The debating society
Posted on
April 12, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
With there only having been three hours of the Scottish political party leaders (and Jim Murphy) debating on TV so far this week, and four days to wait for another one, BBC Scotland thought they might need another 40 minutes on this afternoon’s Sunday Politics Scotland to discuss the issues around the forthcoming general election.
It went well, but for busy readers in a hurry we’ve edited the show down to a compact nine-minute cut, which still gets across everything the full version did.
A great example of adult discourse, expertly set. Well done, everyone.
Haw Jim! STFU for 5 seconds while Nicola tells you that while the USA, France, Germany Greece and Shangrti-effing-la have full fiscal autonomy, Scotland doesn’t – but Scotland is still the only one of the countries when put with the oners you mentioned that doesn’t have a serious fiscal problem!
I know where I’d like to shove that magic wand Murphy is bleating on about.
[…] With there only having been three hours of the Scottish political party leaders (and Jim Murphy) debating on TV so far this week, and four days to wait for another one, BBC Scotland thought they might need another 40 minutes on this afternoon’s Sunday Politics Scotland to debate the issues around the forthcoming general election. […]
I found that utterly ridiculous , devoid of any merit and the BBBC should be utterly ashamed of itself.
Why is Ms Davidson considering everything worthy of a belly laugh?
Why is Willie Rennie an MSP?
why is the Labour leader in Scotland just a loud bully?
And why is Gordon Brewer?
This is utter shambles. BBC is an disgrace. I hope, like me, readers from Wings will be writing complaints to the British broadcaster in protest and disgust.
Give me strength! Gave up and skipped ahead after 1 minute and it was just the same… all the way through. Creepy Jim just talking over Nicola at any point an answer was required. Politics Westminster style (with McTernan pulling Creepy Jim’s strings).
9mins long?! eh!
it seems like a lifetime.
state the bleeding obvious, how nicola kept her cool under that tiraid, i’ll never know.
i’m now seriously thinking of joining the snp, i’ve never been a member of any PP in my life time of 63yrs.
nicola has the…..rattled
God help us!
I couldn’t watch it more than half way, it was a complete shambles, though, while admitting prejudice, Nicola Sturgeon came through best and doesn’t get diverted, despite muti-questions, multi-directional.
The other were nowhere, Murphy mixed waffle with speaking loudly.
The incessant drone that is Murphy burbling over everyone’s words (especially Nicola). Jim Murphy has no manners and if he thinks his hectoring, overbearing, whinging, fact-free style will garner votes then he is one sorry ass.
I despair when SNP don’t get put on these programs and despair when they do. Meanwhile the BBC whinges ‘be nice to our lovely unbiased journalists’…
You couldn’t make it up – but Unionists do, of course.
Im just totally amazed at that video, jim needs to learn some manners and not to speak over people, wow, if ever you needed evidence that Scotland is fighting a huge fight, this video is good enough, were just sooo at each others throats.
Clowns. Is there any point in any SNP MP or MSP sitting in a BBC studio now?
Jim Murphy – Boorish, motor-mouthed, prick.
Ruth Davidson – A laughing, sniggering idiot.
Willie Rennie – Utterly irrelevant.
Gordon Brewer – Carrying out his brief for a Unionist
Alliance (setting up Nicola Sturgeon
as an Aunt Sally).
Nicola Sturgeon – Fending off a wolf pack as best she can.
Plain for all to see and an utter disgrace.
What a rammy! Spew Murphy on the Irebru again. Keep it coming ya dafty.
What a broadcasting disaster for the BBC and Gordon Brewer. What a sad joke for BBC license-fee payers. Stop paying for this pish.
I can’t see how that shambles will help the unionist parties in any way.
Thankfully I didn’t watch the original. Utterly woeful stuff.
When I was in the army we had a name for the likes of Murphy, Rennie, Davidson and Brewer. We called them WAFTAM`s
Waste`s of F*****g Time and Money! Seems so very appropriate.
a Fucking car crash.
just WTF was the ‘moderator’ thinking of?
Dont see what everyone is complaining about.
Four unionists against one nationalist.
Seems normal service has been resumed.
Roll on May 7th.
As early as the first question which GBrewer put to Nicola he clearly set out how this “debate” was to be conducted, with his needless interruptions of her first answer and his very telling reliance on index finger jabbing.
The 3 others were effectively encouraged to wreck debate and indulge in indyref2.
The entire aim was to shout down Nicola and shut down her answers.
The only real surprise is that some folks didn’t see this coming.
In the same way the dinosaurs had their time, Scottish Labour have had theirs.
It’s now time for Scotland to move on.
We used to call this bullying
and ganging up on someone.
GOD SAVE US ALL.
“Empty vessels make the most
noise”, I see three very empty
vessels right here. Not a policy
between all three unionist parties.
Jim:’Gordon, are you still here’
Kinda sums it up.
I’m scared that Ruth seemed to be smiling right the way through it …
There is no point having three unionists parties saying essentially the same thing against the SNP. They should be made to chose one to represent the unionist view, or take turns.
That would seems fair to me.
Murphy evidently has ‘issues’ with women, whether they be leaders of political parties or indeed pensioners to be screamed at from atop his Irn Bru crate.
Ma heids sore.
Is anybody surprised that Jim doesn’t know the difference between a generation and a lifetime?
@Hobbit
Has Ruth already seen the postal votes 🙂
Jeezuz! That was hard work.
If that fud treated me the way he was doing to Nicola there I’d punch him!
Holy Mother.
Well, there’s no way I could watch all nine plus minutes of that, but from what I saw, the main blame is on the shoulders of Brewer for not controlling that carnival barking nonsense.
Next is Murphy for the thuggish interruptions followed by Rennie.
I could have done with a couple of Rennies for the indigestion viewing that caused.
Perhaps further in than I dare venture, things improved?
Saying hello to the BBC , and you want to know why we feel you are biased ?
Saying Hello to J Murphy , R Davidson and W Rennie , do you want a clue why you are all just about done in the polls , just listen t yersels?
As Nicola points out …..”Listen to the people”
Brewer ,” join you next Sunday “. You are jokin’ ?
Why is this all about FFA , we ain’t even got Smiffies waste o time p@@h passed yet !
So the format is like the tactical voting espoused by unionist parties. Just gang up on the SNP & everything will be alright.
Complete babble, with Nicola defending four to one, if you include Brewer. She would have been better leaving an empty chair for the four of them to shout at, as he wasn’t allowed to answer anything. Failing that she should ave stuck the heid oan Murphy. What a bam. What an ego. He doesn’t even know he us obnoxious because he is surrounded by media sycophants and Labour numpties.
I did not switch over because of Nicola’s sake, but I am sure many did. After, on the Andrew Neil show one English lass, on a panel of undecided voters, said she did not know the woman’s name but she would have voted for her and wished she was in Scotland to vote for her.
As with the debate in Aberdeen the other day, Jim Murphy will shout everyone down. He’s a bully boy.
Here he is at it again.
Fortunately Nicola has risen to it and is giving as good as she gets.
Remove Murphy from the debate and it becomes just that.
She is on the game with the IndyRef question.
The ppl of Scotland will vote for a manifesto and will vote for that. #OpenDemocracy
Hopefully Murphy will lose his seat …
They are at it again:
.. Project Fear 2
Murphy answered no questions as far as I could see.
The obsession with the indy ref question shows a dead Labour withe nothing to offer.
Excuse me Mr. Murphy could you step outside for a moment.
I think there are some Scottish ladies who would like a wee word with you;-)
Didn’t watch this morning, so glad I didn’t. That was a rabble, that descended into school yard bullying. Gordon Brewer should be thoroughly ashamed for allowing this. It added absolutely nothing to the debate about the election.
The SNP should not be allowing itself to be cornered into these 3 on 1 rammies. Nicola would have been well within her right to just walk out of the studio.
I have a question for the BBC.
What the hell was the point of this Gordon Brewer person being on the *ahem* programme. What an absolute shambles and disgrace to broadcasting in Scotland!
Is the BBC so TERRIFIED of Jim Murphy that they can’t even tell Murphy to shut the @#$% up!
Sunday Politics really should have been renamed the Jim Murphy shouting show!
What the fuck was that???
(Loved Nicola giving Jim the thumbs up at 4:10 incidentally. Legend.)
This made me want to weep in despair .
I think it just shows how incompetent Brewer is. No political journalist worthy of the name could be happy presiding over that mess.
Nicola actually stayed remarkably cool. That will play a lot better than the rabble hoped.
Should the SNP only gain one seat in May, then I hope its belongs to James Francis Murphy (BA Politics, failed).
Just to see that gormless coupon in stunned silence.
The United States and France have fiscal autonomy so Scotland shouldn’t.
Is he actually arguing that?
Or is it that fiscal autonomy makes no difference?
Does Jim’s head hurt, I wonder.
abystander says:
12 April, 2015 at 3:24 pm
The United States and France have fiscal autonomy so Scotland shouldn’t.
Is he actually arguing that?
Or is it that fiscal autonomy makes no difference?
Does Jim’s head hurt, I wonder.
His heid is too big for his tiny brain to register for that.
Sorry this should read she, not he.
“… as he wasn’t allowed to answer anything …”
Davidson comes across so horribly with her laughing and gleeful participation.. She is like the girl you expected to be your friend or at least be supportive but turned the ridicule on scorn on you as soon as the bullies let up on her.
I actually feel hurt and betrayed by the way she acted since I’ve always thought she was at least somewhat decent and I could related to her on the LGBT side of things. I feel unclean now.
Truly abysmal. Gordon Brewer proving that he has all the use of a chocolate teapot when required to control and focus intelligent debate.
Murphy at his obnoxious overbearing worst.
Well that’s 9 minutes of my life I’m not getting back.
Have the BBC absolutely no-one who can controll a debate ???
The best of the bollox this weekend is the threat to replace the BBC in Scotland.
I’m seeing no real issues with that now.
I read the comments and skipped the video – 9 minutes of my life saved!
Absolutely disgraceful performance by Messrs Shouty Murphy & Ignorant Rennie aided and abetted by manic laughter from Ms Davidson. The Charing was non existent and actually supported schoolyard bully boy tactics by not giving Ms Sturgeon time to answer without interruption or being talked over. Antipathy towards Labour, Liberal and Tory parties must have surged in anyone watching this fiasco. Hats off to Nicola Sturgeon for not loosing her cool while being ganged up on by these 3 bullyboys and their willing stooge Ruth Davidson.
Hi Fred , me too I’m nearly 60 and never been in a Union or PP , this caper has fair got ma gander up, fairly revelled , like our ” Almanniesbunnet ” said yesterday , fairly gettin to be a cantankerous aul c@nt !
Letter to BBC and join SNP seams the order of the day .
Give me strength!
heedtracker wrote:
“Clowns. Is there any point in any SNP MP or MSP sitting in a BBC studio now?”
Correction, my friend, clowns are funny.
That lot are nothing more than a bunch of big mouthed bullies.
If you try and listen carefully you can even hear one of the tag-team (Ruthie) whinging to Brewer about the dominance and amount of time given to Dimbo.
BBC and their Unionists – COWARDLY ERSEWIPES, the lot of them.
I watched a bit of this 4 against 1. No often I’m lost for expletives.
I forced myself to watch this to remind myself that the current system of government simply has to end.
In what other universe would this nonsense be allowed. I worked for forty years in the oil and gas industry and never would anything like this ever be tolerated in a board room, or at any business meeting at any level without heads rolling.
@heedtracker 3.10: Agree 100%. It would be better if the SNP boycotted BBC appearances because there is no upside whatsoever to our appearing. It actually scares me that with three plus weeks to go this will only get worse.
So much of what we laughingly consider to be democracy in the UK is badly, badly broken–probably Humpty Dumptied for that matter. We need to get independence one way or another.
@fredblogger: I am will you. Never been a member of a political party. But tomorrow I will join the SNP.
Watching even that portion again makes me want to wrap Jim Murphy in cling film, cover him in tomato sauce and leave him outside on a hot day and watch as he squirms while little beasties nibble at him.
Totally unenjoyable. Bullying at its worst and I think Murphy, Davidson and Rennie acted in a reprehensible manner. There goes any chance of ever supporting their parties and I’m tempted to make a Twitter account to let Davidson know how she has totally just lost the support of someone who actually quite liked her despite her political leanings. I hope the Greens take her spot in Glasgow come 2016.
No question from the bbc funnily enough as to how you can have austerity and grow the economy.
Why don’t they just put up a single candidate under the bettertogether banner,because keeping the benefits cap, for example, is a Tory policy seemingly supported by all parties here except the snp. Tells me all I need to know.
The referendum is over,you won,get over it.
Next time,if they don’t want UK citizens to be in government,these parties should vote YES instead.
Wulls says:
12 April, 2015 at 3:28 pm
Well that’s 9 minutes of my life I’m not getting back.
I wished I could say the same except it’s 30 minutes of my life I won’t get back, I sat through it all in support of Nicola and to be fair, there was one moment during that farce when I let out a cheer and Nicola swiftly pointed it out.
Jim Murphy stated he would do exactly the same as Nicola suggested whilst using FFA to reduce the “Black Hole”. Jim was silenced just for a moment, I just wished that Gordon was as quick to bring Jim on that point and pressed him as to why he is agreeing that the SNP suggestion is a good one.
Horrible to watch.Couldn’t believe the outright bullying was allowed and the collective ganging up.Very disturbing.
Yikes! so stupid on so many levels.
No moderator taking any control.
No courtesy shown after any question asked.
A complete joke in terms of broadcasting.
I kept waiting for Nicola to get up and walk out as the only way to lend dignity to the whole fiasco.
The only salient comment from Jim Murphy was the question: “Are you still here, Gordon?”
Yes …let’s all laugh as we 3 Unionist Leaders jump on the lady who is trying to explain her position. Oh, how the electorate will love that!
Honestly, I had to stop watching. That was brutally awful.
If I was Nicola …I would stop going on political shows like this. It’s just a pure witch hunt.
That was simply awful. My admiration for Nicola for keeping her cool is now higher than ever.
Me, I’d have lost it and would probably have beaten Murphy to a pulp, but I suspect that’s what he wants.
5.07 Jim Murphy says in a loud and authoritative manner, “Just 1 second….just 1 second” has this troll got any self awareness at all????
No doubt all his wee lap dugs like Dugdale, Nash, Curren etc will think he’s da man…oooft!
Murphy’s plan is just to spout all his own drivel and not listen to anyone else.
And a wee Ps to Rennie……whats the point in you???
Always remenber they did try this just before the 2011 scottish elections as well when the panic set in.
Maybe not quite as blatant as Brewer’s jawdropping incompetence and the blatant BBC bias here but pretty damn close to it at times.
Turns out the scottish public weren’t interested in the unionist media and unionist parties dirty tricks and lies and voted in the SNP with a LANDSLIDE.
So if they want to keep repeating the same bias and stupidity over and over again then they shouldn’t act surprised when the scottish public hammers them for it.
disgusting behaviour.
A new three wise monkeys meme
See nothing clever – Rennie
Hear nothing clever – Davidson
Say nothing clever – Murphy
Blind, Deaf and Dumb… and all three wholly ignorant.
Forced myself to watch your wee 9 minute clip.
A complete waste of everyone’s time.
Incoherent rubbish which resulted in a real headache.
Obvious bullying, shouting and trying to steal the show.
An utter disgrace to call this Politics.
Anyone in the rest of the UK watching this must think we are a shower of idiots. If this is the very best that Scotland has in terms of Political leaders we are doooomed……………..!!!!
I thought Game of Thrones was Sky Atlantic…either way…Winter is Coming!
I canna handle that pish – the 3 parties in Scotland that represent England also all joined together once again with nothing what so ever to say in any policies. There only policy is “SNP bad, Scotland too poor to stupid”.
Nicola is doing very well not to start shouting at them and losing it. Well done FM. Keep it up I know it’s hard. On the 8th of may win or lose 20,30,50 mp whatever give it too them both barrels after then. But right now total respect for the way your holding it together.
#ShoutLouderJim
Dont be daft folks .Brewer and the BBC set out to get this result. They wish to shame Scotland and they succeeded!
I do not know what Nicola could have done differently other than to ask Brewer to chair properly but even that could have backfired.
I watched the whole tirade.
I might have imagined or misheard Lord Jim.
While he slated and shouted at Nicola Sturgeon about growing the economy to reduce the deficit. He, and I’m sure I heard Nicola Sturgeon trying to make the point, [couldn’t really hear for Shouty Jim] admited that labour’s strategy would involve growing the economy to help reduce the deficit.
So labour good and SNP bad yet again, Davidson didn’t even blink at Shouty Jim’s admission.
I would watch it again but i’m scared I would smash my TV listening to the School bully and his acolites ganging up on Nicola sturgeon. The presenter, didn’t catch his name, was scrupulously fair in allowing Rennie, Davidson and murphy equal time to talk over and ignore anything Sturgeon said.
All in all a well balanced attack on the SNP.
Might try and rewatch later in the week when I’ve calmed down.
Decided however to vote tactically. I will vote SNP to keep Shouty, Happy and Invisible angry.
At what point do they realise that their bullying and scare-mongering doesn’t work? The polls show the gap is getting wider, with SNP support rising.
Murphy whose family moved to South Africa to take advantage of the Apartheid system, by his own admission, seems to forget that the poor and downtrodden people here, unlike those he left behind in South Africa, actually have a vote.
And if the SNP put another referendum on their 2016 manifesto and people vote for it, who the hell is he to stand in the way of that?
If it was up to me, a referendum would be on every SNP manifesto from here to eternity as a point of principle.
Peter Curran has put up a series of interesting clips.
link to moridura.blogspot.co.uk
I got through 6 minutes of that “Stair Heed Rammy” before I switched off….The unionists (all three parties)just ganged up on wee nicky and wouldn’t let her answer a question before shouting her out….Thank god* for the internet where we can at least read the answers to the questions put to her…
.
.
.
*God used for illustrative purposes only. Other deities are available although results/existence is not guaranteed
I gave it a minute and had to turn it off.
Unbelievable.
I hope the unionists take one hell of a beating come #GE15
So we waited over 300 years for the first referendum on Scottish Independence and now, within 7 months of the first one we’re already hearing lots of talk about the second one!!! Anyone else feeling the inevitability of a free Scotland soon?
Here are the results of the shout’O’meter analysis
– Sturgeon 11%
– Davidson 15%
– Rennie 32%
– Brewer 77%
– Murphy 125%
Murphy scores more than 100% because no common sense could be heard either from what he said or from what the others tried to say while he drowned them out.
It is seriously scary that Jim Murphy is allowed to get away with his bullying and hectoring and never answering any questions. He and Ruth Davidson are a double act just there to bully Nicola Sturgeon. I will never ever vote labour again.
@ Stoker, but its a clear tactical decision to get in there and go mental at Sturgeon as a gruesome threesome. Why not, they have nothing to lose now.
So it has to be decided why any SNP MP or MSP should get involved with this level of BBC corruption, as its no longer debate. Creepy Murphy was having the time of his life, Davidson was allowed to waffle away uninterrupted like some kind of royalty and Rennie was only there to pile in to the chimps tea party.
If it was bad for creepy Morphy and SLab, the BBC wouldn’t do it.
Didn’t realise Wings is into sado-masochism.
Saw it on the box. Unwatchable then, unwatchable now.
Oh and is there a bigger prize twat in scottish politics than Willie Rennie? That’s a trick question of course since it’s his boss Alistair “dirty tricks” Carmichael who is still cowering away and hiding. 😉
The dimwitted nobody Rennie is going to preside over not just the complete annihilation of the yellow tory MSPs in 2011 but also the obliteration of the yellow tory ‘scottish’ MPs in a few short weeks time. Job done, eh wullie? LOL 😀
There will be nobody laughing harder than the scottish public when the unprincipled yellow tories get booted out on their arse.
Murphy is a shouty embarrassment but then he was always a shouty embarrassment and has somehow managed to make Lamont look like a political giant (Lamont is way more popular than the Murphy is among what Labour voters and supporters they have left) after his utterly catastrophic few months as ‘scottish’ Labour leader.
Brewer should now be put in charge of some moronic daytime TV pish where he can’t do any more harm as he self-evidently couldn’t run a bath.
This is still scotland’s first minister and if you think the westminster establishment BBC would treat Cameron like that you’re living on another planet.
It was a disgrace of a programme, and as I said recently, we all complained, (as did some people from within the BBC) about London sending up the ‘Big Boys’ to deal with the important parts of the Scottish Referendum’ however Brewer shows that as a matter of fact, the BBC were quite right, to do this.
He was completely unable to handle Jim Murphy’s constant interruptions.
However, one very important slip-up from Murphy, was him admitting that the way to clear the deficit, was to ‘grow the economy’ an incredible admission, that Nicola immediately picked up on, yet Brewer didn’t even seem to notice!
Please tell me that there is not one single person on here who is still paying their TV license.
What we Do In Life Echoes In Eternity.
This bullyfest reminded me of the last scene from Gladiator, with the lone general fighting single-handedly the evil emperor, (Murphy),the corrupt senators watching from the sidelines, (Rennie, Davidson) and the Praetorian Guard (the BBC).
“My name is Nicola Maximus Sturgeonus.
Commander of the armies of the north.
General of the 45 legion and loyal servant to the people of Scotland.
Mother to a murdered Referendum.
Daughter to a murdered nation.
And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the 7th May!”
😉
@UncleBob – “Anyone in the rest of the UK watching this must think we are a shower of idiots”
That’s probably the idea, the BBC are quite good at that kind of sneaky stuff
rammy, one big rammy
I am confused by the discussions on the 7.6bn deficit under FFA. Currently the UK has about 100bn deficit which gives Scotland a share of about 8.5bn. Does this not mean we are better off.
I have tried reading the IFS report and ended less enlightened. It would appear their prediction assume the UK will reduce the deficit as predicted (not having done so in the last 5 years)and Scotland will do nothing.
It would be great if they referred to her as first minister, at one minute willie rennie is all over her chair and almost touches her as if to pull her hand down.
Je Sui Stunned & Speechless
The BBC has a responsibility, to ensure their role within an election is even handed. They utterly failed with this charade of political coverage today. They are a Westminster propagandist, and unionist apologist outfit par excellence.
Maybe now it is time for the SNP to consider not participating in BBC programmes until they get their f’ing act together, since this today was just an insult to both viewers and the First Minister.
I must say, Murphy does not seem to have ANY awareness of how aggressive he can appear. I can only assume Nicola will have even more fans now than before.
That all misses the point thought. Nicola Sturgeon is the democratically elected First Minister of Scotland, heading a Scottish Government with a thumping mandate from the electorate. The disrespectful way in which she has been treated by the three clowns from the unionist cabal and the BBC today is nothing short of a disgrace.
Getting downright sick of this sneering disrespectful way in which the media and unionists seem to behave towards the First Minister. Time the BBC, SKY, unionist leaders and others just took a big step back and thought on how they treat Scotland’s leader. It is all well and good to question policy, but this blatant contempt throughout the media for OUR Scottish First Minister, and her office, is bang out of order. Enough.
Watched it Brewster was terrible,Nicola Sturgeon was the only one offering something other than austerity.
Jim Murphy wasn’t even man enough to admit Labour would make deep cuts,to the spending budget.
Ruth Davidson was surprisingly subdued,apart from her frantic letter waving episode,and wee Willie Rennie,well what can you say about Willie, that doesn’t end with the word irrelevant.
Disgraceful, I had to switch off the tv this morning. How do you protest in numbers in a petition about Gordon Brewer? He is always the same. Is it “sum of us”
What a painful watch, had to take an aspirin half way through.
Does Smurphy ever shut up? What an ignorant, ignorant man.
No wonder people are being switched off with his hot air.
I’m off to lie down in a dark room for a bit.
Only the SNP will stick up for Scotland.
My God, but the BBC is desperate to plug the three unionist parties! Where was Patrick Harvie? The Greens have more members in Scotland than the Lib Dems.
Why have the Holyrood leaders on AGAIN? Why not Hosie, Murphy, Fluffy and Carbuncle, for example, all of whom are standing for WM? Is it to try and make Ruthy of the 1800 votes or Rennie vaguely relevant?
Word on Twitter is that even more people put off today by Murphy. I always say, he is the gift that keeps giving. If you wanted to dream up the worst person to put in charge of Scottish Red Tories, you simply could not have a better person than Mr Shoutie. Bad as Lamont was, she would not have led them to almost complete extinction in Scotland.
If anyone thinks ANY WIMMIN from Glesga is incapable of standing up to three Wastemonger bullies and coming out on top, they have another think coming! Go, Nicola!!
Are the SNP Masochists?Why do they bother doing these shows?
@UncleBob.
I believe that is exactly the effect that was intended. A pretty disgraceful display by the British but Nicola to her credit kept calm and adult in the face of concerted bullying by Scotland’s enemies.
I know some of you don’t do ‘twitter’ but there was a post yesterday about Jim Murphy’s debating tactics, and believe it or not, he isn’t just rambling on, but in fact following a well known debating tactic, called ‘Gish Galloping’ ( that’s ‘Gish’)
Gish Galloping is a technique in which the debater (jim Murphy) throws out a whole load of minor accusations or challenges to their opponent knowing that the opponent wont have time to answer them all. it’s best if the accusations, points, are simple to make but complex to answer properly. while the other person (Nicola) is trying to answer the Gish Galloper should interrupt with other points or accusations.
The technique is used mostly by people who don’t have any genuine or honest arguments that they think they can win.
Jim Murphy is a Gish Galloper! so don’t expect him to answer questions or not interrupt Nicola or anyone else.
Does the BBC know this? if yes why do they allow him to do this on air, if No, why not?
I refer you all to earlier post New Poll Figures follow TV Debate – The Slack Bladder.
So,to move on Liberal Democrat and Board Member of Forward Together Victor Clements is promoting tactical voting and states explicitly in The Sunday Herald he will be voting Conservative in Perth and North Perthshire .
Clause 3.7e of the Liberal Democratic Party states
3.7 e
Membership may be revoked by a Local Party………
(e) membership of or support for another political party in Great Britain.
So, assuming he is an honourable chap has he resigned or have the party removed his membership.
Finally watched the rammy that was Sunday Politics Scotland and what a disaster the show was. Had I known this short clip was up I could have saved myself the misery!
As people have pointed out, Gordon Brewer spent an inordinate amount of time at the start challenging Nicola Sturgeon over the IFS “black hole” claim without listening to an answer, interrupting and hectoring rudely throughout. Then followed half an hour of “lets get Nicola” from the three Unionists and GB. All they succeeded in doing is demonstrate what a bunch of charmless bullies they are.
Nicola did very well to keep calm and carry on, getting her points across in the brief spaces between the shouting. I would expect another hike in SNP membership to follow.
If this is the best the BBC can do, then we are well rid. Brewer is a shambles and as others have said above, Murphy is an ignorant bully.
Jim Murphy is disgraceful.
Gordon Brewer is disgraceful.
The BBC are disgraceful.
I’d almost given up writing complaints to the BBC seeing as it’s so utterly pointless, but at some point they will have to begin to get a sense of seeing themselves as others see them.
Brewer should resign. Or be sacked. End of.
There will be no need for Chris Cairns to create caricatures of Murphy, Rennie or Davidson.
They have kindly provided us with their own ones.
David Smith 4.12,
Well said.
Wingman 2020:
You are spot on. I cancelled my tv licence after the Referendum as the BBC was then and still is shocking. If anything it’s getting even worse.
I refuse to pay these idiots another penny. It’s like a third world country they way our media ‘represent’ us.
A brilliant clip Rev. Did those three idiots not realise that they were on camera? You can sense the fear beneath the bluster. Every time Jim Murphy appears on one of these debates he reveals his true nasty nature more and more. This can only mean more votes for the SNP.
Who cuts Jim Murphy’s hair these days, Edward Scissorhands?
What a train wreck! Does the BBC think this rates as infotainment? more like Jeremy Kyle!
O/T for any over 65’s, SNP membership is only a fiver and you will be made welcome. I know, I’m going on 68 and I joined in Feb.
Sounded like a gestapo interrogation rather than an interview.
I’m beginning to like old Brillo pad now (Andrew Neil). He has fair matured, whist some of the others have degenerated.
God almighty, what a shambles.
Clearly, the three Unionist leaders were determined not to allow Nicola Sturgeon to finish a sentence – aided and abetted by Gordon Brewer.
Awful. Added nothing to the debate. Turned off voters.
*light bulb moment* maybe that was the whole point!
Any Wingers like to sign this wee petition that’s almost reached 100k already? I suspect, if you’ve watched this and STILL pay this tax that you might not want to any more 😉
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
Remember “Scary, Shouty, Sneering – Ned Murphy” will be reported in the Herald by Gardham as Labour score major tactical hits on SNP black hole fantasy economics via reasoned argument; despite BBC bias and format that helped SNP. “Joan of Arc Davidson” defends the Union against SNP low shots yet again and Willie Rennie who he ?
And all the other British press outlets will follow suit
National excluded of course.
Scotland you know how this works by now surely 😉
Well there IS one Brewer in Scotland able organize a really good dust-up. I wonder if he could perhaps also organize a half-decent piss-up?
Patrick Roden 4.12
Jim Murphy is a Pish Galloper.
Sorry. Couldn’t watch any more than 3 minutes.
What a total and utter disgrace.
It’s like watching kids in the playground instead of four party leaders.
How Ruth and Jim can laugh at what is occuring is a sight for sore eyes and the should be ashamed of themselves.
As for Gordon Brewer he should be sacked and banned from TV and politics sin-di.
I have rarely watch the BEEB, STV or ITV since 18th September and this mornings fiasco means that things won’t change in the near future.
I actually don’t see the point for a Scottish Leaders debate.
It achieves absolutely nothing as what is debated is what is happening in Scotland with matters that are mostly devolved.
Mind you it tells us exactly how things are going pan out come 2016.
In my eyes, Nicola is fighting for Scotland and for Scotland only and stands up for us very, very well and the others are running scared, but she is always going to be ganged-up with the UK Unionist Parties. They can put Scotland in their names, but they are NOT Scottish.
Nicola will never be given free reign to put her answers out clearly so long as the chairs / presenters are so biased towards the other three and who sit back and let these shambolic, disgraceful and disrespectful attacks happen.
I personally think the Stuart Hosie should be there as he is the leader of the SNP in Westminster and put things from his perspective.
I’ve already made a complaint to BBC, here’s a link if you wish to do likewise – link to ssl.bbc.co.uk
[…] The debating society […]
Couldn’t watch that. What a disgusting piece of political crap Murphy is. Not worthy of representing anyone. Tick tock
Just shows up the lack of talent in BBC Scotland. Debates should have rules, and the person in charge should apply these rules without fear or favor.
It wasn’t even the Marquis of effen Queensbury rules in this “debate”
Looks like BBC Scotland is dying along with the Labour Party.
Won’t miss it.
Just makes me more determined to unseat our local MP.
tick tock, tick tock.
I’ve been asking Labour this, in writing, every day since last Tuesday but they won’t reply…
“In the Labour Party election literature it states that the minimum wage will rise to £8.00 per hour by 2020. However the leader of Scottish Labour, Jim Murphy, said the minimum wage figure would rise to £8.50, he stated this on the televised Leaders’ debate in Scotland.
Does this mean Labour are proposing different rates of minimum wage on either side of the border? I think this would be unfair!”
….. See getting a straight answer out of that Labour Party, it’s like talking to that Jim Murphy!!
Watched some of it again. If anyone behaved like Murphy in a pub, club or play school they would be shown the door. Probably by a couple of very large, polite bouncers (or someone’s wee granny, which would be even more scary)
This debate was for GE15, not Holyrood 2016. It should have been SLAB and the SNP attack Tory/LibDems record in government. Brewer set this up straight away by questioning Nicola, not the current Westminster government. Completely biased.
Loved up relationship between Davidson/Murphy! They’ll be no surprises when at 08.10 on May the 8th we see a coalition announced between Labour and the Tories.
Murphy, Davidson, Rennie and Brewer need to get proper jobs for a while just to bring them back down to earth.
Nicola Sturgeon is a world class politician. The last 2 weeks have proved that beyond doubt.
To all those saying Nicola should walk out or not take part, NO. That’s playing right into their hands. I understand the feeling but she is taking one for the team, boy is she ever! By subjecting herself to this abuse she is exposing the opposition for what it is, truly reprehensible. She is an absolute gem and deserves all our support to kick these clowns out of politics and out of Scotland. If you’re thinking of joining then don’t faff about go for it. £12 per year, £5 for over 60’s. Let’s give Nicola a post BBC Sunday politics spike. If every time they attack, the membership goes up, we will eventually drive them completely crazy. Jim has only a small step to go. 🙂
It’s a bit like Lionel Messi playing against Joey Barton, Rino Gattuso and Nigel de Jong. But I can’t think of a referee who comes close to fitting the bill.
The BBC basically facilitating (yet again) the shouting down of a woman by a large man with a big voice to prevent her being heard.
I have called in a complaint – pointing out how the BBC appears to be able to manage these sorts of occasions in NI – and asking what they cannot do the same in Scotland.
Sexism writ large
I do not think Sturgeon or Hosie or any SNP politicians can avoid or hide from this debate. They have to partake of the debate or the rhetoric of the opposition will go unchallenged. Thankfully, Sturgeon and Hosie (and the rest) are more than able for the rabble rousers and their vitriolic, unprincipled nonsense. That was a four against one knockout of the four by the one and I for one am glad that clip is out there for the world to see. If Murphy, Davidson or Rennie are under any illusions that they enhanced their position or their profile or their party today; they are utterly mistaken. However, the prize for biggest disappointment goes to Ruth Davidson. Her cackling and heckling were unworthy of her, or so I previously believed. All respect for her totally gone. They all clearly believed there was safety in numbers and that feeding frenzy renders them as bad as each other. Despicable behavior.
Dear me, that was like a bunch of overbearing drunks in the pub all shouting over the top of one another.
I did think it was classic when Murphy, one of the most insincere politicians I have ever seen (even more than most Tories) tried to claim some high ground as a bastion of honesty? Who the hell is this charlatan trying to kid? Slither off.
I think Jim Murphy out ranks Gordon Brewer in the BBC Scotland hierarchy.
The objective of ensuring the public got no meaningful information was achieved. Jim had the bonus of slipping in several lies.
What an absolute farce, they should all be ashamed of themselves! I take it that Brewer doesn’t have any children because if that had been me in his place they’d have all been sitting on the naughty step within the first 2mins.
When I was training the dog to walk on the lead the most effective way I found of stopping her pulling was to stop dead every time the lead went tight. She soon got the idea that if she wanted to get anywhere, pulling wasn’t going to work.
Maybe Nicola could try something similar with Murphy? Every time he opens his mouth she should stop talking, don’t keep trying to talk through him. Wait until he runs out of steam, the restart with “are you finished now?”. When he inevitably starts talking over her again, stop talking again. I bet he soon gets the idea, and it’s going to highlight just exactly how rude he’s being.
@Brian Powell says: 12 April, 2015 at 3:07 pm:
” … while admitting prejudice, Nicola Sturgeon came through best and doesn’t get diverted.
The Murphy was working in the belief that if he could stop Nicola getting to speak she had no chance of catching him out. Yet the only salient part of the entire shambles that could be deciphered was Nicola when Nicola did catch slippery Jim out.
There’s something about the Murphy reminds me of, “Hissing Sid”. Mind you Hissing Sid was Innocent, (or so the campaign of the time said).
link to youtube.com
I wondered whether James Kelly’s comments on Scot Goes Pop about the house rules for televised debates were a bit excessive.
Now I see that they were spot on.
Not an easy job for Mr. Brewer, but still….
Brewer, the producer and their bosses should be forced to watch a rerun of this performance. Not that they are capable of any shame, but you might think that they had the intelligence to see the harm they have done their cause by abandoning all pretence of impartiality. I guess they are so desperate and afraid that the gravy train is coming to an end that they are past caring.
The Jim Reaper strikes again scaring pensioners like 2014
Paul says:@ 4:23
re end licence fee petition.
I refused to sign this as it only adds support to a direct tax of every citizen ( sorry, Loyal Subject ! ) to fund the BBC. At the moment I have no TV, so don’t pay, under the 38Degrees alternative I would have to pay. A direct tax is already being muted, to deal with the number of Licence fee ‘refusniks’
At the moment a least I can derive a wee bit of satisfaction in knowing that I don’t fund it – this would be removed by a direct tax.
The problem is not really, ‘how it’s funded’ – the problem is ‘it’s bullshit propaganda’
I have never posted abuse online but Murphy is less of a Nawbag and more of a Bawbag than ever before!
Serious question – would the SNP be allowed to use 5 minutes of ‘highlights’ from this rammy as their next party political broadcast? If not, could they do a Spitting Image type spoof instead?
Should be worth a few hundred more members and tens of thousands more votes to set out the contrast between the vision and leadership qualities of the SNP and the Westminster parties so starkly.
Watch the full thing again on i-player minus the anger that a first viewing provokes.
What shines through is an incredible and coherent performance from Nicola Sturgeon under incredibly difficult circumstances. Not many could stand up to that level of animosity and that was just the presenter! The First Minister is a worthy champion of our cause.
Murphy and Davidson happy to be Better Together once again. So much for a 2 horse race when you have a red and blue Tory tag team ganging up on the First Minister.
It’s clear where they see the threat coming from.
I joined snp after frenchgate. Believe me, snp membership is going to continue to grow, as people wake up to whats really going on in politics.
Thanks to WOS and sites like it, we are being shown the truth.
I am not politically minded and only woke up a month before the referendum.
I was always going to vote yes so didn’t really follow the campaign til about a month before.
I stopped watching BBC because every story was negative towards anything to do with Scotland running its own affairs and went online and by god, did I get my eyes opened!
I have never looked back since then, I get my news from WOS mainly and have a lot of respect for rev stu and all the work he is doing on our behalf and just want to say thank you!
What would the 3 of them talk about if sturgeon wasn’t there. Imagine if they had to talk about there own ideas. But they wouldn’t would they as there in full referendum mode once again.
Managed six excruciating minutes. I deserve a prize.
@Almannysbunnet said:
“If every time they attack, the membership goes up, we will eventually drive them completely crazy. Jim has only a small step to go”. 🙂
—————————————————-
Ha Ha! Your right there!
Do we have the best team running the SNP and currently in charge of Scotland (within the limited powers allowed by WM)of course.
Sturgeon grows in stature everytime she steps up to the plate on our behalf (that includes all of Scotland’s folk)
Not long to endure now, the storm it will suddenly disappear and there will be calm, followed by an acceptance, over time, that Scotland is entitled to look after her own destiny.
In a few years all will wonder why we waited so long. 🙂
wingman 2020 wrote:
“Please tell me that there is not one single person on here who is still paying their TV license.”
Nope, not me, i wouldn’t give them the steam off my shite.
Nor would i help to promote dodgy sites such as 38Degrees.
_________
chossy wrote:
“It would be great if they referred to her as first minister, at one minute willie rennie is all over her chair and almost touches her as if to pull her hand down.”
Yes, i also clocked his intimidation attempts at invading her space.
Overbearing little sissy would have been sent flying over his chair had he started that game with me.
Lucky for him our First Minister is both tolerant and intelligent.
The main victims of this shambles are, of course, the viewing public.
STOP THESE FLIPPIN’ DEBATES NOW. THEY ARE A SHAMBLES!
(deliberate use of less offensive pejorative and upper case)
Our First Minister Nicola did really well against 2 list MSP’s and the Labour backbencher who was the big bully, with the other 2 gleefully joning in.
Only one person came out of this well, she may have been feeling a wee bit bruised, but I’d hate to be the other 3 when she gets them one to one.
Back out leafleting tomorrow, day of rest today.
@David Smith says: 12 April, 2015 at 3:18 pm:
” … If that fud treated me the way he was doing to Nicola there I’d punch him!”
There are ways in debate to deal with the Murphy’s of this World. When they interrupt you gesture with your hand, “Over to you”, then sit down and pointedly ignore them. Their usual reaction is feel stupid and to just taper out to silence. Then you say, “If its all right by you I’ll start again”.
You’re not going to lose anything anyway for their sole object was to prevent you having a say.
What you DO NOT DO is say, “Help Me Rhonna”! For by pointedly handing over to your opponent(s), you have already wrong footed the Chairperson as well as your opponent. Both will seek to NOT be wrong footed again.
Joined many others in sending a complaint to the BBC.
Asked them whether any other democratically elected leader of another European nation would be treated in such a revolting attack mode. Rabid dogs at a bone.
Congratulated the BBC on the likely further increase in SNP membership (during the real time transmission of this disrespectful debacle) and SNP voting come May. Wondered too, whether Mr Murphy bawling and yelling was an attractive vote winner to disillusioned ex-Labour – particularly Labour women.
It was so bad it had to be deliberate?
However, great catch with the tottering intellect that is JM that “growing the economy” to reduce the deficit is the way to do it – sweet. At last Jim supports SNP policy and the Nobel Laureate Professor Joseph Stiglitz. Miss Sturgeon who spotted JM’s admission didn’t let that go without comment and a knowing thumb’s up. Thanks Jim.
I lasted 2min. The plan must be to create total dismay that no one votes.
Surely there must be someone within BBC Scotland who feels the smallest scintilla of shame at broadcasts like this.
That is why I send complaints to them ( Google BBC Complaints) in the hope, possibly misplaced, that an avalanche of disgust will get through and stir a conscience or two.
OK. I’m naive.
The BBC have for the past eight years been running this Better Together media campaign deliberately and remorselessly.
This latest disgrace is just a culmination (so far) of that policy.
The point is that now the ‘journalists’ in the BBC have colluded and prostituted themselves to such a degree to keep their jobs that they have sacrificed all their integrity and reputations to achieve this.
Brewer and Cox have performed so abysmally over the past few weeks that they have no credibility left. Resignation must be an obvious option.
Boothman and MacQuarrie must also be called to account by the Scottish Government. They are producing this warped propaganda. Although McTernan and Cameron are the real puppet masters.
To describe Ruth Davidson and Jim Murphy as politicians is a grotesque lie. One a fat principal boy who did voice overs grinning like the fool she is and the other a sociopathic liar and bully. Willie Rennie is just pond life.
Nicola Sturgeon should have stopped speaking and demanded Brewer control the others. Unfortunately, she allowed herself to be dragged into the game set up by the BBC and the BT cartel.
I’ve been saying this from well before the REF that we collectively had to stop and challenge the BBC before they tipped the balance. The Yes campaign and SNP refused to dirty their hands with an all out attack.
I believe that if the SG don’t react to this blatant campaign of disinformation and majoring of Murphy’s ugly persona that it still could backfire on us. They have more shite up their sleeve to throw. Don’t let them!
I watched all of it. Brewer lost control of the debate from virtually the start. Murphy was constantly trying to drown out Sturgeon, Davidson was not much better. I thought Rennie looked a bit embrassed with the antics of Murphy and Davidson.
I have no idea why Ruth Davidson keeps on bringing out bits of paper during debates? She did it during one of the referendum campaign debates as well. I don`t think I have ever seen another politician do this during debates. It is very strange behaviour. I don’t think it is just Murphy that has anger mamagement problems! The one thing I learned watching it is that Davidson hates Sturgeon and the SNP as much as Murphy does. The hatred is palpable.
What an absolutely disgraceful spectacle that was.
What or who does Jim Murphy think he represents? He is supposed to be of the political class…informed, considered and measured, albeit forceful at times.
Murphy’s approach in that so called debate came across, yet again, as that you would see in the leader of a baying mob of misogynists.
This is surely not the under-class of politician we ever want to see sitting in Holyrood (East Renfrewshire, please note)
Mr Murphy; unless you can pause to hear & understand your enemy (opponent) you will never defeat them for the simple reason you do not know how. Your prepared dogmatic soundbite approach that pays no heed to what the populace are saying is getting you and your party absolutely nowhere.
You personally are not a fit and proper person to be involved in the consensual politics that have so enriched Scotland over the past decade.
Further, you and your fellow Unionist bedfellows (and that includes BBC Scotland) appear blind to the fundamentals of democracy threading through all these referendum and elections debates.
Badgering Nicola Sturgeon and/or any member of the SNP may make good broadcasting for any of your dwindling support, but if the people are democratically voting for change in 2015, then accept it…it is…the peoples choice.
The same approach should be accepted in 2016, especially if the SNP should include Referendum 2 in their manifesto.
If the majority want a referendum, they’ll vote for it via SNP…otherwise we will be having a change of Holyrood governance…and “no referendum for a generation” presumably.
As for BBC Scotland. Hang your heads. You have long lost the ability to function impartially and have certainly lost the trust of many to be honest journalists with the simple task of independent and fair reporting.
Your duplicitous arrogance in not reflecting the changes sweeping across Scotland is so blatant and well documented. With the advent of new & emerging independent broadcasters, what a relief in this modern age for this and future generations not being held to your skewed interpretation of Scottish life.
Ahmen.
Just had a conversation with a person from Hamburg – here in Hamburg. She asked me about the referendum. I said I voted YES but the vote was rigged and we lost. She answered – yes that is what everyone here is saying too. Believe me no one from our erstwhile Hanseatic allies has lost faith. As far as Hamburg is concerned the vote was rigged. They love Scotland and the Scots.
Last week a senior BBC executive was getting hot under the collar about the perceived abuse of James Cook by SNP supporters. She could not understand the issue as she said he was only doing his job (for the Union).
If she looked at Brewers programme today she would be in no doubt why viewers get so angry. This really is pathetic stuff. We have a presenter who is clearly way out of his depth. he would not know a balanced view if it kicked him in the arse.
We should not be surprised as he is only toeing the BBC party line of support unionism at ANY cost and to hell with the rest.
Whilst being very angry I sincerely hope they keep doing these programmes. Its the best recruiting Sergeant the SNP has and best of all its free.
Keep it up BBC (the loyal and blatant sub cretins of the westminster establishment)
Mealer – “Jim Murphy is a Pish Galloper.”
I think you mean he’s pish, and he’s a walloper.
Completely and utterly disgraceful to call that a debate of ANY sort
Even with the shortened ‘highlights’ above, did feel I would have been reaching for the revolver, Can of petrol AND Noose to put myself out of the misery of watching it any further!
What was very funny was seeing Ruth start to try and talk over Nicola, but had the fog horn tones of Murphy in her right ear, which made her glance round. She tries to carry on with the verbals, but on a further glance at Murphy actually stops and lets Murphy carry on his verbal attack on Nicola (this at around 08:12 of the above clip)
The BBC knows its’ jacket is on a shaky peg should the SNP push ahead for another broadcaster as part of a deal with Labour.Hence,they will utilise every device known to man to alter the public perception of Nicloa.It will get worse due to this self interest,and where they can they will try to set up these scenarios to discredit anything the SNP does.
It is now all out war,and we have to man the walls tto repel such attacks.
The reason the SNP don’t pull out of debates is becuase they are winning most of them!
@Johnny
“slither off” 🙂
Murphy will need a stepladder first… only Liberace could fake sincerity.
Talk about ‘boomerang politics’ it’s there for all to see.
This shite has been going on for years, it’s just today they let the mask slip.
Nothing more than a pack of feral dogs.
Well done First Minister. So very proud of you. Thank you.
Please please willie rennie knock on my door and we can talk macro economics. It would be a short conversation.
scottieDog says:
“Please please willie rennie knock on my door and we can talk macro economics. It would be a short conversation.”
Please Mr Murphy. Knock on my door anytime. Or, better still, meet me in any Sellick pub in the Swallygate and defend Labour’s record on Ireland. Oh, and bring your Union Jack sycophants with you.
Forgive me for not complaining to the EBC again. I can always predict the non answer. Please, as many as possible keep complaining to their big shredder. Let Nations speak unto nations, except Jockland.
My god! I could only stomach 2mins 17 sec of murphy bullying Nicola. Brewer was an absolute waste of space!
@Patrick Roden regarding ‘gish galloping’.
Thanks for that and Murphy’s style does indeed mirror this. I wonder if McTernan taught him to use this technique or if it just comes naturally. JoLa certainly used it in a debate with Nicola before the Referendum.
In Jim’s case it should be renamed ‘pish galloping’.
BBC Radio Scotland news at 5pm played a good clip of Nicola from the debate.Sound engineer did a great job of cutting out the interruptions too.
Nothing from the others probably because nothing coherent enough to broadcast.
If this was an interview for potential First Ministerial candidates,they all failed!
My hubby switched it off, he felt ashamed to be watching what amounted to bullying. He went off to meet Alex Salmond at his book signing in Inverness.
Membership of the snp going up & up as Pete Wishart tweets
Back in after more canvassing. People utterly appalled at the behaviour of Jim Murphy on that so called BBC ‘debate’. More votes for us…
Ref Jim Murphy’s haircut…..It’s been driving me crazy. He’s had that ‘coo’s lick’ since last week’s debates! Please, somebody tell him……erm on the other hand……..let him parade around like the first class prick he is!
muttley79 says:
12 April, 2015 at 5:19 pm
The reason the SNP don’t pull out of debates is because they are winning most of them!
I remember a debate on Scottish independence way back in the early 1990s, with an excitable Donald Dewar and Jim Wallace eagerly tripping over themselves (and each other) to press Alex Salmond when they thought they had him cornered. He brushed them aside with ease.
The BBC at their worst encouraging a shouting match and it’s probably a sign of what’s to come in the 7 way leaders debate on the Beeb this week. Especially with Dimbleby in the chair in smug anti nat mode ensuring Nicola, Leanne and Natalie get talked over and shouted down, it’ll be equally grim viewing.
Stay strong folks and vote the smug gits out on the 7th May
I was trying to watch and listen to this in the living room whilst my son was watching the Manchester derby.
After hearing a few minutes of the video on my iPad, said son pipes up in all seriousness ” What are you watching, the Jeremy Kyle Show?”.
Says it all really.
As I have posted before, The reasons the press in general think Murphy is ahead in these debates, is because they think like Murphy, act like Murphy, in print, forcing thier opinion on a public who have no right of reply in print.
So it is little wonder that these press chaps are confounded by the opinion polls, which shows the S.N.P.pulling further ahead, ’cause no one like a empty barrel bellowing, and not allowing others to put thier point of view, even disregarding the “chair” person, but in this case, long may it continue, every time Murphy uses that tactic, more join the S.N.P.!.
The Unionists are treating this like Indy Ref 2, whats the next Project Fear story, pensions, BBC, Nazi rule?
Luigi, you are right. Alex could run rings around Wallace and Dewar, but they were towering intellects compared to the current crop.
LABOUR POLICY ANNOUNCEMENT.
JIM MURPHY – Talk over Nicola every chance I get to disguise the fact I have no policies to talk about myself.
From Mancunian Matters. “More than half of Manchester believed it was fair that the SNP may hold the keys of 10 Downing Street. And for some, at least, that stemmed from dissatisfaction with the state of the Labour Party – a damning indictment of them in one of their areas of staunchest support. Simon Allen, a 29-year-old builder from Denton, was particularly dismissive of Labour’s hapless leader. He said: “The reason it’s such an issue is because the SNP are thrashing Labour in Scotland and that’s because Ed Miliband is rubbish.” We think Smugmurphy is rubbish too but we’ll let Simon off 🙂
Paul says:
12 April, 2015 at 4:23 pm
Any Wingers like to sign this wee petition that’s almost reached 100k already? I suspect, if you’ve watched this and STILL pay this tax that you might not want to any more 😉
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
Signed. Any party promising to end the TV licence fee would surely hoover up the votes (hint).
The BBC and their unionist pals would be hoping to get Nicola to make a mistake …..giving them something to attack in this weeks press….. It wasn’t aired as an entertainment for the viewers.
I’ve been toying with joining the SNP for a while, though I have in the interim been helping out the local branch as far as possible as a nonmember. However, that debacle today was the final straw. So I have just submitted my membership form to join.
Anybody know how long applications are taking to be processed at the moment?
Contrary to some who think the SNP and Nicola in particular should refuse to appear on these BBC set-ups I think she should do even more (if her nerves can stand it) as they have exactly the opposite effect than the BBC and it’s string pullers desire.
Well done Gordon Brewer, pinned tour flag to the other side’s mast.
Deid in the water, from now in.
So what are we to do?
It’s probably in moments like this; a few hours after the disgraceful shambles of what is meant to be one of the BBC’s flagship political programmes (in fact, possibly 2nd only to Question Time …which in itself, has been poorly orchestrated in these last few weeks) that we ask ourselves …what are we to do?
Simply put …the BBC are not going to change tactics here. They are going to stick with the format, and will do so deliberately, even though they know that what they are doing is neither democratic, nor impartial.
In my personal opinion, we are just going to have to bear with it. There is literally nothing we can do. We could take 10,000 people and protest outside the BBC offices at Pacific Quay, and the BBC still won’t bat an eyelid. They will simply shrug their shoulders and just continue as they will.
Whether the SNP now state their case to the BBC, that they won’t appear on any politics programme due to the ‘lack of discipline’ and an underlying tone of bullying, as well as the ineffectiveness of BBC presenters such as Neil, Brewer (and STV’s Ponsonby) in controlling their guests. Certainly from today’s programme, the SNP would have a case of what is clearly car-crash TV. The vast majority of the Scottish electorate will not have been impressed, and will wonder what the hell we are paying a licence for.
Personally, the SNP should stick to the main debate programmes in the evening. This is when most of the electorate will be watching. If today’s show had been on at say 8pm tonight, most of the electorate would have been phoning in and condemning the format. But for programmes like the Politics Show …just keep Nicola away from them; especially if it includes a guest list such as Murphy, Rennie and Davidson. 3 against 1 with a laid back presenter who smiles inwardly at Sturgeon’s pain is no debating platform. It’s a bear-pit to suit the hardcore Unionist supporters amongst the electorate.
Nicola Sturgeon deserves to be treated far better due to her position as First Minister of our country. But, it appears the BBC, along with her political opponents hold that view in utter contempt …just as they once did for Alex Salmond.
Like most of you, I hope there is a day of reckoning with the BBC. I hope that somehow if the SNP do hold the balance of power, that the media outlets such as BBC Scotland can be devolved to Scotland. That might be the only way that we can finally deal with a corporation that treats the entire electorate with an air of aloofness, utter contempt, and the televising of information that is inaccurate and filled with deception …and all of this comes from a broadcaster that is perceived to be the voice of authority in such matters.
It beats me why Shouty Jim thinks that talking over everyone is a vote winner?
Surely some viewers actually want to hear answers?
Whoever is speaking.
Am I alone in thinking this is closer to the truth than anything broadcast by that spoof organisation t BBC Scotland?
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
The BBC are happy to aid,abet counsel and procure this bullying stramash.
They wish to undermine Scotland but they aint getting a penny from me to help them do it.
Just watch Brewer’s superior little smirk as he signed off .
@ Scotspine,
pretty near the top at about !5 something;
Gordon Brewer – Carrying out his brief for a Unionist
Alliance (setting up Nicola Sturgeon
No answer necessary.
Stooge.
The subject of BBC bias arose during Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland today, and what might be in prospect for the institution when it becomes possible to have some democratic oversight of the way it conducts itself. (In which Gordon Brewer made an appearance, in his pj’s or something.) I almost got the impression that Ishbel and Bill were saying, “Eh? Wot me, guv?” Well I hope they were watching this zoo.
Gordon Brewer should be on his final warning for that utter shambles. He was chairing that “debate”. He had to show some authority and tell JM to shut up.
OT
Marr going off reservation this morning. Enjoy at your leisure.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
The Earthshaker says:
12 April, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Stay strong folks and vote the smug gits out on the 7th May
Aye, indeed. Let them have their little laugh. Let them enjoy a few days basking in the sunshine of self-delusion. There’s a mother of all reality storms heading their way.
OT
Has anyone else noticed that articles discussing trident often have headlines with £100m or £100 million in them but the article then goes ahead and uses the £100 billion figure?
I have seen this several times in the last week – is the lower headline figure part of a concerted effort to make the less curious think trident doesn’t actually cost that much?
I have never liked Murphy since he was Secretary of State Against Scotland and the only thing he did during his time in that role was to greatly increase the running costs of the Scottish Office – paid for by the way from Holyrood’s Block Grant! His disgraceful and ignorant behaviour on the BBC’s so-called “debate” only served to reaffirm my low opinion of him.
The other two BritNat Unionists were almost as obnoxious, Davidson chortling and wittering like the 6th form prefect she is, Rennie being the perfect nonentity he is, yet both joining in enthusiastically in shouting down and talking over the First Minister.
Final point, I used to think the SNP participants on TV political programmes where they are outnumbered usually on a 3-1 basis and with a biased anti-SNP presenter, should express their disapproval by walking out. But I now think this would be counter-productive. It would allow the Unionists to claim the SNP representative had no answer to their ludicrous and unchallenged claims and false figures.
Thank goodness for RevStu and his Wings site, which blows the Unionist propaganda and lies out of the water, and regularly draws attention to the bias of the BBC and MSM. usually backed up by references to where confirmation can be accessed to back up his factual reporting.
itsme
lets see what prof allyson pollock has to say on the founding and funding of the nhs.
link to youtube.com in 1948 after ww2, in a smashed, flat broke economy.
The unionists go on about the £7.6 b deficit ,the SNP should point out that ,that deficit is not extra but a replacement to the deficit Scotland has in the UK on which we are paying our share of interest to service .
Scotland can cover the £7.6 B deficit in the same way as any other nation ,borrowing .
£7.6 B is a lesser figure than the deficit we have in the UK
I think it was a mistake to put Nicola up for all 3 of these debates in Scotland. One would have been enough and the others could have been easily handled by Stuart Hosie.
Given that she did agree to appear I agree 100% with Robert Peffers that the First Minister should instantly clam up at the first interruption and allow the rudeness to run its course and then resume her point.
After a few times their tactic would work against them – she is the one who is in a position of power and by allowing multiple deflections can be made to look evasive.
Ms Sturgeon has been badly advised by her media handlers.
Shambles, nae manners. I suggest each participant be in a soundproof booth and the “chair” has a switch for each Mike!
Jim M says SNP promised no referendum in “a lifetime” -there’s inflation, then has the barefaced cheek to say “no Nicola, this is about facts”. Un f’ing believable!
Regardless of what is said in such debates by Unionist politicians I always find myself asking a whole host of questions that ought to be considered when discussing the Scottish economy. ‘What if Civil Servants dealing with Scottish matters live and pay taxes in Scotland?’ ‘What if the Scottish Government could control migration/immigration and boost productivity?’
‘What if land was taxed and made more productive?’ ‘What if there was more investment in wave/wind/hydro electric power?’ ‘What if the defence budget was appropriate to Scotland’s needs and not some dreams of Empire and a puppet to the United States?’
‘What if Scotland was an independent country and the Scottish Government determined economic development instead of a Westminster Govt in thrall to economic services in London?’
There are lots of what ifs, all of which would lead to changes and improvements in Scotland’s balance sheet. Given that Scotland lacks a tier of medium sized businesses these need to be encouraged but cannot do so under present economic circumstances.
It therefore seems to me, given the future potential, that any deficit (even if true, rather than blustering fearmongering) could be wiped out within a few years.
It’s true, there are risks in becoming an Independent country, but just look back over the past few decades. Have things been any less risky (and likely to be any less riskier) in this Better Together UK where Scots only seem to be accepted if one never rocks the boat?
The future for younger generations will be determined by their ability to have faith in themselves. If left to Westminster politicians the future is an inability to have a roof over their heads, massive educational debts, no ability to save for a pension, poverty wage employment if not unemployment for many, a NHS and Welfare services that will not be free at the point of need.
A choice has to be made and this should be made on the basis of common sense and a belief in oneself and ones fellow citizens and not simply on the basis of one set of (quite likely biased and incomplete) economic data.
Does anyone have any opinions from Labour or Tory voters on how they think the”debate” went?
Is Jim Murphy actually on medication? If not he should seek some forwith.
Bear in mind that primarily Murphy, Davidson and Rennie wish to be First Minister of Scotland. That would be the person who best represents the needs aspirations and will of the Scottish electorate.
Scary thought, isn’t it?
They seemed to be all the right words…
But not necessarily in the right order.
The presenter should be sacked as no control over murphy the muppet couldn’t here what Nichola had to say for the muppet talking over everyone,more control needed for future debates.
I’m afraid that this stuff might work for the unionists. I hope I’m wrong. Only the polls will tell.
But I’m inclined to suggest Nicola should be raking a leaf out if Cameron’s book and refuse to be an ‘aunt Sally ‘.
Why are you all complaining? All I’m seeing is an overbearing loudmouth, a sniggering wee nobody who’s over-excited because he’s on the bully boy’s team for a change and a cackling, bitchy captain of the school hockey team who’s in her element ganging up four to one against the FM.
An amazing act of self harm by the BBC and unionist parties. I wouldn’t be surprised now if Nicola gets more votes than the rest of them put together.
Shocking display of bullying and lying by the unionist parties, supported by their pals in the bbc.
This will backfire on these parties and the bbc when Scots go the the polls and the post election aftermath.
Many women will have been stunned today at murphy”s aggressive and boorish behaviour.
Wow,
If thast’s an edited 9 minutes…what a ruudy shambles.
Jim Muprphy’s startegy is simply to talk over and talk down anyone. A vociferous thug who as far as I’m concerned is not fit to have any say in the running of any of our public services.
Where was the intelligent discourse? What about moderation during the programme? Looked like a gang up on the First Minister stunt. Very dissapointing.
Singned the 38 Degrees petition to end the BBC license fee.
Please do the same;
link to you.38degrees.org.uk
Many thanks,
John
As others above have pointed out, the retribution for all of this is via the ballot box, os get out there and spread the word in whatever way you can – or even better join the SNP (although you can help out without joining).
They say revenge is a dish best served cold, well Jim Murphy needs to know, it’s going to be a very, very cold dark night at the count in East renfrewshire on 7th May. It cannot come too soon.
There was clearly an agenda to try and throw this debate into utter chaos by the failing unionist parties and they succeeded, they did not however manage to discredit Nicola Sturgeon with the constant questions about another referendum which they see as their penalty kick. Nicola again pointed out it is the will of the electorate in Scotland that will decide on whether there is another referendum or a game changer like the in/out european referendum. We have seen all this scaremongering before, so to all who support justice lets stick to our honest policies, lets continue to be transparent and most of all lets keep spreading the positive voice and reasoning that we all hope one day will give us total freedom from these tired unionist shackles.
The antics of the Unionist parties; Red Tory, Blue Tory, Yellow Tory and BBCTory are counter productive.
Viewers will see a woman being hounded by 4 Tories.
So although painful viewing for those of a pro Scottish persuasion, ultimately it will benefit The SNP.
I’m sure the various Tory Parties will read some of the comment on Wings and if you are, keep going along this track, it will prove to be your undoing.
You are showing yourselves up for the vacuous thinkers that you are.
Equally, if you do digest the feedback and change your style and cut Nicola some slack for her to put over her point, then you will be defeated.
It is a win/win situation for the SNP either way.
You cannot win.
It’s big ideas, with proven substance that will win in Scotland and as long as you Tories of the various colours continue to be bottle fed from London you are doomed.
The genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back in.
Who said James F Murphy BA Politics(failed) couldn’t get a certificate after 9 years? He only got one chance to see how the products of the Sarwar School of TV Debating (Hereditary Prop. Anas Sarwar exMP) got their opponents telt and he graduated magnum cum loud(e) after today’s showing. Have a An Arse certificate Jim to put before your BA(failed) so you can get your full title on one line as
James Francis Murphy AA(SSTD) BA Politics(failed) human(failed) ex-MP
@Grouse Beater says: 12 April, 2015 at 4:01 pm:
“Didn’t realise Wings is into sado-masochism.
Saw it on the box. Unwatchable then, unwatchable now”
Well, Grousebeater, I would never claim to know how the Rev Stu’s brain works but his post, in my own mind, struck a cord.
It was this, If any of the Unionist members on that panel had been ganged up on, as Nicola was, would Brewer, or the BBC, have sat there dumb with the sarcastic grin of victory on their/his face?
I say, “or the BBC”, for in truth Brewer is a but a tiny wee insignificant tool of the production team sitting behind the glass window of the control room. The Brewers of this World are disposable tools.
Not only that but the production team at BBC Scotland’s studios are also disposable tools and will indeed be disposed of when their use is over. Believe me the producers did what the BBC hierarchy told them to do and they in turn told Brewer. Now consider who instructed the BBC hierarchy?
What you witnessed today was what the Establishment masters instructed them to do. What you saw was what they wanted seen.
No one on that panel matters a damn to the Establishment for in their mind the Establishment has always been and always will be.
So when they made their claim that a wee Scottish Lassie is the most dangerous woman in Britain they really meant it. She is no danger to anyone else though. She is no threat to anyone except the Establishment.
I passed the retail outlet, “NEXT”. yesterday and in their window were several grey coloured mannequins with absolutely no facial features. Those grey faceless, anonymous, figures seemed to me as somewhat disturbing and vaguely threatening.
As do those faceless members of the Establishment who pull the strings of the marionettes we see in Westminster, for they too are disposable tools of the Establishment. An Establishment who wield such faceless powers over ordinary people’s lives and sometimes over our deaths.
@Fred Blogger
Thanks for that link.
I wasn’t saying anything on the NHS just posting a link for info…
I have no idea why some people want the SNP to boycott debates. The only way to expose unionist polticians for what they mostly are is to take them on in televised debates. Murphy is showing himself up for the thug he is. We should be encouraging him.
I even used the live preview box
OK two lines
Oh sod it, I’ll go out and come in again!
Murphy clearly has anger management issues and issues with women. Given that this is his normal style, honed and developed since his nine wilderness years at Strathclyde, he obviously thinks it is highly effective. He has no idea how much these bully boy tactics turn people off. So keep it up, Jim. The more of this, the more SNP votes on May 7th.
Willie Rennie was trying very hard to ape Jim, like the dweeby kid in the school playground wanting everyone to think he’s a hard man.
Davidson was just a sniggering idiot, and Brewer beyond words.
tick tock
To the Undecideds: Having witnessed this clip,for the Holyrood elections which one of the three Unionist branch leaders would receive your vote? Murphy? Davidson? Rennie?
If it helps you decide, I chanced upon a Murphy Irn Bru session in the election campaign. What you saw today on TV is what I saw and heard at his Irn Bru gig. He ain’t a nice guy.
I attended a Ruthy referendum campaign meeting – suitably dressed. “A stranger to the truth” is my experience of her responses to awkward questions, – evasions and mistruths.
Rennie? No firsthand experience.
Re the obsession with deficits…
Steve Keen Explains Why Austerity Is Pseudo-Economics: link to youtu.be
John Moss wrote:
“Singned the 38 Degrees petition to end the BBC license fee.
Please do the same;”
Not a chance, i don’t help companies who deceive us.
And the BBC licence fee is already going to be replaced or scrapped without 38Degrees.
If all the submissions to the Smith Commission were ineffective in getting media powers devolved to Holyrood what makes you think 38Degrees will make a difference.
btw, That question is rhetorical.
Sleepy heid – Irn Bru session in the REFERENDUM campaign!
itsme
yeah i know, it was on gidion’s whey.
🙂
Patrick Roden.
Very interesting Patrick,I overheard two men on the street,say of Jim Murphy, that he was talking a load of Lillian Gish,last night.
What an utter disgrace.
Politics of shouting.
Showed my wife
Her comment ‘ has nobody told him (Murphy) that it is rude to talk over people?’
Quite worried how much Ruth D was laughing. What does she know that we do not.
Just awful. BBC should be ashamed of this debacle
to paul D
Not long. I posted my application form on 4th April and got my membership card in the post on Friday, the 10th.
Watched it again,….it is fantastic,sheer desperation from
from “honest jim”,ruthie,rennie and even the bbc guy.
I would advise all to come back and watch it after the vote,
they are in blind panic here.
Nicola did get her points made,fine work by her again.
Smurphy and Ruthie aren’t much better but how Wullie Rennie can even sit on the same couch as the class that is Nicola Sturgeon is beyond me.
What an insignificance. He must even wonder himself how he’s blagged it this far.
Roll on Independance.. get us out of this ridiculous carry on!
Thanks for that Maureen. Hopefully it won’t get lost amongst the “recycling” being sent by the unionists.
Btw.. if the Tories and Liebor do go into coalition to keep the SNP out then I think Independance is a cast iron certainty.
.. although I would be shocked at the message a coalition would send to rUK that they were both scared of the SNP!
Surely not.
I want you to consider certain facts that the Unionist political folks always steer away from telling you real facts. In the last debate that included both the Greens and UKIP.
However, let me start with Wee Willie’s verbal prestidigitation. His claim that Scotland would have faced utter Earth shaking disaster if we had voted NO and then the oil price sank.
First of all Scotland’s government gets no revenue whatsoever from oil & gas. Matter of fact we get no revenue from anything else either. All taxes are gathered by Westminster. Even the profits earned by private concerns is taxed by Westminster and what Westminster allows them to keep belongs to the company and is not Scottish Government Revenue.
Everything from VAT to Income Tax via Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty, Betting Duty, Road Fuel Duty, Road Tax, Et Al is collected by Customs & Excise. Matter of fact it always has done for the Romans ran Roman Britain by operating a Customs & Excise system.
In fact the theory of Hadrian’s Wall being to keep out the North Britons is probably claptrap as the North Britons really had little need to invade South Britain. The certainly didn’t need the space and all their needs were met in North Britain. As the Romans operated customs & excise it was more than likely to prevent smuggling. Remember that the Romans dealt in slaves so would be quite pleased to have the chance to take North British prisoners.
The only Scots that get to collect tax and keep it are local councils who collect, among other things like parking charges, Business Rates and Council Tax. So it doesn’t bother the SG if oil & gas prices fluctuate for their total income is by the Block Grant and that is set by the calculations of the Barnett Formula that take the average UK wide per capita figure and then add to them the value of every devolved function that is provided to Englanders, then add a per capita share of that to the block grant. You wouldn’t expect them to devolve powers without also devolving the funds to run them.
As each of the devolved administrations has different levels of function and England has none it is correct that each country has a different level of per capita funding. But the point remains no matter what the oil price is the block grant is not dependant upon it. However, if we got Full Fiscal Autonomy we wouldn’t just get 8.4% of the oil revenues but 95% of them and that means this claim of a big black hole is in the UK income and certainly would make Scotland very rich indeed.
I thought SNP should pull out of these debates, as its clear the unionists are not prepared to debate and MSM Journalists are incapable of chairing a debate.
However I have changed my mind, the more the public see of these Tumshies the better .
I watched the whole thing this morning so I’m not going to torture myself by watching it again. However, we should give a vote of thanks to BBC Scotland and Gordon Brewer. If this doesn’t drive voters to the SNP then nothing will.
Jim murphy’s hiperactive behaviour in that debate was very similar to that of people high on drugs or glue.
Rab.c says:
12 April, 2015 at 7:18 pm
Jim murphy’s hiperactive behaviour in that debate was very similar to that of people high on drugs or glue.
S’funny, I had a friend, who knows thee things, is convinced he is on anti depressants, just after the last debate: staring into space then ranting.
They are not ganging up on Nicola Sturgeon,they are clinging
onto one another out of desperation,the captain has just
announced that all the engines have conked out,and there
are no parachutes.
Hoddles
As a mental health nurse hes defo on something, psych meds do strange things to people
I watched the whole debate and I liked it, and the reason why ? is because it showed the unionist leaders up for the negative, winny, thickheaded, waste of time bunch of chancers that they are.
Nicola was brillient, she showed the country what the difference is between a positive, strong, educated and knowledgeable politician and what awaits the country if they ever vote for the rest ie (NUMPTY’s)plus Willie Rennie.
Could the BBC have been fairer by bringing in the Greens & SSP of course they could, but it has shown the bbc and Gordon Brewer in their true colours to everyone in Scotland.
In that debate Willie Rennie was insignificant, Jim Murphy BA politics (failed) was shown to have a lack of both manners and knowledge of his parties policys, And Ruth Davidson actually showed her true blue tory policys towards those on welfare and at the bottom of our society. (her mask slipped today).
Nicola was Scotlands First Minster and showed it.
PS, and I am even more convinced after today that Jim Murphy BA-politics (failed) looks like a “bald velocirapter”, its the way that head bob’s about.
A “must read”
“we strive to offer an environment where everyone is treated with dignity and respect”
That, alert readers, is from the BBC anti-harassment policy:
link to downloads.bbc.co.uk
Gordon Brewer should be given his jotters. He made David Dimbleby look like a competent chairman, which is no mean feat. As for Murphy, he had the cheek to pull up Nicola Sturgeon for talking over him and then proceeded to talk over her whenever she tried to answer a question. There will be plenty more of this type of “debate” between now and May 7th. Rather than explain their own policies, the 3 Unionist parties will get to gang up on the SNP at every opportunity. I’ll take that as a compliment and it shows we must be doing something right.
Just pure disgraceful from Murphy, what a tosser
Aceldo Atthis,
“If it was up to me, a referendum would be on every SNP manifesto from here to eternity as a point of principle.”
Not to eternity, surely we will win the next one!
Hands up anyone who managed to watch the entire debacle!
Murphy didn’t just talk over Nicola Sturgeon, he shouted over everyone. They need to remove his batteries before allowing him anywhere near a microphone.
Disgraceful display from Murphy and especially trying to scare pensioners again. The BBC have nothing of which to be proud either.
Gave it 48 seconds and wanted to stick a poker in murphy’s ear. How can anyone think that behaviour is how to attract voters to your party.
Those three are obviously enjoying themselves – the fact that they are disgusting viewers and losing votes doesn’t seem to worry them at all.
Seems to be Indyref all over again, in the sense of Labour shoulder to shoulder with the Tories and LibDems. Not a vote winner I would have thought.
O/T Is Brewer really a shining light of the BBC?
Why don’t they just come clean and give up the pretence and finally admit that they are in fact the same party? A party whose only purpose is SNP opposition. It’s simply unfair that their party is allowed three representatives compared to the SNPs one.
That dear people was a premedicated and orchestrated attack on 1 person by 4. Its the lay of thier land, so thier rules apply. Shocking, yes. However turns out to be prob the most direct party political broadcast for SNP! Go figure eh. No need for a script just play this on a loop for next 20 odd days. Job done.
Mindboggling. Watching this is like watching some obscure ex Soviet Union country’s parliament when large men in ill-fitting suits start fighting each other in the chamber.
Our First Minister deserves credit for not walking out or assaulting any of her 4 assailants.
When Jim traipsed into her trap and suggested labour would grow the UK out of deficit ie exactly, almost to the word what he had attacked Nicola for before. Brilliant. Just brilliant.
Bet Nicola just want to say to jim “fuck off you fud” but controlled herself and worked on the principle of give him enough rope.
Has anyone considered a complaint to the Holyrood standards committee
link to scottish.parliament.uk
Hold on folks.
Look at that vid again & watch Nicola’s face.Some sneaky smiles are there for all to see. She is playing a game with them all. She knows her opponents styles & their weaknesses on their own teams’ policies inside out.
Of course she isn’t going to put Hosie there in her place. She is the leader so that’s where she should be. So far we’ve had both Cameron & Milliband trying to avoid debates. Nicola is not going to give any opponent, (including the BBC for that is exactly what they are)any ammunition to throw at her or the SNP by stepping aside. She is showing that the SNP don’t do spin, don’t resort to bully boy tactics, lying or obfuscation etc because they don’t have to.
What she is also demonstrating most admirably is that despite the constant haranging & interruptions she doesn’t miss a beat. She keeps going with her answer until it’s finished & the other parties attempt to drown her out isn’t working because she was asked a question & she is damn well going to answer it-come what may!
This is what is getting Murphy mad, he’s tried calm & creepy, patronising & arrogant & today, outright bullying but nothing stops Nicola from moving forward. She is not giving him an inch of ground or ammunition & he hates being put in that position.
Nicola knew how each pretendy leader would behave today & yes even Brewer too. She was prepared for it & I think she will be quite pleased with the outcome. More blatant evidence for the devolution of broadcasting argument. Those who didn’t watch the evening debates get another opportunity to see Better Together all together again so ‘nothing’s changed has it viewers’ so why would you want to vote for any of these parties.
Nicola doesn’t need to lower herself to calling these pretendy leaders liars, chancers, bullies or whatever. They’ve just done it all,for her-their behaviour speaks volumes.
Rennie-yes irrelevant & so far out of his depth that he’s drowning-he is just an embarrassment.
Davidson-can only laugh because she can’t concentrate but even if she could she has no answers or arguments of her own because her own leaders have just spent 5 years proving their own incompetence in government. She isn’t an able enough politician to be able to defend their track record & come out of that unscathed & she knows it.
Murphy-well he knows he’s blown it. He can’t keep calm when facing Nicola Sturgeon because he knows that of all the politicians in UK today, that she is the only one on top of her brief. She exudes unshakeable belief in the rightness of SNP’s policies for Scotland & she is very able in sharing that vision & persuading people to believe in her. She is no Maggie Thatcher-she is far better than MT.
She may not be comfortable with that apology for a debate today but I do think she will be more than satisfied with the outcome knowing that each time these debates happen more people join the party thus making the other 3 angrier than ever as they continue to haemorrage support.
What’s not to like 🙂
I’ve held off watching that until now… and thank god I did, it would have really, really spoilt my day.
What an absolutely fucking disgraceful shambles. I can only conclude that these debates have been set up by the union-supporting media as Go Get Nicola Sturgeon democratic farces.
There was no control of that ‘debate’ taken by Brewer – none whatsoever. Why? Outwith this ‘debate’ he is normally sharp on stopping any waffling or ‘overspeak’. Yet today…?
Was it to show that Scottish politics is really at this level is nothing but rudeness, shouting and irresponsible behaviour?
Why allow Jim Murphy to constantly – constantly – talk over Nicola Sturgeon without rebuke?
Why not allow Sturgeon to barely finish a sentence without interruption?
It appeared at more than one stage that Jim Murphy was the questionner, and with the smug collusion of Brewer who was, nominally, the questionner. Why was that incredible scenario allowed to happen?
Why did Brewer not intervene in preventing it becoming a 4 (which included himself) vs 1 shouting bully-fest?
Hi, BBC Scotland. You like to poke your nose in here often enough so how about you answer some of these questions above? Many people read this site and they all, surely, would like you to enlighten them. So, then, if you could….
You see, BBC, after that disgrace today masquerading as a debate, one would be under the assumption that you are pro-Labour, pro-union, anti-SNP, anti-Scottish independence, anti-Scottish democracy and, actually totally anti-democratic. If you disagree, then do hurry to let us know. We’ll be right here when you do.
Email to the Holyrood standards committee (not yet sent)
“I was appalled to see the disgraceful behavior of Ruth Davidson msp, William Rennie msp and James Murphy mp towards the office of the first minister on a BBC programme hosted by the equally disgraceful Gordon Brewer,
whom the standards committee I appreciate hold no remit over but it is worth pointing out that the office of first minister is being demeaned by the crass and bullying attitude of the people I mentioned above, I would hope it would be in the purview of the committee to hold the msp’s to account and report the mp to the authority in Westminster for disciplinary action which I would suggest is richly deserved and finally would request a full and frank discussion take place with the BBC at the highest level re the bias shown by a BBC employee
this debacle took place on the “Sunday Politics Scotland “programme hosted by Gordon Brewer,
If the committee have not already seen this disgraceful display of childish and bullying behaviour I strongly recommend you look at a recording of the programme to enlighten yourselves, after which I sincerely hope you will be able to take decisive action to prevent such an embarrassing display ever again by msp’s on the person of the first minister (whomever it may be)!”
Anyone see anything that I could/should change?
Couldn’t watch it all, how utterly disgraceful. It looks like the Scots are just not genetically programmed to make political decisions, well expect for one in attendance and it ain’t Smurphy, Willi, or the one who just finds everything so very funny, ha ha bloody ha.
Oh to have such a larf, when one is talking about making massive decisions about peoples lives and livelyhoods, tally ho wot!
On Ms Davidson’s attempt to catch the First Minister out during today’s BBC Scotland ‘debate’ on the subject of child poverty, here’s some independent information which confirms the FM’s response.
“More than one in five (220,000) of Scotland’s children are officially recognised as living in poverty[i], a level significantly higher than in many other European countries.[ii] In 2012/13 the proportion of children in Scotland experiencing poverty increased from 19% to 22%[iii]. This increase is in-keeping with independent modelling by the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) which forecasts a massive increase in child poverty with up to 100,000 more children living in poverty in Scotland by 2020[iv].”
Source: Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland (link to cpag.org.uk )
So yet another (probably the most) pressing reason for change to economic policy and to what Westminster government prioritises! Vote SNP – more seats for more powers to do so much better.
I made it to 5:59m, anyone able to beat that?
This is completely astonishing. With SNP nearing 50% in the polls, with Labour in freefall, with Willie Rennie getting 1% of the vote as winner of the debates the other night, WHY on earth do the unionist parties think that this sort of behaviour/performance is in any way at all a good thing. They think this will win them votes? Really? How?
Why continue with such utterly redundant tactics?
From this clip (I’ve not seen the full prog), Ruth Davidson comes across quite well by basically hanging her head and staying schtum. At least she can see the car crash unfolding.
Who could have thought Labour could plummet below the tories in Scotland? Davidson beating James Francis in the debates. Cameron being more popular than Miliband in Scotland.
Rennie’s only contribution seems to be to lie about the ‘once in a generation’ quote (Salmond’s personal opinion, not SNP policy).
Brewer comes across as incompetent. But with such a runaway eejit shouting over everything, Idi Amin would have struggled to subdue James Francis.
From now on Nicola should employ Nursery tactics. Take a wooden spoon, whoever holds the spoon speaks, then passes it on.
And the solution for the red, yellow & blue tories is so seeringly painfully obvious. Just listen to the voters and give them as much as you can of what they want.
@ Frazerio
‘Ruth Davidson comes across quite well by basically hanging her head and staying schtum.’
I don’t agree, all that maniacal laughter will lose rather than win votes.
#2 trying again.
Couldn’t watch it all, how utterly disgraceful. It looks like the Scots are just not genetically programmed to make political decisions, well expect for one in attendance and it ain’t Smurphy, Willi, or the one who just finds everything so very funny, ha ha bloody ha.
Oh to have such a larf, when one is talking about making massive decisions about peoples lives and livelyhoods, tally ho wot!
John King your letter looks good.
I hope that the BBC and the powers that be take notice of the many complaints sent, but, well you know………….
Lollysmum @ 8.58 excellent comment on “debate”. I take a different position which is what we witnessed today was the performance of “Westminster in Scotland”. At the point where Nicola was, fair enough, challenged on 7 billion “black hole” she attempted to respond with a challenge on the 100+ bn black hole and 1.5 trillion debt of Westminster and at that point they all went hell for leather to block her out! IMO they have already given up on securing the confidence of Scotland, but they are all fighting hard to ensure that the political energy unleashed here does not contaminate rUK. This was an exercise in damage limitation from them all.
The best performance of the day belonged to Natalie Wood, Green Party Leader on Andrew Marr. She had a fantastic presentation. She explicitly laid out that the deficit arose from the UK Govmt bailing out the bankers, spelt out how they can contribute towards repaying this “loan” by UK Gov setting out taxes on city deals and then argued the case for better protection for wildlife and animals. English cousins please listen to her??
Sic a shower o’ cnuts.
EBC…you’re finished!
Unionists…..you’re finished!
Your Empire….it’s finished!
Get over it, FFS!
Have never joined any political party in my life, but Nicola, I’m joining yours!
A training programme for BBC (and other broadcasters) in how to chair/lead a discussion programme – otherwise known in Scotland at present as a ‘rammy’ – is urgently required!
X
With unbalanced television shows like this one above, it’s no wonder people are turning off their tv’s, turning on and tuning into on-line articles/discussion for their news and reviews instead.
The conduct of the labour, lib-dem and tory candidates here was absurd, political white noise! (Award: F minus) and maybe that’s the reason I’m seeing some more SNP window posters getting fired-up around the neighbourhood today.
Thing is, I’ve yet to see ANY window posters in support of ANY of the unionist parties (the remaining traditional unionist voters too embarrassed maybe baby?)
It’s pro-Scottish posters all the way hey!
If you’ve got some paper in your printer, you could always print off your own A4 poster(s) and rattle it/them up onto your window(s) in support of your Scotland.
Be creative 😉
Every govt. in the world runs a deficit…. I would hazard a guess that the majority of business’s in the world run a deficit!
What is so wrong with us running one?
Nobody appears to be addressing this simple question?
Just in, watched it, lost for words………………………
Re- Patrick Roden @ 4.12 on ‘Gish Galloping’
Many thanks for the information on this debating technique – fascinating, had never heard of it. After searching for a few minutes online and finding multiple references to its use in US and Australian politics (notably used by Mitt Romney in debates with Obama), all becomes clear – Mr Murphy is clearly a expert practitioner. Fascinating to read online how opponents in debates and chairs of debates can counter/manage this ploy.
And Labour’s campaign advisor from the USA David Axelrod who advised the Obama campaign seems to know all about gish galloping. According to a US web site in 2012 (Source: link to eclectablog.com ): “.. on a conference call with media today, David Axelrod was asked why President Obama didn’t push back against Mitt Romney’s copious lies. His answer was basically that President Obama was there to talk to the American people and, had he spent his entire time refuting and debunking Romney’s lies, misstatements and newfound positions on a number of issues, he never would have had the chance to talk about his own positions.”
Gish Murphy exposed!
#bullyforbritain
Believe it or not, BBC Scotland used the clip of Wee Ruthie’s “You shouldn’t earn more in work than you earn on benefits” in the 22.20 edition of Reporting Scotland!
Some poor editor will have his a®$€ hauled over the coals for that letting down of the side…
BTW: that statement is at around 37mins 12secs in the iPlayer download.
Remember there is not long to go to voting day. Just keep the information flowing to everyone you can as there are still a lot of serial unionists out in the community(they know not what they do).I think that most of them don’t have the ability to see the big picture, and this ignorant show from their representatives will go over most of their numpty heads.
Nicola should have just walked away, anyone watching would have thought her justified if she had.
Don’t we have anti bullting laws in Scotland?
JK @ 9.13
How did you manage to get your point across without Expletives .
Good work . Well done .
Here’s the link to Wee Ruthie’s Gaffe:-
link to youtube.com
This is the kind of thing that makes me glad I stopped paying my TV Licence in September 2014. None of my money is going to the BBC anymore. That was a disgraceful display. Jim Murphy seems to be regressing back to his bellowing at women from soapbox days. The presenter didn’t appear to be doing anything at all to control the “debate”. Do any of these people really think they’ll sway voters acting like that? Do they honestly think anyone at all will be impressed by that kind of behaviour?
Tune in and turn people off,well done Bbc Im well justifyed in cancelling my Licence Fee, TEAR UP YOUR BLOODY CHARTER IT NO WORTH THE PAPER ITS PRINTED ON, & WHERE,S MY SUMMONS FOR COURT, FOR NON PAYMENT.
Why are the clouds behind them all moving towards Jim Murphy?
Well how embarrassing. As an ex patriot Scot I cringe listening to people with the same accent as my own being demeaning and disrespectful to the impression other people have for the Scot’s. Nicola was the only one there with any adult decorum, and a class above the other offerings including the host.
In my opinion, without malice, that Jim Murphy is a deranged devious sociopath. The only thing I might find interesting about him would be laying eyes apron whoever or whatever shared his bed, presuming of course there is such an unfortunate human specimen.
That ‘debate’ made PMQs at Westminster seem cvilised. Utter disgraceful for the BBC to allow this to happen. Once again Motor-Mouth Murphy behaving like the school bully he is. Asks Nikki a question, talks over her answer and then complains that she isn’t answering. Complete utter fud!! But he can regurgitate all the scary-wary stories he likes from Project Fear–they won’t budge the 45% (and counting). The 45% weren’t scared last time and they most certainly aren’t scared now by this crap.
Got anything else to throw at us, Motor-Mouth?
Tick, tock…
Hi All
we are livestreaming tomorrow from the blockade at Faslane. We should be live around 7am…
Please share and tweet: link to livestream.com
“His answer was basically that President Obama was there to talk to the American people and, had he spent his entire time refuting and debunking Romney’s lies, misstatements and newfound positions on a number of issues, he never would have had the chance to talk about his own positions.”
Wise words. Something I think we should bear in mind when handling TLPAFTG. Everyone knows it’s crap. The purpose of it is to divert attention away from the real arguments. Let Murphy make himself look a fool-not to mention giving away a serious hostage to fortune to the Tories-and let us concentrate on talking about the real issues.
Hi, Barbera McKenzie (@9.37)
As I said I didn’t watch the whole thing, in fact didnt even make it to 6 minutes in the edited version. Reading others comments its clear I’m in the minority by giving anything approaching praise to Ms Davidson.
I’m judging her compared to Murphy & Rennie in this context alone. I thought she did at times look a bit embarassed. But she didn’t have the wherewithal, guts or moral fortitude to say something like ‘aw gonny just shut it for a second Jim’.
Murphy & Rennie were completely, totally and utterly abysmal. Davidson was just completely and totally abysmal. Doesnt really count as ‘praise’.
And yes I feel helluva dirty for somehow giving a (blue) tory any credit whatsoever.
I agree it must have been a vote losing performance, not just for Davidson, but the other 2 ‘gentlemen’ (lol) as well. Yet another boost to SNP membership surely. When will the penny drop for these dumb unionists?
Lollysmum @ 8.58
I agree, agree and agree again.
The SNP would win these ‘debates’ using an empty chair. With Sturgeon present she shows the old politics up for what they are, past their sell by date and no longer fit for purpose. How she sat through that without resorting to swearing or violence beats me.
When Sturgeon became leader I was still to be convinced. In the last couple of weeks she’s impressed above and beyond. Not just me but many in the wider UK. Get her in the open as much as possible.
That prison guard from Shawshank might be an idea to replace Brewer???
@Frazerio
Can hardly blame you for not watching the whole thing …
Cheers!
Oh Boy. Some people on here – and in the context of the lies and disgrace of the referendum campaign – still maintaining that the BBC inadvertently lost control of the debate today to the accidental misfortune of the SNP.
Can I sell you some fresh air in a can?
Next you’ll be telling us the postal vote is bona fide.
For goodness sake, Murphy has some nerve spending the entire time talking over everyone, complaining that Nicola won’t answer (maybe if you shut your gob for a second Jim!) and THEN complaining that SHE is the one talking over everyone else!!!
A complete lack of moderation by Brewer. The scottish election debates were exactly the same, everyone trying to talk over each other constantly (Patrick Harvie excepted)
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a debate turn into as bad a shambles as they have in recent weeks. Starting to feel like it’s a deliberate strategy as the leaders debate showed that when given the chance to actually talk people up and down the UK seem to agree with Sturgeon and the SNP. So just talk over her and make sure she isn’t heard!
Sorry, I just can’t….
Can’t wait to see what happens when Murphy talks like that to Mhairi Black.
(wee smiley face thing)
Some folks are thinking they’re becoming deparate;
link to archive.today
Say no more…
link to flickr.com
These debates confuse me. Why is Sturgeon debating with Murphy et al.? Scottish Labour is a separate party, right? If so, Murphy’s promises mean nothing at this General Election. Unless he’s speaking as the branch office manager…but they claim Scottish Labour isn’t just a branch office!
I couldn’t watch it all either. Murphy is a bully and Scots don’t like bullies. If he gets back in I will have serious misgivings about the people who vote for him. Something wrong with people who’d give this shit a job – any job.
I think Jim Murphy is coming un-glued.
This was really appaling, small wonder people are turned off by politicians. I’ve probably heard more sensible debates from 5 year olds. By about half way through I would happily have had the whole lot of them put up against the proverbial wall and shot! I thought grown up (e.g. anyone over 5 years old) understood about taking turns. The presenter too, he was beyond pathetic. What a total waste of broadcast time. If Labour (who were worst and probably set the tone) can’t allow a fair debate, can we expect them to allow a fair vote?
Unbelievable. If Murphy thinks this will win him votes he’s a complete idiot.
Gordon Brewer should have done something to make this ‘debate’ worth while.
I think these are the only two comments worth making.
How thick are Unionist politicians? The State of the UK economy
It is easy to see why Jim Murphy spent years at University and left without any qualification , he must have spent his time shouting at his lecture’s.
What a bloody shambles.
Wasn’t that just brilliant! Shown them ALL up for what they truly are. BBC biased and seeking to discredit the Scots in general and Nicola Sturgeon in particular. Jim Murphy once a bully boy (check out his University / Westminster record) always a bully boy. Ruth Davidson full of envious, spiteful glee encouraging Sid Vicious and Wally Runnie to put the boot in. What a rat pack. The Union all working in unison once again. Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie and the Labour controlled EBCs stooge Brewster all Jim Murphys wee helpers ????
Has no one told Murphy the Manipulator that this was the main reason for them losing support in Scotland? Does he still not get it ???? Oh I forgot 9 years at Uni and learned nought: left without as much as a certificate. Maybe accounts for the glaikit gaze between venomous, manic outbursts?
Jim Murphy was no doubt trying to ‘impress’ everyone with his ‘hear me, hear me’ knowledge. All he managed to do was alienate even more Labour voters. Jim the right wing Tory narcissist who supported the Iraq War, supports austerity measures, is happy to have Trident based in Scotlandshire and screw as much as he can out of the tax-payers ……. £194,000 last year alone in expense claims ……… £4000 for food (no expense claim necessary). One of the many Labour Party MPs now right at the top of the expense claims list …… greedier than the Tories ???? This is the man who is now complaining about foodbanks and the fact that a woman he spoke to couldn’t afford to buy her daughter shoes. If people like him stopped lining their own pockets there would be more money to go round. He’s also the guy that had the brass neck to bellow at the UKip MP about picking on immigrants …… Jim Murphy Vice President of the Henry Jackson Society. You couldn’t make it up. But he can and does.
All I can say is keep it up. The only two Tory voters that I know of are not going to vote at all now (trying to get them to vote SNP ????) as they are totally disgusted with Ruth Davidson. And everyone I know of is sick and tired of hearing about Scotlands 7.5 billion black hole ???? from Murphy, Davidson and Rennie (whose party still owes Police Scotland £800,000). Time they started telling the truth and talking about Westminsters bottomless dark canyon with its 76 billion deficit and a 1.5 trillion debt created by the Tories, Labour and Libdems whilst being propped up with Scotlands oil revenue.
You didn’t have to hear what was being said during that debate. You didn’t have to know one whit about politics or policies. What was clear was that Nicola Surgeon was the only decent, mature, intelligent human being in that group. The only true professional. The others were nothing short of a disgrace and it’s all on record now for everyone in World to see ????
Wasn’t that just brilliant! Shown them ALL up for what they truly are. BBC biased and seeking to discredit the Scots in general and Nicola Sturgeon in particular. Jim Murphy once a bully boy (check out his University / Westminster record) always a bully boy. Ruth Davidson full of envious, spiteful glee encouraging Sid Vicious and Wally Runnie to put the boot in. What a rat pack. The Union all working in unison once again. Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie and the Labour controlled EBCs stooge Brewster all Jim Murphys wee helpers ????
Has no one told Murphy the Manipulator that this was the main reason for them losing support in Scotland? Does he still not get it ???? Oh I forgot 9 years at Uni and learned nought: left without as much as a certificate. Maybe accounts for the glaikit gaze between venomous, manic outbursts?
Jim Murphy was no doubt trying to ‘impress’ everyone with his ‘hear me, hear me’ knowledge. All he managed to do was alienate even more Labour voters. Jim the right wing Tory narcissist who supported the Iraq War, supports austerity measures, is happy to have Trident based in Scotlandshire and screw as much as he can out of the tax-payers ……. £194,000 last year alone in expense claims ……… £4000 for food (no expense claim necessary). One of the many Labour Party MPs now right at the top of the expense claims list …… greedier than the Tories ???? This is the man who is now complaining about foodbanks and the fact that a woman he spoke to couldn’t afford to buy her daughter shoes. If people like him stopped lining their own pockets there would be more money to go round. He’s also the guy that had the brass neck to bellow at the UKip MP about picking on immigrants …… Jim Murphy Vice President of the Henry Jackson Society. You couldn’t make it up. But he can and does.
All I can say is keep it up. The only two Tory voters that I know of are not going to vote at all now (trying to get them to vote SNP ????) as they are totally disgusted with Ruth Davidson. And everyone I know of is sick and tired of hearing about Scotlands 7.5 billion black hole ???? from Murphy, Davidson and Rennie (whose party still owes Police Scotland £800,000). Time they started telling the truth and talking about Westminsters bottomless dark canyon with its 76 billion deficit and a 1.5 trillion debt created by the Tories, Labour and Libdems whilst being propped up with Scotlands oil revenue.
You didn’t have to hear what was being said during that debate. You didn’t have to know one whit about politics or policies. What was clear was that Nicola Surgeon was the only decent, mature, intelligent human being in that group. The only true professional. The others were nothing short of a disgrace and it’s all on record now for everyone in World to see ????