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Wings Over Scotland

The bidding war

Posted on November 27, 2019 by

Remember this, readers? What a long time ago it seems.

And we don’t just mean Ruth Davidson being in favour of staying in the EU.

Remember the days when politics was to be settled by democracy?

“You don’t get a referendum for free, you have to earn it. So if the Greens and the SNP – and the SSP or any of the other parties who’ve declared an interest in independence – get over the line and can make a coalition, make a majority, get the votes in the Parliament, then they’ll vote through a referendum, and that’s what democracy’s all about… it’s perfectly simple”

It’s all so different now. Nobody cares about boring old democracy any more, grandad.

Tomorrow: 2103. Because hey, why not?

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    330 to “The bidding war”

    1. Paul Miller says:

      I’d love to see how theyre going to hold the SNP to once in a generation. Where legally is that written, surely it would be a 5 minute job in a court.

    2. manandboy says:

      Tories are terrified.

    3. Breeks says:

      Dear Scotland,

      You had your democracy in 2014!

      You chose to be subservient, and we will never allow any of our Unionists to change their minds.

      Luv UK.

    4. Bob Mack says:

      No new indy vote till 2054 ? Once in a generation ?

      Are people real!y living for 140 years these days?

      The shorter version reads___ never again wil! you be allowed to votd for indy.

    5. galamcennalath says:

      I love the smell of BritNat fear in the morning. Gets the day off to a good start.

    6. Merkin Scot says:

      Ruth who?

    7. callmedave says:

      Aye right! The one trick pony parties in Scotland herding together to keep Scotland caged “like a lion” just like Boris says. 🙁

      Sturgeon warned about NHS sell off and it looks like Jeremy has found the dodgy dossier. An open goal for Labour but how will he use it.

      Not just the NHS drugs and costs but includes regulations on food and labelling and employment laws.

      FM begins her manifesto speech now.

      Boris lied again. 🙁 No surprise there then.

    8. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Self-determination in International Law:

      The principle of self-determination is prominently embodied in Article I of the Charter of the United Nations.

      But we are to believe that the BritNats WONT allow the Scottish People another Referendum on our Self Determination?

      Aye, right.

    9. Douglas Porter says:

      If you truly believe in Scotland, and that you believe in Scotland’s well-being and future, that you care for the NHS then, vote SNP on 12 December and Yes in 2020. Independence is normal, being governed by another country is not.

    10. Jules says:

      I wonder where these people think we’ll all go if there are continual democratic mandates for another referendum and it keeps being blocked..??

      I suspect the next place to go would be the courts, but after that, it would surely be peaceful protest, which would continue and ratchet up until the referendum is agreed. Suppressing democracy is just not a healthy or good or sustainable thing to do…

    11. Mist001 says:

      If as seems likely just now, the SNP win yet another mandate to request a second article 50 (yes, I know how ridiculous that looks, but that’s how it is), hold a second referendum and if they lose that, then yes, no more referendums for the long term future.

      I’m a fervent independence supporter and I believe that if people are pressing for a second Brexit referendum, then that should be applied equally across the board and so Scotland should have a second independence referendum too since everything has changed since the last one.

      I know the argument that people have the right to change their mind in a democracy BUT…… can’t go on holding referendums every couple of years. That may be democratic but it’ll cause society to stagnate.

      Eventually, someone will have to say ‘Right. we’ve had enough referendums and win or lose, this is the position we find ourselves in, so let’s get on and deal with it as it is.’

      It’s simply not possible to have endless referendums in a democracy so if we Scots lose the next independence referendum, then we really should just bite the bullet and get on with things.

    12. gullaneno4 says:

      The Scottish Express is beginning to froth at the mouth now.
      They will be quoting hell and damnation next.
      If it was not so tragic it would be quite funny.

    13. Andrew (Andy) Crow says:

      If Scotland is to be held to ‘once in a generation’ I want to see Boris Johnson ‘Dead in a ditch’.

      End of nonsense, please.

    14. galamcennalath says:

      And now for the actual situation in Scotland, hot from the SNP manifesto ….. “it must be for the Scottish Parliament not Westminster to decide when an independence referendum should be held – and the SNP intends that it will be in 2020. “

    15. callmedave says:

      Well said FM.

      Questions from ….Brian Taylor asks about Art 50 revoking it.

    16. desimond says:

      Even discussing ‘Having to ask’ says it all really.

      A Union of Equals my backside.

      Latest SNP Manifesto stating loud and CLEAR that an SNP Victory is a mandate for a referendum in 2020 decided by the SCOTTISH parliament.

      Looks like those courts are gonna be busy in 2020 but who sees a UK Supreme Court as doing us a favour.

    17. jfngw says:

      I presume the next bid will be 2321, the equilateral rule they will decide is the next option, maybe one for James Kelly.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      OT full manifesto….

    19. galamcennalath says:

      ‘Independence’ occurs 13 times in the manifesto, and always in robust language.

      Example … “An SNP election victory will be a clear instruction
      by the people of Scotland that a new referendum on independence should be held next year, on a precise date to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.”

      No one can say the gauntlet hasn’t been thrown down for 2020.

    20. starlaw says:

      Mist001 11;33am
      The people of Scotland will decide when we have a referendum, If we lose this one the find Brexit is a disaster, do you propose the Scots just meekly lie down, We have been meekly lying down for 300 years and now its over.

    21. kapelmeister says:


      With rising sea levels Westminster might be underwater by then. Of course Scotland will have long since left the union to avoid a different kind of total submersion.

    22. Colin Alexander says:

      Politicians stating opinions and beliefs and hoping to persuade is all part of politics.

      The British Imperials are entitled to believe no indyref should be held if Scotland has a chance of establishing the nation supports independence. Just as they can believe the “sun never sets on the British Empire”. However, it comes across as not only foolish but arrogant and dictatorial. An Imperial edict.

      Once in a generation. Clearly it was a mistake to state an opinion and make it sound like a fact. Has that lesson been learned?

      Now Nicola Sturgeon tells us, and acts on the premise or belief, that a s30 transfer of power and UK state cooperation is necessary and desireable. (Although, for the first time that I’ve heard, she admitted, that’s not a legally established fact, only her belief).

      Yet again, the people of Scotland are held ransom to the beliefs and opinions of politicians on both sides of the: British Empire’s colony v independence debate. Already, we’re back to arguing about Scotland’s FUTURE economic and political status as an independent nation (or sovereign member state of the EU) v as a colony of the UK.

      Crystal ball-gazing opinions. Mince. eg Andrew Neil’s interview with Nicola Sturgeon. Back to “Jam the morra” political campaigns, especially from the Imperials.

      Where is Scotland’s Gina Miller? Where is Scotland’s champion who will establish the legal answers to Scotland’s constitutional status regarding sovereignty / self-determination / dissolving the Union and the legal / constitutional consequences of that?

      We haven’t even established what we are and what we have constitutionally and economically NOW, so we are left with political hot air. Authoritative oratory may be impressive for politicians and their devotees but I think ordinary people prefer facts, truth, legal certainties.


      Stu has mainly focused on fact-checking and myth-busting. That’s why Stu’s blog has been the most respected, most feared (and most hated) by the professional politicians of the British imperial political parties AND the SNP and Scottish Greens.

      It’s been a winning formula but must seem like being in the film Groundhog Day. Facts beat assertions and opinions and Project Fear. That’s why the Wee Blue Book made such a positive impact.

      Now it’s Groundhog Day 2. We are back to debating the Empire’s narrative about the future of Scotland. Imperial Edicts. Opinions, promises, assertions, deception.

    23. Capella says:

      Just watched Nicola Sturgeon’s speech at the manifesto launch. Thought she was excellent and handled the press questions with great skill. The Guardian were live streaming it. Now for the BBC to edit it skillfully as we know they do.

    24. Jack Murphy says:

      gullaneno4 said at 11:36 am:

      ” The Scottish Express is beginning to froth at the mouth now.
      They will be quoting hell and damnation next.
      If it was not so tragic it would be quite funny. ”

      For the record here’s the Front Page of the ‘Scottish’ Express:

      “TORIES: NO NEW INDY VOTE TILL 2054”. [screaming Front Page]

      Meanwhile down in Express England their Front Page is:

      “HAS CORBYN’S HORROR SHOW GIFTED BORIS KEYS TO No 10?” [screaming again]

      Remember folks,this and other papers are regurgitated repeatedly throughout the day on the State Broadcaster in Scotland as a ‘discussion’.

      Frankly, this incestuous System stinks.

    25. galamcennalath says:

      The majority of Scots now believe that independence will happen. The debate has moved to being about timing and process.

      In that respect, YES supporters want action ASAP, while NO supporters want to delay as long as possible.

      The delaying approach of BritNats reveals totally their expections of winning IndyRef2. Not high.

      IMO we can boost the YES vote significantly by two things. Firstly get young people engaged, registered, voting. Secondly commit to bring the state pension up to at least the EU average.

    26. Colin Alexander says:

      Is that the modern version of the “How many….does it take to change a light bulb” joke?

      How many mandates does it take to hold a referendum?

    27. callmedave says:

      As I mentioned above it looks like the ‘various’ NHSs are going to play a much bigger part in the GE election.

      Boris has much huffing and hawing to do to explain what the 6 meetings with the US and UK representative have been up to.

      Jeremy has the ‘non-redacted’ minutes.

    28. Craig P says:

      We need another referendum as soon as possible. But it won’t be in 2020, or even 2021. I reckon we are looking at 2024, when a natural majority for it will already exist.

    29. Capella says:

      We are having a referendum in 2020. We can have another one in in 2024 if we want. We can have as many referendums as we want.

    30. Arthur Thomson says:

      A superb speech from Nicola Sturgeon.

      We are so fortunate to have her.

    31. Muscleguy says:

      @starlaw says:

      There were riots for several weeks after the Parliamentary Union. Then there was the ’45 with the promise of the parliament returned. The various radical movements in the 19thC. Various Home Rule promises (not lived up to because reasons but in there because of public opinion on the matter).

      All these show we have not been meekly lying down for 300years.

    32. I don’t know if 56 out of 59 MPs was not a reason for another Ref., what is we seem to be going over the same procedure over and over again I hate to say it but it sounds like the old unionist trick of jam tommorow what about today ???

    33. Dr Jim says:

      2054 So a clear indication of when the Tories think the oil runs out and not a week on Tuesday at all, or it could be they believe medical advances in Scotland will be so good that life expectancy in Scotland will soar to everyone living productive lives for over 140 years, I think most of us would get so bored with living that long we’d be pulling the plug on ourselves

      The Launch: Notice how relaxed the FM is at these turnouts of *journalistic chums* because when you don’t have to lie you don’t have to flim flam
      Compare and contrast with Corbyn and Johnson both of them flibble wobble planion and reeble all over the place waving bits of paper or documents to distract from themselves

      Nicola Sturgeon just stands there and delivers confidence and assured dialogue without resorting to any historyonics or bluster, she just tells it as she sees it

    34. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Craig P @ 12:19,

      It’s passive attitudes like this that make me despair. If you can’t see a main chance when it’s sitting up, flashing a big neon light, and shouting out loud right in front of your face, you’ll never win anything, ever. Loser.

      2024 or 2054, it’s all the same. Delay and give our opponents a chance to recover from the almighty guddle they are currently in and use their enhanced “Henry VIII” powers to lock us down? What planet indecisive are you on? It’s Unionists who are desperate for delay now, as we can clearly see from how they are reacting. They realise that their fake-imperious “allow” strategy is failing, and this is all they have left.

    35. manandboy says:

      IndyRef2 is a ‘threat’, say the Scottish branch of the London based Tory Party. So, a normal independent Scotland is already a threat, eh, like every other normal independent country is a ‘threat’.
      Jackson Carlaw has very little brain for a leader of the so-called Scottish Conservative Party. But then, none is needed.

    36. AD Connell says:

      Can anyone confirm that within the “Good Friday Agreement” the definition of a “political generation” is agreed to be 7 years.

    37. Scozzie says:

      What is wrong with the SNP – why can’t they campaign in this GE on a straightforward ticket of independence? They still seem stuck in this Stop Brexit madness and seeking yet another mandate for Indyref2 – we have our mandates (clocking up at 3 at the last count)! This whole S30 has put the SNP down a rabbit hole.

      Why is not being stressed from all SNP leadership that we already have the mandate as agreed in the Scottish Parliament, and that it will be enacted in this parliamentary term regardless of the outcome of the GE?
      What is all this talk from the SNP that ‘Scotland should get to choose its own future’? Scotland has already gave that permission via its 3 mandates.

      As for doing deals with British Labour, well that will end in disaster and betrayal! Although the likelihood of Labour forming a government is so remote that this looks like nothing more that a distraction.

      We need to vote SNP as we have no other choice – I accept that. But at the same time they are pushing independence supporters (of which many are not necessarily SNP voters)to the brink.
      Time to man up and get tough.

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Blair Paterson @ 12:35,

      You just don’t get it. (Nothing unusual there, then.) It’s not about numbers in HoC, it’s about the people of Scotland demonstrating to themselves and to others just where it sits about its own future.

      Realising that it’s at a big fork in the road and has to choose, and is consequently willing to make an opportunity to choose. Which is why Nicola said just a few minutes ago that this is the most crucial WM election yet.

    39. Gary45% says:

      So that will be the date the last drop of any natural resource on Scottish territory is extracted, and placed under total WM control.
      Any future natural power generation post 2054 will belong to our Imperial masters.
      Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid ???
      Wake up Scotland. Prove us wrong.
      SNP= The Future.

      LBC running with Corbyn releases documents to prove what the shyster Tories have been getting up to regards USA brexit trade deals.
      By simply doing that for the public to see, the man should be miles ahead in the poles with his morals and honesty, but no chance of that because he simply recognises the state of Palestine, and the right wing Zionist media don’t like.( That’s it in a nutshell)
      He could apologise every day, but because of his Palestinian beliefs, it will never be enough.
      If I lived in England he would get my vote as he is the only one with any principles / credibility in the Yoon parties, unfortunately his party have no idea about Scotland.

    40. Gary says:

      Just waiting for the BBC to jump all over this and speak up for the democratic will of the people. 2103 indeed.

      Stuff the BBC and all the horrible unionist media. they must be crapping it!!

    41. Scott says:

      Just watching the Politics program its always the same Jo Coburn really goes to town on the SNP and Lab but a very softly,softly tone when its a Tory.
      Come on please all vote SNP.

    42. Effijy says:

      We all know this don’t we.

      No one and no group of people other than a majority of Scots
      decide when a referendum is held!

      Nobody can dictate that referendums are once in a generation.

      The Tories have never done anything for Scotland in their history and Labour nothing in the last 50 years.

      SNP has the best performing NHS in the UK even with 10 years of Westminster austerity cuts taking £2 Billion from our budget.

      They froze the Council Tax when it was going out of control.

      They stopped prescription charges

      Hospital Parking Charges

      Road and Bridge Toll Charges

      Introduced free further education- saving me £27,000 for my child

      Delivered 95% of school leavers heading to a positive destination

      Saved Preswick Airport, the Steel jobs and fighting to save our

      Free personal care.

      Negated the Tory Bedroom Tax imposed on the disabled.

      There is much more but this is a lunch break.

      By voting for a Westimster Party you can insure that Scotland has no voice. Insulted and ignored in London, no say in Brexit negotiations, with 1 Tory MP out of 59 Scottish Seat we end up with a Tory Secretary of State and when the 1 Labour MP in Scotland fell out with Corbyn the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland was an English MP from Cumbria?

      When Scotland speaks Westminster walks out.

      When Wallonia and Saxo Coburg get to sit at the table with all the EU Leaders to determine Scotland’s future relationship with them, Scotland is not allowed to participate.

      Recognise that if every Brexit vote in Scotland was to Remain
      the English would still be dragging us out against our will.

      Scotland must rid itself of Westminster’s corruption, lies and deceit for ever no matter what it takes.

    43. Willie says:

      Let’s be clear. At the election on the 12th the only game in town is to give the SNP with the biggest vote possible – and then take it from there.

      Westminster and the British state is no democracy. But armed with an electoral majority and the majority of MPs gives us the opportunity to deliver what we want, what we need.

      Let England enslave it’s populace, remove all social and employment protections, and privatise the NHS.

    44. Mr Sutherland I think it is you don’t get it we are entitled to our own views on here and I can do without your playground sarcasm

    45. Effijy says:

      McTernan on Sky Burley show stabbing Corbyn in the back but discretely.

      This many time loser admits that if Jeremy doesn’t win the election he will be booted out.

      He knows that both are a done deal, but who would follow, McTernan?

      He is a Thatcherite leading Labour right up the creek.

    46. Brian says:

      If the Indy movement is to be held to a throwaway line of “once in a generation” hen the Vow should be met and the PM should be dead in a ditch. They want us to stick to promises or soundbites while they don’t have too.

      Gloves have to come off at some point.

    47. Artyhetty says:

      God yes maybe the SNP government are doing too good a job with free care for the elderly, and making Scotland’s National Health service far too effective so that people are living so long an all! 2054?!!

      What the Britnats gonna do? Put themselves into cryogenic stasis so they can come out and haunt the actual living young folks demanding an indy ref in 2045 or 2054! ‘No more referendums’ wooooo, wooooo.

      Or maybe they will demand a 99% turnout or you lose lolz.
      My they are desperate, oh well what goes round comes round Britnats, you can’t keep attempting to tamper with democracy to suit yourselves!

    48. Stuart MacKay says:

      Colin Alexander @12:07pm

      We are back to debating the Empire’s narrative about the future of Scotland.

      Well said. It’s an excellent point and everybody should go to great lengths to avoid giving this any oxygen of publicity since whoever controls the narrative controls the debate.

      However I think “date inflation” is a clear sign that this approach is no longer working. Other “why you can’t” memes like the Spanish veto are apparently on their last legs too. With nothing but tired old negatives and nothing positive being offered this is clearly the last dregs of energy and will to keep it together. All that is needed is to push home the advantage.

    49. jfngw says:

      Leni Kuenssberg quick off the mark to defend Boris Johnson NHS sell off, rest of BBC journalists move to damage limitation and immediately move onto anti-semitism.

      It won’t off course be sold as a job lot, much more subtle than that. More like the BBC where whole sections are sold to private companies but the executives will remain to manage the contracts. The bits with the best returns will be sold then these companies will attempt to monetise them for their advantage. You put in a low bid to gain the contract but ensure certain aspects are excluded (or obfuscated) and can then be billed for outside the contract.

    50. callmedave says:

      MSPs back compromise on indyref2 question

    51. msean says:

      Funny how democracy often seems to end with right wingers in power,not planned or anything.

      Pure coincidence,so it is.

    52. Breeks says:


      Right now…

      Shelagh Fogarty on LBC asking whether Scottish Independence is inevitable… very fair so far…

    53. Breeks says:

      Spoke too soon… two apparent YES to No voters… albeit thoroughly unconvincing they ever were YES voters… but it was good before.

    54. galamcennalath says:

      Brian says:

      If the Indy movement is to be held to a throwaway line of “once in a generation” hen the Vow should be met and the PM should be dead in a ditch.

      Indeed ….

      – once in a generation
      – partnership of equals
      – The Vow
      – as close to federal as is possible
      – dead in a ditch

      …. the road to Indy is paved with rapidly superseded sound bites.

    55. Gary45% says:

      Aye it was a good hours worth of radio, only heard one Yes to No, a lass from Glasgow.

    56. callmedave says:

      BBC snips out the nearly all of the long aaapplauusse after FM
      sentence ends with “it’s not up to you”as she refers to Boris and Jeremy not allowing a Scottish referendum.

      Err!.. Too long so had to go for technical reasons says BBC. 🙂

    57. starlaw says:

      Breeks . . Trust nothing from London, and you will never be disappointed, LBC needs a license from Westminster to broadcast.

    58. kapelmeister says:

      What next from the Tories?

      Is Annie Wells going to say she’s built a time machine similar to the fictional one created by her namesake H. G. Wells? She’s been to the year 802 721 A.D. and the Morlocks have just agreed to an indyref2.

      So no more talk of independence Scotland, till the Eight Thousandth and Twenty-Eighth Century!

    59. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 13:58,

      Yes, that’s another tactic, and one we’ve seen before. The young black youth in 2014 who appeared on at least two BBC programmes, each time as a self-declared “undecided” at the start, but by the end of the programme had become a definite “no”. (Whatever happened to him?)

      Vox pops and the like be damned. They are a tool that can be used to “prove” any old thing. Ought to be banned, and not least during elections.

      A variant of the kind of thing we’re rather familiar with on here and elsewhere. “I’m a supporter of indy but…”

      (Some of course are just idiots. =sigh=)

    60. Bob Mack says:

      somebody had better tell Labour there is no hope of raising £11 billion from oil and gas. They seem to think its possible.

      There’s Scotlands deficit and more .

      Meanwhile Norway posts profits of around £20 billion yet again with the same number kf fields. Im beginning to think some accounting trick is concealing ghe UKs total take from energy. Silly me.

    61. TheItalianJob says:


      Unfortunately one of my friends who voted Yes with all of his Family is also a leave voter and will be voting No in next Indyref.

      Shame but that’s the reality of it.

    62. HandandShrimp says:

      There will be no indyref2 until Grand Moff Tarkin parks the death star in Earth’s orbit in 2860…and Boris is going to die in a ditch over that pledge.

    63. robbo says:

      Gary45% says:
      27 November, 2019 at 2:10 pm
      Aye it was a good hours worth of radio, only heard one Yes to No, a lass from Glasgow.

      Yes to No- wtf?

      Obviously she’s had a bang on heid and been associating too much way Annie Wells and Zer Murdo Fraser at OO walks during the summer.

    64. Golfnut says:


      Thanks for the link.

      Good to see one of the amendments calls for legislation to make it an offence to mislead during referendums. That hopefully will cover the media. I so hope that one gets passed.

    65. Joris Bonsi says:

      I made John Nicholson a nice cuppa, whist in the Adam Smith Building albeit last century.

    66. dadsarmy says:

      The frightening thing is, if one postulates that some of the older Tories actually expect to be around in 2054, or indeed, 2103 or 2707, it makes you wonder,

      just how many of the Tories were around in 1707.

    67. dadsarmy says:

      Note to self: buy more garlic.

    68. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      TheItalianJob @ 14:23,

      Well, if too many think like them they’ll get their leave all right, and then a lifetime afterwards to regret it, because that’s all they’ll get. (Oh, except being told thereafter to be grateful and shut up.)

      It’s really a question about what is more important: have a future that we can choose for ourselves (with all the majority choices that will in due course follow, like them or not, as we all eventually will) or one that someone else forces upon us regardless.

      I’m reminded of a very similar kind of choice that Ben Franklin posited, though about security: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither”.

    69. dadsarmy says:

      Okey-doke, this is what we need from Sturgeon, it gives the press solid headlines: “Nicola Sturgeon puts indyref2 at heart of SNP election manifesto”.

      Not so good is Nicholson thinking he’s standing for East Dunbartonshire, and Alyn Smith thinking he’s standing for the Green Party. How on earth can these people make such basic blunders? Both in marginal seats, both reviously likely to win their seats.

      It’s kind of like the time Bob Hope stood on stage at the Apollo to huge applause and said “Gee, it’s great to be back in England”, to be booed straight off stage.

    70. Stephen McKenzie says:

      callmedave 14:11

      Yes I noticed that as well! The BBC at is very best!

      They never learn on how many people now actually look for examples of their deception and selective editing in order to educate others on what they are up to.

    71. Dr Jim says:

      I found it strange that the chief Rabbi in England had to make a public point of directly addressing Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, a party from another country and party with the best record in the UK of standing up for minorities and faiths, over *concerns* about Jeremy Corbyns anti semitic problems and behaviour in England

      Did the chief Rabbi want Scotlands FM to support a particular party or none, the Liberal Democrats as far as I’m aware haven’t been mentioned on this topic, why not? they have a history of supporting and indeed in coalition with the Tories so why not mention them

      What about asking the Greens not to support or deal with somebody, or the Brexit party, or Plaid Cymru, why a public statement directed towards the SNP a political party in another country whose sole aim is to divorce themselves from UK politics not reinforce them

      England and its people really should get a grip of who and what they think Scotland is, we’re not a region of England and we have no power in their country, even the parliamentary system excludes Scotland from making certain decisions that Westminster thinks Scotland should have no locus in (EVEL)

      Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister of a devolved government in another country (Scotland) not the leader of the UN or something (well not at the moment) did the chief Rabbi ask the Welsh FM or Arlene Foster to get involved or not get involved in political or racial problems in a country outwith their remit? I doubt it, so what’s going on?

      Scotlands FM can do no more that condemn racism happening in another country by another political party she can’t interfere in it’s policy decisions she can only comment or offer persuation against it

      I’m sure the chief Rabbi is an excellant man but he’s talking to the wrong Minister in the wrong country, Boris Johnson is the Prime Minister of all four countries, has the chief Rabbi no confidence in him, if not that’s the point he should be addressing to the media not what the nice lady FM in Scotland should be doing

    72. Mist001 says:

      This post further up caught my eye, so I thought it was worth discussing:

      “galamcennalath says 27 November, 2019 at 11:50 am

      ‘Independence’ occurs 13 times in the manifesto, and always in robust language.

      Example … “An SNP election victory will be a clear instruction
      by the people of Scotland that a new referendum on independence should be held next year, on a precise date to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.”

      No one can say the gauntlet hasn’t been thrown down for 2020.”

      Re-read it carefully and let it sink in.

      It says “SHOULD be held next year”

      Which is a completely different thing from saying it WILL be held next year.

      The other parties will simply say ‘Well, we don’t think it SHOULD be held next year.

      And we’re back to having yet another mandate that’s ignored all round by all the political parties, including it has to be said, the SNP. They’ve managed to ignore the existing mandates well enough so far.

      Watch the weasel words on ALL sides. They’re politicians, remember? It’s what they do.

    73. mogabee says:

      Counting the days, bored out of my box with politics atm.

      Don’t know how you do it Stu but I’m ready to savage the next prick that tries to tell Scotland what to do!

    74. robbo says:

      Must admit wan o ma favs on the twitter this week

      Good auld dear xx

    75. Confused says:

      – just on the telly …

      adam tompkins bullshit needs to be called out

      – what is hard about YES or NO
      – in what way did it fail before
      – are you saying scottish people do not understand a binary question

      he parrotts a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense

      “rigging the rules”
      “ramming a bill thru parliament”
      “an unwanted second referendum”
      “dodgy questions”

      – any good interviewer would challenge every one of these assertions and the implied assumptions under each

      this is another sneaky tactic – the layering of implied assumptions, which go unchallenged

      ha – he is saying “all questions have to be tested with all people throughout the UK”
      – fuck off
      – what a fucking dick
      – he talks so fast so you cannot challenge his bullshit
      – the other guy needs to smack him down for talking over people


      – just watched war of the worlds – these tripod fellas have quite a bit about them – theyre not asking for a “section 40 – permission for alien invasion” to be granted by westminster; its brash, its confident, its ballsy – maybe someone can send them an SNP membership form; useful bunch of lads (- we should get them flu shots tho)

    76. Achnababan says:

      BBC up to its tricks again – this clip was ostensibly to allow Johnston to refute claims about the NHS being sold off to the US…. but Johnston in this edited clip is still allowed to get his key message over about ‘Getting Brexit Done’

      This should have been edited out…. unless of course the BBC are part of the Tory propoganda machine

    77. kapelmeister says:

      The Tories have suspended their candidate in Glasgow Central over alleged anti-Muslim remarks. How many candidates will they manage to take with them to polling day?

    78. kapelmeister says:

      The Tories are now two candidates down in Scotland. Ruth’s encouragement of ultra right wingers into the party is now bearing very rotten fruit.

    79. Scott says:

      I hear that it is not settled that Boris will be challenged by Brilo,I don’t he will get the same grilling as the FM.

    80. mr thms says:

      Who sanctioned this?

      Compare the BBC’s coverage of the SNP manifesto launch today.

      (That article has EIGHT reporters contributing to it!)

      with their anonymously written article about Scottish Labour’s manifesto!

      BBC interference?

      And I don’t mean the reception.

    81. Republicofscotland says:

      Basically the unionist politicians in the UK are saying we don’t care if you have a majority or a mandate, you can stuff your democratic process we’re not giving the people of Scotland the right to choose their future.

      This is what they think of you, your votes and voices on self determination are in their eyes nil and void, and probably always will be.

    82. Ann says:

      Here was me? a generation was 16/18 years not a life time.

    83. galamcennalath says:

      So, now all the parties have laid out their plans and timescales for IndyRef2.

      And, in the traditions of democratic choice whoever wins in Scotland gets to dictate the arrangements. Yes?

      Somehow, I don’t quite think that’s what the BritNats, Tories in particular, have in mind! They will get thrashed in this country in this election but will then ignore their defeat and the SNP’s win.

    84. What about the promise to stay in the EU, that was only made 3years ago.

    85. galamcennalath says:

      robbo says:

      Must admit wan o ma favs on the twitter this week

      Yup, an auld wummin who can spot a buffoon when she sees one.

      I have heard the rumour that Tory activists are being met with a lot of “don’t like Boris” and to a lesser extent “Brexit is mad” from their supporters.

      We hope this translates into them not voting, for once.

      A lot of elderly Tories believe the party they have given life long support to is something quite different to what it has become. Boris may be the catalyst which finally opens their eyes. One nation / centre-right conservatism died long ago.

    86. Craig Fisher says:

      I’m past caring what a party from another country has to say about an independence referendum for Scotland.

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Thing is, if the BritNats had kept their promises …. DevoMax, partnership of equals, staying in the EU, etc …. then it is highly unlikely we’d be talking about IndyRef2.

      Actions have consequences.

      From our perspective, their actions have given us opportunities.

    88. chicmac says:

      40 years! FFS, there are lots of folk who are grandparents at 40, that’s into a third generation.

      Not that I am at all conceding that Alex Salmond’s opinion, which he made clear was his own opinion, was in any way binding on the SNP nor that it was about anything other than imagining the SNP losing power after the referendum and taking some years to get back.

    89. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      William Purves @ 16:21,

      Ach, it’s well-known that Unionist promises (and Vows) are entirely disposable, whereas indy promises are immutable, no matter what. Even the ones that weren’t made. (Where did 2054 come from?)

      The mainstream media tell me so every day, by their skewed words and deeds. By their abject failure to pursue the truth – the whole truth.

    90. Republicofscotland says:

      MSP calls for East Dunbartonshire MP Jo Swinson to return £14k she accepted from the director of a fracking company, who’d have thought it eh.

    91. wull says:

      The following is based on something I read somewhere, maybe even here on Wings, some time ago. I have never been able to check it out, so if it’s mistaken information please let everyone know and correct it.

      The only place I ever heard of where the term ‘a generation’ is legally defined, moreover in regard to re-running a referendum, is in the Good Friday agreement. There, I am told, ‘a generation’ is specifically defined as ‘seven years’. A second (or, presumably, third or fourth) referendum on Northern Ireland leaving the UK and joining the Republic can apparently take place seven years after the previous such referendum, and those seven years are considered ‘a generation’.

      In that case, coming six years and three months after September 2014, the end of 2020 would be only nine months short of ‘a generation’. Given the truly extreme change of circumstances since 2014, and that some no doubt voted ‘No’ in 2014 precisely in order to be sure of staying in Europe, I don’t believe it would be reasonable to suppose that a mere 9 months should be enough to stop us from going ahead with Indyref2.

    92. Dan says:

      William Purves says: at 4:21 pm

      What about the promise to stay in the EU, that was only made 3years ago.

      This 100%. Apart from the obvious point that Scotland’s geographic location means we are in the European continent. The EU with approx. 550 million folk is arguably the most successful trading block on the planet with high standards of regulation, which as a Member State we have a say in influencing for the greater good as and when new technology or discoveries become known.
      It’s utter fucking madness to think an isolated little shit of “a country” with around 65 million will have any significant leverage to haggle good trade deals with much larger trading blocks.
      The UK is about to find out first hand what it’s like suffer as Scotland has for 300 years, namely being dictated to by a larger entity.

      Plus in this day and age there is the obvious environmental impact of shunning products from your “local” area only to transport products from more distant continents that will most likely be of lower standards.

      The 2014 Indyref, and the EU ref. results are incompatible.
      Due to the stupidity of David Cameron trying to deal with the infighting in his own Conservative party between the Eurosceptics and Europhiles and holding the EU ref. we find ourselves where we are.
      ALL this shit is on them so they can simply piss off if they think they can shit the bed and ask us to stay and sleep in it.

    93. Defo says:

      Re ‘Generation ‘
      I’m pretty sure that the clue’s in the name.
      I.e. The time between birth, & having kids of your own.
      Guess, around 27ish years.
      Let them howl at the moon, we will decide when.

    94. carjamtic says:

      Why would they want to delay ?

      ‘With limited opportunities in society, rationing is achieved through higher entry requirements to both the labour and housing markets. The extent to which people can meet those requirements is still a matter of where they were born in the social hierarchy, rather than when they were born.

      Indeed, wealth is generally transferred from older to younger generations via inheritance, rather than withheld: the problem is that this reinforces inequalities within cohorts, as richer people benefit more from transfers of family wealth.

      People’s access to health care, education and housing are determined by policy and the economy, not their date of birth, and the hype about generational conflict only serves to mask the real inequalities in society’

    95. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Defo @ 17:22,

      They don’t even have a consistent play on that, because increasingly it’s being morphed into “once in a lifetime”, as the Labour stooge / SiU shill told me at the door a few days ago. Moving goalposts being a BritNat speciality.

      What they really mean – but are far too cowardly to say straight out – is “never”. Because they greatly fear that when it does happen next year they are going to lose.

    96. Dr Jim says:

      I’ve had goldfish that have died after a couple of days, I’d say that was a generation to them
      Some places you can be a grannie by 20 and if you’ve got a banjo you can be in the band to celebrate it

      Stuff changes and they know it, they’re just hanging on to any words anybody said sometime about something, if we stuck to stupidity like that we’d never have invented boats in case we sailed off the edge of the world

      There’s a well known few words of course “I have in my hand the piece of paper” two minutes later we were at war… again

      All three British political parties are pathetic weasles 300 years ago we’d have just killed the Bastirts for being arseholes now we can vote their arseholes out

    97. galamcennalath says:

      In ancient Athens, ostracism was the process by which any citizen, including political leaders, could be expelled from the city-state for 10 years. Once a year, ancient Athenian citizens would nominate people they felt threatened democracy—because of political differences, dishonesty, or just general dislike.

      When the Athenians meant “voted out” they really did mean it!

    98. chicmac says:

      BTW the FM of N.I. can call a referendum every 7 years if he/she wants. It is written into the Good Friday treaty.

    99. Just listened to Stewart Hosie being interviewed by the British Brainwashing Conglomeration – Seems that James Kelly’s 50% idea is gaining traction.

      So the BBC has now decided that unless we achieve over 50% of the vote then it is undemocratic to become Independent- oh, and it seems that if Brexit is cancelled then we have NO mandate for a second Indy ref .

      Correct me if I’m wrong but I think the wording says … ” a significant change in circumstances e.g. being dragged out of Europe against our will” but Nicola herself said, in the last few days, that we only need to look at how Scotland has been ignored, blocked out of negotiations,and generally being treated as insignificant in the past few years to realise that this is no longer a Union of Equals – a significant change I think.

      However, the BBC is now saying that we need to get 50% or more of the vote for it to be truly democratic. Hosie was good and managed the last word which was that the whole idea that the UK can be elected on 37% of the vote, Brexit can be enacted by a similar total but Scotland has to get 50% as ‘Preposterous!!!”

    100. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Now that we (sorta) know what the Tories would prefer, what I’m just bursting to discover is what “indyref event horizon” Jo Swindleson and Dicky Mouseheart are each wishing for Christmas.

      Is it anything definite, or receding apace into the distant future like the Tory goalposts?

    101. Famous15 says:

      The SNP leaders seem to have an electronic interferometer in their pockets since everytime they appear on BBC the sound gets scrambled! Gosh and jings.

    102. twathater says:

      Watched the politics show where coburn involved a couple of her panel to ask if Scotland should be given PERMISSION for another indy ref, her chooms gleefully trashed the idea , THIS is exactly why Nicola should constantly highlight the FACT that Scots are not asking PERMISSION but are ONLY seeking agreement regarding the outcome

      Needless to say the television was a ba hair away from destruction , but do these churnalists never ever think to look at history do they constantly have to SHOW their ignorance , Scotland voluntarily ( boak ) signed up to a treaty of union where 2 kingdoms agreed to join as equal partners and coalesce into a united kingdom, at no time then or since has Scotland relinquished her equality or been subsumed or captured

      It is merely having elected unionist tory and liebour collaborators in our country for generations that the english exceptionalists have assumed that they have captured us , and with the willing collusion and cooperation of a rampant biased media the brainwashing and denigration has amplified .

      I like many other Scots have had the scales removed from my eyes and will NEVER go back to being quashed
      And the sooner these unionist collaborators are removed from OUR parliament alongside their media shills the sooner Scotland will flourish

    103. callmedave says:

      Partner just finished a UGov poll.

      One Q How is PM BJ doing and FM NS doing.

      She wont tell me more. 🙁

    104. jfngw says:

      Madame de Pompadour still tweeting furiously in defence of Boris Johnson.

    105. jfngw says:

      It would seem the BBC Scotland newsroom confeerence call in the morning goes like ‘what handouts do we have from Lab/Tory/Libdem, if there is nothing then lets just go with a SNHS story, we’re only on day ten so it still has legs’.

    106. callmedave says:

      Worth a peek. Curates egg stuff.

    107. manandboy says:

      The Unionists are running scared, not because of Scotland’s Independence, but because of the consequences for England. Economically, the losses will be incalculable, but the loss of face as the British Empire breathes its last on Independence day will be extremely hard to bear for our Imperial Masters.

    108. jfngw says:

      Is it not about time that you can only stand for the Scottish Parliament if you have registered party based in Scotland. What other country allows politicians controlled by another country into its legislator.

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      Stuart Hosie was questioned about indyref2 on the BeeB’s Radio 4.

      The Beeb, as in British Evil Empire Broadcasters.

      Mr Hosie tells the BeeB the SNP have 3 mandates already for indyref2 and seeking a fourth. So indyref2 cannot be refused.

      According to the Empire’s radio presenter, the SNP don’t have a mandate for indyref2 and won’t unless they win most seats in Scotland AND 50% plus of the votes cast in Scotland.

      Mr Hosie compared the situation with the Empire’s govts and pointed out largest party with most seats earns the right to put their manifesto into effect.

      That doesn’t apply for the SNP in Scotland though, as they’re no the British Govt, says the man from the BEEB.

      Another reminder that Scotland is treated like a colony.

    110. dadsarmy says:

      Lest there be any doubt or wormtongues:

      The choice of making Scotland an independent nation is in your hands

      There is a clear mandate to hold a referendum on independence during the current term of the Scottish Parliament. Scotland has already voted for it but Westminster has so far refused to respect that mandate.

      A vote for the SNP in this election, therefore, is a vote to endorse the following position:

      • the people of Scotland have the right to choose their own future in a new referendum on becoming an independent country,
      • it must be for the Scottish Parliament not Westminster to decide when an independence referendum should be held – and the SNP intends that it will be in 2020.

      An SNP election victory will be a clear instruction by the people of Scotland that a new referendum on independence should be held next year, on a precise date to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.

    111. jfngw says:


      Another reason they want to keep Scotland is it covers their economic failures, they fall back on ‘it’s all going well, it’s Scotland, Wales & NI that are dragging us down’. When these three countries leave then the cumulated failure of their policies will be there for all to see.

      It takes a certain amount of myopia to believe that the vast majority of the deficit of the UK falls to the three smallest countries.

    112. Sarah says:

      @jfngw at 6.37. Of course you are right. And I wrote to the FM saying that only Scottish parties should be allowed to stand candidates in Scotland. No satisfactory response, I’m afraid. Perhaps FM thinks it would stir up too much opposition and frighten the No voters?

      But the advantage would be that they would have a smaller pool of money for campaigning and it might even make them stand up more for Scotland? [Don’t laugh.]

    113. manandboy says:

      The most obvious result of the poll in Scot goes Pop, is the projected 366 seats for the Tories. Labour will surely not come from 167 seats back to either win or form a minority government. A Tory victory will seal England’s fate and leave Scotland with no choice. At least it will be clear-cut and therefore easier for the Scottish government to deal with.

      Vote SNP. Vote Scottish Independence. Vote Remain EU.

    114. Dr Jim says:

      The Labour party have said they won’t stand for another election until 2060 if Boris Johnson wins this one

      Well that’s what they said in their PPB when they said “This is a once in a generation chance to vote Labour”

    115. Albaman says:

      I believe that the Conservative (Westminster Government) has indicated “we won’t allow it”, referring to the demands for another independent ref,
      Does that mean we’re slaves, with no rights ?.

    116. manandboy says:

      Cracks appear in the dam holding back thousands of valuable artefacts looted by ‘British’ forces from the Colonies.

      “Bronze cockerel to be returned to Nigeria by Cambridge college”

      “Benin bronze statue at Jesus College to be repatriated after 1897 theft by British forces”

    117. Dan says:


      It’ll be interesting to see if the various polling out there is able to be receptive to and reflect the apparent recent and seemingly large voter registration uptake by younger folk.

      Heard from a few of sources that many younger folk who couldn’t vote in 2014 Indyref but are now old enough to vote in their first GE are mobilising.
      My local electoral office carpark was packed which is unusual, and I suspect they had extra staff in to process applications. It was a hive of activity in the office itself and I’ve never seen it so busy with many more staff than usual milling about with piles of applications, which I duly added to…

      Here’s hoping those young minds hold a positive belief less corrupted by BBC propaganda, and that they can envisage that Scotland, with its incredible volume of diverse resources, can be a better place to live once we reclaim the power to govern ourselves from Westminster.

    118. Republicofscotland says:

      Well there you have it, the British state propaganda machine is substituting Neil for Kuenssberg when Johnson takes up the hot seat. The fix is in the decks stacked the games rigged.

      “This Friday night, Laura Kuenssberg will be interviewing Boris Johnson as part of our Leaders Interview series. This will conclude our Leaders interview series ahead of the General Election on December 12th.”

    119. Davie Oga says:

      THE FM getting slapped down using GERS figures on Sky fact check. Whose bright idea was it to go along with with the guesstimate propoganda. Should never have given any credence to it at all until audited accurate figures were forthcoming. At least their was no SNP representative to with validating, the “deficit is getting better” pish.

    120. jfngw says:


      It’s a fake account, Johnson is not being interviewed by anyone, not even Madame de Pompadour. He is avoiding any scrutiny, in fact there seems to be a number of Tories currently in hiding. They are just putting up those who they think the public like, when you consider one of these is Michael Gove you realise just how short of talent they rally are.

    121. Republicofscotland says:


      Oh right, I see, had my blood pressure when I first read it.


    122. galamcennalath says:

      New Tory motto … “Hide when you think you are ahead.”

    123. katherine hamilton says:

      Anyone know if the 7.30pm Neil v Swinson was pulled. Checked in at 7.45pm to a documentary.

    124. mr thms says:

      Davie Oga @ 7:41 pm

      “THE FM getting slapped down using GERS figures on Sky fact check.”

      I notice it does not dispute the £340 billion in revenues collected by the Treasury.

    125. galamcennalath says:

      OT, but relevant. This is an interesting article about professional trolls. The context is Russia versus America. Our enemies will not be in Russia. However the modus operandi sounds awfully familiar.

      “Professional trolls are good at their job. They have studied us. They understand how to harness our biases for their own purposes. The professionals know you catch more flies with honey. They don’t go to social media looking for a fight; they go looking for new best friends. As good marketers, professional trolls manipulate our emotions subtly. “

    126. manandboy says:

      Read this and suddenly Boris is a planet killer.

      Climate emergency: world ‘may have crossed tipping points’
      Warning of ‘existential threat to civilisation’ as impacts lead to cascade of unstoppable events

    127. Breeks says:

      Just a small point, but if the UK Tories, the US Government and US Medicare Companies have been talking about post-Brexit Trade Deals for over 3 years, doesn’t that mean the UK has been breaking EU Law?

    128. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 21:18,

      I wondered about that as well, but they get round it, I think, by saying it’s just “talks about talks”.

      But the subject matter is revealing all the same. Potential sellouts by the dozen, on the US side (big pharma) and the EU side (continued access to Scottish waters).

      Anyone who still believes BoZo’s assurances about any of these is in need of urgent psychological help.

    129. Effijy says:

      Tory caught lying, cheating and deceiving.

      Is there anything else they can do?

    130. Ronnie says:

      I’ll be 68. Bring it on!

    131. scotspatriot says:

      Breaking..Reuter’s are reporting Yougov poll tonight will show a significant lead for Tories.
      Now, I implore anyone out there , who thinks they’re Scottish, to vote SNP.
      Drop all your existential bollocks and make sure you vote SNP !

      The poll is important as this same projection from Yougov was the most accurate poll in 2017.

    132. Effijy says:

      BBC Bias you better believe it.

      They just don’t give a damn about trying to cover it.

    133. jfngw says:

      Monica Lennon getting all hot and bothered about temporary operating theatres at Hairmyres. She is going to be livid when she finds out they have been used in Labour run Wales (2017).

    134. Tam Fae somewhere says:

      Mr Johnson hiding from 30 minutes against Andrew Neil.

      What a coward.

      Is this behaviour of a real leader? Nope. Definitely not.

    135. K1 says:

      That forecast from yougov has only 2 Tory seats being taken in Scotland, the rest predicted from Labour:

      ‘The SNP are on course to secure a further eight seats, although crucially for the Tories’ chance of securing their majority, only two come from Boris Johnson’s party (Stirling, and East Renfrewshire). By contrast, Labour are set to lose five seats to the SNP, with the Lib Dems losing one.’

      How can anyone still keep those other 11 Tory seats in Scotland after this past 2 years, I mean Labour are wiped out down to 2 MP’s but the Tories predicted to retain 11?

      Doesn’t make sense.

    136. AndyMcKangry says:

      K1 it’s a YouGov poll!!
      If the Tories keep those seats then 2 things.
      Plague and pestilence on those seats, cause the F***Wits will reap what they sew
      I’ll eat my pants!!

    137. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      scotspatriot @ 21:45,

      Well, just another poll, but it could foretell a lot of bubbles being popped right there, another EURef included.

      Conclusion: if need be, still time for folks to recalibrate and not invest their future on no-hopers and dead-ends, which in Scotland means – as you rightly say – vote SNP, no question about it.

      I just hope all those newly-registered young’uns are sufficiently well-informed to avoid another generation of people being led nowhere except to more BritNat broken promises, betrayal and heartbreak.

    138. Heart of Galloway says:

      Quick summary of a surprisingly balanced piece by Lorna Gordon from Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock on BBC 10 news.

      Ex-Labour voter: “I’m voting Tory to stop the SNP.
      Gordon to anothet ex-Labour voter: “How did you vote at the last election?”
      – SNP.
      – And now?
      – SNP.
      – Does that mean you’re in favour of independence?
      – I suppose so, aye.

      At Ayr Ice Rink, that hotbed of Yes-dom.
      Gordon to lady curler:

      – Europe, Leave or Renain?
      – My husband has a business which trades abroad. So Remain, absolutely.
      Second lady ciurler – I’m voting for Boris Johnson to keep a check on NS. (!!)

      Lassie in social enterprise cafe in Ayr: “We need some change for people at the margins. The social security system does not work.”

      – “How will you vote?”
      – “I’ll be voting SNP.”

      And that’s alll folks.

      If the SNP can take seats like this one it will strengthen their arguments that Scotland’s future should be in Scotland’s hand.

    139. McDuff says:

      The reality is as always its E

    140. McDuff says:

      The reality is as always that it is England that is dictating what we can and can`t do but as usual hiding behind the UK
      Because of the population differential there is no democracy for Scotland we get what England decides so NS needs to start aggressively reminding Westminster of that fact.

    141. Heart of Galloway says:

      Edit to my post above: That last paragraph was Laura Gordon’s concluding comment.

    142. Dr Jim @3.14

      At the risk of being accused on anti-semitism, the Chief Rabbi may well be citing the FM as an example of a country standing up hate speech but it seems he is a good( ?) friend of Boris Johnson and there is a tweet of him + group photo congratulating his friend Boris upon becoming the PM.

      You don’t suppose for one minute that there could have been mischief ??? in his remark which is causing so much headline discussion – even headlining on the World Service.

      It all stems from Corbyn’s principled refusal to fully back the recent definition of Israel owing to his wish to stand up for Palestine ( Those dreadful terrorists, don’t you know….)

    143. mike cassidy says:

      And its a certainty Kuennsburg will give Johnson a political blowjob in that interview.

    144. jockmcx says:

      Is there a pinochio nose emoji!,that would be handy
      or nosey!

      BBc nosenight
      the nose at six
      the nose at ten

    145. Fireproofjim says:

      Check out YouGov poll and scroll down to the Scottish conclusions.
      The Tories are predicted to hang on to eleven seats in Scotland (losing two) but many of them are shown to be vulnerable.
      The borders and the North East may have five or six safer Tory seats but I don’t think they will hold all eleven

    146. mike cassidy says:

      “The essence of a class system is not that the privileged are conscious of their privileges, but that the deprived are conscious of their deprivations”

      Clive James

    147. stonefree says:

      “You don’t suppose for one minute that there could have been mischief ??? ” Yes
      Miriam Margolyes spoke on Channel 4 News last night she spoke highly of Corbyn and his personal views ie him not being antisemitic, BUT not as a leader.
      If the Tories are seriously worried over a defeat,or even a close tie.
      Does anyone think that all that Tory backer are alledged to have riding on this ,that seeds could or would not have every chance of being planted in the ear of the Chief Rabbi

    148. dadsarmy says:

      Yes, that model of impartiality, the Chief Rabbi:

      Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis wrote on Facebook: “I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister.” (July 23, 2019)

    149. Gary says:

      It doesn’t matter what was said in the past, when you fulfil the latest criteria they’ll move the goalposts yet again. The wording of the Edinburgh Agreement is long forgotten, the words spoken when signing it have evaporated. Thatcher’s words “if Scots want independence all they need do is return a majority of SNP MPs to Parliament” are VERY much consigned to the bin.

      Whatever promises they make are always lies, it’ll never happen unless we can force it…

    150. Heart of Galloway says:

      Debate night on 115 was very much the Joanna Cherry show.

      JC Reallt got tore in to the odious Miles Briggs.

      So tore in fact that she almost had to be physically restrained by host Stephen Jardine.

      And most importantly the Fife audience seemed a fair reflection of the Kingdom at large – on balance pro SNP, hostile to the Tories, Lib Dems a sideshow.

      And Labour? Glesca coonciillor Matt Kerr was stultifyingly bad.

      Despite being separated from Joanna Cherry by the amply proportioned Briggs, at almost every turn he ignored Tory austerity to weigh against JC – to zero effect with the audience.

      The almost quizzical expression on their faces spoke more volumes than the Encylopedia Brittanica.

      And the unspoken message was unmistakeable: “Oh aye, the Labour Party. I remember them once.”

      Labour, emaciated and fleabitten, will soon have a HUGE call to make on IndyRef2.

      But in all likelihood they will forget how Being Better Together with the Tories cut them off at the knees in Scotland.

      How alonst half of their remaining voters would vote for Indy.

      And how – as Stu’s recent analysis showed – that former Labour voters make up around 30 per cent of the current SNP support.

      A blind man in a darkened room can see where Labour’s only road to recovery lies.

      But the northern branch office dimwits’ bitterness towards the SNP and the wider YES movement is such that it renders them incapable of saving themselves.

      The same goes for the Lib Dems – whose GE aspirations are diminishing faster than Jo Swinson said she would launch a nuclear war.

      Johnson may yet do something so catastrophically crass that enough people are shocked into understanding that he is a reckless lying fraud.

      But I won’t hold my breath. There is a huge media collusion with BawJaws’ campaign point man to ensure such a thing never happens.

      Never in the field of recent political history has getting the SNP vote out been so important.

    151. Dr Jim says:

      MSP SNP Minister Aileen Campbell’s office has been vandalised and smeared with paint reading SNP OUT, Police Scotland are investigating

    152. Joe says:

      Totally off topic buuuuuuut – Trump might just intend on pardoning Julian Assange.

      Remember it was your favorite contributor to the WOS comments that told you.:)

    153. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      dadsarmy @ 00:00,

      Religious leaders of any kind are ill-advised aligning themselves with any particular political movement or figure, not only because it risks dangerously conflating religious belief with political belief – an anathema which has taken Europe centuries of bloody history to (mostly) learn, even if the lesson apparently hasn’t been sufficiently learnt in Israel of all places – but also because it risks – as in this particular case – bringing their beliefs into serious disrepute by association with unsavoury persons of low moral worth.

    154. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Heart of Galloway @ 00:15:

      Despite being separated from Joanna Cherry by the amply proportioned Briggs, at almost every turn [Lab cooncillor Kerr] ignored Tory austerity to weigh against JC


      But in all likelihood they will forget how Being Better Together with the Tories cut them off at the knees in Scotland

      Oh, they have forgotten. Totally. (Those who even knew it.) Last weekend the NorthBritLab canvasser who came by our place unselfconsciously handed out an anti-SNP “save the pound” leaflet by Tory front SiU. The Red Tories entered a Faustian bargain with BT and at some election soon Auld Nick is coming to reclaim the soul they so readily signed away.

    155. Dr Jim says:

      The Irish Times is reporting a border poll is now inevitable and even the Loyalists have accepted it will happen

      Well we knew that when Johnson backed down on the EU deal, Norn Ireland costs the UK money, but it’ll work out well for the Irish in the end

    156. dadsarmy says:

      There is a problem that people are afraid now to speak out against any Jew, for any reason, but it does seem other Jewish groups aren’t happy with him.

      On the other hand it could be said the Catholics started it by effectively saying “don’t vote Tory”.

      As a general rule religion and politics don’t mix well.

    157. chicmac says:

      There are several countries which allow for a system known as ‘Direct Democracy’.

      In that system, a referendum on any issue can be compelled by a percentage of the electorate voting for it in a petition.
      The usual required percentage to invoke the referendum is somewhere around 5 or 10% of the electorate.

      It would, of course be ridiculous to have a figure of 50% since those who wish to see the measure raised by the referendum invoked would be voting to have the referendum and then voting for it again in the referendum That is, more than half the voting electorate would have voted twice for the measure before it was invoked.

      A meaningless exercise because time and money could have been spared by simply adopting the measure on the first vote and dispensing with the referendum.

      In the case of a Scottish independence referendum, they are treating the support for the SNP at the GE as nothing more than a petition for an indyref2 but one in which more than 50% of the vote is the qualifying bar for that referendum.

      How ludicrous is that? Especially when it is a known fact that significant pro-indy support exists among supporters of other parties.

      It should also be pointed out that they ‘agreed’ to ‘allow’ an indyref1 when support for indy was only 30%ish as indicated in polls.

      To put things in context. In the ‘totalitarian, anti-democratic’ and ‘evil’ Eastern Bloc they had a Direct Democracy principal. In Ukraine, from memory, the petition threshold was around 300,000. A Ukraine indy ref was run and Boris (sic) Yeltsin was presented with the result and accepted it and Ukraine became an independent country.

      Surely the mother of democracies can do better than the old evil Empire.

    158. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 00:58,

      I wish the Irish well, but I just hope that we have our poll before they have theirs. Firstly to show better strength of purpose, and secondly to avoid the worst electoral consequences here of reunification there.

    159. Dr Jim says:

      Once the *football supporters* digest the fact that players coming in from abroad will be the decision of the English FA over Scotlands SFA because the quotas for players are going to be centralised in England under one body then wait and see them get the hump

      They won’t like England being in charge then

    160. chicmac says:

      Dr Jim,
      I’m amazed that Brexit ramifications around ‘Bosman ruling no more’ have not percolated to the surface of the football ‘intelligensia’ yet.

    161. twathater says:

      RJS @ 1.20 am I agree with your assessment it is IMPERATIVE that Scotland is free of the yoonion before a border poll takes place , anyone who thinks this would not severely harm our independence goal has not seriously taken cognizance of the sectarianism within the central belt and the upsurge in OO marches throughout Scotland , and don’t believe for a nanosecond that our imperial bastards (sorry) masters would not capitalise and manipulate that very circumstance

    162. dadsarmy says:

      Anyways, now my vote for the SNP IS in the post I can go back to thinking like young Giles in that Giles cartoon:

      “If I was old enough to vote, I wouldn’t vote for anyone old enough to vote.”


    163. Dr Jim says:

      Yoonworld is very desperate now Sky news is now claiming Nicola Sturgeon is lying about the UK thieving Scottish assets, they say it used to be true but it’s not any more and Scotland couldn’t have had the same money as Norway because the oil price dropped

      I’m quite sure the price dropped in Norway too but they’re alright, maybe differing oil prices are selective in the countries it affects eh, so ten years ago Scotland had lots of money to steal but we don’t have it anymore so that’s that

      Yoonworld news is definitely panicking that Corbyn might do well or they wouldn’t be inventing themselves as *fact checkers* a thing they never indulged in to this degree ever before because they never bothered their shirt with Scotland now all of a sudden we’re very important, particularly calling certain politicians liars but not others, when I say others I mean Johnson who they seem to laugh and shrug because it’s just jokey Boris

      There’s a deep determination to make sure the SNP fail so that Corbyn gets no help and Scotland doesn’t leave the Union

      There’s definite trouble brewing from the result of this election, I’ll be going round the pub having a look for Murphy the spy tomorrow

    164. Kangaroo says:

      Good Friday Agreement
      Get your pdf copy here

      Hopefully the link works else just google “Good Friday Agreement 1998 pdf”

      Section 1 on Polls

      Summary a poll can be conducted when the Secretafy of State determines that there is sufficient support…
      A new poll cannot be conducted within 7 years of a previous poll.

      I believe that this is, what was at the time, referred to as a “political generation”

      National Health Service and Trade deals

      Everything is up for grabs. Patents to be extended and drug prices to be increased 4 fold, example given in article.

      This is indyref dynamite and we need to archive this story. Pretty please can somebody do this before it gets erased.


      Tories lead has steadily reduced in the last few weeks. This is significant as some polling companies have tried to use a more accurate methodology to reflect that the Brexit party is no longer standing in Tory seats and that they are looking at poll results from individual constituencies.
      Tory lead now only at 34 previously 80 then 78 then 60 as I recollect. This recent tumble could continue given the upsurge in voter registrations.

    165. dadsarmy says:

      Just reading this page, and this offends me as the last line and a half are political in their very nature:

      The tradition that does seem to have been lost is that Speakers often step down just before a general election and let the new parliament choose their successor. This was done by both George Thomas (in 1983) and Bernard Weatherhill (in 1992). That is probably a good tradition as it lets voters in all seats choose between the major parties and avoids voters in any single seat being effectively disenfranchised. John Bercow chose not to follow that tradition, resulting in a likely uncontested election in the marginal seat of Chorley, which deprives voters there of a say. That’s not the best example of democracy in action.

      “which deprives voters there of a say. That’s not the best example of democracy in action”

      Isn’t it the Tories who really disliked Bercow? Which could indidcate those behing electoral calculus have a Tory bias. Even if it is a fair comment!

      Just a thought. Anyway, I’d not write off Corbyn yet.

    166. Kangaroo says:

      An excellent analysis of Brexit so far (two Keepers for the future indyref2)
      EU law expert Professor Michael Dougan of Liverpool Uni

      Also on the same theme Sir Ivan Rogers (ex Senior UK Civil Servant)

    167. mike cassidy says:

      Courtesy of WOS twitter

      The great political insight of the Better Together campaign.

    168. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The answer to this football quotas issue, which has suddenly arisen is simple. All it needs is for the SFA to implement “the three foreigners rule,@ and limit a team to only being able to field three non-Scots in any domestic game.

      They always insisted (wrongly) this rule could not be implemented whiile we were inside the EU. This was mince, because the English RFU has a rule which states 70% of a match-day squad had to be “England-qualified.”

      As for thinking the English FA will have jurisdiction. I am pretty certain there are FIFA rules in place which determine that a player from outside the EU had to have played in a certain percentage of his countries’ recent internationals before he could play in the EU.

      If that now filters down to the UK, it will limit who the big clubs can recruit. And, in any case, the big names will still generally go to England (until the English economy crashes) – which will mean the less-good, displaced English players will still come up here. It will make little difference to the game in Scotland. Domestically, our game will still be shite.

    169. call me dave says:


      ‘Scottish’ Labour just removed their candidate in Falkirk.
      Auntie wie a kilt tells us.

      On my tablet can’t archive.

      I see a pattern forming!

    170. Old Pete says:

      Why is the Tory vote holding up so well in Scotland ?
      I understand the white settlers from down south vote Tory in huge numbers and the fanatics who are loyalists are solid Tories but all the rest ? Are they so greedy so selfish or just thick and stupid ? Most are probably the later.
      If you want Scottish Independence the only party you can vote for at this election is SNP a vote for any, any other party is a concise decision to vote against your country its people and its future.

    171. Ottomanboi says:

      Kick Unionism out of Scotland.
      This is a unique case where ‘one party state’ is highly desirable.

    172. call me dave

      Same thing happened yesterday with a tory candidate in Edinburgh ?
      seems that they will still be on the list for the actual vote as it is too late to remove them – I guess if the party wins that seat then they would have to ‘insert’ a new candidate or possibly hold a by-election??? anyone know what the protocol is?

    173. galamcennalath says:

      Old Pete says:

      Why is the Tory vote holding up so well in Scotland ?

      Elections, Tory vote
      2010 16.7%
      2011 13.9%
      2015 14.9%
      2016 22.0%
      2017 28.6%

      Their increase in popularity occurred when it became clear that Indy was still on the agenda, IMO.

      I suspect the traditional hardcore (white settler, loyalist, nostalgic vote) amounts to about 15%.

      The BritNat establishment and their media needed to push someone/something as champion of the Union – enter media construct Davidson and her NoIndyref Party. Then the Tories got some additional NO votes, probably from Labour and LibDems.

      But why is it “holding up”? They still try to present themselves as the NoIndyref Party, however Johnson is exposing their true nature. They won’t get 28.6% this time.

    174. galamcennalath says:

      Everyone signed up to learn Gaelic, then?

    175. Gary45% says:

      After Trumpet photo shops his head on Rocky, can any of you artists stick Sniveler Johnsons head on a chicken?

    176. starlaw says:

      The sale of the NHS is now being spoken about on BBC progs. perhaps they don’t want to share the blame on this by their covering up for the Tories and burying bad news. This has some way to run yet would be good if we could get some costs of medication in the USA eg. Ive been told that the blue Ventolin asthma inhaler cost $68 in the States. If this is so what price are other common medicines ?

    177. Stuart MacKay says:

      galamcennalath @10:44am

      Could the vote simply be polarising into pro-independence (SNP) and pro-union (Conservatives) camps with Labour, LibDems and the Greens being squeezed in the process?

      If it is the Conservative vote will hold up as people willfully ignore or simply don’t understand the consequences.

    178. callmedave says:

      Wonder how the 16,000 LAB voters will split now that their candidate has been hooked.

      Seems a straight fight between the SNP- 20952 votes and the
      CONS- 14088 votes

      figures from GE in 2017. Link supplied but only if you have to.

    179. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Gary45%.

      From David Braidwood’s Facebook page:-

    180. manandboy says:


      In Scotland there is very little Anti-Tory feeling among Labour voters.
      It has been like this since the Tory-Labour-LibDem Alliance was formed in 2012 in a hate-SNP, hate-independence campaign.

      Labour in Scotland have taken on the mantle of Tory treachery, as have the LibDems.

    181. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is beyond tiresome now, and is indicative of the end of an ideological epoch, i.e. that of colonialism. Scotland’s residents deserves more control over their lives than contemporary British nationalism can accommodate. Remember, it is not posible to make effective claims to human rights, without first being recognised as possessing a leagally forecefull and defensible identity. Unfortunately, the British constitution appears unable to defend the identity and legal rights of those living in Scotland, from the cultural demands of xenaphobic, populist, English nationalism.

      Human Rights and the Excess of Identity: A Legal and Theoretical Inquiry into the Notion of Identity in Strasbourg Case Law

    182. Gary45% says:

      Brian Doonthetoon@11.31
      Cheers for that, I knew a “winger” would come up trumps, no pun intended.
      Nice One.

    183. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is serious shit folks. If Scots allow themselves to be dragged out of the EU, it confirms Scotland as legally subourdinate to England. As such, the residents of Scotland will have no legal grounds on which to make any future complaints against ill-treatment or bad governance from Westminster.


      2.2 The ethical dimension of human rights

      The very specificity of the concept of “human rights” is that they belong to the individual in his or her quality as a human being, who cannot be deprived of their substance in any circumstances; these rights are thus intrinsic to the human condition.

      The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights all give expression to this fundamental ethical basis in their first preambular paragraphs by recognizing “the inherent dignity and … the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family”.

      Here, then, is an expression of the principle of universality of rights, including the right to equal protection before the law and by the law, which, as will be seen in Chapter 13, is a fundamental principle conditioning the entire field of international human rights law….

    184. manandboy says:

      In Scotland, it’s more important to be Tory Tory, than Remain Tory, if you’re a Tory.

      Scotland is seriously disabled by political blindness.

      If every brainwashed person in Scotland had a guide-dog, no-one could possibly go anywhere on foot.

    185. Bob Mack says:

      No matter what colour of rosette is pinned on Tory, Lib Dem, or Labour, we remember that a Unionist is a Unionist.

      We fight them all.

      This is no small matter.It is against several English based partys with in house Scots for cosmetic appeal, who wish to deprive us of our choice of liberty.

      Their jobs mean more to them than somebody elses as wel! as their own freedom.

      Self deluding that you are a friend rather than a servant of a powerful master is the very fabric of Empire

      Fair enough, but we have gathered strength and numbers. The situation will turn eventually, just as in Ireland where practical reasons to unite such as Nationalist population growth supercede any other factors.

      Like Canute they will try to hold back the tide, which wil! swallow them eventually.

    186. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the way the Tories and Labour are politicising apparent problems in the SNHS.

      It seems to me, there might be a case for a clean-out of top officials in some of our Health Boards, but, to try to make it all the fault of the Health Secretary and the Scottish Government is hypocrycy of the highest-order.

      If he could speak Braid Scots, I would love to hear small Dick Leotard reciting Holly Willie’s Prayer, he has the correct level of long-suffering angst to do it brilliantly. When he rises to speak, he is the epitome of the Unco Guid.

    187. manandboy says:

      “I now look forward to paying more attention to my South African and international businesses and to finally having the time to work with my children in the manner I had intended before my duty to Rangers put that plan on the backburner.” (Dave King, Chairman)

    188. callmedave says:

      THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 2019

      Bombshell telephone poll gives SNP mammoth 18% lead over the Tories – and puts support for independence at 50%

    189. t42 says:

      Scotland has the best health service in the UK, We won’t let Boris sell it.

    190. Jack Murphy says:

      call me dave said on this Thread at 9:46 am today:


      ‘Scottish’ Labour just removed their candidate in Falkirk.
      Auntie wie a kilt tells us.

      On my tablet can’t archive.”

      For new readers to Wings and those not up to speed on everything political here’s a snapshot of the current situation in Scotland.

      It’s from ‘Election 2019’ BBC Main on-line Site. and severely redacted by me for purposes of brevity:

      “Labour has removed one of its general election candidates over allegations that she made anti-Semitic posts on Facebook.

      Safia Ali had been due to stand for the party in the Falkirk seat in next month’s election.

      Meanwhile, the Scottish Conservatives suspended their Glasgow Central candidate, Flora Scarabello, on Wednesday after she was accused of using “anti-Muslim language”.

      Last week, the Tories also suspended their candidate for Aberdeen North, Ryan Houghton, over allegations he had made anti-Semitic, Islamophobic and homophobic comments…….”

    191. jfngw says:

      Only two weeks to go till BBC Scotland drop the hospital infection story, now on day 15 I think, it’s hard to keep up. Daily newsroom meetings must spend quite a bit of time discussing how they can spin this out for the whole election campaign.

    192. manandboy says:

      Neil Gray SNP MP, had a very small majority in GE19. So why are the Greens putting a candidate up against him in this Election.

      Greens – pretending to be friends, behaving like Unionists.

    193. manandboy says:


    194. HYUFD says:

      CallmeDave The same poll has Scots opposing indyref2 50% to 42% and the Scottish Tories on 26%?

    195. mike cassidy says:


      44 – 26 = 18

    196. Colin Alexander says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Nice to see you contributing again.

    197. Jack Murphy says:

      Socrates MacSporran said at 12:21 pm:

      ” I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the way the Tories and Labour are politicising apparent problems in the SNHS.

      It seems to me, there might be a case for a clean-out of top officials in some of our Health Boards, but, to try to make it all the fault of the Health Secretary and the Scottish Government is hypocrycy of the highest-order……”

      I agree.
      I view a lot of the BBC 6:30pm and 10:30pm England and London output [their versions of BBC Reporting Scotland] and rarely,if ever are hospital problems and heartbreaking personal maternity tragedies politicised and laid at the door of Matt Hancock,Secretary of State for Health and Social Care in England.

      This happens only with the BBC in Scotland!

      Here’s a BBC England on-line reporting of the heartbreaking tragedies at

      ” ‘Hundreds more cases’ in Shropshire maternity scandal “.

      By Dominic Hughes
      Health correspondent England

      This is a straightforward example of unbiased apolitical reporting.

    198. Colin Alexander says:

      Political definitions:

      Unionist: another name for a British Imperialist. Also, known as a Colonialist.

      Colonialist: someone who supports other countries, such as Scotland, being treated as a colony. In Scotland often associated with the phrases: “I’m a proud Scot but” and “I’m alright, Jack” and “GERS”

      GERS, reference to a set of financial figures that are supposed to estimate Scotland’s economy. Also, a reference to a football team whose fans are often (rightly or wrongly) considered to be supporters of the British Empire.

      The Union: a euphemism for British Imperialism where Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are treated as colonies of the British Empire.

      British Empire: Largely now a historical Empire which formerly included North American colonies and India.

      A political and economic unit headed by Emperors or Empresses. The current Empress being Queen Elizabeth II of England.

      The British Empire is based on military conquest, forced subjugation, denial of democracy and sovereignty for subjects and countries of that Empire.

      The most notable remaining victims of that Empire include Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

    199. Dr Jim says:

      The *Loyal* Labour supporters voting Tory kinda shows their *Loyalty* wasn’t really to their beloved Labour party at all, it was something else, Hmm? I wonder what it could be?

    200. manandboy says:

      For the confused, who are many.

      Scotland will spell the end of the UK as co-signatory with England of the Act of Union 1707.

      It works just like a marriage ; it takes two to make one, but only one to end it, after which there is no marriage.

      When Scotland decides for Independence, there will be no UK.
      Anything else is make-believe or propaganda.

    201. barpe says:

      I am so sick of the snivelling Greens, and their pompous wee leader.

      We must prepare now for Holyrood 2021 (because, when Boris gets back in, a 2020 indyref will look very unlikely).

      Wings must put up list candidates and hopefully then campaign to rid us of all ‘list’ Greens – they can return in an Indy Scotland – but we have to get there, first!

    202. Golfnut says:

      Candidate withdrawals seem to be a little more frequent than we perhaps would expect. Coincidence or collusion, they do have form after all.

    203. Any time a unionist says Scotland is to small to survive on its own I always answer is that why you hid the Macrone report for 30 years??? that shuts them up I wish our SNP msps would do the same on the tv when these lies are put to them don’t hold backt

    204. Marcia says:

      The favourable ratings tend to show which party has a better chance of getting the floating voters.

      Net approval ratings:
      0 Sturgeon
      -7 Rennie
      -21 Swinson
      -25 Carlaw
      -33 Leonard
      -47 Corbyn
      -52 Johnson

    205. callmedave says:


      Thanks for posting that link.

    206. manandboy says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      “I wish our SNP msps would do the same on the tv when these lies are put to them”

      I fully agree, Blair. How many times has an SNP spokesperson missed an open goal on TV, choosing instead to either say something uninteresting or saying nothing at all. It is a serious failure.

      It pains me to say it, but the SNP Communications team of speech and slogan writers have been a disappointment over the years. I can’t call to mind a single saying or slogan that was really clever. Even ‘Stronger for Scotland’ was borrowed from overseas political parties. So dull and unimaginative, and very ‘average’.
      Looks like the SNP have a dearth of creative talent in that department. They seem to be interested in other issues. A great pity.

    207. Dr Jim says:

      @Marcia 2:46pm

      They’ll need to change that title to disapproval ratings
      I always find zero rating the most peculiar, does that mean they have no opinion, or don’t care, I wonder what the question asked can be to bring forward the answer that is no answer
      The ratings for the others being minus looks like folk are saying they don’t like that person or prefer to mark them down in some way for whatever reason, do the approves and the disapproves just cancel each other out to a perfect score of zero, if so then you might say people think Nicola Sturgeon is the most middle of the road politician in the world

      I think she’s great and it’s a +yes from me
      Somebody will cancel me out in a minute

    208. Dr Jim says:

      I saw an interesting thing on the BBC talky news where they were saying that India China and America were some of the worst polluters of the planet and they had on an Indian Minister who said that yes they do but interestingly and actually per head of population India produces less CO2 than England

      The BBC news guy was irritated

    209. Terry callachan says:


      The often said idea that people only get to vote on an issue once in a generation is absolute nonsense, there is nothing whatsoever that is or will ever be tied to a once in a generation vote.
      People who continue to spout such drivel are just diabolically ridiculous.
      A vote is a democratic choice , a choice that can be made as often as a society chooses there is no limit.
      If you want a referendum every year or every two years or five years about the same thing you can do it nothing can stop a country having regular referendums about the same thing.
      General elections and council elections are held regularly nobody dares to say they will be once in a generation votes because it is just diabolically stupid to say once a generation is sufficient choice for anything.

      Scotland is still suffering Brexit even though we decided comprehensively that we want to remain in the EU.
      This general election on 12.12.2020 is about Brexit Scotland doesn’t need this GE election to help it decide if it wants Brexit its England and only England that wants and needs this GE to decide Brexit, don’t hear anyone saying NO you are not having a GE until 2054 because the last Brexit referendum was a once in a generation vote to determine Brexit.

    210. Ottomanboi says:

      @manandboy 3:11
      The SNP is rather shy of attacking unionists and unionism and calling the thing by its true name.
      It may be the generation of the leadership and the desire to be above ‘that sort of thing’ but getting the boot in to the self-serving crew whose precursors sold Scotland into colonial dependency would resonate with many. It is possible to be too subtle.

    211. Terry callachan says:

      Robert j Sutherland 1251hrs 27th

      “you just don’t get it”

      ROBERT…saying that to someone who is expressing their opinion just shows you to be short on ability to accept that there are opinions other than your own .

    212. Liz g says:

      Terry Callahan @ 3.44
      Not forgetting that the Fixed Term Parliament Act,is supposed to allow for an General Election every 5 year’s!
      An Act debated on in both the Westminster Chambers and signed off by Auld Lizzie Windsor.
      Which is a wee bit more of an assurance than a line in a prospectus or a comment on T.V.
      Westminster is on it’s 3’rd General Election in 4 year’s??
      The British Nationalist Politicians are no in any position to comment on timings,it would be mair in their line to get their own house in order…..

    213. Terry callachan says:

      HYUFD…your post at 1.36pm said

      allmeDave The same poll has Scots opposing indyref2 50% to 42% and the Scottish Tories on 26%

    214. Terry callachan says:

      HYUFD…your post at 1.36pm said

      allmeDave The same poll has Scots opposing indyref2 50% to 42% and the Scottish Tories on 26% “”

      Are you a Scot?

    215. kapelmeister says:

      In Switzerland citizens can propose a constitutional amendment. If 100 000 citizens add their names to the proposal within 18 months then a referendum is held. And the executive can’t prevent it going ahead.

      Contrast that with Britnat bullying and bluster to try and create an atmosphere against an already mandated indyref2.

    216. manandboy says:

      I phone a tradesman to do a job on my property, but soon discover he is untruthful about his estimates and prices, and because of the considerable sums involved, I decide not to go ahead and get someone trustworthy. All very sensible, with family and friends agreeing I did the right thing.

      But when we turn to Boris Johnson PM, the above approach is ditched. Possibly the biggest liar in English political history, and the latest polls say the Tories will win by a distance, with Boris ‘Liar’ Johnson as PM for the next 5 years.

      Why the difference between the tradesman and the Prime Minister.

      Is ‘tribalism’ so strong in England, that the requirement of personal integrity in politicians has been utterly dispensed with, and that it is now accepted that lying, cheating, and corruption of every conceivable kind is to be considered ok.

      But not for the general public. Not for the voters. Not for tradesmen.

      Is this what leaving the EU ‘at any price’ includes.

      This has always been known as ‘selling your soul’.

      England must be in a very dark place. If so, then Scotland should stay well clear of it. And vote SNP for Independence.

      Uncharted waters indeed.

      Fools rush in, where angels fear to tread.

    217. Republicofscotland says:

      BBC lied to Labour team that Johnson was signed up to face Neil, he isn’t. The BBC only said Johnson was so that Neil’s grilling of Corbyn could go ahead.

    218. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Marcia @ 2.46pm

      Never, ever, did I imagine I would see the day when, as with the poll you so-kindly posted, Wee Willie Rennie was ranked as the best of the Unionist politicians in Scotland.

      My gob has never been as soundly smacked. Willie Rennie, the best of the bunch.

      Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what is the world coming to.

    219. Willie says:

      Just read the BBC in their piece about why the Metropolitan Police were justified in not investigating complaints about Ms Roberts being sex trafficced through London.

      Nothing to do with them they say. It’s an American matter if Epstein carries out sex trafficking in London.

      No doubt her Majesty on behalf of her child using son had a big influence in this.

      Maybe our Royal Sleaze Bag would like to reflect that child abuse on someone’s daughter is just that – abuse!

      Everyone with a conscience should remember that and play it back to these freeloading lushes who are the titular head of our country.

    220. Old Pete says:

      ‘Don’t be a Jock, be a proud Scot’ snappy slogan that.

    221. callmedave says:

      An attempt by MSP James Kelly Lab to add a turnout threshold to a referendum has failed.

      He said a referendum result should only be valid if the votes cast represent a minimum of 50% of those entitled to vote, arguing it would add democratic credibility.

      He was defeated 9 -2.

      Just a reminder about the last Labour shell game wheeze!
      Which was successful… 🙁

      The government returned to the issue of devolution in November 1977. Separate bills for Scotland and Wales were published and support from the Liberals was obtained.

      In spite of continued opposition requiring another guillotine motion, the Bills were passed.[1] During the passage of the Scotland Act 1978 through Parliament, an amendment introduced by Labour MP George Cunningham added a requirement that the bill had to be approved by 40% of the total registered electorate, as well as a simple majority (50% + 1).[2]

    222. twathater says:

      As Socrates McS alluded to upthread it would be interesting to know the make up of these various health boards and who exactly is it they are representing , previously on WOS there were many posts relating to the dynamic and memberships of these boards and if memory serves me right there were many liebour politicos who made up the core numbers , is this still the case or have they all been replaced

      And has been commented on previously who is responsible for the removal of Clerks of Works to oversee building standards , and were the 2 new hospital construction companies permitted to sign off on these buildings without SG oversight

      The constant drip feed by the biased bullshit corporation probably supplied info by the yoonunist coterie and force fed into living rooms throughout jockland must have an effect on the unwary and culpable

      The SNP SG must be ruthless and forensic in exposing any person or organisation with ANY responsibility for damaging the public’s belief in our SNHS

    223. callmedave says:

      SNP drop candidate over claims of anti-Semitism

      The SNP has dropped its candidate for a key target seat after allegations of anti-Semitism were made against him.

      Neale Hanvey is contesting the Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency, where Labour has a majority of 0.6%.

      However, the SNP has now withdrawn all support for the former councillor’s candidacy, saying he had been suspended pending disciplinary action.

      Business convener Kirsten Oswald said: “Anti-Semitism has no place in Scotland, and no place in the SNP.”

      Mr Hanvey’s name will still appear on the ballot paper, but the SNP has pulled support from his campaign

    224. Dr Jim says:

      HYFUD lives in Epping in England where he is a failed Tory politician who can’t get elected to his local council so spends his time still being loyal to the cause of English Imperialism by insisting Scotland (a country in which he does not live) remain shackled to his idea of his democracy which is England rules OK

      I believe he went to the Edinburgh festival once so that obviously gives him claim to ownership of Scotland, oh and he believes himself to be smarter than all of us Jocks which is a natural progression and trait of the less well educated

    225. Ian McCubbin says:

      The point with this is the SNP will play along and go to a UK court.
      When what any left wing government wanting to run there own country would see it is colonialism and go straight to the UN and request uniquivical recognition as new state.

    226. Colin Alexander says:

      British Empire’s Radio Scotland made me laugh:

      “We are now interrupting normal service for a political broadcast from the Conservative and Unionist Party.”

      Tory and Labour party propaganda is normal service for the British Empire’s BBC TV and radio services.

    227. Dan says:


      You bring up James “how is the oil fund to be funded” Kelly…
      …just as I was watching a German clip re. Norwegian Oil Fund.

      I wish German DW News would do a report on the UK Oil Fund…

      Probably go along the lines of “Das Government of UK ist verrückt verschwendet haben so ein oppurtinuty”.

    228. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Terry callachan @ 15:58,

      Hi, just chipping in belatedly for your tag team pal, eh? Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything, no matter how ignorant and misinformed it may be, and if they somehow feel a need to demonstrate that to the general public, that’s just fine by me.

      But when they do, I’m equally at liberty to express my opinion about that. (Goose and gander principle.) So who exactly is allergic to debate here?

      And unlike either of you, I didn’t whine, I gave full justification for mine.

    229. HandandShrimp says:

      Shame about the Kirkcaldy candidate. How hard is to vet social media before selecting a candidate. This is causing problems for every party and mucking up ballot papers all over the place. That was a winnable seat.

    230. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ian McCubbin @ 17:56,

      So in a couple of weeks’ time, against all the odds, if Corbyn and Co happen to prevail, we’ll get an immediate review of our colonial situation, will we? With all the power of the UK state in their hands, no need even to appeal to the UN. Job done, same as the Chagos islanders. Great. I can’t wait.

      Or is magic grandad not left-wing enough for you, perhaps?

    231. Merkin Scot says:

      Has the SNP just gifted Labour the Kirkcaldy seat? WTF.

    232. Republicofscotland says:

      The shameless London propaganda news outlets STV news and Reporting Scotland again for the umpteenth week in a row lead with the SNHS bad SNP government very bad.

      Meanwhile the Tory party branch office in Scotland aired their party political broadcast at 6.25pm on STV tonight.

      It was basically five minutes of ranting on about no to a second independence referendum for Scotland. The Tory lackeys in Scotland are so predictable.

    233. Pete Barton says:

      Robert Peffers, are you still ‘lurking’?

      Are you doing ok?

    234. Sinky says:

      Merkin Scot Kirkcaldy situation a farce.
      No lessons learnt from previous elections involving comments on social media. At least Indy Supporters can vote Green and activists help in North Fife.

    235. Nicola on channel 4 at 7,

      No show Boris has been replaced by a lump of ice,

      maybe Andrew Neil could do the same for BBC,

      he dosn`t let you reply to any accusations anyway so might as well have a lump of ice as Boris.

    236. Dr Jim says:

      Labour candidate in East Renfrewshire said at a hustings “Don’t vote for me Labour doesn’t deserve to win” this weeks Labour leader Robert Leopard was a tad annoyed that his candidate told the truth about the anti semitism culture that doesn’t exist but he’s sorry that it does

    237. Famous15 says:

      Democracy WTF.

      Tory election broadcat said “No more referendums”

      My ears heard”No surrender”

    238. Gfaetheblock says:


      As greens are persona non grata to many here, and labour are the SNP’s preferred partner in government who they hope to get indyref2 out of, sure the good folk of kirkcaldy that want independence need to vote labour?

    239. callmedave says:

      You can say what you like that but ‘more-or-less’ bags two goals from nowhere to take the lead.

      Q’s eleven 2 – 1 up. 🙂 Not over yet though.

      Oops! 2-2 LOL.

    240. Sinky says:

      The SNP has called for Labour’s candidate in Dundee West to be suspended after a leading anti-racism charity said he had “serious questions to answer”.

      Angela Crawley, the Nationalists’ equalities spokeswoman, echoed calls by Hope Over Hate who said Jim Malone should explain his links to several individuals who have previously been at the heart of claims relating to anti-Semitism and racism.

    241. There will be no candidates left to fight the election,

      the slightest mention or hint of a mention on social media of Israel or Jews or Palestine or Jeremy Corbyn seems to make you a potential for expulsion,

      to accuse someone of antisemitism is enough to get you accused of antisemitism,

      it`s like the witch trials of the middle ages,

      unless you join in and condemn someone you are yourself condemned

      if you drown your innocent.

    242. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      An extract from:-

      “While his name will remain on the ballot paper for the December 12 vote, Ms Oswald said the party had withdrawn all support for him.

      It is understood the party took the action after consulting representatives of the Jewish community in Scotland.

      Ms Oswald said: “Anti-Semitism has no place in Scotland and no place in the SNP.

      “All political parties have a duty to show leadership and to take tough action.

      “Neale Hanvey is no longer an SNP candidate and his membership has been suspended pending disciplinary action.

      “All support for his campaign has been withdrawn.””

      What I find a tad unsettling is that there is nothing on what he is supposed to have said – and when.

      My dictionary describes “anti-Semitic” as,

      anti-Semitic |?ant?s??m?t?k|
      hostile to or prejudiced against Jews: anti-Semitic remarks were posted on the site | a steep rise in anti-Semitic incidents worldwide.

      I find myself wondering whether his unreported uttering was actually “anti-Semitic”, ie casting aspersions on members of the Jewish religion, or were pro-Palestine, or questioning Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians.

      My above comment also goes for candidates from other parties. If we don’t know what was said, how can we form an opinion as to whether comments were anti-Semitic, or anti-the state of Israel?

    243. Dan says:

      From BBC re. SNP withdrawn support for Kirkcaldy candidate

      “It is alleged Mr Hanvey shared a post on Facebook in 2016 which included an image of billionaire George Soros as a puppet master controlling world leaders.”

      Confession time.
      I was given a box set of 4 Irish joke books as a lad in the 70s. I didn’t ask for them but possession is nine tenths of the law so that’s my political career over.

      I understand the Controversial State Broadcaster aka The BBC are to have their broadcasting license withdrawn due to allegations of historic broadcasting of perceived racist content in programs such as Till Death Do Us Part and In Sickness And In Health.

    244. Terry callachan says:

      Robert j Sutherland

      I’m glad you have come around to accepting that it’s okay for people to disagree with you

    245. manandboy says:

      “Parliamentary sovereignty is a principle of the UK constitution. It makes Parliament the supreme legal authority in the UK, which can create or end any law. Generally, the courts cannot overrule its legislation and no Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change. Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution.”

      In the UK legal system, a witness, appearing in a Court of Law, is required to either take an oath or make a solemn promise, containing these words: ” that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”

      There is an organic and symbiotic connection between Parliament and the Courts. Part of that intrinsic connection is the Prime Minister. In this case, m’Lud, one Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson MP PM, known everywhere as ‘Boris Johnson’, almost like a stage name, stands astride the entire legal structure.

      This Prime Minister is almost unique however, in that, although he is the Head of UK Government in Parliament and in the UK State, he is professionally in contempt of the court of public opinion, as well as in contempt of his moral if not legal, obligation, inside and outside of Parliament, in the exercise of the Office of Prime Minister, by consistently, frequently and persistently, acting in contempt of the requirement to tell “the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”

      The man is arguably unfit for low office, but for the Office of the UK Prime Minister, he is unarguably, not fit for purpose.

      I rest my case, m’Lud.

    246. JPJ2 says:

      I just hope this is not a case of the SNP failing to support a candidate who subsequently was proved
      to have done no wrong. I am thinking of Michelle Thomson when I say that, whose failure of the SNP to support, resulted in the loss of an Edinburgh seat to the Lib Dems (Thomson did not defend her seat).

      A lifeline may have been thrown to the Labour Party in Scotland, so I truly hope that the suspension of the SNP candidate is justified once the full facts are known. If the SNP do not have incontrovertible evidence of anti Semitic behaviour, then this may be a knee jerk overreaction.

    247. Sinky says:

      Rightly so, the SNP applies higher standards than the Unionist parties.

      However not seeing the offending Facebook like we don’t know if there was any Jewish references to George Soros as his religion is irrelevant to his position of influence in the capitalist system.

    248. Gary45% says:

      One of the biggest threats of human extinction are the Palestinians, and the land that is Palestine. (Each day more Palestinian land is illegally stolen, and the West do nothing.)
      Zionist Israel do not want a two state solution they are on record saying so.
      What has come to pass is the slightest show of support for a people who are victims of genocide, apartheid and being treated worse than cockroaches by a so called democratic nation (Israel), you are now deemed Anti Semitic.
      The irony is Palestinians are Semite so to show support for the Palestinians does not make you Anti-Semitic, but the Zionist culture that is hell bent on closing down any, and I mean any criticism in their barbaric war crimes, yes they are guilty of UN war crimes but simply ignore any warnings from the UN, then play the Anti-Semitic card, and the spineless West do nothing.
      I will give the SNP my support for this election, but if they are falling into this Zionist trap, I will be finished with them.
      I have no idea what this SNP member has done, if he has for example denied the Holocaust then he has to go, but if its simple criticism of the Israeli government, the SNP need to take a look at themselves.

    249. Col.Blimp IV says:

      This antisemitism bandwaggon is getting out of hand.

      I seriously doubt that a single one of the candidates who have been blackballed over this issue actually suggested any kind of discrimination against or advocated that any kind of physical or psychological harm be met out to Jews.

      In my own experience, Blacks, Catholics, Blue-noses, The English, Tories, Unionists(Scottish), Unionists(N.I.), Americans, Arabs, Gingers, Baldies, Fat People, Junkies, The Police, Trafic Wardens and others too numerous to mention, have all been the subject intemperate bigoted abuse at a frequency between 10 and 100 times more than I have ever heard directed against Jews.

      No doubt to openly ponder on who may be orchestrating all this nonsense will put you firmly in the sights of the self-righteous torch and pitchfork bearing dupes.

    250. ElGordo says:

      Regardless of the GE, there is a vote next week that is could be even more important.

      Can i please plead with everyone to keep their focus on IACGMOOH elimination voting, which will most likely begin next week.

      You can download the voting app to vote in Apple or Google Play.

      We need to help end this obsession that has destroyed WOS.

      We need to come together to try and get Caitlyn Jenner voted off.

      I think that it is only then that oor Stu, the man with his finger on his pulse, will ever leave his bedroom (discarding his lbd) and begin assessing the rest of the world, that exists, out there again.

    251. Defo says:

      The ‘independent ‘ bit of the IFS actually stands for independent to promote the same interests, coincidentally obviously, as the multicoloured English Tory, of the establishment, at the expense of all else.
      You don’t think they leave stuff like that to chance?
      A two minute swatch through their ‘history ‘ might help!

    252. manandboy says:

      British Politics : to sum up,

      “Clive Lewis, the shadow Treasury minister, said: “Boris Johnson is a coward and a bully. He thinks he is born to rule and is so used to getting his own way that he turns nasty when anyone dares challenge him. Britain deserves a prime minister that has enough of a backbone to face up to scrutiny.”
      (The Guardian online)

    253. TJenny says:

      ElGordo – apparently there is no mention of the GRA in the SNP’s manifesto. Maybe they’ve been listening, and/or reading. 😉

    254. manandboy says:

      ElGordo. Alcohol, and or, other mind-altering drugs, come to mind.

    255. ElGordo says:

      You can think they are minding you initially, then you mind to get them, then you mind when you can’t, then your mind is not your own.

      Seriously tho, lets get voting, double whammy now with the rangers topping their group and qualifying.

      It could all be too much.

      Intervention required.

    256. Col.Blimp IV says:


      One of the victims of this witch-hunt got the chop for saying (seven years ago), that the State of Israel was like an abused child who grew up and became an abuser.

      Fair comment? – most certainly.

      Best analogy ever – quite possibly.

      But somehow in these Orwellian times, her statement is deemed to be a pack of lies and an incitement to racial hatred.

      Martin Niemöller’s poem “First they came…” seems to have become particularly relevant to the present day, though it is still unclear just exactly who “they” are.

    257. manandboy says:

      News & Current Affairs are currently spiralling out of control across State Media. With two weeks remaining, where will it end.
      Vanity of vanities. Or should that be vanity of insanities.

    258. ElGordo says:

      Yep, I remember we used to come here for the fallacies to be exposed.

      Alas, the strongest emotion of all.

    259. Dr Jim says:

      I guess at one time or another everybody has said something they thought was innocuous and still do, but if you’re standing for political office these days the media will hammer the party you’re standing for because that’s what the media do and there are always willing gossips to exaggerate every word anybody’s ever said in order to make themselves look less bad than whoever their enemy is and in Scotland it’s all Nicola Sturgeons fault even if she knows sod all about it

      Kids always blame their Mammy for no sortin stuff

    260. manandboy says:

      England is become a country without love.

      Seemingly determined to exclude everyone in sight.

      In a mad rush to the money.

    261. call me dave says:


      Boris brazenly avoiding his BBC interview snubbing them with a cumming smile, effortlessly brushing off a ‘your chicken’ allegation, filling the dead air ways with a meaningless word salad of nonsense and nonchalantly strolling off untouchable over the horizon to the cheers of his leavers. FGS! 🙁

      Also Channel 4 threatened by the Tories with a review of their broadcasting license because they showed an ice sculpture of the buffoon when he never turned up for a debate.

      Doing a Theresa but hiding in plain view the Mountebank!

    262. Simon Curran says:

      It would be really useful if someone can clear up whether there is any longer any distinction between anti Semitism and criticism of the state of Israel. The former is always wrong but so is censorship of the latter.

    263. crazycat says:

      @ TJenny at 9.14

      It’s also potentially because the matter is devolved and therefore nothing to do with this election.I wish I thought they had been listening; comments about the forthcoming “consultation” suggest otherwise.

      Despite that, I will be pleased if they make a point of sticking to Westminster issues, and highlighting media/political rivals’ attempts to confuse.

    264. Liz g says:

      Call me Dave @ 10.15
      Having just seen the debate,I would say it was a much better conversation without Johnston’s tiresome half sentences and quarter words intruding into the discourse.
      Although, I must admit Nicola’s side eye to Swinsons Windy Miller Windmill ( yes I’m showing my age,but I remember it only from me pram, honest 🙂 ) impersonation was priceless… LOL..

    265. Simon Curran says:

      If Neale Hanvey pictured the post of George Soros as reported it was an error of judgment, whether he realised it was anti-Semitic only he will know.
      On a broader point it would be really useful if someone could tell us whether there is any longer any distinction between anti-Semitism and criticism of some actions of the Israeli state. The former is always wrong and so is censorship of the latter.

    266. Gfaetheblock says:

      Harvey’s statement admitting to the anti-Semitic trope that he posted and other unpleasant comment. The replies make for some grim reading

    267. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Terry callachan @ 19:42,

      I’m glad you’re glad, but I didn’t “come round” to anything, and certainly not on account of you and your whiny little strop.

    268. Kangaroo says:

      Tory lead now only 12 steadily dropping

    269. dadsarmy says:

      It is understood Mr Hanvey previously promoted a website article featuring a cartoon of the Jewish billionaire George Soros as a puppet-master, a classic anti-Semitic trope.

      from the Herald. Don’t ask me.

    270. Defo says:

      I suppose that when ‘your’ state is formed mainly on the premise of ancient history and anti-semitism, using that worn tale of woe as your main defensive offensive strategy is almost default.
      The downside of this strategy, hindered by the internet, is that it’s time limited.
      And then there’s a price to pay, the circle’s complete.

    271. Breeks says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:
      28 November, 2019 at 8:53 pm
      This antisemitism bandwaggon is getting out of hand…

      Call me crazy, but something about it stinks. It stinks like a Brexit Contingency Plan being forced on the public agenda because the mind numbing incompetence of the Tories is making such a withering disaster of Brexit, that the Tory Government cannot be trusted with anything which even resembles a level playing field; the game has to be rigged, and any effective threat to Brexit has to be destroyed by scurrilous rumour and orchestrated smears and innuendo.

      Whether there is, or is not, a substantive issue of anti Semitism with the Labour Party, even if the worst case ramifications were true, the importance of such issues is nothing beside the geopolitical, economic, and societal ramifications of a monumentally stupid and disastrous Brexit.

      From an English perspective, and thank God we Scots have an emergency exit through Independence, but for England stuck with Labour, it seems just too incredible for words that a vitally significant initiative to save the UK from disaster would be derailed by a largely tangential issue of unproven, low grade anti Semitic ‘suspicions’.

      Far from ruling out Corbyn as a credible leader because of anti Semitism, surely, it is much more important for the UK to have Brexit redeemed by a Labour PM who might be flawed with mild anti Semitic tendencies, rather than discredit the man and squander the possibility of an alternative UK Government which might secure a much less damaging Brexit.

      Surely, the logical priority, even if Corbyn was a foaming at the mouth anti Semite, (which he is not), logic would see the lesser issue of anti Semitism put on ice to be addressed later, and the much heavier and important resolution of Brexit given more attention. It’s just a matter of proportion.

      To put it in very crude simplicity, Britain won’t be wrecked for decades because a transitional Prime Minister has troubling issues with Jews, but suffer a grievous Tory Brexit, and the UK faces ruin and disintegration which will last for several very grim decades.

      Please understand, I don’t advocate sweeping anti Semitic issues under the carpet, but merely recognise the issue can be readily shelved until the National emergency of Brexit has been resolved.

      Anti-Semitism should not be the priority it currently is. It simply doesn’t warrant the prominence or importance it’s getting, when the UK is teetering on the brink of Brexit catastrophe.

      Frankly, Jeremy Corbyn’s anti Semitic woes seem to be every bit as contrived and artificial as Scotland’s NHS crisis. It’s contrived. False. It’s a target of opportunity. The media is blowing small problems which may or may not exist, out of all proportion because the media is rotten, and has an agenda to promote, and grubby Establishment interests to look after.

    272. Nuggets O'Pish says:

      Just watched the documentary ‘The Only Game in Town 2’, about the North Ayrshire PFI scandal (youtube). Towards the end, an unexpected but very very interesting name entered the frame. See what you think.

    273. Sandy says:


      QT; How many members of the IFS earn £80,000 & more.

      Are they turkeys voting for Xmas?

    274. Dan says:

      Pfft, anti this anti that, is this not the new divide and rule.
      As the political parties appear to have made such a complete and utter arse on the big stuff, politics in my village now appears to revolve around whether you are pro or anti-beaverist.
      The furry feckers have been shaggin like Boris on speed and there’s now a multitude of them gnawing their way through the trees that surround the village, quicker than the Scottish Government can plant them, or the big landowners with their subsidised woodchip burners can combust them.
      The burns are now all backing up with the log jam and we’ll soon be surrounded by a freshwater sea.
      It feels to me like it would have done in the last days on Easter Island, should I grab a tree to cut up for firewood to keep me warm, or should I carve a canoe out of it so I can escape the madness of the pro and anti-beaverists.
      In an attempt to keep the beaver numbers in check earlier, I offended the pro beaverists by suggesting we have one roasted on the village green for a community event when the crimbo tree lights get switched on.
      A plan I feel may actual happen anyways as there’s so few trees left there’s every chance the beavers will go for the crimbo tree and electrocute themselves on the crimbo light wiring…

    275. I wonder when God will have had enough with the human race,

      canny be long now,

      it will end in farce,

      Joe Swindon pushing the nuclear button accidentally during a photo shoot,

      time traveler Charlton Heston comes across the picture,

      “You blew it up Joe! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!”

    276. TJenny says:

      crazycat – from WOS tl via Morag, ‘It was in the (SNP) 2017 manifesto. And the recent EU manifesto. Which suggests a deliberate omission.’ I’m still gonna vote SNP anyway as all the other parties are on board with it, and in fact, the Greens will expel you as a member if you’re not totally onboard with the TRAW or try to speak out agait it.

    277. Capella says:

      AFAIK – The GRA 2004 and the Equality Act 2010 are Westminster Acts which were adopted into the Scottish Government through the Sewell Convention. When the Scottish Government was planning to reform the GRA, Westminster was also consulting about reform. Liz Truss has since cancelled any further consultation at Westminster. Maybe that makes it a dead duck here too?

    278. Arthur Thomson says:

      Saddened by the events in Fife.

      The apology by the candidate was dignified and appropriate. His suspension by the SNP is inevitable and sad.

    279. crazycat says:

      @ TJenny

      Fair enough; I will also be voting SNP, but I’m hoping to get a chance to respond to the consultation. I responded to the first one, before it was clear to me what was going on; I was far too accommodating. I won’t make that mistake again.

    280. boris says:

      The indignities inflicted by Walpole’s Whigs drove some Scots to seek the overturn the British and to invite the return of the Stuart’s to Scotland, but people in the Central belt and lowland parts of the country preferred to remain with the Union hoping for the removal of Walpole’s Whigs and a return to the ideals of the Acts of Union.

      Wishful thinking indeed!!!

    281. Dr Jim says:

      Boris Johnson says he *will resist* demands for Scottish Independence
      A couple of weeks ago it was never no way ever
      Then it became maybe in 40 years once he’s impoverished Scotland
      Now he’s *resisting*
      In about three weeks time he’ll be saying I will comply with the courts ruling but I’ll still send a gunboat

    282. Liz g says:

      Aw good grief….
      The Catholic Protestant thing must no be working any more!
      Noo, it’s another divide and conquer shit show.
      Apparently there just enough of the religions of “peace and love” to make the poor hate each other left.
      Its a crock of shit….
      We need to respect nothing!
      Give the full force of the law to HUMAN rights.
      No advantage to any creed.
      No disadvantage to any creed.
      No compunction to a creed.
      No exceptions.
      Then we might get the politicians to stop trying to distract us with threats to in groups and out groups and have them do their actual fucking job, of managing our resources for our benefit and in the protection of Everyone ?

    283. Iain More says:

      In relation to Kirkaldy. When are the SNP going to grow a fucking spine?

    284. Sandy says:

      So any parliamentary candidate making any slightly anti-sematic remark is immediately suspended.
      Wouldn’t it be more ethical that any candidate shown to be blatantly lying be given the immediate ‘he-ho’. Should he/she slip through the net & be elected, be subsequently charged with sedition & sentenced to an appropriate term of imprisonment of, perhaps, 15 years semi-hard labour, hard labour having been removed from the statute book some time ago.

    285. Famous15 says:

      Soros uses his wealth to manipulate the world. My world.

      So he is jewish. Who cares?

      What has that to do with me disliking one rich man manipulating the world. My world!

      We must stop this nonsense.

    286. ScottieDog says:


      I have to plead ignorance here. My knowledge of soros was his successful speculative attack on the fixed exchange rate between sterling and the DM in 1992. I hadn’t even spared a thought about his religion.
      Politics is a minefield.

      All I know is that the most vile, least politically correct party are gong to have a majority in WM whilst the others ‘do the right thing’.

      God help us.

    287. Iain More says:

      In addition to my earlier post. If the Jews in Scotland are loyal to an occupation force i.e The British State or to the State of Israel then why don’t they fuck off out of my country because they arent fuckin welcome here any longer in my eyes.

      Oh and I have no time for any Judaeo Christian God – they can all fuck off since the adherents of such a tyrant seem to have no loyalty to Scotland whatsoever. Fuck off yah psychopathic religious bigots.

    288. Tam the Bam. says:

      Look…its dead simple.

      If you want to see our nation progress (and it wont be simple joy-ride) you HAVE TO vote SNP.

    289. Willie says:

      I reject entirely sectarianism and racism. There is no place for it.

      However the faux outrage by certain minorities at the slightest of imagined sleight is testing my commitment to equality.

      The rabbi who spoke for not just one or two Jews but all and every Jew in his attack on the Labour Party came across as nothing less than a bitter rabid Conservative supporter. Additionally, in the case of George Soros, one of the richest capatlists in the world, the idea of portraying him as a puppet master as being anti Semitic is outrageous.

      Sorry to say it but if these are the outrages of which our Jewish community howl then it is time we rid rid ourselves of such divisive scum. Portraying Soros as a puppet master is no more racist than portraying Boris Johnson as a right wing toff.

      So let me be clear. I am outraged at these people. As their chief rabbi has shown they are bitter and partisan. Their homeland is bitter and partisan. Zionism is bitter and partisan. In Scotland we have enough problems with our own indigenous sectarian bigots and we don’t need any more.

      If they find things so bad, and as a previous commentator said, why don’t they fuck off.

      Of course not all Jews are bigots, just like not all Scots are not bigots. High time therefore that they stood up and said so before they all get tarred with the same brush.

    290. Willie says:

      And yes, the SNP hieratchy have made a huge mistake here.

      Trading off the loss of an MP at a time like this when every SNP MP, , every SNP vote counts is insanity. With no SNP candidate in Kirkcaldy the unionist parties will be laughing. Kirkcaldy was a winnable seat and now we have to face the loss of an MP and the vote attaching in that constituency.

      The Labour and Tory deselections were not equal. This has certainly coloured my view of the Jewish community who clearly live separate lives in our community.

      Apart and not part, one can now begin to see why they have so often been resented.

      As for Soros, I didn’t even realise he was a Jew. I thought he was a Greek American.

    291. dadsarmy says:

      Okey-doke, I just searched for – george soros puppeteer cartoon – and found this, the cartoon and an explanation:

      and from another “Jewish lens for news” there’s this:

      The Rothschilds often appear in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, which have them running a secretive international Jewish cabal that controls the world.

      I do remember that vaguely from years ago. Decades ago!

      So that’s the background, amd I have to admit I have no opinion. Well, not one that could be done in a few lines without going into great depth about the Cold War and spheres of influence and blah blah blahtitty blah.

    292. Sandy says:

      I understand that if a Jew marries out-with his/her faith they are deeply frowned upon.
      On saying that & I don’t know if I am correct in that it is still the norm, but if a Catholic marries out-with their faith, the nearest priest is calling to persuade that any issue be brought up Catholic.
      I am not a hugely dogmatic person, in fact I could be described as agnostic, but to me if these instances do still exist & are insisted upon, the future is going to be difficult to change.

    293. Gary45% says:

      Happy International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People. (UN)

      Don’t worry you can’t be accused of Anti Semitism by showing support, but then again???

    294. Joe says:

      @ Gary45%

      Ill give you something that will get that label – the Bolsheviks were financed and chiefly led by communist jews. Their track record of torture, murder and oppression is beaten only by Mao. Millions died because of them. Thats not something Hollywood will ever produce a movie about though

    295. Joe says:

      Heres something by our British ‘Hero’ on the matter from the early 20’s

    296. Joe says:

      Whats particularly illuminating is the date of the article and the section on International Jews.

      Read that. Think the reaction by the Germans before WWII. Consider today and the push for open borders and consider the role of the EU.

    297. Joe says:

      This is a retyped copy of the full article ive found. The archived one is clipped.

    298. Gary45% says:

      I am in my late 50s and cannot remember a GE that has been dominated by constant Anti Semitism in the media.
      Is it because Corbyn has said he recognises the State of Palestine?
      Something is not right.

    299. ScottieDog says:

      This is the chosen smear tactic to destroy Corbyn (sadly also amongst his own party – the blairites abhor him)
      Had it been a Tory v blairite labour election (2 cheeks of the same neoliberal arse) it would have been more media balanced.

    300. A.Bruce says:

      Hanvey should have known better. It places him inconveniently in the company of fascists such as Orban of Hungary and others in the far right who hate Soros with a passion.

    301. manandboy says:

      Is it not remarkable how, in the UK, the issue of anti-semitism is treated, in a very different way to anti-Catholicism.

      I cannot imagine any candidate in a Scottish or NI election being de-selected because of instances of anti-Catholicism.

    302. Sinky says:

      Latest opinion polls have spooked The Herald with yoons completely dominating letters pages and Tory oil mogul Sir Ian Wood now backing Brexit

    303. starlaw says:

      Just a word before I go shopping. Channel four last night, Should have replaced Boris with an inflatable Mr Blobby.

    304. Ottomanboi says:

      Thought this site was about Scottish independence not a spot to air views on Jews, Soros or the alleged evils of other people’s religio-philosophical worldview.
      We do need to stay focussed, the system employs enough diversionary tactics.

    305. Socrates MacSporran says:

      You have got to admire how two-faced the London media can be.

      Reviewing last night’s Channel 4 debate on climate change, they insist Nicola Sturgeon’s weak point was North Sea Oil and Gas – you know that stuff which comes from ex-regio (or whatever the word is) places, and for which only 8.7% of the benefits go to Scotlandl.

      It wasn’t an issue for the leaders of the parties who get the benefits from the the other 91.3% of the oil income.

    306. manandboy says:

      FWIW. Brexit and Scottish Independence have given a high profile to the term ‘British’. As in British-exit.

      From the days of ‘British European Airways’, to ‘I’m British – I just happen to live in Scotland’, being ‘British’ is obviously a very big deal to a lot of people. And this understanding of being ‘British’ seems to have only one meaning. There is only one ‘British’. Or is there.

      When Sammy Wilson MP DUP says he is British, is that the same thing as Boris Johnson PM saying he is British. I would suggest that in a society defined still by Class, your social and economic class defines what class of British you are. Sammy will bristle with defiance at this idea, but in England, he is not as British as he thinks he is. But then, even Sammy Wilson and the DUP must now be reviewing their British status in the light of the most recent statements by HMG on the Backstop.

      Similarly, anyone born in Scotland who thinks they are British first and foremost, and equal to the English British, should reconsider their beliefs in that regard. In England, not only is Scotland an Imperial afterthought, but the BritNats in Scotland are an irrelevance. Think of Willie Rennie MSP LibDem and you’ll get the idea.

      So, L&G, is it perhaps appropriate for the times we’re living through, to loosen and expand our understanding of what it means to be ‘British’. In any event, in the seemingly imminent break-up of the UK, what price ‘British’ then?

    307. Capella says:

      Accusations of anti-semiiism against Labour became rife in the 2015 election when Labour was led by Ed Miliband (of Jewish descent – remember the nasty photo of him eating a bacon sandwich, nudge nudge?).

      The cause was Labour’s decision to back the Palestinian claim to representation in the UN. The state of Israel was incandescent. Prominent British Jews such as Maureen Lipman publicly resigned their Labour membership and claimed they felt so unsafe in Britain now they might have to emigrate.

      It’s been a handy brush to tar left wing Labour leaders ever since. That the Tory Party – the TORY PARTY! – managed to pin the anti-semite slur on Jeremy Corbyn is a shocking indictment of the corrupt MSM.

      Remember the fuss when Jeremy Corbyn refused to sign up to the new definition of anti-semitism which bans criticism of the state of Israel. He eventually did bow to the pressure. The SNP signed up without delay. So, they are now obliged to remove any candidate who has declared any support for the Palestinian people. The media would have had a two week feeding frenzy if they hadn’t suspended the candidate.

      BBC Scotland is now on day 17? of Anas Sarwar’s war on the QEUH.

    308. sassenach says:

      Just caught John McDonnel on BBC morning show, laying into the BBC about allowing Johnson to avoid Neil interrogation, and pointing out the purpose of Johnson is to get past the postal vote date. Interviewer tried to get him back to Labour manifesto, but McDonnel wouldn’t until he’d said his piece.

      Placing blame firmly on BBC, so come on SNP let’s have some of that kind of thing EVERY time someone is given a BBC microphone.

    309. Capella says:

      The Canary has an article on Maureen Lipman’s campaign against the Labour Party.

    310. Jock Tamson says:

      If as claimed,Mr Hanvey was not aware of Mr Soros Jewish background then it shows a gross lack of awareness of international politics. Mr Soros is financing a campaign for liberal democracy and human rights . He is passionately pro refuge. This makes him reviled by the Putin /Orban authoritarian nexus and USA / European far right. Soros also draws hatred because he is regarded as a figure head of international capitalism and finance and vilified by the far left paranoid conspiracy theorists who peddle the same trash as poured from the Berlin sewers in the 1930s.
      Soros is a strong force for good in preventing the dark forces of human evil resurfacing in western democracies.

    311. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      The cause was Labour’s decision to back the Palestinian claim to representation in the UN. The state of Israel was incandescent.

      Yup. The state of Israel is merciless with anyone or anything criticising their policies towards Palestine.

      There isn’t no place for bigotry whether it is anti Jewish, Islamic, or Catholic.

      However, we have reached a stage where no one seems to be able to oppose Israeli state policy without being branded anti-Semitic. That’s just as wrong.

      Beware, though. BritNats want to brand the SNP and the YES movement as extremist. Our outward looking, tolerant, no ethic behaviour is our biggest asset and accordingly the BritNats will try to damage that.

      The obvious thing is for BritNats to brand us as anti-English – they and their trolls try hard.

      An alternative approach would be to try to brand us as anti-Semitic with all the fascist historical connections that brings. The BritNats would love nothing better than to label us as both fascist and anti-Semitic.

      We need to be on our guard for traps.

    312. Jock Tamson says:

      I sometimes wonder if a Corbyn victory would be the best outcome for many here. They are natural bedfellows with him. Maybe their enthusiasm for Independence would wane as they got on board the bus to the socialist nirvana. I think Corbyn and Leonard see it that way too.

    313. starlaw says:

      if you think that Israel armys treatment of the Palestinian children is not very nice. then you are anti Semitic.

    314. manandboy says:


      It’s not very often that we get to see UDA leader Jackie McDonald on our screens, and talking about Loyalist criminality and drug running no less, but we are in uncharted waters.
      Jackie was a very influential figure in the very expensive Tory/DUP/UDA Alliance created by Theresa May to shore up her Tory government, by effectively being part of said Government.

      Jackie wants to continue to be a Loyalist British person living in so un-British Northern Ireland, where they prefer to do crime and drugs ‘n all kinds of stuff in their own way with no interference from the mainland don’tcha know.

      Jackie’s nervous.

      Just like all the other Unionists.

      As the cracks get deeper, longer and wider.

    315. kapelmeister says:

      If every voter in Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath who had intended voting SNP votes instead for Scott Rutherford of the Greens then it’s just possible Labour’s Laird could be defeated by a pro-independence candidate.

      I don’t btw advocate voting Green in any other constituency, which would only help the unionists.

    316. Capella says:

      Before moving on to the next thread – Nicola interviewed on Woman’s Hour this morning:

    317. galamcennalath says:

      Jock Tamson says:

      I sometimes wonder if a Corbyn victory would be the best outcome for many here.

      There is undoubted floated vote and attitude overlap between SNP and Labour for many Scots.

      Labour has never been a friend of Scotland. It’s an illusion, a con, but many Scots still don’t see it that way.

      Polls tell us almost half of Labour voters would vote YES. Those folks separate party politics and desire for constitutional change.

      Personally, I’ve concluded that it’s best to have the Tories in power in London because that clarifies the situation here. The lines are more clearly drawn when England chooses a different path. Too many Scots ( 1 in 6 perhaps) seem still willing to give Labour yet another chance. I can’t see why.

    318. HandandShrimp says:


      The SNP were predicted to take that seat and I’m concerned that bucket loads of postal votes are already in. I think stock needs to be taken to determine what the state of play is on that front. If few postal votes are in then going green is a way ahead. If half the SNP vote is already in then voting for the candidate as an independent is an option. His apology and acceptance of responsibility were pretty fulsome.

      All the parties could face more of this sort of land mine and maybe a sub list for candidates is a way ahead. Rules made long before social media are perhaps not fit for purpose.

    319. manandboy says:

      “Personally, I’ve concluded that it’s best to have the Tories in power in London because that clarifies the situation here. The lines are more clearly drawn when England chooses a different path. Too many Scots ( 1 in 6 perhaps) seem still willing to give Labour yet another chance. I can’t see why.”

      Couldn’t agree more, galamcennalath. Though highly unlikely, a Corbyn/Labour win would see the Scottish government get lost in a Westminster jungle without paths or bearings, and would rekindle the dying embers of Labour’s fire in Scotland, now happily mostly just ashes. The Scottish government don’t seem very good at juggling with more than one or two issues.

      But you know, this GE campaign doesn’t feel like the real thing, more like a stage-managed production by the Westminster BritNat Unionist Alliance. After all, we’re only having it to solve Johnson’s Parliament problem.

      But Brexit ain’t over by any means, yet England is already in a bad way and can only get worse, and with the prospect of a bad winter creating serious problems for England’s NHS, along with the fallout from GE19, who knows what 2020 will bring.

    320. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 11:21:

      Personally, I’ve concluded that it’s best to have the Tories in power in London because that clarifies the situation here. The lines are more clearly drawn when England chooses a different path. Too many Scots […] seem still willing to give Labour yet another chance. I can’t see why.

      Likewise. It’s the increasingly-desperate triumph of hope over fear, I reckon. Unfounded fear of a new disposition that they think may have no place for them. Alas, their fondest illusions need to be smashed irretrievably before they are finally willing to confront the only viable alternative. Likewise for the LibDem dreamers who are desperately holding out for a status quo that can keep Scotland in both the UK and the EU. Not gonna happen, folks! It’s going to be one or the other, like it or not. And either we choose or BoJo chooses for us.

    321. twathater says:

      @ Gala 11.21 am I agree with you re the tories winning the GE , Scots have to suffer more of the indignities and fiscal irresponsibility of the tories policies to realise just how much devastation awaits them being tied to the engerlish UK.

      If liebour win many of us oldies have vast experience of their lies , promises and duplicity when they have power , youngish people do not have the ability to reflect on these memories they only have the promises of the nirvana to come from magic grandpa

      Please be aware youngish people and do some research , Labour are RED TORIES ) as soon as they gain power all bets are off , all promises are nullified because ( stuff ) , listen to grandparents who were told the same , or look at their history of broken promises , Glasgow equal pay dispute , house of lards and baronesses, the Mc Crone report , the VOW , federalism , the blocking of all powers in the Smith commission most importantly broadcasting , and many many more , does that sound or look like nirvana to you , don’t be fooled or taken in by their promises they LIED then and they are LYING now , VOTE SNP ONLY SO THAT THE LIARS DON’T FOOL US AGAIN

    322. Willie says:

      Just reading in the paper today that the decision by the education authority in Glasgow to allow boys to enrol at Norte Dam academy is being met by howls of anger from the Muslim community.

      With some 49% of the school roll Muslim girls, the separation of girls from the rest of the community, and indeed the polarisation of a particular religious and ethnic groups into separate communities runs absolutely counter to the concepts of social inclusion.

      The education authority are to be complemented for recognising this.. No place in our society for segregation. We have enough sectarianism and bigotry already.Apart, and not part, is what causes division. It is what causes difficulty between communities. It is what breeds resentment that can fester into hatred.

      And if a religious ethnic grouping find mainstream schooling so abhorrent then maybe they should find a society elsewhere suited to their way of life. We need less division rather than more. Bigotry is easy bred, hard eradicated. And that is not an unreasonable thing to ask.

      Well done the Glasgow Education Department for recognising this. No place for religious ethnic enclaves in our society.

    323. Joe says:

      Willie, im becoming a fan of yours

    324. Joe says:

      @ Jock Tamson

      Your post about soros is pretty laughable. Politics aside – he is known for setting up situations that have crashed the economies of smaller countries. He has arrest warrants out for him and its not becausr of ethnicity or religion. He is a total cnut and you are completely uninformed.

    325. Joe says:

      Look for the interview where he says that as a boy him and his gaurdian helped with the rounding up of people to be taken to concentration camps. No joke. He says, on camera, that this was a happy period for him. Find it.

    326. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Joe @ 00:05,

      Oh, no doubt it’s on breitbart, ultra-right lie-factory swamp which is your natural home.

    327. Only 6% between Tory and Labour,

      and Boris hasn`t been interviewed yet,

      could be a wee chance for SNP/Labour to form Government,

      unless Scottish Labour voters scupper it again and vote Tory to tactically defeat SNP MPs,

      Jeremy needs to have a very strong word in Richard whatshisface`s ear. “Don`t do a fricken Dugdale !”

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