Results just in
Posted on
August 25, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Total Carnage?
NAH!
PURE Total Carnage! ohhhhhh YES!
Hadokennnnnnn
I agree but the newspapers tomorrow will be telling people who won and they may not be telling the truth.
The been being the been will repeat it to death…..
Soooo happy right now 🙂 Their face are nippin them on Scotland 2014….pure dead brilliant
I hope Darling brought a hanky, he’ll need something to put his front teeth in after that kicking!
Beeb !
Maybe I was too cynical with my last post. The Guardian poll shows Salmond 79% Darling 21%
Why did he say he would go on to include Darling after a Yes if he’s just totalled the UK’s banking system, strange bedfellows indeed. Yes then far left.
Sorry OT – Sky managed to lose the Signal from their London studio to 8000 miles away in the dark region of uninhabited area of GLASGOW
I loved that game!
Miss the old days. Can we reinstate the Amiga and workbench as the standard in an iScotland?
Flipping flip! Even audience monstering Darling. Interesting poll results from Guardian/ICM link to theguardian.com
Stunning performance by Alex.
@ David Whannel
Because if you are winning you can afford to be generous; and thereby show how ungenerous the other side is, further strengthening your position with those who are only just coming onside.
It’s not you and me he needs to persuade, it’s those who are still making up their minds, or needing to realise this is their chance to get out of a failed UK Westminster system.
Ad Hominem.
Well Alex has had a lot of stick off these Labour for Tory spokespersons so.
My personal favourite was the lovely, unintimidated, confident and self assured woman who called Alistair Darling out on his speeches to pro privatisation health businesses.
The fourth Labour lying scumbag in so many days that has been called out in public — or was that also Alistair D. caught out on GMS last Tuesday Rev??? Every reader???
Darling didn’t even come second there. Disappointmented he never fainted.
AS has done his part now it is up to us and go out there and get more YES votes in the bag.
Indeed it was. 🙂
Now let’s take some the positive feelings from tonight out to all our undecided friends and family, and help push YES over the line on the 18th!
Darling didn’t even come second there. Disappointed he never fainted.
Poor wee soul Aladair Darling totally humped tonight.
This is the First Minister on form,totally destroying a stuttering,hapless back bench politician;not fit to lick AS’s boots.
Even the Daily Heil are saying the FM “crushed” Darling.
The biggest doing since Germany v Brazil.
@DavidWhannel
We have two ex chancellors of the exchequer in Scotland. Surely we should have one of them on the negotiating team for the simple reason that he will know where the bodies are buried.
The other alternative is Beaker and that just doesn’t bear thinking about.
More seriously Eck was being magnanimous while at the same time putting Darling on the spot which was quite clever. By refusing Darling looked petulant but the trap was by agreeing Darling would have looked as though he was conceding the referendum.
Up to us to go out there…is more like it.
Alex salmon owned alister darling tonite well done first minister
The best point of the evening went to one of the audience members, though.
“If we are better together, why aren’t we better now?”
Bwahahahahaha, ‘Haud Oan’. Darling trying to appeal to the common man.
Oh Jeez. 😀 LOL
No voter’s are nowhere to be seen tonight. It’s great. Well done Alex, let’s go and win this now everyone.
I am shaking after that.
Just had a whisky, now opened a beer, can’t sleep. That was a trouncing.
Excellent from Salmond tonight.
We’re going to win this.
Alex did it. He stepped up to the plate, gave us the vision thing but wrapped it in a Tory shaped brick and Darling walked right into it. Darling’s opening speech was replying to the speech they though Alex would make but didn’t and he looked like a pratt.
But probably better that than allowing Darling to go off piste and extemporise considering how he did doing that later on. Either the BBC actually got a balanced crowd in this time or Darling really riled them in various ways.
Ya beauty
This is what we wanted. Alec was brilliant. Makes you fair proud of him, keeping the heid whilst snow white floundered and talked rubbish.
As General Melchett put it:
“Don’t slouch Darling.”
Is that Duke Nukem? if so was irony intended LOL
best comment by far
SUPER SALMOND GOES BALLISTIC DARLING WAS ATROCIOUS!
Salmond absolutely eviscerated Darling. Loved the jeers and heckling he received for going on and on and on and on about the currency.
I can’t bloody wait to chap doors tomorrow!
Betting odds shorten on strength of Salmond performance.
Earlier today 9/2 YES, now 7/2 and falling
Oddschecker.
Bad attitude and posture of A. Darling being, as usual, on the defensive. He lost the argument repeating all the time the same thing, talking when A. Salmond was explaining some facts, and some of his say was contradictory. Mr. Salmond win and will guide us to independence…
@Alexicon
Be very interesting on the stump this week after that. I’ll be on a RIC stall and going back over a working class area and revisiting the undecideds. I love undecided conversations. I can see this week being a blast. Even the dentistry on Thurs afternoon.
Malcolm Stephen says:
I loved that game!
Miss the old days. Can we reinstate the Amiga and workbench as the standard in an iScotland?
I’ve still got an AGA1200 in the loft. Oh, how I miss the days of multi-tasking on a few hundred kb….. 😉
Darling has just totalled the No campaign.
People who vote NO now will only be lying to themselves.
Evev the ultra-unionist Huffington Post has a headline reading “Salmond fillets Darling…”
Something went right tonight and the Beeb never saw it coming…..
Massive fail by Pointy-Shouty-Currency-Fetish Man.
We repeatedly have Curtice pontificating about the polls although I find that he is an authority in stating the bleeding obvious and getting paid for it. Is there any record of him actually putting his reputation on the line and actually using his expertise to predict a result before it happens. What, for instance, did he predict in 2011 when the SNP swept to power?
Thought that the FM was well in command tonight but that the best points were made by members of the audience.
@ Muscleguy
We must know each other. Are you in Dundee too? I’m canvassing Menzieshill tomorrow.
Salmond won, but the BBC lost. Glenn Campbell’s chairing was diabolical; the way he let Darling hector and heckle Salmond during the “cross-examination” was just embarrassing.
Fortunately, I’d say it was counter-productive for BT – and the BBC.
@RandomSwitch says: 25 August, 2014 at 11:08 pm:
“My personal favourite was the lovely, unintimidated, confident and self assured woman who called Alistair Darling out on his speeches to pro privatisation health businesses.”
Aye! You an me baith! The Wifie was outstanding, articulate and very, very correct.
A master class in, statesmanship and putting your case forward. Darling was shown to be the inept politician, that he is. Alex wiped the floor with him, that is irrefutable.
It’s there for the taking, let’s grasp it; with both hands and never let go. Scotland: must, can and will; be free.
Salmond knocked it out of the park. Absolutely crushed Darling and stayed calm and collected while doing it.
I’m thrilled 😀
Alistair Darling’s arse meets plate, plate meets Alistair Darling’s arse, handed over to him by Alex Salmond on the night of August the 25th, 2014.
Havent seen it yet, but judging from a bitter comment left on facebook by a no voter lawyer friend, I can only assume every single person on the NO side is nursing a red raw buttocks tonight!
Did anyone see the Sky ‘heat map’ of Twitter activity in Scotland? Massive flashing pulses of light in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee & Aberdeen. Braemar? Not so much, lol. Sheep don’t tweet. Who knew?
@Muscleguy.
Good on you, go out and get them signed on the declaration to strengthen their resolve. I would even have a go at the soft nos.
Hope everyone else does the same.
Half an hour to go for Henry McCleish to declare for Yes if you believe the BT mannie.
Thank you Alex Salmond, thank you.
he has just given us the extra energy we were looking for to finally kill off this stinking Union.
And I hope that rUK see that this is not a fight with them but about democracy.
Wee spring in the step now. probably wont sleep for hours tonight.
O/T Scottish papers review BBC News channel 11.30pm.
And didn’t the BBC ‘people’ have their soor wee faces on after that….Ha! Ha! Ha! GIRFUYz!
Alexicon
I would include the No’s too.
Great showing from the First Minister.
Great comment from the wife seeing face book comments.
Just for pure humour Yes has to win!
Guardian editorial and their leader writers doing their level best to depict Salmond’s arguments as ‘romantic nationalism, and to convince readers everybody in the UK is ‘keen on saving the NHS.’
In that respect how different is the Guardian from the Mail?
I have believed for some time that the majority of people who go into that voting booth on the 18th know what the right thing to do is.
After tonight I believe the majority of people will do the right thing on the 18th.
I am feeling so positive after this debate…its electric…and seeing what is being said on facebook and twitter confirms for me, that we are actually going to win this.!!!!
Never mind Scottish Independence, Vote YES to get rid of BBC Scotland.
Oh, that sounds soooooooo good.
We repeatedly have Curtice pontificating about the polls
Hold on a minute! I would not know what to think were it not for crusty Curtis telling me.
my favourite bit ? god where do you start! I think it was the “yes camp telling scare stories” the jeers and heckles ! a Joy! Saddest part those poor pathetic individuals who carried on applauding and cheering Darling even when he repeatedly fluffed his lines! it reminded me of the debate where Sillars took apart his Labour opponent just prior to winning the Govan by election ( what was that guys name ? another one who sank into obscurity)I swear I saw a No woman with her head in her hands after Darling messed up another skirmish. Oh dear What a shame never mind!
Look at the front pages of tomorrows papers. This will not please the BT campaign and can only help us YESSERS.
Have a look at the Daily Mail, Daily Express, the English papers.
Well done Alex!
Needed a night like tonight….brilliant.
Even had a look at a BT facebook site, first time in yonks, just to see what the reaction is…very quiet, probably busy disentangling their frazzled brains, but one a…hole is urging them to ‘get out there and unleash hell to save the union!’
Now I won’t sleep tonight…..wooooo…scary…not!
Darling looked like a gibbering fool.
Just trying to flap his mouth constantly.
I think it was a tactic to try and kill the debate, but it just looked like he was flustering badly.
Even the audience seemed to have had enough of his negativity, and bleating on about currency.
Don’t think there will be a reasonable person in Scotland who thinks we won’t be using the pound now.
The Oil on the Clyde story has been gathering momentum for weeks so it was just a matter of time before it hit the debate and prime time TV.
Did subs sink Ardrossan oil boom dream?
SG to host meeting between industry and boffins to discuss exploration potential of western waters
PETROLEUM industry chiefs are to meet with scientists to discuss the potential for new offshore oil and gas discoveries in the Firth of Clyde.
‘The West of Scotland has been denied the opportunity of its own oil boom.’ – Kenny Gibson MSP.
The meeting hosted by the Scottish Government will put academics round the table with exploration companies to look into the possibility of tapping previously underexplored offshore areas to the west of Scotland including the Solway Firth, the North Channel, the Sea of the Hebrides as well as the Clyde estuary.
It comes after newspaper reports last year alleged that the Ministry of Defence stopped test drilling in the Firth of Clyde over fears it may interfere with the nuclear submarines based at Faslane.
Declassified UK Government documents from the 1980s showed that MoD chiefs blocked moves by BP to carry out drilling in the Firth of Clyde.
That was backed up by former Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine this year when he confirmed test drilling was blocked.
link to ardrossanherald.com
This is a huge issue for the whole area and scotland as a whole. We’re talking about real jobs desperately needed and a possibly vast amount of oil.
Big Cheesy Grin.
You guys had doubts?
Loved the comments rom the audience ..Better together ..why are we not better now.
Mr Darling looked very uncomfortable..Mr Salmond confident, knowledgable and spoke with passion. His comments back to the questions from the audience were delivered well.
Mr Darling was weak..his pal Mr Cameron will not be too pleased…Oh …Mr Darling is a labour man..is he? Lol
While I watched, I made a count of the number of flat-out lies Alistair Darling made. I got 48, though I might’ve let a few slide due to not actually knowing whether they’re true or not. By far the most profound is AGAINST the “we spend more than we get in” – this is broadcast to a UK audience, Darling, days after a vote showed 60% of English people already think Scots get too much money! Do you WANT more powers or not!?!
I’ll be doing a short write up on my blog on the lies, and will have them ready to debunk at the Yes Inverclyde shop.
biggpolmont
Bob Gillespie,another Labour intellectual heavyweight.
*AGAIN, sorry, in my excitement I changed tense.
Great pic btw – but how many people tuned in to a second debate after such a drab first debate, is my question?
alexicon says: 25 August, 2014 at 11:09 pm:
“AS has done his part now it is up to us and go out there and get more YES votes in the bag.”
I’m not going to bet on there being a great difference on doorsteps except for a wee spike towards YES. I’ll tell you why. I had watched the debate in my pal’s house and ,just after the debate finished, I walk the wee dog the long way as I headed home. I always have a tiny wee DAB radio in my pocket and tuned to Radio Scotland’s phone-in.
Some of the most idiotic folk in Scotland seem to have watched a totally different debate from the one I had watched and phoned the BBC. How on Earth can anyone still not know what currency an independent Scotland will use? They cannot even truthfully say they don’t know what the preferred option of a currency union is and what the option will be if the Kingdom of England government refuse a currency union.
So those numpties, (they seemed to be mainly NO or NO leaning DKs), are still looking for certain answers, have no idea what’s going on or are just too idiotic to understand any of it and they are not going to make their minds up between now and the ballot box – the only good point is that most of that dopey lot will probably not vote anyway.
Cos I’m happy…
That was a highly enjoyable evening.
Salmond, cool, composed and confident representing a cool and confident Scotland.
Darling alternating between haughty haranguing and blue funk incompetence representing Westminster.
What struck me is what the rest of the UK thought, especially on the NHS and also Darling’s stance on nukes seems to have changed since the eighties. Funny how BBC news channel had a full on vox pop in York and Carlisle before the debate but I couldn’t find a follow up afterwards.
Also, the Irish press seem to be coming out for a Salmond win. We all watched it live on the BBC over here…oh wait, countries that get independence from the UK can’t have the BBC, or open borders and surely couldn’t have pegged the Punt to the pound.
I also had to laugh at his slagging of Iceland an Ireland…both of which are doing better than the UK. Darling came over as a rather nasty wee man.
Terrific performance tonight from Alex Salmond. He stepped up to the plate and delivered.
And do you know what was pure dead briliant on his part and just nailed it? Right at the end, where he said that in a newly-independent Scotland, its negotiating team with the rUK could and would include the likes of Alistair Darling himself. A superb example of mature politcing by Salmond. It obviously caught out Darling as all he could was stand there with a red face and embarrassed smile.
BBC debate all over UK was the one to win,MSM
and postal votes out tomorrow
great timing
Taranaich
Asked this before,do you have a Landrover 90?
Only asking because if not,you’ve got a double in Perthshire.
Standing outside the PA in Dunkeld,in May,seen you but wasn’t sure.
Great post on the Guardian’s comments thread.
“Daily Record – Blow for Salmond as he only scores 71%”
This was the one to win. Almost as if he lulled them into a false sense of security with the first debate on purpose. But I’m sure it wasn’t that, it was a case of having a bad day. But then a case of really learning from it.
My 17 year old’s verdict on the first debate was that even though Salmond did badly, just bringing the issues into the light of day means people move to Yes.
In this one, where he was very clear and persuasive, that outcome is likely to be magnified.
It’s not that the debate swings votes either way. It’s that they are part of the much broader canvassing process of getting people to think about the issues and make up their own minds rather than simply accept what they’ve been told. And that means movement to Yes.
Well that’s Darling put to bed wi a skelpit erse and nae supper, nighty night Alistare.
Talking about Game Changers if that was Bingo or Poker oor Alex had a full house. Vote Yes.
Alistair greeting face
bye bye
Darling totally slaughtered.
First Minister back on form.
Onward to victory.
Dal riata,
Wholly agree with you. The point about his negotiating team was just excellent.
Fantastic. Better together campaign just died tonight.
@west_lothian_questioner says:25 August, 2014 at 11:20 pm
“Evev the ultra-unionist Huffington Post has a headline reading “Salmond fillets Darling…”
Something went right tonight and the Beeb never saw it coming…..
Perhaps the YESSERS have got the message that if they tell the BEEB they are YES voters their chances of getting into the audience are reduced. They might have been false ticket Yessers.
All we need now is a good Murphy video for tomorrow night’s viewing.
It’s getting better by the day folks.
Going tae pish masel noo.
Murdo Fraser.Asked about the grassroots movement…tried to create one in Perthshire.
ROTFLMAO.
ood analysis over on Newsnet Scotland
link to newsnetscotland.com
Salmond:
“If we are better together if we vote No, why aren’t we better together already?
Well at least it’s official and we got it from the horse’s mouth A Darling we can use the pound and as for the lady who pointed out that A Darling was doing after dinner speech’s for the private health care providers, I would just like to say to her well done and he got £10,000 pounds for that and a free meal but remember we are all in it together.
BBC debate between AS and AD coming on in 1 minute.
Are you ready to watch it again!
Also on STV – maximum coverage – brilliant
and on I player in case you missed it.
Grouse Beater
Was that you in the audience that asked that Q?
Lovebomb Lullaby to Alistair Darling.
Different Sides
We find ourselves on different sides
Of a line nobody drew
Though it all may be one in the higher eye
Down here where we live it is two
I to my side call the meek and the mild
You to your side call the Word
By virtue of suffering I claim to have won
You claim to have never been heard
The pull of the moon, the thrust of the sun
And thus the ocean is crossed
The waters are blessed while a shadowy guest
Kindles a light for the lost
Down in the valley the famine goes on
The famine up on the hill
I say that you shouldn’t, you couldn’t, you can’t
You say that you must and you will
You want to live where the suffering is
I want to get out of town
C’mon baby give me a kiss
Stop writing everything down
Leonard Cohen (your favourite poet)
From the album ‘Old Ideas’
Or perhaps, you would prefer an extract from Mr. Cohen’s poem ‘The Partisan’. (Surely that is in your CD collection!)
Oh, the wind, the wind is blowing,
through the graves the wind is blowing,
freedom soon will come;
then we’ll come from the shadows.
Good night Darling. Go back to sleep.
Here are the front pages of the papers:
https://imgur.com/a/SQW8f
Apparently also 200 years since the British burned down the USA’s White House.
https://twitter.com/UKinUSA/status/503668849750056960/photo/1
All AD had to offer post NO vote was welfare for work job creation – Scots unemployed being forced to work for Local Councils for no pay.
Aye Scotland could be a landslide …
Well no one could accuse the BBC audience tonight of bias against Yes.
nae sure if i am allowed to use this word but
Darling got his ass kicked tonight
Interesting the beeb are already spinning the debate.
@Malcolm Stephen 11:07pm
” Can we reinstate the Amiga and workbench as the standard in an iScotland?”
best suggestion on this site EVER.
last debate STV might be pulled to avoid total humiliation
Patrician
Only if the 64commodre is given parity.
papers are mostly a disgrace imagine if it were the other way round
Just got home in time to watch the repeat. I sense from the Twitters it has gone well.
Amazing scenes
bookie from hell
Darling has already agreed to the T&Rs.
Could have kissed woman in audience who accused Darling of rank hypocrisy. A wonderful moment.
Westminster, let my people go!
Some of the most idiotic folk in Scotland seem to have watched a totally different debate from the one I had watched and phoned the BBC.
Don’t be disheartened Robert, these people were probably unionist activists, or hardened no voters, who were already primed to phone in and spin the argument around.
It is the don’t knows and some soft no’s we need.
Alex Salmond did brilliantly and was very statesman like. He was in total control of the debate. Darling looked like the negative, angry buffoon and Tory stooge he is. And the audience in the hall gave louder and longer applause to Salmond. At points Darling was booed and jeered especially on the tried currency issue – Salmond nailed that – we will use the pound and no-one can stop us that’s plan B.
I fell this will be a turning point for the undecided and the soft no’s. Come on we can win this Scotland!
I don’t think Darling will be a very popular man in Downing St. tomorrow – but then again, he’s their fall guy isn’t he… 🙂
goldenayr
Commodore scum! 😉 Spectrum was the people’s computer. It had a socialist rubber keyboard.
LOL
The audience in the hall gave louder and longer applause to Salmond.
That can mean only one thing – on the presumption a balanced audience was organised to attend, the movement is towards a Yes vote.
I want to take this opportunity to apologise to the good people of Panama about some of the remarks made about your country tonight.
I would also like to volunteer myself as our man in Panama after independence but if that doesn’t happen, then my vote will be for Mr Darling to be given the post.
The woman who gave AD a lecture;
link to twitter.com
Even from the opening few minutes, Salmond is calm and in control
*gets popcorn*
Also, Glenn Campbell is no Ponsonby.
This is brilliant…watched it first on STV, then on BBC, now being REPEATED on BBC!
Bet they regret printing their programming schedules now!
They were obviously banking on a UK wide trouncing of AS.
Good on you Alex….master tactician
@william taylor says: 26 August, 2014 at 12:01 am:
“nae sure if i am allowed to use this word but
Darling got his ass kicked tonight
Whit daed AD’s puir auld dunky dae tae get a kickin?
It sud hae been AD whit goat his earse kickit no his auld dunky.
@west_lothian_questioner
Evev the ultra-unionist Huffington Post has a headline reading “Salmond fillets Darling…”
Something went right tonight and the Beeb never saw it coming…..
They’ve quickly amended it to “Alex Salmond ‘Wins’ Second Scottish Independence Debate”. 😀
link to tinyurl.com
Fantastic outcome and AS did well. I must say as someone previously involved in presentational skills, AS (and AD)had a tendency to interrupt the other. This does not usually go down well with viewers and listeners but at the end of the day Glen Campbell did little to control the debate.
Anyone feeling inspired enough to help SSP in the Three Towns tomorrow?
We’ve got the use of the Margomobile, and we’re meeting at Stevenston railway station at 11.00 a.m.
We’re going to wing it, but will probably tour Ardrossan/Saltcoats/Stevenston as the bus goes back and forth, leafleting for our Wednesday Ardeer C.C. Public Meeting, canvassing sections of central Stevenston/Saltcoats, and talking to a’body we meet.
This could be one of the last chances to get involved in bringing the arguments for a Socialist Scotland to real people – we need all the help we can get, and it’ll be great fun.
I won’t be up late enough, or early enough, to deal with any questions about this, or provide further information – just be there!!
I almost forgot to say – the first 100 folk to arrive at the Wed evening meeting(7.30) will receive a copy of the Wee Blue Book.
Alex was quite clever offering darling a job on the Scotland team, if anybody knows where all the money is hidden it will be him. It was a good move in many ways.
Email from Better Together HQ.
Alistairs doing his bit- now you can help him. I’ll spare you’s the rest of the waffle,so they are rattling asking for help in phoneing people door knocking Its the BIG PUSH,kin anybody recommend a good Maternity Hospital,or its mibbe a enama they need.
The prize for the most out of touch twats has to go to some of the idiot Clegg cheerleaders who still haven’t learned their lesson after the toxic Clegg was hammered by the buffoon Farage.
Thank god these yellow tories are a complete irrelevance to scottish politics now.
go yerself Eck you really smashed flipper and made him look like the bumbling idiot he is ,i imagine Cameron has his head in his hands just now thinking why was i so stupid to let this halfwit run the no campaign.
Vote yes Scotland and lets get rid of these morons and make our country a shining beacon of hope to the rest of the world.
Rhona! (Thought I’d already said that)
Softlee softlee catchee monkee 😉
BBC trying to pacify rUK right now…..short vid…the view from a York pub.
They’re trying for damage limitation as we type!
Alec – you did us proud – I think the irrefutable case for independence has been made. We really can still do it.
Next!?
(Maybe Cameron, Osborne, Reid, May, Boris even Murphy? – nah, God wouldn’t be that good to us)
The press release/BT instruction to all media that they should go for the ‘shouty Salmond turns off undecideds, talk about a score draw and generally do all they can to play down this rout rings so hollow, whether it is being parrotted by Kezia or big Brian Taylor.
These folk have absolutely zero integrity. Kezia should have jumped ship ages ago, or tried to replace JoLa… she didn’t and could have taken several steps back to protect her career but instead she is going to go down with the HMS BTUKOK.
I wonder if she will still be repeating the same well worn earnest ‘concerned’ snish years after Scotland has won her independence like one of those Japanese soldiers still at war in the jungle years after the war has been lost.
Darling – ‘when the oil runs out, it runs out’
Ok that’s what I call stating the bleeding obvious
like when my car runs out of petrol, it runs out of petrol
The thing is I know when my car will run out, so I go and fill it up again. Same goes for every motorist across the planet. That’s called demand.
I digress, what Darling didn’t state is when he thought it would run out and neither did he seem to realise that Scotland has oil on the Atlantic side
Sky talking about the volatility of oil revenues and failing to clarify that it was mainly due to the UK treasury arsing about taxation .
So long as there is demand, the value will remain relatively steady, but as population increases, so will demand. The only thing that prevents oil prices shooting through the roof, is the continual development of new oil fields.
Yes it will all eventually run out, but not in our lifetime, plenty time for revenues to be invested properly for that eventuality 🙂
@Ronnie
“kin anybody recommend a good Maternity Hospital,or its mibbe a enama they need.”
It’s not the oil running out that is their major concern.
Besides with friends like Darling, who needs enemas?
@ bigpolmont
Confirmed it was Bob Gillespie, old school labour/union guy. Siller’s fired a really obscure piece of EU jargon at him. Sunk!
BG is father of Bobby Gillespie of Primal Scream fame, hence lots anti-SNP sniping from that camp.
I’ve never met AS , but of the people I know ( non political) always say he is a smashing guy etc etc …. I can only assume those who are Naes “caus a dinae like at Samon” do not like it when he is being assertive in his points . Anyway he controlled it very well again tonight . I think AD was quite crude & was headin’ for a “smack in the puss” ” needed his coupan altered ” , to coin a phrase . AS really had to hud it i gether at times . GC was nae bad with the questioning but a total “chocolate ashtry” as a ref . I’m pleased to report Inverness is awash with Yes stuff , all over not only in CC and there are a good few o the big white “YES” up in fields along the A96 towards ABZ We can all sleep a bit better this week , but a lot to do …. you are all working well . Thank you .
Darling looked like Darling.
Seriously OT here guys.
SF have infiltrated Pro Russian forces,in Ukraine,ahead of a concorde in Syria.
This is old news.
What’s new,to some,is their active involvement in the participation of Putins overthrow,financed by the Russian oligarchs,resident in London.
@Chic McGregor its Enema’s all round the BT camp tonite,they,re gonna cause a shortage of toilet paper,then there’s a price rise fur the rest of us lol.
Watched Sky News, who managed to ‘find’ two young women who thought the debate was terrible as it was all ‘shouty’
Curious thing is, I think in a separate sequence when Sky were filming Darling leaving, one of the young women got in his car.
Both were filmed outside the building that the debate took place in
Darling is absolutely drowning here. Don’t the postals go out tomorrow?
*rubs hands*
Scottish Sun online poll on who do you trust, Salmond or Darling. Maybe they are taking a sounding before they come out with a stance.
As an American General said to me.
“Can you ‘tack’?”
Good to see it turned out as expected by the Yes HQ. Jan spoke to Blair Jenkins last week and the last debate came up in the conversation. She didn’t pull any puches and said it hadn’t been that good. Blair gave her a wink and a smile and said just wait to see what we have planned for the next one. I thought it was just the typical bravado you expect from campaign people but looks like he wasn’t kidding.
Westminster sits behind the wheel, driving us around in their car, never giving us a choice of where we’re going, while we supply the fuel. And it is, apparently, in our interest to maintain this arrangement because “the fuel is running out”.
Countdown Scotland…..3 weeks and a day or two to go , what a beautiful piece of telly ! Mr Darling obviously peed himself as he never left his podium.
never underestimate our FM he did not sit down in the den of thieves for all those years for nothing ,he was doing his homework and preparing for the day to come,he is not to be trifled with hence the reason Cameron would not debate him ,but as a person he is the most down to earth politician this country and the UK has ever seen ,a real political powerhouse ,the first debate now makes a lot of sense it was a case of come on give me your best shot the second debate was you had your shot now is my turn wallop knockout 🙂
Ooh-er…
Check out this Tweet, from WOS feed:
@Ed_Miliband my great, great grandad founded the Labour Party & would be embarrassed by the state of the party in Scotland & by this tweet
P.S.
The author of that tweet was ‘Ross Hardie’.
Following on from the debate we now need to go campaigning.
Give a few pennies to this appeal;
link to indiegogo.com
Margo wants us to win.
After actually listening to what was said in the debate, it seemed to me the only point Salmond put across was a patriotic one. He couldn’t seem to say how he was going to achieve any of his policies and when asked for a definitive answer in anything (I.e the issue of jobs in faslane) he wouldn’t give one. He didn’t have an Answer, instead he started talking about trident (which we have already established is going to go in the event of a yes vote).
He (salmond) is a better public speaker, however he did not make any convincing arguments for independance he merely raged about the Tories then spent five minutes jabbering about a frankly irrelevant piece of information in the cross examination.
Does anyone know what the SNP are planning on doing regarding all the other military bases in Scotland and all of the mod jobs accross the country?
I don’t think Darling got hammered in the debate. Put better points to the public than Salmond.
“After actually listening to what was said in the debate, it seemed to me the only point Salmond put across was a patriotic one. He couldn’t seem to say how he was going to achieve any of his policies and when asked for a definitive answer in anything (I.e the issue of jobs in faslane) he wouldn’t give one.”
You really need to pay more attention. Faslane will be the main naval base for the whole of Scotland. Scotland will have an actual navy, unlike now. It’ll need MORE looking after than four submarines do now. There’s your jobs.
a wee Daily Record poll
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Sun poll
link to thescottishsun.co.uk
Nope, definitely one of my clones. There’s one with tawny hair in Greenock, and one with dreadlocks in Glasgow. The other wrestles under the name Bray Wyatt for the WWE.
Yup. I was hoping for a Rocky IV, but cool-and-collected FM was more reminiscent of Master Yoda than anything else.
Oh dear, some bitter unionists blaming the audience, the moderator, the BBC.. Everything but Darlings feeble performance – BBC Have Your Say
The Union skewered.
The First Minister has done his bit and done it well. Now it is up to us. We can win this.
Lord Darling of Skelpit Erse, perhaps?? Hope he has a Plan B
My friends
link to youtube.com
If not by courage, how?
One of the most interesting things for me about tonight was the audience. I assume they would have weighted them based on opinion polls but you could sense a mood amongst them. It confirms what many of us have felt out on about in Glasgow – this city is definitely moving Yes in a big way.
I would suggest this was the “Subway” moment
I would suggest this was the “Subway ” moment
You’re link’s not working Chic.
That was like getting a 65/35 result on the 18th, Zero doubt about the result.
Anything other than a comprehensive massacre would have been portrayed as a draw at best.
I used to do martial art competitions years ago, when we went south we were told not to get through a fight on points, we were told to try win by knockout so there was Zero doubt who won.
In manchester tournaments you were lucky to get a draw if the opponent got carted off on a stretcher, such was the bias at times.
Absolutely no doubt about that tonight, but watch the spin by BBC in particular.
They wanted to jump over AS after this, they must be pig sick tonight.
Nobs on the Telegraph website are particularly rabid tonight following the debate, I’m genuinely slightly apprehensive about a trip down to Canterbury via Lincoln over the next couple of days, thank fek I’m then over to La France. Proxy in place, but maybe no internet, rats!
BT HQ tonight…..quick, bring in plan B….Battle of Britain, part deux?
[monsterd] plaid the long game.
The question was asked, “what impact will this debate have on the undecided”. According to the ICM/Guardian Poll following the debate, the answer appears to be considerable.
Before the debate, Yes 221(48.89) No 231 (51.11) Undecided 53 ( not included)
After the debate, Yes 230 No 235, Undecided 40
In percentage terms, YES 49.46 No 50.54, the highest level ever reached in a poll by ICM or any other this year. The gap between the two sides is ONE PERCENT.
A drop of 13 in undecided with 9 going YES and 4 going NO.
Also note that 25% of the undecided made a decision after the debate with 69% going to YES and 31% going to NO.
Applying a similar shift to the remainder (28 Yes, 12 No) would make the final result, YES 259 No 247 or Yes 51.2% and No 48.8, a gap of 2.4% in favour of YES.
What’s the bet BT/Project Fear will want a third TV debate now?
What’s the bet BT/Project Fear will want a third TV debate now? I don’t doubt the result of that one either.
The Executive Director of Transparency International UK said, “The revolving door between government and business is spinning out of control. This has created an environment in which corruption risks are high.”
Alistair Darling: MP for Edinburgh South-West
A lady attacked, “Flipper” tonight.
Flipper is evidently in demand. He received a fee of £10,200 for addressing a dinner organised by Cinven, London. Hours: approx 6 hrs. On its website it states: ‘Cinven has been involved in European healthcare over a 20-year period and invests in market-leading, cash-generative companies.
“Cinven”, is a leading buyout firm, who bought 25 private hospitals from, “BUPA”. Other UK investments include, “Spire Healthcare”, who run private healthcare hospitals, and whose clinical director Jean-Jacques de Gorter said the USE OF PRIVATE SECTOR WOULD SPIRAL as a result of Andrew Lansley’s reform proposals. “General Healthcare Group”, which runs, “Healthcare Services”, and whose group includes, “BMI Healthcare”. The other company is Générale de Santé who are France’s leading healthcare provider.
Surely another reason to vote, “Yes” in the referendum. The Scottish NHS is well worth protecting from the excesses of the finance guru’s whose only driver is profit.
What’s the bet BT/Project Fear will want a third TV debate now? I don’t doubt the result of that one either.
The Executive Director of Transparency International UK said, “The revolving door between government and business is spinning out of control. This has created an environment in which corruption risks are high.”
Alistair Darling: MP for Edinburgh South-West
A lady attacked, “Flipper” tonight.
Flipper is evidently in demand. He received a fee of £10,200 for addressing a dinner organised by Cinven, London. Hours: approx 6 hrs. On its website it states: ‘Cinven has been involved in European healthcare over a 20-year period and invests in market-leading, cash-generative companies.
“Cinven”, is a leading buyout firm, who bought 25 private hospitals from, “BUPA”. Other UK investments include, “Spire Healthcare”, who run private healthcare hospitals, and whose clinical director Jean-Jacques de Gorter said the USE OF PRIVATE SECTOR WOULD SPIRAL as a result of Andrew Lansley’s reform proposals. “General Healthcare Group”, which runs, “Healthcare Services”, and whose group includes, “BMI Healthcare”. The other company is Générale de Santé who are France’s leading healthcare provider.
Surely another reason to vote, “Yes” in the referendum. The Scottish NHS is well worth protecting from the excesses of the finance guru’s whose only driver is profit.
AS did very well but the audience did even better.
Went to bed several hours ago but couldn’t sleep.
I reckon we have jumped about 5/10% in the polls.
I’ll have the champagne for the 19th on my shopping list this week!
Cheers all you yes voters.
.
BOOM! What a joy to watch. Watched it repeated with a glass of whisky to really savour the moment.
ICM poll very much in his favour and within the results it says that the groups that favoured Alex the most were women, Labour voters and undecided. The groups that are vital to winning. The only groups that really favoured Darling were Tory and Lib Dem voters!! Says it all when the “Labour” man is only supported by the Tories and their carbuncle party Lib Dems and even the Labour voters are drifting away.
Remember too that even after the last debate that Alex was suppoed to have “lost”, the poll actually moved marginally in favour of Yes, despite TV disaster and the unionist media crowing about it. Imagine what the result will be with a victory, poll winning result, media on back foot trying to play it down as a “draw” or “technical victory”, etc. and then people walkign on air almost when they’re canvassing next few days? 😀
In it to win it!
[I seem to remember that game in the pic was actually rather good.]
P.S.
SOUTH AYRSHIRE (or those nearby willing to travel) WINGS PEOPLE WANTING TO VOLUNTEER TO HELP WITH THE REFERENDUM – OVERSIGHT AT POLLING STATIONS, POSTAL VOTE OPENINGS OR THE COUNT ON THE DAY THEN PLEASE CHECK IN WITH THE OFF-TOPIC BOARD ASAP. ONCE IN A LIFETIME CHANCE TO BE INVOLVED. CHEERS. 🙂
Nice one in The Herald:
By the end, Mr Salmond was sounding hoarse while Mr Darling was looking for a hearse.
@ Muscleguy
Brilliant cool analysis as usual.
Saludos!
” Can we reinstate the Amiga and workbench as the standard in an iScotland?”
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Someone please make this happen/put it in their manifesto. ;D
Let’s face it. If you only had two debates two do and you could only clearly win in one, the one RIGHT BEFORE postal votes go out and closer to the voting day itself is the one you want to pick and win.
Squeaky bum time for BT!
Bugger. Ignore the typos. It’s late and I am still excited after that debate. 😛
Went out for a few beers ,came home asked for the link, but couldn’t bring myself to watch it .. i have my heart and sole in this campaign and cant bring myself to watch the video
all i know is Darling better together and Labour + Tories need to be taken down then put in JAIL and I’m sticking to that
Bob the Paisley buddie
Bob G you should totally go for it! It was like ambrosia to Yes viewers!
Make sure you watch the unedited debate, not some biased BBC edited spin version and you’ll love it. Audience was great too. You’ll feet a foot taller after it.
@BB.
Welcome to insomniacs for yes..lol.
Had a Scoot around a few papers and news channels, there was the usual ‘shouty’ guff that strangely enough last time was the deciding factor last time in the media as opposed to actually answering any questions by darling.
Maybe it is me, but i failed to see much reference to the absolutely No Chance of a CU.
It seems to be all ‘if’ there is not a CU !
Has it now been accepted that BT has indeed now been seen to be bluffing and the media back up of that bluff has been pulled away from under BT ?
It seems a subtle, yet tangible shift, or am i just imagining it ?
If they get a 3rd debate, they’ll need someone else. It would have to be Cameron at this point. Darling was destroyed and BT would be stupid to wheel him out again. The only person left who outranks him in the BT hierarchy is Cameron. Looks like Alex has opened the way to the match up people have alays wanted. Now its up to Cameron to man up or continue to play mousy mousy.
Is there not another debate to come, but modelled on Question time ?
Sure i read this somewhere a day or 3 ago ?
Quisling Darling ,("Tractor" - Ed) tory boy apologist.
Joe90 earpiece specs, and hair. Tae hide his nervous lying tics.
THE BIG RAT.
Joe90 was decent and honourable .
Ratboy darling naw!.
Cool vids, and awesome tunes by John Barry, on youtube for our younger patriots.
BobG,was in the same frame of mind but left my tablet on this page to listen to some distracting music…….
couldn’t resist a wee peek,OMG! Alec is pounding Flipperoony.
what a performance!, we got to see the real McCoy tonight.
that women’s statement about Flipper attending health related dinners really deflated his ego :).
Just what we all required with 3 weeks left of this lng campaign.
Stu has done Wonders with this site,and must be recognised after the dust has settled.
good note insomniacs.
“nitey -note “
I am sure I saw a statement from ‘better together’ that they would not do a 3rd debate because voting would have already started (postal).
So the Sky Debate will not happen… but after tonight who knows? Cameron might be ushered to the front after all.
Insomniacs for YES has a ring to it. 🙂
@geeo
I’d agree with that. It’s a subtle shift, but don’t know if their simply forced into making a small concession because of the much larger win for Yes. Like losing a mile and admitting only to the first yard. There’s also the possibility that the news media will try to maintain their credibility and customer base in a post-Yes Scotland. If they go all out to back the winner and burn their bridges their business here will dry up.
@thoughtsofascot
Well trying for a 3rd debate from their demands would make a mockery of BT again. They claimed there was no point in debates after the postal vote went out (start going out tomorrow) so they’d have to do a big U-turn.
BT have the problem where they’ve really got no one able (Lamont? LOL) up here or no one who is “non-toxic” to turn to. PM Dave is about the only one who could push for a debate on short notice too, due to the hierarchy thing you pointed out, but the last thing BT would want is a toxic Tory up here, after he’s promised to leave it to the Scots and refused debate.
There’s also the other reason Dave doesn’t want to debate and is happy for Darling to do so. Darling can promise nothing as he’s a back bencher for a party that is not in power in Westminster or Holyrood. That way Darling can say any lie and make any promise and no one can hold the government to it as he’s “only” a backbencher and his party is out of power. It’s a different kettle of fish if the PM promises it on air (even though we know their promises are worth little) and any promises would be used heavily as bargaining chips in negotiations afterwards, whatever the results. This risk of being pushed into making clear promises is probably one of the main reasons Dave stays clear and is happy for a minion to do it instead.
I think Dave will bottle it even now. Both to avoid being trapped and also to have enough plausible deniability and distance to make sure it is Darling and Labour that get the blame for “losing” Scotland – which he will batter Labour over the head with non-stop come the next general election.
Are there badges for this insomnia club, BTW? 😉
@Iain Gray’s Subway Lament
The front page of the Ardrossan & Saltcoats Herald you mention, has been given a prominent position on the front window of the Yes shop in Largs, and it has received a LOT of attention from passing members of the public. We have another three replacement copies in case it fades!
I’ve long suspected that poll figures are being selective; the majority of people I meet in everyday life say Yes. My suspicions have been confirmed as, during the debate, the audience questions appeared to be around 3-1 pro indy, yet the beeb still managed to interview a selection who will vote no!
Man, I’m still buzzin after watching that performance.
Can’t sleep.
Have resolved to double my volunteer shifts with Yes Hamilton. Lets do this guys.
Think we’re all feeling upbeat after that. Canvassers and those manning stalls will feel they’ve got wings next few days.
Just got up. Couldn’t sleep.
My mind is full of last night’s amazing debate show
with Alex playing a blinder.
And that audience ! Brilliant !
I think I’m going to need therapy !
Alex was very generous to AD at the end.
I, on the other hand, want to see him in prison.
And a hellavu lot like him to boot.
The show is a great boost to confidence I’m sure,
to the Yes Campaign.
But of course it isn’t over.
Westmonster won’t give up
on Scotland’s growing wealth easily.
We can expect even more money
to be poured into the No Thanks campaign
while John McTernan won’t be interested in sleeping
before the 18th.
There is still time for Cameron
to spring a nasty surprise – or two.
We are talking about deep-rooted Colonial genes here
with a long history of oppression and
industrial scale looting.
A=and, London has a 307 year old habit
which they are about to have cold turkey over.
Westminster isn’t finished yet.
There could be the threat of force yet.
Faced with the loss of much of England’s oil and gas supplies for ever –
some countries have gone to war for less.
I must be an early morning pessimist!
But today, I am restored in confidence
and reinvigorated to get out and
help get Yes in the bag, safe and secure.
And after Independence, which I believe will be a gradual process and will start happening slowly right after the Referendum,
I doubt I’ll be giving too much thought to Westminster.
Onward Scotland! To victory and freedom !!
Oh man this is great. The NoThanksUBitterTogetherKOK crew on my facebook are all now posting up pictures of Salmond with fat jokes. The classic retort when you have been thoroughly beaten – Ad Hominems. Rather than accept defeat with grace, or question themselves on why their side took a massive pounding, they resort to bitter attacks on a mans weight.
I don’t know if anyone else is seeing this on their pages, but this is a really good sign. It means whatever foot soldiers they have left are utterly demoralised and are losing the will to fight.
@BB says:
There’s also the possibility that the news media will try to maintain their credibility and customer base in a post-Yes Scotland. If they go all out to back the winner and burn their bridges their business here will dry up.
Too late for that now, I would have thought. The complete lack of impartiality in the news media has contributed to a virtual self-destruction. There will still be some that will buy these rags, but I honestly can’t think it will be anywhere near the numbers pre-referendum. You just have to look at The Sun’s circulation figures in Liverpool, as a result of their lies during the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster.
BT have the problem where they’ve really got no one able (Lamont? LOL) up here or no one who is “non-toxic” to turn to. PM Dave is about the only one who could push for a debate on short notice too, due to the hierarchy thing you pointed out, but the last thing BT would want is a toxic Tory up here, after he’s promised to leave it to the Scots and refused debate.
Can’t someone persuade Danny Alexander or Jim Murphy to debate with AS live on TV? I would sell my own body parts to see such a debate!
I think Dave will bottle it even now. Both to avoid being trapped and also to have enough plausible deniability and distance to make sure it is Darling and Labour that get the blame for “losing” Scotland – which he will batter Labour over the head with non-stop come the next general election.
I’ve been thinking along similar lines in recent weeks. Vile Cameron, and his odious sidekick Osborne, have both managed to stay well out of any debate, and they’ve left it to the Labour and LibDem lackeys to shoulder the blame in the event of a Yes win.
On another note, a lot of the media (no doubt under strict instruction from BT, or whatever there name is), appears to be running with the idea that AS was “shouty” and “aggressive”, and they are suggesting that people are still unsure on the currency issue.
BT are also running with the myth that Scotland is going to “default on its debt”. They’ve lost the currency argument, they’ve lost the NHS argument, they’ve lost the oil argument, they’ve lost every other argument I can think of, so I have a feeling that the debt default will be next on their agenda.
They truly are pathetic and laughable.
@ Marco & BB
I’m not so sure Cameron can avoid backlash though. its a catch-22 for him. If he comes up north to debate and YES wins, he is out of a job. If he does nothing and Yes wins, He is out of a job as soon as Boris gets a seat in Westminster.
He suffers from congenital cowardice, so he won’t come north and do the decent thing, but if I were in his shoes I’d rather go out in flames than with a knife in my back.
And let’s not forget the 2 magnificent Scotswomen who served Darling his lying, flipping, troughing bollocks on a plate:
link to logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk
Watched the debate at 2:00 a.m. from India. Fantastic performance by our First Minister, Alistair Darling came across as a shouty, pointy man saying “we cannae risk it”.
Audience was superb too. Who let them in?
@Marco McGinty
In my eyes the old media was dying before but now they’ve taken a cyanide pill for their future in Scotland with this debate. Huge mistrust of them in too many, lots sickened by their behaviour and many more have got in habit of turning to social media, etc. Good riddance, frankly. The old establishment had gone rotten long ago. The few good writers out there in that swamp will still be able to do good work. The rest is good riddance to bad rubbish, I hope to see them in a dole queue soon. The liars should be remembered as well as the heroes.
But I do still think the media – foolishly or not – are often trying to paste a paper-thin amount of “impartiality” or credibility with this act. Partly to save their own necks if they’ve officially backed the losing side and partially to give their message more impact – people will absorb unthinkingly as fact info from a source that pretends to be neutral (the BBC being the most guilty in this area).
The media can try to spin this outright victory for Yes as a win for BT but it’s a hopeless cause. The performance by AS was superb and the audience couldn’t have been much better. The media will have to outright lie about it to get much traction, which will only alienate those who actually saw the debate or will see it later at some point. The genie is out for that bottle.
As for the defaulting debt thing…LOL! I hope they do. That is a scare story for pre-vote debate where they hope to fire off a fear stink bomb and hope the smell doesn’t clear and the truth come to light before people vote. After a Yes vote it blows away with the wind like a bad smell from where most of Darling’s material is sourced. If they go with the debt thing as a bit issue we’re clicking our heels with joy on Yes side as the answers on that one are VERY clear. Historical and current case backs Yes, as do the gov’s own promise to back it, law, etc. It’d be a beautiful thing if they tried that angle.
@thoughtsofascot
Perhaps. I won’t shed a tear for Dave’s career anyway. 😉 I still think distance suits him and favours the BT campaign as the lesser disaster. It might even help the Tories to keep a Yes result for the party, if not Dave himself. The party itself is bound to exert some pressure on what happens.
You’re right about the cowardice thing for these types but they are self-serving from start to finish. That behaviour is to be expected. They are careerist politicians to look out for themselves and line their pockets, not to serve the public and self-sacrifice.
@Roddy Macdonald
Oh yes! Those two were the highlights. Although we had some real belters elsewhere with lots of clued up people and even UDs leaning to No that were critical.
I hope someone’s written up the quotes from those two women. I’ll be using them often. 😀
Loved the video clip on that link. Watching Darling’s skelped arse face…priceless! He was really trying hard to keep his rage in check with his dead poker face look.
S M
I’m getting really sick of all this BS. Just get on with the referendum, vote to go and get lost, and take Wales and Ireland with you if you can.
Nobody wants this union any more, and I certainly don’t want to subsidise further an ungrateful people.
_______________________________________________________
The above is fairly typical of the comments on the BBC’s website – lots of nasty comments from English people.
link to bbc.co.uk
Is it time to just write the BBC off in Scotland ?
If their was a referendum on the continuation of the BBC in Scotland, I’d definitely vote to get rid of it.
Scoatland?
is that how you say it?
I always thought only Londoners said Scoatland when they were taking the piss out of a Scottish accent?
I’ve never met or heard anyone say “Scotland” like Darling does. It’s like he’s only ever seen the word written down but never heard it pronounced.
“SCWAUGHWT LAND” or some other abomination. He tortures the name every time. Where on earth does that come from?
Maybe he had to repeat it while he was ‘servicing’ his fag-master, Norman Lamont, at Fettes. That might make you pronounce it funny for the rest of your life.
Breathtaking ignorance from an aresehole on BBC @5.48am
Justin Urquart-Stewart (yes I know)
who says the best thing for Scotland is devo max so they can be responsible for the debts they run up while Salmond hands out his “largesse”
“I celebrate internationalism not colloquialism”?
I think you meant parochalism Justin. dick! 🙂
Or parochialism even, 🙂
Manandboy: an ungrateful people.
That is an example of hate speech, most certainly removed if aimed at non-white ethnic groups yet somehow remaining on BBC’s website as legitimate opinion.
Too loud man
link to youtube.com
The NoThanksUBitterTogetherKOK crew on my facebook are all now posting up pictures of Salmond with fat jokes. The classic retort when you have been thoroughly beaten – Ad Hominems.
In that they join the Guardian’s former political editor, Michael White, who draws attention to Salmond’s hair, (and Darling’s) a weak unnecessary joke, a archetypical remark from an arrogant colonial who can’t get his head around the democratic deficit Scotland endures.
His remark is also symptomatic of the disasterously casual response of Westminster to Scotland’s laudable rejection of contemporary politics.
Morning, John. You’re up early!
Demonisation and hate speech against the poorest in society is becoming the norm in Westminster and the London based media. The headline about 500,000 “scum” families, etc. is getting disturbingly close to repeating the tragedies of the past.
I thought postal voting hasn’t started?
According to my sister in Dundee, she has already voted.
Im always up at this time usually about 05.00
It was noticeable in the BBC Debate show
how Alistair Darling showed the First Minister
no respect whatsoever.
I take that personally.
I want to take this opportunity to apologise to the good people of Panama about some of the remarks made about your country tonight.
Seconded – adding by the inane opposition to Scotland’s democracy.
It was live in many of our former colonies.
Even the US, remember that one you lost a whiles back, resheduled CSpan to broadcast it live.
Today the World is sitting up and taking notice of Scotland. The White House and Pentagon will be opening their Plan Bs at page 1 to blank pages and saying Fuck.
Get someone over their quick!
Darling’s entire outlook for Scotland’s future is the masochistic ‘take whatever Westminster dishes out and learn to love it.’
No thanks.
After 40-years in sports reporting, I tend to look for a sporting angle to everything, so, please forgive me this observation.
Scotland’s best sporting moments have long tended to come when it doesn’t matter. The Wembley Wizards was a “wooden spoon” game. Wembley 1967 came a year too late; then we lost to a Northern Ireland team that was George Best and ten others, before drawing with England and not qualifying for Euro’68.
Aye, Archie Gemmill scored that goal against Holland, but, only after we had failed to beat Iran. We still go on about John Greig’s goal against Italy, forgetting, had we not flung away a winning position against Poland in the previous game, we WOULD have qualified for England in 1966.
So, let’s enjoy last night – Alistair Darling, David Cameron, Gideon Osborne, Gordon Brown, Danny Alexander, Alistair Carmichael, Douglas Alexander, Jim Murphy – your team took a hell of a beating and all that.
But, the vote on 18 September still has to be won. I know all the Wings regulars on here will be fighting to make this happen, but, we are not home yet.
The UK state, the self-servers in the Westminster bubble in particular, will pull-out every dirty trick in the book, plus one or two which we maybe haven’t thought of yet, to try to swing things back after last night.
We’ve won nothing yet and – another old football truism – a team is often at its most-vulnerable just after it has scored. So, let’s, for once in Scotland’s history, see this one through to the end, which is victory on 18 September and FREEDOM!!!!!
Finally, can I stress another Scottish sporting triumph and its aftermath, which has guided me for nigh-on 35-years.
As he took his victory lap at the Moscow Olympics, Allan Wells kept repeating to himself: “Keep the heid, keep the heid”.
After last night, let’s keep the heid and surge onwards to victory.
I though Darling got the closest to his oft attempted impression of Basil Fawlty.
Steven Seagull says:
Are you playing for the opposition today? Or just exercising your bowels?
Both The Sun and DR are were/are doing online polls last night, the DR one we are well ahead. Will one of them , or any daily paper now take the step and side with YES after last night.
Bunter: Will one of them, or any daily paper now take the step and side with YES after last night.
Improbable – they have been implacably anti-democratic these last months, head set against Scotland’s dissent. That’s always been the way of English imperialism, expressed again yesterday when one guy teeted: “That ungrateful lot.”
In these last critical days we should all take Salmond’s example of fierce integrity and dedication to convince a few more folk to grab an historic opportunity, to dump timidity and be courageous in demanding a better future for this nation and its children.
What have we to lose?
Only Westminster’s decredited policies.
I can’t seem to comment on the hastily rewritten articles by Johnson and Cochrane on the Telegraph.
Shame…
Yet they still get their little digs in; ‘victory’ within inverted comments in the headline, ‘supposedly neutral audience’ in the main body.
We’re winning.
Darlings final comment was telling.Currency/instability.I think they’re going to engineer a run on the banks in the days before the referendum.The BBC and newspapers will play a big part in creating panic.They really are getting desperate now.
Salmond won it hands down. What is actually very annoying is that the media slightly acknowledge that Salmond won it, but seem to think it was a close call.
Seriously …were they watching the STV TV debate again. Salmond absolutely spanked Darling.
The BBC news at 10 straight after it was appalling also, painting a case that it had been a close debate.
Honestly …the media in this country. The only thing they won’t comment on is the thumping landslide from the poll which showed Alex had won it by 71%. I’m genuinely surprised that 29% thought Darling won it. That WILL be the hardcore ‘No’ element out there then.
What was rather funny that on Facebook, it was just the Yes Side claiming victory. Not a peeop from the No supporters. I then had a peek at the Better Together Facebook page.
Tumbleweed… not …a …peep…
Radio Scotland just admitted it was a knock out debate!
Flooplepoop Sun poll
Interesting use of quotes by the Sun in the poll question. This is what they quote from Darling:
“Of course we could go it alone but I don’t believe we would be as successful as Scotland would be as part of the UK.”
That’d wind anybody up, especially if you’d watched the debate. Then you’re asked to vote.
A History of English Opposition to Scottish Democracy in Epitome:
“Of course Scotland can use the pound.” Alistair Darling
“Of course Scotland can use the pound.” Alistair Darling
“A Unionist will explore every possibility until only common sense is left.” grousebeater.wordpress
@Grouse Beater
He crashed the very strategy he set in motion himself. Today he should be looking for a darkened room of his own to lie down in. 🙂
Chuckle…
Well, best we don’t gloat, but Darling, our own willing Aunt Sally, sure as hell had it coming to him. Time now to press on with winning the day and our empowerment.
Alex Salmond has brought us to the ring. Now it is our turn to dance.
“Of course we could go it alone but I don’t believe we would be as successful as Scotland would be as part of the UK.”
Really? As successful as £1.5 trillion in debt and huge austerity cuts heading our way?
Rev, why or how has steven Seagull re-appeared? I thought he was banned.
GMS unable to bring itself to say 71% to 29%–makes them look even more biased.
My wife has read out to me from her Daily Heil that they have hired an “expert” to tell us that last night’s body language by AS was one of defeat!
That’s a cracker!
A reminder before I dash off to work…
The clincher for me, and I hope for others, was Salmond saying that he was asking for a mandate from the people to negotiate in Scotland’s interest – then came the zinger:
As he will accept the result of a No vote would Darling accept the result of a Yes vote – would he respect the will of the people?
Darling refused to answer.
Which politician do you trust? The one asking for your support, or the one telling you what to think?
I wonder how many man hours, how much money they’ve spent trying to sell the line of Scotland not being ‘allowed’ to use sterling?
One moment of truth and clarity from an otherwise utterly deceitful politician and you can hear the screams, even from here, of strategy teams in London and BT central as they look for walls to bang their heads off. 😀
Onwards and upwards.
Douglas Alexander on Radio Scotland banging on about unanswered questions on currency, on oil and whatever else springs to mind.
They say there is none so blind as those who will not see: having watched the debate last night and watching our First Minister clearly and eloquently, often with inspiriation and vision answering all questions. I recall looking for Darling answering questions and he just didn’t do it. He refuses to do it.
Douglas Alexander just reveals himself as a mediocre,, lying party apparatchik rather than a normal human being . I pity him.
Don’t waste your pity Tam, he’s exactly where he wants to be.
Well, he’s made his bed and now he can lie in it.
Courier poll 84:16 for Salmond:
link to thecourier.co.uk
What debate were some of these hacks watching according to the BBC, “the Daily Mail calls Mr Salmond “arrogant and unstatesmanlike”, claiming he bullied his way through the most important 90 minutes of his political career shouting over his increasingly rattled opponent.”
There was one person constantly shouting over his opponent and getting increasingly angry and it wasn’t Alex Salmond whom I thought remained pretty calm and collected throughout the debate.
That “big bad Alex” bullied is laughable in the extreme because the only reason Darling was rattled, fluffed his lines and looked like he was going to have a breakdown on stage is because he had nothing to debate with and he knew it.
Was it just me, or was I alone in noticing Captain Darling’s ‘dalek’ meltdown moment? – The bit where he actually said, ‘I am a politician, I am a labour party politician….’ – and you could hear the tumbleweed blow through Kelvingrove….. as if that statement held any value? I could hardly sleep!
@R-type Grunt
Yup we must. I’m the speccy part bearded guy from the Ferry. I’ll be there too. Wouldn’t miss it for the world.
I wrote last night that this reminded me of jim Sillars debate just prior to his Govan By election victory but one of the major things that one it for us was on the back of Sillars winning the debate every supporter went out and redoubled their efforts The result was Labour fell apart. They ere truly demoralised eventually at the polls they just did not bother to show up If we do the same now we can acieve the same again get out there speak to folk , leaflet , canvas
Sorry Stu dont sit on your backside on the computer while you could be out there changing minds of the undecided . there is plenty time after leafleting or whatever else
lets get out there and destry their moral!
apologies for the typos in the above but I am sure you get the jist of it!
Just thinking about the debate in the light of day.
I think it could be a game changer. Not because Yes won and No lost badly, but because almost all of BT’s central fear fodder arguments took a serious knock. The audience in the hall saw it, and I have no doubt the wider population saw it too. Added to this, Salmond managed to shame Darling on a number of issues which BT have been trying to ignore. This too will be strongly noted.
It wasn’t Darling who went down the pan last night, it was BT’s whole campaign. When they try to bring up nonsense like PlanB again, it will be met with the same ridicule the Glasgow audience gave it.
Across many offices this morning and in many phonecalls, I am certain BT are struggling to know what to do.
@biggpolmont
agreed! A very, very loyal labour voting friend who was a firm No a month ago has just come out as a YES after last night. Gob smacked! Gob very smacked! Let’s get out there as others have said and do this !
bigpolmont
Stu is sitting on his backside? You must be new to this site big man – he has done more than anyone to win this. Stu needs to keep doing what he’s doing… leafletting Bath would not be a good use of his time right now!
Nae offence meant – it is interesting what you say about Jim Sillars performance – who was he up against?
The media spin on the debate last night is funny to watch/listen to – they’re like ants trying to take down a grizzly bear.
As for those 29% Who claimed AD had won the debate- for any of them reading this, I have a mate stuck in Ukraine who has lost all his money and needs help with a ticket home!
I have to disagree with Justin Kendrick (waay up the page!) ..I don’t think it was “as if Salmond had lured him in in the first debate”.. I absolutely don’t doubt it. Many were disappointed in what they saw as mr Salmond’s lacklustre performance at the last debate, but the smart money said, no, he’s playing the long game, just you wait & see at the next debate..and so it came to pass. Everything I’d heard & read about Mr Salmond’s skills as one of the most astute politicians with debating skills second to none did not tally with him apparently letting the side down just when said skills were most required. He wrong footed Darling at every turn last night and, imho, was able to do so precisely because of his performance in the first debate.
Either way, he did himself, us & Scotland proud last night & we have an immense amount to be grateful to him for.
Douglas Alexander – Labours “great thinker” is going around the TV studios repeating his new sound bite “….we know the flag, we know the capital….Yawn”
Negative sound bites sums up the BT campaign, hold the vote, slow the loss of votes, sneak over the line.
Why should we not change direction and build a fairer Scotland?
Westminster is about individual greed instead of looking after citizens.
Alex Salmond has brought you to the booth – now vote for your country – SCOTLAND the FREE!!!
Nice to see the odds shortening across most bookies
link to oddschecker.com
Still a bit to go towards evens or odds-on though. Wonder who on the no side is stoking the bookies tills to keep their odds so short.
I hope Flipper had his promise of Ermine in writing.
I think his after dinner speakers’ invitations will be drying up quite quickly.
His car crash was televised live across the USA on C Span who changed their schedule to accommodate the live broadcast.
@ Jim Thomson
They are all London based, I would guess City traders and currency flippers who helped fund the Naw campaign.
Pocket money to them, especially as they don’t pay tax, thanks to Dave and Gideon?
@ Grouse Beater
Excellent point about Darling. I think he just doesn’t have a clue how to think out of the WM box. Or really what the potential is for an independent Scotland.
He looked like a wee boy at Christmas when Eck said he’d welcome his help with discussions after a yes vote: “Jings, might this be possible?”
I think there’s hope for him, but he needs to get onto the couch.
Clootie says:
“… the BT campaign, hold the vote, slow the loss of votes, sneak over the line.”
Precisely! BT thought they were initially so far ahead they believed they only had to scare enough fearties to stay with them. They knew there would be a swing to Yes once the truth about Indy was spread, they thought they only had to slow that swing down.
I believe BT got their strategy totally wrong and last night we say it come close to crumbling.
So whats the verdict here about future debates ?
Darling says thats it for him, I don’t think anymore are planned – so do we quite while we’re ahead or push for more ?
Jesus – first 10 minutes of Morning call and the BBC are already spinning it towards NO. I hate the BBC
Clootie says:
Douglas Alexander – Labours “great thinker” is going around the TV studios repeating his new sound bite “….we know the flag, we know the capital
Union Jack,London
I never saw the STV debate (and hearing what it was like I was glad that I did)
The BBC Debate was very good I thought. Being a confirmed yesser it is fair to say that I will berate anything Darling says and not believe a word of it.
He stuttered and blinked his way though the debate, he agreed that we could use the pound. Result.
I did take issue with the section where they questioned each other “Question & Answer” did someone forget to tell Ally that.. His version was “Question & let the person start a reply then talk all over them”
Better Together, No Thanks uKOK spout on about a civilised debate and all their other rhetoric, but how can it be civilised if your not prepared to let the responder speak. Maybe it was a ploy, I dunno.
For me he came across as a wee boy that got caught with his hand in the biscuit tin, trying to defend it to his disapproving parents – catching his breath to explain himself so quickly as not to let his parents ask why he’s a greedy wee so and so.. Hoping the issue will just melt away (just like the marshmallow in the Tea Cake he’s just scoffed..)
WOW! Conviction and resolute adherence to principle – these rare weapons won that dark war!
Having lost the argument we can expect Total Carnage from Better Together for the next three weeks with flight of capital, Ebola, locusts, businesses going to leave and oil running out tomorrow.
I’m undecided: I’m not sure what would be the best nickname for Mr Darling. Should it be “Colonel Blink,” or Flip Flop?”
The BBC and Unionist media are in a quandary of negative spin, but nature of their animosity is at last beginning to register with the public – vested interest and a selfish gene ideology spitting in increasingly desperate angst.
@Jim
Totally agree with your analysis that it was Darling who did the shouting, pointing and talking over. I would go on to say that this was a tactic that Better Together have deployed in all the televised debates in order to turn people off and reduce the debate to one liners. It was widely commented on that Glen Campbell failed to moderate effectively but I would say his attempts at moderation were mostly to interrupt AS when he was responding. AD was free to go on at great length and it is a measure of his failure that despite this he still came out the loser by a great length.
@Jim McIntosh
Individuals at the BBC know they are fighting for their careers. They probably have strong fears this morning that they have nailed their colours to the wrong mast.
@Proud Cybernat says:26 August, 2014 at 2:50 am:
“What’s the bet BT/Project Fear will want a third TV debate now? I don’t doubt the result of that one either.”
More like they will be getting clobbered by their supporters to bring on the big guns to sink, “The good ship HMSS Salmond”. The big guns being a flotilla comprised of Cameron, Clegg and Miliband!
Oooh! Err! Mrs!
Baw! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Do you think Oor Eck’s feart?
To Socrates McSporran
You are absolutely true. You should never shout you’ve won until the cup is in your hands.
Not surprised wee Dougie Alexander is back,he was previously mentioned as the new face of BT.I think that flipper will be carted off for the rest of the campaign. He has no credilibilty left and his seat in the Lords has gone.
The most important thing is to keep focussed on the big prize. They will play even dirtier now as there is some much at stake.
Yes I agree with others here, the BBC are spinning for the no side. Also after the debate BBCS radio was to carry on a discussion. I could not find it on BBCS, was I looking somehow in the wrong place? or was it cancelled in light of the result?
The BBC have a lot to answer for when this is over.
In terms of bookies’ odds – generally these are designed to ensure there is a balance in the stakes placed between the two sides. They reflect betting patterns more than anything that actually impacts the vote.
Louise White on GMS interrogating Blair Jenkins then asking Blair Mcdougall what he thinks of the relies so no forensic challenge on the austerity we face if we vote No.
Regarding Glen Campbell, I’m sure it was him that actually asked Darling, “So we can still use the pound?” or something similar.
FLIPPER’s reply of Yes is the game changer and all thanks to a BBC presenter, WOW!!
No matter how they try and spin it, there were millions watching, any more BBC lies and editing will serve only to increase the YES vote.
@Haggis says:
26 August, 2014 at 3:28 am
” Can we reinstate the Amiga and workbench as the standard in an iScotland?”
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
Someone please make this happen/put it in their manifesto. ;D
Nah! I had the Amstrad 6128 with added disc drives.
I’ve still got a big box of old tape and disc games and the Mini-Office suite of programs, compilers and machine code stuff.
The Telegraph is a right biased piece of tatt but I can’t believe this story.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100284006/salmond-won-the-debate-but-it-will-make-little-difference/
GMS is terrible right now. They are pulling out all the stops to cancel out last nights BT disaster.
Also Blair Jenkins needs to SPEAK UP FFS
I just wanted Alex to pick up the podium and skelp darling round the ear with it, I hate everything that man is and wants to be, a socialist that steals from the people, his duplicity knows no bounds.
O/T
Betfair has odds of almost 6/1 available on Yes, expressed as 7 on their decimal basis. Remember they take 5% commission off your profit.
@BB says:26 August, 2014 at 5:35 am:
“I’ve never met or heard anyone say “Scotland” like Darling does. It’s like he’s only ever seen the word written down but never heard it pronounced.”
The fact is there is a definite East/West split in Scottish pronunciations. For example – the word “Borders”, will be either – “Boarders” or “Bawrders”, as to how the West pronounces, “Corstorphine”, it doesn’t bear thinking about.
;-))
With the debate repeated later on BBC and shown also on STV and an opportunity to watch it again widely available through the net I would imagine a majority of Scottish voters will probably have seen all or part of it.
There is no doubt that Darling was trounced so what is also important is that newspapers and those correspondents who are trying to spin the opposite view are further destroying their own credibility (if that is possible in some cases).
The Sun however has no doubt whatsover.
What is equally telling is that the one trick pony is lame and the central theme of the Better Together campaign is destroyed.
Watching Wright Stuff just now – Dominic somebody talking about when he was a wee boy they were supporting Scotland at the World Cup and how they ( us ) don’t know what currency we will use .
What an arse!
@JLT says: 26 August, 2014 at 7:03 am:
“Salmond won it hands down. What is actually very annoying is that the media slightly acknowledge that Salmond won it, but seem to think it was a close call.”
Oh! Come on, JLT, what else did you expect?
There are some real idiots out there with as much logical thinking as a clipshear with a broken back. One this morning that had me rolling on the floor in helpless laughter said, (I paraphrase) :-
“He, (Salmond), said that Scotland doesn’t get the Government it voted for. I’ve been a Liberal Democrat voter for 60 odd years and never got the government I voted for even once”.
So how can any sane person fail to understand Salmond is speaking of a democratic majority of an entire nation and confuse that with the vote of an single individual.
Oops! Now I come to think about it, didn’t Darling do exactly the same thing?
Even if the 11,000 fictitious jobs at HM Clyde were real, you could pay workers off with £1 million each and still be better off.
11,000 x £1 million = £11 billion.
Annual cost of operating Trident = £2.5 billion
Payback = 4.4 years
The real number according to MOD FOI requests is actually 520.
So the more realistic payback would be
520 x £1 million = £0.52 billion / £2.5 billion = 10 weeks
Whichever number is the absolute correct one, Trident remains a wholly inefficient & cost prohibitive way to employ people.
@Fergus Green says: 26 August, 2014 at 8:11 am:
“Courier poll 84:16 for Salmond:
link to thecourier.co.uk
“
Err! Guys an Gals – I was over at that Courier poll and voted then noticed a second poll as to would the debate affect YES, NO and DK.
I voted it would help Y and discovered I was the only voter.
Get to it!
Potential unrest in the No Thankers camp:
Blair McDougall: “If the debate was about dignity then Alistair won it hands down”
Richard Baker: “Our man woz monstered!”
David Cameron: “Darlings are a roaster!”
Jackie Ballie: “I think we can all see Alistair won tonights debate with consumate ease tonight- a more one sided victory you’re ever likely to see (smiling)”
Independet Scotland can use the pound without a currency union, an idea so bad the Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group rejected it out of hand and it wasn’t included in the White Paper.
Well done!
I heard a bit of GMS this morning, some drivel from the papers about alpha chimps or something. I switched over to a music channel. Poor GMS really don’t like the outcome of the debate but there is nothing they can do about it. Not many listen to their witterings and a lot of people saw the debate. The consensus in the office today was a “good day” for Salmond and for those with a No lean also an expression of disappointment that Darling wasn’t on his game.
However, we need to carry this forward and maintain that buzz of success so that the last three weeks finish on a high. If the polls reach tipping point over the next week I expect we will see some angry reactions from Better Together and quite possibly a reluctance to publish any more polls. I wonder if we see a couple of newspapers moving over if they sense the momentum has become unstoppable.
Wings over Reality
Does it matter? There will be undoubtedly be a currency union.
Yes it was brilliant. But can I ask you all to keep pushing this very simple fact, existing oil/gas fields east of Shetland ARE IN THE NTH.SEA, finds west of Shetland including recent developments on Clair Ridge are in THE ATLANTIC MARGIN which includes the Lewis Basin, Minches, Argyle Coast, Clyde and Solway and out to the Scottish/Republic of Ireland economic boundary. Oil is not as Alistair Darling predicted going to run out by 2017, there is at least 50 years left in the Nth.Sea and probably twice as long in the Atlantic Margin. JUST KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT THIS PLEASE.
Auld Rock
”I’ve been a Liberal Democrat voter for 60 odd years and never got the government I voted for even once”.”
The Liberal Democrats haven’t been going for 60 years, have they.
Aren’t they the imalgamation of two parties Liberal ans SDP (Social Democrat Party). I may be being padantic.
@Les Wilson
Yes I agree with others here, the BBC are spinning for the no side.
_______________
They can spin it whatever way they want but the public are savvy enough to to separate the wheat from the chaff.
What they saw was a man struggling to keep himself from having a breakdown on television. If this was a boxing match it would have been stopped but they let Alex metaphorically keep punching him over and over. His cognitive dissonance was tearing him apart mentally knowing that Scotland can be a successful country but having to stick to a mantra I doubt even he believes.
Regardless of the oil which as Alex said is a blessing not a burden which any sane Government would gladly grasp with both hands Scotland can and will be a successful country financially and morally.
Westminster want to keep us in this unequal union bleeding us dry till all that is left is a husk. If there was no oil there would be no better together campaign, we would be out on our ears.
@Les Wilson
Yes I agree with others here, the BBC are spinning for the no side.
_______________
They can spin it whatever way they want but the public are savvy enough to to separate the wheat from the chaff.
What they saw was a man struggling to keep himself from having a breakdown on television. If this was a boxing match it would have been stopped but they let Alex metaphorically keep punching him over and over. His cognitive dissonance was tearing him apart mentally knowing that Scotland can be a successful country but having to stick to a mantra I doubt even he believes.
Regardless of the oil which as Alex said is a blessing not a burden which any sane Government would gladly grasp with both hands Scotland can and will be a successful country financially and morally.
Westminster want to keep us in this unequal union bleeding us dry till all that is left is a husk. If there was no oil there would be no better together campaign, we would be out on our ears.
Being out here in the middle of the North sea, coming up to the mess hall this morning it was as though the platform had been re-energised!!
Sorry for the double post but there seem to be gremlins at work here.
@Cameron
Thanks. Forgot to hit the publish button.
[…] I’m ever hopeful. I sincerely hope other parts of the UK follow suit and demand equality and fairness all over the British Isles. Scotland needs to be the first to jump ship. It’s scary, but it’s time. […]
Robert Peffers
LOL …no, I’m not surprised at all by the media. What I’m meaning is that even after such a trouncing, they immediately came out with ,‘Well that was close’.
If anything, the BBC embarrassed themselves by saying such a thing …RIGHT after the debate when folk were still watching the telly. Hell, even a few of the ‘No’s, let alone the DK’s, must have gone, ‘Whit !!!’
JLT
I think the ICM opinion poll blew that out of the water though. Any pretence that it was a draw is certainly not being echoed by the rank and file. No supporters over on CIF are angry (a couple have yet to reappear) and defiant but few are saying it was close.
I’m looking forward to Dateline Scotland’s take on this 😉
@Rev Stuart Campbell
I got the point that it would be the main naval base, however currently there are 19 Royal navy submarines and vessels ( and looking on the internet each vanguard class seems to have a roughly equal crew to a frigate) of which only 2 will be based in faslane according to the white paper by the SNP and only 4 patrol vessels, so where are the jobs going to come from? The base is already the major naval base in Scotland isn’t it? The numbers just don’t seem to add up. Equally there are 15000 mod servants in Scotland according to the yes campaign. Are all of those jobs going to be safe?
Here’s a fitting quote from “Father Ted”
“You flipping flipping flipper, oh it’s the knacker’s yard for you pal”
from link to dailyedge.ie
@Rev Stuart Campbell
No answer?