Take my breath away
Just magnificent work from the Daily Mail today.
Really only a couple of tiny quibbles.
1. What the Mail describes as support for the Union “surging” in the latest poll is in fact the LOWEST No figure YouGov have ever recorded for the referendum question, the joint HIGHEST for Yes, and (therefore) the SMALLEST lead ever. The No camp’s lead with YouGov has been more than halved since September, from 30 points to 14.
2. The fieldwork for the poll was done on between 25-28 April. The co-ordinated media outrage over the First Minister’s comments about Vladimir Putin didn’t break until the 28th, so almost none of the poll respondents would have heard of it, making the Mail’s attempts to spin the poll as a “backlash” against the comments extra-comical.
Otherwise, bang on, chaps. Top work.
Shock horror … The Daily Mail uncovered telling a lie. Who would have believed it?
Ha Ha , short and to the point. I like it!
Daily Mail in “poor grasp of language” shocker.
As I understand it, YouGov rely on telephone canvassing too. That has never been ideal, even in the days when most people had a telephone and a number in the book. Look at today’s ‘phone book and see how many people no longer fit into that category. I suspect that the demography is somewhat skewed also. That said, the trend is what can be looked at with some degree of credibility. Onwards and upwards to YES.
If Project Fear are happy with YouGov polling then everyone in the Yes campaign should rejoice.
YouGov’s mysterious polling methodology will eventually turn unionist succor into unionist suckers.
So that confirms the referendum is all about Salmond and his vanity project, right?
Wonder if the English Daily Mail has a different lead? Time to circuate the Times “Vladimir Putin International Person of the year” ?
link to thetimes.co.uk
I take my hat off to you for trawling through this muck on a daily basis for us. I’d need counselling after a week of it.
It is like they are staffed by primary school kids that haven’t learned their sums yet. I think that infantile just about sums up the whole article.
Is it a silent T on the the end of Alan Roden?
Is it just me, or is the mail claiming that because they’ve been making a big deal out of something, they can then claim that them making a big deal out of that is news?
Seems like they’re reporting that they’re reporting something.
Department of Redundancy Department Department much?
Savaged in Holyrood? You can only laugh. Not only a “poor grasp of language” but i dont think their eyes work either.
I don’t know whether anyone has mentioned this Stuart, but I have just found out that the head of the Electoral Commissioner for Scotland is one John McCormick, former Controller of B.B.C Scotland. Apologies if I’m behind the curve on this, but surely it puts their decision to cancel the C.B.I registration into perspective.
Truth distortion extraordinaires! Wait a minute, I assume that graph wasn’t actually shown in their paper along side the article? If so then they must take their readers for even bigger muppets than I assume they must be.
So what are the numbers then?
The Daily Mail showing poor journalistic skills again, fancy that.
@ Alex Beveridge
Well spotted Alex. Looks like a tribal connection there.
Project Fear has been replaced by Project Smear. Despite claims from BT that they will be more positive, this really has moved from the gutter into the sewer.
If all this Putin nonsense had come out of the blue then it might have helped BT, but on to top of months of MSM negativity and twisted reporting? I reckon the polls will continue to close. The poll quoted here does actually show a 1% close since YouGov’s last one.
Just wait for the next couple of polls by more reliable pollsters. This is good news for the Yes side. Expect us to be creeping up to nearly 50% without the don’t knows. As for the smear campaign. Alastair Campbell has done a similar interview with Farage. Quite interesting is he working for the British State…of course he is. Unfortunatley Faragae and Salmond are poles apart when it comes to policy. Farage has more in common with Cameron and Lamont.
Alex Beveridge says:
“is one John McCormick, former Controller of B.B.C”
And yet again we see the same elite types somehow finding themselves in control of the levers of power in Scotland.
These types do not rock the boat and are well versed in ‘doing the right thing’
If they didn’t ‘do the right thing; they wouldn’t get all these positions.
Let’s get out of this stinking corrupt Union.
Jesus !!! Call Kaye is shocking this morning. She’s determined to scourge Salmond. The only good thing is, that most callers are saying he shoyldn’t apologise, and this is once again, mefia manipulation.
Mefia! Media … doing this from texting from a phone grrrrrr
Good work as ever Stu…
I, foolishly, just viewed FMQ’s via the BBC site.. Boy have they had fun editing..
None of the Putin stuff is present, and the “pen slam” has made it to the cutting room floor..
Surely the BBC, the bastion of fairness and balanced reporting can’t be on the fiddle..
hmmm, answers on a brick to UKIP’s freepost addres
LOL What an integrity free zone Roden is. What ever happened to real journalists?
It is such blatant lying I can’t actually muster the energy to get annoyed. It is on par with a 4 year old saying the cat must have eaten the chocolate in the cupboard. Still have they have to make shit up it shows that they are really scared.
Don’t forget the Daily Mail owned Mtero which this morning has a front page with Salmond ‘reeling’ over a ‘backlash’ against his ‘quip’ about Scotland being a nation of drunks!
Doh, Metro!
@JLT –
‘Mefia’…maybe you were bang-on first time.
If you can’t beat the argument, beat it’s author. Play the man, not the ball. Their tactics are as transparent as a smashed window.
O/T
Thanks mostly to Wings readers, the short film Autumn Leaves, has now reached £600 of its £1500 budget target. This short film (a drama/comedy int he best Scottish tradition) is set on the night of the referendum and features some of the biggest names in the Scottish film and TV scene. This is a story of hope over fear and thoroughly exemplifies the very essence of the entire referendum campaign in one Scottish living room.
You can read all about it here:
link to kickstarter.com
There’s a wee promo videon on the link (above) that you can watch. If the film reaches its budget target it will be made. If not, it won’t be made. It’s as simple as that. There’s also a wee possibility that it might even be shown on the telly on the night of the referendum after the polls close (a bit of light relief to break the tension). If not on the telly then we will make sure that Stu gets to premier ‘Autumn Leaves’ right here on Wings.
If we can get just another 90 people to donate a tenner we’ll be home and dry and we’ll get to see Sean Scanlon (Para Handy), Barbara Rafferty (Rab C. & Hamish MacBeth) and Carmen Pieraccini (River City) strutting their stuff.
Dig deep Wingers and help get this important wee film made.
““is one John McCormick, former Controller of B.B.C””
For goodness sake! Why is no journalist picking this stuff up? If I was a journalist I would be clapping my hands with glee at the prospect of breaking news like this! It’s an absolute disgrace.
Why does it fall onto us common folk to trawl through endless reports and documents in order to put across the truth?
Thank god for Wings, for the contributors and all you people who comment. Maybe we should get together after the referendum and start our own Scottish newspaper post referendum, one that won’t be afraid to tell the truth, reports the facts without opinion &
Spin and gives the people the news they deserve!
Alan Roden in The Mail who writes mainly diatribes rather than investigative journalism was, I think, previously local government correspondent for Edinburgh Evening News. How he must enjoy the big time running Scotland down.
Interesting report on “Scot goes Pop” about the poll. See especially the comments by Scottish_Skier on how the panel is biased towards non Scots residents.
I think we would have all been happier if Salmond had said nothing at all about Putin. I heard a piece on the radio saying that at the interview Alastair Campbell prodded him to say something nice about Cameron, Osborne and Putin and AS fell into the trap.
Telegraph says independence will see mortgage payments “soar”. With our new knowledge of the meaning of “soar”, that must mean cheaper mortgages!
link to telegraph.co.uk
Taken out of its independence debate context, it’s just the kind of story that papers love, ie politician says something not on the script, with which they then make the most outrageous hay.
However using the word ‘soars’ to describe the No vote is really funny. Funny, as in these losers know they’re losing and they’re desperate.
Anybody got their wellies on?
What about wading into the pigshit filled byre on the Daily Hiel and let them have it?
I would do it but I boak easily.
Interesting report on “Scot goes Pop” about the poll. See especially the comments by Scottish_Skier on how the panel is biased towards non Scots residents.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Sorry, missed the link.
Ach, the Putin stuff was rubbish to start with and now it’s just bloody boring. Even the BBC posted the remainder of the article for context proving that it was a qualified statement.
Didn’t stop them saying Eck refused to apologise though.
On a similar theme; seen in the Metro this morning, another gem from that GQ interview. Apparently Eck branded Scotland a ‘nation of drunks.’ But they helpfully also posted the exact quote which while, yep, he did use that phrase he didn’t brand anyone. Although, frankly, given the prevalence of alcohol usage in Scotland I wouldn’t consider the phrase ‘most of Scotland is probably bladdered right now’ (as NOT said by the First Minister) to be pretty much acceptable.
It’s a very simple football metaphor of ‘play the man, not the ball.’ The ball is something the unionists wish to avoid at all costs because they aren’t very good at playing with it. So they play the man, and think that this is a good tactic.
The polls are narrowing. Their tactics are not working.
I’d love the Daily Mosley to use the same gothic German lettering it uses in its title as the typeface in the rest of its dreadful oupourings. It would make it seem, somehow, more authentic bringing it closer to its true blood and soil roots.
JLT says
“Mefia! Media … doing this from texting from a phone grrrrrr”
We know JLT,
you meant Mafia,
wouldn’t she (aka Luca Brazzi) look good in a pair of concrete wellies being dangled from a helicopter over the forth?
Luca Brazzi.
The Daily Mail never knowingly allowing facts to get in the way of their preferred headline
I must have been watching a different FMQ yesterday cuz I could have sworn that AS disemboweled both Ruthie and JoLa and danced through their entrails on this matter. Ruth didn’t throw her pen and snarl because she scored a hit now did she
Also, what was with Wullie Rennie pulling up the Chinese? THERE WAS A CHINESE GUEST DELEGATION IN THE VIEWER’S GALLERY YOU F*CKING KNOB! *facepalm*
Rodentspeak.
Typical Call Kaye. The attack on Yes / Salmond / Indy camp has failed. ‘We’ll come back to this subject later’. Have we hell !!! Talking for the rest of the show about marriage and monogamy. Obviously, the controller must see that folk are phoning to back Salmond and condemn the media biasm.
When you’re forced to spin like this you’re in big trouble. When you’re doing well you just tell the truth.
@doug 10.12 am
Getting a mortgage from a Separate Financial Advisor should be diddle
Meanwhile, another of the daily rag’s obsessions draws ever closer, as the illogical head-in-sand campaign urges us to stay in the ukip-flavoured uk in order to stay in the eu…www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27247910
Brit media is working on the assumption that most Scottish voters are dumb.
Of course they will be ignoring the fact that they tried to get Putin to help prevent Scotland’s independence.
What if Salmond had slated Putin or Murdoch? What a huge uproar there would have been! Had he only criticised them, the cry would have gone up that he is not a Statesman, not fit to be First (or Prime) Minister.
As it was, I would say he rather damned them with faint praise. There is no way I will buy GQ, but I would like to know who he slated and who he praised to the skies.
What a bunch of hypocrites the Scottish MSM is!
Oh and this just happened to come out on the day of his speech in Bruges? IF and it is a huge IF the media was doing its job we would be discussing what he said in that speech, not this trivia.
I’d also like to have heard the Q&A as it would give me a feel for how others in the EU are positioned. But then that would mean developing my own opinion and not slavishly following the MSM rants.
One of the things that has gone wrong with our referendum is something that is unfortunately to be anticipated in politics : no matter what one party says, the others will say some contradictory to it and not build up positive actions combining alternative views. Add to that the way people support their local “team” no matter how wrong or poorly performing or behaved they are. The referendum is intended to be about the future of Scotland for all of us and not a party led issue, yet we generally find that hard to separate. And that is perhaps why so little positive is coming from the No side. It is traditional to hate the commies and love the USA’s brash freemarket style even though we don’t actually want to emulate it. The USA continues to interfere in countries around the planet, while Russia has withdrawn from that tendency dramatically under Putin’s new way of moulding his country. It has little of its former USSR bully methodology beyond its borders. Ukraine as a former contained puppet state has erupted into chaos and the first people to move in seem to be the USA with “bribe” money for a new regime to replace the one before which replaced the one before that, all in a messy string of events. Putin threatened to cut off the gas Russia supplies as he didn’t support the incoming regime. So far other than posturing that is all he has done to the Ukraine. As many other countries have done too. As for the Crimea : that has been an “independent” state, mainly of Russian origin, has been a Russian military base since the break up of the former USSR and was simply under Ukranian administration, not part of it. So when Putin takes it back, why would anyone be surprised? Putin didn’t dither. And he didn’t invade the Ukraine. He took brisk action to protect Russia’s own interests. The USA steps into many countries with its military claiming to stabilise them, but in reality choosing its own sides; often if that means actually destablising them by that intevention. And the UK tends to support them.
On the other hand, Cameron has denied Scotland the 3 option referendum we wanted included devo-max. And the UK has sided with a new Ukranian regime we know little about. And seems to have done so to keep in with the USA. The EU has of course also been vocal. Ukranians have expressed a wish to join it while accepting their membership could be dangerous for it – an unstable country with a mix of dubious politics including neo-nazis. Most of the EU don’t want Ukraine to join them.
If we step back and look at the world we see Putin doing something decisive about a problem in a previous Russian controlled state, with a large Russian speaking and orientated society.
Salmond does not see the future of Scotland as a rUK puppet state, but part of a larger political world. He is not biased because of old aliances that no longer make sense. That does not automatically mean he admires or supports any other world leader as such, but recognises specific stong points and says so.
As a Scot with a view of a future Scotland playing a leading role in the world, I am proud to have such an outspoken leader unrestrained by past prejudices.
4 minutes left …back to the phones …and selective calling. First person. Condemns Alex. Then Morag (our Morag ???) comes on and good for her …slams British media. Kaye now howling and protesting. The woman is hopeless. Good on Morag
This is very ‘old hat’ which is why I’ve restrained myself from saying it on so many previous occasions when the Mail has made one of its thousands of offerings from the sewer of lies that it operates in but; it may be worth repeating as there will be a few out there who don’t know that this is a paper that, in it’s ‘proud’ past, ran with “HURRAH FOR THE BLACKSHIRTS” and MOSELEY FOR BRITAIN. Just use this as a filter when you have the misfortune to see a copy of the Mail !
Ooh Jeremy
never had the rev take all the spaces out of a comment have you?
I crack up the idea that polls shoot up and down in the way the press often portray it. You know, one day someone is a rabid Tory unionist, then the next they’re backing the SNP and independence. A few days later and the latest smear on AS has them re-instating their Tory membership with like minds across the country doing the same, causing a huge surge for No…
UKIP winning big next month is going to be classic. There’ll be no polishing that great big steaming turd. Pro-union blind panic stations at the ready!
Incidentally, while small, the ICM poll gave a majority Yes for people who’s country of birth was outside the UK. This appears to be something of a reversal that has occurred over the last year, presumably due to remaining in the UK now looking the bigger threat to EU membership combined with the rise of anti-foreigner feeling in Britain. Nigel may well do the Yes camp a great favour as this group of immigrants comprises 7% of the Scottish population. According to ICM, they gave 2.7 points to Yes; not insignificant at all.
The irony of British nationalism promoting the end of Great Britain is not lost on me. Those damn johnny foreigners voting Yes! LOL
Kaye this morning, am I the only one who thinks Simon Pia is an utter creep?
Kaye, bias as usual, let those against A.S run, and cut supporters short. That is about her strategy, unless someone else suggests a different subject with anti A.S content. She will again let that run until point is made, then say OH, we have to get back to the subject.
BBC must have a day of reckoning for all this stuff, it is designed to steal your vote.
Why am I not surprised john Mc Cormick is a former controller of the BBC? Still leaves the questions
1. Why was the CBI allowed to withdraw?
2. Who signed the forms( I believe it asks the signatory to sign if they are the appropriate person, info given accurate etc)?
3.Why is the Electoral Commision going to publicly explain their decision as this is a referendum ‘ made in Scotland’ so surely the people in Scotland deserve some transparency even at this stage?
O/t
Don’t have time or I would check myself but did anyone else hear Simon Pia , ‘ I believe the Sun is going to come out in support of them’ mumble as he had a go at everyone on the way down or is this Simon spinning again
Sorry that should be when is the EC
John King; I’m guessing he hasn’t.
Jeremy Watson; good post, but I would correct you on one point. The Devo Max option was never really wanted on the ballot paper. The No side suggested it, the No side convinced themselves that Yes wanted it, and the No side called it a win when it wasn’t on the ballot slip.
They were wrong from start to finish. Devo Max has always been a smokescreen which never had any real chance of happening. I’m sure everyone saw how much Westminster moaned, and argued, and denied the need for the few extra devolved powers in the last Scotland Bill. Devo Max would have to be authorised by the same people; not a hope in hell of that happening.
Forget all mention of devo anything. It’s Yes, or it’s No. There is no grey area in between those.
Incidentally, I have two more confirmed Yes votes.The Lady Wife, Hayley Macbeastie, who is not really political, stated last night that she’d be voting yes; first time she’s said it. We were having a big political debate over a couple of pints; she’s not political, but she does like to challenge me to substantiate my opinions with factual information and data. Says it’ll help my campaigning. Think she’s right, too.
And Rhoda Macbeastie, my big sister, is shortly to be moving back to Scotland from France. She’s a rock solid politicised Yesser. Not sure about her husband; might have to work on him
Better tell Alex. Refer back to pre-Cameron meetings for his stance.
Chavez struggled with the same sort of onslaught from the press and media. They were determined power would stay with them. The people had their place – at the bottom of the pile.
Eventually he got so exasperated with their falsehoods and fabrications skewing the normal democratic process that he threatened all sorts of retaliation but settled for legislation.
The media owners closed ranks and doubled attacks.
Sound familiar?
Aye, after hearing AS is impressed with some aspects of the Russian president I’ve dumped all my moderate, centrist to left + liberal feelings and shall now be voting No + Tory, backing ATOS, the bedroom tax, privatisation of the NHS, tax cuts for the rich, penalisation of the poor, tuition fees, illegal wars, and full return to Westminster rule. I also no longer feel Scottish, but played land of Hope and Glory this morning loudly and it filled me with Great British pride.
That’s how it works you know!
In unionist dream-land anyway.
Looking at the press, broadcast media and FMQs anyone would think this was a concerted effort to denigrate the First Minister.
You would be forgiven for thinking that someone was organising and controlling this attack. Who might that be?
The UK Cabinet? MI5? The Home Office? Perhaps even ALL of them working together as we all know these things work Better Together.
Good post, Jeremy.
one for the No Borderers
Noo am a pairt time Reiver
ah leave the coo’s alain
wans ah pit ma wellie’s
oan the sheep head fur
hame.
Run fur the Hills, Baa Baa Baa.
Should hiv keep that backfur the night time
tae help some of you’s tae get tae sleep,
1#2#3#4#5#6#7zzzzzzzzzzz.
o/t Craig Murray reveals evidence that ‘grass roots’ old lady in NoBOrder video is not what she seems.
craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/bbc-propaganda-hits-new-all-time-low/
Hi Jeremy
Add to that the way people support their local “team” no matter how wrong or poorly performing or behaved they are.
I take issue with that remark. If applied to the march for genuine self-governance it is spurious.
Regaining Scotland’s sovereignty is paramount.
All else is subsiduary.
Solid ambition for that objective over-rides almost everything else. That doesn’t mean one can’t criticise government policy – only in the current situation it’s best to do it within the SNP, a member, not publically.
The enemies of democracy have tremendously powerful weapons at their disposal. All we have is diplomacy.
It might just be enough.
We must show we are better than them because we are better than them in honesty and integrity and in ideals. Implying we are oblivious to truth hands them ammunition.
Other than that, I agree with you about the honesty of Salmond.
Actually no you’re wrong, devo max was proposed by the Yes side but rejected by the UK government.
But back to topic, the other interesting aspect of this poll by Yougov is that the punters were asked for their views on the No scare stories, a majority in all cases didn’t believe them. Scot goes Pop has the figures on his blog if you want to check them out. The truth is this poll is a dreadful for the No side.
Proud Cybernat @ 10.03 I tried to contribute to this film a couple of days ago but the only avenue offered was via Paypal which I don’t use, are there any other methods available to make a contribution??
I signed up for You Gov polls a few months ago and on numerous occasions re questions on politics, they start off by asking how you last voted,will next vote,are you for Indy etc…Then they ask questions about how you think the gov’t are doing but you are left with the question shouting in your head ‘which gov’t?’ and the answer gets shouted at the monitor..”I ‘ve got 2 govt’s..one I agree with and the other is a pile of ****”….
Pretty obvious tactic to allow you to skewer the figures…no surprises there
Oh aye..Kaye is a twat and if we are now at the smearing stage, it looks like despo-max is now being offered as an alternative..spoilt fur choice these days!
Of course they are,X Sticks. Add in G.C.H.Q with their technical ability and you realise anyone supporting the Yes campaign can be a target for their attacks. It will continue, and get worse, as the date of the referendum gets closer, quite simply because they, the No campaign, don’t have anything to offer us, only lies and scares.
“Actually no you’re wrong, devo max was proposed by the Yes side but rejected by the UK government.”
No it wasn’t. Time and again SNP politicians said they would listen to proposals from the other parties around devo-max, that they were ‘open’ to the idea and so on, but said this in the sure and certain knowledge that nothing coherent would emerge from the Unionists.
The Yes side have never proposed devo-max.
Right guys, get this post shared far and wide on twitter, facebooks, btl comments, even your own email. This daily mail pile of lies and smear is an excellent example of how the media twist the truth to suit their own agenda (in this case a lie that we have turned on our own FM). Rev Stu’s analysis is clear and simple, the significance can be grasped instantly.
Every undecided person in Scotland needs to see this post so they know how they are being played by the media.
OK, a devo max question was proposed by the SNP. But I think you know what I mean.
So after reading the Daily Mail (any other paper as well) I am going to ditch the dream I have had for all of my a dult years and some of my childhood as well.
I may be a Scottish National Party member, but I did not swear an oath to believe every thing I am told by Alex Salmond. Strangely enough Alex and I, not that he knows, have often disagreed, and sometimes I would love to apply a gag to him, but I will defend his right to say what he wants, just as I would expect the same civility.
Now shall we discuss the anti democratic views of Better Together, they seem to have a problem with letting people speak.
President Obama and the Democrats got exact same rabid far right wing attack week after week and they won. Same daily mail style reprobates in American even tried to prove Obama wasn’t a US citizen, The Donald Trump even tried but they all lost. They were even calling a win for the GOP the day after they lost, which is no doubt what the Mail idiots will do on the 19th Sept.
“OK, a devo max question was proposed by the SNP.”
When?
The UK gov’t maybe be bigger in size but the Scottish gov’t are higher when it comes to I.Q…still think the way they cornered the No side into a single question was one of their finest hours…in it for the long run
Yet another disappointing post that attacks the messenger and ignores the message.
See
link to yourlogicalfallacyis.com
Here are the figures on the scare stories from James Kelly’s blogs. What makes these most remarkable that the poll showed a No lead so in polling companies less friendly to No you’d expect the ‘don’t believe the scares’ bit of the electorate to be much higher. What this shows is many No voters don’t believe the No campaign’s lies. That’s good for us.
‘YouGov also asked a series of supplementary questions on a range of standard scare stories about independence, and the results are nothing short of a horror show for the No campaign. By a margin of 45% to 38%, respondents think that an independent Scotland would be able to use the pound as part of a formal currency union. (Surely that doesn’t mean we think that all three London parties are fibbing?) By a comfortable margin of 46% to 34%, voters think that an independent Scotland would be able to remain a member of the EU. (Andrew Marr thinks they’re wrong, he has to say.) By a margin of 41% to 38%, they think an independent Scotland would be able to maintain state pensions at the current level, and by a margin of 43% to 40% they do not anticipate that major businesses and employers would leave Scotland after independence.’
Jeremy Watson. Please see the post by Training Day for the true position.
Salmond may have said it was an option, but I’m damn sure he never said it was a desirable outcome and he certainly did not suggest it in the first place. Apart from anything else, what is the advantage in devo max to a party leader committed to independence? Nothing. It splits the support for both sides. There are people who intend to vote no who would support devo max if it was available. There are presumably also Yes voters who would consider devo max as well. If you are the party leader of the largest party chasing independence devo max is one of the last things you would wish to see on a ballot paper.
I would just like to say that we are living in exciting times!
Jeremy Watson, thanks for that, fed-up arguing about Russia and the situation in Ukraine/Crimea with folk reading BBC, CNN, FOX etc. for their news, AKA no news!
Though if you intend to post again, which I hope you do, maybe some paragraph breaks would help?… Makes it easier to read.
@Training Day, I believe that Devo Max was suggested by some Civic Leaders and some Charities, not the SNP, and Alex said if someone would articulate what that meant he would see about having it added to the ballot. It was never on the cards with the SNP. Why on earth would you even consider having some of the most important matters handled by your neighbour such as foreign affairs and defence. It is bad enough that our young men presently are forced into fighting foreign wars but for another country, heaven preserve us.
Phil, what are you talking about?
I can see the no vote ‘likely to vote’ falling to 50% if this scare stories continues.
They are literally turning off their own supporters whilst galvanising the Yes vote even more.
More and more Yes voters who have never campaigned before are now campaigning. Those who want it bad enough will make it happen, that’s us.
The world won’t be shocked on Sept 19th because we’ll have been in the lead from July.
Half way through an emailto the Electoral Commision regarding the Vote No Borders (ahem) campaign, anyone want to advise what should be in the email,
I have this
“I trust the Scottish Electoral Commission will be taking steps to ask the Vote no Borders campaign about their involvement in the referendum campaign and have them explain how without any discernible fund raising campaign they would appear to have amassed over £150.000”
Any advice ?
Well, what can I say?
link to thepoke.co.uk
link to thepoke.co.uk
I spoke to somebody yesterday who was was on track to not vote in the Referendum.
They hadn’t seen the information they needed to convince them to vote YES.
They had been turned off from voting NO by the NO Campaign fear+love bombing.
We had a lengthy conversation. They will definitely vote now …
Mail, BBC, attack Salmond but local news like Aberdeen’s Press and Journal attacks Holyrood day after day so that the Putin thing gets sidelined a wee bit for headlines like today- “Salmond selling false promises to Scots fishers” and “Scots will pay more for loans after independence.” These are just 2 of over a dozen anti Indy things in one edition. It’s interesting how Yes is attacked daily at local and national level although vote NO or else Press and Journal have had no qualms in smearing Salmond as a threat to school children during a local election campaign last summer. Very dirty business teamGB media.
They lost that summer election too though!
Here is my tuppence worth.
link to whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com
Inside the minds of Better Together…
You’ll be out of the EU!
Hmm, that didn’t work.
There’s hardly any oil left so you can’t afford it!
Hmm, that didn’t work either. We need something more powerful.
There’ll be posts at the border!
What on earth.. that didn’t work either. We need something really scary.
You’ll not have any currency and be up to your eyeballs in debt!
Bloody hell; that’s fecking increased support for Yes. We need something really powerful and now. Something that will destroy the indy vote completely!
Alex Salmond made some comments that Vladimir Putin is impressive in some aspects and shouldn’t be underestimated.
Sorted. Right, now let’s sit back and wait for the No poll surge!
Thanks for the Craig Murray link Vronsky – tweeted that one!
@ Jeremy Watson
Couldn’t read your post; no paragraph breaks.
The function of this smear is to depress the SNP vote in the Euro elections, it’s a re-run of the tactic used pre local elections in 2012.
Great article – short and snappy with great graphics.
More stuff like this please – this is what your average Record/Mail/Sun reader is looking for, imho.
@ Jeremy Watson 10:29
Spot on.
@John King
or is it £400,000 already?
cf Craig Murray blog on which you commented earlier.
I’ve just read Craig Murray’s piece and whilst all of us on here are well aware of the duplicity of the BBC, a lot of folk will be blind to it.
Despite 2 of us in my family being committed Yes, one couldn’t care less and the OH a DK, he closes his ears when I criticise the BBC.
This means that in families where there are no yes people, they will believe everything the BBC says.
What I do think, however is that there are a large number of ‘couldn’t care less’ folk and these people will probably not vote.
What I’m still beeling about is the ease with which CBI were allowed to leave the EC and now the news that the head of the EC is ex BBC.
I now despise all media people like Esler, Call me Whatsit, Naughtie etc as they know they are lying.
O/T.
Can anyone (Rev?) enlighten me about the European Elections, links to those standing or your own views? I’ve been full time indyref and not actually thought about it until my polling card came through the door.
BTW I’ve just had a post not appear which said it was a duplicate and my details also disappeared – DOS?
Sorry ignore that – it came up later
“Michael says:
2 May, 2014 at 11:14 am
Phil, what are you talking about?”
If you have a look at recent postings on WoS, more and more are about who is delivering the message rather than the message itself e.g. Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, BBC, No to Borders. Indeed it may be a self-defeating approach given that the Yes campaign is led by someone who has professed his admiration for Rupert Murdoch!
There is less and less about actual referendum issues.
@Jeremy Watson – 10:29
Thumbs up.
Back to the Daily Mail performance here.
I don’t know about you all but I find that guy Alan Roden truly obnoxious. I have seen him occasionally on Sunday Politics or some such. Strangely, he reminds me of Iain Murray the Labour idiot who replaced Nigel Griffiths at the feeding trough, otherwise known as Westminster. Both seem to spit tacks all the time.
Iain Murray, Alan Roden, Simon Pia. What can you say? Does the Animal Breeding Institute in Edinburgh have some connection her? It will be very interesting in a purely scientific study sort of way to observe these creatures the other side of a ‘Yes’ vote. I hope they disappear up their own orifices never to see the light of day again. Anyway it will be a good laugh.
JLT says:
2 May, 2014 at 9:56 am
Mefia! Media … doing this from texting from a phone grrrrrr
When I try to type Media Mafia on my PC , the spellcheck warns me “repetition of words”…
@Michael
To get the record straight, the SNP said that IF someone or some organisation proposed a Devo Max question then this would be put on the ballot paper. NO one came forward.
The SNP never proposed a question and always stated unequivocally that they would only campaign for a YES vote.
Yes campaign is led by someone who has professed his admiration for Rupert Murdoch!
Tony Blair has come out for Yes? When did this happen?
Remember that on one edition of ‘Call Kaye’ she revealed that she’d never heard of the McCrone Report?
Remember the day when she naively validated the programme’s topic being yet another attack on Salmond/the SNP/independence on the flimsy basis that “the newspapers are full of it”?
Now, I wouldn’t suggest that everyone in the media ought to have a comprehensive knowledge of Scottish politics, and I’m sure Ms Adams could do very well presenting, say, something for children. But if you’re a presenter on a programme which includes phone-in discussions and messages, and you’re not as informed as those contributing, and you’re unaware that newspapers have their own political agenda and can be biased and untruthful, why have you been given that job?
You’re Putin me on!
Oh, Phil, that’s utterly hilarious. You make a complaint about an attack being made on the messenger rather than the message. But you know perfectly well the post was about the factual inaccuracies in the DM article rather than the DM itself though of course the latter is a well known purveyor of hate and lies and ripe for attack. Then you conclude your own post with an example of the very thing you’re purportedly so upset about. That’s funny.
We can all see what BT Establishment are at.
Salmond Putin is a non story!
They using the usual FAUX outrage to drum up FALSE storm.
Its for dim dimmer populous consumption.
Painting Salmond a fool, and increase the NO vote.
The Economy and Independence are the important topics.
ps. A Campbell a very dangerous psychopath. Kay Adams is Labour troll, she was parachuted into BBC Scotland in the Labour years, very suspicious. She’s a politico with a politics degree. She’s heavy Labour. I’ve been listening longtime. UK Labour are not a democratic organisation, they’re a criminal mafia.
@ onzebill
Sorry about that onzebill – not sure why you are having problems there. I managed to donate using my VISA card no problem although another Wings reader (Lynn M) had problems using Maestro. On the brighter side, the appeal has now reached £750 of its £1500 target–50% of the way there. I am sure we will succeed.
A huge, heartfelt thanks to everyone who has donated thus far to the making of ‘Autumn Leaves’ – ’tis the Autumn of the Union, the season when Scotland decides to leave the union.
Let’s get it made.
link to kickstarter.com
Thanks again everyone. You truly are an amazing bunch.
I spoke on the phone to a young lady from potters bar yesterday she asked about the referendum and said we had a long way to go according to what she had read. What does she read? None other than the hate mail I directed her to wos and newsnet. She phoned me back after two and a half hours to tell me she had cancelled her subscription to the hate mail AND she had scanned both sites and could not believe the difference between the news down there and reality! she was in kinks of laughter about Hammond and the threats from space saying even her five year old would not believe the garbage that is being thrown at us. She wished us well for our sakes and for her fellow English as she thinks that if they lose Scotland Cameron will be forced to resign. If he doesn’t where does she apply to come live up here
Then Morag (our Morag ???) comes on….
No. Someone else. Not actually an uncommon name round these parts.
This is very worrying, an organisation apparently concerned with human rights, opposing self-determination and supporting an obvious British state sponsored (black ops) grass-roots campaign. Perhaps no surprise coming from Glasgow Uni.
link to glasgowunihumanrights.blogspot.co.uk
link to totalpolitics.com
Phil
Tell me, if you can, when Blair Jenkins has ever expressed admiration for Rupert Murdoch?
@CameronB
That guy is a well known crank who would merit a spot in the Rev’s comic relief section. Pay no attention.
Kaye Adams is a liar. She says she didn’t know about the Lord Robertson’s remarks regarding Putin and NATO. She said she didn’t know about the McCrone report either.
The woman has a degree in politics. OF COURSE, she knew about those items.
Come independence she and the rest of them at BBC Scotland have got to go. Scotland has had enough of liars.
Yet another disappointing post that attacks the messenger and ignores the message.
Phil
The decision to go for a simple ad hominem form of attack was taken early on by Project Fear. For what ever reason they seem to have decided to attack Salmond personally on absolutely everything. The Mail is just following suit as Roden is friendly with the Project Fear architects.
They are tilting at windmills though. I am voting Yes for Scotland’s future. Heading towards retirement age by 2016, Salmond is not going to be a major feature of the future. They have misjudged this but then their whole campaign has been shite so it is no surprise.
Elizabeth Bashir, does appear to be the ‘go-to’ pensioner.
link to cipr.co.uk
(pp 2, col.2, para. 5)
link to gha.org.uk
(pp 13 & 14)
Regarding this film ‘Autumn Leaves’ will someone PLEASE get them to take note that ‘Auld Lang Syne’ does NOT contain the words ‘…for the SAKE of…’
If they get that wrong then what else have they stuffed up on?
Not sure if anyone has drawn attention to this outrageous comment article in the FT by Kevin Toolis.
“Scots should recall the poverty of the Irish Free State”.
link to archive.today
Alex Salmond and cybernat alerts.
“Michael says:
Oh, Phil, that’s utterly hilarious”
Maybe didn’t make myself clear. The point is that if your tactic is to play the ball rather than the man then you have to be aware that it cuts both ways.
What is amusing, though, are the two posts trying to divert attention away from who did profess his admiration of Rupert Murdoch!
They are starting to believe their own lies and propaganda. Long may it continue.
@ The Rough Bounds,
Re: The song of ‘Auld Lang Syne’, for the film ‘Autumn Leaves’; this version of the song by Eddi Reader has been used for promo purposes only and another version will be recorded for the final film. Thanks for your time in checking us out. Much appreciated. And thanks to all who continue to support us and to the good Rev Stu for allowing us to post to you fine people.
link to kickstarter.com
Phil, you’re doing it again.
@ The Rough Bounds
Regarding this film ‘Autumn Leaves’ will someone PLEASE get them to take note that ‘Auld Lang Syne’ does NOT contain the words ‘…for the SAKE of…’
If they get that wrong then what else have they stuffed up on?
I think I explained this previously – Eddi Reader inserts “for the sake of” (as many singers do) because the melody does not ‘fit’ the simpler Burns structure. Here is what Wiki says (in case you missed it last time):
Most common use of the song involves only the first verse and the chorus. The last lines of both of these are often sung with the extra words “For the sake of” or “And days of”, rather than Burns’ simpler lines. This allows one note for each word, rather than the slight melisma required to fit Burns’ original words to the melody.
– link to en.wikipedia.org
I guess it is what they call ‘artisic license’.
LOL
I thought Phil was referring to the non-stop ad hominems on Salmond. It never occurred to me that anyone of sane mind would attempt to spin it the other way.
Now that is funny.
Will there be a catastrophe in Scotland as they panic even more . WM can then sway in and fix it and say look we’re better together.
Phil,
Who professed their admiration for Rupert Murdoch? Are you referring to Gordon Brown? Or Tony Blair? or Margaret Thatcher? Because THEY all did – Brown thought he was a family friend for a while!
That’s why he was able to consolidate his media power and presence in Britain for so long – long before Salmond got near Bute House.
That one’s not going to stick I’m afraid.
Please can wingers help fund this real grass roost campaign. Thanks.
link to nationalcollective.com
The words Burns wrote fit the music perfectly well when it is realised (as most children learning music realise by the time they are five or six) that you can sing more than one note to a single syllable. The technical term is “melisma”.
link to en.wikipedia.org
It’s a very ancient technique and arose in western musical tradition along with Gregorian chant.
If Eddie Reader insists on singing the wrong words because she hasn’t quite mastered melismatic techniques that’s her prerogative but it’s a move that doesn’t go down well this side of the border. I would advise against it in a film intended to unite people behind the referendum.
It’s back to the days of Lord Haw Haw for the Mail. Trying to demoralise the Scots with faux reporting.
George Gebbie : YouGov’s fieldwork is online-only. In fact, one of the concerns about the polling from our point of view is that all three of the more Yes-friendly pollsters are online. YouGov are unique in being an online pollster that produces better results for No (probably because of their weighting procedures, although maybe there’s something unusual about the composition of their panel as well).
The two most No-friendly pollsters at present are TNS-BMRB (face-to-face fieldwork), which shows a Yes vote with DKs excluded of 41%, and Ipsos-Mori (telephone fieldwork), which shows a Yes vote of just 36%. The assumption is that Ipsos-Mori only call landlines, because it would be too difficult to track down people in Scotland by mobile. But no-one seems to know for sure, because they’re secretive about that side of their methodology.
I am as fed up, as we all are with the daily rubbish, and am getting concerned with the roll of the Electoral Commission. So I have sent them this and asked for an answer.
Dear Sirs,
“I am a voter in the Independence Referendum, and have taken some happiness that the Commission is involved.
However, circumstances have arisen that for myself and no doubt others that seem to put the impartiality of the Commission in doubt.
1, The appalling decision that the CBI have been allowed to de register, for these reasons. They are clearly not impartial as can be seen in their website,
they claimed to hold a mandate from their membership, they clearly did not as in Scotland at any rate they received no such mandate.
They are actively campaigning against a YES vote against their recent statements to the contrary.
A precedent was invented for them, why?
The question really is, can the Commission now be seen to be impartial, it could be or not?.
Or are they either scared of the “Establishment”, or part of it.
What they have done is now a worry to voters, all brought on by the either the poor judgment of the Commission, or the willful pandering to Westminster
elites. It is all quite shocking.
Same subject, different group, the BBC. Why does the Commission turn a blank, when it comes to insisting the BBC register as a NO campaign?
It is clearly bias and working for the NO campaign, it is there to see everywhere, one would need to be blind not to acknowledge this is the case.
They are putting huge resources in backing the NO camp sentiments. There is an ever increasing amount of evidence that can confirm this is the case.
However, I feel sure, in your position, you WILL already know this.
So please if you would be so kind answer these issues for me, and restore my faith in your impartiality.
Yours Sincerely “
and the band played on.
@Morag: “The words Burns wrote fit the music perfectly well”.
As I understand it,that particular tune was not the one sang when the bard wrote the song. If memory serves Jean Redpath has recorded both versions. I’m no expert but perhaps the older version may fit the lyrics to the music a little better.
Alex Salmond has risen several more notches in my estimation! He must be an absolute saint if this is the very worst that the gutter press can find on him. How many of us could, in all honesty, stand such intense scrutiny? Perhaps if they turned their attention to Westminster with such enthusiasm, they would find information more worthy of the gutter press!
Eddi Reader is a keen supporter of the Yes campaign and the Scotsman did a severe hatchet job on her last year. here’s a copy of her letter:
Eddi responds to recent Scotsman article
September 30, 2013
Eddi would like to respond to an article entitled “Eddi Reader reveals great uncle’s life as IRA chief” that appeared in The Scostman on 29 September.
I did no interview with The Scotsman. There is a book I am writing which will be out. The Scotsman did a hatchet job on me, and in regards to my ancestor, they were very slack with the truth.
Their motive was as follows. I complained to the Press Complaints Commission a few months back because The Scotsman printed the Scottish Saltire with a Nazi sign superimposed upon it insulting ALL Scots.
The article was trying to portray ALL people wanting to have Scots running Scotland and independence voters as having links with the early Fascists.
The journalist scrapped around and tried to attach my great uncle, who supported independence, to a ‘Nazi’ group and a terrorist organisation, creating hateful responses and threats to my family.
ALL because I have declared an intention to vote ‘yes’ to Scotland managing its own funds from its own parliament. I am not a politician. I discovered my uncle’s archive, which clearly defines the time in Scotland between 1707 and 1969.
It’s a rather large tale which needs more than glib reporting. The living history in it is fascinating and I am preparing it to be shared, independence or NOT! Before the two world wars, Scots and Irish were conjoined at the hip in culture and music. He was writing the story of his life down during the 1950s. He was not born into an Irish Catholic Glasgow family but was committed, as all his relatives were, until the end of his days, to supporting the downtrodden in society.
The Scotsman journalist Tom Peterkin was asked to wait until I have collated and finished the book. He ignored me and wrote an article with a headline encouraging those who do not think straight to believe I sanctioned it. They did this because they want to put Scots off the democratic peaceful democratic choice that they face in the referendum. I will never forgive them.
I will arrange interviews about this story when all the facts will surface with clarity and truth.
With respect,
Eddi Xxx
Ah, the ethnomusicological minefield of which tunes have been used for various Burns songs. Huge subject.
However, not relevant here. The present tune suits the words of the original perfectly well. There’s no need to postulate some earlier “a little better” because there is no problem with the current tune.
The only problem is that some people, mainly outwith Scotland, have got into the habit of singing the wrong words. To blame this on the tune is fatuous. For a Scot to make spurious excuses to go on singing the wrong words is – inadvisable, at the preset time.
Thanks to all you warriors out there for keeping me sane after a day of scanning MSM getting to know the enemy.
Managed to swing 3 naysayers to the cause so far. Really think this is where the battle will be won. Keep up the good work people.
Kay Adams had a guest John McTernan (on twice) on her BBC Radio Scotland Call Kay show. I recall it was around Labour 2007 Holyrood defeat, and then again around Labour 2010 Westminister defeat.
She introduced him as a Scottish Newspaper columnist! But I knew of him as a rabid UK Labour nutjob, who worked as British Labour Party “political adviser” to Tony Blair.
Why would Kay Adams be secretive about her guests background, unless she’s one of them and trying to deceive her radio listeners! She has a politics degree, so she knew!
He’s nasty piece of work and totally undemocratic authoritarian totalitarian saying this on 16Dec2013, on Daily Politics show:
“there shouldn’t be a referendum and “I don’t care if they [the people] want it, they want a lot of things but they can’t have them”
Haven’t seen him mentioned on Wings before but everyone must know him, as an arch anti-Scot!
ps. Kay Adams is Scottish but doesn’t even know Scottish school exams. She broadcast on her Radio show saying ‘O’Levels instead of ‘O’Grades, dumb or what!
Phil,
“Playing the ball rather than the man” is exactly what we’ve all been waiting for in vain since the referendum was announced – then we might actually get to hear the No campaigns’ arguments, if they have any. Sadly, the No Campaign seem only to do the reverse.
A reminder.
Intelligence does not support a No vote.
Fear and prejudice do.
So, don’t be daft, use your heid !
Do the right thing and vote Yes.
You’ll never regret it.
Can anyone on here please explain AS’s & the SNP’s rationale for agreeing to an interview with Alastair Campbell?.
Did they expect anything other than the MSN and political opposition savaging of his views on Putin….
Seems very dodgy tactics by our usually sure – footed First Minister.