The Elite And Me
Posted on
June 05, 2024 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
If you wanted to hear me yakking on about Scottish and UK politics for 45 minutes, an excellent way to achieve it would be clicking this image.
If not, it’s probably best if you don’t.
Great stuff Stu! Lang may yer Lum reek
Well invested time listening to that, it certainly confirms just how badly NS has brought the once voice of the Indy movement to its knees.
When’s part 2 coming?
Some folks still discuss elections and politics in Scotland as if it was a ‘normal’ country, rather than what it is, a colonized country:
https://salvo.scot/scotlands-colonial-status/
If we don’t understand our ‘condition’ we are hardly likely to find the only remedy:
https://salvo-cor.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/THEORETICAL+CASE+FOR+SCOTTISH+INDEPENDENCE.pdf
I bet it’s cause they’d one of the weans draw the short straw to come up with a plan for the party political broadcast.
I bet they were up all night working on that..LOL
Not so funny would be to find out that cost a few hundred grand to one of their wee networks.
I’ve just been browsing next week’s TV Guide. On Monday 10th June, 5USA offers four hours of back to back episodes of NCIS which apparently tell the history of SNP over the past decade:
6pm “Fallout”
7pm “Date With Destiny”
8pm “Sturgeon Season”
9pm “Second Opinion”
Scotland has effectively politically «grounded itself» while the senile, toothless English T Rex roams the house, garden and neighbourhood looking for its dentures.
Would be funny if it were not for the collateral damage done to hopes, expectations, people’s lives and «trust».
Meanwhile, in «Europe» the EuroDinos have a head start on the road to extinction.
Sounds interesting!
I clicked pressed play and all was well.
I didn’t have to sign up or install anything.
I probably should have right clicked & opened in new tab in order not to be taken away from Wings.
Stu,
Excellent investigative journalism on your part, where MSM failed to even ask the Questions, well done.
thought you hated podcasts!?
Those who may wish to download “The Ordinary Elite” podcast onto their device may do so here:
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-ordinary-elite-the-ordinary-elite-CoxHwPaI46v/#
click on the […] to expand to show options and right click on the link ‘Download audio’ to save the .mp3 file from your browser.
😉
Ah I see you can save it to your library but you need to be signed up for that.
It’s episode 15 so signing up and getting your own library might be a good idea.
After all that it turns out I was already signed up.
I think a free trial of Spotify came with Alexa or something.
I’m now downloading the app to see what that does on my computer.
It seem surplus to requirements but I’ll check it out.
iMac too out of date for Spotify installer.
Find installer for older versions.
Ach never mind! I’m fine without the app.
Alf Baird,
Indeed some people do talk of Scotland as if it normal politics and normal elections, but nothing is further from the truth,
Some people talk of the parliament in Scotland as if it was a real Scottish parliament thought up by Scotland, and passed by a Scottish parliament Act,
and not a Colonial managed one sent to Scotland to impose extra laws on Scotland compared to one set of laws The Country of England from Westminster.
Westminster parliament has done these kind of rolled down parliaments in other Countries that it Colonised also,
How does that sit with the ” one parliament of Great- Britain hereafter” article of the faux treaty of union,
“thought you hated podcasts!?”
I do, that’s why my tweet said I was breaking all my rules.
Cheers aLurker
Very good link!
A very interesting and entertaining Podcast. A summary of Stu’s previously stated opinions but condensed with the context of what was happening at the time. The bet struck on more Tory MPs than the SNP on July 5th in Scotland was one I missed. Along with the Tories increasing their MPs in Scotland as the only Nation in the UK to do so. I was thinking six Tory last time and six this time. Might stick a few quid on those bets!
Well worth the time taken to listen.
Depressing, forbye.
But hope begins with an SNP wipeout.
We’ll have to start all over again, but I have no doubt that freedom, when it comes, will have started with that extinction event.
The Redmondites must be cast out.
I have avoided the Scum Nonce Party’s political broadcast like the plague because I know they are just CORRUPT LIARS who PROMISE the world and FAIL TO DELIVER ANYTHING, unfortunately the podcast forced me to take a look, and to say it is boring, uninspiring, empty of feeling, bland and just PFFAFF is being kind,I thought the poisoned DWARF sturgeon had no personality or character but swinney and forbes beat even her for boredom and blandness
It is so anger inducing that we have to listen to their bare faced lies and pish that the gullible snp voters keep believing whilst continuing to vote for them
I liked that the SNP are Jammie Dodgers. I would just add that the SNP leadership are failing to realize that if the SNP don’t send more than there present MPs the short fall in funds from Westminster will almost certainly destroy the party, which I believe this has been Sturgeon goal all along.
the SNP are a corpse blocking a fire exit
swinney even looks like one of the walking dead
James Che @ 5:02 pm
“Westminster parliament has done these kind of rolled down parliaments in other Countries that it Colonised also”
Aye James, indirect rule is a long-established imperial policy and there are always plenty of native elites willing to be pensioned off to help maintain the colonial racket. The only difference between us and other English colonies is, due to geography, Scotland (Wales and Ireland) are allowed a few token places in the imperial parliament. This maintains the colonial illusion that we are somehow party to decisions aye made by others on our behalf.
What’s interesting about Scottish politics right now, although it’s all bit grim to behold, is how postcolonial theory so accurately predicts the behaviours of those Scots native elites beholden to Westminster.
the SNP are a corpse blocking a fire exit”
They are worse than that. They are the embodiment of betrayal. Since the political fraud Sturgeon took over in November 2014, the SNP has been working tirelessly to rein the yes movement back in, to stop its momentum, to completely destroy its political vehicle for independence and more importantly, to restore Labour’s control over Scotland. They have abused our votes, abused our patience, abused our trust, abused our good will.
I do not think they give a fig about bankrupting the party. I actually think that was part of their plan, to ensure there was no way back.
I don’t think they give a fig about losing seats. Most of them would have secured nice positions in other establishment roles in exchange for selling their country. Just as the MPs from 1706 were rewarded by the crown for selling their country.
We were well and truly sold, just like Scotland was sold by the self-serving parasites sitting in its parliament in 1706.
It has been rather obvious for quite some time now that Labour by itself could have never resurrect in Scotland. So the British establishment has chosen to engineer that resurrection.
It has taken it 10 years to systematically infiltrate and take a wrecking ball to the SNP to destroy it bit by bit until there is nothing left. That is how strong the pro independence sentiment in Scotland is and how little Labour is trusted.
It is not credible that the entry of Mr Vow right into the higher echelons of the party was simply a bad choice. It was by design, to blur the brand.
The caravan was not mistake either. It is the symbol of corruption they needed to stick on the party’s lapel to ensure it was unelectable.
Their supposed chronic “incompetence” is no accident. It was needed to create the impression that Scotland cannot self-govern.
Their invitation of the gender parasites to the control room of the party and government was no accident. It was by design to build distrust among voters.
Their taking a wrecking ball to women’s rights and putting rapists in female prisons was no mistake. It was necessary to present the party as fascist entity and fabricate fear of an independent Scotland led by the SNP.
Their keeping supporting Matheson despite knowing that what he did would lead to prosecution if he was in any other line of work is no stupidity. It is by design, to cause disgust and to send the message that crime is endemic within the SNP ranks.
The establishment and the SNP themselves are doing the worse they possibly can in order to stop people voting SNP in the upcoming GE. Their disenfranchising of yes voters is by design. That is the only way Labour can win. The SNP have been on a deliberate path of a conscious self-destruction since the 14 Nov 2014.
As the REv highlighted in the podcast, there are some parallels between what is happening with the SNP in Scotland and what has happened with the tories in England.
In my view, the destruction of those two parties has not been organic. Has been by design. Just like removing Corbyn from the labour party and putting it under zionist control has not been organic. That is what the entities controlling UK politics needed to do to stick the manchurian candidate Starmer in n10.
And that is why politics in the UK are completely dead and have become completely pointless. Our political institutions have become a shell manipulated by something else.
Labour will enter n10 this time because that is what the establishment and its foreign allies have already decided it will happen, and to hell with what the people in the UK wants.
We have to stop playing this pointless game of sending MPs to Westminster to legitimise this affront to democracy.
If you really want independence and are lucky enough to have an ISP candidate or an independent candidate standing on an abstentionist ticket in your constituency, vote for them. If not, repurpose your ballot and cast your vote. Do not give labour and the establishment behind it a free ride.
Because what is the point in sending MPs to Westminter? What are we paying them for? To sell us down the river as SNP, labour, libdem and tory MPs have been doing for the last 10 years? To legitimise the systematic abuse of Scotland and the pillage of its assets? To laugh at and mock us? To patronise us? To abuse our votes by forcing on us what we did not vote for?
Let’s break the vicious circle. It is about time we refuse to play this “Scotland is the loser forever” game
“the SNP are a corpse blocking a fire exit”
They are worse than that. They are the embodiment of betrayal. Since the political fraud Sturgeon took over in November 2014, the SNP has been working tirelessly to rein the yes movement back in, to stop its momentum, to completely destroy its political vehicle for independence and more importantly, to restore Labour’s control over Scotland. They have abused our votes, abused our patience, abused our trust, abused our good will.
I do not think they give a fig about bankrupting the party. I actually think that was part of their plan, to ensure there was no way back.
I don’t think they give a fig about losing seats. Most of them would have secured nice positions in other establishment roles in exchange for selling their country. Just as the MPs from 1706 were rewarded by the crown for selling their country.
We were well and truly sold, just like Scotland was sold by the self-serving parasites sitting in its parliament in 1706.
It has been rather obvious for quite some time now that Labour by itself could have never resurrect in Scotland. So the British establishment has chosen to engineer that resurrection.
It has taken it 10 years to systematically infiltrate and take a wrecking ball to the SNP to destroy it bit by bit until there is nothing left. That is how strong the pro independence sentiment in Scotland is and how little Labour is trusted.
It is not credible that the entry of Mr Vow right into the higher echelons of the party was simply a bad choice. It was by design, to blur the brand.
The caravan was not mistake either. It is the symbol of corruption they needed to stick on the party’s lapel to ensure it was unelectable.
Their supposed chronic “incompetence” is no accident. It was needed to create the impression that Scotland cannot self-govern.
Their invitation of the gender parasites to the control room of the party and government was no accident. It was by design to build distrust among voters.
Their taking a wrecking ball to women’s rights and putting rapists in female prisons was no mistake. It was necessary to present the party as fascist entity and fabricate fear of an independent Scotland led by the SNP.
Their keeping supporting Matheson despite knowing that what he did would lead to prosecution if he was in any other line of work is no stupidity. It is by design, to cause disgust and to send the message that crime is endemic within the SNP ranks.
The establishment and the SNP themselves are doing the worse they possibly can in order to stop people voting SNP in the upcoming GE. Their disenfranchising of yes voters is by design. That is the only way Labour can win. The SNP have been on a deliberate path of a conscious self-destruction since the 14 Nov 2014.
As the REv highlighted in the podcast, there are some parallels between what is happening with the SNP in Scotland and what has happened with the tories in England.
In my view, the destruction of those two parties has not been organic. Has been by design. Just like removing Corbyn from the labour party and putting it under z io n ist control has not been organic. That is what the entities controlling UK politics needed to do to stick the manchurian candidate in n10.
And that is why politics in the UK have become completely pointless. Our political institutions have become a shell manipulated by something, somewhere else.
Labour will enter n10 this time because that is what the establishment and its foreign allies have already decided it will happen, and to hell with what the people in the UK wants.
We have to stop playing this pointless game of sending MPs to Westminster to legitimise this affront to democracy.
If you really want independence and are lucky enough to have an ISP candidate or an independent candidate standing on an abstentionist ticket in your constituency, vote for them. If not, repurpose your ballot and cast your vote. Do not give labour and the establishment behind it a free ride.
Because what is the point in sending MPs to Westminter? What are we paying them for? To sell us down the river as SNP, labour, libdem and tory MPs have been doing for the last 10 years? To legitimise the systematic abuse of Scotland and the pillage of its assets? To laugh at and mock us? To patronise us? To abuse our votes by forcing on us what we did not vote for?
Let’s break the vicious circle. It is about time we refuse to play this “Scotland is the loser forever” game
Northcode @ 7:32 pm
“postcolonial theory so accurately predicts the behaviours of those Scots native elites beholden to Westminster.”
Indeed so Northcode and, as we begin to enter the third phase of decolonization, where the people start to understand the true path to liberation and Freire’s 2-stage process in which:
1) the oppressed group and their leaders unveil the world of oppression (i.e. colonialism is revealed to them) and commit to its transformation, and:
2) the culture of domination is confronted, its myths expelled, and its presence removed.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/05/25/the-three-phases-of-decolonization-lessons-for-scotland/
Totally agree with you Mia, don’t vote for anyone who is intending to go to westminster and the english Parliament and swear that oath to the english king. Just a pity we could not persuade the other 2 countries to do the same, although I know that one party does adhere to this philosophy. On a second note I have just finished listening to a broadcast from the silver fox on the establishments efforts to stop a medical staff member giving her evidence in both covid enquiries. Gosh what an enormious effort the secret establishment are doing there. CORRUPTION ABOUNDS.
The “Continuity Cabal”…LOL
Sham Nationalist Party be gone!
Indy for Scotland!
SNP Out!
@Mia 7.42: an excellent summary of the decade-long decline of the SNP.
Millionaire self-confessed Zionist/Davos-loving Trilateral Commission Member Keir Stumer will limply take over the reins of Number 10 (although I suspect many Muslims will not vote for him and his margin of victory will be reduced) and continue the Tory policies of privatisation and huge transfers of wealth from us to the rich, embodied in the numerous public-private partnership wizard schemes which get all their investment from the public purse while all the profits go to private pockets.
I suspect whoever “wins” the GE will probably be faced with a terrifying slide to Armageddon unless some adults in America manage to wrest control of the State Department from the likes of Blinken and Nuland and accept the utter folly of their actions in the country east of Poland. Christ, even William Burns, the head of the CIA, has been telling them for ages of the lunacy of pushing for the inclusion of Yoocrane into NATO.
I used to laugh at the president I called Ronald Ray-Gun because of his SDI/Star Wars Project but he even he recognised the nascent Neo-Con fruit loops of his time who opposed nuclear arms limitation talks as “the crazies in the basement”.
Off to re-read “Your Attention Please” by Peter Porter, which I’m now suspecting is more of a premonition than a mere poem.
I hope for us all that I’m wrong.
The SNP’s fat bastards have to be voted out, every single one of them, including the likes of Cherry.
They will be replaced by other fat bastards, but we already know they are the enemy, unlike the enemy from within, the SNP wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Vote tactically against the SNP.
Not to destroy independence, but to revive it from the dead.
Well, Stu might hate podcasts but I thought that was great.
We are all wondering who will lead the independence movement out of this mess but I think I know a man that could do it… and the all-important fact that he doesn’t want the job actually proves he is the very man for the job (because we all know you should never give power to people that want it).
When did anybody that ever did anything good want the job? It goes without saying that it would be better if the job didn’t need done, that everything was just right. But it isn’t.
Thus, great leaders don’t choose their jobs; the jobs choose them.
The woods are burning.
Hatuey hath spoken.
Alf Baird.
Geography of Scotland is good,
The geography of Wales and Ireland are good.
The geography of England is good,
It is the “political subservience” of the “rolled down underdog” in the devolved colonial government national parties that is extremely unwarranted that they have abandoned shame of being Scots, Welsh or Irish and want to be English, for money.
This so called select Celtic race group would abandon the future family history and granny for money, and who would vote for someone they expect to trust that displays turn- coat characteristics.
I am not voting or participating to vote for the people Managing the Colonial parliament in Scotland, or the members in it,
If those MSPs continue to go to Westminster and settle down.
When they stop going down to Westminster and earn my Sovereign respect and withdraw then I will start voting for them,
Sovereign Scots do have the right to Choose whom governs them, and I am acting legally upon my claim of right and the right to self determination to not choose anyone in that Colonial parliament team of shisters.
I am hoping that over 50% of Scots who want independence will eventually trend the same way,
Because that in of itself is the making of the Sovereign voice of Scotland.
Football clubs in Scotland are being bought over by the Americans.
That’s Dundee; Dundee United; Aberdeen and St Johnstone have announced an American takeover.
“Taylor Swift – gees some dosh!” – Motherwell FC advert for investment.
I agree with Alf Baird in everything he says. I’ve had his book on my shelf for two years. I’ve picked it up at last. Because I feel like he knows what he’s talking about.
Like the Discovery Land Company – that’s taken over the Taymouth and Glenlloyne estates – we know that the natives are being locked out.
Just like Flamingo land wants to come and build its theme park on Loch Lomond.
Alf – We know that Flamingos are not native birds to Scotland. We know that they are a non native, and invasive species that has no place on the Bonny Banks of Loch Lomond. Like the Discovery Land Project! It’s all very interesting stuff.
Stuart Campbell I will listen to your show right now. You’re a class act that speaks the truth. Thanks for everything you do.
Alf Baird.
On a serious note,
If Scotland wants to retrieve its Sovereignty from the Colonial management parliament and Westminster parliament, that is the beginning,
A legal non-violent way to display our right to self determination and uphold the Claim of Right. And to prove we hold our Sovereignty in Scotland,
If we do not recognise the system or “them” the politicians. It would take great effort by Sovereign Scots but it can succeed and would grow,
It may take a few elections, local and non local, but eventually they would be out,
Unfortunately according to Angus Robertson – we’re a lost tribe of another group of people – so we don’t stand much of a chance of reclaim the estates.
Kate Forbes has turned us into a free port for 25 years.
She’s failed to spend the 450 million euros on the Scottish people. Meanwhile she’s not got the money for the 200 teachers about to lose their jobs.
She’s not got enough money. Tomorrow at First Ministers questions – I’m rooting for that lightweight figure – Douglas Ross to tear into Swinney.
Swinney was the economics minister before Kate Forbes in the last 6 years. Both of them must be made to answer why we’re handing back 450 million to the globalist EU.
You know what I’m saying?
*Flamingos are not natives – just like the English! *
How many years Alf would you suggest someone lives in Scotland before being classed as a native?
I have a suggestion for the natives. I may have stated it before.
Ban cash offers from English settlers for Scottish homes. Natives first. Can we do this with powers of the Scottish Parliament. Can we reclaim the estates with the powers of the Scottish Parliament?
By natives – I reckon 25 plus years of residency in Scotland – what’s your thoughts Alf? Will I continue to read the book? Absolutely!
– aye mia, I think that’s what I said, was I not clear?
the ww2 fetish propaganda was a bit much today and was going to post a long one, but … to keep it short :
they make such a big deal about ww2 because if you ignore a lot of things, then it might just be the one conflict where britain, might, arguably, have been the good guys, since the nazis were, arguably, worse than us … but don’t ask the irish, the indians, much of africa etc about all that as they are biased, nor should you dig into the origins of it all too closely, or examine too closely what actually happened. Enjoy the foma riddled fructose substitute for critical thinking so eagerly peddled :
… yeah so, this guy, hitler, right, was like, um, “far right”, like an incel on 4chan, and he decided to be majorly antisemitic by killing all the jews and britain and amerika invaded europe to liberate the camps, then we made isr_ael as like a “safe space” for the jews … soap, lampshades, yada yada yada … and this is why we must support (the current thing), “scythia” and take the vaccine and don’t be racist …
nor should you point out that d day was a sideshow compared to the eastern front, and the people most responsible for defeating the evil nazis were … (stop that, that’s enough of that)
in case you think the empire was ever the good guy, or were wondering why the resentful chinese hate us for our freedoms, have a read at this
https://dissidentvoice.org/2024/06/britains-century-long-opium-trafficking-and-chinas-century-of-humiliation-1839-1949/#more-150838
remember this when some anglo twat tries to tell you the empire was some humanitarian operation, that barely broke even.
Who within the snp is behind this endless series of car crashes.
You said it Shug – Kate Forbes is behind the free ports plan.
What we need is our own plan – Salmond says a constitutional convention – we need to know what this looks like.
What’s the plan, what’s the venue – the SECC? Glasgow? The convention? Everyone’s invited? How will it look. What’s the dates?
We need to create a plan to challenge SNP economics. We need to bring everyone together or willing partners who want to create the independent Scottish state. We need a plan. The Alba Party folk need to spell it out to us normies what a constitutional convention can achieve – Will we hear about it soon?
Thanks.
We need big Eck on the telephone – Calling Alex Salmond.
Where’s the constitutional convention plan? What will it look like? What’s the venue? Who’s invited? What will we call it?
SECC Glasgow – could it take place there? Will we be signing pledges like the COP 26 conference? Will the businesses that turn up be getting preferential treatment in an Independent Scottish state?
Fire the starting gun.
It’s difficult not to think that the SNP has gone full Brit-Nat saboteur and are complicit in a grand Whitehall plan to prevent the resource impoverished England from becoming a full-blown disaster-zone, by desperately holding on to the energy-resources possessed by Scotland.
Confused
Good article. Funnily enough the man on my telly mentioned the stain of Opium on China just a few weeks back & why they’ll never forget & it’ll never be allowed to happen again. Think it was in relation to the absolute arse the yanks made of their recent visit there trying to throw their weight around about China doing so well & to just stop making them look so shit lol
Good to have a timeline. Blimey – what arrogant Satanic barstewards. They do love their famines & cleansing eh?
“The United States Institute of Peace” someone was surely taking the piss coining that title..
Did well to to find 45 minutes worth of podcast out of this election. Only the wee parties bother with policies now. The main ones are part of the same elitist clique and I assume all share the same opinions.
Well said Stuart Campbell: “John Swinney is Homer Simpson at the nuclear power plant, hitting all the buttons!” Haha!
Kier Starmer – I’m not the tories vote for meee.
As a result the tories might make net gains in Scotland – I agree with you Stuart.
We need an SNP wipe out.
Agree with everything you’ve said about Alex Salmond.
Farage will be good for British politics – he’s coming to destroy the tory party.
We need the alba party to absolutely annihilate the SNP. Salmond is a gentleman. A true hero and legend. He owes the SNP nothing. He needs to tear them apart now.
Remember the movie Wargames? Ok, it hasn’t lasted well, but Joshua was the supercomputer with the power to launch the USA’s nuclear missiles. It could examine all variables, do the calculus and pursue the most logical tactic for victory in a nuclear war.
Of course in the movie, they lost control of it, and the world faced Armageddon on the throw of a dice, and it took the genius of a young prodigy hacker to play the supercomputer a game of tic-tac-toe, to “teach” the computer futility of a no-win scenario.
Right now, Scotland is in a no-win scenario, and needs its own Joshua supercomputer to work out that every possible permutation of seats in any conceivable Westminster Government, in every analysis of the numbers, in every conceivable scenario, Scotland loses.
Jeezo, 56 out of 59, that’s 95% of the Scottish seats were SNP, and the result didn’t even send a ripple through the swamp because the SNP itself had already been castrated and nullified before the count even started. We elected eunuchs.
There is NO possible victory for Scotland in Westminster, because there is no victory possible.
If Scotland wants a true Scottish Government, then every vestige of UK Government, down to it’s last grasping tendril, must be rejected and purged from our nervous system, and Scotland’s first government in over 300 years needs to be built from first principles and the Scots Laws of our Land.
Only SALVO is talking in such terms.
Not rebellion, insurrection or violence in the streets mind you, but the “reckless extremism” of defending Scotland’s Constitutional integrity in International Treaty, Domestic Law, and International Law.
Take a moment to think about that. Are we so far through the looking glass that seeking a judgement to ratify probity and justice are “radical” pursuits?
It’s like the Jacobite “Rebellion” again. Those who stand firm to defend the obdurate probity of law over political chicanery are branded “rebels”.
SALVO should not be branded cranks expelled to the periphery of the Campaign, SALVO and Liberation are the very essence of where the fight properly is. Independence begins and ends with the robust defence of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. All roads lead to this.
@Breeks 5.46am;
Very well said! Very well said indeed!
Has this blog been sabotaged? The comments aren’t showing, most annoying.
Alf Baird @ 8@17pm
“… the leadership group grows out of communion and dialogue with the people.”
But how is dialogue with the people of Scotland to be achieved, Alf, when the main public channels of communication necessary for the widespread dissemination of information are mostly blocked to the liberation movement?
I’ve spoken with a good few ordinary Scots from various walks of life over the past several months in casual conversation and gently broached, through some circuitous route, the subject of Scotland’s colonisation.
Most readily agreed with the notion that Scotland might, effectively, be a colony even if generally their concept of what a colony is was very basic as was any sense of their colonised status – although I felt that in a fair few there was some nugget of instinctive awareness.
Anecdotally, I think many Scots sense there’s something wrong with Scotland, but they are confused as to what that something actually is, having been lied to for so long and led to believe that everything wrong with Scotland is their own fault.
Breeks & Xaracen
& Now would be the perfect time to do it.
The tectonic plates are shifting. The American Empire is over & the UK is going down with it. The world is sick of colonising warmongering interference & military threat & have put aside their differences to co-operate with each other to shun them out of being relevant.
They’re predicting the UK will be the first to shrink.
They’ll try stitch up our energy before hand cause mad uncle Sam is on the warpath..
Alan C @ 07.56.
If you see this post, then no, Alan.
@Breeks 5.46 am
The problem the folks at Salvo and Liberation Scotland have is that if they don’t want to be regarded as cranks, they have to be able to demonstrate a number of things:
1) mass support;
2) support for their plans from substantial numbers of heavyweight legal, constitutional and political figures both in Scotland and abroad;
3) a demonstrable majority of Scots supporting their chosen extra parliamentary route to independence rather than using a referendum or plebiscitary elections;
4) a mechanism which reflects and is accepted by the majority in 3 above which is representative of “the community of the realm” and can serve as an alternative to using a binary referendum or a victory in plebiscitary elections.
So far it’s a hard fail on all 4. Maybe it can work, but I’ve seen no evidence that the plans outlined will result in the achievement of independence faster than the alternatives: indeed I’m pretty convinced it could actually defer it for longer.
The question for Salvo and others is, if they can’t convince other independence supporters that their plans are realistic, what hope do they have of convincing Scottish unionists, British nationalists and the international community whose support they are going to require for recognition?
Alternative routes proposed in the past like the Scottish Digital Covenant failed to reach escape velocity: what makes Salvo and Liberation Scotland any different?
Breeks @ 5:46 am
“If Scotland wants a true Scottish Government, then every vestige of UK Government, down to it’s last grasping tendril, must be rejected and purged from our nervous system”
Yes, and more generally throughout a colonial society, postcolonial theory is quite clear in that ‘nothing of the colonizer’s is appropriate for the colonized’ (Memmi); this includes all his institutions, education, media, his culture and language, and most especially his ideology and values which pervades everything – for in a colonial society ‘only the values of the colonizer are sovereign’.
@Confused says: 5 June, 2024 at 11:30 pm
were wondering why the resentful chinese hate us for our freedoms, have a read at this
https://dissidentvoice.org/2024/06/britains-century-long-opium-trafficking-and-chinas-century-of-humiliation-1839-1949/#more-150838
Why don’t you go and atone for your part in the Opium Wars somewhere else, and leave the rest of us alone? Or maybe learn a bit about the synthetic opioids epidemic, coming to your street soon. What you gonna do when that happens – march up and down with a placard saying it’s karma and our dead Scottish kids had it coming?
d day was a sideshow compared to the eastern front, and the people most responsible for defeating the evil nazis were …
That’s right, the same people most responsible for starting WW2, by signing the non-aggression pact and divvying up Eastern Europe between Germany and Orc Central.
BREEKS.
«Not rebellion, insurrection or violence in the streets mind you, but the “reckless extremism” of defending Scotland’s Constitutional integrity in International Treaty, Domestic Law, and International Law»
By so ruling out direct popular pro-activity you put a ball and chain on the «politics».
Relying on «law», made by rulers to suit rulers not by the people is equally restrictive.
The of Iraq in the year of my birth by USA & *England* was illegal in international law, but it nevertheless went ahead. Neither has been arraigned.
Go ahead, feed the lawyers.
So our LA is pushing to drop corroborating evidence in rape trials, which would ultimately lead to the same happening in non-sex based criminal trials. Nine top Scottish judges are currently deliberating on it, if they give it the nod many more claims of rape will see the accused in the docks quicker, and if the LA manages to have juryless trials on these sex based crimes as well which she is pushing for, then the conveyor belt laden with accused folk will speed up considerably, justice might not always be served but the case loads will diminish quicker.
Meanwhile incompetent LA’s seem to haunt Scotland, as we yet again fork out for their inane actions.
“A former Rangers director has been awarded more than £500,000 after suing Scotland’s top law officer for malicious prosecution.
Imran Ahmad was among seven arrested in relation to fraud stemming from the club’s administration more than a decade ago. The charges against six were dropped and the seventh – Craig Whyte – were cleared at trial. Former lord advocate James Wolffe KC later apologised to Mr Ahmad and Charles Green, saying they should not have been prosecuted.
A letter from Solicitor General Ruth Charteris KC to the Criminal Justice Committee announced the final damages to be awarded to Mr Ahmad on Wednesday. He will be due £517,755.61 for the malicious prosecution following a decision from Lord Harrower on Tuesday. Mr Ahmad had been seeking £60 million, but according to the decision, he offered to settle the case in 2019 in exchange for an apology.”
Andy Ellis
Ignored
says:
6 June, 2024 at 9:26 am
@Breeks 5.46 am
The problem the folks at Salvo and Liberation Scotland …. they have to be able to demonstrate a number of things:
No, actually they don’t.
Breach a Treaty, break a Law, and the consequences are binary.
Popular opinion will not make the guilty innocent nor the innocent guilty. Nor will it un-breach a broken Treaty, nor indeed restore a Treaty that’s been dissolved.
The UK’s crooked and rigged democracy will not prevail in this fight.
The face of the UK future for Scotland is Farage or some other clone.
Smug, arrogant, conceited and anglo personified.
Get angry Scotland, very angry.
@Alf Baird says:6 June, 2024 at 9:28 am
‘nothing of the colonizer’s is appropriate for the colonized’ … including … his culture and language, and most especially his ideology and values which pervades everything
Loving it, Professor Baird.
I’m thinking that once you impress on enough Sovereign Scots that they will have to learn to read and write a new language, and ditch the value system they have happily used their entire lives, your supporters will dwindle to insignificance.
I’m thinking Mao’s cultural revolution myself, and the streets running ankle deep in blood.
But you keep it up.
Maybe though, as an indication of your own conviction in the beliefs you want to ram down everybody else’s throats, you could just stop posting here (and everywhere else) in the “coloniser’s language”.
Post everything in Scots from now on. Show us you mean business.
Labour’s leader in Wales, and FM Vaughan Gething lost a vote of no-confidence yesterday, he’s been plagued by scandal during his short time in office.
The vote was non-binding even so Gething is adamant that he won’t stand down as FM of Wales.
Breeks at 5:46
Wells said, I couldn’t agree more. The combination of the SNP dropping self determination as a policy and the media and unionist parties continuing to portray the SNP as the party obsessed with independence means there’s no win for us here.
If the SNP are punished for their record in either parliament and/or dropping indy, the unionists’ anti-scotland message wins. If the SNP survive and maintain a respectable presence, they’ll take that as a win for not chasing Scotland’s independence, and will never pursue it again.
I can’t get my head around when people on blogs insist that the SNP need to win in order to keep the dream alive. It’s like socialists insisting that Starter will deliver a socialist paradise. When the same people wax lyrical about Kate Forbes like she’ll save the day, don’t they remember how little enthusiasm for independence she had when she was running for leader?
I’ve been thinking for some time now that whatever the mechanism, whatever it is that brings the treaty of union to an end, it won’t come from a political party, probably not from politicians at all, or from any kind of totemic leader. There’s a lot of good ideas at work, salvo being one of them, and they’ll reach places that a sound bite from a nob in a suit won’t touch.
TURABDIN
That’s cause the United Nations is as corrupt as fck. It serves the interests & wants of only one country & that’s what it was set up to do.
That’s heading for a fall too just as the league of Nations did before it when some countries thought they were more equal than others. This whole G-azz business has blown the whole cesspit wide open & shone a spotlight on the double crossing yanks & Isrs cartel.
As Alf says above – the colonisers & their institutions are rank rotten & served only the interests of the coloniser & that’s exactly what we see in the UN & international courts.
Who’d have thought it’d take months to make a ruling on mass murder of civilians FFS!
@Breeks says:6 June, 2024 at 9:46 am
The UK’s crooked and rigged democracy
Aw. Democracy not giving Breeks what he wants, so it’s toys out the pram time.
There was always time for Scotland to make this a plebiscitary election. There was never anything stopping Scotland from organising to do so.
Apart from apathy.
The same holds true for the HR GE 2 years from now.
I don’t have to wonder what the excuses for the apathy will be in 2026 – they’ll be exactly the same ones as now.
Just as “Somebody (else) should do something!” will continue to be the cry.
Did anyone see that clown King Charles king of England standing with a chest full of medals, he was akin to propped by Mi6/SIS a tinpot dictator on parade you know the ones they’ve never seen action but have a medals on their chests for every past conflict.
Its right we commemorate those fought and died in WWII, the West played its part, but R-uu-sk-i-a did most of the heavy lifting and chased the WWII Kna–ttzz–s back to Berlin and defeated them.
Today the same west props up KNa–ttzz–iss in U and Is-he–ll, and even though we are commemorating those who fought and died in WWII, the west is trying to start WWIII in U and maybe even West Asia by backing the Zzz–io-M-on-st–ers in their gg-en-oc-de.
C-h-ina is rightfully wary of the west, the west wants it to help break r–u–ss-i-a, so later it can do the same to C-hi–na.
Hatey McHateface @ 9:48 am
“learn to read and write a new language”
Scots isnae a ‘new language’, ye wee daftie! All peoples in self-determination conflict are linguistically divided and Scots are nae different.
Language (and culture) is the basis of our national identity. Language deprivation (‘Linguistic Imperialism’) seeks to change a peoples identity through assimilating them into another culture (hence ‘cultural assimilation’). What did you think made Scots (and many other colonized peoples) think they are British?
Of course, a colonized (i.e. oppressed) people deprived of learning their mother tongue end up with ‘a rusted tongue’ and suffer the consequences of a language divide that is created by the colonizer for his advantage. However, if this is not remedied then assimilation – and hence colonialism – will continue and the oppressed people/culture ‘which is in the process of perishing’, will ultimately perish.
Why did you think Scots fowk are nivver lairnt thair ain Scots langage in the schuils? It is because the imperial power kens that ‘language is a very powerful weapon’. The vast bulk of the independence movement comprises Scots language speakers, those that hold primarily to a Scottish identity only, and who are less assimilated than other natives (e.g. bourgeoisie). Hence the Scots language is a critical determinant of independence, as explained in my book Doun-Hauden, and summarised here:
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/04/paper-two-the-determinants-of-independence/
Did anyone see the ‘Scottish ‘Lib Dem PB last night?
Apart from NOT being about anything Scottish it was , in my humble if erudite opinion, very strange indeed.
Breeks 9:47
Well said.
If there’d to be any ref at all it would be on rejoining only IF there was support, let’s say, 70%+ & consistently over say 20 yrs.
That sounds like a good plan LOL
A democratic vote doesn’t trump an international treaty or change it’s contents.
TURABDIN
“The of Iraq in the year of my birth by USA & *England* was illegal in international law, but it nevertheless went ahead. Neither has been arraigned.”
It went ahead because the USA is in every country, holding everyone’s reserves, installing puppet regimes, installing military bases & imposing sanctions & economic warfare on those who disobeyed orders.
Any ruling by the UN was toothless. Countries had no powers to impose the rules cause their countries had been neutered.
That order is changing as those same countries are now defying sanctions & teaming up with each other, despite differences. There’s strength in numbers, to take the bullies toys away & the bully doesn’t like it. It’s hegemony is over.
The SNP has not been a party of independence since the ‘14 referendum. The sturgeon took over and it has been one continuous negative from the persecutions of prominent independence activists to woke to finances…… Odd.
We are talking about independence for our country not planning permission to build a bungalow, there is no passion,fervour, commitment, initiatives or policies to deliver freedom for our country. To the MSM Scotland and the SNP do not exist.
It’s sheer unbridled contempt. But that contempt is inspired by the SNP itself by demonstrating its total disinterest in independence ,no walking out and disrupting Westminster every time Scotland has a grievance just primary school tantrums.
Yesterday I watched an example of that contempt yesterday when prince william confirmed that the uk is indeed ENGLAND when delivery his DDay anniversary speach. He spoke of the soldiers that never came home and that “ they remain there in a foreign field that is forever England”.
What an insult to the rest of the uk countries whose brave non English soldiers perished. The fool didn’t seem to realise what he was saying, or maybe he did, after all he needed to remind the world that it was England that saved the world.
Republicofscotland
They’ve a nerve to even show their face considering who they were cavorting with last week in Chuckys parliament & not for the first time either.
Joe Glebton had them bang to rights. The WW2 war whores & the armchair Walter Mitty’s who couldn’t give a shiny shite for the war dead. It’s all pantomime amongst the elite who probably never seen a days action fresh out of private school & jettisoned into a high rank who wouldn’t have pissed on the riff raff schemies if they could avoid it.
Arguing for independence right now is playing into the slippery hands of the SNP and on a certain level is tantamount to encouraging people to vote SNP. I won’t be doing that until after the election.
If comments below the line on here amount to anything worth worrying about and those making them really care about independence, the priority should be to remove the biggest and most immediate obstacle in our way…
TURABDIN
Ignored
says:
6 June, 2024 at 9:39 am
Go ahead, feed the lawyers.
The Lawyer who defends Scotland’s Constitutional integrity will get so well fed he’ll make Blowhard Blackford look positively waif-like.
You have a very low opinion of Lawyers TURABIN, which is understandable, but just imagine a Tour de Force like this defending Scotland’s interests and contesting the exploitation…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LACse017-A
Bring it on.
I await James Kelly’s breathless headline declaring a new dawn for the SNP under John Swinney.
Ipsos, Westminster voting intention, field work 31 May – 4 June, Scottish sub-sample (88 weighted), (change from 2019).
Con 24% seats 1 (-5)
Lab 17% seats 1 (=)
LibDem 7% seats 2 (=)
SNP 44% seats 53 (+5)
Is SNP Fanboy stupid enough to pick up a sub 100 population sample and run with it?
‘Hatey Fuckers & Co’ say nobody in Scotland does anything and then when someone does something they say that’s rubbish.
They are cranks, fringe nutters, moonhowlers, always waiting for somebody else to do something.
‘The Hatey Fuckers & Co’ hate everything. Hate it when you do nothing hate it when you do something.
Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate you!
PS What do you call someone who always waits for someone else to do something?
I’m thinking maybe prisoner, colonised, brain washed something along those lines.
I’ve had it with the ‘Hatey Fuckers & Co’ also ‘I’m over the rainbow’
I’m off to listen to Stu on the podcast. I wasted a lot of time yesterday fiddling about with Spotify.
Then aLurker came along with the perfect solution
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-elite-and-me/#comment-2857173
Cheers aLurker.
It’s on my waterproof ipod now so I can listen when I’m in the shower and when I go swimming.
Podcasts are the best. More podcasts please.
Andy Ellis said;
“Alternative routes proposed in the past like the Scottish Digital Covenant failed to reach escape velocity: what makes Salvo and Liberation Scotland any different?”
What makes it different is that it doesn’t depend on the vagaries of a popular support so vulnerable to media manipulation, and to Westminster’s presumption of superiority. It depends instead solely on the formal legal and constitutional provenance of their arguments under Scotland’s guaranteed Constitution and unceded Sovereignty, and thus the demonstration of the corresponding lack of such provenance of the integrity of lawful authority of Westminster’s governance of Scotland and the Union.
That makes it a legal matter and not a political or democratic matter. A court will decide, and if it finds for Salvo/Liberation, the Union’s parliament will at the very least lose all authority over the entire Scottish half of the Union. It will also be liable to fines, reparations, and compensations.
Hey there, twatty mcmainface :
I used to read the “Warlord” comic as a kid, but I moved on from it, you should too. Move on, John, the truth will set you free.
If you did then you would realise what a nauseating spectacle the current rituals are, and also what a tragic and pivotal part the act of union was in all of it.
You should also realise that as time passes the lying about it all gets much worse.
@Xaracen 11.25 am
So you and those who believe in “cunning plans for indy” would have us believe that for over 300 years, no Scottish or other lawyer, constitutional expert or politician has ever managed to discern this novel route to attaining independence or dissolving the union?
Which court is going to decide this, the UK Supreme Court presumably? Ah hae ma doots!
Those clinging to the idea that legal and constitutional leger de main will deliver the independence Scots were too lilly livered to vote for need to come up with a stronger case and some real answers to the question of demonstrating majority support for their quixotic views.
Ah ! wee Slava Johnny Main must be back from serving on the Busby Front – I hear the fighting over a parking space was fierce , hope he didn’t get his ” I Heart Zelly ” y-fronts wet in the melee ; on the plus side a cat stuck up a tree did get rescued – phew !
So wee Johnny informs us it woz the Reds wot started WW11 , nothing at all to do with an insane failed artist leading his country to mass psychosis and turning large parts of the European Continent into a charnel house in pursuit of an Aryan fantasy ( bet wee Johnny has a certain respect for this endeavour ) .
I wonder if it hadn’t been for him being fully engaged issuing commands from his bunker in E.K he would have started a campaign to right the outrage of Hapless Yousaf’s rise to F.Mdumb he was monotonously , continuously wittering about .
Aye , that must be the reason , how else explain why someone who regularly castigates others for what he sees as their inaction on particular issues done absolutely fuck-all to correct the issue that vexxed him so ?
Meanwhile , fellow pipe n slippers * warrior * Private Ellis is still awful concerned what the ” International Community ” will say if Scotland dares to take control/responsibility of/for it’s own destiny . Aye , fuck , we wouldn’t want to upset the likes of smirking psycho-troll Ursula Von de Leyen , Drooling Joe B , U.S.T.O jannie Stoltenberg n aw the rest of the FUCKING DEMENTED GLOBALIST CLOWNS currently racing us towards Hell .
Scotland has EVERYTHING it needs to thrive – with or without the imprimatur of some amorphous ” International Community ” : except ( so far ) leaders with the requisite balls to do whatever is necessary to achieve this end .
BTW if/when Scotland reasserts it’s stolen Independence and has full command of it’s vast resources other countries will be falling over themselves to do business with us .
Not being ” recognised ” by blah blah n his mate blah is just one more fictive faux-obstacle thrown-up by people too timid to countenance our country putting it’s Independence ahead of any other concern .
“B-b-b-baby, you just ain’t seen na-na-nothin’ yet.” (Bachman-Turner Overdrive, 1974).
The confiscation of Scott Ritter’s passport is the dumbest move yet by the State Department.
Even a rookie Lawyer will get this rapidly overturned. There’s already a test case; Aptheker v’s Secretary of State 1964.
The Libertarian / Left proto-alliance will be all over this. Ritter’s voice will be magnified tenfold.
An entirely predictable application of the Streisand effect, yet the brain dead’s in Foggy Bottom didn’t see this coming.
That’s funny. I thought he was Scottish. Oft have I seen him sporting a kilt and wasn’t his grand mummy Scottish? With those credentials he would have been allowed to play for the Scottish footy team.
@Breeks, re supercomputers, this could be why we have not heard much about Murrell, they are gene splicing his brain into the camper van and Windows Vista to wreak a terrible revenge on all who crossed he/him/it.
https://archive.ph/C9cLX
Robert Hughes
KMAO!
Ellis,
Aye, a country seeking its liberation will be sure to ask the fcking prison guards to rule on the escape route first!
What planet are you on? Sit down. Yer true colours are showing. Whits wrong? You’ll never be a part of it with yer whackadoo notions & walking polster on whit Scots think.
Is it gnawing at you? Lol
You remind me of Enfields character “Only me! Nah, nah, nah…you don’t wanna do it like that, ya bigoted cranks” as you completely take over events.
Ah well, since we’re heading back to “wir ain mither tongue” territory again, and I have no dialect in which to post, nor, indeed, do I know any Pictish (I recall some recent posts suggesting an independent land north of England be named Pictland) nor even Gaelic, I can say only to those here who seek independence;
“Eg elski teg.”
Brilliant podcast!
I was riveted!
I am definitely not what anyone would describe as a political anorak and I very often fast forward on talks about politics.
I never fast forward when Alex Salmond speaks. I sat riveted for three hours when he spoke at the Holyrood enquiry. He always holds my attention.
Well done guys you are in the same category as Alex Salmond.
You held my attention & also made me laugh. The 48 minutes & 11 seconds passed in a flash and I would have been happy to listen to another 48 minutes & 11 seconds.
PS Not being a political anorak the reference to ‘the tipping point’ went way over my head but I’m going to do some research to find out more.
Someone on here might explain it to me, they usually do.
Anything to do with the SNP ending up in the tip?
Andy Ellis
6 June, 2024 at 9:26 am
‘The problem the folks at Salvo and Liberation Scotland have is that if they don’t want to be regarded as cranks, they have to be able to demonstrate a number of things’
Alba didn’t demonstrate any of your 4 points in March 2021, Andy, yet you and I were among the first in line to sign up to become founder members. I don’t consider myself as a crank.
‘I’ve seen no evidence that the plans outlined will result in the achievement of independence faster than the alternatives’
What alternatives? The Indy political movement is fragmented beyond belief, with each faction going in different directions. And there is no possibility of a reunited movement getting anywhere near 50% without coalescence with the remaining SNP supporters, who, even in their death throes, still vastly outnumber the combined membership of all pro-Indy parties.
Alba, ISP, Salvo, and related organisations are all in their infancy, having come into being as the scale of SNP betrayal and incompetence became apparent. It’s going to be a hard slog to become a united Indy again, but if Alba and ISP deserve a bit of slack to develop, doesn’t the same apply to Salvo, the youngest of the three?
Of course, there is no “international community” today.
There’s Team Genocide and a few weirdos that went on ‘Leadership Initiative’ programs in Washington, but the vast majority of the world wants nothing to do with the freak show.
Anyone that supports what the so-called West is doing in the world today is a certifiable fruitcake and in any other context would be forced to undergo therapy.
I see that Vlad has called their bluff and is proposing to arm the “West’s” enemies (victims) with rockets. What’s good for the goose, right?
I would expect this to result in peace breaking out across the world, because Team Genocide generally only attacks those that can’t hit back.
Blood and irony…
“That’s funny. I thought he was Scottish. Oft have I seen him sporting a kilt and wasn’t his grand mummy Scottish? With those credentials he would have been allowed to play for the Scottish footy team.”
He’s not Scottish & his granny was by accident. She’d hee haw chance of being inline until an abdication forced otherwise.
Yes Blimp, yer king reminded me of Idi Amin who was also festooned with gongs.
Enjoyed the podcast by the way.
Hatuey
Aye, team NATO only knows how to win against women, children & unarmed civilians.
They’ve zero chance this time so they’re reaching for the nukes.
I dunno what they think they’ll achieve. What’s left would only shun them even more.
You were robbed! Your parents shouldn’t have sent you to posh school. 🙂
I see Alf’s point about “wir ain mither tongue” although my mithers tongue was Gaelic.
I think what he’s saying is ‘wir mither tongue’ wasnae British.
I’m surprised that someone from Glasga disnae huv a dialect.
Why do people get so upset about things that aren’t ‘the Queens English’?
Gaelic would probably have been ma mither tongue if they hadn’t taken away my Gaelic reader when I was only at B for brochan.
Ruby
“It’s on my waterproof ipod now so I can listen when I’m in the shower and when I go swimming.”
Oooerr.. getting naked with Stu lol.
I love a good podcast too. Easy listening while on the move. Far better than sitting stationary. Stu should start to host some cause he’d attract no end of guests.
It was interesting to hear what you sound like. Some of the stuff you said from 2014 onwards seemed monstrous and lunatic, to me. Either you’ve calmed down a lot, or you exchanged exhortation with quiet, patient persuasiveness as a way of influencing your audience.
I was in a very small minority in my friends and family when I voted No. My argument was – we could be independent, but NOT with this crowd (the then SNP leadership) – it would be a disaster.
I think I’ve been proved right, but the door is still open as to what happens next. Which is why I still check in here now and then.
Vivian O’Blivion
I have my suspicions it wasn’t Foggy Bottoms call.
Their unhinged attack dogs seem to be taking over their laws & policing of late in direct conflict with their constitution.
If that’s the case, good. A taste of their own foreign interference they helped create.
@Ebok 12.34pm
The point is folk who joined Alba were (for the most part?) expressing their disgust with the SNP in hope that the SNP’s stranglehold on the independence movement could be broken. Obviously that hasn’t worked…or at least not yet. It’s a bit early to tell whether it’s time to write Alba as a party off, still less to decide that party politics, referendums and plebiscitary elections are a pointless, because *reasons*!
The alternatives are pretty well established surely? The referendum rout is an obvious dead end at present given the effective British nationalist veto. Plebiscitary elections are therefore the most plausible alternative: certainly far more likely to result in a positive outcome than the faint hope of a legal/constitutional coup d’etat. If you honestly think that’s the safest bet, crack on…but I wouldn’t waste a fiver on it, still less bet the farm.
The independence movement doesn’t have to be the Borg. We don’t even have to like one another, or agree on specific policies. The only think that DOES have to unite them is a commitment that all votes for pro-independence parties are ipso facto plebiscitary in nature, and that as soon as we achieve 50% + 1 in ANY general election we’ll declare independence. No ifs, no buts.
There are 2 years until the next Holyrood elections. If the SNP hasn’t imploded or been changed by then, it just means we’ve got a longer road to travel. I hope Rev Stu is right and that we can destroy it altogether. Like you I doubt the party is just going to disappear, so the next best alternative is to make sure that its defeat is so bad that it at least accepts that it is only part of the movement, and agrees to co-operate with the other parties.
Salvo can have all the slack it likes. If folk want to punt it as an alternative to using party politics at all, that’s up to them. Even if they just see it as an adjunct to support political parties, there’s nothing stopping them.
We’ve seen elsewhere in places like Catalonia bodies like their Committees for the Defence of the Republic and cultural/civic groups like Omnium play an important part in their struggle. But it hasn’t helped deliver their independence, even if the circumstances are pretty different.
Maybe Salvo and Liberation can become an important part of the movement, but I don’t see why it’s inherently any more plausible that they will become a mass movement and replace or supplant traditional parties in any reasonable timescale than it is that a new coalition of pro-independence parties can do it, and deliver independence more quickly to boot.
Andy Ellis said;
“So you and those who believe in “cunning plans for indy” would have us believe that for over 300 years, no Scottish or other lawyer, constitutional expert or politician has ever managed to discern this novel route to attaining independence or dissolving the union?”
I’m not having you or anyone else believe any such thing; you made that up, and it is nothing more than frantic speculative whataboutery on your part. You want answers for that, do it on your own time.
“Which court is going to decide this, the UK Supreme Court presumably? Ah hae ma doots!”
I think that should be down to Scotland’s Court of Session, because those issues are all about Scotland’s constitution and sovereignty, and I don’t accept that any other court has the competence to consider them. I don’t rate the Supreme Court at all, since its very existence is a direct breach of the Treaty of Union, and is therefore an unlawful creature of the Westminster/English establishment. Your ‘doots’ are your problem, not mine.
“Those clinging to the idea that legal and constitutional leger de main will deliver the independence Scots were too lilly livered to vote for need to come up with a stronger case and some real answers to the question of demonstrating majority support for their quixotic views.”
Why would we need to come up with a stronger case, Mr Ellis? What makes you think that Salvo/Liberation’s legal and constitutional case will be too weak to stand on its own merits?
And perhaps you could explain why you want us to use alternative methods that are so obviously vulnerable to the legal and constitutional leger de main of the faux authority of a bogus Union? And what is remotely sensible about having to demonstrate majority support for what is clearly a legal matter?
Did you ever answer Dans question on what happens when a plebiscite vote wins & is told to GTF?
Holyrood is an administration. An extension of Westminster. It has hee-haw authority to demand anything. Viceroy Jack is it’s mouthpiece. Not a political party.
What’s yer grand plan then? Bark at the moon for the international community to recognise a glorified council election? Lol!
@Xaracen 1.34pm
Dude! You started it with your unicorns and rainbow assurances that there’s an extra parliamentary legal/constitutional route. Too late to whinge now that your mouth is writing cheques your brain can’t cash. You’re the one positing that there isn’t a political or democratic route, but a legal matter to be settled in the courts.
Feel free to cite the opinions of some Scottish lawyers on your cunning plan: we’ll wait. The last time Sara Salyers crossed swords with Roddy Dunlop from memory there was a worldwide shortage of Savlon for months afterwards.
As for you not accepting the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, I’m sure they’ll be devastated, but learn to live with it.
Whether Salvo/Liberation’s case stands on its own merits will indeed have to be seen. Doubtless when it is found to be without merit the usual suspects will reject the result, say the courts are rigged, yadda, yadda. It will achieve precisely nothing unless it’s backed by the majority: where’s the beef Xaracen?
If you can persuade more than a rag tag bunch of moonhowlers of your case that this is purely a legal matter and can be decided in court rather than by a majority of Scots expressing their desire for independence at the ballot box, then crack on.
@Ruby
I can’t remember what the podcast said was a tipping point. Could this be it?
Nigel Porridge making a splash.
(PS The audience knew what they were getting with the billboard.
“Much ado about No thing”)
“With polls already indicating a potential worst-ever election outcome for the Tories, Farage’s influence could be the tipping point. Richard Tice, the leader of Reform UK, suggested that Farage’s return could propel the party’s support into the mid-teens, dangerously close to the Conservatives’ declining numbers.”
I seem to remember Roddy Dunlop admit he wasn’t a constitutional expert & had no time to give it any more time than a nursery glance.
Hardly surprising revelation from a Kings council. His own position being on a shoogly peg an all.
Turkey’s don’t tend to vote for Christmas – especially well paid ones. Sure, SNP had it’s very own Cherry if we wanted legal opinion but she looks to be out the same gravy bus.
*Cursory
Tho nursery works too lol.
@Geri
Ignored says:
6 June, 2024 at 1:37 pm
Did you ever answer Dans question on what happens when a plebiscite vote wins & is told to GTF?
Why would that be any worse than if they said GTF after a referendum, whether legal or wildcat? Or indeed after a ruling from the court that the union had been dissolved?
If the Scots as a people are such a bunch of toom tabards that they meekly accept being told no in that situation, then nobody else is going to impose Scottish independence on our behalf.
Our Irish cousins didn’t take no for an answer, but I doubt many Scots today would relish their route to independence, or be too happy if the result was a partitioned Scotland.
In the end whichever route results in independence being achieved it has to rest on the majority of people in Scotland refusing to recognise the authority of the British nationalist state.
So…..If a majority of Scots vote for pro-independence parties in a general election which those parties specifically label as plebiscitary, and Westminster refuses to recognise the result, it’s up to the majority to take whatever action is necessary to make independence happen, which of course is a good reason to hope that by that time we have a convincing majority.
I doubt Westminster has either the resources or the political will to impose direct rule by force. This isn’t Ireland in 1921, but again if Scots cave in to British nationalist threats of war, violent suppression, the jailing of independence supporters, then they probably don’t deserve independence in the first place.
Our ancestors are famous for writing to the Pope:
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
I doubt many of them would be impressed with our leaders 300 years ago, our current leadership, or indeed with those ordinary Scots too feart to put an X on a ballot paper.
@Geri Ignored says:
6 June, 2024 at 2:04 pm
I seem to remember Roddy Dunlop admit he wasn’t a constitutional expert & had no time to give it any more time than a nursery glance.
I’d still take Roddy KC’s advice over that of a media studies lecturer. In the end however if you and others are so sure of your legal case, have at it. Raise the money, state your case. I’m sure you can find a lawyer who will agree with your view of things.
Of course, if the case goes against you, it’ll be embarrassing, and possibly damaging to the cause, but look on the bright side: when you fail (as you almost inevitably will) there’s still the option of just, you know…doing the work and convincing a majority to vote for it, then not taking No for an answer if the British nationalists aren’t acting in good faith.
Andy, the “rag tag bunch of moonhowlers” you so aptly mention may be less than 1% of the Scottish people, but they post at least 50% of the comments on WoS.
If they ever ran for office under their own label, they’d be lucky to outpoll the Monster Raving Loony Party–as seen by the last by-election (Rutherglen and Hamilton), where their candidate Colette Walker (ISP), got less than 1% of the vote. On the bright side, she DID outpoll “Prince Ankit Love, Emperor of India.”
Ellis
I dunno what game you’d continue playing if it somehow went against us. It’d all be over one way or another eh & there’ll be zero point playing along in the charade any longer.
It’s a win win situation. To find against they’d need to find the exact clause they amended & state names in whose authority cause Scots were never asked & it’s them who are sovereign, not some Muppet in Westminster.
I see Ellis is desperately trying to undermine the FACT that there was no union, that there could be no union because oor ain parliamentarians and lords or even king could not giveaway rightfully that which belonged and still does to the people of Scotland and that is sovereignty.
Even the foreign parliament of Westminster reaffirmed the Scottish Claim of Right several years ago. The idea of the union has been buried deep within the Scottish psyche so much so that many Scots choose to believe that the union does exist, others haven’t read the information that shows the union couldn’t have existed in the first place, 300+ years of being brow beaten from all corners has led many Scots believe that the union exists.
“It is worth noting that, because it is stipulated in the Claim of Right Act, ratified as a condition of the Union itself, the oath of Accession continues to be “required by law” for any legitimate monarch of Scots. This ensures that no monarch had or has the authority to alter or undermine (alienate) the Scottish Crown in which are vested the sovereign rights of the people, the Community of the Realm of Scotland. This is why we can be certain that Queen Anne had no power, (nor had the Scottish Parliament ever pretended to any power),to change the institution passed down from Kenneth McAlpine, to “transfer” the Scottish Crown by merging it with that of another nation, to alter its character or undermine its rights in any way. And if the Crown of Scotland could not merge with that of England, then the kingdoms of England and Scotland could not merge into a single kingdom. Thus, while a single, political and economic state governed by a single, unified Parliament was entirely feasible, what the Treaty of Union envisaged was simply impossible.”
And
“What took place instead was that Scotland was added to the domains of the English Crown, or as the House of Commons Library has it, the English Coronation Oath was “extended to Scotland.” The English Crown was renamed the Crown of Great Britain, later, (1800), styling itself the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and, finally, the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But no matter what name it has adopted, this is precisely the same English Crown institution as it has been from 1066.”
And this.
“Scotland is a nation and voluntarily entered into union with England as a partner and not as a dependency. (Balfour Royal Commission on Scottish Affairs Report 1952-1954, Chapter One, presented to Parliament, July 1954.)
This was a lie in 1952 and it is a lie today. There is no partnership, voluntary or otherwise, without an agreement. There is no agreement between Scotland and England, for abandoning the aim and function of the Treaty and Acts of Union and adopting an alternative course of action: leaving both Crowns and both kingdoms in place and only‘uniting’ them, (in a manner of speaking and in precisely the same way that the other British colonies were ‘united’ with the English Crown), by adding Scotland to the domains listed in the English coronation oath so that England became ‘Crown overlord’ of Scotland.
Annexation is not voluntary. A discarded treaty is not a partnership agreement. ‘A people subject to a foreign sovereignty’ is among the definitions of a dependency, or colony.
The ‘United Kingdom’, as described by the Treaty and Acts of Union and by Scotland’s own Lord Advocate so recently, is a fraud contrived by the Anglo-British state.”
There was no LEGAL union its a lie, we are held hostage by England so it can asset strip our nation and use our lands in any fashion (usually military) for what suits its needs.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/06/02/fictional-kingdom-fraudulent-state-2/
@Andy Ellis 1:47pm;
Your reading comprehension is shit, and your carefully mis-framed answers are even worse, because they don’t justify your position! The only whinger is you demanding answers to your incessant, irrelevant whatabouteries.
You know perfectly well what justifies that ‘extra parliamentary legal/constitutional route’, I’ve explained them here often enough! I even highlighted the key bits in my 11:25am comment, which I note you completely ignored.
“If you can persuade more than a rag tag bunch of moonhowlers of your case that this is purely a legal matter and can be decided in court rather than by a majority of Scots expressing their desire for independence at the ballot box, then crack on.”
And there you go again with yet another whataboutery; it’s not the moonhowlers that need persuaded of our case, it’s the court the case will be presented in.
And we ARE cracking on! 😀
Is that your fantasy Geri?
Nae harm there’s nothing wrong with a good fantasy.
Some poet I think he might have been Spanish said
There is no difference between fantasy & reality.
I’m not sure he was correct. Sometimes fantasy is better.
No! No! No! I’m not talking about you Stu.
Please don’t put me on the naughty step.
Maybe Geri should be sent there for sexually harassing you.
Andy Ellis @ 2:17 pm
“I seem to remember Roddy Dunlop admit he wasn’t a constitutional expert”
Well, he’s no wrang. Scots lawyers, courts and legal practices have been rather put well outside of the international treaty making business since 1707; so this is not so surprising, rendering Scots Law a more ‘domestic’ concern ever since. Scots lawyers will of course have noticed that what they still think of as ‘Scots Law’ has been under some pressure of late and it remains on a shoogly peg whenever an imperial power is keen to diminish any notion that national sovereignty might be found somewhere within a restless colony, e.g. in its highest courts.
The attacks on Scottish sovereignty (and violations of ToU) included: removal of Scotland’s burgh councils, followed by; the Oxbridge-isation of Scotland’s ancient universities, and; the Scottish Kirk’s complicity in the non-crowning charades of numerous new monarchs wha aye refused to take an oath uttering allegiance to the Scots as ‘a sovereign people’.
There is perhaps still a contest on sovereignty to be had between the Imperial state and what remains of ‘Scots Law’; the future of ‘Scots lawyers’ could depend on it.
Alf Baird
I credit my understanding of Scotland’s colonised status to the work you’ve done – I probably wouldn’t have come to that understanding on my own even though I’ve always thought of myself as a Scot and nothing else; despite thaim wee Union flegs on sticks pit in ma hauns an telt tae wave aboot ivery time thon late Queen Elizabeth wis driven past us weans linin’ the streets.
I’m one of those, and I can’t possibly be alone in this, who’ve read your papers and book, Doun-Hauden, and immediately recognised how Scotland fitted the profile of a colonised nation. And indeed how I’d personally been affected.
I didn’t need much persuasion. I recognised the effects described by postcolonial theory on colonised peoples from my own life experiences.
But I’m curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion on yer ain and decided to embark on proving Scotland’s subjugation through your academic research.
I know it’s a bit of a personal question and will understand if it’s one you don’t feel free to answer.
Sam
It’s Porridge Farrage! Get his name right.
No it had nothin’ to do with ‘Porridge Farrage’ it had to do with Scottish Labour going from 58 MPs to 1 due to tipping point. Whoosh 57 MPs in the tip.
I’m considering voting for the ‘Porridge Farrages’ due to their views on ‘sex & gender’.
If they cause the Tories to rebrand and Porridge Farrage becomes Prime Minister of the RUK
what difference will it make.
FYI The Gaelic for porridge is brochan. I learned that before they took away my Gaelic reader. I didn’t learn any C words in Gaelic.
Did you like the bit about the biscuits in the podcasts?
Jammie Dodgers is a great name.
The SNP take the biscuit.
I wonder if there is a transcript of the podcast. I might check out ‘voice to text’ software to see if they’ve manange to get to grips with the Scottish accent.
I don’t what accent I’m using to say ‘Porridge Farrage’. It’s where people say parrage for porridge.
Aye ye ken ‘Parrage Farrage!’
Moon howlin’ totally ’round the bend
Moon howlin, for more than a mile
We’re doing it in style to day
Two howlers, off to see the world
There’s such a lot of world to see
We’re hoping for the rainbow’s end
Totally ’round the bend
My Geri Beri friend
Moon howlin with me
Don’t tell me you can’t guess the tune!
Alf Baird
Ignored
says:
6 June, 2024 at 3:44 pm
There is perhaps still a contest on sovereignty to be had between the Imperial state and what remains of ‘Scots Law’; the future of ‘Scots lawyers’ could depend on it…
Absolutely Alf.
Look no further that Joanna Cherry overturning Boris Johnston’s prorogation of Parliament. The “Prime” Minister of the UK Parliament compelled to abide a ruling by the Court of Session that he could not put “his” Parliament beyond scrutiny of the (sovereign) people, or else he’d face criminal charges of Contempt. A conceptual chain of command, the people above the Queen’s Government, unique to Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Scots Law.
Johnson and his obnoxious John Bull style Attorney General, Geoffrey Cox, given a sharp lesson in Scots Law.
And Cherry’s reward for taking on the Westminster Establishment and full-bore defeating them? To be ostracised and sacked by the Fat Controller. Fkg disgraceful.
A little gem.
The Great Seal of the Realm is a Seal that is used to symbolise the Sovereigns approval of State documents, it is also known as the Great Seal of the United Kingdom ( prior to the treaty of Union) it was known the Great Seal of England,
A Rhetorical Interjection
Rhetoric is everywhere language is, and language is everywhere people are.
To be interested in rhetoric is to be interested in people, and to understand rhetoric goes a long way to understanding your fellow earthlings.
Aristotle, I think, saw something far more valuable to humans than Plato.
He saw that the world was damaged and flawed, and that we don’t live alone in caves among abstract forms as Plato did, but among people.
He saw that humans are not motivated by abstract knowledge and dry facts but by fear and desire and a plethora of other emotions, and that as long as there are people they will spend their entire lives trying to talk each other round.
Like many are trying to do here.
A little gem,
The Great Seal of Scotland was allegally thrown into the River Thames by King James in 1688.
The Great Seal of Scotland is today a reproduction and has been since the time of William 111 and Mary 11 when it was created in England,
The newly invented Seal for Scotland was crudely adapted by inserting a female figure beside the male figure,
When queen Mary died it was returned to a design copy of that that king James had thrown into the river Thames.
The Great Seal of Scotland is a fake.
It was a “must thing to do” for William and Mary as it implied that there was continuation,
The Great but now fake Great Seal of Scotland continuation was guaranteed by the Treaty of Union which provided that….”.A Seal” in Scotland after the Union be always kept and mace use of in all things relating to private Grants, which only concern Commissions, Offices, and private rights within that kingdom,
The Scotland Act 1998 refers to the current Seal of Scotland as ” The Seal appointed by Treaty of Union”, to be kept and made use of in place of the Great Seal of Scotland.
Northcode @ 3:55 pm
“how you arrived at that conclusion on yer ain”
I was trained in and experienced in using ‘grounded theory’ method in my various research works. Here we look for all the evidence we can gather on a subject, including of course theoretical works/perspectives, papers, blogs etc. This generally requires lengthy study, analysis and reflection – Doun-Hauden took 7-8 years to write!
Eventually you get to the stage where you are able to ‘ground out’ a theoretical framework, identifying key aspects/headings, from the mass of data gathered and analysed and which (hopefully) fully explains the complexity of the ‘phenomenon’ in question (i.e. Scottish independence).
My ‘theory’ (and framework) appears to be the only theoretical framework thus far developed on the subject of Scottish independence. We can only assume why that might be. The lack of Scottish academics at higher levels in our institutions may be a factor, understanding the right research/methodological approach, or personal interest another. I consider the work also as a textbook, which should be of interest to those interested in studying the subject.
Anybody may criticize my theory on the subject, assuming they have developed a better one, or created a different theory that might explain the same phenomenon. We seem to be still waiting on that happening. Either academics are disinterested or simply unable to come up with a different or better theory on our ‘condition’, as yet.
That ‘Doun-Hauden’ has not been more widely publicly debated far less dragged through the mud by the media or criticised by senior academics or politicians probably reflects the fact our institutions and elites do not wish to draw attention to it. Its findings, which are not easy to refute (all based on evidence and theory) are in most respects what could be described by an imperial power as ‘anti-colonial literature’; it therefore represents the basis for a subordinated people to better understand the nature and extent of their oppression, and such material is never welcome in a colony.
Northcode @ 16.31.
I’m not quite so sure that many regular posters here are trying to talk each other round, North.
Seems more to me that mostly folk are just endlessly rehearsing their own strongly held viewpoints and reinforcing their beliefs in such opinions.
Interposed of course by personal abuse and random thoughts or stream of conciousness meanderings totally unconnected with Scottish independence.
The tipping point had something to do with FPTP
I always need advice about FPTP, D’hondt & stuff like that.
Distract, contradict, divert, cut & paste, misinform, rinse, repeat.
#AskAndy is the font of all knowledge.
It’s a legal issue, but ‘cos it’s Scotland, it’s not.
Just because. Ok?
A little gem.
The Westminster parliament passed The Treason Act in 1708, section 12 makes it illegally to use a Counterfeit in Scotland.
However Westminster parliament removed the Offence of Treason to Counterfeiting the Great Seal of Scotland in 1861, and only made it a felony,
The law of Conterfeiting the Great Seal of Scotland still remains in Scots Law,
The Westminster parliament Scotland Act 1998 refers to the current Great Seal of Scotland as one to be made use of….. IN PLACE OF THE GREAT SEAL OF SCOTLAND.
Illegal in Scotland,
And could not be used to give royal assent to any laws passed in the devolved parliament.or in Scotland by Westminster since 1708.
But the second and most important issue is that the “FAKE” great seal of Scotland “created and made in England” could not give Scottish Royal authority or assent to the 1707 treaty of Union in Queen Anne’s time period after king James got rid of it,
I have no doubt that Westminster or Englands elite would fake a claim they suddenly rediscovered the Great Seal of Scotland even although a reproduction fake is being used in Scotland today by Westminster and the devolved government.
I am a voter in Edinburgh West and ___ was a member of the SNP for almost 60 years.
I was tempted to write in “ Independence now” and thus spoil my ballot paper , but I now have an independent candidate who shares my wish for independence and other very sensible things!
Sven @ 4:48pm
You make a valid point, Sven.
I am most certainly guilty of ‘stream of consciousness meanderings’ on occasions that are unconnected even with the topic under discussion. I think there’s little chance of my refuting that assertion with any success.
Folk do have the choice to scroll quickly past my dribblings if they choose to, though. And the Rev doesn’t seem to mind them, thus far at least.
But there are times when points and counter points almost form the basis of a mature argument here.
And we need to remember that this place is more a place for social interaction, and yes it can get somewhat ‘boisterous’ at times, than a debating chamber and not strictly limited to proscribed subjects.
There’s lots of good information and links to even more information that I find interesting and useful posted here too. As I’m sure many others do.
And there’s great entertainment to be found in the wit and humour to displayed in some comments.
Having said that, your point about my rhetoric comment is a valid one.
A little gem,
One for “Salvo” to add to their list regards the authenticity of the Treaty of Union.
@Breeks
Ignored 4.19pm
Look no further that Joanna Cherry overturning Boris Johnston’s prorogation of Parliament. The “Prime” Minister of the UK Parliament compelled to abide a ruling by the Court of Session that he could not put “his” Parliament beyond scrutiny of the (sovereign) people, or else he’d face criminal charges of Contempt. A conceptual chain of command, the people above the Queen’s Government, unique to Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Scots Law.
Proof positive surely that despite what the “Scotland as colony” adherents keep telling us, Scots law is capable of effecting change even in the Imperial parliament given the right advice, the right advocate and a strong enough case?
All the true believers in extra-parliamentary action need to do is what Joanna Cherry did and the union is a gonner surely?
If their case is so strong, and as self evident as we keep being airily assured it is, then independence should be shoe-in well before the next Holyrood elections, right?
So….when’s the case going to happen? [insert tumbleweed GIF here].
Seem to be three french war ships each posted in the main entrance to the Clyde, around South Bute.
Anyone know whats going on, has the royal navy run out of ships and we need the french now.
Northcode @ 17.28
Your comments are welcomed by me, North. I totally get, and appreciate, the degree of lattitude our host permits.
I just don’t feel that many regular posters have ever been convinced by opposing arguments (we seldom manage to rise to the level of reasoned debate I fear) no matter how often each reinforces their own convictions to themselves yet (repetitively) again.
Certainly new, well presented views do sometimes, encouragingly, gain converts. Eg your own recent thought on the colonisation of Scotland, though this was not, I believe, an instance of your changing your mind; rather one of a novel aspect of a national condition being presented to you and your being open minded enough to consider and adopt it.
For myself, I have the ‘Ignore’ button for a very few regular posters whose animadversions and constant repititions and can skip past the red boxes.
@ Famous15 5.17pm I presume you are talking about David Henry who was also a very active member for the Scum Nonce Party WHEN they were actually a independence party
David is also very knowledgeable about Scottish matters and if I remember correctly he is also actively involved with the SSRG (Scottish Sovereignty Research Group) which is aligned with SALVO and LIBERATION.SCOT, If it is the same person you are talking about David would make a fierce fighter for independence and if I were in his constituency I would have NO HESITATION in voting for him
I do hope he is NOT standing in Andy Ellis’s constituency he would NOT vote for him because he believes in Scots Sovereignty , the Claim Of Right , and the LEGAL ROUTE, in other words Andy probably thinks he is a MOONHOWLER
Hi Northcode.
You typed,
I am most certainly guilty of ‘stream of consciousness meanderings’ on occasions that are unconnected even with the topic under discussion.
See:-
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-chefs-kiss/#comment-2856990
Shug
They’re out annoying the fck out of China at the moment so we’ll be protected from the experts in surrender LOL
The UK has been put on notice by P that if any NATO country strikes inside Ruskie then expect the same back. All cause Cameron, BoJo & Sunak can’t keep their mouths shut about sending long range weapons to U to attack deeper.
@twatbyname 6.24pm
Au contraire, I will probably vote for David Hendry as he’s standing in my constituency. I only found out he was standing today on twitter. I’ve actually met him at an early Alba party meeting and seconded him for a position, although I can’t claim to know him at all. I presume he’s now left Alba if he’s standing as an independent.
From what I’ve seen he’s not a moonhowler, certainly nothing like some of the dregs in here.
Remarkably few posts in Scots, considering how that is going to be our spoken and written language after Indy.
There’s something notable about the most ardent enthusiasts for the “Scotland as colony” idea pouring out their pain in English – supposedly the language of their coloniser.
Is it fair to point this out?
Is fairness part of the coloniser’s value system, and therefore an alien concept forced on us by our oppressor?
What would Memmi say?
BDTT
Thanks, BDTT. Maybe I should put some of my longer meanderings in the off-topic area. Save folk from having to scroll for half an hour to get past them.
Andy Ellis @ 5:43 pm
“Proof positive surely that despite what the “Scotland as colony” adherents keep telling us, Scots law is capable of effecting change even in the Imperial parliament given the right advice, the right advocate and a strong enough case?”
That particular case as you imply was to do with Brexit and confirming the sovereignty of the Westminster parliament (highly questionable in Scotland); it was nothing to do with Scottish independence or protecting the rights of Scots. One would have thought the priority of a nationalist MP might be to confirm the sovereignty of Scots? Instead she did the opposite, which is hardly a positive contribution to our cause.
Reflecting the Manichean nature of colonialism, your assumptions on ‘Scots law’ also need to be tempered when considering the cases brought against pro-independence figures, lackluster attempts by the SNP Scottish Government (or the Scottish legal establishment) to respect Scots lawful right to self-determination, to seek remedy for ToU violations, or in the protection of Scottish sovereignty.
“Aye, team NATO only knows how to win against women, children & unarmed civilians.”
Geri.
The Den of Thieves aka Nato, and its sidekick the EU is also good at trying to assassinate a Slovakian PM, though even their they’ve f*cked up badly at it.
The Den of Thieves aka Nato, and its EU minion is also good at threatening a Georgian PM with the same fate as the Slovakian PM, because he’s putting his ain folk first. There are 25,000 foreign NGO’s in Georgia.
Expect The Den of Thieves and its Atlanticist laden EU to fund colour revolutions in both countries very soon.
https://thegrayzone.com/2024/05/31/robert-ficos-assassination-western-plotting/
https://thegrayzone.com/2024/05/26/us-eu-color-revolution-georgia/
@Geri
Ignored 6.40pm
Why shouldn’t U use NATO weapons to strike inside R? P has no hesitation using weapons from his mates the islamo-fascist mullahs in Iran, or from Kim Jong Un or Chairman Xi.
P will do SFA about it but whinge. Like so many other red lines, it will disappear when faced with reality. Just wait til all the F-16’s start to arrive. Now P’s benighted populace will get some of what the folk in U have been subjected to since the start of the special military operation.
With luck the populace in R will give P and his mates and enablers the Ceau?escu treatment in due course.
Aye, Cherry was such a disappointment. She could’ve challenged Scotlands Brexit but she didn’t bother her arse.
She defended the monarchy & it’s parliament instead.
@Robert Hughes 11:56
If you really are ignorant about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and how it fired the starting gun for WW2 in Europe, it’s obvious you will be ignorant about much else too.
an insane failed … leading his country to mass psychosis and turning large parts of the European Continent into a charnel house in pursuit of an … fantasy
Wonder what you’re writing about there, eh?
Don’t tell us, the US and EU are making him do it.
Any hoo, congrats. You’re the first on here to hint that maybe Yousaf wasn’t so bad, and far from the first on here to make it clear nothing’s going to happen until leaders with the requisite balls descend from heaven to help you out.
I’m thinking you’re beyond help, but good luck anyway. Do get back to us when you have a scooby about how vast ignorance is going to deliver us full command of Scotland’s vast resources.
Ellis
My, my, straight out the neo con playbook.
NATO can do what it likes. What it can’t do is pretend “it wisnae me” as they hand over weapons, intel, data & the wee guy that enters that shit into a computer. Why it’s almost terrorist & NOT special military operations. They’re also attacking civilians – another cowardly custard act that they excel at .’dont worry guys about the battlefield – get the women & children – it’s all we know how to dae’
& P hasn’t set an red lines. The neo cons assume they have. Huge mistake. He holds press conferences & daily briefings. I can take from yer pist you haven’t listened to a single one. Dullard.
Well the Gr–eat S–ata-n and the EU giving the Kna–ttzi regime in U the go ahead to use weapons given to them by (US) EU etc to fire deep into R–u–sk–ia appears to have backfired.
It looks like the laws of if its good for the goose its good for the gander applies here as P–oot-in, is about give high precision R–u—skian weapons to its own allies and those who want to defend themselves from the Den of Thieves aka Nato and its minion the EU.
The handful of Moonhowlers can’t generate enough interest in their little-viewed blog, (YfS) (“Yours for Stupidity”) so they infest the comments at this site. More than half the comments here are generated by only nine commenters–and here I charitably assume that the nine, who constantly praise each other, are nine actual humans rather than an even fewer number of people posting under multiple aliases.
And they constantly link to a laughable, already debunked blog post that should be titled “fictional history, fraudulent assertions.”
Republicofscotland
Aye, I’ve been following that story.
Bussed in agitators from surrounding counties being paid for a spot of civil war & America losing its shit that the Georgian government is blocking foreign interference in its government.
The stupid philosophy of Ellis up there that if they agitate the ppl will demand the whole government will change it’s mind & allow foreign interference after all LOL! The brain fart ramblings of the insanely stupid.
International Law is finished, the preparations for war are well underway.
More Wolfe Tone
https://ireland-calling.com/wolfe-tone-leader-1798-united-irishmen-rebellion/
@Republicofscotland says: 6 June, 2024 at 6:52 pm
Oh dear, you’ve just painted a target on your back with that post!
The den of thieves will be booking their assassin on a flight as I type. I hope you’re wearing gloves to open doors, and avoiding any building with more than a ground floor.
Unless …
You’re a lying, mendacious, twisted fantasist? Yup, that could defo explain your miraculous survival so far.
25,000 foreign NGO’s in Georgia
Of course there are!
Republicofscotland
Aye the same rules don’t apply to them. If he did to Mexico what they’ve done to U they’d be having a bigger meltdown than they are already. Things only look to get worse under Trump. They’ve killed their own empire & the whole world is a gasp at their unhinged stupidity.
You’d have thought they’d have learned lessons Fae Cuba.
Another outfit that completely disregards international treaties & agreements & thinks no one will notice.
These eejits also failed to sign the world wide ban of putting nukes in space. Thank fck their empire is over.
@Republicofscotland 7:25pm
I hope not RoS, in my lifetime I have never known our military defensive capability to be so anaemic. Listen to the D Day veterans today. Avoid War and seek solutions.
James @ 5.05 said:
“Distract, contradict, divert, cut & paste, misinform, rinse, repeat.
#AskAndy is the font of all knowledge.
It’s a legal issue, but ‘cos it’s Scotland, it’s not.
Just because. Ok?”
Have to say that, taking into account all the words expended on Wings re the franchise and other topics, I think James has done an admirable job of pithily summarising those particularly repetitious and specious kinds of “debating” tactics.
Shiteyface
How many NGO’s in Scotland?
How many are actually *real* with a *real* income & not just a paper register to be called on at short notice?
Go crunch the figures & get back to us. Make yerself useful.
Geri
I find it hard to believe 300 million Chinese will be worried by our 20 usable ships.
Sven @5:54pm
Thanks, Sven.
You said:
“I just don’t feel that many regular posters have ever been convinced by opposing arguments”
Probably true. But some non-regulars, or some who only read the comments, might be encouraged to find out more for themselves from other sources on the the topics folk post their views and opinions on here.
And their research might lead to them being convinced, or otherwise, of some argument or other put forward here.
Like you, I ignore very, very few posters.
@Geri says:6 June, 2024 at 7:07 pm
They’re also attacking civilians – another cowardly custard act that they excel at .’dont worry guys about the battlefield – get the women & children – it’s all we know how to dae’
Under pressure from Hatuey and the republican boy above, Geri shows true class by delivering a stunning post, just when it’s needed.
The lunacy bar for this thread has now been raised to new heights.
It’s going to take Olympian talent to top that effort from Geri. I can’t see any of the usual suspects coming close.
George
They don’t want to..this is how it goes …
US “Theres no one to talk to”
P “Hello. I’m willing to talk”
US “Theres no one to talk to”
P “I’m here. Here’s my peace agreement”
BoJo “Don’t accept it! Keep fighting”
P “Favourable terms. No NATO expansion – U remains intact”
US “There’s no one to talk to”
BoJo ” Keep fighting – we’ll send bigger weapons. I love the Naz – can I be Churchill?”
Z “Fuck all works but okay. I’ll pass a law saying no one can talk”
P “Ye ken that means buffer zones, right?”
USA “Theres no one to talk to”
Z. “Let’s have a peace conference but we’ll not invite P” LOL
US “Theres no one to talk to”
P “I’m right fckn here! Ya senile auld git!”
US “Theres no one to talk to” “Let’s send fighter jets that may or may not be armed & say it wisnae us”
Z “Yer all coming tae my peace conference eh?”
West in unison “NO!”
How can you deal with ppl like that?
Insanity on stilts. This isn’t about U. They’ve watched them being slaughtered & lands captured. I wonder if they have beach front mansions planned too?
@ Andy Ellis
As far as I know Salvo are not saying what they’re doing/represent will IN ITSELF bring about Independence .
What they ARE doing , though , is amassing what could ( should ) be considered incendiary material – with the potential to undermine and ultimately demolish the very foundations of the Union – If used in concert with an – overtly – political entity representative of the will of the people , with indisputable legitimacy conferred by the people – at least , a majority of the people . 51% will do fine .
Whether that ” political entity ” requirement is filled by an existing Political Party , a new such , or something altogether different remains to be seen . Only the increasingly admirable ISP has so far embraced the work – and potential – of SALVO
ALBA seems stuck in a plough of despond ; largely of it’s own making .
I believe ALBA would benefit greatly , be invigorated greatly , if it embraced SALVO and the arguments it’s making and opened-up into a broader , deeper position from which to progress our aspiration .
” In this great future , you can’t forget your past ” . Yip 🙂
I will be on holiday in Balintore during the election. I wasn’t bothered about a postal vote. Now I see we have an Alba candidate in Falkirk. So I think he will need my vote. Anything to split the SNP vote. That really winds their zealots up.
Geri @8:06pm
I like your script. Have you been listening in on top level top secret diplomatic conversations?
@Geri 8:06pm
I never said it was about me. My life is over and I have had all the major life events. Children, Grandchildren, Weddings , Graduate ceremonies the lot. And I want the rest of Scotland to experience the same. We have had 10 years of nothingness. Our Nation (Scotland) has gone back. So roll on July 4th. My hope is the SNP are wiped out along with the Conservatives. They failed on every measurable metric.
@Campbell Clansman says:6 June, 2024 at 7:22 pm
This isn’t a serious site for debate. Rev Stu’s abdication of responsibility for moderating the comments ensures this.
Alert readers draw several conclusions:
1) Many posters lack basic social skills. The fact that any opinion not in lockstep with their own draws immediate fire and ire demonstrates this. That’s textbook narcissism.
2) Many posters lack the usual maturity expected with adulthood. The “go to” tactic of infantile name calling makes this clear. There’s no doubt it worked for them in the Primary School playground. But normal people grow out of it.
3) With 1) and 2) goes a complete lack of awareness verging on the pathological. I cannot decide for myself whether some posters truly believe that infantile, pathetic, ranting attracts newcomers to the cause, or whether they are actually so uninterested in the cause that they always prioritise the dopamine hit they get from risk-free online hostility. I am shading towards the latter explanation.
4) Much of what gets posted on here is hysterical, OTT, wildly inaccurate, chip-on-the-shoulder, loser talk. But in true cult fashion, there is an acceptance that the the most hysterical, OTT fulminating is the mark of the “true believer”. And only the “true believer” is allowed to disbelieve. Other disbelievers are seen as heretics to be silenced. Textbook behaviour in any cult.
5) Following from the insistence of the usual suspects for posting lies and fantasies, we arrive at the conclusion that they post what they do, knowing it to be lies and fantasies at the moment of posting! Why would anybody do that? It’s certainly not rational behaviour. Here lies the true mystery of Wings BTL.
Geri @ 8.06
‘Kin brilliant post , sista
Northcode
Geopolitical news sites with the real news.
Not the BBC & MSM propaganda channels who do their best to block it.
P holds press conferences & there is daily briefing press releases straight from the horses mouth & there is plenty of sites on the internet that cover it. It’s also a well known fact they’ve been offered talks repeatedly, including just the other day not to escalate – all ignored. Unelected BoJo was sent to reject & agitated all the more along with unelected Cameron while the US acts like a bunch of stroppy teenagers cause they’re being gubbed by conventional methods & they’ve recently found out they’ve been shafted by buying *state of the art* dud weapons & anes that need 23 hour charge & maintenance every drill LOL.
@Shug says:6 June, 2024 at 7:49 pm
I find it hard to believe 300 million Chinese will be worried by our 20 usable ships
Aren’t we reaching for the nukes?
Only needs one ship to get a missile onto the kind of population densities the Chinese favour and 300 mill should be doable.
Women, kids and unarmed civs too, exactly the kind of targets we excel at taking out.
If you’re going to respond, please make sure you address your response to the hysteric who started this shite.
I see Ross is standing for Westminster. I wonder if that is because they have plans, labour and conservative to close the scottish parliament and this is his pay off
Who came up with the idea that the role of the poster on Wings is to convince someone of something.
What would we be expected to convince others of?
Geri
“P holds press conferences & there is daily briefing press releases straight from the horses mouth ”
I had no idea. I’m not current affairs savvy on international issues so I miss a lot of this stuff.
I’ll have a look for those Geopolitical news sites you mention .
And so it begins.
France will transfer Mirage 2000-5 fighters to U, President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview with the TV channel BFMTV.
“Tomorrow we will start a new cooperation and announce the transfer of Mirage 2000-5 aircraft,”
_________________
“In the period from June 12 to June 17, 2024, a detachment of the Navy of the R–us-si-an Federation consisting of four ships will pay an official visit to the port of Havana: the frigate Gorshkov, the nuclear submarine Kazan, the oil tanker Pashin and the rescue tug Nikolai Chiker,” the communiqué on the agency’s website says.”
_________________
Meanwhile the (US) begins its war by other means on Georgia.
“The United States will restrict entry for dozens of Georgian citizens, State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said at a briefing.
«
“This is the first batch of visa restrictions to apply to members of the Georgian Dream party in parliament, law enforcement officers and individuals,” he said.”
____________
The German government gives its citizens a glimpse of what’s to come.
“German tabloid Bild published the plan of the German government for the population of the country in the event of a large-scale armed conflict with R–u-s-s–ia.
According to the publication, across Germany to the eastern flank NATO The troops of the bloc will be transferred. The Bundeswehr forces themselves will also be located in this area. The plan directly states that in the event of a simultaneous attack in several places, the state will not be able to help all those in need: people need to be ready to cope with difficulties themselves.”
__________
Some more chess pieces are being moved into place.
“Moldovan military equipment is being moved to a training ground near the border with Transnistria, said Oleg Belyakov, co-chairman of the Joint Control Commission (JCC) from the unrecognized Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic.
“We see more notices that come to the media and videos on social networks. People film how the equipment goes to the training ground near the village of Bulboaca in Moldova. This is wrong. Because we are well aware that there is an element of some kind of military danger, and we must constantly not forget about this within the framework of a peacekeeping operation. Because we provide security both inside the security zone and outside it,”
Northcode @ 20.02.
You’re correct, North and I take your point. I do tend to forget that folk will pop in and that many, doubtless, read regularly without commenting.
You’ve posted this many times.
Can I ask both you and Campbell Clansman the following:
1. Why do you post here?
2. What is it you want to debate?
3. Have you complained to Stuart Campbell about his ‘abdication of responsibility?’
4. Do you have mental health issues?
Northcode
TASS is official newsagency of R.
& There’s plenty of unofficial commentators on YouTube with news from various countries around the world.
Orban for example, Hungarian PM, kicking off the other day about the stupidity of the EU escalating & how the EU needs to drive out it’s warhawks. Check out “Orbans fiery speech against Europes war strategy” bearing in mind U has banned elections so their ppl can’t speak. The EU is not acting for their ppl but on orders. They need a reset.
Keeping their key turners/ button pushers on their toes for what’s to come.
“The United States has carried out a second training launch of the Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) from the US Space Force Vandenberg base in one week, according to a statement on the base’s website.
“An unarmed Minuteman III Intercontinental Ballistic Missile launches during an operational test at 1:46 a.m. Pacific Time on June 6, 2024, at Vandenberg Space Force Base, Calif,” the statement reads.
The first operational test took place on June 4.”
Geri
Thanks for the info. I’ll take a look.
I haven’t kept up with what’s going on with the EU so I can’t really comment on its current state. Many on here will know a lot more than I do about it.
But I’m not sure that an independent Scotland, if it had the opportunity, would be wise to re-join the EU as it is now. As I said, I don’t know enough to say one way or the other for certain.
@Republicofscotland says: 6 June, 2024 at 9:34 pm
Seems like there could be a sudden influx of Pres P’s ambassadors for peace, love and understanding on many fronts and from many directions.
Hopefully they’ll bring tanks and flame throwers with them – sometimes the only way to teach people peace, love and understanding is by flattening them or incinerating them.
I thank the Good Lord we’re the cuddliest, friendliest, wee nation in the world. We’ll be exempt – bad things only happen to bad people after all. Maybe we can all start pushing our own peace, love and understanding down through England and into Europe. Meet Pres P’s ambassadors half way – in Belgium say.
Of course we’ll encounter the reality of Europe’s lived experience. The closer you come to the places with first-hand knowledge of the Land of the Tsars, the more you find people implacably hostile to them.
Odd that. It’s as if centuries of pogroms, disappearances, gulags, terror, mass deportations, holodomors and forced slave labour leave behind a bad impression.
Reactionary snowflakes, eh? I bet they’re all N@zis too. And Zillionists. N@zi Zillionists. Somebody needs to teach them peace, love and understanding from behind a Kalashnikov.
How about you, Republicofscotland? Destiny comes calling but once in most lives. Seize the chance to live the dream by the side of your heroes!
Ross is getting out of Holyrood. Because the Scottish Tories are looking for a new leader, and it’s not him. He is even too dim witted for the Scottish Tories. But most of all because he is a selfish bastard, and is only looking after himself.
Northcode
The Grayzone that Republicofscotland posted are also good, judge nap, dialogue works & Alexander Mercouris to name just a few
Aye, the EU are under NATO – the USAs army & as such is under their foreign policy. How stupid that sovereign nations adopt one eejits foreign policy like sheeple.
Germany has just sunk in the world economy to 5th place behind R. The USA blew up their cheap Gas from R & told them not to sell them cars. So R switched to buying them off China LOL
One crashed economy for absolutely no reason other than America has an obsession with R.
@Northcode says: 6 June, 2024 at 10:19 pm
I’m not sure that an independent Scotland, if it had the opportunity, would be wise to re-join the EU
Has anybody told ScotGov?
Current policy is to join (not “re-join”) on the basis that Scotland has no hope as an independent country, therefore has to be in the EU.
No consultation with us “Sovereign Scots” needed. Vote for Indy, get the EU thrown in for free.
The utter folly of establishing your desperation to be in the EU, prior to negotiating the terms and conditions under which you will have to join the EU, is, of course, lost both on ScotGov, and on those who unthinkingly support this policy.
Let’s just say that the EU won’t have to bother dispatching their top negotiators to deal with and run rings around our hapless, hopeless time servers.
It’s not “re-join” BTW because the deal on offer will be one suitable for a country with one tenth the clout of the former UK. We won’t have the heft to bend the EU to our will.
David Duguid assured his disastrous London centric colleague that he was fine to stand again as an MP at the forthcoming elections despite a spinal problem.
Dross has rolled him out of his sick bed to steal his constituency
Not having a spine at all gives him priority as Duguid’s short term problems.
The people of Peterhead will remember Michael Gove’s promise to give them more control over their fishing grounds.
The creepy wee liar lied through teeth throughout.
Shiteyface
Remind the group what side U was on during WW2.
& Is still on?
They never forgave R for sacking their hero. Even just last week they were in parliament meeting BoJo. The weeks before that it was Blinken in Na-z pub singing peace songs LOL.
Proving eejits like you will get into bed with anyone. & I mean anyone.
The Tories are all sleekit barstewards. No honour amongst thieves.
Duguid consistently voting against a windfall tax cause his wife has shares. For the few not the many. He’ll not be missed. A leech who kissed his imperial masters arse & kept kissing it through 5 PMs.
His back pain is probably fae too much kneeling.
I won’t even ponder whit doing LOL
Alf Baird @ 4:48pm
Sorry, Alf. Just noticed your post of 4:48pm.
Thanks for your comprehensive reply to my question.
You probably know I’m a big fan of the Trivium; I have been for many years. A large part of the discipline behind the first three liberal arts encompassed by the Trivium is the teaching of its students to learn how to learn.
In fact, learning how to learn is at the heart of the Trivium and it essentially forms the foundation of a classical education. I think it should be taught in our schools; not much chance of that happening until Scotland is independent.
But the Trivium doesn’t reach the level of the rigorous discipline required for academic research in which you are trained and very neatly describe in your response.
I think it’s important that folk understand the sheer effort that goes into producing such work as you have done with your research, papers and book developing on the idea that postcolonial theory is a reality in Scotland.
Although as we can see in the behaviours displayed by Scotland’s native elite, as predicted by postcolonial theory, I think we can reasonably assert that your theory is no longer just theory.
You say:
“‘Doun-Hauden’ …represents the basis for a subordinated people to better understand the nature and extent of their oppression, and such material is never welcome in a colony.”
Indeed, Alf.
The biggest enemies of Scotland. Are those Scots who actively worship the colonisers. The ones who actually pursue their colonisers, like some ancient deity.
They bend the knee at the sight of royalty, or another war worshipping poppy fest.They always seem to have Union Jack air freshners or Union Jack sandals. They will say they are British and Scottish. But will never have a Saltire.
They are the ones who want to extinguish Scotland. The Colonisers from within. They are the worst form of occupiers.
We will never win these people over. Because they don’t believe in Scotland as a nation. They see Scotland as a region of the UK. A lot of them are reverse Ulster Scots migrants. The arsehole of the UK.
You all missed the most important revelation of the day. A highland lassie saying “At the end of the day”. I have heard that thousands of times. A seemingly competent performance from the Deputy First Minister except she has swerved every important decision she had to make. Not the messiah.
sven asks :
what is the purpose of posting on wings?
to convince the undecided?
– certainly not among posters, there are very few undecideds and a lot of bad actors just stirring it
the lurker is the target, the indy curious who needs a bit of information, encouragement, rhetorical ammunition
never forgetting people come to read the rev’s articles, 90+%
the BTL should be considered a bit of a laff, nothing much more.
I like reading it with my coffee.
at its best it is very sharp and funny, even perversely, like watching a twat like ellis get his knickers in a twist, clutching his handbag
there is a useful training ground aspect when it comes to writing – a good comment makes its point forcefully and memorably, concisely; while sometimes people do “go long” with well constructed comments, the real knockouts are the short ones
– there aren’t many places to develop your writing skills; school and uni don’t teach you how to write, only to punctuate (academic writing is especially boring) – and this is the essence of communication, to get that idea you came up with, injected into someone else’s brain
the best writers can do eloquence and the well constructed, but they also know how to mix it up as well and indulge in a bit of verbal thuggery
and you know when to break the rules, correctly, like I don’t bother to punctuate when it spoils the flow
– whenever I see someone called “sven” I always think of a feisty lad dressed as a plumber, ringing a doorbell, to be met by by a blonde, in full makeup, just out the shower …
plumber?!
oh you better come right in
CAN I CHECK YOUR PIPES
MY MASSIVE TOOL WILL UNBLOCK IT FINE
A GOOD SCREW AND IT WILL COME RIGHT OFF
some say your porn name is your first pet and your first street
“The utter folly of establishing your desperation to be in the EU, prior to negotiating the terms and conditions…”
Interesting that one of the most obnoxious and dim people that comments here thinks he can lecture us on diplomacy, but what exactly do you think there is to negotiate? It’s a well established organisation, with rules, regulations, policies, standards, etc…
Anyway, please don’t respond. I’m 100% not worth it.
What really puzzles me is that people are prepared to argue about stuff like this on here. We are a million miles from discussions along these lines.
Meanwhile, the world’s on fire. Petrol’s cheap, tho…
Northcode
Ignored says:
6 June, 2024 at 10:19 pm
But I’m not sure that an independent Scotland, if it had the opportunity, would be wise to re-join the EU as it is now. As I said, I don’t know enough to say one way or the other for certain.
For Scotland, the best is yet to come.
Scotland is at the wrong end of a disingenuous political Union which prioritises wealth and prosperity in the South, and actively suppresses and undermines these phenomena in the North, unless of course this economic performance can be plundered and the wealth extracted.
Life and economic performance in Scotland has not been allowed to flourish naturally and develop its home centric prosperity without this bias.
Post Independence, the economic priorities change immediately,, and Scotland will benefit tremendously from developing its stunted economic infrastructure into modern and efficient capacity that is no longer designed to be second best.
I believe the whole centre of gravity will change, and Scotland that is currently bottom heavy through the central belt, will see a more even distribution of prosperity, and less hardship and isolation for our “remote” areas. Too often, this “remoteness” is determined by London’ based strategic planning which is determined to keep Scotland a subdued and exploited economic backwater rather than a competitor.
Should Scotland have stayed in the EU? Yes. The EU would have greatly assisted Scotland’s emancipation from the UK, both politically, and economically. Scotland’s Brexit subjugation should properly have been terminal for the UK’s continued existence at a stroke. We have lost Europe”s positive buoyancy, and must now support the dead weight of UK ballast, but we’ve gained nothing from the transaction. We are their fkg buoyancy!
But that isn’t the same question as whether Scotland should now rejoin the EU.
I think there is a better option.
Scotland should exploit its strategic position and become the conflux of trade organisations; not just the EU, but BRICS, the traditional Baltic Nations and North America too. Join the EU, yes, but only to the extent where we can equally join BRICS, EFTA, and maintain independent Trade Agreements with England, the Commonwealth, and North America. Join, but only on our terms.
Scotland could and should be the friend and facilitator to all nations, and not a threat to any.
No threat, yet the Gallowglass will rise and ride again, and embrace their destiny as UN Peacemakers, not flunkies for another Nation’s warmongering hubris, all dressed up and fawning over alien Royalty. Scottish soldier, take back your dignity. Take back your Scottishness and embrace it, but minus the red tunic FFS.
I’ve described in the past Scotland’s potential to become the Istanbul of Western Europe, where economic Continents and cultures collide; East meets West, North meets South, and a festival of trade ensues. Scotland becomes a significant node in global economics and freight handling.
Scotland will be strong in the North, just as Scotland traditionally was, but I don’t believe the Central belt has anything to fear from that. The days of Scotland being a stunted playground, wasteland for the rich and landed gentry, will come to an end.
I believe that is Scotland’s destiny, and the Treaty of Union is an obscene canker on that destiny. Be rid of it.
Scotland will never again be as weak and broken as it is now. The current “management” of Scotland is a disgrace and humiliation upon all of us.
@ Hatuey says: 7 June, 2024 at 2:22 am
Interesting that one of the most obnoxious and dim people that comments here
Well, well. Straight in with the second observation from my Wings BTL “rulebook”, outlined at 8:35 PM – the “go to” name calling.
Hatuey arose at 2:22 to do a number 2 on me. Surely I am unworthy.
@Breeks says:7 June, 2024 at 4:21 am
It’s good that Breeks outlines our future in the EU for us. No need to bother about trivial details such as our unique Scottish Sovereignty when EU membership is such a slam dunk.
Just as with the current regime, where our Scottish Sovereignty is wheeled out when it suits, but parked under a tarpaulin when it’s awkward, so it shall be in the future too.
It’s good also that the old question “Is Scotland too wee and too poor to go it alone?” is so comprehensively settled. Scotland has no future whatsoever outside of the EU. Our currency and fiscal policies will be made in Brussels. Our external trade deals and sanctions limitations will be fixed abroad. Our industries and utilities will be run from overseas under EU “level playing field” rules. Freedom of movement will ensure our jobs and houses go to incomers.
On the plus side, every Scottish pro-EU shill will be free to fuck off abroad to live. Exactly the outcome I have long suspected is at the root of much, even most, of the post-EU greetin on here.
Should Scotland have stayed in the EU? Yes. The EU would have greatly assisted Scotland’s emancipation from the UK, both politically, and economically
The boys in Brussels are well aware the accession treaties were with the UK, not the individual bits of it. They have a sense of humour failure when some bright spark tells them the UK doesn’t exist, especially when that bright spark just flew in on a UK passport. The boys in Brussels are serious people. People who deny the existence of the UK aren’t.
Join the EU, yes, but only to the extent where we can equally join BRICS, EFTA, and maintain independent Trade Agreements with England, the Commonwealth, and North America. Join, but only on our terms.
Scotland could and should be the friend and facilitator to all nations, and not a threat to any
Loving the smell of purest Scottish Exceptionalism in the morning! Wha’s like us, eh?
embrace their destiny as UN Peacemakers
Thought the UN was finished? That aside, as the world shapes up for “WW3 – this time it’s serious” – we are to send our sons and daughters out into the flashpoints with strict instructions not to shoot at anybody. Aye, right.
The current “management” of Scotland is a disgrace and humiliation upon all of us
Very true. Now if only we could identify who was responsible for the past ten years of the current “management”. What a vengeance we would wreak.
Oh wait. Sturgeon did it all on her very own lonesome. Nothing whatsoever to do with the short-memoried SNP 1 & 2 boys and girls.
@Big Jock says:6 June, 2024 at 11:33 pm
The biggest enemies of Scotland. Are those Scots who actively worship the colonisers. The ones who actually pursue their colonisers, like some ancient deity
Are we talking London colonisers or Brussels colonisers, or both?
We will never win these people over. Because they don’t believe in Scotland as a nation. They see Scotland as a region of the UK
Did you mean UK, or EU, or maybe both?
Somebody was writing about lurkers. I wonder if lurkers can work out why, if being run from London is so bad we want Indy, being run from Brussels will be so good we will immediately want to drop our hard-fought-for Indy like a shitty stick.
I wonder if lurkers can accept the childish world view that hateful devils incarnate lurk in London, whereas Brussels is the abode of saintly, enlightened, paragons of justice, fairness and benevolence.
@Hatey 8.04am (& passim)
Despite your (continual) brave attempts, most Scots are no more likely to accept your false equivalence that being part of the EU and the UK is same/same, than they are to accept the worldview of the moonhowling dregs in here.
The fact is all polling evidence shows the Scots electorate are resolutely pro EU: indeed the proportion in favour has actually risen from the supermajority who supported Remain in the brexit referendum.
You personally may not like the prospect, but it’s a racing certainty that post independence Scotland would move quickly to seek access to the Free Market à la Norwegian model, and thereafter to begin the accession process.
The EU will have absolutely no reason to do anything other than fast track Scottish accession, but even if it takes longer than most expect, few Scots share your slightly irrational fear of the EU’s fairly vestigial supra-national aspirations.
Despite what the usual suspects in here think, the vast majority of Scots would prefer to see Scotland emulate Finland and Sweden being members of the EU and NATO than being like Ireland or some Brigadoon-esque tartan parody of Belarus.
“We have always been at war with Eastasia!”
“We will always fight for Scottish Independence!”
See the similarities, folks?
Perpetual deception – very convenient for the SNP elites who like to lord it over us and keep things as they are. Very nice for some individuals, but not for Scotland.
Breeks @4:21am
“For Scotland, the best is yet to come….Scotland could and should be the friend and facilitator to all nations, and not a threat to any…I believe that is Scotland’s destiny, and the Treaty of Union is an obscene canker on that destiny. Be rid of it”
Excellent post, Breeks. Truly excellent. I was moved by your vision and your hope for Scotland, and your belief in her destiny. It’s a vision and a belief I share.
The Zzz–io-Mon–sters bombed a UN run school in G-a-z-za killing dozens, the (US) votes (Senate) to sanction the ICC because it dares to think about issuing a warrant for the Zzz–i-o-M-on–ster Ne–ta–nya—hu and his evil sidekick Ga–ll-ant.
Countries can recognise a P–al–estin-ain state all they want, and they can get behind SA’s case for prosecuting the Zzz–i-o-Mo-ste-rs, but nothing but force will stop them from completing their g–en–oci–de against the people of G–az-za.
Sturgeon the Judas has an update on her new book, I’m sure it will be heavily laden with the phrases, Not to best of my knowledge, I can’t remember, I don’t recall that, you get the picture. Hopefully it will go straight into the bargain bins of book shops, and then like the Mills& Boon books it will be pulped and used for a better purpose.
“NICOLA Sturgeon has provided an update on her new memoir as she predicted that “one or two people” might hate it.
Speaking to an audience in Edinburgh, the former first minister said she had now finished a first draft of the book after it proved much harder to write than she expected.
However, she said she ended up with almost double the number of words she was meant to produce for her publisher.”
By God, Confused…you good, make laughter in me.
Even your one word chortle is rhetorically persuasive. And so I am persuaded to follow the path of the evangelical chortler and enter as a novice in the chortlehood.
Hopefully, as I progress through novicey, I’ll ascend the ranks of chortleness to become a Master of the Giggle and perhaps, with dedication and copious amounts of self-flagellation and nitro, reach that exalted state – the King’s Regius, Grand Keeper of the Guffaw.
I believe you are the reincarnation of Aristotle, Confused.
RoS, I get the feeling you are about to pre-order it – am I wrong???
Confused @ 12.19.
I fear my first comment on your earlier post has disappeared into the WoS “Bermuda Triangle of moderation”, though I know not why.
Had any reason ever been needed for BTL comments, your humourous image of the Sven I almost wish I was would always suffice.
Thanks for the morning giggle as I enjoyed my coffee … though you missed out the rippling muscles beneath the satin, Nordic skin.
‘The Hatey Fucker’ hasn’t answered my question as to what he wants to debate with ‘Franchise Fanny’ here BTL on Wings.
It seems it’s EU membership. FFS
I’m saying it’s ‘Franchise Fanny’ he wants to have a debate with because everyone else is just a ‘Moonhowler’.
This Moonhowler has seen this debate between ‘The Hatey Fucker’ and ‘Franchise Fanny’ about 50 times already.
I can’t see the point of these two having ‘a debate’ about EU membership at this point in time nor them repeating the same thing over and over and over and over again.
If I were chairing this debate I would say OK guys if you have nothing new to say lets bring this debate to an end.
You can both self-id as the winner. Well done! Bravo! Cheerio.
Same applies to the debate about the franchise.
Although on this occasion Fanny has lost and the ‘Moonhowlers’ are the winners.
Hoorah for the Moonhowlers. Ra! Ra! Ra!
Moon howlin’ totally ’round the bend
Moon howlin, for more than a mile
We’re doing it in style to day
Two howlers, off to see the world
There’s such a lot of world to see
We’re hoping for the bloody rainbow’s end
Totally ’round the bend
My Geri Beri friend
Moon howlin with me
For tune in case you didn’t guess see Moonriver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_jgIezosVA
I’m practising my writing of short stories,jokes, poems & lyrics.
It’s fun!
I could change the name from Geri Beri to Fanny Beri although I don’t think Fanny would every go Moonhowlin’ with me but you never know. Sometimes people do see the light.
Not only am I practising my creative writing I’m also get a lot of practise with my ‘touch typing’
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy cow.
Some good men come to the aid of the party.
A fine retort, Sven the plumber. It’s sometimes hard to wrench oneself. Free of Confused’s magnetic chortlings.
And that is why punctuation is sometimes very important.
Topic Books
https://tinyurl.com/3aac2sfu
‘The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht’
This one came out in print & ebook on 1st June.
Coming out in audio book on 06-13-24
06-13-24 ? the American spell checker will like that one.
I like an audio book/podcast cos I can put it on my waterproof ipod and listen to it everywhere.
On the topic of books what on earth is happening to the book festivals?
That could be worth debating.
PS My waterproof ipod is 1″ square and clips on to anything you might be wearing. Does the iphone do that?
I’m a bit addicted to my tiny wee ipod but unlike the iphone addiction I can see where I’m going and and I don’t have to stop everything I’m doing to listen to my ipod.
The iphone addiction is a terrible problem. Why do people need to check their iphone so urgently?
Do they need to find out what gender they are pdq?
Big Jock @ 11:33 pm
“They will say they are British and Scottish. But will never have a Saltire. They are the ones who want to extinguish Scotland. The Colonisers from within. They are the worst form of occupiers. We will never win these people over. Because they don’t believe in Scotland as a nation.”
Here we need to understand that a colonized people ‘crave dependence’ and hence oppose their own liberation. We saw the various elite groups all scurrying around in their finery at St. Giles for the non-funeral of QEII and the non-crowning of KCIII, each more than content for Scots to play the bit-part in the ongoing colonial ‘UK’ hoax. Native elites clearly have an important role in this regard.
Fanon wrote that colonialism is always ‘a co-operative venture with native elites’, whilst Cesaire reminds us that:
“colonization is based on psychology, that there are (native) groups… who suffer from what must be called a dependency complex, that these groups are psychologically made for dependence; that they need dependence, that they crave it, ask for it, demand it; that this is the case with most colonized peoples”.
We can be sure that these ‘dependent’ groups work hard to protect the colonial racket, and their privileged position in it, and to prevent the people becoming independent/liberated.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2024/03/03/the-colonial-mindset/
Absolutely spot on; really excellent. More please.
Republicofscotland
Ignored says:
7 June, 2024 at 9:41 am
Sturgeon the Judas has an update on her new book,
Ah, a book deal? The usual method of payment for services rendered.
@Northcode 9.31am
Seemed more like strong vibes of Neil Kinnock at the triumphalist Sheffield Rally prior to the 1992 General Election to me….the difference was folk actually thought Labour were going to win.
I doubt many folk think Scotland is imminently going to become independent as a result of one of the cunning plans for indy so beloved of the hard of thinking BTL in here. They’re more like the folk who fell for Kinnock’s excruciating “We’re all right!” schtick.
If wishes were horses, we’d have cantered over the horizon to the sunny uplands of independence yonks ago.
“Bermuda Triangle of moderation”
I thought that one up.
See I am able to influence people on this forum.
Hoorah! for me.
Four Russian Navy boat including one nuclear submarine are docking in Cuba.
Statement is that no nuclear weapons on board.
That as may be, but where are the other Russian nuclear armed submarines. Off the coast of Scotland. And for that matter I wonder where the American nuclear armed submarines are.
It’s all frightenly heating up especially as US / British long range weaponry is now striking deep into Russia.
Snd then I listened to the SNP’s defence spokesman Martin Docherty Hughes last night exporting that Europe, Britain and indeed all political parties across the spectrum stand strong in the fight against Russia.
Frightening times indeed. War is coming I fear. And a big war at that. Don’t agree much with Trump but his statement that a big war would wipe us all out is I suspect bang on the money.
Ruby Tuesday @10:17am
“I’m practising my writing of short stories, jokes, poems & lyrics.
It’s fun!”
It is fun isn’t it, Ruby? I’d love to see more of your jokes, poems & lyrics.
Moonriver was the first tune I learned to play on the clarinet decades ago. I know the tune well and I’ve just set your lyrics to it in ma heid…they work perfectly – better than the original lyrics. 🙂
Looking forward to reading your short stories.
It would be so much more stylist if Alfie did blockquotes. Don’t you agree?
Alf Baird
Ignored
says:
7 June, 2024 at 10:33 am
Big Jock @ 11:33 pm
“They will say they are British and Scottish. But will never have a Saltire. They are the ones who want to extinguish Scotland. The Colonisers from within. They are the worst form of occupiers. We will never win these people over. Because they don’t believe in Scotland as a nation.”
That is so weird and worth a debate.
Also ‘crave approval’
Sorry I haven’t read all of Alf’s post yet I just got hung up with the lack of style/blockquotes.
Sorry Alf please carry on.
Northcode @ 10.27.
“Wrench myself” indeed, North … I saw what you did there.
I can now envisage a series of verbal interchanges revolving around grammar, punctuation and syntax. A veritable battle of wits to which, unfortunately, I would arrive only half prepared.
I wouldn’t rejoin the EU now.
It’s proving to be the United States of Europe part 2.
It follows orders from the Whitehouse.
All this shit happening in the world right now is to keep American Hegemony going & they’re all seeing who can go over the cliff first to keep Biden in power. Germany the first weeeeee…over they go crashing their own economy.
Orban laying out too, what we’ve always known, this gender pish is an instruction they’ve all to follow too.
Then there’s NATO. Unelected & only interested in American interests. Imposing ever member to not only pay into a protection racket but have to adhere to the Americans foreign policy.
So there you have it. Sovereign nations do as they’re telt, even if they don’t like it or want it & don’t have their own foreign policy.
Does anyone know what happens when two or three NATO countries fall oot? Lol what side do they pick?
Jeez, don’t we have this shit already with the union? Out of one straight jacket & right back into another.
Independent Scotland would be best in EFTA & BRICS. BRICS seems a great idea from what I’ve seen. Co-operations to help the little ppl get on their feet & not tied to a turbulent currency outside of their control. So if America goes into recession that’s their business – it wouldn’t infect everyone else. Win win.
On the topic of those with a ‘dependency complex’/people who can be easily brain washed.
I thought up a plot for a sci-fi novel many years ago.
People were being controlled through their horoscope. The only people who avoided this control were those born on the 29th February.
These were the people who saved the world because they avoided the control of the Horoscope writers.
It wasn’t an easy job but eventually they managed.
Leap year babies saved the world.
If I pick up this story again the leap year babies will be called Stu, Alf, Dan, Confused, Big Jock, Robert, Dorothy, Geri, James too many to mention but you know who you are.
Yes you too!
You all know who ‘the Horoscope writers’ are don’t you?
Basically I was questioning why some people can be brain washed and others can’t.
Obviously I won’t be writing a book ‘cos I can’t write for toffee but I’m practising.
I also get distracted easily so don’t have the discipline to write a book.
For example I’m now wondering where the phrase ‘can’t write for toffee’ came from.
Was there a time when writers got a bar of toffee as payment for their work.
Some wishes are winged Unicorns
And Scotland’s Winged Unicorn will soon fly high above the sunny uplands of independence and on toward the bright, snow-capped mountains of liberation where the air is pure and fresh and sparkling mountain streams wash clean from furrowed brows the last clinging vestiges of dark nightmares.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-elite-and-me/comment-page-1/#comment-2857963
Right back at you Northcode!
More please.
Clarinet was it?
Now that’s very stylish.
Sven @10:55am
I hope you don’t think I was insulting you, Sven. I was just trying to make a humorous point following on from Confused’s post on punctuation.
Those admitting to knowing about ‘Sven the plumber and his big wrench’ are giving away their secrets.
Dirty dirty boys! It’s no wonder you all had to go to Specsavers.
So sorry I really have to go. It’s been fun!
Carry on Moonhowlin’!
woooOOOOOOOOOOOO! woooOOOOOOOOOOOO! woooOOOOOOOOOOOO!
PS I wonder if Stu thinks all his reader want is a big wrench?
Here’s one!
https://tinyurl.com/2npykzkk
Two months lessons on a borrowed clarinet, my dad thought it would calm me doun, where I learned to play Moonriver and Strangers on the Shore before I got bored and quit – my dreams of playing in the London Philharmonic dashed. I quit with style, though.
Northcode @ 11.28.
Absolutely not, North, I’ve been chuckling away to myself.
Confused says on 7 June 2024 at 12:19 am: “..the BTL should be considered a bit of a laff, nothing much more…at its best it is very sharp and funny, even perversely, like watching a twat like ellis get his knickers in a twist, clutching his handbag.”
Talk about hypocrisy? And you don’t get to dictate what the btl should be about. Also, have you ever noticed how Ellis, Main & Co *NEVER* post direct links to BritNat media outlets? But you and several other so-called indy supporters do. Love or loathe them, they come across more as indy supporters to me than the likes of you lot doing the BritNats’ dirty work. As Judge Judy would say, don’t come to the court (of public opinion) if you don’t have clean hands.
“What Happened To GB Energy?”
https://commonweal.scot/gb-energy/
Aye, jist what on earth did happen to GB energy… Maybe some of the unionist posting on here that are so fond of London Rule could explain the positives rather than the obvious negatives?
Meanwhile, electrical energy being generated in Scotland’s geographic area is currently enough to power ourselves (2.3GW) and still sending more than the amount we are using down to England (3GW).
https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime
Sven reminds me of the reindeer from Frozen.
Even more so now that he just nods along (or not) & doesn’t say much but chortles now & again.
Sorry to shatter yer porn image lol
My porn names would be Rabbit Oak
Or if it’s the pets name it’d be Thumper Oak LOLZ
Ruby
cognitive dissonance is a phenomenon.
Folks change new evidence to fit round their already held beliefs cause they fear changing them. It’s a mystery. Maybe they were dropped at birth?
Before I go this one is for Sam
‘I would arrive only half prepared.’
This phrase reminded me of one of the few lines from Shakespeare I remember ….. well not exactly and I don’t have time to google ATM. You’ll know what I’m talking about.
He scampers nimbly in the ladies chamber scarce half made up
A Shakespearian plumber who forgot his big wrench or maybe doesn’t have one? Alternatively he may have forgotten his make-up and needs it when scampering however nimbly in the ladies chamber.
“Dirty dirty boys! It’s no wonder you all had to go to Specsavers”
Sorry Sven and Confused – Ruby’s onto us and knows the truth. Just last week I heard Sven had to have his glasses prescription increased to ‘milk-bottle-bottom’ grade.
Good photo of Sven’s wrench, Ruby. He’s always taking selfies and posting them on the internet that yin.
Plumbers – whit are they like?
You’re a good sport, Sven. Glad we made you chuckle, at least it’s a step up from Confused’s chortles.
Geri @ 12.07.
I’m not sure that Kristoff would be sorry to learn that the days of porn now lie behind his friend, Geri.
Sven
Okay. I’ll haud the furry outfit for now..lol
Don’t want to pish on anybody’s chips, but if the ‘Forbes Freeports’ go ahead an independent Scotland will be barred from entry to EFTA (and the EU), and as the ‘Freeport’ lease periods are generally 25+ years that puts the kibosh on it I would say.
So, one of the biggest threats to Indy will be these disasters waiting to happen. Some of our most important infrastructure (outdated as it is) will be within the zones; The Ports of Leith, Glasgow and Rosyth, Grangemouth oil refinery, 98% of the city of Edinburgh including it’s airport; and most of Fife including the Mossmorran gas plant.
Regulation will be near non-existent, no minimum wage levels, trade union recognition gone, profits siphoned off to foreign private companies and local authorities will be powerless to halt undesirable practices, such as fracking.
This madness needs to be stopped in it’s tracks.
“Some of the stuff you said from 2014 onwards seemed monstrous and lunatic, to me.”
Genuine question: like what?
@Republicofscotland says: 7 June, 2024 at 9:32 am
How goes the jenoside these days? Seems to have stalled. Man, true practitioners of jenoside, the Tsarists say, must be falling about laughing at the inefficiency and incompetence.
But you can’t back out now. You erected this pyramid of piffle and there you are, trapped at its apex, howling “It’s jenoside I tell you!” at the uncaring stars.
Meantime, on planet Earth, fierce fighting overnight between the hostage takers and the would-be hostage rescuers. I’m thinking that both sides are more than happy for the “jenoside” to continue indefinitely. Hard to reach any other conclusion, frankly.
Which just adds another layer of ludicrousness to your hysterical bleating about it being all the fault of one side.
Is it cos they is dews?
Oh yeah. Houthis kidnapping UN famine relief workers and banging them up. Maybe there’s some hot young lassies there, or maybe they want to divert food and medicine from their own starving people to their own personal stashes.
Wonder who gave them the idea, eh?
They’ll be piling their own women and kids on top of it all next.
Hello Ruby,
Key words are “chamber” and “made up”.Ye ken that, I think.
Much Ado about Nothing takes us finally (key word) into the country.No thing.
Filf. Speaking of which, where’s Porrage Farrage?
Dry yer eyes Main. Colonisers don’t get to play the victim no matter whit you ramble on about.
Dorothy Devine 9.56am.
You are 100% wrong.
@ Rev Stu 1.19pm
“Some of the stuff you said from 2014 onwards seemed monstrous and lunatic, to me.”
Genuine question: like what?
Careful now Stuey, you know the moonhowlers are still butthurt that you’re not on the side on franchise restriction. It triggers them something awful! I hear you’re a unionist now (in best Father Ted fashion!). 🙂
That is a pretty cunty post. He’s looking to create divisions between Wings readers and Stu.
That is not nice!
I listened to the podcast with interest and I never heard Stu say ‘moonhowlers’ once.
@Ruby 6.31pm Ignored
That is a pretty cunty post. He’s looking to create divisions between Wings readers and Stu.
That is not nice!
I listened to the podcast with interest and I never heard Stu say ‘moonhowlers’ once.
I thought you’d foresworn the tourette’s addled persona Rubes: apparently not…! Stun us with another.
The division is a matter of fact per Stuey’s own fisking of the nativists worldview. You and other moonhowlers are not on the same side as him on this issue.
Facts are chiels that winna ding, huh?
In the words of the man himself from twitter, 13/07/22:
“If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side. If you want their votes, fucking well persuade them. If you can’t, your case is shit.
And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.
We debated this in 2011 and we came to the right decision. Nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view. You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they’ll vote the wrong way.
’As well as being morally wrong, it’s almost certainly self-defeating. The Scotland you’d be trying to sell people under that franchise is a very different place to the one we were advocating in 2014, and very much for the worse.
That, of course, is true in many ways. If we got a referendum tomorrow I don’t in all honesty know if I could bring myself to campaign in it, because it’d be a *de facto* campaign for Nicola Sturgeon’s vision of a hellish, intolerant, incompetent and corrupt Scotland.
But that’s not a decision I need to lose sleep over, because we’re not getting a referendum tomorrow, or next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.
But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.”
Yawn… And Andy Ellis again “forgets” to include the bit where Stu stated he had no great issue with tightening up franchise eligibility criteria for the likes of temporary students and transient workers, which sounds a lot like implementing a duration of residence constraint…
The 2 pages of btl commentary below this linked to article from a few years ago is classic Ellis in full flow.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/as-it-is-and-when-it-was/comment-page-1/#comments
@DiningenuousDan 7.14 pm
Stu specifically stated he thought the decision on the 2014 franchise was the right one. He later said he *might* be convinced by arguments which excluded particularly flagrant examples of temporary residents: he’s never said he’s support the kind of restrictions suggested by the xenophobic dregs soiling BTL here, which depending on frothing gammon level range from 2 years, to 20 years or even excluding anyone not born in Scotland.
Don’t try to hide your bigotry under a bushel now Dan. We all see you and the rest of the blut und boden types.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-elite-and-me/#comment-2857380
Link to post where Gerry
says
“Some of the stuff you said from 2014 onwards seemed monstrous and lunatic, to me.”
Who’s Gerry?
Whoever he is he’s scarpered! I don’t think Stu will get an answer.
Any guesses who Gerry might be.
WTF is a Diningenuous
Has it got something to do with being able to do fancy napkin art.
ie swans, cones and bishops hats?
Sigh, so you’re jist going with the same lame tired old Ellis trope of trying to tar me as being blood and soil.
For all your years of monotropic like focus on this particular issue, you still haven’t been able to take onboard my own position, which is simply for there to be a reasonable defined duration of residence constraint, which is in no way restricting voting rights solely to those born in Scotland.
And that is the compromise position between you and your civic nationalism cohorts “anyone can rock up and get a vote”, and the “blood & soil” types.
But it’s been obvious for years that you lack the will or ability to yield an inch from your own hard held views, which is about as useful in the domain of political discourse and consensus building as a bicycle is to an eel.
One just needs to look at your legacy of btl input and interactions over the years to see this trait.
And the thing is, for all your (and other leading Indy brains) supposed knowledge and insight, y’all ain’t half late to realise that political Parties are fucked.
Pity all you know alls hadn’t recognised this much earlier and got with the program a good few years ago so we could have actually been up and running with a different strategy at this GE.
It’s fucking laughable and confirms your lack of foresight and nous that you’re now fluffing for the 2026 Holyrood elections as a plebiscite for Indy, because with the limited time till that vote, the compromised voting system, and straying into reserved matters, it means it will likely be yet another damp squib and simply pisses away yet more time as Scotland is further exploited and circles deeper down the pan.
But ho hum, based on your past antics that’s likely what you want anyway…
@DisingenuousDan
Same old same old from the nativists. *YAWNS*
The flavour of xenophobe you are is immaterial. Anyone advocating for franchise restriction disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of Scots is ipso facto a regressive xenophobe.
We all know that BTL here is replete with knuckle dragging dregs who specifically state they’d ban anyone not born in Scotland from participating, or impose ludicrously long residence criteria.
It doesn’t matter to them that virtually no other self determination referendums have used franchises any different, they just airily insist Scotland is somehow unique and the precedent doesn’t apply to us because we’re special because *reasons*.
There is no room for building consensus with extremists: you don’t negotiate with regressive bigots, you face them down.
Nobody is stopping you using your “cunning plans for indy”: we’re just pointing out that your extra parliamentary emperor has no clothes. All this huffing and puffing about the death of political parties and absolutely ZERO evidence of a viable alternative.
You’ve got nothing. Nada. Zilch.
No major political figure supports you. There is little or no legal or constitutional support for your position here or abroad. You have negligible popular support.
If 2026 is a damp squib, then the only ones to blame are Scottish voters themselves for lacking the balls to bring about change. If you’re so convinced it can never happen using parties in the next 2 years, it’s even less likely to be achieved via non-parliamentary or legalistic sleight of hand.
I can’t decide which is more pathetic: your regressive xenophobia or delusional belief in a short cut to independence. The only ones punting the achievement of independence further down the road are you and your moonhowling muckers in here. You make my skin crawl.
Just listened to it, very good.
Personally I think Starmer is so rubbish because he is not being put in place for those particular ‘skills’.
Starmer is going to be horrific. You talked about 1984…
We are living under 12 plus years of Sturgeon but Starmer is an even more bland, even more evil, version of her. They are really very similar. Even the hair…
Starmer is involved in every horrible ‘deep state’ escapade of recent years.
Once he is ‘in’ it a green light for every nightmare to be unleashed. Just as it was the moment Sturgeon was ‘in’.
I also will say that after listening to that podcast that I agree… Nigel Farage is a far more effective politician than Alex Salmond. I am going to be less polite, Alex is naive. That is why Nicola fooled him.
I was naive as well I thought we were going to lead Scotland, a vassal state within a vassal state within a vassal state, out of that ru$$ian doll nightmare, ‘under Marquess of Queensberry rules’, just the same as Alex, we all did, mostly.
He is an absolutely brilliant politician but he conceptually lives a world that never existed. Where decency and honesty and integrity are your axioms.
I especially really don’t know how he still adheres to those beliefs after what was done to him. This is why I have given up on Alex coming back. He has not got an inner Farage, an inner Trump to call on. He is too nice. too decent.
It is not his fault, he is just a good man trying to do good things in a pit of endless shit. It is tragic not just for him but for all of us.
I also think this is why ALBA have been a damp squib, because Alex (post trial) has been a damp squib.
Where is the well justified anger, the moral outrage, the pulsating desire for truth and retribution?
It is puzzling and hugely disappointing. No fucking book either…
I have zero problem understanding why ALBA never even remotely reached take-off velocity. Alex compared to Old Alex is MIA.
He was put through an exceptionally horrific experience… it has maybe dulled his blade.
Dan
Just ignore franchise fanny. He deliberately twists ppls views to fit his own agenda. My views align with yours too regards residency but he does the old tactic of twisting it into racism.
He keeps banging the fck on about it whilst completely ignoring the UKs own franchise which restricts voters in not only referendums but General Elections & soon to include council elections too. Do we hear a peep fae him about that? Nah. It’s just the Scots he has a problem with. We’ve just to throw open our doors & let anyone throw the vote.
There won’t be an indyref. There’ll be a termination. Ten yrs shows the futility of voting in duds to feed at the trough who end up mesmerised with fckn baubles.
I very much doubt it would be held in a domestic setting either but held & overseen externally.
There was hundreds of thousands of *new registrations* in the dying weeks of indyref. If that’s not suspicious I dunno what is.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29024311
Salmond won’t be back either. The establishment will never allow him back in under any circumstances. He’d be better to get behind Salvo & Liberation & get involved with a convention.
What would he achieve now in Holyrood? It’s been carved out under Sturgeons watch & the barstewards at Westminster will keep carving until it’s only the weather left on the agenda. Just as predicted by the Yes movement in 2014 that it would.
It’d be interesting to find out how many NO voters fucked off back to their own countries after the vote. I guess we’ll never know.
@ Geri
Aye, lolz at triggered Ellis away off on that acid trip loop again.
The trauma of years spent battling in the franchise trenches induced flashback has managed to twist me suggesting using the totally radical cunning plan of… checks notes, eh, using a Westminster (where UK constitutional matters are reserved to so has legitimacy) GE franchise for say a straightforward and simple plebiscite at a GE for returning Scotland to self-governance, because another referendum ain’t going to happen unless it’s totally stitched up for Scotland to lose.
I’m therefore not disenfranchising anybody as the Westminster GE franchise is determined by UK Government, so it’s a wee bit out of the control of a no mark such as masel.
But will Ellis (and the mysterious “we” he regularly eludes to speak for) step up for the “international community” and “best practice” and fire off a salvo at Westminster and the Electoral Commission calling them oot for being blood and soil, knuckle dragging, nativist, xenophobic, regressive, moonhowling bigots…
Geri
Thanks for the pointers Geri.
I watched Orban’s speech and I watched him in conversation with some interviewer guy. I don’t know much about Orban and my thoughts about him might be misplaced due to my ignorance, but from what I saw I thought he made a lot of sense.
I liked his, what appeared to be at least, sensible and pragmatic approach to resolving the ongoing conflict in his country’s close neighbour.
And I liked his speeches.
“The greatest thing that can happen to us is to be born Hungarian.” said Orban.
I would say the same for the Scots.
Orban also says “They start wars, tear down worlds, redraw borders, and graze like locusts. They despise the dead and disenfranchise the unborn.”
He speaks of the West in general. But I think his remarks were directed at America in particular.
Of Hungarians he says “Everything we have was given to us by our ancestors, and with the mission to maintain and pass on.”
Again, I would say the same for the Scots.
“They do not want us and our descendants to live here, but someone else.” said Orban in a March 15th Hungarian commemoration speech made 6 years ago.
I think us Scots might find some common feeling there.
He speaks in Hungarian – but rhetoric is a powerful tool in any language.
Thanks again, Geri. I’ll check out the other sources you gave me.
Geri
In replying to a couple of your earlier posts on this thread the Simpsons popped inta ma heid. No idea why, it just did.
I don’t watch much telly but I used to watch the Simpsons on occasion – mainly because of the clever script writing, and it was funny tae.
This scene came to mind:
If Homer Simpson can make a joke about rhetoric, we can be assured that this is not a subject that needs to be intimidating.
Northcode
I don’t follow much of Orban. I agreed with the interview he gave about his own country & the EU trying to erode Hungarian values with the gender nonsense & how it’s become an entity more interested in slavishly serving someone else than it is for the good of their own people.
I gave a list of good sites I follow but it went into moderation.
Two balanced conflict reporting:
The Duran
Alexander Mercouris
Others & watch with guest interviews on everything from BRICS, economy, parliaments, ex military etc..
Dialogue works
Judge Napolitano
Danny Haiphong
Grayzone
Through the eyes of (Polish perspective)
There’s some to dip into if yer interested. It gives a clearer view of world events than you’ll ever find in our news..
Z has put some of them on a hit list so they must be doing something right lol “information terrorists” I think.
Scott Ritter – a frequent guest on many of the above had his passport seized the other day when trying to leave the US. They really have the knives out to block free reporting & intimidate.
Thanks, Geri.
” I agreed with the interview he gave about his own country & the EU trying to erode Hungarian values with the gender nonsense & how it’s become an entity more interested in slavishly serving someone else than it is for the good of their own people.”
Yes. Me too. But beyond that it was the construction of his speeches I was more interested in.
“There’s some to dip into if yer interested”
I am interested. I feel that I should maybe try and understand more about what’s going on in the world at large than I do now.