The nation’s favourites
From time to time in our Panelbase polls we like to test Scotland’s opinion of its media, since that’s the main focus of our website, and our newest poll was one such time. It found that Scotland’s preferred broadcaster for political coverage was… Channel 4.
The station scored a net +23 rating with respondents, higher than STV (+19), with BBC Scotland trailing in last but still on +16 overall.
The BBC was the only one which had a notable difference in perception between Yes and No voters. C4 got +25 from Nos and a very similar +21 from Yessers, STV was closer still at +20 vs +19, but the BBC had a sizeable gap: just +6 from independence supporters (which is still startlingly high), but a thumping +23 from Unionists.
All broadcasters in Scotland are required by Ofcom rules to be neutral and balanced. We suppose that two out of three more or less managing it isn’t bad.
But the TV outlets did extremely well compared to the printed press. Not a single one could muster a double-digit net positive, though perhaps surprisingly a majority did just barely scrape into the plus scores.
The Guardian: +9 (Yes +5, No +9)
The Scotsman: +4 (Yes -2, No +9)
Sunday Post: +3 (Yes -1, No +5)
The National: +3 (Yes +20, No -12)
The Times: +3 (Yes -7, No +11)
The Herald: +2 (Yes -2, No +4)
Sunday Herald: +1 (Yes +1, No 0)
Daily Record: -8 (Yes -10, No -6)
Scottish Daily Express: -9 (Yes -16, No -5)
Scottish Daily Mail: -12 (Yes -21, No -6)
Scottish Sun: -20 (Yes -17, No -24)
It’s interesting that the papers with the biggest positive scores are also the ones with by far the lowest sales – The Guardian shifts just 8,000 or so copies in Scotland, and the Scotsman barely more. The four with the lowest ratings, meanwhile, are the four best-selling titles of those we surveyed. Go figure.
From the above data we can then deduce – by the gap between Yes and No voters’ perceptions – which Scottish newspapers people think are the most biased:
The National (32-point gap)
The Times (18)
Scottish Daily Mail (15)
Scottish Daily Express (11)
The Scotsman (11)
Scottish Sun (7)
The Herald (6)
Sunday Post (6)
Daily Record (4)
The Guardian (4)
Sunday Herald (1)
It’s perhaps quite interesting that the papers with the biggest and smallest gaps in perception by Yes and No voters are the only two which openly support independence, and which come from the same offices.
And what if we turn this mirror on ourselves?
The most remarkable stat here is that fully 28% of respondents identified themselves as Wings Over Scotland readers (with 27% saying they didn’t read it and a further 45% claiming never to have heard of it).
We should bear in mind that by definition poll respondents tend to be rather more politically engaged than the population at large (because they’ve gone to the trouble of signing up to do political polls) and that skews numbers like these upwards a bit – real turnout in elections, for example, is always considerably lower than polls indicate.
Nevertheless, anything that’s even remotely in that sort of ballpark is still an absolutely phenomenal reach for an openly partisan one-man website that never gets mentioned in the mainstream media except in occasional smear stories.
Our combined don’t read it/never heard of it figure of 72% isn’t all THAT far away from those of the newspapers that have massive staff levels (compared to us, at any rate) and resources, are seen every day on newsstands, get plugged endlessly by multiple daily paper-review shows on TV and radio, and have their writers constantly invited on air as pundits:
Wings Over Scotland: 72%
The National: 66%
Sunday Herald: 58%
The Herald: 53%
Sunday Post: 53%
The Times: 51%
The Scotsman: 51%
Scottish Daily Express: 51%
The Guardian: 49%
Daily Record: 44%
Scottish Daily Mail: 42%
Scottish Sun: 42%
And quite frankly we’re pretty thrilled with that +1 net positive rating, which is better than all four of the best-selling Scottish national newspapers. An especially big shout-out to our six Unionist fans.
WoS …. “never heard of it” … NO voters …. 52%
And therein lies a lot of fertile ground for education, eye opening, and perhaps conversion!
Those 6 ‘unionist fans’ are only saying they were unionist back in Sept 2014. They may well have seen the light since then. We need many more of them…
It is a remarkable achievement Stu. There is a thirst for information out there and still too many being duped by the MSM. This site is a unique and valuable resource.
The positive vibes for BBC Scotland is both stunning (and not in a good way) and depressing.
I have always said the BBC is the single biggest threat to independence and this certainly hasn’t changed my mind.
I often bring up Twitter/internet-trending topics at work (rape clause, Tory election fraud, UN human rights comments on UK policies, DWP wrongdoings, power grab, immigrations stats etc) and my BBC-reliant colleagues have usually never even heard of them.
Read all about it! [On the internet]
28% of Scotland reads this blog? The question asked about attitudes towards Wings Over Scotland not if they read it or not.
I have a negative opinion of the daily mail – does that make me a daily mail reader?
Faulty logic.
It’s always difficult to say what some of these numbers tell you about printed newspapers. I would assume that you buy a newspaper because it gels with your political views, so you would tend give it a positive score, especially if it has a low circulation.
Don’t know how this opinion squares with the bigger sales negative score, maybe it’s people who just buy a newspaper and that’s the best one the can find (may even be they like the sports section).
Good to see Wings positive result, though it looks like the no voters are not as convinced.
galamcennalath,
Snap! Exactly my immediate reaction when I saw it!
Interesting. The Graun has more support among no voters, pretendy lefty rag, no friend of Scotland so not surprised at all and their stats for sales, well, they don’t represent Scotland at all.
Wouldn’t touch the Graun or other daily rags with a bargepole, or any of the daily brainwashing moving pics piped into peoples’ living rooms, they are just too biased and can’t be trusted. The National is ok.
When the question, ‘political coverage’ is asked, I wonder what people thought when answering? Politics is taboo in some quarters, it’s such an emotive issue for people, they don’t want to discuss it imo. So do most people get their ideas about it mostly from the media, or do they discuss it with people of similar persuasions?
What do most people base their politics on? It can’t be facts, because it’s very difficult to get the real facts in the so called media, about Scotland in particular, except for Wings over Scotland, of course. 🙂
I wonder what people consider to be ‘political’ in the main. They see snippets of PMQ’s, and maybe sometimes FMQ’s on tv, but that’s about all?
The people of Scotland are generally more engaged as we know,
and that’s a good thing. I am wittering on now. Have a nice sunny day all.
No voters…the hardcore…won’t even read a link if they see it’s from Wings…that’s how closed minded they are. It’s the undecided that will have a wee peek…then when they realise the water’s actually not shark infested as they’ve been led to believe…they stay.
Ergo Wings has an effective solid and growing base…no one leaves…even if many drop off, those of us who read daily like a paper, keep loads of friends informed and correct a lot of the phoney stuff from the msm from what we read on here.
Ah literally consider this as our mission…to get the facts out there and effectively undermine the msm narrative. It’s working too. And that’s why msm attack Stu/Wings all the live long day…. 🙂
“28% of Scotland reads this blog? The question asked about attitudes towards Wings Over Scotland not if they read it or not.”
There were options both for “I don’t read it” and “I’ve never heard of it”. Anyone who doesn’t read it and ticked one of the other options did the poll wrong. (Or, and in fairness let’s not rule this out entirely, is a fucking imbecile who forms opinions about stuff they haven’t seen and is prepared to admit that fact.)
Wings Twitter is also good. That’s where I came across this link to Andrew Tickell’s insightful article in The National on the UKSC and the Scotland Act. Well worth a read, as are the btl comments.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1015197055885684736
The temperature is definitely rising to spontaneous combustion levels.
In view of the democratic deficit, I think it would be a good idea for the SNP to change its name to the Scottish Democracy Party. That would have a side benefit of upsettting characters like J K Rowling and spiking all the smears of the “Nats” as well as make it crystal clear what the issue is.
Yes, were not short of fucking imbeciles.
Geoff Huijer says:
6 July, 2018 at 12:21 pm
The positive vibes for BBC Scotland is both stunning (and not in a good way) and depressing.
I have always said the BBC is the single biggest threat to independence and this certainly hasn’t changed my mind.
I’m with you 100% Geoff. There are an awful lot of people out there still lapping up BBC propaganda and feeling good about it. I myself can barely listen to a word the BBC utters without my blood beginning to boil. These people just don’t see the enemy right there in their living rooms.
The good thing is once you see the bias, you cannot “un-see” it. The process of seeing UK propaganda is a one-way revelation and process. It will be a cold day in Hell if I ever trust the BBC again, and thank heavens, for all the trust it still enjoys, the perception that the BBC is rotten to the core is much more commonplace than it was in 2014.
Clearly however a lot more work needs to be done. YES needs some Heineken to reach the parts that haven’t been reached.
“There were options both for “I don’t read it” and “I’ve never heard of it”. Anyone who doesn’t read it and ticked one of the other options did the poll wrong. (Or, and in fairness let’s not rule this out entirely, is a fucking imbecile who forms opinions about stuff they haven’t seen and is prepared to admit that fact.)”
More faulty logic.
Somebody could have read this blog in the past and formed an opinion, then stopped reading it.
It’s a poor question and a poor interpretation of the responses.
Newspaper reading is a dying habit, literally. See who buys the print version of the Daily and you see a generation on the verge of extinction. One could argue reading is going the same way. If you can’t tweet it, it’s not worth the bother. Comprehension of what some papers call ‘the long read’ requires an effort way beyond the capability of many. The ‘long read’ is the standard in many continental European journals, it’s where ideas are elaborated. Some things just cant be reduced to a tweet. Politicians take note.
I watch my contemporaries scrolling on their phone, pictures, pictures. Post literacy is here.
@Capella
The National Democratic party?
Would literally scotch any pretentions from the unionist camp that the UK is a nation and a true democracy in the meaningful sense of the terms.
OT.
Having recently moved house I called in at the office of my MSP on Wednesday to seek help with a Council problem, ongoing since early April of this year, the lady I spoke to proved very helpfull.
On that day it may be recalled the newspaper headlines were wall to wall screaming of an imminent sever drought, this reminded me of what took place when the electricity supply industry was set up as a national grid and we all know how that has turned out for Scotland. I took the opportunity of requesting the lady to put my concerns to my SNP MSP on the quango, Scottish Water, that they do not sell Scotland down the river {pun intended} with a national grid for the water industry, benefitting you know who.
I would request that others bring this matter up with their elected representatives before we get presented with an irreversable sellout by the said quango.
Reading of books is shared. £Billion sales. Successful series. Outlander etc.
Thank goodness for the internet. Global exchange. Education widening. Mass expansion in communication.
Scotland one of the first countries in the world to have tertiary education. The Enlightenment. Scottish invention. TV radio, telecommunications leading to the internet. One of the best education system in the world.
The Sunday Herald openly said it doesn’t support Independence, unless I’m having a memory lapse.
The four with the lowest ratings, meanwhile, are the four best-selling titles of those we surveyed. Go figure.
———————————————————
People that read the four with the lowest ratings don’t do political polls?
We need “Wings over Scotland” bumper stickers.
As has been pointed out on WoS before, people may buy a paper for many reasons other than its political coverage, which they may not even believe.
Though the exposure may have some insidious effect anyway, as could the damned headlines on any innocent passing by to make some other purchase.
Or conversely, simply reinforce an existing poor opinion, as in my case with The “Scottish” Daily Express. It’s headline is normally so politically unhinged that I can scarcely cast a glance at it each day without a (muted) guffaw. Why the comic didn’t come bottom of the poll I just can’t understand.
There is no doubt that many people have not noticed the bias on both bbc and stv but once you notice one thing you begin to see for yourself. For example I asked someone today why it was that when the trains down south go into melt down no one on the bbc calls for any ministers head yet it is frequently done in Scotland even when the problem is weather related.
Another example recently was Andrea Leadsom moaning about the snp holding votes when the England football game was on but failing to mention that it is she who makes up the parliamentary timetable.
Ask why bbc does not corner RD over the ‘dark money’ scandal when if it were any other party (esp snp) they would be doorstepping all day long until they got someone. Ask people why tories are hardly interrupted on radio and TV but snp spokespersons often don’t get finishing a sentence.
Little things like that when mentioned that people can check for themselves promotes thinking and noticing and once you begin to do that you can’t help but carry on.
Many of us have been lulled into a false sense of security and just believe the bbc without questioning. We should all know about the influences and biases of newspapers but again people see the headlines and believe them.
How about a crowdfunded for Wings poster sites?
Hi
The Tree of Liberty at 2:55 pm.
You typed,
“We need “Wings over Scotland” bumper stickers.”
Window stickers have been available from the Ayemail stall and the ‘unofficial’ “Friends of Wings Over Scotland” stall at the rallies this year.
Also available via SnailMail:-
https://www.ayemail.scot/store/?group_id=13
winifred McCartney says:
Exactly. I completely agree. Once someone sees a few things which they personally know are dodgy, they start to think more closely about others.
There are some folks who have deep set beliefs and will filter and contort incoming info to fit with their world view. They are hard to ‘crack’.
However, there are many others who simply haven’t seen through it all, yet. They accept what they see, hear and read in the media because not so long ago far more of us did.
Once eyes and ears are opened, they never can be closed again. You can’t un-see or un-hear things.
One important consequence of this is … their eyes can be opened about issues other than the constitutional debate in Scotland. Perhaps it’s even better if the enlightenment occurs on other stories like the Middle East, or dark money, or other areas where the media protect the state line. Once you doubt and query something, you start to doubt and query everything.
Brian who went doon the toon, hows it going? Long time no see, hope everything is well, its windae stickers on the aye mail site, not bumper stickers, We need bumper stickers, i want to put them on fairing of racing and road going motorcycles, nae windaes on a bike and they dont stick to the perspex of a bike fairing at 150mph 🙂
Brian, cheers, ordered.
@galamcennalath says: “ Once someone sees a few things which they personally know are dodgy, they start to think more closely about others.
Yes, and we should do this about non-Indy things, such as defence which I do, even if it “favours” the UK, it still highlights poor reporting – such as the QE leak of 200 litres an hour, just 200Kg, which was apparently going to sink a 65,000 tonne, 65 million Kg aircraft carrier fitted with many pumps!
Never heard of rating is just the panelbase team pulling your leg Stu.
Say something outrageous. England football based preferably.
The QE leak was notable for the near orgasmic delight in attempts to pin the blame on Scotland for a module that wasn’t built here.
Mmm, well, one answer to my question is that she’s designed to have a displacement of 70,000 tonnes over her lifetime, so that’s 5,000 tonnes spare, which means at least 5,000 tonnes of water would have to leak in, 5,000,000 Kg, and ignoring sea water being heavier than water (average 1.027 density), that’s 200 litres for 25,000 hours – 1,000 days, 3 years solid.
Mmm, sometimes I can’t help myself. I’ll check the DT, DM, DE and BBC in 3 years time to see if she’s sunk yet. They’re reliable sources of 100% accurate researched information.
I would have found it difficult to answer the question on BBC Scotland. In total 40% of those survey had either a broadly negative view or didn’t watch it at all.
I have a very negative view of BBC Reporting Scotland and I suspect that would have been the answer I would give. I don’t watch it either though, since I refuse to pay the telly tax precisely because I have such a negative view of all television news coverage.
I’m guessing many others feel the same and although they don’t watch it actually may have answered that they had a “broadly negative” view instead?
Simply because they do, whether they watch it or not.
The bbc have been very blatant in their lies since the Indy ref.
However they can also be very subtle. I notice a lot of people are taken in by the programmes about benefit scroungers, they can’t see that these programmes are there to turn them into Tory thinkers and to distract them from the billionaires, royals and plutocrats of the British establishment who don’t pay a penny in tax and live of the backs of the working poor.
BBC = BritNat Brainwashing Channel
Interesting information Stu. Well done also for your efforts.
Meanwhile, newspaper circulation figures…
@orri
If you really really want to see some anti-Clyde and anti-SNP and anti-Scottish hype, read this and some comments. Best put anything breakable away safely.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-tyne-to-be-reactivated-as-now-delayed-offshore-patrol-vessel-fleet-faults-worse-than-feared/#comment-423262
I see this has been added since:
“UPDATE: We had reported that HMS Forth was to be dry docked to rectify issues and that she had been handed back to BAE Systems, BAE have since told us that this isn’t correct.”
Who says there’s any anti-Scottish shit flying around? JKR?
Anybody that watches the BBC network can see the bias, suspect they don’t even realise it. It is the sneer whenever any SNP story is mentioned, double sneer if Nicola Sturgeon. What else do you expect when one of their top political presenters is reduced to using twitter troll naming references to the First Minister, but give him his due he stuck to nippy, I wonder if he was really thinking krankie.
The most amusing thing about This Week if you have ever watched it for years is how few of their predictions come to pass. Portillo has a particularly poor record, still waiting on Greece crashing out of the Euro that he predicted in 2011 I think, ‘It was inevitable, just a matter of when’. Rarely watch it now, took too long to realise it was mostly BS.
@jfngw
This Week is very similar to Spitting Images but with “real” people.
O/T Very good piece by Ian Dunt on Brexit and well worth a read.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/06/week-in-review-wherever-brexiters-look-they-see-dead-ends
@Thepnr
Thanks for that link… Confirms what the dog in the street and we all know. 🙂
Well, here we are 9 months away from the cliff edge, and only some 3 months now from the point where the UK is supposed to have a definitive agreement with the EU27 that has then to be ratified by every member country (in that so-called “undemocratic superstate”), and we’re currently presented with the spectacle of the Tories holed up in Chequers and arguing like ferrets in a sack about what kind of fatuous agreement upon which they might just possibly be able to muster a fragile agreement. One that will in any case be unacceptable to the EU27, as it has long signalled.
Now in what universe can that be regarded as anything but a complete guddle, a total abdication of responsibility?
Oh, wait a minute, the universe of the BritNat press and the BBC, of course.
“Somebody could have read this blog in the past and formed an opinion, then stopped reading it.”
The question is in the present tense. If you don’t read it NOW then the correct response is still “I don’t read it”. But “identified themselves as Wings Over Scotland readers” has no indication of tense and would include past readers.
As a matter of course every time I am in a supermarket, or a newsagent, I scan the front pages. One needs to have a regular dose of depression, so pleased to read Wings antidote.
Still in the SNP after 52 years:-)
A need for heads together with likes of Lesley Riddoch’s team to find how to reach those nos who neither know your site her message, or common weal, women for indy messages.
Then we havs a chance of educating nos.
The BBC is good at what it does. It sticks to the Unionist line and ‘disses’ all who dare to be ‘deviant’.
In the old Soviet Union there was a main news transmitted at 21hrs called Vremya, it did exactly the same thing. No one took it seriously either.
@ Thepnr – we’ll find out soon about how the Chequers team building exercise has gone (maybe). Ian Dunt seems to be convinced that a softer BREXIT will be the outcome. But that won’t wash with the Rees Moggs of the Tory Party.
As RJS comments above – they are fighting like ferrets in a sack. No offence to ferrets intended.
OR just read a Rowling tweet about Anglophobia.
Tweeted pics of English for Yes and pics of George Square Nazi saluting duds.
Within 2 minutes, I can’t access Twitter.
How does that happen?
OR? Meant to be OT.
yesindyref2 at 4:22pm.
Thanks. That was an interesting article, so I had a browse. The ‘lets do Scotland down’ article was interesting, particularly the comments. But.. this has to be the scary article. The UK is screwed.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/a-short-analysis-what-does-the-private-security-sector-have-to-offer-the-mod/
What will Labour & Libdems say if the Tories strike down the continuity bill after losing in the Supreme Court. This could only pass if MP’s from England, Wales & NI vote for it. This is then MP’s from England voting on devolved Scottish Laws whilst Scottish MP’s are barred from voting on English laws.
If they can’t back Scotland under those circumstances then they never will. And by backing that means backing independence if necessary, not just some weaselly statements but just accepting the situation.
O/T
Is David Mundell at this meeting in Chequers?
Asking for a friend
Hi Lenny.
Still hingin’ in there.
Inverness? Dundee, 18th August?
I heard 28 cabinet ministers will be attending the Hawtrey room meeting with PM May, shurley schome mishtake if Fluffy is AWOL.
28 Jings! That’s the same as the number of countries in the EU 28.
Funny old world init! 🙁
No leaks from the proceedings so far as I’ve heard and it might be a lock in so it could take some time.
@Legerwood
There are a list of 29 members of the cabinet who will be attending and how they are expected to line up in the following link. David Mundell is one of them.
He is described as one of 6 “Pro-EU compromisers” with Phillip Hammond at the top.
http://archive.fo/kI1W0
Hi Brian , would like to do Inverness, but will need to see how funds are.,
@call me dave
Just saw your post, the 29 I mentioned includes Theresa May and the Tory Chief Whip.
OK thanks for that. I couldn’t be bothered to look tbh because I don’t think they will come up with a solution that will meet any EU criteria.
Back to the snooker qualifiers…for a wee while.
I know from a very long observation of people’s newspaper reading in what used to be the largest, (single location), employer in Scotland. At that time my work took me to ever nook and corner of Rosyth Dockyard including even places not actually Dockyard but situated within the Dockyard area.
I was employed on maintenance with Yard Services and, working a nominal shift pattern but with lots of unsociable hours call-outs I experienced those reading habits 24/7/365.
It has to be said that many, I’d hazard most, people detested reading political matters and some would scan briefly the front page, skip to page 3 on their way to the horse/dog/fitba section and studied that in greatest detail for the rest of the day. Many dipping in and out before and after each horse/dog race time. They could tell you the odds on every animal in every race but fail to know who held any other office of government than, (perhaps), the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
Strangely enough these were usually the same people who could reel of, in exact numeric order, the top twenty tunes of the week and could tell you how the characters in the several soap operas were getting on – both off and on the television screens.
Now don’t get me wrong, these people were not stupid or uneducated – they just were turned right off from politics but strangely, although having absolutely no faith whatsoever that any particular political party did anything whatsoever to benefit other than the politicians themselves, they classed the SNP as even worse that all the unionists of Westminster.
I kid you not, as an outspoken advocate of the SNP I was often regarded more or less like the worst kind of Muslim is treated today – sometimes even openly accused of being a terrorist, or more likely as a potential ("Tractor" - Ed) of the United Kingdom.
@Thepnr 7.57
I suppose someone has to make the tea.
Robertknight,
BNBC has a good ring to it.
British
Nationalist
Broadcasting
Corporation
A bit like The BORG,
Biggoted
Orangemen
Running
Government
Legerwood says “Is David Mundell at this meeting in Chequers?”
If I was the Secretary of State FOR Scotland (looking out for Scotland) I would demand my place at this meeting.
As it is, he may be invited as he is no friend of Scotland. Just another Tory at the WM trough.
O/T Fairly ragin’ these days.(joined the SNP after the walk out)
David Cameron can fcuk a dead pigs head.
David Mundell can eat his beard in full view in the HOC.
Theresa May’s loss of 100 files relating to WM kiddy fiddlers.
86 (or there abouts) Members of the house of lords have criminal records.
Tory Dark Money during elections.
Alistair Carmichael wastes £1m of taxpayers money – with his lies
Bliar, Dewar and Betty steal 6000sq miles of Scotland’s Seas and move them to England.
This list is endless.
Yet the SNP or SG drop a crisp packet and the BBC & MSM run for it for weeks/months and in Michele Thompson’s case a full year even although there was NO wrong doing on her part.
Sick to my stomach of all the shite we have to endure day after day, just because we want our Country to govern itself and make our own way in the world as we did 300 years ago.
Apologies for rant but definitely – HAD ENOUGH #DissolveTheUnion
@Thepnr
From that listL “David Mundell (Scottish Secretary): Campaigned for Remain – and represents by far the most pro-EU nation of the UK.”
That’s a DAMNED lie.
“represents”? More like resents.
Just watched the Brazil Belgium game. Good grief Brazil!. If Neymar had spent less time farting around looking for a penalty and just pass the ball I think Brazil would have won that although some poor finishing didn’t help either. Last 30 minutes Belgium hardly saw the ball.
I wonder if Russia will win this 🙂
@yesindyref2
Wouldn’t disagree with you there. Also interesting is that the most well known names are all Brexiteers, maybe with the only exception being Philip Hammond. Just shows who the MSM report on.
Anyway, has anybody any idea of the score at Chequers now 🙂
May has spoken. the Cabinet agreed to continue trading with the EU in goods but not services but are going to end free travel. No word on Irish border.
Do they know about the 4 pillars? Goods, capital, services AND people? Somebody phone them up and tell them.
“I wonder if Russia will win this ?”
Haven’t watched a single game ‘cos I couldn’t care less about football. But you know what, it might be nice for the host nation to win – given all the ‘Russia Bad’ they’ve had to endure.
Together with the fact they were considered the underdogs and by all accounts have done well to come this far in the game.
ha ha – BBC initial report on the Chequers meeting reads like a complete guddle of ifs and buts. How the EU will deal with this will be interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44747444
@Capella
I reckon they were all watching Belgium beat Brazil and only when Belgium won and the fudge was finished did they agree with each other LOL
Here’s the Guardians take on it.
http://archive.fo/IslY5
@Shinty (8.35) –
Hear hear.
It does become overwhelming at times, the glacial pace of it all, but there’s not much we can do about that.
In any event, don’t despair, we’re nearly there!
😉
The cherry pickers want to pick some cherries ….
https://mobile.twitter.com/IanBlackfordMP/status/1015327291591839744
“This is the cherry picking that the EU has made clear will not be allowed to proceed.”
Ah, I get it, they’re trying to put the “Rex” into Brexit.
Next on the agenda is Scunthorpe.
@ Thepnr – try reading the BBC version out loud with a straight face!
But there is the last paragraph:
Which is probably going to be the outcome. Certainly the Belgians wlll be too preoccupied tonight to care.
The Guardian goes into the background gossip a bit more – which is interesting. I’m looking forward to the Rees Mogg reaction.
And for the football fans – the England/Sweden match. What a weekend of unrivalled splendour.
@galamcennalath
No. Thaaat’s not going to end well for them. The EU have been utterly consistent on the issue for the past two years. The four freedoms are not an a la carte menu.
It’s all or……nothing.
Guardian (and others) …. “Theresa May has secured approval to negotiate a soft Brexit deal with the European Union”
Firstly, not soft as most people would recognise that description. The UK economy is 70% services and proposal is to exclude this. This is not single market for everything and free movement that goes with that, which would be soft.
Secondly, the EU have rejected anything like this for two years now. They might pretend to consider it, but rejection again seems inevitable.
Still, TMay might consider it successful because the can has been kicked down the road for another month.
yesindyref2 says:
6 July, 2018 at 8:47 pm
@Thepnr
From that listL “David Mundell (Scottish Secretary): Campaigned for Remain – and represents by far the most pro-EU nation of the UK.”
………………
That jumped out at me too when I read it.
At the beginning of the Brexit negotiations Mundell was definitely excluded from the inner cabinet group tasked with dealing with Brexit.
Now I guess there is enough sh*t they can spread it round everyone.
I’ve just read the three page statement from the Ian Blackford link provided by galamcennalath.
Hahahahhahaha. It’s a wish list!
Looks like a great deal for the UK only one little problem acceptence of this deal will be the end of the EU. All 27 countries will want their own deal too, after all the UK got one LOL.
It’s really pathetic, the EU will dump this before the ink on the White paper is even dry. Never mind, no resignations tonight at least and the can has been kicked down the road for another few weeks.
Lot’s to look forward to, first the Supreme Court decision on Scotland, also then EU trade bil and by then the dark nights will be drawing in again and the halfwits running the UK will have run out of time.
We’re screwed, all hands on deck, man the lifeboats and get us off this sinking stinking vessel onto good ship Independence.
I see the Grunionist is running with the irrelevant side show that is the Rowling Twitter hand bags at 20 paces as their main Scottish story.
This is news? JK Rowling hates the SNP with every fibre of her being and it eats her up as much as the hate of the followers of thon numpty jailed recently (whose name I can’t be arsed googling). She won’t stop because hate does that to a person. It drives the horses on with a long whip. I get the feeling that she has settled for Brexit and the Tories over an independent Scotland. That says more about her than than us.
Capella @ 21:35,
Many thanks for the link. It’s woeful self-deluded reading. Cherry-picking season is still with us, it seems.
The UKGov seems to be taking the tack that “we’ll play along with your requirements, vile old EU27, but we reserve the right to slowly unpick it as we please later”.
The particular sentence that caught my eye was:
There will surely be a “normally” slipped in there somewhere.
Barnier & Co. seem very astute, though, so probably don’t need to be warned from our experience that anything not legally hard-nailed down to the floor before Brexit will likely not remain there for very long afterwards.
Capella @ 21:35,
Is this our old pal Sevvy at it again? “Handbags at 20 yards” seems very much his style. =laugh=
The UK may be in constitutional upheaval over its Scottish colony, but Jakey and injured establishment feelings in general rule at the Groan.
treeza has issued her statement
more cake but with some tablet too….
her last attempt was blown out of the water on twitter by barnier and verhofstad in less than an hour, i wonder how long this fantasy will last?
thing is, after all the hype and dithering, this is it, there wont be anymore fudge, this is d day. westminster just failed to negotiate a deal…….
so now we know what brexit means
re JK Rowling
The arts and entertainment industry draws people with liberal/left political viewpoints. This is good, particularly in the UK, as it allows alternative views to be expressed that wouldn’t get aired in the almost right wing media here. However, here the entertainment industry has strong links to the Labour party.
The best way to keep your career going in the entertainment industry is through publicity and to an extent networking, one such avenue is politics. You make the right noises and you get publicity from the remaining left leaning papers like the Guardian and above all the critics don’t pan you.
JK Rowling is virtual signalling to her peer group. She has invented a yarn where she is the constant victim of Nasty SNP/Scottish Nationalist thugs and fighting a battle against the forces of evil nationalism which threatens the progressive agenda of the Labour party.
She always pops up with this when she has a project or new book on the go. The thing to do is to ignore her. All you are doing is giving her free oxygen and in doing so, putting even more money in her pockets.
me at 22:08,
Oops. More editing floobers.
Apologies, the reference there should be HandandShrimp @ 21:49, not Capella in that instance. Apologies to both!
@ RJS – I can’t decide which WC final would be more entertaining – England/France or England/Belgium followed by some VIP having to attend the ceremony.
Once Mr Barnier and Mr Verhofstadt pick themselves up off the floor they will probably get round to tweeting about it.
To me it has all the hallmarks of a no deal. Without freedom of movement nothing else will be accepted.
It’s over!!
barnier
i welcome this new tatement but will need to review it before commenting
ie, its late friday night, ill let you watch tommorrows match nefore rejecting it
George Orwell essay `HOW A NATION IS EXPLOITED – THE BRITISH EMPIRE IN BURMA` 1929,
https://tinyurl.com/yc9lykkx
if you change Burma to Scotland it would still read accurately.
Burma Oil now part of BP was founded by Scotsman David Sime Cargill,
In 1923, the company gave £5,000 (£236,000 in 2011 money) to future Prime Minister Winston Churchill to lobby the British government to allow them sole control over oil resources in Persia.
PacMan @ 22:11,
Or “victim signalling” even.
That was one of the ploys the Labourites tried on in 2014. Mad Murph positively inviting the eggs and the face-offs with that idiot wossisname.
Playing the puir wee abused underdog didn’t work then, and the more we know about the BT dirty dosh from dodgy dealers (Jakey excepted, of course), the less likely it will be to work next time either.
Jakey is treading a fine line. She’s as entitled as anyone to have an opinion and support whomever and whatever she pleases, but if she pushes her luck and popularity too far against the public grain, and starts picking fights with everyone, she could easily end up looking like some rich over-sensitive English settler type telling the Scottish plebs to sit down, shut up and obey your betters. Not a good look. Especially for a supposed Labourite.
Big Jock says:
6 July, 2018 at 10:16 pm
To me it has all the hallmarks of a no deal. Without freedom of movement nothing else will be accepted.
It’s over!!
===========
i think you might be right. we just reached the end game
@PacMan: rings pretty true.
“She has invented a yarn where she is the constant victim of Nasty SNP/Scottish Nationalist thugs and fighting a battle against the forces of evil nationalism which threatens the progressive agenda of the Labour party.”
Sounds like a plot line from one of her tedious sub-Tolkien/C.S.Lewis/Jennings and Darbishire/Tom Brown’s Schooldays efforts.
Meanwhile, in other news, looks like Tory crash-out and burn.
> Without freedom of movement nothing else will be accepted.
I agree. FoM was always key to a ‘good deal’.
Indeed the Brexit lie was predicated on ending FoM but maintaining single market benefits.
FWIW : EU already refused identical Swiss proposals in 2016.
The question is will the Tory lunatics accept soft Brexit ?
No deal likely means general election and a Corbyn government. So the ball could yet bounce many ways.
Either way – this proposal will not be accepted by EU as it stands.
I really liked this sentence from the Independent.
“Her plan is not so much cherry picking the single market, it is an attempt to hijack about a fifth of the entire cherry stockpile.”
LOL
Oops, forgot the link, maybe laughing too much.
http://archive.fo/hadkC
@TC –
It’s difficult to tell whether JK is acting on principle because there is scant evidence of it in ‘her’ work. So far as I’ve been able to tell from analysis of her stuff (which I’m bound to rely upon as I can’t bear reading it first-hand) her entire oeuvre is based on the protagnist(s) exacting revenge against ever-more diabolical foes.
In which case, shouldn’t she be a fervent supporter of any nation/group opposing the cornered, wounded (therefore very *very* dangerous) British Empire?
Ach, naw, wait, I forgot…she’s Joanne Rowling CH, OBE, FRSL, FRCPE etc…
🙁
Power Grab, what Power Grab
If Agriculture is to remain with Brussels, If our food and product standards are to remain tied to the EU.
There can’t be a trade deal with the US. As they would demand we accept their food standards.
Then Where’s the reason for the power grab. There is none. Other than the Tories thirst to stamp all over Holyrood.
JK Rowling = Katie Hopkins
Anything for publicity and money money money.
Actually, I’m not laughing, I’m getting really angry. Theresa May is betraying everyone, the Leavers, the Remainers, the DUP. Everyone.
The Cabinet Brexiteers realised they had just run out of road, and capitulated, every single one of them.
May’s own personal red line is, and always has been, the ECJ. So provided she can escape that by some suitable piece of jiggery-pokery with the assistance of the EU, I’m not sure she cares that much about anything else, Just so long as the Tories can appear to remain in charge.
So after the upcoming fast-track negotiations, the UK will be in the SM/CU, at least for an unforseeable period (fudge), except it won’t be called that, but some fancy name to dress it up. But SM/CU it will be anyway.
With one bound she will be free. And leave behind her a complete minefield of issues that will lie in wait to consume whoever succeeds her over many years to follow.
To avoid these many travails to come, we have a handy door. We just have to open it and step through.
What a rich comedic seam has opened up in this post Chequers era. The Independent article is having fun with all the new terminology.
We are to end free movement of people but will, instead, have a “mobility framework”.
Does she mean a zimmer?
The EU will tell Treeza that Cherry Picking is not allowed.
Why do the Tories keep coming up with Brexit ideas that the EU have repeatedly told them are non starter.
Treeza is want a little piece of this and a little piece of that sprinkled with fairy dust.
Your White Paper will get rejected AGAIN by the EU Treeza.
England out of Europe with NO DEAL is now the most likely outcome and it kicks in on the 29th March 2019.
You get the feeling that IndyRef2 is going to be a very short Campaign indeed.
Rock (28th June 2017 – “Slight reprise”):
“The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”
@ Ian Brotherhood: I suppose her “success” just shows that highly derivative sub-Gothic can always find a market if the “gatekeepers” publish it. The first in the series was a naïve kid’s book and the final ones over-blown and pretentious stuff, expressed in leaden and cliched prose. The best of them in the middle were still niche teen fiction.
Meanwhile, think of all the Scottish novels languishing in a thousand drawers, discounted for being too provincial/difficult/controversial/proletarian by our colonisers.
It’s the Union Dividend.
@Robert J. Sutherland
I’m not laughing either but no point in crying at how ridiculous this all is. This can never be agreed with the EU unless it already has or at least most of it and that the last two years have been a con job on the UK public.
Do you see what I’m getting at?
Maybe that’s a conspiracy theory too far though I can’t help feeling that the last two years have been a waste of time for a specific reason and that is to wear the public down.
Have they colluded? Did May and Merkel have a good chuckle last night? Now I am sounding paranoid but I’d guess the money markets will tell us. Nothing that big could ever be kept secret for too long.
Keep your eye on, not the pound but the dollar as no deal will weaken both the pound and the euro by quite a bit.
@ TC – there are many famous examples of successful sub genre scribblers. Mills & Boon superstar Barbara Cartland springs to mind.
@Capella says: 6 July, 2018 at 9:05 pm@
” … Do they know about the 4 pillars? Goods, capital, services AND people? Somebody phone them up and tell them.”
Pointless exercise, Capella, the Entire EU parliament and the entire European Commission plus most of the Non-English news media has been telling them that for years but they seem to all, including the remainers in the Tory Party seem to have a strange form of selective deafness.
Don’t they know that No cheery picking means no cherry picking?
Sinn Fein none too happy either it seems.
I’m still awaiting the Scottish Governments comments. That should be good and no doubt measured as they should be.
Hmm. A ‘mobility network’ which will allow EU citizens to travel to and work in the UK, and vice versa. Plus ca change.
The UK was never in the Schengen Zone, so was not a signatory to true freedom of movement: that only existing in reality for us within the Common Travel Area encompassing Ireland and the UK.
I just get the feeling this is a re-wording of the UK’s special status quo, and perhaps a transfer of responsibility for enforcing the 90-day rule away from the Home Office (who never bothered), and into the capable hands of private enterprise. What an opportunity.
Could be wrong, though, and the EU just says fuck off.
@Thepnr –
The tragic/comic reality of Tory-Brexit, personified in Clive Dunn’s ‘Corporal Jonesy’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0lOtdvqyg
Aye Ian not like the old days when we had a leader with balls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP6CbYu3T7Y
Thepnr @ 11.22
I’ve had the feeling that the public have been getting pushed up a greasy poll for the past two years as well.
They have kept the countries of the Uk as divided and unsure of what is going on as they were the day after the vote.
I have no real idea of what they hope to actually achieve but they do seem to be getting everyone in to the position that they will accept whatever the final deal is.While thinking it could have been worse but Westminster got it sorted.
Governments do that all the time, they take up an outrageous position that the public rail against, then dial it back to what they really wanted to do in the first place.
Machiavelli 101!
The only thorn in their side is Scotland & N Ireland , and it looks like they want to get rid of N. Ireland and to bind Scotland, Brexit has given them an opening to try!
@Thepnr –
🙂
Cheers for that, hadn’t seen it before.
Difficult to imagine satire of that quality being produced now, when we really need it.
@Liz g
Yup, and how better to do it than to leak so called secret assessments telling us how food would run out in two weeks and hospitals going without medicines.
That last point recently revisted with the head of the NHS explaining last weekend on telly that that were looking at everything to ensure supplies. Then the ante is upped and Airbus, BMW and Jaguar step into the breech to remind us all of closing factories, lost jobs and no investment.
Bleak Bleak and more Bleak.
But wait! There’s Chequers Hurrah Hurrah they’ve agreed and we’re all saved. And just why wasn’t the opposition taking advantage of this under Corbyn rather than becoming perpetual abstainers?
The thing is only that they’re not saved, if it was all a con then not everybody was in on the act and the Leave voters might just have the last laugh.
A Scottish two-year old’s take on UK politics;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulf82uRT3bA
@Smallaxe
Most politically aware electorate in the world right enough 🙂
Dial it up, then bring it down. Just one notch above where it was. What a relief.
@ Smallaxe
My god, the verbal IQ of that wee girl is sky-high.
On a more serious note, I think it obviously matters how this Brexit deal pans out for the prospects of Scottish Independence and that the Scottish Government have been proven right in what they’ve always said.
Wait and see until the Brexit position is clear, and it just might be there’s a while to wait yet in case another rabbit is pulled out of the hat that would halt us in our tracks.
We’re still on the right road, Nicola Sturgeon knows what she’s doing, that’s for sure. Compared to the other lot huh!
Jakey’s certainly flakey, success has gone to her head, her format appeals to the weans as the parents have to be got rid of & the weans top the bill. The tried & tested English Public School scenario does this perfectly, it’s Billy Bunter with a magic wand!
Europe now has to work out whether May’s Government is being disingenuous, or is genuinely delusional. Who am I kidding? Europe doesn’t need to work out any such thing.
It’s a No Deal Hard Brexit on the way. The EU will now be on damage limitation mode, with all due care and attention given to isolating the EU from whatever problems and instability the UK might conceivably cause.
This “deal” with her own Cabinet, currently being spun so hard by the Propaganda merchants, clearly isn’t meant for any constructive European consumption, but instead it is for domestic consumption, pandering to the Brexiteers but also looking to excommunicate the Hard Brexit mouthpieces like Rees-Mogg and Farage.
May keeps leavers content(ish) with promises of a Soft Brexit, (delusion kept alive), but she also rounds up moderate Brexiteers who were losing their nerve over an ultra-Hard Brexit. May has played the percentage game, and probably done enough to leave Rees-Mogg with a small Pretorian Guard of Hard Brexit Diehards, but with his undiluted Hard Brexit now considered too extreme by the majority.
I repeat however, this is purely a UK political development, because Europe is going to stand firm by its Four Freedoms, just as it always has.
May is setting up the con. She is “playing” the UK. May is setting up the UK for a Hard Brexit which the “sainted” UK Government tried to avoid but which the beastly Europeans wouldn’t agree to. Any why? Well, with Europe smeared as the enemy, the UK is reluctantly “forced” to trade with its traditional soul-mate, the USA… and “reluctantly” obliged to accept chlorinated chickens, sold off NHS, deregulated standards and all the rest.
Britain’s Hard Brexit blamed on European intransigence is the sugar coating around the bitter pill of a very shabby American Trade Agreement.
Time to strap ourselves into the ejector seat Scotland. Brace, brace, brace…
So : I have had a wee a think about Treeza’s chequers plan.
It seems probable to me UK is being primed for a second referendum on Freedom of Movement ?
It is very clear the EU wont accept proposal put forward.
Cynics might even suggest the proposal was designed to fail at first hurdle.
FoM has always remained the sticking point for the kind of trade access UK expects.
Once we get to this point then May simply calls a second referendum on FoM vs. Single market.
This could give UK an EEA deal (i.e soft brexit).
The like of Boris / Gove and Ress-Mogg will need to suck it up : alternative is general election and Corbyn.
No wonder they have all gone very quiet – such referendum would be admission their Brexit vision was sold on premise of a lie / fantasy.
Scottish Tories as a block are now claiming Scotland is a country in name only and that Scotland is in fact no more or less important than a city in England
Scotland is approximately 32.000 square miles, which of these English cities is even close to that physical size and even if they were the claim they make is confirmation that they do NOT believe in a Union of peoples they believe in the ownership of peoples by England
The Scottish Tories also claim they are doing the wishes of their constituents when they’re clearly NOT by ignoring their wishes to remain in the EU and by using a previous referendum vote to apply sleight of hand reasoning to the current EU vote
When asked in the EU withdrawal debate Scottish Tories admit they support fracking in Scotland and that’s why the UK Guv are witholding powers to Scotland in order to make it so
One final piece of hilarity, the DUP are now claiming the Orange Lodge is not a sectarian organisation
My, my, the English Tories now have a cunning plan to present to the EU, and they think they can argue about what London wants. Their arrogance is breathtaking, it truly is.
Their so-called plan, needs approval by all EU member states, any single one can veto it.
In short the EU will tell them to get tae f***.
London and England still think they rule the world, that they and their colonies dictate terms of trade around the world. It is truly astonishing, watching this unfold. Meanwhile within the EU, they look on, aware of the hubris in the UK media and the support provided by the Tory run propagandist BBC. They all read and understand English, they see what is being said and the utter nonsense that is being spouted with each passing day. They see the hateful xenophobic comments from members of the Tory English Government.
The EU does not need to compromise on anything. London wanted to leave. You do not leave a club, whilst telling those who run it that the club is sh*te, then turn around and suggest you want to change their rules. It is delusional. You left the club, bye, bye.
In many ways, the harsh reality check which London is about to get from Europe, is something they have needed for many centuries. Deluded by nostalgia of empire and a glorious past (which was mainly myth), they really do think that other countries will bend the knee to their whims. England is right, they tell themselves.
Their is a lot of ill will towards the UK and the English Government right now. Europe is in no mood to accept any demands. London just doesn’t get it. They really have not grasped what leaving the EU means. They are deluded, and have been from day 1.
Scotland cannot get free from this dictatorial and abusive English Government soon enough. Get it done Nicola.
Breeks @ 6.58 am and folks,I think you are right that obviously the EU has to say no, again.
And that is what was intended all along (unless TM and pals are extraordinarily thick, which is another possibility of course)
I did wonder when she appeared in her fetching purple jaiket, looking awfully pleased with herself, and then came out with that sour note which just clanged.
How many UKers know and understand how the EU works and that the media will be spinning this frantically into another EU bad story.
Someone said (cannot mind who) that the wannabe rebels didn’t dare walk out because of the timing of the football stealing their thunder 🙂 but to watch, that by Monday that could all change!
If it wasn’t so serious it would be quite funny.
RE: BREXIT, it’s all coming to a head. WM, regarding the EU (and Scottsh sovereignty for that matter) has always operated on bluff. For centuries they got away with it. But no longer. The EU is about to call their bluff, which will lead to an imminent hard BREXIT, with WM waking up at the last minute and pathetically pleading to the EU to give them a deal. With no friends left in the world (Trump certainly will do them no favours), international humiliation beckons. Perhaps this is what the British Nationalists need to help them deal with their imperial instincts once and for all – a good kick up the backsides.
I wonder if this ultimately leads to the UK losing its permanent place on the UN security council. Even purchasing Trident 2 at great cost may not prevent this in the long term.
Robert Louis , Nicola cannot ‘ get it done’ WE have to get it done. We have to persuade the undecideds , the unthinking and the scared.
Scottish Tory Party should be informed that we are a country in our own right – if they don’t acknowledge that then perhaps their seats should be rendered firewood.
Don’t know why any bother to give Ms Rowling the time of day .She has one vote and one vote only ,just like everyone else.Perhaps NOT responding to her daft output would be best practice.
Good morning Smallaxe and yet another beautiful morning in bonny Scotland – I have lost track of the number of beautiful days now! Was a tad concerned not to see your name recently – glad you are posting! And that wee girl has great command of language !
The Tories do not have a clue what they are doing and neither does anyone else. Apart from lining their pockets with public money trying to ruin the economy. The UK can’t afford Brexit. It is just ridiculous.
Foster et al are criminals who has not obeyed UK Law for years and got away with it for unionists votes at Westminster. Pocketing £Billions. £Billions have been spent on the ‘Troubles’ cause by unionists refusal to obey UK/International,Law. The DUP and Orange Lodge are a discriminatary, unequal, bigoted, racist, misogynistic associations. Preach hate speech. Not equal, in any way. Unfair. Black ball. Yet it is receiving £Billions of public money in subsidy, Totally against the Law. The trouble has continued since Ireland was illegally Partition in 1923 by Lloyd George. The Irish wanted Home Rule/Independence. Instead they got illegal Partition. Against International Law. Once again Westminster unionists acting illegally.
The Orange Lodge are marching the streets. Destroying the economy. A private secret society illegally being supported by public money and policing. The Marches should be banned from the public highway because of terms of public order, If they want to March they should do it on private land at their own expense. A secret misogynistic, unfair, unequal society should not be supported with public money. It is illegal under the Law. Gradually losing members and support. An act of provocation. People are sick of it.
Westminster unionists are breaking the Law. Buying votes with public money. Gerrymandering and breaking electoral Law. Criminal behaviour punishable with prison. The Tories want to keep the farce going on so they can line their pockets with public money. Hinkley Point and HS2. The Tory slush fund. A total waste of public money. People are dying because of it.
The Tory unionists are just despicable. Labour are useless. They could have voted the Tories out but have colluded with them at every turn. They are as bad. They do not want the poison chalice. So let the farce continue. Absolutely criminal.
Illegal wars, financial fraud and taxe evadion. The unionists bloody game. Getting way with criminal behaviour. People are dying because of it.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.
Breeks @ 6:58am.
Nail on the head right there sir. May’s taking a position that is bound to be knocked back in order to blame the EU for the inevitable resultant hard brexit that she herself does not want to take responsibility for, but the hardline brexiteers are demanding.
O/T Thinking back to the 1705 Alien Act and the threats made by England towards Scotland, prior to the Union.
It’s kind of ironic that when Scotland dissolves the union it will be England out with the begging bowl looking for trade deals across the world.
Unchain the Unicorn and give the British Establishment the good hiding it so rightly deserves.
Yup, all set up for the Tory Flounce Out and Blame strategy: bloody foreigners, eh? And those bloody Jocks haven’t helped with their stunts ‘n’ sovereignty shtick.
Moggy not a happy boy on Pravdasound4 this morning. Probs can’t wait to get back to his estates to thrash a few peasants.
Is Mr Cairns off on holiday again?
Dorothy Devine says “Scottish Tory Party should be informed that we are a country in our own right – if they don’t acknowledge that then perhaps their seats should be rendered firewood”
There is a long list of MSP’s to start with. Annie Wells would be first on my list after her derogatory comments on the Scottish Parliament/Government. As for the MP’s – all thirteen equally. Not one of them have shown any respect to their constituents or the people of Scotland.
Two years on and we are no better than where we were but have lost a number of industries and service providers and screwed all sense of competence. Please,please Scotland get out of this shambles and join the rest of the NORMAL independent countries.
BTW amused by song ‘Coming Home’ and its associated ‘Sweet Chariot’ having watched the hand signs for the latter at,if my memory serves.Bath Rugby Union Club.Master Bates And Master Rees-Mogg were highly amused.
What is remarkable about the history of the development of the scoto-english union is that neither party trusted the other. There was little mutual love or admiration, the thing almost falling apart a few years down the line. It took military occupation to secure much of the country. Times have not changed much in three centuries. What keeps the thing alive?
Inertia? Fear? Ignorance? Laziness?
Independence will unleash the pent up, chained up, inner Scottish intelligence to serve the interests of its own nation and people. It is a no brainer, a straight logical and rational choice. The stasis of the subordinate status quo is not an acceptible option. Let reason prevail.
Oh, good luck England against your Swedish alter ego…Harry Potter is behind you…expeliarmus! Imperio! Etc….
Tinto Chiel says:
It all keeps coming back to that.
TMay producing yet another unacceptable cherry picking plan at this stage makes little sense.
The EU have even offered an olive branch – drop your red lines and we can talk seriously. But by maintaining those red lines any future trade deal must be limited (a la Canada).
Also, this should all be about the Divorce Treaty of which Ireland is the big issue, not future trade. Of course the Tories want to force a UK wide arrangement to resolve the Irish issue. So they blurring Divorce and Future Trade deals.
It is possible the Tories actually believe the EU will fold and let cherry picking occur. It’s hard to think like a Tory!
However, it just keeps coming back to the obvious conclusion – they just want to crash out and blame others.
Nicola needs to blow the whistle sometime very soon!
Now that the Claim of Right has been reinforced by all parties at Westminster, should the oath taken by MSP’s now be to the sovereign people of Scotland and the will of the Scottish Parliament. It should stop those who take the current oath but then claim to not respect the Parliament.
Abulhaq says:
And a pretty shit three centuries it’s been! Imperial conquest and wars. Abuse and ravaging of half the planet. At home, clearances and the worst urban accommodations in the world.
I happen to believe the high point of their Union was the post WWII, which for many are still within living memory. Suppose I did well from it – totally free University education including a living grant.
Over half of Scots lived in council house. Industries and jobs provided by the state via nationalisation, subsidies, or investment grants (Linwood, Bathgate etc). NHS, free education.
A consensual among all political parties that this system should continue.
Many ordinary people never had it so good (quoting MacMillan). Sad thing is, many would have it so good again – enter MThatcher.
Those who hang on to their Union fall broadly into two camps – 1) those who look back with nostalgia, believing the of today is, or can be again, the state of their youth, and 2) the smallish minority who believe the ‘new UKOK’ still benefits them.
So Ignorance, Inertia, Nostagia, and Greed … I would say.
Whom the God wish to destroy, they make mad first.
Teresa and the Cabinet. They have come to an agreement a deal that they can at last as a united front present to the EU.
The problems with this are legion.
1. It has taken two years! (The simplest negotiation in history)
2. It cherry picks (and they have been warned repeatedly)
3. It is arrogant in it’s assumptions of EU acceptance.
4. It contravenes the Four principles.
5. It does not sort the Irish Border.
6. It reeks of British Excepionalism and God given rights (good if you have a gunboat)
7. It is three pages long, hard to produce so much offence and ignorance in such a truncated form.
I think this is a document with one aim. It is cynically presenting itself as Britain acceding to the EU’s demands (remember there has been no negotiation) and have the EU reject the plucky Brits.
2 years and a twelve hour meeting to arrive at a three page incomprehensible “o” level answer is not believable. They must know it will be rejected out of hand, they cannot be that stupid as to assume that they have worn down EU principles by being obdurate.
So if all the above is true what are they aiming at?
Well if you do not negotiate in good faith and ignore the other sides red lines then you must expect the talks to fail. (Remember we are the party wanting concessions and access to the market)
So are they really aiming to fail? Well if they are not, then they are madmen bedazzled by their own idiocy.
I put it to you They are Tories! A statement of the obvious perhaps but do you believe that as they sat in chequers they did not discuss how this would effect their election chances? How they would sell it to their right wing and the media. Again I remind you they are Tories, whose interests will they look after in this monumental catastrofuck! It will be themselves first and party second if they coincide.
So how do they get out of this? Well there is a tried and tested scapegoat (not the Jews it ain’t the 30’s), it is the undemocratic German ruled superstate the EU. They will be presented as trying to crush “plucky” England once more and just like in 39 we will stand alone and give a German dominated Europe a bloody nose!
It will be rejected as it is intended to be, then the Tories can have their Hard Brexit free from blame as it was those nasty Frogs and Krauts what did it!
A cynical view I admit but is there any other explanation for their behaviour. If your main aim is to hold onto power (DUP) at any cost these are the actions you would take!
Credit where credit’s due. I reckon May played a blinder telling them that if they resigned they’d have to phone for a taxi and walk a mile down the drive to get it (and maybe miss the football?).
Well done whoever suggested it.
So now they have all ‘agreed’ on the same impossible thing. Phew, the relief after months of arguing which impossible thing to go for.
All public officials, politicians, civil servants in the UK. Take a secrecy oath. A declaration under the Official Secrets Act of non disclosure. Civil servants, police etc. That is how Westminster keep their illegal activities secret. Destroy democracy. People who do not obey can be put in jail. Public officials can break the Law with impunity. It conglicts with the representation of the people’s Act. When Westminster unionists politicians want to act illegally they use the Official Secrets Act and ‘D’ notices.
Interesting, just saw an ad on New European from Scottish Government branded OneScotland.org.
I normally ignore ads, but that that certainly caught my attention.
Theme ” Scotland believes in equality for all. No one should be denied opportunities because of age, disability, gender, gender identity, race, religion or belief, or sexual orientation. “ So about equality.
HOWEVER, it certainly painted a very positive image and therefore a strong subliminal message 🙂
I see the Hootsmon front page is for Trump to snub Nicola.
I am pretty sure Nicola punched the air and yelled “Ya Dancer” at that news 🙂
Let his visit be to his business concerns and leave it at that. I wouldn’t even be interested in protesting as it lends too much legitimacy to his visit.
Of course the real issue here is keeping the value and benefactors of offshore trusts secret.
They managed (by threat of veto) to limit disclosure only to companies and individuals in the last round of EU anti-tax avoidance/money laundering legislation.
How many people in that room would prioritise their countries entire economy over that? So they eventually agreed to an impossible solution.Really it is of no importance which impossible solution because it is impossible.
treeza does know the eu will reject this deal, davis was very quick to point this out already.
so she must be planning for this. indeed, because this really is the last chance saloon and if her last gambit is nothing more than a fudge the eu wont swallow then she must be planning for no deal.
I think TMay got backing from her whole cabinet easily and promptly because they all know the proposal will be rejected by the EU! They will be courteous and claim to be considering it in detail, but we will hear rejection noises before the weekend is over!
It’s all a charade and their compliant media is playing along with the circus.
@ cat
Just what I was going to post. Watched it all n Twitter last night.
Stage managed charade complete with pics of them all stood around in groups, like the stage set of a cocktail party at Downtown Abbey. Bojo had his tie off, and sleeves rolled up to signify the gravity of his pish talk.
Talked on the end of the summary was a statement about preparations, and the need to be ready for everything, and speeding up prep for No Deal.
Criminal negligence, but hey, suits our purpose, and we didn’t vote for this crud.
@galamcennalath 11:25pm
I agree. And it will give the British nationalists an ideal[ized] opportunity to blame the nasty foreigners – again.
A No Deal beckons, IMHO
Now is not the time: Until we have the time to make you not exist:
This constant pushing by Scottish Tories and some in Labour as well that Scotland isn’t a country but a part of a country that is the UK is becoming stronger and it leads me to think that in the upcoming court case this is the line they’re going to try in order to get to a (Spain Catalonia) outcome
Time and time again we’ve heard Tory MPs go on about Scotland being no more important than Manchester or Lincolnshire or Leeds, oh and Yorkshire, they like to use that one quite often, and it makes me wonder who are they trying to convince with this stuff, it can only be part of their new *better together* campaign but also do they know what the courts are going to say before it even gets there
What if the courts find Scotland is not a country but only a constituent part of greater England now known as the UK does that mean what I think it do that Tory world dissolves even our name, and if they try it will the Labour party the Libdems and the Greens fold under Tory pressure that any referendums in Scotland will be illegal and all the ramifications that flow from such a decision will follow
I believe the Tories are terrified of another referendum in Scotland because they fear we’d win so they have to make Scotland legally not exist before that happens
Just like Spain and Catalonia not the same but the same if they can make it legal
@ Donnywho. 10.16
A good summary. If you saw the animated powerpoint that emerged after the meeting, you would even know that, that meant the whole thing was staged.
These Tories are simply running down the clock. NO gov’t with an ounce of commitment or responsibility, would take a summer recess, in these grave circs. Watch them all saunter off to spend our hard earned, while theirs sits in the hedge fund.
Remember also, No Deal has the added advantage of trying to cut off the jocks and their annoying nonsense.
Screams from yoons of
“We are out now, deal with it. We don’t give a shit about your thoughts on agri/fishing/fracking/trade. We are now dealing with the world and you are not going to stop us”
“Shut up about your Rights, who ya gonna run to now, the EU?”
Cearc @ 10.39 am
A very interesting point.
Because, am I right in thinking that in leaving out ‘services’ the Tories are sidestepping the issue of the EU’s planned legislation on dodgy money, off-shore funds, hedge funds, tax dodging in general, in short, the REAL bread and butter of the ruling elite.
Is THAT what Brexit is really about?!
(if I don’t post for a while will you please send out the search party? There are a few folk on here who know what I look like. And I won’t go quietly.)
@val
the much expected blood bath at checkers didnt happen, i think the brexiteers have only signed up to it her statement because they also know it wont pass muster with the EU.
farage is currently accusing the brexiteers of selling out but I think they realised that signing this statement is nothing more than politically expedient fudge, designed to show a united tory party to the public, and actually means that no deal is now the most likely option.
btw, there is no deal and other no deal senarios, one without a transition deal will mean airports and dover being blocked.
these options are now the only senarios available
Trump wants a bilateral UK trade deal ‘as soon as possible,’ US ambassador says;
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/us-ambassador-trump-wants-bilateral-uk-trade-deal-quickly.html
Meghan Markle’s father: Prince Harry told me to give Trump a chance;
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/392742-meghan-markles-father-prince-harry-told-me-to-give-trump-a-chance
The Brexit delusion over who calls the shots;
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-brexit-delusion-over-who-calls-shots.html
Today’s lead item in The Scotsman must be in line for an award for the Most Ludicrous bit of manufactured Fake News.
Dr Jim @ 11.47
The Supreme Court can do a lot of things Dr Jim….
But they can’t do that..
Westminster may like to give the impression that’s the state of play,,,but it is only an impression.?
Don’t forget the the 1707 Treaty is the Founding document of the UK Parliament,the UK Parliament who’s laws the Supreme Court adjudicate on.
Therefore the Supreme Court cannot act as though there’s no actual Treaty.
They may say what effect the Treaty has,but that’s only for as long as the Treaty exists.
What they cannot do is decide that the Treaty is in place till the end of time!
IMHO…. They will stay as far away from the Sovereignty/Treaty issues as they can and keep their Judgement as narrowly as possible on the Continuity Bill
Val was there really a PowerPoint presentation. OMG that should have been funnier than Wily Coyote explaining how he would catch RoadRunner
I switched to watching Ch4 news for a few weeks after I decided I could not sit through the SNP/Scottish gov bad mis-reporting Scotland anymore. It is no better than any of the other BritNat channels. It may seem that way at first…..but only because they very rarely mention Scotland at all! Besides the fact that they mostly ignore Scotlands existence their propaganda on Syria, Russia, Corbyn, in fact everything is Tory/England centric and presented in a smug and superior manner…..much like their BBC/ITV counterparts.
Tinto Chiel 6 July, 2018 at 10:47 pm
If you go into the Guardian and read for example their film reviews, if it has a social narrative similar to one they champion and/or stars the usual metropolitan Labour supporting luvvies, it gets unbelievable reviews. You go and watch those films and you wonder if it is the same film that they reviewed.
Same goes the TV on the Guardian, all they talk about is The Wire and Breaking bad. I could only watch a few episodes of the The Wire as it was so slow. There are far better shows like The Shield that explored similar themes. As to Breaking bad, it was so nihilistic and full of self-obsessed characters that I couldn’t get past the second series. I usually like series that are dark and bleak but there was nothing constructive about Breaking bad.
Of course this is a conspiracy theory that is exactly the same as the ones exposed by the wing nuts of the right but I wonder how successful the Harry Potter franchise would be if JK Rowling had openly admitted her admiration for Thatcher and the Tories?
Regardless anyway, as I had mentioned best to ignore JK Rowling as she is following a particular narrative with the indy debate that ultimately benefits her. Why help her make more money for herself?
Cearc @ 10.39 & Ghillie @ 11.56
It is looking,more and more like Westminster just want financial services out from under EU oversight.
Everything else is just Theatre!
Breeks @6.30 ish am
I totally agree – T may is playing with everyone, EU, UK.
We were told she was thrashing out a Brexit position but she could have been discussing an upcoming General Election, a cliff-face Hard Brexit or any number of things.
This latest ‘solution’ is cherry picking and she knows it will be thrown out. Listen to Rees Mogg choose his words ever so carefully:
T may is an honourable woman, she is carrying out the Conservative manifesto; the will of the people etc..
I don’t think this is a serious proposal and will be amazed if the EU accepts it.
They have control of Stormont and Wales , only Holyrood a problem but they think they nearly have that sorted.
Worrying also the timing of Trump’s visit!
Will be telling if the cabinet all toddle off on holiday till September if a deal is supposed to be agreed by October. Hmmm!
I think they’re up to something and it’s not the Brexit deal they were supposed to have thrashed out on Friday.
Freedom of movement is key and if they are intending to make every currently resident EU citizen fork out £65 to stay here they are not intending to allow freedom of movement.
The meeting at Chequers has focussed on the 2 vital priorities – maintaining the pretence of Tory Party unity, and keeping Theresa May in office for another 2 weeks.
This allows the “lunatic fringe” to wait for someone else to plunge the knife into Mrs May. The key conspiators – Rees-Mogg, Boris, and Gove’s wife – know that their ambitions will come to naught if they do it themselves. Better to wait, hope the EU rejects the “deal”, pose as great “patriots”, and persuade some no-hoper to do the business at a later date, with hard Brexit secured.
What could go wrong?
Well, to pursue an idle thought like Rev Stu – what happens if a deal IS secured more or less on the proposal’s lines, a tweek or two here and there?
Then, if Scotland votes “yes” to independence, and agrees to essentially stay in the EU single market – then there can be no hard border or refusal to trade across the England-Scotland line in goods.
The law of unintended consequences strikes again. The Brexiteers have already destroyed the 2014 case for Scotland being out of the EU on a “yes” vote, and now destroy their infantile revenge argument for Scotland being boycotted on cross-border trade on independence.
Why do these clowns have any credibility? Quite simply, they own the press, and control the TV stations news output.
Serious investigative journalism would expose them, their veniality, their overseas bank accounts, their selfish asset-stripping, corruption, and even criminality.
And what of Labour? Given a map, both hands and a mirror they still couldn’t wipe their own backsides.
Guy Verhofstadt
?
Verified account
@guyverhofstadt
1h1 hour ago
I read the #Chequers statement with great interest. But the devil is in the detail. The @Europarl_EN’s Brexit Steering Group awaits the White Paper which it will examine very carefully at its meeting on 12/7 and then give its considered initial response.
————–
Translated……. enjoy yer football, see ya next week
CONSTRUCTIVE, MEANINGFUL, ENCOURAGING, POSITIVE
Let’s play BREXIT Bingo. The media hacks are spinning so fast they are getting dizzy.
They only agreed because they did not want the long walk home. Or the humiliation. Today they will be back to civil war, bickering, fighting and lying. As per usual. Brexit is unaffordable and they know it. Trying to get out of the hole they have dug themselves. With damage limitation. Getting in deeper and deeper. Trying to bury bad news. How low can they go. That is their conundrum. Until they all face the long walk home in disgrace. Soon a two month recess. Even more mess.
The Skripal mystery. Why are there no suspects. There are CTV cameras all over the place. On motorways etc. Car movements are documented with speed cameras etc. Airports are monitored with passengers and flight movements. Computers and traffic monitored and recorded. So where are the suspects. Why were the Skripals secreted away. Are they the suspects? A cover up. A double agent who wrote the Russian dirty dossier on Trump. To try and influence the US pres election.
Ï
M15/CIA were illegally and secretly bugging and recording the Trump campaign. Illegitimate prejudiced. Running a counter campaign. All very convenient for a CIA/M15 Westminster cover up. For acting illegally. Where are any suspects? With the main witnesses secreted away. A ‘D’ notice put on the events. Very strange. A major political cover up. Damage limitation exercise.
@ Shrodinger cat – is that not the date of the Battle of the Boyne? Just before Bastille Day? It’s going to be a long hot summer.
@galamcennalath
Missed out the nostalgia, now with Brexit looming, on trend, so tune in for latest bowdlerised tranche of BritHist.
Greed? What the whole imperialist project was about but the Empire was ‘essentially ‘a good thing’.
It made London what it is today. Ouch!
Moronic OO parades today, Glasgow!
http://www.bandparades.co.uk/event/county-grand-orange-lodge-of-glasgow-14
@Capella
scotland is an ancient country, full of traditions and days to celebrate and remember.
however, that doesnt preclude us from making new history, new days to celebrate.
hisstory was made in the past but we also reserve the right to make it in the future.
the 12th and the 14th are other peoples days to remember and mean little to me
(although i did march down the champs elysees on the 200th anniversary of the Prise de la Bastille)
I intend to create a new day, independence day, ASAP
The crafty b’stards are up to something.
No mobile phones,
All the pish about a taxi home if they resign and don’t lick erse,
Trump on the way.
Selling us down the river they are.
@Liz 12.28
Scotlands claim of right is as it is (Salvo jure cujuslibet)
(Let whosoever sue the crown) and Scotland has the power in Scots law under the court of session (in desuetude)(obsolete)
my only concern is that the English Supreme court refuses to acknowledge the Scottish court of session has or had jurisdiction as it gave up that right to the English courts in constitutional matters otherwise why are the Tories not more ruffled about court proceedings
Now I agree with every word you say, as do we all but that’s not what I think the UK is saying and I firmly believe their judges are their judges just like their media is their media and to quote Star Wars I’ve got a bad feeling about this
Every country in the world including the EU right now know when it comes to the UK keeping their word or making good their promises the UK cannot ever be trusted ever
@ Smallaxe – oh dear, I see the tailend of the Boyne Demonstration coincides with the England football match. What a dilemma.
However, not sure if this is watchable today, a rather patronising review of the winner of the Michael Powell Award at the Edinburgh Film Festival is a Scottish Highlands thriller “Calibre”.
Might be more fun than the football! Not archiving as there are clips:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/29/calibre-review-highlands-horror-story-overcomes-cliche-to-bag-a-netflix-release
Dave Robb @ 12:54,
It’s an interesting point that, Dave, but it doesn’t actually depend on any agreement between (r)UK and the EU.
Come the next indyref, the Tory insistence that “there will be no hard border” will be flung right back at the BritNats. With feeling. What’s good enough for NI is good enough for us too.
Myth punctured, just like all the rest.
Euronews reporting on the demonstrations likely to upset the Trump visit. Apparently, he is being wined and dined by the sycophant May at Blenheim Palace, Winston Churchill’s old pied a terre. Labour has written a stiff letter of complaint:
Good for them. At least some Labourites have a backbone.
http://www.euronews.com/2018/07/07/trump-to-meet-queen-and-uk-pm-outside-london-to-avoid-protest
@Dr Jim says: 7 July, 2018 at 7:14 am:
“Scottish Tories as a block are now claiming Scotland is a country in name only and that Scotland is in fact no more or less important than a city in England.”
Ach! Dr Jim, the Scottish Tories are what my Auld Granny would have described as, “raither batchy”, or even, “Weel aff thir heids”.
What’s more the wise old lady knew her Scottish History and, having died many years ago, at just days before her 100th birthday, she obviously had lived through a fair bit of that history.
What follows here is a very long, and correct version, of the political part of British History that encompasses the lifespan to date of the United Kingdom. Scroll on by anyone uninterested in the truth:-
When the Scottish parliament was only, “prorogued”, instead of being put in permanent recession, unlike its counterpart at Westminster, in 1707 and the Scottish parliament sent some of its representatives to the Westminster Parliament that the speaker of the Kingdom of England’s House of Commons exultantly commented, “We have catch’d Scotland and will bind her fast.” That arrogant Britnat boast has held true for 311 years but it wasn’t exactly what those, “Paircel o rogues in ae nation”, in the Scottish Parliament had intended it to be.
Moreover, as usual, the Westminster Establishment simply did what it always does and re-wrote the history to suit the Westminster Establishment’s narrative.
However, there have always been some Scots who have never forgotten their kingdom was coerced into union with England and, under the independent laws of Scotland coercion is a criminal offence. So let us consider some of the true legal history the Westminster Establishment wants all Scotland to never get to know.
From 1603 until today, (that is from when King James VI of Scotland also became King James I of England by inheriting the Crowns of the three country Kingdom of England), the kingdoms of Scotland and England have shared the same monarch. However, Scotland retained its own parliament, (much to the irritation of the English), and by the beginning of the 18th Century, the English decided that a personal, “Union of The Crowns”, was not good enough and Westminster decided there would also be a formal union of the parliaments.
The whole issue had become, for the English, very urgent because James VI&I was Protestant as was his great-granddaughter, Queen Anne, who succeeded to the joint thrones in 1702, and the Union of The Crowns was only a personal union for the wearer of two independent kingdom’s crowns.
Queen Anne had no surviving children so when she died, the crown would revert to the Catholic branch of the House of Stuart who were then living in exile in France and the English Protestants were not about to allow that to happen and, in 1701, they passed, “The Act of Settlement”, and thus they passed over more than fifty actual better royal claimants in-line to the thrones in favour of the Protestant, George of Hanover, a very minor German prince. So the true cause of, “The Union”, was nothing short of the Christian Sectarianism that is demonstrated regularly by Protestant millenarianism on the streets of Scottish towns and cities. BTW: Just for the record, I have no religious leanings whatsoever.
This really got right up the Scottish parliament’s collective noses because they were not even consulted on the matter. Almost all of Scotland were extremely disdainful of, “The wee bit German lairdie”, that the Britnats were forcing upon them. The Scottish Parliament then replied by passing, “The Act of Security”, thus reversing the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s right to choose its own monarchy as enshrined in the independent Scots Law by Article of Union No. 19 of the Treaty of Union, 1706/7.
At this the daggers were immediately drawn – for the Britnats, (including the proud Scots buts), feared that if the Scots were ever to resume their ancient legal independence, they would also resume their ancient alliance with England’s long-standing enemy – a.k.a. Johnny Foreigner France.
So the Britnats couldn’t get on with building their, “British Empire”, while looking over their collective shoulders while also securing their northern land border with Scotland. So the Westminster Establishment instigated something called, “The Alien Act of 1705”. This Britnat act provided that unless prompt effort was made to unite the parliaments of the two countries, then all Scots nationals living in England would be regarded as aliens, and a trade embargo would be placed on the sale of Scottish goods to England. (I knew I’d heard of that kind of thing somewhere more recently).
If that threatened trading embargo had actually taken effect, it would have been a knockout blow to a Scottish economy that was already staggering due to several years of drought and bad harvests. In point of fact, under, “The Union of the Crowns”, Scotland had not been free to trade with France, nor with the Britnat colonies because Westminster had applied the same, “English Navigation Acts”, to Scotland as it had to everyone else.
The English Mercantile Marine, (Britannia Ruled the waves), thus also shut the Scots out of the lucrative trade with England’s colonies. This, though, also had a down side for the Britnats as it caused wars with the European countries and had a big hand in instigating the American War of Independence that, BTW: the Britnats lost.
This is what led to London Scot, William Paterson, (actually employed as an undercover agent, along with the English author, Daniel Defoe, by Sir Robert Harley, the English Spymaster), to instigate the subscription scheme funded by those same English Mercantile Marine owners, to bail out the impoverished English Parliament and that led to the formation of the private company, “The Bank of England”.
It was also the same William Paterson who conned the Scots wealthy parliamentarians, who were also the Scottish Merchants and Landowners, to adopt as a solution to the Scottish dilemma, the attempt to found a colony of their own in Panama, (The so-called “Darien Disaster).
The Scots merchants/parliamentarian/landowners were conned into sinking a quarter of their nation’s capital into this abortive colonial venture, and lost every penny when it failed – and it was designed to fail by the Westminster Britnats as the Parliament/monarchy had initially conspired with the Dutch to 50% fund the expedition but then pulled out leaving it underfunded. They then ordered the Royal Troops already at Darien not to assist the expeditioners and The Royal Navy to not assist the expedition.
The Britnats saw their chance and so, by design, the biggest losers in the Darien Disaster were Scotland’s richest and most prominent men — the very same men who where to negotiate the terms of Scotland’s union with England.
Then the Britnats offered to assume the debts of the Darien company, and that meant Scotland’s, (Cough!), unlucky investors would get their money back. Pure and simple this was bribery, corruption and coercion on an international scale. (and coercion is a criminal offence under Scots Law).
So was it any surprise that Scotland’s commissioners quickly approved England’s plans for the union? The Scottish parliament (also bribed the same way), followed the Commissioners lead.
Riots broke out in Edinburgh, Glasgow and other Scottish cities when the terms were made public, but the riots were far too late and the Scottish Britnats were “Bought and sold for English gold,” as our national bard later bitterly wrote, “Siccna paircel o rogues in ae nation”, (Such a parcel of rogues in one nation).
The union brought unprecedented prosperity to Scotland as it allowing the Scots access to England’s still burgeoning colonial empire and many Scots suddenly had unlimited opportunities to succeed abroad as merchants, explorers, doctors, engineers, soldiers and administrators. Believe it or not, at the height of the British Empire, (between 1885 and 1939), one-third of Britain’s colonial governors-general were Scots.
Then, as The British Empire dwindled, the Scots began once again to question the union with England. Scotland’s political traditions have always been much more democratic than those of the Westminster Establishment and in the 20th century, Scottish politics tilted decidedly far more left wing and thus what was to become The Britnat Labour Party was founded by the Scot Kier Hardie. and the Labour Party became the majority party in Scotland ever since the 1920s.
Yet today out of the 59 Scottish seats in the House of Commons the SNP holds 35; the Britnat Conservatives hold 13;The Britnat Labour hold 8 and the Britnat LibDems 4 and the Britnat Parties act in unison as befits unionist parties.
The economic and social policies pursued by the Conservatives in the 1980s under Margaret Thatcher were deeply resented in Scotland, in particular because they meant cuts in public expenditures and an end to the government propping up money-losing industries. Scottish unemployment soared, and so did nationalist feeling. In the late 1990s, Labour prime minister Tony Blair tried to placate the Scots by giving Scotland its own parliament with limited control over Scottish affairs.
The Scots soon wanted more and the likelihood of Scottish Independence seems very more likely to be inevitable and that prospect has driven the Westminster Establishment into ever more ludicrous isolationist polices that seem ever more likely to end badly for the Britnats and to the benefit of Scotland to become, like every other free country in the World that has the confidence to not rely upon it’s next door neighbours to run their country for them, – for these true historic fact show beyond doubt what Westminster does is always to benefit the Westminster English Britnats before anyone and everyone else in the ridiculously titled United Kingdom have lost all sense of reality and the EU has maintained the same line throughout the whole comedic affair – There will be no Cherry Picking of the four freedoms by the Westminster Britnats.
For donnywho and others. I like Faisal and his reporting.
This highly animated presentation had obviously been prepared well before the meeting.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1015338621199683585?s=19
BBC “Theresa May is seeking Conservative MPs’ backing for the cabinet’s proposal for UK-EU relations after Brexit.”
… a bit premature, before she gets too enthusiastic she should perhaps wait for some official EU feedback.
Mind you, it would par for the course if the EU said ‘nae chance’ then she spent a month selling a rejected plan to MPs.
I think this is quite a good piece by Kirsty Hughes, Scottish Centre for European Relations.
https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-7630
cearc @ 10:39,
Ghillie @ 11:56,
Yes, of course! Glad that someone has finally spotted one of the real fundamentals of the Tory plan.
The radical left have been so up themselves over the so-called “corporate superstate” that they have entirely missed the fact that the EU was about to put serious clampers on the shady money traders of London. Which just won’t do, of course. The UK isn’t a nation of hairdressers, it’s a nation of money launderers.
So the basics are to protect the moneybags, keep trade with the EU open on manufactured goods to keep the carmakers and Airbus wingmakers happy (oh, and by the way, hopefully ease those tricksy problems with the NI border), and get May’s personal bugaboo, the ECJ, out of her hair.
Will it wash with the EU27? I’m not so sure it will crash-and-burn, as many of you seem to assume. A few carefully pre-engineered concessions will be granted and the deal will be larded with absolute mountains of fudge – promises from perfidious Albion to adhere to all the EU rules for an indefinitely-specified period, and it will be left to future UK governments to break whichever one or more of them if they dare. Or not.
The Rees-Moggites are right about one thing. The UK will be passive rule-takers for years to come. But they know fine that it’s all for the sake of protecting the shady money dealers who were the real power behind Leave all along.
Capella,
“oh dear, I see the tailend of the Boyne Demonstration coincides with the England football match. What a dilemma.”
🙂
Have a happy and peaceful day, my friend.
This Is What The EU Really Thinks About Theresa May’s New Brexit Plan;
https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/this-is-what-the-eu-really-thinks-about-theresa-mays-new?utm_term=.uqD5w7qQV#.iqAZjPMKB
I see from Stu’s twitter that he has been out stocking up for the match this afternoon. Sweeties – cherry phosphate flavour.
Well I suppose I will have to go and do some hoovering and dusting, perhaps a spot of weeding, to get through this fraught aftenoon of glorious glory.
I’ve been splashing around in the Sargasso sea that is Yoon Twitterdom most of the morning and it’s a ghastly experience I have to tell you
I had no idea for example at the amount of hospitals and A&E departments all over Scotland the SNP are sneakily closing and the figures they’re massaging to make themselves look good, doctors and nurses are flooding out of the country by the minute because they can no longer cope under the dictatorial government that is the vile SNP, the pressure they’re putting on the Scottish media to silence the truth is astonishing
Thank God the Conservative and Unionist MSP Miles Briggs is teh guy on the case spreading the most vile and billious lies to anone who’ll listen about all of this complete and utter made up garbage and quite frankly if there isn’t some kind of a law to arrest this guy then there should be because there are thick human beings out there falling for this stuff (they’re mostly in Perth so you can understand it a bit) but nonetheless Miles Briggs has got to be brought up on charges for this behaviour, none of what the guy says is even remotely close to anybodies truth
Problem with all this is the thickos are retweeting this crap as if it’s facts and all the wee daft Yoonies are lapping it up
The media has an agenda which is ideological and not supportive of the Scottish identity. Consuming that media shapes the individual’s perception of the world and will undermine their sense of self and their powers of self-motivation, if Scottish. Behavior is shaped by mood.
Secular humanism: A radical reading of “culture industry” productions
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15295038409360011
On the dialogic aspects of mass communication
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15295038409360012
The media reality: Epistemological functions of media in cultural systems
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15295038409360024
@Robert J. Sutherland
I’m also in agreement with you and the others that Brexit has been all about escaping EU regulation of Financial Services and very little to do with Free movement of people.
No one can be certain that the EU will not accept something similar to soon to be issued white paper. It will all depend on them giving up their red lines that the four freedoms are indivisible which would be a hard one to swallow for all remaining EU27 countries.
Guess we’ll have to wait and see but all this prevaricating until the last minute has been Westminster’s plan all along.
If the deal does float then like you I also agree with Dave Robbs point @12:54 that an Independent Scotland would benefit from an open border with the rUK for goods even if we are full members of the EU.
Do we still have a “material change in circumstances”? Of course we do, it’s the power grab. Lot’s of moves to be made on the board yet that will keep everyone guessing until the end.
Dr Jim @ 2.29pm
Murdo has been all over F.B accusing the Scottish Government of planning to shut down the A&E department at P.R.I in Perth
@jfngw says: 7 July, 2018 at 10:05 am:
” … should the oath taken by MSP’s now be to the sovereign people of Scotland and the will of the Scottish Parliament. It should stop those who take the current oath but then claim to not respect the Parliament.”
Scots MPs and MSPs already have the option of swearing the oath in the English or Scottish style. Also those MPs who are not Christians can, for example, also not swear on the Bible but for example on their own religions holy book. See here:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32812359
I posted a link a few days ago of Alex Salmond making the point while being, “sworn in”, that as a Scot his first loyalty has to be to the legally sovereign people of Scotland.
Thanks Robert Peffers for your long and informative piece at 2:12pm.
“…….What follows here is a very long, and correct version, of the political part of British History that encompasses the lifespan to date of the United Kingdom……..”
A 5-10 minutes read and well worth the time. 🙂
Mind now, I’m a partisan vile sep. 😉
Meaning, Self and Motivation in Organizations
Abstract
This paper claims that current work motivation theories are restricted in certain respects due to their overreliance on individualistic-hedonistic assumptions and their over-emphasis of cognitive-calculative processess. It is suggested that a self-concept based theory should be added to the existing core of theories in order to overcome their limitations. Certain assumptions about the relationships between the self-concept and behaviour are presented, followed by a series of theoretical propositions and some research suggestions. The implications of the theory for organizational commitment, collective work behaviour, transformational leadership and symbolic management are briefly discussed.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/017084069101200304
Promoting Motivation, Health, and Excellence: Ed Deci at TEDxFlourCity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGrcets0E6I
APPLYING SELF-DETERMINATION THEORY TO ORGANIZATIONAL
RESEARCH
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.721.2662&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Sweden 0 poms 1 bummer.
I honestly wish the team well but dread the cultural implications if they bring it home, mid-Brexit.
How is this for a headline on an article in today’s Torygraph?
‘England has indulged its’underdog complex’ for centuries. Now we must shake it off’.
This from a country that regards itself as some sort of master race.
One can only shake one’s head in disbelief.
Unfortunately the article is behind the fascist rag’s pay wall and there is no way I am going to give the loathesome Barclay brothers a single penny of my money.
@Liz g says: 7 July, 2018 at 12:47 pm@
” … It is looking,more and more like Westminster just want financial services out from under EU oversight.
Everything else is just Theatre!”
100% correct, Liz g.
But they are not in any way fooling the EU. Michel Barnier made a press relese even before the meeting of UK cabinet awayday. Here is the BBC report of what was said:-
Michel Barnier knew that the awayday cabinet were never going to be other than unrealistic in regard to the red-line EU Four Freedoms – he was, of course, correct in his assumptions that the UK were about to continue being unrealistic and anyone in the World looking on with amusement knew he was right to so assume.
gus1940 @4:04pm
Re: Englands underdog status
Must be talking about their football team.
Unlike CameronB Brodie I know how insufferable they will be if they win. So I want them to lose. I will not support them until they take their grubby mitts off Scotland.
Sweden 0 poms 2 past my bed time. C’mon Croatia or Russia.
Kangaroo
I might only have two caps for Scotland*, but I’m not a petty arsehole.
* under 16s.
England winning the WC would be one of the biggest boosts to Indy in history.
Next round of the World Cup of Mags now open.
Don’t forget to vote for iScot.
They won the first round with 55%
The second round with 93%!
https://worldcup.pocketmags.com/
England crush Sweden….Brexit dividend?
England v Russia? Care for a Novichoc? The soft centres are the nicest.
Well done England you made Sweden look pretty average.
Now just two more games before you win the World Cup which I earnestly hope you do.
Then the dream that never dies will come true for us baith.
Care for a Novichoc?
Is he their center forward?
Only saw last 10 mins but England did look good, and I have to admit from taking little interest apart from the fun of seeing ABE v Trollings & Co, and some real ass crawlers, I’m starting to get behind England. After all, 9% of the Scottish people are of English origin and there will be celebrations all ove Scotland tonight.
Voted for iScot
https://worldcup.pocketmags.com/
rp
Michel Barnier knew that the awayday cabinet were never going to be other than unrealistic in regard to the red-line EU Four Freedoms – he was, of course, correct in his assumptions that the UK were about to continue being unrealistic and anyone in the World looking on with amusement knew he was right to so assume.
—————–
so what happens when it is rejected?
Arise Sir Gareth Southgate…..
The stars are gettin in alignment 🙂
Invite from a couple of the hotel team in Dubrovnik to join them at their local bar to them being the undoing of the peskie ruskies 1st then turning over the Engerland 11. Fingers, toes and even eyes are crossed.
@Robert Peffer
The oath is:
“I (Member’s Name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, Her Heirs and Successors, according to Law. So help me God.”
The affirmation is also to the Monarch, no mention of the people in either. I suppose someone could claim ‘according to Law’ includes them, but that’s stretching it a bit in my opinion.
BREAKING from Pravda Quay
with Union Jackie Kim Ono
https://i.imgur.com/yVbBbC1.jpg
Sweden seem to only have one playing style, England negated it, Sweden didn’t have any players with the ability to break this up. In fact it looked like they were playing for penalties from the kick off, although I do compliment Sweden on their passing across their back four, very consistent.
Gave up at half time, it was quite a boring match if you were not an England supporter.
Not a huge football fan and so far I have watched only a handful of games, although I have been lucky with my picks so far. The play acting and well, lets face it, blatant cheating, puts me off a tad.
Not really getting how England winning will do much for Scottish independence but if it added just 2 or 3% to the Yes vote then they can get my cheers. Not sure there are any teams left that I really prefer anyway. Belgium looked superb in the first half last night but faded hugely in the last 30 minutes. I think Brazil should have won that game overall but putting the ball in the back of the net is what counts not the time wasted on amateur dramatics. However, with their exit my interest has waned.
The ethnicity of the English crowd in Samara didnt quite match that of the team.
Be that as it may, Sweden were geriatric. Ingerland deserved to win.
Could we have some of that stuff that motivates them?
I bought their furniture for God sake they could’ve at least….Aargh
My BritNat pub owner asked me coyly last night to ask my “Nationalist” leaders to saw off England before today because of ……the football?? He said he would vote for them if they did.
I somewhat flummoxed him by telling him that this was a game! I also said that I was half English and I wished them all the best.
I don’t understand how these Britnats can become rabid supporters of Scotland, but only when it’s football!
All the English folk in the pub secretly told me that they couldn’t watch the match at the pub because the folk were anti English.
So Britnats are only anti English when it comes to football? It’s crazy stuff!
This makes me more annoyed than England winning! Stupid is!
I was in Tesco`s and looking at the paper bins, the usual suspects had some front page coverage of the impending England v Sweden game but it was the Mirror that especially caught my attention. It appeared that it was the English edition that has been thrust upon Scottish
readers as the headline read “the whole nation is behind you“. What nation would that be exactly.
The next three pages were dedicated to the forthcoming game and skipping quickly through the rest of the paper there seemed to be no Scottish news.
This is really getting out of hand. In my country today there is only one newspaper that I can read, no domestic (UK) tv channels I can watch and from the islands to the highlands to the borders I sometimes feel like a foreigner.
Re. the reaction of many Scots to England’s win. Given the political power differential the Union maintains between the nations, it is only natural that those who feel oppressed have no love for their perceived oppressor.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1754073913484373
Researching Emotional Reflexivity
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1754073914544478
Rethinking Masculinity Studies: Feminism, Masculinity, and Poststructural Accounts of Agency and Emotional Reflexivity
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1060826518782980
England winning the world cup will not help Scotland to Independence.
Drooling and dribbling , billing and cooing, by the news reporters fawning all over their new bestest hero’s will push the poor demented Scots with nothing else to look forward to for the next fifty years but televised replays of this event into seeking a way out of this cursed union by voting to leave it.
@McDuff
Scotland is Ireland pre 1916. The frustration build up will ultimately lead to something. what that something will be is in the lap of the gods. Brexit has created a new febrile scenario. Things cannot go on as they are, that is certain. Like a chaffing saddle the Union must be kicked off our back.
Watching Russia v Croatia, not fitba but total war. Both peoples know their history. Not for the squeamish.
Report from Golwg Welsh magazine (in translation).
Nicola Sturgeon sees a single market opportunity in the Chequers scheme
7 July 2018 at 12:28
Nicola Sturgeon says that it is a challenge, but not impossible, for those campaigners who want to keep the United Kingdom within the Single Market and the customs union following Brexit.
The First Minister of Scotland says that the agreement made by Theresa May and her cabinet in Chequers yesterday (Friday 6 July) leaves the door open for Britain to be tied to Europe.
The scheme – which has yet to receive the approval of the other 27 European Union countries – recommends creating a ‘UK-EU’ area for free trade between the two area, and an area that would follow “the same common rules book”.
In the meantime, a “customs agreement” between the United Kingdom and the European Union would remove the need for checking and control – instead, the agreement would treat both areas as if they were “one territory from a customs perspective”.
“This agreement is more realistic than what we have ever seen by the British government,” said Nicola Sturgeon, in response to the result of the prolonged negotiations at Chequers. “However,” she said, “we do not know too much of them either.”
“What worries me is that the scheme seems to be that the British government are choosing the best parts, the things they like about Europe, and rejecting the rest … Things are more complicated than that, and the European Union will have a load of questions that this plan does not answer.
“But perhaps that is the point – if this is the UK starting off point in the discussions, it certainly offers real opportunities for those who wish to see a market-related outcome which maintains the single market and the customs union … ”
Translation WS and Google.
Link: https://golwg360.cymru/newyddion/prydain/523761-nicola-sturgeon-gweld-cyfle-marchnad-sengl
@Welsh Sion
Why is Sturgeon so bothered about the ‘UK’? She’s Scotland’s FM. Nationalists need to psychologically reorientate themselves. The UK is noxious, let it sink or swim with England.
Britain sic is not the centre of the universe. She is not ‘radical’ enough.
On the plus side re England win…just heard Ally McCoist say he was ‘delighted’ about it…..Arise Sir Ally McCoist …”One believes you are one of the People and a royalist to boot…King Billy I believe….my husband and I are delighted you have chosen England as your adopted country”
Meanwhile… in the country where he is now in self imposed exile his former countrymen declare …..”Whit the fcuk did that fanny McCoist just say”.
To be continued….he does have form you know….their his imperial masters .
albulhacker
Are you Tommy Sheridan? So many radical left wingers self destruct. They detest each other more than the tories.
As an example the Life of Brian shows how radical they can be bruvver. Let’s have a vote – well lets vote first on whether jeremy wears a cardigan lol. No vote needed UNITE has a million!
Robert Peffers
Could I submit a story of mine to you about the history of this “Disunited Kingdumb”? You will find a link to me via “Off topic” here or my profile via LinkedIN. Thanks in advance.
McDuff @ 6:45 pm
You wrote: “This is really getting out of hand. In my country today there is only one newspaper that I can read, no domestic (UK) tv channels I can watch and from the islands to the highlands to the borders I sometimes feel like a foreigner.”
I watched the England vs Sweden game today on BBC TV. (Congratulations England – they’ve had a lucky draw and today Sweden were very, very disappointing – but you can only beat the team facing you!) However, although watching this on a British (by implication UK-wide) Broadcasting Corporation TV service the tone and vocabulary throughout was consistent with a broadcast from an ‘English Broadcasting Corporation’.
Given that those of us in Scotland, Wales and NI also (still!) pay the licence fee – given that each of the four UK nations compete separately in international football – if there was any respect for three out of the four nations, the BBC should have offered (probably at little extra cost) an alternative broadcast of this game specifically for an non-England audience – there are good Scottish (perhaps Welsh and NI) football commentators who would surely have welcomed some work during this world cup.
McDuff you wrote specifically: “I sometimes feel like a foreigner.” I understand this but for me the bigger problem is the constant, explicit or implied, effort to airbrush out (a) my own distinctiveness as citizen of Scotland; and (b) Scotland’s distinctiveness as a kingdom/country/nation. I detest this Tory ‘one nation’ trope – its a ‘drip feed’ being used to deny Scotland’s distinct status and often by the same parts of ‘British’ society who will lazily, unthinkingly or very deliberately equate England with the UK/Britain.
The way I’ve looked at it over the years is that since our team hasn’t been it it, I can support whoever I like if I can be bothered. So if in the company of Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Slovakian, English, as happens when I’m around Scotland, I cheer their goals. Ireland of course with the English manager “Give it a lash Jack” Charlton when England really had a team, who can forget Bobby Charlton or Nobby Stiles? That’s about it, really. Still waiting for another Archie Gemmell, or Joe Jordan.
McDuff says:
7 July, 2018 at 6:45 pm
“I was in Tesco`s and looking at the paper bins, the usual suspects had some front page coverage of the impending England v Sweden game but it was the Mirror that especially caught my attention. It appeared that it was the English edition that has been thrust upon Scottish
readers as the headline read “the whole nation is behind you“. What nation would that be exactly.”
Nicola stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.
All independence supporting Scots should follow her fine example and stand “shoulder to shoulder” with the English football team at the World Cup in Russia.
Welsh Sion
post it here dai, you need no ones permission to post a comment other than than stus
Wouldn’t it be fine if WordPress had a user filter, whereby you could enter a text string and never have to see daily posts containing that text string ever again, an’ thah’ an’ a’, iye?
Mine would be “shoulder to shoulder”.
Jiss think o’ the dross that wouldn’t infect my screen…
Rock @ 20:57,
Thank you for your usual daily idiocy. You can crawl back again now under that stone you have named yourself after and return to your troubled dreams.
Schrodingers Cat @ 8:58 pm
Welsh Sion
post it here dai, you need no ones permission to post a comment other than than stus
______
I acknowledge your sentiments, Cat, but it is rather long, and I’d prefer not to disturb the flow of the thread (even if Admin agrees to it.)
I suggest that I can post it to any interested individual if they’d care to see it (some of you may already be familiar with my “parable style”) by contacting me off line (off topic details or via LinkedIn) – and then subsequently submitting it here for Stu’s perusal, if they think it merits a wider audience.
Russia to score another then win on penalties.
Typing about people from Wales whose name begins with S, ends with an N and contains two vowels between…
This lady has always brightened my TV screen…
http://www.lynneallbutt.co.uk/gardening-news-with-bbc-waless-sian-lloyd/
Ho hum.
Mibbe by presidential decree Messi & Iniesta will play in the final
Thepnr @ 15:03,
The EU won’t insist on its own red lines if the UK is prepared to take itself far enough “out”. Canada-style or whatever. So the question the UK will be asked is: “just how much integration and tariff-free trade do you want?”.
It looks to me (and Nicola too, it would seem) that May is trying to retain a fair amount of integration for some things at least, while – for political consumption by the Leaver base – pretending that it’s much further out. The EU might be willing to go along with that pretence, but not at the price of a fudge without end, a deal riddled with loopholes and sneaky getout clauses.
I can’t see the EU27 trusting perfidious Albion with a deal based on nothing but London promises to be good, something as wobbly as a jelly built on sand that will fall over in no time flat, even if it is after May’s short tenure of the poisoned chalice is over.
The red lines will definitely stay firmly in place for Northern Ireland. Possibly though May will be selling out the DUP but dressing it up somehow so they don’t notice, the poor fools. After all, when its interests are at stake, London doesn’t give a toss more for them than it does for the SNP.
So my thinking is that for what May wants, the EU will insist on something substantive, the UK will have to cave, but try to make it look like they’ll get more of what they want in the longer run, once people have stopped paying attention.
Depends on how much wishful thinking the UKGov is still indulging itself in, and how much crafty wangling it thinks it can get away with. Which doesn’t make for an easy call either way.
Subjected myself to the Croatia Russia match. Compared to the football last night this is a different order and not in a good way. I can’t see England losing to either of these teams.
Blimey! C’mon Croatia. My prayers are with you all the way.
@HandandShrimp
Will have to disagree with you there, I think Croatia are a very good team and are good enough to defeat England and possibly win the World Cup.
Whoever wins now will need a bit of luck too, not much separating all four semi-finalists now I think.
@Hamish100
Not about left, right or centre…
It’s about strategy, Sturgeon is too politically ‘orthodox’, she manages well but she is not an innovative strategist. After seeming to crush all before it, she has led the SNP up a blind alley. She needs either to consider her strategy, or her position and perhaps do a Salmond. She may well be ‘worn out’. The times demand a new style of leader and leadership, that or another more assertive nationalist party.
The unionists are doing all the running and it is not, given the current Brexit cockup, how it ought to be. The focus must be on achieving independence, everything else is secondary.
Love this poll for it’s unintended outcome.
The major domestic tv channel Yessers think most positively about re politics = BBC!
Within margin of error of no voters!
Hi Abulhaq.
I must admit you’re quite good with your strategy.
But you’re well sussed.
Croatia are a very good team and should have won comfortably. They dominated the match and poured an avalanche of balls into the Russian box. The Russian team had been set up for deep defence and they did it very well indeed (though Croatia had no luck with its final balls into the box).
Russia’s tactics meant that they broke quickly with long balls forward whenever they could, by-passing most midfield engagement making for an exciting contest which almost paid off for them. I enjoyed the match because much of it was played the way we used to play football before we got sucked into the fannying about in the midfield we now put up with.
I was annoyed with the whole commentary team supporting Russia – as they knew Russia would be an easier foe for England than Croatia.
Modric is the best player I have seen at the tournament so far.
Brian Doonthetoon @ 9.31 pm
Thanks for that and I hope this finally lays to rest the idea I’m feminine.
Sian = Jane = lass
Sion = Sean/John = lad
(Traditionally, no ‘j’ in the welsh alphabet …)
Yeah, SNP Nicola Sturgeon definitely worn out done for rubbish need a new leader need a new party 11 years it’s all over the woman’s no use
Best performing everything in the UK
Membership through the roof at 130.000
Support for Independence at it’s highest since 2014
Nicola Sturgeon covers every inch of this country selling the SNP every single day to every single person she meets or the Independence question wouldn’t even be a question
Nicola Sturgeon did something Alex Salmond couldn’t do, she sold the party to Scotlands women and that’s evidenced by the increase of women in the party membership, and that’s just the adult members not even counting the youth members we have now
But she’s defo rubbish and needs replaced
Does she get paid for that incoherent waffle on sky papers ?
I think I’ve spotted Jim Sillars on this thread, guess who?
@Dr Jim
I have to agree with you.
I’d go over the top with Eck every day of the week, but somehow women need more convincing & Nic has bridged that gap.
She truely is extraordinary.
Gfaetheblock
You are Jackie Bird and I claim my fiver…. 🙂
Croatia-Russia great game. Russia so obviously not in the same class as Croatia technically, but full cred to them for sticking to the game plan and really going for it – almost paid off.
Pity Fernandes missed a pen as he was by far the best Russian player.
Modric – what a player. As I’ve often said, he is the engine of Real Madrid, often overlooked but absolutely essential in their Champions League domination during the past three years. England may struggle when they finally meet a top team, on Wednesday.
Just popped online to see the result. Very disappointing that there won’t be an England/Russia encounter with a VIP in the box with Vladimir Putin. Still. Onward and upward.
Macron has already booked his stadium seat. Don’t think Theresa will be able to go after all the nasty things she said about You Know Who. But Boris might.
More glorious glory next week then, plus a state visit from Donald Trump. Don’t know if I can take much more mirth.
Ha ha Prince William, Prince harry, Boris, treezas man, cammers, gfaetheblock, rock, Colin alexander, Phil Robertson you won’t be able to go and see your team because of mi5 false flag incompetence ha ha
As I don’t pay for the “establishment TV licence” I cannot watch live TV. However, having been on a wee sortie down in the central belt/southern-shires, I managed to see a few WC games.
I am going out on a limb here, if England win games by playing “honest football” then I will be the first to congratulate them, its not the players I despise its the media, “who totally embarrass everyone”.
For me Neymar is the worst example of a so called sportsman I have witnessed in a long time, “very happy he is on the bus home”, having watched his theatrics someone should tell him that acting like he has been shot when tackled, he should look at Palestinians who are actually shot by Israeli murderers when playing football, then he might realise he is just another TWAT playing to the gullible.
Did somebody spike the Swedes food with Valium?
What a lackluster, sleep inducing performance by Sweden.
Can’t take anymore of this England crap.
Please Croatia, send these bastards home on Wednesday.
@Welsh Sion says: 7 July, 2018 at 8:10 pm:
” … Could I submit a story of mine to you about the history of this “Disunited Kingdumb”? You will find a link to me via “Off topic” here or my profile via LinkedIN.”
Why not post it here on Wings, Welsh Sion? There is an obvious interest in the history of how this dreadful union came about that is of interest to all of us. The perpetrators of the wrongs are the same nation and the wrongs are very similar.
Far as I can make out all that differs is that while in Scotland’s case we have the advantage of a long established, and internationally recognised, different Rule of law. While the wrongs perpetrated upon Wales and Ireland by England were carried out while all three countries/monarchies, (pre-1320), fell to Perfidious Albion were all carried out, (by force), and by compelling upon them the English legal system. Although under the same rule of law that rule of law was forced upon both and so were all under the English Rule of Law.
As it only gets applied to Scotland because Westminster chooses to illegally ignore that the people of Scotland are unarguably legally sovereign it makes the Scottish case able to be taken to international court level.
That, though, will ultimately give Wales and N.I. a far stronger case if/when Scotland legally regains her independence. If for no other reason than Scotland’s freedom will weaken the Kingdom of England as England has never suffered actually being the underdog before.
Well not since the Romans left and it wasn’t England then anyway. As see it, and I could be wrong, the combination of the UK BRExiting and Scotland leaving the union will see England weaker than ever before and Wales & N.I. can virtually just walk away and yell over their shoulders as they go, “Well then Perfidious Albion – what you going to do about it”?
Gary 45 said
‘For me Neymar is the worst example of a so called sportsman I have witnessed in a long time, “
Neymar is one of the best examples ever of a bad cheat in football.
Clever cheats like Harry Kane and and Sergio Ramos are far more valuable to their teams.
Hope Ian can get some division/voting in UK Parliament for Wednesday round about 7 o’clock,
Wednesday 11 July 2018
Time – Business
11.30am Oral questions
Scotland
12pm Prime Minister’s Question Time
Ten Minute Rule Motion
National Health Service – Eleanor Smith
Opposition Day Debate
Universal Credit; Shipbuilding
Adjournment
Visas for non-EEA citizens employed in the fishing industry – Mr Alistair (confirmed liar) Carmichael.
anyhoo,
Fifa world rankings of last 4 in lousy fitba thing,
Belgium 3rd
France 7th,
Land of the Germanic Angles 12th,
Croatia 20th,
Scotland 42nd and getting worse,should call it a day with the mens international lousy fitba.
Salmond with his background including Westminster was right for Indy Ref 1 and Cameron, Sturgeon with a law background is right for Indy Ref 2 and May. It’s possible in case Rees-Mogg is thrust on us in a few months that the SNP are cloning from various scattered limbs, to bring back William Wallace, but shhh, it’s a secret. If it’s Boris they’ll just bring back Dolly, that’ll do his jig. Baaaaaa! It’ll be love at first sight.
Oh I forgot. There’s some talk right now about the word “underclass”, which I’ve decided I don’t like at all, took me long enough to think about it though. Labels like words can be useful from the outside, carefully, but if those labelled believe in the label they’re doomed, they have to fight the label first. Better just to fight life like we all do and accept no label at all. But anyway from a deprived background, people can and do succeed if they’ve a mind for it, rather than accepting that’s where they are.
Found this earlier because of the usual ad hominem attack from an SNP-hater, and it’s interesting:
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/fixer-derek-mackay-talks-budget
Croompenstein says:
7 July, 2018 at 11:14 pm
Ha ha Prince William, Prince harry, Boris, treezas man, cammers, gfaetheblock, rock, Colin alexander, Phil Robertson you won’t be able to go and see your team because of mi5 false flag incompetence ha ha
Was it not Boris who advised English fans not to go to Russia?
Oooops they are now in the semis. Smaller than expected English support at games thus far. The old clown would have some brass neck to show up now, though I would not put it past him. 🙂
If May was practically on her knees bar a couple of inches to Wills, will she be lying on the ground for Trump?
For those interested in history, might I suggest Mighty Affair: How Scotland Lost Her Parliament by Charles Henry Dand, published many years ago. It is an extremely good read and brings into context a lot of what Robert Peffers has been saying but in the context of the time. You would certainly learn about the meaning of “bought and sold for English gold” and the part played by Fletcher of Saltoun and so on. It was published in 1972 so is uncontaminated with the politics of devolution.
It is available from abebooks.co.uk from £3.68 plus £2.75 postage. Search using ISBN: 9780050023563
Dakk
Neymar nae mair.
i.redd.it/bglqddgo2c711.gif
Got to admit the micro velcro top worn by Kane was, if nothing else, innovative.
A better link
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/8v9p8w/neymar_at_his_best/
Thank you Robert for your abbreviated Scottish history lesson at 2.12.Succinct and to the point.
If only a fraction of the Scottish population understood their history we would already be independent.
Also great post about a foreigner in our own land!
The newspapers and TV do not represent the views of 50% of the population in our country.
Newspaper wise it is 90% and TV it is 100%.
We have to establish a grip on the Britnat media.
Let`s have a good turnout in Inverness on the 28th July.
I still have a wee bet on Belgium for the WC.
Croompenstein@ 11.14pm
Will Podmore ……. He will dissapointed & re-appear soon ?
Croompenstein@ 11.14pm
Will Podmore …………. He will be dissapointed & re-appear soon ?
Mmm, here’s interesting, wonder where Scotland would stand? CT units per million of population, UK 3rd lowest.
https://nuggetcharts.com/posts/show/n0p8oKC2Fro3nFUR0bT0
Just bizarre the way the British Propagandists are billing Theresa May’s Brexit wish list as a “Deal”.
It proposes an end to free movement, and curtails the power of the European Court. Even a child can understand there is no way whatsoever the EU will accede to either of these. No cherry picking, and the Four Freedoms are indivisible. Couldn’t be clearer.
Theresa May’s Brexit deal is dead in the water before it even leaves the slipway.
If Theresa May’s Government was a World Cup squad, they have spent the build up squabbling over what colour of strip to wear, and after squandering two years before finally making their minds up, they now see victory as everybody agreeing to wear the same coloured strip. They haven’t given the remotest thought or preparation to actually playing the game of football. No tactics, no gameplan, no strategy. They don’t even know the rules of the game.
The Guardian has a “pick” on this article which should be called out.
Sorry not archived:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/07/england-sweden-world-cup-quarter-final-match-report
Breeks @ 05:45,
Know what you mean re preparedness. The SG could have done a way better job of it! =laugh=
The EU27 may be willing to consider various different possible arrangements, but the more special terms the UKGov insists upon, the further out into the darkness the UK will inevitably be cast.
One thing’s for sure, there’s no way that the UK with its present wish list will get anywhere near as good a deal as the current members of the EEA.
@Conan the Librarian
Thanks for that heads-up. Used, if it survives in the SH.
regarding the recent supposed agreement with Theresa May and her cabinet regarding the EU. Many people are talking of how the ‘rebels’ like Bojo capitulated and effectively gave in to her demands. But to read events in this way, is wholly naive, in my opinion.
Boris Johnson, despite his clown behaviour and pig ignorant outlook on life, is not stupid. In political strategy, or indeed any battle, you do not fight on your enemies ground or terms. The Tory rebels were locked in a room, with no phones, and told to agree. They would be fools to walk out at that stage. Of course they probably went to chequers with the intention of just playing the game – box clever, let Theresa have her little ‘victory’. Aside from being a pr*ck, Boris Johnson is also a very good political player – he knows how to choose his moments.
The Tory brexiteers could never win in those circumstances at chequers, and they would be smart enough to have seen that. They just smile and once free to leave, then take their ministerial cars off to fight their battle another day. Theresa May had in her hands an ‘agreement’ on paper only. You might say, she had a scrap of paper, for her party do not support it.
These people have not gone away. Theresa May has won a hollow victory over them. The issues are all still there, those hardline views are still there, and their are many in the Tory party who are not in the slightest happy with what is proposed.
No, Boris and his Brexiteer chums were smart enough to play along, knowing full well they could not win, with a gun pointed to their head. Make no mistake, they will extract their revenge at a time they choose, and Theresa May is unlikely to remain as PM.
This isn’t over.
Conan the Librarian @ 6:54 am: Archived for you.
England beat Sweden to reach first World Cup semi-final in 28 years;
http://archive.is/4vitI
Have a great day!
🙂
@Breeks
A deal they call it… A position only and after over two years? Barely that. A position that technically and ethically flies in the face of the EU’s stated charter, the GFA and the devolution settlement. A position taken by a government that has a bit of a problem with keeping its given word and assurances it appears.
Simple question for folks to ponder Breeks.
For a government with such a spiffing record of standing by its national and international commitments, why should the EU or indeed the peoples of these islands treat with them at all?
Worth a thought.
The Tories do not have a clue what they are doing. Neither does anyone else. Brexit is unaffordable. The farce will continue until there is a GE or IndyRef. People want to stay in the EU. The chaos continues, The World Cup will be used to cover up the follies. Some people are more interested in football than politics. Even when it affects their livelihoods.
Sectarian does not sell. Unmarketable, No wonder the terraces are empty. FIFA are a bunch of crooks, ruining the game and ripping off the punters. Perverts, embezzlers. bigots and racists. The name of the game. Shameful.
To me the World Cup is only of passing interest (sorry) and it is a matter of supreme indifference who wins it. As ever with collapsing empires sport is used as the diversion. Read about the fall of Byzantium when the two political movements were – believe it or not – the Blues and the Greens. We know haw well that went and the Brutish empire is going the same way. It is actually a tragedy for the English people that they appear to value a potential World Cup win to having the best Health Service, Education, Law and order and transport facilities in the UK. Unfortunately, like the rest of us, they have been brainwashed for hundreds of years with the Britain is best bullshit. They may win the world cup but what awaits is not going to be prevented by cosmetic buffoonery or showing off!
Westminster and the Tories, May, Cameron et al have cause the worse migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. The EU has to try and deal with it at great cost. UK/US and France have been bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Destabiling the world. Supporting apartheid regimes and absolute despot monarchies. The Balfour Agreement. Totally betraying the Arab peoples. Destroying their economy.
Britain/France (US) carved up the Middle East. They have been causing trouble there ever since. Killing and maiming millions of people. Breaking International Law. No thought for humanity. They have caused the refugee crisis in the world. Betrayal at every turn. Denial of democracy.
Hope everyone has seen the England fans in the Ikea store in London – just likeable lads letting off steam as their “heroes’ bring football ‘home’.
Thank goodness Wimbledon is on and no-one will ever ask me who I’m supporting.
I’ve just heard BBC Radio Shortbread, Bill Whiteford claim that Bill Jamieson ex editor of the Scotsman voted YES in the 2014 Independence Referendum.
Jamison has just agreed to this , his explanation is that independence would force Scotland to face up to economic reality.
Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t BJ live in England’s West Country.
Well done England, but, you’ve played nobody yet – well apart from Belgium, who WON the battle of two shadow squads.
You have won nothing yet.
And, particularly well done BBC, ITV and the English media, by your restrained, sensible and almost embarrassed reaction to England beating a poor Swedish team, you have surely driven more soft No voters over to the Yes camp.
Football could be: “coming home,” but, Independence is definitely coming home to Scotland, and the English media’s over-reaction to their team winning a football match will definitely be a factor in this.
Andrew Marr – what a walloper – in his stupid waistcoat.
@Clydebuilt
Bill Jamieson is also on Ruth Davidsons advisory team of how to beat the SNP team, also a man of great principles to whomever pays his wages until the next job that might pay him more
The restaurant analogy is always a good one for Brexit.
TMay and chums are so pleased that they have agreed, after much debate, to order Lamb Rogan Josh …. while sitting in Pizza Express.
Perhaps they should have read the menu first to check what’s on offer!
FIFA taking bribes to let the losers win. Graft and corruption. Suckering the punters in. The Bookies insider dealing always wins, Thanks to the sycophant Press. Hand in hand with corruption. Lucre crosses palms. Hands over fist. Everyone else is paying for it. Tax evaded public money. Subsidised. Offshore it. Ever increasing debts not paid. A gross cover up. It’s only a game. No fair play.
Andrew Marr this morning – one minute he is talking about England football as “we” are doing well then later on he has to correct himself and remind himself he is Scottish. Typical Britnats – do not know who they are. Mixed up and messed up Britnats – do not know if they are English Scottish British. Britnats can’t make up their minds if Britain is a country of a union. Totally confused brainwashed people.
Weird! Seems Sturgeon and Davidson both like what the May ‘team’ has cobbled together but which Brussels will undoubtedly put through the shredder. Hard Brexit will probably happen. Strategy for that Nicola? I assume you do have one?
May’s head has been put on the track awaiting the autoreturn of the Brexit engine. After May a deluge of hard line Brit nationalism with who knows riding it. A scary situation without a cunning plan. Are we really prepared for war?
It’s public money that subsidises the sport. Tax breaks and charity. Offshored tax evaded.
Foreign laundered money. Funded by UK taxpayers. In favours and privileges. To gain kudos and honours based on elitism. St George’s Park Centre. £100million? Olympic stadiums given away. Bribes to place venues. No wonder the terraces are empty.
Definitely not a level playing field.
albuhack
“..The times demand a new style of leader and leadership, that or another more assertive nationalist party..”
Form your own party then cos the First Minister is not going soon. The SNP is a “National Party”.
We saw how well the SSP party and similar conduct themselves in the past.
Gove is such a liar. What a complete and utter fool. Gie’s strength and peace.
Michael Gove does make you laugh while you’re mentally removing his head from his body with a blunt saw, the only thing is you know he’ll just slither the rest of himself back under a stone to emerge later still alive like some sort of Harry Potter slug
Cubby says:
8 July, 2018 at 9:25 am
Typical Britnats – do not know who they are.
Oh the Britnats know exactly who they are, Cubby. The Scottish variety does tend to hide behind a pathetic “unionist” shield to provide an impression of some respectability north of the border (which some scots sadly fall for). This is why I try not to use the term “unionist” any more. The union is dead anyway – what’s left, now exposed, are the British nationalists.
What confuses the hell out of these individuals is the fact that many of their fellow “brits” don’t agree with their world view. 🙂
How to spot an obvious Scottish
unionistBritNat has been easy during the world cup. Some independence supporters (like myself) bear no grudges and actually wish the England team well, but we don’t rant and rave about it. The Scottish britnats among us feel the need to shout it from the rooftops when England have a victory (seen any examples lately?). They just can’t help themselves – rather than secretly or quietly support England or wish them well, they feel the need to impress their English masters by vocallising their support. Rather sickening.Now why would a scot feel it necessary to publicise in a big way their support for Enlgand (like a dog). Who are they trying to impress?
Folks might find this blog interesting
http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86924
Bear in mind this author is a leaver, but wants something called Flexcit
Robert Louis,
The more pie-in-the-sky the ‘deal’ they agree to, the greater the likelihood of crashing out of the EU with no deal.
So basically it was a win-win situation for them. (Especially if they stand to make money from hedge funds betting on a no-deal exit).
From WGD …. “It’s not that Scotland doesn’t want England to win because Scots hate the English. It’s that we don’t want England to win because English sports commentators on that telly that we have to pay a licence fee for too are poor losers and even worse winners. Sports commentators are Brexit writ large. They have an unshakeable conviction that the English team is special and that the world owes it.”
Very true. It does go beyond just TV commentators, or even sport – Paul’s “Brexit writ large… unshakeable conviction … special” hits the nail. The behaviour goes much wider.
Scotland has its undertone of a national cringe while England has its undertone of a national superiority complex. Both have been there for a long time. The jingoistic heros of 1950’s boys comics and novels showing Johnny Foreigner ‘what for’ were always English not Scots.
With team England making progress to the late stages of the world cup, more and more excited Scottish
unionistsbritnats are joining in the celebration:They want to be part of the “ME TOO” crowd.
The same British nationalists that will crawl back under their “unionist” comfort blanket when it suits them. Don’t let them. Call them British nationalists, and watch their faces turn purple with rage. No-one likes to be confronted with an uncomfortable truth.
Bill Mclean Its only a excuse as Mr Kelly would say .
http://www.facebook.com/EFLChampManiacs/videos/908777419320761/?hc_ref=ARSCjP2Ss3Og1G4g0a96GA8GF-jp7UK2bD8uVd_ZLnOUGDgBsBiS6r4iqFp_Bv-cftc&fref=gs&dti=215556435841901&hc_location=group
The Open. Carnoustie. European tour. 19th July. Epic preparations in place. Looking good. Tennis still on going. New academy developments. Stirling. Athletic championships. Glasgow. Putting Scotland on the map. Tennis and golf established in Scotland. Olympic swimming, cycle champions. Sailing, rowing as well. Scotland are the champions of the world. Outdoors leisure pursuits. Walking and accessibility. ‘A right to roam’, the countryside.
The extra time part of last nights Russia Croatia game (skill level apart) was an amazing exhibition of commitment and credit to both those teams for their countries, what an effort and example of doing your absolute best giving everything you’ve got till you drop
There’s got to be a lesson in that
Bill McLean,
‘…they appear to value a potential World Cup win to having the best Health Service…’
They sure do, https://twitter.com/LynsGP/status/1015706525661323264
JK Rowling – yet again: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-6lz
Ken500, Dr. Jim
Anent Michael Gove:
My cousin far the North East says ‘they like Gove up there’…
None sae queer as folk!
Personally can’t stand the sight of the man.
I’ve no idea what the visa requirements for Russia but if it bars those with criminal records then that is probably why they have had few problems in Russia. The morons are all still in Enggerrland smashing up their own shops and emergency service vehicles.
I see the latest theory is that the couple who were poisoned in Salisbury were bin diving looking for stuff to resell and encountered a discarded container. Call me fussy but I would be fecking raging if my local council hadn’t empty the bins for the last four months.
My family, friends and neighbours are all from the northeast – although not Aberdeen itself – and everyone thinks Gove is a creepy little clype.
Found this on Wings twitter
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/after-150-years-the-truth-scotland-invented-football-8756018.html
printed in 2013 – would any newspaper apart from the National print such a thing now?
This new fun fad the head cases in England have of smashing up emergency vehicles could cost the lives of members of their own families and there should not be a fine imposed on the perpetrators of these crimes they should do heavy jail time for this madness
Totally incomprehensible bonkers nut jobs
It’s high time NATO kicked the US out and reformed as a European Defence Organisation, held out the hand of friendship to Russia and asked them to join.
For too long it has just been a tool of US Aggressive Foreign Policy and a means of keeping the US Military Industrial Complex in business by selling arms to the other NATO countries.
Without the MIC the US economy would collapse – IKE was right about its misuse of power.
@ Meg Merrilees – your cousin is wrong! No offence – I have cousins like that too. 🙂
Kudos to Bill Leckie in the SUN today for calling the England/Sweden game out for what it was. A borefest competed by two pedestrian teams
The US funds and controls NATO. Trumps is trying to cut the losses that the US can’t afford. Spending £Billions. Half the Federal taxes raised in the US on the military. Trump is trying to cut losses. Cut spending money on the Military. Cut US debt. Trump just goes around the houses in dialogue but that is the intention. Already has cut wasteful joint military exercises with South Korea, Antagonising China.
Independence Is Coming Home.
re: Croatia v Russia game.
I’m no expert in football, Croatia was the better team but Russia showed so much spirit as did their fans. Like Japan, I was hoping they would win and unlike me, I was shouting and cheering when they scored.
If Russia had won, I’d be supporting them against England. Like everyone else, I like a plucky underdog and besides, there are a lot of history between Scotland and Russia and despite what some quarters of the media would like you to believe, from what I’ve read the Russians are a really friendly set of people.
It didn’t happen so I’ll be supporting England against Croatia and hope England wins. Nothing against Croatia, I just don’t really know the country and it’s people but they seem more than a match for England and I have a greater emotional attachment to England.
It’s obvious that from some quarters that any Scot who doesn’t support England are anti-English, bigots, racists etc. What a lot of nonsense. England is not our country and we have the right to either support or not support that countries team. Anybody who suggests otherwise can be accused of bigotry themselves.
@Welsh Sion,
The strange/great paradox about the whole `being British` thing is that the Welsh and the Scottish are actually British where the Angles or English are German,it`s in the name.
being British should not be about the murderous Brutish Empire it should be about the indigenous peace loving native peoples of the British Isles like the nations of Wales and Scotland,
the blind thugery of the Unionist has corrupted the meaning of being British to mean being part of the most evil empire in human history,
the Welsh put up a fight before being assimilated by the Angles,Scottish Uncle Jocks just handed over the keys to our nation for a bag of silver and some Angleish titles.
re: NATO
It is in Russia’s interests to have a stable Europe but I’m not sure they would want to involved in any military alliance with it. Sure, co-operation on the likes of terrorism and shared arms deals is fine Russia has it’s own objectives on the world stage which will at times directly compete with Europe.
America’s involvement in NATO is going to diminish and rightly so. Russia isn’t a threat to Europe nor does it desire to get involved in Europe. Recent Russian aggression has been in response to NATO aggression. America’s interests is now in the South China sea and they will need as much military expenditure as they can to compete against China if they want to keep their influence in that region. It’s logical that in the long term, NATO will cease to be.
cearc @ 8 July, 2018 at 10:39 am
IIRC, the Home office has rounded up all the passports of known hooligans and stopped them from travelling.
While I had mentioned in a previous post that the Russian people are friendly, their hooligan element are not. They aren’t pot-belllied dummies, sitting in pubs all day then coming out causing mayhem that the English lot are. They are fit, trained in martial arts and when they go to town, it 3 months hospitalisations for those on the receiving end.
In a way, it is a blessing for the thugs that were stopped from travelling as the Russian thugs are itching for a fight to prove themselves at the so-called reputation of their English brethren, built up by so many books, films and TV documentaries that glorify them.
‘The world spent $1.686trillion on arms in 2016, a 0.4 increase on 2015. The US (320 million pop) remained top of the military spending league last year $611Billion. 36% of the global total and over three times the amount spent by second placed China (1.2Billion pop)’.
US (320Million pop) spent $611Billion. 3.1%GDP
China (1.2Billion pop) spent $228Billion. 1.9% GDP
Russia (150Million pop) spent $66.3Billion 4.3% GDP
UK (66million pop) spent $47Billion, 1.8% GDP
Saudi Arabia (33million pop) spent $69Billion 10% GDP
See who the warmongers are? Spending money on the military instead improvements in the world economy and the people.
The UK EU contribution covers the benefits of joint Defence Bill alone. Plus the other economic advantages. Nearest largest market. Good social Laws. Grants and investments. Stop war and starvation in the world.
US/UK and France are the warmongers.
Trump talks with Putin next week.
Luigi @ 8 July, 2018 at 10:11 am
I know where you are coming form but looking at it the other way, over the past week, I have heard a lot in at work moaning about English this, England that and how they hope that England loses. One of these I know voted against independence because they had openly said so constantly at the time and it wouldn’t surprise me if these moaners had voted against indy themselves. It does seem that they want to British when it suits them.
As I said, I will be supporting England. Independence is not only a political outlook but also one in thought. Don’t concern yourselves with these BritNats, the English commentators and certain elements in England. If you want to support England, support England, if you don’t then don’t.
I know football is a very boring game, but is that why the prima donna millionaires who work for the football companies have to have silly hairstyles? To try and make the tedium seem interesting?
Putin is hardly a peacemaker and any rosy extreme left wing view that he is are deluding themselves. I think Russia needs to be added to the list. China builds man made islands and say the seas around Korea Japan etc is theirs. India, Pakistan nuclear powers, Israel too.
It’s a dangerous old world.
Cubby @ 8 July, 2018 at 9:25 am
These individuals are constantly doing things to please others. They aren’t mentally strong enough to develop themselves as individuals to know when to stand up and so no when it needs to be said. In this instance, Marr is Scottish and can support English when he wants to but he shoulnd’t feel the need nor be pressurised to say “we” when referring to the English football team.
I do really a bit of pity them for the position they have made their bed so need to lie in it. Besides, the likes of Marr is making plenty of dough so nobody should be losing any sleep over him.
Since 1990’s Russian has released more people to self determination and freedom. Then any other leaders. 150Million people. Gorbachev – Putin et al. Glasnost and Perestroika. (USSR).
German unification. Improved economy.
Russian pop 150Million. Former USSR pop 300million (on par with US) Poland, Latvia , Lithuania, former Baltic States, Ukraine now self determination. Now self governing. Total 150Million people.
No wonder Putin is so popular in Russia, 80%? rating. Increased prosperity and reduced poverty. Poverty 15%.
11WW devastated Russian economy. 26Million people died defending the West. Devasted and Russian economy. Too much democracy and still economic improvements necessary. Not perfect but vast improvements. Countries have the right to protect their borders.
Putin is one of the great statesman in the world. Supports democracy, freedom and peace. Unlike US/UK and France causing illegal wars and trouble on Russian borders.
Putin supported Scottish Independence and self determination. To Cameron’s lies and trickery. The Tories can get lost telling their lies about Russia. The crook Boris Johnstone wandering the world causing trouble. Criminal imbecile.
ken500
I really do think you are deluding yourself big time that you believe kgb Putin is a fluffy pro democrat and supports independence and peace worldwide.
Still each to their own.
ps I can also dislike the tories as I have all my life. Its not one or the other, black white, communist/capitalist.
Trump/Putin are power hungry – end of.
I note with interest that Jackson Carlaw “car salesman” ready enough to appear on SP but not GMS what a pity that Brewer did not have the guts to ask him about the dark money but then again that’s the BBC for you.
Gordon Brewer a man who doesn’t understand the difference between yes and no and who claims he needs a Uni course in order to define the question when the SNP puts it but somehow Gordon manages to get the phrase *banging on about another Independence referendum* into the conversation with Michael Russell MSP and Brexit Minister for Scotland
Mr Brewer then invites two of his Tory colleagues both red and blue to confirm that they also don’t understand the difference between yes and no so the answer must therefore be SNP Baad
Apparently in the minds of the red and blue Tories and the BBC whatever Scotland chooses will be worse than whatever England chooses for us even if England chooses the worst possible options on all things that will still be far and away much more preferable to Stupid thick Scottish people having a choice on anything
Beacoz we iz fikk man, we is so toetily fikk
England cannot complete Brexit in any meaningful way without putting up for sale the assets of Scotland, and if England doesn’t have the assets of Scotland they cannot afford to subsidise Northern Ireland and Wales without the value of Scotlands assets
If that’s not 100% percent clear to anybody by now you’ve been living in a cave or the Rangers dugout your whole life with an orange tinfoil sash wrapped round your nut
Independence for Scotland is the answer to everybodies dillemma because you get the right to choose, in Brexit England there will be no rights to anything except the right to do as you’re told without recourse to a vote on whether you like it or not
What’s so difficult for some folk to understand?
Since the 1990’s Gorbachev – Putin et al have realised more people in the world to democracy and freedom. (Because they had to? )Self determination than any other leaders (ever?) 150Million people. USSR 300million people. (On par with US pop) Russia now 150Million people. Halved. Russia is more prosperous economically and poverty has fallen, as a result of these reforms.
The US and Russia has to reduce Military costs because it was bankrupting both countries. 1980’s Reagan/Yeltsin/Gorbachev. Reduced nuclear weapons. The US continues to spend too much on the Military. It cannot afford, Too much debt. The most in the world.
Trump ( the businessman) has decided that the US is spending too much on the military.
Hence his deal on the Korean Peninsula initially with help from Chinese leader ( whom he views as his “ man in Far East”). He has also signalled to Europe that he views Putin now as “ the main man in Europe” hence his call for Putin to rejoin the G7/8 . Thus he has “ downgraded the special relationship” ( its costing him dollars which he would prefer to “ invest” at home.). The U.K. government now feel like they have been “ spurned” and have directed their vitriol at Putin , and no doubt will be redoubling efforts with Trump on his “ state visit” to change his mind on this . However he has made up his mind to slash military spending and is probably much more interested in a trade deal which will be much more to his advantage.
HandandShrimp says:
8 July, 2018 at 10:41 am
…..I would be fecking raging if my local council hadn’t empty the bins for the last four months.
I would be raging that after all the money spent on my weapons grade deadly neurotoxin that was proving so singularly incapable of killing anybody. Novichok clearly does not do what it says on the tin.
@Hamish100
Indeed, Russia and China do represent a real threat, and do need defending against, even if at the same time there are opportunities for joint ventures, like the recent reawakening of the space projects.
One thing the US needs to remember though is that since it buys in little defence its own 3.57% of GDP 2017 spending (slighty up from 2016 at 3.56%) is mostly spent in its own country as it imports not very much from the rest of the world. With an economic muliplier of perhaps 0.5 rather than 0.6, that makes it a nett 1.8%. Compared with the UK where its 2% or 2.2% at perhaps 0.3, some equipment like ships themselves but not missiles apart from e.g. MBDA, and people spending their wagges here, amounts to nett 1.4% to 1.5%.
But whereas the UK exports some to the ROW, the US exports a whole lot. That does two things, one being in profits for US-based defence companies, but second it makes the cost of development of new kit like the F35 way cheaper. With the setbacks and cost escalations of the F35, without that market the US would almost certainly have canned the project, and there are many similar.
So if the US turns its back on Europe, which on the face of low spending like in Germany of just over 1.2% of GDP is justifiable, it also turns its back on that market over time, and its partners like Italy in the F35 project, possibly even the UK, a Tier 1 partner.
How much of Trump’s posture is bluff, no idea, since he’s unpredictable possibly none.
@Hamish100 says:
8 July, 2018 at 12:14 pm
ken500
I really do think you are deluding yourself big time that you believe kgb Putin is a fluffy pro democrat and supports independence and peace worldwide.
Trump/Putin are power hungry – end of.
Don’t think Putin is power hungry at least in the sense of wanting to rule the world, as the yanks do. He is of course absolutely ruthless and you’re right to have a go at the idea he is some kind of “fluffy” democrat. However I believe he is very pragmatic and aware of the limitations of Russian power these days. He is willing to resort to military force but tends usually to use no more than necessary and then stops unlike the yanks who go in for overkill (pun accidental but appropriate). He is someone “we can do business with” and why not when you look at the other people we’ve done business with like the Saudis and various dictators round the world. Yet Russia is somehow beyond the pale?
Croompenstein says:
7 July, 2018 at 11:14 pm
“Ha ha Prince William, Prince harry, Boris, treezas man, cammers, gfaetheblock, rock, Colin alexander, Phil Robertson you won’t be able to go and see your team because of mi5 false flag incompetence ha ha”
Rock (18th March – “The usual suspect”):
“Nicola and the SNP made utter fools of themselves by supporting Saint Theresa, in my humble opinion.
Did they not know of the “sexed up” dossier on Iraq’s non existent weapons of mass destruction?
How can anyone supporting Scottish independence ever side with Westminster on such matters?
If Nicola had kept her mouth shut, posters here, you included I am sure, would (rightly) be attacking any independence supporter who stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa in condemning Russia.”
Rock –
Geeussa a break, iye?
Your repetition of the same half dozen sentiments, rolled out on rotation every three or four days, impresses nobody.
You’re a busted flush. Do you not know any decent jokes (apart from yourself) that you could share with the WOS readership?
Would make a change from your constant anti-Sturgeon, anti-SNP crap.