”

    36. Clootie says:

      I thought it very telling how Forsyth avoided the question on more powers. “… that will be a matter for the people of England,Wales,Northern Ireland and Scotland.

      Not much chance then!

    37. Tartan Tory says:

      Jim Marshall says:

      Please don”t insult monkeys by suggesting we would associate with Labour.


      Sorry Jim…… Didn’t notice your picture before now!

      However, from your picture, I suspect you’re one of those ‘orangetangy’ things, rather than a monkey…

      Even I know that Labour fools don’t vote for orangutangs, since in the Simeon world, they are far more erudite than monkeys and wouldn’t wear a red rosette due to the colour clash! 😉

    38. JLT says:

      Seriously …it makes me growl that the media pander to Sarwar. The guy always skews the truth the first chance he gets. And who could forget his wee visit to Pakistan when he should have been here to vote on the Bedroom Tax.

      This is one guy I would not want involved anywhere in Scottish politics if Scotland gains its independence.

    39. MochaChoca says:

      I can imagine Anas upping sticks and heading to a political career in Pakistan following a YES vote.

      I can also imagine him ‘forgetting’ which side he was on when presenting his political credentials to his prospective constituents there.

    40. muttley79 says:


      The idea that constitutional politics does not change lives is one the most remarkable statements from a political campaign that has produced a litany of clangers. It is like saying the American Revolution (which was mostly a constitutional change) did not change the lives of Americans! If we vote Yes, Scotland will rid itself of nuclear weapons, create our own welfare system, get international recognition, be able to devise our own taxation system, write our own constitution, create an immigration policy that fits our needs, set up are own broadcasting and media system.

      Only someone with almost no political vision at all could come out with this kind of dire schtick. No wonder the likes of Lamont, Baillie, Rennie, Sarwar, Curran etc are on the No side.

    41. Clootie says:

      Please ensure we have a copy of Baroness Trumpington’s dreadful personal attack on Alex Salmond.
      This highlights the opinion of the elite.

      Very dignified response by Angus Robertson.

      This unelected House is full of those same people who will decide those extra powers.

    42. Proud Cybernat says:

      And we have also Jimmy Hood, MP, standing as a Proud Scotbut in Westminster stating that even if independence was more beneficial to the people of Scotland, he still would not support it. Well, of course you wouldn’t because you are not remotely interested in the needs of the people of Scotland but in your own vested, selfish interests.

      The sooner we give these London troughers the boot, the better.

    43. Clootie says:

      Politics show today

    44. Macart says:

      @Robert Louis

      Aye, but because we’re not genetically programmed to make political decisions, they’re kind of hoping we wouldn’t spot the hole/chasm in the Desperation of Calton Hill.

      That being (and just as Mr Forsyth has outlined), new powers will require electoral and party consensus. This from an establishment which has fought tooth and nail to centralise all the true levers of power and which for generations fought to deny the Scottish electorate a vote on this very issue.

      Some would say that what we have here is a failure to communicate. In fact what we have here is a party political establishment selling a brazen lie and asking for the trust of an electorate which they themselves historically and currently, have shown neither faith nor trust in.

      Amazing but true, they do have more neck than a herd of giraffes.

    45. Macart says:


      What was the nature of the attack Clootie?

    46. Cymru Rydd says:

      Talking of Westminster MP’s, I wonder whether a breakthrough move to YES from Labour is more likely to come from that direction, rather than Holyrood- in the first place at any rate.

      With the recent Panelbase survey showing that 34% of Labour voters now favour YES, surely all Scottish Labour politicans are pondering their career moves and how best to align themselves with this growing mutiny in the ranks so to speak.

      Following the referendum from Wales, it seems to me that most of Labour’s contingent in Holyrood have truly nailed their colours to the crude, anti-SNP mast, hauled up by their leader Joanne Lamont. The blinkered tribalism involved with all this would most likely severely ostracise any one who would dare desert the ship at this point.

      I’m just thinking that it may be easier for one of Labour’s Westminster contingent to break ranks- as members who are not in direct opposition to the SNP in Westminster as such and not directly involved in the day-to-day battle so to speak. Surely, there are one or two Scottish Labour MP’s who have kept their heads down so far and who could therefore move to YES without compromising themselves too much?

      With a recent poll also showing that the SNP would receive huge support in the General Election of 2015 should NO carry the day( a mixture of guilt, revulsion at the way NO and the Media have poisoned the referendum debate, and a desire not to see Scotland punished for the temerity of holding an independence referendum), it may well make more immediate sense for a Westminster Labour MP to think about how they could counter this eventuality. Surely, it could be a win-win for them?

      If it’s a YES, they would be well positioned to justify standing for the new Independent Scottish Parliament in 2016. Such a principled stand, in going against the wishes of their party, would surely appeal to the contrary nature of Scots?( in the best possible sense of the word). If it’s a NO, well would still have a job- but in 2015 they could argue that they put Scotland first, rather than themselves, and thus align themselves with a strong pro-Scotland feeling which would surely be the dominant feature of a post No general election campaign in Scotland.

      Do any of the posters here know of any Labour MP’s who could fit the bill?

    47. Giving Goose says:

      Re Cymru Rydd says;

      In answer, No.
      I believe that Scottish Labour MPs have absolutely no respect for anyone other than their own self interests. The Labour Party has changed so much that you have to be a sociopath to gain any traction on it’s internal career ladder.

    48. Macart says:

      WGD update in Off Topic.

      Apologies Rev, I’ll go and beat myself with a stick.

    49. Nana Smith says:

      @Giving Goose

      My personal view of New Labour

      It is astounding or so lamont says
      Her madness taking its toll in oh so many ways
      But listen closely when she’s telling you more lies
      Not for much longer as we will not be denied

      Darling is no statesman on that we can be clear
      Trying to imply Salmonds leadership through fear
      Is just another lie from better together la la land
      His leading poll a misleading poll and just as underhand

      Another relaunch of united by titan captain brown
      How many is it now as I failed to take a count
      Mind you its more appearances than the commons have seen of late
      He’s too busy speculating in order to accumulate

      Do you remember ’79 and the devolution vote
      And how they cheated scotland of our democratic choice
      Keep this in mind when voting YES on referendum day
      We’re dealing with past liars who like to get their way

      Labour in its current form are unfit to lecture our nation
      The Falkirk debacle is one example of criminal fixation
      And lest we forget their antics with dodgy information
      Remember Campbells dossier and illegal invasions

      The labour party lost its way some eighteen years ago
      They went from red to blue so fast when money it did flow
      Played fast and loose with information just to get their way
      Helping Bush to start a war was the order of the day

      They are getting very worried about losing all their seats
      And giving up expenses which they like to try and cheat
      Its time they did a proper job putting in some real hard graft
      Instead of fiddling figures which they’ve got down to an art

      Wilson in the scotsman ranting raving loony lies
      Attempts to smear Rev Stu who deals with froth and spite
      Labourites try to keep the truth from getting to the voters
      So lets vote Yes and watch them all receive their bloody jotters.

    50. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Cymru Rydd

      Answer to your question is : there’s more chance of Tony Blair saying “I was wrong” for the Iraq War, than there is of any Scottish Labour MP coming over to Yes.

      The visceral, irrational hatred they have for the SNP is just as deep as their MSPs.

    51. Tamson says:

      @Camry Rydd:

      You’re forgetting Oliver Brown’s famous line after Hamilton 1967: “a shiver went along the Labour back benches, lopoking for a spine to run up.”

    52. Tamson says:

      Apologies- Cymru, not Camry! Bloody phone autocorrect…

    53. frances says:


      was that it? Ocht, she’s just an old woman.

      As for Forsyth and Brown – what a team for yes. Don’t you just love them?

    54. Taranaich says:

      “Actually constitutional politics change nobody’s life – apart from the politician themselves, who gets more power.”

      Even for Mr. Sarwar, this is an astoundingly stupid thing to say. If the result of constitutional politics means politicians get more power, and the entire idea of politicians is to use their power to enact change, then how in the name of all that is sane could that NOT change lives?




      Mother of…

      @Morag: It’s absolute bloody HELL being an SNP MP. I don’t know how they put up with it. I’m pretty sure the entire boiling of them can’t wait to shake the dust of Westminster off their feet. I’ve always had the greatest admiration for people prepared to do what they do, all in the cause of Scottish independence.

      So what’s going to happen to them after a Yes vote? Anybody think they won’t be getting good Holyrood seats? Some SNP MSPs will be retiring after this parliament anyway, and who better to replace them. There’s also the prospect of a few more MEP seats going.

      I think we should have a ticker-tape welcome for them when they leave Westminster for the last time. And they are assured of a continuing career in Scottish politics if that’s what they want.

      I cannot bring myself to watch SNP politicians in Westminster for the simple reason that I can’t help but think of hapless individuals being tossed to the lions in the metaphorical Coliseum. It’s bad enough when they’re a Green or Independent, but every one of the three major UK parties round on the SNP.

      Sometimes it’s encouraging or uplifting when Angus or Pete get a chance to actually speak, though. It’s like the final scene in a zombie movie where one person fights back the ravening hordes with a chainsaw to give the survivors more time to escape to the last helicopter:

      Don’t care what anyone says, don’t care about party affiliation: Pete Wishart is a goddamn hero.

    55. desimond says:

      Cymru Rydd
      Sadly, none will jump from the comfy Money ship and risk it. Instead, following any YES vote, shame will continue to be a stranger to Labour MPs and MSPs. They will all try and carry on ( in whatever position wherever they can grab one) and execute the classic ‘Ruth Davidson SandLine’ manouvre by saying “We have listened to the people and now we all move on together”

    56. Jim Thomson says:

      Afternoon @Taranaich

      You back in civilisation yet?

      Did you manage to discuss the meaning of life and independence with young Mr Barrowman?

      Just wondering (and sorry if you’ve covered all that already – not able to spend 24 Hours a day on here).

    57. Illy says:


      I am feeling more and more that Anas is only being used as their front-man because he’s got a name thats rediculously easy to make low jokes about, and they were hoping we’d bit more.

      From what I could cope with in his opening address, he wasn’t making the case for the UK, he was making the case for the labour movement (not that that has much to do with the Labour party anymore)

      Geez, please tell me it gets better than that?

    58. bookie from hell says:

      The joke doing the rounds in MoD circles is “we now have what we didn’t have in 2003: a valid reason to invade Iraq.”

    59. heedtracker says:

      O/T but I was watching Sarah Smith’s dire BBC Scotlandshire 1914 last night and she had on a vote NO bloke from Glasgow uni called Adam Tomkins.

      Shurely a coincidence but Tomkins talks and writes almost exactly like vote NO or else CiF “Abiesalba”, BetterTogether Slovenia of the Herald, Guardian etc

      Today for example on the old CiF Scotchland Guardian, Abiesalba’s currently arguing very hard that the proposed Scottish constitution makes FM Alex Salmond a dictator etc.

      It must be a coincidence as Abiesalba always show as much local Slovene knowledge as any English man would, currently doing his thing at Glasgow uni, with a incredibly similar “grasp” constitutional and administrative law of the European Union, like what Prof Tomkins do do:D

      If you’re out their Prof, get back tae work.

    60. MajorBloodnok says:

      Continuing Taranaich’s helicopter theme, come the YES vote I look forward to watching on CNN the unseemly scramble of Labour Westminster politicians trying to get onto the metaphorical Huey as it lifts off the embassy roof.

      It will be just like the last days in Saigon except it’ll be the wailing bastards that will be trying to get on the chopper, rather than the ones being left behind.

    61. Illy says:


      Ok, I managed to get a bit farther in, but again, Anas is just missing the point. It’d almost be comical if it wasn’t so important, that all he has are his soundbytes about corperation tax or whatever (we don’t care about policy, this is bigger than policy), rather than engaging the actual point presented.

      Seriously, they *want* us to laugh at him, it’s the only explination I can think of. Anas’s performance is too pathetic to be anything else.

    62. bookie from hell says:

      scotland 2014 doing exactly what it was in brought for–a trumpet for better together,its not even subtle anymore–lol

      hence viewing figures

    63. Ken500 says:

      NO coincidence – propaganda

      Another Glasgow Uni economics Prof did a study on Czechoslovakia.

      Wee Wendy’s man

      Glasgow Uni Labour/Unionists degrees show

    64. Ken500 says:

      What do biased Professors teach their students?

    65. Holebender says:

      Scottish MPs (SNP branch) may be working to do themselves out of a job, but we’re going to need a lot of Ambassadors & High Commissioners when we’re independent, not to mention a few more MEPs and a European Commissioner. I rather doubt if they’ll need to sign on at the Jobcentre (unlike the unionist shower).

    66. Famous15 says:

      Pity songs are barred because I hear The Who “Won’t get fooled again” playing loud in my ear.
      I just hope the warning is listened to.

      I hate dishonesty. No thanks to your lies Better Together.

      Vote YES and be able to live the good life.

    67. heedtracker says:

      Hi Ken, it was rather an odd experience watching vote No Prof Tomkins on BBC tv last night speaking Slovenia votes NO Aliebadas stuff but that’s what so much of our referendum is all about, bullshit artists like Anas up there trying con Scotland into accepting being ruled by another country.

      To be fair, it makes said conmen a lot of mullah which is tragic but ridiculous. Mind Anas and his Commons “Holyrood is a dictatorship” speech? Spooky coincidence there too.

      Anas will have a big future in Pakistani politics and Professor Aliebadas will just have to lump it.

    68. David says:

      Baroness Trumpton, ah bless! (Well, she is blessed, with £300 a day appearance money.)

    69. Frankie goes to Holyrood says:

      The Prospect Union Referendum debate was chaired by Magnus Gardham, Political Editor with The Herald, who has written a report:

    70. manandboy says:

      Latest News:(imagine)

      Marks & Spencer Directors and shareholders
      are in a state of shock
      at the news that the M&S empire
      is about to go out of business throughout the UK,
      although a few stores in London will be retained.

      A spokesman for the iconic store, founded in Leeds in 1884,said:
      It is sad but true.
      It’s the end of a trading empire.
      Perhaps it was always going to end this way
      after recent management changes have resulted
      in the business abandoning its traditional values
      which have brought about
      a loss of confidence in our customers,
      who have voted with their feet.

      He went on to say: Last day of trading will be September 18th with stores closing at 10pm.

    71. Jim Thomson says:

      Well, well, well. Who’d a thunk it?

      China wants to fund HS2 along with the nuclear stuff down south.

      Wonder if Camoron has asked them to be “more British”.

      It just gets better (together) and better (together).

    72. Clootie says:


      Thanks for that

      @Macart – Frances posted the link above.

      East to dismiss as an eccentric but one of Maggie’s pals and this is an example of the Lords mindset.
      Typical we knows what is best for you!

    73. Clootie says:

      That auto correct 🙁 Easy not East

    74. desimond says:

      Anyone else been following this “UK PASSPORT CRISIS”.

      Funny how The Home Office can on a whim just extend passports to ease a crazy burden but the Unionists dont think the Scottish Government could even handle buying an ALBA ink stamp!

    75. Mark says:

      How exactly does he define constitutional politics? I would include such issues as, erm, the franchise in constitutional politics. Indeed, I’m not really sure how he could deny that the vote is about the constitution. So, in other words, he is denying that giving people the vote – which is what the constitutional politics of 1831-2, 1866-7, 1884, 1918, 1928 etc, plus all of the years in between which built up to those crisis points, were all about – changes people’s lives. Interesting. Now, I know that anarchists will point out that ‘if the vote changed anything, they’d make it illegal, but I am slightly surprised to hear an MP argue that point. Only slightly surprised, of course, because it was Anas that said it, and I’ve ceased being surprised at his anti-democratic ramblings.

    76. Taranaich says:

      @Jim Thomson: You back in civilisation yet?

      Did you manage to discuss the meaning of life and independence with young Mr Barrowman?

      I am indeed back home to Bonnie Scotland. I’ve been following events from Arizona/Texas with a curious eye, particularly the crazy smear attempts on the Rev and everyone here at Wings, truly amazing desperation on their part.

      Unfortunately I didn’t get around to speaking with Mr. Barrowman, but I did have great fun explaining the current arguments for Scottish Independence to Americans (and Germans, Japanese, French and more) who haven’t had a lifetime of conditioning against the notion, which was most intriguing. I was particularly pleased that one individual commented on how fair, positive and solid my words were, and didn’t detect a hint of anti-English hatred. Not a single one seemed unconvinced.

      Unfortunately, my American/German/Japanese/French friends and acquaintances don’t have a vote over here – but I learned a great deal from them, and hope to utilize it in the coming weeks.

    77. David says:

      O/T, link to funding page for Wee Ginger Dug’s partner, who suffers from vascular dementia:

      If you can, help these two have a better quality of life, and so enable the WGD to carry on writing excellent pro-Yes articles on his blog. Please spread the word!

    78. Jim Thomson says:


      That looks like you had a very enjoyable, and engaging, trip.

      I’ll keep an eye on your blog and hope to see what these intriguing “learnings” are 😉

      Good to have you home again. 🙂

    79. heedtracker says:

      Prof Alseibadas certainly not a yes voter! Hope he’s not marking exams as WoS demolished his UKIP rules Scotland and immigration into Scotland will need a New Dundee stuff. Doesn’t sound as good as New York New York though.

      “Yesterday, the First Minister said that an independent Scotland would need to attract 24,000 people into Scotland annually. But this poses several problems for him. First, within six years of independence Scotland would need a new city the size of Dundee to accommodate its 150,000 new immigrants.”

      The good Prof still hacking away with £100 billion zillion set up costs Danny Alexander made a complete fool of himself with lately.

      “Unanswered question 2: if the Scottish Ministers do not accept that it would cost an independent Scotland £1.5bn to establish the institutions and public services it would need”

      Can anyone choob be a teamGB Professor? I wanna be a part of it, New Dundee New Dundee…

    80. Jim Thomson says:

      @David 3:41

      Bucket rattled 🙂

    81. Jim Thomson says:


      one of my lads heard Beaker asking again how much the SG reckoned it would cost to set up the governance infrastructure. I thought he already had the answers to that, as precisely calculated by the gurus in the Treasury.

      Complete and utter imbecile, and we elect people like him to “govern” us. Hope Inverness takes a tumble to themselves and gets rid as soon as electorally possible.

    82. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a real people’s champion – Richie Venton of the SSP, talking at Yes meeting in Paisley:

    83. MochaChoca says:


      Stephen Smellie, deputy convener of Unison in Scotland (and Labour Party member) declares his support for a Yes.

    84. Capella says:

      In his summing up, Sarwar claims to aspire to something “bigger than independence”. What could he mean? He doesn’t say. The audience are sent into a trance coming up with their own answer.

    85. muttley79 says:


      I must say I am very sceptical and suspicions of that poster on the Guardian’s Cif as well, who claims to be Slovakian, and is incredibly opposed to a Yes vote. I don’t know the identity of the individual obviously, but he/she has distinct Brit nat tendencies. I cannot understand how someone from Slovakia would be so hostile to Scottish independence.

    86. TheItalianJob says:


      Touche. Welcome back Taranaich. Really looking forward to your Blog, words of wisdom and comment’s leading up to the 18th.

    87. TJenny says:

      muttley79 – perhaps ‘cough’ (it’s the cybernat virus, I’ve got LA’s cough, noo!) it’s someone who’s related to a certain person, also claiming to be Slovakian, that used to post britnat anti-indy ‘logic’ in the Herald comments?
      (You can spot them a mile off – they are all imbued with the same twisted logic gene – it’s mandatory!)

    88. TheItalianJob says:


      and @muttley79 says:

      “I cannot understand how someone from Slovakia would be so hostile to Scottish independence.”

      Yes this surprised to when I read some of his comments in the various online newspaper articles.

      Something smell fishy here and its not fish.

    89. Hood says:

      T Jenny
      can you email me at
      hood at rdengineering dot

      It is regards the wings logo.

    90. desimond says:

      Thanks for passing on that link. My Mum just been diagnosed with the same, and very happy to help in some small way.

    91. gordoz says:


      Think he’s talking about that Labour thing .. you know …
      whats it called ?

      Oh yeah a socialist seat in the Lords !

    92. Dorothy Devine says:

      Regarding the Slovenian interest , it has been suggested that it is the verbose Jezerna Rosa of Herald fame.

      Meanwhile on the Herald a wee mystery ,the Bo character has private commenting ,while all others, including the manic OBE , show every comment ever made should you click on the name.

      I seem to remember when the Scotsman was a newspaper , way back in the dreamtime, there was a controversy over staff making comment to induce responses.

    93. msean says:

      Once again,the Scotland question gets put to a visiting dignitary,the Chinese Premier.

    94. Muscleguy says:

      @Jim Marshal

      Your objection would carry more weight if you weren’t in fact a great ape. Us cephalopods may not be intimately acquainted with terrestrial animals but my access to the interwebnet includes wikipedia 😉

    95. Clootie says:


      Thanks for the link – glad to help.
      Impressed as always with those already given so quickly – 25percent of target already. I hope it keeps going past that objective.

    96. IcySpark says:

      Was on my local main street earlier and bumped into one of our labour party councillors. Asked him what he thought about 35% of Labour voters voting Yes from the latest poll. Didn’t answer and just went on about “it’s all about Alex Salmond”. I said to him if he’s a real Labour man, he should vote Yes to get his Labour party back.

      Just at that moment, the big red Anas Sarwar Labour bus pulled up right next to me. He asked me to talk to Mr Sarwar, but respectfully declined for obvious reasons.

    97. Grouse Beater says:

      I agree.

      Said before, will say it again.

      The majority are fighting for their own personal future.

      And they are prepared to deny the people of Scotland full democratic powers in order to insure they are protected.

    98. heedtracker says:

      Hi muttley, Aleisbadass is almost certainly not a Slovene, no real local background stuff about Slovenia etc and almost certainly a Prof of constitutional EU law at the Glasgow un, thousands of a bitter but academic frighteners. And that’s fine. If these guys think they know all about the Scotland we have to live in beyond their academic vote no BBC ivory tower, let them make fools of themselves with phoney CIF herald and guardian accounts.

      Prof Nutcase can spout every single peice of EU law in his lecture notes but he’s still not living under the AlicSamin dictatorship he’s ranting about today. Mind you he is getting paid by the tax payer. Ah what the hell, Scottish will be the judge of these guys.

    99. heedtracker says:

      Scottish HISTORY will judge these guys. Sorry for typos!

    100. TJenny says:

      Hood – have emailed you.

    101. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      A right wee eager beaver you are.

    102. TJenny says:

      BtP – thank you. 🙂

    103. TJenny says:

      Wayhay – WGD’s fundraiser now got 49 donators and raised £3006.00. Angel Wings indeed. 🙂

    104. TheItalianJob says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Excellent talk from Richie Venton. He speaks a lot of truths.

    105. Morag says:

      See here we go again. What is this “donator” word? My entire life, the word has been “donor”.

    106. Morag says:

      A donor gives a donation of course, but even so….

    107. Flower of Scotland says:

      O/t Oh Hi Sir John Major! Nice of you visit Scotland to tell us AGAIN that they won’t let us into NATO if we get rid of Trident! LA,LA,LA,LA( got my fingers in my ears) Now just go home and leave us to vote YES!

    108. TJenny says:

      Morag -as long as we give – you can call us whatever you want – I like Angel Wingers. 🙂

    109. galamcennalath says:

      WGD fundraiser URL?

    110. TJenny says:

      galamcennalath – it’s on WGD’s latest page or here.

    111. galamcennalath says:

      John Major is it now? They fact that BT can only offer yesterday’s men as spokespeople says it all!

    112. TJenny says:

      Don’t know why that didn’t work – took out the bits before weegingerdug. 🙁

    113. TJenny says:

      Try again as I put this on another thread.

    114. Flower of Scotland says:

      Radio Scotland is advertising Morning Call a few times a day! Never used to. Maybe people turn off now! I do.

    115. heedtracker says:

      Press and journal front page headline today, “Why venomous Cybernats are damaging the case for independence” by Ron Ferguson, who he?

      Have to hand if to P&J daily witless vote no front page attacks like this on people online considering how ferocious they are to anyone in YES Scotland or SNP It must really really annoy them that it’s not 1914.

      If you are ever bitten by a venomous cybernat, get Ron Ferguson of the P&J, who he, to suck out the venom and replace it with nice healthy BetterTogether juices, with added Tory sauce.

    116. rab_the_doubter says:

      Delighted to see the WGD fundraiser succeeding. would love to see that counter going through the ceiling.

    117. rab_the_doubter says:

      Lets hear it for ‘venomous’ fundraising and caring about people.

    118. heedtracker says:

      I’m reading my free Vote no or else Press and Journal on the Platinum service bus home tonight here in Aberdeen, bike nicked, but the vote NO BBC news Iive on the bus TV and the vote no vote Tory press and journal is making this trip seem a lot like 1984 and it’s quite expensive too. Wifi works though!

    119. desimond says:


      Its usually spelt donner where I come from and always consumed as a “lovely feast’ after a nights drinking which turns into a “never again” declaration next day.

    120. Grouse Beater says:

      William Hague throws his support behind “Team GB” competing in Glasgow’s Commonwealth Games.

      Oops!- I meant Britain – grousebeater.wordpress

    121. Jim Marshall says:

      heedtracker 5.36

      “Press and journal front page headline today, “Why venomous Cybernats are damaging the case for independence” by Ron Ferguson, who he?”

      Proves that cybernattery is effective when they come out with this rubbish. The online indy campaign is making a difference and may even be the persuasive medium which brings a YES victory.

    122. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @TJenny says:
      Try again as I put this on another thread.

      Thanks TJenny … I’ve contributed.

      I’ll re-post the link in some of my Cybernattin’ haunts …

    123. msean says:

      Don’t get me started,I had never heard of the word “acceptor” until I used the self service till at a well known supermarket.

    124. Nana Smith says:

      Now that the great beacon of democracy has spoken, should we just call off the vote?

      Personally I will wait to hear what the pandas have to say.

    125. ronnie anderson says:

      @ msean, try buying a bottle of Methilated Spirits in

      B&Q the machines talk tae ye, asking yer age, jist dont buy

      any straws at the same time.

    126. bookie from hell says:

      Chinese Premier

      “We certainly respect the choice you make.”

      sounds neutral to me

    127. ronnie anderson says:

      Yous Techno geeks mind spread The Wee Ginger Dug Appeal

      across the Internet

    128. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker said: bike nicked

      Sorry to see that, Heedtracker. Insured?

    129. ronnie anderson says:

      %889)()(%£”_+)(F DDOS&^yu

    130. bookie from hell says:

      Do you think so many in the world are saying NO,its now a joke?

    131. ronnie anderson says:

      China,s investment in HS2, noo thats a deal that will hit

      the buffers on Scottish Independance, UK cant guarantee

      future Whisky exports,Diddy Daves britain doesent make

      Scotch Whisky Ha Ha.

    132. heedtracker says:

      Hi Grouse Beater, no insurance but I like 80’s Peugots and Raleighs and they are very cheap plus I don’t have to get the No. 19 Platinum Bus either. I mean that free P&J is an incredible example of a propaganda journalist’s hypocrisy that I could have spared my eye balls. At the very least noone is getting used to be taken for idiots up here.

    133. macart763m says:

      @Clootie and Frances

      Cheers for the link. Better eat ma dinner first. 🙂

    134. Brian Mchugh says:

      Help me guys n gals… did I just see on BBC Reporting Scotland that 41% wanted to keep Trident, while 37% want rid of it?

      If I misheard, then fair enough… but if I didn’t!!!

    135. Liquid Lenny says:

      O/T just tried to donate to wgd care needs on idiegogo only gave me option to pay via credit card, I don’t want to do that, why no paypal or direct debit ?

    136. TJenny says:

      Liquid Lenny – WGD is looking to set up both paypal and a PO box that folk who don’t want to use tinterweb, can send cheques to. He’ll no doubt let us know when that’s up and running.

    137. Ken500 says:

      John Major, hypocrite. There is no where else to put Trident in the UK, so that would be the end.
      They planted Trident in Scotland, but don’t want it near them. How about the Thames? Everything that moves ends up down there.

    138. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Heedtracker, sos about your bike being stolen, look out for Police stolen property auctions,you’ll be able to buy a
      good bike for £10-20.

    139. Liquid Lenny says:

      Tjenny – cheers will wait until its sorted

    140. Ken500 says:

      Chinese will respect any Referendum decision.

      That’s fine. Might be worth some renewable investment.

    141. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T sos Rev.
      Any Wingers spray painters, I need some repairs to my car

      anyone near Airdrie.

    142. ronnie anderson says:

      Ow naw the ither Grey man of politics making a appearance.

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      @ Anas Sarwar
      Quack, quack.

      Would you care to comment?

    144. Fiona says:

      I have just listened to the whole of that debate. As ever, I am struck by the impression that Labour party people live in a different planet from me.

      Most of Mr Sarwar’s contribution took no account of his party’s stated policy of increased austerity or retention of nuclear weapons. As ever the case for the union ignores the fact that all the Westminster parties have had opportunities to implement some of the things he says he wants: and have resolutely refused to do it. At the same time the Scottish Government, within the constraints of devolution have done some of them in Scotland.

      Mr Sarwar may have landed from Mars yesterday: or he may spend his time in the period 1945-1980, and commute to his work by time machine. I live here and I can see that this words are designed to appeal to my values: but I watch what they do…..

    145. Sinky says:


      Well worth reading Derek Bateman on the hypocrisy of Labour politicians over Lallygate and Iraq.

    146. Gav Bain says:

      I just watched the whole debate. Given the off-topic wandering in the thread, and the number of comments already posted by the time I got down here, I am thinking some of you have not watched all the way through yet?

      There is some funky editing in the middle section where Anas gets to make an arse of his point on renewables twice over, either that or I was going cross-eyed and seeing double by that point.

      Quite a contrast between the speakers. Nichola in command of her topics, providing in-depth answers directly relevant to the questions being asked. Anas, clearly clueless on multiple points.

    147. Brian Mchugh says:

      Nah Gav, I saw that too. LOL.

    148. ronnie anderson says:

      ‘ gav bain, yes we did see that, but it is ubecomeing of us

      to mention it, it would be taken as abuse .

    149. Neil Craig says:

      “Actually constitutional politics change nobody’s life – apart from the politician themselves, who gets more power.”

      Well the unconstitutional sort kills people so it is certainly life changing.

      But so does the official sort – with the state spending nearly 60% of the money in the country they couldn’t not change lives if they wanted to.

      At least half of the 35,000 excess winter deaths annually could be saved if the LabNatConDems weren’t actively trying to raise the number. Everybody in Britain would now be 4 times better off if the policies espoused by UKIP had been carried out – how much life changing are you looking for?

    150. Clootie says:


      I have an old bike in the steading. Hasn’t been used in a dozen years. It will need tyres replaced etc . It’s yours if you want it. I’ m at Cruden Bay but I have a van if you are in Aberdeenshire?

    151. rab_the_doubter says:

      Neil Craig,

      Trying to promote UKIP on here – with all due respect, get tae……
      Actually, with the benefit of hindsight I withdraw the ‘with all due respect’ bit.

    152. crazycat says:

      @ Brian Mchugh

      re Trident – typical misrepresentation of polling – possibly deliberate, possibly just because journalists don’t understand polling.

      I got an e-mail from Scottish CND explaining the mistakes – you can read about it on – main article today.

    153. heedtracker says:

      @ Clootie, thanks very much for the offer but I have a spare, until the next one goes:-)

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      I would have thought it would be useful to have an opposing view, so long as it is relevant and adds to the debate? Anyway, anyone still making up their minds, can judge for themselves which vision is more appealing.

      That said, I appreciated your moderation when clearing the phlegm from your chest. Not that I expect you to take any notice of what I’ve got to say. 🙂

      P.S. I wish there was an irony dooda.

      P.P.S. I not knocking Doug Daniel, btw, who’s earlier comment was spot on, IMO.

    155. Alison MacLeod says:

      Thinking the populous of Scotland want to vote for Independence first and come 2016 the party that will serve us best….. in the interim SNP have delivered to get us to this place and we now have this amazing opportunity to vote for what many of us have wanted for decades. Whatever the bitching of eejits lets concentrate on the main goal. YES 🙂

    156. crazycat says:

      @Dorothy Devine
      “Regarding the Slovenian interest , it has been suggested that it is the verbose Jezerna Rosa of Herald fame.”

      Abiesalba has asserted this herself in the Guardian tonight – flushed out by Calgacus MacAndrews, no less.

    157. Andra Murray says:

      Anas was broadcast in HiDef with perfect audio while Nicola was LowDef with crap audio.

    158. Andra Murray says:

      Anas was broadcast in HiDef with perfect audio while Nicola was LowDef with crap audio.

    159. Malcolm says:

      I think Michael Forsyth should be allowed to speak at every debate in Scotland. His bitter London centric “How very dare you?” approach is better than any Yes leaflet at drumming up votes for independance. Thanks, Lord Mikey!!!!

    160. Mike says:

      Sarwar’s common themes throughout his scaremongering ranting was to claim that “Resources are shared across the UK” NO they aint! The vortex that is London and the SE of England sucks in all the resources of the rest of the UK including jobs revenues investments infrastructure priorities etc. He talked as if the UK was an evenly balanced union benefitting us all equally. One big shared melting pot instead of the 4th most uneven state in the world in terms of wealth distribution. Bit like the audience at the debate.
      Why didn’t anybody mention the huge unbalanced factors in the UK? Why didn’t anybody challenge the wealth distribution throughout the UK?
      Sarwar got an easy ride as all the questions were designed to challenge the after effects of Independence and not the after effects of a No vote.

    161. Neil Craig says:


      How do you manage to equate “doubting” with your wish for total censorship of all dissent? Is this an example of the New Scottish Enlightenment which will follow SNP success? It seems endemic in too many of its supporters.

    162. CameronB Brodie says:

      Neil Craig
      The hint was in my desire for an “irony dooda”. Are you completely unobservant or are you making a special effort?

    163. JWil says:

      “We’d have considerably more respect for Scottish Labour MPs (which admittedly isn’t a high bar to clear) if a single one of them admitted their own massive personal vested interest in keeping Scotland in the UK.”

      When I saw this in the piece I tried to imagine Lamont ever getting to London as an MP and immediately tried to dismiss the image as unlikely. However, when we see that Margaret Curran has reached the dizzy heights and has even been rewarded with a shadow Scotland minister position, then anything is possible.

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