The keeping of record
Is what we’re all about. Here’s David Mundell speaking during a fascinating Scotland Bill debate in the House of Commons this evening:
We should probably fact-check that, shouldn’t we? That’s what we do.
Here’s how Channel 4 News reported that interview:
(Home Rule that ISN’T within the UK, of course, is called independence.)
And here’s what the New Statesman quoted Mr Brown as saying at the time:
(Our emphasis.) And federalism? Here’s the Scotsman on 15 August 2014:
And in the Herald two months earlier:
So that all seems pretty clear.
(Mundell, we should note, had preceded the claim with a long straw-man waffle about whether Brown offered Home Rule or federalism in his book or not. But nobody had mentioned the book. The issue in question isn’t the specifics of where Brown might have said it, but whether he said it, and he plainly did. Mundell has – what’s the phrase Scottish Secretaries use these days? – misstated his awareness of the truth.)
Mundell is a reptile of the State, pure and simple.
Dear oh dear, Fluffy, Murray and Carmichael.. a prile of pish
Mundell (I almost typed Muddle) is truly the Last Man Standing – a panicky General Custer at Little Big Horn.
Porkies again…..Can’t they just tell the truth sometimes…It would be so refreshing just to get an honest statement out of their mouths sometimes…
David ‘Official Biographer to anyone that can raise his profile’ Torrance writes
“Speaking at the Borders Book Festival on Saturday, Mr Brown alluded to a constitutional settlement that would come “as close to federalism as you can have in a nation where one part forms 85% of the population”.
To my mind this is needlessly reticent, for the Brown plan (outlined at the end of his book) is federal in all but name: “devolution all round” (in England); replacing the House of Lords with “a senate of the regions and nations”; and codifying “the new division of powers and the new power-sharing, tax-sharing rules in a written constitution”.
Vote NO for Federal Scotland and England in all but name.
Yours faithfully,
Gordo.
First promise from the Vow broken, Mundell fighting against any form of improvement for Scotland as is Murray!
Two Scottish MPs and a liar waiting for a court hearing constitute the Union in Scotland all backed up by hundreds of Westminster MPs fight to the death any idea that Scotland’s political mandate should be improved.
Liars, cheats and cowards one and all!
…the Internet is making it harder and harder to manipulate the information.
The days of controlled statements with little access to original data source are gone. Even when a false statement was uncovered in the past the finder had no way to share (other than a few hundred copies on a printing press).
Keep it up Rev – they appear oblivious to the changes in communication and will therefore maintain a steady supply of crap for you to highlight.
Mundel and crap appear to have a particular bond.
Mundell Carmichaelised the truth.
Peerless trolling from Mundell!
He can’t believe what he said, surely?
Mundell does say ‘uh’ an awful lot and comes across as a bumbling fool.No wonder hes not called asked along to news programmes much.
Did I just see on Parliament live,MPs voting against the Scottish Parliament being made permanant by the way?
Words fail me…..
Fluffy is a LIAR!
There is no more important word in the English language than the word LIAR … mainly cause it defines Fluffy to a “T”!
What exactly is the job of the Scottish Secretary?????
I thought he was the guy who was there to represent the people of Scotland at cabinet level.
Mudell is a lawyer,that’s why any powers offered have to be written down
Any new powers will be millimetre by millimetre
no joke
Debbiethebruce says:
Did I just see on Parliament live,MPs voting against the Scottish Parliament being made permanant by the way?
Words fail me…..
Wonder no longer Debbie WM did indeed vote against confirming Holyrood is a permanent institution.
You just got to love those unionist politicians. They are doing more and more each and every day to ensure Scotland becomes an independent country most definitely sooner rather than later!
Is it not the case that “misleading parliament” even during at committee stage is still an offence to parliament and the sensibility’s of the electorate. In that event when can we the electorate expect “Fluffy” to apply for the “Chiltern Hundreds”.
I have always said that the Tory party would eventually surrender sovereignty to Scotland, but I expected it after the oil ran out, not just yet but their collective incompetence astounds me.
Wulls: I thought he was the guy who was there to represent the people of Scotland at cabinet level.
It was a Secretary of State John Stair who endorsed the command to ‘extirpate’ that ‘rebellious sept’ in Glencoe.
Down the ages almost all secretaries have dirty hands washed in a bowl before the multitude.
David says:
“Mundell Carmichaelised the truth.”
V good.
OED. Carmichaelised-adj. To lie in the most bare faced manner, without any visible signs of shame.
Wulls says:
What exactly is the job of the Scottish Secretary?????
I thought he was the guy who was there to represent the people of Scotland at cabinet level.
The definition of the Scottish Secretary of State is:
1) to answer telephone calls as and when received. Expected to be no more than 10 telephone calls per week.
2) to answer letters delivered to Scottish Office. Expected to be no more than 10 letters per week.
3) to answer e-mails deliveredc to Scottsh Office. Expected to be no more than 10 e-mails per week.
4) when not carrying out the duties listed above then the Secretary of State for Scotland will be expected to carry out in depth inspections of pot holes in roads across Scotland. Expected to be no more than 10 pot holes per week.
I hope this eases your concerns about the Secretary of State for Scotland Wulls.
I’ve been watching and recording the whole thing and I can’t make up my mind who’s more Tory Ian Murray or Mundell
A more Nasty (did I spell that right) little squint of a man I don’t think I’ve seen than Murray
Do you get born that way, how do you develop such unpleasant characteristics
His attitude has and will condemn every Labour rotten one of them to oblivion come the Holyrood election and beyond
Matheson, your mate just sunk your hopes even further down the toilet
we need to go for independence sooner than later because you cant hold the upper hand all the time..
remember when we thought we had it until the vow things change quickly especially in politics
an attack on the uk for example (god forbid if it would happen) would change things overnight re trident
Mundell is the personification of creepy, sycophantic Scottish unionism. A pathetic wee person. Cameron and his Eton chums are sniggering behind Mundell’s back.
also if we did go for it no pussying around this time we were far to soft last time
This time anything goes ie if the bbc give us bad press in interviews call them out about covering up paedophiles
If the unionists lie all we have to do is lie back twice as hard
Weaseling liar, no great surprise.
Wulls says:
8:17 pm
“What exactly is the job of the Scottish Secretary?????”
Telling fibs, for personal gain. Apparently.
There is an Italian expression promessa di marinaio. Which translates as a sailor’s promise. This denotes a promise with no real commitment. The meaning coming from how a sailor can travel round the world from port to port and can avoid having to make good the promise.
Clearly Brown, Cameron, Mundell and Co think they have some kind of similar immunity from making good on promises to the Scottish people.
Has Mundell been sent a copy of your piece Rev? I think he would appreciate your diligence and help in reminding him what Brown actually offered the sovereign people of Scotland.
link to news.sky.com
We’re Nazi Scotland now too, or what mythic Gordon Brown didn’t mean federalism or home rule Scotland which wouldnt be Nazi, if we voted NO. Confused? Its ok though, you can call Scottish people nazi’s because you are a Nazi if you’re a Scot that voted SNP but not a Nazi if you didn’t.
Oh well, last week Lucy Fraser tory girl for Cambridge said we are just Scottish slaves to be deported to their colonies, like what Oliver Cromwell did.
Next week? Zombie Scottish Nazi’s invade Poland.
The VOW well truly crapped on from a great height by unionist MPs tonight. The VOW has become one gigantic steaming unionist turd. It should collected up and deposited on the doorstep of the Daily Record.
Slightly O/T re Murphy – Scots are now insurgents according to Murphy nice choice of word when he could have said it was a resurgent SNP. Given that every time we hear the word insurgent in the news it usually refers to terrorists Murphy is deliberately planting the seed
Caledonia at 8.41 is right and there is an appetite growing for another referendum and independence which is palpable
Mundell alias Uriah Heep, exhibits all the traits given by Dickens to that character.
I rarely pre judge individuals ,but in this case I make an exception.Littlt shit that he is.
The Civil Service has just sent a stern memo to lay off Mundell because clearly it was just a case of something he lied about being lost in translation.
And the BBCs Jackie ‘Devomax’ Bird with Darling.
link to youtube.com
Moondial is not only wired to the moon, he’s now a proven liar.
Those NO voters who were willing to give the Unionists one final chance because of the VOW must be feeling betrayed.
The circumstances unfolding tonight are building the case for SNP to include the final Indyref in their 2016 manifesto.
So the big day rolls around and Westminster still thinks that it’s got the right to hang it hat wherever it likes and steal from the people of Scotland.
The vow had the words in it to make sure that the Scottish Parliament was a permanent institution first off. I honestly think they would love to close it down just to stop it getting in the way of their fat paychecks and lovely lifestyle. My advice .. try it.
I wasn’t for another referendum thinking that it might all be too soon after such a large campaign but I see it being very different tonight. We need to keep pushing the agenda or they will feel it’s easy to keep selling us a pup.
This is either tactical genius by the SNP who could be evidencing this all before you and presenting it before calling for the vote of the people or sheer arrogance by the Tories thinking that they can get away with anything. We’ll have to see how this pans out.
December 11-2007: A leopard doesn’t change it’s spots – English Nationalism is the real agenda
But Cameron’s own party soon blew apart his claim that he would stop narrow English nationalism. Senior Tories insisted they had not dropped plans for “English votes for English MPs”.
The Tories’ desire to exclude Scottish MPs from these votes has fuelled English nationalism and is a threat to the future of the UK.
Labour have warned the policy would turn Scots MPs into second-class citizens at Westminster.
On a visit to Edinburgh, Cameron – who likes people to “Call me Dave” – claimed that some in England were using the success of the SNP to create discontent within the Union.
He said: “There are those in England who want the SNP to succeed, who want the Union to fail. “They seek to use grievances to foster a narrow English nationalism. I have a message for them – I will never let you succeed.”
But the tough talking was blown out of the water less than an hour later when shadow Scots secretary Mundell said on radio they were not dropping the policy of English votes for English MPs.
He said “We are not moving away from that. What we are saying is that there is an English question and really the unfinished business of devolution is what to do about England.”
The muddle was attacked by Lib Dem Scotland spokesman Alistair Carmichael. He said: “The Tories have spent several months pursuing narrow nationalistic ends.
There is no clearer example of short-term political posturing than their pet policy of English votes for English issues. “Such constitutional illiteracy plays into nationalistic hands on both sides of the Border.”
Labour justice secretary Jack Straw said “David Cameron may claim to support the Union but his policies would destroy it. Cameron’s plan for English votes for English laws is dangerous and unworkable. Malcolm Rifkind has called it a constitutional abortion, while the Conservative peer Lord Trimble says it would threaten the sovereignty of the UK Parliament. Far from strengthening the union, Cameron’s plan would weaken it, creating two classes of MPs and inevitably leading to the break-up of the United Kingdom.”
SNP deputy leader Nicola Sturgeon claimed that talk of changing the Barnett formula was Tory-speak for cutting spending in Scotland. She said: “The Tories are facing both ways on Scotland. Just last week, the Tories north of the Border signed up to a commission to boost the financial powers of the parliament which would make us wealthier. But the Tory drive at Westminster is about appealing to a south of England agenda.”
link to thefreelibrary.com..+TORIES+You%27re+a+chump.-a0172279890
Fluffy Mundell.
The Tick of the government.
A nasty blood sucking parasite, that’s a pain in the arse to get rid of.
Imagine being a Unionist from Scotland when all you have representing you at Warminster is Davina Moondial, Sally Carbuncle and Wee Billy Chunter. The end is nigh right enough.
Thank feck for the SNP.
Shock – Secretary of State for Scotland is a liar. Again!
And it is even a different one.
Looks like it must be a requirement for the job.
But it is ok – he is defending the Union.
No doubt every media outlet that knows the truth will correct Mr Mundells error, no I wont hold my breath either!
Insidious traps woven into every WM government amendment even trying to get rid of the Human Rights Act. Our team must be, and are, on guard. Imagine our 56 not being there.
Dreadful place Westminster! We must escape by any means.
Carmichael looks wabbit, maybe something on his mind. Sitting among the SNP group earlier.
Oh dear, both the Vow and Brown’s guarantees a busted flush.
Who knew?
Still, I’m sure the meeja will hold fluffy to account…
I’m just so sick of being lied to by unionists. They are a part of something so putrid, so rotten it turns my stomach even to see their bloody flag now…I don’t think I have ever felt such contempt in my whole life than I do now for them and their lousy state. I used to try and see both sides of the argument but no longer…I’m just so sick of being lied to.
‘Protective enactments’ prohibit Scottish Governments altering WM legislation, for example the Human Rights.
The pen is mightier than the sword right enough…The Scottish people not watching this are in for a big shock soon.
The ones who are watching democracy at work must be alarmed.
Referendum 2 where are you.
Already getting geared up for the Independence Referendum in 2019.
Bring it on.
All we need to do is convince 1 in 20 voters +1
Mundell is not only dishonest but he is also an incompetently so.
Browns words were all over the place at the time of utterance back in August 14. Where was Mundell? Mars?
link to parliament.uk
This amendment is to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can only be abolished with the consent of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people after a referendum.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The Committee divided: Ayes 271, Noes 302.
Sadly it is not illegal to lie in Parliament. It should be of course – but it isn’t.
Nonetheless Rev. would it be worth a wee punt to the standards commissioner about what Mundell did today backed up by all the evidence you have presented?
It would be great just to see the publicity of another Scottish anti-Scottish MP being pulled up for being deliberately economic with the truth.
Two down and one to go?
I VOW to thee my country.
I hope all those that switched from a reluctant yes to a reluctant no can sleep at night?
Gordon Brown, you are a fetid turd, goodbye.
Stephen.
You just have to laugh at Westminster. I’m watching this circus comedy show, bring on the clowns, don’t bother they’re here. Compare that circus to Holyrood. In Holyrood the Presiding Officer calls for the proposer of a Bill to read it out. They stand up and their microphone is turned on and everyone hears what the say clearly. They take interventions and again the interrupter can be clearly heard. After all speakers are heard the Presiding Officer tells them to vote and they press a button and the correct result is instantly shown.
Look at the long out of date shambles that is the Westminster system and all the trooping out in and out of the chamber and the locking of doors and humans (mis)counting votes. Not to mention the fancy dressed officials.
God we need out of that madhouse.
Water under the bridge now but if it wasn’t for the Greens ego-trip we might not be listening to this shite from Mundell today.
Well done Ian Murray you last Dodo, you’ve just killed yourself off tonight.
#Scotlandbill
Tick tock.
IvMoz at 9.51
Why 2019? What is wrong with 2017? The longer we give our enemies to attack us the sillier we are.
The last thing any of us need is another 2 year referendum campaign.
Just in case anyone is in any doubt. We are in a state of war.
The establishment media undermine & propagandise at every opportunity, lining up compliant ‘experts’ to demonise the Scottish Government. They focus on the unattainable FFA in order to deflect the debate.
The Tories & Labour effectively put us in a position where they can close down our parliament at any time of their choosing.
Expect a significant false flag op some time soon.
The only thing in our favour is their incompetence.
“misstated his awareness of the truth”
Naw, I reckon he has done a Carmichael. His statements fit his/government agenda whether or not they are true.
@Dave McEwan Hill
Without being offensive to anyone, but conscious of the voter demographic of the 2014 referendum & who voted for what , I feel it would be better to hold another referendum later on in the Parliament.
More 16/17 year old voters.
+ Winters are coming. Perhaps harsh winters.
I thought lying to Parliament was near enough a hanging crime …
Gordon Brown is history and I don’t see Labour offering federalism (if it mattered whether they did or not). Mundell can say what he wants, it makes no electoral difference, he knows the three seats will be gone soon enough. As Robert Peffers said in so many words – madhouse
IvMoz at 11.30
Nope. The sooner the better. The art in politics is seizing the moment. History is littered with failures who waited too long for the right moment. We nearly won in September. We are in a better position now. I would have referendum tomorrow if that was possible – and every year if need be.
We only have to win once -then it’s up to unionists to demand referendums to reverse the result (which would never happen)
Over the years BBC Scotland have subjected us to plenty whoppers but they excelled themselves on tonight’s Sarah Smith Extravaganza.
She was interviewing John Swinney when she came out with a statement to the effect that ‘when it comes to oil prices The OBR are right more often than the Oil Industry’ – I just about fell off my chair.
….. I’ll offer you this advise Mr Mundell, frae auld Scots “ye fly wi’ the craw’s, ye git shot wi’ the craw’s”.
You chose the craw’s Mundell, the guid folk of your constituency will not forgive or forget your treachery.
Cheers ‘defo’! Here`s another one:
Out shopping, my wife asked me “Does my bum look big in this?”
I told a little white Carmichael and said “No dear, you look great”
It’s going to be great when the anti-Carmichael protesters, who are his own constituents LOL, have their day in court.
Carmichael can lie at Westminster, he can lie in the media, but he’d better not lie in court, in front of a judge!
No Caledonia, we don’t lie twice as hard. That makes us as scummy as them.
We truth. We truth them just as hard as we can with their own words, with their own figures, with hard facts. We won’t be allowed to truth in almost all of the media so we truth them on billboards, in adverts, in flyposts, on lamp-posts, on-line, in person, at public meetings, in flyers, in demonstrations. Nothing off-limits, no being nice or understanding about anything. We truth them till their eyes water – it’s already started with places like WoS.
@ ME
before I (ahem) do a wee reprise on last nights late shift,
I going fur tae sing youse a wee song
link to tinyurl.com
thanks to Capella, DerekM and No no no Yes,
I feel pretty.
Who said “burn in hell dipshit”?
Bookie from hell @8.25pm
“Any new powers will be millimetre by millimetre
no joke”
We’re gonnie need a bigger ruler
A MUCH BIGGER RULER!
_______________________________________________________________
Dan Huil @8.43
“Mundell is the personification of creepy, sycophantic Scottish unionism. A pathetic wee person. Cameron and his Eton chums are sniggering behind Mundell’s back.”
I see Mundell I think
link to tinyurl.com
______________________________________________________________
Petra @ 9.06
“And the BBCs Jackie ‘Devomax’ Bird with Darling.”
Ohhhh where’s Chris Cairns when you need him
Jackie the devomax burd!
that’s just crying out for someone to do a big burd type cartoon
link to tinyurl.com
If I close my eyes and wish really really hard!
________________________________________________________
No no no Yes@9.37
“The circumstances unfolding tonight are building the case for SNP to include the final Indyref in their 2016 manifesto.”
Its like death by a thousand (self inflicted )cuts.
_____________________________________________________________
Macca @9.12
“The vow had the words in it to make sure that the Scottish Parliament was a permanent institution first off. I honestly think they would love to close it down just to stop it getting in the way of their fat paychecks and lovely lifestyle. My advice .. try it.”
I dont want to be a wet blanket Macca but my cynicism gland tells me that if they closed the Scottish parliament tomorrow there would be a month tops of complaints to the editor then the craven population of Scotland would roll over and die for them,
I’m sorry to say it but I lost any faith in my countrymen last September.
Thats why I dont (cant) take any of this seriously anymore laughter is all I have left
my heart broke last year.
_______________________________________________________________
Stoker says @9.25
“Imagine being a Unionist from Scotland when all you have representing you at Warminster is Davina Moondial, Sally Carbuncle and Wee Billy Chunter. The end is nigh right enough.”
Billy Chunter?
bwahahahahahahaha.
_________________________________________________________
Handandshrimp @10.03pm
“Mundell is not only dishonest but he is also an incompetently so.
Browns words were all over the place at the time of utterance back in August 14. Where was Mundell? Mars?”
Im still struggling to understand why what Brown said means anything at all?
He was a back bencher who had zero influence and nothing he said made one bit of difference,
If Fluffy had the courage to say what he really meant he would have said something like
“Yes I know Gordon Brown promised the nearest thing to federalism within the UK but he didn’t have the authority to make such promises,
not being part of the government an all”!
______________________________________________________________
A Mylchreest @ 12.07am
“I thought lying to Parliament was near enough a hanging crime”
Meh
only if your from the SNP
anyone else eh not so much!
__________________________________________________________
Gus1940 @1.31am
“She was interviewing John Swinney when she came out with a statement to the effect that ‘when it comes to oil prices The OBR are right more often than the Oil Industry’ – I just about fell off my chair.”
Well Gus when you think about it she’s right because if the oil industry predict a price of $130 a barrel and it tops out at $129 and the OBR predict $55.00 dollars then they are within the prediction whereas the oil industry are not. see?
__________________________________________________________
David says @ 3.25
“Out shopping, my wife asked me “Does my bum look big in this?”
I told a little white Carmichael and said “No dear, you look great”
My wife was in a shop when she said that to the assistant
he replied sorry madam but its the biggest changing room we’ve got. :0
I’ll eh get my running shoes on.
It is pretty plain the Vow is going nowhere and Wings reader are only too aware of this and thoroughly frustrated/angered. What I would like to see is some serious research on what impact this is having on those who voted No. Speculation is great but hard evidence is much better and this is where the crucial Indy Ref change has got to come from.
Any chance of a large scale, ongoing, survey, Rev?
Advert for Secretary of State for Scotland 2015-2020.
Wanted, Furtive sleekit wee man who will not make eye contact with his fellow Scot. Must be educated but not too clever, one or more of the following traits a must. Servile, ingratiating, unctuous, sycophantic, fawning, toadying, oily, oleaginous, greasy, grovelling, cringing, toadyish, sycophantish, subservient, submissive, slavish, abject.
Ah Giddy we have been sent a gift from heaven in this Mundell fellow, sign him up.
David “I have no Willy” Mundell strikes again!
The book Mundell was quoting from was published on 16th June – 3 months before we had all the Westminster panic and promises of federalism/home rule/the ‘Vow’.
Was he therefore ‘misleading Parliament’ yesterday ? Yes he was, and I hope our MP’s do the right thing, challenge him using a ‘point of order’intervention asap – and have him brought before the House to explain himself !
ALL INWOULD SAY IS LETS GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THEM.
IF WE ARE SUCH A DRAG ON THEIR WEALTH WHY ARE THEY GRASPING ONTO US ,!!!
There is the big LIE, I CANNOT BE ALL DOWN THEM BEING SEEN TO BE SMALLER DUE TO LOSING SCOTLAND EH EH
Remember Kaye Adams did it as well.
Looking at this creature, one has to wonder how a human descends into this grotesque form.
I mean what kid growing up would ever inspire to look, sound or behave like this individual.
Yet, this creature and his swarm are who preside over our nation – hardly representative on any level.