The Face Of No
Posted on
April 08, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The other (and more complete) view of this story from yesterday:
Remember, readers, when we were all over the papers as “creepy as f**k”, intimidatory “spies” for peacefully and non-confrontationally documenting alleged “Better Together” events with long-distance photos in which we carefully avoided publishing anything that could be used to identify any individuals?
Seen much coverage of the above incident (just one of a series involving the same perpetrator in different locations) in the mainstream media? Heard Blair McDougall or Alistair Darling condemning it or promising to put a stop to it, as they constantly demand Alex Salmond do with Yes-supporting random loonies?
No, us either.
I do like the
“…what’s he saying, anyway? What’s he talking about?”
Quite.
The guy looks like one of them who were causing trouble at the 2012 Princes Street Rally, and was taken off site by the police. They were dressed exactly the same way with dark hooded jackets, and sound the same.
I suspect his sole purpose was to disrupt as much as possible, be as loud mouthed as possible, then get it on youtube. Which is what he did. A complete set up, but by who?
The Confrontation constitutes as breach of the peace.
Mr Hoodie was the culprit. He approached the Yes group to provoke them. Sticking a camera in their face as well as the language he used is evidence of that.
The police ought to have been called in.
And you won’t – Much admiration goes to the patience and restraint shown by the YESSERS under what was severe and very disturbing aggression!
Inconherent rambling versus Yes folk just take in their stride, polite & engaging.
A picture (and video) is worth a thousand words
The guy is wearing a hoodie so it must be Ian Murray.
The bloke in the video with the England fixation still made more sense than George Robertson, despite being certifiable.
Ah, the police did arrive, but they should have cautioned him.
@Grouse Beater, I bet he would not stay around long enough to be arrested, but the traffic is all one way and we know which way it is coming. These people are trash, loud trash but trash just the same. Not helped by the media and by those in charge of Better Together who seem to be unable to articulate anything without resorting to either warning or some sort of fear tactic. So we can expect that those of lower brain power will resort to this.
It worries me that this guy can rant for 4 minutes long on a subject he has no real grasp of, at all, and not listen to anyone else’s point of view. Is he that deluded or is he a politician?
Anybody remember what the interloper at The Counting House looked like?
Helena
I’m of the opinion those in our ghettos are there because those with any ambition and dynamism left years ago.
I suppose Lord (George) Robertson will be next to wearing a hoodie over his ermine cloak after his hugely embarrassing speech in America.
link to bbc.co.uk
What am absolute plonker. The Americans will be scratching their heads in amazement at how the British establishment are simply f*****g everything up in this referendum debate.
A relation to Ian Murray?
Ok this is my take on mr hoody
Either he has very serious mental issues, hence the need to talk at shouting pitch and ramble incoherently.
or
He was being used as an ‘agent provocateur’ with a two fold result. First to provoke a reaction, which correctly he didn’t get and secondly to put off any casual passer by from stopping. Many people don’t like or want confrontation, so when presented by a shouting man, will tend to avoid. (interestingly a trick that the Nazi brown shirts used in 30’s Germany, when intimidating anyone trying to shop at jewish businesses, they would hang around menacingly at berate anyone that came towards the shop, resulting in the shop loosing business)
Anyway that’s my take
*a* face of no, but not *the* face of no. For me that is still Ryan, student, wee dugs and sausage rolls.
(just one of a series involving the same perpetrator in different locations)
Interesting. Is there filmed footage of his other escapades?
Looks and feels like a deliberate attempt at provocation. We had something similar at our YES shop on Cowal Games in Dunoon last year with similar almost incoherent ranting about SNP Nazis
“Is there filmed footage of his other escapades?”
There is, recorded by himself. I’m just converting it for upload, because the halfwit filmed it sideways.
Someone is pulling the strings. These individuals need a coordinator. He is usually an older guy who remains separate and directs by phone. I watched it at the first March and Rally.
The question is who is encouraging and directing them?
We had a few join the March ranks in Edinburgh and keep quite for a while. When the March was underway they started shouting racial abuse at a few individuals on the pavement.
A lot of planning goes in to this, they are attempting to get a reaction or to give the impression that the independence movement is fascist. It all ties in with the latest threat claims by BT people.
Are we sure this isnt one of those Joaquim Phoenix – Casey Affleck Art Film projects showing a strange erratic character leaving normal folk perplexed?
O/T sorry so quick but “Lord Robertson” this morning says Scottish Independence threatens world peace.
Tell that to the couple of million people who live in Glasgow, Argyll area who are sitting on 200 Nuclear bombs at Faslane. They would be one of the first targets if anything bad kicked off. High time they realised that.
Note also Westminster has reduced the liabilities of English companies working at Faslane, in the case of Nuclear accidents their liability will be contained at a measly £100,000, anything more and it will be paid by the tax payers. An Accident of any consequence could cost many millions to clean up, if indeed it was possible at all.A nice one eh?
Have to ask the question, after all their years at Faslane, why now? They are negating their responsibilities, they would not be even considering this if it were Portsmouth, for example, but Scotland……
@ Gillie
I suppose Lord (George) Robertson …
Robertson is indulging in another version of fear. He is externalising his perceived “fears” without checking if they are shared, and doing so from a safe distance, whilst trying to stoke the fear of uncertainty in others.
I am certain many fair-minded Americans must wonder what a Scot is doing demeaning his homeland and its people.
Is George Robertson’s attack on the democratic wishes of Scotland, one of Anus Sawar’s fantasy big gun’s of years past?
Listening to his xenophobic prattle on GMS this morning really lets you know how insignificant he is, at least Nicola put his crap into its proper prespective.
The fact someone was daft enough to put him head of defence & Nato is scary enough.
I agree with @Clootie; there could be organisation of this sort of thing. Am I the only one concerned that this guy might have been radicalised by the SDL?
The guy could be an “Establishment Plant”, sent in to provoke a backlash from YES campaigners.
link to privacylover.com
According to GMS Robertson said that an independent Scotland would be cataclysmic for world peace…I nearly drove off the road laughing…there should be a health warning before these stories come on.
On topic, I am glad that the police were not called. The Yes campaigners were patience personified and dignified to boot. The chap had to up the ante, kick the sign over and start swearing and still didn’t get a reaction (did someone offer to give him a hug? 🙂 )
All in all the video makes Yes look mature, professional and relaxed and the anti types really deranged. So much so I am surprised that BT haven’t tweeted to suggest he was a Yes plant to make them look bad.
This is just so sad. I am one of the lucky Scots who was brought up by parents who instilled the ethos of eduction and a decent week’s work. As a result I am a higher rate taxpayer.
I am voting YES in the knowledge that I may well have to pay more to help this type of individual.
It isn’t politically correct to say it, but history usually repeats itself. Thus there is excellent research, initially from the U of Aberdeen, subsequently from U of Edinburgh based on the now outlawed process of the assessment of all Scots children at age11 essentially undergoing an IQ test at the end of primary school, for about 30 years, so there is this excellent baseline, and 70 – 80 year olds were tracked for follow up assessment.
This shows that if you were born on “the estate” and weren’t very bright you were doomed to remain the all your life. Some of the more able ones were able to become socially mobile. So what’s the problem.
Despite professionals such as social workers and teachers being lambasted, which is the political expedient, we should remember there are 168 hours in the week and teachers have 22 or so for PART of the year. The rest are owned by the parents so who should we assume have the main impact on a child’s ability to concentrate, wish to succeed and so forth.
Look at some of this type of individual. As a baby they were sat on their arses in front of the box while the teenage parent did their own things, and on the same arse while pushchaired to the shop for essentials ( fags, baked beans, certainly not 7-a -day) and back to the telly.
The idea of ScotGov’s investment in taking these poor children out of this crappy environment for outdoors activities and more is something I can believe in.
“On topic, I am glad that the police were not called.”
Doesn’t anyone watch to the end of these things?
“I am surprised that BT haven’t tweeted to suggest he was a Yes plant to make them look bad.”
That’s why I uploaded this version, having put out the nutter’s own one yesterday. I thought it was important that he should be seen lest it be suggested he was a ringer.
What angers me most of all is the criminal reluctance of No Not Ever politicians and media types to investigate the many disadvantages Scotland shoulders forced to function under an imposed system denying it genuine democratic rights, structures and processes.
They do not ask, “How are the people affected?”
Instead they ask the rhetorical, “What is the problem?”
With Westminster it’s all one-way.
He confessed to being a Hibernian fan in the comments under his uploaded video.
Maybe he thinks the forthcoming referendum is putting Terry Butcher off?
I’ve seen clowns like this apprehended under citizens arrest for far less. Maybe the Yes campaign need to think about employing a couple of judo types to deal with such threatening individuals.
Shame the police arrived after the event. I’m sure if they’d bourne witness at the start he would have been ushered away and cautioned.
Certainly the police should be able to issue a retrospective ASBO on the basis of this footage?
All credit to the Yes camp for not rising to the bait and keeping calm and measured throughout.
10/10 guys.
Doesn’t anyone watch to the end of these things?
*cough* Sometimes *cough*
That guy wasn’t thick. He was a British plant and he did his job very well. I first came across these sort of guys in the 60’s and they haven’t changed much at all. The language is exactly the same: raving on about the English and Nazis and/or Communists.
They are quite smart and their aim is to create a situation where we will attack them physically. The whole scenario is being filmed from a distance: either from a nearby parked car or from a window. Or even, for that matter, from a micro camera hidden in his lapel or badge.
I first became aware of what the British were doing back in 1964 when my brother stood as an SNP candidate for the local elections. Phone calls started to be made to our house from men (it’s nearly always men) ranting on about wanting to join the SNP because they wanted to ”get the Engliah to fuck out of Scotland”.
When you asked for their address and phone number the line always went dead.
Next time a meeting is interrupted by an agitator as in that wee, film try to get everyone gathered around him and start clapping and cheering and laughing. He will leave.
Just make sure you have someone filming it.
How do you post a youtube video up.
This is a better wee video to watch! A wee plug for Wings at the very end!
link to m.youtube.com
Hi Guys
Its a setup!
Well done to the rest of the group for maintaining their discipline.
Expect more of the same and an escalation towards promotion of violence and aggression.
Be on the ball and be careful of bringing vulnerable members of your family to any of your groups or public gatherings.
“Grouse Beater says
I’m of the opinion those in our ghettos are there because those with any ambition and dynamism left years ago.”
An opinion based on fuck all? I live in one of those ‘ghettos’ and you can go and fuck yourself you pompus dickhead.
People of the stupid variety live in all sorts of housing. ‘Where does George Robertson live’ you hear say, not in Wester Hailes I can assure you. The demonisation of those of us the live in public housing is safe and well in your hands.
How dare you accuse people of having no ambition or talent of living in schemes because they are still there. Not everyone wants or can’t afford a mortgage. Just think before you most such crass statements or I’d suspect you’re just another tory riding on the coatails of the YES campaign
Stuart
Doesn’t anyone watch to the end of these things?
It’s difficult to watch because it achieves what Mr Hoodie wanted, provokes a negative reaction. You turn away.
In any event, the police arrive late, and are way in the background composition-wise, unsure of what’s happening. They should have pursued the bastard and cautioned him.
I’ve been in similar situations.
It is very intimidating. On one occasion the f*ckwit was waving a gun around and ranting – he was an ex-soldier who had served in Northern Ireland, another poor guy from the human filing system that is Glasgow’s high rise flats.
(The gun was empty – but who knew?)
It took me fifteen scary minutes to calm him down, get him to put the gun away, and share a cigarette.
The last task was a miracle. I don’t bloody smoke.
Just heard a news report about George Robertson’s speech on Radio Clyde. He was intoduced as a ‘former NATO secretary-general’, no mention of him being a former Scottish Labour MP. The obvious inference is that he is neutral.
Looks like one of the nyaffs that show up at the SDL rallies a better close up would help( I usually go along to support UAF)
Very depressing watching the lad spout his abuse towards the Yes supporters.
There is a link to the No message that being a supporter of Scotland running its own affairs means you are anti something (or everything). They can’t seem to accept the fundamental right of self determination.
Darling and McDougall need to start taking responsibility for the message they are instilling in these people. They know exactly what they are doing.
What is needed here is a montage of our English yes voters and friends saying something like “I’m English and I’m voting yes for a better country” not only to put this guy’s rantings in perspective but to reassure potential yes voters who might believe the false claims of some of the other dubious NO people of which there are a few.
He had all the characteristics of an agent provocateur, so who is paying him, or am I just paranoid?.
If not a paid provocateur, than please do not shoe pity or try to make excuses for this animated piece of excrement.
Good manners and tolerance for others, is not the sole preserve of the middle class or privately educated.
Please vote YES
Unsurprisingly the Civil Service impartiality and referendums committee video feed isn’t working.
Every other committee’s video is working just fine of course.
@ Murray
And the tragedy is, Hoodie is the very sort denied the liberties we fight for. He suffers the deficit. He needs all the freedoms and empowerment that go with self-governance.
His exit line is, “It’s a social thing!” Correct. And he needs a social platform to channel the anger in him.
test
How’s it going guys? I can’t join in on the “It must be Ian Murray” talk because that’s in my view exactly the sort of joke the BT campaign will take as us accusing him, rather than satire (although, as there aren’t any animals I can see how people could miss the satire-wee Stewart Lee reference).
Lord Robertson’s statements today give me 2 thoughts. 1- BT really are pant soilingly scared of a yes now, as they evidently don’t have a plan b for trident. Robertson is trying to appeal to the big men of America to give them help because their campaign of fear is failing, and America have 13 years of coordinated fearmongering experience. It won’t work, of course. The UK is NOT the big military power she feels she is and her only value to the US is in backing them up at security council meetings- the splitting free of Scotland will make no difference to this.
Secondly, the no campaign has no intentions of going positive (from Labour’s side anyway- I actually thinks despite his lack of debate, Cameron sees himself as “good cop” and were he not a Tory it might even work on many). This is, of course, excellent news for us. Especially given the breakdown of who we trust that today’s poll results show. The more negative these guys get, the less TV and print will be trusted and the more people will trust us campaigners and websites like this- after all, when you start looking at genuinely well constructed information about the debate, you go to yes.
Is this him at an SDL Rally?
link to youtube.com
The moron was sent specifically to provoke a violent reaction. If he really was as impassioned as his spiel would have us believe he would surely have got physical. That he didn’t rather gives the game away.
Don’t rise to it. We’re nearly there.
Re George Robertson. There’s “something of the night about him”.
Cameron B,
I agree entirely. In my work I deal with the people at the very heart of some of Glasgow’s worst poverty regularly. On the whole, I have to say I have never met a more humble and dignified lot- which is saying a lot given that I’m seeing them in A&E, far from their best. Good manners are unrelated to wealth, it’s certainly neither fair to state all those suffering from deprivation (who, by the by, have most to gain from a yes vote) can be tarred with this brush, nor is it fair to use deprivation as an excuse for this ill mannered git’s behaviour. Some people, for whatever reason, are just bad. That boy is one of them.
An orchestrated Brit plant. Much like the Better Together astroturf campaign we are witnessing.
O/T slightly…
Please leave off with the hoodie generalisations people. It’s rather insulting and does you all no favours. Just sayin’.
Comments open with the state broadcaster on our impending cataclysmic doom
@ CameronB
Good manners and tolerance for others
It isn’t an issue of bourgeois good manners. It never was. If you feel downtrodden and disenfranchised tolerance is the last thing you have to hand out.
Clootie says:
Someone is pulling the strings. These individuals need a coordinator. He is usually an older guy who remains separate and directs by phone. I watched it at the first March and Rally.
Given the ineptitude of these confrontations, if there is an SDL puppet master he could be working for the yes side… thanks for the testimony though Rough Bounds, always worth remembering the state has got up to some dirty tricks in the past, from an Edinburgh policeman honey-trapping hotheads into blowing up EIIR post boxes in the 1950s to extra-judicial murder in Northern Ireland.
As for George Robertson, he is a world-class toady who rose without trace to the top, and whose only talent today appears to be taking offence at cybernats. I disapprove of intemperate language, but in this debate he has taken on the role of our plaything, to insult on twitter when we are bored.
The BBC article on George Robertsons silly speech is open for comments – obviously featured prominently in the entire UK section with the scaremongering headline.
Let’s just see the type of reasonable debate from the NO side that will take place..
@ Alfresco Dent
Please leave off with the hoodie generalisations people
You refer to him earlier as a “moron.”
@ Grouse Beater
He is a moron. I doubt it’s caused by his wardrobe.
Re George Robertson. There’s “something of the nit about him”.
Some people just don’t like change.
Shameful to take it out into the street where there are kids and elderly. I wouldn’t want my kids nor my mother to see this.
Mind you, my ma would’ve put him right toot sweet.
Whereabouts was this Yes rally? I’ll gladly go along to the next one as an English, Green Party voter to dispel this guys fears. 😉
@ suzanne
Good for you – look here to start with: link to yesscotland.nationbuilder.com
By a strange coincidence Alistair Carmichael has a huge spread in Today’s record lamenting the nastiness that is consuming the campaigns.
This is the next stage of a frenzied Better Together campaign.
Rather than avoiding the issue we should make this very clear.
@ Alfresco Dent
He is a moron
Well, I agree my “Mr Hoodie” is too convenient a label, one with loaded implications, but I do go on to try and understand his predicament – and inarticulacy is one of his worst problems, a problem shared by many a Scot.
He’s perfect fodder for extreme groups precisely because he is disadvantaged and inarticulate, from a deprived environment where you live on your wits.
I believe I am fighting for his liberty too – annoying as that is when faced by obduracy. That’s democracy. Getting him to understand that, however, might be an uphill battle especuially when I go home afterwards to a different place than him.
What I am saying is, like the USA’s bizarre Tea Party, funded by big business as a psuedo-protest group, people like him need understood if their aggression is to be lessened. And it lies in their complaints. We have to listen – carefully.
Incidentally, he was probably as nervous as those he confronted.
O/T Aint seen this quote before from the secretary of state for Portsmouth “The arguments we have are positive, but we have allowed ourselves to be defined by the other side as negative.”
So they have been telling us the positive case for the Union all along, how stupid of me not to notice!
From an article in the Japan Times, well worth a read to see what a balanced piece of journalism in a newspaper looks like 🙂
link to archive.is
First of all, well done the YES team who admirably showed no adverse reaction to this ranting, incoherent BritNat agitator. Secondly, has anyone ever seen similar video evidence of a pro-indy supporter acting like this at any NO stalls or BT folk handing out their leaflets?
Re George Robertson’s latest public display of his deteriorating mental state. I see BT are resorting to enlisting the aid of a Dad’s Army of other HoL zombies, in the form of Foulkes, Reid and Liddell, who will shuffle and lurch their way north to terrify us into voting NO. Now, that IS verging on cataclysmic – apocalyptic even!
I met George Robertson at an event two or three years ago, and spoke to him for five minutes.
He struck me as a man who had made a little go a very long way indeed.
That meeting was late starting.
On now.
link to parliamentlive.tv
@ Calcagus
He struck me as a man who had made a little go a very long way indeed.
Chuckle.
@ Grouse Beater
I’m sorry. I didn’t realise you know the guy. If you don’t then that’s a helluva lot of sweeping generalisations you’ve made there. Try not to judge a book by its cover. Also, go buy the boxed set of GBH. Know thine enemy.
Plant? The security services have big form in this type of skulduggery. Remember the undercover met police operations regarding the animal rites campaign.
Lord Robertson, dr Ried, Liddle, Brown, Darling, D Brown etc. they hitched their wagon to Blair who had hitched his wagon to the USA neocon bandwagon and hence Labour (Scottish branch) are where they are today. They became more right wing the the Tories. That’s why the Labour veterans are going to be wheeled out to try and defend their previous reasons for selling out the Scottish socialist jerseys, and try to take the bad look away from their pasts.
They were willing expendable tools of US foreign policy and gofers for GEORGE W BUSH, Rumsfeld, etc wee lord Robertson is still on the make for greater honours at the gift of the good old UNCLE SAM. This lot are the real deal, no job to dirty, no job to low.
Robertson has hit on the No campaigns strongest argument, unfortunately it only appeals to people who regard themselves as true Brits.
As for the hibee in the video, better off ignoring the boy, if you are going to take him on, if it was me and the ground was dry, I’d sit on the ground and look at him or a chair.
People soon find it very hard in situations like that to address folk if they aren’t standing up, in short, you’d weird him out.
I can’t see much difference between this clown and Lord Robertson:they are both living out a paranoid fantasy.
Tuesday morning Costa coffee with UKOK thugs but who can really blame these types eg. even progressive liberal Guardian ever more extreme vote No headlines. If all news, cooridinated by the BBC, is telling you you’re in terrible trouble if you vote yes, its going to scare people. link to theguardian.com
Designed to try to provoke a reaction from the YES people. Fortunately, they did what anybody should in such circumstances – call the police.
I’d agree with others, probably an agent provocateur. Has he been prosecuted for breach of the peace yet? there is plenty evidence.
Have had some problems trying to post this.
Is this the same guy at SDL rally?
youtu.be/OCKUjizEqXE
@ Alfresco Dent
Try not to judge a book by its cover.
I try not to write in cliches.
He needed cautioned. But then, he knows there are limits. He skedaddled soon as the police arrive. So he not that much of a “moron” just a stupid bastard for not thinking for himself.
Yes, I “know” the guy in the sense I worked in Glasgow’s east end among them for five years.
Nah, tried the BBC comments page…too painful.
Last year when a discussion on independence came up in the pub there was a guy there who was hysterical about the idea. My friend and I tried to calmly explain some points to him where years of lies and propaganda had convinced this guy that Scotland was basically one of the poorest nations on earth only able to survive on handouts from our English neighbors. So much fear had been installed into this guy that he actually said he would kill himself if we got independence.
As you can imagine I was quite shocked by this comment which he repeated several times. I think I realized then more than I ever had what affect these lies and myths born from Westminster had had on our nations people. The guy in the video is just another example of what happens when the people in power over you will say and do anything to hold that power and keep us in our place.
I actually hate the Labour party as much as I do the Tories now, if not a little more when I see the way they treat this country whilst proclaiming to have its best interests at heart. We know what the Tories are all about but with Labour you can see with how they say whatever they think you want to hear when appropriate. Their only ideology now is to get power, not stand up for the working man and woman so the it doesn`t matter if the Tories are in or out of power in Westminster because the Labour club is more than happy to cosy up to big business and accept that the corrupt Westminster system is the right one for the UK.
We don`t have any other option in this referendum, thankfully the Devo Plus/Max option is off the ballot paper. We need to win this one though cos the alternative is far too grim future to even think about!
I think this is it.
link to youtube.com
Saw details of the George Robertson speech on Twitter and foolishly assumed it was a parody. BT seem to be getting fairly desperate and we are a long way from polling day. Bizarre.
“Grouse Beater says
I’m of the opinion those in our ghettos are there because those with any ambition and dynamism left years ago.”
Have to say I agree with Sneddon @10.09. My first impression when I read Grouse Beater’s post, was that it read like something a thatcherite tory would say. Every ‘winner’ in the current system more or less requires a whole bunch of ‘losers’.
In my experience, ‘dynamism’ or not, most peoples lives/careers contain a fair bit of unquantifiable luck and happenstance. That includes your parentage.
Did the Lib/Dems not tell Scottish Labour that they need to do more and start getting their “Big Hitters” out.
John Reid was high up on their list. Not heard from him yet.
C’mon John don’t be shy, tell me why I should vote NO.
@ Grouse Beater, sorry for not replying sooner, had the dog to walk.
Have to say he may not come from one of the Ghetto’s, and there are still decent people there, many forced back because of Gordon Brown’s financial wizardry. There as many who will cause trouble in empty houses and they live very comfortably outside said Ghetto’s. By the way I come from one of the smaller ones in Edinburgh and before that lived in a tenement flat in Portobello, which was condemned the day I left School for good. I like to think that finally getting a bedroom of my own and an actually bathroom was not the reason I have always aspired to an Independent Scotland, but it has helped.
jingly jangly
Japanes culture is still strongly influenced by their cultural asteatic of Wabi-sabi. This is a path to harmony IMO, as it promotes an understanding and balancing of substantive form and outward appearance.
Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity (roughness or irregularity), simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes.
link to en.wikipedia.org
The Japanese also have the words honne and tatemae, which are used to convey the reality that surface is not always the same as underlying substance. Or people’s outward expression of believes doe not always reflect deeply held feelings.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Ah Reek Robertson. The stench emanating from this individual alone should be enough to sway any ‘don’t knows’
Perhaps he is looking to the future if the latest national service bill going through the lords gets passed. Every undecided woman voter needs to learn about this bill.
link to services.parliament.uk
@ Col
The guy in the video is just another example of what happens when the people in power over you will say and do anything to hold that power and keep us in our place.
To vote Yes means radical change; it will appear slowly not overnight, as decrepit shibboleths are thrown over and new, better structures implemented, but change it is. One day almost everything will be different a generation down the line.
Questioning the status quo can unsettle the best of us.
(Try telling a close friend the car he so proudly chose in lurid heliovomit has lost a chunk of its value because of its hideous colour, and will be hell to sell.)
Salmond is right offering a policy of incremental change, one step at a time.
FFS. C’mon you lot. You’re becoming paranoid. Stop the stupid nonsense about conspiracies. You’re playing into BnpT’s hands. You’ll scare undecideds away from voting YES if you continue.
And You’re giving the cretin in the vid far too much credibility. He’s using a camera phone and he’s shouting because he is shit scared in case he IS attacked. I haven’t a clue what he says because he is so incoherent, which makes him useless; everyone just laughs at him which I understand people did at the above event. Don’t forget that that uber YES supporter Kate Higgins called him “a victim” because people were taking the piss. And when an idiot is making a fool of himself crowds GATHER to watch.
And he has removed that video above from youtube.
I looked for a few seconds at the moron’s later vid where, as Stu says, the fool hasn’t the wit to realise he has filmed at 90 degrees from horizontal. But I can’t watch any more than that because it is so poor quality and noisy.
Just slightly off-topic but what happened to reports of a mini riot in Embra prior to the Ramsden Cup Final with 13 Rangers fans supposedly arrested? Curious how that report seems to have disappeared from all media sources…
jingly jangly
Re. the Japan Times, the Japanese have a cultural advantage over us, IMO.
Their cultural aesthetic of Wabi-sabi, fosters clarity of vision and an appreciation that surface form does not always reflect inner properties. The Japanese also use the words honne and tatemae to describe how people’s outward statements do not always reflect inner feelings.
IMO, the MSM needs to become a little more Wabi-sabi, if they are to serve the best interests of the Scottish public and Scottish democracy.
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to en.wikipedia.org
Col, your post was very interesting, but if you don’t put proper paragraph breaks in, RevStu will delete it and nobody else will be able to read it. Which would be a shame. He’s a bit of a nazi that way!
@ John
I read Grouse Beater’s post, was that it read like something a thatcherite tory would say
Yes, it has that awkwardness left as a bare statement, but its meaning is more sophisticated than at first sight: there are people impossible to convince by the 18th September because they feel their community as good as any. There’s no need to attain better.
They see generations of Labour councillors and Labour MPs their natural protectors. It is a kind of apathy, an inertia. To deny it exists is to dismiss whole groups of people who we are fighting for.
I should know: I’ve lived and worked in the east end of Glasgow, in Fountainbridge, Niddrie Marschal, and Wester Hailes, Edinburgh. I’m familiar with poverty and what it can do to the spirit.
Article about the ‘Forces of Darkness’ speech up on The Guardian website. Even the Unionists are giving it a kicking. Glad to see ‘wheeling out the big guns’ Day 1 is going so well.
There is a very easy answer to tackling these hired thugs and that is to get their faces on camera an make sure the video is uploaded. Sooner or later someone will identify the culprits. Out them, that’s what I say:)
Plaudits to the Yessirs who stood quietly around observing his behaviour. I doubt that organised provocation such as this will be so effective as would have been a few decades ago when we had only MSM and the BBC to mis-inform.
Regards the UK government reducing the penalty for radioactive emissions accidents by companies I urge the Scottish government to issue a statement that in the event of independence a Scottish government will not be bound by the relaxations to public health issues decisions taken by the current UK government and will retrospectively pursue for due compensation,whether from the individual companies or the UK government.
@chalk.
Like the sitting down idea to “weird him out” but obviously only to be done around people willing to help out if it does not work.
If someone approaches you aggressively shouting etc, they are trying to establish if you are scared. If you show you are then they are likely to turn physically aggressive.
If however you simply take a neutral stance and less than confrontational demeanor, but not submissive, as in no talking/shouting etc, but not retreating then they will almost certainly back off.
These are self protective techniques i teach people, confident demeanor goes a long way, thugs and bullies are looking for victims, i teach 2 main things, how to not appear like a potential victim and what to do if all the above does not work.
By that i mean a combination of taekwondo/jujitsu/savate cross mix.
I do not teach much nowadays due to a severe injury doing my adrenaline junkie thang, but my advice in the video situation would have been to do exactly what you guys did that day.
It is clear who the idiot was, well done all involved ????
@ Helena
Have to say he may not come from one of the Ghetto’s…
Could be, but people tend to alter their behaviour by peer pressure more than they would ever admit.
There is a wonderful poem from one of the Liverpool poets, Brian Patten, about enjoying a film in a cinema when a blackbird enters the darkened auditorium and, following the projector’s beam of light, flies straight into what it thinks is open space, the screen, and dies.
Patten adds, “What is this? We didn’t come to see this reality! Real blood and guts.”
The intervention of that protestor IS reality.
He probably sees Yes supporters as jumped up, over-fed, over-privileged fools. Man, it’s a hard task to convince those with an inverted pride.
(Hope the dog got a good walk.)
George Robertson is doing B.B.C Scotlandshire out of a job.
Is anyone else disturbed at the similarity between Better Together tactics and German propaganda tactics of the 1930’s?
@sneedon, “An opinion based on fuck all? I live in one of those ‘ghettos’ and you can go and fuck yourself you pompus dickhead”.
Bit of a chip on that shoulder of yours, sneddon. If you must attempt to prove your credentials it would really help your case if you did so without the intemperate language. ( and, before you go off at half-cock and have yet another pop at me, consider this – I was born in, ‘A Pluckie’s Raw’, (ploughman’s row). It had no running water,(except down the inner walls), no gas and no electricity – and no guaruntee of tennancy). If the farm labourer lost his job he lost his home too.)))
proudscot says:
I see BT are resorting to enlisting the aid of a Dad’s Army of other HoL zombies
I can’t get the theme tune out my head now. Clive Dunn singing “who do you think you are kidding Mr Salmond, if you think New Labour’s done” and Labour’s ‘legends’ doddering out the title sequence smoke with their bayonets.
I know, I know – George Robertson’s words take my breath away, too. How can he (and so many like him, it seems – though it isn’t: such sentiments don’t really find echo amongst most voters of any persuasion) utter such untruths, half-truths and wild exaggerations?.
But then you think of all liberation struggles, all movements for change led by those who have fought in much worse circumstances than us and recall the abuse and lies they had to suffer – well, it just makes you think: how to move forward with even greater purpose? And the answer is: rise above it (wings over Scotland, indeed,) all the while digging deeper into what really matters to real people.
@ Sneddon
People of the stupid variety live in all sorts of housing
True, but I made no accusation anyone living in poverty was stupid. I ask questions. So should you.
People in Craigmillar, Edinburgh, knew their lives were blighted because they had been moved into a housing scheme designed to drop the disenfranchised, the disaffected, and the troublesome into a “safe” area outside the city. They were stigmatised.
It took a visionary living among them to show they could do and get better. Had she not devoted her life to galvanise the community, showing by example how to make the system work for them, what would they have done?
When you’re scraping a living together what time do you have to fight the elements or get to grips with council aid and regulation? When your education is the basic minimum, when you left school early, the only job offered the army, what do you know?
I recall one bright Glaswegian I knew as a kid and then met again as a young adult. He embraced me on the street loudly proclaiming, “Sir, remember me? Hibby? We wur in the dunce’s class, the no hopers, scruff.”
It troubled me that he had that perception of his status because … that’s exactly how he had been herded in his school days. But he had ambition, and the black limousine he pointed to showed he had pursued it. Others had not. They were still there. In Bridgeton. Making the best of poverty. Some chanted this as a way of identification:
“We’re the boys wi a’ the graces,
Yellow shirts an’ gallus braces.
We’re the boys that chib yer faces,
We’re the Bridgton Derry.”
An independent Scotland is for all of us, not just those who agree with us. But you knew that.
Regarding the chap in the video, it is useful to know who he is because if he is a SDL activist then he is likely to pop up at other events. His own words speak for themselves as do the calm reactions of the Yes campaigners. I don’t think there is much to be gained from speculating further on his motives or state of mind. He is unlikely to be the only one that pops out of the woodwork as more street work commences over the summer. He may have inadvertently supplied a training video for campaigners
Lord Robertson is comedy gold and an absolute gift. Scare mongering that is so over the top even some of the No supporters on the Beeb are saying they are embarrassed by it.
John Beattie’s Radio Scotland show now inviting comments on Robertson’s wind-egg.
I see Tellen1 (who came here as the concern troll Norsewarrior) is doing his concern troll thing on that Guardian article about Robertson. Same old schtick, been doing it for years. As transparent as museum-quality glass. And still he does it. Is it fun for him? I seriously wonder if he’s being paid for it.
BBC Have your say now txt 80295 Now
discussing Roberstons speech
@Fairliered.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised at the parallels at all. Having the dubious honour of knowing someone who openly supports the BNP down here, I am conversant with the ways of the mentality of the right. They openly admire the work of Hitler and the Nazis and will happily use their playbook. All the right wing groups such as BNP, EDL and the Ulster Extremists are fond of the same ideals and associate closely. Any match day at Ibrox will provide proof of that.
Sadly, 99% of them appear to be educationally, or at least intellectually sub-normal and they cannot see that they are being manipulated by the British Establishment as their ‘useful idiots’.
Might I also suggest some members of the group wear one of these under your ‘Yes’ badge. You might find it entertaining since no right wing person I know has a discernible sense of irony. 🙂
link to amazon.co.uk
Hmm…just got a picture in my head of the Better Together Dad’s Army group with their new catchphrase, ” We’re aw cataclysmically doomed, ah tell ye…cataclysmically doomed!”
Story in today’s Sun, MSP David Torrance assaulted by no supporter.
link to thescottishsun.co.uk
Robert
I was born in, ‘A Pluckie’s Raw’, (ploughman’s row)
Much obliged. I was too lazy to define my statement – I explained it in later posts – too late for Sneddon.
My answer to such attacks is to say, if you think how you live and where you live is just fine, then that’s fine by me … if that’s your standards.
Heather McLean says: 8 April, 2014 at 10:04 am
“This is a better wee video to watch! A wee plug for Wings at the very end!”
That was an excellent video Heather and well timed. I was reading this coincidentally with getting confirmation from a left leaning English friend based in the midlands that “…. ok now I finally get it.” A non-voting Canada based Scotsman persuades an English pal (non-voting) in England of the need for a Yes come September 18th – a bit redundant perhaps but I feel really good this morning (it’s been a three month internet exchange to reach this point!) I sent him your video clip in celebration with the comment “By St. George, you’ve got it”
The thing to bear in mind with this kind of an incident, highlighted in the video, is that whether or not any violence takes place or not, it is intended as intimidation against the Yes campaign. I reckon the purpose of this kind of an aggressive confrontation is to scare Yes activists into quitting the campaign.
There is another problem though. Increasingly on this website some people use the words “("Tractor" - Ed)s” and “("Quizmaster" - Ed)s” to describe Unionist politicians. I am afraid this kind of a language is really, really unhelpful to the Yes campaign. It allows the MSM to portray both sides as being as bad as each other. This kind of a language contributes to an unhealthy atmosphere around the referendum campaign, and does not help win over soft Nos and undecided voters. Can people please think about not using words like ("Tractor" - Ed)s and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s to describe No politicians? Remember the Yes campaign has to motivate and inspire voters.
Can I just make the point that the term, “ignorant”, simply means, “Not aware of the facts”. It most certainly does not equate to, “Stupid”,, although it seems a lot of intelligent Scots seem to think it does.
I’m not so much concerned about the hoodie guy as he was so out of order it would be difficut to take him seriously.
I think that’s why there were expressions of incredulity from those at the Yes stall.
I agree with Col I actually hate the Labour party more than the conservatives because you know where you stand with the cons but the lab lot are hypocrites of the worst kind.
They dupe people into voting for them by lying that they will improve their lives.
George Robertson is a perfect example of someone promoted for his compliance and not his intellect.
Even the most committed no person surely must think it is ridiculous that Scotland can go from being an insignificant too wee etc country to causing the breakout of WW3 by going independent – it’s beyond belief.
I think that AS has been quietly making friends in the US probably saying there is nothing to fear from us as we will join NATO etc.
That’s why I think the 2 that resigned from the SNP over NATO were being naive.
Re. George Robertson MP. Personally, I think his real-life NAZI pals in the Ukraine government, are far more of a threat to world piece than the democracy seeking YES supporters. Aren’t the EU desperate to allow the Ukraine in to the EU club?
The man is an out and our Anglo-American dupe. Lord Muppet. Grrrrr.
Lord Robertson of Port Ellen is a British Labour Party politician and served as the 10th Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation from 1999 to 2004. He has also served as Defence Secretary for the United Kingdom from 1997 to 1999 in the Government of Tony Blair. He has received a total of 11 honorary doctorates from various universities. Currently he holds directorships of several notable companies in the UK, including the Weir Group, and Cable and Wireless. Lord Robertson is also a Senior Counselor at The Cohen Group, in Washington D.C. providing advice and assistance in marketing and regulatory affairs. He is currently a member of the Top Level Group of UK Parliamentarians for Multilateral Nuclear Disarmament and Non-Proliferation.
link to europeanleadershipnetwork.org
link to en.wikipedia.org
@liz, “That’s why I think the 2 that resigned from the SNP over NATO were being naive”.
I have to agree, Liz, I’ve supported the SNP since I was a wee schoolboy in 1946. I’ve seen many changes in the party policies in all that time. Often I did not agree with a particular policy but, as the Party is strictly democratic, I went with the majority.
I would say the matter that has made me prouder of the party than any other through those years was the TV exposure of the NATO membership debate at party conference.
It showed the World how political party policy should be made. A proper one member one vote decision with Alex Salmon’s vote only as valid as every other individual member’s vote.
Blackford Wheeler, I clicked on your link and read the start of the Sun article. The first thing I noticed was that the SNP MSP involved, David Torrance, was NAMED – unlike the still UNnamed Labour MP who was allegedly subjected to “threats” from YES supporters, so that he now has to hide under a hoodie when he goes shopping!
Craig P – “Bayonets? I didn’t imply that Ian Davidson would be leading the attack of the HoL Zimmer-Zombies.
More on George Robertson MP. Is this a man you think shares your life experience? Is this a man you would trust with your children’s future? IMO, the man may well pull a few strings, but I think his strings are being pulled by those who are far more powerful.
From Brussels to the boardroom: what George Robertson did next
Documents reveal new roles of former minister
More than £500,000 paid for business posts
It has been more than two years since George Robertson bowed out as secretary-general of Nato, leaving its Brussels headquarters and a reported tax-free salary of £140,000 a year. But rather than settle into a quiet retirement, he has taken on a series of boardroom roles, making the son of a Scottish village policeman more money than he earned as a politician – in excess of £500,000 a year.
link to theguardian.com
Lord George Islay MacNeill Robertson, KT, GCMG, HonFRSE, PC, serves as an Executive Advisor of TCG Financial Partners. Lord. Robertson serves as an Advisor to The Cohen Group. He also serves as a Strategic Advisor to the Royal Bank of Canada Europe and BP plc. He served as a Secretary General of NATO and Chairman of the North Atlantic Council from October 1999 to December 2003; Secretary of State for Defence from 1997 to 1999; and Member of Parliament for Hamilton and Hamilton South from 1978 to 1999.
He was appointed to Her Majesty’s Privy Council in 1997, appointed by the Queen as a Knight of the Thistle (KT), and awarded the GCMG (Knight Grand Cross of the Order of St Michael and St George) in 2004. He serves as Deputy Chairman of TNK-BP International Ltd. Mr. Robertson served as Deputy Chairman of OAO TNK-BP Holding and also served as its Director from January 2009 and June 30, 2010.
He serves as a Member of Advisory Board at Englefield Capital LLP and the Smiths Group plc. He has been Non Executive Director of the Weir Group plc since February 2004 and its Senior Independent Director since Mat 9, 2012. He was appointed to the Board of Cable and Wireless as an Executive Deputy Chairman on February 1, 2004.
He serves as the Co-Chairman of Ministerial Roundtable and former Chairman of the NATO-Russia Council. Mr. Robertson received the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom in November 2003 from President George.W. Bush. He has been awarded the highest national Honors from Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, The Netherlands, Belgium, Hungary, Luxembourg, Lithuania, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, and Estonia. He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, and an Elder Brother of Trinity House.
Mr. Robertson was elected an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh in February 2003 and has Honorary Doctorates from Dundee, St Andrews, Bradford, Cranfield, and Glasgow Caledonian Universities, as well as from Baku State University, Azerbaijan and The French University, Armenia.
link to investing.businessweek.com
@proudscot
Zimmer Zombies, so stealing that 😀
Genuine question.
As George Robertson was formerly head of NATO, should we anticipate NATO’s press statement regarding NATO’s agreement or disapproval of such loaded comments about world peace?
@ Robert Peffers
Can I just make the point that the term, “ignorant”, simply means, “Not aware of the facts”. It most certainly does not equate to, “Stupid”,, although it seems a lot of intelligent Scots seem to think it does.
That’s true, but ‘ignorant’ is often intended to mean ‘stupid’ in everyday useage and without sufficient context is ambivalent in meaning. I agree Sneddon flew off the handle a bit, but as I said in a previous post, I read it the same way he did.
Indeed, your own post could be construed to mean that his English wasn’t good enough to understand what Grouse Beater meant – I’m not criticising you, just pointing out the way text can often be interpreted in several (unintentional) ways.
@Grouse Beater – fair enough, I was only trying to pour oil on troubled waters.
Hope this reads alright – what happened to the preview box?
Interesting to read of George Robertson’s achievements, but he’ll always be just a man with a mouth like a dog’s bottom, as my 8 year old nephew said when he saw the fine lord on TV.
John Gibson
Hope this reads alright – what happened to the preview box?
This site is under constant cyber-warfare attacks, such as Distributed Denial of Service attacks (DDOS).
Denial is apparently a Unionist affliction. 🙂
Cameron B at 1.48
If only the people of Hamilton knew all that before they rejected Margo MacDonald for this Establishment gold digger in 1978.
He was being filmed by what looked like a professional cameraman with sound guy at one point so his mugshot is on film as a matter of record. Can i ask has this been kept from the public and us for any particular reason?
John
I was only trying to pour oil on troubled waters.
You devil, you.
I think what I was saying is, there are those we should ignore meantime because they want for no empowerment, or are aggressively against change. Wiser to concentrate on those amenable to sound argument showing how they can achieve better things through empowerment.
Nevertheless, we ignore protest at our democratic peril. We see the forces that will round up the disaffected and exploit their anger for authoritarian ends.
Just read George Robertson’s guff – hell, he must seen the endearingly demented movie, “Noah” – “the Creator is wiping out mankind with a flood!” Robertson harks back to the days when politicians could impose any policy they wanted and at massive cost to the nation.
I think this guys problem is actually, too many brain cells. The second one is constantly bashing against the first one and causing this amount of confusion in that big empty space. The strange thing is that if there was a third one, he might have a chance of being more articulate.
I quite believe that this is an organised strategy by the SDL. Along with the attempt to provoke a violent reaction, there is also a not too subtle infiltration ploy going on.
Having had a couple of what may be termed, “heated discussions” in the past, with some of these numpties from my neck of the woods,I was a bit surprised to receive a text message from one of them. He intimated that he had seen the light,citing one of the reasons being “Westminster has niggerfyed the South”. Honest, you really couldn’t make it up.
I’m stringing him along at the moment, even agreeing to meet up for a pint in the near future. Who knows, it might be useful.
@Heather McLean, brilliant video.
@Papadox
The animal rights extremists have committed more individual acts of terrorism on the British Mainland than the IRA, it’s just that their bombs are smaller.
I’m a biologist and when living in London was credibly advised to check under my car in the morning for attached devices. Try explaining to a young girl why her Daddy is peering under the car and not allowing her in until he has done so.
Remember a DVLA worker was convicted of supplying license holder details to the ALF so this was no scaremonger.
I have also been evacuated from my place of work on more than one occasion due to actual parcel bombs being intercepted in the post room.
So count me glad that such people where locked up. Activities like that and bashing people over their head in their driveways with baseball bats is in no way comparable to the Yes Campaign.
@David Smith,
I wear mine all the time.
For a few reasons.
🙂
Am I way off the mark in thinking your pen-name is a cosmopolitan skit on Mytilus? 🙂
Last post meant for Muscleguy. 🙂
Thanks for that, you had me worried there Cameron
🙂
Greannach
“but he’ll always be just a man with a mouth like a dog’s bottom, as my 8 year old nephew said when he saw the fine lord on TV.”
I’ve been having trouble finding a funny way of describing GR’s very odd looking mouth and your nephew describes it near perfectly. Maybe he’s destined to be a script writer. May I suggest the following modification to reach perfection…GR has a mouth like a bulldog’s bottom (aka asshole,when used in coarser company).
@a Supporter
Roond these parts we’d call that a sookit chookit.
To a Supporter @ 5.11pm.
I would wholeheartedly agree with ‘bulldog’s bottom’. The great George is a fine British Bulldog.
My nephew’s reaction was hilarious. He started sniggering and then it was an 8-year old’s version of a bellylaugh. Finally he said what he was thinking. He found Robertson simply hilarious.
If some folks think this guy may be some kind of “plant” it might be useful to find out from some locals if those policemen are the usual local plod or if they are unknown/never been seen in that area before? Can anyone verify if the police uniforms are correct? Did anyone actually phone for them or did they just randomly appear at the end of the guys rant? Are there any other “bystanders” in the footage that have been seen at other similar situations to this?
Just my 2pc worth but sometimes its whats going on around the event thats more telling.
Wouldn’t like to turn this into some kind of conspiracy debate but food for thought if this sort of thing happens in future.
Lord Robertson’s spine-chilling message was that wee Scotland becoming independent would throw Western Europe and indeed the entire global geopolitical situation into CHAOS via a CATACLYSM.
If there were anything in it at all, it would fairly undermine David Cameron’s claim that it was a matter for the Scots and nobody else’s business.
Described by some as having taken fear-mongering negativity to hilarious new heights, his speech has attracted interest from some unexpected quarters. Launching a new campaign-group ‘Dark Forces for YES’, Lords Vader, Voldemort and Sauron have today come out in favour of Scottish Independence, saying they think it sounds like a really good idea. They called on Robertson, Foulkes and the other Scottish Lords bullying-and-pleading for a No-vote to embrace their true nature and accept that it is their destiny to be split away from their seats and separated from their nukes.
“Lords Robertson and Foulkes are already on the dark side,” said Lord Vader. “I find their lack of faith in the Scottish people… disturbing.”
@ squarehaggis
Escalating it into “citizen’s arrest” would be bound to involve a scuffle: probably exactly what the guy wants.
These folk handled it very well. They did well to keep their hands in their pockets, and they did well to reposition themselves so that everyone moved further from the stall.
I think the best way to handle it is pretty much the way they did – standing quietly, hands in pockets or hands behind backs. One thing I saw done in the US was to keep no more than two people right there with him to be heckled — each staying just a minute or two before politely moving off to let someone else spell them.
That way, no individual has to put up with it for long and no-one gets mired in his weird world. Most importantly, no individual becomes the focus of any provocation, and no-one can be accused of ganging up.
What I would like to know is who were the two guys dressed in black that looked like police and seemed to have utility belts like the police but no hats or high vis vests on? They appeared a couple of minutes before the real police turned up and were in a perfect position to detain the guy, (if they were only security) as in my opinion it was a clear breach of the peace using threatening and intimidating language and body movements.
@wee-e
Agreeed, but it’s always handy to have someone on stand-by just in case things get out of hand. You’d be amazed how a little, gentle arm twist can diffuse a situation real quick.
@Gman
Yep, I wondered about that pair, very strange.