The mists are suddenly clearing
The Daily Mirror’s “Ampp3d” offshoot used to be a fantastic resource for statistical debunking, and sometimes still is. But ever since it’s been officially absorbed into the Mirror, it’s been increasingly deployed as a Labour spin tool.
Today it tries to juggle numbers to excuse Gordon Brown’s bargain-basement sale of the UK’s gold reserves in 1999 – a subject that was raised by an audience member on last night’s Question Time special and which we now know with certainty cost the country a whopping $19bn (or £12.5bn at current exchange rates).
We’ve added the emphasis on that last sentence. And it’s a fair enough point broadly speaking, although of course with the gold sell-off we’re looking back with the benefit of hindsight about what actually did happen, not trying to guess, so calling it “fantasy maths” is somewhat inaccurate, given that it’s exactly the opposite of a fantasy.
The trouble is that Ampp3d isn’t always so dismissive of predicting the future.
Because here’s part of an article it published just six weeks ago.
The “forecasts” referred to go up to 2020, which is half a decade away. Yet the higher prediction is mockingly denoted in the graphic under huge block capitals describing the OBR’s as definitively showing “WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN”.
So it seems that you can predict the price of oil with absolute conviction half a decade in advance, yet it’s “completely bonkers” to imagine that you can do the same thing with gold, which is historically a far LESS volatile commodity over the long term.
It’s quite the fortuitious coincidence that those two apparently contradictory principles both happen to conveniently serve the political interests of the Labour Party. Or maybe someone just dropped their crystal ball.
I’ll use my crystal ball here – I predict as a resource like oil becomes more scarce the price will rise. There I’ve had my Nostradamus moment.
I’ll have another one – once the opec nations and the big oil companies run by the likes and bush, dick Chaney and others stop trying to destabilise Russia and other areas of the world by over production of oil and messing around with the figures the oil price will rise.
I knew a guy with a glass eye and a crystal ball – he could see himself coming.
It was another 3p a litre more expensive to fill the chuggy today than it was last week. I predict it will be up again before May is oot!
I notice that loose cannon Sturgeon has cut the hair off Gypsy Grandma… just terrible 🙂
Another angle
link to zerohedge.com
They don’t have the Euromillions numbers for tonight by any chance?
The price of oil is recovering and has shown a steady rise over the last month. It will be over the $100 a barrel mark before the end of the year.
It still is Scotland’s Oil.
Hold on!
Brown announced the sale of Gold a week in advance. This was an unheard off procedure. Traders having the knowledge that a large amount of Gold was about to hit the market depressed the price of Gold prior to the sale.
It was irresponsible behaviour and it cost the UK a significant amount of money.
This take on why Broon sold off the gold so cheaply answers a lot of questions, but suggests huge corruption on his part.
link to blogs.telegraph.co.uk
Where was a jock strap ever more pertinent?
For sure, someone’s (crystal ball) predictions need a tad supported, what with all the weight of dubiety that they seem to contain.
(BTW: whatever happened to Mystic Meg?)
On Scotland Goes Pop:
Postal V update. Moray has c14,000 PV applications and according to the weekly Northern Scots 52% of them have already voted. So c 10% of registered vote has already voted. I can only describe todays letter page in it as rabidly Brit Nat, I wont be buying that paper.
Can anyone shed any light on the suggestion that Jackson Carlaw had mentioned tactical voting in the PV ballots. Did he say he had seen them?
That’s quite a financial black hole that the idiot Gordon Brown has left for future generations. Thatcher sold the family silver, but Brown sold the gold. What a legacy.
We get robbed all the fuckin time by Westminster elite I for one am sick of it if labour force another 5 years of tories on Scotland cos they don’t want to work on deals or vote by vote on bills with the SNP it won’t just be the labour party that dies…take that hint Murphy and milliband!
It should also be noted that the OBR the IFS and every other statistical analyst on just about everything on the planet that can be measured
Measures it wrong….CONSISTANTLY…. and that’s the only thing that’s %100 guaranteed as accurate
Being wrong is really easy
But making the same mistakes over and over hoping for a different outcome is plain stupid
Which is I suppose IS one thing The Yookay gets right
Did I make sense there? or am I wrong?
I’ve a funny feeling that oil graph will be used by us very soon.
Gold actually topped out at $1900.
Also, I have read serious articles in the past that our gold was sold in a shady deal in order to help out a serious related problem in Goldman Sachs.
The UK was apparently happy to sell our gold, which was at it’s low point, to help them out as requested. ( sorry I have not searched for the link yet )
But skulduggery was involved and Gordon Brown was up to his neck in it, according to the articles.
You have to remember that Broon has been a burden on the state since he left school, he never had a proper job and was promoted far beyond his capabilities.
As far as I can see there is absolutely no defence for Broon the Loon and his selling off of the U.K.’s gold reserves. As Thomas Pascoe states in this piece in the Daily Telegraph Broon broke with not one but TWO conventions in relation to the selling off of the gold.
Convention 1.
He announced the sale of the gold well in advance of the actual sale. If memory serves me right here he announced the sale around 5 p.m. on the Friday, AFTER the London Stock Markets had closed. (4:30 p.m.) New York Stock Exchange is around 5 hours behind London so they had around 4 hours to themselves effectively to *ahem* manipulate the gold price BEFORE the actual gold sale began on the following Monday.
Convention 2.
The gold was sold via an auction. By selling the gold in this way the Treasury, i.e. Broon, were electing to sell the gold at a lower price than it would normally be sold at had the normal convention been followed.
This is what had happened on an enormous scale by early 1999. One globally significant US bank in particular is understood to have been heavily short on two tonnes of gold, enough to call into question its solvency if redemption occurred at the prevailing price.
Goldman Sachs, which is not understood to have been significantly short on gold itself, is rumoured to have approached the Treasury to explain the situation through its then head of commodities Gavyn Davies, later chairman of the BBC and married to Sue Nye who ran Brown’s private office.
Nothing like keeping it in the “family” as far as Broon the Loon is concerned it appears.
link to archive.is
Ain’t stats great. Just use the ones that suit, out of context and issued by trusted unionist think tanks and hey presto…SNP BAD!
[…] The mists are suddenly clearing […]
You’ve got to hand it to the unionist media.
They are almost as persistent as Wings in their attempts to expose weaknesses in their opponents policies and arguments.
Almost but not quite.
The other difference is they lie and obfuscate.
Keep at’em Stuart !
Fred at 3.18
Not strictly true. He was a TV journalist at STV for some time
And all of this shyste is fundamentally for keeping England’s control of Scottish resources such as oil and gas. Or as Crash Gordon says. pooling and sharing it. Scots oil is probably one of the most powerful drivers behind UKOK rule Britannia Project Fear stuff.
Broadly speaking, Its not even the amount of oil left, its comparing how teamGB owns and runs Scots oil, with countries like Norway. The biggest rational argument for teamGB style economic control is that the multi trillion quid giant UKOK pension industry is all that matters and owns much of it. Its a lot different on the other side of the North Sea but the City boys make loadsamoney.
I predict most Labour Supporters will be sooking Barley Sugar from 10pm on 7th May to the wee small hours of 8th May. As most folks know, Barley Sugar reduces the incidents of nausea and vomiting.
I also predicts many YES folks having a big cheesy smile that will be near impossible to wipe out.
Do I win a lollipop?
Stephen.
#Karmanaut
The Washington Agreement was reason the UK sold it’s gold at that time.
Under that agreement other countries, like Switzerland, also sold their gold.
link to snbchf.com
Scotland doesn’t have any oil the oil belongs to the
Extra Regia Territory, I don’t know who the Prime Minister of that place is or which Political Party it is
Bit of a puzzle though innit
Why do we think someone would name a dod of sea a place that’s got nothing whatsoever to do with the country it sits next to
If I could just work it out?
O/T Just read that Ian Davidson MP has appealed direct to Labour HQ for help as Murphy`s campaign has been less than inspiring.
Davidson of course backed Findlay for the leaders post election last year.
Murphy nae joabs with any luck this time next week.
O/t new and final Ashcroft polls out – 2 in Scotland. SNP predicted to win East Ren and Mundell’s seat. HOWEVER,the SNP lead is down in East Ren – Labour up 5 points and Tories down 5 points. I did suspect there would be tactical voting in the seat and it looks like Tories voting to keep SNP out. But Labour voters don’t seem to be returning the favour in Mundell’s seat.
O/T
UK gov must be leaning on State Broadcaster exceptionally hard to press the point that the FPtP voting system is no longer fair as it gives SNP an advantage at WM elections.
Jeez you couldn’t make it up SB keep hitting at this now anything to curb the SNP.
SNP Bad / SNP Bad / SNP Bad
Maclolm Bruce now scolding the Scots for their possible choice of SNP MP’s .. most un democratic to the Union you see 🙂
“Scotland is now turning in on itself and will drift to the periphery if they opt for being so insular” “We voted NO !”
Boo Hoo Malcom; what a tube, how did he ever get elected ?
And yet hundreds if not thousands of proud scots believed Toom tabard Browns Bullshit. Makes you sick.
In East Renfrewshire, Jim Murphy has narrowed the gap from nine points to three since my previous poll earlier this month. This seems largely down to Conservative voters – the Tory share is down five points, and Labour’s up five, since my last survey, and remaining Conservatives are less likely to rule out moving to Labour than in most seats. Nearly a quarter of those who voted Conservative in the constituency in 2010 now say they plan to vote for Jim Murphy.
The unholy alliance! He needs the Tories to win votes. What about that Jim?
Trouble with oil is we keep finding more of the stuff
Aw Naw…Even mair problems…Wur Doomed again…
When will it end
Latest from Lord Ashcroft`s polls.
“In East Renfrewshire, Jim Murphy has narrowed the gap from nine points to three since my previous poll earlier this month. This seems largely down to Conservative voters – the Tory share is down five points, and Labour’s up five, since my last survey, and remaining Conservatives are less likely to rule out moving to Labour than in most seats. Nearly a quarter of those who voted Conservative in the constituency in 2010 now say they plan to vote for Jim Murphy.
Unfortunately for the Tories, Labour voters seem unwilling to return the favour in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale, where the SNP have extended their lead from two points to eleven. Only 7 per cent of 2010 Labour voters have switched to the Tories, and 82 per cent of current Labour supporters rule out doing so”.
It is still there for the winning folks.
gordoz
Malky Bruce got elected on the back of anti Tory votes in the first place.
He sees his peerage and tax payer funded freebies now slipping over the horizon.
HOWEVER,the SNP lead is down in East Ren – Labour up 5 points and Tories down 5 points.
Well check out the vote Murphy BBC Scotland propaganda machine on their radio news alone. On the hour everyday and from now til May 8, creepy Jim gets his own BBC irn bru box across Scotland with his “vote SLabour if you want a Labour govm, SNP badm fairer economy, 10000 nurses etc” speech, unquestioned, uninterrupted and in full. No other candidate but this fraud gets a word.
BBC Scotland is a major political force in Scotland but noone in Pacific Quay is elected and thats why Morphy is creeping back. Otherwise he’d be history.
O/T – Morag will like this – Ashcroft is predicting an 11% lead for SNP in Dumfries, Clyde & Tweed:
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
I’d love to see an up-to-date poll of Roxburgh, Selkirk & Berwick!
O/T regards Jackson Carlaw’s comments on postal voting.
East Renfrew new Ashcroft poll, SNP lead down to 3%. The 5% jump to Murphy comes solely from Tory voters. If it’s happening here, then surely it’s happening in other parts of Scotland and this is what Jackson is seeing?
Are we going to end up with 2 horse races all over Scotland between anyone but the SNP,and the SNP? A bit like Ulster!
I doubt it, but like someone mentioned earlier, if you’ve got a spare hour or too, go and help your SNP candidate. Every vote counts.
50 Tory activists outside WM today wearing SNP t shirts and Nicola masks. Oh dear. Saddoes.
On the subject of selling the family silver and family gold, what about selling the family oil.
In an article in The National April 30th, entitled ‘BP begins 7 year drilling of Loyal field’, it’s author Martin Hannan reports that BP and Shell each have a 50% ownership interest in the Loyal field, and that Shell, BP and OMV have divied up the “ownership interest” in the Schiehallion field.
An ownership interest is ‘a Right by law to manage, sell or donate property.’
This raises questions of who owns Scotland’s oil before it is discovered; who owns it after it is discovered by a drilling company; who owns it when oil is being pumped to the surface and brought ashore etc, etc.
But also questions as to how the total value of any given oil field is divided up among interested parties. It seems that these figures are close to being state secrets.
One thing is for sure; the value of the oil interests which this UK Govt. is ‘selling off’ makes what Brown did with the gold look like chicken feed.
And it is happening every day, right under our very noses as we sleep walk our way through yet another national financial scandal involving the transfer of national assets, oil, to the wealthy elite.
Jim Murphy depending on a unionist alliance to keep his snout in the troch.Rule Brittania,Jim.Does it feel good?
Gold! Oil! and the filthy lucre!
You won’t that in any foodbank. Time for change.
To all those Unionists/Shitstirrers/Idiots that think Shetland and Orkney can secede from Scotland if she votes for Freedom, can Glasgow and Dundee secede from the UK right now?
No, didn’t think so. So to all thoses shit stirrers. FUCK OFF.
Stephen.
Mealer says:
1 May, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Jim Murphy depending on a unionist alliance to keep his snout in the troch.Rule Brittania,Jim.Does it feel good?
It’s becoming clear now why he has been harping on about the SNP wanting another referendum – he is speaking to his own constituents. Murphy’s silent, blue rinse BT majority may well turn out and tactically save his neck in ER, but this will not go down well at all with the Labour rank and file elsewhere.
Still, I suppose that Numero Uno is the most important consideration, eh Jim?
The only Tartan Tory in Scotland is Jim Murphy
heedtracker@4.17pm
If the silly buggers want Jim Murphy, let them have him. Nobody else wants him, including his own boss.
Tory voters always seem to crawl out of the woodwork at elections, if they are presented with an alternative who doesn’t diverge too far from their Tory political mind set, because most of them are too embarrassed to vote actual upfront Tory in Scotland anymore.
Its why there are so many Lib Dems constantly re-elected in the Highlands.
Jim Murphy and Ed Milliband in City Halls, Glasgow. Tonight 6-6.30 tonight.
link to twitter.com
Torygraph-“Milliband prepared to work with the SNP on a vote by vote basis”
Does anyone get the feeling Cameron and Miliband have worked out this latest threat between themselves
Let’s hope Scotland doesn’t bottle it again
The rest of the world must laugh their heads off at us Brave Scots
To quote Warren Buffet
‘Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat,energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching the leaks’
I am fed up patching a leaking boat,keeping these troughers going,let’s get rid and put our energy into worthwhile people and projects.
Support your SNP candidate,yes the waters will get choppy but it’s a good honest crew,it’s time for change.
I predict a Riot! lol
Old Brown Gravy Train can add to his £12.5 Billion down the drain highlights by adding his removal of the 10p tax rate for the lower paid, his £10 Billion Pension grab from private pensions and the end of Final salary pension schemes, his part in the Lives and £Billions lost in illegal wars, he would be in the Labour cabinet when they stole 6,000 square miles of Scottish Maritime waters, with 6 Oil Rigs thrown in, Oh and that famous scaremonger set of stories to skew the referendum, there will be no Scottish Pensions, No Blood Transfusion Service, No Organ Transplant List, etc.
He topped it all off with his biggest lie to date, the VOW.
The one he wouldn’t be around to deliver, the one that wasn’t constitutionally capable of being delivered, the one he guaranteed before asking for a petition to help him deliver. The watered down token he tried to call the Vow.
The man is an incompetent scum bag rolling in the tax free riches of his own Charity.
How many of you could spend £10,000 per week on a charity’s expenses while kids in your parish queue up at Food banks.
No wonder his jaw drops every time he tells lies!!!!!!!1
Sorry for going O/T here but if anyone is in Glasgow tonight and anywhere near the City Halls then you may like to pop along and see the *ahem* star attraction appearing for one night, or should that be one 30 minute show, tonight. 😉
If you do go along be sure and give the *cough* star and his side kick a *ahem* warm reception won’t you? 😀
link to twitter.com
Jim does seem to have a way with pensioners, especially Tory ones. It’s nice that he can rely on the Tory vote.
East Renfrewshire Age 65+
30% Con; 45% Lab — 24th-30th April
46% Con; 32% Lab — 11th-16th April
@Luigi:
IMO it’s been the case for a while now that Scottish Labour’s campaign has been geared almost entirely to Murphy’s self-preservation. The fact that he continually dodged the question about standing down as an MP to stand for Holyrood made that clear.
The plan is: see Labour get buried by an SNP tsunami, get himself saved by tactical Tory voters, then resign as ScotLab leader to “retire to the back benches”, to serve out his time and fatten his bank account. There will be plenty of cash opportunities via his Atlanticist, defence industry and pro-Israel contacts.
He wouldn’t have been able to do this without standing as Scottish branch manager, because he’d have had little direct influence on the campaign.
Ex-Falkirk MP Eric Joyce guilty of assaulting two teenagers
link to bbc.co.uk
Foresight+Hindsight=40-40 vision plus the ability to see into the future. I don’t possess the ability of foresight and I don’t know of anybody who does. I do however like everybody else possess tons of hind sight. …..But Dimsome Jim has got enough hindsight to sell wholesale and only the SLAB slaves are buying.
Ed Miliband now in Mags Currens constituency…she really must know so many secrets for all the bigshots to keep appearing in her voter zone
According to the London Evening paper tonight Andy Burnham the Labour Party will work with the SNP – see link to standard.co.uk
@icyspark 5:25pm
I wonder why that has happened. The Torys had some sort of chance of winning in East Ren yet they seem happy to switch to Labour and potentially let Miliband in. Also Murphy has been droning on about vote SNP let the Tories in, so if they took him at his word they should vote SNP.
I bet he doesnt push that line on the leaflets in his own constituency!
link to caltonjock.com
@bugsbunny says: 1 May, 2015 at 4:33 pm:
” … Shetland and Orkney can secede from Scotland if she votes for Freedom, …
Who cares, bugsbunny?
The international law of the seas is that any particular bit of territory that lies within a larger territories international waters, (that’s either the 12 mile limit or the 200 mile continental shelf extension), becomes an enclave within another country.
The law says an enclave can only lay claim to a very limited territory and in either Orkney or Shetland’s case there are no oil or gas fields within that limited territory.
In any case they have a problem in that they either go totally independent or go as part of England. (the UK is bipartite and ends if Scotland leaves).
In either case the islands then have the problems of supplies and communications. They would have to pay import and export duties to Scotland as a foreign power in Scottish waters or import from the English mainland.
“Who cares Bugsbunny?”.
I do. I had this argument in Ayr High Street last night after 6, from some fuckwit from the Labour Party who, in a loud obnoxious Yorkshire accent informed all that had ears that in the event of a YES vote second time around, if Orkney and Shetland vote NO, the Shetlands can secede from Scotland.
Using that mentality, I asked if Glasgow and Dundee can secede from the UK, resulting in much laughter and applause.
The last thing I expected was to be attacked on here for standing up to such scumbags. I’m well aware of the oil and 12 mile limit etc. That’s not the point. SHETLAND is SCOTTISH.
I expected to be attacked over this by Orangemen etc, but on here?
Jesus Wept.
Stephen.
Wait that can’t be right can it in East Renfrew ?
Tory vote goes to Labour = Get Jim Murphy
Seems they’re ‘Murphing’ into the same party after all.
Go Red Tories !
Red tory, blue tory mixing wouldn’t that produce a maroon tory then all we would need is a desert island without a postal voting system
Just watched Nicola on BBC news being interviewed by Sally Magnusson…she kept cutting her off and not letting her finish!! So annoying. Really poor interview asking Nicola ‘what if’ questions on a second ref when Nicola realistically couldn’t tell her in what circumstances another ref would be called – trying to explain it wouldn’t be up to her, but up to the electorate
Dire interviewing from BBC.
Not feeling the love from Sally, either….
I’ve heard it all now Sally Magnusson just asked the First Minister did she think it was healthy for the SNP to win a lot of seats in Scotland
Do we think she ever asked the Labour Party the same question when Labour were the dominant party
I’m so Effing outraged I’m bursting at the bloody seams with the blatant bias and BBCs Effing behaviour
No matter how this election goes now the BBC must be brought down and shown up for what they are
Control over Broadcasting must be fought for and bring in journalists who report the news as opposed to creating it
@ Dr Jim
Well the answer to Sally’s question is obviously a resounding YES. Sir Harry Burns, former Chief Medical Officer for Scotland, attributed the high levels of mortality in Scottish men to “hopelessness”. So the SNP, bringing the hope of a better future, will work wonders for the nation’s health.
An anonymous comment from Scotland Goes Pop:
icyspark says:
1 May, 2015 at 7:04 pm
I think you may be right!
Sorry for going OT, but in this article by Brian Monteith in the Evening News online has what I think are false stats on the present support for Independance. link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
His statement was
“Indeed the latest opinion polls show a majority against a second referendum and support for independence now at only 41 per cent. The trend is for it to fall further.”
I thought that all polls except one had shown a majority for Independence, but I could be wrong.
That’ll be the Sally Magnusson who asked the victorious Alex Salmond on the day the SNP won the 2007 SGE:
“What would you say to those people in Scotland who are frightened tonight”
@7.04pm post
“decent Labour majority with a strong Tory vote”
not
“decent Labour majority with a strong Labour vote”
Guys Dim Jim is still 3% behind! I know where I would rather be.
25% of Tory voters are now voting for Jim Murphy according to todays Ashcroft Poll.
He’s flushing the rest of SLAB down the toilet to save his own arse.
@Capella
Light relief felt
I thank you
With you on the Shetland thing. Let them stay with RUK and see how isolated they are. It can’t happen anyway just spurious drivel. They are part of Scotland and only Scotland can vote as a whole in the referendum. The islands are in the union because Scotland is in the union. When Scotland leaves they leave. Are they going to go from an independent nation back to the RUK following independence! This really is the dust bowl of political thinking!
Up and down the country Labour are begging for Tory votes.
I never thought I’d see the day but here we are.
Power at any cost, or in Murphys case, survival at any cost, repeat after me Red Tory, Blue Tory, Red Tory, Blue Tory………
IF….DimJim Murphy sneaks it with tactical voting in East Renfrewshire there is no place to go democratic in Scotland.
What this means is that a political carpetbagger, who constantly tells lies to bolster his own agenda, an individual who totally lacks credibility, will have worked, or will have had the system worked for him by the establishment’s BBC and MSM.
This is the reality. The game, as in ‘democracy’ will be a bogey.
Notwithstanding that each and every voter has a democratic right to vote for whoever they fancy will improve their lot is fair enough, but when that involves tactically voting so that a country will remain subservient to a larger neighbouring country, there’s a big democratic question asked.
If, by tactically voting against that smaller country these voters achieve some objective, that then, will create a caustic difference of opinion that either supplants democracy in the smaller country, or will be so corrosive that the stability of the political system in that small country will react unilaterally.
And there is the fact that his may in itself not be left to the smaller country to decide upon.
There is a cause and effect to it all, which may lead the larger neighbour to feel such ‘internal support’ needs protecting and bolstering and we know how much of a lead balloon that will become.
Silly people, stooopid gamesmanship!
bugsbunny “Shetland is Scottish”. And always will be. Stay cool.
Miliband still talking about his country again. Why doesn’t Magrit or Jim tell him he’s in Scotland and it is not his country, it is ours.
Cut this from political betting site.
Edinburgh Council: 60% of postal votes returned so far
Dumfries and Galloway Council: 18,000 returned so far
Highlands
CSER – 5,453 (61%); RSL – 5,964 (60.7%) & INBS – 9,604 (59.6%)
Ian Davidson and Margaret Curran know just how bad things are when their ‘boss’ has to rely on Tory voters to retain his seat. It’s such a shame Margaret and Ian don’t have the same luxury.
I’ll be on the edge of my seat early on Friday morning to discover how many of these three are left….if any.
Can’t wait.
Holy shit
Just seen a letter on Twitter Angus Mac Fergus from Murphy to pensioners.
Scaring them saying they would be £940 a year worse off if they vote SNP
FFS…..he knows no shame…..kinratbag
I am not on Twitter so cannot link would appreciate it somebody could link it on here
‘The net worth of the state is a measure of what we pass on to future generations, and the establishment of a sovereign wealth fund is a vehicle for achieving intergenerational equity’Atkinson Inequality p176
So after decades of UKOK we do not have any discernible fund that could have benefited all residing in the UK. Instead politicians prefer to leave their term in office with a level of public debt that they can use to control the future government.
The outgoing WM administration and those before it has consistently made the rich richer and made the poor powerless. The inequality gap is so steep now that we need a slow ideological revolution- the 1% cannot control itself and WM cannot either because they are the 1%- but we have an opportunity on May the 7th to speak as egalitarian democrats. This will an entirely new concerted political movement that WM will not understand nor embrace but we have a duty to the 99% to deliver the message via a large contingent of SNP MPs.
@bugsbunny says: 1 May, 2015 at 7:27 pm:
“I expected to be attacked over this by Orangemen etc, but on here?”
No one has attacking you. Least of all me.
How the hell can you think giving the real facts, which, by the way you didn’t do, is an attack upon you?
Let me put you right. If the Northern Isles were to democratically decide to go for any form of independence they would be almost exactly in the same position as Scotland seeking independence from the UK.
With one exception, Scotland would not become an enclave in the state they left’s territory. Scotland would thus retain her own territorial waters and air space.
For Pete’s sake, don’t you see simply claiming any territory cannot become independent because they are part of what they want to leave is a defence against them leaving is stupid?
You try that on anyone with a brain and all you will have done is give them the perfect defence AGAINST Scottish independence.
They tell you, “So if the Northern Isles cannot get independence from Scotland just because they are now part of Scotland then Scotland cannot be independent because Scotland is now part of the UK”.
Sheesh!
Carjam: if true Murphy should be jailed.
@carjamtic
link to twitter.com
Here is that fecking awful, disgusting letter that Jim Murphy is sending to scare pensioners.
“With the general election just a few weeks away…..”
Dear-oh-dear!
@bugsbunny.
“What’s up doc?!”
Leave the hypotheticals for the 8TH. You just might be pissing off a voter for the SNP. ( Like me who isnae a bloody soomoother)
RE Shetland/Orkney
Of course if they wish to go they can. I see no evidence at all that they do, however. Only ever heard that from unionists. It is really not an issue for now
@ Barontorc
Steady. Folk have every right to vote as seems best to them. That is absolute. You have to accept that some people, for whatever reason, wish to preserve the union; their own position; Scotland’s financial security; Scotland’s physical security – whatever.
It is up to us to win the arguments where we can. That is all
Jings: Mr Murphy pledges to keep pensions the lowest in the developed world. Haud me back
I seriously don’t know how a solicitor or the police are not involved in that letter from Murphy.
How the f··· can he get away with putting false information and threats in a letter designed to intimidate?
Can you imagine if that was from a company/salesman?
After the Ashcroft poll and the pensions leaflet..
Anyone still feeling ‘sorry’ for Murphy?
I don’t think telling lies is illegal. What law could he be prosecuted under?
O/T
Nana @ 10:50
icy @ 10:51
Thanks,saddens me that these older people are having their dignity diminished by a Labour Party heading over the edge and dragging some good people with them.
link to youtube.com
@icyspark says: 1 May, 2015 at 8:51 pm:
“Here is that fecking awful, disgusting letter that Jim Murphy is sending to scare pensioners.
That letter is an absolute disgrace, and on several levels at that. Murphy must think all these older folks are either bloody stupid or suffering some form of mental degeneration. Anyone with more than a single brain cell can see through the totally illogical thinking.
If the state pension scheme needs the contributions from the large English population then it also needs to pay out pensions across that same larger population. The letter is thus either aimed at idiots or written by one.
Secondly it assumes, without evidence, that the English Pensioners must be subsidising the Scots by larger contributions but as the whole UK are subject to the same tax regime then each individual, in the same financial circumstance, will pay the same into the system and will expect the same out in return.
The point is that in fact general taxation is paying the current pensions and the Scottish per capita GDP is higher than the English per capita GDP then, on average, Scots are paying in more than the English on a per capita basis.
Then there is the simple truth from the UK Civil Service that as the Pensioner has paid into the scheme they have a legal contract with the UK to pay out the pension they signed up to.
As I began so shall I end – this letter either assumes the recipient is an idiot or the author of it is an idiot.
Take your pick.
@shiregirl
To be fair to Sally Magnusson it is not her job to be showing the love to Nicola Sturgeon.
I agree with Fiona. It is embarrassing if people on here are calling for the police to take action on Murphy`s lying! He is a politician. Are we honestly saying that politicos on our side have never stretched the truth?
I realise Murphy is only one man. But psychologically most folk would be disgusted if he kept his job,even if we won 50 other seats.
He is the public face of the lying ,selfish partisan Labour party. We need him out of Scottish politics. If he does stay on with Tory votes. Who is he going to lead? 6 angry men!
Robert,
What I was saying to that Yorkshire Chappie, amounted to this:
“So if, as you say Shetland and Orkney could secede from a YES voting Scotland if they voted NO, then could a YES voting Glasgow and Dundee, secede from a NO voting Scotland, and by implication, Westminster?”
I was using his NO voting Shetlander argument against him, stating if that was the case, can Glasgow and Dundee be the nucleus of a Free Scotland?
I got applause, whilst he got laughed at with jeers and boos.
That was what I was trying to explain in my cack handed way.
I’m just touchie just now. All my neighbours are Orangemen and if I put up an SNP poster in my window, I’m liable for a brick through my windows or my tyres slashed.
Sorry.
Stephen.
@muttley79, so its embarrassing that I think its heinous and intimidating to the elderly, and say so? How many times a week do we hear of bogus cold callers in areas trying to con the elderly?
Not everyone is operating on razor sharp faculties either as Robert Peffers seems to think. Scammers and con men go around the doors because it works for them, so there must be a good calculated risk for them.
That is what Murphy is operating on here, so that’s ok then?
@Big Jock
It is up to the voters in Renfrewshire East to decide who to elect. It is only one seat. There is a danger in focusing in on Murphy to the exclusion of all else. He really is not important.
Exactly Muttley. We can sleep at night! Can Murphy?
You can win something but lose your soul on the journey. Murphy is a charlatan and keeping a job will not save him from his narcacism.
@Fiona says: 1 May, 2015 at 9:16 pm:
“I don’t think telling lies is illegal. What law could he be prosecuted under?”
Aye! Fiona, telling lies may not be against the law but doing so to defraud people is. As is doing so to intimidate them is illegal.
The best defence against this Murphy scam is to be able to refute his lies. I’ve already pointed out the flawed logic in the letter.
The basic flaw is his flawed simple arithmetic.
If the pension scheme needs the larger population of England’s contributions to fund it then it also has their larger population to pay pensions out to. In other words the greater the number of contributors is cancelled out by the greater number of recipients.
Which just leaves the per capita sums contributed.
The ONS figures show that in fact the average per capita GDP of Scotland is higher than the average per capita GDP of both England and the UK as a whole minus Scotland.
Per Capita GDP is that figure obtained by taking the total revenues of any given area and dividing it by the total population of that given area. Thus we can compare any given area with any other given area.
I’m working on memory for the next bit so it may have changed. London returns the highest per capita GDP, (due to the Financial sector and the Head offices of companies with tax gathered across the whole UK but returned from City head offices). Next comes Scotland.
However, the City is not a country and is cherry picking a rich square mile of a country. Again, from memory, N.I. ranked high in per capita GDP.
So either Murphy is ignorant of the facts or is banking upon the recipients of his letter being ignorant of the truth.
Watching Fahrenheit 9/11 and an apt quote from congressman Jim McDermott(Washington) “Fear does work, you can make people do ANYTHING if they are afraid” Moore “and how do you make people afraid?” “Well, you make them afraid by creating an aura of endless threat” ring any bells wingers?
@Valerie
Yes, it is appalling that they target pensioners. But to call for the police to take action is hysterical. A lot of people get more conservative as they get older, and therefore more scared of change. So in a sense Murphy and co are playing on their fears. This in no conceivable way is a criminal offense. It is horrible politics but it is not a crime.
Fiona @ 9:16
He’s sailing pretty close to the wind on misrepresentation, libel and slander as well as a total distortion (invention even) of facts in order to scare elderly people. Hopefully the National might pen a front page to highlight his disgusting lies.
Bugsbunny,
Dont forget to add the good yes voting folk of Lanarkshire into the mix…….doing us a disservice ha!
Cheers
“With one exception, Scotland would not become an enclave in the state they left’s territory. Scotland would thus retain her own territorial waters and air space.
For Pete’s sake, don’t you see simply claiming any territory cannot become independent because they are part of what they want to leave is a defence against them leaving is stupid?
You try that on anyone with a brain and all you will have done is give them the perfect defence AGAINST Scottish independence.
They tell you, “So if the Northern Isles cannot get independence from Scotland just because they are now part of Scotland then Scotland cannot be independent because Scotland is now part of the UK”.”
Uh-oh. Jimbo might be reading this and deciding that the last throw of the dice is East Renfrewshire UDI.
With a President For Life (or at least a nine year term).
It may not be illegal but it is immoral and frightening for some older people.
My parents were concerned about having to pay the Bedroom Tax. I had to take a lot of time to explain that as they own their own flat that they were not included. They still worried and repeatedly asked me to confirm that that was the case. MSM did not help. This type of letter would really worry them.
The only answer to Murphy’s scary black letter to the pensioners of ER is for the SNP to follow up with a strong rebuttal letter, stating categorically that Murphy is lying and destroying each untruthful point one by one. Distribute to every pensioner in ER.
ER SNP – better get moving if you want to win this one. Despicable Jim is ahead of the game!
@bugsbunny says: 1 May, 2015 at 9:55 pm:
“What I was saying to that Yorkshire Chappie, amounted to this:”
Yes I got your meaning. I was amplifying your argument – not putting it down.
“Sorry.”
No need for sorry, it’s a forum, a debate, an argument and we all have the same right to have our say. It is from such exchanges that we all gain better knowledge, not just of new facts but of how to get our arguments out to others.
Big Jock,
“Guys Dim Jim is still 3% behind! I know where I would rather be.”
As expected, on his way to scrap in next week.
As will do 25+ unionist MPs.
No, there will be no evidence of vote rigging.
Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
This is the British Establishment we are dealing with.
I’ll be delighted to be proved wrong.
Rock-I agree. Take nothing for granted. What happens if there are only 20 odd SNP gains confounding months of polling? What can we do? FUCK ALL, that’s what.
Valerie@10:04
Valerie you are correct,it is disgraceful,my da is 89 yrs old and we have him clued up on who’s who’s,he has all his faculties but his only source of info is TV/Radio/Post.
He voted yes and now SNP,his choice,no familly pressure/expectations,given the correct info everyone is entitled to their vote.
I worry for pensioners who also receive their info by these routes but have no younger people around to use as a sound board.
On reading some more tweets/re-tweets on this letter,it appears it has been forwarded to MSM newspapers and journalists to allow them to expose it,let’s hope they do. 😉
O/T
John Jappy blogs
link to fullfiscalautonomy.blogspot.co.uk
Surely, the local SNP can with a simple flyer attempt to debunk Murphy’s pension case and point out he is lying/scaremongering.
Strange goings on up here in Gordon.
For months we’ve been told repeatedly, desperately, shreikingly that only the LieDems can beat the SNP here, but today we get the Tory leaflet telling us “the LibDems are finished in Scotland”
Malcolm Bruce will be blowing a gasket right about now 😀
So much for tactical voting…
What a mess.
Rock at 10.27
Have you been doing any canvassing or street work?
Guys – eye on the bigger picture.
Tories voting Labour and vice verse long term is to our advantage – the birth of a single unionist neoliberal party preventing Slab moving back toward social democracy.
The disastrous Murphy still hanging about – all useful tools when SNP enter the bear pit.
This is not a football match – sometimes it is not good to try and win everything – it is a long way to fall and we might miss out on the real prize.
Stamina and patience. Strength ‘n honour and a’ that ????
@Valerie says: 1 May, 2015 at 10:04 pm:
“Not everyone is operating on razor sharp faculties either as Robert Peffers seems to think.”
Eh! Where the hell did I ever claim that?
I’ve spent a lifetime doing volunteer work, mainly with the old, disabled and sick. If anyone knows that there are vulnerable people out there I do. Thing is this, WoS is a forum for those, of a like mind, who are fighting against political parties and a political system that seems now designed to exploit the weakest and less able to defend themselves.
Look at the recent statistics. They state the richest have more than doubled their riches while the poor have become ever poorer. This while that political system was telling us we were all in this austerity together. That tells me the rich are getting richer by taking money from the poor.
So there is a great deal of difference from the commenters on here and the poor vulnerable people being conned on their doorsteps, on their phones and over the airwaves by the political machine of Westminster. We, on WoS, need to know the truth and how to impart that truth to ones less able to understand.
No one knows it all and we need to pool our knowledge and use each other’s expertise and knowledge to best effect. I want to learn from others and hope I can impart what I know in return. What’s more there’s little time left to get where we want to be.
I’m really miffed as I’m stuck at home just now incapacitated when I would rather be out there doing something more productive. It is most frustrating.
Rock yes there will always be an element of doubt when any unionist wins. Let’s pray we don’t have that to deal with!
Remember Ashcroft poll is showing the unionists ganging up together. Its not illegal but I think its morally bankrupt when you do that!
Dave McEwan Hill,
“Rock at 10.27
Have you been doing any canvassing or street work?”
Wasn’t canvassing and steet work predicting a Yes vote in September?
So we get the Osbourne “sermon on the pound” during indyref and now Miliband with “sermon on the (SN)Pout”
Both based on “it is ours to share and ours to take away if you don’t behave”
Imperial masters they are. Back of bus must we go.
Aye, right.
What was the massive door to door poll that had yes winning hands down? Was it not something like 80% out of almost 100,000 people? Yet we still lost.
@PictAtRandom
“They tell you, “So if the Northern Isles cannot get independence from Scotland just because they are now part of Scotland then Scotland cannot be independent because Scotland is now part of the UK”.””
Remember also the ‘Chairchoob’ advocated the idea that if Glasgow voted No then it could choose to stay with the UK.
What says he now that Glasgow voted Yes?
Chortle.
Also, it is a historical fact that the Northern native American territories of Quebec, almost entirely in favour of remaining in Canada, sought to have a situation where they could remain so if they voted for it. This was ruled out by the UN because, essentially, it is far too confusing for the electorate. Paradoxically, if that separate consideration had been considered, Quebec would have gained independence from Canada.
@vince 10.37 – I called the BBC to ask why they were not covering the story of Smurf trying to scare old people with a false story about £940
If anybody was trying to frighten old people anywhere else in the UK they would be running with it.
Who else should we call?
Joemcg,
“Rock-I agree. Take nothing for granted. What happens if there are only 20 odd SNP gains confounding months of polling? What can we do? FUCK ALL, that’s what.”
An STV poll suggests 57-59 seats for the SNP.
The Sun backs the SNP.
The next day, The Sun predicts 11 unionist MPs winning.
Murphy deficit reduced to 3 points.
Postal votes suggest anti SNP tactical voting.
Milliband warns Scots to vote Labour if they want a Labour government.
Surprise, surprise – Labour hangs on to 25+ seats.
What can we do? We grin and bear it.
If Muttley 79 was prepared to share with us some instance of the SNP “stretching the truth” in any significant way I might be prepared to consider his point
The fact is that Murphy’s leaflet is a deliberate and disgusting lie,designed to deceive the old and the vulnerable and he should be widely exposed as a liar and the completely dishonest person that he actually is.
Getting worried about all the references to the postal ballot. I hope we are not getting set up again to sanitise a result that is hard to explain
Jim Murphy is a Parasite and a LIAR.
If any Troll or other FU*KWIT from the Lieboar party is reading this , yes I am calling him a Lying PLAMPH.
Take me to court, I Fuc*ing dare you.
Tick Fuc*ing Tock.
The Labour party as popular as an eggy fart in a lift.
@Nana Smith says: 1 May, 2015 at 10:35 pm:
“John Jappy blogs
link to fullfiscalautonomy.blogspot.co.uk
Thank You Nana Smith. The great John Jappy. One of my great hero’s. I’ve learned a great deal from John. John tells it as it really is and has the knack of imparting his knowledge clearly.
Robert Peffers@ 10:52
Robert,we rely on you for keeping us clued up,good job 🙂
I sense your frustration on doing more,the YES campaign went well,the bookies always had the negatories as odds favourites and they are rarely wrong.
This time the SNP are odds on favourites for 40 plus seats,this keeps me going,keep up the good work,I know speak for loads of wingers you input is invaluable.
Slange
On a positive side Labour winning 11 seats
Scottish Labour/Labour MPs South in-fighting will be MEGA NASTY
with any deal SNP
win/win SNP both results
Dave McEwan Hill
Murphy’s leaflet is indeed a disgusting lie. It is made all the worse because in canvassing we have all no doubt met elderly people who are suffering the travails of Dementia and or Alzheimer’s.
The numbers that I have had to sit down with and be patient with as I tried to explain some of the nasty lies that others have indulged in that really scared these unfortunate souls just hardens me against the likes of Murphy.
It is not just Labour that is guilty of that though. It was a favourite tactic of the No campaign.
On the PV. I am really worried about that as the numbers of votes cast so far could make a real difference. The difference in PVs from 2010 in the Western Isles isn’t enough to unseat Angus McNeil but in other seats the numbers are more than enough to unseat other Scot Nats and or stop them winning seats. I pray that I am wrong but I am getting a very bad feeling in the pit of my stomach about this election.
The quirk with DimJim’s letter is that Labour signed up all the old folk for a postal and taught them to vote early. They have done, over half the Fife postals are already back.
The letter is too late, the postal pensioner bus has gone, Jim.
Joe I heard Mundell use the dreaded phrase silent majority on radio today. It does reek of another unionist conspiracy. If Labour retain more than 12 MPs then I will lose all trust in our electoral system.
Mundell also said he saw evidence of tactical voting in the postal votes? How the ferk would he know that and how would he know it was tactical. You have know way of knowing someone’s voting intention!
Miliband in Glasgow today repeats what he said on TV last night – “I am also clear there will be no deal, no pact, no coalition, no tie-in with the SNP.
I don’t say that for tactical reasons – I’m advocating this for principled reasons.
We cannot do a deal with a party that wants to break up the UK when we want to build it up.”
Yet we’ve had Andy Burnham, Caroline Flint and Hilary Benn saying that of course Labour would do a deal with the SNP. Either someone is being economic with the truth, or Ed is sailing off on his own while others have plans to take over. Perhaps the SNP will be dealing with an interim Labour leader.
Principled reasons sound good, but if Ed is stuck with a minority government then he needs to temper his principles with a dose of pragmatism to get any of his bills through parliament.
Ed has allowed himself to be pushed into a corner by Cameron and the right wing press, he now sounds as if he’s been programmed in that corner by Murphy and McTernan.
It is worth emphasising that even if Labour won all 59 Scottish seats, on the latest projections, they would still NOT have an outright majority.
They would have to rely on support from elsewhere.
Therefore Miliband’s contention that Labour could do so seems very unlikely.
So is he saying that any other support apart from the SNP is OK?
So, Miliband comes to Glasgow to talk to middle class English morons. Maybe we should send a contingent to London to talk to creepy Jim and the gang… Actually, that would make perfect sense.
You know, I’m aware of how stupid I might look being critical of the leadership and the strategy, but it seems to me that we are always responding to events and attacks rather than shaping them.
Wouldn’t it be an idea for the SNP to make something of the blatant anti-Scottish agenda of the mainstream parties and media? You could imply that without actually saying it, if accusations of rabble-rousing worried you, and we all know it’s true and real.
When they attack the SNP they are attacking Scottish people. It’s like a code word — we all know that.
Anyway, I think it would be healthier for us to put that out there and argue about that rather than discuss and debate possible deals with the scum/Labour Party/imperial pigs or whatever else they choose to throw at us.
I’m dreading the next 6 days and I think it’s going to get rough.
Reverend – you are good. You have an admirable work ethic.
@Robert Peffers
I’m glad you enjoyed reading John’s latest post. He is a great man.
There’s a vast amount of information on his site, well worth reading, especially the reports regarding the oil.
How strange to have the arch British Nationalist, Miliband campaigning against, “The Nationalist Party”. Are not the entire Establishment parties the, “Joint British Nationalist Parties”? While the N of SNP is the initial letter of, “National”?
What is more, while the SNP want only to have their own nation control its own affairs the Britnats are hell bent upon controlling all four United Kingdom’s Nations.
Here’s a cut & paste from a BBC History lesson – “The Nazis made sure that the German people supported them by using terror and inciting fear.”
Does that ring any bells?
I am getting a very bad feeling in the pit of my stomach about this election.
They were never going to go easy or fair and square. Next week, Scotland’s going to get vote SLabour ProjectFeared on a scale never seen before in any democracy anywhere, since last September. They do not want Scottish SNP MP’s in Westminster and if Scotland thinks that’s ok, they win.
Excuse the hyperbole and get out there!
Any less than 30/40 and we’ve been cheated again.
Then we are into a totally different territory, uncharted waters, and democracy has died (murdered).
I’ve campaigned for independence for 40 plus years and I’m not going back in the box.
Aceldo Atthis at 11.39
We are not “reacting” to events in this election. We are in fact dominating it and determining the direction of it.
We have them by the baws.
My worry is the PB
Handclapping-
When did the letters go out? It’s just that in the first sentence he refers to the election being a few weeks away.
I don’t think he would make that kind of mistake. Many pensioners choose to postal vote and he would have made damn sure he caught them in time.
The man is an utter slug!
Robert Peffers 11 48
If only the Brit Nats were content with controlling the UK nations.
Their ambitions for control go way beyond those horizons,as many a poor savage in far of lands has had the misfortune to experience.
O/T
link to commonspace.scot
link to osce.org
@ Robert Pelfet
“The Nazis made sure that the German people supported them by using terror and inciting fear.”
Not sure it’s fair to compare the Labour Party to the Nazis. For one thing, the Nazis created plenty of jobs and German living standards rose sharply under Hitler. Well, not for the Jews, obviously. But with Labour the economy always goes totally south — for us in Scdotland you could apply that quite literally.
Isn’t it amazing that the areas of Scotland that suffer the worst in terms of poverty and associated social problems are all longstanding Labour strongholds?
My modest contribution to the General Election:
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Well here we go into the last week, don’t be feart. Be happy 🙂
After last night’s wee howler Robert, I’d suggest Eds best plan for the next several days should be to secure himself in room as far away from the media glare as possible.
Preferably with supervision. 🙂
@ Dave McEwan Hill
Yeah? For the last week or more all we have heard is talk of second referendums and the Scottish tail wagging the English dog.
You can dominate a debate even when you’re on the defensive, of course. And who could argue that the SNP challenged the austerity doctrine, not to mention the trident renewal thing.
But by and large it just seems like we are responding to one attack after the other all the time. I’d prefer to see them go on the attack.
@Robert Peffers, I’m referring to the fact that you dissected and debunked the letter and not everyone will be able to do that. If all older people were capable of that then there wouldnt be any need for warnings about cold callers scamming. I’m just saying not everyone is as sharp as you are.
There are elderly, living along, some with health issues to worry about, disability etc., and this is the kind of shit dropping through the door?
MPs are bound by a Code of conduct which mentions integrity, but I’m sure like everything else at the Palace, its all window dressing for the plebs.
Just makes me sick that there is a man collecting a fortune of our taxes who thinks, yeah, lets frighten the pensioners, that will definitely get a few votes.
If this change in our political landscape does not herald a new era of honesty, and us holding scum like this to account at every turn, then we are wasting our time.
I want people in these positions that work hard, don’t lie, cheat, patronise and give respect to the electorate that put them there.
I honestly wasn’t having a go at you Robert, so I apologise if you think I was. There are a lot of VERY vulnerable elderly out there just hanging on, and I worry for them.
Remember the way you felt on the day after the Indy ref ?
That’s how you are going to feel after the results of the GE.
It’s a setup and the votes have already been cast.
Been out for a while just catching up
Seems some are getting a little short with each other tonight
because circumstances have turned unpleasant
Folks, lets try not to allow the Bastirts oxygen they’ll just love it
On this site we connect with many thousands who don’t post but come on to read lets keep their chins up
We all knew the Stunts would be coming, so here they are
is any of the shit the opposition pull going to change your minds, No, then we can still help those who just pop in for a read
There’s loads of funny folk on here
Lets rip the shit out of the Bastirts we’re good at that
A soggy Labour funeral. Footage from tonight’s Tollcross swimming pool event.
link to youtube.com
@pussy nancy
Fife started sending packs out on the 20th. I got mine on the 21st. They were hoping to get the last, including the people that applied on the 21st, the last day, out on the 28th.
Fife started the verification on the 28th.
Don’t be too sure that Labour can’t make mistakes. The wheels are coming off their bus. I’ve had stuff from Kenny Selbie saying Labour and Cooperative when he’s not and a letter which has “your candidate Mike Robb” in the blurb on the back and Robb is their candidate in Inverness!
deewal says:
2 May, 2015 at 12:27 am
Remember the way you felt on the day after the Indy ref ?
Has English control anywhere been easily shaken off deewal? No.
But they do go, in the end, with a nice marching band, a handshake, union jacks taken down, off they pop back to England, happy and glorious:D
I got Murphy ‘s letter this morning ( from Northumberlandshire ) and thought ” Here we go again ” .
It states that the SNP want to scrap the state pension .
I suggested on various FB pages that it be sent to the editor of the National but realise a lot of folk still, through habit , take the DR and other pro-union rags.
Is there any way this can be publicised so OAPs can be made aware this is lies . Apart from talking to them individually , what else can be done ?
@ Nana Smith 12:40 am Thanks for the link sure gave me a wee laugh. and all the other links you put up as they are really informative. Cheers
Sorry for going O/T here and apologies if this has been posted already.
Here is a report on how the Milliband speech to the highly vetted tea and coffe morning visitors in Glasgow went today.
link to youtube.com
Just remember this video was produced by the sameteam that produced this.
link to youtube.com
Jim Murphy’s letter is despicable. It’s easy to say the SNP should put out a flyer with a counter argument proving it isn’t true, but we all know a non politically aware punter in this situation will play safe and stick with the status quo.
I really don’t know how they sleep at night. I’ve always been cynical of politics and politicians but until getting properly informed over the past couple of years with the referendum and such I didn’t realise how totally corrupt our parliamentary system is.
I thought Yes Minister was a comic caricature of our parliamentary system, I now see it was actually an understatement of what actually happens.
@ Nana Smith Hope you don’t mind but I have put your link a soggy labour funeral over on off/topic. it deserves to be heard. Cheers
@ nana smith
Is that what happened? Is that what they are calling intimidation? It is about as intimidating as the demos at pacific quay.
Robert Peffers says:
1 May, 2015 at 9:38 pm
@icyspark says: 1 May, 2015 at 8:51 pm:
“Here is that fecking awful, disgusting letter that Jim Murphy is sending to scare pensioners.
Does anyone know if the SNP is sending personally addressed letters like this?
The pensions scare is nonsense, but its obviously a good way to get attention compared to generic pamphlets.
I hope the SNP is prepared to rebut this, and also the ‘only 24 hours to stop a second referendum’ final day message.
London Evening Standard
Reports Andy Burnam says Ed Miliband is basically talking mince and of course there will be dialogue with the SNP in the event of a hung Parliament
This was confirmed by Harriet Harmon and others in the Labour Party Ranks
It’s just that the Media have so far failed to report it
Looks like there’s trouble in Labours Back Shop
Or they’ve just found reverse gear
Actually, Dr Jim, it was prominently reported on R4 today, and they had an interview with Hilary Benn saying the same thing, basically. It seems Rev Stu was right and I was wrong: he clearly stated that vote by vote support was not the same thing as a deal.
Think Miliband refused the lifeline in Glasgow tonight, though.
Just read a bit of the replies – rock, all I can say is if this is gonna be a fix then am ready to revolt.
Is it just me or does anyone else have the feeling something underhanded is seriously going on behind the scenes?
@ Fiona
It’s semantics – if you’ve made a “deal”, you’ve agreed to do or not do certain things in advance, so you can’t then make decisions on a vote-by-vote basis as the votes come up without potentially breaking the deal.
Torygraph Ed Miliband in U-turn over ‘deal’ with SNP.
Isn’t it amazing that the areas of Scotland that suffer the worst in terms of poverty and associated social problems are all longstanding Labour strongholds?
Actually it is quite understandable that people voted Labour for years in the mistaken belief that they were a socialist party committed to an egalitarian ideal. I did the same myself. But the Labour of Keir Hardie is dead and buried. No amount of media hype can disguise that now.
Rev you really need to come up with something special to counter
the shortening gap between the SNP lead and Dim Murphy’s Labour
Party in East Renfrewshire.
The guy is a blatant sociopath and committed liar that we must ensure he does not win that seat.
His demise and the reintroduction of Alex Salmond to Westminster
are the jewels in the crown that we must grasp.
Can the collective WoS group come up with ideas of what can be done in a short space of time.
I thought the trucks with the billboard advertising had quite an
impact for the Tories at an SNP Conference in Glasgow.
Their picture had Alex and Ed a Laurel & Hardy and it became a great talking point and appeared in newspaper and TV clips.
How about a Blue Smuph with their little funny hats and of course
Ed could be a stunt double from a Wallace & Grommet movie.
We need to come up with a game changer.
I would require psychiatric help if that Creep was even voted in as a Milk Monitor. Come on Rev splash some cash on this one!
I hear the Duchess of Cambridge is in the early stages of Labour. I thought she would have preferred a Tory.
Cut and pasted from the web- BBC track all political party polls other than SNP and the raving loony party, but they are not biased, Just ask. lol
Election 2015 poll tracker – BBC News
link to bbc.co.uk
The poll tracker measures opinion poll support for the Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrats, Green Party and UKIP ahead of the 2015 general election. Compare the parties’ current ratings from a range of pollsters, and see how they have performed since 2010.
@Lesley-Anne 12.59
I love the start of the Imperial Masters video when the BBC reporter runs up passed the MPs and looks over his shoulder at the rickshaw. The look on his face is priceless.
It shows the BBC & some people in England had no idea what was happening during the referendum and they still don’t get it!!!!
Spoke to my brother last night, he voted NO last year. Going to vote SNP next week.
Effijy at 7.20
“We need to come up with a game changer.”
Whit???
The polls have us winning a substantial majority of Scottish seats (from a base of six) and WE need a game changer?
Thousands of people reading this,many of them SNP members, have done nothing to help in this campaign.I would urge you to do something.Even if it’s just a tiny thing like wearing a badge or putting up a sign or car sticker.Even just saying hello and shaking hands with an SNP activist at a street stall.It all makes a difference.It helps create a bit of atmosphere.
In the parlance of “Northern Soul”… Keep the faith.
No one but no one expected us to be in this position after September,however this is where we are.An increase in seats from 2010 and the SNP forcing the direction of travel towards independence and chaos amongst the establishment.
Contrary to the fundamentalists beliefs (I,ve always suspected something not quite right about Jim Sillars input into the referendum campaign). gradualism is the way to go.I say that as a middle aged SNP voter man and boy.No need for game changers or dramatic declaration’s. Steady as she goes.
Negotiate this election safely play a blinder at Westminster and the Nationalist fox will be multiplying all over England’s green and pleasant land.
Make no mistake about they are sh##ting themselves should 30 plus SNP MPs pitch up in Westminster.
OT: Anyone else hear Michael Heseltine on R4 this morning?
Slagging off labour (who, I recall, intend to invite him to work with them post election) and the SNP. He actually said that those parts of Scotland which voted yes are those which want to spend more public money. Such a subtle understanding of economics and of aspiration.
Yet labour will work with this austerity freak and not with SNP? Right
@ Mealer.
Yep, with you on that, everyone can do something, every small thing helps.
@Effijy
I am not sure why you are focusing in on Murphy`s seat to seemingly the exclusion of all the other seats, and characters like Margaret Curran, Douglas Alexander, Ian Davidson, Harris, Danny Alexander, Carmichael, Mundell etc. Renfrewshire East is only one seat out of 59 seats.
Kevin Evans @ 3.27
You’re not alone in thinking the establishment will come up with something to exclude Scots from decision making.
A grand coalition would be the end of democracy in the uk. Unlikely, but SNP involvement in WM may be seen as “exceptional circumstances”. That, or a tory government, would see legislation hurried through forbidding another referendum. No surprise if uk-wide postal vote went heavily in tories’ favour.
A grand coalition would be the end of democracy in the uk.
It occurs to me that it might be the start of democracy in the UK, rather. I realise that appears paradoxical, but it seems to me that there is only one party in the UK with any prospect of forming a government. That reality is masked by the the fact that party pretends to be two different entities: much as Labour and Scottish labour do, only bigger
A grand coalition would make this very starkly apparent all over the UK, and I think that it would swiftly lead to the rise of alternatives. This is already happening in Scotland, and I believe part of the success of the SNP is direct result of the realisation by many that there is no true choice at Westminster. Since it has been demonstrated, in Scotland, this need not be the case, it might happen faster in rUK if the people there truly grasped the problem: and with a grand coalition I think they might.
I really do not believe that the electorate will accept a narrative which claims that a grand coalition is necessary because of a constitutional or existential crisis imposed by scottish voters who are not behaving themselves. That would presumably be the justification proffered, but I do not think it will take
It is not a good outcome in the short run for Scotland: but I think it might just be beneficial in the medium term here, and in rUK
There’s an awful lot of doom and gloom scaremongering going on on this thread, and I can’t help wondering if some of these commenters are concern trolls.
Get a grip and stop fearmongering; we’ve got an election to win and you should be out there helping in any way you can, not trying to destroy our morale by forecasting disaster. One thing’s for sure; any success we have won’t be due to people like you.
Coming to this a bit late but SNP ER are doing our best.
Murphy was not ahead of the game because with his election leaflet, the pension scare had already been mentioned.
We have copies of the SNP Triple Lock pension statement, we have posted it to named folk, we have encouraged all relatives with older people to give them a copy and we have sent copies over the internet to people who are going to print it and give to older relatives.
There was always going to be a problem in ER with it’s large Tory vote and we were aware of some people telling us they would vote ‘to keep out the SNP’ but we have also had Con voters saying they want Murphy out.
The latter may change to SNP when they see the polls or may not.
When someone is prepared to lie and cheat, it was always going to be hard
Well said, liz. It is perfectly clear that everyone is working hard and it is equally clear that it was never going to be easy. Try to remember where we start from: 6 MP’s. We were never going to coast to a wipe out and the polls are freaking amazing: too good to really believe, though one can hope.
We should celebrate that. We should acknowledge that this team is working wonderfully well. We should realise that there are bound to be some disappointments, and we should stop with the cringe which says such disappointments are our fault.
@Natasha
Saw you on the “telly” last night, nice badges 🙂
Glad to see you have surfaced this morning, can’t have any slackers and there is a shitload of SNP leaflets left for you to push through letterboxes.
“They don’t like it up them” you know!
link to youtube.com
Deewal 12.27
Don’t suppose you could provide any proof of that? Oh no sorry I forgot the elite have supernatural powers (or so you seem to want people to believe) so they can fix general elections without absolutely anyone being able to prove it.
Gosh you know it’s almost as if you don’t want people to bother voting at all.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
2 May, 2015 at 8:19 am
Effijy at 7.20
“We need to come up with a game changer.”
Whit???
Dave! The Whit/ is Dim Jim looks like winning the East Renfrewshire Seat!
Whit can we do to lend some extra weight to
ensure he starts signing for his dole money rather than the tax payer’s expenses. If he is ahead we need to change it ASAP.
Re the forecast in the price of oil – has nobody noticed that a lot of the Middle East is in flames and that the largest oil producer Saudi Arabia seems to be having dynastic problems?