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Say hello, wave goodbye

Posted on May 09, 2014 by

David Cameron tells the nation on this morning’s BBC News that the Conservatives are the party for those who want Britain out of the EU.

Curiously, in England this statement is meant as a vote-winner. Each to their own.

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    134 to “Say hello, wave goodbye”

    1. bunter says:

      Insular, parochial and inward looking little Englander attitude.

    2. Ken500 says:

      When’s the EU Referendum? After the Independence Referendum?

    3. sionnach says:

      So he wants to stay in, but he’s going to negotiate a “better deal” with Europe, then put it to us for approval with an “in/out” question. If we say “out”, surely that’s a vote of No Confidence?

    4. Robert Kerr says:

      Mr Cameron must tell us what the Tory contingency plan is for a OUT vote.

      It is the Tory party who are giving the country the choice. No Tory party, no out of Europe.

      So, please Mr Cameron, what shall you propose as policy for the Tory party in the situation that the people vote OUT?

      We must be told! Before September if possible.

    5. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

      The EU sends back to Scotland a small proportion of the money we send to London. If the UK leaves the EU and Scotland is still stuck with Westminster I wonder what will happen to that money…

    6. galamcennalath says:

      Who is he kidding? Is the rest of Europe going to renegotiate special terms for the UK. He’ll be told to bugger off. Then, having painted himself and this party and the UK into a corner, he will have no choice but to call the referendum backing a pull out.

      Either way we vote I n September it does effect Scotland. With a Yes, we could end up with a land border to a country outside the EU! With a No we could be forced out against our will.

    7. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah hope there,s a good Berry Harvest this year, cause

      there,s a lotta Jam needed fur Tommorrow.

      In out shake it all about,am sick of the Hokey Kokey

      Viena roll anyone.

    8. jacksloan2013 says:

      Cameron has also said this morning he will not quit if Scotland votes for Independence. “Its not about my future, its about Scotland’s future.”

      It is almost as if he washes his hands of the existing, continuing UK.
      Unfortunately, if we vote no, he certainly remains part of our future in Scotland.

    9. Macart says:

      Well he couldn’t have made that much clearer could he?

    10. The Man in the Jar says:

      Separatists! We need details. What will a Europe free UK look like. What about my pension? Bla Bla Bla!

      To me this is as bad as Cameron’s speech where he actually boasted that “The UK has the 4th highest defence budget in the developed world”

      This has got to end!

    11. Lanarkist says:

      I wonder how this statement went down with the bankers and multi-national corporations who make up the majority of those who bankroll the Conservative party.

      Yet another Janus statement in an attempt to shore up their leaking of votes to Ukip.

    12. Liquid Lenny says:

      Maybe a psychologist can do a study, but is it because the English are themselves Illegal immigrants into Britain that they are so anti-immigration?

    13. geeo says:

      So gutted.

      If he had said vote Yes in September and i shall resign, we could have started the party tomorrow….

      As for EU hokey cokey…he is all over the place just to try chase UKIP from the door.

    14. Vronsky says:

      So north of the border he threatens an exit from the EU but south of it he promises an exit. Hope he doesn’t get confused and make himself look silly.

    15. David McCann says:

      We badly need these stories from Wings, Bella etc reaching the public at large.
      Having spent two hours canvassing last evening in the pouring rain, I know from first hand that lots of people out there need to hear the truth from a different source than the MSM

      Decent results, but we need the undecided to be better informed.

      OT. Slow start to the crowd funding for Scotlnd Yet film project, with only 78 funders so far.
      Come on Wingers, we can do better than this!
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scotland-yet-post-production-and-distribution

    16. Ken500 says:

      If Cameron supports a No vote in an EU Referendum, he will no longer be the Leader of the Tory Party. A loser.

    17. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      David Cameron is trying to distance himself from the outcome of a YES vote:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27339515

      A couple of proposal:

      i) Start a “Vote YES to fire Cameron” movement!

      ii) Someone make a “Downfall” video of Cameron around this issue. That could easily go viral!

    18. Les Wilson says:

      No doubt at least on the face of it, the Tories are becoming more anti European.

      Truth is, it is just because they are shitting themselves at the rise of UKIP.

    19. MochaChoca says:

      Wouldn’t it be funny if the EU turned round and said of course you can have a referendum, but we’ll not pre-negotiate.

    20. galamcennalath says:

      @Liquid Lenny

      Aye, when you think about it, Britain has never been the same since all those Anglo Saxon immigrants came in.

    21. MolliBlum says:

      Great timing! It’s Europe Day today, and David Cameron has just spelled out to every EU citizen in Scotland why it is crucial to vote Yes. 🙂

    22. MochaChoca says:

      When unionist politicians are interviewed about Scotland’s part in the EU elections or the in/out ref I keep thinking, any minute now they’re going to ask what happens if Scotland votes to stay in and rUK votes to leave.

    23. Macart says:

      Personally I’m just waiting for the first joker from any Westminster party come knocking on my door and looking for my vote. The same pricks who spend an inordinate amount of time telling us what we can’t do, can’t afford and aren’t capable of, looking for our votes in an EU they can’t wait to either shaft or leave?

      I don’t effing think so. Looking forward to the odd doorstep discussion. 🙂

    24. gordoz says:

      UKIP stating on GMS State Broadcaster radio this morning that ‘UKIP are on 18% in Scotland’ and not challenged is this true ??

    25. CameronB says:

      Judging by recent mock talks, the Europeans will be delighted to see the back of rUK.

      Personally I think Britain went to the dogs, when it let in all those Norman skinheads. Bloody feudal Manorialism and the English state. It’s been downhill ever since.

    26. Chic McGregor says:

      The irony is, England needs to be in Europe much more than Scotland does.

      In terms of energy resource and food production, if it came to the crunch, if trade ground to a halt and nations became isolationist, Scotland would be OK, wouldn’t be pleasant, but survivable. England does not enjoy that kind of eco-security.

      Europe as a whole just about produces enough food to feed itself, but if the rUK leaves it and the World does go tits up?… god help them.

    27. fairiefromtheearth says:

      The EU lol another coastly union. it amazes me how many are taken in by scammers i will gladly give anybody pennies back on their pound any takers?

    28. galamcennalath says:

      Cameron says he won’t resign if there’s a Yes win. He won’t get the chance, his chums will sack him! You can’t be PM of the United Kingdom and lose almost half the kingdom on your watch, then continue in office.

    29. Gillie says:

      Here is a long range forecast for the 2015 UK general election based on current polls and historical polls, and votes.

      http://users.ox.ac.uk/~nuff0084/ge15forecast/

      Forecast

      Tories – 310 seats

      Labour – 283 seats

      Lib Dems – 29 seats

      Others – 28 seats

      Tories will be 16 short of an outright majority.

      Labour will be 43 short of forming a government.

      Whilst the Tories can continue with a Coalition with the Lib Dems, Labour will not be able to form any sort of coalition.

    30. fairiefromtheearth says:

      oh and the EU and referendums they LOVE to hold them as a matter of fact they will keep holding referendums till they get a yes vote, it happened in Ireland Spain and a few other places.

    31. handclapping says:

      Slightly O/T
      Irish bond yields lower than the UK.

      Did alixamon have something in mind with his arc of prosperity? They are richer than us; they broke from the UK; their interest rates are lower than the UK; they are minnows with no “clout” but they could search for a missing plane in their zone of the Atlantic; they are in the EU; they have a land border with the UK.

      Why would anybody vote No?

    32. John G says:

      In the same interview he also had the brass neck to say that he was “pro TV debates” and how he had made these happen in the past. Why does nobody then ask him why he won’t debate on TV about independence. Oh, that’s right, because Scotland isn’t important enough to mention, or ask about.
      He must think that North. Britain is already not getting the BBC and we can’t put two and two together about the pish he spouts!!

    33. wingman 2020 says:

      The UK trying to leave the EU would be the biggest mess in peacetime history.

      Just imagine for arguments sake that its a no in the referendum. And a UK ‘Yes’ to exit the EU.

      Imagine, you want to continue as an EU citizen. What is to stop you applying to Brussels to stay in Europe as an individual? Of course, physically, I am going to remain as a permanent resident of the UK, but as an EU citizen… the same as the Polish and Spanish guy I work with.

      I suppose the EU could allow you to continue your citizenship despite the fact that it was originally based on UK membership.

      The UK will not expel all the EU people here. They would have to be given reasonable time and options… They’d automatically be allowed to become UK citizens on the basis that they’d already settled here. Or they’d stay citizens of the EU (whichever country) with indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

      Its is going to be very interesting, thats for sure.

      Best thing to scupper it all…. will be a big YES in September.

    34. CameronB says:

      Judging by those same mock talks, the continentals do not want to budge on EU renegotiation. The conference was organised by Euro-skeptics, so the invite list may have been a factor.

    35. caz-m says:

      The UKIP Scottish candidate has said if he wins one of the Scottish seats he will NOT go to Brussels to represent Scotland.

      That is why we must vote for the SNP candidates in the Euro elections. Not based on whether you like or dis-like the SNP, but based on the fact that they will be the only Pro-Independence Party.

      A vote for Labour in the Euro elections would enable them to put up as many barriers as possible to stop Scotland becoming a full EU member.

      The Scottish Unionist Parties have already said they agree with Barroso, that Scotland becoming a full EU member may be impossible.

      Vote SNP in the Euro elections to give us a stronger voice in any membership negotiations.

    36. fairiefromtheearth says:

      and im not a racist or anything else ist,LET THEM IN let them all bloody in dont bother me 😉

    37. Vestas says:

      The tories are terrified now – their internal polling is showing that they aren’t going to get the tory vote back from UKIP in the General Election. Around 45% of the (ex-tory) voters polled indicate that they have no intention of voting Tory again while Cameron & Osborne are “in charge”.

      I guess alienating roughly half of your party membership by calling them “swivel-eyed closet racists” wasn’t so smart Dave old boy?

      So I guess Davey boy is secretly praying for a Yes vote because it really is his only chance of being re-elected in 2015. Oh and yes I know the historical stats. However after Labour’s 13 years of gerrymandering in E&W he has no hope of an outright majority if Scotland return the usual number of SLAB troughers.

      You should all be hoping for a landslide UKIP vote in E&W come May 22 as it can only help come September.

    38. Edulis says:

      O/T BBC Scotland Radio (digital version) has gone over entirely to the Scotland v England one day cricket match in Aberdeen. Thankfully we miss Fred MacAulay but what about Brian’s Big Debate? Looks like I will have to spend lunch time in the car to catch it on analogue.

    39. Horseboy says:

      Found this online radio:

      Pro-Scottish Independence Online Radio Station.

      “18.9IndyScotRadio”.

      OnAir 24/7 broadcasts on a 3hour LOOP, and LIVE during office hours with LIVE CHAT BOX!

      http://www.indyscotradio.org/#!live/c1em5
      http://www.indyscotradio.org

      ps. more grist to the mill!

    40. rab_the_doubter says:

      Ok, let me get this straight.

      David Cameron will debate in public with Nigel Farage, unelected leader of a single issue racist supported party with No MPs, a party which in effect is the other face of Cameron’s brand of Conservatism, yet he refuses to debate with Alex Salmond, the democratically elected leader of the one party in Britain which is consistent about its relationship with Europe, a party which wants continued representation in Europe.

      Democracy in action?

    41. Davie Park says:

      Wrong tactics, Macart. Detain them as long as you can. Let them think that, with a bit of persuasion, your vote is there for the taking. Keep them on the hook for as long as you can… then casually, almost absent-mindedly, unzip your cardigan to reveal your ‘Yes’ t-shirt. Or raise a pensive finger to your chin and lo!, your ‘Yes’ wristband in all it’s ‘f*ck you’ glory!

    42. Grouse Beater says:

      What would England’s political and cultural imperialism do without television companies to promote and endorse it?

      “BBC Scotland – Cultural Tollbooth”
      grousebeater.wordpress

    43. ianbeag says:

      O/T A prompt to the continuing generosity of Wings followers to support a very deserving cause – the YES shop in the centre of Stirling. The appeal needs a push to reach the target and help Andy and Mel who have privately funded this initiative.
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-scotland-vote-yes#home

    44. Roger Mexico says:

      gordoz says:

      UKIP stating on GMS State Broadcaster radio this morning that ‘UKIP are on 18% in Scotland’ and not challenged is this true ??

      The source seems to be this Herald article which says:

      But while polls in England give Ukip as much as 31% of the vote, in Scotland, where it still has no representation, its highest rating has been 18%, in a small-sample poll.

      Presumably it can as a small Scottish cross-break in a GB poll, though I haven’t noticed one that high. Their latest figures for the Euro elections in ‘proper’ Scottish polls are around 10%, though we haven’t had one for a few weeks.

    45. Garry Henderson says:

      @Caz-m

      The greens are also Pro-Indy I believe they will get a few votes in the Euro elections

    46. Macart says:

      @ Davie Park

      Something along those lines had occurred to me right enough. 😀 LOL

    47. TheItalianJob says:

      @ianbeag at 11.42am

      I contributed a couple of weeks ago when it was around £1000. It’s now at over £1800 so a bit to go yet. Seems to be making good progress week by week though.

    48. galamcennalath says:

      EU election. There are 6 seats. Currently that’s 2 SNP, 2 Lab, 1 Con, 1 Lib.

      I think the interest arises because it’s a reasonable assumption the Libs will lose their seat.

      Lab and Con seem static in polls, maybe Lab down a bit since last time. They will keep their seats, probably.

      Question is, who takes the Lib seat?

      I suspect most likely are the Greens, then SNP, then the dreaded UKIP.

      If either Greens or UKIP get above 10% then they probably get the seat. If SNP get 2011 type performance, they’ll take it.

      Surely UKIP can’t get 10%+ ?

    49. mato21 says:

      Edulis

      Go from AM to FM and you should get the big debate

    50. schrodingers cat says:

      labours solution to the eu is to do nothing, same as brown and blair. their refusal to grant a referendum on the eu is the reason the ukip vote is rising
      cameron had the option of an eu referendum 2years ago but voted against
      he now wants to renegotiate the uk’s position in the eu and then present the results in the referendum for people to vote yes on. except that pro europeans who dont support his staged withdrawl from the eu wont want to support this option, more importantly, cameron will also get to frame what no means, eg, complete withdrawl from the common market,trading zones etc, which even farage doesnt support. A yes/no referendum that no=one supports, you have got to hand it to cameron, clever politics

    51. The Man in the Jar says:

      A bit off topic but it is about “foreigners” I suppose.

      I came across this 12 min. Youtube video by accident. “The most complicated international borders in the world” It is very relevant and very much backs up Rev Stu`s previous posts regarding borders. Done with a bit of humour as well.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtLxZiiuaXs

    52. M_Bro says:

      I will be sending this to all my friends (EU citizens) living or studying in Scotland (I know quite a few), that will be voting in September. They will be delighted to know that if they vote No, their lives there will be compromised.

    53. caz-m says:

      Garry Henderson

      Good point Garry about the Greens in Europe. I suppose it’s down to who will greens get their vote from.

      Will they take them from Labour, Lib/Dems or the SNP.

      Ideally, you could have four SNP and two Greens.

      As I have said, we should get Pro-Independence Party’s representing us so we have as strong a voice as possible in Europe.

      After we become an Independent Country and a full member of the EU, then we can go back to Party lines.

      An Independent Scotland will have a lot more than six seats in Europe.

      Vote SNP/Greens in Euros and a big YES on 18th Sept.

    54. Papadox says:

      GA Ponsonby smells a rat regarding the A&E mis story.

      Over the last week the attacks on Scotland’s referendum have been coming fast and furious. The propaganda from the establishment is now concentrated and co ordinated much more effectively.

      The RAT PACK has been given pretty much a free hand and they are being covered by the smokescreen of UKIP, Farage, Nigeria and the skull crusher. We must keep focused and not allow ourselves to follow their red herrings. Remember divide and conquer that’s their game.

      I think they are now going to fight. THE END GAME IS ON.

    55. Gordon Smith says:

      Any reforms Cameron gets will be reforms every other state in the EU wants. He will claim it as his negotiated settlement, but he will get what the others do want , which is a slimmed down bureaucracy – all EU nations agree this.

    56. TheItalianJob says:

      @Papadox

      Brill. But so true. Let’s all keep our heads on this final assault.

    57. Jimbo says:

      Cameron is being a bit ambiguous here. If he does manage to negotiate Britain’s place in Europe, does that mean the referendum is off?

      He says he is confident he can renegotiate Britain’s place in Europe. I think the EU will tell him he’s onto hee-haw – and be glad to see the back of a little Englander run UK that was never prepared to fully integrate with the rest of Europe.

    58. Roger Mexico says:

      galamcennalath says:

      Question is, who takes the Lib seat?

      I suspect most likely are the Greens, then SNP, then the dreaded UKIP.

      All the polls so far have shown the SNP most likely to take the seat off the Lib Dems, but as I said we haven’t seem a Scottish poll taken in May yet. Effectively they need to (a) beat Labour and (b) get three times what UKIP get.

      UKIP could take a seat particularly as their voters say they are much more likely to vote than other supporters, but whether they take the sixth seat or pinch the Conservative’s one is difficult to predict. The 10% is from YouGov and ICM in the two most recent polls and if there is a low turnout in Scotland as there was in 2009 that could boost their chances. They also benefit from people voting for them purely to ‘get at’ the Tories.

      The Greens seem to be coming behind them in polls so far and seem unlikely to win anything, but may pick up in the last few weeks of the campaign

    59. Ananurhing says:

      Could be a central theme in the debate.

      Vote No. Cameron emerges stronger and triumphant.

      Vote Yes. He’ll have to resign.

      Do England a favour.
      Vote Yes.

    60. caz-m says:

      Papadox

      Totally agree,

      If you had read my email to STV/John Mackay last night regarding A&E scare stories, you would know I am always on their case.

      Stay focused.

    61. Robert Bryce says:

      If there is a yes vote in Sep (like I think there will be) then all hope of Cameron re-negotiating rUK membership is sunk.

      With Scotland already committed to the EU, they will simply hold their position and tell Mr Cameron to go fuck himself. Cameron will have his hand forced and rUK will vote to leave.

      Exactly what the Tories want 🙂 They can conveniently blame it on those pesky meddling Scots!

    62. scottish_skier says:

      Their latest figures for the Euro elections in ‘proper’ Scottish polls are around 10%, though we haven’t had one for a few weeks.

      There’s been one 10%, the others, 7%, 6%, 7% since Xmas.

      The 10% could simply be MoE. I’ve not seen a Scottish poll yet which gives them an MEP, although 4 isn’t lots to go on. Would need to get 10% and come ahead of the Tories in third place in Scotland to take a seat. An outside chance. They’re basically fighting with the Tories for an at most 2/10 strongly ‘British’ (in terms of natID) vote, being an English/British party.

    63. scottish_skier says:

      Ah RM, I see you’ve just said what I did.

    64. Luigi says:

      Funny how Cameron thinks that he can negotiate a “better deal” with Europe, but refused to negotiate a better deal with the people of Scotland (second question). As far as Scotland is concerned, it is all or nothing, in or out. With Europe, however, why separate when we can negotiate a better deal?

      And the real chances of a better deal with Europe? Slim to none, IMHO.

      I hope Europe tells him where to go. All or nothing, in or out. etc etc.

    65. HandandShrimp says:

      I have been surprised by how few EU election polls there have been in Scotland. There seems to have been quite a few in England, mostly generated by curiosity as to how high the Kippers have risen. I still can’t believe they are riding up around the 38% mark. Neither Milliband nor Cameron can take much comfort from that. As for the Liberals, they could end up with no MEPs at this rate.

    66. scottish_skier says:

      Anyway, there is distinct irony in the fact that a vote for UKIP (uk-wide) is in all probability a vote for an end to the UK.

      It’s not necessarily due to immigration, the EU etc, but that UKIP are extreme Tories as the MSM keep telling us.

      We’ve seen what happens in Scottish Y/N polls when you mention a Tory win in the UK; Yes goes up with polls showing a ‘likely’ majority. Well, ~50% of the rUK (largely England) vote should go to the Tories/UKIP later this month. UKGE polling has similar levels. Will be very hard for Scottish Labour to polish that turd.

    67. heedtracker says:

      So same UKOK Prime Minister that said Non to devo max ballot option for Scotland referendum Sept 2014, now wants UKOK devo max option from Brussels. You really cant make this kind of shit up.

      What will Con/Dems renegotiate out of the EU anyway?

      What does Farage want? No more immigrants from the EU into the UK. Lets ask teamGB main propaganda outfit and lets blame the people of Bulgaria and Romania too.
      In summary, England is leaving the European Union.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25237742
      Freedom of movement is a fundamental right in the EU. But the UK and some other countries are concerned about the existing rules, as Bulgaria and Romania will get full access to the EU labour market in January.

    68. HandandShrimp says:

      I think the person likely to be the next President has already said that Cameron is onto plums with regards re-opening the treaties. So he will not have a renegotiated treaty to offer. Will he still offer an in out if there is nothing on offer from the EU?

      I still can’t see the CBI allowing the Tories to conduct this referendum.

    69. Marker Post says:

      @Rev, surely it is “each to his own”?

      In any event, these euro elections are going to be very interesting indeed.

    70. Lesley-Anne says:

      Let me see if I have this right.

      According to that very nice man, Mr Cameron, if we want OUT the E.U. then we must vote for the Tories who are a party who want to stay IN the E.U. So does this mean that if we want to stay IN the E.U. we must vote for UKIP who want to come OUT the E.U.? 😛

    71. Tam Jardine says:

      I can’t see UKIP gaining a seat up here. The tories labelled vote no on the ballet paper will consolidate their position I think, tapping into the diehard unionist vote. They took about 5.5% last time with the BNP on about 2.5 and I can’t see any kind of surge up here.

    72. caz-m says:

      Robert Bryce
      “If there is a yes vote”

      “If” ???

      There is no “If” in a YES, only a “When”

      lol.

    73. SheepOnFire says:

      LABOUR IN AD BLUNDER:
      UK Labour Party’s attempt to mock the coalition in poster backfires!

      The Labour Party’s latest election campaign poster widely mocked for not making any sense!

      “Labour Poster Attacks VAT Rise On Food, But You Don’t Pay VAT On Food”

      huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/09/labour-election-poster-vat_n_5293731.html?nci

      ps. UK Labour are and always been dangerously incompetent.

    74. Jimbo says:

      Cameron is full of mince. He knows there will be no referendum on the EU. He thinks that no-one else is capable of working out that he’s using the threat of a referendum to try and get concessions for the UK from the EU as a way to stop Tory votes flowing to UKIP/BNP.

      Everyone in Scotland knows he’s bluffing, everyone in the EU knows he’s bluffing – Cameron seems to be under the impression that we’re all gullible and can be easily duped by the wide-boys in Westminster.

      When the EU tells him to get lost he’s going to have to do a Gordon Brown and cancel the referendum with some kind of mealy-mouthed U-turn.

    75. scottish_skier says:

      Well, EU citizens for independence will be chuffed.

      My EU friends and colleagues were more tending to No back in 2011/12 as they worried about the EU. Largely all Yes now since the rise of UKIP and the Tory EU referendum.

      Cheers Dave and Nigel. Much appreciated.

    76. schrodingers cat says:

      “Cameron is onto plums with regards re-opening the treaties”

      probably true, i dont see how cameron has a leg to stand on wrt bringing back powers to the uk
      but even if he gain a single consession on something trivial, like legislating for air guns, he will produce a 640 page white paper called “ruk’s Future” where he will bum it up and make out it is the best thing since sliced bread, the electorate wont know either way

    77. Ananurhing says:

      UKIP triumph this month.

      Yes victory September.

      Cameron resigns.

      EU referendum circumvented.

      Disgusted from Tonbridge Wells becomes very cross indeed.

      Nigel holds the balance of power 2015.

      Core Tory Vote. The haemorrhage that keeps on giving.

    78. faolie says:

      Cameron is appealing to the UKIP voters and Lab & Libs who want a referendum directly – ie, if we don’t get in in 2015 you can wave goodbye to your referendum. Which is why all the UKIP voters will return to the fold after voting UKIP in the Euros.

      Subtract from the mix the loss of opposition MPs from Scotland and Cameron’s got his best chance of an outright majority in 2015.

      Or rather the Tories have their best chance of a majority as there’s no guarantee that Davie will keep his job after a UKIP Euro massacre and the loss of Scotland. And guess who’s waiting in the wings for that to happen?

    79. Peter Macbeastie says:

      The media frenzy around wee Nigel and the accompanying panic from the Tories (and Labour, but particularly the Tories) has given them prominence their true position simply does not deserve. There is every chance the reality of the European elections will return a broadly similar result to the last time.

      I confess, I do not really understand the d’Hondt method of elections. I know the last elections showed a large increase in the number of SNP votes but ended up with exactly the same mix of MEP’s as before. Bit like Glasgow City Council elections and Labour councillors in that regard. But to suggest UKIP will advance enough to take a seat strikes me as media driven fantasy. He is about as popular as piles at the festival of farts in Scotland.

      I would point out that final line should be credited to Kevin Bloody Wilson 🙂 Very apt for how welcome the man with the humourous surname (in Malaysia) actually is.

    80. misteralz says:

      The Man In The Jar – Cool video, like it very much.

      I had the pleasure of visiting Baarle-Nassau a few weeks ago during a road trip around Europe in my ‘fun car’. Met up with a couple of friends there, had lunch, caught up, the usual. It’s a very cool little town, and the details like the ‘flagged’ house numbers are fantastic. Also, by BT’s logic, it should be bereft of anything in its race to the bottom competition with the umpteen countries within it. It’s anything but – it’s properly bustling. Part of it might be down to the tourist attraction element, but a lot of it is down to the cross-border trade possible entirely because of the different laws and tax regimes in the two countries. There are lots of shops selling fireworks, and lots selling massive tubs of baccy. The petrol stations are in the Belgian parts, because their tax is lower and they sell 98 as well. I loved Baarle-Nassau.

      To be fair, I loved my entire European road trip very, very much. Just spending a week over there makes you realise how much better their standard of living is, and that’s before you actually speak to people there. I’d love to head over with some undecideds. There’s probably a really good article in there somewhere. But seriously, any time spent in Europe causes you to see just how myopic the BT lot are.

    81. Desimond says:

      Is it just me who thinks there is no way there is 10% let alone 18% of Scots stupid enough to vote for UKIP? The idea of a “protest vote against the Tories” is also defunct, that idea went out of peoples mind, along with the Tories themselves years ago.

      We are totally different and UKIP have no place here, the name says it all. I see nothing to fear but fear itself from Mr Farage with the Garage.

    82. Papadox says:

      The Labour Party never tire of telling us they created the NHS it’s the jewel in their crown, and rightly so.

      However as they now help their friends the Tories to dismantle the NHS (rUK) I feel they should be ashamed of themselves and hang their head in shame. The SG have tried their best, with some success to advance the Scottish NHS and protect it from the ravages of the unionist onslaught .

      Watch the video on mungins republic by dr. Philippe Whitford.

    83. Roger Mexico says:

      I always have to point out in these threads that in actual fact there is very little evidence that the UK (with or without Scotland) would actually vote to leave the EU. Indeed it’s a paradox that, even as UKIP have been rising in the polls the YouGov tracker on the referendum has been showing a consistent slight victory for staying in for the first time since the General Election.

      What seems to happen is that many voters are in favour of leaving the EU until they actually have to think about it, which the higher profile of UKIP has forced them to do. This is of course before they even have to look at the alternatives if the UK did leave – and there are a lot of undecided voters.

      And this is before you even consider the possibility of a Cameron ‘renegotiation’. If he did get the chance to come back from Brussels waving an embarrassingly small fig leaf, the polls show Tory voters would swing behind him and any referendum would be won by a wide margin (see later in the YouGov file above). As others have pointed out, there’s no way in which he would be allowed to say “Right lads, we’re off” so staying in would be assured

    84. Horseboy says:

      Bella has put up link to:

      “Indy Scot Radio 18.9”

      indyscotradio.org/#!live/c1em5

    85. Caroline Corfield says:

      very late into the debate here, but I agree with CameronB it all went downhill after Alfred the Great in England.

    86. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @v Liquid Lenny 11am

      That is a cracking soubriquet for David Cameron

      Hugh Janus

    87. Desimond says:

      @Xander

      SSS…oh that statement was a fine heartening read, thanks for sharing.

    88. Anne says:

      I have voted already as I have a postal vote and have given my support to the greens this time. A hitherto loyal Lib Dem voter I will never vote for them again. It interested me that the ballot paper had many competing anti EU parties, so I am hoping that the SNP and the greens come out well.
      And I completely agree with the other wingers who emphasize the need to share key information with voters who are still on the fence or leaning towards no. We need to get the message across that a vote for no is not a vote for the status quo. Indeed that future would be bleak – no EU, dismantled NHS, poorer educational provision and the albatross of son of Trident.

    89. Desimond says:

      Just thinking that this would make for a great Monty Python inspired cartoon.

      While Dave and his Chums(Danny etc) are mockingly shouting about Hamsters and Elderberries down to Farage over the drawbridge, at the rear of the castle there’s our Alex and Nicola striding off with the Crown jewels of Oil and Whisky.

    90. scottish_skier says:

      What seems to happen is that many voters are in favour of leaving the EU until they actually have to think about it, which the higher profile of UKIP has forced them to do.

      Yes, I’ve noticed that too.

      Interestingly, in Scotland, the opposite seems to be happening re leaving the UK, i.e. the polls closing as people take time to think about it. Also reflected in those who say they are more informed being more pro-Yes.

    91. SheepOnFire says:

      LABOUR IN AD BLUNDER

      UK Labour Party’s attempt to mock the coalition in poster backfires
      The Labour Party’s latest election campaign poster has been widely mocked for not making any sense.

      “Labour Poster Attacks VAT Rise On Food, But You Don’t Pay VAT On Food”

      huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/09/labour-election-poster-vat_n_5293731.html?nci

      ps. UK Labour have always been dangerous and incompetent!

    92. Roger Mexico says:

      Ananurhing says:

      Could be a central theme in the debate.

      Vote No. Cameron emerges stronger and triumphant.

      Vote Yes. He’ll have to resign

      Except that he’s already said that he won’t resign in those circumstances.

      What is more even the people of Scotland (not normally his biggest fans) don’t think he should:

      In the event of a Yes vote in the referendum and Scotland beginning the negotiating process to become an independent country, should David Cameron resign as Prime Minister of the UK

      Yes, he should resign 26%

      No, he should not resign 39%

      It depends on the size of the margin of defeat 15%

      Don’t know 20%

      For what it’s worth they’re similarly forgiving of Salmond after a ‘No’ vote:

      Yes, he should resign 35%

      No, he should not resign 40%

      It depends on the size of the margin of defeat 14%

      Don’t know 11%

    93. scottish_skier says:

      WhatScotlandthinks poll of polls showing the significant closure since October 2013. ~24 points gap down 14 to 10 points. 5% swing needed for parity (exc DK). This is very conservative as it includes outliers such as Yougov and MORI.

      http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Slide1.jpg

    94. scottish_skier says:

      I don’t think Cameron should resign if it’s a Yes for the very reasons he gave. Likewise no idea why Salmond should if it’s a no.

      The referendum is not a vote on the relative performance of current administrations. That’s what UK and Scottish elections are for.

    95. HandandShrimp says:

      It goes without saying that we all do need to go out and vote…be it Green, SNP, SSP, or pro-indy independents. We need to ensure that the pro Union parties have as little succour as possible. The turnout as ever will struggle to tip 40% but we should stir our stumps and head to the polling stations.

    96. HandandShrimp says:

      Likewise I can see no point in Cameron resigning. What about Millibland? His people are as much part of the No campaign as Cameron.

      The vote will be what the vote will be. I can’t see the point of any leader resigning over the result. There is an election 6 months later anyway.

      I can’t recall any leader resigning over any of the other referendum results.

    97. Ananurhing says:

      Roger Mexico

      I think when push comes to shove, whether he stays or goes will have little to do with him or us.

      What I’m picking up is that core Tory voters in SE are distinctly unimpressed with Cameron. I’m expecting to see them wearing ” I agree with Obama” T shirts next year. i.e. “He’s a lightweight”.

    98. manandboy says:

      http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/05/09/you-and-whose-army/#comment-16404

      Derek is well worth a read today

      providing some heavy ammunition against BT’s attacks

      on Scottish Defence.

    99. Cath says:

      I find the EU referendum very odd. I think, in their abject ignorance of Scotland, some politicians down south are trying to emulate what they *think* Salmond is doing. They honestly believe he doesn’t really want independence, but wants a better deal and more powers, and that by forcing a straight yes/no referendum they were “calling his bluff” and he’d back down, and if he didn’t NO would win easily.

      And they appear to be trying something similar with the EU – lets hold the threat of a referendum over them and they’ll bend over and give us what we want so we can then hold the referendum but be on the pro-EU side.

      Except they’ve fundamentally mis-read the situation in Scotland and, I believe, in the EU. Salmond has always been pro-independence, pro a referendum for independence, and inevitably on the Yes side for independence. The SNP now has a lot of support in Scotland, so the referendum has happened. Even if they’d put forward the best devo-max settlement in the world and put it on the ballot paper, Salmond, the SNP and independence movement would *still* have been fighting on the independence side, even if they knew they’d likely lose.

      By contrast, look at the abject muddle of “we’ll definitely hold an in/our referendum but we can’t tell you what side we’ll be on yet – it depends if the EU meets our demands. If they do we’ll be on the in side, if they don’t we…well, we might be on the out side, but we might just be saying that as a threat….”

      It’s looks like attempting to emulate what they think a very good politician is doing, while failing to understand what makes him good, or what he’s doing.

    100. call me dave says:

      BBC Website:
      Johnston Press revenues in the 17 weeks to 26 April were hit by lower circulation and print advertising revenue

      Johnston disposes of Irish titles

      Johnston Press reports £287m loss

      Lenders ease Johnston Press pressure

      Newspaper and online publisher Johnston Press has unveiled a £360m refinancing plan in a bid to pay off debt and fund future growth.

      The Edinburgh-based company aims to raise £140m through share issues and placings and issue £220m worth of bonds.

      In December Johnston’s lenders agreed to give the company more time to repay its £300m debt.

      The move allowed it to pursue a refinancing of its debt facilities.

      Following the refinancing announcement, shares in the company fell 25% to 17.53 pence in early trading,

      Johnston runs more than 200 regional papers across the country, including titles such as The Scotsman and the Yorkshire Post.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27340529

    101. hetty says:

      O/T

      The Artist Taxi Driver on youtube…this is particularly good, on a recent announcement by Osbourne to celebrate ‘made in britain’ day! And by Britain, they really mean England surely.

      Made in Britain (Selling ourselves to the world) This is the title, you will have to type it into your browser, worth a watch.

    102. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Xander

      Like Desimond I enjoyed the Scottish Secular Society`s article declaring for Yes.

      Written by Dr. Elliot Bulmer as well. Excellent stuff.

      Here it is again for those that missed it.

      http://scottishsecularsociety.com/sss-formally-supports-independence-for-scotland-and-the-yes-campaign/

    103. bunter says:

      Broons mug seems all over the state broadcaster today pontificating on the Nigeria story. Is he somehow particularly qualified on the subject, or is he getting a ”Farage” ahead of playing a prominent part in the NO campaign.

    104. HandandShrimp says:

      Bunter

      I think Brown has always had an interest in economic development and education in Africa so it is an area where he is probably better qualified to speak than many others (pensions in particular 😉 )

    105. Edward says:

      bunter – saw Brown being interviewed and being some how accredited with knowledge on terrorist kidnapping
      The interview took place at an economic forum.

      The media are a joke and should be questioning Browns knowledge of terrorist kidnapping as well as his so called economic prowess. As he know sod all about terrorist kidnapping and bugger all about economics!

    106. Nana Smith says:

      Anyone have any info on the Darling/Eadie debate in Edinburgh?

    107. Liquid Lenny says:

      Nana Smith

      Aye Darling blinked several thousand times and said the same tosh about Europe, the Pound etc, I wasn’t there but I bet Im not wrong!!!

    108. rab_the_doubter says:

      O/T
      http://scottishsecularsociety.com/sss-formally-supports-independence-for-scotland-and-the-yes-campaign/

      Good to see sane non-devisive people on our side. Its well worth checking out the counter on the page as well, currently sitting at about 98.5% of respondents think this is excellent / good.

    109. Macandroid says:

      Let me see if I have a grasp of the outcome of the Indy Referendum as it affects Labour, irrespective of the EU election results.

      YES

      – Labour South of the border are finished, for a long time anyway, until they move way to the right or left.

      – Labour North of the border are finished in their present guise and have to re-invent themselves as a party of the left.

      NO

      – Labour South of the border are finished for a long time as the Tories will have saved the Union.

      – Labour North of the border are finished once the NO voters realise what they have let themselves in for.

    110. YESGUY says:

      Sorry if this has been put up before, I am sending the link to everyone i can. It’s all i can do at the moment. This sums up the UK and it makes me feel ashamed. please watch

      http://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/

    111. rab_the_doubter says:

      Oops, sorry, didnt realise it had been posted by others

    112. bookie from hell says:

      Scottish Labour Party isn’t registered on electorial commission for YES,NO vote

      how bad,shameful is that?

    113. bunter says:

      Is it correct to say that there is no such thing as the Scottish Labour Party? I am sure I read somewhere that as far as the electoral commission are concerned it does not exist.

    114. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      On Twitter from the Sunday Herald.

      A big thank you gift to readers this weekend – Double sided poster of last week’s front page and editorial – On enhanced newsprint.

      https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/464750942546849792

    115. heedtracker says:

      It would worthwhile hearing the views of the very rich merchant banker that set up nob.orders.com last week, just to see if this grass roots my arse outfit believes in no borders, as long as there is borders at Dover.

      Same merchant banker behind nob.orders.com donated a lot of money to the Tory party and some other lucky far right types but this is ans interesting blog that looks at how corrupt the BBC ireally s and a few details about the money behind this grass roots farce.

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/05/bbc-propaganda-hits-new-all-time-low/

    116. Andy-B says:

      Imagine the scenario of a no vote in the referendum then combine this with the UK opting out of Europe, neither bears thinking about.

      O/T Rev, I do apologise.

      Meanwhile over at Tammnay Hall aka Glasgow City Council, the Labour run council under Gordon Matheson (who was caught with his trousers round his ankles, performing a sex act in public with another man), invited,leaders from eight of England’s largest cities,to speak yesterday in Glasgow to persuade you to vote no.

      http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/6589-gordon-matheson-apologises-as-sex-act-scandal-rocks-glasgow-labour

      Mr Matheson, who was under investigation at one point over missing cash in the George Square fiasco, said the intervention of leaders from Birmingham, Bristol,Leeds, Liverpool,Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield, was a powerful weapon against the separatists.

      The Secretary of State for Portsmouth, and not Scotland Alistair Carmichael,said he welcomed Gordon Matheson’s intervention.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22329100

      No link to this story which appeared in the London owned Daily Record. Finally the Scottish band Jethro Tull have come out in favour of the union, Daily Record article also.

    117. Sydthesnake says:

      YESGUY, very sad and also embarrassed after watching this video, Denis Curran is a marvel, real passion for his performance, and a gem of a guy

    118. seanair says:

      manandboy
      For a few days now I’ve not been able to connect with Derek’s blogsite, so I was glad to see your link. Still doesn’t work for me however. I thought the BBC had found a way to silence him, but it must be me doing something wrong. Anyone else having this difficulty?

    119. fluffnik says:

      Slightly O/T…

      It’s really, really important that we explain to our Green voting pals that the best way to get another Greens/EFA MEP and avoid rotten ‘kippers is to vote SNP.

      I had a tab with a really good illustration of how the seat distribution is done but I seem to have mislaid it…

    120. Liquid Lenny says:

      Whenever did Jethro Tull become a Scottish Band?

      Ok Isin Anderson was born in Dunfermline and attended primary School in Scotland before moving to Blackpool in 1959 apart from a spell being an absentee landlord in Skye he has lived in England most of his life and is currently living in the West Country.

      Also he had a go at Scots in his album Too old to Rock n Roll to young to die. If I remember correctly going back to the seventies here, the lyrics were “we don’t mean anybody any harm, we didn’t come off the Glasgow Train”

      Maybe wrong with that lyric but its was nearly 40 years ago I heard it…

    121. misteralz says:

      Fluffnik, if you could unmislay it that’d be ace. Happy to vote for either the SNP or the Greens, but don’t want to waste my vote.

    122. Jim Bo says:

      Not sure if this has been posted before but it might go some way to explain the feelings of certain people towards migrants.

      If you do a google image search for ‘daily express migrants’. Sorry couldn’t seem to make a link for a google image search.

    123. fluffnik says:

      I’ll keep looking…

      The D’Hondt method is used which means, basically, that the SNP need more than three times the vote of the third party to secure the third seat.

    124. fluffnik says:

      Here it is!

      Whilst there’s no real risk of UKIP getting a seat there’s no real chance of the Greens getting one either.

      Since the Greens and SNP are both in the Greens/EFA Group an SNP vote is the most Green thing Greens can do.

    125. YESGUY says:

      Sydthesnake, The men and women who work so hard to help our less fortunate are heroes in every way. I bet if you offered a medal they would say “thanks is enough”. At times I lose faith in my country (Scotland) but seeing these men and women fight gives me hope that we’re not completely doomed.

      But i know there are many who do not see this happening around them and ignore the evidence as drivel. It’s enough to make you weep. Foodbanks alone is the only reason I will vote YES. There are many more reasons i know but foodbanks in 21st century Scotland make me feel ashamed . Watching the video will no doubt do that to others too, and for the first time in my life my vote just might make a difference .

      Keep up the good work and keep spreading the word. I have never been involved in anything before, but the old soldier in me says enough. Time to take our country back and put Scots first. Lets start by making sure kids don’t go hungry. (sorry rant over.)

      Every day i go online to W.O.S and know i am not alone….. Its a nice feeling.

    126. Cath says:

      “Since the Greens and SNP are both in the Greens/EFA Group an SNP vote is the most Green thing Greens can do.”

      I’m an SNP/green and plumped for green as I assumed the 2 SNP seats are safe so it was more like a fight between green and UKIP. I’d love to see the SNP get 3 seats, but would also like to see the Greens gain, and hate to see UKIP gain one. Hope I haven’t done the wrong thing there 🙁

    127. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      To be honest I think you probably have. There is far more chance of the SNP getting a third seat than there is of the Greens taking one.

    128. Iain More says:

      I see UKIP only splitting the Tory vote so they in effect shoot each other in the head in Scotland. I think the Lib Dims and the Tories could both lose their seats especially if the SNP gets its vote out. I would have a laugh if the Tories and the Lib Dims both lost their seats.

    129. fluffnik says:

      Don’t beat yourself up Cath, we should still be on for 3 SNP/Greens/EFA MEPs…

      It won’t hurt to circulate that link like hypertext was going out of fashion though!

      🙂

    130. Mark Mitchell says:

      As an Irish citizen we shouldn’t support the EU just to simply counterbalance England and it may be painful for me saying this but farage is correct on one thing: you can’t have independence within the EU. True if you scots really want indpendence surely the EFTA is a better model to follow, granted you can have the trade benefits but at the same time accepting brussels rule is no different from your current situation e.g. all national budgets have to be approved by an unelected european commission does anyone true scottish independence activist really want to swap one master for another?

    131. Will Podmore says:

      Why does anyone, apart from big business, support the EU?
      Economically, it is no benefit to us. Britain’s membership of the EU has not increased our volume of trade with EU countries. In fact the proportion of trade Britain conducts with the EU has fallen since we joined the Common Market in 1973.
      Politically, the EU assists the most reactionary forces in the world. The EU backed NATO’s attacks on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. The British people forced Parliament to rule out an NATO-EU attack on Syria. Now the EU is prodding a fascist-led Ukraine into war against Russia.



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