Take a look at what you could have won
We’ve been substantially updating yesterday’s feature on the financial strength of an independent Scotland, based on the calculations by the pro-Union economist Prof. Brian Ashcroft. Thanks to the readers who pointed out some of the finer detail.
The results, we think you’ll agree, are pretty breathtaking.
The most striking thing is what a vast difference relatively small amounts of money make over a cumulative period. None of the annual surpluses identified by Prof. Ashcroft from the official government figures were individually all that enormous. But to a small country like Scotland, what are in global terms trivial amounts of money add up to a hefty chunk of the nation’s finances pretty fast.
A net surplus of £68bn over 32 years is just over £2bn a year, out of a total Scottish budget (both Scottish Government and UK government expenditure) of around £60bn. Even now, an independent Scotland could save three-quarters of that sum every year overnight by reducing its defence budget to the same level as comparable nations.
With every year that Scotland delays independence and remains shackled instead to the massive debt and deficit of the UK, however, the healthy economic nation it could be becomes exponentially harder to achieve. Fortunately, an opportunity to make that decision is only 14 months away.
Exactly, why people want to stay in a Union steeped in debt and only getting worse, draining Scotland dry at the same time baffles me. This misguided loyalty to Great Britain, we are like the battered puppy dog, running up to it’s master, hoping this time it will get a pat and a treat, instead of a beating.
could have had the speedboat
got the trouser press
@ Rikki
Your dog analogy is exactly how I see the relationship too.
@JimbotheScot – Ah, but clearly Scotland would be the guy who lives in the 14th storey flat, wins the speedboat and then doesn’t know what to do with it.
So clearly, its much better to give the speedboat to Westminster and get a trouser press back from them instead!
O/T..
Alan Wicker of Wickers World has just died, aged 87…he was probably best known for his programme Wickers World….though I think he was a war journalist who covering the Vietnam War.
A trouser press is of little use if you wear a kilt.
Supersmashin’great!
Nothing in this game for two in a bed….
I don’t think that people want to stick to a union that accrues debt and has a poor history of economic management for the benefit of all the people who reside here in these isles.
The wee snippet about ‘sovereign’ territory is just to re-emphasise the older scare stories that somehow Scotland has to pay for the movement of nuclear weapons (to where?) when we will simply say that it is up to whatever is left of the former uk to decide on whether they need to decommission the nuclear weapons or CHOOSE to retain them and use some other place (I see France is suggested) to house the weapons safely as I know that it is an enormous financial burden of its own simply to build a new weapons depot capable of housing the weapons……..
On top of that Trident is about to expire with age………without Scotland, and with the other reductions in showboating ability within the world (this ‘punching above our weight bollocks we hear so much about) the weapons are shown to be what they should be seen to be right now-a luxury us ‘belt tighteners’ simply cannot afford.
It is simply wrong morally and legally to continue with what will be a new very poor indeed former uk dreaming that it needs nuclear weapons to make its way in the world…..force its way in the world aye…….that is what they mean about ‘punching above our weight’ by having an American North Atlantic deterrent next to our largest city in Scotland, it is all about the ‘prestige’ and the bullying even when in a post cold war british Isles nuclear weapons have no case at all to be renewed.
Let’s hope the only thing the unionist parcel o rogues win next year is their BFH……….Bus Fare Home!
@Andy-B
Sad loss. I used to enjoy Wicker’s world. I am also immediately reminded of the Monty Python sketch. A kind tribute to him in many ways. “The only thing wrong on Wickers Island, is that there aren’t enough rich people left to interview!”
Back on topic.
There has got to be enough material now being pushed into the public domain for a short, punchy A5 publication that hits the bullet points home to those still worried about a YES vote. Scotland will only get worse if it does not take this chance. Will your children, and their children ever forgive you for wasting this opportunity?
Blair McDougall explores the barrel`s bottom…again.
link to twitter.com
If anything, a vote for independence is a vote to rid ourselves of the pus filled plooks that are unionists like Blair McDougall.
@Tony Little
Couldnt agree more Whicker had a way of conveying,a story or as you say, the Monty Python sketch, that was just deadpan, which made him even more believable, I wonder what he’d have made of the BBC’s antics in this day and age.
If the French, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis and Iranians have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t we?
@Currywurst
The USA has the death penalty and Guantanamo bay, why shouldn’t we? (by the by, where is the evidence that Iran has nuclear weapons?)
Norway and Sweden have a social democratic philosophy why shouldn’t we?
Russia has no/little justice for ordinary citizens, why shouldn’t we?
China has an appalling human rights record, why shouldn’t we?
You have a new strawman argument, why should anyone listen to you?
@Currywurst
So you know your place. You look up to the Yanks and the Russkis but you look down on the French etc. Thats not Python thats TBM, Typically British Mentality. Get used to being a resident of a small island off the coast of Europe and stop pretending to punch above your weight. You cant afford it.
He is a trier you can give Ashcroft that much. He really does try his best for the Unionist cause despite the material he has to work with
“If the French, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis and Iranians have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t we?”
Is “because we can’t afford them” a good enough reason? Or how about “because they’re a complete waste of money”?
Let’s reverse the question: if [INSERT ALL 180+ NON-NUCLEAR NATIONS HERE] don’t have nuclear weapons, why should we?
handclapping
Frost report wasn’t it
“I get a crick in my neck”
Aaargh! It wasn’y Python, it was TW3 John Cleese and the two Ronnies. My bad
If the French, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis and Iranians have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t we?
What worries me is that this is actually the reasoning behind why the UK has nuclear weapons.
Phil. Is that you?
It’s back!
currywurst = norse warrior
“currywurst = norse warrior”
Folks, you know the rules on this.
If you added an investment return on your 2 billion pa then your 68 billion would rise significantly. I’m sure the Norwegians would share some advice. I saw they give advice to the Chinese government on their balance of payments surplus and the value of the yuan.
Surely the 21st century is more about economic power and relationships than investing in WMDs.
“If the French, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis and Iranians have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t we?”
Christ almighty, is this really how Unionists think? Thank fuck we’ve got the chance to get rid of that lot next year.
@currywurst
By the way, you forgot the USA and the North Koreans. Was that list you gave the ones you consider to be the ‘baddies’? Best you tell the French, then, eh! And, it must feel great to have the North Koreans on your side as one of the good guys!
Another thing. Can you please give evidence that Iran definitely has nuclear weapons, otherwise people might think you’re talking shite – and you wouldn’t want that, now, would you?!
“What worries me is that this is actually the reasoning behind why the UK has nuclear weapons.”
I wouldn’t even call it “reasoning”. It’s just part of “human nature”. (Just like the thing people refer to as “capitalism.”)
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
@currywurst
at first you just annoyed me but remembering my granny who was accepting and liberal and used to say rats are also loved by The Lord,I view your comments as helpful.they are an object lesson for those who have never encountered the average Unionist and their utter stupidity. Sorry for the directness but back to my granny…you are also one o God’s wains.
“the average Unionist”
To be fair, if you were using Currywurst as an example of a typical something, I’d say Tory before Unionist. The nasty “I’m okay, so fuck everyone else” attitude is more characteristic of a Tory than anything else.
My mum used to say in reply to such questions as “why shouldn’t we” or usually “why can’t I when so-and-so can – if so-and-so jumped in the Clyde would you? In case that’s too difficult to follow, there are no reasons to do the same as another country simply because they do” the reasons for doing the same are the reasons that it benefits you in some way. Nuclear weapons may benefit Israel, the USA found them handy in Japan, and maybe North Korea manages to totter from one famine to another on the back of them, but they give no benefits to an independent Scotland and they give no benefits to the current UK if truth were told.
I was going to save this comment for my 60th birthday in twelve days time but this seems like a more appropriate time.
In light of Scotland’s lost oil revenue I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Westminster government for screwing up more than half of my bloody life! When I think of what could have been, all the lost opportunities it makes me so sad and so very, very angry.
@Rev
To be fairer yet, the average Unionist is probably so because of a mistaken belief they are promoting International Socialist solidarity rather than the troughing hopes of their MPs.
We mustn’t abandon the Liverpool granny.
We mustn’t abandon the Liverpool granny.
Fact is not only have they abandoned the Liverpool granny, they have abandoned anyone on low wages, anyone who is disabled, anyone that is affected by the ‘bedroom tax’ and if you are unemployed then they are certainly not interested in your problems.
What a hoot – Westminster having to ask the French if they’ll house Trident for them. Can’t see it myself.
If we are talking Labour they have abandoned themselves so what chance has anyone else got?
Currywurst = basically a chopped up smoked pork sausage smothered in tomato ketchup and sprinkled with curry powder usually served from a schnelimbus (burger van) on a cardboard tray.
You eat it by poking it with a little wooden fork. Kind of a German equivalent of a deep fried mars bar.
@Shinty
Given Hague’s penchant for increasing the quantity of arms in the Middle East, Westminster has probably already asked the Iranians if they’d house Trident while they build a bomb store in England.
@ Currywurst
I would prefer ‘ prodesse quam conspici’ as a motto for Scotland.
I would prefer ‘ prodesse quam conspici’ as a motto for Scotland.
That certainly encapsulates the fundamental difference in governance between Scotland and the UK.
@ Currywurst
I wouldn’t even call it “reasoning”. It’s just part of “human nature”. (Just like the thing people refer to as “capitalism.”)
What Chinese cracker did that nugget fall from?
Are you one of Thatchers’ children, or are you of an earlier generation?
If it is the former, I would say you could be defined as a ‘victim’ of the relentless neo-con mantra that has so permeated Wastemoster and the MSM for the last three decades. If you are the later, then you are patently too ignorant to debate with. You would help your case if you tried to substantiate your future claims with supporting evidence.
Does anyone know why a submarine that can ‘sail’ on the water surface until it dives requires a deep water harbour?
@ Atypical Scot: that is not a helpful question to aid this discussion, better that you speak when spoken to.
And to answer your silly question – to hide;to sleep;to justify using Scotland rather than the white cliffs of Dover;to imprint the Union stamp on Scotland;to enable some grouse shoots whilst Seniors are on inspection visits;to create employment for persons assigned to Faslane from Englandshire and so enable labour’s Jackie Baillie to talk about job losses.
Where are the French facilities you ask. Do the French have deep water harbours for their nuclear subs? Really, Lord give me strength – I don’t know
@velofello;
Thank goodness there is a better reason than that I had imagined – that the subs need deep water harbours to practice rising vertically and jumping through hoops, or standing upright in unison using their propellers:-)
Andy-B, Alan Whicker started out on a World War 2 Film Unit filming the action in Italy. Towards the end of the war he was filming so far in front of the rest of the army that an SS General wanted to surrender his division to Whicker.Whicker was wondering how he could guarantee the safety of thousands of prisoners surrounded by partisans ,when the arrival of a regular unit solved his problem.
And to answer your silly question – to hide;to sleep;to justify using Scotland rather than the white cliffs of Dover;to imprint the Union stamp on Scotland;to enable some grouse shoots whilst Seniors are on inspection visits;to create employment for persons assigned to Faslane from Englandshire and so enable labour’s Jackie Baillie to talk about job losses.
So basically this ‘deep water harbour’ is a load of old whatsit.
Whatsit translated as being: know your place Scotland, we’ll do as we damned well please.
Another Union dividend.
What’s all the latin? I don’t do latin. Tran
slations please.
Accomplish rather than be conspicuous.
“could have had the speedboat”
why? you live in Birmingham
“got the trouser press”
but you look pure dead smart
“If the French, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis and Iranians have nuclear weapons, why shouldn’t we?”
Why don’t Germany Italy Poland I could go on not feel the need for nuclear weapons?
“What’s all the latin? I don’t do latin. Tran
slations please.”
See if you type it into the google search bar Niall, it’ll do a translation for you
as someone else is always at pains to say on another site,
glad to help
@currywurst
thinking carefully through arguments, counter arguments and viewpoints, i shall just leave this.
link to m.youtube.com