Owen Jones in the Guardian, 7 September 2014:
“New Labour’s surrender to the underlying assumptions of the Thatcherite crusade gave the independence movement its greatest opportunity. Yes, the Blairites could not entirely purge Labour’s traditions, and so the minimum wage was introduced (albeit at too low a level), poverty was reduced and public services were invested in.
Yet they illegally invaded Iraq with Conservative support, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians and 179 British military personnel before handing much of the country over to fanatics. They punished aspiration by introducing tuition fees, saddled public services with long-term debt through the colossal rip-off of PFI, and began privatising our NHS – laying the foundations for some of the pernicious policies of this coalition as they did so.
They allowed the living standards of millions of working people to begin falling years before the crash, even as the coffers of corporate Britain prospered like never before. They failed to solve an ever-worsening housing crisis, leaving 5 million languishing on council housing waiting lists. They cut taxes on corporate Britain while indulging in entirely destructive gimmicks such as scrapping the 10p tax rate.
Many Scots look at the Britain built by this political elite, they don’t like it and they want out.”
Seems to pretty much cover it.
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But Owen they tell us we are Better Together
Crumbs!
Nail hit firmly on head
The problem with the No campaign’s branding of “UK-OK” is that most NO voters don’t actually think it is, according to many postings I see from Unionist posters.
Therefore the NO campaign’s own brand makes people think: “Is the UK OK, is it really?”.
Can’t wait for Gordon Brown, along with Lords Prescott and Reid to wade into us all this week. EVEN with BBC SCOTLAND in full propoganda mode, it will only add more votes to the YES bundle.
He looks too young to be the Leader of the Labour Party in Wales
It’s quite refreshing to get commentary in the MSM that finally cuts to the bone. People in England are getting angry now, heads are coming out of the sand and questioning, not Alex Salmond and the YES movement, but the Westminster elite that have run this country into the ground over the past 15 years and will continue to do so for the next 50.
@Dcanmore
I think they might also start questioning the media that never warned them, that misled them, that always dismissed the chances of Independence, and prattled on about how bad it would be for Scotland anyway, with no word or reasonable discussion about what it might mean for the rest of the UK.
Heads will roll – hopefully at our favourite auntie’s house
Dcanmore says:
7 September, 2014 at 11:25 pm
It’s quite refreshing to get commentary in the MSM that finally cuts to the bone. People in England are getting angry now, heads are coming out of the sand and questioning, not Alex Salmond and the YES movement, but the Westminster elite that have run this country into the ground over the past 15 years and will continue to do so for the next 50.
===================================
Their answer to get rid of the WM elite (because who else have the to vote for) is to vote UKIP
The penny drops
Following up my own email, I’d like to see all Peston’s analyses of Scotland and our doom and disaster with Independence, printed out on 100 gsm paper, and a whole program devoted on filming him trying to eat his words.
He can do it for charity.
Posting, not email! Duh
Dcanmore says:
the Westminster elite that have run this country into the ground over the past 15 years and will continue to do so for the next 50.
They have been ruining this country for decades longer than 15 years.
The disillusion of the British Establishment, not just Westminster but the whole matrix of officialdom and authority from where power is exercised, can not be attributed to the belated assertiveness of the Scots.
Disintegration issued from the corruption of Westminster itself.
For too long it presented itself as a shiny apple, but it was rotten at the core.
>>Many Scots look at the Britain built by this political elite, they >>don’t like it and they want out.”
>Seems to pretty much cover it.
Not quite. We’d really like to see the whole rotten system undermined…
From to-day’s newspapers.
Treasury to clash with EU in court on Monday over rules limiting bankers bonuses in attempt to defend UK financial sector
Westminster MPs to get 11% pay rise.
Miliband says there will be border guards under Labour.
Labour going to allow us to control 30% of Scotland’s revenues (wow).
The London parties have completely lost the plot and are out of touch with the real world in Scotland.
Irvine Welsh puts it so well…
link to standard.co.uk
Yet he still manages to miss the point ” It is a defiant protest at… ”
This is no protest and It will not be dismissed as one, this is a solid movement for political progress and positive change.
David Haines – The Scottish Aid Worker Held Captive in Syria- The Sunday Post and some other papers are giving major space to the view of Professor Glees that it is a plot to discredit David Cameron in the eyes of the Scottish electorate. But all is not as it seems to be. See my report
link to caltonjock.com
Owen a week ago on 2014 you supported a NO vote. Your article would make me vote YES (even more YES OK).
The Labour Party you describe so vividly is an insult to the founders.
Come and join us. I think you will like OUR Scotland.
Now this is where it becomes REALLY interesting, because there is now a real sense that England (having been lulled by BBC for 18 months)is waking up (late) to the enormity of what is happening.
And they’ll want a part of it.
So, we need to tread mightily careful, people. We require there to be a functioning rUK with whom to negotiate our independence.
Our message to our English friends should be ‘wait. We’ll help you out once things are sorted up here, but please keep the heid meanwhile’
common sense prevails.
no longer slaves to capitalism, but servants of socialism.
tommy and owen.
link to youtube.com
Labour going to allow us to control 30% of Scotland’s revenues
Ehhh, we currently control about 45%!
I’m confused, I spent today taking Slovenian visitors around Perthshire so I’m just catching up on my ref stuff.
Watched Carmichael on BBC iplayer from this morning stating there was an announcement to be made “in a couple of days”. He told Brewer that he would not steal the Chancellor’s thunder by giving any details before the announcement. But then I read this..
link to 78.110.165.228
It’s seems Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats have met to discuss the agreement to be announced, but managed in those talks to not talk to each other.
The more I think about it the more confused I get. For it to make sense, Carmichael would have to be telling lies this morning… but he’s the Secretary of State for Scotland.
I await the reasoned voice of Jim Murphy to explain this whole mess
@Boris
If I were the Scottish govt, I’d give top priority to having a hostage negotiating team in place. Hostage-taking is going to continue; and indy Scotland has no particular axe to grind with anyone.
Hostage negotiation is a skilled and massively painful job for anyone involved – because you don’t always win. But it’s a service we might be very well-placed to provide, precisely because we don’t come with additional baggage. And in terms of international reputation – few things come higher.
It’s almost as if they’ve just realised that historians still exist.
They also introduced the Bedroom Tax and Workfare.
Maybe he has seen the light after all.
@Sinky
The London parties have completely lost the plot and are out of touch with the real world.
Fixed it for you
THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS: you can be screwed by the TOLLIES or LABOUR it’s your choice.
Or of course we can vote YES and leave them to screw each other. And we will build the country and society we want.
Seatbelts on its gonna get rough , AS if offered a CU should take care, a rUK pound may not be the best currency to link to. The markets have already started in far east and its not looking good .Bile and hate about to be thrown at yes camp, keep calm and smile , independence is nearer.
They’re in bed with Tory boys like Ian Taylor of Vitol and their MP’s think they can say out loud they will bayonet any Yes vote survivors. End of the line chaps, times are a changin.
link to nationalcollective.com
It’s not just Scots that have had enough of the rotten Westminster system – it’s plenty of folks all across Britain.
Luckily, we have the chance to do something about it.
Some Labour members have a desperate argument about staying in a broken, unequal union to show solidarity with others.
We can do something better. Lead by example, and demonstrate that a better way is possible.
A sovereign, democratic Scotland would likely result in a better Britain.
But if England chooses to keep things as they are, and embrace a Thatcherite, reactionary and militaristic path, then that is their choice ..
At least we will be free of it.
Donald Urquhart
best of luck with that mission.
Does Owen Jones support imperialism and shun foreigners? Prat.
As I was saying to some-one BTL on the Guardian site: For us old, long term independence campaigners Scotland’s referendum is most definitely not about political parties.
It’s about who’s capable of governing Scotland best. We are sick of the arrogance, the sneering, the misrule, the incompetence and the corruption of successive Westminster governments. We want something better.
P.S. Does Owen Jones realise he is campaigning for the privatisation of the Scottish NHS.
@ Owen Jones
Fuck off and eat your cereal. Stooge.
kininvie says 11.49 “So, we need to tread mightily careful, people. We require there to be a functioning rUK with whom to negotiate our independence”
Currently, Sterling is taking a hit in the early financial markets in Australia and New Zealand and being attributed to the Indy poll result in today’s papers. link to forexlive.com
I suspect any further falls will be blamed by Westminster on Scotland and used to frighten voters over the next ten days. They will argue that a big fall in Sterling against the US$ will cause a big hike in prices for imports including road fuel etc and try to persuade voters that this is a foretaste of things to come in an independent Scotland. Keep your nerve folks.
Mr Salmond will be having a peaceful nights rest in Stricken, while Westminster get it’s collective knickers twisted.
Folk may not like him,but must respect his tactics and perfect strategy to stymie these pygmies doon that Westminster
As a Canadian and a Quebecker I must caution Scottish voters on the dangers of relying on last minute promises of the NO side. In our 1980 referendum on Quebec independence the then PM of Canada made a last-minute promise to address the grievances of Quebeckers. No sooner had the NO side won, that the PM carried out HIS constitutional reforms WITHOUT the consent of Quebec, reforms which limited (rather than expanding) the powers of the Quebec parliament.
Can you see where this is heading if Scottish voters vote NO in reliance upon last minute UK government promises which are not on the ballot.
Marc Ryan,
IndepenentInvestor.info
MPs to get 10% pay increase.
Osbourne to support bankers bonus’s.
A rally demonstrating against the government health reforms held, ending a month-long march that began in Jarrow.
David Cameron And David Cameron get together to save the Union.
Better together, my erse.
Re last post, oops, I meant Gordon Brown and David Cameron.
Just watched Sky Paper review. Oh dear, couldn’t they for once try and balance the discussion with someone who knows what they are talking about.
@ Ianbeag
The £ is taking a hit because of the Westminster’s refusal to countenance a currency union with Scotland.
When they come clean that it was all just a bluff the markets will calm down.
It’s hard to understand the unionists shock, especially when you look at today’s news and see a call for Nigel Farage MEP to be made Deputy Prime Minister:
link to breitbart.com
or MPs wages of £67000 (plus expenses) described as “miserly”:
link to independent.co.uk
or the objection to the EU’s plans to cap bankers’ bonuses:
link to bbc.co.uk
Are they really so pleased with themselves that they cannot fathom why we want out?
Given that the keiched breecks brigade, a.k.a. No
Thanks/No Surrender/Bitter Together are noo tryin tae wheel out Her Maj, please let her ken she’ll still be Queen o us yins.she’ll still be able take take a hurl up here the say “Me an mah man is here fur the open yet brig!
She’ll still be able take hikng oot the windae o her big motor an sing ” Wun is a Billy no a Tim!” Mind you, gin yin o Wun’s descendants had the bad taste the shack up we a Fenian gin Sun’s Scottish government abolish the obscenity o the Proddy Succession, then Win will
Given that the keiched breecks brigade, a.k.a. No
Thanks/No Surrender/Bitter Together are noo tryin tae wheel out Her Maj, please let her ken she’ll still be Queen o us yins.she’ll still be able take take a hurl up here the say “Me an mah man is here fur the open yet brig!
She’ll still be able take hikng oot the windae o her big motor an sing ” Wun is a Billy no a Tim!” Mind you, gin yin o Wun’s descendants had the bad taste the shack up we a Fenian gin Sun’s Scottish government abolish the obscenity o the Proddy Succession, then Wun will
Given that the keiched breecks brigade, a.k.a. No
Thanks/No Surrender/Bitter Together are noo tryin tae wheel out Her Maj, please let her ken she’ll still be Queen o us yins.she’ll still be able take take a hurl up here the say “Me an mah man is here fur the open yet brig!
She’ll still be able take hing oot the windae o her big motor an sing ” Wun is a Billy no a Tim!” Mind you, gin yin o Wun’s descendants hae the bad taste tae shack up we a Fenian gin Wun’s Scottish government abolish the obscenity o the Proddy Succession, then Wun will birl in Wun’s grave an sing, “Wun hapdens tae be a B illy no a Tim
@ Wee Alex
Was just about to say ‘ oh Naw, there’s two of them!
@ Boris 11.48
Couldn’t believe Sunday Post ran an article linking ISIS execution with referendum (see Croompenstein 9.56, link in previous thread). But your link about Glees explains how this non-story is being fabricated. Is this what we can expect over the next ten days. These are very sick people. I’ll never see Oor Wullie in the same light. Jings!
I feel in recognition of their services to Scottish Sovereignty visitors to Scotland should be greeted at the border by a statue of two former Prime Minister’s holding hands. The nameplates to read.
Margaret Thatcher The unifier of the Scot’s
Tony Blair The devolver of the Scot’s
Might counterbalance Edward the first The hammer of the Scot’s
@FergusMac
Is it possible you were sidetracked on the way to a sellic fitba forum? Down the hall, first on the left…
Actually if we do win this, this website needs to continue. Like a Guardian of Scotland.
We need to build mechanisms into our new constitution to prevent a political class emerging which cynically usurps power. There should be term limits on politicians for instance. No-one should be able to sit in Holyrood for 40 years. It would be a good idea if it was impossible for a politician’s children to stand for elected office.
If this campaign is won it will have been thanks to an upwards grassroots campaigning, not a top down directed one. That will be a great thing, but You cannot just fade away afterwards and let the Westminster elite be replaced by another out of touch Scottish elite.
Its because they get away with ignoring us that they do it.
At last, somebody in the MSM who gets it.
Even Cameron called it Broken Britain.
We need more transparency and accountability in the structures of power. This will not happen by passively putting your X against a political party every few years. We are in fact run by managers who are unaccountable to no-one. These need to be elected positions not appointments. The head of the BBC in Scotland needs to be an elected position. The head of planning in unitary authorities needs to be an elected position. Only by becoming more active and engaged citizens who constantly ask why outcomes that we want are not being achieved can we become a more democratic society.
As for the fall in the £, this is directly attributed to the scare-mongering in the British press. They have only themselves to blame, not us. All we are asking for is democracy and are going about it in a peaceful constitutional way.
And yet Owen goes on TV and argues against independence and for Scots to continue to bash their heads against the wall by voting Labour forever while we are robbed and left in the gutter.
It’s a strange experience as I watch the penny finally drop down here.
Meanwhile last night my committed No voting, closed mind, no discussion wife picked up a WBB from the table and began leafing through it muttering ‘maybe, maybe, maybe’. I watched with bated breath, not daring to say anything.
I may have to hold onto one until the vote Stu, if that is alright?
Are there any aspects of our lives that these evil conniving pathological lying bastards don’t control? FFS! WAKE UP!
Muscleguy,my cherished copy of WBB is doing the rounds in Busby,hopefully having the same desired effect as yours!….
I just down loaded the AUDIO version of the WBB.
IT’s a superb job, much better than reading, nice Scots accents telling the truth as it should be.
It’s on Michael Greenwells page
BTW offered WBB to a few Yessers on the doorstep yesterday if they knew any undecideds but they were honest and said they didn’t. I have given one away to a Yesser to use on an undecided but well done folk. Seems the message about how WBBs are to be used has got through.
Also was told by some RIC colleagues before the canvas yesterday that Wings was racist, sexist and homophobic. People saying it then revealed they never read Wings and had no idea what ‘unique pageviews’ means. R-Type Grunt used newspaper sales analogy that opened their eyes a chink. Not all Yessers have open minds it seems. Some are a mite too blinkered. Ah well, it takes all sorts.
The rest of that article is brilliant too.
Daily record running online poll today , if you haven’t checked it out already , please do, yes is at 84% no at 16%
last time I checked lets see if they print it
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
only we can lose this now , we are winning .
I have been telling the Boy Revolutionary that for years on the UKleft forum, before I gave up in disgust at the British Nationalism of the very British left. I think I left when he bemoaned the fact that Engerland would be left to the Tories it the sweaty socks leave. It told him Labour was our Tories and we don’t differentiate between the same way parties as the English Nationalists do.
@donald anderson
Ah, sweaty Sock, that term of endearment beloved by the rUK.
Like Paki and chink but with more love attached?
Ah, sweaty Sock, that term of endearment beloved by the rUK.
Like Paki and chink but with more love attached?
YES and NO Jim.
As for the undecided. If they don’t have enough information by now they must be brain dead. Sorry to say that. I have lost patience with all numpties.
First and immediate reaction I have seen from YES posters to this proposal from the unionists was, ‘don’t touch it with a barge poll. Ye cannae trust a word they say’. I hope that will be the consensus among YES voters and those who might still be sitting on the fence.
For people who haven’t decided yet. I think they must have a genetic defect which prevents them from making decisions. I suspect they will be shouting for more information right up to the wire. Will, I won’t I!
Earlier today, a friend here in America pointed me to Ed Means at ElectricScotland who has been posting analyses and commentary on how for decades the Westminster government has been cooking the public books in order to portray the Scottish economy as unable to survive without infusions from the Exchequer.
I am including his latest, but there are more at his blog.
link to electricscotland.com
Thanks to the Web it’s helping spark those who have a vote in our neighborhood of the diaspora to make sure they use it.