Scotland’s shame
Posted on
June 08, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
It’s going to be tough to hold our heads up abroad if Scotland actually democratically votes not to take responsibility for its own affairs like any normal grown-up country.
In any vaguely self-respecting world, a No vote would be accompanied by the immediate disbandment of the Scottish national football and rugby teams, because we’d have declared ourselves not to be a nation. But either way, hopefully we won’t have to face scenes of opposing fans telling us to man up again after 2014.
and as Marge Curran and I predicted, a victory in Zagreb! I also think she’d agree with me that Rhodes should start and that Naismith is a better bet than Bannan right now. Quite a few positives in defense though.
fingers crossed the undecideds grow a backbone. Saying that there is a lot more people who I know coming over to the light and realising that Westmonster doesn’t work for Scotland we work for them. I think Mr Miliband and Mr Baws have helped push people into understanding there is no alternative to the tories ethos as Labour have decided that social justice is no longer something that matters
Reminds me of my favourite banner from last year’s indy rally: link to diigo.com
Roddy
I like that – I would like to stick that on my Faceache page who do I credit?
If we vote NO with the world watching, (there will not be a bigger story on the day) we will be a laughing stock and will be deservedly derided for generations as a nation of cowards. There is no excuse as the facts and figures will be out there . What price Scotland the brave, flower of Scotland etc. We are either a country or we are not. Which is it!
Will we see this splashed all over the back pages? No. I thought not.
HandandShrimp
I’m sorry, I don’t know who the creator was. I imagine he or she might be a reader here, though!
@Stu
Do you really think these fans were telling us to ‘man up’? When I saw the picture, and before I read your words I simply assumed it was a message of support. Perhaps I don’t understand football fans.
The mouse banner will be Chic MacGregor’s handiwork h and s and Rodmac
Sure he won’t mind me pointing that out and yes he is a regular poster here
Nope… that doesn’t look like Chic’s work to me. I could be wrong though…
Great gesture by the Croats
Shame the BBC didnt show the banner on tv last night as it’s not those in the ground that need convincing.
As a regular at Scotland games – home and away – the fans you meet are largely pro independence. A wee squint at http://www.tartanarmyboard.co.uk confirms that. It would be good to see a large YES banner being passed over north stand crowd at next home game.
Whatever the intent behind the banner let’s not forget how much the Croatians suffered to achieve their own independence and take it as a message of goodwill.
Consequence of voting NO.
A little taster – today’s 30p i paper doesn’t so much as even mention last night’s result against Croatia, and that’s whilst we are “partners”. Just think of the scorn that will be coming the way of all of us if a majority prove to be fearties and vote No to being a nation.
A pic of him him holding it at the rally on his fb page, might be a wee giveaway too HB
Cheers Roddy and Gaavster
bunter says:
“8 June, 2013 at 9:29 am
deservedly derided for generations as a nation of cowards.”
that will be region, really the Idea of nation should then be given up for good.
@HandandShrimp: It’s from a Croatian newspaper here.
link to 24sata.hr
But you can always credit Dcanmore, on the ‘Uninteresting News Ignored’ thread.
Sorry H&S, just realised you were talking about the Moose Rampant… Doh!
If we vote NO then I’m sure that Norway will at least raise an eyebrow bearing in mind that they allegedly voted 99.5% / 0.5% in favour of independence from Sweden.
OK, Gaavster… that seems pretty convincing. Although, in my defence, I never go near Faceplook nor any pages thereon.
Talking of a Nation of Cowards, I wonder how the vote would turn out if the question was turned on it’s head, i.e. Do you think Scotland should be a DEPENDENT country.
Definition of dependent (Oxford Dictionary)
adjective
1 (dependent on/upon) contingent on or determined by:the various benefits will be dependent on length of service
2requiring someone or something for financial or other support:an economy heavily dependent on oil exportshouseholds with dependent children
unable to do without:people dependent on drugs
Apologies for the formatting (perils of copy and paste), but you get the gist
I feel like I get a bit red faced even at the thought of a no vote. Its too cringey to contemplate.
Quite an interesting development in the Tartan Army. It’s long been considered that part of the reason for following the national football team is more than mere sporting adventure, it’s simply a way for Scots to express themselves on the international stage.
The Tartan Army have won numerous ‘fair play’ awards in the last 20 years, a substantial percentage consider themselves ambassadors for Scotland in foreign lands, where our political situation doesn’t allow for any equivalent diplomacy. This might sound fanciful to the non-football fan but every time Scotland play an away game the Tartan Army Sunshine Appeal raises thousands of pounds for the local orphanages or hospices or whatever else is deemed appropriate by well meaning fans.
This is not a political organisation, it is simply charitable.
For (some of) the Tartan Army to now become so politicised that banners like that are being displayed and accepted by the travelling support at away games is indicative of the change that’s happening in folks’ minds at home.
I’ve no doubt that come the 7th of August when Scotland play at Wembley, there’ll be more of these sort of banners.
Whether or not the Glesga polis will allow them into Hampden a month later when Belgium come to play Scotland is another matter, but it’s good to see the Tartan Army making statements like this.
bunter says:
8 June, 2013 at 9:29 am
If we vote NO with the world watching, (there will not be a bigger story on the day) we will be a laughing stock and will be deservedly derided for generations as a nation of cowards. There is no excuse as the facts and figures will be out there . What price Scotland the brave, flower of Scotland etc. We are either a country or we are not. Which is it!
As much as I agree, you can’t help but laugh at the irony. The oppressed Scot who gets a beemur about their Scottishness now faces the ultimate dilemma: Deny your beemur and vote No and be locally inclusive within the UK, accept your Britishness and speak not a word of Braveheart again.
And thereby suffer the rest of the world’s mockery. Forever.
Or, just vote Yes and maintain the World’s respect.
…. it’s good to see the Tartan Army making statements like this.
That’s what I initially thought, but I’m picking up the message that the banner was actually being displayed by Croatian fans. I think.
That makes it big news, but we have to get it from a Croatian paper.
The Croation fans had that banner Gillean.
“ScottyC1314 says:
8 June, 2013 at 9:52 am
Great gesture by the Croats
Shame the BBC didnt show the banner on tv last night as it’s not those in the ground that need convincing. ”
The Croats were solely in charge of the TV coverage last night – game, replays, crowd shots, etc. The commentary team told us that during the warm-up. We can blame the UBC for a lot, but not on this occasion (unfortunately).
Yes, but see what the Barca fans do (regularly). link to dailymail.co.uk If Croatia can put up banners for us, surely to God we can manage a few ourselves?
It’s as simple as this: voting for independence will mean us being able to look other Europeans in the eye. Failure to do so will mean us staring at our feet.
Thanks for the correction, my mistake.
Ah well England’s under 21s took one hell of a beating from Norway.
kininvie says:
8 June, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Yes, but see what the Barca fans do (regularly).
Probably too late but no Scottish football team was / is prepared to stand up for their Scottish identity like Barcelona. Only Aberdeen or Hearts has the potential to do this but both seem to be run by unionists.
Its certainly a gesture of support – I did a lot of work for Croatian self-determination in the late 1980s, not just because of the Croatian poiitical exiles living in Scotland (remember the Belgrade-sponsored assassination attempt in Kirkcaldy in 1988, where the hitman came in as part of the droves of fans for a Yugoslavia game against Scotland?), but because the experience of Croatia’s pre-20th century political history was very resonant with Scotland’s (union of crowns etc etc). I suspect that for a country in a similar position to the one they were in – but to be able to vote themselves out of the problem without a bullet fired – yes, they’d support that…..
Personally speaking, I think matters of politics should be kept well OFF the football field, most especially concerning nationalistic matters. Hard core Croatian football supporters should perhaps consider getting their own house in order, before very visibly and clumsily wading into matters that absolutely do not concern them.
Surely there’s been enough of crap like this with the Old Firm ahem ‘rivalry’ over the years for anyone to be left in any doubt… just because a third party espouses views that chime in with your own, does not mean you should automatically applaud, approve and/or endorse. There is a bigger (principled) picture here.
@CC-
‘There is a bigger (principled) picture here.’
Aye. Some call it solidarity.
Troubled Tory Twitter Britnat twats talking trash….again.
link to twitter.com
What a sad, sad pair o` wankers.
‘Aye. Some call it solidarity’
But hang on, people were mightily brassed off when ministers of the Irish Republic (among others) spoke out in terms of an independent Scotland’s likely status within the EU? (Not to mention the Welsh government also). The message was, very much, “wind your necks in”…?
At least those governments *do* have a valid, vested interest in the outcome of Scotland’s referendum, what with their being EU member states (and indeed member of the United Kingdom in the case of Wales’ government). What vested interests do a bunch of Croat football supporters have? If it was the other way round (e.g. Rangers’ supporters decrying independence), I doubt they’d be lauded – double standards – hence the need for a principled, consistent, even-handed stance.
I can’t stand football (or its supporters) frankly – of any stripe or persuasion – a conviction made all the deeper after Rangers fans saw fit to wreck the city in which I work, leaving business owners to pick up the bill for their mindless rampage. It is, in my opinion, a deeply unpleasant, nastily tribal sport – in stark contrast to Rugby, which has passionate rivalries but does not suffer the same mindless, trouble-making thug mentality.
@CC-
Thugs are free to choose which sport they follow.
Football fans – thugs or not – have the freedom to hold opinions – political or not – and to express them as they see fit.
@CC The Irish minister wasn’t too happy with the way the BBC treated her comments.
It takes one to know one – some Scottish people want independence. Many in Croatia can relate to that – it’s no biggy.
Also – the Croats may not have their “house in order” yet, but at least they have a house…..
When I saw this I did wonder what the likes of Ruth davidson and David Cameron must think. Politicians in other countries in or out of the EU will probably understand the UKs desire to hang onto it’s cash cow, but people the world over know it’s wrong to subvert the wealth of another nation this way.
When I go to meetings I see Canadians and Isralis and Swedes and Irish and they all support independence because, as has been said before, it’s the default state for country to be in and to every other country in the world OUR arrangement is the one that looks a bit weird.
Naw! In any vaguely self-respecting world, there would be an immediate disbandment of the Scottish national football and rugby teams, simply because they’re shite.