Wings Over Scotland

o/t File on 4 looking at the rigging of postal votes 20:00 on radio 4

An excellent speech, well delivered and well received.
Alex showed why he is the best politician in the UK. He is a wholly committed man to the cause, and always has been.
Very well done. Q& A were also answered very well.

My son was a senior member of the Labour organisation at Westminster for several years until recently. We often talked politics and he told me quite frankly that in his opinion (and it was shared by many of his colleagues) Alex Salmond was far and away the best politician in the UK. They actually wished that he had been a Labour MP as he would inevitably have won the leadership and would at this very moment be Prime Minister in a Labour government.

It’s because Alex Salmond is so good that he attracts all the vitriol from his opponents.

I should say that my son left the organisation because he was convinced that Milliband is useless and that Labour will lose the next election.

Hope there’s be a Salmond versus Cameron TV debate. Alec will destroy him. I think they both realise that!

Luke 4:24

King James Bible translation.

And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

Not completely true of course, some of us have faith in the messenger and the message!

Not specifically to do with the discussion, but with the title of the thread:

it has probably been said many times on this site, that Robert Crawford’s book “Bannockburns” (yes – plural) is a great read. Ought to be compulsory for anyone wishing to vote on September 18.

Includes on p.29 a quotation in Latin which I will try to learn by heart…..

At nos non imperium neque divitias petimus, quarum rerum causa bella atque certamina omnia inter mortalis sunt, sed libertatem, quam nemo bonus nisi cum anima simul amittit.

It’s from the Declaraiton of Arbroath, of course, as you all recognised immediately….. At least learn the English or Scots translation…..

@Indie Vidual
‘We often talked politics and he told me quite frankly that in his opinion (and it was shared by many of his colleagues) Alex Salmond was far and away the best politician in the UK. They actually wished that he had been a Labour MP as he would inevitably have won the leadership and would at this very moment be Prime Minister in a Labour government.

But he was, wasn’t he – and Labour PM was his ambition – according to the one and only Edwina Currie?

@bookie from hell – no it was the 2007 election where SNP formed a minority government and wee McConnell had to be dragged out with his fingernails dragging the walls..They haven’t got over that initial defeat and thats why Toom Tabard was so disrespectful of FM

Meanwhile, out in the real world, YLE (Finnish national broadcaster) carried this item on their website.

link to yle.fi

To those of you who don’t know Finnish, the headline is “London’s City wants to rip the EU’s cap on bonuses”

It’s about the new EU rule that no bonuses should exceed the recipient’s yearly pay.

London City types don’t like it at all, they’re threatening to leave and relocate in the US or Asia. (Why does that sound somehow familiar?)

YLE cites a Julian Dixon, who conducts his business activites in the shadow of London skyscrapers, as saying this is yet another way the eurocrats sink their teeth into the City, because they’re just envious.

YLE goes on to say that the financial sector accounts for approximately 10% of the UK’s GDP and that there are appoximately 2,500 financial workers who earn more than a million euros a year.

Next YLE points out the increasing income inequality in the UK and interviews the leader of a charity opposed to increasing income inequality.

This new EU ruling was conspicuous by its absence in the BBC website. World, UK, European… Not a whiff of this story.

@bookie from hell
‘Remember how he couldn’t bring himself to speak to the newly elected Fist Minister for weeks because of his psychotic loathing of Salmond?

was that when SNP won a majority Scottish Parliament?’

No, it refers to 2007 when Salmond was FM of a minority SNP government. You can extrapolate from that the degree of mental anguish felt by Brown and SLAB in 2011.

Re Brown disrespecting Salmond’s election, I thought it was 2011, as Brown wasn’t PM in 2007?

Sorry to go totally trivial but Alex Salmond’s and JoLa’s respective weight losses just beg the question.

Was it just another SNP initiative that SLAB first opposed but then adopted and claimed as theirs?

DOH!!

@RogueCoder

link to archive.is

Absolutely first class. Very inspiring. He’s right; the positive nature of our campaign alone is making Scotland a better place

It was 2007 and it was Blair that never called. Brown congratulated Salmond about 4 weeks after the election during a call over business matters.

@bookie from hell, here’s the telegraph piece on archive.

link to archive.is

Alistair Carmichael telling us that there’s no such thing as Scottishness. Worth a few more yes votes I would think. What a fanny.

All this Scottish constitutional stuff can get a bit depressing at times because of the relentless negativity of the NO side, so I thank whoever it was that first linked this to WoS. I really like the song and I LOVE the Irn-Bru curlers! 😀

No-one can doubt Alex Salmond’s bravery. He’s been in and around Westminster long enough to know the kind of people he’s up against, and is putting us up against.

What did he say at Calton Hill? ‘These are powerful forces we face.’ Words to that effect, delivered without melodrama, but you could tell he meant it. We can’t say we haven’t been warned, but he knows that we know it’s no ‘game’, and that’s why the pathetic efforts of Darling, Balls, Alexander, Lamont and MacDougall look ever-more lame as they cast about for a way – any way – to frighten us.

They’ve failed, and now – enjoy it folks – that fear has been returned, with levels of interest that would make Wonga green with envy.

We’re winning, and they know we know that they know that we know it – it’s a death-spiral of their own making. What was it again, that Labour spin doctor said, years ago, in his diary? ‘All this huge stuff about trust…’

(Forget his name now…Scottish sounding…has-been gobshite and war criminal…quite a few of them right enough…)

The ranks of New Labour has-beens is about to swell considerably, and their Scottish Conference will help speed the process. Can’t wait to hear the main speeches – JoLa, give it your best shot hen, cause it’s the last time you’ll ever have a captive audience. From September onwards, the biggest crowd you’ll be part of (if they’ll have you) is in your local bingo-hall.

O/T

100,000+ copies of the White Paper printed.

link to bbc.co.uk

Now if only Wings had a pound for every copy printed…oh!

@John B

That quotation has similar sentiments to the Declaration of Arbroath, but it is from Sallust’s “Cataline’s War”

TheDeclaration reads

“Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit.”

Crown office has trashed the Lockerbie film as nothing new here move along. BBC Scotland tea time news.

Actually, I’m going to substantially agree with the Crown Office here, for possibly the first time in recorded history. The basic narrative of the film was in effect a re-run of the original line of inquiry that was pursued in 1989. Al Jazeera had (or claimed to have) some new information that corroborated it, but in fact there was nothing substantial in there that I wasn’t already aware of from my reading round the subject.

I’m not knocking the film because it was well made and for the viewer who wasn’t already familiar with that part of the narrative it was informative. It was good in that it brings the problems with the case back into the public eye. It wasn’t new though, despite the hype.

Something was a bit off. The reason I was contacted to be in the film in the late summer of last year was, as I understood it, because the Al Jazeera investigation had uncovered evidence that their prime suspect had travelled to London on the day of the disaster. They believed London was the scene of the crime, and when they heard that I had an analysis of the forensic evidence that showed London was the scene of the crime, they thought it was a perfect fit.

Except, that part wasn’t there. The main evidence suggesting London was actually my own contribution. The other thing, “sources say the bomb was introduced at Heathrow”, was a detail the investigation didn’t acquire until December. Nothing about how the bomb was taken to London, or by whom, or how it was got into the baggage container. That was the bit I understood they had, the reason I was involved, and the bit I was waiting for.

Why would they leave that out, when it was originally so central? I believe Iran was leaning on them a bit, so I do wonder.

So yes, there was really nothing new. Except my assertion that the forensic evidence shows the bomb went on board at Heathrow. Which the Crown Office have been aware of for more than a year.

Plenty to see here folks, and I believe plenty more to come.

By the way, after the showing of the film Jim Swire said he and some of the other relatives were definitely going to put in an application to the SCCRC for a third appeal. This should happen next month.

Then they will HAVE to listen. In theory anyway. Jim said maybe in three years we’ll have it licked. Certain other people expressed due scepticism at his timetable.

@ Morag, Yes, there wasnt much new in there tonight. Have known about the Iran PFLP-GC link for years, and the causal link from USS Vincennes (their Captain received a medal for shooting down the Airbus). Something they didnt mention, and this is hearsay, but following the warning given a fortnight before, i understand that several senior people moved their seats from that flight to earlier ones, so the threat was credible and acted upon. The link from Germany to London is the crucial one. Could it have been a simple cross channel ferry trip?

Inspirational positiveness does not sit well with foul language.Just saying and will keep on saying. My wife is now A YES supporter but says she would not dream of encouraging her friends to read some of the blogs for indy ,including this one,because what she perceives as offensive language. She has no issues with the robust language used by that nice Mr Bell or Mr Bateman!

Permananently banned from twitter after a stream of complaints apparently. Nothing to do with last night I suppose……
When you hit some people below the water line they really try to do a North Korea and close you down…dissent from official position is banned.

It’s getting ridiculous,so many companies,people are threatening to move south if we vote YES,we could end up calling the whole of UK,Scotland

YA BEAUTY

Wee Sally @ the state broadcaster hints at the spin they will give later today on the GERS figures when she states that it is expected Scotland’s deficit will have increased due to plummeting oil revenues. She said previously Scotland’s defecit was smaller than rUK.

Btw
for the uninitiated the Links Market is reputedly the longest street fair in Europe at just under 1 mile long,
it is held in April each year on the esplanade in Kirkcaldy (an its always bloody freezin) 🙁

Douglas Fraser has got to be the biggest enemy to Scotland since the Battle of Culloden and the Highland Clearance.

He is evil personified.

The guy detests anyone or anything that is a threat to is beloved UK.

He just can’t get over the fall of the Labour Party in Scotland.

At BBC Scotland, he is given the time and space, unhindered, to stab Scotland and his fellow Scots in the back, assisted by is BBC partner in crime Robert Peston.

These two bastards would love nothing better than to see Scotland brought to her knees.

Fraser needs to be constantly reminded of his treachery to Scotland.

How many people in this world would consider voting to become a slave or vassal of another person?

How many countries in this world would consider voting for another country to enslave it rob it of its wealth, culture, history and enforce its wishes on it.

There are a lot of countries who would like to be the master race.

There’s only one I know of who half the population think that sounds like a good idea and would vote to be a second class vassal in their own country. GUESS WHO? Proud pseudo middle class Scots! PATHETIC TRULY PATHETIC.

Morning Scotland/Call Kaye/Call Louise/Call Me a Taxi, whatever the hell it is now, will be discussing the cost of the White Paper.

Starring Jackson Carlaw (who was just a schoolboy when the McCrone report was published, but has had ample opportunity since his last appearance to go away and find out what it is).

Clearly, they’re setting-up a hatchet job, so let’s see what sort of reaction they get – what are good one-liners to justify the money spent on the document?

Personally, I blame taxpayers for spending taxpayers money ordering copies of the white paper.

The White Paper is a great use of public money.

All the information you need on how a Scottish Government would be run after Independence in one document.

I think it is BBC Scotland who should be in the dock here.

We pay them £300 Million a year for a public service and yet we are still waiting on positive unbiased information on how Scotland would be run after Independence.

So who is ripping who off?

BBC Scotland have got some neck on them.

Do as I say not as I do.

They were up in front of a committee in Holyrood yesterday, and we are still waiting to here how they got on, nothing to see here, move along.

Also John Swinney made speech last night on the Scottish economy, no mention of that either.

And why is the fantastic news of Scottish salmon sales increasing throughout the world not their main headline.

The answer is simple. Any positive news about Scotland shall be suppressed.

Any negative news on Scotland shall be highlighted.

@Ian

Q 4 K

How much does WM spend on lavvie paper?

And re the BBC, specifically the arrant cheek of McQuarrie and Boothman to question the methodology of Prof Robertson re the latter’s report on BBC/STV bias.

Well, that’s fine, you pair of superannuated stooges, but presumably you’ll also be questioning the ‘methodology’ of your favourite son Prof Curtice, whose predictions based on ‘polls’ in 2011 were so spectacularly, hopelessly wrong that they would have got the most junior researcher sacked. You won’t be doing that, you say? Nope, didn’t think so.

On ‘K’ –

Grace was great, and William’s now sticking the boot in. Great stuff.

Louise just said BT ‘relies on public donations’.

Aye that’s me and cheers Mr Bell on his follow up!

@Edward –

Right after the news the cost suddenly shot up to 1.5 million. Seems to have dropped back to approx. 1.25, but there’s a long way to go…

Ian Brotherhood says:

“what are good one-liners to justify the money spent on the document?”

I just emailed this:

£1.25m for White Paper on future of Scotland.

£1.2m PER YEAR cost to the public purse to subsidise the bars, restaurants and cafes of the House of Lords.

With regards to Neil Numpty Bibby I remember this
comment I made some time ago.

Aye the chump put a poll on his web-site:

Should Scotland be Independent?

YES = 94.7%

Then the NuLabour Numpty party disappeared it.

People are talking about the WP in our local just about daily now, our savvy landlord keeps a copy under the bar for quick reference, dispelling 9 myths and sometimes stopping arguments getting out of hand.

Any pub landlords (and I know one particular landlady who reads wings) please get yourselves a hard copy ASAP.

They’re back on the WP because they finally found a No voter…but it turns out even he doesn’t object to the WP.

Damn!

Texted them I like salt in my porrige but no mention yet 🙁

O/T Re: Aberdeen City Council

I am hearing that the proposed letter, is actually against local government code of conduct on publicity….council lawyers informed the esteemed leaders of this, but they went ahead with it anyway.

All councillors that voted for it are in breach of this and have failed in their duty….don’t know if it’s enough to get them all out and hold an election though!

@SquareHaggis –

Text them again – tell them that you like salt on your porridge and you’re definitely voting No. You’ll be first on after the news. Sorted.

Not corrected by Ms White was the caller who said that the YES billpoards were paid for by the SG. How about a FOI question to the UK Government on the papers produced by thirteen departments and the huge staff constantly researching ways to damage YES. What about the £5 M spending by BBC for its BEtter Together propaganda?

Looking forward to Fred MacAuley’s show this morning – then I can switch the radio off and take the dogs for a walk.

@Ian

Never thought of that one, darn!

Indeed Mocha, hopefully they come out all guns blazing about the tax changes to the oil industy etc

The closing bit of the discussion is truly awe inspiring when you compare it with party politics. The English correspondents have lots to think about concerning Westminster not doing England justice.

The have had requests for around 100,000 copies of the White Paper

What do they think a 700 page document lots of graphics, pictures and colour is going to cost per copy.

£10 per copy including advertising, printing and postage seems pretty reasonable to me

The point people need to understand is that the cost is this level because it is popular. Perhaps that is what is really annoying them in point of fact.

Looks like the BBC is going to retaliate for the accusations of bias by being very, very biased. One day they are going to want public support…they can want. Hope Osborne screws them over on the licence fee and removes it from being a criminal offence.

To reveal if there has been contamination to the wider Caithness area I suggest the Scottish Government send in their own vets to keep a close eye on newly-borns this calfing/lambing season.

This is my job. This is what we do. We do it all the time. We’re not “sent in” as you suggest, but rather we are constantly monitoring the disease situation in farm animals across Scotland for new and emerging conditions, changing prevalence of established conditions, and resurgence of diseases believed to be eradicated.

If there is any funny stuff, we WILL find it, and we will not be sweeping it under the carpet either I assure you. It is part of our normal everyday job, and the surveillance system is set up in principle to ensure that any occurrences of this nature are flagged up and investigated.

I guess the more difficult question to track down will be what/who instigated the change of focus from Iran/PFLPGC towards Libya. We can speculate but there will be dark forces behind such a move and ultimately may prove impossible to penetrate. In an Indy Scotland we can arrest Blair and ask him…

Could have been “dark forces” and a lot of people think so. Alternatively, some days I suspect it’s going to turn out to be turtles – I mean weapons-grade incompetence – all the way down.

Morag, the other thing which was missing was any mention of the breakin at Heathrow. Have you any thoughts on why this was not mentioned last night as it would certainly allow an explanation/strengthen the case for the suitcase to have been put on at Heathrow rather than anywhere else.

Regarding your viewing yesterday at Holyrood, was there a good attendance there from the msp’s and was there any discussion post viewing?

Alan, the Heathrow break-in is rather peripheral. Nobody knows if it was really connected to the bombing or not. It’s certainly not necessary for the Heathrow loading – Heathrow airside leaked like a seive. It’s not a question of “that’s impossible nobody could have penetrated airside – oh look there was this break-in.” So the fact that there was a break-in is interesting, but not central to the case.

What is more interesting now is why the statements relating to the break-in were filed as being of no possible interest to anyone, on 2nd February 1989, and never looked at again. It’s a damning indictment of how seriously they were considering an airside penetration at Heathrow as a possible cause of the disaster, only six weeks after the plane came down.

The showing was poorly attended because it was put on at very short notice. A jury-rigged set-up in a committee room was used, with poor sound and the picture confined to a square in the middle of the screen with aspect ratio problems. I got the feeling most of the attendees were journalists, interns, the press and various Justice for Megrahi hangers-on.

Alan, the showing was organised by Christine Grahame. I’m not quite sure what the object of the exercise was other than to give publicity to Al Jazeera’s film (not that I’m saying that was a bad thing), but in the event it provided Jim Swire with a platform to tell the press he and other relatives of Lockerbie victims intend to apply to the SCCRC for a third appeal.

Regarding Heathrow, everyone concerned agreed that once airside, anyone could go wherever they liked and place suitcases wherever they liked. It was also a fact that there were hundreds of security passes missing, maybe as much as a couple of thousand. When Bedford was asked who could have put a suitcase in the container he said, “anyone who worked at the airport”.

Another point is that Iran Air had an operation in Terminal 3 as well, as far as I know. I don’t think they were one of the companies who had a station in the interline shed, but their employees would have had access.

It’s not impossible that the breadk-in was for the purpose of getting the booby-trapped suitcase airside and hidden somewhere, to prevent the actual bomber from having to get through security carrying the thing. It’s also possible it was just a coincidence and had nothing to do with the disaster, with the bomb suitcase being carried airside in some other way.

@Morag –

‘What do you think it must be like over the dinner table in the Fraser household?’

Would you mind passing the salt?

F*** the salt. What about the White Paper?